Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

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Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

Don Snodgrass (K4QKY) on March 23, 2003
View comments about this article!

Echolink works and works very well! However, its use is currently restricted to only licensed hams.

Perhaps there needs to be some way for potential hams to use Echolink to talk with licensed hams and learn first hand more about our wonderful hobby. You may know yourself the importance of an "Elmer" to guide and encourage you toward attainment of a ham ticket.

Echolink could serve to link potential hams to already licensed hams in the same town or on the other side of the world. This can be done strictly via an Internet Echolink connection. Better yet there could be a cross link from Echolink to the ham bands providing a control operator is present and any necessary third party requirements are met.

All that may be needed is for Echolink software code and member ID accountability procedures to be modified as needed. This would insure that not yet licensed hams could not be auto cross-linked to the ham bands without the presence of a control operator.

I propose that non-hams be permitted to download and install Echolink software. During the software setup phase, a special non-ham identifier would be assigned. This would disallow them from connecting to any station such as repeaters (-R) stations on Echolink where a control operator is not always present. However, they should be encouraged to connect with all others where a control operator is always present.

I understand that the Echolink staff may not embrace adopting special Echolink provisions for non-hams especially since Echolink is currently free. However, it may be worth the effort especially if we all put the future interests of our hobby ahead of the interests of already licensed hams.

This is just my opinion. What do you think? I've already expressed my thoughts directly to Echolink via the feedback form available at: http://www.synergenics.com/el/support.htm. If you agree, perhaps you may want to do the same.

Best wishes,

Don

K4QKY

http://webpages.charter.net/donsno

Member Comments:

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Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K4QKY on February 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

It has been several days now since posting my original opinion to this forum.

I also submitted a similar posting to the Echolink reflector (echolink@yahoogroups.com) which has evoked several mostly negative responses. That's fine since this topic is all about opinions. However, I am somewhat surprised that more reflector readers did not recognize the potential positive impact of my proposal since most hams tend to feel that we need to find better ways to attract new blood into our hobby.

Many hams will also believer that other competing interests, especially the Internet, have made it difficult to recruit candidates. Echolink might help bridge the gap since it has already created a wonderful synergy between ham radio and the Internet. So, aren't we possibly missing the boat by restricting participation to just licensed hams?

Allow me to restate my case. My original posting contained several instances of the key words "control operator". That's because, like everyone who responded to my posting on the Echolink reflector, I recognize the importance of insuring that the use of Echolink remains under strict control. However, I still believe that Echolink can be opened up to prospective hams providing provisions are made to preclude them from access to the ham bands without the presence of a control operator. More specially, the Echolink software code could be modified to preclude connections to only single user Echolink participants, i.e. those without the sysop mode designation of -L or -R. This would at least give prospective hams an opportunity to communicate one-on-one with licensed hams albeit without actually being on the ham bands. Some hams, if warranted, may desire to take the foregoing scenario one step further by cross linking prospective hams from Echolink to the ham bands so that they can experience real ham radio first hand. There should be provisions for this as well, again provided a control operator is present.

Alternatively, another perhaps better way to satisfy all everyone's concerns might be for Echolink to establish a new designator which could be something like -E for "Elmer" (e.g. K4QKY-E). This unique designation would only be assigned to licensed hams who are (1) willing to be "Echolink Elmers" for prospective hams, (2) agree to always be present as the station control operator whenever connected to Echolink and (3) optionally have Echolink interfaced with their ham equipment for simplex crosslinking. Participating Echolink prospective hams would of course only be permitted to connect with hams with the -E identifier. This way, hams not wanting to be bothered by prospective hams won't be.

Don

K4QKY

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K9KJM on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Sounds like a great idea to help get people interested
in ham radio!
BUT the "new" non-licensed persons HAVE to be restricted to access those hams who choose to have
the "-E" for Elmer after the call..........
And be no way for them to access any other stations.
From what little I know of the Echolink program I
think that this could be done? (Of course the "Elmer"
could connect the newbies to whatever other stations
he chose to connect to, Giving them a "tour" of
some of the contacts possible. Just about like
an Elmer letting a non licensed guest in his house
talk over an HF rig, While he was present at the
controls)
Should some Elmer get carried away or overzealous
connecting non hams to links or whatever, The operator
of that station can simply put the Elmers call on his
DENY Access list. One of the many neat features of Echolink..... Or I'll bet it would not be too hard
to add a feature to Deny access to all -E station if
YOU don't want to be bothered helping newcomers.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by VE6BGM on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Instead of "Amateur Computer", why not invite them to your shack and let them see the many varied aspects of Amateur Radio that involve the use of RF at both ends and not just computer to computer. I have no problem with WIRES, IRLP so there is lots to show kids/adults about the multiple facets of Amateur Radio. They do not need to be licensed to operate computer to computer!

73

why not eQSO?

by JJ1BDX on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

eQSO is less restrictive on accepting non-licensees, though eQSO has a policy of prohibiting non-licensees (called SWLs) from transmitting in a channel where a radio transmitter is connected.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KB7ZZ on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Echolink as an Elmer~~I don't think so...however, the newest version of the Echolink software does allow a LISTEN ONLY mode...perhaps...the 'gang at Echolink' could make available a 'monitor' version so that potential hams could listen to the activities on a particular node...But I would like to add that the best 'Elmering' has always been the one-on-one approach....allowing 'potential hams' to 'chat' on Echolink defeats the purpose of ham radio...why get a ticket if I can chat without one....if that's what you want..join a chat room on AOL. If you want to play 'real' amateur radio--get the license!

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N2BR on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I agree invite the none hams into your ham shack and show them all about ham radio,Put them on hf and let them talk on 2 meter etc.Get a ham class started and get none license hams intrested and setup demo's in your town or city.They get more intrest into the hobby than just listening.If they just want to just listen only then they can download EQSO software its also FREE.I dont think you will see echolink open up this way,Sence you want it why dont you write some software yourself or get IRLP open for no-hams and swlers to monitor.

Bob/N2BR

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K4QKY on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Please visit http://webpages.charter.net/donsno/echolink.htm which provides an updated and more detailed proposal for review.

Thanks and best wishes,

Don

K4QKY

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N4GI on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

What are the "Elmers" going to teach about echolink? How to plug a $2.00 plastic microphone into the "MIC" input of a PC? That isn't radio operating to me, sorry to say.

