Future of Ham RADIO
Andrew Genau (KC2GOW)
on
September 21, 2003
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With new methods of communication, Amateur Radio may slowly lose the RADIO part of it. For example, Echolink is putting into new amateurs minds that it (Echolink) is all they need. I have seen many hams that do not own radios -- their "shack" consists of a desk and computer. I operate Echolink on occasions, but do not only operate this way. What ever happened to the technical aspect of the hobby (building antennas, radios etc.)?
On Internet links, there is too little RADIO involved. If you get your license and only run Echolink, IRLP, iLink you're not actually a RADIO OPERATOR.
There is no such thing as "DX" on the Internet. Someone could go out and work as many countries as he/she wants.
Hopefully the eHam users will come in and give their two cents. I'd appreciate it.
73
Andrew KC2GOW
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KD7EFQ on September 21, 2003
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If it doesn't involve someone using an actual radio at least at one end, then it's NOT HAM RADIO. It's internet chatting. Computer to Computer is just Chat Room Chatting. 73
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by LNXAUTHOR on September 21, 2003
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- trolling for echolink haters, eh?
- as far as echolink: i won't use echolink in its current incarnation, as it requires registration and only offers proprietary, binary-only software for platforms from the Evil Empire (Satan and his minions in Redmond)...
- however, there are some alternatives for those of us who prefer to be free and won't use software without seeing the source code (tks to a Usenet poster for the links):
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=56357&release_id=132906
http://dogparksoftware.com/EchoMac.html (source for Mac OS X available!)
- let's face it - all base rigs are going to be computers in the future - witness the increasing number of units offering firmware 'upgrades' either via the Internet, or even better for manufacturers, by a trip back to the birthplace (factory)....
- what i'm waiting for is an 'open hardware' transceiver that *i* can control (and i don't mean just by hooking it up to a computer, although this feature is part of the evolution)
- i'd prefer to control the display, menu system, button functions myself, and be able to rearrange the control panel to suit my needs (the ft-857 and other rigs offer a tentative step towards this by being able to toggle the viewing of menuitems on or off, which is convenient)
- but personally, i prefer communicating via my homebuilt antenna and a transceiver - fighting band conditions (Mother Nature) is for me, an essential element of ham radio - not whether routing is set up properly between my Internet provider and various gateways (which you can see by running traceroute to a remote IP)...
- just my $0.02
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by W1GFD on September 21, 2003
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Andrew I Must say that I agree with you, the radio part of ham radio is slowly dwindling but I do not think that it is because the individuals do not think they need a radio but rather in some (and unfortunately this is becoming more and more prevalent) cases it is that they can’t put up an antenna or tower either due to the fact that they live in an apartment or they live in a community where the home owners association will not let then put up antennas, also some cities and towns are beginning to make it increasingly difficult to erect a tower even though according to PBR-1 they have to there is now law stating they have to give you the building permit to do it. To address the technical aspect of the hobby, have you seen a recent copy of a ARRL test of cores these new hams are not into the technical aspect because it is barley their anymore and with fewer and fewer ham’s willing becoming elmers in our current overly PC society (by this I mean that we do not want to try to teach anyone for fear we may insult them or make them feel inferior) many of the new hams are not aware as to just how exciting the hobby can really be, I for one enjoy building antennas and various electronic projects however I was very fortunate and have had a couple of great elmers, so I guess what I am trying to say is that if we as hams get more involved with the newer hams just maybe we can bring some of the technical aspects to newer hams and show them what the hobby is all about, after all experimenting is what this hobby was built on.
73
Sean W1GFD
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by W6KAN on September 21, 2003
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I have been a "ham" since I was 13...now 63! One of the greatest things about the hobby is the continually changing environment. When I started there were only vacum tubes. My first recollection of solid state devices were transistors that would only work on audio frequencies. Look what has happened in such a short time.
I do not think "radio" will die. But we will see changes continue at a faster rate, especially with more analog devices becoming digital. The reality is that the internet can fail if the infrastructure is destroyed. Not so with "radio"! I believe it will always be around but more advanced.
Thanks....Tom K0GKD
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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Echolink is not Amateur Radio. Echolink FAILED during the recent disaster on the East Coast, (I was there, unless you were you don’t know) but REAL RADIO worked. Phone lines went down, so did Echolink. Too many variables for Echolink to work properly during emergencies. For those (mostly CBPlussers) who THINK Echolink is RADIO they are living in a fantasy world.
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by K9III on September 21, 2003
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I like the Internet as much as the next guy, but, bottom line is Internet Chat is not Ham Radio. End of discussion.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB2SDR on September 21, 2003
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No offense to you, Andrew, it appears that so many people are unhappy with the new changes that are happening or will happen in the future regardless of what we say. To be honest with you all this is getting old very quickly. How many times can a person see so much negativity and finally be put off about it. I enjoy reading posts on Eham, QRZ, and the readers opinions in the ARRL magazine, but enough is enough. I believe that even though we don't like what things are to come, they will come. I am like the majority of you who believe that we need to keep things at a harder level if we are going to give up somethings. Look at cuba:
One is tested on the ability to send as well as to receive Morse code. The tests require answers; not multiple choice. For the 3rd Class license, after passing the code (5 wpm) and written test, the applicant must demonstrate that he can tune a radio. Only then does he receive a construction permit to build a radio. On completion and inspection of the radio, the applicant receives his 3rd class license; with a CL prefix. An amateur must operate under a 3rd class license for a year before she or he is eligible to upgrade. Upgrading requires another test and an increased level of CW (10 wpm) competence. The 2nd class operator receives a CM prefix. The highest-level license (1st Class) requires a 15 wpm code test and another written exam on rules and theory. The 1st Class license is identified with a CO prefix.
(Copied from http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/articles/features/cuba.html )
I believe that the US ham should follow a similar role, this is a technical hobby, but that is my opinion. Sure, there should be rules that allow people with disabilities to bypass certain things and give them privililages to operate HF. So many people want a free ride in this country. They want want want, but don't take the to sit down and learn. I for one have fallen in this group!
Sure, this probably doesn't make sense and I will get hit on my grammar, but I have a right to my opinion just like you. Instead of crying and whinning, let support the hobby and write some good stuff. How about those salty operators that know alot about Amatuer radio and Electronics write about stuff that will teach the newcomer and refresh the old. I am not saying post a book on something, but if it is a technical thing you wish to teach, break it down into english and make it easier to comprehend for those that are less technical. We have so much to learn from people that have been in the hobby a long time, lets stop our complaining and be creative.
Please direct all complaints to me, Jason Matonis at kb2sdrjay@yahoo.com .
73
Jason
KB2SDR
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by K4CQY on September 21, 2003
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Three points, I don't know why I bother though....
* Echolink was never intended to be a emergency communications medium. Therefore, it did not and could not FAIL during the recent 'disaster'. Get it?
* REAL RADIO??? Puhleeeze give it a break. How do you think that we went from wires, to wireless, to long distance telephone? RADIO LINKS. How is it done now? RADIO LINKS (Microwave terrestrial and sattelite) IT's ALL RADIO.
* CB is RADIO also, people are people.
Grow up, get a clue and stop denigrating things you don't understand.
OK, now go study for your Amateur Radio Operators License, OK HUGO? 73 OM.
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by KB3JKB on September 21, 2003
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< REAL RADIO??? Puhleeeze give it a break. How do you think that we went from wires, to wireless, to long distance telephone? RADIO LINKS. How is it done now? RADIO LINKS (Microwave terrestrial and sattelite) IT's ALL RADIO.
>
Thanks for the education but I beg to differ with you OM. A great deal of the Inet and telephone system is accomplished with LIGHT not RADIO. Burried fiber optic cable is the backbone of the Inet.
On the topic of the Future, the level of abstraction is becoming greater and greater in the technology of today and the future. How many hobbyist's are going to tackle constructing a cpu. I'd venture to say none. How many of us could even program in a low level language such as Assembler. We don't want to deal with all the "stuff". Anyone want to attempt a tune-up on their new car? Can anyone even imagine what 30 years into the future will bring. I doubt that you'll be hearing many CQ's. Technology has a momentum and direction of it's own. There is very little any of us can do to control it.
73's Charlie
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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These new “Whipper Snapper's” just don't get it do they KB3JBK. K4CQY is going to educate "us" on how RADIO LINKS are done via SATELLITE, and he can't even spell satellite correct! He needs Echolink. Plug and Play Ham Radio! Leave the real radio to us Jon.
73
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by OBSERVER11 on September 21, 2003
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echolink is a nice TOY, it is on the same level as connecting two repeaters together via the autopatch. It is NOT ham radio, it is VoIP, the same thing that allows IDT to sell cheap long distance phone service.
If it cannot be relied upon in a disaster, it is of ZERO USE for disaster services (ARC, Salvation Army etc) and should not be part of the disaster plan.
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by K4CQY on September 21, 2003
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Hugo, would you do all of us a favor and try to stay linear and on topic?
BTW, I've got Echolink installed but I rarely use it. I mostly find it useful to maintain contact while mobile over long distances away from my home, i.e. to link repeaters.
I've been licensed since 1991, I've used amateur radio since 1985 when I had a FT-102 on which I did some extensive bootlegging. (My decision, my reasons) I've been decoding packet since then as well. Morse Code has become less and less of a threat to Amateur Radio over time and it's reign of terror is almost at an end.
I've been using the internet a little longer and have founded and sold an ISP long ago.
I could go on and on about my credentials and experience, but some things are painfully clear.
You're a buffoon without a callsign and you haven't done anything new or challenging in your entire life, have you?
Go on, get your Amateur Radio License. Till then I bid you farewell.
Oh, Spelling flames are so..... clever.
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by K4CQY on September 21, 2003
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FWIW
I agree with the basic notion here, but unfortunately the poster choose to use extremes instead of valid observations.
The words "TOY" and "ZERO USE" are examples of this. The poster choose to use capital letters on porpoise because they are intended to be overwrought and provocative.
Essentially the point could be made that:
"Echolink is nice. It cannot be relied upon in a disaster so therefore it has limited utility in such circumstances."
Do you like Ice Cream? I don't think you should stop because it's unlikely to be very useful in a hurricane!
You might even get lucky. There was FREE ICE CREAM in town a couple days ago. A Hurricane came right over the top of us y'see, and with no electricity well...
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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K4CQY posted “I've been licensed since 1991, I've used amateur radio since 1985 when I had a FT-102 on which I did some extensive bootlegging. (My decision, my reasons)”
Way to go there, Jon. We’re real IMPRESSED with your “credentials and experience” now.
K4CQY posted “Hugo, would you do all of us a favor and try to stay linear and on topic?”
Then Jon proceeds to loose his thought process, break his new rule, and post, “Morse Code has become less and less of a threat to Amateur Radio over time and it's reign of terror is almost at an end.”
Oh no, here we go again………… Why did I have the feeling that this was where this was headed…..
BTW Jon, the reason that I don’t post my call should be quite clear. You see, I don’t need folks like you spamming my E-Mail. You (ex ISP owner) above all should have known this. Take this to the bank. I was licensed when you were just a twinkle, in your father’s eyes!
And the name calling, well you're a real class act there Jon.
HUGO
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by K4CQY on September 21, 2003
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Hugo, dr friend.
My prior bootlegging and my statement about code are extremely linear. Your inability to comprehend notwithstanding.
As for "spamming" Let's get real. No spambots are harvesting addresses by matching amateur callsigns with databases. I'll wager you enjoy most of the spam anyways, at least the ones with pictures.
You simply don't post your callsign because you wish to remain anonymous. Your choice. As far as anyone can see you're simply not a licensed Amateur. Just a troller.
You being born prior to me isn't an achievement, even though it may have been your greatest.
Bottom line, have fun with radio, wherever you find it. Echolink is a marvelous thing, HF is a marvelous thing, Morse Code is a marvelous thing. It's all radio, get your license and try it out!
Cheers,
K4CQY <---- Licensed Amateur
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by KB0LDI on September 21, 2003
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Hey K4CQY, you school Hugo on about staying on topic yet you do not. You have a radio criminal past. You need to surender your licenses. You are part of the problem in ham radio, not part of the solution. Bye.
Keith
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by AG4RQ on September 21, 2003
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Reign of Terror? Viva La Revolution! Robspierre would have been proud. Typical statement from the NCI crowd.
Just so that you don't think that my post is off topic, Echolink is nothing more than Internet chat for licensed amateurs. Cell phones have more to do with radio than Echolink does. At least a cell phone is a radio.
