eHam.net - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community

Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Speak Out
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net


QSL Managers
     

Ham Links
     



[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Scamming at the Speed of Light

Tom Steidel (WD5BCL) on June 15, 2003
View comments about this article!


Scamming at the Speed of Light

I've noticed an increasing influx of reports from fellow amateurs regarding the Internet scams they've encountered in the past few weeks and months. While such illicit solicitation is deplorable, it is nigh unto unstoppable over the Internet. If there appears to be little we can do to stop, I believe there are steps we can take to avoid being duped by these Internet highway bandits.

1. Deal only with other amateurs. This is, after all, a site dedicated to amateur radio operators. I am personally suspicious of anyone who does not post their call sign without an explanation; i.e., selling ham gear from an estate of a SK. If you are a ham, and refuse to post a call sign with your ad, or reply with yours in response to mine, don't be surprised if I don't want to do business with you. I have to wonder what you have to hide, that you wouldn't identify yourself by your call.

I have been "hamming" for a number of years, and have met very, very few amateurs who aren't proud of their gear, and equally proud of their reputation. This said, I have read a few accounts on eHam.net that cite licensed amateurs for less-than-honorable behavior, misrepresentations, and outright fraud. I suppose that there will always be those few in any organization that lack the integrity of their peers. Shame on them! We police our ranks, and quickly identify those who don't measure up. Because we do, we enjoy a very favorable standing in the community for our integrity, even if our towers sometimes attract too much attention.

2. Take the time to communicate before you transact. It never hurts to spend the extra time to write to and/or talk with the party with whom you plan to do business. I've made some lifelong friends as a result of chatting about a potential purchase or sale. If, after communicating with the other party, you have reservations, withdraw from the deal. Some of the scams reported recently were never consummated because the potential victim "read through" the QRM to realize that the deal was not straight. It doesn't matter if that rig offered was exactly what you wanted, especially if you sent the money and never received it anyway. Lastly, a timeworn corollary: if a deal appears to be too good to be true, it most likely is!

3. Use a protected means of payment. Many credit card suppliers protect their users in event of fraudulent transactions, stolen cards, etc. Postal and bank money orders provide the space on the document to specify the purpose for which the money order was drawn. Take advantage of these provisions, and never, never pay in cash or negotiables that are not traceable. I always include copies of the correspondence with my means of payment, as well as a simple "bill of sale" summarizing our understanding and the transaction. While this may seems to be frivolous paper, you may be comforted with the knowledge that such documentation supports the concept of a "contract" between you and the other party that is likely enforceable, should you be required to press matters in order to complete the transaction as agreed. The less-than-scrupulous will recognize your paper trail, and may be persuaded to fulfill their end of the bargain as agreed.

I have never been scammed in a deal yet, but I suppose it may happen someday. If it does, I will at least be satisfied that I did everything I could to avoid problems. If I were to pretend that my approach is foolproof, I'm sure that I will be soon surprised. That said, all of us can and should take certain steps to protect ourselves in any way we can. I'm hoping that this posting will encourage other hams to join in with responses that may help us all in this regard.

Thomas C. Steidel

WD5BCL

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KB0NLY on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Many fine points here, and i suggest all of them myself on a regular basis. Scams only exist because there is people that will fall for them! Education is the key to avoid falling into a trap.

73,

Scott, KB0NLY

 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N9AVY on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good comments. Beware of those using calls of SK's. We have to be on our toes at all times.

I just contributed to the widow of the unknown ham ...

 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KR4WM on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Only thing about using a credit card is that the guy
may not have a business to process your card through.
I have had good success with PayPal, and they offer
transaction insurance. Just don't go for their
"premier" deal, or they'll charge you 2.9% on just
about everything you do!

-KR4WM
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WV4I on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hmmm....some good points, but it's also important to screen potential buyers of your gear.
If the buyer asks what condx, cosmetically or functionally, the item advertised as "exc condx/works great" is in, you have at a minimum, a communication problem waiting to happen.
If the buyer wants detailed specs after you point out such specs are available on line, especially for a more pricey piece of gear, some conclusion(s) could probably also be drawn.
If you advertise "$xx USPS MO", yet you get questions about Paypal, credit cards, COD UPS (do they do that?), again, it makes you wonder. Perhaps this person is just too paranoid to make online transactions? Also, perhaps there are ways to be a scammer using these payment methods? Do they want the gear (or payment if you're the buyer) sent to a third party at a PO Box....very difficult to prosecute that one....and an ongoing scam.
I personally am turned off by the dealer wannabes, that offer ridiculously low prices for gear that is already priced to sell. If you frequent this site, QRZ, QTH, etc., you get to know who they are. A person that sells multiple high dollar rigs and amps per year, and/or has to have your gear by this weekend (read weekend's hamfest), etc., would fit this profile. Wish them luck.
If the buyer wants to debate the precise cosmetic condx of your gear, sight unseen, using say a "Collins Collector Guide" (?), wish them luck. It's like antiques, art, rugs, etc.,,,, at some point you just have to see the item, AND have the experience and knowledge to properly assess it's cosmetic condx. Again, a problem waiting to happen. Conversely, functionality is fairly straightforward, even with minimal amateur radio experience.
It is reasonable, and a very good idea, to ask the seller what the seller thinks of the item for sale, why it's for sale, are they original owner, any mods, what's included, how would it be shipped/packaged, etc.
Lastly, the reviews on this site provide a valuable source of user impressions, discounting the more superficial postings by persons that would not seem to understand how a given piece of gear is supposed to work.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K0BG on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You want to make sure the guy's an amateur after all. One particular knucklehead used to run advertisements in the Elmer's forum and used an expired call which was never his to start with. Caveat Emptor.

Alan, KØBG
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8FVJ on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It is amazing what a person will do for a dollar. Even some hams are irresponsible or dishonest. I will only buy under $300 items on the internet & seller must be a ham. I had difficulties with an 'eBay ham' in California. Once the person got my $250, that was their goal. Nothing else mattered to this ham beyond self-gain.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KR4WM on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I must admit- I'm one of the guys who prefer to use
the CCA/Drake grading scale. It's very objective, and
can pin down the condition of a radio pretty precisely
if applied objectively. It's pretty easy to answer
the challenge questions in the CCA grading scale to
come up with a condition prior to selling/buying a
radio, and if you apply the grading scale properly,
feelings don't get hurt and disappointments don't
happen. People who are afraid to use the CCA guidelines
worry me, it's almost as if they're hiding something!
If someone can provide me with an example of where the
CCA grading fails, I might change my mind, but so far,
it's proven itself to me. I admit that problems happen
when someone tries to pass off a radio in "very good"
condition for "excellent", which is a "subjectivity"
problem. The price difference in some radios between
very good and excellent can be substantial!

