Why I am not Going to Dayton
George J. Schnepf (KE2IV)
on
May 11, 2003
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This won't be a long article.
It is simply the few, but important, reasons why I will not be going to the Dayton Hamvention this year - or perhaps ever again!
Frankly, it comes down to toilets!
The Hara Arena is a pit! I have never, ever been to a major show or convention other than Dayton's Hamvention that has been so overcrowded and disgusting for its attendees! If not on Friday, then certainly by Saturday A.M. the place is rank with odors of too many bodies, too much cheap and greasy food and the most disgusting of all - the stench of overflowing toilets!
The plumbing in the place is incapable of hadling the crowds. It is a SARS waiting to happen!
To the good folks of the DARC - please MOVE IT out of HARA!
If that means it has to go to another nearby city - please support that!
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by AA8LL on May 11, 2003
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Against my better judgment, I have decided to respond to this post. I am a member of the Dayton Amateur Radio Association but I am not active in the club and I am not involved with Hamvention. The main reason is that I am not willing to invest the large amount of time required for these projects.
That being said, I feel Hamvention is a fabulous event and I wouldn’t miss it for the world. The organization required to put on an event like this is monumental. Hara Arena has seen better days but it is near and familiar and willing to put up with us. Moving all the volunteer labor even 50 miles for a 3-day show would be monumental.
DARA is a fairly large group and it would be difficult to come up with changes that the group has not already considered. Hamvention is what it is!
So please come to Hamvention, enjoy yourself, and save your complaints for antenna restrictions and spectrum encroachment.
73, Wade AA8LL
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N3HKN on May 11, 2003
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Yes, complaints against icons of the hobby should be restricted to private conversations in closed venues. Such open hostility toward something that has become an essential element of the hobby is outrageous. As in all our "new ways of politically correct life" it is only proper to utter positive comments keeping negative thoughts to oneself. Surely something such as "stench" is a subject that has nothing to do with Ham Radio and should be treated elsewhere-preferably with chlorine.
George Orewell
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N3HKN on May 11, 2003
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Yes, complaints against icons of the hobby should be restricted to private conversations in closed venues. Such open hostility toward something that has become an essential element of the hobby is outrageous. As in all our "new ways of politically correct life" it is only proper to utter positive comments keeping negative thoughts to oneself. Surely something such as "stench" is a subject that has nothing to do with Ham Radio and should be treated elsewhere-preferably with chlorine.
George Orewell
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K8LQ on May 11, 2003
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Columbus Ohio, State Fair grounds...many buildings for many exhibits, weather issues would not matter. PARKING RIGHT ON THE GROUNDS...next to the buildings...carry those boatanchors right out to you car...no buses or long lines to those buses....hallelujah!
Bring it to the fairgrounds in late April. Need I say more?
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Why I am Going to Dayton
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by WD8MGO on May 11, 2003
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I have been attending Hamvention since 1983. Why don't the owners of HARA simply shut down for a year and rebuild? Update all facilities and emergency exits and anything else thats needs upgrading. If HAMVENTION is so important this would seem to be the next LOGICAL step? It seems that those individuals connected with HAMVENTION would view a rebuild as a reason for staying at HARA in the future. Forever DAYTON HAMVENTION?
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W8VKD on May 11, 2003
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I remember going to Hara Arena for rock concerts in the early 70's, and the place hasn't changed in 32 years! I am sure that if DARA wanted to change the situation or venue they could. I would suggest a partnering with the Wright -Patterson AFB and the AF Museum there. I am sure this could be feasable and would be a dynamite combination. The massive Tarmac availble there would provide superb flea-market space and porta-johns would be easier to locate. It's just a thought. What say you?
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WA7CC on May 11, 2003
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I made my first trip to the Dayton Hamvention last year and I remember thinking what a health and fire hazard the Hara Arena seemed to be.
If anyone is counting votes, I'd be more likely to return if Hara's facilities were improved or if a better location could be found.
I must say that I had a good time in spite of Hara, the rain, and not winning a door prize!
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RE: Forget Dayton lets go to Columbus!!!!!!!!!
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by K8LQ on May 11, 2003
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Columbus Ohio, State Fair grounds...many buildings for many exhibits, weather issues would not matter. PARKING RIGHT ON THE GROUNDS...next to the buildings...carry those boatanchors right out to your car...no buses or long lines to those buses....hallelujah!
Bring it to the fairgrounds (inside buildings)... late April. Forget the outdoor freezing rain fun.
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WR6S on May 11, 2003
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I first attended DAYTON in 1998. Then again in 99. Due to several reasons,i have not attended since,but will attempt to next year. My first thought at seeing all those swap tables was that i was in heaven. After swapping a bit, i decided ot ship some of the stuff. First mistake. The line was long,the people were miserable and the surcharges were unfair. However this is probably no fault of the clubs. After my first fun filled day,and im being serious,it was AWESOM!, i remember thinking to myself,what A Miserable Place! I mean i was appaled that what i had invisioned as the meca of radio,was in such a state of human unfriendly disrepair. It was miserable for me,and i am pretty young as the ham populatin goes. I remember seeing some old timers that were in obvious discomfort due to the stifling heat and humidity and saturation of the air. It was making me ill. After the first night,i was very happy to have been there,but the conditions were just appaling. I was in shock as to how the arena stayed in business. If it werent fo rthe love of the hobby,and it being the "only game in town" i would not see the show surviving,based soley on the conditions. I can not stress enough how uncomfortable it was, and my dismay.
Now,this does not detract from the HUGE amount of work that goes into putting a show like that on. I know the club and its workforce put in a amount of work that woudl shock most of us. I know that if there were an easy place to move to,maybe they would have done it long ago. Maybe now is the time to get to a place with more lodging,better facilities,and start a NEW show that will attract twice the amount of hams. Yes i believe it is time for a change for the better,and BIGGER!. However,i would gladly put up with even worse,to attend the biggest ham event in the world. So the some of you out there that say "suck it up"..well i have,and i dont think it should be that way. WE are the customers,and the SHOW is for US. Just a thought,maybe the show should be commercialised and run by a professional org? [Not saying the club was unprofessional,saying that they are not payed...:0 ] Oh well, i imagine i would slog to the end sof the earth and put up with anything to be amongst a group of hams that big,see all the new cool stuff,listen to the seminars,meet new people,forge friendships,eyeball old ones,and have a sheer blast in the best hobby of the world,p
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Why I will go to Dayton
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by N0TONE on May 11, 2003
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You youngsters just don't know how good you have it.
