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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
Bruce Hawkins (AC6DN)
on
July 16, 2003
View comments about this article!
When is bad radio operating style, jamming?
There is a local ham who we'll call "Sam" (to protect the guilty). He not a kid, he's in his mid-upper 30s, and still lives at home.
He regularly, IDs, saying, "This is KF6... monitoring." These day's, few, will answer him. When he doesn't have much to say, he'll say, "ah-well-ah-well-you know-ah&...", way to often; i.e. 50% of what he sez. He regularly interrupts conversations, but has nothing to really contribute. He does this, at the most inconvenient, moment in time, in the conversation. This derails the conversations. We, all have, regularly, counseled him about his behavior. This, usually douse not work. He heard, that I thought his behavior was annoying, and was heard laughing about, it, on another repeater. Even, the late Jim Maxwell (W6CF), talked to him, (this helped for a week).
It's to the point that a private repeater has been created to avoid him. Now he knows about the repeater and refuses to, not use it. Or, Instead he'll, "Kerchunk" it, all day long (with out IDing). He has been asked to not use other repeaters, too...
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by W6WLS on June 30, 2003
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To All who care to read on.
As most of us (Ham Radio Operators) know, it is very
difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, but, with the
proper mentoring, patience and support it can work. This is not to say that the old dog will listen, but, he might. In any case, the first step would be to have
a few fellow Ham's (not just one) remind the old dog
there might be a better way to carry on a conversation
then he has been doing all along, then as a courtisy, take him off line and toss a few ideas (bones) and see if he bites. Someone will most likely have to be very diplomatic about how words are said, so as not to bruise the old boy, think how you would like to be treated in such a case. Second, there is the "over the air" spanking, this invloves scolding the old dog in the presents of others. This is tricky, the pooch will most likely bark very loud back, but, if others are there to afirm his misbehavior, he cant refuse the direction he has been given. All of us need direction at some time or another, this holds very true for me as well. The only differance is "how well do we take constructive help" and that is the key. As for "jamming" and if it is done with evil intent, then it must be handled with a strong hand and not allowed.
My bigest sugestion would be for the off the help, on the phone is good. Bottem line...No one wants to be labled as a "Old Dog", and it will take a few good people to help.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4VPV on July 16, 2003
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And if all else fails, report the operator to the FCC. "Kerchunking" a repeater continuously without ID is in fact a violation of FCC rules. Being as how this mischevous behavior has been ongoing for a very long time, and all other attempts to stop the behavior have failed, I would escalate it to the higher authority on the matter. Breaking into an ongoing conversation is not really considered "jamming", but is defined under malicious interference, which is also provided in the rules. The operator quite possibly could have his/her license modified in order to keep him off of those repeaters and promote the interest of the many. I dont doubt you would have enough operators around to vouch for the claim against him. Spending a lot of money just to raise another repeater and keep ONE operator from knowing about it, is not only the least cost effective alternative, but in a sense, many operators are suffering the consequences from the actions of one. If you ask me, it is worth looking into.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4VPV on July 16, 2003
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And if all else fails, report the operator to the FCC. "Kerchunking" a repeater continuously without ID is in fact a violation of FCC rules. Being as how this mischevous behavior has been ongoing for a very long time, and all other attempts to stop the behavior have failed, I would escalate it to the higher authority on the matter. Breaking into an ongoing conversation is not really considered "jamming", but is defined under malicious interference, which is also provided in the rules. The operator quite possibly could have his/her license modified in order to keep him off of those repeaters and promote the interest of the many. I dont doubt you would have enough operators around to vouch for the claim against him. Spending a lot of money just to raise another repeater and keep ONE operator from knowing about it, is not only the least cost effective alternative, but in a sense, many operators are suffering the consequences from the actions of one. If you ask me, it is worth looking into.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4VPV on July 16, 2003
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Oh and another thing, in the meantime, if you really want him off of the repeater, change the settings to use PL tones, that will get rid of the kerchunking, unless he has a way to figure out the PL tone frequency.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KA4KOE on July 16, 2003
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Git a bunch of the boys together in a pickup and pay Cletus a visit one dark moonlight night. Deliver a good ole fashion south Georgia a** whippin', and then suggest he behave.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by DOO-DAH on July 16, 2003
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Welcome to 2m !! This individual is a parasite who is completely lacking in mental discipline. The cognitive activity and expenditure of mental effort required to master CW is oppositionally and diametrically incompatible with this kind of behaviour. I GUARANTEE you that this individual is in favor of eliminating all CW requirements. And THAT is EXACTLY why we need to make absolutely certain that we have CW requirements to operate below 10 m!
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by DOO-DAH on July 16, 2003
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We have had exactly the same problem here and we have solved it. One of the club officers got on the repeater and told this yahoo: "You are a 'persona non grata'. This means that the club has decided that you are not wanted on this repeater and as a body has voted to place you on notice to stay off and not to use it". It worked.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1MKF on July 16, 2003
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Is he just an inconsiderate operator or does he suffer from some kind of mental defect? You could try using a round robin or net control style of ragchew when he gets on then make him wait his turn.
If you all have new radios you should check out DCS instead of PL on your "other" machine. He'll never figure it out. Otherwise have the guy who's callsign is responsible for the machine tell this yahoo to get off and stay off. If he doesn't then write the FCC.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N3HKN on July 16, 2003
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OR, it just annoys them more and they intensify their efforts. They now justify their behavior with the paranoid rationale that the "group is against them". They believe that they have a right to retaliate for being shunned.
Once you open up a forum (Internet sewer), or a repeater, for public use (anyone can pass the test) then all sorts of mentally marginal people will begin to "do their thing". They are less than 1% of the interested population. Unfortunatly they cause lots of harm. Sort of like Iraq. Majority just want to have utilities and a job to get on with their lives but a small percentage mess it up.
The only recourse is the FCC which is limited to Riley these days. Scolding the demented person over the air usualy invites more problems. Send a letter to the FCC with a copy to the village idiot and perhaps you will become lucky.
Dick N3HKN
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AETHERBURNER on July 16, 2003
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In reply to DOO-DAH: CW as a litmus test? ROTFL!!! I have known ops whose CW is real sweet and good but get them on voice and all they do is make a horse's hiney out of themselves.
Now back to the topic. Other commenters have suggested that formally letting him know that he is "persona non grata" is a good idea. Let him know in a formal letter from either the club or repeater trustee. List why he is being banned in the letter. If the banning is because of operating practices that are against FCC rules, mention the rule(s) being violated. Kerchunking is an unidentified transmission and is a violation of FCC rules. If a FCC violation is part of this, then send a copy of the letter to the FCC and request that this be put into his license file. The biggest problem with the FCC route is that they need to have dates, times, and locations of where this person is doing the pickle squeezing. This is just rules of evidence and it has to be good.
