Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
from
Bill Osler, KØRGR
on
January 13, 2004
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
In light of last week's earth-shaking events in California, I thought it would be appropriate try to generate some interest in performing basic research into a radio phenomenon that might be of great benefit to society in general.
My father, W6VPV, was a very dedicated ham. Dad would come home from work every night, and as soon as dinner was over, he'd disappear into the 'radio room', not to be seen again until the next day. Dad was primarily a CW man, and he spent the vast majority of his time tuning the lower HF bands, just looking for interesting signals.
Dad would often call my brother and me into the radio room of our house in San Jose, to listen to signals he'd found. In early 1971, he called us into the shack one evening to hear something strange.
Dad pointed out that all of the signals from Southern California had a warbling 'echo' - multipath distortion. These signals all sounded like Europeans coming over the North Pole at night - watery with ringing. This was very odd - I'd never heard anything like that before on LA-area signals . Dad made a special note of it in his logbook. We heard this warbling on all bands from 160 through 20 meters, as I recall.
The following morning, we all sat around the breakfast table, and someone turned on the TV. We were greeted with the news of the terrible Sylmar earthquake, that happened only a short while earlier! At this point Dad told us the rest of his story.
In years of listening on HF, Dad had heard similar things before. He heard it on signals from Alaska in 1964 the night before the giant Good Friday quake. He had heard it on signals from Central America prior to a major quake down there.
We all thought Dad should pursue this, and report it to the authorities. But, at that time, Dad's work required a very high level security clearance, so the last thing he would ever do was to call attention to himself. As far as we know, he never pursued it.
I've put this up on various bulletin boards and Internet discussion groups in the past, and I've received some interesting responses. I got lots of reports about 'ringing' radio signals immediately prior to and during the Loma Prieta earthquake years ago. There are stories on the net about research done by the Chinese and others into low-frequency radio signals that seem to be precursors to some large quakes. Perhaps these low-frequency signals somehow influence the way that the HF signals are propagated, resulting in multipath distortion.
Here are some interesting URL's about research into radio earthquake 'precursors':
http://www.riken.go.jp/lab-www/library/publication/review/html/No19/19-64/19-64.html
http://www.copernicus.org/EGS/nhess/1/nh1/99.pdf
Note that the second article, above, discusses signals observed at a number of different frequencies, including "initial observations at 18Mhz.".
I've always thought that hams would have the unique ability to monitor for this phenomenon. We are the only ones with diverse HF stations spread throughout the areas where earthquakes are common.
I'd like to see this pursued as scientifically as possible. I am not interested in wasting my time or anyone else's on another "In Search Of…" episode. But if we can put together just a little real documentation, I have no problem with taking this to the authorities or the academic community. But I need more than 35-year old memories!
What can you do? Be active and listen a lot. Listen for signals from earthquake prone areas. Make notes of any signals with multipath distortion on them - they will have a 'ringing' or echo effect. Then, check the news the next day to see if there were any quakes in the area of the signals you monitored. There are a number of websites that show the locations of recent earthquakes.
If you think you have observed this, please email me! I will act as a collecting point for these reports.
The reason I started to write this article is because I was listening a week ago last Sunday to 80-meter signals, trying to record some for an upcoming radio class. I was listening to a strong signal with a W6 callsign, and I noticed a weak, but very noticeable 'echo' on the signal, that reminded me of this.
I was very surprised the next day, when the big earthquake struck Central California! I suspect this means that the phenomenon can be observed even from a great distance away.
If your spouse gives you grief about spending so much time on the air, just explain that you are monitoring for earthquakes!
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 13, 2004
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There is some speculation among seismologists about the use of RF as a precursor events, especially after Loma Prieta, where fairly strong RF anomolies were noticed.
http://www.copernicus.org/EGS/nhess/1/nh1/99.pdf is a pointer to one paper on the topic of LF precursors.
It would be interesting for amateurs to document any thing that might qualify as a radio precursor.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K0RGR on January 13, 2004
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No, it's not April yet, and this is really not a joke.
Due to the leadtime on this article, the dates are messed up by a few weeks - this was submitted shortly after the big quake in Paso Robles.
I've also set up a discussion group on yahoo - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio_earthquakes/
for discussions and reporting of anything observed.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by N8YV on January 13, 2004
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I have read with great interest, articles about unusual radio and light activity that preceded past earthquakes. I appreciate this article too, although it is unfortunate that your father was apparently in such a compromising position that he could not report his findings.
The fact is, no matter how far we think we've advanced ourselves in our knowledge and with our technology, Mother Nature exists on such different levels, we still haven't figured it out.
You mentioned you posted your question in other ways---have you run this past any "Earth Radio" groups? I wonder what the ELFers and Nature Radio people think of all this.
Enjoyed the read!
N8YV
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K6BBC on January 13, 2004
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With his love for CW, it’s amazing dad found the time to sire any children at all.
But let’s not let this earthquake scenario get in front of the real issue here, a veiled attempt at another pro-code argument.
Note to Webmaster – April 1st is a couple of months away.
K6BBC, rockin’ So. Cal.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by N5NAE on January 13, 2004
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Back in the early 80's I was working as an exploration geophysicist up in Washington state. We were using sensitive instrumentation that measured the effects of metallic ore bodies on a pulsed "square-wave" that we generated in the ground (induced-polarization is the name of the technique). During calibration of the receiving system one day, I was plagued by intermitent slamming of the meters and readings before any signal was placed into the ground. There was nothing in the area that we could attribute the signals with and they were at least twice as large as any signal that we would typically measure. Everyone on the crew thought that it was very strange but after a while it subsided. We never could come up with any reason for it. We were working approx. 25 miles North-East of Mt. St. Helens at the time and had been in the area for about a week with no prior problems. The next day we were going out to work and the volcano erupted. I've always wondered if the instrumentation was picking up either the movement of magma or some type of signal generated by the seismicity that has been noted just prior to volcanic eruptions. Now I am wondering if these currents could also create distortions to RF or vice-versa.
The world is a strange place indeed......
R. Brown
N5NAE
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W9WHE on January 13, 2004
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"But let’s not let this earthquake scenario get in front of the real issue here, a veiled attempt at another pro-code argument".