Not so long ago - the 1960s - the governement-provided roadside rest stops had holes in the ground for restroom facilities.
The crowds in Dayton and the general maintenance of the facility isn't bad - it's just not the sparkling tall shiny steel buildings that today's younger workers have come to expect. It's clearner and better smelling than many of the automobile factories that I do some of my consulting in. The arena itself is in better repair than many of the buildings that government research is performed in.
Compared to travel in many foreign countries, it's downright sanitary.
To declare you're not going because of the bathrooms is a confession that you're very narrowly US-minded.
Fact is, there is no other single event where you can get such a thorough view of EVERYTHING that's happening in ham radio. The good stuff and the ugly stuff.
I'm always disappointed to see how poorly we age. I go to lots of events that have a higher average age than in ham radio. But the ham events have more attendees on motorized carts, or who are so obese they can't walk much. Very sad.
I'll be there, and most of you will probably see me there.
AM
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KD3JF on May 11, 2003
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Why don't you quit your whinning and go to Dayton and have a good time.
Pearly
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WA4PTZ on May 11, 2003
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Since obtaining my ticket in 1976, I have been to
Dayton 14 times. I had fun each time, some more than
others. About 1995 I began to notice the adds for
the Shelby NC hamfest, on Labor Day weekend, and
decided to go. Brother, am I glad. In my oppinion,
Shelby has Dayton beat all to Hell. Dayton has
never been a 'fest for the people. It has always
been a money maker for the business of Dayton and
each year they came up with new ways to gouge the
pariticipants. From rediculous parking fees to the
infamous "Tarp Tax". I was something new each year.
The steady decline of attendance at Dayton is proof
of the self defeating attitude of the folks of both
DARA and Dayton. So, hence forth I shall attend
SHELBY. It may be hot, but it's friendly and you
get discounts from the area merchants as well as
better treatment. Try it ....you'll like it.
As a disclaimer , I am not a member of the Shelby
club, nor do I or have I ever lived in North
Carolina. See ya' at Shelby.
73 - Tim
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by AB0UK on May 11, 2003
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Combine the Hamvention with Ham-Com in Arlington, Texas. Ham-Com seems to be the second largest in the USA and the organizers have a good track record. The facility is great, parking and hotels are fine. The area has frequent major events so the locals are not out to make their years liveihood in one weekend. The location is more central and the weather is better. If Hamvention moves from Dayton most likely DARA will cease to be a factor in its support. Move it to a group that has been putting togather a good show for over 40 years.
73,
Jim, AB0UK
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W9PMZ on May 11, 2003
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Well this year I have a commitment with the Boy Scouts. Seems that they have a Camporee in Dayton to celebrate the 100th Anniversery Of Flight at Wright Patterson AFB. Interesting coincidence.....
But,
Food is over priced and lousy (made my son ill last year),
Restrooms are the pits (but as some one else pointed out, they are better than the ones I've used in China),
Flea Market is great, but for some reason seems the same junk is still there that I first saw in 1972,
Over crowding is a lawsuit just waiting to happen in our litigous society,
Parking is a pain and overpriced especially in the rain,
For a facility that hasn't improved one darn bit in 30 years, I just can't imagine why the tickets are so pricy as compared to 1972,
On the other hand I still enjoy going to see old friends. If it weren't for that it isn't worth going.....
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W8CAR on May 11, 2003
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I'm sorry you won't be there. I go to Dayton to see friends, sell and buy radios and 'stuff' have a beer or three and generally have a good time by being totally imersed in ham radio. I don't really love Hara Arena but then I'm a Browns fan and went to the "old" Muny stadium where you had HUGE lines at the Johns and usually ended up using the floor(becasue it was already awash). I don't usually spent but a few minutes in the head anyway!I was there to watch fottball and was willing to pu up with the inconvience. Would it be better in Columbus? I doubt it-there are always trade offs!
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K1MKF on May 11, 2003
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Well, I have to admit this is the funniest thread on eHam in a while. Dayton and Hara coexist for one reason - they make money. As long as people are willing to pay it will survive.
I've never been to Dayton but after attending several smaller Hamfests I have come to the conclusion that the stench of sweaty men or inadequate latrines probably does not offend the mainstream HAM. As my mother used to say - take a shower, get a haircut and put on a clean shirt!
As for those of you who dare to speak openly against the mecca of Ham radio - How dare you! Don't you know that an open market in some third world country would be glad to have the Hara Arena. Of course they could only pay 5 cents to enter and then have nothing left to spend inside.
It would seem to me that a National Organization such as the ARRL should run the premier Ham radio event and even make money on it. I doubt they would chose Hara or anywhere near Dayton.
MarkF
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W3JXP on May 11, 2003
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I agree the bathrooms are the pits! I have chron's desease and going sometimes is not something that can be put off. But I do have one advantage over most, I have no sense of smell! One of the drugs I take for the chron's took away my sense of smell, so there is no stink for me, but it still looks bad.
But I will be going to Dayton for all 3 days again this year. Its great fun and good place to buy a new rig. I'm going to pick up 2 FT1000mp mark V fields this year so the dealers will love me if only for a little while.
John W3JXP
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KE9IY on May 11, 2003
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I fully agree with the original poster. I have been to Hamvention 4 times. Every time by the second day I was asking myself , "Why am I here"? I have not been since 93. It is an AWFUL venue. It's too small, It stinks. Parking is a bad joke. As is the whole city of Dayton. Needless to say, unless and until they change the place and time I will never go again. It is not worth it. Wise up DARA, you are going down the drain, that is if they can ever get it unclogged.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N7JI on May 11, 2003
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While I agree with the original poster regarding the toilets, food, and such, I have a few simple ideas that might make life easier:
1) use the porta-johns if you don't like the facilities
2) park down at the Salem Mall and take the bus up the hill
3) even better, take the hotel shuttle to the arena - door to door for $2/day is quite a bargain
4) there's a pretty good Chinese restaurant about halfway between Hara and the Mall - about 15 minutes by foot - which shouldn't bother you as you're walking all day anyway
5) new idea: pack your OWN snacks, drinks, and lunch!
