NWS: Friend or Foe?
Jon Link (K4III)
on
March 28, 2003
View comments about this article!
Being an avid weather enthusiast, ARRL member, and Advanced Skywarn Spotter, I happened to come across some disturbing news about what the NWS has proposed for "their" primary allocation on our secondary 70cm 440 band on
http://www.arrl.org/. Specifically:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/02/24/100/?nc=1 (Thank You for the info ARRL!)
It seems that although we are secondary status in regards to the 70cm band and its use, the National Weather Service has snuck in and deemed they have primary usage through "government" wind-profile devices they probably plan to set up nationally.
This comes as a shock to me who was enlightened earlier during my activeness in the Amateur Service by their interest in offering free "Skywarn Spotter" classes to train hams and the general public on how to report and identify severe weather phenomenon. Are our reports not good enough? Are we unworthy, that we lose use of most repeaters in the 70cm band? Don't they already have weather frequencies in the 162-163 MHz band?
I thought for sure that their purpose for training us insured more reliable reports and first-hand weather analysis. (By real live-people) However, it seems different now, at least to me...
Like: The NWS doesn't really care about what or how they receive weather information... they forget that hams, and the general public provide them with a "free resource and provide a free service," and that we often use "public property" in which anyone who passes an Amateur FCC test and receives a license has access, never-mind that most of their valued spotter information comes over systems that their equipment could potentially deem "illegal" and unusable.
"Dedicated amateur volunteers" is sounding more like something they may not receive from future Amateur Operators if they remove access to repeaters in the 440 band. (Almost all of the repeater input frequencies on our 440 band fall in their chosen spectrum! 448-450 MHz) I'll bet they really looked at ARRL band plans!
I recently spent well over a thousand dollars in purchasing and setting up 440 MHz repeater systems down here in "hurricane-prone" Florida to offer weather and help disseminate emergency communications and information, and welcomed Skywarn reporting. (NWS warnings occur on almost a daily basis during the hurricane season down here from hail, waterspouts, and hurricane warnings!) Now I find out that the input frequency 449 is the standard transmitted weather device frequency and that I, being a ham, cannot cause interference because we're secondary status if they receive their allocation!
I'd like them for once to "reward" us for the time and efforts of our Amateur Service volunteers by supporting us, recognizing our assets & allocations, and protecting our interests, as we do (or did) theirs, no matter what political "shenanigans" or red-tape the can bend. Sounds like we need to re-establish a memorandum with the NWS.
Your thoughts?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by WA4PTZ on March 28, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
From the discriptions in your article it appears
that you do not understand the purpose of the
"Wind Profiler" . You need to do some more
homework.
As for the NWS ....they are only taking
advantage of what is available. Get real! You know
that money and government have the power and not the
people. HAMS are insignificant to the government,
until they need us. They never learn from their
mistakes. They just keep repeating them.
73 - Tim
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by KA0MR on March 28, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think you will find that the frequencies that are best suited for the wind-profiling system they need to employ to get the results desired are around 449 MHz.
If you look at SETI and the frequencies they employ in their search ,much to lengthy to go into here but easily found, are 1.4 GHz. 1.4 GHz has certain properties relating to propagating distance is why it has been chosen as opposed to asking for a part of the 1.2 GHz ham band as they could if this was not a reason.
One would assume that frequency has great bearing for proper results to be expected so the line of thinking that the NWS merely is looking for available frequency and it is an arbitrary choice. I think not.
Surely for the positive contributions to society wind-profiling provides I am sure we as hams could accomodate them and we can adjust with guidance.
Bob KAØMR
|
| |
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by AA5TB on March 28, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
There was nothing "sneaky" about this. I remember reading a article in QST several years ago about this and its possible effects to amateur operation. If I remember correctly the antennas for this system will be pointed straight up and probably won't cause much problem anyway. It is their (the government) spectrum (70cm) already and we are secondary users to it. Complain too much and we may lose it all together! The government has historically worked very well with amateurs in sharing spectrum.
There is already a lot of government emissions on the 70cm band that most hams haven't even noticed so I wouldn't worry too much about this system.
Steve - AA5TB
|
| |
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by K1MKF on March 28, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Tis better to have a secondary allocation than no allocation at all. Besides, I would rather have it used by the government for some something worthy than buy a business to track packages, like 220!
|
| |
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by AG4HY on March 29, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The very reason i don't have any intension of getting involved in any of the "s" not homeland security, nws, ares, races, etc, etc,etc...
c.u
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by N0KFV on March 30, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think you'll be okay, unless you plan to install your repeater in close proximity to a major airport (which is where most wind profilers will be installed).
I try not to lose sight of the basic premises of Amateur Radio -- one being we have the opportunity to volunteer to help our communities.
In the long run, the tech. advances from the profilers will greatly enhance aircraft safety and supplement/improve the meteorolgical warning system.
73, Marc
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by W9WHE on March 31, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Let's not overestimate our actual value to society.
Time was, ham radio was the only backup to telephones...which were not allways available to begin with. Now, with cell phones, Sat phones, Satcomm, and the internet (which provides a redundant link for all these) we are alot less valuable. Time Hams faced that fact.
