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JARL Ham Fair 2009
from
W3JK
on
September 8, 2009
View comments about this article!
I attended the
JARL Ham Fair 2009 in Tokyo
last month. I was able to meet a lot of friends that I talk to on the air
as well as connect with some hams that I have not seen for the last 15 years.
It was a very well organized ham fair and JARL treats their DX guest very
well. The JARL International section takes care of making sure that your experience
is a great one, which I did. Here are some pictures to share with you from
the 2nd biggest hamfest in the world.
The Ham Fair was held at the Tokyo
Big sight and it’s a great area with lots of attractions and shopping. Here are a few pictures from the Ham Fair that
I would like to share.
This
is the main entrance to the Ham Fair 2009.
All the main manufacturers such
as Yaesu, Kenwood and Icom
were present in full force.
Kenwood released their new HF transceiver,
the successor to TS-570. (not sure what the model #
is
Icom
has released their new HF/VHF/UHF transceiver, the IC9100
The
Ham Fair had high ceilings and LUSO was able to display their tower standing
up. I had the opportunity of going up their elevator/lift system that attaches
to the tower for the installers or the Ham operator to go up and down the
tower to install or maintain. No more climbing !!
JO1DZA is at the controls of the elevator/lift.
 
There were lots
of curious lookers at Tokyo
Hy-Power’s 5KW Solid state amplifier. No pricing
yet. 
The
D-Star booth was also very busy.
I visited the
Seanet booth and met Isamu-san JA0AD again in person after
nearly 15 years. It was a hair standing
re-union. 
Here is JE2EHP translating/interpreting at one of the sessions
Some more pictures of the other
exhibitors and the Flea-market.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N6JSX on September 8, 2009
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From these pictures - the event did not appear to be well attended or their layout has much aisle room.
How did 2009 compare to other years?
Is Japan seeing the slow decline and economy impacts to their event like the USA?
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K8QV on September 8, 2009
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Thanks for the great photo tour. Wish I could go.
Drawing the inevitable comparison to Dayton and other American hamfests, one thing stood out to me. The Japanese hams weren't wearing goofy looking vests, patches, hats and helmets with antennas on them!
Looks like a nice gathering of normal people, and it probably didn't smell bad either.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K0BG on September 8, 2009
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You have to actually see their convention center to grasp the size. It literally dwarfs every venue in the US, with perhaps a couple of exceptions (Moscone Center?).
Fact is, I don't know what the attendance figures were, but I suspect if the Dayton Hamvention was held there, the aisles would be all but clear! One has to remember too, there are more amateurs in Tokyo, than there are in the whole US!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9AMA on September 8, 2009
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"Drawing the inevitable comparison to Dayton and other American hamfests, one thing stood out to me. The Japanese hams weren't wearing goofy looking vests, patches, hats and helmets with antennas on them!"
Good point............
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N2RRA on September 8, 2009
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I attended Dayton this year 2009 for the first time and thought it was great. If you say there are more hams in Tokyo than in the U.S. and theirs dwarfs our ham fests that's gotta be out of control.
Would love one day to attend one of Asia's great ham fests, but thanks to W3JK we are able to get a little taste of it.
Thanks for the virtual tour and 73's!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W3JK on September 8, 2009
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The arena is a very big one. You could drive a truck through those aisles and they gave lots of elbow space to their exhibitors. They were very busy and some of the booths had big crowds such as Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood and Tokyo Hy-Power.
Access to the Ham Fair, is primarily through Mass transit and hence you cant count the cars in the parking lot. This is a very clean and well organized show. You dont need to hold your nose to go into the restrooms !!
I wouldnt really compare Dayton to the Tokyo Ham Fair, but in terms of size and crowd, it was comparable with Dayton, but Dayton is still #1. As correctly observed, the floor plan is lot more spacious in Japan, and also what caught my attention was that the vendors and Ham Clubs or associations were in equal numbers at the booths.
The Flea market was not as buzzing or big as Dayton but what I did see in the Flea market was some real hobby related items unlike Dayton, where you can see old vcr or dvd players to knock-off iPhones clones being sold.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WX4O on September 8, 2009
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I noticed that there aren't a bunch of 'obese' hams there either. We should think about that.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KI9A on September 8, 2009
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K0BG: Alan, I call B.S. on your statement about Tokyo having more hams than the whole US.
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=13872
ALL JA has under 500,000. The US has over 600,000.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KI9A on September 8, 2009
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by WX4O on September 8, 2009
I noticed that there aren't a bunch of 'obese' hams there either. We should think about that.
Why? Who gives a crap?
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W4VR on September 8, 2009
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Nothing new in terms of high-end transceivers. But, the Tokyo-hipower amp is worth a good look if you have deep pockets.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N2RRA on September 8, 2009
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"I noticed that there aren't a bunch of 'obese' hams there either. We should think about that."
LMAO!
You know your right! Maybe we should think about that. That's why some healthier countries live longer than most of the population here in the U.S.
Boy! Hope I don't wind up looking like most of you.
73's!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 8, 2009
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Wow nice pics!!! And not ONE fat, nasty, gross ham, with his belly hanging out over his belt weighted down by a half dozen HT rigs!! Most of, but not all American hams just dont care how they look, smell, or act in public. No wonder most non ham people and general public look down on us hams as being oddballs and social rejects.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N3OX on September 8, 2009
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"ALL JA has under 500,000. The US has over 600,000. "
That's station licenses.
There are 3.2 million operator licenses.
I don't really know what that means overall... but there are certainly not 600,000 active ham stations in the US ;-)
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K0BG on September 8, 2009
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Gee Chuck, this is a line from the site you quoted:
09 26,065 74,846 188,545 2,989,532 3,278,988
That's 2009, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class totals, plus the combined total for all classes.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WP3DZ on September 8, 2009
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I want this new KENWOOD radio when you exit the market, I like very much the kenwood´s !!!!
And Congratulations for this Ham in Tokyo, grettings from Puerto Rico Island.....
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WD8T on September 8, 2009
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"From these pictures - the event did not appear to be well attended or their layout has much aisle room. "
Transpose all those skinny folks into American hams at 300 lbs per unit and the aisles would be full!!
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W8KQE on September 8, 2009
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K9FON says:
"Wow nice pics!!! And not ONE fat, nasty, gross ham, with his belly hanging out over his belt weighted down by a half dozen HT rigs!! Most of, but not all American hams just dont care how they look, smell, or act in public. No wonder most non ham people and general public look down on us hams as being oddballs and social rejects."
LMAO!!!
BTW, anyone have any more info they can post on the upcoming new Kenwood rig? Can't tell too much from the photo, but it looks just like it's replacement, the 570.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W8KQE on September 8, 2009
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First closeup look at the new Kenwood HF/6 base station rig!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM96Wl7Alag&feature=related
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W6PMR on September 8, 2009
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Gee now, let's see here. A big, new, and well lit and air conditioned hall in a large, exciting city
with many other things to do than just the convention.
Nope, nothing at all like Dayton.
When is this hobby going to wake up and have the "national" get together in a great city like
Chicago, San Fransisco, New York, L.A., Vegas, and have it in a place that is not a dump.
Sorry Dayton, just the way I see it.
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KK8ZZ on September 8, 2009
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This missed the new Icom IC-9100 !! Check it out with Google.. the IC-74Pro is dead! This pone goes all the way to 1.2G (option) does satellite, WOW ! When does it come to the US???
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 8, 2009
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Great photos and writeup, thanks for sharing that!
BTW the Tokyo Big Sight convention center is 2.3 million square feet and is positively huge; however the amateur ham fair does not occupy all of it.
The Las Vegas Convention Center is 1.1 million square feet; the Moscone Center in San Francisco is 700,000 square feet.
Very few conventions occupy "all" of either of those. In fact, I actually can't think of any.
People attending CES or NAB at the LVCC might think those conventions occupy all of it, but they don't. I can't even imagine the convention that would occupy the entire 2.3 million S.F. of the Big Sight!
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 8, 2009
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Dayton, Ohio is a crap hole and i cant sugar coat that. But it is held each year in Dayton because it is "tradition"!!! Ham radio in Japan (and so many other countries for that matter) is very vibrant and active in stark contrast to ham radio in the USA were it seems hams are more wrapped up in the old ways and traditions of the past.. We need to wake up and take this hobby to the next level and quit pretending it is 1959. The fixation on the past is KILLING our hobby!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K5END on September 8, 2009
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Why are so many comments about Dayton?
This very nice article is about the event in Japan.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 8, 2009
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"Dayton" is our standard of comparison, and it's not a very good one!
As an American ham, I'm embarrassed about that.
"We" could have something as good as or better than the JARL Ham Fair, but ARRL is the only organization large enough to pull it off. DARA does the best they can with Dayton, but it's not a national organization and hasn't nearly the resources to pull it off well.
In the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas. Period. No place else can do it: It takes a large international airport; tens of thousands of nearby hotel rooms; a convention center large enough to accommodate any size crowd, and be modern, well equipped and nicely air conditioned with maybe 10,000 parking spaces minimum; and be accessible quickly and inexpensively via public transportation from anywhere in the city area.
No place else meets the criteria. Dayton's obviously very far from meeting any of the criteria.
But it's an expensive haul. The League could pull it off by having just ONE annual (national) convention, and eliminating all the local ones and cutting back in other areas. But I cannot envision any other American organization that could do it.