-KR4WM
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K3PZ on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I try to limit my online purchases to the $500.00 range. Spending much more than that when buying gear sight unseen and taking somebody elses word for the condition/functionality (which is totally subjective)is a disaster waiting to happen unless you have actually spoken to that person (a licensed ham) on the telephone and asked all of the pertinent questions (make a list)and have seen some good high resolution pictures of the gear that you are buying. Since I have taken this approach I have minumized my dissapointment factor and can weed out the BS'ers in about 2 minutes.

73's
Paul Zora
K3PZ
Myrtle Beach, SC
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K3IVB on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
As per above remark I agree on $500 limit because any more I personally buy it NIB. But I must say it seems to me hams in particular are a paranoid bunch, I mean even screening buyers :) If one must jump through all these hoops being scared to death of being burnt by an unscrupulous fellow ham then a simple suggestion would be: buy from AES, HRO, Texas Tower, Ham Station on and on you get the drift and spare us sellers and buyers the grief of dealing with you. This subject comes up time and time again and it's old! Getting out of bed every morning requires risks and worrying about taking a screwing from your fellow hams instead of enjoying the hobby is, well you figure it out.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The biggest scam going is the well known companies doing the same thing as the crooks on eBay by selling items that are not in the condition as advertised.
I recently purcahsed a radio over the phone from R & L Electronics based in Ohio. When I was told the the radio I wanted only had one left in stock, I said that if the radio was a demo or display model that I was not interested in making a purchase but the sales person assured me that it was not. Upon receiving the radio it was undeniably clear that the radio had been opened before and repacked and when I telephoned to complain the sales person did not deny it. If a box has been opened that means the radio could be a demo, display or return item. Not what I paid for. I paid the "new" price. Was told if I wanted money back I'd have to ship it to them at my cost. These type of merchants are worse than the dishonest individual sellers as they are hiding behind their store name while pulling the same scams as people selling out of their garage.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by LNXAUTHOR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
- funny you mentioned R&L, as i was just there two weeks ago... i met some of the fellows behind the counter but didn't get the impression that this was how the company did business...

- it would be interesting to see what would happen if you took the effort to file a BBB complaint or in small-claims court (the courthouse is less than 1 mile from R&L straight down the street)

- R&L did have quite a few used/demo gear on display (but then again so does HRO in the local Woodbridge, VA store)...

- check to see if your credit card offers 100-percent money-back assurance, and you could return the unit and get your shipping costs back... if you were told you were buying NIB, but got used, then the transaction is fraudulent, and R&L is in deep doo-doo...
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W9JCM on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good comments and ideas all should be taking into consideration. I have been whined at before by other hams for only selling my equipment to lisc hams. I go a step farther. HF amps only go to General and up lisc same with hf rigs. Hey its my gear I can sell it any way or to any one I want to. And make sure on the call. I got taken one time the guy used a legit call and name but turned out it wasnt even the guy. He was bootleging a call. The answer there is if the address the person wants you to send the gear and or cash doesnt match the address in the FCC database BE VERY VERY Weary. There is no excuse for not updating your information. I will never deal with out confirming the address matched the data. The big scam is oh send it to my work address. Ya right. Its just a matter of confirming. As far a payment ONLY use USPS money orders if they scam you its a federal crime then. Pay pal is good to but the seem to not give a crap about there custs much.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W3RAZ on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Yes but did the radio work? Personally, this is WHY I buy my radios locally or in person. NEVER over the internet. First off, if I buy from my local shop (Universal Radio) they make money. That means they will be around when I need to go get some coax or connectors or a new battery. Some hams do not have this option. If you do, buy locally. Even if this costs a bit more, it's not like you see huge swings between the vendors. If you do, then something is wrong with the one with the huge discount.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
LNXAUTHOR,

According to personal emails from local customers in their town and comments on other forums about R & L things like this happen frequently with them. One person that wrote me said that they just ignore the BBB as most of their sales are over the Internet and by phone. I had made about a half dozen purchases before with no problems but if you screw me one time, that's all it takes for me. Regardless of how well things went in the past. It was more important to get the extra $5 - $10 they made off me selling an open box item as new than it was for my return business. I was told this personally by them over the phone and was told they didn't care if I ever ordered from them again. They must only care about going after the first time buyer. My CC company said I could get all my purchase price with shipping back but not my return shipping so I figure as long as I have the radio in my possesion that they sold me fraudulently, I will always have a reason to warn other radio equipment buyers about their dishonest business practices.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W3RAZ on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I find this behavior among our local guys too...sometimes. Never had them misrepresent a radio like that though. I mean I walked in an knew what I wanted. I had cash in had, ready to buy. It took them 20 minutes to get a new radio after it took them a half an hour to check out my trade in. 50 minutes to get a new radio. Oh...actually an hour. Took me 10 minutes to get their attention in the first place. If your just going to the local shop to ogle, do me a favour and do it at home or when there's noone else there. If someone walks in and KNOWS what they want, then serve them...PLEASE! If your just looking, step out of the way and let the guy with money in hand get his business done.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4OOA on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Caveat Emptor

That says it all. Hams are a cross section of society. There is good and bad everywhere a ham license is no sign of a protected deal nor is the lack thereof. If I can't get my fat little fist on it and try it I am skeptical and probably won't buy it.

One thing I might add for possible sellers. Don't wait until probate to sell the gear. Have the exeuctor sell it in the name of the estate and provide the name of the executor, address, the lawyer's telephone number and the EIN (Emloyer Identification Number)of the corpus. It adds assurance to the buyer that you won't disappear into the night.

Also write a formal Contract for Sale for high priced items. This should specify any and all terms, agreements and waranties.

Small stuff - don't spend more than you can afford to lose.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have sold several ham radio items through Ebay in the past. With the exception of one item, everything else could only be described as "mint". The non operational item was clearly marked non-operational and the reason for being so. I HAVE NEVER NOR WILL I EVER give my call sign on the bid in progress. Only after the sale is complete do I devulge this info to the buyer. It is much to easy to locate the sellers name, address, phone number, by giving out the call sign and leaving yourself open to an onslaught of nuts. Something else that peaked my interest on here was mention of R&L. I have purchased a few items from them in the past with no problem. From now on though, I will give it second thought. Thanks to those who mentioned it.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I had made about a half dozen purchases from R & L myself in the past too. They were my only dealer I used for a while and I've even given them good feedback here on eHam. That was not important to them though when I complained about them selling me an opened box item as new against my verbal instructions not to. I was told they didn't care if I ever ordered from them again or not. From one of my posts I got a personal email from an individual who knows these people personally. He described things that go on there a lot worse than what happened to me.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N6AJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Lots of folks POO-POO using Ebay but I have been buying and selling there more than 4 years now. The key is the feed back system.. If you screw someone on ebay, you will get negative feedback. A couple of those and no one does business with you.

