A Call for Leadership
from
Robert Campbell, AG4QV
on
January 2, 2003
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As everyone knows, there is an issue that causes polarization among Hams -- contesters versus rag-chewers. Before anyone jumps to reply with who is right or who is wrong, I am NOT trying to start yet another gripe session about rag-chewers versus contesters. I am also NOT trying to have a million postings suggesting specific changes to solve the issue. What I am trying to do is to start a process to bring some sort of solution to the on-going war.
I believe that the problem will not be solved until there is leadership exercised by the ARRL to provide a solution. It appears to me that the ARRL has not provided a means by which both the contesters and the rag-chewers can co-exist without conflict.
And in my opinion, the sort of conflict that I see is not doing the hobby any good. This is not the same thing as two Hams arguing over whether one digital mode is more effective than another. This is the take-no-prisoners kind of dispute. We are too few to fight among ourselves like this.
In spite of all of the name-calling, arguing, and bickering that I see occurring, I do not see the ARRL working to bring peace. Maybe the ARRL is working on this but if so, it is not evident to me. What I am suggesting is that the ARRL take a leadership position and work on finding an answer. I suggest that the ARRL form a committee charged with coming up with as many possible solutions as practical. I wasn't involved in Ham radio when the band plans were adopted but I am guessing that the process used to adopt them involved something similar. Once the solutions for how to resolve the issue are put forward, the ARRL needs to adopt one. Is this a perfect solution? -- No. Are the band plans perfect? -- No. What I am suggesting is a call for leadership from the ARRL.
The fact is that the status quo is terrible. Admonishing contesters to have a little courtesy or rag chewers that no one owns a frequency is just not working. We need leadership and we need it now!
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A Call for Leadership
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by K1VV on January 2, 2003
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We thought this was solved long ago with the creation of the WARC bands .... 30.. 17 and 12 meters ..both Phone and CW ...and soon to be 5 Mhz ... There are NO CONTESTS allowed on these bands at any time.
The last thing Amateur Radio needs in ANOTHER COMMITTEE to study this to death.
Haven't we learned this from what goes on in Washington DC !
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A Call for Leadership
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by W4BQF on January 2, 2003
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I cringe when I see the term 'leadership' and 'ARRL' used in the same sentence! However, the ARRL did act to provide some peace to the contest/no-contest group by suggesting to us hams (the ARRL can suggest, they can not mandate) that the WARC band be free of contest. All contest committes have adheared to this recommendation by the ARRL, it's just us ham's who think their 'personal space' is intruded upon by ham activities that they chose to not participate in, who are complaining.
I suggest the ARRL and us hams concentrate on something more productive, such as cleaning up 75m SSB and K1MAN and other non-admired activities on the 20m SSB band, that make the CB use of 11m look mild compared to our hobby. One thing we DO NOT want to do is limit the activities of this hobby, if we do, the commercial spectrum seekers will certainly have evidence of non-activity in the HF amateur frequencies. Just listen to the bands durnin non-contest periods, especially the CW section to prove it to yourself.
What we better start doing, as individual hams and as groups/clubs, is really start holding the ARRL Directors accountable for their votes.
Tom/W4BQF
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A Call for Leadership
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by K8KAS on January 2, 2003
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What is the BIG deal about contests? Move up to 17 meters or just up in frequency on the band in question or go to 2 meters. I can think of a lot more serious problems in the world than ARRL and contest police.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by KX8N on January 2, 2003
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Right now there are seven articles listed on the e-Ham website main page, and two of them are almost identical. This is getting a bit much. It's true, some contesters don't have any manners and will jump all over an on-going QSO. I've also heard alot of QSO's jumped all over by people calling CQ, or tuning up, or whatever. Contesting has nothing to do with it. Amateur Radio is a reflection of society in general. You have good people, you have rude people, you have good amateurs, you have rude amateurs. You can't police and enforce good manners, no matter how hard you try.
If you don't like contests, go on with your QSO's just like they don't exist. If someone jumps in and wants a contact for credit, kindly tell them that you aren't interested in that, and to please move on.
If you are a contester, be a sport, and listen before you call CQ Contest. If the frequency is clear, use it. If there's someone already there, don't use it.
It's all pretty simple, and this seems to be turning into an argument over individual taste instead of something that isn't really a problem.
It's kind of like when guy number 1 cuts in front of guy number 2 at Wal-Mart, taking his parking space, and after guy number 1 goes in, guy number 2 smashes in his headlights with a hammer. Everyone needs to quit acting like a bunch of babies, and stop crying foul over having your egos stepped on. This whole thing isn't about someone getting shot in the chest, its about occasional conversations being interupted.
Personally, I'd worry more about policing those who tune up at 100+ watts on top of a QSO. That in itself is illegal, since it is an unidentified transmission. How many times have you sat there listening to a QSO, or been involved in one, when suddenly there's a carrier completely saturating everything around it? I have plenty of times.
Next we'll have mobile operators going down the highway shooting at each other: "Hey, your net interfered with my sked! Get off the air, LID!".
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A Call for Leadership
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by NU6O on January 2, 2003
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Fellow Hams...
