'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
Raymond M. Perkins, Jr. (W5VPU)
on
January 12, 2003
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I have been struck by numerous ads trying to sell "mint" equipment lately. Apparently no one ever has bought an expensive piece of ham gear with the intention of using it. The latest I saw on a sales net. An Omni VI+ that was bought new in 1996 and has been used only two weeks since then. "Mint."
One sees or hears the claims in many venues. On eBay auction said, "My father used this only for listening before he died and it has less then five hours of transmitting on it. Mint condition." An ad here on eHam had some products for sale by a person who stated: "I am totally reworking my shack and this is my personal . . . Mint condition." Turns out that he has had scads of ads over the years and apparently is a "trader" who makes big trips to the bank monthly from his "personal equipment" which he sells. I overheard two traders talking after a 40 meter trader's net, "Last week I sold over $13,000.00 of amplifiers."
Yet I subscribe to several reflectors. And operators with various equipment of all manufactures, new and old, are asking one another how to solve a problem with their equipment. Much purchased from other hams.
All this begins to run together in my mind. If nothing has really been used, if everything is mint, if all that is being sold is from silent keys, and if no new hams are coming onto the scene, then why is there such traffic in the selling and buying of used equipment? Has ham radio become primarily a trader's business rather than a hobby? If every piece of used equipment being sold is "mint," and has been used less than five minutes a day for five years, and it is all from "estates," something is amiss.
I have some ideas about this but hesitate to voice them in polite company. Does anyone else have some ideas about this?
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KG6AMW on January 12, 2003
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Equipment traders and indiviuals have the right to sell equipment. Most of the time people end up with what they want and its up to each person to look at the equipment, try it out and then buy it. If you begin to impose rules and designations to protect the witless it will limit sales and everybody gets inconvenienced. Life is based upon open trade and people taking chances. Its what makes the existing system good. Instead of limiting sales the buyer should be aware.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W8OB on January 12, 2003
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OH Yeah expect to get on the receiving end of the firing range for this post, For sure your gonna get slammed by everyone of these guys that are reading this.But if any of them know where I can find a minty collins s line at a estate sale please let me know.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KG4VGH on January 12, 2003
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Well Put...
Myself, I have made frequent trips to Ebay....most recently buying a FT-920...however, my approach might be a bit different....I throw my hat in with a minamum bid, then email the seller, asking numerous questions, on condition etc and mainly, reason for selling....Once satisfied with response, may increase my bid, or exercise the "Buy Now"...
So far (knock on wood), have had no problems...and everything purchased has been as advertised
Pete
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by K6SBA on January 12, 2003
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Ham radio is most likely populated by the same percentage of deceptive sellers as most other hobbies/businesses. eBay certainly has its share of unethical types, but it does have the feedback system. I feel I can trust a purchase on eBay if the seller has really good feedback. Unfortunately, there is no such system (except word of mouth) for the majority of online or on-air swapnets.
73 de K6SBA
David in Santa Barbara, CA
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KD4FUN on January 12, 2003
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Mint..... I belive refers to the plant, specifically the leaves. When the rig is in mint condition, look for a peice of candy on it somewhere!!
73 De Brian KD4FUN
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KD5SCG on January 12, 2003
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I think that a lot of stuff is misrepresented when it is said to be "mint". Mint means the best right? so if it's mint then it comes with all original accsories in the original box, with that plastic stuff on the front. So basically to me, mint means it is just how it was when it came home from the store. anything less than that is not mint imho. I would describe it as excellent if it has been used, but still no scrapes or damage and with all original accesories.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N4GI on January 12, 2003
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Most of those "Mint-Condition" e-bay sellers are no more than SK estate sale vultures. They are dealers making big bux by practically stealing the stuff then putting it up for "auction". Buying stuff from non-callsign-displaying folks either here or e-bay equates to putting yourself in the ring for a shilacing.
Blake N4GI
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 12, 2003
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My favorite is "Worked last time I used it" (Since then, I needed parts for a project; so, I removed the power transformer, IF circuits, and output tubes. But, the last time I used it, it worked fine).
OR, with tube rigs and tubed amplifiers: Full output on 80 meters. (I stopped using it on 10 meters because the output dropped to 25% of normal; but it is full output on 80!)
As someone else stated, if I'm looking for that piece of gear, I bid low, and then ask a lot of specific questions. If they don't get answered, no more bids.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WB6MYL on January 12, 2003
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One of the reasons for E-bays success is the "feedback" category and it is unfortunate that there is no such research source on E-ham or QTH.com as many/most of us do not use E-bay as a venue to sell/buy gear; yes the word gets out among hams on who is good and who is not, but why take a chance; I will not buy a piece of gear unless I can see and demo the rig myself; lastly, the ads that say: "worked two years ago when I tried it" or "receives fine but have not tested on transmit" or even "untested" speaks volumes: "I don't have the integrity to say it doesn't work and/or don't or won't take the time/trouble of repairing so maybe some snook will buy it but I want a price as if it was in excellent condition" Caveat emptor!
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N2NFG on January 12, 2003
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I have bought and sold numerous items here on eham over the past two years. Everything I have bought has been delivered exactly as advertised, with the exception of one high end radio that had a bad amplifier relay. I beleived the seller when he said he was unaware of the problem (he never had an amp), it was an easy fix anyway. NIB items arrived just that way. I just got a HUSTLER 4BTV in the orriginal box, never opened for $80.00 including shipping. What a deal! The best advise for a buyer is to KNOW what you are buying and ask a lot of questions. A legitimate seller won't mind providing answers. If you're buying a radio, read the reviews here or at other web sites. Know what to expect. I've seen some reall shady dealers try to pull off incredibly stupid stuff. Recently saw an ICOM 751A listed. Along with it the guy also posted the 500hz. CW filter for the radio, at an additional price. Yep, the one that came standard from the factory in the rig. If a potential buyer knew that (through a little research), he could either avoid that idiot, or negotiate to get the rig in original condition. Ask questions about mods, known problems, scratches dents and dings, what comes with it (mike, Manual, mounting bracket, etc.). One final word. DON'T get burned on shipping! It's no secret that a lot of mail order firms make a BIG slice of their profit from those "shipping and handling" charges. I't not too hard to find out just how much it will cost to get an item to you. 73, Bob
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KU4QD on January 12, 2003
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There are a lot of accusations and generalizations in the comments. Not everyone on eBay is a vulture. I have bought and sold a lot of equipment on eBay, eHam, and elsewhere for a number of reasons. I was unemployed, had medical expenses, and needed money, so I sold gear. I've been trying, since then, to put together my ideal ham shack on a budget. More buying, more selling.
If I use the word "mint" it means I bought it new and never used it. I think I've been able to use that word all of once. Otherwise I say excellent condition, or good condition with minor scratches, etc... I always try to post a good picture where that service is available and be honest about the description. If something doesn't work I say so.
You know what: *most* hams do exactly what I do. I have a Kenwood TR-9000 2m all mode I bought from a local ham. It was working perfectly (as promised) but rough cosmetically. I found a broken TR-9000 on eBay which was advertised as "not working". It looked really nice on the picture, and it was. I bought it, swapped the case, front panel, and knobs, finally added the wire stand to my radio, etc... I then put a ratty, non-working TR-9000 on eBay and described it exactly that way. I got $61 for it, probably for someone who wanted it as a project or needed it for parts. Everybody went away happy, and everybody was honest. Positive feedback all around.
Why eBay? Why not a reflector or eHam? I always try those first, but when they fail eBay almost always succeeds.
