|
New to Ham Radio?
My Profile
Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Speak Out
Strays
Survey Question
Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation
Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers
Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
Jack Ritter (W0UCE)
on
October 16, 2009
View comments about this article!
Managing a Ham Radio Estate Sale by Jack W0UCE
Should you be a person who only cares for and looks out for yourself and you could care less about others, stop reading now; you will learn and heed nothing from what is stated herein and little to nothing said will change your view regarding ham radio estate sales. On the other hand, if you are a person that cares about family and friends, please read on.
Two years ago a ham radio operator friend became a Silent Key. Such is the case with many hams and it may well happen to anyone… Perhaps all who take time to read this article and most especially those that have a considerable number of years in our hobby could be next in line. In my case, I knew and greatly enjoyed the friendship and company of the deceased for over 17 years. When he passed away two years ago I attended his funeral in order to pay my respects.
I was appalled when both the surviving XYL and son came to me just after graveside services and said… “We don't know what to do… We are receiving all kind of calls and offers from people we don't even know offering to buy ham gear and some are making offers to sell things for us... We simply don't know what to do; you were his friend - can you please help us?”
My reply was “Yes, I can and will help you. However… put priorities in order - You do not need to do ANYTHING about his ham gear immediately, take your time, resolve primary estate issues in order of priority and when it comes time and when you feel comfortable, call me and I will do my best to help you achieve True Market Value for his ham gear, other equipment and parts.”
Definition - “True Market Value” - What one or more individuals are willing to offer and be in position to pay for a given item at a specific point in time…
OK… Perhaps that statement sounds corny or “Almost Official” - Yes, perhaps so… However, it is simple fact based on my and many other professional auctioneer and ham radio operator's experience in addition to public auction history on eBay and other public sources regarding marketable values of most any personal property item. If you could have seen the obvious facial signs of relief of the XYL and son, you would or should, have been filled with compassion and understanding of their situation and personal feelings.
A few weeks ago, the family contacted me asking if I was still willing to help them dispose of the deceased's ham gear, test equipment and volumes of parts. Without thinking about how much of a “pack rat” my friend was, - I replied, “Yes, of course I will be happy to help you.” Little did I know just how much my friend had in his sash of goodies - Little did I know how long it would take to simply take inventory, catalog, determine “Fair Market Value” for and advertise in hopes of selling the thousands of items he left behind. Your situation may be different; perhaps a radio or two and a few accessories but the facts hold true regardless of quantity or quality of items you have to deal with to properly dispose of.
The estate I am currently involved with is most certainly not simple. It is not just a typical ham shack but workbenches and cabinet after cabinet full of parts drawers, items of gear and parts for circuits and systems MF (160) through Moon Bounce - Satellite and more. Yes, I truly mean rooms full, a garage full, plus a storage building full of things, some I have not seen in my 57 years of hamming or 39 years of commercial TELECOM Industry experience.
What a truly great hobby this is. Regardless of our class of license, Honor Roll status or Contest Score History - We all have much to learn - much to learn about buying and selling and most of all… How we should all be compassionate about a deceased ham's family and true market value of his or her belongings, regardless of type. I have and possibly will make more mistakes - So we must always learn from our mistakes and errors of others… Take your time and do your very best to properly value items with true market value before advertising items for sale. Be HONEST - Tell the truth and you will never have to remember what you said. If you make an honest mistake, admit it and… Above and beyond everything else, be you a buyer or seller's representative let your conscience be your guide. If you can look yourself in the mirror when you make an offer to buy or offer to sell something and if when you brush your teeth or shave the next morning without feeling guilt, be thankful you have done your very best…
This article is fact… it is ongoing and I am for real as is the task I am involved with and which I truly believe in as stated herein. This is NOT an ad to promote sales of a friend's estate items; this article states my honest opinion of how anyone that agrees to assist an SK Ham's family should feel and act. Thank you for reading this post.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Those mega estates are a problem. For normal folk, get a $1.29 loose leaf binder and write descriptions and disposal instructions for each radio:
Collins 30L-1, $400 - $750. Sell on eBay. Local sale at $550 is acceptable. Description: linear amplifier, acquired 1980, tubes work, in regular service, has soft key, will work with modern radios, manual is in filing cabinet. Sell with manual, all attached cables.
And put a string tag on each radio on the back with an abbreviated description:
Collins 30L-1, $400 - $750, see the book "About the radios".
Do NOT save the information in an Excel spreadsheet, no one has time to play computer forensics. Use pen and paper and a well marked 3 ring binder.
On the front of the book, list TRUSTED friends with names, email and phone numbers. Also include general guidance on selling on eBay, widows assistance if your club offers that.
Keep the book up to date, as if someone's life depended on it.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KF4HR on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Aside from the obvious ethics and inventory issues, please continue with the article. I'm not interested in buying any equipment, but I would be interested in learning how you manage the equipment sales.
KF4HR
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K0BG on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good luck!
I'm still in the midst of helping a widow dispose of nearly 40 years of hardware. Fortunately, there is one receiving source (a school) for the odds and ends. And, like your case, the list reads like a phone book!
The late model transceivers (newer than 10 y.o.), went fairly quickly, and for somewhat less than what the market could bring if one wanted to sit on it long enough. But the rest of it is a very long story!
There were three transceivers, replete with external VFOs, speakers, etc. Some of it worked, some of it was questionable, and some of it was DOA. I repaired what I could, and shipped off the remaining to the various repair stations when I couldn't, or mostly wouldn't.
The four amplifiers, two towers, antennas, you name it, all required some level of repair, disassembly, and/or hauled off. Thankfully, the purchasers paid the price to take the towers down, and cart them off.
The repair bill now stands at just over $1,000 and I footed the bill! If and when the remaining two pieces, both amps, are sold, I should come out about even. I didn't keep track of the time spend, or the number of trips made two and from. Thanks to owning a pickup truck, those were less than they could have been.
I'm 69, and only God knows how much time I'll remain upright, but the experience has taught me a lesson in objectivity. I have a list started now, where all of the stuff needs to go, and to whom, even to a list of 'in the trash' items. I sure don't want to put my wife through what this poor widow has gone through over these last 6 months. If you're nearing my age, you might want to think about the 'afterlife' too!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AB7E on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I have to agree with KF4HR. There isn't any useful information at all in this piece ... it's just a long introduction to what could have been a decent article on a worthy topic. Hopefully others will add to what AH6GI offered.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB8WOR on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've got another one
If you decide to leave your estate to a ham club to dispose of, make sure they know what you're doing.
Dumping a basement full of stuff from junk to treasures for some guy to sort through is not a gift. Especially with the attorney breathing down his neck to finish up so that the case can be closed.
Also, if you do this, make sure the stuff your wife won't let you keep in the house is not stored in the shack. Not everyone wants to see the pile of naughty magazines from college that you can't bear to part with. For them it's just rude.
All in all, a suprise estate donation is a lot of work for people who are not prepared to deal with it.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K6AER on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
“Do NOT save the information in an Excel spreadsheet, no one has time to play computer forensics. Use pen and paper and a well marked 3 ring binder.”
I disagree. On large estate sales you will save a lot of time managing the sales leads, shipping if needed, payment, sale price and details of the sale easily with a spread sheet. My estate would require many binders and I dont want that to happen to my wife.
I understand not all folks are conversant with computers and that is fine.
I have handled about 7 estate sales for hams over the last ten years and in the process I separate the items for sale into price categories. Below $500, Below $1500 and above $1500. On the higher price items I’ll go out to QTH.com and pull some examples of similar items and cover the pricing with the widow. This gives them a very comfortable idea what the equipment is worth and removes any doubt about the value of the estate.
I selling the equipment you have to balance what is a fair price and how much time it is going to take to sell the equipment. To get the last 10% of value you may be setting on the equipment for months and that is a lot of work.
Most of the time if no family member wants specific items the remainder of the small stuff just becomes junk. This can go to a swap meet and be sold quickly or given to a ham organization. Assign a write off price so the widow has receipts for their income tax.
Much of the time the widow wants to get on with their life and wants all the stuff to disappear. Respect their wishes.
Typical charge to handle estate sales is 15-20% of sales if it is handles like a business and it is not a personal obligation to a friend. Situations will very.
As the author said the equipment is not going anywhere and you have to let the widow time to get their immediate needs in order. The ham equipment is way down the list of needs in probate.
One last item. Take a few minuets to write down which of your ham buddies would be a good candidate to help and discuss this with you hamster friends. Put some orders down in writing so you widow has some direction. This is not an easy thing to do but nobody lives forever and as we all know life changes suddenly.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KB6QXM on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Very nice article, as we all will be dealing with an estate now or in the future.
I like how some people are so "old school" about writing the value in a loose leaf book. Huh?? This is the 21st century.
I personally own and use a software program that you use to log serial numbers, attach pictures, define what room the asset is in. Purchased cost, present value. This methodology helps for many purposes. Insurance claims if you have to prove what you had and what it's value is. Estate valuation. Possessions are obvously calcuated into your net worth, therefore everyone should have an inventory of their possessions. If you become a silent key, this extensive information can help define the value of the gear.
These programs are not expensive, just time consuming for data entry. Back up your data externally. These programs allow for this also. These programs are around 40 bucks.
3-ring loose binder....huh? Maybe in 1920, but this is 2009. Spreadsheet....no...not a great solution. MS access database...not that many people know how to build databases. The program I use leverages off of excel and access behind the user interface. The user interface is easy to use. I personally do not like the customer service of the program I use, but it is cheap and the program is well written.
Google: AssetManage 2009 personal edition. You can download it as trialware. Check it out. If you like it, buy it.
I do not work for the company...I personally do not like the customer service of the company, but the program is worth a look.
There are many other of the same types of programs. This is how to keep track of ham radio gear and assets, not a 3-ring binder.
