Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
G. Stanley Turnbull (WA6ST)
on
May 3, 2003
View comments about this article!
I just received a card from a QSL manager [DJØFX, Walter Brenner] that was accompanied by a thoughtful form letter, from which I am extracting several ideas into separate postings, to make comments (if any) easier.
The subject here is the size of QSL cards.
Walter writes, (remember, this is a form letter so he presumably gets this all the time) "If you have no metric size envelopes - same size as the new IRC [which is BIG, s.t.], send none. Send an address label along [and] I will supply the bigger envelope. Because it is very time consuming when I must rewrite thousands of addresses by hand." And on the (very handsome) QSL card he had attached a handwritten note, "Hello Stan! I had to cut the metric QSL to fit your small envelope."
Well, the "small" envelope was the No. 9 that (fitted inside an outgoing No. 10) I have been using for some years with no apparent problems and w/o any comments one way or another.
To check my memory on this I went through a pack of 50 QSLs that I will be sending to ARRL for a DXCC endorsement. They include 10 from Europe, one even from Germany, and every one of the 50 would fit in a No. 9 envelope. As I am writing Walter, he did such a lovely job of trimming his card that I have to recognize the possibility that one or two of my 50 might have been trimmed - but, as I said, looking at the margins and general appearance of the cards, I don't think so.
So, as I am also saying to Walter - I hope and trust very gently, as like the rest of us I really do appreciate the work of QSL managers - there does exist the possibility that rather than my envelopes being too small, his cards are too big.
Anyway. I'm curious if others may have a different experience from mine - that is, are you getting folded or cut-down cards in your return envelopes? Or QSL-manager comments like the above?
For myself, I don't plan to buy bigger envelopes, but I just MIGHT - at least for brand-new countries - be enclosing an address label along with my return envelopes. Couldn't hurt.
73,
Stan WA6ST
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WN3VAW on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Stan,
I had a long article a few weeks back about some of the very QSL procedures you bring up.
When in doubt, go to an office supply store (ie Staples, Office Depot, etc.) and buy a #12 envelope to send, which will comfortably fit a #10 envelope for the return.
I would NOT (unless otherwise directed) send only a label. Many overseas QSL managers have indicated that they do not wish to supply the envelope & will often discard your request or send it via the bureau if you only supply a label. Whether or not this is reasonable is debatable (and no doubt will be debated here momentarily) but that's the way it is sometimes.
Better to send an envelope too big than too small!
73, ron wn3vaw
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N6AJR on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I do usually send an envelope (addressed) and a couple bucks and I would hope if it calls fo a bigger envelope they will use some of the $ and take care of it..I have about a 95% return rate 73 an good dx tom N6AJR
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by KE4OC on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
As a Qsl Mgr many years ago, for 5 DX stations. I never ever remember having envelope problem, and some of the cards were furnished by the DX station and mailed to me. Some I had printed myself. I can say that the biggest problem was either no IRC's or GS and an Airmail return envelope. Couse this was back when Airmail was 50 cents. I used to get beer bottle lables, decals, photo's and even some very nice letters. I tried to reply direct as best I could afford but some months I would receive over 100 to 200 cards a month. plus who knows how many via the buro. It's a dice throw as some of us dxer's will send excess IRC's or Green Stamps to help out the less fortunate. I feel Qsl Managers have a JOB not a hobby when they take on DX stations doing the best they can. It's not cheap making honor roll anymore! Frank, Mgr for VQ9CI, V21AO, CT2DL, CT2YG, 3D2DM AND 3D2DM/FW, Years ago!
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA4PTZ on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yes, this is a very important detail when ordering
or designing a QSL card , as well. DUH!
Many HAMs are more excited about the card they will
receive and fail to remember that if you get cheap
and send a too small SASE you will get folded cards
in return or none at all. Also , a couple of other
DX notes....
International postage to most countries is eighty
cents from the USA, and sixty cents to Canada. An
IRC is currently $1.05 . The cost of IRC's changes
and you must re-evaluate this each year or your
return QSL may be delayed or never received. In my
pile of IRC's the values ranged from $1.95 to $1.05.
Be sure you have , at least, the minimum. The Post
Office can easily tell you the correct postage to
any country either by phone or at the counter.
I have not checked their website.
Oh , and one more thing....if you are too cheap to
send your QSL in an envelope and include a SASE and
an IRC, you are too cheap to be working DX . The
word "poor" can also be substituted for "cheap".
