I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
Meadeball (K4CMD)
on
March 9, 2003
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Like several thousand other hams from the Mid-Atlantic area, I had a wonderful time at the annual Richmond Frostfest this past Sunday in Richmond, Virginia.
The air of the show was tainted, however, by the vacant area of floor space that historically has been occupied by Ham Radio Outlet (and EGE before the Woodbridge, VA store was bought by HRO). The dealer has been a Frostfest mainstay for most of the 25 years since the hamfest came about. But this year HRO -- whose Woodbridge store is less than a two-hour drive straight down I-95 -- did not attend.
I heard they said it was because of overtime pay and HRO's desire to concentrate on Internet sales.
HRO had been the largest dealer -- in fact the only full-line dealer -- to attend the Frostfest in the past. This year, anyone who came to the Frostfest looking to purchase a new HF or VHF radio, antenna or accessory was out of luck.
The organizers of the hamfest placed a table in the vacant corner of the building where HRO's booth normally stands, covered with a white tablecloth so disappointed hams could write messages to the company. And write they did, leaving messages about rigs they came to the Frostfest to purchase, HRO's apparent attitude toward the ham community, and their intentions to shop elsewhere in the future. Apparently this tablecloth was going to be sent to HRO.
I for one, question HRO's dedication to the ham community. I have been an active ham for 19 years, and I have purchased half a dozen new HF rigs and at least as many mobile radios, HTs and accessories from that store. I, like many hams in the Richmond area, prefer to drive the 100 miles up to HRO -- usually several times a year -- and usually make a day trip out of it with another ham or two along for the ride.
The Richmond ham community has shown its dedication to its only "local" ham radio store. I think it is sad that HRO has decided to pull the plug on reciprocating this long-term gesture of goodwill and turn its back on the very customers who keep the company in business. Hamfests, in my opinion and I hope yours too, are one of the enjoyable parts of the hobby that encourage and strengthen the friendships created on the air and give all the opportunity for fellowship.
I know times are tough economically. I know the Internet has great commercial potential. But there's something to be said for customer loyalty and the international fellowship of ham radio. What do you think? Is this a sign of the times?
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by RAD1OMAN on March 9, 2003
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The Hamvention has been shrinking over the years too, it ought to be interesting to see just how many empty tables will be set up this year.
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I have to agree!
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by WD8MGO on March 9, 2003
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I agree with RADIOMAN that all hamfests appear to be shrinking. Hamvention should now be called "Hamfest".
Findlay is the oldest in the state of Ohio and appears to be stronger in the long run. To bad Dayton and Great for Findlay!
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RE: I have to agree!
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by VA3BRR on March 9, 2003
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Findlay has always been my favorite swap but I wouldn't miss Dayton. But back on topic, much to my surprise, a new swap is starting around my area. Hopefully there will be a good turn out and it will continue to thrive after that for many more years to come. I love going to swaps even just to walk around and not make any purchases. We really have created our own monster though. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing. When you want something you don't always want to wait a month or two till the next swap to get it. The internet makes it possible to not have to wait. The important part about a swap to me isn't really that there are top of the line dealers but the comraderie there. (mind you I do hate the junk sellers, I didn't go to a ham swap to buy a new leather purse)
Brian VA3BRR
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by K0PP on March 9, 2003
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Interesting to note that someone hasn't recognized the probable "real" reason ... "It's the economy, stupid", or something to that effect. (:-)) HRO's accountants most likely don't want to continue pouring money down the proverbial rat-hole. Going to a hamfest usually only "pays" due to the write-offs ... not the sales.
And, it's not likely to get any better soon. Well, maybe after the next election. (:-))))
73! K0PP
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by KG4OOA on March 9, 2003
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There's empty tables at hamfests. Who's fault is that but the hams. They are the buyers and set the standard for sellers. Since the internet is soooo cool and we want it right now the companies selling the product have happily adjusted to what the buyer wants.
Why do I say happily? Because it costs less for internet sales than having stores or going out (to hamfests) looking for customers. There is no travel expense, commissions paid, meal and entertainment expense (only 50% of which is deductable for tax expense), show fees, booth construction costs, etc. Oh yes, let's not forget the cost from loss/theft of inventory when traveling. I'm not saying that hams are stealing but these things happen when traveling and working shows.
Businesses do have a certain amount of loyality. To the extent that the keep these items in inventory is their loyality. The only reason anyone would start a business is to make as much profit as possible. The decisions such as these are merely the result of the buying habits of the customers.
In short, to change the habits of these firms, the habits of the cistomers must change.
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by WA4MJF on March 9, 2003
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I guess if Woodbridge is the local ham
store for Richomnd that means that
Radio Supply Company (later called AVEC)
on Forad street by the the TV tower is
gone.
I remember when I was little ham buying my ham stuff
there with my earnin's from carryin' the
Times-Dispatch.
I bought my first real ham receiver there,
a Hammarlund HQ-110AC to replace my SWL
Hallicrafers S-107.
I hear now that there is a monument to
a 1LT among the Generals and Admiral
on Monument Avenue now, too. Heck don't
even have to have Flag Rank for it now!
73 de Ronnie
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by W9TM on March 9, 2003
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If HRO could make money by attending the hamfest, I'm sure they would. Should they attend anyway, out of loyalty, even if they lose money? Probably not. Hams are notoriously frugal and most likely to buy their next radio from the dealer with the lowest price without consideration to the dealer who attended the hamfest. That's why there are so few retail outlets for ham gear. Hams want a full service store to look and touch the latest goodies but reserve buying to the cheapest internet provider. This is becoming common in many areas of retail.
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by AD5GX on March 9, 2003
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The internet has changed the way many things take place. I use the internet exclusively to make ham radio purchases. Between ebay, online swapmeets, and online dealers, I can find what I want, when I want it.
The past 3 ham fests I have been to yielded no purchases. The reason being there wasn't anything I wanted, or what I wanted wasn't at the right price.
Plus from my point of view, 80% of what was offered was junk I had no use for.
Perhaps an different approach may work such as a themed hamfest. For example and APRS hamfest would have several different setups for hands-on viewing. Then, the items going into those set-ups would be readily for sale so the average ham could immediately duplicate at home.
Or a satellite fest, or a digital mode fest, or...the possibilities are too numerous to mention!
I personally have no use for the current sales part of hamfests (I go for the social aspect). The internet has completely replaced hamfests for my current purchasing needs.
What I lack is practical knowledge of how to get into some of the other ham radio avenues. (There are many good articles, but hands-on a working set-up would be much more helpful and then having a "knowledgable salesperson" tell me what I need given my current set-up to get on the new mode would be awesome!
73!
Matt
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by KA5N on March 9, 2003
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Swapfests have always been my favorite outings. You
get to see those rigs that you longed to have in the
50's and 60's without having to buy them! I have
noticed a general change toward high priced rigs and
piles of junk dominating the offerings. the most
annoying thing is the tables with arts/crafts, jewelery
etc. or anything not ham-oriented. The best are
the retailers selling ARRL and other books etc. for
a discount and without having to pay shipping costs.
