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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!

KD5FEX (KD5FEX) on December 29, 2002
View comments about this article!

The quickest way to discourage a new Ham is to tell them you don't need the grid they are in. I have had this happen to me before. Lots of folks are working a good band opening and you attempt to make a contact, and then the voice on the other end says, "I don't need your Grid". Well, that is just fine -- but folks in the hobby who have not been around for a hundred years just might need your grid....

Remember once upon a time when you were new to the hobby and were just happy to make a new contact in a grid that you had never worked before?

The same thing applies to states and counties too. Not everyone has worked every county or every state. Many new Hams (and some older ones) haven't had the time to work and confirm these counties and states, and many are afraid to ask for the information or for a QSL card, due to the fact that many other ops are quick to say, "I don't QSL" or "I don't need that information".

Why can't we be happy with each and every contact that we make? Even if it is the first contact with a new state or the 100th contact with that same state? Why is there a need to inform others in a rude fashion that you do not need the calling station's information? Why not let the new guys have the same fun and opportunities that you had when you were just starting out? This is supposed to be a fun hobbyÖ

Member Comments:
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I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KD5SCG on December 29, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I find that CW will filter out that kind of LID. I have never once been told by a CW op that they don't wan't to QSO. --... ...-- kd5scg
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by CURMUDGEON on December 29, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I've not ever observed this problem but it wouldn't surprise me considering how rude and inconsiderate modern humanity has become. Rather than dwell on it, I'd move on and ignore it. Its not good to be so sensitive and thin skinned that one bruises easily over every slight, real or imagined. Lifes too short.
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by W7MEM on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
It can happen anywhere in Hamradio!! I have a guy in the south who I have worked on 432 and 2M EME (cw) after 3 sase's and e-mail's. He has made it clear he MAY QSL when in rest home and near death. I have written him off as a Non amateur.Just in the Hobby for $$$$$$$$$$
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA9SVD on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
This has been an ongoing theme. For myself and most others, routine HF contacts don't usually get QSL'd unless specifically requested. If I get a QSL, I will return one as soon as I can. If I want a QSL, (say from a special event station) I will send one with a SASE (Self addressed STAMPED envelope.) Of course, then I expect the return QSL!!! If you need my grid, county,etc. for some award, let me know! If you send a QSL, I will ALWAYS send a QSL in return. Although I don't really chase QSL cards, I'll always send a QSL in response to a request.
If you need the grid square, county, or whatever, send a QSL with a SASE. Then if you don't get a response, you can assume the other operator is a "turkey." (You may substitute any word or words you wish)
I'm still waiting for my THIRD request (with postage provided) for confirmation of an RS-12 contact, after over a year. Since that satellite appears to be dead, it's my only way to document a contact through that satellite. Maybe the next time, I'll reveal the other station's call and hope SHAME will prompt the station to finally send a QSL. But I doubt it. (Even if he/she doesn't have QSL cards, they could at least indicate that in ONE of the SASE's I've sent.
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by K9PO on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
This whole QSl issue really bugs me. When I started in ham radio it was the norm to 100% QSL and unless you were a DX station one did not need to inlcude SASEs for a reply. Now I see and hear many stateside stations complaining that the cost of QSLing is too high! Come on it cost under a quarter to send a post card, if you have set up thousands of dollars of equipment you can afford to send some cards out. Even if one is a big station making many Q's 500 cards/year is $125! And think if you are getting cards back from these stations and not sending them SASEs it is really a wash, you send one you get one, it all works out even.

73
K9PO (100% QSLer)
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KB9YUR on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
QSL cards are part of this hobby. After a QSO with
a new station, I'll send my QSL card and SASE the
next day. Why it takes several months or in one case,
over a year to get a card back, is beyond me.
Maybe we should have a 'Shame' list of hams that
don't bother to return a QSL card (especially when
a SASE is provided) in a timely fashion.
Considering that hundreds, even thousands of dollars
are spent on radio equipment, QSL card costs are usually small in comparison.

