Is 'Nothing' Better?
Bob Koerner (RobertKoernerExAE7G)
on
August 3, 2003
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OK
All those who are not League members tell us what organization you are sending your comments to, about WRC 2003, especially No-code HF access. No, eHam doesn't count.
How about BPL?
I anticipate the reason why there won't be any reasonable response to this, is because there really isn't another organization protecting and promoting ham radio.
So, how much good are you doing protecting and promoting ham radio by not supporting the one organization that does?
It is unfortunate that there aren't pro-ham radio, single issue, groups appearing to promote opposite sides of an issue before Congress and/or the FCC, like code versus no-code for HF. But, there aren't.
We are left with BPL interests versus Ham Radio interests though.
As a result, we are faced with belonging to an organization that at times may not be promulgating one's personal view.
Unfortunately, our choice seems to be to decided if all of the many facets of ham radio are best served by financially supporting The League or by no financial support for any organization, i.e. League or "Nothing".
I choose League versus Nothing as the best overall, long range interest for ham radio.
If you choose "Nothing", I hope some day you reconsider how effective nothing is...
73
Bob
PS: This thread isn't about code versus no-code.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KE4MOB on August 3, 2003
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Hmmm...you seem to think that those hams who are not members of the ARRL do "nothing" to protect ham radio.
I disagree. Any ham that transmits a signal is helping to protect ham radio. If we can show a frequency is being occupied, then it's kind of hard for the FCC to take it from us.
And as far as rulemaking goes...I send my comments directly to the FCC when the NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rule Making for the uninformed) is put up for comment.
You see, the FCC makes all these decisions based on a) what it wants and b) its' best judgement as to what the respondents to the NPRM have to say.
And the best representation one can have is to directly make their views known to the people who will be making the decisions. I don't feel comfortable (nor is it necessary) to have someone "proxy" my vote for something when I am more than capable of fully speaking my mind.
Which is better...sending my $37.00 (or whatever the acutal rate is now) to the ARRL each year and going about my business under the idea that "the ARRL will go to bat for me", or directly submitting my thoughts and concerns to the rulemaking body when the matter at hand concerns me? The latter approach makes me more involved, better informed, and more effective overall.
My voice is my voice. And I don't need the ARRL to speak for me. Granted, they do very, very, good work in some areas (Ed Hare should get a ham sainthood for the work he has done on BPL) BUT there are much more effective ways to promote and protect ham radio than blindly joining the ARRL, paying your dues, and thinking everything is hunky-dory.
And just because you don't belong to the ARRL doesn't make you less of a ham, or less supportive of ham radio overall. Actions speak louder than associations.
Steve, KE4MOB
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K0ABE on August 3, 2003
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Hi,
I think Bob is right. I hear a lot of talk about what the ARRL is and isn’t, it sounds like a darn code vs. no-code debate. It’s like MAD magazine’s Spy vs. Spy, it’s almost comical. You have to admit the ARRL is the “only game in town” no other organization has stepped up to the plate to do what the ARRL can do. As matter of fact, it seems like many organizations are affiliated in some way to the ARRL. Is there any other organization that can do what the ARRL does?
I’m a member for all the reasons…
73 Mike
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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Anonymous post on August 3, 2003
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I guess the author of this 'article' wants to beat the arrl topic to death again, and again, and again, and again,.........And if this dribble is the best argument to give money to the arrl he can come up with, it is obvious how pathetic and useless the arrl really is.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA4PTZ on August 3, 2003
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I have been an ARRL Life member for more than 20
years , unfortunately, ARRL is the ONLY HAM
organization that represents the HAM. Yes, they get
a little selfish and closed minded from time to time.
The problem is that ARRL is not run as a DEMOCRATIC
organization. They use the DEMOCRACY front to let
the members vote for petty things but not the issues
and the policies. HEY!!! ARRL What the HELL do you
think is important to HAMS ? It sure as hell will not
be determined through internal politics.
Now, I know that several folks are going to bring up
the Wayne Green Personal HAM Society, but that was
not an organization that represented HAMS, it was
Wayne's personal forum or Lobby for what
Wayne wanted, not what HAMs wanted. So , here we
are , back to the ARRL.... You can still bring up
other groups, but they were only special interest
groups and some manage to hang on by their teeth, but
they do not have the membership to make any
difference to HAMS. ARRL does. I would like to see
them involve the members in more of the HAM issues
by using POLLS, and questionaires and not relying on
whoever complains. All of the policies of ARRL
should be DEMOCRATIC not just a few.
Now, The decision is yours to make as to your votes
and your monetary support, but if you continue to
support no candidate, then you will never attain
your goals. And quite frankly , you should shut up
and quit your bitchin'.
73 - Tim
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KR4WM on August 3, 2003
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I don't see any "one person" lobbyists in Washington fighting for amateur radio. The fact of the matter is, politicians listen to lobbyists. The ARRL attempts to represent hams as "our" lobbyist. No lobbyist is free. There are few organizations who represent what the MAJORITY of hams want as well as the ARRL, so like it or lump it- the ARRL is the -ONLY- game in town that does what they do, as well as they do it. I used to lump it for personal reasons. When the bums were all thrown out of office, I rejoined. The ARRL is representing everything I want them to represent these days, and is fighting to keep what you have (and in fact, gain a little bit here and there) better than any other organization that exists today. If you are -NOT- a member of the ARRL, you're just gambling that some other, more powerful lobbyist doesn't come along and take what -they- want since you're not FINANCIALLY helping in the fight. Do what you want, but don't cry when we don't get more frequencies on 60M, lose the PRB-1 fight so you can't erect that 70 foot tower in the face of your homeowner's association, the power companies proceed with BPL and you can't hear anyone on the radio for the RFI, etc. If you -BELIEVE- amateur radio deserves to exist (and exist well), and don't donate SOMETHING to the ARRL, you should take a long, hard look in the mirror. If you don't donate to the ARRL, you're just a burden on the rest of us who do (I consider you to be freeloaders since you don't put your money where your mouth is), but we'll happily continue to bail you out.
73 all, -Web
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W2ISB on August 3, 2003
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No, nothing is not better!
Let's face facts, many hams are just plain cheap. This group will rationalize their non-membership in just about anything... but it comes back to the fact most are just plain cheapskates.
This group won't pay for anything they can for free, but they sure will complain if they don't get their free ride, for example free local repeater use.
I think we lucky to have the ARRL and the number of hams that support it. As a member I don't always agree with the ARRL, but I know we some real power and lobbying should we need it with the FCC or Congress.
I think it comes down to lead, follow, or get out the way... get involved or get lost. If you aren't a member I don't really care what you have to say.
Gerd, W2ISB
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by KR2Q on August 3, 2003
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Sir:
The reason you won't get many responses is that this was a "closed-universe" posting.
First, you limit it to non-ARRL-members (I'm breaking your criteria because I am a member and have been since 1966).
Second, you make it seem as though a lack of response to your question will "prove" your point (which is? join the ARRL?). It is clear to everyone that there are only TWO places for American hams to write to: ARRL or FCC. So this was a silly (pointless) question to ask.
As for "no code for HF access," that is already a fait accompli with the 5 wpm "requirement." Let's face it, CW at 5 wpm is HORRIBLY, AGONIZINGLY, B O R I N G. Anyone who passes that filter just to get a license is NOT going to find any love/joy/ecstasy through CW, which (for me) only started at 25 or 30 wpm. And since there is no longer any need (as in requirement) to improve to anything even close to those speeds (20wpm was close), I predict that less than 5% of new hams will be using higher speed cw, if ANY cw at all (too boring at slow speeds).
Finally (because I am a bit of a nut in this respect), if you are comparing TWO things (ARRL vs "other") the correct word to use is BETTER and not BEST. The former is for a comparion of two while the latter is for a comparison of three or more.
Doug KR2Q
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by N8UZE on August 3, 2003
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To maximize their effectiveness, I believe that a ham should do multiple things. These are (in no particular order).
1. Submit comments to the FCC via their system on all items that affect ham radio.
2. Operate radio in as many bands and modes as they can manage using the highest operating standards. One shouldn't devote their life to it though.
3. Be a member of and support the ARRL since it is the only ham organization of significant size.
4. If ARRL policies are not to one's liking, get actively involved and become an officer so as to have a stronger voice in shaping those policies.
5. If you disagree with policies but are unable to pursue political involvement, write the officers and get other like-minded hams to do the same.
6. Don't quit ARRL because you disagree with some of the policies. Always keep in mind the number of things you do agree with.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 3, 2003
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<< Which is better...sending my $37.00 (or whatever the acutal rate is now) to the ARRL each year and going about my business under the idea that "the ARRL will go to bat for me", or directly submitting my thoughts and concerns to the rulemaking body when the matter at hand concerns me? The latter approach makes me more involved, better informed, and more effective overall. >>
You actually think that your single voice is going to be more effective in Washington than an organized lobbying group who can continously and repeatedly call Representatives and lobby them?
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K0BG on August 3, 2003
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Let's not foget one improtant aspect of the ARRL; The diectors who set the policies are elected by the members.
They may be the only ball game in town, but it's your ball they're playing with.
And I suspect most of the folks who unfairly criticize the policies of the ARRL have never been in any political position. Even a lowly homeowner's association will produce a measure of what the ARRL deals with everyday.
Alan, KØBG
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by AJ5TT on August 3, 2003
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There are more good points to the ARRL verses negative. I have been able to read more on what they have done for HAM radio than any other single source. Yes, we HAMS can participate on keeping amateur radio alive. But, just a quick glance at their web site they ARE responding to issues that have the best interest in HAM radio.
-Amateur Community Responds to Potential BPL Threat.
–Donations of funds to support the ARRL effort to the BPL threat. (Besides YOU responding to the NOI.. what else is being done?)
-ARRL Emergency Communications Course – (The other option for decent documented training procedures is?)
-The league continually tries to ask the FCC for additional allocations. (What other US organizations are as visible on spectrum allocations for HAMS)?
-Amateur Radio Spectrum Protection Act of 2003. An initiative by the ARRL
-Logbook of the World (well, drop that one, no one is perfect)
The point is that if you really look at the ARRL, they are working for the HAM radio community. The above list is just a fraction of what I see the ARRL doing for the amateur community. While everything they do is not perfect, I would say that the majority of what they do, and have done, outweighs the negatives.
I have communicated to the directors and vice directors in my region. I respond to issues that interest me to the ARRL. They reply back. I have yet to find any other well-organized group to help me support amateur radio for the dollar I spend. In general, I think the ARRL is doing a good job for the majority of HAMS, who provide input.
73,
John – AJ5TT
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KD5HIY on August 3, 2003
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Is 'Nothing' Better? Reply
by W2ISB on August 3, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
No, nothing is not better!
