Hamvention 2003:
Alan M. Tanner (W8FAX)
on
May 19, 2003
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Hamvention 2003 is now over. What are YOUR "reviews"? Our group had a great day in the flea market on Saturday, and I sold/gave away everything I had brought within a couple of hours. The others in the group did very well too. It appeared that the prices of HF transceiver type rigs around the market were down somewhat. If you were looking for a first rig or a spare, this was the year to get it. Lots of the usual junk also, but not so many boatanchor offerings as in years past. Saturday it started raining about 9 A.M. or so, and only let up a little now and then. Many sellers were escaping by 2 P.M. as the flea market had dropped off severely. Still, many folks wandering around with umbrella's looking for "rain sales."
Inside was about the same as usual, but there were a few more empty spaces this year. CQ and a couple of others had been moved from the scheduled spots, after the program was printed, and some confusion about forum times was also apparent. ICOM and Ten-Tec had their new rigs out. I believe the new ICOM is double everything, including price. I attended the SWODXA dinner at the Crown Royal Hotel also. It was well attended, but VERY noticeable was the absence of DXers from over seas.
The bus company that was hired went bankrupt about a week before the show, so DARA had to do some really fast tap dancing. I guess Friday was still pretty messed up, but Saturday much better.
I believe attendance was way down this year over all. The economy and travel all having a big effect. But, WX and all, still a great time to do some shopping, renew long time acquaintances, and eyeball some new hams. Hope you had fun too...
Al/W8FAX
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by N8EMR on May 19, 2003
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I made it out friday an saturday. Busses were a little slow on friday but not much slower than in the past. I think using personal vans to help with morning traffic was a nice quick fix to the problem.
WX was gloomy in the morning but warmed up and was plesent throught the day. I also noticed that there was a number of new fans inside the arena that helped to cool down the inside.
Saturday was wet off and on forcing a lot of folks inside. This is were you saw the MUCH smaller crowds Overall the croweds were down but there was still a good flow of people inside and out.
I picked up a few things and got good prcies.USED HF rigs seems to be priced well but used 2m mobiles and handhelds were way over priced> Why would anyone pay $100 for 20 year old tempo s1, no memory, no Pl when you can get a new icom t2h slightly under and the v8 slightly over in price.
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by KC8WCW on May 19, 2003
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This was my very first trip to Hamvention, so it was an experience to say the least. If you are a people watcher, Hamvention is definitely the place to be. I'd go again, just for the amusement of all the accentric and downright wierd people who show up there. I found myself having to continually resist the urge to grab someone, shake them, and say, "Man, you really need to get a life!" Don't misunderstand me, I realize it's all in good fun, and maybe I just need to lighten up. On the other hand, with all the folks with their photographers vests, their 3 HT's, and their formal ID badges, I'm not so sure I'm the one who needs lightening!
All kidding aside, it was an interesting and enjoyable experience. There is some remarkable technology available to Hams that can certainly turn it into an addiction. It's a little like being a kid in a candy store. My hats off to the many people who successfully came together to organize the event. It was a good time in spite of the hit and miss weather, and there were some really nice and interesting folks there as well. I'd definitely go again, and I guess there isn't a better endorsement than that.
KC8WCW
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by KC8IMB on May 19, 2003
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Excellent event, as usual. found some great army surplus masting (leans more toward portable tower) and more junk than i came with. The rain hampered things a little bit but we weathered it, no pun intended. Can't wait 'till next year. Hope to see everyone again!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by DAYTONSWL on May 19, 2003
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I have to say this was one of the worst Hamventions I attended. Getting so that every Hamvention since they moved it to May, is nothing but rain - although Friday was nice. Since I have attended the last fifteen or so straight Hamventions, here is some input for the Hamvention committee and other hams attending the Hamvention.
1.) The bathrooms are disgusting. You need people to keep them clean. The smell is awful. Either hams need to change their diet or tell the Hara Arena folks to find a way to vent the stink out and keep them clean!
2.) Security was lax. They used to have someone at every door checking to make sure a ticket was purchased. Hardly anyone was checking and many of the doors were not manned by security.
3.) Hams and other visitors - take a shower and bath at least once a day - some of the people attending are filthy and smell disgusting.
4.) Just because you have allowed yourself to become a fat slob does not make you disabled. Too many fat hams riding around on those cart things making it a real problem to move around the exhibits on the inside. Get up and walk and lose some of that weight. If you are truely disabled, by all means use one of those riders. If you are just fat, get up on your own two feet and walk.
5.) Flea market prices - are some of you people on crack? A beat up VHF or dual bander rig that looks like heck and is out in the rain is not worth $200 when you can buy a new rig for the same or a bit more. If the radio is so precious to you that you have to ask stupidily high prices, keep it at home so you can cherish it properly. Sellers may think the rain kept people out of the flea market, but it was the unreasonably high prices that sent people back inside to buy new gear. No don't blame this on eBay, this has been going on for sometime now and way before eBay. I hope all of you enjoyed dragging all your overpriced junk home. Here is a rule of thumb. If it is a scratched up, wet, dirty, over ten years old, and questionable as to really working and it's an HF rig - less than $200. If a p.o.s. old tube rig, then less than $100. Collector quality means mint and clean and prices would be a bit higher. Also, learn the concept of present value. If you have to carry it around to hamfest after hamfest to unload it on some poor soul for your idiotic high prices over a three year period, then you would have more value with your money if you had sold it three years ago for a lot less.
6.) We need young people. Every club should get two new hams at least every year. Too many old fat hams.
7.) Get the Hamvention out of the Hara Arena - the place is just a dump.
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by W3JXP on May 19, 2003
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I had a great time this year. The rain was a bummer but I still got around most of the shop and swindle. Note to people selling... Neatness counts, if your spot is piled high with dirty dumpter leavings, I and many other guys will not come look. And leaving a pile of it on ground when you leave is just an admission that it was not worth bringing in the first place. The other thing is the guys with the carts with milk crates on them. The crowded exibit floor is no place for them. I've had to do the highland fling several times because I almost triped over some guys trailer.
But these things were minor gripes, I even think the bathrooms were a little better than last year. I bought my FT1000 Field and a bunch of other small "junk box bits" for my projects. Lusted over new gear, saw old friends, talked to a bunch of people, saw and heard funny things, like the guy talking to his wife before the show opened on Friday, "Honey, if I seem to not be paying any attention to you, it's just because I'm so excited about all the new radios" great fun and I'm going back next year.
John W3JXP
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by K7AAF on May 19, 2003
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If the deal with the HARA arena folds, move the event to Cleveland. Our IX Center AT THE AIRPORT has room for the entire HamVention -- vendors and 30 plus acres of flea market, INDOORS. Rain? What rain?
I was there Friday and Saturday. Cooked fresh morel mushrooms on the motel balcony with N8VIF, my sister Anne on Thursday nite. Went to BW-3, had wings and beers with the other "hamsters" and had a fabulous time. Traffic was light, both people and cars. It was easy to get around indoors for the first time in 8 years (at least until it started to rain on Saturday morning!)
New gear prices were much lower than expected. AES and KJI won the day as the vendors with the lowest overall prices, especially for ICOM and Yaesu rigs. 'VIF bought an new VX-2 and loves it. Outdoors -- well, the usual piles of "what the heck is that" were back (did any of it really sell, or is the Dumpster pretty full this morning?) Some good prices (I found a 30 amp Astron PS just like new for $50, retail $139) but overall pretty pricey in the flea market.
Took a calibrated pedometer and walked an honest 6.7 miles the first day. (2 passes thru the flea market and one indoors, plus a few returns here and there). If you've walked that and wondered, that's about how far it is!
Surprised to see empty flea and indoors spaces. But I'll be back next year!!! You come too....
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by W6PMR2 on May 19, 2003
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I have to clean up the mess I made by spitting out my coffee while reading DAYTONSWL's post. Funny stuff, but oh so true.
I dont go to Dayton because it is too far a trek for me being on the west coast, but year after year it seems to rain and people complain about the high swap prices,.....gee, sounds like a great place to avoid!
BTW the line about the fat Hams on electric carts still has my wife and I chuckling.
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by AD7DB on May 19, 2003
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I didn't go to Dayton, but Friday night I was watching the APRS displays at FindU.com and elsewhere. Scattered activity around Hara as hams showed up, but what was all that to the northeast? Looked like a 2nd convention on the west side of I-75. What's over there, motels, campgrounds, truck stop?
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by K5NZ on May 19, 2003
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I hope this is moved to another city/arena ASAP ! The lack of support by the City of Dayton for the major convention in their city is pathetic. HARA Arena is a septic tank, too small, worthless HVAC, and packed with so many "carts" they needed their own lane to operate. At one point the cart traffic was as bad as rush hour in Houston! Please move this to a city that cares and an arena that can handle the crowd! Until then I'll stay home.
Mike Hance K5NZ
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Hamvention® 2ØØ3:
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by W8AII on May 19, 2003
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This was my 28th Dayton Hamvention®... Our 15th year in the flea market.
Some previous posters were right on about the conditions of the restroom facilities... My god what a mess...
Our biggest complaint was when we arrived Thursday evening to park our vehicle in our flea market spots and found a tent the size of a small house covering one of the two spots we had. A trip to the Flea Market Office resulted in only being told that all the Hamvention® staff had left for the evening and that we should come back at Ø6:ØØ on Friday morning... All the info we had received told us that we needed to be in and out of the Flea Market area for setup by 22:ØØ Thursday evening. In my opinion, if you put it in print, you should provide help to hams who paid money to support the Hamvention®. Not be told by a security guard to come back in the morning. Fortunately the ham whose spot we were on was understanding enough to know the tent was the root cause of the problem and was flexible with us to get through the weekend...
I believe that there wouldn't have been a problem if the flea market space numbers would have been
<<<CLEARLY PAINTED ON THE GROUND>>>
It seems as the years go by, and patch work is done on the lot, no attempt is ever made to repaint the numbers. Not to mention wearing off through normal seasonal changes. I realize this might be the responsibility of the folks who manage Hara Arena but it is also folks like us who depend on clearly identified spot numbers for any number of reasons...
All of the pre-Dayton Flea Market information clearly spells out that it will cost you $5Ø.ØØ for every hole on your spot caused by a peg or hold down device... When I looked at this tent that covered 24 spaces, I quit counting at 25 pegs... I only hope the guy made enough money to pay for the holes the tent company put in the ground...
I also found it interesting that when we make hotel reservations, we end up paying a rebate back to the Hamvention® for staying in a hotel. At least in the case of the Red Roof Inn North... So much for getting a break on advanced admission tickets...
Yes, as usual, Dayton was not without rain... Lot's of Flea Market vendors started closing shop and pulling out around 16:ØØ not to be seen again on Sunday...
Will I go next year? Absolutely without a doubt... Why? Because it's Dayton!!!, because it's the only time I get to eyeball my friends that I only talk with over the year...
Anyway.... Thanks for letting me vent... My only wish is that the folks of the Hamvention® commitee read this website and have the clout to do anything about it for next year...
73's de Al/W8AII
flea market spots 3837, 3838 oops, that's 3836, 3837
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by K9NYO on May 19, 2003
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This was my second Hamvention, and I've already made reservations for next year.
I wish we would have had more time to spend in the flea market outside. We brought rain gear and walked in the rain on Saturday for a couple of hours, but then we finally went inside. This year I brought one of those pull-carts, and it really made a big difference in the amount of crap I was lugging around.
This year I spent a lot of time chatting with hams I didn't know. We talked antennas, band conditions, favorite keyers, etc. I'm glad I started up conversations with people I didn't know and answered others when they started conversations. I learned a lot from the people I talked to.
And I found a really clean bathroom...no stink, no line, plenty of TP, etc. I think that might have been my best find this weekend!
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by KB2SSA on May 19, 2003
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The other poster was right about the waste lines of hams. We don't need a larger arena for hamvention, we need smaller hams! It is amzaing how one person can cause gridlock in the area just for be being enormous!
I was there all weekend. Highly recommned the KOA. Ok busses may have been a problem but they were worked out quickly.
Planned the days like this: Weather Channel says 20% chance of rain on friday and 40% chance of rain on saturday. So I ran around the flea market all day friday and didnt get a drop on me. Showed up Saturday and its raining, so onto the indoor tables. Came back sunday to pick up some masts and left. 100% sucessful trip.
Prices in the flea market were out rageous. I saw many Icom IC-V8000's used priced higher than new! Are we that dumb guys? Also talking like a carni at your vendor spot barking at passers buy to buy your stuff will not get your items sold. A nice neatly layed out table with clean well priced items will sell your items. Stacking your table full of motorola mobile radios that seem to be stuck together with mud and setting your FT-1000 on top of this mess does not sell anyhing. It makes people wonder how you treated that radio at home.
Just my vents. I will go back next year no matter where its held.
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by KB5TBB on May 19, 2003
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I don't have time to write a full review, but I will say I was quite amused to find a sign that read "(screen name withheld) was here" after all the bathroom discussion prior to the show.
I've already made plans to return for my 6th year in a row, despite the poor condition of HARA and the ever-so-predictable Saturday rain.
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by K1OU on May 19, 2003
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Darn right about a lot of the overweight people cruising around in carts. Makes one wonder if their disability is an inability to push away from a dinner table.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by G7HEU on May 19, 2003
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Here in the U.K. I used to see pictures of Dayton and dream about all those acres of radio gear. I always harbored an ambition to visit one day.
In the meantime I made the mistake of taking my XYL to a 'radio rally' locally. She looked genuinely scared when I suggested she 'take the weight off' and wait for me in the restaurant (well cafe). 'Don't leave me here alone' she whispered in a panicked tone. 'They smell'. She said it reminded her of the bar from the Star Wars movie.
So, it seems that lack of personal hygiene in hams in an international problem.
You know those "If you can fit under here you can't ride" things they have at Disney Land and such? Perhaps we should have 'smell-o-meters' at the entrance to radio meetings.
Just a thought.
Long live ham radio,
Steve
G7HEU.
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by G4HZV on May 19, 2003
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I did laugh when I read the last few posts, particularly G7HEU's.
Steve - I've been to Dayton a couple of times and planned to go this year, but my travel plans went wrong. Dayton is like a combination of the Leicester show and the Luton boot sale, but on a huge scale. However, the standard of the buildings and the catering is just like back home, if you get my drift. Having said that, it is a great event. I like the lectures and just strolling round the flea market, looking at all the stuff that I've seen advertised in QST for the last 30 years, but never owned.
You should give it a go, but perhaps better not take your wife!
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by N8VQJ on May 19, 2003
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Had a good time. Upgraded to General. I bought a new Maldol MH-510 (6m, 2m, 70 cm antenna), New Travel Plus 2003, New VC-27 and a CD-15A for my VX-7R. I did not spend much time in the flea market as I know that it's usually a waste. Was going to walk around it Saturday but the rain put the damper on that. After it rains once unless it's Friday, forget it. As for prices in flea market....I concur. Don't try to get what you put into it back out. That will never happen. If you paid 500 for it and it's now selling new for 250, well, I'm sorry dude. Maybe you should have waited.
One thing that impressed me this year was there were not as many computer dealers as in the past. Software was non existant. There was non to be found. Also, where was the BIG tent in the back?? Anyway, this year it appeared that the Hamvention was given back to the hams. No room full of computer stuff. Most of the show was Ham Radio oriented as it ought to be. Sure, we need computers, but we don't need so many that we need software vendor after vendor. This year I also saw no porn being sold as I had seen in the past (well, at least inside). I would like to see less of the superfluous stuff. Name tang dealers and folks who make stuff with Calls on it are cool. Wish Englehaupt had a bigger booth then they did this year.
