Observations From a Newbie...
from
Tracy Valleau, KG6TKV
on
January 7, 2004
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Boy, there are a lot of folks set in their ways here...
Have you forgotten what keeps you young and vital, not to mention useful?
It's adapting to change.
I may be a new Ham, but I'm an older guy, and I've seen my share of disasters, large and small.
One of the things that interests me about this discussion of relevance in the modern age, be it amateur radio or CW, is that neither one of these things is the real issue.
The issues are change, and experience.
The change is that modern technology has made obsolete much of our traditional relevance: redundant repeaters, with redundant PS's; cell phones; satellites; GPS; lasers; computers; the internet; wi-fi... a lot of things have changed since Mr. Morse's heyday. Hell, a lot has changed in the last 20 years.
And in terms of day to day; in terms of level of emergency, we're a
lot less relevant than we were only 10 years ago, much less 30.
But then there's experience...
Fact is that for most of our emergency personnel, JFK's assassination is as remote as FDR's polio, or Lincoln's fateful journey to Ford's theatre: it happened before they were born.
They've never lived in a world without television; without computers. Meat comes wrapped in cellophane, with a freshness date, and only monsters actually kill animals. The government has always been "grandpa" - watching their backs, and providing their security. Their "wars" are measured in months, not years, and can be seen live-on-TV, while comfortably eating dinner, secure in their homes.
Camping is taking the SUV to Yosemite Valley. "Roughing it" is not enough hot water on tap.
And when the s__t REALLY hits the fan; when the station commander lies dead beneath a crumbled building; when all the computers quit working or the dispatcher dies; when there is no electricity and county-com is off the air; these young folks will be no where near as prepared as we older, "been there, done that" folks are.
Friends, it's NOT our radios -- it's US.
(I've got a CB alongside my rig. Those of you who just "snorted" are missing the point. It isn't about our hardware - it's about public service. If some fisherman in the bay is sinking, and only can afford a CB - I'll hear him. You won't.)
So, if you're bragging about how long you've been a Ham; how tough your test was; or why CW is, or isn't, important -- well, you're also the kind of person who owns a Jimmy and disdains Fords; owns a PC and thinks Mac users are weenies; who drinks Coors and thinks Heinekins is for girls.
That kind of childish attitude sells you short. You DO have a valuable contribution to make... and it's NOT your rig... ...it's you.
Accept the change: it will make you younger, and it will help you grow up.
Count your blessings that modern technology leaves you at home to care for your loved ones when a modest disaster hits.
But also have the courage and maturity to share your experience and expertise when it really IS needed.
Look up "amateur" - it means someone who does something for the love of it. A "professional" does it for money. There's no way to tell which one is more skilled; more versatile; more experienced.
This is a hobby, friends, not a religion. Things change.
Clinging to the past will only make you bitter;
forgetting the past makes you foolish.
While letting go, remember. Move forward.
73
Tracy
KG6TKV
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by OLDFART13 on December 16, 2003
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“Boy, there are a lot of folks set in their ways here... “
Correct: The Anti-CW crowd wants to easier exams, and elimination of the easy 5wpm exam.
The pro CW crowd wants to maintain the high standards of ham radio.
“Have you forgotten what keeps you young and vital, not to mention useful? It's adapting to change.”
Wrong! When did you dream up this information?
“I may be a new Ham, but I'm an older guy, and I've seen my share of disasters, large and small.”
Nothing wrong with being a new ham, and being an older guy doesn’t necessarily mean much.
“One of the things that interests me about this discussion of relevance in the modern age, be it amateur radio or CW, is that neither one of these things is the real issue.”
I think you are correct with this point. Most people who have been in ham radio awhile or who support keeping the CW exam are the ones who are against making the exams any easier then they already are. Groups like NCVEC, W5YI, and NCI make propositions to make it easier to get a license with more operating privileges. Theses groups never propose to eliminate CW examinations but make the written test harder to memorize the answer. They only propose easier and less technical exams.
“The issues are change, and experience.”
Groups like NCVEC and W5YI stand to make more money with the elimination of the CW exam. The only change they recommend is easier exams.
“The change is that modern technology has made obsolete much of our traditional relevance: redundant repeaters, with redundant PS's; cell phones; satellites; GPS; lasers; computers; the internet; wi-fi... a lot of things have changed since Mr. Morse's heyday. Hell, a lot has changed in the last 20 years.”
Ham radio is part hobby and part service. We do provide a valuable service and that is why we need to keep the standards high.
“And in terms of day to day; in terms of level of emergency, we're a lot less relevant than we were only 10 years ago, much less 30. “
You may have noticed the exams have gotten a lot easier during this same time period.
“But then there's experience... “
A great teacher when used in conjunction with formal training.
“Fact is that for most of our emergency personnel, JFK's assassination is as remote as FDR's polio, or Lincoln's fateful journey to Ford's theatre: it happened before they were born.”
It’s taught in the history books, the lessons are learned.
“They've never lived in a world without television; without computers. Meat comes wrapped in cellophane, with a freshness date, and only monsters actually kill animals. The government has always been "grandpa" - watching their backs, and providing their security. Their "wars" are measured in months, not years, and can be seen live-on-TV, while comfortably eating dinner, secure in their homes.”
It’s called welfare and liberalism when the government does everything for you. As for Wars being measured in months or years is irrelevant if you or you loved one or friends die from it.
“Camping is taking the SUV to Yosemite Valley. "Roughing it" is not enough hot water on tap.”
There are different levels of camping and so called roughing etc.
“And when the s__t REALLY hits the fan; when the station commander lies dead beneath a crumbled building; when all the computers quit working or the dispatcher dies; when there is no electricity and county-com is off the air; these young folks will be no where near as prepared as we older, "been there, done that" folks are. “
Many of these young hams will be prepared. A lot of young hams are learning the material for the exams and not just memorizing the answers. And when the $#%T REALLY hits the fan they will be glad that they LEARNED the basics including CW at a mere 5wpm.
“Friends, it's NOT our radios -- it's US.”
But, like a craftsman we are often only as good as our tools and our ability to use the right tools properly.
“(I've got a CB alongside my rig. Those of you who just "snorted" are missing the point. It isn't about our hardware - it's about public service. If some fisherman in the bay is sinking, and only can afford a CB - I'll hear him. You won't.) “
Nothing wrong with having a CB. It is another tool that when used properly can be an asset.
“So, if you're bragging about how long you've been a Ham; how tough your test was; or why CW is, or isn't, important -- well, you're also the kind of person who owns a Jimmy and disdains Fords; owns a PC and thinks Mac users are weenies; who drinks Coors and thinks Heinekins is for girls.”
FWIW: I drink Coors lite and drive a Ford. You can guess the rest.
“That kind of childish attitude sells you short. You DO have a valuable contribution to make... and it's NOT your rig... ...it's you.”
Because I have been a ham for awhile, I think CW is important, I had a hard exam, I drive a Ford, and I drink Coors lite that means I’m Childish? I have my opinions and others have there’s. I don’t think that makes me childish. I think I do have a contribution to make, it’s my experience, abilities and my gear.
“Accept the change: it will make you younger, and it will help you grow up.”
I won’t accept change that is not good. I will never be younger, the best I can do is to try and slow the aging process. Wait a minute, are you saying that Change will make me younger and I will grow up? I guess that means you are calling me and Old Baby? Hihi.
“Count your blessings that modern technology leaves you at home to care for your loved ones when a modest disaster hits.”
Sometimes, but others you have to be able to set up a portable station somewhere and run off of batteries and solar panels for a while. That is what we practice at field day.
“But also have the courage and maturity to share your experience and expertise when it really IS needed.”
I think that most hams are more than willing to share their experiences and help new hams out. But some (not all) hams don’t want our help and moan for us to get out of the way so that they can “move ahead into the future.” I have been called Old Fart so many times I decided to make it my alias on this site.
“Look up "amateur" - it means someone who does something for the love of it. A "professional" does it for money. There's no way to tell which one is more skilled; more versatile; more experienced. “
Agreed.
“This is a hobby, friends, not a religion. Things change.”
Things do change, unfortunately not always for the better.
“Clinging to the past will only make you bitter;
forgetting the past makes you foolish.
While letting go, remember. Move forward. “
Agreed, we must let go of making these exams so easy and move forward with our technical hobby.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KAPV9947 on January 7, 2004
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Tracy I've read your post and I must agree with you 100 percent. I'm new to eHam but I have been reading it for a good while and I intend to learn every thing I can and I want to learn CW because I feel it's still a important part of radio and I want to communicate with as many people in as many ways that I am able to learn and put to use. No matter how much in fighting I hear and read about I will keep on and forward if some station has a problem with me. I still remember how to change frequency or turn it OFF.. TO A BETTER NEW YEAR TO ALL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by W8JI on January 7, 2004
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Just what we needed. Another anti-code anti-technical article from someone who wants to change the hobby and criticize those who like radio the way it is.
No one is forcing anyone to be a Ham. If they don't like people who enjoy technical skills or radio, they can hang around with computer geeks or CBers. It's a big world.
Why should I give up something I earned just so some person can be a communicator? I already gave up 27MHz. Isn't that enough?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2WEC on January 7, 2004
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It really is too bad that you folks missed the point that KG6TKV is trying to make. Especially OLDFART, you who will not even post a call really missed it. You should go back and check your information you used to refute the man who made this post. As a medical professional I will tell you that change is a part of life and that is a fact. Bucking the system at every turn will only serve to elevate your blood pressure and creat gastric ulcers. The fact is very simple the not necessarily older but more experienced Hams will have the basic know how to put "some kind of station" on the air when the time comes. As Hams we have alot to contribute. It is up to those of us who possess the knowlege to be ready to pass it along to the younger or new people. This is not about CW or not. Evev if CW is not required it can and I'm sure will be passed on to new Hams. It is a viable mode right along with the digitals. Friends it really is not about our equipment but how we deploy that equipment and us it in a time of need. Experience can make basics work wonders and keep it powered up when the electricity is down.
We need to share our knowlege with the newbies. Not formal but as we said in the Army, "Hip Pocket". All this means is when a teaching opportunity presents itself share it, don't force it. It is better learned and retained. I for one thank the person who made this post in the first place. His point is valid. It is not the class of license that makes the Ham. It is what he or she does with it. I don't think Walter Cronkite was an ignorant man and he was a NOVICE for ever. Think about it.....
Bill - N2WEC
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8YV on January 7, 2004
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What makes me "young and vital" doesn't exist!
These days, just keeping this body GOING is a task assigned to a seven-pill breakfast, pain killers and a blood glucose monitor.
I used to be young, vital, and a know-it-all. I even owned a CB radio!
You may not remember JFK's assassination, the Cold War or Vietnam, but happenings before your time still DO affect you, whether you were around, or not. Everything you touch, breathe, feel, smell, or taste has been here before you, or is here because of that which has come before. The ground on which you walk was once just so many loose atoms in space.
Not all change is good. Ignorance is bliss. You seem happy ('nuff said).
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 7, 2004
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N8YV is correct in reminding us that not all change is good. Indeed there is nothing more insidious than the propaganda (such as "Who Moved my Cheese") used to sell working people a plummeting standard of living in the name of "progress" and "inevitable change."
In ham radio, as well as in life, we need to carefully discern which changes are acceptable and good, and which ought to be rejected on their face. We are not powerless, and the "forces of change" are neither inevitable nor benevolent.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CURMUDGEON on January 7, 2004
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Another unworthy post by a "new" ham, less than 8 weeks licensed.Tell us what you think in 20-40 years. Till then your opinion carries no weight.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by W7WV on January 7, 2004
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Just a comment about your sinking fisherman. If he can afford a CB, he will also be able to afford a marine radio, which in turn will link to the coast guard. I grew up on the coast and had many boats.
I had a radio wired into my batteries but just in case they failed or the boat was in serious trouble
I carried a marine HT, in a plastic zip lock, just in case we had a problem off shore.
I found the coast guard to be great, and CBs did not work very well.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N4GI on January 7, 2004
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SUV's, JFK, cellophane wrapped meat and Heineken???
Is Ann Landers ghostwriting pointless pieces on e-ham now?
Blake N4GI
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 7, 2004
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It bothers me when I read things like; “What makes me "young and vital" doesn't exist!”………….It sounds too much like despair and surrender. (It’s also a bit alarming, seeing as the author of that statement is conspicuously younger than me!)
I am in no way trying to minimize someone else’s physical problems: I understand all too well the daily need for medication and pain killers. (two wrecked knees and a crushed disk.) My point is just this: “Young and Vital” is 5% physical and 95% mental. Regardless of your actual age, when you let the physical side defeat you, ……..you’re finished.
My lifelong interest in weather caused me to get involved with the local college’s Meteorology Department, and I have been Storm Chasing with them for almost ten years now. It’s a scientifically interesting pursuit, that also has the potential to treat you to that occasional dose of adrenalin. The fact that I don’t walk fast or bend very well hasn’t prevented me from becoming one of the lead drivers. (As well as moving steadily towards a degree in the field.)
When I first became involved with the program, I was concerned that my disabilities might be a problem…….Then I met a guy that absolutely humbled me. His name was Rich.
Rich has been profoundly afflicted with Cerebral Palsy for his entire life. He can’t walk. He can’t even speak. For everyday communication he relies on a laminated sheet of some 200 “most commonly used” words, which he points to in order to construct sentences. When I met Rich, he was 45 years old, and working on his Masters Degree. He chases with the group almost every season.
If a guy like Rich can find reasons to push forward and enjoy life, then I figure that I had better not complain about my little aches and pains. “Youth” is in the mind, and all “Bliss” is not founded in ignorance!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD4AMG on January 7, 2004
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...most folks are MORE NEGATIVE through the internet than on the radio, so take the negative comments with a grain of salt
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD4AMG on January 7, 2004
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of course you DO have to remember things like trying to listen to 3.955 and folks on 3.957 and 3.953, with " intentional interference"...( what happened to the FCC rule of " running the MINIMUM POWER necessary to maintain communication "...or is this the year to " blast away, it is ME talking, and &^%$ you " ?? NO I did not transmit once, so therefore NO need in identifying, but it was interesting listening to folks less than 2 states apart using so much wattage ( cant deny that, can you ? )...suppose you need mucho power to talk 2 miles or 2000 miles these days, and with that attitude, carry on !! It is strange how 75 meters and 11 meters are starting to sound soooo much alike !!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K0BG on January 7, 2004
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Reminds me of the line from one of Cher's songs
...and the beat goes on, traal la la la laaaa...
Alan, KØBG
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W8JI on January 7, 2004
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If I want advice about amateur radio, I get on two meters or CB and look for a medical professional. I know where the brains all gather.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W5HTW on January 7, 2004
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Makes sense to me -- if something is good, why not change it?
Fixing what ain't broke is one way of looking at it.
Ed
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by AB2PN on January 7, 2004
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Blasphemy, I say again Blasphemy.
How dare you insult my religion, give that man a taste of leather.
Why I used to walk to school in ten feet of snow barefoot uphill both ways all year long and at night no less.
We didn't have this modern new fangled toilet paper either we user corn cobss I tell ya we were men.
We made radios out of oatmeal cans and twine.
Ramble, Ramble, Ramble.......
I remember reading once that if you want to increase your intelect keep putting change in our life even if it's little change, change your drive to work, change does keep us healthy.
I've worked with a lot of people who were scared of change but the funny thing is once you get them moving and thinking again they come back to life.
The bitterness fades and the sparkle comes back into their eyes.
And to KG6TKV welcome aboard, nice to see some new blood in the hobby.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 7, 2004
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Curmudgeon said:
"...Another unworthy post by a "new" ham, less than 8 weeks licensed.Tell us what you think in 20-40 years. Till then your opinion carries no weight..."
What an attitude! If you're so arrogant to refuse to accept input from someone with less that 20yrs experience in any field, you're going to end up the loser.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE4X on January 7, 2004
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Welcome to the ranks. However, a word of advice...
Put down the keyboard and enjoy the radio and the fine folks on there. Let someone else play the role of Andy Rooney.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE4X on January 7, 2004
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Welcome to the ranks. However, a word of advice...
Put down the keyboard and enjoy the radio and the fine folks on there. Let someone else play the role of Andy Rooney.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC0ODY on January 7, 2004
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>I remember reading once that if you want to increase your intelect keep putting change in our life even if it's little change, change your drive to work, change does keep us healthy.<
That's a great attitude... exactly the formula for keeping life interesting and staying young. Once I stop learning, that's when life stops getting interesting.
Pay no mind to the troll, N3EVL, he's just posting to get a reaction... ignore him like the rest of us do.
And remember, change is inevitable (except from a vending machine)...
73 de Jackie
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 7, 2004
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N2WEC proclaimed: "Bucking the system at every turn will only serve to elevate your blood pressure and creat gastric ulcers."
What "system" are you referring to here?
OF13 made some really good points concerning some of the change agents in ham radio, namely W5YI, NCVEC, and NCI. Are these groups part of the "system" you refer to? Are you claiming, based on your medical experience, that it is unhealthy for anyone to disagree with the changes to ham radio proposed by these groups? If so, then perhaps I'll need a prescription for Zantac!
73 de Chuck NI0C
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KE6OUD on January 7, 2004
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Welcome to Amature Radio KG6TKV, good post! 73, Charlie
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WB2WIK on January 7, 2004
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I like change! It's what I get every time I break folding money. I put it in a jar, and when the jar's full, I have enough for another antenna....
Welcome to ham radio!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 7, 2004
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I feel that you make a very good point Tracy. I have to admit that I would like to learn as much as I can about this hobby as I enjoy it. I feel that alot of the negative feed from a very limited few on this site harm the hobbys moral concept some. There are some things that are just going to happen to this hobby that technology has the control over. I would imagine that as a unit the people that have tested and now have a ticket will decide what aspects of the ham "hobby" that they desire to utilize. Some will want to use 2 meter, some 75, some 40, on and on. And yes some CW and some not. Some of the people that have a ticket are retired and have an overwhelming amount of time to enjoy this hobby. Maybe even to the point that it envelopes their lives some that they feel that they have to defend its very fabric. Some are still in the work force and have children or other obligations, but still want to enjoy "the" hobby. And so it will be.
Could you imagine having a hobby such as breathing air, do we breath through our nose, or through our mouth, long breaths or short, it could get ridiculous I suppose to argue who is right, who is better. Maybe we just all breath differently. And maybe some enjoy the hobby their way and some other ways. But not unlike the air, the hobby can become poluted with filth and dirt. Using too much power and splattering the airwaves, using foul language, illegal transmissions to cause interference, racial hatred, prejudice and down right stupidity. That is the polution that affects the hobby. I have come to this site almost daily and applaude the creators and the people that contribute to it productively. It will most likely be a source of information for alot of people for some time to come. I am scheduled to take my test soon and will without a doubt obtain a license, seek to advance it as time passes and learn about the wonderful world of ham in and out. I even intend to take some summer classes where I work to learn about electrical aspects and radio waves. I would like to think that I will contribute to the hobby and try to remember that it is not "MY" air waves and just be glad that it is there to enjoy. I will try not to be polution to it by being negative, hateful, arogant, envious, mean and ugly towards others. But be what the hobby was created to do, enjoy it, help your community and promote ham radio. Those of you on the same path that I am will understand, those who are the polution of ham will read this and look at ways to flame away, and possibly make themselves feel better about who they are. Like an old discarded tire in a creek bed, poluting away, unable or unwilling to get themselves out of the rut they are in. All the time cursing their surroundings in spit of their inability to co-exist with others. Something to think about.
And to those of you elmers out their that contribute to the ham hobby, I salute you, you, not the radio, not the antenna, not the glow of the tubes are what makes this hobby great. I will try to leave it in as wonderful condition or better than it was when I got here. 73 & God Speed.
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RE: Observations From a Odlie...
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by W9WHE on January 7, 2004
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Thank god these new techs are here to save ham radio! After all, these "hero-hams" know more and can do more than the professionals that get paid to do it every day.
I know my opinion doesn't count because I've only been a ham for 28 years, don't own a CB, drive an SUV to National Parks, and my time as a flight Paramedic was done with blindfolds and earplugs. But I'm so sick and tired of this when the "station commander lies dead beneath a crumbled building...these young folks will be no where near as prepared as we older, "been there, done that" folks" mentality.
After all, the PROFESSIONALS that get paid to do this day in and day out are all young, stupid, wet behind the ears, "kids" that don't know anything about anything right?
AFTER ALL....WHAT COULD THE PROFESSIONALS KNOW COMPAIRED TO A TWO WEEK TECH WITH A CB RADIO!
Thank god these new techs are here to save us!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 7, 2004
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Not all change is good. Lowering standards is never good. Yet, the trend in ham radio over at least the past 20 years has been to lower the standards. Where does it stop? I guess it will all stop once we no longer need a license to operate on the ham bands. Then it will all be multi-band CB radio. Just use a handle and talk.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 7, 2004
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KC0ODY said:
"...Pay no mind to the troll, N3EVL, he's just posting to get a reaction... ignore him like the rest of us do..."
Yes, I know, you're right - but some statements are just so plain silly I just can't let them go by! I'd hate for some newbie to think we all shared his views!
73, Pete
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 7, 2004
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Like AB7RG said in "Strays":
"If it's not broke don't break it!"
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB7LYM on January 7, 2004
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I loved it ! Great going. Most of the time when you
see those Old Guruhs and you mention that CW is obsolete you hear, you MUST learn it. Our forefathers and their forefathers did it and so must you. Doing away with the obsolete is un-heard of etc ! Yes those Oldtimers when shuffling down the roads and see through their bi-focles a new Ham who don't like CW a leper just escaped from their tight grips. The new ones point at him and whisper... L@@K he is one of those. They like to have the power and status . It reminded me of the War. I was walking down the road. lost from my group when a lone man was standing at the site of the road dressed in a raincoat. Halt he said, can't you salute. Then he asked me...How many in your outfit are left ? Are they going South of North ? Did they have all their equipment ? How is their spirit ? You see I must know. I am their leader.
Folks take it with a grain of salt. Soon a Hamradio Licence is available at your local bank.
Who knows you might get a toster or a FREE CB
Wish you well
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KK7WN on January 7, 2004
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The number of disgraceful and disrespectful comments to this posting is appalling. There apears to be a significant amount of chronic repressed anger and or Aspergers Syndrome among the Ham population.You may not agree with the contents of a posting but rude ad hominem commentary does nothing but damage the reputation of our hobby. Bob KK7WN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K4JSR on January 7, 2004
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Once my kids got old enough not to need diapers
change stopped bothering me as much. I am coming up
on fifty years in ham radio and I have seen one or two
changes. Some good, some not so good. The only thing
that has not changed is when the power goes away it
will be the hams and other radio hobbiests that will
pull the fat out of the fire. And it will be with whatever works, phone, digital or code. If you need
help now are you willing to wait until someone with
twenty years experience comes along? If you are, I
certainly hope that you are not in pain or are
hemorhaging.
Otherwise I agree with Mr. Katz--"Change is good".
If you disagree then I have some six month old milk
in the fridge that you are more than welcome to.
You may drink it with your troll house cookies.
Sometimes it is nice to have a "newbie" around!
Flame away--my heat pump is a little behind today!
You all have a nice day now, you hear?!
73, Cal K4JSR Beautiful Downtown Bethlehem, Ga.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W4PA on January 7, 2004
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KG6TKV: Welcome to ham radio. Change is good.
It makes us, and our interests, vital.
Whatever happened to spark gap anyway?
Scott W4PA
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KG6QHP on January 7, 2004
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Folks ---
Can't we disagree without being disagreeable? Some people are so grouchy and rude I can't believe their comments. Perhaps some high fiber muffins would help.
Jim
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W8JI on January 7, 2004
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I don't see how the anger is connected to a wonderful hobby like Ham radio. Anytime any article starts getting personal and directly insults other people, it turns into a peeing contest.
This isn't an "angry Ham" (similar to mad cow)issue. It is a "let me tell you all how stupid you are and how smart I am" issue.
Examples?
I think these articles and threads are just a way some people who can't contribute anything useful still get to have a voice.
(That was personal.)
I think we need more technical articles and less personal opinion articles.
(That was just an opinion.)
This article is actually like this tone:
You all are wrong for wanting to blah blah and are behind the times and should listen to me because I know more than you do.
Instead of:
I don't like CW and see no use for testing and think it hurts the hobby.
Many articles in this forum have the tone of "you said or did this and I know more than you do". When they happens, they turn into flame-fests and any hope of getting anything useful stops. Since that is always the result and we are all intelligent people, I can only conclude the goal of publishing is to start a fight.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WB2WIK on January 7, 2004
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Tom, you're on to something.
I heard from my dog's physchiatrist (who's a cat) that when I speak to my dog, all he hears is...
"blah blah blah blah blah blah blah FIDO blah blah blah blah blah blah FIDO blah blah blah blah blah..."
But of course, what's the cat know? When I speak to him, all he hears is...
"blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..."
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 7, 2004
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I pretty much have to agree with OLDFART13 here. The hobby I enjoy is Amateur Radio not Amateur "whatever mood strikes you/hey can't we all get along".
You say you're a newbie and it shows. Like it or not, Amateur Radio has a history. A rich and long one. Guys like Edwin Armstrong were radio amateurs. I like that association. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of guys with FCC licenses want to turn it into pseudo-internet this or that appliance operation with no code requirement so they have another outlet like HF SSTV to download porn. I don't like that.
Anyway, I reject your "can't we all just get along, change is good" claptrap.
Amateur Radio is about radio--RF. The art and skill of generation and reception of a transverse electromagnetic wave. Do you have to use Morse? No, but I defy you to point out a more efficient way to do the above.
If you just want to run down to the store, buy a box, flip a switch and yak, great! FRS and CB is the way to go.
Like I said, Amateur Radio has a history--about 100 years of it. I'm not saying were stuck to that history but I damn sure feel we should a)know it and b)respect it.