Good Luck with the situation - it is not an easy one to fix.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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Anonymous post on July 16, 2003
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Report the guy to the FCC. They are paid to make decisions about matters that you have described.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KB1FLR on July 16, 2003
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K1MKF has a valid point. As the parent of an autistic child, I have seen first hand what communication is like for people who don't grasp the social skills of conversation that most take for granted. The inability to pick up conversational queues is an Autistic trait, but is not limited to Autism.
Rather than attempt to isolate him from the group, he probably needs to be "hand-held" through a round robin net. The station handing off to him should provide him with a lead in that will allow him to contribute.
As for the kerchunking, it might be malicious or he might be keying out of nervousness and anxiety and really just wants to talk to someone.
73 de Rick, KB1FLR
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE4MOB on July 16, 2003
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Jamming (aka malicious interference) is when either:
A) an activity willfully and intentionally interferes with communications in progress, and its' sole purpose is to interfere with communications in progress
or
B) an activity willfully and intentionally prevents the onset of communications and its' sole purpose is to prevent the onset of communcations
(My definitions--not the FCC's or ARRL's)
It sounds to me like the guy is just plain rude and has no common sense. Unfortunately, there is no test element for "playing well with others" and "horse sense".
Someone give him a good tongue lashing over the phone.
Steve, KE4MOB
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KX2S on July 16, 2003
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After reading through the comments my only comment is, if you do not register with a real call you should not be allowed to comment
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K3UD on July 16, 2003
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Here we have a person that will break into a conversation at an inconvient time, does not have much to say, is in his 30s and lives at home, and sometimes kerchunks the repeater (you did not say, but the assumption might be that he does it when no one is using it). This forces the repeater group or club to put up a private repeater and leads to post that generates all kinds of comments concerning how to keep this guy off of it. If you were not serious, I would think of this post as being the beginnings of a how to manual in the art of keeping "undesireables" (define it any way you want) off repeaters as a whole.
Some of the techniques suggested in this thread all have been used in the past, especially in the early 90s period then we had the influx of the no-code technician class ham (undesirable?). So much so that there were articles and editorials in QST pleading for understanding and civility.
How many threads have we seen on eham and other internet and usenet sites concerning the lack of civility shown to hams (especially new hams) on two meter repeaters? Some one asked if the person in question had some mental problems. Has this been ascertained?
If this guy is in fact breaking FCC rules, then by all means try to talk to him and point it out. if it does not work, report him. I would assume that you positively know he is the one doing the kerchunking either via his own admission or by DFing the signal to his home. Announcing that he is monitoring the channel is not a violation, and at one time was considered SOP for 2 meter FM work.
If he is not violating FCC rules, being tossed off the repeater because he breaks into conversations or does not have nuch to say is well into the extreme form of remedy. Listen to the big roundtables on 75 some night. Same type of thing. While your repeater might be coordinated, you do not own the frequencies and unless this person is in violation of FCC rules, he is free to use it. The PL game does not work as well as it used to in the early 90s.
73
George
K3UD
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he's 36, and still lives at home?
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by KZ1X on July 16, 2003
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... well, you have a person there who most likely needs some professional help, and his behavior shows he is crying out for it. Trouble is, it's not our job, as hams, to provide it.
I'm not a psychologist, but I know enough to know when a person probably needs to see one.
My creative suggestion: go to your County health services, and explain the situation without referring to the jamming and so forth as being just bothersome, but as a violation of Federal communications law -- and something that often leads to or is an indication as a propensity towards other acts against society.
Is this guy employed, and if so, doing what? This sort of data is public, tell-tale information. The County people WANT to intervene so as to make sure folks like this get the help they need before things get worse.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE1MB on July 16, 2003
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Prozac!!!
This is typical of people in general. Like a neighbor how will never cut his/her grass or leaves a junk car in the yard. Just because someone has emotional problems does not mean that they will not be able to or want to put forth the effort required to pass a test. So if CW were such a great filter then why are the HF bands littered with trashy ops?
2meters is a easy band, all you need is a HT and no skill or effort required and wham, a disfunctional person with no life or social skills now has a way to "aquire friends", talk about their problems, or try to feel like part of the crouwd. A social life is a must-have for many people. Just some of those people have a twisted idea of what that social life should be.
Is this jamming?
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC9ASI on July 16, 2003
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K3UD said: While your repeater might be coordinated, you do not own the frequencies and unless this person is in violation of FCC rules, he is free to use it.
I say: NO. Repeaters are a private station, and the control operator of that station is expressly allowed to prohibit its use by anyone... for any reason. SO... on my personal repeater, I can say (with COMPLETE AUTHORITY) that you can't use it. And I don't have to have any reason at all, much less a good reason. It's my station, and I don't want you to use it... that's all there is to it. Repeaters are NOT paid for by the public, and so they're not public property. (This is covered pretty well in that most common beginner book "Now You're Talking")
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 16, 2003
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KC9ASI,
you own the hardware, but you do not own the frequency. If you have a problem with a user accessing your "station", what do you expect you can do about it?
As for the kerchunker, yes he is violating the rules. Contact your Local Interferance Committee for help.
We once had an old guy that was quite proud - well, EXTREMELY proud of his call, so much so that he used it before and after each transmission. I was almost happy to hear that he was last seen in the Silent Keys list.
I almost feel sorry for the guy in FLA that requested that call as a vanity call.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K3UD on July 16, 2003
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KC9ASI
While your repeater may be private, and as the owner, you might be able to keep other hams off of it, your input and output frequencies are available for any ham to use as long as they do not interefere with in-progress repeater operations. I am real curious why you would even have a private repeater that takes pairs away from a public repeater which could be used by the general ham community, and for what purpose do you wish to keep people out.
73
George
K3UD
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KB3JKB on July 16, 2003
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KB1FLR makes a lot of sense.
Remember the "Caine Mutiny" ?
Many against one sometimes creates an irreversable momentum. The constant kerchumking sounds a little like ball bearings to me.
Charlie, KB3JKB
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 16, 2003
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a couple suggestions, besides contacting the LIC.
Change the Tail Timer, make it ZERO no tail, no noise/signal when he unkeys...
If you have PL/CTCSS, change it, only give the CTCSS access to those that ASK for it.
Although, a little Georgia whoop ass works wonders too :) especially on slow learners.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by PHINEAS on July 16, 2003
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KX2S says
"After reading through the comments my only comment is, if you do not register with a real call you should not be allowed to comment "
What does a nick have to do with a person's comments? I frankly have my reasons for using a nick name instead of a call sign which should not even be your concern.