MANNERS PEOPLE! I had a backpack on for carting my stuff and many people were running into it. PLEASE watch where you are going and if there is someone in front of you, don't crowd around them. PLEASE if your having a eyeball QSO with someone, GET OUT OF THE FRICKIN WAY! The middle of a ramp is not the place to have a 30 minute conversation. Go outside or sit in the food court or at LEAST get out of the path of humanity. If you see someone such as I leading a blind ham around, PLEASE WATCH! I had so many people just run right into the hams I took around that I felt bad. The carts also have to GO! I had one guy in a cart almost plow right into me and a blind friend of mine. At first he was acting like the guy could see! GEESH can't you see the cane? Anyway MANNERS were deplorable. Look, I am exicted too put I was not pushing people out of the way so I could see the rigs.
The exam rooms were HOT! Not as in the number of people passing, but temperature. Can we find a place that is cooler? Also, please grade all first trys FIRST! I was going to take Extra as well as General and was unable to do this lest I use up the rest of the day. I waited 45 minutes to grade a test I took in 20. Can ARRL start to authorize scantron grading? That would definitely speed things up at big sessions. I am still happy I passed the General though. I was glad they had test sessions and many more sessions were available then in the past.
Let's face it....Hamvention will not move unless Dayton gets a better convention/conference space. HARA is it. I would LOVE to see it come to Columbus, but it won't happen. Don't even ask. Remember, Hamvention is put on by DARA and no amount of wishing will move it anywhere but maybe somewhere else in Dayton. Wright Pat won't work because the Air Force would never allow it. Hara is the only place for it. Only idea that may work is if DARA wanted to move it to Columbus, I bet they could get a team sponsership with CORC, CCRA and other Columbus ham clubs. Hamvention as sponsered by DARA, CORC and CCRA and VOA (Voice of Alladin...shiner hams in Columbus) has a nice ring to it. It would be neat, but I don't see it happening. DARA owns it. Period.
Lots of these are just nits. I will be back next year. Maybe I will be able to drive myself instead of riding with others. In any case, I love the show and will be back again. Maybe I can get that rig next year.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by AB4EJ on May 19, 2003
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Congratulations to the Hamvention committee on being able to recover from the near-disaster of the last-second loss of the transportation vendor. This was a first-class "save" of a situation that could have become chaotic. I'm sure it also resulted in lost money as well, unfortunately.
I enjoyed the remarks by earlier commenters about the event being like a "Star Wars" bar. Yes, indeed. But if you thought the weirdos were out in force at Dayton, try attending a UFO conference once.
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by KB4HAM on May 19, 2003
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Went last year and the weather was bad....definitely cut down on enjoyment. Lets move this puppy to Las Vegas.....flight rates are the same...good weather...and lots to do after the convention!
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by RAD1OMAN on May 19, 2003
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The Hamvention was fun. Didn't someone tell me that the Hamvention was moved from the last weekend of April to the third weekend of May on account of the WEATHER?
The Hamvention needs to be moved OUT of the Hara Arena. The Hara family demands far too much from the DARA folk and the facility is a pig sty. Hara wants DARA to pay to repave and number the lot (up go the ticket prices AGAIN). I figure a healthy lawsuit will cure that, when someone trips and falls over crumbled pavement and sues the snot out of Hara, something will get done, it is a safety issue.
The security was very lax this year, I guess they just could not keep those guards awake!
Once I got in the front gate, NO ONE ever asked to see my ticket, I wondered the place as I wanted to, inside and outside, even after the inside was closed.
Dayton needs to wake up, hotel/motel prices, fast as well as sit-down resturaunts are going to make many take a second look.
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by WD8MGO on May 19, 2003
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I will have to agree with previous posters concerning conditions around the event. So I went to much cleaner restroom facilitities around the event.
I have to agree about outside security. Sure they looked, if they wanted to!
I have been attending since the mid-80s and it seems as if Hamvention has lost all it's unique quality. During the early 80s it was nice to hear announcements in three languages. Everyone seemed to give a damn of how they appeared compared to today's
slobs. These same slobs show up on the local Dayton news media and this is the image we want young people to look up to? I don't think so. At least the Military Collector Group I hang around with always looks and acts professional with real radios(which by the way are waterproof).
Surreal would have to be the word for Saturday not seeing the Amateur Radio masses pull into the parking lot across from Hara prior to 8AM. Sure made it nice for our little group! Attendance was defintely down both Friday and Saturday. Because of Hamvention many smaller communities have planned events to coincide in order to tap into the additional flow of income from visitors outside of Dayton.
Lastly, I don't even bother placing my ticket stub in the bin. I feel I have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than winning any prize.
Overall, numbers were down and it was a wet one but I had fun playing on my PRC-68A and PRC-128 radios looking over other Commercial/Military Radios(and purchasing a few too:)
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Hamvention 2003:
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by NF7J on May 19, 2003
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I second the vote for Las Vegas for the new Hamvention location. Ya right, like that's ever going to happen. (But if it did, I would be there!)
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by W8IJN on May 19, 2003
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The first time I went to the Dayton Hamvention, back in 1972, I went with my father, who at the time was 61. We took a lot of breaks wandering around the place. When I went the next time, one year later, Cindy, who later became my wife, went with me. The first thing she noticed was the large number of hams who had, shall we say, health problems. She correlated this appropriately to the amount of time those portly hams would spend sittin’ in front of the microphone. Now, thirty-two years later, things ain’t changed that much. Maybe they’ve gotten worse.
For sure, there are a lot of hams who need to push back from the table, put the microphone away, turn off the radios and go outside to mow the lawn. And not on one of those prissy riding mowers either. That or some serious intervention on being greasy, unkempt, unwashed, stinky potatoes (which I know is a terrible insult to potatoes). And I won't get into personal sense of self-worth affecting how these folks keep themselves.
Between that and the kind of mass latrine scene that has become quite common at the Hara site, I have a system worked out: I get up in the morning early enough to drink a big mug of Arvid Nordquist mellanrost coffee & a couple slices of toast. Then I wait around a while for gastrointestinal motility to do its thing. Once that’s accomplished, I go off to the Hamvention with a fairly sure knowledge that I won’t need to visit the outhouse again until I get home.
So I miss out on the overpriced bratwurst & beer and I miss out on what might happen if I didn’t miss the brats and beer.
That being said, this was the first year of my 31 trips to the Hamvention that I can truly say it rained pretty much all day. But after 31 years of attending, during one of which years it did snow, I figured it was time to pay up. So I wandered around the fleas while it was drizzling or raining or whatever. I only went inside when the rain let up a bit.
Wouldn’t have been fair, see?
There was – and always has been – a lot of real, truly basic, unadulterated, unforgivable junk out in the fleas. Motorola HTs once used by homo erectus. Pieces of hardline that had once graced the hanging gardens of Babylon. Stuff you wouldn’t have used back when, even if you had been able to back then. And all of it priced as if it were just hot out of the Iraqi antiquities museum.
But there’s also good stuff. Like a Ten Tec Argonaut 505 that was priced at $145, which I didn’t buy ‘cause I don’t need any more nostalgia. (The two Hittite scrolls I got on eBay were enough, thanks.) A couple really nice old Heathkit rigs with Native American names also would have been nice, if the floor to my shack was intersected by a load-bearing wall underneath. And a beautiful Collins S-line sittin’ out in the rain ‘cause the tarp had blown off & the flea site owner was absent (me & another guy covered ‘em up again).
So yeah, it was rainy. Some folks used this year’s rain as an excuse not to come next year (as if they have the market cornered on the art of guessing). And Hara continues, year by year to degenerate into a crumbling wreck. And yes, it would have been nice if some folks had gotten up off their fundii and gotten some exercise (including exercising their bath & shower facilities) before attending. And the comments about flea pricing are pretty much on target.
But it was a neat deal again, meeting some folks with whom I’ve had on-air conversations. And people with whom I’ve spent fairly massive piles of cash. And all the new stuff to look at.
Like KC4RD told me Sunday evening on 40m after I’d fixed the D-104 I’d gotten for $35 out in the fleas, “A bad day at Dayton is still better than a great day at work.”
See ya next year!
Nils
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by AD8K on May 19, 2003
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I hope my twelve year old, who I have been trying to get interested in ham radio, does not read this report.
I have not been to Dayton in years and I only live 15 miles away, was becoming an instant slum. So it sounds like it finally made the grade. Sounds like it has been on a forty year downhill slope. Sorry to hear about it. Don't let the greasers take over.
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by W8VKD on May 19, 2003
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Just like Yogi Berra said "It was Deja Vu all over again". The last time I went to Dayton prior to this past weekend was in '97. Things have not changed much. OK the hotdogs are smaller and the pop is twice as expensive as it was. All else being equal it's DAYTON! I was lucky I went on Friday only.
Flea market vendors will find out that E-BAy is eating them alive. I went looking for sweep tubes only to find them priced higher than on-line vendors. There were NO SWINGIN DEALS outside this year.
I went
I saw
I conquered
"Houston, we've got a problem" my return next year is doubtful.
73
W8VKD
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Hamvention 2003:
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by W4KXY on May 19, 2003
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All the usual problems. The Hara Arena is a dump and I made sure that I used the bathroom facilities at the hotel before I left in the morning. Friday was OK weather wise but it rained on and off all day Saturday which killed the fleamarket. I didn't even bother with the fleamarket Saturday and spent most of the day inside. Attendance seemed to be down and those that were there kept their wallets firmly closed. I have been going for several years and this is the first year that I didn't sell everything I brought in the fleamarket. Bottom line though is that I agree with previous poster who said "a bad day at Dayton is better that a good day at work". I will be back next year.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N8FZ on May 19, 2003
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Interesting thread so far :)
I have been to Dayton every year since 1982. This year's show was about average if you factor out the rain. I think the committee needs to take hard look at what direction they want Hamvention to take. I think any move out of the greater Dayton area would be a mistake, but Hara needs some wholesale changes. We as a hobby are put on display during Hamvention week-end. Something to think about...........
Great job on the busses! It was a quick recovery from near disaster.
I will be back again next year and hoping that the forthcoming changes will bring back the DAYTON Hamvention to the better days of the early 80's
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Hamvention 2003:
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by W6YB on May 19, 2003
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This was my first time going to Hamvention and it was FUN! I went with the Dayton Doggies and we had sooooo much fun! It was 3 days of 100% and more of Ham Radio! All I can say is it was worth every penny!
73 to all, Andrew W6YB
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KC9ANI on May 19, 2003
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Well guess my 2 cents wont hurt. Attended Dayton for the first time. Arrived early and parked at Salem Mall. As described above the bus service had a bad start. Didn't start on time and approx 500 people were waiting before shuttles began. So like a lot of people, I walked up to Hara. Not too bad -- Got the juices flowing. Impressed with the set up inside by all the vendors but was disappointed that most prices were about the same as current mail order so no real deals to be had. Restrooms left a lot to be desired but hey its a crowd. While wandering the flea market area, I did notice the condition of the parking lot with all the loose blacktop and holes. And they have the nerve to charge vendors for placing a hole. How would they ever patch.
Overall I did enjoy the trip and will go again. I think they try to put on a good event but are stuck with poor facilities and no easy answers.
Highlight of the trip for me was winning a Pro Set Plus headset from Heil sound. Made my day!
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by K9LNX on May 19, 2003
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Lets not go too hard on the Hara folks. We all know that the arena is an old facility. The Hamfest is probably about the only big gathering left that uses it so cash for repairs is most likely on the slim side. Yes I feel that another facility may be in order but the question is WHERE. OHIO State Fair? Maybe. Ft Wayne Convention Center? Louisville Convention Center? All of these sound good but they are not Dayton. I have been attending this show since it was held downtown at the Biltmore Hotel and when it moved out to the Hara facility is when it blossomed into the Hamfest to end all Hamfests. The commitee needs sosme help, as does the Hara facility, let's try to give them some practical, positive suggestions. Oh Yea! The fat guys have always been there, you just didn't notice until now.
See you all next year.
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by WB8WOR on May 19, 2003
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I'm in favor of change as well.
Now, don't get me wrong, I got to despise the porn CD vendors, so I'd rather not return to the 80s/early 90s.
I also remember the rain and cold from April shows, and I think there is a better chance of a sunny HV in may.
Come back, DARC/CQ-DL. I really can't afford to ship your magazine to me here in the states, and I do enjoy it.
I wish the non-ham/dollar-store-tool/beanie-baby/stolen-stereo people would stay home. That goes for printer/computer dealers as well. Yes, we need computers in the shack, but we can get those elsewhere. It's a HAM fest. I'd rather see a smaller dayton with less mess than a bloat that has to be subsidized by all the other stuff.
I really enjoy the forums, and they make it worth the money I spend on food and hotel. They are the saving grace.
Ultimately, that will be what saves it. It isn't the mass of stuff or crowd of people, but the sheer enjoyment of learning about new stuff like digital radio and SDRs. And the fact that the kids in the youth forum knew more about radio than half of the adults who attended.
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RE: Hamvention 2003: Tour Bus Trip There is Cool!
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by KT8K on May 19, 2003
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I went with our local ARROW club in Ann Arbor, MI, on a nice comfy tour bus, just for the day on Saturday, and it worked out great. Having to get on the bus at 5AM was a bit tough, but the rest of the trip was just fine, and it will be even better next year. Glad I brought some minimal rain gear though. It took me from 8 to 12:30 to walk through the entire outdoor swap, which was 70% tarped off in blue plastic. I still found a very nice, fully-dressed TenTec Argosy for my shack for $180 - a great Dayton deal - and a 70 watt 2M linear to boost my old TR9000 for $70. Hard disks were going for $1 per gigabyte, 17" monitors by Dell/Compaq/IBM for $25, etc. It was neat to see all the manufacturer's new stuff, too. I had a blast.
The bus left at 5 and I was home in AA by 8:30, hardly tired at all - a really fun and successful day (first time at Dayton since '89 or so). I will be there next year for sure! More ARROW club reports at our website: www.w8pgw.org. 73 - Tim
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by W9TS on May 19, 2003
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After attending every year (except one when I had to attend driver skool for a speeding ticket) since I was a college freshman in 1971, I am seriously considering blowing off Hamvention for 2004.
I have long been a fan of hamfests and continue to be, finding them to be a source of inexpensive parts and equipment to fuel both my professional and hobby interests. But Hamvention is wearing thin on me.
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1. Hara is a dump.
Over thirty years, additions have been built willy-nilly, but nothing beyond basic maintenance has occurred in the older sections (as far as I can tell).
The sanitary facilites are in horrible condition and insufficient for the size of the crowd, both inside and outside. Part of my survival gear for Hamvention is my personal roll of TP - it gives me express access to undersupplied but available stalls. The cans inside Hara have the same odor as the factory pig farms I pass on I65 in Indiana. Perhaps there are cleanup crews, but I haven't noticed anyone maintaining the johns during the fest.
As for the outside facilities, we work with a ratio of 1 portajohn to 75 attendees for a weekend Scouting event. At Hamvention the ratio seems to be more like 1:300 or 1:500, inconveniently located outside the "perimeter".
Neither Hamvention nor Hara has put any money into the "outside exhibits" (how's that for a euphemism???)beyond an occasional can of yellow spray paint. As one of my group noted, the potholes are big enough to hold hibernating bears.
The only place I can recall that had poorer johns was the old Santa Fe Speedway that hosted the Hamfesters and Six Meter hamfests in Chicago. Maybe it's time for Hara to meet the same fate as Santa Fe - raze it for luxury homes.
2. Hamvention is silly with "security".
There have always been the cadre of lacadaisical "Barneys" of Merchant Security Service doing Barney checks at every opening in a wall or fence.
This year I note that the Barneys have been reduced in both number and enthusiasm for their work. Instead, we now have thugs (probably off-duty cops) walking around with official Hamvention Security polo shirts, wearing combat boots and black BDU trousers and -get this- packing heat! Kind of a used radio SWAT team.