In the issue of rag chewin vs. contestin... well, aren't they both fun? Can't they co-exist? There are more days available that aren't contest days than not. This provides some balance. There is bandwidth available that isn't used for contests as well. If the net or ragchew sked that you frequent happens on during a scheduled contest, then ask the other fellows and gals of the net or ragchew if maybe it would be good to use the WARC bands during contest times? Contesters... maybe you could listen a bit longer before CQ'ng? I think we can co-exist on the bands just fine. I've been a ham over 20 years... and yes, there have been times that either a rag-chew or a contest has prevented me from doing what I wanted... but is it all about me? No. Let's learn to give up our wants and let the other guy have some fun too. Adapt to the situations and consider the other ham more than yourself. Have some fun! It's a hobby! Leadership from ARRL? Yes, by all means. We all need the baseline, the limit, the rule giver in our lives - hobby and otherwise. ARRL... step in! Make the suggestions!
P.S. If you are wondering... I love to ragchew and I love to contest!
Dennis
NU6O
Pella, IA
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by AD4NK on January 2, 2003
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The ARRL has done enough damage to amateur radio. We really don't need their input on anything else.
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A Call for Leadership
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by K1MKF on January 2, 2003
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Leadership? ARRL? I don't think so. The problem could easily be solved by the organizers of each contest. All they need to do is exlude a portion of each band and make it a safe zone where contest QSOs will not count. Remember, every contest is not a ARRL contest. There are hundreds of others out there. Maybe CQ Magazine will lead the way with their contests! Of course there will be another debate about how big a portion, whether it's in the General or Extra portion, etc.
This is same arguement that goes on with a multi-town linear trail nearby. The walkers like to walk in a group and take a leisurely pace. Some even bring their dogs on a leash. Then there are the joggers, who have to run around the walkers. Of course the bicyclists and in-line skaters also want to use the trail. They have a 10 mph limit, for the safety of the walkers. Well, biking or skating at less than 10 mph is no workout. Walking in a group while bikes and skaters zoom by you is annoying. And who wants to jog if you have to keep weaving through the groups of walkers. Guess what happens? Each group tries to get the trail for only themselves.
I particpate in 3, maybe 4 contests a year plus Field Day. I'm not a contester! But I recognize that contesters do perform the original mission of Amateur Radio, experimentation and improvement, more so than the ragchewer. Maybe they just need to be more polite while doing it.
Mark
K1MKF
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A Call for Leadership
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by KB3FEI on January 2, 2003
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I'm confused. Aren't ragchewers also contesters, and aren't contesters also ragchewers? (That's not to say all ragchewers are contesters and all contesters are ragchewers.) From the QSO's I have,and the ones I hear, it is clear that many hams enjoy both aspects of the hobby. I know that on contest weekends it is difficult to squeeze in a ragchew; yet I suspect that many of the hams who are contesting will be ragchewing Monday through Thursday. I don't think that the problem is one of a dicotomy--ragchewers/contesters. It is the same hams participating in different aspects of the hobby. Nor do I think that a committee is needed to solve the problem or police the airwaves. As has been suggested many times common courtesy will go a long way--checking to hear if a frequency is in use before keying down; using only enough power to facilitate the communication; moving, if asked, to accommodate an established net; staying far enough away from an established QSO so there is no interferance. And using the WARC bands on heavy contest weekends. I am a casual contester and casual ragchewer. I am not troubled by the relative congestion on a few contest weekends. I would like to see the airwaves that busy all of the time.
Dale, kb3fei.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W9WHE on January 2, 2003
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You should NOT look to the ARRL to solve this problem.
The ARRL is a BUSINESS. They are focused on generating $money$ to pay sallaries and benifits for those employed by the ARRL. Like the politicians in washington, the ARRL takes money from BOTH sides of this issue. (Hence, their silence)
THE SOLUTION is to petition the FCC for a rule addressing contests. Pick your remiedy, (ie limit to 2 bands or certain band segments, etc.) and petition the FCC, whom, by the way, is the ONLY body that really can IMPOSE limits.
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A Call for more complaints, with BETTER, bashing
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 2, 2003
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The winner of the first contest bash in 2003 goes K2WH “No contesting on the WARC bands. We don't need you.”
The winner for posting the first contest bash topic in 2003 AG4QV. Extra credit for including a topic for ARRL bashing!
Let us kick the New Year off RIGHT with another code vrs NO-code topic, reduced testing standards, traffic cops, DX pile ups taking up rag chewing space, nets taking up rag chewing space, hams being old, rag chewers not taking about the right topics, CW in MY SSB space, SSB in MY CW space, QRP operators being “step on”, some ham didn’t treat me the way I wanted him to! Oooops, I forgot another favorite topic, someone tuned up on the air!
Who can come up with the most unusual complaint in 2003? Inquiring minds want to know. ; ))
Have FUN
Bob
PS: Any topic or post similar to “I called the contest organizers and asked about this is” FORBIDEN! “I’m a member of the ARRL, so I called the ARRL, and discussed this with them.” FORBIDEN
If you do anything like that, you’ll get kicked out of the complainers net, err club.
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RE: A Call for more complaints, with BETTER, bas
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by KA5N on January 2, 2003
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I have a complaint about all these complainers and bashers. We need to form a commmittee to get rid of them. Don't ask me to join, there should be no complainers allowed on the committee!!!
Allen KA5N
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A Call for Leadership
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by KJ6RA on January 2, 2003
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Bob AE7G, you hit the nail on the head. I think I will make it a habit in 2003 to quit reading these articles as it seems the same ole thing in a different wrapper. See you in the contest and nets!