Used to be able to buy a whole semester's books for
$40, now it is rare to find a single book for that
price. I am just hoping that hamfests and swapfests
last at least as long as I do.
Allen KA5n
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by N7BUI on March 9, 2003
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Having just returned from another great "Mic and Key" ARC hamfest in Puyallup, WA (Nice job guys!), you can still see the excitement that the swapmeets bring. I did see several excellent displays from major vendors, and lots of smaller dealers who use the fests as second incomes.
A couple of different hamfest were attempted here in the Eugene, OR area and failed (poor turn-out, other cancled). The Roseburg hamclub used to have an excellent fest, but they too havn't had a fest for several years. The Rickreal hamfest (Salem) held twice a year by two different clubs has had excellent results by both clubs. ]
Whats the difference between a successful fest (money maker for the club and fun for all attending..) and a poor fest?........ADVERTISING!!!!.............
You don't get any people to attend if you don't promote your event. And that means WAY beyond your local area. Use the internet as a tool instead of an enemy that is out to destroy your hobby. I can't count the number of times I heard of a fest AFTER it was held!!!!! Use the Usenet on rec.radio.swap, Eham, QTH.com, QRZ.com, etc, etc, etc. to promote your club events.
There is a fleet of hamfest junkies who commute via their motorhomes and pickup campers with huge funny looking antennas to each weekend fest. Most of these guys work during the week and use the fest as a family get away. Now do they want to spend that Saturday at the beach or drooling over some new toy at YOUR club's fest?
George
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by NK2U on March 9, 2003
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Hamfests and swap and shop nets are obsolete with the internet! Why shlep down to a hamfest to look at stuff that don't interest you?
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by N2BR on March 9, 2003
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I think alot of the problem with HamFest is the price to get in and price to setup,Most hamfest price there self out in the cost.Ourlocal club put on a local hamfest each year with FREE Admission and we dont charge to setup inside or outside and get a good bunch that show up.
Upper Cumberland Amateur Radio Asc UCARA
SilverPoint,Tennessee HamFest & TailGate Party
June 21,2003 at the SilverPoint Community Center
Just off I-40 Exit 273 13 Miles West of Cookeville,Tn
VE Testing,Weather Spotter Class,Dealers,OutSide BoneYard,Conession,FREE ADMISSION
Door open 8:00 AM CST Talk-in 147.135 +600
Everyone Welcome See Old Friends Meet New Freiend
Bring your GEAR to Swap Sale Trade
For More Infomation Email
Jack KG4MFJ kg4mfj@charter.net
Bob N2BR n2br@arrl.net
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It is a trend...
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by KD7KGX on March 9, 2003
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With the shrinking margins in retail, plus the fact that customers aren't loyal but buy for the lowest price, what you're looking at IS a trend that portends the end of the smaller retail businesses in America.
Electronics, and any manufactured goods, are hard to make money on. Margins are generally around 10%, so unless a business can turn that inventory quickly it can't make money. We had a local ham radio store shut down here in Seattle because while they would match the price of some of the online vendors, they couldn't match the selection... and then there's the sales tax issue.
Hams are also their own worst enemy. Every ham who visits a local dealer to play with an item, and then who orders it online, is responsible for the dearth of local ham radio stores. This trend is reflected in other areas of retail, also.
Look at the "Wal-Mart" trend. Small towns with prospering small businesses have a Wal-Mart plopped down. The small businesses lose sales to the 'Mart, because they can't buy at the same price Wal-Mart does, and so Wal-Mart makes more profit at the same prices. The small businesses lay off their decently-paid employees, and close. These employees then get minimum wage jobs at Wal-Mart. Pretty soon you have a town that has lost a lot of well-paying jobs.
I, for one, have always tried to patronize local businesses that I liked even if it cost me a little more. I wanted the convenience of being able to see an item, and the customer service that a local shop can provide. I make a habit of always buying something when I visit a retail business that I like. If everyone who went to a small local ham radio shop walked out with some solder, a component or two, or a book with each visit then these shops would stay around.
Instead, we have turned into a society where we say we want customer service and a good inventory... and then drive 50 miles to save a couple of bucks on the price of an item.
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by KG4MCC on March 9, 2003
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First, I would like to say that hamfests don't have to be obsolete. They may have to 'diversify' a little is all. Some hamfests have allowed computer dealers into their shows, but is there more room for diversity? Perhaps there are other shows that we can participate with.
There many 'hobbies' or interests that Hams participate in, that could be welcomed into the hamfest environment. I personally would be interested in computers, photography, astronomy, home improvement, automotive, and just about any kind of consumer electronic vendor.
For that matter, other 'shows' may welcome our participation. That would give amateur radio good exposure. There are Home Shows, Boat Shows, etc. all over the place.
I live in Southwest Virginia, and there is a gunshow that occurs yearly in Hillsville. What is important about this gunshow is that it has evolved far beyond simply trading guns.
Thousands of people flock from all over the U.S. and Canada to Hillsville, but most of the people are not there to trade guns.
The show has grown to include a mixture of both old 'flea market' type vendors and also 'new' product vendors. The products available are guns, furniture, clothes, collectibles (cards, books), and much more.
I am amazed that there are no Hams trading at Hillsville and other similar shows, when I am positive that there are Hams in attendance. This at a time that so many of the small hamfests have been discontinued.
So, to wrap things up.
The larger hamfests should consider actively recruiting vendors of products that Hams would find interesting.
Small hamfests that have, or are considering, shutting down should look for other successful shows to participate in (even non-amateur shows).
Just my opinion.
God Bless America/Pray for our troops!
73's
Dave - KG4MCC
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by KZ9G on March 9, 2003
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Yes, the internet has contributed to the smaller hamfests with fewer vendors and a lesser amount of quality gear for sale. I imagine that the present economy has exacerbated this situation, too.
Let's hope the U.S. can move beyond our present international situations, and get our economy back on track. If this happens, many of us will have more time for our hobbies - and hamfests! 73.
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by N3JIY on March 9, 2003
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Hamfest?
Wait until summer for a hamfest!!! Or at least until May, when it's warm enough to walk around outdoors..
Alan
N3JIY
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by KG4PZZ on March 9, 2003
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I was under the impression that Frostfest's lack of HRO was due to Orlando's "big" hamfest being the same weekend. I'm not too sure about that, that's only what I heard. I thought Frostfest was well attended (I know I could barely walk around...), and not dieing by any means. It's a shame that SB-101 I bought didn't work, though.
Oh well, there's always next time, right?
Fred
KG4PZZ
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by KZ9G on March 9, 2003
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I should have said, "Let's hope the U.S. can move beyond its present international situations, and get our economy back on track." But, they are "ours" to deal with...
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by AA4PB on March 9, 2003
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HRO and other dealers have been cutting back on hamfest attendance for a number of years. It cost them plenty of dollars to ship all the gear and pay employees to set it up, attempt to sell it, and then pack most of it back up and ship it back to the store. Then we expect them to offer hamfest special discounts so they don't make as much money as they would if they just sold it in the store.