Well, I suppose we could ask Donald Trump. ;-)
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W3HF on September 8, 2009
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"09 26,065 74,846 188,545 2,989,532 3,278,988
That's 2009, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class totals, plus the combined total for all classes."
According to AH0A's web site, there's no good way to compare these to the US.
First of all, the operator licenses are lifetime. So ANYONE who EVER held a 4th class license is included. There's no expiration date that purges licensees.
Secondly, the operator licenses are double-counted, as licensees who upgrade retain their lower-level operator licenses.
As a result, the operator license totals inflate the number of actual licensed operators.
Perhaps a better statistic is the station licenses--there's only one per person. But those are lower than comparable US statistics because:
- They're only good for five years, so they "age out" expired licenses faster.
- They cost 3500 yen ($28 according to Joe) for each five-year renewal. So fewer licensees who have lost interest will renew, compared to US licensees who can renew for free.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 8, 2009
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Sadly, Steve is right!
So until someone or some organisation makes the big step and moves the hamvention we are stuck with having it in moldy, rundown, Dayton. Maybe at one time Dayton was a well to do city, but not anymore. It's the poster child of urban decay and the demise of our industrial base. Sad but true!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N2RRA on September 8, 2009
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"In the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas. Period. No place else can do it: It takes a large international airport; tens of thousands of nearby hotel rooms; a convention center large enough to accommodate any size crowd, and be modern, well equipped and nicely air conditioned with maybe 10,000 parking spaces minimum; and be accessible quickly and inexpensively via public transportation from anywhere in the city area."
This is so not true! In New York City there's the Jacob Javits Center.
The Javits is one of the most advanced Convention Centers in the nation and plenty of commendations. I'm sure the renting the space in Vegas is as costly has renting the space at the Javits. Obviously cost is probably the factor which means the reason why it's held in Dayton is not only a relationship with folks in Ohio but it's cheap.
73's!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB9YCJ on September 8, 2009
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Time to bring back SAROC Las Vegas? What do you guys think?
Ken
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K5END on September 9, 2009
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Steve,
It was a rhetorical question, already containing the implied point which is the basis of your elucidative comment.
Hams are keen to spot subtlety, I have noticed. Not even a sublime herd of enraged elephants would escape our notice.
:)
36 + 37,
K5END
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K5END on September 9, 2009
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Re: obese, smelly OM & Vegas.
In such a situation, I wonder if the hookers would protest, quit or go on strike?
No doubt, the rates would go up.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W9PMZ on September 9, 2009
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First, the Dayton Amateur Radio Association owns the trademarked name "Hamvention". So to have a Hamvention it has to be sponsored by DARA. And I don't think they are moving to a new city anytime soon.
Second, the reason why the Hamvention is what it is because it has been going on since 1953 (or something like that) and vendors attend because people show up to buy the accouderments that are offered for sale.
Third, I have no data but I suspect that Dayton is near a very large base of amatuers who can get there pretty easy.
If you want to have a similiar event you need to:
- guarentee a crowd of 15K+ over 3 days
- the guarenteed crowd in itself will bring the vendors
- be near a large population of amateurs (i.e. the crowd) that can get there easy (3 hours or less drive)
- have a location for the event that is affordable
- and finally have an organization that is willing to take the risk.
So belly ache all you want but DARA will have the lock until another organiztion bellies up to the table and takes their piece of the action...
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 9, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by N2RRA on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"In the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas. Period. No place else can do it: It takes a large international airport; tens of thousands of nearby hotel rooms; a convention center large enough to accommodate any size crowd, and be modern, well equipped and nicely air conditioned with maybe 10,000 parking spaces minimum; and be accessible quickly and inexpensively via public transportation from anywhere in the city area."
This is so not true! In New York City there's the Jacob Javits Center.<
::I've been to the Javits a few times, it's a nice place and it is pretty big, although not as big as the LV Convention Center, and not even as big as the Moscone Center in San Francisco. Certainly more than big enough for a ham convention that probably doesn't need more than 150,000 s.f. or so. However it lacks a lot of things for a ham radio convention:
-No on-site parking at all (that I know of)
-Any parking you find is fairly expensive
-While you're only a cab ride away from most of the NYC hotels, that cab ride can cost $20 and the midtown hotels are also quite pricey
In Vegas, the LVCC has 30,000 parking spaces on-site. Parking is very cheap. You can get there from the airport for $7 using one of the shuttles that runs every couple of minutes (distance from airport to convention center is 4 miles). You can get there from the big hotels on the strip via the LV Monorail which runs 24 hours a day and costs $6, and it's a 5-10 minute ride on the rail from anywhere the rail goes. You can also stay in a number of hotels that are walking distance to LVCC, such as the LV Hilton, the Renaissance, etc. These and others are literally adjacent to the convention center, very short walk.
LV also has over 1 million hotel rooms and many nice ones are available for $49-$79 a night.
I think it would be the best choice. Problem is, it would take a national organization to do it...
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K5END on September 9, 2009
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Steve makes a good point.
It's not just a matter of logistics.
To host a convention formerly known as "Hamvention" in some of the other venues would be prohibitively expensive.
I think the other poster is correct. If DARA was the first to use the term, "Hamvention," and can document it, they probably own it legally by common law, even in the absence of a registered trademark (which they very well may have anyway.)
I went to Dayton this year. It wasn't bad.
I went there to see the radios and stuff, not the walls and ceiling. The Contest University alone was enough to make the trip worth it.
If I want scenery, I'll go to Florence, Italy or Yellowstone.
Now back to your regularly scheduled--and very nice--Article about the Japanese convention. (We've covered everything there is to say about Dayton.)
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K5UJ on September 9, 2009
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<<<in the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas. Period. No place else can do it: It takes a large international airport; tens of thousands of nearby hotel rooms; a convention center large enough to accommodate any size crowd, and be modern, well equipped and nicely air conditioned with maybe 10,000 parking spaces minimum; and be accessible quickly and inexpensively via public transportation from anywhere in the city area. >>>
That was tried back in the 1970s. SAROC--seen as a sort of Hamvention-West.
It flopped and went away after a few years.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W3WN on September 9, 2009
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K9FON said:
--------------------------------------------------
Dayton, Ohio is a crap hole and i cant sugar coat that. But it is held each year in Dayton because it is "tradition"!!! Ham radio in Japan (and so many other countries for that matter) is very vibrant and active in stark contrast to ham radio in the USA were it seems hams are more wrapped up in the old ways and traditions of the past.. We need to wake up and take this hobby to the next level and quit pretending it is 1959. The fixation on the past is KILLING our hobby!
--------------------------------------------------
No argument that the HARA Arena (and it's many additions) is a dump, and that parking lot has seen better days & should have been repaved years ago.
You have two choices:
1. Convince the Dayton ARA to move Hamvention to another venue, once their contract with HARA is up
2. Convince someone to throw a similar exposition in a more suitable venue, and get all of the manufacturers and vendors to go to it, and so on and so forth... or if you can't convince someone else, do it yourself.
It's that simple.
(Granted, the devil IS in the details, but moving our de facto national convention out of Dayton comes down to those two simple choices)
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 9, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by K5UJ on September 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
That was tried back in the 1970s. SAROC--seen as a sort of Hamvention-West.
It flopped and went away after a few years.<
I was at two of the SAROCs (Sahara Amateur Radio Operators Convention) and stayed at the Sahara for both of them, in '70 and '71. I think it started in '67 IIRC and ran into the mid-70s.
It didn't "flop" at all -- in fact, it was hugely successful. In '71 I think over 5,000 hams attended. Considering it was privately organized and sponsored by exactly one guy, that's pretty good. As far as I know, the only reason the show did not continue and grow is the organizer (can't remember his call) had health problems and just couldn't do it anymore.
That's the problem with having just one person or a small group running something like this. It takes a national organization -- like JARL! Or here in the States, ARRL.
Vegas today is much more of a "convention city of America" than it was in the early 70s. They bend over backwards to host every convention possible, which is why 90% of the big ones are there. It's also one of the only places in the world where, when 150,000 or 200,000 people show up for a convention, that doesn't even impact the city in any way: Traffic's about the same, you can still get a fine hotel room, no problem making dinner reservations, etc. They're so used to it, an extra couple of hundred thousand people doesn't change anything. Something to be said for that.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WI7B on September 9, 2009
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Wait! I saw one overweight guy in the second photo in front of the Yaesu booth.
On top of having the Ham Fair in Tokyo, Japanese hams have Akihabara ("Electric City") right down the street where they can buy ANY electronic component manufacturer!
What I wouldn't give...
73,
---* Ken
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by G3LBS on September 9, 2009
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We need to use our imagination - deodorant stand at the entrance door, belly-dancing by obese hams, and pole dancers to advertise the verticals.
W2/G3LBS
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KG4YVA on September 9, 2009
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Well all hamfest are going to die. Shelby was really nice this year. A lot of people showed up, but no one was spending any money. The dealers have to make money just to get there much less buy stock. If you do not go and spend money then the dealers will find another show to go to. And YES. Dayton is a rat hole. That show needs to be moved. If you want a really nice show to go to. Attend the Orlando, FL show or Shelby, NC shows. Or do both. JA
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 9, 2009
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>JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by KG4YVA on September 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well all hamfest are going to die.<
You might be right, but I hope not.
