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What Constitutes Being a LID?
Ford Peterson (N0FP)
on
January 11, 2004
View comments about this article!
As time and energy permits, I like to chase DX (among other on-the-air activity). The process is simple. You work the DX, get a report, give a report, and usually say 73. The best DX is often very short and very sweet. The goal on both ends is simply to "make the Q." QSL cards are often exchanged by mail or bureau to get confirmation of the QSO for awards like DXCC, WAZ, etc. Many DX are chasing states and even counties.
Tonight I heard a Denmark station on 80-meter SSB. Not a new country for me, but a new one for SSB. So I wanted him in my log. He was right at my noise floor in Minnesota. I could just barely get copy and the QSB would often take out his signal completely.
Working the east coast from EU is like working across town on 2 Meters. Based on the reports exchanged, signals appear to roar into the right coast of the US. "You're 20 over peaking 30 over in Maine using a dipole." And again, "You are a solid 30 over 9 into NY, beautiful signal." Reports delivered from ME, NJ, MD, CT, etc. were typically well over S-9. And these east coast stations were able to bust pile-ups using equipment like "G5RV," the "double bazooka," and "100 watts into a dipole at 30 feet." Most of the "first tier" state-side stations were exchanging reports well over S-9.
Tonight was different. The DX was calling "QRZ any west coast or Midwest station." He was obviously trying to work deeper into the heartland. Just hearing EU in the Midwest on the low bands is a treat. Hearing EU stations calling west coast and Midwest is quite common when EU can be heard. I must therefore conclude that hearing stations from the Midwest and west coast must be a treat for the DX as well. The disappointment comes from all the people who are clearly NOT in the area the DX is calling. And the QRM from the east coast and Southeast US was unbelievable. These stations were calling even though I could hear 7s calling the DX. In my book, this is borderline malicious interference.
Hams are supposed to be self-policing. Yet there appears to be no forum for slapping the hands of those who are rude and demonstrate inappropriate behavior. The DX could have controlled the situation by not calling on stations clearly "out-of-territory," although this is tough since the numeric districts have little meaning any more.
Discussing this with some friends, I referred to the QRMing stations as LIDS. The newbies in the group asked: "So what's a LID?" For the first time in my life, I was without words. To my knowledge, the letters L.I.D. don't stand for anything in particular. But my understanding of a LID is a person who does not pay attention, transmits when he's supposed to be receiving, causes needless QRM, or operates the radio inappropriately. People who operate their radios in a criminal fashion are always LIDs, but not all LIDs are criminals. There is a fine line between LIDs and non-LIDs.
This description left the newbies with more questions than answers. So I submit the question to the hams lurking on eHam to possibly discover the true meaning of a LID. What behavior constitutes being a LID? Where did term originate?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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What constitutes being a LID?
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by OLDFART13 on December 29, 2003
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A LID is a bad operator. There are, and always will be, new hams who make mistakes or don't know any better. We need to teach these new hams the proper operating procedures and how to be good ops. But, there are some hams who have been around a while who should know better but just don't care about anyone else except themselves; These are the LIDS.
You know the guy who get's on 80meter phone everynight just to say hello to the DX station that he has worked over 100 times. They aren't good friends. He just wants to show everyone else how easy it is for him to work them. After a half hour of his monolouge with the DX he says how he doesn't want to hold the frequency because there are so many calling. By this time the DX has had enough, so he says he must QRT. You folks on the left coase have a real hard time getting into EU but the LIDS just don't care.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by AE352 on January 11, 2004
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YEPPERS...kinda' makes us "No-Code Techs" wanna promote. NOT!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 11, 2004
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Circular. With threads. Shallow. Clockwise to tighten. Counterclockwise to remove.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Gee, this is a hard one! A LID is tha tround sharp jagged edge object, that is removed ny a can-opener!
But for real, my top 10 LID list.
1)Never using a device called a dummyload.
2)Will send a CQ anyway. Hey the other stations are a full 1 khz away from me. I will not bother them. not me!
3)Using an ultra power mic, with too much mic gain and 15 db of compression!
4)Ignoring breaking traffic
5)Being able to eat more than 5 rancid $5.00 hotdogs at hamfest.
6)Use legal limit for the shear heck of it!
7)Being selfish, and grabbing QRP contacts with legal limit.
8)I HAVE SEEN THIS ONE-IT IS SICK!--Putting Ham Radio/Hamfest ahead of your wife and kids!
9)Using the yallow,yallow,yallow voice test for on air P.E.P.
10)Kerchunking repeaters becomes a ham radio sub hobby!
Thats my 2 cents of literary trash!
73 MIKE
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 11, 2004
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Who's the DX?
OOOOOOOOOOOla OOOOOOOOOOOOla OOOOOOOOOOOOOOla
SPLIT SPLiT - UP UP UP
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Oh yes, OOOOOOLAH,OOOLAH,OOOOLAH works just as good as YALOOW, Yallo, yallo, to determain P.e.p SSB on air with out a care to others.
FM on air deviation is a different story for LIDS!
Simply go five,five,five,five,fiiiiivvveee!
If you did not chop out of the repeater, assume you have 5KHZ FM deviation!
73 DE MIKE
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by RADIO123US on January 11, 2004
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We have several LIDS in our area that use CB lingo and 10-codes on the local 2 meter repeater...
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K2WH on January 11, 2004
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LID LIST:
1) Whistlers
2) The long tuner uppers right on top of DX
3) The tuner uppers using that stupid tuner upper aid.
4) All of South America, and anyone not in the states
5) The up 5, up 5 police
6) Lids who call you a lid
7) Frequency cops
8) Just wanted to say hi to you. I just worked you
on 15.
9) You are a dupe (LID)!
10) HiFi audio users
11) OK2BJJ (sorry Jan but you are)
12) LA6WEA (doesn't QSL for nuthin, no sympathy here)
13) Me, K2WH for replying to this stupid post.
14) The original poster
K2WH
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K8KS on January 11, 2004
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Don't know the exact etymological origin of this curious term, but I sorta wish it never existed. It is used too frequently, oftentimes inappropriately and in a self-serving, pejorative manner. Everybody has done a "liddy" thing or two during their ham career, myself inclusive. Hopefully, most of the time, it's indadvertent. However, the word "lid"......dem's fighting words. We should save it for the worst offenders. Yeah, but then again, I guess calling deliberately out of turn when the DX requests stations west of the Mississippi may constitute liddom (liddism?).
73 y'all,
Kaz
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Hey, would any of you have the nerve to call Gordon LIDDY- a LID for short?.......I thought not!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KY8T on January 11, 2004
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The following site has an interesting discussion on the origins of the terms "ham" and "lid".
http://www.ac6v.com/hamlid.htm
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K0BG on January 11, 2004
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Articles Forum modulator Master Clinton, posted two articles dated Jan 11th. Just scanning through them both, I can safely say that one form of LID are those you can't spell, and/or don't use a spell checker, and/or don't proof read what they typed before they hit the post button.
As my father always said, non compos mentis.
Alan, KØBG
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K2WH on January 11, 2004
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And, Eham which (unlike QRZ.COM), doesn't allow editing of a post if mistakes are made.
K2WH
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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IMO: There are those like me that have ADHD. SPELLING AND TYPO'S ARE A SYMPTOM!
NEVER THE LESS PICYUNE OCD-ARS MAY RAG ON MY SPELLING,
I WILL HAVE MY PHD IN BIO-MEDICAL ENGINEERING IN 2 YEARS!
LET THOSE CALL ME A LID! I WORK WITH WORLD RENOUN SCIENTIST! SO BAH FANGO PRO RHE NATA STAT NO PRO RHE DOMINUS!
SO IMO, IT IS THE SELF APPOINTED SPELLING BEE FREAKS,THAT ARE LIDS!
ADHD IS NOT FUNNY OR TO BE MADE FUN OF MORON!!!!!!!
MIKE B.S.E.E,B.M.E,M.S.B.M.E!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA0ZZG on January 11, 2004
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By now, you have noticed that the term 'LID' refers
to a radio operator using some poor practice. It
appears that this term was taken from early railroad
telegraph use. Here is a paragraph I found that does
the best to define it:
ORIGIN OF LID My granddad was a railroad telegrapher. He said that the term lid came from operators who would put the lid of a Prince Albert tobacco tin on the sounder so they could copy the code easier. It was a practice that was frowned on by operators who did not have to do this and it became the slang used for bad operators. They would also say that such an operator had a "tin ear". 73 Mark WA0DC
Happy listening.
Dave....
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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hEY if YOU GOTZ A PROBLEM with my spelling......See my complaint manager, Helen Waite.
So you gotz sa problem....GO TO HELEN WAITE!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KB9CRY on January 11, 2004
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OF wrote: But, there are some hams who have been around a while who should know better but just don't care about anyone else except themselves...