New prospects aren't going to learn squat about ham radio by surfing the net. It's about hands-on involvement.

You can chit-chat with people around the world already.... ICQ or IM, no pesky license required.

Blake N4GI

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KG4RUL on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

VOA has some real nice transmitters in SC. The Navy has really high power VLF transmitter in MI. Maybe Echolink should tie into these also? Think of all the exposure to radio operating procedures these non-licensed users could get. Maybe even start a war or two along the way?

Dennis - KG4RUL

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W5HTW on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Why not do away with licenses entirely? Or grant anyone who can actually change his/her own diaper an Amateur Extra Class ticket, with no test at all, and put 'em on the air? Well, OK, let's not even include the diaper-changing requirement. Let's make every computer user in the world a ham radio operator by default. That should put a few million hams on the air right away, the vast majority of them having zero idea what ham radio is, or its (used to be) rules and operating practices. Link 'em all to Sprint, AT&T, MCI, and others, and link this Echolink to the cell phone companies, so every kid in the world, not just in America, can be on ham radio through his cell phone, pager, Nintendo, Palm Pilot, or wrist watch.

Tell ya what. Why don't you install your ham radio station in a phone booth on Main Street, no dime required? Just turn it on and hang a sign on it, "Have fun, street people. Call Home. Or order a beer."

Yeah, buddy, good old ham radio. Let's see if we can do what CB did in the early sixties.

It dawns on me suddenly!! Hey, this is darned near April. I bet this is an April Fool posting. Oh, gosh, I've been suckered in again.

Ed

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K4QKY on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

No offense but it appears that many of the responses to the proposal are "knee jerk" reactions without first understanding the proposal's full intent and provisions. Please carefully study the proposal posted at http://webpages.charter.net/donsno/echolink.htm before jumping to any conclusions.

Thanks again,

Don

K4QKY

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by VE3TMT on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

If you open Echolink up to the general public it will become just another chat group. In my opinion there are already enough of these so-called "chat groups" on the internet. You might as welll stop issuing ham licenses because the is the kind of people you will end up seeing on the echolink. It will end up another sex chat group. Personally I like the fact you have to be a ham to use it. Let somebody else start another chat program and LEAVE ECHOLINK THE WAY IT IS!!!!!

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N5EDB on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

It should be for licensed hams ONLY.
thanks, Dale

dirty little secret

by KZ1X on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Nope, sorry. The Great Radio Lie we all accepted in 1990, that the 'no code' license would yield a 'real' ham radio experience, has proven to be a disaster. Did it get the number of licensees up? Sure. But just listen to the once-buzzing 2 meter FM band. It's silent now, despite a 150% increase in licensees eligible to use the band! Where'd everybody go?

You know where they went ... they got fed up and took up golf. The dirty little secret is that the hams that everybody wants to talk to, the knowledgeable experts and Elmers, got fed up with the tidal wave of the clueless - and most simply left. And now, silence.

The problem we have is that ham radio is about communicating with others WHO WISH TO BE COMMUNICATED WITH ... and what we have created is a radio island, an isolated place devoid of the traditionalists that created the lore of the hobby. These hams, who really move the hobby along, won't go to the island.

And, the people stuck on the radio island have nobody to talk to, to teach, or to show them why they got interested in the first place. They drop out and sell their gear. So much for the 'success' of the code free license. What this Echolink proposal is, is essentially a "license-free" license. How could THAT possibly help the real problem?

Yeah, I can see your lips moving now ... eliminate the CW requirement ... spare me, I've heard it all already. Dropping the code requirement altogether will just make a bigger island. All the traditional hams will simply go to CW; Q.E.D.

Echolink is yet another version of this Great Radio Lie. VoIP isn't radio. You can spot a radio easily enough ... Radios need antennas, no matter how hard they are to put up. My rig is tuned to 15 meter SSB as I write this, and it doesn't have an IP address. It has a call sign.

PLEASE don't make it easier to substitute computers for radios. Doing so will only makes things worse. Take the time and effort you'd have spent, and instead, invite a real (not virtual) kid to your RADIO shack, and let him/her see and hear a REAL radio.

THAT will make a difference.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by AG4NX on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

That doesn't make a lot of sense. This is after all exclusive to amatuer use only think about that. These are ham radios. Not GFRS or CB or any fo the free band stuff..

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W7DAH on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

To Don - K4QKY:

I'm encouraged that you have maintained your focus and composure in the face of so many LID-like responses. It's folks like yourself that are most likely to extend the hobby into the future. Much more so than the ones who are so readily willing to display their *fear* of the civil exchange of new ideas, meant to promote the hobby (note, it is a hobby rather than a fraternity). It's a stark contrast to a recent experience I had while tuning the bands to LISTEN-IN on my Drake R-4C. On 40M, at around 22:30Z I ran across a small group of mostly "6-land" Hams using profanity, racial slurs, whistling into their mics, and playing recorded music over the air. When one or two of 'em (not all ever did) finally identified, I went to QRZ to look 'em up ... yep, sure enough, mostly long time Extras. Some even had web-site URLs listed that had pictures of their proud FAMILIES and such. You know ... the ones that had to pass that 20-wpm code test too. Hmmm, maybe besides bringing back the higer speed code test, the FCC could add a psychological profile requirement to licensing requirements; that'd do more for the hobby than even a 60-wpm code requirement in my humble opinion.

Cheers!
Don - W7DAH

RE: dirty little secret

by KD7EZE on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Echolink is evidently not all it's cracked up to be. I recently downloaded the program, and registered, and supposedly have a full working version. However, everytime I click on a station that I want to communicate with, it takes a couple of seconds, then tells me it cannot connect to that station. Nothing on the page seems to help. So, I am neither for or against Echolink. It might be a good program, if it worked properly. But, in my case, it just takes up space on my hard drive, and has no real function.

'73 de KD7EZE

RE: dirty little secret

by KF4MKJ on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

There are ways for non-hams to listen and see what ham radio has to offer. They are called scanners, and shortwave radios that offer ssb reception. Why is there so little activity on 2 meters now? Most of us that were on the repeaters through the nineties have upgraded to extra after the code speed was reduced. We knew plenty about radio operation, theory, antennas etc. We were just held back by the speed of the code required to upgrade.

73 de KF4MKJ

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KD3V on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

This is a WRONG method of introduction!

