Give Ham Radio a Break
Morris Jones (WB9SFM)
on
August 12, 2010
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There are Ham Operators that feel the hobby will not last. That the internet will take away those who have researched, practiced and mastered the art of having fun. On the contrary, it is the majority of those Ham Operators who really have a heart for the hobby, that communicate thru storms, act as relays for marathons, transfer weather information for those who need it; I believe our dear Ham Radio will last for some time.
I recently (2010) participated in Field Day with my Ham Radio club only (after finding out I had equipment problems) to find out I was too ashamed to let my fellow hams know I (my portable ham station) could not operate. My heart dropped after all the set up, running wires for power and so forth, I had to tear it all down. I was so excited about preparing for Field day, my spirits were low from the let down.
I am telling this story to tell you my heart is with the "fun of the hobby". I am still learing much about RF and electronics, that is what Amateur Radio is about LEARNING. You never stop learning, those of you that feel Ham Radio is dying because there is no CW, that remote control of Ham Radio stations via the Internet is going a wrong direction for the true purpose communicating...guess what, we as the Ham Community still follow the rules by the book. We are not CB'ers, we are proud of the hobby and it still excites me as if it was the 1st time I saw a Ham operate in 1967; using Colins radio equipment.
Please don't find faults with Hams (like myself) of whom operate possibly with novice like ways, we are trying and it helps to seek help. Give advice when you can, that makes the spirit of a Ham Operator better. Let's make the hobby more of a fun hobby and not find fault with it.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K1CJS on August 12, 2010
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A nice request, but I fear that too many of the long time hams out there who are looking to keep the hobby what it used to be won't listen.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K9CTB on August 12, 2010
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Agreed. A very laudable request and endeavor. Your base point, ham radio is under fire, is correct, but it almost sounds like you want (or expect) all licensed hams to "allow" for ham radio's state. I take a different view.
YOU already made lemonade (the "lemons" being the poor direction and dilution of the hobby by the internet). YOU are taking the steps to embrace an ever-changing hobby regardless the direction. So really, you have no reason to beg other hams to re-devote to the hobby as you do. In short, you've done your part. You still find the magic in ham radio just as if it was 1967. Others won't. And believe me, they're gonna show up here! You can't change that and what's more, you don't have to. I envy you. I envy the idea that you still see the wonderment of that cold night in the dim room with all those tubes and the strange and wonderful sound coming thru the headphones or speaker. You're special. I've been trying to recapture those thoughts and emotions too, unsuccessfully for the most part. But know what? Every so often, that small glimmer appears -- usually at about 0600Z when I talk to that ZL or UA on PSK31 or CW. That glimmer may be as close as I can get, but still, it's worth the BPL hassles, the legitimacy issues of Echolink, or working my below-state-of-the-art rig while Mr. Kalifornia Kilowatt operates his million-dollar station a block away ("roofing filter" issue).
The one part of your point that nobody (imho) can argue with:
If more of the "curmudgeon set" of hams took your attitude, we'd have a whole bunch more kind-hearted hams to talk to! :)
Nice plea sir!!
73,
K9CTB
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by KB2DHG on August 12, 2010
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I know what you are saying and can only say that we ALL have had problems and situstions of dispair in this hobby. As in any hobby or venture there will always be highs and lows... REMEMBER as a hobby goes amateur radio is always a learning experence and to me it is all part of the deal. As long as you do not stress over it, the radio hobby can be a very rewarding one. Through my years as a HAM I have had many situations where equipment trubles have caused me to be off the air BUT I came to realize that these problems caused me to leran even more about the hobby and to use my brain and any means we have to cure the problem. Never feel that you are a novice or not good enough to get through these puit-falls... When a problem arises I look at it as another challenge in the hobby. When I do find the problem and get it fixed I get a real sence of accompleshment. More over when I fix it my self! I only give HAM RADIO a break when I want to, which is hardly ever!
My advice to ALL who enter this hobby... or any hobby for that matter, a hobby is for fun and entertainment... remembering this keep everything in perspective.. when problems arise simply locate people in the hobby and mostly all the time you will be helped....
There is endless means of getting information and in all my problems I was able to research what problems I had and got the problem solved...
One foot note... When a problem arises, always try to remember what was the last thing you did. Case in point, last year there was a thunder storm rolling into my town, As always I disconnect my antennas and un plug my equipment. When I went to get back on the air after the storm I aquired high SWR and basicly could not use my antenna AT ALL? I was frantic, went and took down the antenna to check it which was no small feat! after several inspections and taking the radio and the antenna tuner out to check them out the very last thing I did was to ring out the coax! Of course the very last thing right? I found my problem. It was the very last thing I did before the storm rolled in... When I disconnected the coax,
(prior to the storm) The connector loosened up and caused a ground between the center wire and the ground braded wire. A single strand of the stranded ground wire was toucing the center wire of the coax. A very simple fix was turned into a 2 day venture!
So my friend, do not despair. when a problem arises, stop, re-group your thoughts and take things easy...
Problems are all part of learning and the experence of life...
73 and good DX to you. DE: KB2DHG
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by N6JSX on August 12, 2010
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Your desire is nice, but blaming the internet for HAMdom's demise is naive. Technology, in part, is causing some of our youthful loss. The fascination of radio is all but gone with the advent of Cable TV, Nintendo/Xbox, and cell phones.
The real killer is HAM Big busine$$ itself with the lobbied support of the FCC. Today the Rules are changed solely to gain more potential HAM customers with little regard to the founding purposes of HAM Radio. What happened to incentive licensing? Where did Novice/Advanced licenses go - died. Remember the FCC 220 band rip off - what did they do with that spectrum - FCC sold it off, but got Novice Enhancement that we all enjoy today!@#$%^&*.
Now lets look at our local schools and how they have done away with electronics classes - why? They are low on the school funding priority list and do not fall into the 3 R's. To offset this where is our ARRL/HAM Club(s) adopt-a-school type program to fill in this technology void for our youth? Notta
Yes, some of us go negative due to WE could do so much better but our own self-serving politicized squabbling or HAM busine$$ profits/salaries get in the way. We are reaping what we sow!
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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The basic assumption here is that amateur radio is actually dying. I wonder what the actual worldwide *per capita* rate of licensed amateurs is and has been over the years. AFAIK there is no authoritative data on the subject.
73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NY7Q on August 12, 2010
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It's too late for me. Tired of all the CBrs and sick of all the cussing and like on the freqs.
Tired of day wonders that are now extraclass ops, that, don't have a clue about radio/electronics.
Sold all my equipment and everything related to ham radio recently.
I am just a "sick of it all" ole CW op going away.
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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With all due respect Larry, I think your answer to the question "I would like to try the following new things in ham radio in the next 10 years..." in your profile says more about you disinterest in the hobby that any external reason.
Back to my question - I wonder about the basic premise here. Of course the hobby is graying - the population in this country is graying. I would expect that the ham radio subset would reflect that.
Another country heard from.
73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by IZ4KBS on August 12, 2010
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Even if today we have cars and airplanes, people still use bicycles, as well as their own feet, so I don't see how the Internet could take hamradio over.
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by N6JSX on August 12, 2010
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CB is actually clean compared to LA AREA 2m, Chicago, and other large population HAM masses.
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by W5GNB on August 12, 2010
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I cannot get as serious about leaving the hobby as NY7Q has stated but I certainly have reduced my time spent on the hobby.
I have been licensed for Fifty years and that may be part of my issues with Ham Radio, too many changes and remembering the good-old-days when things were really Ham Radio to me.
I have seen disasterous changes over the years such as the ARRL "Incentive Licensing" and the bandplan changes back in the Sixties that, in my opinion was the start of the end of Ham Radio.
The socalled "Amateur Exam" is nothing more than a sad joke these days with no requirement for any technical knowledge or skills. Anyone who can breathe can be an EXTRA class within a few hours and are then allowed to demonstrate thier ignorance on the ham bands.
The mindset of ham today is much like the CBers back years ago. It is all about Public Service, parades, foot races, Saving the WORLD, and lets not forget the GodAwful CONTESTING Crap EVERY WEEKEND.
I do manage to squeeze in a good CW qso now and then but it sure is nothing like the years past when we had competent operators and folks who really got into the learning part of Ham Radio.
Fortunately, I have other hobbies that I enjoy so I do not dwell on the OLD DAYS quite so much.
73's
Gary - W5GNB
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by KJ4OTU on August 12, 2010
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It's not "dying" as far as numbers....
All the license stats you could ask for:
http://ah0a.org/FCC/index.html
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by W3LK on August 12, 2010
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD4TOQ on August 12, 2010
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I have been a Ham since about 1973. I have heard this same sort of comment every two or three years.....Ham radio is dead, Ham radio is dying, blank will be the death of Ham radio, and on and on. However, it has never happened, Ham radio is still here, still being innovative, still learning. There is room in Ham radio for very interest, every couple of years there is a new mode or system to be learned. I personally don't care much for echo link or IRLP, but I enjoy operating my TS2000 with a laptop running Ham Radio Deluxe. No one has to comply with another's idea of what you should be doing in Ham radio. The whole idea is to be able to enjoy the hobby the way you want to. There is nothing wrong with Ham radio, it is peoples attitudes that are bad.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KT8DX on August 12, 2010
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Been licenced since I was 15 in 1976. Ham radio back then for me was social, exotic, mysterious, and full of positive minded older hams who truly enjoyed mentoring young obnoxious hams such as myself. I was one of the "novice" licensees who were somewhat looked down upon because of our license class back then.
My friends and I would have sleepovers and operate CW into the wee hours of the morning when the bands finally died. Our 25 dollar SX-28 and 50 dollar DX-100's would become superheated, especially since we never really matched our antennas all that well. I remember distinctly the red-orange glow of those 6146's when the DX-100 whined in agony because we spent too much time tuning up!
My little group's best mentors back then were a gentleman who was in his 80's and had lost a leg to diabetes. Another was a retired lineman. I marvelled at his modern TS-820s and vowed to own a rig like that. These guys were still excited about their hobby, excited to pass it along to us teenagers, and never ever did I hear a negative word about ham radio or other hams! It was all about the art and science of the hobby and we loved it.
We also learned about life through these men. One lost his wife of many years to cancer and we saw him go through the pain and agony of that. The gentleman with diabetes had to pee in a bottle because he couldn't make it up the stairs with one leg fast enough. We were somewhat horrified by these things at the time, but as I am in my 50th year now, I understand these things now and am grateful for having know them and being able to see how they met their challenges with grace and matter-of-factness.
I have 4 boys, 3 of whom are grown up. None of them are hams. Even though we have clubs nearby, there simply wasn't enough interest to have them get involved. Even though I enjoy the company of the hams I know, none of them (myself included) really represent what I remember about my elmers when I was growing up.
We have a long way to go as a hobby. Might I suggest a few ideas:
1. Be leaders and exemplars to the youngsters and beginners in our hobby. Not just ham radio leaders - but leaders in the hobby of life.
2. Be classy in all that we do, in what we say, and the way we conduct ourselves. This applies to on the air activities as well as activities on the web and in person.
3. Spend time operating, rather than reading about ham radio on the internet or elsewhere. Or endlessly buying and selling equipment on ebay. As true motorcyclists say, its about the ride, not about the bike.
4. Finally, if you go to a hamfest, please bathe. Seriously. No one wants to see dirty people in a public setting. Young people are particulary attuned to this, and seeing a bunch of scuzzy guys poring over ham radio stuff isn't a pretty picture of what these kids or other outsiders to our hobby want to see. Hope I haven't offended anyone here.
As I enter my 35th year in the hobby, I think I'll start doing more of these things. Anyone up for 7.040 tonight?
Respectfully, KT8DX
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD4TOQ on August 12, 2010
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Most people don't even know why we used to have to learn CW to get a ticket. It had nothing to do with Ham radio. It was so Hams could communicate with ships at sea during emergencies. Ships don't even have radio rooms or communication officers any more. the use sat nav.
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by KB2FCV on August 12, 2010
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The hobby is what you make of it. It's still here so I make the most out of it. I like everything from collecting Vintage radio to DX'ing, CW, QRP, experimenting with SDR, or even my latest project, moonbounce. There are so many things to get into with the hobby that it never gets old. If you get tired of one thing in the hobby, move on to something else. There is always something new to try.
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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KJ4OTU Wrote:
"It's not "dying" as far as numbers....
All the license stats you could ask for:
http://ah0a.org/FCC/index.html "
Thanks for the link but actually that site does not have the numbers I am looking for, namely, world wide *per capita* rates of amateurs from say 1960 to 2010.
Just because there are more licenses today than in 1960 doesn't mean much. I was able to get this from your link:
678,472 hams in the US on 6/1997
694,119 hams in the US on 6/2010
That gives us:
one ham per 398 people in the US in 1997
one ham per 432 people in the US in 2010
Not hardly an alarming decline and that is only in the US. Not worldwide. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that the number of hams *per capita* worldwide is increasing given the economic realities these days.
Another country heard from,
73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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by WI7B on August 12, 2010
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I am not berating your plea, only how Amateur Radio is evolving. As you say,
"...it is the majority of those Ham Operators who really have a heart for the hobby, that communicate thru storms, act as relays for marathons, transfer weather information for those who need it."
That, unfortunately, encapsulates the practice of Amateur Radio today. But there are five fundamental principles, not one.
In the rush to evolve Amateur Radio into an emergency radio service or public radio service, the majority of hams do not fulfill the basis and purpose of the Amateur Radio Service. Now we have paid employee acting on behalf of their employers in communication drills within the Amateur Radio Service. Is this really the hobby you want or the hobby you want?
73,
---* Ken
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by W5HTW on August 12, 2010
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Someone tell me how and when we became HAM?
Are some of us BACON? Any of us CHEESE?
If so, we just need BREAD to make a decent sandwich.
Ed
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by W5HTW on August 12, 2010
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Almost all of the changes in amateur radio, that we old timers deem as negative, came from the FCC's desire to lighten its load, to disentangle itself from amateur radio. Incentive Licensing was the last step the FCC made to get itself MORE involved in amateur radio. From then, it has been a downhill race. Some of the steps taken, not in order.
eliminating logging.
eliminating the need to notify the FCC when operating out of district,
eliminating the two year in grade requirement to sit for the Amateur Extra Class.
Creating the peer testing system, the VE system
Ceasing to monitor amateur radio or perform enforcement
Stopping new Novices and new Advanced (Of course, they stopped issuing Advanced before Incentive Licensing, but began again in 1967 as part of the 'step up' process of upgrading.
The FCC wants out of amateur radio. They have one goal today and that is cell phones. They will do just enough to satisfy international requirements. That is, in fact, why they kept the code testing for so long, because it was required internationally. As soon as that requirement went away, they dropped it, first to 5 wpm, and then entirely.
With this disinterest in amateur radio, the FCC has sort of allowed us to manage ourselves. Well, it always did, to some extent, but we were sure better managers back when we thought deliberate interference and playing music and cursing on the air was not something a good ham would do. We don't think that way anymore. We have retrained ourselves to mimic CB. The reasons are many, I suppose, but the reasons don't matter; we have done it.
As an Old Timer, licensed continuously since June 1956, I have seen many major and many minor changes in amateur radio. Some were good. Expansion of the 40 meter phone band from 7200 down to 7150 was probably a good move, for example, as was a similar expansion on 20 meters. I didn't mind Incentive Licensing, as it was the push I needed to learn more electronics, even though I was working at the time as an HF radio op/tech for the US government. It pushed me to 'achieve,' a word that is a very negative term today.
I suppose changes are good or bad depending upon one's viewpoint, certainly. Incentive Licensing certainly was viewed by thousands as bad. To me one of the more serious 'mistakes' was the elimination of the Novice license as the entry level ticket.
I am guessing the FCC will take action in the not too distant future to eliminate classes of license. I think that would be a wise move. We don't need classes any longer in today's ham radio (not HAM - I use Tobasco on ham) They serve no purpose whatsoever. Certainly none of the licenses require or demonstrate any great achievement. And perhaps they shouldn't. It's a cotton pickin' hobby. Who cares? So if the FCC decides to do that, I am all for it.
Another thing the FCC might do, as soon as international regulations at the WRC-12 may permit it, is eliminate any form of technical testing. Remember the old "CB Test?" (I mean in the sixties) It was a form you filling out and mailed to the FCC. It stated you had read the rules, had a copy of them, and would abide by them. That's it. The CB radio 'test.' I could see amateur radio going to that level as well, though I think some form of texting on safety, such as don't string your dipole across power lines, might be in order. And what are the band edges? Beyond that, throw it open to all.
Ed
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by W5HTW on August 12, 2010
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New subject!
Is ham radio (not HAM) dying? No, but it is getting older. The demographics could probably show that most active hams, those with an interest in ham radio and not just in being a police auxilliary, are in the over-40 group.
It is truly difficult today, more than ever before, to recruit youngsters (teenagers) into amateur radio. There are far too many distractions. Teenagers have changed since the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And, yes, the internet is part of it. But not all. Do you know a teen who does not have a cell phone? I don't think I do. Do you know a teen who isn't text messaging every minute he is awake? Do you know a teen who is not constantly downloading music, and/or playing computer games?
Probably the personal computer was the first step in distracting teenagers from the simple life. When I was a teen I, too, had distractions. A car, a girl friend, a guitar, a tv, and in the summer, mowing lawns. Those distractions absolutely But teens today have continuous distractions from the moment they get out of bed until they get back into it, and often well beyond that.
Teens are not technically inclined. That's a general statement, and there are exceptions, but most teens "want it right now" (just as adults do) and do not want to have to take any time to study for anything, except perhaps their school subjects. Or for the driver's license test. To be interested in amateur radio, at least the way it was, one needs a sense of technical inquisitiveness. Without it, they will just roll on by.
The pre-teens tend to be, in general, less inclined to stick with it. Some get licenses, but by the time they have grown a bit they have found new interests.