As I've been touting, there isn't a single ham radio club in the U.S. big enough to really pull off an event like JARL does. The only organization with the membership and funds to do it is ARRL, and as far as I know, they've never tried. The "National Convention" has never been a "Hamvention" like Dayton, although it has coincided with and been located at Dayton. The Division conventions and sections events and everything else that goes on evidently uses up the budget and the energy that might otherwise go into an annual major blowout.
I've been a League member for over 40 years (44 I think) and am a "Diamond Club" member (which means I pay more to get a nifty pin), and so are a lot of others. We deserve a JARL-like national, annual event.
League members, write your Congressmen (oops, I mean your Section Managers, and Division Directors, and anyone else you can think of)! We want a world-class national, annual "Hamvention!"
Not in Dayton.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N9WW on September 9, 2009
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"BTW the Tokyo Big Sight convention center is 2.3 million square feet and is positively huge; however the amateur ham fair does not occupy all of it.
The Las Vegas Convention Center is 1.1 million square feet; the Moscone Center in San Francisco is 700,000 square feet."
And McCormick Place in downtown Chicago is just shy of 2.7 million sq/ft.
Now that would be a hamfest. Losts of room for the stink to disperse
73,
Jim N9WW
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 9, 2009
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Nothing like a bunch of smelly, gross hams at a large hamfest to stink up the place.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KC9AAE on September 9, 2009
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Here is a link to a video from the convention, specifically the Icom booth.
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/august2009/ic_9100_at_tokyo_ham_fair.htm
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by PY2DM on September 10, 2009
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Thank you to share the JARL Ham Fair 2009.
Almost every people is talking about Dayton and sure it is the largest but much more than JARL Ham Fair we need to remember that in Germany every year DARC promote the Ham Fair Europe and this year the gathering was larger than Dayton this year.
Look to DARC Ham Fair it is growing very fast in a very pleasent place.
PY2DM
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N9XEQ on September 10, 2009
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I think the thing that stood out to me the most is how new the building looks. It sure makes Hara Arena look just what it is.Old , tired and ready to be torn down. I thought the first time I went to Dayton how sad it was that the premier Amateur Radio event needed a new home, but now I hope that the sponsoring club can see this moved to that end. Don't get me wrong I have mixed feelings about changes at Dayton but maybe it is time.
As for JARL Ham Fair I do't really see anything I can't wait till Dayton for.
Ron
N9XEQ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W3WN on September 10, 2009
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Personally, had I had the money (or access to enough of it) and authority to do it, I would have arranged for a "new" HARA Arena to be built across the street from the old one (especially during that period of time that the car dealership directly across the street was closed), then torn down the old facility and repaved it for parking, or built a small hotel there, or something else.
But, that's not going to happen now, is it?
HARA is a dump. It's worn out, shabby, in need of paint, better ventillation, new plumbing, level floors, a better food court... to say nothing of the potholes in the parking lot along side the weeds that grow where the asphalt is gone...
But so long as DARA chooses that location for Hamvention (and yes, they have trademarked the word), we have to put up with.
If memory serves, DARA did look into alternatives. I don't believe they found anything in the immediate Dayton area that they felt would be suitable (and if you disagree, tell them, not me). So unless you can convince them to move, or to permit someone else to run the event elsewhere on their behalf [good luck, you'll need it]... if you want a national convention somewhere else, you're going to have to find a site and figure out how to put it on all on your own.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 10, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W3WN on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
if you want a national convention somewhere else, you're going to have to find a site and figure out how to put it on all on your own.<
::Which is why I've been proposing we urge the ARRL to do it. Nobody else possibly could.
JARL is Japan's equivalent organization, and they've done a great job.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 10, 2009
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The building the JARL is held in looks somewhat like the building that the Fort Wayne Hamfest is held in. Modern, clean, very well lit, with modern restrooms, and a nice concession area. Another local ham swap I go ot is the Marshall Mi, ham swap. That particular ham swap is held inside the Marshall High School. IMHO, they really need to move that ham swap to another area as the school is old, run down, small, and cramped. It is very hard to move around inside the hallways when there are a hundred hams stopping to look and move around.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W3WN on September 11, 2009
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Steve,
I agree that the ARRL has the resources (both in terms of people, experience, and finances) to put on a true National convention.
And one can argue that perhaps they should... which is something I will talk with my Division Director about the next time I see him, possibly at the Butler (PA) hamfest this Sunday if he's there.
But let's be realistic. If the ARRL ever announced that they would undertake such an endeavour, you and I and many others know that the anti-ARRL crowd would immediately denounce them for trying to "take over" Hamvention from DARA, and so on and so forth. So they're pretty much in a no-win scenario on this one.
That being said... it's very easy for someone who's never been involved in an event like this, or even an event like a local club's small hamfest, to sit back and say "You should do this, you need to do that." (Which is why I may gripe about the condition of the Hara Arena property, but with the full understanding that THAT is not within the control of the Dayton ARA). I know how challenging the logistics are for my small club to put on our annual small hamfest, so I can just imagine what happens when you extrapolate upwards.
So I guess I'm politely trying to say to those who want someone ELSE to put on a National Convention or equivalent for THEM to attend... "if you think it's that easy, YOU try to do it"
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 11, 2009
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As a sidenote; i noticed in the pictures there are actually YOUNGER people that are in the crowd instead of the usual sea of grey we see so common in the states.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 11, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W3WN on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Steve,
I agree that the ARRL has the resources (both in terms of people, experience, and finances) to put on a true National convention.
And one can argue that perhaps they should... which is something I will talk with my Division Director about the next time I see him, possibly at the Butler (PA) hamfest this Sunday if he's there.<
::That's a great start. I hope others (including me!) will do the same.
>But let's be realistic. If the ARRL ever announced that they would undertake such an endeavour, you and I and many others know that the anti-ARRL crowd would immediately denounce them for trying to "take over" Hamvention from DARA, and so on and so forth. So they're pretty much in a no-win scenario on this one.<
::I don't think so. ARRL is a whole lot larger than DARA and has members all over US/Canada and some abroad as well. If I had the choice, ARRL would plan/organize/sponsor and I'd ask DARA for assistance, to join the effort rather than compete with it. Frankly, although Dayton has a long history (I've been there 22 times myself over the past 44 years), it's not in a convenient place, has no international airport, often has lousy weather (I've seen 90 degree blazing heat, high humidity, rain, gray clouds, very cold WX and everything between over the years), lacks sufficient housing (hotel rooms), and lots of other problems. It was a good run, but there are far better places to hold a "world class national event."
>That being said... it's very easy for someone who's never been involved in an event like this, or even an event like a local club's small hamfest, to sit back and say "You should do this, you need to do that." (Which is why I may gripe about the condition of the Hara Arena property, but with the full understanding that THAT is not within the control of the Dayton ARA). I know how challenging the logistics are for my small club to put on our annual small hamfest, so I can just imagine what happens when you extrapolate upwards.<
::For sure. But an organization the size of the League can pull it off. Might have to bring in a few ringers with substantial experience organizing major events. But for years they have had a "National Convention," as well as many local (Division) ones. If one pooled all those resources into just one annual event, it likely wouldn't take any more effort than is already being expended; and the advantage of "one" is that it could be "world class," with huge international attendance. Ticket sales would likely cover the cost of the entire event (e.g., 50,000 attendees at $30 each for a 2-3 day event = $1.5M).
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N7MYW on September 11, 2009
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I agree with this. I don't go to Dayton due to the usual suspects,those being distance,rooms,etc.And the comments about the obese,smelly hams in the US was a bit unjustified in most senses but I have to admit that I do see a lot of that at ham fests.
The Japanese hamfest did look most appealing. The absence of the usual US ham clothing,hats with antennas,call sign shirts and baseball caps was refreshing.
I REALLY want a better look at those new rigs!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N7MYW on September 11, 2009
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Also....do you notice how much better dressed the Japanese and European hams are? Why is that? Have Americans in general really lost that sense of style and manners? Everywhere I go I see pajamas,sweatpants,unkempt and dirty clothes,etc. Yet when one travels to Europe and Japan the people dress so much better.
I agree that Las Vegas or an East coast city would be good for a major convention. Vegas can pull, it off with no problem.And it has the distraction and fun value that would attract not only the ham but the rest of the family as well. Now if the Vegas city council could get rid of the stupid and silly men handing out hooker cards along the strip then I would go back. I cannot imagine anyone taking their children to Vegas the way it is now.
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Nasty Hams
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by WB4M on September 11, 2009
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"And not ONE fat, nasty, gross ham, with his belly hanging out over his belt weighted down by a half dozen HT rigs!! "
That's because they were all headed to the Shelby, NC hamfest, lol.
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RE: Nasty Hams
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by W9PMZ on September 11, 2009
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"Ticket sales would likely cover the cost of the entire event (e.g., 50,000 attendees at $30 each for a 2-3 day event = $1.5M)."
Where is the US are you going to get attendance on that order???
What was Dayton's peak in the 90s, 30K???
This is the intrinsic problem with Las Vegas. How many hams are local to Las Vegas within 150 miles???
I doubt if the airlines could handle the additional traffic; let alone the average ham willing to plunk down bucks for an airline ticket.
If you want 50K attendees, you probably need to draw a circle about a geographic area, 3 to 5 hours drive, that encompasses 200K hams if you want an attendance of 50K.
