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DXers That Don't QSL...
Ian Shrader (W7IAN)
on
August 23, 2003
View comments about this article!
Looking back through my logbook, I wish there was a list of DXers that don't reply to QSLs. I don't have a problem if they let it known they don't QSL but many ask to send green stamps and never reply. I have so many dollars and IRC's out there and a few of these ops I have sent several times to. Tried emailing several to ask if my QSL and dollars arrived and of course they won't answer email either. -- I just wish I had advance notice that some ops are notorious dollar collectors...
Ian W7IAN
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by KC0KVU on August 23, 2003
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Can't argue with that. My first international contact didn't reply, even w/IRC. However, IMHO, I'll give a lot of leeway when international mail is concerned. Especially when its to an op in a lesser industrialized country, country in turmoil, etc. Sometimes they just don't get there. I've also heard, many times, not to put calls on the envelope since some postal workers in DX areas have discovered Callsign=Green Stamps.
Consider at the very least, your own personal satisfaction of reaching that DX station. Canada is still DX for my modest station!
73
Adam, KCØKVU
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by DOODAH on August 23, 2003
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Some of us just want to use our radios, and hate mucking about with postcards, handwriting, stamps, the postal system in general.
What a pity "NO QSL" has two meanings!
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W8FAX on August 23, 2003
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I am mostly impressed by the fellers who are using Icom 765proII rigs, Alpha amps, a tri-bander at 100 feet, ask you to QSL with a greenie only, and then send your reply via the buro. Guess we all gotta make it somehow??? USA operators are the worst QSL'ers there are. Many will not respond even with SASE and a buc or two. But, like I said, often your DX QSL will drag in via the buro, even tho' you sent a stamp. It just takes a loooong time, so don't get in a hurry. Good luck........
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by KB9YUR on August 23, 2003
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Is it because some are getting lazy ?!? After having spent hundreds, even thousands of
dollars on radio equipment, maybe there's no money left !?! That's really no excuse
if a SASE is sent with the QSL card. Not everyone can accomplish WAS in a weekend!
I'm still waiting for some cards on QSO's I made over 6 months ago ...
George ...
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by KZ9G on August 23, 2003
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Guys, none of us are perfect... I've missed replying to a few cards while a DX station in Alaska and Sicily. This operation lasted 8 years, and sometimes you just miss a few due to other important life events. Please always remember that a gentle reminder can't hurt either. BTW, I remember many instances where return cards took YEARS to get. So... have patience and trudge on. 73.
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by W1WN on August 23, 2003
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I guess I'm old fashioned. I've been licensed for 33 years and I always QSL. Like most I have spent considerable sums to get on the honor roll and almost attain 5B DXCC. I agree that in some third world countries the mail system is unreliable. However, I can't seem to obtain an 80 or 40 meter card from England, Wales, Italy or France. I'm glad I'm almost there.
Oh well, its still a great hobby and the majority of hams are honest and work hard to QSL.
Best 73's
W1WN
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by N1RWC on August 23, 2003
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I'll add in this. I have had QSL Cards arrive within a month of the QSO, and then I am still awaiting a QSL from a JA back in December of 2001. Some QSL Cards I have received are Quality printed, others done on a computer.
I had a conversation with a Ham, his call was NV1C at the time, and he commented about QSL Cards, basically the point was if the sending station was good enough to send out a QSL Card to you, then you HAVE to send them one back, otherwise you are going to be known as the station that never replies, and after awhile, no one will QSO with you because of the lack of QSLing.
Since I talked with him about QSLing, if I work DX, I always QSL, and 99% of the time I get cards back within a month.
But it also depends on the OM at the other end also.
73 Matt N1RWC
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by KR2Q on August 23, 2003
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Gee whiz...I get way too many qsls.
Anyhow, most qsl's from DX come via the buro, especially the "common" stuff. Don't waste your dollars (nobody wants IRCs - they're worthless) trying get a "common" country DX qsl - make sure your local QSL bureau knows who you are and that YOU know what their expectations are (do they want you to have envelopes on file or do they want you to have $$ on file, etc.).
HINT: During your qso, mention to the guy that you would to like to QSL direct and ASK HIM/HER if they will qsl in kind. Let them know you just want an honest answer. I can't believe they will lie to you. Also, while you're at it, CONFIRM their mailing address.
Also, are you sending them the CORRECT SIZED ENVELOPE? The stuff they require overseas is often very different than what we commonly use in the USA. I think they are called C6 size. They measure 6.5 inches wide by 4.5 iches tall. Use AIRMAIL envelopes with "camophlage" so nobody can see the contents. BE sure to "hide" the dollar bill inside your folded-in-half inner SASE along with your qsl. And, of course, use GMT and not local time and spell out the month or use a Roman Numeral for the month.
Most qsl's that you will "really" want (not common countries) have a qsl manager. Make sure you know that and don't waste your time qsling "direct" if that is the case.
I've been doing this since 1966 for more awards than I care to think about. With QRO, I got DXCC Honor Roll #1 and 5 Band DXCC (actually, 6 band). I got 300 confirmed the second time around with qrp/5 watts...got all the qsls. I got 250 confirmed the third time around with QRPp (300 milliwatts). I just can't imagine having no success with qsling.
I get zillions of qsls via the bureau when I enter a DX contest...I never solicit those. Oh well...maybe one of these tips will work for you. It seems that you ust be something "wrong."
Good Luck...
de Doug KR2Q
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by K0BG on August 23, 2003
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In the last batch of cards I got from the bureau, I received one from a Russian operator I worked in 1991. This speaks volumes.
Alan, KØBG
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by OBSERVER9 on August 23, 2003
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my all time favorites are the DX stations that SELL QSL Cards... they want TWO US Dollars, then they return a card via the buro.
No wonder "they" do not want eQSL... When I retire, I plan to move to some exotic land, set up a decent station, and sell QSL cards... I figure that 20k contacts per year, $2 or $3 per contact, plus my retirement, some cheap place to live.... yep, thats the plan... maybe buy an oil platform off the coast and call myself a new country.