73
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N4KC on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Agreed this is a good starter article, and suggestions in the posts are already adding to the author's intent. It worked. I've been meaning to catalog my stuff and put it a printout with my other "when I'm doing grass root inspection" papers...in, yes, a loose-leaf binder. My wife would not know a spreadsheet from Shinola! Maybe this will spur me on.
Best example of this sort of thing I've seen locally was a group of four or five good ham friends of the SK who--at the widow's request--descended on the shack and did a complete list of items, assessed condition, researched prices, and published a list. The prices were mid-range, intended to sell items while still getting a fair value for the widow. Bargain hunters were advised to look elsewhere. But we knew how well the SK kept his gear and it sold quickly, mostly without haggling. I bought several items...maybe for a few dollars more than I would have paid on eBay, but 1) I knew the gear worked and did not risk or pay shipping, and 2) I knew where the money went.
I'd think towers/beams would be the toughest to handle, and create the closest thing to urgency. Towers and antennas not properly maintained could not only lose value but create a safety hazard over several years.
Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.facebook.com/donkeith
|
| |
|
Spreadsheet vs. paper
|
|
|
by K5END on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
.
.
I suggest doing the inventory in a spreadsheet, and then printing it out and storing it in the notebook.
In the top line of the printout should be
the name of the spreadsheet file, information on which computer hosts it and where to find it in the folders.
If the computer or file is password protected, that information may be kept in the typical sealed envelope held by a trustee or the executor.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K5END on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Excellent article, by the way. It's obvious you believe in what you have written.
Thanks for writing it and posting it.
Ignore the critics as you see fit.
73
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB4OMM on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article, and it deserves attention.
EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A WILL - AND THE WILL SHOULD INCLUDE HOW YOU WANT YOUR HAM STUFF DISPOSED OF!!!
I've been there with a family member. Keeping an up to date inventory with what you feel is a "reasonable" value, and keeping it with your will and other doucuments (and known to your personal representative or executor) is a must.
Sorry to say, some folks will try to take advantage of your estate if given the opprtunity.
Steve WB4OMM
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KB9JJA on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have been involved in a few of these. We came up with a system.
Two or more members of the club inventory the estate. If you remove things from the estate for testing make sure it is on the list before it is removed. Things of little perceived value are put in separate boxes to be removed and reviewed at a later time.
Make a list of what you have to dispose of.
Determine the market value using e-bay etc.
Offer it to the local club members at 20% off of our low estimate number.
Then offer it up to the other clubs members in the area.
We easily sell 80% or so of the estate this way. What is left in most cases is parts and pieces. One good ham fest and the rest of the items of value are usually gone. Anything left we put up for grabs at a club meeting, the rest goes in the dumpster.
This has worked out great for us, helps keep the time and effort on the people liquidating the equipment to a manageable level, and most importantly gives the family a very fare and reasonable amount for the equipment. If they took it to the local auction or we will sell it for you on ebay they would have received much less.
73 de KB9JJA/Dale
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KR4WM on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I used to get involved in <SK> sales, but my garage runneth over with old junque that nobody wants. It seems like family mostly just wants everything hauled off, good stuff and junk alike, and then sold and hand over any proceeds. I know someone else who helps <SK> estates and they have the same situation. His garage is full of useless trinkets that nobody wants. You may feel compelled to hold on to them in case the family wants them back, but eventually you'll feel cheated out of your storage space.
You may also feel compelled to shield the family from ruthless hooligans, and you might think it's easier for you to handle the gear if you move it all to your own home, but from my experience, this is a HUGE mistake! Not only does it take up your space, but you can wind up being accused of misplacing or misappropriating items! Better to leave it all where it sits. This has the advantage of all the wires being hooked up so potential local buyers can test the gear.
If the <SK> leaves a notebook listing all the gear, you're ahead of the game. If not, take at least two other hams with you to catalog and price everything.
Having been in the hobby 18 years, I'm now more familiar with what's worth having and what's not. I would steer clear of any old parts bins and rusty old junkers. These items just waste your time. It's nice to help someone out, but you have to be realistic about what you're willing to haul off and sell for the family. If it's something the ham used daily, it's probably worth selling. If it was in semi-permanent storage in his (or her) garage/shed, there's a reason it's in there.
In the event you wind up with one of these "treasure troves", it's best to advertise it as such for an agreeable fixed price and let some interested party who has the time and space come and haul it off. Give them a set time to come and get it (after collecting at least half down), and if the deadline passes, tell the family to call the garbage man. These deals are commonly called "pig in a poke" deals, everything is understood to be "untested", and the total sum of everything in the garage usually sells for some amount less than $500.00, no matter how valuable.
It's common to be offered a choice of a single item of sentimental value to you, to be used on the air in remembrance of your friend, in exchange for handling the estate sale. Usually, it's a "cherry picked" single item from the estate. A nice Morse key or desk microphone is a common item. Asking the widow for the <SK>'s main rig or kilowatt-class amp is not good form! You should not feel like you have carte blanche to take anything you want! The offer is a "token offer" to compensate you for your efforts. Don't take advantage of the situation!
Three reference points.
1. There exists a pricing aid book called S.M.A.R.T. (Secondary Market Amateur Radio Trader). The guy who authored it was KG6JTB, and his name is Dave Goodman. I can't find my copy at the moment, and in any case, it was three or four years old. His website says it's out of print. There is, however, a new book out from a different source: http://www.amateurradiobluebook.com/bluebook.html
2. Bry's AF4K on-the-web price guide to used amateur radio gear. Bry used to keep it up, but the job probably became too daunting. You can probably still find it on http://www.archive.org .
3. eBay completed auction prices.
Feel free to point out other reference sources. They're always welcome.
73, -KR4WM
|
| |
|
Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by KASSY on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
PUH-LEEZE inventory your stuff. This is not a task you want your grieving widow to do, nor is it fair to expect one of your ham buddies to do after you're gone.
My granddad inventoried his stuff. Parts? Just inventory the box. "Box of leaded parts". "Box of PC boards with parts on them." "Box of spools of wire".
He had spoken to all the family, who decided that since they'd been more or less reasonable with money all their lives, the potential "return" from any estate sale would not be of strong interest to them. So, with their approval, his will simply gave it all to the specific organization that he named, and THEY had to deal with taking down towers, etc. Made it easy on the family. The organization took inventory and decided the sellable market value was about $50K and made an un-requested donation back to the family of $5,000.
I am solo right now...but I have a will, and it does name an organization that gets the entire contents of both my shacks.
But then again, I'm a stick in the mud - if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it.
Estate planning is important - and you will want to donate some things to charity in the estate. Why not the whole ham shack, if the rest of your family is non-ham?
- k
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KC0NIB on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I bought one of those a fore mentioned "estate sale" Radios. I am very disappointed in it and in fact, from what I hear, many people have had similar experience.
I bought a big Kenwood from someone handling it for a widow of a SK. It was represented to be in good condition and completely functional.
Turns out that after buying it and beginning to test it, not only did it not work, but the repairs needed, cost me an additional $225 on top of $325 paid. Can't get the money back either in many cases.
So; buyer beware.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Forget the spreadsheet or the inventory program, no matter how "cute" or "high-tech" you think it is. No one has time to futz with it. No one has time to look through your file tree for something to do with Ham Radio.
Cute databases are a rookie's mistake.
After a few years, that terrific program will be an orphan, unsupported and no one remembers the binary format. After another few years, the OS and file system might be abandoned. Backups? Remember EZ135s? What about Bernoulli's?
Trust me, I've consulted on data recovery jobs for government agencies. I have an M.S. Computer Science and decades in this business. I'm as tech as they get. I run a 2U Raid-1 server on an UPS in my home network and back THAT up to USB hard drives.
Do it on paper. Paper can be picked up and read by anyone. Everything else is ephemeral and has a life span of 6 to 8 years. Paper is easily backed up, it's called a Xerox machine.
That said, 5END's suggestion to use a spreadsheet and print the spreadsheet with the filetree/filename on the print out is excellent.
Count on paper and a 3 ring binder, everything else is too much trouble. Paper and a binder marks you as a pro.
Don't get your panties in a wad about price. I have a 9.5+ Collins 30L-1 Round Emblem here. It was a silent key sale. I paid $300 for it. Here's the story.
I was walking a hamfest for the last time and saw the 30L-1 with a $500 sign marked through and $300 hand written.
$300?
Yeah, we've been here all day and no takers. Please, please, we don't want to haul it home.
OK. Done.
They told me that they sold a couple KWM-2A's, also Round Emblem, $500 each, originally they asked $750 but they didn't sell.
4WM's points are good too.
The boxes 'o junk? Label them, "Take to the next hamfest and dump as Phree Stuph." It's too much trouble to sell them.
This only works if the herd is manageable. 4 or 5 transceivers, a couple amps, some SWL receivers, a couple VHF rigs. If you're talking HUNDREDS of rigs, that's another class of problem.
Some of you are up in the several HUNDREDS. Consider culling the herd now. eBay is your friend. Take the cash and whoop it up.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KE4DRN on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
hi,
great article, I would like to read future updates.
digital cameras are inexpensive,
use one to inventory your gear.
on the back of each photo jot down
what the item is, approx date you
acquired it and approx. price you can
get for it if you sold it today with the date.
this can help with the estate when
the time comes.
73 james
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KB2FCV on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Generally a few of our club members have helped handle estate sales. We've had some widows who want everything donated to the club, money raised to go to a charity or they simply want to sell everything. We have had everything from modest (an HT and an HF rig) to packrats. As we usually know the surviving spouse quite well from club activities, it can sometimes be difficult or sometimes it's just nice to see old friends.
One of the more amazing estate stories, one of our members who became a SK several years ago wanted all proceeds to go to charity. He was a packrat! Little did anyone know, he had lots and lots of western electric tubes and transformers (he worked at Bell Labs for many years). After all was said and done, the western electric stuff alone sold for over 100K. It was amazing to see transformers and tubes going for $100's each. Apparently this stuff is like gold to audio collectors and collectors overseas. His widow was very pleased to see that much money raised!