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KC8RWR on September 11, 2009
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First, I'd like to thank the author of the original article for the nice pictures! That's the real topic right? JARL not ARRL?
Now I'll join the conversation about hamfests in the US.
WB2WIK< "In the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas."
N2RAA< "This is so not true! In New York City there's the Jacob Javits Center."
Ok, Dayton is biggest in the US. There are a few other big ones though http://www.eham.net/forums/hamfests/320 and some pretty decent little ones all over the place.
From my QTH in Toledo, OH I can drive to Dayton. My first thought of a big show in Vegas or NewYork was that the big show would leave Dayton and I would need a plane ticket plus vacation time to attend. That's selfish I know, many of you probably DID buy plane tickets and use vacation time just to get to Hara.
But, if there was something bigger, cleaner in a higher profile city like Vegas or NY what would happen to the rest of our local Hamfests? Personally I would like them all to be the best hamfest they reasonably can and give as many of us as possible a nice local show to attend. The US has a much larger area than Japan and it would not be as easy to centralize on one city.
As a side note, our hamclub here in Toledo, TMRA just obtained a new location for our hamfest as the old one is being sold. While it isn't going to rival Dayton or the JARL Ham Fair I think it will be an improvement and am excited. How much better is a hamfest you can walk or ride a bike to than one 1000 miles away?
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KC8RWR on September 11, 2009
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WB2WIK< " If I had the choice, ARRL would plan/organize/sponsor and I'd ask DARA for assistance, to join the effort rather than compete with it"
Would DARA really want to do that? Pretty much help obsolete themselves? Or would this be an ARRL sponsored supersized Hamvention still held in Dayton. I can't imagine that. To put it in nice terms, I'm not sure the city of Dayton is capable of supporting such a thing.
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RE: Nasty Hams
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by WB2WIK on September 11, 2009
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>RE: Nasty Hams Reply
by W9PMZ on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Ticket sales would likely cover the cost of the entire event (e.g., 50,000 attendees at $30 each for a 2-3 day event = $1.5M)."
Where is the US are you going to get attendance on that order???<
::Note I was careful to draw attention to the potential international attendance. About 10% of the Dayton attendance is international now, and always has been (EU/JA etc). Held in a far better venue with an *international airport* (which Dayton doesn't have), it could be 50%. Maybe more. If you work DX on the air, especially Europeans and JAs, take a moment to ask this question, "Have you been to Las Vegas?" I'll bet 9 out of 10 will say, "Sure I have...we stayed at..." Many have been there several times. I can't remember the last time I worked a JA who told me he has *not* been to Las Vegas. They all go. They don't all go to Dayton, and if it weren't for the long-running Hamvention, most would have never heard of Dayton.
>This is the intrinsic problem with Las Vegas. How many hams are local to Las Vegas within 150 miles???<
::Really doesn't matter. For one thing, hams from San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, San Francisco, Phoenix are all within a fairly short driving distance. The amateur population of these five metro areas greatly exceeds the amateur population within 150 miles of Dayton...probably even within 300 miles of Dayton. L.A. has more hams than any city on our continent, and we all routinely drive to Vegas -- almost everyone does. It's only a 4-hour drive.
>I doubt if the airlines could handle the additional traffic; let alone the average ham willing to plunk down bucks for an airline ticket.<
::The airlines wouldn't even notice another 50,000 people coming into Vegas. Trust me. 50K is very small potatoes for a Vegas convention; conventions like CES draw 350,000. NAB draws over 100K. Comdex, in its heyday (probably 1998 or so) used to draw 300K. There are rodeo shows, all sorts of shows that draw between a quarter and half million people. There are conventions in Vegas 52 weeks a year, often 5-6 per week (some at LVCC, some at the Sands EXPO center, some at the other convention centers -- they're always busy). Also there are more "cheap" flights to Vegas than any other city in the United States, because they are *heavily* subsidized by the gaming industry (casinos and casino resort hotels) which keeps the rates very, very low.
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W6PMR on September 11, 2009
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Wow! Look what I started, Oh well. Steve is 100% correct, Vegas has EVERYTHING needed for a first class
"National" Ham convention.
But so does Chicago! or any one of a dozen cities in
the midwest. Living on the west coast I would LOVE Vegas but I understand that many might not.
The bottom line here fellow Ham's is that Dayton
and and venue it's in/at STINK!!!
If we had a clean, modern, air conditioned arena with
plenty of parking, motel/hotel rooms and an international airport we would have a much larger attendance, and who knows, maybe even attract new people into the hobby if our "National" convention
looked and acted professional. Paul.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 11, 2009
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It's not just HARA Arena that's a dump. To me, that's just a little part of the problem.
The real problem is Dayton is not very accessible to about 90% of the people who would like to attend. International visitors have to layover at at least one international airport on the way. I can't even fly there "direct" from Los Angeles, it takes a stop and a vehicle change.
Because of that, accessing Dayton from most of the world is quite expensive and a bit frustrating.
Once there, there aren't enough hotel rooms to hold a lot of people. I've had to stay in Columbus or other places just to even "find" a room, and that's a very inconvenient commute.
Also once there, there are maybe a dozen decent restaurants in the whole city. I've been to all of them. Parking at HARA is horrible. One year when it rained a lot, my rental car got stuck in the mud and I had to call for a "tow" just to get it out.
It's not a world-class city, and hasn't a world-class airport; there are only two good hotels and the rest are pretty bad.
Vegas, on the other hand, wouldn't even notice 50K people coming to town; with 1.2 million hotel rooms and the average hotel having more than 2000 rooms, and an average of 25 conventions per month being held there, a MAJOR "Hamvention" would just be another one. And visitors from Sidney, Tokyo, London, Paris, Frankfurt and Johannesburg can fly straight in. Ask them how they do, trying to get to Dayton.
There are more than 20,000 licensed taxis in Las Vegas. But if you stay on the strip, you don't even need one: Just walk to the nearest monorail station, plunk down $6 and ride the monorail to the convention center. Takes 5 minutes.
It's the place to have a major convention. The airport is 4 miles from the convention center, and there are a dozen convention centers (all within 4 miles). Even a "smaller" convention center in Vegas, such as the one in the L.V. Hilton, can accommodate 20,000 people or so, to get a start on it. The LVCC can accommodate 400,000 people. It has 200 bathrooms, 50 food venues and over 100 meeting rooms. They're all modern, clean, and air conditioned.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 11, 2009
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And what is there to see in Dayton that is of interest besides Patterson Air Force Base?
I have been through Dayton a few times and not only is Hara a dump but the whole town is!!! Id be 100% behind moving the hamvention to Las Vegas!!!
Anything is better than dumpy Dayton.
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W2CDO on September 11, 2009
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Another point that was made about Vegas is that it has entertainment value for family/camp followers, which makes the sell to the XYL and kids SO much easier. Vegas is a real vacation destination, so the ham convention could be just one part of a family vacation for the hams. Yeah, the hooker salesmen are pretty offensive, but think of them as street theater. Sadly, they see worse on TV and the Internet.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KF4HR on September 12, 2009
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Thanks for the tour. Good to see Kenwood is coming out with a new HF transceiver. I starting to wonder if they were planning to throw in the towel.
KF4HR
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 12, 2009
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>JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W2CDO on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Another point that was made about Vegas is that it has entertainment value for family/camp followers, which makes the sell to the XYL and kids SO much easier. Vegas is a real vacation destination, so the ham convention could be just one part of a family vacation for the hams. Yeah, the hooker salesmen are pretty offensive, but think of them as street theater. Sadly, they see worse on TV and the Internet.<
::It's true it's a good family destination in all respects. The XYLs love the shopping and shows, kids love the rides and water parks, and 95% of the evening stage entertainment is very much "family" oriented. The guys handing out the "hooker cards" on the streets are monitored closely. If you walk right past them, they can't bother you. They're not allowed to touch anyone or impede normal sidewalk traffic. If they do, you can report them and the cops show up in about five seconds to haul them away.
You might have noticed that you can't drive more than a couple of blocks without spotting a police cruiser, they're everywhere.
WB2WIK/6
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W8KQE on September 12, 2009
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The 'I-X Center' in Cleveland (next to NASA Glenn Research Center) would be IDEAL for 'Hamvention' in the future! I've been to the 'Jacob Javits Center' in NYC many times, and although it is modern and roomy with a good location on the Westside, having to deal with NYC traffic and parking hassles (not to mention expensive lodging) would be prohibitive for many Hams. At least the 'I-X Center' is expansive with a HUGE parking lot, and it is located right next to Hopkins International Airport!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB9NJB on September 12, 2009
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N2RRA,
Does your call stand for "really really asinine"? I hope so. It would put your statement about life span in context. 73
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by N7UQA on September 12, 2009
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K9FON - said.."Wow nice pics!!! And not ONE fat, nasty, gross ham, with his belly hanging out over his belt weighted down by a half dozen HT rigs!! Most of, but not all American hams just dont care how they look, smell, or act in public. No wonder most non ham people and general public look down on us hams as being oddballs and social rejects."
Oh so true, I get really dis heartened when the HAMs I see appear to have been wearing the same clothes for MONTHS, have extreme BO and lack any hygiene skills. It doesn't help when food vendors serve the same old FATTENING fair of doughnuts in the morning, hot dogs, hamburgers and chips for lunch. And most worse of all, 70-80+ year olds who crap their pants.