We do have a lot of 30-somethings, and that's good. They will be around another 30-40 years. Most of those interested in some aspect of amateur radio beyond EMCOM will stick with it. Things are changing rapidly in the EMCOM arena though, and a lot of these who got a license to play EMCOM are, or will be, hanging up the radios, as they find they simply are not needed, and often, not welcomed.
So the hobby is changing, as it always has. If it could be termed as dying, it still has years and years ahead of it. And many changes to come. Even those in their 20s and 30s can probably look forward to some sort of amateur radio still being here when they turn 70. It won't be like it is today, it won't be like it ever was, and it may not please them very much, but it will be here.
Ed
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by WADE on August 12, 2010
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When will the taps be played? This sounds like a funeral parlor.
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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Ed wrote:
"Is ham radio (not HAM) dying? No, but it is getting older."
But so is the population at large, so wouldn't one reasonably expect the subset of radio amateurs to reflect that overall shift?
73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC5GB on August 12, 2010
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Amateur radio has been dying since the first time I heard a QSO in 1951...usually due to the same reasons: no youth involvement, loss of tech skills(appliance ops), too difficult, increasing costs, grumpy old men, LIDS, etc., etc.
But hamming is still with us, albeit in a slightly different form. I for one embrace the internet and computers for my radio use. This technology enhances rather than displaces my enjoyment.
I believe the hobby will be around as long as those who are a part of it have a welcoming and patient attitude with newcomers, and take the time to show and tell other people about the magic of radio.
As an aside, I would like to see a required 'novice' operating period. This would give new ops a chance to learn the ropes without fear of retribution or ridicule by the aforementioned grumpy old men and their ilk.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K9CTB on August 12, 2010
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"...Others won't. And believe me, they're gonna show up here!"
See what I mean?
73,
K9CTB
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by A22EW on August 12, 2010
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i disagree; it is up to us to keep this going. While internet is here it does NOT pose a threat to amateur radio; both are different forms of communication. Amateur radio is a hobby to explore radio communications. In order to support the internet, the logistics to put it in place are huge. Now, with amateur radio, swing over a wire over a tree (literally speaking) and with a basic radio transceiver be able to get an hf signal into another continent.
A couple of kids dropped by to visit my kids; they were curious on this hobby and i took them down to the shack. After a quick qso, their surprise and astonishment that you can have a qso across the globe; i had a globe to show them how the signal went.
There is always hope. It is not about CW/CBer/Internet. It is about us to promote and encourage this hobby to the next generation.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K1CJS on August 12, 2010
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>>With this disinterest in amateur radio, the FCC has sort of allowed us to manage ourselves. Well, it always did, to some extent, but we were sure better managers back when we thought deliberate interference and playing music and cursing on the air was not something a good ham would do. We don't think that way anymore. We have retrained ourselves to mimic CB. The reasons are many, I suppose, but the reasons don't matter; we have done it.<<
So one person thinks, and there are some hams who HAVE done so. But there are many more that have strived to continue what ham radio was--a personal communication hobby, for the sheer enjoyment of it.
Of course, there are also the purists that shun ANY change--especially those who rail about the dropping of the code requirement. There are the EmComm bunch that want to remake ham radio into a quasi-official adjunct to public service emergency communications. There are the people who think that contesting is the only thing ham radio is for, and the ones who operate QRP and protest about high power stations who blank out their low power enjoyment.
If we all just tried to get along--LIKE WE USED TO IN THE PAST--maybe ham radio would be better for it. WAIT----there is no maybe about it, it WOULD be better for it.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K6LHA on August 12, 2010
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Amateur radio is constantly EVOLVING. To be a part of it requires individuals to EVOLVE WITH IT.
Evolution is constant in nearly every part of life, especially so in a technology-oriented activity such as amateur radio.
I don't think that amateur radio is "dying," only those who demand that it ALWAYS STAY THE SAME. That can't happen in technology but some put on blinders of emotionally-induced nostalgia and wish for the past to always remain.
73, Len K6LHA (age 77)
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K8YZK on August 12, 2010
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Is ham radio dying? I don't think so, but I do feel there are a lot of hams that don't get on the air, be it HF or VHF. 2 meters here in the Detroit, well one repeater sounds like Channel 19, also so many repeaters around but none are being used.
Testing, well the FCC and ARRL have decided to dumb down the requirements and like others have said, if you can breathe,read and memorize the test you to can be an Extra in a day. An Extra is not like it use to be.
Example, was listening to one of the many nets on, this one work the us net for WAS. A new general class ham was asked to give the other ham his signal report. The new General came back with your are 6x9, when asked again to repeat it, he said the same thing 6x9. Someone had to tell him that was not valid, and told him how to give the report. Where was this guys elmer, in a book that must not have been to good.
Kurt
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by VE3LXL on August 12, 2010
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I think it's fair to say that for anything one ham does, another ham will think it's killing the hobby.
And it's also fair to say that that second ham will broadcast his opinion of the first ham's activities as loudly and angrily as possible.
So, sadly, I think the plea to give ham radio a break will fall on deaf ears.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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Kurt wrote:
"Testing, well the FCC and ARRL have decided to dumb down the requirements and like others have said, if you can breathe,read and memorize the test you to can be an Extra in a day. An Extra is not like it use to be.
Example, was listening to one of the many nets on, this one work the us net for WAS. A new general class ham was asked to give the other ham his signal report. The new General came back with your are 6x9..."
Kurt;
Were signal reports *ever* covered in the FCC tests?
Most everything important I learned was after I actually built a station and got on the air. Fortunately for me I learned it from patient people who were more interested in helping me learn than in being right.
73 de Eric, KG6MZS (one of the last code Generals)
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB2DHG on August 12, 2010
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One more note, I failed to mention as far as HAM RADIOs demise... Our kids of today do not find science and technical endvors interesting. There is no wonder in it for them. They rather play sports or listen to that rapp crap than learn about the wonders of radio...
They want everything handed over to them on a silver platter and not work for it. Take a test? No way!
Yes, computers did take away a lot form the hobby if that is how you want to look at it BUT for me incorporating the computer with the hobby has made it even more fun!
It is all how you look at it... To me Amateur Radio is fantastic and I never tire of it. I am learning more and more every day and even as long as I have been into it, over 23 years I am still trying new things and have not done it all...
Amateur Radio is my most relaxing rewarding hobby it is just a shame that the younger generation does not see it!
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NB1R on August 12, 2010
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The hobby is what it is - naturally it has evolved and continues to evolve with technology and the times.
It is what you make of it. Will it last forever? Who knows - probably not. Does that matter? I don't think so.
In the big scheme of things we only have today. We can't live in the past nor the future. So enjoy operating to the fullest just for today.
Ciao,
NB1R
James
Lexington
MA
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by G0GQK on August 12, 2010
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Seems to me that you're suffering from depresion. All electronic equipment breaks down at some time but feeling ashamed that it happened is taking the problem to extremes. What would you do if you were taking a bride to her wedding 20 miles away and the car broke down ? Take a gun and finish yourself off ?
As for suggesting that the internet is affecting ham radio. If there were as many hams as internet users people would be jumping off buildings in frustration because they wouldn't a free frequency ! Cheer up, you're only here once !
G0GQK
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WB9SFM on August 12, 2010
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I am glad you, as the Amateur Radio community feels I struck a nerve. I never implied that Ham Radio is dying. On the contrary, I am only inferring that that Ham Op's should be a bit more friendly with one another and not find faults with the hobby. It is my wish that Ham Radio stays healthy for years to come and I will make it my duty to instill positive values to the youth regarding the hobby.
Amateur Radio is great and I love participating in anything the hobby wishes to develop.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KG4QPQ on August 12, 2010
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Wow! Reading all this was, well sort of depressing. LOL
Ham radio isn't dying it's changing, evolving as technology evolves. I absolutely love this hobby. I love that there are so many areas to explore.
When I come across operators who don't know the basics or electronics, I do my best to help them learn.
If you want to attract more young people, don't be afraid to show your enthusiasm. Share the wonder of all the worlds to explore.
Amateur Radio will never die. Fifty years from now those of us around today may not recognize it, but it will be there for as long as an antenna will propagate a signal.
Just my two cents. Thanks for the original post. We need to concentrate on the positive.
73
Louis
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by G3LBS on August 12, 2010
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Come on guys and dolls your problem is that ham radio is not a way of life it is life itself, and that it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive. You would get more fun building a dollar field strength meter than losing interest in your Christmas roofing filter. W2/G3LBS/M
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N4KC on August 12, 2010
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Amateur radio is in far worse shape on web sites, in forums, and on reflectors on the Internet than it is on the air. Spend more time there and less time reading and reacting to all this doom and gloom and you'll see what I mean.
73,
Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KF5EGM on August 12, 2010
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Wow. Everything changes with time. Get over it and stop throwing a temper tantrum. Inflamatory? A little. Do some hams need to hear this? Obviously so.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD8MJR on August 12, 2010
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My perspective may be a little different
At 14 years old I was introduced to CB and had lots of fun with that for about 3 or 4 years; basicaly till I went into College. I have been an Electronic Engineer for 25+ Years and counting and during that time I have mostly dealt with computers and the latest technology, so three years ago when the subject of becoming a Ham came up by my brother, my first reaction was Pfffft that’s old stuff !
After looking at an AES catalog my interest from 30 years ago was totally renewed! I realized I loved Ham radio gear, I had just forgotten! I looked at those rigs in the catalog every night for a week and remembered how as a kid I salivated at them, all those knobs, all those dials and buttons and just how grand a 100 watts might be when you only had 5.
I realized just how much these where the stuff of Dreams for a 14 year old CBer. Now as a middle aged adult I could afford something I had forgotten.
I have had my ticket over a year now and I am having so much fun working DX and learning stuff that I can’t imagine a time when I would not have a radio close by. My only concern for Ham Radio is these Digital Radios like DStar etc. they seem to be diluting the Fun of what Ham radio is all about. For me, I like tuning, tweaking and having fun listening for the hard ones. The day that it becomes all 59’s is the day I pack my bags and go back to the Internet for my evening entertainment.
If your worried about Ham radio going extinct, don't be. There are thousands of people just like me who had a taste of CB as a Kid or knew a Ham operator growing up like my brother did and even today we still have aspiring Hams working 11 meters, it's a certainty that out of all those people, there will always be a good percentage who will crave the Dream of owning an HF station and becoming a licensed radio operator.
IMO the only part of Ham that will go extinct is the type of Ham who believes his or her
Stature as an operator makes them superior, I get how they feel because in the days when they got licensed it was a symbol of being in an elite group of technical people but that aspect of it is most likely over, there is just so many other area’s that can define a persons skill level today.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W4EPA on August 12, 2010
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Been a ham for over 57 years and can say honestly this has been a real trip. Getting new friends, DX contacts and doing and receiving favors from fellow hams has been great. No we wont be forgotten by the internet. There is to much activity and fun to give any credence to this hobby ever going down. So get a kid involved. Yea NOW. A lot of the fun is showing others how and learning how in itself. 73 all and good dx.
Jim W4EPA
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Amateur Radio is Resilient
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by AI2IA on August 12, 2010
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Ham radio is tough. It has beed around now longer than most of us. It can take it.
Let all hams speak their minds. Discussion provokes progress. Don't block the path of inquiry with censorship. Let old crabs and negative hams have their say, then you have yours. Give and take. Contrast and compare. Old myths and new myths mingle with solid facts and calm reasoning. Let the wise and objective sought them out. There is no separating fools from their folly.
Ham radio is tougher than we are. It can take.
Censorship is for wimps. - Ray Mullin, ai2ia
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 12, 2010
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Somebody asked about the number of hams compared to the total population.
Here are some numbers previously posted by W5ESE:
The columns are:
US population
number of US hams
growth over the previous decade
ratio of hams to population at the start of each
decade from 1930.
Thanks to W5ESE for the pre-2010 info. (# of hams is
of individuals and does not include grace-period licenses) 2010 numbers are as of today
Year Population Hams Growth Ratio
1930 123,202,624 19,000 6,484 to 1
1940 132,164,569 56,000 +194% 2,361 to 1
1950 151,325,798 87,000 +55% 1,739 to 1
1960 179,323,175 230,000 +164% 780 to 1
1970 203,211,926 263,918 +15% 770 to 1
1980 226,545,805 393,353 +49% 576 to 1
1990 248,709,873 502,677 +28% 495 to 1
2000 281,421,906 682,240 +36% 412 to 1
2010 309,975,184 693,865 +1.7% 446 to 1
(hopefully that will stay formatted)
Note that the decade of greatest percentage growth was the 1930s.
Until 2000, the decade of least percentage growth was the 1960s.
Also note that while per-capita growth was almost nil during the 1960s, it took off during the 1970s - even though "incentive licensing" went into effect in 1968/69.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W7ETA on August 12, 2010
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"Let's make the hobby more of a fun hobby and not find fault with it."
Its always been FUN for me.
Many times I wonder about people complaining that other ops don't operate they way the complainer thinks they should?
I just keep operating the way I think I should, and have FUN playing radio.
When I first got phone privileges, there were angry ops complaining about new ops. Ops complaining that people didn't build their own gear. Ops complaining that my 25 over S-9 was too wide in their receiver, etc, etc.
Soon antenna season will roll around, Oct--more FUN "straight up ahead".
73
Bob
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by AE6YB on August 12, 2010
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quote KD4TOQ
"I have heard this same sort of comment every two or three years.....Ham radio is dead, Ham radio is dying, blank will be the death of Ham radio, and on and on. However, it has never happened, Ham radio is still here, still being innovative, still learning. There is room in Ham radio for very interest, every couple of years there is a new mode or system to be learned. I personally don't care much for echo link or IRLP, but I enjoy operating my TS2000 with a laptop running Ham Radio Deluxe. No one has to comply with another's idea of what you should be doing in Ham radio. The whole idea is to be able to enjoy the hobby the way you want to. There is nothing wrong with Ham radio, it is peoples attitudes that are bad." quote
You have it exactly right. I agree completely.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KG6MZS on August 12, 2010
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Thanks Jim, N2EY - interesting. Wish we had the worldwide numbers. It wouldn't surprise me if, while growth has slowed in the states, it has increased worldwide.
73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KH6DC on August 12, 2010
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Well if you lived in Honolulu and called me, I would have been there no questions asked to help get you up and running. That's what I think is fun along with rag chewing, contesting is to troubleshoot and help other hams.
73, Delwyn KH6DC
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 13, 2010
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In the beginning, there were radio amateurs, who were simply folks who put transmitters on the air just to see what could be done with them. Except it was called "wireless" then; "radio" would come later.
Whatever those early amateurs could get on the air, they used, from a Ford spark coil to several kilowatts into a rotary. They used whatever wavelength they deemed best, or which worked for them.
Then came 1912, mandatory licensing and testing, Government assigned callsigns, banishment to the "useless" waves below 200 meters, and a 1000 watt input limit.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams became more organized, the ARRL was founded, and amazing things were done on those "useless" waves.
Then came World War I, which shut down amateur radio completely. Equipment sealed up, sometimes confiscated, Antennas lowered to the ground. Not even receivers permitted. ARRL disbanded, QST publication stopped. Many hams went to war - more than a few never returned. And when the Armistice came, there were powerful folks who wanted amateur radio to just go away.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams reorganized, the ARRL was reborn, Congress petitioned and lobbied into letting hams back on the air in 1919.
Then came Broadcasting, interference, and quiet hours. The end of King Spark and the move to the short-waves.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams learned new techniques, achieved worldwide DX, and became truly international.
Then came the 1929 regulations, which drastically reduced the amateur bands and increased the technical requirements of amateur stations. Right on its heels came the Great Depression, with millions out of work, fortunes and savings lost, desperation everywhere.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams developed better techniques using less-expensive parts.
Then came World War 2, another shut-down. Many hams went off to war - and again more than a few never came back.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams picked up where they'd left off, aided by wartime developments and military-surplus.
Then came Television, and the Tennessee Valley Indians. Quiet hours for some, frustration for many, as manufacturers did incredibly dumb things such as 21 Mc. IFs in TV sets, no shielding, no high-pass filters. Hams weren't completely innocent either; rigs that put out harmonics or other spurs could tear up the TV channels for quite a ways around.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams learned how to build rigs that put out really clean RF, how to install filters on TV sets, etc.
Then came Sputnik, incentive licensing, cb, Vietnam, the space race and the counter-culture. Ham radio was definitely "square" and not "hip". US ham radio manufacturers began shutting down, and imported rigs began to take over.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams learned how to pass the tests and get the higher-class licenses, how to set up repeaters, how to bring new people in.
Then came PCs, cell phones, the internet, and "wireless" - a term so old it was new again. There were more and more homes where an outside antenna was banned, too.
Some said it would be the death of amateur radio - but it wasn't. Instead hams adapted, using the new technologies alongside the old.
Amateur radio has been around for more than 100 years. In 2012, we will have had mandatory licensing of amateurs for 100 years. Yet we're still here - and still growing.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KA2DDX on August 13, 2010
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Interesting thoughts and follow up comments. What I have observed is that as the world changes, amateur radio changes also. Not always in sync with everything else but a real evolution none the less.
e.g. when computers first came on to the scene (I was an early computer dealer) most hams stayed away from them, probably due to the high costs at the time. Now-a-days most hams have a computer and are pretty astute in their usage.
When digital modes came on to the scene (remember packet radio?) most hams ignored them. Now, we have all kinds of modes and many hams developing new modes and software to work with this stuff.
We can say similar things about satellite operation, repeaters, and numerous other things.
So, it appears to me that as a group worldwide we evolve and adapt pretty well.
The internet didn't kill amateur radio, it enhances our use of radio in a number of ways.