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by KB5LPA on January 2, 2003
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I suppose the ARRL could do something but only about the contests they sponsor. There are band plans which by "Gentlemen's Agreement" should be followed. Heck,you can even use cw from one end of the(any) band to the other! As I seem to recall,there was a question on the old Novice test over amateur radio being a self policing hobby. More committees? I do not think that would help. Hams doing a better job of operating? Now that would be priceless! As hams,we are our own worst enemies. If the parts of the whole cannot exist together,there is not much left.73
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A Call for Leadership
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by W2MC on January 2, 2003
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I disagree.
I believe that the "problem" exists only with a small, but very vocal, minority of operators.
The last thing we need is another self-appointed committee to author more rules to fix problems that don't exist.
Jon
W2MC
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A Call for Leadership
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by KG6AMW on January 2, 2003
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I don't see the problem. The very few times the contesters were present, I either ignored them, shut down or went some place else. Therefore, no leadership needed because its non issue. The bands are open to all participants.
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A Call for Leadership
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by VE1CZ on January 2, 2003
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Lets not worry about contests,lets just stick together to try and clean up 10, 12, 15 ,20 meters which seems to have been taken over by illegal operators, mostly on 10 and 12 meters.Go take a listen on 10 and 12 meters , contests or not they are always there and they are not worried when you ask them to leave. happy new year to all 73 bob ve1cz
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by K9NYO on January 2, 2003
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Just a thought:
When I'm thinking about talking, I listen first. Once I'm talking, I try to consider how long I've been talking. If I've been talking for awhile, I send it back over. If we've both been talking for awhile, I clear and make room for the next guy.
These are good amateur practices. This is also common courtesy.
Ragchewers, contesters, bulletin services and whiners alike, remember these simple practices:
1. Don't talk over a QSO in progress. Ask if a frequency is already in use.
2. Take turns during a pileup. Everyone wants to make contact...wait until the other guy calls QRZ.
3. Don't use the entire band during contests
4. Remember to give others a chance on the limited number of frequencies we have.
5. Don't use a kilowatt splashing across 10 kHz when 100W or 200W is just fine.
6. Broadcasting on ham bands is illegal. Since the Internet is so pervasive, does *anyone* need to supply bulletin services multiple times during each day? Once or twice (if at all) seems appropriate in non-emergency situations.
You can *share* with other hams, or we'll all end up sharing with not-so-great alternatives.
My dad (also a ham) had a saying when I was a kid...you've probably heard it..."If I punish you both, at least I know I got the one who did it". My sister and I grew to loathe him saying that. But this is how it works, gang. The rules are for us all, and good amateur practices come down to basic decency. And if somebody comes in to fix things, everyone will take the heat.
Do we really want to portray our hobby as one where someone has to come in and tell us to "Play Nice"??
73 DE K9NYO
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Spread the hatred!
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by AD6WL on January 2, 2003
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Eham, where is your head at? You are not allowed to have another CONTEST-BASHING thread within 3 months of a previous CONTEST-BASHING thread. Also you have a no-code tech bashing thread and now two CONTEST-BASHING threads going on at the same time! Spread your hatred out a little.
But contesters should be limited to where they can operate. I recommend the following as contest free zones: 10100kc-10150kc, 18068kc-18168kc and 24890kc-24990kc. I also recommend no contesters allowed in the CW portion of the bands during SSB contest and no contesters allowed in the phone portion of the band during CW contests. And I also think CW ops should not operate in the digital portions of the band.
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A Call for Leadership
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by NS1Z on January 2, 2003
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Since you do not acknowledge any of the alternatives currently in place are you suggesting that Contests be conducted ONLY on the WARC (30, 17 and 12m) bands?
This would seem to agree with your effort not to disturb those Old Farts who cannot, will not or don't know how to make room for others.
The ARRL represents a minority of United States Amateurs, but who is to convince the others (not affiliated) of the merits of your plan?
Surely you are wise enough not to suggest something like this to our governing body!
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International problem
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by VK2GWK on January 2, 2003
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Funny - and a bit disturbing - to see how parochial US hams tend to think.... ARRL, FCC..... Amateur radio is a truly international hobby and the ARRL nor the FCC have very little influence in how hams in the rest of the world excersise their hobby. And there are more hams outside of the USA than inside....!
This is a matter for the IARU: International Amateur Radio Union. How many of you posters know that there are three Regions, each with their own executive council and cenventions every three years? And that the "problem" of contests has been discussed and solutions have been suggested and recommended?
Think outside the square you live in. The world is - very much - bigger than your own state..... :-)
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by N6AJR on January 2, 2003
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First off it is a matter of perspective. just consider a contest contact a very short rag chew and the problem is solved.
I don't contest myself, but I do take advantage of them when they are on. If you are working towards a dxcc or WAS you can usually just about do that in a couple hours during a contest.
If you send the folks on the other end a card and a return address envelope with enough $ in it for postage (I usually stick in a dollar bill) , You will get these cards sent back. You can do this and enjoy working a contest for your own reason. This makes them more enjoyable for me any ways.
I will start at the bottom of the band, write the call down, answer when I can log the time and move up to the next. I then move to a different band and do it again. I can get several hundred stations world wide in a couple hours doing this, and I always get cards sent back when I send them this way.
I worked ascention island , galapogos island, costa rica, pretoria india, and flordia all in a row in a 10 minute period during the last cq 73 contest, on phone only.. try it, you might have some fun. Alot of folks answer when you can mean a point or two for them.. 73 tom N6AJR
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by WB2WIK on January 2, 2003
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Since this has already been beaten to death, should we hold a postmortem?
