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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:

Rabe Marsh (W3TNU) on June 19, 2003
View comments about this article!

Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:

        "Good fences make good neighbors" wrote Robert Frost in the poem, Mending Wall. Large beam antennas usually don't, in suburban America.

        When I decided to get back into ham radio (by which I mean HF operation) after a lapse of several decades hard at work, I had to decide what kind of antenna I should raise in my well-manicured neighborhood. I surveyed all my neighbors' homes, and found that the roofs no longer held antennas -- everyone, without exception, had cable. The argument that a beam antenna is just a big TV antenna no longer had any force.

        I like my neighbors and I think they like me. I was not about to enforce my right to erect a two or three element beam on them. What would look beautiful to me would certainly look awful to them. And I would constantly hear about that from them. Another consideration, of course, was that there were so many large trees nearby that a beam would lose its effectiveness.

        After reading every antenna book published by the ARRL and the RSGB, I settled on the vertical as the best antenna for me under the circumstances. Pictures of the all-band, commercially designed verticals looked as bad as the yagis -- from my neighbors' point of view -- with their bulging traps, horizontal members and spider canopies. Then I saw the High Sierra antenna, and knew I had found the solution: my roof came with a ready-made base support for that antenna's mounting bracket - the iron plumbing vent or standpipe that sticks up through the roof.

        I was able to mate the vent pipe to the mounting bracket, as shown in this photo. The board is 1" thick plywood, held to the mounting bracket with stainless bolts and nuts, with three hardware store variety U-bolts holding the wood to the vent pipe. Unfortunately, no saddles came with the U-bolts, so I doubled up on the straps.

        This motorized vertical antenna requires a good counterpoise or multiple radials. First, I tried a 16 foot counterpoise, which I fed down into the vent. My Yaesu FT-897 lets me know when the SWR is above 3:1, and it clearly told me that this counterpoise alone would not do the job. However, I was still able to get a workable SWR on three bands: 30, 17 and 12 meters, using the FT-897 antenna tuner.

        Next, I drilled and tapped a 9/64 inch hole in the iron vent, and ran a heavy copper wire from a lug on the bolt to the mounting bracket. Now I could tune all bands from 80 to 10 meters, but the SWR was still higher than I wished on four bands: 20, 15, 12 and 10 meters. On the lower three bands, 80/75, 40 and 30 meters, the SWR was so low that there wasn't even an indication of reflected energy on display.

        Finally, I mounted the eight 8-foot radials on the roof. This was not an easy job for an old, fat man on a 30 degree slope. But with a safety rope in one hand and silicone sealant in the other, I was able to slip the ends of the radials under the shingles and apply a squirt of sealant under each shingle, hoping it would harden enough to keep the radials from slipping out. So far this has held well. My 60-year old house was not designed for the radials, but I spaced them as best I could, with the lowest radial hanging over the gutter.

        With the three types of ground substitutes -- counterpoise, vent pipe and radials -- I can now tune the Sequoia antenna with its motor alone. The antenna tuner is disconnected. The SWR is very low on all bands, and, as before, the reflected energy doesn't show up on the display on some of the bands.

        "Since the vent is on the back side of the roof, the antenna cannot be seen from the street side of the house. The surrounding trees mostly block the view of the antenna from the sides. Only if one is standing in the back yard can the antenna be seen. Running 100 watts, I have not yet had any complaints about RFI from the neighbors -- perhaps because they cannot tell that I have a ham radio station. With limited operation, I have had good reports from California, Miami and Brazil on 17 and 20 meters, which have been mostly lousy lately.

        So far, everyone is happy.

Member Comments:
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Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N6AJR on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Great article and a good job on the antenna, I like the high serrias any how. and better than an attic dipole.. 73 tom N6AJR
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by M3SKF on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice to read this,keep up the good work & thanks for this topic the pictures are great.Shows what you can do when you think about your promblems & how to deal with the tasks.
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N4GI on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
"Another consideration, of course, was that there were so many large trees nearby that a beam would lose its effectiveness."

Huh? Where did you get this information, and what exactly does this statement mean? I've successfully used yagis mounted -IN- trees before.

If you were a nice neighbor, you would put up a very tall tower so you could communicate effectively during emergencies :-)

Blake N4GI
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KC2GUY on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well I did somethin different. I put my Hustler Vertical in the middle of an evergreen tree....all are happy, neighbors, XYL and me as the performance is
still great. Try it.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W3RAZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This is a good article, but I am at a disadvantage when I would want to try the same thing. First, my house has PVC for it's vent pipe so the heavy copper conductor ground part would not work. To me, verticals are the most friendly neighborly antennas, but so is HFPack operation! :) I intend to do HFpack from my deck. When I want to get on the air, set it up quickly, then when I am done take it down. Right now I am going to setup either a AR10 Ringo, or a Super Antenna MP-1 on my HTX-10 and work ten meters. I may go the MP-1 route as my next radio will be a Yaesu FT-817. IN the winter, I could operate out there with exception of when it's really cold, then I could just run coax into the house and leave it lay after I tear the antenna down each time. The Antenna and a LDG Z-11 I can use on both rigs, so I may buy the antenna, and to try to get a local 10m net setup in our area as propagation is not the greatest on 10m right now. May buy the MP-1 then the tuner and then start saving for the rig. In fact, I am going m repeaters are mostly unreachable for me now as the HTX-10 has no CTCSS unit on it. In any case, I would like to see more articles like this (modifying commercial antennas for non ideal situations).
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W3RAZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hmm.....my pine is just starting to get tall enough that I could try this! :) Best part is now it's low enough I could hang it using a small ladder. As the years go by, it would only get higher....hmmm... :)
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KX2S on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I found a better way. Got a permit and put up a tower.
Installed a couple of monobanders. Now the antennas are above the trees. No problems with neighbors cable TV takes care of TVI. Well it's all legal so what can they say. Did have one complaint from the next door neighbor. His wife complained that I was interfearing with her TV show. Seems I was not on when she watched her show. Told him to call the cable company. Well they found a bad connection on the drop comming off the pole. They now love me and thanked me for the suggestion, she stated her TV never worked better then it does now.
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KO4NR on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good for you!! Any antenna is better than no antenna!!

Hope I bump into to you on the bands.
73,
Bill
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KG6AMW on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article from someone who cares about his neighbors. I put up a Force 12 XK vertical painted it green and at 15 feet in length and ground mounted is very low profile. Performance is on par with properly situated dipole. How about stringing up some thin wire for a dipole for comparison purposes?

KG6AMW
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K0BG on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
My only comment would be the support being stout enough. Most newer homes use plastic pipe for the vents, and these would never hold in any kind of wind area.