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by KB9IV on September 21, 2003
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I frankly believe that Ham Radio as it is now will always be a mix or RF & Computer. I find it fascinating the changes in leap & bounds in 10 years time, Internet upgradable HF rigs, DSP improvements in higher and higher IF frequencies........remember that 10 years ago a 386 25 Mhz processor was cutting edge and now we are at 2.8 Ghz.
Instead of resisting welcome and exciting change, I fully embrace it because Ham radio is a hobby not a job.
Best 73,
Bill KB9IV
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by KB0LDI on September 21, 2003
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Ham Radio is classfied as a service not a hobby.
And the other person is right, cell phones do have more in common with ham radio than echolink does.
Keith
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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It’s nice to know that others can also see the “smoke and mirrors” that Jon is putting forth.
HUGO <------ LICENSED AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR
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by AG4RQ on September 21, 2003
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KB2SDR posted a link to an article about ham radio in Cuba. I read it. It was very interesting. We laugh at Cuba for being a backward third world communist-oppressed country. The joke is on us. They are the resourseful ones who can build and repair their own stuff, unlike our disposable society where we throw out something that quits working and buy new. They are still using our 1950's automobiles. Such resoursefulness is not unique to Cuba. It prevails throughout Latin America, where economic resources are not plentiful. We are a rich lazy society. We are no longer the resourseful society that we once were. We don't make anything anymore. We depend on substandard Chinese consumer products.
I read another article on the same site "The Future of Amateur Radio" which can be accessed at http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/articles/features/olderfeatures/futureofAR.html
this article is also very interesting reading.
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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Want a new rig, call Dell or Gateway. Is this the direction Ham Radio is going? Just think, your new Ham Radio could get a VIRUS! Ha
HUGO <------ Still using RF for Ham Radio
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by WB9UDJ on September 21, 2003
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Other than the problems we are having with another repeater 150 miles away that has ECHO LINK on it and the associated problems of stations toning the ECHO LINK and causing our local repeaters tone controller to do things we do not want it doing. Yes we are tone encoded on our receiver.
The only other problem is a minor silly one with those that talk about making a contact to some distant land thinking they did something different that making a telephone call to that place. The chances are that the phone call would entail using a radio, their cell phone.
If the Echo link required a radio on each end it would be a more valid form of Amateur Radio.
My vote is that it is a pain in the neck. Just my humble opinion.
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by KD5RGJ on September 21, 2003
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I THINK ECHOLINK IS A "PART" OF HAM RADIO. HOW EVER COULD I HAVE TALKED TO SOME VERY DEDICATED HAMS IN THE UK. I DON'T LIKE THE ATTITUDE THAT ALL 11 METER OPERATORS ARE MINDLESS DRONES WITH THE 10-4 GOOD BUDDY
OTHER OTHER SENTENCE. I AM FROM THE RANKS OF CB LAND.
I VISITED A LOT OF HAMS THAT TOLD ME OF THE GLORIOUS ATTRIBUTES OF BEING AN AMATEUR OPERATOR...JUST STUDY AND PAST THE TEST. BASKING IN THE GLOW OF THE LARGE TUBE RADIOS SET ME ON FIRE TO BECOME ONE OF THEM...BUT NO ONE TOLD ME HOW AND WHAT TO STUDY..I BELONGED TO THE ARRL AND READ QST FROM COVER TO COVER INCLUDING EVERY AD. I QUIT THE 11 METER SCENE BECAUSE IT SEEMED EVERYONE AND HIS BROTHER WANTED TO HOLLER 10 4 GOOD BUDDY BUT BEFORE I DID I WAS A DEDICATED SSB MAN ONLY...THERE WAS SOME DIGNITY THERE. AFTER 35 YEARS, I FINALLY FOUND A HAM THAT GAVE ME THE ABCs AND 123s OTHE WHAT AND HOW TO STUDY AND I FINALLY AT AGE 57 RECEIVED MY GENERAL CLASS LICENSE...THANKS BRITT BOWN KC5RFL...HAM RADIO HAS A MULTITUDE OF THE SPECIALITIES...CODE-CONTESTING-DXing-THE NEW DIGITAL MODES...I EXISTED AS A HAM FOR 7 MONTHS WITH A 1.5 WATT
HT BEFORE I BOUGHT MY FIRST HF RIG...IT HAS A LOT OF BELLS AND WHISTLES BUT I DON'T USE ANY OF THEM...I JUST GOT A FANTASTIC DEAL ON THE RADIO...THERE ARE 4 HAMS IN MY TOWN OF 400 POPUTATION AND WE ALL WORK HARD TO RECRUIT OTHERS...I DON'T CRITIZISE ANYBODY ELSE FOR THE PREFERENCE THEY ADHERE TO IN HAM RADIO..CODE NO CODE ETC...WHY CAN'T WE JUST DO WHAT WE WANT AND ARE COMFORTABLE WITH AND LET OTHERS DO THE SAME.
FIND YOUR "HOTBUTT" AND DO IT...LET OTHERS DO THE SAME
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by AA6NE on September 21, 2003
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The post above mine should shed light on why people should not do drugs. Can anyone make heads or tails on what this person is trying to say????
Mark
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by W5HTW on September 21, 2003
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Actually I like Echolink and the VOIP fellas. Keeps them out of the way of ham radio.
Ed
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by N9AVY on September 21, 2003
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Seems like another subject has turned into bashing again. Why can't we stay on topic ???
I regard Echolink and other internet links as a "NOVELTY" and not ham radio; much like going to a hamfest and finding everything except ham radio equipment. If people choose to operate Echolink (et al) then that is there choice.
Ham radio is still evolving and we will continue to see change. Some changes will be good and some will be bad. This hobby faces some major issues which dim the importance of things like Echolink and even Morse code. We all need to look ahead with the interest of the majority in mind rather than our own petty little areas of interest. We had some gains at WRC-03, but some of it could be lost at the next WRC. We face the very real threat of BPL and business interests who only see dollar signs. We, as ham radio operators, NEED to present a UNIFIED voice to our governing bodies. All this bickering between ourselves is counterproductive.
Jerry, N9AVY
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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Ed,
I never thought of it in that way, but you're 100% CORRECT! I NOW LOVE ECHOLINK, TOO! Maybe the NO CODERS will flock to ECHOLINK in droves!!! And leave the REAL HAM RADIO to us.....
HUGO <------ NOW LOVES ECHOLINK
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by N9AVY on September 21, 2003
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HUGO:
You're right ! Never thought of it that way.
Jerry, N9AVY
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by N9AVY on September 21, 2003
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Maybe we can sell " I Love Echolink" bumper stickers at the next hamfest !
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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I've got a friend who owns a printing shop. I'll be contacting him shortly about printing the bumper stickers!
HUGO <------- ECHOLINK, THE GREATEST MODE EVER
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by M1ACQ on September 21, 2003
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Waaaay upthread a bit KB3JKB said that most of the internet is carried over fibre optic cables rather than satellite links
Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't Light and Radio both EM radiation ???
(Dons flame retardant suit and battens down the hatches)
Frank
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by KD7KGX on September 21, 2003
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In my opinion, ANY communication between amateurs that relies on something besides RF to link the two stations isn't truly ham radio. The challenge and appeal of ham radio is making that connection with a hunk of wire and a little RF and the knowledge and understanding of propagation, not in understanding which DMTF tones to send. But... some of these alternatives such as EchoLink or IRLP (better, IMO) are clever technical hacks.
Any solution that DOESN'T require a radio on both ends of the QSO is a problem waiting to happen. What is going to keep non-amateurs sitting at their computers from engaging in a QSO, across the airwaves (a violation of the rules) to another ham who is connecting to a node via RF? This is what I like about IRLP.
I view these modes the same way I view FRS radios... interesting, occasionally useful, and a good way to get non-amateurs (especially youth) interested in ham radio. Hopefully their use will inspire the beginner to pursue ham radio further, to upgrade from Tech to General, and to get on HF.
The future of ham radio? Maybe PART of the future... but I also see a future when we can have an RF-only national network of VHF/UHF repeaters, so we can work nationwide with just an HT. Futures require a present, however, where work is done to get to that future. If you want a certain future then work in the present to make that future.
Re 'Satan and his evil minions', whether you love Microsoft or hate them, you HAVE to admit that their efforts have been a large part of the PC revolution where things once unfathomable (like using the Web) were facilitated by cheap and good GUI-based operating systems.
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by N2BR on September 21, 2003
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HUGO your wrong echolink did work and got information passed too the NHC and to IRLP systems.I know i monitor it from start to end.
HUGO get a amateur radio license and download echolink dont knock it till you have tryed it
Bob/N2BR
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by THEWISEONE on September 21, 2003
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Echolink is just another useless toy that was developed for the nocodes to have something to play with while in great hopes of the FCC dropping the CW req overnight. Echolink is about as useless as breast's on a boar hog. Yes the young whippersnappers of today are out to change the world, just take a minute to listen to them and receive a doctorate in know it all and street smart subjects. Pleeeze.
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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Hey N2BR, as long as Echolink keeps hams like you off HF, I say, ECHOLINK is great.
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by KL7IPV on September 21, 2003
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M1ACQ, You ARE right; anything over fiber optics IS EM Radiation, but it is NOT over the air as is radio. The older telecom facilities were carrier over open steel and copper wires and then over cable and now over fiber. I did them all when I worked for the telecoms for 43 years, They AINT radio. I also love computers and have been using and done programming on them since 1969. I now have my 13th new computer. I love them and I love my radios. But Echolink is NOT radio. I like it because it serves a very good function: it allows hams to contimue to talk to other hams even if they have lost the means to use their radios. Why not allow a CC&R'd ham or an older ham that may be hospitalized talk to old buddies over Echolink? I have talked to some hams who were overjoyed that they could continue to talk even if it wasn't over the air. It made no difference to them that is was over the internet. They could STILL talk to old buddies. I believe every mode has it's purpose and serves us well when we acknowledge that and use it for the purpose it was meant to be used. Echolink was NOT meant to BE radio just augment radio. I think it serves that function well. I will continue to use all the means available to me to talk to those I wish to talk to. It makes no difference to me how that is legally done.
73
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KG0R on September 21, 2003
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HUGO <------- WOW, IS THIS GUY ANNOYING OR WHAT!!?!
Too bad that ability hasn't become productive yet....
Echolink has it's place, HF has it's place. We're in the 21st Century here, folks. HF isn't outmoded. Echolink probably isn't the answer. However, both are usefull.
73, from a "Whipper Snapper" who passed a 20 WPM code test and enjoys HF as well as Echolink.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by N8FVJ on September 21, 2003
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A real radio station is electronics that stands alone for communications. A telephone is not ham radio either in the sense that a microwave tower is used in the 'link'.
That does not mean echolink is a poor service either.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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Will Echolink run on my TI-994A?
HUGO ----->LOVES ECHOLINK
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by HUGO on September 21, 2003
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"HUGO your wrong echolink did work and got information passed too the NHC and to IRLP systems.I know i monitor it from start to end. HUGO get a amateur radio license and download echolink dont knock it till you have tryed it
Bob/N2BR"
Dear Bob,
When you complete the 3rd grade, return here and try posting again.
HUGO ----->ECHOLINK = GREATEST MODE EVER
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by W9JCM on September 21, 2003
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Andrew maybe you should think about upgrading from Tech to general and see what "real" radio is about. Computer are a hams friend they work great for rig control, sats, contests, logging, dx prop. Many many uses not just echolinking. This "article" if you can call it that has been drumed up so many times here. It just gives a reason for people to bitch and whine in the forum. Cant we put better things up like informative helpful info, not things that have been hashed and rehashed IE: Code Reqs, CBers, Echoling hate or no hate, Come on eham.... :-)
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by N6AJR on September 21, 2003
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Folks, echo link is another nother way to play with your radio. I kind of compare it to using a repeater. Handy and fun, but nothing special.
as a ham you can do psk31 rtty, fsk, amtor, hellschriber and packet, with your radio and a computer with a sound card.
Used to be you needed a whole pile of stuff to run packet, and rtty took a whole room full of teletyp equipment, and a punch tape reader, now just a rig and computer.
This is one more mode we can play with, and I guess it qualifies as ham radio, but I won't use any qsl cards from echo ling style qsl fro dxcc...
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by W5HTW on September 21, 2003
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I can't resist... I'm trying, I'm trying... Nope, I can't resist, I can't ...
The more CBers we get on chat rooms the better the ham bands will sound.
Arrrgggh. I couldn't resist, I tried, I even tied myself in the barn, but I broke the rope and ripped free.
