Dealing with Pirates
G. Stanley Turnbull (WA6ST)
on
May 2, 2003
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I have just received a card from a QSL manager [DJØFX, Walter Brenner] that was accompanied by a thoughtful form letter, from which I am extracting several ideas into separate postings, to make comments (if any) easier.
The subject here is one that I frankly have no experience with, but
I certainly endorse Walter's ideas, and I quote him [tidying up his English which, I hasten to say, is infinitely better than my non-existent German]:
"Since 1982 I have made 8 DXpeditions to French Polynesia, and it is frightening to hear the very bad situation on our ham bands... Those ever increasing frequency CB pirates invaded all our QRG [that's frequencies, folks; I admit I had to look it up to be sure] from 3.5 to 29.7 MHz. And they are loud, using ham equipment with kilowatt amps and auto antenna tuners!
"Those bandits were ruthless and when I asked them politely to move to their assigned QRG, I got very bad answers. The main problem is there is no law-enforcement on 12,000 islands in YB, BV, BD, 9M2 and South America, but a lot of corrupt people, so we have to defend our vested right.
"I think if one ham spots an illegal/intruder he should give this info to packet radio. Then hundreds of ops should tell the intruders to stop those illegal transmissions. I am sure it would help, because if they realize there is never a quiet QRG for them, they [will not] show up on our bands. But we have to tell them consistently to stop it! For months and years to come!"
He adds that "since 2001 even US fishing boats from Seattle use our QRGs for illegal unlicensed communication."
Now I confess that I just don't seem to hear pirates. And I admit to being a little dubious about his proposed remedy - but I don't see how it could hurt and can't think of anything better. So if you hear 'em, maybe you could give Walter's proposal a try.
73,
Stan WA6ST
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Dealing with Pirates
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by G0MGX on May 2, 2003
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I agree with the idea, I often hear what I would call "suspect" transmissions on HF. However, if I know a station to not be a licensed amateur, then for me to transmit a message to that station would be in breach of my licence - right?
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Dealing with Pirates
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by 9V1VV on May 2, 2003
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Stan,
An interesting post, but I do feel that Walter Brenner was being optimistic if he thinks the pirates in Indonesia will stop.
We in Singapore face daily obstacles getting through SSB pirates on all HF bands. They operate up to 5KW in all sections of the bands including the designated CW portions. On the lower bands, the only way to hope to work DX from here through the QRM is in the middle of the night when the Indonesians are sleeping.
Not only the Amateur bands, but ALL frequencies from 1.6 to 30 MHz, are affected.
The reasons are complex, and no efforts by radio amateurs will change matters.
I was involved in a large Indonesian Government project in 1996 as installation and commissioning engineer for 15 Marine Coast Stations, in locations accross the length and breadth of Indonesia from Sumatra to Irian Jaya and north to the Philippine border. It was a great adventure for me, and I have many tales to tell.
What is of interest here is that the radio operators in these remote islands would hold evening nets on SSB for the mothers and fathers, uncles and cousins, of young men working in other regions, usually in the cities where they had gone for work. Operators in the big cities such as Jakarta or Surabaya would arrange with these young men skeds for many islands all over the vast country, for a small fee of course. These larger city Marine Coast Stations often use up to 5KW PEP, free-running transmitters. The stations I was commissioning were only 600 watt, but they were also free-running 1.6-30MHz.
It is not only the marine radio operators that cause problems. The police, army and airforce bases work on the same lines. There are thousands of Japanese rigs out there free-running in the hands of as many operators all over the archipelgo, all using radio as a kind of community service, in a country where landlines and cellphones cost money and are far from reliable.
The operators are poorly trained or dismissive of the niceties of international regulations and procedures. For example, a common calling frequency is 10.000 MHz !! It's an easy figure to remember. The low portions of the amateur bands are fair game. The operators often remark on the "birds" tweeting (CW ham operators) but ignore them or force them off the air. I have heard a QSO between villagers in the coastal town of Panjang in southern Sumatra talking with their relatives in Yogyakarta on 9.750 MHz, right in the middle of a commercial band!
I do not see the situation changing in the near future. The pirate Indonesians will continue undiminished in number. There is no local authority in existance to challenge them. And the Indonesians are a gregarious people and thrive on chat and scandal. Radio is the medium for this.
It makes working the ham bands in southeast asia a real adventure at times.
The irony is that ham radio is now very popular in Indonesia. Take a listen on 7025 Khz to the Indonesian CW nets. Immaculate code! I wonder if the pirates are an embarrasment to these guys
73
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by K0BG on May 2, 2003
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Asking (telling) pirates to get off the frequency or go to their assigned frequency is like telling a drug addict to stop using; it just doesn't and won't work.
There is another hidden problem here as well. Before the US amateur population starts complaining about illegal operation and high power overseas, they need to clean up their own act first. Far too many DX chasers and contesters use illegal power, some in excess of 5KW. Add in all of the illegal CBers, the so called freebanders, and you can see why the FCC has asked the ARRL's OO network for help.
Alan, KØBG
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KU4UV on May 2, 2003
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It would help if we put more heat on some of these companies like Copper Electronics and a few of the others that sell these "export" C.B. rigs that a retarded monkey could modify to operate anywhere from 26-30 MHz. A lot of the problems with the 10 Meter pirates comes from truckers and others who operate on the low end of 10 Meters trying to get away from all noise on the C.B. channels.
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FCC Powerless & Uninterested
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by WB9GKZ on May 2, 2003
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Seems to me that any enforcement by FCC in this regard is non-existent.
Looks like all we see for "enforcement" are stories of
letters sent to licensed hams that may not identify at the correct time interval, SSB signal a bit too wide and other trivial "offenses".
Some hack CB truck driver that spent $200 at a truck-stop can use the 10-Meter band unimpeded as his private intercom. No enforcement here! Why?.....becasue the lawyers at the FCC don't know the driver's address to issue him a letter.
Doesn't make sense.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 2, 2003
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What is really sad is that some of those that
the FCC has busted for freebanding lately have
had ham callsigns. I will only say that they have
ham callsigns because I do not consider anyone
that operates freeband to be a ham. Freebanders
are criminals.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 2, 2003
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pERHAPS IF REILEY would stop wastung FCC resources sending advisory notices to HAMS using their legit call signs, pirites could be dealt with.
Instead the FCC likes to shoot fish in a barrel.
In my neck of the woods the biigist problem are gypsi cabs and narcotraffickers using freqs just above and below 11M
These RADIOSCUM use hundreds of watts mobile. Use over driven power mics, and can be detected by an audio amp!I can be listening to CD on my Nakamachi
stereo, and these llegal ops distorted amplitude modulation find the first diode in any amplifier.
Imagine the power they must use to do that.
A few times I will see a car with an 11M whip when They come through my high end stereo amp.
They will blast though for about 5 blocks away from my QTH. I am never fast enough to get my digital video camera to zoom in on the plate #.
Even if I did, the FCC would not want to be bothered.
It is easier for the FCC to give advisory notices the HAMS that are in the sightest enfringement. Such as HI-FI SSB.
Maybe I should not use my legit call! I understand the FCC gave out notices for using non standard phonetics!
So I guess all we can do is ignore them. The FCC has been ever since ultra high power mobiles that operate from 26.000-28.050. Yes they use the CW portion of 10 meters.
Unless you have something like a Baretta 92F, you can not deal with pirates.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KA6VNU on May 2, 2003
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Yes....there are BIG problems on the ham bands...
When I hear pirates on the band, I like to send them
a SSTV test pattern (with my call sign of course)
I don't have an amp, but sometimes those "weird" sounds are enough...
de Walt
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by WV2NY on May 2, 2003
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You might not be able to stop it, but you could cut it back quite a bit if they were to stop making and selling CB radios with 10 meters on them. I work on a dock with trucks and more and more drivers are equipping their trucks with CBs that have 10 meters on them. These guys enjoy using 10 meters for several reasons. Most of these radios are putting out at least 35 watts, plus they, like us, are tired of the CB band garbage and their trying to get away from it. Not to mention they enjoy the range their getting with their new toy and Status Symbol. As long as the FCC is turning a blind eye to the problem, the problem will only continue to grow and get worse until, that's right, they surrender 10 meters to them because it would cost too much to fix the problem.
73' JOE WV2NY
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by N4SNL on May 2, 2003
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I also agree we should take back the bands and deal with pirates with heavy fines and confiscation of eqipment. They do it in Germany no problem. But most of the rest of the world especially the US, it is almost too late. The same thing is happening with music and video and you name it. When you allow people to sell equipment without a license and download things without cost and the list goes on and then tell them it's illegal to use it the way you are using it is really stupid to put it mildly. This has been happening for so long how can you put a stop to it? Kind of like giving an unloaded gun to a kid and then tell him not to put any bullets in it. So many people have or can buy radios, recorders, computer programs that tell you how to build things and where to get the parts, sell serveillance equipment and spy gadgets to anyone and the list goes on again where is it going to stop. It's a runaway system with no real consequences unless there is a murder or something drastic happens. Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to reprieve!!
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 2, 2003
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Yes true, those deluxe 10/11 meter mobile rigs are part of the problem.
However many of them are using the same or better HF
rigs than the average JOE Q. HAM. If you tune above 27.5, you will hear freebanders openly talking about their new ICOM, yaesu, and Kenwood!
What bugs me is that I wanted to buy a 400 watt HF solid state amp(THE SKYWALKER). It is only allowed to be sold in kit form in the U.S.A.
While these pirates are running up to 500 watts on AM
10-12 meters. The SKYWALKER will only be sold with a valid ham ticket.
How ironic, these guys can buy an 500W assembled amp.
I guess it is those for EXPORT only stores.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 2, 2003
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One of the main issues is the easy access
to illegally modified radios. Look at http://www.copper.com/ . This company openly
advertises 11 meter modifications to 10 meter
radios. It's one of the options they offer on the
10 meter radio description page !!! Even though this company is in the United States, the FCC has not shut them down. Unless the FCC begins enforcement on
the sale of the equipment, this issue will continue to
get worse.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KG4OOA on May 2, 2003
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I don't think we will have much luck in dealing with pirates in Indonesia or other South Pacific or Indian Ocean areas. This is because there are no (thank God)international police.
The simple solution was taught to me years ago while on dury in the U. S. Air Force. I spent most of my life in radar operations and as such spent much time on HF, VHF and UHF radios (I was a GCI Controller and HF Radio Operator as an additional duty). One of the things we learned about was ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) or jamming and ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) or anti-jamming.
