Who Is Doing This?
Raymond M. Perkins, Jr. (W5VPU)
on
February 11, 2003
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I happened to be up very early the morning of January 9 taking care of a sick XYL. When I couldn't get back to sleep, I decided to pass the time by scanning various bands. To my utter surprise I began to hear almost perfect CW at about 12-13 WPM on 10.126, so I tried the old "see if you can copy this in your head" trick. It seemed to make no sense, so I got out pencil and began to copy. To my utter surprise there was almost perfect code in random five letter groups. This went on from about 3:20 AM (CST) to 3:30 AM. Then off about four minutes. Then on again for about ten minutes. Then off. Then back for a shorter time. There was no ID nor call letters given. Occasionally there was a series of several "AR" or "BT" or a string of "v." All in very strong signals, very rigid character, extremely easy to copy, but at the same time puzzling.
Who is doing this? Surely no ham would just blatantly do this with no ID? Or would they?
Or have I stumbled onto some non-ham services which also use these frequencies? Was this some clandestine communique in some strange code? Does anyone on this forum know?
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by AB7RG on January 30, 2003
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My guess is that you stumbled upon someone who was practicing their CW sending ability. It certainly wasn’t W1AW as they do not transmit code practice on 30-meters.
Whoever it was may have either thought that the band was dead, or more likely they thought they were transmitting into a dummy-load but were still hooked up to an antenna, or they had a coax switch that was letting some RF get to their antenna (unless they were a close neighbor ham, then you could here them on a dummy load quite easily.) Remember, many ops have successfully used light bulbs to have QSOs for hundreds of miles or more with just a few watts!
I really doubt that any type of clandestine communication would be using five-letter groups and pro-signs, especially IN an Amateur Radio band. It is a good idea in these times however to keep an ear out for any unusual communications, in or out of the ham bands.
73 Clinton AB7RG
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Good question!
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by WR8Y on January 30, 2003
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Good! I'm not the only one hearing this.
I don't think that was a ham .... I spend a lot of time as an SWL (after 26 years as a ham, don't have a lot to say anymore...). Anyway, I have heard the same stuff around 7420-7460 (don't remember exactly, but it was just above the SW station on 7415 in the USA with all the amusing hate-speech! Or was it 7320-60, just above the station on 7315?)
Iv also heard odd nonsense in CW, with a pattern - that is to say it repeats about 50 characters over and over, just above 30 meters (I believe it was 10.160 or 10.180 )
From now on, I'll make a log of what I'm hearing (like a normal SWL would, I guess...)
73,
Mark
WR8Y
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RE: Good question!
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by KC0JBJ on February 6, 2003
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I have heard it said that these 5-letter groups are coded messages, likely used by security agencies or intelligence services of many different countries.
So why would a modern spy-shop with all its computers and electronic gizmos resort to such an archaic mode to send messages? I can think of many advantages.
Firstly, it is not so much an advantage to the HQ but to its field agents. Ham gear is easily obtainable and ham operators are quite common, especially in the third world where the digital infrastructure is sorely lacking or even non-existant. It would be easy for a field agent to claim to be an innocent and legally licensed ham operator, which he might very well be.
Also, SW Receivers are quite common in the third-world, and field operatives could easily receive instructions in this manner, with no fear of being discovered. Also, as we all know, QRP transmitters are of very simple design, are very tiny and easily hidden, and can be worked almost silently. My guess is that a QRP transmitter could be hidden VERY easily inside a larger portable SW receiver with no one being the wiser. Front panel buttons and switches could even double as crude straight keys or keyer paddles. Look how manufacturers like ICOM have even designed their radios so that the up/down buttons on the microphone can double as keyer paddles!
Lastly, some clandestine operations, e.g. terrorist groups, don't have the budgets that allow spending lots of money on high-tech communications. Most of their funding goes for weapons, recruitment, training, and pay-offs (bribery). Their most advanced technology is probably the satellite phone, like the one Osama Bin Laden used until he was ready to make his escape, which he then gave to his bodyguard to fool the U.S. (who was tracking his signals)into thinking he had hunkered down. Likely, he continued to send messages to his troops through some other lower technology devices that the U.S. wasn't tracking, like short-range walkie-talkies or possibly even coded messages from a portable CW transmitter?
What I would like to know is where were these signals coming from? I have heard reports like this many times over many years so it is NOT likely to be just someone practicing his code and accidentally getting on the air! I will bet that if the signal originated in the U.S., someone from Homeland Security was tracking and triangulating the position with other directional receivers around the country!
Watch out, Osama! We ARE listening now!
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Who Is Doing This?