 
I QSL 100%  
by W7XLR on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I only operate on 6M SSB and I send a QSL to any first contact even local. I'm new to it but seem to get about 40% return. I think that anybody who operates on any DX band should QSL if possible unless it's a regular net. In addition if you don't QSL or have any, at least say so if sent a SASE at least send it back and let them know you don't have any or whatever don't just be rude you can tell they really wanted one. What I really enjoy is when I send one to a new guy even local sometimes even 2M simplex, it has made me very happy to hear a new guy get excited about getting their first QSL card! I went a long time myself without cards, but I keep a list of callsigns and the first days my cards came I sat down and filled out 13 of them and handed them to the mailman to make sure they got in the system! QSL's are great for keeping the new guys interested. I try to get the nicest I can afford too, sort of think it would be nice if it's one of the ones somebody holds onto because it looks cool. Then who knows it may be in a vintage collection long after I'm gone and somebody will think about me for a moment just as I have done when I see some old QSL or old Key or something from the past and wonder about it's long gone past owner.
73, and please do QSL to people if you can......
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA8HHH on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
A QSL card is supposed to be the final courtesy. Rarely is there any necessity to be courteous upon the completion of a 20-second QSO designed as a contest exchange which is the "normal" exchange on most of the bands. So, lacking the need for courtesy, do one of two things: 1. Extend the length of your QSO so that you may actually get to know a little bit about the guy you want to exchange cards with. Perhaps you might even build the beginning of a friendship, learn something you didn't know, teach someone something he didn't know. This is called "communication". Or 2. send the guy a card, check the "Pse QSL" box and ask for that grid or 10-10 number or zone or whatever suits your fancy. I advocate the first method but expect the second will be the best suited for today's operation style.

As for me, if I want a card then I ask for one. If you're honest enough to say you don't "need" or want my card or don't return QSL's then I thank you since it will save me the cost of sending one and expecting a reply. If you ask for my card, I will take the time to fill one out when I receive yours. I've found a lot more "want" than "exchange" of cards over the last 40 years and have learned to husband my supply of cards and stamps carefully as a result. Some may find this to be unfriendly. I consider it merely being pragmatic. There was a time when every initial contact got a QSL card and they also got a Christmas card. However, postcards can't be mailed for 4 cents any longer.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by W8MMQ on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
This type of operation is quite evident on the six and two meter bands, where I primarily operate. Usually it is during a contest, when an operator is trying to collect as many points and as many grids as possible. Also during a band opening on six meters an operator may say things like this in an effort to only collect those grids he needs, because on six meters, you never know when the band is going to close up. There are legitimate reasons for operating this way, and realizing this, I don't consider it rude when I am told this.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N0SRQ on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I believe that a QSL card is an important part of the hobbie. I have sent and received cards on most bands but the majority has been on six meters. I have logged over 1200 contacts on the magic band from nearly 400 grids. I have only confirmed about 250. If someone needs my grid I am glad to return one as soon as it is received. If I need their grid I send the S.A.S.E. and have been quite successful at getting about 99% returned. The only complaint I have is some operators send their card as a post card stamped directly and often times they are not in very good shape when they arrive at my house. Some are torn, or get the postal machine stamp right across the qsl information making it difficult to read. I don't mind that they are not sent with a S.A.S.E. but I always return my card in an envelope to prevent any postal damage due to automated handling equipment. Thanks for your card if your one of the confirmed.
73 Ray
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by K3TKJ on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
As a 6 Meter station in a rare state ( Delaware), and a rare grid ( FM28fn ), a good opening will generate 50 to 100 qsl cards. I try to qsl 100% if I receive an SASE, otherwise I do not. The postage is the killer... I think the qsling process needs to be cost shared at the least.



 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N2MG on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
Not sure if the complaint is about not receiving a card for a QSO, or being turned down for the QSO in the first place.

I disagree that operating like this during a contest is "OK". Maybe this is a phone thing, or a VHF/UHF thing. Never heard it on HF or on CW. Call the guy a lid and go away.

Mike N2MG
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KG4NEL on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
As a frequent 6 meter SSB operator and relatively new ham, I've never noticed this problem, and I live in a pretty easy-to-get grid (FM06). I've had a few operators tell me that they don't need my QSL info, but they were nice about it. I certainly didn't feel insulted by it. I know I'm a newbie with only 30 or so grids confirmed, so I'm bound to need the other op's grid more than he needs mine.

73,

Jim
KG4NEL

...still waiting for 6 to open today...



 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by NU7T on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I use www.eqsl.org for foreign and domestic card exchange. Almost 200 cards received this way. I will also send out ARRL accepted qsl cards. QSL cards are often received within a day or two via eqsl. This exchange is building up it's own award program and is free !! If I owe you a card, e-mail me.
Steve, NU7T
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WN3VAW on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
Don't let those members of the Totally Worthless Incomprehensibly Thick-headed and the Rude Underhanded Dence Egalitarian groups get you down.

My club has a 2 meter simplex contest every year (up through last year FM only, this year we're adding SSB & CW because of the proliferation of rigs with that capability). When it's over, I always QSL 100%. Last year, about a week after sending the cards out, I got an email from a relatively new Tech who had NEVER gotten one before, and he was thrilled beyond belief!

Even if someone doesn't need your grid or whatever, if you send them a card, they ought to return the favor. Some don't know better. Some don't care. The former we can educate... the later belong to one of the aforementioned groups or others like them.