Ed
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KE6I on September 21, 2003
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With Echolink I don't see any attraction for people already using other voice chat systems. In competition to other internet technology, it's just not that hot -- it's missing video, you can't transfer files, can you? Does Echolink even have full-duplex yet? Netmeeting you can set full duplex and skip all the push to talk hassle. Why mess around with callsigns and all the ham radio restrictions, when you can just use an internet chat room? That's what I don't get.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KR4XH on September 21, 2003
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I run ICQ, Yahoo and AOL Messenger services... No, I don't want a merit badge.
I'm not going to show any distain for Echolink. It has its place. Another means to communicate.
At the risk of a flame-fest, it is not Amateur Radio as I was taught. Amateur Radio involves at least two stations and propagation via whichever mode happens to suit your fancy. But "radios" are required. Not "routers".
VOIP is just another word for "chat"...
just call me old-fashioned...
don KR4XH
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KG6AMW on September 21, 2003
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Good talking point Andrew. When I go into my shack, its radio time only for me. What is really odd is to listen to a bunch of hams talking on a particular frequency while they operate their computers at the same time. The quality of the conversation takes on a Prozac quality.
KG6AMW
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by W3DCG on September 21, 2003
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I thought echo link was where you take some flexible pipe of sort, connect a funnel of sort on either end, (the best ones are fabricated of metal), and speak voluminously into one funnel with the other participant at the other. Often times the mode is done with no gear except for the diaphram, lungs, larynx, oral cavity, and tongue contained within one's person.
I rather enjoy echo link. Works best in caverns, cellars, tunnels, rocky canyons, places like that.
I think it's cool.
But regarding IRLP, I think IRLP is beyond excellent. It is radio, enabling world-wide crystal clear communications from HT to HT. Truly an innovation- an immense enhancement to Amateur radio, and all portable, mobile, especially pedestrian mobile radio operations. In my book, IRLP is awesome.
Ham Radio - Radio = Ham.
Nothing more than pig meat.
hi.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by G3SEA on September 21, 2003
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The future of Ham RADIO is fine ( for many of the reasons given above ).
For emergencies it is of course priceless.
However it's a free country so if you don't like EchoLink then don't use it :)
EchoLink is useful for the escalating urban restrictions reasons given by W1GFD.If it serves to keep new hams ( who may only have a 2m HT ) interested ( especially during the current solar decline ) then all power to it.
Of course it's NOT pure radio :) NOBODY ever said it was :)But it does allow like minded individuals in far flung countries to have meaningful discussions on a reliable circuit.It's a WONDERFUL mode for Expats too.
UNLIKE cell phones there is NO LONG DISTANCE or AIR TIME charges :)
Remember the Internet was developed from Arpanet as a totally redundant system.However in reality that does not mean much when the phone poles are down or the ducts are flooded and the power is out as in the recent Hurricane Isabel.
Hey it's a fun mode that I enjoy.
What ham has not dreamt of talking to the world on an HT from the beach ! :)
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by G3SEA on September 21, 2003
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EchoLink can be and is used HT to HT :) It is FAR more
popular than IRLP :)
The understandable gripe is that some only use it for PC to PC :(
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by N0YVW on September 21, 2003
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Echolink is just a *mode*. We've been able to remotely operate rigs for awhile now, this just takes it a step farther back.
I do, however (and have for sometime) shared KD7KGX's vision of a national linked repeater system, entirely over RF. This is the worst thing that I see in Echolink -- it makes it so simple to link repeaters via the Internet that nobody seems to want to do it over RF anymore. And this scares me somewhat, 'cause the net can go down, but we can keep our repeaters up, running, and linked with emergency power.
On the flip side, I do enjoy Echolink...it's nice to be able to tune into *local* traffic elsewhere when you've got a few minutes and don't want to call CQ. I'm not a contester, I don't chase DX, what brought me into ham radio is ragchewing, and Echolink seems to be the last remaining pure bastion of that at the moment.
It is *not* all that I operate, however...
N0YVW/AE
Celebrating 10 years (to the day) as a ham...
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by K0RFD on September 21, 2003
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Although it's cool, Echolink is not radio. It's an audio chatroom for anybody who has, or can steal, a valid callsign.
Regarding the subject line of the original post, the "Future of Ham Radio" has nothing to do with Echolink, chatrooms, or Voice-Over-IP technology.
It has everything to do with being on the radio. As often as possible.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC8YHU on September 21, 2003
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I can't get echolink to work to save my own rear end. Everytime i try to connect to a repeater, it times out.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC8YHU on September 21, 2003
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Id also like to add that connecting 2 repeaters together using it is a good idea. But using it as a primary means for talking to other hams has got to be the most hastle full process. I had it for 3 minutes and tossed it due to it's uselessness.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by K8AG on September 21, 2003
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What we need to keep in mind is that as hams, it is not making the contact as much as how the contact is made. With the recent power failures on the east coast we were forced to realize that the "higher" our technology in use, the more fragile is our technology. Power went out and I didn't have the internet (along with most of the north eastern part of the country). I did, however, have ham radio and as a result I was in touch with the outside world. I couldn't use my cel phone to call anybody, but I could make contacts on my QRP HF and VHF/UHF ht.
Some of us are still using CW because it is fun and effective. I am amazed that 5 watts (less than the power in a Christmas tree light) can span the country. That mega-billion dollar companies can set up a house of cards to let me do the same is not nearly as impressive.
73,
John Pawlicki, K8AG
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB3JKB on September 21, 2003
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I'm wondering what is the critical mass for amateur radio operators. I don't know exactly how echolink works, but I'm certain that I could design a system that would simulate the amateur radio world and elminate the need for HF radio waves by using the Internet as it exists today. Why would anyone want to go to all the trouble of erecting antennas and spending considerable amounts of money for the radio equipment when the same thing can be done with just a computer and a hand held and it's all 599 (forgive me for over simplifying here). There is a reason I'm sure. I'm thinking that we at the very least need to carry our history into the future. The romance, the allure of Ham Radio yes even CW (NCI take note). It's either that or Ham Radio becomes archaic and we drop below that critical mass required to keep our hobby viable.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KZ9G on September 22, 2003
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Even with Echolink, there's a two-way radio involved somewhere, I believe. Otherwise, what's the point?
Echolink is just a means of transporting tx/rx audio and keying information over the public switched telephone network (PSTN) for the purpose of accessing an amateur radio system at the far end. It'll never replace more traditional methods of long-haul communications in times of a large scale need or disaster. Why, do you ask? It’s because the PSTN will fail, as well as those services transported on it (like telephone service, the cellular network, and quite possibly the internet access in the affected areas). Obviously, certain PSTN networks and the internet will reroute around lost network elements, but lost communications will still occur in disasters for many reasons. Echolink is a neat technology, but it won't replace good old RF in any form or fashion. It will, however, allow hams to access radio systems remotely. That is cool.
73.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC0PED on September 22, 2003
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I'm a new ham, and I'm really dumbfounded at some of the comments people make on this site.
There seems to be some longing for the old days where people blew their own glass tubes and their radios were powered by steam.
EVERY new type of communication has been hooked up to amateur radio. Hams figured out how to hook a radio up to a telephone. Hams figured out how to broadcast TV on amateur bands. Hams figured out how to send teletype data over RF. Fax images can be sent over radio. Does it come to a surprise to anyone that chat and VoIP has been hooked up to amateur radio????
While emergency services are an important part of amateur radio, its not the only reason for its existence. In fact, Section 97.1 says:
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through
rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and
technical phases of the art.
All this monkeying around with computers, packet data, VoIP is all part of the "advancement of radio art". If we all used vacuum tubes and chatted using CW, there would be no "advancement of the art", which is part of our raison d'être.
How can those who so adamantly embrace section a of Section 97.1 so thoroughly disparage sections b and c? Part of the reason why the Amateur Radio SERVICE exists is to advance the radio art. This is done via integration of radio with new technology and development of new uses for radio. Advancement of knowledge often times results in failed experiments, but that's all part of the "advancement of the art".
That's why I got my license. I have no desire to use CW. I have no desire to get DX awards. I don't know if I'll ever get involved with any organized emergency services. I have no beef with those that wish to do those things and I have respect for those who came before me. After all, we stand on the shoulders of giants.
I got my license because I like playing with the technology. That is as perfectly a legitimate reason to be involved in amateur radio as those who wish to "provide emergency commuincations" or "enhance international goodwill".
Echolink isn't radio, but its part of the grand tradition that started when we progressed beyond CW. There are methods of communication which haven't been discovered yet, but I can guarantee you that it will be integrated, somehow, into amateur radio.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KA0CKK on September 22, 2003
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This whole running dialogue is almost beneath comment.
Ham Radio minus Radio = Spam Radio.
And this from someone who lived in SpamTowne (Austin, MN) for 10 years.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by W2IRT on September 22, 2003
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KC0PED: Well Said!
I personally don't really like Echolink or its clones, since one doesn't need to come in from a radio to communicate by this method. For this type of communication I'll take AIM/ICQ/Yahoo on Trillian.
I'm a huge believer in IRLP, however, since it does require radio communication at each end of the link. Ain't no way to use IRLP without a radio. Not just that, but the rebel in me loves the fact it runs on an ultra-stable Linux platform and goes PHHHHHPTT to Microsoft.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KA7JRU on September 22, 2003
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Echolink is great for those who..
1. Have yet to learn the code.
2. NCI Members.
3. Lack technical skills to setup a station.
4. Bootlegging CB'ers.
As long as Echolink keeps the above mentioned off of the HF Bands, I'm all for Echolink.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB0QX on September 22, 2003
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The reason that I do not like Echolink is the security of the system. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE can download and install the program on their PC. Then with a stolen call, and a hacked Internet account (such as an AOL dial-up), cause havoc on the air, and not be traceable. If the same person does this with RF, they are traceable. I for one hope that the FCC steps in and eliminates this mode soon. Echolink is not, and will not be an asset to Amateur Radio.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by DOODAH on September 22, 2003
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For me, Echolink is a means of using a remote repeater by 'remote control'. I'm still talking to another amateur who is using RADIO. The QSO is every bit as real as if I was actually using a radio myself.
I do NOT connect to other amateurs who are also just sitting at their PC, because that is just internet chat in an amateur format, which is laughable and doesn't interest me... HOWEVER it works perfectly well for thousands of people who enjoy it, so why knock it? Must some of you be so arrogant that you have to put down other people for not sharing your precise set of interests?
A better topic for eham would be "Why are there so many bigots online, when on the air they are perfectly pleasant and reasonable?". This internet thing certainly seems to bring out the worst in people!
If amateur voice over IP is 'not ham radio' for you, that's fine, just ignore it. Don't whinge on about it and make a boring tool of yourself!
Amateur is a personal hobby. It is up to you to get what you can out of it, and perhaps contribute back what you can. It is entirely up to YOU how you progress. No-one else can spoil it for you unless YOU LET THEM. Echolink is not spoiling anything for you, so why complain about it?
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by LC2LCT on September 22, 2003
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Why not move this war to www.ham.WAR.com??
I have been testing Echolink in Bergen (Norway) and i have only nice reports from this system.
First of all the people using it the first time was those "real" HAMs who knows CW and who dislikes computers for everything but logging.
Why was i rigging up the Echolink? For me it was a new "media" and i would like to test this and the 70cm band here in norway are more or less dead. So the 70cm is dead and we have more and more comersial trafick on the amateur frequencies, and yes they do have permission to do this.
So instead of losing the 70cm any more, trafick on the band is the only cure..
Mye experience with Echolink?
I have good reports from Norwegian people working/living in UK, Iceland etc and they can now talk to their friends in Norway when HF is useless (yes HF can be useless on some bands)
And as some one wrote earlier not every one can raise a big antennae some are happy if they can use an dipole for 10m band if u get my point.
In Norway there are very few repeaters wich u can open another repeater with for longer distance.
With Echolink i can talk to other amateurs in other cities with my hanheld and it's fantastic.
If people are against Echolink then dont use it.
If people are against CW dont use it.
If people are afraid that echolink is taking over HF/VHF/UHV etc forget it..
Echolink is a extra tool for the HAMers to utilice..
What about people using PSK32,RTTY,SSTV etc using computers is this HAM ?? Shouldnt the radio have a keyboard and decode/encode these modes without a computer??
As long as the QSO on Echolink goes in this pattern:
radio<-->echolink<--internet-->echolink<-->radio
and not
PC<-->echolink<--internet-->echolink<-->PC
then it's all about radio.
And for emergensy traffick?? Yes as long as the internet is up an running it's possible to use echolink.
The internet was made for war/emergensy events to get a big network. So even when big parts from the net are not working the rest is working 100% this is not the truth about phonelines.