Do what was suggested earlier. Bring them into your shack or bring the radios into the schools and show them real radios. Ham radio is NOT the internet! Our hobby is enhanced by the internet but the hobby is 'radios' and that is what the new people should be seeing.

There are a number of reasons not to open up Echolink any more to the possibilities on NON-licensed operation. There are repeater owners who refuse to use Echolink for that reason. They support IRLP but not Echolink. I can sympathasize with the trustee on this.

Take them by the hand and get them in front of the radios! Go visit schools and get them on the air up close and personal with a 'real radio'.

Another opinion.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K8LEA on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I have no experience with echolink or the other echo mode mentioned....

However, I know that I first got interested in Ham Radio (my call sign is original - from 1958) by listening, and reading magazines such as QST and CQ.

I don't see anything at all wrong with the "listen only" function - it may be cheaper than buying a decent HF receiver. I really didn't get a lot out of anything until I conned dad into helping me buy an SX-99....

The modern, inexpensive HF receivers are fairly good at AM, but I've had rather poor luck with SSB and bear in mind that I know what I'm doing, more or less [grin]. I wonder if a newbie could handle diddling the RF gain and BFO - if he's got one - to read some 40M SSB.

Certainly, any old scanner will get you an earful on 2M or 450, too, but there may be issues of _finding_ the repeaters if things aren't busy.

There's also some "magic" in DX, even if it's just the other side of the state. I think my best experience was a couple of 40M operators, back in the 50's, over in Columbus or someplace like that, one afternoon, who were ragging a third because he allegedly had a button on his desk that would fake a telephone ring when a QSO got too long.... "I gotta get into this!".... You can't do that with a scanner if you're lurking local repeaters, although you may have as much fun. Like the noontime one Saturday when a certain WA8's licensed XYL called him on the repeater to request that he come home to unplug their water softener....

(We wont' talk about what my wife said when I called home on the autopatch one evening to discover that the oven was throwing sparks all over the place.... Good thing I was a control op or I think I'd have been banned. As it was, it was tough to push the button befors she got to the really good words....)

As to having the newbies actually "talk", I don't know. Definitely a need for a control op, but perhaps a shack visit would make more sense. These days, if you're looking at VHF/UHF, the shack is likely to be somebody's belt, too....

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K8LEA on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I have no experience with echolink or the other echo mode mentioned....

However, I know that I first got interested in Ham Radio (my call sign is original - from 1958) by listening, and reading magazines such as QST and CQ.

I don't see anything at all wrong with the "listen only" function - it may be cheaper than buying a decent HF receiver. I really didn't get a lot out of anything until I conned dad into helping me buy an SX-99....

The modern, inexpensive HF receivers are fairly good at AM, but I've had rather poor luck with SSB and bear in mind that I know what I'm doing, more or less [grin]. I wonder if a newbie could handle diddling the RF gain and BFO - if he's got one - to read some 40M SSB.

Certainly, any old scanner will get you an earful on 2M or 450, too, but there may be issues of _finding_ the repeaters if things aren't busy.

There's also some "magic" in DX, even if it's just the other side of the state. I think my best experience was a couple of 40M operators, back in the 50's, over in Columbus or someplace like that, one afternoon, who were ragging a third because he allegedly had a button on his desk that would fake a telephone ring when a QSO got too long.... "I gotta get into this!".... You can't do that with a scanner if you're lurking local repeaters, although you may have as much fun. Like the noontime one Saturday when a certain WA8's licensed XYL called him on the repeater to request that he come home to unplug their water softener....

(We wont' talk about what my wife said when I called home on the autopatch one evening to discover that the oven was throwing sparks all over the place.... Good thing I was a control op or I think I'd have been banned. As it was, it was tough to push the button befors she got to the really good words....)

As to having the newbies actually "talk", I don't know. Definitely a need for a control op, but perhaps a shack visit would make more sense. These days, if you're looking at VHF/UHF, the shack is likely to be somebody's belt, too....

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N2WEC on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

ANY FORM OF OPENING THE AMATEUR BANDS TO UNLICENSED PERSONS IS A MISTAKE. WE ALL HAD TO STUDY TO BE HERE. THEY CAN TOO, IF THAT IS WAHT THEY WANT. THIS IS NOT A WAY TO PROMOTE INTEREST IN "R A D I O". GREAT PROMOTION FOR ANOTHER NET CHAT SERVICE. BEST BET IS TO FORGET THIS IDEA.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KD7KGX on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

The problem with this suggestion is that it potentially allows non-licensed persons to transmit RF without control and supervision by a licensee on that licensee's station.

The RF-to-Internet linking systems have, as a goal, the ability to link hams using amateur gear to other hams also using amateur gear over distances that the radio gear would not otherwise allow. In many ways, Echolink, IRLP, et al, are similar to, and provide much of the same functionality as HF operation. Of course, in many ways they aren't. But on thing they have in common is bandwidth restrictions and operating requirements. There is only room for so many simultaneous users, and improper operating by a very few will ruin it for the rest of us.

Obviously, this can, and does, happen today if a non-licensee were to purchase a 2m transceiver and use a repeater, or if a non-licensee were to obtain an HF transceiver and ignore band plans and proper operating procedures. We have these problems in the 10m band today from so-called 'Freebanders' who obtain 10m gear and run illegal amps that splatter up and down the band and put out more than the legal limit. The ham community is spending considerable time and effort to find and prosecute these interlopers without making it easier by providing an Internet gateway into our bands.

Most non-hams who stumbled over a means of getting on the airwaves unsupervised to talk to hams (or other non-hams) wouldn't bother getting a license. Enough of them would, either accidentally or maliciously, cause interference that the use of the RF-to-Internet node and the area within radio range of that node would be rendered useless to licensees -- and it wouldn't take many people to do this. Look at the problems that currently occur on many repeaters due to non-licensees (and LID licensees). That is why IRLP is specifically designed to prohibit getting voice into the system unless it comes via RF thru a node.

The various RF-to-Internet solutions are a valuable adjunct to ham radio. They're technically interesting, they facilitate emergency communications, and they open up an area of operating that has previously been limited to higher-level licensees. Certainly, the ability to communicate over long distances with easily-obtainable gear is alluring. But... I agree with those who would restrict use of the ham bands to licensees and directly supervised guest operators.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K1MKF on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

NO WAY!