73, ron wn3vaw
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by K1MKF on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I love qsling! As I'm reading this I'm sorting through a couple dozen cards to go to the outgoing QSL bureau, ironically! I will qsl 100% if I'm asked on the air, sent a card or receive a SASE. I always send a SASE to US stations and a SAE and greenback to Canadian stations when I want their card. Everything else goes thru the "buro". If someone tells me on the air that they don't qsl I respect their decision, although I wish it were different. I've had some stations take years to QSL even with the SASE, including clubs. That I don't understand. My interest in qsling presently is WAS, DXCC and interesting DX. Someday I might be less enthusiatic but I hope I'll always take the time to qsl someone who wants my card.

As for that Delaware station, I still need you on 10m SSB!

Mark
k1mkf@arrl.net
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KF6IIU on December 30, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I have never received an unsolicited QSL or one from an op I did not send an SASE to. But, then, who needs another 6 from California!

I started out not knowing anything and for a few weeks I sent out cards without SASEs - nearly zero response rate. Now I figure I'm getting about a 75% response rate overall from direct requests with SASE or IRC/GS for new states or countries. I use the buro some, but I've only been DXing for a couple years, so the cards are just starting to trickle in from 2001 :-|

With postage what it is, an SASE for domestic QSLs and IRC/GS is a necessary courtesy, particularly for a rareish station. I have spent about as much on postage as on radio equipment.

The best response rates have actually been from big contest stations - almost 100% from contest stations with US managers.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KE8RO on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I like a few others, have yet to run into this. I operate mostly CW however, I do operate some SSB. I believe that most are good about sending QSL cards out. With postage fees going up every few years, the bureau is a great alternative. Many still request direct, especially overseas. I do not live in a location that is rare so I can't speak for those that do. The only thing that I would like to see is, if you plan on NOT QSLing should someone need your card, note it someplace! How about putting it on QRZ.com or Buckmaster? You can be nice about it by stating that you don't QSL. Most are going to look up your address using the internet anyhow and it sure would save those of us who do QSL a couple of envelopes, a QSL card, the postage stamps or $$ that was sent. Those who don't QSL have there reasons and they are entitled to that. I do QSL and I am proud to give my card to anyone who needs it just as the hundreds that I have received. I do chase paper and I want to thank all those that do QSL! Without your cards, the paper that is on my wall and I hope to have on my wall would not be possible. Best of DX to everyone in 2003!!
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N3JWJ on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
It is amazing how many topics end up as a discussion of QSL practices. Like NU7T, I prefer to use eQSL and I QSL 100% via eQSL.

I work PSK31 exclusively and have found that a majority of 'warblers' seem to use eQSL. It seems like some sort of self selection that folks that QSO with computers are more likely to use computers for QSL'ing.

I do have QSL cards and I respond quickly to SASE requests. Since I do not collect cards, I do not maintain envelopes at the buro. (Based on a suggestion earlier in this discussion, I will update QRZ.com to note that I do not use the buro.) At least once a year, I do send postcard QSL responses to cards received direct.

Before I answer a CQ, I check if a station is listed on eQSL. I only chase awards that accept eQSL confirmation, so I want to work stations that 'count' for me and I will 'count' for them.

Yesterday, I received an email from a South American station that has me in a quandry. This OM is a member of eQSL and we have traded confirmations earlier this year. His email says that needs a "real QSL card" and requests I send him a card via the buro. (I have no idea if he has sent me a card via the buro.) The tone was very demanding, without a "please" at all, but some of that could be lack of English skills. I am torn between sending a demand that he QSL direct first or just sending him a card directly.

 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA4MJF on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
Always remember and don't forget:

"The QSO ain't over 'til the paper
work is done!"


Note it sez paper not computer.

73 de Ronnie
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by W7XU on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
After reading the original posting twice, I'm left wondering if the writer misinterpeted the comment of "I don't need your grid."

I primarily operate on 6m from a somewhat rare state (South Dakota) and have been the 6m operator on a few DXpeditions (FY, 8R, CE0Y, 9G, CY9). Six meter openings can be short-lived, and it is not uncommon to have only a few minutes of propagation to some area. So to maximize the number of stations I work, I try to work them as quickly as possible. That means an exchange of callsigns, reports and rogers. You would not believe how many operators who hear me running a pile-up in such a manner will insist on also exchanging grid squares, weather, etc. I have told them "I don't need your grid" in order to work a few other stations before the band closes. They can get the grid square information from my QSL card. Insisting on receiving the grid over the air likely means that someone else isn't going to work that rare country. I've spoken with a number of 6m ops who have operated from rare locations whose experiences and sentiments are the same as mine.
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WB2WIK on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
For VHF-UHF operations, exchange of the grid square is perfectly adequate 99% of the time in lieu of any other location information, especially in contest-like situations or during periods of great and unusual propagation. In VHF-UHF contests, the grid square IS the exchange, and in some, it's the only exchange other than the callsign. It takes far more time to say "I don't need your grid" than it takes to simply provide yours. All 4-digit locators are two letters and two numbers and the most complicated ones might take one second to say.