And this is in addition to the Generalissimo and his golf-cart gestapo. (Generalissimo was the bearded fat ass driving the golf cart with the flashing blue-and-red strobes. He had an assistant, "Orange Dude", who obviously ranked lower because his golf cart didn't have as much cool cop stuff). Seems like Hamvention gives a great opportunity for every closet cop and Napoleon wanna-be to get some time in feeding his/her ego.
I don't need to experience North Korea World.
3. Every year the Hamvention silly rules committee develops at least one new silly rule to add to the list of silly rules for "outside exhibits". The silly rules committee exists to provide entertainment for Hamvention officials. They want to see how much chicken-shit we will tolerate outside before we disappear.
Many years ago it was "don't you dare step over that yellow line, not even the nubbin on the bumper of your car." So we parked diagonally across our two slots so we could actually set some stuff out.
Then there was the volunteer from the Ohio Department of Revenue trying to get everyone outside to pay sales tax. We ignored and outlasted him.
A couple years ago it was *no vehicle traffic during "show" hours* and they now include a letter from Trotwood I suppose as a non-verbal shrug of the shoulders that says, "Hey, its not out fault, they're making us do this." I suspect that what really happened is that someone had his foot run over and threatened to sue the shit out of Hara and Hamvention. So we grab donuts at Meijers instead of breakfast.
This year the John Ashcroft types had the silly rules committee add a rule against selling burglary tools. Now, I personally have no need for lock picks but I can envision legitimate applications for them. I resent having the thought police decide that possession of a particular device is defacto proof of criminal intent to perform criminal acts. Hamvention and the movie and music industries should get together - they have a lot in common.
4. I don't have any need for the inside exhibits.
I go to hamfests to find interesting and unusual items, to obtain parts and supplies at less than retail without 50% "shipping and handling", and to find used equipment at salvage (not used) prices.
If I want to buy new stuff I will instead log onto my ISP from the comfort of my home, shop on line, and compare the cost of shipping and handling to the cost of Illinois sales tax. I don't need to drive to Ohio to pay list price and Ohio sales tax.
I can save a bunch of time and hotel taxes by increasing my patronage of the many hamfests in the IL-WI-IN area. I'll certainly see most of the same people. (The Oak Creek hamfest, just minutes north of the Cheese Curtain, is a really great friendly small fest that gets even friendlier when the free beer starts).
5. Someone told me the Hamvention theme this year was Yoot. Well, they sure aren't doing much to help the yoot considering all the scratch they must pull in.
I didn't see many yoots. Didn't see a special one-day yoot pass for $10 or even less to encourage yoots to experience ham radio or maybe even a father-and-son or father-and-daughter pass. Wouldn't that be cool? Junior or Juniorette, full of enthusiasm, gets Dad to drive to Dayton for the day and it doesn't cost Dad a fortune.
Wanne be depressed? I got depressed when I went to a local radio club meeting last fall to get hams involved with Scouts and I was the youngest person there. I got more depressed when, after getting a committment for a ham radio station at the Emergency Preparedness Camporee, no one shows up and I have to scramble to fill the hole. I get depressed when a Scout I helped with his license and radio merit badge dumps radio for model railroading because all he found in ham radio were old farts.
And what about those radio scholarships, eh? Great program, a real chest thumper. $12,000 total awarded last year, maximum grant I think of $1500. Those of us with kids actually in college know that amount will buy two semesters worth of engineering texts. $12,000/$500 = the rent for 24 inside commercial vendor spaces.
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I kept my room reservation 'cuz I can cancel that with no charge. "Outside Exhibitor" HQ assured me that 2004 would be celebrated in Dayton, even though I explicitly asked and received a negative response on the signing of a contract with Hara. They are crazy if they think I will re-up with no certainty of next year's venue.
Attendence has been decreasing for several years and it's obvious. Inside wasn't as packed and smelly as it used to get on rainy days (I do take one quick look of the inside). There were a **lot** of empty outside exhibitor spaces - a rarity a decade ago.
But after 33 years, I think the silly rules committee may have finally found my saturation point.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by K9SV on May 19, 2003
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My Friend (NS9M ) and I have been going to the Dayton Hamvention for over 20 years we have seen the good days when the busses to all the Hotels and Motels were free, ticket prices were low and the cities of Dayton and Trotwood welcomed the Hams. We have also seen the gradual decline of things notably the Hara arena. This year, weather aside, was one of our worst and most expensive trips yet.
One thing that has bothered me the most is this. While checking on motel room availability for the year 2004 we asked what next years room rates might be. We were told by the desk clerk they did not know as the “Dayton Area Visitor’s Bureau” was going to raise the rates for rooms next year. The clerk also stated the motel had to pay the DAVB a $2 per room rebate. Someone please convince me the clerk was wrong and this is not price fixing and kick backs. The Dayton Hamvention is rapidly getting to expensive to justify selling your old ham equipment in the flea market or even going to the dealers to get a good price a on new equipment. Ham operators pump millions of dollars into the local economy during this weekend but it sounds like this is not enough for some. The DARA club has done a great job over the years of putting on this event in the past and I hope they continue to do so for many years to come. With all the talk of moving the event to another city it should give the DARA some powerful leverage to keep it in the Dayton area. I hope the Dayton Area Visitors Bureau will consider this when raising room rates for the coming years.
K9SV
NS9M
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by WA9PIE on May 19, 2003
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I've attended the Hamvention almost every year since '86 (and several years prior to that). Once upon a time, my wife would go with me. And even though my wife and oldest daughter are both licensed, only my 12-year old son will go with me now.
My wife won't go anymore because of all the comments in DAYTONSWL's comments. My wife says that 'people who go to hamfests are (generally) fat and smelly. The restrooms are nasty (I can remember cleaner rest areas in the early 70's).
Parking still stinks - but not because it's expesive or muddy... heck, since I bought my 4x4, the mud is actually kinda fun. What stinks is that you've got these 'security guards' sitting there keeping you from parking in a grassy area that absolutely no one else is parking in for no apparent reason. Whatever.
Some folks say - who needs the fea market, there's eBay. And I agree. And I saw LOTS of prices out there in the flea market that must have been for sale by folks who either had never seen eBay or who was hoping to sucker someone who hasn't seen eBay.
Some folks say - who needs to see the new gear. Answer is - I do. I want to see the IC7800 before it hits the market. I want to see the connectors on the back of it. I want to fuss at Cushcraft in person because the antennas they've sold me stink. I want to talk to the Mosley folks and ask them questions about their antennas that I bought that do work (but Mosley wasn't there this year). I want my son to attend the Kids Forum - and Carol Perry is just the bomb for putting this on and keeping it going.
But if you don't care about those things... don't care about the flea market - rather do eBay... don't care about new gear... rather keep using your old gear or buying from the Internet... then it's probably not worth hanging with the fat stinky hams (most of which really do use their weight problems as a disability and should walk a bit more; and I weigh 240, for the record).
I'd like to see a new venue. Perhaps Cincy, Louisville, Columbus, Indianapolis (state fairgrounds might work). Anywhere that has well-vented bathrooms and adequate air conditioning that can help keep us fat hams from sweating (which causes us to stink; though I did not stink this year or in previous years).
And I've noticed that kids don't really want to hang out around old, fat, smelly people. But I'm equally afraid that they'll spend their lives on their butt at a keyboard - instead of behind a microphone.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N9AVY on May 19, 2003
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Yep, high prices in flea market, disgusting rest rooms, too many scooters (were they all neccessary?) and the usual rain. Did notice that Hara doesn't do much parking lot maintenance. And the mud hole parking lots that asked an outrageous $8 to park should have offered discount coupons for car washes !
And that woman at Mendelson's with the whiny voice over the PA system ... every time I passed by her voice was like fingernails on a chalk board ! Was very tempted to buy a large roll of duct tape !
Whether I go back to Dayton next year is something that may not be decided until the last minute.
Oh... and the bus situation was awful on Friday.
The Hamvention brings a lot of money into the Dayton area every year. Dayton ought to wake up and realize that they stand to lose a lot of income from the Hamvention.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by AETHERBURNER on May 19, 2003
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In the past several years, I have seen the quality of the show go down hill on a rainy, muddy slope and there is no end in sight. Outside, I felt like I was at a country flea market. Radio prices were out-of-line, E-Bay and other sources are cheaper. I found one commercial vendor with an outside booth and an inside booth with differential pricing - it was cheaper outside by almost 50% for the items I purchased outside. By the end of Friday, I had hit the whole place and acquired what I came for. There was no need for me to stay any longer except for the forums but the rain and a phone call changed that - I left Saturday morning.
There has been many a rant about the cleanliness of the restrooms. There are no paid attendants cleaning up after the great unwashed have used the facilities. Luckily, I can adjust my diet to compensate for the unwillingness to use what is available. I find that waysides that have outhouses are far cleaner than at Hara at the end of the day courtesy of the users.
Aisles aren't that big inside. I figure there is enough room for four people across the aisle. Two are moving and two are looking at displays. As some commentators above have opined, there are many people who take up the space of two.
I could continue on with this missive but I won't. The attendees of the Hamvention are a cross section of the population as a whole but skewed toward the less publically agreeable. Will I be going next year...I doubt it sincerely. Hara Arena may be in a state of needed repairs but it is the people who do not exercise public cleanliness that populate it that make it unbearable.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by W8OB on May 19, 2003
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I did not attend Dayton this year. By the sounds of things here I did not miss a whole lot. This brings me back to my orginal question I have asked many times.
Whats up with hams lately? Hams used to be the cleanest best dressed people around, Now attending just about any fest you see and smell people who don't know what a bar of soap is for. You see people with guts and asses that stagger the imagination and you have to wonder how some them can perform maint on their grossly oversized behinds after they do the business. Rude people must think they get awards for such things as being pushy, bouncing off your back and the all time favorite blocking the aisle BSing with someone of equal physical stature.I almost fell off my chair laughing when I read comments other gentlemen had heard from their wifes, My wife said the same thing after attending a hamfest with me. Her words were I am never going to one of them things again! The little cart's I think that would have been the hair puller for me, its bad enough you get roped into going to the supermarket with wife and have to put up with the scooters there (most of the so called handicapped that use them just didn't learn when to stop eating)and a person with a real handicap will usually say ta hell with the scooter and attempt to walk about the market a bit. Yes I feel I didn't miss a thing here, If I want to get into this situation I could just catch a flight to Disneyworld and heck it might even be cheaper.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by NA2A on May 19, 2003
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Didn't you post same stuff prior to the Hamvention??? Why do you even bother to go??Complain Complain
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8JZO on May 19, 2003
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Yep . . . Another Hamvention come and gone.
Pro's: Social aspect, see new equipment, find unusual equipment at cheap prices in the flea market . . .
Con's: There were no unusual pieces of equipment in the flea market to buy!
With that said, let me get to the point. I like Hamvention for the social reasons. Meet new people, learn new things, and maybe buy some cool stuff along the way. I'm one of those "weird" military collector guys (although I'm pretty early in ther game). I've been to the past 6 out of 7 H-ventions. My girlfriend's first introduction to ham radio altogether was at last year's Hamvention . . . and she noticed the lack of people and vendors. Is it war . . . SARS. . . bad economy . . . or has the venue lost it's magic? Other than the times I socialized, the fest seemed a bit . . . well . . . boring. Where were the German dudes with their collapseable antenna set-up (or am I on crack for remembering them this way)? Where did all the smaller Ham radio retailers go? There were less of them inside this year. What about Icom, and the booth that they set up outside, or the large rows of tents in the back? I was looking for a straight forward 6 meter fm ht (kinda like a Cherokee or something cheaper along those lines). I thought the saying used to be "If you can't find it at Hamvention, then it wasn't ever made." This year's event wasn't as much fun. It needs a jumpstart, if it's gonna be successful again.
I thought the theme this year was "The Year of the Youth." What special events were set up for the youth? I never went to the forums, but the rest of the 'vention seemed to be business as usual. Why not replace the computer vendors that took up quite a bit of space inside with active radio demonstrations. I seemed to remember a Collins group indoors, set up as a museum display of sorts. We need more activities and active participation to keep hams (and hams to be) interested. I like smaller hamfests. You can take time and communicate with others. You might even learn a thing or two. Sure, you're there to pick up a few goodies, but that's not what a hamfest should be fully about. Enjoy yourself, and come in contact with those that you only know over the air . . . then go home and get on the air with them again. This time though, you'll know them a little more personally. I Better Stop babbling.
Will I go to Hamvention again? Yes! It's the best place to get together face to face with people from around the world with the same interests. Will this event stay the premier gathering place to meet, greet, and buy cool stuff? That's yet to be seen.
John G.
KC8JZO from Dayton, O.
73
P.S. This is only some food for thought . . . please don't take it as a threat. The DARA group does a descent job at putting this together. I just think there's room for improvement.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KE2IV on May 19, 2003
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"5.) Flea market prices - are some of you people on crack? A beat up VHF or dual bander rig that looks like heck and is out in the rain is not worth $200 when you can buy a new rig for the same or a bit more. If the radio is so precious to you that you have to ask stupidily high prices, keep it at home so you can cherish it properly. Sellers may think the rain kept people out of the flea market, but it was the unreasonably high prices that sent people back inside to buy new gear...."
Naw. I think they're too old to be on crack - they're just "cracked".
Actually, I think that these guys every year "promise" the XYL that "this year" they really are gonna get rid of all the junk.
And they know, in their cholestorated heart of hearts that there ain't not way!
So they drag it out to Hamvention and put a sky high price tag on it so everyone says: "No Way".
And then they bring it back home and tell the XYL that "There wasn't a soul there at Dayton who was willing to pay the fair price for this piece of ....."
73 and glad I missed the toilets this year,
KE2IV
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by N9GXW on May 19, 2003
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Went with a great group of guys (all of them clean and fit) so I had fun. Burning Hara down would improve it, at least the rain could clean the bathrooms that way. Food service was way to slow for all the people there Friday. Bought one piece of new gear saw no bargains worth owning, sold enough to offset what I brought and went home with fewer pounds of stuff than I came with. It needs to move elsewhere, that weekend at Indy is time trials so how about St. Louis? Probably will not return for several years unless it improves it’s location, but it is not my show so they can hold it in a landfill if they want and people come.
Enjoyed the ride home handing out counties in Indiana and Illinois. Got to hand out a lot of them for 7 hours.
73
N9GXW
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by WM8R on May 19, 2003
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RE:>"73 and glad I missed the toilets this year"
So that explains the mess, too may people miss the toilets. ;-)
Seriously, the restrooms and outhouses are a mess, but I did find one inside on Friday near the southeast entrance to the building. Looked like it had not been used, only a two-holer, but it had a clean tile floor and plenty of paper products. I always take a small container of waterless hand cleaner/sanitizer in my vest pocket.
Regarding an ealier comment about tripping in the parking lot, I did trip on the broken pavement Friday, sprained my ankle, bashed my knee and split my elbow open. Missed most of the rest of the day as I couldn't walk. Stayed home Saturday I hobbled around a little on Sunday.
I'll go again, but some repairs to facilities would be nice.
Mark
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by KD7EFQ on May 19, 2003
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It was my first Hamvention, and I had a BLAST!!! You cannot see it all in the 3 days. It needs to be a week, but too many people would drop from exhaustion, both physically and from their wallets. I hope to return next year. Thanks to the Hamvention Staff.
Great Job!! 73's
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N8VQJ on May 19, 2003
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One....
Toilets. I did not see or hear any of the "problems" with the potties at Hara. They were in generally good condition. Or lest we forget the old rest area toilets we used to have here in Ohio (hole in the ground with feces floating). Sorry it was not the prestine cleanliness of a hotel John. Personally, I need three things of a john...it accepts pee and poop and tp, it flushes fine and it's relatively clean. Stained toilets don't bother me much. Green water and feces floating in it does.