6) hit the inside areas when it's NOT raining, not when it is (as all 30,000 people are crammed indoors during this time!)
7) find something to do in the evenings - attend special events thrown by groups such as DX, VHF, QRP, contesting, or someone else - or even go to the Grand Banquet and see a free concert
8) stay until all prizes have been drawn!
9) stay until Sunday afternoon to pick up the last of the "before I go home" deals
Following such rules can make Dayton a very enjoyable experience.
Scott N7JI - Dayton attendee every year from 1992-2001
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WA2JJH on May 11, 2003
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Have not been there in 10 years.
MY TOP TEN LIST.....
1)Food..overpriced, GOT TO WAIT 15 minutes for a $5 hotdog. If you barf it up, they will not replace it!
2)No more super good deals. In the old days I would fly down, and make $10,000.
3)A couple of people that have ripped me off. It is for thier safety, I do not go! I would love to Crack Peter's head wide open with a tire iron, then watch him bleed to death slowly under the moon light! One of His ex business partner's is in jail for 15-life!
4)Too much area to cover. Timonium is much closer and has more deals per van parked!
5)Does anybody REALLY go to the FM bash.
6)Did not book a hotel room a year in advance.
7)Do not have to deal with hams, that after I get a good deal will follow me and over me $5 less than what I piad for it.
8)The filthy portosans from woodstock 69.
9)More filthy portosans
10)The long drive home in traffic! The traffic is due to people that buy Gunn diose radar detector testors.
Last time I went many gunn diode transmitters/ testers were sold. Took 5 hours alone to get out of OHIO!
Thats my top 10!
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N6AJR on May 12, 2003
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I physically can go, (long story) But here is my advice. If you don't like it, then become one of "them" and change it. Become a volunteer with the club and work to change it from the inside. He who puts in the most time controls the club. ya don't like it, join it and change it. just my 2 cents.. 73 tom N6AJR
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by NO8D on May 12, 2003
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The management of the Hamvention surely sees the handwriting on the wall and wants to do something about the drop in attendance. If you haven't noticed, they have removed the name of the location from the name. This is an important move and opens the horizon to other opportunities and venues.
As others have pointed out, they are no longer the only large Ham show; but need to compete with other shows around the country which may be located in better buildings with better parking and other facilities.
Perhaps, we need to consider that we need to upgrade the face that we present to the new Ham and also the rest of the world. Putting the show in a new, efficient, clean location would be a good step in that direction.
In my opinion, Columbus would be an excellent choice.
See you at Dayton!
Paul, NO8D
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N8EMR on May 12, 2003
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Ohio state fair grounds would make a greate place for it. I can handle 100000/day for the fair I think they can handle the hamvention. More Hotels in Columbus than dayton, A few more flights in and out of Port Columbus.
The fairgrounds gives you more space both inside and outside, on site parking, Onsite camping. Only thing is its not in dayton, but Heck Even Dara has dropped Dayton from Dayton hamvention.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K4TBN on May 12, 2003
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Is is true that the Hara Arena only costs $.79 to rent for the entire weekend? If so, that's a fair price.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W4ZY on May 12, 2003
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Bathrooms are not just a problem at Dayton. I do not understand why some folks were either never raised properly or never learned to care about their personal habits. If all of us would just use common sense and courtesy, perhaps the rest rooms would not be so fragrant. Unfortunately, the attitude of 'let someone else clean up after me' seems to prevail. One has to wonder how their bathrooms are at home.
73, Bob W4ZY Woodbridge, VA
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Why I am Going to Dayton
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by WD8MGO on May 12, 2003
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I believe the location at the Fort Wayne Colesium for the Fort Wayne Hamfest was upgraded. I have not been at that fest in several years. But the last time I was there it had large clean hall along with clean bathrooms and ample parking. Why can't HAMVENTION do the same? If HAMVENTION were a home owner their house would be a hazard! That is why I spend as little time inside compared to the Flea Market. At least if a tragedy would occur I can freely roam compared to those who herd on the inside. I believe it is accident only waiting to happen with fatal consequences. Again, monitor HAMVENTION COMMUNICATIONS FREQUENCIES.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K4SFC on May 12, 2003
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I've been to Dayton Hamvention three times, but no more. Most of the complaints are from those of us whose incomes are less than $50,000 p.a.(my opinion)or age sixty or over. If you can afford to stay three days, you can take the time to park somewhere else and take the bus. You can also make other arrangements for your bathroom needs.
But you cannot stop the rain, the overcrowding, or how to carry the rig you just purchased, for the rest of the day until the bus leaves.
The biggest and best "Hamfest" I've ever attended, was in Friedrichshafen, Germany. Dayton will never be as good as that one.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N8PPZ on May 12, 2003
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Yes I agree with what many people have said. Hara Arena is a dump. However just because it is a dump doesn't mean hamvention is any less fun.
I believe people truely make their own experience. If someone sets out and says, "Why am I here?" then they were pre-destined to not enjoy themselves, instead of looking at all the things that are right at hamvention, they choose to focus on the negatives.
Other venues have been looked at, but because the club wants to keep the flea market as well as inside exibits Hara is the only choice. There are many things Hara has other venues do not, nearby parking, both offsite and onsite, enough room for the flea market as well as inside exhibits.
Some other venues that have been looked at in the past are Wright State Nutter Center, University of Dayton Arena, (before it was torn down) Riverfront Stadium in Cincy.
Take Nutter Center for instance, it has plenty of parking, it is a fairly new structure that is state of the art, however it is 1/3 of the size of Hara so many indoor venders would not be able to attend and it is very very exspensive to rent, while it has plenty of parking there is not enough room to both have onsite parking and a flea market. Some people have suggested a "Split site" have inside exhibits at one venue and the flea market at another. TO do this shuttle busses would have to run between venues, and their would have to be plenty of parking at both.