I have over 500 POs feedback and 3 negatives, these are from folks who bought stuff listed as not working, parts only, then complain when it doesn work. But you don't get a good feedback rating if you screw folks. Belive it or not it does work.

I have as much fun buying and selling gear as I do using it. TOday I just bought a nice Diawa tuner with cross needles swr meter, even though I already have a dentron 2 kw, 2 dentron 1 kw, 2 300 watt mfj tuners and thats just what I see sitting here. If I like this one better I will probably use it with my FT-847 and move one of the dentrons over to the kenwood 570. That will move the mfj over to the icom 730.

See what I mean, lots of toys, but the 570 and the icom 730 will probably go soon. I will use the cash to check out a TS-2000, my next large purchase, most likely.

I almost never advertise on Eham or QRZ as there is no way to determine the past record of the buyer/seller with out feed back..

just my Idea.. 73 tom N6AJR
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
THE FEEDBACK IS THE KEY. :)
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N2YZS on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Buying and selling online is a risky adventure, but sometimes is the only way of getting what you want. I occasionally buy, and sell here and on ebay. If I have a piece of equipment I want to sell, I usually try to sell it in the following order:
1. Locally
2. This site
3. ebay
I try to use the "Golden Rule" when selling. I know what I expect out of descriptions, and I try to describe equipment as I would like it described. If I am buying, I like to make contact with the seller and make sure that their description and my interpretation of their description is one in the same. If I am selling, I am always available for contact. I have been bitten once on ebay by a ham in Florida. "no problems, works fine" was the description. The unit arrived having a display problem and a power out problem. When I contacted them, the answer was "It's your problem. You bought it." I left Negative feedback (and they were livid that I would dare to do that!). 2 weeks later, I was emailed by another ham asking why I had left Negative feedback. Told him my story. Unfortunately for him, he bought an expensive amp which had "no problems, works fine". When he received it and found problems, he got the same reply as I did. As they used to say on Hill Street Blues: "Be careful out there!". Luckily, most of us Hams are honest, upright people, and will take care of problems. There is always the exception though.... Vern N2YZS
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I sold an HT on the QTH classifieds one time for $140 to an individual. I received no less than 20 emails (average 5 a day) prior to and during the shipping process from the buyer with questions about the radio and when was he going to get it (even though I emailed the tracking info twice). After he received it I got no less than 10 emails with questions how to use it (guess he thought free lifetime support came with it). For a high cost HF rig I could justify the annoyance a little, but for a $140 HT?
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KB2SSA on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I think E-Ham needs to do more. I posted an item for sale and no less than 5 minutes later recieved an email from sombody that spoke terrible english. I really think a dog could speak better than this guy. He says he is ok with the price without asking any questions and say to email back if I am ok with his offer. The email is something like hdj3jdh@somewhere.com. I think the scams are orgainzed and I think they have software running monitoring eham and generating the bogus emails for items.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 15, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds like the current scam going around these days. A buyer will tell you he/she wants to buy your equipment but they live overseas and they'll pay $200 above your asking price plus they'll send an extra $100 for premium (faster) shipping if you'll ship it to them. They will then send you a money order for the equipment plus the extra $200 and the premium shipping costs right away. After you pay for the overseas shipping and send the package off, two weeks later your bank comes after you because the money order was a fake. You've lost your equipment and the extra money you shelled out. Sounds silly but it's working, like the Nigerian doctor scam. Simple but effective.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K7IHC on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have gotten some very good deals through eBay. 4 H/Ts, 1 mobile, Astron 35 power supply, Heliax, and several other radio accessories. Checking out the feedback on the seller is a must. Knowing your prices is a priority, too. I see a lot of sellers asking 10 to 20% more for a radio than a new one from HRO or AES. You just gotta chuckle and pass on those.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KD7KGX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
For a scam to work, there have to be two ingredients... a hustler and a greedy mark. The hustler is counting on the fact that the mark is so greedy that he won't look closely at the scam. And so, he gets taken.

If a deal seems too good to be true, then it probably is. My experience with ham gear has been that some stuff is generally overstated as to condition. If I can't see a high-res photo of the stuff I won't buy it. I won't buy ham gear off of a non-ham (how'd he get it?).

I have bought lots of stuff from eBay and have been satisfied with my purchases. I use an auction sniping tool (www.auctionstealer.com), and set the max bid at the highest I'm willing to pay... and I do a little research to see what these items have gone for in the past and bid towards the low end (so if I want to sell the item I can and not lose money).

I have also bought stuff from other hams thru this site and thru mailing lists (Ten-Tec). Given that I email the person and confirm exactly what it is I'm buying and get their agreement for a refund less shipping if I return it in 3 days for whatever reason, I'll buy... and I have had no problems. If someone won't guarantee their merchandise, don't buy it... they know something you don't (yet!).
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8EMR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hams can also be quite picky as has been noted here.
Tell, What is the differance between a new radio, a new radio used for demo, and a returned radio. If they all look the same, operate the same? Now if the radio is all scratched up thats one thing but to actually have a finger print on it, get real its a radio no a fine work of art. To many hams get "ANAL" about their radio's.

How many hams buy new cars with zero miles on it? How many new cars have never had a driver it in. How many cars are demo'ed before you get it. Many thousands of dollars purchase and you dont bitch and moan about a "demo" car, but a $150 handheld with a finger print and your up at arms.

Come on get a grip, Its just a radio.


Now if the radio shows up broken, Looking like its been through the wrigger then complain away!!!