Why don't you read Clinton B. Desoto's "200 Meters and Down". After you get educated with that, you'll see that these "problems" are hardly new. You might gain some appreciation for the highly esteemed club you're now a member of as well.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K4JSR on January 7, 2004
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Steve, WB2WIK, Does your cat book appointments?
I think your feline has a deep understanding human
nature. Nothing at all Freudian about it since Kitty
is still Jung at heart.
73, Cal K4JSR
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KE4ZHN on January 7, 2004
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I can sleep much better tonight knowing that guys like Tracy are on the job. :-)
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by K0RGR on January 7, 2004
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Welcome to Amateur Radio, Tracy. I hope that you have been on the air enough to realize that what you read on the Internet bears no resemblance to what you find on the air.
Being nasty in print to newcomers has been a ham tradition since at least the early 1950's - the first time that the code requirements for a license were reduced. Operating CW seems to make some people emotionally imbalanced. As I said before someplace, very few amateurs know the Morse character for the colon (:) - resulting in a serious colon problem for some, and the results often find their way to these forums.
Not all change is good. We have lost some of our traditions, and I agree with those who call for the restoration of some of them. We need to make an effort to restore 'professionalism' to 'amateur' radio. By that, I don't mean we need to be more like the commercial radio users. I mean that we ALL need to strive to continuously improve our technical knowledge and operating skills.
Once upon a time, the FCC tests went a long way toward that goal. I wish we could go back to testing at the FCC offices - not because I had to endure some kind of an ordeal by fire that made me a better ham - but because sitting in front of a government official, in a marble office with a crummy pencil, literally sweating through an exam impressed one with the proper seriousness that a licensee should have.
I really think that there is not nearly enough emphasis in the Technician study material on the penalties for disobeying the rules, and more importantly WHY disobeying the rules is so serious.
Overall, I live to explore new modes, new bands, new gear, and new ways of using the old stuff. Hams do still contribute to the advancement of the radio arts, and hopefully always will. I've gone through periods of time when I only worked one mode or one band, and the result was boredom.
I still go back to revisit old modes I haven't used for a while. I think I will build a variant of the hookup featured elsewhere on eham to let me use my TNC and my RigBlaster together, as I have not been ablt to do AMTOR or PACTOR for long time, and I miss those modes inspite of their RFI potential. But there are still a lot of new modes I haven't seen yet. I can't wait for an affordable way to get into digital voice on HF.
I'm an optimist - most change is good.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by G0GQK on January 7, 2004
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You're absolutely right Tracy. Amateur radio is a hobby,a pastime, a pleasure, a time to relax and chat to people around the world, to enjoy their company for a short time, and an opportunity to leave them with a happy memory of your short meeting. Isn't that nice.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 7, 2004
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Getting along is for the French, Germans, some Canadians and U.N.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by TKV47 on January 7, 2004
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Most interesting. Not sure why my posting resurfaced from two months ago, but it did somehow.
It's amazing how childish, bitter and insecure some people are... and how much they read into things that which they want or expect to hear, instead of that which was really said.
On second thought, no it isn't. I expected it, unfortunately.
If eHam were reflective of the state of amateur radio, I'd run screaming...
That's probably why this was reposted... just to stir up a little activity.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 7, 2004
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Quote: "You're absolutely right Tracy. Amateur radio is a hobby,a pastime, a pleasure, a time to relax and chat to people around the world, to enjoy their company for a short time, and an opportunity to leave them with a happy memory of your short meeting. Isn't that nice."
I agree, but you would not think so from many of the comments posted here, you might get the impression that ham radio is the sole reason for some of these guys existence, it's hard to fathom a hobby being your reason to exist. One guy I know in another thread threatened to tear up his ticket and return to his former hobby should element 1 be eliminated, I'm anxiously awaiting the opportunity to remind him of that threat when the time comes.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 7, 2004
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>>>>I already gave up 27MHz. Isn't that enough? <<<<
What? Why did you do that fer good buddy? 27 mhz is the future of radio... (along wit dem dere galaxy radios and leenears)
Keep da greasy spoon up, and your flipper in yer pants.
10- roger
BEEP!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W8MW on January 7, 2004
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KG6TKV didn't say anything to justify the harsh responses in this thread. What he did was strike a nerve on some of you bitter old men. He dared to say you will be happier and healthier when you stop living in the past. Your holy war for so called high standards is being conducted with the lowest of standards, contrary to article one of The Radio Amateur's Code: The amateur is gentlemanly. The bitterness seen here only serves to validate the author's comments.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K9EZL on January 7, 2004
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Amen to your comments, W8MW. I agree with you. We should welcome all new hams regardless of what level license they hold. They are entitled to express their opinion. We don't have to agree with it but the last time I looked, we still have "free speech". Welcome Tracy to what can be an amazing hobby!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WILLY on January 7, 2004
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"
The issues are change, and experience. "
I would agree that refusing to consider change, to contemplate proposed changes - is ignorant.
But, change when no change is necessary, or change for the worse, is absolutely stupid!
Using the first behavior that I mention above is a typical method of those who have weak or no arguments, to try to sell them.
"
... modern technology has made obsolete much of our traditional relevance ... "
Technically, I'd say modern technology made two way radio completely obsolete. The cell phone by itself does that.
" But then there's experience... "
Darn right. I suggest you listen to, and respect the opinions of those with many more years of experience than you. If nothing else, consider this: there was something about the hobby that attracted you. If all those hams that came before you were doing it wrong, then it wouldn't have been an attractive hobby to you - would it?
"But also have the courage and maturity to share your experience and expertise when it really IS needed. "
Ok. Since you asked: We should keep the code requirement - and consider bringing back both the 13wpm and 20wpm tests like we used to have.
"Clinging to the past will only make you bitter "
Maybe.
But guaranteed that changing something, and thus ruining it, for no good reason - - that will make you bitter.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 7, 2004
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Ham radio will never change!
The bands shorter than 200 meters will never support reliable communications.
Plate modulation is a passing fad.
Next Field Day, everybody gets extra points for monitoring channel 9 for maritime distress calls (who needs 60 meters when there is CB).
Have FUN
Bob
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by KE6OUD on January 7, 2004
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(Amen to your comments, W8MW. I agree with you. We should welcome all new hams regardless of what level license they hold. They are entitled to express their opinion. We don't have to agree with it but the last time I looked, we still have "free speech". Welcome Tracy to what can be an amazing hobby! )
DITTO!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KN4NO on January 7, 2004
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Right on Willy. What I don't understand is why people who have to do virtually nothing to get a ham license these days would think they would automatically fit in with a group who had to work their butt off to get a ticket. I'm not saying that they can't fit in, but its like this - the FCC may make you legal, but they can't make you a ham anymore - not with today's standards. In the past, if you had your ticket, you were generally accepted by other hams because you had a mutual bond of sorts. What you have now is a very predictable culture clash between people who worked incredibly hard to get in this fraternity and those who want to do nothing. Those are two fundamentally different kinds of people. I'm sure that as soon as the 5 WPM test is done away with, the drums will immediately start beating to do away with the written tests too. You can't please people who don't want to work until they don't have to work at all.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3STC on January 7, 2004
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All I can say is that most hobbies do not have big business competing for the same radio frequencies. I’ve learned through my years that if you don’t think out of the box you get left behind. I believe he is correct that it’s not an issue of code, but how to keep the public support behind amateur radio so we can enjoy the use of the frequencies. Tradition and heritage is also important with understanding the needs and direction to help amateur radio grow. Code, no code is of little value with out frequencies to use them on. Build arguments on stable ground that will help amateur radio grow and support the public’s needs at the same time.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8MMZ on January 7, 2004
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If there are too many folks out there like CURMUDGEON - the hobby won't be around in 20~40 years. So waiting for 20~40 years to voice one's opinion is out of the question.
Well put Tracy, KG6TKV. Your opinion indeed carries a lot of weight because you don't have all of the baggage that CURMUDGEON, et. al. carry around.
CURMUDGEON and OLDFART13 - I think your comments should be overlooked - as far as I can tell, neither of you are in the ham radio service. I presume that you would have a callsign if you were. I'm glad Tracy has a CB around, because she can help out the people like OLDFART13 and CURMUDGEON who use handles and not callsigns (I would suppose that they are active CB'ers and good-buddies).
73's
N8MMZ
Jonathan
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KG4PFO on January 7, 2004
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I read all these post,I kinda liked this one.....I think some "you know who you are".......are the most NEGATIVE people on earth.........using these post only to vent.
Get a life !!!
KG4PFO
Proud to be a Tech
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 7, 2004
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Quote: "CURMUDGEON and OLDFART13 - I think your comments should be overlooked - as far as I can tell, neither of you are in the ham radio service. I presume that you would have a callsign if you were. I'm glad Tracy has a CB around, because she can help out the people like OLDFART13 and CURMUDGEON who use handles and not callsigns (I would suppose that they are active CB'ers and good-buddies).
73's
N8MMZ
Jonathan"
Hey Jonathan, that was well put, I like your style. To hear OF13 and CURM..whatever his name is, you would think they were the be all, know all, gods of ham radio, well they are not, you can be sure of that. One of them is an outright liar at times, and the other, well just a loudmouth most of the time as far as I can tell.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 7, 2004
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From a fellow writer on this rowdy public forum who has felt the heat from those who are inveterate (not invertebrate, but perhaps that is appropo as well, ie spineless) bomb throwers, I thought the fellow's article was a good read, well reasoned out, with minimal grammatical errors.
So what's the big hullabaloo? No need to slam the guy personally. You can disagree with him, but don't tell the man he has no right to speak because he didn't manufacture his own vacuum tubes from scratch.
This is AMERICA, boys and girls, land of the free, home of the brave. Our sons and daughters are DYING overseas right now to protect our rights and freedoms. I take extreme offense to those who say the man needs to be quiet.
We are at WAR, folks, don't forget that. There, off my soapbox for now. DED No. 7 coming up soon, and its VOLTA!!!!
Philip Neidlinger, PE
KA4KOE
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8YV on January 7, 2004
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To KB9YZL: My point is this---nothing can turn back the clock. Such an invention doesn't exist. I am not in despair, and damned if I'll surrender to change, merely for the sake of change. There are reasons why the sun sets and rises, airplanes have wings and radio waves do what they do.
There are also many who have no clue why things are the way they are! Knowing the reason for the way things are, is to know why some shouldn't be changed, or even CAN'T be changed. Ignorance of those reasons does not qualify one to casually assume that all "change is good".
I admire your fortitude and and positive attitude, as well as that of your friend with cerebral palsey. We all can learn from the example people with serious debilitating disorders (Dr. Hawking, for example) set for the rest of us. However, that is light years away from the subject of this thread, to which I posted my reply.
Finally, with all due respect, I don't admire your Dr. Phil impersonation, and would appreciate you keeping your freshman psychology-student musings to yourself.
N8YV
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N9DG on January 7, 2004
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KG6TKV:
"This is a hobby, friends, not a religion. Things change.
Clinging to the past will only make you bitter;
forgetting the past makes you foolish.
While letting go, remember. Move forward."
Now those are some words of genuine wisdom, and they were posted here by a ham "newbie" no less. They both acknowledge what was learned in the past but yet recognize that future must be made up of change.
And for all of you who jumped all over Tracy about wanting "easier" CW or other license testing requirements in general, - he said no such thing. He simply stated that those kinds of issues are really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Also some very true words of wisdom.
And no, not all change is "good", however to not even try, or want to, is far worse. And while some new ideas don't work, many more do, and yet others are just plain too far ahead of their time to work now, but they are instead planting the seeds for yet more change in the future.
And remember, if no one had ever tried to do new and different things throughout the all those years of past history we would not have any of what we have today, period.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by URBANGORILLA on January 7, 2004
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N3TTN, you are one of those no-code CB good buddies who is waiting for the code test to go the way of the Berlin Wall. You have been licensed 10 years already, yet you refuse to do what is necessary to upgrade. All you are is one of the welfare radio people. Gimme, gimme, gimme for NTTN, just like your callsign says. When you pay your dues, then maybe we will give you permission to shoot your mouth off, you outspoken brat!
As for the original article, its just another attempt to stir up the no-coders to keep their momentum going. More fodder for the welfare class.
URBANGORILLA
A Know-Code Ham & Proud of It!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KE6OUD on January 7, 2004
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"N3TTN, you are one of those no-code CB good buddies who is waiting for the code test to go the way of the Berlin Wall. You have been licensed 10 years already, yet you refuse to do what is necessary to upgrade. All you are is one of the welfare radio people. Gimme, gimme, gimme for NTTN, just like your callsign says. When you pay your dues, then maybe we will give you permission to shoot your mouth off, you outspoken brat!
As for the original article, its just another attempt to stir up the no-coders to keep their momentum going. More fodder for the welfare class.
URBANGORILLA
A Know-Code Ham & Proud of It! "
Well now, I refuse to have a battle of wits here with a guy or gal here whom is un-armed! This is one who not only flames everyones opinion, but too scared to use his call sign which I doubt he/she has. In the old CB world, all I can say to his remarks is: Shut Up Stupid! If you can't say anything nice or have a creative opinion, go away....YOU are the type I don't want to have an intelligent conversation with by phone or CW as you have no clue as to what is going on here. 73 to the rest of you........Charlie
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by URBANGORILLA on January 7, 2004
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KE6OUD,
Well, here's another CB good buddy who's been licensed for 10 years and hasn't upgraded. Another welfare radio person waiting for the Berlin Wall to fall. G'way Charlie. Ya bodda me.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA0LSS on January 8, 2004
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First of all thanks for a thoughtful contribution and ignore the flamethrowers...
Second, as to emergency services, you are exactly correct. Whether the medium is HF, VHF, or cell phones, the key is not the transport technology but the skill of the operator. Passing traffic, listing traffic, and maintaining communication when the proverbial S hits the F requires experienced people. While it might be nice if they all came with redundant power supplies and HF mobiles (I fall into that catagory) and there just might be a time when excellent cw skills help (but even though I might be in that catagory I doubt that too to be honest) what I KNOW will be needed are SKILLED OPERATORS. That means people who can work in an orderly, thoughtful manner.
And given some of the spiteful flames I've seen here I can tell you that if the future of ham radio depends on the "old timers" (and I am one) then maybe we're all in trouble. Let's start by being agreeable, thoughtful, and supportive of our fellow hams.
My vote is for a "big tent" where all hams and prospective hams are welcomed with open arms. It isn't about CW, years of service, or the difficulty of examination. It's about fellowship and service. We can and must do better. Starting today.
73's!
Scott
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by SIREX on January 8, 2004
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WOW What kind of hobby did I get myself into. I am a newbie too. I passed my element 2 and and just passed my element 3. I cuurently have learned to copy sixteen letters in two weeks. It is hard to learn cw but I really want to talk long distance. Will I use cw I might. I find it interesting. But I propably won't be fast enough for you or your computer programs. But heres my problem. YOU WERE ALL NEWBIES AT ONE TIME!! Did people treat you like crap. The survival of ham is at stake I hear people say. Why sure it is with some of you jerks why would anyone want to be ham. When I get my cw and get HF privalages (and I will) I hope I don't meet half of you on the airways. I have met a lot of nice people in ham radio and have really enjoyed talking to them. But some of you people take the cake.
The peple that run this forum should require all persons making a post to give their call. And until they do I will not contribute one dime to this site.
Also I would like to thank some the hams on here that have helped me out this is not intended for you.
73's
KC9FFU
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by K6BBC on January 8, 2004
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Keeping a CB radio along side his ham gear to hear some cracker sink in a bog. That one really made me slap my knee. And I’m never going to stop bragging about my ADVANCED LICENSE!
K6BBC
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 8, 2004
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It's a hobby.
It's fun. It's easy. It's relaxing. The public service aspect is rewarding. So's the technical aspect.
It's the same hobby it was 30 years ago. But it's in a communications environment that is radically different than it was 30 years ago.
The telcommunications infrastructure supports usage that is, litteraly, millions of times more than the ham community could cope with. The same infrastructure is far more robust than it's ever been in the past.
The technical skills necessary to advance the state of the art require far more training than they did 30 years ago. The low hanging fruit has all been picked. The economic barrier to entry is one or two orders of magnitude beyond the budget of most hams.
You can't avoid change in the hobby, because the changes that matter are coming from outside the hobby.
It's no big deal these days to use radiotelephony to make long distance contacts. It is done, litterally, billions of times a day.
Served agencies have much more robust systems in place, especially in populated areas, than 30 years ago. They're also looking for volunteers who wish to do more than just run a radio.
The technical skills and tool required to advance the state of the art in radio communication are beyond the reach of all but a few amateurs.
So, we take a deep breath, we remind ourselves that we enjoy what we do, and we have fun.
73
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by KT0DD on January 8, 2004
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Regardless of what the liberals in this world say, Change, just for the sake of change is NOT good, it usually leads to chaos. Change is ONLY good when it serves to the betterment of a specific purpose. The changes to amateur radio by the no-coders are directed more toward inciting chaos, and not benefitting anything except laziness. 73.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 8, 2004
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KT0DD;
You seem to be adopting an attitude that *any* change to the ham radio status quo is negative, and suggest a sort of "Fortress Ham Radio" mentality that implies that all the good stuff has already happened and anything else that comes along is automatically bad. While you seem to attribute such change to the so called "no coders" (and, like many others, wrongly relate it to motives of laziness), one cannot deny that technological change is the driving force. I, for one, am not prepared to see the hobby drift into some forgotten backwater where all we do from now on is utilize existing technology. There is more to ham radio than that and there will continue to be if we embrace the inevitable changes. We may not be on the cutting edge of the latest technologies but we can still manage to maintain a place near the sharp end, if we try, as opposed to burying our heads in the sand and blaming all our percieved woes on one group or another.
73, Pete
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KT0DD on January 8, 2004
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N3EVL:
I can cite many examples of failed change, such as deregulation of the telephone and power companies, resulting in much poorer service and the tripling of fees in many areas, just to name a few. And as far as acceptance of change, or rather the "forced acceptance of change", well, any society that can rationalize and justify homosexuality, is capable of just about anything. A famous line I heard in a movie once was: It's not about black & white, it's about right and wrong. This lesson has been so distorted in today's society, it's no wonder that ethics, morals & values are all but dead.
To each their own it this hobby, but I will not be a participant in the dumbing down of it. I can be in this hobby, and yet, not of it. I will pick and choose carefully whom I communicate with. 73.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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Gee SIREX... dig out your panties and get a grip...
You wrote -
WOW What kind of hobby did I get myself into... I cuurently [sic] have learned to copy sixteen letters in two weeks. It is hard to learn cw [sic] but I really want to talk long distance...
Reminds me of that Barbie doll that used to say "math is hard". And nobody's buying that "gee, what did I get into" crap. You knew exactly what you were getting into and want it big-time. Why else would you bother even consider learning a useless, dead-end language like Morse?
...But heres my problem. YOU WERE ALL NEWBIES AT ONE TIME!! Did people treat you like crap. The survival of ham is at stake I hear people say. Why sure it is with some of you jerks why would [sic] anyone want to be ham...
I know I didn't come into the hobby and start railing against it or tell the veterans they were stupid and outdated or set in their ways. I figured they may know a little more than me. So... no, they didn't treat me like crap but then, I treated them with a modicum of respect.
...When I get my cw [sic] and get HF privalages [sic] (and I will) I hope I don't meet half of you on the airways...
My guess is you won't learn CW, won't get HF privileges
and therefore, won't meet too many other hams beyond your local repeater. You'll then consider this to be the entire Amateur Radio sphere and continue to criticize the other 90% of Amateur Radio that you don't understand.
Nothing against you, but in my experience, those that learn Morse spend their time learning Morse rather than carping about it.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 8, 2004
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KT0DD:
I don't agree that the changes we're seeing are necessarily dumbing down the hobby. I see a lot of people who are so impressed with what they've learned in the past the can't see beyond their sucesses to grasp anything new or at least evaluate it fairly.
I don't agree that the removal of the code test necesarily results in an overall dumbing down of the hobby either.
I have no idea why you raised the issue of people's sexual preferences having anything to do with the discussion at hand. Sounds like this is your real agenda.
I trust you will enjoy what's left of the hobby for you.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WILLY on January 8, 2004
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"
by SIREX on January 8, 2004
WOW What kind of hobby did I get myself into. "
A very broad and excellent one.
" I am a newbie too."
Welcome!
---
I cuurently have learned to copy sixteen letters in two weeks. It is hard to learn cw "
No, it is not.
What is a bit difficult, is the dedication it takes, to make oneself find the time, and sit down, and concentrate on it - daily - until one achieves enough skill with it to pass.
" but I really want to talk long distance. "
You could do that now, with the 6 meter band, couldn't you?
Maybe you mean you want, for example, to use the 15 and 20 meter bands.
---
"But I propably won't be fast enough for you "
Don't worry about that! Getting better is is what most of us need to do! :)
The real idea is to continue to move in the right direction, i.e. improving one's CW skills, - not moving in the wrong direction, i.e. eliminating them.
Hang in there. You'll get there if you do.
---
" But heres my problem. YOU WERE ALL NEWBIES AT ONE TIME!! "
That's a problem? It is YOUR problem?? how?
How is it a problem at all, let alone YOUR problem?
"Did people treat you like crap."
Of course not.
I didn't treat them like crap either. :)
I treated all of them with respect. Naturally, as with any group of human beings there are a few that not pleasant. I found with ham radio that this percentage was much smaller than with many other groups.
With those few, I simply avoided them. With the majority, I enjoyed their companionship and excellent advice.
---
" I have met a lot of nice people in ham radio and have really enjoyed talking to them. "
I see you have too. Good.
---
" The peple that run this forum should require all persons making a post to give their call. "
You're telling somebody else what they should do, with their own computers, site, etc. ? Interesting....
Just some FYI: This is the internet. There are very good reasons for choosing to not post one's callsign. It is a personal choice, and this site allows one to make that choice when posting. It is as simple as that.
Maybe you would like something of a more moderated forum. Try FidoNet. Or set up your own website, with rules that you like.
---
"Also I would like to thank some the hams on here that have helped me out this is not intended for you.
73's
KC9FFU "
No problem. :)
While we're at it, let me explain something else for you. "73" is an abbreviation from long ago, that means "Best regards". Logically then, "73's" means "Best regardses", which is senseless. I think what has happened here, is that CB'ers 'borrowed' our term and morphed it. You might like to use the term as "73" in the future, so you don't sound/look like a CB'er.
Of course, if you prefer to sound/look like a CB'er, the decision is yours.
73
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WILLY on January 8, 2004
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"
by KT0DD on January 8, 2004
Regardless of what the liberals in this world say, Change, just for the sake of change is NOT good, it usually leads to chaos. Change is ONLY good when it serves to the betterment of a specific purpose. The changes to amateur radio by the no-coders are directed more toward inciting chaos, and not benefitting anything except laziness. 73. "
An excellent post!
Nothing you have said can logically and reasonably be argued with.
I envy your ability to make your statement so clearly with such brevity.
73
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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KG6TKV
Thank you for your enlightenment. I was lost now with this information I can find my way.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WILLY on January 8, 2004
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"by N3EVL on January 8, 2004
KT0DD:
I don't agree that the changes we're seeing are necessarily dumbing down the hobby. "
What?
Why not?
Obviously, requiring less of a candidate to pass an examination, IS dumbing down the exam. That is what has happened.
You must agree that less is being required as compared to a few years ago.
"I see a lot of people who are so impressed with what they've learned in the past the can't see beyond their sucesses to grasp anything new or at least evaluate it fairly. "
Really?
What's new? that we are discussing here? PSK? DSP?
Stuff like that?
You know, there's probably some here that remember when SSB was something new to grasp and evaluate. :)
These types of things sure have been grasped and evaluated, haven't they?
Wait.... or are you wanting us to consider the dumbing down of our examinations as something new to grasp and evaluate?
"I don't agree that the removal of the code test necesarily results in an overall dumbing down of the hobby either. "
You're qualified this statement with the term "overall". That could be then be argued forever, and take us off on a tangent.
Specifically though, the removal of the code test dumbs down that area. That is obvious.
"
I have no idea why you raised the issue of people's sexual preferences having anything to do with the discussion at hand. Sounds like this is your real agenda. "
??
He made no specific reference to sexual preferences.
Yet you manufacture it, and then try to use it to conclude that he has some "real agenda".
This appears to be a pathetic attempt to impugn the individual. tsk, tsk, tsk.....
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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All you liberals are the same, at best profoundly ignorant more often, stupendously moronic, always angry, close minded, big headed, arrogant, self-important, relative moralists asses. And that is seeing "the glas half full"
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 8, 2004
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I have made accouple replies to what the character named "willy" said. I am very sorry to say that what you have to say and the image that you put forth of a ham operator is ugly. There are many things that are wonderful and interesting about ham, but Mr. you are not one of them. Thank God that there are good hams out there that show a proper representation of what ham is about and is to be in our future. Ugly, ugly, ugly....
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 8, 2004
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I have made accouple replies to what the character named "willy" said. I am very sorry to say that what you have to say and the image that you put forth of a ham operator is ugly. There are many things that are wonderful and interesting about ham, but Mr. you are not one of them. Thank God that there are good hams out there that show a proper representation of what ham is about and is to be in our future. Ugly, ugly, ugly....
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 8, 2004
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WILLY:
No, I do not really agree that less is being required than a few years ago. See W1RFIs excellent comments a while back on the subject of relative complexity of the exams in the 60's vs now. I also do not buy this often spouted idea of candidates memorizing entire exam pools. If they can, good luck to them, but I suspect it's easier to learn the material in the normal manner. I also think we're overdue for a reappraisal of what the testing is supposed to prove in terms of getting on the air vs learning stuff that improves our understanding of the technology etc. I think way to much emphasis is put on bits of paper that can be waved about vs knowledge that is acquired over the long term.
