What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
Hal Williams (N6TZ)
on
March 10, 2003
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What happened to the 60 Meter proposal? The ARRL has been real quiet about this lately. Remember, the FCC had nearly given it to us when the N.T.I.A. threw the wrench in the works, but now it has been a couple of months and nobody is talking about it.
I sure wish some of the other countries would go ahead and open the band, or are they afraid Uncle Sam would shake his fist at them also and repeat the "Homeland defense" story again. Britain had licensed some experimental licenses and was ready also. Cuba would like it for a "tropical band", medium skip for hurricane disaster use.
It seems there is a lot of unused spectrum in those parts from what I hear, but maybe I am too simple and don't understand these things... hi!
Hal, N6TZ
n6tz@arrl.net
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KD3V on March 10, 2003
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Ask the FCC!
Here are the details of what caused the delay:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2002/09/05/101/
The ARRL can only report when the FCC gives them something to report!
Here is a recent event that shows why there is nothing to report:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/02/05/100/
The FCC has given little to report on other than providing this: "FCC and NTIA Sign New Memorandum of Understanding"
in short: "... NTIA believes the secondary amateur allocation would be "premature." But, he said that NTIA would work with the federal agencies, the FCC and the amateur community to determine whether "some future accommodation" for amateurs at 5 MHz would be possible. That could include limitations on power or emission types, a reduction in the size of the proposed band, the use of discrete frequencies or geographical restrictions, he suggested."
SO, there will be nothing to report until these two government agencies have had time to work through their respective interests. It is out of the ARRLs hands and there is nothing to report on!
You can keep up with a simple search or two!
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by W0JOG on March 10, 2003
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"The ARRL can only report when the FCC gives them something to report!"
And, alas, the ARRL continues to be reactive rather than proactive -- a decades-old failing. In order to be effective in legislation and innovation, you have to get out in front of things; know what is going on BEFORE it becomes public record. That is when and where things happen for those who have a track record for making thing happen.
Perhaps someday someone will start an new and effective amateur radio organization that innovates rather than runinates.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by W0JOG on March 10, 2003
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Two typos in the above that can't be corrected in this format. It should be "..make thing(s) happen." And "ruminates" rather than "runinates."
73 de Vern
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KE2IV on March 10, 2003
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Not sure why this one is evolving into an ARRL-bash.
Facts:
1) It was the League that obtained the experimental licenses to develop the data for the possible allocation.
2) It was under League's auspices that the propogation studies were conducted etc.
3) It was the League that then petitioned for the allocation and seemed to have secured it when NTIA stepped in.
Now if that isn't being pro-active, what is?
BTW: Are you a member of the League? If so, why not write to Haynie and Sumner and let them know of your concerns regarding their performance? It is a membership organization after all. Easy to bitch, burdensome to participate.
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by N7QF on March 10, 2003
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Pay attention to the ARRL email bulletins and
you'd know !
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by AG4RQ on March 10, 2003
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Ever since the news first broke about the proposed 60m band, I knew that it would either be some years down the road or not at all. If you expect anything different from the FCC, you're in for a big disappointment. The wheels of government grind very slowly.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KZ1X on March 10, 2003
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>> And, alas, the ARRL continues to be reactive rather than proactive -- a decades-old failing. <<
The ARRL is a group of elected people who work to make the hobby better for all of us ... not just the people who support it, but the armchair quarterbacks who do not.
Whether I agree with you or not is irrelevant. State what you've done to correct the "problem" you perceive.
Funny. The Internet's a great resource for finding out who's who. When I look up the calls of the complainers, I never see that they've run for their Division Director or vice-Director seats ... or even for Section Manager. In fact, I've never seen a complainer's call occupying even a volunteer field position.
I've held field appointments for the majority of my 24 years as a ham, and am a Life Member of the ARRL. If we get a 5.2 MHz band, it will be because of the quiet lobbying efforts of the ARRL's Washington staff. It makes sense to belong, support, and guide; it never makes sense to sit on the sidelines and squawk.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by AG4XH on March 10, 2003
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Did ARRL publish their studies? Where can I read their findings?