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by WR9A on February 11, 2003
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It's really not THAT big of a mystery! These so-called "numbers" stations have been around for decades. For more information check out:
http://www.cvni.net/radio/nsnl/index0.shtml
and
http://www.wunclub.com/
Such "numbers" stations can be found throughout the shortwave spectrum, transmitting CW, voice, and other modes.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by K9DI on February 11, 2003
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Hi,
Think a minute, 30M is a SHARED band with Hams being secondary. It is entirely possible that the stn you heard was some other service. I was probably not a ham.
73
de
Wayne K9DI
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KC4EOE on February 11, 2003
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C'mon you guys....That's Will Smith and the guys sending CW to all the troops around the world letting them know how to beat the Aliens. Since the Aliens are monitoring our satellites for information and are using them against us, we have to rely on good old CW (thought to be extinct) to communicate with each other. Go figure.... And you thought only us "old guys" used code.
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KD7KOY on February 11, 2003
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I've heard the signals on SWL and in the ham bands..
Some are quit strong..others weak..
Who knows who they are..
Maybe they are sending nonsense..maybe just to keep someone listening.."spoofing".
Maybe they are sending to see if they can be heard by another station for practice...
No one knows for sure..
Sometimes you hear them on phone..a womens voice..I understand there are also British and French speaking numbers stations..male and female.
Some of the "voices" have become "radio stars" to some SWL'ers. Some people just listening for one particular person.
The "numbers" stations have been a mystery for a long time..
Finding them is exciting to some people.
You can find alot of sites devoted to numbers stations on the net.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by JJ1BDX on February 11, 2003
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It sounds like the station on 30m can be heard even on the other side of the Pacific as well as from here in Osaka, Japan. I won't guess who the originators are - well said by other comments.
73 de JJ1BDX/3 Kenji 'Joe' Rikitake
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by K4NR on February 11, 2003
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Clint,
30 meters is a shared band. Most likely military or an intelligence operation. I listened to one on 10119...someone posted it was a station on the Ivory Coast. Huge signal in West Texas.
73 de Tom, K4NR
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KB1FLR on February 11, 2003
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Some of the new rigs like Yaesu's FT-897 have a CW training feature that sends random characters in, you guessed it, 5 character groups. I don't know if the radio can accidentally be set to transmit while in this mode. I would tend to doubt it, but perhaps some firmware bug slipped through QA. Pehaps someone with this rig can try this into a dummy load.
As others, have pointed out 30M is shared, so perhaps it is code practice for a service that does not require ID's.
Best Regards,
Rick, KB1FLR
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KA5G on February 11, 2003
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The next time you hear it...tape it and send it to your local FBI office. They probably have some neat computers that could determine if it is nonsense or not.
In this day an age who knows. You might be the person who provided an insight to some seriously dangerous people.
73's
WJM
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KE4MOB on February 11, 2003
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I'm kind of surprised that you are shocked about a CW numbers station being on 10.126. Tune up the band about 4 Kcs to 10.130...there's a whopping (from the East Coast of the US at least) RTTY station there sending encrypted signals 24/7. Just because it is in the "ham bands" don't necessarily mean it's a ham.
Steve, KE4MOB
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by W3EOA on February 11, 2003
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Greetings,
What you are hearing is a Cuban Numbers Station, ENIGMA code of M8a. It is on at various times and various frequencies as are a vast number of other Numbers Stations from various sources.
Check out: http//mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks
for information.
There are many sources of information for these stations. Do a Google search and have fun.
Herb, W3EOA
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KL7PB on February 11, 2003
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This has been going on since the cold war days and maybe before I don't recall. Best info is no one knows who why or what. "Monitoring Times" can give you the best info having answered questions about it several times through the years.
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SPY NUMBERS STATION!
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by WD8MGO on February 11, 2003
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Not your local ham! Simply a Numbers Station.
I belong to an e-list group which tracks and databases the frequencies and text.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by G3SEA on February 11, 2003
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This signal has been heard frequently in Hawaii and I have heard it several times.If you can copy / tape it then send it to Riley Hollingsworth at the FCC: rholling@fcc.gov
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Who Is Doing This?
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by K0RGR on February 11, 2003
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During the cold war, hams on the West Coast were often priveleged to hear high speed CW groups emanating from various fishing trawlers - usually anchored offshore within eavesdropping distance of the coast...
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Who Is Doing This?
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by WD6EJN on February 11, 2003
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Yes! when I was fortunate to have an antenna (indoor or out)I used to hear numbers being anounced serially
by a spanish speaking woman, I never found out what
it was.
I mused that it might be illegal aliens coming into
or going back to their country.
But he said five LETTER groups so this would not be it.
It's probably just another commercial enterprise taking over another ham band.