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by NE1RD on August 23, 2003
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I wish there was more general acceptace for electronic
QSLing. While we should not condone those who simply
pocket the greenbacks they receive without producing a
card, I can understand how the paperwork associated with
generating hundreds or even thousands of QSLs per month
might be daunting.
That's where the eQSL model helps. Yes, it isn't as fun as
getting the card in the mail but you've got to admit the
whole thing is easier and faster. I upload my log. They
upload their log, and voila! we have QSL! The cost is
minimal compared to postage. And, the fact that it might
not be "officially sanctioned" by the ARRL doesn't reduce
the value of the QSO or the fun of the operating. Why
shouldn't an electronic QSL be as valuable?
I like eQSL. I like the whole concept. Of course the ARRL
Logbook of the World, copying the eQSL model, will be
another option if they ever get out of Beta (and, assuming
they don't run into patent problem from obviously ripping
off eQSL). Either way, I think we've seen the future. Or,
at least I hope so.
-- Scott (NE1RD)
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by N2ERN on August 23, 2003
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There are a few notorious stations, like one I'm thinking of on Reunion Island, but fortunately, they are few and far between.
And as far as "selling" cards (for $2), well a buck just doesn't pay for postage in many parts of the world any more. In 1983, when I got licensed, a dollar was the rule. Twenty years later, I wish that EVERYTHING had only doubled in price.
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by WN3VAW on August 23, 2003
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Some amateurs simply could care less about dealing with the paper work, be they domestic or stateside. I've even gone so far as not only sending an SAE+GS or SASE, but even preparing (via computer) a card that all they had to do was sign and mail back. Some just won't. Period.
The sad part is that a few of this minority are active contesters, not just DX'ers. They beg you for that all important QSO during the contest, but when you ask for that return QSL, all you get are excuses. I've heard from the operators or managers of about a half dozen stations who have all sorts of creative excuses to justify why they don't want to be bothered. To my mind, this is just plain wrong. Dealing with cards can be a chore, yes, but it is (or should be) part of the deal; if you don't want to QSL, then don't operate.
Side note to NE1RD: Couldn't you have posted your comments without the League bashing? Or are you another blind eQSL zealot? Logbook of the World is NOT a rip-off of eQSL (you want to speak of rip offs? how about charging people $1 or $2 to mail "QSL cards" generated from the up-loaded logs, all without bothering to ask the permission of the station you're sending those cards out for... or giving them a cut...) as the two systems serve two different purposes, granted with some overlap. Electronic logging on-line existed well before eQSL -- and LotW as advertised is not going to be used to generate "electronic QSL" .jpg files (it's primary purpose is to help people earn ARRL sponsored awards). And I wouldn't crow too much those alleged "patents" -- eQSL is a very basic and straight forward database application, and I really doubt that eQSL could patent something that could be done in dBase II in the early '80's!
73, ron wn3vaw
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by KQ7W on August 23, 2003
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There are lots of people willing to be qsl managers, they actually enjoy filling in cards and doing the paperwork for other stations
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W4VR on August 23, 2003
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Send me a SASE and I'll send you a nice picture QSL card. Better yet, send me a card via eQSL and I'll reply right away.
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by EA1BP on August 23, 2003
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Hello,
I dont think to fill a QSL is problem, or even 100 per month...if you really like this hobby you dont care about anything!!
I dont think to ask for help to a QSL manager (There are lots) cant be a problem.
I dont think to be member of a Bureau cant be a problem. For example you can be member of ARRL, RSGB, URE,... and they can manage your QSLs. I started in this hobby with 15 years old, and now Im 27 and I am member of the Spanish Bureau since then. I hadnt many resources, but I could pay to be member of my bureau.
The QSL is just only a piece of paper, but a great value for someone who collect them, just the photo on it, the new DXCC, or just the memories of that contact.
Experience is telling me that the Bureaus are working. The only thing is not working is the people who dont send QSL.
Use the bureaus!!! and only $ or IRC for Dxpeditions or to operators that we know are serious. How?? With all bulletins we can collect in the internet, magazines,...but basically to serious operators!!
My advice is "Keep your $ and IRCs to improve your antennas...and after that you will find more people from that place that you are paying for it now".
Use your Bureau!!
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by KG6AMW on August 23, 2003
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When do you decide the other station didn't QSL? If its less than two years ago, then your expecting too much. Perhaps sending a second card at the end of the second year would be appropriate. I would say, after 4 years you can the other station didn't QSL. If they don't, well that's the cost of doing business.
KG6AMW
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by N9DO on August 23, 2003
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Yep, I can relate to the poor qsling from DX stations. However I must say I've never been denied a QSL from a DXpedition that I made a legimate contact with. They have always sent a card. My pet peeve is the stateside stations that leave the country for a while and operate DX using their home address for a QSL drop and then NEVER return a QSL that is sent for with an appropriate sase and green stamp. Stung several times, but never again.
N9DO
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by K9TTT on August 23, 2003
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""I think they are called C6 size. They measure 6.5 inches wide by 4.5 iches tall. Use AIRMAIL envelopes with "camophlage" so nobody can see the contents. BE sure to "hide" the dollar bill inside your folded-in-half inner SASE along with your qsl.""
Europe and Japan generally use these larger format (4x6) card styles. Don't get bent cards, and stolen $$ from postal employees (commonly known as thieves). Use a "nested" envelope that lays flat inside your mailing envelope, so that it doen'st give away the contents. They are available from several sources (I won't do the advertising here) that can be located on the internet.
I have been using nested envelopes with sase (using forein stamps) also available on the 'net for several years now and have been suprised at the increased rate of return. However the buro envelope is still a highlight in the mail!
If you need names of suppliers email me personally.
Good Luck!