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by WA8VBX on March 10, 2003
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Well it does seem like this has turned into bashing the ARRL and bashing those that complain about them.
I am not a member, but I still complain about some of the things that I think they do wrong, but I also praise them for the Majority of good things they do.
I think it is wrong that you have to be a member to get a DXCC certificate, why not charge for those that aren't a fair price. I think that their new CD to get people into ham radio is great. So like everything else there is a upside and a downside. I don't think you have to be a member to give back to the community but doing public events, etc. anything that shows AMATEUR RADIO in a good light is outstanding, and because you are a member doesn't make you any better then those that aren't.
60 meters will come when the FCC is ready to give it to us..
Kurt
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KX8N on March 10, 2003
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The ARRL is not a department of the government, and as such they cannot create or change laws, grant use of or take away spectrum, or anything of the sort. As big as they are, and as old as they are, they are still a radio club.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KE2IV on March 10, 2003
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I would start on the ARRL website.
You could also go to the FCC's and look up the original and amended petitions which would include all the supporting data etc.
Did you think these things happen just because the FCC loves us? A lot of folks did a lot of hard work. And never received a dime in compensation - just bashing by the do-nothings and nay-sayers!
BTW: Perhaps NTIA listened to the sewer on 75M first, and then voiced their objection to a new allocation? Something to think about.
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KE2IV on March 10, 2003
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BTW: I did a bit of research. In the May 15 ARRL Letter* it was announced that the FCC was publishing the NPRM for a 60M allocation. At that time, the League suggested it might be a couple of YEARS before the allocation became real.
Subsequently the FCC, itself, indicated it was on a fast track and could happen by the beginning of 2003. Then during the summer, NTIA threw the wrench in the works.
So, despite all the bashing here, it was always the ARRL's cautionary advice to be patient. They have years of experience with the Rule Making process and know how long these things can take. THAT is the value of organized ham radio as represented by the ARRL.
* Available by e-mail to all members (and yes, only to members - so there!)
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by N8MN on March 10, 2003
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I don't understand how a forum topic/question always turns into a fight over nothing.All hams know the good and the bad that arrl has done for or to us.Why not join together to create a better hobby instead of acting like children fighting over who gets to swing first?I think we as a unit could get a lot more done.
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RE: WA8VBX
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by N0NB on March 11, 2003
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Call me stupid, or whatever, but I fail to see where the ARRL owes you access to one of its most prestigious operating awards. You complain that it's wrong that only ARRL members can apply for and expect to receive its DXCC award. You also claim the DXCC award should be available to you, a self determined non-member of ARRL, for a "fair price".
Well, sir, it's ARRL's award to present and I dare say that it is their perogrative to issue to whomever they deem qualified to receive it. If you don't think joining for a year and aplying for the award during that time is a "fair price", then I would suggest you find another award to chase, such as the World Radio 100 Nations, or any of the CQ Magazine awards.
If you don't want to be a member of ARRL, fine. Just accept the fact that some "perks" won't be available to you until you pay your dues. The ARRL is NOT a government agency, it's a membership organization and therefore doesn't owe non-members anything. That said, the ARRL does offer services to non-members, perhaps in the belief that it considers such services an inducement to join.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by W4PA on March 11, 2003
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KE2IV wrote:
>BTW: I did a bit of research. In the May 15 ARRL >Letter* it was announced that the FCC was publishing >the NPRM for a 60M allocation. At that time, the >League suggested it might be a couple of YEARS before >the allocation became real.
I think it's easy to forget that not everyone who's
active today was active when the WARC bands were allocated in 1979. After allocation, it took YEARS for the bands to be released by the FCC for amateur
radio use. The longest wait of the three was for
18 MHz, which was opened for use in *1989*, fully 10 years after it was allocated at WARC-79.
Even without NTIA getting involved, it was going to be
a long wait for 5 MHz.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by JN3XCV on March 11, 2003
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Spectrum and other parts of the regulatory environment take a long time to sort out. To get ready for WRC-2003 the delagates have been meeting and discussing issues for years. We (I use 'we' because I am one of the delgates from the US to WRC) are even working on agenda items for WRC-2006. I am lucky I supose to see the ARRL in action.