I also buy on eBay because an incredible amount of equipment goes through there, and I've found very rare pieces I was looking for. I don't think I could have found all the NCG and Mizuho gear I have any other way. I have ordered factory direct from Mizuho for new gear, but if I can find nice, used equipment and save a significant amount of money, so much the better.
Yes, there are thieves selling amateur radio gear. I've been burned a couple of times and it's taught me what to do and not do the hard way. Nowadays I seem to do well and get what I want at the price I want if I'm patient.
Despite the rant, most hams still are honest and still describe the gear that way. Thanks to that fact my shack is almost exactly the way I want it.
73 de Caity, KU4QD
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Caveat Emptor
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by ADAM12 on January 12, 2003
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If the item is relatively new on the market, then yes, it is perfectly feasible that someone bought it to try it out, and having had their curiosity satisfied, decided to get rid of it for a little loss. I've done this myself and have sold virtually brand-new gear which I've advertised as mint. I've also advertised stuff that I've had for a year or so and advertised it as mint (because it is completely unmarked and comes with all the original packaging and accessories); I don't see this as deceptive.
On the other hand, just a few weeks ago I bought a transceiver on one of the web swap-meets from a ham. It was described as "excellent" and "no surprises here", etc. along with a nice little story of it's history with him. Well, what I got was badly in need of cleaning, had an obvious problem and the mic was well worn. I also noticed that under the labels on the mailing box were other (postmarked and dated) labels which showed that the ham who sold it to me had recently bought it from another ham hundreds of miles away. i.e. his advertisement was a pack of lies.
So, should I just sell it on to some other "sucker" sight-unseen as the "brother ham" had sold it on to me?
Well, some of you may call me stupid but I cleaned it up and sent it to the manufacturer for repair and re-alignment; even bought a brand new mic for it and THEN sold it on. Actually, I only lost about $25 on the deal (*and* advertised it honestly). I wonder how many pieces of equipment get passed from one "sucker" to the next until they find a home.
Another time an (obvious estate sale trader) guy sold me an old Hammarlund (on eBay) which was described as "excellent condition". Well it worked okay but was badly scratched, paint-spattered and had some rust inside and out. I got the last laugh though as I sold it on months later on eBay (true condition stated in the auction) and made over $100 on it (and no, I'm not a trader).
I would say that on eBay, even though you usually pay over the odds, you do have some points of reference by viewing (and leaving) feedback, asking questions and seeing what other types of things the guy sells. If he has lots of other auctions for old china plates and bric-a-brac then you know it's estate stuff bought from a widow for next to nothing and completely untested. Anything that's described as "okay the last time I used it", "not tested" or "I don't have the equipment to test it" etc. assume it does NOT work and bid accordingly.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W6SBE on January 12, 2003
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Yes it never ceases to amaze me how some people claim mint perfection. I saw a want ad here on eHam from a K4 who wanted to buy mint condition ham equipment from the 40's that had never been owned by a smoker. I wrote to him and told him that I thought he was asking too much for mint equipment from the 40's, let alone demanding that it was never owned by a smoker. He sent me a scathing e-mail telling me to mind my own business. Too bad too because I was going to offer him a perfect Hallicrafters receiver that was near perfect but that had been owned by a former smoker, me.
I attended ham meetings at the Northforks Amateur Radio Club in Carter, Oklahoma in the early fifties and I think there was only one or two non-smokers in the room and the air was so thick with smoke you could cut it with a knife. It seems like almost every ham my dad knew was a smoker.
'Mint' 'Perfect' and '10+++' are used too easily these days. I fell for it several times in the 47 years I've been a ham and I don't think anything I bought under those conditions DIDN't have something wrong with it.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KB0ETC on January 12, 2003
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Mint condition can mean several things to several different people. "One persons junk is another’s fortune..." Well that analogy is very true.
To me MINT condition means no scratches, dents, dings, imperfections. The gear comes complete with all factory accessories, boxes book, manuals, addendums, cables, etc..
The equipment was used properly, no modifications, and has been very well cared for. Where as the equipment looks and performs as if it is brand new and never used.
I have several pieces of Yaesu equipment that meet those requirements. I save all boxes, brochures, manuals, invoices and receipts.
But the amateur radio gear is always “Buyer Beware”, just like a used car.
Good Luck in your ventures, 73’s and Good DX!
Brian - KBØETC
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KB0ETC on January 12, 2003
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Buying Second Hand, Let the buyer aware!
Check as much as you can into the history of the equipment, any troubles, when it was last used and why it is being sold.
LISTEN CAREFULLY for any inconsistencies. While there is legislation which gives you limited protection, enforcing it in a typical private deal could be more expensive in the long run that just taking the loss. Best to try to prevent problems at first – if you’re at all unsure LEAVE IT ALONE!
Record the deal Paying money for an item does not necessarily transfer ownership. Get a receipt for significant transactions and try to establish the sellers identity – a call sign / business card / car registration, etc. This may be useful if you need to resolve problems later.
Make sure that the seller owns the item Regrettably, swap shops and eBay sales are now probably the most common way to ‘fence’ stolen gear. Undoubtedly, gear is purchased at online location, used to develop an interest, then released again for the use of another newcomer. Not everyone will have receipts but the bigger value items usually have some ‘credibility’.
Look for the original carton, all the accessories, a warranty card and a reasonable story. Check out lists of missing equipment and stolen for the serial number. Try to establish whether newer equipment, likely to be purchased originally through Finance/HP/Credit deals, have been fully paid for. If it isn’t, then the equipment may still be owned by the dealer or credit agency.
Be aware that if you exchange money for a piece of equipment that is not owned by the seller, then you stand to lose both the goods AND your money. Look carefully Clean, unmodified equipment will attract a higher price. It suggests that the piece has been carefully looked after and used reasonably. If you can, however, get a look under the covers. A shifty modification is likely to cause intermittent problems and an obvious repair could point to an inexpert repair. It’s not always clear cut, however. You will need to use a bit of caution. A pristine rig may have been ‘blown up’ with no apparent visible evidence and conversely, a standard production rig may have been improved to ‘hot rod’ performance by the addition of a home designed add-on. After all, radio amateurs are experimenters by nature!If there are modifications, ask for the circuits and history – why was it done, was it successful and would it be done again? With the circuit diagrams in your possession, don’t forget that you can always ‘unstitch’ a modification…
Definite no-no’s, to my mind, would be things like transistors obviously not fitting the board, poor soldering and floating boards or components. A burn mark on any component or on the board indicates a massive failure at some stage – what else was damaged?
Safety first When you’ve got your prize back to the shack, remember that you haven’t a clue where it’s been. You haven’t got the background of a tightly legislated industry, with it’s test gear and professionals, to protect you. It’s best to assume that your new toy is going to BLOW UP IN YOUR FACE!Before applying any power to anything, determine what you expect it to do.
If in doubt, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! This is a good idea anyway – it generally saves time later on.Perform a thorough visual inspection. Particularly check for chafed wires, loose bolts or other components.
Measure that resistance across the power feed. Check that the power switch alters the reading. A piece of mains powered equipment will give a low resistance reading at D.C. (as used by most ohmmeters) but not zero!
