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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free HF Access:

from ARRL on January 19, 2004
Website: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1
View comments about this article!

ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free HF Access

NEWINGTON, CT, Jan 19, 2004--The ARRL will ask the FCC to create a new entry-level Amateur Radio license that would include HF phone privileges without requiring a Morse code test. The League also will propose consolidating all current licensees into three classes, retaining the Element 1 Morse requirement--now 5 WPM--only for the highest class. The ARRL Board of Directors overwhelmingly approved the plan January 16 during its Annual Meeting in Windsor, Connecticut. The proposals--developed by the ARRL Executive Committee following a Board instruction last July--are in response to changes made in Article 25 of the international Radio Regulations at World Radiocommunication Conference 2003 (WRC-03). They would continue a process of streamlining the amateur licensing structure that the FCC began more than five years ago but left unfinished in the Amateur Service license restructuring Report and Order (WT 98-143) that went into effect April 15, 2000.

"Change in the Amateur Radio Service in the US, especially license requirements and even more so when Morse is involved, has always been emotional," said ARRL First Vice President Joel Harrison, W5ZN, in presenting the Executive Committee's recommendations. "In fact, without a doubt, Morse is Amateur Radio's 'religious debate.'" The plan adopted by the Board departs only slightly from the Executive Committee's recommendations.

The "New" Novice

The entry-level license class--being called "Novice" for now--would require a 25-question written exam. It would offer limited HF CW/data and phone/image privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 meters as well as VHF and UHF privileges on 6 and 2 meters and on 222-225 and 430-450 MHz. Power output would be restricted to 100 W on 80, 40, and 15 meters and to 50 W on 10 meters and up, thus avoiding the need for the more complex RF safety questions in the Novice question pool.

"The Board sought to achieve balance in giving new Novice licensees the opportunity to sample a wider range of Amateur Radio activity than is available to current Technicians while retaining a motivation to upgrade," said ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ. "It was also seen as important to limit the scope of privileges so the exam would not have to include material that is inappropriate at the entry level."

As an introduction to Amateur Radio, the Novice license served successfully for most of its 50-year history. The FCC has not issued new Novice licenses since the 2000 license restructuring, however. Under the ARRL plan, current Novice licensees--now the smallest and least active group of radio amateurs--would be grandfathered to the new entry-level class without further testing.

Anticipating assertions that the new plan would "dumb down" Amateur Radio licensing, Harrison said those currently holding a ticket often perceive the level of complexity to have been greater when they were first licensed than it actually was. "Quite frankly," he said, "if you review the questions presented in our license manuals throughout the years, you will be surprised how they compare to those of today."

Technicians and Generals

The middle group of licensees--Technician, Tech Plus (Technician with Element 1 credit) and General--would be consolidated into a new General license that no longer would require a Morse examination. Current Technician and Tech Plus license holders automatically would gain current General class privileges without additional testing. The current Element 3 General examination would remain in place for new applicants. ARRL already has proposed additional phone privileges for Generals in its "Novice refarming" petition, href="http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513084388">RM-10413, but the FCC has not yet acted on that petition.

Morse Code Testing Retained for Extra

At the top rung, the Board indicated that it saw no compelling reason to change the Amateur Extra class license requirements. The ARRL plan calls on the FCC to combine the current Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees into Amateur Extra, because the technical level of the exams passed by these licensees is very similar. New applicants for Extra would have to pass a 5 WPM Morse code examination, but the written exam would stay the same. The League's plan calls for current Novice, Tech Plus and General class licensees to receive lifetime Element 1 (5 WPM Morse) credit.

"This structure provides a true entry-level license with HF privileges to promote growth in the Amateur Service," Harrison said. "It also simplifies the FCC database by conforming to the current Universal Licensing System (ULS) structure and does not mandate any modifications to it."

Sumner concurred. "The Board started out by recognizing that three license classes was the right number when looking down the road 10 or 15 years," he said. "We need a new entry-level license."

"On the other hand, there's nothing particularly wrong with the existing Extra class license," he continued. "The change in the international regulations notwithstanding, the Board felt that the highest level of accomplishment in the FCC's amateur licensing structure should include basic Morse capability."

Sumner and Harrison say the current Technician entry-level ticket provides little opportunity to experience facets of ham radio beyond repeater operation. "The quality of that experience," Sumner said, "often depends on the operator's location."

Among other advantages, Sumner said the plan would allow new Novices to participate in HF SSB emergency nets on 75 and 40 meters as well as on the top 100 kHz of 15 meters. The new license also could get another name, Sumner said. "We're trying to recapture the magic of the old Novice license, but in a manner that's appropriate for the 21st century."

Proposal Includes "Novice Refarming" Band Plan

The overall proposed ARRL license restructuring plan would more smoothly integrate HF spectrum privileges across the three license classes and would incorporate the "Novice refarming" plan the League put forth nearly two years ago in a Petition for Rule Making (RM-10413). The FCC has not yet acted on the ARRL plan, which would alter the current HF subbands. The Novice refarming proposal would eliminate the 80, 40 and 15-meter Novice/Technician Plus CW subbands as such and reuse that spectrum in part to expand phone/image subbands on 80 and 40 meters.

The ARRL license restructuring design calls for no changes in privileges for Extra and General class licensees on 160, 60, 30, 20, 17 or 12 meters. Novice licensees would have no access to those bands.

Proposed Phone/Image HF Subbands (Includes Novice Refarming Proposal)

80 Meters

    Extra: 3.725-4.000 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)


    General: 3.800-4.000 MHz (gain of 50 kHz)


    Novice: 3.900-4.000 MHz (new)

40 meters

    Extra: 7.125-7.300 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)


    General: 7.175-7.300 MHz (gain of 50 kHz)


    Novice: 7.200-7.300 MHz (new)

15 meters

    Extra: 21.200-21.450 MHz (no change)


    General: 21.275-21.450 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)


    Novice: 21.350-21.450 MHz (new)

10 meters

    Extra and General: 28.300-29.700 MHz (no change)


    Novice: 28.300-28.500 MHz (no change)

Proposed CW/Data-Exclusive HF Subbands (Includes Novice Refarming Proposal)

80 meters

    Extra: 3.500-3.725 MHz


    General: 3.525-3.725 MHz


    Novice: 3.550-3.700 MHz

40 meters

    Extra: 7.000-7.125 MHz


    General: 7.025-7.125 MHz


    Novice: 7.050-7.125 MHz

15 meters

    Extra: 21.000-21.200 MHz


    General: 21.025-21.200 MHz


    Novice: 21.050-21.200 MHz

10 meters

    Extra/General: 28.000-28.300 MHz


    Novice: 28.050-28.300 MHz


Copyright © 2004, American Radio Relay League, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0CBA on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Another step toward the ultimate goal of a "box top" license.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8AD on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh Oh!!! It won't take long for the flames to start!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KT0DD on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm already hearing chatter on the bands about organizing an ARRL boycott because of this.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W2MC on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Boycott?

I think its a fair proposal, and acknowledgement of the real world.

I like it.

Jon
W2MC
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AD6WL on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I kind of like the idea. I would prefer three things different.

1.) They should give the new Novice privileges to current Techs, Tech+ and Novices.

2.) Current Techs, Tech+ and Novices should have to take the element 3 to upgrade to General.

3.) Current Techs should have to pass element 1 for General class license.

The new Novice class license seems to have a very good amount of HF privileges on the phone, digital and CW portions of the band. That is why element 1 should be retained for General.

Overall the ARRL has the right idea with the exception of the above-mentioned changes. But the current Techs should definitely not be upgraded to General without passing element 3.

My final though is that I wonder what groups like NCI and NCVEC think of the ARRL proposal.

73, Jim
AD6WL
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K2LES on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I see this proposal as a fair across-the-board compromise. The ARRL recognizes that in order for ham radio to sustain itself and grow, an overhaul of the existing license structure is in order to effect an infusion of new blood. The international amateur radio community has embraced these changes. It's time the US follows suit.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AB0SI on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KT0DD added:
I'm already hearing chatter on the bands about
organizing an ARRL boycott because of this.

It made difference what the ARRL came up with: SOME were always going boycott/complain/threaten to join the Red Army Faction/sell their CB amps etc. etc. etc.

While I would have done things somewhat differently (of course, wouldn't we all?), the League seems to have developed a reasonable approach.

Just in case someone cares (I can't think why anyone would), I have mixed feelings regarding retaining code testing. Since I am writing this on Monday, I am for code testing.

73

Paul AB0SI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This is pretty close to what I suggested to Jim Weaver, the Great Lakes Division Director.

However, I don't understand why the Novice class was not grandfathered into the the General class as was the Tech, Tech+ and Tech with code. While the Novice historically was THE entry level license, this was, in effect, taken over by the no-code Technician class shortly after it started.

While I support the idea of an entry level license, populating it with Novice and not the no-code Tech is a mistake, since these licenses are in fact entry level. In my opinion, it would have been better to include the Novice into the General and to craft the entry level license from ground zero, much the way the Novice license (and Technician) were crafted in the early 50s.

The merging of Advanced and Extra makes sense as the Advanced written test was....depending on whose opinion...more difficult than the Extra. In my case, the Extra was almost a gimme compared to the Advanced. I took the Advanced and the old 2nd Class commercial at the same time and the Advanced was tougher than the 2nd. While that's how I see it, others will dispute it.

Will the ARRL get burned over this? Tough to say. I always thought that they needed to sit back and wait a bit until the dust settles over the code question and perhaps commission some actual scientific based research among the membership and the amateur community as a whole. At least no one loses anything, and even the new entry level license has a good spate of privileges.

73
George
K3UD
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KE4MOB on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Great...another 8 months of arguing and name calling.

Are we ever going to be happy with the status quo?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0RGR on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think it is a win-win proposal for everybody.

Not that long ago, the written test for Tech and General were the same. When first created, Elements 2 and 3 were very similar in scope, and still are. In a recent VE session, we had 4 or 5 people attempt the General test immediately after passing the Technician. Without studying the General at all, all of these people,including one very non-technical XYL, came within 3 questions of passing the General. I think lack of Element 3 credit is much ado about nothing.

Now, we will have an opportunity to rewrite those tests the way we want them - please FISTS, help us create good technical exams for all classes. Some people will get 'lucky' but again, with the current dropout rate, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

There are things we would all do differently, but overall, I think ARRL did a great job of coming up with a fair proposal that will serve the entire Amateur Service well.

It's time now for us to come together. I fully support the proposal of ARRL and reject all others.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W1AI on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Most of this proposal is great.

However, it makes NO SENSE to give General Class licenses to people who have only passed the much simpleer Technician exam. Current Tech and Tech Plus licensees should be converted to Novice.

Are they planning to include bubble gum in the wrapper with these converted General class licenses?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I’ve always felt sorry for hams who start out as tech--they miss the fun of being a Novice, with Novice sub bands full of other “dumb” novices, and being on HF.

Plus, for me, the magic of ham radio has been xmitting a signal that bounces off the ionosphere, especially when the signal lands in another continent. I never got excited about making contacts via repeaters, even linked repeaters. VHF contacts via ducting was fun, but not enough to surpass the thrill of using the ionosphere.

I hope this new proposal enables new “Novices” to experience the same magic and FUN I had.

If the ARRL proposal comes to fruition, we will all have to work hard integrating new hams into HF culture.

It is unfortunate that the "new-hams" will hit HF during the trough in the sun spot cycle.

73
Bob
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W5EEX on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This looks like a fair and reasonable proposal....although it will probably be a long time before it becomes "law"....so if you are trying for General now, and working on your code, I would not advise you to wait for this to take place. Keeping CW alive, and offering some incentives for Extras is a good thing....I am happy with it. I only wish the Extra code speed had been put back to 15 or 20 WPM....but this is a good compromise proposal as far as I am concerned. I guess I will be mailing in my ARRL dues renewal next month afer all :)
73, W5EEX
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I've always been against giving free upgrades, and I'm against making the General a codeless license. Let me revise this proposal some. Retain Element 1 testing for both General and Extra. Combine Elements 2 and 3 into a new Element 3. The new Novice exam should be categorized as the new Element 2. Keep Element 1, 2 and 3 testing for General. Keep Element 1, 2, 3 and 4 testing for Extra. I like the new bandplan and new no-code Novice idea for the entry-level license. No-code Technicians should keep the same privileges they have now plus the new Novice privileges on HF. No-code Techs should be required to take Elements 1 and 3 if they wish to upgrade to General. The new Novice class lecensees should have to take Elements 1, 2 and 3 if they wish to upgrade to General.

Should this proposal be published by the FCC and open for comments, I will post my comments along the lines that I stated above.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W5LSD on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh great ... a theory dumbdown too.
Did WRC 2003 set the stage for diminishing
the written exams or could this just be
a $$$$$ thing for the ARRL ?
Most folks seem to favor tougher written
exams. And it's a fact that the majority of ARRL
members dont favor any flavor of codeLESS
HF license. Looks like the ARRL favors
revenue as it dis-assembles a formerly
proud hobby.
It's like thermal runaway ....
the dumber it gets, the faster it gets dumber !
And YOU can be a proud ARRL member and help the
dream come true !!
10-4 good buddies
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KF9Z on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am so upset I cannot express my true feelings beyond this (and I am a broadcaster by profession!)...

This idea is horrible! Since when did we give the idea up of working for things? If you want it badly enough you will work for it. If it is handed to you with no additional work you take it for granted. I love CW and I passed 13wpm code test prior top the rule change. Shortly after the new rules were in place I upgraded to Extra (and not because of the reduced code requirements as I am very fluid with CW and contest regularly).

That said I am VERY unhappy with the ARRL for this one. I have been a die-hard supporter of the ARRL in the past but I cannot defend the indefensible. This is outstanding in its stupidity. If you cannot earn it just wait long enough and you can get it handed to you. That is a sure fired way to instill respect for the hobby. If you are not required to work for something it looses all sense of accomplishment and desire to treat those privileges with honor and respect. Sure you can be an ass and pass your 20wpm code test. No ham on earth would disagree with that. But imagine the bands FULL of people who do not have the respect earned through study and tradition.

Oh well. There is not much I can do about it other than say my piece. And my piece is this...IT SUCKS. But that is the way the world is heading. Give it away as we do not want people to work for anything. That is not fair...the entire working for things thing. Count me out on this proposal and on the ARRL. My membership will lapse with out a renewal. I figured something was up when the League stopped selling QST at the book store. How can we attract new blood into the hobby if you do not promote your preeminent hobby magazine? I have it! GIVE AWAY THE LICENSE!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KK7AC on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes Darrin, KF9Z, you are correct...a some-thing-for-nothing socity. Its real sad. A change was about to happen we knew, but I feel a little too much is being let go and given away. I only respect those who WORK for something, not GIVEN to them. I too will let my ARRL go after its run its course.....I was going to become a life member about 2 years ago when they had a pretty sweet deal to do so. THE ONLY reason I did not take advantage of it was to see the out come of this very issue. Oh well, I guess I will focus more attention to playing the bass guitar instead of trying for the 200 DXCC mixed award.....it just wont have the same meaning anymore. Right or wrong my true fellings are that what I have has been cheaped abit. I still love ham radio, just not the same. -KK7AC
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W5AU on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Dumb Down to Zero has begun !

Quote from W5LSD:

Most folks seem to favor tougher written
exams. And it's a fact that the majority of ARRL
members dont favor any flavor of codeLESS
HF license. Looks like the ARRL favors
revenue as it dis-assembles a formerly
proud hobby.
It's like thermal runaway ....
the dumber it gets, the faster it gets dumber !
And YOU can be a proud ARRL member and help the
dream come true !!

------------

I wont be renewing my ARRL Membership. They
refuse to listen to the members. What kind of organization is this. When the majority of the
members say NO to NoCode, and they just plow
right on in there like nothing has been said.
This could very well be the end of the ARRL.


 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WB4QNG on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I like it. Would make a few changes like I have stated on another most. Main thing I would make it where you would have to keep this new Novice ticket 6 months to a year before you upgrade or take a general course in Ham radio. I hope the FCC gets on this soon so we can quit fighting over code or no code
Terry
WB4QNG
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
They didn't waste anytime, did they? Notice the date of this announcement was the same day they held their election for league President.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What I don't understand is why this proposal seems to be OK with most who have posted here. Many of those in favor of this proposal were vehemently opposed to granting no-coders a free ride on HF. At least they indicated this on other threads. Now, because the ARRL is calling for keeping Element 1 testing for Extra, it seems to be OK to trash the General. something is wrong here. No, its not OK to trash the General. I'm glad at least some hams feel the same way I do. I'd hate to think I'm alone on this issue. Even if I was, I refuse to follow the masses. I feel strongly on this issue, and I refuse to capitulate. Ham radio has been on a downward spiral for a long time now. Maybe when the rest of HF is a carbon copy of 11 meters, everyone will wake up - when its too late.

Talk about a slap in the face? Talk about a betrayal? The ARRL is looking to hand no-code Technicians a free upgrade to General. It is obvious that the ARRL sees the future of ham radio with the no-coders, and is kicking the rest of us where we sit. Members = Money. Money talks. B***S*** walks. My ARRL membership expires this August. I will give serious thought to this issue at renewal time. After this, all the ARRL means to me is QST and the "members only" TIS pages on their web site. I don't need the propagation report and the ARRL Letter e-mailed to me. That stuff is published right here on e-Ham. I can think of loads of things I can do with $39 a year. To say I'm "up in arms" is putting it mildly.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N7UQA on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
For crying out loud guys, I think this is an exelent proposal. I worked my way up through the ranks of Novice, Tech, General, Advanced and Extra and had done the 5,13 and 20 wpm code tests. I think it provides a good balance between the ranks and still includes a code test for the extra. As long as they follow the rules I have no problem with this. Besides, it would be nice to get a little more breathing room on the phone bands.

If all you are going to do is bitch about it, cancel your ARRL subscription, turn in your licence for cancelation and sell all your ham gear. The ARRL does alot for us hams, I don't always agree with the ARRL but they are the only game in town. Everything else is just a magazine subscription..



Craig - N7UQA
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WS4Y on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Sad day!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
UQA:

I may have to be a bitch about it, to quote you.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by LNXAUTHOR on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
- i'm not sure how to word this, but perhaps someone can chime in here with an observation (keep in mind that i'm a relatively new ham):

- is something horribly wrong with the ARRL? or is this normative behavior?

- IOW, is the ARRL an organization run by constituents and members, or is it an organization run by an 'inside' circle and outside interests?

- as a member, i have not been asked my opinion... i guess i should have been more proactive on my feelings? this is a good lesson for me...

- note that i'm not being publically pro or con regarding the ARRL's proposal here, just curious...

- i welcome any long-time ARRL members for a historical view on how the organization works...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4FAU on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This is great ...

but what really gets me -- why is it that no one complained that the rest of the world, 31 countries to date, has dropped their code requirement and no one complains...

but we want to stop our own American brotheren from getting on the air who doesn't want to learn another mode....

how ironic...

I say bring on the fresh blood -- maybe the average age of the HF'rs will drop below 70 .. or maybe the IQ raise above 70...haha

Brian
Amateur Extra
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
http://www.eham.net/articles/6468

Read my article earlier this year under the above URL.
Then tell me what you think.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3DCG on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
15-20 wpm for the most privileged class of hams in the US, was certainly a long-shot, over-zealous fantasy requiring larger spheres than I figured we'd have.
I thought, as likely as taxes being lowered. Once ratified, levied, however one cares to call it, permanence seems to be the naked truth. As well, the problem of what to do with the extraordinarily large numbers of existing 5wpm Extras, would likely be an administrative hassle of night terror proportion. After all, we are engaged in a war against terror.

Minimally, the proposal acknowledges the relevence of CW by keeping it in the Rule book. It helps us to know where we've been to better appreciate where we are, where we're headed.

All wishful thinking aside, it seems to me this proposal is pragmatic, reasonable, and sane.
Mild surprise.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W2MC on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting, KF7Z..........

Basically, you are saying:
"I'll take the free ride on the lower code speed, yet no one else should get a 'goodie'."

I WAS one of those who was "...an ass and pass your 20wpm code test.". I passed the silly thing, even when I didn't 'have to'...the rules were going to change, anyway (I am one of the last 'fast-code' Extras)....And guess what? I now have "bragging rights".....but I still dislike CW. I can still copy CW...not at 20 anymore, tho its still 'in there'. But I don't like it, I generally don't use it, and I could never understand the purpose of beating everyone over the head with CW. What was to be gained?

Now.....I can say I did it. But now everyone who follows along behind me must do everything exactly the same way I did?

That's nonsense.

Why were we testing for 5, 13, and 20 wpm CW in the first place? Why all this importance placed in CW? What was the value added for all that effort? Its only a operating mode....it won't kill you, like touching the HV line in a tube amplifier, for example. How many questions relate to stuff like that?

(And yes, it was effort. It took me almost two years to build up to that speed. And don't give me that "It builds character" crap. I've built enough already. If you wanna "build character" with something meaningful and Ham Radio related, go get an engineering degree.)


Jon
W2MC
BSEE '85
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"- as a member, i have not been asked my opinion... i guess i should have been more proactive on my feelings? this is a good lesson for me..."

As a member, I have not been asked my opinion either. I WAS proactive on my feelings. I made my feelings known to my ARRL director via e-mail twice. Neither time did I get a reply from him.

This should have been put to a referendum among the membership.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4DG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As I expected, lots of people would pan the ARRL over this.

I think the ARRL has some good ideas. I think that simply keeping the current license system in place but eliminating the 5 wpm exam completely would have been best. But the ARRL knew that it couldn't please everybody and decided to draft a compromise that would address everyone's concerns.

Even though I think the Morse Code testing is completely unnecessary, I'm not about to drop out of the ARRL over this.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Alot of the complaining here is the same tired old crap that I heard when the No-code Tec came out. Here come the CB'ers to 2 meters I heard. Well, in all honesty back before I got my licence I listened to 75,40 and 20 meters, and you know what I heard? General, Advanced and Extras jamming nets, playing music and sound effects burping and making racist and unwanted remarks. And all these guys took the test the old way. Obviously, the code and "harder" written exams didn't stop them.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4FAU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Actually I am a member of the ARRL, and Amateur Extra that got his license when the code was 20, and fully support the ARRL on this --

more poeple means more DX -- this give me an oppurtunity to talk and work more people -- thats why I am in this hobby... I have no idea why some of you are ...

too many think that these new guys are taking something away -- they are not -- they are adding ...

but to all of you that don't like it -- I strongly suggest that you cancel your ARRL memebership.. right now .. stop bitching about it .. do something .. QUIT ... and sell all of your gear cause life as you know it is over apparently --

by the way -- I'm looking for a new ICOM HF so when you panty waist whiners quit let me know and I will buy your equipment before one of the new guys just knocks you down and takes it...

aaaghhhhh!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W5AU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just talked to a Lifetime Member who is seriously
thinking about resigning from the ARRL. Boy, he is
some upset !!!

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG6GMT on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good for the ARRL ! Good plan and YES as a member I was asked in a pole about my feeling about this Proposel. Now like others here have said lets hope this gets done soon then we can work on the real problem BPL. Have fun contesting this weekend
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ok,

What kind of proposal could the ARRL have come up with given the likely scenario of the FCC, on its own, dropping the code as a requirement for HF access? Who would it please? Who should it please?

Anything over 5 WPM would have been unlikely as the FCC probably does not want a hassle over medical waivers. Keeping 5WPM for the Extra (if it actually happens) needs to be looked at as a victory. I am all for toughening up the written exams and I hope that the VECs actually look to do this, but again, I don't think it will happen.

There are a lot of hams here and in other forums acting out Don Quixote and on a seemingly impossible quest of time travel to the past when everything was OK in the realm of Amateur Radio. Many OFs (myself included) feel that some of the best times in Amateur Radio were in the 50s and 60s.

However there were those who thought it was the worst of times.. so much so that privileges were taken away from those who had earned them, sacrificed at the altar of good operating practice, code use, technical expertise, appliance operators, and home brewing.

The ARRL was hurt by incentive licensing back then and EVERY THING that has been done since then have been attempts to reverse the impact. Now the ARRL could be seriously hurt again, at a critical time when Amateur Radio is facing a lot of threats to its viability. History repeats, the lesson will be repeated until learned, and there is no time machine.

The FCC still might toss all of this out and do what it wants... and what it seems to want is less regulation, less records to keep and maybe to turn over licensing, privilege allocations, classes of license to a third party, possibly private sector. Also, there have been many proposals to the FCC, some very well crafted which might get some attention. As a great Yankee catcher once said... "It Ain't Over Til It's Over".

While I, along with many others have some reservations about what the ARRL will be proposing, It just might be the best possible outcome we could have hoped for. I renewed my membership last month and intend to do so as long as I am able.

73
George
K3UD
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W5EEX on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I don't understand the comments here by ARRL members who say they weren't given a say in this matter.
There were publicized online feedback "forums" at the ARRL Division level....and it seemed to me there was plenty of notice given about when the collection of feedback started and ended. I filed my comments....either these people were not paying attention, or they were waiting for the request-for personal-opinion letter to show up in the mailbox from ARRL. If you didn't post your feedback...don't complain.....it seems to me the ARRL did listen to the feedback and came up with a proposal to meet as many suggestions as was possible. Let's hope now that the FCC will listen to ARRL.
73
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0JTC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This was no easy decision for ARRL leadership. They knew whatever decision they came up with, a portion of the ARRL membership would be upset and angry. About a week before the meeting ARRL members were solicited for comment on this issue. The midwest division at one point had about 600 response to the request with 357 to continue testing, 208 to delete, and 57 to continue testing for extras only. It appears that the organization has tried to appease both interests.

1. They recognized that existing extra licensed amateurs did not want the code requirement dropped. The organization chose to maintain code as a requirement to gain licensure and be able to operate in the extra portion of the band.

2. The ARRL also recognized that the membership that did not hold extra licenses, were not supportive of continued morse testing. And as a result they chose to eliminate the code from testing for those operating privileges.

3. This appears reasonable and fair given the clearly defined lines that were drawn. The ARRL may have seen the handwriting on the wall and recongnized that the FCC would not accept continued morse testing as a requirement for operation in the HF bands. This may have been a compromise that they think that the FCC will swallow.

4. They also decided to address the band plan and open up more freguency for phone on some of the bands for those with general privileges.

5. They took on a dificult and unpopular task and should be commended for there efforts.

6. It will be interesting to see how soon the FCC responds to this and if they will accept these suggested changes completely or in part. The FCC may balk at continued morse testing for extra privileges as well. Time will tell.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KN4AQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This sounds like a reasonable compromise to me. There are a thousand different ways it could be set up, and I'd do it differently, but I can stand behind the ARRL on this. Good job, guys!

As an instructor, I know that getting into ham radio isn't easy for those with no technical background. And getting the license isn't the end of learning, it's the beginning.

I'm a little concerned that current Techs will get tossed into HF little formal education. As usual, though, it will be up to those of us who have been around a while to help them learn the ropes.

Over the years, we've seen several attempts at reviving the Novice. 220 MHz and 10 meters didn't do it. Too little, too late. This just might. The Tech has been an awkward entry-level license. I'll be happy to teach a "full-spectrum" course again.

I do think the spectrum refarming needs more work. I'm not sure I'd lump it in with the license changes. We're about to have a "digital" revolution, with HF digital signals carrying voice, text, image. In interesting note in the article on the AOR digital adapter in QST: digital voice is legal on the phone bands, but text - in the same digital signal - isn't. The rules are behind the curve, and need a lot more thought.

73,
Gary KN4AQ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N5QXP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Let's see if I've got this right. By throwing open the barn doors, Extras get 50 and Generals get an additional 150 khz?

And I suppose we should be grateful, huh?

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4JSR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
At least this finally ends the bitching about Incentive Licensing! Let's see if we can make this
angst grow and continue for some 30 odd years or so.
Cal K4JSR
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NE0P on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If I was a novice, I would be extremely pissed. Lets see, this proposal takes away the 23cm band from me, and makes me lower power on 10 meters. That is absolutely stupid. Most radios today do 100 watts out of the box on HF and 6, and 50 or so on VHF. So why not let Novices run the full 100 on 10 and 6? How is 10 meters any different than 15 meters?

Also, under this proposal, we give a bunch of CW privledges to people who refuse to learn CW?? The general license, if it carries no CW test, should give maybe 50 khz on each band for CW, tops.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG4PFO on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I like it........thats all I got to say


KG4PFO
(TECH)
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KF4MKJ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
All right more activity on 15 meters!! A huge band with nearly no avtivity except on contest weekends. We get more phone space on 40 meters!! Only downside I see here is giving Tech and Tech plus General priviledges without the general test. They should have been lumped in the novices. Otherwise this seems like an excellent idea to me. An entry license with HF phone priviledges spread around enough so that they can get a taste of more than repeater operation.

73 KF4MKJ
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> They didn't waste anytime, did they?

They wasted nearly a year

> Notice the date of this announcement was the same
> day they held their election for league President.

It was the annual ARRL Board of Directors meeting. The meeting is the only place where ARRL sets its policy on issues this touchy. They could have done the same thing last July, but for various reasons weren't yet ready to.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by OBSERVER11 on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TWO problems, one bad, the other unforgivable...

100w on HF is BAD, should be 10 or 20 watts - max.

GIVING General privledges to some of the no-code techs that hang out on this site is unforgivable.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ARF on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I like it.

I am surprised that the Techs (which I am) would not need to pass General Written (which I have done 3 times) in order to be upgraded. I am code-untalented, and while I do not seek erasure of the code subbands, I feel that morse code testing is not a proper license criteria.

Morse Code does not define the quality of an operator. It does not define the character of an individual's intellect, nor does it make one person any better than another. Morse Code is a communications method: some have the gift, others like me do not.

I have tried the code test 5 times in my life; I will not make a 6th attempt. I just don't get it. I'll also admit that I am not desparate to pass it either: it is not a surivial skill (unlike CPR or first aid-- do you grumpy hams have certs in those?) I'll be dead honest here: I don't care to invest the time to learn a mode I will not use. I devote X amount of time to my hobbies, including ham radio. Now, if Morse was in my Professional field, I would certainly chase it down. But this is a Hobby, and I have the luxury of saying no.

Do I think the band will fall apart, and the world will end? Nope. HF requires antenna systems, and some serious outlay of equipment funding. There are not too many multi-band antennas out there that are plug and go. If you don't tune the antenna properly, and you melt down the finals in the radio, that operator will be off in a hurry with broken parts.

As I sit at my desk and think about all the no-code stuff wired up on the shelf (yeah, the IRLP node, the 1.2 GHz data network, the 2m packet system, the APRS computer, the cross-band repeater, the HF radio listening to 40 meters, and that crystal radio set), I'd like to thank the ARRL for proposing the elimination of the code mandate. When this thing is passed, I'll be able to think about dipole antennas, antenna tuners, baluns, and QSL card design. Be able to talk more than on 6m that I listen to weekly for activity.

I hope some of the hams who have been on the bands will be around to talk about propogation, and suggest different methods. We will have intelligent discussions, and share the goodwill among amateurs. You can even ask me computer questions, and I'll answer as best as I can (I am a network administrator).

All of this is possible because WRC (and hopefully the FCC) recognize that Morse Code is a mode, and not a test for intellgence.

Christian
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K4SCH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Its a great idea!

Let the battle begin!!

73 de K4SCH
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"Talk about a slap in the face? Talk about a betrayal? The ARRL is looking to hand no-code Technicians a free upgrade to General. It is obvious that the ARRL sees the future of ham radio with the no-coders, and is kicking the rest of us where we sit. Members = Money. Money talks. B***S*** walks. My ARRL membership expires this August. I will give serious thought to this issue at renewal time. After this, all the ARRL means to me is QST and the "members only" TIS pages on their web site. I don't need the propagation report and the ARRL Letter e-mailed to me. That stuff is published right here on e-Ham. I can think of loads of things I can do with $39 a year. To say I'm "up in arms" is putting it mildly."

Amen!!! W8VOM
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KT0DD on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I Don't agree with the new proposal, but in reality, there's nothing I can do to change things. The majority will get their way, and since "Dumbing Down" is now the "American Way", we know who the majority is.

As I have read somewhere else on here, any society that can rationalize & justify perversion, is capable of anything. I enjoy the hobby and will continue to do so. However, I will be VERY selective with whom I communicate with, and where I operate. 73.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WE8Q on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I understand that the number of hams is on the decline, but giving licenses away is not the answer. What ever happened to taking pride in individual achievement by working hard to get your license? Is this a contest to see how many licensed hams we can get? Has someone set a quota for the number of licensed hams that we must have? If we had a shortage of doctors or pilots would we lower the standard so that we could get more? I don't think so.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W8DPC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"The majority will get their way"

Isn't that what is supposed to happen?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KB3JZG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Open Letter to the ARRL Directors and Presidents

The following letter I have sent myself to ALL the directors and all of the Presidents ( seems to be a lot of the ) in the ARRL, and to several web sites, and ham radio groups.

Hello,
To all of the directors and to the Presidents of the ARRL.
You have got to be kidding about the no code hf license. I havent been in ham radio long enough to understand everything you do, but this is one I think you are making a big mistake on. There is no reason I can think of to give someone an HF license without some kind of code requirement. Think about the reasons for learing it, and what would be even one reason not to. I thought the purpose of learning code, and your contests were to produce better radio amateurs, but in doing so you are creating a monster. What will happen when the only way to communicate will be with using code, and there is no amateur qualified to do so? Noise on the band, static, arual propagation, are you saying that code isnt needed anymore? Is the reason you are giving up the store is in order to create many new memebers for the ARRL? Is the ARRL in monerary trouble that this would cause you to do this?If this is the direction the ARRL is taking then I dont think I need to be associtated with them anymore.

My only hope now is that every amateur radio operator contacts everyone of you and lets you know there honest opinion on this subject.

Robert M. Jaworski
KB3JZG
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NV7E on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KBØRE is not a tech callsign. Also, it is not in the FCC database.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KB9YUR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Is that a light I see at the end of the tunnel ?!?

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KK9H on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This proposal basically looks fine, but I think the lower edge of the Extra SSB sub-bands should be 3.700 and 7.100 on 80 and 40 meters and make them 50 KHz wide. In addition, I would recommend that the maximum output power be 100 watts on all the Novice bands. It is silly to have a 50 watt limit on 10 and 6 meters since most rigs today run at 100 watts out on these bands. There is no need to have people remember to turn down their power levels on these bands.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WI0T on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm an ARRL member, Passed the 20 wpm code and have
held Novice-General-Advanced and now the Extra class ticket.