73 - Tim
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA4DOU on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
When I saw this problem happen I responded by sending larger envelopes from that point on. BUT, I'd rather have a folded card than none, so I haven't complained. Based on the fact that the vast number of cards fit standard American sized short envelopes, I'd say the problem is that the card is too large. That fact represents a de facto standard that amateurs accept and cards should meet. That standard does seem to work with the rest of the world in most cases too. QSL'ing isn't cheap,dx'ing isn't cheap and going on dx'peditions isn't cheap. Cheap dx'ers are going to find the going harder.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N8UZE on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Standard paper, card, and envelope sizes in America are non-standard in the rest of the world. So while many foreign stations do use the card size we do for QSLs, it's not unbelievable that this is a special order for them. Why should they have to bow to our standard when we are the ones who want their cards. Just get bigger envelopes. They aren't hard to get. Besides even in this country, people are starting to use the large 4x6 postcard for general use and for photos, etc rather than the 3.5 x 5 card so you might
as well get the large envelopes.
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N8XMS on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Most of the cards that I have received from Europe have been about 9 x 14 cm, but there are also a lot of cards (perhaps 25% of my collection) that are about 10.5 x 15 cm. This larger size will not fit in the standard 9.2 by 16.5 cm envelope that I usually send as my sae so some of them have been folded. As a matter of fact, this larger size would just barely fit in a standard "business size" envelope. Most of the larger cards do not include photos so I don't mind if they come folded. The fancy picture cards tend to be the smaller ones that fit just fine in the sae.
I recently had a new batch of my QSL cards (a photo card) printed by a company in England and they are just 8.4 x 14 cm. Most cards printed in this country seem to be about 8.9 x 14 cm.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA9SVD on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One correction: Currently, IRC's are $1.75, not $1.05
On the matter of QSL card size, I also wish Amateurs would keep with a standard size.
Traditionally, that size has been 3.5" x 5.5" (9cm x 14 cm.) When I first got into the hobby, I never got an "odd sized" QSL card; they were ALWAYS the same size, and I was able to display all of them in plastic holders that would fit 20 cards and hang on the wall.
But now, cards come in all sizes. I'm sure some of this has to do with "Design and print your own" cards, but although I do the same, I've made sure the design fits into the old dimensions. It took a bit more work than to just put something together, but it WILL fit into a regular size "small" envelope, which fits nicely into a #10 (business size) envelope.
|
| |
|
Just fold 'em, sheesh
|
|
|
by KF6IIU on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've only received 3 oversize QSLs ever (except for special event certs); I enclose a #9 9.8 x 22.5 cm return envelope which is fine for "standard" cards. 2 of the cards were folded and 1 was via the buro, which uses oversize envelopes.
There is no "metric" vs "English" controversy here: standard card size 9 x 14 cm is almost exactly 3 1/2 by 5 1/2". Actually, my cards, even though they were printed overseas by Octavia, are 3 1/2 x 5 1/2" and not metric.
The folded cards I received were 10.5 x 15 cm, the size of metric A4 paper cut in quarters. These are "functional" cards not designed to win beauty contests; they are homemade on a computer printer or copier machine, and not commercially printed, so they look fine even with the fold in them.
When I enjoy your folded card on the wall, I'm looking at your (hopefully rare) callsign, and not the fold mark! Just fold 'em!
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by W9JCM on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I could really care less if I have a folded Card. People use what they have and can afford. I say if you dont like it to bad. Not everyone has money to run out and get the "proper" equipment.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA9SVD on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Actually, the 3.5" x 5.5" size IS the same as 9 x 14 cm, within a 1.5 mm tolerance, and I expect that there is at least that much tolerance in the printing business. So, it shouldn't be that hard for "home-brew" QSL cards to fit into that size, although I can see some leeway for those that print their own cards. It's the professionally printed cards of non-standard size that won't fit into standard holders that I have to put away in some drawer rather than having on display. I don't know the rationale for the oversize QSL cards, but I have an idea, and I won't go into that here...
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by KA5N on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
In the internet age why aren't QSL's sent in some kind of jpeg format and then printed out on a color printer?
This would confirm the contact and still give a hard copy for display with much less cost and the snail mail delay.
Allen KA5N
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N2ERN on May 3, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Use #9 for US stations and US Managers only. Get a supply of larger envelopes for European stations/managers.
The larger cards are common in Europe. Small cards will fit in large envelopes.
Be a sport and buy a pack of envelopes, The Europeans will appreciate your effort.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by G3SEA on May 4, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K5AN said it all.Hams communciate at the speed of light
( or close to it : ) ) and then proceed to confirm the contact at a snail mail pace ! Hams have been known to pass on before receiving a QSL card !
Systems like E QSL save the ludicrous cost and time of
contemporary QSL processing.
Why anyone would pay say $600 for an HF transceiver and then proceed to spend exponentially more in future dollars in an archaic QSL system defies logic.
Somwhere on a drawing board is a transceiver design that will print out the QSL ( Once Hams get on the digital mode bandwagon :)
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by AD5CA on May 4, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I wish IRCs were $1.05, they are $1.75 down here!