Alan, KØBG
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W3JXP on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
K0BG is right, vent pipes are not, even in older houses strong enough to hold an antenna that big. I would suggest a roof tower. Your asking for roof leaks.

John W3JXP

PS:
I put up a 40' tower in back of my house, with 6el HF log on top. My neighbors asked what it was for, and I found out that some in their youth were interested in ham radio. But none complained about it. I've never had so much fun in Ham radio before. I hear stuff I never heard before on verticals, or dipoles. Beams are good, towers are good.
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N0JYC on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You did a very good job of analyzing (with consideration of your neighbors the number 1 priority)your situation. And, you arrived at a compromise that still works for you. Great job. I too, have gone the vertical route in my neighborhood.

73
Rick
N0JYC
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N6TGK on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It's nice that he wanted to appeal to his neighbors, and I can't really blame him for that. However, I'm the type of person that, if there's no rules against it, I'm going to put up a beam on a modest tower. No one has the right to NOT be offended and if that means they have to put up with my antenna, so be it.
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WB2WIK on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice article, and nice job with the screwdriver.

It's true that modern homes using plastic vent pipes probably need something different for a support.

Comments:

Does the noise the screwdriver makes while tuning cause any issues inside your home?

Can you add more radials? Determining antenna effectiveness based on SWR measurements is a bit like determining lighting by measuring the V-A consumed by the lighting fixture -- they really have nothing to do with each other! You might find as Cycle 23 spirals down into the noise (as it is already doing) that the minimal radial system you have is disappointing; however I would bet that 16-24 radials will bring signals right back out of the noise and make them workable (based on my own experience with rooftop verticals).

You've done a great job on the "considering the neighbors" front, for sure; however I've owned many homes from coast to coast and rarely if ever had any neighbor problems resulting from towers or antennas. At my current home, I made friends with the neighbors, put up a tower and beams (small suburban lot, very visible), and then asked them all what they thought. Nobody had actually noticed, until I told them "look up," and when they did, without exception every neighbor said something to the effect, "You never complained about my (fill in the blank: barking dogs; late parties; visitors parking in front of your house; etc), so I'll never complain about your antennas -- don't be silly!" And that was that.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KG4YJR on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with N6TGK. Have you ever noticed that nobody ever minds trash cans out on the curb for two days or cars with flat tires parked on the street for weeks but let them see a tower or antenna for radio equipment and it's "OH MY GOD!!!"
A friend of mine many years ago put up an antenna on his roof for his CB equipment. He took a couple of days off from his task and before his equipment had even been hooked up to it, people were already knocking on his door telling him that he was messing up their television reception. He politely invited them into his house and showed them the equipment stacked up, unconnected and unplugged. Then he yelled at them to shut their mouths, mind their own business and get the hell out.

73
Dave
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KL7EDK on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article. Thanks for sharing it and the pictures. I'm glad you were able to work out a solution that is workable for you and also the neighbors. The metal drain vent sure helped on this one. Good luck and hope to see you in the logbook.

73 Jerry KL7EDK
 
Thanks, but.................  
by K7LA on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Congratulations on your successful installation. However, I decided to cut a local permit and erect an array. One overly concerned busybody neighbor moved into the neighborhood a couple of years after the antennas went up.

This person, who has no qualms about hosting noisy backyard pool parties seemingly all summer, came to my door on numerous occasions to complain. There was no interference issue, just aesthetics. Seems she didn't like looking up from the pool and seeing beams.

I made her a simple offer: just pay me the cash equivalent of all my local property taxes every year (which is steep) for as long as I own the residence and I'll take down the beams. If not, shove off because I have the RIGHT under permit to operate.
NO PAY, GO AWAY.

She said it wasn't her responsibility, so I advised her I would no longer entertain her obsession with my hobby and not to return.

Haven't had any problems since!
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WB5TVI on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I am bothered by the negative connotation presented here of having a legal Yagi on a legal tower in a residential area. My home of 7 years is in an upscale well kept neighborhood of Plano TX with underground cable TV and utilities. After an initial bit of culture shock with my neighbors, I have invested significant time in educating the entire neighborhood of the value of Amateur Radio. I became a board member of the HOA and involved myself in the entire interest of my community. At the same time I provided many HAM related public service articles for our newsletter and personally got to know my neighbors.

Bottom line I reside with my 40 ft. freestanding tower topped by an Optibeam 9-5 and inverted vee. I resolved completely the complaints of 2 neighbors about RFI. Funny thing…they had identical Sony Surround Sound systems.

The vast majority of amateur radio installations are in residential communities. We should have the respect not to put up poorly installed unsafe antennas. However, there is nothing wrong with a FCC licensed amateur radio operator having an effective antenna no matter the dollar value of the homes in his/her community.

With all that said…we all have to make the decision on what type of antenna to erect.

73,
Don WB5TVI
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W3RAZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
If I could afford putting up a tower I would also. Also, if I did, I am afraid that I would get asked to take it down. In any case, I would rather put up something that works for both sides instead of putting up what works for me and not condiering others. To me, sometimes these are things that can be invaulable when it comes to exercises like Field Day. What happens of the day before FD, the guy who was bringing the triband beam ends up getting called to go across country for work? What happens if he is not willing to let another club member take the beam? This is when you have to mass antenna bulding knowledge to get an antenna up. Things like this could be valuable. Learning how to operate when YOU DON'T have a tower and beam could be vaulable! Ham operators should learn every facet of antennas and working off of different ones. Yagi's are nice, but not always practical. You may at some point get a dream setup, but what good is that if you have to setup dipoles and verticals and run off of those in a emergency? HFpack is a awesome way to not only be able to learn all kinds of antennas, but to be able to operate anywhere. HFpackers operate in all kinds of places. Next time you go on a trip, a HFpacker could be working DX in the room next to you! ;) It IS possible to work DX without all of that. I would love to have a big multiband yagi up in a tower but it ain't happening! I can do this. It will make me happy and my neighbors won't suspect or know a thing.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KA4P on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Boy! I thank God I live in the country with no neighbors nearby.

Life is too short not to have big antennas and tall towers!

KA4P

 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by AE7I on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the description of your screwdriver antenna installation. It should work very well from that elevated position with the counterpoise wires.

I live in a neighborhood where the CC&R's strictly prohibit any external antennas with specific clauses prohibiting "ham or CB antennas." However, I installed a High Sierra Designs HS-1800DX in a ground mounted stealth installation with excellent results. I ordered it with a two-tone grey powder-coated whip section which becomes virtually invisible when viewed from the adjacent lots. I brought the coaxial cable into the home within a PVC pipe buried in a trench with drain holes in the lowest section. Although neighbors walk the path behind my home every day, not one has noted the antenna. Also, no TVI or other interference has occurred.