As far as the specific issue of the code test is concerned, I see no value in maintaining a requirement that does not match up with a requirement that we actuallly use the mode. If people want to use the mode at some point in their ham 'careers' then that's fine. I just don't see the need for it as an up-front requirement. I don't think it's a hard requirement, just an unnecessary one. If we do have it then it should at least be relevant to them mode for which it tests and not just an arbitrary means of keeping the exams 'difficult'.
As far as the new stuff goes, yes, I would include DSP technology. Yes, SSB was grasped and evaluated in the 60's and so on. I sense a lot of people wish that the technology had frozen at that time - which of course it hasn't and won't ever.
Please reread the original post to which I was replying and I'm sure you'll see the ref to homosexuality - I certainly did not raise this issue and do not think it has any relevance to this discussion.
73, Pete
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K4PDM on January 8, 2004
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Some of you folks who reply...Do you really expect us to read (and respect) your usually lengthy reply if you don't give your callsign?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CURMUDGEON on January 8, 2004
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Do you who usually just arrived on the block, without any historical perspective, really expect any of us to take your opinions to heart, regardless of whether you have a call or not?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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NOLICENSEASOFYET wrote,
>>> am very sorry to say that what you have to say and the image that you put forth of a ham operator is ugly. There are many things that are wonderful and interesting about ham [sic], but Mr. [sic] you are not one of them. Thank God that [sic] there are good hams out there that show a proper representation of what ham [sic]is about and is to be in our future. Ugly, ugly, ugly....
My question to you, NOLICENSE, is... how the hell do you know?? Your experience is what... eHam.net???
Go get educated, take a few simple exams, operate for... say... six months, then let us know what you think.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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Pete, N3EVL wrote:
...I sense a lot of people wish that the technology had frozen at that time - which of course it hasn't and won't ever...
I've never, ever, seen anyone express that opinion. As a pro-code, know-code biggot, I love seeing new technology and advancement. But I also love Morse.
What I object to are people without licenses or code proficiency arguing to remove testing requirement and eliminate sub-bands and using inane arguments like "it's old so it's bad". Well so is a pencil but I bet you still use one.
I resent the attempt by those ignorant of the subject to try and deprive me of something I enjoy greatly. Especially since their motivation is laziness and ignorance. It's that simple. It's not arrogance, it's not elitism, it's not because I'm old (still a young stud in fact) it's just trying to hang on to something I worked for and enjoy.
I find these aforementioned folks to be selfish, intolerant, ignorant, narcissistic, whining, lazy and annoying. If only they wrote, in detail, about their colons, prostrates and cholesterol levels, they would be perfect hams.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by G3SEA on January 8, 2004
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Gentlemen,Gentlemen ! Cool it dudes :)
Let's put the Ham back into Ham Radio and leave the politics and spill over from the culture wars OUT :)
Believe me Ham Radio will survive no matter what modes folks use in the future.
Spend more time on the air ( or EchoLink :) ) and less squabbling on EHam.net ( but do patronize all the wonderful services and features on this website ).
The glass is half full :)
Happy New Year all :)
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Posted by by N3TTN on January 7, 2004:
"One guy I know in another thread threatened to tear up his ticket and return to his former hobby should element 1 be eliminated, I'm anxiously awaiting the opportunity to remind him of that threat when the time comes."
You're taking out of context what I posted. I never stated that I would tear up my license if the Element 1 exam was eliminated. First off, the particular thread that you make mention to no longer exists on eHam. The webmaster decided to pull it on request from the article's author. The article was posted sometime in mid to late November. I do not archive everything that I post, but to the best of my recollection, I was agreeing with another ham who said that he would submit his license for cancellation should the amateur radio service take on the same licensing characteristics as CB licensing in the 1970s, which was no test, fill out an application and pay a fee. I do remember indicating that under such circumstances, that I would submit my license to the FCC for cancellation in four pieces and go back to the hobby that I was active in before radio, which was model railroading. If Element 1 is eliminated across the board, I most likely will cease phone operation and go purely CW. If you're an example of what I can expect on HF if the floodgates are opened, I would want no part of phone anymore.
I have been doing my best to stay clear of anything you've been posting in order to avoid any further heated arguments with you, but you seem to be completely obsessed and consumed with the idea of seeking me out, just to continue your confrontation with me. Needless to say, I have not been following all the threads on eHam and QRZ lately, so I have no idea how many other times you sought to provoke me. Why don't you give it a permanent rest? It would be in the best interests of you, me and the rest of hamdom if we avoided each other and ceased all provocations against each other. Plainly put, I want nothing more to do with you. I have nothing more to say to you.
AG4RQ is QRT
AR SK
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 8, 2004
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The answer to your silly little question is that I have been through extensive radio traing in the United States Marine Corps. I have taken several classes on the basic elements of electricity and fundamentals. I have a brain and as most any article will tell you. Any age person can obtain a ticket, they have for decades at ages as low as six. Now ramble on and on more about how you are better, more qualified, prettier, smarter, more responsible, can dance better, cook better, sing better, fart better than.........well anyone that isn't you.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3EVL on January 8, 2004
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N2XE:
I think some of your response was directed to me and some was more general but, to clarify my position:
a) I am pro-code in terms of using the mode
b) I no longer see any relevance to a code test as a license requirement - for personal satisfaction, yes, but not as a license requirement
c) I do not wish to see the elimination or reduction of the code segments of the bands (is this what you mean when you say you're trying to hang on to something you've earned?)
d) I still use a pencil
e) I have no interest in colons, prostrates, etc. either with respect to ham radio or in general
73, Pete
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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NOLICENSE wrote:
...Any age person can obtain a ticket, they have for decades at ages as low as six...
You are wrong wrong wrong. Any person can't get a license and you're proof of that.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 8, 2004
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Again, you are incorrect, "any age" not any person.
Read the license requirements.
Any age person
A person of any age.
NOT ANY PERSON.
But as you stated, apparently any person can, you have one. So even monkeys at the zoo have a shot.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC2HUV on January 8, 2004
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N2XE wrote:
>>>"It's not arrogance, it's not elitism, it's not because I'm old (still a young stud in fact) it's just trying to hang on to something I worked for and enjoy."
Oooooh you liar John! Clearly you were describing me here! Tell the XYL not to forget your Grecian Formula this month.... ;)
'73,
Mike
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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<<Oooooh you liar John! Clearly you were describing me here! Tell the XYL not to forget your Grecian Formula this month.... ;)>>
Thanks Richard
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
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AG4RQ Wrote" You're taking out of context what I posted. I never stated that I would tear up my license if the Element 1 exam was eliminated. First off, the particular thread that you make mention to no longer exists on eHam."
You are delusional, the guy I was referring to is not you, and the thread was not even at eham, so I really have no idea where you came up with this.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 8, 2004
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No License,
...Any age person can obtain a ticket...
No, you are an age person and can't obtain a license. Therefore the statement is false.
Moreover, you make light of how simple it is to get a license yet can't seem to solve that problem for yourself. The Technician written exam is not what I would call easy so you have my sympathy.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Posted by by N3TTN on January 8, 2004:
"You are delusional, the guy I was referring to is not you, and the thread was not even at eham, so I really have no idea where you came up with this."
Yeah, OK. Have it your way. But I did say what I said. When is this N3TTN vs. AG4RQ debate going to end? I prefer to end it right now. I will agree to stay clear of your posts if you agree to stay clear of mine. Otherwise the winner will be the one who goes to the grave last.
This and other dogfights on this site show that the code/no-code issue has brought about an irrevocable schism among the ranks of ham radio. This was brought about by No Code International and their desire to "fix" something that wasn't broken. I I've had enough. I'm going on the air, where hams still have a tendency to act more civil than here in this cyber-jungle; at least for now. I'm outta here! 73.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 8, 2004
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> Do you who usually just arrived on the block,
> without any historical perspective, really expect
> any of us to take your opinions to heart, regardless
> of whether you have a call or not?
It's the internet. I don't expect anything.
But if you base your judgement of someone's opinion on how long they've held a ticket, rather than on the quality of what they say, you have my condolences. Even more so if you think that lack of years licensed is the same as lack of historical perspective.
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by N3TNQ on January 8, 2004
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The original post did have some valid points. I am NOT for removal of the Morse Code requirement, but if it is removed I will live with it. The interesting point I have seen made is that many people are decrying how "newbies" are treated here. With a few exceptions, I have seen those that come here seeking to learn and asking for help being treated rather well. It is the ones who come in crying and whining about how things are that seem to get the most flames. Unhappy with how things are now? Try to change them, wait for them to change, or seek the help to learn the skills required at this time. I am not saying this as a put down. I am just saying do something about it. Those assuming that the code requirement is soon to disappear may find themselves waiting for a good while. If you do not wish HF privileges, fine. I have nothing against the No-code tech license. I am referring only to those who whine and cry that they want access to HF without meeting the current criteria. Hams today have one big advantage over me when I became licensed. :) All you have to do is come someplace like this and sincerely ask for help and you will most likely find it. I didn't have an elmer and I had to unlearn some pretty bad habits (like not knowing about Farnsworth spacing and originally learning code at 5 wpm spacing) LOL.
You may not believe it, but if you ask for legitimate help around here, you will find MANY are willing to do what they can.
Howard
N3TNQ
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by W8FAX on January 8, 2004
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Jeeeez H.........If ya wanna be a ham, why don't you dry the crocodile tears from your eyes, wipe the snot from your nose and take the tests, and hush. If ya just CAN'T hack it, please take up fishing and leave OUR hobby alone, it DON'T need fixed. It's been fixed enuff. BTW....what the heck does being older have to do with anything?? Other than causing traffic accidents.....
"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by SIREX on January 8, 2004
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To N2XE
I never called any of you veterens stupid or outdated. I have the utmost respect for my elders (and I am serious). Also if you look at some of my other posts I am for CW because it is part of the heritage of ham radio. Also I feel if you realy want something you have to work for and if you knew me you would know I speak the truth. I was only saying that so many people call ham radio a fraternity and if we base it on some of the comments on this site this family of brothers is pretty difunctional. The guy said some things and everybody starts fighting. I have written your call down and when I pass my cw I will be looking you up you old fart(LOL). Also I don't wear panties I wear briefs and I don't want to dig them out I like them there. One more thing you should stop playing with barbie dolls. When in Rome do as the Romans do.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by SIREX on January 8, 2004
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Sorry for the double post but I forgot my call.
73
KC9FFU
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N0RKX on January 8, 2004
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>>a) I am pro-code in terms of using the mode
>>b) I no longer see any relevance to a code test as a license requirement - for personal satisfaction, yes, but not as a license requirement
>>c) I do not wish to see the elimination or reduction of the code segments of the bands (is this what you mean when you say you're trying to hang on to something you've earned?)
>>d) I still use a pencil.
Ditto, although I'd like to see us go back to theory tests that were real tests of radio theory not the published question pool pharce we have now. If we quit publishing the question pools people will have to actually learn some of this stuff.
Oh...........wait a minute.........there may be parts of RF, AC, DC, electronic theory, and FCC regs that SOME people, (usually those looking for the easy way in life or another entitlement) find objectionable, out of date, or irrelevent to the world we live in today. They'd end up petitioning the ITU and the FCC to eliminate theory testing all together.
A perfect example of "progress" is the internet. Any bozo with the cash can run down to Walmart and get a cheap personal confuser and get on the internet inside of 30 minutes.
Do we really want to turn Ham Radio into something thats 95% irrelevent like the internet? Is the seething cespool of crud called the internet progress. Can someone really claim that what used to be ARPAnet and is now the WWW is a shining example of humankind making progress?
Top all of those claiming that tougher tests and CW are keeping technically savvy people out of the hobby I stand and say PROVE it! Why should we consider letting the great unwashed hoard have unfettered access to HF bands "progress"?
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by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
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AG4RQ Wrote: "Yeah, OK. Have it your way. But I did say what I said. When is this N3TTN vs. AG4RQ debate going to end? I prefer to end it right now. I will agree to stay clear of your posts if you agree to stay clear of mine. Otherwise the winner will be the one who goes to the grave last. "
Earth to AG4RQ....Come in AG4RQ....The only N3TTN vs AG4RQ debate is in your mind, fortunately. There is nothing to agree to, because it does not exist, except in your delusions, but if it will make you feel any better I will reiterate what you said earlier....I have nothing more to say to you.
N3TTN, Out.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 8, 2004
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> Do we really want to turn Ham Radio into something
> thats 95% irrelevent like the internet? Is the
> seething cespool of crud called the internet
> progress. Can someone really claim that what used to
> be ARPAnet and is now the WWW is a shining example
> of humankind making progress?
As my favorite fish, Ted Sturgon, used to say, "90% of everything is crap."
The trick of diamond mining is filtering the crap to get at the good stuff.
> Top all of those claiming that tougher tests and CW
> are keeping technically savvy people out of the
> hobby I stand and say PROVE it! Why should we
> consider letting the great unwashed hoard have
> unfettered access to HF bands "progress"?
I have never encountered anyone who claims that tougher tests are keeping technically savvy people out of the hobby. I have, on the other hand, encountered technically savvy people who haven't bothered with the hobby because of the Morse requirement.
I myself, stayed away from amateur radio until recently because I didn't want to spend time on learning Morse -- even though I've been involved in RF since the mid '70s, when I became chief engineer at a college radio station.
As far as "great unwashed hoard", from what I've read about Dayton, I'd say you've already let them into the hobby -- many years ago.
It's a hobby. A pleasant, easy, relaxing hobby, with the added benefit of personal satisfaction from service and from learning.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2ERN on January 8, 2004
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and your point is...?
I was 45 when I finally took my thumb out of my butt and got my ticket. I didn't care about anything except DOING it. In the intervening 25 years I've tried CW, satellite, ARES, 2M ssb, packet and a bunch of other things. Some I still do, and some I don't. You do what you like, It's a big, great hobby, and no one will force you to participate in things you don't care about. Today, I'm a DXer 99% of the time. But my TNC is now retired, and my Mac and cable internet connection works great for PacketCluster.
The only thing you are SUPPOSED to do is...
HAVE FUN! (and you don't even have to do it in CW on your fan dipole)
harry
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Posted by N3TTN on January 8, 2004:
"Earth to AG4RQ....Come in AG4RQ....The only N3TTN vs AG4RQ debate is in your mind, fortunately. There is nothing to agree to, because it does not exist, except in your delusions, but if it will make you feel any better I will reiterate what you said earlier....I have nothing more to say to you."
Delusions my a**! You are nothing but a stinking troublemaker who is out to defame me and make me look like I belong in a rubber room. You just won't quit. Let me tell you something, you're the dang psychopath, dude. Cursed is the day that the FCC ever gave the likes of you a license. You are a disgrace to ham radio! You don't even deserve to be on CB! Read my lips. Drop dead! I'm not going to answer you anymore you stinking troll. Go try to make someone else's life miserable, you stinking parasite! Leach!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KE6OUD on January 8, 2004
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"As far as "great unwashed hoard", from what I've read about Dayton, I'd say you've already let them into the hobby -- many years ago."
Hey Martin, (AE6IP) Great comment! I wanna party with you sometime! 73, Charlie
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
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AG4RQ Wrote: "Delusions my a**! You are nothing but a stinking troublemaker who is out to defame me and make me look like I belong in a rubber room. You just won't quit. Let me tell you something, you're the dang psychopath, dude. Cursed is the day that the FCC ever gave the likes of you a license. You are a disgrace to ham radio! You don't even deserve to be on CB! Read my lips. Drop dead! I'm not going to answer you anymore you stinking troll. Go try to make someone else's life miserable, you stinking parasite! Leach!"
This is getting absurd, but I just thought you should know that I recently submitted an article to eham titled "what will no coders do" or words to that effect, the article was approved, and I assume at some point it will be posted. At any rate in the article I make mention of "the guy who threatened to tear up his ticket" and I just want to make it clear one more time: The guy I was referring to IS NOT YOU, OK? No mention of you, your call, or anything about you, got it?? I just wanted to make this public in case when the article is posted you start with your hallucinations again. Just take your medication and you will be fine.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K4IQT on January 8, 2004
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Is this a debate or an all-out fight?
Guys, please go settle your differences via e-mail and stop using this forum to spit on each other.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Scott Shuford (N3TTN):
I know you're in the Army. How would you like it if I submit a formal written complaint against you to your commanding officer for harassing me? Is this what the Army does with the taxpayers' money? Gives Military Internet access and a Military e-mail account to creeps like you so you can spread your drivel on eHam and harass members of the civilian population?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Isn't it something? My eHam article was a constructive "how to" article on how to construct a homebrew paddle. N3TTN submits a confrontational article to eHam that will only serve to stoke the flames of the great Code/No-Code debate. Who is the man of peace, and who is the troublemaker? The only articles I intend to submit to eHam will be "how to" articles.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Posted by by K4IQT on January 8, 2004:
"Is this a debate or an all-out fight?
Guys, please go settle your differences via e-mail and stop using this forum to spit on each other."
If N3TTN attempts to send me anymore e-mails, I WILL complain to his commanding officer. I didn't start this BS between myself and N3TTN, he did, back in November. But I intend to finish it.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
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I've already sent an e-mail to the eham webmaster on this, so hopefully it will be resolved soon. I have no intention of sending e-mail or any other type of communication to AG4RQ, now or ever.
N3TTN
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
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Quote "I know you're in the Army. How would you like it if I submit a formal written complaint against you to your commanding officer for harassing me?"
Just for the record, I AM NOT IN THE ARMY, OK? Look, you said that you wanted to end it, ok I will take you at your word, lets end it.
N3TTN, Out
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 8, 2004
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Posted by by N3TTN on January 8, 2004
"OK? Look, you said that you wanted to end it, ok I will take you at your word, lets end it."
Fine with me. Its ended.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by W3DCG on January 8, 2004
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My observations concerning this article, as a Newbie.
"I may be a new Ham, but I'm an older guy, and I've seen my share of disasters, large and small."
"Friends, it's NOT our radios -- it's US."
"If some fisherman in the bay is sinking, and only can afford a CB - I'll hear him."
And most of all,
"Clinging to the past will only make you bitter;
forgetting the past makes you foolish."
Can't argue with any of it.
Most excellent.
73.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB1IVU on January 8, 2004
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We need more newbie articles...or is it newbee...or newbeigh...????
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 8, 2004
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OKAY,
Time for the adults to come in and take over. You two, get to your rooms NOW!!!!!!!
If I hear anymore bickering or whining I'm coming in with the YOU KNOW WHAT.....
Don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about little mister!!!!
Imagine how embarrassing it would be if some of these exchanges took place in a very public place. Someone would get a 55 gallon drum of a** whup poured on them.
All that ham intellect boiled down to juvenile bickering. How charming.
HAPPY NEW YEAR KIDS!!! DED NO. 6 is coming soon.
Philip Neidlinger, PE
KA4KOE
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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This is what I have to say to the lazy, slothful types who lack the desire to spend the energy to pass element one. I received my first license, Tech with H.F. ( which means of course that I passed element one) on 8/15/00. On 8/8/02, I had to pass element one once again to get my General. I have never, not even once, used C.W. on the air. My daughter passed element one her first time at the age of 15 ( tech with H.F.), and once again at the age of 17 (General). She also has never used C.W. other than to pass the test. If you and your kind would spend half as much time studying for element one as you do whining about it, you could pass it. So stop your whining, pass the test, and be a hero not a zero.
I think John is right on the money, see below.
"Anyone too stupid or lazy to pass a lousy 5 wpm cw test doesnt deserve HF privledges, plain and simple. Get off that lazy butt, quit whining and crying and learn something that thousands of others have learned and be proud of the accomplishment of actually earning a ticket instead of being handed a gimme. If some of these jokers spent one third of their time learning cw instead of crying like a spoiled little brat who cant get their way, they already would be an extra. Hasnt the hobby been dumbed down enough already? Does the arrl need members that badly as to look the other way and not bother to lobby the FCC to keep the testing we now have? Sickening! I guess the love of money has polluted this hobby like the rest of present day society where the dollar is more important then principles and values. Pathetic!!
My fellow Hams, now lets be honest about this whole "keep the code get rid of the code " thing. A lot has been written about the prose and cons of keeping the code some on both sides rather well written, and some not. I myself have been rather sharp tongued on the subject, and I have received a few interesting responses because of it.
One ham KB9YVG in a obscene response writes
"You think like an old timer.. I learned CW in a three hour seesion when I was around 12. I have no particular in interest in HF. You seem like on of those operators who like to have their daughter (obscene response) when they hit that key. I thought '73 met "please don't do my kid", whoops that must be CB talk."
and another response by KG4YJR writes
"What a moron".
It is obvious to all that the defensive vitriolic responses of the "get rid of the code test "crowd is due to the fact that their argument ,no matter how will crafted, is intellectually dishonest. The truth is (and every one knows this ,both pro and con camps) that some are willing to earn their goal and others are not. You see some think that just because they want something they should get it even if it means cheating (changing the rules). Some of these lazy slothful types will argue in an intellectually dishonest manner that their concern is "saving Ham radio" when in fact they simply lack the desire to spend the energy to pass element one. To these lazy slothful types I ask: Why not be honest? And just say the truth ,come on and repeat after me: "I just don't want to take the five words a minute CW test, so change the rules just for me!".
I do not use CW myself, but I have lived through two element one tests (passed both). I think it is ok to take a five word per minute Morse code test, it's just part of earning your privilege to use HF.
What I don't get is how can one argue that one should receive such without earning it.
Can someone please explain this "even though i don't want to earn something I should get it just because I want it" thing?
Sincerely;
Slow Code General,
KD7KCP
73
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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KG6TKV
Thank you for your enlightenment. I was lost now with this information I can find my way.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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All you liberals are the same, at best profoundly ignorant more often, stupendously moronic, always angry, close minded, big headed, arrogant, self-important, relative moralists asses. And that is seeing "the glass half full"
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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Kent Carroll
KB9YZL writes:
>>While this discussion has been generally interesting, I have to say that NO ONE from the “Pro” side has effectively explained why it is that the “Knowledge of Code” is the “One True Test” for separating “The Men from the Boys” in Ham radio.<<
Kent, stop playing stupid. My point was and is obvious. Here we go one more time, see if you can keep up. The point is simply this:
Some are willing to earn their goal and others are not. You see, some think that just because they want something they should get it (even if it means cheating changing the rules).
Kent, a liberal, will say "give me what i want" or "give anything to anybody just because they" or "i want it". A spoiled brat will say "give me NOW!!", the fact that I have not earned it is irrelevant, a classic liberal trait.
A conservative is willing to earn their goal.
Let me put it in a simple way. One type is a parasite(liberal), the other type is a worker(conservative). A worker just naturally has a well earned ("earend" a nasty word for a parasite) disdain for the parasite. The no code type is the parasite and the pro code type is the worker. I have made my point very clear.
Now if you just can't get the point and post some kind of crap like:
>>While this discussion has been generally interesting, I have to say that NO ONE from the “Pro” side has effectively explained why it is that the “Knowledge of Code” is the “One True Test” for separating “The Men from the Boys” in Ham radio.<<
I will see this as proof that I am engaged in a disputation with a FOOL! As it says in the good book do not aurgue with a fool (liberal).So I'm going to bet that I will not be wasting my time with you anymore.
Sincerely;
slow code general,
KD7KCP
73
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 8, 2004
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All you liberals are the same, at best profoundly ignorant more often, stupendously moronic, always angry, close minded, big headed, arrogant, self-important, relative moralists asses. And that is seeing "the glass half full"
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC2HJN on January 9, 2004
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KD7KCP : Glad to see you having some fun, a little debate it good for people now and then but I'm gonna have some fun and play devils advocate.
After all your blabbering and insults you have done nothing to prove your case. You yourself stated that you passed the morse code test but have not once used it on the air. I would take this to suggest you only took the test because it was required and not because of love for the actual code. It has done nothing for amateur radio for you to have learned it and by not using it, you will eventually forget it. It was therefore a waste for you to have learned it other than for a feeling of personal accomplishment (and it is an accomplishment which you should feel good about).
This personal achievement is great for you, but useless to the ham radio community. That is the whole point. Those who want to use it will, those who don't will not, regardless of the testing requirements.
Granted, some are lazy, but most calling for the elimination of the code test have no objection to making the theory and electronics portions of the test harder. Despite what some may say, morse code is not ham radio....RADIO is ham radio. Yes it has it's uses but so does APRS, packet, EME, satellite,HF fax, slow scan tv, etc, etc..... Should we all be required to demonstrate our proficiency in all modes and techniques before we are issued a license?
The whole debate about code being the only way to get through in a catastrophe is nonsense. If the time comes when the ONLY way to communicate is by morse code, you will be too busy taking care of your radiation burns and scurrying for shelter to care about morse code.
As for the claim that learning code somehow will make you a better operator and more civil, read the posts from all the pro-coders here, yourself included, and judge for youself if there is any difference in attitude between pro & non coders. From what I've read, the most insulting and ignorant comments usually are from the pro side. Yes this is the internet and not ham radio, but a bad attitude is a bad attitude. Here in NYC where there is an abundance of morons, the 2m & 70cm bands are pretty civil and professional despite the fact that there are so many people who don't know code, so it would seem all the crybabies worrying about all the CB wannabes ruining ham radio got it wrong.
You passed the test, congratulations. How has it advanced ham radio?
Oh, and please stop the whole liberal, conservative thing. You sound silly. Are you so brainwashed by the media that you haven't figured out that they are really the same. They argue both sides of an arguement to give the impression of "democracy at work" and then screw you anyway, no matter who wins.
73
KC2HJN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB7YOU on January 9, 2004
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I am so glad to see that someone has reminded us of the Amateur's code. For those that don't know it, here is the whole thing:
The Radio Amateur is:
1. Considerate - never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
2. Loyal - offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs and the ARRL.
3. Progressive - with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.
4. Friendly - slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of amateur spirit.
Balanced - radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.
Patriotic - station and skill always ready for service to country and community.
Written by Paul Segal, W9EEA in 1928.
Now my comments....