Boy, no coders sure are one minded!
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KE4MOB on January 13, 2004
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I would start by looking at the latest Iraqi and Afghani operations. Would be interesting to see if they saw any changes around the time of the quake in Iran.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AG4RQ on January 13, 2004
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"But let’s not let this earthquake scenario get in front of the real issue here, a veiled attempt at another pro-code argument".
This article is as removed from the code/no-code issue as can possibly be, but because CW is mentioned just once, even just remotely in passing, the anti-coders have to steer the discussion in that direction. It wouldn't have mattered if the article was about using a kite for a 160m vertical antenna. The anti-coders would find a way to hijack the discussion.
As for the article itself, this is not the first time I heard this. I don't remember whether I read it on eHam, QRZ, in QST or heard a ham talk about it on the radio. All I can remember was that it was in 2000 or 2001 that I was made aware of this phenomenon.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K0RGR on January 13, 2004
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Well, it's definitely easy to hear the ringing on CW signals, but you can also hear it on SSB if you know what you're listening for. If it is multipath, as I suspect, I imagine it would make PSK31 difficult or impossible to copy - at least that's our experience with PSK on 2 meters with lots of multipath.
Note that one of the Internet sources I quoted was work done in Japan on over-the-horizon FM stations at VHF.
I had several reports of severe distortion of FM broadcast signals in the San Francisco Bay Area prior to and during the Loma Prieta quake in 1989.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WT0A on January 13, 2004
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Potato powered rigs were really popular in (where else) Idaho.
WT0A, ex N7QHH
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KG6MVX on January 13, 2004
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The original discussion on this topic was in June 2000:
http://www.eham.net/articles/887
It seems that there are enough hams and enough earthquakes that this phenomenon should be rather easily detected and studied, especially in California and Japan. I see somebody already posted a link to this discussion on Jim Berkland's site: http://www.syzygyjob.net.
Of course, we know that earthquakes are coming. This early detection, if reliable, may help save many lives. It is worth additional study.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by G0GQK on January 13, 2004
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The observations that your father made were very interesting. Information that you may be given from similar observations made by radio amateurs who use Morse code, and passed to an interested university study group could prove to be of great importance in detecting disturbances in the earth.
There will of course always be a small number of IQ zero's who will regard any investigation of this nature as a source of hilarity and reply with answers one would expect to receive from a twelve year old.
Earthquakes are the most serious of the natural disasters and most people who are able to read and absorb information will be aware of the large numbers of people who die in these occurances.
Any advance warning of such events could save many thousands of lives throughout the world.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by G3SEA on January 13, 2004
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The original poster's comments are vaild.
Similar effects on HF ( Ham ) signals from Japan have been observed with corresponding tremors a few hours later.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KC5UN on January 13, 2004
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Interesting subject. I've heard of some interest in research of relationship between seismic activity and RF phenomena, but it's been some time back and I don't recall any details.
One thing to remember is that there are numerous earthquakes around the world every day. The U.S. west coast usually has several (see http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/latest.htm). Fortunately, most are small, with magnitudes less than 4.0. So, correllating widely-observed RF phenomena with seismic events will need to have a magnitude component factored in somehow.
Tom
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by M0BCG on January 13, 2004
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its strange you should say that .
on 20th december 2003 at 1327z , california moonrise ,my moonset , i made a 50mhz JT65 EME qso with KR7O [io91do>dm07ba ]in california .
the moon was southerly declined here .
the 6m moonbounce condx at that time were exceptional , i also heard lance W7GJ through my speaker and even recorded it , thats how good it was .
i use 2x 6 ele yagis on 6m .
36 hrs later an earthquake hit california .
i mailed the USGS to tell them about this .
ive no real idea if the 2 are connected but when you consider the moon and the tides and the earths gravitational pull , there could well be a connection between exceptional moonbounce condx and a possible quake alert .
i would think that when we find very good 6m EME condx sometimes , there has to be a very electromagnetically uncluttered path out of our atmosphere to the moon, ie it lets more rf pass through the atmosphere rather than reflect part of it . .
perhaps all or part of this , along with the combination of other radio phenomena listed by other amateurs in this list of messages is a reason or warning to imminent movement of the tectonic plates .
would be worth a few academic people monitoring the situation and if it was a good warning then perhaps some lives can be saved .
nice to see some people interested in the situation .
good luck .
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AG4RQ on January 13, 2004
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Posted by by KG6MVX on January 13, 2004:
"The original discussion on this topic was in June 2000:
http://www.eham.net/articles/887
It seems that there are enough hams and enough earthquakes that this phenomenon should be rather easily detected and studied, especially in California and Japan. I see somebody already posted a link to this discussion on Jim Berkland's site: http://www.syzygyjob.net.
Of course, we know that earthquakes are coming. This early detection, if reliable, may help save many lives. It is worth additional study."
Thanks, KG6MVX. I knew that I either read or heard about this in either 2000 or 2001. I went to article 887, "Ham Radio Earthquake Detection", posted on eHam on 6/26/2000. I then did a search on my hard drive for this article. I save anything of interest to my hard drive either as a Word file or a Notepad file. Sure enough, "Ham Radio Earthquake Detection" came up as a Word file created on 6/28/2000.
For those who think this is a hoax, I doubt it. Unfortunately, if some ham placed a long distance telephone call to the authorities in LA after hearing an LA ham with a ringing echo to predict an earthquake within 24 hours, they undoubtedly would think he's a crackpot. That is, until they get a tremor the next day. But, you are right. It should be investigated and studied further. I've heard these types of ringing echo-like signals both on SSB and CW. They sound eerie. I just discount it as a normal over-the-pole phenomenon. However, if it happens with a signal that is not over-the-pole, it's definitely something to think about. It's also time to check for an earthquake in the area where the signal was from within 24 hours.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 13, 2004
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> Earthquakes are the most serious of the natural
> disasters and most people who are able to read and
> absorb information will be aware of the large
> numbers of people who die in these occurances.
Earthquakes can be serious. But it is difficult to determine which natural disaster qualifies as "most" serious. For example: more people die due to weather in Chicago each year than have died in all earthquakes in California since '07.