Two....
Fat people and smelly people....where? I did not see em. PLUS remember it WAS raining. Everyone tends to smell like a wet dog after they get rained on. Sorry we don't smell like roses. I also saw LOTS of kids and had a good conversation with a couple who were EXCITED to pass their Tech tests.
Three...
Carts. There were alot of them and I even had one practically run into me and a blind friend of mine. I understand if you have disabilities. Riding a cart cuz you get tired too quick is an excuse. Go foot mobile more. You may enjoy it and you might loose some waistline. Granted, I did not see alot of fatties. I did see carts.
Forth...
I HAD a good time despite all of your complaints about Hara. God don't you guys remember the smaller fests? Does everything have to look like the Ritz Carlton?
Again, I had a good time. My only real complaint was the RUDE people. Even the bus fiasco was not that bad.
Not on anyone elses list of beefs but on mine was there was a raft of RUDE people in general. I had a backpack on and people would practically slam into my backpack because it was in their way. I also had someone grab my HT (not to steal it, but to look at it's clip). How about asking me to finger my gear. (it was on my packs sholder strap). Plus there were a surplus of people stopping to ragchew on a ramp between one hall and another....PLEASE...go to the side of the ramp or the food court to do this. There's even alot of seats on the main arena if you want to eyeball. Don't do it in a major intersection. This is really my only beef...well this and the carts.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K3UD on May 19, 2003
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Unfortunately, I did not get to go this year but am making plans for next year. It sounds like nothing changed this year though. Hara has been decaying for years as has the outdoor flea market area. The toilets have always been messy to some extent (my first time there was in 72 and they were smelly and messy then)
I was sorry to learn about the pricing strategies for used stuff in the flea market. This seems to be taking place at other hamfests also with sometimes outrageous prices for old, comon gear.
The only problems I had with Dayton this year were:
1. This was billed as "The Year Of The Youth" but the youth as young as 12 had to fork over $22 to get in. IMO It should have been free for 16 and under.
2. From reading the posts in this thread, it seems to have turned into a complete money game for Hara and DARA (but it probably was always this way.)
3. I did not get to go
73
George
K3UD
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by RAD1OMAN on May 19, 2003
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Year of the Youth?? I wonder why no one bussed the scouts over from Wright-Patt?? There was a huge scout outing during the Hamvention weekend.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KA8SEP on May 19, 2003
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Hi,
This was my First Hamvention. left ne Ohio at 3:30 AM to get there at 9 am Sat. listing to every one complain about the weather while I was under my umbrella. I called my XYL and told her that Hamvention must be a old hebrew word for "God, rain here!"
It was realy crowded inside. If I slowed down to not bump into people, impatient people ran over me! All the gee-wiz gadgets, programs, and other electriconic wonders naturaly causes rubernecking. I loved the flying pig and the Hummer.
Found the rig I would love to have. a TenTec Pegasus. Let the computer do alot of the work.
Out side was rough because of the rain. prices were high. I asked a gentleman how much he wanted for a IC-735 he told me $475 i backed away from the tent with no comment i heard him say to his friend, thats the normal reaction. I wanted to go back and tell him i could get it on EHAM.COM for $325
If it moves please keep it in OHIO! The State fair grounds in Columbus would be a good idea. the IX center in Clevland would be good for keeping the rain away.
Ted
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Hamfests, in general...
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by N9CYS on May 20, 2003
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These are some priceless comments! Funny stuff if ya have a sense of humor! DAYTONSWL...ya cracked me up!
Sorry I missed the show, er, fun! Did my last indoor fest a few years back at Chicago area Odeum. Too much overpriced gear, tired computer ^@%# and bad personal grooming - kinda reminded me of the circus. So I only do the outdoor shows now. I hear that one of the Japanese big three will soon launch a HF peripheral that will digitize olfactory samples - trade recipes I'm thinkin'. I can't wait!
It seems that many of the well-mannered ex-military hams (of the post WWII/Korea-era) that elmered me from the 60's/70's are disappearing and the rack panel of surplus microwave gear in the shack has been replaced with a microwave oven. 'Course when the microwave isn't warming up mac and cheese and pot pies, you can always use it to log a few more grid squares during UHF openings!
I look for old gear in classifieds, club newsletters and bonfide auctions. Parts? Scrounge, trade or buy new. (I still have boxes of parts - tubes, xformers, pots and hardware from tvs and radios I tore apart as a kid.)
Don't get me wrong fellas, I loved ham radio for over 30 years. But we've got to do something about our (self-)image. In the movie Animal House, Dean Wermer tells Flounder his semester grades and adds, "Son, fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life." Ditto, on fat and smelly - no matter how charming or technically-achieved you are.
Now fess up, show of hands please - who has a microwave/hotplate (soldering irons/pots ok) in the shack? ;o)
Now who's gonna flame me first?
73
Jim
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RE: Hamfests, in general...
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by K1OU on May 20, 2003
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Hey RAD1OMAN,
Reading your profile, there is no scorn here. Just pity.
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RE: Hamfests, in general...
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by WA4PTZ on May 20, 2003
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I told you folks to wait and go to Shelby, North
Carolina....Oh well...if they insist on self
mutilation that is their privilege. And I believe
that we have discovered what catagory that fits
RAD1OMAN .........hee hee... Have you got you one
of those Rascal scooters yet?
The only thing I miss about Dayton Hamvention is
browsing through the Mendolson's booth.
I truly believe that if the DARA folks would find
a better location the crowds would return. But, it
will never happen. Someone at HARA must be extorting
them . No human being with an IQ over 40 would
continue to hold it at HARA , even if they had to
move it to another city. Get it through your heads
folks....Dayton is becoming a ghost town.
I'll see you at SHELBY.
73 - Tim
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RE: Hamfests, in general...
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by KA8UWR on May 20, 2003
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About the Dayton Hamvention,have been going for over 20 years with my dad,may be his last,aside from the terrible restrooms and Hara becomming a DUMP,the time spent with my father over the 3 days makes it all worthwhile,I think the Hamveention should be moved,its outdated,the Columbus Fairgrounds would be a good place,also the Cleveland IX center has room INDOORS for EVERYTHING!! and ITS CLEAN!!!! prices in the flea market were outrageus,playing only to "SUCKERS" and there were not even any good deals on the inside,with paying the sales tax,you were better off staying home buying mail order with NO TAX!! BOB KA8UWR
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N8IE on May 20, 2003
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DAYTONSWL,
Nice trolling there fella, I'm sure you will catch some good ones with that stinky bait.
PLONK.....
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RE: Hamfests, in general...
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by K8JDC on May 20, 2003
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This was my first trip to the Hamvention and I must say up front that I live in Dayton. I attended all day Friday. Overall, I was significantly disappointed. I would echo many of the comments above. Specifically, here are a few of my beefs:
- Why do I have to pay 3 days admission to get in one day? I could only attend one day but still had to fork over $22. DUMB! That's in addition to the $8 to park in the mud (which I still find better than taking a bus from Salem Mall).
- Where in the world does all this money go? Multiply the numbers and consider all the income and I have to ask why it costs so much to get in. I genuinely think it's too much.
- I think Hara is a total dump and always have. As a local resident, I'll honestly say that I'm embarrassed to bring in thousands of visitors and sentence them to a weekend at Hara. I would hate for Dayton to lose the Hamvention, but I think it's only a matter of time.
- I thought the outdoor swap market was worthless. What I saw Friday was a lot of junk and old equipment. I didn't see any used rigs of the newer variety (like IC-746s, IC-706s, etc.) like I expected and the prices were WAY too high. This is a totally honest statement: I saw items with price tags showing prices that were 300% higher than the same items on E-bay. Three times higher!? I was there for 7 hours and left without buying a single item even though I had a pretty sizeable shopping list. What else can I say?
- Based on my first Hamvention, I would probably return, but only because I live locally. If I had to travel more than 2 hours, there's NO way I would return.
Color me sad...
JDC
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KC9ANI on May 20, 2003
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Just another point to consider in how things are being run now. Hamvention ended two days ago and on Sunday, the Hamvention.org website said "top 10 prize winners and attendance figures coming soon". It's been two days and nothing updated yet! Nuff said.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KA2VTI on May 20, 2003
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Good Day All! Yes Dayton is over yet again and for all of you who missed it I say plan NOW for next year!
Regardless of the weather there is nothing like it. "Ham Heaven" when it comes to looking under the hood of your favorite gear and or asking those unique questions and getting the answers direct from the "Horses Mouth"!
Pleasant surprises abound with unseen new items and the surprise unveilings.
Yes, the new Icom radio is closer to $10,000 than $3000 however what new and fancy "Gotta Have" isn't outrageously expensive at release. If your a "Treasure Hunter' the sheer amount of outside vendors makes you feel like a kid in a candy shop. 73 all de KA2VTI
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8WCW on May 20, 2003
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KC9ANI: Don't worry about the prize listing on the Hamvention web site. If you ain't gotten a phone call, you probably ain't won anything either!
KC8WCW
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8WCW on May 20, 2003
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KC9ANI: Congratulations! I'll bet you learn to appreciate that as much as your rig.
By the way, that reminds me of one thing I'd definitely recommend changing at the next Hamvention. Does anyone else feel the same way about this? It seemed that the numbers for prize winners came and went WAY too quickly on the monitors! At least on the ones I saw. It came up maybe every ten minutes. Then it remained on the screen for what seemed like twenty seconds, and was off again for another ten minutes. Every time I looked up, I couldn't get my ticket out fast enough to check the number! Finally, I just gave up. I figured it was either stand in front of a monitor for ten minutes, or go enjoy the Hamvention. I opted for the latter. It appears that your persistence payed off.
73 Robert KC8WCW
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Move the Event
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by K7LA on May 20, 2003
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Here's hoping the event organizers either move the event to another city that can handle the scope of this gathering, or sell the rights to someone else that will move it. Honestly, if the Russians had ever invaded Dayton they would have bypassed the city thinking it had already been bombed.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by RADIOMAN1000 on May 20, 2003
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As "KA3RFE" said, "If you don't like it don't go". That is what is happening right now in the whole Amateur Radio Community. Don't worry about DARA being stuck at Hara Arena, within 30 years all those FAT, OLd, Smelly HAMS will be dead. Let's just hope there are enough younger HAMS to take there place Guys and gals. Oh and let's hope they are not as lazy, Fat, and smelly as the HAMS in Dayton, Ohio.
We need new blood in our hobby or all the Hamfest will fail. Just a thought.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N1KDO on May 20, 2003
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I went. I had not been since 1996. The Hara Arena looked worse than I remembered. I agree that the (so-called) sanitary facilities were unhygenic and plainly terrible. To call the Hara Arena a dump is an insult to dumps everywhere.
I was also not too psyched about the admission ticket and "outside vendor" prices. $70 for a 9 x 17 patch of crumbling asphalt is certainly not what I would describe as a bargain. It is the vendors who draw the crowds, after all. $22 at the gate is quite expensive. Even $17 in advance was no bargain. I agree with the poster that stated that if it was the year of youth they should have let all under 16 in free!
I feel like the hotel gouged us. In addition to charging what was probably double their normal room rate, they did not bother to tell anybody they were having "major renovations." The elevator was not working at checkin, the carpets were torn up in the hallways, some locks were removed from guest room doors during the day, there were strong fumes from adhesives and solvents, etc. Not nice.
It seems like Hamvention and Dayton are really trying to suck all the life out of the Golden Goose that is the economic windfall from Hamvention..
I would love to see Hamvention in a more modern venue. I really like the idea of it being at the State Fairgrounds in Columbus, OH. Perhaps the people there would be more appreciative of 25,000 hams opening their wallets to pay for hotel rooms, meals, etc.
This may seem like a negative review, and it should not, because I had a great time, DESPITE the crummy venue, sleazy hotel operator, and overall unwelcoming attitude of the Hamvention folks.
Jeff
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KG6AMW on May 20, 2003
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Why not give people several reasons to go than just ham radio. How about San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle or Vancouver Canada as future site. Maybe attendance would increase.
KG6AMW
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by AD7DB on May 20, 2003
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The ARRL Southwest Div convention rotates sites. Their longtime San Diego site (Town & Country Hotel) wanted to totally gouge them, so they had to find a new location. The last one was in Escondido. It wasn't a bad site, but it had no adjoining hotel, so some activities were split sites. There was a shuttle bus, but I didn't care for the "hand stamping" arrangement they had to do for that. The swap meet on Saturday was in part of the hotel parking lot; not very many people selling.
So basically, you'd have the same problem getting a good convention site around San Diego County as the SANDARC people did. I think they tried hard to give us a good convention despite the shortcomings.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by AB2NM on May 20, 2003
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Is anyone from Hamvention reading this? Have you any comments, insights, rebukes or rebuttals?
Honestly, it is in your best interest to 'listen up'. These are your customers speaking, and many don't sound very happy.
If you've an ear to listen, this feedback is pure gold. (Address the problems and the 'gold' will follow.)
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K4OJ on May 20, 2003
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I must agree that there never seems to be any improvement in the HARA arena and that it is a wonder the Hamvention continues to be held there...
I am less concerned about this than most as I typically only go to the Hamvention for socializing in the evenings at the hotel. HOWEVER, if the same population could be tapped and would go to a nicer facility I think that would be a win-win... I know I would actually go into the exhibit hall and look if the venue were changed - this year I walked past about 40 or 50 vendors booths on the way from the door to the forum I attended...I picked up 4 or 5 pieces of literature... and to attend thsi one forum I paid for the ticket, ouch!
I do not think anyone knows why Dayton ended up being the "big one" - but it must have something to do with the local population ham density ... as such a move to another location should only be considered if it is to one close by.
The hotel rates are way over priced and there appears to be no recourse - perhaps a good pitch man can sell the idea of 25,000 cash paying Hams to another city.
The bottom line as far as I can tell is that the Dayton Amateur Radio Association undoubtedly has some sort of contract with HARA Arena - has that contract run out - was it renewed? Commercial exhibitors have already expressed their desire for a move to Columbus...
DARA folks - how long are we stuck at HARA?
73,
Jim, K4OJ
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by W9PMZ on May 20, 2003
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If my memory serves me, I seem to recall that DARA had a convention in the 30s and lost their shirts with many hard feelings. Then in the 50s they tried again at a ham convention. I believe that it was first held at either the Biltmore (Van Cleve???) Hotel in downtown Dayton. It then moved to HARA Arena I suppose somtime in the 60s (my first one was in 1972 at HARA).
Regarding "Hamvention", it is a trademarked name and is from above, ham convention. DARA has or had a bunch of slick marketers. I suppose since Dayton had been having a Hamvention for so long, that the "vendors" gravitated to making Dayton the event that it is (or was). There maybe a lot of reasons why it grew so large, but I suspect that as someone else has mentioned, it was due to ham populaiton density and the fact that hams spent their money on these goods.
No one organization has a "lock" on a Hamvention type of event, look at the hamfest calendar in QST. If another organization steps up and convinces the "vendors" that their event is the place to be, with the draw, then they (the hams) will come. But until that organization steps up, hams will continue to make the trek to Dayton.
For myself, I missed Dayton this year. The Boy Scouts chose to have a camporee at WPAFB (in Dayton) on the same weekend. So as a result the scouts and adult leaders (including myself) got wet.........
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by G3SEA on May 20, 2003
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On reading all the complaints re this Hamvention my question would be :
Why do hams continue to patronize this event ?
It's possible that a site selection process could be
initiated much like the Olympics site selection process with a new site chosen every year that offers more than just the Hamvention ie Las Vegas, San Diego,
San Francisco,maybe even Hawaii ! But this takes much work ,lobbying AND funding.Not an easy task.