Happily back on the air!

Craig AE7I
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8OB on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Same here went through the hell of getting a permit for my tower and antennas. Only one neighbor did any complaining and I told her when she cleaned up all that trash in her backyard I might start to think about the antenna. I say to hell with the neighbors if you have a right to put up a tower.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K3LUE on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Great article. I'm at the point where I would like to get back into hf but live in a condo. We do have a courtyard that I had a Hustler vert installed. However, I had just come from a qth where I had a 4 el beam on a 70 ft tower and the vert didn't cut it. Went to Sats. Unfortunately, several fell out of the sky, one is braindead and not reliable and the biggest and best, blew its top shortly after orbit and became user unfriendly for old Mode B ops like myself.
Problem with most verts is the radial system. Thanks for the tip on the High Sierra type verticals now if there was one that didn't require such an elaborate bunch of grounding, I might be in business.
One thing about it though, there's nothing like a new beam rising up in the air for neighbors to begin finding "strange noises" and "snowy pictures" in their house. ;-)
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K0PD on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Great article and well written but i'm still trying to find in your article where one responder say's you had stated you had operated yaqui's in the tree's.There are two ham's on my Block ,me and a neighbor 2 houses down who now is no longer active " well any way we had a horriffic wind storm one evening and it twisted and blew his top tower section with it's 3 beam's over on the neighbor in between us house roof.Tho the damage was minimal i decided to lower my tower down so if the same happened to me it would not create the same type of problem on the otherside of his house.Since i also have a old r5 verticle which i use now for higher band work and a dipole for lower band's i am still happy and my neighbor is much friendlier,after all we all have to live together and a little compromising makes for good neighbor's.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by AF4MP on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It always amazes me how people will take a stand and defend the most absurd of notions just for the sake of defending the principle of personal freedoms. Yet some of these individuals will turn around and meekly and timidly accept dictatorial orders that personal antennas (ham, TV, etc.) should not be allowed.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KS1A on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Rabe, Great thinking and great article! There absolutely are times when a beam doesn't fit with the neighborhood, and still you're on the air having fun. The ARRL book Stealth Antennas really opened my eyes about operating with less than a beam. Wish I had known this long ago. All the places I lived where a beam was not an option (landlords, associations, etc) and I didn't operate thinking it was BEAM or NOTHING! Man, all those years I could have been on their air. Nice job. You're a good neighbor, too. If everyone thought reasonably about when to put up a tower and when to choose an alternative, we might have an easier battle getting better tower legistlation in supposrt of hams. The lobby groups ALWAYS use the example of the guy who puts 5 towers on his 50' by 80 lot as the example against us. I'm all for the most aluminum you can have and the highest you can go. But if you take the temperaturre of the street you live on and going big isn't cool, you can still work em all with a setup like this.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3IJW on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I have antenna envy. You guys with what you consider 'compromise' antennas have it made! I'm still trying to get a good swr on my 12th floor apartments metal balcony railing :)
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W2VD on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article Rabe! I had been considering the same type of setup. I live in a 5 story apartment building, on the ground floor. I had a mini-G5RV up on the roof, which worked fairly well for a couple of years. Well, the G5RV ended up being vandalized, and I'm in the process of getting another antenna up there. I'm sure I could rig up a mount for a screwdriver antenna (I have several). But theft is my prime concern. In my environment in NYC, I'm not sure the screwdriver would stay put. It probably would "grow legs," and walk away. hi

If I lived on the top floor, I'd probably try a window mounted screwdriver. Oh well, I guess I'll just end up with a ladder line fed doublet (being made from wire, it could only grow very skinny "legs," so it could not walk away very far...hi).

73 de Mike, W2VD
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KE4ZHN on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Although I commend the author for trying to be a good neighbor, one has to examine this closer. Why must the ham operator ALWAYS go out of his/her way to appease the neighbors? If this gentleman had neighbors like mine who harrassed me to death over a lousy 40 ft push up mast, I bet his outlook would be much different! While I agree that living in peace with your neighbor sounds nice, this is not always the case. Some people just like to be a nuisance, regardless of how nice you may try to be or get along with them. If THEY dont like your tower or beam, then they expect YOU to take it down because it bothers THEM. This is pure bullcrap! As a legally licensed ham, on legally owned property, you SHOULD in fact be able to put up a reasonable antenna system. No, this doesnt mean an 80 ft tower on a 30 ft frontage lot, but a simple push up mast with a small yagi, or wire antenna is what I would consider reasonable. This trend of gestapo homeowners associations, and wanna be neighborhood cops ordering people around is pure nonsense! Once again, you can see the trend towards hams being cowed into accepting this garbage in the interest of not making waves and keeping the peace. While this may be acceptable to some, I bet the majority would not accept this! Sure, in many cases its impossible to fight it, or just the circumstances of the location warrant a compromise antenna, but I still dont agree with the fact that many hams today are being forced to run these compromise antennas just to make the neighbors happy! Many of my neighbors do things I would consider offensive, like blasting car stereos at 3 am as they drive through the neighborhood, or running loud exhaust, or firing up chainsaws at 6 am. No, I dont call the cops on them, or even complain, live and let live is my motto, but I dont expect these same inconsiderate jerks to cry about my antenna either. Its sad that people are being led to believe that these so called wanna be commies feel that their needs are better or more important then everyone elses. Put up that tower and let them whine! A tower is no uglier than the 15 pink flamingos they have in their front yard is it?
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3ZKP on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
<< Also, if I did, I am afraid that I would get asked to take it down. >>

By whom? If you have the required permits, tell whoever complains to get a life!

 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WA2JJH on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Your a better man than I. I get sick on any roof that is not flat!
Know what you mean about these new trendy expensive verticals. They look like a commercial radio tower.
True they are able to get true 1/4wave and 1/2 wave elements sticking out of the side. And the prices!
$300 and up for a vertical!

Interesting about the motor drive. I had a slighlty different idea. I got a Imax-2000. 24 feet of fiber glass. No performance on 40 and 80. I was thinking about building a water proof relay box. On 40 and 80, i would just put in a large diameter coil in series with the antenna, one coil for 40, and one for 80.

I am trying to think of a way of being able to deactivate 20 feet of the coax shield for the lower bands.