And yes internet stops working when the power is gone so does your HF radio if u dont have batterie backup or a small generator.
And yes most people are connected to the public internet so not many ISP are running emergency power on the ruters etc.
And yes now i realy have to destroy all my radios, internet and build my self a QRP rig and leran CW
Yes please forgive me i dont know CW my radio license has been convertet from LC2LCT (technical) to LA3QMA due to new regulations..
And BTW was the FIRST CW message on the air or was it on a cable from one train station to another??
73 to all who are willing to explore the fun of radios and not stopping the future.
Kai
LA3QMA
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB0QX on September 22, 2003
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As usual, the low or no-coders, like the one above, just don't get it..
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC5PVJ on September 22, 2003
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Dell computer has their new rigs on sale. You dont even have to use a antenna!!!!
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by NY7Q on September 22, 2003
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I think you are mixed up in the brain. Radio is not dying. Sure computers have changed radio, but not killed/killing it. I get on IRLP. Its just internet browzing. Its not really ham radio. Its for the nerds who for some reason have pulled out the lazy stops on learning CW. They got their Phd, but then got lazy. Simple!! Ham radio is not for every Joe/Jane in the general public. Playing with circuits, copying CW is ham radio. the rest go away.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by LC2LCT on September 22, 2003
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>by KB0QX on September 22, 2003
>The reason that I do not like Echolink is the >security of the system. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE can >download and install the program on their PC. Then >with a stolen call, and a hacked Internet account >>(such as an AOL dial-up), cause havoc on the air, and >not be traceable. If the same person does this with >RF, they are traceable. I for one hope that the FCC >steps in and eliminates this mode soon. Echolink is >not, and will not be an asset to Amateur Radio.
Security??
Anyone can buy a HAM rig. Anyone can search in the country callsign database. Anyone can transmit with different callsign every time and in a much easyer way than using Echolink. If u are talking about VHF/UHF then it's easyer to get the people transmiting without echolink illegaly even if they change callsign every time.
But there are rarely any traffick on VHF/UHF anyway.
Echolink requires verification of your license. Eiter from your countrys local callsign database or a photocopy, even this is not secure enough but should be the first step to stop "pirates".
Echolink require a valid registered callsign from the iLink/Echolink database before any connections.
Echolink can disable different callsigns and nettwork connections.
So if people are modifying the software and hacking the echolink server then security is broken bigtime.
But even packet radio and aprs can be used with illegal callsigns and the user is very hard to track.
(APRS stations using NOCALL or a stolen callsign with no GPS coordinates)
Even on contests there are numeros illegal callsign on HF. And people blindingly opening the VHF/UHF repeaters is also a problem not so easy to solve because they only send the tone to open and to pinpoint his location is difficult.
And this state of an emergency with illegal users on echolink i havent heard of any true storries about this.
So the danger of echolink running crazy is a problem that i understand can be a problem. But anyhow all the links can be disabled by the user via internet. And all the amateurs responsible for the link in the local area should have acces to this functions. Then it's possible to stop the tranceiver or kick people out of the net.
So then the only problem is PC<-->PC connections going crazy and thats not a HAM problem??
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB4HQA on September 22, 2003
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Ok, for one thing echolink is a tool , to me at least got a friend in fla and hf band is not open , get on repeater local to him in fla thru echolink , will it replace hf ... heck no , the hobby is strong and im sorry but if anyone has been to a local hamfest as of late you would notice that what hf rigs are for sale are holding value pretty good , so for one , i am not worried about the hobby . As far as echolink , its a mode of communication , i call it instant messenger for hams, it will never never, replace hf communications .
Tom Samacicio KB4HQA North Ga
Serving amateur radio since 1983 . hi hi
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by N4GI on September 22, 2003
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Does the alleged "technical competence" of the no-code movement stop short of putting up real antennas now?? I see some fatal flaws in the NCI arguments....
Blake N4GI
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by N2BR on September 22, 2003
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Well to be frank that there been several times i have heard bootlegger useing ham calls on repeaters in other area,Truckers i heard on local repeater passing in the area and the call they were useing was not in the database.So bootleggers can be on echolink irlp and even VHF UHF HF and Repeaters.Just listen to 75 meters there alot of them on and they been on for years.
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by KI4AZX on September 22, 2003
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Gee, what happens when the world goes dark and the iLinkers don't have power: how many of them have backup generators supporting their PC's? I guess that they will than need a HT. But I also guess that they feel they are bringing the "SPORT" into the 21 century.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by K2ACX on September 22, 2003
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I consider EchoLink handy for certain casual purposes: keeping up with friends on the local machine after you've moved, for example.
But, sometimes it just gets irritating. You're in a conversation on the repeater. Out of nowhere a robotic voice interrupts to announce a 'station' has just connected. Not bothering to listen first, whoever it is starts some sort of long-winded CQ call. Half the time they don't speak English, or they have a serious problem with audio quality, or both.
Then the robotic voice comes up again. Another whole repeater somewhere in Scotland has just connected to you and there's a five-way QSO in progress over there! Then- as if it couldn't get any better - Newsline and the ARRL Letter, XYZ Conference Server, Timeouts, Disconnects, etc. etc. etc.....
If I'm on the repeater and someone connects via EchoLink, I'll talk to him or her. After all, you don't get anywhere being unfriendly. But with 90% of the contacts consisting of some form of "I can't hear you," it's tempting to just ignore.
I can be patient with this stuff on HF, where everyone has a radio and an antenna and deserves to know the result of the effort they're expending to work me. I use a repeater to talk to local friends and meet new local ops in an environment that is relatively free of interference. EchoLink is just another disruption and, unfortunately, doesn't seem quite worth the trouble.
All the best,
Brian K2ACX
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by LC2LCT on September 22, 2003
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>RE:by K2ACX on September 22, 2003
>But, sometimes it just gets irritating. You're in a >conversation on the repeater. Out of nowhere a >robotic voice interrupts to announce a 'station' has >just connected. Not bothering to listen first, >whoever it is starts some sort of long-winded CQ >call. Half the time they don't speak English, or they >have a serious problem with audio quality, or both.
Yes this i agree to but this is porly settings from the "sysop". Echolink has a test server where u can actualy hear the audio u are sending.
And the Sysop mode on Echolink there is possible to NOT enable a link if there are a carrier on the repeater.
So shame on all echolink sysops who ignores these settings.
>If I'm on the repeater and someone connects via >EchoLink, I'll talk to him or her. After all, you >don't get anywhere being unfriendly. But with 90% of >the contacts consisting of some form of "I can't hear >you," it's tempting to just ignore.
This again is poorly testing before starting the link. And i hope every users do use the test tools before the echolink is public to everybody.
When i started my echolink on a local repeater i only allowed callsigns from my own country and this was after i had been testing the system on a "non public" frequency.
73 de LA3QMA
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by WI3K on September 22, 2003
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All the back-biting, name calling and just plain stupidity is why I'm removing this from my favorites right now. A lot of people here need to grow up and get a life. As far as actually spending money to subscribe and support this insanity, forget it. Good bye e-ham.
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by KE4ZHN on September 22, 2003
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Here we go! First we had to beat the code no code debate to death, and now we get the echolink bashing wars to beat to death here. Bottom line is, echolink is a nice "toy" for amateurs to use to keep in touch when conditions are flat, or you wish to work repeaters all over the world that otherwise wouldnt be possible via the airwaves. Will it ever replace HF? Hardly! Is it a bad thing? No! Its just another mode we as hams can use for enjoyment, so whats the big deal? Most amateurs have a computer in the shack and use them for digital modes or logging or other amateur related things, so whats so wrong with using it to communicate via the internet? No its not hf radio, but it does use radio at one end at least, and if you work computer to computer so what? Your still talking to a ham on the other end. At least they are supposed to be a ham anyway! Sure, the system is wide open to bootleggers, but so is hf and all the bands for that matter. How tough is it for a pirate to bootleg a legit callsign and get on the air illegally? The future of ham radio is alive and well and only the doomsayers will think otherwise. The only thing that disturbs me is the fact that soon, the testing will be so watered down that your going to see the bands flooded with people who cant even solder a mike plug without burning their fingers or make a simple patch cable without shorting the PL 259`s because they dont have to have any technical knowledge to get a license! Anyone can memorize answers to a test, especially when they publish them online! The big push to expand the ranks in ham radio is fueled by people who stand to make a ton of easy money selling rigs, amps, antennas etc. etc. Sure, lets make everyone an extra just by answering a question like "whats ham radio?" Ok you passed, your an extra! Ok, so I exaggerated, but its going in that direction. Echolink is but a small slice of ham radio, so if you enjoy it, fine, if you dont, then do something else. Why is it that some folks who hate an aspect of this hobby have to force their opinions down peoples throats just because THEY dont like something? Im not wild about RTTY or psk 31 or aprs, but just because I dont like it, doesnt mean others wont enjoy it does it? Just because I prefer to ragchew on hf doesnt mean the other bands all suck does it? Live and let live, to each his / her own. Some folks like apples, some like oranges, let them enjoy what they like, it shouldnt matter to you unless they try to force it on you. Just my opinion for whatever its worth.
73 Rich
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by PY1BR on September 22, 2003
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Yes, if it doesn't involve wireless communications, then it's NOT HAM RADIO. I agree that many people may be interested to communicate through the Internet, where they are always sure to contact each other, but the "charm" or the challenge to get in contact through radio, where the antenna system should be the best as we can, and even sometimes we cannot contact, that’s Ham Radio. In the old days, Ham Radio was mostly built your own equipment. Today, the main task is to arrange radios, antennas, accessories as best as we can to have a good station for DX, contesting, etc. For me Ham Radio is learning what is really happening. Internet we don’t need to learn what is happening. Just chat….It’s not enough for me. 73
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by K2ACX on September 22, 2003
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To LA3QMA:
I've heard about the test server and A FEW stations I've worked have obviously used it first. Like you, I hope all new EchoLink users take the time to evaluate their signal.
I hope no one takes my comment about English the wrong way. I wasn't suggesting that non-US stations be barred or anything. It's just that I feel a QSO with someone where a language barrier exists is more appropriate on HF, where it's part of the challenge and (ultimately) the magic. I should've expressed it that way the first time- apologies.
All the best,
Brian K2ACX
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by N8PPZ on September 22, 2003
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I would have to disagree with all who feel echolink/ilrp is not "REAL RADIO" or a threat to the future of ham radio.
Echolink is just another mode.
The same people complaining probably complained when when Nocode techs were introduced, complained when during license restructuing and complained about vanity callsigns.
Nobody is forcing anyone to run echolink/voip. Just like nobody is forcing anyone to use CW.
I am a general class ham and have been so for many years. I have experienced quote, "real" unquote radio and it's fun, it has it's place.
I purchased a home 2 years ago and don't have a single outside antenna up, eventhough I have a Yaesu FT-847 sitting in my shack.
getting antennas up is one of the last things on my list of have to do's.
I enjoy VHF/UHF, HF operating, but not having my verticle, or G5RV up at this time precludes me from operating HF.
I was introduced in my to Echolink, and I am hooked. For my needs it's great.
I run a link station. I have a PC hooked up to my FT-847 using a RIGBLASTER NOMIC sound card interface. I have a 2/400 magmount sitting on my filling cabinet. I can walk around my house with an HT, turing my FT-847 into a repeater more or less.
Granted I'm using a 440 simplex freq, but I now have the potential to operate beyond the walls of my house.
People who purport "real radio" or feel they are purists probably resented "REPEATERS" when they came out for similar reasons, I can just imagine them sitting around saying, "If I can't work direct to another station, then it's not worth working."
Amatuer radio is about experimentation, and innovation. It's about moving forward, it's about trying new things.
There is nothing wrong with operating CW if that's all you want to do.
There is nothing wrong with staying a nocode tech if you want to.
There is nothing wrong if all you do is get on your 80meter net everynight if it keeps you active in your hobby.
Just like there is nothing wrong with those of use who are on the "Bleeding" edge of innovation using ILRP/echolink.
One other thing, for people who live in apartments or condo's that can't put up antennas it's perfect.
Somone once said, "the bus of innovation is coming, you can either jump on and go for a nice smooth ride, or you can get run over by it"
I prefer to go for a nice ride and enjoy the hobby.
There's room for everyone
Greg Smith, N8PPZ
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by W4MDL on September 22, 2003
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I don't recall anyone on echolink getting Ducie Island. LOL. I use echolink to stay in touch with friends around the country, but HF is still the king of my hobby. As to Real Radio or not, I think echolink and IRLP are great additions to the radio art. It is an advancment with the times and a great resource for emergency communications. Did you know that IRLP links almost all the populated islands in the pacific with just a whim? That could come in handy. As for users that only use echolink with there ticket, thats there sad fault. They will be the ones missing out.