The millitary and society in general have become alot more sophisticated. The millitary now has world-wide communications as reliable as a 5 watt VHF HT within one mile of the other HT. Cellphones, which cover 90-95% (and growing) of the inhabited US are very reliable, and improving. Tri- mode cellphones increase this reliabillity by enabling a user to roam from a "down" service to one that is "up". Satelite linking and back up power for cell cites is increasingly common.
So....what makes you think Hams are so valuable? Oh, you say that you can erect a station from parts? Well, you might be surprised to learn that the Cell guys can do the same.
Don't shoot the messenger, but....as hard as it is to stomach....Hams are becomming less and less valuable as a resource.
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by K5MAR on April 1, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You said:
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
Reply by W9WHE on March 31, 2003
"Let's not overestimate our actual value to society."
"Time was, ham radio was the only backup to telephones...which were not allways available to begin with. Now, with cell phones, Sat phones, Satcomm, and the internet (which provides a redundant link for all these) we are alot less valuable. Time Hams faced that fact."
"The millitary and society in general have become alot more sophisticated. The millitary now has world-wide communications as reliable as a 5 watt VHF HT within one mile of the other HT. Cellphones, which cover 90-95% (and growing) of the inhabited US are very reliable, and improving. Tri- mode cellphones increase this reliabillity by enabling a user to roam from a "down" service to one that is "up". Satelite linking and back up power for cell cites is increasingly common."
"So....what makes you think Hams are so valuable? Oh, you say that you can erect a station from parts? Well, you might be surprised to learn that the Cell guys can do the same."
"Don't shoot the messenger, but....as hard as it is to stomach....Hams are becomming less and less valuable as a resource."
------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, we all saw what a great job city, state, & federal governments, along with cellular providers, did after 9/11 and the Columbia Tragedy. LOL!!
Quoting from the April 2003 issue of "CQ" magazine, the article titled "The Shuttle Tragedy" by Bob Josuweit - WA3PZO: "Amateur radio operators and their equipment have proven more reliable than the government-provided "alternate" communication systems imported to assist with operations. On day three of the search, 24 teams were sent into the field, 14 of which included hams. They were the only ones that performed reliably as required by the command post. FBI teams specifically requested amateur radio operators for their teams due to their excellent reliability and efficiency."
Yeap, gotta love those sat phones, trunking radios with DES encryption, and Nextel, et al cellphones! Gonna have to hang up the microphone! That is, until the next major emergency, when all that fancy technology fails to perform.
Mark Schneider - K5MAR
AEC, Payne County, Okla. ARES
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by KA0MR on April 1, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One thing negative about the strom spotters I gotta tell you is up here in Wichita we have three operators that have installed marien radar sets in thier vehicals and despite pointing out how illeagle that is per Part 80 and Part 97 they still refuse to remove them and operate with imputiny.And report to the RACES and ARES every storm we have and the ARES and RACES have been told they are illeage stations and they still utilize them for information, and these are not even usefule in nothing more than spotting objects. They couldn't interpret a tornado reflection with that type anyway.
But what does that say about hams and NWS storm spotting. To operate with imputiny despite how illeagal it is. And when they finally get nailed by the FCC they will probably lose there ham licenses. Just how much of this attitude prevails among the spotters?
Bob
|
| |
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by VE3FAX on April 1, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Regardless of the authors (K4III) postion regarding this subject, I at least give him points for showing an interst in protection of the bandplan and hobby. I have to admire his concern and voiced opinion. Better than not saying anything at all and just giving in to lack of control we all are facing in the battle against corporate Americas control of the Government...Wow..I cant believe I just said that..and I'm not even a socialist!
|
| |
|
NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by NE0P on April 2, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
by their interest in offering free "Skywarn Spotter" classes to train hams and the general public on how to report and identify severe weather phenomenon. Are our reports not good enough? Are we unworthy, that we lose use of most repeaters in the 70cm
Yes, unfortunately many of our weather spotting reports aren't good enough. I have lived in 2 areas where the local club lived for weather spotting, and I would actually tune in the nets now and then because they were great entertainment. In one location, one of the local hams got his car stuck in the mud. Suddenly the only important thing was getting his car out of the mud, and the severe weather was no longer important. ALso, the WX spotting bunch tends to spot tornados every 100 yards or so, when none exist. This kind of "Sky is falling" behavior will probably come back to bite us when no one believes their reports anymore and a tornado really hits.
My favorite is when the weather service on TV recommends that everyone take cover inside-what does the local club do? Go running outside towards the storm! WX spotting has been replaced with radar. It is time to move into the 21st century. Plus, if severe weather hits, you should already be taking cover. How does the knowledge that a twister is headed for your home change anything? You should already be taking cover. Might make you need to change your underwear, though.
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by WR8Y on April 4, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It just gets to me how so many hams somehow think that cellphones and the internet make the Amateur Radio Service no longer needed.
