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Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:

George White (KD7YVV) on November 4, 2012
View comments about this article!

I've come up with an interesting idea. I just don't know how to start it or how to get the ball rolling so I figured I'd post here for ideas.

Naturally people know how a bucket brigade works. One person fills a bucket full of water and it gets passed to the next person in line until the water reaches the fire.

In this case, if hams on the west coast start putting together a small care package, it doesn't matter what it is, socks, toiletries, clothes....then they contact a ham east of them and pass the box along, and so on, until the box reaches the hurricane victims on the east coast. has a list of things that would be useful to people. Me, I think with the water levels as high as they got, clothes would be needed, as well as batteries, non-perishable food, etc. The Government, as large as it is can't do it alone.

With all the hams in this country, we could send quite a lot of things. We have the resources of eham and to look for hams near each of us. Even if you don't know that particular ham, it's a way to meet new people too. Most towns have a Goodwill or some sort of Salvation Army store in them. Lots of good wearable clothes can be bought there quite inexpensively. That's a source of supplies...

I'm curious as to what people think of this idea. It's called the Amateur Radio Service. Well, here's the chance to showcase the service part. I don't know if this is a dumb idea or not, but I figured I'd post. Thank you all for reading.

Member Comments:
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Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KE7FD on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
This is a great thought that could help many people and families in need. It might be something of a logistic burden to ship commodities from across the country to the affected areas even for the Salvation Army. Perhaps instead consult with relief agencies to see how best to get involved. It might be easier to donate to a reputable agency, one that is known and vetted to have them purchase and allocat those resources in a way that most of the commodities (or money that would be spent) gets to those affected rather than expelled in being transported. Groups like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross are much better at getting this type of relief allocated.

Just a thought.

Glen - KE7FD
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD7YVV on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
True, but like I said, the govt. etc. can't do it alone.
For instance, say I made a small box, passed it on to
you, and you added something and passed it on, and the
ham you passed it on to adds nothing but just passes it
on. I was thinking of the National Traffic System when
I came up with the idea, because I figured, why not?
Might work for small items....socks etc. etc. :)
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by WX7K on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
It seems like a very good idea on the surface. However, the victims need this stuff now, not in a few weeks. And it would take weeks to get stuff passed along. I think donating money to the Red Cross, Salvation Army, or any other aid group working in that area would be more efficient.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K9MHZ on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Don't mean to pile on, but money donation is what's needed.

Anecdotally, every time we had donations of items by noble, well-intentioned and patriotic Americans for guys deployed from our unit, it was a big logistical headache. It was the hardest thing to do to turn down items from church, Scouts, and civic organizations....they represent the best in America.

I like where your heart is.
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD7HVL on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
All the above are good ideas. Here is one more orginization you can add to the list. World care, I think it is They are based here in Tucson,AZ and many times ask the community for supplies for grief stricken areas world wide and here in the US. They alredy provide disaster releif for all the Hurricanes here in the US that I can remmber. If my memory servies me right there have been times they even managed to get the Airforce to fly out supplies.
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KK4GCY on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
This is a good idea at first thought but I was in Miami when we were hit by Andrew. Florida is a little better prepared for this type of disaster than NY. I was without power for around 48 days where I lived. During Katrina and Wilma I was out of power for 5 and 14 days respectively. So I can speak with some relevant point of view on the subject.

I have posted a link below of what happened after the storm to some donations. Please read it all the way to appreciate the situation faced by relief efforts.

I can attest that good intentions sometimes have negative results. This is why the ARRL has told hams to not self deploy. The wrong solution can cause a new problem. If you want to help it would be better to donate funds that can be used where needed the most. Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc... Just make sure the donations are noted to go to the funds established for Sandy or they will be added to the organizations general funds. If they go into the general funds only a portion is used. The rest is used for admin cost etc..

After seeing the devastation I know what they are going through. Unless you lived through this type of event you really cannot comprehend the vast personal issues / logistics during recovery. This much damage will take months to recover from and a persons outlook on life will change.

My best wishes for a speedy recover from this tragic storm.

Read the link I posted above to see what happened to the donated items. Think about the logistics necessary to get the aid where it is needed, storage, and distribution.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD7YVV on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
An interesting read....
I know the logistics of things can be a nightmare
especially when everyone is talking to everyone else.
I do understand that supplies are needed now.
Granted, Hurricane Sandy has created a huge problem
that's going to go on for years. I do agree that it
could take weeks for something from the west coast
to reach the east coast the way I suggested, but a lot
of people tend to forget things once they fall to the
back burner of the news media. I know a lot of people
want to help and donations to the Red Cross etc.
are always a good thing. This disaster will certainly
last weeks. I don't know, I'm from NJ and I guess I'm
just frustrated I can't be with my family.

RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
nice idea.. but remember when you donate money to the red cross... which is a international org... you give it to them to use as THEY SEE FIT... even though you specify it to go to the area of interest.. Please remember that as we learned it the hard way when they took up two floors of a NY finest hotel... for their staff... all expenses paid.. and then diverted the money to some mission in a third world area. nice huh... their reply.. you gave it to us.. we can do with it as we see fit... (much better idea is to donate to the salvation army... least they are american group while the red cross is a international one based in FRANCE... go figure. I understand that only a dime on the dollar goes to where you want it.. the rest is eaten up internally in the orgs management)

As to the big government not doing it all.. golly gee we give billions (that with a B) to other countries... and you mean our government can't take care of our own... wow... thats enlightening...