Phineas
You can figure out what my call sign is, I am not giving it away on this round...mwa haha ... -.-
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WA2DTW on July 16, 2003
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I fully agree with KB1FLR. This sounds like a lonely guy with little else to do, and who lacks the social skills that most of us take for granted. From what is described (properly identifying repeatedly that he is monitoring, difficulty contributing meaningful and interesting bits to a conversation) he is not doing much that is illegal. And are you absolutely certain that it is HE who is kerchunking the repeater? Can you PROVE it?
Isolating him further will encourage this behavior and make him even more obnoxious. Including him in moderated round-tables, teaching him the rules, etc. might actually make him into a motivated, productive member of the club!
"Professional help" may sometimes be overrated.
73
Steve
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KA4KOE on July 16, 2003
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Lets just cut the touchy feely stuff here.
Like I said, open up a 55 gallon drum of South Georgia Whoop a** and pour it over the sucka, and I guarantee no' mo' problemo bro.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4TPO on July 16, 2003
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It might be worth checking this program,
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4kqu/gb3dx_xmitid.htm
This allows you to identify FM transmissions, then you would able to identify the culprit.....
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE6OUD on July 16, 2003
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I goofed, we'll try this again.......
After reading through the comments my only comment is, if you do not register with a real call you should not be allowed to comment (by KX2S)
Amen there Rick, Amen! Charlie de KE6OUD
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1CJS on July 16, 2003
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I wonder if a thread will ever run that someone somehow won't turn into a bash party about that other argument.
This operator who is interfering should be visited by a group of the operators who support and use the repeater in question. Let him know his use of and interference with the repeater won't be tolerated and the next step the group will be taking if he doesn't stop is filing a complaint with the FCC. Let him know about the FCC and their way of now dealing with what he is doing. Chances are he'll stop rather than risk the fines, possible prison time AND the suspension of his licence and confiscation of his equipment.
Maybe the FCC won't go that far, but a scare of that type just might be the thing that will stop him from his rampages. If you offer him a little more friendship and a little camaraderie, just maybe he'll come around.
If not, follow through with the FCC filing.
Good luck!
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KB9YKY on July 16, 2003
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Just turn off the repeater. He can't "kerchunk" it if it is turned off. People should be more concerned about real "jammers"...like the infamous Glen Baxter.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WB9UDJ on July 16, 2003
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This seems to be a very common problem on most repeaters. Around here and as with many areas there are hams who are teaching no code techs. Maybe there is the real problem when the instructors do not teach proper operation and explain the rules.
Here we have a problem just like many have described and when this problem is chemically impaired it is really a problem. We are making recordings and trying to ignore the obnoxious operator. However that makes a couple of "hams" upset that we will not acknowledge the interupter even though they will not answer his continued calls to them.
Answer to the problem is ???????
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AD7DB on July 16, 2003
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Used to be some guys who'd come onto the repeater in the morning, every day, and just TAKE OVER. They wouldn't leave room for anyone else to jump in, and if you were in a conversation with someone else when these guys showed up, your QSO was over. The repeater owner had to have a little chat with them, eventually banned them. They moved to another machine. I still hear them over there, they're still doing it.
Another ham had a unique non-vanity callsign, I'll call it KB7LID (in order to protect his identity), and since his suffix formed a word he'd always identify as "K B 7 Lid." Every time. One day he ceased doing that and has identified properly ever since. We learned that the repeater owner had a chat with the guy over the phone.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE4MOB on July 16, 2003
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Gee...I just clicked on Phineas' profile. Check out that email address...sure looks like a call to me!!!
"Do ye research before ye start flaming someone, lest ye look like a fool."
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KX8N on July 16, 2003
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A "private" PL tone won't keep anyone from using a repeater. I have an Icom T90A, and an Icom 2100H, and both have a feature that will search PL tones on a toned repeater while someone is having QSO, and it will stop searching and disply the tone frequency when it finds it. About 2 minutes work, and you have the PL for any repeater. I've done it for a couple of repeaters that weren't in the repeater directory or listed anywhere on the internet.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE4ZHN on July 16, 2003
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Bruce, is it possible for your club members or your group to use simplex? Its clear to me that this guy has a thick skull, and no amount of talking to this character is going to make him see the light. I have encountered this a few times as well on 75 mtrs. I have found that usually the best way to eliminate these types is to simply ignore them. They WILL go away when the fun factor is gone. If your group switched to simplex, his effectivness on an HT (assuming hes using an HT) would be almost nothing. He cant kerchunk simplex, and he also will be too weak to affect simplex communications between your groups. The guy sounds like he needs help, but its not up to other hams to be his shrink! If simplex operation is not possible, then perhaps if the group got together and agreed to simply ignore this clown, dont even speak his call, name or anything at all about him. The more attention you give him, the more he feeds off it. I bet right now hes reading Eham and laughing his hiney off. These types are desperate for attention, they crave it badly. Unless you have DF`ed him and can prove it is in fact him kerchunking your machine, you really have no violations to nail him for. Being ignorant is not a violation! Perhaps a letter from Riley would wake this dude up? Who ever is the control operator of that repeater does have the right to prohibit ANYONE they see fit to for whatever reason. If this joker is told he is not allowed to use the machine, and continues to do so, this is a violation, and Riley can and most likely will take action against this clown. No, a repeater control op does NOT own the frequency pair the box is on, BUT he or she is responsible for the machines operation and they can run it any way they see fit so long as its by the rules. If some idiot is on the box breaking rules, then the control op is FULLY within his / her rights to shun this individual. Has the repeater control op shut down the machine on this guy? It IS in fact the control operators responsibility to shut down his machine if someone is on it jamming, or breaking rules! Also, there is in fact NO rule saying you HAVE to let in a break UNLESS its an emergency! Sure, to do so is simple courtesy, but if its a known troublemaker, you DONT have to allow him to break in! Simply inform this individual that the frequency is in use so please QSY. Then, if he still tries to break in and be obnoxious, you DO have a willful interference case against him. Make sure its on tape and properly documented! If all he does is "kerchunk" the box all day long, perhaps someone should take time to DF him and make sure its all properly documented so you have a nice case of malicious interference to send to Riley H. I like the posters who suggested a good ole fashioned asswhoopin! Its a great idea, but unfortunatly its also illegal to do, so that rules that one out. (not that a good ole fashioned asswhoopin wouldnt be in order here!)Theres lots of ways to deal with jammers and fools, but just keep in mind that giving them attention is NOT the right way to get rid of them! The more these individuals know they are irritating to someone, the longer they will hang around. Sounds like the guy is just plain lonely and is trying too hard to fit in, but if hes been talked to by several people and still continues this irritating behavior, its probably best to just write him off and ignore him. He will tire of talking to himself! I recall a case here in Florida where someone was banned from a repeater due to a personality clash with one of the members of the sponser club. This person was warned by Riley H that if in fact he tried to operate on that repeater again, his ticket would be pulled, and he would get fined, so I know it can be done if this guy becomes too much of a pest. It sounds to me like you have been more then patient of this charcters actions for way too long. The only effective way to deal with this type is to just shut them off.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K0RGR on July 16, 2003
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I'm looking for an 'easy way out' for a similar problem in our area.