Earthquakes are like commercial aircraft crashes: the big ones get a lot of publicity because of the number of casualties in a short period of time. But, it turns out, commercial aircraft are safer than automobiles, just as earthquakes tend to be less dangerous than weather.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by CODEBASHER on January 13, 2004
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I will say I am a No-Code proponent, however the idea that earthquakes can possibly be detected is intesting and has nothing to do with the "Other debate"
I think it should be investigated as to validity and accuracy. This has the direct possibility od SAVING LIVES! not something to be confused with debates.
I hope that the Ham community would look at this as a possible rather than a debate of cw/no-cw.
I understand that the CW tone can be a better verifyer of distortion than the variable tones of voice.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KA4KOE on January 14, 2004
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Lame CODEBASHER, very lame indeed.
Compression of solids is well documented to release energy. The most commonly known one is the piezoelectric effect as demonstrated by quartz crystals.
An interested experiment, and this REALLY works...
Get a wintergreen lifesaver and a pair of good pliers. Go into a dark closet. Put on some protective goggles to protect against shard should the lifesaver disentegrate suddenly.
Now squeeze that lifesaver HARD with the pliers and watch it carefully in the dark room. You will see a flash of light, and if you're lucky, hear a small snap.
I tried this myself upon hearing about it. I have also heard of people reporting ball lightning in fault areas prior to big ones.
Just my 2.324423 cents worth.
PHILIP
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by CODEBASHER on January 14, 2004
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OK fine then lets turn this and all postings into a code war. you act like this to everybody? Or does geophysics also come under Ham radio I thought the you guys were taking a break from the war, but I see your just Sharks in waiting.
I read the posts and thought it was an interesting concept. untill some one posted something about the CW war. I thought we could be civil at least about this but EXCUSE ME.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WB6WLE on January 14, 2004
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oops, gotta change that call (w6wle)
Hmmmm......Who is K0RGR???????sounds kinda like wb6rgr
nah, cant be !!!!!!Maybe it was n0ff????????
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K6BBC on January 14, 2004
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"Well, it's definitely easy to hear the ringing on CW signals, but you can also hear it on SSB if you know what you're listening for. If it is multipath, as I suspect, I imagine it would make PSK31 difficult or impossible to copy - at least that's our experience with PSK on 2 meters with lots of multipath. "
Ya see, ya see -- it is about that darn code - the blite on ham radio.
K6BBC
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WD5L on January 14, 2004
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Bill,
Your arguments and observations are intriguing and certainly worthy of investigation. I recall reading something like what you describe years ago but I don't remember where. You would think that FEMA would be interested in the ability to forecast this.
I would like to deviate slightly from this for a moment however. I was in Honduras around, I believe 1994, and there were a series of earthquakes in Central America. They occurred in El Salvador and Guatemala, notorious for earthquakes, but also in Honduras albeit at low levels on the now outdated Richter scale. And I believe the earthquakes occurred in South America and as far flung away as Japan. Now around this time France was conducting underground nuclear tests in it's South Pacific Island possessions several months prior to the quakes. News media in Latin America speculated that the nuke tests may have triggered the quakes but to my knowledge nothing ever came of that. Given the rapid successions of quakes from Iran to California then Japan I wonder if there have been any recent subterranean nuke tests on the South Asian continent of late?
73,s
Rick
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KE2IV on January 14, 2004
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Author says:
"Dad would come home from work every night, and as soon as dinner was over, he'd disappear into the 'radio room', not to be seen again until the next day."
Now Dad wasn't rollin' doobies in there was he?
Makes me shake and quake just to think about it!
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W6WLE on January 14, 2004
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I've known both Bill and his late Dad for more than thirty years. Bill Sr. was one of the most dedicated hams and fathers I have known, yes, he was both!
i know you folks have a right to say as you want, but please be open minded.
Look at it this way: if the brightest mind in the Government and Research labs cannot yet come close to all the secrets of earthquake predications, then maybe they should listen to hams and amateur science folks!
Just remember, some experts said "radio" will never span the Atlantic!Now we have some dedicated hams picking up the signals from Mars.
Oh, yes Bill Sr., W6VPV was also one of the best Engineers in the field of communications (Pac. Bell)
Thanks , Dan
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by LZ2BE on January 14, 2004
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It was in 1988 if I'm not wrong and it was Saturday. I was at our clubstation LZ2KRS around 13.00 local time to make some preparations for next day 80m CW local contest. I noticed that there was a strange multipath propagation to Japan. Signals were much louder and distorted than normal ones for a Dipole + TS830S. 12 hours later an earthquake hit a town 100km south of my place. My first idea was that these strange JA signals were related to the earthquake.
73 de Bob LZ2BE
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W9PMZ on January 14, 2004
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K0RGR,
I'm sure you don't think that your post is a joke.
But, then, every time you hear "strange signals" do you take action to warn the world of the impending earthquake?
Did you hear weird signals on the 26th last month?
If you did, and you didn't take action, perhaps some zealous attorney could go after you for negliance....
Come on, it's easy to apply coincidince to occurance. Let's see a little more scientific analysis in the assertion.
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K4CMD on January 14, 2004
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A-HA!!!
I have at long last figured out a way to debunk the myth that those summertime static crashes on 160 and 80 are atmospheric in origin. Nope, it ain't so! We can solve this problem ourselvs and clear up our bands once and for all!
BAN LIFE-SAVERS!!!
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K4CMD on January 14, 2004
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A-HA!!!
I have at long last figured out a way to debunk the myth that those summertime static crashes on 160 and 80 are atmospheric in origin. Nope, it ain't so! We can solve this problem ourselves and clear up our bands once and for all!
BAN LIFE-SAVERS!!!
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WEATHERLAWYER on January 14, 2004
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> For those who think this is a hoax, I doubt it. Unfortunately, if some ham placed a long distance telephone call to the authorities in LA after hearing an LA ham with a ringing echo to predict an earthquake within 24 hours, they undoubtedly would think he's a crackpot. That is, until they get a tremor the next day. But, you are right. It should be investigated and studied further. I've heard these types of ringing echo-like signals both on SSB and CW. They sound eerie. I just discount it as a normal over-the-pole phenomenon. However, if it happens with a signal that is not over-the-pole, it's definitely something to think about. It's also time to check for an earthquake in the area where the signal was from within 24 hours. <
They get loads of stuff like this reported all the time and no-one pays any attention because the science is swamped with people who have brilliant ideas on the subject.