Make sure that the equipment is properly fused. If at all unsure, downgrade the fuse. It’s better to replace the fuse two or three times than to irreparably damage the equipment and possibly yourself. Low voltage equipment would best be powered from a current limited, bench power supply. Car batteries can provide tremendous currents and are not recommended for first tests!If you can, bring the voltage up slowly, checking the current. Some power supply units don’t like this, so don’t try it with valued equipment or with switched mode type power supplies. If you can’t bring the supply voltage up slowly, switch it on from a healthy distance, and listen and smell for problems for at least a minute. Again, if you have the slightest doubt, kill the power and investigate.If you’ve got this far, you can now go and check for functionality.
If equipment has been stored, expect controls to be noisy and performance to drift. There are plenty of sources of suitable cleaners to improve these. Most electrical faults can be traced to connectors and connections – if something doesn’t appear to work (read the instructions again!) look for broken wires or dirty connectors. Freezer spray finds cracked pcb tracks quite quickly.
Just for fun, check out the Ten Commandments. I captured these from a RTTY transmission more years ago than I care to remember - but beyond the fun - there's serious messages in there!
The Ten Commandments.
1 Beware of the lightning that lurketh in an undischarged capacitor. lest it cause thee to be bounced upon thy buttocks in an ungentlmanly manner.
2 Cause thou the switch that supplieth large quantities of juice to be opened and thusly tagged, so that thy days be long in this earthly vale of tears.
3 Prove to thyself that all circuits that radiate and upon which thou worketh are earthed, lest they raise thee up to high frequency potential and cause thee to radiate also.
4 Take care that thou useth the proper method when thou takest the measure of high voltage circuits so thou does not incinerate both thyself and thy meter, for thou hast no serial number and can be easily replaced. but the meter doth have one and as a consequence bringeth much woe to the supply department.
5 Tarriest thou not amongst those who deal in intentional shocks for they are surely non believers and are not long for this earthly vale of tears.
6 Take care that thou tamperest not among interlocks and safety devices for this will incur the wrath of thy seniors and bring forth the fury of the safety officer to be visited on thy head and shoulders.
7 Worketh thou not upon energised equipment, for if thou doth, thy good friends will surely be buying strong liquor for thy wife and consoling her in other ways generally not acceptable to thee.
8 Verily I say unto you never service high voltage equipment alone for electric cooking is a slothful process, and thou mightest sizzle in thine own fat for hours on end before thy maker sees fit to bring thee into his fold.
9 Trifle thou not with radioactive tubes and substances lest they cause thee to glow in the dark like unto a flashlight and thy wife be disturbed nightly and have no further use for thee excepting for thy wage.
10 Commit thou to heart the works of the prophets which are written in the manual of instruction and giveth the straight dope which consoleth thee.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KB0ETC on January 12, 2003
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What is “Flea Speak” at Ham-Fests? Flea speak is the jargon of second-hand vendors at a ham radio festival. Often it may have two meanings.
Flea-speak with English translation follows:
This rig puts out a BIG signal - It's 50 kHz wide.
This is a really good CW rig - It doesn't work on SSB.
This is a really good SSB rig - It doesn't work on CW.
This is a really good rig - It doesn't work on CW or SSB.
The transmitter is outstanding - It doesn't receive.
The receiver is really hot - It doesn't transmit.
This rig is really hot - It's stolen.
It seems to be a vintage regenerative type - It oscillates.
I just re-tubed it - Got 'em from questionable used tube stock.
I just aligned it - The slugs on the transformers are jammed.
I don't know if it works - It doesn't work, probably never has.
It doesn't chirp - It doesn't chirp because it doesn't transmit.
The audio sounds great - The 100 / 120Hz buzz is faithfully reproduced.
I just had it serviced - I sprayed WD-40 over all the wiring.
It comes with the original box - Just brush out the kitty litter.
Better buy it now, cause it won't last - No translation needed here.
Sure, it works at full power - It sucks all it can from the wall outlet.
This rig has wide frequency coverage - It drifts up and down and out of band.
Frequency stability is great - The VFO doesn't work - you'll have to use crystals.
Real popular rig in its day - There were whole HF nets on the repair and maintenance problems.
QST gave this one a really great review - The language broke new ground for profanity.
It might need a bit of tweaking - Marconi himself couldn't fix it, much less align it.
It was used in government service - It was stored outdoors on a wooden pallet.
The dial drive may need lubricating - The gears are stripped and the setscrew's frozen.
I plugged it in to check that it lights up - The light came from the two-foot high flames.
I'm selling it because I have two of them - I'm getting rid of my parts radio.
You won't find one at a 'better' price - 'Better' defined as solely from the point of view of the seller.
This is a collector's item - The manufacturer just went belly up and won't honor the warranty.
It came from an estate sale - If you have any problem take it up with the original owner.
I had it on the air just last night - And you thought the woodpecker was gone?.
It worked last time I used it - If it still worked, I'd still be using it.
The only lightning damage was a fuse - The only lightning damage I recognized was a fuse.
I have the [ ? ] somewhere, I'll send it to you, trust me - You'll never see the [ ? ].
I'll help you carry it to the car - I'll do anything to unload this boat anchor.
It works O.K. on 80 meters - It had some parasitics’ but I got in and really screwed it up and now I want to unload it.The tubes used by this rig are worth the asking price - The rig uses a rare 7360 beam deflection tube for a balanced modulator, but it's blown and you'll spend at least $80+ to get a new one.
This is the rig of my dreams I really wanted one of these as a kid, but now I've got to let it go - As I've gotten older, I've learned what a hunka junk it is
The signal quality of this rig was easily recognizable in its day - The high distortion and bad audio quickly identified this rig.
This rig will bring back the feelings and atmosphere of vintage ham gear - The bypass capacitors to the AC line put enough voltage on the chassis to give you a shock in the lips through the microphone, and it smokes so bad when you turn it on that you'll probably start coughing and wheezing.
I'd keep this baby, but my wife is making me clean everything out of the shack - I finally got around to giving this thing the proverbial heave-ho.
There are a couple of other people interested in it - Someone sat on it to tie his shoelaces while walking past the table.
You'd better buy it now, because I'm leaving soon - The previous buyer and his brother, Guido, are heading back toward the table and they aren't smiling.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W5HTW on January 12, 2003
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I think the only way I'd accept "Mint" as an accurate description would be if the unit had never been opened at all. I've seen a couple of those. For example, some unbuilt Heathkits, still packaged as new. I saw on eBay a National HRO-500 still in the sealed plastic. Those I accept as mint.
But one man's "Excellent" is another man's "My God." Or almost. Yet the things I have purchased through eBay and through QTH.net, have been as described. I have not been disappointed yet, but I think that comes, as others have suggested, in knowing the product you are looking at, knowing what it is supposed to do, and asking the seller "does it do it?"
You'll hear and read all the warnings about "Last time I used it." So ask questions. That is not necessarily a bad phrase. Ask: "Since you last used it, is it still complete?" "Do you know of any reason it might not work today?" "Why did you stop using it?" "What do you believe it might need today to get it working?"
If the person says "I don't know anything about this stuff so it is being sold as is, and I can't test it, or even turn it on," then you have some cause for alarm, but not necessarily a reason to skip the product if the price is right. You can still ask questions. "Do you see any obviously damaged places?" "Do you see any places where parts might go and there aren't any parts there?" "What do you know about where it came from?" Then you can make a judgement call. If the price is low enough, I'll take the chance if it is an item I want or think I can use. If the price is high, I won't.
Ask for photos. I will very rarely even consider buying something if I can't see photos. But confirm: "Are the photos in your ad of the actual piece of equipment you are selling, or of another similar piece?" "Send me photos of the piece in question."
If the photos are of another piece, forget it and move on. That is deceptive, and you can expect the rest of the deal to be deceptive, too.