I believe a whole section at a Hamvention should be devoted to the Youth.This section would emphasize radio but incorporate the various other technologies ie The use of computers and the Internet in integrated modes like virtual rigs,software defined radios and EchoLink.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N8EMR on May 20, 2003
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Hmm, I see several notes about security and saw a very different security situation this year. Security guards were carring firearms this year. I had seen uniform police with firearms in the past but this year most of the whieshirted "security: was armed. I saw one secuirty guard with a DOG. Not sure if it was just walking the dog or if it was a police dog.
NOW I never knew why they had guards to stop you from going into the arena once you showed your ticket to get into the fleamarket. The last several years this "MUST SHOW ID" has dropped off, This year was no differnet. I never showed my ID and ran in and out a number of times.
Prices on near gear was geat. Used gear was another issues. WHO!!! in there right mind would pay $100 for a 20+ year old tempo S1 2m handheld with a note that the battery was dead and included speaker mic didnt work all the time. Icom 2AT for $125 with no accessories, not even a charger and bad battery. A great ready in its time but you can get several new radio under at or near that price. I saw few reasonable priced 2m/dualband radio that were more than 5 years old.
I did find a number of items, picked up a few wished I had picked up a few other items. My only big ticket item was non radio related, A used laptop, price was good, better than the last computer show I was at, had more accessories, dvd drive and a NEW battery.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by NK7J on May 20, 2003
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I have not been to the hamvention, have heard lots about it and have had itch to go a couple times but all it takes to convince me not to go is to take a trip to a more local "hamfest". I have to agree with some other posters that some personal hygiene would help alot. I took my wife (also a ham) to ONE hamfest and she had enough. It truely scared her, and that is not an easy thing to do. I am not sure what some hams do for a living but I would think it would involve amount of interaction with the real world. I swear some of these folks live in thier camp trailers all year and only emerge for hamfests with 5 radios, antennas, name plates, belt buckles, callsign hats/shirts/coats and a aroma that would make a slaughter house worker hurl.
The ONLY reason I liked hamfests were for seeing friends but most of them have died!!!!
Oh and by the way I REALLY liked the analogy of the star wars bar, classic.
Jack NK7J
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KB4QLZ on May 20, 2003
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This was my first trip to the Hamvention. Arrived noon Friday with a couple of friends to the Salem Mall. Talk-In was great. Waited less than 5 minutes to catch the shuttle. Arrived at Hara, arena looks old and tired. Ventured inside for an hour or so, and then proceeded to the outside vendors. Mostly what I encountered outside was overpriced, mistreated equipment. One can do alot better on eBay and eHam when looking for used gear.Inside vendors were a different story. I found the prices better than ordering via phone, or online. Of course on a large purchase it would have been better to order via phone, or online to avoid the sales tax charges, but for purchases less than $500.00 it seemed to be better to get it at the Hamvention.
The people (hams) were very nice on Friday, excuse me, pardon me, sorry, etc. Saturday was a different story. Sunday saw a return of most folks being nice.
I for one am sorta glad that it rained on Saturday. This gave me the perfect excuse NOT to venture back to the outside vendors! Spent all of Saturday, either looking at the new gear, or just taking in the whole experience of the Hamvention. Stayed inside Sunday also picking up those last minute items.
As for the Big 3 (Kenwood, Yeasu, ICOM), Yaesu and ICOM have their acts together. Kenwood on the other hand seems to be exiting the Amateur Radio line. Yeah they have 1 new rig coming out this year, whoopie. And how about the “give aways”. ICOM was giving away shirts, maps, and decals. Yaesu had ball caps, and maps. Kenwood, a stinking shirt pin about ¼ X 1 inch. Come on Kenwood, you can do better can’t ya? And the personality of the Kenwood Reps is “not too good”. Maybe the reps were embarrassed by Kenwood’s “cheapness”, compared to Yaesu and ICOM. Even MFJ (although I don’t purchase MFJ equipment) was giving out shopping bags to everyone who was entering the main arena. Take a hint Kenwood.
After reading on here a few weeks back about the latrine facilities, I altered my diet so not too have to use the facilities, and it worked beautifully. Stayed at the Days Inn in Monroe, OH. It was within 30 minutes of Dayton and a nice place, with plenty of restaurants within and exit or two from the Inn. Overall had a wonderful time, and plan on returning next year.
Mark Harrison – KB4QLZ
Hickory, NC
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Star Wars bar has good beer.
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by G7HEU on May 20, 2003
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Guys
Please forgive me posting again from abroad.
I've read all the comments here and have reached a few conclusions:
The venue is old and tired with bad facilities.
Local hotels are making a 'killing'.
The event is run by amateur Amateurs trying to offer the ham community a good time.
Since I took my slice out the smellies I feel bad. There's loads of negative postings about this event. What can YOU do to change things?
Our hobby is in decline and needs all the support it can get. Hurrah for those that went to the Hamvention and made a good time of it.
Steve
G7HEU.
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Dayton's ups and downs
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by N0TONE on May 20, 2003
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Attendance was down this year - it was really visible. But the vendors told me that sales were up. In other words, those who did attend were serious.
Vendors who sold stuff for VHF/UHF FM as well as "traditional" HF indicated that the "shack on a belt" stuff was way off, but the HF stuff was on a comeback. Hooray. Real ham radio is returning.
There were a LOT more kids than usual. When I go, I take a camera, and I make it a point to do two very specific photo sets. "The Youngsters of Hamvention" and "The Babes of Hamvention". Last year and the year before there were ZERO babes and few children. This year I got plenty of both, despite the lowered attendance. And, fabulously, both kids and babes were knowledgeable, and not just tag-alongs with dad/husband.
Bathrooms are a problem at ANY ham event. It ain't the janitors - it's the hams. Last couple of 'fests I attended, I managed to get there quite early, and, well, I drink a lot of coffee, so had to use the bathrooms. Only 30 minutes into an event, they're a stinky mess. A bad janitor doesn't cause that. It's the ham slobs. Face it, guys, the average ham is disgusting in his personal habits. In addition to the plumbing disaster, the obese ones often don't shower (some say they can't) and it's always amazing to smell so much nicotine at a hamfest. RV festivals are a whole lot cleaner and nicer smelling!
Like others, I attempted to regulate my body by what I ate when. I brought a simple leather briefcase, with some protein bars and fiber bars. Not only did that allow me to regulate when and how I needed the facilities, but I also avoided completely, having to buy any of the Hamvention food which is disgusting and expensive - just like at a baseball game.
I'd guess attendance was down 20% - just like all the other events (ham and otherwise) that I've attended this year.
Funny thing, though about the old fat hams. I have photographs I took at Hamvention in the 1960s. It looked the same. While I was younger then, the average attendeed at Hamvention back then was fat, wore out-of-date ill-fitting clothing, smoked, and couldn't hit the toilet and had thinning or graying hair. No different from today.
I never get too excited about the new rig vendor stuff. Icom has a new rig with an emphasis on Star Wars Tokyo-by-night graphics. It boasts a high intercept point, but they don't indicate if that's with a 40dB attenuator kicked in. What's the in-filter IMD DR? Nobody in the Icom booth knew.
Kenwood had a new rig, which said it had the front end of a TS-950SDX. OK, I can pass, that's not a very good front end.
Saw nothing new at Yaesu, but maybe I just missed it.
But I sure do enjoy glad-handing all the ARRL folks and telling them what they should do differently. And they do listen, and I've got a few new projects going with them that should bear fruit in 6-12 months....
AM
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Hamvention 2003:
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by NS8G on May 20, 2003
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WOW, Hamvention 2003!. Went all 3 days. Had a grand time. The Superbowl of Amateur Radio. My 21st straight Hamvention. C U in 2004!!!!
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Encourage attendance!
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by AD7DB on May 20, 2003
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How about this? Anyone 17 or under gets in FREE!
Anyone 18-45 pays regular price. (There are discounts, see below.)
Anyone 46 or over MUST pay regular price, AND bring along someone 17 or under (else, the oldster can't get in at all, although the kid can get in FREE anyway). This is to encourage recruiting of YOUNGER HAMS.
Senior discounts? Get real. Only on things like wheelchair rentals, and they'd better look like they need it.
Anyone coming to take any ham test (or, who just did within the past month) gets in for HALF price, unless they're 17 or under (in which case it's FREE!). This is to encourage newer hams and recent upgradees who probably have money burning a hole in their pocket. (Kid in tow not required for those 46 or older in this case.)
And yes, these can be combined in any manner, so nobody thinks they're getting away with anything. A 75 year old man who's taking a test, accompanied by a kid, still gets in at half price.
DISCOUNTS: If you have a 6 letter callsign, you get 15% off the regular price! If you have a 5 letter callsign, 10% off! 4 letter callsign, you're a vain bigshot vanity call and you get just a 5% discount.
ANY NON HAM: Half price when accompanied by a paying ham.
ALL YLs: 50% off! (And no kid needed to get in.)
Male ham in drag caught trying for the YL discount: YOUR FACE GOES ON THE INTERNET SITE!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by AB8OJ on May 20, 2003
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Like Tim, KT8K, and about 20 others, I rode the comfy ARROW bus down from Ann Arbor on Saturday. It was my first Hamvention, and I really enjoyed it.
I was able to do some good research on the FT-897, and with the great price AES was offering, I couldn't resist any longer. (See my for-sale ads in the classified section for what the 897 will be replacing. :-)
I also attended the SATERN forum, talked to the folks in their booth, and was impressed enough to seriously consider joining them. IMO, SATERN is a *great* example of how amateur radio is an indispensible *service*, not just a plaything.
I do agree that Hara is *well* past its prime. However, the bathroom facilities weren't all that bad, IMO, definitely not as bad as the "Why I Won't Go To Dayton" thread led me to believe. (Here's a hint: don't use the bathrooms near the crowded areas. Use the ones by the forum rooms.)
I also didn't notice the stinking mass of sub-humanity I was led to expect. Pretty much everyone smelled a little wet (myself included, I'm sure), but that was about the worst my nose encountered. I've attended trade shows that were more crowded.
The rain kept me from browsing the flea market as much as I would have liked, but it was great to be at a ham flea market that had more than a couple dozen tables set up.
I'm already looking forward to next year!
-Ed-
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA8KAZ on May 20, 2003
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This was my 11th Hamvention in a row. Well, Dayton is still Dayton, or will this change since Dayton is no longer a part of the "Official Name"? Either you like attending or you don't. Sure, the facility is poor. And, it would be nice if the City of Dayton paid more attention as this show adds a lot of bucks to the local economy. If a move is on to relocate, then comments of those who attend must be considered.
Will I attend next year? Sure! I like the "adventure" of the flea market and the forums. The Ten-Ten forum was great!
If you have a Hamvention booklet (yes, I know they now sell them!) look at the photos on page eight. Take a close look at the group photo on the right side. Do you see what I see on the right side of the back row? How about another printer!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA8KAZ on May 20, 2003
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Sorry! Please see my previous post. I should have said "left side of the back row".
73
de Wayne WA8KAZ
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N8IGS on May 20, 2003
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Greetings, to all of you.
I am N8IGS, the current General Chairman of Hamvention.
I just wanted to tell you all.
Yes, we read this, Yes, we are aware of the issues.
I'm glad to see it's not just a flame forum, that some people actually enjoyed the show.
Before any of you want to criticize me, ask yourself this, would you step up to the responsibility of this job?, as a volunteer?
I care about the show and every aspect of it. We have looked at other locations, and the next several years will tell if we can work it all out.
I promise to try and address all the issues presented here that I have power over (I cannot control the actions of fellow attendees or other people)
If you have direct comments for me, you should know my email address, it is chair@hamvention.org.
I will try and keep track of this forum as it continues.
Sincerely.
Pat Neff, N8IGS, General Chairman, Hamvention 2003
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N2BR on May 21, 2003
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Looks guys if you dont like going to Dayton hamfest then stay home or go to texas LA where ever.I have enjoy the hamfest and it nothing any different than any other hamfest i have been to.At least there some thing there to see and enjoy.I have payed money to get into a hamfest and only 5 table were full and the club would not refund or tell you on the radio that all there that showed up.Stop you bitching either go enjoy the hamfest or stay home and bitch at the wall or on the hf bands,While we go and enjoy a good fest.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by NN4DF on May 21, 2003
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I read through all the posts and many were hilarious! Only a very few brought back memories of my two trips to Dayton. The first was in 1979 when I was a young newly General-ized 8-land ham in search of a SSB rig. Bought a Hallicrafters HT-32 and sold my Viking Valiant II (my rcvr was a Collins A-3). What a great novice rig that was but I was itching to work some phone.
My second trip was the following year after working and saving my $$$. Sold the HT-32 and bought a set of Drake B-line twins. I was truly in ham heaven with the Super Station! I bought it from K8JK (still remember that call) and after the sale, he invited me to his motel where their club (from Cleveland?) was having a BBQ! What I remember most about Dayton was the fellowship and genuine friendliness. Yep, it was cold (April in Ohio brrrrr) and it was a mass of humanity. Don't remember the smell but then I was too taken aback by the experience, only having been licensed two years. Felt like Mecca then.
After reading all these posts, either the curmudgeons rule this board or there genuinely was little joy in mudville.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by W9HK on May 21, 2003
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Attended my first Hamvention and I'm glad I ignored all the complaining about the facilities and participants. The event was absolutely great. Restrooms were acceptable! Crowds were generally courteous. Security was good, sometimes annoying when I was asked to present my badge several times because it was under my rain jacket but I was glad to be asked.
Prices inside were pleasently very reasonable when compared to internet pricing and eBay auctions. Prices outside were out of touch with reality.
I'll be back armed with knowledge and a few hundred bucks next year. Thanks to the volunteers for making this event happen!!!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WB8NUT on May 21, 2003
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As a follow up to the post about the three Japanese manufacturers and what they gave away or did not give away. First, the TS-2000 is quite the engineering feat when you consider the price they are offering on the rig. I got mine for under $1,500. DSP works just as good if not better than my TenTec Jupiter and with the price increase on the Jupiter, the TS-2000 is an incredible value. Kenwood does not need to bring out new HF radios all the time as the TS-2000 is firmware upgradeable. Most of the other manufacturers bring out new rigs to correct problems with the old rigs. Kenwood can just upgrade the firmware.
As for the give-aways. Yaesu - same old tired hat but different color. Actually same color as a few years ago. I have so many hats, I really don't need anymore. Icom gave a few people shirts and had ugly booth bimbos - big deal. Kenwood gave a pin. I'd rather have them not give away anything and keep the prices on their rigs low - that's what is really important - not a bunch of junk give-aways.
The Kenwood people were very nice and I liked the TS-2000 so much I bought one at Dayton from HRO. When I came back to the Kenwood booth with the box, they even thanked me for the purchase and I spoke with the chief design engineer for the rig - very interesting discussion. Incredible radio BTW.
Been to Dayton for many years and always wear my TenTec hat as I am also very loyal to TT. Bought a Paragon II, Omni 6+, and now the Jupiter. The TenTec boys never said thank you - not even for advertising their product at every Hamvention. No big deal.
Not sure how jovial any of these people at Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu or TenTec can be since they have to stand on their feet for hours and hours at these shows.
I thinks hams are staying away from Dayton for two reasons - the economy and the show has declined in quality. I agree, the bathrooms stink.
But I will probably go back to Dayton next year and again view the fleamarket in the rain - bring ponchos!
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KB1IUB on May 21, 2003
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:Not sure how jovial any of these people at Icom
:Kenwood, Yaesu or TenTec can be since they have to
:stand on their feet for hours and hours at these
:shows.
It all part of their job. They probably enjoy them-
selves and the time flies.