So, after being licensed over 48 years I am still excited and optimistic.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K6XR on August 13, 2010
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I have been licensed since June 1, 1955. It was an exciting service that i enjoyed immensely. The last fifteen years has seen a gradual change in ham radio that has not resulted in that same enthusiasm as previous years. I can just look at the radio (and I have a new one) but don't find the motivation to turn it on except for a traffic net in the evening. I spend 80 percent of my leisure time on the internet and social networks. Ham radio is not as friendly as it once was. 599 tu is not where it is. wx is...name is... wife just called 73! is not where it is...honey stop by the store....(2 meter ham cell phone...)
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K1DA on August 13, 2010
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There is still a fair amount of good operating around....on CW and offbeat bands like 17 meters. Some of the popular phone bands are filled with people with their own pages in the DSM 4. Apparently those who spew think they are accomplishing something. Nope, too easy for others to spin the dial. Still, cheaper than a shrink, I suppose.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WB9SFM on August 13, 2010
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Most of you are not getting the point I am making. I believe Amateur Radio WILL last! I am not trying to say the hobby is "dying". It isn't! I am acting as a booster for future Ham Radio operators, the hobby is still great fun and exciting. There are so many directions to go with Ham radio( designing/building gear...satellite uplinking...repeater usage...CW...PSK31...and on and on),it's yours for the taking. I repeated the term FUN throughout my text, no one took that for fact.
I am only giving our hobby a positive nudge...that's all!!!!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NK6Q on August 13, 2010
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I thought I'd throw my two cents into the ring. Please note that these are just my opinions, not supported by any hard data or statistics.
Here's the first penny:
Throughout most of the 20th century, radio communication, as hams practiced it, was cutting edge. For example, even morse was a viable form of communication up through the 60's, maybe even into the 70's. With the advent of personal computers, email, cell phones, text messaging, and the internet, one of the principal attractions of ham radio, realtime person-to-person communication, was accessible to almost everyone. The "mystique" of ham radio had been overshadowed.
second penny:
One reason ham radio, electronics, and technology was supported and promoted by education and government was the Cold War, especially after Sputnik. Grade-school kids were encouraged to study the "hard" sciences in order to breed the next generation of scientists who could go toe-to-toe with the Soviet Union. With the demise of the Soviet Union and the decline of the "domino theory" communist threat, as well as the general decline of funding for public schooling, the conscious push for most technology-based education has fallen by the wayside.
I confess that my recent return to ham radio is as much to do with nostalgia and my desire to relive some of the pastimes of my youth. I don't think ham radio will be going away any time in the near future, but we can also be aware of its significance in technological and political history.
Again, just my two cents. No flaming, please.
73
Bill in Pasadena
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W2NLS on August 13, 2010
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Ed -- A very nice post but just one thing: Please don't blame the FCC for Incentive Licensing. That was the ARRL all the way. The FCC did not suggest it let alone require it. The ARRL, at that time, totally ignored the majority of their members' views and steamrollered a plan that immediately cut down on the number of applicants and licensees. Since those dark days the ARRL has become more responsive to their members but in those days they were controlled by a cabal of elitists. Certainly we have more problems today from the Internet to poor operating techniques. But if we had started with a base of members two to more times what we had when the Internet was developing we might now be in better shape. I still believe, as I did then, that almost all of the technical questions for ham radio licensees should be dropped and instead the test should be sitting down in front of a mock-up ham radio and passing emergency traffic, demonstrating a grasp of Q signals and reacting to poorer ops. Very few people (hams or otherwise) today want or need to build a radio or even to understand why it works. Why do we insist that ham radio operators need to be so technically proficient? They perhaps need to demonstrate enough electronic knowledge that we can be pretty sure they won't electrocute themselves or others and maybe can put up a decent wire antenna. But the heart of ham radio is using radio to communicate in an intelligent and friendly manner and to be there if needed by the community. And, let's face it Contests. How many thousands of fine, potential ham radio ops have we lost in all these years because we want them to know things most will never use in all of their lives? In fact, stuff most of US have never used! And before someone makes the obvious accusations against me -- I am an Amateur Extra licensee, I was a top Editor at an Electronics-oriented magazine and have used, enjoyed and understood electronics my whole life. But I also like chocolate and don't think that those who like vanilla should be barred from my ice cream parlor.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD8DUG on August 13, 2010
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I have heard several times that the ham test for extra class is a joke,only takes a cople of hours to learn and pass the test,I now have the general class licence,I have been working on my extra class for over a year now,so much to learn [not memorize but learn} also,when all else fails[due to EMP weather man made or natural]alot of us hams will still be able to communicate. The more advanced things become the more fragile,and prone to failure they become,the internet,cell phones,computers,ect. I like this hobby!!! However I think of it as more than just a hobby ,it could be alife saver. 73 KD8DUG
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W5DQ on August 13, 2010
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Hey Lon W3LK, in case you haven't heard ...... 'the sky is falling!' :)
Gene W5DQ
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD5KJD on August 13, 2010
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I love this hobby almost as much as my other hobbies (too many to count and afford at the present time). What really chafes me is the image we put out there when we try to show off our great hobby and someone within the fold opens his/her mouth and shoots us all in the foot.
Case in point: I was showing off the open repeater system to my brother, a prospective ham. As I was about to explain the system to him a call came over from a fellow ham trying out his new speaker mic for his HT. Before I could get my hand on my mic and give him a response, one of ever so helpful 'hams' responded with, as God is my witness.... "You're wall to wall and tree top tall! Knock the knobs off and leave where it is! It's makin' the trip for ya!" My brother laughed so hard during the next few minutes I doubted he'd ever breathe normally again. Wiping a tear from his eye, he said, "Are you serious? You want me and the ENTIRE family to be a part of THAT?!?!" "I could just as easily be on Channel 19!"
I was dumbfounded. And I wonder why people look at our hobby with such disdain... My other brother, Cesar KE5ZQL, and I have yet to convince our brother to get licensed. Maybe one day. I did explain to him that there are a few folks out here yet to appreciate a proper radio etiquette. He just nods and laughs to himself.
73!
Luis KD5KJD
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K5CPF on August 13, 2010
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Originally licensed in 1984, I have recently decided to get back into the hobby after a 10 year absence.
This is the same FUD I heard back then.
Chill, folks, it's a hobby; not a religion.
This hobby means different things to different people and is flexible enough to accomodate all.
Quit taking your ideas of what the hobby used to be or should be so seriously, stop your desire to impose those ideas on others and let the people that enjoy it... enjoy it.
In other words: lighten up. :)
My 2 cents.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N4KC on August 13, 2010
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Well said, K5CPF. And welcome back.
You know, I wonder how many of those who rant and rave about how easy the Extra exam is could actually pass it without studying. Or at all.
Like the ones who bemoan CW no longer being required. How many of them could actually copy 13 WPM?
CPF says it. It's a hobby. Some love EMCOMM. Others contest and chase DX. Many love the technical side. A heck of a lot of us like many aspects. Relax. Enjoy the part you enjoy the most.
And, as I said above, spend more time on the air and less here and you may see that there are plenty of interesting folks to talk with and lots of new things to learn out there on the bands.
BTW: I think we can ascribe much of the malaise about our hobby to people who have a tough time handling change of any kind. It is a verifiable psychological condition. And these forums give those folks a place to express that discontent.
eHam is therapeutic!
73 and see you on the air,
Don Keith N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com (a blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its effect on media, society and amateur radio)
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by AD6KA on August 13, 2010
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N4KC Said:
"BTW: I think we can ascribe much of the malaise about our hobby to people who have a tough time handling change of any kind. It is a verifiable psychological condition. And these forums give those folks a place to express that discontent."
A perceptive and accurate observation.
I agree completely.
73, Ken AD6KA/5R8GQ
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K8QV on August 13, 2010
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Too many people worry about what everybody else is doing. And that's not just limited to the radio hobby.
Do what you like and don't worry about the other guy. Sure, it's so easy to get licensed now the hobby attracts many who know nothing about radio, and really don't even want to learn. There are exceptions, of course.
Still, whether you want to work satellites, be a disaster maven, play with the latest digital toy, or use a straight key and xtal controlled homebrew rig to make contacts - you can! Help the people who want help, and have some fun and quit bitching.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WT3G on August 13, 2010
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Keeping the hobby "what it used to be" really isn't that hard, nor should it be written off. All it takes is for ham radio operators to remember the roots of our hobby: the friendship between hams that comes from operating in good faith, and at least a touch of the science and art of radio and electronics experimentation. Sorry, but ... Screw the "public service" part of the current social climate.
Will I help out in an emergency? You bet. Do I do things that keep my operating skillset current? Yes!!! However, I do not operate my station with the idea of "public service" or the "public interest" in mind. THAT is a side-effect of what we do!
It is time we started looking at the roots of who we are and what we do. Get out of the "public service" mindset that is all too prevalent, and remember that our hobby is supposed to be fun!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 13, 2010
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W2NLS wrtites:
"Please don't blame the FCC for Incentive Licensing. That was the ARRL all the way. The FCC did not suggest it let alone require it. The ARRL, at that time, totally ignored the majority of their members' views and steamrollered a plan that immediately cut down on the number of applicants and licensees."
Sorry, that's just not true. FCC was for incentive licensing. So were a lot of hams. What the majority wanted is unknown because there were no referendums taken at the time.
The ARRL wasn't the only one involved, either. There were at least 10 other proposals given RM numbers by FCC back then. What we know as "incentive licensing" is a mixture of ideas from several proposals.
The connection to Sputnik and the "technology gap" was real, and drove a lot of changes at the time.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC2MJT on August 13, 2010
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Seems as if the QRP ops are breaking attendance records while the rest of you whine on the internet about the lack of activity.
http://home.windstream.net/yoel/
Record breaking sprint after sprint well after CW was declared dead by the pundits. See http://home.windstream.net/yoel/sprint201008.html
John, K3WWP and Tom WY3H have proven with perseverance and positive attitudes you can create a tidal wave of interest that offends no one, and is inclusive of all regardless of technical knowledge or expertise.
There are enclaves of positive activity within the ham community that rarely, if ever, communicate or get notice on these internet forums. Get away from your computers and ARRL glossies and play again.
If QRP and CW is not your thing, adapt their model, and spark some interest in your favorite area of amateur radio.
73
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K0IC on August 14, 2010
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If Amateur Radio has a problem it is when the average Amateur Radio operator can not repair his own gear due to subminaturization and digital technology and parts no longer all available from seven to thirty years of manufacture. The way many Amateur Radio operators get around this is going QRP and building simple transmitters and receivers if not transceiver kits. RFI problems seem to require a 25-watt power limit. That might work on 40-meters and above. It usually does not work as well on 160-meters and 80-meters. If the schools can not afford teaching Amateur Radio why not Scouting? NVIS loops and folded unipoles can be fitted in most places an expensive and questionable tower can be. Computers can be used for CW sending and receiving for those who have not taken time to become skilled.
I do not think we have a problem with Amateur Radio's future unless we make it that way by design.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W3DDF on August 14, 2010
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The Internet isn't killing off ham radio, it can enhance it by providing a source for informaton about ham radio. Those that are 'selling off' all their ham radio gear have just lost the interest in the hobby. They give excuses of changing operator behavior. Come on, just face it, you lost interest. Want more activity on the bands, get off the Internet and start using your equipment.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by CBISBACK on August 14, 2010
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What's killing ham radio off is all these so called "hams" spending countless hours on these moronic blogs instead of playing with their radios.
When they changed to tests to include digital they didn't mean blogging...
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD8MJR on August 14, 2010
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N4KC Said:
"BTW: I think we can ascribe much of the malaise about our hobby to people who have a tough time handling change of any kind. It is a verifiable psychological condition. And these forums give those folks a place to express that discontent."
Very true. Anybody who has had their parents live to the age of 70+ knows this fact all to well. Forget logic, forget argueing, nothing changes their opinion.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by QRZDXR2 on August 14, 2010
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what do you mean. Ham radio is dead and gone. No the bands are still their but, the orginal fellowship is long turned to dust and blown away.
to blame the internet for the down fall is not right. It instead is the $2000 dollar radio to check into the daytime net just to hear your call sign ' thanks for checking in' lasting what 30 seconds a day for. The economics of ham radio has gone out the window. A 100 dollar droid can do more than my 1500 dollar ham set ever thought about providing.
Common sense is really what is killing the ham radio. face it as its is a very good part of history. Some say that ham radio promotes learning and electronics... for what--no jobs in the US anymore--- However, greed, corruption and political pressure have all contrub'ed to its demise. The world has changed and with it technology has too. They don't need radio operators today. Just cell phones and the internet. They youth of today are smarter than we were. The look for the practical FUN side of things. Profit and loss also figure into the mix too.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by QRZDXR2 on August 14, 2010
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I have been licensed for Fifty years and that may be part of my issues with Ham Radio, too many changes and remembering the good-old-days when things were really Ham Radio to me.
I have seen disasterous changes over the years such as the ARRL "Incentive Licensing" and the bandplan changes back in the Sixties that, in my opinion was the start of the end of Ham Radio.
The socalled "Amateur Exam" is nothing more than a sad joke these days with no requirement for any technical knowledge or skills. Anyone who can breathe can be an EXTRA class within a few hours and are then allowed to demonstrate thier ignorance on the ham bands.
The mindset of ham today is much like the CBers back years ago. It is all about Public Service, parades, foot races, Saving the WORLD, and lets not forget the GodAwful CONTESTING Crap EVERY WEEKEND.
I do manage to squeeze in a good CW qso now and then but it sure is nothing like the years past when we had competent operators and folks who really got into the learning part of Ham Radio.
Fortunately, I have other hobbies that I enjoy so I do not dwell on the OLD DAYS quite so much.
--------------------------------------------------
MEE TOO-- I agree with this guys statements. The power switch has been off position more than its been on due to lack of interest after the good ones died off. I have to laugh at the CLASS OF LICENSE today. It has gone past being a JOKE. The ARRL in its quest for future funds has taken a professional hobby and turned it into the worlds biggest JOKE. (how much do they make working at the ARRL-- a hobby or business ?) What level of honor and experteese--LOLL More like pay and play-- and as we have seen dwindle; the respect for hams has turned into just that much, when viewed by leaders. Expensive hobby with very little return technically and on education today
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N4KC on August 14, 2010
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I could not disagree more strongly with your comments, QRZDXR2.
"the orginal fellowship is long turned to dust and blown away"
Do you actually listen to the bands? I hear wonderful fellowship every day, including right now--an interesting QSO on 17 between several stations in the USA with a fellow in Austria.
"the $2000 dollar radio to check into the daytime net just to hear your call sign"
What could you possibly find wrong with that if that is what the OM wants to do with his $2000 radio? He bought it and he is not hurting you or anybody else checking into the net!
"The world has changed and with it technology has too."
Well, that I agree with! Just as it always has and always will. If you cannot accept change and make the most of it, you are doomed to misery, my friend. Much better to adapt and learn, enthusiastically embrace and use rather than decry.
"I have to laugh at the CLASS OF LICENSE today. It has gone past being a JOKE."
Please! This one is way past old. Go to one of the many online sample exams and take one, without more than "a few hours of study," and then report honestly back to us and give us your score. We don't have the benefit of knowing what class license you currently have, but start with the General. Amateur radio is a hobby for a broad range of technical abilities and interests. The exam is not designed to separate the men from the boys, nor should it be.
"Expensive hobby with very little return technically and on education today"
I can't believe that old "expensive" saw keeps getting dragged out. In today's dollars, and even if a person insists on buying brand new, a far more advanced and full-featured radio can be purchased today for much less than when I started in 1963. Building? If someone so desired, parts are available, there are literally tons of schematics and construction details available--including here on the dreaded Internet, and he could build to his heart's content. What have you built lately, QRZCXR2? Seriously, I'd be interested in knowing.
And technically? Our hobby can be as technical as its participants want it to be. It is vastly more technical than it was when I started, and it is advancing even faster than it has in the past. Hang on!
And education? I'm 62, been a ham 47 years, and I learn something almost every day I am in this hobby.
My fervent hope is that someone interested in joining our ranks doesn't stumble upon this thread and decide we are all a bunch of curmeudgons, convinced nobody nowadays deserves a license because they don't have to work as hard for it as we did, that the hobby is a dead duck, with nothing left to learn and nobody interesting out there to talk with, and that store-bought rigs, nets, contests, DX, and emergency communications are all a waste of time, all while our national organization is only there to make money.
Gosh, QRZDXR2, it certainly is dark in your world!
73,
Don Keith N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
(A blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its effect on amateur radio, media and society)
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by 2I0VFO on August 14, 2010
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I for one dont think Ham Radio is dying it is changing thats for sure cw as I have listened to on 20m today is far from dying pcs' have made a difference to talking to the other side of the world for sure Skype and so on, But there a few who want to do it the hard way and that's what being a Ham is all about Joe
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KY6R on August 14, 2010
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Its all what you make of it. Me - I am having loads more fun than I ever did in the 70's - when I was first licensed.
I'm on all bands 160M - 6M and all modes, and working on my DXCC Challenge score. I still make my own antennas - and occasionally some gear in the shack.
You get out of it what you put into it (like everything else in life).
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KG4RRN on August 14, 2010
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I am still a tech after 8 years of being a ham, and now
I have more ham friends than other friends, who have driven many miles to see me, and have taken me to other places, too. I have done my part for public service, and don't regret it.I have made other younger hams interested in this hobby, and service, and I am proud of that.I operated a net from a Mercedes deisel
going down the interstate, how many hams can say that???
I have not tired of finding out new things about this hobby, and it is still interesting, but it is exactly
correct, it is what you make it, due to the many modes and all of the different things you can learn.
It also helped me in-directly get a job.
Now that the economy is not doing well, and people don't have money to burn any more, hams are now getting back to re-building some of the stuff which came before, and that is good.
That is good, because we learn how to fix it.
IF we stop learning then our society is dead.