If the person doesn't have photos, get detailed in asking for a description. Ask for marks, damage, faded paint, missing tubes (empty tube sockets) cut wires, etc.
And remember. It IS used equipment! If you are looking for that near-perfect KWM2A for $100 bucks, you are in the wrong world - return to dreamland. If you see it for $300 bucks you know it isn't "mint" or even all there. I see used equipment go for new prices and that's dumb. Pay used prices and don't expect new equipment. It won't be.
Ed
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KB8ASO on January 12, 2003
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Mint = In the exact same condition as when it went into box at the factory. Everything must work. No damage of anykind. NO MODS. Rig should have never been opened or repaired. Accessories supplied with the item in unused condition. Manuals unmarked, no wear. All original packaging. Nothing less. Period. In it's truest form the radio should have never been removed from it's original box and the box should still be factory sealed. Now htat is really mint! Anything else is "near mint" or less.
Minty = Scope mouthwash.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KD1XH on January 12, 2003
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I've only bought 2 used rigs, both bought at hamfests. Icom 725 had a couple problems after a while (common ones), Kenwood TS-850S with no problems ever.
I've never sold any radios and probably won't. I don't part with expensive stuff easily (and I use my radios too!)
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WB2GFR on January 12, 2003
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A good reference is on the Collins Collector site www.collinsradio.org check out the grading standards that is used for that equipt. One question to any one else What is up with hams and Original Boxes seems a little stange, i use the radio and not the box.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by AD5IU on January 12, 2003
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A few have mentioned they rely on eBay feedback to get a feel for how trustworthy a seller might be. Be careful taking 'positive feedback' as gospel. If you follow eBays 'Trust & Safety' forum you'll find how unscrupulous sellers will 'farm' positive feedback by selling some items specifically to garner good feedback before they start selling the more expensive items.
In addition, it looks like the bulk of negative feedback isn't even given in the first place. Buyers are hesitant to give negative feedback for fear of a 'retalitory negative' and/or just don't want to be the one to spoil someones otherwise good record.
I always look for feedback that rate the seller for transactions that are similar to the one I'm contemplating, i.e. just because a seller has 100 positive feedbacks for selling DVD's doesn't mean they know how to pack/ship a piece of electronic gear. Also, if s/he has a 100 positive feedbacks for buying stuff on eBay doesn't necessarily indicate they will perform positively as a seller.
Always, ALWAYS email the seller.. ask any/all questions you can think of and trust your instinct. If you have ANY doubts, pass on auction. One good thing about eBay, if you miss getting that item you just have to have today, another one will show up tomorrow.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KX8N on January 12, 2003
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I bought a 10 Meter rig on e-Bay, and the guy said that the radio got great on-the-air reports. WONDERFUL! After I got it, hooked it up, and had 0 Watts RF out, I found out that "they guy who owned it before" told him that it got great on-the-air reports. But for some odd reason, he had never actually used the rig himself. You know, right after he bought it, he bought something else, too, and didn't need it anymore. That's original. After about two months I finally got my money back from the liar. But I was lucky, both that I got the money back, and that it wasn't a $1000 rig or something. I have no problem with selling radios on e-Bay, but I won't buy them from there.
Dave
KX8N
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KA1BQJ on January 12, 2003
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Raymond, thanks for posting a good article.
About a year or so ago, I posted one on eHam.net about developing a standard for rating used gear. A "Mint", "Like New" or "10" rating would indicate certain characteristics; a 9+ rating, would have others, etc. I thought this type of rating system needed to be developed after looking at photos, etc., of gear on eBay (and other places) that had condition "ratings" that were obviously less than less than the claimed condition. Just saying something is "Mint" can be subjective without applying some standards about what "Mint" really means.
I couldn't believe the negative comments I received about trying to develop such a system. I still maintain that a rating system IS needed and that potential buyers could it that as the "standard" when asking questions of the sellers - even if the sellers don't adhere to it.
Regards,
Tom / KA1BQJ
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N5NW on January 12, 2003
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I enjoy photography as well as ham radio, and the photography buffs sometimes quibble over grading as well. When they do, the practices of KEH camera in Atlanta is always mentioned. Their standards are fair and equitable.
"Mint" is unused, in my opinion. No one will *ever* get mint equipment from me. I have better ways to invest my money. I don't think there is a good return from investing in unused radio equipment. I'm always a little leary of a mobile rig that has never been mobile, too. There are good reasons, sure. But if I buy a mobile capable rig, it will most probably go mobile at some point.
Anyway, below is the KEH camera grading system. "Mint" in our terms equates to "Like New" over there, I suspect.
Good luck with the purchases, and most of all get those rigs on the air! I'm tired of hearing myself send "CQ CQ CQ de N5NW N5NW K" over and over and over and ...
de N5NW (Marty)
Bellbrook, Ohio
*********
From KEH Camera:
We believe that our grading system is the best in the industry and offers an option for every taste and budget. We strive to provide clear, accurate descriptions of each grade so you will know what to expect when you buy from us. When you trade or sell your equipment to us, we evaluate it using the same criteria. All used equipment is guaranteed to work, regardless of its cosmetic condition and is covered by KEH’s 60 day warranty.
NEW As packaged by manufacturer. Manufacturer’s USA warranty. Never used or owned by a consumer.
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NEW DEMO As packaged by manufacturer. Manufacturer’s USA warranty. Never owned by a consumer but used as demonstration equipment. May show various stages of wear including slight dings or pecks.
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LN "Like New" Perfect. Includes original box and instructions and any manufacturer provided accessories.
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LN- "Like New Minus" 97-99% of original condition. Extremely slight wear that can only be seen upon very close inspection. Box and accessories not included.
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EX+ "Excellent Plus" 90-96% of the original condition. Shows moderate wear. May have slight marks on finish. Glass very clean.
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EX "Excellent" 80-89% of the original condition. Shows moderate wear. May have small dings, pecks and slight finish wear. Glass may have some dust, but no marks.
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BGN "Bargain" 70-79% of original condition. Shows more than average wear. May have dents, dings and a goodly amount of brassing and finish loss. Glass may have marks that should not affect picture quality.
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UG "Ugly" Very rough looking. Multiple impressions in metal, excessive finish loss and brassing are likely. Glass will have marks, fungus or haze that will probably affect picture quality.
ACCESSORIES INCLUDED:
NEW and LN as packaged by manufacturer. Manufacturer or distributor does not always provide straps, batteries, caps, shades, etc.
Instruction books, caps, batteries, cases and straps sold separately for all other
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KE1MB on January 12, 2003
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I must say I think your title to this article is perfect!
Second is that yes there is a lot of used gear out there, and there are many a ham that make side cash on used gear. Well there is not much you can do about the salesman, but as a buyer you can BEWARE. I bought a used rig, a radio that I took home after a field day event, a radio that belonged to a club, a radio that I got to use for 4 months before I made a offer to buy. Then when I did make that offer I was made sure it was one that they could not refuse. Why? Because I got to use it for 4 months before, because besides all of it's scratches and dings it was a solid rock that ran everytime I turned it on. What does this mean? Savy buyer. Always ask questions. There are deals out there and there are guys making money. The best bet is to figure out who is who.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W5KRM on January 13, 2003
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You ought to see what KC7CYA told me about a receiver he sold me, that it had been "restored" and worked perfectly.
Well, to some restoration means throwing some finish on the cabinet but doing nothing to the electronic portion of the unit. You guessed it, I got this piece of junk and it didn't work. In fact, I had someone look at it and we both came to the same conclusion. It probably never worked at least before he shipped it.