Oh ya thats right .. how much did they, NY, donate to the earthquake relief... in california... yep one big goose egg... and now they want what??? here is a suggestion... send 'em all shovels.. and let 'em dig their own way out...

I think that the hams should... head east... (ARRL who) after all now they got out of the shower.. the freezer is about to open... and if big government can't do it... it will be up to the self motovated orange vested react hams to get in their and save lives... heaven knows the mayor and gov of NY just can't seem to find reality and be good boy scouts... being prepaired... wonder if it has to do with some sort of ego attitude ???

Carry on... as you were
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by WV9K on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Yup, I'd certainly donate to the Salvation Army LONG before the red cross would get a dime. SA donations get to those who need help while red cross may or may not, but will certainly allow those from the red cross to live in nice luxury while they show their presence.

Yeah, seen it, was disgusted by it.

SA is not just American IIRC, started in the UK long ago.

Be careful where you donate, the percentage from a lot of organizations that actually reaches the needy is disgustingly small.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by N4JTE on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Well I spent the the whole hurricane in Edgewater NJ just above Hoboken and the best thing anyone can do now is contribute to the Red Cross on line or by phone, the power is still out as of Sun evening, for 700,000 people and gas lines are horrendus.
Nothing in a box will get here in time, or be distributed in time to do any good.
Tnx for caring,
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by N3HAM on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I get updates throughout the day from family stuck in a coastal town from where I operated portable many times. You have to show ID to get in and out of town. The main need is for electricity, they are still without it. It may be a good idea after this to pressure your lawmakers to require gas stations to have back-up generators for the pumps. Luckily there is one supermarket that has a back-up generator and the let people charge their cell phones, which makes the argument for keeping a HARDWIRED landline phone, they never lost that. Sorry, I’m a retired phone guy. I give to the SA but this time the Red Cross got my help, they are there doing it. I don’t care what country they are based in. If you want to donate goods, there are always the charities in your own area serving those who are experiencing hard times. Lets face it, it can happen to anyone of us.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KA4NMA on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Another good group to donate to is the Southern Baptist Disaster Relief (SBDR) 100% of the money donated goes to relief not admin or salary. Check out SBDR has 45 units in the area. Units include feeding, showers, chainsaw and communications (yes ham radio) with 450 volunteers. They are currently cooking 300,000 meals with a goal of 450,000. The Red Cross does not cook, they deliver the SBDR cooked meals (and meals prepared by others).In some of Red Cross and Fema videos you will see the yellow shirts and yellow hats of SBDR voluntters.

Randy Ka4nma
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K9CTB on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
This is an excellent idea, George. I do agree with MHZ and others that money is much easier for us to collect and much easier for those in neeed to use.

If you are close enough to the affected areas where you could put together an efficient "bucket brigade" and use feedback to adjust what goes into the buckets, it is a great idea!

No matter how you slice it however, when I see people thinking as you folks are, it makes me very proud and honored to be a radio amateur! Those moments are sometimes fewer than I'd like, but nonetheless coveted.

RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 4, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I see on the news tonight that THEIR ARE HAMS WORKING THEIR... they were going door to door asking the elderly if they were in need.. and delivering meals to them. Hmmm wonder why the ARRL said not to go ? Clearly this shot showed several with ecom , orange vest and hand helds at the ready talking to someone back at a control...

Yes we saw the BRG helping other to get ready for the big storm coming. Strange that the red cross is delivering meals.. wonder if they are paying for 'em. On the news the red cross spokes person said off camera- that they were feeding the people. No mention of the BRG doing the cooking.

Yet you don't see the NY national guard set up camp and serving the survivors. where are they?

Others were talking today about how arizona and texas were staged to come help with power. But, were told to stay away???

strange thing going on their with the political powers who don't want to spend state money on their own people!!!!

News says next big storm hits on Wed of next week. ouch thats going to hurt. If I could go, I think I would volenteer my radio to one of the churches like BRG. From seeing the news, they do need help.

Again I can't see why the ARRL says to stay home when their IS A DAILY NEED from what I saw on the news. The reporter commented: where is all the help for these people. Hmmmmmm
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD2CYT on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
My wife and I had a storm surge and high tide at about 8:45pm on Monday night that resulted in about 2-3 feet of water on our first floor.  We also lost power at about the same time. The water receded completely by midnight. We lost a lot of personal belongings including furniture and since Tuesday we have spent our time salvaging what we could, hauling the rest into the driveway for disposal and cleaning and reorganizing.  We have extensive water damage to the first floor where the furnace and hot water heater, washer, and dryer were located and are now out of commission The house is starting to smell like wet sheetrock. Our power was restored at about 8pm on Friday night but the electrical service on the first floor is now all messed up.  The insurance company won't even send out a claims agent to our house since we did not have flood insurance so we'll have to rely on some help from FEMA.  