Oh, and let's not forget all the CB radios, CB amps, old stereo gear, CFL vendors, beat up old useless gear, test equipment from the 60's and the gear that did not sell the first 10 previous hamfests. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the same equipment at a vendors table with the same or higher price year after year. It was just as worthless then and even MORE worthless now.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 12, 2009
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>JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W8KQE on September 12, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The 'I-X Center' in Cleveland (next to NASA Glenn Research Center) would be IDEAL for 'Hamvention' in the future! I've been to the 'Jacob Javits Center' in NYC many times, and although it is modern and roomy with a good location on the Westside, having to deal with NYC traffic and parking hassles (not to mention expensive lodging) would be prohibitive for many Hams. At least the 'I-X Center' is expansive with a HUGE parking lot, and it is located right next to Hopkins International Airport!<
The problem is still one of not sufficient available hotel rooms. Can't compare Cleveland's 11,000 hotel rooms to Las Vegas' 1.2 million hotel rooms. That's one of the big problems with Dayton: If 30,000 visitors invade the place, they run out of rooms quickly, leaving visitors to stay outside of town.
It's also tough to compare air fares. Because air travel in and out of Vegas is so well subsidized by the gaming industry, flights from all over the world are very inexpensive.
I don't live in Las Vegas, but having attended dozens of conventions there, must say it is truly the "convention city" of America -- by a wide margin.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 12, 2009
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Yes, the JA hams are in better shape and have better etique. They eat more fish and vegetables. I have been to North EAST ASIA many times. Very little obesity.
One thing DAYTON seems to have the JARL beat is the flea market. Is it just the Yacomwood and other JA corps showing off the next radio that claims to be far superior to last years?
I am sure everything else is better. Cleaner bathrooms. Heck, cannot do much with a defacto portosan.
Bet the food is better. None of those BARF DOGS or CRAP worsts that are price fixed at $5.00. One dude was sick for 5 days.
Speak for yourselfs about grimmy fat mustard stained hams. I weigh in at 160lbs. Besides Fat or obese is not used in medical/scientific fields these days.
The new PC word is adiposely disproportionate. Adipose tissue is fat tissue.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 13, 2009
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I stay away as far as i can from that nasty hamfest food. Its not fit to feed my dog!!! I usually take a backpack to the hamfest that has stuff like peanuts, crakers, bottled water, and other snack stuff to munch on then later on, I eat REAL food at Texas Roadhouse!!!:^D
As far as being fit, well i weigh in at 175 lbs, run and work out when I can, and i seem to be (well at least to most woman i know) fairly attractive. I guess im not your average ham! Id LOVE to go to the JARL Ham Fair just ONCE just to see how it is. Heck, id love to go to Japan just one in my life! The Asian people put us to shame in terms of general health and well being. We Americans are so used to overindulgance that its sickeing. No wonder we are so overweight. Everywere you go there are extra large this and extra large that. Thank you MC Dee's for making America what it is now.................
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 13, 2009
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k9FON, If you go to Icomsuwood land. (Japan).
Make sure you check out Pattaya Beach Thailand.
It is an adult disneyland.
Do not believe the stupid hype about how all the woman are underage prostitutes. Just lots of 25-35 year old slim beautifull woman. Americans are well liked. They eat very spicy, but healthy food
The Mikey D's have heathy alternatives. You will freak out when you see a plastic Ronald Mcdonald bowing or "giving the wai". I had 2 pieces of boneless fried chicken, vegetable sticky rice(no french fries and a coke for 89cents!!!!
The average Thai makes $3000/year. So the Thai woman love us "FELOANGS"(FOREINER, origally a bad word for a frenchman. Remember the French invaded Indo-china first.
They are much happier than we are. It is 90 degrees F for 9 months. Our summer is their rainy or monsoon season. It is a 20 hour flight from LAX or NYC's Kennedy.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 13, 2009
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There are a lot of other contries that are much happer than we are. We americans are a "mile a minute, gotta-have-it-right-now-cant-wait, instant gratification" society so thats one reason why our country has so much more stress than the rest of the world. Sad but true............
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K6CRC on September 13, 2009
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Nice story. Tokyo is an amazing place.
I have been to MANY conventions in Las Vegas, as well as NYC, Moscone, Chicago, and about a dozen other cities. NAB and the CES of 10-20 years ago were about the biggest. Yet, Vegas absorbs them all. It is the only place where the union guys are competent and the administration is efficient.
It would be an ideal setting for a ham convention.
The location of our national convention is a black mark for the hobby.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W9PMZ on September 14, 2009
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"The average Thai makes $3000/year. So the Thai woman love us "FELOANGS"(FOREINER, origally a bad word for a frenchman. Remember the French invaded Indo-china first.
They are much happier than we are"
The word is "farung".
Thailand is, as it say in immigration, "welcome to the land of smile"; it truly is :).
Thailand is over 90% Buddahist, I believe that this accounts for their optimistic and sometimes fatalistic view of life.
Go there, it's cheap, the people and genuinely nice towards farungs.
Back to Las Vegas, I still find it hard to believe that airlines would or could subsidize 30K people to fly to Las Vegas over a weekend. Run the numbers, if 30K people fly there, then they have to also leave. If the average load on an aircraft is 100 people, that means you have to add about 600 flights over 3 or 4 days. With the congestion at most airports, I would venture to say that there are not enough landing and takeoff slots.
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 14, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W9PMZ on September 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Back to Las Vegas, I still find it hard to believe that airlines would or could subsidize 30K people to fly to Las Vegas over a weekend.<
::No, that's not what I said or inferred (I don't think). They subsidize every single airfare, on all flights, from anywhere, all year long. It has nothing to do with a ham radio convention. You can fly to Vegas for lower cost than you can to other American cities, from almost anywhere (Tokyo, Sydney, Caracas, Brasilia, even London, Paris, Frankfurt -- just about anywhere) because of the subsidies. Simple as that. And people (including hams) can drive there easily and quickly from San Diego, Los Angeles, Fresno, San Jose, San Francisco, Phoenix, etc. From here in L.A. it's a 4 to 4-1/2 hour drive, people do it every week. But if we want to fly it, there are $39 flights available.
>Run the numbers, if 30K people fly there, then they have to also leave. If the average load on an aircraft is 100 people,<
No extra flights of any kind are required. The average commercial aircraft seats 270 passengers; the little Southwest Airlines 737s seat about 120; but 747s seat 400; A300s = 260; A330s = 300; 767s = 255; 757s = 182; 777s = 385, etc. Depends on exact model and seating plan, but "on average," they're about 270 per flight. There are over 400 flights per day already going there = 108K a day. They're not all filled.
I've attended the largest conventions in Vegas where attendance was over 200K people, and no "extra" flights of any sort were scheduled for these; just people booked in advance and got seats on the regularly scheduled flights. They're very prepared for it.
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W9PMZ on September 14, 2009
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Steve - I still don't think that you are being realistic about seats on an airplane.
1. I fly 10+ times a year to and from Asia.
2. Hams are cheap, they are not going to pay the exta fees for first class or premium economy.
I am a 1K member of United frequent flier program, so let's look at Uniteds load capacity per plane. Please see:
http://seatexpert.com/browse_by_airline.php
777 - 223 economy seats
767 - 154 economy seats
757 - 108 economy seats
747 - not listed in use (only international)
737 - on average in-series 70 economy seats
A320 - 90 economy seats
A300 - 90 economy seats
A319 - 72 economy seats
regional seats - on average seats
So your view of seats is in-correct; at least for United Airlines.
I seriously doubt that the airlines still can accomodate an additional 30K hams on the planes going to a destination that people are already dying to go to.
Again, if you want a successful Hamvention like convention with an attendance of 50K hams; draw a circle, 3 hours drive, that encompasses 200K hams (and this supposes a 25% attendance rate).
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 14, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W9PMZ on September 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
777 - 223 economy seats< Total capacity per Boeing is 385. How they divvy that up between economy, business and first class is up to the airline;
>767 - 154 economy seats< Per Boeing, it's 255. Again, the division is per airline.
>757 - 108 economy seats< Per Boeing, it's 182.
>747 - not listed in use (only international)< Per Boeing, it averages 400. Many international flights, and I emphasize this because it's very important to attract the DX for a successful convention, use these.
>737 - on average in-series 70 economy seats< Per Boeing, it averages 120. Southwest Airlines, which has more 737s in service than anyone and has dozens of flights daily to LAS, is all "coach" on all flights, so they typically carry 120 per flight.
>A320 - 90 economy seats< Per Airbus, it's 156.
>A300 - 90 economy seats< Per Airbus, it's 260.
>A319 - 72 economy seats< Per Airbus, it's 124.
Remember some airlines (especially the discount ones) don't segregate, and all seats are "coach."
I'm also a very frequent traveler, about 52 round trips annually.
I don't believe you need to draw a "local" crowd for a national convention, and surely not for an international one. The NAB convention in April (National Association of Broadcasters) draws 100K attendees for four days, and 50% of the visitors are from abroad, per their statistics.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W9PMZ on September 14, 2009
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"How they divvy that up between economy, business and first class is up to the airline"
This is the point, airlines don't divy the aircraft per the ultimate load carrying capacity of the aircraft. Look at the web site, I normally only fly on United so I can't speak for the other carriers.