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A Call for Leadership
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by K1IR on January 2, 2003
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This is not the kind of thing I want my ARRL working on. There are much more important issues to address. I like the fact that the League is chasing big issues like keeping our frequency allocations and getting new ones, developing a whole new generation of new hams through The Big Project, and fighting to keep our ability to put up antennas wherever we live. Diverting anyone to this kind of nit would be an incredible waste of valuable resources - whether done by paid ARRL staff or volunteers!
73 and see you on the air - ragchewing or in a contest!
Jim K1IR
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by KL7IPV on January 2, 2003
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Another one !! This is getting just TOO funny.
73
Frank
KL7IPV
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A Call for Leadership
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by KD7MZX on January 2, 2003
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What has happened to plain old courtsey. Amatuers fighting about who is better only undermines the wonderful aspects of our hobby. It saddens me to see that we fight over such petty things. People talk about the "dumbing down" of ham radio. This is what I feel is the real problem, we all cant get along. Sure someone is going to do something you dont like. It happens. Put the petty stuff aside and lets start worring about things that are more important. Like the threats to many of our bands. And helping newcomers to our hobby. Old, new, contester, or rag chewerer we are all something better HAMS!
73's to all kd7mzx
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A Call for Leadership
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by WO5I on January 2, 2003
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There isn't a problem. There isn't a problem. There isn't a problem!
It bears repeating!
Contesters and ragchewers have co-existed peacefully for years. There are extremists on either side of the issue who'd like to do away with the other side, but there are those extremists on any side of ANY issue. There are extremists who love to conjur up turmoil in otherwise peaceful waters.
Inconsiderate people (and they exist as contesters AND ragchewers) will always tarnish their respective sides. Those of us who reside in the "live and let live" camp will always learn to adapt and overcome. We don't need the ARRL, the FCC, or any other so-called mediator to do that for us.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by K2WH on January 2, 2003
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I agree and echo WO5I's comment! Even before I read beyond your first paragraph, I said "What problem"
There isn't a problem. There isn't a problem. If you don't like contesting, then don't listen! You knew your statement would start a gripe session even though you deny wanting to start one. That was your reason for the posting, wasn't it. Headlines.
I am not and never have been a contester. I don't care for them and I think they are exercises in futility. But, to each his own. As Ann Landers use to say, "MYOB".
K2WH
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W5HTW on January 2, 2003
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Hopefully the new season will start soon and these re-runs will go away.
Ed
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A Call for Leadership
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by N3LJS on January 2, 2003
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If I was fighting with my brothers or sisters (other hams) over some toys (frequencies) that we both wanted. My parents (FCC) would take them from us and give them to somebody (anti-hams that could use them) else. If we can't play nice together, we might loose our toy's! So we had to learn how to share and quest what. My parents (FCC) always bought us more toys....................
73
N3LJS
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A Call for Leadership
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by KC0IOX on January 2, 2003
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Hmmmmm....Let's see.....Iraq...North Korea...The Economy...The Typhoon in the Pacific...The Israeli Palastinian problems...Threats of terrorism across the globe...My job...My kids...My XYL...The In-Laws...The bills...Other committments to family and community...The Hawkeyes(tell me the Orange Bowl was a bad dream...please!)...
Hell, I've got enough to worry about. The funny thing is, I use my radio to cope with stress, not create it, so I'm going to pass on this one.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled bickering.........
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A Call for Leadership
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by KC0IOX on January 3, 2003
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Before we return you to the regularly scheduled bickering, and before I totally pass on this one, I just want to say one thing.
I've noticed that we as operators are a curious bunch. In one breath, we bemoan our passing, complain that ham radio is dying, and try to recruit new people into the hobby. We complain about under-utilized bands, dead repeaters, the internet stealing our thunder, losing spectrum due to lack of use, etc., etc. etc. In the next breath we bitch about too many people on the bands, relaxed entrance requirements, contests, nets, ragchewers, bad behavior in pilups, etc.
We can't have it both ways. We need to realize that there are contests, nets, ragchewers and all have merit. No matter how much we bitch, we won't change the fact that contests are popular, and that bands will be crowded. How would the ARRL change that? Why should they? I'd rather have them put their time and resources into a 60 meter band, a worldwide allocation for 40 meters, getting rid of the illegal activity on our bands, and pressing our lawmakers to help preserve the spectrum we now have.
If there is a contest on a weekend that I don't want to participate in, I do something else, or find another band. Funny, for all the bitching we do about how the WARC bands get little use, it seems that very few people operate there.
I'm not pro contest or anti contest; pro CW or anti CW, pro net or anti net. I'm pro ham radio. It's all good to me and there is enough in this wonderful hobby that I've never had a reason to complain. This is a wonderful hobby we've chosen, and I've met countless wonderful folks because of it, and found a great way to relieve the pressures of the day. No, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. We are a special breed, and we should all conduct ourselves with good will and civility at all times and take the high road.
Compared to the real problems of the day, I find the question and line of discussion pretty trivial and a non-factor.
And, as Forrest Gump once said, "That's all I have to say about that."
We NOW return you to the regularly scheduled bickering.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W9WHE on January 3, 2003
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Ever notice how certain groups are allways asking "where's your competitive spirit" then running for cover when things get a little competitive?