As for our two vehicles they are considered totaled by the insurance company and will be towed away after a valuation is determined. One of the cars was less than six months old with 4,800 miles and we were making double payments on it--Ouch. It’s almost impossible to get a rental car so we’ll get a lot of exercise walking to the stores, laundry, etc. About a third of my town (Bayonne, NJ) is still without power and there also has been some looting in the business districts. Gas lines are long with an odd/even system in place. Public transportation is still limited and the train line I normally take to work is still out.

I got my FEMA number on Friday night as soon as the power was restored.  FEMA people were also walking around my neighborhood on Saturday offering help for people to complete a hardcopy form if they didn't have power or phone service.  We asked how long it might be before we hear anything from FEMA and the answer was the standard "7 to 10 days" but they admitted it might be much longer given the volume of claims.
Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by WA4D on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!

A But as is so often the case in ham radio, a well intentioned bad idea.

Hams are not relief workers. Though they do love to proclaim themselves Emergency communicators.

Relief work is a serious logistical, communications, distribtuion, planning and coordinating project. Waaay beyone the ability of Ham radio operators. Look to Haiti and many African states where Billions in Aid has been wasted.

Instead of trying to put together a group of mis guided hams.......find a credible relief agency to sponsor your efforts and funnel through them. Yes, there will be waste (there always is) but it will be far more effeictive than a Ham radio operator initiated effort. Like the ARRL says, "Just stay home"


RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by KD7YVV on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Actually Mike, many hams are capable.
As far as misguided goes, I wasn't talking about a whole
bunch of hams heading for the east coast.
The ARRL is wise to tell hams not to deploy.
First off, resources would have to be allocated to
getting them set up etc. etc.
However, my point still stands that while a box may take
weeks to make it across the country, I'm sure it would
be welcome even weeks after the storm.
I'd like to reply to Mike, WA4D on a couple of points
he made.

"Hams are not relief workers. Though they do love to proclaim themselves Emergency communicators."

Mike, there are many hams who do train many times a
year to be helpful in a disaster or other emergency.
Just because a person is a ham doesn't mean they can't
help set up cots, hand out water etc. etc.

Relief work is a serious logistical, communications, distribtution, planning and coordinating project. Waaay beyond the ability of Ham radio operators.

Actually I'm sorry you feel that just because a person
is a ham operator Mike, that they cannot be useful.
While hams may pride themselves on their skills as
communicators, often hams can and do help in times of
need. I don't know about anyone else, but I can unload
a truck of water or food as well as the next guy.
Just because a person is a ham operator, their ability
to think, reason, and work out problems are suddenly
taken away from them? That's a bit of a stretch for me
to believe. In fact, in many cities, amateur radio
operators even figure into their disaster plans and
have a place under the Incident Command System.

Look to Haiti and many African states where Billions in Aid has been wasted.

You cam blame a lot of government red tape for that.
Even here in the USA, things get fouled up in red tape.
So, how are the hams responsible for that?

Instead of trying to put together a group of mis guided hams.......find a credible relief agency to sponsor your efforts and funnel through them. Yes, there will be waste (there always is) but it will be far more effective than a Ham radio operator initiated effort. Like the ARRL says, "Just stay home"

I hardly think hams are misguided Mike. If you don't
mind my asking, if hams are so misguided, then why
are you one? If a ham comes upon an accident, and
someone is bleeding and that ham has a first aid kit,
he should wait for a professional responder to put
pressure on the wound to stop the bleeding.
That just doesn't make sense.
Many news organizations have said, that the USA has
never seen a storm like Sandy before, and the damage
is unlike any seen, even after Katrina.

I do agree that hams from outside the affected area
should not go there unless called. As a matter of fact,
it is even taught in the courses provided by the ARRL
that hams should not self deploy. Even though I am
originally from New Jersey, and I have family there
still, me going there would only cause me to be a
burden on my family (even though they would never admit
it) and use whatever resources they have.

I'm sure once the postal service is back up and running
in the area, people from around the country will be
sending boxes to family back east, and it's not just
hams that will be doing so.

It's going to take time Mike, weeks, months, and even
years to recover from this, and I'm sorry, but even
relief organizations like the Red Cross and Salvation
Army have their limits. Hams should not just show up
and say, what can I do? There is a system in place,
a chain of command if you will. By following that
system, hams can do their part as well.

What can I do all the way here in WA? 10 packages of
socks in a box went out this morning to a friend of
mine in NJ who wasn't hit so bad. How long it will
take to get there? Who knows? Will it help? Hopefully.

RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by AA4PB on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
"Again I can't see why the ARRL says to stay home when their IS A DAILY NEED"

They didn't say "stay home", they said don't "self deploy". In other words, don't just show up with no planning or coordination. Well intentioned people often show up intending to help but don't bring enough supplies to even support themselves. As a result resources needed for the people who live there end up being used to support the unprepared "helpers". They become part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by WA4D on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!

We just have different points of view. I'm a "ham" because I enjoy RF devices and technology. To me, Ham radio is largely a frivolous hobby, a waste of time and money and sometimes fun. It's not a calling or an identity or some sort of "cult".

You clearly have a different view. And good for you. And Emcomm is something you and a small percentage of hams engage in.Drive on!

I have zero interest in participating in Emcomm.