It's not that they should know better, they DO know better and are being a lid on purpose. Yes we all make mistakes but most Lids are doing it on purpose. I don't know why but they do have a problem. I feel sorry for them really; what a miserable life they must have. Oh well we must not let them influence our behavior or else they've won (whatever they are fighting for). I'm starting to sound like the Donald so I'll stop. Phil KB9CRY
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by AB2PN on January 11, 2004
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Lids are poor operators
1.Lids don't use the bandplan.
2.Lids work within 3kc of an ongoing QSO.
3.Lids just start to transmit without listening or asking if the frequency is in use.
3.Lids work within 3kc of 14.070 (PSK-31 Freq) running RTTY, CW, Pactor and other Non-PSK31 Modes (seen this a lot lately).
4.Lids run within 3kc of the SSTV calling frequencies running Non-SSTV modes.
5.Lids answer other lids who are operating poorly or in the wrong place.
6.Lids work domestic in the DX windows.
7.Lids run QRO in the weak signal windows/frequencies.
8.Lids tune up on top of ongoing QSOs or on the calling frequencies.
9.Lids run the Mic Gain up just to see the meter swing and have signals that splatter.
10.Lids don't use dummy loads while tuning up.
11.Lids dont ID.
12.Lids play radio while drunk.
13.Lids spoil the enjoyment of Ham radio for others.
14.Lid Contester are Contesters who only care about there fun and have no regard for the non-contesters Please Note: Not all contesters fit this class, but sadly many do and I've seen an awfull lot of this.
15.Lids put more emphasis on radio than on their familys.
16.Lids try to use radio to make themselves something there not, IE: Wearing a call sign police type badge, etc.
17.Lids do not adhere to the Amateurs Code.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 11, 2004
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BG:
Lighten up on my friend JJH. You know not of what you speak.
P
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K3TIN on January 11, 2004
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Lids say things like: (AB2PN)
2.Lids work within 3kc of an ongoing QSO.
3. (the 2nd #3.) Lids work within 3kc of 14.070 (PSK-31 Freq) running RTTY, CW, Pactor and other Non-PSK31 Modes (seen this a lot lately).
I have no problem with someone calling CQ within ONE kc (or less) of my CW QSO!
PSK is a 31 Hz wide signal. Why do you need SIX THOUSAND Hz of "protected" space??
Lids indeed!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KG6AMW on January 11, 2004
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When the DX pileup gets that busy and rude, I tune else where. It's just not that important to me. In fact I limit myself to no more than 6-7 calls in any pileup. To have to listen to stupid operators is too much. How do these people even know enough to breathe.
KG6AMW
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by VE3XDB on January 11, 2004
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One annoyance I have observed lately is failure to observe the published bandplans.
Secondly, those who run power far in excess of that required to establish and maintain contact once a qso has been initiated.
Alan, non compos mentis? Don't be daft!
Best regards to all,
Doug VE3XDB
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W8PT on January 11, 2004
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Interesting historial derivation of the term lid.
IMO, one of the most distruptive and rude operating habits that lids typify occurs during rare and not-so-rare DX split operation when the lid TUNES UP ON THE DX transmit's frequency for 5, 10 or even 15 seconds at a time. These guys can't think that their 20+ db signal may affect dozens of other serious operators!
73, Rich, W8PT
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K8DXX on January 11, 2004
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First time I heard (saw) the term "lid" was in Electronics Illustrated, mid 1960s, where they published an article, "So-And So's Wonderful World of LIDS." It told the story of a YL visiting her boyfriend's shack on a Sunday morning. The OM, frustrated by the allegedly poor operating practices of those on the band at the time, repeatedly called those operators, "LIDS." Thereafter, "LID" became a favorite insult amongst the newly minted Novices and Generals at my Jr. High School. Those were fun days!
Anyone else out there remember that one?
Of course, a few years later in college, the term LID came up again. Imagine my confusion!!!
73
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by CODEBASHER on January 11, 2004
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Definition "LID":
Licensed Idiot, usually associated with Amateur operators who don't follow the gentleman's agreements, established rules and regulations.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K4JSR on January 11, 2004
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Lids can be flipped using a Wouff Hong and then followed with a thorough purging with a Retty Snitch. Maybe someone will come along and post a lidmerick
about this thread.
Best way to deal with lids is to either QSY or QRT
if they effect one's serenity.
There is indeed a very thin line between who is being a lid and who is not. The line is best defined by
whether the offending party is being malicious or merely ignorant. Ignorance can be corrected;
Malicious/stupid is forever.
73 and be courteous to one another. It hides what
you may really be up to! :-D
Cal K4JSR
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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Oh Boy PHILIP...CHILL! You know I can fight my own wars! TNX anyway.
So EHAM management has declared mis-spellers LIDS!
Well, they did me a solid and got rid of I.V. because of his terrorist threat sent to my LAB/OFFICE.
So if Cliff and MIKE think I am a lid because of typo's, I could care less! They did get rid of that I.V. TROLL! That is what is important! They may have saved I.V's life!
Frankly, I was hoping to blast 20 Watts@1032nm of YAG laser in I.V.'s face, if he made a personal visit to my office!
I would rather use the Laser on I.V.
I would not want to waste a perfectly good 9mm hydroshock on that skell in self defense of course!
Have a nice day!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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A limmerick
The once was the king of all LIDS.
He would give ex-lax candy to kids.
Had the meanest HENRY EXPORT AMP in town.
When the LID would key up, all the electricity on the block would go down!
A simple CQ on 20 meters, would key up 440 repeaters!
His signal was broad and wide, you would see the tubes glow from his house outside!
One day enough got sick of this LIDS tower of power.
So they gave his antenna a Ferric chloride shower!
73 MIKE
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NI6G on January 11, 2004
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JJH,
What DSM-IV category do "hi fi" audio doofusses fit under? Obssessive compulsive?
Does eHam represent the so-called "Trauma Bond" or Stockholm Effect?
;-)
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 11, 2004
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I havn't time to read the whole thread because it's late here. But, one post caught my eye:
K2WH
4) All of South America, and anyone not in the states
O.k. then. One of us is an idiot.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KK7WN on January 11, 2004
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In the 1960s lid was a slang term referring to a small amount of marijuana. Slowly the meaning changed to refer to a "pothead" and finally too a person who is unpredictable and likely to act in a socially irresponsible fashion.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC0ODY on January 11, 2004
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I've read various versions of the term "lid" on various sites and have no idea which, if any, of them represent the original definition. I think a lot of lid-ness can be eliminated quickly if people just listen before they talk... especially on pileups. Not hard to figure out if someone is working split, etc. if one just listens for awhile before they give a shout. Doesn't hurt to read books on DXing and belonging to DX clubs either.
My favorite DX humor website is the following: http://www.qsl.net/aa0mz/lti.htm. Anything you ever wanted to know about how to be a bad DXer can be found on this site, and will give you a chuckle or three while you're learning.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 11, 2004
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There once was a lid named Fred,
Loading up the springs of his bed.
He tuned the Posturepedic too long,
Then something went horribly wrong,
And now he looks like molten lead.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by F0EGG on January 11, 2004
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Band masters. Those who police, hog, and act as if they invented a band all because they have the real estate and money to be loud and hear well. It gets to their head thinking it's their superior intellect vs. the lack of ambient noise in their neighborhood. Low banders are the worse. Contestors next. QRP purest the next-
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA4MJF on January 11, 2004
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The lid from a tobacco tin on a
sounder is the right answer.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K8KS on January 11, 2004
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KB2FCV I had to laugh at your post. Sorry.
Saw some other posts and noted that a lot of them were on a similar vein as the vitriolic connotations a la the term "lid" that I had implied.
73,
Kaz man speaketh
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K7LAS on January 11, 2004
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K2WH,
"4) All of South America, and anyone not in the states"
LOL! That hit the funny bone. Thank you.
Mark
K7LAS
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K7LAS on January 11, 2004
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KK7WN,
"In the 1960s lid was a slang term referring to a small amount of marijuana."
I don't know where you are from but a "lid" was not a small amount - full bag - and the term was in use well into the 1970's.
Not that I had any first hand experience - or anything like that.
K7LAS
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W3DCG on January 11, 2004
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Interesting...the origin of the term LID has always been somewhat of a curiosity to me.
Now I don't want to imply that people who do the following, are LIDS, because, most who practice the following, are generally not practitioners of poor operating habits.
As it was explained to me, LID came from CW operators who would send "...R SOLID CPY," and so forth, soon after having already sent that via RST.
Prime example, "UR RST 589 SOLID CPI" translating to Perfectly readable Strong signals Perfect Tone, no trace of ripple, or modulation of any kind, SOLID COPY.
So, LID...
Keep in mind, however, this was when CW was a very serious mode, as it was in say- oh, during WWII, when CW communications played an absolutely critical role, where mistakes could result in the loss of life.