 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8EHA on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR, your credability is on thin ice with me. I've done business with R&L Electronics for over 23 years, back when Rita and Larry where starting the business out of their garage. I personnaly know the kind of people they are, and I don't take kindly to whiners that don't understand that MANY customers ask to open and INSPECT a radio that they are considering puchasing. I've seen the counter in their shop COVERED with opened boxes for a customer to inspect. It's called SERVICE. I do it myself. Is it a SEALED box then? NO. Is it a USED radio? NO. Is it all there and still working? YES. Is everybody out to GET YOU, KG4YJR? Apparently. If you think an OPENED BOX is a scam, then buddy you've NEVER BEEN scammed! Take your paranoia and righteous indignation and GO to your local dealer and SEE what you are getting and leave everyone else alone. You're clearly just too petty to do business with otherwise.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N0NYA on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
now N8EHA thats all real nice and cute, but most certainly does not justify them telling him they dont care if he ever shops there again...

hmm in fact, the way you just attacked him give his story MORE credibility in my eyes.

ironic isnt it?
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8EHA on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
N0NYA, I fail to see your irony. The complaint was petty, tiresome and unsupportable. The business world, even the amateur radio business, is full of uncontrollable outcomes and myriad levels satisfaction and dissatifaction. While sending someone an unsealed box may be unsatisfactory to someone, it DOES NOT constitute fraud and a scam, and does not deserve the repeated implication that somehow it is. I suspect Joe Millionaire, that if you were going to have to have your reputation smeared, that you would at least want it to be over an issue that MATTERED. Telling a whiner like it is, even in very direct terms, DOESN'T give HIM credibility.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
To Robert N8EHA. Robert, I think it is very commendable the way you stand up for R&L. However you do come over rather harsh in your defense of them. It is good to see such trust in your fellow man, unfortunetly I cannot say the same for myself. Anytime I order something "new" I am the one who wants to break the seal on that box. If I don't, I have no idea where it has been or what has been done to it from the time it left the factory. To say the gear has been removed from the carton to show a prospective customer what he would be purchasing is BS. Thats what shelves and "demos" are for, not new (boxed) equipment. By the way, whenever I have purhased "open box" equipment of any nature it always has come with at least a 10% (if not more) discount. This is understood by almost every retailer I know of. Your analogy regarding a car is off the wall. You are comparing apples to oranges. Whenever I purchase a new auto and ask to test drive it, the sales person goes along for the drive. Does R&L, or any other retailer go home with the buyer to make sure that if there is a return nothing has been tampered with, or mistreated for the 7 to 14 days (or whatever) the return policy states?
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2WIK on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good article!

I'll add my own personal favorite way of avoiding scams:

Don't buy anything sight-unseen. Use the 'net to find a local deal, and drive over to look at and try out the gear, then offer a discount for immediate payment in cash.

Works great. It's hard to get taken when you have the tested gear under your arm...

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
N8EHA just mind your own damn business. If you don't like my posts don't read them. You're not priviledged enough to read them anyway. Plus you haven't read the personal emails I've gotten from several of their local customers that told me that mine was not and isolated case.

73 To everyone except that bitter little man N8EHA
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8EHA on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR, by posting your opinions and very publicly battering my friends ungraceously and unfairly, YOU made it my business. If YOU are going to make bitter accusations against people over a public forum, YOU are going to have to expect that you will offend their friends and YOU are going to get unpleasent replies. I'll tell you again; you're accusations were petty, tiresome, and unsupportable. You don't know them personally, I DO. If you don't want counter-replies to your accusations and arguments, DON'T POST THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
N8EHA I sure hope they give you a free calender or pen for your support. I had actually gotten tired of this subject myself and figured I'd made my point and would move on. But if you’d like we can keep this going. I can print some quotes from other forums about them or a quote from a disabled individual that emailed me who was mistreated in their store and took them to court. Wonderful people. The sad thing is a couple of months ago I would have agreed with you. They were the only dealer I used for a while.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N8EHA on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WB2DEX
Thank you for your kind remarks. Yes, I did jump on him pretty hard. It was uncivilized and out of character for me. In my defense, I find it very difficult to stay silent while my friends are publicly lambasted behind their backs. If I appeared to attack him personally, I apologize, that was not my intention. My problem is with the actions not the person. Coincidently, I have reread my posts several times, and I'm still trying to find the "car analogy". Did I use the word "car" somewhere?
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K3YD on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
To: KR4WM
(Apologies to everybody else, this is an off-line comment but KR4WM's e-mail address is not available on e-ham.)
You mention "CCA/Drake" grading. I did a Google search and found nothing on CCA/Drake. Can you give me a clue what you're talking about and where I can find more information about it?
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Robert N8EHA- My, this is really turning into a popular posting. Sorry Robert, I thought the "car" analogy was yours. Someone else must have mentioned it if not you. Please forgive me.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The car comments could have been mine also. I was in the car sales business years ago. We sold a car one time that had been wrecked with a fatality involved in it. Fixed it up, new paint, blood stains all cleaned up. But as long as it runs good and we’re all nice people then it was ok right?

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Another good reason for never buying a used car. :)
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
WB2DEX
But it ran good, was nice and shiny and had very low mileage. Only had one owner too (may they rest in peace). :o)
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K3IVB on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This entire article has degenerated to blasting business and apologizes for heated misunderstandings. Anyone who tries to make a go at it selling amateur equipment with a legitimate business should have a gold medallion hung on their chest for putting up with all the whining, crying, sniffling, impossible to please and very very cheap amateur community. The same people crying about a couple hundred bucks for a flawless piece of equipment think nothing of paying over 30 percent of their income on taxes and drive a big SUV or pick up truck that gets 12 miles to the gallon. Cynicism is so bad that if someone wants to sell a piece of equipment they must submit proof for the world to see: their social security number, date of birth, how long they lived at current address, all the same stuff you go through buying a home before the amateur community will accept them as a normal everyday honest person and not a crook. This entire article is full of negative aspects and nothing positive. Like the one sane post states so wisely, the amateur community is nothing more or less then a cross cut of the society we live in and an FCC license does nothing to make one morally perfect. This article should be named Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
think nothing of paying over 30 percent of their income on taxes and drive a big SUV or pick up truck that gets 12 miles to the gallon...
Uhhh, excuse me Curt. I think plenty about the taxes I pay, and I am not to happy about them. As far as a SUV, well the one I go the XYL did have a factory seal on it. It would also appear that if the topic had veered off course, you yourself have added to it. Lets face it, the bands are in pretty poor condition, and thunderstorms abound, at least in my part of the woods. And eHam makes for a nice diversion in any event. Not that any diversion is required for this site as IMO it is always good. I happened to glance at your bio listed somewhere else. I for one appreciate what you do with your time on the CW bands to help out others. Very commendable to say the least.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W9SZ on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I must be relatively lucky. I've bought lots of things from various internet discussion group offers, eBay, eham, etc. Everything I got was at least what I expected, often better. I only got burned once. Someone offered a high-power HV transformer and I sent him the $. Then it never arrived and he offered various excuses for why I hadn't gotten it. I never did receive it or my money back.