Cheers from LA
RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by MAGNUM257 on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
It's topics like this that bring out the BEST in our hobby. I'm sure it was not what George intended when he wrote the article.
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD0REQ on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I think what's going to be needed most is new furnaces and electrical entrances for the homes that are just flooded. these folks need their heat on or you can write off the salvageable homes.

this is beyond Red Cross, which is structured to meet immediate needs. it's beyond the capabilities of the local contractors from the sheer numbers of jobs.

I think somehow the trade unions are going to have to spearhead that one, and when they do, we need to open our checkbooks. going to have to be some half-day or one-day local code training, and then bully through it two or three systems a day per crew.
RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by KD7YVV on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!

AA4PB said:

"Again I can't see why the ARRL says to stay home when their IS A DAILY NEED"

I have to add to this that hams that go in without any
sort of coordination or planning are a security risk.
First off, the emergency responders and other agencies
there don't know you from Adam. Suppose for instance,
you show up, and someone has an injury that you treat.
Now that injury is worse because of your treatment.
The city gets sued, possibly you do as well.

Suppose you get hurt while you're there, who do you
turn to when a medical bill becomes tens of thousands
of dollars? The city you were "helping" in?
They're not going to help. As I said, they don't know
you from Adam.

Hams that are in the local area who are trained to serve
their local agencies usually have a memorandum of
understanding with those agencies. I know where I am,
when my local ARES is activated by the city, I'm covered
under their insurance should anything happen.
This is the reason rule #1 is DO NOT EVER self-deploy.

The local chain of command will go with the people it
knows, the local hams who have an MOU. Then, if
outside help is needed, then it will be called in
through the proper channels. Since 9/11 all agencies
follow the Incident Command System and in some cities
hams are a part of this system. Even though I have
the proper training etc. it would be against my training
to offer my help without proper authorization from
my local ARES here in WA. Yes, the need is great, and
the problems won't be fixed overnight, but I will not
under any circumstances ever self-deploy.
You might try looking into some local training to
find out how things work. The ARRL has many resources
if you're interested in emergency communications.
You learn quite a lot, believe me. Even though I have
the proper training, I'm always learning something new.
Am I worried about my family and what will happen in
the weeks and months that will go by? Of course I am.
One of the things learned in the courses are, make
sure you and your immediate family are safe first.
Try contacting the League, or look for a local CERT.
They'll get you pointed in the right direction.
RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by KD7YVV on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
We just have different points of view. I'm a "ham" because I enjoy RF devices and technology. To me, Ham radio is largely a frivolous hobby, a waste of time and money and sometimes fun. It's not a calling or an identity or some sort of "cult".

Well Mike, I do have an interest in emcomm as I told
AA4PB. Am I "on" all the time? Awww hell no....
I think that would drive me absolutely sane sitting
around waiting for a disaster. I enjoy a good ragchew
and contest as much as any other ham. I was just
curious as to why you thought all hams weren't capable.
True, there are some hams who take things way too far.
I'm glad for the days when my local ARES ISN"T called.
That's pretty much all the time. However, it's nice
to be prepared, and the stuff I've learned can be used
to help others. I try to learn something new every
day if I can. For some hams, emcomm/cert offers a
fascinating opportunity to learn how to help in
a crisis. I tend to live by the Amateurs Code.

You clearly have a different view. And good for you. And Emcomm is something you and a small percentage of hams engage in.Drive on!

I have zero interest in participating in Emcomm.

Hey, nothing wrong with that Mike, some people just
don't do the emcomm thing. Some like packet, others,
CW. Some like SSTV and some are into contesting to
the point that they just can't wait for the weekend.
Even though the code isn't required anymore, I'm
learning it because it's an interesting mode.
Frankly, I wasn't into emcomm when I first got my
license either. Then the 2001 Nisqually Earthquake
scared me silly. :) Never was in one before but
lemme tell ya, if I wasn't already on the porcelain
throne, I'd have probably crapped my drawers. :)
There's something for everyone in this hobby.
I'm just glad it's given me the opportunity to meet
a very wide, diverse group of people.

Cheers from LA

Right back at ya, from the land of liquid sunshine. :)

Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K9CTB on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I know. I've already posted once. But I wanted to respond to some of the naysayers and people who make fun of the hams that are actually helping out there. They guys who have the "go" boxes and the MREs and orange vests, etc.

Hey, it's okay if it's not your cup o' tea.

You guys *do* know that being a "pool of trained operators" for "emergency communications" is the basis for why we have our bands, right? I mean, dude! If another service did it better than we can, it's only the stroke of a pen and there would be no more amateur radio. I hope we're remembering this.

73 es thanks to all the hams out there helping the victims of Sandy. I'm sure most of them don't care whether the "journalists" get the story right. Fact is, more often than not, they don't!

RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KW4JX on November 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Put the cables underground
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K1CJS on November 6, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
It's sad how this articles responses have shifted to yet another entirely different topic. That is only one reason why all too many officials don't want ham wannabees anywhere near the disaster areas. The wannabees can't keep their minds on what has to be done.

No matter who you give the donations to, try to make sure that those donations go to the ones in need--and the best way to do that is to get the specific address of some relief organization that is actually doing things in the relief area--an address that is specified for that relief effort--and mail your donation there.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KB2CPW on November 6, 2012 Mail this to a friend!