Thinking, before we open our pie holes, that is a good lesson too.One I have to re-learn often.
But I have learned to not get heated, like I used too, because it's a waste of energy, I would rather laugh than cry, if you want to cry, watch September 11 TV re-broadcasts on YOUTUBE, and be glad you were not a victim.
I guess that is all I need to say.
73, all ~
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by NH6EV on August 15, 2010
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Like Pogo said We have met the enemy and it is us.
Or Elmer Fudd, I think... I am what I am.
Have fun with your hobby guys and gals, I know I do.
If you don't like it, just leave, don't bring the rest of us down.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WB3JOY on August 15, 2010
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Just figuring out all the menus on my radio should take me into the next lifetime. ;-)
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W5GNB on August 15, 2010
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Actually the statement from old POPEYE was " I YAM WHAT I YAM" then he would chug down a large can of raw Spinach HAHAHAHA!!
73's
Gary - W5GNB
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by K0RGR on August 15, 2010
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Ham radio is not dying, but it is certainly changing.
All hobbies are becoming more casual - fewer people are totally immersed in their hobbies these days. I've always found ways of doing ham radio while doing other things. Right now, I'm listening to two guys on 2 meters discussing a new Kenwood rig, while checking my email and writing this comment.
It's summer and it's about 100 degrees in the garage where the HF rig lives. We put in a furnace last year, and maybe a window air conditioner will be added next year. But, for now, I am enjoying the air conditioned second ham shack, which has only VHF and UHF. This fall, I will be doing the same kinds of things from the HF station.
This time of year, I like long road trips, and I find plenty to keep me busy. I had a marvelous QSO on 146.52 simplex in western Iowa a few weeks ago. The band was open for tropo, and I was hearing and working stations a couple hundred miles away. The linked mountaintop repeaters out west provide a lot of entertainment. When I get tired of that, I find others to listen to and work on HF. You could not have done this back in the 60's!
I do participate in public service stuff as much as I can. It's fun for me. We had a really exciting SKYWARN event the other day. What the critics don't understand is that the people doing public service are also doing the hobby. You can't be prepared for public service work without doing the hobby, too! Some of those EMCOMM guys are by far our best hams these days.
This fall, you will find me working my favorite contests, as usual, and that will probably be the only time all year that you find me devoting an entire weekend to HF. But if I hear you calling CQ on 20 or 15 meters, I may just give you a call to let you know you're getting out.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 15, 2010
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Actually, the way Popeye said it was "I yam what I yam".
Personally I'm more a fan of Foghorn Leghorn and the Tasmanian Devil.
73 de Jim, N2EY
"reminds me of the road from Fort Worth to Dallas - no curves"
"fortunately, I keep my feathers numbered, for just such an emergency"
"that dog, I say, that dog is about as sharp as a bowlin' ball"
"Dawg! You look like 2 miles of bad road!"
"No, I better not look. I just might be in there"
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NL7W on August 15, 2010
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Ham Radio isn't dead. Much like the world, it is changing though... and changing fast.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KA8OCN on August 15, 2010
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What I think is alot of old Hams like to whine!
I was originally licensed as a Novice and I had a blast with my Novice for a year but at the time if a person was someone that liked electronics and wanted to play Amateur Radio was one of the coolest things a person could do.
We did not have computers, internet, cell phones. I own a business that serves the Pet Industry and I have seen the Tropical Fish Business decline as computers increased and became more common in homes.
People only have so much free time (and nowadays I think people have to work more hours to keep their head above water) and there is so much more for people to do in their free time now.
I don't understand why all the Older Hams (Like Me) have such a hard time with new people coming into Amateur Radio? We have some new people coming into the hobby from the CB band and they are better operators than us old guys. One guy new guy in our area is a great guy, he is always helping someone out doing tower work for some of the older guys that cant do their own anymore. The old guys in our area don't help anyone they just complain about others.
I remember when I was A new to Amateur Radio I did a lot of antenna work for my Elmer and a few others. I did not know what I was doing but he told me what to do and I did it and learned in the process.
Things are changing, we can not stop it so I am going to do the best I can, help the new people WELCOME THEM IN, DO MY BEST TO MAKE THEM FEEL WELCOME. Help them when I can, lead by example.
As my Elmer used to say HAVE A BALL!
Know getting off soapbox
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by VK5SW on August 15, 2010
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I think Ham Radio will be around forever and I also believe that the Internet will help its popularity.
For one thing being able to look up a callsign on the Internet has added greatly to the enjoyment of the hobby and improved our ability to know the person on the other end of the microphone.
Improvements in technology like the Internet, will I believe, further the advancement of Ham Radio.
73 - Rob - www.vk5sw.com
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by K6DIL on August 16, 2010
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It is Monday morning. The above thread contains the term "psk31" two times. I am a dreaded no-code extra who has been licensed for 2 years and have yet to use telephone on HF. I love the psk31 because I can hit auto-spotters around the world and don't have to talk to anybody to know that I'm "getting out".
I do QSOs just the same, and on psk31 I've never seen any political discussions and only the "diamond encrusted" kind of religion here and there.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K4KYV on August 16, 2010
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The numbers may be up in the FCC data base, but activity on the bands is way down, compared to a generation ago. These days, even during major contests, it is usually easy to find a clear spot to operate on any HF band, even during peak operating hours.
The HF bands used to be packed with CW signals from the bottom end up to the low edge of the phone band. To-day, every band has a concentration of CW activity at the bottom end, with a large swath of sparsely occupied spectrum separating the CW/data activity from the phone band. This is true even during major CW contests. The phone bands are no longer so jam-packed with signals that it is impossible to find a spot to operate, even on quiet winter weekends.
This is not necessarily a bad thing. Some may remember an excellent article published in CQ Magazine sometime in the 60s titled "The Swans of Abbotsbury". The gist of the article was that amateur radio had the inherent ability to attract newcomers of its own accord, and recruiting efforts were not only unnecessary, but counterproductive, since the amateur spectrum was a fixed resource, and continued growth at the rate we had seen in the previous few years was unsustainable without expansion of amateur frequencies, something deemed extremely unlikely in those pre-satellite days.
In just a little over 10 years, from the mid 50s to the late 60s, all the K, WA and WB prefix callsigns were exhausted, but it took the first four decades of amateur radio licensing to go through the first sequence of W's.
Perhaps we were spoilt by the rapid growth during the 50s and 60s, and rather than stagnating over the past few decades, amateur radio growth has simply settled back down to something more normal and sustainable.
One of the reasons for incentive licensing was the fear that amateur radio could not have sustained indefinitely the nearly exponential growth that occurred between the mid 50s with the advent of the Novice class and sometime the mid 60s. I'm not so sure that incentive licensing was what actually slowed down that growth, however, as human society worldwide entered the turbulent period of the late 60s.
One thing I can say, however, is that incentive licensing was a dismal failure in terms of its stated goal and purpose, to enhance the technical expertise of the amateur radio community. Compare the technical content of a publication like QST or CQ to-day to that of an issue published during the pre-incentive licensing era. The primary reason that the current vestiges of incentive licensing have not been repealed altogether is that folks at the FCC and ARRL would have to admit that they or their predecessors made a mistake.
I have held Extra Class since 1963, so when incentive licensing came about, I paid little attention because it didn't affect my operating privileges in any way. But it didn't take me but a few years to realise that I liked amateur radio better the way it was before the HF bands were carved up and segmented into such a complex matrix of sub-bands and sub-sub bands.
Amateur radio will likely be around for many more decades, at least on HF, because there is so little interest in that part of the spectrum, so nobody will care if a few of us tinker around with radios on those frequencies. The real pressure will be on the VHF/UHF/microwave spectrum, and one reason we may lose much or all of it is that in most areas of the country the amateur bands above 30 mHz are sparsely used. Our greatest threat to HF operating is the ever-increasing level of rf hash and birdies spewed out by imported consumer electronics junk, and the unwillingness of regulating authorities to curtail it as a result of the aforementioned decline in interest in that part of the spectrum. Our second greatest threat is the increasing inability to put up effective antennas even on our own property as the rules that govern our daily activities continue to become ever more restrictive.
Don, k4kyv
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KF5EGM on August 17, 2010
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I get the feeling that with the rise in interest for microwave and data modes ham will get a nifty bit of extra interest. Think of all the computer geeks that would find interest in ham if they were simply told the kind of data rate they could get with 300 ghz. HUH? Yeah. 300ghz in the tech range. Everyone gets microwave privelages. Long range ultra high speed wireless data links are the dream of any computer geek, yet unaccessible because they don't know about the capabilities of ham radio. Believe me, I went to school for Cisco routing and switching. Even attended the wi fi classes, all my buddies would die to know the privelages I have now. Involve people and let them do what they are interested in, don't try to boot the old out. There is a good little logo for religions that could apply here too. Coexist. Not only would you involve like half of the IT community suddenly, but the kind of data communications and protocols these guys would develop from this would take the ham community and general populace by storm. I know people developing wired communications modes all the time...they could as easily do wireless modes. No our license no longer means we are technically elite to those in computer science or anything else...they are just different than us in their knowledge...why not invite them to share with us and us with them? Analog communications will always have their place, and frankly I'm going to continue to lust after that SSB radio until I get it, nothing can take it's place either. I may even learn code. Nonetheless there are modes none of us even know yet, modes left to be developed. Maybe digital analog modes of some sort...like psk or something, meant to get a signal through no matter what rather than get a good quality high speed connection. Or maybe data...narrowband data. Maybe high speed data. Maybe a million other things. A mode meant solely for tropo inversions. Who knows what will happen when you invite a new crowd to join you on your journey. I say look at the bright future ahead of us. Ya never know, that fm handi talkie may find long range use with some form of mod a newbie comes up for it.
A bright future in my mind and happy thoughts to fuel it,
KF5EGM
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by ZS6RJ on August 17, 2010
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Wow. Imagine if you'd all put this time into operating instead of debating - I'd have finally managed to complete my worked all counties, I reckon!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB1SF on August 18, 2010
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Don, k4ykv wrote: "One thing I can say, however, is that incentive licensing was a dismal failure in terms of its stated goal and purpose, to enhance the technical expertise of the amateur radio community. Compare the technical content of a publication like QST or CQ to-day to that of an issue published during the pre-incentive licensing era. The primary reason that the current vestiges of incentive licensing have not been repealed altogether is that folks at the FCC and ARRL would have to admit that they or their predecessors made a mistake.
--------------------------
Don, you’re only partially right. "Incentive licensing" was also a "dismal failure" because it has now placed the FCC in a HUGE federal legal "box".
Indeed, the issues you and others are bringing up in this thread provide us with yet more glaring proof (as if we needed any!) that our whole "incentive licensing" system has now become what's called "systemically discriminatory" under US equal access law. And THAT, my friends, is where the disabled lobby is going to eventually have a field day in the federal courts because there is absolutely NO direct link in our testing structure between the privileges such testing grants and the knowledge and skills one has to demonstrate to get them.
THE LAWS
ONE of the newer federal laws that covers now such regulatory systems in the US federal government is the "Persons with Disabilities Act of 1990"…the so-called ADA. Specifically, Section 202 of that law titled "Discrimination" reads as follows:
"Subject to the provisions of this title, no qualified individual with a disability shall, by reason of such disability, be excluded from participation in or be denied the benefits of the services, programs, or activities of A PUBLIC ENTITY (emphasis mine), or be subjected to discrimination by any such entity."
And, because it is an arm of the federal government (and supported by your and my federal tax dollars) it would seem to me that the FCC certainly qualifies as a "public entity" under the terms of this Act.
However, the ADA is not the only federal statute that deals with such issues. Another federal statute is the "Rehabilitation Act". And, as I read it, among other things, it also specifically prohibits Federal Executive Agencies (such as the FCC) from excluding persons with disabilities from obtaining the benefits of federal programs as a result of their disability.
Specifically, Section 504(a) of the Rehabilitation Act (which relates to nondiscrimination Under Federal Grants and Programs) reads in part as follows:
"No otherwise qualified individual with a disability in the United States, as defined in section 7(20), shall, solely by reason of her or his disability, be excluded from the participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance OR UNDER ANY PROGRAM OR ACTIVITY CONDUCTED BY ANY EXECUTIVE AGENCY (emphasis mine).
It seems to me that, just using the provisions of one or the other of these Acts, a good class action lawyer could make a very strong case that our entire FCC incentive licensing system unfairly "excludes participation in…denies the benefits of…or subjects disabled persons to discrimination under" the FEDERALLY administered licensing system for the Amateur Radio Service in the United States.
That’s because our licensing system withholds full participation in our Service (an Extra Class license) based on applicants passing ever-more-irrelevant written examinations that are not only internally duplicative (as I will show below), but also go WELL BEYOND what the international guidelines suggest should be the minimum qualifications for full participation in the Amateur Service.
The term we educators use to describe such tests is "invalid" because such tests measure skills and abilities that bear little or no relationship to what candidates actually need to know in order to successfully perform in their new roles. When constructing such tests, one must always ask the question: "Does the test actually measure what it is supposed to measure?"
What's more, when such tests require a knowledge of predominantly "nice to know" rather than "need to know" information, then, according to a whole host of equal access legislation in the USA (like those I've cited above), such tests become what's called "systemically discriminatory". That's because, taken together, they create a SYSTEM that makes a license grant contingent on applicants successfully answering questions that have little or no direct relationship to the privileges they grant.
For example, under US federal law, when hiring a person to stack boxes in a government warehouse, you can no longer legally make that person's hiring decision based on them successfully completing an examination over how boxes are MADE.. The job they are applying for is to STACK the boxes, NOT to make them. And while a knowledge of how boxes are made is "nice to know", it is NOT an essential element in the job they are being hired for.
Therefore, they cannot (legally) be required to know such information.
Likewise, forcing ALL applicants for an Extra Class License to answer a question like: "What is the direction of an ascending pass for an amateur satellite?" is an absolutely invalid and illegal question under current US law. That's because satellite operation is NOT an operational privilege granted exclusively to Extra Class license holders. And it is certainly NOT a requirement in order to be qualified to operate in the last few KHz of the HF bands now reserved for Extra Class operators. In fact, ANYONE with a valid Amateur License in the United States (including Technicians!) can operate via our fleet of amateur satellites.
Likewise, asking an Extra Class applicant the question "How many times per second is a new frame transmitted in a fast-scan television system?" is also an illegal question because, once again, Amateur television operation is NOT an exclusive operational privilege granted solely to Extra Class operators. As with satellite operation, ANYONE with a valid Amateur Radio License in the USA (including Technicians) can legally operate an Amateur television transmitter. That question is, therefore both invalid AND illegal under US equal access law because it creates an unnecessary barrier to applicants. That is, the knowledges and skills required to correctly answer that particular question have absolutely NOTHING to do with the knowledge and skills needed to safely and courteously exercise the uniquely exclusive privileges an Extra Class License grants.
Note that the "easiness" or the "hardness" of the question is not the issue. Rather, it's the RELEVANCE of the question to the SPECIFIC privileges a particular class of license grants that is important in determining the validity of our tests.
And, sadly, if you look at them closely, BOTH our General AND Extra Class exam pools are now CHOCK FULL of these equally "nice to know" questions that often bear absolutely NO direct relationship to the added privileges granted. True, such questions discuss Amateur operation in general. But, under today's federal equal-access laws, that's simply no longer good enough.
Frankly, BOTH of the questions I've shown above belong in the Technician question pool, NOT in the one for Extra Class. And making correctly answering such misplaced questions contingent on the grant of an Extra Class license becomes systemically discriminatory because it perpetuates a SYSTEM of discrimination by forcing ALL applicants (not just the disabled) to demonstrate knowledge and skills that are either irrelevant, or are not required for the exclusive privileges associated with the class and type of license being sought.
THE FCC'S DILEMMA
The bottom line here is that, unlike in the 1950s (when the FCC first hatched their "incentive licensing" foolishness), in the United States today, you can no longer legally test people for a government license if you cannot somehow DIRECTLY RELATE the skills and knowledges being examined to a SPECIFIC operational or safety need the new license will grant.
Unfortunately, the problem the FCC now faces for our Service is NOT just a matter of changing questions or making them "more" or "less" comprehensive. Rather, and has Don has so eloquently noted, the problem lies in the fact that, back in the 1950s, the FCC (at the ARRL's urging) decided that the ONLY privileges that would be withheld from lower class licensees in our system would be access to "exclusive" frequencies and call signs.
THAT prior (and now irrevocable management decision) in turn, means that their WHOLE, THROUGHLY ENTRENCHED APPROACH TO LICENSING in our Service is now illegal because, under these new US federal laws, our system arbitrarily withholds access to those "exclusive" privileges based on tests and questions that have absolutely NOTHING directly to do with the privileges those tests grant.
In short, today's FCC is now caught between a legal "rock and a hard place".
Clearly, a 50 question test over highly technical (but yet largely irrelevant) information to successfully determine if an applicant for an Extra Class license can safely and courteously operate in the last few KHz of our HF bands is overkill. Beyond knowing where the new lower-end frequency boundaries are, that skill set should have ALREADY been largely tested on the General Class exam.
Likewise, it DOES NOT take a 50 question exam over largely unrelated technical material to insure Extra Class applicants can successfully fill out an application for a so-called "exclusive" call sign. Yet, as I've said, under our arcane FCC "incentive licensing" farce, those are the ONLY TWO added operational privileges an Extra Class license grants to those who successfully complete such tests. In fact, if they were pressed to do so, I doubt seriously if our Question Pool Committee could even COME UP WITH 50 questions for our Extra Class exam that relate solely to the added, primarily frequency-based privileges our Extra Class license grants.
Indeed, and as I've clearly shown by citing just TWO questions from the current Extra Class exam pool, there remains a glaring (and I say illegal) disconnect between the content and the comprehensiveness of the questions on our exams (particularly those for an Extra Class license) and the (meager) additional (predominantly frequency-access-based) privileges they grant.