Any person bored enough to actually read anything I post knows, I'm a bandwidth bandit. I take up a lot of it around here sometimes.
Therefore, personally, I don't really like this idea anymore... because saying/sending SOLID COPY is no more an "offense" than sending "ARM CHAIR COPY" or my favorite, "LOUNGE CHAIR COPY" FOR STATIONS EXCEPTIONALLY LOUD and code practice oscillator clear.
I find these days, that careful application of the RST system is not as widely practiced as 20 years ago. I feel as though some operators (except for QRP operators), upon receiving a report of anything less than a 5 on readability feel as though they are not being heard very well and hanker to cut the QSO short- so I myself sometimes send a 5 for Readability, when I meant to send a 4- I'm afraid to offend someone who might misinterpret my less than 5 Readability report as something having to do with their less than perfect sending, but Readability is affected by all manner of conditions having nothing to do with the perfection of ones fist.
But- a 4 by 6 translates to a subjective report of "Readable with practically no difficulty Good signals." Nothing wrong with that, that is a great report.
Somewhere along the line, perhaps in an effort to accomidate more objectivity in reporting, the Strength readings became correlated to S-meter readings, which everyone knows, is meaningless except within the context of a relative comparison with other signals and how they are moving the S-meter on that particular radio being operated by the person who is sending you an RS(T) report, who is factually reporting your signal Strength accordingly. And there is nothing wrong with that in my book. I like to know how my signal is moving your S meter, if at all.
Just sharing the rumor I heard of where LID originated.
Cheers!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 11, 2004
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OK CANNIBUS
I remember from that a Lid was a large amount of cannibus. However the amount was for legal reasons was to be 7/8 of an ounce.
I saw this in DRAGNET a 1960's COP show. The dude was going to be arrested for an ounce. Upon weighing the pot it was just under an ounce.
California and other State drug laws make this classification.
A large amount less than an ounce was called a LID.
No feloney for intent to sell charge is applied for the just under an ounce. Just under an ounce was simple possesion for alleged personel use.
The SCUM DRUG DEALERS then got wise! They would carry baggies of 7/8th of an ounce. This way no felony
weight charge could hold up. So an amount just under an ounce was called a LID. Could L.I.D be a term like
legal in delivery? Who knows?
How this deals with poor operating practices, I do not know! I guess if you smoke some cannibus while on the air, you are more likely to do stupid things!
Some TWO METER activity I have heard sound like people are on something!
73 DE MIKE and remember the only DOPE worth shooting
is BIN LADDIN or any other terrorist!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 12, 2004
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There once was a lid from Nantucket,
Whose audio was like he was in a bucket..
Instead of finding out what was wrong...
He sang an off-color song,
Forcing O'Reilly to take all his ducats.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K4JSR on January 12, 2004
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Thanks for the lidmerick, Philip.
That lid named Fred who now looks like molten lead
has to be SOLDER, but wiser! I guess his sleep number
is definitely up.
Steve, my main QRP man, WAAAAAAAAAAAASUP? I see you survived Friday night. Just don't see two many Cals!
Mike, as cold as I hear it is up in NYC, I wouldn't
advise you to stick your tongue on the pump handle, laser pump that is!
You guys hang in there. And Mike, if the lids get to
you, just needle them with some Ringers and of course
some LID-o-caine!
73 Cal K4JSR Back to my padded hamshack (with a fan
dipole) and my meds.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W3DCG on January 12, 2004
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What's "marijuana," is that somewhere near Tiajauna?
Cann-i-bus? I wished you wouldn't. It's adversely affecting my property value.
It wouldn't have to, if they would only TEACH, instead of kicking back, babysitting, making them watch videos and then collecting a pay-check for all that hard work.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WR6MTR on January 12, 2004
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Hello All,
Most of the items that I feel constitute being a LID have been covered in previous posts.
I do have one to add though....
Using non-standard phonetics!! This is mostly done by DXers (AKA KNOW-CODERS) but can be found on any band during any kind of operation. The standard phonetics have been selected for a reason! None sound the same, and during poor comms, this is what is needed to get your call or message through. For example: "U" is "UNIFORM" not "UNITED" and "G" is "GOLF" not "GERMANY", these are not the worst though, I have actually heard "Z as in xylophone", Unbelievable!!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N7CAV on January 12, 2004
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A lid operator = Any veteran CW operator who answers a CQ call from someone new, like me; Then simply says 73, and starts calling CQ again because they found they had a new operator on the other end. This has happened to me several times. So - Screw your code. Screw your CQ DX and all the other CW garbage. I upgraded to learn and use the code, and ended up being subject to elitist attitudes from other CW operators. Same elitist attitude that pisses off techs. Doesn't matter what operator class you are guys- They apparently forgot how difficult it was being new on the air. They only want +25WPM veteran operators to QSO with. Well- there won't be any new ones after they all die off because the NEVER TOOK THE TIME TO TEACH THEM!!
I'm voting to screw your code and eliminate the spectrum allocated to it.
N7CAV
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by CODEBASHER on January 12, 2004
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That's it N7CAV get on 'em. give 'em the what for!
We knew what you have discovered without having gone through the pain of trying to learn a forsaken mode.
All you need to do is read their comments to see the attitude they have!
Even if the ARRL votes to keep the code requirement, I think the FCC will drop it sooner or later anyway. Less paperwork for them to do. Anyway welcome to the No-Code side of the great debate.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K0GSL on January 12, 2004
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Latency Induced Dimensia - Sometimes called Meeker County Syndrom .
Ha! Ha!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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NI6G, you have asked a psych question?
There are 3 total cop out answers that all those in medicine use, when they do not want to answer your question!
You know them. Bet your in the field too and want to do an IP number on me. IP refers to a ham I am having an E-war with.
But OK, I will give you the big cop out answers visa-vi
DSM-IV 300 codes.
OK your the patient asking questions......
The LID shrink replies......
1)WHAT DO YOU THINK!
2)WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU!
3)WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO YOU, WHAT I THINK ON SAID ISSUE!
YUP...those are the 3 cop out answers a shink, MSW, psycologist will use! really!
YOU want me to pathologise EHAM! Are you crazy or am I crazy! Stockholm sydrome-the captives capitulate to the perps...that does not fly!
We have bipolar transistors! That is a fact!
I guess FETS are better because they are less biased?!
A resistor can be said to be anti-social?
I can give you some very good(LID) advice on committing suicide with a gun (GOOD advice-sic).
Lets not go thier!
ohhhh..How about I ask you a question?
If you play Russian roulette with a fully loaded automatic, do you win or lose?
73 and sick laughs MIKE
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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aNOTHER LIMMERICK
This one is called 1 kilowatt truck schmuck!
There was one heck of a trucker named tucker.
He had his copper electronics illegal 10M CB RIG
He decided he had to be a mother trucker power pig!
The AD on ebay said 1 kilowatt 10 meter ham amp.
So tucker had his copper 10M CB and a kilo in his rig!
All across the U.S. of A, his filthy class C amp would splatter.
Tucker was also tweeking on meth. So splatter did not matter!
His deep power miked voice was his AM mode of choice.
Too bad he had a head on with a Rolls Royce!
What is the moral of this story?
Well I wrote this piece of literary trash!
Yes the story is immoral!
Maybe some of the other E-HAMERS on this one, should have a good ol bash on a piece of literary trash!
73 DE MIKE
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NI0C on January 12, 2004
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N7CAV reported: "A lid operator = Any veteran CW operator who answers a CQ call from someone new, like me; Then simply says 73, and starts calling CQ again because they found they had a new operator on the other end. This has happened to me several times."
There are some alternative explanations for what you have experienced. To name a few:
a.) Your output signal may be intermittent, due to a heat-related problem in your rig or an intermittent connection at the antenna.
b.) Your signal may have faded due to changing propagation conditions. This happens all the time on HF.
c.) Your sending could be difficult to copy. This is common with many new operators who get understandably excited and nervous when they realize someone actually is hearing them!
d.) The operators answering your CQ's may have thought you were participating in a contest or QSO party.
I would at least consider these more benign explanations for your experience before throwing in the towel. The vast majority of CW operators are extremely courteous.
73 de Chuck NI0C
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA7GKN on January 12, 2004
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A LID via Webster's : a source that confines or represses"
So,since in the beginning most hams were of gentle verbage. They decided to call an operator that does not play well with others "A LID"
They had many choices from "nipple-head, jerk, ass-hole etc." But in those more considerate times the term "LID" seemed to present a strong, a very strong feeling of those addressing the "poor operator".
Some of today's labeled LIDs are our fault! We have lost the motivation to teach new operators proper protocols. We rely upon the salesmen of equipment to inform the new user of the do's and don'ts!
We have the establishment of the "OO", official observer to point out potential issues and yes, to applaud good operating. But sadly the FCC seems impotant in addressing real problem operators.
