eHam.net - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community

Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Speak Out
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net


QSL Managers
     

Ham Links
     



[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Log Periodics for Rovers

Tim Ertl (KE3HT) on April 27, 2003
View comments about this article!

Rover Antenna's

Log periodic's are as strange as us Rovers but they really work!

Like most great discoveries I discovered this one purely by accident. In the fall of 2001 I made a decision to further my Microwave distance in a big way.  Like most rovers the first question is how big a dish can I take this out with me? Where can I find one? Do I have to sacrifice my 50-432mhz (low) bands? What I found was my 50-432mhz Low Bands work better than ever! First let me tell you what lead up to my discovery. MY old microwave configuration was a 2x4foot dish that came out of the trunk of my van at each site. The beams were fixed on the roof, which meant I had a 4-wheel rotator that required gasoline to operate.  Lots of set up time and poor scores.
 


I borrowed a 4 foot round dish in the hopes that it might help my gain. I am sorry to say it did not help too much but I did make a 200+ mile contact on 5ghz, which got me excited. I also got a traffic ticket for blocking the rear center break light. So this configuration had to go. Still had poor scores but I told myself I was having fun on the microwaves. Something very new to me.


Now comes a bigger problem. A friend of a friend had a 6foot dish!  4foot to 6foot had quite a nice advantage in gain so I started to look for answers. I found no one doing this. This only made me want to do it more. I figured I might make a real leap in distance with a 6footer. I finally had a friend tell me to strap the dish to the roof of my car and sacrifice my low bands. Low bands being anything I could not put into the dish, 50mhz thru 432mhz. I started to lift this 6foot dish onto the roof when I suddenly discovered this was heavy. My brother Robin (KK5SS) and I looked into how I could maybe use something like a Ginn pole that we used as kids to raise a large sail boat mast. I factored in information gathered from many people such as KJ1K, N1FGY, WA2AAU and others. One of the most interesting ideas had to do with air flow across the dish at 55mph. Face down it looks like a aircraft wing so it might take off! So I mounted it upside down with the feed pointing to the stars. This gave me a new problem. I needed new shocks on the van since now it pushes down! At least I didn't have to worry about it ripping the roof off my van. The end result of my 6 months of ideas and tinkering with this was something like this:


After road testing I was convinced that it was going to stay on the roof of my van and I started to look at the low bands. As you can see from the picture there is no real room for beams the way I had them before. I found a number of people like N2JMH that had solved this problem by leaning them down over the front of the vehicle pointing at the road or the sky. It’s a little hard to see but this is the best pic I could find. I took it at a gas station. If you look carefully you can see that the beams are only 1 foot or less apart from each other. On 144 and 222 this arrangement shows a loss of  pattern, which seriously curtails your usable range. It also showed some strange impedance bumps in the smith chart I could only explain by the proximity of the beams to each other. My old configuration was not much better than this so I started to look into doing the same thing.

After creating a mast and laying it on the top of the van I discovered that my beams would have to be shortened as well to keep them from hitting the road. Maybe a higher van would work better. N2JMH had a high standard style van and I had a Dodge Grand Caravan I purchased to do HF in the PA QSO party contests. I was about to give up on the low bands when I saw a cable TV truck with some bent up pipe on top near my home. I then had the idea to put a hinge on the mast that would allow me to have everything on the roof  and not hit the road!