I wonder if you all would mind opening the discussion on http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=sci.geo.earthquakes&btnG=Google+Search&meta= or the sci.geo.earthquakes newsgroup of their preferred newsreader.
There is a board at the Syzygy site that reports on this sort of thing:
http://www.syzygyjob.net/jackcoles/messages/3358.shtml
but is seems to be a forwarding post for the Jack Coles of the link.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WEATHERLAWYER on January 14, 2004
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> I'm sure you don't think that your post is a joke.
W9PMZ, I am sure you didn't intend to show the world Mrs W9PMZ, gave birth to a boob:
> But, then, every time you hear "strange signals" do you take action to warn the world of the impending earthquake?
> Come on, it's easy to apply coincidince to occurance. Let's see a little more scientific analysis in the assertion.
K0RGR was actually suggesting some research. If you read the OP you might see that.
You would do well on the sci.geo.earthquakes board. There is a coterie of skeptics there who read into most of the posts things that aren't written, if they bother to read any of the posts that is.
They will welcome you there with open arms (and closed minds.~)
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by K0RGR on January 14, 2004
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W9PMZ -
No, my name is not 'Chicken Little'. My father was a ham for nearly 50 years before he died in 1983, and was on the air virtually every night. I've been one for 38 years of my own. I've only seen this strange effect a few times, myself - and I'm sure Dad only noticed it a few times, too. I can't imagine how long it took for Dad to realize that there might be a connection between it and earthquakes. Clearly, from some of the posts here, we are not the only ones who've noticed it and speculated about a connection.
At this point, I am not at all interested in making predictions. All I want is to encourage hams to look for the phenomena, keep records of it, and report anything interesting. I'm also interested in 'misses' where the echo is heard, but no earthquake ensues.
There are a number of professionals studying this - which should also help to justify this as a serious scientific topic. I think that hams are uniquely positioned to provide valuable input, both pro and con. If we can, over a period of time, demonstrate that there is something promising here, I hope to be able to share our research with the scientific community.
I have no intention of playing mad scientist - that is up to the professionals. I'm just sitting under the tree, noticing that once in a while, an apple falls on my head, and wondering what it might mean.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KH7L on January 14, 2004
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Wow! So many post, either an interesting topic or the sunspots cycle is on the down turn.
In Japan there is a Radio Astronomer who teaches graduate students on the prediction of earthquakes using radio waves. He lives in Yamanashi Prefecture. His webpage is all in Japanese.
He and his students predicted the Kobe quake 9 years ago. The Sendai 5.0 last year and Tokyo 5.0 last year all by measuring radio waves coming out of the earth.
He predicts them 1 week ahead plus or minus 4 days. Everyone laughed at him, until Tokyo had a 3.5 within the 4 days of his prediction. It's a good thing he was off on the numbers.
Rod KH7L, JJ0JIH/1 Tokyo
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W9PMZ on January 14, 2004
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"I have no intention of playing mad scientist - that is up to the professionals. I'm just sitting under the tree, noticing that once in a while, an apple falls on my head, and wondering what it might mean. "
You didn't learn the lesson not to sit under an apple tree so as you don't get knocked on the noggin???
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WH6DM on January 14, 2004
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Well Maybe the gov't might be interested in the research and willing to fund it with some sort of grant to a few ham's or a bunch. The point is someone set down write up a plan and summit it to the right office in the gov't and maybe get some grant money for new gear, recorders, test equipment, etc... lets get writting and set up our stations or imrpove our stations compliments of the gov't.
73 de WH6DM Alan
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by W6EZ on January 14, 2004
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There was some guy in the news here in northern California about 20 years ago that actually had a pretty good track record of predicting earthquakes by listening to LF radio waves.
I think the problem with this method was that, while there were some well documented cases where there was a very high level of LF radio waves released just before a quake, there were also quakes that hit and had no prior LF radio wave emissions so the method was not reliable enough to be used as prediction method.
The last time I heard about this guy he was still trying to find a way to detect LF radio waves before every earthquake.
I have also found a few web sites that address the emission of LF radio waves prior to and during earthquakes.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KA4KOE on January 14, 2004
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Well is anyone going to squish any lifesavers or not?
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K2WH on January 14, 2004
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And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.
K2WH
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by K0RGR on January 14, 2004
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I think the fellow in Northern California you're talking about was a government geologist for one of the counties in the Bay Area, and his theory was based on tides. He did predict some quakes, but never got the magnitudes right, and several times his predictions did not come true at all.
Some people in the East and Midwest may not know what I am talking about when I mention the 'ringing' of signals from Europe. On the west coast, signals coming shortpath from Europe go directly over the pole. They pass through the auroral zone to get to W6-land. This introduces a characteristic echo or ringing.
Experienced DXers out west can pick out the Europeans from the sound of their signals. You also get this effect from listening to a signal through a very narrowband audio filter (not DSP or SCAF).
My grandmother was one of the first women to get a mountain driving license in Colorado, but she was not a bus even though she had wheels.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WD5L on January 14, 2004
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RGR,
Forget about trying to correct other peoples' misconceptions. If they want to poke fun let them. There are plenty of those on this thread who think the idea merits more investingation.
I live in Houston, Texas where at least we have roughly 36 hours notice before a hurricane makes landfall here. This ability to forecast saves lives. Imagine having the same capability to predict earthquakes. Well it's simply unheard of.
Let the naysayers snicker all they want. The same was said of Thomas Edison when he invented the telephone. I need not go into how radio pioneer Nikola Tesla was smeared by such antics.
It's good that you took the time to post this suggestion and I hope others will give it sincere consideration and start monitoring the airwaves. If it's all to do about nothing then so be it. But if there is something to this then humanity will have a powerful new tool to predict oncoming earthquakes.