We are not living up to this ethic. Here are some examples.
Considerate - we are hams, this is a communication forum. Sure, it's not RF but we are still scoring close to 0% on this. All of us. I've even been guilty of it and I am ashamed.
Loyal - Support wise, these forums are like a desert. Some shining lights and too many snuffers.
Progressive - This is where elmering, history and good licensing requirements come in. The tests are a joke. Use CW, use PSK31, Use SSB as a test requirement but make it a requirement that requires the commitment of the user. This hobby requires commitment to excellence. After all, we can do great good or great harm through ineptness. In addition, just a test is not enough. I hear bad ops on 2m and on HF. Most of the good ops I hear are using NON-voice modes. I'm starting to keep stats on this and I'll let you know what I find. We need to make some real progress here.
Friendly - I don't see this happening here. Note to all new hams, I would love to help you and I am always available to answer questions or help you find a solution to a problem. Reach me direct at kb7you@arrl.net.
Balanced - By the hateful nature of our posts, we most definitely interfere with the community that is eham and ham radio in general. We do it here and on the air. What's the fun in whistling over an ongoing QSO?
Patriotic - So many here seem to be very self centered. Think about yourself. Are you willing to sacrifice time, money and brain sweat for this hobby?
Folks, I believe this is more than a hobby. It is an example of what a group of free and innovative people can do to change the world for the better.
I am a ham because:
1. I can exercise my brain.
2. It's hard.
3. I have the means to mentor and train and share.
4. I can explore experiment and discover.
5. I can meet like-minded people and when I do, I can feel the power of all those smart and challenging people working together.
6. Ham radio is like entering college after being the smartest person in high school. All of a sudden, you see how challenged you can really be.
Let's not remove challenge from radio.
Let's not remove community from radio.
Let's not remove COMMUNICATIONS from radio.
Love this hobby and treat it well. You will be rewarded.
73 to my fellow hams. Hope to hear you on the air.
I'm in Kaysville Utah (DN41aa). Lately I'm on 20m doing CW, PSK31 and SSB. I'm also on 2m doing SSB, Packet and APRS. Alternatively, send me an email (kb7you@arrl.net) I love to talk to fellow hams that have the passion.
73
KB7YOU
Chris Levin - a ham radio operator, Elmer and experimenter.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W3DCG on January 9, 2004
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KD7KCP:
Hey dude, I consider myself a Conservative Liberal, how about that, and if anyone has ever followed code debate threads here ya'll know I'm a militant Pro Coder- in my view it has nothing to do with the "usefulness of CW."
What would bring tears to my eyes is the following press release, or something similar:
In a bizarre anachronistic, some have stated even stubborn and nonsensical fashion, the FCC under extreme pressure from the United States Amateur community, and the ARRL, along with a few other fringe organizations such as FISTS, has decided to raise Morse code testing requirements from the previously token speed of 5 wpm minimum/maximum speed, to a minimum, graduated speed requirement of 5, 13 and 20 wpm.
This is a radical departure from the International world-wide Amateur community, which has recently dropped any Morse testing requirements all together, sighting that Morse code serves no real useful purpose in the current high-tech digital age, and is no longer required by International Treaty.
We were unable to reach any FCC representative for comment, but Jim Haynie, the President of the ARRL, when asked the reasoning behind their position in this very emotional and hotly debated topic within the ham radio fraternity, said,
"CW- known to the rest of the world as Morse Code, has played a key and significant role in the identity of HF Amateur radio, since the inception of all known radio communication. The historical significance of this fact alone, adds a certain immeasurable value to Amateur radio. As a society, if we loose sight of our most widely practiced traditions in general, not only within Amateur radio, we invariably lessen unquantifiable values critical to the overall well-being of said culture. In the long run, this can only serve to weaken the importance and relevance of any culture so inclined to no longer practice traditions which are deeply rooted.
In the case of Morse code and HF Amateur radio- CW is the GENESIS mode, the spark which began all wireless communication as we know it. America may be known as a country of spoiled children, with weak educational standards, but there is still a communications culture comprised of tinkerers and experimenters- that culture is Amateur radio. A self-policing brother/sister-hood that values education and old-fashioned hard work, in an age of Plug and Play-Instant Gratification. This is merely our way to express to ourselves that, no more will we accept watered-down-weakened standards. This is our message to our citizens, and the world- we value our traditions and our history, and the concept of earning our inalienable constitutional rights and privileges.
The succinct answer to the question of 'Why we have increased our Morse testing standards in America,' when the rest of the planet has banished them altogether- IS SIMPLY: Because it is harder."
But that is just the twisted fantasy of a conservatively leaning LIBERAL, Libertarian, FOOL... whatever... talking.
The realist glass half-empy part of me understands that money talks, and if we don't sell radios, we loose out on useful technological developement.
The glass half full part of me says we can still sell radios, without lowering our historically significant STANDARDS, and we can STILL EMBRACE TECHNOLOGY- there are literally TONS of techno savvy CW operators out there up on the latest that digital and computers have to offer in conjuction with wireless long range RF communications. We just have to take CW for what it is, a pain in the arse hill to overcome (resulting in self-respect at the very least), or a WAY TOTALLY COOL communications mode that is highly efficient at speed, A CHALLENGE if you will, and possibly even a blast to use.
Knowing CW has nothing much less to do with usefulness, the only people that use CW are Amateur CW radio operators. It's not very useful at all, but it sure helps QRP.
Regardless- CW requires EFFORT. In the same vein that no one uses Latin anymore, except perhaps in the Vatican, and in the Medical and Biology fields.
To those who would belittle Old Timers who seem moded in CW Only stuck position, hey, whatever floats their boat- let them be, they earned it- and CW was no easier 20 years ago than it is now. In fact, NOW it's much easier, there are all manner of learning tools available for computers that were never available 20 years ago, when the coolest thing since sliced bread was a cassett-tape-drive Radio Shack TRS (we called them Trash) 80, which emitted enough RFI to be heard a quarter mile away.
So a Phone only dude doesn't do CW- but they learned it. It was something accomplished.
So I have no designs on working DX VHF/UHF anytime soon, I'm not whining about why I have to learn all that stuff.
Why are the No Coders not complaining about E6AO3, "What are the majority charge carriers in P-type semiconductor material?"
I mean, in OPERATING A RADIO how does knowing the answer to THAT matter one IOTA?
To be clear, I say keep the question in there. And, keep the Code.
73, from the Liberal who voted for Bush because of the fear I had of having Gore at the helm.
;)
And the devil (humanist) rearing it's ugly head again, the UK was one of, if not THE first to drop code. So what is with the whole King/Queen/Prince thing... is not that outmoded in this day and age? Why have it? Tradition or some similarly outmoded concept?
(points to ponder...just havin'sum fun)
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB7YOU on January 9, 2004
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Hi Sirex,
Maybe we can meet on the air and do some CW together. I'm always looking for fellow slow-coders to help me work on my skillset. If you are interested I can tell you about some of the other neat modes I've been experimenting with. Shoot me an emal. chrislev2001@yahoo.com
73
Chris
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 9, 2004
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> Some are willing to earn their goal and others are
> not. You see, some think that just because they want
> something they should get it (even if it means
> cheating changing the rules).
And when someone who *has* passed element 1, and *can* copy 20wpm, says "the Morse code test isn't serving a useful purpose anymore" and "those who believe Morse code is an important part of the tradition of amateur radio should share that tradition by teaching it, rather than by forcing it upon people" what do you say?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 9, 2004
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> All you liberals are the same, at best profoundly
> ignorant more often, stupendously moronic, always
> angry, close minded, big headed, arrogant, self-
> important, relative moralists asses.
Thomas Jefferson, author of the declaration of independence and champion of the bill of rights, was the quintessential liberal.
I am happy to be counted among those who agree with Mr. Jefferson's political positions.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 9, 2004
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KD7KCP:
Richard, the post of mine that you are quoting out of context didn’t even appear on this thread, and (if memory serves) is something like two months old!
I you have to go digging through the archives to find something to rant about, you need to consider selling a couple of radios so that you can afford to go out and buy a cheap, Chinese made copy of a life!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2ERN on January 9, 2004
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"...always angry, close minded, big headed, arrogant, self-important, relative moralists asses."
Sounds more like a conservative.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 9, 2004
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>>>"the Morse code test isn't serving a useful purpose anymore" and "those who believe Morse code is an important part of the tradition of amateur radio should share that tradition by teaching it, rather than by forcing it upon people"<<<<
AE6IP,
There are many more "traditions" in Amateur Radio than learning code alone.
One of them if I recall correctly is to teach others about the hobby. It does require however that one be required to "listen & learn."
To say Morse Code does not serve a useful purpose is not accurate. While I do agree the "technical usefulness" of CW might not be up to date with the more modern forms of enhanced communications we see demonstrated today;
Morse code is useful in the fact that it serves as both a learning tool and as a vehicle to interact with other like-minded individuals.
Remember back in high school when we asked ourselves, "Why do we need to know all this stuff, I'll never use it." ?
The fact that we have learned something is the real point of it all. It's not always about the content we have learned. It is sometimes more about the interactions we have with other people and their cultural traditions.
To say Morse Code serves no purpose in Amateur Radio is like saying, "Why eat food using a fork?" - "I can just simply use my hands to eat my food? - using forks to consume food serve no purpose..."
Why eat food at all? We can simply have all of our nutritional requirements injected into our bodies using more modern & practical methods of technology to consume food.
Similarly we can say, "Why use CW? We can use HF SSB instead."
This is why CW is more about the cultural interactions & relationship and the traditions of Amateur Radio, rather than simply the technical "usefulness" of this mode.
Amateur Radio is not a bunch of oldfarts from the oldschool. It's about the art of experimentation using various modes of operations, electronics, theories, and so on regardless if they are new or old ways of doing things. The main purpose of Amateur Radio is to experiment and to enhance communications from a technical standpoint. The other part is to promote goodwill amognst others in the community that share in similar interests.
CW mode is merely the traditionaly used vehicle in which there is a common bond, it is not about the mode of operation or it's usefulness.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N2XE on January 9, 2004
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Sirex,
...One more thing you should stop playing with barbie dolls. When in Rome do as the Romans do...
Excellent comeback. Touche'
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7EZE on January 9, 2004
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I used to think this was a ham radio forum, I was mistaken. It appears to be a troll forum, or a flame war forum. It's getting harder to glean the useful info from these forums, because you have to filter out all of the BS. As for all of the posters who hide behind some cute internet "handle", your posts are always overlooked, and have no real meaning to a ham radio forum. What are you trying to hide??? If you signed your posts with a verifiable call sign, I would reconsider, and probably even read them, but you don't even do that, so I just scroll past them looking for useful information. It's nothing personal, as you are quite possibly a good person. I feel that most people who hide behind catchy titles do so just so they can flame other people, without causing defamation to their call sign, if they really do have one. If they don't have a call, or don't have anything positive to add, then they are just TROLLS anyway.
I've climbed down off of my soapbox now, and put on my Binford 5000 Flameproof Suit, so have at it :)
KD7EZE
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA0LYK on January 9, 2004
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I have read all the comments to this article and really fail to see much in the way of constructive ideas.
I passed my cw test in the Kansas City FCC Field Office many years ago. I have never been so nervous or sweated so much. Let me tell you that gave me respect for the license I qualified for. One of the lessons I learned is that it the cw requirement wasn't about the value of it in today's world as a communications mode because even then it was an old mode and am/ssb were much more glamorous.
The value of the cw requirement came from the need to learn something new and become proficent with it. Some of the comments deal with the need for change. Well the cw requirement fits very well with this. Those who want to eliminate the cw requirement for HF priveleges should evaluate the change in their lives that learning cw requires. The need for change doesn't just apply to the arguement that cw is an old mode and testing for profiency in cw is worthless so us old farts should just accept the change of eliminating the cw requirement. It also applies to learning something new, whether it is old (cw) or new (digital audio). You know, the use of logic is funny cause I can just reverse the statements the no-code proponents use in their arguments. Accept the change in your life that learning cw requires because it will require you to learn something new.
Lastly, I would like to challenge the no-code proponents to make some constructive comments about what I should tell young high school students with limited money how to obtain a useful ham station and get on the air. A lot of no-code people sound like folks that would run out and plop down a couple thousand dollars for a rig to get on the air and use ssb. This doesn't help the prospective hams with very limited funds. I have recommended they frequent ebay and try to obtain old transmitters and receivers that can be used for cw. You can easily set up a station for under one hundred dollars by doing this. You can probably even get an audio filter for this kind of money.
Sure the station won't do much on the phone bands where they are so crowded with people running kilowatts. But you know what, these folks can experience the thrill I did just making contacts with minimal equipment. I started out with equipment that young folks won't recognize, a Globe Chief 90a transmitter and an Echophone EC-3 receiver. And you know what, you can still make a lot of cw contacts using them today.
Let's not forget in the debate that cw also allows prospective hams with limited funds to get on the air with a decent station. There is more to the debate than just whether to eliminate an "old" mode just so people can speak on the phone bands. Don't forget the disadvantaged and leave them behind. There are a lot of very smart kids out there from families that just don't have the money to go out and buy even a modestly priced rig. But they can get on the air with cw.
Thanks for the bandwidth!
73
Jim
WA0LYK
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W4PA on January 9, 2004
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>>Why should we consider letting the great unwashed hoard have unfettered access to HF bands "progress"?<<
Because all those drunks screaming obscenities at each other on 75 meter SSB before the advent of the no-code license passed a code test at some point in their lives. How much worse could it be? We're 12 years into the no-code license and coming up on 4 into the reduction of the upgrade requirements and the collapse of the hobby as yet to occur. I doubt it ever will.
The argument over "exams are too easy now" is silly. How many General, Advanced and Extra licensees passed their theory exams with the aid of the Bash books in the late 70's and early 80's? MANY - this was the biggest jump in amateur upgrading that we saw until the license requirements were relaxed in 2000.
I'm a lifelong high speed CW op - and I don't think having to pass a Morse Code test to get a ham license is indicative of intelligence or desire to be involved in the hobby. Keep the CW subbands the way they are, and enjoy the hobby as it is - and as it will be, because later it's going to be different.
Change is inevitable. It'll be good or bad depending on what contribution YOU make to the hobby.
Scott W4PA
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 9, 2004
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It is unfortunate, though predictable, that such quarreling takes place among people who hardly know each other. I used the word "predictable" because the original article was based on unfounded assumptions and generalizations and employed "straw man" arguments. It was predictable that some people would continue in like manner.
Although I've never met any of the hams in this forum, there are several of you with whom I've corresponded privately. Although we don't agree on every issue, we share a mutual respect, and I've learned from each of you.
It is simply ludicrous to attempt to label folks, or try to infer their political positions from the little that is said here in discussing ham radio.
I'd like to add my voice to that of Tom, W8JI, who has been encouraging us to stick to technical discussions, and avoiding emotionally charged personal issues. And, yes-- this includes the code/no-code debates. Although I'm assuredly in the pro-code testing camp, I've acknowledged that I may be wrong-- maybe I don't know what is best for our hobby in the long run, though I do have an opinion about it.
I'd like to think we could discuss what is best for the hobby without personal insults and attacks.
73 & Happy New Year to all,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KT4XF on January 9, 2004
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The Spark Gap has been replaced with PART 15 "compliance"
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by AC7NA on January 9, 2004
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For those of you that don't think a new ham's opinion has merit, pry the key or mike out of your hand and take a minute to acknowledge the realities of life. First impressions are extremely important as newcomers join any group. They are generally unbiased by engrained philosophies, eager to learn from those willing to teach, and have the motivation to see the forest through the trees. Like it or not, they are the future of ham radio....if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
And forget about on-air manners, what ever happened to "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." I rarely browse eHam anymore because of all the newbie bashing that occurs. Give it a rest, guys!
Brian AC7NA
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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While I have your attention, since this appears to be the hot place to be right now. I put a question in the elmers section about radio equipment. Some of you more (extremely more) knowledgable hams might be able to give me some idea about the equipment.
Take a look........go on now........look.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CURMUDGEON on January 9, 2004
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Jim, WA0LYK has it right and his view is largely consistent with a lot of us oldtimers.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 9, 2004
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Kent Carroll
KB9YZL writes:
>>While this discussion has been generally interesting, I have to say that NO ONE from the “Pro” side has effectively explained why it is that the “Knowledge of Code” is the “One True Test” for separating “The Men from the Boys” in Ham radio.<<
Kent, stop playing stupid. My point was and is obvious. Here we go one more time, see if you can keep up. The point is simply this:
Some are willing to earn their goal and others are not. You see, some think that just because they want something they should get it (even if it means cheating changing the rules).
Kent, a liberal, will say "give me what i want" or "give anything to anybody just because they" or "i want it". A spoiled brat will say "give me NOW!!", the fact that I have not earned it is irrelevant, a classic liberal trait.
A conservative is willing to earn their goal.
Let me put it in a simple way. One type is a parasite(liberal), the other type is a worker(conservative). A worker just naturally has a well earned ("earend" a nasty word for a parasite) disdain for the parasite. The no code type is the parasite and the pro code type is the worker. I have made my point very clear.
Now if you just can't get the point and post some kind of crap like:
>>While this discussion has been generally interesting, I have to say that NO ONE from the “Pro” side has effectively explained why it is that the “Knowledge of Code” is the “One True Test” for separating “The Men from the Boys” in Ham radio.<<
I will see this as proof that I am engaged in a disputation with a FOOL! As it says in the good book do not aurgue with a fool (liberal).So I'm going to bet that I will not be wasting my time with you anymore.
Sincerely;
slow code general,
KD7KCP
73
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by HAMDUDE on January 9, 2004
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Alright! Another newbie whos gonna save ham radio! Just what we need, more advice from someone who just fell off the turnip cart.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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I don't think that ham radio needs saved. I think thatit is progressing along just fine. Thank you
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KT4XF on January 9, 2004
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The Spark Gap has been replaced with PART 15 "compliance"
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KT4XF on January 9, 2004
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The Spark Gap has been replaced with PART 15 "compliance"
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by J1MI on January 9, 2004
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No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke....
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD5ZER on January 9, 2004
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I would like to know WHY do some of you DAMN people pick on us cbers.We don't pick on you so just leave us alone.Oh and to KD4AMG us cbers don't always run a lot of power when we don't need it.I use just as much power as i need to carry on a qso(about 20 to 30 watts).I only turn on my pal 500 when i need it for dxing.
73s
from AM:525 ssb:KBS-1723
FM:725
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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Holly Molly,
Thats gonna open up an entirely new can of trolling............ hang on guys and gals. Here comes the attempts to portray a better than anyone thingy..........
73ssssssss
And yes I know there should be no 's',
I just do it to tick you off.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 9, 2004
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NOLICENSEASOFYET,
Hurry up and get your license! :)
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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I am , I am , the next test isn't until Feb something in Quincy... Have to wait.
Then, I gonna lear, Da, Da, Dada.........code....
That was fun.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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Holly Crap, I spelled learn wrong. Maybe I should go to spelling school first, or my morse will be off for sure.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 9, 2004
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KB9YZL
Kent You talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your argument in some of your posts is that CW should be eliminated (making it easer) so as to get more hams into the HF part of the spectrum. This argument is couched in the idea that by doing so this will somehow "save ham radio". In other posts you argue that the written test should be made tougher. This 2nd argument is inconsistent with the first at best, very probably simply intellectually dishonest.
Intellectual dishonesty is the corner stone, the core the unavoidable truth of the "make it so I don’t have to take element one" lazy crowd.
You write in the style of a well behaved civil gentlemen. You love chastising those who speak there mind, those who dare to point out the hypocrisy of your arguments. The truth is you are a hypocrite a simple trouble maker. You write that you have no interest in HF but you have no problem arguing what should be done with HF testing. You have called me names yet you impugn those who point out the truth (sometimes ugly) about you. I have labored and have been successful in completely in succinctly getting my point out but you act stupid,(I know your not) incapable of getting the point. It is my humble opinion, one that you have earned, sir that you are a silly trouble maker, a fool not worthy of the smallest interest let alone a response. Please do not email me again.
Tank You
Richard Ziebol
KD7KCP
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 9, 2004
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Hey,
I have an idea for this code thing..........be patient, and put down that sharp thing whatever it is. How about.....they drop code requirements.....I said put that down, now how are you going to listen when you have that stuff flying out of your mouth.. Sit down.....
Ok, like I was saying, drop code requirements for testing, but make the code testing optional. When someone passes their code test, a specific letter is added to their call sign to aknowledge the fact that they have successfully passed the code test. There as continuing to give the respect deserved to the people that have taken the time to learn and preserve code.
Now come on, you can get up now but leave the sharp thing in the drawer and get a towel for your face. And just think, breath, in with the good air out with the bad... Ok, lets try in with the good air....hold it hold it, crap, get up off the floor, you can breath now. Ok, now try to respond in a friendly manner shall we. You can touch your keyboards now.... No, not you you sit down. The rest of you go ahead.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 9, 2004
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>>>"the Morse code test isn't serving a useful purpose anymore"
> To say Morse Code does not serve a useful purpose is not
> accurate.
Which is why I didn't say it. See that word "test"? I said *element
1* isn't serving a useful purpose. NOT Morse code isn't...
> Remember back in high school when we asked ourselves, "Why do we need
> to know all this stuff, I'll never use it." ?
I never asked myself that in high school.
> Amateur Radio is not a bunch of oldfarts from the oldschool. It's
> about the art of experimentation using various modes of operations,
> electronics, theories, and so on regardless if they are new or old
> ways of doing things. The main purpose of Amateur Radio is to
> experiment and to enhance communications from a technical
> standpoint. The other part is to promote goodwill amognst others in
> the community that share in similar interests.
Indeed. It's a big hobby with lots of ways to enjoy it.
> CW mode is merely the traditionaly used vehicle in which there is a
> common bond, it is not about the mode of operation or it's
> usefulness.
Then Morse should be *shared* rather than forced on people.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 9, 2004
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The way I see it, the written exam can be memorized based on the published questions and answers, so little or no effort is required. On the other hand, the code requirement requires a person to put forth some effort and dedication to learn it. So basically, when the no-coders are saying that they shouldn't have to take the code exam to receive HF privileges, they are either extremely arrogant and think they are better than the rest of us that had to pass the code test, or they are just too lazy and want it for free.... or maybe it's a little bit of both ???
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 9, 2004
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> The way I see it, the written exam can be memorized
> based on the published questions and answers, so
> little or no effort is required.
If this were true, then there would be no general class license holders, as they'd all quickly memorize their way to extra.
> On the other hand, the code requirement requires a
> person to put forth some effort and dedication to
> learn it.
Took me an hour a day over two weeks. Hardly what I would call "dedication" or "effort."
> So basically, when the no-coders are saying that
> they shouldn't have to take the code exam to
> receive HF privileges, they are either extremely
> arrogant and think they are better than the rest of
> us that had to pass the code test, or they are just
> too lazy and want it for free.... or maybe it's a
> little bit of both ???
Or, more likely, none of the above.
Morse code is a fun mode. I can copy 20wpm. I'm a VE and an ARRL CI & CM. I've been involved in radio for nearly 30 years. I, like most of the people behind the NCVEC petition, have nothing personal to gain from element 1 being removed. And yet, I can see no good reason for the FCC to keep the element 1 requirement.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 9, 2004
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Remember back in high school when we asked ourselves, "Why do we need
> to know all this stuff, I'll never use it." ?
I never asked myself that in high school.
Now you are just plain acting abnormal...lol
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 9, 2004
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>>>>Holly Crap, I spelled learn wrong. Maybe I should go to spelling school first, or my morse will be off for sure. <<<<
... And a nice "Holly Crap" to you too this year. May the yuletide splendor and the ring of the new year bring you many more hollies and jollies.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
(Now that's what I call holly crap) :)
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 9, 2004
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Well, I hope you can save ham radio. When I got EMT training, I was told....your not going to save the world!
Problem as I see it, are lack of real ham clubs.
This is where the Newbie and O.T. worked together.
I see now why it so easy for E-bi--h slapping to occure.
This thread is sooooooo derivitive of a thread by a K1 newbie chris. But hey you will learn.
Good luck in your journey of ham radio.
73 DE MIKE
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 9, 2004
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>>> Remember back in high school when we asked
>>> ourselves, "Why do we need to know all this
>>> stuff, I'll never use it." ?
>> I never asked myself that in high school.
> Now you are just plain acting abnormal...lol
Yeah, I guess you're right. Common sense, such as recognizing that not everything is rational, is pretty abnormal. ;)
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 10, 2004
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KD7KCP:
Richard;………….Let’s set the record straight. NOWHERE in this entire thread did I address a remark to you, prior to you opening the exchange.
Yes, in the past I have questioned the reasoning for using Code proficiency as a test criteria. I am not alone in asking that question.
Am I one of those lazy, ‘want-it-all-for-nothing” types?…..No. If you had read my previous posts as thoroughly as you profess, you would have noted several points:
1) I already know Code.
2) I have no interest in “HF Privileges”.
3) I am in favor of more stringent technical testing.
I emailed you because I am completely baffled regarding the reason for this personal vendetta you seem to have in my case. I didn’t feel that that sort of discussion was appropriate for a general forum. (These threads are unpleasant enough!) Apparently, you feel the need for an audience, since you chose to reply here, rather than in a simple, private, man-to-man conversation.
In all my posts to this site, I have said NOTHING that I would not have said to you in a face to face conversation: Can you honestly make the same claim?
You are entirely within your rights to dislike me, and my position. There is nothing I can do about that. I do, however, feel very sorry for you, if my opinions and position have become such a significant issue to you that you need to resurrect old posts from other threads to misquote and re-hash. There should be much more important issues and interests in your life.
In spite of your hostility and slanders, I wish you well, and a happy and prosperous New Year.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WPSP389 on January 10, 2004
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Don't sweat it Kent... I have decided that you cant please everyone all of the time.
Everyone will always have their own interpretations of things anyways...