There are other shows that are using nicer facilities, and thats cool. But to put on the size of show Hamvention is there really is only one choice in the area, and granted I like everyone else would like Hara to remodel. The only way to do this is for everyone to make their voice heard to NOT hamvention staff, but to the managment of Hara.
As far as bathrooms being filthy, ask yourself when you look at it "why do tickets price keep going up?" Somebody has to clean that crap up.
Since the economy is in the tank, costs for everything from busses (the bus company DARA usually uses went bankrupt) so they had to go to Chicago to have busses brought in at the cost of over $30,000 JUST FOR shuttle busses. In the wake of terrosim threats security had to be increased to follow homeland security guidelines of one officer for every 100 patrons, somebody has to pay for that. With attendence diminishing Hamvention is lucky to break even after all the bills are paid. For hamvention to be around another 5 years is optimistic at best in it's present size. Maybe a smaller, scaled back show would be looked at.
So it all boils down to a simple question, "Is havmention something hams want to attend?" If so the show will continue for many years to come. If not, then hamvention will pass into just aother memory of a dying hobby.
Dayton needs hamvention, hamvention needs hara, hara needs hamvention, amatuer radio needs hamvention.
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Smaller if Better!!!!
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by WD8MGO on May 12, 2003
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I have to disagree with a recent poster.
I will never agree that Amateur Radio needs HAMVENTION!
Amateur Radio will long outlive HAMVENTION. Should this be HAMVENTION's destiny.
On the contrary, I believe that the smaller more managed fests such as the OLDEST in Ohio ...meaning Findlay is better for its size.
I get very fed up with those who say "don't criticize HAMVENTION". What is this PC?
Are we living in a Facist and or Communist state within Amateur Radio? Where warm glowing comments are only heard(sounds like "1984" where nothing is as it seems).
I used to be a DARA member many years ago. Truly a waste of then $9.00 membership.
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K8LQ on May 12, 2003
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K7LA: Move the event to Columbus.
de K8LQ: Move the event to Columbus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why I am not Going to Dayton (I AM!!!!!)
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by KC8IMB on May 12, 2003
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Here's my 1.5 cents. I agree that this is something that is degrading to talk about. There are many other pressing issues facing amateur radio, say, IT'S EXTINCTION!
I plan on going to Hamvention (make sure you don't say Dayton though, they took it out). I agree that Hara has seen it's better days. This shouldn't discourage attendees. My wife and I plan on going along with friends that are not amateurs but are interested (partly BECAUSE of Hamvention). We need to show our support of the hobby now! Look at it this way, at least Hara is willing to take us in. And about the buses, if you don't like the lines park at Salem and walk. It's a decent neighborhood and there's usually a constant stream of amateurs to keep you company.
73’s and see you there!
Zack – KC8IMB
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by RAD1OMAN on May 12, 2003
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Hara Arena is a pig sty, it has always been a pig sty, and as long as it remains in the family control, it will be a pig sty. The place meets fire code only because the fire department rides them pretty hard, and is very hard on the hamvention vendors, to the point that I have to wonder if the City/Village of Trotwood would rather see the Arena closed and the hamvention go somewhere else, taking all that tax money with the hamvention.
Dayton milks the hams and them hamvention for all they can get and they still want more. DARA sees dollars signs, both inbound and outbound.
If the hamvention were to move to Columbus, DARA would loose control, at least, it would be more difficult for DARA to hold control, this would not bode well for DARA and the inbound dollars. DO not look for the hamvention to move out of Dayton, and if the arena was ever torn down, the hamvention ould go away.
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RE: Why I am Going to Dayton
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by RADIOWEENIE on May 12, 2003
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WD8MGO--
I attended Ft. Wayne this year. Was VERY pleasantly surprised. It was the 2nd best Hamfest i have ever attended.
--RW
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by ab9ps on May 12, 2003
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I have read some, not all of the replies. To me this is an appropriate topic for the forum and the original complaint is quite reasonable. I have a mobility handicap and also take lasix. The combination makes a site without clean toilets off limits for me.
However, the real reason I won't be attending is that my priorities for disposable funds is otherwise. A used ICOM 735 to let this retread get on HF for the first time since my novice days (1959) means more to me.
PGS
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WA0ZZG on May 12, 2003
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1. If it was moved it to Columbus, would it be put on
by CARA?
2. If you were going to a bar, would you like to
go to one that is very popular, maybe crowded, but
has the reputation for being the place for a good
time? Or to one that is an unknown, maybe you
won't know the way. Few others do. You may be
disappointed. But lots of room.
Our minds are wired for crowded bars, crowded
churches,crowded buses, and I guess crowded hamfests.
Dave...
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K3ESE on May 12, 2003
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This'll be my first trip to Hamvention. I am PSYCHED!!! Can't wait. The food/facilities aren't even on my radar screen.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W8OB on May 12, 2003
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I am not going to Dayton again this year because it always falls on a poor time of the year for me. Being in the construction business Dayton falls on one of the busiest times and I just can not get away for it. The thought of being in a crowded smelly space with comodes overfilling is not a real turn on either. Take heart though guys and gals Dayton is not the only place you run into this. My wife used to peddle homebrew woodcrafts at peddler shows all over the state of Mich. Being the nice person I am I got to come along and be a gofer for her. Same rotten stomach turning food at those shows as well as porta potties over filled and so bad even the flies wouldn't hang around. I am very happy she got out of that hobby.
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WB2WIK on May 12, 2003
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If the Hamvention moved to a newer venue that could still hold as many people (for outdoor swap sellers as well as indoor vendors), I'd be glad to go again.
I attended "Dayton" from 1973 through 1988, fifteen years in a row without missing one, but have only been back sporadically since. I don't miss the lousy rest room facilities, at all. Or the crowding or the poor food services which leave you pretty much standing up to eat.
Sometimes, change is good. I attended lots of Lakers games at the Great Western Forum, and thought that when Staples Center opened, it wouldn't be the same. I was completely right: It's not the same, it's a million times better. Bigger, brighter, cleaner, with more rest rooms (and much cleaner ones!) and way more places to eat far better food. I don't miss the Forum at all, now.