I don't see the resistance to it.

For those grids falling across country borders, possibly both the grid and the DX entity should be given, unless the entity is clear from the callsign used (as it usually is).

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N2JDQ on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I cant believe what I am reading... a 6m Op, whom dosent give his Grid When working stations during band openings? WHAT!
We all know that vhf Propogates differently and oddly at times... the Grid square exchange is a supurb way to know EXACTALLY where the band is open to.. If I tell you N2JDQ 59 OVER... u dont even know what state im in.. so how would a " 6m Op " be able to make crutial heading and propogation predictions from that information.. now if I tell u N2JDQ 59 FN13.. that gives TONNES more usefull info... Im sorry I really dont mean to come off brash... or harsh.. but that just seems completly forien to me! Ive worked 6 meters for years.. and when working some one.. I always give grid square info... even on 52.525.

Well unfotunatally I have ranted off topic once again...
as far as QSL'ing goes... this is my rule...
If I need a card.. #10 w/sase To needed station
If I get a card with or withought sase.. it gets replyed to in the EXACT SAME fashion I recieved it.. ie. in an envelope or not.

Also.. I find it in the spirit of our hobby to personally sign all my cards, with a small note, refering to the band opening, or topic of qso ect... not many do this any more.. but it is still done..and always welcomed on my end.

73's
Steve Raas
N2JDQ
FN13EE

 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by W8MMQ on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I am not sure where this topic has gone. It seems to have changed course numerous times through these posts. I too have operated six meters for years (at least eight years). From my stand-point, it is a rather common practice to say "I already got your grid!" and the operator move on to someone else. I personally do not do this, but I was referring to several of the "big gun" stations of the south, from Florida and Texas. I won't list callsigns here, but apparently no one else has heard of this before. I just assumed it was rather common. It doesn't bother me either way. I know they are trying to work a band opening, or contest, and I don't want to hinder them, so I don't take offense at all when they say it to me.
 
Huh?  
by K0RS on December 31, 2002 Mail this to a friend!
I'm with N2MG, I don't think I understand what this thread is about.

Someone won't QSO?

Someone won't QSL?

The need to lie to someone on the air in order to make them feel important?

If you want a QSO with me....call me.
If you want my card, send me one of yours. An SASE is a classy touch, but not required.

It seems like we have a generation of people (not just hams, BTW) that enjoy looking for new and creative ways to get their feelings hurt.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by K0XXX on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I also have run into the mentality of a station not wanting to exchange QSL's because they have my grid already. Odd, but it has happened on a few occasions. More often though, they might want an SASE before they will QSL. That, I can understand, especially for a rare grid that is beseiged by QSL's from each opening. As a Ham on a fixed income, I know how the cost of QSL'ing can start to add up.

Personally, if I need the grid, I send an SASE. If I don't need the grid but, the op indicates that he needs my grid, I'll just send a QSL and leave it up to them to return one or not. I always send QSL's whenever I receive one, whether it was needed or not. I also send them to new hams and kids with an SASE and tell them, if they don't have any cards, a hand made one is just fine.

I enjoy QSL'ing almost as much as the initial contact. To me it's an intergral part of the hobby.

73 and Happy New Year - K0XXX
 
I Don't NEED your grid, county, state, name, wx et  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Iím still wondering what this is about?
The quickest way to discourage a new ham?
Collecting grids?
Collecting counties?
Collecting States?
Collecting QSLs?

When I first started out as a ham, no one EVER said the didnít need my grid! No one EVER said they didnít need my state! If they had, I would have been startled. Startled because it is of no interest to me if they need my grid, town, county, state or country. It wouldnít have discouraged me at all.

Frankly, I canít imagine anyone calling CQ, but only call me if I need your grid.

What you heard might have been someone on a relatively ďrareĒ grid informing the pile up, he isnít collecting grid information from anyone, cause it slows the pile up down, thus limiting the number of Qs he can GIVE to OTHERS. Those giving the DX under the pile, information they donít want, waist Qs for other people.

When a Dxpedetion goes on the air, I NEVER give them my name or QTH (or county or grid or wx or equipment run down or etc), unless they ASK for that information. I know if I waist their time, fewer people get the Q they are looking for. To me, this is a courtesy I extend to other hams, and especially to the DX station.