We need to discourage qrm'rs and all the other stupid stuff that happens..Remember many are listenting to our conversations and antics. I myself try to present a positive radio persona so folks enjoy the experience and want to come back for another chat. You might want to think about how you represent yourself...
do you "butt-um" a lot? do you use double negatives?
"I don't want none"? do you destroy the english language with poor grammer? Do you refer to yourself as "we"? Do you say "I got no..." instead of "I don't have any...." you get the idea.
there are levels of being a LID, so strive to improve yourself and become the best Ham out there
ka7gkn
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K8KS on January 12, 2004
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Re: a previous post.
Yes, I do agree in principle that we should stay as much as possible with standard phonetics. I respect that. However, when the other station is having trouble copying your callsign with the standard phonetics, it really is not a bad idea to complement the missing letter with several alternative phonetics. For instance, if the station is having a hard time copying the "S" in my callsign, I would sometimes say, "S as in Sierra, Santiago, Sugar, etc." until the info gets through. Remember, we should adapt and adopt to the occasion, ie. think, think, think. We are not rigid automatons without deductive skills. It can make the difference in getting making a successful contact versus a broken one.
I also enjoy some witty phonetics. It puts the QSO in a lighter, perhaps friendlier mood.....an icebreaker, shall I say. Of course, the cutesy phonetics should NOT totally replace the standard. It's nice to break the ice, but one should probably revert to the standard after the initial icebreaker.
Only when talking with German-speaking hams, I occasionally use German standard phonetics (ie., Anton, Berta, Caesar, etc., etc., and then "hier kommt wieder KAUFMAN Acht KAUFMANN SAMUEL" for "K8KS returning"). They love it. In the heat of the QSO, I have to admit I have occasionally forgotten to also use standard English phonetics. That wasn't too cool on my part and that was "liddy" of me. Mea culpa.
Have fun y'all.
Kaz
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by AB2PN on January 12, 2004
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In response to Larry K3TIN's post:
--
by K3TIN on January 11, 2004
...
I have no problem with someone calling CQ within ONE kc (or less) of my CW QSO!
PSK is a 31 Hz wide signal. Why do you need SIX THOUSAND Hz of "protected" space??
Lids indeed!
--
Seeing from your entry in QRZ that you run PSK31 I would assume that you know this but I will post it for the benefit of others.
While yes PSK31 only requires 31 hz of space since it is a narrow band mode it is normally run using the USB filters on your radio that are typically around 2.4 kc wide.
Additionally PSK31 Ops usually only run around 25 watts output.
In typical PSK31 operation you tune your radio to 14.070 Mhz USB and then use the program (DigiPan, etc.) to vary your audio tones and provide for tuning, by setting up this way it allows the waterfall to work properly and you use the waterfall to “see” the other stations for tuning, etc.
Now when a CW (or other non-PSK31) station fires up in the PSK window what happens it that it causes the AGC to pump in the receiver and wipes out the PSK31 QSOs in progress.
So your 1 kc CW signal (allowing for key clicks, etc) can potentially wipe out the entire 3 kc PSK31 window disturbing many QSOs in the process.
Now yes you probably could snuggle in a little closer than 3 kc under 14.070 but why would you want to knowing that you could potentially cause harmful interference to all the ongoing QSOs and be in violation of the regs.
From point 13 of my previous post “Lids spoil the enjoyment of Ham radio for others.”
Now I have a 60 hz CW filter in my radio, but I'm sure you would not enjoy it if I fire up a KW of CW within 100 hz when your trying to work a rare weak one and start calling CQ.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by AD7DB on January 12, 2004
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I got into this discussion late, but I thought that LID originally stood for "lousy inconsiderate dummy."
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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If we were to VOTE for the correct answer to LID?WA4MJF gets my vote as the right one.
However, many of the other answers sound good too.
HHmmmmm, any body up for a VOTE? Or should we all do some more creative thinking of the LID origin.
What would Sam Morse's vote be?
Could it have been from the old wired telegraph days?
OK the tobbaco tin, was that chewing tobbaco, or smoking tobbaco? What brand? and who was the Vice president that day?
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K0RFD on January 12, 2004
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While I believe that the Prince Albert etymology is correct, I feel that current usage of the term LID should be reserved for describing any Ham who calls another Ham a LID.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W7TJ on January 12, 2004
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I thought I'd pretty well seen most of the poor operating habits in my years on the bands...guess not- at least the Local Lid had sense enough to remove his Ham Call plates ( as if he was qualifed to display them) to avoid local ridicule...guess the old saying is "no one is completely useless; they can always serve as a bad example." Example of a Local LID:
1. Use Mediocre equipment; especially an amplifier that
puts out alot white noise and Band clutter AND...be
sure and use this AMP when unecessary, conditions do
not warrant, or just to advertise one's presence.
2. Call CQ with out checking the frequency ( either by
actual listening !! or checking the DX spotting net
work...even if you hear a QSO, be sure & call CQ
within 3 KCs to advertise your presence - little and
insignificant as it is for competitive purposes.
4. Be sure & ragchew with locals during DX openings on
the Bands - especially in narrow DX Windows.
5. IF you are not getting the ample notice you deserve,
OR are frustrated with your inability to get in the
DX Stations Log, go mobile & drive around town and
call mindless CQs on the DX bands hoping you will
get lucky, some DX station will feel sorry for you,
or just advertise that you were there during the
openings and " Called with your District "
6. On SSB, make certain you use a mis-matched Mic for
the rig, run the gain high to insure you display
that unforgettable "Wax Paper over the Mic Audio"
7. Finally, always be sure you operating style is not
skill based, but Compulsive/Obsessive and Boorish.
By all means, do not have a phone, and if someone
does question your operating style; always display
attitude of confrontation and non-cooperation.
These observations may be somewhat entertaining,
however I would bet they are fairly representative
some of the poorer operating practices of operators
who should exhibit more common sense, but choose not
to do so. - Randy W7TJ
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W8RCA on January 12, 2004
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Let me add my top 10 list of pet peeves:
1. I have a name not a "handle"
2. 73 means best wishes so I guess 73's means best wishes and wishes and wishes and wishes? Or how about saying "Best Regards" to you. It ain't CW ya know, it's phone for cripes sake.
3. Breaking in to a QSO and saying how's my radio doin'. I don't know how your radio's doin', but if you want to take part in the conversation just say "hello do you mind if I join in?"
4. Audio compression...if you don't know how bad it sounds turned all the way up, don't use it PLEASE.
5. If you want to talk to me, please transmit on MY frequency, not what your dial thinks the frequency is.
6. QSL...QSL...just say thanks I got it all, please.
7. This is K4??? for I.D. What the heck else would you be saying it for??
8. Learn the correct phonetics please, we haven't used terre for T in a long time. Or Turkey for that matter.
9. Break! used to mean you had an emergency, if you want to chat just toss your call in there, and guess what? I'll let you in just as quick.
10. Guys like me who really think that we can bring back the "good old days" by pointing this stuff out to folks who really could care less about it.
Best Regards,
W8RCA
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 12, 2004
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>>>Guys like me who really think that we can bring back the "good old days" by pointing this stuff out to folks who really could care less about it. <<<
Nicely done...
"Best Regards"
Charles - KC8VWM (for I.D.) :)
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 12, 2004
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Here's my little note for those in the U.K. on 40Mtrs:
Please resist the urge to bust an ongoing SSB QSO with the word break.
If you really must bust an ongoing SSB qso with the word break then how about you say 'Break please - ""(your call). Then let us know why you could not wait for the conversation to end.
Thanks
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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ok GANG, A blast from the past.
Who remembers the call sign of that OM that would go CQ, CQ,CQ 20 meters....No lids, no kids, and no space cadets!
1)OK we all have many excellent idea's for what a LID is.
2)KIDS-OK the OM hated teenagers with General tickets.
3)SPACE CADETS- 3 things come to my mind
a)If you rig had a singe transistor in it.
b)Had to have a drake or a collins, so not to ruin his rig on RX!
c)You had the nerve to have a new fangled TS-820!
What was that guys call!?
Does that make him a LID for being so darn selective of who he let through his IF chain.
Heard the guy CQ twice many years ago. I could not reply back because I was a kid and had a TS-520S.
That OM is a legend. What was his call?
73 DE MIKE
Does anybody remember this LID de la LID?
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by CODEBASHER on January 12, 2004
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>7. Finally, always be sure you operating style is not
>skill based, but Compulsive/Obsessive and Boorish.
>By all means, do not have a phone, and if someone
>does question your operating style; always display
>attitude of confrontation and non-cooperation.
Gee that sounds like a hefty percentage of the ones posting on QRZ and eHam.net!
I guess that make the majority posters LID's
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WD0BCX on January 12, 2004
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A LID IS: One of those operators who set on a particular spot on 75 in the evinings. Listens to someone asking " Is this frequency in use ? , after 3 minutes asks it again and again. Then when he calls " CQ 75 CQ 75 CQ 75" ,OLD MR LID jumps up and says "the frequency is in use "
This is of course AFTER the CQing operator has listened for ten minutes to start with !!!!!!!