Sadly, for FAR too many crusty curmudgeons in our ranks, it has become an inconvenient truth that US federal laws like the ADA and the Rehabilitation Act now require that EVERYONE be given an equal opportunity for full, "barrier free" access to public services and resources like the Amateur Radio Service. Clearly, such laws are now threatening to break up their horrifically entrenched, government protected, members only "Country Club".
Now, complying with these new laws does NOT mean there should no longer be any licensing or control of that access to our Service. To the contrary, Article 25 of the ITU rules very clearly state that operators in our Service are to be BOTH tested and licensed.
However, what this DOES mean is that, by US law, federal agencies like the FCC can no longer arbitrarily place "nnecessary regulatory barriers" (their words) in front of people seeking full and complete access to federally administered programs like Amateur Radio without just cause. That also means that the content and comprehensiveness of our exams need to be DIRECTLY tied to some very specific operational needs. Right now (particularly with the exams for the Extra Class license) they clearly aren't.
It is also important to remember that no person needs to specifically prove they've been discriminated against in order for a federal agency to be found guilty of systemic discrimination under these laws. All that's necessary is that it can be reasonably shown in a court of law that a SYSTEM of such discrimination exists in that federal agency (in this case the FCC's licensing requirements for our Service) just as I have clearly and unequivocally done in the paragraphs above.
I've always found it sad that, almost everywhere else in the world, governments have left it up to we hams to decide which operating mode goes where on our bands. The International Telecommunications Union, the organization that governs all radio services internationally, has set out broad (VERY broad) frequency allocations for our Service...usually consisting of only an upper and lower band limit and a specified bandwidth for the emissions to be conducted therein.
It is only here in the United States that such broad limits have been further restricted by license class and operating mode in our Part 97. And that is because the FCC, back in the 1950s, decided to base differences in our license classes (and the incentive for us to upgrade) on ego-stroking "exclusivity" (i.e access to so-called "exclusive" operating frequencies and modes) rather than on specific operational considerations such as limits on power output, constructing transmitters "from scratch", operating a repeater or club station, or giving exams.
And, as I have also said, simply "stroking egos" no longer cuts it as a valid (spelled: "legal") reason for a US Government agency to grant full privileges to one class of licensees in our Service while arbitrarily and capriciously withholding them from another. Such differentiation can no longer be legally based on applicants being forced to correctly answer exam questions that are duplicative, irrelevant and/or unrelated to the SPECIFIC additional operating privileges such new licenses will grant.
CANADA'S SYSTEM
By contrast, and unlike the "ego-based" tests proscribed for applicants to our Service in the USA, the Canadian license system for our Service ties the successful completion of THEIR advanced test to specific operational needs. In exchange for successfully passing it, Canadian Hams are given just a very small number of very specific additional privileges that are far more commensurate with the technical material examined. These include being able to build transmitters "from scratch", run a KW of power (vice 250 Watts), be the licensee of a club or repeater station, and give exams.
Clearly, the latter pursuits involve a great deal more potential risk of physical harm to either one's self or to others (running high power) if you don't know what you are doing, or are activities with much greater probabilities of causing harmful interference to others on the Ham bands or other services (building transmitters from scratch or running a club station or a repeater). ALL of those activities absolutely require a modicum of additional technical knowledge to perform safely and without interfering with other operators or other Services.
And, because the Canadian test criteria are largely based on such clearly delineated operational and safety needs (rather than on simply granting Extra Class operators "exclusive" access to artificially walled-off frequency spectrum that General Class operators supposedly ALREADY know how to operate in because they've been ALREADY been granted access to HF) they are far less prone to charges of systemic discrimination than the US testing structure.
What's more, in Canada, those Amateurs with a Basic With Honours Certificate (granted by scoring 80 percent on a 100-question exam) can operate ANYWHERE within the upper and lower limits of ALL of our internationally allocated Amateur Bands. The only frequency restrictions such Basic Certificate holders have are by emission bandwidth, NOT by license class or operating mode. And, usually, for HF, that bandwidth limit is set at 6 KHz (except for 30 Meters where it is set at 1 KHz).
Or, to put it another way, the only operational restrictions place on Basic Certificate holders in Canada is that short "laundry list" of limitations I've outlined above which are reserved exclusively for Advanced Certificate holders. And their Advanced Exam covers ONLY that material that is DIRECTLY related to the specific additional privileges that the Advanced Certificate grants.
What's more, Canada (like most other countries in the world) leaves it up to its Hams to decide for themselves "what goes where" on our bands. And their exam structures are usually based solely on safety and operational considerations rather than on needlessly (and illegally) "stroking egos".
73,
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KF7GTU on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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Thanks for this post. I'm only 34, I need HAM radio to last another 60 years at least. :)
Here's to the future, as long as I can use real radios to really transmit and DX, without using the Internet only, I will love this activity.
The feeling of public service is something you don't get from your cellular phone or text messaging.
Thanks again!
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC5NWS on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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I have moved to 100% cw and now just chase dx. After almost 40 years of ssb and fm jibber jabber I find those modes quite boring.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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K4KYV writes: "The numbers may be up in the FCC data base, but activity on the bands is way down, compared to a generation ago."
What time period do you mean? IOW, how long is "a generation"? 20, 30, 40 years?
Consider these factors:
1) We have more bands and modes today than ever before, which spreads us all out.
2) We have lots of hams with serious antenna restrictions which keep them off certain bands or limit their signal strength on the bands they can use.
3) We have more-selective receivers than 40-50 years ago. And crystal-controlled operation is much less common.
4) Mobile operation is down because of car design, cell phones and lifestyle changes.
5) Internet, cellphones and other distractions take up lots of time, space and other resources.
K4KYV: "In just a little over 10 years, from the mid 50s to the late 60s, all the K, WA and WB prefix callsigns were exhausted, but it took the first four decades of amateur radio licensing to go through the first sequence of W's."
That only happened in the most-populous call districts. Here in 3-land, for example, we didn't get through the WA prefix until the late 1970s.
It was helped by the fact that for most of the latter time the FCC would not reissue callsigns from earlier groups to new hams, while in the pre-WW2 period it was common to reissue callsigns that had not been used for a number of years.
For a given prefix, there are 17,576 possible three-letter suffixes and 676 possible two-letter suffixes.
K4KYV: "Perhaps we were spoilt by the rapid growth during the 50s and 60s, and rather than stagnating over the past few decades, amateur radio growth has simply settled back down to something more normal and sustainable."
Actually there was tremendous growth during the 1930s and from the end of WW2 until the early 1960s. The 1970s and 1980s also saw lots of growth. By contrast, the 1960s were a period of slow growth even before incentive licensing.
Here's a list of the number of US hams, plus the US population and the growth by decade:
Year Population Hams Growth Ratio
1930 123,202,624 19,000 6,484 to 1
1940 132,164,569 56,000 +194% 2,361 to 1
1950 151,325,798 87,000 +55% 1,739 to 1
1960 179,323,175 230,000 +164% 780 to 1
1970 203,211,926 263,918 +15% 770 to 1
1980 226,545,805 393,353 +49% 576 to 1
1990 248,709,873 502,677 +28% 495 to 1
2000 281,421,906 682,240 +36% 412 to 1
2010 310,022,351 693,970 +1.7% 447 to 1
The 2010 figures are today's.
Note that the greatest percentage growth occurred during the 1930s, despite the Great Depression and the 1929 regulations that chopped our bands enormously and required much better transmitters. Right behind the 1930s for growth are the 1950s, when the Novice and Technician licenses were new, and hams had to battle TVI as a new thing.
But the most curious thing is to compare the 1960s and the 1970s. (Keep in mind that incentive licensing went into effect in November 1968).
The 1960s saw growth of only 15%, while the 1970s, when IL was at its worst, saw growth of 49%.
If incentive licensing was so bad for amateur radio, why was there three times the 1960s growth in the 1970s?
K4KYV: "One of the reasons for incentive licensing was the fear that amateur radio could not have sustained indefinitely the nearly exponential growth that occurred between the mid 50s with the advent of the Novice class and sometime the mid 60s. I'm not so sure that incentive licensing was what actually slowed down that growth, however, as human society worldwide entered the turbulent period of the late 60s."
Couple of mistakes there.
The Novice was created in 1951, not "the mid-1950s". It was a big success from the start, because it made getting started in ham radio relatively easy. And since its privileges were so limited, a typical Novice station could be very simple yet very successful.
The Novice also had a built-in incentive: Until the 1970s it was a limited-time, one-shot nonrenewable license. Most Novices had their stations all set up, or nearly so, before they got the license. That way they were ready to go when the envelope from FCC came. Once a Novice had the license, they were on the air whenever possible, to build up skills and knowledge needed to upgrade to a renewable license.
Today it's very different. There are "Technician in a day" classes with good success rates. With a 10 year renewable license, there's no hurry to upgrade or get on the air right away.
And even the 1950s couldn’t equal the explosive growth of the 1930s in percentage terms.
The main reason for incentive licensing was the perception of a “technology gap” – the idea that American hams weren’t keeping up with “progress” in “science and technology”. This idea wasn’t limited to ham radio; American schools were affected too, by increased emphasis on science and related subjects. Remember “New Math”? Remember Sputnik and how shocked Americans were?
K4KYV: "One thing I can say, however, is that incentive licensing was a dismal failure in terms of its stated goal and purpose, to enhance the technical expertise of the amateur radio community."
Maybe. But consider *why* that happened: More license classes, but changes in the test methods and test content.
K4KYV: "Compare the technical content of a publication like QST or CQ to-day to that of an issue published during the pre-incentive licensing era."
I have every QST from the mid 1920s to this month, and have read them all. I don't see any big change in technical content until QEX was started. Then the more-technical stuff moved to QEX.
One thing I heard from multiple sources over the years was that QST was "too technical" and "they're trying to shove (SSB, FM, satellites, computers, solid-state...) down our throats".
There's also the fact that in the bad old days a lot of hams homebrewed, converted surplus, and/or modified manufactured gear because it saved money. IOW, many hams were technical by necessity. Inexpensive manufactured rigs changed all that for many hams.
K4KYV: "The primary reason that the current vestiges of incentive licensing have not been repealed altogether is that folks at the FCC and ARRL would have to admit that they or their predecessors made a mistake."
Not really. The staffs of both have turned over a couple of times at least since the 1960s, so it wasn't the current folks, nor their predecessors, who were responsible.
The real reason it's the way it is now is because FCC still sees some benefit in it. Consider that if the Extra were eliminated, there would be no US license that qualifies for full CEPT privileges.
Also consider that the overall requirements are such that children in elementary school have earned the Extra license in recent years.
K4KYV: "But it didn't take me but a few years to realise that I liked amateur radio better the way it was before the HF bands were carved up and segmented into such a complex matrix of sub-bands and sub-sub bands."
Think about what *really* changed:
Before incentive licensing, the HF bands were divided into the parts where 'phone was allowed and the parts where it wasn't. Additionally, there were Novice parts of three bands (80, 40 and 15). Technicians had no HF at all. 160 was full of LORAN, 60, 30, 17 and 12 weren't ham bands.
On the HF bands, incentive licensing didn't affect 10 meters at all. Only 80/75, 40, 20, and 15 meters were affected, and a 'phone op could get back almost everything by getting an Advanced. (The Extra-only 'phone subbands were 25 kHz of 75 and 15). CW ops had a bit more of a challenge; they needed an Extra to get back the 25 kHz at the bottom of 80, 40, 20 and 15.
6 meters was affected in a small way but that was eventually repealed.
So the actual effect on most hams wasn't all that dramatic.
What changed much more dramatically in the time period you describe had nothing to do with incentive licensing:
One big change was that SSB displaced AM as the most-popular voice mode on the HF amateur bands. That process started in the late 1940s but didn't really get rolling until the early 1960s, when SSB transceivers and matched-pair separates made SSB easier to use and less expensive than comparable AM.
Inexpensive table-top grounded-grid amplifiers made high-power 'phone practical for many more hams, too. (Compare the "new" price of a Mohawk and an Apache to the "new" price of an SB-101 and SB-200 just a few years later).
A lot of hams got rid of their AM stuff fast when SSB began to take over, and often took a big loss on it, too.
Technology changes, plus the overall rising standard of living of Americans in those days, caused a lot of hams to stop homebrewing, converting surplus, or modifying existing rigs. Instead, they'd just trade in what they had and get something newer and more advanced. The trade-in value of clean, late-model used manufactured gear was a lot higher than surplus, homebrew, or old stuff back then.
In the pre-incentive licensing days, most HF amateur operation was either 'phone or CW. There were a few RTTY enthusiasts, but the cost, size and complexity of an amateur RTTY station made it a niche activity. SSTV appeared in the very late 1950s, but again it required considerable investment of resources. But by the 1970s those modes became easier to implement, and alternative manufactured-for-hams gear appeared. Rules changes and PCs in the ham shack increased the variety of modes to the point where we almost have a "digital tower of Babel".
In the 1970s and into the 1980s, imported rigs rose to prominence and popularity, and many American rigmakers simply disappeared. This trend wasn’t limited to ham radio; all “consumer” electronics went through it. The Japanese could make better stuff cheaper – and they did. Blame a fellow named Deming for part of it. Blame the failure of many American rigmakers to adapt for the rest.
K4KYV: "Our greatest threat to HF operating is the ever-increasing level of rf hash and birdies spewed out by imported consumer electronics junk, and the unwillingness of regulating authorities to curtail it as a result of the aforementioned decline in interest in that part of the spectrum. Our second greatest threat is the increasing inability to put up effective antennas even on our own property as the rules that govern our daily activities continue to become ever more restrictive."
I agree 100%! But there's more:
- The unwillingness of regulating authorities to curtail the interference isn't so much from lack of interest in HF as it is from lack of funding and a hands-off, deregulatory mindset.
- Most middle-class Americans' lifestyles have changed dramatically over the past few decades. The percentage of families where Dad works 9 to 5 and Mom stays home to care for house and kids is far less than it was decades ago.
- Buying a house in a good neighborhood where you can put up a decent antenna has become much more costly and difficult. Not only are the suitable houses fewer than they used to be, they're more expensive! Young people are particularly affected by this because most of them cannot simply pick up and move. This has a pronounced effect on what you hear on the bands.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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kb1sf WRITES: "forcing ALL applicants for an Extra Class License to answer a question like: "What is the direction of an ascending pass for an amateur satellite?" is an absolutely invalid and illegal question under current US law. That's because satellite operation is NOT an operational privilege granted exclusively to Extra Class license holders."
But ALL applicants for an Extra are not "forced" to answer such a question.
It's simply one of many questions that *may* be on the Extra exam. Or it may not.
KB1SF: "In fact, ANYONE with a valid Amateur License in the United States (including Technicians!) can operate via our fleet of amateur satellites."
By that reasoning, the question belongs in the Technician exam, not the Extra exam.
KB1SF: "Likewise, asking an Extra Class applicant the question "How many times per second is a new frame transmitted in a fast-scan television system?" is also an illegal question because, once again, Amateur television operation is NOT an exclusive operational privilege granted solely to Extra Class operators. As with satellite operation, ANYONE with a valid Amateur Radio License in the USA (including Technicians) can legally operate an Amateur television transmitter."
So you're saying the question about television belongs in the Technician exam too.
KB1SF: "That question is, therefore both invalid AND illegal under US equal access law because it creates an unnecessary barrier to applicants."
How?
KB1SF: "That is, the knowledges and skills required to correctly answer that particular question have absolutely NOTHING to do with the knowledge and skills needed to safely and courteously exercise the uniquely exclusive privileges an Extra Class License grants."
But they do have something to do with the privileges granted to all amateurs.
So what you're really saying is that most of the questions in the Extra and General pools should be moved to the Technician pool. And the only questions that would be left in the General and Extra pools would be those connected to privileges those licenses have but Technician doesn't. For example, the band limits of 20 meters.
KB1SF: "Note that the "easiness" or the "hardness" of the question is not the issue. Rather, it's the RELEVANCE of the question to the SPECIFIC privileges a particular class of license grants that is important in determining the validity of our tests."
And since the questions you cited - and many others - are relevant to the Technician, you're saying they should be in the Technician class pool.
With so many questions on so many subjects, the Technician written would then have to expand to about 100 questions, too.
KB1SF: "And, sadly, if you look at them closely, BOTH our General AND Extra Class exam pools are now CHOCK FULL of these equally "nice to know" questions that often bear absolutely NO direct relationship to the added privileges granted. True, such questions discuss Amateur operation in general. But, under today's federal equal-access laws, that's simply no longer good enough."
So you're saying they should all move to the Technician pool.
KB1SF: "Frankly, BOTH of the questions I've shown above belong in the Technician question pool, NOT in the one for Extra Class."
So when are you going to petition FCC to increase the size of the Tech test to 100 questions or more, and move almost all of the General and Extra questions into the Technician pool?
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WB6DGN on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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"What would you do if you were taking a bride to her wedding 20 miles away and the car broke down ? Take a gun and finish yourself off"
No! Take the groom aside and tell him he owes me big time!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WB6DGN on August 18, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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"What would you do if you were taking a bride to her wedding 20 miles away and the car broke down ? Take a gun and finish yourself off"
No! Take the groom aside and tell him he owes me big time!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB1SF on August 19, 2010
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Mail this to a friend!
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N2EY wrote: "So what you're really saying is that most of the questions in the Extra and General pools should be moved to the Technician pool. And the only questions that would be left in the General and Extra pools would be those connected to privileges those licenses have but Technician doesn't. For example, the band limits of 20 meters."
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Not quite.
I'm saying the Extra Class license serves NO USEFUL REGULATORY PURPOSE other than to stroke people's egos. And simply stroking people's egos is no longer a legally supportable, REGULATORY reason for preventing ordinary citizens from obtaining full access to a taxpayer-supported public resource...our Internationally allocated amateur radio frequencies....that they ALREADY OWN!