I support this move. Refarming of the Novice bands is
sorely needed. CW is not a barrier for good operators,
as demonstrated nightly on 75 meters. Simplification
of the license classes is also overdue.

Ham radio will survive. It will change, like everything
else does, but it will survive.

73 to all,

Rod
WI0T
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N4BRJ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I took Robert's (KB3JZG) suggestion and "My only hope now is that every amateur radio operator contacts everyone of you and lets you know there honest opinion on this subject."



Good Morning,
I just wanted to drop a quick note congratulating you on the new ARRL licensing proposal. This proposal has my full support.
I realize the ARRL will probably catch a lot of heat about this but remember, unhappy people are usually the loudest. There are a lot of us out there who think this is a great way to get more people involved in the hobby in addition to keeping others active.
New blood is definitely needed as I feel the hobby has been hi-jacked by the "Geritol Jet Set" and left to stagnate.
Again, good job and continued success.

Jonathan Baldwin
N4BRJ
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> They didn't waste anytime, did they?

"They wasted nearly a year"

> Notice the date of this announcement was the same
> day they held their election for league President.

"It was the annual ARRL Board of Directors meeting. The meeting is the only place where ARRL sets its policy on issues this touchy. They could have done the same thing last July, but for various reasons weren't yet ready to."

There Marty! Now I'm quoting you, quoting me.

Please voice your thoughts on this inflammatory issue so we can know where you stand.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NT9M on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Limited HF access for new novice class .... good.

Retaining CW testing for Extra class.... very good.

Upgrading existing techs to general without additional testing.... BAD...VERY VERY BAD !!!

de Tim
W9THD
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
BYE BYE ARRL. This puts them in the same league as Sarnoff, that is, bite the hands that feed you.

No more $39 from me every year.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD8WV on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
My membership to the League expires the end of February. I have not renewed pending the outcome of their meeting this past weekend. At this time I still am undecided whether to renew or not.

I think the League is heading in the right direction, but I have to agree with some of my Amateur brothers here, I think that the Technician class should be put in with the Novice class as entry level into HF. The Technician Plus has passed a 5 wpm code and therefore should be put in with the General class. Those who took the 5 wpm code and Technician theory also took the Novice theory at that time when we had 6 classes of licenses. So it would seem right to grandfather them into General. The Technician only took the Technician theory and Novice theory with no code at all.

By looking at the numbers, the Technician class still out numbers most of all other classes of license. I feel that is why the League included them in the General category instead of the Novice. The League probably thinks that this will boost their memberships because they were at the bat for the Technician class.

I will support the League on this idea, but I am not 100% on the layout. I am still undecided about renewing my membership to the League. At least the code remains for now. The Leagues proposal should end all debates about the code vs no-code. The Tech's get their way, HF without code and the rest of us get our way, keep the code. The only ones who really have the gripe now is the General class. All the work they had to do to get their General license, written exams and cw, either 13 wpm or 5 wpm. Now the Leage says just take the required written exams and you are a General.

Just my two cents worth.

Juddie WD8WV
http://www.qsl.net/wd8wv
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I can see it going one of two ways.

1)RF apocolypse-1.8-30MHZ CB! What is to prevent these novices from not buying Amplifiers, going out of their
part of the voice band.
Freebanders will flood the new no code, KnoW nothing test!

Hey folks, it is all about the money! Sell more rigs!

HOWEVER WE CAN HAVE AN ULTRA WIN-WIN SITUATION!

Remember the OLD DAYS. The rig makers made Novice only
rigs.

The rig makers can make a whole series of ultra cheap, ultra fool proof NOVICE RIGS.

The rigs will be hard CPU programmed! The rigs will not be able to transmit where the novices should not be

Upon upgrade, Only then the new ham can buy a regular
Ham rig. All seqments not locked out.

Perhaps this will give Ham Radio the new blood. NCT's can stop complaining.

Remember.......It is ALWAYS about the money!!!!!!

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W0QL on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hooray for the ARRL! I believe this will breathe some desparately needed new life into our hobby. It must have taken a lot for a conservative organization like the ARRL to make this move and my hat goes off to them. If we want to stop the lure of computers from taking away our young potential hams, we need to make the barriers to entry no higher than they are for getting into computers. This is a great first step. What could be next? Dell selling software defined ham radios? Boggles the mind, doesn't it. Congratulations to the ARRL.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ARRL hams used to bust my chops for being A QUARTER
CENTURY JUST SAY NO TO ARRL MEMBERSHIP HAM.

Thats right folks refused to join the ARRL for over a quarter century! I see I was proven RIGHT!!!

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N5AMZ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I passed the code requirement in '77 and was a novice WD6FVS, as soon as I received my "ticket" I went to the FCC office and took my tech exam and became N5AMZ. In 2001 I was "grandfathered" a General. I am in favor of keeping the code for HF. I am in favor of "grandfathering" the Advanced to Extra. I am NOT in favor of HF for techs who have not passed element 3 and 1. The ARRL has adopted "CQ" magazines support for NO Code and their members feel the same way most here feel for no code.

Yes I'm a Life Member now K0AMZ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0RFD on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with just about everything in the ARRL's proposal EXCEPT:

The Element 2 and Element 3 theory exams cover different aspects of Amateur Radio. They are not equivalent. Technicians should not be upgraded to General without passing Element 3. If the ARRL proposal is adopted by the FCC, a whole host of new upgraded ex-Techs won't even be required to know the frequency limits of the HF bands or how ionospheric propagation works. It's a bad idea.

Code schmode. I have no problem with code-free Generals. I do, however, have a problem with knowledge-free Generals.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2DTW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The no-code novice might not be such a terrible thing if it increases activity on now-unused parts of the bands. However, the NO-CODE GENERAL is QUITE ANOTHER STORY! A reasonable compromise could be to keep the 5 WPM code requirement (a very easy one) for the general license.
I feel that the next step could be elimination of CW subbands altogether.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3HJK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Absolutly correct. I am a current Technician, and DO NOT wish to be handed an upgrade. I want the satisfaction of passing the tests and earning my General. They should at least keep the theory test. Contrary to what some have said, it does contain many questions specific to HF operating, which do not appear on the the Element 2 test. Make the code Extra only, if necessary, but for God's sake do not upgrade Techs automatically!

Like many associations and organizations, the ARRL needs members. This will bring in a surge of new Hams, many of whom will join the ARRL. It strikes me as a self serving proposal for the ARRL.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Come one, come all! CBers, freebanders and anyone who's living and breathing - anyone who has the mental capacity to key a microphone and say DUH! Freebanders can now become legal hams, and bring with them a 40/s9 noise level once the next cycle is in full swing. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Breaker two-zero meters. Breaker two-zero meters. Dis be da worldwide Ratchetjaw Base station a breakin' and a stoodin' by! Ten-four dare, good buddy. You be wall to wall. Tree-top tall! Must be one o' dumb dare base stations a usin' one o' dumb dare leenyor amplificators. RF safety? Duh, wotz dat?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K2IY on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This license structure will maintain or increase the sales of amateur gear, the most important force which keeps HR going.

The new classes do not allow access to 20 mtrs or the WARC bands, preserving them for experienced ops.

New license allows for entry into hobby for people who use HR as a vehicle for other interests like emergency comm. i.e. community watch groups etc.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC2MFW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a Tech class and I'm not concerned about the no-code requirement.But I do believe that a test for General class should be required because more knowledge is required to operate on HF.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by by K2IY on January 20, 2004:
"The new classes do not allow access to 20 mtrs or the WARC bands, preserving them for experienced ops."

Its not the new proposed Novice license that most of us have a problem with. Its the automatic upgrade from codeless Technician to General that we're all up in arms over. These codeless Techs would automatically be upgraded to Generals, and yes, they would have access to 20m and the WARC bands. This proposal is opening the floodgates and allowing codeless access to all of HF except for the Extra sub bands.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3HJK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The more I think about this, the more outraged I am becoming. What on earth are they thinking. VHF knowledge is not HF knowledge. This is simply an awful, self serving stance that should be resisted vigorously by anybody in amateur radio with a shred of dignity.

Propagation? What's that?

I called CQ but didn't here the courtesy tone.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1AI on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> This proposal is opening the floodgates and allowing codeless access to all of HF except for the Extra sub bands.

No-code access to HF is fine with me. It's no-knoweldge access that worries me!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
With all the free give-aways that this proposal is offering, do you all notice that nothing is being proposed to raise the bar on the technical end? I am not at all for eliminating Element 1 testing for either General or Extra, but if they want to drop Element 1 testing for General, don't grandfather anyone, and at least toughen up the General exam and eliminate published question pools. People should be made to work for their tickets. This is becoming a free-for-all. No work, just welfare radio.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AK4P on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>WS4Y: Sad day!


Well said.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ECS on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
A very fair proposal. I am on the verge of taking my element 1 and element 3 for upgrade to General. Am I upset that I have spent all this time learning Code? Not at all! I will use my new knowledge to attain Extra. Incentive licensing does work...if we have people joining the hobby in the first place. I think this proposal accomplishes both in a fair and considered manner. Well done!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CWTITAN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW HAS NEVER BEEN IN A SUB-BAND. I DONT LIKE IT. CW SHOULD BE ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.
Does anyone have an idea which cereal box top the new license will on?? ARRL must have an idea. I thought at one time the ARRL was on our side (hamops) but, now I just have a problem with it. I think they will be disolved along the way, and are too stupid to see it. I read and reread the proposal and it looks like the DUMBDOWN of ham radio is NOW HERE. I am running down to Walmart this morning to see if I can get the first box of cereal with the new license on it.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA2UUP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Nobody from the ARRL asked for the members' opinion. I think that is wrong.

However, this is just a proposal. If it gets to the FCC, I am sure they will have to issue a NPRM and we can submit comments, then. Let's not be rash. However, my e-mail to ARRL to opose this will be sent tonight.

Bert @ KA2UUP
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC0ECS on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Knowledge comes in many forms. By the way, "HERE" as you used in your comments is spelled: H-E-A-R.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3HJK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I stand corrected - hear.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD4HXG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Sold out by the ARRL again. Is there another alternative to Newington that is not trying to
sell out the service?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by D0RK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What a Joke! Ceeeuuuummmoan!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by by CWTITAN on January 20, 2004:
"Does anyone have an idea which cereal box top the new license will on??"

So all ashore that's going ashore! Dumb de dumb de dumb de dumb dumb dumb. Get Captain Crunch at your grocery store. Ah Wooooo!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WA5KRP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
NOPE. Go back to the drawing board.
Grant general class privileges to current techs? What the hell is THAT?
WA5KRP


 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
DUH! Witch end of da micky-fone does I tawk inta? Da part wid da holes? Or da udder side?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD4HXG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
For those interested the following can be used to cancel ARRL Membership and subscription.
QST Delivery Circulation Desk
860-594-0338 or e-Mail circulation@arrl.org
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA8VBX on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Everyone is worried about allowing the no-code tech's entry to HF here in the US, but wait what about the other countries that have already eliminated code requirements and given access to hf to all, how many hams are there in the US compared to the rest of the world?
No matter what you think it is going to happen sooner or later, like it or not. Look at some of the other suggestions that have been made, some are just as bad.
Some of the proposed changes are good, some are not,but I am glad to see that they did decided to required a code requirement for Extra but I would like to have seen it raised to 10wpm.
I started as a old Novice (one year up or out), General, Advance, and then Extra.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K1RV on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I noticed the same thing when checking out this KB0RE guy.

Perhaps his callsign (if he ever passed an exam!)is really TR0LL. I enjoy the right of Free Speech, but give absolutely no credence to anonymous postings.

I've been licensed since 1962 and have always belonged to the ARRL. As someone who had enjoyed Full operating priviledges as a General in 1963,I lost a lot when "Incentive Licensing" began.

I haven't always agreed with everything coming out of Newington, but I have already voiced my support on this issue. They have put together a very reasonable proposal.

This "Future of Amateur Radio" issue seems to bring out a lot of people full of negativity and nastiness. Are there really people in their lives who like to listen to them talk about anything?

At least I can "turn the dial" if I hear them on the air!

73, Pi - K1RV

k1rv@gis.net

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC8HUU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have been reading all of the comments. What are people afraid of?

Change!

CW is a very small part of all of the operating modes and skills necessary. Do we require an examination on every operating mode? Should we make someone demonstrate that they can solder a connector onto a piece of coax? We can go overboard. The testing that is done is a barrier to those that would not want to expend effort getting on the air legally. For the rest of us, once you get your ticket it requires a lot of learning, experimenting, and plain old luck to get contacts. This is a hobby, a pastime, an activity done for fun and possible self education. If you make the barrier too high then no one will enter and it will die. I fully support and welcome the ARRL’s recommendation. Good luck to all of the new ham and I also welcome the technicians to the HF bands. And yes I am one of the so called light extra’s…..


Eddie

KC8HUU
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N6TGK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm certainly not surprised by some of the comments. It's interesting to note that the "negative" comments being made are the same ones being made back in 2000 when the FCC lowered the requirement to just 5 wpm for all licenses. I see that Ham Radio is still very much alive, to the dismay of the doomsayers I'm sure. I disagree with this proposal entirely. I made my comments to the ARRL. However, a decision was made and I accept that. I'm not going to whine and complain because I didn't get my way.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N1VLQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KA2UUP is right, gang, let's don't act too rashly. This is only a proposal, and while many times these proposals go through as written, there have been times when proposals have been amended. So if we act like the well-educated, intelligent, and rational communicators that we are SUPPOSED to be, and make our concerns known, to the appropriate people, at the appropriate time, in an appropriate manner, these issues could be changed. Or, we could all go off, half-cocked, screaming and yelling that the sky is falling, ranting about how the ARRL has sold us out, etc, etc, ad nauseum, and see what that gets us. More hurt feelings, and nothing actually accomplished. Good stuff. Makes me proud to be associated with that "class" of amateur, no matter how many words-per-minute that he or she can copy. "Class" is indeed an appropriate term to use, I'm afraid.
For the record, I see the ARRL's proposal as a neccesary evil, given how the rest of the world is addressing the HF spectrum these days. I do think it is a good thing to retain the CW requirement for Extra, and I think that I like the "New Novice", as described. And yes, like the majority here, I believe that the ARRL made a mistake with grouping current Techs/Tech+ into General, without passing the theory. And that is what I'm going to say in my comments to the ARRL, and the FCC. And if more of us do so, perhaps that one issue can be corrected.
Also for the record, I'm a 13 WPM Extra (what used to be called "Extra Lite"...I wonder what I'll be in the future? "Extra Medium"?) who doesn't actually know CW as well as he should, but who is looking forward to the time when I can dig in and really start using it, and using it better. Because I think it's great, and as we all know, it WILL get through, when nothing else can. The more we remind people about that, and demonstrate that, then we'll be on our way to saving the code. Not by hiding behind regulations.
Take care folks, and have some fun. Try not to lose your voices, while tilting at those windmills....
73
Bruce, N1VLQ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NE0P on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Now do you think that this proposal, if it passes, is going to satisfy the "I don't like CW crowd?" Maybe for a week or so. Then we will hear about how unfair it is that they are excluded from some frequencies because they don't want to learn code, BLAH BLAH BLAH, and it will be back to the drawing board to eliminate CW all together.

A more reasonable approach would be to grandfather techs to the new novice, since it carries HF phone privledges, and keep the current general and extra requirements the same. That way, people who don't want to learn CW can still get on HF, but 20, 160, 60, and the WARC bands are reserved for those who wish to expend a little effort. Also, the novice license would have to include everything above 50mhz so technicians wouldn't be losing frequencies.

And why no phone band expansion on 20 meters? 14.100 to 14.150 is unused in the US, except for the beacons on 100 and the MT63 calling frequency on 109. At least drop the extra band down to 14.125.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4DXL on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As a broadcater you should know the same thing happened in the commercial sector. When I started you were required to have at least a 3rd class FCC Radiotelephone license. The test was given by the FCC field offices. If it was a big high power directional you had to have a 1st class license to read the meters, etc. Now there is no license requirement at all.

One arguement for eliminating the code is why should I have to learn something I have no intention of using? Other countries and serivces have dropped the requirement so what's the point of retaining code. Does it really keep out poor operators? Listen and make up your own mind about that one.

I've passed my General theory and for the last year I have been struggling with the code. I WILL pass it since I want to upgrade to Extra eventually. However I am in favor of the change.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K7VO on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I agree this is an excellent proposal. Yes, I came up through the old system. Yes, I started with the old Novice license. Yes, I had to pass a 13 WPM code test to get HF priveleges. SO???

Time and technology move on. CW is an excellent hobbyist and historical mode. I still use it with small, portable QRP gear, mainly on 15 and 40 meters. It can be fun, and if those of us who enjoy CW share that enjoyment with others the mode will never die even if it isn't on any test.

Dumbing down? Not hardly. You have an irrelevant CW test going away, but the written test remains the same.

Most ARRL members favor keeping a code requirement, period? That's the opposite of what I'm hearing.

Boycott the ARRL? Who will lobby against BPL and other band threats? You want to cut your nose to spite your face? Fine with me. Most hams with common sense and intelligence will remain in the ARRL because they are still the only game in town when it comes to defending our spectrum.

I'll be writing my Division Director in support of the ARRL proposal and will file appropriate comments with the FCC when the NPRM comes along.

Some of you are living in the past. CW as an exam requirement is little more than a hazing ritual.

Flames to /dev/null

73,
Cait
K7VO
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3TSN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think its an excellent proposal, think of all the young amateurs that will get back into the hobby. Including kids. I strongly believe that the hobby will be threatend by two things elmers and old timers
becoming silent keys and lack of interest in Amateur radio by youngsters. Look at what the hobby is competing with: playstation, X box, nintendo, sega, the internet, echolink, FRS walkie talkies, paint ball, school sports, TV, Chat rooms, the list goes on and on for the elmers, when you were 12 to 20 yrs old they had radio and tv checkers and chess and thats about it. Come on lets not be selfish regarding the bands...... use them or we will all lose them.
N3TSN
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AG4DG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What do you think of my idea?

Eliminate the 5 wpm exam but keep the rest of the exams, license structure, and privileges in place. All No-Code Techs automatically gain Tech Plus privileges. The General and Amateur Extra licenses require ONLY the written exams.

It's simple. All written exam requirements remain in place. And in spite of the red herrings thrown around, the trend has been towards making the written exams harder, as RF safety questions have been added to the question pools in the last few years.

I'm surprised the ARRL didn't propose this, as it would be simpler. I'm not sure if the FCC will like the ARRL's proposal due to the added complications. I think my idea would do more to simplify the FCC's work.

I don't think the 5 wpm exam requirement should be retained for the Amateur Extra license. I think it's unnecessary. (According to the logic of some Morse Code testing defenders, I should be pushing for a SKYWARN requirement because SKYWARN led me into ham radio.) However, I will understand if the ARRL and FCC decide to retain the 5 wpm exam requirement for the Amateur Extra license as a compromise.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Can anybody tell me where to get a ROGER BEEP,Deluxe triple echo/distortion/laughbox/ultra power mic for a TS-850SAT?

I just want to be on the same level with the new novices!

There is a Door's song that is playing in my mind right
now.

1)It is not light my fire!
2)Not L.A. woman.
3)Breaker, breaker, good buddy, on through to the other side. Not a bad second choice!

HINT: The Movie......APOCOLYPSE NOW sound track, 1 twelve minute song!

HINT: One line of the song is.... This is the.....E...
HINT:Col. KURTZ gets terminated with extreme prejudice,
during the song.

Yes lets be cool about it. Might as well have some jokes. The FCC will hopefully send this one back for a revision!

Have a crummy day

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K9PO on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It has been said that a happy ham is a bitching ham.

The ARRL has made many a ham 'happy' today.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
UNBELIEVEABLE.

If you feel as strongly as I do about this, VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLARS. Call Danny at the ARRL membership desk and RESIGN YOUR ARRL MEMBERSHIP.

I DID!

Here is the number:

1-860-594-0200
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4FAU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
You know that the ARRL and NCI did nothing prior to testing the water with the FCC....

anyway ...

good job ARRL in having the vision to look forward ...
 
RE: ARRL to dumb down amateur radio!  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I propose the formulation of a new organization, with its principal objective to oppose the "dumbing down" or the "CB-ification" of ham radio.

Its name is the American Ham Association.

Membership is ONLY open to NON-ARRL members.




 
RE: ARRL Proposal  
by DUPANOUS on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Congratulations to the ARRL for taking such a progressive stance!

Now, here's what'll happen...

The FCC will adopt the ARRL recommendation making only one modification.

They will drop the code testing requirement for ALL classes of amateur license.

Mark my word.

DJ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey W9WHE, perhaps I should send the NEWINGTON CON old boys club some real NYC Harlem CRACK to smoke!

Then, maybe they could come up with a slicker scam to sell!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AD5X on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think the ARRL came up with a good compromise. There isn't a solution that will satisfy everyone, and any compromise will make many people unhappy. My hat is off to the ARRL for taking this step.

And BTW - I was asked for my input by the ARRL.

Phil - AD5X
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WR8D on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just don't agree with any type of no-code hf privilege. As for being a member of arrl i dropped out along with many others a few years ago.

I had actually thought they would come around and make a stand but its clear now that the "all mighty buck" is the driving force here. Sell more radios at what ever the cost to the bands...get more endorsements etc. Quantity...not quality thats what they're after.

John WR8D
"thats a big 10-4"
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New License to Keep up biz  
by NE1Z on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Simple: Drop the stupid !@#$%^%$#@! code instead of agonizing over it.

One class license for everything, DC-daylight with a single test.

Simple to implement, simple to track & puts an end to "class" seperation & endless "my class is bigger than your class"!

That would be too simple!
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of Amat  
by KD2KU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Look at the numbers-

Currently

Tech........280,115
Tech Plus....69,472
Novice.......39,884
General.....145,851
Advanced.....84,921
Extra.......106,842
Club..........8,797

Total US....735,882

I think there might be 84,000+ Advanced holders that love this proposal. (Including me) :-)

And 39,000+ Novices, 249,000+ Tech, Tech plus who will too.

That is reality.

As far as "lids" are concerned- they've been with us since Day One. The class of licenses they hold mean nothing.

The CB cracks also make me chuckle- many hams today got their start with CB.

For those who are upset and want to resign from the ARRL- who will fight the BPL issue... you? That's a laugh.

Hey folks... it's a hobby where there is ample room for your own niche. It is what you make it.

Be happy.




 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K5UJ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Overall I think this is a good move. It isn't exactly what I would like but we all can't have things just the way we want them can we? For example I'd like to see the Extra requirements continue to include the 20 wpm cw test. Ignoring that, we desperately need an entry license with HF privleges. For too long new hams have been relegated to VHF where the rigs for nonFM modes are few, expensive, and complex, and homebrewing and kit building are difficult compared to the options for HF both new and used. Many new hams stick with FM and loose interest and let their licenses lapse because there is a disconnect between them and veteran hams who are more likely to be primarily HF operators.

Oh sure, the usual outcry. It's been there every single time there has been a renovation of the license classes in the U.S. going back to WWII and B4. ARRL has been raked over the coals regardless of their position. Back when they were devoutly anti-nocode (remember the communicator license?) they were lambasted for that. Now that they are proposing a no-code license for HF they are getting it from another faction. How about Incentive Licensing? There are still a few OTs who get a dig into the ARRL for that even now.

When I was taking my examinations, the old timers of the day (many now SKs) smugly told me how easy I had it, not having to draw schematic diagrams and answer essay questions for my tests. 30+ years later nothing has changed. The guys who were tested along with me are smugly talking to the new hams about how they had to take a 20 wpm cw test and novice, general, advanced and extra elements to make it to the top. Here's two things that have not changed and probably never will: Negativity and cheap superiority.

Rob Atkinson
K5UJ
ARRL Life
Extra since 1975
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K2GW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>They didn't waste anytime, did they? Notice the date of this announcement was the same day they held their election for league President.

Considering that the entire ARRL board directors only meet in person twice a year, it makes sense that a whole lot of things get voted on at those dates each year!

Actually, the ARRL proposal is really just building on the restructuring proposal they made in 1998 but that the FCC couldn't entirely implement in 2000 because of the now obsolete ITU rule.

73

Gary, K2GW


 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W2BSA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I see!!! All of you folks want to leave the League because of ONE issue. One hit wonders I see. The League is YOUR lobbying group folks!!! They are the one's who spend their time on Capitol Hill and at FCC headquarters keeping everyone else's hands off of our piece of the RF spectrum. You want to lose Amateur Radio altogether??!!! Then, quit the ARRL in droves. Go ahead and let it fold. There won't be a code-no-code arguement anymore because there won't be any amateur radio any more. Why, you ask???!!!! Because the League wasn't there to protect our spectrum and the commercial interests got everything we have. YES, FOLKS!!! EVERY COMMERCIAL USER LOOKS AT OUR BANDS AND COVETS THEM FOR THEIR USE WITH US GONE!!!

Think about it,

73,

Bill, W2BSA
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
K5UJ wrote "Now that they are proposing a no-code license for HF they are getting it from another faction."

Its not the proposed codeless Novice license that has everybody up in arms over. Its dropping Element 1 testing for General and grandfathering codeless Techs up to General with no test that has us all seething. Free rides and entitlements that one doesn't have to work for abound in the Welfare States of America.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC2MFW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Probably a cool down period is called for on the matter.It's a proposal and is likely to see future changes.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
We need to start a new organization called PCI, Pro-code International to lobby for restoration of code proficiency testing worldwide.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC9AWS on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good for the ARRL.

For all some of those constant belly-achers who beleive that everyone else has to do it the way they had to, well times are changing! What do you want? To sit there when you're 90 and listen for someone else to call CQ, and they all died before you. Being able to read code doesn't make you a better amateur, it's just something you can do. You can't do alot of things that others can do, or can you do everything.
As for the CB stuff, how many hams got their start in CB? Welcome them into amateur radio, just like you were, if they convert over. Since you went into amateur radio, do you still do the things that you did in CB?

Now for the purity of some amateur radio operators, the ones with 3.5 KW amplifiers, the ones that only constantly talk about their prostrate problems, and the know-it-alls with no practical experiences. Could it be that you are some of the reasons for the decline in amateur radio? I'm sure that you blame it all on someone else. Shorty you will be able to blame it on someone that hasn't passed the code!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W4TLG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Other than the automatic Tech. upgrade (I think they should just be given the new Novice HF priviliges), this is a decent proposal.

I predict an added benefit to all the new HF activity by Novices and Tech/Generals: Local club activities and VHF/UHF repeater operation will also be revitalized. What's one of the most interesting things to talk about (or listen to) on local repeaters? HF operating! How conditions were last night, what DX was on, what the weekend contest was like, what antennas you're experimenting with, etc....HF is the traditional common denominator that makes local ragchewing fun for many hams (remember what 2m FM was like in the "good old days" in the 70's and 80's before hams were split into code/no-code groups?). This proposal would give useful HF priviliges to ALL U.S. hams.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W7CXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have been licensed for 47 years. I started with a Novice license in 1956 which was only good for 1 year and non renewable. I then got a General, and later an Advanced. I upgraded in 1981 to an Extra Class, taking the test in the FCC office, and also passing a 20 wpm code test. Call me a sour puss if you want, but I object to all these "Freebie" upgrades. I worked hard through the years for my license. I feel all those upgrades are not that. The rest of us are being "Downgraded".
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NE0P on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Suppose you have worked for the same company for 20 years. You earned a college degree. Went to some continuing education courses. Learned the ropes of the firm, and now make a decent salary. Just yesterday your firm brings in a new employee. He is a high school graduate, with no college experience. No work experience in your area either. He starts out at the same salary you are now making.

How would you feel? Cheated? Like this is somehow unfair? Why? His salary in no way affects your salary? It doesn't affect any of your accomplishments.

But be honest-how would you feel? Would you be happy for him? Welcome him with open arms?

Now you know how many of us older timers (I am 37, licensed since 1980) feel, as we see people who have taken many less exams, and expended much less effort learning material than we did, being given the same amount of spectrum as we have.

Kind of puts it in perspective a little
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down"  
by KE4SKY on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This measure may indeed insure the survival of amateur radio. But they should also apply the former 200 watt novice power limitation across the board to all phone bands except for mobile and DX contacts. Ducking as I dodge the flames.................!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by G0GDU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Whilst it would appear that the majority of US amateurs who are prepared to publish their thoughts about changes in Amateur Radio and knocking the ARRL, a large part of the rest of world seem to be taking advantage of the relaxed entry requirements and getting on with enjoying the hobby. Is it not time you started to behave like mature adults instead of squabbling children.

What is wrong with the requirements changing. How many of those who think it is wrong to make change learnt to drive before it was necessary to have a driving licence - did that make them better or worse drivers than those who now have to take a driving test?

Is it really the ARRL who are relaxing the entry requirements or is it that they are just the agents of a higher authority who set the rules and regulations?
I presume that those who voice their opinions on EHAM are not representative of all US Hams. Those who say they will now give up the hobby seem to be shooting themselves in the foot, who else will lose out if they give up. Those who threaten to leave the ARRL surely only weaken the representation of all US Hams.

I read the proposals with interest because they seem to mirror what has been in place in the UK since the beginning of 2003. What we have now are three class of licence, i.e Foundation, Intermediate and Full. These provide the following privileges:

Foundation - power imited to 10W on all frequencies up to 440MHz except 10m band; excludes FSTV
Intermediate - power limited to 50W, access to all frequencies
Full - power limited to 400 W, access to all frequencies

Whilst the UK has gone to a three class system from what was effectively a five class system our new scheme seems to mirror the scheme now being introduced in the US with the exception of a Morse test for the highest class.

Since all non-code licence holders in the UK now have access to the HF bands the world does not seen to have come to a halt as many seem to be predicting and activity on some bands seems to have increased.
Whilst I am one of those UK licence holders who persevered to pass the Morse test I do no begrudge anyone who obtained additional privileges by being around at the right time. I’ll still work anyone who makes the effort to get on air and will still continue to train Foundation and Intermediate licence holders.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W2DUG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> W7CXA wrote:
> I worked hard through the years for my license. I
> feel all those upgrades are not that. The rest of
> us are being "Downgraded"."

And you gained all the benefits your hard work afforded you: you learned, you improved your skills, you made lots of interesting contacts, you elmered a few folks, maybe, and you enjoyed yourself for a long time.

Those who receive the proposed "instant upgrades" (if implemented) will not have those same benefits unless they, too, put in the same hard work you did.

It does NOT devalue YOUR license and YOUR experience.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC0ODY on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
NE0P, I can understand what you are saying, but I hope that no one takes out their frustration on the new people entering AR. New people have no control over the tests they take to enter this hobby. Certainly, everyone who is upset about this ARRL proposal should make their feelings known where it counts-- to those who are the architects of this proposal.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W6DLP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Great job ARRL!

It's about time, just when I was ready to give up on radio. While many people may cancel their ARRL membership, I plan on renewing mine, thanks again guys! Can't wait for my warm reception on those HF bands, be nice boys! hehe
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The ARRL proposal is a step in the right direction. It needs tweaking, but it isn't hopelessly flawed.

The principal deficiency in the League's proposal is the retention of telegraphy testing for the Extra class of license. I understand that there are hams out there with an "I worked hard to pass this requirement; now, everyone else should too," attitude about the Morse code. I also understand that telegraphy is an obsolescent (at best) form of communication and that the requirement for telegraphy proficiency has been removed from the International Radio Regulations. Keeping telegraphy as a requirement under these circumstances changes it from a legitimate skill to a hazing ritual.

The Commission is legally bound to regulate our hobby in the interest of the general public--not us as hobbyists. It doesn't matter if a majority of current Extras want the telegraphy requirement left in place. What matters is whether or not the FCC views Morse code as an unnecessary barrier to new persons joining the hobby or upgrading.

Still, if the ARRL proposal were adopted in toto, I believe that ham radio would be better off than it is today.

One last comment about testing ... Back in the '60s, I got a First Class Radiotelephone commercial license. The test was brutal. When I upgraded from Tech to Extra, I found that the General and Extra exams were trivially easy. Of course, they shouldn't be to hard for a EE who's been working over 30 years. However, I could not have passed the 21st-century versions of Elements 3 or 4 when I passed my commercial exam. I didn't know enough theory back then. We OFs who think the exams are too easy should look at them again as we would have when we were newbies.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4FFG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Personally, I don't give a s**t either way about taking the General test. I've already passed it once, and I can pass it again. Element 1, however, was a different story. Oh well. Obviously, there now might be a chance that I won't have to take the Element 1 test. Good or bad, we'll all wait and see if the FCC accepts ARRL's proposal.

Now, if the FCC DOES accept the ARRL proposal, and all current Techs are upgraded, why does that automatically make us bad HF operators? That instant assumption really pisses me off. None of you know me, or know what kind of operator I am. So all of you who are forming instant opinions can kiss my ass! You want me to pass a tougher theory test? Fine. Have at it.

And for the ones who say that the ARRL didn't ask for their input - bulls**t! There were plenty of opportunities to provide feedback. I received several emails and other correspondence from ARRL headquarters, and the ARRL Great Lakes Section Manager. I always responded in some manner. If you are an ARRL member, and didn’t respond, tough. It’s like voting: if you don’t vote, you can’t bitch.

I congratulate the ARRL leadership for having the balls to stand up to the establishment and have the courage to promote their proposal. I am now, and will continue to be, an ARRL member.

Don Imhoff, W4FFG
Paducah, KY
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, that more of us had an attitude such as G0GDU's!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, that more of us had an attitude such as G0GDU's!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To G0GDU:

There is a major difference between licensing in the UK and what is being proposed here in the USA. Even though you dropped your code testing for HF, you Brits still have to work for your licenses. Your exams are a lot more comprehensive than ours and you don't give your applicants the questions and answers to memorize ahead of time. Brits actually have to know their stuff to pass your tests. That's not so here in the States. The written tests here in the States are a joke. One can take enough practice tests on QRZ to ace any exam without knowing anything about radio and electronics. Any proposal to eliminate Morse testing needs to have a provision to make the theory exams more comprehensive and more serious, like you have in England.