73,
Rick WD5L
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by W6EZ on January 14, 2004
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I must assume that if we, as hams, were to enter into this area of listening for radio waves and signals that were not quite right, and thereby being able to tell if an earthquake was forthcomming, we would have to use a properly tuned fan dipole to intercept these signals.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WEATHERLAWYER on January 14, 2004
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Someone explain to this newb that you are not talking about the usual ferrets:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/factsheets/docs/reception_weather.pdf
I was looking for the transcript of the story on this bloke you were talking about here:
by W6EZ on January 14.
There was some guy in the news here in northern California about 20 years ago that actually had a pretty good track record of predicting earthquakes by listening to LF radio waves.
by K0RGR on January 14.
I think the fellow in Northern California you're talking about was a government geologist for one of the counties in the Bay Area, and his theory was based on tides. He did predict some quakes, but never got the magnitudes right, and several times his predictions did not come true at all.
This latter one is Jim Berkland whose website is mentioned earlier: http://www.syzygyjob.net/
W6EZ is thinking of someone else who, having set up some radio equiptment in the lea of a mountain, was getting the same signals you are all talking about and couldn't understand why.
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by K0RGR on January 15, 2004
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I checked out the Berkland site - as best I can tell, the one most involved with radio on that site is a fellow named Jack Coles who claims to be able to make accurate predictions based on "static" on an AM radio. I've heard of this chap before - he has a devoted following out there. I hope I don't offend any of his followers, but I don't think what I'm talking about is in any way related to Mr. Coles' activities.
Mr. Coles seems to make a large number of predictions, mostly for very small quakes. Sadly, Richter 3.0 quakes happen all the time in California and most active fault zones. If you predict a 3.0 to occur in a fairly broad area within a 14 day window, you will probably be right over 80% of the time. That is a coincidence. Yes, the previous critic was right, we must not fall into that trap. I've never experienced this with anything but very large, and thankfully rare quakes. I've never heard signals distorted in that way by anything other than this apparently quake-related thing, and auroral distorion over the poles. The rarity of both events should greatly diminish the chance for coincidence.
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by W9JCM on January 15, 2004
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Wow it never crossed my mind but it makes sense. Thanks for posting the interesting article. This is what I like to see. And NO its not april fools.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WA2JJH on January 15, 2004
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Sounds, like a sound theory.(HI_HI) I saw those rockin and rolling radio test set ups in NASA TECH BREIFS as well.
I remember my old ham radio club station was very involved in providing phone patches after earthquacks
anywhere in the world. Of course satellite phones has rendered our service almost obsolete.
N.T.B is one of the better pubs for this kind of thing.
They are finding many new applications for RF.
There is also a technolgy caled L.I.D.A.R. That was in NTB a year ago or so.
LIDAR uses Lasers to detect extremly small amounts of BIO-TREATS in the earths atmosphere.
www.nasa.gov
NASA TECH BREIFS-defence contractor edition- You can search for RF geologic shift experiments, lidar, and ots of other cool things the GVT is spending you tax dollars on. The piezo electric shoe's were strange.
Excellent Publication-has the latest in all high tech.
If you have any ties with a university, done defence contractor work,public safty or are MOS (active or ret.) You qualify to receive Nasa tech briefs free.
Any 2 landers remember the mild quake we had 12 years ago. Mt cat was acting strangly 30 minutes before I felt anything!
73 DE MIKE
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by WA2JJH on January 15, 2004
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Philip I did the old wintergreen life saver experiment
when I was 10. I could not believe it, it worked!
For some reason the wintergreen is the best for this
experiment. Must be the alchol-acid ester that makes the wintergreen flavor.
Many of our artificial favors are esters of an alcohol and an organic acid. Carbolic acid being the first on that comes to mind C-O-O-H.
Ever do the experiment of putting a tooth into a glass of COKE. The tooth will be fully desolved in the soda in a day or so.
DO NOT TRY the chlorox-ammonia experiment!! It almost killed me when I was 10 years old!
Ferric chloride and aluminum foil is pretty cool. It is a safe experiment. Pretty spectacular too!
We are investigating using RF for all sorts of bio-medical stuff.
73 MIKE
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by K4JSR on January 15, 2004
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Hello everyone! Philip, the crushed lifesaver trick
can be duplicated with certain types of chewing gum
as well. It is caused by the same thing that causes
cellophane tape to become charged when pulled off of the roll; Likewise the tearing of the cellophane wrappers off of Crackers at your favorite soup and
salad bar. Just try to shake the wrapper loose from
yourself! I believe this phenomenon is called the
Tribeoelectric effect. This same effect is the bane
to electronic manufacturers as a major cause of ESD.
(Electro-Static-Discharge). ESD can cause a myriad
of problems, too many to discuss here and now.
But if we go back to your hypothesis of major plate
movement within the bowels of Mother Earth, not only
could there be the piezo-electric effect present, but
tribeoelctric effect as well. Get enough voltage
up and sooner or later there will be current flow.
Current flows and you get magnetic fields going.
Magnetic fields effect everything from the Earth's
magnetic polar fields, the auroras, and for the
conspiracy theorists present--the foot prints on the
moon. Remember that a short time ago we had a pretty
good tremor here in Georgia, but I don't remember any-
one commenting on the effects mentioned in this
thread.
What do some of you more scientific types think?
Try not to find *FAULT*!! :-)
73, Cal K4JSR in fairly stable Bethlehem, Ga.
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by AE6IP on January 15, 2004
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Hmm. What do "scientific types" think? I'll take a shot at this, having spent a bit of time in geophysics.
First, as the paper I posted the URL for pointed out, there are known correlations between interesting LF behavior and earthquakes.
Second, as anyone who has ever used a crystal set knows, there are well understood mechanisms that could be responsible.
Third, unfortunately, there are many different types of earthquakes, and they don't all have the same precursors.
It is number three that makes earthquake prediction difficult. What can be a precursor for one type of earthquake can turn out to be noise in a different situation.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WD0CT on January 15, 2004
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This is hilarious. If there was an earth quake every time I've heard this sort of thing, there would be nothing left of half the country.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KA4KOE on January 16, 2004
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Marty,
Don't take this the wrong way, but exactly what background do you have? I understand you're an extra class ham, a software programmer for/with NASA, with some background in geophysics?
Any degrees to mention, or is it all life experience?