When VP6/D goes back on the air this year, I wonít be calling them on any band-mode I donít need them on. If I do, I waist their time, and limit the opportunity of someone else getting a REAL NEW ONE!

HAVE FUN
Bob
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N5EOE on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Where's the cost sharing? You only respond if you get a sase? What's it costing you? I agree with your statement that you should share the cost, at the least.
The way you're doing it, the other station bears the entire cost.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KG4LFZ on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well I have never been told this, on any band hf to 6 meters. I live in EM-76 and that is one of the grids that has a couple 6 meters operators. I know 2 of them that have the equipment to do it but they don't use it. I seem to be the only one from EM-76 to be active during the band openings (unless there is a few mobiles or there are some ops that I don't know that are on 6 meters form EM-76) So I work as many as possible and QSL and I like to work the same state/grid over again it does not bother me. If someone sends me a card and I don't QSL back, one reason may be that the post office lost it or threw it away. The post office sucks here in London, KY so I get some cards and some QST's but not all. So if you don't get one back from me its probably cause I never got it. But I love the hobby and I have never said anything like that to anyone, and no one has said anything to me like that. But 73's and if you hit a bad apple like some of those guys, just move on and go to a different frequency, thats what I would do I a case like that. 73's to all and a Happy 2003!!
de KG4LFZ Ed
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KM5EW on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have heard of this happening on occasion, and it does raise a concern. Now, I've been told by the station I'm in QSO with that he "has worked my grid, county, state, etc., several times, but will be happy to send a card if I needed his grid, county, state, etc." Now, that's a decent statement. The other ham is offering to QSL anyway if I really need the card, which in most cases I do.

When one needs the cards for operating awards sponsored by many different IARU countries, a QSL card is not only the Final Courtesy, but also a necessity. Of course, supplying return postage in some form (SASE, green stamp, or IRC) ALWAYS helps. Bureaus are also a good way to exchange cards. On top of that, many hams (but not all) now print their own cards to save money. (It also brings out creativity in them!) So really, there's no real serious excuse not to QSL, I feel, except for limited budgets, which is truly legitimate.

Being an awards chaser myself, I do understand how this all works. Having a limited budget myself, it can be tough getting those cards out; I do manage to do it however, even if there's a delay in doing so.

I'll always QSL 100% the old-fashioned way (paper), except for eQSL (I tried it, and had a lot of problems with it). The old tried-and-true methods for QSLing are just that...tried-and-true.

Just my two cents worth; Happy New Year and good DX and QSLing!


Warren Rowe / KM5EW
Temple, Texas
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA9SVD on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a little puzzled about the original question also. But for routine stateside contacts on MF-HF, it seems many operators don't send or necessarily expect a QSL. I don't usually receive one, and I don't feel it's an insult. If I'm asked to QSL I will, and if I receive a QSL I will return one. If for some reason I want the other fellow's card, I'll send a SASE with my card. For 6M and above SSB, I'll often QSL a "DX" station, but not the locals unless they ask, and I QSL all satellite contacts.
Contests are different; even DX, with the typical 20 second exchange, isn't routinely QSL'd, IMHO, and the DX stations don't seem to QSL either.
I haven't worked much DX from home, (except during contests; I like to give out points!) so I haven't had to deal with DX QSL's yet.
I'd like an opinion, though, or a comment.
A couple of years ago, I workde a JA in a contest. About two weeks later, I received his card in the mail, along with a return envelope and an IRC. I was so surprised I rushed to the Post Office and sent out my card. NOW, I realize I behaved badly. But would it have been better to return his IRC to him, (paying the postage myself) or should I have used his IRC and bought one to return to him? Or wouldn't it have mattered? (Or should I start ANOTHER Article on QSL'ing?) (Just MY $0.02)
Thanks. Larry WA9SVD
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA9SVD on January 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a little puzzled about the original question also. But for routine stateside contacts on MF-HF, it seems many operators don't send or necessarily expect a QSL. I don't usually receive one, and I don't feel it's an insult. If I'm asked to QSL I will, and if I receive a QSL I will return one. If for some reason I want the other fellow's card, I'll send a SASE with my card. For 6M and above SSB, I'll often QSL a "DX" station, but not the locals unless they ask, and I QSL all satellite contacts.
Contests are different; even DX, with the typical 20 second exchange, isn't routinely QSL'd, IMHO, and the DX stations don't seem to QSL either.
I haven't worked much DX from home, (except during contests; I like to give out points!) so I haven't had to deal with DX QSL's yet.
I'd like an opinion, though, or a comment.
A couple of years ago, I workde a JA in a contest. About two weeks later, I received his card in the mail, along with a return envelope and an IRC. I was so surprised I rushed to the Post Office and sent out my card. NOW, I realize I behaved badly. But would it have been better to return his IRC to him, (paying the postage myself) or should I have used his IRC and bought one to return to him? Or wouldn't it have mattered? (Or should I start ANOTHER Article on QSL'ing?) (Just MY $0.02)
Thanks. Larry WA9SVD
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WB2TPS on January 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
A couple of items.