Where is Russel Crowe when you need him!
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Who Is Doing This?
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by WD6EJN on February 11, 2003
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. "Occasionally there was a series of several "AR" or "BT" or a string of "v"....
Doesn't this make it a ham rig?
Or do they use these procedure signs elsewhere?
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Or maybe it was & is...
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by W3DCG on February 11, 2003
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A secret coordination signal the bad guys are using to coordinate their __________.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by W7WV on February 11, 2003
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It almost sounds like someone is broadcasting the G4FON CW learning program from a computer.
Just so happens this is the way they taught CW to the Army in the 1960's.
I was an operator and an instructor at that time. 5 letter random groups!! And it was sent at the speed you were learning, not using the Farsworth method of 15-18 WPM rate.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KG4ICG on February 11, 2003
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Hey Gents,
Everyone keeps forgetting that 30 meter band is a shared band. 5 letter group words are code of some type. Remember, we share 10.1 to 10.15 with other users, it is not strictly amateur use, that's why we are limited to 200 watts, or did someone forget?
Ron Collins KG4ICG
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Who Is Doing This?
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on February 11, 2003
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Here is the inside scoop—straight from the hidden pages in USA Today.
It is the people we share 30 meters with. They are so impressed with Ham contest activity on 20 and 40 meters, that they have started their own type of contest. They took pity on all of the hams who never get to enjoy contesting on 30 meters.
And, they have seen that there isn’t a contest-bash thread running on eHam yet. So they thought they’d have their trial contest run now.
Plus, it gives all of the NO-CODE!ers, something to complain about, people using a CW ONLY band.
Shhhhhhhh.
: ))
If you hear the “Russian Woodpecker”, then we have something to worry about.
Have FUN
Bob
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KE2IV on February 11, 2003
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Wotta thread.
All because some guy forgot that 30M is a shared band (hams secondary) and has never heard of numbers or utility stations. Geez.
The best is the "homeland security" fellow who thinks we're on to Osama's secret code!
Most hams have been living in the dark ages of technology for so long they think everyone else is still building fox hole receivers out of pencils and razor blades!
Given the fact that the CIA has only a handful of Arabic speaking agents (and can't seem to find anymore even when the advertise in such well known newsmagazines as The Economist - a well-regarded British publication for you who don't know) Osama doesn't need any secret codes. He just has to speak in the homeboy language on his cellphone!
And to think this came from listening to 30M. Imagine is he'd swung the dial to outside of the ham bands!
Whew!
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Who Is Doing This?
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by K3NG on February 11, 2003
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IVEBE ENSEND INGTH OSECOD ESFOR SEVER ALYEA RSNOW VVVSO RRYIF IQRMED ANYON EHIHI VVV73 ESGUD DXVVV DEK3N GVVVV PSSEE UON30 MVVVV
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by WO5I on February 11, 2003
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These types of communications are used by various intelligence services to pass instructions to field agents. The number groups correspond to information on a one-time pad, which is essentially unbreakable code. It's been going on for years, and sometimes it happens in voice (SSB or AM) in the SW bands, and in various different languages. I personally have heard Spanish, French, English, and some Asian languages that I didn't recognize by sound.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by WA2JJH on February 11, 2003
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wish I had an answer for you. In the early 1970's my friend would pick up CW like what your heard. It would just send out J F J F 24/7. Maybe it was a beacon.
National geographic radio tags certain animals and sites.
These days who knows. Some people say that paranoia is just knowing all the facts. Many spook/merc types might give you some ambigouse answer.
73 MIKE
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KG4OGN on February 12, 2003
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Looks like it is time to re-open the X-FILES!... Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters! HIHI.
Alexander KG4OGN 73!
I hear CW
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KG6CKI on February 12, 2003
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I have a question, It seems with all the web sites devoted to these "numbers stations" It looks like theres a lot of folks interested or even obsessed with them but I can't find any reports of anyone tracking one down. How hard would it be for several guys with beams around the country to triangulate a position on one and then contact a fox hunters group from that area to go check it out?
73 AE6CP
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KD7KOY on February 12, 2003
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KG4OGN...
"Looks like it is time to re-open the X-FILES!... Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters! HIHI."
"The Truth Is Out There."...lol
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by AC5ZC on February 12, 2003
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This was the way we were practicing code in the Finnish army some 30 years ago. We encrypted the messages and sent them in five letter groups, usually about 13 - 15 WPM. We used some standard prosigns like "AR" and "VA" (or "SK" as it is called in the US). We also transmitted sometimes in plain language and used standard "Q" signals. We tried to stay out of ham bands though, but some of the bands were shared.