I did the bagging groceries thing to start off with in the "dim times", which I think most kids did in addition to the paper route option.
Again, no negatives here, just curious, so don't get offended. You post in depth on any number of topics. For the sake of argument, I think previous posts may have been done before "engaging the grey matter". Please briefly quote that physics text discussing Ohms Law, as I don't have that volume handy, if you don't mind. Cooler heads prevailing, I am interested.
P
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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> Don't take this the wrong way, but exactly what
> background do you have?
Are you planning on hiring me for something? Cuz the only people I share my vita with are potential employers.
> I understand you're an extra class ham, a software
> programmer for/with NASA, with some background in
> geophysics?
I was a civil servant at NASA a long time ago. Take a look at http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Profile/history.html to
get a sense of what I worked on there from '83 to '89. I was principle investigator on the first three things on their list of achievements, and helped on three of the next four.
> Any degrees to mention, or is it all life
> experience?
yup. got me one of them degree things. even did me some of that graduate work stuff, mostly in mathematical physics. had too much fun and forgot to get a PhD, though.
> Again, no negatives here, just curious, so don't get > offended. You post in depth on any number of topics.
A small number, actually. There are an infinite number of things in the universe I know nothing about, and a vast number I don't know enough about to express an opinion on.
> For the sake of argument, I think previous posts may > have been done before "engaging the grey matter".
Sorry, I can't follow you. Whose posts are you talking about?
> Please briefly quote that physics text discussing
> Ohms Law, as I don't have that volume handy, if you
> don't mind.
You're local library should have a copy. Feel free to inform yourself. It is the standard introductory undergraduate physics text, after all.
> Cooler heads prevailing, I am interested.
The complete formulation of Ohm's law has to take into account a particular property of physical devices.
The simplification E=IR is based on the assumption that the law is being applied in circumstances where the property does not apply.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KA4KOE on January 16, 2004
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"The simplification E=IR is based on the assumption that the law is being applied in circumstances where the property does not apply."
..but for all intents in purposes, it works well enough for our electronics to function with reasonable certainty? Is this what you are saying?
Boylestad did not say anything about this special circumstance in his Circuit Analysis books (freshman EE), which have gone through many editions. Of course, the text does not go too far into the forest for fear of losing site of the trees. Hole and electron flow were covered in later courses on semiconductor behavior. No news there.
Anyway, probably shouldn't be discussing this in an earthquake thread.
Everyone should try the lifesaver experiment! There, back on topic.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K6BBC on January 16, 2004
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This is the most entertaining post I have seen in many months. The author deserves great kudos and praise. My only surprise is no post from Art Bell???
K6BBC
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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> "The simplification E=IR is based on the assumption
> that the law is being applied in circumstances where
> the property does not apply."
> ..but for all intents in purposes, it works well
> enough for our electronics to function with
> reasonable certainty? Is this what you are saying?
Nope. Not saying that at all. If you don't know when E=IR works and when it doesn't, then how can you tell that you're applying it properly?
('reasonable certainty', by the way, is a great pun when dealing with quantum mechanics.)
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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> My only surprise is no post from Art Bell???
Art's too busy with his radio show, and with being on air. I don't think he does internet, but i could be wrong. If you want to talk to Art, he can usually be found on 3.840 in the evenings. usually can hear him at s9+40 here in CA.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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Forgot to say something about this earlier:
> Boylestad did not say anything about this special
> circumstance in his Circuit Analysis books (freshman
> EE), which have gone through many editions.
This does not surprise me. The sort of circuits usually covered in undergraduate intro to electronics classes tend to be pretty simple, as you say.
> Of course, the text does not go too far into the
> forest for fear of losing site of the trees.
That's actually typical in undergraduate curricula. You just don't throw students into the deep end.
> Hole and electron flow were covered in later
> courses on semiconductor behavior. No news there.
One place where the simple version of Ohm's law does *not* apply: Current in vacuum tubes. Another: thermisters. Well, transistors, as well, but that gets you into Quantum Mechanics. We tend not to get freshmen too deeply involved in QM. ;)
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by KA4KOE on January 16, 2004
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Yeah, we blast their brains with quantum mechanics in late freshman Physics right after we hit them with Integral Calculus. Tends to straighten out all the folds in their brains to the consistency of Mom's cranberry sauce.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K2WH on January 16, 2004
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I once threw a rock against another rock and I saw a spark. Hmmm. It then occured to me if I threw enough
rocks in the correct sequence, Morse code was the result. I needed alot of rocks to send a short 5/5/9. My ham buddy, was using bigger rocks so his signal was quite a bit stronger on a nearby receiver. I believe he called them k-rocks. He was stronger then me. I guess I was using QRP rocks or P-rocks. We found that the velocity of the rocks, gave a corresponding increase in signal strength (gain). Therefore, for working DX, we recommend using a magnetic rail gun.
Anyway, we had a nice QSO, but after a short time, my fist was getting tired (including my arm), so we said 73. BTW, the rocks type was Quartz and you must wear safety goggles with this type of communications. I also recommend gloves.
K2WH
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K2WH on January 16, 2004
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Oh, I forgot to add, that if you throw these rocks manually and randomly with no real direction, you need a very wideband front end receiver preferrably a regenerative receiver.
If you launch or throw the rocks down a pipe (narrow is better), your signal bandwidth is much narrower allowing the use of a superhet.
K2WH
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by KA4KOE on January 16, 2004
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Interesting concept WH. So, one should also use dense rocks to be assured of a solid copy?
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K2WH on January 16, 2004
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Don't know about the density of rocks required but certainly, you need rocks with electrical properties. Using Quartz rocks as everyone knows, will keep you "rock bound" and have good electrical properties. The oldtimers will understand the meaning of the phrase "rock bound".
Rocks such as granite, are very good insulators so you would not want to use them. They just muusch out when crushed without much discharge. So, it seems Quartz is the way to go. Other materials (rocks) may work but the signal strength would probably be very low QRPP.
K2WH
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W9SZ on January 16, 2004
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This is fascinating. I am also an exploration geophysicist and have had some dealings with earthquake phenomena.