Let's face facts, many hams are just plain cheap. This group will rationalize their non-membership in just about anything... but it comes back to the fact most are just plain cheapskates
Now I am now cheap, just not alotta money. there is a difference, i can't afford $37.00 x 2 cause that would basically make it to where i can't pay my bills
there's my two cents
KD5HIY
Chris
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by KE4ZHN on August 3, 2003
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The ARRL is doing alot for ham radio. Lets see, first they lobbied for the no code tech license.(wasnt that part of the incentive licensing program?) Then they lobbied for the elimination of the 13 and 20 wpm exams. Then they lobbied for the elimination of the novice class, the tech plus class and the advanced class license.(they called it restructuring) Oh, lets not forget how they helped us get that huge slice of spectrum on 60 mtrs.One thing in their favor is they helped us get the 12-17 mtr. bands. (probably the single best thing they have ever done to date) And now they sit back on their haunches and wait patiently for the FCC to drop the code entirely so that they can recruit more members and rake in the cash. Im sick of members of the league getting on here and whining about all the wonderful things the league is doing to save the day for amateur radio! So far, all I have witnessed of their actions is lobbying to dumb this hobby down enough so any moron with a pulse can be an extra now. Gimme a break! Each and everytime I get on the air, Im doing my little part to keep amateur radio alive. I dont need some salaried yo yo lobbying the FCC on my behalf. Especially when they seem to be interested in fattening their wallets more then anything else. If amateur radio goes away tomorrow, then its simple, find another hobby. To simply toss money at an organisation doesnt insure ANYTHING and being a league member does NOT give any guarantees that amateur radio will not die off. Once they drop the CW requirement for testing, watch what happens. The league and some of the other special interest folks like the VEC`s seem to be interested in selling us all out for one main goal.....$$$$$. Flame away, but its my opinion and Im stickin to it! Those who dont agree are entitled to their own as well. So, go ahead send the ARRL your money and keep your fingers crossed that the bands dont become a giant 11 mtrs. when all the people too LAZY to study CW and too LAZY to study the test will go into a feeding frenzy when the tests become so watered down for a ticket, a chimpanzee can become an extra class. The fine folks up in Washington will do as they please, and lobbying is nothing but legalized bribery anyway. I refuse to pay "protection money" to some bunch of clowns who want to feel important.
Rich KE4ZHN
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by N3NL on August 3, 2003
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I support the ARRL even though I disagree with them
on some ham radio issues. In addition, I send in my
own formal comments to the FCC on regulatory issues.
73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL n3nl@arrl.net
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K1CJS on August 3, 2003
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Just as the previous poster, N3NL, I realize the league doesn't back my views 100%, but they do back ham radio and its aims. As far as the reduced requirements for a license, the FCC has to take just as much of the blame. They're the ones who wanted reduced paperwork and lowered costs, so I don't believe the ARRL should have to take the entire blame for the lowering of the testing standards. As a matter of fact, the first to file for elimination of the element 1 requirement was NOT the ARRL but the NCVEC!
The ARRL is taking the higher road, asking its members their opinion and actually trying to reach a concensus based on the feelings of their members instead of just jumping in and doing what their "senior staff" wants done.
I believe they should have the support of the amateur community. If you won't join and pay the dues, tell them why instead of just throwing knives--you may be surprized at the responce from the current staff there. I have found they aren't the same as even 5 or 6 years ago.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by N3EVL on August 3, 2003
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Generally, I think we're collectively better off when we lend our support to the national organization even though we may disagree on some aspects of ARRL policy from time to time.
Yes, the dues are expensive - in other forums, a case has been made for a less expensive/non-QST membership option that would give full membership rights while saving the cost of sending out the magazine. I personally enjoy getting my QST in the mail (even the adds are nice to drool over) but much of the editorial and technical content is accessible online, usually in a more timely manner. I think the ARRL should consider this option.
Yes, KE4ZHN - but how do you *really* feel ? ;)
Seriously though, I find Rich's arguments innaccurate and unsubstantiated; we should not accuse ARRL of lining their wallets at our expense without some kind of evidence. I for one do not accept these accusations at face value.
ARRL is not perfect but I do feel that they perform a valuable role in representing us at the national level especially in dealing with the legal issues, lawyer speak etc., that most of us have neither the time nor experience to tackle. As others have said, we are still free to raise issues directly with the FCC if we wish to.
73 Pete, N3EVL
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WB5HZE on August 3, 2003
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The author's point is valid. Our politicians and government agencies- the FCC included- tend to pay attention to groups representing large numbers. Individual comments and activity are useful, but in isolation they do not carry significant weight. It is clear that the ARRL is the ONLY group representing a significant number of radio amateurs in the USA, and therefore their influence will be most significant in any proceeding. In terms of effective investment of my own lobbying $$$, I feel that the ARRL provides the most bang for the buck.
I would similarly support any similar organization that might form in the future, provided that they carried sufficient weight in terms of membership. It is not important to me- in the context of acting to protect my operating privileges- that I concur with all aspects of any given organization provided that I agree with the direction of their effort to protect the amateur radio spectrum.
I would respectfully disagree with an early reply in this post which implied that the regular use of spectrum effectively provides protection from invasion or loss. A little over a decade ago, the heavily-utilized 2 GHz microwave spectrum- the best long-haul spectrum available for industry- was in essence "sold" out from under the incumbents in favor of commercial interests (PCS) . . . despite intense lobbying efforts by industrial incumbents/ organizations with deep pockets. It is true that if spectrum is underutilized, it will be first to be targeted- but it more important to realize that as available spectrum shrinks, occupied spectrum will become a target regardless of its importance to the incumbents. Congress wants the $$$ from spectrum auctions, and they want "consumer" services such as wireless entertainment, wireless broadband, & 3G (as well as BPL) to reach the majority of their voting constituents. It will require a well-funded and concerted effort from the incumbent licensees to maintain a grip on their authorized frequencies, whether the affected spectrum is used by industry or by amateurs.
Regards . . . Ron WB5HZE
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KG4RUL on August 3, 2003
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We WILL be SOLD OUT to the HIGHEST BIDDER!!! UNLESS we put our full support behind the ARRL ---AND--- send in our OWN objections to the FCC!!! This is the ONLY chance we have got on this issue! IF $37 dollars is too much to spend for you, then this hobby is WAY TOO expensive for you. Try collecting rubber bands instead. If you value your Ham gear, which will become worthless if BPL becomes reality, DO SOMETHING NOW! Put aside your petty gripes with ARRL administration, policies, etc.
Dennis - KG4RUL
FYI - I have a medium voltage distribution power line running through my back yard. Some of you may be a lot luckier but, BPL will affect you.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AJ5TT on August 3, 2003
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Rich,
While I understand there are issues that the ARRL have supported, that have had negative results, I think that their voice can be a collective of many HAMS who make their opinions known to the ARRL.
“The ARRL is doing alot (a lot) for ham radio.” While an attempt to start with a statement leading to sarcasm, they have done a lot. In fact, more to support then destroy amateur radio.
“.(wasnt (wasn’t) that (a) part of the incentive licensing program?)” It did achieve the results to entice more people into the amateur radio community. Of course, it did bring in a few that require more assistance on “good practice”. I politely talk to those few with encouragement and guidance. I also believe that the FCC had a large part in the restructuring, right?
“huge slice of spectrum on 60 mtrs (just M or meters)” Detect a bit of more sarcasm. It was a compromise. Glad to have a little of 60M then nothing on the band.
“Im (I am) sick of members of the league getting on here and whining…” Whining? Many of the members, I speak with, are concerned over issues that effect amateur radio and participate in supporting means to address those concerns.
“So far, all I have witnessed of their actions is lobbying to dumb this hobby down enough so any moron with a pulse can be an extra now.” I was going to put something here but deleted it. It was to0 sarcastic.
“Gimme (Give me) a break! Each and everytime (every time) I get on the air, Im (I am) doing my little part to keep amateur radio alive.” I am not sure of this statement. Are you stating that you want a break because you use the spectrum and that is your only support on amateur radio spectrum protection?
“I dont (don’t) need some salaried yo yo lobbying the FCC on my behalf.” Sorry to say that the salaried yo-yo’s get more attention (produce more results) then one single non-salaried person (most cases).
“To simply toss money at an organisation (organization) doesnt (doesn’t) insure ANYTHING and being a league member does NOT give any guarantees that amateur radio will not die off.” You are correct, no guarantees. My money does give me the satisfaction that issues are being addressed through the ARRL. This is not to say that the ARRL is the only avenue of support amateur radio.
“Flame away, but its (it’s) my opinion and Im (I am or I’m) stickin (sticking) to it! “ It is good to have a conviction and commitment to amateur radio. I am sure that you provide a measure of improvement to amateur radio in your own way other than through the ARRL.
“So, go ahead send the ARRL your money and keep your fingers crossed that the bands dont (don’t) become a giant 11 mtrs. (M) when all the people too LAZY to study CW and too LAZY to study the test will go into a feeding frenzy when the tests become so watered down for a ticket, a chimpanzee can become an extra class” Ok, definitely sarcasm
“The fine folks up in Washington will do as they please, and lobbying is nothing but legalized bribery anyway. I refuse to pay "protection money" to some bunch of clowns who want to feel important.” I am assuming that the “fine folks” you are referring to, in Washington, are the lobbyists. I agree that some of the rules need to be changed with regard to the lobbyists. I do not think that the ARRL is just robbing us to line their pockets.
73,
John Taylor – AJ5TT
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by W5GNB on August 3, 2003
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Well, if the ARRL os so BAD, I guess we can always support the other groups like A.A.R.A. operated by K1MAN or perhaps the B.A.R.F. (Better Amateur Radio Federation) which is supported by the 14.313 gang......HIHIHIHI.....
I am SURE these other groups are working real hard for the BETTERMENT of our hobby!!
I think I know where my attention is going to focus!!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5JBP on August 3, 2003
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Thanks for the support. I will be posting something more in a while under a new article titile called "It seems to me". Your opinions are helpful especially when thought out and with reason. I caution you that my post is my own and not an official postion of the ARRL, staff, officers or the board of directors.
Jim Haynie, W5JBP
President, ARRL
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by KN4LF on August 3, 2003
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The ARRL has basically become useless as a lobbying organization and I really get sick and tired of it's members propagating the same old party line all over the Internet. The FCC has no respect for the ARRL and has pretty much snubbed it for years, going back to when the ARRL sued the FCC over taking away part of the 1.25 cm band years ago. Not to mention the FCC totally ignoring the ARRL on the antenna deed restrictions and CC&R's problem that is single handedly doing more to kill our radio service then anything else ever has. Funny though the lobbying organizations representing the TV broadcast industry successfully convinced the FCC to rule that deed restrictions and CC&R's can't prevent outside TV antennas and satellite dishes.
The ARRL also proved totally impotent in assisting me and other hams in battling the local power company here in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, that has refused to take care of massive QRN problems caused by it's lack of system maintenance.
Also we did not get a 2200 meter band allocation, 60 meters only has a few channels and the 40 meter QRM problem with international brodcasters is only partially resolved if we wait another 7-8 years. Plus the ARRL supports the RM-10252 that if passed will dis-enfranchise many DX'ers currently chasing DXCC on 160 meters and also how about the ARRL pig headedness against the eQSL card program, under the guise of preventing QSL card fraud, while then turning around and breathing new life into it's own defunct eQSL card type program.