I would imagine a few decades from now I'll get rid of most of my stuff to make it easier on anyone who has to handle my estate. Hopefully that's a long long long long way off.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N8QBY on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Good article. Unfortunately, there are some amateurs that circle like vultures, ready to pounce on a recent silent keys estate. People like this have no feelings, and are an embarrassment to the amateur radio hobby.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WA3LWR on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One problem I have encountered is that the family often have no true idea of what old equipment is worth. I recall one woman whose husband became a SK and she wanted to sell his old, crystal controlled HT. The battery was dead, and it had only 5 channels. When I told her that she would be fortunate to get $20 for it she became very upset telling me how her husband had spent over $300 on it, fifteen or more years ago.
On another case the family had similarly old equipment and when I suggested they donate it to the local club, or Red Cross, because it really was not worth much, they had sold the valuable items already, they also became upset saying that Dad had enjoyed it for many years and it should be worth more now that what he paid for it originally.
If a ham is going to be good enough to make a list of his equipment, please make sure to add realistic prices such as some hams mentioned, Otherwise the family may believe the value is far greater than what anyone would pay and be certain that all hams are out to cheat them.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WA3LWR on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One problem I have encountered is that the family often have no true idea of what old equipment is worth. I recall one woman whose husband became a SK and she wanted to sell his old, crystal controlled HT. The battery was dead, and it had only 5 channels. When I told her that she would be fortunate to get $20 for it she became very upset telling me how her husband had spent over $300 on it, fifteen or more years ago.
On another case the family had similarly old equipment and when I suggested they donate it to the local club, or Red Cross, because it really was not worth much, they had sold the valuable items already, they also became upset saying that Dad had enjoyed it for many years and it should be worth more now that what he paid for it originally.
If a ham is going to be good enough to make a list of his equipment, please make sure to add realistic prices such as some hams mentioned, Otherwise the family may believe the value is far greater than what anyone would pay and be certain that all hams are out to cheat them.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by W0UCE on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A quick update on progress:
(1) The EXCEL Spreadsheet method has worked well thus far. Each item has a number - as items are added the value of the estate "at asking price" is automatically updated. As items are sold the item number, description and buyer information is updated -Sold items change color from black to red. In a glance we know what is for sale, what has sold, been paid for and shipped.
(2) The Master Inventory is e-mailed to family members involved in the project so everyone knows what is what.
Some may prefer using paper, I prefer a spreadsheet so whatever works for the individuals involved is up to them.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N0AH on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
These are thesame people who get a $5 table at a HAMFEST to troll around buying bargains before the doors open. You see the same people at every event yet never selling anything and leaving their table shortlt after the doors open. They instead buy early, then run to eBay-
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Sold items change color from black to red. In a glance we know what is for sale, what has sold, been paid for and shipped.
(2) The Master Inventory is e-mailed to family members involved in the project so everyone knows what is what."
Not to pick on you but you must be in management.
We're talking about what? A dozen or two used radios max?
You're acting as if we're selling put options on the NYSE. Why would anyone want to know, in Red or Black, what the status or total is?
Aren't we dealing with $10K or so max? Did you notice that several posts mentioned giving away the equipment?
Please, everyone, don't make this a hobby inside a hobby. You don't need a database, you don't need an inventory control program, you definitely don't need to send emails with the latest updates. You simply need a paper list of the radios and probably only those that are worth more than, say, $250. That'd be, what, 8? 12?
Who cares what happens to the Lafayette SWL receiver?
Sure, it should all go to someone who will cherish and preserve it but you don't need to wring every last cent out. That's too hard. You could put the under $100 stuff on Freecycle or Freefest.
Handle the bigger, more valuable stuff, the ICOM 7800 and the PW1. Let the rest go.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N5ZTPN5ZTP on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
do not put your family through this. as your age increases and your health decreases get rid of the junk. It may be worth hundreds to you but to the rest of the world it is a one dollar yard sale item.the stuff that you use ,make a list, with the value or who you want it left to. In the past few years my health has declined and this subject has often been on my mind. I have sold stuff, gave things away and trashed a lot. I now have gotten the volume down to a managable quantity. 3 usable radios, if i want a new one i sell one first. if i need a part i buy it, cause before, if i had one i could not find it anyway,not able to do repairs anyway.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K9CTB on October 16, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article. It makes a lot of sense for those hams who are handling an estate for the XYL of a deceased good friend. Unfortunately, what happens many times (in your 21st century) is that corporations have been formed which step in to get a piece of this goldmine. They simply lump sum the widow at pennies on the dollar, and flip the equipment on e-bay or the free boards at a huge profit.
If you're one of the few who believe that hams take care of their own, you'll really appreciate articles like this one. Very well said sir.
If you're so profit-driven as to be unscrupulous, you're cheating a fellow servant and his family. As many have mentioned: Shame on you.
73 es tnx
K9CTB
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"I have sold stuff, gave things away and trashed a lot. I now have gotten the volume down to a managable quantity. 3 usable radios, if i want a new one i sell one first. if i need a part i buy it, cause before, if i had one i could not find it anyway, not able to do repairs anyway."
Very wise!!!
I need to do that with my parts. Most of which is in two small plastic bin units about the size of two drawer filing cabinets. There is nothing in there worth more than a few bucks but in total, it's five hundred at hamfest prices. A couple grand at 'Shack prices but there is no way that anyone should bother trying to get any value out of them.
Take 'em to a Ham Fest and dump 'em on the Phree Stuph table with my callsign, a gift for everyone, enjoy.
Yes, there are some nice SO-239's, silver/teflon, PL-259's? Gold/teflon, two spare pound spools of eutectic, Power Poles, dozens of RCA connectors (I went nuts on those a couple years ago), small switches, reed and one vacuum relay. OK, so the Kilovac is worth more than a few bucks, I think I paid $25 at a hamfest.
What I'm doing for myself, in addition to the paper list, is your advice. I am focusing on ONE main HF rig. I haven't decided what it will be. I have an ICOM IC720A, which works fine, a badly needs work Heath SB-Line, a Signal/One CX7A which works except for the big internal power amp.
For fun, I am building a Hendricks BitX20A, the small 20 meter SSB transceiver. The Hendricks will never be my main rig but it will be one of the three (or four or five) that I use and enjoy.
Once we're in our declining years, say, 50, 55, it's time to cull the herd. Wait, before you get huffy, I know two people who had heart attacks at about age 40.
It happens. A friend lost his wife, mid-30's to breast cancer a couple weeks ago. Really sad.
Cull the herd, make a list on paper and clearly marked in a 3 ring binder, label the parts bin "Sell as Parts on eBay 'treasure trove' for whatever you can get." or just have someone Freefest it.
If you end up with, say, an ICOM 7200 as your main rig, driving a 30L-1, what's the hardship there?
The real problem are other collector types. Model trains, guns, knives, Hummels, military, cars....
Cars.
I saw a family completely befuddled by a "car". Well meaning friends of the deceased blathered "THE HOTROD IS WORTH A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS."
Next thing I knew, the heir, who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer (the clue, she and her husband lease a BMW; leasing expensive cars is a losers game. If you lease an expensive car, get help.) had built a garage to store "THE VALUABLE HOTROD".
Lookit, in addition to radios and computers, I'm a car guy. Driver Hotrods are not valuable. Valuable is a numbers matching, all correct parts, never wrecked, provenance-build sheet, Dodge Challenger Hemi, environmentally stored and trailered to shows. This is a Chevy. Once you start modding it, the value drops to almost zero.
Hotrods are fun, cars are fun but that's fifteen or twenty grand max and only if you find a buyer, good luck on that.
They spent 10 or 15 grand on a garage for a car that might be worth 10 or 15 grand, maybe. I'm guessing that when no one offered them the HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, they decided to keep the valuable asset, rather than take the "loss" and sell it for 10 grand.
But yeah, I gotta work on culling my herd and updating my 3 ring binder.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K0BG on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Don't you just love folks like that Paul? They buy up the bargain trash before the rest of us have to look at it!
The real fact is, at Dayton's flea market, about the only stuff worth buying is from Far Circuits, the Battery Man, and a few other retailers. The rest is as you describe; Junk!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by W8JN on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
We all want to protect our friends when they loose a loved one. I stay away from estate sales because the "friend seller" usually has the "you are not going to cheat my friend" attitude, which translates into overpriced items. Here is the reality check. An ic7800 sells for $11,000 new. They are currently selling for $6000-$7000 used 18 months old. Same for the Yaesu FTdx9000d.
When a ham becomes "sk" and has 4 million pieces of "stuff" in drawers and cabinets, as the seller are you going to spend the next 8 years selling and quibbling over $20 instead of $24 for the mfj multi coax connector? The widow wants the stuff gone!!! Sell it fast and do it in a way that is painless. Protect the widow and sell it for a few $$$ under market value. She gets her money fast and you dont have a 3 year headache!
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K9MHZ on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>do not put your family through this. as your age increases and your health decreases get rid of the junk<<<<
Excellent point, N5ZTP. I really enjoy the shack pictures that guys will submit to eHam's home page, and I've noticed that a lot of people are opting for a clean, uncluttered station.....OK, it doesn't show their closets or basements, but I'd guess they're similar.
Clearing out junk is very liberating as well....nice to see your previous obsessions get carted off so you don't have to store it, maintain it, clean it or even think about it again.
Funny thing....all of that stuff that you couldn't live without....once it's gone, you won't miss it.
Best,
Brad
K9MHZ
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K5END on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
quote,"It's common to be offered...a "token offer" to compensate you for your efforts."
As opinions go:
When a "trusted friend" is helping my surviving widow I would want him to receive adequate compensation for the time, effort and the crap he will undoubtedly have to deal with in the process.