Ebay is a great place to get really hard-to-find items. I've purchased many microwave MESFET's there which I don't think I would have ever found anywhere else. But I always investigate the ratings before bidding on something.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K5MDM on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Also, get a phone number listed in thier name and check it!! You can go to www.anywho.com and do a lot with phone numbers and address's. If a person doesnt have a phone in thier name or family name, better look a lot closer. AND, you can use a credit card and demand you money back on a no show...(thats why I dont take any more, you can also just "whine" and get your money back for no reason. IT HAPPENS") Check and re-check all info before you go, or ask on the rec.radio groups...usually you can get info there...73 Murray
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K5MDM on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
So you would rather buy from a stranger who MIGHT be scamming you than a respected re seller who has fun trading rigs and stands behind them. I take issue!!!
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K5MDM on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
And you think that reflect on QTH>? whoooaaaa!!
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by K5MDM on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Curt, you are one of the good guys, Ill trade with you anyway, any day!! Course youll have to find me on QTH...EHam wont have me!!! hihi Murray
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W8OB on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I got to agree R&L are some pretty good people to deal with. Anytime you can get someone in sales to honestly answer your questions and tell it like it is is will get my business. I know of several dealers who make it a point to open and inspect the contents of the box before shipping to make sure its all there, in fact a couple of them will check out the unit to make sure it works. Yes dealers deserve a gold medal for the crap they have to put up with, I know I would not last very long as a dealer as the first thing that would happen to whiners and cut-throats would be to throw them out on their ear. The double edged sword bitch cuz the box is opened or bitch because the rig don't work or is missing parts. Bitch because you can get it for $5 less out of state and no sale tax ( By the way out of state purchases in Michigan are subject to "use tax").
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WW6J on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hi All,

Thought that I would add my 2-bits. I have purchased a few things from R&L and always have gotten what I have ordered. I even got a used TS 440 from them once that was saidto be in questionable working order. A bit of cleaning and adjusting and I had a pretty good rig.

With regard to eBay, I have replaced almost all of a station that I lost a few years ago without dissapointment. I have sold a few things as well I think that "buyer beware" is a good policy as well as not spending more than you can afford lose if you are scammed. Never happened to me yet, but perhaps my expectations are more realistic than some.

I personally really enjoy eBay as it is like a flea market everyday. Sometimes saddened/amazed at some buyers paying more than a new price for items. Do your research or suffer the consequences.

There you have my 2-bits worth (inflation from 2 cents you know!)

73

Jeff
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I know of several dealers who make it a point to open and inspect the contents of the box before shipping to make sure its all there, in fact a couple of them will check out the unit to make sure it works....
To: W8OB Ken:
Good for you Ken!!! Don't make no sense believing that the rig you buy (or anything else for that matter)you get from a manufacturer should work. Yep, everything should be checked out by the retailer first (even toothbrushes). Matter of fact, they should send their workers, relatives, neighbors and friends home with whatever you bought to check it out for a few weeks. Hey, maybe several months. You can never be sure! ROTFLMAO. :)
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WA2JJH on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent and timely artical. I may not be a psycologist, but I can play one on TV.(HI HI)
Actually I do have 3 years of psycology under my belt.

Best thing I ever learned was about sociopathic psyc.
True fact...1 out of 10 people have sociopathic traits.

Like the guy that says...The rig worked the last time I used it!

Just because someone is a Ham is no absolute, you will not be ripped off.

Look at people like Martha Stewart. Sociopaths do not feel guilt or shame the way we know it. They will rationalise what they are doing.

Rememeber TRIGGER ELECTRONICS? "Where the Ham is King"

There is an infamous east coast ham, who ripped off so many friends, he is considered radiotrash at every hamfest.

Some tactics they use.

1. let you in on a few good deals. Then set you up for the big rip-off. Easy to fall for. He established a good track record with you. Then the big sting!

2.Anyone who says I am too honest to do that....RUN!
3.They will drop names of celebs and poltico's they have had contact with.

4.Ask a blunt question, if they touch thier face while responding, forget about it!

5.Brag of big connections.
6.They are very charming, however they will always point at your faults.
7.Never give them any money up front.
8.If you left something of yours with them, after a certain amount of time, they will claim financial hardship. As far as they are concerned, they now own it.

9.With ebay look very carefully at any negative feedback
10.IF they only have a few items they have sold, and their ebay rating is not above 95%....Beware.

Scam artist are very good at what they do. If you have a hunch they are one, do not try a battle of wits....you will lose!

Scammers are in all walks of life, DR's,Clergy,lawyers,
you name it!

The one way I did get most of my money back from scammer, was to deal with his wife. A scammer hates it when you get their family and business associates involved.

A tactic a scammer will use will be to make a deal with you. If the low life see's you are very persistant
, he might give you something back. It is better then nothing! However keep the high pressure up. Do not let your guard down. Get it in writting. Still let it be known you know what he is.

They have no shame or remorse, so do not waste your time with guilt trips. They respond to pressure,and inconvenience. The more you bug them, the less time they have to scam someone else. That is scammer onmomics 101.

Some under pressure will elude to Police friends and/or unsavory people. This is always Bull.

An excellent book on such behavior is "With out Conscience" by DR HARE.

Many of these scammers go unpunished. The law is too busy with Violent full blown sociopaths/Psycopaths.

One hypothosis going around is this...Both the violent psycopath and the gift of gab mild mannered borderline sociopath seem to have similar synaptic abnormalities in the brain.

One in ten people have no problem scamming.
Remember that on EBAY or a Hamfest.


 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KF6VCI on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sadly, even genuine licenced hams may be crooks. Just don't send that rig upon the v e r b a l assurance that a MO is "in the post". Or hand over the goods first and then h o p e the $ 2,300 will be paid as assured. A friend asked the guy and was told, the gear was in Romania, he was "only the middleman". Yeah, right. And I don't even have proof of having handed over the content of a shack when a house was sold. ** One guy claimed the new stuff was stolen out of his car and when I still demanded payment, he claimed to have converted back to CBing. - I NEVER HAD ANYTHING IN WRITING. So when you sell a rig, why not make the buyer (without cash or a check) sign a simple contract? - "Under penalty of perjury" has no meaning, unless notarized. What's $ 10 in a 4-digit deal? ** Personally, I'm through with buying used except from QRPers with a reputation. GL es 73, Chris kf6vci
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KR4WM on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry about my e-mail address not being available- I thought it was! It's
in my profile on QRZ.COM. And it may be in my profile on this website
as well, I'll have to go look.

The CCA grading scale is at: http://www.collinsradio.org

Warm regards to all, -Web Williams in Myrtle Beach, SC
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KF6VCI
As I mentioned before, a lot of these so-called middle men offer way above the individual's asking price and some people's greed kicks in before their common sense. Scammers these days are getting pretty good at printing fake checks and money orders that look 100% genuine and even fool the banks, but only for a week or two after the gear is gone.
73
Dave, KG4YJR
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KC8JZO on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Whenever I order soemthing online, I send payment via United States Postal Service money order. If someone is fradulent in the transaction, then I have a paper trail back to the Post Office! I haven't had a problem yet, but if I do . . . then I'll see what the Postal Service can do. Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of scammers.