If you want to see membership in the ARRL grow then maybe all "Life Members" should give up that designation for the betterment of the organization and start paying again every year for membership like most others. Then maybe the $39 per year membership fee will drop and more people will be able to afford to join. The whole life membership concept has been a disaster for the ARRL financially.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5JBP on August 3, 2003
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WOW! I did not know you was with us during each of our Washington visits. I will pay more attention as to who is in the meetings. No, an idle statement about life membership and totally incorrect. Where do you get your data?
Jim
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KG4OOA on August 3, 2003
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When I re-licensed a couple of years ago, I joined ARRL (by mistake). Now I remember the reason that I never joined ARRL before. At the best they are the benevolent dictators of ham radio. Rule number one in law school is never ask a question that you do not know the answer that will be given by they person asked. That is why only occasionally will ARRL have surveys that are of a benign in nature, such as the survey on the restructuring of the Novice/Technician Plus bands. They knew the answer before the survey hit QST.
Everything else ARRL does is through board action. Oh, yes the board members will come around to clubs and state League position on an issue but just try to present an opposing view. That will be a cold day in Hell. The board member will listen politely, restate his canned response and go away. What a ham thinks is not relevant.
I cannot give all the reasons for this. Maybe in the beginning the members were more single minded than today and as such, the founders felt no need for a democratic system. The problem is that the monster grew into what it is today. I do know, from reading ARRL's audited financial statements, which are available at the ARRL web site, the majority of the revenue is used for payroll and 401-K payments. They are not serving ham radio. These are professional amateurs making their living and huge life style at the expense of hams. I am not against salaries but $6,000,000, if I remember correctly it could be more, for an organization as small as ARRL is huge. This is 50% or more than collected revenue. This fact alone tells me they are only protecting their jobs. Now they are on the rampage begging for more donations.
In the sixties and beyond Wayne Green W2NSD tried to offer an alternate voice to ham radio. As many of you will remember he began 73 magazine, lectured and offered alternate opinions. He was also attacked in QST, at the local club meetings by the ARRL mouths and on the Air.
His publication has survived for many years but he never got a real organization going. The reason for that is unknown. Maybe he made a living at it and was happy where it went. This is possible but I think it was lack of proper planning and funding.
If hams want a true voice on the issues today, they need an organization that will listen and represent them. The problem is with the hams themselves. When it comes to issues they don't want to take the time. Then comes the true meaning of HAM, Haven't Any Money. Spend a fortune on a rig; sure. Donate to get a new organization going, forget it. Now the next problem is apathy. If it takes time from playing radio they won't!
Well if you want a true voice in the issues and concerns of ham radio, take the time and organize, fund it and then take some time away from the rig to tell the new organization what you think and support it.
Until this happens, I'll just post my opinions with FCC.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K9FE on August 3, 2003
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Those that do not believe that the ARRL is trying have not kept up with the recent FCC actions. The ARRL petition to restrict part 15 devices on 23-24ghz was dismissed. That may not bother many of you, but the ARRL is fighting to keep Part 15 devices without being allowed to exceed the current legal ratings of a Part 15 device. So on 23-24 GHZ it may not be a problem, but if we do not fight it there then the next SAVI on 70cm has a better chance. I bet THAT will concern many of you. It was rejected this time and going to be submitted again with changes deemed necessary, mainly by lawyers (many of which donate time). The ARRL is the ONLY group fighting for this. I cannot afford to send a lawyer or even a lobbyiest by myself, but the ARRL does using funds we provide as a group. I don't think the 313 gang is doing much about it, or the gangs on 75 meters. Those that think they are getting RICH had better realize that almost all the full time staff took large pay cuts to work for the ARRL. Many are volunteers that do it because they love your hobby.
How much have you dropped at a hamfest for a handful of connectors and misc parts or a couple beers at a ball game? The membership fee is a very cheap way to help support the fight. That is only the start...think about it.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA4MJF on August 3, 2003
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Rich,
The Incentive Licensin' proposal was in the mid 60s and
came to pass in 66 or 67 (not sure, I was in the 'Nam
and had my mind on other things). It made one
move up through the ranks to acquire all priviledges.
Had it not been for that I and many other hams would probably still be Generals.
I think that you are referrin' to the Disincentive
Plan of the late 90s that gave the more priviledges for
less work.
The Codeless, Clueless, Tech Lite did not come from
either of these.
73 de Ronnie
OBS/OES
40 year member of ARRL
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5JBP on August 3, 2003
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QUOTE: These are professional amateurs making their living and huge life style at the expense of hams. I am not against salaries but $6,000,000, if I remember correctly it could be more, for an organization as small as ARRL is huge. This is 50% or more than collected revenue.UNQUOTE
You need to go back to accounting 101. How many full time employees do you think we have?
Jim
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5JBP on August 3, 2003
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To K9FE: Thanks. All the time I check the mail to see if any of the other groups are sending a check. In fact, I have often wondered why no one else ever goes to see their congressman or senator in Washington. Don't see the other publishers there, don't see anyone but League staff. That is generally myself and counsel and sometimes one of the Washington staff.
I have already been to Washinton a total of 15 days this year. Didn't see anyone I know from the amateur community at the FCC other than Bill Cross who works there. What would be interesting is let me break out my trip expenses for the September trip and let us see if some on this news group will pony up. Now, I don't fly first class, no lemo meets me at the airport (hotel shuttle) and the hotel should have been torn down several years ago.
But, those who have done business in our Nation's Capital, you know that just a simple breakfast is over $10. Forget about renting a car, no place to park, so cabs are the only way. My day ususally starts about 5:30 AM and ends about 10:00 PM. We make the most of each minute and try to see as many members of congress as possible. We also schedule at least two visits to the FCC. Do we get everything we want? Of course not, and neither does anyone else. When I think of what the hams are up against, it is a wonder we are as successful as we are.
I recall sitting in the 8th floor reception room waiting so see one of the commissioners and watched this group of lawyers step from the elevator. None had a suit on that cost less than a thousand dollars. Same with the shoes. I mentioned to Chris, wonder who these people are? He said the name of the firm and that they represented the broadcast industry.
We have done pretty well as of late, and we intend to do more. There is a lot on our plate, with the congressional bills, CW, BPL, and some that would like for us to roll over and play dead. Not a chance!
Jim, W5JBP
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WB5HZE on August 3, 2003
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I would like to point out that I am a ham who happens- at this time- to be an ARRL member because their activity to protect the spectrum coincides with my own selfish interest of keeping my operating privileges. I am not a life member but pay annually in order to reserve the right to protest by dropping my membership (should I disagree with the organization's future activities). I have done so before and am prepared to do so again if I later find myself at odds with the organization. But I will not permit past history to color my perception of the current state of affairs, and so the ARRL has my support at this time.
Therefore, let's make it clear that I do not post as an ARRL member in wholehearted support of the ARRL, but as a concerned radio amateur in full support of the ARRL's present activities to protect our spectrum.
Also . . . the problem in Washington is not the ARRL, it is the FCC. The leadership of the FCC has little or no interest towards the wellbeing of private radio, whether industrial or amateur. Frankly, private radio is a thorn in their side and they would just as soon see it disappear, leaving everyone to obtain wireless services from commercial vendors. The FCC is impressed by commercial promises of economic growth and increased tax revenues, as well as the possibility of generating cash by means of spectrum auctions to such commercial entities. They are not impressed by much else, including the rightness of private radio's cause.
The ARRL is not ignored by the FCC. Neither is the industry organization on which I serve as a volunteer, nor are similar private radio organizations. All such groups attempt to influence the decisions of the FCC during various proceedings in their own interests. Invariably, all such groups (usually) have only partial success in defending those interests. When the opponents are commercial providers, the FCC has demonstrated an automatic tendency to take sides with the $$$, requiring strong arguments from a well-funded defense effort in order to head off disaster. Over the past decade or so, industrial radio has done well to simply "hold the barbarians at the gates," but it often seems as though we are losing the war. In comparison, I feel that the results of similar efforts by the ARRL to protect amateur radio have been more successful.
I somewhat resent any implication that I am speaking with anything less than full sincerity as I voice my support for the ARRL. I'll say it again just in case it was not understood- my own agenda is effective protection of the amateur spectrum rather than immediate growth of the ARRL's membership. It just so happens that these are one and the same at the present time. I firmly believe that it is in every amateur's best interest to support the ARRL for however long it takes to achieve full protection of our privileges and spectrum, or until something better comes along . . . or until we lose it all (in which case it no longer matters).
Regards . . . Ron WB5HZE
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K7VO on August 3, 2003
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To WA8KJP: Well... I guess if all ham radio bands below 144MHz become useless it doesn't matter to you. That would be the impact of BPL if it is rolled out as the utilities propose.
To KE4MOB: Tell me: who but ARRL is doing the research, the lab testing, the groundwork, and the lobbying to back up your very fine and much needed comments?
Look, I could write a VERY long article on everything the ARRL has done poorly or I didn't agree with. Normally I'd ignore an article like this one.
The thing is, the BPL threat changes EVERYTHING. We are relatively few in number and don't have the money to put behind the BPL issue that the power companies have. Of course, the money those electric utilities are putting into steamrolling BPL through came from you in the form of your electric bill. You not only paid for electricity, but all sorts of political lobbying you don't agree with, and you had no choice whatsoever in the matter. You do have a choice to put some of the money you control to fight back on BPL.
Look, if we, the ham community do not come together on this one issue and forget all the petty arguments about the ARRL we might as well kiss HF and 6m goodbye right now.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better? try this ! ! !
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by N6AJR on August 3, 2003
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If you don't like what the ARRL is doing, then run for office at the ARRL and change it from the inside.
HOW MANY FOLKS OUT THERE HAVE EVER SENT A LETTER OR AN EMAIL TO THE ARRL TO SAY "HEY LETS DO THIS " OR "HEY LETS DO THAT" ??. How do you expect them to know what youn want if you don't tell them.
SO, either run for office at the ARRL and change it from the inside, or at least send them a letter or Email saying what you would like to see.
I don't get in to political arguments with folks who don't vote. If you don't vote you don't care. Your opinion is not worth hearing.
Speak up where it will do some good, or shut up and get the ##### out of the way
73 tom N6AJR
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by N7TYB on August 3, 2003
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I am not an ARRL member. BUT I put $40 in an envelope and mailed it with a note that simply said "Use this to fight BPL".
That way I was not supporting the whole infrastructure, but targetting where I want my money to go. I don't agree with the league on a lot of things, and will not let my money go to support things I don't like. But if something comes up, and the league is doing something about it, I will support that cause.