Our HF nets could only change frequence at the direction of the NCS and that only happened when communications were lost due to propagation. So running away from the bad guy was not the answer. We were taught the 3 Rs of ECCM. These were Recognize, Report and Read Through the ECM.
Recognizing these guys is fairly easy. Those of us that have heard them know what it is.
Reporting -- We, at the present, have no formal reporting system to anyone but listening to them may bring out facts that could be brought to the attention of Homeland Security or local law enforcement based on what is heard. Also, for the rest, Indonesia is a hot bed of terrorist activities as well as piracy. Use your heads.
Read through is the most important aspect. Rotate your antenna and use filters and use your ears. They work wonders. However this won't work if you run away from anything but 59 signals. You have to be willing to strain your ears. I am surprised at the number of QSOs ended because the signal went to 51 or 52 or even 42 or 43. Also give honest signal reports not just a canned 59.
I know this workes because the Soivets tried their very best to jam us constantly and a lot of it was more than 5KW. They sent CW. They talked over us. They used noise jammers. They even recorded us and played it back. The end result was we always got our traffic through even though it was hard at times. It was fun too.
Try it! You might have fun beating them.
73,
Bob,KG4OOA
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by G3SEA on May 2, 2003
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Obviously it is a very daunting task to identify all or any of these stations and prosecute them internationally.They know this and that's why it is getting out of hand.
For the International Ham HF bands to go the way of the domestic CB band would be a disaster.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KE4ZHN on May 2, 2003
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This is an unfortunate problem thats not confined to just the freeband areas between 26-30 mhz. Many times I hear pirates on the amateur bands usually running the opposite sideband of the normally used one on that particular band and splattering down on top of QSO`s that are legit on the lower bands, namely 40-75 mtrs. These operators usually speak spanish and never ID with any callsign, foreign or US. Why isnt the FCC busting them? I realize some of these stations may be outside US borders, but many are not. Miami seems to be a haven for pirates here in Florida and they operate at will on any band they choose at any power they choose while Riley goes after "wideband" audio guys with legit calls!
Why are there literally thousands of "export" radios floating around the freeband areas and operating with little fear of being caught? Wouldnt it be a simple matter to have DOT officers (who already have law enforcement powers) confiscate illegal rigs when trucks pass through weigh stations? Im not suggesting that ALL truck drivers or ALL spanish stations are illegal, but a great many of the pirates seem to fit that criteria. Sure, asking DOT officers to confiscate gear sounds ridiculous, but why not? Clinton saw fit to allow police officers to investigate and even arrest bootleg cb`ers who get numerous interference complaints from neighbors, so what makes this idea so far out?
I agree with the poster who suggested that the FCC seems to prefer shooting fish in a barrel to actually going out and catching pirates simply because its easy to cite a legit ham. Granted, its a tall order to ask of the FCC to go after these thousands of pirates, but after all, they created this mess by deregulating CB in the first place! This double standard that exists now is totally unfair to hams who took the effort to get a legal ticket, only to be qrm`ed by some idiot who bought his gear in some truck stop and splatters all over the place! Meanwhile, the pirate does as he pleases, and if the legit ham were to retaliate, HE in fact would be cited for qrming the pirate! Its NOT legal for an amateur to willfully interfere with ANY communications, even pirates! I find this a bit strange. To me, it protects the lawless while penalizing the lawful.
Kind of sounds like some of our gun laws...but thats a whole different ballgame! The only way the bands will be cleaned up, is if the commission gets off its can and does its job! Hams are expected to be self policing, but does this mean we are supposed to play frequency cop for pirates too? This falls totally under FCC jurisdiction, NOT hams. And besides, how many times have I read where hams have turned in complaints on pirates only to be totally ignored by the commission? Hams send in tapes and monitoring evidence, and the FCC does nothing. Yet if someone complains about someone being too wide, or some minor infraction, they send out a letter ASAP to the so called offender. I dont support people breaking the rules, or condone it in any way, but it just seems to me that the FCC only sees fit to go after easy busts at every chance.
Recently, there has been a big flap over the wideband audio thing on 14.178. While Im NOT in favor of some of those operators running 6 kc wide just to sound good, this strikes me as inconsiderate on their parts. You can sound quite good only 3 kc wide if you work at it. But, I find it funny that Riley sent out letters to otherwise good hams based strictly on complaints from other 20 mtr. operators. Why will the commission take immediate action on a matter like this, while rampant pirating goes totally unchecked? Simple, its real easy to look up a call and send a letter, rather then actually go through the effort of tracking a pirate down with DF equipment.
One would think with the modern technology the FCC has at its disposal, it would be quite simple for them to track pirates though. Gone are the days of monitoring stations all over the US. Now,they simply fire up a satellite and track a signal in seconds. Why arent they using this capability more? You always read that the FCC is underfunded. Hmmmmmmm... once again I find this hard to believe! Look at your phone bill and notice all the FCC taxes on it. And your cable TV bill too. Where is this money going? Trouble is, the FCC has bigger fish to fry and ham radio is nothing but a nuisnace to them to enforce. They much rather would collect big money from cell phone companies and other big money interests then mess with some pirate splattering somewhere.
Once again, this just proves that the FCC isnt willing to enforce any rules they made that require any WORK to enforce!
Rich
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W1NCH on May 2, 2003
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"Meanwhile, the pirate does as he pleases, and if the legit ham were to retaliate, HE in fact would be cited for qrming the pirate! Its NOT legal for an amateur to willfully interfere with ANY communications, even pirates!"
Actually, this particular subject was discussed on other bulletin boards some time ago and Mr. Hollingsworth was good enough to clarify this for us.
Anyone transmitting a distress call has precedence over anyone else, even if an unlicensed/illegal transmitter interferes with a legal transmission. However, if a licensed amateur transmits over a pirate, then it is perfectly legal. In this scenario, the pirate is causing interference to a legally authorized transmission.
Besides, just who is the pirate going to complain to?
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W5RB on May 2, 2003
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Maybe now that Riley's asked specifically for ham help in getting pirates off 10 , somebody in Manhattan will suggest to him that he get the cooperation of the Taxi Commission and yank the radios out of every medallion cab with a K-40 antenna .That'd take a hundred or more 24/7 pirates off the CW and phone segments of 10 in that area , and he could do it in a week.Any OOs paying attantion?
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Dealing with Pirates
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by AC4UR on May 2, 2003
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Living in Florida I hear a lot of South American and Mexican stations using our bands illegally. The ten meter band is used a lot by freebanders and truckers, but they are the in the minority. I went back to 40 meters last winter and found the CW section being used by the same groups. Sometimes USB or LSB but usually the TX is having problems with carrier suppression. Some of the SSB signals are so distorted you can not make out words even though they are S9. I have searched on occasion and found just about every 5khz you will find one of these pirates. I hear them from 6 mhz to 29 mhz.
One comment in a discussion before was to run them off by keeping our frequencies very populated. During the CQ WW CW contest they were still there. I waited for quite awhile to work a ZL2 and still had to fight with SSB QRM from pirates. You can not run them off just by being on frequency. They are transmitting short haul and we are of very small concern to them.
One of the methods to identify a pirate station is to "finger print" their signal. Each transmitter has characteristics that make it unique. I worked for an agency many years ago that used this to positively identify any transmitter. (I would love to use this to find those lids tuning up on a DX pileup - hi)
Is this a curable situation? Very much so. There is no quick fix or over night cure. With planning, work and perseverance we could solve this issue. These discussions come up frequently as the problem is becoming a world wide concern. Most hams are frustrated as there doesn't seem to be an answer as to what to do about it. We blame everyone from manufacturer to the FCC. You have to look beyond the "one cause-one cure" thought process. I am also frustrated with pirate issue, but even more frustrated by the lack of creative thought in solving the problem. If anyone out there reading these posts works for the FCC or other government agency, give me a call.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KE6OUD on May 3, 2003
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I too, agree with most of the posts here on freebanders. I am a lic. Ham & a truck driver. I get really irate when another driver blows by me running 100 watts or better on his modified Galaxy (sold in truck stops)just to talk to his buddy 5 truck lengths away & tears up my stereo or worse, trying to watch a football game & the tv goes nuts while at a truck stop. I believe they need to yank all this illegal equiptment out of these truck stop "Super Stores" & ask the DOT at the inspection scales to help in the confiscation of said radios. Proof should be shown (Ham ticket) that the driver is in fact, a legal holder of a FCC issued lic. The DOT already grabs up any & all Radar Detectors & Police Scanners which are illegal in a commercial vehicle. I have asked several of these guys to go all out, study & get their ticket. Most replied, " Ain't got time driver, more fun this way!" Well, I figured out a long time ago that once my cb days were over, I met a better class of people on Amature Radio. Plus, I really don't think I would want these boneheads on my frequency. They're to stupid to pass a simple test just for 2 meters! But all in all, I DO write down the name of the company they drive for along with the truck number & send it off to FCC w/a complaint. No response yet! Untill next time, 73 Charlie KE6OUD
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 3, 2003
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Well kids, here we go again. The question as originally posted was in reference to pirates in general, but the response has turned out to be, as usual, pointed at the so-called "freebanders" U.S. 11m operators. I run 6m 2m 70cm 1.2g, with high gain antenna pre-amps and have NEVER had any significant interference on the road or at home. I am also an avid shortwave listener and MW dxer, and have NEVER had any notable serious interference from so-called "freebanders". Sure, every once in a blue moon a trucker will blow by and maybe I hear a brief burst as he passes directly in front of my house(situated 1/4 mile from the intersection of 2 state hwys and an interstate). I listen to 10m repeaters when the band is open, and have NEVER heard any freebanders interfering there. I had no problem hearing any of the RS satellites on 10 or 15m.
I've rummaged around the band above about 27.405 and heard little more than fairly decent sounding, courteous U.S. stations on LSB, and on USB, mostly South American stations blathering away there. What I'm saying is the glut of U.S. freeband pirates on 11m have nearly NO impact at all on the HF amateur bands, in my estimation based on receive only, yet seem to command the attention of countless licensed amateurs who seem completely fixated on them. What is up with that? My personal opinion is that it shows a level of resent and jealousy on the part of the licensed individuals who constantly harp and moan about the freebanders.
I'd venture to say the 20m, 40m, and 75m pirates pose a much bigger problem, yet get little attention from this forum. As for truckers interfering with mobile HF operators, how do you suppose it would be if the truckers were licensed, running full legal power on 20m right next to you on the highway? Is there some magic that would prevent the same type of interference you get from the 11m truckers, or is "licensed interference" somehow more acceptable? I'd go even farther to say there is a significant number of complaintants here who started out on CB freeband and using illegal power, and likely still frequent that band from time to time just to show off their station.