73 de AC5ZC
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KB0LUR on February 12, 2003
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The numbers broadcasts that I've heard on 30M sound like they're in AM mode. The Morse code is as you say but I believe there is a digital information being sent "in the background" simultaneously. I haven't tried analyzing the recording I made.
I also contacted the FBI through their website but they never asked for a copy.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by 5R8GQ on February 13, 2003
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I listen to these messages contantly. I have asked
the government to stop the alien voices in my head,
and I received an e-mail from the State Department
to listen to CW on this frequency while
sitting in a bathtub filled with skim milk
and single malt scotch.
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by AB2OL on February 13, 2003
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Skip the skim milk, I'll take the single malt!
Does the government pay you, or cover the cost of materials? Where do I apply?
73,
Pat AB2OL
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Who Is Doing This?
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by UF0OL on February 13, 2003
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You filthy Yankee scum dogs! You think you know everything! You do not!
73 and abashdiana Uncle JOEY UF0Ol
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Who Is Doing This?
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by VE3MFN on February 16, 2003
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This particular transmission is heard quite frequently and is discussed and tracked on at least one "spy numbers" reflector (Spooks). You may rest assured that the "code breakers" with their megabuck equipment also enjoy listening in.....I spend a lot of time on 30m CW and that small band is a hotbed of strange sigs other than ham digital or CW transmissions.
--... ...--
Richard VE3MFN.
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KI8JD on February 17, 2003
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I have heard those same transmissions many times at about that frequency. Five letter groups, and if I remember correctly, no vowels. I am sure that it is machine sent, as it is perfect code, with perfect spacing. Very strong here in Grand Rapids, Mi. I have heard others comment on this, and it always sounds like the guy is right next door. They must run big power. They will send a string a few times, and then send another string a few times. My guess is that it is an encoded message, not practice. Practice would include numbers and vowels. But it is fun to copy, and wonder about. 73 Jim
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Who Is Doing This?
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by K4CIA on February 20, 2003
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I just wish they would clean up their signal. Key Clicks out the WAZOO!
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KA4KOE on February 22, 2003
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Massive alien invasion is imminent. Those five letter groups are telling the saucers where our strategic and tactical forces are, and also where to unload legions of bug eyed, death ray toting, butt ugly aliens in YOUR BACK YARD.
I think the signals originate near M42, in the constellation Orion, and are time modulated.
Time to break out the phasers, boys and girls. Set power at "melt".
P
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Who Is Doing This?
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by K0AZ on February 24, 2003
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Good Grief! We used to call them Groups of 5.
They were used for CW practice but more importantly
they were common output from many crypto devices to
be able to put on the air or wire in non secure
circuits. Been used for many decades and still in
use today. CW practice for military or government
ops included groups of 5 as it was a common method
of message transmission for "coded" traffic. Low, medium or high frequencies will have these "mystery" signals for years to come probably and from many
sources but mostly government and military from who
knows what countries.
Ham CW practice included groups of 5 to help break
the anticipation habit of trying to guess the next
character. It was a helper in increasing speed and
getting one into copying behind and increasing speed.
Groups of 5 are always copied all uppercase.
Whoever says all Caps is shouting has absolutely no
knowledge of the original internet. ALL devices used
communications keyboards and they were ALL uppercase.
ABCDE FGHIJ KLMNO 12345 67PQR is what a typical
group will actually look like when copied at the
receiving station.
73/ZUT de K0AZ
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Who Is Doing This?
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by W9SZ on March 4, 2003
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To sort of start a "thread within a thread" does anyone know what happened to the Russian "V V V V" beacon on 7002? Is it gone for good?
Likewise, there were similar beacons around 7038-7039 kHz from Russia. Are they also gone? I haven't heard any of these for a couple years now.
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Numbers stations
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by WB1W on March 25, 2003
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These are often heard sending transmissions in voice too, reading off numbers in sets. Check out www.spynumbers.com for more info and a searchable database of freqs.
Also, the NPR web site has archived stories about numbers stations.
For a simple transmission, some of them can sound pretty spooky :)
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Who Is Doing This?
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by KY6R on April 10, 2003
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You only have to worry if you hear CW groups of 5 when your radio is not turned on . . . .
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RE: Who Is Doing This?
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by KX8N on June 18, 2006
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"For a simple transmission, some of them can sound pretty spooky :)"
Yeah, it's a matter of fear of the unknown. I've heard them on voice several times through the years. Code practice is a good hypothesis until you figure the voice transmissions in - that's no CW practice.
Number stations are kind of fun, though. I mean, during the cold war we could attribute them to the Russians. But they are still there. Hmmm...
If we actually knew what they were, they wouldn't be nearly exciting, I'm sure.
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