Odd thing is, we had a written agreement that he doesn't ship it unless he agrees to the conditions that it arrive working, not DOA.
He stated he had a professional shipper double box it, pack it, etc. Wasn't double boxed, etc. It was insured, but he won't file a claim because he knows if they investigate it, it will get thrown back at him and he will have to fork over the money.
Bottom line: If you can't stand behind a sale, don't bother the populus with your junk.
Remember this callsign:
KC7CYA
He is a rip off artist. Don't deal with him, now or ever if you value your income!
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA2UBY on January 13, 2003
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saw your artical response. I agree,you get what you pay for. I've had pretty good success on ebay. 97% of the people are honest, there are a few out there, you see them at ham fest's too. I picked up a tower from eham ads, this past weekend. better then I could afford normally, a silient key deal, they just wanted it out, all I had to do was come get it. He's happy it's gone, I'm happy to have it. Haven't convinced the wive we really need this yet, but that will come in time.
Does KEH have a web site. the reason I'm asking is, I'm looking for an odd piece of video equipment, its a Hitach or Sanyo V-corder. made in the late 70's, one for the first cartridge video recorders (B/W), with a weird format. I have some cartridges I want to transcribe, but haven't been able to find a used unit anywhere. I've had friends look all the time, even at Dayton for the past few years. nothing. Anyone ever see's one of these, even if it doesn't work, let me know.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by K8AG on January 13, 2003
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I always wonder how can there be so many people on 40 meters every night. With all of the "mint" and "new-in-box" gear, I would figure the airwaves to be empty. ;)
Its like the ebay ad for an antenna tuner recently stating new-in-box. Of course in the photo a knob was missing. When I emailed the seller mentioning that, he said it was a mistake that the picture with the knob missing was used. Not that the "new-in-box" was a mistake, but just that they used the wrong picture.
Doubt, doubt, doubt. And if it looks too good, somebody's getting ripped off. Likely you.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by NB6Z on January 13, 2003
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Well Ray, you said it yourself, "Apparently no one ever has bought an expensive piece of ham gear with the intention of using it". Here in Portland Oregon we see ads every where for at least one furnature store that is "closing it's doors forever" and selling everything at unheard of prices! This goes on for at least a year, then another furnature store opens up in the same building... If you want to be a successfull salesman, you need a gimick. A successful buyer can use the same tactics. If someone offers to sell a transceiver that was only used for receiving, then you should counter offer at half the asking price with the statement that "why should I pay for your stupidity". This is the lost art of bargaining...
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by K2GW on January 13, 2003
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One of my other hobbies is stamp collecting, where the term "mint" is used for unused stamps versus "used", ones that were placed on letter. The term actually derives from coin collecting, where "mint" coins are those that went into a collection directly from the mint where they were struck and were never used or circulated as currency.
Therefore, to be consistent with the original use, any radio that is described as "mint" must never have been used once it left the factory. Of course, that means the seller has no idea as to whether it actually works since he can't have powered it up!!
For condition, "excellent" is a better description. In stamps, we actually have a internationally accepted scale to describe a stamp (either mint or used) that ranges from Suberb, Very Fine, Fine, Good, Poor, etc. so everyone knows what they're getting in mail order transactions.
73
Gary, K2GW
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KD7KOY on January 13, 2003
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I think alot of people get ripped off by the "denotion" that "ham" means they know radios. That is not always true. First.. if a ham says "I have'nt plugged it in" or "have'nt tested" I am leary of that.
For one, most hams are curious about radios. I can't imagine someone buying a radio and at least not seeing if it works..
Secound, I don't want to buy something that someone does'nt have the knowledge or time to try it. If they don't on that particular radio, then the rest of their gear must be the same.
Third, ask if there is any "mods". I've seen more rigs messed up with the "golden screwdriver" than anything.
Also, expect any "boatanchor" gear to need work.
There is no such thing in gear that is 25-50 years old as "pristine". The case may look good but time have taken it's toll on the caps etc. Expect time, money and most of all the skill to get it back on the air.
As far as people who make money going to "estate sales"..you take your chances.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WB2WIK on January 13, 2003
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I've never needed anything so badly that I'd want to buy it without touching it, first.
Find a local deal!
The only intangibles I pay for are taxes, insurance and electric power. After all, who's ever seen a kilowatt-hour?
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N8EMR on January 13, 2003
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Hey that car was only used on sundays. Granted it was sunday at Daytona, Talladega and rockingham, but the statement could be true.
I find it hard to beleive any 20 year old radio would be mint. No matter how hard you try its going to get scratched if it was used. I see lots of Mint condition and repainted in the same auction for a lot of heatkit gear.. Sorry thats not mint in my words but in some minds it is. Does mint apply to function or look? Is a dial builb out a mint condition radio? No, Why not, you can just replace it adn it would be mint?
If its out of the box it cant be mint. If its out of the box it cant be new. Its used.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W6YNS on January 13, 2003
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You hit the nail on the head, when it comes to purchasing any used ham equipment, the same goes for used automobiles or anything second hand. There are some people who will tell a person anything to sell something; even if it is dishonest. The best thing to do when buying used equipment is to have somebody more experienced with the electornics look at the item you are considering buying(That is if you don't understand equipment) or look at it yourself. If the item is coming from Rhode Island and you live in California try to learn much about the seller if possible. I would atempt to buy used equipment from a person you may know, but is easier said than done. Fortunately I haven't been stiffed over
Well 73's DE W6YNS
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N3TNQ on January 13, 2003
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I would not classify anything in the original post as a "rant". It brings up some good points that need to be readdressed every so often. Remember that there are new hams joining our ranks every day and they often don't know about this. I realize that it's "buyer beware" out there. I, so far, have been pretty lucky. I've bought quite a few radios from ebay and other online sources and have had mostly positive results. It just irks me that there are those few out there who are willing to take advantage of a newbie. I especially hate that line "as with all electronics.." If you honestly and legitimately know your item to work, then at least gaurantee it to not be DOA. I can understand that stuff breaks down unexpectedly, but at least assure me it will work for a few minutes after I receive it.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA4MJF on January 13, 2003
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KC7CYA
must mean "Cover Your Ass"
:-)
73 de Ronnie
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KA1EZE on January 13, 2003
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With the newer computer based radios, it would be nice to have an rx/tx "odometer" for them. I know some will say they could be hacked (like cars rolling back!) but who knows, maybe someday they could do something secure this way.
But then again, a rig with only five hours on it, but into a grossly mismatched antenna vs. 100 hours by a good operator, hmmm...
rick
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N4GI on January 13, 2003
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Good feedback on e-bay means absolutely NOTHING. An estate sale vulture with "good feedback" is still an estate sale vulture. They are quite easy to spot.
Why have such a large proportion of ham sales gone over to that e-bay "dark-side" you ask? Well, hams are, in general, cheap. Try selling something at your next local ham fest swapmeet. After a day full of grunts, groans and sighs, about your "too-high" asking-price, you'll take your item back home and put it on ebay too.
Everyone wants something for nothing, plus a 50% discount, a little reasonability goes a long way.
YMMV
Blake N4GI
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by N1YRK on January 13, 2003
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I've had much better luck on ebay than the MIT flea market. In addition, I feel as though I have the time to compare and make an educated bid. I think others feel the same way. Yes, I miss the fesitval air of the flea market, but I don't miss getting home and finding I was lied to.