Hopefully, a venue change for the Hamvention will be as good.
WB2WIK/6
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WN3VAW on May 12, 2003
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Hamvention existed before the move to the HARA Arena.
Hamvention will no doubt exist despite the Arena.
Hey, no argument here:
-- the Arena is the pits and is in major need of overhaul.
-- the general parking situation continues to degrade
-- the food is like that at all similar venues: Overpriced and poor quality
But:
-- I ignore the Arena, I go for the people and the events, no the facilities
-- Parking can be handled if you know how (no, I'm not giving away any secrets here!)
-- Bring a sandwich and a couple of bottles of water and some bags of snacks. Or walk down to the mall (or take the shuttle bus to the mall).
Short term, I suspect that Hamvention will remain at HARA for another year or three while DARA looks at their options. Long term, I suspect Hamvention stands a good chance (unless HARA mends their ways) of QSY'ing to one of the nearest large cities... Cincinnatti or Columbus. I'm hoping for Columbus, it's an hour nearer to Pittsburgh (even if it is home to Ohio State... oh well)
See you at Hamvention Friday or Saturday!
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KC8JX on May 12, 2003
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Why am I not going to Dayton? Well, two reasons this year. First, my daughter is graduating from Hi School, so I am going to be attending several of her senior events over the next several weeks. Second, it's more fun to go with friends, than by yourself. Since they are not able to go this year neither am I (just as well, because of #1 reason).
If my daughter were not a senior and if my friends were going, would I? You bet. What an event. Hamvention. Everytime I've gone it's been fun. The facilities may not be "the greatest", the food may not be the "least expensive ever", the parking may be not optimum, the HARA may be old, the bathrooms may at times be crowded, the inside exhibits may be crowded....but I love every minute I'm there. I enjoy it with my friends; I love it when a first timer goes and their mouth drops open; I love the discussions around the dinner/breakfast/lunch & any time table. I love the company and the ham radio talk.
I do go to other hamfests in the greater Indiana/Michigan area....very blessed in this midwest area with many good hamfests throughout the year....some areas of the country are not so blessed. Ft. Wayne being perhaps the best after Dayton....but Hamvention is still king. If it were held elsewhere, but close to Dayton, I'd probably go....depends upon where it's held. No matter where, putting on something of this magnatude takes enormous energy & a great club to support it. I for one salute DARA...I've not faulted them once. This is a big project to put on. The fact that some complain I can understand that...nothing is perfect. Make constructive suggestions realizing that not everything you suggest may happen. Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a solution.
Next year, 2004, I'm ready to go.
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RE: Why I am Going to Dayton
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by KB8ASO on May 12, 2003
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I have been going to the DAYTON Hamvention since I was 16 years young (I'm 39 now) and I have not missed a single show. Things have IMPROVED over the years. I have been stuck in the mud and had to be towed out (Paid for the Hamvention, Thanks!) That parking lot is now the expanded fleamarket area. Since they moved the date from April to May the weather has been better. Remember the show several years ago it rained all three days? The fleamarket was a total loss. As for the bathrooms, if you can't hit the hole, pick up the paper after yourselves, and can't use the toilet without pooping on the seat, please stay home and do those things in your own house where you can wallow in your own filth if you wish to. I do not. It is still the best show in a reasonable distance from where I live and will go there until either it or I am no more.
Randy AB9GO
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by VE3GXR on May 12, 2003
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Dayton is fading. Little by little Ham Radio is fading.
The causes are in front of you at every hamfest. Count the grey/bald heads, then count the young people.
The hobby is losing hams by the silent key route far below the rate of replacement from the young end.
Hams join young...or not at all.(unless they are a crackpot religious group that wants a free transmitter licence for their 'ruin the native's beliefs' mission in some poor country).
The exodus started a while ago, when the old fart league kept morse code an ongoing requirement to use as a barrier to entry of more hams. They did not want more hams = crowding. So Japan made a code free licence and soon had millions of hams and built a portable radio industry around them, and then exported it to ruin Drake and the other US makers who lacked the Japanese huge domestic market to fund their development costs.
Exit US radio makers. Exit all the surplus parts from US radio makers, Exit many home built rigs.
Now what has that to do with Dayton? Well, look and see why Dayton was a success.
Early Hamfest.
In center of large area of many hams.
Good large area for fleas and a nice indoor area
Well orgainzed.
Been there forever.
That's all it has going for it, and that was enough to make if grow year after year until about 1990, then it started to die. Cel phones and the internet did it in, cut off the incoming young people.
A slow bleeding death of 1000 cuts and 100,000 silent keys, year by year going quiet with none to stand where they stood.
No point in trying to move it to Columbus, you would have to shoot every member of the Dayton ARA and they are well armed.
No point in starting a new one. hamfests are dying all over the world as ham radio dies.
Like the pony express it's time has passed. We living fossils(I am 64) are becoming silent keys in ever increasing numbers, and our kids and grand kids have zero interest. They are on the web, messaging etc. Come to think of it, so am I, and the web is a very good replacement for ham radio, so I for one do not lament the transition. The world evolves, things pass, we and ham radio will pass. Reminds me of the wiffenpoof song,
I might attend Dayton. A 10 hour drive from Toronto, for old friends, just to see if Karski, and Bleiman, and Bowman, and Hokannson, and Levitt, and Albinger, and surplus Al, and a shrinking number of old friends are still standing.
While memory serves.