  


Now I was cooking! Yea right. How many of you non-truck drivers ever notice how low some of those bridges are? Especially troublesome to us hams with beams on the roof are the low trees when your on a dirt road attempting to get to the top of a hill. I almost gave up again until I saw a HUGE  LF  log periodic antenna at the Long Island Macarthur airport. On a repeater I struck up a discussion about it and I had my first lesson on Log Periodic beams. Before you stop reading on, yes, I know log periodic's have a bad reputation for performance per dollar. Its true. When your trying to get three or 4 low band beams on the roof of a van you have to suffer one way or another. Since I was already borrowing many of the beams I used in the past the thought had occurred to me to purchase new ones. Yep, big $$$ for 4 beams.  I had already priced a few. I searched the beam companies for log periodic’s and the only thing I found was that all these companies knew was that Log Periodic’s are poor performance (gain) per dollar. I happened to hear about an IF rig (I needed a 28mhz IF RIG) from a friend. It was listed on eham.net. To my surprise I saw something that mentioned KMA antennas. I had not heard of them so I clicked. WOW ! They already had a log periodic called a "ROVER". Only problem was that it was too big to put on a van without assembly at each site. I struck up a discussion with Ed Griffin (W4KMA). He was listening to my needs and designed a better ROVER antenna. The thing that made the old one so big was 50mhz. So we made one that worked from 144 thru 432 which includes 222mhz. It was only 4 feet wide plus or minus which is plenty narrow for most roads. I looked around and found that W8SMD made a halo antenna for 6 meters. Ok none of these antennas are great but I  figured I could make some of the close in contacts and even if I could not work the same long distance stations I would be satisfied because now I had a 6foot dish on the roof of my van! This is what the result looked like.

In the travel position (down)


In the up position:

My next contest was June 2002 and boy it was interesting. Unfortunately I blew the power supply that runs many microwave things like 28v relays and such. I made almost no microwave contacts. I did have the low bands though. So I played with them and worked a few stations over 200 miles! Even on 6 meters! I figured maybe the bands were good and I missed out on some real good contesting. The next contest was August 2002. My 144mhz IF rig died. I borrowed one the day before the contest from Sigurd (KJ1K). He is a real good friend. Again my contest had problems. Was I every going to get any luck?  Rain, hail, lightening and some wind created hazards I did not know how to cope with. Its interesting how loud hail can be in a 6-foot dish facing up. I made some huge contacts as long as 280 miles on 5ghz and yes I made 289 and longer contacts on 50-432mhz. It seemed that anyone I wanted to talk to I could. Same rigs and PAs for the most part but things were good. September 2002 it was my turn to fall apart. I slipped on a wet ladder and sprained my ankle real bad. Zzzzz if you know what I mean. After I woke up I made a couple of local contacts but decided to get down the hill before I hurt myself more. I slept a little and then went to a near by medical center that was open on Sunday! Some luck! Before my ankle I had made some incredible contacts on the low bands. This is now my third trip out and this contest the bands were reported by everyone as not being great. Add to that my down time and soreness on Sunday. So how come I was doing better than ever? My score was the best I ever had (20k points) I started to analyze what I was doing over these last three contests. Here are my conclusions:

  1. Height, I was now at more than 14 foot above the ground and at least 8 foot above the roof of the van.
  2. Less interference with other antennas. I now only have the dish, log, and halo.  With some fair spacing.
  3. The Halo was at 16 foot above the ground. Amazing 6meter contacts in all three contests.
  4. Rotation, Where I was fixed to the van before. Now had 360 rotations. Easier to find those other signals.
  5. Even my dish was higher up off the ground than any of my earlier attempts.
  6. Road clearance 11foot.
  7. Site set up time, less than 10 minutes including alignment to compass.


These factors made my low band performance much better than using larger individual beams. The result was that my 5ghz record is now 289 miles! (FN00 to FN32) thanks to a lot of patience from a big gun (W2SZ). I made low band contacts on all bands with every station that had the bands I did. Even though I did not make any really tropo type contacts it was clear after three contests that my new configuration was not only as good as but better than anything I had before. Mostly thanks to W4KMA for the KMA140-460 Log Periodic (See: http://www.kmaantennas.com) that everyone said would not cut the mustard. In the case of a rover less is more. Less set up time, less hardware, less interference and less coax. This has really worked out well for me. I thought it would be good to share this surprising discovery. Many of you would not have considered it. If I don't sprain my ankle this next trip out I plan to break my 20k point score big time this year... Look out you other rovers!
Tim Ertl KE3HT/r
http://www.lmrgroup.com/ke3ht/rover


Tim Ertl 3/27/2003

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K2QO on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Great article! As a beginning rover myself, any suggestions or ideas are thoroughly reviewed for applicability. What I see here is great application of Albert Einstein's notion that everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler.