I've posted this idea before and will continue to do so. Let the 11m freebanders do their thing and go on about your rat killing on the vast remainder of the radio spectrum. They are really not hurting anything more that some ham's pride from time to time, when they successfully make daily QSOs with Europe, Australia, Asia and Africa running little more than glorified CB radios on a $40 fiberglass antenna.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 3, 2003
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To the last poster, I am not fixated on freebanders.
However I have one that lives very close to my QTH.
I do get his transmitter byproducts all the way up to 20M.I guess if feels the more mic gain, the more DX
True, many freebanders are polite.
The frustration is with the FCC. They will be more than glad to send out citations to hams using their callsigns.
Meanwhile base and mobile illegal users do go on Ham bands.
The FCC is wasting tax payer money, going after Hams
that do not identify correctly or interprete SSB regs
allowing up to 3khz for SSB transmission.
Also we do have a homestead act. Would not the FCC resources be better spent going after illegal radio's and opereations.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 3, 2003
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KC5NYJ said "I'd go even farther to say there is a significant number of complaintants here who started out on CB freeband and using illegal power, and likely still frequent that band from time to time just to show off their station."
KC5NYJ, the last person I saw that made a statement like this in a thread eventually was found out to be
operating freeband. So I hope you are telling the truth about listening only. ANYONE who operates freeband is not a ham, whether they have a ham callsign or not. For those of us that operate CW and digital modes on 10 meters, this is a BIG issue. Since you do not operate HF, it would be difficult for you to
experience having your QSO interferred with by one
of these illegal stations.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by W9JCM on May 3, 2003
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Why would they care if all the freqs were being used? And that everyone was asking them to leave. Ha do you really think that would work. I say No. They want to make trouble. And the more you talk with them or to them and beg them to leave the more you will get the noise toys and the rude comments and the carriers. Ignore, Document and Report.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 3, 2003
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"KC5NYJ, the last person I saw that made a statement like this in a thread eventually was found out to be
operating freeband. "
I see. So, it is immediately assumed that because someone voices an opinion that doesn't quite mesh with the "reason" asserted here, that person must be a part of the problem. Well, I can note that I post under my callsign because I have nothing to hide either in practice or opinion. I believe I made it perfectly clear that in my OWN estimation, based on countless hours of digging through QRM at all hours of the day just to ferret out faint broadcasts or utes on the commercial and international SW bands, which do, by the way, reside adjacent to or within the U.S amateur allocations, therefore qualifying for "HF", so-called "freeband" operators from any nation have not been a source of problems for me.
I can understand that in the event an illegal CB station is located in proximity of a licensed ham station and causing interference, it would seem fairly cut and dried for the ham to note the interference, record the frequencies and perhaps the audio, then present that information to the authorities.
Anytime you want to stop by and park out front of my QTH to monitor, feel free to do so. I'll provide the beer.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 3, 2003
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KC5NYJ said "I'd go even farther to say there is a significant number of complaintants here who started out on CB freeband and using illegal power, and likely still frequent that band from time to time just to show off their station."
KC5NYJ said "So, it is immediately assumed that because someone voices an opinion that doesn't quite mesh with the "reason" asserted here, that person must be a part of the problem."
The problem I have with what you said before was the
fact that you would even suggest that a "significant number of complaintants here" would be operating
freeband. Are you suggesting that a good portion
of those in this thread are freebanders ???
I would suggest that your opinion doesn't mesh
with any type of reason at all.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KL7XL on May 3, 2003
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I just stopped by the local marine supply and saw a pickup out front with a Shakespeare Marine VHF antenna mounted on it. Same model as I use on my Boston Whaler. A glance inside revealed a Marine VHF mounted on the dash.
The owner of the pickup is one of many local charter operators who use Marine VHF as a business land mobile type radio. They have these not only in their boats (legally) but also in their vans and pickups as well as the fishing lodge.
A few months ago as I was scanning 6 meters, I heard a very loud signal on 50.3. The person was saying "Test, Test" and whistling repeatedly, but giving no callsign. I realized this guy was using FM; I switched to that mode and answered with my callsign. I called again. No answer, and no further activity!
Unless someone I haven't met just got to town, I am the only ham in Sitka active on 6 meters.
I mentioned this incident to a ham friend who used to have a marine electronics repair shop here, and he acknowledged the problem. He said many of the fishing boats have Icom 551 and 551D as well as 2 meter and HF rigs for "private" communications. In other words, they are using the ham bands with their partners to give them a leg up on other commercial fishermen.
In 1979 I flew as a crewman on a Coast Guard C-130 from Kodiak to Sitka. Our cargo was a FCC mobile van. Their job was to monitor communications locally for about a week before moving on to another location. Presumably, they used the info gathered for enforcement actions.
Time for the FCC to get back into enforcement!
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 3, 2003
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Perhaps. But then again, how would we know since some posters are afraid to use a callsign which might be used to locate their supposed legal station?
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Dealing with Intruders
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by W8PT on May 3, 2003
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Technically, pirates are not the same as intruders. Sometimes you can hear (CW, SSB, RTTY, whatever) a station using a callsign not their own. They often will use an exotic or rare DX callsign that may or may not below to a valid station. This is referred to as a pirate operation. There have been infamous ones in the past; you may periodically see these popping up when new DXpeditions are scheduled to start.
Intruders, more correctly, refer to operators, be they commercal fisherman, cab drivers, CB'ers, whomever that (illegally) transmit in allocated frequencies where they are not permitted. Some have noted that they may also use excessive transmit power.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KE6OUD on May 3, 2003
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I've posted this idea before and will continue to do so. Let the 11m freebanders do their thing and go on about your rat killing on the vast remainder of the radio spectrum. They are really not hurting anything more that some ham's pride from time to time, when they successfully make daily QSOs with Europe, Australia, Asia and Africa running little more than glorified CB radios on a $40 fiberglass antenna. Via KC5NYJ......HHHHmmmnn
Really? I EARNED my right to the FREQUENCIES I use and I am in the process of upgrading. And for hurting my pride for being a HAM? You bet I am! And for the 11 meter users making QSOs, you can bet your pants that they are doing it with more than a $40 antenna & stock 4 watts out! Me thinks something is amiss here with your post but it is America. Free speech & all. Also strange is alot of "SKIP" is originating out of your area! If memory serves me right, 11 meters used to be an Amature only spectrum at some point. Illegal users abounded, thus making the FCC allocate it for Citizens Band only with a voluntary licence fee application. Then from 23 channels to 40. SSB included! Now, they are into 10 & 12 meters. Where is it going to end? ...Charlie
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 3, 2003
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KC5NYJ said "Perhaps. But then again, how would we know since some posters are afraid to use a callsign which might be used to locate their supposed legal station? "
If you are suggesting that most of us on this
thread are freebanders, then you are not in
touch with reality. Let me spell it out for you
again...ANYONE who operates freeband is NOT a ham,
they are a criminal. The only people who I have ever
seen suggest that hams would operate freeband are the
ones trying to justify their own illegal operations there. Is that what you are trying to do ???
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 3, 2003
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KC5NYJ, I found the following listings by you on
EHAM.
http://www.eham.net/classifieds/detail/62073
http://www.eham.net/classifieds/detail/60823
I had to search the web to find out exactly what
these radios are. I have found out that this
is CB radio equipment !! Why are you looking for
CB radio equipment on a ham radio site ???
This brings me back to my orginal question..do you
honestly think that most hams on this thread operate
freeband ???
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W5ONV on May 4, 2003
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I have a good remedy when I hear things on the bands that I don't like or don't want to listen to. I turn the big knob in the middle of my radio called the VFO or if you don't know what that is,The Tuning Dial.It is real easy to do if you wake up just a bit.Give it a try ,it's real easy to do and quit griping and complaning about everything all the time.Go to another band or freq. if you don't like it and most of all WAKE UP bozos !! Just be a ham and be happy that you can be ! Please wake up !
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 4, 2003
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Radio- Methinks ye protest too loudly.
As for my listings, well, I suppose there is nothing wrong with collecting vintage radios of any kind, now is there? Especially fine equipment designed and manufactured by one of the most important amateur radio operators ever to grace the hobby. Evidently, your limited scope in the amateur hobby didn't allow the brand name to ring a bell. Ironically enough, I got a bite from those ads, and picked up a nice set from a fellow amateur operator.
If you'd like to know more about Don Stoner, SK, W6TNS, you should know he was the idea man behind Project OSCAR. Stoner outlined his concepts for an Amateur Radio space program in the February 1961 issue of QST. In his prophetic article, Stoner envisioned a two-phase project, the first to launch an orbiting VHF beacon transmitter into space, the second to launch an 'orbital repeater'.
An ARRL member, Stoner is remembered as a CQ columnist. He served in several editorial capacities including VHF editor, Novice editor, surplus columnist and semiconductor columnist. Stoner also wrote the 'In Theory' column in CQ-VHF magazine during 1996 and 1997.
Don Stoner, W6TNS, had no problem with CB radios. Evidently he was less a ham than you, Radio....
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 4, 2003
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KE6OUD said:
"..Also strange is alot of "SKIP" is originating out of your area! .."
Charlie, that has to be the most profound statement I've ever seen. I'm plan to have it framed and displayed in my shack, complete with credits...Heck, I might even offer copies for sale.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 4, 2003
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KC5NYJ, you keep avoiding the question.
Do you really think that most of the hams on the thread are freebanders ? That would seem to be the indication from your previous post. Are you unable, or unwilling to back up your previous statements ???
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by K1OU on May 4, 2003
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Which is more fun? Reading this article, or watching a couple of old ladies swing their purses at each other?
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 4, 2003
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K1OU, I agree with you. I just get very irritated by
those like KC5NYJ that have this "everyone is
doing it...just leave them alone" attitude about
freebanding. Freebanding is just another type
of pirate radio.
KC5NYJ has stated "there is a significant number of complaintants here who started out on CB freeband and using illegal power, and likely still frequent that band from time to time just to show off their station."
So, KC5NYJ is accusing all of us of being freebanders.
That's an insult to all of us on this forum !!!
When I try to get him to explain his comment, he avoids
the issue...why ??? ...because he knows he cannot
defend himself...
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 4, 2003
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RADIO123US said:
"..What is really sad is that some of those that
the FCC has busted for freebanding lately have
had ham callsigns..."
and subsequently said:
"..The only people who I have ever
seen suggest that hams would operate freeband are the
ones trying to justify their own illegal operations there.."