Some are grateful you respect them enough to email them offline, some are outright offended at the audacity of making such an attempt. go figure...
It's the human condition of the times we are living in.
73
Charles - KC8VWM / WPSP389
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8MMZ on January 10, 2004
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Well - got into the code vs. no-code debate rather quickly gents?
Guess I'll throw my two bits in - a little preable though so I'm not accused of "not paying my dues". I obtained the General Class the middle-old fashioned way at 13WPM code (I think it used to be higher in the early/mid eighties), and was well on my way to reach the 20WPM exam (in fact I was solid copy at 24WPM thanks to many hrs CW at field day), but military and college happened, so I did not go after it.
Now some time back, CW was still used by the merchant marine, so as a practical measure, there was a necessity to have a "trained pool of operators" waiting in the wings in case we had to bring back the liberty ships, &ec. to save our NATO buddies in a fight against the CCCP. However, when the MM dropped CW, that need for a reserve pool of CW ops went as well.
I agree - that if it comes down to the point where hand-sent and human deciphered CW is the ONLY mode that will go through, we are in a bad enough situation where communication will no longer be necessary (cockroaches, termites, and fireants will be the only inhabitants of earth). So CW as a PRACTICAL mode is by all means dead (but it is the only mode I use, I've also been known to wear the old "If it ain't CW it's just CB" hat at hamfests - I test out the mic. every now and then to make sure it works). And gents, I really hate to say that about my old friend, CW!
But, I also agree that we need some type of "gate" to uphold technical standards. So why not some form of compromise. How about a good old fashioned, un-published, Professional Engineer (or PhD. prelim) type of exam in lieu of the CW exam? One would still need to take the other written, published pool questions as well, since they contain the "legalities". Now this would create two routes of access to the HF bands - either you take and pass the CW exam, or you take and pass the "Qualification" exam (You would still have the other written elements in both cases).
Certainly a very robust technical exam could serve as a good gate-keeper, and also allow for the more technical folks (EE's, etc...) a way in (By the way - speaking as an engineer now, I would not learn the code if I didn't see the practical utility of it. I learned it when I was a kid, when my mind wasn't clouded with engineering ambition). The older, battle hardened EE's and technical folks don't want to have to sit in for an exam that simulates a mode of communication that serves no practical purpose!
I too am afraid that many will slip through the cracks that have poor operating practices, among a multitude of other sins to the old ham radio community (and I consider myself old guard) - but just like the Deacons in the church, it's our job to find those strays and help them get in line (because maybe they don't know any better). Those of us that appreciate the rich history and deeper purpose of ham radio still have a role to play - so we should stop talking about our latest prosthetic device, hemmhoroid removal, or other medical ailement - and we shoud start taking more "newbies" under our wing! We should do this in a gentle manner - rather than telling them to shut-up because they are greenhorns and lack experience - it is our job to give them that experience!
One day the CW requirement will prob. go away - like it or lump it! And it really won't be our fault if a bunch of scum get into the hobby and on the HF bands - but the blame will fall on us if they (lids) remain scum!
Bk to u.
73's
N8MMZ
Jonathan
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WPSP389 on January 10, 2004
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>>>Yeah, I guess you're right. Common sense, such as recognizing that not everything is rational, is pretty abnormal. ;) <<<
AE6IP,
There you go making me think again...
Have a good weekend
73
Charles KC8VWM / WPSP389
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WPSP389 on January 10, 2004
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N8MMZ Jonathan ,
That was very well written. It was deserving of recognition. I enjoyed your comments.
73
Charles KC8VWM /WPSP389
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD5ZER on January 10, 2004
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I can't believe no one added any comments on my pal 500,my dxing,or my fm on 11 meter
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD5ZER on January 10, 2004
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hay!curmudogeon why don't you post with your call.i admit that run illeagle power and use fm on 11 meter and post with my call so why can't you
(sorry if i misspelled some words in some of my posts.i'm only 14,i am not a spelling geneus!)
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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<<<I can't believe no one added any comments on my pal 500,my dxing,or my fm on 11 meter>>>>>
OK,I will comment. What you did in the past was illegal. Some hams went your route. I started with a 5W 3 channel CB H-t in the late 1960's.
Even the most horrible felonies have a statute of limititations. Except A felonies like murder.
What you did was not even an E feloney. The founding fathers felt that no man should be punished, after 5-7
years after said conduct. They believed in redemption.
So why are you calling attention to a radio chapter in your life.
You got off your duff and get your ticket. Many do not and cause such harmfull interference, they can be slapped with an E feloney.
So you wanted someone to comment on your illegal activites. I just did. My advice to you is not to brag about it on EHAM. Some of the O.T.'s are bitter and are
ARCHIE BUNKER like in thinking.
If you are still freebanding, well it is russian roulett with a fully loaded automatic (gun joke).
peace 73 DE MIKE
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 10, 2004
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Kent
Ok you want to go "man to man"
The truth is that I wish hf testing would always have a CW element to it. I think that it gets some hams that would never use it, once introduced, use it. I think all this crap about a ham who passes a Morse code test is somehow going to operate more politely is just that, crap. I can not recall a time when operating with no code techs on two meters or 440 that someone has been a ass. I can recall several times on 80 meters encountering arrogant rude hams, that are on some sort of power trip and these guys have passed some old cw test (20 wpm or something like that). I think the idea that ham radio has to be saved by eliminating the CW test is a load of crap. I think that all this arguing on both sides of this pro con CW is for the most part a bunch of crap. True CW will get through when ssb will not most of the time and some can afford a simple CW rig and not a ssb rig. But I have never read a argument from the con CW test crowd that had any validity. The truth is that most all who want to drop the CW test just don't want to take the test. I have not read all of your post I just read some of them, enough to see you as a hypocrite. The whole dumb down testing to get more hams into radio and then later writing about making the testing harder thing. Writing about what hf testing should be but not using hf. What you do is argue in a polite way; what you are saying is wrong. You are slick, you argue on the side of this "I don’t want to earn my way so change the rules" crowd but you act like your just a nice guy. This is what I can not stand, this slick political maneuvering. This whole CW debate can be scene as small model of our society, in fact im afraid that is exactly how I see it. I see it as two basic camps, one camp are the parasites, the other is the workers. Lets take the parasites first and how they and their lobbyist have worked so earnestly and so effectively and above all completely selfishly at the expense of our society. These people will argue that the criminal is never personally responsible. Now there you go, one of the core elements of liberalism, a lack of personal responsibly. Another core element of liberalism is to lower the bar if one lacks the desire to spend the energy to accomplish a goal, then hey, lets make it easier for these lazy slothful types, it's ok. Where at one time striving for excellence was a good thing, it has now been replaced by accommodating and rewarding those who are lazy and not willing to earn their way. The havoc this reeks upon our society is evident everywhere. People who have not earned their station in business, in life, but are placed there through entitlements, are a drain to our society in countless ways. I cannot help but see a true and profound parallel between the parasites, their lobby, the liberals, and this change the rules so I don’t have to take the CW test crowd. The workers on the other hand, are willing to, well, work. They are willing to sacrifice, to strive, to earn their goal. This group of people (I know im taking some liberty here, im simplifying and generalizing in order to make my point, however this does not cheapen or nullify my argument because it is the truth ) are the ones who made this society great, these are the people you can depend on, these are also the people being victimized by the parasites and their lobby, the liberals. Let me ask you this, in the middle of a disaster where all modern lines of communication have been broken and lives hang in the balance, who would you rather have at that radio station? (Some call a hobby, others a service), some whiny lazy slothful incompetent type, who got there through entitlement, who got there because they whined effectively, threw a tantrum until, just to shut them up they got what they wanted ( the ones you lobby for ) or would you rather have the competent operator, the worker, the one who earned his ticket. So for me, unfortunately, I see this pro con CW thing as a greater issue than it really is, and I feel strongly about it, and I see you as frankly, vermin, because you argue the liberals argument. As I have said before I think that almost all of the arguments on both sides of the CW testing thing is silly, its intellectually dishonest; many of these hinge on the idea that getting rid of the CW test will save ham radio, or that keeping the CW test will ensure knowledgeable courteous hams who will operate with a proper amount of decorum. I think this is all folly, for me, to put it simply, I see it and am somewhat embarrassed to admit it, as your basic good versus evil argument. I see you as being just like the slick flimflam man, peddling the destruction of our society, with a smile on your face and acting like your "just a good guy", not understanding why someone would take exception with you. Now I realize that the pro con CW debate is a relatively small thing, compared to some of the larger ideas I have put forth in this posting, and I also realize that I have been rude, and I have said some unnecessary things in the past, and for that I apologize to you and everyone else I have offended. That being said, do not think for one second, that I would not tell you to your face what I have written, nor would I ever pass up an opportunity to shed the light of truth upon a scumbag liberal. I do at every opportunity, face to face. This is my duty as an American citizen, this is my duty, this is what I owe to all who have shed sweat, blood, and tears; to all that have sacrificed to make this country great. I beg your forgiveness, for being such a hard ass, and attacking you personally about this CW thing. This whole keep Element one, or eliminate it, is just not that important. My problem is I just get to excited about it.
Sincerely,
Richard Ziebol
KD7KCP
73
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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Hey J1Mi, I live right near electric ladyland recording studio'z. Used to see all sorts of famous rock bands pull thier limo's up thier.
You never got back to me on a pre-CBS FENDER left handed stratocaster made before 1963. They want like $8000 for them on ebay. You were always good about thoughing strats into the audiance.(most of them were smashed however)
Built a reverbotron. A company is reproducing your fuzz box using sckottkty diodes for a more of the Tube over drive sound.
Yeah..The winds are still cryin mary.
Finally finished how to play the lead riff on Voodoo child.
Got purple haze down pat.
Yeah,no body is up in this earth!
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by DBCOOPER on January 10, 2004
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WELCOME! I am very sorry to see your reception from some 1X2's who I know are have a pattern of being nasty no-it-alls!
Some are a bunch od ARRL official wanna-be's
Some are just resting on their history.
IT IS AGAINST THE HAM RADIO CODE, for the way you have been treated! I have found that a greater percentage of vanity call sign hams are too selfish!
They would rather condemn then teach! That makes em a bunch of chumps in my book.
It is easy for these know it all chumps to be nasty
on line. That is because they are cowards. They would have not said the same thing to your face.
They words of condemnation are to be shunned.
If they are not willing to put their money where thier ticket is, and welcome you in, they should re-read the amatuers code of 1929.
Balanced-damn some have 10 rigs in thier shack and use AM broadcast like towers.They just complain how everybodys rig is dirty.
Friendly-No brainer on this thread!
Loyal to the U.S.-I think all of us are. However some think that their veterans or even reserve status makes them better than other hams!
I happen to know of a few scientist's in ham radio that work on sensitive matters. They keep thier mouth shut. Yet some of these guys have a sense of humor!
That is also lacking, a sense of humor!
Some EHAMS found the balance of being kind to Newbies, being state of the art, and will make you laugh so hard
you will puke!
My policy is never to drop calls. The hams that live the code know who they are.
How dare you hams that have been around stomp on someones dreams. You might be turning up daisys, when this guy may invent something!
We all had our dreams when that first yellow ticket that said NOVICE on it! Double shame on some of you O.T.'s
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 10, 2004
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Quote: " Don't sweat it Kent... I have decided that you cant please everyone all of the time.
Everyone will always have their own interpretations of things anyways...
Some are grateful you respect them enough to email them offline, some are outright offended at the audacity of making such an attempt. go figure...
It's the human condition of the times we are living in.
73
Charles - KC8VWM"
You have no idea how prophetic these statements are, nice work Charles.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 10, 2004
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Mike:
Perhaps the science fiction community had it right all along....kill off everyone at age 30 during Carousel. That way there'd be no old timers to harass the young pups.
Only problem is, you and I would become dog meat.
Philip
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 10, 2004
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KD7KCP;
Richard, ………Thank you for taking the time to explain. I have a much fuller understanding of the situation now.
I’ll honor your request and respond here, rather than by email. (This thread is already so long and full of “potholes” that I’m sure no one will notice.)
Please believe me when I say that I have no love for the current social trend that bears the name of “Liberalism”. Two hundred years ago, men like Thomas Jefferson were called “Liberals”; but when I examine his life, and compare it to the lives of modern Liberals, it is clear to me that the very meaning of the word has changed over time.
I applaud your willingness to speak out on the current “sickness”. I share your disgust. I’m tired of hearing about the government subsidizing some guy’s mortgage because he’s from a “deprived” minority, while my bank is on the phone if the check is five days late. I see red every time I watch someone pull out the Food Stamps to pay for a cart full of steaks and pricey junk food, while my own cart features more than it’s share of ground beef. Yes…..You’re right……our “Welfare State” is nothing less than a rapidly growing disaster.
The personal problem between the two of us is, I think, due to the fact that the “Code/No Code” debate isn’t a 100% accurate litmus test for Liberalism. It makes me smile to be called a Liberal, particularly when most of my friends and family think that my politics are just slightly to the right of Darth Vader! The reason I have the “wrong” point of view on the Code/No Code issue is because of how I got into Amateur Radio.
I got into Amateur Radio because of my participation in the college’s fieldwork. Back in the early days of the program, we used CBs for vehicle-to-vehicle communication, and they sucked! (Sorry about the vulgarism, but there is really no other word for it!) After one particularly bad moment, caused by poor communications equipment, and a 500 watt Trucker bleeding all over half the band, we decided that we needed something better.
Our Instructor, who was a Ham, said that several of us had to get Ham Licenses. I dutifully got the book, studied it for about two weeks, and passed the test for No Code Tech. Prior to that time, I had never had an interest in Amateur Radio. I viewed the license and our new 2 meter sets in a strictly utilitarian light:………..Then, a strange thing happened……..I was given the task of setting up and maintaining the com gear, and I began to have fun with the stuff.
I am now into antenna design, and I am just getting started in Amateur TV (also mobile). My world is still 144MHZ and up, and I still have no interest in HF operation. (From my point of view;…who wants to deal with huge mobile antennas, with loading coils the size of New Jersey?)
My viewpoint probably seems sacrilegious and profane to many “Traditional” Hams, but they have to understand that not everyone arrived here by the same route. If I have the “wrong” view on the Code/No Code issue, it’s because I value technical expertise more highly than memorizing Code. This is due to the background I am coming from. If you guys really feel Code is important enough to merit all the rhetoric seen here and other places, that’s fine with me. I am certainly not going to insist on changes to an environment that I don’t intend to frequent! All I have ever done is ask to have the logic of the various positions explained……and that only out of curiosity. (If a poorly turned phrase made it seem otherwise, that was not my intent.)
I agree that learning Code just isn’t that bad. I learned it 45 years ago as a boy scout, but I haven’t used it seriously since then. Since I have no plans to “Upgrade”, I suspect that that trend will continue.
If anything, it’s the FCC’s fault! Back when our problem came up, if they had offered a 50 watt business band permit that was good nation wide, and into Canada and Mexico, we probably wouldn’t even be talking now!
Again, thank you for explaining your position!
73
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD5RGJ on January 10, 2004
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I'M AN "OLD" NEW HAM AND NEVER THOUGHT 2 CENTS ABOUT USING CW, BUT NOW I AM WORKING ON "RELEARNING " IT AND HAVE BOUGHT A STRAIGHT KEY WHERE I CAN START FROM THE BOTTOM
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 10, 2004
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Quote: " Again, thank you for explaining your position!
73
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL "
Kent, you are just too nice of a guy, please don't misunderstand me, it's an admirable quality for sure, but I just don't see how you do it sometimes. At any rate, my hat is off to you for your civility, and gentlemanly behavior. Yours is a hard act to follow, I try not to let things get personal, I really do, but I won't take any crap from folks either. If they want to play hardball, I can step up to the plate if necessary, although I prefer not to most of the time. All the best to you in the future.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 10, 2004
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Posted by by KD5RGJ on January 10, 2004:
"I'M AN 'OLD' NEW HAM AND NEVER THOUGHT 2 CENTS ABOUT USING CW, BUT NOW I AM WORKING ON 'RELEARNING' IT AND HAVE BOUGHT A STRAIGHT KEY WHERE I CAN START FROM THE BOTTOM"
Spencer, we are in the same boat. I learned code in 2000 to upgrade to General, with no intentions of ever using it. Last summer I decided to relearn it because I want to use it on the air. It was the controversy brought about by WRC 2003 that motivated me. This is one of my arguments for maintaining Element 1 testing. If we have to learn it for a license upgrade, we may use it now, or we may use it years down the road. If we don't have to learn it for a license upgrade, most won't bother learning it. If you already learned code and forgot it, it is much easier to relearn it than it is to learn it from scratch. Also, you know that if you already learned it for a test, you know that you can learn it again. If you never learned it, you may not even try for fear that you won't be able to master it.
I am at the proverbial 10 wpm plateau. Although I practice daily, I can't seem to break through. I refuse to give up. I will persist until I am doing at least 20 wpm.
Anyone can learn code, and anyone can increase their speed. The key is to persist, and not give up, no matter how hopeless it seems. If you want it bad enough, you will do it.
I also have a straight key, but I prefer a paddle and electronic keyer. My radio has a keyer built it. My paddle is homebrew. See http://www.eham.net/articles/7114
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AD6WL on January 10, 2004
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When I was first studying for my license I saw no need to learn CW. I didn’t complain about it. I just learned the required material to get my license. After getting my General class license I quickly forgot about operating CW and could only be found on the phone portions of the band. After about three months I decided to try a little bit of CW. Since then I have had an enormous amount fun operating CW and have been increasing my speed by enjoying QSOs with other hams that operate at my speed. I have never had any trouble finding other hams who would answer my slower CQs. Right now my speed is up to about 15wpm and I will eventually get up over 20wpm but it takes time.
I don’t believe that learning the code at 5wpm was an obstacle in obtaining my license. Had it not been for the element 1 exam I may have never learned what a great mode CW is. I see learning the code at 5wpm as nothing more than an introduction to the mode and not really showing mastery of it. I hope that we keep the morse code exam at least for the Extra class license. Without it many new hams will never be introduced to CW. It was like in college or high school when you had to take all those useless classes that you will never use. Later in life we find that some of that stuff we learned is useful.
73, Jim
AD6WL
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WR8D on January 10, 2004
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Lord have mercy!
What a waste of time and space!
John WR8D
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 10, 2004
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by AD6WL on January 10, 2004:
"It was like in college or high school when you had to take all those useless classes that you will never use. Later in life we find that some of that stuff we learned is useful."
You bet. When I was in electronics school, I found myself using all that "useless" algebra, logarithms, geometry and trigonometry that I learned in high school that I thought I'd never use.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AD6WL on January 10, 2004
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by AG4RQ on January 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
“I am at the proverbial 10 wpm plateau. Although I practice daily, I can't seem to break through. I refuse to give up. I will persist until I am doing at least 20 wpm.”
I had written my reply before reading yours. I guess great minds think alike. You may want to check out an article that I wrote earlier. It may help you increase speed. It would at least introduce you to a lot of people who operate at slower speeds.
http://www.eham.net/articles/5392
73, Jim
AD6WL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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Hey guys, this seems to have turned into a ""NEWBIE''
forum. Cut them some slack,because they are new!
The vitriolic responses to a fellow human being and ham. I think that is just plain old rude!
C'mon we were all Newbies once! We all had less then perfect idea's of ham radio.We all wanted to change something. I have to admit I did not want to have to pass the 13WPM for HF phone.
This is the response and welcome they get after crawling ot of that RF cesspool called 11M!
Some of you are no ambassadors of the good will of ham radio!!! Rather flame me...ignore this newbie post.
IMO, newbies get a rough ride on EHAM!
Peace MIKE M.S.B.M.E.
How knows, you might be emailing a child that just got their ticket! If that is the case I could give a rats sigmound colon what experience you have!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W6NNABE on January 10, 2004
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Let me ask a question: what is so important about one particular mode (admittedly the most historically significant one) compared to, say, understanding proper overall operating procedures and RF technology in general?
I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but the ITU doesn't seem to think code is important compared to other matters. You "know-coders" strike me as nothing more than territorial cranks -- seems to me being respectful of your fellow hams and understanding why you need a satellite or other reflector to DX on UHF would be far more indicative of someone's worthiness to be a ham than their ability to copy code at so many wpm.
/KB1KKC
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W6NNABE on January 10, 2004
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Let me ask a question: what is so important about one particular mode (admittedly the most historically significant one) compared to, say, understanding proper overall operating procedures and RF technology in general?
I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but the ITU doesn't seem to think code is important compared to other matters. You "know-coders" strike me as nothing more than territorial cranks -- seems to me being respectful of your fellow hams and understanding why you need a satellite or other reflector to DX on UHF would be far more indicative of someone's worthiness to be a ham than their ability to copy code at so many wpm.
/KB1KKC
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by AG4RQ on January 10, 2004
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To Jim (AD6WL):
I read your article at http://www.eham.net/articles/5392, along with all the replies. Thanks. I will check out the Yahoo group and the FISTS buddy program. I already knew about FISTS and the buddy program. I just didn't get around to filling out the FISTS buddy program form yet. Most hams suggest on-the-air practice to gain speed and proficiency. I need to get on the air with CW and get started. I practice and drill daily with Morse University and Nu-Morse software. I do a lot of CW copying on the air, but unfortunately, most of it is too fast for me to effectively copy, except for the W1AW code practice broadcasts. I have not yet gotten up the nerve to call CQ. I've practiced calling CQ a lot. I can call CQ at up to 25 wpm, but can only copy at between 9 and 11 wpm. I am not whining or complaining. I realize that this will take a lot of determination, endurance, patience and practice. I am prepared to have and give all of these.
73 de AG4RQ
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CURMUDGEON on January 10, 2004
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The entire debate over the merit or lack of merit of cw has worn down many of us. Many of the arguements in favor have come from the older, experienced camp, while many of the arguements against have come from the "newbie" camp. Citing several instances in which this or that service has discontinued the use of cw, the "newbies" offer arguements that cw is archaeic, old fashioned, no longer practical. They use such arguements, often advanced arrogantly, to undermine a licensing requirement that represents and constitutes the only real effort required to obtain an amateur license. Because they do not have a good grasp on the historical perspective of amateur radio, and in fact do not often really understand the underlying nature of amateur radio, the arrogant ignorance with which they advance their opinions often provokes an adverse reaction in older, more experienced amateurs. This is then pointed to as ample evidence of the abundance of old, mean spirited, unbending, unchanging, men who dominate amateur radio. This "old element" then becomes the "enemy" who must be wrestled with in order to "save amateur radio".
The truth about cw is that it is a narrowband mode of communications and it enjoys its popularity principally because it is very effective. Figures of up to 13 db greater effectiveness than ssb voice transmissions are often bantered around. Lets use a nice round figure of 10 db as an example that likely is very close to the truth. It means that an ssb station running 1000 watts output enjoys the same communications effectiveness as a similiarly equipped 100 watt output cw station, assuming the antenna systems to be equal and the propagation to be the same. Assuming a bandwidth of 3 khz. for a typical ssb transmission and 50 hz. for a typical cw signal, one can easily recognize the cw signal for its "much greater" practicality. Not only is it more effective than ssb as far as power goes; it is also more effective at preservation of spectrum, allowing many more signals to be accomodated within a given slice of spectrum, simultaneously. And when conditions are poor or propagation isn't up to par, or when the path is so difficult that it does not or perhaps seldom supports ssb communications, cw if often the only means for communications. By and large, newcomers don't know about these virtuous characteristics of cw. Once upon a time, when the novice license was "the" entry point into amateur radio, it was commonly understood and recognized. When the Technician license became the entry point, that fact largely fell into obscurity.
In the above example of the disparity in effectiveness of voice versus cw communications, we don't even consider how much less effective FM and AM voice is than SSB. However, because FM is only allowed at the high end of 10 meters and higher up in the spectrum, its a clear indication that the FCC recognized that it is relatively spectrum inefficient and therefore much too broad to be used in the narrow MF and HF bands. I myself would never use AM again in those bands because of its relative inefficiency, however I won't condemn those who resort to it out of a sense of nostalga.
We hear a lot today about CC&R's and how lots of hams are unable to erect reasonably efficient antennas. Imagine all the attic dipoles, ground mounted verticals with no radials(or perhaps just a few).Imagine all the short, low, inefficient, antennas that are daily pressed into service by amateurs. Those who do not use cw or some other narrow bandwidth mode, are necessarily handicapped by that lack of use. Not everyone can have a tall tower in the yard with high gain antennas. But everyone who switches from a wideband to a narrowband mode can immediately benefit, regardless of their antenna(s).
CW is very practical. There are those who believe that cw has been largely passed by "the digital modes". This is mostly myth. PSK31 is one mode that is widely believed by newcomers to have replaced cw in effectiveness. However, oldtimers who can hear well and who are proficient in the use of cw clear down into the noise will tell you that PSK31 approaches but does not equal cw. Furthermore, on auroral paths it falls on its face. And many of us cw ops will not turn our stations over to computers. We prefer to remain in control of our stations, doing both the encoding and deciding of our signals ourselves, so as to remain the operators of our stations, not just bystanders and spectators.
When you attack our beloved cw, you are attacking us, and you are often doing it from a position of ignorance. To do so is to undermine your position and to create a lot of disrespect for your opinions as newcomers. Its easy to therefore slap you with venomous comments.
There are many,many worthy periodicals and books written about and for the amateur. Newcomers should be encouraged to seek out these. A few really good ones are the Radio Amateurs Handbook, ARRL Antenna Manual, and The Radio Amateur's Operating Manual. These 3 publications contain the answers to many,many questions that newcomers have and the questions that most of the rest of us will likely ever ask. Any ham worth his salt ought to have all 3 and refer to them regularly.
In summation: To be critical of cw without any operating experience with it, is to foolishly assert an opinion about something you know nothing about. If
you want to improve the results you achieve with your amateur station, and you're not using cw, you are holding yourself back from a wonderful experience, kind of like the monkey who can't withdraw his hand from the cage because he can't understand that it is the act of clutching the banana that holds him captive.