Here's an analogy for you. How would you feel if all Foundation licensees were automatically upgraded to Intermediate with no test?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3TTN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Quote: "Suppose you have worked for the same company for 20 years. You earned a college degree. Went to some continuing education courses. Learned the ropes of the firm, and now make a decent salary. Just yesterday your firm brings in a new employee. He is a high school graduate, with no college experience. No work experience in your area either. He starts out at the same salary you are now making.

How would you feel? Cheated? Like this is somehow unfair? Why? His salary in no way affects your salary? It doesn't affect any of your accomplishments.

But be honest-how would you feel? Would you be happy for him? Welcome him with open arms?

Now you know how many of us older timers (I am 37, licensed since 1980) feel, as we see people who have taken many less exams, and expended much less effort learning material than we did, being given the same amount of spectrum as we have.

Kind of puts it in perspective a little "


Here's a slightly different perspective: Amateur radio is a hobby, you don't need a college degree to enter the ranks, and you don't draw a salary for operating your equipment. Now, another perspective: The ARRL plan is only a PROPOSAL, and the FCC is under no obligation to include any of it in a future restructuring or realignment of the amateur service. If I had to place bets, my guess would be that the FCC will pay little if any attention to the current proposals or petitions that have been put forth. That being said, I am planning to take the element 3 test very shortly, and will follow up with the element 1 test within a month or two after that. If the code testing should be dropped in the meantime, I will simply upgrade within the framework of the new regulations. Oh, and with regard to welcoming the new employee with open arms, I would simply be glad that my own job had not been sent to Kuala Lumpur. 73 to all.


N3TTN
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To G0GDU:

There is a major difference between licensing in the UK and what is being proposed here in the USA. Even though you dropped your code testing for HF, you Brits still have to work for your licenses. Your exams are a lot more comprehensive than ours and you don't give your applicants the questions and answers to memorize ahead of time. Brits actually have to know their stuff to pass your tests. That's not so here in the States. One can take enough practice tests on QRZ to ace any exam without knowing anything about radio and electronics. Any proposal to eliminate Morse testing needs to have a provision to make the theory exams more comprehensive and more serious, like you have in England.

Here's an analogy for you. How would you feel if all Foundation licensees were automatically upgraded to Intermediate with no test?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W2BSA writes:

"The League is YOUR lobbying group folks!!!

Nope. Not anymore. I called Danny at the ARRL today and CANCELLED my membership. The ARRL no longer speaks for me.



"You want to lose Amateur Radio altogether??"
YES, FOLKS!!! EVERY COMMERCIAL USER LOOKS AT OUR BANDS AND COVETS THEM FOR THEIR USE WITH US GONE!!!

Utter nonsence. UHF/VHF mabe, but not HF. There are very few (if any) commercial enterprises lining up for a piece of the HF spectrum. Its way too fickle to be commercially reliable for most uses.



 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Let us get the facts straight.

The ARRL ABANDONED US when it proposed "dumbing down" and "CB-izing" our hobby. I am neither the first, nor the last, to cancel his ARRL membership. And if (when) people desert the ARRL "in droves" so be it.

I'm quite sure the ARRL did a $$ calculation on the number of resignations vs. the number of new members. The ARRL has voted with its wallet. AND SO HAVE I.

I QUIT THE ARRL.


 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE, do you think the ARRL cares whether they lose pro-code hams. For every one of us who leaves, there will be 10 no-coders to take our place. That's why the ARRL sold us down the river. It's all about membership and money. I'm sure Hiram Percy is spinning in his grave. This is not what Mr. Percy formed 90 years ago.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KF4AU wrote:

>>but what really gets me -- why is it that no one complained that the rest of the world, 31 countries to date, has dropped their code requirement and no one complains<<

The same pissing and moaning pro-code crowd has also been bragging about all the brand new QSL cards they're getting from all the new hams on HF now from around the world. Hypocrites all of them. Let them go away, they won't be missed that's for sure.

73
Dave
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WD0M on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4FFG's comments are interesting - with all the ** words included in his response, I see he will fit right into the OF's group on 80 meter phone. I'm not quite sure why comments pro or con need to resort to words you wouldn't say to your mother. Then again, I guess as a charter member of the OF club, that's another change in society that I just don't understand.

I've expressed my opinion in the past, and did so again today in a missive sent both to the ARRL and to the FCC:
******
"Ladies and Gentlemen,

"I am deeply disappointed in the ARRL's latest license restructuring request to the FCC. I am very tired of seeing MY hobby "dumbed down". Memorizing the questions instead of actually learning anything was first, followed by dropping CW requirements for access to HF bands. OK - the FCC chose to do that based on the recent WRC, and ARRL is not responsible - directly. But the ARRL has supported that position, to the dismay of "old poops" like me. First licensed in 1961, I actually had to read books and learn the answers through application - now it's rote memory and you're guaranteed of passing. Only 5 wpm for CW as an EXTRA class??? Come on guys - what the heck is "extra" about 5 wpm?? My dog can almost do that with her tail!

"To those who now are being "given" an upgrade, instead of earning it, your position will be popular. To those of us who actually had to learn and demonstrate our abilities, you've become detached. I'm disenchanted with the leadership of the ARRL - and that of the FCC. You are out of touch with the hams who have brought the ARRL thus far, and you've sold out - compromised your standards - to the point that the pride I once held in being an extra class licensee has almost brought me to the point of abandoning the hobby.

"I still have the FCC Engineer in Charge certification of my accomplishment for earning extra class hanging on the wall from 21 years ago. My license now means little compared to what it once did. I am considering cancelling my membership and sending my license back to the FCC."
******
Despite my opinion, best wishes to the newbies who may soon enter the world of HF SSB ops. Please read and adhere to the amateur's code before jumping in. Here's your chance to change things for the better.

73,
Joe
WD0M
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0RGR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, I can see from a lot of the outraged responses that the fear that someone will get a freebie overrides all common sense. The concept of compromise for the common good is apparently dead in some quarters.

Perhaps, FISTS will reform itself into a new organization - "Folks Imploring New General Exam Requirements" or 'FINGER' for short. They will 'FINGER' ARRL and the rest of the ham community for the next 20 years!

It is time for peace to come to the Balkans. Everybody has something they would change in the proposal.

Why no Element 3 test? Because Element 2 and 3 are of very similar complexity. After the merger, these two elements will be combined into one. I suspect this is suggested in order to keep the process simple for FCC. Remember, we can't track the 'Tech +' anymore because it would cost FCC too much to reprogram their computers.

Why 50 Watts on 10 and 6? If you do a little study, you'll see that 100 W on those two bands can easily exceed the RF Exposure limits. By limiting them to 50 W or less, they won't have to include the RF exposure information on the Novice test. Don't blame ARRL, blame FCC for this one. Don't like it? Go get the General and you can fry your neighbors with 1500 W.

Why 100 W for Novices on HF? Well, that's less than the current Novice limit on HF. The argument many years ago for raising it so high was that a lot of rigs in those days could not easily be operated at reduced power (back when we used input instead of output measurements). I suspect they looked at what's out there today and saw that most rigs today run 100 W. I'd prefer to see 50, too, but I can live with what's proposed.

I support the ARRL. Those of you who say you were not asked are being disingenuous. I was polled and also sent personal letters to my Director.

According to the CQ Magazine's poll, the Extras were the one group most strongly in favor of eliminating the code requirement for General. A big majority in all the polls I saw, however, asked that the code test be retained for Extra. With the enhanced Extra priveleges in the proposal as a continuing incentive to upgrade, I think we will ensure that the code lives on this way. Hopefully, FCC won't just drop Element 1 entirely, which is what most of us expect them to do.

This proposal is a return to sanity - a structure very much like we had in the 50's and 60's, with powerful new features. It will be good to have 'Novices' around again, with an upgrade path. We will all have an opportunity to contribute to the new exams - and new set of curricula, so we should be able to make them more technically oriented and more relevant to the real world.

Hopefully, FCC will act on this swiftly, as there will be a long leadtime in creating new test materials for the Novice and the new General. Meanwhile, Technicians who are planning to upgrade will feel like they are in "limbo" until FCC moves.
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WD0M:

Don't just "consider" canceling your ARRL membership. Do it. I cancelled today. And I encourage all that feel strongly to do the same. SEND A MESSAGE.

.._. .._
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WA1RKA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After reading this proposal,and having been licensed since 1964 you can guess that I am pro-code. However, lets do a reality check,the FCC will do what they want in regards to eliminating or retaining the code. If the requirment is dropped then,it will have to be accepted by all the current license holders.At least this proposal does keep a CW requirement to upgrade to Extra, and like others I feel an increased code speed requirement should have been included.

I notice that one person commented that 84,921 Advanced holders who probably would be happy about the auto upgrade to Extra, you can make that 84,920 as I have always belived you get what you earn. I have had my Advanced for 30 plus years,and if the Extra had given me more than just a little more space on the bands I would have upgraded long ago. My Incentive to upgrade in 1972 was a desire to run SSTV and at the time it was limited to the Advanced and Extra portions of the band.

73
John
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by VE2DC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Cancelling ARRL membership is STUPID!!!

Who else can effectively represent YOUR amateur radio interests. Hell, I'm a member of ARRL and I'm not even American! There was no way they could please everyone... this seems like a fair proposal.

Get a grip on reality...

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3HJK on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
K0RGR states
>Why no Element 3 test? Because Element 2 and 3 are of very similar complexity. After the merger, these two elements will be combined into one.

I did not see anything stating that Element 2 and Element 3 content were to be combined. If that were the case, with the exam containing HF material in addition to VHF/UHF, it would be less objectionable.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
A month ago I threw my first renewal letter away, now I might sign up to be a life member. Serious.

--... / ...--- , darn I meant 73
Dave
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>Who else can effectively represent YOUR amateur radio interests.<<

The same pro-code crowd has been preaching to the no-code crowd that we need to pitch in and help with the BPL battle, that's the real issue. It's like a mom now taking a toy away from a two year old. WHHHHAAAAAAHHH!!!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N2PMB on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
IT'S TIME TO GROW UP FELLOW HAMS--
The only operators that do not like this proposal
are those that had no choice. They had to learn
Morse Code to obtain HF privileges. What percentage
of those operators perpetuated their code skills once
they passed? Who's to know. What good was being forced to learn them if they were never forced to
keep showing proficiency? If it was always so important to learn then why was it not equally important to make sure operators at least retained
the minimun skills. The answer is because the Morse
Code was a tool to weed out people from entering the
hobby. Most old time operators felt that if you cared enough you would pass the Morse Code test. Well then maybe we could make the same argument about other facets of the hobby. Maybe we should have to take
satellites apart, retune repeaters, bend steel with our bare hands to prove we are truly interested before granting a licence. Furthermore, how many operators would have learned the code if they had a choice and it was optional? What about all those potential opertors through the years that maybe couldn't grasp
the Code or became frustrated trying to learn. They
were penalized and prevented from entering the hobby.
We also need to overcome the--I had to learn and
pass the Code so you should have to--Well everything
in life is not always fair
Nobody is going to ruin this hobby! There is no evidence to support the fear that new comers will not
respect or appreciate the hobby as well as those who were required to pass the Code Test. You can perpetuate
arguments for and against the Code as a requirement,
but no matter what view you have, no one can argue the
fact that if you pick up the microphone to talk and theres no one left to talk to, the hobby would be very boring!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ODY on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To the ARRL cancellers out there: did the person you spoke with at the ARRL say they'd refund your dues?
 
ARRL to Propose Dumbing down ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, you get a refund check!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The only GOOD thing I see in this, is that maybe BPL will loose out.

Maybe if we have a sudden increase of hams, BPL might not be too popular.

It would also be more paletable, if the new novices
could only buy Novice rigs. Something like those rigs that cover 10-12 meters only.

Just like when I was a Novice, it was 75W and XTAL control.

The rice box rig makers can make el cheapo rigs, that
have the band, mode,power restrictions built into firmware. Did anybody even think of that? Why did not the ARRL think of that?

What will prevent a new novice from buying a 10-160M
rig with a HENRY EXPORT AMP. It is more of a danger to the new novice than other hams.

73 MIKE

73 DE MIKE

 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
VE2DC writes:

"Cancelling ARRL membership is STUPID!!!"

Actually, belonging to a group that so fundimentally opposes what I believe in is "stupid".

Proposing to "dumb-down" ham radio is "stupid".

For what reason do we "dumb-down" ham radio? To expand the market for HF radios? To keep AD revenue flowing? So a bunch of "I want it but won't work for it" whiners can have everything without erning it?
That may be the Canadian way, but its NOT the American way. In the US, you get what you earn.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N1VLQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Respectfully, sir, what's to prevent anyone from purchasing one now? Not having a ticket? eBay lets you get right around that, quite nicely, if one seriously wants the amp. Worrying about all these new Novices going out and buying Kilowatt amps shouldn't be such a big concern. Kilowatts=Kilobucks, friends. I doubt it will be much more of a problem than it already is.
The on-the-air operating activities should be anyones concern right now, but again, that hasn't been stopped by the current system, or the system before that, anbd so on. We'll allsurvive this folks, as will ham radio.
The old adage still applies, "be part of the solution, not part of the problem."
73
Bruce, N1VLQ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG6PIR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After reading all of the replies I have read some good ones and some bad ones. I think it is good to have entry level privileges on HF. I know the only reason I started to learn Morse code was to get the HF privileges but now I am to fare gone to stop studding. What some of the readers are missing and I know will piss off some others is the fact that this proposal is just a proposal. Also in the proposal I have not heard one response talk about once this goes through that everyone no matter what there level will have 5 WPM lifetime Morse credit. So there goes the code/no-code debate out the window.

I have been studding CW for about 4 months now and I am having problems hearing the code sent at 15 WPM for the characters with spacing to bring it to 5 WPM. The biggest problem I have with the current 5 WPM system is the character speed is so high I am having a difficult time hearing the different between the dit’s and the dau’s. Now if the speed was a true 5 WPM then I would have no problem passing the test. While I am on the subject here is my two cents. Why is the Morse code test they way it is? What I would love to see is first make sure the person can copy code at a true 5 WPM and then have the person send at 5 WPM. To me it does no good to copy if I can not send.

I will continue to study the Morse code until I can copy and send at 15 WPM with spacing for 5 WPM.

I do not think the ARRL speaks for everyone who has a HAM license but I do believe that having someone who can speak for you is a good thing and because there is no one else I will still support ARRL because they are the only big boys on the block who can carry any influence at the capital.

john 73
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KB8DLI on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As a licensee from the late 80's, now a Tech Plus, who just passed Element 3 this pass Saturday (therefore a General), I am not against the "no-code" novice idea for HF. I do believe it can help the hobby. Plus it still gives General and Extra class holders areas of the frequency spectrum all their own, and assures that they can choose to associate or not with the Novices on the low bands. I also like the idea very much of keeping the 5wpm code for the Extra.

I do however strongly disagree with the automatic upgrade from Tech or Tech plus to General, instead of giving them "New Novice" status and privilages. I can't understand why the ARRL would go that way and not the latter.

I hope the League will reconsider that aspect of the proposal!!

73's
KB8DLI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Instead of studying CW, I've been refreshing my skills on the three foreign languages I already speak. HI!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Nobody questions the FCC? What is COLON POWELLS kid have to do with this?

Remember nothing is black or white.

My press experience tells me there is one heck of a ""BACK STORY""!


The wise man never shows his front or comes out of his bag. The wise man reads much on matters that others
are simply blindsided by.

There is a deep throat in this Washington D.C. Garage!!!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4FFG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To quote WD0M:

"W4FFG's comments are interesting - with all the ** words included in his response, I see he will fit right into the OF's group on 80 meter phone..."

I doubt it, I'm not old enough to have a problem with incontinence yet... And, I hope that when (if) I do get that old, that I'll have more dignity than to talk about it.

But I am curious, WD0M, why did you single out my reply? My response is no more appropriate nor inappropriate as the others who are "outraged." Maybe it's because I'm vocal enough to voice my point of view? Should I have used the ** words? Probably not. My response was emotional. If that's wrong, then I apologize.

I'd like you to read the rest of my earlier reply: Why does everyone think Techs will be bad HF ops? Lack of experience? Probably. I'll admit that I lack HF experience. But, I can learn. And I listen more than I talk. The operating rules/expectations are easily obtained, plain as day, and easy to understand. Why is there an assumption that Techs can't follow the rules that are in place?

Don Imhoff, W4FFG
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of ham  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4FFG writes:

"Why does everyone think Techs will be bad HF ops?"

They won't all be bad ops. However, let's face it, the harder you work for something, the more you cherish and appriciate it. The fact that so many will get so much for NOTHING will reflect in how they treat the provelege. Disagree? Then look at 11 meters. No effort, no respect.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD4HXG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If California recalled the governor what is to keep the amateurs from doing the same to the ARRL Leaders. Time to replace them?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of ham  
by W4FFG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:

"They won't all be bad ops. However, let's face it, the harder you work for something, the more you cherish and appriciate it."

Believe it or not, I agree with you. And, if I have to learn cw or take the General test to get on the HF bands, so be it. I can pass the theory test, the code is something else... Eventually, I'll get it. I'm just not getting it now.

But, once again, my point was missed. I wasn't talking about "fairness" or working for something. I'm talking about the knee-jerk reactions, and the trash-talking going on about the (possible) General Class upgrade that the holier-than-thou crowd seems fit to preach.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG6OXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
[tfic]It's just a massive conspiracy to get our defective president on HF and further brainwash the masses into voting for him in November. I take him for the CB type, don't you?! Boooo CB![/tfic]
I guess my opinion about 24 hours after reading the ARRL bit is: Being granted HF access should mean you know what to do, where you can transmit, what precautions to take, etc, just as the technician exam does. I tried taking a General practice exam (using common sense and guessing on unknown questions) and failed. 19 correct, 16 not.
Also, a minimum profeciency of code should only be required if you intend to transmit in a Continuous Woodpecking-only section of a band. If you're only able to send 5 characters, not words, per minute (under non-practice conditions), I bet you'll be sorely disappointed when your CQs are met with silence.
For the sheer fact that I failed the practice test, I don't think I should be upgraded automatically to General; if I am, it wouldn't matter anyway. I think expense (or the time it takes to either build a station/earn enough money to put together a commercially built one) is the major barrier to ham radio, not the exams! Even if I studied hard and got my General, would I be able to utilize my expanded privileges? No! I'd still be operating in the 2 meter/70 cm bands because I can't afford an HF setup and I have dismal luck at winning giveaway contests.
Maybe if more people get licensed, the manufacturers may bump up supply to meet the increased demand, and prices may lower. God only knows how the economics would work.
As an aside, imagine the horrific expense of the FCC having to print up new licenses for the shifting classes and the massive computer processing effort...
73,
John (not an ARRL member, by monetary lacking)
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W4FFG on January 20, 2004:
"I'd like you to read the rest of my earlier reply: Why does everyone think Techs will be bad HF ops? Lack of experience? Probably. I'll admit that I lack HF experience. But, I can learn. And I listen more than I talk. The operating rules/expectations are easily obtained, plain as day, and easy to understand. Why is there an assumption that Techs can't follow the rules that are in place?"

It has little to do with following rules. Should we grant licenses to CBers who may be able to follow rules and be good ops without having them first take a test? I think you would be ticked off if the FCC all of a sudden decided to give CBers ham licenses and put them on an equal plane with you with no test. Wouldn't you say "Hey, wait a minute. I had to take a test for my license. Now, some CBer is granted a license with no test just because he agrees to follow the rules of Part 97." I'm sorry. The honor system doesn't work on ham radio. Neither does cereal box licensing. People need to earn their licenses and their upgrades. Like I said earlier, I have no problem with the proposed new no-code Novice license for entry level. I do have a problem with dropping element 1 for General and a free upgrade with no test for all the codless Techs. At least replace Element 1 with a tougher written test for the General, with no published question pools. People need to earn their privileges. No honor system and no free rides.

 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of ham rad  
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Just wait till the CBers see the results of NCI's efforts.

Whine, complain, and put up a big enough stink and you too can have HF priveleges! Look for the "Roger-beep" CB crowd to follow in NCI's foot steps. After all, why not? Whining & complaining seems to be working!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NE0P on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
it was written:
"They
were penalized and prevented from entering the hobby.
We also need to overcome the--I had to learn and
pass the Code so you should have to--Well everything
in life is not always fair"

Exactly! So if you, for whatever reason, cannot pass a code test, too bad. Who said that life had to be fair? You just said that it wasn't. So why all this whining about how it isn't fair that some people cannot operate HF.

In addition, we don't need the ARRL. FEMA has come out opposed to BPL, and they carry much more weight than the ARRL does. To continue to fund an organization that you don't believe in is stupid. How else can you let the ARRL know how opposed you are to their mission? You can phone or email them, like they would really listen or care. The only message they understand is money, so we must vote with our pocketbooks.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KD8IO on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well I feel the ARRL has lost its mind.I thought the league was for the hams, but I see clearly now they are looking out for theirselfs only..I hope other Amateurs cancel their membership as I did. I am not wanting no part of an organization that wants to change the ham bands into CB.We have enough idots and non license people on what we worked hard to get.
I worked Dam hard for my license I hate to see them not mean anything, or refered to as cereal box license.I feel all the hams should show up at ARRL headquarters on their doorstep to protest this stupid proposal.The ARRL needs to take their collars and ties off and spend more time listening to the bands instead of begging for money.Marconi has probably turned over in his GRAVE.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG6PIR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Contrary to those who may want to turn this into a code/no-code debate or a confrontation between old guys and new guys, neither of those are the issue. I have not heard any major complaints about either of those issues from ARRL members.

The issues, as I see them, are

1) The ARRL asked for input on the code/no-code issue and received that input. They did not ask about giving General tickets to those who had not passed a General written test.

2) The ARRL saw fit to have a non-recorded vote on the proposal, thereby raising the suspicion that ALL of the Board members agreed to subterfuge. That is not how a representative body should act, especially when they knew they were dealing with a controversial subject.

3) The excuses used by the ARRL to rationalize their decision were not backed by anything but conjectures.

4) Some of the rule changes proposed are unenforceable. That is what led to the CB mess.

5) The ARRL blatantly proposed at least a short term "dumbing down" of the Amateur Radio Service. I have seen no evidence that the ARRL membership has ever supported that, but have seen lots of evidence to the contrary.

6) If the ARRL petition is accepted as is, US amateurs currently holding General class licenses would find themselves in the same position as the no-code UK amateurs - unable to operate in CEPT countries. The difference being that the current Generals can currently operate there and HAVE ALREADY PASSED ALL APPLICABLE TESTS!

7) At least one SM stated that the decision to remove Morse testing from the General exam was to allow upgrading Technicians to General. Assuming that is true, they got the membership's wishes backwards! And after such a long wait?

I'm sorry, but this is not a code/no-code issue at all. It is simply evidence of an ARRL Board of Directors out of touch with its membership and out of control.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2NZJ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
IT SHOULD HAVE READ NO ELEMENT ONE TEST FOR ALL LICENCE CLASSES. OTHERWISE it is probably the best COMPROMISED SITUATION to satisfy the majority of amateur population. the idea is good but it didn't go far enough.they I SAY AGAIN THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID REMOVAL OF ELEMENT ONE FROM THE TEST ROSTER PERIOD. othrwise the docket appears "OK". 73 TOM N2NZJ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The OMs getting the freebie upgrade, you have been around. I have mixed feelings as do some of you.
You will learn on the air. Some of you want the freebie. Some of you really want to earn it.

My real concern will be the inrush of some wanna be outlaw FREEBANDERS. Thier Give away Novice ticket is just what they have been waiting for.

Another scenario.

Many couples get NCT tickets just to save on cell phone bills. I hear them all the time on 2M. No interest in being a ham. Just, hey dear pick up a quart of milk!

The No CW, No nothing new novice ticket could be an extension of the 2Meter husband and wife FRS like service!

You will have people that have no real interest in ham radio at all!!! They just want a multiple band 100W
SSB/FM GMRS like service!!!!!!!!

I am concerned it will be a flashback to 1977, when the CB craze hit. Maybe they will dig up VAN Mccoy to write another CONVOY trucker folk/rock music song to boot!!!

IMO the ARRL had a few good idea's. However they just gave too much away!

Yes, it could be positive too, for the kind of people that believe in the ham radio operators code.

I have spoken to many fine NCT's on 440. They have mucho electronics experience. They ,I do not resent.

Yes, I am sure the new novice will bring in many fine people. Ham radio could be part of America's lexicon again.


I am at a major engineering university.
The kids getting their first degree in BSEE, have no idea that ham rsdio exist's!

I show the kids my Ham and commercial tickets. They ask me if I work for one of the alphabet agencies!!!
These new BSEE's cannot even solder!

I show them my Yeasu VX-5. They ask is that the latest radio's you spooks from the alphabet agencies use!!!!

So the new give away Novice could be bad or good.
THE KEY...They must have clubs and elmers!!

However many pointed out that the generation X slacker chump punks, do not want to be tought!!!

Yes as another poster said, the wise man is part of the solution and not the problem.

If this grand new plan was done right, it could be a new age for ham radio. Otherwise it will just be almost 30MHZ of HF CB FREEBAND !

It will also bring in some real skells and mutts!

Drug Dealers will not limit thier activity to just below 11M. They will have 80M, perfect for long haul traffic!

My hats off to the staff of EHAM. I know all of you are ultra hard core pro ARRL. Does the EHAM staff Blindly accept what has been cast down from Newington Conn.

You have not put in your personal pro ARRL bais. That is good journalistic practice and standards.

I would not mind hearing what the EHAM staff's perspective is.

I am sure your computers are really swamped, on this day of shock! I am sending in a donation for the extra
electricity and tolerance!

This is a day of shock!

73 DE MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W7DAM on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This certainly cheapens the General license I had to work for. Getting a license now means little more than paying a nominal fee and drooling on the table.

I'm sure the HF radio manufacturers love it, though.

Dave
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NJ0E on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
i don't envy the arrl directors; they were to be
villified no matter what they do. they had a "no win"
situation.

i think that it's a mistake to automatically upgrade
technicians to generals.

i think the extra class radiotelegraph exam should be
in the range of 12-16 wpm; a level of proficiency
that anyone could rightly be proud of, and a level
at which one would remember the characters even if one
didn't use the mode for a while. the problem with
5wpm is that you will soon forget the characters if
you don't use it soon after passing the test.

the radiotelegraph code provides a way in which a
large number of radio amateurs can participate in
activity the high frequency bands with each occupying
a small bandwidth. if everyone wants a 2500 hz slice
for ssb, we will soon find our high frequency
spectrum allocation intolerably crowded.

it's also alot of fun, a fact which sometimes gets
lost in all the din over whether it should be tested
for or not.

i think the level of the technical exams is about
right, but the question pool should not be released.
the fcc used to publish an outline of the subjects
covered on each element, and the arrl, ameco, and
other publishers developed their study materials
around those outlines. the ncvec should adopt a
similar tactic.

scott nj0e
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD7VDB on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
this is BS if your gonna do anything make the general class code free and dont do anything else!!!!!!!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD7VDB on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
this is BS if your gonna do anything make the general class code free and dont do anything else!!!!!!!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by KG6PIR on January 20, 2004:
"Contrary to those who may want to turn this into a code/no-code debate or a confrontation between old guys and new guys, neither of those are the issue. I have not heard any major complaints about either of those issues from ARRL members.

The issues, as I see them, are

1) The ARRL asked for input on the code/no-code issue and received that input. They did not ask about giving General tickets to those who had not passed a General written test.

2) The ARRL saw fit to have a non-recorded vote on the proposal, thereby raising the suspicion that ALL of the Board members agreed to subterfuge. That is not how a representative body should act, especially when they knew they were dealing with a controversial subject.

3) The excuses used by the ARRL to rationalize their decision were not backed by anything but conjectures.

4) Some of the rule changes proposed are unenforceable. That is what led to the CB mess.

5) The ARRL blatantly proposed at least a short term "dumbing down" of the Amateur Radio Service. I have seen no evidence that the ARRL membership has ever supported that, but have seen lots of evidence to the contrary.

6) If the ARRL petition is accepted as is, US amateurs currently holding General class licenses would find themselves in the same position as the no-code UK amateurs - unable to operate in CEPT countries. The difference being that the current Generals can currently operate there and HAVE ALREADY PASSED ALL APPLICABLE TESTS!

7) At least one SM stated that the decision to remove Morse testing from the General exam was to allow upgrading Technicians to General. Assuming that is true, they got the membership's wishes backwards! And after such a long wait?

I'm sorry, but this is not a code/no-code issue at all. It is simply evidence of an ARRL Board of Directors out of touch with its membership and out of control."

======================================================

None of this was done properly by the ARRL. Each division took a poll. In my division, the question was clear-cut. "Should the U.S. eliminate Morse Code (CW) requirement for amateur radio licenses? Yes or No." The results of the poll in my district were in favor of keeping the Morse requirement. In our division, we were also told to make our opinions known to our division manager. This I did by e-mail on 10/8/03 and again on 1/8/04. My division manager didn't reply to either e-mail.

It's really funny that the ARRL took a nationwide poll regarding refarming the Novice sub bands a few years ago, and asked how things should be redistributed. Yet this was not done with a far more important issue. Before the Board met and decided what to propose to the FCC, a nationwide referendum should have been held. All ARRL members should have been asked multiple questions regarding the code issue, like was done with the Novice sub band refarming issue a couple of years back. At the close of the referendum there should have been a text box for comments and feedback. The results of this referendum should have been published on their site. Then, and only then should the ARRL have approached the FCC with a proposal. I feel this was all done in secret and ramrodded through without member approval. That is why I, and many other ARRL members are madder than hell about what was done.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KE4CQW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hello all,

it looks like the cat's out of the bag and someone just sprayed it’s raw behind with turpentine cleaner. Hi hi for all you old timers who know about stuff my father has told me about the past. I am trying to figure out a graceful and non political way to voice my opinion.

To save you time in looking up my call sign I am a technician class license who would benefit from the proposal if it is changed. But before you go gripping and groaning please hear me out.

First off I am in principal against the change, I agree with the hobby lacking a growth but sometimes I think we have a knee jerk reaction but what we need is a good look and a calm passion to our hobby. Most people are looking at this as a down grade for ham radio but I think in ways the growth would great but I think we should temper the changes. If you give the upgrade I think it should be in a test format and a time based upgrade requirement …. (Granted I just *&$%$#^ off the pro code group) Some people like me think CW is a mode and will always be a mode, but it is also history to ham radio. I vehemently oppose removing it from ham radio totally. It has and will always serve a purpose to ham radio but not to me. I have never been much on CW it does not interest me but that is me not everyone else. Some form of upgrade test would be nice nothing to over the top but also base the HF license upgrade on time and operating habits of the person. Go back to requiring a positive contact log (ie qsl cards) to prove activity. Then at designated intervals the upgrade could be applied for and granted if the test was passed and the contacts verified.

Sorry to $%^* off the pro code group but I am willing to bet the 75 % of the “code” group could not pass the test that they are licensed at now. One other option is change the re-licensing requirements from the FCC. I say chance it to renewing every 5 years and require that a total test to be taken and passed not just a simple file a letter to the FCC. Then I bet the hobby and the pro coders would be screaming for a different view….. Oh well that’s my humble opinion on this explosive subject. Talk to all of you on 6 meters. 73 all Moe KE4CQW Code or nocode I still will talk to everyone.... QRP RULES!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6OXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH said: "Many couples get NCT tickets just to save on cell phone bills. I hear them all the time on 2M. No interest in being a ham. Just, hey dear pick up a quart of milk!"
What the heck is a ham, anyway?!!! Dictonary.com defines our meaning as: A licensed amateur radio operator.
If the couples have licenses and they operate radios for non-commercial use, then they are hams. Period. Don't bash people when you use a closed-minded and incorrect definition.

WA2JJH also said:
"The No CW, No nothing new novice ticket could be an extension of the 2Meter husband and wife FRS like service!" Nothing is quite like FRS, with a disgusting range of only a mile under normal conditions, 2 miles if line of sight (good if you live on the prairie). Assuming the new novices use HF, they will have an exponentially longer simplex range than UHF (FRS) or VHF (2M); quite an extension!

And the last nugget of pyrite (fake gold) from WA2JJH:
"You will have people that have no real interest in ham radio at all!!! They just want a multiple band 100W
SSB/FM GMRS like service!!!!!!!!" If people want to conduct radio communications for non-commercial purposes, then who are YOU to stop them? Just make sure they know what they're doing through elmering and exams, and set them free to work within the Part 97 guidelines. But I think that's too little to meet facist standards.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KH6OO on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ARRL has got it almost perfect. EVERYONE WINS! My renewal is as good as in the mail.

KH6OO
(Extra Lite)
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'M BAAACK !!!!!! beep beep beep roger beep 10-4 Good buddy
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K2PGB on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Do we get 11 meters back ?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N5VFF on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To KC0ARF....


Christian,

Thank you for your intelligent and well considered response to this contentious issue. I fully agree with all your statements. You have skipped the abundant vitriol and replied with honesty, intelligence, forethought, and wisdom.

Should this proposal, or one like it, be adopted I look forward to seeing you on HF.

73/N5VFF

A fellow technician, network engineer, and experimenter
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WB4QNG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I voiced what I felt earlier and I still feel the same way. I think the ARRL has come up with a idea that is about as good as it gets. I support them. Lets face itall the arguments are going to be for nothing if we don't get young blood in our hobby. In 20 years there won't be many hams arguing about anything most of us will be dead. I hope this helps. As for as giving away things that has been going on for over 25 years. Every ham who got there ticket before 77 or 78 could be mad at the rest of the hams because they didn't have as hard of time getting their tickets. For you youngester that is when the FCC quit requiring that you had to copy code for one minute solid and put in a 10 question mulitple choice test for the code. Then they turned around and did away with the sending part of the test. This all too marked the end of ham radio. That is life. Get over it. As for as work goes that to has changed. When I started in Accouning 30+ years ago it was paper and pencil and you had to know what you were doing. Now you punch some numbers in a computer and it comes out. You have to know nothing. Am I mad at the new kids. I have too many other health problems to add new ones from worring about this. I just hope that I live long enough to retire and there will be someone to talk to on the radio. As for as the ARRL goes it is the only game in town folks. Yea the president was elected for the third time with no one running against him. Most of the section managers win with no one running against them. Instead of dropping out if you don't like it get involved.
Terry
WB4QNG
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD4HXG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well if there was a request for opinion from the Division directed to me it never arrived. As far as I can tell I had no input in the decision making process. I doubt it would have made any difference anyway.