I'm not usually this emphatic but there has got to be a limit. The no-code Tech test is easy enough. A weekend with a workbook is all it takes. If someone wants to give it a try that is the path to take. I have plenty of opinions on licensing but don't think that is the debate de jour.

Perhaps a reception only echolink website where prospective Hams can listen in would be a better idea.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N2BR on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with VE3TMT

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by WA4DOU on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I've been a ham for nearly 42 years. Thankfully I wasn't sold an "imitation" version of ham radio when I was a teenager. If all who read these posts on this thread are serious, go read and reread the post from KZ1X. There is nothing else to say.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K9WLF on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I am afraid that I must agree with most of the posts. Non-hams should not have access to anything that will allow them to transmit RF, unless they are in the shack of an Elmer, who is in control. I do not think that the reactions have been 'knee jerk' though we could do without the sarcasm from some of the posters. The childish sarcasm only perpetuates the poor image that hams have as a whole to the general public. Remember the public doesn't remember the good we do, with public service and emergency communications, they only remember the not so good. Amateur Radio is Amateur Radio, and the Internet is the Internet. I personally do not support echolink, wires or IRLP, though I have a computer in my home network, and am donating DSL bandwidth for echolink to get more activity on the repeater. If you want to chase DX, it should be done by radio, not internet, and that means learning the code. Using echolink to attract new hams also takes away the one on one contact that having an Elmer brings. Prospective hams should learn in a shack with an Elmer, not by themselves behind a computer. I also know some dedicated hams here in south Florida that offer Technician classes several times a year. Find an Elmer, take a class, pass the tests and learn the code for the higher licenses. Then chase DX the fun way. The only time I use a computer for Amateur Radio, is for PSK31. For me, keying up a node with a hand held and talking to Europe is not near as much fun as sneaking in under the big gun stations and talking to Germany while mobile. Don, I commend your good intentions in trying to grow the hobby, but your way will make the hobby too impersonal. If you want to grow more hams, become an Elmer, teach a class, but bring the personal touch to play.

73, Tom, K9WLF/4 -- Elmer, VE and radio merit badge counsilor for the Boy Scouts

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K6ZZZ on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I'm not usually too prudish, but this idea sounds like an invitation for trouble...especially with all the millions of pseudo-identities that can be generated on the Internet.

I have only two words as a stark reminder...

CITIZENS BAND!!!

JJ-K6ZZZ

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by WA9JYG on March 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

We do not cb people using this Echolink! If they want to use it then it all they have to do is become a Ham!

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W5AU on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

No Way !!

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W8JTW on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Personally after reading most of the comments I think Echolink or Eqso or WIRES or IRLP or any other Voip programs should be limited to Extra Class or Class A operators. Or atleast a General class license, if you need a 5 wpm ( was 13 wpm in my day) requirement to talk HF around the world then I beleive the same requirement should be for Voip. Even if the link is on 2 meter 440 or any other Tech frequency. Its a distance thing!!!!!

That brings another point. I thought going to 5 wpm was suspose to encourage new hams? That appearantly didnt work. Maybe it encouraged the 11 meter lid invasion. Too many times with Echolink I hear Hams trying to use a repeater or link thats Audio is actually worse than 11 meter operator. I think a good add on to a Voip program would be a voice clarity analyzer meaning if your audio is poor you will not be allowed to transmitt on a Link or repeater.

I think a better idea would be send you friend to Radio Shack and tell them to get a police scanner or Sw reciever (if they still sell those) that way they can listen but not transmitt!!! Thats another point Radio Shack what happened to amateur radio??? I guess they need to change there name to Cell Phone Shack.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KC0LKV on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I'm surprised.

I heard about echolink few months ago, but only last week download the application and to my surprise I realized that is not any different then Yahoo chat rooms or msn chats or any other IM software that is available on the net.

Eholink IS NOT HAM RADIO, is a chat software application with voice, like yahoo or msn.
There are thousands of members on yahoo ham radio groups and chatrooms, and you can voice there also.

Echolink downgrade this wonderfull hobby.

Its a shame that many hams really believe that this is the new generation of Ham Radio.

I unistalled the application because to me echolink is not hamradio!

If you must "CHAT" download Yahoo messenger!

73 KC0LKV

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K0RGR on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

This topic was brutally beaten to death on the echolink yahoogroup - which is a great place to go for those of you who are having trouble getting it to work. (http://www.yahoogroups.com)

Again, I think this idea has merit, but there are other ways to do the same thing. And, perception IS reality in cases like this. If the perception is that unlicensed people can get on the air via Echolink, the 'powers that be' will take rapid steps to kill it. Further, such a perception might lead to a flood of larcenous individuals trying to break in, which would probably result in a real exposure.

Echolink may not be real radio, but it sounds like ham radio to me. I do not care for the computer-to-computer contacts, either. Computer-to-radio contacts are a lot of fun though, and great for those who cannot enjoy the use of a real station.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W3DCG on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I'm not sure what Echo Link is. But from what I gather, the idea of an OFF Air, "eQSO" via the Internet is Echolink?

If it is, I thought we've had that since the beginnings of AOL. It's called:

Instant Messinger.

Surely that is so obvious that I am missing some pieces of the puzzle.

I think a great way to get the non initiated into the world of ham radio is to IRLP into the otherside of the world on a tiny HT, and hear the PIN DROP quality.

But certainly, NOT give them the legal authority to do it without the control operator present.

The no code Tech exam is really easier than ever before in the history of Ham radio, come on, if a person isn't willing to pass that, they truly aren't motivated enough to be there, and should be truly very happy to just stay On Line and Surf.

I think we should entice people, and the truly interested will pass their Techs with flying colors, no problem.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KC0LKV on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

To K0RGR

In your message you state:

"Echolink may not be real radio, but it sounds like ham radio to me. I do not care for the computer-to-computer contacts, either. Computer-to-radio contacts are a lot of fun though, and great for those who cannot enjoy the use of a real station."

How can you consider echolink to sound like ham radio??

Its a chat program!

I use and still use yahoo messager for voice contact with family and friends. And its been in use for now years..

What I consider computer to radio contacts are the one using Packet, RTTY etc..in which you still need a radio.

With echolink you don't.

What is going stop anyone from downloading it and registring the software?? The call sign???
Think about it. Any one can visit any ham ralated web site, grab a call sign and register the software. How will you stop that???

Echolink is not radio communication. It simply chat!