Hummm...
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 3, 2003
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I nominate N2MR as having the best solution to the "contest problem":
"I think we should resurrect the "Russian Woodpecker" on the WARC bands during contest weekends! Then all you whiners can find out what REAL QRM is!
Mark N2MR"
He is where the League can show some REAL leadership, form a committe to bring the Woodpecker to the WARC bands during contests, or more simply, just to bring back the Russian Woodpecker.
Have FUN
Bob
PS: I was calling a DX staion yesterday, and people "steped on me" by calling at the same time. RUDE RUDE RUDE. I had to call many times trying to get through the QRM they created on me. Bad hams! ; ))
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W0FM on January 3, 2003
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If all this leaves you looking for a really simple solution, try doing what I do:
If I feel like rag chewing and there's a contest in progress, I use the time to talk to my wife, my son or my elderly father.
If I feel like really going head-to-head competitively, and there is NO contest in progress, I use the time to talk to my wife, my son or my elderly father!
Smile! We have a great hobby.
Terry, WØFM
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by N6AYJ on January 3, 2003
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I agree that "ARRL Leadership" is an oxymoron. The League's idea of leadership is to choose Riley Hollingsworth as their lap dog and then sic him on their own members.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by AD6WL on January 3, 2003
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>RE: A Call for Leadership Reply
>by N6AYJ on January 3, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
>I agree that "ARRL Leadership" is an oxymoron. The >League's idea of leadership is to choose Riley >Hollingsworth as their lap dog and then sic him on >their own members.
Now why are you mad at Riley? He is doing his best to help ham radio. Remember when 146.520 was dead and then hams were just starting to us it? Well he ran everyone off of it and now it is nice and quiet agn!
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A Call for Leadership
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by K8AG on January 3, 2003
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Oh boy, a committee. Sounds like work to me. The problem is not with any op who remains curteous and LEGAL in their station operation. Perhaps we need a discussion on filing official FCC complaints. I would read that article. Punish the offenders, not the contesters or ragchewers.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by K3UD on January 3, 2003
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Yet another us vs. them thread.
Can contesting and ragchewing co-exist? Take a listen to 75 meters during any major contest. There is almost zero contest activity above 3900 and very little above 3850. Most phone contesting is crammed into about 50 kHz of the band. This seems to be because the 75-meter regulars control their turf very well, and, as has been suggested in this thread, ignore contest activity and go on with life, as they know it.
Of course there are always the WARC bands although I have seen both 12 and 17 meters have their share of chaos when a DXpedition cranks up and decides to use a broad range of listening frequencies. However, DXCC is not a contest....... is it? Come to think about it, there is an honor roll, and stations with country totals are printed in QST on a sporadic basis..... maybe DXCC is the ultimate contest? can't be, the WARC bands are contest free. In any event, both 12 and 17 meters will become less useful as sunspots decline to the minimum. This leaves 30 meters and if you are primarily a phone operator, it might not be your first choice.
Maybe the ARRL IS taking the lead on this. It can be argued that their decision to pull contest results out of QST and only publish them on the web site might be a clandestine effort to reduce the emphasis on contests. After all, it takes a certain amount of money for the ARRL to sponsor, tabulate, and publish the results and in today’s economy, every cent counts.
Personally, I like the way it is today, enjoying both casual contesting
and ragchewing.
Happy New Year To All
George
K3UD
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W5HTW on January 3, 2003
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by AE7G on January 3, 2003
PS: I was calling a DX staion yesterday, and people "steped on me" by calling at the same time. RUDE RUDE RUDE. I had to call many times trying to get through the QRM they created on me. Bad hams! ; ))
end quote
You could try Echolink. No QRM, no QRN, and tons of DX as close as your ISP .... A real Pipeline! Arm chair copy. Full quieting, no QSB, no DSP needed, no BFO, no silly frequency dial to mess with, like Ronco - "set it and forget it." ... Every one is 59. While you're there, Try CW ...!
73
Ed
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by WA1WLA on January 3, 2003
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Here is my suggestion.
If the contest committee gets three complains about ww99xx interfering with a QSO during a contest, ww99xx looses ALL his points and his call will not appear in the magazines.
Fair ?
Constantine WA1WLA
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A Call for Leadership
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by WA4PTZ on January 4, 2003
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I'd have to say that on occasion the contesters do
get in the way, but this is part of our hobby. When
this happens I have alternatives.
There are many other bands available to us, so there
is always someplace to chat. Those who continue to
whine and complain about it are the "el cheapos" who
won't buy a radio that has other bands. This old BS
about "I can't afford it" is a crock. You're just too
cheap, or too lazy. The truth is very plain....
the ARRL has better things to do than baby-sit a
bunch of cry-babies.
73 - Tim
WA4PTZ
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by N3BF on January 4, 2003
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Another non-issue that we already know how to address. Rag-chewers and contesters should be considerate toward each other. I think the bands, modes, and dates of contests are varied enough that they create only a minor disruption of any particular daily or weekly net or QSO-schedule. Stop griping.
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A Call for Leadership
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by W5VPU on January 4, 2003
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The original appeal for ARRL to provide some "leadership" appears to me to be the appeal of a younger brother being whipped by an older brother then running crying "Momma, he hit me."
Ask knowledgable Mommas how they work that out? Usually by punishing them BOTH. Is that what you really want? Do you want MORE regulation?