I'm in NJ, Hams around here participate in drills, nets and traffic handling often taking over entire repeater systems, bumping people off of simplex frequencies in order to conduct these nets. Then when disaster strikes, they are nowhere to be found. Crickets, that's all I hear. It's all horse doody designed to make hams feed better about themselves and it gives them the opportunity to wear orange jackets and set up elaborate government funded stations in OEM's in every county.

I am driving around giving people drinks and cooking up a storm to feed displaced people, running around for fuel and keeping generators going and working my job in between. There isn't enough of me to go around. One or two hams showing up to man radios doesn't help anyone.

Do everyone here a favor and look up a local church in the area, find out what they are doing and send them a check. Other than that, I only trust the Salvation Army, every other charity, you are throwing money in the crapper.
the angst! the "saddness"! the need to be useful!  
by WA4D on November 6, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
KB2CPW's remarks are insightful and drama free. Thanks for a dose of reality.

Reading this thread has been amusing. The hand wringing, the wailing, the urgency. The "saddness" of it all. How ridiculous. What's "sad" about it?

The affected areas are part of a nation that was once thought to be invincible. Now the culture of Government can fix anything has taken over. We are victims! Save us they cried. Press accounts note that many of those who died were warned to leave (Staten Island). They didn't. Now they are dead. Many of the homes in the most heavily damaged areas were of poor construction built as "summer" homes decades ago. And of course the Government solution of "Public housing" is also in chaos.

Amidst all this comes the Ham Community like the kid at the back of the room in grade school, anxiously waving his hand! "I know the answer teacher! Please call on me!" Ham radio operators want so badly to be relevant. When indeed they are not.

Over the weekend I heard a NYC based ham lament how little Hams had to do with respect to Sandy. {one wonders why anyone would need Hams?). He went on to say that he was in a "competing" Emcomm group to the one using a particular repeater site in "support" of a relief organization. I asked "what does that mean? competing?" He responded it was "too sensitive to talk about on the air"! I burst out laughing. This is the Ham Radio of Public Safety!!! As a previous respondent noted, many public officials do not want Hams to assist in their efforts.

This is a result of the Newington based propaganda stream and the delusions of those who buy into it.

As for the so called "victims" of Sandy. (Much of it self inflicted) --- Get on with life. And don't call on Ham Radio ops. They're too busy being "sad"!
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by TTOMAS59 on November 6, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
It's midnight Tuesday and according to the experts on tv Obama has been reelected. But only 80% of the vote has been counted in Ohio.
It won't surprise we if we wake up tomorrow and Romney is the winner. It has happened before.
Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by TTOMAS59 on November 6, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
My belief is to help where I can mostly with people in my own orbit who try to help themselves. Basically we all get what we deserve because we don't prepare, we don't heed warnings, or we wear rose colored glasses and we don't believe it can happen to us.
Death is waiting to reap who it may. The people I care most about are childen but even then you don't who they will become.

It's all in God's hands. Ham radio for me is a fun hobby. I suppose if I saw an accident I would call for help on my cell phone.
RE: the angst! the "saddness"! the need to be use  
by K1CJS on November 7, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
WA4D, The "saddness" (sp) has nothing to do with the hams--or others--who are trying to help the victims. The sadness has to do with how people go off topic and throw your own BS into discussions like this one. As usual, your inane comments serve only to stir the pot, you don't offer creative suggestions.

Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K9JCS on November 7, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I stopped giving to the Red Cross years ago after discovering who they really help. Charity Navigator reports that Red Cross CEO Gail McGovern receives an annual salary of $501,122. I want my money to help those in need, not a highly paid CEO. Look for a charity with low administrative costs. There are plenty of them out there.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KW4JX on November 7, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Mandate back-up generators for gas stations
RE: the angst! the "saddness"! the need to be use  
by KD7YVV on November 7, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Well, I am quite amazed at the turn the original
thread has taken. Yes, there are some hams who know
all the answers and no one will tell them different.
Yes, there are hams that only know how to get in the
way and get nothing done. Yes, there are hams that
have no interest in emcomm. And finally, yes, there
are hams that do take the time to learn things other
than operating a radio. Here where I am, I have to
consider the fact that an earthquake, a tsunami, or
a volcano can blow its top. Does it hurt to be prepared?
Of course not. All I know is, there are people back
east that really don't have a lot of things right now,
and old man Winter will come a knocking.....
It was one of the reasons I started this thread.
As I write this, NJ is expecting some snow. Not a lot,
but if it's cold enough to snow, then the people who
are miserable, are going to be even more so.
And yes, even weeks from now, people will need things.

RE: the angst! the "saddness"! the need to be use  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 8, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Well while ham radio ops are contemplating the lint in their navel and listening to the ARRLs tripe. here is a group that probably could use some ground com and help. They have been going the distance. Ham radio could be a valuable asset to help these people get the right goods to the right places in working with them. But, as we have seen. Hams today are not cutting it. Yes big government only wanted your vote after that, you know the rest of the story. (grin and bear it) The rest is so much hot air, so to speak. Thank you all.