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by K0RGR on September 22, 2003
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The future of ham radio is extremely dim if we keep publishing concentrated ignorance like most of this thread in public where prospective hams can see it.
Why people feel the need to attack it is completely beyond me. It's a fun toy. Yes, you can't do Echolink with a J-38 key - that seems to be the real issue here for many of those posting - just another way to put down the no-coders. This mean-spirited debate is beneath the dignity of those with the real ham spirit.
This is just another reason that I am now strongly advocating the demise of code tests. We need to put an end to this garbage forever.
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by K1RFD on September 22, 2003
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Like a lot of hams, I enjoy many different aspects of the hobby. My favorite activity, when I have the time, is operating CW on HF.
But two things should be remembered. First, VoIP systems such as IRLP, WIRES, and EchoLink are nothing without amateur radio. That's their reason for being.
Second, we should always look for ways to enhance Amateur Radio's communications potential. Systems that bring together the best of both worlds -- like FindU for APRS and EchoLink for repeaters -- produce systems that are greater than the sum of their parts, systems that Amateurs are uniquely qualified to invent and put to use for public service.
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by KD5ING on September 22, 2003
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Just food for thought - this email was sent to me by one of the North Carolina Public Information Officers concerning them using an Echolink server we maintain here in Nacogdoches just for emergency communications. I will omit his name and call for privacy reasons.
"Dear Tim:
We here in coastal southeastern North Carolina are welcoming a sunny day
and give thanks to you and your colleagues for developing the Echolink
technology that allowed us to link to affected areas. With the sunspot
cycle in the tank, only the largest of beams or longest of wire antennas can
work even moderately well on HF. For those of us with compromised HF
systems during this hurricane, IRLP and Echolink were godsends as a
replacement for HF."
Echolink is just another tool in our utility belts. As emergency communicators, our job is to make sure the message gets through to the intended recipient using whatever best fits the task, including Echolink, HF, fax machine, telephone and even a courier!
So, pound that brass, burn that ether, use phone 'til your hoarse, and have fun!
Take care,
Tim Lewallen, KD5ING
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by KC8SKX on September 22, 2003
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Only for the hams that are too cheap to buy equipment
The fun of ham radio (for me) is to have excellent equipment capable of sending a great signal all over the world independant of any other means but my antennas.
KC8SKX
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by KC8SKX on September 22, 2003
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Only for the hams that are too cheap to buy equipment
The fun of ham radio (for me) is to have excellent equipment capable of sending a great signal all over the world independant of any other means but my antennas.
KC8SKX
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by 2INTEREST on September 22, 2003
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Echolink in computer to computer mode is not radio, therefore it is not ham radio.....but when it is used to link to a remote radio and call over the air, it certainly can be considered some sort of ham radio.
As to the future of ham radio, -- too many "hams" nowadays got their tickets just to talk. These hams don't bother with experimenting with or building anything. All they want is to lay down their $$$, get commercially produced rigs, cabling and antennas--some even pay others to hook it all up for them--and then start their baloney about being high and mighty and better than a lowly tech class licensee because they've passed a 5 wpm code test!
These same hams start with the snotty attitude and name calling toward those tech class licensees who are trying to get into the technical end of the hobby. (Although there are some higher class hams who do experiment and build that have that same attitude also)
The future of ham radio is what WE HAMS make it. Its our choice, either get off our high horses (and our collective as*es) and get back to what ham radio used to be all about, or just continue down this road, letting the masses decide for us, and letting ham radio devolve into something that none of us really want to see.
Hams experiment and try new things. THAT is what the future of ham radio should be. If that includes echolink, THEN SO BE IT!!!
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by W4CNG on September 22, 2003
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Tried to get set-up with echo-link, did not ever get a reply. BTW I've never heard of "BackHoe Fade" on an HF radio path, only microwave and the all to easy chop up buried fiber optic cable. Also, VOIP is what Verizon is using for their "Push to Wait" walk alot and sometimes talk fone. Radio will be around a long time after the "Fads" are over with...
Steve W4CNG
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by W9SZ on September 22, 2003
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Please look at the definition of radio in a physics or EE text. I have nothing against Echolink or VoIP and they are fun to play with, but they are not purely radio methods of communication. They don't compare to those watery signals coming over the poles that many of us HF ops love so well; they sound nothing like aurora signals or multipath on a VHF/UHF CW or SSB signal that many of us VHF ops enjoy.
There is a certain unpredictableness about radio communication as practiced by radio amateurs that makes it an adventure; from one day to the next you don't know for sure if a band will be open and where it will be open to. You can guess but sometimes Mother Nature changes things around a bit. That's what makes radio fun for me.
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by G3SEA on September 22, 2003
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If the ultimate HF disaster of BPL should ever occur we may well all be riding those same power lines on EchoLink.Then the Big 3 will only be selling 2 M
HT's and Mobiles :(
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by KG4CBJ on September 22, 2003
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Everything evolves. Ge I 'd love to be stuck with NC183D and homebrew xmitter and transmatch, however I love all my Yaesu goodies capable of tuning to less than 1Hz accuracy, changing modes at the flick of a switch. Get your head out of the sand. The new technology is an asset and an adjunct to all of the other modes. I bet you won;t be talking to me when I go digital on SSB. Too bad, its going to be as much fun as PSK where I can pull barely perceptible signals out of Asiatic Russia with full copy. Just more junk? Lets stop evolving and see what happens to the hobby.
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by VE3EGA on September 22, 2003
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Andrew,
Seems like you opened a typical eham 'Pandora's Box' eh? and as invited, here' my 2c worth:
I really like ECHOLINK..... Where else can I talk to my buddy in Manchester on his way home from work on 2m - when HF has crapped out!
Also, I made a bunch of new friends back in my old home Town... nice people - some of whom are still learning 'the gentle art of talking and learning from each other as like-minded people' do in a new and exciting hobby.
I hear them, excited and exchanging ideas while learning about the practical side of Ham Radio.... ask yourself - is this really so wrong? Maybe there is a radio in there somewhere, maybe not - the topic is Ham Radio which ultimately is good for this slowly dying hobby.
Also, what is this thing with CB hating?
Is it the fact that there are REAL PEOPLE out there talking quite freely, enjoying themselves and using their own conventions - does the average ham think he is above them on the communications social scale or is he jealous that they are enjoying their form of communication in a way that we hams seem to have forgotten? Remember, if they are using CB Radios for talking they may just want to explore ham radio as well someday so why alienate them with anti-CB comments?
I really feel sorry for any new ham today suffering these 'holier than thou' mostly cranky old farts that frequent our hobby - shame on you for reducing this once noble and sociable hobby to an electronics 'caste' system. You are a disgrace to Ham Radio!
I am seasoned enough to deal with you, but is it any wonder that brand new hams prefer 'kindred spirits' and (maybe) EchoLink rather than put up with all this crap from people who should know a lot better?
You can just imagine the newcomer being heterodyned, jammed or being forced to QSY because one of the LIDS above didnt like what they heard!
Thanks for EchoLink - no LIDS, no QRM - just gentle folk enjoying their hobby as it was meant to be :)
But thanks Andrew for raising the issue. KN
Terry, VE3EGA
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by WB2GOF on September 22, 2003
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Trolling for dollars? Please. Everyone has their own ideas what constitutes Amateur Radio. Please don't express vile criticism of that aspect of Ham Radio that the next guy might find attractive. Oh, but I forgot...we're Hams and can't fathom a vitrious critique without posting it!
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by KG4LMU on September 22, 2003
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Echolink failed in this case because the links werent set up properly. I sure most of the rf radios were running on generators. If your going to state something state the facts, If the echolinks had dedicated resources like you rf stations,Echolink as you put it wouldnt have failed.
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by N6HBJ on September 23, 2003
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The sky is falling the sky is falling. The end of ham radio is near!
Oh geez, would you guys relax already? Ham radio aint going nowhere. The radio aspect will always be there. Echolink and IRLP are just adjuncts to the hobby to make it more interesting. If anything, these adjuncts help support the hobby by drawing in people who may find some of these modes fun.
Relax guys. Reeeelax.
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by KB9ZYW on September 23, 2003
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Amateur Radio, above all, was renown for embracing - and attracting - the tinkerer, the experimenter, the pioneer.
So, why now does it seem as though the collective membership has decided to "circle the wagons" and reject those who would help make the hobby RELEVANT in the 21st century?
Given it's pioneering heritage (e.g. Marconi, Tesla, etc.) Amateur Radio should be willing to take a lesson from the avant-guardes and pioneers of the computer / internet age (e.g. Andreesen, Jobs, Berners-Lee).
Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to try things like Wide-Area-Wireless networking, or Wired-to-Wireless communications links? Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to embrace a multitude of "User Interface" forms - from the grand-ole' radio-knob, to the Laptop control station? Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to embrace PROGRAM CODE, as much as it does the TELEGRAPH CODE?
To be sure, such things as basic radio and electronics principles are very important to teach, and I strongly support the effort to make sure all Hams are at least marginally capable of communicating with nothing more than a crystal, a coil, and a key. But why should we Hams be so hell-bent on making sure that nothing more than the BARE MINIMUM is all that is acceptable?
Could it be that the hobby has lost it's pioneering, tinkerer's spirit, and truly become nothing more than a Washington lobby, with a tunnel-vision focus on nothing more than government protection of it's precious bandwidth and its license structure?
Well, consider this for a moment:
If Amateur Radio were truly relevant in the 21st century, it wouldn't need a Washington lobby to protect it - but it does.
If Amateur Radio were truly on the cutting edge, and still populated with gutsy pioneers, then these big tech companies would be falling all over themselves to copy what we're doing, or at least to snatch up its brightest minds - but they aren't.
Instead, we are a mere feeble echo of what has already long since been in circulation in the commercial world, and as long as we are going to continue to FEAR and REJECT new technologies, then we will continue to fade into the history books as just another Pre-Technology "Fad" to come out of World War II.
Just my opinion,
Greg.
KB9ZYW
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by N4GI on September 23, 2003
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The NC Public Information Officer wrote:
<<<With the sunspot
cycle in the tank, only the largest of beams or longest of wire antennas can
work even moderately well on HF. >>>
HUH??? Thank goodness for accurate public information....
I'll remember to lengthen my wire antennas and make my beams "larger" as the bottom of this cycle approaches.
73,
Blake N4GI
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by HUGO on September 23, 2003
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The NC Public Information Officer wrote:
<<<With the sunspot
cycle in the tank, only the largest of beams or longest of wire antennas can
work even moderately well on HF. >>>
Your post should read, Echolink worked in the NON-EFFECTED areas.
I live in the EFFECTED AREA. I lost power, and phone service (land and cell). Echolink failed. But, I was able to communicate on 40 and 75 with my HF rig with a generator. Please refrain from passing mis-leading info in the future.
HUGO
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by W5AU on September 23, 2003
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"So, why now does it seem as though the collective membership has decided to "circle the wagons" and reject those who would help make the hobby RELEVANT in the 21st century?
Given it's pioneering heritage (e.g. Marconi, Tesla, etc.) Amateur Radio should be willing to take a lesson from the avant-guardes and pioneers of the computer / internet age (e.g. Andreesen, Jobs, Berners-Lee)."
Marconi and Tesla would turn over in their grave if
they saw what was being done to Amateur Radio. If
you want to advance the hobby, make the exams more
RELEVANT to the hobby. A night of memorizing will
get you a license today. What kind of advancement
do you think that will give the hobby ????????????
Up the requirements, dont dumb them down.
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by KC2SSB on September 23, 2003
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"With new methods of communication, Amateur Radio may slowly lose the RADIO part of it. (snip)
On Internet links, there is too little RADIO involved. If you get your license and only run Echolink, IRLP, iLink you're not actually a RADIO OPERATOR."
And yet you post this on the internet rather than a packet BBS!?
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by KB5SXH on September 23, 2003
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As far as internet and radio:
I spend more time fiddling with my computer than I spend on the air. I currently live in an apartment, so aside from an HT, my shack is my car... I suppose I could try to set up an HF in the apartment, but I'm doing fine with it mobile...
I have never once used echolink. I've listened to it, but it doesn't interest me a great deal. If I want to talk to someone in Australia or accross the country, I have many more reliable and efficient methods. My interest in HF and HAM in general is to be able to talk to people relying on only my station and his. Sure, I use repeaters, as a convenience. Often times the repeater does not operate as well as simplex, so I use simplex, or even go HF.