*Is RADIO123US suggesting he himself might possibly be attempting to justify something?
RADIO123US also asked:
"..KC5NYJ, I found the following listings by you on
EHAM....Why are you looking for
CB radio equipment on a ham radio site ???.."
*Radio- Perhaps a better question might come from me, in the form of "Why are you stalking me"? Do I need to keep an eye out for you?
RADIO123US then stated:
"..This brings me back to my orginal question..do you
honestly think that most hams on this thread operate
freeband ???.."
*Radio- Just how a listing looking for a particular vintage CB radio might bring you around to a question concerning illegal operations on 11m is simply beyond comprehension. CB radios are and have been for some time a perfectly legal item. In fact, if you'll just type in "CB radio", "Dak", or any number of other related terms into the EHAM Classifieds search engine, you'll find many other hams who are interested in trading these items. Perhaps they, too, fail to meet your standards of Amateur Radioism. How unfortunate.
In any case, if you must have closure or resolution to help quell those urges to further investigate my every move, thought, comment or operating mode, let me take this opportunity to:
Offer an apology to others who might have taken personal offense to my earlier post. It was simply an off-the-cuff comment, and not meant to denigrate or malign. Let it suffice that I believe there are some hams who break the rules sometimes, and perhaps there are some hams who have broken rules or will break rules or have at one time or another contemplated having the slightest propensity to break rules who also happen to participate or have participated at one time or another in this forum or other forums. Sorry, but that's the way I feel. No Soup For Me.
now...someone, please take a look behind the hedge and tell me if he's still there.....
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 4, 2003
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"Offer an apology to others who might have taken personal offense to my earlier post. It was simply an off-the-cuff comment, and not meant to denigrate or malign"
Apology accepted...that's all I was looking for :)
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 4, 2003
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Yes much Pirate activity is in NYC.
Next time I am in a yellow cab,with a CB+++ I will report the medellian number.
Besides even if they are running a "stock CB", it is against TLC regulations.
I do not ride GYPSIE cabs unfortunitly. Gypsy RUN ALL SORTS OF POWER!
I Have noticed when ridding Yellow cabs, I ask what kind of CB are they using. They usualy turn the thing off, and will not speak to me the rest of the trip.
It maybe a infestesimal contribution, but it is better than nothing!
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 4, 2003
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RADIO!@#US-
http://www.eham.net/data/spotlight/images/e9acc168d18d9f6dfec4c5faf53973ed.jpg
Isn't that a Browning CB and Siltronix Model 90 vfo sitting there???? You don't suppose....naawwwwww..no way. It must be a "10m Radio"
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Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIO123US on May 5, 2003
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KC5NYJ, I have no idea what your point is here.
Why are you posting a picture of N9WQ's shack ???
Just for the record, I do not share your affection
for CB radio.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 5, 2003
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I didn't say that. I meant to say, or should have said that one doesn't necessarily need to be a "CBer" or have a "CB" mentality(whatever that is) to be enamoured with the cool upper scale gear that was manufactured for that service back in the heyday.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 5, 2003
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Could not believe it myself. I did once buy an antenna from COPPER.com, two years ago Worked well 10-20 meters.
Could not believe the array of so called 10 meter radio's. No mention of FCC licence required.
Some of thier high end radio's specs. output of 50 watts.
To Add triple insult to injury, they had something called an ultra-power mic. I guess the ULTRA is band splatter?
Why do all their 10 meter radio's have a channe1 40
displayed.(DAH!)
Too bad in a way. If a legit ham wanted 10&12 meters
all mode, one can purchase an all mode 10-20watt for
about $120
The poster idea sounds good to me. It is like when
a Deli is busted for selling drugs, A bright orange sticker is put on the store.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC8VWM on May 6, 2003
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I think that for one thing we should stop calling them "Pirates".
Pirate describes them as some sort of folklore character (less the eye patch and wooden leg) who is sailing the radio frequency spectrum in search of his DX bounty.
There are many fictional novels that display this type of character as almost "comical" or funny in nature.
In general this character representation is not taken very seriously.
For example,
"Arrrrr laddy .. ya goin to walk me plank and you will be spittin barnicles"
So then most of us usually get a little chuckle out of the way the pirate characterizes himself in this case.
The situation is how can anyone take the idea of "Pirates" on the airwaves seriously then?
I think it would be better to characterize this person more in line with the modern day computer hacker.
Computer hackers are well known to be sought after by many authorative figures in society while "Pirates" are generally only considered an inconvenient nuisance.
My food for thought,
73's
KC8VWM
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 6, 2003
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I agree Pirate is not a good description. There are REAL pirates that hold up privite craft at gun point.
No wooden leg or quaint lauguage. Just a Mach 10 or
UZI, and a get off the boat or else.
How about RADIOTRASH, RF SCUM, or freebone head.
There are all sorts of great deals on a site.
Full 1 kilowatt solid state, under $500.
One problem 10 meters only(Homer simpson saying DOH!)
They do sell 2M and 440 amps. I guess that is the legal loophole.
I would not mind buying such an amp that covered 20 meters only. However I would not want to give money
to company that is root cause of the problem.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W9WHE on May 6, 2003
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If a DX summit posting resulted in DOZENS of hams from around the world demanding they move and making pirate communications impossible on the ham bands...they WOULD move elsewhere.
Let's face it, if we make it painful enough to operate in the ham bands...they WILL go elsewhere.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W9WHE on May 6, 2003
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If a DX summit posting resulted in DOZENS of hams from around the world demanding they move and making pirate communications impossible on the ham bands...they WOULD move elsewhere.
Let's face it, if we make it painful enough to operate in the ham bands...they WILL go elsewhere.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by K9CSM on May 7, 2003
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I think we we are being far too polite.Lets face it:A 'Pirate' is one that transmits on a frequency and then leaves that freq. without identifying. Common example of that is heard all too often on all the HF bands. Certainly licensed operators would not transmit what we're all witness to on these bands EVERY DAY!
Secondly, what is this talk (on this subject) about Indonesia, China, and the like? If we could effectively clean our own front steps we'd have the problem 95% resolved. Simply get into a sensible
roundtable (maybe even controversial) discussion and see how many 'Pirates" you can count!
Ben Piller, K9CSM
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WORLDWIDE390 on May 7, 2003
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I just wanted to tell YOU GIRLS that lots of you HAMS are and were Cbers .
And that MOST of the 11 meter "freebanders" are not your typical Cbers, they want a better atmosphere, they don't want to deal with Joe troublemaker and they don't want to Talk to a bunch of pompous HAM operators like most of you on this site. You people should be worried about what would happen if you policed your own. Joe "no arm" ham cop will cry to Hollingsworth about you doing a phone patch or you wanting to better your TX audio quality..HA!....(as he is monitoring you on some old outdated set of Drake Twins) Look you people should be darn glad that the HF Bands are in use at all, cause the FCC are just waiting to sell them off to the highest bidder!. BTW : I bet my 1000mp and Henry 5K classic with my DBX Audio rack puts a few of your stations to shame.
We are taking over! And we are just starting! HA HA HA
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KB9ERU on May 7, 2003
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Thanks to all.
This is REALLY GOOD cheap entertainment. Nothing like watching a bunch of purses swinging...
Here's what I used to do before the OO's were called to monitor illegal activity on 10m:
I piped my computer generated RTTY into the MIC jack of my rig. Then, after tuning up on the "illegally occupied" freq, I began to call CQ in really long strings. Then I called a bunch of friends that I thought I could strike a QSO with, but luck would have it, they just weren't there to answer.
Then I noticed that the "pirate..Arrrr" moved. My VFO seemed to find them, and, making sure that there was not any "legitimate" communications going on, I called again, and again.
I usually repeated until they dropped below 28.0.
Setting the mark at 1700 Hz worked wonders!
They are not much for CW or PSK, but nothing REALLY shut them up like RTTY.
Food for thought.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WORLDWIDE390 on May 8, 2003
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Hey all of you ARRL Puppets, I'm getting tired of a bunch of ham operators slamming Cbers.
We Cbers have better things to do than JAM 10 meters (like KB9ERU does). If being a HAM consists of getting off your buts just long enough to open your package from AES and then putting your new gray box on the bench and talking, then I want no part of your kind! You see, us "Cbers" do what you hams don't do, and that is "Experiment" Yep you heard me! How many of you guys can build a 600hp 396 Chevy motor, put on a little giggle gas, 6 AC alternators and some big honk'n glass and kick out 30KW?
Not a one of you can even get off your buts long enough to keep your 1982 Skylark road worthy!
Come on over to Sugarhouse Park in beautiful Salt Lake City Utah(just off I-80) on Saturday July 5th 2003, and check out our annual 27.025 Superbowl KEYDOWN. You will then see some real radio stations. Just look for some REAL big Antennas.
So wash up those Mayonnaise stained 60s dress shirts of yours, and check out what real radio station is all about!... Rev. Dr. GroundPlane out!
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KE6OUD on May 8, 2003
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Sounds like a good place & time for the FCC to have a ball at too! :)
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 8, 2003
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A note in history. Major Armstrong(a HAM)invented the superhetrodyne radio, as well as FM STEREO.
During world war II, the allied forces had a great tactical advantage, FM modulation. No ignition noise.
The NAZIES used AM. Every time they wanted to talk from the jeep or tank, they had to turn off the engine.
Hams have done public service since ham radio's inception. Where were you freebanders after the US was attacted 9/11. Many HAMS risked there lives are lost time from work providing emergency communications.
I am not going to stoop low and say...who is swinging a perse now!
My attitude towards FREEBANDING is live and let live.
Most of you are OK. I just do not like having 1000watt
11M AM mobiles blasting through my stereo!
I do not like NARCO-TRAFFICKERS and TERRORISTS using
any frequency be it HAM, 11M or FREEBAND. I think you feel the same way.
Many hams are not elitist. Many would be more than glad to help you pass the test and get your HAM ticket.
This way you can have your cake and eat it too.
You have 6meters, 2meters,440, and up to microwaves.
If you like to experiment, you can do it legally
with a no-code tech ticket. You can still have your CB
just stay within FCC limits. With a Ham ticket if you like POWER, you can have POWER legally.
Most hams including myself however do not like echo
reverb, and distortion. Is that being elitist, I think not! When you do crank up a power microphone and use a CB has excessive power, some of you transmit byproducts could interfere with emergency communications. You do not want to do that! CB's channel 9 is useless in some area's
If hams were so elitest, EHAM would censor you.