I don't think so.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 4, 2003
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I think you are onto something here ED, W5HTW . ; ))
Plus all of those who don’t want contests on ANY HF band, can simply switch to FM. ; ))
That would probably work for those who are afraid of someone starting a contest on the WARC bands, switch to FM. ; ))
Come to think of it, no contests on CB.
Great FUN
Bob
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A Call for Leadership
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by KA7RRA on January 4, 2003
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OK here's the solution we ban ragchewing and contesting
and only use our radios for emergency purposes only
Dave KA7RRA
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by RADIOWEENIE on January 4, 2003
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K1VV and K8KAS have the right perspective on this one. Indeed the FCC has ALREADY handled the problem. I myself get annoyed with contesters, particularly several LIDS in TX who are running 3KW+. And these LIDS know exactly who they are. You cannot get a word in edgewise because they are burning your cute little 100W station literally out of earshot. So what do i do when my poor little station gets knocked off the air? Two things: (a) try to find a quiet lull and give my callsign, (b) Move to another frequency, (c) move to another band such as 160m, (soon 60m), 30m, 17m, 12m, or 6m. Even 2m or 440 might work. As you know contests are NOT ALLOWED on 160, 60, 30, 17, or 12m. That is another 5 bands!! SO WHAT ON EARTH IS THE PROBLEM HERE?? Do we want to be on a ridculous "study committee" which is utterly ineffective? Do we want to "report" the contesters to the FCC which is completely futile? What a waste!! Just go to the WARC bands and chill out!!
--Radioweenie
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RE: Not "Leadership" but "Individua
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by RADIOWEENIE on January 4, 2003
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As a sequel to the above i would like to mention that the LAST THING WE NEED is for a cadre of self-appointed radio cops to lay down their haughty ego massaging intepretation of the law to to us. we have aenough problems with these psycho cases already. And we certainly do not need any more ofthat ilk!! So when the going gets "contested", go to the WARC bands. You already have four and it will soon be five!! 73 de
--Radioweenie
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RE: Not "Leadership" but "Individua
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by RADIOWEENIE on January 4, 2003
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As a sequel to the above i would like to mention that the LAST THING WE NEED is for a cadre of self-appointed radio cops to lay down their haughty ego massaging intepretation of the law to to us. We have enough problems with these nut cases already. And we certainly do not need any more of that ilk!! So when the going gets "contested", go to the WARC bands. You already have four and you will soon have five!! What is wrong with that? 73 de
--Radioweenie
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A Call for Leadership
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by KD7EFQ on January 4, 2003
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I say decide on a band plan AND FOLLOW IT!! Set aside
portions of each band for contests and leave some space
for the ragchewers. Just like a football field, out
of bounds limits. That will even make the contests more challenging if they have to stay within set
boundaries. Pile ups are something contesters have to
deal with anyway. And take away points for out of
bounds operations. that way everyone has a place. :)
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A Call for Leadership
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by K6QXR on January 4, 2003
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LEADERSHIP
It seems to me that this bru-ha-ha about contests and rag chewers has gone far enough. I bellieve that the leadership starts when you sit down and switch on your rig. You, my fellow ham's should take the leadership and do what is right. If you are rag chewing and a contester gives you a shout, you should be pleased to make the contact it only takes a few seconds and back to your rag chewing. Perhaps I am missing something, I got my license back in the mid 50's and it seemed that system worked fine.
73's
Doc
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A Call for Leadership
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by K7PIG on January 5, 2003
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Why not ask the ARRL about the "Suggested Frequencies" that were posted in QST many decades ago pertaining to "Contests"? Leadership from ARRL, you'll not receive an answer.
I don't accept any contester just jacking his/her jaws on the frequency I'm using; your callsign (mine), good write Mr. Hollingsworth, wear your huggies sport.
A VE1 said it all, complain about the invasion on 10m/12m, "FOUL-MOUTH, OBNOXIOUS TRUCKER'S, UNLICENSED."
Ride Doctor Wally, ride.
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RE: A Call for more complaints, with BETTER, bas
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by KG4WKL on January 5, 2003
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I have to say AMEN! I have not heard such a serman since last Sunday.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W1RFI on January 5, 2003
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> What we better start doing, as individual hams and
> as groups/clubs, is really start holding the ARRL
> Directors accountable for their votes.
And I would imagine that most, if not all, of the ARRL Board of Directors would agree with you. :-) I do.
The first way to hold your Director accountable is to vote in ARRL elections. To do that effectively, you need to also use the BEST method to hold your ARRL leadership accountable, and that is to communicate regularly with your Director and other ARRL officers. You can email them, visit them at conventions or pick up the phone and give them a jingle. That will tell you a lot about their views and will let you tell them about yours. When all is said and done, you will know enough to vote them in -- or out -- of office.
The terms of ARRL Directors are now 3 years. In many cases, though, when a Director's term of office is up, he or she has not had any opponents and were declared elected. Heck, is you really don't like the way that ARRL is being run, run for Director yourself. Incumbents have come and gone in my 16 years at ARRL HQ. In that time, most ARRL Divisions have different Directors than when I started.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab
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A Call for Leadership - NO - One hams wish that th
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by K4OJ on January 5, 2003
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There are those who like contests and those who do not. Judging by the increasing popularity of contesting during the decline of the licensing body, coupled with the strong following of contesting by hams licensed over 25 years I would hope that those who are quick to damn contests have indeed given them a try...right?