I feel the same way when I am the seller. Here's a story: One time I sold my HW-100 at the MIT flea market, and had just the 12v power supply left. A guy came buy and introduced himself as a heathkit collector, and asked what else I might have. I told him what I had sold lately and he was all misty-eyed, saying he would have paid more for it. We got into a great conversation about Heatkits and so forth, and he told me he was looking for an HR-10B. Well I happened to have one, that I seldom used but I had since I was a kid. He gave mea phone call a week later wanting me to sell it to him. I finally thought that he knew his stuff and it would be a lot better place for the radio than my basement. So I brought it to the next MIT flea market. While I don't live far away, I don't have a car so I have to pack my stuff in a card and haul it there, which can be quite a bit of work. Finally the guy comes by and tells me that my radio is junk, there's a socket that doesn't belong there and it's probably been hacked up and he didn't want it -- acting like I had lied to him. Well I thought the radio looked in pretty good shape and I certainly hadn't tinkered in it. Back at home, I found online photos and confirmed that my radio was indeed in original condition. This guy is a LID, a senile old crank.
Had I waited and sold the stuff on ebay (this guy never used the internet) I could have simply sent him photos of the radio, and we could have done the transaction remotely.
The HR-10B is in my basement. I don't feel as impatient for the next flea market this coming spring as I used to.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KJ6RA on January 13, 2003
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Maybe the next article will deal with the term "Rare"
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KC0MBM on January 13, 2003
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N5NW's posting regarding KEH Camera's used equipment policy was excellent. These guys move more used photo stuff everyday than any ham dealer does in a year.
Someone needs to set a standard. Firearms are another example. The NRA recognized this many years ago and created a benchmark for grading used guns.
Personally, I believe, Ebay is an enormous waste of time. This website is quick and easy to use. I've bought lot's of stuff found in Eham's classifieds. Everyone without exception has been fair and honest.
This is from a new ham that has been on a yearlong buying spree.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W9TM on January 14, 2003
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The best way to avoid the pain and frustration of dealing with the semi-pros who often exaggerate the condition or value of the gear they are selling is to simply have "trading" be a much smaller part of your involvement in ham radio. There are many great aspects to this hobby to keep an individual involved. Belong to local clubs, learn and operate new modes, build something, help newcomers, experiment with simple wire antennas, and on and on.
Sure, I've had periods during my 42 years of hamming where I was actively shopping for some particular used equipment. And it was always a relief to finalize a deal fair to both parties and get back to hamming. Checking Ebay and the swap boards daily and being disappointed that so little of what is being offered there is from technically competent, honest hams is something you don't have to do. Spend the time enjoying yourself working some dx, populating the pc board of your latest qrp project or whatever.
For newcomers, I guess it's tough. You probably need something inexpensive yet with reasonable performance. Try joing a local club and make your needs known. Or perhaps you can find a veteran who would be willing give up some hours and lead you through the mine field of internet used equipment shopping. But when you've found some gear to use, don't make the object of being a ham simply beginning the trade process all over again. There are lots of other things to do! Enjoy!
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N8EMR on January 14, 2003
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Ahh, yes. Rare. Guy list a "rare" item on ebay. Well, Ok... He list 5 "RARE" items on ebay at the same time.
Hardly rare if you have 5 of them on the market at the same time.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N8EMR on January 14, 2003
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ebay feedback needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You need to look back at what people were selling. If all they sold were nicknacks and now they have a S line forsale I would question the sellers a bit more. Also take a look at how often they sell. If they havent sold anything in a year and all of a sudden have high dollar item forsale I would worry about a hacked account.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WB2WIK on January 14, 2003
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I suppose it's worth stating, also, that "mint" does not necessarily imply "working." As someone else pointed out, something truly "mint" may have never been taken from its carton, and thus no one could possibly know if it works, or not.
I'd prefer to have a rig that has been used daily for ten years and is known to work, rather than one last used five years ago and is thought to work.
WB2WIK/7
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by K0RGR on January 15, 2003
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It's really only been the last ten years that I've gotten involved in selling any used gear - I guess I've ridden the rest of it to death or given it away - and I have found it to be somewhat rewarding but highly exasperating.
I won't buy "mint" gear and I don't expect to get it, though I have been pleasantly surprised. Maybe someday those rigs will become collector's items, and then I'll wish I had 'museum quality' pieces, but when I buy a used rig, I just want it to work. For the most part, I buy my used gear from a dealer (AES) whom I know throughly tests and repairs their used gear. I have also bought and sold a lot through this web site and QRZ.COM, and so far, I have not been seriously burned.
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by K3PZ on January 16, 2003
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Ive learned my lesson on Ebay like alot of others have...."the hard way". If a deal sounds too good to be true and I really want the item, then I ask the seller for his phone number. It takes me about 60 seconds to find out if he is a BS artist or not. I have a complete list of question all ready to go and if I dont like the answer to ANY or them, then I pass. If he won't give his phone number or if he answers my questions via e-mail with little 2 word answers, then I'm gone. You cant look him square in the eyes or see his body launguage like you can in person at a hamfest but you can certainly listen for inconsistencies in his story or the way he answers or doesnt answer your questions. If you do your homework and use a little common sense, you will have much better success in buying used gear.
73's
K3PZ
Paul Zora
www.k3pz.com
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N1ZQU on January 16, 2003
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Phrase Translations:
Unit has not been tested.
(This means, it doesn't work)
It looks like it works
(but probably not)
looks to be in good condition
(But probably isn't)
It worked well last time it was used.
(Who knows when that was.)
Original owner said it worked:
(That was about 30 years ago)
I don't know anyting about these things:
(Or anything else for that matter)
Bidding starts at $1
(Like your really going to get it for a buck!)
Unit needs TLC.
(This means it's badly beat up)
Probably an easy fix
(Nothing a gallon of gas and match won't cure)
Got this from an estate sale:
(Scoured the swapmeet and found this piece of S**t)
Could use cleaning
(Sandblaster not included!)
Just has a little dust.
(there is more dirt on this than in your yard)
looks so good it may have never been used
(And I have a bridge in NY I'll sell ya.)
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by AE4SE on January 16, 2003
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Words carry meaning, and if you advertise MINT, it should mean the same to you as it does me. No one over the age of 12 should have to ask what mint means. I for one am on the list for being taken more than once for believing wrong advetisements on Ebay. When someone says MINT they should also put up the pic of the equiptment they are selling. After being taken in a few deals, I always send an email asking if it is a pic of the rig they are selling, how many filters, etc etc. You cant ask to many questions. And if it makes them angry you are most likely better off not purchasing the item. Certainly dont place a bet if they dont respond back to you. The first so called MINT rig I purchased was one where the face was replaced and made to look new, boy had that rig seen better days. After making repairs to put the rigs back to real working condition, I took the loses and just marked it all up to a learning experience. I have decided to keep my cash in my pocket after seeing the same people selling more rigs on Ebay claiming the same story. And who would question their words; considering the rating they have. Anyone that tells me it is just a business and they have a right to sell rigs and get what they can, I hold my breath and wonder if they have also taken a few folks themselves, or plan to. To many hams are looking to find parts, filters, etc, for rigs that are out of production; that I understand; you take chances even then because of age. But to advertise MINT and LIKE NEW and HARDLY EVER USED BY MY DAD knowing that it is not; are liars and thieves. You are putting a bad name on the hobby. I have bought a few rigs from hams that I know, but they are known by me and would take it back if I baulked at the rig for any reason. To many young hams have been taken as I and have soured on the hobby and many dont have the money to recover. I dontated a used rig to the neighbors son because of a so called Drake in EXCELLENT CONDITION, it was struck by lightening. Now you explain to me how being struck by lightening still qualifies as EXCELLENT CONDITION. But who would have guessed it, the seller had and excellent rating an promised to take anything back. He didnt; so I loanded him my older TenTec until he can save enough for a new rig. It is a shame what is going on and you are right on target with your post and we hams as a group should refuse to purchase gear from non hams on Ebay or something close to it that will cause a change on Ebay and other boards. Things have got to be changed and I am afraid it is going to be necessary to start out with hard and fast rules.
