Those Nasty DX Hunters...
Mark Flanagan (K1MKF)
on
March 15, 2003
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I am relatively new to this DX game. I've heard the "take no prisoners" attitude on the air during a DX pile up and was shocked at first. I've read many posts on this and on other groups calling for better behavior.
But, after a short time chasing DX I've started to develop the same attitude and I don't think it's entirely the DX hunters fault. Many times you hear a DX station come on the air and talk about his exotic location. He mentions that he is in a needed country then proceeds to have half a dozen long QSOs while hundreds of stations are waiting.
If the station doesn't want to run a pileup he needs to say so up front. Nothing is worse than waiting a half an hour thinking you might have a chance only to hear the station go QRT. Better the DX op writes down a few call signs heard and then announces them saying they will be the only QSOs. Frustration builds bad behavior.
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by N3HKN on March 15, 2003
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The DX station is under no obligation to act according to the obsessive behaviors of DX country, county, islands, numbers, etc. of the people who count/collect using radio as a tool to measure their success. It is quite nice that a DX station takes the time to add a human touch to radio instead of the insulting, and untrue, 599 73 "QSO" we hear for hours today. Isn't it more in the spirit of communications to spend 5 minutes with a DX station and learn something rather than sitting for hours babbling 59, 59, 59, 59,>>>>>
Dick N3HKN
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guess how the operator behaves
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by JJ1BDX on March 15, 2003
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I think so-called DX station operators have the right to 'enjoy' a contact. And the callers of the so-called DX station should guess what the operator on the other end really wants from the contacts.
(The reason why I added 'so-called' before the word DX is that whether a station is DX or not is a quite subjective issue - for some JA newcomers even a Californian station is a DX. For an experienced operator who is on the DXCC Honor Roll a Ducie stations may NOT be a DX.)
73 es FB DX de Joe JJ1BDX/3 es AE6LI
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...redo
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by K1MKF on March 15, 2003
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Before you all kill me for rehashing thise topic I must point out that I submitted this topic before the previos toungue in cheek DX article was posted. I must say he did a better job expressing the frustration. And we were both just laughing off and comiserating our frustration. Take it lightly, please!
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Let's look at our part in it....
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by K1OU on March 15, 2003
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Perhaps the DX doesn't want to do the slam bang 59 thing because Joe DX'er has the manners of a highly indulged seven year old. I know I would be pretty burned out after awhile if during pileups I asked for something specific and had it paid no heed by screaming masses with mic gains jacked out to here.
You know the type, the last two shouted into a mic that is release-to-listen instead of push-to-talk. It all boils down to the same thing time and again; put the best signal on the air that you can, and have fun!
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by M3SKF on March 15, 2003
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one rule i have is never call into a pile-up with my qrp power.If by any chance you get the contact the high power boys will BLIZT you to bits,now thats bad behaviour then they rant & rave...cut throat this game of dx hea.
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"I'm a Very Busy Imbecile"
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by WA2CWW on March 15, 2003
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My eyes are red from sobbing. Such tragic and heartrending stories of lost DX love! Truly, there is no justice in this world...
Sorry--I'm OK, now. But, I just can't help wondering what ever happened to a little patience and initiative? If everyone else in this country was as lazy and helpless as these DX-hungry defeatests then America would not be the great world-oppressing power that it is now.
And did it ever occur to anyone here that this isn't necessarily supposed to be easy, this DX card collecting thing? Nor is it supposed to be the sort of passtime that engenders identity crises and nervous breakdowns in its less capable participants.
Moreover, there is no law that says you can't actually enjoy the process of scaling the heights of the DX Everest--notwithstanding that this impressionistic, wholly subjective enjoyment factor does not show up in any country total.
But no. Nowadays it's all about the infamous "bottom line." It's about "How many cards can I get of different countries, on different bands, in different modes, while in different states of mental nullification?" Web spots, gargantuan beams, the latest software, the loudest linear--and still no success! Well...