HQ Leaders need to be replaced or there needs to be an alternative to the ARRL!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by KE4CQW on January 20, 2004:
"Sorry to $%^* off the pro code group but I am willing to bet the 75 % of the “code” group could not pass the test that they are licensed at now. One other option is change the re-licensing requirements from the FCC. I say chance it to renewing every 5 years and require that a total test to be taken and passed not just a simple file a letter to the FCC. Then I bet the hobby and the pro coders would be screaming for a different view….."

I have a formal education in electronics and radio communications, along with an FCC 2nd Class Radiotelephone License with Radar Endorsement. I would have no problem passing an Extra exam again. Neither would I have a problem passing a code test again.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2NZJ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I FOR ONE SEE A LOT OF GOOD IN THESE CHANGES.they the A R R L HAD TO take a stand on this highly controversial MATTER. as you all know whatever new law or RM proposal is presented usually 50% ARE FOR IT,and the other 50% are against it. ( I AM FOR IT.) The only exception being it should have EXCLUDED ELEMENT ONE PERIOD. quote CHANGE IS GOOD. YOU'LL SEE THAT WHEN THIS IS APPROVED. 73 TOM N2NZJ ARLS # 807
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WI4NDS on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Capital Idea.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I guess since nearly all the astronauts for NASA are no-code techs (check their call signs in the FCC database) they can start talking on the amateur HF frequencies too. I wonder if the pro-code diehards would ignore a "CQ" calling from the space station on an HF frequency since the privilege was just given to them? They are currently bragging about all the brand-new QSL cards they're getting for their collections from all the hams in other countries that dropped the code requirement.

Hypocrisy? Double standards? Big bunch of babies?

All of the above!
 
ARRL to Propose another way to dilute the amateur  
by K8JX on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"The Amateur Radio Service" A technical service pool of self trained operators. So with this change and the attendtant reduction in theory, the service diminishes either further,cause, " We don't want to overwhelmed the poor examines with expecting them to actually know something about electronics and communications and how to put this knowledge into practice.
I think a good boycott of both the ARRL ( they really should be looking after not only our interests, but the service too) and the FCC. Thats right. start a nice letter campaign to change the commission itself. This is getting to be utterly rediculous. This country needs engineers, not users!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TO: KA0ARF

He sure doesn't know much about solid-state transceivers when you have high mismatch of 1.5 or worse. They cut back on power.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KG6OXA, SIR....You took me totally out of context.
I know darn well what the ranges are of GMRS and FRS.

Let me clarify....A whole group of people that have NO INTEREST in the traditions of ham radio, will just
have very powerfull, frequency agile transceivers!
OK, is that simple enough for you.

Your sophestry does not cut it. Go ahead call me a facist! You also left out all my good points. About how
Ham radio could be part of the American Lexicon it used to be!

IMO husband and wife teams should pay the $75, and go GMRS! It is better for them anyway. The radio's are cheaper, and they do not have to be bothered with a test or hams that are into ham radio.

Hey Popeye, my passport says U.S. of A on it too!
What you call my fools gold perception is just as valid as your free radio for all attitude!

I think Uranium hexaflouride is a better inorganic chemistry description of me. Iron Pyrite, get real(HI-HI).

Hey, if your idea is a bunch of random people being able to run around and talk on their new fangled legal 100W multiband multimode CBs, call me IRON PYRITE RF FACIST! I guess your into RF anarcy. Hey man thats cool! You are entitled to your opinion!

You left out, what I said about it could be a good thing. New people that want to be HAMS, and not use HAM radio to save on CELL PHONE BILLS!!!! In fact I think the FCC says that is illegal!

73 nothing personal. Today is a day of absolute shock!
This was just an unexpected thing we thought the ARRL
would come up with.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG4YJR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
.-- .... .- ....

-- -.-- / .--. .-. . -.-. .. --- ..- ... / -.-. --- -.. .
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AB2PN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
John KG6OXA/N6ATF Said:

“It's just a massive conspiracy to get our defective president on HF and further brainwash the masses into voting for him in November. I take him for the CB type, don't you?!”

I personally think you need to grow up a little more. Shame on you for your comment re: The President of the United States of America. If you like him or not he is still the president and you should have decency to respect his position and the office he holds.

There have been other Presidents that I have not liked either but have had the decency to show them the proper respect for the office they hold.

I would find it a real honor to to speak to the President on HF, and I'm sure if he was on HF we could solve the whole BPL issue real quick too.

When you get a bachelor's degree from Yale and a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Harvard then come back and tell us how defective he is till then I don't think your words carry much weight.

Now run along little boy I think your mommie is calling.





 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OXA:

Lighten up on Mike JJH. Besides, we love that purdy camo outfit you're wearing in your profile. Of course that pattern won't help you a bit in his part of the world.

PAN
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by NI0C on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I wouldn't even think of dropping my membership in ARRL just because I don't happen to agree with every detail of their latest proposal. If it weren't for ARRL ham radio would not exist. So count me as a loyal ARRL member who has sympathy for the leadership walking a tightrope.

However, I do feel that FISTS offered a much better proposal, which I supported in comments to the FCC. I also predict that the NCI whiners will claim that requiring 5 wpm for even an extra class license is somehow unfair.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KE4CQW on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by AG4RQ

"I have a formal education in electronics and radio communications, along with an FCC 2nd Class Radiotelephone License with Radar Endorsement."

Congrats on the educational standards and commerical license. I too have a a Degree in Electronics and work for the worlds leader in Hazardous Duty Robots for the military and commerical customers. But I know to many hams around here (Knoxville TN) that admit that they could not pass the current license class test if given today. So it's a wash..... what do we do??? When I started at the company I work at you had the understand drawings and have soldering skills and such. Now they spoon feed production with work instructions and teach military grade soldering. Am I upset.... no I am proud of the changes, we went from a 3.5 million $ company to +50 Million $ but changing the old standard was hard but the proof is in the pudding. I think if they do change it will bloom and in a few years this will be a joke. But till we have a change in heart it's all doomed to fell. I myself will not go to the HF bands for a while if they change it. I like were I am at, 6 meters is great for QRP's. Personaly I think the leagal limit should be a 100 watts but hey that's a different post... :-) 73 Moe KE4CQW
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6OXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W2JJH in quotes, my replies in context:
"Let me clarify....A whole group of people that have NO INTEREST in the traditions of ham radio, will just
have very powerfull, frequency agile transceivers!
OK, is that simple enough for you." If you want to talk about tradition, talk to Tevye.

"Your sophestry does not cut it. Go ahead call me a facist! You also left out all my good points. About how
Ham radio could be part of the American Lexicon it used to be!" I didn't call you a facist, but when people talk the way you do, they are too easily mistaken as such.

"IMO husband and wife teams should pay the $75, and go GMRS! It is better for them anyway. The radio's are cheaper, and they do not have to be bothered with a test or hams that are into ham radio." That's not for YOU to decide, or any government agency. GMRS radios that you find in most stores are cheaper, in price and quality. They cannot be used for long-range communications; the radios that can, are just as expensive or more than ham radios. You say you know about FRS and GMRS, but do you really?

"Hey, if your idea is a bunch of random people being able to run around and talk on their new fangled legal 100W multiband multimode CBs, call me IRON PYRITE RF FACIST! I guess your into RF anarcy. Hey man thats cool! You are entitled to your opinion!" I think as long as they act within FCC guidelines present and future, they should be allowed to do so. You seem to disagree and think the end of civilization will come from this. That is overly cynical and I think attitudes like that are the reason people keep writing articles about ham radio being "doomed" or "dying".

"You left out, what I said about it could be a good thing. New people that want to be HAMS, and not use HAM radio to save on CELL PHONE BILLS!!!! In fact I think the FCC says that is illegal!" Then you think wrong. It's not illegal, though I bet the cell phone industry would like it to be!

I love ham radio. Not even a landline telephone can give me the sound quality and reliablity I demand from my communications equipment. Ham radio can. Do I, or would I ever use it improperly? No.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KI4DJE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Being new to HAM has some disadvantages in making an arguement. As a Communications NCO in the US Army, I have had years of experience in the HF arena. As a new Tech class licensee though, I am trying to learn code so that I may upgrade and chase that DX. I do have limited privleges on HF as a MARS operator in training, but it is definately not the same. I think maybe it is time for us to all face the facts as they are. It seems to me that HAM is dying a slow death. As with any type of organization, without new blood, the organization will die a little with each old timer who passes away. Do we keep the code and go down with the ship or do we trade it in to pay for the tranfusion that we desparately need?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
PHILIP, TNX for the gesture of our little L.C.N.
Looked at this chumps profile. Why did I even bother
to respond. It is a 19 year old kid.

Hey kid, when you grow up, you will know the 1960's
idealism you hold so dear, was a lie!

To Quote GRACE SLICK of the SAN FRAN band Jefferson
airplane(circa 1968)

To qoute""Like, we all thought if we took the right DRUGS, read the right books, and hung out with the right people we were going to change the world""

Kid,first thing I was taught in EMT training is.....
Your not going to save the world!

After seeing your photo, all I can say is a picture is worth a thousand words!

73 no hard feeling kid...you will learn
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> This certainly cheapens the General license I had to
> work for.

Why? You did the work. You earned the license. That's what should matter to you.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6OXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AB2PN, are you focking blind? If you read the tag that I put around what you quoted me saying, you would have seen "tfic", which means Tongue Firmly In Cheek! It did not mean "please flame the hell out of me." I respect people who earn it. You just lost your chance to do so.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes I do know GMRS and FRS. Check my profile.
You asked to be flammed. There is a joke I do not even have to say!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC4EOE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Welcome to the 21st Century. Everyone will profit from this. The ARRL will get a chance to increase membership. The FCC will get a shot at more enforcement dollars in fines. The Big Three radio manufacturers will make a fortune in sales. The lesser companies will see profits rise also. The Hamfests will be super crowded and now maybe you can actually get rid of all that junk you have been hauling to them year after year. The best part of it all is we get to fry new fish on the nightime 75 meter ragchew meets. I foresee a great time on Ham Radio for the future. See you all in Orlando...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N5QDY on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, the new idea proposal WAS a bit shocking.

It seems to me that anyone who wants to upgrade to general class should simply take the general class exam. I'm AM for making general class no code. But if you're a current tech or tech-plus, why not take the general written exam. It's a breeze, for goodness sake, but it does have very important perspectives which need study. Just drop the code.

I'm still in shock. I feel like there's way too many priviledges on HF for the new folks. Again, I feel that current techs and tech plus should *take the general written exam*. Period.

I'm still just shocked.

Scott
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6OXA on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
JJH, you think I'm a 19 year old kid? I'm actually a 18 year old cranky old man at heart who likes to dress like a rent-a-cop and is "generally" avoided by shady characters. The 60's may as well be the 1800s to me, but I'm sure you have a much closer relationship with that decade! [not an old-dude joke]
I don't intend to save the world, not even the world's only superpower can do that!
Your supposed knowledge of GMRS and FRS radios is suspect if you think cheapo bubble-pack GMRS radios (that CANNOT access repeaters) come anywhere close to the range and specification of most ham radio handhelds (that CAN access repeaters and therefore have a superior range). This is my final post.
73,
John
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
YES SCOTT, A day of shock it has been!!
Still trying to come up with a good name for it.
Terrible Tuesday sounds good for now.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Rent a cop. You would not last 2 seconds in NYC.
Which water gun copy is you side arm. Is it a Plastic
Berreta 92F, Sigsour 230,232. Which Sig is 9mm and which one is a .380?

We have GMRS repeaters in NYC. The $60 motorolas
work just fine into the GMRS repeaters.

I have worked on commercial H-T's. Like the Saber Astro, Mt-1000, the old MX series.
Gee you just got your ticket a week ago! I guess your a real pro by now!

Before you bash someones experience, get you intel down.

As for you rent-a cop attire, you like more like a perp,skell,or Mutt.(Mutt is federal for skell)

I guess you knew that by now.

 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by VE2DC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE says: Proposing to "dumb-down" ham radio is "stupid".

"Dumbing down" is your narrow-minded charecterization of bringing amateur radio licencing requirements into line with current practice. Does knowing CW mean that you are "smart"... no more than learning how to juggle or any other skill one might care to master. Nor does using it automatically mean you are a "good" ham... 5 minutes in some of the pileups will convice you of that. The whole CW debate is a "much ado about nothing". If you like CW, do it, but let others make up their own minds as to what modes they like to operate.

By resigning from the ARRL you just shoot yourself in the foot... and that's a shame for both you and the ARRL.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K1IR on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm guessing that several hundred hours of effort have been invested in reading and writing all these comments. Imagine if those hours had gone into recruiting new hams with ANY kind of license, or teaching new hams how to be valuable members of our great community, or writing articles for eham that would contribute to a positive image of our avocation.

73,

Jim K1IR
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KD7PEH on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As a current Tech who stand to gain greatly from the ARRL proposal I would like to add this comment. I whole heartedly agree with the decision to remove the Morse Code requirement for all but the Extra class. I however do not agree with granting current Novice, Tech and Tech + license holders with General privilages without proving their technical knowledge through successful completion of a written exam equal to that of the current General exam. I do not believe that the intent of the WRC was to "dummy down" amatuer radio, but to bring it more in line with the skills necessary to proficiently communicate via the means and methods of the 21st century.

73,
Brian Dews
KD7PEH
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by KE4CQW on January 20, 2004:
"Congrats on the educational standards and commercial license. I too have a a Degree in Electronics and work for the worlds leader in Hazardous Duty Robots for the military and commercial customers. But I know to many hams around here (Knoxville TN) that admit that they could not pass the current license class test if given today."

I may have taken my commercial exams back in 1981 and 1982, but I took my Extra exam slightly less than 2 years ago. I doubt that things changed that much in 2 years that I couldn't pass it again. I did ace it in '02. BTW, 6m is a waste. I bought a 6m rig last July. Since then I've experienced very minimal 6m activity. Most of the time, the band is closed up tight as a drum. I'm still waiting to experience the spectacular band openings that are spoken about in these forums. I feel like I threw my money out on the 6m radio.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N0RTU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, Like this is a big surprise, right?



JUST A WORD TO THE ROCKET SCIENTISTS AT THE ARRL....

You had better DAMN WELL be prepared to un-do what you are about to do. Have you thought that far in advance? I'll wager you have not!

If anyone knows of a way to get rid of the arrl, NOW IS THE TIME! To get rid of this BOIL(spelled arrl) on the buttocks of ham radio, I would gladly open my billfold! This would DEFINATELY be a worthwile investment!
I dropped my affiliation with this "organization" years ago because of this so called "progressive" way of thinking. I'm damn glad I did! Nowadays, we have more than a few "Extra" class hams who know almost nothing at all about radio, can't copy by ear the Morse for "SOS", and think that all answers to their radio questions and problems can be answered with their Visa Cards!
As far as I'm concerned, we can thank the arrl for this!
When the day comes that the arrl as an organization is no more, and has been laid in its proverbial grave, what I'll do on that grave will most certainly NOT pass for flowers!

Mike
N0RTU
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4CNG on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
For those of you that are leaving the ARRl, don't let the door hit you on the ASS on the way out. For the rest staying, and supporting, there is not another group representing us anywhere. There are also a large group of "Complainers" that have posted way too many times, your time is UP. The Entry Level License and all of it's baggage sounds and will work very well. The "Incentive Licensing" issue never worked, me included, I told the ARRL to "Go to Hell" in 1966". I have rejoined and support their efforts on this 100%. Look at "Enhanced SSB", and they are just right back in the early 1970's when FM Repeaters became the storm. They need time to get things straight, both from the membership, and management. They have done it right and this is right, unless you want to not have your Ham Ticket in the next 20 years.
Good Luck
Steve W4CNG
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W4QEC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I passed the thirteen words a minute and Adv. test,

but I'm still don't respect advanced and Extra class

operaters.I passed and upgraded my license and I could

-n't get any advanced or Extra class operators

to come back and qso.I got flustrated and just decided

I had to be in a click to talk to the HF type and

to be in the click you had to run a minuim of 1,500

watts.The material I studdied said min. to make

qso, am I not wright.I've heard ADV. and Extra class

operators cuss and cut a fool as bad or worse than

Techs.I just believe the ones complaining is afaird

of some one stepping on thier toes for unruley acts

that they are doing on the HF bands.I believe that

HF needs these Techs in on HF to police the unruley

things going on.THis will clean up the HF's bands.



 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4CNG,

Some time during the Incentive Licensing debate in the mid 60s there was a letter in the correspondence section which simply said:

To hell with the ARRL

At the time I could not believe it was even being printed. I guess you were not the only one... unless it was your letter :)

Like you, I dropped out of the ARRL for a number of years, then came to me senses.

73
George
K3UD
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4CNG,

Some time during the Incentive Licensing debate in the mid 60s there was a letter in the correspondence section of QST which simply said:

To hell with the ARRL

At the time I could not believe it was even being printed. I guess you were not the only one... unless it was your letter :)

Like you, I dropped out of the ARRL for a number of years, then came to me senses.

73
George
K3UD
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TO: W4CNG

Hey good buddy whats your 20? Where do I get one of dem dos ham licenses for free beep beep o var to you good buddy your wall-to-wall 60/9 at my crib. beep beep 10-4
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD2KU on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
by AG4RQ on January 20, 2004

"I have a formal education in electronics and radio communications, along with an FCC 2nd Class Radiotelephone License with Radar Endorsement. I would have no problem passing an Extra exam again. Neither would I have a problem passing a code test again."

Where have you been all these years? The 1st and 2nd RT licenses were "dumbed down" long ago to one class "General Radiotelephone license"- and issued for life.

Code- oh gawd... some people can play golf- I could never hit the same ball twice. It is a learned skill and not everyone can master it. I knew hams who could copy code in their head that no longer sounded like code. I considered them "code Savants". They were just not "normal" people. They were downright weird.

:-)









 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N8MMZ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gloria in Excelsisdeo! Reason reigns!!

I am going to hang on to my old Yaesu FT-102 for my dad (a retired radar engineer, now consultant) and my FT-7 for my brother (an Air Force acquisitions officer for US. Space Command) - both of whom are interested in the hobby, very academic, but too busy to learn a new language due to their career paths.

I sincerely doubt that they will bring the CB'er stuff to the bands.

I also have a new incentive to offer my busy graduate student buddies at Georgia Tech, many of whom have wondered about that big black box on my desk! Many of whom also became disinterested at the thought of having to learn morse code - they were too busy focusing on their studies to put forth the effort. I can't blame them for that decision.

Bravo ARRL!

73's
N8MMZ (13WPM General)

Jonathan
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N9ESH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey! What about 20-Meters? Shouldn’t the newcomers have a taste of that band too? Sure smells fishy to me.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TO: N8MMZ

Soon to be a five-star general ZERO CODE I gardueighted from grade 8. Whooooppeeee
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by JN3XCV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
by W9WHE on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Utter nonsence. UHF/VHF mabe, but not HF. There are very few (if any) commercial enterprises lining up for a piece of the HF spectrum. Its way too fickle to be commercially reliable for most uses."

Not even VHF, The stuff that is being worked on starts with 5MHZ bandwidths. Data is the thing of the future and OFDM is one of the prime modulation techniques. The smallest OFDM proposal that is commercial uses 256 carriers with one coming from Korea that uses 2048 carrier OFDMA in a minimum 10MHZ channel. Our VHF bands are too small. The coveted areas are 700MHz to about 3 GHz.

73
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by KD2KU on January 20, 2004
"Where have you been all these years? The 1st and 2nd RT licenses were "dumbed down" long ago to one class "General Radiotelephone license"- and issued for life."

I never had a General Radiotelephone License (GROL). I never renewed my 2nd class RT Lic. (P2-7-15540), so I never had the dumbed down lifer GROL license. Due to the fact that I no longer was using it, I let it go. I wasn't going to pay the fee for a lifetime license if I was no longer going to use it.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W5GNB on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Rather than call this the new "NOVICE" class, it should be corectly titled as the "CB-PLUS" class of license!!
I never thought I would live long enough to see the day come but I guess it's almost here!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KK7AC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR;

Nice touch on the dits and dahs on your post...you had to look those up didnt you? And responding to a CQ call on HF while in outter space? - I dont know how well an HF signal below 15 meters will propagate since HF BOUNCES off the ionsphere... poor at best, and better space communications would happen best in the UHF and above spectrum. But then again you probably would not know that since you have never operated a sky wave mode. Just an observation. -KK7AC
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2BOB on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WELL I THINK THAT BEFORE THE ARRL OR THE FCC MAKE THERE MOVE TO UPGRADE TECH AND TECH +, TO GEN THEY SHOULD UPGRADE ALL GEN WITH 13 WORD PRE MIN TO A HIGH CLASS SO NOT TO BE IN THE SAME CLASS WITH THE 5 WORD PRE MIN, IT LOOK LIKE EVERY TIME THE ARRL MAKE A MOVE TO DO SOME THING IN THE AMATEUR BAND THE GEN'S ALWAY GET THE END OF THE STICK. I THINK IF THE TECH AND THE TECH + ARE GOING TO BE GRANDFATHER TO GEN CLASS THEN THE GEN WITH 13 WORD SHOULD BE GRANDFATHER TOO. I KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO HEAR SOME THING ABOUT THIS.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2NZJ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
MORSE CODE IS NOT THE HOLY GRAIL OF MODES.it is only as every radioman knows only the first MODE of many to FOLLOW. it should not be a test REQUIREMENT.the rm proposal SHOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED FULL ERADICATION OF ELEMENT ONE PERIOD. the only reason they left the requirement stand was to satisfy a certain special interest GROUP ONLY. ( APPEASEMENT ) I AM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME. no one is looking to ERADICATE CW THE MODE.JUST THE TEST REQUIREMENT ONLY.CW IS GOOD MODE to those who use it ENJOY IT. AS THE REST OF US ENJOY OUR FAVORITE MODES AND BANDS. i hope this RM passes it will be a revelation for the betterment of hobby.QUOTE ALL MODES ARE GOOD. 73 N2NZJ TOM ARLS # 807
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
0) It's a hobby, people.

1) The Vandals are not at the gate. At the peak of the CB craze in 1974, there were 10 million licensed CB users, and even more that hadn't bothered to license. Based on the best information available, there are around 100,000 CBers in the US.

2) The ARRL couldn't just propose HF privs for the entry license -- they tried that once and the FCC turned them down flat.

3) It is not a 'fact' that more ARRL members were in favor of keeping element 1 then against it. No one, except possibly the directors, has any idea where ARRL members stand as a group.

4) If the ARRL makes any more money as a result of this, it will simply be because they did part of their job: attracting new people to the hobby. In itself, there's nothing wrong with this.

5) It's a hobby. The way you 'work' for it isn't by taking tests, it's by getting on the air and participating.

6) The ARRL did listen to members. True, it took a little effort to get them to do so, and I think they should have been more proactive, but, after enough prodding, the directors did solicit input.

7) If the issue was so important to you, why wait for the ARRL to ask for you opinion? I didn't. I wrote to my SM who put me in touch with my division director. Email is easy.

8) By the way, if the FCC petition does get acted on, you'll have another chance to express your opinion -- directly to the FCC.

9) Element 2 and 3 cover the same aspects of amateur radio. Element 4 does as well. The major difference is how much material is covered for each aspect.

10) There isn't going to be a huge influx as a result of the change. The people you're afraid of have all moved to the internet, 'cuz it's easier and cheaper for what they want to do.

11) There aren't any commercial spectrum users lusting after the HF bands. Commercial broadcasters are moving *away* from HF -- which is part of why it was so easy to get the 40m agreement.

12) Deciding whether to join, stay, or leave the ARRL on the basis of this one action is short sighted.

13) Whether there's an influx of hams in the US or not isn't going to have any impact at all on BPL. Even if the ham population tripled, it would be a tiny constituency, when compared to internet users.

14) Would those who claim that in the US you get what you earn please explain Paris Hilton to me.

15) Anyone can buy any amateur radio. The people who "freeband" aren't going to care if the licenses are restructured.

16) I don't know about you, but the things I cherish most are *not* the things I work hard at. They're the things that come as a complete surprise -- like a special sunset.

17) It doesn't matter to me if other people have to take the same path to a destination I do. If there's reasonable case for dispensing with license testing, then it should be dispensed with. There are many roads to any destination.

18) It's not unusual for directors to vote by voice. Roll call votes are pretty uncommon.

19) By the way, the board did everything it could to make it seem that there was support for code testing among the membership -- up to and including a poll that was biased in favor of code.

20) People who want a "GMRS/FRS FM" license could already get one with the tech license.

21) Division directors aren't "headquarter's leadership". They represent their divisions and only meet face-to-face twice a year.

22) The actual definition is: Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

It doesn't say you have to be fully trained before you start using the service. It says you have to be interested in learning about radio techniques.

23) By the way, most of the *service* provided by amateurs is provided in VHF/UHF by people with tech licenses.

24) Ain't nothing in regs that requires one to be interested in the "traditions" of the hobby.

25) By the way, we *did* change the world. And those of us who were paying attention weren't surprised when it didn't change the way we wanted it to.

We furthered civil rights for minorities. We got the candidate presidential selection process out of the back rooms and into the hands of the people. We made the first real steps to environmental awareness. We helped get the US out of Vietnam with fewer casualties than would have happened if we hadn't protested; a war, by the way, that we died in by the thousands. We pushed back the tide of anti-woman attitudes that arose in the 50s. *We* put a man on the moon in 10 years -- something dubya doesn't think can be done now in less than 17.

Anyway, you're all just jealous 'cuz we had the best sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll. ;) (and the ones that mother gives you don't do anything at all.)
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0RTU, I have no great love for the ARRL. However it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The ARRL created this plan. They will have to be the
ones to be held accountable for the in rush of the new
Novice class. It will be their resposibility to see that the new novice will be orderly.

I do not like it as much as you! There are something like 700,000 hams. Maybe 175,000 are ARRL members.

I guess this is the day everything came to a head.

The grand promise of a ham radio as a proud hobby again or 30MHZ of CB will be the ARRL'S legacy.

Funny how the usual ARRL brass guy(not mentioning his call) has not checked into EHAM today.

He is the dude that likes to arrow quote. Can never say he could be wrong! Comes across like the imperial wizard of ham radio, and all of life in general.

Did the president of the ARRL even comment on this terrible Tuesday?
NO!

Machevelli was right! The Art of war by sen su states that when out-numbered, retreat!!

Unfortunitly, there are the only reps we have. A viable choice would be nice.
I have not given a red cent to the ARRL for over 25 years. That is my right. I could careless what the lifetime hard core ARRL bullies will say to me.

Everything the ARRL has done in the past 25 years, I did not like! NOBODY SHOULD EVER BE PRESSURED OR GUILT
TRIPPED! In fact the more they bully, the more people get turned off!
Few months ago, I was ready to rejoin the ARRL.
Then I was cuasticly lambasted by the arrow quote king of the ARRL on EHAM. FAHGETABOUTIT!

I guess the ARRL will have all the new Novices to get money from. So their money problem is solved.

The NRA is a lobby! The ARRL would like to think they are the NRA of ham radio.

The president of the ARRL seems more level headed than the arrow quote king.

You get more flies with honey than regents grade glacial hydrochloric acid!

I guess it is good that the EHAM staff are not lambasting free speech on said issue.

Your Niro of Rome idea visa-vi ARRL is cathartic, and perhaps thereputic to many!

A founding father of psch said this....Yes I should forgive all my ememies.....only after I visualise them hanging to death from a tree.

Give time, time. See what goes down.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC9FAC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>VAN Mccoy to write another CONVOY...

That's C.W. McCall. I remember that.
Frightening, huh?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6AMW on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ok, time out. Lets go down to the local bar (pub) have a few drinks, tell some jokes, listen to some old music, and then pick up the blood letting in the morning.

KG6AMW
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK marty, I do agree with your Paris Hilton angst.
What is the lyric..Money for nothing and the chix for free. That is show biz.

You do have to apply for a GMRS lic. Even an extra ticket gives you NO right to operate on GMRS.
You simply goto the FCC website. Give them your credit card number. Then in minutes, your GMRS Ticket and callsign gets printed up on your computer printer.

FRS 500MW No lic of course. You can also use speech encrytion on FRS

BTW I had my fun too in the late 70's. I am not a TED
Nugget/Gordon Liddy hybrid!(HI-HI)

73 DE MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KE4MOB on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What's REALLY going to be funny is when

A) The ham population in the US continues to decline.
B) The VHF/UHF bands are completely vacant because everyone is on HF.

and

C) Nobody really cares.

What then?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K7FD on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
There's never been a better time to check out:

http://www.fists.org

73 John K7FD
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N7ORS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here is my take on it:

Where do you think the potential future Hams will come from? I believe a large proportion of them are surfing this Web and if they are at all interested in Amateur Radio they are reading all of your posts and "taking it all in". By reading attacks and flaming posts from experienced Hams they form opinions about acceptable behavior.

Ask yourself where have you observed politeness, comraderie, and encouragement from other Hams? It ain't on a web site...The answer is on the amateur bands. It can be found there every day on every band.
Should we not practice a small amount of restraint and diplomacy on a public forum that is viewed by "The Public". Oh, you thought this was a private debate site? Wrong. It is a public forum and what you post here not only reflects on yourself but on the amateur community as a group.

Think about it. Why would you act one way on the air and then throw away all principles of being a gentleman (or woman) when you jump on E-Ham?
When you are angry about something you don't attack fellow ops on the air...why engage in flame wars on E-HAM.

If you don't like a policy you all know the avenues to have your concerns heard. Once you hit that post button you can't take it back. Being a Ham is "never having to say your sorry". "Ask not what Amateur Radio can do for you. but what you can do for Amateur Radio".

We are better than this. Let's show the Public.

Disclaimer: I am not a Preacher, I just play one on E-Ham.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N2PMB on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TO ALL MY FELLOW AMATEUR OPERATORS:
Please call a truce-I've already voiced my opinion
and I've read everyone else's opiopn. We need to stick
together no matter which side of the debate your on.
Some of the comments are cruel and sarcastic. Let us
all remember that we are already a minority. Very few
people outside the ham community understand the love
of the hobby. Instead of arguing and bickering--lets
pull together and assist the FCC,the AARL, ad ourselves
by nurturing new operators to respect the hobby and to
keep it proud so no one comming in ever develops a "CB"
mentallity. WE Police the bands and we will teach new comers to do the same!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N7ORS, hate to admit it, you are very right!

I guess not even the EHAM folks that put up with our
crap, know how many are non hams. They are watching!

It could be a huge number. Future hams are forming opinions. There might be many SWLers too.

I guess they see a very strange picture.

73 DE MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD7YOE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Great Idea ARRL !!! They showed they are ready to enter the 21st century.
To the amateur who said he wasn't asked for his opinion, BULL! We were asked many times and I gave them my opinion. I'm glad they listened.
KD7YOE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To: N7ROS

I am also sick and tired of the bigoted comments on this site. I came into the ranks from CB, I came in from the no code tec path. I don't let the bigoted comments get to me, I have been an Extra for some time now, I am also a VE, I go to ham fests and I am an Elmer. To any non-hams who may be reading, don't let the naysayers discourage you. If you put forth the effort, you'll enjoy the hobby as much as I do. Guys like me will welcome you to amateur radio.


73
 
Hurray! Thank you ARRL  
by KQ6XA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you ARRL!
This is a good thing for the future of Amateur Radio.
You have my support.

---Bonnie KQ6XA
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KD8IO on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
All I want to say to all HAMS is.
How many times has the ARRL ever emailed you back when you write them for any reason ????
Boys you had better wake up and smell the ARRL.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh please...The ARRLs proposal is just one of many that have been sent in to the FCC. I'm sure they have received a billion e-mails over this.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K1XV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Will undoubtedly be opposed by inflexible old timers, with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. We should not let amateur radio die with them.

Face it, code is great for those who like it or acquire a taste for it. While it should never be banned (like spark gap), it has no relevance to modern day communications outside amateur radio. If amateur radio is supposed to reflect state of the art technology and operating practice, why must we remain mired in mandating proficiency in now obsolete operating practices and modes? Morse is not used by military, marine, or any other non-amateur service any more.

Go for it, ARRL. And this is from someone who passed the 20 wpm code test, can copy 30 wpm, and was first licensed in 1962.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K8KAS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Does it really matter any longer, just give them the dam license, their already clueless on what used to make someone a HAM. ARRL, what a joke.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KI4BSL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Wow, don't I feel great...took my element 1 and 3 last Saturday. Looks like I could have waited and gotten the "prize" without any work at all. It almost makes you sick; the upper license classes should be attained by hard work, and that includes a CW test even for General class in my opinion. I studied for months for that CW and theory test. Now everyone that has the plain ol' tech license will have the same privilages I do. Thanks ARRL!

I just hope that they are doing what is best for us amateurs, and I hope that maybe I just don't see it at the moment.

73 to all,
KI4BSL
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3JZG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well a day after I sent my email off to all the directors and presidents of the ARRL, I expected nothing less then not hearing back from them which I have not, and Ill refuse to give them another dollar of my money. I agree with quite a few others here that HF is going to turn into 23mhz. And dont give me that bull that the ARRL is going to stand up for me with BPL, they wont. They will get some kind of "offer" they couldnt refuse and end up selling out like they are selling out now, besides what difference is BPL going to do when HF is going to be turned into 400 channels with upper and lower sidebands... One thing is for sure, there ARRL must be hopeful for a "few" new memebers, and I guess the manufacters are just spinning thinking about how many new radios they will be selling...And dont think this will do anything for the price of these already overpriced behemoths except that what will always be true price*demand=BIG PROFITS... Yea, thanks ARRL, you fooled me into joining your club, but at least my eyes are open now.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> However, it makes NO SENSE to give General Class
> licenses to people who have only passed the much
> simpleer Technician exam. Current Tech and Tech Plus
> licensees should be converted to Novice.

Let me offer a personal viewpoint. Right now, after the last restructuring, the entry-level license is the Technician. Compared to the entry-level license that got me into radio, a Novice license with a 3.5 page study guide, http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/novice63.html, today's Technician license requires a 200-page study guide to really learn the underlying material -- the easiest way to pass the tests.