Over the past two days, another 3,000 lbs of donations have been received by our distribution groups. People sometimes ask how fast the donations get to the people and hope their efforts are worthwhile. For instance, David H. flew a Baron G58 from Colombus Ohio yesterday into FRG filled with 105 Winter Jackets. They are being picked up this morning and distributed today before the storm arrives. With smaller quantities, the donations are normally utilized more quickly. Michael M. flew a C210 filled with Cereal (provided by our friends at Feed the Children) from Elkhart IN to NJ. It was at the shelter in Tom's River the same day.

We all know that roads are open and people can drive supplies in and we have utilized this method also to support our distribution routes. Today two vehicles will drive jackets into NJ to meet up with our volunteers. Whether people want to help by driving or flying, we provide a route for people to contribute in the way that feels right for them.

Today 700 lbs of donations will be transported on a Hawker 800XP and a Falcon 50 into LCI and BOS. We are looking for connectivity to get it to NY or NJ. So, if you would like to take a flight or drive from BOS or LCI to NY or NJ, please email

On Friday at 0900, we have over 8 aircraft flying from Newport RI (UUU) to FRG. Donations have been collected by the people in the town and the effort is being spearheaded by Graeme S. if you would like to participate on Friday, please email

The impending storm is going to determine how we proceed moving forward. If we see there are gaps in critical supplies, we will try to fill them but whether it is by aircraft or car will be up to our volunteers.

Thank you all for the time, effort and money you have put forth to help our fellow Americans.

Thank you to all who have participated in the AERObridge Hurricane Sandy Relief Efforts. Sunday, November 4th we had over 40 aircraft fly into FRG, MJX and 31E and have directly provided over 40,000 lbs of relief donations to NY and NJ.

A big thank you to the Aviation Member Organizations, especially AOPA, EAA and NBAA. We would like to thank US Airports in Rochester and Million Air in Albany for collecting donations. We would like to thank Atlantic Aviation in Farmingdale, Ocean Air in Tom's River and the people at Eagle's Nest Airport.

So many individuals are stepping up and we are all working to make a difference when our own fellow Americans need help. As one of our colleagues pointed out, "if the situation were flipped, we would want others helping us."

AERObridge has coordinated both aircraft and vehicle delivery of targeted supplies. Thank you to Steve LaCrosse who drove all through the night in his refurbished military transport truck.

Business Aviation and General Aviation have once again shown the Nation the power and strength of our industry.

Flight operations will be winding down this week as trucks will be arriving early in the week from many of the major aid agencies. AERObridge will continue to assist its Partners by connecting to donations that are already locally staged as well as be available to fly in strategic donations that are not available until ground trucking can resupply.

AERObridge is operating relief missions into 3 airports in the NY/NJ area. We have ground recipients in place to accept and distribute the needed donations. The 3 airports are FRG, MJX and 31E. The following donations are needed specifically for each location:

Farmingdale (FRG)

* Winter Jackets
* Flashlights/batteries
* Sleeping bags

Tom's River, NJ (MJX)

* Winter Jackets

West Creek, NJ (31E)

* Winter Jackets

Please coordinate all missions through AERObridge so we can work with ground distributors and know what needs are met and which are outstanding.

We are in need of aircraft to fly donations located in Jasper AL and Charleston SC. Donations will be in Laconia NH after 6pm on Tuesday and need to move to FRG if anyone can help.
RE: the angst! the "saddness"! the need to be use  
by N4JTE on November 8, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you for for all the coordination and hard work, btw, the snow, 5 ins already melted, small miracles in biblical weather !
bob, edgewater nj.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
amazing. First the ARRL says don't deploy and now they want you to take this course.
ARRL offers online training for hams who want to participate in the Amateur Radio Emergency Service.

The time for training is before a disaster...not during one.
Two courses make up the ARRL ARES training program. Enroll Today!
The course is offered online using the Moodle learning platform. The Introduction to Emergency Communication course has six sections with 29 lesson topics and a 35 question final assessment. Participants should plan on completing the course in approximately 45 hours over a nine week period. This is a mentored course, in which you may work according to your own schedule. Cost is $50 for ARRL members and $85 for non-members.

wow amazing that they say one thing and promote this. Something about money money ?
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by K2WH on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Anyone notice how many or should I say how few foreign contries came to our aid? I know Canada did. How many others? Think about it.

Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KD2E on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I am on the Jersey Shore, Toms River, NJ...pretty much the bulls-eye of the hurricane. Fires are starting all night long, most of the town is still without power...although sections are going on bit by bit. Most everyone I know can not use their house, they are still ripping up carpet, and busting up sheet-rock. Many can not return to their houses. If you want to help...and you understand the known fact that Red Cross donations do not make it to those in need..Here are two choices. I checked this afternoon. The Fire Department needs only three things
1. 5.11 Tactical boots. They gave all their spares to fire and emergency crews helping from all over the country
2. CO/Fire alarms ..battery run. No electricity, many CO poisonings from generators venting into the house 'cuz the AC-run alarm has no power
3. Kitchen/home fire extinguisher
The local depot for common home supplies being gathered by the Church said they need.....
Bottled Water
Baby food/formula
diapers, all sizes
baby wipes
black trash bags
blankets and comforters
non-perishable food
For the fire department.....
For the church.......