:I thinks hams are staying away from Dayton for two
:reasons - the economy and the show has declined in
:quality. I agree, the bathrooms stink.
I think that you hit th nail on the head. Who can
afford to head for Dayton? If Hamvention was located
at a hub city such as Chicago, the airfare prices
could be had at the last minute for cheap bucks. If
you picked Detroit or Antlanta, one would probably
get cheaper hotel rooms.
:But I will probably go back to Dayton next year and
:again view the fleamarket in the rain - bring ponchos!
I am young ham. I have not been in this too long. I will tell you that I do know of many people who went to
Hamvention. No one in my club comes to mind. Two area
hams that I know went to the show.
I went to the biggest hamfest in the region a couple
weeks ago after pestering by local hams. I would have
to say that it is a joke. I've been to model railroad shows that are larger. These are the shows in your local area. The biggest show in the region(NE) would blow away Hosstraders. Guess what? It is indoors.
I think that is the biggest problem with all of these
hamfests and the bizzarre need to have sales outside.
You can go to ground likes Springfield, MA and pull your vehicle inside to set up your sales table. None
of this outside nonsense. I've also noticed that dealers do not all show up at time. Higher quality radio specifc dealers are required at these events.
Police the event of nonham guys such as computer hard drives and you will reduce the chaos.
I would actually volunteer to run hamvention, if I could run it my way in my choice of venue. I would guarantee that attendance would double and everyone would have positive comments.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N6JSX on May 21, 2003
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For the second time in my 31 years of HAMming I made the pilgramage to Dayton. I circled the flea market and inside complex at least 7 times - only got run over by a "fat" HAM on a motorized cart once (inside).
{it is not so much the cart width but the huge legs that hang out and over, I heard some of these operators were complaining about the narrow seat being uncomfortable (they needed two) so next year the carts will equiped with a bench seat - that should help traffic flow!}
The inside to outside temperature extreme made it interesting - outside you needed a jacket but due to very poor ventalation in the complex as soon as you got inside you had to shed clothing down to a T shirt or start sweating profusely - inside was uncomfortable hot and sticky all three days! I found myself aiming for open doors often to get cool air.
I experianced cleaner and less smelling rest rooms in overseas combat zones. I walked in - turned around holding my breath - a breif thought of SARS came and went. But I'm lucky I now live within 50 miles of Dayton so I just held it!!!
Flea Market - Friday AM had drizzle and when the clouds broke in the PM it got warm and sticky. Saturday was a total BUST with rain all day, I was highly disappointed as that was going to be my flea market day. A vast majority of sellers covered their tables or were packing up. Sunday - was dry but many in the flea market had split. There were some nice deals out their but you had to really look and be up on your game. I bought my big piece Sunday at noon and saved myself $175 from Saturday's price - it even works well too!
The talkin repeater operators script only could talk you in from one direction, I-75, they could not read a map to help you coming off I-70.
HARA is a "dump" - the building(s) layout has the WORST traffic flow pattern of any complex center I've ever seen. This is due to the rooms being added on in any and all directions - it is possible to get lost or miss an entire exhibit room/hall way.
Rumor was this was the last contracted year at HARA and there was a possiblity Hamvention may move to Columbus but then Sunday I heard they had signed again with HARA for another two years. Too bad......
The next worth wild swap meets in the area will be Findlay and Ft. Wayne (no WX problems here) in the fall. Next big upper mid-west swap meet will be Grayslake, Ill. another good one but often subject to WX.
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It's "put up or shut up"?
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by AD7DB on May 21, 2003
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To Pat Neff N8IGS,
>Before any of you want to criticize me, ask yourself >this, would you step up to the responsibility
>of this job?, as a volunteer?
Pat, with all respect, it sounds like it's "put up or shut up." I wouldn't touch that job. My hat's off to anyone who can manage something like it.
Does DARA have ANY clout with Dayton (ie, visitors bureau, chamber of commerce etc) and HARA Arena? Seems to me that DARA should dictate terms to THEM, lest HARA/Dayton lose the convention to another city and facility that would welcome 30 kilohams and their money coming into town and helping the local economy.
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RE: It's "put up or shut up"?
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by KG6AMW on May 21, 2003
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Ok K1IUB, how would you increase attendance and make everybody happy? Now Pat, pay attention.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by K8FFO on May 21, 2003
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I attended again this year and it was great to see old friends and just to experience Hamvention. There is no other place that one can see so much and actually get to speak to all of the major manufacturers in person.
Sure it rained on Saturday, but this was not Dayton's fault nor DARA's fault. When you plan an event a year in advance you take what you get weatherwise.
Sure HARA is old and could use some work, but to move this gigantic event to another city would be extremely difficult at best. Remember that this event is put on entirely by volunteers. If moved to Columbus or any other city, how many of the DARA volunteers would be lost and who would replace them? I applaud DARA for the fine job that they do with Hamvention every year. Just take ten minutes and think about what it takes to put on a show of this size.
Hamvention is what it is and it will always be a great place to see it all in one location. Don't like it? Stay home. Have never been there? Don't criticize it!
Thank you to the DARA volunteers for their time and effort! See you all next year!
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by N0TONE on May 21, 2003
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Re: WB8NUT. Glad you like your TS-2000. Please do not transmit on HF SSB, though. The TS-2000 generates some very poor IMD on SSB transmit. It also delivers a fair amount of broadband noise.
It is my considered opinion that the TS-2000 was Kenwood's grand experiment. "Given the choice, would hams buy a rig with LOTS of bells and whistles, but poor RF performance, or a good performing rig but few features?". The verdict is hinging on how well accepted the TS-2000 is. If it continues to be a best-seller, then we can kiss weak-signal operations on our HF bands goodbye, as they become a mess of poorly-designed transmitter IMD and noise.
AM
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by WN5L on May 21, 2003
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If Hamvention was moved to a first class facility would hams be willing to pay more than the less than $20 dollar charge for three days admission? I doubt it! Let's face it, hams are notouriously the biggest tightwads there is! I'm sure facilities could be found with spotless restrooms and a potholess flea market area, but it would more than likely result in larger gate fees. Anyway, if one was found, that doesn't eliminate the slob hams who weigh 450 pounds and fart continuously or the hams who haven't bathed more than once a month or the hams that throw the pork sandwich wrappers down on the ground! Thank heaven we have Hara arena were the cheapskates and the fart intensive types will feel at home!
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by K8XQ on May 21, 2003
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Wow reading all these post is quite a daunting task and let me mention that I haven't made it to Dayton in the last four years do mainly to my health and the inability to walk long distances with my cain. After years as a professional medic and the ruptured disks in my back I received for my trouble, and the new knee I now need from playing ball in my youth.I would have required a scooter myself,and it is painfully obvious that my now sedate lifestyle has brought forth an increase in my allready large frame. However I am quite offended by the attitude that I have seen displayed here to people who need help getting around or might be larger then you. I am glad that you are so superior that you can find it in your hearts to ridicule and sit in judgement of those of us who are evidently so inferior to you and the others of your elite standing. As far as someone's slovenly grooming (or lack of) habits let me say I totally agree. There is nothing cheaper then a bar of soap. Also as the messy restrooms go parents should have been a little bit more diligent at potty training or possibly DARA needs to offer a forum on the fundamentals of toilet training. All this being said tolerance is a virtue and as a poet once put it "There but by the grace of God go I". I thought the whole purpose of this weekend was to be imersed in Ham Radio and have fun for God's sake. The Arena is substandard and logic dictates it be moved to Columbus, but when I walked in the main arena in 1981 for the first time I was so excited by the fact that I was in the largest venue that Amateur Radio had to offer I became short of breath and those were my svelt days,if they ever existed. The point is quit complaining have fun,thats what it's there for.73 Kevin K8XQ 24 years in the Hobby!
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by N0TONE on May 22, 2003
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N8XQ, nobody here is behaving "superior". It is sad, and somewhat disgusting, to see people who are in bad shape who do not have to be.
There actually IS something cheaper than a bar of soap, and that is eating less. Overweight is NOT an unavoidable medical condition. The average age in my local DX club is over 70, and the majority of the guys are plenty healthy to climb towers.
You have a story which can touch our hearts. As a man who's given to others, you suffered disk damage. If you are large-boned, then so it is. As you are from the medical profession yourself, I'm sure you know well enough to moderate your eating habits now that you must remain more sedate.
I felt nothing but cameraderie to the elderly hams on motorized carts. I felt pity for those who were obviously on carts only because they spent on hot dogs the way they spent on radios.
AM
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by NG1J on May 22, 2003
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Re: Hams on Carts....
Check out the Dayton photos web page:
http://www.qsl.net/wd5bjq/hamvent03.htm
Scroll down a little more than half way (say almost two-thirds) and you'll find a fine example of a motorized Ham with a large plastic bin in tow. Don't worry about what's in the bin, but take note of what's in the cart's front basket.
(Hint: it's not sprouts, tofu, chicken, and the latest copy of Muscle and Fitness)
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WB8NUT on May 22, 2003
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N0TONE, thanks for your input. The TS-2000 works very well on HF and not a complaint on the quality of the signal. I would also bet that if I had a QSO with you using the Kenwood, or my Yaesu, Patcomm, or TenTec, you would not be able to distinguish one rig from the other. I just love the rig/company bashing that seems to never stop in these forums, especially by people who fail to list their calls....hmmm, makes you wonder. Now, back to the Dayton comments.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N8CDN on May 22, 2003
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I first attended Hamvention in 1981 and have attended most since then. I remember being in awe at all the new gear that, at the time, I could only dream about. That was the year it snowed one day and was warm the next. I was so impressed that I still look foward to Hamvention every year. I still get that "little kid" Christmas morning type excited when I arrive every year. Sure the Hara Arena is a dump. The food is expensive and various other bitches that have already been aired out here but after all it is Dayton and it only comes once a year. I still enjoy it even though I bitch about the high cost of hotels, parking, etc.
See you next year!
Terry N8CDN
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by K3ESE on May 22, 2003
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Wow. Lots of replies here, lots of opinions. Everyone seems to have one! <g> Here's mine:
This was my first 'vention, and I loved it! I went there to meet my QRP buddies that I QSO/email/AIM with, and to learn from them, and share the projects we've been working on. That stuff worked out great!
Also, of course, to shop, and lose myself in an ocean of hams. That part worked well, too. I felt like I was in a toy store in heaven. I've never seen so many vendors, inside and outside. I fortunately chose Friday to spend outdoors, in the flea market, so I was able to spend Saturday out of the rain, indoors, and not miss too much.
My needs were not great: I decided to get some Hamsticks, to be mobile on my return trip, and that was easy. I needed a 100pF air-variable capacitor for a project, and searching for one gave me a lovely reason to perambulate through the flea market with a purpose, and examine hundreds of beautiful caps, before finding the right one. I bought some RF connector/adapters, some clip leads, a great key for mobile ops, and other little odds and ends.
I used the porta-potties on the perimeter of the parking lot, and never have I ever used such clean, odor-free, well-maintained outdoor facilities, anywhere.
For food, one day I had a ham 'n cheese sammich from a church group...very nice; and the other day I had an official bratwurst and a lemonade. Not gourmet cooking, but beyond adequate.
Most of all, I liked the hams! I could, and often did, have a nice conversation with virtually anyone I was standing next to. Good bunch of folks, and I guess I just missed the malodorous ones.
One thing many others have mentioned...the busses(kisses). I didn't get any, until I got back home to my xyl. The buses seemed to work just fine, though!
I'll see those of you whose glasses are also half-full, there, next year!
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by KC8VWM on May 22, 2003
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Personally, I showered with Irish Spring before I attended the event.
I also took the liberty to engage in the proverbial Annual Dayton Shower Event which takes place every year.
For those that have never attended Dayton, this special event takes place almost every year for amateur radio operators and is usually located outside in the fleamarket area. It is usually held on Saturday's, or when there is the most people in attendance. Which ever comes first.
Not only can an individual acquire a new radio, but they can arrived home squeeky clean too!
All fun aside, I think they did a great job in planning the Hamvention event and I enjoyed it immensly.
73s
Charles Bushell
KC8VWM
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RE: It's "put up or shut up"?
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by KB1IUB on May 22, 2003
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:Ok K1IUB, how would you increase attendance and make
:everybody happy? Now Pat, pay attention.
Perhaps if you read my initial post? A new location
with modern amenities and lower prices. I also stated
to remove all non radio dealers. I would look for radio exhibts and dealers only. I would also organize them with general radio section, collins only, stores such as AES or HRO, etc.
30k is not a large amount to attend a show. I really
doubt that the Dayton area cares about 30k. There is
no leverage to gain by staying at Dayton IMHO. It is
better to find a cheaper locale via air and close to airport. If the people can avoid rental cars and pay a cheap fare to the airport hub only, they would come.
I would not allow any part of the event to be outside. I don't see any need for it at all.
Perhaps you should have read my first post.
I will volunteer to run the event. I would not require any staff for administration of the event. I would only require staff to supervise security, admission, maintenance, customer complaints, etc on the days of Hamvention.
bill
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8VWM on May 22, 2003
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Oh, yes one more thought....
About the port-a-potties outside...
I managed to hook up my new 160m antenna on it and used this make shift ham shack to chase DX in over 75 countries!!
I will soon have photos of the ham shack showing my field day event that took place in the Dayton fleamarket area in the near future.
I have since placed my DXCC certificate on the wall next to the TP in anticipation of next years event.
But I am sure there are many success stories like this one from Dayton every year.
73s
KC8VWM
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by G3RZP on May 22, 2003
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Some of the flea market asking prices were amazing. $495 for an old Vibroplex in not very good condition, admittedly with carrying case. Not even the gold plated variety!
Given the problems with contracted transport, the Hamvention people did a fine job. For many of us, the social side at the hospitality suites is a major part of the Dayton enjoyment, and they were great.
Biggest downside was finding that American Airlines now charge for wine and beer in economy class when flying transatlantic. Thank heavens I'd had enough miles to upgrade!
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by K9TTT on May 22, 2003
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Pat, great job.....never been, really want to, no vacations allowed by my company in May...
Dayton speaks for itself....If it were everything this tread accuses of being, why do the major rags give it the attention they do?
To all you whiners...if it costs too much don't go..Dayton will survive without you...if the equipment is too high priced..don't buy it...if it rains...well whanca gunna do? Call it off and play a double header tomorrow?
Some people DO really need carts..and some have medical conditions which pushing one away from the table is not going to deter.
Location and facilities...I'm sure the people at Dayton are doing all they can. Yup some things will be a rip off from hotels, resturents, etc. If you don't believe this is going to stop you are sadly navie.
You guys are all whining about small inconviences mostly to yourself. Most of you keep on coming back. If it is so bad, why do you spend your money coming?
It is disapointing to hear all the negitive comments. I personally am looking forward to the day I can force my company to let me go. As for all you whiners, stay home and don't ruin it for me..
Dale K9TTT
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by K1OU on May 22, 2003
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If Hamvention is to remain in Dayton, I would think it time for DARA to pressure Hara into making some upgrades to the facility. A nice new coat of blacktop would be nice. Any hams out there run a paving company who would consider doing it at a bargain price? And did anybody else worry about falling through the plywood in the arena where you exit the stands to go to the main floor?
Hire some more temp labor whose sole responsibility would be to clean the facilities and empty the garbage once an hour. It can't be that hard to find about twenty extra bodies for seven bucks an hour.
Stagger ticket prices. Really, twenty-two dollars to hang out for six hours is rather exorbitant. If somebody wants to go for one day, make it ten bucks. Two days, seventeen dollars. And so on.
How about having some of the better restaurants in town cater? A slab of ribs and fries from Damon's for ten dollars is a lot better than two processed faux-meatwiches and chips with a shelf life of dust.