Cellphones and the internet are dependant on the public switched phone system. Here in Griffin, we have had numerous outages at work. We loose dial tone (but not 'battery'), and the DSL goes. One outage lasted over 3 hours. (We refer to Bellsouth as BS). During these outages, the boss said: "Now we know what it'll be like if the terrorists target the PSTN."
With my HF radio I only have to pick a frequency and I can communicate all over the U.S., and I don't need phone wires.
I work for the Motorola shop in Griffin, GA. Just last week the communications guy came in from a local Civil Air Patrol 'wing'. He was looking for an HF radio. Seems the CAP maintains an HF net! We spoke at length about HF radio (he is their communications guy, but knows little about radio, no one else wanted the job!)
As we spoke, and I put together what was going on, I said: "Looks like you're gettting ready for when the phones don't work." I was being a little sarcastic. He wasn't, and agreed that was part of the idea.
Some of you may not see the value of HF radio, and portable or mobile HF even more, but the CAP does. A lot of us do.
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by KC0JBJ on April 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Actually, while a little off topic, CAP communications are much more disciplined than Amateur Radio. CAP has had HF nets for as long as they have had communications capabilities (World War II?). They do pass important traffic to co-ordinate activities of their "Wings" (usually State-size groups comprised of dozens or hundreds of local Squadrons) and practice for emergency situations. They also have US-government mandated missions (Aerospace Education, Emergency Services, and Cadet Program) and use specific government (military) frequencies that DO NOT encroach on Ham frequencies or relegate Amateur Radio to secondary status.
Yes, they can use modified Amateur gear on those frequencies, but if you check their website you will see that NOT all ham gear is acceptable, and on HF in particular, the typical Kensucom/Yaesiwood rigs are required to use the optional frequency stability accessories. And pretty soon most of the ham 2-meter gear will NOT be acceptable for CAP VHF use because they are going to a new NTIA super-narrowband FM standard that only more expensive commercial-type equipment can meet. Usually, the individual CAP member provides for this radio out of his/her own pocket, and is subject to potential government requisition (yes, conscription for radios!) just for the priveledge of using it in CAP operation.
CAP is an "Auxiliiary of the U.S. Air Force", which puts it squarely between military Rerserve/National Guard forces and private volunteer groups, like the Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. The only other group with a similar designation is the Coast Guard Auxiliary, who is a much smaller organization, of mostly aging power boat owners, and is mainly concerned with boating safety. CAP regularly practices Search and Rescue techniques, both on the ground and in the air, requiring regular use of trained, highly disciplined and capable radio communicators.
While you may belittle this volunteer's knowledge of radio technology, please respect his willingness to give of his time and energy (and usually money)in serving his country in a strictly volunteer capacity.
A Former CAP Senior Member,
KCØJBJ
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by WR8Y on April 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
That explains why, when he bought the radio and brought it back for modification, he also had the high stability oscillator for it as well.
I knew some CAP guys back in Michigan but they never mentioned HF (although then may not have known the term.)
My remarks about his lack of knowledge WERE NOT meant to be disrespectful, on the contrary, were meant to simply indicate he was willing to help when others weren't.
|
| |
|
RE: NWS: Friend or Foe?
|
|
|
by RADIOWEENIE on May 8, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
There are LOTS and LOTS of radios with 440 MHz transmitters in them. SCADS of them! Dual banders are by far the most popular and most heavily used amateur radios in North America. Will all these HAMS with dual banders and 44O MHz monobanders bought with their hard-earned money just "up and quit"? Surely none of them will get mad enough to protest by means of using 449 MHz input to protest, express contempt, or even defiance now, would they? Why doesn't the NWS pick the CB band-- or the "freeband" from 27.5 to 28.0 MHz? Same or similar reason? Here I am reminded of a question posed by one HAM on this board who addressed the issue of the modulation of the fundamental 60 Hz frequency carried by powerlines by means of superposing 80 MHz of digitized signals thereupon for the purpose of using these lines as a vehicle for wireless internet. He wondered: "What would happen if you directed a KW HF signal from a beam to one of these power lines?" The NWS is clearly asking for trouble by creating such a problem on this 440 MHz band issue. 449 MHz is but their first choice. There ARE frequencies above that which are NOT being used: what about 451 MHz (or thereabouts)? How about the NWS going ANYWHERE ELSE in the high bands BESIDES heavily used amateur allocations of long standing? And PLEASE: Let's not hear any more about how worthless and unimportant amateur radio spectrum is to the federal government in general or to the FCC in particular! Even if such should prove to be case-- then realize that we are a group of 750K people-- and it is certainly well PAST time to take that "unimportant detail" and make it MORE important to them!
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
BPL: The Better Broadband?
Kiss 33cm (900 MHz) Goodbye?
FCC Proposes Wide-Ranging Changes to Amateur Radio Service Rules:
FRS Channel 1 -- Important Follow-Up
One Ham's Week in the Oregon Storms
Other Regulatory Articles
Bandwidth versus Keying Speed
Fact or Fallacy?
HFA Spotlights ARRL Board Meeting
Kiss 33cm (900 MHz) Goodbye?
Group Lists 'Antenna Allies' In Congress
|