73 kc0lkv

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by WB2WIK on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I must add another small voice of dissent on this. Ham radio isn't all about communicating, and it isn't all about trying to recruit everyone in the world to become a ham.

I can chat via the internet with people all over the world for free, but would much prefer to experiment and fight poor propagation, push the envelope and try the impossible simply because that is the fun of the hobby. It will be a very sad day when no remaining hams remember that.

WB2WIK/6

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by AB9FH on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

It's really apalling how poor a job the majority of those who replied to this article did in understanding what is proprosed here.

Nobody is suggesting giving access to ham bands to non-licensees.

Some might be suggesting allowing operation by non-licensees SUPERVISED by a licensed operator. Nothing new about that.

If you are familiar with Echolink, you know there are different modes of communication. One of them COULD legally be done by non-licensees because it involves strictly an internet connection to another person. The adminstrators of Echolink have chosen to restrict access to hams only. The proposal is to remove the artificial restriction, because if non-licensees have more contact with hams, it might help recruit more hams.

Now that we have that straight .. in my opinion it's a well-intended idea but not likely to work. The fascination with ham radio has alot to do with the unique equipment. "I can IM people all over the world." That's about as exciting as watching paint dry. Yesterday's news. Contrast that when people hear that I can use my very basic setup (HTX-10, Hamstick) and talk to people in Spain and Australia and England. There is something about sitting in front of that microphone, tuning around or calling CQ, that is so unlike telephones and cell phones and IM and chat, it has a special excitement. Add into that the fascination of CW, using home brew radios and antennas, or supplying your own power. This is what makes ham radio unique, and in my opinion it's our best selling point.

It is in our favor that it won't appeal to just any Tom, Dick or Harriet. We don't want just anybody to become a ham, we want those who take it seriously enough to expend the effort to be A-1 operators, and who love it enough to want to share it others as elmers or public servants.

Howard Parks, AB9FH
1 Peter 4:10

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KB9WXO on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

After reading many of the posts I must agree, this is not a good way to get new people into the hobby. Voice over IP is an interesting technology with many uses, but it isn't ham radio. I can play with VoIP technology all day long without a ham license. My limited hobby time is spent playing with radios.

The local repeater that I used to frequent has become a technical chatroom dedicated to VoIP discussions (not on VoIP, about VoIP) and that seems to be all these hams can think about. I found a new home with some radio folks who weren't playing one upsmanship about how far away they had been able to talk to someone on an HT. At least they are willing to talk to me even if I don't want to talk about Echolink. I guess that's one nice thing about our hobby, you can find a niche and something that interests you.

Let the computer techies go play with their toys, if you want new hams, invite them to your shack and share our hobby. If you want to be an elmer, take a new ham under your wing and help them earn that higher class license.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams: I don't like

by K9NYO on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I've only recently tried Echolink, but I don't agree with allowing non-ham usage.

Like SWLs do with the ham bands, it might be interesting for non-hams to be able to listen to Echolink, though.

As far as a primary means of communication, I'd rather use the radio. But I think repeaters linked together over some distance is fun to use every so often.

To each his own...that's the beauty of ham radio and all of the different modes and methods. But I don't agree with opening it all up to those without licenses.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K5WAG on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

We do not need to turn the cber's loose on the amateur bands.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KB1JPB on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Hi all,

I'm new to all this, but hopefully my opinion will count for something since I passed the Tech and code tests two weeks ago. I'm now studying for my General.

I think any troubles the ham community seems to be having just surviving, let alone thriving, has far more to do with the rise of the internet over the last decade than with the near-elimination of any CW testing hurdles.

In considering my statement, I would ask more experienced hams to consider that getting into ham radio, for most of us out there in the general population, is no easy thing at all.

Take my story, for example. I'm 36 and just got my tech ticket, right? However, I did try to enter the hobby once before during the end of its golden age.

When I was 12 in the early 80s, a kid in my school gave me a study manual for the old Novice license. I was interested. But I did not come from a ham family--like many of the kids I see on these boards with Extra tickets at 17 do--and no one in my family knew anything about electronics. There was no ham club in my home town. There was no local Elmer in evidence to tutor me. Also, we didn't have much money; so my family was not about to buy me a ham rig in any case--and my newspaper route money was not going to cover the costs at that juncture. Boy Scout troops in my neighborhood were not the glorious entities they seem to be in the some parts of the country. We had no radio merit badges (or much of anything else of interest available either). There were no ham radio clubs in our schools either.

So I just had to drop the idea of becoming a teenage ham.

Years go by, I become an adult, and the computer revolution gets into full swing. Prices drop enough so that some friends of mine have microcomputers, then early email accounts. Soon I get my first email account. Then I get onto early listservs for group communication. Eventually I get my own used computer. I also began to have jobs where I have good computer access. I make some friends at nearby MIT; so I'm right at ground zero when the World Wide Web first hit.

I even end up working stints for a couple of the early major Web companies.

Though this whole period, like most everyone else, everything that's new and hip and interesting to me in technology is in computers and the internet. Not in ham radio. For most of society, for all intents and purposes, ham radio does not exist.

Eventually, however, I get sick of just being an expert computer user and, though not really interested in software, want to know more about how electronic devices tick. But I don't have the extra money or time to take courses in electronics.

Then one day two months ago, someone gives away an old broken ICOM-251A on a local net board, that I grab and set about trying to fix a bit (since I was already tinkering around with cleaning up an antique GE tube AM receiver), and I hit upon the idea of taking a look at ham radio again--because perhaps I can learn something about electronics by hanging around with all the engineers and amateur experimenters that still populate the hobby in some numbers.

So I start reading up about ham radio on the internet (I'm a researcher by trade), I hook up with a local friendly ham club, get a Gordon West study book cheap at a local rat shack, get some CW study shareware on the net, and spend 3-4 weeks studying for an hour a day or more. And I'm happy to say I pass my exams with flying colors.

Having done all this, I've got to say that for most people with no electronics or radio background, even the Tech test is not "easy"--as I keep seeing people on these boards saying derisively. While I, too, can see the usefulness of making the license tests less oriented to straight memorization, and more towards learning key concepts (particularly as I study for the general where just knowing the answer to a question does not mean understanding the question), let's not kid ourselves. For most people, ham tests are hard. CW tests are also difficult for many people even at 5 wpm.