I have to note that I don't believe I would have entered ham radio at age 13 if W1BNB had handed me a 200-page book to study instead of a 3.5 page virtually no-technical-content study guide. And I am sure the old timers of my era were proclaiming that amateur radio was ruined for letting in the likes of me.

Right now, that Tech license essentially gives that new amateur exposure only to his or her local VHF community. In some areas, that provides support and encouragement; in other areas it does not. The only operation that most of them can do easily is VHF repeater FM. Sure, some who have the abilility and location to put up a big antenna can do VHF+ weak-signal work, or satellite, but their ham-radio universe is very limited.

Yes, with Morse code, they can get seriously limited access to parts of HF that are so deserted that they are on the plate for "refarming" to use the spectrum term, but that has not proven to be a successful way for hams to become active on HF. And on HF, with a simple wire in the trees, hams can build stations easily that are capable of worldwide communications at 100-watt levels.

Having an entry point that is much more difficult than the old Novice, more difficult than the more recent Novice and very limited for most in practical application has led us to a state where youth is not entering ham radio; most who get licensed today are not in their teens and where most who enter ham radio do not get active in any sense of the word.

Contrary to the proclamations of some, ham radio is not withering on the vine, but it is aging. If steps are not taken now to ensure that there is new blood, eventually, those proclamations will be true.

By my view, those are the valid reasons to want an entry-level license that truly is entry level.

The ARRL proposal limits power to 100 watts on most HF bands, and to 50 watts on 28, 50, 144, 222 and 420-MHz allocations. The New Novice proposal does not allow operation about the 70 cm band. The power levels were selected to be below the levels that the FCC requires to do an RF-safety evaluation of the station, thus mimimizing the number of RF-safety topics that would have to be considered for the exam.

IMHO, all of these factors are related to the reasons to merge the Tech, Tech+ and General license classes. First, if the reasons for the change to offer significant HF access to all licensees, to eliminate the balkanization that comes from segregating new hams to spectrum where they are not part of the "action" that is important to most of us HF hams, then taking steps to bring them into mainstream amateur radio is, IMHO, important.

There have been a number of different Technician exams given over the years, with older ones being exactly equivalent to General, and newer ones being not so drastically different in technical content than the General, and certainly as technical as the General exam of my era (1964), that I passed after studying no more than the 16-page chapter in the ARRL study guide.

I have learned far more about amateur radio by operating than by studying, so getting hams on the air is the best teaching tool we have. This would not work without some fundamental background, so the old Novice exam I took, for example, should not be enough to warrant merging the Novice into the General privilegs. But, IMHO, the scope of the Technician exam is enough. Yes, they haven't been tested in things like the band edges, but those are about to change, and few could seriously think that this isn't something a new ham could solve in about a minute.

What are the alternatives for Technicians? Taking away privileges, and doing so was the biggest fault in the incentive licensing restructuring that happened last century. If the Technicians were going to be merged into the New Novice, who would want to tell the Technicians doing weak-signal work and design on 1.2 GHz; 3.3 GHz; 5.6 GHz; 10 GHz and 24 GHz, just as examples, that their contributions to amateur radio on that spectrum are no longer required? Who would tell the Technicians that are working as we speak on developing protocols for amateurs to make use of 802.11 equipment under Part 97 that they will wake up the next day and not be able do continue? Who would want to tell the Technician doing moonbounce that tomorrow, he has to cut his power back to 50 watts?

When the FCC did the last restructuring, they chose not to merge most license classes. Instead, they permitted people to continue to renew Novice and Advanced licences. They actually did merge Tech and Tech+, but they kept the need for a separate code test and separate privileges. So the simplification of 6 license classes left us with 6 license classes. The "legacy" license types were orphans, and, from all indications, virtually all of the Novices were doing nothing with their licenses and the Advanced was the most inactive of the "mainstream" amateur classes. IMHO, I agree with ARRL that it is time to put that behind us and no longer keep such orphan, ill-used license classes in the structure of amateur radio.

With all of that in mind, I can understand why the ARRL chose to recommend that the Tech, Tech+ and General license classes be merged. It is not a perfect solution, but in the patchwork quilt of what has become the most most convoluted and balkanized amateur radio structure in the world, it is, IMHO, the best choice.

How well it could work is up to the amateur radio service more than any other factor. As these new hams come to HF, with enthusiasm and start in their eyes, they will have the same dumb questions I had after passing that dumbed-down Novice exam of the 1960s. If we offer help and encouragement, this can work, and they will do what we all want them to do, learn and grow within amateur radio. If we offer the anger and discouragement some have offered here, it will all be for naught, and any change, and perhaps amateur radio, could fail.

Just my personal views, guys, but those who know me well know that I call them the way I see them. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by COMMGUY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
sweet now i can get my license now and get a full code license for 12 bucks. heh. . . echo mic on worldwide channel radio. what is ssb stand for?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> 3) It is not a 'fact' that more ARRL members were in
> favor of keeping element 1 then against it. No one,
> except possibly the directors, has any idea where
> ARRL members stand as a group.

If you were to ask 10 hams what to do with code testing and restructuring, you would get 12 different answers. Actually, from all I have seen from my cubbyhole in the ARRL Lab, the split appears to be pretty close to even. If there were a "majority" view, it would probably be that the question of Morse code testing is not at the top of the list of the important issues facing amateur radio today.

> 4) If the ARRL makes any more money as a result of
> this, it will simply be because they did part of
> their job: attracting new people to the hobby. In
> itself, there's nothing wrong with this.

One cannot talk about ARRL "making" money without talking about how it will spend that money. The League has a paid staff (underpaid, by most standards), but there are no stockholders, so minor variations in the ebb and flow of finances, all that comes in translates directly into programs to benefit amateur radio. Take a look at the ARRL web page index to get a good idea of what ARRL does with this "made" money.

> 8) By the way, if the FCC petition does get acted
> on, you'll have another chance to express your
> opinion -- directly to the FCC.

And I sure encourage hams to do so. I see value in having amateurs gather behind the compromise that ARRL put together, because the alternative is to have such a convoluted mix of proposals that the FCC decides for us -- and we have seen the result of that. But hams who agree or disagree with any or all of the convoluted mix of proposals that are on the plate right now SHOULD make their views known to the FCC.

> 11) There aren't any commercial spectrum users
> lusting after the HF bands. Commercial broadcasters
> are moving *away* from HF -- which is part of why it
> was so easy to get the 40m agreement.

But there ARE unlicensed users of spectrum lusting after our HF bands, so activity is critical, IMHO, to retaining effective use of them.

> 13) Whether there's an influx of hams in the US or
> not isn't going to have any impact at all on BPL.
> Even if the ham population tripled, it would be a
> tiny constituency, when compared to internet users.

It would make a big difference. Right now, the BPL industry is claiming that there have been no reports of interference from their trial areas. Not true, btw, even though many of the trials are small, but in Briarcliff Manor, NY, even though the system covers about 5 long streets, there are hams in the trial area. Unfortunately, not a one is active on HF, so we don't have a "real" interference case to report from that trial area.

In Potomac, MD, 15 watts of transmitter outside a house in the trial took the modem down. 100 watts a half-mile up the road did the same. If there were lots of active hams, the unlicensed folks would be looking to other spectrum and technology to make sure their stuff worked.

> 16) I don't know about you, but the things I cherish
> most are *not* the things I work hard at. They're
> the things that come as a complete surprise -- like
> a special sunset.

Or a winning lottery ticket! :-) The value of amateur radio to me is not in how hard I worked at getting licensed -- it is the value of my access to spectrum and the value of what I can do with amateur radio. We all got access to the WRC bands a few years back, with no additional requirements. They are among our most valued bands of all, and the conduct of hams there seems to me to be better than on some of the bands we had to work to get.

> 18) It's not unusual for directors to vote by voice.
> Roll call votes are pretty uncommon.

The general rule in any organization is that once an organization makes a decision, the proponents and opponents support it. We do that with the law of our land, for example. I don't agree with every law, but I support the principle of law, because without law, we have anarchy.

> 19) By the way, the board did everything it could to
> make it seem that there was support for code testing
> among the membership -- up to and including a poll
> that was biased in favor of code.

The "passion" here tells us clearly that there is support for code testing among ARRL membership. The ARRL proposal included code testing for that very reason. There is also support to eliminate code testing altogether, or any number of variations in between. That is the nature of the substance from which compromises are made.

> 21) Division directors aren't "headquarter's
> leadership". They represent their divisions and
> only' meet face-to-face twice a year.

The ARRL Directors set ARRL policy. They meet as a body twice a year, with separate major committees also meeting at other times of year. The headquarters staff does not set ARRL policy, under the leadership of Dave Sumner, they carry it out. The Board does not generally get involved in the details of doing that (micromanagement is left to Dave, and even then, he hires good managers who hire good staff).

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by G0GDU on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Adding to my earlier post.

To AG4RQ,

If a decision were made to upgrade all Foundations licence holders to Intermediate without further test, I guess I would accept that this as being progressive and that whilst I may have been required to complete the Intermediate test things have moved on. I would hope that I would not consider myself superior to those who have been upgraded in this way. This is much like having personally passed a Morse test at 12 wpm, I was not overly concerned or disturbed when the requirement was initially reduced to 5 wpm and has now been removed completely.

I do not exclusively use CW, but am thankful for being able to its advantages when the going gets tough, an SSB signal on my frequency does not bother me when using CW but can the same be said for the SSB operator when I use CW? The majority of hams I speak with do not see the removal of the Morse test requirement as being the elimination of the CW mode, in fact some no-code operators are making the effort to learn Morse now is not a mandatory requirement for operating on the HF bands.

Your explanation as to the way examinations work in the US explains to some extent the feeling about dumbing down, but why does this require vitriolic comments often ending up with a code / no-code debate. Surely we all entered this diverse hobby because of personal interests and would all wish to see it continue and grow in the future. Is being a Ham about the way we obtain our licence or about our wish to communicate by radio. The nature of the debates in eham and similar forum surely do more to turn away potential hams from the hobby than to suggest that these people are representative of those with whom they may wish to communicate.

In the UK, it is required that candidates for all classes of licences now have to undertake a prescribed course of tuition before they can sit the examination. All Hams now have to start at the foundation level and progress through the Intermediate level before they can acquire a full licence.

The technical content of the requirements for each level is progressively more complex. There are publications where candidates are able to review typical examination questions, but the official pool of questions is not published. As a trainer/examiner I obviously have sight of the questions asked but the question papers have to be returned after the examination. The questions asked in each examination do vary, so that it reduces the ability of a candidate to memorise the answers unless one has access to the entire pool.

To some extent we have already experienced this type of change in the UK. Yes we had some die hards who oppose change but on the whole these changes seem to have been accepted.

When the Novice licence was replaced by the Foundation and Intermediate licences, all Novice licence holders were upgraded to Intermediate. It’s fair to say the technical examination now required for the Intermediate Licence is comparable to that originally required for the Novice licence, but the upgrade did give them a significantly greater access to bands with an increase from 5W to 50W. Whilst a Class A Novice licence originally had limited access to the HF bands, the Intermediate licence enabled access to all HF bands.

When the Foundation licence was introduced it gave access to all HF bands except 10m, a privilege not at that time enjoyed by the Full and Intermediate Class B (no-code) licence holders. Some of the class B licence holders saw the Foundation licence as a way of getting onto HF bands without having to pass a Morse test. Although they were exempt from attending a training course and taking the Foundation Licence exam they did have to a Morse assessment to prove their ability to send and receive but with no minimum speed requirement.

As a consequence a number of the M3’s operating up to July 2002 were Class B Intermediate and Full Licence holders and proved their ability to communicate on the HF bands using only 10W. Since the removal of the Morse test requirement a number of these have now reverted to their old class B calls (i.e. G1, G6, G7, G8 and M1 three letter calls) which permits them to operate as Full licence holders on all HF bands with 400W and as a consequence will now give up their M3 calls.

When first licensed as G6NUM I was, as a no-code operator, restricted to 50 MHz and above, in effect 144 MHz and above since 50 MHz and 70 MHz allocations only became available after I had passed the 12 wpm Morse test.

During my time as a class B licence holder I was able to use my station “for the purpose of self-training in communication by radio telecommunications”. I learnt a lot about communications and operating, which helped immensely when I was able to migrate to the HF bands.

Unlike the Foundation licence training course I had no formal training or practical experience in operating procedures before I was licensed, I had to learn by my mistakes and with the help and understanding, thankfully, of those I met on air.

To KG6PIR

It is not correct to state that no-code UK amateurs are unable to operate in CEPT countries.

Since the requirement for a Morse test as removed in July there is no distinction between those who have passed a CW test and those who have not.

Anyone holding a Full licence is permitted to operate in a CEPT country; this always being the case whether or not they had passed a Morse test. It is true however that anyone holding a Foundation or Intermediate licence, whether or not they passed a Morse test, is not permitted to operate in CEPT countries.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AB6MH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I read the proposal and immediately sent my ARRL VE badge back to them in the mail. I also will let my subscription expire on the 31st of March. The ARRL does not speak for me any longer. Even if this proposal isn't adopted by the FCC ... I know where their head is at. They are looking at more hams, more money ... by way of increased membership! The dumbing-down of ham radio at its finest!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Everything the ARRL has done in the past 25 years, I did not like!

Why do you not like:

The RFI program
The Big Project - amateur radio in the classroon
ARRL's support of scouting
ARRL's support of SAREX
Product Review testing
The ARRL Technical Information Service pages

Just to name a few examples.

Oh, and if you prefer that I use quotes instead of arrows so that you and others will know to which parts of your post I am responding, I will try to remember to do so. It is just that arrows are the convention on most discussion boards, so they are generally well understood.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> How many times has the ARRL ever emailed you back
> when you write them for any reason ????

I have 9,000 sent mails in my 2003 Sent Mail folder, about half of which are correspondence with members. The ARRL Lab in toto responded to 11,000 inquiries last year. This doesn't count other staff.

If you email ARRL and don't get an answer, that is not right. Try again, because email does get lost, and if you still don't get an answer, email your ARRL Division Director with a complaint, or me. (It ain't my job, but I will help anyway).

I do have one suggestion. Do not leave the subject blank, with "Hi" or "URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL" as the subject line, or anything else that can be confused with spam. I will go to work soon and there will be 300 spam message in my INBOX and the ONLY way I can get things done is to clear them quickly. I choose to do it by hand because I will do a more accurate job than the spamblocker programs, from what I have read.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG4YJR on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

That's fine Martin, AB6MH. Go away and take all that bitterness and narrow-mindedness you have with you. You won't be missed. Myself and many others now will take over where you left off and with a little more tolerance and open-mindedness than you have. I'm personally looking forward to everyone being on the same side for a change....hopefully. Oh yeah, are you going to tear up any QSL cards you get from new hams with new HF priviledges? I'll make sure you're on my list.

73
Soon to be ARRL Diamond club and life member :o)
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Well a day after I sent my email off to all the
> directors and presidents of the ARRL, I expected
> nothing less then not hearing back from them which I
> have not, and Ill refuse to give them another dollar
> of my money.

You should have sent the email to your own Division Director and, if you wish, cc'ed the President and Vice Presidents. Normally, the Prez and VPs would defer to the Director to make a response. In seeing the long list of recipients, each would probably assume that you were not in his Division, so would not presume to speak for other Directors.

They sometimes do, though, although I would imagine they are more than a day behind. Before jumping to the conclusions that ARRL doesn't want to hear from you, give it a reasonable amount of time and direct your member input to your Director. I suggest that you forward a copy to your Director, telling him that you really would like to hear his views on what you had to say.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Don't just "consider" canceling your ARRL
> membership. Do it. I cancelled today. And I
> encourage all that feel strongly to do the same.
> SEND A MESSAGE.

If your local electric utility decides it wants to try BPL, can we tell them that they can't do it in your town, except on your street.

I am always disheartened when I am working on finding ways to use ARRL resources to do things that I believe are critical to the future of amateur radio when I see someone bragging about taking some of those resources away.

73, Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> That's why the ARRL sold us down the river. It's all about membership and money.

Those that made the decisions don't get to keep any of the money, so I am not sure how you can justify that one.

In what way were you sold down the river? What privileges will this take away from you? I will be able to to continue to do whatever I have been doing in ham radio. Will not you? The difference is that instead of seeing a continuing gradual decline in on-the-air activities in ham radio, we might see some fresh enthusiasm.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KG4YJR on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good morning Ed,

Looks like we might be on the same team in the not too distant future after all. I had thrown away my first membership renewal form but now my renewal and my wife's is guaranteed. Plus there is a good chance of me upgrading it too.
As I've already mentioned, looking forward to the benefits that the 31 plus other countries are already enjoying and no it hasn't destroyed or turned ham radio into CB abroad so think of a different excuse people.

73
Dave
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by WW8WV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
SIMPLE...MONEY TALKS AND BULLSHIT WALKS!!!

I agree with most in saying that the TECH's should only be given novice priv's. But to give them General and then give them the Advance protion on some bands. I don't even know what to say, the HELL with it.

I had already removed myself from the ARRL because of all the junk mail they were sending me asking for more and more money to help fund projects that I thought my dues were already going towards. If all I wanted was a magazine, I would have subscribed to CQ! I was thinking of rejoining the ARRL but I will have to think about 10x's as much now.

And as to W1RFI's repeated posts. I think what he is doing to limit RFI and BPL is very important work and needs to be supported if not by money then by contacting your local polliticians Etc... And If the ARRL were putting my membership dues toward that then I would rejoin today but I will not do it for just a magazine subscription. And I will not do it and support the "DUMBING DOWN" of the hobby.

This is a clear ploy for more membership which = more money. and again, MONEY TALKS AND BULLSHIT WALKS!!

Jeremy Lewis
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N8UW on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks, W1RFI, for being part of the community's discussion.

AE6IP wrote:
5) It's a hobby. The way you 'work' for it isn't by taking tests, it's by getting on the air and participating.
True today! I got my licence by self study in 2002, and was confused when 2 cousins who are longtimer Extras expresssed great pride that we had 3 of us at the family reunion. They took pictures. I had looked at the licence as a simple entry requirement, like driving. I hope getting a licence isn't the thing folks are most proud of in their radio career! I now know it was a sense of accomplishment in the 20 WPM days, and I recaptured that with the W1AW code proficiency program.

How many of us CW ops are like me, code in the military and electronics in college? I didn't have to work for my licence (other than learning about regulations and modes like moonbounce I'll never use, but still enjoy reading about). The work was already done, for professional reasons.

On a selfish view, 125 kHz for CW doesn't take away any of my hangouts, and I may QSO some new folks. I think CW will continue to thrive. Sure, I'd like the FISTS proposal more, but the FCC isn't going to impliment it. The ARRL did the reasonable thing, and I will continue to support the only organized voice we have with my membership.

Chuck, Vegetarian Ham
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2MG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W1RFI wrote:

> It is just that arrows are the convention on most
> discussion boards, so they are generally well
> understood.

Using arrows is the preferred method as readers can more easily differentiate the responses from the original.

IMO, your posts are highly readable...unlike some.

73 Mike N2MG
webmaster
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
MG and RFI, for the record. I do not mind arrow quoting when it is for Ham Radio issue's.

I have just found RFI arrow quotes more than anybody else!

However when RFI gets into arrow quoting on peoples favorite flavor of ice cream, the philosophic,and good old opinions.....That is where I draw the line.

Of course your both life long ARRL members, so you will back each other up on anything!

73 nothing personal MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by NJ0E on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To KI4BSL:

quote:
---------------------------------------------------
Wow, don't I feel great...took my element 1 and 3 last Saturday. Looks like I could have waited and gotten the "prize" without any work at all. It almost makes you sick; the upper license classes should be attained by hard work, and that includes a CW test even for General class in my opinion. I studied for months for that CW and theory test. Now everyone that has the plain ol' tech license will have the same privilages I do. Thanks ARRL!

I just hope that they are doing what is best for us amateurs, and I hope that maybe I just don't see it at the moment
-------------------------------------.
endquote:

it's not a waste of your efforts at all.

plug in your key, fire up your transceiver, and join
us down in the cw segments of the hf bands for the
most fun that you can have in amateur radio.

no exaggerations from here.

like you, i worked on my cw skills to pass the
radiotelegraph elements because i wanted the mode
and spectrum privileges. but the real prize was
in fact the radiotelegraph proficiency itself.

the others will never know what they're missing.

see you in the cw bands.

73
scott nj0e
99% cw
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I don't see how anyone's ditching the ARRL is going to help amateur radio, unless they have the money and the resources to do more than the ARRL and have the strength in numbers to implement their vision of what amateur radio should be. Sending back a badge or calling the ARRL and cancelling one's membership may send a message, but I don't see how it's gonna help anyone get their way unless they have a better plan in mind and the resources to get it done.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by K3UD on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hello Ed

Glad to see someone using the term "orphan licenses" other than myself :)

The only thing I do not understand about the the ARRL proposal is why all classes of the Technician (Tech+, Tech with code and no code Tech, get grandfathered to the General class while the Novice, and I imagine there are still some who are on the air (I talk to several on 10) gets to initially populate the new Novice class.

I also do not understand why an existing Novice would need to lower their power on 10 meters (unless there will be something like a Novice + class for existing Novices) Anyway you look at it, this is a reduction, albeit small, in privileges that has been already earned.

I would certainly like to see the board ammend its proposal to include all permutations of Tech and the existing Novice class to be put in the New Novice Class. This class has a good amount of new privileges for everyone in the mentioned existing classes. This seems to be the largest concern of those who are posting and I think that this may make the proposal more acceptable to those who have some valid concerns about it.

73
George
K3UD
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KD7KUN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I agree we should never change things from how they were. I've seen that in my profession; people graduating now a day have it way to easy and shouldn't even be considered professional accountants. Why in my day we didn't have computers or calculators, we had to do everything on columnar paper and calculate all our formulas by hand. Yes, those were the days of professional accounting and anyone that uses a computer or calculator shouldn't be allowed to call themselves an accountant...their nothing but lazy good for nothings who got a free ride!

Sounds pretty professionalpretty mature? Doesn't it? I suppose could invoke phrases like most accountants prefer using columnar paper, etc.; without citing scientific surveys to support my argument. That would make my point of view sound even more mature.

I would never make a comment like this to anyone coming out of college nor would I put down any of my colleagues in such a manner. The times have changed, they are no less intelligent than me; they just had the advantage of using better tools than I had available when I was learning the profession. Would I ever require an employee of mine to prove they are capable of doing something that they have no need for (such as calculating out present values, economic order quantities, or fully diluted earnings per share on columnar paper without the use of a calculator)? The answer would be no, it is not efficient and isn't done these days since we have tools that make the job more accurate AND efficient.

As for those who wish to live in the past, please feel free to do so BUT dont belittle others who have met their license requirements in a different way than you. However, if you feel it is your job in life to belittle those who were licensed under different rules than you; please do us all a favor and turn in your licenses; you have proven that you are incapable of following the Amateur Radio Code of Ethics and are unable to contribute positively to the service.

The Radio Amateur is:

CONSIDERATE....never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL.... offers loyalty, encouragement, and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE... with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY... slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interest of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur service.

BALANCED... radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC... station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

-The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2MG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH wrote:
> MG and RFI, for the record. I do not mind arrow
> quoting when it is for Ham Radio issue's.
>
> I have just found RFI arrow quotes more than anybody
> else!
> However when RFI gets into arrow quoting on peoples
> favorite flavor of ice cream, the philosophic,and
> good old opinions.....That is where I draw the line.

Well, when someone wants to address specific issues in a post, the only way to clearly indicating to what each response is referring is to separate and mark the original text. Arrows are highly effective.

> Of course your both life long ARRL members, so you
> will back each other up on anything!
>
> 73 nothing personal MIKE

Hmm, nothing personal? That's definitely a personal statement - it suggests that Ed and I have some kind of behind-the-scenes relationship that causes us to immediately rally to one another's cause without regard to the specific issue at hand.

I know everyone loves a conspiracy, but it still amazes me that folks get ideas like this...

Mike N2MG


 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KI4CRN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds like a good fair approach trying to satisfy a wide variety of feelings on the issue
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
MIKE N2MG, your OK. You do have a good sense of humor!)

Yes, I am big on conspiracies!!!!

Most people like me that have worked in Broadcast News, do become conspiracy junkies!(HI-HI)

Paranoia sometimes, is simply just knowing all the facts!!

73 and have a nice day DE MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K2IY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
So the ARRL supports this proposal, new hams enter the hobby, join ARRL, QST circulation increases, QST Mfr advertising increases etc. Afterall, what new ham is going to purchase a $1000 HF rig plus station accy's if he doesnt't have operating privelages on a spectrum of the HF bands (80, 40, 15, 10)?

Just as BPL is about making money, so is this.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W8MW on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I like everything about the ARRL plan. When the major overhaul called incentive licensing happened in the 60's privileges were taken away from most of us. The message to the average ham who had already been granted full privileges: We decided you are not smart enough, motivated enough, dedicated enough. Jump thru some new hoops and earn back what we took away. Thus was born a pecking order that too many people took way too seriously. Pride in personal accomplishment became blurred with arrogance. Decades after the fact I remain convinced none of that was good for amateur radio.

What I perceive in the ARRL plan is a long overdue correction to poor decisions of the past that divided the amateur community and fueled elitist attitudes. If Techs are grandfathered to General, I am one Extra saying that's great. We need you on HF. We trust you to get up to speed on the regulations and good amateur practice applicable to this spectrum. It won't be that big a leap for most who are already good hams.

I like the proposed inclusion of new operators into mainstream HF frequencies. The thinking of the past was let's put them somewhere they can't do any harm. A foredrawn negative. Finally, a positive approach that recognizes new HF operators will grow faster by being in the game rather than sidelined to a restricted holding area.

Amateur radio in the US is recognized as a component in homeland security. Our ability to provide emergency communications is the most tangible service we offer the public. The ARRL proposal allows the amateur service to deploy all of its available resources when emergency nets are established on 75 and 40 meters. By permitting HF access to every licensed amateur, we will finally be in a position to apply critical mass when needed. This will make the amateur service stronger and more relevant to the public interest. ARRL leadership has set the stage for this to happen. They have my total support.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WD8WV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have been watching these comments on this particular topic. I myself made my two cents worth known. I have discussed this with fellows on the radio, even on 2 Meters. I spoke with a Technician just last night and he agreed with me. He feels that the Technicians should not be grandfathered into Generals. Even though he is a Technician he doesn't like the idea. He thinks that putting the Technician in the proposed Novice class would be the right way to go and to grandfather the old Novices and Tech Plus into Generals. He also feels that the code should be kept at the General level. Now this came from a Tech.

I was think how many Novices would you have if this proposal goes through, NONE. Why just get a little when you can get it all. Testers would come and take the exam for Novice and then General. Forget being a Novice and only have a little portion to talk on, go straight to General and get it all.

This discussion will go on and on for days, right now I printed this discussion so I could read at my leisure and see that it is already over 78 pages long.

A few of my good friends, KD8IO and WW8WV have posted their feelings and I can understand their disgust with the League. It does seem that we are dumbing down the hobby and that the League is always asking for money.

Again this is a hobby and in all hobbies we try to strive for improvement both in ourselves and how we use our hobby. In this hobby one of the improvements is overcoming the obstacles, whether it be code or written exams. Does it make us better operators? Well, in some cases maybe, but it does make us have a better respect for our hobbies and those who have went through the same steps to get there.

Again, I feel the following:

NEW NOVICE: TECHNICIANS AND NEW HAMS

GENERAL: TECH PLUS AND OLD NOVICES AND GENERALS (5 WPM CW REQUIRED)

EXTRA: OLD ADVANCED AND EXTRA

Again this my two cents worth.

I also want to thank Ed, W1RFI for taking the time to come and make his comments and feeling known. I would like to see Jim Hayne post his comments, tell us what he fells and why the League went in this direction.

73
Juddie D. Burgess WD8WV
http://www.qsl.net/wd8wv
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3TVV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I've been a Ham for almost 10 years and have always been happy with the privledges that I got,because I know that I earned them.

Although,everyone will gain some bandwidth from this proposal,My suggestion would be to upgrade the current hams and keep the 5 wpm for the General and Extra class licensees .This way everyone gets something and it would keep some separation between the 3 license classes and prevent clutter on the bands.

I do realize that not everyone is capable of learning code,some people just don't get it.Which is why I Agree with new license class,but,We Need To keep Some Standards in the hobby and Not give into LAZY AMERICA ,because,people are getting lazier,by the day.

IF YOU WANT SOMETHING ENOUGH,YOU WILL WORK HARD AND DO WHAT IT TAKES TO GET IT !!! Yes this includes ham radio.

LET's face it! You'll never please everyone,but,a good compromise using common sense is a good start.

That's my point of view....

Eric T Bott
N3TVV
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB2YYO on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This really is not a bad proposal. I do believe however that current Tech and Tech Plus licensees should be required to take the wriiten element for General. I read in an earlier post that Technicians ( Tech Plus also ) who just passed their written exam almost passed the written exam for General right after completing their test, that means they failed. Each license upgrade introduces more theory and knowledge required to pass the test, it teaches you what this hobby is all about and makes you respect the hobby that much more. Some of this will be taken away. I will welcome them among us however. We need more younger people in Amateur Radio and the proposal the ARRL has put forth I believe will encourage more to join. It's much too easy today to turn on a computer and chat with someone else on the other side of the globe and not even need an antenna. Let's get these people in the hobby first and the entice them to study and learn more. Who doesn't want to learn more about their hobby ? . And for those of you who are discontinuing their membership to ARRL, GOOD, you won't be missed. The ARRL is our main representative for the protection of the radio spectrum we enjoy. I think the ARRL has done a good job, and though I don't completely agree with this proposal it is a step in the right direction. And for those of you who have their Tech or Tech Plus license please study up and upgrade before this goes into affect, you'll be glad you did and learn a little more about your hobby. And for those of you who will wait it out and have the license handed to you, that's ashame but welcome anyway. 73

Mark
WA2MO
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AD6WL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
A survey on this subject is being conducted at Yahoo Groups. You do have to be a member to participate, but anyone can join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QRS-CW/surveys?id=11602651
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by D0RK on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This just in!!! ARRL's newest publication "CB Lingo Made Easy".
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG4TZY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey, I got a win-win proposal. Since us no-code techs don't know morse, you all can simply go to the CW subbands and use your beloved CW. Wow, you get to use your hard earned skill and don't have to talk to a single no-coder.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N4LI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Overall, this isn’t a bad proposal. There are strengths and weaknesses to it, but I am of the opinion that there is no “correct” plan out there.

As a bedrock rule, we must realize that there is nothing mystical about HF; it’s just another part of the spectrum. We allow entry-level operators on VHF, why not HF? Sure, the possibilities for QRM by an unqualified operator go nationwide, but arguably, VHF QRM is just as concerning, if not more. After all, emergency communications would most likely be above 50 MHz, where the No-Coders currently live.

While many are concerned about the CB-izing of the bands, I find that argument hollow. After all, the current Tech test is well within the grasp of anyone; 2m hasn’t become the wasteland that many had feared. And, as has been argued, what if Husband and wife want to use their 2m radios to coordinate trips to the grocery or soccer logistics? Great! As long as they operate properly and legally, they are more than welcome on our repeater.

My main concern is the auto-upgrade of current Techs. I have taken both tests, and I must say the General test was much tougher than the Tech. Heck, I missed a question on the General! One could certainly argue cogently that the Tech test as it sits does not provide the background that may be needed to operate full-legal limit on the worldwide bands.

As far as rolling the Advanced Class guys into Extra? Great. That is fair. And, I applaud the continuation of CW testing for Extra. This level of license should require some effort. It is, after all, “Extra,” right?

But, whether the FCC will agree to even keep Element 1 for Extras is questionable. The Commission really wants to get out of the Code business. So, what Mikey and his partners will do is anyone’s guess.

The ARRL has taken a pragmatic track here – trying to satisfy as many of their constituents as possible. I am not sure they have succeeded. But, we all must realize, change is coming; we should embrace it.

Peter, N4LI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KF9Z on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Why do we care what the other countries are doing? When do we base what America does with its own sovereignty on what other parts of the world choose to do? That is the problem with America. We tend to place far more weight on what other countries do/did. WHO CARES! I want code retained for HF access. Why do I care what 31 other countries are doing? Last time I checked they are not AMERICA!

Geesh...get real. If you must remove the HF code requirement I would expect the ARRL/FCC to require a much harder written test. Why do we continue to give things away with little or no work? Beats me. My kids are not brought up in an environment where you get what you want provided you bitch long enough.

And for the ARRL circulation desk...I would cancel my sub now if I would be given a refund for the unused QST copies I will not receive. The ARRL has not done for me what I paid them to do. They roll over for the big radio manufactures and take one in the can for all the no-code technicians who now get GENERAL privileges. Please. This indeed is a sad day for our once proud hobby.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Right on ARRL. Good proposal. Free ride ham radio licensing. Oh, BTW ARRL can I get a free engineering degree from M.I.T.
 
ARRL Proposes dumbing down amateur radio  
by W9WHE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The ARRL will refund your money.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W1RFI writes:

"If your local electric utility decides it wants to try BPL, can we tell them that they can't do it in your town, except on your street"

I wasn't aware that was the ARRL's decision, but I may be confused. In any event, sure Ed, go ahead, green light them. At this point, why not?

What's the difference between QRM from BPL and QRM from a Super-power-overdrive em, MK-III delux power microphone driving a roger-beep reverb box into a Copper Electronics super-splatter 1KW amp?

After all, rumor has it that the next ARRL proposal will be to grandfather in all 11 meter ops to 20 meters.



 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KA0ABC You want a EE degree from MIT!

Well if the ARRL can sell us out, I am selling copies
of my degrees.

You must be a lic. Ham to be able to purchase one of 3 degree's I have. OK The masters will not be granted till this May!

1)EE not from MIT $39
2)BME-Bio-medical engineer-$39
3)MSBME-Masters Bio-medical engineer-$39

I think the price is the same as a QST?

Just kidding, your remark was so funny and on the money. The Gimmi generation ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ARRL Proposes dumbing down ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Actually, now that the ARRL has betrayed us, what we need to do is file negative comments with the FCC, just as was done for BPL. Be frank and articulate. Cite the 11 meter disaster. Explain how 11 meters is useless because of the lack of standards and how dumbing down Amateur radio will have similar results. Above all, be rational and provide explanations. Encourage your friends to do the same. Discuss the need to file negative comments on the air. Repeatedly. E mail and write your congressman.