What's more, Jimmie, I DON'T need to "petition" the FCC for anything. Indeed, what I'm proposing is essentially ALREADY HAPPENING right under your and your like-thinking buddy's collectively upturned noses because it HAS TO.
That's what the removal of the Morse test requirement was all about, not to mention the consolidation (and "grandfathering" of privileges) of our various license classes that's been going on for the better part of the last two decades. That’s also what the complete turnover of all examinations to volunteers was all about as well.
Indeed, I have it on good authority (from a retired FCC staffer) that the FCC already KNOWS FULL WELL that their 1950s-era, "ego-stroking", "achievement-based" licensing system for our Service is legally unsupportable under current US equal access law. They ALSO well know that our system is increasingly becoming the "odd man out" when it comes to such things as international reciprocal licensing with such multi-country collective permits as the CEPT.
In addition, I have been told by someone very familiar with these issues that our FCC overlords are currently taking a VERY long and hard look at the licensing systems of other countries (like Canada) as potential models that might be adapted to suit our current situation.
That’s because today's FCC staffers WELL understand they may soon be FORCED into completely reforming the licensing and regulatory systems for our Service... whether we hams, the ARRL or anyone else likes it or not. This will most likely be as a result of either an external federal legal decision that goes against the current "staus quo" or by a Congressional decree of some sort.
But NONE of these long-needed changes will come as a result of the FCC's stupid "petition" farce. That's because they ALREADY KNOW such sweeping changes will be truly controversial among current hams and will have to be forced on our Service from without. Indeed, controversy (particularly of the "career ending" variety) is something federal bureaucrats absolutely DO NOT INITIATE and tend to avoid at all costs.
As I've said, the principal 'beef" with our licensing system in the eyes of those in the federal government who monitor such things (as well as the rest of the world's radio regulators) is the fact that the differences between our various license classes are NOT based on any safety or non-interference considerations.
Rather, the differences in the knowledge and still requirements for our license classes (particularly those for the Extra Class License) are largely based on awarding so-called "exclusive" access to artificially walled-off sections of VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL HF spectrum after applicants successfully complete exams over yet MORE reams of "nice to know" material. And while the latter approach increases one's awareness of RF theory and practice, our exam structure (particularly the exam for our Extra Class license) bears little or no DIRECT relationship to the SPECIFIC additional operating privileges they grant.
As a result, and as I have clearly demonstrated in my previous post, the bulk of our current higher-class examinations routinely ask questions that relate to operating privileges that have ALREADY BEEN GRANTED to lower class licensees under our so-called "incentive" system.
And, any way you cut it, Jimmie, that's unfair, systemically discriminatory….and now patently illegal under a plethora of US federal equal access laws.
I contend ALL of our exams are now illegal because the system that promulgates them was set up back in the 1950s to measure outcomes that are largely EDUCATIONALLY and ACHIEVEMENT based rather than COMPETENCY based. In today's federal service, this makes our exam structure largely incomparable to other licensing systems throughout the rest of the US federal service, not to mention the rest of the radio regulated world.
Indeed, it is also important to remember in these discussions that the FCC has always been nothing more than a US Government-funded, taxpayer supported REGULATORY agency. They are NOT (and never have been) chartered as a college or university and have NEVER been granted any legal authority (or professional certification) either by Congress or the Executive Branch to set themselves up as one. Yet, their 1950s-era "incentive licensing" farce persists in our Service in the United States TO THIS DAY.
As I've also said on numerous occasions, I predict that, sooner or later, our licensing system WILL, of legal necessity, be FORCED to change so as to (finally!) bring it back into line with both the US legal code (as it relates to equal access to federal programs) as well as with the minimalist competency guidelines contained in international (ITU) radio law. When (not if) that happens, I predict ALL the rest of our FCC's 1950s-era, ARRL-inspired, "incentive licensing" nonsense will be tossed right out the window.
In its place I think we will see a one or two-tiered licensing system where specific operational privileges (such as running higher power, or building transmitters from "scratch", for example) are SPECIFICALLY WITHHELD from rank beginners much like our Canadian friends do until such time as those beginners can prove (with a more comprehensive exam) they are capable of safely and courteously handling them.
This means that new "basic" exam will, by design, have to be significantly MORE comprehensive than our current Technician exam. But it will not be nearly as comprehensive as the Extra exam. And that new "Advanced" exam (or whatever you want to call it) will examine ONLY those advanced topics that DIRECTLY RELATE to that small handful of more potentially hazardous or interference-prone pursuits (like running high power or an in-band repeater) that have been specifically withheld from lower class licensees.
The principle underlying difference in this new exam structure will be that, unlike our current US system, BOTH exams will concentrate exclusively on measuring basic competencies rather than granting largely "ego stroking" rewards based on the pursuit of some elusive concept of "pseudo-education".
The big problem in all this, of course, will be what to do with currently licensed hams. Depending on their specific situation, my hunch is that most will be "grandfathered" into higher classes of licenses based on their self-trained, "time in grade" similar to what Industry Canada did with their codeless (that is VHF and above only) Basic Certificate holders when they made the Morse test optional for HF access.
Of course, this also means that whatever rank and status those persons who have been desperately clinging to their 20 WPM, FCC examined, Extra Class licenses get by holding it up as some kind of "badge of honor" will be out of luck going forward. That's because our exam system will (finally!) be reverting back to simply measuring basic operational competencies based on safety and non-interference considerations rather than on a (largely failed) concept of educational "achievement".
I say "failed' because, for all of its stated goals at "improving the technical qualifications of hams" when it was foisted on our Service back in the late 1950s by the ARRL and their willing stooges in the FCC, to date, almost HALF of all radio amateurs in the USA have told the ARRL and the FCC to stick their "incentive" nonsense where the sun doesn't shine.
Indeed, these folks...nearly 49 percent of all currently licensed US hams...have been seemingly quite content to remain as lowly, "uneducated" Technicians.
But what is even MORE indicative of the total failure of "incentive licensing" is the fact that, at last count, only 17 percent or so of current US hams have been "incentivized" enough to successfully complete one of the last few remaining US Government-sanctioned "hazing rituals" in the US federal service..the entirely baseless written exam one must STILL successfully complete in order to obtain a so-called "Extra Class" amateur radio license.
Now, granted, these sweeping reforms may not be completed this week, next month, or even next year.
But, mark my words, Jimmie, they are ALREADY HAPPENING or being seriously contemplated by our FCC regulators DESPITE the wails of protest now emanating from that ever-shrinking minority of people in our ranks who remain absolutely petrified of such inevitable progress and change.
'Nuff said.
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K9MHZ on August 19, 2010
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KB1SF Keith....
A quick question for you...if the "so-called Amateur Extra" license is so easy to obtain and worthless, then why do you proudly proclaim on your personal homepage that you're an "Extra (highest) Class" amateur?
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB9NGI on August 19, 2010
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My wife and I are both "Folkies" which is what 60's ere folk singers call ourselves. No license for this nor any extra class, but the same silly arguments. One of my dulcimers is an electric instrument, no sound box and a built in picup. Did you know you cannot make legitimate music with an electric? ;;sigh;;
Sue-z (kb9oyo) is also a model railroader. Did you know that no one can do valid modeling of diesels or using anything other that 1:87 (HO) scale? ;;sigh;;
One of the good things about ham radio is that the FCC runs the rules and can ignore the dolts who know better than everyone else what we MUST do to keep radio what it was when they were licensed. Thanks heavens!
FWIW
de
kb9ngi
jimB
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W7GAH on August 19, 2010
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I retired in 2005 and got interested in radio in 2008. I am a no code Extra. I took the Tech and General (2009) on the same day and a year later took the Extra (2010). I have no electronics background, but I have a stack of books. Did the tests demonstrate my knowledge, No. It was only a key to open the door so I could move on in the learning process.
I built a couple of antennas and put together a modest but nice shack. I haven't been on the radio much this summer because a windstorm took my antenna system apart. The next system will be built better and stronger.
I also have not been on the air because I am learning code. How else can I really test propagation and test myself as an operator. Its a good thing that I get a new test with every contact.
I am a retired police officer. I did not get into radio to be involved in emergency management or communications. I got in to learn and be amazed what a little electricity and a piece of wire or a length of aluminum will do.
Can amateur radio be like the old days, probably not. Can a guy have fun learning about radio, propagation and being a decent operator ... I hope so. At least I am going to give it a try. By the way in my short time in radio I have heard the drunks, lewd characters and QRMers. However, ALL of my contacts have been pleasant, congenial and generally very instructive.
Just my 2 cents
W7GAH Jerry
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K4KYV on August 19, 2010
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KB1SF said:
"I'm saying the Extra Class license serves NO USEFUL REGULATORY PURPOSE other than to stroke people's egos. And simply stroking people's egos is no longer a legally supportable, REGULATORY reason for preventing ordinary citizens from obtaining full access to a taxpayer-supported public resource...our Internationally allocated amateur radio frequencies....that they ALREADY OWN!"
That's exactly the way it was when I took mine in 1963. The Extra Class afforded no additional privileges beyond what was enjoyed by the Generals. In addition to the 20 wpm code test, there was a two-year waiting period before a General was eligible to upgrade to Extra. The FCC issued a nice little certificate along with the wallet size licence, that resembled a commercial certificate, to hang on the wall. That was about the total extent of the benefits of the licence. I don't recall that the licence class was even given in the Callbook listings in those days. EXTRA was an appropriate name because it indicated that the licensee had demonstrated competency beyond the minimum necessary for basic operating privileges.
Under to-day's licence structure, the names of all the classes are misnomers. The "Technician" is no longer an amateur primarily interested in experimenting with largely undeveloped spectrum above 300 mHz, as was the case when the FCC first created that class of operating privilegus. A better name for the Technician to-day would be "Communicator Class".
The General class licensee no longer carries "general" operating privileges; his privileges are substantially limited. A better name would be something like "Limited Licence".
The Extra class is now required for full operating privileges, beyond the severely restricted privileges available to the General. It is no longer something "extra" that goes "above and beyond" the requirements for basic amateur privileges. It is now required to enjoy a substantial portion of available privileges. Actually, "General" would better fit the description of the privileges now afforded by the Extra class ticket.
More appropriate names for to-day's operator classes would be something along the lines of Communicator, Limited Licence and Full Licence.
The incentive licensing debacle is tot totally the doings of the ARRL. Until about 1951, the year that the Novice class was created, amateurs had the old class A and class B licence structure. Class B was re-named General and Class A was renamed "Advanced".
(which no longer carried additional privileges). In 1951 when the Extra and Novice were created, the FCC gave the Generals full operating privileges, with Advanced and Extra carrying nothing additional.
Up to that time, the Class A examination had no additional code test. The questions asked were relevant to the privileges it offered: voice privileges in the "premium" 75m and 20m phone bands. The questions on the class A test were limited to topics directly related to radiotelephony operation and techniques.
After a little more than 10 years of unlimited operating privileges by Generals and above, some people at ARRL and elsewhere began to feel the need to return to the old class A and class B licensing structure. This is an excellent example of why one should be very careful when asking any government regulatory agency to impose additional restrictions; you may not get exactly what you asked for. It is highly unlikely that the League had in mind the highly segmented sub-band and sub-sub band structure we ended up with when they first began to entertain the idea of "incentives".
Probably the greatest mistake of all involving incentive licensing was the failure to grandfather existing Generals to full operating privileges, so that no-one would have actually lost privileges they had previously earned and enjoyed before the changes went into effect.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 19, 2010
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K4KYV wrote:"Under to-day's licence structure, the names of all the classes are misnomers. The "Technician" is no longer an amateur primarily interested in experimenting with largely undeveloped spectrum above 300 mHz, as was the case when the FCC first created that class of operating privilegus."
When the FCC created the Technician in 1951, it gave all amateur privileges above 220 MHz - and none below.
K4KYV: "The General class licensee no longer carries "general" operating privileges; his privileges are substantially limited."
That depends how you define "substantially limited"
On all but 4 amateur bands (80.75, 40, 20 & 15), Generals have full US amateur privileges.
The additional operating privileges of an Extra, compared to a General consist of:
25 kHz of CW/data space on 80
200 kHz of 'phone/image space on 75
25 kHz of CW/data space on 40
50 kHz of 'phone/image space on 40
25 kHz of CW/data space on 20
75 kHz of 'phone/image space on 20
25 kHz of CW/data space on 15
75 kHz of 'phone/image space on 15
And that's it. Out of the 3750 kHz of space US hams have below 30 MHz (not counting the 5 channels of 60 meters), Generals have 3250 kHz. That's 86%!
That's the only difference in operating privileges between General and Extra.
K4KYV: "The Extra class is now required for full operating privileges, beyond the severely restricted privileges available to the General."
"Severely restricted"?
K4KYV: "The incentive licensing debacle is tot totally the doings of the ARRL."
Agreed! In fact, ARRL was *against* the creation of the Extra in 1951!
K4KYV: "Until about 1951, the year that the Novice class was created, amateurs had the old class A and class B licence structure. Class B was re-named General and Class A was renamed "Advanced".
(which no longer carried additional privileges). In 1951 when the Extra and Novice were created, the FCC gave the Generals full operating privileges, with Advanced and Extra carrying nothing additional."
Sorry, that's NOT what happened.
In 1951, the FCC restructured by renaming the old A, B and C licenses as Advanced, General and Conditional. They also added three new license classes: Novice, Technician and Extra. The changes had been proposed and debated for several years prior.
Generals did NOT get full privileges in 1951, nor in 1952.
What happened is that FCC announced that the Extra was intended to replace the Advanced as the full-privileges license. There would be no new Advanceds issued after the end of 1952, but those who had them could renew and modify them. Extra and Advanced would have full privileges, but General and Conditional would not. It was also announced that when new privileges were permitted, only Extras would get them. (What this meant exactly was never really explained. Superpower? New modes? New bands?)
Many hams scrambled to get their Advanceds before the end of 1952, because afterward it would take more testing to get full privileges.
And then, in mid-December 1952, FCC completely reversed itself and announced that effective mid-February *1953*, Generals and Conditionals would have full privileges.
Why the FCC changed direction so dramatically at the very last moment is unknown. But that's what they did. After years of debate and proposals, and 18 months after the restructuring, they went in a completely opposite direction with almost no warning and no real explanation.
K4KYV: "Up to that time, the Class A examination had no additional code test."
That's true; it required only a General and a year's experience. Class A/Advanced test was only given by FCC; there was no by-mail equivalent like the Class C/Conditional, and if a Conditional wanted an Advanced, s/he had to pass the General code and theory all over again in front of an FCC examiner before being allowed to even try the Advanced - or Extra.
K4KYV: "The questions asked were relevant to the privileges it offered: voice privileges in the "premium" 75m and 20m phone bands."
It's important to remember that those were the only 'phone subbands between 2.5 and 25 MHz back then. 30, 17, 15, and 12 meters weren't ham bands in those days, and 40 had no 'phone subband.
What this meant was that the only HF/MF 'phone bands open to Generals and Conditionals were what was left of 160 (LORAN was all over it), 11 and 10.
K4KYV: "The questions on the class A test were limited to topics directly related to radiotelephony operation and techniques."
Not according to the License Manual! Not at all!
I have a 1951 ARRL License Manual, and the Advanced study guide is 52 questions. Only 15 of the 52 sample questions are about 'phone techniques. That's less than a third!
The rest of the study questions cover subjects such as power supply operation (rectifiers, filters, regulation), tube theory (amplifier classes, biasing), frequency measurement (crystal tolerance, heterodyne frequency meters), and transmitter design that is not specific to 'phone (doublers, buffers, oscillators).
The Advanced covered a lot of things that were not specific to 'phone operation. And a General could operate 'phone on 160, 11 or 10 meters, so it wasn't as if they were unqualified to operate 'phone on HF or MF.
K4KYV: "After a little more than 10 years of unlimited operating privileges by Generals and above, some people at ARRL and elsewhere began to feel the need to return to the old class A and class B licensing structure. This is an excellent example of why one should be very careful when asking any government regulatory agency to impose additional restrictions; you may not get exactly what you asked for. It is highly unlikely that the League had in mind the highly segmented sub-band and sub-sub band structure we ended up with when they first began to entertain the idea of "incentives"."
Actually it was the FCC that asked the question. As early as 1958 they expressed concern that US hams weren't keeping up with advances in radio. This was right after Sputnik, when the "technology gap" and the Cold War were a very big deal.
The ARRL's 1963 proposal was simple: Go back to the old structure; require an Advanced or Extra for voice operation on the HF bands between 2.5 and 25 MHz. Simple.
That proposal generated at least 10 others. It was one of the others (by CQ magazine, IIRC) which proposed subbands-by-license-class. And FCC went for it.
You may think these are minor details, but they're really not. They change the story dramatically. People forget about, or don't even know, about the other proposals.
They also forget that FCC put all the proposals out for comments, and that hams and groups commented in large numbers (6000 comments, back when there were only 254,000 US hams, and it was all by US mail).
K4KYV: "Probably the greatest mistake of all involving incentive licensing was the failure to grandfather existing Generals to full operating privileges, so that no-one would have actually lost privileges they had previously earned and enjoyed before the changes went into effect."
Grandfathering Generals and Conditionals was proposed, but FCC wouldn't do it because it wasn't just new hams who were the concern. At the time (1963) there were 254,410 hams in CONUS, of whom 135,509 were Generals or Conditionals.