OR a LID is the guy on the local repeater who has the same conversatin with everyone he talks to in a space of three days, he has the IQ of three points above plant life. Does every repeater have one?
Just what has this "INCENTIVE" licensing done for ham radio?????
PS This is the same guy who tells you that your signal is really good today, of course he only lives 4 miles from the repeater.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 12, 2004
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The term "Lid" apparently came from railroad telegraph operators who would put the lid of a Prince Albert tobacco tin on the sounder so they could copy the code easier.
It was a practice that was frowned on by operators who did not have to do this and it became the slang used for bad operators.
They would also say that such an operator had a "tin ear".
Source:
http://www.ac6v.com/hamlid.htm
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 12, 2004
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Lids start their anti-social behavior young, before they are Hamlets.
They are the kinda dorks that start out by putting banana peels in front of old age homes and churches.
They are the kind that put doggie-doo into the coin returns of payphones.
They are the kind of people that give tourist wrong directions on purpose!
They are the kind of people that leave thumb tacs on chairs.
They are the kind of people, that make prank phone calls. Not that all prank phone calls are bad. They do the really stale prank phone calls
They are the kind of people that start off as surf nazi punk rockers.
They are the kind of people that tell ya the rig worked the last time they used it.
They are the kind of people that like to steal ball point pens from work.
They are the kind of people that turn into lawyers.
They are the kind of people that were really too much into disco and surf music.
They are the kind of people that are all for the death penalty, yet they believe woman do not have the right to be pro choice!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 12, 2004
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>>>>HHmmmmm, any body up for a VOTE? Or should we all do some more creative thinking of the LID origin.
What would Sam Morse's vote be?
Could it have been from the old wired telegraph days?
OK the tobbaco tin, was that chewing tobbaco, or smoking tobbaco? What brand? and who was the Vice president that day? >>>>
Yes vote..
Morse? No..
Yes it was..
Smoking Tobacco..
Prince Albert Tobacco..
James Schoolcraft Sherman was the VP of the U.S. that day...
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 13, 2004
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OK seems like Charles did his reasearch.
The vice president for a day was a trick question!
So we cannot vote!
73 and laughs.....OK,I buy the prince albert in tin sounder. BTW they should let prince albert out of the tin, he might suffocate!
73 MIKE
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 13, 2004
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Ah Yes, there should be a special prize for those that have the correct answer. NO!....No TS-2000's from GIGAPARTS!
The prize is a real $5.00 rancid hotdog from DAYTON-2003, delivered to your QTH by 5th class mail!
Bon appetite and 73 de---MIKE WA2JJH
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by TECH2003 on January 13, 2004
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A LID is someone who thinks that CW serves any usefull purpose these days.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WD9FRF on January 13, 2004
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Doesn't know, understand, or care about rules, manners or behavioral standards. Rude, inconsiderate, boorish.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KD6NXI on January 13, 2004
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Three words: CAAAAWWNNTEEEESST CAAAAWWNNTEEEESST CAAAAWWNNTEEEESST
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W2IRT on January 13, 2004
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"No Kids, No Lids, No Space Cadets"
That was the legendary motto of an equally legendary W2OY. RIP.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 14, 2004
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Lids vote libritarian, or some other party that gets less than 1% of any popular vote!
Lids wear stupid hats and are golf groupies.
Lids buy playboy for the science section only!
Lids buy computer systems that are in infomercials.
Lids look for bargain basement nose jobs.
Lids like moldy food
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NI0C on January 14, 2004
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Some of the biggest lids you will find on the air are the DX net controllers who identify their own callsigns phonetically on every over, but invite particpants to violate the law by insisting on just their "last two." Such practices are bad examples for new hams.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N8GNI on January 14, 2004
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WA2JJH
"No lids, no kids, and no space cadets!"
Wasn't that a 4 call that endes in dawg?
First name was the same as yours, Mike? But he isn't that much older then you.
There was a 2 call from way back that I've heard did the same thing. I'm old and it was way before my time!
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by AB7UW-MONTANA on January 14, 2004
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A lid, in my opinion, carries loser cb lingo over to 2 meter repeater operation. Recently I heard the term "destinated" This made me vomit! If you people cant refrain from using this sort of crap on the air go back to the bog in which you crawled out of. And another one, How about the same sort of person using a club repeater without supporting it financially. I can understand if one is dirt poor and cannot,but if the person had enough money to purchase a 2 meter tranciever I would think one could spare at least a five dollar bill every year to help out with maintenence. Thanks for letting me rant. 73 Vaughn N1XV ex-AB7UW
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by OLDTIMER80 on January 14, 2004
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The term lid out dates most of those commenting on it. It really does date back to railroad telegraphy. The yougster that thought it had to do with pot: Next time DON'T inhale! Lol!
Sorry that some have had a bad experience with c.w., but it is here to stay until the powers that be realize the future is in digital.
R.W.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by OLDFART13 on January 14, 2004
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Someone earlier said a LID is:
"They are the kind of people that are all for the death penalty, yet they believe woman do not have the right to be pro choice!"
So, let me see if I got this right: You want to kill babies, let tax payers pay to keep murders alive and I guess, drop any effort required to earn a license.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 14, 2004
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OK we seem to have 3 winners of the origin of what a LID is.
The correct answer is the wired telegraph price albert
sounder epic.
There is a prize.
I know non of the winners wanted the free TS-2000 from GIGAPARTS. I won it for the most stupid answers.
You lucky 3 just won......
An officail $5.00 rancid hotdog from Dayton 2003!
Please note contest rules: Mustard and relish are sold
seperatly.
You must fly into downtown Buirut within 6 hours to claim your prize! Congradulations! E- GORDON LIDDY HAM INC. Airfair NOT included!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K4JSR on January 15, 2004
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Old man Morse never could copy code himself.
It is true. Research it before you call me a liar.
He developed the code true enough, but what he had in mind was recording the dots and dashes on a paper tape and translating the recorded message using a copy
of his code. After a while of sending land line
messages his operators got to where they could actually recognize the code characters as they were
being sent. When they told Mr. Morse that they could do that he could not believe it and actually got angry
at his employees. They finally prevailed on him to witness a demonstration. He set up the stations and
arranged for a secret text to be sent. He then observed while the receiving operator copied the text
correctly without ever looking at the paper tape.
Needless to say old Sam was impressed. At that time
he started developing what eventually became the land
line telegraphy sounder that some of older types so
fondly remember. My grandfather was a telegrapher
for the ole Pierre-Marquette Railroad from about
1895 until he retired in the middle 1940's.
I grew up being able to copy land line morse. I
had a bit of grief converting over International
code. Morse had nothing to do with the international
code. It was an adaptation his land line code, though. There used to be a bunch of old Railroad
Ops that were hams and would use LL code on the air.
They built special devices to power the LL sounders
so they could copy each other. I haven't run across
anyone using the LL code on the air for some time now. But that is just the luck of the draw.
Now you NO-CODE/KNOW- CODE people just go put that in
your pipes and have a good smoke! :-)
Cal Neff K4JSR
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RE: Free Kevin!!
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by K4JSR on January 15, 2004
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Hi Loren, It is indeed a shame that you are having
such a negative time with ham radio and cw in particular. If I had heard one your CQs I would gladly QRS for you. As I have gotten older my code skills are not what they used to be. Besides that,
I am like most old folks in the hobby, neither slow
nor fast. Just half fast! :-)
You ask why hams don't "Elmer" new people any more.
I don't know. I used to to teach ham classes in the Atlanta area for years. I gave over 1000 Novice exams.
Most all passed and stayed with me until they got to
General or Advanced. Most fun I ever had in ham radio. I only gave it up when I got married and started having a family. That seemed far more important to me at the time, and still does.
I think most hams today reflect a microcosm of the
rest of the so called "REAL WORLD". People seem to want everything right now. Everything can be solved
in 30 minutes to an hour--That is how they do it on TV! Maybe if you would slow down yourself you might
find some of us who are just naturally slow and are
more than willing to help. I don't have the where-with-all to Elmer every new ham or ham wannabe, but I
do try to help one ham at a time. Like life--
One day at a time. 73, and I hope you find what ever
it is you are screaming for. Good luck and good
hamming. 73, Cal Neff K4JSR
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by M0WAC on January 15, 2004
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Hi, I have had fun reading some of the comments on LIDS and the definition there of. I suppose that it helps some folk to shout their mouth off at times, but there is an old saying that goes some thing like this--Always engage brain before putting mouth into gear. Maybe it is because I am not an American and do not understand but you all sound so stupid when let loose on any subject on eHam or even QRZ.com . May be the lunatic fringe now rule in the USA!
Best regards to all on the other side of the pond.