73's
Dale K9TTT <k9ttt@earthlink.net>
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by N6AJR on August 23, 2003
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I usually buy a box of 500 # 10 legal sized encelops with the security printing that bloks the view inside the envelope. I run these through the computer and print my return address on the upper left corner. I then buy a box of 500 # 6 3/4 envelopes which are about 6 inches long and fit inside the number 10's quite well. I run these through the computer and print my mailing address in the lower right center of the card (including the U.S.A.) and these are ready for the return trip to me.
If it is a standard stateside contact I put a stamp on both, and put in the filled out card and mail them. If it is going overseas I put in a dollar or two, inside the small envelope along with the qsl card. I then seal it in the big envelope and check at least 2 places to find the best address, or qsl manager. You can not see in through the security print even if you hold it up to a bright lite.
I never put a call sign on the outside of either envelope. I then put a little tape on the back of the putside envelope, because sometimes the glue ain't so hot...
I then take them to the PO and put them into the box.
If I am just sending a local or stateside card that I really don't need a responce then I send the qsl card as a post card and mail it out that way. I try to send 100% except for contests, then I pick and choos unless some one needs mine for a grid square or such.
Another tip is to buy ar roll of the current class A postage, and a roll of the postcard stamps. This way I get pretty good postage for having only 2 kinds of stamps. A post card is 23 cents, a letter is 37 cents, post card to canada and mexico is exctly one of each per envelope, (60 cents). I don't mail postcards over seas.
A letter to canada and mexico is 70 centsand the rest are 80 cents so I use a 37 and 2 23 for all. This works pretty well. I hope this helps.
You all have fun and remember, dx is fun and so is getting the returns, and save the stamps you recieve for the collectors, every one knows some one who saves stamps.
tom N6AJR
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by X-WB1AUW on August 23, 2003
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Save your money.
QSL via the buro, to managers, or thru a stateside collection and forwarding service.
Look at "Top 100" (most needed countries lists) to see what the most difficult are to get.
Look at the OPDX weekly lists of "on the air".
425DX news lists QSLs received, and how long.
Have FUN
Bob
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by 2E1SDX on August 23, 2003
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sent 50 qsl,s out once and i recieved 10 back so now when a station asks to qsl i just say i am happy for the chat...same goes for north korea
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by NE1RD on August 23, 2003
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-- Ron (wn3vaw) wrote--
Side note to NE1RD: Couldn't you have posted your comments without the League bashing? Or are you another blind eQSL zealot? Logbook of the World is NOT a rip-off of eQSL...
--
Ummm... I read my post again and I don't think I was bashing the ARRL. In fact, I was trying to make the point that once the LotW is finally out of Beta that it will be another alternative.
For the record, I'm a happy ARRL member. I use the BURO. I check the website daily. I use the email redirector on arrl.net. I think they do a good job.
As for being a "blind eQSL zealot", well, I'm not a zealot and (thankfully) there is nothing wrong with my eyesight that reading glasses can't correct. But, thanks for asking.
Finally, as to the point of the intellectual property aspects of this, at this point it is a matter of opinion. Certainly eQSL was first to create a new mechanism for doing this. It is an improvement to an existing process, and, perhaps, could be protected by a patent. Or not. I'm not a patent lawyer. My point is only that one came before the other and they look suspiciously similar. Perhaps my selection of the word "ripoff" was unfortunate. That single word was meant to convey the above. Now, I guess, it can.
Sorry the terseness of my previous message caused some confusion. I hope this helps clarify my position.
73!
-- Scott (NE1RD)
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by W7IAN on August 24, 2003
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Hi
Well a few of the stations that I qsled direct to in the Middle East were in 1997, sent 3 times direct to each of them with 2 dollars each time and I used the airmail envelopes. I don't mind if they don't qsl its when they say on the air "qsl direct" and then won't reply.I also figure that maybe mail gets stolen in some countries but see a lot of other dxers that get ripped by these same few and yet others that live in the same country appear to get their mmail with no problem. The two ops in the Middle East have email listed on QRZ and they won't answer emails either. The other famous op that is mentioned earlier in Reunion Island is another gem that does the same thing. I don't mind the "cost of doing business" so to speak but wish they had been honest about not qsling up front. I now have 322 countries confirmed so don't bother with some of these ops now. I also use a qsl manager database and look at a lot of the dxnewsletters to update the qsl manager database but as mentioned by another comment on this page there shouldn't be a problem qsling, sit down and do a few each night and if you just want to ragchew and not qsl be up front with it, add a note on QRZ. Just hope others don't qsl these deadbeats that collect the dollars. Luckily there are only a few that do this constantly.
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by W7IAN on August 24, 2003
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Hi Steve
I think a lot of guys have missed a qsl here and there but the fellas I'm mentioning have missed 100's if not thousands. I can think of 3 or 4 DX ops that appear to be in it for the cash. I think their reputation is starting to get around among some of the dxers.
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by W7IAN on August 24, 2003
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Hi Alan K0BG
I too have gotten qsls from the bureau that take forever, got one last month from a qso in 1992. But the fellas I'm talking about say they qsl direct on the air and just appear to collect the dollars. In fact one of these ops [that I sent direct to with 2 dollars 3 times in 3 years]I caught on 20 meters last year and after he came back to my call I asked him about the qsl, he acted like he couldn't copy me and moved on to the pile up.
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by AB7JK on August 24, 2003
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People who expect qsl cards are in the wrong hobby - get a pen pal...people who make contacts to get certificates (All Tazmanian Witchdoctor Award, One One-Hundredth Watt WAS , 5 Band Worked All Zones, etc) are misguided putting it nicely. Who are they trying to impress, who cares but them, and are their lives that empty and meaningless? What kind of goals are those to set? How about using half the time they waste trying to get those certificates spending time with their teenagers so they don't commit suicide or run away?
Why don't you use that time standing up to the people trying to remove morality from our behavior and replace it with their own brand of "religion"? Yeah you!
Tired of psychotics in Florida
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by N6HPX on August 24, 2003
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I have worked many on Dx as well and I have sent out over 2000 cards either direct to the station or via the buros but never got many in return. My collection is just now starting to pick up after nearly 2 years of waiting and I reply as fast as I can.I work for the US Government and I travel alot. My mail takes about 40 days to catch up with me.