We have an OT in our area who seems to enjoy operating on the local repeater after having had way too much firewater. I am not sure if the problem is really alcohol or an underlying medical problem - he is in his mid-60's so it is not senility.
He breaks into conversations and even controlled nets and rambles on until he times out the machine. He isn't violating any rules - maybe we need one that prohibits operating while intoxicated!
This guy is very friendly and has an opinion on everything - did you know you can work the world on 2 meters using the grayline method? He is an old time Extra Class, too. He often has something interesting to say, but often times it just comes out as a form of "... I really love you guys ...".
I think that our repeater activity really takes a sharp drop when this fellow's been on the air. It is not pleasant to deal with a roaring drunk, even if he is sometimes amusing. I cringe when he answers people coming in through Echolink - I wonder what the rest of the world thinks of our little city?
His behavior improved for a long time, but lately, he seems to be self-medicating way too much again.
I'm hoping that some of our senior hams will have a chat with him about this, but I may end up doing it myself. He needs to lock up the microphone when he's been drinking, or get medical help if it's not what it sounds like.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by W5HTW on July 16, 2003
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There are a lot of people with nothing to say, but they love to say it anyway. And there are reasons. Some of them simply can't communicate, and I am not talking about radio. Some of them are intimidated by people who know more. Some of them stumble around with meaningless "uh, well, uh, yeah, uh" because they really are having a hard time putting words together. Some of them do so because it is habit. Some of them have emotional problems and are not intending to be a pain in the butt, but this is the only way they know to socialize. Nearly all of these possibilities (and others) fit your opening description of the fellow you describe.
Some of them shouldn't have entered ham radio anyway, and we wonder how they passed even the simple test. We got into this because we decided that if you could draw a breath you were not only entitled to a ham ticket, you were defintely supposed to get one, whether or not you were interested. We are too politically correct to admit there are some people who simply don't belong in this hobby, for various reasons, but we decided to modify the hobby so they could get into it anyway. And then we pushed them to do so.
I have to ask, how have you proved this is the fellow who is kerchunking the repeater, and would that proof stand up in front of an ALJ with the FCC? Perhaps he has admitted it? Perhaps someone has been at his home and watched him do it? Perhaps you have DF'ed him?
I would want to be sure, first of all, that he was the guilty party, and secondly, that he has the emotional capability to even understand what ham radio is all about. Having determined that, I would have a representative of the repeater group politely lay down the law with him, preferably in person, in a recorded meeting (openly, with his knowledge) and with the date on the tape. In a second meeting, if needed,I would advise him what the first meeting covered, and would present a proposed letter to the FCC complaints division, for him to read and acknowledge that he understands it will be sent off if these actions continue.
What I suspect, though, is you have a person who lacks the mental capacity to understand what he is doing, and to communicate in words with anyone. If that is true, you may have a very hard time getting rid of him, unless someone can convince him going fishing is far more exciting.
ed
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KD6NXI on July 16, 2003
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Jamming is when 150 frikking idiots crowd into 150 khz of bandwidth calling SEEQUE CONTEST SEEQUE CONTEST over and over and over again... but yes your fellow does seem to be several kinds of idiot wrapped into one.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N6AJR on July 16, 2003
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Is there an OO (official observer)in your area, perhaps an Official Notice that he is under scrutiny will slow him down.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N9AVY on July 16, 2003
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Looks like you got a lot of good suggestions here. Unfortunately, a**whoopin' wasn't one of them.
The repeater owner should have a little one-on-one chat with him. If that doesn't work then perhaps something legal is called for.
If the guy is 30 years old and still lives with his mother; then, he probably needs friends and maybe a shrink. We've had a couple like him on our local repeater and one straightened out while the other went on to others hobbies.
Try the serious suggestions first and then resort to "other legal methods".
Jerry n9avy
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by W4NTI on July 16, 2003
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A repeater group can make a repeater 'private'. This is perfectly legal. I would suggest you select a sub-audable tone and keep it amongst your members.
Also...he may indeed be guilty of ' harassing' This is actionable under part 97, find a official observer and sick him on this guy.
The 'kerchunking' is definite jamming. Again get your OO and track him down. Document and tape it all. The OO knows what to do with it.
And there is NO LAW or RULE saying you have to acknowledge a break or talk with someone you do not want to.
Dan/W4NTI
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KA4P on July 16, 2003
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Sounds like "Sam" needs to find a hot chick to hang with. That way he would spend less time on the radio.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4YJR on July 16, 2003
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>>Sounds like "Sam" needs to find a hot chick to hang with<<
I don't know KA4P, if the guy still lives at home with momma, or worse yet, maybe he's like that Normal Bates fella' in the movie Psycho, I'd advise women to stay away.
73
Dave
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N0TONE on July 16, 2003
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Sounds like "Sam" is just a Santa Cruz stoner dude who's had way too many amphetimines coursing through his veins.
I think you just have to tolerate him - he's handicapped by too many years of drugs.
If you want to get mean and nasty, have the repeater trustee write a letter to him and request that he not use the repeater. You HAVE told him you don't want him on the machine, haven't you? If not, then it's not really a private repeater.
Anyway, after the first letter, if he still uses the private machine, wait 30 days and send the second letter, with a copy to Riley Hollingsworth.
After 30 days, send a letter to Riley. It only has to say "our control op asked him to not use the machine. He is still using it." The control op doesn't NEED a reason - the FCC has, several times in the past, agreed that private repeaters are OK. On this third letter, you copy "Sam". Riley will get after him.
Sam sounds a lot like a guy I heard in Concord one day while driving through. This guy was drunk and rambling on about some interaction he'd already had with Riley.
AM
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4OKV on July 16, 2003
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If the person in question does indeed live with his parents, have you thought about talkingto them. It might help.
KG4OKV
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N0JZQ on July 16, 2003
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Leave the whining to QRZ.com. I always go to eHam.net for good info and help. Can't the local hams figure this one out and handle it. Does it pump up the ego to start a post like this and then see how many will reply?
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WB5UAG on July 16, 2003
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In two different cities, I have been part of a reapeater group that was laid low by a handicapped ham. Very little casual conversation goes on, on each of those repeaters now. I have listened to the scanner during the day and there is not any activity. Someone will break the repeater and this ham immediately goes back to them. He cannot help with directions, but he can talk. It is like have a conversation with yourself. I do not find it fun. I have been listening when a ham will come on and call another ham. When the handi-ham jumps in and calls to the 1st ham, he is ignored. The handi-ham has not a big clue that he has worn out most of his welcome in both these towns. The repeaters are open repeaters. We take it to mean that they are open to everyone. The area is too big for simplex communication.