The bottom line is you can usually buy it on the Internet for less, avoid paying state taxes, and very often get free shipping to boot.
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by K9PO on March 9, 2003
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Part of the allure of hamfests for me is the social aspect. While I do tend to be one of the instant gratification crowd who buys most of their stuff off of the internet, I still go to the hamfest. I catch up with old friends, make new ones, and I also work at the AMSAT booth answering quetions about satellites. I also get to ask questions of others to learn new things about the hobby.
I enjoy buying some of the smaller items that I want like some short runs (50 feet) of coax, trinkets such as slugs for bird wattmeters, some tools, antennas, etc. I like seeing some of the old junk too. I it is neat to see some of the old radios still working and talk about their operations with people who actually use them.
I hope hamfests do not die as they are an important part of the hobby for me.
73
Scott
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by K9PO on March 9, 2003
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Part of the allure of hamfests for me is the social aspect. While I do tend to be one of the instant gratification crowd who buys most of their stuff off of the internet, I still go to the hamfest. I catch up with old friends, make new ones, and I also work at the AMSAT booth answering quetions about satellites. I also get to ask questions of others to learn new things about the hobby.
I enjoy buying some of the smaller items that I want like some short runs (50 feet) of coax, trinkets such as slugs for bird wattmeters, some tools, antennas, etc. I like seeing some of the old junk too. I it is neat to see some of the old radios still working and talk about their operations with people who actually use them.
I hope hamfests do not die as they are an important part of the hobby for me.
73
Scott
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by K0HZI on March 9, 2003
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Hamfest MN, less than years past in attendance in 2002. In 2003 will be held in a smaller venue at Wilkins Arena, much smaller than the River Center Touchstone Arena, same building, smaller space. Absent were the major ham manufacturers, Icom, Kenwood and Yeasu. TenTec and MFJ had tables with MFJ by far the largest display in the arena. The two people at that display looked kind of bored as there was not very many hams looking and buying. Look at the hams or people who attened, mostly middle age and gay hairs, not many young people. The younger generation are content with the Internet, IM and cell phone IM, who needs radio? How do we get them interested in becoming hams?
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by NJ6F on March 9, 2003
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Yes this is a trend. Meeting people can be done better at local club meetings.
!!!>>>>If the hams were smart....they would think outside the box and plan a Dayton type hamvention during Octoberfest time. A little beer would loosen up some of the tightwads out there and the quiet ones would mellow out and become more sociable. Yes there has been a major change in swapmeets... I too miss the old 98% ham content swapmeets but the times are changing...
Yes hams are tight and will check out a rig and then buy it over the internet much cheaper after price shopping. Why not.
Why would anyone sell at a local swapmeet when they can get more on the internet...maybe this is a good trend ...we save them from themselves.
The only ones that complain are the older hams that basically don't know how to answer an email let along have any internet capability.
This reminds me of the drugstores being set up in my area to purchase Canadian / US drugs because the seniors need to deal with a person across from a counter. Things are changing... I go to meet the hams at a breakfest but to look at the crap on the tables...forget it....send me a JPG.
Yes I miss the old days but computers changed everything. If you are not computer savvy, then buy a windows laptop and jump in.... this will allow you to communicate with your kids...and your grandchildren on a weekly basis and even send pictures back and forth...
If you are fighting the urge to (( adapt )) then you do not have the Ham Spirit.
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by KB2SSA on March 9, 2003
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The tech sector of the economy historically employs alot of hams. With the crash of it, hams become out of work and money is tight. This is why hamfests have been dragging for the last few years. It will come back around soon.
I also think with the proliferation of sites like ebay, qrz, and eHam, the hamfest seems to be obsolete. It seems that the days are gone when hams would save up those radios they would like to sell to bring to their favoroite hamfest. This lowers the number of sellers and increases the number of browsers and we all know that browsers don't make you any money. Hmafests dont recoup the investment from attendance, they do it with sellers, and sellers only come if people are willing to buy.
So far I have seen slim pickings at hamfests. It is more like bring your junk box day.
Just my 2 cents.
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by N6AJR on March 9, 2003
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I have been to several hamfest's recently and I found 3 good reasons for not attending.
Reason #1 is that I didn't go there to buy computer products, computers, computer board or computer cables. The ones around here with the exception of one small local one are primarialy computer fest with some ham gear thrown in hear and there. I want ham stuff not computer stuff.
Reason#2 is that they are always at oh-dark thiry in the early morning. I have worked swing shift for 20 years and I get up at noon. By noon most are closed and gone.
Reason #3 is that I have a handicap and can't walk long distances and the folks who set these ham fest up need to put in frequent areas to sit down for us old farts. No consideration is given for folks with problems..
I buy lots of stuff from our local store (oakland HRO) and use to go to the "other" store in sacramento but he closed, and his prices were 10 to 20 % higher all the time so I quit going there. I also note that our oakland store donates stuff for our club's christmas party every year and when our members go into the store they usually say thanks for same.
Now I must say I am amazed that no one has said the reason they aren't there is because of no code techs(who probably buy more stuff than older hams any how) and because of the decline of hams in general and CW op's in particular. That is said tounge in cheek....:) so support your your local store and let them know you missed then at the ham fest.. then they will know.. 73 tom N6AJR
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by KC8CON on March 9, 2003
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I feel that this is the trend of things to come for all hamfests. Our local club, which I am the President, has put on a hamfest for 25 years. Until last year we had two dealers at our hamfest. They were not big dealers like AES or HRO, but they were the small dealer. Rays Amateur Electronics and Williams Amateur Electronics were our two dealers for a long time. Both of these dealers went out of business. Then we had VA Ham and IRI Amateur Electronics and now VA Ham has shut down and retired. IRI had to close down his store due to health reasons.
We have desperately searched, sent letters, emailed and made phone calls trying to get at least one small dealer. We have offered incentives for the dealer, but still no one would answer our letters or email. We know that AES, HRO, R and L and other bigger dealers will not attend a small size show. They want to attend shows were 1500 to 2500 or more come. Our hamfest generally has around 200 to 300 who attend. At one time, about the high point of the no-code technician license era, we had about 600. We have our hamfest in February and we are the very first hamfest in West Virginia. Our small numbers are due to the past two years of not being able to list a dealer in our hamfest advertisements.
One problem we see is that the small dealers are dying out due to the larger dealers, who can have more stock and offer some better deals. Then, there is the Internet. Todays ham is a computer and Internet ham. They shop for rigs from the major dealers on the Internet or go to eBay and bid on ham gear. EBay is another subject all together, but that I feel has hurt hamfests and the hobby also.
I like to attend hamfests, especially like the first two hamfests of the year in our state. I like to visit with the guys I have talk to all winter and haven't seen since the last hamfest in August. The other reason I go is to see what everyone is selling and also to get some new connectors, cable, wire, etc. But, if there is no dealer there offering these items then I am forced to shop via catalog or Internet. Catalogs are starting to become something of the past. Most of the times you have to go to the Internet and order a catalog online if you want one in the shack.