Just my opinion.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WU2M on January 18, 2003
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I have made several purchases on e-baY. So far, everything has been as advertised. This is what I suggest if you deal on e-baY.
Ask for phone numbers and talk to the person you wish to deal with. If they don't want to talk to you directly for some reason, the chances are something is a bit strange with the deal.
I also suggest that if you purchase a big ticket item on e-baY that you use Pay-Pal if it is an option. This way you can buy the optional insurance incase you get shafted or are not satisfied.
Using a credit card when using Pay-Pal is also not a bad Idea as this adds one more layer of protection against fraud.
Cash or money order only deals scare me, I have heard a lot of fellow amateurs get shafted in this way. I used to sell this way, but I don't anymore. I like to use Pay-Pal. It is actually quicker and more secure for the buyer. I like to buy that way, so I sell that way also.
Look for excessive negative feedback or someone who changes their identity a lot and stay away from these people. I understand that some negative feedback is going to happen. After all, some people are impossible to deal with and misunderstandings do happen. If I see a negative feedback left by someone, I look at their feedback also. You can find the troublemakers that way.
There are a lot of good honest sellers online and a few who are not. It's a shame that a few people ruin it for the majority. Any deal that sounds to good to be true, probably is.
73
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N8EMR on January 18, 2003
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Talking to someone may not help. If there are really selling "dad's estate" its just a radio dad used once in a while.
Paypal is as risky as most any payment forms and sometimes more so.
Many vendors are getting away from CC through paypal insisting in paypal funds transfer only. mainly because of all the CC fraud.
money orders/cashiers checks are risky for the seller. It can take weeks for a MO/CC to really clear as valid. You many find months later that the CC was forged and your out the money.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by G1YGJ on January 18, 2003
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In the UK we have " Polo Mints, the Mints with the Hole ". So if it is in " Mint Condition " it has a big hole in the middle !!! (:-).
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA2JJH on January 18, 2003
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Mint condition to me means a factory sealed box. No ifs and or buts.
I have purchased GMRS radio's from several dealers on ebay. They all were supposed to be new. They were, but they were what is known as "repacks". They were all Motorola. Considering how much money I saved, I will live.
Now with like mint condition, I would insist on the original box, and perhaps reciept. Also I check what feed back these people get. I am very leary if they will not accept "PAYPAL".
Also beware U.P.S policy on damaged goods during shipping is a total joke! You have to send the damaged goods to a U.P.S. inspection center. After a couple of months, they will tell you it was not packed right!!!
You will not get the insurence money. It happened to me twice. I had the equipment packed at a professional
packing store. I would rather go FED-EX Ground. If not too costly FED-EX AIR 2nd day
As another ham who frequents Eham said..."I would rather have the instant gratification of walking away with a rig under my arm, then see what U.P.S. will do to it!" Someone said that Ebay is killing Hamfest's.
Maybe so. At a hamfest, I will be the judge of what is "MINTCONDITION". You can also feel out the seller.
I would rather talk turkey, face to face with a fellow ham. This is preferable to the so called Estate sale bozo.
.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KA0ZLG on January 19, 2003
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I would like to add my 2 cents worth here. I did get an HF rig off e-bay, the owner sad it worked the last time he used it and that it was his back up rig, and that it came with a mic and that it is in good shape. It is an older rig late 70s solid state with tube finals (tempo2020). so I know that it would not in the greatest shape. BUT did expect it to work when I got it. HERE IS MY STORY. A fellow ham (Don) and I were talking and about our fist rigs we had. I got my ticket in the late 80s and he got his about 90 or so. I was telling him about the reviews on ebay and that I would like to get a Tempo 202 again and he said that he would like to get a 101 again. well he found one on ebay and won the bid and sent his money off to the seller. I found a Tempo2020 and put in a bid and got it. I emailed the seller and he said that he would get the shipping charges and let me know. I sent the money order off to him and asked if he could let me know when he shipped it so I would know when to get it. The U.P.S. man left it in the garage like he dose with most stuff and when I got home I opened it up and let it set for about 3 hours before plugging it in, I live in MN and wanted the condensation to dry off before plugging it in. I spent most of the 3 hours reading the manual and taking to my wife. Well the kind man that he is also sent the matching speaker along and said that IF I WANTED I could SEND HIM $20.00. I thought well I could do that. He was nice enough to trust me and he did say if I wanted to. well I started to thinking when I removed the rig from the box I didn't see any mic. I started looking though the box and could not find it. no problem I emailed him and let him know that I didn't get one with it and I also sent him the ebay url saying that it came with a mic. also said I would send him the $20.00 this was all before I turned the rig on and tried to tune it up. the rig received just great. even better that my Yaesu 840. better quality audio and less noise . Well I tried to get the rig to tune up and could not get it to have any out put. So I hooked it up to my Dummy load. nothing. I was up set .
I emailed the seller and he replied saying he will send the mic and that I was tuning it up wrong and told me how to do it. you know I was doing it the same way he told me. I took the tubes (12By7 and 2 ea. 6146B) out and took them to a friend that has a tube tester.(what a hard thing to find ) I think they went out with DOS or sometime before. they checked out good. so I know that the trouble is in the radio someplace and I hope that I can find it. I need to find a service manual for one so if anyone has one out there I will be glad to buy it or pay for the copping . any way I think I will wait for the mic before I give my rating on ebay about him.
OH yea My friend Don who bought a 101 . he sent the money and the seller received the money and sent the rig to him. Don was waiting for the rig and never got it so he emailed the seller and the seller sent him the tracking code and all info about it . Don could not find it and the seller thinks he may have sent it to the wrong person. Don did get his money back.. but it was the rig he wanted not the money.
AS THEY SAY BUYER BEWRE. I don't think I will buy anything from ebay again soon.
73'
mike KA0ZLG
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RE: Caveat Emptor
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by WA2JJH on January 20, 2003
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Adam-12, You are not a sucker. I would just say it was a good learning experience. As for fellow ham cheating fellow ham. True fact 1 out of every 10 people in life have sociopathic tendencie's. There is a Ham that I used to think of as a friend. He is fixture at many of the Hamfest's in my area. Since he has cheated every
Ham friend he knew, as well as business associates.His table has a few pieces of crap. However he will be more than glad to take your money for his latest get rich quick scams. One of his EX-business associates is serving Federal Time.
What comes around goes around! 73
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA2JJH on January 20, 2003
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Let me try a little humor. I know it will not be as good as DR K0FF.
For sale. Mobile HF rig. First Ham only used it for salt water fishing DX expeditions. Stolen from a 1968
volkswagon. Butchered (AHH I mean USDA OFFICIAL MARS/CAP)modified. Worked great for a toothless Crackhead until he had to sell it for more crack.
Condition....East L.A. mint condition. The bullet holes are less than 9MM. Great paint job by a
local gang banger/ graffti artist. He is now on death row, so the rig is a collectors item!