Did they, no. Some hams did start out with CB.
So you can get no code ticket or you can still FREEBAND
Just remember that the FCC sometimes gets lucky and does catch FREEBANDERS.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KG4OOA on May 8, 2003
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You suggested that "Freebanders" "Pirates" or whatever you want to call them are only poor misguided souls that a little bit of Elmering will help. I am sorry but I respectfully disagree with you. They are outlaws! The reason that they are what they are is because they think they are above the law! In some of the ranting posts that came off of this forum today shows me the same attitude as I have seen displayed by criminals, biker gangs and all other sorts of social miss-fits.
Think about it. The I didn't know I needed a license don't hold water. Even a idiot reading the posts could surmize that some sort of license is required to operate on ham bands and it appears that they have a rudimentry understanding of reading and wrtiing the English language.
I don't give a rats about what is done on 11 meters as long as they stay there. The problem is they don't stay there!
I know that I will be called an elitist! Thank you. The elite is the best and I am proud to do my best I am not ashamed if you call me that. It is what we all need to strive for.
Bob,KG4OOA
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KB9ERU on May 8, 2003
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Ok ladies, it seems that I have caused a few purses to swing, and I am bored, so here goes...
1) IF you can find ANYWHERE in Part 97 that calling CQ is illegal, I might turn my head far enough to see your point of view, that is, IF you were licensed.
2) I am licensed. I sat down, studied, was tested, and was granted a license from the FCC. Now if some "wanna-be" that is unlicensed shows up on the frequencies dedicated for amateur use (and is not transmitting any distress traffic), I am not going to let him/her interfere with my wanting to occupy the frequency. That is not jamming. Some tune up on y'all. Some send SSTV test patterns. I call CQ. Like it or not, that's pretty much how it is.
3) Mr. Hollingsworth was good enough to clarify this for us, er, Hams:
Anyone transmitting a distress call has precedence over anyone else, even if an unlicensed/illegal transmitter interferes with a legal transmission. However, if a licensed amateur transmits over a pirate, then it is perfectly legal. In this scenario, the pirate is causing interference to a legally authorized transmission.
4) Radio cop eh? I would have really expected a better insult than that. Especially one who isn't licensed.
That's a BIG ROGER 4 Come-on.
Yep, I used to be a CB'er, then I grew up.
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by WA2JJH on May 8, 2003
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You got it wrong. I never said thy we all misguided souls in need of elmering! Do not put words in my mouth!
I do not see it as a total black or white issue.
I am do not like the fact that FREEBANDING EXIST's.
But it does. Unfortunitly no one can save the world, much less stop all illegal transmission.
Some FREEBANDERS are TOTAL MISCREANTS! NARCOTRAFFICERS are RF scum. Illegal GYPSIE CAB
RADIO's, should be ripped out of the DASH.
I have talked to many fine hams on 440 that made the
transisition. One of them is a cop I know. He never went over legal limit on 11M. He was into SSB. Had a nice shack.His radio manner was excellent, due to using his MOTOROLA SABER on the job. He knew he could do better. I was glad to elmer him.
He did hear and read a GREAT DEAL OF NARCISTIC attitude from HAMS. He was actually intimidated by some of the attitudes.(He does not like to let people know he is on the job) He said why should I become a Ham, only to to be able to COP A TUDE towards his CB friends! Yeah he still talks to his cb friends.
Visa-Vi freebanders, when I said live and let live, it is at the expense of them being caught by the FCC.
That is when the FCC is not to busy giving out letters for HI-FI SSB, and not using the official air force phonetics, I personally like using the official phonetics.
If you listen to local police frequecies they do not use the airforce phonetics.Instead of KILO they use KING. Instead of delta, they use DAVID. More Biblical
less military.I know 4 phonetic alphabets, from different services and jobs. I do use the officail phonetic alphabet on Ham radio. If I do that in the news business, I am considered a space cadet nut.
If a CBer that wants to get thier ticket, should I COP A TUDE! NFW! I am very selective to who I will elmer.
I have found many good hearted hams on 440. They came from CB. NO,IT IS NOT MY BUSINESS TO ASK ABOUT THIER CB
EXPERIENCE! They do their share of public service work.
They hate the fact they are a no code tech. They are going to upgrade if I take an interest.
One of my tactics is when they call one the telephone, I will only talk in morse code for a few minutes, untill they say they will learn the code. If a cop a tude about about there lack of cw, they will not be motivated.
The ones that are decent people, I do elmer. You got a problem with that?
The more you bash the FREEBANDERS, The more they will
pester you. Unless you are willing to go out with a DF device, you do not accomplish a single thing!
I have sent in my share of complaint letters to the FCC
They will hopefully catch the depraved ones.
So when I said live and let live, you took it out of context
I have to deal with ELITISM at the university I attend.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIOWEENIE on May 9, 2003
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Hello Phineas--
What are some good phonetics for your call? Can you think of some good ones for "K. M. A."??
Cheers,
--RW
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by N0NYA on May 9, 2003
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i do believe eventually we can lose 10 meters (and even 12 for that matter)...
dont think it can happen?
well go to walmart and buy you a 22 channel 'FRS' radio...
yep, they talk on GMRS and the FCC loves them.. unless you get a 15 channel radio, you will see nothing on them about GMRS liscensing
want another example?
ok VHF 'dot' frequencies.. once apon a time you had to have a liscence for them, well the problem got so bad that now 5 channels are open to the public and called MURS..
so a recap, GMRS is threatended, and they took 5 business frequencies and made them public...
what makes you think hams are any different?
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by RADIOWEENIE on May 9, 2003
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KC5NYJ--
You are certainly not listening in the right places. If you want to catch pirates, 10m is DEFINITELY the place to do it. Try 28.0 to 29.0 MHz either sideband-- and AM. And if you are around an interstate highway then keep "your 10m ears on" at 28.xxx MHz, gud buddy. You WILL hear pirates. Guaranteed.
73 de,
--RW
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by N0NYA on May 9, 2003
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forgot one other thing.. the problem isnt just with hams and such..
i know of atleast one motorola authorized radio shop that has programmed 800mhz maxtracs to an arbitrary frequency for a hunting club.. seems the hunting club wanted a private channel and this guy thought that 800mhz would be really private...
now before you scream that the FCC will nail them, remember they have been in operation for YEARS!
Also, anyone can buy a maxtrac on ebay and a 20.00 programming cable, pop into your local website and boom, you are anywhere you want to be..
bottom line? Enforcement begins with the governing body incharge of it.. ie FCC?? hello FCC?? hmm must be too busy selling off spectrum to care..
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 9, 2003
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GMRS/FRS is strange. The some of the channels are shared. Motorola makes their combe radio's legal.
One the shared channels the power is cut to 500mw, on the gmrs they go to 1-2 watts.
No other manufacturer does this.
Some h-t's will provide up to 3 watts on FAMILY RADIO SERVICE. I hear ultra bad CB like activity. Cursing,making threats, and just plain old jamming with all the tone do-hickeys
embedded in the radio.
A friend of mine with kids asked me which one should I buy. I told them the low power ones with speech scambling. The Motorola 6200 series. This way the kids no not hear all the insanity, or some pervert can't find the kids.
There are plenty of GMRS repeaters as well. They sound like hams, but they are not.
It is a good thing these radio's cannot be "OPENED UP"
to transmit anywhere else.
I never thought I would see a day where one could purchase a quality UHF H-T for under $20.
When I ws a kid we were lucky to have a 3 channel 100mw walkie talkie on cb.
Back then GMRS was called class E CB or something like that. The h-t's were single channel for $500
On GMRS I hear lots of what sound like drug deals,
and other sleezy stuff. I here plenty of CB sounding stuff. Parents should think twice about buying an unencryted FRS. It would make for an all too effective canner for pedophiles.
I hope GMRS will quench the thirst for those that want high power UHF. One is supposed to file with the FCC for $75. Maybe the FCC should drop the fee, so all of these 1-25 watt uhf radio's will be accounted for.
A manditory sub audable cw I.D. should be built in.
If not GMRS with scrambling can be used by skells.
Supply and demand. There is a lot of demand.
Like another poster said I hope the day does not come when the FCC will make part of 10Meters some type of service. A FMRS...,Family mobile radio service.
The electronic lobbyist can argue that cell phones are too expensive. Lets have a 100 watt limit. This way families do not have to use a cell phone
I am sure consumers will want an HF FRS service.
aHH GEE I JUST WANT TO KEEP TRACK OF MY 18 YEAR OLD DRIVING.
How did that Powel kid get his job at the FCC!?
What are his qualifications,
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KE6OUD on May 10, 2003
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Why do people of your caliber choose to use a cb type call sign of "RADIOWEENIE " instead of logging in as an FCC registered Ham radio operator? Are you one? Just curious.........
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by N0GV on May 10, 2003
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Hmmmm....
Pirates are a problem but so are the 6 kHz wide Yo-Yo's out there who have opened up their xmit filters and splatter all over the next 12 kHz as well due to the soft slopes of their filters.... The primary problem comes from the requirement that only enough power and bandwidth to achieve reliable communications be used... Wide Band SSB is NOT within the rules and, given that it actually splatters a 12 kHz band would reduce the 20m phone band to ~20 simultaneous QSOs of that type!!!!! 350 minus 150 kHz divided by 12 kHz = 17.... ;-)
Pirates outside the US are something we cannot deal with in the US. Our internal problems are quite another matter.... A commercial trucker with a radar detector will forfeit his license for having it in a commercial vehicle -- DOT inspectors check for them. They could just as easily look for illegal (read not type accepted CB's) and confiscate.....
Just a thought....
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 10, 2003
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my thought, putting the 4 SSB hi-Fi ops together with pirates and bootleggers is stupid!
The four used barely more than 3khz of spectra.
With todays technology, should the FCC make all hams go and buy out 1.8khz transmit bandpass filters.
1.8 is all you need for SSB.
3 khz was the bandwidth need to have the type of QSO's they wanted to have. The HI_FI websit has a copy off the FCC rules.
They were helpfull and high profile.People just got jealous.
If they never had the website, nobody would have noticed.The FCC never went after the ultra wide band 6khz people that spaltter jammed thier frequency 14.178
with full DSB and music.
I am glad that a lawyer is going agianst the FCC in this case.
Calling your fellow hams bozo's, thats not nice. You also do not know all the facts. They never ran 6khz of full spectra. Their signal had no more interference than someone with too much mic gain, or a crappy DSP
speech processor.