If he merely wants my pre-1900 telegraph key, fine. If he wants my mint TS-830S Gold and ext. VFO, that's fine too. There will be enough other radios to sell.
In addition to the equipment inventory, it might be a good idea to catalog your "friends" as well. It might be surprising how many "lifelong friends" show up to "help." If your surviving spouse has a list of who's who, and who's a flake, (otherwise known as a "s--t list") it might come in handy.
Bear in mind, there is no guarantee that the XYL will be the beneficiary. It is just as easy for both spouses to die simultaneously in a car accident. In such a case, the task will be that much more difficult for the extended family.
I've seen what can happen when all the brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles and 1st cousins and 2nd cousins, etc. descend on an estate to stake their claims.
It reminds me of a bunch of hyenas after they have scared the cheetah away from her recent kill--to fight over and devour what they did not own in the first place.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by K5END on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it. "
Great point. If the ratio of the ham gear inventory value to other family assets value is too high, something is wrong.
And the SK will have some 'splaining to do at his final Judgment.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by WX1F on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
My shack is rigged with a "Sleezebag" sensor...so if I'm SK and can't disable it when some Sleezebag waltzes into my shack, thinking they're gonna get something for nothing, the sensor will trigger an alarm, telling my widow to kick their butts out of the shack. It also senses insensitivity, greed and untrustworthyness.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by W7WV on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have had the unfortunate experience of 3 SK sales so far.
They were all people I knew and considered friend. I also knew the wives of all of them at least enough that they knew who I was and a friend of their husband.
When they passed. I told the wives if they wanted my help in any way to dispose of the equipment I would be glad to offer my help when and if they wanted it.
I sold what I could locally to other for fair market value.
I then proceeded to the well known ham sites to dispose of the remaining gear and eBay as a last resort.
I suggested that some items that were not in working order that nobody was interested in for parts be donated to the local club.
I also at times if antennas and the like at the QTH could not be sold locally that the widow just donate the stuff to the club for take down and clean up of the mess.
I have never charged a dime for my time and effort nor the use of my car and such to transport things for shipment to buyers.
I know that there are many predators out there that would take advantage of the widows (or widowers in some cases).
If you know someone you are close to that passes just make the offer to help out. It is appreciated.
Honestly after the last SK sale I am wondering if I want to do another without help. He had so many radios and powers supplies on the huge bench that he had. Then when she got ready to sell the home and move some month later we found that he had been storing radios and equipment in the attic above the garage unknown to her. Most of this equipment did not work of course.
Lots of work, that's for sure.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by W7WV on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just a suggestion too. You might want to do a listing of your equipment and FMV of it and give it to your wife (or husband).
It may well help them establish values if you keep up with the market.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N8QBY on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
One should take care of matters before they go silent key. Have updated pictures of your equipment on the computer. Along with this, a list of the equipment, and a reasonable price that will likely result in a sale of said equipment. List the condition of the equipment, and note whether the equipment is in working or non-working condition. And also have a list of ham related sites where the equipment can be sold. With this done, one can express what they want done before they pass. This way, the remaining family won't be caught off guard as to what this equipment is worth. Note before hand if you would like any equipment donated, and to whom it is to go to. With this done, the family can hold off the low-life vultures that circle the silent-key environment.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by KF4HR on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Here's my 2 (well probably 3) cents on this subject...
I participated in a fairly large SK estate sale a few years ago. A son (a non-ham) of the surviving spouse contacted our club and asked that we disassemble the SK's station and sell all the amateur equipment. Most equipment was middle to high end gear and had been very well taken care of.
At the time I was secretary of our radio club and took on the job of researching the equipment price ranges. Most of the pricing research was done by checking previous sales on ebay, qth.com, eham.com, qrz.com, and confirming the used price ranges with amateur equipment retail stores. Since I was setting the price ranges for the equipment, I decided it best that I not purchase any of the equipment myself. (Obviously not necessary, just my personal ethics.)
Initially the equipment was posted at the average going price (based on condition and age) and most of the equipment sold quickly. The equipment that didn't sell was eventually auctioned to the highest bidder.
Many headaches can pop up if an estate sale is handled incorrectly. Here's a few lessons learned:
1. First and foremost. Although the family members may wish to liquidate the SK's equipment quickly, respect for the surviving family should be the primary concern. Even if the survivors were not ham's, potentially decades of memories of the SK ham activities, then seeing the SK's equipment being hauled off can be a painful experience to the family. Carefully coordinate a time when inventory and disassembly of the equipment can be done.
2. To minimize future problems, inventory everything as soon as possible, and after research price ranges for each piece of equipment, present that information to the surviving spouse and/or family members involved and get their concurrence on the expected sale prices so the family members aren't later surprised by depreciated prices.
3. Explain to the owners the procedure(s) by which the equipment will be advertised; on-line sales, ebay, local auction, consignment, etc.
4. Early on, ask the owner, 'If certain pieces of equipment do not sell (within an agreed to period of time), what would they like to do next?" Suggest donating the equipment to schools or Red Cross, etc. Should the owner opt to donate some or all of the equipment, ensure owners receive any tax deduction paperwork.
5. Ensure all equipment is sold with the understanding the buyer pays all shipping, insurance, "and packaging" charges.
6. Expect potential buyers to ask about the condition of the equipment. You'll have two choices; test the equipment, or sell the equipment "as-is." Since there could problems with the equipment that aren't immediately apparent, unless you personally know the condition of the equipment my suggestion is sell the equipment as-is, and adjust the pricing accordingly.
7. The disassembly and transport of the station equipment (towers, antennas, etc) turned out to be quite a bit of work for all involved. For larger estate sales I recommend a team be put together, with one named person as the controlling authority for the estate sale, and that one person be the sole contact with the family.
After the dust settled from this estate sale, and the proceeds given to the family, I began to realize how increditably easy it would be for a surviving spouse or the family members to be seriously ripped off by individuals who do not have the families best interest in mind. Odds are, the surviving spouse may not a licensed amateur and may have very little knowledge what the equipment is worth. Add to that the surviving spouse is probably in a very vulnerable period in their life and would be very open to suggestion. This is the perfect time for the vultures to sweep in. Luckily for the family of this particular SK, this estate sale was handled professionally and honestly, although I can imagine that may not always be the case.
After going through this estate sale I began to ponder how my spouse would sell off my radio equipment in the event I become a SK. Even with a small station, I came to the conclusion it would present a burden, so what I ended up doing was to create a notebook which lists each piece of equipment (with picture), along with the model and serial number and any internal options, a price range the equipment should be worth on the used market, and even a paragraph or two describing the equipment - which could be used for the actual sales advertisement. Then I added information about where the equipment should be advertised. Periodically I review the notebook and adjust prices as necessary.
Sounds a bit gruesome to contemplate, doesn't it? Yep it is, but that's offset by knowing the effort will make life a bit easier for my spouse when I head to SK land. Oh... an added benefit. The notebook of information (which by the way, should be safely stored (a fire proof safe, safe deposit box, etc), also doubles nicely for insurance purposes in case of fire or theft.
KF4HR
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by K5END on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Reading all these posts I am reminded of the movie, "The 9th Gate" and the scene where Johnny Depp is appraising a book collection for the spouse of the collector.
I won't give away the plot, but watching that scene should be enough to motivate anyone to inventory and document ones valued material possessions before it is too late.
Plus it's a great film anyway.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB4M on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Another suggestion: Do make a complete and thorough inventory of ALL of your gear. Include a suggested and reasonable selling price for each piece. Also, contact a very trusted ham friend to take care of the liquidation of your equipment. I keep and up-to-date list of my equipment on file, along with the name and phone number of a ham friend who has agreed to take care of my radio estate.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K2FOX on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Many good points in the article and the responses. I am currently selling the equipment of a late friend, and it is no easy task. Getting an accurate inventory, then looking items up on the internet to get a sense of what things are selling for took quite some time. The worst part of it is the fact that most of the people that contacted me wanted the stuff for practically nothing, and would get nasty when I turned down their meager offers. I am still plugging away at the pile and I am getting a fair price, but it is not an easy task.
-Jay
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by W4SK on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have a more basic suggestion. Maybe it would be better called a "prerequisite". When a family member approaches you about selling the deceased's radio gear (or any other asset), do NOT assume that this person has the authority to authorize such a sale. Not every widow automatically receives this property in every state or instance. Is there a will? Are there, or will there be, claims against the estate? Has the Probate Court already appointed some other person to take possession and dispose of these assets? These are but a few of the many possible scenarios that might convert you from a "friend in need" to a "defendant in Court".
This is not to say that the person who approaches you for help, is being devious in any way. They simply may not know better. It's not every year, thankfully, that they have to go through this.
Mix caution with your compassion.
- W4SK
John T. Gwin
(Probate Judge)
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by NO6L on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Two items concerning the article/subject.
First, consider this *constructive* criticism. The article was as far as I can see was mostly an opinion piece, which is fine in a limited degree for an informational/educational article. But there was too much opinion and two little information, say about one sentence information for four or more opinion. That should be the other way. For example, opinions on the vultures and ways to record the inventory. Instead of completely discounting computer storage as non-viable, you could have offered ways to make it more robust using off-site or removable storage for the data, for example.
As for my opinion, if you database your inventory it will not require an exotic proprietary multi-level super-duper dBase III or IV, Access or Quattro Pro monster no matter how cool you think it may be. Just use MS Works or the old but reliable Symantic QA for DOS and save in comma delimited format. That way, it can be read by just about any datbase application or even a text editor. Even using a home inventory program is a horrible mistake. What happens if the install disk AND your computer get trashed? A lot of good that will do you if your data is safely tucked away in a proprietary, compressed form that only the program from a bankrupt company can decipher. If the unthinkable happens, a comma delimited text file can even be printed out at a print shop and a lot of libraries and private mail services. As an extension, save the file/s on more than one form of media, CD, San-Disk, and hard printout for example. It wouldn't require more than a few sheets of paper.