Mark AD5CA
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K1MKF on May 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I send my QSL out in a slightly oversize envelope. I use the same envelope as the SAE inside for the return trip. I put a couple greenbacks in it and fold it in half. Not sure what my percentage is but this way the green isn't as visible thru the envelope.
MarkF
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N4DFP on May 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well , we can look at it from another perspective.... all Walter REALLY had to do was cut the address from your envelope and tape it to his envelope...voila! an address label. I am in a different situation. I am presently "temporarily disabled" and unemployed, therefore I have no source of income. At best, my disability claim will go through and I will have a limited income. I would be interested in thoughts on a QSL card generated through a computer on light card stock, or even office rag.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by KG4RUL on May 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I send 5 1/2" x 4 1/4" QSL cards. This is a standard stock for laser printers which also happens to print very well in my InkJet printer. For U.S. and Canadian contacts, I include a pre-printed address label for the return card. Foreign coantacts get an envelope with the label attached.
As far as IRCs, our local PO gave me a blank stare when I inquired about them. It seems that to get them, I normally sould have to make 40 mile round trip to the main area PO. However, since we are rural route, the carrier will take an order along with a check back to the local PO. The local PO will then have the main PO send the IRCs to them and, the carrier will deliver them to my mailbox for no extra charge. What a deal!
Per the USPS:
Mailpiece Dimensions
Postcard
Length x Height
5 inch min. x 3-1/2 inch min.
6 inch max. x 4-1/4 inch max.
Dennis - KG4RUL
BTW - I have gotten return envelopes where another label was placed over a previous Ham's address. It always made me wonder if that Ham ever did get a card or was just stiffed?
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K0EX on May 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Germans use an envelope size that works just great... they're not much longer than our std American small envelope, but are quite a bit taller. Sorry, I don't recall the official nomenclature for them. If someone wants to know, e-mail me and tonite I'll check the packaging in which these come for that detailed information.
I bought all mine when in Germany at various times in the past.
-Mark K0EX
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by N0MUD on May 5, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I buy extra xmas cards, throw away the cards as I make sure they are of the kind I wouldnt send to my worse enemy and keep the envelopes. My standard size professionally made qsl cards all fit nicely with room to spare.
If your qsl cards won't fit into a xmas card envelope then your cards are too big and sorry for saying this but you deserve what you get.
73's Mike, N0mud
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K1MKF on May 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Staples sells discount invitation envelopes. These are used with computer generated quarter fold cards. They're cheap and a little taller than normal. Plus they come in colors, too!
MarkF
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by DL5MO on May 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Funny thread. Who else needs such envelops from Old Europe? But I guess it is not serious difficulty to buy such envelops in the New World...all others eMail me...73 Thomas
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by AB4EJ on May 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
That's called eqsl.cc
I have quit using mailed cards - it's too expensive to send $2 to every DX station just to get a piece of paper... and using the bureau, it takes years to get results. EQSL forever!!!
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by G3SEA on May 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AB4EJ makes the logical and common sense statement re
the whole archaic system of QSL'ng.
All that money wasted on time consuming cards would
buy a new transceiver or two ! :)
EQSL is the logical and economic answer to the whole
costly current QSL mess :)
|
| |
|
Envelope too small
|
|
|
by AD1C on May 6, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
There are at least 3 sources of larger envelops for sale:
James Mackey QSL Service:
http://users.net1plus.com/ryoung/
W4MPY:
http://www.w4mpy.com/
William Plum
plumdx@msn.com
I haven't had a problem with folded QSLs, etc. in years.
73 - Jim AD1C
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by KB9ERU on May 7, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A few comments here:
Folding and/or cutting the QSL card is A-OK with me. All I can say to the op on the other end is thank you for sending me a card back. I agree with W9JCM. I will be looking at the call, remembering the fun I had breaking the pileup rather than being shallow about a folded/cut card.
The only bad thing about EQSL is it's no good for getting the ARRL DXCC award, per the EQSL website. I wish that there was a way around that, I really like the idea of EQSL.
A lot of countries can't afford to have cards printed. I just wish the "ARRL" would see it that way, but I am not posting to start a pileup about the "ARRL". I'll save that for another post, hihi.
However, it is better to have received an EQSL than none at all!
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by KB1JPB on May 9, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As has already been mentioned, 3.5" x 5.5" laser/inkjet postcard stock doesn't seem to exist for home QSL card production.
Since I rarely need to send a QSL card at this point, it makes little sense for me to get a large number of cards from a printer; so I designed one for myself that I can print out as needed--but for the 4" x 6" cards that seem to be most readily available for laser/inkjet use.