N7TYB
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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Anonymous post on August 3, 2003
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It appears the arrl is continuing to send their faithfull repeatedly to web sites to get more money for themselves. The cheer leader who wrote this 'article' is just repeating a similar attempt a few weeks ago. Since the league supporters are starting to get beyond just the usual nasty tone, telling dissenters to "shut the --ck up, do this, do that, if you don't want kiss the league ass......it really is getting obvious that the hard sell is an attempt to save a desperate and dying animal. The arrl must be in really bad shape. I LOVE IT.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA2JJH on August 3, 2003
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I was not going to touch this one with an 11 meter pole.
I DO HAVE A TOTAL RIGHT TO BE a nuetral observer of PRO, and CON visa-vi said topic.
True the ARRL is the only game in town. I used the ARRL license manual in the 1970's to go from Novice to Extra. BPL internet could prove to be a problem.
I wonder if the FCC made any note of individual letters.
OK,I have heard many say the ARRL is arogant. Another
poster refered to them as 'THE NEWINGTON CONN. old boy network" Many are under an impression that the NEWINGTON boys all must have the best equipment that are given to them by manufacturers.
I do not know if any of this is true.
Someone asked would the ARRL give a full accounting of where all the money goes.
NOBODY has the right to bully people into joining the
ARRL. NOBODY should say do not join the ARRL!
Every opinion PRO or CON should be respected!
Last time I LOOKED AT MY PASSPORT, IT SAID U.S OF A!
AMERICA IS ABOUT CHOICE!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5JBP on August 3, 2003
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Richard (WA8KJP) I love it as well. I was curious so I typed your call into Google search and read some of your other post. I was reminded of another ham I once knew here in Dallas. He was a frequent user of the local .88 repeater. I would hear him on, and each time he had a complaint about something. The roads were bad, the police was corrupt, amateur radio was going to hell in a hand basket, the weather was too hot or cold and so on. I really begin to feel bad for him, as nothing seemed to make him happy. So, one day I heard him on complaining about taxes and or such. I broke in and said: "Bill (not his real name) do you have any kids?" He said: "Yes, I have five, 3 girls and two boys." I said: " Well, that is good, for I have finally found something you like to do."
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WR8Y on August 3, 2003
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The ARRL has troubled me over the years, but is ANYONE doing anything about BPL other than them?
Do any of you understand that almost everything we argue about (no code, dummed down tests, etc.) won't make a bit of difference in the face of BPL?
Let the ARRL die, and the hobby will go with it.
Like it or not.
Mark
WR8Y
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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Anonymous post on August 3, 2003
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A suggestion for the ARRL:
Stop QST magazine. Its a waste of paper and money.
Stop spending money (almost) period.
Put out only a handbook with everything in it. Volunteer staff only.
Fire the paid staff.
Use and pay a bank to collect payments and handle all money.
Put everything on a web site. No more meetings, letters, travel, etc..
Hire a DC lobbying firm and have a volunteer board monitor their efforts.
Have all voting activity on the web site.
And to w5jbp, FIRE YOURSELF.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA2JJH on August 3, 2003
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N7TYB had a great idea! He was not even pro or con.
I might follow his lead. Send in Money to the ARRL only to be used for fighting real ham issue's.(BPL losing spectrum for example)
How ever not a cent for a QST subscription or anything else. Remember the law is the reduction of paper act! Jut ask the FCC about that act.
N7TYB is an original thinker! Not to commen these days.
It is easy to be pro or con.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5USB on August 3, 2003
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Hi Jim, nice to see you here.
I once fronted the "financial report" argument against the ARRL. I was almost immediately emailed by Mr. Haynie, with some critical information I lacked. This email to a non-member really surprised me. I was impressed to know that someone from the ARRL actually does keep an eye on what others think. I didn't think that person would be the president of the organisation though.
I owed Jim the respect of re-investigating his claims...and subsequently had to modify my stance against the ARRL. The next day, I sent in my membership dues.
I just want to thank you. That was certainly a personal touch not seen in the world today.
C'mon people, it's real easy to complain from the grandstands...but there are people working the $$$ hungry politicians while we work our careers and raise our kids. Amateur radio can never hope to have money for the bigshot lawyers and such, like Nextel and others have. It's truly David vs. Goliath out there, and I would suggest you help to arm David to the best of your abilities. Join up!
Art Granda
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KG4OOA on August 3, 2003
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Quote:
I once fronted the "financial report" argument against the ARRL. I was almost immediately emailed by Mr. Haynie, with some critical information I lacked.
That is pure bull!
I have been an accountant since 1985. I shouldn't have to go look some other place after I read the audited financials including footnotes. If that is the case, the auditing firm has attested to an inaccurate audit.
The purpose of audited financial statements is to DISCLOSE everything about the financial status of the business or organization. When read by the sophisticated reader the reader will be able to make reasonable decisions about the organization (quote from AICPA).
Based on what you said about "relooking" are we talking fraud?
My statement was based on normal ratios used by the sophisticated reader to make a decision as to whether to invest or not invest.
~~~~~
While I am here, I might also ask another question. Many people make purchasing decisions based on ARRL's evaluation of equipment. Can anyone show me true independance in these evaluations? It appears that since the manufacturer advertises in QST, all I am reading is an ad. I.E. If they say the rig sucks, no more advertising dollars.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5USB on August 3, 2003
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No, it is not BULL. I am not an accountant and needed to investigate further, you got a problem with that?
If you have issues with the ARRL, take it to them. I am relaying an honest account, and have every right to express it.
Art Granda
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<While I am here, I might also ask another question. Many people make purchasing decisions based on ARRL's evaluation of equipment. Can anyone show me true independance in these evaluations? It appears that since the manufacturer advertises in QST, all I am reading is an ad. I.E. If they say the rig sucks, no more advertising dollars.>>
Know what? You're right. I think the reviews here on e-ham are much more scientific and much more obviously based in fact than any review done in QST.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<In the sixties and beyond Wayne Green W2NSD tried to offer an alternate voice to ham radio. As many of you will remember he began 73 magazine, lectured and offered alternate opinions. He was also attacked in QST, at the local club meetings by the ARRL mouths and on the Air. >>
73 Magazine is fersherrr my first place for ham radio info! That, and information on how the moon landings were done on a Hollywood studio, vaccinations are the governments way of killing off people, etc.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<A suggestion for the ARRL:
Stop QST magazine. Its a waste of paper and money.
Stop spending money (almost) period.
Put out only a handbook with everything in it. Volunteer staff only.
Fire the paid staff.
Use and pay a bank to collect payments and handle all money.
Put everything on a web site. No more meetings, letters, travel, etc..
Hire a DC lobbying firm and have a volunteer board monitor their efforts.
Have all voting activity on the web site.
And to w5jbp, FIRE YOURSELF.>>
You're right. In fact, I think EVERYTHING costs too much, and that's because too many people actually want to get paid (at least somewhat) for the work they do. From now on, everyone (accept me) should do their work voluntarily, so that everything I want to buy will cost a lot less.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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KE4MOB writes:
> Hmmm...you seem to think that those hams who are not
> members of the ARRL do "nothing" to protect ham
> radio.
I agree; as I like to say, all good things in amateur radio do not come from Newington, CT. But one heck of a lot of them do, and amateur radio would be much worse off without them.
Let's look at the list of things that are important to me:
o Field organization: ARRL supports a volunteer base of over 10,000 hams, performing a wide range of services for their fellow hams on the local level.
o Education: ARRL has programs to bring amateur radio into the classroom, as a teaching tool for conventional subject. This includes curriculae, staff support of teacher and providing equipment
o Education: The League has programs to teach ham radio in classrooms and as extra-curricular activities
o Education: ARRL has put together on-line courses in amateur radio operating and technology
o Shuttle Amateur Radio Experiment: ARRL provides support to the SAREX program, helping to coordinate the communications between the shuttle and classrooms
o Amateur auxiliary/OO: Not only do the OOs provide "friendly advice," but they are instrumental in developing much of the evidence that is used by the FCC in enforcement cases
o Contests and awards: Admittedly, duplicated in many ways across hamdom, but how many of us have been active to get our Worked All states or DXCC?
o Regulatory information: PRB-1, immunity of consumer devices, FCC pre-emption of RFI are just a few of the accomplishments of ARRL in the regulatory area. On the plate are amateur-spectrum protection legislation and a CC&R relief bills, all thanks directly to the work of ARRL. They even maintain a staff person who can help answer regulatory questions.
o The ARRL web pages are an incredible resource for information and news about amateur radio. The ARRL Letter and its news crawl are read by hundreds of thousands of hams.
o The ARRL Technical Information Service: Almost 100 pages of information on specific technical topics, with over 600 pages of articles available for download.
o Product Review: Comprehensive tests on nearly every piece of amateur equipment sold.
o Media public relations: The HQ staff working on this maintain a press kit, an PR newsletter and have daily contact with those preparing articles about ham radio.
o Congressional contact: ARRL has hired a lobbyist firm in DC, who has constant contact with our Congresscritters. The ARRL staff and volunteer officers (the President, Jim Haynie, is an unpaid volunteer) also regularly visit congress. Jim recently testified on amateur radio before a congressional subcommittee.
o The ARRL RFI program: This is literally a world-class program that serves as a model of resolving RFI problems with a combination of information, cooperation and regulatory intervention. ARRL has its RFI book, RFI information pages, individual contact with members, its joint program with the FCC on power-line noise and formal participation with industry through the IEEE, the National Cable Telecommunications Association, the Society of Automotive Engineers, HomePlug, Home Phone Networking Alliance and a number of others, in an attempt to solve interference at the source. Based on ARRL work, a number of industries have chosen to notch out ham spectrum from their industry standards.
o QST: Its pages have a wide range of operating, technical and help-for-new hams articles and features
These are just a few of the highlights of the things that are important to me.
> And the best representation one can have is to
> directly make their views known to the people who
> will be making the decisions. I don't feel
> comfortable (nor is it necessary) to have
> someone "proxy" my vote for something when I am more
> than capable of fully speaking my mind.
And I encourage you to do so. However, in the BPL case, did speaking your mind include the results of weeks of time spent measuring, calculating and measurements in 4 BPL field trial areas?
> My voice is my voice. And I don't need the ARRL to
> speak for me. Granted, they do very, very, good work
> in some areas (Ed Hare should get a ham sainthood
> for the work he has done on BPL) BUT there are much
> more effective ways to promote and protect ham radio
> than blindly joining the ARRL, paying your dues, and
> thinking everything is hunky-dory.
Okay. Seeing as you used my work as the example, I will bite. What have you done that is more effective than the work ARRL has done to get industry not to use amateur spectrum in much of its Part-15 implementation? What have you done that is more effective than the studies ARRL has submitted to the FCC with respect to BPL? What have you done that is more effective than the measurements ARRL has made in the trial areas? Should we all accept that what you have done is "more effective," to use your words and blindly think that your work has made it all hunky-dory?
> Andd just because you don't belong to the ARRL
> doesn't make you less of a ham, or less supportive
> of ham radio overall. Actions speak louder than
> associations.