I have a return of 500 so far,and I hope to get more soon.
I also have trouble with IRCs as many Navy post offices in some over seas countries won't except em.But I pull out of pocket to send back the cards.
I oftemget ones from people I never worked and usually send em back as soon as I can.
Larry Fields,n6hpx/du1
Cavite,Philippines
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by ZC4CW on August 24, 2003
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Collecting cards has never appealed to me. That being said, I realise that many people want a card and I've appointed a QSL manager to take care of this aspect. However, looking at a rate of 500 qso's a week, even if a low percentage QSL I'm still not going to cover my costs with many cards coming via the bureau. After being called again today by another station who's first and only enquiry was my qsl information, I'm wondering if people think my only existence in life is to churn out QSL cards for people? What about MY ham radio interests? While that QSL card may be important to you, it's one among hundreds (soon to be thousands) to my manager. I cannot condone dollar collecting, but more perspective on the actualities and obligations of being DX would be welcome.
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by N2ERN on August 24, 2003
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I'm not making excuses for anyone, but, sometimes, mail just doesn't get to the addressee. If a ham call is on the envelope, or if the recipient is known to the locals to be a ham, especially in third-world countries, the envelopes sometimes just don't make it to the other end -- even if it's a PO box -- because there may be money in it.
For example, I send cards out for IOTA contacts on behalf of a Russian friend of over 10 years. He gets Russian cards for me, and I get US cards for him. (A good deal that helped me toward that old Worked All Oblast award.) Never had a problem. BUT, the last batch of six or so cards, which I mailed at the Post office two months ago, never made it to him. Maybe the fat envelope did it. I just don't know.
Yes, there are deadbeats, but sometimes, bad things happen to good people.
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by W8JI on August 24, 2003
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I recently received an unsealed envelope with zero cards inside from my bureau, and it must have been a great quantity of cards. The large envelope had more than $3 worth of postage.
The post office, if they find loose cards in bins, has a policy of destroying them at the end of each day. This is true even with cards lost from first class or registered mail. Once outside the envelope, they consider a QSL trash.
I used to only QSL 160 contacts, direct cards with SASE, QRP cards, or cards that specifically stated my county or state was needed. Now I am responding 100% to all cards except USA without a return envelope.
People also might not realize how many cards are sent to active stations, even regular old USA stations.
My actual cost to send our bureau cards is well over a dollar a card when I have a $6.50/hour neighbor girl process the cards, and include all expenses. I send out about 2000-3000 cards a year if I QSL 100%.
Imagine what a DX station gets!
If I really want a card, I send it direct with a return envelope and money. I get about 80% return that way. When I get my house worked on, I have a zero percent return for paying a deposit in advance.
My conclusion is Hams are more honest than locksmiths, handymen, and even licensed builders. They also expect a great deal more from other Hams than they would from other people.
73 Tom
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by WB2GOF on August 24, 2003
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I don't QSL. To me, this hobby is strictly for the fun of it. I don't have the $$$ nor the impetus to make up cards and respond to every contact I make, especially now that logging all contacts is no longer a requirement. Everyone has a different idea of what this hobby should be about. To me, QSL'ers are my father's generation of Amateur Radio Ops. The same ones who bitch and moan about IRLP and modern "plug 'N play" radios.
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by KG4WBH on August 24, 2003
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I will send a card to every contact that I make because it is fun for me to do it. I don't care about the money, I will make more money since I have a job. I like to read the cards on occasion and it is fun to look at all the different cards that I have got. I will admit that I have had "some" not make it back to me, but I am not bitter about it. I have four cards towards my DXCC and I have only been on HF since Febuary!! One day I will get some sort of cool award but until then I will just talk on my radio instead.
It seems I can't get a Cuban card either, two different chats with two different stations and no cards back yet. But it is OK. The bureau sounds pretty good to me as well, but I like to write messeges on my cards so that is out of the question.
Now, go get on the air and have a little fun.
73
David Saylors
KG4WBH
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by NN6EE on August 24, 2003
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To get DXCC I've spent a heck of a lot of money up until now and don't really worry about it, but if I mail out a QSL es money and I don't get a reply then I get pissed-off like anyone else would, as it's HARD enough working some of these guys, but when you do and then mail them all that's required and you still don't get a card then you really do get ticked-off and righty so!!!
I've probably have got 5 juicy ones out there I'd like to have gotten cards from, but so far NOTHING!!! Even after 1yr!!!
Jim/nn6ee
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W7IAN on August 24, 2003
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I agree with the bogus calls. Don't think the spot from op in Florida is legit. No matter how hot the sun gets down there. He must own a hat.
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by XE1UFO on August 24, 2003
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I had too sell out my station a few years ago due to a family medical situation. As a DX catch for many, (and also author of the world's only Worked All UFO's Diploma)I used to get a lot of cards.
I tried to answer as many as possible BUT:
-My finances are limited and many included no green stamp or return envelope.
-I recieved a couple with a return envelopes ... that came back because the ham had moved.
-Several came with U.S. stamps, so I would have to wait untill someone was going State-side to mail them.
-Several sent cards for non-existing contacts. One LID sent cards for 5 different bands and I had never worked him ...
Here's a cincher: (Lord, please forgive me!) one LID from Georgia kept deliberatly breaking in when I was trying to work Ethiopia. I asked him to PSE stand by and await his turn. He didn't, but sent a card with a green stamp and return envelope ... which I used to mail him his much-deserved LID Award!
Oh, friends: I always make a special effort to answer letters from short wave listeners. That is how I got started in ham radio!
is first.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by RFSOAKED on August 24, 2003
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I have always had good luck with QSL return rates, at least 90% or better.
Perhaps it depends on the situation? I know that i get stiffed on cards a lot when there is some kind of contest going on, some contesters are known for collecting QSL's without a return of the favor.