It has driven many of us to use our cell phones more and more. I could not tell you the last time I turned a 2-meter radio on either in the shack or mobile. I have almost forgotten how to communicate through a repeater. Thankfully I do enjoy HF but I do miss a circle of good friends in a round robin on the reapeater. Ham radio is this handi-hams outlet to establish friendship and it has worn thin on 2-meters.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1CJS on July 16, 2003
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N0JZQ: You say you come to e-ham for good info and help? You say leave the whining to QRZ?
My friend, the only thing on most of these threads is whining and complaining.
E-ham just happens to be more varied and broader in scope than the other sites. But, I submit that if you don't want the whining you just read the articles and ignore the answers to them! ;-)
73!
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AE6KS on July 16, 2003
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I live in the same area as AC6DN and operate on the same repeaters with the ham in question. Yeah, he's an irritation, boreing to listen to, and difficult to ignore. I'm one of the few that will talk to him on various repeaters. That's because I have a relative with an autistic daughter and I recognize many of the same personality problems.
Said ham has been on the local repeaters for about 5 years. That should be a clue that he's not going to just go away. He's a member of several radio clubs, attends events, field day, activities, maintenance, and helps out where possible. In other words, he's not vindictive and he is trying to fit in. If there's any "jamming", it's not intentional.
Unfortunately, said ham's inability to communicate properly had resulted in mixed reactions among the local hams that range from outright hostility to passive indifference. Several people, including me, have discussed the problems with him. In all cases, he became almost tolerable for a few days, and subsequently reverted back to his old bad habbits. Apparently, he has a long term learning retention problem.
Once upon a time, I've been told that Amateur Radio is partly about public service. Hams are suppose to devote some time to assisting those that might benifit from their presence. Yet, here is a ham that could certainly benifit from some assistance, hand holding, and some clues. Instead, he's met with everything but assistance. Turn him in to the FCC? Who's gonna benifit from that? Are you part of the solution, or part of the problem?
Oh yeah, since there's no communications happening, it's not jamming. You gotta have two to tango, er... to be jamming.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KB9YNB on July 17, 2003
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Bruce,
I think AE6KS's post gives you your answer. It seems like the only thing that works with the ham in question is to be patient, yet firm with him. If he is truly autistic, Ham radio may be one of his only "outlets" of communication.
His behavior seems to improve when people deal directly with him, even if it is only for a week. His behavior declines when people try to exclude him, like when he was not invited to use the other repeater.
If his behavior does improve with some encouragement, you may be able to use the old behavior modification techniques of praising desirable behavior while ignoring (or technically, punishing) undesirable behavior. (Hmmm... is Ryan married to a counselor? Maybe :^)
Is this your job? no. Is this your responsibility? no. Is this a way you might get back your repeater? maybe. Is this a way you'll feel better about than turning to the FCC? Probably. Could you make a positive difference in this guy's life? You betcha, and you probably already have.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Ryan KB9YNB
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AB0TJ on July 17, 2003
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KX2S: Have you ever noticed that most of those people that have pseudonyms are subscribers? I think that gives them more right to post than those that did use callsigns, but never paid a cent (like me, but that will change soon, I hope. And, yes, I know you are a subscriber, too.)
73,
Alex AB0TJ
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC9ASI on July 17, 2003
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WAZZUP, K3UD:
IF my repeater is coordinated (mine isn't, but the one in question at the heart of this discussion is), and an uncoordinated station is transmitting on the output frequency at the same time that the repeater is transmitting, they are interfering with ME. They must take action to not interfere (this is what the FCC and the various frequency coordinators seem to say, anyway. Specifically they usually talk about repeater-repeater interference, however the same rules will apply to ANY amateur transmitter interfering with a coordinated repeater).
So yes, you can operate simplex on a repeater's input and output... legally... however if you are causing interference to the users of the repeater, you are expected to stop. (the expectation is that repeaters are not frequency agile, but your station is, so you COULD QSY...)
I also have a feeling that if a station operator is informed by the control operator of a coordinated repeater station that they are interfering with operation of the repeater, the FCC will side with the repeater control operator.
I also have a feeling that if the control operator is unreasonable about who can and can't use the repeater, they will lose their coordination, which will effectively remove their "preferred status" on a frequency, and so both the repeater and the other station would be equally responsible for resolving interference. Essentially, on equal footing. So, that other operator can say that the repeater is interfering with them... and they'd be right and justified to seek enforcement against the repeater operator.
Again, repeaters are not public resources.. they are private stations. Most repeater operators are magnanimous enough to share their station (it may even be a requirement for coordination), but they also have the right to refuse access to anybody.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC9ASI on July 17, 2003
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K3UD, WAZZUP:
Yes, the input and output frequencies are available... as long as they're not used to interfere. That's not the case here, from the sound of things.
What can I do about it?
Certified letter to the operator who is causing the interference with a carbon to the local Official Observer or FCC office.
Say "Sam.. is that you making all those illegal unidentified transmissions? Glad I'm not jeopardizing my license like that. KF6... from KC9ASI" after the kerchunks.
Call the appropriate police, and ask for an officer to accompany you while you go talk to Sam. (In this neck of the woods, it's called a "Keeper of the Peace". Essentially, they just stand there and keep anyone from getting hurt.) What to say? "Sam, On numerous occasions over the past (n) weeks, my repeater has been subject to interference from illegal unidentified radio transmissions. Using radio direction finding equipment, I have localized the source of these emissions to this premises. You are to stop making transmissions on (frequency) which activate the approved and coordinated repeater system KC9ASI." Now you also have a witness that you told him to stop.. a witness whose testimony is fairly credible in court. (If you can't get a police officer to accompany you, I'd suggest taking a few of the "big" people on the repeater. Be they the primary users (it always seems there are a few "regulars" on a repeater), the board members of a club which sponsors the repeater... whatever.
Basically, tell him to stop, document that you told him to stop, and when he doesn't stop, involve the authorities that can revoke his license. After they've revoked his license and he still doesn't stop, they can take his transmitting equipment, fine him substantially, and generally make his life miserable.
Is this extreme? Yes. Do I encourage it? No. But it may be necessary, as apparently "re-education" hasn't worked.
(My repeater only goes on when I need it, and usually on different frequencies each time, so that people aren't expecting to find it in a certain place, easing my responsibility to assure transmissions are in compliance with FCC rules. I rarely even turn it on anymore... but this doesn't help the average repeater at a remote site under automatic control. All you can really do for this is to add provision to remotely monitor the input side, even while repeating is disabled, and turn off the transmitter at the first sign of trouble. Turn it back on after the "kerchunking" transmissions stop... and so on.)