I add as many radials as my roof permits. Not many!
The cable TV guys keep cutting them!
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K9XYZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Rabe never said he "had to " go out of his way to please the neighbors, he was the one who made the choice NOT to put a tower. His thoughtfullness should be commended but many of you choose to have to attitude of "to hell with the neighbors or anyone else." Good to read an article by a ham who thinks of others not just himself. The same people making negative comments about this article are no dought the same ones running 1.5K and higher to talk on bands that don't need anywhwere near that much power, me thinks they are making up for some other "shortcomings' if you get my drift, same thing applies to having ten towers in a small lot!!
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N6TZ on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Why are we so ashamed to put up a good antenna? Other hobbies are not so shy! I live near the ocean and there are a zillion sail boats in the bay and there are private airplanes going overhead all the time, and there are loud cars, and people with campers in the driveways, and on the weekends these campers are clogging the freeway for 50 miles, and the list goes on and on..... So what is wrong with a beam, and by the way the trees will soak up your vertical signal as well as the other antenna types. I don't get it. Some of my neighbors are negative about my beam, but their pool solar heater on the roof facing the street is just as bad. So the heck with people that want to run our lives, this world is getting so politically and snotty correct that it is making me sick. My beam is a very neat installation with city permit and without any doubt I can say that my yard and house is the best looking one on the block. If you want a picture of my place, just send an email to n6tz@netscape.net.
This is my opinion, Let's enjoy our freedom to enjoy our lives-fly your beams !
The heck with Mr. & Mrs. Nose-in-the-air Neighbors.
Hal, N6TZ
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8OB on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well before you get all worked up I work QRP. Like I said its a free country, the neighbors want to have pictures of somebodies hind end picking flowers in their back yard fine, I have a legal permit for my antenna system and damn if anybodies going to tell me I can't because its not beautiful tough. As far as shortcomings I'll lay er on the table in a shortcoming contest anytime. Some of us can't be led around with a ring in our noses
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KA5N on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
It is possible to have a vertical that works on many bands and actually have gain as the frequency goes higher and cost a lot less than $300. The simplest is a ground plane vertical with 16.5 to 17 foot elements(vertical part is one element each radial is one element)all radials the same length and the base of the antenna at least ten feet off the ground. Instead of cut and try trimming use open wire feed (or twinax or equivalent)and a good tuner. I use a Ten Tec 229 with the built-in balun (Ten Tec 238 is current model).
This is give very good results on 20, 17, 15, 12, and 10 meters while it is very usable on 30 and 40 meters.
Consider that most commercial antennas have only 8 to 16 feet of actual radiator and are loaded wtih lossy (expensive) traps and coils. This way a single tuner or transmatch is the only lossy element and it is indoors out of the weather! I love my vertical and have used the same chunk of aluminum for 15 years. I am too old and decrepit to climb towers safely and too heavy to get on the roof without having to get it repaired. As far as the neighbors go I have been trying to figure out some way to annoy them as much as they annoy me. Doesn't work.
Allen KA5N
 
Well Done Rabe, You're a Great Ambassador  
by INITZERO on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
W3TNU: Nice article. Your installation looks great and
it sounds as though you're getting out. Thanks for
thinking of someone other than yourself when you
installed your antenna. You're a great ambassador for
amateur radio. We all need more hams like you.

> Then he yelled at them to shut their mouths, mind
> their own business and get the hell out.

> I told her when she cleaned up all that trash in her
> backyard I might start to think about the antenna.

And hams wonder why they have a bad reputation.

Anyone in the service industry will tell you that a
happy customer might tell one or two people of the
experience. An unhappy customer will tell a few dozen.

It doesn't really matter if you are legally allowed
to put up a big tower if it ends up upsetting the
entire neighborhood. That sort of ill-will can bite
us in the buttocks at the most inopportune times.
(Maybe not today; maybe not tomorrow...)

If your neighbors understand and appreciate ham radio,
they are more likely to support our efforts to gain
space (tower, operations, etc.) in public buildings.
It costs next to nothing (relatively) for a city or
town to buy equipment or make space available to an
ARES, RACES or other ham service group. That $3,000
or so is pocket change to most towns. Tower space --
possibly even more valuable -- doesn't cost the city
anything to give you but most ham groups could never
afford the rent at list price.

A city administrator or commissioner who has had a
bad experience with a stuck-up ham -- or had a friend
or neighbor who had a bad experience -- will never
allow you to get on an agenda let alone fund a ham
project based on one bad apple.

Fair or not, that's how it works. So, next time you
feel like flaunting your legal rights, take a breath.
Count to ten. Lay on the syrup. Be as nice as possible
even if you're mad as hell. Don't back down -- you
know that your tower is staying -- but don't be an
ass unnecessarily.

Matt (k4mls)
 
RE: Well Done Rabe, You're a Great Ambassador  
by KG4YJR on June 19, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
> Then he yelled at them to shut their mouths, mind
> their own business and get the hell out.

The neighbors made up an excuse and lied about the antenna messing up their televisions when he hadn't even hooked up his equipment to it yet. As one ham stated above it's always the ham who has to please everyone by compromising their rights and themselves. I also forgot to mention too that nobody complains about the neighbors who like to start up their power equipment early in the morning every weekend disregarding all their neighbors rights to a peaceful morning. You can't see an antenna unless you look at it but you can sure hear a lawn mower or chain saw for a good distance. Let somebody tell them to keep it down for a couple more hours too and see how much co-operation they get.

73
Dave
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KK7WN on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
You are to be congratulated for following the ancient and wise advice that " the wise man never plows his field to the fences".
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by VE4HQ on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hmm ?? I know most Electrical Codes forbid attaching antennas to a chimney what do they say about a plumbing vent stack?
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8LV on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I use an Outbacker Outreach antenna, and I am a QRP operator. And it all works out just fine. Now, I am a little older(!), and fooling around up in the air is not where a fat middle aged man should be. (How I miss climbing our old TV antenna at home in Sandusky to see the fireworks from Cedar Point...)
With the Outbacker, you have everything at gound level. No motors. No guys. No big wind. No ice to bend the whole thing over. I'll bet that some wheelchair-bound hams could appreciate this! When yer done, if you really wanna (or hafta), you unscrew it, flold up the stand, and as they say, 'yer outta da kitchen!!
Expensive, but hey, have you been to the hardware store lately and bought a few screws and clamps for some project? You might wanna give it a try, they make some pretty sturdy, nice antennas in upside-down land...
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8OB on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
All this crying here about kissing everybodies butt. Sounds like a case of sour grapes to me. Please explain again to us why if we have the right to lawfully construct and own a tower and antenna on our property, why we have to be concerned over neighbors who on one side of me keep a landfill in their backyard and on the other side run a very busy pharmacy business out of their basement? This used to be a quiet residential neighborhood. Oh I bet its because of my tower and antenna, the bad advertising must have attracted the riff-raff, yeah I got it now.I bet that is why the cellular phone companies have plunked down towers all around me as well. Lets see I am susposed to back up and take it and keep my mouth shut. Not in this lifetime thanks. By the way that is a nice looking antenna installation you have there and I suspose that if I lived in a area with CCIR's I would do something like that.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WI0T on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Another good antenna that I use is a dipole fed with
ladder line in the attic of my 2 story house. Just keep
the ladder line away from metal objects.