At a hamfest a couple of years ago, a friend of mine got screwed over on a RELM mobile. The seller said that it was a UHF model. In reality, it turned out to be a VHF that didn't power up. So it's not only online scammers that we have to worry about. People will lie, straight to your face. Just be careful, and use your better judgement.

John G.
KC8JZO
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N0TONE on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
W9CJM, good on confirming who you're dealing with.

But your requirement that the shipping address match the "listed" address could pose problems. I, like many other active hams, have my station location listed by the FCC, however I do not receive mail or shipments at that location. This can be true for folks who live in the country (many big time DXers). In my case, I'm out of the country so often that I use a commercial mail box so that the one at the end of my driveway never ends up stuffed - an invitation for theft.

I do ham radio rig repair, and I'd bet 25% of the hams I return gear to ask for it to be shipped elsewhere than their listed addresses - like work, frequently.

AM
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N0TONE on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR,

R&L continues that practice because nobody returns the rigs.

Here's what I'd do.

1) Tell the credit card company to not pay the bill. Your reasoning is "I offered $XXX for a brand new radio. I received a demo radio. Therefore, they violated our agreement."

2) After the credit card company has indicated the charges have been reversed, contact R&L. Tell them why. Say something like, "You and I came to an agreement on the phone that I would purchase a brand new, unopened radio for $XXX. You violated our agreement and knowingly sent me a demo rig, and you acknowledged that you did. You have two choices. I am willing to buy this demo rig, but at a 25% discount. If you agree to these new terms, I will write you a check for that amount. If you do not agree to the terms, then provide me with your Fedex account number, and I will ship the radio back to you on your account."

Don't just let them do this - you already know that no matter how much you gripe, they won't change the policy. Until they lose a sale, they'll keep it up.

R&L and MFJ have the same philosophy as a used car dealer. Whatever it takes, make a sale the first time the guy contacts you because there is no customer loyalty for dealers - they won't be back as long as someone else offers a better deal. And they are right.

For my part, I actually prefer a demo rig - it's been proven to work!

AM
 
N0EHA and credibility  
by N0TONE on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Look, if a rig is "open box", then you tell the customer. I've purchased "open box" before - full price even. The dealer just tells you like it is, "This is a brand new rig, the box was opened for inspection. No discount because it's not a demo." They failed to tell him even that.

It's called "full and honest disclosure" and the Federal Trade Commision DOES recognize a legal distinction between "mint" (which means exactly as shipped by the factory, having never been touched at all since shipment from the factory) and "open box". The FTC acknowledges that functionally there is never a difference in performance, but to a collector there can be a difference in value. Particularly in old China, etc, it can be huge. You've seen the "unbuilt Heathkits" on eBay. If the box still has the original Heath staples, it's worth a LOT more.

AM
 
RE: N0EHA and credibility  
by KG4YJR on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
N0TONE, I gave up trying to explain to the protestors that it's my money too. When they earn my money for me then I'll listen to their advice. Also, I'd like for them and that includes R & L to prove that the radio was never used. Not "say" it wasn't used prove it. The "thay'r mah friends so yew hav' to believe wot' day say" isn't proof. I got a good letter from an individual about another "honest" dealer. He said bought a radio for his son at a local ham radio dealer, it showed clear signs of being opened and had all the local repeaters programmed in it. He took it back to the store and their excuse was "we program all the radios we sell locally with the repeater frequencies". He requested to see another "local" radio for sale but guess what? There just didn't happen to be any left in the store at that time. Pretty pathetic huh?
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WA2JJH on June 16, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Many of your less then honest Ham radio dealers do sell repacks as standard operating proceedure.

Repacks are when someone will buy the radio new, decide he does not like it, and return it.

The dealer will then repack the rig and sell it as new. When caught, they will give you the story of how little mark up they make on the radio. They will sometimes claim that the rig maker gave them a deal on repacks and they are passing the deal down to you.
They will whine, hey you got the radio cheaper then anywhere else! Whats is YOUR problem! It is never their problem. You are the one that is screwed up in thier mind.

Like I said before 1 out of 10 people got no problem being dishonest. They have the same emotional discomfort about how dishonest they are, as to you telling the deli guy you want extra mustard on your Ham sandwich.

Hard to beleive so many peoples brains are wired that way....But it is a scientific fact.
The left side of the brain has weirnikies area and brockas area. These are responsible for hearing and speech.
They have found with sociopaths, the communication makes a loop to the right side of the brain.
Cognitive testing proves this. People that talk with subtle contridictions have this wiring.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KA9FOX on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I started the QTH.com Free Ham Radio Classifieds back in 1997, and after 6 years and a couple hundred thousand ads later, I can assure you I have heard my share of stories regarding miscommunications, deals gone bad and actual fraudulent scams. That said, I am certainly no expert on the subject.

I 100% agree with only dealing with licensed hams... the vast majority of e-mails I get about bad deals are when the seller is not a ham. I also agree with matching up the shipping address to the FCC address. Sure, some people have shipping & station locations that don't match. Then proceed accordingly (i.e. high risk -- watch out!)

I hope Bill & crew don't mind the plug, but I've also started a FEEDBACK FORUM to give hams a place to permanently leave positive or negative feedback about their transactions (only the FACTS). This forum is located at http://chat.qth.com. There are also forums there for hams to discuss Safe Trading, Shipping & Packing, Stolen Equipment, What's it Worth, etc.

73 - Scott KA9FOX
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AB7JK on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You can't cheat an honest man - WC Fields
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WB2DEX on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
To: NOTONE-
R&L continues that practice because nobody returns the rigs.

Here's what I'd do.

1) Tell the credit card company to not pay the bill. Your reasoning is "I offered $XXX for a brand new radio. I received a demo radio. Therefore, they violated our agreement."