Ultimately this all moot; since no organization will take up this cause; unless, maybe we could somehow roll this into the porkulus bill, afterall we are all hams...
73
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 14, 2009
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Carl,
Well, I hate to admit it, but you're probably very right about that. It likely won't happen. But I'd at least contact my Section Manager and Division Director, and maybe write HQ executive staff as well, to propose the idea of a National Convention similar to what JARL does. I cannot imagine anyone else could pull this off.
BTW, I didn't go for the smaller circle, but if you draw a 500 mile circle around Vegas or Dayton, there's more hams in the 500 mile circle around Vegas: 126,845 vs. 98,773 per the ULS statistics updated 09/13/09.
That California alone has 96,433 hams, almost all of whom are within 500 miles, helps a lot ;-)
I almost never fly United. Domestically I fly mostly Southwest, US Air, Jet Blue, a bit of Delta, a bit of AA. Internationally I use almost always the foreign airlines based wherever I'm going! Better food, better service. Especially with our annual trip to the Philippines...we get real tablecloths and real food, real eating utensils, etc. flying the foreign lines -- even in coach.
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 14, 2009
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I do think airfair is going down soon. Its the darn Jet-A. Fuel. It is very hard to make Jet-A out of biofuels. JetA is 90% Kerosine. Anybody got a cheap way to make it out of garbage. Methane is easy.
The security after 9/11 is another bummer factor. I had mt pocket picked after the 3erd time they made us all remove our shoes.
I book early to fly premium economy.It is only 10-15% more than coach. Most of the time I can get the bump up to Business Class. I use my frequent flyer miles to get bump ups. Getting a bump up from coach to premium economy is very hard. Premium economy has not much more seats than Business.
Business class can be very empty during certain times and flights. This is easy to understand. A Business class seat will go for double or triple the rate of premium econony.
I am not a man of big luxury. For a flight to Dayton or Vegas, less than 4 hours goes by quick. On a 16-24 hour flight, economy will drive you crazy! If you have eriferal artery disease or traveling with toddlers, stay home or pay $6000 for Business class.
Very true Steve that airlines from certain nations make couch seem decent. Full meals, and nicer service.
Each seat has a PERsONAL tv with over 100 channels. Thats Thai air anyway.
Perhaps when te US gets really involved in rejecting blood money tainted terrorist sympathiser
nation oil, a new Jet engine that burns bio-fuels will be around. Fuel is the number one cost in avaiation.
Be nice if flying to Dayton, Vegas, or NYC gets to be a viable choice.
Because of rip off oil prices, the new hyposonic airbus will not have commercial flights soon. It sets over 300 and can do mach6(4000mph) NYC to Tokyo..5 hours tops. Heck, pack your own lunch!
Be real nice if a good number of us could meet up at some decent Hamfest. At Dayton and its little cousin Timonium, we would always tailgate BBQ some great healthy food. A few hamfests banned individual grills. That is monopolistic......no?????? That and the schlock as well as great amount of PC'S, BRICKA-BRACK ,BRAKAH-BRICKS, AND PET TURTLES turned me off Hamfesting. The air fair too.
It can cost the same to go from NYC to LAX as it does to go to Asia. I pay $1500 round trip to Thailand.
No more direct flight from Kennedy to Bangkok either. When I go next month, it well be NYC to Tokyo, wait.....Then another 10 hours to Pattaya Beaches smaller airport(I should say air-strip) 24 hour flight time total.
I do gain a day by flying. I leave at Anytime and arrive 24 hours later, however, it seems I go back in time. HI-HI You cross the "Dateline" Really!!!!
Perhaps, a group of us can buy one of those Enron corperate Jet. The Cesnna Gulfstream-5 almost flys it self.HI-HI Enough dreaming!
The hasstle to travel by air post 9/11, makes me sicker than a $5 HARA-DOG!!!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K6CRC on September 15, 2009
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To clarify a comment I made earlier about convention centers. I am sure that most tradesmen working at convention centers are professional. I have had a lot of problems in my many years of shows with labor and administration, sloppy work and bad customer service, but never had a problem in Vegas.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 15, 2009
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My exerience with the Javeits Center in NYC were filled with problems. This was back around 1982-1986.
Every show I was hired per diem, What every company I worked with same crap.
Too many demands for "SCHMEAR" money. From parking to end. One Record day, I had to grease some cat with a twenty dollar bill for some servivce rendered.
"Inventory evaporation" was almoat A law of physics at Javitts. You simply did not report it. That was made very clear by some "RENT-A- GOON SQUAD" PSUEDO POLICE WANNA BE.
As others noted, horrible location.
Location is by the Hudson river. No public transportation. Sometimes, there was a quasi regular bus.
It was well known for hookers and "crack" after hours. NY, one heck of a town! Please be adviseed most of the "BULL" has been cleaned up. However the location still sux.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by K6CRC on September 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To clarify a comment I made earlier about convention centers. I am sure that most tradesmen working at convention centers are professional. I have had a lot of problems in my many years of shows with labor and administration, sloppy work and bad customer service, but never had a problem in Vegas.<
::Good comment. I really never had a problem with the Teamsters in Vegas, either. Of course the conventions charge for every little thing, right down to carpeting, chairs, electrical outlets -- everything. However they definitely have their act together when it comes to loading stuff in and out, and both setting up and breaking down a whole convention in what seems like minutes.
We do the NAB show, sometimes others, at the LVCC. When it's over at 4:00 PM (or whatever) they start rolling up the carpets and by 5:00 all the carpeting in a million square feet of convention center is literally "gone." Then they start driving the forklifts and crates in, and within a few hours, several thousand crates are delivered and ready for packing. Just load 'em, tag 'em, and leave: And they take care of everything else. Somehow, magically it seems, nothing gets lost and you get all your stuff back the next day or two. Definitely pros.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by WA2JJH on September 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I book early to fly premium economy.<
::This is another reason I think Las Vegas is the place to hold a national ham radio convention...
Example: I checked "for you," Mike, assuming you were going to attend.
Cheapest flights are not from LGA or JFK for you, but rather from EWR, which I assume is probably just as close for you anyway.
I just picked a weekend at random: 11/6/09, returning 11/9/09.
Continental will fly you round-trip EWR/LAS on a 737 going out and 757 coming back for $319, including all taxes and fees, non-stop flight. It takes 5H 57M going, 4H 33M coming back.
Now, the cheapest flight EWR/DAY is on an Emraer RJ134-145 50-seater (commuter jet) each way. R/T airfare is $279 including taxes and fees, non-stop flight. It takes 2H 2M going, 1H, 47M coming back.
So, for $40 more total (R/T) instead of going to Dayton, which is 600 miles from you, you could go to Las Vegas, which is 2500 miles from you, and fly on a bigger, quieter, smoother vehicle each way.
This is very "typical." Flying to Vegas is cheap from just about everywhere, without even digging for any special discounts which are often available. I just looked up "cheapest non-stop flights" on Orbitz.com.
WB2WIK/6
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by VE3ACY on September 15, 2009
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Lots of negative comments about the Dayton Hamvention. The question then is where else in the Dayton area would they host this show? The comments about moving it to Vegas or New York are fine but Hamvention is put on by the Dayton Amateur Radio Association. Why would they want to move this show to Vegas? With that said we're probably going to see the Hara facility used for some time in the future. At the very least however, and I'm sure that it won't be cheap, but could they not pave the complete parking lot at Hara? It's in sad shape. Yes, the entire facility needs to be replaced but the parking lot especially is bad.
With all of the above said, people, get over yourselves. Lots of comments about obese and smelly ham radio ops. That's life in North Amerca gang! Get over that. Look at the positives associated with Hamvention. The greatest gathering of active ham radio ops anywhere. Major forums concerning contesting, DX'ing, AMSAT and the list goes on. That the toilets smell and the aisles are busy, is that enough to keep you away from all the forums, exhibits, the massive outdoor flea market, etc.?
CQ Dayton!!!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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>JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by VE3ACY on September 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Lots of negative comments about the Dayton Hamvention. The question then is where else in the Dayton area would they host this show? The comments about moving it to Vegas or New York are fine but Hamvention is put on by the Dayton Amateur Radio Association<
::Yep, but many if not most of us haven't been talking about moving the Dayton Hamvention: We've been discussing a real, honest NATIONAL CONVENTION or possibly an INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION, similar to what JARL does, which was the topic of this article.
If a real, true national convention were to be organized that may obsolete the Hamvention altogether.
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by W6PMR on September 15, 2009
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Just have to put in another 2-cents worth.
The fact that Dayton and the "Hamvention"
people put on a show is nice but a moot point
if we are talking of having another "National"
Ham show somewhere else.
As I and others have said, most Hams in the
west would love to have the show in Vegas but
the reality is that to have a large flea
market/swap in Vegas will be a dud, nobody is
going to drive 2k miles to sell at the swap,
they WILL fly in but probably NEVER bring items to sell.
A large, vibrant swap is essental, and thats
why a new "Nat's" will have to be someplace in
the midwest. Simply put you need a big turn out
in the swap area for success and it just won't
happen in Vegas.
Chicago or any large city in the midwest will
give the most opportunity for a large turn out
for a flea /swap.
New York or any eastern city will remove even
more western hams from attending.