Item two. About the possibly lowest form of life to ever inhabit the amateur bands. No, not drunks, lids, slims, pirates, jammers and other losers. No, there's something worse lurking out there. Something so disgusting as to make the above tripe look like saints. Because, in all actuality, you know where they stand. These creatures are among us all the time, with smiling faces and calm demeanor. They're nice on the air and will even offer help at the drop of a hat. They hide so thoroughly that you won't even know their motivation for being so kind, until it's too late. If you're an elderly Amateur, you should be aware of them. Don't try to find out who they are or worry, unless you have observed them in action, it's not worth the trouble. Just be aware of them, observant AND skeptical. What are they? A flightless "bird" known as an "Skulture". That's a play on words for vulture and SK (Silent Key). I've seen them, when a very dear friend of mine went Silent Key (R.I.P. W6WAG), a couple swooped in thinking it would be easy pickings. No one else in the immediate family are Amateurs. But alas, it was too late, old Phil and I had already warned his brother about these scumbags. One, in particular even had audacity to claim that everything on Phils bench was his and he was just borrowing it, as the family was entering the services!!!! At this point you're thinking, "Ah hell, Phils baby brother went to jail for sure for assault and battery". No, he calmly listened to everything the skulture had to say, and then, politely told him he's a lying bag of s_ _t, that he was with his brother when he bought that stuff and he had only seconds to vacate the premises before an ambulance would be required.
Now that's how you tell a family member to handle skultures. Fortunately, they're very cowardly and the most dainty of ladies will intimidate them. They will simply scamper off mumbling in despair.
Now, I must admit, even I was tempted, not for profit, but for my own uses. That is why we are not God, we are tempted. But no, I could not look at myself if I tried to "swoop" some of my friends gear below a reasonable price. So, I purchased what I could afford, nothing, and helped dismantle his station.
Now, if you are a skulture, I have a sure cure for your condition. When a friend of yours who is an Amateur goes SK, resist the urge to "swoop" and go and help dismantle his/her station. Don't offer anything but help. If you have a shred of decency, it will be the most difficult, almost impossible, thing to do. You will just stand there, wanting your friend to come back. Short thoughts enter your mind.
It isn't fair, damnit.
Take down what was a part of his life?
It's trespassing.
Why did I offer help with this?
It takes almost all night just to dismantle the gear off the HF shelf, with only a few pieces on it. You're minds eye glancing over your shoulder, your soul knowing surely, "This is just wrong", even while your intellect is saying, "It's okay, he wanted this". And it's not easier if you're the unfortunate one to have to do it again. No, it's worse.
Because it's closer to YOUR day.
Every one should have to do this once as an adault. It'll change your whole world.
I wish I could say cheers, but not this time.
73
de NO6L
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by W7COM on October 17, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"exotic proprietary multi-level super-duper dBase III or IV, Access or Quattro Pro monster no matter how cool you think it may be..."
Oh boy, did you date yourself there!
But it actually makes your point. If you're going to store it on some computer medium, just do it in ASCII. Use some symbol, a comma, tab or colon will do. (Even those previously mentioned dinosaurs will take that input with minimal work.)
Still print it out and then put a USB stick in the binder, maybe a burnt CD too just for backup of the stick.
Data retention brings me to another topic. Alan K0BG, I didn't know you were that well into your experience of life. One of the most valuable ham tools I have is the wealth of mobile HF advice you have on your web pages. I have given out your URL to more hams than any other. I wish the ARRL would help you edit it into a book. There is another website that I go to once in a while that has often saved my behind. It is by a guy named Mike and he has discovered and documented more about Motorola Syntor radios than even Motorola has. Now that I think about it, I hope it is still there. (Thank the gods of well built radios, it is. Mike K7IC is still up at http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/)
If any of you have detailed information about some certain topic and you have been kind enough to actually make a working web page with that info, then please find a way to make it last. Maybe convert that info to Wikipedia or something. Maybe have the sale of one of your nicer rigs pay for a few decades of hosting (although I've seen many a hosting house come and go.) Look how close we came to losing eham if it weren't for a few good people to pick up the pieces during a very trying time.
Long term data retention is a science. If any of you read slashdot.org you'll see this topic again and again. This is one thing that the ARRL should really be working on. Please, publish before you perish!
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KASSY writes: "but I have a will, and it does name an organization that gets the entire contents of both my shacks."
A will is essential - but also be sure that trusted folks know where it is!
KASSY: "if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it."
It depends on the situation.
Yes, some folks spend money in foolish ways. But that's hardly limited to ham radio.
1) I know people who have no retirement fund and a pile of credit card debt, barely making the monthly payments on the mortgage and cars, but they "had to" go to DisneyWorld for a week every year. First class, too.
I know people whose houses need serious work which keeps being put off, but they have new vehicles every other year.
Collectors of all kinds, people who take expensive vacations or have top-quality season tickets, lottery followers, etc. etc.
It's not just hams.
2) Somebody who has been a ham a long time can acquire a considerable amount of stuff worth a considerable amount of money. Spend a couple of hundred dollars every year for 50 years on the right stuff, and the total value can be surprising.
3) For a lot of radio stuff, there was a time when you couldn't give it away. Then it became collectible and its value went way up. This is particularly true for certain parts and some rigs.
KASSY: "Estate planning is important - and you will want to donate some things to charity in the estate. Why not the whole ham shack, if the rest of your family is non-ham?"
Good point! Or "sell it for what you can get". Better yet, name a couple of trusted friends to advise.
---
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the "flood the market" effect.
If a ham puts one or two things up for sale, they will probably get decent prices.
But if a ton of stuff hits the local market all at once, the sheer volume of it can drive prices down.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Coupla points I forgot...
I know hams with big piles of stuff whose families never "did without" because the ham made smart buys and trades.
I know hams who were exceedingly frugal for decades, until the kids were grown and gone, the mortgage paid off, savings safe and the retirement secure. Then they acquired mountains of stuff they'd always wanted. That it was old didn't mean they'd owned it all its life.
I know hams whose collections were the result of other hams giving them stuff before they SK'd, or for a very low price, just so it didn't go to the landfill. This was very common before the internet.
One ham I know got a near-complete QST collection free-to-a-good-home that way. Every issue from the first one after World War ONE to the present, a few pre-WW1 issues, lots of duplicates. Handbooks and other publications too. All in very-good to mint condition.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K3AN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"The one who dies with the most toys wins."
But then it all goes into a dumpster or sells for half what the deceased originally paid for it.
What a waste. If you can't use it, don't buy it.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
All, very good points from ALL sides and much food for thought. Thanks!!!!
If we all work on our lists, which can be entertaining while listening to roundtables. Admit it, you like listening to HF roundtables, especially the weird ones on 75 meters.
I will cull my herd to a few good rigs,
I am thinking that my main rig should be a modern Ten-Tec or Elecraft mid-range HF rig with the 30L-1. I will keep my old ICOM IC-720A as a backup. I've got all the filters in it. It works great.
I have a classic tube set up from the old days. I was GIVEN a clean, working SX-100 which would pair nicely with my needs-work DX-60. The man included a digital read out for the SX-100. I just had to drive over to his office and pick it up. How cool was that? He made me promise that when I got tired of it, I'd find it a good home and never send it to the land fill. Hey, a clean, working SX-100? When I get tired of it, I'll sell it to someone who will appreciate it and give the money to a homeless shelter.
I am still working on a Hendricks BitX20A 20 meter SSB QRP transceiver and might get either a Ten-Tec 1320 or a Elecraft KX-1. (Please support domestic ham manufacturers. PLEASE, the economy is the pits. You folks who want and can afford a new rig, consider a nice Ten-Tec or Elecraft.)
As I get the rest of my herd cleaned up, I'll push them out onto the Bay. These include a Signal/One CX7A, the S-Line, the SB-Line and a flock of SB-303's that I've been fixing, or at least that's what I tell people. I accumulated the old radios over the last 15 years at "Please, PLEASE buy it, I don't want to haul it home." terms. In addition to the $300 30L-1, one SB-303 was $40.
Reminds me, about a month ago, that hypester COLLINS specialist (you know who he is, I'm not typing his Bay handle but they say his name is Martyn) sold an SB-303 on the Bay, "One of the Best Ever, Mint, Collectible, etc". OMG, what a piece of junk! The wrong knobs, a headphone jack drilled in the front panel. The knobs can be replaced but the front panel is the front panel.
This might not be the best time to sell. I've noticed that eBay prices are soft. Again, it might be the miserable economy.
de ah6gi/4 going to cull my herd before I go SK.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Someone wrote:
"The one who dies with the most toys wins."
K3AN replied:
"But then it all goes into a dumpster or sells for half what the deceased originally paid for it.
What a waste. If you can't use it, don't buy it."
I disagree with part of that.
Yes, it's a waste when something good goes in the dumpster. Even a junker can be a parts rig, or help someone learn.
But there's more it, I think.
I remember once, early on, helping to clean out an SK's basement shack/shop, wondering why he kept all that old stuff that he rarely used.
A surviving family member answered my unspoken question. She told about how much her dad enjoyed being in his shack, working on some old piece of gear, trading with other hams, talking about his collection on the air and in person, etc. How he good he felt when some ham needed a part or some information, and her dad could supply it from his stuff. Simply sitting there amidst it all made him feel good.
She likened it to the how some folks had personal libraries of enormous numbers of books, or huge flower gardens, etc. The value was in the experience, not the dollars.
---
Or consider the older folks who spend their money on trips and vacations, taking courses that will never result in one cent of earnings, and/or going to cultural events like Broadway shows and art galleries.
All that money is spent, and when they go, the experience is gone with them, except maybe for a few photo albums and souvenirs left behind - if that much.