Keith m0wac.
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RE: Free Kevin!!
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by NI0C on January 15, 2004
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N7CAV-- another foul-mouth who has nothing but pent-up anger to contribute to a discussion.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 15, 2004
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N7CAV, understand your frustration. I feel the same way too.
How Hilary Clinton got elected makes me think people smoke crack on the way to the voting booth.
I did register for the draft when I was of age. Most of the people in liberal NYC did not.
Politics are making less sense these days. You would think it would not be that way after we were hit in NYC and Wash.
Ham Radio Clubs used to be of plenty. Then I hear when some O.T's try to start one, the Real world generation gimmmi slackers do not want to be elemered.
They feel they should have a right their $3000 space cadet rig and have full operating rights stat.
BTW thank you W2irT on that SK's call.
I think the idea of giving illegal aliens welfare and drivers lics. is another crackhead idea.
Do not lose hope. Maybe with more broadband internet
virtual teleconfering ham clubs could be a thing to do.
Kieth, this is a humor thread. If it bothers you so much, skip over the Monty Python like post's
You can also start your own E-pub and it can be as joyless and stuffy as Simpsons in the Savoy Hotel in London.
I remember eating their. They made me rent a tie. All americans had to sit in the back of this over rated
prime rib joint.
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RE: Free Kevin!!
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by KA1MUY on January 15, 2004
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"Go down to the CW segments of the bands. You will hear a LOT MORE CW QSOs than you will if you tune across the upper end of the same bands. Tell me I'm wrong."
Youre Wrong!
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RE: Free Kevin!!
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by N7CAV on January 15, 2004
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N0IC - You may be right.
If the local group of lids in Phoenix were to form a circus, I'd be the Ring Leader. A parade of lids walking down main street . . . heh . . I'll be the guy spinning the baton. Leader of the lids.
Value extracted from this thread:
"This is N1LID." Not: "This is N1LID for ID."
Several other good anti-lid operating tips. It never bothered me to hear Q-codes on repeaters. If you think about it- Those must have came from the Know Code guys on HF; Where else could a lid populate his glossary of elite ham terms?
I purchased an IC-718 about one month after getting my tech license. It sat on my bench for almost two years - I used it to listen to PSK-31 and CW, because they are easy to zero-in on. Having no experience with HF, I didn't know where to zero in on many SSB conversations. It wasn't till I actually nailed up a resonant antenna that I realized how much more of the world was out there. Now, with my upgrade, I can fiddle around and actually learn the where/what/how of the HF world. It took me three weeks to figure out what es was . . . I had to ask a veteran operator. es, tu, btu, rr . . . should be standard prosigns. heh . .
I'm a little sore with my experience as a General so far- true. Having a couple reply on this thread, or in personal email made a difference however. There are a few that have been around so long, and done so much, that having to slow down to 15WPM isn't a poor use of their time. A beacon of hope in my little heart.
In a fair world there would be recognition of CW as a backbone operating mode, along with SSB, and then a mixed bag of other modes that support the rest of the triangle. We don't have that. The ironic thing is how a person who thinks learning CW is too hard can figure out how to connect and configure all the interfaces and software for IRLP, Echolink, PSK-31 or other mode, with little difficulty. Hmm . . . Somewhere in there is validation that it isn't a 'hard' thing to learn, it's simply a matter of interest. But since there are masses that have no concern for the mode, and masses that do- you have confrontation.
Any ham should be able to recognize CW on a sheet of paper- dadadit or --. = 'G' and so on. From that, they can have at least a foundation to build on if they want to learn copy. We should keep the band plan in place- maybe update where the allocated modes shoud be and what they are.
Let the no-code generals advance into the upper side of the band, and give them a small segment of the lower-side as well. Then they can play with CW and determine for them selves if they like it. If they see the magic of it- with other no-code generals, or know-code guys that want to take the time to chat with them. The result would be a refresh of know-code hams, and a lot happier forum.
What will the FCC do? I have no idea. The fact is that there are still a good 15-20 years of well populated CW spectrum out there. If I was a commercial executive looking to steal ham bands, I'd want to keep the code- becuase that will kill the SSB side more quickly than waiting for the CW side to die if they drop the requirement. Seems the best solution is to let the no-code generals in, give them some space here and there to play. Keep the rest of the classes the same as we have now. And I recognize the Advanced Class right to maintain integrity of that class- And NOT to blend it with the extras.
Just comments from the number one lid.
- N7CAV
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by XE1UFO on January 15, 2004
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Here are a few ideas:
1. My elmer (WB5PUN) taught me that LID stood for Lousy Inconsiderate Dummy. They told me it went back to the landline telegraph days.
2. Some of the callers MAY have in fact been in the Midwest or West. Remember that you can change QTH and keep your call sign intact (which is really dumb, in my opinion.) There were probably dozens more who were LID’s...
3. By FAR the largest quantity of American LID’s can be found on the SSB frequencies of upper 75 meters.
4. I offer a nice certificate for LID’s. They are sent directly to the offender. It has a picture of an open toilet, with the call sign of the LID ... on the LID.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 15, 2004
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You know what? I can send and receive CW at 35 wpm. I love to send with a vibroplex bug. Does that make me special? No. Its just what I like to do. Do I care about the issues. Yes. Am I a pragmatist? Yes. There is a little saying out there that will help you prevent heart attacks from high blood pressure or strokes......its
"Don't sweat the petty things, but pet the sweaty things."
That puts it in perspective. Relax....
ITS ONLY RADIO
PHILIP
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC0ODY on January 15, 2004
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Nice display of incoherent trash-talk from a self-proclaimed "Number 1 Lid". I'm beginning to think this place has no moderators.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N7CAV on January 15, 2004
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KC0ODY, Your correct- no moderators. Hope you get some sort of antenna system operational at your qth so you can chastise me on the air instead of via forum if you so desire.
N7CAV - Number one on the extensive list of LIDS contributing to this thread.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 15, 2004
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IMO, the term LID only is for on AIR conduct!
Not EHAM postings
NOT Sense of humor, or lack their of!
NOT Grammar and spelling
NOT Religion or politics
NOT Creative writting endevours on EHAM
4 Ehamers came up with the history of the slang LID.
PURE AND SIMPLE!
The Term has beeen varified by 4 Hams that did the research. Old wired telegraph sounder, using a tabacco
tin. Prince Albert,smoking type.
It made it's way to radio-telegraph, then radio telephone.
A LID is Ham with poor,inconsiderate,danerous, and illegal operating proceedures period!
Knucklehead, chump, and the like or what ever applies to off air situations.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC0ODY on January 15, 2004
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I for one have no problem with issues aired here or even the arguments. I'm not about to appoint myself forum mommy, ready with the soap to wash out offending mouths (or hands). but I do implore that we discuss the issues without resorting to profanity. I can handle it, but I wouldn't want my kid or anyone else's reading all the swear words on some of these posts... that is all.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NI0C on January 15, 2004
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N7CAV;
I guess I was wrong about you-- you do have some things to say. But don't put yourself down as a lid.
If you have an antenna for either 40 or 80 meters and you want to schedule a CW contact with me, send me an e-mail to my callsign (that's ni0c) at earthlink dot net. Let's see if we can overcome the frustration in HF oeration that you have been experiencing.
Sincerely,
73 de Chuck NI0C
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NI0C on January 15, 2004
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N7CAV:
One more comment-- you said: "Any ham should be able to recognize CW on a sheet of paper- dadadit or --. = 'G' and so on. From that, they can have at least a foundation to build on if they want to learn copy."
Memorizing code or learning it visually by dots and dashes on paper is not a good idea. It must be learned by ear. When I see the dots and dashes that so many folks put into their comments here on eHam, I have to sound them out in order to read them!
73,
Chuck
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CW on Paper?!
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by N7CAV on January 15, 2004
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N0IC - The idea of character recognition (On paper) was thrown in there as a suggestion. I agree you have to hear code to know it; But a person has to at least have a concept of code to work from if there is any expectation of wanting to learn it. What's the vote on this? If they were to drop the code, how many would be in favor (Or willing to live with) at least keeping this idea of code recognition as a test requirement?
My logic is maybe if someone had the confidence to say "Yeah, those characters are pretty easy- I could do that . . . " Then maybe they buy a key and se how quickly it comes to send without looking at the 'paper dits and dahs' - Then they could start sending at a normal entry speed (10-15WPM), and completely pypass the 5WPM speed- Which would save them a LOT of trouble.
/. ? What do you think?
- N7CAV
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KI4RO on January 16, 2004
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Most of the operators on SKYWARN are LIDS...at least the SKYWARN I've encountered in the DC area.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by M0WAC on January 16, 2004
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Dear Michael (WA2JJH), The post does not bother me at all, it is great fun. Whilst you lot keep throwing all the verbal diahorea around I think it is better than Monty Python ever was!
