eHam.net - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community

Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net


QSL Managers
     

Ham Links
     



[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Mobile Impulse Noise

from Alan Applegate, K0BG on January 18, 2010
View comments about this article!

"Editor's Note: Due to the popularity of some of eHam's older articles, many of which you may not have read, the eHam.net team has decided to rerun some of the best articles that we have received since eHam's inception. These articles will be reprinted to add to the quality of eHam's content and in a show of appreciation to the authors of these articles." This article was originally published on: November 18, 2006

Mobile Impulse Noise

A recent comment added to my Alternator Whine article, prompted this one on mobile impulse noise.

That comment stated that some forms of ignition noise can sound like alternator whine. When combined with some forms of DSP (Digital Signal Processing), there is a ring of truth in the statement (pun intended). Nonetheless, a clarification is in order.


As I stated in the alternator article, the frequency of alternator whine is roughly equivalent to the engine RPM. At a steady-state 60 MPH, the average V6 vehicle engine is turning about 1,800 RPM. Four cylinders will be a little higher, and eight cylinders a little lower. So the whine will be in the range of 1,500 Hz, to about 3,000 Hz. Twelve diode alternators will be double this amount. Generally speaking, the output is a series of sinusoidal half waves, and as such the rise time is rather slow. As a result, there is very little harmonic energy generated unless there is a bad diode. Even then there is no appreciable amount of RFI generated.

At the same RPM, a V6 engine will fire three times with each revolution. At 60 MPH, that's a frequency of 5,400 Hz. Because the ignition arc occurs when the field of the ignition coil relaxes, the rise time is very fast. As a result, a whole lot of RFI is generated well into the VHF spectrum. Because of the different gear ratios used, and at any given MPH, the RFI frequency tends to be the same regardless of the number of cylinders. Incidentally, the level of ignition RFI changes with engine load and/or RPM.

Modern engines universally incorporate electromechanical fuel injection. The electromagnetic coil is energized for a very precise period of time by the engine control computer. When the field collapses, a fast rise time pulse is generated. Here too the resulting RFI extends into the VHF spectrum. As a rule, the injector pulse is less bothersome, due in part to a lower current requirement (verses the ignition). However, the new direct-gasoline injection systems use higher current levels as the nominal fuel rail pressure is as high as 150 BAR, therefore they tend to be worse RFI offenders.

Modern diesels aren't much better with respect to impulse noise as they too use electromagnetic injectors or an electromagnetic shuttle system. In fact, the current used to drive the coils tends to be higher than gas engines so more RFI is generated.


DSP systems come in many different forms. They may be audio based, IF based, or external. In a few high-priced radios, the DSP is applied directly to, and at, the incoming signal's frequency. The effect, or lack of it, on the incoming signal is different with each design. However, a few general assumptions can be made with respect to amateur transceivers.

1). We limit the audio bandwidth to about 3 kHz, albeit the front ends may be barn door wide.

2). Fast rise time signals (ignition RFI) tend to be masked better than slow rise time signals (alternator whine), which is, as a rule, part of their algorithm.

3). Bandpass width and depth adjustments change the perceived level and shape of any given type of interference.

4). Signal integration and phase distortion are common problems, especially with inexpensive DSP designs.

As a result of these shortcomings, the perceived interference (the actual audio) we hear out of our speakers can be much different than the actual signal would otherwise sound. This makes definitive identification of the various AFI, RFI, and EMI signals difficult.


There are very few built in noise blanker circuits worth any mentioning. Almost universally, the distortion, IMD products, and crosstalk they generate makes their use in high-level RFI situations antithetical (mutually incompatible). Add in a dose of poor DSP design, and it becomes very difficult to distinguish one RFI source from another.


It is always best to cure an RFI problem at it source. If you don't know the source, you're wasting time and effort. Identifying which is which is difficult at best. There are a few examples of the worst offenders located within my web site article Noise ID (http://www.k0bg.com). These sound files may help you identify which is which. However, they are by no means the only examples.

Nonetheless, here are a few suggestions to make sure which RFI generator you're dealing with.

1). Keep the DSP off, or at least at it's widest bandpass setting and minimum depth (DSP level in some cases).