2) After the credit card company has indicated the charges have been reversed, contact R&L. Tell them why......
THAT AIN'T THE WAY IT WORKS. 1st you call the credit card co. Then they mail you a form to fill out as to why you do want to pay. Then they "listen" to what the other guy has to say. THEY JUST DON'T REVERSE CHARGES ON YOUR SAY SO. Here's the problem with the original transaction from what I remember without having to reread the thread. The goods were sent as "factory sealed". It was not. R&L did say they would take it back, but not pay the return postage. A very poor business practice, but their call nonetheless. They would simply state this to the credit card co. End of case..You lose. The way this should have been handled would have been to pack it up, ship it back ($7-8 UPS) and mark it off as a bad experience and a company not to be dealt with again.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KE4ZHN on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Avoid all the doubt, paranoia, and risk. Buy from HRO, AES, or any known established buisness that has to warranty the gear! Or, buy from personal friends who are hams. Too many times you hear of rip off artists using Ebay and other ways to shaft buyers. Why throw away your money? Buy from a reputable source, people just arent as trustworthy as they used to be. Too many con artists and scammers out there to send several hundred bucks to a total stranger. Even buying hamfest junk is a risk nowadays because the sellers lie and misrepresent the gear as being pristine, and when you get it home it doesnt live up to the sellers claims. Many who deal on ebay and dont get taken are just plain lucky. Its simply too easy for someone to take a picture of a perfect immaculate piece of gear and then upon selling it, send a pile of junk in the place of the misrepresented rig. Then how do you recover your money? You dont! You wind up eating it. Thanks, but no thanks, Id rather deal with a buisness that at least I can expect to back up what they sell. At least if they try to shaft me, I could seek legal means to recover my losses. Dealing with an anonymous person several hundred miles away is just begging for trouble.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4PTZ on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR and N8EHA, it seems as if y'all have been mudslinging pretty hard at this argument, but I have noticed that neither one of y'all has had the balls enough to back up any of this stuff (like those e-mails you say that you received from R & L) so how are any of us to know which one of y'all is tellin' the truth and which one is talkin' out your butt?
Personally, I agree with the folks who say only buy stuff from reputable dealers. So far, I have had successful deals with AES, HRO, Radioworld (in Toronto), and Universal-Radio. I have yet to get scammed/screwed/whatevertheheckyawannacallit thankfully.
73,
Kenny Lewis, Jr.
KG4PTZ
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4PTZ - You do have a valid point. I have all the proof I need and that's a used radio that I paid full price for. They used a bread like twist-tie and baggy to wrap up one of the items in the box. But if you and others keep insisting, I'll look up all the information that the Ohio Better Business Bureau has about them and search the public records data base up there to see how many judgements they have against them. I'll post all the information on a website and give out the link. Would this be acceptable to you?

I was ready to drop this subject but since somebody drags it up again everyday getting me pissed again...

Here's somebody else's account that was posted publicly, they sold him an item with the power cord cut off of it. Lied about the condition of it before he bought it and wouldn't give him a refund. Please read on:
------------------------------------------------------
As posted on QTH.com

I personally will never spend another dime with R&L. Not only wil they shaft you on demo equipment, they also will sell broken/defective equipment and lie about it's condition. A few years back I bought a used frequency display for a Yaesu FT101 and the female salesperson assured me that it looked very good and had been checked over by their technican and was in proper working order. When I received the display it appeared that it had been dragged down a rough road behind a truck and it was obvious that it couldn't possibly have been checked and be in working condition as the connecting cable had the connecting plug cut off it.
When I called them I was informed that the salesperson I had talked to no longer worked there and they couldn't be responsible for what she may or may not have told me, therefore no return/no refund.
Fortunately my credit card company saw things in a different light and the display unit was returned w/shipping cod but never again will I consider buying anything from them.

KB5PN
------------------------------------------------------

I know, you probably still think we're being unreasonable.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W9IND on June 17, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting posts for the most part, but I can't agree that people who want items delivered to their workplaces are acting suspiciously. In my case, I used to have packages delivered to my office because that was safer than having them sit outside on my porch for hours when I worked late. Sure, you should always check people out thoroughly, but I don't see office delivery as an automatic red flag.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KE4IZA on June 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

It is pure greed which keeps the scammers in business. People thinking they can get something for nothing. When $$$ talks, common sense walks!
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WS4V on June 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I've got to make a quick comment on office delivery, too.
I find it more convenience to have items shipped at work since I'm here a good part of the day.
Plus, it keeps UPS from dropping off packages in daylight.
I especially like when they think that a piece of plastic covering a box out in the open will suffice with an expected rainstorm.
It also makes work a little more bearable knowing you're expecting a package.
Lastly, it's easy to slip that new rig into the hamshack past the wife!
From work it goes to the car. From the car to the garage and from the garage into the basement that adjoins the garage where the hamshack is. What could be better?
Of course, she's caught on and could care less but it was a nice covert op while it lasted! :)
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AD6WL on June 18, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have delt with RandL randl.com on many occasions and have had nothing but great results with them. They usually have the best prices and very fast service. I have used AES and HRO also with good results. So, if you deal with a reputable dealer like RandL.com then you shouldn't have any problems. I can't say the same for eBay.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KA5YJJ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have bought several things on E-Bay and every one was a good buy. I even got a IC-820 for $365 from a guy in Hong Kong, but the key was that he had over 600 positive feedbacks and no negative. I never buy from a new seller.
One time I was a losing bidder on a SB-220 amp. The next day I got an e-mail from a guy who claimed he was about to list his dead dad's equipment on E-Bay and he happened to have a nice SB-220 to sell if I still wanted one. He e-mailed me some pictures of a nice looking amp, but he made the mistake of giving his poor old dead dad's call. When I looked up the call it had not been even issued before. I just politely declined and I never saw that listing on E-Bay.
Another good scam that I have had someone try to pull is payment intercept. Immediately after an auction that I won, I got an e-mail congradulating me and asking me to send my money order to their address. Their name, address, e-mail didn't match anything of the sellers. I e-mailed the seller and asked him to confirm some details, which he did, and I realized what was happening. I reported all the details to E-Bay and they said they would look into it. (Yea right!)
I think on line auctions and classifieds provide a very valuable service to people like me who live in a very rural area and don't have a Ham store within 200 miles. But every day I just look at the bottom of each page on E-Bay where it says "caveat emptor". That says it all!!!!
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4PTZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR, your last post is quite acceptable indeed. I thank you very much for providing this information and settling that issue. While it is not good that this company didn't do as they said they would, it is good that you brought forth this issue to let the rest of the ham radio community know about this.
73,
Kenny Lewis, Jr.
KG4PTZ
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KG4YJR on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you Kenny. I brought this up on one of our local nets the other night. People have heard me mention good things about them before and were very suprised to here this. To their credit they are NOW trying to make amends but after telling me to get lost and tough luck two weeks ago...well to me that's an even bigger insult. I sent a lengthy written letter to Niki detailing the whole account. One thing I told her and I would like others to think about too. I had made numerous purchases with them before, sent them complimentary and thank you emails plus posted good feedback here on eHam. I had also bookmarked other items for purchase from them at a later date. So why would it make any sense to single out one purchase, complain and make a big deal out of it? Especially when I had future purchases planned. It wouldn't make sense would it? The main proof to myself besides the obvious signs of re-packing the items was the person's response saying "yeah, we did unpack it, so what". As others stated before, store owners don't unpack washers,refridgerators or jig-saw puzzles just to see if everything works and if all the pieces are there.