So now, as I'm waiting for my first 2m h/t in the mail to begin actually adding some personal practice to the theory I've learned, I start reading discussion threads like this one, and find that far from recognizing how rarified and inaccessible a hobby ham radio is for most people, that many hams actually want to make the hobby more rarified and more inaccessible?!

But at the same time, many of the same hams, bemoan the state of ham radio, and its apparantly diminishing fortunes?!

This is all most puzzling.

This thread starts with a well-meaning ham, K4QKY, trying to figure out a way to attract more people to amateur radio. Sure maybe Echolink isn't the best way to do that--and I must admit that on the face of it Echolink doesn't sound like it will be my personal cup of tea, either--but at least he's trying to find a way to attract large numbers of (probably younger) net users to this hobby.

If we agree that EchoLink "isn't really radio" as many hams have stated here, then what's the harm in the proposal? I, too, think other ideas fielded in this thread like shack visits would be great (I wish I'd been able to have one), but obviously it would be difficult to systematize such a program. Whereas something like the EchoLink proposal would not be very difficult to implement. Anyway, K4QKY, should at least be praised for his initiative, even if the particulars of his idea don't end up being a working approach.

In any case, whether the CW tests are kept or not, I think it would be a real mistake to raise the entry bar to this hobby any higher.

Not if you want to attract more members of "Internet Nation" to. . .uh. . ."Ham County."

If people calling for reinstating higher speed CW tests, adding back defunct license classes, and making the tests structurally more difficult, really don't want fresh blood in the hobby, and want to just become a smaller and smaller antiquarian fraternity, then they can continue pressing their point until there's no one left to press it to.

But if people want to make the ham community a more welcoming place, with a more forgiving initial entry curve than even exists currently, I think they should listen more cordially to ideas like K4QKY's.

And I think there's no need to tinker further with the current license structure for the moment. Although it looks like the CW requirement is breathing its last. I can have no opinion on that issue yet, but I'll get back to you all in a few months after I've operated for a while.

If it makes more experienced hams feel any better, I decided to learn code now (rather than wait for the potential codeless General next year) to honor you all. And to honor the traditions of ham radio.

This is my attitude towards life in general. Honor the past, and build on established traditions (where worthy) for a better future. I don't believe in doing one without the other.

And I don't think that focusing on the past to the exclusion of the future is the way to keep ham radio thriving for very much longer.

73,

Jason Pramas, KB1JPB

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K0RGR on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

To KC0LKV -

Once again, I don't think much of computer-to-computer contacts either - that is definitely not ham radio, even if we choose to use callsigns. It's OK for a beginner who is not comfortable on the local repeater, however, and I've seen several use it that way, to get used to talking in a 'radio-like' manner.

What makes it interesting, however, is when we have radios and repeaters on one or both ends. In effect, the handie talkies become 'terminals'. Instead of sitting in front of my tube, I'm out driving around town, describing the scene to the person on the other end. How do you do that legally, and for free, without a ham ticket?

I've done HF mobile for almost 40 years, but I've never worked other mobiles in Europe on my 15 minute commute to work in the morning - this happens fairly often on Echolink, though! I still work as much HF as I can, but this stuff is fun, and sometimes useful.

My purpose in providing an Echolink gateway was and is to keep local hams on the air. In order for that to work, they need to be using RF on one end or the other. Otherwise, it is just a chatroom. If it becomes apparent that Echolink is actually undermining the activity on the air, I will yank my node instantly. That would be a good topic for the Echolink discussion group.

No, there is more involved than just downloading the code - the user needs to be authenticated, and many are rejected or asked to provide a copy of their license. I have not detected any apparent bootlegging. Yes, we know the system can be 'gamed' - but when in doubt, the sysops can lock an abuser out of the system in about 10 seconds, at least until he provides proof of license and is reinstated.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KB9KUO on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Absolutely YES!

As an AEC for ARES/RACES in Marquette County, Wisconsin, we have instituted an Alternative Frequency Coordinator. He will report weather conditions for SkyWarn, to our CB base, where we relay to our weather control amateur radio operator, and help in Search and Rescue and recruit others from CB, FRS, marine, GMRS and those interested in the weather but not on the "air".
He is not a ham himself, but he does have a CB base and a scanner. I think in time he and others we recruit into our group will join the ranks.
Echolink sounds like another fine opportunity to expose these non hams to our great hobby.
A control operator and restrictions sounds like just the ticket(no pun intended) to bring up the interest level of these folks.
If you found a new way to communicate with people without phone and not just chatting online alone, would you try it?
Oh, I guess you already did, didn't you? And you like it!
Why take away Morse code and lessen the requirements of testing when what we need are ways to bring people up to the testing levels.
If they are interested, they will come.
Lets get them interested.
Come on Echolink, more interest means more money!

Assistant Emergency Coordinator Marquette County ARES/RACES
Sam

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KG4LMU on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Not No but heck no!
EQSO is already doing a great job and users can access echolink Rf gateways. Eqso has made a great impact on SWLers let them finish what they have started and for the echolinkers that want to elmer go over to eqso and lend them a hand.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KC2FTN on March 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

BAD idea. If a 'potential' ham DOES want to hear what ham radio is all about, all they have to do is pick-up a scanner for $20 at a garage sale and program their local 2-meter machines into it!

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KC9CAU on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

hi all i know this is about echlink but i am a tech trying to become a general or even extra class operater and would like any tips or hints on learning the codeyou cal e- mail tips to kc9cau@yahoo.com also if any one happen to be on 6mtr in indiana try calling me on 50.1250 mhz thanks kc9cau

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KG4RUL on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

OK!

I have tallied the responses so far. I have even gone so far as to divide them into PRO, CON and MAYBE (pro but, with some reservations OR con if conditions are imposed).

And the envelope please!

PRO - 4
CON - 28
MAYBE - 8

Lets do a little fudging here and divide the MAYBEs equally between PRO and CON. We now have:

PRO - 8
CON - 32

I give a 4:1 edge to CON!

Now, let's let this old nag die a peaceful death?

Dennis - KG4RUL

RE: dirty little secret

by K9UUT on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

KZ1X wrote a thought provoking article. I thought I would try to share some ideas as well.

This topic actually goes to the heart of our changing hobby. But in my opinion it is a reflection of the massive amounts of change in all other areas of society. That sounds pretty heady I know. But whenever you have as much change in life as we have been delt, friction will occur.