But I agree it would have been much better to have imposed incentives based on new privileges rather than taking away existing ones. For example, higher power limits, an expanded vanity call program for Extras and Advanceds, widened 'phone subbands for only those license classes, etc.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W2NLS on August 19, 2010
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Hi Jim -- We have to agree to disagree on the ARRL role in Incentive Licensing. It is true that the FCC supported it but only after receiving the request from the ARRL which originated the idea. While no polls were taken by the ARRL I believe there were a few by other organizations(Wayne Green I think?) and you sure only had to listen on the bands a bit to hear almost everyone being against the idea except for an elitist group. I do think that Incentive Licensing pretty much killed the growth curve for ham radio and it should have been rescinded long ago and the current license structure completely replaced by one that puts greater emphasis on the hobby, community service and emergency communication aspects rather than the technical side. And what technical side questions remaining becoming much more digital and internet savvy. At any rate, we all want the same thing -- a hobby with enough people in it and garnering enough respect to keep our frequencies during the next wave of broadband grabbing.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 20, 2010
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W2NLS: "It is true that the FCC supported it but only after receiving the request from the ARRL which originated the idea."
The fact is that FCC wanted to do *something*. It must be realized that the FCC of those days was very "activist", wanting to direct the way various radio services developed, setting goals and limits, etc.
FCC were unhappy that so few hams had Extras, and had the *perception* that US ham radio was falling behind.
Of course there's a world of difference between perception and reality. But the big point is that the ARRL and others could have suggested something different from taking privileges away from already-licensed hams.
That was the BIG issue, overall: Hams who lost privileges, even in a small way.
W2NLS:"While no polls were taken by the ARRL I believe there were a few by other organizations(Wayne Green I think?) and you sure only had to listen on the bands a bit to hear almost everyone being against the idea except for an elitist group."
Maybe. Neither is a reliable sample of opinion.
Most important: did those folks write to FCC? Did they propose alternatives? In both cases, the answer is no.
W2NLS: "I do think that Incentive Licensing pretty much killed the growth curve for ham radio"
The actual numbers don't bear that out at all. Growth was strong in the 1970s and 1980s, when the effects of incentive licensing were strongest!
It's clear from the numbers I posted earlier that incentive licensing didn't kill the growth at all.
W2NLS: "and it should have been rescinded long ago and the current license structure completely replaced by one that puts greater emphasis on the hobby, community service and emergency communication aspects rather than the technical side."
For that to happen, somebody would have to propose it to FCC.
W2NLS: "At any rate, we all want the same thing -- a hobby with enough people in it and garnering enough respect to keep our frequencies during the next wave of broadband grabbing."
The problem is the balance between numbers and respect - between quantity and quality.
If the license requirements are reduced, we may get more hams, but they may know less. If the requirements are raised, we may get fewer, but with greater knowledge.
Look what happened to cb - no license at all, huge numbers in the 1970s, and no respect from the regulators. How many cb users are there now, besides truckers?
Look around eham and see some of the questions being asked by *licensed hams* about extremely basic stuff. Also note the prevalence of urban myths in ham radio (like the one about why we use LSB on 75 and USB on 20). Those things don't gather respect.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W2NLS on August 20, 2010
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"t is that FCC wanted to do *something*. It must be realized that the FCC of those days was very "activist", wanting to direct the way various radio services developed, setting goals and limits, etc. "
The fact is that while the FCC may have informally said various things they never made any formal request to the ARRL. In 1963 the ARRL's choice was clear: Act in a slavish manner to the merest suggestions of the FCC because it dovetailed with the views of a very few officers there or properly represent their existing membership and perhaps respond informally to the FCC with, I dunno, all the good things ham radio was already doing? I like the ARRL today. A lot. But in 1963 they were controlled by a cabal of elitists.
"Maybe. Neither is a reliable sample of opinion."
Were you on the bands in 1963? I was and believe me the "sample" was reliable. You had to really look for ANYone who liked the idea.
"Most important: did those folks write to FCC? Did they propose alternatives? In both cases, the answer is no."
Proposing alternatives to the FCC against the alternative presented by the ARRL? Against the ARRL's media and access to FCC officials control? By private individuals? It is to laugh.
"It's clear from the numbers I posted earlier that incentive licensing didn't kill the growth at all."
I don't believe I said it killed the growth. I said that it killed the potential growth curve. We had far fewer hams join than we would have otherwise, that's common sense. We had growth. We lost out on much larger growth.
"If the license requirements are reduced, we may get more hams, but they may know less. If the requirements are raised, we may get fewer, but with greater knowledge"
Depends what you mean by know less. If they know less radio theory who cares? Do you think that it makes any difference to my own operating that I can calculate various resonant circuits? The stuff on the exams today from Technician through Extra is firmly based on 1965 technology and will never be used by most hams other than the ones who enjoy building radios from scratch. Laudable, yes. Mainstream? no. Keep the licenses hard to get -- but make the knowledge base have more to do with what hams know and/or should know today. Instead of two questions on PSK-31 have some questions on D-Star and interfacing to the internet. Have some Echolink diagramming. Maybe even have testing on familiarity with DX operating and contest rules. You can keep the respect that hams have and redirect the knowledge.
I am sick to death after fifty years in this hobby of people who think "real hams" are the ones who understand the most about their radios. Bull. The real hams are the ones who learn emergency operating procedures, the ones who check into nets and ragchew into the dawn hours, those who extend the worldwide friendships of DXing, the ones who meld the internet of today with the technology of -- let's face it -- yesterday, those who make the bands a better place to live, the ones who we can turn the rig on and be proud to have shack visitors listen to.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC8VWM on August 20, 2010
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Leave it to Jim to disagree with everyone and pick everything apart.
Jim, why can't you just get along with everyone like everyone else does?
What's the issue exactly?
Is it your mission to be "right" all the time and disprove everyone who ever posts a comment on here or something?
Stand back and take a look at yourself for a minute dude.
I can see right through all this. Can't you? Take a chill pill dude. ...lol
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WA2JJH on August 21, 2010
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EEEEEEE-YOOOO & WTF!!!!!!
Hello old friend,,,Chuck FVM.
Ham Radio was the ultra cool hobby for many in the past,
I am talking pre-superhet RX and spark gap TX.
Our numbers are increasing. Oh......Ham Radio needs a break!!!!!!
Heck.....I better get my butt over to MIKey D's..........like Mach Stat.!
HR has more options amd ways to enjoy the hobby.
1)Design and build your own.
2)Build your own designed by your own. Seems that K3 has the specs that are that good.
3(Spend 10K and buy an import that claims to be best!!
4)Get into the hobby with all bands and modes in one radio.
ICOM 7000.
5) The testing is easy for the average Joe today. Remember up until 1990, the General Exam required some difficult theory.
6)The CW requirment was dropped. CW is still the mode of those
of young and old!!!
Break your own radio! Or build your own that is a perfomer.
Ham radio evolves every pico second.
Ham radio has a proud tradation of peer review. If thats the new term for a "break"...OK dude, have it your way!!!!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WA2JJH on August 21, 2010
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EEEEEEE-YOOOO & WTF!!!!!!
Hello old friend,,,Chuck FVM.
Ham Radio was the ultra cool hobby for many in the past,
I am talking pre-superhet RX and spark gap TX.
Our numbers are increasing. Oh......Ham Radio needs a break!!!!!!
Heck.....I better get my butt over to MIKey D's..........like Mach Stat.!
HR has more options amd ways to enjoy the hobby.
1)Design and build your own.
2)Build your own designed by your own. Seems that K3 has the specs that are that good.
3(Spend 10K and buy an import that claims to be best!!
4)Get into the hobby with all bands and modes in one radio.
ICOM 7000.
5) The testing is easy for the average Joe today. Remember up until 1990, the General Exam required some difficult theory.
6)The CW requirment was dropped. CW is still the mode of those
of young and old!!!
Break your own radio! Or build your own that is a perfomer.
Ham radio evolves every pico second.
Ham radio has a proud tradation of peer review. If thats the new term for a "break"...OK dude, have it your way!!!!
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 21, 2010
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KC8VWM asks: "What's the issue exactly?"
In this case, getting the history right.
KC8VWM: "Is it your mission to be "right" all the time and disprove everyone who ever posts a comment on here or something?"
No. I'm certainly not right all the time.
But sometimes folks post things that are clearly not based on facts or sound reasoning. I question some of those things and try to point out some of the mistakes.
I thought that sort of thing was one of the reasons for eham.
Is that wrong? Should I not do that?
KC8VWM: "Stand back and take a look at yourself for a minute dude.
I can see right through all this. Can't you? Take a chill pill dude. ...lol"
What is it you would have me do differently?
73 de Jim, N2EY
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB9ERU on August 21, 2010
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"Tired of day wonders that are now extraclass ops, that, don't have a clue about radio/electronics."
...And there you have it. Back in my day, we had an Elmer. He/she was a person with a kind heart and was willing to teach you what you wanted to know.
It's not the lack of people, it's the lack of caring that has eluded this hobby as a whole. I'm speaking specifically to the curmudgeons that are still crying about the "easy Extra class" ops, like the one above.
Waaaaaaaaaa. Go suck on your thumbs.
The best advice I can give to the "new" ham that has a desire to learn something is you'll have to buy books, search the Internet, or use trial and error methods. Most Elmers have left, and the majority of the old people that are left are the ones that lack basic life skills due to poor upbringing.
You know what's REALLY funny? The QSL cards from operators I keep getting from OUTSIDE the U.S. could care LESS about how I got my Extra class....
The GREAT news is that the curmudgeons will go SK before the hobby does, and maybe then we can turn this hobby around. Then we will get our break.
And to the trolls, flamers, and grammar wonders, you can kiss the heart of my bottom.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 21, 2010
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KB9ERU writes: "Back in my day, we had an Elmer. He/she was a person with a kind heart and was willing to teach you what you wanted to know."
My Elmers were books.
KB9ERU: "It's not the lack of people, it's the lack of caring that has eluded this hobby as a whole."
Look around eham and other sites and groups, and you'll see lots of experienced hams sharing what they know with others. Same Elmering, just a different venue.
KB9ERU: "The best advice I can give to the "new" ham that has a desire to learn something is you'll have to buy books, search the Internet, or use trial and error methods."
Good advice!
But there are plenty of Elmers out there - just look at eham forums for a start. The thing is, you have to at least try to meet them half way.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC8VWM on August 21, 2010
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“I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.” - David Barry, American Writer.
Hi Mikee, how's it going old buddy.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by SM0AOM on August 22, 2010
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KB1SF wrote:
"The International Telecommunications Union, the organization that governs all radio services internationally, has set out broad (VERY broad) frequency allocations for our Service...usually consisting of only an upper and lower band limit and a specified bandwidth for the emissions to be conducted therein."
Actually the ITU Radio Regulations contain no bandwidth specifications for the amateur radio frequencies, only the band limits.
Bandwidth is only addressed generally in Article 3 "Technical Characteristics of Stations"
where general clauses such as:
"3.3 Transmitting and receiving equipment intended to be used in a given part of the frequency spectrum should be designed to take into account the technical characteristics of transmitting and receiving equipment likely to be employed in neighbouring and other parts of the spectrum, provided that all technically and economically justifiable measures have been taken to reduce the level of unwanted emissions from the latter transmitting equipment and to
reduce the susceptibility to interference of the latter receiving equipment.
3.4 To the maximum extent possible, equipment to be used in a station should
apply signal processing methods which enable the most efficient use of the frequency spectrum
in accordance with the relevant ITU-R Recommendations. These methods include, inter alia,
certain bandwidth expansion techniques, and in particular, in amplitude-modulation systems, the
use of the single-sideband technique.
...
3.9 The bandwidths of emissions also shall be such as to ensure the most efficient utilization of the spectrum; in general this requires that bandwidths be kept at the lowest values which the state of the technique and the nature of the service permit. Appendix 1 is
provided as a guide for the determination of the necessary bandwidth.
3.10 Where bandwidth-expansion techniques are used, the minimum spectral power density consistent with efficient spectrum utilization shall be employed."
Nowhere in the ITU-RR are specific bandwidth restrictions for amateur stations found.
However, some Administrations have incorporated the IARU Region I band plans, who contain "bandwidth regulations", verbatim in their national rules.
73/
Karl-Arne
SM0AOM
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N9AMI on August 23, 2010
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Yup I prefer what it used to be not what its turned into a bunch of Cb radio operators using q codes on repeaters and can't build a single band dipole.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K6DIL on August 24, 2010
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You may need an "Extra" to know how to build a single band dipole. Most dipoles work on harmonics as well as the frequency they were designed for.
If somebody saying "QSO" on a 2 meter machine presses your button you must be wound pretty tight.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by WS2L on August 24, 2010
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I was first licensed in 1978 (At age 13) so in 32 years I have seen some major changes in the hobby. I honestly do not yet see the internet ruining this hobby totally. I admit that it has done a number on hamfests over the years. I miss the good ole hamfests from the late 1970's and through the 1980's. I think during the early 1990's hamfests started taking a hit from the internet and by the year 2000 it was noticeable.
I have enjoyed this hobby so much over the past 32 years and being only 46 years old I plan on enjoying it hopefully for another 32 years.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KB9ERU on August 24, 2010
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KB9ERU: "It's not the lack of people, it's the lack of caring that has eluded this hobby as a whole."
N2EY: "Look around eham and other sites and groups, and you'll see lots of experienced hams sharing what they know with others. Same Elmering, just a different venue."
After seeing your point of view, I see that I need to clarify my statement. My fault.
Myself, and others locally around me as a whole, see a general lack of caring in the "real, not virtual, Amateur world".
The Internet is a great place, and the "virtual Elmer" seems to be the only Elmer available nowadays.
When I was young, I started in CB radio. One day when I was about 14, I walked by a house with "big antennas", and stopped in to ask about them. His response was, "Those are not CB antennas, they are Amateur Radio antennas".
That kind old man opened up the world of Amateur Radio to me, and the rest is history.
I (and others around me) fail to see that level of helpfulness in clubs, testing sites, and yes, sometimes even on eHam. Most are hell bent on politics, whining about the "new ham" who BARELY knows code or anything at all, shun the chance to have a friendly chat with a new ham when he gets on a repeater, acting "high and mighty" because of their "self proclaimed technical prowess", and my personal favorite, flamers and grammar wonders.
All this negativity, both real and virtual, coupled with topics like "Give Ham Radio a Break", "Is Ham Radio Still Relevant?" and "Is Ham Radio Dying" reinforces my point. It's not very helpful.
N2EY: But there are plenty of Elmers out there - just look at eham forums for a start. The thing is, you have to at least try to meet them half way.
While I agree that you need to meet them half way, we seem to have a shortage here in my area.
Should Amateur Radio as a whole start some kind of "Elmer list" to find a volunteer Elmer in a prospective hams area? It is a shame to see new and prospective hams get shunned the way they do by curmudgeons, especially at Field Day.
Off topic, not directed at anyone specifically:
Can we really complain about the "new hams" acting like LIDS on repeaters when "old LIDS" are all over the SSB portion of 20 and 75 meters?
Just a thought....
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by W4CX on August 29, 2010
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Oh, Kwityerbitchin.
Ham Radio is exactly the same as any other hobby: photography, RC airplanes, stamp collecting, etc. There's not much "cutting edge development" being done there, either. The only noticeable difference is the need for a federal license, the passing of which seems to make us think we are some kind of DeForest genius or something.
When we can't satisfy our primal need to brag about a past accomplishment (passing an exam), our only claim to fame depends on us actually DOING something constructive and contributing to the state-of-the-art. Yes, many of us design and build antennas and QRP rigs, etc, but the vast majority seem to sit on their posterior and preach to the rest of us. So in this OT's opinion, if all you can do is find fault, maybe it's time to QRT, SK.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KD0ILM on August 29, 2010
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I am a new ham and am 58 years old. I am very computer literate and internet savvy and find that this takes nothing away from the hobby. At this point I am interested in Boat Anchor HF DX'ing. Nothing rude about any of the people I have run into on these bands. I have no interest in repeaters so perhaps that's where the CB'ers and rude people are, I just don't know.
I find it amusing that someone thinks you can get an extra "in a few hours" without knowing anything. This reminds me of the teacher I had in Business School who made us figure the present value of bonds by hand. Ridiculous. I used to teach High School electronics a lifetime ago and am here to tell you that there is nothing easy about getting an extra. Perhaps there aren't as many exotic formulas or references to Boat anchor technology, but it is not easy. On the other hand if put the time in to study you will pass.
I think the internet and all of the new ways of sending radio communication digitally will only increase interest in the hobby. The more diversity there is the more people that will find it interesting. I hear people complain about the demise of CW requirements for a license. CW is only a part of the overall experience. I may learn code someday but not everyone has an of interest in it. I have no interest in most digital formats, but more power to those that do, and lets not forget how many advances come from the diversity of the hobby. I also challange the notion that the hobby is dying. Why else would someone get into it at my age?
Kevin
KD0ILM - Aspiring Extra
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on August 30, 2010
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KB9ERU: "Myself, and others locally around me as a whole, see a general lack of caring in the "real, not virtual, Amateur world".
The Internet is a great place, and the "virtual Elmer" seems to be the only Elmer available nowadays.
When I was young, I started in CB radio. One day when I was about 14, I walked by a house with "big antennas", and stopped in to ask about them. His response was, "Those are not CB antennas, they are Amateur Radio antennas".
That kind old man opened up the world of Amateur Radio to me, and the rest is history.
I (and others around me) fail to see that level of helpfulness in clubs, testing sites, and yes, sometimes even on eHam. Most are hell bent on politics, whining about the "new ham" who BARELY knows code or anything at all, shun the chance to have a friendly chat with a new ham when he gets on a repeater, acting "high and mighty" because of their "self proclaimed technical prowess", and my personal favorite, flamers and grammar wonders.
All this negativity, both real and virtual, coupled with topics like "Give Ham Radio a Break", "Is Ham Radio Still Relevant?" and "Is Ham Radio Dying" reinforces my point. It's not very helpful."
I agree! But consider a few factors:
1) What you encounter locally is not necessarily true of everywhere.
2) The internet has given people a place to complain and act out without much if any consequence. Not just hams, but anybody who can get online. People write things online they wouldn't dare say in person.
