Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
Alan Applegate (K0BG)
on
November 17, 2003
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Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations:
Although this article is aimed at owners of Icom transceivers, there may be other transceivers, which exhibit the same shortcomings. Since my experiences are limited to just a couple of others, any determination pro or con is left up to the reader. More specifically, if you power any ancillary devices via the accessory port on your transceiver, then I suggest you read on.
Any of you who have been following my mobile radio articles know my basic story. Those who haven't perhaps need a refresher. So I don't bore everyone, here's the basic setup. I have a 3 1/2 year old Icom IC-706MkIIG, and a recent SG235 autocoupler, and SG500 power amplifier. These drive a homebrew 13.5-foot long antenna resonant on 20 meters, which incidentally is where 80% of my mobile QSOs take place.
The SG235 is more or less automatic in operation and has the benefit of a pass-thru PTT to the SG500 amp. The SC500 amp even supports auto-band selection. To use a much over-trite term, it is plug-and-play. -- At least as P&P as you can get. The drawback is, all of this PTT and band selection takes a few moments to occur. I like VOX, especially mobile as it's less distracting, and in the case of Santa Fe, NM, the only legal means of in-motion operation. So I set out to provide a solution to the inherent delay.
Some years back, I remember seeing an article by Nigel Thompson, KG7SG, which described a remotely controlled antenna switch (QST, April 1993, page 32). This comparator-based device used an open collector design which was just the ticket needed to convert the band selection output of an Icom transceiver to the appropriate signaling to the SG500. I purchased the necessary board from FAR Circuits (www.farcircuits.com), and the components from Digi-Key (www.digi-key.com). I stuffed the board, put it into a good-quality aluminum box, made the cabling, used the accessory plug as supplied by Icom, and presto the whole mess worked like a charm. Almost! Here's the rest of the story.
Everything worked the first time just as I was sure it would; when I changed bands on the Icom, the SG500 amp followed perfectly. The PTT delay from the SG235 autocoupler to the SG500 was still there obviously (<.4 seconds), but the band selection delay (about 1 second) was gone. Eureka! I was so delighted! -- Until I tried transmitting with the amp on.
The comparator circuit was trying to select more than one band causing the band selection relays in the SG500 to chatter. My gosh, what could be causing that (?) I proposed to myself. Gee, it worked on my IC-746 Pro, it worked on the bench, so what was up now? After calming down for a few moments, I realized something was causing the band selection voltage or the supply voltage from the Icom to change.
Digressing for a moment, the SG500 does draw a lot of current. -- Forty to 60 amps average, and as much as 100 or more on peaks. But what the hey, I had two batteries, a 140 amp alternator, and I never saw the voltage at the amp drop to less than 12 volts unless I had the air conditioning, all of the lights, and the rear defroster on at the same time! Something was amiss.
Since I could operate the PTT from the trunk (the IC-706 is mounted underneath the package shelf in my 1998 Mercury Mystique and has a mic input on the rear apron), I started checking the various voltages from the Icom's accessory socket while transmitting an RTTY carrier into a dummy load. Just for the record, I was powering the SG235 autocoupler from this socket. Icom states you can draw up to one amp, and the SC235 is rated at 900 mils maximum, so I thought I would be okay. It wasn't!
The input voltage at idle with out any automobile accessories operating is about 14 volts. The measured voltage at the accessory jack was 13.4 with out any load connected. When the SG235 was connected this dropped to 12.8 volts, and if it was in operation, 11.9 volts, or just a few tenths above its minimum. Add in the draw of the Icom's output stage running 40 watts, the SG500 amp running 500 PEP out, the voltage at the accessory port dropped to 10.4 volts (!), albeit the input voltage was 12.4 or so.
And the band select voltage was even worse. (The band select voltage varies between 0 and 8 volts depending on the band selected and is referenced to a regulated 8 volts, which the aforementioned comparator uses to make the correct band selection.) On 20 meters for example, the band select voltage should be about 4 to 4.5 volts. At load, this dropped to less than 3.5, which caused the 18/21 band output to activate on voice peaks. The effect was worse on the 24/28 output which dropped to less than 2 volts which activated the 10 meter band select and caused the SG500 to drop off line to protect itself. Even if I powered the comparator from a stiff 13.6 volt bench supply, the band select voltage still caused a selection error. Obviously, this was not, and is not, acceptable.
Incidentally, the IC-706 is shipped with an accessory plug which is pre-wired as the individual pins are crimped and can not be easily replaced (I just spliced into this existing wiring). The wiring appears to be SWG 30, which relates to AWG 28. In any case, the maximum draw according to Icom is 1 amp, which seems high for size 28 awg wire.
I did try to use the AH-4 accessory Molex connector to provide the nominal 13.6 volts supply, but alas it too suffers from the same fate. The reason isn't as simple as it sounds, but relates to the fact the Icom uses a transistor to switch these ports to the incoming supply, what ever that may be. For the record, I did measure the voltage for the nearly identical port(s) of my IC-746 and the drop is almost the same.