Larry,
The JA wanted your card and sent you the postage. Don't feel guilty about it.

To the fellow who did not want buro cards. Give the sorters a break and send a note to your buro and authorize them to throw out the cards.

In general, I am a DX chaser, 5BDXCC, CW, fone, WAZ, etc.
While there is a heavy volume of buro cards, for most new entities I send an SAE and "green stamp" (or more)and sometimes certified mail. The total cost can easily equal the price of a new rig. This is my choice, if I want a card, I pay for it.

So unless there is something unique (new Ham, interesting chat...) about a casual QSO, I do not want a card. Unsolicited (non-buro)cards that show up without return postage go into the round file. If it my card is important to you, send an SASE.

I use Eqsl to accomodate those users, but if you are sitting on my SASE and card I will not verify Eqsl until I receive your card in my envelope.

This is just my pragmatic approach.

Jim
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WB8YYY on January 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I suspect the bigger issue is not the qso but the difficulty in getting a valid confirmation. Up until now I was a real qsl fan, but i am changing my thinking relative to awards chasing. It would be nice to obtain vhf/uhf awards via an eqsl or similar system. There are just too many grids to work. Most of us cannot afford the expense of 2-way postage for each grid square worked without taking $$ that we could put to better use for ham equipment and antennas. Perhaps soon we will have a log-book of the world that will include grid squares, and hopefully it will be put to use. Then the only expense of VUCC will be the application fee! Remember ham radio is really putting together a station and using it - the activity to earn operating awards is neat but it should take a back seat and not be a large expense.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KC0BDW on January 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I don't understand it at all..IF someone sends a SASE you could always just print one up on a plain piece of paper..I have 2 qsl's like that...or do like I do..go to the post office and get some blank pre stamped postcards and print your own..Just last month I sent out at least 20 QSL cards and within a few days I had 3 or 4 SASE asking for QSL's but I had already sent them out..I like to get the cards and show my daughter..she likes to know where they're from, names..etc..just a way of maybe getting her involved in dear old dad's hobby..hihi
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA4MJF on January 5, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Ed, you need to contact the postal inspectors,
if you're not gettin' your mail. We've had cases
here in central NC where carriers throw the
mail in fields, hide it in their attics, etc
to keep from havin' to deliver it.

73 de Ronnie

 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA4MJF on January 5, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Always put QSL cards in envelopes, never just send
as a post card. They get stamped, bent, spindled, folded. etc and generally
look awful on the wall. I have some up, and you can tell the hams that don't give a damn by lookin'
at all the stuff USPS stamped on them.

73 de Ronnie
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KA1SLG on January 5, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This is about being refused a qso not a stinking postcard.

This the very issue that caused me to pull the plug on my weak signal activities. I heard one of the larger stations here in FN31 call an Em or EN station and get no reply. Then I heard a station transmit ?1?? this is ??2??? I'm here in fn20 and you are my very first contact ever, over.This big gun thats always talking about getting more stations on 2m ssb gives this newbie the I'm sorry but junk. I picked up my jaw as fast as could and tried to get back to this novice novice but either he couldn't hear me or already had his gear up for sale on ebay. What kind of garbage is this?? It goes against every ham radio code I have evr come across.

KA1SLG
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA9SVD on January 6, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
To KA1SLG:

Don't be discouraged, or give up! Sure there are big guns that are A******s. (And there are little guns that are a******s also.) But these guys are on a self-fed ego trip that they have to keep feeding upon. Ignore them. You may remember them, and just shy away. Just because they have a big signal, doesn't mean they are great operators. Anyone can buy a 1500 W amp. and put out a strong signal, especially if they have the $$$ to put up a big antenna. But that doesn't make them a good operator, or any better than the operator with 10 W and a dipole, or whatever. It just makes them louder. And a LOUD a****** is just more obnoxious that a weak a******.