As for eating in Simpson's at the Savoy in London- strictly for the tourist and the rich. All Americans at the back eh? Best place for them is at the front, much less chance of "friendly fire".
Keep up the good work I find EHAM a wonderful place for a laugh at other's expence, no matter what the subject.
Best regards from KEITH m0wac DERBY England.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 16, 2004
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Hot tip for visitors to London.
You may well find yourself in the Strand area. When nature calls ignore the few remaining public toilets.
These are legally reserved for drug takers and homosexuals. Bogs in fast food restaurants do have U.V. lights fitted to stop people finding a vein for heroin injection. Problem is that people just smash the lights.
For a more civilised toilet experience head straight for the Savoy hotel!
Through the lobby and then bear left. There is a very clean lavatory with attendant service. As you exit the cubical a smartly dressed gentleman will approach you with a cheery greeting and address you as Sir.
You can avail yourself of his extensive selection of soaps, colognes and fresh cotton towels - all for free!
You don't even have to wear a tie.
N.B. Similar cheery greetings in public toilets are best ignored.
Hope this is of use to visitors.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WJ2L on January 16, 2004
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Hello to all of the whimsical wise crackers here,
Wonderful article! But lets keep a "lid " on it!
Actually a fermenting discussion over the styles of
good operating practices can be quite useful in all the modes of telecommunications, our common interest. Appropriate operating practices should indeed be at least one the objects of the exams. In that regard
what is tested already, while appropriate, needs to be expanded. I think we have alot of privilages we need to preserve and to be thankful about. We are lucky to have eHam. net to actully do this kind of discussion w/o causing havoc on the air, which is what everyone know can happen when one starts calling another operator a "lid". Nonetheless, lets keep a lid on it!
Vy 73 de WJ2L/4 BILL,EX:WN3NNJ, KA2DVC AND N2HQK
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 16, 2004
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>>>Similarly, cheery greetings in public toilets are best ignored>>>>
English translation,
"Extending your cheerio to chaps wearing knickers around their knees while on the loo is considered most improper."
Cheerio mate.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 16, 2004
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Charles
I'm rather afraid that the problem lies with the greeter having his knickers down rather than the greeted.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 16, 2004
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N7CAV-- Another example of a Friday night episode of Comedy Central.
- BTW, how many beers did you have on the ground in that photo in your eham profile? Yeah you know, the one of you suited up in your commando rambo gear while using your laptop at the campsite? (or is it a basecamp - tactical assualt headquarters - C.P. - your mothers livingroom etc.?)
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 16, 2004
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>>I'm rather afraid that the problem lies with the greeter having his knickers down rather than the greeted. <<<
Agreed, I would much rather be greeted with a person with their knickers down than to simply be greeted.
cheerio,
KC8VWM
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID? KC8VWM
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by N7CAV on January 16, 2004
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KC8VWM- My apoligies for not having a picture as cool as your QRZ.com/eham profile . . .
- N7CAV
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID? KC8VWM
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by KC8VWM on January 16, 2004
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My apologies for poking fun at your earlier posted graphic commentary.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID? KC8VWM
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by K4JSR on January 16, 2004
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Loren and Chuck; Greetings from beautiful Downtown
Bethlehem, Georgia. I am puzzling over where in this thread someone suggested learning code by putting
the dits and dahs on a sheet of paper. If you thought
that I was suggesting that as way to learn code from
my little blurb about S. Morse, you are wrong.
The whole point was just to show that the man who invented the code never conceived of it being copied
by ear. That is all that was said. Mr. Morse was
indeed perturbed by his employees being able to
recognize the vaarious letters and numbers just by the
sounds made by their paper tape recording device.
As things have evolved, it has been proven over time
that the best way to learn code is by sound. Just
as Mr. Morse's employees proved to him. Apologies
all around if anyone else got any other impression
than I intended.
One other thing that I have noted since your expression of frustration, Loren, is that there is indeed a shortage of printed materials available to the new cw operator. Things that used to be made available to Novice Class Operators back in the day
when I still had hair that wasn't gray. Things like
cw operating manuals, closer to pamphlet form, with
information on standard abbreviations, prosigns,
(short for procedural signals) "Q" signals, RST,
and lots of other useful tidbits. I guess when
they did away with the Novice Class, Tech +,
and such they figured such info was no longer needed.
I guess "they" are wrong.
73 and good luck to all newcomers. May you find
someone close to you to "Elmer" you. CW for a
newbie has always been, and always will be intimidating for the first few QSOs. But you will
survive! I did and so did all of the old hams around
here.
Cal Neff K4JSR You *KNOW* Where! :-)
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K4JSR Codebook . . .
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by N7CAV on January 16, 2004
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If someone was to learn code, they should NEVER learn at less than 15WPM - My written code idea was aimed more at (In the event of dropping element 1) keeping some sort of standard where a ham has to at least recognize the characters by sight. Then the same ham would save his ears from being subjected to 5WPM, and move on to HF. Once that same ham was on HF as a no-code general, he could decide for himself if he wanted to learn CW; And if he did- He could then start learning at a reasonable speed, and not this self-imposed barrier of 5WPM. You would start seeing a lot of 10-18WPM new generals pop-up on the CW band at that point, because they would be learning at whatever speed THEY were comfortable with and not this 5WPM garbage that ruins hams and turns them off from CW completely.
Just get them upgraded with the familirization of the code and then once they hear it in real-world speeds, they can adapt to their own unique comfort level (Or not at all if they so choose)
My opinion, but seems like a much better plan than what we have now. To validate your comments however- I am NOT saying the eyeball is more powerful than the ear. Just want to use the eyeball to spark enough interest in the ham's brain to want to use his ears, and eliminate the 5WPM barrier at the same time. I'd bet most anti-code hams would learn it if they could have the freedom to adapt to their own natural speed.
If I found any CW operator handy-ham manuals, I'd gladly read them. Maybe one of you veteran CW OM's could find the time to populate a website with this literature as it's discovered . . . ?
Apologies to all with the outburst of frustration. The only really funny thing in this thread was KC8VWM's response to my response to him. After all the gunfire heard on this forum, seeing a potential flame war start and end with two, one sentence posts just made me laugh. If I ever meet Mr. KC8VWM, we'll probably both laugh. From reading other exchanges here, I'd opt for being in a different zipcode if others in this forum were to see eachother in person.
Anyway- CW literature is always good. Let me know if you find some of these 'old-timer' operating manuals.
- N7CAV
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID? KC8VWM
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by N7CAV on January 16, 2004
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Charles- I thought I selected a non-beer littered photo for that profile. My KD7PLU profile as the daytime version of the same trooper . /
73 N7CAV
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RE: K4JSR Codebook . . .
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by NI0C on January 16, 2004
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N7CAV:
I think you may be confused on the computation of code speed. One does not generally start out at code speeds of 15 wpm, unless you are talking about character speed accompanied by the "Farsnworth" spacing, which is elongated spacing to cut the word rate down. I agree that 5 wpm is excruciating, but one has to begin somewhere. That's the speed that most people can handle comfortably once they have memorized the characters. With practice (more fun with on the air contacts), speed generally increases rather rapidly.
73 de Chuck NI0C
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RE: K4JSR Codebook . . . N0IC Farnsworth
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by N7CAV on January 16, 2004
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Thanks for the correction- Natural Character Speed, and building up word speed as experience comes. What would the experienced CW Ops handle better- A farnsworth style QSO or a fixed charater and word speed slow qso? Since it would be slow either way?
I'm trying to keep "Clean Code" habits in mind when I send, trying to keep my character spacing clean, and forming good words; But the words are spaced as far apart as my little brain can form the next one to send "Clean" . . . Choppy sending, but no choppy characters. Is this a reasonable approach or is it better to try keeping all things uniform?
- N7CAV
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID? KC8VWM
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by KC8VWM on January 17, 2004
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>>>I ever meet Mr. KC8VWM, we'll probably both laugh.<<<
Yeah, your probobly right...
73 my friend
Charles - KC8VWM
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 17, 2004
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M0WAC, sorry for the is-understanding. Montey Python like non-sequeter writing seems to the style I rip off.
Actually my trips the GB have been just grand! Except for the Simpsons Experience! The Prime rib was not even that good.
I find the BRITS very helpfull and kind to Americans.
The woman do not have the paranoid behavior NYC woman do. I always had a good time.(hi-hi)
73 old chum, hope to catch you on 20M
MIKE
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RE: K4JSR Codebook . . . N0IC Farnsworth
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by NI0C on January 17, 2004
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N7CAV:
To answer your question re: sending code. I think your instincts are correct-- it is better to err on the side of too much spacing (between characters or words) than not enough. It is usually when people try to "hurry" their sending that it becomes difficult to copy. As long as the characters and words are clear, I don't think it would matter if you used "farsnsworth" spacing for your sending, though eventually you will want to reduce the spacing. I always find it helpful to listen to "machine" sent CW with perfect spacing in order to calibrate my own sending. The ARRL code practice (W1AW on 7047 KHz and other frequencies) is an excellent resource for this purpose.