But the money wasn't wasted if it gave them pleasure.
---
It's kind of odd about ham gear.
Buy a computer, cell phone, iPod, TV set or most other consumer electronics, and in a few years it's old-fashioned, and in a decade or so you can't give it away. Often if it breaks we just get a new one.
But we expect ham gear to last decades. More important, we expect it to hold value long after other electronic technologies have been junked as not worth the space.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
This calls for an open source software project?
|
|
|
by KB2SHP on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Great article which offers us all quite a bit to consider. Perhaps the software designers among us will consider the application of Information Technology against this issue. An application could be written that would accept a ham's inventory of equipment, ideally filled out while he/she is not yet a silent key, and could pull mean/median; high/low; date sensitive comparable pricing data off eBay and other online auction sites to provide a suggested price list = useful for the net or swapmeet. Same software might even be written to help post the inventory, or some subset indicated, for auction online. I suggest this because I don't have the software skills to author it myself, but know that a few of you out there do and might even be able to put something together. I eagerly await this invaluable addition to Amateur Radio software. Surviving family members and friends of the SK would welcome it as well.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K8KAS on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Having been thru 3 or 4 of these estate sales all I can add is to run like hell if someone asks you. They have proved to be nothing but trouble. I told my kids to take all my eqpt to the trash and let it go to the dump. Again run like hell. IMHO Denny K8KAS
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by W8JII on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Why Denny you old curmudgeon------Put me in your will. I'll take care of all of it for you. 73, Uncle Ron
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Buy a computer, cell phone, iPod, TV set or most other consumer electronics, and in a few years it's old-fashioned, and in a decade or so you can't give it away. Often if it breaks we just get a new one. "
Tube audio, guitar amps, juke boxes, pinball machines, console coin video games, military collectibles.
The quantity and quality of Ham radios is not like consumer electronics.
The deep mystery is why Collins gear, which are relics of WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the cold war as embassy radios, aren't 10X as pricey.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WD9FUM on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I was in the Coast Guard when one of my elmers passed away (I was very fortunate to have more than one). When I came home on leave, I went to visit his XYL and ask her how I could help. She said that she had sold everything to someone for $500.00. Now mind you, here was a gentleman whose basement was filled with all kinds of radios and test gear. It infuriated me to think that some vulture swooped down and took advantage of my friend's wife! I plan to have my gear catalogued and have one of my friends assist my family so that my wife and kids aren't taken to the cleaners.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB6DGN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"These are thesame people who get a $5 table at a HAMFEST to troll around buying bargains before the doors open. You see the same people at every event yet never selling anything and leaving their table shortlt after the doors open. They instead buy early, then run to eBay-"
And what's wrong with that??? If you're willing to get up that early, front $5 on the assumption that you'll find something you want (adding that much to it's price) and then leave, more power to you. I treat hamfests the same way I treat eBay. I go there when I NEED something, I KNOW what I will pay for it and I LEAVE when I've bought what I want or don't find it. And, I don't lose my precious sleep to get there at the crack of dawn. And, occasionally, I STILL GET SCREWED!
Tom DGN
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB6DGN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"They spent 10 or 15 grand on a garage for a car that might be worth 10 or 15 grand, maybe. I'm guessing that when no one offered them the HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, they decided to keep the valuable asset, rather than take the "loss" and sell it for 10 grand."
So... they probably got a free new garage out of the deal! Not bad at all! I'm going to have to pay for MY new garage!
Tom DGN
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB6DGN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Funny thing....all of that stuff that you couldn't live without....once it's gone, you won't miss it."
Now there's a man looking for a bargain!
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by WB6DGN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
""if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it. "
Just because a person doesn't NEED the money doesn't mean that he/she is not ENTITLED to it. Stealing is stealing and offering less than fair value for something is STEALING!!!
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB6DGN on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"One should take care of matters before they go silent key..."
I have done that. I have asked a (trustworthy) ham friend to take what he wants as long as it won't be resold, call a recycler or trash company, have the remainder crushed for scrap and witness it's destruction. No muss, no fuss and no thieves. I witnessed one SK disposal, complete with it's outright thievery and it isn't going to happen to me. And, I warned him that if my wishes are not fulfilled, he would be haunted for the rest of his life. RF in the shack, NOT EXACTLY!
Tom DGN
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by KASSY on October 18, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>""if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it. "
Just because a person doesn't NEED the money doesn't mean that he/she is not ENTITLED to it. Stealing is stealing and offering less than fair value for something is STEALING!!!<<<
The point, sir, is that I think you guys are making way too big a deal out of this. The widows I've spoken with pretty much say the same thing - "it was his fun, now he's gone, I don't want the stuff, and I don't care about the money. I've lived all these years happy, I'm not lacking in money and we did have life insurance. Could you be a dear and tell these men to please just take the stuff away and quit talking to me about money? Tell them to do whatever they want with it, just stop bothering me about it."
Before you make a big deal about maximizing the widow's take - make sure SHE cares about maximizing her take. Most don't.
- k
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by K6TR on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Kassy wrote: "Before you make a big deal about maximizing the widow's take - make sure SHE cares about maximizing her take. Most don't."
And you use this rational to provide justification for swindling said Widow ?
Disgusting !
Kassy wrote: "But then again, I'm a stick in the mud - if a person spends so much money on their hobby that it's "a lot", then have they short-changed the family? Why did the family "go without" for so long? And if they didn't "go without", then they hardly needed it."
And who are you to be making these types of judgements ?
Are you trying to convince us or yourself with this concocted rationalization ? The fact that you identify yourself with a nom-de-internet despite the fact that you describe yourself as a ham gives us some pretty solid clues about the answers to that question.
You're not a "stick in the mud".....you're a dirtbag.
Kassy wrote: "The point, sir, is that I think you guys are making way too big a deal out of this. The widows I've spoken with pretty much say the same thing - "it was his fun, now he's gone, I don't want the stuff, and I don't care about the money. I've lived all these years happy, I'm not lacking in money and we did have life insurance. Could you be a dear and tell these men to please just take the stuff away and quit talking to me about money? Tell them to do whatever they want with it, just stop bothering me about it.
Before you make a big deal about maximizing the widow's take - make sure SHE cares about maximizing her take. Most don't."
Life Insurance huh !
Have you seen what a week's stay at a hospital for a major illness is running these days ? A 6 digit Life Insurance pay out can be wiped out faster than you can bat your eyes. That is why SHE SHOULD CARE about MAXIMIZING HER TAKE.
Now if that doesn't convince you to see the light allow me to expand on something W4SK touched upon.
Most Medium to Large Estates, especially those where a Living Trust is setup, have an Executor appointed to supervisor the liquidation and dispersement of the deceased's estate. In most cases it is usually one of the deceased's children. The spouse of the deceased is usually first in line to inherit the estate but the Executor has the final say on what gets sold and when. The spouse usually has her own will drawn up at the same time her husband's is written. The Executor has the power to file a Criminal and/or Civil Complaints with any court for breach of an estate. That's how guys like you wind up standing before guys like W4SK. And it will matter little to Judge Gwin what the spouse told you when you attempt explain why you sold an SK Ham's S-Line on an online auction house.
Just a little food for thought before you back your pickup truck into the driveway of an SK Ham.
To W0UCE and other well meaning souls. Be very careful when addressing these types of situations. If you don't have a clear picture of what the SK Ham's intentions were before he pulled the lever on the Main Breaker Box you are risking your own financial well being by getting involved after the fact. Hams like most other people tend relocate after they retire with their children located in far flung locations. In all but a few cases those children will get involved after he passes on. Are you prepared to explain your actions to them ? Having your actions dictated in a Will may protect you from Legal Repercussions but if those actions are viewed as unnecessarily hasty by the next-of-kin you may be in for a frosty discussion or two.
Remember "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KASSY writes: "I think you guys are making way too big a deal out of this. The widows I've spoken with pretty much say the same thing - "it was his fun, now he's gone, I don't want the stuff, and I don't care about the money."
I've seen the same thing. And it isn't always a widow you're dealing with.
In some cases the question is "how much will it cost me to have all of this stuff hauled away?"
That deosn't mean it's ever right to cheat someone. But time and space have value too. If the survivors want to sell the house and move on with their lives, delay in getting the stuff removed is money lost.
"Before you make a big deal about maximizing the widow's take - make sure SHE cares about maximizing her take. Most don't."
I don't know if that's true, but the point remains that it's important to know what the family/widow/executor considers fair, and to find out up-front. Some folks will want to get every penny, others will be happy just to have the place cleaned out, etc.
This is why a will and an executor who knows what to do is so vital. People get all kinds of odd views of what something is worth, and may undervalue the time and effort it takes to deal with an estate.
I think what bothers many of the posters here is those few folks who take advantage of an SK situation, paying pennies on the dollar for really good stuff and turning a big fast profit at the estate's expense. Then ham radio gets a bad name when the true value of the stuff is discovered.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AC7KZ on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article. I've heard of hams calling on relatives before the deceased individual is room temperature-asking about ham equipment. Those unfeeling amateurs are of the lowest denominator. They are cheap, tight wadded individuals. We have a couple in particular in my area. These type of amateurs are vultures at best.
Ebay, and online ham radio sites are best with selling transceivers, test equipment, and other items with real value. Leave the wire, connectors, tools, etc., for the estate sale.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by AB3CX on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Families have this issue whether someone collected art, coins, stamps, records, books or anything under the sun. No one knows your stuff better than you do. Given that most hams live to a ripe old age, and preferred the technology of years ago, there's going to be alot of basements full of "stuff" with no place to go, or more sentimental than actual value. If you respected and loved your Ham buddy, and have lots of free time to maximize the dollars coming out of the accumulation, great, but people pay for auction or expert appraisal services in normal circumstances. You should receive something for your appraisals, and a comission on every piece you sell via eBay (packing, hauling, cleaning, and taking the feedback hits is all expensive). I think we all know instinctively that what we buy today at retail will one day be sold for alot less. And that lots of the stuff in our parts and junk boxes will never be used by us, or perhaps anyone...