I believe a hamfest is part of our heritage and that we as hams (old and new) need to support our local hamfests or they will disappear and the only ones we will have are the Shelby, Dayton and Charlotte hamfests to attend. I for one am not willing to drive 200, 300 or 400 miles to attend a hamfest.
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by KC8CON on March 9, 2003
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I feel that this is the trend of things to come for all hamfests. Our local club, which I am the President, has put on a hamfest for 25 years. Until last year we had two dealers at our hamfest. They were not big dealers like AES or HRO, but they were the small dealer. Rays Amateur Electronics and Williams Amateur Electronics were our two dealers for a long time. Both of these dealers went out of business. Then we had VA Ham and IRI Amateur Electronics and now VA Ham has shut down and retired. IRI had to close down his store due to health reasons.
We have desperately searched, sent letters, emailed and made phone calls trying to get at least one small dealer. We have offered incentives for the dealer, but still no one would answer our letters or email. We know that AES, HRO, R and L and other bigger dealers will not attend a small size show. They want to attend shows were 1500 to 2500 or more come. Our hamfest generally has around 200 to 300 who attend. At one time, about the high point of the no-code technician license era, we had about 600. We have our hamfest in February and we are the very first hamfest in West Virginia. Our small numbers are due to the past two years of not being able to list a dealer in our hamfest advertisements.
One problem we see is that the small dealers are dying out due to the larger dealers, who can have more stock and offer some better deals. Then, there is the Internet. Todays ham is a computer and Internet ham. They shop for rigs from the major dealers on the Internet or go to eBay and bid on ham gear. EBay is another subject all together, but that I feel has hurt hamfests and the hobby also.
I like to attend hamfests, especially like the first two hamfests of the year in our state. I like to visit with the guys I have talk to all winter and haven't seen since the last hamfest in August. The other reason I go is to see what everyone is selling and also to get some new connectors, cable, wire, etc. But, if there is no dealer there offering these items then I am forced to shop via catalog or Internet. Catalogs are starting to become something of the past. Most of the times you have to go to the Internet and order a catalog online if you want one in the shack.
I believe a hamfest is part of our heritage and that we as hams (old and new) need to support our local hamfests or they will disappear and the only ones we will have are the Shelby, Dayton and Charlotte hamfests to attend. I for one am not willing to drive 200, 300 or 400 miles to attend a hamfest.
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by K0RGR on March 9, 2003
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Even though we had good attendance, the Rochester, MN hamfest went away a few years ago, because it became a money-loser for the club. The cost of the facilites went up, and the commercial dealers refused to come and rent space, so it became a casualty.
We have a swapfest now, at a big restaurant that makes the space available. We don't charge much ($2)for admission and attendance is very good. Good food is readily available. There is even some real, desirable radio gear that shows up for sale, along with some decent computer stuff.
I think that the focus of hamfests, or at least the major conventions, needs to change. I think the newcomers among us are just dying to see and learn about other aspects of ham radio. Maybe we need more 'how to' programs on APRS, digital modes for both HF and VHF, Echolink, digital voice, 802.11b for hams, and probably several programs on satellites. It would be best if you can find a location where you can actually demo these modes.
The idea would be to make the presentations the focus of the hamfest - the flea market would become less central.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by KG4RQP on March 9, 2003
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The Orlando Ham-Cation had great attendence! The OARC (Orlando Amateur Radio Club) said that they believe that, unofficially, they think that they exceeded last 2002's 16% growth at this years' 2003 Ham-Cation. Go to http://oarc.org/Newsletter.html
HRO wasn't in attendance that I could see. AES, MFJ, Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom, GAP, TEN TEC, and many others that I must beg forgiveness for not remembering made the event really great.
IMHO, the growth of the hobby is directly related to the amount of time that we spend promoting Amateur Radio and how positive we keep our attitudes.
73's to all,
KG4RQP
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by KB0NLY on March 10, 2003
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I haven't attended a hamfest since 1995 or 1996, mostly due to hearing about how little was offered on the tables. I plan on attending one this year just for the fun of seeing everybody that i chat to on a daily basis in person again. It will be interesting to see what shows up on the tables but i'm not going just to look for things to buy. I agree with the internet taking its toll, i buy exclusively from Eham and QTH.com and ARRL.org radio classifieds when looking for used gear. And when it comes to selling i use the same sources, but if i cant get it sold for a honest price then i put it on Ebay and watch the bidding war take off. I like to stress the fact that i try to sell it person to person on classifieds first before putting on Ebay, but many times over i have got the price i wanted and more on Ebay, and i think that is part of why you see so many hams selling on Ebay. Its the size of the potential audience of possible buyers that makes Ebay the place to get your money back from a rig you decide to sell. Say what you will about Ebay and other online ads, but if you do your shopping with skill you wont get burned. There is however a few out there selling items that are not as listed, but that's why you have to take your time and be careful.
The local hamfest, and i only have two within a decent driving distance, was well attended last year. Or so i was told, so hopefully everyone that i want to see will be there this year, and if i see some useful stuff for the junk box then maybe i wil spend a few dollars just to say i bought something.
73,
Scott, KB0NLY
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by K9KJM on March 10, 2003
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Unfortunatly, The slow death of hamfests is a fact
of life, Due to a number of reasons, Including
the internet sales by dealers, Online swapfest
boards like eHam, QTH.com QRZ.com, etc, The slow
economy, The fact that ham radio is not attracting
enough new young hams etc etc.
The sad part is that many hams continue to
resist any change in the license requirements
to allow bright newcomers in to the hobby.
The bottom line is that ham radio needs to grow
in numbers a LOT to still be around at all in a few years.
Squabbling over code vs no code, Is Echolink real
ham radio, AM vs SSB, Closed repeaters etc etc is
kind of like passengers and crew of the Titanic
rearranging the deck chairs......... Forget the
small stuff, ELMER a new ham today! Talk the hobby
UP, Instead of slamming the mode/operator/net/or
whatever is the most recent little problem.
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by WA4PTZ on March 10, 2003
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I'm afraid that it all the facts point in that
direction. I too have witnessed the shrinking
of Hamfests everywhere. The Dayton Hamvention
has become a casualty of the local governments
greed. Every year they come up with another
carpet-bagger tax or raise fees and rates.
Yes, the support of the "NEW" equipment dealers
is vital to hamfests but they are responding to
simple economics. Internet/mail order sales has
very few hastles and complications. Yes, and
overtime. I believe their actions are short
sighted, but that seems to be the trend.
"Carpe diem" . They act as if there is no tomorrow.
Perhaps they are correct. But in order to get their
attention your only recourse is to boycott them.
In the Amateur Radio community this never works.
So,To you I must say....fire up your 'puter and
do your hamfesting "online" . You can't beat the
system and you can't beat "GREED" . You may as
well learn to make it work for you.