Nothing advanced in this post is against experimentation, or advancement of the radio art. Few amateurs are against the advancement of the radio art. With age, maturity and experience, you too will likely reach the point that you'll recognize the difference between advancement and snake oil. And someday you too may reach the point that you'll be sad to see snake oil peddlers discontinue trying to sell it to your generation and instead begin selling it to the generation comming behind you. Everything touted as new isn't. Everything touted as virtuous isn't. Sometimes change is good, often it isn't and change for the sake of change almost always isn't good. Ask someone who knows the joke about the non-conformist bird to tell it to you. Its worthy of committing to memory for life.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AG4RQ on January 10, 2004
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Posted by W6NNABE (KB1KKC) on January 10, 2004:
"Let me ask a question: what is so important about one particular mode (admittedly the most historically significant one) compared to, say, understanding proper overall operating procedures and RF technology in general?
I mean, maybe I'm missing something, but the ITU doesn't seem to think code is important compared to other matters. You "know-coders" strike me as nothing more than territorial cranks -- seems to me being respectful of your fellow hams and understanding why you need a satellite or other reflector to DX on UHF would be far more indicative of someone's worthiness to be a ham than their ability to copy code at so many wpm."
CURMUDGEON speaks words of wisdom. Brian (KB1KKC), you're a brand new ham. The ink on your license has barely had a chance to dry. Try to look at things objectively with an open mind. CW is an important part of ham radio. Hopefully you will realize this some day.
I could relate to a lot of what CURMUDGEON had to say. I am one of those CC & R challenged hams. I use a loaded 40m dipole shortened to 16' on my fourth floor balcony with ladder line and a tuner. Phone contacts do not come easy. I am looking forward to having the playing field evened out by using CW.
As for where I stand with CW, struggling at about 10wpm, something is wrong with the system if an Extra like myself is struggling with CW. This is the result of substituting a codeless Technician license for the traditional Novice license as the entry-level ham ticket. The Novice license was designed to give entry-level hams the on-the-air CW practice and experience necessary to prepare them for their upgrade to General and beyond. The first step in undermining the traditional system was Novice enhancement in 1987. Prior to that, Novices had no phone privileges at all on HF. This literally forced them to hone their CW skills. If Novices wanted to make contacts on the air, they had to do it using CW. Then came the no-code Technician license in 1991 to take center stage as the entry-level ham license. Now, the no-coders are pushing to have Morse testing eliminated altogether.
Below is part of an e-mail that I sent another ham in reply to some questions regarding the code issue:
As for if I really feel the FCC will maintain a CW test for U.S. hams, I hope so. If you have been following my many posts on this subject both on eHam and QRZ, you know that I strongly favor retaining Morse testing for General and Extra, while still making provisions for limited codeless HF access.
As for the petitions, I responded to all 13 indicating my desire for the retention of Morse proficiency testing for General and Extra, while providing limited access to HF for Technician class licensees (codeless). I strongly favor the FISTS proposal, but I could go either way regarding increasing the testing speed for Extra to 12 wpm or leaving it at 5.
I am fully aware of petition commenting being slanted in favor of abolition. That is mostly due to the grass roots movement among the NCI crowd, as well as no-coders in general. Also to blame for that is coded hams coming out in favor of abolition, as well.
Dropping the Morse proficiency requirements will prove over time to be a serious irrevocable mistake. I hope the United States doesn't have to find this out the hard way. The bar has been lowered too much already. It is time to draw the line. The countries across the pond that dropped their Morse requirements will realize their mistake when enough time passes. I have posted to several forums where some hams have said that the US will be the last country to drop Morse testing, that it isn't so. The countries that will never drop their Morse testing requirements are the communist countries and former communist countries. The former Soviet Union realized the importance of Morse code a long time ago, and instilled its importance into their military and their civilian populations; and into every country they had influence over. Hence, mark my words, the following countries will never remove Morse proficiency testing from their requirements for an amateur radio license:
Russia, all the former Soviet republics, all the former Eastern Bloc (Warsaw Pact) nations, China, North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam. I am also betting that none of the Muslim nations will drop their Morse testing requirements either.
Here's a tid bit of information. Some time ago, I downloaded a list of frequencies used by aeronautical mobiles. It's an old list, as it was made when Russia was still the Soviet Union. Here is a copy and paste of the list. Notice which countries were listed as using CW?
HF Aircraft Frequencies
This is a list of HF frequencies normally used for commercial
aircraft operations. All transmissions use USB, unless otherwise
noted. These frequencies are used while the aircraft are beyond
VHF line-of-sight of the area air traffic control stations. Flights
on transoceanic routes are typically out of VHF range for most of
the trip, and therefore rely very heavily on HF communications for
instructions from the air traffic control (ATC) centers.
I have listed the International Civil Aviation Organization
frequencies first. These channels relay ATC information, and the
aircraft typically report position, upper level weather conditions,
and so on. The most common language will be English.
You will hear exchanges that go something like this:
"New York, New York, Speedbird 94."
"Speedbird 94, New York, go ahead."
"Speedbird 94, position 34 North, 018 West at 1835. Flight level
390. Estimating Trout at 1925. SELCAL BRAVO ALFA SIERRA WHISKEY.
Static air minus 42, winds 256 diagonal 30."
This might be confusing at first, but it's really pretty simple.
Speedbird 94 ("niner four") is the aircraft's callsign. Most will ID
their company name and flight number. British Airways use Speedbird
and Pan Am use Clipper for calls. They give a position report along
with the time at which they passed that position, then give their alti-
tude. Flight level 390 is 39,000 feet. They estimate their next
"waypoint," in this case a point labeled TROUT on an aeronautical chart,
at which time they will check in again. A SELCAL (SELective CALling) is
a set of tones that will break the squelch on the aircraft's radio. When
the ATC wants to contact the aircrew, they send the SELCAL, and the crew
are alerted that they have traffic. Otherwise, the crew don't want to
listen to all the chatter on frequency. Finally, they give temperature,
wind speed and direction at their position.
The second list involves long-distance operations control
frequencies, which typically will have airline company information,
phone patches, etc. Many tranmsissions will be in the national
language of the airline.
Feel free to distribute this list widely. I also welcome updates
and corrections.
Happy listening! Larry Ledlow NA5E
MCI & GEnie: NA5E
CIS: 72017,1736
24 December 1988
Aeronautical Mobile HF Bands
---------------------------------------------
2850-3155 kHz 8815-9040 kHz 17900-18030 kHz
3400-3500 10005-10100 21870-22000
4650-4750 11175-11400 23200-23350
5480-5730 13200-13360
6525-6765 15010-15100
ICAO HF Aero Frequencies
Freq. Regional Coverage Freq. Regional Coverage
-------------------------------------------------------------------
4666 Central Western Pacific 8825 North Atlantic
4669 Central USSR, SW S. America 8843 Central E. Pacific
4675 North Atlantic and Arctic 8846 W. Caribbean
5493 South/Southwest Africa 8855 S. America, S. Atlantic
5520 Western Caribbean 8861 NW Africa, S. Atlantic
5526 Central/Northern S. America 8864 North Atlantic
5547 Central Eastern Pacific 8867 South Pacific
5555 Eastern Caribbean 8879 Indian Ocean, N. Atlantic
5565 South Atlantic 8891 North Atlantic, Arctic
5574 Central Eastern Pacific 8894 N. Central Africa
5598 North Atlantic 8897 Far East
5601 Middle East 8903 S. Central Africa, W. Pac.
5616 North Atlantic 8918 Caribbean, Middle East
5628 North Pacific 8942 Southeast Asia
5634 Indian Ocean 8951 S. Central USSR
5643 South Pacific 10018 South Asia
5649 North Atlantic 10024 South America
5652 North Central Africa 10025 Eastern USSR
5655 Southeast Asia 10042 Far East
5658 Northeast Africa, Middle East10048 North Pacific
5661 Central Europe, Mediterranean10066 Southeast Asia
5664 Eastern USSR 10084 Central Europe, Med.
5667 Middle East 10096 South America, N. USSR
6532 Central Western Pacific 11195 South America
6533 North Central USSR 11279 North Atlantic
6535 Northwest Africa, S. Atlantic11282 Central E. Pacific
6556 Southeast Asia 11291 South Atlantic
6562 Central Western Pacific 11300 NE Africa
6571 Far East 11330 North Pacific
6577 Caribbean 11360 SW S. America.
6586 W. Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico 11375 S. Central USSR
6589 Eastern USSR 11384 Central W. Pacific
6598 Central Europe, Mediterranean11387 Caribbean
6603 North Central USSR 11396 Caribbean, SE Asia
6631 South Central USSR 13273 N. Central Africa, S. Pac.
6649 Southwestern South America 13288 NE Africa, Middle East
6673 Northwest Africa 13291 North Atlantic, Arctic
ICAO HF Aero page 2
13294 Africa, N. Pacific
13297 S. America, Carib., Far East
13300 Western and South Pacific
13306 Indian Ocean, N. Atlantic
13309 Southeast Asia
13312 Middle East
13315 South Atlantic
13318 Southeast Asia
13336 Central E. Pacific
13354 Pacific Ocean
13357 NW Africa, S. Atlantic
17904 Pacific Ocean
17907 SE Asia, N. USSR, S. Am., Car.
17925 Central S. America
17946 North Atlantic, Arctic
17955 NW Africa, S. Atlantic
17961 Africa, Indian Ocean
Long Distance Operations Control
Freq. Location Freq. Location Freq. Location
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4654 Berne 10003 Amman, Jordan 13235 Dresden
4745.5 Berlin, GDR 10026 USA 13247 CW Havana, Moscow
5529 Houston,Madrid 10018 Frankfurt 13248 Belgrade
Santo Domingo 10021 Madrid 13285 Canada
5532 Prague,Jo'burg 10025 CW Havana, Moscow 13285 Berne
5535 London,Bermuda Prague 13307 Jeddah
5538 Bahrain 10027 Europe, Canada 13324 CW Dusseldorf, GDR
5540 Stockholm 10030 USSR, Caribbean 13327 Madrid
5589 Stockholm 10033 W. Afr., Mexico 13330 USA
5691 Wunsdorf, FRG 10065 Frankfurt 13333 London
5703 USA 10069 Berne 13342 Stockholm
6526 Berne 10072 London, Bombay 13348 Santo Domingo
6637 Paris, Frankf. 10075 USA 13351 Paris
6640 USA 10078 Eur., Australia
6643 Berne 11182 Madrid 15024 CW Havana, Moscow
6646 Worldwide 11184 Lisbon 15046 Berlin, Berne
6715 USA 11193 CW Moscow 17916 Stockholm
6745 CW Moscow 11215 Lima 17922 London
6753 Berlin, GDR 11222 Stockholm 17925 Berlin, USA
8842 CW Havana, Moscow 11237.5 Berlin, GDR 17940 USA
8862 Dakar 11256 USA 17975 Berlin
8910 Iceland 11311 Ottawa 17983 Jeddah
8921 London,Bermuda 11312 CW Havana, Moscow 18023 Berne
Frankfurt 11342 USA 21925 Amsterdam
8924 S. America 11345 Worldwide 21940 Paris
8930 Stockholm 11354 Middle East 21946 London
8927 Middle East 11351 Far East 21964 USA
8933 Johannesburg 13205 Berne 21967 Frankfurt
8936 Madrid, Berne 13210 Stockholm 21988 Berne
8983 Frankfurt 13213.8 Frankfurt
8984 Berlin, GDR 13222 Tunis,Berlin,
8986.4 Europe 13225 Berlin
73 de Mark
AG4RQ
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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KD5ZER, ok so you have friends left on CB. Thats ok.
I judge people by their heart/ actions, not how long they have been a ham.
HOWEVER PLEASE BE ADVISED USING ILLEGAL DIRTY SPECTRUM 11M AMPLIFIERS, CAN NOW BE AN E-FELONEY!
This is part of a Homeland security issue.
Those Palomar-200's.500's and the other el crapo amps may produce spectra that WILL interfere with emergent
traffic.You do not want the proverbial cell mate named Bubba!
Your entitled to your CB buddies. Just keep it legal!
Actually in NYC, CB not much worse than some 2M back in 1971.
We had our electronics""OUR GANG"" Meet up at the RadioShack where the manager actually knew electronics! Some of us were hams, some were CBers. No problems! I guess because we were kids. Kids have to be tought to hate!
However we all knew we would become young HAMLETS, some day!
I left before that 1977 convoy song turned everybody from Flip Wilson to Betty Ford into a CBer!
Hey, everybody remember Betty Fords handle? It was FIRST MAMA!
From being on EHAM for 2 years,it has been an excellent adjuct to my study of social pshycology!
Too bad I cannot apply it to my PHd in BME! YES MY SPELLING BITES...YOU OCD-AR ENGLISH LIT. MAJORS!
A.A.D.D is not fun, you picyune misenthropic shposa's!
I will still get my PHd at my OLD FART AGE of 44!
SHPOSA is a slang medical term. Do any of you know it alls know that one too! How about G.O.M.E.R.or N.H.I-Q!
This is just a little venting, sorry!
I always liked the humanist from of psyc.
Ya know it is a funny thing!
Back in my day, many CBers that went ham, made a whole histrionic speech on the home channel of how they are leaving for the greener pastures of Ham Radio. They never returned!
They admitted they were switching down to a 2 channel VHF car trunk radio converted for 2M.
No more 23 channel AM forever!
So enjoy CB too, but keep it legal! In NYC CB is USELESS to talk 1 or 2 miles, much less save your butt in an emergent situation!!!!!!!! That sinking boat(excuse the pun)will not be saved by a CB!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 10, 2004
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Some comments on the Morse code "debate":
1) there are people of all levels of amateur radio experience on
*both* sides of the question.
2) age does not imply expertise, and youth does not imply
lack of understanding. Arguments should be weighed on their merit,
independent of the credentials of those who hold them.
3) the FCC, years ago, dismissed all of the arguments being
offered by those wishing to keep the test; and they have not, to this
day, offered any new ones.
4) there is *no* "CW" test in the US. There is a Morse code
*receiving* test, element 1. (While Morse is the only encoding
currently in use on CW, CW is *not* the only emmission mode on which
Morse is used.)
5) the *real* argument here is whether the FCC should drop element
1, not whether Morse code is a viable mode. Morse code is viable, and
will stand on its own merits.
6) *most* of those in favor of dropping element 1 have already
passed it. (*most* hams now live in countries which have no Morse code
requirement, most notably Japan.)
7) if element 1 were the only element requiring "dedication" or
significant effort, there would be no general license holders, as they
would all immediately take and pass element 4.
8) element 1 is the *only* element that can *only* be learned by rote
memorization and practice.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 10, 2004
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CURMUDGEON;
We have (unfortunately) had “words” in the past.
Today, I must compliment you on a very well written, well thought out post. Your in-depth analysis focused on the real problem, and I suspect that even the most vehement “No Coder” who reads it will find themselves seriously thinking about the points you made.
Well done!
Please make all of your posts like the one presented today:…………your “lesser” ones do not do you justice, and I can see that they lead me to make some mistakes in judging you as an individual………….Sorry about that.
73
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 10, 2004
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My hat's off to the CURMUDGEON for his thoughtful posting above concerning the effectiveness of Morse/CW amateur communications. Very well put! It really should be submitted as an article for wider discussion.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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Gee AE6IP, for once we see eye to eye on something!
Took me 4 tries to pass 13 WPM at the FCC. I thought
20 meter SSB phone was the end all in ham radio!
That was the deal. I wanted my advanced that much!
I got sick and tired enough of looking at my first sideband/CW rig, that I could not use voice on.
It was suprising that after 13WPM, 20WPM was a snap!
For those NCI people, your entitled to your opinion.
You have 2 choices. Pass 5 WPM. Or wait a year or two or three. 73
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 10, 2004
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CURMUDGEON has always been A-OK with me. OLDFART TOO.
I respect their opinion. Their screen names tell ya right up front what the tone the post will be.
Those two and Radio123, I respect and have always been respectfull with me.
My Jury is still out on DB Cooper.
. That other anon dude, the guy that says he is MOS, I find to be condesending and snotty!
73 MIKE
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 10, 2004
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KB1KKC said : "You "know-coders" strike me as nothing more than territorial cranks -- seems to me being respectful of your fellow hams and understanding why you need a satellite or other reflector to DX on UHF would be far more indicative of someone's worthiness to be a ham than their ability to copy code at so many wpm."
So the know-coders are cranks ??? ...and with this attitude you wonder why we get upset ???
Although the code requirement isn't perfect, it does show us a little about a person's character...if a person is willing to learn something that may not be easy for them, just because he wants to get on the HF bands, then it shows that the person has some small amount of dicipline. If a person whines and complains because he doesn't want to go to all the trouble it takes to learn the code, and speaks badly of those that have risen to the challenge, then he also shows what type of character he has as well....
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 10, 2004
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Quote: " Some comments on the Morse code "debate":
1) there are people of all levels of amateur radio experience on
*both* sides of the question.
2) age does not imply expertise, and youth does not imply
lack of understanding. Arguments should be weighed on their merit,
independent of the credentials of those who hold them.
3) the FCC, years ago, dismissed all of the arguments being
offered by those wishing to keep the test; and they have not, to this
day, offered any new ones.
4) there is *no* "CW" test in the US. There is a Morse code
*receiving* test, element 1. (While Morse is the only encoding
currently in use on CW, CW is *not* the only emmission mode on which
Morse is used.)
5) the *real* argument here is whether the FCC should drop element
1, not whether Morse code is a viable mode. Morse code is viable, and
will stand on its own merits.
6) *most* of those in favor of dropping element 1 have already
passed it. (*most* hams now live in countries which have no Morse code
requirement, most notably Japan.)
7) if element 1 were the only element requiring "dedication" or
significant effort, there would be no general license holders, as they
would all immediately take and pass element 4.
8) element 1 is the *only* element that can *only* be learned by rote
memorization and practice."
Well I'll be damned, someone has actually put forth some realistic perspectives on the subject, and somebody who has actually seen both sides of the "fence" at that. Kudos to you Marty, a job well done. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear a position that does not rely on a lifelong emotional attachment to a single mode of operation. Now if you will excuse me, I have a station in Antarctica to contact on Echolink.
73, N3TTN
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 10, 2004
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The no-coders seem to want to leave a legacy to the future hams that says eliminate those things that you find difficult, and nothing is worth working for....in other words "gimme gimme gimme"....
My father taught me that there is more reward in overcoming adversity then there is in trying to avoid it at all cost.... I guess the no-coders never learned that lesson....
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N3TTN on January 10, 2004
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Quote: " Echolink is not a mode of operation. It is not radio. It is pure Internet"
That's funny, the guys I talked to on the 6 meter, 2 meter, and 70 centimeter repeaters in England, Australia, and New Zealand swore that they were talking on radios. By the way OLDFART13, you need to change your aliases to be a little more convincing.....URBANGORILLA, AMATEUR2OO3, DUALGATEMOSFET, and the half dozen other ALL CAPS HANDLES that you use are not very convincing anymore..... Just a thought Bob, or whatever your real name is.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 10, 2004
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You can use a radio with Echolink, but you don't have to. You can use a computer with a microphone on Echolink. Why don't you give me the Antarctican ham's telephone number. I'll call him on my cellphone and accomplish the same result. That's a radio too -- on 800 MHz. Also, I am not OLDFART13, AMATEUR2OO3, URBANGORILLA or anybody else you think I am. I'm just little old me. DUALGATEMOSFET aka "The Epitaxial One".
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 10, 2004
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By the way, in case you haven't figured it out yet, all alpha characters in the user names on this site are forced to upper case by default. It is impossible to register a user name with lower case letters on this site. I tried using both when I registered.
DualGateMosfet
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CODEBASHER on January 10, 2004
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Now that I have gotten back up and into my chair, having laughed my self out of it....
It shows by everyone’s comment that they don't even know why the code was required in the first place.
Way back when.... the Military and Amateur bands were one and the same, we as amateurs had to know when a military signal was being transmitted and had by law, to give priority to that station. Thus we had to know the Code in order to give priority to that signal......However times have changed... the military has it's own frequencies, and we have ours. So the real reason for the requirement to know code has long since gone away, it is now only "Tradition" that keeps it in place for a requirement. Not all the BS that the Know-Code group expresses.
All the hate speeches that have been given, (yes HATE) (that's what flaming means.) shows the intellectual level of the writer. years ago cursing was a signal of the person’s intelligence we can also add to that the "Flaming" language also.
In my opinion I feel that the code served it purpose just as "punch cards" for computer programming did. If one wishes to use it fine and dandy go for it, But it is only TRADITION" that keeps it in place now. It should be kept for traditions sake not as a requirement but for the JOY of it.
Some traditions should be kept and preserved but not necessarily required.
This, my ham friends is my own opinion.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 10, 2004
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You certainly are entitled to your opinion, CODEBASHER. Last time I blinked my eyes, this was still a free country. To my knowledge, it still is and will be, at least for a while. On the other side of the coin, the rest of us are also entitled to our opinions. Freedom swings both ways. Now, I'm going to exercise my freedom by getting back to the CW contest.
--... ...--
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W6NNABE on January 10, 2004
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CURMUDGEON:
Okay, you've made a clear case for *learning CW*, one which I wouldn't argue with. By and large I agree. But when we're talking about a system that's mostly recreational, I still don't understand why CW should be considered an operational requirement on HF -- yes it has certain advantages, extreme narrow bandwidth and easy reception being the main ones, but really I'm still only seeing the historical argument in its favor.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N6HBJ on January 10, 2004
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I like Old Fart's and Curmodgen's posts here.
I have a question: I've been a Ham for 22 years and got my licsense the old way by starting off as a novice but I'm only 38 years old. So am I an old fart or what?
Mike =)
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 10, 2004
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> The no-coders seem to want to leave a legacy to the
> future hams that says eliminate those things that
> you find difficult, and nothing is worth working
> for....in other words "gimme gimme gimme"....
I'm a no-coder, that is, in favor of the FCC eliminating element 1. I can copy 20wpm. I'm a VE and an ARRL CM and CI. I participate in ARES. I've been involved in radio since the early 70s. Please explain how this "gimme gimme gimme" description applies?
> My father taught me that there is more reward in
> overcoming adversity then there is in trying to
> avoid it at all cost.... I guess the no-coders never
> learned that lesson....
My dad taught me that hobbies are for fun. If you find the ARS an "adversity", maybe you should look for a different hobby.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 10, 2004
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> Why don't you give me the Antarctican ham's
> telephone number. I'll call him on my cellphone and
> accomplish the same result.
There's no telephone service between Antarctica and the other continents.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 10, 2004
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AE6IP said "I'm a no-coder, that is, in favor of the FCC eliminating element 1. I can copy 20wpm. I'm a VE and an ARRL CM and CI. I participate in ARES. I've been involved in radio since the early 70s. Please explain how this "gimme gimme gimme" description applies? "
You are a know-coder that thinks that the code requirement should be eliminated. There is a BIG difference between you and those that want to change the rules because they are too LAZY to learn the code in the first place...
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 10, 2004
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AE6IP said "My dad taught me that hobbies are for fun. If you find the ARS an "adversity", maybe you should look for a different hobby. "
My post was regarding challenges. Some people think the code exam is an adversity..some people face the challenge and overcome it (the know-coders)...some people just whine and complain and hope that they will never have to face the challenge (the no-coders)...
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> You are a know-coder that thinks that the code
> requirement should be eliminated. There is a BIG
> difference between you and those that want to change
> the rules because they are too LAZY to learn the
> code in the first place...
Yup, and the BIG difference is that I'm real.
73
Marty
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> My post was regarding challenges. Some people think
> the code exam is an adversity..some people face the
> challenge and overcome it (the know-coders)...some
> people just whine and complain and hope that they
> will never have to face the challenge (the no-
> coders)...
Some people have a sense of perspective, and remember that this is just a hobby.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by K8AG on January 11, 2004
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But throwing out old technology completely is a dangerous course. I was in Indianapolis in late summer 2002 when the tornado hit and cell phones were down, but hams with their redundant battery powered repeaters were still on the air supplying communications for hospitals etc.
The more technology we rely on the more likely it is to fail us. Its a fact.
And, by the way, MAC users are weenies. ;)
73
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP said "Some people have a sense of perspective, and remember that this is just a hobby. "
For once we agree on something...it is just a hobby....
I sure would hate to see it turned into another CB though....
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> For once we agree on something...it is just a
> hobby....
> I sure would hate to see it turned into another CB
> though....
Of all the pro-code arguments, the one that *least* impressed the FCC last go around was the argument that element 1 was any kind of barrier to 'bad apples'
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by AI4BZ on January 11, 2004
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Excellent article!! I see the set-in-their-ways-old-arrogant-farts jumped all over you. I've been a ham for a year and a commercial radio tech for almost 6. It's time certain members of the ham community to stop taking themselves soooooo seriously, pull the sticks out of their a@!es, an realize that this is a hobby!!!!
It's really disappointing to go to hamfests and other ham functions and be treated like garbage by these arrogant people--I realize I'm a "pup" compaired to some of these guys, but my training and experience as a radio tech has made me a better ham. They always complain and wine about how our hobby is dying and how no one is comming to hamfests any more--well, start showing some respect for people and get to know people outside of your ham clubs!! Don't just snub new hams because the tests are easier now than years back!!--doing so only shows how arrogant and closed minded you are. It appears some of you have forgotten that this hobby is supposed to be fun.
73
Tom--AI4BZ
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WR8D on January 11, 2004
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Ref KN4NO: Without beating around the bush you have hit the nail exactly on the head.
Thanks for the wisdom.
John WR8D
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WR8D on January 11, 2004
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Mike N6HBJ: All i can say is "yep"!