If the widow is in such dire financial straights that she is depending on the proceeds of the sale to survive, then you are taking better care of her than "Hubby" ever did.
|
| |
|
RE: Do yourself a favor and take care of this
|
|
|
by G3LBS on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
A lot of relatives have got hernias carrying boat anchors to the transfer station.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by WB9URN on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Along the same lines....
Keep a list of your user ids and passwords on hard copy somewhere safe.
If you maintain a list of ham-related assets on computer, make sure someone can get to it after you are gone. Same for benefits, insurance, banking, etc sites.
Someone needs to get to this info when you aren't around.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2EY: "Buy a computer, cell phone, iPod, TV set or most other consumer electronics, and in a few years it's old-fashioned, and in a decade or so you can't give it away. Often if it breaks we just get a new one. "
AH6GI/4: "Tube audio, guitar amps, juke boxes, pinball machines, console coin video games, military collectibles."
*Some* of those items retain their value; others do not. An old Marantz tube amp can be worth a fortune; but not all old tube amps are.
The value of something old can be based on several factors:
- Personal connection (like the story of the old guy and the Porsche)
- Historic/artistic (why is a reproduction of the Mona Lisa, no matter how well done, worth so much less than the original?)
- Practical use - (A lot of tube audio gear, musical instruments, and similar items are bought to be used, either because new ones aren't as good, or are simply not made anymore. A guitar amp or pedal is really a musical instrument).
AH6GI: "The quantity and quality of Ham radios is not like consumer electronics."
Quantity, yes. Quality depends on the brand and model; a lot of ham gear was/is no better than "consumer" stuff in quality. Restore BAs that aren't top-of-the-line and you'll see.
AH6GI: "The deep mystery is why Collins gear, which are relics of WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the cold war as embassy radios, aren't 10X as pricey."
Couple of reasons:
1) Some of them are too big and heavy; not many people have that sort of room. An R-390/390A can be a great receiver, but it's not small or light.
2) They were made in fairly large quantities over a long period of time, and so most models are not rare.
3) Older gear is a niche thing with hams.
4) Many models have one or more characteristics that limit the appeal:
- Older Collins stuff can't transceive. Much of it can't do SSB. The KWM-2 is terrible on CW. 100 kHz/turn is too fast a tuning rate. Etc.
- Some of the really good stuff (KW-1, KWS-1) is so rare and prized that if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
- Some models use tubes/parts that are very expensive to replace.
- Features such as repairability, durability and such are not valued as much today. Consider the R-390 family - if a ham is dedicated enough, s/he could build one from a pile of modules from junkers, and could probably keep it going almost indefinitely. But it's not an easy thing to do.
- The price of anything Collins in decent shape is such that a beginner with any sense isn't going to use it as a learning rig.
- Many hams are deceived by the apparent simplicity and seeming lack of features into thinking the performance is lacking too. (Check out the 75S-3C on the Sherwood Engineering site - see how good a ~50 year old design holds up...)
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K9CTB on October 19, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K6TR wrote:
"Have you seen what a week's stay at a hospital for a major illness is running these days ? A 6 digit Life Insurance pay out can be wiped out faster than you can bat your eyes. That is why SHE SHOULD CARE about MAXIMIZING HER TAKE."
While I agree that the widow deserves whatever she can recoup from the sale of her husbands ham shack ...
Uh, isn't health insurance different from life insurance? Or did that change when the Icom IC-706 was introduced also?
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K5MO on October 20, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"I like how some people are so "old school" about writing the value in a loose leaf book. Huh?? This is the 21st century. "
When you grow up, you'll realize that not every job is fixed with the same tool.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K6TR on October 20, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K9CTB wrote: "While I agree that the widow deserves whatever she can recoup from the sale of her husbands ham shack ...
Uh, isn't health insurance different from life insurance? Or did that change when the Icom IC-706 was introduced also?"
The last sentence of this statement would seem to indicate that it is little more than a flip attempt at humor. What it does reveal is Solon's ignorance of some basic facts. And this can go to some other people in this thread.
1) Few of us will exit this world in an abrupt, clean and orderly fashion. That is the nature of human physiology. Healthcare costs are very expensive.
2) Medicare pays for about 80% of an individuals healthcare costs. Those of us who purchase Medicare Gap Insurance know all to well there is a long list of excluded services with even the best policies. As a result of this even those of us who think they have lived their lives responsibly and taken all of the proper precations return home from the hospital only to find bills totalling thousands of dollars waiting for them in their mailbox.
Now add to the fact the widow of the deceased has to live on half of her husband's pension and half of ther Social Security Income.
A payout from a Life Insurance Policy can be used for ANY purpose, and in most cases it is used to pay medical expenses. I don't see what an IC-706 has to do with this discussion.
AB3CX wrote: "You should receive something for your appraisals, and a comission on every piece you sell via eBay (packing, hauling, cleaning, and taking the feedback hits is all expensive)."
If that is the agreement you have with the next of kin or you CAN PROVE you had with the deceased. The detailed list you enunciate drips with mercenary greed and leaves the reader with the distinct impression that you are only looking out for Number 1.
AB3CX wrote: "I think we all know instinctively that what we buy today at retail will one day be sold for alot less."
Really ? Collins S Lines are going for more than what they were sold for in the late 70s. Last year I saw a 75S3C that went for over 3 Grand on an Online Auction House.
AB3CX wrote: "And that lots of the stuff in our parts and junk boxes will never be used by us, or perhaps anyone..."
"Lots" is not all. And if it were ALL worthless junk you wouldn't be there !
AB3CX wrote: "If the widow is in such dire financial straights that she is depending on the proceeds of the sale to survive, then you are taking better care of her than "Hubby" ever did."
So now you are going to promote yorself as a "Humanitarian" for ripping off a widow because you perceive her deceased spouse to be an individual that abused her ?
Dogs hunt in packs to.
Mister Schwartzman, you are a disgrace to Amateur Radio.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K6CU on October 20, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Lets face it, most members of the surviving family of a SK just have no clue about the value of the equipment. That's why they seek out help from "friendly" hams, who may or may not have their best interest at heart.
The simple solution, which I have already done, is prepared a Word document (and printed it out) that lists all the equipment.
This list includes a description (ie: includes filters, tuner, manuals, etc.), along with a "suggested" selling price, plus a "minimum" selling price.
Also included are instructions on how to sell this to the ham community (via the west coast swap net with mailing address). Additionally, I've included instructions on selling what remains on eBay.
It's your stuff. It's your responsibility to make sure the heirs get fair value.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on October 20, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Now open for business...
...Here at vulture equipment consulting incorporated, we take special care to ensure you get fair market value for your dearly departed treasured radio equipment.
We can help save you money when you use our confidential equipment apprasial service. Call us today for a free no obligation consultation.
:)
You know who you are...
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by AH6GI on October 21, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Same software might even be written to help post the inventory, or some subset indicated, for auction online. I suggest this because I don't have the software skills to author it myself,"
I have the skills. It's not worth doing because there is no taxonomy for ham radio gear. The DB itself is relatively simple, it's the data that's hard.
This gets back to a loose leaf notebook and a page for each radio. Forget the box of wires, the bin of connectors, no one cares. Even valuable screws and knobs, unless sold on eBay as "Collins and Hallicrafters Knobs and screws" should go to the Phree Stuph table at the next hamfest.
Another possibility, I know hamfest regular tailgaters. Get their phone number and mark the boxes of small stuff, "Give to XXXX at 999.999.9999."
Your 30L-1 or ICOM IC-7800 should be sold but even there, if your estate doesn't get top dollar, so what.
The best prices are probably on eBay.
To those who say the Widow or family doesn't care. That's just taking advantage of their grief, manipulating their comments to justify exploiting them, shame on you. If they don't care about $5K or $10K, then why don't they write you a check for that amount?
They do care, they just don't want to "deal" with those decisions at this time.
It's up to honest, caring Ham friends (within the bounds as set by W4SK, the Judge) to liquidate the holdings expeditiously and painlessly. Don't ask them endless questions, leave them alone.
It's up to us to cull our herd, tag and write up the major items. Be realistic about the prices but that's not that important if you have someone who will push the units onto eBay.
de ah6gi/4
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N2EY on October 21, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AH6GI writes: "It's not worth doing because there is no taxonomy for ham radio gear. The DB itself is relatively simple, it's the data that's hard."
Yep. And when the time comes, it's much easier to find and interpret a paper record than a database somewhere on someone else's computer.
Another consideration is the actual work of data gathering.
Say a ham has a 10 x 20 shack/shop full of stuff and wants to inventory it. With paper, s/he can carry a clipboard around and write down the various items. With a computer, particularly a desktop, there's a lot of back-and-forth between stuff and computer.
"This gets back to a loose leaf notebook and a page for each radio."
Which can always be put into a database at some point, keeping the notebook as a backup. Maybe put a CD or thumbdrive in the notebook too.
"Forget the box of wires, the bin of connectors, no one cares. Even valuable screws and knobs, unless sold on eBay as "Collins and Hallicrafters Knobs and screws" should go to the Phree Stuph table at the next hamfest."
They should be inventoried, though. "Box of connectors, FTAGH" (Free To A Good Home). One page could cover a lot of stuff that way.
"Give to XXXX at 999.999.9999."
Same deal.
"Your 30L-1 or ICOM IC-7800 should be sold but even there, if your estate doesn't get top dollar, so what."
I think the challenge is arriving at a fair price for a rig in unknown condition with no guarantee. Sure, that IC-7800 looks good, but is it in tip-top shape? What if it blows up two weeks after the sale?