There is one well-known and documented phenomenon which is referred to as "earthquake lights" or "spook lights" that happen before, during and after an earthquake. There hasn't yet been a good explanation for these lights. They are not necessarily ESD. They aren't limited to earthquake regions, but there has been some interest in earthquake-prone areas in using them to predict earthquakes.
So I am not surprised that anomalies in other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum occur before an earthquake. Anyone noting such anomalous signal changes should document it along with the locations of the transmitting and receiving stations and the times. Enough data may show a correlation with earthquakes that could prove very useful.
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by K7LU on January 16, 2004
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>One place where the simple version of Ohm's law does
>*not* apply: Current in vacuum tubes. Another:
>thermisters. Well, transistors, as well, but that gets
>you into Quantum Mechanics. We tend not to get freshmen
>too deeply involved in QM. ;)
Another place near and dear to a lot of ham's hearts where the simplified version doesn't work is in the Earth's ionosphere.
I don't know what book you find the general form in (but I bet it's in Jackson somewhere.) Do I get extra credit if I know the answer without recourse to any books?
J(vector) = sigma(tensor)E(vector)
where J is current density, sigma conductivity and E the electric field.
The form of sigma (rank 2) kind of gives away one of the assumed properties of a medium where E = IR works.
Do I get double extra credit if I can quote the mnemonic device for using the simplified version without recourse to basic algebra?
E stands for "eagle"
I stands for "indian"
R stands for "rabbit"
Rabbit sees the eagle above the indian (R = E/I)
Indian sees the eagle above the rabbit (I = E/R)
Eagle sees the indian and rabbit on the ground together
(E = IR)
There, now I think I have all the bases covered!
73 DE K7LU (dit dit :^)
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K7LU on January 16, 2004
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Getting back to the real subject at hand....
A question for those who reported hearing fluttery signals before quakes. Did the subsequent quake occur nearer to the transmitting station, the receiving station, or near the path midpoint?
73,
Scott
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by K0RGR on January 16, 2004
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Well, in the case I remember best, it seemed to affect signals from the LA Basin, and the quake was in the northern end of the basin. I've always assumed it affected the signals passing through the actual quake area, or near the active fault. That's why I'm trying to make others aware of this, so we can try to correlate what we observe. I think a few of the posts in this topic make it clear that people have witnessed this, or something similar, and never associated it with quakes, or, clearly did, but never realized that other people had heard it, too. If it is caused by signals passing through the active fault area, then maybe observers in other directions would not hear it.
I often wondered if I was in the quake area, would all the incoming signals sound like that? I never noticed this effect, but others may have.
The biggest problem with this is that the big quakes happen so infrequently. People, including me, forget, and don't pay attention. I'm not on the air nearly as much as my dad was. But,I've gotten some very interesting responses here, and there has also been a lot more published research in this area. Maybe it's time for me to cobble together a magazine article. I'll wait until after the April issue, so there's no confusion. If people have hardcopy in hand, or can find it in an index, they tend to remember longer.
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by K6BBC on January 16, 2004
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I think MAD MAGAZINE might be interested in an article on this topic.
K6BBC
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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> Yeah, we blast their brains with quantum mechanics
> in late freshman Physics right after we hit them
> with Integral Calculus.
There's not enough math in freshman calculus to allow you to do QM. ;)
But at least QM is easy. There's not enough math in an undergraduate math degree to allow you to do relativity. <evil grin>
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AE6IP on January 16, 2004
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> I don't know what book you find the general form in
> (but I bet it's in Jackson somewhere.)
Probably. It's in Halliday and Resnick, the canonical freshman physics text.
> Do I get extra credit if I know the answer without
> recourse to any books?
Yes.
> J(vector) = sigma(tensor)E(vector)
> where J is current density, sigma conductivity and E > the electric field.
Very good.
> The form of sigma (rank 2) kind of gives away one of
> the assumed properties of a medium where E = IR
> works.
Doesn't it though? ;)
> Do I get double extra credit if I can quote the
> mnemonic device for using the simplified version
> without recourse to basic algebra?
As I have never encountered this particular mnemonic before, you can have triple credit.
> There, now I think I have all the bases covered!
indeed. eagle et all cracked me up. ;)
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by KE2IV on January 17, 2004
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OK Bill,
So have all of the scientists in all of the world in all the time until now failed to see what your Dad did?
Or are you feeling perhaps a bit sad and guilty that you didn't say goodbye to the OM?
So say 73 to the old guy and get over it.
73,
George
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by AH6GI on January 17, 2004
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A well known and well documented phenomenum. The first time this was observed was in the late 1960's at the University of Hawaii. They were monitoring WWVH and before a western Pacific earthquake, the engineering department noticed variations in the ionosphere.
Sorry, I don't have a reference but you should be able to get the story from the geo-science department at the U of H.
Those in this thread who detracted from your story about your dad, well, they can eat crow. He might have been late but sounds like he observed a real earthquake precursor.
Congrats!
de ah6gi/4
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AH6GI on January 17, 2004
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Here's the link to a technical paper on the subject. It refs earlier work in the 1960's at the U of Hawaii.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/its2001/Separate_Papers/5-02_Curtis.pdf
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by WA3RVS on January 17, 2004
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I heard a similar story from my late stepfather, a military research scientist who worked on radar and microwave projects.
He told me his group knew of microwave communications links in northern California that were degraded or disrupted before the 1989 quake, then returned to normal afterwards. I never heard if they determined why this happened.
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by K8UPA on January 17, 2004
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Wow I really can't believe all the negative posts. What is so hard to believe that two earth plates coming into contact with each other will not produce electrical waves capable of being monitored? The energy created here is quite impressive. Most people learn this in the fifth grade.
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by K0RGR on January 17, 2004
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AH6GI - Thanks for the info. Someone else posted a NASA reference about pre-quake 'ripples' in the ionosphere which would probably account for the multipath effect! I will definitely try to track down that U of H study.
WA3RVS - Thanks for the info.
You guys are having more luck with the research than I have in the last 5 years! I'm learning a lot!
KE2IV - Thanks. That remark was very painful. I hope it warmed the scales on your back. Which one of your heads did you use to pull that one out of your rectum?