If you feel ok with it..I'll bring any of that
stuff over if you would rather send it to me and my QRZ/callbook address.
Thanks Hams!!!
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KA4NMA on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
The Red Cross does not cook meals. They only serve the meals such as those prepared by Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and other groups. SBDR is cooking 275,000 meals per day at various sites in the disaster area. Look for the yellow shirts and hats of the SBDR. Check out

Randy Ka4nma

RE: Hams aren't capable of Sandy Relief beyond talking  
by KA4NMA on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Mike, The Southern Baptist Disaster Relief team trains hams for communication needs. Hams are used in the area of logistics. Some are cross trained in other areas such as mass feeding. They are also used to serve meals and with IT needs. Check out I have been trained in both mass feeding and communications. All training needs to be recertified every 2 years. Since I am disabled I cannot be deployed but am part of the "home guard" which is nothing more than a relay station.

100% of donated funds go to relief efforts.

The Salvation Army also uses hams for the SATURN division.

The ARRL is not the only ones to use the service of hams.

Randy ka4nma
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by STRAIGHTKEY on November 9, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
"Anyone notice how many or should I say how few foreign contries came to our aid? I know Canada did. How many others? Think about it."

Alot of countries came to our aid after 9/11. Bush threw away their support with dumb bullheaded statements and actions.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by AE6RV on November 10, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
As an uninvolved bystander, I have to question the role of amateur radio during a disaster in the modern world. Certainly when communications systems go down, then we have a role. But, did that happen with Sandy? There's a lot of money floating around in the Northeast, and I would suggest that that, and the vertical architecture, would mediate the need for an emergency communications task force. In other places and at other times, I would think that volunteer communicators, i.e. hams, might often have an important role.

There is an article floating around on the net right now titled "The Disaster After The Disaster". It discusses the chaotic impact of unwanted and undirected volunteers in time of disaster. The bottom line is if you're part of a qualified group, and if your group is activated by relevant authorities, then certainly get involved. Otherwise, stay at home; it's unlikely that you can contribute to anything other than the general chaos. If you really, really, really must help, then find an aid group that is permanently engaged in disaster relief and support them - whether through donating your time or your money. Yes, there is a lot wrong with (insert aid agency name here) but they are there for every disaster, and they are part of the solution, not contributing to the problem.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 10, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
actuallyyyy... they (the RC) are not their to help but to make a media showing. All this while the un reconizedddd smaller groups do their work for 'em and then the RC comes in and collects the glory. (from what we have seen)

They always have their hand out. Wanting you to help 'em out. Yet after 911 where is the money? You say their are always their!! true but the staff taking up a whole floor of a ritz hotel and having steak and lobster meals is not helping anyone while they help the police and fire dept (which are tax paid) by buying them Mc D's food. Sorry been their done that. Know first hand how the RC works from VN on thru a few disasters. They are their for the bux's ONLY and promote non-paid volenteers to do their dirty work. Maybe they used to be good but, today NOT!!!!

Yes I have to agree. Where is the National guard, the cities emergency services and coordination by them to take care of their own resident tax payers.

Most of the cities that we have asked don't seem to care about emergency services. They are to involved with funding problems of their own and as such think that the residents will help each other out so they don't have to. Then again relying on the government to help or do it for you is a big deal today. Higher taxes (and boy are they going to go up) cause people to think that the government is going to provide. NOT!!

Thus, the un-tax funded relief groups are left to support the residents. Assistance from church or volenteers such as the hams and social groups are what the cities rely on for support. Thus we see the southern baptist doing a great job. They saw and had forethought of how it would be needed. (unlike the high paid political leadership (its a joke) that ARE supposed to have a plan but seem to lack leadership until the media shows up and again claim 'under their admin look what we are doing for the people', pointing to the indipendent relief groups.

I can see where hams need to merge with other groups these days. The ARRL is very impotent and otherwise despickable in their call to glory or controling hams. Again they take credit. Sell books on the subject, written by leaders of the Churches/assisting groups as to what was needed and what worked without compensation to the leaders/groups. No instead they pocket the profits for their pay. (the ARRL really IS a business)

As one can see the aviation vol'trs seemed to have their act togeather until the commercial people can come in and assume the position of support for profit. (grin)

But, without commucations yes it can't happen. You could use the phone, cell or sat to get the word out but ham radio seems to be the methode of choice because it doesn't over burden the commercial systems. I know when the SFO earthquake happend the phone company would let you call out of the area but, not back in 'all lines are busy- try your call later' was the response 95% of the time. Ham radio however, was direct, effecent and like the military com pointed without much hassle or problems. Operated and maintained by the hams themselves it IS a better system during the first few days. But, it also needs command logistics leaving the commucations to the people in radio to support them.

However, if you watch the video of the volenteers from the SB and SA you will see that they are also collecting data from the people, providing support by being their daily and making their rounds with the group providing food and other stuff. (The system is from the outside in mostly and insuring that the support supplies are un-intrupted requires commucation/hams and others) Some of this data is then used by the city/county/state to determine what should be needed as resources/equipment become streched.