Performance...RX response from ignition noise to 60 cycle hum @ 1000mv
TX...IT is a very rare QRPpppp output. Simply great for QRP use, or no use for that matter!
Complete with a Deluxe CB echo ultra power mic.
Sorry mounting bracket and power cables are missing.
But I will try to steal power cables and bracket from a
Car stereo. They might just fight. Just use a ball hammer.
My terms...Just send me a photo copy of your drivers ticket or parking ticket. I Will ship as soon as I get your bank account number, credit card number, and social security number.I will give a 2% discount
For the first buyer!
It will be shipped in a hefty bag right to your home.
Highest bidder will pay triple FED-EX overnight charges. Here is the kicker, The VFO knob is only on the rig,and it has a nice feel.The missing knobs can be purchased at any Radio Shack.
Please ignore all negitive feedback from Ebay. It is a CIA conspiricy!
I thought a little humor might be nice. I know, I aint no Jean Shepperd!!!
73's and laughs MIKE WA2JJH
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KC5NYJ on January 20, 2003
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I may be mistaken, but it seems the Mint Leaf is a rather jagged edged, bumpy textured item. If you buy a radio in "Mint" or "Minty" condition, be prepared....
In eBay jargon,
"It Worked Last Time I Used It" means "It Worked Last Time I Used It, Which Was Right Before It Stopped Working"
"Works Great, But I Don't Have Antenna To Test Transmit" means "It Doesn't Transmit And That's Why I'm Selling It"
My favorites are the listings where the seller has pasted the specs and picture from the manufacturers site, included no details on the cosmetic or working condition, and only takes money orders.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA2JJH on January 21, 2003
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The OM who asked how could someone say the Drake rig was in excellent condition only to find out it was struck by lightening. I guess the Lid ham seller was in excellent condition in the E.R., after the lightening strike! The rig has to go to I.C.U. after some parts transplants.
I am not mocking the buyer.I have been sucker punched too. If a seller cannot look you in the eye, it is time to fly.
I, like every else has an opinion. Buying HF rigs though Ebay or mail is stressing. From this Forum and other experience, I will not buy certain items on ebay.
This just makes me want to buy at a local hamfest. As many other hams noted, if the seller will not let you tune it into a dummy load, walk away.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by KA5AQP on January 25, 2003
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I have bought and sold on eBay on a small scale for several years with no bad experiences coming or going. Check feedback for "bobpearson". The first rule is to mentally delete all superlatives such as "mint", "amazing", etc. Since these are subjective terms and what is "mint" to a seller may be something else to you. Second rule is there are no bargains on eBay. It is an "amazing" example of economic forces at work. When I see something I want I put in a maximum bid for the amount I am willing to pay. I rarely bid again. When I sell I place a Buy It Now for the amount I expect to get and a reserve price $5 under that figure.
There are always exceptions. I recently paid a little extra for an amplifer because it was close enough to pick it up and the seller agreed to let me see it in operation and show me the fine points of operation.
The ones that worry me are ham items from "estates" and such. These people usually admit up front that they don't have a clue but you are still buying a pig in a poke.
The most important rule is to think before you buy---or sell!
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by RAD1OMAN on January 26, 2003
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GREAT Subject line... especially when you consider that a radio, if not purchased from a dealer/seller that cannot back the warrenty, is a USED RADIO. The thing may be from an estate where the SK just bought the radio, put it in the closet and never operated it, or a rig won at a hamfest, or a radio that was retired from the SS Minnow.
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by WA2JJH on April 18, 2003
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The Minnow had two radio's. The VHF one that was destroyed in the wreck. If the VHF did work even with all of Gillagans folys,the show would have lasted two weeks.
The radio I want from the Minnow was that white plastic AM/FM transistor radio, that the proffessor
modified to transmit on two episodes. How he made DX contacts with germainium I.F. transistors is beyond me.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by N0TONE on June 3, 2003
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Yes, hams DO swap gear that often. It blows me away.
In the past year, I have visited the homes of about two dozen hams. Here are the categories I place them in.
1) Active ham. The rig has a key and mic connected. The wires are rumpled. There are polished spots on the VFO knob on the rig. Pencils and pens are visible on the desk. If he's a real operator, there will NOT be a computer anywhere near the operating desk, unless he contests. His station will have one or two rigs at the most, plus maybe a VHF rig or two. This guy buys his rigs used and keeps them.
2) The collector. This is the one you see most often with photos on the web. He has many shelves of equipment and it all looks pristine. It's been a long time since he was on the air. There are no fingerprints on keys or microphones and the knobs have no worn spots. He has a lot of rigs, and they get zero usage. This guy is the equipment seller's dream I know, I've sold a lot of gear to these guys!
3) The almost ham. This one surprised me. I have seen quite a few very nicely set up stations. One HF rig. A nice coaxial switch, so that he can connect the antenna to either the rig, or his MFJ-259B antenna analyzer. So, he can tune the tuner with the MFJ (thus creating zero QRM while tuning), then switch the antenna back to the rig. He does a great job tuning that antenna, and has made one QSO this year, with a neighbor, to make sure the rig works. Sometimes, he'll use the rig to check into an emergency preparedness net, but in a real emergency, his lack of operating experience will render him useless. This guy buys his gear new, and never sells it - but never uses it either.
Most trading is to and from the guys in section 2.
One of the more frequent posters on this website is N8FVJ. He claims to have had over 100 HF rigs in his lifetime. He also confesses to being on the road so much that he never gets on the air.
My shack? One HF rig. Scratched up pretty badly. One old tuner, with a broken dial cord, but I can tune the knobs where they need to go just fine. The keyer paddle is always covered with dust, except for where my hands touch it. The speed knob on the electronic keyer has all the serrations worn smooth. The VFO knob on both the receiver and transmitter have lots of fingernail scratches in them. One of the meter dial lights is burned out in the transmitter but I can't stand the idea of being off the air so I don't fix it. The rigs are over 30 years old and I see no need to "upgrade", as they work just fine....!
AM
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'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by W1BAK on February 20, 2005
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If you really want to know about someone who is selling on Ebay...don't bother with thier feedback. Email the last three or four buyers for thier opinions. They may have either failed to give out any feedback or any neg feedback for fear of retaliation. This "retaliation feedback" kills the usefullness of the feedback system. It's better to get an opinion from the former buyer. And....Getting more than one opinion...you can pretty much get a good picture of the seller. You can even tell a "sour grapes" buyer. They will ramble on and on worse than me....
:>P
73, Gordon
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by AD5TD on January 4, 2006
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"by WB6MYL on January 12, 2003 One of the reasons for E-bays success is the "feedback" category"
What a joke that is! Most people on ebay are afraid to REALLY give the RIGHT feedback for fear of what the other will leave for them. Sure, it's an INDICATION of what this person MIGHT be like to deal with, but I know I have left better feedback than I should have because THEY had yet to leave it for me.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by AD5TD on January 4, 2006
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"by WB6MYL on January 12, 2003 One of the reasons for E-bays success is the "feedback" category"
What a joke that is! Most people on ebay are afraid to REALLY give the RIGHT feedback for fear of what the other will leave for them. Sure, it's an INDICATION of what this person MIGHT be like to deal with, but I know I have left better feedback than I should have because THEY had yet to leave it for me.
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RE: 'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
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by AD5TD on January 4, 2006
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"N0TONE on June 3, 2003
One of the meter dial lights is burned out in the transmitter but I can't stand the idea of being off the air so I don't fix it."
How did you find the time to write this? Hi Hi :-)
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