Turn up the pressure on local business. Show firsthand what could happen unless they shape up and fly correctly. I'm all for supply and demand, but extortion doesn't get it done. Money talks, you know what walks. Maybe on the website, publish non-Hamvention hotel rates juxtaposed against Hamvention rates. I am not against somebody making a profit, but I am against greed.
Don't get me wrong, I think Hamvention is a great event. However, it is becoming less appealing every year when one pays more and gets less. And a lot of people who feel this way are making their opinion known by not going.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N4KZ on May 22, 2003
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This was my 27th consecutive Hamvention and I wouldn't miss it for anything. But the weather was definitely a downer this year but there's nothing any of us can do about that. Hara Arena is certainly showing its age and lack of proper upkeep. According to the future Hamvention dates published in the program, the Hamvention will move to the third week of May starting in 2005. Let's pray the weather is better. (BTW, Hara is owned by a family. It's not a municipal facility and the arena is not even in Dayton. It's in the town of Trotwood.)
I do have one BIG beef about Hamvention -- it's about all you guys wearing backpacks and toting those luggage carriers/handcarts around. While these contraptions might be convenient for you, they are quite a nuisance to those of us who are getting knocked down, hit and having our feet run over. Wearing a backpack makes you twice as wide as normal and when you turn around in tight quarters, as is the case in the arena in front of popular booths, you are hitting the rest of us consistently. One guy didn't even know the long HT antenna sticking from his backpack had fallen over to the side and was poking people -- including me -- in the eye as he walked along.
Most of us are not school children so please stop looking like one when attending Hamvention. Leave the backpacks at home.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by W4PA on May 22, 2003
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HamVention chairman N8IGS wrote:
>I care about the show and every aspect of it. We have >looked at other locations, and the next several years >will tell if we can work it all out.
>If you have direct comments for me, you should know >my email address, it is chair@hamvention.org.
>Sincerely.
>Pat Neff, N8IGS, General Chairman, Hamvention 2003
Lost in the din is listening to inside vendor concerns - this was another tough year logistics wise at Dayton for us. I voiced my concerns earlier this spring, as I've done in years past direct to DARA.
How do you spell relief? I-N-D-I-A-N-A-P-O-L-I-S.
73
Scott Robbins, W4PA
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K2WE on May 22, 2003
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N4KZ.. You hit the nail right on the head with your backpack comment. I was hit so many times by backpacks, I just gave up. One fellow with the largest backpack I've ever seen knocked 3 people off there feet just turning around in the arena!! There is no need to wear them indoors.. I've been attending now for 23 straight years and have followed the steady decline in attendence.. But remember, moving this event is really out of the question as the sponsor is "The Dayton Amateur Radio Association".. Yes.. Dayton.. As long as they sponsor the event, It will stay in Dayton.. They MUST get the Hara Arena to make much needed repairs to the indoors and outdoors.. It's really sad.. I liked the event better when it was held in April, Snow & all.. I wonder how long they can have this event with the attendence dropping every year?? There has to be a minimum attendence before they lose on the event.. Right now, I'll have to think twice before I commit to a 24th year..
73 Steve/K2WE
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K8KS on May 22, 2003
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I think you guys mean "sedentary" and not "sedate." On second thought, you might be sedate too. Sorry, I'll shut up. I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KC2CAG on May 22, 2003
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This was my fourth year attending. Still a blast and I will come back as long as the Hamvention exists. Yep, not all that neat and clean, but that's part of the "charm!" The fellow whose wife described a hamfest as a the "Star Wars Bar Scene" is quite right! A great place for people watching and snagging unusual or unexpected bargains. Just ignore those overpriced rigs and go on to the next space. See you next year, wherever you are...
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Hamvention 2003:
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by RAD1OMAN on May 22, 2003
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You guys crack me up. My two year old kid whines less then some of the children on this group.
I walked the flea market for four days. After I set up our booth inside, I wandered the outside, and you must have attended a different flea market than I did! Yes, 4 days, setup day is Thursday and is the first day for the FDIM activities.
Handicapped scooters: Yes, there were many, too many? Well, lets consider this, amateur radio is getting old and infirm. As an ARRL official once told me, ham radio is made up of old fat white men. Look around, most of the hams are in their fifties, most hams are hams because they can sit behind a microphone or a key or a keyboard and never have to leave the house. Most shacks are located in the basement or den or some other private room. Does anyone really have the station located in the family room? So the number of scooters were perhaps seventy-five in the entire flea market and there were 20,000 attendees. I will agree that some (one or two) did not need the scooter, they borrowed dads because the kid was lazy. Ask and I will give a call sign of the one that I know.
I can watch where I walk, I did not get hit by a scooter, I did not walk into a scooter, if you did, ask your doctor to change your prescription.
The restrooms. I used the restrooms in the Silver Arena, the exhibitors lounge, and the Pub. They were not as clean as the restrooms at the Ramada, but they were no where near as disgusting as portrayed! The were as clean as the Mc Donald’s at I-75 and Needmore, or the Wendy’s at Salem and Shilo Springs or the Applebee’s on Salem. 20,000 attendees will strain any infrastructure, and yes, Hara had people cleaning up after you.
The food. No one forced you to eat that stuff. It is your choice to support the local suppliers. Don’t like it, don’t eat it!
Back packs: Some guys are in the flea market to BUY, thank you! I fully understand the need to carry the purchases with you. Maybe the back pack whiner will carry it for you next year.
I used to think that ticket prices were a bit high, but you know, $6.00 per day is less then any of the local fests that only draw 500 to 2000. The alternative would be to charge per day, advanced purchase all three/17.00, Sat/Sun/18.00, just Sat/16.00. The Sat/Sun tickets would be at the door only. The cost per vendor is very reasonable.
Face it, the Hamvention is a cross section of society. Not all attendees are hams, many are CB’ers, SWL, computer geeks and just plain strange people (my favorites are the green radio guys, and then there is the guy with the tower on his hat and the cat-in-the-hat guy). The Hamvention is the place to let it all hang out! HEY, could be what goes on at Bike Week or Mardi Gras. Think that hams are nuts, go to a UFO convention or Burning Man.
If you do not like the Hamvention, vote with your feet, start a competing event. Set up in Las Vegas, maybe a week before or after Comdex so I can hang out in Vegas a week longer.
Just cut the whining or you will go to bed without a bottle.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N8VQJ on May 23, 2003
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HAH HAHHAHHHAA! Yep. Chips and a MD! Breakfast of champions on scooters.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N6JSX on May 23, 2003
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I'd like to add that DARA is doing an OUTSTANDING job with what they have to work with (HARA management). DARA does not control the food vendors so no harping on them about the outragious food prices.
FYI, I saw plenty of security and only found one unmanned door leading to the flea market.
What did bother me this year was I saw no SUPER deals from AES/HRO/MFJ/R&L or any other inside big sellers.
The big 4 (Kwood/Yaesu/Icom/Alinco) didn't have any SUPER Dayton deals either. I only saw two new radios being shown - one at Kwood and the other at Icom. Both were NOT impressive and I would not purchase.
I would point out to all the prize donations - Yaesu really gave DARA a lot of items to the tune of about $24K. The other two didn't even give half or a quarter of that. DARA consider for next year - Yaesu gets the arena floor to reward their service to the Hamvention or theri choice in booth spots.
I went to Kwood to demo a problem with the TH-6A HT - the lock contol only locks the keypad not including the selector knob. In the Dayton crowd this selector knob got bumped often putting me off frequency. His comment to me was "this is how the 'Japs' think - lock control is only for the keypad." I was amazed by his response (observing a scent of attitude and political incorrectness about his employer) and decided any further discussions were useless.
As for back-packs - I wore a daypack and will continue to wear one. Inside my pack is a folding luggage cart. With as many miles as one walks at Dayton you be a FOOL not to have a pack. However, I did see some rather weird para-military wann-a-bee's wearing cammo and large packs like they were going camping. Another form of HAM exibitionism these guys were a hazard with the large packs and whips going in all directions.
Will I be back - Heck YES, but I think I'll drive a cart this time my knee is bother me - old Navy injury.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N9RV on May 23, 2003
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I've gone to every Hamvention (except one) since 1973,
and this one was about the same as them all. I liked the fact that the crowds inside were a bit down -- it made it easier to chat with vendors and actually look at merchandise I once was only able to glimpse.
As far as people, carts, backpacks, etc., when you get that many people in any given area, that goes with the territory, doesn't it? And any problem with high prices is self-correcting.
I think the problem is really HARA. It is crumbling before our eyes, and while this year's Dayton wasn't much different than last, over ten years it's deterioration is glaring. Two days after Dayton I went over to the Indy 500 track, and the cleanliness and functionality of those facilities was stunning next to HARA.
Its great that we have this internet medium to voice our opinions, but if you're relying on comments like these to make up your mind whether or not to go to Dayton, you're making a mistake. Its just too big of an event for any one person's experience to be relevant.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K9XYZ on May 23, 2003
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Well I attended on Friday got what I went for and saved money on several new items, personally I don't want to buy someone else's used junk. I have on a couple of occassions found a good buy at the flea market but usually all you see is people trying to sell scratched up junk for more than a new one costs.
Seems to me several of you spend entirely too much time in the bathrooms, lots of people = dirty bathrooms unless people are standing there to clean up after them continuosly, not gonna happen, just use it and get out, not exactly a place to carry on a visit although I saw that the ONE time I quickly made a pit stop. I agree with parking I usually pay accross the street and the past several years its been muddy, not much we can do about the weather.
I'm glad I parked there even though I had a long walk carrying several things when I was done, the bus situation was a nightmare Friday morning, I was listening on the talk in freq., many people were walikng from the mall. That should not have happened, personally I like hamvention and I like Hara, even though it's seen better days, but perhaps someplace else that has parking on premises and better facilites may be in order in the future.
73
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K6TLA on May 23, 2003
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Please forget Vegas. Can you imagine the Paris buffet crowded by a bunch of slobs on scooters? I'd never be able to digest my crab legs and venison. Seriously, isn't there someone interested in doing an upscale world class ham event where everyone has access to a legitimate income and a can of deodorant?
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KA2LIM on May 23, 2003
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Been a ham for 25 years. Could never go because of business and commitments. Went this year for the first time with three friends. Had a Blast..... Will I go again ? YOU BET !
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA3KQA on May 24, 2003
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On Friday morning - line waiting for the bus at the Salem mall was 200+ yards long! I waited 45 minutes to get on bus - missing were the Dayton City buses that handled more people. The smaller mini shuttle buses were plentiful but were slower moving the people.
Having to park and ride to the Salem mall I believe discourages heavy item purchases to get to your car - sure you can go back to your car and drive up to the arena to pickup - or if you can carry - bus back to your car to load - but the time lost roundtrip can be everybit of 45 minutes lost for the day.
At the end of the day - I waited 35 minutes in a long line to get back to my car to leave at 5pm.
I think Columbus fairground facilities would be much better and result in a larger hamvention than Hara Arena can handle.
This is my last hamvention in Dayton.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N8EMR on May 24, 2003
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The bus line was long friday but was moving and inproved on saturday.
I know the bus company was a quick fix when the orginal bus comapany that had been scheduled went bankrupt several days before the hamvention.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA8QNN on May 24, 2003
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"I'll be back". Still enjoyed the Hamvention in spite of the rain and lousy facilities (come on now they ain't that bad, or maybe they are). I would hope the bus situation gets straightened out for next year. I will say this, the only difference since they moved the Hamvention to May is the rain is warmer than the rain in April.
Larry
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KC2LAH on May 24, 2003
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I am new to Ham radio having just got my first license a few months back and was thinking of going to Dayton next year, but after reading this form I'm not sure if I want to pack up my 2 kids and wife and go...for the new Ham is it really worth driving 8 hours(from New York) to go? Can someone give me some good advice. I am planning on going to my 1st Hamfest in Rochester next weekend...really looking forward to that....Thanks..
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8WCW on May 24, 2003
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KC2LAH: I went to Hamvention this year, and it was my first time. As enjoyable as it was, I think I would have been pretty disappointed if I had driven 8 hours to do so. Given the press that's associated with the event, it's certainly the place to see virtually everything available from most of the players in the Ham community. On the other hand, I would probably be happier attending a typical Hamfest in my general region, rather than driving such a distance. In my case, I live in Cincinnati. The drive was therefore no big issue.
If you really have your heart set on coming, I'd plan a short vacation with other activities in mind, and take in the Hamvention as just a stop on the way. Of course that's only my opinion. Some folks come from halfway around the world!
KC8WCW
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Hamvention 2003:
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by N0C411 on May 24, 2003
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Face it folks the growth of Ham Radio is dead. Attendance will not increase by moving the Hamvention to another venue, nor will the number of new Hams. It will continue to fester in the fringes of our society, until its lack of civil worth and government oversight costs are fully recognized at which time it will disappear for good. Bounded by archaic regulations, written in a time when telecommunication were tightly controlled by our government and international NGO entities, the fundamental technologies of Ham radio have fallen far behind current engineering capabilities. Even the ARRL’s much touted 802.11 effort leaves little to the imagination, and in most regards, is a misuse of time and funds. We are little more than Citizens Bands operators, zero courtesy and tons of ignorance. The Hamvention continues to exemplify this fact year after year.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA8QNN on May 24, 2003
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And concerning backpacks. I'm one of those people who use a backpack for the convienence of carring my "prized" acquisitons. Mine is not oversized. If the Hamvention staff, in their wisdom, find that backpacks are eventually disallowed then disallow some of my fellow hams that are morbidly obese. Trying to get around these guys can be a formiable challenge. And speaking of lack of hygiene some of these guys think hygiene is a salutation to their buddy Eugene.
Sorry for not being Politically Correct.
Larry
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA2JJH on May 24, 2003
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Sorry, I did not go. What I would like to know, where there any real ultra bargains. To me that is how I measure a Hamfest.
So to those who loved Dayton this year, would you give an example of their best ULTRA bargain they got.
An example might be a HF rig you picked up for 10%
of it's original price. Or you got a motorola service monitor for under $1500.
TNX MIKE
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KA8SUB on May 24, 2003
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Just a note, I agree with others posted here..the conditions at the HARA Arena were bad. Hygene - personal and facility - was bad. I smelled one guy after he walked into the arena from the rain who made a wet dog smell like a field of roses! I can't fathom how people (hams) who have worked to test for their license...learning electrical theory and morse code...have no clue about bathing once and a while. I know that some folks are "out with the guys" but come on, your not the Wicked Witch of the West, soap and water has yet to melt human flesh!
As for the backpacks....I use one and will continue to use one. It sucks to carry around a bagfull of stuff in your hands all day. I'm not running back 1/2 a mile to the car to drop things off that I've picked up during my visit to the arena. Yes, I agree that backpacks can become annoying to others, all that is needed is curtosy on the part of all parties. People cram up your ass to look at stuff....I've yet to hear someone say "excuse me, can I please get in to look at ....or can I ask you to move over....". No they just climb up your back and then complain that they were violated by your equipment. I personally try do my best to avoid offending others with my pack but, it is bound to happen when I'm in a crowd with others.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KC8Q on May 25, 2003
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I have to agree with the other ham......
Cleveland IX Center would be a perfect place for the hamvention !!!!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WB8KKZ on May 25, 2003
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Yes the number of attendees were down. It seemed quite apparent, the grand prizes were awesome, but in years past it was higher. Its all still great, and Im sure its a huge undertaking with that much money in merchandise and people to take care of. Prices were very competitive, and the brats were still sizzling in the flea market. I see the tented area of the flea market changed. Not quite the same, must have been a problem someway or another. We enjoy the show from friday morning til the last prize is given away. Some great hourly's given away for folks not able to stay.