2). Keep the noise blanker turned off.

3). Use the highest band (frequency) where the RFI can be easily heard.

4). If you remove the antenna and the noise goes away, it's a safe bet it's radiated RFI rather than induced noise through the wiring.

5). If removing the coax from the radio reduces or increases what appears to be alternator whine, chances are it's caused by poor DC wiring and/or grounding.

6). If you hear a rhythmic tick, tick, tick, that is too slow to be ignition, it could very well be a fuel pump.

7). A carrier which continues for a few seconds after turning off the ignition may also be a fuel pump. On Honda vehicles, the carrier shows up every 5 kHz, and can even be heard on 10 meters. It is caused by a mono-stable vibrator which drives the brush-less fuel pump motor. The motor stays on until the oil pressure drops as an aid in purging the system of excess vapor. This fact makes identification somewhat easier.

8). Some fuel pumps use brushed motors even though they are mounted inside the fuel tank. These cause an intermittent hash. There is usually a few seconds of hash when you first turn on the ignition, and then intermittently after the engine is running. Revving the engine changes the stacotic rhythm, but not the level of RFI.

9). If you listen carefully at low RPMs, you'll hear the injection pulse, and then the ignition pulse immediately afterward. If you have a scope, and connect it to the audio output, you can actually see the two pulses. The ignition pulse is always much higher than the injector pulse. The point being, most of the time you can't hear the injectors as their pulse is masked by the ignition pulse.

10). Some lessor known RFI generators are throttle position motors (primarily drive-by-wire systems), IAC (Idle Air Controls), Navi ROM motors, cross-flow ventilation motors (which can run even though the HVAC is off), and servo motors in automatic transmissions.

11). The most common RFI sources (more or less in order), ignition, injectors, cooling fans, HVAC fans, and windshield wiper motors.


If there is anything universal about noise suppression, it is the fact no solution is universal. Here's a few things to keep in mind while you're locating a source:

There are as many "fixes" as there are RFI sources. These include (more or less in order) very robust bonding, proper antenna mounting, proper DC and coax wiring, split beads, shielding, shunt capacitors, and a host of others;

What suppresses some forms of RFI, won't necessarily work with other similar sources;

What suppresses a specific RFI problem on your last vehicle, is no indication it will work on your new one;

Two separate sources can produce the exact same signature. Curing one won't necessarily cure or mask the other. In other words, if your attempt to cure a source (like adding a split bead or two), didn't cure the RFI, don't remove the first cure until you find the second identical signatured one. A good example of this is injector and ignition RFI;

Two, otherwise identical, vehicles can have vastly different levels of RFI, EMI, and AFI. Buying a vehicle because you have heard it is RFI clean is a prescription for owning the worst RFI generator on four wheels. If you're really into mobile operation, take along a decent HF receiver as a precaution;

If a couple of ground straps cured your RFI problem, the only conclusion that can be draw is, you were very lucky;

What ever you do, don't give up! John Pavelich, VE3XKD, has spend about 200 hours, and that much money curing the RFI emitted by his Prius, and he isn't done yet!


On the forefront of automotive technology is a new vehicle breaking system being developed by Siemens, a German electronics company. A short write up of the system appears in the November 13th issue of AutoWeek, on page 10. While a very significant development in many ways, the system uses high frequency signalling to control the electronic actuation motors. It is yet another example of why it pays to be cognisant of cutting edge, digitally controlled devices, which have a potential of causing serious RFI.


FCC Part 15, Subpart B, 15.103 (a) exempts automobiles as unintentional radiators. However, the preamble to that exemption states that manufacturers should endeavor to keep levels below those set by Part 15. Exemption or not, excessive levels of RFI from any vehicle should be brought to the attention of the selling dealership, factory representative, and even the corporate offices of the manufacturer. It is a case of the proverbial squeaking wheel. After all, we don't want automotive digital electronics to become another BPL-like wasteland.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by W9PMZ on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
"On the forefront of automotive technology is a new vehicle breaking system being developed by Siemens, a German electronics company. "

Do we need t avoid junkyards?

73,

carl - w9pmz
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise My car is a ROLLS!  
by K0FF on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Not not Rolls Royce, Rolls-Canardly.