"Actions" is exactly what ARRL is about. I have outlined a few of them. And what ARRL does is indeed the collective work of the support of 160,000 hams. You nominated me for sainthood, but that is not necessary. That is my job. I am pleased to do it well, but the ONLY reason that ARRL has those resources is because 160,000 hams chipped in. Most of the work I did could NOT be done by volunteers, although there are hams out there right now doing tests and measurements, too. But by having this work coordinated by one central resource, it is made stronger and more effective. And having one person able to work on BPL pretty much full time, we get a LOT more done than your "more effective" work could ever be, I am sure.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the resources of 160,000 people can get more done than any individual. My work included, becauase without those resources, it would not have happened. All of what I described above costs ARRL members 12 cents a day. For 12 cents, hams get to fund that rather long list, because ARRL will do something in each of those areas every single day. If you are not a member, understand that the "saintly" work you praise so was paid for by your fellow hams. And without that support, that work would stop tomorrow.
I disagree that getting on the air and individual comments to the FCC on BPL are at all equivalent to what can be done by 160,000 hams that work together to make things happen. Each are important, because without getting on the air, it all stops tomorrow, too, but without some of what I outlined above, getting on the air would have been a thing of the past decades ago.
For 12 cents, you can do your share to support the things that ARRL will get done today, or, you can stop off at the coffee shop and pay for a good-size sip of coffee.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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> I am not an ARRL member. BUT I put $40 in an
> envelope and mailed it with a note that simply
> said "Use this to fight BPL".
> That way I was not supporting the whole
> infrastructure, but targetting where I want my money
> to go. I don't agree with the league on a lot of
> things, and will not let my money go to support
> things I don't like. But if something comes up, and
> the league is doing something about it, I will
> support that cause.
Much of the work I am doing on BPL is building on things ARRL started years ago. The work with HomePlug to have them notch amateur spectrum from their industry specification. The contacts in industry that are proving invaluable in this campaign. I am using test equipment and test methods ARRL developed years before BPL came down the pike. The only reason that there is an ARRL at all for you to send $40 to is that for years, members have ponied up about 10% of what I spend in coffee a year to make it happen. We cannot afford to only have a strong organization after the emergency pops up.
I posted a list of part of that infrastructure. Look at that list and tell me why you don't want to support those activities. I don't agree with ARRL all the time either. Neither does Jim Haynie, but he and I will continue to support the League as long as it is willing to do the things on our own personal lists of what is important.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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>And to w5jbp, FIRE YOURSELF.
Um, Jim and the entire ARRL Board of Directors are unpaid volunteers. . .
I vote that we double their salary. :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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>> I once fronted the "financial report" argument
>> against the ARRL. I was almost immediately emailed
>> by Mr. Haynie, with some critical information I
>> lacked.
> That is pure bull!
> I have been an accountant since 1985.
Then you should know that most financial statements do not break down expenses department by department. If someone wanted to know how much ARRL spent on test equipment last year, they would not find that sort of information in the Annual Reports.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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> Know what? You're right. I think the reviews here on
> e-ham are much more scientific and much more
> obviously based in fact than any review done in QST.
Can you give us the URLs for the 40 pages of test data on any of the e-ham reviews? ARRL provides such information on its web pages for most major rigs. If the e-ham reviews are more scientific, I would like to see the science.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KC8SBV on August 4, 2003
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The author states:
"It is unfortunate that there aren't pro-ham radio, single issue, groups appearing to promote opposite sides of an issue before Congress and/or the FCC, like code versus no-code for HF. But, there aren't."
He has missed http://www.nocode.org/ where WK3C heads the US chapter.
"No-Code International TM is a organization dedicated to the abolition of the Morse code testing requirement as a prerequisite for any class of Amateur Radio license. NCI TM will continue as a lobbying organization as long as the manual telegraphy testing requirement exists. "
BTW, I am not a member of this org.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<If the e-ham reviews are more scientific, I would like to see the science>>
It's the science of "I'm-going-to-say-I-like-it-because-I-spent-so-much-money-on-it" or "I'm-going-to-say-I-hate-it-because-I-really-want-to-promote-another-rig"
I was being sarcastic ;-) Eham reviews are about as scientific as.... 73 Magazine! ;-)
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<Um, Jim and the entire ARRL Board of Directors are unpaid volunteers. . .
I vote that we double their salary. :-) >>
Triple it. Hey, how else are you going to pay the lease on the invisible Rolls Royce and pay to feed that six foot invisible rabbit!
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by OP0IUM on August 4, 2003
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I do not know if the ARRL is arrogant, like another poster said some hams feel.
However look at sll the post's. one after another from MR ED, the self appointed RF demigod. Many people own or have access to modern CPU controlled service monitors and spectrum analysers.
I will take 100 EHAM reviews over one from the ARRL!
It may not sure arrogance, but that dude sure seems defensive and mean spirited!
He simply is disrespectfull of any other peoples views, that are not his.
The proof is he systematicly went after any disenter from the program line, and said why can't you all just pony up the 33 cents per day to support the ARRL.
I am proud to support 5 kids in the third world.
I am glad to pay the $5 A DAY for my kids!
How dare you tell me what to do with my money!!!!
How dare you disrespect other peoples views.
SAL
SAL
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by KR1ST on August 4, 2003
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Another one of those amusing threads. What's next, ya'll going to tell me I have to believe in God because without her we wouldn't have this beautiful hobby of ours.
One can list a million reasons why someone should join an organization. They may be good reasons for you to join, they may not be the right reasons for someone else. People are different in their actions and beliefs, even if they have the same goal in mind. Spend your time wiser than trying to convince the inconvincible. I wish folks would get off their high horses and accept and respect that someone may not want to join the organization they believe in so much. Stop calling on folks to defend themselves, it really leads to noting.
I can list quite a few reasons why not to join the ARRL, but see, I do not feel the need to convince anyone. I do not feel that my reasons are superior, neither do I think yours are. People are fully capable making their own choices. Let them. And if their choice is not yours, then accept, respect and tolerate that.
73,
--Alex KR1ST
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<Many people own or have access to modern CPU controlled service monitors and spectrum analysers.
I will take 100 EHAM reviews over one from the ARRL! >>
Yup, and isn't it great that all these people who have all this test equipment don't use it when posting their eham reviews, and instead just post opinions they get after 3 minutes of use? This makes the reviews so much more fun to read!
<<He simply is disrespectfull of any other peoples views, that are not his>>
Exactly. When someone says something that's inaccurate, you shouldn't disagree with them. That'd just be disrespectful.
<<How dare you tell me what to do with my money!!!! >>
Exactly. I think every organization that's out there that requires money to operate should stop asking people for money. They should do things like sell quack cures for diseases and make money that way.... oh wait, some OTHER "ham celebrity" is already doing that. Wouldn't want to compete with him, that might be "disresectful".
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<I can list quite a few reasons why not to join the ARRL>>
I have a big one. No pictures of Pamela Anderson in QST!! All those technical articles, product reviews, hints for beginners, ham radio news, etc. Blech. Just get rid of all that and put in some pictures of the future Mrs. Kid Rock. And if she requires too much money for the photos, that's an easy problem to solve! Just have the ARRL stop spending money on things like Washington Lobbying, Ham radio promotion, education, etc, and just send it over to Pamela instead!!
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by L1OOK on August 4, 2003
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AFTER seeing what W1RFI and A-COX have to say, I AINT EVER JOINING THE ARRL! I hate know-it-all facistic
groups!
Hope you guys do not do recruitment. ATTRACTION rather then in your face promotion works better!
Lets face it, even if both of you are 100% right, YOU WILL TURN PEOPLE OFF!!! MORE THAN YOU THINK!
Just telling people they are wrong, or do not think the way you think is how natzi germany camne to fruition!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA4MJF on August 4, 2003
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L1OOK,
You guys in Norway did a bang up job
of keepin' the krauts away! Talk about
the pot callin' the kettle black.
This is an American problem any how, not
all y'alls.
Ronnie
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5USB on August 4, 2003
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L1OOK, have you ever used a spell-checker?
Anyone who uses only reviews as a guide for purchasing products, needs to do some additional homework.
I think it is fantastic that Jim and Ed get on here and shoot back. No one can say that they don't read this stuff, or that they don't care.
Amateur radio doesn't offer the government a single cent for it's bandspace(which by the way is one of the largest allocations of space in the EM spectrum). The license fees may actually cover the human work needed to process the applications. For the most part, the bandspace is "granted" to us by virtue of the place we occupy in emergency backup communications. One day, new and better systems will exist that will make amateur radio less attractive to the government as a backup option. Then what? We can't go to Washington and claim that we "own" our spectrum, because we don't. We will need to either offer something of tangible value or pony up a decent chunk of change for the space we use.
Spectrum cannot be "created" and thus will one day be sold to the highest bidder, and I for one cannot afford to compete against the likes of commercial interests. This is why the ARRL and others are crucial to our hobby's future. I need to work to support myself and family, and cannot travel to Washington to speak my mind. My dues go in part to an organisation that has agreed to fight for me, the ARRL.
I cannot expect even a 50/50 win ratio for a large group of hobbyists over bigtime commercial interests. Commercial interests can slide a little cash to a $$$ strapped federal bureaucracy, via the FCC, to "grease the skids", so to speak. We cannot and hopefully would not do such a thing. One day, we will surely lose our allocation, with the ARRL or not. Money talks. Let's contribute all we can to extend this period for as long as possible.
Art Granda
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by KE4ZHN on August 4, 2003
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The next time Im rudely interrupted and qrm`ed by 500 idiots half a KC away from my qso hollering "CQ contest CQ contest your 5/9 5/9", I`ll be sure to thank the fine folks at the ARRL for contesting. Another wonderful contribution to ham radio. Life just wouldnt be the same without getting bombarded with moronic, repetitious drivel for a weekend of so called fun compliments of the ARRL and their ideas for so called band utilization. Thanks guys, this is real ham radio, 5000 idiots keying on top of one another screaming into the mike with 50 db of compression wiping the entire spectrum out so they can get that coveted piece of paper for the shack wall.(or get their name and call published in QST) Why is it that anyone who disagrees with the ARRL and its policies gets chastised? If the league is so wonderful, then why is it that 3/4 of the 600,000 or so hams in this country dont belong? Maybe not all of us are so easily led around by the nose.
73 Rich
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W5USB on August 4, 2003
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Is that the ARRL's fault, or the actual federally licensed amateurs that are being extremely rude, in addition to breaking the rules?
Art Granda
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<Lets face it, even if both of you are 100% right, YOU WILL TURN PEOPLE OFF!!! MORE THAN YOU THINK! >>
A suggestion: If we DO eliminate the CW test, we replace it with a test to recognize sarcasm.
But then again, this is Eham. So many nut-cases post here with their nut-case positions I guess it's hard to sort that out from the sarcasm.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<The next time Im rudely interrupted and qrm`ed by 500 idiots half a KC away from my qso hollering "CQ contest CQ contest your 5/9 5/9", I`ll be sure to thank the fine folks at the ARRL for contesting.>>
Yup, and every ham radio contest out there is sponsored by the ARRL. CQ Magazine, the various European Clubs that have their name on contests, etc, they're all just "phantom names" of the ARRL. You didn't know that?