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AH6GI on January 18, 2004
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I had a pal who was at the U of Hawaii in the 1960's when they noticed the fluctuations in the WWVH signals. Apparently they were monitoring WWVH to measure some quality of the Ionosphere.
He said that they had strip recorders running and hours before the earthquake, they saw weird fluctuations.
I'm guessing that what happens is that the stresses build up well before the quake. The build up causes pressure waves to move slowly in the atmosphere and this results in changes in the WWVH signal.
He showed me the clipping in the Honolulu newspaper about it. It's a real effect. I think it was discovered about 1967 or 1968 but if you research it using the references at the NOAA pdf, there should be a ton of info.
I've heard what we called back-scatter. It sounds like "c-c-c-cee-q-q-q-queue" I have no idea what causes that. I thought it was a multi-path phenomenum but I've never seen a good explanation.
I'm not saying that we should be gullible but just because soneone hasn't heard of an "effect", that doesn't mean that it's not real.
This one is real.
de ah6gi/4
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WEATHERLAWYER on January 18, 2004
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>Wow I really can't believe all the negative posts. What is so hard to believe that two earth plates coming into
>contact with each other will not produce electrical waves capable of being monitored? The energy created
>here is quite impressive. Most people learn this in the fifth grade.
On the other hand anyone who can believe "that two earth plates coming into contact with each other will..." believe anything.
Here's a suggestion I should have taken up in a previous post about electrodynamics and interplanetary action. Just suppose that the magnetosphere is the source of the earthquakes. After all pietzo-electrics/dynamics works both ways.
Click a gas lighter and the crystal is forced to spark but spark the crystal and....?
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WA9SVD on January 18, 2004
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I'm not sure this was mentioned before, but if this "Phenomenon" were real, that it could actually lead to a prediction, there would have to be a statistical analysis of when such an occurence (multipath propagation?) happens, which seems to be fairly common. You would have to compare how often it happens when there ISN'T an earthquake; and/or the proximity; the time differential; and the strength of any suspected seismic event. Since California and Nevada (CA gets over 90% of the total) alone get on the average 100-200 (sometimes over a thousand) seismic events per week
(http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/latest.htm)
the exact correlation will be difficult to determine.
Still, it's an interesting premise and deserves recording such conditions and occurences.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KA4KOE on January 18, 2004
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RGR:
Probably the most accurate description of our perennial troll, Boy Georgie, IV, that we've seen to date.
Be careful, or he'll send you'll threatening QSLs in the mail (unlawful, I might add), like he did to JJH.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KC8YVE on January 18, 2004
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To Bad this post went so negative. If we where to take a look at history, many things that are common knowlege today where not popular in there day.
I do belive that the earth was flat at one time.
There where no atoms, it was explaned as ethers!
I remember when race cars where dangerous, and sex was safe.
If nobody looks we will never know. it would be very nice if ham radio operators took some credit for information that can save human lifes!
73s
We are all humanity!
Tracy
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Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by W8LV on January 20, 2004
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I have been interested in this subject for a number of years. I first thought of this while watching a baseball player hit a ball in the old Cleveland stadium during a Cub scout outing. You see the batter of course from a distance, and long before you actually 'hear' him hitting the ball. If dielectric stresses build up along a fault line and then suddenly collapse, you should be able to detect that long before there is any physical movement or sound from an earthqwuake. (I guess building that Billy Wizzard Crystal Radio, and putting all of those pins in the map on my bedroom wall for each station heard was having some effect--hihi!) I have also done some MINOR experimentation along these lines, but I have no way to correlate that data, so I will say that my research remains ONLY a theory, as it apparently does with many others, based on these postings. I do not have the resources needed to make such conclusions, but I am sure of what is needed, and I am pretty sure that I am on 'the right path', as they say. And here is what is needed: Three well-spaced radio receivers, with broad-band spectrum Analyzers including the ability to monitor VLF/ELF, and with all stations of course able to 'see' all of this data at the same time, in addition to the world seismograph internet site in real time for coorelation (and triangulation). All three stations should use a common clock--I would propose this would be best acheived by a GPS standard link for all three (or more) stations.
The working theory is that the radio waves should appear long before the 'machanical''p' waves from an earthquake.
All of this is now much more possible becuase of both the sensitivity of receivers via DSP processing and of course the Internet and GPS.
These signatures, should they be found to correlate, may have other important implications in mineralogy, and may have important military applications.
Considering that in the "third world", there will never be the resources to 'earthquake proof' structures, if even a short warning could be given so that people could evaucate or at least brace for an earthquake would be so valuable to the world, even fifteen minutes warning would save many lives.
I am willing to discuss this topic, but we must heed the other applications.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by AB0TA on January 21, 2004
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To WD5L ....Edison invented the telephone ?
and when the germans attacked Pearl Harbor .....
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by KB1KNN on January 22, 2004
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WD5L,
AB0TA is right. Alexander Gram Bell invented the telephone, not Edison. I think you ment to say
"The same was said of Thomas Edison when he invented the ELECTRIC LIGHT."
don't worry you're not the only person who gets things wrong once and a while.
K8UPA,
The new curriculum requires that we learn that in third grade (at least in good old MA). Trust me i'm one of their guina pigs. (mabye the reason that my grades are so good is because they change the curriculum every three years so that i only get repeats of what i've already learned. AH-HA! so it is a conspiracy!!)
73
KB1KNN
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by N0WVA on January 27, 2004
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Edison also invented the phonograph. Another idea they said would not work....You guys should read Menlo Park Reminisces, pretty intersting history.
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RE: Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
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by WR6T on January 29, 2004
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Hello I am a denizen of Jim Berklands website and found your website during a search. You guys need to pursue this angle into precursors. It is real and does affect the ionosphere prior to earthquakes.
I highly recommend you visit Frank Condons board on the syzygy site, this type of research is his lifes work, especially pertaining to ULF precursors and ionospheric disturbances. http://www.syzygyjob.net/frankcondon/
Hit him up for some ionospheric links and info, he's got plenty....
Some more links for you:
http://www.geo-seismic-labs.org/GSL/gsl_live.htm
http://www.syzygyjob.net/frankcondon/messages/5826.shtml (before the Paso Robles quake)
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