73 - Tim
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by KG4RUL on March 10, 2003
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Having just come home from the hamfest at Charlotte, NC, I think the genre is alive and well.
In the past twelve months I have also attended Hamfests at Shelby, NC, and Charleston and Sumter, SC.
The Charleston Hamfest has moved to a new and bigger site.
Shelby was well attended in spite of continuous rain.
In fact, plans are underway for a Fall event in the Charleston, SC area. This will be more of an Old Fashioned Tail Gating party.
As far as HRO, I saw them at both Charlotte and Shelby.
Dennis - KG4RUL
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by K1VVC on March 10, 2003
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If the Richmond Hamfest wasn't the same weekend as the Orlando Hamfest many more dealers would have been there. If you were a dealer where would you go? A 3 day event in warm Orlando or 1 day in the snow. Richmond needs to get the date changed to the way it used to be.
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by N4VNV on March 10, 2003
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"HAMFESTS" are on the decline in quality and attendance due to several reasons. The reasons I see, being a ham of 30 years are;
(1)Too many hamfests less than one hundred miles of each other. If you have one thousand dollars a year to spend, and you divide it by more hamfests, each get less of the money. (2)Entrance fees and table rentals have tripled in price. That's 300%, is it greed or overhead? (3)People want good food and decent motel rates. Is that being provided? (4)Ladies "Bingo" got my Wife interested (non-ham). That's another attendee to buy a ticket, food, handcrafts, etc.. And we like to do things together. (married 39 years)(5) Is there a place for us old folks to sit and swap stories,(and buy coffee, pastries, sausage biscuits & eggs, etc..) And finally (6) the biggie. Has anyone tried to get "all" the sales "tax exempt" at your hamfest?? The States do it to get new business all the time. Why not your once a year large hamfest? I saved $122.00 on my last large purchase. (you know where) I'm on a fixed income, so that meant a lot to me. Oh yes, number (7) the other biggie, clean restrooms that still have toilet paper when the "fest" is half over. If you want a successful hamfest, this is what it takes. No one said it was easy! My favorite hamfests for the last ten years?? Cave City, Kentucky and Bedford, Indiana.
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by N4GI on March 10, 2003
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Two words:
EEEE BAAYYY
Why walk around with a bunch of goofy looking old guys all day when you can click away from the comfort of your own home?
Blake N4GI
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by W9SZ on March 10, 2003
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I've been going to hamfests for 35 years. They used to be huge and contained all sorts of goodies that made a young teenager's eyes pop out (and wish he had a bigger wallet). But more recently, especially over the last 5 years or so, they have been shrinking.
The Peoria Superfest, which has always been one of the largest in the central Illinois area, was like a graveyard in 2001. It was just a couple weeks after September 11, so I thought it may have been due to the shock of that event. But last year it was about the same. Many of the other hamfests I have looked forward to over the years were pretty small last year, too.
Weather has a lot to do with it. It did happen to rain on quite a few of those hamfests. Just a bad year for that to happen? I don't know.
I've heard it said that internet sales is killing the hamfest. If so, it's a sad thing to me. I've always looked at hamfests as a lot more than flea markets. It's always been an opportunity for me to run into and chat with old friends, people I talk to on the air but don't get to eyeball QSO very often. That's something the internet will NEVER replace. So I hope some of us will remain interested enough to keep them going.
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by WA9BXE on March 10, 2003
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I would imagine web pages like eHam.net, and others, as well as the email lists have had a significant effect. You don't have to wait for the annual hamfest to find a peice of gear you've been searching for.
A person can look at their convenience. Middle of the day, night or even at work (if they have access to a computer).
And, you don't have to walk around with a sign telling everyone you have a piece of gear to buy, sell or trade.
The passing of hamfests will be a sad day but ham radio will survive.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...Don't blame HRO
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by K1MKF on March 10, 2003
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I usually attend one or two Hamfests a year. But, I usually spend more to get in than I do buying stuff. The only new rig I've bought in several years was my 2m FM mobile and that was because they were soooo cheap. All my other rigs have been bought used off the internet. Why? There are so many Hams that sell barely used rigs I will probably never buy a new full featured rig again.
But please don't blame HRO. As I understand it they have been at your Hamfest for several years. Are you going to reward that past involvement by buying your next rig from a dealer that was never there? Instead, buy that rig from HRO over the phone or via the internet and let them know that you would have bought it at last months Hamfest and saved them the shipping cost if they had been there.
The truth is that Hamfests are really becoming a place to buy boat anchors, broken rigs, slow computers, strange connectors and all those things you could make yourself but are willing to pay a few extra bucks for from the guy who has a basement business.
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by JA2WWE on March 10, 2003
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Here in Japan, Hamfest are boomeranging. All dealer show up, big sales, lot of Big bargain- Many show up- No not ham radio allowed- No computer, no chip dip, etc.....last show in Tokyo gave way 5 FT1000D- 23,000 go show-
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by NE1RD on March 10, 2003
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Ham fests are smaller
ebay, war, and lack of jobs
may have sapped our will
HRO hero
attended many before
now shamed by absence?
Ungrateful public
demands losses from dealers
or not a "good deal"
Hiku has captured
all that needs to be spoken
elegant crisp sound!
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by K3ZD on March 10, 2003
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I'm convinced that eBay is a big factor in the decline of the hamfest and I'm part of the problem.
I would never sell anything at a hamfest anymore. You can sell stuff on eBay for almost what you PAID for it new. Also, unless you have priced the item way too high, everthing sells on eBay. How many times have you left a hamfest with stuff that didn't sell because it was not cheaper than dirt? So I'm part of the problem and don't plan to do anything about it.
Things change.
Having said that, the Timonium, Md hamfest is coming up at the end of March and last year it was HUGE!
73, Mark.
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by KB5IAV on March 10, 2003
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I have been attending hamfests since I was licensed a little over a decade ago, and have seen a sharp decline during the last several years. There were once a couple of large hamfests around here, but those have shrunk in the last few years.
A few years ago, I went to a local hamfest with other hams and we were all ready to buy some items, namely a battery for an HT, a repeater directory, and a dual band mobile antenna. All three of us struck out that Saturday as nobody had any of those small, common items. What I ended up doing was ordering a battery online the next day from AES.
Although the internet is nice, there are some items I'd rather take a look at first before buying. I have bought items at hamfests after being able to look at them first, but these days, the items just aren't there so I have no choice but to go internet.
As for used stuff, most of what I saw at the last hamfest I attended in January was more old 486 and slower computers and computer parts, home audio equipment, and just general junk that is normally seen at garage sales. There was very little used ham gear to be found.
The only reasons I see for going to hamfests these days is for meeting other hams and VE testing. With attendance down, not many hams to meet and since I just passed my Extra class exam, I probably won't need to take any more tests, I hope.
I do believe hamfests can survive, but they must change with the world around them.
My 2 cents.