Loads 80-10, and the neighbors don't see it, which
is why I use it. Eliminates the neighbors who seem
to like to complain.

Previous QTH I installed a ground mounted vertical
about 5' from the back of my house. Got several
complaints that evening about TVI, except I hadn't
run the coax to the antenna, much less put power to
it. After a year of problems with the neighbors, I
simply put a dipole in my attic. Problems gone, even
though I was running 100 watts (I was running QRP with
the vertical).

So out of sight was out of mind. Of course I later
moved out of that area, and now just continue the
stealth mode to avoid the entire situation...I don't
need to know how may nut jobs I live next to.

73, Rod WI0T

 
Good Job! But what about the OTHER 'free vent pip  
by W8KQE on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I noticed another 'free' vent-pipe to the left of the one with the antenna. I am thinking that a small 6 meter loop or PAR 'Omniangle' painted the color of your shingles would do just fine there!

; )

There have been some really good 'Sporadic-E' openings on 6 lately! And it's amazing what you can work with a simple horizontal 'loop' or 'halo' type antenna!!

Another option for HF would be to mount a 'tilt-over' installed vertical, like the 'GAP Eagle DX' (which works well with just the 3 counterpoises that come with the antenna), or a 'Cushcraft', either in the ground, or in a small bucket or flowerpot that can be moved and stored away. My friend had the same dilemma as you, so we filled a large, but attractive, plastic flowerpot (a flowerpot is aesthetically better looking than a bucket) with 'Quikrete' cement, and put a 5 foot mast inside. We designed a 'tilt-over' latch, and mounted the 'GAP Eagle DX' onto the latch and additional small mast section, and voila, a vertical which tilts over and down when not in use! The 'Eagle DX' so happens to have 2 of it's 3 radials (counterpoises) in a straight plane, so it is easily tilted over to one side without harming or bending the radials!!! It is almost 'custom made' for this application, in this regard. Fortunately, it gets out great as well for a 'stealth setup' and 100 watts!
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N4GI on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
This thread is very disappointing to read.

"Not Visible" should NOT be a design criteria for REAL ham antennas!

73,
Blake N4GI



 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W3RAZ on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
KS1A Said" The ARRL book Stealth Antennas really opened my eyes about operating with less than a beam. Wish I had known this long ago. All the places I lived where a beam was not an option (landlords, associations, etc) and I didn't operate thinking it was BEAM or NOTHING! Man, all those years I could have been on their air."

And isn't this what it's all about? Getting on the air should be the goal. Working what we can work should be the goal. Not putting up monster towers. and hige antennas. What is the challenge in that? Someday, we'll all get our dream. For now I am going have as much of a blast I can have with what I got! If that means working 5 watts out QRP, so be it. Besides, we should all be using THE LOWEST AMOUNT OF POWER TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION! This is even in the test by god! In Intermod alley of down town, I still have a blast hitting most of the repeaters on LOW power on a HT! I don't need no stinkin mobile(but oh do I want one! :) ).

I agree with the others on here. When we can put up that tower and stuff and not get complaints about it (when we move out in the country where it's better anyway), then we can. We should try to be a good neighbor. All of my neighbors know I am a ham. All of the folks on the bus see me talking on the repeater know I am a ham. If they ask me questions (well, except for illicit things like jamming questions and illegal CB amp quesions) I gladly answer. Right now I have one of the bus drivers asking me about taken the test! THIS is what we need! Good will! This will make MORE hams and hopefully, at some point, make putting that tower up easier. Educating the masses about our hobby will not only make more, it will just also be proof that most interference is not a ham setup, but is usually a CBer running illegal amps.

73

W3RAZ
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KG6AMW on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
There are two issues here. One involves the legality of putting up a tower and second has to with neighbor relations. In Carmichael, Ca. there are no CCRs restricting amateur radio towers. The permit process is not hard. But, who wants to fight with their neighbors over aestatics and imagined TVI? If and when I decide to put a tower, I will most likely put up a crank up 30-40 foot tower to use at night and the early morning hours only. I will continue with my dipoles and verticals until then and probably afterwards.

KG6AMW
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KG4PZZ on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nine and a half acres...
County building on one side, 50 acre horse farm on the other, nobody in back.

Big-money homes across the street, nothing they can say.

The tower's going up before the end of the year, and there's nothing anybody can say about it. Have to love living smack-dab in suburbia with a 'country' lot.

Fred
KG4PZZ
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K5UJ on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I'm with Fred, KG4PZZ. Put up a 150 footer Fred! There was a time when a ham put up any antenna he wanted (or could afford) and that was that. I used to know a guy who, 30 years ago, had a 120 foot tower on a small suburban lot. For some reason during the past 20 years or so, people got it in their heads that towers are something to whine about. There's a kind of pack mentality about this fueled by people with too much free time on their hands and who are in a mental state where they're not happy unless their fighting something and meddling in someone else's business. Some folks live to have an issue to crusade over. One of these is EM fields causing cancer which has nothing to support it except bogus science. When someone decided towers are eye sores everyone jumped on that bandwagon. There are places for control freaks who want to police my property: planned developments and gated communities with their weird, molded, antiseptic appearance. Let these people move to these suburban ghettos.

"Besides, we should all be using THE LOWEST AMOUNT OF POWER TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION!"

I happen to enjoy armchair copy qsos. That means usually having to run more than exciter power on the lower HF bands. If we follow this statment to the letter (this is nothing against the qrp guys, but they sure like to flog the rest of us with this) it would go like this:

"Dean, can you hear me?"
"Sure Rob, you're 10 over 9."
"Dean, can you hear me now?"
"Well, you dropped down to S9."
"Okay, how about now?"
"You are barely above the noise--about 3 by 3!"
"Okay, fine--you are the same--Now we can have a qso because we are running THE LOWEST AMOUNT OF POWER TO ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION!"
"Okay Rob, this is no fun for me, 73 and good luck!"
"Okay Dean, see you later--QRZ from K5UJ."
"K5UJ from N9UJ"
"N9UJ, tnx for the call; can you hear me okay? I cannot talk to you until I am running the lowest amount of power to establish communication!!"...

Rob Atkinson
K5UJ
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by VA3 on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well done and interesting article. I must admit, I'm on the side of there is a big difference between what's 'legal' and 'stuff the neighbours' attitude and maintaining happy neighbourly relationship with people that are my FRIENDS. Just what we need, more amateur operators pissing off the neighbours.