We NEED a new "National", period. Dayton will not do!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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>JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by W6PMR on September 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just have to put in another 2-cents worth.
The fact that Dayton and the "Hamvention"
people put on a show is nice but a moot point
if we are talking of having another "National"
Ham show somewhere else.
As I and others have said, most Hams in the
west would love to have the show in Vegas but
the reality is that to have a large flea
market/swap in Vegas will be a dud, nobody is
going to drive 2k miles to sell at the swap,
they WILL fly in but probably NEVER bring items to sell.
A large, vibrant swap is essental, and thats
why a new "Nat's" will have to be someplace in
the midwest.<
::I agree a nice Swap Meet is a great asset for such a convention, although really not essential. The flea market at Dayton has dwindled down a lot from what it once was, and people still go.
But here's a point many may not realize: Vegas, including the Convention Center, the Sands EXPO Center and the other dozen or so smaller convention centers, do NOT allow anyone selling anything to simply carry it in or out (or "wheel" it in or out), at all. That's all Union controlled, period. If you want to sell something at a convention, you ship it in advance, the carrier delivers it to their dock, and Union workers deliver the goods to wherever the seller's space is. No exceptions at all that I know of.
Sounds very "controlled," and it is. However, it's also extremely EFFICIENT and doesn't cost much at all. In fact, I ship about 4000 lbs of crates to our booth at the NAB Show at the LV Convention Center: That's usually 4 crates of stuff, on pallets. The cost to transport it there and have them deliver it directly to our booth (and also pick up the crates after the show is over, and ship them back to us) is a couple of hundred dollars. Period. They do a lot of work for that, and they've never lost anything or broken anything. They're pros.
So, this would discourage a swap meet seller having $50 worth of crap to unload: Just not worth it. But it should not discourage large swap meet sellers who bring thousands of dollars worth of stuff that would normally occupy a large pickup, van or U-Haul, anyway. What it would assure them is a premier selling space with tremendous exposure, in a clean environment at a great venue. And they make it much easier for you by delivering right to your space, so you don't end up "carrying" anything at all. Whatever you ship you can insure, so if it breaks, you'll collect.
I like it.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KJ6BSO on September 15, 2009
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MacWorld Expo *used* to fill up all of Moscone center. Now that Apple is putting less emphasis on the show, things might be different.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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Apple actually pulled out of the MacWorld EXPO for 2010, it was announced at the 2009 show, which I attended for three days.
I expect the show to "shrink" for sure.
Moscone's such a cool place, though. Surrounded by art institutions (most of which are famous), along with some pimps and drug dealers. ;-)
I shouldn't poke fun, I love San Francisco and always look forward to going there.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009
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Should note that Moscone Center was the shoot location for the last 1/4th or so of the film, "The Net," which was a very good film.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KI9A on September 16, 2009
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The general nastiness of Hara is one of the reasons I no longer go. It's filthy, smells, ans is too small. Why should we have to leave the "convention" area, to take in seminars, ect.?
We have to keep it toward the center of the country. Not everyone can hop a jet, and fly to one of the coasts.
Indy? Chicago? St. Louis?
73- Chuck KI9A
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 16, 2009
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Well, I just sent off my letter to the ARRL encouraging a new kind of National Convention, and recommending Las Vegas.
I sent to CEO K1ZZ, President W5ZN, plus N3KN, K5UR and my local Director and Vice Director N6AA and N6VI as well as my local Section Manager W6BF.
Figured I'd start there.
Anybody else want a real, honest, world-class national convention in a world-class city so we can look like the big boys? I'd encourage you to write!
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 16, 2009
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It will take all of us to get the proverbial ball rolling to get a better convention. Dayton has run its course and its time to move on to something better.
Good start Steve!!!! :-)
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 17, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by K9FON on September 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It will take all of us to get the proverbial ball rolling to get a better convention. Dayton has run its course and its time to move on to something better.
Good start Steve!!!! :-)<
::To take it a step farther, I'm having lunch tomorrow with my Division Vice Director, Marty N6VI, who called me on the phone right after he got my letter.
C'mon people, start getting active if you want a real world-class ham radio convention in America.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 18, 2009
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Well, i just talked to my district manager and he is 100% against moving the Hamvention out of Dayton. His reply was "Why do you think it has to be moved out of Dayton?" "It has been held there for over 30 years so why change it now?" "There is not a thing wrong with having it in Hara Area." I also have talked to a few locals and they are also against having it moved. I think the opposition is because Dayton is so close to were we are located here in Indiana, and any move will be looked at as a negative deal. There are a lot of older hams here that either dont have the financial means to travel a longer distance or the physical means to be able to handle a longer travel. I myself would LOVE to see the Hamvention moved to a better location.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 18, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by K9FON on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well, i just talked to my district manager and he is 100% against moving the Hamvention out of Dayton.<
::I think that will be the general response; however the Dayton Hamvention is not sponsored nor organized by the ARRL, at all. They just happened to hold the ARRL National Convention there coincidentally with Hamvention this year, but that's not the norm; the ARRL National moves around.
I've been to Dayton lots of times (18 times in 36 years) and although it's always been fun, the venue has gone downhill a lot and was never very easy to get to. For those of us traveling from the west coast as many do, it's easily a $1000 trip including air fare and hotel room for 3-4 days. Vegas would be "cheaper" for almost anyone who has to fly in to attend.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 18, 2009
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VIVA LAS VAGAS! Let the rich gamblers gamble. The hams will cash in on many hotel rooms. Free buffet breakfasts, and lots of things to kee the wife and kids happy to boot.
We do not have to even linger on about the "Hose job" HARA may or may not give us.
Go with a winner. Let the Whale class gamblers gamble away. We will enjoy the fringe benfits. Great food, swim at night, and NEVER BE PORTOSANED AGAIN!!!!!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 18, 2009
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I was pretty much treated by my section manager like "Why would you people on Eham even want to THINK of changing Dayton!?!?" It's too bad we cant find a place more centered in the middle of the country so that the distance from both ends of the contienet wont be as much of a challenge. What about Dallas/Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Denver, or even Kansas City? Do these cities have a place large enought to be capable of having the Hamvention?
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by K9FON on September 18, 2009
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I forgot to ask. How long as the Hamvention been held at Hara? I know a local ham bud of mine said he started to go to it back in 1979-80 or so.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 18, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by K9FON on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I forgot to ask. How long as the Hamvention been held at Hara? I know a local ham bud of mine said he started to go to it back in 1979-80 or so.<
The Dayton Hamvention started in 1952.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 18, 2009
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Sorry, I just realized you asked about how long it's been at the HARA Arena: That started in 1964.
My first visit to the Hamvention was in 1973 and between then and now I've been there 18 times.
Which is enough for me!
I have "won" some sort of door prize or other almost every trip, though. Unfortunately, never any of the "grand prizes!"
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by WA2JJH on September 18, 2009
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cool. You won a door to a 1968 volkswagon. You walk around with it during the fly market. If you start feeling hot...simply roll down the car door :)
If one of those Deluxe hara-hog hams on a golf cart gets in your way...use the 12VDC cigarrete lighter.
As soon as he cuts one....watch his gulf cart turn into a nitro--methane burning funny as heck kabobs run through 50 portosans..
Look on the dudes face after going through 50 portosans.........PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by K9FON on September 18, 2009
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Geeezz.......
My ham friend also said it used to be held in April but they decided to move it to May.
So before Hara were did they used to have it?
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by WA2JJH on September 19, 2009
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April or May, it always turns out that it rains like crazy. I started gong around 1980. aways remembered them in May.
The one rainy day was sent under Medlesons or sombodies tent!
Oh..the reason why some always got hotel tickets.
A group of us would book for 50, i year and 1 dy next year.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by WB2WIK on September 19, 2009
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Before the HARA Arena, I think they used to hold it at a hotel. But that was before my time, and I never went to those.
My first trip to the Hamvention was in '73 and it had been going at HARA for 9 years at that point.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by K9FON on September 20, 2009
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Our local ham club takes a small van bus down to Hara each year, but lately only a few hams go. Most of the guys in our club are getting too old to go. Most can't stand the long walk. One of my older ham friends started going back in the early 1970s, and went evey year. Now he can't go at all because he just had hip surgery on both hips. So i guess it is up to us younger hams to keep the ball rolling.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by K9FON on September 20, 2009
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Hmmmm..
Most of the MFJ stuff i own all works great. I guess maybe im lucky?
One of my other ham friends bought an MFJ auto tuner from the Fort Wayne swap back in 2005, and so far he has had great luck with it.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by WA2JJH on September 21, 2009
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The Hotel we always got a room for, was near the HARA GROUNDS. I guess the days of the big FM BASH and som hotel hookup was before me.
We always got in Wednight or Thurs morning. Deals we going on well before it opened for the general public.
The Motel many got rooms at, after droping off st the fleaamarket was a few miles away.
The commeraderi made up for the crummy cndx. It was an eye opener to see how much horsetrading was done between those that arrived early.
All the local places had sign up, welcome hams.
In Dayton, the hams made local supermarets and fast food joints rich for a few days.
It has been a long time foe me. Stopped going in by 1994. Their is Gaitherberg MD and a few on the east coast that get all the Dayton leftovers for sale.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 not claimed prize??????