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 17, 2003
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KC9ASI:
You don't own a real repeater, do you.
If your repeater is not coordinated, you cannot expect any protection at all, from anyone.
If you have a user that is in violation of the FCC rules, the control operator can shut the repeater down, but you need to remember that you do not own the frequency, it is public domain.
You cannot discriminate, all users must be allowed to use the repeater as long as they are following the rules. You can of course limit options such as auto-patch, dvr functions etc but if these are members only, then you need to open membership to all.
You keep saying that you can refuse access to anyone, I do not agree. If you take this stance, your repeater will become a very large target for every person that wants to harass the owner. You do not own a frequency, it is to be shared with all that are licensed for this spectrum, it is public domain. A "private autopatch" is not a repeater, it is an "auxiliary station".
If someone is talking on the output, and your uncoordinated repeater comes up, your repeater is causing harmful interference and must be prevented from interfering.
You need to be extremely careful making accusations on the air.
Perhaps you did not know, but the ARRL OO has NO ENFORCEMENT POWER.
The POLICE cannot do anything, it is a CIVIL matter. But if the user SHOOTS one of your friends for trespassing or physical threats, that is a different story. I would - me personally - would ASSUME that if a few big people were to visit me in the middle of the night, I would take that as a physical threat.
So if you go visiting a user with a "few big people", you will be in jail in the morning sitting next to your few big friends, then we will get to read about YOU in WorldRadio.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 17, 2003
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K0RGR
Tape record the person, send it to him when he is sober. We had a simular situation... that person has never been on the repeater again.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC2SSB on July 17, 2003
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Well, you could always build a very low power transmitter, tuned to the output frequency of the repeater and attach it to the guy's house, as close to his antenna as possible. Be sure to hook up a good battery so it'll last a while.
Oops.. did I just post that in a public forum? ;)
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC9ASI on July 17, 2003
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WAZZUP:
I understand that without coordination, I have no protection against interference, other than what is provided in Part 97 and people's good conscience.
I agree that I generally use my equipment as an auxiliary station rather than as a repeater.
>If you have a user that is in violation of the FCC rules, the control operator can shut the repeater down, but you need to remember that you do not own the frequency, it is public domain.
This is certainly not in dispute. Any amateur may transmit on any frequency their license class allows, subject to (1) not interfering with other stations, (2) any agreements they have entered into (i.e. "I won't transmit on 14 Mhz anymore if you don't take away my license, Mr. FCC").
>You cannot discriminate, all users must be allowed to use the repeater as long as they are following the rules. You can of course limit options such as auto-patch, dvr functions etc but if these are members only, then you need to open membership to all.
I'll disagree here. You can discriminate, BUT it's not a good idea to do so. Certainly a club-owned repeater can say "Only Club Members may use this machine for general communications." Is it courteous to allow others to do so? YES. Is it probably the right and proper and "good amateur practice" thing to do to allow any duly licensed person access to the basic functions of the repeater? YES. Is it mandated by FCC ruling that you can't say "I don't like you. You're not allowed to use my repeater station anymore."? Not to my knowledge. BUT SUCH THINGS ARE DISCOURAGED.
>You keep saying that you can refuse access to anyone, I do not agree. If you take this stance, your repeater will become a very large target for every person that wants to harass the owner.
Yes, it will. If you take this stance at whim, you will probably lose coordination, and what little protection it offers.
>If someone is talking on the output, and your uncoordinated repeater comes up, your repeater is causing harmful interference and must be prevented from interfering.
Agreed.
>Perhaps you did not know, but the ARRL OO has NO ENFORCEMENT POWER.
I did know this. However, my understanding is that alerting the OO to possible infractions on FCC rules is an appropriate "first step". That way, the OO can make their report, and the FCC eventually gets alerted to it, and there's some generally neutral third party involved.
>The POLICE cannot do anything, it is a CIVIL matter. But if the user SHOOTS one of your friends for trespassing or physical threats, that is a different story. I would - me personally - would ASSUME that if a few big people were to visit me in the middle of the night, I would take that as a physical threat.
The only reason I would involve the Police in visiting "Sam" is to have a neutral third party present at the interaction to prevent any violence, or later allegation of violence or illegality.
>So if you go visiting a user with a "few big people", you will be in jail in the morning sitting next to your few big friends, then we will get to read about YOU in WorldRadio.
I was unclear in my wording. By "few big people" I meant commonly heard voices on the repeater. If the bulk of the repeater users send a delegation to go and tell Sam that he's doing it wrong, and would he please either do it right or stop transmitting, perhaps he'll get the message. I officially (and unofficially) discourage vigilante violence as a general course of action.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 17, 2003
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KC9ASI:
Until your license says "146.34 and 146.94" only, you do not have EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to that pair.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WA2JJH on July 17, 2003
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although KA4KOE's solutions are funny, and would work!!!
One problem...The Constitution!
DPL would hold him off longer. If he has a sevice monitor, well that idea will not fly either.
You can take photo's of his spectra with time stamped video in front of his QTH.
Maybe the FCC will take this NUT JOBS equipment and ticket away.
You might want threaten to get him arrested as an E.D.P. Emotionally disturbed person.
Hope you find some solution thst works and is legal!
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KA9VOI on July 18, 2003
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Advise that has been given hear could land this man to be a rich one, and to that he could own the repeater and all your expensive equipment. Simply put
"Ignore the Ignornace, and it will indeed go away". Patience is a virtue and always pays offs. Remember, it takes two to argue, and he who argues with himself has only himself to blame for the comments he recieves. Let him play, in time when no one acknowledges him, he'll go away. I spend alot of time on the hf bands, and am subject to lids tunning up on the air, or creating intentional interence, we don't acknowledge it, an it indeed goes away. Remember, advise given should be to the benefit of all. Good Luck!
Mathew
KA9VOI
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K8LEA on July 18, 2003
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It looks like some people really woke up to this one....
Locally, we had a guy who was a little disconnected (but not to the degee described). He finally put up his own repeater....
Having said that, there's no way to protect a DCS or PL these days - most people have radios that can scan for the proper codes in a few seconds once there's some activity on the channel. That's not going to help like it used to unless he just doesn't know how to do it.
If the guy's got real mental problems, there may be a "caregiver" involved who could help. If he's just an [expletive deleted], though, it's going to take some more inventive work.
Noting the "tell him he can't use your repeater or the FCC will come a calling", here's a couple of stories:
About 30 years ago some friends of mine and I started a mobile patrol service. Funds being tight, and equipment being fairly easy to come by, we were using Channel 3 on the CB for communications. (I had 2M in the car, too - the autopatch came in handy once in a while.)