They tell me if the shoe fits to wear it..Hi Hi it fits me too.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by WR8D on January 11, 2004
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Ref N8MMZ: Jonathan I know a few merchant marines and they are telling me they still have to know the code. One fellow i know is studying to pass his test right now so he can ship out. That is one heck of a cw test they have to take. Whats the deal about this i thought it was no longer a requirement as you and others have stated. Is it that these guys just want to be able to put another feather in their cap? Or is it still required? I know two of these very educated individuals and they both tell me its still required and used so whats the deal??
73
John WR8D
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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to answer W8rd's question, the merchnant marines still demands CW. Not for RF transmission, but to read blinking emergency lights.
Many spec-ops have to know the code. Not for RF, but again for reading signal lights. Less MOS types have to know CW. Many Navy aviators give many thnks to CW, when in the horrible prison camps. The Hanoi Hilton
had a flurry of CW from POWS. This was great for moral.
For the no coders, I present this challage.
99.7% of the worlds population does not know CW.
Think of it as an honor, than a pain in the butt.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP said "Of all the pro-code arguments, the one that *least* impressed the FCC last go around was the argument that element 1 was any kind of barrier to 'bad apples'"
We have a few no-code CB types on our local repeater...they use their CB lingo and 10-codes and think there is nothing wrong with it...and they refuse to be elmered....the code requirement is the only thing keeping them off of the HF bands....so in at least this case, the code is working to keep the "bad apples" off of the HF bands....
My question to you is, what do we do if the code requirement is dropped and we get these CBers on the HF bands ??? Don't say we need to elmer them, because several folks have privately spoken to them, and they REFUSE to change. I hope I'm wrong, but I can only guess that my situation is not unique...
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Radio123US, you are a smart man. They guy you are debating with is new to EHAM.
He treats all threads like sophmore debating clubs.
You have better hams to spend your time with.
He was also booted off of QRZ, get the picture!
He is either a narcisist or I detect Bipolar Type 2, traits with a little borderline scociopath tossed in the MIX!
Well Radio123US, I have respected your opinions before. If you want to waste your whole day doing circular reasoning with this 6 land know it all, your a better man than I.
No he is not a TROLL. He created a new breed of internet pest. Our Crew of over 30 E-HAMERS strong have decided to ignore this new type of e-pest!
Anyway Radioman123US, I thought i would give you the heads up on this old money bully. You have always been A-OK with me. Thought I would save you some time.
73 MIKE
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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WA2JJH, yes I've seen AE6IP/Marty in many forums....he is really good at stating "facts" that he claims are true but NEVER backs them up with any real data...
Here's a good example :
AE6IP said : "6) *most* of those in favor of dropping element 1 have already passed it.(*most* hams now live in countries which have no Morse code requirement, most notably Japan.) "
Just because "most" hams live in a country that recently removed the morse requirement doesn't mean that the amateurs in that country agree with removing it. I have never seen any real numbers to prove AE6IP's statement anyway...in fact, most of the ARRL polling in the past has found just the opposite in the U.S.
So yes, I am fully aware of AE6IP's tactics....and I won't waste much time with him....
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RAZOR_87FIS on January 11, 2004
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QUOTED by:
RE: Observations From a Newbie... Reply
by CURMUDGEON on January 7, 2004 Another unworthy post by a "new" ham, less than 8 weeks licensed.Tell us what you think in 20-40 years. Till then your opinion carries no weight.
I spent time in the US Armed Forces to preserve the right for you to say what your saying but to belittle anothers post and the person based upon how long they have held a licensed shows how narrowminded you are. I'm sure that the person who posted has experience 'in life' that could benefit another person here who also reads the information presented at this web site. It is fairly easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and you my friend are nothing more that a trouble maker soliciting hate and discontent with your negative post. I'm not trying to make you out to be anything that your not because you are doing that yourself.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD5HQN on January 11, 2004
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I despise opperators like you who feel they have to tear apart someones observations and opinions just to make themselves feel better. I feel that this "Newbie ham" is very much in his right mind on ALL of his observations. All of the Ham opperators that I know of that have ever been of any use to the community have said themselves that it is because they keep up with the changes and the "obsolete" technology. Many times after a disaster there is no power to run the "New high tech" modes of opperation, but with 5 watts from a battery you can opperate CW for several hours, and with a small generator and a couple cans of gas you can go for days, until the main power grid can be repaired.
KD5HQN
Jeremy Bakke
a concerned ham
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8MMZ on January 11, 2004
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WR8D - John,
Don't know why your buddy is studying so hard - ITU dropped the code for ships a way back - maybe it's some kind of fraternal hazing?
This comes from www.usmm.org, they're an alumni group of the merchant marine:
"LONDON - SOS.
Morse code officially went out of use February 1, 1999 for most ships in distress at sea.
The International Maritime Organization set February 1 as its target date to replace dots and dashes with a satellite system, the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System, that can pinpoint the location of a ship signaling for help.
The new system is mandatory for all international freighters over 300 gross tons, all passenger vessels and self-propelled oil drilling units. Coastal freighters, most fishing boats and pleasure craft are exempt."
I also offer this for your review:
"Do ships still use Morse Code?
Morse code officially goes out of use February 1, 1999 for most ships in distress at sea.
Global Maritime Distress and Safety System"
and finally:
"How do I become a Merchant Marine Radio Officer?
The Merchant Marine Academy and the State Maritime Academies provide training only for Deck and Engineering. Merchant Marine Radio Officers need to pass the FCC license exam. They come from the ranks of Amateur Radio Operators, who are largely self-trained in electronics or graduated from electronics schools. Some come from U.S. military services or from Radio Shore Stations. With the demise of Morse code, many ships no longer carry Radio Officers."
I'll leave it to your interpretation. My comments stand on the popular interpretation of the news from a few years ago.
If you want more, go to this web site by Walter Kane, former operator of WCC - it is the text of the closure of ship-to-shore radiotelegraph operations. It's pretty sad - but that's the way it is - you can view here at: www.wjkane.com/cwceremony.htm
Mr. Kane also has several newspaper clipping confirming that morse code "would no longer be recognized as an acceptable form of communication from ships in distress". Looks like it's all up to GMDSS now.
Again, let me reiterate, that CW, particularly the kind of CW that is encoded with morse code, is my ONLY mode (aside from email), in fact, I'm working on mastering my vibroplex blue-racer (I still use the same key that I've used since I was 12 - still on the mounting base that I carved). I hate to see the commercial utility of it abandoned, but I'm afraid that is the case. But you must not forget that we are playing a numbers game here - the population of U.S. ham operators is not increasing at the same rate as the population of the U.S. We need to come up with some kind of solution soon - because what we have now isn't working too well - we are fast losing our voice.
"What hath God wrought?"
73's
N8MMZ
Jonathan
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by N8MMZ on January 11, 2004
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Whoops!
a little addenda for the AR-type folks in the crowd.
Exchange the acronym ITU with IMU in my first paragraph.
-N8MMZ
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 11, 2004
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WA2JJH;
You bring up a really significant point! Maybe Code is no longer required at sea for radio communications, but when things get really “down and dirty”, and you have to use an Aldis Lamp to communicate with another vessel, Code is the only mode possible.
Certainly worth thinking about!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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KENT,""good looking out"". I am fooling around with many Lasers these days. I got everything from 20Watts IR, to 535nm green@100mw!
They are great for C.W.! IR pumped YAG lasers are easy to destroy. C.W. gives the most life to laser diodes.
Had 2 QSO's with some friends, just for kicks.
Problem with YAG lasers is eye damage. So the same way we have to use RF grounding, I have to use optical dampers.
Had a QSO on 535nm(green laser light) 100mw.
I just put my trusty JJ-38 in series with the current limiter. 100mw of green is ultra visiable at night!
Looks like a UFO!
100mw's are FDA IIIB devices, however after 2 miles the beam is wide enough to be safe to the human eye.
100mw has 10 mile range.
Ya know, I have given up on the CW/ANTI-CW thread wars.
I like my space age use for CW!
BTW 5mw Green Lasers pens are down to $60bux. The eye is 20 X more sensitive to green than red.
Check out Z-bolt. The green pointers are a hoot.
You will not be able to purchase 100mw lasers soon!
73 KENT and TNX FER REPLY!
My IR lasers are too dangerous to use otside te lab.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CODEBASHER on January 11, 2004
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Radio123
>We have a few no-code CB types on our local
>repeater...they use their CB lingo and 10-codes and
>think there is nothing wrong with it...and they
>refuse to be elmered....the code requirement is the
>only thing keeping them off of the HF bands....so in
>at least this case, the code is working to keep
>the "bad apples" off of the HF bands....
Sounds to me like you guys need to police your own repeater better, there is an OFF switch for the repeater isn't there? the repeater control person is supposed to take care of this sort of thing. But I guess you just LET this go on without reports.
I don't feel sorry for you at all. If you let CB'ers get away with this sort of thing it's your own fault, Not because of the code.
The reules say to not talk to such. and to shut down repeaters if they get on. So what's the problem.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CODEBASHER on January 11, 2004
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Radio123
>We have a few no-code CB types on our local
>repeater...they use their CB lingo and 10-codes and
>think there is nothing wrong with it...and they
>refuse to be elmered....the code requirement is the
>only thing keeping them off of the HF bands....so in
>at least this case, the code is working to keep
>the "bad apples" off of the HF bands....
Sounds to me like you guys need to police your own repeater better, there is an OFF switch for the repeater isn't there? the repeater control person is supposed to take care of this sort of thing. But I guess you just LET this go on without reports.
I don't feel sorry for you at all. If you let CB'ers get away with this sort of thing it's your own fault, Not because of the code.
The reules say to not talk to such. and to shut down repeaters if they get on. So what's the problem.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CODEBASHER on January 11, 2004
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Radio123
>We have a few no-code CB types on our local
>repeater...they use their CB lingo and 10-codes and
>think there is nothing wrong with it...and they
>refuse to be elmered....the code requirement is the
>only thing keeping them off of the HF bands....so in
>at least this case, the code is working to keep
>the "bad apples" off of the HF bands....
Sounds to me like you guys need to police your own repeater better, there is an OFF switch for the repeater isn't there? the repeater control person is supposed to take care of this sort of thing. But I guess you just LET this go on without reports.
I don't feel sorry for you at all. If you let CB'ers get away with this sort of thing it's your own fault, Not because of the code.
The rules say to not talk to such. and to shut down repeaters if they get on. So what's the problem.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 11, 2004
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WA2JJH:
Your “Space Age” CW application sounds really cool. When you consider the directional nature of lasers (relatively private conversations) and the range they afford, I can see a whole new world for CW. (At least for Special Ops.)
73
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Kent, hand held YAG lasers have been dispensed to special op's. The main use is to laser point at an enemy. It was in the news. I knew about it earlier.
They are the size of a small maglight.
One could see the triple tactical use
1)C.W. secure communications.
2)Having an enemy hit with 250mw of Green laser light, makes an easy target. No need for IR Googles to aim the
ultra bright green beam.
3)Great for rescue op's. They downed soldier can aim the YAG at the rescue craft.
Check out Z-bolt.com for civilian GREEN lasers.
My 25 milliwatt green is the size of a ball point pen!
It came with 2 warnings! Do not look into beam. Do not aim at commercial aircraft! I think both reasons are very valid(HI-HI)
73 DE MIKE
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7BBO on January 11, 2004
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100% right. stop and think about it morse or not we have changes ahead. As for me I think we should all watch 27mzh or blow the dust off the old C.B. because not everyone has ham licens or a rig so waht do they use when they call for help? (out side of a cell phone)
a C.B. So,KG6TKV is right we ALL have to be open minded
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7BBO on January 11, 2004
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100% right. stop and think about it morse or not we have changes ahead. As for me I think we should all watch 27mzh or blow the dust off the old C.B. because not everyone has ham licens or a rig so waht do they use when they call for help? (out side of a cell phone)
a C.B. So,KG6TKV is right we ALL have to be open minded
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> Radio123US, you are a smart man. They guy you are
> debating with is new to EHAM.
Bad guess. I've been around eHam for a year. I've even posted eHam forum articles.
> He treats all threads like sophmore debating clubs.
> You have better hams to spend your time with.
Wrong again. It *really* bothers you that you got called on your mistakes, huh?
> He was also booted off of QRZ, get the picture!
Damn right I got "booted" off QRZ. It would have been less than ethical for me to have done anything else.
> He is either a narcisist or I detect Bipolar Type 2,
> traits with a little borderline scociopath tossed in
> the MIX!
Hi Kettle. How's the Pot?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> My question to you is, what do we do if the code
> requirement is dropped and we get these CBers on the
> HF bands ???
What do you mean by "if"? The term LID is nearly as old as the hobby.
> Don't say we need to elmer them, because several
> folks have privately spoken to them, and they REFUSE
> to change. I hope I'm wrong, but I can only guess
> that my situation is not unique...
OK, help me out here. These "CBers", do they violate any actual rules, or is it just that you don't like their vocabulary?
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> WA2JJH, yes I've seen AE6IP/Marty in many
> forums....he is really good at stating "facts" that
> he claims are true but NEVER backs them up with any
> real data...
So, goose, if the gander has to provide facts, where are yours?
> Here's a good example :
>> AE6IP said : "6) *most* of those in favor of
>> dropping element 1 have already passed it.(*most*
>> hams now live in countries which have no Morse code
>> requirement, most notably Japan.) "
> Just because "most" hams live in a country that
> recently removed the morse requirement doesn't mean
> that the amateurs in that country agree with
> removing it.
Did you, by any chance, notice that there are two sentences there, and that the second one is in parenthesis? The parenthetical remark is an aside, not an argument in support of the first sentence -- that's why it's in parenthesis.
And the argument being offered is *not* that most hams favor dropping element 1. Read the first sentence again, more carefully. The argument is that strong support for dropping the Morse code test comes from people who have already passed the test.
> I have never seen any real numbers to prove AE6IP's
> statement anyway...in fact, most of the ARRL polling
> in the past has found just the opposite in the U.S.
The ARRL has never, to this day, polled its membership, or its web readers, on the question "Should the FCC drop element 1?"
The only effective poll of whether US hams wish element 1 to be dropped or not, flawed though it is, is the responses to the petitions asking for it to be dropped. Last time I checked, those responses were running about 2 to 1 in favor of dropping element 1.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> Your “Space Age” CW application sounds really cool.
> When you consider the directional nature of lasers
> (relatively private conversations) and the range
> they afford, I can see a whole new world for CW. (At
> least for Special Ops.)
NASA first used lasers to communicate with spacecraft sometime in the mid 1960s. The military began deploying FSO in the '70s. Most military uses remain classified to this day.
Free Space Optics (FSO, see http://www.freespaceoptics.com/index.shtml) as opposed to fiber-optics, has been deployed in the telecommunications industry since the mid 1990s. FSO systems, such as those produced by AirFiber can be appropriate for broadband 'campus area' networks.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP, if having a Morse code requirement for HF bothers you so much, why don't you relocate to a country that no longer has such a requirement?
You DO have a bipolar disorder. Like the transistor, you have thermal runaway of the mouth and keyboard. I find you totally repulsive.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> Kent, hand held YAG lasers have been dispensed to
> special op's.
special ops? You should check out the Cheaper than Dirt catalog. laser gunsights have been available to civilian users for a long time.
> The main use is to laser point at an enemy. It was
> in the news. I knew about it earlier.
GLINT has been in use since '71. I don't recall when rifle mounted laser gunsights were first deployed, but I suspect they were used in the first gulf war, if not earlier.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP, lets make an agreement. This is a NEWBIE POST.
I will also agree to not make a single comment, after your practice of annoying MANY OTHER EHAM POSTERS.
My friends started a little petition against your abrasive lambastings and behavior that is antithetical
to the spirit of Ham Radio!
I got about 40 EHAMS on the petition so far.
Yeah, I know EHAM will not do anything. I was not even going to submit it in!
So, lets live the code! Persona non grata sans dominus pro rhe nata! Live and let live.
I will ignore you, if you ignore me!
I Do apologise for saying that I hope you get GLIAL CELL CARCINOMA! Does that make you happy?
73 DE MIKE
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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OK AE6IP BUSTED! MR KNOW IT ALL!!!!!
Portable solid state green YAG lasers are less than 4 years OLD!
I know somewhat about the older EW/CCM systems you think you know about!
a)Helium neon 640nm@10mw mil spec
b)Helium neon IR in vietnam for the A-6 and F-4
c)IR laser diodes, circa 1969
d)Laser designators for the M-16
IR PUMPED SOLID STATE GREEN YAG IS SOMETHING YOU DO NOT KNOW A THING ON! MIL or scientific!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> AE6IP, if having a Morse code requirement for HF
> bothers you so much, why don't you relocate to a
> country that no longer has such a requirement?
Ah, how nostalgic. The old "luv it or leave it" cliche. Element 1 doesn't bother me at all. I passed it a year ago. Anyway, when the cliche truck comes around, put me down for "fix it or fergitaboutit", thanks.
It just happens that the opportunity to get rid of it has come up, thanks to the treaty change, and I keep trying to find a reason to keep it -- but nobody has one.
So, if you don't mind, I'll stick with my liberal role hero, Thomas Jefferson, and opt for less government.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> AE6IP, lets make an agreement. This is a NEWBIE
> POST.
You're post is a newbie post? Are you sure you want to agree to that?
> I will also agree to not make a single comment,
> after your practice of annoying MANY OTHER EHAM
> POSTERS.
Hmm... and yet, the next post after the one I'm replying to is from you, in response to me.
> My friends started a little petition against your
> abrasive lambastings and behavior that is
> antithetical to the spirit of Ham Radio!
Damn. you busted my irony meter.
> I got about 40 EHAMS on the petition so far.
Only 40? You're not trying hard enough.
> Yeah, I know EHAM will not do anything. I was not
> even going to submit it in!
Sure you weren't. You just gather petitions because of the inner peace it gives you.
> So, lets live the code! Persona non grata sans
> dominus pro rhe nata! Live and let live.
Man, if you're ego is that fragile, why do you bother to post in public at all?
> I will ignore you, if you ignore me!
You post in a public forum. If you say something I feel like responding to, I'll respond to it.
> I Do apologise for saying that I hope you get GLIAL
> CELL CARCINOMA! Does that make you happy?
Doesn't effect me one way or the other. Just like your calling me sociopathic.
Look, you spout on about a lot of stuff you don't really understand, such as the nature of science. I dislike seeing science portrayed that incorrectly in public. If you want me to stop responding to posts like that, you can do one of two things: stop making them, or learn from the responses.
And, seriously, if your sense of self-esteem is such that you feel threatened by someone challenging one of your ideas, to the point where you start foaming at the mouth about sociopaths and people getting cancer, I suggest you need to get off the net, and develop a sense of perspective.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Last post here. YOU AE6IP ARE THE BIGGIST SOURCE OF JUNK SCIENCE AND SOPHESTRY!
YOU ARE NOW BLOCKED FROM MY EMAIL
Sorry to the rest of the folks.
Have a nice post with ae6IP
You will have tojudge for yourself!
Terminating my thread subscription.
Have fun with AE6IP
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 11, 2004
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> Portable solid state green YAG lasers are less than
> 4 years OLD!
Please point out to me where I said they weren't.
Actually, while you're at it, point out to me where I said *anything* about green YAG lasers.
All I did was point out that lasers have been used for communication and by the military for 30 or more years.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP said " And the argument being offered is *not* that most hams favor dropping element 1. "
Marty, if I hadn't called you on this one, your statement would have been interpreted by everyone that "most " hams are in favor removal of element 1...I am glad you let us know how to interpret your double-speak...
AE6IP said "The ARRL has never, to this day, polled its membership, or its web readers, on the question "Should the FCC drop element 1?"
On this one you are absolutely WRONG...I received a request from my section manager for my views on the code requirement. He advised me that they were taking a poll of the ARRL membership regarding this issue.
Marty, you are very slick with your words, but you have trouble getting your facts right....
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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AE6IP said "OK, help me out here. These "CBers", do they violate any actual rules, or is it just that you don't like their vocabulary? "
So Marty, are you saying that you APPROVE of this behavior ??? Are you ready for them to join you on the HF bands now ??? You may get your wish if they eliminate element 1.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by KD7KCP on January 11, 2004
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My fellow Hams, now lets be honest about this whole "keep the code get rid of the code " thing. A lot has been written about the prose and cons of keeping the code some on both sides rather well written, and some not. I myself have been rather sharp tongued on the subject, and I have received a few interesting responses because of it.
One ham KB9YVG in a obscene response writes
"You think like an old timer.. I learned CW in a three hour seesion when I was around 12. I have no particular in interest in HF. You seem like on of those operators who like to have their daughter (obscene response) when they hit that key. I thought '73 met "please don't do my kid", whoops that must be CB talk."
and another response by KG4YJR writes
"What a moron".
It is obvious to all that the defensive vitriolic responses of the "get rid of the code test "crowd is due to the fact that their argument ,no matter how will crafted, is intellectually dishonest. The truth is (and every one knows this ,both pro and con camps) that some are willing to earn their goal and others are not. You see some think that just because they want something they should get it even if it means cheating (changing the rules). Some of these lazy slothful types will argue in an intellectually dishonest manner that their concern is "saving Ham radio" when in fact they simply lack the desire to spend the energy to pass element one. To these lazy slothful types I ask: Why not be honest? And just say the truth ,come on and repeat after me: "I just don't want to take the five words a minute CW test, so change the rules just for me!".
I do not use CW myself, but I have lived through two element one tests (passed both). I think it is ok to take a five word per minute Morse code test, it's just part of earning your privilege to use HF.
What I don't get is how can one argue that one should receive such without earning it.
Can someone please explain this "even though i don't want to earn something I should get it just because I want it" thing?
Sincerely;
Slow Code General,
KD7KCP
73
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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>> AE6IP said " And the argument being offered is
>> *not* that most hams favor dropping element 1. "
> Marty, if I hadn't called you on this one, your
> statement would have been interpreted by everyone
> that "most " hams are in favor removal of element
> 1...I am glad you let us know how to interpret your
> double-speak...
The sentence was: "6) *most* of those in favor of dropping element 1 have already passed it."
I have absolutely no idea how you managed to draw the conclusion you did from that sentence, but it sure wasn't from reading it.
Nor can I think of any reason, other than rhetoric, that you could possibly call such a clear statement "double-speak."
> AE6IP said "The ARRL has never, to this day, polled
> its membership, or its web readers, on the
> question "Should the FCC drop element 1?"
> On this one you are absolutely WRONG...I received a
> request from my section manager for my views on the
> code requirement.
Your section manager is the ARRL? The division board members are the people who are making the decision on ARRL's behalf. Until I advised him that there was an issue, my section manager didn't even know the directors were looking for input. (Because mine wasn't.)
> He advised me that they were taking a poll of the
> ARRL membership regarding this issue.
He was incorrect. *some* ARRL directors are polling *some* members, using a poll (which I've responded to) that does *not* ask the question. In fact, the poll is biased *towards* keeping element 1, as witness the question asking how much effort ARRL should put into preserving element 1, without a similar question asking how much effort ARRL should put into removing element 1.
> Marty, you are very slick with your words, but you
> have trouble getting your facts right....
Well, if I do, you certainly haven't demonstrated it.
By the way, I take some small pride in being instrumental in a minor way, in getting the ARRL to even go *that* far.
Prior to my agitation on the topic, (along with, I presume the agitation of others,) The ARRL had allowed the directors to "gather information in whatever fashion they wished", and at least two directors -- those of the two largest ARRL sections -- had chosen to make no effort.
It is my understanding that at least two of the divisions have still made no effort to poll their members. It is my sure knowledge that coverage in the largest division has been spotty. Apparently, the only ARRL members in my division that are getting the poll are those that have arrl email addresses.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> So Marty, are you saying that you APPROVE of this
> behavior ???
I'm just asking a simple question. Have they broken any rules, or are they simply using a vocabulary you don't like?
> Are you ready for them to join you on the HF bands
> now ???
If all they're doing is using "CB lingo", it doesn't matter to me. I take it from your refusal to answer that they aren't actually breaking any rules. Is this true?
> You may get your wish if they eliminate element 1.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, any evidence that element 1 acted as any barrier towards entry to lids. It has been more than ten years since the FCC wrote:
>>> We do not concur with the comments alleging that
>>> the passing of a telegraphy examination is an
>>> indication of the examinee's good character,
>>> high intelligence, cooperative demeanor, or
>>> willingness to comply with our rules.
As far as the general bad attitude some hams have about CBers, I will merely point out that Jim Haynie, president of the ARRL is also a REACT member, and that W1AW operated remotely during hamvention last year through the courtesy and equipment of a Texas REACT group.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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>> Marty, you are lower than a flea or a louse in
>> Osama Bin Laden's beard
jeez. that's the best you can do?
my goodness how the standard for insults has suffered since we allowed the great unwashed masses on to the internet.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There once was a ham who loved brackets,
He'd quote everyone and make quite a racket.
The ideas were quite stale,
Some went beyond the pale.
Now he's in a padded room with a straight jacket.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There once was a man named Ohm,
Who had guests that wouldn't go home.
So he wired up their dinner chairs,
Electrifying their derrieres.
Now its just Georgy and the dog all alone!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There once was a lid from Nantucket,
Whose audio was like he was in a bucket..
Instead of finding out what was wrong...
He sang an off-color song,
Then Reilly took all his ducats.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There once was a lid named Fred,
Who loaded up the springs of his bed.
He tuned the Posturepedic too long,
Then something went horribly wrong,
And now he looks like molten lead.
If you guys stop fighting, I'll stop posting
these excuses for limericks.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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Frankly, if someone is well on the road to getting their PH.d in a hard science, then their understanding of the "scientific method" should not be questioned.
I'd love to play with that high powered laser! A surgeon my bride was attending on got playful with his handheld YAG. Very unprofessional, and he lost his priviledges at the hospital.
Went through about 3 walls and busted tile all the way. Lucky he didn't kill someone with it.
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RE: ..................