Rolls *down* the hills, Can 'Ardly make it up the other side!

Thanks for the data.

One of my early mobile setups was in a 1955 Buick, and had a huge dynamotor in the trunk for high voltage on the transmitter. A vibrator pack drove the receiver. I had to time my transmissions so that I would never hit the transmit button while at idle at a stop sign. The drag on the generator from the dynamotor would stall the engine! Only transmit while moving.

This was on AM and QRN noise was a big problem.

On any mobile installation, much noise can be reduced by running the negative power lead all the way to the battery terminal. The coax shield at the antenna end can be left ungrounded for DC too. Ground loops you know

By the way, always fuse the negative lead as well as the positive lead. That saved many a radio from accidental connections.

73 Geo>K0FF
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise My car is a ROLLS!  
by K6AER on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Alan,

Thanks for the great compendium on automotive interference. Very clear.

I might also add the ABS breaking systems can make a fair amount of pulse noise. I live in the wilds of Colorado and we have more dirt roads and paved ones out here. More often than not when applying any breaking and the traction is lose, the ABS starts to kick in. You can hear the impulses on HF. I can hear the solution now…never break.

73, Mike
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K5END on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
I must be lucky.

My Honda Ridgeline had only a small amount of noise, source undetermined.

I grounded the tailpipe to the frame and added a fairly big capacitor across the DC supply at the radio. Not a peep of ignition noise now when using my IC-7000 or FT-100D. I don't even need or use the NB on either radio.
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by QRZDXR2 on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Again you have done it K0bg... nice replay.

One thing you didn't mention was the grounding of the exhaust pipe... wow before you suggested that for our vehicle I would have never ever done it. After what a difference. It was about 3 s units louder without ground than after. And the ignition/ whine and everything went away.

I would suggest that you promote that also and suggest how to go about it. After all most of the exhaust pipes are insulated from ground by rubber sooooo... what happens is the exhaust pipe makes a big antenna undeer the car...

I also put a larger alternator on the vheicle to take care of the RV trailer, driving lights and radio. No one mentioned the fact that the Ground from the engine/alternator should ALSO be enlarged. The kit only came with a piece of No. 2 wire to go from the new alternator to a fuse and then buss system.

Changing the ground wire going to the engine/battery also helped keep the buss voltage even when you come from the battey.

Lots of good info on your web site.. Thanks for all the effort and clearly your the MAN when it comes to mobile info.
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by N4MJG on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Alan,

good job ! i 've read at your site and learn lot more since i be came first ham .in 2007 i was dealing with problem tarheel on other truck before i got anouther truck. i found the problem i was dealing with. went to the site found i was looking for the problem went away
!

Since i've other truck i have now maybe one day i'll put the HF antenna on this newer 2003 that is but not going too for right now, too busy doing other things !

73
Jackie
N4MJG
WWW.N4MJG.COM
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by W7QPZ on January 18, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Once again an outstanding article
Thank You
Lou Echelbarger
W7QPZ
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by N1HOS on January 19, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
Once again the advice from this man is like the word of God. I read, try and try somemore and now I have a good mobile setup. I can shut off the DSP and NB and no difference in noise level. Now if only I had some power so I could be heard??? Heard better I guess I should say.
 
Turn The Noise Blanker Off  
by DL4NO on January 23, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
At first instance you might think: "Why does my rig have a noise blanker, if not for mobile use?" From my experience a noise blanker suffers from the narrow bandwidth of the mobile antenna.

Normally a noise blanker mutes the receiver before the noise has reached it. This is possible because the noise blanker acts upon any sharp rise of the antenna voltage. Not much pulse energy reaches the narrow-band (read: slow) IF path.

But if the antenna has a bandwidth of e.g. 50 kHz the noise blanker does not get any impulses and therefore cannot act fast enough.

Therefore I intend to try a separate, active, RX antenna.
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K1XT on January 31, 2010 Mail this to a friend!
"Once again the advice from this man is like the word of God."

Oh, please.... Any and all can be found in any RFI publication. Tear and paste.
 
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Other How To Articles
Measuring a Solid-State PA’s Zs
How to Help in an Emergency...Tools
6-Meter Square Copper Dipole