Once a few of the local idiot's got the idea that were were serious, and not some kids, we got fair cooperation.
Except for one guy who decided to make our lives miserable.... Changing channels wasn't an option (crystals in HT's!), so we decided to smoke him out. About a week of transmitter hunting got us a good solid fix. He was giving us trouble that night by having his son walk around the neighborhood with an HT and carrying on a conversation that was a little insulting to Law Enforcement in general, when the kid noticed a green '73 Rambler with about a dozen antennas, including a DF loop. That's when I broadcast the guy's address....
End of that problem....
Some time later a guy who ran a grocery store a ways out of town was making a nuisance of himself in a similar way. We politely made the usual threats, and he vanished. Our 27mhz AM business license turned up a little later, and we moved to that. Guess what grocery guy was sitting on our channel.... And his call was of the "Super Chicken" variety, too....
Too good to resist, since we already knew where he was.... I parked in a gas station across the street from his store with that same Rambler and kind of let on that we were out there. A buddy of mine joined in with a van that made my antenna farm look like I hadn't bothered (no markings on either), and then a Deputy came up in a fully marked unit, at which point we came out of the van and greeted him like a friend (he was [grin]).
End of that problem.....
Stu K8LEA
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by N7JI on July 19, 2003
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Honestly, it sounds as though he's very, very, very bored. He had enough smarts to pass a technicians' license exam (which probably 1/3 of Americans wouldn't be capable of doing) but socially he might just not "get it."
(you did say he lives at home)
I wonder what would happen if someone answered his "KF6... listening" with a reply, and then all YOU said was, "well, uh, you know, uh, well..."
and see if he comments about it.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WA2JJH on July 19, 2003
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Another "soft" approach for jamming that I have seen work well is this.
Just say hey, turn the radio off. Wait 30 minutes then come back and identify with your call, and join us.
We will not remember your signal.
However it sounds like the authors case is too weak for this "soft" approach.
73 MIKE
Maybe this guy will get his act together with therapy
and/or medication.Or he will grow up in his time frame.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K8NQC on July 19, 2003
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While state and regional repeater councils have been given limited authority in managing conflicts between repeater stations, they have little authority to deny licensed amateurs from using frequencies for which they have earned the right to transmit. Only the FCC, with reason and by due process may do this. If a repeater owner adds toned access to the repeater, a station using the tone to kerchunk or interfere with the repeater is in violation since they are causing intentional interference.
The objection to a user based on content, so long as the communication is not threatning nor obscene, is a weak complaint. Such complaints are not valid since content on amateur radio, other than emergency traffic, is by definition of such low value that it does not justify the use of commercial means of communication. Just because a fellow is not to your intellectual standards or if his interests are different from yours does not block his right to transmit.
Many countries frown at the discussion of religion or politics on ham radio. Those types of communication are permtted in the USA as are a broad range of topics. I know we all cringe at the sound of 73's or seventy thirds but we have no right to tell another amateur that they may not say those things.
We must be patient with those of limited content capacity.
73, Bill
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC9ASI on July 19, 2003
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WAZZUP:
>Until your license says "146.34 and 146.94" only, you do not have EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to that pair.
I never said I did.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC8VWM on July 20, 2003
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I believe the original topic for discussion in this topic thread is "When is bad radio operating (operation) jamming?
Firstly, I would like to point out that jamming is usually considered as intentional interference to a communicating station. I don't think intentional jamming requires any further clarification or discussion citing various F.C.C. rules or violation of codes etc. to determine if this is in fact a practice that is unacceptable.
The second part of this topic minces words a little. While jamming is illegal, bad operating practices on the other hand may be socially unacceptable but not neccesarily be illegal.
Clearly, if there is an individual jamming a local repeater, then there is no half-way point of intrepretion of this fact. Jamming a repeater is not a subject open for re-evalution.
In terms of choosing a "course of action," many users in this forum seem to have many "innovative" methods of dealing with such individuals.
I would like to point out the following:
1.Amateur radio operators are not law enforcement officers or an extension of the F.C.C.
2. Amateur Radio operators are recreational hobbyists that promote goodwill, and encourage others to engage in the hobby.
3. In society there are bad drivers, rude people at shopping malls, teenagers that do stupid things we have already said and done, and finally- there are amateur radio operators that demonstrate poor operating practices.
4. It takes a bigger person to be patient and accept certain facts in every day life.
The real heros here are those that try to "assist" these individuals with their operating practices by taking a teaching approach.
I dont think the truck driver style approach of delivering a can of proverbial "W-ass" is in good taste with the traditions of our recreational hobby.
Any other blood letting approach in dealing with this matter would only lead me to believe we are practicing in ch.19 mentality, and on their terms.
Need I say more?
73
KC8VWM
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by WAZZUP on July 20, 2003
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Since you do not have exclusive rights to a frequency or pair, then you have no right to tell someone to get off a frequency of a pair. Your rights are the ability as a repeater owner/control op to turn the repeater OFF if someone is doing something that you do not approve. If they are engaged in illegal activity, then call the cops, if it is a violation of FCC pt97, report them to the FCC, but if it is just chatter that you do not approve or it is a user that you do not like -- TURN OFF THE REPEATER.
To be compliant with the FCC rules, you must have the ability to do so anyway.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1CJS on July 20, 2003
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Just a general observation:
"Is it mandated by FCC ruling that you can't say "I don't like you. You're not allowed to use my repeater station anymore."? Not to my knowledge. BUT SUCH THINGS ARE DISCOURAGED."
Since the license issued by the FCC for that repeater is in fact issued to a trustee who is ultimately responsible for the machine, It is in the trustee's power to prohibit any person from operating on the repeater. It has been said time and again that the repeater is just like one of the trustee's radios. In case of violation of the rules and regs, it would be more likely the trustee who would be called down to answer for the violation, not the operator who actually committed the violation.
This is the reason most smart trustees have permitted control operators to have the control codes to shut down the machine in case of willful, prolonged violation of the rules and regs.
Peace and 73!
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1CJS on July 20, 2003
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KC8VWM,
Essentially, you are correct, but you did not consider one point:
"Amateur radio bands are the only bands where the operators are trusted to police themselves."
That has been one of the long standing privileges that we, as amateurs, enjoy. Your ideas of just ignoring the lids until they stop have some merit, but as responsible ham operators, we do have a duty to report continuing interference to the proper authorities.
Offering an elmering approach to the offender might, in this day and age bring his wrath on the offerer.
Letting him continue with his liddish behavior promotes a "let the other guy do it" attitude, one of many that brought such disarray to the 11 meter crowd.
If we do not police our own bands, we may lose the confidence of the FCC and the privilege to do so in the future.
Just my 2 cents worth!