My setup uses separate beams for the low bands and performance has been OK, but I have wondered for quite a while how those KMA log periodics would work. You say that others told you they would not work and I got that same advise last year when I posted questions on the popular vhf reflectors. Those responses were generally by rovers that had excellent resources to get up big hardware.

This article also points out one other VERY important thing. It takes a HUGE leap of faith to jump into
VHF roving, but a with one of these log periodics and an FT100D, IC706, FT847, FT817 or whatever, the new guy can jump in with very little in the way of hard- to-produce-hardware. Even a portable armstrong-rotated mast and one of the above radios makes a nice beginning combo.

Good timing for a great article to get the juices flowing as we all get ready for a super June VHF QSO Party!!

73, Mark K2QO/R
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by KG4VBR on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Tim
All I can say is that is some dedication and spirit to our hobby.Congratulations on all your hard work and tenacity.Great article too!

73 JOE KG4VBR
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by WB8XX on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Outstanding article Tim, that's alot of hard work and fun. GL with contests, someday
I will get back on for the VHF/UHF contests. 73 Kevin WB8XX
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by WR8Y on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I'v wanted to try rover operation since the '70's (I don't remember the term "Rover"). This article will get me moving! This is perhaps the best eHam article this year, and if you want to see a REAL hamshack - check out this guy's web page and look inside the van! :-)


Mark
WR8Y
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by N2JMH on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Tim, It is nice to see the "sickness" has gotten to others. Very nice write up!!!

As for the log periodics, I had the same info given to me as you had, either not very good or not available. Glad to see that you could work with someone to get a usable product out there. Sure will help others get into roving at the start up level. I am sure that once others find out how much fun it is they will soon be adding bands and more aluminum.

Just to add a few things for all to consider, my theory is that it is better to get on the band with less than ideal antenna spacing then not to have the band at all. I have to admit that Tim's picture of my van was at it's worst case for spacing. It never started out that way, it just happened over the years as we added more bands. Did the patterns stink, sure did and I figured it out by trial and error. Were we on the bands? You bet we were, check the scores, we seem to do pretty good form Western NY.

Last fall I decided that I would do a major rebuild of the rover exterior. Poor antenna spacing was a major factor as well as getting a ticket for over length in 2002. My goal was fast setup time, better spacing and being able to operate as we traveled.

I went with a front and rear mounted extendable military crankup towers. Just a little over 12 feet while driving and extandable to 20 feet while setup. Fully rotatable while driving, although the length of some of my antennas makes this somewhat hairy it has worked so far. I have not been able to bring myself to cutting the antennas to a shorter length.

Anyways, thought I could add a picture to this, can't figure out how to so if you are interested, send me a email to n2jmh@arrl.net and I will be glad to share some of my shots.

I strayed from the original post subject here, but if you are reading this you are obviously interested in roving. Feel free to contact me for my opinions and I also recommend w4iy's website for information on roving.

73 Jim n2jmh/r


 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K7LA on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Rovers add a lot of spice to our hobby. Nice job.
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by N3YBE on April 27, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This article got my "roving" juices flowing. I've always wanted to go the rover route and after inheriting the wife's old minivan I now have a decent vehicle to do it with. I love looking at everyone's pictures and have gotten a lot of ideal's.

I've set my first roving expedition for the Sept VHF contest, low bands only but I'll be there.

Does anyone know of a site of popular parking spots for setups? How about popular routes?