As for the ARRL not being proactive I dare say you are sorely missinformed. In my meeting this week one of the items that is on our agenda is a proposal from the ARRL to increase the power for 2.4GHz for amateur use and we are looking at their proposal to see the impacts of this has to the unlicensed services that already exist in that spectrum. BTW the ARRL proposal is not looked at favorably where I am now. But it is obvious that they have the backing to at least be heard by oters around the globe. They surely will have to be answered and are not a voice in the wind that will be ignored.
The ARRL is also active in the IARU which provides input to the ITU and they even are the support secratariet for the IARU. I fail to see what bashing them accomplishes when it is easier to change their view from within rather than crying on the internet about what they did to a non-member.
Just for the benfit of myself and other can anyone name an organization in the US the represents to the majority view of the licensed hams and looks out for their best interests and is able to influence both US and internation regulatory bodies?
The one 'bash' I will make about the ARRL is that they do a very poor job of promoting themsleves and the work they do for hams.
Scott
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by NA4IT on March 11, 2003
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One must remember...the wheels of government turn
sssslllloooowwwwllllyyyy at best!
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KE4MOB on March 11, 2003
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All this fuss over 150 kHz of spectrum! I get the impression hams think the 5 Mhz band is going to be a wonderful panacea with lots of room for voice, data, etc. Figure the bandplan will be 25 kHz CW/Data, 125 kHz voice. In the voice subband, that's about 40 voice QSO's. It will be a really good band as far a propagation is concerned, but that's a double edged sword...it's going to be lots of QRM, especially in the voice portion--usage like 75/80M, except with the propagation of 40M. Ugh!
And just wait until we have the first 5 Mhz contest!!
Steve, KE4MOB
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by JN3XCV on March 11, 2003
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"Figure the bandplan will be 25 kHz CW/Data, 125 kHz voice. In the voice subband, that's about 40 voice QSO's"
Or about 3 high fidelity audio SSB contacts! ;-)
just wanting to have one place for all of our arguments.
Scott
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by N3ZKP on March 11, 2003
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" Remember, the FCC had nearly given it to us when the N.T.I.A. threw the wrench in the works, "
Whoa! NTIA was simply doing its job - looking out for the best interests of its 'customers.'
Personally, I don't think the League (and Yes, I am a member) thought this one through. 5.200 to 5.350 is smack in the middle of some very busy government allocations. not the least of which are military allocations. As a user of several of these allocations, I am not the least bit interested in having to put up with someone calling CQ in the middle of one of my regularly scheduled military nets.
I can only support a 5-meg amateur allocation if the following conditions were met:
- Secondary allocation ONLY.
- NO CONTESTS
I would rather see NITA, the FCC and the League find four or five specific frequencies in the lower 5-meg range and set them aside for _specific_declared_emergencies. They would be authorised only on request, as are the present emergency frequency designations.
Lon - N3ZKP
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by KC2HCE on March 12, 2003
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Alaska uses 5.167 or something like that for emergency
traffic who knows I.d like them to straighten out forty
so the foreign broadcasts don't run us off at nite!!
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by W5VPU on March 12, 2003
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When I read this thread, and many like it, I am reminded of what seems to be the theme of our current population: "I've only got one nerve left, and you are standing on it."
We want what we want when we want it, and if we don't get it by the time we decide we "deserve" it, then we blow up, pitch a fit, and have a tantrum. I do not believe the original post was in anger. But some of the responses to that original question have evolved directly at the intersection of Anger Blvd. and Blame Avenue. Why?
It seems to me that it is "I want what I want when I want it and they better get for me before I get mad about their attitudes" with no understanding of how frequency allocation actually takes place. Have we forgotten we operate on our ham bands only because the regulating agency allows us that privilege? We do not own the bands we operate on, we are allowed to operate there. We are regulated. We own nothing more than the equipment we use to operate on the bands assigned us. Period.
We may never "get" (read that to say "be allowed to operate on") our desired but not yet assigned for operation 60 meter band. Or we may. Who knows? To paraphrse Yogi Berra, "It ain't assigned 'til its assigned."