OH well, its kind of like putting a quarter in a slot machine, you never know what might happen! HI HI
73
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by ZL2DX on August 25, 2003
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It's easy to make a lot of qso's during a 48 hour contest but the qsl's just keep coming and the cost and the amount of work to reply to them just outweighs the enjoyment of the contest and the operating.
Chris ZL2DX
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W9WHE on August 25, 2003
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What we need is "dead-beatQSL.com".
I'm tired of sending, multiple times, $$ to stations that just keep my money. I would PAY to be a member and have access to such information!
Most active QSLing hams would pay $5-10 per year for access to a site that would save them many times that amount.
Is there a web-savvy ham that wants to start the site?
I have a bunch of dead-beats to identify! and I will be pay member #1!
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by AC7NA on August 25, 2003
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I'm a casual operator and I QSL 100%. I don't expect a 100% return, but I remember the days when the general rule was "a card sent is a card returned." This wasn't back in the days of spark either, we're talking the 80's here. I wasn't an award chaser back then, but since returning to the hobby several years ago, I've decided to take a stab at getting some wallpaper for the shack.
If I want a card for a QSO (currently working on 5BWAS), I ask for it during the contact and even offer a SASE. I've found that many times once the offer is made, the guy on the other end tells me a SASE is not necessary. I've even had a couple unused stamps returned to me. Most are happy to give me a QSL and be my first confirmed contact for that band, and I would certainly reciprocate under the same circumstances.
As far as expense is concerned, I don't use envelopes unless I'm sending a SASE. That's 23 cents vs. 74 cents for a SASE. I still enjoy receiving QSLs in the mail and will be sorry when everything goes online. I've tried eQSL, but it's just not the same for me. I use the buro, but lately it appears to be a one-way street. I've been burned several times by well-known DXers (including several DXpedtions) and have decided not to QSL direct for DX contacts anymore, and I sympathize with hard-core DXers who spend a lot of money in pursuit of their hobby. I have also noted (as have others) that U.S. DXers are among the worst QSLers for domestic contacts.
I still log manually, and fill out the card at the same time I'm making the log entry, and don't understand those who complain about paperwork. Those with high QSO rates generally log via software, which handles QSLing automatically.
Bottom line for me is to not to be shy to ask for a QSL card. I've even sent "DIY fill in" cards in a SASE to operators who don't have their own QSLs because it's not something they are intersted in (and that's fine by me). Perhaps I'm too tolerant, but for some this is just a hobby and I respect that. You have to do what's fun and satisfying to YOU, and make the best of what develops.
73
Brian AC7NA
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by N5KA on August 25, 2003
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Quote - What we need is "dead-beatQSL.com".
GOOD IDEA. With some good guidelines about minimum time periods per complaint and minimum number of complaints, this could work, and I would subscribe.
I do think it would have to be at least 2 cards sent over a 12 month period and at least 6 months since last submission before I would like to see a "non QSLer" call on that list - it does take that long sometimes.
As for the guy who says he will NOT QSL, that is OK with me if you tell people that up front - my log has several such notations and I do not send to or request cards from such people.
73 Henri
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W7IAN on August 25, 2003
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W9WHE
You may be on to something. Its too bad there wasn't a site as to save some DXers dollars sending to ops that won't reply. I have only run into a handful that seem to be in it for the money but some type of listing so as to give a warning to others would be nice. The handful I ran into are the ops that work as many as they can when on and ask to send direct with dollars and never reply. I have tried several times to these ops and the qsl I sent was at least 5 years ago in each case , followed by others over next couple of years.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W9WHE on August 25, 2003
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What I propose is:
1)Hams report to the site EACH time they send a QSL (SASE and 1$) to the DX station AND more than 9 months has passed without a return. (That is my definition of "dead-beat".)
2) Each DX station would have a total number of "dead-beat" reports. Each ham could then make his/her own decision as to whether or not to send $$.
3) My hunch is that once the QSL $$$ dried up, most dead-beat DX stations would begin QSLing to re-start the flow of $$.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W2CZ on August 25, 2003
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I don't think they are deadbeats. They are theives...hey even I'll protect the guilty but so much.Reminds me of the V*tican City (QTH disguised to protect the guilty) ham who ask that I follow QSL route listed on his QRZ page. Enclosed green stamps and guess what....nothing!
Sad but I guess it is a reflection of society. But if you don't QSL please let me know. I'll still send you a QSL as my way of saying thanks, I just won't bother to send a green stamp.
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by W8FAX on August 25, 2003
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All you ops who think there should be a web site for QSL bums, why don't you get together and start one?????
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by K1MKF on August 26, 2003
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It's easy for me to say I QSL 100% - nobody wants my QSL!
I imagine that if everytime I get on the air there is a pile up and a few months later a pile of QSLs arrive I might get a liitle behind or giveup QSLing altogether.
But, there is no excuse for keeping someones QSL and $ or IRC. Just stuff his QSL back in the SAE and send it back.
MarkF
k1mkf
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by KB6FPR on August 26, 2003
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I would gladly pay to subscribe to a website listing "dead beat" hams that don't return a QSL, yet keep the green stamps. I had just about given up on Russia, but just got a card from there. Now if only I could get a return card out of Cuba or Guyana...........I'm not sending any more green stamps to those places, its a waste of my money.
73's
KB6FPR
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by KB6FPR on August 26, 2003
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I would gladly pay to subscribe to a website listing "dead beat" hams that don't return a QSL, yet keep the green stamps. I had just about given up on Russia, but just got a card from there. Now if only I could get a return card out of Cuba or Guyana...........I'm not sending any more green stamps to those places, its a waste of my money.
73's
KB6FPR
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by SM0JHF on August 27, 2003
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The title of this thread or article: DXers That Don't QSL is confusing. Who are the DXers ? Those chasing DX stations or ... ?
Maybe you mean "DX stations" that don't QSL.