P.S. A******* is an abbreviation for "jerk."
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by WA9SVD on January 6, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Not to be misunderstood, I find most operators to be really good, and helpful, whether they be little or big guns. I was just trying to say that a "strong signal" high power station doesn't guarantee a good operator. I have had very few operators that I'd complain about, in the last 35 years. I was just saying "Ignore the bad apple," whether he be a crab apple, or a full grown apple.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by K4YJ on January 7, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I can't recall not getting the qso but I do appreciate them saying that they don't qsl so I don't waste my stamps and time filling out envelopes.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by N0UY on January 7, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I don't consider myself to be a big gun or a little gun station as decribed in the earlier post. I do have a better than average antenna system maybe because I am fortunate enough to live in the rural part of the state on approximately eight acres of land. I have worked very hard at setting up the towers and antennas without spending much money. Usually bartering with other hams. My point is I usually have a reasonable signal during band openings. If I hear a station calling CQ from a grid square that I have already worked I usually pass by looking for one I haven't. If I am calling CQ and happen to attract a number of stations wishing to work my grid I gladly work as many as I can. Whether I need their grid or not. I always qsl to every request to do so whether an S.A.S.E. is provided or not. My only requirement is that it has to be a valid exchange of information and a complete qso in my log. 73 ray
 
QSl'ing..  
by K3FT on January 7, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"...mail a postcard for a quarter.." Yes, true. However, the USPS mangles/dirties up/scars postcards with all sorts of nice markings and labels which (at best) mar a nice card and (at worst) obliterate the needed information. So the SMART QSL'er sends it in an envelope which makes it 37 cents plus the cost of the envelope. Not much, I agree, if you are talking 100 cards or less.. but multiply that by several factors if you are a concientious QSL'er.

If you also consider the courtesy of helping to unburden the person you are sending the card to from having the expense (which is NOT trivial for the active Amateur) as well as guaranteeing a good response rate you then take the next step of including an SASE. So you've now increased your cost to 74 cents for the postage and about 3-4 cents for the envelopes you are at 77-78 cents per QSL. So tis 'not so trivial a cost' when you consider that if you are seeking awards like WAC, WAS, Counties, band/mode specific cards, you are talking about a reasonable expense. (We won't talk about cost of the actual AWARD fee itself, that's another story, for another time and posting!)

However, if you believe, as I do, that the 'Final Courtesy of a QSO is the QSL' or you subscribe to the notion that 'A QSL received deserves a QSL returned', you take the time and expend the energy necessary to make it as painless as possible for the QSL reciepient to answer your request for a QSL.

As an example, I recently (2002) found that I had let my QSL'ing duties lapse for a few years (wasn't that active.. but I did participate in a number of contests). I HAD responded to the few QSL's I had received but I had let my own outbound QSL'ing for Awards and the like that I was seeking fall woefully behind. Most of the QSO's were with active Amateurs who need a MD QSL for an HF contact as much as I need a MD QSL for an HF contact. So I sent out QSL's in envelopes with SASE's. So far.. I have mailed out 312 QSL's. Other than those returned by the USPS for undeliverable reasons (address changed, etc) I have had 100 PERCENT return from all who I mailed to - even for QSO's back in 1995!

Even those QSL's I get that have NO SASE get answered, so that's not a problem. Fortunately, it's not too many.

So, if you want a good return and want what you seek... Invest in SASE's and you'll see your return rate go WAY up and the other guy will thank you for making their job a little easier.

A side benefit is that your callsign MAY be one they'll remember and recognize the next time you are on the air.

73, Happy QSL'ing!

Chuck K3FT
 
RE: QSl'ing..  
by WA9SVD on January 9, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sending a QSL card with SASE is going to cost $0.78, true, but that's just the cost of postage and envelopes stateside. That doesn't cover the cost of the QSL card itself; the lowest $ I've seen is about $0.12 each, more if you want a better card thyan single color; bringing the price much closer to $1.00. And DX will cost you close to $2.00 with a dollar bill, almost $2.75 if you send an IRC. And some countries do not allow posession of U.S. money, so the dollar bill won't be appreciated.
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KC2KHK on January 10, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I am also new to the hobby, receiving my ticket this past Oct. I use to SWL back in the 60's, but never made time to take the exam. Things have sure changed over the years in the hobby. I remember listening on 20m & 40m back then, and almost everyone was happy to send a QSL card. I had quite a few from hams around the world. Presently I am on 6 meter's most of the time until I get my General upgrade. It's a nice experience to have a QSO and then exchange a card. The expense can be kept to a min. if you print your own on a computer, come on guy's everybody has a PC today along with some kind of printer and can create a quality card. The old timers in the game probably have all the QSL's that they need or want, but what about us new guy's that are trying for the awards they already have. If we want to expand the hobby, we have to accept the responsibility of QSLing to help keep the interest going for the new guy's. I will QSL everyone 100%, hoping to talk to you during the VHF sweepstakes coming up.

73's from NJ
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by W3DCG on January 10, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I too am new, about a year old to the hobby- although I was once active as a kid with an SX99/T-150A when I was eleven, I never had the chance to work much DX as a Novice. By the time I got my General I was losing interest due to massive hormonal surges, having acquired that most important DMV license.