The gentleman who mentioned Echolink's failure in the east coast: I hope nobody was seriously relying on it. If they were, they hopefully have learned their lesson.
I am heavily involved in the local emergency communications group. The only time we bring up echolink is to laugh at it. Not that it's that bad as a concept, it's just not radio, and it's not reliable enough for us.
Just my thoughts,
John
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by KC5NYJ on September 23, 2003
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Hmmm...interesting.. Seems to me Echolink qualifies as radio under one circumstance, that being you access your network via a wireless NIC. What about using a wireless headset into your PC, then wireless NIC to a router, which in my case also is wireless to the ISP? So, when I'm on Echolink(which is very seldom since it's boring), I'm actually using 3 RF links to get to the internet, plus whatever link the guy on the other end is using. Is this radio? Perhaps. It does use RF. You can indeed create long hops using yagis or dishes. Is it "ham" radio? No. Did it take some technical skills to get it working? No more than the skills required to operate a modern HF rig. What point am I trying to get across? No point in particular. Just an observation.
Echolink and it's clones are not a replacement nor even an alternative to Ham radio. Are they parts of a technical hobby which can be integrated with Ham radio? You bet.
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by KC5CXK on September 23, 2003
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Echolink is nice......I like it! That don't mean YOU have to like it. Is it Ham radio? Well let's see....I connect to a repeater via the internet and talk over a local repeater to a mobile. I would say that's PART of Ham radio. What I like to do is take a little bit of various modes and make them mine. I taylor Ham radio to fit ME...not the other way around. AND....I try and get other people involved the in hobby by showing off the neat little things you can do with Ham radio. Like Echolink!!
KC5CXK
Perry
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by HUGO on September 23, 2003
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Echolink is wonderful as long as it keeps the no-coders off of HF and on VHF.
HUGO
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on September 23, 2003
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"If you get your license and only run Echolink, IRLP, iLink you're not actually a RADIO OPERATOR"
Why worry about how other people have FUN? Especially, if they aren't QRMing you?
Have FUN
Bob
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by KC5NYJ on September 23, 2003
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AE7G- good point
I wonder why THESE guys are so worried about keeping no-coders and low coders off the band? I mean, it's not like anybody wants to talk to THEM anyway. No-coders will talk to other no-coders. Low coders will talk to other low-coders. Grizzled, calloused, die-hard CW ops will tap to others of their ilk. It'll be grand... Plus, just think of all the opportunities for these weather-beaten veterans to get off their fat or withered arses and track down some interfering neophytes! Then they can exercise "Tough Elmering".
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by AB6CQ on September 24, 2003
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Different people have different takes on this. I've tried different modes and enjoyed them all. That includes Echolink. Technology is advancing everyday. This brings us Echolink and other future modes that may have pc's involved. I just take it as a good marriage between the computer world and RF. Sure it's not ham radio if no RF is involved. I have put up my own node that has Echolink tied to my repeater. Don't tell me there's no RF involved there. I have worked a variety of operators from pc users to people in England with their ht's. Whether we like it or not computers are here to stay and controlling more and more of different systems we see directly or indirectly. It's just whatever works and for me and a lot of other people Echolink works. When another thing comes out I'll be trying it and use it if it works for me. I guess some people are just scared or intimidated to try out new things but that's ok.
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by N2WJW on September 24, 2003
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We can talk about how far we have come with the latest gizmos, whatever anyone says....radios are radios, computers are computers, period. Two different things, two different ways of communicating.
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by DOODAH on September 24, 2003
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>by HUGO
> Echolink is wonderful as long as it keeps the no-coders off of HF and on VHF.
And the inverse... Echolink is wonderful if miserable bigots avoid it :o)
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by G8GFH on September 24, 2003
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Greetings;
You suggest nobody builds their own microcomputer, programs in Assembler, services their own car, etc... I think you are mistaken. I have lost count of the number of microprocessor systems I have designed and built (for units like SSTV decoder, RTTY terminal, station programmer, etc. etc. as well as other peripheral controllers) in addition to having written the firmware / software, much of it indeed in Assembler. I am currently in the process of designing my own HF - UHF receiver system, right from the front end to the DSP56000 'back end' parts. I design and build my own QRM/QRN filters and other interfaces. Yes, I also service my own car, excepting the mandatory annual test which by law has to be performed by a registered garage. I've been told by my local photographic store that I'm the only one in my area still developing and printing my own colour work as well as black-and-white; however I cannot believe that to really be the case. Much less can I believe that there must be many others in this hobby doing the same things as myself.
best 73's, Trevor.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KD5YDC on September 24, 2003
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Amateur Radio, above all, was renown for embracing - and attracting - the tinkerer, the experimenter, the pioneer.
So, why now does it seem as though the collective membership has decided to "circle the wagons" and reject those who would help make the hobby RELEVANT in the 21st century?
Given it's pioneering heritage (e.g. Marconi, Tesla, etc.) Amateur Radio should be willing to take a lesson from the avant-guardes and pioneers of the computer / internet age (e.g. Andreesen, Jobs, Berners-Lee).
Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to try things like Wide-Area-Wireless networking, or Wired-to-Wireless communications links? Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to embrace a multitude of "User Interface" forms - from the grand-ole' radio-knob, to the Laptop control station? Why SHOULDN'T the hobby be willing to embrace PROGRAM CODE, as much as it does the TELEGRAPH CODE?
To be sure, such things as basic radio and electronics principles are very important to teach, and I strongly support the effort to make sure all Hams are at least marginally capable of communicating with nothing more than a crystal, a coil, and a key. But why should we Hams be so hell-bent on making sure that nothing more than the BARE MINIMUM is all that is acceptable?
Could it be that the hobby has lost it's pioneering, tinkerer's spirit, and truly become nothing more than a Washington lobby, with a tunnel-vision focus on nothing more than government protection of it's precious bandwidth and its license structure?
Well, consider this for a moment:
If Amateur Radio were truly relevant in the 21st century, it wouldn't need a Washington lobby to protect it - but it does.
If Amateur Radio were truly on the cutting edge, and still populated with gutsy pioneers, then these big tech companies would be falling all over themselves to copy what we're doing, or at least to snatch up its brightest minds - but they aren't.
Instead, we are a mere feeble echo of what has already long since been in circulation in the commercial world, and as long as we are going to continue to FEAR and REJECT new technologies, then we will continue to fade into the history books as just another Pre-Technology "Fad" to come out of World War II.
Just my opinion,
Greg.
KB9ZYW
Hear, Hear! And a tip o' the hat.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC8PMM on September 24, 2003
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Computer to computer is not actually Ham radio, but I believe computer to repeater IS. If people like to do it, LET EM HAVE FUN! That's what a hobby is about, all you nitpicking busy-bodies.
Andrew
N8ARY
Echolink Node 73469
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KD5YDC on September 24, 2003
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We can talk about how far we have come with the latest gizmos, whatever anyone says....radios are radios, computers are computers, period. Two different things, two different ways of communicating.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that when you purchase a rig these days, it already has at least one computer in it? Usually more.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC8PMM on September 24, 2003
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"And the other person is right, cell phones do have more in common with ham radio than echolink does."
My cell phone has more in common with Echolink. It's a Nextel. "Can you hear me now? NO!"
Really- If PC tp PC is not Ham Radio, then why are we talking about it on a Ham Radio site? So what? If I call my Ham friend on a cell phone, should he flame me for not using the radio since I could have used bandwidth on 2 meters to call?
There's more to life than "TRUE" HF RADIO and CW.
I think some of us need to spend time on a job, girlfriend, or wife!
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by AE6IP on September 24, 2003
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Ham radio is what hams do with radios, within the bounds of their governing regulations. Echolink is ham-to-ham communication involving at least two ham radios, sometimes 3, and a wide variety of other media.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by W8VOM on September 24, 2003
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EchoLink Ham Radio? NO but I do use it on occasion,I have never thought of it as Ham Radio.W8VOM
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KK7AC on September 25, 2003
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My God people, it's just another MODE. The intent is not to replace, etc. it's there as another means. Yes it is radio if two radios are on either end....the internet is simply a backbone. Yes I agree that it is not DX (nothing earks me more than someone wanting a QSL card for a connection) Echolink, if set up on both ends is clear, interferance free FM simplex quality. However, this requires alot of things to happen; the server must be up and working, both stations must have a working internet connection, both must have a computer and properly wired radios for it to work. On the other hand, "skywave" radio can be deployed without all of this infastructure, however, can at times be unusable as well due to atmospheric conditions, QRM, etc. So both in this example have advantages and disadvantages. This is why all hams should be able to use all modes at their disposal: HF, VHF, UHF, satellite, CW, packet, APRS, etc.
Thats what makes this such a great hobby....better than ANY radio service out there. It's our ability to deploy and overcome any condion with radio communications. Echolink is a match made in Heaven between the computer, the internet, and radio. Is it perfect? No. Neither is 75 meters during July either. If we are on 15 meters and the band drops out do we sit ther and cry? No. We move to 17 or 20 meters to complete the QSO. Experiencing a solar flare? AO-40 will still work, maybe even Echolink. Trying for that VP8 on 20 meter DXCC? SSB may not work, but PSK or CW may get you through. 2 meters not enough to make it through that mountain valley? Try 6 or 40 meters to make that connection. Do you see the pattern here?
If echoilink is not radio (again assuming radios on both ends of the connection) then neither is a repeater or any of the satellites flying above us. Hey thats a grat idea; lets get a flame going to elimanate repeaters and sats from ham radio!
Com'on guys we have other things to worry about in ham such as BPL, CCR's, cry babies wanting to elimanate the code from our tests, enforcement, etc.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KA1MIT on September 25, 2003
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Ham radio will continue to be of major service. I was first licensed in 1965 and have seen many changes. I'm not sure if it will ultra-wideband, spread-spectrum, or some new technology, but in time of emergency, our people now need emergency DATA communication in addition to voice. I look forward to ham data rates increasing to the point that when and if the internet goes down locally and doctors/emt people need to communicate DATA, amateur radio will be there as the backup system of dedicated individuals we've been fortunate to have for years. Obviously packet as it now stands doesn't do it, but I am optimistic for the future.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by W3RAZ on September 25, 2003
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I don't know ANY ham that does not own a radio at least in my area. First, I have no problems with Echolink except one....internet to internet contact.....and you have to initiate those. One option I am wishing for in the software is a option to deny connections to your station from internet based hams. Also, there may be a way to do this, but set it up on the repeater side to hit in a code to bring up echolink and then have the user enter the stations call sign and have the repeater controller poll to see if the ham is online. If he is, connect him to the repeater. Echolink is a good thing and for hams just starting out, they can use it to practice good operating. The internet is also a useful tool for linking machines and also for you keeping track of people who do not have HF Privledges from the road. I talked on my HT to a friend using Echolink in PA. He's not a general class ham and even if he had 10 m like I do, he's probably too close for skip an I would probably be too weak at 25 w for groundwave. That and the applachians are in between us so there'd probably be no line of sight. Not saying it isn't possbile, but not likely for me to setup a sked from OH to PA on 10m. We chat on Echolink....either one of us on the computer and the other on a radio. Works out well....if our schedules would finally mesh! :)
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC5NYJ on September 26, 2003
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What is an "Internet based ham"? DO you mean somebody who has no radio of his own, but uses Echolink to access others radios?
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by W3RAZ on September 26, 2003
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Internet to Internet. I guess I did not make that clear. Echolink should STRESS connecting to RADIOS from the internet or radios to the internet. Not internet to internet...thats yahoo chat.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by K1RFD on September 26, 2003
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W3RAZ: You are correct that the RF linking capability has not been promoted well enough.
In fact, I recently changed the front page of the Web site to underscore the fact that RF links are EchoLink's reason for being.
It has been good to see that the proportion of RF to non-RF logins has been steadily increasing. Now, rougly two-thirds of all nodes are RF links, and they are participating in the great majority of QSOs.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by K0RGR on September 26, 2003
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K1RFD - Thanks for the update Jonathon - it's great to know that we're increasing activity on the air.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by K1CV on September 26, 2003
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I think of EchoLink as a gateway to the whole hobby. No heavy technical experience is required but what a great way to get introduced to the possibilities of what's out there and the players within. If it takes an RF or non-RF VoIP connection to grab another potential HF or VHF operator, then why criticize this form of communications within the ham hobby?