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There was a foreign ham with a dirty mouth,
He was ignorant, but not from the south.
He wasn't ignored, but in fact not adored,
The moderator gave him his hat and showed him the door.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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<<<All I did was point out that lasers have been used for communication and by the military for 30 or more years.>>>> LIKE DUH!
Sure Philip, I SHOULD HAVE A 30watt 1080nm built for the lab at the hospital.The 10Watt job, I use a
The 100mw GREEN is spectacular. All law enforcement is switching over to green yag in a few years.
They eye is 20X more responsive to Green.
Forget the M-16 or the HK-5, the laser site scares the heck out of the ""perps"".
What was just issued to the MOS in IRAQ are 250mw Green YAGS.
Not what IP very rudely thought he was talking about!
The infrared designator for the M-16 has been around since 1974. So much for IP's usual vague answer of ahh.....just before the gulf war, I think?
s
IP just uses Google searches to keep up with me.
A cheap trick.
Just finished a hand held 2Watt IR laser. Perfect power for emergency cauterisation for extreme blood loss.
BE glad to hook anybody up to get NASA TECH BRIEFS for FREE. All except IP of course!
PHILIP, might be down your way to visit my friend at you know where.
73 MIKE
Looks like I will be graduating cum lauda for the masters. The Doctorate should take 3 years.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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Sounds like ........ Know the place well. Did some work at a military installation down the road and did the electrical design on a school not too far either.
Congrats on the cum laude. Did magna cum laude on my BSEE. Graduate work is MUCH harder.
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Screw CW . . .
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by N7CAV on January 12, 2004
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I upgraded to defend the CW operating mode and use it as a primary operation. I was met with veteran CW operators that would respond to my CQ call, then after I sent my first message, they would just send 73 (If that) and start calling CQ again- Same as saying "Screw you, newbie General, I've got better things to do than listen to your new hash . . ."
So- I upgraded to encourage fellow tech to upgrade. My new attitude is: SCREW CW - I'm upgrading to extra just to have more clout when I vote your damn elitist mode off the air.
Go tech class - Out number and overcome . . . heh . . .
Those veteran CW operators will have lots of fun when they drop the code and hear seven-thousand no-code generals running SSB on the lower end!
N7CAV
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by K4JSR on January 12, 2004
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>There's no telephone service between Antarctica and the other continents<
I wonder if they get the SPAM on their internet for
the "PHONE PATCH"? Surely they must! :-D
With all of these ads for patches for the overweight,
over smoked and under sexed you'd think the internet's
theme song would be "Patches, I'm Countin" On You Son To Pull The Family Through"!
73 Cal K4JSR All patched up and ready to go!~
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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Of course you cannot insult IP. More proof of anti-social behavior/borderline sociopath.
These miscreants have a different synaptical wiring of their brains. They have no respect for anybody.
Some actually do not experience shame, guilt, or any type of human emotion as we now it.
IP, read a good book. It is called without conscience
by DR HARE. It is all about borderine sociopaths,sociopaths, and psycopaths. I know you will see your self in the book!
To a sociopath, wives and kids are just mere objects.
Now I did say yu were a full blown sociopath! I said borderline traits.
If you all do a Google search on IP, you will have a clear picture of possible borderline sociopathic traits.
The simple fact that IP did not care that 40 people want him off EHAM, shows a great deal.
The fact that he arrow quoted just about everybody shows he is very insecure. True he is in a top tax bracket. THEN AGAIN, SO IS MARTHA STEWART and IVAN BOWSKI.
The fact that he is proud of the legacy of ruin he put upon QRZ is more proof that this man is a FEW FRENCH FRIE'S SHORT OF A HAPPY MEAL!
He has no respect for others. BTW, I GOTZ NO problem telling you this 18" in front of your face!PUNK!
Hope the CRIPS and THE BLOODS are real active in your area!
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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An apology to Newbies and others, all except IP.
Last Post here I promise MIKE, N2MG!
Sorry that AE6IP and I had this fight on a Newbie forum. I apologise to all! except IP
IP has been a CHRONIC PEST on a few threads.
The DEAD DUDE theads that PHILIP KA4KOE has even been polluted by IP!
IP is proud that he was thown off another ham radio E-pub. What does this tell you! Newbie and OT a like.
This is not the spirit of ham radio. I liked some of what the author said. Some I did not agree with.
WE DO NEED THE NEWBIE VIEW. We should be tolorent and very helpfull with all newbies!
Like I said before, more Ham Clubs are needed.
EHAM IMO does a good job emulating a club. However it is not the real deal.
I am man enough to say sorry to the NEWBIES for ruining this thread with my e-fight.
I have been in real NYC street fights, so I guess my hard-ass NYC attitude comes into play. I prefere to fight in the DOJO-karate. You do not get hurt as bad (HI_HI)
I am nursing two broken ribs from karate. I am on EHAM a lot for FUN! Have to stay in bed for a few days.
It is a nice diversion. I am in too much pain to be on the radio.
I think most of you will agree that IP's excessive arrow quoting is taking the FUN out of EHAM!
This LID is also messing up Humor threads!
I have tried to reason with IP! In his own words, he said he will do as he please's.
In good faith I will not answer any of ae6ips bull!
Lets turn this back into the NEWBIE forum it was!
I admit it was half my fault fighting with IP and talking about Medical and other lasers. If EHAM will permit me, I will write about my QSO at 535nm. I think that sets a frequency record for ham(HI-HI)
So again very sorry and 73 and IP be man enough to do the same!
73 DE MIKE
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> Frankly, if someone is well on the road to getting
> their PH.d in a hard science, then their
> understanding of the "scientific method" should not
> be questioned.
Unless their PhD is in the philosophy of science, or the history of science, they should be expected to have no better grasp on what science is than a layman. (There is no "scientific method".)
On the other hand, anyone who is worthy of the term "scientist" would *never* claim that an individual should "not be questioned" abou their ideas.
It is precisely the challenging of ideas (we call it peer review) that makes science as effective as it is.
Religious leaders demand not to be questioned. Scientists invite challenge to their ideas.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> They eye is 20X more responsive to Green.
Um, no. The eye is, under daylight conditions slightly more responsive to yellowish-green (555 nm) light. The sensitivity varies, depending on the spectral content and intensity of the light. At night, the point of highest sensitivity moves towards the blue.
> Forget the M-16 or the HK-5, the laser site scares
> the heck out of the ""perps"".
I doubt very much that someone who recognizes that they are being targeted cares very much what color the targeting light is.
> Not what IP very rudely thought he was talking
> about!
I knew what you were talking about. I merely expanded the topic, since someone else was asking about the use of lasers in communication.
You have a very weird sense of "rude" if you think providing more information to someone who is asking after a topic is "rude."
> The infrared designator for the M-16 has been around
> since 1974. So much for IP's usual vague answer of
> ahh.....just before the gulf war, I think?
Speaking of vague...
My answer is available. You could have quoted it. But yes, since knowing more is important to you, I freely admit that I have little knowledge of the history of the use of laser gun sights.
> IP just uses Google searches to keep up with me.
> A cheap trick.
Wow. I didn't know you were clairvoyant.
> Just finished a hand held 2Watt IR laser. Perfect
> power for emergency cauterisation for extreme blood
> loss.
Cool. I think that's about the same power as the Edmund Scientific laser I used for my 7th grade optics science project.
> BE glad to hook anybody up to get NASA TECH BRIEFS
> for FREE. All except IP of course!
Jeez. You mean people really read Tech Briefs? We used to use them for light amusement when I was at Ames.
> Looks like I will be graduating cum lauda for the
> masters. The Doctorate should take 3 years.
congratulations and good luck.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> Graduate work is MUCH harder.
Depends on where you go to graduate school. I know a guy who got his MsCS for doing a project that I had my junior electronics class do in a semester.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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You lose again IP! I get peer review at the hospital and university. I know the whole drill!
EHAM is a HOBBY. I get enough crap from real scientist, and not hobbyist scientist like you, SCHMUCK!(hi-hi) nothing personal!HI-HI
I am just f--king with you, as my dominican gangbanger
friends say!
RX for IP, SIG:Levodromoran 1500mgs bolus I.V.
P.R.N DNR! Hmmm that should be LD-100 x 250 for a chump! Why dont ya get on Google and see if I am wrong
PUNK! Thats your scientific method, GOOGLE!
BTW I am not frothing at the mouth as you envisioned!
Except for my 3 busted ribs, I am very happy! Bet you cant take a roundhouse kick like me, sloth!
BET AT YOUR local ER you are refered to as either a shposa, gommer, or frequent flier!
OK SMART ass, see if you can find that medical vernacular on GOOGLE! chump!
BTW I am having fun, laughing at you!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> Of course you cannot insult IP. More proof of anti-
> social behavior/borderline sociopath.
Wow. I though you'd decided to apologize and then ignore me. You're making me nostalgic for Usenet.
> These miscreants have a different synaptical wiring
> of their brains. They have no respect for anybody.
I have a great deal of respect for people who've earned it. Several people on talk.origins, most notably Wilkins, who taught me the philosophy of science, for example.
> Some actually do not experience shame, guilt, or any
> type of human emotion as we now it.
Shame on you. You've made me feel guilty. Now, excuse me, while I roll around the floor laughing my ass off.
> IP, read a good book. It is called without
> conscience by DR HARE. It is all about borderine
> sociopaths,sociopaths, and psycopaths. I know you
> will see your self in the book!
I'll pass, thanks. I think you're giving me a good enough seminar on the subject. I especially appreciate the demonstrations.
> To a sociopath, wives and kids are just mere
> objects.
You say that with such certainty; almost as if from first hand experience.
> Now I did say yu were a full blown sociopath! I said
> borderline traits.
I think you might want to re-edit that pair of sentences. They seem to disagree with each other.
Remind me again, what are your clinical credentials in psychology?
> If you all do a Google search on IP, you will have a
> clear picture of possible borderline sociopathic
> traits.
If you're going to suggest people do a vanity search on me, you could at least give them my name to use in it.
> The simple fact that IP did not care that 40 people
> want him off EHAM, shows a great deal.
Yes. It does. It says that I'm wise enough to realize that
a) claims of email support are pathetic
b) you can't express strong opinions and please everyone.
> The fact that he arrow quoted just about everybody
> shows he is very insecure. True he is in a top tax
> bracket. THEN AGAIN, SO IS MARTHA STEWART and IVAN
> BOWSKI.
I'm in the top tax bracket? You have no idea how funny that mistaken claim is. I currently expect to make on the order of 5,000 dollars in '04.
> The fact that he is proud of the legacy of ruin he
> put upon QRZ is more proof that this man is a FEW
> FRENCH FRIE'S SHORT OF A HAPPY MEAL!
"Legacy of ruin"? Boy do you over rate me and underrate the moderators on QRZ.
> He has no respect for others. BTW, I GOTZ NO problem
> telling you this 18" in front of your face!PUNK!
So, this preoccupation you have with me, do you think it's healthy?
Look, I'm sorry I didn't know how fragile your ego is before I responded to your poor attempt at describing science. I promise, next time, that if you post anything that bad, I'll try to explain the error in a kid-friendly, Mr. Rogers, manner.
But, once again, I *strongly* suggest that you need to get off the net for a while and work on your sense of perspective.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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You get 50mw of green on you, IP...you will need new pants! HI-HI
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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HEY IP, I am having fun at this! Nice google look up on 535nm visa-vi eye response!
This is a chess game to me man! You do not have me angry at all. The joke really is on you! lighten up dude!
Next move chump! timer is ticking!
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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AHH, C'MON IP, we were going to be great friends.
New perspective? Like the one I got! WAS going to fly you into NYC.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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> IP has been a CHRONIC PEST on a few threads.
Well, that's an improvement. A while ago you were accusing me of using sophomore debating tactics in every thread I participate in.
> The DEAD DUDE theads that PHILIP KA4KOE has even
> been polluted by IP!
So, did you ever look up what Ohm's law actually is?
> IP is proud that he was thown off another ham radio
> E-pub. What does this tell you! Newbie and OT a
> like.
That's right, d00d. I'm proud of the fact that when it came down to an issue of ethics, I did what I believed in rather than caving to peer pressure. Glen was wrong, and someone needed to say so.
> This is not the spirit of ham radio. I liked some of
> what the author said. Some I did not agree with.
d00d! That's the most accurate thing you've written tonight. Congratulations.
> I am man enough to say sorry to the NEWBIES for
> ruining this thread with my e-fight.
while at the same time continuing the same e-fight.
> I think most of you will agree that IP's excessive
> arrow quoting is taking the FUN out of EHAM!
This is a thirty year old mechanism for providing continuity in thread exchanges. If web boards had *real* threading, it wouldn't be necessary.
By the way, to this point, you are the *only* one on eham who has taken exception to this attempt to compensate for the limitations of web boards.
> This LID is also messing up Humor threads!
Ah, you don't appreciate sardonic humor. Just for you, I'll stop using it.
> I have tried to reason with IP! In his own words, he
> said he will do as he please's.
You have attempted to browbeat me; attempted to insult me; followed me around various topics and posted nonsense about me; including false claims about my financial status. If this is your idea of "reasoning with", I think you are sadly mistaken.
> In good faith I will not answer any of ae6ips bull!
Help me out here. How many times are you going to post a diatribe in which you claim you're through posting diatribes against me?
> I admit it was half my fault fighting with IP and
> talking about Medical and other lasers.
Well, you're half right.
> If EHAM will permit me, I will write about my QSO at
> 535nm.
Go for it. write the article and submit it. They published one of mine, I'm sure they'd publish something on that topic.
> I think that sets a frequency record for ham(HI-HI)
Well, in the sense you mean, probably, but you weren't operating on ham frequencies. (hi hi)
> So again very sorry and 73 and IP be man enough to
> do the same!
I haven't done anything to apologize for. I have corrected your poorly written description of science, teased a few people about Ohm's law and "real electronics", provided various useful information in various threads, and responded to your outrageous behavior.
If *you* wanted to be "man enough", *you* would admit that you have been far out of line, starting with your first response to me (in which you wished me to catch cancer) and peaking, recently, in your diatribe accusing me of being a "borderline" sociopath.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by AE6IP on January 12, 2004
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Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far, from here, Mike Post wrote in
a thread on eHam:
>> Last Post here I promise MIKE, N2MG!
In the time it took me to post a response, Mike Post broke his promise
not once, but *four* times. About which:
> You lose again IP! I get peer review at the hospital and university. I
> know the whole drill!
I don't recall claiming you didn't. I just suggested to Philip
Neidlinger that one who was a scientist would welcome being questioned.
> EHAM is a HOBBY. I get enough crap from real scientist, and not
> hobbyist scientist like you, SCHMUCK!(hi-hi) nothing personal!HI-HI I
> am just f--king with you, as my dominican gangbanger friends say!
You might want to ask one of them, in your most polite voice, what it
is that makes them real scientists. It's pretty clear from what
you've written on eHam that you either don't know it, or aren't
capable of expressing it.
> Why dont ya get on Google and see if I am wrong
> PUNK! Thats your scientific method, GOOGLE!
Why would I want to google when I have a PDR here and a sister-in-law
who is a nurse that I could ask.
> BET AT YOUR local ER you are refered to as either a shposa, gommer, or
> frequent flier!
I think you spelled the first one wrong. At least I don't remember
it. But, no, I'm not refered to by any name at the local ER, as I've
never been there as a patient.
> OK SMART ass, see if you can find that medical vernacular on GOOGLE! chump!
Why? It's the same "vernacular" that George C. Scott et al used in
the movie "Hospital." Is that where you learned it? (There's also a
screamingly funny novel about a first year resident that's full of the
jargon, although a bit dated now.)
> BTW I am having fun, laughing at you!
You need to cut back on the MS Contin, dude.
----- post 2
> You get 50mw of green on you, IP...you will need new pants! HI-HI
Oops. there was the second one. Nice implied threat, there.
---- post 3
> HEY IP, I am having fun at this! Nice google look up on 535nm
> visa-vi eye response!
555. I thought you'd done a vanity search on me, or at least you
implied you did. Surprised you missed where I've been a photographer
for years and was involved in Tom Laskinski's scientific visualization
project in the 80s.
But for a guy who's eHam profile includes the phrase "reasearch on the
web" under what they do, you sure seem to be bad mouthing Google.
> This is a chess game to me man! You do not have me angry at all. The
> joke really is on you! lighten up dude!
OK. Sure. You wrote five quick posts in a row because you were
playing chess. It's been a while, so you'll have to refresh my
memory, but don't players alternate moves in chess?
> Next move chump! timer is ticking!
tic
toc
> AHH, C'MON IP, we were going to be great friends.
Sure we were. You're a big one for making friends.
> New perspective? Like the one I got! WAS going to fly you into NYC.
Ah, that would have been cool. I coulda seen Les Paul play, caught
the exhibits at the International Center for Photography, and had
garlic pizza with my friend Danny before we went night geocaching in
Central Park.
---- oops, not four, five.
> OK IP you win. You know everything! How often does the milkman screw
> your wife!
jeez. they still have milkmen where you live? how quaint. It's the
MAILman that always rings twice.
it's 10:35 zulu, so I think I'll post this, scan some other threads,
and go to bed, as my net on 40m is ending.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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OK IP I DO owe you an apology for real! Ehams computer has been putting the responses out of order!!!!!!!
I do not know if this is a computer glitch, or someone
claimed that it seemed like they do it on purpose to create controversy.
I did go over the line! The POST WERE IRONICLY out of order, it made us both look bad!
For Real man! No kidding. I have been trying to shut our fight up. If it is OK I will email you?
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by N7TIM on January 12, 2004
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Your right Tracy, change does help one grow. Now, go out and learn something new today.
- .-. -.-- -.-. --- -.. .
Tom
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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Bracketed....
Naval term that usually means the first two salvos went long and short. The next is right down the stack....
Who's lobbing what, that's what I want to know.
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Observations From a Newbie...
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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Philip, faahgetta bout it ace! The situation is a 98X-RAY. Lets leave this post for the NEWBIES and those that want to help NEWBIES.
I had my fun. Just part of certain training the university said do not get too mixed up in.
I will Telco, everything is cool.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NOLICENSEASOFYET on January 12, 2004
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Some of you need theropy. Really thats not a dig, you need to relax. The FCC is gonna do what they want and I don't think that they care what ham operators think. They will just do what they want. Which is going to be dropping morse. Deal with it.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CURMUDGEON on January 12, 2004
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It should be abundantly clear to all by now that amateur radio is not benefiting from these posts on eham (and qrz). From now on I'm personally going to just rely on CQ and QST and WorldRadio for my news and I'm going back to amateur radio on the air(exclusively)I don't need to be agitated by the wide range of stupid opinion that is manifest here.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC0JTC on January 12, 2004
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All right, I am getting tired of the fabrications that you people keep making about the reason you want to keep cw as a requirement. Your arguments hide the true agenda of wanting to keep a portion of radio spectrum for a few who currently have access to it. Don't give me this BS about the need for it to show how good you are as operators or how necessary it is for emergency operations. Just how many of you demanding it remain as a testing standard have actually used CW in an emergency in the last 15 years? And I am not talking about exercises. And no doubt one of you AH's will use your tiny brain to accuse me of being one of those no skilled no coders. Well I passed both my general and code test at 49 years old on the first try. That's not the GD point. You aren't interested in improving amateur radio or keeping it high quality. Get off your Fxxxxxxx high horses and admit that all you want is maintain ownership of a portion of radio spectrum no matter what. Don't give me this altuistic crap. You are looking after your own self interest and willing to sell out amateur radio to keep it.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 12, 2004
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KC0JTC:
With your posting above, I'd say you were eliglible for membership in the No Clue International Club. Instead of presenting a cogent argument for whatever point you are trying to make, you give us a foul-mouthed rant. Move up the thread and read CURMUDGEON's thoughtful posting of January 10, then tell us your ideas for improving amateur radio if you have any.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by W8OB on January 12, 2004
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Curmudgeon: I can't agree with you enough. I also will fire up my rig and spend time on the HF CW bands and receive my news off the ARRL website and from several other magazines I receive. This site is best left to those on the outside looking in.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC0JTC on January 12, 2004
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I believe CURMUDGEON was one of the first to make a personal attack on the author that originated this article. So his later comment is simply another flame. NIOC, you just proved my point. Another personnel attack. If you don't get the point then you don't have clue.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by TECH2003 on January 12, 2004
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I will be glad when the stupid, useless code is eliminated and the band plans are refarmed to allow more phone space. We need to move on with the future of ham radio and that is us newbies and NO-CODERS!!!
Steve
NCI-3069
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by NI0C on January 12, 2004
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KC0JTC:
I'm not a mind reader, and I don't know you at all. Therefore if I don't get your point it simply means you haven't expressed it very well. (Hint: potty-mouth words do not contribute anything to the discussion). Until you make a valid point, I can only conclude that you really have none.
As I pointed out in my Jan 9 posting on this thread, the author of the original article unfortunately set the tone for some of inevitable personal attacks that followed.
I'll agree that CURMUDGEON was a bit harsh in his original posting; however I believe he redeemed himself here on Jan. 10. His comments speak for a lot of us who have been in the hobby for a couple of sunspot cycles or more and are worthy of consideration.
73 de Chuck NI0C
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 12, 2004
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CURMUDGEON is a true ham. So is NI0C and WA2JJH. KC0JTC is one of those wolves in sheep's clothing. His mentality is with the no-coders and his vocabulary is with the CBers. Although AE6IP has severe mental problems, at least his language is clean. There is help for you, Marty. There are facilities all over the country with padded accomodations, and I'm sure they are all well-staffed with good doctors. You will be well taken care of at any one of them. They just to keep you away from computers and radios, and need to keep sharp objects away from you. As for TECH2003, well, there is a real hard core CBer. As for TECH2003's vision of the future of ham radio, Aye! That's a big ten-four there good buddy! Just make sure you have fire in the wire and you use all the correct lingo. Keep all the knobs all the way to the right and make sure you are using a good power mike with a good strong echo. And don't forget that there roger beep good buddy. This is why we need to keep code testing. We need to keep the likes of TECH2003 off the HF bands. Anybody who says that code testing is not a good filter needs to remember TECH2003. Code testing WILL keep TECH2003 off the HF bands. You can take that to the bank.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC0JTC on January 12, 2004
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1. Falacy - Anti-Code does not equal anti-technical skills.
2. Falacy - I believe in a couple of speeches K4ZDH has made comments about the abuse that already exists by operators in the HF bands, so it doesn't appear that the code has been a very effective filter. Just listen on 80 meters anytime. Many of the comments in here are proof of that.
3. The point is, don't tell me we are trying to keep up the skill level in amateur radio when in reality we are maintaining morse code testing as a ruse to keep a portion of the radio spectrum for the exclusive use of a few. To persist in any other argument for continued morse code testing is a fabrication. Let's get down to brass tacks here and quit beating around the bush.
4. Obviously I hit too close to home or I wouldn't have had the responses. My language was an obvious flame. Just like all the other personal attacks, veiled on not, made in this forum. When someone writes a comment saying they aren't going to continue with a forum, they are spreading it thick. If you don't want to post in here. Don't post. A polite statement made that nothing in here is worth reading is still a flame. As Harry S Truman said, and I no doubt paraphrase "If its too hot, get out of the kitchen." And for those of you that don't know, there is no period after the S.
5. The unfortunate thing is that the ARRL and the FCC have let this thing continue to boil over for way too long. The decision needs to be made so we can go on.
6. The ARRL will probably make an "official" proclamation of support for continued morse testing. After all that is what the folks with the money wants. On the other hand unofficially they will probably offer no real resistance if the FCC drops the requirement either now or sometime in the future.
7. If the FCC doesn't drop the code requirement at this time this battle will continue, much to the detriment of amateur radio. But what the heck it will keep us focused on this issue rather than all the other threats to amateur radio, such as BPL.
8. I never had radio that could operate on 11 meters until I had an amateur license. I picked up the languane honorably in the Navy.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC8VWM on January 12, 2004
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I find it rather ironic that this message thread is called, "Observations From a Newbie."
I think the title, "My Observations of the Moral Decay & Hostility Toward Others in Amateur Radio," would be more appropriate in light of the more recent posts.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by CODEBASHER on January 13, 2004
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KC8VWM, Charles
If you think this is bad you ought to check out the other debate: http://www.eham.net/articles/7163
"Ridiculous Code Speeds Are Here to Stay"
The Know-Code folks are eating up the Slow-Code people!
It's a riot, I'm comparing the comments between the two No-Code/Know-Code and the Slow-Code/Fast-Code.
Based on what I've read, If it is left up the fast-Code group no one else would be welcomed to Ham Radio!
The Cat's out of the Bag, The whole argument is for control of the ham air waves by the fast-Code group which is what 35% of hams?
The code requirement MUST be removed for the welfare of the hobby!
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KC0JTC on January 13, 2004
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According to one web site, extra class licenses make up 104,703 out of a total of 681,466 licensed amateurs. That is almost 15.4 percent. If you add the advanced licenses, 81,683, another almost 12 percent. If you combine those two groups you come up with almost 27.4 percent. One can't generalize that all extra and/or advanced license holders want to continue the code requirement or that those with "2nd class" licenses are opposed to the code requirement. But it does give some kind of indication of the way the lines are drawn. A web site of a club out of Hawaii has collected and analyzed the data on comments made on the various fcc petitions comparing license status and the oppinions expressed. There data shows that the oppinions expressed pretty much fall out in agreement with license status. If you want to find this data just do a google on your call sign if you commented on any of the petitions. They have you down.
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RE: Observations From a Newbie...
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by KB9YZL on January 13, 2004
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Jeez………….You’re right!
I just got done reading the “Ridiculous Code Speeds Are Here to Stay" thread!
When there aren’t any “No- Coders” around to bash, they really do start to “eat their own young”, don’t they?
DISCLAIMER: This post in no way endorses one side or the other in the “Code/No Code” debate. It is merely an amused observation.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
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