You know that NCI will be getting out the support, so we must show how this is bad for Amateur radio and even homeland security.



 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA3RFE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What everyone is forgetting is that ARRL's proposal is only one of many submitted to the FCC for consideration. I do not recall how many there are, but I believe it is a dozen of them.

And another thing is that the FCC is going to do what the FCC wants to do with this codeless HF issue. The ARRL certainly doesn't tell the FCC how to run it's agency and the proposal is simply that: a PROPOSAL!

73, Pete KA3RFE
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Remember...The ARRL does this all for YOU :-)

Perhaps (some) of the Advanced and NCT's like this plan but for most existing General class Op's,the proposal is a slap in the face! No additional Theory?

The ARRL is so caught up in this BPL SCARE they have lost touch with most of the Ham population! Most of us knew from the start that BPL would never see wide scale use in the USA. It is a poor investment just like this new ARRL proposal is a poor investment in our future. While it may bring more people to HF (as if we need more people on HF)what price do we pay if this proposal is adopted? W8VOM
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down ham radio  
by KG4YJR on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>what we need to do is file negative comments with the FCC<<

Right...I'm sure with all the "nice" things most of you have been saying about them lately, especially Kathleen Abernathy, I'm sure your comments will get the rightful attention that they deserve.

Get another one of those famous "form letters" going on the Internet again.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0RGR on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA2MO - yes, the new Techs who had not studied for the Element 3 exam did fail, by not more than 3 questions, each. At least one of these questions was about the General band edges, which doesn't even belong on a decent test. So, for the other two questions, which probably involved full-wave bridge rectifiers, this is not worth arguing over. For most of its existence, the written exam for Tech was the same as that for General. I screamed loudly when they split it in two - this was done so Techs could avoid learning the General band edges. Instead, they got stuck having to memorize all the VHF/UHF/lower microwave, plus Novice band edges - all information that doesn't really belong on a test of one's technical competence.

Much ado about nothing - just another excuse to complain because somebody somewhere might get a small 'freebie'. Life is much too short for this, and if it causes you to cancel your League membership, that is harming ham radio, not helping it. Take your marbles and go home.

Now, I will inject another controversy, however. Should the new Novices have distinctive callsigns like we all did 40 years ago? I think it would be a great idea. That way, new Novices can avoid higher class curmudgeons on the air by only calling other Novices, if they choose to do so. They will know they're talking to another newbie.

This can be done very simply by having FCC add a footnote to the table of callsigns, to the effect that Novices must add the letter "N" to their callsign prefix. So, KC2XYZ becomes KCN2XYZ. Again, just like the original Novice where WN6XYZ became W6XYZ after upgrading to Tech or General.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4DXL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
VK Going No-code on 1 January, 2004
Finland Drops Morse Testing November 1, 2003
Papua New Guinea latest to drop Morse requirement (excerpted from The ARRL Letter)
Luxembourg Grants CEPT Class 2 Licensees HF Privileges, Effective Sept. 18, 2003
Singapore Removes Requirement for Morse Code Examination for General Class Licence (From the website of the Singapore Amateur Radio Transmitting Society (SARTS))
RAC Survey Shows 2/3 of Canadian Hams Want Morse Requirement Dropped

That pretty much says it all.

CHANGES!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4TVL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Boycott the ARRL? Hell, I've been boycotting the ARRL since their 1969 Incentive Licenseing screw up.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4TVL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Boycott the ARRL? Hell, I've been boycotting the ARRL since their 1966 Incentive Licenseing screw up.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N8ZC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think that ARRL is just doing what they want to do without concideration of what their members want or think.

If 'Amateur Radio' needs a shot in the arm to stay healthy and alive, then do so by not giving away the farm.

By giving so many privileges to an 'entry class license' and to just let exsisting 'Technician and Tech Plus' licenses just start using the 'General class' bands is just asking for trouble.

OK fine... the 'No Code' issue isn't going away. So, why not give the "new" novice class the same privigleges as the former 'Novice Class' and let them work on 6m, 2m and 70cm. And learn about RF safety as well.

Then for all the 'Technician and Tech Plus' licenses holders, have them take a writen exam restructured to reflect some kind of 'know how' in radio, without a code exam.

People tend to not respect things in life that are just given to them. So let them earn the privledge of "Amateur Radio".

Well that is my opion on the subject.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To all those who think all CHANGE is good.

1)Do you like the CHANGE in health care insurence!
2)Do you like the CHANGE in medical treatment.
A GP check up used to last an hour, today it is 15
minutes!

3)Bet all of ya love the CHANGE in customer care!
Bet you love being on hold for hours!
Bet you all love how RADIO SHACK changed!

4)The Taliban wants to CHANGE the U.S.A!


So, cha-cha-cha-changes!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3LJS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Let the ARRL members vote on it, then send in to the FCC.
More hams buys more radio's and that's more members for the ARRL. We need another voice in Washington.......

Rob
 
Current Techs and Tech plus should take General Wr  
by N5QDY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hello--

I'm getting over being shocked.

I can handle most of the proposal. The one thing I'm *totally* against is grandfathering in the current Techs and Tech plus class into General. I think these people should at least take the General written exam. The exam is a breeze, but there are some very important concepts that need to be learned from the study material. HF is infinitely more complicated than VHF/UHF operation. I've been a General since July, and I have really had to work to be a good operator on HF. This would not have been possible if I had not had some grounding gleaned from preparing for the General written exam.

Again: ****Current Techs and Tech Plus' should have to take the General Class Written exam.****

I think this is one area where some negotiation would be successful and prudent.

Current Techs and Tech Plus': Are you up to the challenge of the General Written? :)

Scott
N5QDY
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3LJS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Look down the road, say 10 years. FCC says to the ARRL.
No one is using the CW portion of the bands. So guess what we are going to do. If you don't use them you are going to lose them!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG5JJ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Threatening to cancel ARRL membership is not the answer. They are worth supporting despite
what you feel about the proposal.

I think it commendable that they are in favor of keeping the 5 wpm for extra, even though anyone
should be able to pass that with a little effort. The FCC is leaning toward removing it altogether.
Would that really surprise anyone?

The ARRL is just as frustrated as hams are about having to tap-dance to all segments of
amateur radio, and not step on anyone's toes. Everyone cannot be satisfied.

It seems the "big worry" is that Amateur Radio will self-destruct because of all this.

I'd like to quote Will Rogers (at least, I think it was Will Rogers):

"It's amazing how long we've been going to hell in a handbasket, without actually getting
there".

Lighten-up. Keep your ARRL membership, or join if you're not a member.

73 KG5JJ (Mike)
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N8HDJ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What are they trying to do with our hobby??
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down ham radio  
by KC7MM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
My sincere thanks to AE6IP and W1RFI for their positive attitude and comments.

Most of the important decisions in life require some form of compromise. The proposal the ARRL has come up with is full of compromise, and I will support it 100%.

I am amazed that some of my fellow hams believe that the ARRL makes its decisions only to increase its income. Most people working for the ARRL do so as volunteers. They don't get a salary. Those who are salaried are paid a pittance of what they are worth, considering their professional experience and educations. I am lead to believe much of their devotion to amateur radio is based on their love for it, not for personal gain. And as far as I know, the ARRL doesn't sell shares, so there are no stockholders to receive any dividends and thus benefit from the supposed fortune rolling into Newington's coffers.

I doubt that any major electronics corporation is getting rich on its miniscule amateur radio division. In fact, the opposite is probably true. Ham radio for them is a money pit. So until someone can show me verifiable proof that there is a plot to increase cash flow to industry and the ARRL, I will lump the naysayers in the same group as the alien invasion theorists (crackpots).

I suggest we all get behind the ARRL and support its license restructuring proposal proposal.

Dale KC7MM
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CWTITAN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
hey, who wants to be in a club with split tails like kq6xa??? I sure don't. she is a example of the "new ham", and we all know what that is....no work, no work, no work, just gimmie gimmie gimmie some more welfare.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down ham radio  
by K2IY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
So let's see; with the new Novice entry class license, you can purchase any Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu etc hf/vhf/uhf transceiver and operate it on any phone band Except 160, 20 or WARC bands.

More hams = More potential xcvr sales = More QST ads = More ARRL revenue. Get it folks.....It's the money stupid.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K7VO on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CWTitan, what does "split tails" mean? Why the attack on Bonnie in particular and nobody else (including me) who support the ARRL position?

Last I heard Bonnie was an RF Engineer with more knowledge and technical expertise than 99% of the male ham population. She could pass any test you could throw at her.

I am not a new ham by any stretch and I support the ARRL proposal. Oh, and read my previous post: I came through the old (as in before no code) licensing sysem. Based on what I've seen on this forum the standards of amateur radio can't possibly be hurt by this proposal. Some of you are already as low as you can go.

-Cait
K7VO
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a "new" ham (licensed just > 1 yr.) and I surely don't want anything "given" to me that I didn't work for. Don't paint all of us with one broad brushstroke of your unflattering opinion.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4FFG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CWTITAN:
"hey, who wants to be in a club with split tails like kq6xa??? I sure don't. she is a example of the "new ham", and we all know what that is....no work, no work, no work, just gimmie gimmie gimmie some more welfare"

Split tails?!?!?

Dude, you need to get with the times. I may swear like an ex-sailor (which I am) but that comment is totally inappropriate. But, what else should we expect from a person who hides behind an anonymous name.

As far as her work ethic, who the hell are you to pass judgment? She does, after all, hold an Advanced license. Which, by everyone's agreement, is a worthy accomplishment.

In my opinion, you are an ass.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To some the ARRL is a RELIGION ! If that be the case,I am Proud to be counted among the Heretics.
Many ARRL members defend thier "Religion" right or wrong and that is the *real* danger. W8VOM
 
RE: Current Techs and Tech plus should take Genera  
by W2DUG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> The one thing I'm *totally* against is
> grandfathering in the current Techs and Tech plus
> class into General. I think these people should at
> least take the General written exam. The exam is a
> breeze, but there are some very important concepts
> that need to be learned from the study material. HF
> is infinitely more complicated than VHF/UHF
> operation. I've been a General since July, and I
> have really had to work to be a good operator on HF.
> This would not have been possible if I had not had
> some grounding gleaned from preparing for the
> General written exam.

> Again: ****Current Techs and Tech Plus' should have to take the General Class Written exam.****

> I think this is one area where some negotiation would be successful and prudent.

> Current Techs and Tech Plus': Are you up to the challenge of the General Written? :)

-----------

I figured the most likely scenario following the WRC-03 changes was that the CW requirement would be dropped, but the written testing would remain as it is. To me, that makes the most sense because it establishes the understanding of some of the regulatory and technical issues introduced by HF applications. I was surprised when I read the ARRL's proposal for the "instant upgrade", but I would certainly not argue against it, especially since I have already passed the General written (however I did not take the code test within the required year following the written exam).

But it also occurs to me that, like some of the policy changes Bush is currently pushing, the proposal itself--regardless of whether or not it is actually passed--is the part that provides all the necessary political leverage...in this case, I would wager that the ARRL feels the potential gain in "auto-Generals" (hence potential gain in membership) outweighs the potential loss of curmudgeons, and it would be, after all--at least from their standpoint--to the benefit of the hobby. In Bush's case, his suggestions supporting immigrants are designed to get the immigrant vote even if Congress does not pass the resolutions. Likewise, I believe the ARRL's stance is designed to "get the Technician vote", if you will, even if the FCC denies the proposal.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CWTITAN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
w4ffg, what can I say??? sometimes truth hurts. I am from MO. and a retired Navy Chief. and I love being an ass.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"Split tails"... yecch! I actually had to look that one up to find out what it meant. Apparently I hang out with a much better class of person than CWTITAN does. Do you hate women, CWTITAN? Sure sounds like it to me!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W9JCM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I can't believe that I just re joined the ARRL. I want my money back. Why in the hell should techs and tech plus class guys get a FREE upgrade to general privs? This is lunacris, oh yes lets keep the same written test for extra but make them take 5wpm to get it? Are these guys on crack? My biggest beef isnt the code I figure eventually they will change that. ( I am a real 13wpm general) But its the free upgrade for techs to get all gen. privs without even testing that is B.S. They should have to atleast take a written exam. Everyone else did. And the Novice should have only qrp power out on HF not 100 watts. It wont pass anyway from the word I hear they read this and had a good chuckle at it back east. I hear all the lazy people on repeaters cheering this proposal. HA, guess what its not going to happen this way.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WA1RKA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have a question for the Legal Minds out there,which in light of this recent proposal may be appropriate to ask at this time.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the CW testing requirement a part of International Law or a Treaty of some kind? If so wouldnt it take an act of Congress to change that part of the licensing system. As I recall from 8th grade civics(which was many years ago) only Congress can change a Treaty or Internationl Regulation that the U.S is a signatory to?

73
John
Wa1rka



 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ya know....I am going to join the ARRL!
WHY YOU ASK?

Simple, just so I can have the satisfaction of leaving the ARRL after 1 month!

Then I can call the ARRL. I can then curse them out worse than a DRUNKIN SAILER on the FOURTH of JULY!

Get my Money back. I can finally say hey....I am an ARRL member doing this!

73 and laughs DE MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W2DUG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the CW testing
> requirement a part of International Law or a Treaty
> of some kind? If so wouldnt it take an act of
> Congress to change that part of the licensing
> system.

Actually, it took an act of the World Radio Conference in the summer of 2003 (WRC-03) to remove the international treaty requirement for CW proficiency on HF, and to leave it up to each country to determine their own testing requirements. Where have you been the last 6 months?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3FHW on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well Folks,
It looks to me like the ARRL has gazed into their crystal ball and figured out the FCC is planning to delete the code requirement for all Amateur classes and this compromise proposal is the ARRL's effort to salvage some portions of the bands for the Extra folks that want the code testing to continue. The ARRL is giving up too much in this proposal for it to be fight. Does it look like the ARRL is trying to hold on to it's members by "buttering both sides of the bread"?
This proposal, if adopted by the FCC, could increase the ARRL's membership by appealing to both the code and no-code factions of our hobby. It could also increase the Amateur ranks.
Let's back up a little bit and say this ARRL proposal is not adopted and the FCC deletes the code requirement for all Amateur classes. Then the ARRL would be rendered mute in it's efforts to salvage some code segments of our bands and it's a good chance the ARRL membership would dwindle while the Amateur ranks would still increase. It's a win-lose situation for ARRL membership and a win-win situation for Amateur Radio membership.
Do you think Dollars are playing any role in this effort by the ARRL?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W1RFI on January 21, 2004:
"> That's why the ARRL sold us down the river. It's all about membership and money.

Those that made the decisions don't get to keep any of the money, so I am not sure how you can justify that one.

In what way were you sold down the river? What privileges will this take away from you? I will be able to to continue to do whatever I have been doing in ham radio. Will not you? The difference is that instead of seeing a continuing gradual decline in on-the-air activities in ham radio, we might see some fresh enthusiasm.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI"

Ed, does it have to take away privileges from me to make me upset over this proposal? The attitude of "it doesn't take away anything from me, so I don't care" is a very selfish attitude to take. This proposal is a slap in the face to anyone who took a code test, especially those who currently are Generals, and worked to get where they are. In a way, it DOES take something away from me. I had to EARN my privileges. I had no free rides. I never wanted any free rides. When I upgraded from Technician to General, I had to take a code test and a written test for General. Now, I see it's OK to just hand those privileges to those who didn't work for them! Fine business, there Ed. Because I had to take a code test for General, I feel that I did more work to obtain my General than I did to obtain my Extra with no further code test.

I came to this hobby through CB. I got into CB in 1977. I remember what things were like on 11 meters during cycle 21. Mostly during 1979-1982, noise levels on all channels were 40/s9 - even on SSB. Granting a free upgrade to General to the masses of codeless Techs will result in the same mayhem on the HF amateur bands. The first thing that came to mind when I read the ARRL's proposal was the solid 40/s9 noise levels on 11m during cycle 21. It wasn't much better during cycle 22. Even if these Techs keep their operations clean, when it comes to worldwide propagation, massive QRM cannot be helped. This will create immediate overcrowding on the HF bands. It will get worse as the hordes of CBers and freebanders decide to go "legal" and get their cheapo General toilet paper licenses. Opening the floodgates will create multi-band CB. All of HF (amateur bands) will resemble 11 meters. The ARRL doesn't understand this. It wouldn't matter how much I try to convince them of this either. They have their mindset. Sometimes, it takes looking at something from a different perspective. Those who came from CB see things a bit differently than those who never experienced CB. It is said that history doesn't often follow the path of common sense. Well, common sense is seriously lacking in Newington.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA1RKA:

Yes, the telegraphy requirement came from the International Radio Rules which the US has a treaty obligation to follow. Under the treaty, those Rules are set by the ITU. The ITU has now dropped the requirement for telegraphy testing. Individual nations are now free to test or not test as they see fit.

If the FCC determines determines that it is in the public interest to drop telegraphy testing, they may. The Congress would only get involved if they wanted to pass a law mandating that the FCC keep or drop the requirement.

73 de W3JJH
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WI4NDS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Additional Comments:

When the No-Code Tech was passed and folks started coming on 2 Meter around Central Ohio, I heard a number of incidents where they were treated very harshly and/or flat ignored when they tried to join a conversation. They were also harrassed when some of them were having a QSO among themselves repeatedly. The people misbehaving were licensed Extras, Advanceds, and Generals who had there tickets a long while and had written against the proposal. A number of these No-Code Techs have not been heard on the air since. Is it any wonder!
I pray we do not have another situation like this should this proposal go through. These people brag about being superior to CBers, then turn around and act like snobbish trash. There was no purpose in trashing 11 Meter ops and certainly there was no place for their behavior anywhere, much less on the air.
For those who want their own special club for those they consider "The Elite", please take it off the air.
Amateur Radio is a diverse community and if you do not wish to be among a diverse community and treat people fairly, then silence would be appreciated and appropriate. You do not have to like change, but that is no excuse for such inappropriate behavior as harrasing those you consider "inferior to yourself".
Also, please familiarize yourself with Part 95. Deliberate interference is a violation which can result in fines and the revocation of your license. The Amateur Community must do its best to catch these people and see to it that they are brought to justice from here on out.
From what I have seen over the past almost 16 years licensed, hams can quite often be their own worst enemies and detrimental to the future of Amateur Radio.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W3JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>Granting a free upgrade to General to the masses of codeless
>Techs will result in the same mayhem on the HF amateur bands.

Why are so many folks making statements like this offered with no proof?

Let have a show of hands. How many of us were first licensed as No-Code Techs? OK, now, those of us who have upgraded, keep your hands up. The rest of you can relax.

Of those of us who have passed a telegraphy test, how many were lids before they learned the Morse code but became polite, efficient operators because they learned Morse code?

Why is no one's hand still raised?
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WW3S on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free Reply
by N3TTN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Quote: "Suppose you have worked for the same company for 20 years. You earned a college degree. Went to some continuing education courses. Learned the ropes of the firm, and now make a decent salary. Just yesterday your firm brings in a new employee. He is a high school graduate, with no college experience. No work experience in your area either. He starts out at the same salary you are now making.

How would you feel? Cheated? Like this is somehow unfair? Why? His salary in no way affects your salary? It doesn't affect any of your accomplishments.

But be honest-how would you feel? Would you be happy for him? Welcome him with open arms?

Happens in the nursing field all the time....new RN's just out of school are not only being paid the same, they are getting their student loans paid off...
If you are lucky and don't mind working weekends, you can take 2 12 hr shifts on Sat/Sun and get paid for 40hrs....
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WI4NDS wrote: "I pray we do not have another situation like this should this proposal go through. These people brag about being superior to CBers, then turn around and act like snobbish trash."

I've known people like this. Seems they are so lacking in self-esteem that they have to effectuate some by putting others down. My mom used to tell me that we cannot raise ourselves up more than a few inches by walking on the backs of others.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N3TTN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WW3S wrote: "ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free Reply
by N3TTN on January 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Quote: "Suppose you have worked for the same company for 20 years. You earned a college degree. Went to some continuing education courses. Learned the ropes of the firm, and now make a decent salary. Just yesterday your firm brings in a new employee. He is a high school graduate, with no college experience. No work experience in your area either. He starts out at the same salary you are now making.

How would you feel? Cheated? Like this is somehow unfair? Why? His salary in no way affects your salary? It doesn't affect any of your accomplishments.

But be honest-how would you feel? Would you be happy for him? Welcome him with open arms?

Happens in the nursing field all the time....new RN's just out of school are not only being paid the same, they are getting their student loans paid off...
If you are lucky and don't mind working weekends, you can take 2 12 hr shifts on Sat/Sun and get paid for 40hrs.... "



James, I think you had better go back and read the entire post, you are quoting the guy I quoted (NE0P), and somehow I don't think he would appreciate you attributing his comments to me. Just thought you should know.

73, N3TTN
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by WI4NDS on January 21, 2004:
"When the No-Code Tech was passed and folks started coming on 2 Meter around Central Ohio, I heard a number of incidents where they were treated very harshly and/or flat ignored when they tried to join a conversation. They were also harrassed when some of them were having a QSO among themselves repeatedly. The people misbehaving were licensed Extras, Advanceds, and Generals who had there tickets a long while and had written against the proposal. A number of these No-Code Techs have not been heard on the air since. Is it any wonder!
I pray we do not have another situation like this should this proposal go through. These people brag about being superior to CBers, then turn around and act like snobbish trash. There was no purpose in trashing 11 Meter ops and certainly there was no place for their behavior anywhere, much less on the air.
For those who want their own special club for those they consider "The Elite", please take it off the air.
Amateur Radio is a diverse community and if you do not wish to be among a diverse community and treat people fairly, then silence would be appreciated and appropriate. You do not have to like change, but that is no excuse for such inappropriate behavior as harrasing those you consider "inferior to yourself".
Also, please familiarize yourself with Part 95. Deliberate interference is a violation which can result in fines and the revocation of your license. The Amateur Community must do its best to catch these people and see to it that they are brought to justice from here on out.
From what I have seen over the past almost 16 years licensed, hams can quite often be their own worst enemies and detrimental to the future of Amateur Radio."

Please familiarize yourself with Part 95? I think you mean Part 97. Everything you said is a sad part of the history of ham radio. Such behavior should be condemned, not condoned. I wish to make a public statement regarding this issue. No matter what the ultimate outcome of the code issue is, I will never intentionally interfere with any station and I will never attempt to drive any legitimate station off of any frequency. By legitimate, I mean any station legally authorized to operate by the FCC or any other country's equivalent agency. If I do not wish to speak with a particular ham, that's what the big knob in the center of my radio is for. Just sign and spin! I have always adhered to Part 97 and will continue to do so. I don't have to like everybody, but I will give any ham the same courtesy that I expect. Civil behavior must rule on the bands. The radio is not the Internet.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Right on ARRL. Good proposal. Free-ride ham radio licensing. Oh, BTW ARRL can I get a free engineering degree from M.I.T.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD6TQE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To all potential Hams:
If you are interested in this fine hobby,ask a ham to let you listen on the bands for awhile. Ask as many questions as you like.This is how you will get a realistic feeling for ham radio.
Trust me, the posts out here are NOT representative of the ham radio community at large.
Remember, it is a hobby for personel enjoyment.
It is not a Religion
It is not a political idealogy
It is not life or death drama.
It is what YOU make of it.
I speak for many when I say I have FUN!
See ya on the bands.
Glenn
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I shouldn't have to pay for ARRL membership. I demand free QST!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM,hmmmmmmmmm. The ARRL is a religion to some is what you said.

Your very close.

My take: Some of them have the same attitude as Scientologist, 12 step Groups, EST,and other psuedo-cults.

Bottom line: THEY WILL NEVER SAY THEY WERE WRONG!

TOTAL UNMITIGATED BLIND OBEDIENCE

THEY PUT DOWN THE NON BELIVERS
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004:
"W8VOM,hmmmmmmmmm. The ARRL is a religion to some is what you said.

Your very close.

My take: Some of them have the same attitude as Scientologist, 12 step Groups, EST,and other psuedo-cults.

Bottom line: THEY WILL NEVER SAY THEY WERE WRONG!

TOTAL UNMITIGATED BLIND OBEDIENCE

THEY PUT DOWN THE NON BELIVERS"

Who is their messiah? AE6IP?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ, NO.

Their Messiah is the NEWINGTON CON old boy network.

MR ultra arrow quoter is their wanna be sergent
of arms.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
LOL!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4PA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I gotta admit that the thought of unleashing thousands of brand-new 100 watt no-code HFers onto the top end of 75m SSB makes me chuckle a little.

Is this a great hobby or what?

Scott W4PA
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K7IHC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I've been thinking about joining the ARRL for quite awhile. Now, after this licensing proposal, I believe I will join. Fighting BPL implementation is a very good reason to join...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by K7IHC on January 21, 2004:
"I've been thinking about joining the ARRL for quite awhile. Now, after this licensing proposal, I believe I will join. Fighting BPL implementation is a very good reason to join..."

Don't worry about BPL and don't buy into everything the ARRL is telling you. Between FEMA, NTIA and the cellular providers, there won't be any BPL - at least not on HF, VHF or UHF. We may see Wi-Fi on 5 GHz that won't hurt anybody, but we won't see the HF crap that's on the drawing board today.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W2DUG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>This proposal is a slap in the face to anyone who took a code test,
>especially those who currently are Generals, and worked to get where they are.
>In a way, it DOES take something away from me. I had to EARN my privileges.

-------

I just don't get this line of reasoning. If you worked for and earned your privileges, you have the skills and have probably used them and enjoyed them plenty. You have benefitted from your work.

Many "instant Generals" won't have these skills. The name of the license class can't give them the experience, it can only enable them to do the same work you did to build the skills. They will find that ultimately the work is necessary to be an effective operator that other operators will want to interact with. They will learn that CW is necessary to do the really interesting weak signal work or they will learn how to design or tweak their antennas when they aren't getting the desired results. My limited experience with ham radio has shown me just how self-actualizing the hobby really is...if you want to get something out of it, you have to figure it out and do it. That's probably the best part about it.

Test-free upgrades to General class simply won't make as big a difference as you are predicting; the upgrades are more likely to stimulate more advanced operators, if anything.

You should be proud of your accomplishments and worry less about what other people are getting--because you already have it! If someone else gets it with less work, it will only be worth less to THEM, not you. And now you are in a position to work with them, if you choose, to make sure they gain the appropriate knowledge and experience, and they are in a position to practice what they learn.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
1. Getting a ham ticket should be difficult. (See item 3 below). 2. There is recreational radio with no test and no code, it's at 26 to 28 mhz (and now spilling over to 29 mhz) "freeband".

3. I suggest to anyone that's pushing for relaxation of the existing lame requirements take a listen to the freeband. If you like what you hear, just "open up" your rig and start operating there today.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WS4Y on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To Ed, W1RFI
I commend you for taking part in this discussion.
No one could accuse you of not being responsive.
For quite sometime now I have made my views known
to our SE Director, Frank Butler, W4RH. He too
is responsive and willing to discuss issues. On
a personal basis I like Frank and I bet I would like
you too. However, on another level we do not see
eye to eye on this issue. My feelings and views
really have little to do with what impact this will
have on me but rather what I think the impact will
be on amateur radio going into the future. Prior
to WRC-2003 two ham clubs that I belong to voted
on the cw issue. The result is that majority of
members favored retaining cw testing for HF world
wide and the results were given to Frank. However,
our views did not prevail and the Board voted not
to oppose the initiative to let each country decide
the cw requirement. More recently, our local club
voted on this issue with Frank present with the
results being to support cw testing for access to
HF frequencies. After reading the current ARRL
proposal I see these efforts had no impact. I have
also seen the results of an internet poll taken by
a Georgia club that required your member id to vote
that favored retaining cw testing for HF access.
What I think is that most ARRL members would not
support this proposal if given a chance to vote on
it. As important as this issue is why would the
ARRL not be willing to send out ballots on the issue?
I beleive the reason is that the Executive Committee
fears the results would not support their position.
I would certainly accept the position of the majority
and move on. The way it is now many members will
feel betrayed. As for me, I will retain my membership
in the ARRL but I will file comments in opposition
with the FCC when it is filed and comments are invited.
I will seek to support a Board of Director canidate
that will support a majority of his area members rather
than rubber stamping everything the Executive Board puts forth. I have and will continue to make my
best effort to preserve something I value. Now my
question for you ED. When can I expect a ballot
from the ARRL in my mailbox so that I can vote on this
issue?
73, Bill WS4Y
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Don't worry about BPL and don't buy into everything
> the ARRL is telling you. Between FEMA, NTIA and the
> cellular providers, there won't be any BPL - at
> least not on HF, VHF or UHF. We may see Wi-Fi on 5
> GHz that won't hurt anybody, but we won't see the HF
> crap that's on the drawing board today.

First, amateur radio played a role in getting information on the table that raised the concerns of groups like FEMA and NTIA. Don't discount that role.

There is indeed a growing awareness of the interference issue, but the HF that you say we won't see is being installed in Manassas, VA as we speak and is expected to be on line by the end of the week, according to the last reports I received.

The hams in Raleigh, NC are working with Progress Energy on a pending installation there and a more recent trial was recently announced for Cottonwood, AZ.

The other word is that the FCC is moving toward a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking early this year, so there is still a lot of work to be done. You may be right that it will utimately collapse of its own weight, but I am not willing to set back and do nothing and hope that it will, so I am doing everything I can, with ARRL and personally, to help.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I will say it AGAIN...To some the ARRL is a RELIGION ! If that be the case,I am Proud to be counted among the Heretics.

Many ARRL members defend thier "Religion" Right or Wrong and that is the REAL danger. These Devout ARRL worshipers kneel at the ARRL logo and Qst is their BIBLE...Hey folks...you know darn well what I say is TRUE!...It's time that they hear from the 80% who are not of their Religion..W8VOM
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gee whiz....I guess we should give EVERYBODY full phone priveleges, A MK-V (loaded with filters of course), an Alpha 87 AND a 60 foot tower!

WHY do people think they should get everything for NOTHING?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> This proposal is a slap in the face to anyone who
> took a code test, especially those who currently
> are Generals, and worked to get where they are.

Let me ask you this; if the FCC passed a requirement that new hams had to pass a 60 wpm code test, would you feel honored by what they have to do? If not, why are you dishonored by any changes that the FCC may make in the other direction.

I too, worked a bit to get my license, and am proud of the accomplishment, but I worked a lot harder at what I have done afterwards with it, and I consider that to be the real part of "where I am" today in amateur radio. Nothing the FCC could do with testing will change that.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KA4KOE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Since it looks like this is going to pass, lets propose a new name for the entry level class....

Freebander Class
No Class
Just Say No Class
Recessed Class
Just Say Hell No Class
Pass Class
Passgas Class
Communicator's Basic (CB) Class

Lets come up with some more. Its 5, I'm tired and not all that creative right now.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> I have just found RFI arrow quotes more than anybody
> else!

It is years of experience posting on the various newsgroups. Not trimming your post and indicating exactly what you are responding too is considered to be poor "operating" practice on most boards. The QRZ.com board autoquote for you in a way that is prettier than my having to manually cut and paste and insert the traditional arrows, but the effect is the same.

> However when RFI gets into arrow quoting on peoples
> favorite flavor of ice cream, the philosophic,and
> good old opinions.....That is where I draw the line.

Why? If I offer a comment on any part of one's post, then quoting what has led me to offer my views helps people to understand them better. You truly seemed obsessed on this one. I wonder if you can explain why... no, on second thought, maybe we are better off if you don't. :-)

> Of course your both life long ARRL members, so you
> will back each other up on anything!

I am not a life-long ARRL member at all. Before I came here in 1986, I had never been a League member. Now that I have had an opportunity to see up close and personal what the League does for amateur radio, at this point in my life I cannot imagine not being a League member. But I still sign up a few years at a time so I can make that decision on an ongoing basis.

And, btw, the ARRL bylaws don't contain a requirement that ARRL members back each other up, so if you join, you can still tell me that I am full of hooey. And I won't get mad if you use arrows to quote this when you do!

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W1RFI on January 21, 2004:
"First, amateur radio played a role in getting information on the table that raised the concerns of groups like FEMA and NTIA. Don't discount that role.

There is indeed a growing awareness of the interference issue, but the HF that you say we won't see is being installed in Manassas, VA as we speak and is expected to be on line by the end of the week, according to the last reports I received.

The hams in Raleigh, NC are working with Progress Energy on a pending installation there and a more recent trial was recently announced for Cottonwood, AZ.

The other word is that the FCC is moving toward a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking early this year, so there is still a lot of work to be done. You may be right that it will utimately collapse of its own weight, but I am not willing to set back and do nothing and hope that it will, so I am doing everything I can, with ARRL and personally, to help."

Manassas won't last. None of it will. Yes, I do believe BPL will collapse under its own weight. It causes far too much damage to users of HF and VHF spectrum. BPL is an obsolete technology that will not get off the ground. If it does, it won't be around for long. 802.11 is the future in broadband. Look for companies like Cingular Wireless to make it available to the masses, not the power companies. After all, what's better? To be able to plug into an AC outlet for broadband Internet, or completely wireless from a cell tower? I'd opt for surfing the Net with a laptop in the park on a spring afternoon, rather than being stuck in the house plugged into a wall outlet. Or how about commuters surfing the Net during their suburban train ride home form the office? Can't do that with BPL.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>Who else can effectively represent YOUR amateur radio interests.<<

> The same pro-code crowd has been preaching to the no-> code crowd that we need to pitch in and help with
> the BPL battle, that's the real issue.

Yes, but a few of them are now on this board bragging that they have taken away the resources ARRL needs to work on BPL and to do a lot of other things that I want to see continue. It has to make you wonder how serious they were about asking others to pitch in and help with BPL and other issues...

If enough new hams take up the slack that those who leave ARRL will leave, things like spectrum protection, RFI, amateur radio in the classroom, on-line courses, the ARRL web page and the like will continue. If not, those things will not be done any longer by ARRL and either will remain undone or some other national organization will have to expand its charter if it can find the financial resources to do so.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WA1RKA on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Actually I have been following this, my point being the WRC-03 changes would be considered a change of an International Treaty. If I remember it takes a vote of Congress to approve the changes. If the changes were not approved by Congress then the FCC is powerless to act on eliminating or retaining the requirement.