Bill Jackson VE3GXR
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KU8R on May 12, 2003
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This subject like so many others has received a lot of comments. Some right on, some way out in left field. I will agree that the rest room facilities are less that adquate....But let us look at the REAL problem. These restrooms do not get messed up all by them selves. The stench comes from sub-human amateur radio operators. Seemingly Ham Radio Operators are not able to determine if the toilet seat is up down. If it is down just go ahead and take leak all over it....it's not yours, and after all you have no need to use the seat at the present anyway. If you dont get close enough to the commode and dribble on the floor...so what, you dont have to clean up your mess. Let some other poor slob do your dirty work. And then there is the guy that hasn't had a bowel movement in a month and his breath proves it. He decides he stop up the toilet. Go ahead and run it over , you do have to clean up you mess. Besides...I paid for my ticket to get in here and I'll make a mess if I want too. We always blame it on someone else. Comment #2. Someone made a statement that D.A.R.A. was a large club. You might be suprised to know that many pay there dues to be associated with a large SO-CALLED club...but in fact there are only a handful of workers that actually put the needed hours into making this thing go. I was a member of D.A.R.A. for years till I got fed up with the politics of the club.I ran the flee market for several years and served as vice president. Things have changed over the years but one fact remains the same. Everbody bitches but nobody jumps in to help. Most folks think that the Hamvention is making tons of money. If most people really new the financial statis of this club, you would wonder how HAMVENTION comes about every year. Yes it does have problems......but WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO SEE THAT THE TRADITION CONTINUES!!!!! If Dayton is so bad why does attendance continue to grow????? HUH?
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KB5TBB on May 12, 2003
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Sure, HARA is a dump. The food isn't worth the wait in line. Mother Nature never fails to give us a little rain. There aren't any super-duper deals on used gear. The toilets stink to high-heaven! Hotel rooms aren't being given away (if so, let me know!).
BUT there is always frozen cheesecake on a stick AND Waffle House!!! Wal-Mart sells throw-away emergency ponchos for $0.50. The potty part is a little gross but that's why we have TP....
This is one "youngster" who is making the trip and looking forward to it. It's my opportunity to unite with what few other youngsters who are head-over-heels for our hobby. This marks year 5 for me.
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N2MG on May 12, 2003
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I don't see a big difference between Dayton and lots of other arena events. Bad, overpriced food can be dealt with - when I go to Dayton, I get a sandwich (or one's makings) and bottled water offsite beforehand. Most hamfests don't have th edeals they used to have. Overworked toilets, smelly crowds are consistent with ham fests, computer shows and other events. Dayton/HARA is suffering from its popularity as well as its age.
I generally hang out with the contesters who are a much better smelling bunch in general. There are some exceptions. ;-)
Mike N2MG
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N1VLQ on May 12, 2003
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I'm not going simply due to family and work obligations. But I hope to go some year. Despite (or in spite of) the conditions. And I'm one of the "younger" hams... OK, so I'll be 40 this year, but it seems that qualifies as younger these days, at least as far as ham radio is concerned. Enjoy the event, those of you that are going, and those of you that aren't, have some other kind of fun. As long as you're having fun. Cuz that's what it's all about.3
73
Bruce, N1VLQ
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N2BR on May 13, 2003
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A Word to think about!
1.If your going to Dayton to just Bitch,Stay home take the xyl out for a nice dinner or shopping or bitch at her.
2.For everyone that going to Dayton,Guys have fun i wish i could join you this year.
3.For those that bitch about the smell etc,You must be city boys couse us old country boys are use to the outside Johns and what goes with them!
My 5 Cents
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KC8LGL on May 13, 2003
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Sounds like SARSville to me....NO thanks
Best of luck to everyone !!!!
KC8LGL, LOCATED A 45 MINUTE DRIVE AWAY
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RE: When in Dayton...
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by KE4IZA on May 13, 2003
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I have been a ham for 9 years now. My primary hobby was computers thus I have been to far more computer shows. Every event has its share of rude and loud people with questionable hygiene. Just go and enjoy yourself and ignore the bad. Your are only there for a day .... Not your whole life.
Jim - KE4IZA
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KG6AMW on May 13, 2003
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Move it to San Diego and give the spouse and kids another reason to go than just ham radio, dirty bathrooms and midwest weather.
KG6AMW
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N5TIF on May 13, 2003
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HI ALL
For many its to far and to coastly to go. Need to move it closer to the middle of the country. Say Kansas or Oklahoma. But if it stays at Dayton maybe I could make it when i retire in 25 years.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by K5UJ on May 13, 2003
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I have to admit the original poster has a point. Anyone who has ever been to a professional trade show or association conference will probably cringe a little at the Hara Arena for the first time. I found it kind of embarrassing. Of course it would be ridiculous to expect carpet everywhere, lots of marble, chandeliers and uniformed attendants providing coffee, ice water and pastries in all the meeting rooms (not to mention the hefty 3 or 4 hundred dollar regestration fees to pay for all that), but how about air conditioning and a facility with an interior that doesn't look like a dump? The Hamvention isn't just any old hamfest--it's the no. 1 ham gathering in North America; one of 3 major ham shows in the world (the others are in Japan and Germany). Hams from all over the world travel to Dayton to attend it. Bottom line--Hara's an embarrassment. Surely there's a better facility somewhere on the continent for the Hamvention, perhaps not too far from Dayton.
Rob Atkinson
K5UJ
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KJ6RA on May 13, 2003
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I'll be there again this year. The bathrooms...yes they are deplorable but no worst than some I've seen and smelled in campgrounds. Do I like the food prices and high hotel rates...sure don't, but this happens in most places that have high traffic events. We take a break from the activities and visit the AF Museum, it's a great place and should be worked into your hamvention visit. My main reason for going is to reunite with friends across the country. I go for the social aspects and over the last several years have found a great activity for Sunday. The Indianapolis 500!! Sunday is Bump Day and it is only a 100 mile drive to Indy. We combine the hamvention with Indy and have one great weekend. Wish I was only an hour away, sure would make it easier to go.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WA2JJH on May 13, 2003
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I can whole heartly recommend the AIR FORCE museum!
Last time I was there they had a full size mock-up of a B-52, hanging from the ceiling!
One gets an idea of how that mavelous 50 year old War bird is. The H and up series are still used today.
The Wright Brothers earliest birds are their too.
Early NASA x-planes and the first rockets are thier as well.
If the GRUB STEAK is still open, it is worth it. They used to have a contest, if you can finish their largest steak within an hour, you get it free.
I always found it amusing how evry store put up a greeting for Hams. Many do not know what hams are!
The welcome signs are a nice jesture.
Gave up on Dayton a while ago, but that is just me.
To those going enjoy. Hope you get that s-line cheap.