73
Dave
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KC0QBV on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"I recently purcahsed a radio over the phone from R & L Electronics based in Ohio. When I was told the the radio I wanted only had one left in stock, I said that if the radio was a demo or display model that I was not interested in making a purchase but the sales person assured me that it was not."

Depending upon how recent this transaction occured, I would dispute the charge with your credit card company (assuming you paid by cc). If the cc company takes your side, I suspect R&L might be willing to pay for return shipment if the other option is simply to allow you to keep the radio once the ccc has charged the purchase back.

derek ward
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by WD5BCL on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Wow! When I wrote this article, I thought I saw an opportunity to share my limited understanding, and solicit other sage advice. I had no idea that so many would have so much to say.

While the vast majority of comments are constructive and helpful, I'm disappointed by the few responses that were belligerent, distasteful or downright nasty.

I guess they only prove the point that most--though certainly not all--fellow hams are considerate, honest folks.

Thanks for the opportunity to write an article. I just might write more...
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AG4ZD on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
What a refreshing change to this string of posts.
You wrote about yout personal experience along this
line. You weree factual, brief and insightful.
As a newcomer to 'Hammin' I appreciate all those
who enlightened me on their attitudes, both good
and bad.
I read through this string for info on the "gotchas'
that exist, so I would be forewarned.
I could have done with more facts and less attitude.
:-) George
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AG4ZD on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Reply was to KA5JYY. I'm new at this. Thanks, George.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AG4ZD on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Actually KA5YJJ!!!!! G.
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AD6WL on June 23, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
If you are interested in a reputable company try the link below to find out what others think of this company.

http://www.eham.net/forums/CompanyReviews/543
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by N2MG on June 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KA9FOX:

Scott, you are welcome to post here ANYTIME, OM!

73 Mike N2MG
webmaster
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AE4TR on June 26, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hello All!!! Now I'm really confused, after reading all the comments in this article, I find myself in a tizzy. Should I buy from EBAY -- Yes and No. Should I buy from EHAM -- Yes and No. Should I buy from another HAM -- Yes and No. Should I trust anyone -- Yes and No. Does open box equiptment work -- Yes and No. Should I pay Cash -- Yes and No. Should I Pay with Money Order -- Yes and No. Do I really want to buy what I'm bidding on -- Yes and No. Do I really want to be a Ham -- Yes and No. Do I trust R&L -- Yes and No. Should I trust any dealer -- Yes and No. The list goes on and on. This article could go on and on forever.... when y'all get it all settled, I'll come back and read the results. I hope I live that long......... 73's and as the people at Mcdonalds say "Have a good day".. which brings up another subject, Should I eat at Mcdonalds -- Yes and No, should I eat at Windys -- Yes and No. Should I even eat Hamburgers -- Y..#!@&^^*)(^^%+|= (:-0) HE,HAW!!!
 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by KC8RBR on June 26, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KC8RBR:
KB2DEX IS RIGHT IN MY MIND. I AM A NEW HAM,(2 YRS OR SO). THE STUFF I SEE HERE IS SOMEWHAT DISHEARTING. I THOUGHT THIS HOBBY WAS FOR THE PROMOTAION OF HAM RADIO, HELPING OTHERS AND ALL ROUND GENERAL CLEAN COMMUNITIONS,ETC. N8EHA THE ONLY TIME I LOOKED AT A PRODUCT TO BUY, RADIO TV ETC. WAS TO SEE IF IT WAS ALL THERE THEN I AUCTUALY PAYED FOR IT AND TOOK IT HOME. YOU DON'T JUST SIT AT A COUNTER SOME WHERE AND OPEN TONS OF BOXES TO SEE IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT. IT,S JUST A NO BRAINER, AND IF THAT WERE STILL TURE THE SALES PERSON SHOULD HAVE CLEANED & RESEALED IN PLASTIC AND SET IT BACK ON THE SHELF. >>FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS. DE:KC8RBR.
 
Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by W3DCG on June 26, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I absolutely agree with the feedback on eBay being the primary form of insurance. It's difficult to fake those. I'm no power buyer or seller, but every eBay purchase I've made has been at least fair, or I've been pleasantly surprised and received better than expected.

I found an excellent deal on my now favorite paddle- from a person who OUTSIDE of eBay I've heard is having difficulty in his business affairs, much negative rumor...

This same person trading at the eBay supercenter, however, was excellent. His communication response, candid answers to my inquiries, packaging, and expediency made for a marvelous transaction experience, from beginning to end.

If you have a mail-order business, and it starts to slip, for whatever reason, personal/family/financial strains, etc, one might start again under a different name. It's recoverable in time. However, on eBay, there is a running cumulative total of every transaction every made. A bad eBay reputation is difficult to restore.

This can be said also, about eHam Reviews, particularly if the product is Service. I would imagine, that the potential for negative feedback in eHam Reviews would influence Service providers to at the very least, communicate. Make an honest attempt.

I ask questions before bidding- if the identity of the seller is not readily apparent, I'll simply ask them via eBay e-mail, who they are, what is their callsign.

Obviously one must go by intuition, with regard to the question everyone wants to ask, "Why are you selling?"

Ultimately, the FEEDBACK is your best insurance.

I scrutinize Comments in the Feedback section, paying particular attention to negative experiences and the response to the permanent posting. Confidence is instilled when many feedbacks indicate "...arrived safely, professionally PACKED."

Obviously, with Out of Warranty used gear, shipping may very well be the scapegoat for malfunctions the seller knew existed. Passive dishonesty. So packing is extremely important.

The largest transaction I have made on eBay was over half sold, when I heard "Original Carton, packing, Triple-Boxed, UPS ground shipping included." Within 2 hours I "Bought It Now."

 
RE: Scamming at the Speed of Light  
by AE4TR on July 6, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I absolutely agree with the feedback on eBay being the primary form of insurance. It's difficult to fake those.


Not as difficult as you might imagine. If you have about a dozen "good" friends. They could write you up some good feedback articles, and submit them. Of course you might get a bad one once in a while, but the good ones if written right would outweigh the bad.
Also I see a lot of running up the bid and then leaving you with a higher price than you wanted to pay.
Friends again, working for you. There are a lot of crooks in this world looking to take advantage of the unknowing.
 
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Related News & Articles
'This Car Was Driven Only To Church...'
Using a HF transceiver over the Internet
This Hobby Sure is Changing...
What's Up with Echolink?
EchoLink and Emergency Communications


Other General Articles
eHam.net - server performance issues
USS Indianapolis CA-35 Radio Room
Lecher Wire Follow-Up
eHam Hiccup
Icom HM 98 or HM 133 Hand Mic Project