Jonathan, KB5IAV
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Junk Fests would be more correct,
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by NK7J on March 10, 2003
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The last three hamfests I went to were nothing but junk. Even guys who like old equipment thought it was junk. Lets see now, spend a day or weekend looking at old junk and meeting maybe one or two people OR spend some quality time with my famliy and go camping or something. Hard choice, yeah right. More and more many of us have less free time on our hands (isnt technology wonderful) so we prefer not to go do stuff without our families.
The last thing the XYL wants to do (she is a ham too) is go to a junk fest and listen to nonsense all day and be bored to death. I dont blame her a bit. So I buy and sell all my stuff online. Is that killing hamfests, you bet! But that is the sign of the times, it just works better for many of us who would rather do other things than go to these junk fests and not find a darned thing we needed.
Its kinda sad to seem them go away but the realistic side of me sez "nothing lost there".
Just MHO.
Jack NK7J
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RE: Junk Fests would be more correct,
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by NK7J on March 10, 2003
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OOPS Supose to read, we PREFER to spend time with our families!!!
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by N2GBT on March 10, 2003
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The markup on Amateur Radio Equipment is MAYBE 12%
And... thats gross-- before expenses.
Still think one or two salesmen/women with a properly arranged display should be able to make it worth while at a hamfest. Then again, 12 per cent.... maybe not
Joe N2GBT
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by K4JBM on March 10, 2003
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Last year we (Orlando HamCation)had a 16% increase in attendance and although we did not equal that this year we did again have an increase of around 4% over last year.
We also had a good increase in new commercial vendors who have heard via other vendors that our show is a good place to SELL. Bringing the people in is all well and good but if they do not buy then no one wins.
We also try to have some new feature every year that will be of interest to the attendees. One year it was a "Bring and Buy" area where the club would sell your equipment for you and take a cut of the selling price. This allowed attendees to enjoy the show and not have to buy a table or space and sit and sell their own stuff. The first year (2002) we sold $4,000 worth of attendee gear. This year we sold $11,000 worh of gear. The attendees just love this feature.
We also have AMSAT bring in their trailer for hands on live demos and this also is well attended. Every year it is a challenge to find the right mix and we start right after the event ends.
As one of the chairs for last years event and the 2004 event I would be happy to answer any questions about how we set things up (k4jbm@cycat.com)
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by KE2IV on March 10, 2003
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A lot depends on what one expects from hamfests.
The original commentator lamented the absence of a major dealer in new gear. Others seem to prefer to see old friends and old gear. I guess I'm in the latter camp, myself.
Oh, the new stuff at Dayton etc. is interesting (and takes on many of the elements of a trade show) but it is the flea market that fascinates me (when it isn't raining like it always seems to be, that is!).
Last year, together with a ham buddy, we did the whole thing. Rented a space, dragged out our old stuff from our homes on east coast etc. We had a ball (and sold most of the stuff too!).
Once when we were wandering the flea market area I told him that hams should be paid by their local communities. He asked why. I pointed out all the otherwise toxic junk that hams thoughtfully hold onto rather then sending it to local landfills!
So that what we ham's should get. Local "junk repository" subsidies that we can then spend at hamfests buying, whatelse(?) - MORE JUNK!
73,
George
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by VE6XX on March 11, 2003
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Greetings All: I think everything has been said that needs to be said. The only constant is change, & I expect hamfests have to change to keep interest up. I suspect that the changes may have a geographic dependency. What works in one area may not be successful elsewhere.
I agree strongly with those who complain that computer equipment & JUNK comprises the majority of the flea market area.
I have NEVER attended a hamfest where there was decent
food to be had on the premises.
The comments regarding the Neanderthal-like restroom facilities is mainly correct. I am sure the ladies especially, must be thrilled to death upon encountering a washroom that is filthy, ancient, reeks, & affords little privacy.
Public address systems usually are so bad in the quality of their sound that they could be sold to a federal airport! Too loud(painful) Too low in level. Distorted beyond recognition( sounds like a Sansrit bingo!)
Lack of qualified speakers, or folk who can adequately
present a piece of technology, an idea, or narrate a slide show etc.
Finally, there is the "Banquet". I have paid good money & have attended banquets that ranged from the superb to the ghastly. Mostly ghastly. Speakers have run the gamut from Winston Churchill quality to an Adolph Hitler sound-alike!
The size of the "fest" seems to make little difference. The good ones are good year after year.
The bad ones are usually egregiously bad!
I predict the fests with the good managers & support crews will survive & prosper, & the others will join Fatty Arbuckle & the nickel beer.
CHEERS! Brian, VE6XX
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by WN3VAW on March 11, 2003
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There are many reasons why dealers stop going to certain hamfests. One that I haven't seen mentioned is this:
State sales tax.
You see, many states require a business to collect sales tax on all purchases (even over the Internet or telephone) made to addresses within that state, if they have a "business presence" in that state -- ie a physical store, for example. (And yes I know there's alot more to it, laws are different everywhere, and YMMV -- but let's not quibble over details)
Used to be an occasional (2 -4 times a year) Sunday set up at a hamfest in the state did NOT count as a business presence, for sales tax purposes. Now, in some cases, even one hamfest trip counts.
Now: Are YOU, the business owner, going to go to the annual Frostbite Falls hamfest at Wassamatta U this year, if you have been informed that you will be required (backdated to the first of the year)to collect 6% state sales tax on ALL purchases shipped into the State of Moosylvania for the calendar year? And what if the State Revenue folks decide to collect for years past, too? And what if the revenue folks in Mooslvania have a quiet word with their neighboring folks in Pottsylvania and make a suggestion... think it can't happen?
Unless you see a uniform state sales tax, or a legal & enforeceable way to collect state & local sales taxes on Internet and 1-800 purchases (none of which I do NOT condone, by the way!) you will see this little sword hanging over every dealer's head too.
73, ron wn3vaw
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by WB0IQT on March 12, 2003
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I hope the Hamfests aren't croaking either. However I certainly attend less that I used to, with the primary reason being the increased cost of a ticket. There are times when a $8 ticket costs more than what I spend on purchases. Other times the ticket cost is just a small part of what I spend. If there are other inducements such as well presented technical seminars then I have no problem with the ticket cost. The chance to win a new rig, is not an inducement to me. The secondary reason that I have cut back on my attendance is several times I have stood at the door, waiting to get onto the sales floor only to see those Hams who were setting up their tables were already scooping up the bargains from their fellow sellers, while I was blocked out from entering. Some even buy a table, stick a empty box on it and swoop down on the other sellers, again before the honest buyers can get through the door. Lastly, there is just too much old obsolete computer junk at these shows. IF the computer stuff must be there, keep it in a seperate section, away from the Ham gear.
I also recently spoke to a commercial exibitor and they agreed with me that their enty cost to exibit is too high and they are cutting back on shows. BTW they mentinoned that my area, Minneapolis, is one of the most expensive areas.
73 de Bob
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by KE4OC on March 12, 2003
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The last Hamfest I went to, altho had some ham gear, No dealers and more Bird Houses than HF rigs, and a super jewerly store. The way its going you see more radio gear at a flea market and admission is free!