Contesting ensures a body of competent operators equipped with well engineered stations exists... or do you think we all should be loading our downspouts so we can get 539 RST reports?
Contesting already is limitted - SEVERELY - unlike rag chewing contesting takes place during specific time frames and with few exceptions only on one mode at a time! If you feel that you need somewhere to operate away from a contest - usually simply switching modes will do the trick - if not, there are the WARC bands which do not allow contest exchanges!
As many have mentioned this is all old material, because one ham wants the ARRL to champion his viewpoint does not mean that the ARRL should. PRIMARILY because this would be a waste of the League's efforts - the ARRL should be arguing for us to be able to maintain our frequencies - we cannot buy frequencies like commercial interests do here in the States. BUT the ARRL can make arguments for us to have frequencies by pointing to say a contesters log where he can routinely make world wide contacts over a 48 hour period with every part of the globe. Of course they could apologize for inability to make contacts because nobody has any incentive to have much more than that downspout yagi! I wonder which would get a better reception?
Contest operators like myself seldom get on the air at any other time - when we do get on it is in weekend flurries of activity - the other times we are doing things like designing and constructing antennas that challenge the ether, or helping others to do the same!
I am sure the League knows what stance to take - after all they are a membership organization and you are a member, right. You do vote in the elections, right? A local who is an elected official in the ARRL field organization just won his election by two votes - he is aklso a member of the local contest club.... Think of the ARRL as a microcosm of our political system - your vote can make a big difference!
73,
Jim, K4OJ
ARRL Life Member - licensed in 1970
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A Call for Leadership
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by KA2LIM on January 6, 2003
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The last thing that is needed is the arrl involved. If there isn't any money involved for them, they show no intrest.
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by WA1WLA on January 6, 2003
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I am back! instead of reporting contasters QRMers
It would be easier to teach them rule #1 of the hobby, "Listen before transmitting"
WA1WLA
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by G3RZP on January 7, 2003
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The problem really boils down to activity. It's been claimed that there can be as many as 35,000 callsigns active in a major contest such as CQWW. Now, just suppose all those guys came on to ragchew. The QRM would be at least as bad as during a contest. So it's not the contest per se that causes the problem, it's the activity level.
Having restricted sections of the band is a nice idea, but not too practical for a big contest. Who is going to police it? How do you make sure that someone doesn't get disqualified by reason of someone else pirating their call in a banned segment, in order to get rid of competition?
I also note that the majority of serious contesters have an interest in more than just operating ability, but also in the technical side of radio in order to improve their stations. Regrettably, the same cannot be said of many ragchewers.
Incidentally, I do more ragchewing than contesting....
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W1RFI on January 7, 2003
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> The last thing that is needed is the arrl involved.
> If there isn't any money involved for them, they
> show no intrest.
There is money involved with much of what ARRL does. In my role at its HQ, I am concerned with the spending of that money. Are you not interested in the results of that spending? Do you feel that ARRL's Technical Information Service web pages, http://www.arrl.org/tis are a worthwhile use of membership dues? Those pages contain over 600 articles available for download. For the list, see:
http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/TISarticles.html.
Another major area of ARRL's spending money is on advocacy. Do you feel that ARRL's attending industry meetings to try to deal with RFI issues before they become problems is another good use of membership money? How about its program to bring amateur radio into the classrooms, including the purchase of station equipment for schools.
Do you think that ARRL should not be interested in these things because someone else at ARRL has to be interested in how they are going to be funded?
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: A Call for Leadership - NO - One hams wish tha
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by W9WHE on January 7, 2003
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K4OJ says:
"Contesting ensures a body of competent operators equipped with well engineered stations exists... or do you think we all should be loading our downspouts so we can get 539 RST reportss?"
Well Jim, I guess Non-contesters are just a bunch of incompetent operators equiped with poorly engineered stations. Take your head out of your butt! Want to know why people hate contesters so much, its attitudes like Yours.
Oh, and as for the 599 reports contesters give, you are not fooling ANYBODY with that nonsence!
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A Call for Leadership
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by N9RLA on January 7, 2003
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The solution is already in place. There is plenty of room for everyone to co-exist. The only complaints are from the ones that are unwilling to change modes and/or frequencies at that givin moment.
Our frequencies are shared. If a contestor shows poor amateur practise and takes your frequency, then take up the issue with that individual, not all contestors.
If a rag-chewer takes over your frequency because he has been using it since 1938, then it is a problem with the individual, not all rag-chewers.
I believe this "crisis" has been created by a very vocal minority. Most of us participate in both activities and manage to get along quite well.
My opinion based on my experience. Your opinion will, of course, likely differ:-)
Dan Evans N9RLA
{EM78}
N9RLA /R no budget Rover
Check out the Rover Resource Page at:
http://www.qsl.net/n9rla
QRP-l #1269
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No Call For Leadership, we just need to grow up
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by N0TONE on January 8, 2003
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With all due respect to the original poster, this is being blown way out of proportion.
The contester versus non-contester "issue" has always been a part of ham radio, and I've been around the hobby for almost 50 years.
The actual on-air conflicts do not happen any more often today than about 40 years ago, and in fact, they happen LESS often than 20 years ago. As I look at today's activity versus, say, 1980, there are far fewer ragchewers, and those who are there, have weaker signals. I think more hams are spending their time on FM, and the increase in QRP operations and restrictive neighborhoods means antennas aren't, on average, as good as they used to be. So the signals, on average, are weaker. The contesters have about the same signals as always, but fewer of them splatter, because newer rigs have better ALC.