<<If the league is so wonderful, then why is it that 3/4 of the 600,000 or so hams in this country dont belong?>>
Probably because of the lack of Pamela Anderson pictures, I'd say. Or maybe it's just because people would rather others support the organizations that work for them, so they themselves can sit on their butts and complain all day.
<<Maybe not all of us are so easily led around by the nose.>>
Or maybe a lot of us would rather sit on our big butts and not do anything to help ham radio except whine.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KD6LME on August 4, 2003
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Hello Everyone,
What I find interesting is the amount of hatred and venom that some hams seem to have toward the ARRL. It is amazing to me that so much ill-will could is directed toward an organization (representing a hobby!) that is simply trying to keep as many people happy as it can. When I read some of the posts directed against the ARRL, it makes me question the sanity of the posters. Thus I have come to a conclusion, which is as follows:
I personally think that these feelings of hatred are not specific to the ARRL, but are just the rantings of people who are generally unhappy with their lives and need a focus for their unhappiness. All one has to do is listen to 75 meters on any given night and you will hear people like these ranting about the government, gun control, women, minorities, and of course everyone’s favorite topic of derision....liberals. The only thing they seem to be able to agree on, is how much they hate everyone who doesn’t think exactly like they do. If you read the postings against the ARRL, I think that you will see a lot of this kind of “if you aren’t exactly like me, then I hate you” thread running through them.
Thus, I wouldn’t take the views of these people seriously; when someone hates everything, and is unhappy with everything, then there is no point in taking personal offense when they don’t like you either. If your one of those people my advice to you is to turn off the Fox channel (and the TV in general), put on some classical music instead of talk radio, get out of the “no-spin” zone before it makes you so dizzy you can’t think straight, and talk a walk outside and calm down. You still have a good portion of your life left to live, and you’ll have a lot more fun with it if you start focusing on the positive instead of the negative.
Ham radio is a great hobby, and we all lucky that there are people like those in the ARRL that will support us even when we don’t support them. Don’t want to join the ARRL? Well...I think your making a mistake, but I’ll still be happy to meet you on the air.
73,
Gregg
KD6LM ex KD6LME
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by WA2JJH on August 4, 2003
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Hmmmmmm, not to mention any call signs, it seems a few seem to be extremly intelligent! They have an answer for absolutly anything.
I got a 9by12 array of 3erd degree multivariable differential equations I need solved for the university.
I do not want to bother to use MATLAB for them.
Since you seem to have all the answers, where can I email the equations to you. The average PC will take about 5 minutes.
However, some have all the answers for everybody and everything for that matter!
Maybe it would be faster to email them to you!
Being serious however, I did not know that the percentage of hams was that low! I thought 50/50.
Maybe the silent majority should be listened to.
Rather than LAMBASTED by extremist on BOTH sides of a
EXTREMLY IMPORTANT ham radio issue.
73 MIKE
73 and laughs with out any malice! REALLY!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W9WHE on August 4, 2003
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AC0X writes that the ARRL should:
"Fire the paid staff. Use and pay a bank to collect payments and handle all money. Put everything on a web site. No more meetings, letters, travel, etc.."
WHAT? Are you kidding? Who would David and Linda Sumner work for? And the scholarship $$, a regular ham might get that money! Where else can a bunch of good ol'e boys get to play with such nice toys at someone else's expense? Who else would pay ARRL employees to travel?
NAAAHHHHHH!
Never going to happen. The Sumner Employment Agency needs your money! Pay up!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W9WHE on August 4, 2003
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KE4ZHN writes:
"The next time Im rudely interrupted and qrm`ed by 500 idiots half a KC away from my qso hollering "CQ contest CQ contest your 5/9 5/9", I`ll be sure to thank the fine folks at the ARRL for contesting. Another wonderful contribution to ham radio. Life just wouldnt be the same without getting bombarded with moronic, repetitious drivel for a weekend of so called fun compliments of the ARRL and their ideas for so called band utilization. Thanks guys, this is real ham radio, 5000 idiots keying on top of one another screaming into the mike with 50 db of compression wiping the entire spectrum out so they can get that coveted piece of paper for the shack wall.(or get their name and call published in QST) Why is it that anyone who disagrees with the ARRL and its policies gets chastised? If the league is so wonderful, then why is it that 3/4 of the 600,000 or so hams in this country dont belong?"
I couldn't have said it better myself!
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 4, 2003
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> If the league is so wonderful, then why is it that
> 3/4 of the 600,000 or so hams in this country dont
> belong?"
Here is my list, in no particular order:
1. They are no longer active in ham radio. I meet a number of industry engineers that are hams, and many are not on the air. Those that aren't active aren't ARRL members.
2. They died 9 years ago and still appear in the database.
3. Financial reasons. They can't scrape up the money all in one chunk.
4. They will get around to renewing eventually.
5. They don't read QST or borrow a copy and so don't need to be members. We actually used to have an old timer show up in the lobby to read QST every month. He wasn't a member. He is now part of reason #2.
6. If they call ARRL HQ, we help them anyway. We don't always check on the fly, but 85% of those that contact our Lab staff are not current members.
7. They are the licensed family of hams, and aren't really all that interested. The OM or YL is a member.
8. They became licensed, but never used it, and won't even notice when it expires.
9. They are unhappy with ARRL for a policy reason.
10. They don't know that much about ARRL and haven't joined.
11. They just don't join things.
Care to put an estimate to each of those reasons? We can then judge whether your question was serious, or whether you wanted to imply that all of those that aren't members are unhappy with ARRL.
I posted my list of what about ARRL I feel to be most important. Do you have any views on what I had to offer?
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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by WA2JJH on August 4, 2003
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OK 1,7,8 AND 9 SOUND VALID to me. The last two, questionable! Glad you have an open mind.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 4, 2003
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<<W9WHE says that AC0X writes that the ARRL should...>>
AC0X said nothing of the sort. He was simply quoting our resident... ahem...."contrarian" WA8KJP in order to respond to what HE said.
All sarcasm of mine aside.. I am a BIG supporter of the ARRL. Do I agree with EVERYTHING they do? No, of course not. But then again, I don't agree with everything my mother taught me, either ;-)
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by N2MG on August 5, 2003
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I don't know why it comes to anyone's surprise that the ARRL has "only" 25% of US hams for members. I'm surprised it has that many!
Public radio stations have come to expect about 10% of the listeners to fork over the funds to keep them going. The other 90% listen, but don't pay.
The NRA has around 2.5M-3M members - in a land where there are 250M-300M guns (40M-50M gunowners) -these numbers are hard to nail down. So they have more or less 10% - maybe a lot LESS. (I was unable to find comprehensive statistics in this regard)
Say what you want about the ARRL, its policies or leadership - but please don't try to use the numbers themselves as a way to draw any conclusions - except to say they do a remarkable job attracting members in a land where folks regularly bury their heads in the sand.
Mike N2MG
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K3DML on August 6, 2003
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The people who want our frequencies are businesses with business interests and profits to make. Their customers are not in the fight.
The Ham dealers and radio manufacturers have the most to lose if our hobby diminishes in any way. They have the money and the motive to support any organization that helps put money in their pockets.
When we buy radios we should ask how much they are financially supporting retention of the ham freqs.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 6, 2003
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>Ed, good arguments...I just sent in my dues.
And to think I only had to drive 1300 miles to do it! :-) Thanks. That is the best support ARRL can find, becauase membership provides financial and political support. And try to stick with it when it is over, because this has been a very sobering experience for me as it really got driven home that we need ARRL around for these sorts of things before they become emergencies. There is no time to build organizations, test methods, resources and even low friends in high places once the dam breaks.
On my desk door is a drawing. This poor unfortunate frog is getting eaten by a rather large bird. The hapless frog has his head well on the way to being gone, but he has reached out and has his hands around the throat of the bird, preventing himself from being swallowed. The caption reads, "Don't ever give up!" I now know why it is there.
The other one that comes to mind is a saying by Harry S Truman, "There is no limit to what you can get done if you don't care who gets the credit." So many are pitching in and helping to make things happen, and I am honored to be doing my share.
I don't know who to give credit for the last one, but a fellow once noted that a chess game is not won in one grand move, but by a gradual accumulation of advantage.
Thanks, Steve. One member at a time, we are making a difference.
BTW, I expect a more polished video that will have some voiceovers to explain things to non-hams, but ARRL chose to break from the normal rulemaking convention of not tipping the hand until the drop-dead filing date because hams need to be informed and others who might be affected needed to see just what impact BPL operating at the FCC limits would have on HF communications.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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by N3NL on August 7, 2003
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What about TV viewers of channels 2 through 5?
The TV broadcasters are not happy with this
prospect of BPL interference at all.
Model airplane flyers should work to get their
organizations in on the BPL issue. Model planes
use 72 MHz which will be impacted by BPL. Also,
those with ham licenses use 6 meters for model
control.
Is the ARRL going to get involved with the engineering
specifics of non-ham impacts of BPL? There are a lot
of non-ham users who could be assisted by the BPL
findings of the ARRL lab.
73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL
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by W8LV on August 7, 2003
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My only beef is that there is no forum at the ARRL Web site. (Hence, I post here, and also donate to eham.net.) I am also stretching your rule, as I am an ARRL member. I'm the guy who is CW QRP, who also at the same time thinks that CW should NOT be a REQUIREMENT for a ticket.
There was a time when the spark gap was also debated in the League. We got over it.
I don't see ANY other person or group lobbying for us in Washington, other than the ARRL. If you know of one, please tell me who that is? If you don't feel that it is time to wake up and smell the spectrum auctions, then hey, don't join the league. I belong to the Republican Party. That does not mean I agree with all Republicans, or always vote Republican. How would the League be any different than any other group that you associate with in this aspect, no matter what your own personal affiliations are?
They did a fine job in protecting us from say, the little LEOS. The state PRB-1 efforts (and federal efforts) are ARRL-based. They really didn't drop the ball on 5Mhz, instead we suddenly found ourselves at war AFTER the request was made to the Government. I don't think that anyone can argue that if the Government needs this particular spectrum, they need it. (They DID share a few discreet frequencies with us though,and while under the pressure of being at war they took the time to make this decesion instead of just shelveing the issue wholesale, so let us not forget that.) We didn't get a favorable ruleing on 160 Khz, but we can appeal on that, and try again. I think that the 160 Khz issue was misunderstood by the Commission, "others" I think, mislead them (and maybe not even intentionally) during the comment period. O.K...these are mortal men (like the ARRL officers) and can make mistakes.
Look, the league, just like your personal participation in Government really depends on, well, your participation in the Government, or the League! Did you vote for your Governor, or President? Did you send in your ballot when your League Secion Manager-elect VOLUNTEERED to run for the position? Or do you just read the papers, and QST, and grumble when policies don't go the way you wanted them to?
I hope that you would think of joining the League, and thinking over becoming a member again if you have let your membership lapse.