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by W3RAZ on July 21, 2003
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K3UD Said: "Announcing that he is monitoring the channel is not a violation, and at one time was considered SOP for 2 meter FM work."
As far as I know, it still is! This is actually a smart way to generate something we like to call activity(or do you like hearing nothing when monitoring the local repeater?)! Breaking into a conversation is allowed by FCC rules. If there is no net involved, then welcome him in. If you get bored by it, sign clear. BE CIVIL on air! If you want to talk to him offline and teach him (if he's receptive) a more professional way to operate then go ahead, but do not berate a ham or declare him Persona Non Grata. As long as he's operating legally, then he's ok! If you can PROVE he's the one Kerchunking the machine by DFing his station, then fine, but don't you EVER tell me you have never kerchunked a machine without IDing! We all have and are all guilty of it at one time or another (is it on or not??). In fact, thansk to this thread, I may make a change in the way I do somethings. BTW, you do not have to id at the beginning of transmissions. Every 10 min and at the end of the QSO are the only requirement. We had a ham who displayed similar operating habits and after a bit of time, he improved. We were all a little rusty. Some of us longer than others, but we did not become the operators that we have become by NOT MAKING MISTAKES! If he's doing things that are blatantly illegal, thats one thing. If he's just operating a little "off", then why report him? We berate him on the air? If you want to talk to someone, sometimes you got to talk to folks that you may not normally talk to. You never know. You may make a friend.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AC6DN on July 21, 2003
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Well thanks for all the advice.
I thought I’d comment on some of it:
- Hear in California, if any, “midnight ass kicking,” went on, WE ALL, would be the ones in trouble. All would be arrested, we would have to got to, anger management classes, at our own expense (very expensive).
- Hear were more likely to solve through litigious solutions, i.e. to sue.
- In L.A. (Ca.) where there are many totally closed and private repeaters, persons have been served, i.e. sued. The FCC HAS stated that closed repeaters are within FCC rules. And persons using such repeaters with out permission, are in violation.
- Between my self and 8-12 other, “Big HAM’s,” we all together have spent more than 80 Hours, mentoring HIM.
- We do use simplex…
- Regarding “he's handicapped by too many years of drugs,” he’s naturally aspirated ;=)
- I am one of the Board members of this Club. I’m seen as I’m being unreadable, because I don’t, “just deal with it.” - my problem of being annoyed by HIM. I have 8-10 people complaining to ME about HIM. The other Board members are less willing to take any actions. They see it as a problem that the complainers have…
- The Local OO, is of the, same type, as the other club board members (see above), and won’t take any action…
- The Owner of the closed repeater has backed down and decided to allow HIM to use his repeater, he did not want to be unfair?!?!
- “I wonder what would happen if someone answered his "KF6... listening" with a reply, and then all YOU said was, "well, uh, you know, uh, well..."” – Vary Funny idea!!!
Bruce
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KI4BPK on July 22, 2003
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Just curious, as a newbie to ham (check callsign), is there an FAQ or some other document availiable online outlining accepted etiquette? I spend most of my time just listening, hoping to get the hang of it. Heaven forbid I be instantly labeled a 2-meter redneck.
Thanks,
Eddie
KI4BPK
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by AC6DN on July 22, 2003
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KI4BPA, I agree. We need a HAM FAQ Protocol page!!!
I think we should use this opportunity of discussion to have a FAQ page on HAM radio protocol, hear on Eham. We decided to have it be subject of a club meeting, locally.
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC8WCW on July 23, 2003
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W3RAZ: That was very well stated. A lot of wisdom in a short and straight forward post.
KC8WCW
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KE4SKY on July 23, 2003
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We have a couple like that. Our tactic is to take them to breakfast and have a friendly chat like with a few brothers from the lodge. If that doesn't work, you lock out his transmitter fingerprint and pretty soon he will run out of money to buy new HTs.
Or an an alternative you can use a daily DTS set up like a one-time pad with a formula, use the 0000 UTC K index from WWV multiplied by the repeater input frequency and divided by square root of the Julian date, or something like that... Just kidding.
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KG4PTZ on July 23, 2003
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Hey N0TONE, I'm just curious about something.
Sam sounds a lot like a guy I heard in Concord one day while driving through. This guy was drunk and rambling on about some interaction he'd already had with Riley.
I was just wondering which Concord you were referring to. If it was Concord, VA (my home QTH), I would like to know what frequency this guy was using. I think I have a pretty good idea of who it could've been (definitely not I).
I do agree with KI4BPK on the FAQ page. It is definitely needed not just for new op's, but for some ot the old farts too.
73,
Kenny Lewis, Jr.
KG4PTZ
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When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KC8WCW on July 24, 2003
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AC6DN: somewhere in this thread, someone mentioned that there is a difference between "Jamming," or illegal operation, as opposed to bad overall operating habits.
Do we really need to acknowledge that delivery of a prefix only, does not a callsign make? That in and of itself, constitutes illegal operation. If he "ID's" with a prefix only, he didn't ID, period.
As I discovered on previous occasions, it's pointless to stress an opinion with any level of compassion on one of these threads. Two entries later, it's since forgotten. Therefore I'll keep this brief.
You can take 99 percent of these situations and promptly narrow it down to one primary underlying factor. It's no different than the typical case of "road rage," or any other behavior where an individual uses something "mechanical" to express themselves. It's called, CONTROL. In our society, there are many, many, many, individuals, who feel as though they have little to no control over any aspect of their lives. Now, there is something quite empowering about the knowledge that you can effect other individuals by simply pushing a transmit button. These types of persons are usually intrigued by the concept of creating havoc while still retaining their anonimity. It's no different, than the guy in the car who allows a couple hundred horsepower to speak for him. He's usually not man enough to say it when standing in front of you.
The worst thing you can do is to acknowledge these individuals one way or another. When you do so, particularly when you allow them to light your flame, you are in essence putting them in the driver's seat. In other words, you are empowering them. You're playing right into their hands, and giving them the exact feedback they're craving. If you want this activity to continue, there's no better way than to acknowledge it. On the other hand, there is nothing more useless to a person with control issues, than for the rest of us to totally ignore them. That way, there is no longer an incentive. It may take some time, but if all work together, eventually the incentive will be gone.
KC8WCW
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by K1CJS on July 24, 2003
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AC6DN--
If you have a local OO who won't take any action on a legitimate complaint, that OO should be reported to the section manager. When any field appointed official refuses to do the job they volunteered to do, that appointee should be investigated and possibly removed--he may not take a stand when really needed to do so!
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RE: When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
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by KI5KA on July 24, 2003
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Wow, a fella don't measure up to your standard of social skills and you wanna go beat him up. I DID notice some posts pleading for understanding, whew, you folks are BRAVE. I'm surprised that fella suggesting the beating didn't threaten you too.
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