Mike
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Why I AM Going to Dayton
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by N8VQJ on May 13, 2003
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I know, Hara is a hole, but still, where else except possibly the Ohio State Fairgrounds would you be able to put it? The reasons I go have nothign to do with the facilities. Most are:
1. Comradarie
I almost always car pool with a bunch of friends everyday from here in Columbus. Some of these guys I only see once a year. I love riding along with all of them and value this. Plus if I have friends from other parts, I always see them at Dayton. I camped out once on Kelley's Island with the Buckeye Belles and KC4IYD, Nancy. I always cherish that memory of the weekend where we made not a single contact, but had fun anyway!
2. Flea market deals....
I don't buy radios in the flea market. I do get just about anything else there. Things GET CHEAPER in the flea market. My fondest memory is rooting through the infamous pile o crap that one flea market vendor had looking for a laptop battery for a buck (normally cost 100s!).
3. Learning about new stuff....
I don't participate in forums much, but I do check out all of the big radio company booths asking them about their new radios. Sometimes you get valuable advice/tips from the guys running the booths. Not many booth babes at Dayton (except the Yaesu girls). The people staffing the booths are knowledgeable about their products. Ever want to know why something is the way it is, ask these guys. They'll tell ya.
4. Comraderie.....
I like it so much I have said it twice. Sometimes you never get to really know a ham if you don't meet them. If one were to talk to my friend, WA8JCU, Wayne, you'd never know he was blind by talking to him on the radio. He's blind, can copy CW at faster then 20 and is a very good operator. Justy making a contact with him, you'd never know he was also interested in alots of stuff like jazz. These are things you can learn off the air, but not on the air.
4. Love for ham radio.
I love ham radio. I have loved it since I have been a child. It would be a huge shame if it died. If noone goes to Hamvention there won't be one. If noone gets on the repeaters or HF bands, there will not be ham radio. Ham radio is in a decline but it does not have to be. If your mostly into HF, what do you do when the band isn't open? Why don't you try coming down on 2m or 70 cm? Encourage new hams to upgrade! Don't EVER blast them on the air for using bad style or procedure. Talk to them in person. ELMER THEM! Also, contesters, it ain't going to hurt you missing one to help out your fellow hams. Participate in as many facets of the hobby that you have interest in. Use 2m. Use 70 cm. Use 6m. Use HF. Just GOTA! (Get on the Air!...FD 2003 slogan). Back in the 50's thru the 80's, people understood ham radio. Now people are so guilded that they don't understand why their cell phone does not work when the tower that has stood for many years on top of the WTC was taken out buy terrorists. When you tell people you are a ham they have no clue what you talk about when your on the radio. We hams have been instant messaging for years before ICQ and AIM was invented. We are the last line for communication in and out of areas when disaster hits. If Ham Radio dies, so does our non ham community when a disaster strikes. We should be ever prepared and ever vigilant in case of disaster. We should FIGHT MURPHY with good planning.
These and many others are why I go to Dayton and why I am not squeemish about the conditions. Look at it this way, when a disaster truely takes things out, you will have to experience these smells anyway! ;)
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RE: Why I am Going to Dayton
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by W8MMQ on May 13, 2003
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I was first licensed in 1994, and have been to Dayton Hamvention every year since. I love the Hamvention and would never miss a show. The Dayton Hamvention is a monument in amateur radio and to move it would be a bad idea. Go and have fun ... that's what I intend to do, and some 30,000 other hams from around the world too. 73 de Dan W8MMQ
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W5SSG on May 13, 2003
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Here's my 2 cents, I feel Hamvention should be moved around. How many hams that live in Cal or OR, WA, FL OK can't go to Hamvention. I doudt that every ham has the money or time to travel to Dayton. Let's take next year it should be in LA or New York or somewhere where a different slice of the hams can show up. I sure this has been tossed around before let's give it a try.
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KC0NVI on May 13, 2003
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My .01 worth...
Here is an idea, we have a BIG nice brand new convention center centrally located with plenty of oportunities to do some DX'ing from 14 thousand feet, (without an airplane).
The Colorado Convention Center attracts many, and it has plenty of restrooms, nearby places to eat, along with venders in the building as well.
If the Telecommunications industry can hold their expo there, (and it is a big one too), then I'm sure that it would work for the Hams. Might have to change the name to something more oriented towards the location, but could be a good change, and bring new life to the hobby.
Just a thought...
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by W8FAX on May 13, 2003
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Well foks, it has been announced here in Dayton that another multi year contract HAS been signed with HARA Arena so it appears that all the "we know it all...it's over" crowd were wrong again. AND, speaking for the 24000 or so of us that ARE going, we will miss those of you who are not going to show up beacause of some complaint you have about Hamvention. We will try our best to keep your absence from from diminishing the good time we have every year we go, but will look forward to seeing you at that perfect place and time where the dream hamfest resides in your imagination.......73..........
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WD9HAE on May 13, 2003
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I guess it goes to show that George was bitching before he was born.. and will till he goes SK..
Chuck
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by WD9HAE on May 13, 2003
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I guess it goes to show that George was bitching before he was born.. and will till he goes SK..
Chuck
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RE: Why I will go to Dayton
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by WB2AMU on May 13, 2003
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I went to Dayton in 1998 and was able to give a talk on Six Meters. It was extremely hot there on the Friday but it was fun to see everyone. I tend to think that a better location can be found - a better arena and certainly a place with more parking! I know that the feeling would be to keep it in the middle of the country but I would not mind it coming a bit closer east - maybe the Pittsburgh or Philly area. I think that now is a perfect time for checking out another location with the current lease expiring. I think that some clever minds can come up with some new ideas also to make it more attractive - we need this!
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Why I am not Going to Dayton (Im Going!)
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by K4KAL on May 13, 2003
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I found the reading of this topic very interesting. But.. I see Hamvention almost like an old Ball Park that you look forward to attending those games every season. Sure there are issues with the bathrooms, and all those guys running around with BO. But that just adds to all the fun. With that said.. I look forward to seeing you guys/gals I have had the pleasure of having QSO's with. 73s..
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by N6VQQ on May 13, 2003
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Does this haveto be in Ohio? In Sacramento California they have a nice area called Cal-Expo, that puts on many shows, and their is plenty of parking spaces along with many arenas for shows to be given.