The big question isn't "How can I avoid the pain of a failed DXing effort?" But rather, "Are the guys who have worked every DX prefix in the known universe any happier as a result of having done so?" (Or, you can simply ask yourself if anyone at all in the whole wide world will give a good crap whether you've earned DXCC.)
But if you are a self-admitted DX lost cause, if you are incurably afflicted with DX lust and yet have not achieved the success you'd hoped for, there is hope. Allow me to suggest that you start on the long road to the honor role by exercising some patience.
For example, try waiting for the DX station in his accustomed spot and be the first station who hears him. Or better yet, call CQ when and where he tends to operate and see if he'll respond to you.
I know that both of these techniques work because I've used them. In my case it was quite unintentional, of course. I just happened to be on the air, spinning the dial, listening, waiting, talking to whoever happended to be around, loving the hobby when...surprise! I netted the so-called "rare" one before he became "well done." And believe me--I am the proud owner of the crummiest signal on twenty meters.
In other words, dig in, get your hands a little dirty, and earn it. Yes, earn it for once. Spend the time, make the effort, do what it takes--instead of demanding that the rest of the world conform to your own illusory ideal of amateur bliss.
For the sad fact is that no matter how ridicoulously easy it is these days to work 100 (or 10,000) countries, you still have to actually do it. No one is going to hand you that ever-so-tasteful plaque just for the asking.
And if you are just too busy, if you simply can't afford to take the time to make the sort of effort it takes to succeed, then tough luck. You'll just have to find some other way to bore yourself with the hobby.
Honestly, I'm just trying to be helpful!
CWW (the extra "W" because I love it so much!)
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by VE7LFN on March 15, 2003
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well, put yourself in their shoes. What if we in NA were a wanted DX contact. Would you even turn your radio on? I can't see the enjoyment of being hounded by dozens of stations *every* time you fire the rig up.
Maybe the OM or YL just want to have a chat with someone on the radio - I know, radical concept! ;)
VE7LFN
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by N6VHF on March 15, 2003
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Everyone has made a good point. We have all been frustrated from time to time with a DX station. But, like stated earlier, what fun would it be if it was really easy to attain Honor Roll. I would say that it has to do with today's society and how we have to have everything now, right away. The majority of the people don't want to wait or work for anything. It is the "I want it now" mentality. Not everyone is like that, but they are sure the majority.
Imagine if you were the DX station. Every time you turned on the radio, you are bombarded with thousands of people calling. In these pile-ups you have the full spectrum of hams. Newbies, QRP'ers, rude ops, lids, jammers, DX Police and the egotistical hams that have already confirmed the country but want to break the pile-up so everyone knows who is the king of the hill. Mix all that up into a pile up that the DX station has to experience every time he turns on the radio. Would you want to be on the receiving end of that every time you operated?
If you are a DX-pedition, then the answer to that question better be YES. But if you live in this DX place and have no choice in the matter, the answer might be NO. These guys have every right to carry on conversations and operate however they want. It is very rude on our part to insist that they just give out 59 - 73 reports for hours at a time. If you are the kind of operator that just likes to talk, and just happen to live in a pretty rare country, you would probably not look forward to turning on the radio. Personally, I love to be on the receiving end of a pile up. I think it is fun. So for me, that would be my "cup of tea." But for those op's who don't enjoy the contest style of operating, we ought to let them dictate how they operate. Let's not try to force them into operating the way we want them to operate. If we do that, they may never turn on the radio. When that happens, there will be no chance that you will someday be one of their "casual" contacts and you will go a long time before you get that QSL card in the mail.
73 & Good DX
Neil - N6VHF
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by WB2TLQ on March 15, 2003
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Since both of these threads were supposedly tongue in cheek, here is a REAL solution to the problem that any REAL, SERIOUS DXer should undertake for this problem:
First, contact Mr. SlowDX by email or snail mail. Tell him that you appreciate that he doesn't like pileups, but bygod we need that DXCC Honor Roll bug on our QSL cards! So to help things out you offer to rent a room from him, and rent his station. Start at a couple of hundred bucks a week. Work your way up from there. Whatever it takes, this is important!! Two, three thousand dollars a week is not too much.