In my case, this negates the use of the accessory band switching scheme I was hoping to use. In its place, I decided to use manual switching, and because most of my operating is 20 with an occasional foray to 17 and 15 (which uses the same band pass filter on the SG500), the personal impact is negligible. But this leaves an open question to any one using the accessory sockets for any purpose.
For example, I use one of the ports on my IC-746 to power a remote-controlled antenna relay, which draws just 90 mils. Without activation the 13.6 nominal voltage at the Accessory Port 2, pin 7 (or Accessory Port 1 pin 1) is 13.4 volts and with the relay activated it is 13.1 volts, and this with the base-station power supply! Those folks using sound-card applications, or other ancillary equipment, which uses power supplied by any of these ports, may have similar problems.
In short, if you power any external device via an Icom accessory port (perhaps many other transceiver accessory ports), and you experience problems, it just may be the voltage drop caused by the internal switching architecture. In a word or two, Caveat Emptor!
Alan Applegate, KØBG
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Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by AA4PB on November 17, 2003
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Good information, Alan. I will have to watch that closely.
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Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by WD4AWO on November 17, 2003
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Try upgrading the power supply cable to 6 gauge minimum.
Icom power supply connectors can be found new on Ebay or from Digi-Key (they are the same as the Kenwood HF power supply connectors for the 120,130,140, etc. HF radios) and will easily accept 6 gauge wire.
Also, use as short of run of wire as possible.
Had the same problem with voltage dropping at the rear panel accessory jacks until I used 6 gauge wires for the power supply cable.
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Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by KB2CPW on November 18, 2003
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How about using that acc power port to trigger a high current relay that carries the "full monte" from your battery which will then carry the proper current to your devices, it will put much less strain on the acc power jack in your icom.. Richy
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by N6AJR on November 18, 2003
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I use replacement battery cables available at auto parts stores, they carry 400 amps to the starter and work fine on all ham stuff so far.
I bolt the neg to the floorboards up above the carpet, which grounds the battery to the chassis and the equipment to the chassis. use a second bolt to hold the radio wires.
use the pos with a "stereo" type fuse holder that bolt on the pos battery and then hook the pos ccable there. the stereo fuses are a couple inches long and 1/2 in in dia and have replaceable fuses.
the cables I get are 6 or 7 feet long, with the flat ends with hole in it, for under $ 10 bucks.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by AA4PB on November 18, 2003
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Alan, I've been thinking a bit more about the band selection problem. In the older Icom rigs the band selection voltage was determined by a resistive divider that was powered from a regulated 8-volts. Do they not do that in the IC-706? If they do then one would think that the band select voltage would remain stable until the input voltage dropped down to about 10 volts, below the differential needed to keep the 8-volt regulator working and that it would be unrelated to the drop in the switch circuit that is causing low voltage at the ACC connector.
That regulated 8-volt reference is also available at the ACC2 connector (pin-1) so that the receiving comparator in the SGC can use the very same reference voltage.
I wonder if part of the problem could be voltage drop in the ground connection due to other loads since the band selection is referenced to ground. Does the SGC give you a separate band selection ground connection that you might be able to take separately back to the ACC2 ground connection (pin-2) on the Icom? If so, that would keep other load currents from flowing in the band selection ground.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by K0BG on November 18, 2003
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Actually, Bob, the rig is fed with #6 awg. The run from the rig to this fed and second battery is just 18". The problem is not the fed to the rig, it is internal. If you look at the schematic you'll see the problem easily. Further, the wire used by Icom is will not handle 1 amp although they advertize that it does. As I said, caveat emptor.
Alan, KØBG
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by K5LXP on November 18, 2003
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I discovered with my own Icom 706 that the 4A fuse inside the radio won't protect the antenna tuner connector 12V pin. I was using that 12V source to power a screwdriver antenna control and all was well until the line to the antenna was damaged and shorted to ground. The next time I tried to move the antenna I was greeted by that lovely smell some of us know all too well. There is a way too small trace supplying that power pin, necessitating a jumper wire repair on the PCB. I now protect the radio with a 1.5A fuse external to the radio to keep this from happening again. In short, careful what you try to pull out of that tuner power pin, as a fault can damage the radio.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
k5lxp@arrl.net
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by AA4PB on November 18, 2003
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Alan, looking at the SG500 manual I see that it requires a ground on one pin in order to select the appropriate band pass filter. I assume then that you have provided some sort of comparator circuit to convert the band selection voltage to the appropriate filter selection control. Make sure that the reference for the comparator is the +8V from the ACC connector so that your comparator is using the same regulated voltage as the one in the Icom. I would think that would eliminate the band selection problem even though the 12-volt power voltage out of the ACC connector is changing due to the internal resistance of the Icom switching circuit. You may also need to isolate the comparator ground circuit from the other power grounds (taking it back to the ACC connector) in order to prevent amp load currents from flowing in the band reference ground.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by K0BG on November 18, 2003
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To Bob and Mark.