Sometimes, I send a QSL in appreciation for a really fun qso...sometimes I'd like to have a neat looking call-sign, or it's a Special Event station- and once in a while, an ordinary qso turns into a special event at least to me.

Sometimes, it's just the person, you know?
There are some personalitites known largely due to eHam postings, articles, editorials, where if I bump into them on the air, I might hope to gain their card by sending mine plus SASE.

Like how would it be to accidentally bump into say, the founder of eHam for example, on the air one night... when you're a not yet yearling like me, that would be a big deal, to a newbie commoner like me, hi. (For one thing you'd have to blaze along at least 35 wpm, and for a yearling that can be a challenge, when you're already a bit nervous!)

It helps a lot to hear through grapevines that if you don't get that card, don't worry, you're not THE ONLY one who did not, but earned and wants one.

Sometimes, it just takes persistence, and much patience- I saw online rumors that Mr. Mandari doesn't QSL either-- but eventually the two cards came, although the envelope appears to have been opened a couple times before destinating at my mailbox. I guess many hands must touch the envelope during the journey from Mauritus to Atlanta, and I bet the first attempt was mail pirated.

Life is so very busy for most of us... once the newness buzz wears off, we have to really strive to remember that a little card can bring so much joy-- and although it is a menial, time-consuming task, we really should at least EVENTUALLY get them sent. Your card might be very much appreciated by someone even if you can't imagine why. I mean how RARE is Atlanta for example.

Which reminds me, I suppose, I'd better get that last buro shipment ready for sending next week. I've been meaning to do that since last October!
 
I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by NJ6F on January 13, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Gentlemen....Lets Think Outside the Box....

************ ELECTRONIC QSL.... www.eqsl.cc......

If we can get the ARRL to kiss off and allow EQSL to be a normal electronic QSL medium we would not have this problem.

Like CW.....vs the more enjoyable PSK31.... I think we should eliminate SNAIL MAIL as fast as possible.

I am in the middle age wise and have been exposed to the old and new... why cannot senior Hams agree that
eqsl... is the best way to go...it only takes 5 seconds of anyones time to fill out a stupid QSL confirmation. Who the heck said it had to go thru the mail!!!!!!!!!

Anyone that is a ham and doesnt have an internet connection I would respectfull say is a sad situation.

EQSL allows you to make up your own QSL cards or download your own pictures and then print out all info and it keeps track of your countries etc....
IT IS FREE...what could be better.
Thank you for your time.
 
eQSLs  
by W3DCG on January 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
eQSL seems a convenient way, seems at least as authentic as the "REAL" thing. You know, real:

the snail mail-- Class- kind of card, not the virtual, print your own, kind of deal. Moreover, it does appear, that forging an eQSL is as difficult or as easy, as forging a "real" card. I've taken to saving the envelopes and the stamps in case authenticity comes into question.

From a contest qsl perspective seems we need some form of establishment accepted eConfirmation/QSL mechanism in play, could eQSL handle the volume for "free" the day ARRL et all say YES to eQSLs? I have no idea, just wondering.

There can be no doubt that a printed by the other party and sent via snail mail card is more work, and I sure appreciate receiving those cards, especially the nice ones.

Nice need not mean expensive, either, although postage IS expensive- I have some cards I keep in a special classification, because they are creatively entertaining. Some which were printed at home via desk top publishing/print ware, also not very cheap.

I think I calculated that by the time I figured in cost of color ink, Card weight/quality photo paper- an outside printer such as the QSL Shoppe could do it much better [higher quality], for less, once I worked the original design out digitally at home...

eQSL is a great El Cheapo alternative to conventional QSLing, for sure.

Rock On,
CW Forever,
the Jedi Will Never Die.

 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by KD7PLU on February 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This shifted from grid to qsl, but my .02 on the grid has a lot to do with populating my map with push-pins and nothing to do with qsl cards. For non-contest hams and general operators; If you put the pin on the wall it is a valid pin, by your word. And since it is a personal goal, you would be the only one getting cheated if they were not valid. If another ham came to my shack and asked me to verify the grid squares I'd be a little insulted.

I'd take a beat-up qsl card with stamps and marks over an eqsl card any day. If all people are after is verification use eqsl- because at that point it's not about the card anyway, it's about the contact. I like to think of the people on the bands as People, and not Contacts, so I'll take a real qsl card and verify my own 'contacts' on my grid map.

Loren B. Cobb / KD7PLU
 
RE: I Don't Need Your Grid... Yeah But I Do!  
by AC7DX on April 14, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You want a card...send an SASE. I dont do welfare and if I do 7000 cards a year I sure won't pay your way.
All postcard style cards received are not answered.
No free rides here. I dont need your card and when I do....I send an sase
73 Ron
 
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