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by WA2JJH on August 7, 2003
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hhhhmmm. Mike does make a good point about stats.Visa-vi Enthusiast of ANY hobby paying for a magasine or organisation verses people in any hobby does not give a good picture. The stats are just a hill-o-beans.
I was interested that the president of the ARRL,loged
on, and gave his opinion as an individual. Rather than
the president of the ARRL. This did show me that he had an interest as a ham, and not just a mouth piece for the ARRL
Ed made some excellent points too. Some people will not join any club or organisation. That does not make them bad people or less than hams.
I have like many seen this situation. A Husband and wife just get a ham ticket to use 2 meters as a cheaper alternative to celluar phone. They have no interest in the hobby, and could care less about BPL.
The main point was that many do not have any idea of how the ARRL spends the money. I do see that the ARRL is offering emergency training ops. EXCELLENT!
I think that many people that ''are on the fence'' about membership, would respond to a high quality mini=DVD shot with a 3 chip camera, and slickly edited on an NLE(non linear editing system).
Rather than the new ham getting a generic letter from the ARRL, 3 days after he/she gets their ticket.
A FREE COPY of QST and the well produced DVD, would work much better than ARRL members ''GUILT TRIPPING''
hams new and those around for a while.
If I were a new ham, I would be turned off by this thread. WHY YOU ASK!
It totally comes across as passive aggresive behavior. To some a down right''BENSONHURST
SHAKE DOWN PROTECTION RACKET" OK,I am being a little histionic for effect.(do not bother to point out grammer and spelling mistakes)
You better join to protect ham radio. YES, the ARRL is the only protection we have, member or not.
Everybody has dealt with people that have thier ultra strong views.
The more you push, the more they will tell you to....fill in the expletive of your choice. THAT does not make them bad people or against ham radio's welfare either!
A good example is going to radio schlock for a fuse.
The workers bug you to buy battaries.
When I was 16 and selling APPLE-ll's, the first training tip I got will stay with me forever.
When someone walks into the store, NEVER SAY ''CAN I HELP YOU''. TURN OFF, WITH FRIES!
Some hams are in a, show mw what you CAN DO!
If someone still does not want to join, all the insults in a thread, will not work.
Many are not aware of all the ARRL DOES, or may not caRE. That still does not make them a few french fries short of a happy meal.
Some are like the late WILLIUM KUNTSLER. They just like to go against what they consider THE SYSTEM!
Of course there are pro ARRL hams that are seeing the man with the blue turbin, and four horses flying!
A ham radio apocolyps is here.
IN FACT THERE IS. BPL!
However those that want to keep their heads in the sand are not bad people. They want ham RADIO to
SURVIVE TOO!
They are like from the SHOW ME STATE OF MIND.
LAMBASTING DOES NOTHING! A soft sell with a DVD in a QST free for the on the fencers and new hams, might get rid of years of resentment and understanding
73 peace of mind MIKE AGAIN NO WORD PROC EXCUSS SPELLING!
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by G3VGR on August 7, 2003
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This thread reminds me of Monty Python's "what have the Romans ever done for us?" in Life of Brian. I am an ARRL member as well as an RSGB member. Why do I have membership of this foreign organization 3000 miles away? Well, I use some of their services (TIS, QST,QEX etc)and find it well worth the expense. I believe both national societies are doing their best to combat the threat from BPL and not just only for their membership.
Concerning equipment reviews, I've visited the ARRL lab and seen what goes on there. You can be sure that important factors, such as strong signal performance and spurious emissions are measured against the Manufacturer's spec, which gives confidence in making a purchase decision. The reviews on eham are merely user opinions - I know because I've posted a few myself. The most effective use of the eham reviews is to guage an impression of longer-term product reliability and customer service attitudes.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WR8D on August 7, 2003
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Well i was a member for over 20 years untill they did the waivers..cut the code requirement..then gave every damn cber in the country an extra class ticket. Oh i almost forgot...they talked the fcc into this vec crap that every cber in the country can buy his ticket from another of his cb friends that are extra class and vec's. All this was done just to put more and more money into the arrl's pockets. Now most of you can sit back and blow your chests out and brag about life member ship and all that crap...but look and listen to what those weirdo's have helped do to the bands...all so they can sell more radios to these idiots that are coming into our hobby. Most of them here have the idea in their heads that they will change us not us change them. They have completely ruined the 2 meter band. All you hear is 10-4 and plain ole cb talk. They even use their handles on the machines...all i can say to and for the arrl is they suck..pure and simple. They dont care about hamradio their only interest is their commercial interest which through getting more and more fools to get a ticket as easy as possible they can make themselves more and more "rich". The damage is done my advise to everyone is open you damn eyes and ears and see and hear for yourself. "You" didnt get these rules changed to let these fools on our bands...."They" did it just so they could make more money. "Shame" on you who support the demise of our once great hobby through support of the "arrl cut throat organization"
Really sad:
John WR8D
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KC4ATU on August 8, 2003
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Bob, AE7G, makes a statement and asks a question about the ARRL and its usefulness. The comments are holding true to form for eHam. Some thoughtful replys and than the ham radio misfits.
As a ARRL member I do not agree with everything they do. But, they are the one organization which has representatives in D.C. doing the daily leg work for us. Does it always work in our favor, no, but the outcome is less desstructive than it could be becaise of the effort.
Comments have been made about dumping down of Ham Radio by the changes to the rules and testing. Many of these took place do to the loss of funds to the FCC. The VEC program came into beimg becauce the FCC was losing the funds to do the job. The number of classes was reduced becauce of this loss of funds. We went through of period of no inforcement because of a lack of funding. Was this lack of funding caused by the ARRL. I don't think so. It was caused by the people we sent to Washington. So, when you look in the mirrow, thank yourself.
The code, no code debate is a dead horse which deserves to be put to rest. We still have it in our testing and can keep it if we so chose. Write the FCC with your thoughts on it and they will deside what they deside. The speed which you are tested on is a mute point. If you like it, you will use it, if you do not like it, you will not use it. Does having cw on the test make you or me a better ham, no it does not.
The ONE and only thing we face which could KILL ham radio is this battle with the power companies over BPL.
WE ALL NEED TO GO TO THE FCC SITE AND FILE A COMMENT OVER THIS. DO IT TODAY. WE MAY NOT HAVE A TOMARROW.
Lets cut out the infighting and save this hobby.
73 Bill KC4ATU
QEP, doing more with less
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KA4KOE on August 8, 2003
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OK, WHO else is lobbying Washington on our behalf? Perhaps you don't agree with all the politics, but hey, we're not a uniform mass, now are we?
Something is better than nothing.....kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face, it just donna work well laddie.
Philip
KA4KOE
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by K1CJS on August 8, 2003
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Some points that haven't really been brought out here are these:
What about the number of hams across the country that give of their time and efforts, the unpaid volunteers that serve in the ARRL Field Service and well as those in Newington.
Although those hams are volunteers, it takes money to support their efforts in assisting other hams with problems such as antenna restrictions, RFI matters, public relations, school programs, and so on. The ARRL provides resources to the volunteers so these "small" matters, so to speak, can be taken care of. Now, consider these small matters in one ARRL section and multiply them by the number of sections in the country. The "small" matters need a lot more than a "small" amount of overhead to support.
Also, the ARRL website is mostly open to the public. True, there is a "members only" section, but that section is actually small if you take into account the amount of varied information actually on the website.
Has anyone really thought about the cost of the servers and upkeep needed to keep the website going?
Add to that station W1AW where any licensed ham can sit down and operate--not just ARRL members--and the costs involved in setting up and maintaining it? That station is more than just a memorial station. It is an existing showpiece that promotes ham radio--and can be used (and has, I bet) to show congresscritters what ham radio is and can do.
These are just a few of the actual expenses paid for by the dues sent in by ARRL members. High salaries? I doubt it. Instead, a large paid staff of professionals. Dues going to stuff pockets? No, not really believable, but many different programs and activities to be funded? Definitely!
Does the ARRL do things you don't think appropriate? It probably does. But if you agree with only 50% - 60% of their activities, you should think of giving them your support, either by dues or in other ways.
Should you join and pay dues? That has to be your decision based on your researches and ideas about ham radio and where you think it is going. Just don't let the negativism of some of the hams influence you not to join before you can research the actual facts of the matter of "where the dues go".
Chris J. Smith, K1CJS
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 8, 2003
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> Well i was a member for over 20 years untill they
> did the waivers..cut the code requirement..then gave
> every damn cber in the country an extra class ?
> ticket. Oh i almost forgot...they talked the fcc
> into this vec crap that every cber in the country
> can buy his ticket from another of his cb friends
> that are extra class and vec's.
Actually, everything you describe was done by the FCC. Have you resigned your US citizenship in protest? Last I heard, there are a few countries looking for a few good men that you can join instead.
Last I looked, there were a few million CBers. I don't see that many hams in the FCC database. Do you think the FCC database may be broken?
> All this was done just to put more and more money
> into the arrl's pockets.
And what do you think that ARRL does with the revenues it collects?
> Now most of you can sit back and blow your chests
> out and brag about life member ship and all that
> crap...but look and listen to what those weirdo's
> have helped do to the bands...all so they can sell
> more radios to these idiots that are coming into our
> hobby.
ARRL does not sell radios...
> Most of them here have the idea in their heads that
> they will change us not us change them. They have
> completely ruined the 2 meter band. All you hear is
> 10-4 and plain ole cb talk.
Last time I listened to 2 meters, I heard amateur callsigns...
> all i can say to and for the arrl is they suck..pure
> and simple. They dont care about hamradio their only
> interest is their commercial interest which through
> getting more and more fools to get a ticket as easy
> as possible they can make themselves more and
> more "rich".
Gosh, you can't imagine how horrified I am to learn that I just drove 1300 miles to do BPL testing to suck and not to care about ham radio. How horrified must the ARRL Board of Director and officers know that they are getting rich by being unpaid volunteers. How much do I have to do for you before you are willing to offer a simple thank-you?
> "Shame" on you who support the demise of our once
> great hobby through support of the "arrl cut throat
> organization"
Can I presume that you will take over the work of ARRL after they are gone after you shame everyone out of supporting them? I need someone to drive to PA sometime in the next few weeks to complete my work.
> Really sad:
I do agree.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by TECH2003 on August 9, 2003
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Since the ARRL, W5YI, and the NCVEC support the elimination of CW testing, easier exams, and elimination of the CW sub-bands then I support them 100%. I am signing up to become a member.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KC8VWM on August 9, 2003
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What an interesting thought a user wrote:
"And just because you don't belong to the ARRL doesn't make you less of a ham, or less supportive of ham radio overall."
Does this perhaps suggest that there are different levels of "being a ham" based on membership to any particular organization?
What if I belonged to the 2 meter rag chewers club, what then? Would I be any less supportive of ham radio overall? You seem to be saying no, ....but, are you really saying no?.....
But wait, I am a member of ARRL!, so therefore I must be more of a ham than if I wasn't a member right?........
Let us analyse this for further clarification....