I stopped collecting QSL cards at least 10 years ago since there is no value in having a confirmation of a radio contact in writing. Particularly when this "writing" is a computer generated label on an anonymous piece of paper, both orignating from the USA or some European country - this QSL card has nothing to do with the DX country it is "confirming". Originally the QSL card served a purpose - at the time of pioneering. Today during a major contest over a weekend there is maybe as many as one million QSOs conducted. It is as easy as making a phone call. Do you want a QSL card for every phone call you make ? (well, you get a bill)
I respect that other people want QSL card and print a few thousand cards each year. However, the cost of sending these cards is much too high. Yet, I do respond to all requests. One dollar gives about 8 Swedish Krona, the postage for any letter outside of Sweden is 10 Swedish Krona. I pay for every direct QSL request that includes one dollar. Why ? OK, some people send 2 dollars so I am not spending much of my own money. But on the other hand some people send wrong IRC's, some send SASE with 3 krona stamps, some send one dollar but want several cards, their weight exceeding the basic 20grammes postage rate, etc.
I am sure there are people who never respond to QSL requests, they just collect the money. But not all "DXers", those who chase DX, are allright either.
A website with suitable information will definitely help, information about those who do not respond properly but also information on how to request cards.
I would suggest using the services of Les WF5E in Texas. He has long experience of DX stations and knows who responds and who does not. I think a card forwarded by Les costs only 25 cents. Most likely well spent money.
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by W4KVS on August 27, 2003
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I know that there are some stations that do not QSL but posting calls most likely would be unfair. I have seen spots where there is a short editorial about saving your money, station does not QSL, etc. Quite ofen I look at the call and immediately recognize a station I have worked - and received a card. Numerous stations I have had to send twice but ended up getting a card - the obvious implication here is that either my card never made it the first time or the return card never made it back. Some requests do appear to go nowhere but I think we are better off working another station than having a list of DXers who do not QSL. 73 de W4KVS
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by NE0P on August 28, 2003
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How about USA stations which won't QSL. Back in November of 2001 I worked a station in ND on 2 meter Meteor Scatter. A new grid and state on that band. Sent a QSL with a SASE. Nothing. Sent another QSL with a SASE, and sent him an email telling him to look for it. No QSL, and no reply to my email, and it didn't bounce. Tried once again. Printed out a card with his Call and contact details on it. He just had to sign it and return it in the SASE. Sent him another email. Still no return, either for card or email. Of course you go to his website, and he has a great picture of his shack, and of his QSL!! That must have been the only one he printed, as he won't send me one.
Anyone going to Bismark,ND anytime soon that would like to knock on a door? Maybe a phone call would do it, or maybe it would piss him off enough that I would never get a card (like I am going to get one anyway).
So why would a US station act this way? I hope our postal system doesn't have that much theft.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W9WHE on August 28, 2003
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W4KVS writes:
"I know that there are some stations that do not QSL but posting calls most likely would be unfair".
Unfair?
What is "unfair" about collecting reports of stations that do not QSL? What is "unfair" about giving people information and letting them decide whether or not to send $$? I would analogize "dead-beatQSL.com" to a credit reporting agency. Kinda like the Fox network...."Dead-beatQSL.com" reports, you decide whether to send your $$.
To me, "unfair" is asking for a greenstamps then not returning a QSL! Now, that's unfair!
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by K4RLC on August 28, 2003
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-I read the entire thread as of today. I'm presenting a program on DX QSLing at our radio club in Sept. Thanks for some useful info. While it does disturb me that some DXers don't QSL (and take the money and run), I really haven't found that the case. My QSL return rate is abt 90% (including CUBA and Guyana). QSLs are fun; educational (my kids look up the countries and learn geography); and a way to build friendships with folks around the world. Your QSL can say a lot abt you as a person and can be personalized in that way. See mine on QRZ.
-What does disturb me is those who don't realize that QSLing is as old as the origins of ham radio and as integral a part as the QSO.
-If you send your card correctly,it will greatly increase your returns. See the Swan Island DX page for a great guide to QSLing/
-73 de K4RLC Bob
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by VE2TH on August 29, 2003
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I agree with you, I have the same problem for years.
It's easy to fill in a qsl card but to work dx or local especially rare grids oor somebody alone in his grid is another thing. Once worked, it s the only thing we need to get a valuable paper (WAS,WAC ETC...)it's a great excitement too... it's a complement of a nice and rare qso.
But I'm wondering what the guy at the other end is doing with our stamps or green stamps and enveloppes???
and Why does he do not answer to my e-mail??
My black list has one page. In this pages are guy to whom I sent 2 SASE and at least 2 e-mails.
Via bureau ti may be lost somewhere but the answers are at 45% for me here.
73's Mike VE2TH/qrp, fn46
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by N9DO on August 29, 2003
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Another take on the no QSL's is the DX station that has a stateside manager. Let me clearly state that there are many excellent stateside QSL managers. I have nothing but good things to say about them. But as in all things there is a bad apple or two in the barrel. I worked a needed DX station and sent a card to his stateside manager only to learn nearly a year later and after sending a second card that I was "not in the log". And the QSL manager informed me that he always returned any green stamps to those "not in the log". That's great, but he forgot to return mine. There was obviously more to that manager than meets the eye because the DX station no longer uses him for his manager.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by NN6EE on August 29, 2003
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Ian,
Unfortunately another "Big Problem" with mailing cards with money is that not all foreign country's "Postal Officials" are honest and would'nt hesistate to open any envelope if they had even the slightest inkling that it may contain $$$ !!!
I still have a few juicy DX cards owed to me but in most cases the wait has been 8mo. or longer!!! So I'll either have to re-mail'em or wait some more!!!
It's too bad that not all DX-QSL managers were'nt in the USA!!! :-)))
Jim/nn6ee
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by NN6EE on August 29, 2003
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Mike,
My DX-QSL response is rather gratifying @ approx. 90% so I really am tickled that it's been that good!!!
Jim/nn6ee
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by K9TTT on August 29, 2003
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Via NN6EE:
"Unfortunately another "Big Problem" with mailing cards with money is that not all foreign country's "Postal Officials" are honest and would'nt hesistate to open any envelope if they had even the slightest inkling that it may contain $$$ !!!"