I am also in awe of your mathematical skills. Baised to fit your hypothosis. For your dooms day senerio, you reaaly think 20M would be cut down to 17 channels.
Is everyone all in (0) land running 6khz, and is on 24/7!
Just the truth!
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Dealing with Pirates
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by THREEDOUBLEDEUCE on May 10, 2003
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After watching these posts for a while now on many subjects, I have found that my gusto to study and get a license is really starting to fizzle... Only due to the personality types that seem attracted to this hobby. Radio is great! I like to build and experiment, but I can guarantee that I will avoid each so called "ham" that has ever posted (or should I say displayed) his views on any of these cursed boards. I for one am through looking at your "expertise" and "knowledge" of radio and your outright worship of Riley Hollingsworth and the FCC! I respect the laws too, but clearly almost all you guys are holding your terds tightly! I once knew a guy back home that was a ham who died about 10 years ago of old age, and he and his friends were nothing like any of you. He was excited about the hobby, and actually knew how to build things and problem solve. I am not certain there are any more of those left in this new breed of "hams". As soon as I pass my exam I assure you I am keeping a low profile, as you guys are giving the hobby a bad name.
Regards,
Darnell
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 10, 2003
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Doubleduce,I have elmered plenty of people from CB.
I have found they try harder to be good hams, because of anti-CB bias.
I build my share of equipment. On an EPUB people just vent more than on the air.
I do not worship Rielly Hollinsworth. I also prefred the FCC of OLD. I have been in the hobby 26 years.
Since the FCC deregulated, I have seen things get worse.
The FCC of old, knew that hams for the most part invented radio, television and microwave technology.
I think if the FCC had its way they would sell off ham bands even quicker.
However, hams do have an attitude towards a small minority of CBers that just use any power or frequency
that we had to get tested for.
If you have ever listened to 440mhz, you wil hear many no-code techs that came from CB. I have found them to be excellent operators, because they feel they have to prove something.
In all fairness how can you just judge any person by a few rants on an EPUB. It seems EPUBS are where hams let their complaints be heard. They do not do it on the air. We know we will never get a ranting published in QST!
The same way you do not want to be judged because you came from CB, I do not think we should be judged by our rantings in an EPUB. Lighten up!
Many Ham epubs do not have this much lattitude. I guess with lattitude comes attitude.
Yes, I do concede to you that ham radio unity was greater years ago.Also having a Ham radio ticket years ago would give you an edge in competing for a job.
I have elmered many make the transisition from CB to Ham. Many ask, should I through away my CB? I say no,you still have friends there.
Hams do not like people that use the bands we worked for,get used illegally. Common sense right.
Just like when you are on CB, you hate it when somebody will play music over the same channel for days, right?! Or when somebody curses on the radio, while your kids are in earshot of your radio.
These are all common sense values that Hams and CBers
share. I am sure you have build all sorts of electronic projects that you are proud of!
If you get your ticket, you can build your own transmitters, you can use on the air legally!
There are some nice kits. What I do is buy a kit then
modify it they way I WANT TOO. With a ham ticket you can modify a CB for 10-12 meters legally.
When the sunspot cycle was hot about 15 years ago, modifying old CB rigs for 10 meters was very hot!
I do not have a problem with CBers at all. Except when CB is used for illegal activity, excessive power that blasts my stereo. I think this is commen sense.
One final note many of us here, E-ELMER. So before you say...I would not talk to anyone that post's here,
many of us, when we are not ranting do answer questions!
Hope you get your ticket, and do not keep a low profile!
MIKE
Ham radio is used for emergency's many times.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2DTW on May 11, 2003
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I have nothing against CB'ers and quite respect them. During the first few years after we lost 11 meters, CBers were given identifying call signs. If they were again issued call signs (distinct from Ham call signs) this could solve some of the problem, since law-abiding CBers would identify. And I believe they would be proud of their call signs.
I have a big problem with unlicensed operators who transmit on the ham bands. These are NOT CBers, but bootleggers. (whether or not they also legally transmit on 11 meters is immaterial).
Electronics stores have sold equipment capable of transmitting on the ham bands to unlicensed operators. THis practice should be strictly illegal, and should lead to prosecution. And Hams should boycott businesses that sell such equipment to unlicensed operators.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 11, 2003
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"..If they never had the website, nobody would have noticed.The FCC never went after the ultra wide band 6khz people that spaltter jammed thier frequency 14.178
with full DSB and music.
.."
and therein lies the problem. It's OK for hams to break the rules, but NOT ok for anybody else to experiment.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 11, 2003
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FYI, the fur hams that got citations were from a result of anonymoues letters. It is so grey arae as to if thy were breaking the law. A lawyer has been called in to decide. The four used about 3khz of bandidth. Not 6KHZ that would be double sideband. They just wanted a better soounding SSB. It sounded like AM.
It was an engineering feat.
They would use the modulation transfer factor.
Process the audio uo to 10khz, then sqeeze it back into 3khz. They went public with there no donald duck sideband. It is 3khz enhanced SSB.
In the old days of side band collins and others used 3khz filters instead of todays 2.4-2.7 khz.
I agree that 6khz wide DSB is not considerate. You just have two idendical sidebands.
Am is still allowed that is 6khz. A very commen thing is for people by accident or on purpose punch up the wrong filter combo giving 6khz.
If you look at NU9N.coms wesite you see amny hifi and low fi improvements for your shack. He has the FCC
rules right their. Some peoples interpretation is you must use absloutly the minimum nandwidth for communication. That would be 1.8khz, A 2.6khz rig with too much mic gain or compressor will generate junk up and blow 3khz.
The group was in a heil mic ad campain. The Website is a must see. They had ways to get regular SSB to sound better too. They were true experimenters!. It takes about $5000 worth of commercial grde audio processing to get the clearer more robust sidebnd sound.
There argument is 3khz is the bandwidth they need for that mode. They Stayed on one fequency. They were jammed by 6khz DSB. So all thought they were using.
6khz. A LAWYER WILL HAVE TO STRAINTEN THIS ONE OUT.
A lawyer volunteere. It is such grey letter law!
They were always very helpfull in the ham spirit. A shame a few OCD_AR's ruin it for everybody
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KC5NYJ on May 12, 2003
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Please clarify.
"..The group was in a heil mic ad campain.."
Since when is the amateur band allowed to be used as a commercial advertising vehicle?
Ok, far be it from me or anybody else to diminish the efforts of these HiFi Hams. I think it's a great educational project and spectacular display of affluence which will have NO impact on practical radio applications, since the problems of HiFi SSB broadcasting have already been worked out by commercial SW broadcasters long ago. The average consumer of SW broadcasts cannot or will not afford a $1500 receiver to listen to HiFi SSB of a commercial nature.
Let's be serious here. There is no shame in these guys wanting to "play broadcaster". It's fun. Lots of folks like to play radio out there. We call them "pirates".
I find NU9N's website comment "The average listener has not been educated to understand this wide/narrow scenario, although some common sense will apply here" particularly offensive. The fact is the contrary. The average amateur radio listener DOES in fact understand that a station is occupying more than the allocated bandwidth and defying common engineering practice for that segment, based on the type of equipment generally used and accepted by the FCC for the amateur service. "Common Sense" dictates you adhere to a sort of "gentlemen's agreement" as well as observe the technical minutiae.
Again, I'm not suggesting the great feats of audio engineering are not impressive in the realm of ham radio audio, but in reality, coming from a broadcasting background, I find it rather ho-hum.
The "apologetics" are tantamount to a kid with a 1000w rolling boombox trying to explain why he feels it is necessary to bombard the neighborhood with audio that is annoying and potentially interfering with the accepted norms and rights of other users of the sound spectrum. Nobody is telling the kid not to listen to music, but to just KEEP IT DOWN!!!
WA2JJH' comment that it takes "$5000 worth of commercial grade processing" is proof that the experimentation will lead to no practical application, nor will it enhance the hobby for the masses. Thousands of COMMERCIAL broadcasters each use thousands of dollars worth of COMMERCIAL gear to get high fidelity audio. This is AMATEUR radio, not amateur BROADCASTING, and there is really little room on the band for grandstanding at the expense of others.
So what if you drive a Lotus? You are still required to observe the speed limit.
Have fun guys, and danged if your setups don't sound absolutely phenomenal, but you ain't foolin nobody 'round here ;-)
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Dealing with Pirates
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by WA2JJH on May 12, 2003
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Well NYJ,lets just see what the lawyers says, you are not going to change my mind, or others period.
Most of them, including myself hd expensive suidp gear purchased dirt cheap. It was no where near $5000.
Anyway I see you like to argue for argumnets sake. I got finals. TO ALL ON THIS POST, I WILL NOT RESPOND.
saw YOUR BACK AND FORTH ARGUMENTS WITH OTHERS. I GOT BETTER THINGS TO DO.
We will see what the Lawyer says, about Hi-FI
Simple as that
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by W5ONV on May 12, 2003
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I thought that we were talking about pirates. Now they are talking about wide band ssb.Whats going on anyway ?
I think that they all got side tracked somewhere along the way. WAKE UP ! Please wake up !
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by K1OU on May 13, 2003
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Wow, this is fun. Anybody up for a debate about VHF QRP SSB?
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by WA9SVD on May 27, 2003
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This comment is a bit late, but FCC rule Patt 97.101(d) states that it's illegal to "willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal."
It does NOT specify legal or illegal, licensed or unlicensed, emergency or not, so I take that to mean interference to ANY communication, even if a "pirate, freebander" or whatever you wish to call it. (Besides, that's just stooping to the level of the pirates, etc.)
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by BASKET on June 18, 2003
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I can't believe that KB9ERU is willfully telling his fellow ham operators that he is a proud HAM. Maybe he is a ham without any brains. He is admitting to sending out jamming signals to Police the illigals using the ham bands using terrorist and Vigilante methods. Where did this guy take his ham test and who is responsible for giving this guy the impression that he can send out (willfully jamming) test patterns to thwart anyone from doing anything on any freq. KB9ERU, You need to retake your ham test and clean up your (CH19) Mentality. You CANNOT transmit ANY oneway communication. Sure you can claim you are sending out CQ,s but as you stated clearly in an earlier post, that was not your intention! Finding loopholes and abusing your Amature privilage is much worse of a moral offence than the CB,ers transmitting on illigal bands. And being somone who has studied and passed the Amature test PROVES your conseption of YOUR ham status is all ludicrous. (no Brains)Do you know what being a Vigilate means? I hope you are proud to post your callsign here and proving what a NON-Ham you really are. By the way, When I use the term ch19 mentality, I am not slamming CB,ers. Just observing and comparing KB9ERU with the ONE Channels mentality. And KB9ERU say,s he grew up!!! Hahaha
By the way, I will be attending the annual Keydown in Sugarhouse Park in Salt Lake City, Utah on July 5th 2003.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KB9ERU on June 18, 2003
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Wow, I thought this topic was long gone....seems a few are still trying to keep it alive....