I believe we need to think of VoIP connections as a supplement. I can't think of an easier way to tell a new ham of the modes that are out there or talk with others hams about the hobby. No QRM, no frequency turf battles, no expensive equipment, etc. Like any mode, licensed hams move on and dabble into other modes. New hams that are "EchoLink only" operators will probaby bore over time and move into the RF component of amateur radio at some point. So, why then are we "poo poo-ing" the potential of this form of communication within the hobby? What about Packet BBSes that forward NTS messages via the internet or via PacSat to their destinations across world. No one ever criticized that as much as they have VoIP.
Call VoIP links what you want. If you don't like it, then don't use it (its that simple) but please don't let the negative commentary of VoIP discourage a new ham, or sway a potential new ham, from exploring the hobby. If you need a ham license to participate, then its part of the hobby. Echolink & IRLP have these requirements. This makes it "ham radio" no matter how you look at it.
Curt - K1CV
QCWA
RF Node #4111
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by GUESTMAN on September 27, 2003
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Yes. Although technology is fun and should be a part of ham radio, we are beginning to turn it into Amateur Computing using a fraction of radio. Model railroaders wouldn't want to stop building model railroads and settle for the fun and excitement of a computer image of a MODEL railroad. They use computers to control model railroads but not to take the place of a model railroad with hand made mountains and trees and working lights. To me if you are going to send a radio signal across the world using a computer, why not just email and say "WOW!! My email went to England!" At some time that email goes airborn anyway. Bye.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC8PMM on September 27, 2003
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"RE: Future of Ham RADIO Reply
by KB0QX on September 22, 2003 Mail this to a friend!
The reason that I do not like Echolink is the security of the system. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE can download and install the program on their PC. Then with a stolen call, and a hacked Internet account (such as an AOL dial-up), cause havoc on the air, and not be traceable. If the same person does this with RF, they are traceable. I for one hope that the FCC steps in and eliminates this mode soon. Echolink is not, and will not be an asset to Amateur Radio.
"
Well, I think anyone can go to a Hamfest and buy a 2 meter radio and start kerchunking the repeaters or even use a fake/stolen call. There's more security in Echolink than that. And don't tell me they are traceable. If the fox at the foxhunt was allowed to move between transmissions, he wouldn't ever be found. I can turn off the echolink radio if someone was causing havoc. "Click" - problem solved.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by AE6IP on September 28, 2003
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<< Model railroaders wouldn't want to stop building model railroads and settle for the fun and excitement of a computer image of a MODEL railroad. They use computers to control model railroads but not to take the place of a model railroad with hand made mountains and trees and working lights. >>
You know what? When I'm using 3rdPlanet to develop a model railroad plan, I still feel like I'm doing model railroading.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by HAMSHARK on September 29, 2003
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""The reason that I do not like Echolink
is the security of the system. Anyone,
and I mean ANYONE can download and install
the program on their PC. Then with a stolen
call, and a hacked Internet account (such as
an AOL dial-up), cause havoc on the air, and
not be traceable. If the same person does this
with RF, they are traceable. I for one hope
that the FCC steps in and eliminates this mode
soon. Echolink is not, and will not be an asset to Amateur Radio.""
It is moronic attitudes like this that have been ruining Ham Radio for the last 40 years. There was a point in time when the value of CW and the usefulness of Hams as a national asset was very real. As technology evolved over the years, we as intelligent people should have followed that path and stayed on top. When we had the chance, we failed as a whole by clinging to the old ways and resisting change. This fatal mistake was made when the majority of hams decided to stay in the comfort zone with the rest of the herd.
Regardless of what they say or how they say it, it is the types who hide in the basement with their Vibroplex keys and internet-forum flame throwers who have ruined this hobby.
Rock On!
HAMSHARK
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KD5RGJ on September 29, 2003
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HOW DOES HAMSHARK THINK ONE CAN BE TRACED USING RF AND NOT USING AOL ON THEIR COMPUTER. FINDING THE USER OF AOL
IS JUST LIKE THE OLD"PAPER TRAIL" OF TIMES GONE BY.
IS HAMSHARK HIS CB "HANDLE"?
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by HAMSHARK on September 29, 2003
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KD5RGJ,
First, stop shouting. You appear to be having a tantrum.
Second, cease and desist from talking about the HAMSHARK and CB handles in the same breath. I have been a ham for several decades and am just one of those OF's who doesn't fit the typical OF stereotype.
Third, look at my post again. The first paragraph (in double quotes) is not my opinion. It was part of a previous post. I quoted it for reference and was expressing my opinion on particularly the last sentence.
In case you still haven't figured it out, my position is progressive. I believe that clinging to the past has done Ham Radio a great harm. This attitude needs to stop in order for our hobby to thrive once again.
Rock On!
HAMSHARK
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by VA6MJT on September 29, 2003
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As a new HAM I would like to add what I thought I have noticed in the past readings of many HAM topics.
Here are some of the messages I remember reading about from HAMs of all ages.
This hobby has been built on experimenting, testing, trial and error.
There are areas of the hobby to fit everyone's interests.
Expanding the horizons of the hobby is needed to help promote.
I have been interested in the hobby since I was a young kid. I played with 11 meters for years and had a lot of fun. Learned some great concepts with limitations. My livelihood now is with computers. We all know the world is evolving around the computer era. Who would have thought your fridge was going to talk to you 50 years ago. Why are we not looking and accepting D-Link, Echolink, IRLP aasnd others as part of the hobby. Whom has the right to say, it is or is not radio? Just because you only work DX, does that mean your the only true Radio Operator? If you don't build / test antennas or radios does this make you a bad operator?
I admire all of those individuals that were able to get into the hobby years ago but did you ever think it was never going to change? Are these new interests not experiments ? Some of them have failed remember the Edsel... it was still a car wasn't it?
Why not ease up on some of these new people. If this is the portion of the hobby they enjoy we are just one more step closer to building a larger commuinity. So what if it is not the same part of the hobby you or I like, this does not make it a right or wrong.
I rarely use Echolink but I have it installed. Let's accept that these additions are here and there will be more in the future. Stop looking for the negative, lets figure out how we can make this more cohesive.
I agree that without our founders (older HAMS) we would not have made these technological steps however, these people are going to die off and if we deny that we need to think again. No one has said OUT with the OLD and IN with the NEW, we are growing and some people are not interested in the same objectives that many have been in the past. Unfortunately, within the computer industry we will have ELMERS and yes they will be younger that us.
Here is a personal example. I like to play with antennas, experiment, trial and more than I want errors. I love working the air waves the old fashioned radio way and some computer related as well. I love CW best. I am only 42, live and work in the computer era but that does not entice me to only go that route in the hobby.
My son, almost 19, is not interested in any of the things I do. DX'ing is fun to listen to but he has no ambition to do this or build antennas. He will become a HAM for the computer related protocols. He does not want to talk on the mic nor hunt countries. He will have to write an exam to get there and will still be a HAM (Radio Operator) just like you and I. If he only uses computers in this hobby that is a choice by no one but himself. I will still see him as a HAM and he will still have a callsign.
I realize some of you had to work very hard to become a HAM years ago but you and I know the hobby had to start changing. Just in case you never noticed, the hobby was getting smaller. If these new experiments are what it takes to grow then let's accept it. No one is forcing you to use it.
I have never wanted to work on radio's or build them but this does not mean I am not a radio operator. This is an experimenting hobby remember, HOBBY... some people fly planes, some people fly helicopters and some jets they are all still pilots.
Remember there is no right or wrong in the hobby there is changing interests. Do you see the same posts about APRS probably not because they are not talking or in a CHAT. These are experiments that are helping the hobby grow.
I have noticed a lot of prejudice in this hobby. As a kid and even today, many HAMs turn up their noses at CB'ers. (Although there is a lot more foul mouths and silly activites going on) they still operate a radio. I did it for years and loved it and now I am one of you, imagine that.
With computers and technology we are venturing into different avenues, prepare for more changes because they will be here soon enough. Look at where the CW is headed, can you just ignore what is happening? Just accept it for what its worth. If you don't agree with it, don't use it but why belittle it?
Some of you may or may not agree with what I had to say but these are my opinions and I am entitled to them as well as you are. Not every conversation needs to discuss radio or antennas.
These are my thoughts not yours!
Have a fantstic week all!
VA6MJT@rac.ca
Mike
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by VA6MJT on September 29, 2003
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As a new HAM I would like to add what I thought I have noticed in the past readings of many HAM topics.
Here are some of the messages I remember reading about from HAMs of all ages.
This hobby has been built on experimenting, testing, trial and error.
There are areas of the hobby to fit everyone's interests.
Expanding the horizons of the hobby is needed to help promote.
I have been interested in the hobby since I was a young kid. I played with 11 meters for years and had a lot of fun. Learned some great concepts with limitations. My livelihood now is with computers. We all know the world is evolving around the computer era. Who would have thought your fridge was going to talk to you 50 years ago. Why are we not looking and accepting D-Link, Echolink, IRLP aasnd others as part of the hobby. Whom has the right to say, it is or is not radio? Just because you only work DX, does that mean your the only true Radio Operator? If you don't build / test antennas or radios does this make you a bad operator?
I admire all of those individuals that were able to get into the hobby years ago but did you ever think it was never going to change? Are these new interests not experiments ? Some of them have failed remember the Edsel... it was still a car wasn't it?
Why not ease up on some of these new people. If this is the portion of the hobby they enjoy we are just one more step closer to building a larger commuinity. So what if it is not the same part of the hobby you or I like, this does not make it a right or wrong.
I rarely use Echolink but I have it installed. Let's accept that these additions are here and there will be more in the future. Stop looking for the negative, lets figure out how we can make this more cohesive.
I agree that without our founders (older HAMS) we would not have made these technological steps however, these people are going to die off and if we deny that we need to think again. No one has said OUT with the OLD and IN with the NEW, we are growing and some people are not interested in the same objectives that many have been in the past. Unfortunately, within the computer industry we will have ELMERS and yes they will be younger that us.
Here is a personal example. I like to play with antennas, experiment, trial and more than I want errors. I love working the air waves the old fashioned radio way and some computer related as well. I love CW best. I am only 42, live and work in the computer era but that does not entice me to only go that route in the hobby.
My son, almost 19, is not interested in any of the things I do. DX'ing is fun to listen to but he has no ambition to do this or build antennas. He will become a HAM for the computer related protocols. He does not want to talk on the mic nor hunt countries. He will have to write an exam to get there and will still be a HAM (Radio Operator) just like you and I. If he only uses computers in this hobby that is a choice by no one but himself. I will still see him as a HAM and he will still have a callsign.
I realize some of you had to work very hard to become a HAM years ago but you and I know the hobby had to start changing. Just in case you never noticed, the hobby was getting smaller. If these new experiments are what it takes to grow then let's accept it. No one is forcing you to use it.
I have never wanted to work on radio's or build them but this does not mean I am not a radio operator. This is an experimenting hobby remember, HOBBY... some people fly planes, some people fly helicopters and some jets they are all still pilots.
Remember there is no right or wrong in the hobby there is changing interests. Do you see the same posts about APRS probably not because they are not talking or in a CHAT. These are experiments that are helping the hobby grow.
I have noticed a lot of prejudice in this hobby. As a kid and even today, many HAMs turn up their noses at CB'ers. (Although there is a lot more foul mouths and silly activites going on) they still operate a radio. I did it for years and loved it and now I am one of you, imagine that.
With computers and technology we are venturing into different avenues, prepare for more changes because they will be here soon enough. Look at where the CW is headed, can you just ignore what is happening? Just accept it for what its worth. If you don't agree with it, don't use it but why belittle it?
Some of you may or may not agree with what I had to say but these are my opinions and I am entitled to them as well as you are. Not every conversation needs to discuss radio or antennas.
These are my thoughts not yours!
Have a fantstic week all!
VA6MJT@rac.ca
Mike
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KD5ING on September 30, 2003
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Here is a copy of a press release from the National Hurricane Center just released yesterday. Notice the use of Echolink. Echolink has proven reliable enough for their use.
Tim, KD5ING
-----------------
HURRICANE JUAN 2003
PRESS RELEASE : Issued Tuesday, September 30th, 2003
Amateur Radio Operations at The National Hurricane Center during
Hurricane JUAN
Contact: John McHugh, KU4GY@ARRL.net
WX4NHC, the Amateur Radio station at the National Hurricane Center in
Miami, Florida,
established communications with Amateur Radio Operators in Nova Scotia
during Hurricane Juan's land fall.
Hurricane Juan, a Cat-1 hurricane, with sustained winds of 80 MPH with
higher gust was one of the strongest hurricanes to make direct landfall
on Nova Scotia since Hurricane Hortense in 1996. Landfall was early
Monday morning just east of Halifax, near St. Margaret's bay during high
tide. Hundreds of people are reported to have been evacuated from low
lying areas as a precaution. Halifax Airport recorded a wind gust of 143
Km/H (88MPH).