After he agrees, quit your job. Gather up your life savings. Buy some decent antennas have have them shipped to the "rare" DX. Now go there to live for a while. Spend a week or two putting up decent antennas. After the antennas are up, sleep for a couple of days, you are going to need it.
When you are rested up, start calling CQ (with your new local callsign that you spent months doing the paperwork on.) Wow, huge pileup. Work 'em all. Do not leave the air while **any** station is still calling you. Eat, sleep, do it again. Oh yeah, work every mode, RTTY, PSK, CW when someone calls in and wants a SSTV you ask when. AO-40?? No problem. Remember this is the easiest DX-pedition around...you just went to some guy's house and sat down at his rig!
Keep doing this day after day (paying the rent of $3000 a week of course) living on sandwiches and coffee. Stay on the air until the packet cluster starts having postings like for each and every mode: "VP8/K1MKF CQ,CQ Not much interest." "VP8/K1MKF AO-40 -- no takers" Now your job is almost done.
Go home and fill out the several hundred thousand QSL cards for all the QSOs. Go ahead, write them by hand, it gives the nice personal touch. Mail them all out at your own expense. Now when Mr. SlowDX comes on, give him a call. No one else will and you can have a nice chat to boot.
Anyway, that is what a "REAL, SERIOUS" DXer would do rather than complaining on EHam.
OK, now I will go surgically remove my tongue from my cheek...well maybe I wasn't kidding by all that much.
73,
Bill, WB2TLQ
Wausau, WI
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by WA1TJB on March 15, 2003
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I have worked a number of pile-ups over the years and have been grateful that DX stations are willing to endure the often bad behavior of hams who are hunting them. Put yourself if the DX stations position, wanting to enjoy the hobby but every time you get on the air you generate an instant pile-up. They have the right to enjoy a friendly QSO just as much as we do. In fact, I have often wished that I could have a long QSO with some foreign stations, but have not been able to due to respect for the number of other stations waiting to work them. My suggestion is to lighten up and enjoy the hobby. There's plenty of DX to be worked and the more respectful and relaxed we are, the more we can really enjoy each and every contact.
73 de Gary
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by RADIO123US on March 16, 2003
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I have said this before in other posts regarding
this issue. There would be alot more of us able
to work DX stations if it were not for the few
stations that have to make "insurance contacts".
How many times do the big guns have to contact a station on the same band to make sure they got the QSO in the log ??? I run 100 watts to a dipole and would probably be able to work some of the DX stations if
it were not for the stations in the pileups that say stuff like "glad to work you for the 5th time this week". Each time a station does this means one less contact for someone that NEEDS the QSO for an award.
By the way, these are the same guys that will bust a pileup only to ask the DX station what his callsign is ... they are not interested in the DX, they
are only wanting to prove once again that they can
bust any pileup at anytime.
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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Anonymous post on March 16, 2003
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I wouldn't even get into this hobby if I were in a foreign country. The ARRL sells the idea of "awards" for establishing 2 way contact with DX stations. What a stupid idea????????? You should get an "award" as if it were some big accomplishment?? Maybe in 1909 using spark it was a big deal, but in 2003 with dsp radios, alpha amps and beams at 50 feet, contacting DX is about as difficult as dialing a cell phone.
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by W9JCM on March 16, 2003
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Everyone wants something easy or for nothing these days. What a premiss lets work a little and try to strive for a goal be it DX or whatever.... Even if your QRP in a big gun pile up you can do it with some time.
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by RADIO123US on March 16, 2003
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W9JCM, I agree with you that even the QRP stations
can eventually get through the pileup, but why should
the little guy have to fight a pileup of big guns
for DX that isn't even rare ??? Don't you think
the big guns have worked Canada, Mexico, and Brazil
many many times ??? I personally think alot of the
big guns are not as interested in the DX as they are
proving that they still have the biggest signal on the
band. If these big guns would just give the little
guys a break, there would be far fewer pileups and
a lot less frustration.