Mark, you're correct about the tuner jack, and I meant to mention it. Thanks for bringing that item to attention. BTW, it also uses transistor switching and has the same voltage drop problem as the port on the accessory jack.
Bob, the comparator design is straight from the handbook and sinks to ground. And Yes, I did use the voltages out of the 706. The comparator probably wouldn't care too much if the voltage stayed above 11 volts. It doesn't because of the drop thru the 706's switching circuitry. The 8V regulated supply was okay. The surprise came when I discovered that the band select voltage is unstable as well. I suspect everything would be okay if a base station supply was used, but in my case, 100 amps was just too much.
Alan, KØBG
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by WD4AWO on November 18, 2003
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Alan,
Which acc socket pin are you using on the 706?
Pin # 1 is regulated at 8 VDC and will accomodate less than 10 mA.
Pin 8 is regulated at 13.8 VDC and will accomodate a max of 1 amp.
Voltage regulation for the acc socket and the AH-4 molex connector jacks is supplied from the VCC and is regulated at 1 amp max.
I suspect either a problem in your particular radio or in the vehicle itself, such as, a weak regulator or bad diode pack in the alternator or even a bad ground system which can cause you a lot of problems.
As long as you are not drawing more than 1 amp from pin # 8 or 10 mA from pin # 1 on the acces socket you should not be experiencing a problem unless the radio itself has a defect.
Since you mentioned that everything was OK on the bench you may want to inspect the vehicle and the installation, particularly the ground.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by AA4PB on November 18, 2003
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Pin 8 is regulated at 13.8 VDC and will accomodate a max of 1 amp
----------------
No, Pin 8 is not regulated at 13.8 VDC *unless* your power supply is regulated at 13.8 VDC. Pin 8 is whatever voltage is applied to the radio's power input so in a mobile environment it will vary quite a bit. As Alan points out, there is also a solid state switch in the line and that drops additional voltage, depending on the load on Pin 8. Therein lies the problem that Alan has identified.
Now if you use pin 8 to power a device that has its own internal voltage regulator with sufficient range then it is not a problem. For example, I use pin 8 to power a tuner interface that has its own internal 5 volt regulator and have not experienced a problem. I also use pin 8 in a fixed station to power a sound card interface that contains its own 9 volt regulator and that has not been a problem.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by K0BG on November 19, 2003
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Mr. Tom Lish; apparently you have missed the point. And excuse me for being a little bit egotistical; very few folks have as much experience operating mobile as I have. The problem, as I pointed out, IS NOT the supply to the IC706. It is in fact, the IC706 itself!
Operating the 706 from a base station supply is one thing, operating it from a not-so-stiff mobile supply is another. For the record (in case you have not be reading my series of articles on mobile operation, your comments to the contrary on line notwithstanding) the set up is two 400 Amp Hour batteries, and a 140 amp alternator with all wiring done with number 6 awg, which is adequate for 100+ amps ICAS.
In all due respect, reread the article.
Alan, KØBG
PS: Maybe I should use a fan dipole?
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by N6AJR on November 20, 2003
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My appoligies if I mis-interpreted the problem.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by N6AJR on November 20, 2003
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My appoligies if I mis-interpreted the problem.
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RE: Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by WD4AWO on November 20, 2003
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K0BG is very egotistical.
The problem is his own doing.
The Icom 706 series has only one issue and it is not related to his self-imposed problem.
His claims of being an experienced mobile operator is very debatable among those who really are.
He and AA4PB are obviously of the opinion that they are experts when it comes to Icom.
They are sadly mistaken and prove it with their flaming of those who only wish to help them arrive at a solution to K0Bg's problem.
Maybe they should see if Icom will give them gainful employment since they are more knowledgeable than the RF engineers who design the equipment.
You 2 guys are the very reason most people have no desire to reply to posts on eham rgarding technical problems.
I do very well designing and marketing accessories for Icom equipment and realise that you are wannabees with serious inferiority complexes.
Therefore,
FLAME ON EXPERTS
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Try a Battery Booster
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by AE2F on November 22, 2003
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Voltage drop is a serious problem in any mobile installation. Most equipment really needs the full 13.8 volts to operate. A simple solution is offered by w4rry. If you add his booster between the batteries and your IC706 I suspect that your problems will disappear and you could use you automatic band selector.
http://members.cox.net/w4rry/index.html
Note: I have not used this product myself and I have not affiliation with w4rry.
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Icom Accessory Port Power Considerations
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by WA1RNE on November 22, 2003
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KB2CPW has the right idea.
If you want to eliminate any added switching delays from an automotive style or other heavy duty 12vdc relay, add a cheap power MOSFET inside the switching box. The accessory port drives the gate to turn it on/off. (add the normal gate-source termination resistor, bypass cap, etc., etc.)
The line running from the vehicle's electrical system to the MOSFET switch should be fused seperately should a short occur in this feed or down stream from the MOSFET and to the antenna switching box.
You might want to measure the current being drawn by the switching scheme and add 50% to come up with a fast blow AGC type fuse rating.
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