BASKET:
It's painfully obvious that I indeed have brains in my head. Look at your post. I can spell, can you?
You can't read. In your post, you said I send out "test patterns" when I was referring to a previous post by a licensed ham. Test patterns are for SSTV. I use PSK31 and RTTY. There is no SSTV in PSK31 or RTTY. Here are a few more observations:
"To thwart anyone from doing anything on any freq" is really a joke. If you read my last post, you would have seen that I was speaking of the 10 meter band, period. I do not "jam" anyone. If an illegal QSO is going on, and I happen to call CQ on top of it, so be it. I am respectful enough to leave LEGAL QSO's alone.
"You need to retake your ham test and clean up your (CH19) Mentality." I didn't see your call sign. Do you have one, or do you just like to lash out in stupidity?
I mean, if you DID have a call, why hide it? You seem to know NOTHING about the "ham" test, rules, or operating procedures.
"You CANNOT transmit ANY oneway communication." Yes I can. One word-Beacon. You really need to educate yourself before stepping up to the mic. I suggest Part 97.
I mean, do you really think you are going to show up here and cause a rebellion? You are the one that is brainless. All of you unlicensed folks want to say that KB9ERU is a bad ham. Some of you said that it is people like me that keep you out of this hobby. I feel proud in doing that, the LAST thing we need is more idiots like you on the bands. Think I'm bad? Listen to 20 meters a while. Thank you for the compliment, I sincerely hope my comments keep ALL of you illegal folks out of the hobby.
And to WA9SVD:
Mr. Hollingsworth was good enough to clarify this for us, Hams:
Anyone transmitting a distress call has precedence over anyone else, even if an unlicensed/illegal transmitter interferes with a legal transmission. However, if a licensed amateur transmits over a pirate, then it is perfectly legal. In this scenario, the pirate is causing interference to a legally authorized transmission.
Yes that is not in Part 97, but, it was from Mr. Hollingsworth of the FCC. That is good enough for me, and it should be for you too. I am not going to let illegal, non-distress traffic get in my way of making a QSO. The man has email. Ask him for yourself if you like.
Does it mean I sit at home every night and seek out illegal QSO's? Nope. But if I happen to pick a frequency that is "illegally occupied" like 28.085 (RTTY calling) and let them have it, oh well.
That's the advantage of being licensed.
KB9ERU
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by BASKET on June 21, 2003
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>(BASKET: It's painfully obvious that I indeed have brains in my head. Look at your post. I can spell, can
you? )
Since when did typos account for ones ability to spell?
If you need to attack someone in your defence, Show some intelligence and stay on topic.
Here's a statement for your last post and compare it to your prior post.
>("To thwart anyone from doing anything on any freq" is really a joke. If you read my last post,you would have seen that I was speaking of the 10 meter band, period. I do not "jam" anyone.If an illegal QSO is going on, and I happen to call CQ on top of it, so be it. I am respectful enough to leave LEGAL QSO's alone.(<
Oh Really! A Joke? Since when is a licensed Ham sending strings of CQ's and then moving when they do to send more strings of CQ's to anyone on any freq called "a Joke"
Copied From your Post on May 7 2003
">(Here's what I used to do before the OO's were called to monitor illegal activity on 10m: I piped my computer generated RTTY into the MIC jack of my rig. Then, after tuning up on the "illegally occupied" freq, I began to call CQ in really long strings. Then I called a bunch of friends that I thought I could strike a QSO with, but luck would have it, they just weren't there to answer.)<"
Darn, I bet that wasnt intentional. That is called a loophole
Then when the Pirates moved somehow your VFO followed them?? Here's is another Quote from you in the same letteron may 7, next phrase
">(Then I noticed that the "pirate..Arrrr" moved. My VFO seemed to find them, and, making sure that there was not any "legitimate" communications going on, I called again, and again. I usually repeated until they dropped below 28.0. Setting the mark at 1700 Hz worked wonders! They are not much for CW or PSK, but nothing REALLY shut them up like RTTY. Food for thought.)>"
You are very clearly stating that you would even follow them when they moved to get away from your "so called" legitimate calling of CQ. So what? you think your friends followed you?
>("You CANNOT transmit ANY oneway communication." Yes I can. One word-Beacon. You really need to educate yourself before stepping up to the mic. I suggest Part 97.")<
Oh Really? Is this what you are going to claim in your defence of following pirates down the bands and transmitting your computer generated one way CQ communications until they fall below 28.0?
One word beacon has nothing to do with this issue or topic, and you know it. Don't play stupid and stay on (one word)task.
Again, and still standing by my first statement. you need to retake your test. This time get a tutor.
Clean up your act of abusing your computer/Ham License/Pirates/
Let Hollingsworth do this job.
What I don't think you understand is. There are people who might want to use the freq who cannot hear the pirates but can clearly hear you. Get it?
To them the freq is clear until you start sending strings of CQ's to "Jam Pirates" all the way down to below 28.0
by the way, I will not post my call sign here because I am scared to death of people like you that look for ways to do things through loop holes to put you above the laws of this country.
What would posting my callsign do to prove this point anyways? I am a ham Period.
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RE: Basket Case
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by KB9ERU on June 21, 2003
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>Since when did typos account for ones ability to spell?
If you need to attack someone in your defence, Show some intelligence and stay on topic.<
Show some intelligence and start caring about your work, and others who choose to read it. Hams care about their work.
Use a spell check program...
Here's the topic, Dealing With Pirates, not attempting to call me brainless, a jammer, or start a fight. I suggest you do the same and stay on topic.
…But KB9ERU, I just want to attack you, please don’t attack me….
>Oh Really! A Joke? Since when is a licensed Ham sending strings of CQ's and then moving when they do to send more strings of CQ's to anyone on any freq called "a Joke".<
Any frequency?? We are still speaking of the 10 meter band. No where in any of my posts did I say I "jam as you call it" ANYONE on any frequencies on any or all bands.
From my previous post:
>making sure that there was not any "legitimate" communications going on, I called again, and again<
See, I listen BEFORE I transmit. I do not "jam" the frequency as you say.
Last time I checked, I can and do call CQ wherever the gentlemen's agreement and band plan allows. If illegal activity is going on, so what? Are YOU the one that keeps getting RTTY in your ears? I mean, what's your problem? Have YOU been PERSONALLY affected by me on the bands? Give me some example dates and frequencies and we'll talk...as soon as you come up with a VALID license. What kind of ham hides his call anyway...are you ashamed to be a ham? I guess the same kind of ham that goes to "keydowns" huh?
...But KB9ERU, It's OK for ME to be above the law, that’s a Big Roger-4 there…..
Yep, I'll say it once again, if I want to use the frequency that I am licensed to use, I'll use it. If illegal operators are causing QRM it's not going to stop me. That's that.
>("You CANNOT transmit ANY oneway communication." Yes I can. One word-Beacon. You really need to educate yourself before stepping up to the mic. I suggest Part 97.")
Oh Really? Is this what you are going to claim in your defence of following pirates down the bands and transmitting your computer generated one way CQ communications until they fall below 28.0?<
Nope, I wouldn't do that. I'm just pointing out that you have NO idea what you are talking about. I CAN transmit one-way communication when you said I couldn't. I could set up a beacon and I would be transmitting one-way communication. Just pointing out that if you ARE a ham, you have a lot of homework to do before stepping up to the mic. I don't need defense. Who do I need to explain my station operation to? You? Whatever.
And beacon operation has nothing to do with calling CQ. I don’t call CQ in a loop and not answer back like you say…
Educate yourself.
>Again, and still standing by my first statement. you need to retake your test. This time get a tutor.<
Like you said, if you need to attack someone in your defense, show some intelligence and stay on topic.
>What I don't think you understand is. There are people who might want to use the freq who cannot hear the pirates but can clearly hear you. Get it?<
Might want to use the frequency and using it are 2 different things, Get it?
I ask “is the frequency in use”, Get it?
If they don’t hear me, and I don’t hear them, that’s it, Get it?
I'm not in it to ruin it for hams, and I have not had a single complaint about the operation of my station yet.
In fact, some join in and start a QSO with me. In our QSO we discuss the pirates. The ONLY ones that seem to have ANY trouble with my station operation ARE the pirates, especially those here on eHam.
Tell you what, let's meet somewhere for coffee and we can discuss it man-to-man instead of here wasting post space. That way we can get it over with. You know my email address. Bring your license, I have to see it for myself. I can't possibly believe that a ham like you has zero knowledge about operating modes, emissions, rules and regulations.
>by the way, I will not post my call sign here because I am scared to death of people like you that look for ways to do things through loop holes to put you above the laws of this country.
What would posting my callsign do to prove this point anyways? I am a ham Period.<
Scared of what is the question. I am not above the law, and we are NOT talking about laws of the country. The topic is "Dealing With Pirates", not shooting your mouth off. Stay on topic.
I think you are scared of what would happen if anyone found out you are a pirate, that or getting busted at a “keydown” by the FCC!
-.. . -.- -... ----. . .-. ..- -.--.
Mick KB9ERU
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RE: Basket Case
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by BASKET on June 22, 2003
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>Here's the topic, Dealing With Pirates, not attempting to call me brainless, a jammer, or start a fight. I suggest you do the same and stay on topic.
…But KB9ERU, I just want to attack you, please don’t attack me….>
Did you say that last sentence in a whine?
it really looks that way.
I see you are going to try and tell me what the topic was? Every post to you was very well on topic. Do you want me to spell it out to you?
You are brainless because you took the ham test and knowingly twisted and streched the written word of the FCC (Laws of this country.)
But in fact another part of the test requires you to not send out one way transmissions to stalk and Jam unlicensed pirates which you admited sending the strings of CQ's out on one freq, then when the pirates moved you moved also.
That is called STALKING. You were STALKING THEM. And even you claimed you stalked them and sent one way strings of RTTY until they moved below 28.0. Are you going to deny you posted that on may 7 2003?
You also claim this statement was NOT on topic: "you need to re-take your test this time get a tutor" This is very well on topic. Do I have to spell this one out to you too?