Whenever the blueprint of a society changes, as when it evolved into the Industrial Society, there was a huge amount of friction. Learn about the Ludites and what they thought of the technology they were confronted with it. The Industrial Society is now evolving into what some call the Information Age. And again, with that change comes friction.

What people felt comfortable with in Amateur Radio 40 years ago was comfortable because the infrastructure of what they were born into was still in effect. The Industrial life had yet to change. But now, with so much "apparent" turmoil and change, we feel totally unprepared to deal with new ideas and efforts to move anything forward. Heck, let's just keep it the way it was. It worked didn't it? Bring back CW. Use the Internet with Ham Radio? You got to be kidding. That dark little secret that KZ1X spoke of above spoke volumes about our collective internal feelings of distrust and a lack of comfort we all feel right now.

We are, whether we like it or not, are all going through a major change in society. This "real" dark secret is the secret blueprint of society itself. It happened 10,000 years ago when that first human planted a seed and unbeknown to him created the Agarian Society to toil the land. Then hundreds of years ago mass production was invented. The Industrial Society was created which promoted standardization and uniformity. Everyone was time syncronized. Notice that the baby boomers all had fathers who all went to work at the same time and the kids went to school at the same time. The Industrial Society was also centralized. Power and money flowed to the center. Gee, that is why big cities were created. Mass media was also born. It also created the division of labor. yada yada yada. Many examples. But look around you now? Who goes to work or school now at the same time? Who even remembers what mass media was? (clue: ABC, CBS, NBC) Heck, the family unit has even changed and our government is blowing it's collective fuses no matter what country you talk about.

So, why am I saying all this? We are divided on this issue because of external forces upon us. Our hobby simply can not stand still and exist in a non Industrial environment anymore. The Internet is here and is changing our lives. It will change it more as time goes on. Integrating technology and "experimenting" with it has been what Amateur Radio is all about. BUT, I do understand why the majority of people still feel uncomfortable with that change.

I am not here to tell you your wrong. You are reacting to this important subject from your own life experiences. I just hope by sharing some level of perspective it will allow us collectively to see why these changes are occuring and why they need to. These changes are not happening just in this country but rather on a global basis. What we need to do is understand that we are all correct in our feelings on this subject but try to allow our hobby to evolve. The consequence of doing otherwise will only result in unproductive friction.

I enjoyed reading all the comments on this subject. Personally, I feel comfortable using the Internet with Ham Radio and I do use Echolink. I get excited when I can talk to a VK6 using an HT from my back yard via an Internet connected repeater.

The secret blueprint of our society now appears to lean toward less standardization as the Industrial Society which promoted it dies. Hence, ideas like Echolink will continue to be implemented and evolve into the infrastructure of other good ideas like the High Speed Multimedia ideas now evolving.

If you have made it this far, I applaud you. I just hope this perspective gives balance to the subject.

73, Rees Roberts - K9UUT

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by EI5FK on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Echolink, next they will be looking for an "ECHOLINK DXCC" I have no more to add
Charles

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by NE2Q on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Elmer through Echolink? If a non-ham can talk over 10,000 miles to the other side of the earth via his PC, whats his incentive to get a ham license? To talk an extra few miles through a repeater to a mobile? Wow! Some incentive! Zzzzzzzzzz

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by AD9GB on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

If your child wants to learn to ride a bicycle, you would not bye him/her a pair of roller skates. You would acquire a bicycle and teach them to ride it. I rest my case!!!! AD9GB

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KD7KGX on March 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Again... the goal (exposing more people to amateur radio) is a good one. What most of us disagree with is the method.

Here's an idea... why not come up with a way to use an EchoLink-like system with FRS? Most Western countries have a form of FRS (inexpensive unlicensed 1/2w UHF multichannel radios meant for personal utility and recreational communications)? Or, use it with CB?

Of course, this would quickly turn into a zoo... 'roger' beeps, echo mics, bad language and operating practices, etc. Just listen to the CB channels for a few minutes and imagine the cacaphony magnified worldwide.

So here's the problem. Any uncontrolled radio service gets unruly quick because it only takes a small number of unruly operators to ruin it (1 unruly op per frequency). The only saving grace of these modes (FRS, CB) is their limited range which keeps unruly users from affecting others beyond their immediate vicinity (that's why amps are outlawed on CB, as if that makes a difference).

Having to study for, and pass, a nontrivial (for non-technical people) test, helps ensure that only highly motivated people get on the air. These are the type of people that follow the rules because they don't want to damage their own sense of self-respect as a legitimate ham.

What ham radio doesn't need is more hams. It needs more highly motivated people who are willing to expend a little effort to get that ticket. The way to get these people involved is to make ham radio more visible, increase the opportunity to get a license via more classes and testing events, and promote more operating via nets and public safety training events and exercises.

Ham radio needs more publicity, not easier standards. Perhaps clubs should explore getting PSAs (public service announcements, a way of getting a free TV or radio ad), announce their training and classes in the local media (free newspaper/TV/radio 'community calendar' submissions), and issue press releases after every emergency activation.

Let people see what we're doing, and the motivated types will come.

Increase the visibility of ham radio through publicity and enough motivated people will come.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by VA3BRR on March 26, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

In essence i am opposed to the idea. I prefer to try to increase interest in our hobby by taking part in activities such as JOTA. I wasn't going to post even but I just had to not because I even care about echolink, but because there seems to be an attitude within the ham community. Most of the posts seemed to be so one sided. Did anyone stop to even think of the possible benefits. A lot of people were quick to say "bring them into your shack to show them real radio". How many of you are willing to do that for real. People are not likely to knock on your door and ask you if they can come in and see. It's my personal opinion that a large majority of the licensed amateurs are involved for their own benefits. We've proven it over and over again, by the way new people aren't accepted on the 2M repeaters, the code vs no code debate, etc. Come on get over it. Ham radio clubs have general gone to pot at least in my area. How is anyone to get licensed these days, maybe echolink is the way to go, everyone and their brother has computer. Well, I dunno, maybe I'll go find someone to invite into the shack tonight,
73 Brian
VA3BRR

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W6ZIG on March 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I think most of the people posting saying this is a bad idea haven't really paid attention to the original article. It is made clear that unlicensed people would NOT be transmitting without the (admittedly virtual) supervision of a licensed control operator. Just like visiting an elmer and his shack in real life, except this makes it easier for people who can't find a local elmer. Obviously visiting a ham in person would be best of all, but these days that's easier said than done, so this would be the next best thing.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by N8HDJ on March 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

a licence?