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by RADIO123US on March 16, 2003
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A good example of what I am saying is the
last 4 -5 hours of the CQ WW DX contest.
There is absolutely no competition from
the big guns, because they have already
worked the DX and are not allowed to dup.
Am I saying that these big gun stations should not
work the DX...NO...I am just saying that if
they have worked the country 50 times already
and have many QSL's, then it would be really
nice for them to let the little guys have some
fun too.
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Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by N2MWE on March 16, 2003
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Here is one of the reasons I am contemplating selling my Alinco DX70 and my Icom 746 and setting my license on fire...so a DX station has the nerve to get on the air and hold a real QSO? GOD FORBID!!!! Why in God's name does a DX station have to get on the air and say "I am not interested in a pile up?" Isn't this person entitled to fire up his/her rig and just ragchew for a while without having to worry about hundreds of American DX operators piling up on the frequency? Hey gang!! This is a hobby, not a competition! It's not easy sitting there and trying to talk to a hundred people at once. And let's not forget the QSL cards. How many of you DXers cough up the IRC for the card? How many send a little something to the DX station to cover the costs of the thousand cards that need to be printed up because someone wants to get their DXCC?
Amateur radio has changed a lot since I first got licensed. And I've only been licensed for twelve years. If I fire up my HF rig anymore, it's to listen to shortwave broadcast, a little SSB utility, or a pirate radio station.
Canned QSOs are not my thing...sorry. 73
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by KY6R on March 16, 2003
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First and foremost - its only a hobby, not a job. The DX gets to call the shots and the chasers have to play by their game. It only takes 2 minutes of listening to see if the DX likes ragchewing or likes working pileups. You win some, you lose some - c'est la vie. Its a good thing that you don't snag everything everytime - that would be too easy and boring.
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For Pete's sake....
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by N0XU on March 17, 2003
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Mark:
Please tell us why you think the DX has some obligation to you to operate in a manner so as to support *your* effort in earning an award? Doesn't he have a right to operate his station in any manner he pleases (as long as it is legal)? Why do you think that, by dint of his being in a "rare" location, he has to announce his intentions?
73 Drew N0XU
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RE: Nasty DXers
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by N4GI on March 17, 2003
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Pushing the OFF button can help to eliminate these "problems" of the original poster.
Say, while I'm here; Who do I complain to when I go fishing and don't catch any?
Blake N4GI
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by KC0ODY on March 17, 2003
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I am a new operator and recently discovered the fun of chasing DX... I am not into contesting yet, though, as I'm still just happy that I have been able to work so many countries on 100 watts out with a simple 3 band trap dipole. In the short amount of time I have been on HF, I've noticed that the really good DX ops are very good about controlling the traffic to their station and set rules for the ops who want a contact. I have been impressed by several of these folks' skills at controlling a huge pileup, and respect those rules.
I figure if I don't get the contact this time, there'll be another... and another... down the road. I'm in no hurry for my DXCC. I know my signal isn't as big as some out there, but that has not kept me from being picked out of a pileup before some of the big guns are! I don't know why this is- maybe it's the fact that so few women seem to be chasing DX? I have only heard a few women DXers besides myself in the pileups. All I know is that I'm just happy to make a contact and am grateful to the DX station to come back to me.
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by W9SZ on March 17, 2003
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There are many different types of people in ham radio with different interests. I think the key is to be tolerant of the other guy, whether you're the ragchewer who doesn't like "59 73" or the DXer who likes such QSO's.
Remember Hartmut 9X5HG? He was into ragchewing, not "599 73". He was the only active ham in Rwanda for quite a while and actually gave out a lot of QSO's. And he was a great QSLer. But you had to play by his game. Then along came another ham to Rwanda who WAS into the "599 73" QSO's. He made many more QSO's and was also a great QSLer.
So I think the moral of the story is that if you're patient and tolerant and wait long enough, someone will come along and provide what you want, whatever it is.
See you in the pileups. :-)
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by K1MKF on March 17, 2003
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Did any of you guys that are killing me saying I am what's wrong with HAM radio even read my original post?