Yes foreign postal stations are a problem in many countries.
But also consider these facts:
1. Many foreign post offices don't even know what an IRC is and/or how to process it.
2. For many foreign ops the post office may be many miles to travel just for YOUR QSL.
3. Money conversion is some countries is sometimes difficult. Say 9Y5 land....money either has to be exchanged at a government bank, or on the black market. Sometimes not easy.
4. In some countries, the mere possition of American money is ILLEGAL. Think about your fellow ham...don't send him to jail....he can't qsl from there!
I have found that by buying foreign postage and using a true sase (using a "nested" envelope) that my rate of return is +/- 90 %. Address the envelope to you, with no call letters. Put his return address on the envelope. Try to have all the info on one side of your card. Also check Eham, QRZ, Buckmaster for any special instructions (i.e. mail drop, manager, no direct(forget a 7X direct, won't happen). Also check to see if the DX has a buro; some don't, and in others card forwarding is very restricted.
That's my two cents worth!
Dale K9TTT
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by W7IAN on August 30, 2003
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K9TTT Hi Dale
I agree with what you say but again there are a few hams that get on and ASK for dollars direct. These handful of OPs that I have heard and sent several times to are the problem. These are the guys that don't complain about how far away the post office is but they work as many stateside ops as they can while on the air and ask for $$$ direct.
Take Care Ian W7IAN
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by KC8VWM on September 1, 2003
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And how about those electronic email QSL's? You know the QSL card that is scanned and then emailed to you.
They lack the legitimate "postage mark" with a time and city stamped on them from a particular town or city it was mailed from.
Shouldn't it be manditory for QSL cards to be "post marked" anymore to be legit?
Whats stopping anyone from "creating" a QSL and emailing it to you? There are some pretty good graphic creation software out there these days.
How can one "prove" otherwise? Perhaps the "QSL" was from a neighbor playing a joke using an HT with a dummy load five blocks away?
Don't get me wrong, I am just saying that a postmark from the government post office on a QSL card is an important feature about the "confirmation" aspect of the QSO contact.
Are we quickly forgetting about the basics?
You wouldn't write a check and forget to put the signature on it would you?
KC8VWM
KC8VWM
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by KC8VWM on September 1, 2003
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One user wrote:
"I have only run into a handful that seem to be in it for the money but some type of listing so as to give a warning to others would be nice."
Reply:
You mean there is "money" in QSL'ing?
Gee, now that's REALLY the definition of poor!
KC8VWM
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by OK1DX on September 1, 2003
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One reponse from other side of Atlantic...
I have mostly good experience getting QSL from rare stations / DXpeditions, I got back around 90%. The good operators are usually guarantee of received QSL. But I remember situation some years ago when I started with DXing - I assumed as "good valuable DX" nearly all stns, and the QSL responce rate was much worse. So I can recommend a simple principle (that I apply till now) - if the stn is not yet confirmed band-country for me and I have no QSO with him yet, I try to make a QSO. When you have 20 QSOs with that country, you have good chance that one QSL arrives via bureau.
I send immediately all QSLs for not-yet confirmed countries via bureau. I send a 2nd QSL when I don't receive confirmation after 2 years, not earlier. QSL bureau works well, but it sometimes takes time... I must admit that responce rate for 2nd QSLs is poor, but better than nothing... I send direct QSLs only for new DXCC countries or when I work some DXpedition on many bands - in average about 10 times a year (no, I haven't all DXCC confirmed, but I am more QRL now..).
To QSL bureau - it works fine in OK1, it is free for members. When I receive QSLs from bureau, only about 5 percent of cards are real value for me (band-countries etc.), but I reply to all of them. But I am not sure if my response/card is really needed on the other side. I am active in contests and I remember many stations that send QSL via bureau for each contest QSO (QSLs printed for all QSOs in log after contest). I think such QSL just generates additional load for QSL bureau. Of course, when I know the card is realy needed by the other side, it is my pleasure to send the card immediately!
Last words - air mail postage from OK1 is still bellow $1, so no need for $2 if you urgently need the OK1 card direct. But you will get the card via bureau - cheaper, more slowly, but sure...
73 Pavel OK1DX
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by WR8D on September 2, 2003
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Most of us have access to the internet...so if you want a qsl i cant understand why everyone doesnt use eqsl. Just about everyone has internet access..eqsl shots me an email that i've got a card from either a dx or stateside contact. I just log on and comfirm it if i want a copy of it i print it out if not it stays in my archive. Simple as that i can print them all out anytime i want. You can send every station you work an email. What could be better? It doesnt take months to get a card from a JA now for example. I've actually got a card within 30 minutes of working some stations on the other side of the world. Who needs arrl and their "buro" not i. Not i...never again. And if some of you arrl brown nose sucks want to read something else into this and pick at my comment...well you know where you can kiss.
WR8D
John Blackburn "code forever"
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by KD3JF on September 2, 2003
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There is another way to receive QSL cards back and up to 90% success rate. The secret is to buy foreign stamps. Through..............
William Plum
12Glenn Rd.
Flemington, NJ 08822-1020
PH 908-788-1020
FAX: 908-782-2612
You need to have his spiral notebook that gives you all the info exactly how to do it and he has the supplies you need.... airmail envelopes in which a qsl card fits nicely, etc. Also Including the prices of the stamps you need.
I had some IRCs left from the 70s or 80s that I found going through some stuff and took them to the PO and still got some money for them.
If you use this method you might knock the socks off the DX station. They like it when you send one of their stamps. For a QSL manager they claim using foreign stamps cuts their time by 50%
Paul Gates KD3JF
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by VK5GN on September 2, 2003
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There is much asumption and not a little misinformation. QSLing for an active station in a location with not many active HF hams is a "real pain". I have just finished handling QSL's from the bureau received in the last three months. The stack is over 3feet high. They are mostly for contacts in 2000/2001 so sending back via the bureau gives something like a three to four year turn around. In the same batch I received three cards from one station each gently reminding me that I had not yet QSL'd! There were many cards with incorrect times and bands. The bureau sent me a lot of VK5GM calls many were a missreading of my call VK5GN. If I did not have a computer data base to search for matches they would just go into the round file. I snt back over 15 cards "not in log".I will post back to the individual bureaus at a cost to me exceeding 150USD. Each six months I spend at least 200USD on QSL's buying them, posting them etc. This does not include my time!