When it comes to setting prices, is it more important to get top price, or to sell the stuff fast? Are there a few items to sell, or a monster pile? How much time, effort and space can ham friends donate to help out?
All these factors must be considered - and there are no fixed answers. If the house needs to be sold quickly, and is worth considerable money, time may be more valuable than getting top price. OTOH if there is no hurry, getting top price may be important.
"The best prices are probably on eBay."
Yes - but remember somebody has to take pictures, place the ad, answer questions, get payment, etc., then probably pack up and ship each item.
"To those who say the Widow or family doesn't care. That's just taking advantage of their grief, manipulating their comments to justify exploiting them, shame on you."
I think it all depends on the situation. I agree that taking advantage is despicable, but at the same time, getting absolute top price for everything may not be top priority to the family.
"It's up to honest, caring Ham friends (within the bounds as set by W4SK, the Judge) to liquidate the holdings expeditiously and painlessly. Don't ask them endless questions, leave them alone."
AGREED!
One last point about inventory:
It's vitally important to update the inventory at regular intervals before going SK. Here's why:
If there's something shown on the inventory that has been sold or given away, survivors will think somebody got sticky fingers.
If there's something found that isn't on the inventory, survivors will think they need to do the whole inventory over again.
Conditions and values change over time. In many cases, a 5 or 10 year old rig is worth a lot less than it cost new. In rare but significant cases, a rig's value will increase over time, particularly if it has certain features and is no longer made. Look at what a TS-950S and TS-850S cost new, and what they go for now, both in good condition.
A rig may develop problems over time, yet if the inventory says it works perfectly, big problems will result. A rig that gets fixed but which the inventory says has problems will be hard to sell and will get a very low price.
5 or 10 years can go by pretty quick, too.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by K2RP on October 21, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hope no one vilifies me, but there is another dimension to this.
Many times, there is no widow! The ham is not always the first to go. In the past year or two I've been involved in two such estates. The situations were that the main consideration was to prepare the home for sale or rent, and the heirs wanted the stuff out, all of it, antennas taken down, NOW.
In these cases, and even when there is a widow involved, I wait until the family is ready to proceed. I don't contact them, but I have a reputation for handling estates, and get a number of calls. I give the family 3 options, depending upon whether they want to get the maximum return, want it out in its entirety, or are willing to sell piecemeal at a somewhat higher return.
I make it clear that I will help whichever way they want. If they want to maximize return, I tell them how to advertise on this site, QTH.COM, local bulletin boards, as well as EBay. If there is not a great quantity of equipment and it's still set up, I'll test it and give an approximation of how much to expect. I do not charge for this.
The second option is that I'll take it, sell it, and take a commission (percentage depending on how much is involved.)
The third option is that I'll give them a check for the entire ham estate, take it away, and deal with it. I make it very clear that this is a sideline business for me and I hope to make a modest profit. I know that some of my fellow hams don't approve, but this involves considerable time, effort, and risk. I just bought an estate with a TL922A that needed new 3-500Z tubes for $300! Some of the nicer VHF transceivers didn't work either. Quite a bit of the small items, like VHF handy talkies have no real value.
The advantage of this, when the family selects this option (which, by the way, is most of the time!) is that they are done with it without recourse and they can devote their energies to other pressing matters.
I ALWAYS give the choice, and am not ashamed to do this for profit, any more than the used furniture and antique dealers do.
It is true that volunteers from the ham community often offer to help, but because it's volunteer work, it often drags on forever. The volunteers put their reputations on the line selling items that may or may not work, and the unsalable stuff is still in the house. There is sometimes suspicion over whether or not the right price was obtained for an item. ("But, he paid $1500 for that only 22 years ago! Why did you get only $600 for it?")
If the family does not feel my offer is adequate, we can negotiate a little, or they are free to go elsewhere. In most cases, they are relieved to have it done! I try to offer a fair price that will compensate them while leaving room for some items needing work or selling below what I estimate. Sometimes I come out better than other times.
It is very time consuming when there is more than a couple of items. (When did you see an SK who ever left this world with just a couple?)
I don't offer $50 for a new 7800, but I make sure that the family understands that they could probably realize a somewhat higher return by selling individually.
Another point of view....
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N3WD on October 22, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well a lot has been said and after 25 years of dealing with estate sales I can say that eveyone has their own way of dealing with them. I have definatly changed the way I deal with estates now.
I handle the Widow's assistance program for the Baltimore Amateur Radio Club. When a call or e-mail comes in from a family I make arrangements to meet them. It is understood that NOTHING will leave on that initial meeting. There are 2 mind sets I find, the first being everything is worth a fortune and the second is I do not care what I get just get rid of it.
When I encounter the first mind set I try to explain that used equipment is like a used car. The second the box is opened the value drops just like as soon as the wheels of that car hit the street from the car lot. If they have an internet connection I try to show them using ebay, qth, qrz and eham the average going price and then explain that is the best case scenario depending on condition etc. If I encounter the second scenario I explain that we need to work together and we will dispose of the equipment as we can.
I look over the estate and I DO NOT make any comments on equipment like nice piece or negative comments on that really rusted POS home brew antenna tuner. If I encounter a lot of home brew stuff I expalin that there is really not a market for the home brew stuff and determine if it is really worth selling. I take a lot of notes, mainly the major equipment to get an idea of what is there. I usually like to have a second fammily member present when or if I come back to get the equipment estate and explain things to both. I never try to give an estimate on an estate or piece of equipment. It will come back to bite you in the ass. There are times I did not get even half of what i expected on some things any other went for twice what I expected. Ebay is a funny place for that.
I use ebay, eham, qrz and qth swap meets to find an average going price for things. For those items I cannot find anything on I have some trusted ham freinds that are experts in different items. One is a Collins and tube expert, One is a Ten-Tec expert. I subscribe to the Yeasu FT and other reflectors to stay on top of market trends.
I give the family a little background on me. They need to feel comfortable with you taking the equipment out. For all they know it will leave and they won't see a thing. I have a few widow's I have assisted in the past that have no problem being a reference for me. I have found that if the family does not know me this goes a long way in the trust factor.
I also DO NOT take the junk, I refuse to this way I do not end up with a garage full of crap. I suggest that the family make a project of seperating any metal and take to a recycling plant for some cash. When I send the first installment or give to them in person I suggest they go out to a nice restaurant to remember the SK.
I only take the items I know after 25 years of experience WILL sell. I have a little agreement form that I have written up explaining how I sell the equipment. I DO NOT and NEVER WILL take a percentage or equipoment from the estate. If the family insists then I let them decide any compensation but I do NOT suggest and I never ask for it.
I only ask that if I am going to go to swap meets that they pay for the admission and tailgate spots out of the proceeds. I do not ask for gas money as most of the time I would be going to the meets anyway.
I stay in contact with the family, if the swap meets are not moving the equipment fast enough then I list it on qth, qrz, eham etc. I make sure that the family receives money on an regular basis and when I feel we have reached the end I list what is left what I have asked for it and did not get and ask them what they wish to do with it. I suggest donating it to a 501C3.
I always make sure that the last payment is made in person and make sure the family is content. This goes a long way.
I have noticed that many hams try to rip off the families or expect me to seel the stuff for nothing. Well call me old fasioned but I would rather see the stuff be donated that sold for nothing.
Just some rants
Bill, N3WD
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N3LKA on October 23, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
What ever you do, make sure you tell your wife, husband, friends or family members who to call about your equipment. I'm sure we've seen all of the guys who "want to help" with an estate just to make money for themselves.
My wife already knows who to call and that I trust them with my gear in case I pass on. I don't have a will yet, but at least that's one thing out of the way for her.
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by OLLIEOXEN27 on October 27, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Someone dies and all the maggots start calling...
Pretty well explains why I won't reveal my callsign on this sight. I'm fifty seven years old and some of the worst people I've ever known were hams - true bottom feeders.
oli
|
| |
|
Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by N4RJ on October 29, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I put my family through enough for 53 years of hamming.
Here is what my will reads:
"With due respect for the torture I must have put my family and TVI/RFI enduring neighbors through in 53+ years of hamming, please totally remove all my Ham junk to the dump and set it on fire. My family and neighbors will enjoy watching it bulldozed into the heap."
P.S. They care nothing of the 100,000 rare QSL cards either....burn 'em.
P.S.S. And, just place my J-38 Key in the casket with me under my right hand and tell everyone I am deeply sorry for all those contests I was in."
...-.-
|
| |
|
RE: Spreadsheet vs. paper
|
|
|
by N0SOY on November 2, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As an attorney who has handled estates in probate a spreadsheet is invaluable time saver. I have had PRs walk into my office with a notebook list so My secretary had to enter it into a spreadsheet in order to produce the probate documents. The estate was billed for the time entering all of the stuff. At $60.00 an hour secretary time it adds up fast. Then I had to spend extra time checking it.
On the flip side the PR that comes in with it in electronic format makes the filing of the inventory easier, faster and Cheaper.
Put it on a spreadsheet. Just do not use a off the wall program keep it on excel and save a copy in txt that can be imported in all programs.
|
| |
|
RE: Managing Ham Radio Estate Sales
|
|
|
by VE3SJU on November 14, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One thing to consider instead of the dumpster for left over parts or odds and ends is that the local scrap metal yard will pay for it. put all the metal in one bin. put anything with p.c.b. and copper wound coils etc in another bin. the metal will not fetch much but copper bearing (i.e. printed circuit boards and such) will fetch a couple extra dollars and keep the stuff out of the dump.
brian
VE3SJU
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
FCC Proposes Wide-Ranging Changes to Amateur Radio Service Rules:
Great Station Speaker
Greenies
Is There Room for Another Club?
Taking a Look Back at the HTX-202
Other Editorial Articles
The SB Project
Hamming It Up, The Early Years
A Hobby from a Hobby
How to Spot a Scam
JARL Ham Fair 2009
|
|
|