I'd prefer to keep with the old U.S. standard, but it doesn't seem possible to meet it without trimming my cards down by hand--a risky business without the kind of precision trimmers print shops have available. EQSLs seem the obvious wave of the future, but I haven't tried them yet.
73,
Jason, KB1JPB
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on May 11, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
QSL TO LARGER OT TO SMALL...MANY THESE DAYS DO NOT QSL AT ALL!!!
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by G0XBV on May 13, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Mark
I think the German envelope size you're referring to is size C6. They're 16cm x 11.5cm (6.4" x 4.5"). Don't know if that size is available stateside.
They're basically a Euro-wide standard (based upon original DIN, hence German, standards). They fall into the same metric sizing categories like A5,A4 and A3 etc. They're also big enough to take those oversize cards too.
OOI, is your #10 a really wide envelope? Our business size hr is a DL10 and it's 8.7" wide.
Al
G0XBV
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by AF2HD on May 13, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have found that 8.5 x 11 inch 110 pound card stock is
available from many sources such as WalMart, Staples, etc.
I print four cards at once per sheet and cut with a paper
cutter. Also have developed a two sided color QSL for
WW2LST QSOs. These cards are 8.5 inches wide and about
3.5 inches high. Easy to cut with paper cutter and as they
are set as two column are perfect to be folded if needed
without destroying the photo on the front or the history
of LST-325 on the reverse. Of course this type card
requires that all cards are sent via envelope. Another
advantage of printing your own cards is that you can
customize the cards for special events.
|
| |
|
Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K9TTT on May 16, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I only wish they would enlarge the wall hangers to fit the "old world" cards. I've got some mighty nice cards from those guys (and gals) and would like to display them. BTW: I ocassionly get one from Africa or Japan. Funny how they fit in the larger nested envelopes I purchase for a little bit of nothing, compared to what it must cost to have a card printed in some of the poorer countries.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by WA9SVD on May 21, 2003
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Back in the old, OLD days, most QSL cards WERE the traditional 3.5" x 5.5" format, whether local, national, international or interplanetary...
That said, I print my cards to the 3.5" x 5.5" format on 4x6" card stock, and trim them to the 3.5x5.5" format. What's so hard about that? At least my cards will fit in the standard holders. I have no desire to get into the "my card is bigger that your card" type competition. It's a courtesy, not an ego trip. IMHO, of course.
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K0RFD on April 9, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB1JPB wrote:
>3.5" x 5.5" laser/inkjet postcard stock doesn't seem
>to exist for home QSL card production
I go to a local print shop and ask to see their leftovers in 8-1/2 x 11 cover stock. They always have lots in various colors. Not enough to start a new job, so they'll sell it dirt cheap.
Then I have them cut it in their hydraulic cutter. You can get four 3-1/2 x 5-1/2 cards per 8-1/2 x 11 sheet with an inch of waste. Most of the time, they'll even shrink-wrap it in manageable bundles for me so it stays clean in storage.
My card is a PDF file. I defined a paper size called "QSL Card" in my printer driver. I print them black on colored stock on the laser printer, maybe 50 or 100 at a time so they don't sit around and get dirty. They aren't fancy, but the recipient usually doesn't care.
I could probably have them offset-printed cheaper, but the laser is a good compromise. Inkjet is way too expensive.
I don't send my cards as postcards, so they can be on just about any weight stock that holds up. If you plan to send the cards as postcards, be aware that the postal service has stringent thickness standards as well as size standards.
Avoid cover stock that is too thick if you are going to print on a laser. If the paper is too thick, it doesn't heat up fast enough in the fuser and the toner will rub off.
Regarding date formats as commented on by a previous poster, since I designed my own card, I labeled the date field "UTC Date YYYY-MM-DD" so there's no doubt about it when the recipient reads it. I also labeled the time field "UTC Time HH:MM"
|
| |
|
RE: Envelope Too Small -- Or QSL Too Big?
|
|
|
by K8MHZ on April 11, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Check out your local dollar stores.
I get a box of cards, in this case sympathy cards, and use the envelopes inside, tossing the cards.
Get 2 sizes, one a 6 x 4 inch card will fit in nicely and another that the envelope will fit in nicely. Then cut construction paper to fit in the outside card to make it a 'security' envelope.
If you have a printer use that as we don't want this to look like a birthday card. Don't put calls on the envelope. Try to make it look like junk mail, no folds on the inside.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Other Recent Articles
Student Sends MIT Letter to Space:
Amateur Radio Club Talks to Hams Worldwide on Centennial:
New Communication Exhibit Helps Kids Get the Message:
Transmission of Images - No Internet, Satellite, Cable, or Cells Needed!
Deltona Youth Loves to Ham It Up on the Radio:
|