Thanks and 73
Sid n3ybe
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by N0UY on April 28, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nice story Tim. I've always known that rovers were a special kind of people but your post only shows me how unique you guys really are. If you put that much heart and sole into everything you do, you must lead a very rich life. As far as the nay-sayers comments about the log periodic, here is my opinion. While it's a trade off in performance for those fringe contacts, it more than makes up for it in the convenience of operation for the majority of q's worked. Great job and good luck in the up-coming vhf season.

Ray N0UY
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K2QO on April 28, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Sid,

The best thing to do is go to the arrl soapbox reports for the last dozen VHF contests and read all the postings. Here is the link for the Jan 03 test:

http://www.arrl.org/contests/soapbox/?con_id=47

Also, N2MH has a list of rover sites, hardly complete but VERY nice at:

http://www.intac.com/~mherson/rover.htm

The link to the table of sites seems to be busted right now, but it worked last week for me.

73,
Mark K2QO/R
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by W4KMA on April 28, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Tim,

For anyone interested, we will have one of these antennas on display at the Dayton Hamvention.

KMA Antennas will be located in the fleamarket area, spaces 2828 - 2831.

73,
Ed
W4KMA
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by KA0MR on April 29, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I think you coulda beat the ticket tho. What about cars that have no rear center light and also I know of no state that has this as a requirement.
 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K9ZF on April 29, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I sure do Sid, check out:
http://www.intac.com/~mherson/rovesite.htm
N2MH RoveSite Locator.

Outstanding article Tim! Great to see a Rover article on Eham:-)

I've been at it for several years now, but your setup is quite a bit more advanced than mine. No microwaves here yet, so I've focused on maximizing the "bottom 4". Antennas are the biggest challenge a Rover has to face, and every Rover is a little different:-) But that's what makes it fun! A couple of years ago, I ran a loop for 6, 4 elements on 2, and 11 elements on 432, all on 1 mast. I had a TV rotor mounted to the tool box in the bed of my truck with a 6' mast. Not exactly a high performance array, but it worked! I could rotate while driving, and had "0" setup time! But, not much gain on 6, a lousy pattern on 2 [poor spacing], and not much elevation. The next contest I changed to an 8' mast to spread the antennas a little, and it helped a bunch. First Place Rover, Central Division, June 2001:-) This was a nice setup, particularly since I Rover solo, but I wasn't happy with the antenna gain. My next step was to homebrew a push-up mast! A visit to Home Depot yielded several pieces of nesting sizes of EMT conduit. I cut these to various lengths to end up with a push-up mast that is 8' when collapsed, and extends to 27'. This is mounted along with an AR40 rotator in the bed of my truck, and braced against the ladder racks. I also added a homebrew Moxon rectangle for 6, a homebrew 8 element yagi on 2, and the same trusty little Cushcraft 11 element yagi for 432. I gave up a lot of convenience with the bigger setup, but I gained a LOT of performance. The antennas are much bigger, but still manageable by one person, which is a requirement for me. Setup is a snap. I leave the antennas fixed to the mast and anchored during travel, and just raise the mast to operate.

The homebrew antennas performed well at first, but didn't hold up well to the riggers of Roving. Numerous problems and equipment failures have kept me sidelined for the last few contests, but I'm planning to be back in action in June! This time out I'll be replacing my beat up Moxon with a pair of loops on 6. I'm hoping the loops will perform well enough that I don't miss the beam too much. [BTW, I'm hoping to get a look at the new PAR 6m Moxon at Dayton] I'm also planning to replace the 2m yagi with something bigger and better. I'm hoping Dayton will be good to me, hi hi.

Antennas for Roving will always be a compromise. Tim's log periodic works well for him, but I find that here in the midwest I like the extra gain from having big yagis and a tall mast. But that doesn't mean I wasn't having fun with the small antennas. The important thing is to put together what you can and get out there and make some QSO's! Roving is a ton of fun, and highly addictive:-) If you give it a try, you might just find yourself trying to make room for a 6' dish as well!