I have a small, downtown lot (20'x110') and putting up a tower with a large beam is crazy. My neighbours would hate me; my wife wouldn't like it and I don't think it would look all that nice. Now, a nicely placed vertical on our third story would do the trick!

Cheers, Hugh VE3HMS (land of the common good :-) )
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3ZKP on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Nicely done article, although I, too, disagree with the premise that we have to keep the neighbors happy at all cost.

For the past two years I have been living in a HOA/CCR controlled neighborhood. This was NOT my choice: it is a company-owned house and I was transferred to this community, knowing it would be for only a couple of years.

I asked permission to ground mount my Butternut HF6V in the middle of my back yard. It would not be visible from the front and only partially visible from the sides. The neighbors on both sides said they had no problem with what I proposed - and their OK, in writing, went with the request.

REFUSED! External antennas not allowed! Oh yea, my back yard is 125 yards from THREE commercial towers belonging to the local AM/FM station!

Also not allowed (but nothing done about it) construction debris beside the house across the street; four cars in one driveway and three more on the street; unapproved out buildings and swimming pools on both sides of me. Not to mention the lawn mowers, weed eaters, etc at 6:30 on Saturday and Sunday morning.

I have been running a 130' wire from the shack window to the back fence to another window on the side of the house. NOBODY noticed. Performance is been marginal, NVIS mostly. But at least I have kept up my MARS activities and worked the occasional DX.

In a week I move back to Baltimore and my townhouse tucked in a commercial building downtown. Back to my 23,000 sq. ft. steel roof 30 feet above stree level with my vertical installed dead in the middle!

Lon

 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N0TONE on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good solution to the problem! But the problem might not have been as large as you thought.

When we moved into this neighorhood some 15 years ago, I had an antenna up in a heartbeat. First, it was a wire dipole between two trees, with RG-8 hanging from it. Not long after that, the RG-8 was replaced with homebrew open-wire line, 5 inches across. As time went on, I figured out ways to get the antenna higher and higher in the trees. It's now at 70 feet in those trees. Then came the push-up mast. 50 feet of it, insulated at the base, serving as a low-band vertical.

The neighbors did not ask about the antenna until the push-up pole went up. My stock response is "I'm a real supporter of emergency preparedness. In addition to keeping enough food and water to last a week in the event of an emergency, I also have a ham radio setup so that we can communicate if a disaster takes the phone lines down for a week. It's also turned into a hobby for me, and I've made friends all over the world with it." I pointed out that the first antenna, the wire in the trees, had been there about five years and since they hadn't had any interference from that one, the new one wouldn't cause any, either. Aesthetically, since the push-up pole was only a bit more visible than the ladder line of the dipole, nobody chose to complain, just show curiosity.

Later, I altered the push-up pole by adding crossed horizontal spars. This allowed me to run guy wires from top to bottom and make it rigid, and remove the guy ropes holding it up. Only a house bracket at 10 feet held it up. One of the neighbors commented that the new look was nice, because it was fewer ropes holding it all together. So, when I replaced the push-up mast with some Rohn 25 (mounted with an insulator at each leg), I explained to the curious that I felt a single tower had less visual impact than the pole with the ropes - and they all thought that sounded intelligent.

A ham five miles away has a six element tribander atop a crank-up tower. When he first put it in, he kept it collapsed, only cranking it up when he operated. But he started noticing that the neighbors commented on the antenna more frequently when it was cranked down. A tribander that's 30 feet long is a whole lot more visible close to the ground! So now he keeps it at 71 feet all the time.

I'm thinking of putting a tribander on mine now, but unfortunately, Rohn 25, bracketed at 10 feet and having no guys won't take much wind load. There's a rotatable shortened 40 meter dipole atop the Rohn right now, and I think I'm at the limit, so that's probably as far as I can go.

All this on about 25 X 35 feet....

AM
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KB1GMX on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I fall in the middle ground. I'm going to put up tower but, my sense of good looks take the forefront.
The town I live in won't bother me under 70ft but IT must fall on my property not my neighbors. Where I want mine limits me to under 30ft of Rohn25 for my VHF antennas. For me that's fine and compares to two locals with far bigger. Also at 30 footer bracketed to a ranch house that means no guy wires, for a cleaner look. Short feedlines too, nice for low losses. Can I put up bigger, yes. But I will not climb it! I will have a tilt base so I can even lower it to work on the antennas. I'm doing it for a better rotator mount and a bit more height. It will get me above the power lines I can hear, the plasma flat screen TV another neighbor has and I can hear every 70khz up the bands and other junk as well.

If the 20ft pushup pipe I've used for a few years never caused problems I expect less from a real tower.
Besides antennas for 6/2 and 70cm are small. ;)

The author hit a point and a point of pain. I'm sure some may not like the 30 footer. Some will not like any antenna, that's life. It's within the zoning and setback requirements of the town. It's MY backyard, I pay the taxes and I'm being reasonable, because the yard can support that 70footer that I don't want!


Allison
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3JV on June 20, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Many HAMs live in areas covered by deed restrictions and CCR's; whether they should care about the neighbors opinions is irrelevant to them, as most of the restrictions forbid any kind of outside antenna. I live in such a community (by choice) and started out with a wire antenna in the attic of the house; it worked to some extent. Then I heard about the Force-12 Flagpole Vertical.

The antenna is 16' high and made of MIL grade 2" aluminum. When installed, anyone looking at the "flagpole" would never know that it also doubles as a HAM radio antenna. I've gotten compliments on my "flagpole", with people stating that it looks very sturdy and admiring the fact that it does not bend in the wind like many cheaper flagpoles.

I installed it using Force-12's radial kit, which consists of (4)16' radials, and put in a good ground system at the point where the coax enters the house (3 8' ground rods connected by 1/2 inch flat braided wire). Using either the antenna tuner in your transceiver or an external tuner (depending on your rig), it is usable on all bands between 40 and 10 meters.