There was a time that we "got" the 5 meter band. Only to later have it allocated to another service and we were allowed to operate on the 6 meter band. And my aging brain seems to remind me that during World War II all amateur radio operations, except the few MARS stations, were totally shut down. Do I remember correctly?
I suppose that some of us just will never "get it" that we operate in our assigned ham bands only because someone allows us so to do, not just because we demand it. Seems to me for all our tantrum-throwing, it would serve us right if we had all the bands except perhaps 100 HRz in the middle of the foreign broadcast portion of 40 meters taken away from us. I'd lose privileges on my favorites, but that's what my dad did to me when I pitched a tantrum at age 5 or 6.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by WA4MJF on March 12, 2003
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No, MARS did not come about until
the Defense Reorganization Act of 1947.
Prior to the war and for a time after the
war there was the AARS.
Durin' the war there was AERS that operated
on the 5 meter band that speak of.
73 de Ronnie
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by AB7R on March 12, 2003
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All those who have been branded as bashers of those who bash bashers should be bashed themselves and stop bashing those who have never bashed before.
Don't bash the messenger!
Greg
AB7R
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by W5VPU on March 13, 2003
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Thanks, Ronnie, for bringing my "litle grey cells" up to date. As I asked, "Do I remember this correctly?" I didn't.
73 Raymond
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by VK4DU on March 15, 2003
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Gentlemen,
The 5 MHz band is utilised heavily by commercial land mobile and point to point users in Australia and Pacific area.
Accordingly, the chances of an amateur allocation in this region are very low.
73
Glenn VK4DU
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by G0RTN on August 30, 2004
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UK amateurs could apply for notices of variation to their licences to conduct propagation experiments on a number of spot frequencies in the 5.2 MHz region - there was so much demand that the scheme had to be suspended and only those with existing NoVs can use it!
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by WA2JJH on September 25, 2004
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No big deal to me. My TS-850 needs a TCXO to be complient. My FT-100D with a TCXO is not compliant, does not meet strict spectral purity bandwidth spec.
My Mil spec Harris 3200 can do it. One problem, It has no power level or mic gain. So it outputs 150W.
The ALC is CPU adjusted.
I guess I could run lossy cable or use a 5db pad.
So thats out!
My harris 1446U, I knew would serve some purpose. some day. The TXCO is huge. Should met spec if I turn the power down to 50W and turn off the audio clipper.
Many Ham rigs will not make the BW or VFO stability spec.
Lets see a 1446 is $2500 used from war surplus. 1986 vintage! New for a mil. rig!
Try to see if you can get a TCXO for your rig. If it is more than 5 years old.......???????????
I think the 706 IIG mets spec after mod?
So what happened? NOTHING BUT BIG HYPE!.
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RE: What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by WA4MJF on September 25, 2004
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I ordered the EXPORT model of the SGC-2020
from the factory. It meets all NTIA
requirements. I use 60 Meters and usually
monitor Channel 4.
73 de Ronnie
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by M0AFJ on September 27, 2004
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G0RTN, Nov's are being issued now and have been for some months. There was a suspension but that has been lifted.
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What Happened to 60 Meters -- 5.2 MHz?
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by N0AH on April 30, 2005
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The reason that the people who complain about the ARRL don't want to be elected into it is because the ARRL talks out of two sides of it's mouth. Other than getting a decent VE program going, it is obvious that you are in the back pocket of anyone who pays you to advertise their product.
Baised towards this direction, and all about money, you have lost the heart of what the ARRL used to be about.
How's that MFJ pocket size code reader doing for you guys? Full page ad, screwing little Joey out of his pocket change. Nice touch-
60 meters needs your help- But your too preoccupied meeting your budgets to care.
Oh yeah, ever notice your high turnover of field elected folks? Hummmmm. That didn't happen 10 years ago when I was proud to be part of the ARRL.
Sorry to get fired up, but they brought it up here, so I'm just answering a question. I like 60 meters. I hope it is here to stay. The ops there are FB. No 160M territory issues. But as for the ARRL having much to do with it now, forget it- They remind me of Gilligan on Gilligan's Island.
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