Communications were establish using EchoLink, a new high-tech hybrid
mode of Amateur Radio
Communications that combines the use of VHF Ham Radio with the
Internet. This allows WX4NHC to connect to local repeaters in the
affected area and talk with hams using their VHF/UHF radios to that
local repeaters. They can use EchoLink to transmit and receive voice and
data and even participate in a Conference Room, similar to a Chat Room,
with hundreds of other Hams.
"Surface Reports" were received from Nelson Burgoyne VE1GO, who lives in
near Sydney Harbor, about 200 feet from the shoreline. Bob Roper
VE1CRR, who lives on Cape Breton Island reported that the Halifax area
lost many large trees, downed power lines and roof damage. Bob has
heard of at least two fatalities caused by Hurricane Juan, one being a
Paramedic who was killed by a fallen tree during the storm. Jim Milner,
VE1VIA in Amherst, north of Halifax, reported at about 10pm that in
Halifax the power was out and the 2 main bridges were now closed.
The WX4NHC Group continues to expanded its efforts to increase the
quantity and quality of
surface reports to include many different modes of reception and groups
of people;
including HF, VHF/UHF IRLP & Echolink, VHF & HF APRS, CWOP NOAA Program,
CARMEN Program and ON-NHC Weather Observers Network.
(see our web site for more information on these programs):
http://www.wx4nhc.org
WX4NHC, a group of volunteer Amateur Radio operators, are very proud to
have maintained
an active Amateur Radio Station at the National Hurricane Center for the
past 23 years.
John
--
John Mc Hugh, KU4GY
Coordinator for Amateur Radio
National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC
Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by VE3WGO on October 1, 2003
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There are many ways that the general public uses radio for communications. They listen to AM, FM, and TV signal broadcasts. They chat on CB radio. They use the internet for text, graphics, and Voice Over IP telephone communications. But none of these activities are Ham Radio.
If we don't use a radio under our own control, on a Ham Radio frequency, then where's the "Ham Radio" content in it?
I think the definition of Ham Radio is, and will always remain to be, the hobby that involves a licenced operator directly controlling and using a radio transceiver (or TR) to communicate with other Ham Radio operators.
There are many much better ways than Ham Radio, to communicate these days in non-emergency situations, with anyone anywhere on the globe. Telephone works great, virtually worldwide for pennies a minute, and with 59 signals. Internet lets chat rooms get into roundtable discussions with perfect copy. Email works as good as any packet radio or text mode, with automatic and perfect error correction. So what is the use of Ham Radio anyway, in non-emergency situations? Well, I believe that is it strictly for fun and skill-building challenge.
We like the challenge of chasing DX by ham radio. We practice for emergencies. We chase technical achievement records. We arrange skeds by email or telephone, but we bag the actual contact by ham radio. We use CW even though it is tough to learn, and tough to receive - but it's a challenge. We like the challenge. We could easily work DXCC in one day by telephone or internet, but Ham Radio lets us do it the hard way and be proud of the achievement. That's why we use ham radio - the challenge of it all. We put a station together, and it actually works! We can use it to reach some goal - UHF DX, QSL card wallpaper, DXCC, VUCC, QRP records, or ragchewing with the gang from Down East.
If it's going to get too easy, I think we'll lose interest in Ham Radio.
When I, as a ham, use an internet chat room to communicate with somebody in, say, Tokyo, I'm obviously not using ham radio. My chat message info is probably travelling through wires, fiber optics, and even microwave radio links, (perhaps even satellites) but there is no ham radio content at all.
When I, as a ham, use my cell phone, I am using but not controlling, my handheld cellphone radio transceiver in a commercial band, so there is no ham radio content there either.
Same goes for when I use my PC-phone to chat with somebody in Perth, Australia, - it's DX, but it certainly isn't ham radio!
So, IMHO, to distiguish all of the various modes of communication that are available to the general public, including wired, fiber, and wireless, from HAM radio, the difference is that when we are practicing the art of Ham Radio, we are controlling and using a Ham Radio transceiver on a Ham Radio frequency, to communicate with another licenced Ham. If we are not directly controlling and using a ham radio transceiver, then there is no Ham Radio content for the user, and you won't need a Ham licence to do what you are doing...
If the future means that Hams will be using computers to communicate with each other via the internet, then I hope they will realize that they aren't using Ham Radio any more than when they use a Yahoo chatroom.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by WA4DOU on October 1, 2003
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VE3WGO has done an excellent job of explaining the difference between amateur radio and "just communicating". This ought to be abundantly clear to everyone, but a rather large faction just don't seem to get it. That faction is the same one that keeps trying to redefine and change the essential character and nature of amateur radio and its no wonder that this stirs up some of us and provokes sometimes unkind words.
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by K1UHF on October 2, 2003
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Posting a message here or reading these messages is only contributing to the demise of ham radio.
I am certain that email, chat groups and browsing the web are the biggest threat to our hobby.
Just imagine how active the bands would be if hams stopped sending emails about ham radio and called CQ instead.
At least EchoLink connects hams together with radios.
Email does not involve hams talking on radios.
See you on the air!
Del, K1UHF
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by KB5DOH on October 3, 2003
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What I like to do is experiment with what is already there to see if I can make it better, I look at something and say to myself why won't this work and I look at the theory and find well it should work so then I try it. Sometimes I scare my self lol antenna design is not my bag but was to use the antenna other than the way most do is one of the areas I like, my next experiment is do to come soon I hope and I will let you know how it went/if it worked. lol
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by KC0KCQ on October 9, 2003
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Congratulations! Your comment has been the most ignorant so far in this thread.
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RE: Future of Ham RADIO
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by N5VU on December 27, 2003
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Echo link is Internet. Not radio. True, there is possibly a radio involved somewhere in the link between you and the other person. Amateur radio (Ham) is the pitting of "Your" radio station and skills against mother nature. The echolink "people" (not really hams) match their wits against marketing executives, least cost route programing for the PBX's, CO's etc and the "all circuits are busy now" voice. Nope, I like making it happen from my desk top. I'm in charge (and responsible) for my signal purity! It's my skill that allows me to make contact with the other station down the street or around the globe. Maybe the echolink folks need a license of their own, hmmmmmm,...let's see, oh yes, I've got it! PCCB. You simply print your own certificate, give yourseldf a callsign (PigPen, WhickerBill, Hoochy Mama etc.) log on and let it rip. Got your monitor on, click it back.
Internet is useful, ham radio is a necessity.
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Oh My God! A LEGITIMATE USE for ECHOLINK!!!
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by KC9DML on March 31, 2004
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Ok, I hate getting embroiled in debates like this, but after reading this whole thread I felt like I could add something useful. First, though, the not-so-useful stuff: my background and opinions. The practical application for echolink is way at the bottom; this got longer than I meant it to.
I got into Ham radio around a year ago, primarily for the purpose of being able to communicate with the NWS WCM during severe weather, as I'm one of the more experienced local storm spotters, and I've had cell phone issues in the past while trying to make reports. I'll admit I didn't have much "hobby" interest in it... I work as an airline pilot, and talk to people all over the country using voice and data every day at work, so it's not something I thought I'd enjoy spending my free time doing as well. I've actually made some good friends over the local repeaters and 2m simplex though, and while I guess this isn't "real radio" to you HF CW types, guess what? I don't care! Yes, that's right, your opinion is meaningless to me, as I'm an adult who is qualified to make his own decisions about what he enjoys. I like talking to new people, and 2m is a good way to do that. So is echolink! Is is radio? Well, 2 computers hooked up obviously isn't, but again, who cares? More importantly, WHY DO YOU CARE? I mean, if people are having fun doing what they like to do, where's the harm? Oh, I know, some of you are offended that these guys aren't "real" hams because they use a different system to talk to people than you do. Well, at work, I have friends who hold general aviation pilots in disdain because these guys aren't burning jet fuel. That's crap. So is this irrational hate of echolink. They're all different sides of the same coin. Sure, most echolink hook-ups are a combination of wires and radio. EVERY ham contact is that! Don't you have a wire that runs from your radio out to your antenna? Geez, it's not like you guys are employing telepathy or something, talking about "pure" comm.
There's a reason this is called AMATEUR radio. It's a HOBBY. Saying some facet of it is useless just because it doesn't always perform reliably in an emergency is kind of silly. I mean, I once used a pair of touring skis to get myself into town after a heavy snowfall in CO. Without those skis, I would have been snowbound for probably a couple days. Are skis "emergency equipment?" Of course not... I keep them around for fun. They just happened to work out in this case. It's a fair comparison to the way most hams use radio I think.
I wouldn't have bothered to post ANY of that, if it weren't for one comment I've seen several of you make: "some people just don't get it". This is disturbing because it's the statement that's used to support every form of discrimination there has ever been. Picture two redneck southern boys circa 1950: "Can ya believe some folks's startin' to say blacks deserve the same rights's US? Some people just don't git it!" Or, two WASP's from the northeast a hundred years ago: "Did you hear that Irish family moved in down the street? And no one seems to care! There goes the neighborhood... those people are drunks, and CATHOLIC to boot! Some people just don't get it!" Well, this is no good and HAS to stop. The sooner you realize that everyone has their opinions, and there's really no way to tell if anyone is more or less correct than you in the great scheme of things, the better you'll be. I mean, I don't care if you want to operate CW or run naked around a bonfire worshipping oak tassels. More power to you. I won't say a word. All I expect is for you to extend me same courtesy with regards to my operating practices and my life. You guys need to get over yourselves... you're using technology that in most cases hasn't been modified in 50-75 years. And that's great, there's nothing at all wrong with that, but you can quit acting like you're on the cutting edge! ;-)
NOW then, as far as a use for echolink. I installed it the other day, after talking with a station from Australia over the local repeater here in Chicago. (Yeah I know, not real DX, but I still don't care, it was fun to talk to him. It would have been just as fun over the phone, and if there was a free way to call people on the other side of the world that you knew were interested in having a conversation with you, that'd be fun too!) Anyway, after playing with it a little I was telling my buddy about what it can do. My friend is not a ham, and gave me some good-natured ribbing about sticking a big antenna on the roof of my car, but he perked right up when I told him about echolink's ability to link repeaters, computer users and individual simplex stations. See, he's involved with the local Civil Air Patrol, and apparently they use 2m repeaters (not on ham bands) for most of their search and rescue and drug interdiction work. Their aircraft have 2m radios installed, and the normal procedure is for the pilot to call in his spots over the repeater to a control operator in the local HQ using an HT. He then relays messages over landline data to the central HQ in NE or OK or something, who then has to re-distribute the info via 2m repeater comm to the local stations. I don't have to tell you how much echolink would streamline all this. We're looking into setting it up now. So see, all you naysayers? There ARE practical applications. And isn't that what you always tout about ham radio, that hams pioneer new technology that eventually finds it's way into the real world??
Anyway, this is a rant, I know. Don't take it personally. I'm sure if I ever met you guys we'd get along ok. It's just that, if there's one thing in the world I really can't stand, it's someone elses intolerance! Exercise your freedom to choose what you do, and for God's sake STOP BELITTLING OTHERS FOR DOING THE SAME!
See ya,
Joe
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Future of Ham RADIO
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by W4VD on April 9, 2005
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I agree with many of the comments on EchoLink. I operate a simplex node and I find it extremely useful for general communications, like calling back home from other cities via Echolink nodes is a lot of fun and there are no band conditions to worry about, no QRM, like a land line almost. I do feel if it is PC to PC it is not ham radio.
I have friends on Echolink who have their own links and we communicate via radio on both ends and tie communities together and have made some great friends we might have otherwise never known. Now this IS radio, just another mode, we're just using the web to relay the signals.
EchoLink is a tiny part of a large hobby, and anyone who operates it exclusively (unless you are in a hosptital, or without antennas temporarily) you are not really hamming, not even close to really hamming. PC to PC Echolink is nothing but Yahoo chat with callsigns, let's not kid ourselves, as far as DX'ing on Echolink, that is like hunting deer with a RPG, there is no challenge, it is not the same as RF DX and never will be.
After going thru the ranks in the "olden days of 20wpm" I just cannot see anyone having trouble learning 5wpm and getting on HF. That is not even copying code, that is simple character recognition, and anyone with normal hearing and a TINY bit of drive has no excuse not to upgrade and see what real hamming is all about.
As far as the future of ham radio, Echolink will never be the #1 mode of operation for the masses, it will be for a small percentage, and I really feel sorry for them and all they are missing out on.
73
Bill W4VD
Node #44449
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