An example would be the 12,17 and 30 meter bands. Those were granted at a WARC conference,but didnt take effect in this country for several years. Part of the reason was giving the commercial interests time to move out,and the other part was the FCC was powerless to act till Congress accepted the changes in the Treaty.

I dont recall the exact phrasing or section of the Constitution but to paraphrase it,"The President or his representatives have the power to make and change treaties with other countries,and they dont become effective unless voted on and passed by a majority of the US Congress."

I was off line for a short period during the late summer and fall due to moving.So I dont know if Congress ever voted on the changes made at the last conference.

73
John
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WS4Y, I too am waiting for the League's nationwide referendum on this issue. The League never should have submitted a proposal to the FCC before finding out how the entire membership felt on this issue. I am just waiting for my opportunity to file my comments with the FCC on this petition.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3DCG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just hope when the dust really settles, that some phone only guys and gals might discover that CW is not all that bad, that CW operators are not wierdos, nor are they all ancient- that in fact, it is likely that the consummate ham is adept with CW as well as phone and other modes, required or not. There are several higher speed operators I've met on 40m, teens, and younger clipping along at 30wpm, to be sure, these guys do BOTH Phone and CW, and they never belly-ached one bit about the stringent "burdensome" 5-whole-entire-words-per-minute minimal token standard of HF operations. In my experience, the most intelligent operators all of whom I admire and genuinely respect, are adept at CW as well as phone, and other modes.

Hopefully some will get a clue, realize that CW requires effort and focus, and is quite simply therefore HARDER than speaking into a microphone. Which is wonderful, speaking into a microphone- however, it is a fact, that almost everyone except the hearing/speech impared, can do that, with ZERO training.

I learned the Standardized Phonetics in one day. It took longer to learn Morse Code. Longer still to learn it well enough to be a useful and most excellent communications language.

Man, growing up, I could have sure used Free Lunch. We had that much money- Mom raising me all by herself on secretary wages... If we couldn't come up with 35 cents a day, I'd rather have starved, or else washed dishes for it.

---> I believe that for the Know Coders, the CW debate has been more about dignity, pride, tradition, and moral fortitude than anything else. <---

And yet, I'll be welcoming new, No Code HF people who practice good operating habits in the phone portions of the bands just the same. Glad to hear you on, you sound great, keep it up- and please, some day join me in the CW sub-bands. Or else not- just keep buying that radio gear, and using it well! Support Amateur Radio, it is a wonderful hobby.

Make room for the CB enthusiasts who never believed they could become a ham- if enthusiastic enough, perhaps, they'll learn a lot about themselves they never knew before, and Amateur radio will be the vehicle to self improvement beyond what they dared before imagine.

Yeah... probably I'm being overly optimistic, but what other choice do I have?

Some completely unrealistic hope that now the FCC will not strongly consider the ARRL proposal, because IT'S JUST PLAIN EASIER TO KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE NOW AND CHANGE NOTHING? That way the don't have to do ANYTHING AT ALL?

But- I have no gripes with the FCC, what little interaction I have had has been FIRST RATE, not the impression of laziness. My ticket came in the mail two weeks sooner than I expected. The FCC Customer Service Rep on the phone during my Vanity application process was excellent. Creative, too- he is the one that came up with my ULS system Password, I just went with it and keep it to this day. I cannot better the password he gave me. In my personal experience I have only praise for the FCC.

Therefore, the chances of the FCC doing NOTHING in all liklihood are nil, the chances of them adopting the ARRL proposal are likely.

I can hem and haw until the cows come home, but it won't affect matters nor make them better.

It's time to get over it. We lost, but not completely-now it's time to see what positivity the action brings, and maximize it, for the health and wellness of the AWESOME MULTI-FACETED hobby that Amateur radio has always been and still, IS.

I'll bet, there may be many hams chomping at the bit, while making it a personal goal to learn CW anyway. I would fall into this category. If the bottom 25 Kc of the classic bands were to open for Generals, I would not dare tread there. Not until I earn it. Only then can I look in the mirror and truly like the guy I see.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Just wait until all these "Gimmie" techs start demanding free ARRL publications! What then, Ed? Will you agree that the future of amateur radio demands that we do that to increase activity and invigorate the hobby?

What about the handbook and manual? Don't you agree that free (as in not earning) ARRL publications would both 1) Increase activity AND 2) invigorate ham radio?

WELLLLL......when will the "Gimmie" techs get FREE ARRL publications. And if the answer is "never" then why not?? Or isn't what is good for the goose also good for the gander?
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Just wait until all these "Gimmie" techs start demanding free ARRL publications! What then, Ed? Will you agree that the future of amateur radio demands that we do that to increase activity and invigorate the hobby?

What about the handbook and manual? Don't you agree that free (as in not earning) ARRL publications would both 1) Increase activity AND 2) invigorate ham radio?

WELLLLL......when will the "Gimmie" techs get FREE ARRL publications. And if the answer is "never" then why not?? Or isn't what is good for the goose also good for the gander?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KA0ABC on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Quoted from W9WHE: I can't pass medical school, but I want to be a doctor;

I can't pass law school, but I want to be a lawyer;

I can't pass dental school, but I want to be a dentist;

I can't pass engineering school, but I want to be an engineer;

So.... I think society should just relax the rules so I can be a Doctor, lawyer, dentist AND engineer!

AND if society won't, then, I WILL WHINE, STAMP MY FEET AND COMPLAIN UNTIL IT DOES!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CWTITAN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
split tail=seagoing carp(a fish). garbage spreader.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W2DUG on January 21, 2004:
"Test-free upgrades to General class simply won't make as big a difference as you are predicting; the upgrades are more likely to stimulate more advanced operators, if anything."

What about the rest of my post which you quoted from? I see consequences to an action like this. I don't wish to experience mass overcrowding on the HF bands when literally hundreds of thousands of codeless Techs take to the HF bands after being awarded a free ticket to General, along with loads of CBers and freebanders who will sit for 2 exams after some practice on QRZ without even studying or learning anything, and walk out of the session with a General. I remember the 40/s9 noise levels on 11 meters during the height of cycle 21. I don't want to see that happen on the amateur bands at the height of cycle 24.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3WVU on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ignore K4FAU's comments. He has been exposed as a fraud on another forum (MARS). He's posting using other people's callsigns and several different names, is NOT an Extra (probably not even a ham), and has fradulently tried to pass himself off as both an Army Officer and a member of the Coast Guard
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N4OZI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Lawd, o meltdown do rádio amador tem começado agora!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K8KHZ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am hoping that once the technicians and novices are upgraded without testing to general class will use HF more instead of using echolink thus maybe causing the echolink fad will die down. My problem with echolink usage is then they talk to DX stations The believe is is the same as an HF contact that is to some who have no comparison. I am hoping that this proposal will the saviour to what is call ed dumbing down to the technicians that would have never upgraded to use HF. Since some technicians are not interested in HF due to the great sounding computer 5X9 signal compared tothe weaker 5x5 signal of an HF contact. They all call thier new contact also an DX contact such like ours just that thiers is clearer listening. But now I hope that since they will have the privilage to work the HF band they will get off thier computers and go make a dipole and get on HF. I hope this will help the Amateur Radio industry, Swaps, and others in esscense to go onto live. That is my hope. I know everyone is bashing this proposal and think that it may degrade the licenses in place and finally make operators dumbers. But IMHO it will entice those technicians hopefully use HF instead of the echolink.

In final Remarks what needs to be done is a re-write of the DXCC rules to note that only 100% HF contacts are valid. Replacing the old two-way contact statement.

Echolink has some uses but it is very much simulair to regualar chat and voice/video chat already available without an amateur radio license on Yahoo.

What we really need is elmers to being younger children into the hobby at about age 5-6 and so on and show people in the general public what ham radio can be used for that regualar landline/celluar can not provide as far as communications along with a hobby that gives good morals such as the Boy Scots/Girl Scouts of America.

sean k8khz
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by K3WVU on January 21, 2004:
"Ignore K4FAU's comments. He has been exposed as a fraud on another forum (MARS). He's posting using other people's callsigns and several different names, is NOT an Extra (probably not even a ham), and has fradulently tried to pass himself off as both an Army Officer and a member of the Coast Guard"

K4FAU is the club station callsign for the Florida Atlantic University Amateur Radio Club. No legitimate ham should be posting under an ARC club callsign.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KB1IVU on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Why does a large group of hams on this forum make the assumption that Techs are bad operators? None of the whiners address the mess on 80 meters. It's nice to listen to the "good operators" on 80 jam and splash each other every night. I'm not for dropping the code and having passed Element 2 and 3 am working on passing the 5WPM exam. Is there any websites out there about the other countries who have dropped the code requirments and the effects on the HF spectrum?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W2DUG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> I see consequences to an action like this. I don't wish to experience mass overcrowding
> on the HF bands when literally hundreds of thousands of codeless Techs take to the HF bands
> after being awarded a free ticket to General, along with loads of CBers and freebanders
> who will sit for 2 exams after some practice on QRZ without even studying or learning anything,
> and walk out of the session with a General. I remember the 40/s9 noise levels on 11 meters during
> the height of cycle 21. I don't want to see that happen on the amateur bands at the height of cycle 24.

I think you are using more imagination than intelligent reasoning. For instance, do you really think that CBers and freebanders would suddenly decide, en masse, to take the tests following these changes? The ones that do are probably interested in becoming "legit" operators anyway...after all, isn't that how many of the existing hams got to where they are?

Also, there is probably a large number of current Technicians who don't have an interest in HF, but more importantly, don't have the equipment, know-how or motivation to get on HF. It is more likely that most, if not all, of the Technicians who ARE interested in HF are also interested in doing it right rather than turning the bands into a free-for-all. I really do believe this discipline is a common trait among hams (I don't have any evidence to the contrary yet), and I don't think the proposed changes, if implemented, would change that.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AD7DB on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK, so they want to keep a code test just for Extras. I can agree with that, after all, it's to prove you have some measure of competency in one particular mode.

So why is there not a touch typing test? We have a number of digital modes where keyboard skill is rather essential. I'd say 25 WPM should be agreeable. I type 45 WPM with two fingers and I've got arthritis. Typing any slower is a waste of live bandwidth.


 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah, we got a big fat CONVOY, ain't it a wonderfull HAM-site......-CONVOY!
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W2DUG on January 21, 2004:
"I think you are using more imagination than intelligent reasoning. For instance, do you really think that CBers and freebanders would suddenly decide, en masse, to take the tests following these changes? The ones that do are probably interested in becoming "legit" operators anyway...after all, isn't that how many of the existing hams got to where they are?

Also, there is probably a large number of current Technicians who don't have an interest in HF, but more importantly, don't have the equipment, know-how or motivation to get on HF. It is more likely that most, if not all, of the Technicians who ARE interested in HF are also interested in doing it right rather than turning the bands into a free-for-all. I really do believe this discipline is a common trait among hams (I don't have any evidence to the contrary yet), and I don't think the proposed changes, if implemented, would change that."

==

Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. Many other pro-coders believe as I do.

 
God Bless The ARRL and Pass The Coax  
by HAMFAN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Great day for ham radio. Way to go ARRL! Ya'll are my new favorite group of the moment. Will rejoin again after a 9 year absense.

Everything proposed makes fine sense and which is precisely why they proposed it. Fair and ballanced just like those TV news ding dongs.

To all you pitable old ol' farts who would rather die than switch. Please go ahead and die SOON so I can come by and get some of your more decent gear at a great price at the estate sale and float it to the over paying morons on ebay and make a pile of cash. I already have plenty of nice gear but may buy some more with the money I'll make off of you soon to be dead idiots.

73 and catch me soon on HF. I'll be the happy dx'er with a great attitude.

KE4ENX
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3WVU on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To AG4RQ:

You wrote: "K4FAU is the club station callsign for the Florida Atlantic University Amateur Radio Club. No legitimate ham should be posting under an ARC club callsign."

That's exactly my point. This guy has alternately identified himself (1) as a member of K4FAU, (2) an army signal officer on leave using his "buddy's shack and callsign to post", (3) a member of the US Coastguard, (4) and as an Extra who passed his extra exam at age 17 (in one post) or age 20 (in another). He's used at least 3 different names in the forums: Brian, Mike, and Sam, and has also used the callsign of a ham in Georgia, who is listed as a Tech.

My point to anyone reading this is that his posts should be ignored. They contain no substance, are always flippant and aggressive, and are, above all, obviously fraudulent. Do a forums search on K4FAU and you'll see what I mena. I'm thinking of contacting FAU and let them know their club is being misrepresented in this manner.

73

Dwight K3WVU
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W8JI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I see in the middle of this all, despite the fact an overwhelming number of people asked for a 160 meter narrow mode segment, the ARRL once again ignored 160 meters when refarming bands.

Way to go ARRL. Makes me sorry I paid for three years. That won't happen again, ever.

73 Tom

 
RE: God Bless The ARRL and Pass The Coax  
by DUALGATEMOSFET on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
A comment from one of the malignant tumors of ham radio:

God Bless The ARRL and Pass The Coax Reply
by HAMFAN on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Great day for ham radio. Way to go ARRL! Ya'll are my new favorite group of the moment. Will rejoin again after a 9 year absense.

Everything proposed makes fine sense and which is precisely why they proposed it. Fair and ballanced just like those TV news ding dongs.

To all you pitable old ol' farts who would rather die than switch. Please go ahead and die SOON so I can come by and get some of your more decent gear at a great price at the estate sale and float it to the over paying morons on ebay and make a pile of cash. I already have plenty of nice gear but may buy some more with the money I'll make off of you soon to be dead idiots.

73 and catch me soon on HF. I'll be the happy dx'er with a great attitude.

KE4ENX

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now, would you all like to read what this man used to have in his qrz.com profile?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Callsign: KE4ENX Class: Technician Codes: HAI USA
Name: WOODBURY M PARR
Addr1: PO BOX 193
Addr2: MOUNT AIRY, GA 30563
Country: USA
Effective: 16 Jun 1997 Expires: 24 Aug 2003
License ID: FRN: What's this?
Lookups: 155
Update / Renew License

Coordinates: 34° 33' 32'' N, 83° 27' 49'' W
County: Habersham County
Grid: EM84gn
Email: ke4enx@hotmail.com
QRZ Updated: 2001-11-29 13:32:01
Changes needed? Click here to update this listing...
Be sure and check out our Update Policy page if you have any questions.

Biography Info:

KE4ENX is located at 1,500' ele. in the NE Ga. mountains. My station is active base and mobile.
I am also a reader of the Urantia Book. The Urantia Book, pronounced [you're-an-sha], is the 5th Epocal Revelation of Truth from God to his children here on his planet. Urantia is the name of our planet. I would invite all who may be interested to view the Urantia Book and look over some other associated activities at the Urantia Foundation's website at www.urantia.org Rev: KE4ENX - Mon Jun 14 11:14:34 1999

Thanks Charles (Score:1)

by ke4enx on Sunday January 27, @12:29PM EDT (#72)
(User #24177 Info)


I appreciate your comments Charles and I understand your various positions and the enjoyments you get out of what you do with amatuer radio. I've had my tech ticket for 9 years and will renew next year. I work all modes (geesh excepting CW) currently on 6 and 2 meters. But I and many others like me do want to get on HF but continue to and will continue to reject this morse requirement nonsense. If the FCC doesn't drop the requirement after it should be dropped at WRC '03, then I'm tired of waiting. I'll go freeband as apparently thousands are doing now anyway. All areas of HF directly above and below the ham bands are becoming more and more populated with unlicensed operators....just talking, having fun and minding their own business and I shall be among them....if TNX again and 73



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This is exactly the kind of cancer that code testing kept off the HF bands. this kind of cancer shouldn't even be allowed on VHF.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AMATEUR2003 on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This will be wonderful. I can't wait to make new friends.

Ted
 
RE: God Bless The ARRL and Pass The Coax  
by W8JI on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To all you pitable old ol' farts who would rather die than switch. Please go ahead and die SOON so I can come by and get some of your more decent gear at a great price at the estate sale and float it to the over paying morons on ebay and make a pile of cash. I already have plenty of nice gear but may buy some more with the money I'll make off of you soon to be dead idiots.>>

Any person who wishes another person dead has a serious emotional problem. Couple that with the fact he wants to rob the "dead person", and isult them while at it.

This is a perfect example of the type of person other people were afraid of being given access to world-wide communications. One person like that can ruin life for 50 people, and here he comes to HF!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N5TEY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think the proposal is fair in nature. I am presently studying CW to upgrade regardless of the outcome of this proposal.

I was among the first wave of no-codes in 1991. I studied all the information just like everyone else did for both the technican and novice class. I took two complete test in one night. The only difference was that I did not take element one.

I will tell you after having been in amateur radio for nearly 13 years that many people will not care one way or the other about this proposal. The people who want to work hf will move toward it, but many people will continue to do what they are doing and maintain the status quo.

Many people could simply purchase a 706 and move into 6m just like I have. I have about 50 grids worked toward my VUCC. I told some people about my work on 6m and my move to learn cw and they have told me "why do you want to do that"? They are happy doing what they are doing now, which is fine. I have chosen to do something else which is also my choice. I enjoy 6m and look forward to hf with my cw upgrade or without it.

I feel that is plenty of room for all of us out there. I do NOT feel that radio heck is preparing to break loose. I think we can all learn from each other to advance to the state of amateur radio and that is what we all want.

I use amateur radio as part of my daily life and I will continue to do such with or without this proposal.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WC4SKY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
My take.

Three classes of license (Novice, General, Extra) each with additional privileges, but each with some privileges in all bands.

One written exam for each class, no auto upgrade i.e. from Tech to General. If a class of license provides any additional privileges, then that test must be taken. The test should reflect the privileges granted.

Retain Morse only frequency allocations, but no testing required. If you want to use it, learn it.

Jim
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W2DUG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> AG4RQ wrote:
> Time will tell who is right and who is wrong.
------

Amen to that. Let's all hope for the best and have some faith that whatever happens will make sense, and let's do what we can to see that it does.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CWTITAN wrote: "split tail=seagoing carp(a fish). garbage spreader."

Apparently this saying had a different meaning years ago than it does today. It's also being used as a very vulgar term for female anatomy.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ODY on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Some moron wrote: "To all you pitable old ol' farts who would rather die than switch. Please go ahead and die SOON so I can come by and get some of your more decent gear at a great price at the estate sale and float it to the over paying morons on ebay and make a pile of cash. I already have plenty of nice gear but may buy some more with the money I'll make off of you soon to be dead idiots"

That is one sick puppy. Hopefully he will get on his spaceship and fly back to Urantia where he can be among his brethren non-humans.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG4ZXP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think the new proposal has its merits. I think that entry level operators should be given a portion of HF, but not to the extent mentioned.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W2DUG on January 21, 2004:
"> AG4RQ wrote:
> Time will tell who is right and who is wrong.
------

Amen to that. Let's all hope for the best and have some faith that whatever happens will make sense, and let's do what we can to see that it does."

I agree. Whatever the FCC decides, we will all have to live with.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N0FP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
From the looks of these posts, incentive licensing should include an 'IQ' test. Geez folks. The ARRL is not the Anti-Christ. And this is not the end of ham radio. The FCC needs to respond to a treaty among nations, not among US hams. The FCC will respond with or without the ARRL's opinion. The ARRL made it's position known. I'm grateful.

So many lunatic opinions. I'm ashamed of most of the posters for not connecting their brains first.

Lemmeessee...

The ARRL is the only viable organization in the US that (as imperfect as it may seem) defends our bands, our modes, our license to operate radio. So several posters, in their finite wisdom, decide to boycott, cancel, and do what they can to frustrate the ARRL's efforts. And I bet these same idiots are the same people that haunt the product review archives and TIS pages late at night when nobody's watching.

For as long as I live, I will never forget a news clip I viewed many years ago during one of the race riots. This guy gets in front of the camera and says "Why did I burn my own house to the ground? Because I'm ANGRY about blah blah blah!" If it wasn't so tragic, it would still be funny.

The treaty is among nations, not US hams. The last thing I want is some technocrat at the FCC making policy in a vacuum of opinion. This is not the end of the world. This is no-doubt going to be the rules under which we will self regulate ourselves. Like it or not, reality is here.

New hams will not be required to do CW. That's the new reality. The real "incentive" in licensing is the bottom 25KHz of the band anyway. These new young pups will hear the DX lurking in the shadows behind the iron wall of the extra class band segments, and the good ones will upgrade. The rif-raf will remain good SSB ops and add to the ranks of the no-coders (the bulk of whom are decent folks). The 5WPM change didn't end ham radio, this won't either.

Instead of crying "the sky is falling," figure out a way to prop it up. You don't point at the 10 o'clock news caster and boycott him or her just because they bring bad news. Why boycott the ARRL? The bad news was the treaty, not this simple action.




 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by OFFENDEDHAM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>CWTITAN on January 21, 2004

>hey, who wants to be in a club with split tails like >kq6xa???

CWTITAN should be banned from this site. As a public accommodation, eham.net should take steps to censure anyone posting such slurs.

He and his ilk should be shunned.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K6KRV on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What the heck. Let's just have anyone fill out an application to qualify for a license. Tests are for kids!! Right??

No, but really, I've always been a fan of making it easier for entry into our wonderful hobby. The only thing I'd like to see is that the "top rung", as they call it, to be truly worthy of the term. The Amateur Extra should be -- EXTRA! I've always liked the "incentive" licensing program. That is, one earns more privileges as s/he goes up the license ladder. Extra licensees, for example, should have all amateur privileges, but should also pass a 20 wpm code test in addition to the written exam. Code may be dead everywhere else, but not among amateur radio ops.

But, hey, as we see our kids graduate high-school, they can't think, they can't add or substract numbers and they can't speak English worth a darn. There's no reason to believe that the FCC should require more from us than we require from ourselves.

It's so much easier to pass laws like the Patriot Act when the people don't (and can't) think for themselves. But wait, that's another discussion isn't it??

Dennis K6KRV ...-.-
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N3EVL on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ said: "...This proposal is a slap in the face to anyone who took a code test, especially those who currently are Generals, and worked to get where they are. In a way, it DOES take something away from me. I had to EARN my privileges..."

That's weird, I don't feel face-slapped at all! Please exclude me from your definition of "anyone." Sure, I worked to get where I am too, but that was then and this is now - get over it, deal with it, but don't assume you speak for everyone who ever passed a code test.

73, Pete, N3EVL
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K7VO on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK, now that I know what "split tails" can mean I see I was right that I would be offended.

Does anyone wonder why there are so relatively few female hams?

-Caitlyn
K7VO
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K0RFD on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KB1IVU wrote:

>Why does a large group of hams on this forum make
> the assumption that Techs are bad operators?

I sense from your post that you don't like generalizations. Then don't MAKE them.

I have read all the posts in this thread. I didn't see a large number of posts that implied, let alone SAID, that techs were bad operators. I think the issue is larger than that, and I think that most people who posted to this thread are smart enough to realize it.

Most of what I have read in this thread is more cerebral than the visceral "code/no code" bull we are used to reading. If I count up the posts, I think that what worries people most is turning newbies loose in the HF spectrum without them having to demonstrate that they have at least a minimal understanding of how it works.

Make no mistake about it. HF is a different animal than your local 2-meter repeater. It propagates much differently, requires different etiquette, and can get you in a whole lot more trouble a lot faster than what you are used to as a Tech.

Tests are no indication that you actually UNDERSTAND. But passing a test at least indicates that you have been exposed to the material. I think that to operate on HF you should at least be exposed to what it involves. To immediately upgrade a Tech to General falls far short of that. And what I read here tells me that's what most other Hams are worried about too.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2NZJ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ALL THESE WHINERS CRYING ABOUT CHANGE SOUND WORSE THAN ALL THE 100,000 CBER'S THAT ARE LEFT "WOW" I'VE NEVER SEEN S**T LIKE THIS. the ARRL is our only viable organization that REPRESENT US do that in WHO WILL STAND UP AND DEFEND US." NO ONE " IS THAT WHAT SOME OF YOU CRY BABIES WANT!!!!!!!!!!!. THEN WHEN THEY GO THE SHARKS WILL MOVE IN AND BUY UP ALL YOUR PRECIOUS BANDS UP. THEN WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO.GO FRS,11 METERS OR SOME WHERE ELSE!!!. be careful what you wish for. BECAUSE YOU MIGHT JUST GET IT!!!. AGAIN I WILL STATE I FULLY SUPPORT THE ARRL AND IT'S PETITION FOR THE BETTERMENT OF A R S. QUOTE CHANGE IS GOOD IN THIS "CASE". TOM N2NZJ 73
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N3EVL on January 21, 2004:
"That's weird, I don't feel face-slapped at all! Please exclude me from your definition of "anyone." Sure, I worked to get where I am too, but that was then and this is now - get over it, deal with it, but don't assume you speak for everyone who ever passed a code test.

73, Pete, N3EVL"

Well, E-X-C-U-S-E M-E! I forgot that that there are some Extras that want to give away the key to the city. Press conference is at 8:00 PM EDT on September 21, 2009. I will make a formal apology then. Until then, I guess I will have to use the disclaimer "except N3EVL".
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Actually I have been following this, my point being
> the WRC-03 changes would be considered a change of
> an International Treaty. If I remember it takes a
> vote of Congress to approve the changes.

This turns out not to be true in this case. "routine" treaty modifications are accepted as is, without congress acting, and this appears to qualify as one of those.

Ratifying changes to treaties is different than ratifying treaties in the first place.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3JZG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
BULL!!If someone was that interested in ham radio, it is nothing to learn 5wpm....13 years ago you dropped from 20wpm to 5wpm for the extra license, tell me, how many new extras did you have at that time? How many more people became generals? How many more people became tech+? What a load of crap the ARRL is spreading..... Nothing but a dam dollar in there pocket...Wait and see what they do with BPL if you REALLY think the ARRL is behind you.......
The ARRL does NOT speak for me! PERIOD
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N4UJF on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Where does everybody get the idea that all Tech Plus licensees are not worthy of General Class licenses and should be sent back to the Novice minor league? I, and many others, passed Element 1 and 3 and am eligible to be a General as the rules stand now. Too bad I lost that slip of paper from 17 years ago and the FCC is too busy to check their own records.

This new proposal is is just as good as any thing else the ARRL has come up with. It serves their purposes for now and and will until their "next big thing."
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> 1. Getting a ham ticket should be difficult.

Getting a ham ticket has never been difficult.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KF4MKJ on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The flames on here are getting hillarious. Blaming the people who stand to get upgraded to general for getting upgrading to general. Like they are the ones who ordered the upgrade. "Gimme Gimme Gimme," they are no doubt as surprised as anyone. Besides the FCC has not made any decision. This is only a proposal. My prediction. Techs will stay at the entry class level. Code will be done away with. And the rest will go as the ARRL suggested.

These are changing times. Ham radio ain't going to die from this. Hopefully this will rejuvenate radio from 160 meters thru microwave. No longer will there be the stigma of being "stuck" with VHF and above. All bands will get equal respect from the new people.

73 KF4MKJ
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0RKX on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If you don't like what the ARRL has done or will do in regards their licensing proposal you do have a couple of options.
1. Recall every single director that voted for it, vote your man/woman in, then have a house cleaning at headquarters.
2. Don't renew your membership and encourage anyone else you know not to renew.

Maybe its time the ARRL started sharing some of our pain. Your membership dues could be put to better use by organizations such as FISTS.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB3JZG on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I agree.....
And I plan on getting my money back from them....
Maybe Ill donate what I get back from them to GWB, but thats another story...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4JF on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here's from a 28 year ham, who has held all classes of license except Tech (was always interested in HF). I am once again proud to be a member of ARRL. They listened to me (and they asked all of us... if you didn't have input it is because you didn't speak up...) and I'm just a member with no office in the organization. I suggested they retain CW for Extra because one cannot claim the highest level without knowing all facets of the hobby. For example I learned satellite and Packet principles for my Extra exam, although I have no immediate plans to use them. So should it be with the original digital mode.

HF access without CW is here worldwide, so there is no sense in US being different. (Yes, the code speed was 20 wpm when I took my Extra, which of course was nothing to a longtime CWer, I found it to be quite easy.)
I think the proposal is sound, and hope it is adopted. It is an excellent compromise, accepting realities of the world today. FB & TNX ARRL!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Posted By N0RKX
>
> If you don't like what the ARRL has done or will do in regards their licensing proposal you do have a couple of options.
> 1. Recall every single director that voted for it, vote your man/woman in, then have a house cleaning at headquarters.
> 2. Don't renew your membership and encourage anyone else you know not to renew.
>
> Maybe its time the ARRL started sharing some of our pain. Your membership dues could be put to better use by organizations such as FISTS.

Or better yet, do something constructive like renew your membership and get involved. I was questioned about my opinion well in advance. My director even approached me privately. Your #2 is as stupid as disowning your mother because she made you eat your carrots. And what does FISTS do for anybody? They just collect and catalog a bunch of numbers.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3ULS on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The proposal by the ARRL's Board of Directors is both rational and forward-looking.

Predictably, there is a spate of cantankerous naysaying as evidenced from some of the commenters on this article. For every one of the bitter-enders who cancels his/her ARRL membership as a result of the ARRL action, you can bet there soon will be a corresponding increase in newer members who are younger, far more open-minded, and not burdened by having nostalgic memories of how hard it was to become a ham in the 1950s. They almost certainly will be more technically adept than the old-timers as well.

So there's a bonus from the Board's proposal: not only will new blood be brought in to unplug the hardened arteries of our hobby, but it will make over time for a more vibrant and forward-looking ARRL, whose leaders no longer will have to take into account the extreme negative views of those who resigned over this issue.

Way to go, ARRL!

73,

John, W3ULS
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>> 16) I don't know about you, but the things I
>> cherish most are *not* the things I work hard at.
>> They're the things that come as a complete
>> surprise -- like a special sunset.

> Or a winning lottery ticket! :-) The value of
> amateur radio to me is not in how hard I worked at
> getting licensed -- it is the value of my access to
> spectrum and the value of what I can do with amateur
> radio.

Well said

> The "passion" here tells us clearly that there is
> support for code testing among ARRL membership. The
> ARRL proposal included code testing for that very
> reason. There is also support to eliminate code
> testing altogether, or any number of variations in
> between. That is the nature of the substance from
> which compromises are made.

By Disrali's rule, this is a good compromise: it has made no one happy. ;)



 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> How many times has the ARRL ever emailed you back
> when you write them for any reason ????

Every email I've sent to an ARRL official has been replied to, including email directly to my director, section manager, other section appointees, and Jim Haynie.

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
More than just an organization..To some the ARRL is a RELIGION ! If that be the case,I am Proud to be counted among the Heretics.

Many ARRL members defend thier "Religion" Right or Wrong and that is the REAL danger. These Devout ARRL worshipers kneel at the ARRL logo and Qst is their BIBLE...Hey folks...you know darn well what I say is TRUE!...It's time that they hear from the 80% who are not of their Religion..W8VOM
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3WVU on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I don't use CW on HF because I prefer the other modes available to me, but I really do not have a problem with keeping the 5 WPM requirement the way it's been proposed. If you can't learn code at 5 wpm, you're not trying! If you never intend to be a CW op, you literally can hear the sound, translate it to dots and dashes in your head, translate the dots and dashes to characters, and then write the characters down on paper---that's how slow 5 wpm is! Warning: don't learn it that way if you ever want to be active in CW, because you'll never be able to copy over 10 wpm that way.

I'm sorry but I don't see what everyone is so worked up about.

73

Dwight
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3DCG on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW Titan, whomever you are... I never heard of the Split Tail carp.
On this CW issue, I had hoped, chanted, ranted, raved, danced in circles, that the idealism in my head would have been realized:

5 (tech), 13 (general), and 20 (extra)

I tried every reasoning I could imagine, from the "usefulness" of CW to the other end- the philosophy of self-improvement, determination, and accomplishment. I even called people names.

I had hoped that the US would be the ocean going Rainbows, aka, Steelhead.
One of the all time most awesome sport fish ever, especially on fly-tackle!

A marvel to behold, the Steelhead. I never had the pleasure of landing one of these with a fly. I will though, in time. However I've run into a 7-lander, on CW, of course, who surely did/does just exactly that! Seems like there's another 8 or 9 lander who does Great Lakes Steelhead.

We can still breed Steelhead.

You know why? Because CW is totally cool. It's fun. It's rare. Since only hams do it anymore, it's a ham thing. Based upon this (because we all talk on the telephone every day- we all talk, we all write via keyboards, big deal, don't need a license for that), CW is probably more so than any other mode, THE ham thing. Sure phone ops outnumber CW ops, but- non hams talk ALL THE TIME. Not so with CW. CW is the one very special HAM THING. The decoder is between your ears. Not so with digital modes.

You know, Salmon- they go to the ocean and come back too. Then they die, or ideally, after spawing, become bear food.

Steelhead, they go, they come back, they go back out again, they come back, they go back out again...

Steelhead. One tough, smart, and gorgeous fish, too.

Plenty of Salmon out there, surely they will always outnumber Steelhead. Like phone seems more popular than CW. You know, the salmon and steelhead, they spawn up the same rivers and occupy the same oceans and Great Lakes. They co-exist in harmony.

But one can plainly see, a Steelhead, is not a Salmon.

CW Forever,

73 to all the fishes, Split-Tailed Carp, Salmon (all varieties), the Bass, Northern Pike, Tarpon, and other fishies out there, including of course, the Steelhead.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA1RKA:

Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution defines the powers of the President. Clause 2 states, "He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur ...". The Senate ratified the relevant treaties which oblige the US to follow the Rules of the ITU. Congress gave the FCC all the authority it needs to implement the International Rules when it passed the Communications Act of 1934 and subsequent revisions. No further Congressional action is required.

BTW, there was no Congressional action required to open the WARC bands either.

73 de W3JJH
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM

Your QRZ page includes a picture of you, your hatred for the only organization that defends your sorry excuse for hamdom, and the following:

"Over the years I have achieved WAS-DXCC-WAC and the Great Lakes Award. "

In protest, I think you should tear up all the nasty evidence of your ARRL sponsored award participation. And then proceed to start your own charitable organization devoted to 100% of the ingrates like yourself. From the looks of these postings, you will have lots of ex-'members' full of hatred and disgust who will join up. You can send them a newsletter once a month and fill the pages with rediculous arguments describing all the things you love to hate. Just think of it!