This is fine while I can afford such an ongoing expense. How about when I am retired living on a fixed income? The log book of the world may help but in the mean time have patience and if YOU want the card you do as much of the work as possible. It is NOT my job in life to keep you happy! For a full economic analysis see my article in an old CQ Contest, I wrote that because I could not afford a new antenna I wanted but I still had to QSL!.
73
Martin
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by W7IAN on September 3, 2003
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Hi Martin VK5GN
What I was talking about is the handful of DX ops that openly ask to send $$$ for qsls as they work the pile ups and then don't respond. Luckily there are very few of these ops that do this.I understand that most ops use the bureau, etc but these guys get on the air, work them fast as they can and ask for dollars direct, then don't reply or answer email questions.
Take Care Ian W7IAN
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by T32AI on September 3, 2003
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Over my 33+ years as a ham I've operated mobile, maritime, and in remote QTHs around the world. I don't haul all my old logs around everywhere so when I get a QSL from a QSO 10+ years ago I file it for someday later. When I get cards w/incorrect info. I try and send 'em back w/note. But I also end up w/buro cards that gotta be sent back someday and those take time.
Then there are the cards from ops that are lids (i.e. tuner-uppers on pile-up freq., obstinate "work-me 1st" guys, and such) who in my mind do not deserve a card - - kinda like Ebay feedback.
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by VA2RC on September 4, 2003
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I to all, it's true that many people don't answer QSL card. Also card via the buro are not fast.
Me and a couple of guy in Quebec City start a new forwarding QSL card system, we send QSL card directly to incoming buro of the country we made contact and we split the postage fee. Ex: if i made 2 contact with south Africa and my friend 1 contact with south Africa, i will pay 66 % of the stamp and he will pay 33 % of the stamp.
We make a software to calculate the cost for DX card, USA card and canadian card. The software generate a report with the cost for each participant. We have a list up to date for incoming QSL buro of all country. That's our system to send our QSL card fast.
We send send the card four (4) times a years.
More faster than the club do !
ps: excuse my english, is not verry good.
Frank
VA2RC
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by AC7DX on October 17, 2003
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Here is a small list of dead-beats
Ik0hbn
Ea2ae
9a2dq
SP4KK
sp4tkk
dl5ov
on4un
ot5t
lz1mc
on4bx
cx5bw
hp1dgx
lu8ekc
oz5mj
ut0I
py2xb
lz1ms
w3lpl
s50c
sp3fym
lz1kaa
ti5kd
py8ajd
k7owj
w7db
w4so
ea5hq
hl0nhg
jr4abb
ke7lz
xe1rat
ea3bt
f5jjw
wa8vsj
es7re
lz1kdp
ua2aa
hi3jjl
ct3dl
dj2eh
n8nn
hc2sl
fmdxf
fm5cd
k8cc
jr0bqd
ua3mg
ke7lz
cx3dt
np2e
cx7bf
w1af
on5nt
wa4wip
ua4lcq
vk2rt
vk6gom
OH8SR
MI0BBF
4Z8GZ
DJ2EJ
KR5F
OE1GZA
WC7S
KM5YL
KH6TO
N5XM
KU4ZJ
W1OP
KF7ZL
K1MO
All with SASE or SAE and postage.
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by AC7DX on October 17, 2003
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Here is a small list of dead-beats
Ik0hbn
Ea2ae
9a2dq
SP4KK
sp4tkk
dl5ov
on4un
ot5t
lz1mc
on4bx
cx5bw
hp1dgx
lu8ekc
oz5mj
ut0I
py2xb
lz1ms
w3lpl
s50c
sp3fym
lz1kaa
ti5kd
py8ajd
k7owj
w7db
w4so
ea5hq
hl0nhg
jr4abb
ke7lz
xe1rat
ea3bt
f5jjw
wa8vsj
es7re
lz1kdp
ua2aa
hi3jjl
ct3dl
dj2eh
n8nn
hc2sl
fmdxf
fm5cd
k8cc
jr0bqd
ua3mg
ke7lz
cx3dt
np2e
cx7bf
w1af
on5nt
wa4wip
ua4lcq
vk2rt
vk6gom
OH8SR
MI0BBF
4Z8GZ
DJ2EJ
KR5F
OE1GZA
WC7S
KM5YL
KH6TO
N5XM
KU4ZJ
W1OP
KF7ZL
K1MO
All with SASE or SAE and postage.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by KA4ETR on May 20, 2004
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You know, you just made remember back to when I was a novice in 1963 and you're right, some cards did take years or at least a year to get to me. Example: USSR and some of the eastern block countries mostly. Also some of the buro's are very, very slow! 73
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DXers That Don't QSL...
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by K4KAL on August 9, 2004
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I agree... I am getting tired of financing DX Stations hobby, and they don't even send you a QSL Card. I have also noticed Amateurs posting on the DX Cluster lately, "This Stations does not QSL". My only hope is the DX stations will start using services like LotW, etc. So we can get some kind of confirmation for awards. I bet I could go through my 30,000 contacts in my log and find quite a few who I have sent cards many times, and never get a return. Maybe we do need like a "Black List" posted somewhere.
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W7IAN on October 3, 2004
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hope you arent one of the ones that asks for dollars in advance
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W7IAN on October 3, 2004
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hope you arent one of the ones that asks for dollars in advance
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RE: DXers That Don't QSL...
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by W7IAN on October 3, 2004
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I have to say that if DX is asking for dollars to get a qsl and you send a few dollars with an SAE then 6 months should be enough time for them to fill in the paticulars on a qsl and drop it in the post. My problem is with the ops that ask for DIRECT only and green stamps then never reply.
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