All I said was that if the DX wants to run some quality qsos and not a pileup he should just say so up front so a huge crowd doesn't form and start jumping all over each other.
It's just another way of stating the rules before the game begins to keep things friendly.
I wasn't complaining about his right to ragchew or that I deserve to get something without earning it.
Where do you people get these ideas?
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by N0XU on March 17, 2003
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<snip> All I said was that if the DX wants to run some quality qsos and not a pileup he should just say so up front so a huge crowd doesn't form and start jumping all over each other.
It's just another way of stating the rules before the game begins to keep things friendly. <snip>
Do you think that announcing it once would do it? Probably sooner rather than later, someone would post the spot on the DX packet clusters, and a crowd would form. Then the DX would have to announce every five minutes his intention to ragchew, because the guys that just showed up didn't hear it. If you were the DX, would you be willing to announce your intention every five minutes? I doubt it.
"Friendly" means you wait patiently, on the sidelines, until the DX is willing to run a pileup, IF AT ALL. And if he doesn't, tough cookies. YOU chose to chase paper, not him. Just because he lives or has traveled to some "rare" location doesn't mean he owes you anything whatsoever.
Waiting for the DX to be ready is just another part of the challenge. It's only paper, after all...
73 Drew N0XU
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by CU2AAV on March 18, 2003
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I think if the "DX" station in question is having a long QSO, is perfectly obvions he is not willing to create a pileup, why should anyone depending on his location be forced to tell on the frequencie that he is just wanting to have a few "chats"?
If I hear anyone on a far DX place, and that station would be a "new one" or needed one for me and he was having a simple QSO with cpl of friends or not, I would just have to wait and try my luck calling him when he gives a chance for it, if this could not be possible, then I would hope to hear him on another time!
Is it against the rules for a most wanted station wanting to have a ordinary QSO on the band with out having to find himself with a few thousands of DX'ers screeming for him?
73 de Ricardo
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by CU2AAV on March 18, 2003
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Ok, I just needed to add my own experience, I know very well CU2 is not a most wanted, at least for toaday's days, but I still come into the radio like it happened a few weeks ago, and turned om my little radio and tuned up a my recently made hb9cv on 12m to see how would work, uauu great fast and easy tunning, and with aroun 50 to 70 watt peak, I gave a cpl shots in the air, rigth away a newyorker came back to , he was a very nice guy, and I started (as you guys say) ragshewing with him, radio this, antenna that, weather , age, power, etc, few congrats for the small station and good conditions, around 10 minuts passed, and time to go, cause xyl gave a short "dinner is ready", after the finals, and informing the qrt, boom, i dont know how many but there were some calling back, ok I wont call it a pile up, but If I stayed I am sure it would turn into one...I apologised and sayd I needed to qrt, imagine how it would sound if before I made my call I would say "cq cq 12, cu2aav, calling for a radio check or something, please I dont look for pileups, I am just after a short nice ragshew contact..." this would sound very (sorry) "stupid"
Now here is my point,after few years of radio, today I am afraid of calling, to be honest I have been avoiding to call for the last cpl of years, why?
Because as some of would say, I am a slowDX'er, I dont know how to handle pileups, I get nervous, and sometimes even afraid someone migth call me names, I have 28 years old, I have sevral computers at home, AND i still prefer using paper log, pencil, asking for station's names, and report REAL RST signals, if possible also letting the other stations know what is my equipment and get the feedback.
Now to some of you out there put yourselfs in my place and try to imagine how a REAL most wanted station would fill in my situation!!!
73, thanks
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by K7KCS on March 18, 2003
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I've often thought Hollywood Celebrities have an awful time maintaining a private life. They can't go to a restaurant without gawkers or autograph seekers swarming them. Same Same rare DX. Even not rare DX. Aren't they just like me? I don't want to exchange call signs and RSTs with 500 Californians in a night . . no I want to enjoy a few good QSOs one of which may be from California. The DXers may be compared to horny guys chasing a cute blond. All they want is her QSL card, they don't really want to have a conversation with her at all. . . . . 59 thank you mam.