But what has changed? It's the attitudes. Not meaning any disrespect to younger (under 60 years old) hams, tolerance has shrunk to new lows. Tolerance does not mean a contester stops contesting to allow a ragchew, or vice versa. Tolerance means that you accept things as they are! Interference has ALWAYS been a part of HF. HF will never be two meter FM, and that's part of the charm.
So my suggestion is this: If you really want to ragchew without interference from contests, then use the WARC bands. Ragchewers asked the ARRL to reserve those bands for "no contests" and the ARRL did. So use them, already! If you insist on using non-WARC bands, then accept the interference without complaint. That's how it was 30 years ago.
This is human behavior on a fairly large scale, and that is not something that can be controlled without causing more problems.
So, the solution is simple: tolerate without so much rhetoric and name-calling. This IS the way it is, and it won't change.
AM
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A Call for Leadership
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by KG4PTZ on January 8, 2003
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Well, it looks as if someone else has successfully pissed off all the licensed radio amateurs in this country and beyond with this topic. Sure, contests can take away bandwidth at times, and so can ragchews. I don't know how many of you have ever heard the age-old saying, "A house divided against itself cannot stand," but it certainly holds true today. That house, ham radio, is beginning to divide, and the ARRL isn't going to be able to duct tape it back together. We need to quit griping, and enjoy our spectrum while we have it, and maybe we'll keep it a little while longer.
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A Call for Leadership
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by K0HB on January 9, 2003
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Some days I ragchew.
Some days I contest.
Some days I work DX.
Some days I go walleye fishing.
73, de Hans, K0HB
Grand Exhalted Liberator of Electric Smoke
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A Call for Leadership
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by WK4RC on January 9, 2003
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you know....... the most the bands are used is during a contest weekend, one of the biggies. the rest of the time the bands are quire open and available, unless there is a dx pileup splatter for some reason or another.
if the bands were just for ragchewing, my favorite mode of operating, we probably would have lost band allocation years ago because they were underused.
as others have said, if contests bother you, move to one or the warc bands or wait till the contest is over. don't even bother to rock the boat on this topic, it is like the code / no code issue, or reducing the code speed for licensing. this topic is a troll in sheeps clothing.
bob / wk4rc
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A Call for Leadership
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by WK4RC on January 9, 2003
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you know....... the most the bands are used is during a contest weekend, one of the biggies. the rest of the time the bands are quire open and available, unless there is a dx pileup splatter for some reason or another.
if the bands were just for ragchewing, my favorite mode of operating, we probably would have lost band allocation years ago because they were underused.
as others have said, if contests bother you, move to one or the warc bands or wait till the contest is over. don't even bother to rock the boat on this topic, it is like the code / no code issue, or reducing the code speed for licensing. this topic is a troll in sheeps clothing.
bob / wk4rc
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A Call for Leadership
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by K7LCS on January 9, 2003
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30, 17 AND 12 ARE GREAT ALTERNATIVES FOR OPERATORS WHEN THERE IS A CONTEST GOING ON. PROBLEM IS, SOME OPERATORS ARE STUCK ON ONE FREQUENCY AND THINK THEY OWN IT OR ARE TOO MEAN TO MOVE. CW PORTIONS OF THE BANDS ARE NOT HURTING FOR OPERATORS, SO LETS STAY WAY FROM THAT ARGUMENT. THE BIG PROBLEM IS "HARD HEADS". THE ARRL CAN'T RESOLVE THIS "EVER", IT WILL TAKE OPERATORS TO COOPERATE ON THE BANDS. bEEN AROUND THIS SINCE 1963, AND I THINK ONE PROBLEM IS WE ARE GETTING A CLASS OF OPERATOR, THAT REFLECTS OUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE; LAZY, WON'T WORK, NO PRIDE, NO SELF ESTEEM, WANT IT ALL FOR NOTHING. AND THEN THE CB ANGLE. WHAT A MESS THOSE OPERATORS HAVE BROUGHT UPON US!!! JUST MY .02 WORTH. ALL TRUE!!!
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A Call for Leadership
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by N8IE on January 11, 2003
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While we are at it, let's start up another useless thread about incentive licensing, or better yet something about no-code Hams.
This horse is so beaten, it does not even look like Trigger anymore.
72, 73
Dan, N8IE
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by W9WHE on January 13, 2003
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For the contesters that constantly bemoan threads like this one, may I respectfully suggest that you take your own advice....change bands, er.., I mean threads! After all, isn't that exactly what you tell the rest of us, "if you don't like contests, change bands"?
Well, why not take your own advice?
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RE: A Call for Leadership
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by KR5C on January 15, 2003
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Best common sense answer of all Mark. Thanks for your input.
73, George KR5C
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A Call for Leadership
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by MSN90 on January 18, 2003
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I don't know if there is any solution. These two "problems" (depending on your view) are inherent in the current regulations. I see these two uses of the airwaves as an utter waste.
Many average people would love to utilize the airwaves for useful purposes and to spread useful news, as well as information about their culture.
It is quite sad that the FCC or whomever has allowed this current squandering of the airwaves. Under the current regulations, ham and amateur radio is a wasteland to the ears.
Consider yourselves lucky (although I don't) everyday that you can practice these activities because someday there will be some radical changes.
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