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by SWLER55 on March 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

As a SWLer and a soon to be ham I find the negative attitudes of you so called vets of the airwaves somewhat disturbing . Echolink may very well have a purpose in promoting the hobby to some extent and should be studied carefully . What disturbs me with this posting and lots of others is Hams who always have to make an issue of CB radio and discredit it for what it is ( or was ) . Face it fellows , CB radio is what caught the interest of radio communication of many who are now fine amateur radio operators and ushered many to become Hams because of the love of radio technology . Sure , some CBers are noted for being "idiots of the airwaves" but I sure hear a lot of Ham operators who carry on as bad or worse than some CBers I've ever heard !!! Easy to put down others or new ideas when you are already where you are now , but sometimes easier to forget what sparked your interest in radio communications or something new that may work for others ! 73 , John

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W5MET on March 28, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Here we go again .... Hello guys what you don't know about this topic is it has been talked about for weeks and weeks ... It was a topic of a net on a echo-link world wide with many people voicing there opinion on it ...<br>

The creater of echo-link does not think it is a good idea and he does not want to change the direction that he is working on to go back and change it all for people to lisen only ... <br>

It caused a huge amount of letters to the echo-link mail server on yahoo and the end result was No most people understand that the idea was good but it is not practical at this pont with the numbers about to hit 100,000 users.<br>

We have started live streaming audio to the internet to let people hear what is going on ... you can find it on many diferant web sites one is http://www.echolinkradio.com
<br>
One thing to remember is bandwith and to have 1000's more non hams sitting hooked up will only cause problems in audio qality... another point well taken is where are the elmers going to come from ? you cant even get enough people to be net controlers let alone to sit around in the hope someone will want to ask a question.. SO Like I say the conclusion was good idea but no thank you .... So why bring it back here and start this all over again .... Take care happy linking
Frank
W5MET

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KG4DKY on March 28, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Idea Sucks! If you want ham privliges get a book and study and get tech license, If not stay off the radio

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KB0VVK on March 30, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I think it should be for generals and up no tecks

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W5WLB on March 30, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

After 30+ years as a ham I think I can recognize one when I see one. He has radios in the shack and antennas in the back yard and talks to other hams via radio waves .
If he is sitting at a computer and talking to some one via the telephone line he is not hamming. He may have an amateur license but so what. Talking through a telephone line is not ham radio.
If you like that sort of stuff , good for you.Just dont try to palm it off as a ham activity.

RE: Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by W8MMQ on March 31, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Echolink, I-Link, etc. are not ham radio. People have been able to get on computers for years and talk back and forth ... nothing new here. I-Phone was popular some years back, and there were ham radio sections there. IRLP is the closest internet-based utility to ham radio, at least you are talking radio to radio in most cases, using internet as backbone. I suggest inviting people to your shack. Show them the radio, let them operate the radio. Forget the computer. This is amateur radio, not amateur computer.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by SSUMMA on April 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

ALRIGHT!
I am going to be a new ham, I havn't gotten a license yet but am studying.Being only 20 years old, I dont know alot but I am going to give MY opinion. The thing that has helped me to stay interested is being introduced to soo many new people and I now have the ability to LISTEN to the hams local in my area on my new HT. That keeps me interested and I agree that when the cities in your area have some kind of festival happening, set up some kind of "show and tell" booth. Get people interested that way, have brochures, examples ETC. Its great to have "field days" but who knows about them ??? HAMS only, so that limits the amount of "new blood" into the ham link. Being a very computer saavy person, I also believe that if someone is to get interested in ham radio, the computer should not be the way to do it. You get no real ham radio experience or education. I think this is all I have to say about this issue. Please this was not intended to offend anyone or make anyone upset. Just my OPINION

-Shawn
Fort Collins

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by ALECGOLD on April 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I've no licence. yet.
I like the idea of getting your licence before you're allowed to send on any frequency.
It is not just the connecting to a guy on the other side of the planet. It's about understanding what happens, what equipment you are using and why it does(n't) work.
If I wanted to chat with someone it would be quite easy and cheap to use the internet. But I want to operate a radio and contact with the radio people on the other side of the planet. Or in a spacestation, or my friend who lives 10 miles away on a vhf band.
Don't make it available for just anyone.
I can broadcast already, with a licenced Ham-mer who watches what I do, that's an old and proven way.
But the discussion itselfes is good.
73
Alec

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by K4CDK on April 1, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Using Echo Link as and Elmer is good, but wait until they get a license, we have enough chat rooms already. I have been helping new ham work out all of his questions that he is having after getting his tech license. IT is more enjoyable than having someone but in all the time like an open chat room.

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by VE3FAX on April 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

There ALREADY exists a method for prospects to talk to hams and get Elmer info etc. Its called Voice Over Internet via a CHAT Room. Just set up a Yahoo group for prospective hams, have a sched. for those Elmers interested and use it just as you would Echo Link!.

It will keep UNAUTHORIZED users off the repeaters and links and besides, once a prospect is introduced to the worldly reaches of Echolink, why would they ever want bother with radio equipment?

The true wonder of bouncing signals off the earth and atmosphere can only be realized through the thrill of "being there" in a radio room! INVITE A PROSPECT TO HELP OPERATE YOUR SHACK TODAY!

RE: dirty little secret

by VE3FAX on April 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

Just had to say I've never heard it put so well. THANK YOU.
Im newly licenced, got my code and am STARVING for more knowledge. Unfortunatly, the revised exam and course removed that requirement, so I am left to my own resorces and the bravery to ask more experienced hams for assissance. Problem is I feel like an idiot doing it and have been hard pressed to find many other NEW hams to share a similar technical interest, especially on VHF. No problem if I want to find out about the road conditions or how ABC Trucking treats its drivers. I can hardly wait for the no code crew to join the ranks on HF!

Echolink as an 'Elmer' for New Hams:

by KK7AC on April 2, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I think there is a little confusion on this issue. First of all a few comments.

If one claims they tried to download the program and it did not work or operate properly, you must have done something wrong or your connection sucks.

Secondly, I sense some confusion here. Not all echolink connections are computer to computer. I set one up to be RF only. So did my uncle. We both use HTs on an-other-wise-colleting-dust 440 simplex channel to