But, hams are not just radio jockies. The radio becomes a TOOL in the toolbox sort of thing. Hams are social members helping others when the govern' leadership seems to have it head up and locked while counting their money that they WILL HAVE TO SPEND and as we have seen go very quiet. (remind you of schrrrogggeee) grin.

Hams/ operators also do other functions. Cooking, dishes, etc... as people who are effect'ed also have a attitude problem as to where is their tax dollars support. I have worked in the mess tent... only to see effect'ed people think that they don't need to clean up after themselves or complain about the quality of the food. ingrates. Yes Some seem to be just a little bit self centered, conseated is more like it.

This really makes you want to help 'em out, when they bitch at you for little things that they should be doing themselves. (such as picking up their own tray after eating and clear it off. Some just leave after eating and think you are supposed to service 'em like a restraunt. This, typically, is just a example of the caliber of people that your trying to help???

Needless to say my interest in helping out in times of emergency is only for the KIDS. Parents don't seem to care much about anything else.

Not to say that some are VERY GRAT'FUL. I have run into those who are effect'ed and they jump in to help out without asking for anything. Those are far and few between. A majority, of the rest, from what we have seen have a self centered SERVICE ME ego. I won't mention the handicap and their so called demands. thinking they are entitled to prefer treatment because THEY THINK they are more important.

Just some observations after being in a few disasters.

Ham radio ops are needed for commucations and when not commucating- helping support other needed areas. If they are their to just "save the day" ego. Your not wanted. If your their to work and help out- atta boy and thanks. I don't care what the ARRL says- the self motivated ARE the good guys and should, if they can, help and sit home. The rest can buy the ARRLs book and THINK they are ready. ARE THEY REALLY??? most fail the field day testing due to lazyness. This then reflects when the real thing happens.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KE5JDJ on November 11, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
I got to play in Katrina. The federal government (FEMA) was supposed to be fixed after Bush was gone. It's a joke to think any government or organization can sweep in and fix anything instantly, which is why it was so disingenuous to attack a former administration...not that it was without problems to be sure. However...people have to have their brain in gear and not be dependent on others to save them. Period.

Help one another is a good thing and the most effective thing. There's a place for Hams...just make certain you are 100% self-sufficient with housing, food, water and transportation so as not to be a burden. Relying on a false belief you will be immediately and totally rescued shows a lack of responsible thinking. I heard residents pleading with Mayor Bloomber for a little water and food...sad.
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by BOYSCLUBRADIO on November 11, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Problem is... you can't do it within. It has been proven that a emergency has limited resources at the point of it.

YOU have to have, or should have, resources from outside the effected area that can be brought in to re-establish normality, to a point.

Hams rolls, it would seem, then is to set up commucations (teletype or other error free digital high speed mode) from the area so as to pass the necessary information to the outside. resources then select what they need and push into the effected area. Simple as 1,2,3

Yet even the RC does not seem to be prepaired. (they just want cash so they can BUY NEW what THEY need while over 90% of the money raised goes elsewhere it seems. The words from the RC once spoken-- you gave it to us; its ours to spend as WE want to-- you have no more control over it once you gave it to us SO ---don't tell us how we should spend it!!!!)

While church groups and others DO accept donations of what is needed. because they are in the area. They then ask for these items from the outside.

(You have to remember that a natural disaster is a money maker for some ORGS and cities. They want the people to whine to the media so as to bring more money to 'em. Basically use the effected poor people to get what the elete's want-- more money)

So depending on each other in the area is a good effort but without outside rescue or replacement= your doomed to have a quick recovery.

their are some basice building block needs that should be automatic.
first off fuel, then medical, then food shelter and welfare which includes housing from the environment.

None of these seem to be on the city fathers mind. (You notice that they are warm, well fed and ride around in lemo's while the people who pay for their leadership are starving and frozen in tents) Nor did city fathers want aid from military disaster relief. That would have cost 'em money)

What we are seeing now on TV is the collaps of the system to provide a seconday emergency response. (first was the hurricane the second was the freeze)

amazing that no one in the political leadership has enough smarts to figure it out what to do --yet we pay them the big bux too. FEMA has turned into a big CORP. MANAGEMENT ORG. They haven't got a clue as what to do- nor now that the elections are over- CARE. They got your vote - their job is done

From what we have seen- emergency services is a joke today. Yet everyone THINKS the government is taking care of them because they pay their taxes (and a lot more)

Just my two cents worth of observations
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by KJ6MYT on November 12, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
Let me know if your community needs anything from out west. I can't guarantee anything but I have some connections that might work
RE: Hams for Hurricane Sandy Relief:  
by WG2W on December 5, 2012 Mail this to a friend!
As a ham and proud Red Cross volI wish you would join the thousands of us who have responded to the need from Sandy. I have been privledged to serve all across the South on 7 Disaster Responses and for Irene and Sandy. During most of those responses I have enjoyed the generosity of southerns who have opened their churches and civic centers, and even jails during katrina for staff shelters during our 2 to 3 week committment.
It is unfortunate you had such a negative experience with the Red Cross. I can not change what may have happened in the past nor would I ask you not to voice your opinion. I may disagree with it but your right to speech is one of the rights we who served fought for. I hope you find a way to serve others who are in need.
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