You can find lots of photos and tips on Roving at the Rover Resource Page:
http://www.qsl.net/n9rla

73 and have fun!
Dan
Dan Evans K9ZF
Scottsburg, IN 47170
{EM78}
K9ZF /R no budget Rover
ex-N9RLA
Check out the Rover Resource Page at:
http://www.qsl.net/n9rla
QRP-l #1269
IN-Ham list administrator

 
Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K3TKJ on April 30, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a great fan of W4KMA antennas ...besides being a great guy Ed makes antennas that work and priced right.

http://www.w4kma.com

Let me share this with you....

My KMA 4013 (40-1300Mhz) and the KMA BIG 6 (50-54Mhz) have been working flawlessly for the past year, however they were severely damaged in a storm earlier this month.

During one of our famous Spring Nor'Easters (5 days of rain, 25 mph wind and just generally nasty wx), there was apparently a small twister embedded in the storm. It removed some roof shingles from my house and next door ham shack, destroyed the outdoor security light (ripped it to shreds and even shattered the bulb) and ripped the 2 antennas completely off the mounting mast by breaking the rotor housing, leaving the rotor mounting clamps still clamped to the mast and the antennas, top mast and what was left of the rotor on the ground. The 2 antennas fell 40 feet and were 25 feet from where they originally were. It wasn't pretty! I left the mess as it was, until the insurance adjuster looked at it, and then proceeded to disassemble the antennas. Took the BIG 6 off first and set it in top of a picnic table....thought occurred to me if I was careful I could bend all the elements back and not break any....and I was shocked to see how easy this was. The Aluminum returned to its original place with no kinks or any "ugliness" associated with an antenna that gets smashed like this. The booms were bent about 4", in the horizontal plain, right at the mast clamp. I just took the mast over to a telephone pole, with me on one end and a friend on the other and just bent it back straight....BIG 6 is again healthy and ready to reinstall. There is no visible damage, to say that I am impressed with this antenna's strength and construction is putting it mildly.

The 4013, which was the top antenna, hit the ground first with the front of the antenna. I again put it on the picnic table and straightened all the elements with the same success as before. None of the front elements bent, just the longer elements. The booms however took the brunt of this fall. bending 18" in the vertical and 8 inches in the horizontal with a slight twist for good measure. The front boom sections are not damaged just the rear sections with most of the damage at the mounting clamp. 2 new rear booms and the antenna will be just like new.

W4KMA, you sure build a tough antenna! Not to mention they get out pretty good... even with my puny efforts I have 175 grids, 24 states and 7 countries on 6 meters, 39 grids and 15 stares on 2 meters and 14 grids and 8 states on 432. I have always wanted to go roving. I think this article tipped me over the edge. Thanks Tim.

See you in Dayton!

73, Al
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by KD7EZE on April 30, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
www.w4kma.com is an invalid web address.
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by K3TKJ on April 30, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry the correct URL is

www.kmaantennas.com
www.qsl.net/w4kma
 
RE: Log Periodics for Rovers  
by KE3HT on May 5, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
First I want to say thank you to everybody that laft comments! I do want to say that when you are a rover you will eventually make comprimizes. Some stick to just the bottom 4, others go for the big numbers. I on the other hand am in the group of those going for distance.

Its always amazing to me how many people have different ways to solve problems. I would like to ask everyone to come up with one Rover subject and write what they have found. As you may have liked my article I am sure many of us would love to read yours. You don't have to be an expert to have an idea. Share it with us! I crave more reading material on Rovers. This is one of the reasons I posted this article in the first place.

Thanks ,, Tim KE3HT/r KN
 
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Related News & Articles
DXLab – Possibly the Best Free Station Management Software
Expanded QSO Logging
I'm a Rover!
Computer Logging vs. the Paper Logbook
I'm a Rover, Part Deux


Other Antennas Articles
Log Periodics for Rovers
Remote Tuned Slinky Dipole for Restricted Hams:
Mythical Antennas
Hide in Plain Sight!
Inverted V, Vertical Rhombic