:)
KC8VWM
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 9, 2003
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<Since the ARRL, W5YI, and the NCVEC support the elimination of CW testing, easier exams, and elimination of the CW sub-bands then I support them 100%. I am signing up to become a member. >
The ARRL HQ staffer who represents ARRL at the NCVEC abstained from voting for the NCVEC petition. The present ARRL policy, dating back to 1996 or so, if memory serves, supports the retention of Morse code testing for HF access. At its last meeting, the ARRL Board asked the directors to poll the members in their divisions, to see how they feel in 2003 about the same issue. At the NCVEC meeting, Bart did not think it appropriate that he make the decision to sign on to what amounts to a major rulemaking petition, and I agree with him completely. That is a decision that should be made through the ARRL Board of Directors. The NCVEC apparently didn't want to wait.
ARRL does not support easier exams. In its comments to the FCC for restructuring, it asked the FCC to increase the scope of the written exams to balance any changes made to CW testing.
ARRL does not support the elimination of CW sub-bands. At a recent Board meeting, the Board concluded that ARRL wanted to see any band sub-division be done on the basis of bandwidth, not mode, but this would not directly change the frequencies that can be used by CW or phone stations. The purpose of this was to deal with the fact that some of the newer digital modes are getting pretty wide and wider modes and narrow modes like CW are not very compatible. The motion didn't carry much specific, other than for ARRL to address this at the earliest reasonable opportunity.
Besides, the only bands where I can't operate CW are 219-220 and the 5.3 MHz channels. There are no CW sub-bands to eliminate, as CW ops have access to virtually all amateur spectrum.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 9, 2003
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< Does this perhaps suggest that there are different levels of "being a ham" based on membership to any particular organization? >
Not according to Part 97. The only differences in levels of being a ham are the license types defined in the rules. My license does not say "ARRL member" on it; I have to say that for myself.
Hams' choosing to be ARRL members has nothing to do with their value to amateur radio. It is a choice about how much value they want to see ARRL provide to amateur radio.
Right now, I am mighty pleased that 160,000 hams have made the choice to give ARRL the resources to address the BPL issue. Without that work being done by someone, this steamroller would, IMHO, be unstoppable.
Amateur Radio cannot wait until the wolves are baying at the door before making choices to make amateur radio strong. IMHO, the mechanism to do that already exists -- flaws and all. The choice is whether to work with the structure we have to make it better, to try to build a new national organization or to do without one altogether.
Just do me a favor -- it you want to tear ARRL down and try to build a new one, wait until there are no major problems facing amateur radio. I don't want to see any significant period of time where we don't have the resources to deal with the crises.
Oh, and if a better national organization than ARRL comes along, I will support it, too. And if that organization gives me a better opportunity (long-term) to do the work ARRL allows me to do, I will resign my position and work for them instead. But in the meantime, I will support what we have right now, do my best to make it better, and try to influence ARRL through the very processes it has given me to do that. And if I don't like what Tom Frenaye, the New England Division Director does with my input, I can vote him out of office.
Does it really get much better than that? :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by TECH2003 on August 9, 2003
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>>><Since the ARRL, W5YI, and the NCVEC support the elimination of CW testing, easier exams, and elimination of the CW sub-bands then I support them 100%. I am signing up to become a member. > <<<<
>The ARRL HQ staffer who represents ARRL at the NCVEC abstained from voting for the NCVEC petition.<
Silence is consent. Thanks ARRL.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WA4MJF on August 9, 2003
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Absent a specific organizational rule that
an abstention is to be counted as a yes,
it is an abstention, meaning not counted one
way or the other.
I'm sure that had the NCVEC had the rule that an abstention is to be counted as a yes, then Burt woulda voted no, as ARRL currently has a keep code policy.
This policy may be changed in January at the next
Board meeting.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 9, 2003
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> Silence is consent. Thanks ARRL.
The nice thing about silence is that you can claim that it means anything you want it to mean.
I believe it meant that the ARRL staffer who was present believed that he should not make a decision to support or oppose a major rulemaking that should be decided by the ARRL Board of Directors.
That Board is asking right now for hams to tell them what they feel about code testing. Those that presume consent, or presume opposition, and thus not giving their input to their ARRL directors are going to let others steer the ship in their direction. Tom Frenaye, the NE Division Director, told me that he has not received much input. That, of course, gives my input all the more weight, so if you don't agree with me, you should tell your director what you feel to cancel my input. :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by CWTITAN on August 9, 2003
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The ARRL is all we have left. I agree many non members do as much or more than the ARRL, but right now we need the ARRL in Washington. Which one of you would take their place?? which one of you will protect Ham Radio??? come on now, lets be realistic.
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KG4OOA on August 9, 2003
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NVEC has done the deed. In my estimation ARRL has their hand up the ass of that puppet. Now they try to play both sides of the fence. There we go again, with friends like that who needs enemies.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WR8D on August 10, 2003
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You really are pompous aren't you. All full of yourself. Pull your head out of your ass and take a look at the "old timers" that have dropped out of the arrl. You can fast talk all you want that doesnt impress me at all or change a thing. You guys are for "yourselves". You dont lift a finger unless it makes "you" a buck. Anything you do is directed at helping sell more radios so arrl can get the kick backs. From your comments to me i see you have already taken steps to see how big the market is. You quoted numbers of "cbers" so i guess you are exactly aware of just how much more money you fools can make by selling your hobby out. Just to make a buck you'll help do away with the code..probably down the road you'll do away with the test and just let them write in for a ticket like they did in the 70's..You really are a piece of work. Sheep are easily led but you cant do wrong and get by...not for long and this will catch up with all of you . . . and yes you are
"Pitiful"
Oh and thanks for reading:
WR8D:
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 11, 2003
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<<Anything you do is directed at helping sell more radios so arrl can get the kick backs>>
Oh yeah, sure, ARRL kickbacks. All that money that goes to those ARRL officers WHO ARE VOLUNTEERS. And did you see that Cadillac SUV with a professionally mounted IC-781 that Ed W1RFI was using for his BPL tests? Oh man, the ARRL must be giving him A TON O' MONEY.
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by AC0X on August 11, 2003
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(For those on this forum who are satircally challanged, I was being sarcastic. If you haven't seen the video, Ed W1RFI's car is probably older than the the age of most first time drivers, and he was using an old TS-440 on a shaky wooden stand. Thank god he didn't stop short, or it would've probably gone through the windshield)
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 11, 2003
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The vehicle is my wife's 1989 Subaru, 208,000 miles on it now. It is my best vehicle, as anyone who has seen my pickup and Jeep can attest.
The stand was only "shaky" because it was just setting on the seat. It was actually hand-crafted from furniture-grade maple and cherry I scrounged from a local cabinet shop, planed into strips, glued up "Butcher-block style" and made into a rather sturdy cabinet.
But it all got the job done. I may go back with a "PRO" because the visual effect of the band scope will be rather dramatic. I am sure I can borrow one from W1AW. :-) My plans are to revisit the test areas before the 20th. This one had been on such a fast track that when the reply comment date was 8/6, I was literally under the gun and had to work fast. It took a fair amount of time to build the resources in preparation for all of ARRL's work -- imagine the time that went into http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc alone, or the time to do the EZNEC runs for ARRL's technical filing alone!
Even with the extension the FCC gave, this one is still a hot issue, so between now and the 20th, I want to do more testing, document same, wrap up two major technical papers, and get a technical analysis of the filed comments to our DC office.
Good thing for ARRL that I am on salary, because the OT would break the bank pretty quick. But when they made me Lab Dad, they started paying me for what I do, not for the hours it takes me to do it. :-)
I already told my boss that when this is over, I plan on at least a few "short" workdays to make it up to myself. :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by NN6EE on August 11, 2003
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Hiya Bob!!!
In essence you're right in stating that the ARRL does not represent a plurality of American Amateur Radio Operators in that they only REPRESENT 22.5% of licensed Hams!!! That's actually PISS poor
The question is: "WHY AREN'T MORE REPRESENTED???"
Eventhough I've tried to correspond with them many times about things on my mind THEY'VE NEVER LISTENED!!!
Now is that anyway to run a Free and open Democratic institution??? NO!!!
The ARRL is failing miserably in listening to "ALL MEMBERS" and it will be their ultimate demise unless they get their collective "Poop" together and take ALL OPINIONS into consideration!!!
I'm a member of the ARRL whether anyone likes it or not and I expect MY opinions to be heard like all of the individuals who want to be Sheep do!!!
Regards,
Jim Davis/nn6ee
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by KC8VWM on August 11, 2003
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One user wrote: (no name mentioned :)
Does this perhaps suggest that there are different levels of "being a ham" based on membership to any particular organization? >
Not according to Part 97. It is a choice about how much value they want to see ARRL provide to amateur radio.
Right now, I am mighty pleased that 160,000 hams have made the choice to give ARRL the resources to address the BPL issue.
Does it really get much better than that? :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
Reply:
I am happy to support ARRL and would like to see more Non-Hams support ARRL too!
I will do my part, cause I KNOW ARRL is doing theirs.
Does it get better than that? :)
73
KC8VWM
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by NN6EE on August 11, 2003
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Curious though!!!
How many EHam users bothered to make comments on the "OFFICIAL FCC WEBPAGE" about "BPL" instead of only complaining about it out here???
I for one did give them (FCC) about how I felt on their comment page and there was'nt any bad language from us to them, only facts!!!
Jim/nn6ee
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by WR8D on August 11, 2003
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Hum...you must be one of those "sheep" that other fellow was talking about. Whats that on your nose? Arrl "brown" This isnt really very mental so you guys just keep sending in the money but at least keep your eyes and ears open. Watch what happens to the bands shortly...Remember when it happens..good ole arrl is all for it. Next thing you know we'll have to put roger beeps on our hf gear to make the cber's feel more at home. Thats where all the good fellowship has gone. Its not about feeling that you're better than someone just because you hold a higher ticket than they. Its knowing that you've been sold out by the folks in Ct. Think about it next time you're in the extra class part of 80 meters and you hear 10-4. Think about it when you're on a 2 meter machine and hear cb handles. Good ole arrl really going to bat for us. Drop the standards some more heck there's millions of them still out there that dont have enough brain power to pass it just yet. Make it easier ...the big three in radio will line your pockets some more.
Wake up and smell the roses!
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by X-WB1AUW on August 12, 2003
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Wheeeeew John!
Sometimes I think you’ve gone beyond the pale of rationality?
73
Bob
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RE: Is 'Nothing' Better?
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by W1RFI on August 12, 2003
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Not to spoil a perfectly good rant, but ..
ARRL's policy about code testing has not been changed. The Board of Directors is asking for input on the matter. Are you going to drop out now and leave the input to those with different views than yours?
When restructuring was on the regulatory plate, ARRL asked the FCC that the level of the written exams be increased.
ARRL continues to publish technical books, articles and material.
ARRL continues to create technical on-line courses.
ARRL has made 600+ technical articles available for download on its Technical Information Service web pages at http://www.arrl.org/tis.
I can't wait to read how you spin all that into "dumbing down." :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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