While this arrangement is not the same as having a 70' tower with a multi-element yagi, it performs amazingly well. It has made the difference between struggling to make contacts and really enjoying HAM radio again. There are 4 others in my community using the same antenna; they are all thrilled with its performance. I hesitated to post this because it sounds almost like a commercial for the antenna, but decided to go ahead and relay my experience because I thought there might be others who could benefit from this type of arrangement, but did not know that something like this was available.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WV4R on June 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice low profile installation... 'tuned/resonant' antennae must also be 'efficient radiators' and antennae with 'gain' at the proper 'altitude'. Bigger Is Better and Higher Is Better according to all I have read and experienced. I am quite amazed that your neighbors judge you by your antennae. Sounds like a Super case of 'sour grapes' to me. My neighbors evaluate me by my personality, my behavior... Who I Am. Of course I live on TheFarm and my nearest neighbor is over half a mile away... and I Like it that way! 73 es God bless, murf/wv4r.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KD2E on June 21, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Well there are two ways to go here, and everybody chooses one way or the other.
Screw the neighbors, I have a tower permit! If they can leave garbage cans out and cars with flat tires...I can put up a tower.
Some folks are friendly with the neighbors, and would not want to put up a big strange aluminum 'lightning attractor'.
Well, a small TH3jr on a 3 foot tripod will not look any worse than that vertical. It will work MUCH better, and you don't have to be forever fixing those radials.
That vertical ain't gonna stay up very long on that vent pipe anyway!
Before I put my beam up, I had it laying on top of a 6 foot wood ladder. I was checking the SWR characteristics of it. Just for yucks, I plugged it in to the rig. The thing worked better than my butternut vertical while on the ladder...with one element touching the ground!!
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WA2JJH on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
HMMM, Macavelli is calling. Say you do have a mother of all towers. THIS IS A HUMOR PIECE. Please do not respond with psuedo-intellectual dribble about how wrong this is!

Some Pat answers for your tower for your Neibhbors.

1)Do not say it is for ham, just say I have a FEDERAL LICENSE that says I can have it!

2)What I do with the Tower is on a need to know basis, and you don't need to know. Point to a cell site antenna, and say..if you only knew what that is all about! I do know the frequency....KENNETH!

3)The tower is used for a scientific study of sun spot cycles! Actually we all have to deal with sun spot cycles, so you are not Bull Crapping them.

4)The tower is for homeland security! You should be happy it is here!

5)Put up a nice american flag on the tower. Maybe a POW/MIA flag as well.

6)This tower is used for emergency communications, if the phone system fails.

LIKE I SAID..The following idea's are for entertainment value only.

I respect both sides of the spectrum. Those that do what the author did. However if it is your pursuit of happyness to have a mother of all towers, so be it.

Some HAMS have neighbors that would complain about Free beer and Lobster.They will take you to court.

Some neighbors will look up to you as the town electronics wiz.So in exchange for your tower, you can always give free advice on consumer electronics.
I think that is the best solution.

Some of them might want to become a Ham themselfs. You will have someone to ELMER.

Every O.M.'s situation is different. The author did an excellent job on the good Neighbor senario.
Some with the right attitude can put up a tower. In exchange you just answer some electronics questions.

73 MIKE
 
RE: keeping good neighbors-with a vertical  
by N3VY on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
How did you/do you mount antennas in trees?
N3VY
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3VY on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
How did you/do you mount antennas in trees?
N3VY
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8OB on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Antenna's in trees, that reminds me of when I was a kid. The Father of a friend of mine had just finished building a knightkit cb rig and didn't want to shell out the bux for a tower or be stuck at the 20 ft limitation for towers so he noticed he had several big honkin jack pine trees by his house. He talked my friend and I into climbing this 70 foot high sucker, we topped it, drilled through it in a couple of places and attached a 19 ft high ground plane antenna to it with long carriage bolts and some strapping just in case. We had to hoist up the ground plane sans radials attached to the mast, then attach the feedline and radials and mount it to the tree. Thinking back being up in that swaying tree never bothered us much as we all had dreams of becoming airborne rangers someday. How did it work for him....Excellant. Of course we were the crazy kids that liked to jump off the top of one of the power dams here into the water 70 feet below. Sometimes I wake up at night with a cold sweat after dreaming of doing it again.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by KY1V on June 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!

I would like to find one (1) ham whom can honestly tell me it is FUN to repeatedly yell your call sign in a pileup for a rare DX, only to find that after he worked 250 guys with yagi antennas he is now going QRT.

Get a life...get a yagi!

Heck, 2 of my neighbors conspired and cut down all the blackberry bushes on the edge of the property line between our homes. They were on my property. Now every time they pull in and out of their driveways at night, their headlights shine into my florida room. Do you think I care how they feel about the tower I am about to erect?

I have owned mono band yagi antennas all my life and I am currently using a vertical. While I work plenty of DX, I can honestly say it isn't fun. I do not enjoy pileups, calling CQ with no reply or even tinkering in a contest.

Fortunately, I will be erecting a 135' Rohn 45G rotating tower this summer. What's the first antenna going up?

Telrex 20M646 6el 20 meter monobander

When my neighbors complain, I will hand them a bucket of blackberries and tell to have a nice day!

David, KY1V (VP5X)
www.ky1v.com

 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by W8LV on June 24, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I am adding this later as a second comment..We really need to have legislation to get rid of CC&R's/zoning for our antennas. This should be the number one priority of the ARRL, and all of us. I think it's OUR "PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE" for all ham radio ops. I looked up my property covenants just for the heck of it--and found that no one "of the black race" could own the property! Of course, what court would find this covenant anything but absurd today? I was suprised to find such a covenant on my property, this was drawn up in 1952 I think, here in Ohio!! We need to think of our antennas being on the same footing--as legitimate, with all statutes/covenants as being absurd banning them as absurd. Some are so finely written, that having a cellular TELEPHONE would be a device emiting RF from a property would be against covenant. Think of your neighbors being told that they will have to part with their cellular phones! We seem to be in a new(er) time, when neighbors think that everything you do on your property is their business, when to cut the grass, if you spray/fertilize the grass, right down to how you disipline your children, or drink a can of beer in the back yard. Anything you do will effect their property value. (according to them).
I wonder if the FCC, when they denied us a remedy that would have classified us with the satellite dishes, really knows this "neighbor" principle and how better to take our spectrum ($$$$$$ surely talks, when you can auction off frequencies, don't it?) than in a roundabout way--no antennas means fewer ops (well, you can always operate mobile was their excuse--a pretty puny one at that)...less ops means less activity, calculated by the 'grey' factor (all of us being a little closer as a group to the SK list) means that it won't be real hard for industry to show a study that shows less band space used by hams--boy, that will certainly be a "hot tip", won't it? Add to this our new RF safety stuff--how long before a neighbor claims that yer RF caused his hemmorhoids (no--these neighbor-types ARE hemmorhoids--but that's besides the point), or made his kid come out with three heads, or gave him lung cancer?
Just more thoughts--I know that it is frustrating to have a neighbor like this--and it makes you angry, you want to take a "in his face" approach--and maybe, at the end of the day, some of you are right in your individual situations.
Once again, as for me, when I go out in my garden to pull weeds, just so I can eat a tomato or two, God sends bugs to bite me in the a$$. I don't know why God does this, since he was so kind as to provide me with the ground, water and tomato seeds. But I still try to manage best I can, I still pull the weeds, and I still do get bit in the a$$, but I still do enjoy a tomato every now and then. It's too bad that we have to at times go the low profile, stealth route. But operating in defiance of these viscious busybody retards, I think, also shows a certain victory at the end of the day--you can gloat like a 'muttah, knowing that no, they didn't out you off the air, because we've got all the quarterbacks on our side!
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K3ANG on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
One question: How tall is that vent pipe?
73
Greg
K3ANG
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K3ANG on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
One question: How tall is that vent pipe?
73
Greg
K3ANG
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K3ANG on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
One question: How tall is that vent pipe?
73
Greg
K3ANG
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by K3ANG on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
One question: How tall is that vent pipe?
 