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RE: Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by W2IRT on March 19, 2003
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Frankly, I'd love to see DX operations to some of the really rare spots (read those places that are uninhabited and only activated once every few years) give the little guys a break every so often during their operations.
Like untold many DX lovers, I'm limited to 100W and a dipole not too far off the ground--and there's no possibility of my being a Big Gun on the bands for a long time. Fair enough, I can live with having to be sharper in skills than louder of mouth.
I'd just like to see some operations (like the recent Ducie team) pause for a few minutes now and then and invite those with low power or small antennae--and who NEED THEM for an all-time new one to come on in and have a go (to be fair, maybe do this 2 or 3 days into the fray).
Granted, if they're going to be "there" for 10 days or two weeks, then probably by the start of the second week they'll be begging and everybody will have a chance--but if it's a short operation to a very rare QTH, then I'm sure the numerous little-pistols would be ecstatic for a _FIGHTING CHANCE_ (not a guarantee) at a good catch.
The stateside/europeans can do their part, too. If you have an entity confirmed on a band/mode, then WAIT a while for your vanity contact. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that when Ducie rolls around next time I will NOT call them on 10, 12 and 15 until they're CQing to quiet air--assuming I get them confirmed on those bands this time (grin).
I'll always do my part to help the struggling compromised-DXer get a new one or new band cuz I know how nice it is when I catch a break. Call it Karma. I also know that if I'm ever fortunate enough to be part of a team to a wanted entity, I'll *always* leave a few minutes here and there for the weak guys to have a shot.
- 73
Peter
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RE: Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by W2IRT on March 19, 2003
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I've probably said this before, but I think it bears repeating. I can't tell you how annoying it is to hear some KaliforniaKilowatt blathering on to no end about meaningless piffle, then stating (sometimes twice or even thrice in the same exchange) "won't hold it, many stations calling" -- all the while knowing the DX would rather be having root canal surgery than listening to how he was stationed in Upper HoogaBooga during the war and flew a B-1234567 into Lower HoogaBooga...GAH!! Sometimes the DX stations *want* to run a nice juicy pileup and they get stuck with these egotistical jacka$$e$ who Must Be Known As the King of All DX.
Bite Me.
If the DX is enjoying nice chats rather than running a pileup, I think that's the cue to all and sundry listening that they'd better try another entity somewhere else or hope they can get in.
Conversely if you, Mr. I Have More Toys Than Manners, hear a nice pileup with a good rhythm going, please be courteous enough to exchange a quick "59 into California, 73 and Good luck" and move on! Frankly, for my style of operating, that's about 3 times longer than necessary, but that's just me (grin). Heck, in a pileup, I consider myself long-winded when I say "Thanks for the new country," but I'll let manners trump brevity on those rare occasions :-) With 227 worked, those "new ones" are getting increasingly rare on my little wire!
-73
Peter
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RE: Those Nasty DX Hunters...
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by WA9SVD on March 19, 2003
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Hello Peter,
I don't think it's quite as bad as you make it to be. (And I ain't no Kalifornia Kill-a-what! I've got 100 W on a good day with a dipole strung between the garage and house!)
The DX station (or the Kal. KW for that matter) can call the shots; when the other station (eventually) turns it back, you just say "yes, that's all well and good. Have a great day. I wish to make more contacts. 73. This is W*0***(or whatever call)Que Are Zed." (And I know there are those that will object to the use of QRZ on phone, but in this case, I think it's OK!)
If you are responding to a DX station, follow his lead. If he wants to rag-chew, then rag chew. If he's running a pileup a mile deep, and seems to be enjoying it, then either go with the "5x9, 73" contact and be satisfied that he at least heard you, or tune elsewhere.
And if YOU are the DX station, special event station, or whatever, then YOU can call the shots. If you want to average 10 contacts a minute or rag chew for an hour, that's entirely up to you! (Of course, when you want to rag chew, you will occasionally run into the person who wants the "5x9 73" type of contact. It's up to you how to handle that.
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