3) Social behavior has changed enormously. Look at TV shows and movies, listen to radio programs - a lot of them have content that would have been unthinkable years ago.
4) Ham radio has changed too, both in license requirements and technology. And not all for the better.
N2EY: But there are plenty of Elmers out there - just look at eham forums for a start. The thing is, you have to at least try to meet them half way.
KB9ERU: "While I agree that you need to meet them half way, we seem to have a shortage here in my area.
Should Amateur Radio as a whole start some kind of "Elmer list" to find a volunteer Elmer in a prospective hams area?"
Sounds like a good idea.
What I mean by "meet them half way" is this:
There seems to be an expectation in some circles that an Elmer will take a newcomer by the hand and spoon-feed him or her everything he or she needs to know, without any real effort on the newcomer's part besides showing up. Besides being unrealistic, that approach often backfires because the newcomer becomes a victim of "learned helplessness". IOW, he never learns how to fish on his own.
"Meeting half-way" means the newcomer reads and studies on their own, and only asks questions when s/he can't figure it out alone.
Look around eham and you'll see both cases. In some questions, it's clear that the questioner has read the manuals, googled, looked around, and still can't find the answer. In others, it's clear that the questioner simply wrote the question without any research, and expects a custom-made instant answer.
KB9ERU: "It is a shame to see new and prospective hams get shunned the way they do by curmudgeons, especially at Field Day."
What form does this shunning take?
One thing I have encountered on Field Day (in some group efforts) is that there will be a few hams hard at work setting up the stations, getting everything working, and then getting on the air and making contacts.
And there will be a larger group of hams standing or sitting around, socializing, watching, and sometimes getting in the way. Often a few will take on the role of asking all kinds of questions, or offering all kinds of suggestions, but not really helping out.
What's the appropriate response?
This past Field Day I encountered a General class ham of relatively recent vintage who didn't know how many conductors were in coax - and was angry that I even asked. I was trying to tell her how to hook her SGC auto-tuner (which didn't have an SO-239 output) to a coax-fed antenna. I wound up making a simple adapter and installing it.
I didn't shun anybody, but that was kind of hard to take.
KB9ERU: "Off topic, not directed at anyone specifically:
Can we really complain about the "new hams" acting like LIDS on repeaters when "old LIDS" are all over the SSB portion of 20 and 75 meters?"
Yes, we can.
20 and 75 meter 'phone aren't all there is to ham radio, and the lids there are only a small number compared to the whole.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by K3ROJ on August 30, 2010
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I believe the problem with ham radio nowadays is the loss of CW operators since they no longer require it to obtain a license. It would be like a surgeon going to college for many years, then the medical society eliminating taking a course in Biology. During Field Day, even though there were many CW stations on, I doubt if 10 per cent of visitors could sit down and relieve an operator using CW. Perhaps the ARRL wanted the elimination since they are now making more money with the infux of ex CB operators. Or perhaps the FCC knew their employees would not be able to enforce regulations since none of them are capable of learning the code? We are still teaching youngsters Morse Code but they are far and in between. OK, I have to run since I just heard a JA station on 14.010 Mhz (using Morse Code).
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by KC2SMU on August 31, 2010
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I am a "newbee" to ham radio. I got my 1st license about 2 years ago. I am waiting to get my 1st HF radio, but I only want to start with new radio. I have antenna restrictions and I am not able to do any climbing to put up an antenna. I got into ham radio to keep my mind active and try to learn new things every day. I have studied several of the ARRL books and have joined clubs in NJ and AZ. I wished that I could have passed the code tests back in 1958, when I had a receiver. I also flunked the US Army code test back in 61.
I would like to start HF sometime this fall--I understand new tranceivers are coming out soon.
I find the other hams are usually very friendly and helpful, but in todays economy a lot of them don't have the time like the olden days.
I hope you will not put me down for not knowing code.
73's everyone
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by KT9Y on August 31, 2010
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It's true. A lot of hams love to put down this hobby as well as put down other hams too. It's a shame and a waist of time. We have the best hobby in the world! Think positive, be helpful, shut your mouth if need be, and share your love for Amateur Radio with the world. United we stand, divided we fall.
Take care everyone and good topic to talk about!
Tim / N9HUW
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by W4DXL on September 6, 2010
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Like everything else in our lives Ham radio is ever changing it doesn't stand still. There was a time when more technical proficiency was required to homebrew at least some of your equipment otherwise you were labeled an appliance operator.
These days there isn't as much done with electronics on the component level. The new radios and other devices are more difficult for the average person to work on. Most of us would rather ship our expensive radios back to the manufacturer rather than open them up.
We can still have fun with Ham radio. The friends I have made on the air and at my local hamfests make it all worthwhile.
My one criticism are people who seem to need basic information spoon fed to them rather than doing any self study. With the internet and all the books available there is no excuse for this.
73,
Mike W4DXL
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by W3KFQ on September 6, 2010
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Facts & Fiction
Some posters miss the point entirely,it isn't about old or new technology or operators. It is about subscribed to values.
All things change over time, it is inevitable,that is something we have no real control over. The problem is in trying to accommodate everyone's idea of what ham radio should be about.
If we treated the "Wright Bros." accomplishments the same way we handle the AR debates, no one would remember or care about what 2 bicycle guys did.
The essence of amateur radio revolves around an unspoken and abstract vision of pioneers in the past. Everyone, in their own way was moving AR forward in a sometimes slow but positive direction.
Ya take care of the dog..and stop counting his fleas..to quote an old timer now SK. He knew then our hobby was headed for trouble.
I don't need to bitch about the deterioration..it is obvious, but I am trying to do my best to keep that vision clear in my mind, and to pass that essence on to those who are willing to put the effort into the process of learning and becoming good thoughtful operators..whatever their mode is.
Our enemies look for divisions within our ranks and use them against AR, exploiting the weakness to their advantage. It ain't rocket science.
Robert
W3KFQ
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KJ6HWL on September 7, 2010
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Thank you for your thoughtful response. I just got into ham radio. In a previous post someone complained about all the "events." One of things they mentioned was public service.
Public service is how I got into ham radio. I am a member of a Community Emergency Response Team, CERT. We were encouraged to get our tech license so we could use HTs for emergency communications. Originally I thought that's all I'd ever do with ham radio. At a drill last May someone invited me to join the Pasadena Radio Club. I attended Field Day 2010.
Now I am studying for my General license. I am looking into taking an electronics class at my local community college (if they ever have a class opening!). I am studying Morse code. My only wish is that I'd discovered the hobby sooner.
Any hobby that is not evolving is dead. I used to have a darkroom, develop my own film, and print the photos. When digital photography first came out I resisted but then allergies to the chemicals forced me to give up the darkroom. Now my "darkroom" is my computer running Photoshop. Yes, at times I miss the magic of watching a print come to life in the developer tray but on the other hand I couldn't have put the capitol dome onto a crane to cap the gulf oil spill using traditional methods.
I recently had the opportunity to work at the finish line of the Angeles Crest 100 Mile Endurance Run. There were 16 ham radio stations set up from start to finish to monitor the progress of the runners through a series of mountain trails. Runners had to check in at 14 check points between the start and finish. Runners check in and check out times were sent to net control via packet radio. This info went into a program, written by a ham, that entered it into a database. At the finish line we were able to monitor the progress of all runners. We had a computer set up so that people who were waiting for a runner could check their progress. The program even has a feature which sent an alert if a runner appeared to be overdue for their next checkin point. Paper logs of all data were also kept as a backup. We had voice communication between the stations.
I know this is getting rather lengthy but I bring this up as I look at the hobby as evolving. I think it is an exciting time to be learning ham radio. I know things have changed a lot in the past years. I was in shock when I went to buy my HT. When I went into the store I expected to see radios with dials, glowing panels of analog meters and the like. And yes, I really had to dig into the manual to figure out all the buttons on my HT!
Please do not slam ham radio public service. It was my entry into the hobby. Maybe some of you don't live in areas where you deal with the threat of earthquakes and fires. (Bob Hope once called California "Shake and Bake") But ham radio has provided major emergency communications assistance here. If we do not help each other, who will?
73
Jutti
KJ6HWL
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N2EY on September 8, 2010
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K3ROJ writes: "I believe the problem with ham radio nowadays is the loss of CW operators since they no longer require it to obtain a license."
Maybe.
But consider this:
In 1990, the FCC created "medical waivers" which meant that any class of US amateur license could be earned with just a 5 wpm test and a waiver.
In 1991, the FCC dropped the code test from the Technician license, which carried all privileges above 30 MHz.
In 2000, the FCC reduced the code test requirement for all the other license classes to 5 wpm.
K3ROJ: "During Field Day, even though there were many CW stations on, I doubt if 10 per cent of visitors could sit down and relieve an operator using CW."
Probably. But that situation existed long before the test was eliminated.
btw, this year I went on Field Day with a group that ran 7A + GOTA. We had one full-time CW station and two part-time CW stations. The GOTA station and the other 4 stations were 100% 'phone.
And yet when the dust settled, we had 770 CW QSOs and less than half that many 'phone QSOs. So there were a LOT of CW ops on the air for Field Day.
This wasn't a one-time thing, either. In previous years, we ran a single full-time CW station and all the rest of the operation was 'phone, and yet the CW station would make more points than all the rest of the setups put together.
K3ROJ: "Perhaps the ARRL wanted the elimination since they are now making more money with the infux of ex CB operators."
No, that's not what happened nor why it happened.
K3ROJ: "Or perhaps the FCC knew their employees would not be able to enforce regulations since none of them are capable of learning the code?"
Not it either.
FCC wanted the code test gone for two reasons:
1) There was petition after petition asking them to eliminate it.
2) They were convinced that the code test wasn't justified any more.
In 1999, in the Report and Order which announced the changes of 2000, the FCC said the ONLY reason they kept the 5 wpm code test was because of the ITU treaty.
btw, the FCC first tried to create a no-code-test amateur license in 1975. Strong opposition stopped it. They tried again in 1983 - and again strong opposition. In 1991, they did it anyway, despite the opposition.
Ironically, there is still very strong interest in Morse Code *use* among hams. There are more companies making code keys now than ever before, and more small CW rigs than I can keep track of.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KK6NJ on September 12, 2010
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Oh yes especially in emergencies all this luxory cell
phone internet stuff is useless in emergencies for an example hiking in remote mountains where there are no cell coverage or weak coverage an ht on an repeater or even national simplex two meters 146.52 will the do the job you never know when you may fall or break an bone or an bad sprane etc! there are still areas of the country that have no twisted pair or cell coverage
in parts in northern nevada and montana alaska.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by N7SGM on September 14, 2010
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Morris,
I for one think ham radio will be around for a long time! I once asked a seemingly dumb question one day on QRZ and sure enough I got a smart answer. I acknowledged that remark and literally apologized for asking the dumb question. Another ham responded and sort of scolded me for taking that so seriously. He was right and so was I for asking that dumb question.
A big part of the hobby is asking, what others may think of as dumb questions, but it is really just yearning to learn more about the hobby. Let's face it, the ham could have just laughed to himself and not even responded at all but it's all good; it's just part of being people and now I look at these otherwise negative responses in a different way. In fact I have tried to help new hams with questions they post that seem to be elementary for me.
We all must remember that we were all rookies at some point. I've been licensed since 1991, I am an Extra, and I certainly don't know everything about ham radio and believe there are few who do. That is what makes it a great hobby. There is always a lot to learn no matter your educational level, license class, or your personal background.
There has also been many contributions to society by ham radio folks. A more recent one is the invention of Voice Over Internet Protocol or VOIP. Many of us use this telephone service everyday and don't even realize it was discovered by a ham. If you have a home phone (land line) through Comcast, you are most likely using VOIP.
Another interesting thing happened along the way when the FCC stopped testing Morse code during license exams after 23 Feb 2007. The initial thought was that CW would surely go away. Not true, newcomers to CW actually increased. Just because it wasn't part of the exam, didn't make people want to stop learning and using it.
Ham radio has a lot of competetion with other means of communication but it really can't be fairly compared to cell phones, the internet, etc. It's different and so are hams. Ham radio doesn't require all the electrical/electronic gear and infrastructure used by other comm systems. We can communicate with a battery powered radio and simple antenna to just about anywhere in the world with nothing else needed. We see this happen almost daily in emergencies but not that many people actually know how it's done or realize it's part of ham radio.
I think we would be better stewards of our hobby through public education. I really don't think the average person today knows much about ham radio or how great a hobby it is.
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by KC8OYE on September 17, 2010
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I don't think Ham radio is dying.. changing yes.. for the better? I don't think so.
As for the reports of 2m sounding like Ch19.. I'm sorry that as ham's, you PERMIT that kind of activity. Where I live in michigan, if someone was operating like that, they would be immediately directed to stop. If not, they would be referred to an Elmer, if he couldn't convince them, an OO.. if the OO couldn't fix it.. the FCC Was notified, OR the offender was RDF'd down and met in person, but it was never tolerated, and should not be tolerated. IMHO that is one of Ham radio's greatest assets, that we are NOT CB.. we are held to a higher standard, and we need to maintain that.
One thing I think that really is affecting the hobby however IS costs. Getting a license is easy.. it's cheap..
getting on the air w/o someone donating equipment is expensive! The cheapest 2m mobile you will find is around $150
HF rig's seems to start at around $1,000 and go up from there. (Yaesu does have a couple around $400 and $600)
that's still insane money for a 'hobby' in my eyes.
compared to my other hobbies.. I could stretch $1000 a LOT further in goodies for my classic muscle car then I could for ham gear!
also as hams we need to push harder to get more folks into the hobby.. but as it was mentioned..the tough part is setting off that initial spark! I'm not going to lay blame at anything specific.. but I agree.. young folks these days have a lot of other distractions and convincing them to put down the game controller and cell phone and try a hobby that can be challenging is an uphill battle for sure!
I think once you get people over that hurdle of getting their ticket and getting on the air.. and they get a glimpse at all the different things you can do in ham.. even only has a tech. class license... heck I remember when I made my first AmSat contact with nothing but my 5 watt HT and a magmount antenna stuck to computer case side tossed out the window onto the 1st story roof..
talk about excited.
i agree there are grumpy operators.. mostly on the HF bands from my exp! I just moved to Texas from Michigan (temporary) and knowing knowbody in the area, I loaded a few local repeaters into the radio.. and sure enough I found a great bunch of guys that are super willing to help.. just renews my faith in the hobby.. in fact tomorrow morning I'm going to meet those guys (who happen to be VE's and take a shot at upgrading to general)
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Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NM2K on September 20, 2010
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Years ago, you could be a loner and still enjoy ham radio. It was easy to become absorbed into electronics, building projects, studying for a higher license test, etc. You could stay absorbed in the hobby and not have to talk to anyone. Then, one day, electronics and the code disappeared. What now? Anyone could become an Extra in a short time. There was nothing left to study. The local electronics parts store wasn't. It was now just another department store. What to do? Fortunately, we humans are creative creatures. We soon found that getting on the air/internet and complaining about the latest no-talent/skill hams was a terrific hobby all by itself.
Ed, NM2K
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by N1YE on September 20, 2010
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Ham Radio Dying? Are we serious? Heck...I've been a ham since 1972. I'm having more fun today than I ever have!
Sure, I enjoyed the old classic rigs with their big toggle switches and vacuum tubes...J38 keys..paper logs..etc, etc.
But I like today! I like modern rigs with multiple VFO's and computer interfaces. I like computer networks and working in multiple operating systems. I love contesting with multiple radios integrated into a system through the software and interfaces. I like making circuit boards with modern techniques. I like computer models that tell me how an antenna is going to perform before I roll out any wire. I like tools like the Internet to help me research any question that I may have.
Ham Radio is not dying! Ham Radio is better than ever!
Its more complex. Its more scientific and less magical.
I know that CW died a long time ago. Somebody forgot to tell all of the DX contesters this last weekend that their hobby is dead.
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RE: Give Ham Radio a Break
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by NO6L on September 21, 2010
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As for the original author, you don't have to worry. Amateur Radio is not going anywhere soon. The Internet and cell phones are not a substitute for it, they are different worlds. Worlds that benefited directly or indirectly from Amateur Radio, but still other worlds. I see you also learned from your Field Day experience. That is what Amateur Radio is about, learning.
Then we have the types that say the Internet is the Internet and Amateur Radio is Amateur Radio and neither shall the twain meet. And if they do there will be some cataclysm to Amateur Radio. These luddites have my deepest pity. That is the same attitude that proclaimed non-damped wave, AM, RTTY, repeaters and the removal of element 1 would end it. I'll tell you what, ask an Amateur that is constrained to a life on the road or an apartment who remotes his/her HF station through the Internet if it's the end of Amateur Radio. They'll tell you, "If all you have is lemons, make lemon aid".
Finally, the "Woe is me, if Amateur Radio will not do as I say, I'll just leave" cry-babies. I say, "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out, that's more spectrum for me". You've got several choices; Change frequency, use your head for more than a place to loose hair. If there's a looser jamming you, QSY frequency *AND* sidebands. Change bands, if you're working HF and the other station is in range, go to VHF or UHF. God knows there are plenty of unused repeaters around. Change modes, jammers and CB types have a hard time with CW and the printed word, give the digital modes a shot. Change friends, because it may be they are who are attracting the lids and losers. Or, explore other interests so you don't burn out on Amateur Radio. Because that is probably what really happened. The fact is, there is vast regions of spectrum that are very little explored. 900 mhz for example. Or, take a trip to Amateur Radios past and explore 160m. You find very little, if any, "CB behavior" there. There's not enough room in mommies back yard for an antenna that big, or so they think. Don't you whine about antenna size, either. There are helically loaded and magnetic loop antennas aplenty to occupy your time and to this day, we are still trying to unravel 160m's propagational secrets.
That's my take, now go forth and explore.
/end of line
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