RE: Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N3IJW on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
That's four questions.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by WD5BCL on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting project, and mixed replies, in my view. I have always thought that hamming wasn't simply blasting through a pileup with 1.5 KW and a massive antenna array; it was the idea of doing more with less. Out of this philosophy grew QRP operation, and with growing HOA and covenant restrictions, the advent of stealth operation. If you haven't tried either, you're missing something.

I operate "barefoot" with an old Tempo 2020 into a 10-20-40 meter Isotron combo (from Bilal Company) tucked into the rafters of my garage. Covenant and HOA restrictions forced me to totally conceal antennas from prying eyes, but I'm glad they did. I amaze more than a few DX contacts when I tell them the size and location of my antenna; in fact, the combo works so well on 40 through 10 that I'm considering the addition of an Isotron 80.

If you want to hear what a stealth station can do, meet me on an open band some weekend. Do I miss a few QSO's? Oh sure, and I'd be fibbing if I said otherwise. But it's the challenge of squeaking through under less-than-favorable conditions that makes this hobby fun.
 
Keeping Good Neighbors -- With A Vertical:  
by N4KZ on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Hmm. Interesting story. You should be commended for being so considerate of your neighbors. However, I think you were a tad pessimistic regarding the effects of trees on HF antennas and how your neighbors might react to more elaborate antennas. I have a ton of trees on my 7 acres and I have used them to support an 80 meter full-wave horizontal loop. I like verticals and have gotten good performance from them but I guarantee my loop would beat your vertical antenna any day. It works great and was cheaper than your expensive motorized vertical and since it's made of 18 gauge copper-clad steel wire it's almost invisible from in front of my home. I use it on 160-6 meters. At a previous QTH, I put up a 40-foot crank-up tower with a LP yagi on it despite my wife's objections. She was convinced we would be disowned by the neighbors, sued by them for TVI, etc. It was a bunch of baloney. After 2 years, only one neighbor even commented. "You a ham operator?" he asked. "I bet that's really interesting." That was it. Even my wife finally admitted that she had blown things all out of proportion when she threw her initial tirade. And for her to admit she was wrong was a VERY BIG DEAL!
It's nice to be considerate of others but don't sell yourself down the river. You have rights too!!!
 
Kissing Good Neighbors Rears -- With A Vertical:  
by KG4OOA on June 25, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The idea looks good from a design stand point.

That being said, when are we going to quit being wimps and stand up for our rights. These are freedoms and liberties that the United States faught wars to protect. That is the right of ownership of property without any interference. I would get the permits and build the largest array allowed. What are you going to do, let them tell you what size lights to use in your shack too? We are living to give your neighbors happiness but denying it ourselves. That don't make sense to me! How much did you pay to have to cowtow to them?

I know, I ain't PC and never will be. I don't have to make them happy if they don't want the same for me.

This is a matter of liberty and the freedom to own land without interference.
 
RE: Kissing Good Neighbors Rears -- With A Vertica  
by KG4VPV on August 31, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
I decided to use an existing direct tv dish mount on the roof for my butternut vertical. When I moved to Dallas, there were two satellite dishes there for some odd reason. One on the roof on the far side of the house, which I promptly climbed up on the roof, and removed, leaving the silicon sealed bracket so that it would not leave gaping holes in my roof. I used the existing pole, and bracket, and just attached my vertical. When I move, no more holes than when I moved in......The other satellite dish you ask? Well, that one was mounted on a tripod on the back porch. Currently, im in the process of designing an LNB for satellite work. I will let ya know how it turns out.
 
RE: Kissing Good Neighbors Rears -- With A Vertica  
by NOLICENSEASOFYET on December 10, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
Good day gentlemen, ladies,
I have had the best time reading this thread. I am scheduled for my test next month and after about 20 years of thinking about getting into ham will soon make the step. I just turned 40 and wanted a hobby that is just something I did after my children went to bed. I am going to start with my tech ticket and move my way up to the top license. I have learned alot reading your post and doing research. I enjoy reading about this hobby and would imagine that it is a great deal of fun.
I started in 11 meter when I was a young wipper snapper back when you still needed a license to operate. Stopped operating when I joined the service and just recently picked up some 11 meter equipment to talk on and study for my ticket. Now before it starts, I know and have experienced very bad radio practices on the 11 meter band. I don't participate in them, but try to maintain a degree of "radio morals". I have had operators on 11 meter tell me, "you seem more like a ham than a cb operator." I gladly tell them that I am in the process of getting my ticket and then generally get invovled in a converstation about how they can change their cb habits and make their band better to operate on. When we talk on a certain freq we do not respond to people that are vulgar or are using improper radio procedures. I am sure that I will get my ticket in the next month but while conversing on the "11 meter" band, I still consider it rewarding to apply the same moral ethics to my behavior. I have a very nice system with a very nice tower and it is very effective over long range at night. When talking local I have hooked up a hand held radio that reduces its power output to .5 watts. This helps to eliminate problems with neighbors and when people ask me about my signal being "weak" I say that I am operating on the minimum power to complete my transmission. After a month of so on the air, several other local 11 meter operators have followed suit and have a secondary unit that operates on very low wattage. This has made an increadable difference with the local 11 meter traffic on other channels. Several operators are now reading and studying ham literature. Maybe they won't ever be up to par with ham operators but at least they are trying to apply proper ethic to their hobby. Most haven't even read any literature relating to ham.
I like this hobby, will enjoy the ham hobby probably most of my life to come. I am putting up a 80 ft tower on my property supported by my second story home, no guide lines required. I am going to select a vetical antenna with high gain to be able to get a good signal out. But will again apply the same only enough to get my conversation out. I would imagine that I will continue to talk on 11 meter from time to time and hopefully bring some good operators to the ham hobby.
Get out your flame throwers guys, they are fun to read....


73

Mark
 
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