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by WA2JJH on September 25, 2009
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Most of the MFJ stuff i own all works great. I guess maybe im lucky?........
No brand makes everything lousey. My MFJ ATU, I purchased from another e-ham works great too!
You know the only way to judge is by statistics.
I heard their Q-"grid dip" antenna analyser is good too.
Most hams are annoyed by quality control issuesw.
I can tell you another thing about Asian/buddist culture. No snot kid will call you an old fart,because
your age is 40-50ish.
AGN tnx to auther for the great photo's. Funny, does not that new ICOM 9100 look like a Ten Tec Orien?
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KG4RRN on September 25, 2009
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Well, the votes and second and third votes have been
tallied....VEGAS WINS !
See you all on the monorail...
"Alice..I'm going ...to the Moon !"
(Ralph Cramdone)
ARRL Note: Vegas is #1 choice of hams everywhere, even ones who have never been there.
Seventy-Three OM...
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 25, 2009
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If we could only come across as big spenders. Do not flame.Hams earn well above the national median.
Vegas used to pay the REAL GAMBLERS, PRACTICLY TO GO.
They will "comp" the heck out of the dude that spends $5000/hand of cards.
Everything was free, for the "whale". Hams are more like Dolphins. We love to have fun, but at the end of the day...........Its stud poker $10/hand.
Vagas gets over on the whales. They are a group of japenese execs, old Rockerfeller/Herst may flower money folk.
The got lots of bux. Perhaps one of those dudes needs a tax write off!!
Hey brother can you spare your gulf stream 5, to send
people of good moral character to our "Binions of non gambling mineons. Yes, we can give you great advice on anything electronic.
To the Dayton folk.....you have done the job in the past. Many are sick of the $5.00 barf dogs, the Messiomic templar/auxillary cop wannabe's.
You know the dudes that drive overweighted gulf carts thru mass's of fellow RF shriners.
Hope to meet many of you at Vegas. Hope this is not a waveguide dream.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 27, 2009
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>RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009 Reply
by WA2JJH on September 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If we could only come across as big spenders. Do not flame.Hams earn well above the national median.
Vegas used to pay the REAL GAMBLERS, PRACTICLY TO GO.
They will "comp" the heck out of the dude that spends $5000/hand of cards.<
::You don't have to do anything close to that to be "comp'ed."
I've been fully "comp'ed" simply by placing $5000 cash in the hotel safe and opening an account with it.
I don't spend any of it, and get the cash back when I check out.
But that's usually sufficient to get comp'ed, and even invited back for a free stay. I guess statistically they must know that most people who put a bunch of money into an account usually spend it. I don't, but many likely do, and since Vegas is an "odds" town, they're betting you will.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 27, 2009
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Great idea. Gee, I leave money in Hotel safes(NOT VEGAS), and never got a thing "On the ARM". Heck, I even had to ask for my valuables back!! HI_HI (JOKE)
Thats all the Disney Inc. version of Vegas wants.
Amiche DE Amiche ran things very different from Disney.
You have a winner of a idea of how to bring back the Hamfesting B.P.C. Before PC(1980?) Heck, mention an all you can eat Buffet, a nice clean hotel, and "Rent a 25 year old college girl Lover" for the single hams!!!!!! Thats out of Vegas proper hi-hi!
Q: What do you call a 25 year old hooker going to college????
A: WITHOUT DOUBT...... A "HORTICULTURE"!!!!!!!!!?
That is one joke not to be broadcasted by THE AMATURE SERVICE.
I am all in for Vegas. So sorry Steve, you may never be compted to THE FM BASH IN DAYTON! :)
Anybody making this happen......Some may ask.....should relooation to Vegas happen. The quick answer is relocation is a must. HARA makes me want to heave!
If anybody says Dayton to me, I say I am sick of the $5 hotdog diet and playing find the single clean portosan! (there is one......but it is somebodys paper weight. :)
73....... hope to see everybody in Vegas. It would be a most needed boost to hobby unity.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KG4WXP on September 28, 2009
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>>In the U.S., there is only one place in the whole country capable of supporting a big hamvention, and that's Las Vegas. Period. No place else can do it: It takes a large international airport; tens of thousands of nearby hotel rooms; a convention center large enough to accommodate any size crowd, and be modern, well equipped and nicely air conditioned with maybe 10,000 parking spaces minimum; and be accessible quickly and inexpensively via public transportation from anywhere in the city area.<<
Not true. Louisville Ky would be a good choice. The Ky Derby brings in well over 10,000 people and the convention center is nice and roomy.
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by KG4WXP on September 28, 2009
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Louisville. It's 3 times as big as Dayton's facilities, a lot better kept, over 10,000 hotel rooms, and lots of stuff to do besides just the hamfest, plus a world class airport.
(Louisville is used to seeing an influx of visitors from around the world - - - the Ky Derby is held here, along with some big sports events, plus we have one of the biggest college sports followings in the nation.)
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 29, 2009
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"FIQ" THE DERBY. VAGAS DRAWS IN MORE WOMAN! I DO NOT MEAN THE "RENT-A-BABE" JOINTS LIKE THE "BUNNY RANCH"!
Showgirls are better "EYE CANDY", than a bunch of horses. Besides, most of us North East hams have a horror story or two when we recall any time south of the Mason Dixon Line.HI-HI!!!
Dude, Please be advised I am not trying to insult you or where you live. Darn, why does the movie, "DELIVERENCE" COME TO MIND!!!!! Do not mind my Yankee reduxtionist view of the south.
Actually, New Yorkers start hearing the fiddle from the sound track as we enter PA. 3 land is the beginning of the South. HI-HI.
Our President does know his States. Remember the line about PA. folk reach for their guns?
I do always see a Gun or two for sale in States that still have the 2nd Amendment.
Want a good civics lesson..... Apply for a NYC 24 hour full concealed carry license. The NYPD wants to ban the right to arm bears. Only 700 Bears out of a city of 8.5 million are licensed for a concealed pistol permit.
Took me over a year to get a resticted non concealled carry/target range permit for NYC.
Last time I went to the Gaithisberg Hamfest near some AFB, seemed like more guns were for sale than Ham Radio.
I am still kicking myself, for not purchasing a really excellent cndex post Vietnam M-16 in plain view at that Hamfest 8 years ago.
I purchased a TS-850 dirt cheap that same year ($600) The M-16 was selling for $000. A bargain!!!!
However, in NYC, Automatic rifles cannot be owned by anybody.
-
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WB2WIK on September 30, 2009
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What I've proposed is in no way intended to get DARA to move the Hamvention anywhere.
I doubt they would, and it's their club and their convention.
I'm proposing something entirely different: A world class event, to attract attendees from everywhere in the world, in a world class city and venue.
I can fly to Louisville fairly cheaply if I make a stop along the way. People from London, Paris, Frankfurt, Oslo, Stockholm, Tokyo, Sydney, Manila, Caracas and Rio can't. But you can fly cheaply to Vegas from any of these cities, and hundreds more -- in many cases, "direct" and even non-stop flights. And once you're there, nobody needs a car. In-town travel is cheap and available about five seconds after you step off the curb, and the monorail takes you almost anywhere you need to go for $6.
Instead of 10,000 hotel rooms, Vegas has >1 million. And 30,000 of those rooms are in 5-star hotels that aren't expensive. The 4-star and lower are even less expensive. The city never gets "so booked" that there aren't thousands of rooms available.
I like lots of places, but no place other than Vegas has all these advantages.
I'm working with a couple of financiers and event coordinators to see what we can come up with.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by WA2JJH on September 30, 2009
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sTEVE(wik) All sounds very good. Perhaps people will see that Ham radio has many Movers, shakers, innovative
thinkers, and know how to have a good time.
Of course, if it can be made into a "Jet set Junkette". Many New Hams would see it as a poor mans
freebie mini-ham vacation. It certainly would beat the
"Tropical Hambori" in FLA in Feb.
I stoped going to the Tropical Hamboree as well as Dayton. It seemed like the florida club was taking HARA leasons in fleasing hams out of bux!
Of course, even hams that are not frequent fliers, would go if it was an all set package. Hotel, food, entertainment, and a kick butt flea market of old.
(old, I mean like 30 years ago)
A decent hotel room, plenty of non ham eventz for the XYL and "harmonics" to do.
Perhaps Joe Walsh and friends would have sing-a-alongs at night.....or some type of decent band of Ham players. An Amatuer Talent show. An Elvis look a like.
I think everybody has the idea. Years ago, hams went just for the fun of it. Then the Flea Markets got too expensive and commercial.
I remember at the "Tropical Hambori back in 1990, I saw some of the first mass of PC CLONE VENDORS. Pet turtles and other schlock. I swear in my mind I said.....Looks like Hamfesting will be dead in 20 years.
Hate to say, that perdiction I made,became a truth for many. It would be great to atleast try to give ham radio a heart transplant and a face lift! :)
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JARL Ham Fair 2009
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by VU2IPL on October 1, 2009
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Very nice to see/read all the coments. Please find few/lot! more photos through my camera too!!
http://picasaweb.google.com/asureshma/JAPANHAMFEST2009
I really enjoyed JARL hamfest-2009 and it inspired me to go for JA call sign(as I live in japan) and eventually it turned to get my US call sign!!(its the easy way to get local call sign here).regards to one and all...
de AB9US / VU2IPL Okayama-Japan.
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