When I made that comment, I was pointing out what you need to do to solve your problem about stalking and jamming pirates by getting a tutor to teach you how to be a good ham when it's obvious you are just trying to twist the laws of the country and the way hams should conduct themselves in a respectable manner.
As a matter of fact you were trying to pat yourself on the back by exposing your loophole by posting here and trying to teach other new Hams it was ok to act in the manner you did by showing them your ludicrous loophole as to be claiming you were calling for friends by sending out strings of CQ's using RTTY and continuing to stalk them until they dropped below 28.0. Calling it "Food For Thought" in your statement on may 7 2003.
Are you going to claim you did NOT post that on May 7 2003?
Try to claim to me that was NOT on Topic of your stalking and jamming pirates.
>>I am not above the law, and we are NOT talking about laws of the country. The topic is "Dealing With Pirates", not shooting your mouth off. Stay on topic.<<
I guess i have to spell this one out to you to as I see you are having a problem relating it to the subject again.
Your right, WE are not talking about the laws of this country.
I am!
The FCC laws for you mean nothing but a way to pick through them to find loopholes and exposing them to other hams here by giving them "FOOD FOR THOUGHT" as stated in your may 7 2003 post
And it again is very well related to the same subject.
I made several comments to you about the laws of this country and by showing everyone here you can be vindictive enough to "((Stalk them and tx ONE WAY RTTY until they fall below 28.0))" Shows your anger for non licensed pirates and your ability to twist the laws of this country to lash out at them for being pirates.
isn't this Hollingsworth's Job?
Then how far would you stoop to to get back at someone who confronts you about your mischivous deliberate behavior of Sending strings of CQ using RTTY until they fall below 28.0.
This should cover two of your silly last replies
1. why I won't post my call sign
2. the relation to my comments of my statement of the "laws of the Country" to your behavior towards stalking and transmitting strings of CQ using RTTY until THEY fall below 28.0"
And you want me to post my call letters!
What is wrong with your reading??
I clearly told you why I wasn't going to post my call letters in this Comment as follows:
>>by the way, I will not post my call sign here because I am scared to death of people like you that look for ways to do things through loop holes to put you above the laws of this country. What would posting my callsign do to prove this point anyways? I am a ham Period.<<
Then your very first sentance to this was:
>>Scared of what is the question. I am not above the law<<
What part of that did you not understand?
Dude, The answer to your stupid question was only a paragraph up as I very clearly stated.
And
You ((ARE)) placing yourself above the law by Stalking pirates and sending out strings of CQ's using RTTY until THEY fall below 28.0.
You are also unwittingly jamming up this freq for future legitimate hams. You said you checked the freq to see if it was clear before sending out your strings of CQ's using RTTY
BUT
Did you ask and see if it was going to be used in the future? Mayhaps someone had a time to meet there but was horribly rejected by your strings of CQ's using RTTY(until THEY fell below 28.0)
you were displaying Pathetic Ignorance for someone who desperatly needed to make that legitimate contact. Then you showed that same pathetic Ignorance by posting it in here as "FOOD FOR THOUGHT"
>>Nope, I wouldn't do that. I'm just pointing out that you have NO idea what you are talking about. I CAN transmit one-way communication when you said I couldn't>>
Oh but I do know exactly what I am talking about.
Have you ever had to deal with a minor child who twisted what you said around just to confuse the topic, when in fact their twisted perception was not even on the topic at all.
You know they should have used what is called common sense to know exactly what you meant.
By committing yourself to your answer of using one word beacon has, and Is, in no possible way related to this topic at all
UNLESS
You are going to claim this as your defence for the deliberate Stalking and sending out Strings of CQ's (until THEY fall below 28.0)
OR
you can find some other lame excuse to relate it.
>>All of you unlicensed folks want to say that KB9ERU is a bad ham<<
I told you, I was licensed and you ((ARE)) unwittingly a "BAD HAM"
>>We are still speaking of the 10 meter band. No where in any of my posts did I say I "jam as you call it" ANYONE on any frequencies on any or all bands.>>
Yes you very clearly indicated in your may 7th 2003 post that your VFO accidently followed some pirates while you were transmitting strings of CQ's using RTTY (until THEY went below 28.0)
That Means you did say it! DUH!
>>Tell you what, let's meet somewhere for coffee and we can discuss it man-to-man<<
Are you going to show me your ham muscles?
Do you think this will change the fact that you posted here your aggressive behavior towards Pirates by sending out strings of CQ's of RTTY (until THEY fall below 28.0)
AND
To try to educate other hams what the loopholes are so they can also practice the same ludicrous acts.
Wake up!!!! even the acts of god almighty himself can't change those facts.
I just covered all your diluted "FOOD FOR thoughts" of me not following topic.
Now what does your spelling attack from your second post have to do with the topic?
P.S.
What's this stuff about stepping up to the mic??
I am not using a mic over here.
I just type in what I want to say and it posts to this group when I manually push the button, like everyone else has to I'm sure.
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RE: Basket Case
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by KB9ERU on June 22, 2003
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Blah Blah Blah....
It is LIBERALS like you that take words out of peoples mouths and twist them into whatever you want to hear....
Ham Muscles??? All I said was we could meet for coffee.
Like I said, twisting my words.....
All fun aside, you are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours. Therefore, I am not wasting anymore time on you or this post. Flame me all you want, I have better things to do then to come down to your level.
I have wasted enough time on liberal pirates like you, and I am done.
KB9ERU --.- .-. -
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RE: Basket Case
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by BASKET on June 23, 2003
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Wrong!!
I am not a liberal and I was quoting every word you said. And giving you the chance to explain yourself. I twisted nothing.
Blah Blah Blah??
What was this all about.
No Blah about it. You still don't understand what you were doing wrong do you.
Someone better change your mind to stop taking it upon yourself to police your precious 10meter band.
I am not flaming you, just letting you know what you are doing as you don't understand your broad domino effect you are creating by trying to police any band you are licensed for by jamming pirates.
My Level?
I am licensed. I do not follow people around and tx on them on the 10meter ham bands and I can see what you are doing and went out of my way to help another ham straighten his act up
Where do you think you are according to my level when you Stalk pirates and continue to send multipul strings of computer generated RTTY and continue to follow them until they fall below 28.0
Twist FCC regs to walk very thin lines to justify your actions
then you criticize your fellow ham about his punctuation
Then you just fall out of the debate here claiming you don't want to hear it because you still think you did nothing wrong.
You Don't sound like the Ham that everyone wants on their team.
UNLESS
Hollingsworth is looking for a few good men to throw RTTY transmissions on a few pirates.
Then I would have to say that you are an expert. Then I am sure you would make a good RTTY pirate jammer
There's nothing wrong with that if you can convince hollingsworth that you could take a dent out of crime by jamming the 10meter band where ever you hear pirates and you could get paid for it too.
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KA5CVH on August 11, 2003
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Don Stoner, W6TNS, had no problem with CB radios. Evidently he was less a ham than you, Radio....
I believe it was Don Stoner who put out a line of radios bearing his name. One a 5 band hf amateur rig (pre warc days) and a CB no less. His CB was on par with the Tram, Golden Eagle and other top dollar CB's.
Mike
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RE: Dealing with Pirates
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by KB1QH on October 4, 2003
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I think the people from 27.025 are retarded. 30,000 watts that does not make you a radio station it shows how stupid you are. I'm a hf operator for twenty years and i run real long antennas done on a computer when you let your antenna do the work you sound like a radio station with the limit. Stop living in a one room apartment and putting your lifes money in your surburban. Real radio equipment wholes value. You want good am audio buy a boat anchor like a johnson or kws1 collins. Buy a real amp like a ameritron or henry. Put real radio equipment in your play room. First buy your house. I really cant believe you ham operators did not say anything about splash over from 27.025 all the way through ten meters and goverment bands i have real good recieve for this from running real long antennas. The fcc really will never do anything about this. So give up on them and go out and buy your amps and stop complaining. A lot of hams like to complain if you are short of money get a credit card they go a long way.Be a happy ham operator.
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Dealing with Pirates
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by N3TVV on January 21, 2004
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A simple pin through the coax would take care of many of these pirate radio operators, or just chop the feed line and the whole kitten kabootle would go up in smoke before they realize they've been taken off the air. 30 kw to 0 watts in seconds.
Don't complicate things,get straight to the point. Find them ,cut the feedline and leave their fine in the mailbox right next to the piece of feedline that you chopped off :)
You have to deal with a$$holes like an A$$hole (pardon my german).
As for the Chicken Banders operating out of band and high amounts of power .If the all the RF they expose themselves to doesn't give them brain tumors,I would be more then suprised.OtherWise it's time to crack down and take care of them the same way I had suggested for the Pirates.
Short quick and to the point..
N3tvv
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Dealing with Pirates
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by KB2VXA on December 7, 2005
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Hi all,
Just making a random selection to pick on;
"If memory serves me right, 11 meters used to be an Amature only spectrum at some point. Illegal users abounded, thus making the FCC allocate it for Citizens Band only with a voluntary licence fee application. Then from 23 channels to 40. SSB included! Now, they are into 10 & 12 meters. Where is it going to end? ...Charlie"
Well Charlie your memory serves you wrong. The origial Class A Citizens Band was largely reallocated to Public Service so the FCC's long standing policy of "equivelent spectrum replacement" resulted in the reallocation of 11M to Class D Citizens Band. Now just how in it's infinite wisdom did the FCC equate an upper HF band with UHF? "Intent and Purpose" as Amateur Radio is defined in Part 97 Section 1 considers the purpose of communications over the band this purpose is carried out on, short range business and personal communications. Obviously that omission with regard to frequency resulted in the progressive bedlam that started when 11M was realocated to begin with. Regardless of the rules it has always been a hobby band. With no end in sight it's "Sorry Charlie, Starkist wants tuna that tastes good, not tuna with good taste."
Add to the previously mentioned pirates all the fishing boats operating on restricted Coast Guard and even nearby railroad frequencies you have another sort of freebander. Recently while searching for active area railroad frequencies I found very strong encrypted voice transmissions on a frequency between the normal RR channels. An FCC database search naturally turned up nothing, I have found an unlicensed operation that doesn't want it's business known. When the nuke station's sirens scream and the control room repeater starts sending panic signals I'll know what I have found.
In closing let me say that all you guys seem to be doing is hashing and rehashing everything I have heard from the late 50s onward on more frequencies than most of you listen to. So guys I'll leave you with some food for thought, the more things change the more they stay the same.
Bon appitite.
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