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by WU3U on March 12, 2003
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Frankly, I have never really liked "hamfests" in general.
Having to drive somewhere in the wee hours of the morning (WHY are hamfests always EARLY morning affairs with everyone rushing to get done and back home when NOON rolls around...the place clears out like it's on fire!), sometimes over a long distance, finding the hamfest site, then parking, paying admission, and then sometimes finding a small swap and shop contingent....well, this is not my idea of fun.
In most cases, use of the word "Hamfest" is a misnomer.
For the most part, "hamfests" are swap n' shops only.
To me, a "hamfest" would include something more than
a swap n' shop.
Some old timers have told me that years ago, hamfests offered a lot more than just a radio flea market.
Often, there were activities like: a CW speed contest
(who can send the fastest consistent with good, intelligible CW on a straight key), Ham Radio trivia
contest, wire untangling contests, and similar things that lent to a fun family atmosphere.
There were also talks and presentations about some Ham Radio related topic.
In easy words, there was some reason to go to a hamfest other than just wanting to buy something....they were a way of getting together with fellow hams and perhaps meeting those you had QSOed with on the air in person.
But today, if you are looking to buy something specific, the Internet is THE way to do it. EBay currently lists some 15 thousand Ham Radio items for sale and that is just ONE website.
I think that if Hamfests are to survive, they must offer something more than a swap and shop, as the Internet offers so much more in that regard from the comfort of your own home with literally thousands of things to choose from.
Just my thoughts....
Tim
N8LXR
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by N2YTF on March 13, 2003
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Just to let the folks out there know, dayton hamfest prices beat internet prices by a huge margin....so large that it can pay for your travel costs.
Last hamvention (Dayton 2002) I picked up a new ft-817 from AES on the last day in the last few hours for $500 bucks even....I had them mail it to me (free shipping) and avoided having to pay any taxes. The best internet prices at that time were more then $200 higher. Now, almost a year later the best internet prices for the 817 are almost 100$ more....still cant touch the dayton price even a year later.
I also picked up a vx5r for the yl for 229$,which was about $100 cheaper than the best internet prices at that time, and is still competitive with internet prices now.
I think this is the result of manfacturers putting up large coupons in the last hours of hamvention for some reason.
If you needed another reason to go to hamvention...there it is.
73s and see you at hamvention!
Tom, N2YTF
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by KN4AQ on March 13, 2003
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It isn't the economy. At least not entirely. Hamfest attendence has been falling since the mid 90's, in the middle of a huge economic boom. The reasons are probably complex. Internet buying, plenty of other things to do, declining interest and activity among hams.
I talked to the HRO store manager for an article in an upcoming Repeater Journal. He pinned most of the reason on the difficulty he has getting good staff. They work hard at a hamfest, and he didn't want to batter the staff he has that way. They would make money, but not enough to be worth the extra effort. The "I'll buy it at the absolute lowest price, who cares about service" attitude seems to be taking a toll.
The Orlando hamfest had nothing to with HRO's decision, but it did take away a few other dealers who have been there in the past. (Richmond changed dates in 2002, and are now on the same date as Orlando.) One of them is Communications Headquarters, from Wilmington, NC. They would have gladly come to Richmond, but they can't pass up the opportunity of Orlando. They do better there, even competing against a half-dozen other dealers. They MIGHT do as well as the ONLY dealer at Richmond, but Orlando is a "known quantity."
What would spur hamfest growth? There have been a few good ideas in this thread, but nobody really knows. CQ editor Rich Moseson W2VU suggested "hand-on," operational equipment demonstrations as one way. The Icom "FunMobile" of a few years ago suggests that hams respond well to that. It's a lot of work to do it well. My local hamfest committee lacked enthusiasm for the idea. If anybody tries it and succeeds, it will be copied.
73,
Gary KN4AQ
Editor
SERA Repeater Journal
kn4aq@sera.org
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To Bad for HRO ....NOT
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by N7NHS on March 13, 2003
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THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERV. They are one of the two leading dealers that would rather get into a price battle with the small guy and loose money and try to put the little shop out of business then work together and service the community. This is good for us as shoppers but you know what???? If they have what we want WE WILL PAY THE PRICE. Look at suggested retail price compared to what you pay. WE ARE CHEAP. I think if the prices come up a little they would sell the same amount and have a little better profit for hamfest attendance. I can’t buy from these people any more because all you are to them is a number and are usually treated very rude. Just like your car dealership or homebuilder YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO GO WHERE YOUR BUSINESS IS APPRECIATED......Try giving the small shop owner some business and see how you are treated. MUCH MUCH BETTER..... GO AHEAD AND TRY IT I DARE YOU
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Hamvention had it's glory in the past!
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by WD8MGO on March 13, 2003
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It would be nice to see "hamfest" or hamvention have tickets for one day users. The Flea Market is the best place at hamvention and the most fun. It is funny to see the isles empty when it rains. Just makes it easier to shop for the bargains.
I have to agree about other hamfests. They either have extremely poor PA systems or the weather kills it(
rain). Many don't PR enough in advance such as on Eham. PR PR PR....
And it would be nice to see Talk-ins on UHF. I like how Ft. Wayne uses two meters, 220 and UHF.
Lastly it is nice to see my friends at these fests and meet new ones. I tend to avoid the boring discussions from the ARRL types or Public Service Geeks.
I hope hamfesting doesn't die off. In Southern Ohio we have Trader's World, Caesar's Creek and Turtle Creek as alternatives.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by KE2IV on March 14, 2003
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I particularly agree with the fellow ham who cited the early hours as a deterrent to attending. My own repeater group has just scheduled a hamfest to start at 8AM and end 1PM on a Sunday!
Now, I am not a church-goer myself (but I'm also someone who believes that Sunday should be a day of rest for whatever reason!), so I am appalled by this.
What do you do*? If you're not there by 8AM then whatever is worth buying is gone! The darned thing is 50 miles from home. Guess I could try for 9AM and hope that I beat the religious folk (except that some folks worship on Friday or Saturday - including earlybird Catholics) but that means getting up at 7AM!
And, what do I tell the XYL who likes to do "things" with me on Sunday AM? Sorry, dear I have a headache (er...hamfest)?
So what's with the early hour stuff anyway? It's not like hamfest are farmer's markets and the stuff is going to turn bad by 1PM. Or is it? :-)
* Oh, and think if you're a seller! 6 AM - as we say in NY - fuggedaboutit!
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by W5VPU on March 15, 2003
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I read this thread quickly, and thus may have missed something. But has anyone commented on the total number of hamfests nationwide in 2002 as compared with the total number of hamfests twenty to thirty years ago?
Seems to this OT'er a heap of new hamfests have sprouted in the past ten to fifteen years. Dayton was almost the Biggie decades ago. Then other distant area hams said, "Let's have our own hamfest right here." And they did. You know, the old, "If we build it, they will come" syndrome. And for a while folks have come.