As far as the area is concerned,, they have a new Indian Casino called Thunder Valley that is scheduled for opening in June. Reno is 120 miles away, and Lake Tahoe is 100 miles away, and there are a lot of Ham radio enthusiasts in the area.
This is just a thought, I am not affiliated with any of these places, but I at least know that this Cal expo is easily accesable, and a really nice place for family events.
In an event, I hope that whatever the place that is chosen, I hope the people who run it, realize that events like this are a great part of our hobby, which many times benefits those in need, such as 911,which I voluntered for when I lived in New Hampshire, but was not used because of the overwhelming response that was given by us Ham Radio Operators.
In closing, I hope you all have a good time at Dayton.
73 Ron
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Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KE2IV on May 13, 2003
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WOW!
As the original poster I am overwhelmed. This post has certainly generated a lot of heat! And even some light.
For those of you who think I don't appreciate the importance of Hamvention - please read my original post!
I love Hamvention. I went in both 2001 and 2002 (and during the latter - drove out from NY to get a flea space etc.).
Now let me tell you this. Hamvention draws maybe 25,000 or 30,000 attendees tops - spread out over three days.
I go to Yankee Stadium here in NYC for ball games where they get that many per game (i.e. in one night!). I'm sure you folks in other major sports venue locations get the same level of attendees to big events.
HOW COME THOSE PLACES CAN CLEAN THE TOILETS EVERY NIGHT SO THEY ARE DECENT THE NEXT DAY BUT NOT HARA???
The problem isn't DARA. It isn't Hamvention. It's the HARA Arena.
Comraderie and good times are great but really - don't all of you think you deserve more respect than what you get from HARA? Where is your pride?
Hamvention brings in a ton of bucks to HARA and Dayton and yet the conditions are DEPLORABLE!
I agree with the folks about Columbus or wherever so long as it's cleaner and more repectful of us. Let's vote with our bucks, not our nostalgia!
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RE: Why I am not Going to Dayton
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by KA4YBL on May 14, 2003
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Boy!!! You have to love bathroom humor to get this far down the list.
I go to HARA 3 times a year. The two computer shows and Hamvention. No bathroom problems at the computer shows but at Hamvention, YES! When was the last time you saw anyone cleaning anything at Hamvention?
Move the Hamvention to another location in Ohio? I say how about going a little bit south like the Kentucky State Fairgrounds in Louisville. One of the largest indoor spaces in the world. You could put the entire Hamvention AND flea market inside under one roof! And paved parking for thousands of cars and still have 4 other large conventions going on at the same time. To heck with the weather. And Kentucky might even let Ohio keep the tax money.
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Why I am Going to Dayton
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by N2YTF on May 14, 2003
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I went to Dayton for the first time last year, and plan on going again this year. Dayton is an incredible experience and something every ham should see and experience at least once.
Hats off to the incredible Dayton club folks who put on the show...not every club could organize and run a hamfest that size!
When I went last year, I was going to meet up with my friend Steve who was flying in (I drove). Before the fest, he told me that if I stayed in a hotel 30 min away from the fest I wouldnt be able to see it all....then he told me that we would not be able to meet up on simplex. I thought he was crazy...after all I was going to be there 3 days.
Well I was 26 years old then and trying as hard as I could I was unable to see everything....there is just so much! It was ham heaven! I was blown away. I did see about 90% of all the vendors but I only saw about 10% of the presentations I wanted to see.
As far as using a radio there....UNBELIEVEABLE! For my entire hamming life on the east coast of the US and in New York City I had always been fighting intermod caused by commercial interests and their powerful (and sometimes improperly tuned) trasnmitters. At Dayton for once all that commercial garbage was replaced by thousands of conversations on all the bands! It was wonderful. There was even a live chicken walking around with an ATV transmitter on its back! EVERYONE WAS ON THE AIR!
Staying in contact was tough but we managed. Some hams even resorted to 3.8 Mhz hts
For once instead of being the odd man out with the ham gear, and instead of being a ham at some smallish hamfest, here was an enormous gathering...perhaps the worlds largest gathering...of like minded hams....FANTASTIC!
As far as the original posters comments, I had no problems with the bathrooms, and didnt detect any foul odors. I didnt find the place to be overly crowded either, but then again I live in New York City so I am used to large groups of people that might intimidate those from thinly populated areas.
If I had one complaint about Dayton it would be that it is so far away from New York City (13hr drive) and the populated east coast. They say two thirds of americas population lives within something like 500 miles of colonial williamsburg, why not have Dayton closer? But then again I guess those on the west coast have it even worse.
73 to all,
Tom, N2YTF
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RE: Why I am not going to Dayton
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by K7IHC on May 14, 2003
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Mail this to a friend!
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Dayton is not within a day's drive of the S.F. (California) Bay Area. As someone posted earlier, make the event easier for West Coast hams to access, and you'll get more 6 and 7 call attendees. Maybe a biennial West Coast hamvention (one year in the East, next year in the West)? Believe it or not, quite a few people in this country live west of the Rocky Mountains.
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West Coast Whiner
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by N0TONE on May 14, 2003
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Mail this to a friend!
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K7IHC, did you actually TRY to get to Dayton?
Round trip from SFO to Dayton this year ran me less than $100.
Do you really go to major 'fests? I did not see your callsign at the last Visalia or Pacificon event. Those are major conventions out here. Both very close to you. My guess is that you would find a reason to not go even if it were out here.
Also, hamming in the midwest is very different from the west coast. The west coast is obsessed with who owns what repeater frequency. We have clubs battling it out with counties, and repeater coordinating bodies suing clubs and vice-versa. We make demi-gods out of the guys who teach ham radio classes, but we don't follow the new licensees once they're licensed - so they let the licenses lapse and we don't care. Our HF hams don't operate VHF/UHF/microwave - and our microwave hams stay in their convenient little cliques and we never see them on Field Day.
In the midwest, they put operating in front of getting new licensees on the air, so when a newbie DOES get a license, he keeps it. They emphasize variety in the hobby, so that there is continuous cross-pollenation between classes, and interests. They actually have ham clubs that are NOT cented on a repeater, or a microwave link system, | |