73,
Chuck (my callsign is n i 0 c)
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N4LRA on January 17, 2004
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My Dad, W4YKC (SK) explained this to me many years ago. LID stands for "Lousy Inconsiderate Dummy". Any ham who operates in a manner which meets this discription, qualifies.
Best 73 to all.
Bill
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N8RAT on January 17, 2004
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Using CB lingo or ten codes on our local repeater will bring a quick reminder by the control ops the first time it's done. After that, you're gone. End of story.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KC8VWM on January 18, 2004
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hmmmm... what constitutes being a LID....?
Are we looking for a definition to the obvious?
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N7CAV on January 18, 2004
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LID = Any CW operator, any poor CW operator or any Anti-CW operator . . . HAhahahahaaaaa!!!
N7CAV/LID
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Grep Callsign from this thread = LID
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by N7CAV on January 18, 2004
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If you posted on this thread you are a LID
N7CAV
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by M0WAC on January 18, 2004
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Mike WA2JJH, OK there, it is easy to get it wrong, but I really enjoy both EHAM and QRZ. Thought this time I would spice it up a wee bit, sri it did not work!! Next time you are in England give me a call, I am from DERBY with some beautiful country side very close by. The location is about half way up the English map and central east-west; find Birmingham and we are a wee bit north of there. Good train links to London. Best regards to all on EHAm and all the readers. 73 de Keith m0wac.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 18, 2004
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M0WAC,OK great. Next time I have business in GB, I will look you up. Maybe we will just make Bogus reservations at Simpsons under Eric Idle or John Cleese's name!
Then you show up as Eric Idle and John Cleese, and say we just made the RSVP for the loo!
Actually a new type of LID makes my top ten.
These LIDS that will spend an hour QSO diddling with their DSP for audio!
OK, OM..I am adjusting the 200hz setting,now the 250hz setting, 300hz,up the audio spectrum. Ahhhhh-low
Ahhhh-low, ahhhhh-low, how is my audio, Cluadio? OK lets do the mid range for 15 minutes.
Atleast the banned HI-FI SSB guys knew what they were doing. Yes their signals annoyed some. However they were friendly and did not spend an hour tweeking their audi0 chains.
These new 1 hour DSP speech proc on air adjust guys are LIDS!
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by NUTONES on January 18, 2004
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LID LIST:
K2WH wrote the following 14 items. He failed to mention #15 below:
"1) Whistlers
2) The long tuner uppers right on top of DX
3) The tuner uppers using that stupid tuner upper aid.
4) All of South America, and anyone not in the states
5) The up 5, up 5 police
6) Lids who call you a lid
7) Frequency cops
8) Just wanted to say hi to you. I just worked you
on 15.
9) You are a dupe (LID)!
10) HiFi audio users
11) OK2BJJ (sorry Jan but you are)
12) LA6WEA (doesn't QSL for nuthin, no sympathy here)
13) Me, K2WH for replying to this stupid post.
14) The original poster"
15) Contesters.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by K1CJS on January 18, 2004
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One thing sticks out that nobody has mentioned yet as far as I can see. The one thing that stands out IMO is the posters who refuse to identify themselves (they use nicknames or other means) and only post to criticise and insult other posters who have differing opinions. So, the term 'lid' does apply to some on the eHam site, contrary to another posters opinion.
If those people cannot be identified as lids, then there are NO lids!
BTW, people who live in stone houses should never throw glass!!
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RE: What constitutes being a LID?
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by WA9SVD on January 18, 2004
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Or is a "LID" someone who degrades or makes fun of another ham for their own amusement or ego, with no means or intent to make a constructive comment for the betterment or improvement of others? It seems there are plenty here!
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RE: What constitutes being a LID?
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by NN6EE on January 18, 2004
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In our humble opinion "L.I.D" is defined as:
"Lacks-In-Discipline"!!!
:-)))
EE
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RE: What constitutes being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 18, 2004
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LID?
Those that use the plural for just themselves.
e.g. ' We are in the shack ' when there is only one person there.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KK7E on January 18, 2004
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May I add to this list two-meter types who insist
on tacking on "for i.d." to their callsign..and
those who add, "no traffic" on an ARES net, when
merely saying nothing at all would suffice.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004
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Anyone using 100uW (not mW) on 160m CW under less than optimal band conditions and/or antennae. I usually reduce power to comparable levels to spread the fun all around.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004
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I think my friend HEU is a LID because he hasn't posted near enough on my DED #6 article.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by G7HEU on January 19, 2004
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Phil
I'll see if I can put that right. Just bear in mind that the P.C. has been in bits whilst I found a P.C. shop that both knew what DDR memory was and had some in stock! So, it's seems the biggest LIDs are the computer super stores which are everything but super.
I couldn't put the computer back together for two days because I'd told the wife that it was broken and would not work until I'd bought the extra memory!!!
Here I come to the DEDs........
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004
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Just making a funny, if you know what I mean.
:)
PHILIP
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by N2MG on January 19, 2004
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AB2PN wrote:
> 14.Lid Contester are Contesters who only care about
> there fun and have no regard for the non-contesters
> Please Note: Not all contesters fit this class, but
> sadly many do and I've seen an awfull lot of this.
Though you try to "appear" even-handed with your "Note:", your lack of stating the converse reveals a bias.
There are plenty of frequency "owners" who will fire up on top of a contester. I've listened to them plan and implement deliberate interference during contests - this is FAR worse than the consequential interference of which most contesters could ever be accused.
Mike N2MG
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WB4TJH on January 19, 2004
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What constitutes LID behavior? Listen to some of the nasty language and the foul drunks down on 75 some evening. You can also find some real assinine ssb widebanders on 20 meters that would certainly qualify, taking up 3 times the needed bandspace to communicate and splattering another 10 khz. I think that any oprating practice that deviates from common courtesy and common sense will qualify. I also hate it when some guy says, "this is WA5??? for I.D."....for I.D.?....why else would you give your silly call if not for I.D.? Would you say "My name is Joe, that's my name"? Just a few pet peeves of mine...But I guess all of us are guilty of "liddistic" behavior at one time or another, but for some it seems a way of life on the air.
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by CODEBASHER on January 19, 2004
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Well folks the ARRL has finally come to a conclusion of the great Code/no-code debate:
read it for yourselves:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2002/03/22/4/]
ARRLs petition to the FCC
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by KF6HQC on January 20, 2004
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I thought everyone knew that LID stood for "License In Doubt". At least that is what my elmer taught me. The term is used when an operators license status is in doubt, usually by demonstrating poor operating practices (i.e. a technician using the HF bands). Also the term LID is reserved for a suspected or known bootlegger.
FSKarasek - KF6HQC
kf6hqc@arrl.net
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RE: What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA9SVD on January 20, 2004
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Well, to all the Liddites: (GRIN)
The term, regardless what origin you believe, or abbreviation you wish to believe, is simply an operator who uses poor operating practices. But it's not simply an operator who is new and doesn't know better, or who hasn't had an opportunity to learn good procedures, but an operator who SHOULD know better, and still deliberately uses poor operating practices.
And despite other "CUTE" terms, such as "License in Doubt" or "Lack of Discretion," it still boils down to a poor operator, whether it's someone who tunes up for minutes at a time on top of a DX station, calls a DX station out of turn (DX calls "9's" and a 7 keeps calling) and a gazillion other inconsiderate practices.
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by W0FS on January 20, 2004
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JJH, I remembered that "No kids, no lids" spiel and was going to say K2OY but am sure your memory is better--W2OY. The last time I heard him was like 39 years ago. I made the mistake of answering his 40 meter cq just after getting my general class license when a senior in high school. He said, "Well, well- a WAØ--just fresh off a school bus--and went on cq'ing. My first lesson in following the instructions of the party calling cq. Thanks for the memory. Clay, W0FS
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What Constitutes Being a LID?
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by WA2JJH on January 24, 2004
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Clay, W0FS , Your a braver man than I.
I was warned about the no lids, no kids, no space cadets OM-SK. You had the gusto to answer his detailed
CQ!
I guess if I had one of those DSP based voice changers, and made my voice sound older, and claimed to have had a Collins S Line...I could have got a QSL
card from the OM.
Bet his QSL card might be a collectors item one could sell on ebay!(hi-hi)
So he gave you the "chopped liver treatment"
That must have been a major bummer to you that day!
People told me that their were hams that imitated his very selective CQ! Sound like you got abused by the real McCoy!! Well you have bragging rights OM!
I listened in on him for a while! He rejected 2 hams in a row! I think his ear was so well tuned, he could here the .6 volt bias in a transistor.
With todays DSP, a kid can age his voice!
Thank you also for that memory!
73 DE MKE
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