Sometimes a great idea runs its course. Maybe regional hamfests have oversaturated the market. Perhaps we need to encourage leaders of the regionals to allow their creativity to run rampant transform their mission.
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by K1OU on March 15, 2003
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Maybe it is because a lot of people who go to hamfests have not prior, or very limited knowledge of soap. Afterall, how inclined are you to buy something from somebody whose smell can knock a buzzard from a wagon a hundred feet away? At least the internet masks the smell.
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...trend verses - Frame of mind
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by KA9JSV on March 16, 2003
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I had seen the Waukesha, WI hamfest for the last time.
A congegration of bodies mulling about, that frown and turn from a seller after hearing an answer to their two word question (how much?)
Wow, the integrity of that conversation.
Imagine, if you will, going back say, about thirty years to the pre-PC era, where hybrid circuits and TTL was the talk of the town.
I will not discertate on nostalgics, however, but, comma - what drove amateurs into the conversation arena was about "advents" and "innovations".
Let these be your themes to work on amongst your local clubs (and that includes the young folks - all inclusive).
In the "purest enjoyment" of the hobby, I've always took the time to stop and listen to what a fellow ham does - both in the shack, and by trade.
That one probably flew right over your head...I'm speaking of the good company of some one to whom shares the same avocation - by what a person has achieved by learning - NOT what new rigs they own.
I'm refering to a genre almost simular to a "Norman Rockwell" appeal.
Yeah, that's it...
DE KA9JSV
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by W8OB on March 16, 2003
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That is exactly what I have been saying for years. What ever happened to amateur radio operators? Hams used to be some of the best dressed, clean cut, polite people in the world. Now go to a hamfest and see a bunch of greasy, huge pot bellied smelly people that tend to drive the others away. You know what really kills me at a large hamfest? It is the group of 6 or 12 dudes that for some reason just gotta group up and BS right in the middle of the walkways causing everybody else to back up like a 4th of July parade. I tell you if the soap factories set up a booth at a hamfest they would come out with the full stock of what they took in. Before I get slammed on this one let me say I understand some people are just naturally overweight and pretty much nothing can be done about it, but soap and a little haircut sure costs less than some of that junk at the fest.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by W8OB on March 16, 2003
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Now for a positive side of the hamfest. The last one I was at I was sitting down at a table drinking a cup of watered down coffee, and a elderly gentlemen sat down with me and we started talking about antenna's, we soon were joined by yet another gentlemen and had quite a eye to eye ragchew. Thats what ham radio used to be about, three strangers becoming friends over a common interest.
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by N4GI on March 17, 2003
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Someone asks,
<"So what's with the early hour stuff anyway? It's not like hamfest are farmer's markets and the stuff is going to turn bad by 1PM. Or is it? :-)">
It's because the attendees all wake up at 5am and eat dinner at 4pm. Not to mention the morning sun is too hot and rush hour traffic is bad..... (need more?)
Personally I don't mind sacrificing sleep to attend ham fests in the dark. Have you seen some of those guys...YIKES!
Blake N4GI
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by KG4CBJ on March 17, 2003
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Unfortunately, it is a trend.
As a salesperson attending trade shows over the past twenty years, I observed a trend in show attendence. The larger national shows became larger and the regional or State shows became smaller. Just like us Hams people came to see new equipment or instruments. I believe that some of the reasons that show attendence is down is because of the information age. In Ham radio it is different one likes to see, touch and smell the prized trinket that they have been looking for for ages. This aspect is unique to the flea market enviornment of a hamfest. Dealers are looking at return on investment; time, money and labor costs.
I will be shot at dawn as a heretic, yet I believe that hamfests need to consolidate. Clubs must bury their differences and ban together to have as large a fest as can be produced. The Orlando hamcation was certianly larger then it was when I went to take my license.
If you figure the margins in radio equipment for which everyone wants for the lowest possible price, which maybe 10-15% would you drag out hundreds of boxes and drive a hundred miles? Many look and see if they can purchase the same equipment on the internet for less with out paying state or local taxes. One dealer stated to me that he didn't go to the fest because he would have missed several sales he received just siting on stool in his shop.
The complexities of the overall trend are far beyoud the scope of what we discuss however, their are some fundamental principals which define the problem. One is definitely the ecomomics. We all want a better price, a bigger show, but at what cost ?
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RE: I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by W9WHE on March 18, 2003
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I hereby pronounce your local hamfest .......moribund. The larger "megafests" are shrinking. Why? Electronic commerce. Why wait for the fest when you can sell/buy EXACTLY what you want now?
Not everybody loves getting up at O-dark-thrity, driving an hour or two, and paying $12 bucks to sweat, freeze or get soaked, just to look at table after table of JUNK! And no, I don't mean "stuff"...I mean old, rusted, broken, frequently un-identifiable JUNK.
Think it's a short term trend? Think again.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by WA2JJH on March 18, 2003
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Have to agree with W9WHE. Law of diminishing returns.
Except for a TS-850 I got at the Timonium hamfest, all fest's have been a collection of computer crap,broken crap, and attitudes to match.
I do so much better at local flea markets, I can walk to. I have found mixed results with ebay.
Also who needs food that might make you sick. Portosans that are not clean. Waking up at 5 A.M.
No woman within a 100 mile radius.
I saw the computer stuff showing up at hamfest's as a sign of things to come.
I do have my memories. Used to make $4000 or more in a weekend. Practical jokes,and meeting hams from all over the USA.
Call it evolution.
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I Hope This Isn't a Trend...
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by N8VQJ on March 19, 2003
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One way that most ham stores, both local and ones at fests can do to improve things is to learn customer service. I bet you TOMORROW that I can walk into our local radio store and look around a bit, maybe finger some radios on the shelf and not even get a hey how are ya. Also....walk around your store....you need excersize and we aren't all going to come up to the counter and TELL you what we want! When I was at Hamvention last year I was standing there for 10 minutes waiting to by a small item off of HRO and in that time, there were others that came up to buy radios that got serviced before I did and I had already been standing there being ignored by the fat guy behind the counter. Look just cuz I don't want to buy a radio does not mean that I am not important! Remember that HRO! Msybe I may travel to Dayton to buy a radio from...Universal Radio. My HOME store. Maybe then the next time I come I can get a hi how are ya! Also, and this is to the customers.....please be patient and don't act like an ass when your outlaying your wad of bills to get your latest rig. Be a nice guy and I will likely talk to ya longer then a few seconds. Also, PLEASE, Flea market guys, bring stuff that isn't totally out and out junk. Make an attempt to protect your inventory when it rains. I am going to Dayton and I intend to buy a ht and all of the accessories....oh....BRING THE DAMN THINGS! I have ever had a ht with everything I would have liked to have. I want to have all the beslls and whistles. If I pick up the Yaesu I have been looking at, I WANT the Barometer board and all of the other things...programming cables, extra batteries, dry cell cases.....the works! Don't make me trek all over the show floor hunting the damn things down.
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