There was one web cam in the flea market, and you had to be paying attention to find it, what a great group there. My father, W8CHK, age 83, passed away last year and until he became ill, he went for years. He loved that hamfest. What a terrific bunch of memories we have for attending since the early 70's. Thanks!
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by WB8KKZ on May 25, 2003
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Funny, overhearing people... on our 2 meter frequency, I was quietly laughing over hearing a lady trying
find out shirt sizes to buy ham shirts for the husband .. he was like whatever... she kept trying to get colors and sizes.... it was so mars vs.venus! cute..
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by WB8KKZ on May 25, 2003
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DITTO !!!! ALL THE WAY AND KUDOS TO THE WRITER! IT WAS RIGHT ON!
Let me sit down..........
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WB4QNG on May 25, 2003
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Been quite afew times and this one was normal. Rain seems to be the norm every time I go. Did have rain gear but still not much fun in the flea market. Agree with used prices not only at Dayton but everywhere. You can buy new as cheap as used. At Dayton I think it seems worse because you just seen the rig for $150 inside new that they want $145 used outside. Did get a bargin on my new V8000 and UT106. Would love to see it under one roof so no more rain but then would it be Dayton. I hate to say this but lets face it we are OLD MEN and a lot of them are fat. WIll be back but not next year unless I need some new gear..
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by WA2JJH on May 25, 2003
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Excellent Photo Essay. You reaaly captured some of DAYTONS character and quirks.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KC2CAG on May 25, 2003
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KC2LAH: Hey, I've been driving the 8 hours from WNY for four years now, and it's well worth it. I feel sorry for the folks who live too far away to be able to drive in a reasonable amount of time. As far as taking the wife and kids - well... my 21 year old daughter spent an entire Friday with me there two years ago. She seemed pretty bored, but still talks about the experience - kind of humoring Dear Old Dad. My wife spent the day in Dayton this year, roaming the library at the U. of D. and a few other places. Went to Indy on Saturday to visit my brother, then stopped (with my wife) back at Dayton for about 1 1/2 hours on Sunday. She's kind of a flea market buff, and said that if she traveled with me next year, she would go to the Hamvention rather than try to cruise around finding something to do in Dayton. So, it kind of depends what interests your wife and kids to figure out if they will like it. Go to Rochester next weekedn (I've been there 4x also) and it's like a mini-Dayton - probably about 20% the size of Dayton, but still the biggest in WNY. You WILL enjoy it.
Regards!
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by N3JWJ on May 26, 2003
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2003 was my 5th Hamvention trip in a row. I live 225 mile from Hara, so it is an easy trip. As I was driving back home, I came to the conclusion that I will probably skip some future Hamventions.
My general feeling is that enough of the thrill is gone that the hassle factor out weighs the fun.
The flea market is full of junk and the real bargains are gone by Friday afternoon. It's a waste of time by Saturday. (Not sure what the Hamvention could do to fix this.)
The dealers like AES and HRO really do have the best prices of the year, but the crowds at their tables are crushing and I can order at Hamvention prices by calling them Friday on the phone.
Hamvention is slowly shrinking each year. There were no activities and no banquet. The forum content has become very predictable. Hara Arena seems ready to implode sometime soon.
The parking and bus situation is driving attendees away. Once there were plenty of free spacious municipal buses that allowed me to take my purchase back to the car and quickly get back to Hara. Now I think twice about buying something. And yes, I wear a back pack to avoid time consuming trips to the car.
The best thing about Dayton is eyeball contacts with folks I only meet on the air. That will keep me returning some years, but not so often.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KD3JF on May 27, 2003
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Do you remember WHY the Hamvention was moved to May from April? Think real hard! It was to get away from the rain. In April the last few years it rained the whole weekend. In 2001 I know it rained on Friday but no problem... I had a golf size umbrella and you know what? They let us inside early in the morning instead of waiting till noon!
Paul
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by KD3JF on May 27, 2003
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Get your ham license and then quit whinning! What do you expect? Perfection at Dayton? Get a life....<g>
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by KD3JF on May 27, 2003
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As I have read a lot of the replies and high prices ... I have not read one thing about negotiating the price at the flea market. Lots of times I think the seller wants some wiggle room to negotiate with a prospective buyer. So, normally some sellers in the flea market do not expect to get the price they ask at first.
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by W9TS on May 27, 2003
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>So to those who loved Dayton this year, would you ?>give an example of their best ULTRA bargain they got.
>An example might be a HF rig you picked up for 10%
>of it's original price. Or you got a motorola service >monitor for under $1500.
Can't say I "loved" Dayton this year (see abv), but I did get one "ultra" bargain. Found an Applied Microsystems microprocessor emulator with two emulator pods complete on Sunday AM for $5 (new value >$25,000). We continue to use similar emulators at my employment. Still working my way down to that level in the pile to determine if it works, but hey, if it doesn't I won't feel bad - it meets one of W9TS's (my) four Laws of Hamfesting (these laws also must be applied to e-bay purchases):
1. Buy it if you actually see it work and have physically verifed its condition or it is impossible to not work (for example, a book always works).
2. Buy it if it costs so little that you won't feel badly putting it on the curb on garbage night.
3. Buy it if you can recover your outlay by selling or otherwise deriving equivalent value from its components or sub-assemblies
4. Buy it if you feel sufficiently competent to repair it.
Note that only one Law requires the item to work and the other three require taking a measured amount of risk. The price I offer will be determined by the number of Laws the subject item satisfies.
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by W1RG on May 28, 2003
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Went to Dayton again. Loved it ... .again. Didn't go for the 'bargains'. Went 'cause it's DAYTON.
I tend to ignore the things that many here have grumbled about. I got to meet some more nice folks, see some new stuff, (you all know about 'stuff') and bought a little.
I spent all day Friday in the flea... er, outside vendor area. Yup, there are some folks that feel that their dumpster scrapings are holy relics, but there were lots of things worth evaluating.
Saturday was disappointing because of the wx, but doesn't it always manage to rain at Dayton, at least one day. I did manage to avoid the restroom plague, and only had to stand in line 5 minutes for my two hotdogs and a soda for $6.
But it's DAYTON. CU all next year. At Dayton.
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by K9CSM on May 28, 2003
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W8IJN really tells it like it is/was. I enjoyed his writing. Am I glad I took my showers regularly! You don't really think that those that didn't actually slept in their cars so they have more $$$ for Ham Gear? Or, are they like that at home too?
Ben Piller, K9CSM
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Hamvention 2003:
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by WA2JJH on May 28, 2003
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Just some satirical 2 cents visa-vi The Dayton experience.
After Reading some of the more demeaning descriptions of our fellow HAMS, the rain,the mud, the parking,the security, and the infamouse ultra unsanitary PORTOSANS.
I think a NON-HAM baby boomer's perception of DAYTON
would be WOODSTOCK of 1969, sans the Drugs, Freelove,and the Great Music of that time!
73 and laughs MIKE
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by KC7FLP on May 28, 2003
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I certainly feel badly for disabled folks, amd while I am about 40 lbs. overweight, I walked at least 10 miles each day at the outdoor flea market, carried my own low cal food in a wheeled suitcase (so those who read this and were at Hamvention know who I am) and actually LOST weight! So there's gonna be one less FAT HAM at Dayton next year. Who needs a Gym or Halth Club when you can lose weight at swap meets?
I bought about 200 lbs. of goodies at what I thought were BARGAIN prices at the flea market and learned that when United Airlines says "50 lbs. weight limit for 2 bags" they ain't a kidding!!!
And I found out first hand the UPS Store in Fairborn, OH has great customer service and lower shipping rates IF you bring your gear to them on Monday after the Hamvention closes.
It's not cheap flying from Seattle to Dayton and staying for 5 1/2 days but in my opinion, it's well wroth it. Next year will be my 4th year and counting!!
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Hamvention 2003:
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by K8BBE on May 30, 2003
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Well another Dayton Hamvention has come and gone. I have to say, I've been going to Dayton since 1956, and only missed three years because they didn't want to move it to some war zone, but still have fun. I must say, the flea market is not growing, but the price to set up sure is. I've been setting up for about 20 years now, but this year, I just can't see the cost. I had a friend of mine who told the Hamvention, to just keep his HF radio he was selling there. By the time you buy your space, and sell your radio, you may still need to pay, instead of getting some goodie. I believe they should turn the flea market back to Jo Hamm, and put the spaces back in line. Lets call it a Flea market again. I can see the crowd was down again. A good way to tell that was lines at the outside out-house. I can say lots more but will be there again next year to do it all over again. Maybe only 2 days next time. NOT !!!!!!!!
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N8FZ on May 30, 2003
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For you new Hams and others who have never been to Dayton, dont let all of the negative comments discourage you form going at least once. Remember there are 20,000 plus Hams who make the trip year after year. Although numbers have dropped somewhat, those numbers probably mirror the decline in number of Hams percentage wise. Word to the wise, book your rooms NOW while the rates are still reasonable.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KD4UXH on May 30, 2003
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Hamvention 2003 was a close call this year, we nearly didn't make it this year which would've been a shame, it was my 10th year attending. Unfortunately, my Elmer didn't get to go up this year, we missed him!
Friday's weather was great though it did start off very foggy but it was no worse than the fog that we had driven up in since 3 in the morning. The fog was burned off by the sun which mad for a hot & humid day.
Saturday was of course bad and rainy, isn't this the usual case though? *lol* Luckily, we had spent all day Friday outside shopping & had planned on shopping indoors on Saturday anyway so it really didn't effect us any.
Cheers: To DARA for not allowing a lot of the riff-raff garbage equipment & computer left-overs into the flea market area this year, granted there was still some stuff that should've been shown the door but overall, it was better this year.
Jeers: To whomever decided to not have the nicer restroom facilities outside but instead have Port-A-Potty's. This was really bad judgement!
Jeers: To whomever was over the parking & security of the "Mud Bowl" parking lot this year. On Friday, they did alright, though they usually end up parking people too tight. On Saturday, they were nowhere to be seen, literally! Granted, this made it easier to park more comfortably but it also caused a lot of people to be bogged down in the "swamp"! Also, usually when it's bad & rainy, you'll usually see at least 1 or 2 tow trucks on scene to help out the hapless Ham but not this year! Someone's slacking the duties there! I'm not sure who's responsible for the parking areas but for $8/day, they'd better be getting on the ball & making sure that people are not stranded in the swamps up there. *s*
Cheers: To the indoor vendors for making it fun to attend & I guess to help lighten the damp mood by having "Q&A contests" and giving away more stuff this year. Also, I have to give credit to Yaesu for finally giving away good quality hats this year (full cloth not just mesh backing).
DARA are you listening to your fellow Amateurs? Don't skimp on the restroom facilities! Do something about the parking arrangements so people don't get stuck in the mud! Fix pricing on food & drinks (eg. $2 bottles of water).
Oh, one last thing I have to mention. I had the chance to randomly meet the ARRL president while at Dayton this year. He was in an unguarded moment talking to another gentleman near where I was resting outside on Saturday evening. He was ranting and raving on about how the Mexicans were "upset" about something or other and the Russians were "happy" with it, he never quite eluded to just what "it" was that they were upset & happy about though. He also eluded to just how "cheap" it was to feed the Chinese when he was entertaining them while in the States, he told the sotry of taking them out to a really nice restaurant & all they wanted were french fries! Yes, french fries! I bet that if he's reading this now, he's wishing he had just kept his big mouth shut but then again, if he did that he wouldn't be part of the ARRL! *LOL*
Overall: Dayton was a success as far as I saw it, though as I mentioned, there were a few problems but then again when hasn't there been problems somewhere? *LOL*
I look forward to next year.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by KA9LDD on May 31, 2003
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My wife (KB9USJ ) and I have gone to 6 hamVentions we have had a good time every year and are going next year ,I do not like the hotel/motel prices but as with any major event you /we will be gouged .
I had a few things that I was looking for none of which I bought either could not find or not enough time ,when a used Icom 706 mk2g or Yaesu Ft100 /D sells for more than a new in the box guess which I will buy (I have a 706mk2g) wanted to find a used one but new is better because at least if it breaks Icom will take care of it for a year . Must be somethig wrong with me ,I think a used radio or piece of equipment should not be more that 1/2 of new because the used WILL NOT have a warranty, and no my 706mk2g is NOT for sale.
A friend bought a Tarheel antenna that I have been trying works good just cannot get excited enough to buy my own , I will use my 96 or 102 whip and a autotuner . I do like the new Ft857 and the ATAS 120 antenna .
The best deal I saw this year was the new shoes that I bought in one of the stores that was still open on the Salem Mall and the sales person gave me a 15% discount because I was attending the HamVention.
Still was great fun even with all of the bad comments about the HARA arena .
The DARC does a good job considering that it is all volunteer .
Looking forward to 2004
Jim and Linda
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N7JI on May 31, 2003
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From Seattle to Dayton...
Try Eugene to Dayton sometime for "low" fares :)
Usually, I end up going to PDX and flying to Columbus or Cincy. Much cheaper.
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Hamvention 2003:
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by K9TTT on May 31, 2003
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Well a lot of interesting comments here, so good ones and some not so good. For all you chaps who like to sell stuff, buy stuff, and collect stuff, and think Indy might be the place; let me offer some thoughts as a former Hoosier.
1. Indy is a convention town. Football, and basketball reign. Many, many insurance companyies make it there home. May is the absolute worst time to try and do anything in Indy. With the Indy people moving coming to town in late April, rates on EVERYTHING go sky high. Bad johns at Dayton? How about PAYING to use one that is wet on the floor with no TP. Yup, been there, done that. Time trials on the weekends draw 10's of thousands of people, not to mention race day which will have 500,000+ people. Motels and Hotels are booked solid for a 50+ mile radius months in advance. 30,000 hams make a diff?
2. If the Hamvention is moved to Indy (or anywhere else for that matter) who is going to step forward and front the thousands of dollars for ad's, promotions, and other expenses associated with running Hamvention?
I think the DARA folks have the program down as what has to be done, when to do it, how to do it etc. Despite some problems that DARA is quite aware of and I am sure they are addressing; they have the best handle on putting the show on. Let's let them do their thing. They got us this far...Let's not try and re-invent the wheel.
73's; Dale K9TTT
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by ADMINISTRATOR on June 20, 2003
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having just returned from a week long RV Rally, I would highly suggest the Kentucky Fair and Expo Center in Louisville KY for a possible "hamvention" site.
Imagine, 6000 RV's 43,000 people, all indoor! I do not know the acreage under roof, but the place is HUGE. The entire hamvention would fit UNDER ROOF, no more rain, cold, snow, sunburn problems, plenty of restrooms -- LARGE restrooms, TWO indoor shower facilities (that will make a select few happy), easy access to interstate highways and the airport - the place is perfect.
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by N0MLR on June 27, 2003
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Hey here is an Idea. That may get more attendance....
How about the cordinators of the event allowing Hams to register Email addresses and be notified 6 3 and 1 month prior to the event..
I have been a Ham since 97 and I dont remember any articles or advertisements mentioning the dates. It seams nobody wants the time of the event published but every one wants to gripe when attendance falls. I know the ARRL probably has it in a small place in its magazine or bulitins. But for those of us who does not buy into the pourpose and direction of the Arrl it would help to have another method to anounce the dates.
Just a thought.
Greg Dunn N0MLR
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RE: Hamvention 2003:
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by K8KS on July 2, 2003
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Hi, there from Friedrichshafen. I just happened to stop by the annual hamfest here on my way to Switzerland on business last week. There were about 20,000 plus people at the convention. I was stunned at how clean and spotless this place was. People seemed to be amazingly well-attired, olfactorily neutral, well-behaved, etc. I won't go into that and beat a dead horse. Of course, lots interesting junk, as well as treasures, in the flea market. Had lots of fun and met lots of interesting folks from all over the world.
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