I wonder what they did to make you hate your ticket so?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K2NDR on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Looks like the General that had to do 13 wpm loses again.After being a Ham for 38 yrs I think I will give up my membership in the ARRL. They won't need my dues money anyway after the radio manufactures reward their efforts to ruin this once fine hobby.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NN7B on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ah, to watch the grand parade of members leaving the ARRL over a proposal... No, I don't agree with their proposal completely but, it's only that, a proposal. Some of you act as if it's a "done deal". Whatever ARRL wants isn't necessarily what the FCC is going to adopt. But, they are the organized 'voice' of the amateur community. There are better ways of expressing your opinion than cancelling a membership that you will just be renewing again later.

You are much better off expressing your thoughts to your ARRL division director than blowing away your ARRL membership over a proposal.

Not the first time this has happened. And, likely not the last.

I would like to see the present no-code technicians also be granted the new Novice band segments only. But, that doesn't make sense if you drop the CW requirements for a General class license. Then ALL tech class licensees SHOULD be grandfathered into the General Class.

I love CW! That's what I operate 90% of the time. I also feel that some of you that want a CW requirement really want it preserved as a kind of "rite of passage". It isn't. cW will only survive because there are those of us who enjoy using it. The CW requirement for the Extra Class will eventually disappear as well. Over-crowded 'voice' band segments will eventually force out the CW/digital segments or, the band plans will simply go ignored by SSB operators and they will encroach on those areas because few hams will be using them. Or, they will demand the CW/digital portions of the bands be cut in half to accomodate the hoards of new Generals and Novices on HF.

CW will eventually be pushed out of the way altogether as a 'requirement' for any class of license and there will no longer be band segments set aside for it's use. Or, the band plans are ignored by operators tired of the over-crowded sections of their bands.

I certainly don't want to expedite the inevitable but, if you're going to resist the changes, the bring your opinions to the appropriate forum and do something about it. Better yet, I suggest you begin a petition drive in your area to be presented to your division director if you feel strongly enough about this, then do something about it. Cancelling your membership will only send ARRL a message if 1/3 of the ham population do that and I don't think anyone is going to persuade anyone to cancel their membership over a 'proposal'.

All the responses are interesting to read because the flame level is considerably less than I expected to read. ;) 73, Paul
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
K2NDR

Nick,

Why do you think YOU lost anything. You know CW. That's an asset. So because others are not required, you would divorce yourself the ONLY opportunity to have a voice in the next decision?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NN7B on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ah, to watch the grand parade of members leaving the ARRL over a proposal... No, I don't agree with their proposal completely but, it's only that, a proposal. Some of you act as if it's a "done deal". Whatever ARRL wants isn't necessarily what the FCC is going to adopt. But, they are the organized 'voice' of the amateur community. There are better ways of expressing your opinion than cancelling a membership that you will just be renewing again later.

You are much better off expressing your thoughts to your ARRL division director than blowing away your ARRL membership over a proposal.

Not the first time this has happened. And, likely not the last.

I would like to see the present no-code technicians also be granted the new Novice band segments only. But, that doesn't make sense if you drop the CW requirements for a General class license. Then ALL tech class licensees SHOULD be grandfathered into the General Class.

I love CW! That's what I operate 90% of the time. I also feel that some of you that want a CW requirement really want it preserved as a kind of "rite of passage". It isn't. cW will only survive because there are those of us who enjoy using it. The CW requirement for the Extra Class will eventually disappear as well. Over-crowded 'voice' band segments will eventually force out the CW/digital segments or, the band plans will simply go ignored by SSB operators and they will encroach on those areas because few hams will be using them. Or, they will demand the CW/digital portions of the bands be cut in half to accomodate the hoards of new Generals and Novices on HF.

CW will eventually be pushed out of the way altogether as a 'requirement' for any class of license and there will no longer be band segments set aside for it's use. Or, the band plans are ignored by operators tired of the over-crowded sections of their bands.

I certainly don't want to expedite the inevitable but, if you're going to resist the changes, the bring your opinions to the appropriate forum and do something about it. Better yet, I suggest you begin a petition drive in your area to be presented to your division director if you feel strongly enough about this, then do something about it. Cancelling your membership will only send ARRL a message if 1/3 of the ham population do that and I don't think anyone is going to persuade anyone to cancel their membership over a 'proposal'.

All the responses are interesting to read because the flame level is considerably less than I expected to read. ;) 73, Paul
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0ODY on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"Does anyone wonder why there are so relatively few female hams?"

I can honestly say that I've never run into such egregiously tasteless behavior on the air as I have here... apparently the crap-slingers here don't care one whit about what you and I or anyone else thinks of them... hence their penchant for no-substance, abusive and anonymous posts.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To: N0FP

"Your QRZ page includes a picture of you, your hatred for the only organization that defends your sorry excuse for hamdom, and the following:"

"Over the years I have achieved WAS-DXCC-WAC and the Great Lakes Award. "

Well Mr N0FP..Thats right...I "once" belonged to the ARRL. There are many things I have done in the past that I no longer do and I am sure the same goes for you! I achieved these awards because I *worked* for them! I also worked for my General ticket. Since you now attack me on a "personal" level,what goes round comes round. You sir blindly accept (everything) the ARRL comes out with for it is your "Religion". I feel so sorry for you,you blindly defend even the Indefensible! Take your ARRL card carring sorry butt
to your ARRL church and keep on worshiping your God!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey whiners, don't slam the door on your way out. If you don't have enough sense to know that the hand writing has been on the wall for morse code as a testing requirement then you have had your head buried in the sand. You act like you own the ham bands. If that is the case then why do they refer to it as operating privileges. The government allows us to operate at its discretion. The ARRL knows this, that is why they prepared a proposal that could be reasonably accepted by the powers that be at the FCC. No doubt this proposal and the language ultimately presented was something that has been a part of an ongoing dialogue between the FCC and the ARRL. A reasonable comprise that could be swallowed by the government. Don't blame the ARRL because they didn't fall on a sword for morse code. After all how credible would they have been with the FCC if they had demanded continued morse testing for operation on the HF bands, when there is no overwhelming justifiable mandate to continue the requirement. Except for what appears to be a group wanting to preserve what they believe to be their property. And as I said earlier, we as amateur radio operators don't have any right to claim any of the bands as property. Those of you that demand that code stay as a testing requirement ought to be happy that the ARRL represented you and held out on extra. Do you really think that the FCC would go backwards and impliment a 13 or 20 wpm requirement for extra? So, go ahead a leave the ARRL, those of us left here don't need you. We can go on without all of the negativity, unreasonableness, hatefulness, rudeness, insults, disrespect, and lack of insight.

The ARRL knew that this decision would upset a lot of amateurs on either side of the debate. They had the sense to make a reasonable proposal to the FCC, something that would be workable and future oriented. Something that left amateur radio operators credible with the FCC. In all probability the FCC will come out with something resembling this proposal but not quite the same, who knows what the government in all its wisdom will do. If the ARRL would have put out a proposal that didn't remove code testing as a requirement for HF operation, do you really think the FCC would have taken us seriously? Wake up and smell the roses.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM writes:

"Take your ARRL card carring sorry butt
to your ARRL church and keep on worshiping your God!"

I think you should have used a small "g" to be correct.

No, I do not worship the ARRL. I do not agree with some of what it does. I do not like the outcome of this recent decision. But I also am forced to exist in this often strange place known to sane people as reality. And reality bites.

The ARRL is the only thing standing between you, me, and ATT. Like it or not, that's the facts. And since you have chosen to remove yourself from any participation in the only organization that stands for your best interest, you have chosen to let the chips fall where they may. You have no voice. You are irrelevant to the grand scheme of things. And all the other W8VOM minded folks are equally irrelevant. You have no voice.

So Nick, what organizations do you support? Do you support anybody out there that has a voice at the FCC? How about your elected representatives in Congress (although I doubt you vote since your MO is to just run and be critical of everything and everyone attempting to manage change). You have a station, a license, and lots of equipment. Our Lord and Saviour gave you a mouth to use, and you choose to use it with vile and contempt. What alter do you worship at? You worship at the alter of Nick the great. A voice of one. A nobody....
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM writes:

"Take your ARRL card carring sorry butt
to your ARRL church and keep on worshiping your God!"

And from his eHam profile

I have earned the following accomplishments in ham radio...
OO-VE-DXCC-WAS-WAC-GLA AND GOLWING AWARDS CONFIRMED


And this is comming from an official observer? I feel sorry for the first no-code HF ham he sends a pink slip to. If any of you get one from him contest it...

W8VOM, you are just as much of a a disgrace to the amateur community as CWTITIAN is...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WB5HZE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KC0JTC, you've dead on the money IMHO. Dealing with the FCC on regulatory changes ALWAYS involves compromise & it is not reasonable to blame the ARRL for developing a generally palatable proposal that is in line with current trends. At least they propose code testing for Extra & propose multiple classes of licenses- if left to their own devices with no (reasonable) input from the amateur community, the FCC might well completely eliminate code testing & even go so far as to migrate everyone to a single license class (commercial ops, remember when the FCC eliminated the First & Second Class Radiotelephone licenses & gave everyone a lifetime General Class?).
Frankly, I don't see what the big uproar is all about. Nobody loses anything at all under the proposal, nor will their ability to operate be impaired. Why should anyone be outraged that others might have an easier entry into the HF bands than they did? For Pete's sake, this is a HOBBY, not higher education!
Now, I'm a CW op & rarely visit the phone bands. I also liked things just fine the way they were 30 years ago. But there's been a lot of changes between then & now, some I disliked & some I welcomed- but frankly my operations were NOT impaired as a result of any of those changes whether "good" or "bad". I've learned to just go with the flow & continue to enjoy the hobby- change happens, it's part of life.
The only thing that really concerns me is whether new & upgraded amateurs will be good, courteous ops when they join us on HF. But that is more a matter of the individual's character rather than how much advanced theory they know or whether they passed a code test.
Oh, yeah, about the ARRL . . . well folks, as with anyone such organization you have the right to join or leave as you see fit. Doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me one way or the other. I think I'll side with the voices of reason, though.

Ron WB5HZE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K9KJM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I really like the new ARRL license class proposal for the three future classes of license. I think it is a
good way to go. I agree with AD6WL..........
HOWEVER I do NOT agree that present "no code" techs
should be "given" a General class license without
taking the General written exam! There IS a big difference in the exams! Give the present no code
techs the "new" novice priviliges........ Until they
take and pass the element 3 written!
I fully understand the FCC desire to limit the number of license classes. Just make the present "Tech" class
non renewable........ Someone with the present "tech" class license would either have to upgrade to general by taking the written, OR renew
as a novice class if he/she chooses to do nothing.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To: N7UQA and N0FP,

You attack me on a personal level because I dare blaspheme the ARRL.

I have a right to express my opinion on their proposal just like everyone else. When you attacked me on a "personal level"I won the debate! In my view,some of the ARRL membership have a Religious attitude towards the ARRL and accept everything they pontificate to the membership! I am not "alone" in my viewpoint and many of my fellow amateurs see flaws in this proposal. The ARRL has done many good
things over the years but again...I have a right to voice my opposition to this proposal and I will continue to do so. I do not have a Religious admiration for the ARRL,I remain opposed to the proposal. Put away your swords before you impale yourselves.Understand this... we all have a right to our opinions!

The only amateurs that are a disgrace
to this hobby are the one's who have an opinion and will not express it.This is what the ARRL thrives on!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM

I respect your opinions but please keep what the ARRL is trying to do in context. Blasting them as some radical religion that all of us blindly follow is just silly. I don't always agree with what they do but given the touchy nature of the subject I think they did good. What's to stop the FCC from saying: "Well guys we like what we see but could you please drop the code requirement altogether?"

ARRL: "But our members would like to keep a code requirement."

FCC: "Well the ITU and 31 countries so far seem to disagree with you. Besides we do not want the extra overhead of keeping track of who has done the code and who has not."

Will you then say that the ARRL and FCC are in trying to turn the entire HF band into one big CB band?

The ARRL needs the help of ALL hams, if the proposal does pass just suck it up and make the best of it...
 
I don't believe this is about CB'ers becoming Hams  
by K8JX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After reading over the vast, and heated ( I wish the ARRL and FCC could attain this passion for our hobby!) comments, I think its time to look at the results of this change. First off, I personally do not care what hobby the person was into before or after attaining his/her present Ham license class. I myself was a CBer back in 1963 or so. I was merely interested in the exciting hobby of electronics and communications. Being a CBer just left me flat. Nothing there to quench my thirst for knowledge. Then I met the Amateur Radio Service. They actually expected one to not only learn basic theory, appropriate for ones license class, but also learn how to communicate, ie. Morse Code. It was love at first sight. ah...
Then the ARRL came along and mucked it up with their incentive licensing plan. The FCC wasn't going to change anything, but the ARRL pushed this baby through. It was a mess for all concerned. Then, the FCC, seeing how the future of communications was headed, ( digital) desired the creation of a no-code license. It had a huge positive effect on our hobby. we got new folks and to this day, all of those new folks expressed a desire to learn the code, wheather they actually could or not. They tried.
Now this current change.This is no good. Remember, THIS IS A TECHNICAL SERVICE, not hobby. I don't believe the word hobby is even mentioned in part 97.
GMS, CB or if you have the bucks, commercial or business radio is availible if all you desire to do is use it as a hobby. ( one can do this, but at least learn the theory and the ability to speak one lanuage spoken all over the world: Morse code.) One problem, is trying to tinker around with the present license classes and their names. no good. Get rid of them and start fresh. Perhaps ( here I go) two classes. The digital, with HF and above, but no code and theory to match the equipment used. and of course, the communicator ( I never said I had the right names picked out hi hi). Everything and the kitchen sink, but with 10 WPM code test.
Ok, now I'll shut up.
Rich K8JX
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC4ZEX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I fully support the ARRL proposal as it is. I just renewed my dues a couple weeks ago an am now glad i did. I don't believe their will be any dumbing down. Just hope they move fast in putting it in operation. I started listening to hf in 1968 their were some advanced an extra's cussing an fussing then an the ones still alive are still doing the same thing. Good job directors.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KI4BNH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Perspective:

I was a Novice 25 yrs Ago
Passed Elem 2 & 3 last July (100%)
(w/ Grandfathered Code)
Passed Element 4 Oct 30th if I recall...
Joined 2 clubs & ARES
Became a VE and do that monthly.

While I AM somewhat a "paper Extra", and feel an appropriate measure of GUILT abt not being a 20WPM guy Y E T , I do care abt the service called Amateur Radio but I don't feel "threatened" to the point of insult if Uncle Charlie lowers admittance criteria to our "Loyal Order of Water Buffalo's".

Perhaps those who freaked out, also quit the NRA and sent their money to a club that sponsors bowling pin matches...???

Good Grief, me thinks they are lonely & have to &$&&&% to feel alive. Grumpy Old Men Pt III ?

Listen for me on 20 calling CQ "NO Contest"
It elicits some nice responses!

73,

de KI4BNH (In search of a worthy vanity call)
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
((((And, btw, the ARRL bylaws don't contain a requirement that ARRL members back each other up, so if you join, you can still tell me that I am full of hooey. And I won't get mad if you use arrows to quote this when you do!)))))))

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

MR ED, I do not have to join the ARRL to say you a bunch of Hooey, and(^^&(^&(&%%*^^(^&(%*$*$*&(&(((R
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Many ARRL members defend thier "Religion" Right or
> Wrong and that is the REAL danger. These Devout ARRL
> worshipers kneel at the ARRL logo and Qst is their
> BIBLE...Hey folks...you know darn well what I say is
> TRUE!...It's time that they hear from the 80% who
> are not of their Religion..W8VOM

I have worked at ARRL HQ for almost 18 years now, and in all of those years, I have never once seen anyone kneeling at the ARRL logo on the sign on the HQ grounds near the street.

This "religion" kick of yours truly does make your posts appear ridiculous. I don't think that ARRL is a religion; I have a perfectly good one of my own, thank you, and its realities deal with things that are not part of ARRL's charter. The ARRL Board of Directors doesn't take ARRL to be a religion either; it is an organization working on doing what the Board sees as good things for amateur radio. Most hams think that most of those things meet that goal.

To me, ARRL is no more and no less than a tool for me to accomplish within amateur radio those things that I believe to be important. As staff, I get to do some of them, and as a member, I get to contribute to the resources that allow others to do the rest of them. And both give me an opportunity to more effectively grouse about the few things the League does that I don't think are being done the best possible way.

Let's leave it to those that might read this whether they think that anyone thinks that ARRL is a religion, or whether they think that all but you (apparently) see it as no more than a way to collectively get things done that cannot be done effectively one-on-one.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Maybe its time the ARRL started sharing some of our
> pain. Your membership dues could be put to better
> use by organizations such as FISTS.

If an organization comes along that will make better use of the support I give to ARRL, I will support it. I do just that for organizations like QRP-ARCI, TAPR, etc., which are, in their areas, doing a better job of representing the speciality interests that are my part of ham radio.

You say that my dues could be put to better use by FISTS, so let me ask you to tell us what FISTS has been or will do in the following areas. These represent the work being done by ARRL that is important to me, and I would like you to tell us how you think FISTS will do it better.

o Spectrum protection: Describe how FISTS will work nationally, internationally and in the "real" industry to help protect amateur use of spectrum. Tell us what industry committees they will join and pay staff or volunteers to attend meetings. At ARRL, I am involved in the C63 RFI committee, the SCC-28 RF Safety Committee and the automotive EMC/EMR committees, plus significant informal liaison with numerous industry groups, such as HomePlug, Home Phone Networking Alliance, NCTA, SCTE, etc. I have never run into the FISTS representatives at these meetings, though, although they probably don't yet have the resources. Can you describe what plans FISTS has to make better use of my dues money in the general spectrum area? Also, I didn't see any filing from FISTS on the BPL matter, the 70 cm RFID matter or any of the sundry "Part 15" petitions. If they get the support, will they make better use of the dues dollars by filing better material than ARRL did in those proceedings?

o Education. Will fists expand the "Big Project" that has been developed to use amateur radio as a teaching tool in the classroom? Will they develop a better curriculum than ARRL did? Will they provide donated amateur stations (new equipment, paid for from contributions, grants that ARRL has sought and membership dues) to more schools? Will they include more schools n their more generalized program to support teachers exposing kids to amateur radio?

I could expand any of a dozen-odd things that are important to me and form the reasons that I am an ARRL member, but these two will do. If you are trying to convince me to give my support to a different organization than ARRL, I think that I can and should ask you in what ways it will be better in a few of the areas that I care about. That was a pretty generalized statement, so let's hear more about your basis for making it.

The "pain" that will result from the loss of some ARRL members over any one issue is that ARRL will have fewer resources to do the other things that it does. Some of those things are important to me and I want to see them continue, so I disagree with your conclusion. If you can convince me that FISTS will do a better job of those things than ARRL, I am willing to change my mind.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> I, and many others, passed Element 1 and 3 and am
> eligible to be a General as the rules stand now. Too
> bad I lost that slip of paper from 17 years ago and
> the FCC is too busy to check their own records.

The VECs can and do accept Callbook information as proof that you were a "full-test" Technician. Contact ARRL HQ and ask for the VEC folks and they will tell you what you need to do. We have Callbooks in our Library and if needed, I will take a few minutes and make the necessary copies for you. It ain't my job, but I will do it anyway -- words you may never hear again! :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> WELLLLL......when will the "Gimmie" techs get FREE
> ARRL publications. And if the answer is "never" then
> why not?? Or isn't what is good for the goose also
> good for the gander?

Of course they won't get free publications. If you want goose and gander here, what has this proposal asked YOU to supply for free? Mixing apples and oranges makes fruit cocktail, which is a solution for only a very limited set of circumstances.

Did you read my rather long first two posts in this thread. I explained why I believe that the only viable option is to combine the Tech and General classes. Rather than your offering fruit-cocktail analogies, could you offer your views on the points I made in those posts? From some of what has been said, I am sure that a some didn't read those posts, but I don't want to repost them because that would require too many arrows and our list arrow-cop would become very, very unhappy. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you ED RFI! Calling me a ""list Arrow cop"" is the only nice thing you ever said about me!!!

73 and laughs DE MIKE
 
RE: God Bless The ARRL and Pass The Coax  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> To all you pitable old ol' farts who would rather
> die than switch.

> 73 and catch me soon on HF. I'll be the happy dx'er
> with a great attitude.

The content of your post was far from a "great attitude..."

Ed
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KX2S on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Death of a hobby. Look folks CB has finally won out.
The LID level on the HF bands has been increasing. Now it is going to be a free for all.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hmmm, Ed and I agree with something.
The LID that says we should all die, so you can have all our equiptment at the ESTATE SALE!

I have an offer for you, If you can take 3 of my roundhouse kicks to your head, you can have ALL my Ham,Commercial, and Mil. equiptment.

Sound fair? Of course the damage to your temporal lobe, will destroy Brockahs, and wenericis area of the brain. So no speech or hearing, chump!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KI4CYB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am no a code fanatic, and I hated the fact that one had to learn CW to get HF privileges...
But wanting HF privileges I sucked it up and learned and passed element 1 CW. After hearing all the
complaining and whining of people preferring that the CW code gets dropped made me even more
destin to get my ticket.

Now all the techs not wanting to learn the code will all get a free ride, that's not right!

When one goes to college for a BA, you need to pass English 1101 BASIC! and all those other
requirements...



Really bummed about this hole thing!
My ARRL membership will not be renewed next year. Rather give money to eham.com


73 de KI4CYB
Joe
 
W8KQE's idea  
by W4FFG on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Over in the Survey area, W8KQE has a good idea:

"I feel we should get rid of the 'Tech Plus' designation, and just have 3 classes. the entry-level 'Tech', the 'General', and 'Extra'. 3 classes are perfect! Merging the current 'Tech' and 'Tech Plus', and allowing no-code priveleges on the 10m sliver 28.300-28.500 would be a great idea. Thus giving ALL no-code entry-level Techs limited HF voice priveleges would be accomplished. Keep the General at 5wpm plus theory, and give Generals current Advanced frequencies to alleviate band crowding. Thus the Extras would keep their exclusive voice and CW band slivers, and still provide incentive for those that want still more CW and SSB 'real estate'. I can't think of a fairer structure, in my opinion."


I think this is a good idea - everybody wins.

I can't speak for others, but all I want is a taste of HF, and this small portion of 10 meters does that. I think that if Techs had a small portion of HF (like this), then some (most?) would have fun with it and REALLY want to upgrade. I think I would. This also gives opportunity for the more experienced operators to groom and teach the new guys. That usually doesn't happen on 2 meters.

For whatever it's worth, this is my opinion.

Don, w4ffg
 
RE: W8KQE's idea  
by KA4KOE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Mike:

I'd say give the man an epee'. If he can parry three nice direct thrusts to the chest, then he can have your radio equipment. More sporting that way, anyway. Besides, the guy's gotta have some chance, however slim it may be.

I need to get back on the strip and get my D'Artagnan skills back up again. I'll teach you all you need to know.

PHILIP
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WB2GOF on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm rushing my manuscript thru my computer as we speak. I am writing a new book for Amateur Radio licensing. It's called Ham Radio for Dummies. If the ARR has it's way, it will only be about one paragraph total. I ought to make a killing!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K4TIN on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Agreed. I am an unapologetic advocate of reasonable requirements for amateur radio licenses. The unbelievably slow present requirement is reasonable.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0RKX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N0FP:

<<Your #2 is as stupid as disowning your mother because she made you eat your carrots. And what does FISTS do for anybody? They just collect and catalog a bunch of numbers.>>

So were not allowed to criticize or question anything the ARRL does or, more importantly, doesn't do? The only real voice any member of the ARRL has is paying or withholding his dues. If the ARRL can FUBAR this decision why should we trust them with anything else?

To blindly follow the biddings of any organization just for the sake of the organization is ridiculous. This decision isn't even about CW. It's about the ARRL seeing a huge opportunity to expand it's membership and kiss the manufacturers asses. It has little to do with the current membership or "The best interests of Amateur Radio".
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4PA on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> How many times has the ARRL ever emailed you back
> when you write them for any reason ????

I don't think I've ever NOT received a reply to an email sent to the ARRL. The trick is to figure out whom the appropriate person is for the concern you have - you be much more likely to get a fast and correct answer that way than if the message has to be forwarded along to someone else. It's easy - just read the QST masthead before sending your message.

Scott W4PA
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of Amat  
by KA4RKT on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
(Carefully and quickly puts on his Nomex flame proof suit)


In Reply to KD2KU's comments:
"As far as "lids" are concerned- they've been with us since Day One. The class of licenses they hold mean nothing...The CB cracks also make me chuckle- many hams today got their start with CB...."

CW is no intelligence/decency test!

The rudest most obscene, nastiest talking folks I have
ever heard in my 25 years+ of hamming and more than that of SWLing seem to be sitting on 75 meters phone, many with Extra calls, many who have been hams for many many years longer than I, and all of which should know better. There are FEW NIGHTS that I can't get on 75 and hear folks cussing, playing music, running folks off "their private freqs" and doing it at full power. I have always wanted to operate on AM phone, but usually when I try to get things together to do so, I end up giving up because of deliberate QRM from folks that resent the "waste of bandwidth" from the AM phone folks. ( The *SAME* folks -- since the median age of hams is inching to past retirement age - that probably refused to get off AM phone and deliberately QRM'ed "those darned "Donald Duck" SSBers that were to be The Death Of Ham Radio As We Know It in the 50's and 60's.) If the new folks act like CBers, there might be an improvement!!

To be fair, the rest of the bands are not as bad, but 75 meters is a zoo a lot of the time.

I have always liked electronics projects and radio listening ( since I was in diapers ) and when I first got genuinely interested in the hobby over 25 years ago, I had several folks that were willing to help show me the ropes, how to operate, what the ham bands should sound like, and were generally helpful and supportive. there were more clubs around during that time too to help new folks get started. But these days at least in my area of the country there seem to be fewer elmers and "new folk friendly" clusters of hams, I can't really get involved much in the ham radio clubs, I work full time, and many of the clubs either meet fairly late, or even more have Morning Coffees because more hams than not seem to be past retirement age and have the luxury of being able to have 9 and 10 AM morning meetings. A lot of newer hams would benefit from Ham Socials and similar things, but there are not that many any more that welcome newer hams and *want* to help them through holding operating or technical training or classes, though many *say* they do.

(At least here in the Nashville/Chattanooga are, even field days are so lightly attended they are just not really that fun any more. Used to be that Field Day was where a lot of hams and their families, a lot of hams of all ages just went and congregated and camped and had fun. The ranks seems to to have gotten older with the younger end not keeping up. But we don't want all those kids in the hobby to mess things up for *US*, right guys!!??)


The closest thing to "professional operators" seem to be the MARS people of the various branches, but its ranks are fewer, and there really is not that much, if any, actual military traffic passed on MARS these days, and has not been since for a decade or so [it's becoming more of a simple support network, they do keep the nets up and folks trained...] - much Military H&W traffic can be handled in the field by simply using a phone, or in some cases a cell phone. ( Several folks at work were issued shared "unit cell phones" while in Iraq, and used them. This seems to be the way many folks in the military know "health and welfare" these days. I know few military personnel under 40 that have even heard of MARS... ) Despite my griping about MARS, it *is* a good procedural training ground for both general operating and net operating. As for CW, I don't even think MARS uses it any more, since the military has done away with it.

([TANGENT] I dare you to find a single regularly operating commercial CW net still out there! The various "Spy Numbers" stations don't count! I am also an HF utility monitor and SWL, and there is precious little left on HF other than the ham bands and a dwindling few shortwave broadcasters, many of the smaller local stations gone away after the Cold War, much of the larger ones cutting way back, and the void taken up by far right radio preachers and conspiracy theorists ranting about The End Times or One World Government. And they want more bandwidth on HF too, like the ham bands if the current crop of hams die out because they petition the ARRL/FCC whoever to not let new folks and new license concepts take hold!!)

[Another Tangent] Military Tech and Comm courses are becoming EVERY BIT as "dumbed down" as ham radio in recent years. Technicians are taught to swap boxes, not gain actual technical knowledge. Much of the repair is done by contractors. Operation now is "press a button" ALE networks for voice on HF - if HF is even used at all - most traffic goes over sat stations these days.
Very little is taught on things like antennas or even propogation theory any more. It's "plug all the boxes in, connect the cables, point antenna" Got many USAF and Army communicator friends, they sound almost as bad as the folks here on *their* services dumbing down -- and THE MILITARY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE PROFESSIONALS.

And guess what folks, most universities hardly touch on hands on electronics in their engineering programs either. My latest haul of test gear over the past few years came from Vanderbilt University - they have done away with even mentioning RF in their programs in anything other than computer simulation. In fact almost all EE programs are theory now, more than they ever were in the old days. A student *CAN* get and EE degree and *never* actually see a real live electronic component. Some "Senior Projects" are doing complex things like designing things on CAD. We apparently have lost the ability to build somewhere along the way or even care where it went. Look at things like the Great Blackout and look at the infrastructure in general. No one knows anything about much of anything anymore because basic tech and science are not being taught!
Folks seem to want to be investment bankers and managers, not tech folks, and the industry and education system has met that need. When we break who will fix us?

But dumbed down as things supposedly may be, how many of the crop of Chronic Complainers Of Dumbing Down do things like homebrew or even bother to do their own repairs and such any more? I do, so I welcomed the dumbing down of academia and what they considered detrius.

No, this "clam bake" is not limited to the ham community, folks.

Commercial certification is not required but in some cases for broadcast. (And I went through the same "You're not as good an engineer as me, because WHEN *I* TOOK THE TEST you had to answer essay questions and design complete systems...etc" speeches when I got my First Class back just before any need for it was to be had.) Only some certification is needed for Maritime services, while the FCC or its testing contractors *may* still give the RadioTelegraph endorsement, I'm not sure it is a requirement any more anywhere. More emphesis now is had on HF voice, and yet more in InMarSat and other more modern methods in the Maritime world.

Technically, it is *all* dumbing down. I work in a professional calibration lab (PMEL). We are no longer even required/allowed to repair most items. Manufacturers like Tektronix and HP that used to support every piece of gear made are now lucky to support it as long as a couple years. It's cheaper for *them* to have your lab buy a new $50K+ piece of gear than it is to keep overhead or hire technical folks with a technical background. ( read last phrase as "overhead" ) But that's just the real world, not a hobby.

"Hey folks... it's a hobby where there is ample room for your own niche. It is what you make it."

Indeed. If you like CW, and I know many that love it and operate no other mode, USE IT! The ITU says it is not really needed as a requirment. Ham Radio is A HOBBY! HAVE FUN WITH IT! Use CW if you want, don't put down folks that don't want to. Use RTTY, use SSTV, use EchoLink if you want. It's *ALL* these things that make up Ham Radio, it's all these things that make us a COMMUNITY that the rest of the world *sometimes* looks at, occasionally when we do some good things like disaster relief, but *especially* when we gripe. Can we put on a better face for the rest of the world though?

"Be happy."

While not bloody likely, this is good advice. *JUST THINK* if the same energy that this bunch of "Angry Old Men Who Resent Change" was put on *HELPING* the new folks learn to *BE* better operators,maybe getting them interested in communications in a way that is more *non-cb* they would not be so angry. But helping folks requires effort and sacrifice, and many folks just don't have time for that. After all, *They Got Theirs* and it's just so much easier to sit back and gripe and moan about the Latest End To Ham Radio As We Know It and how it's going to turn into CB. I guess they wouldn't be happy if they had to find something else to be angry and bitter about, since that takes effort.

Do I sound angry and rambling? Well, yes, I am because of all the vitriol and bitterness that seems to be spewed forth over this issue!! I'm a good patriotic American, and with that I can say that we Americans are *AWFULLY GOOD* at griping. What I see in most of these comments is ANGER, not compromise, not offers of help for the new folks, just Good Old American *When I got MY licence I had to walk uphill both ways in the snow in August, barefoot to the nearest FCC office and I can't stand these new folks because they arent going to have to do that" Some welcoming party the new hams are gonna get when they get on. I wonder if the "new class" know what they will be getting into? Grrrrr.

Ham Radio is a hobby. It's a HOBBY!! Enjoy it? Best you can? Please?


73

Tom Norris
KA4RKT
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ed writes:

"could you offer your views on the points I made in those posts"

Sure Ed, I'll do it again. Just for you.
I'M PROUD TO HAVE CANCELLED MY ARRL MEMBERSHIP.

#1 ARRL's "risky scheme" is a bad idea. Giving people HF priveleges without earning them is a BAD idea. People treat hard earned things with respect. Since HF will be handed to them, most are unlikely to treat HF with the same respect as those that earned it. Plain and simple human nature. 11 meters, here we come.

#2 You say you hate to see people take away resorses (i.e. membership dues) that you would like to use. Well, why would you think we would continue to send $$ when ARRL recommends steps which are detrimental to our interests and favorable to their own? ARRL's proposal will both "dumb down" ham radio and enrich its own treasury with $$ from new members that purchase new publications. For what? So HF can degenerate into 11 meters? ARRL is acting in its own best $$ interests and AGAINST its membership's. Can you say betryal?

#3 Unfortunately, the "one party" system of ham radio resembles the old sovet-style system. We need a second group, the American Ham Association, to compete with the ARRL in the arena for ideas and dues $$. That way, the NBC (Newington Boys Club) will have to think before selling large portions of its membership down the river.

#4 The ARRL has made a calculation that $$ gained from new members will exceed $$ lost through ailenation. Only time will tell. But don't look for me to be buying any more ARRL publications. In fact, I have a shelf of ARRL publications I'm going to sell at the next hamfest, just to deprive the ARRL of the sales!

#5 ARRL boycott? You bet! OBVIOUSLY, the only language the ARRL understands is $$. I have spoken with mine - CANCELLING my ARRL membership and boycotting ARRL publications. Who will join me? Watch and see. Listen for me and others on the air promoting the boycott.

#6 Few people know that a REQUIREMENT for ARRL club affiliation is that if their club disbands, that equipment must be sold and the $$ FORFITED TO THE ARRL. Now if this isn't revealing, I don't know what is.


Jon
W9WHE
Proud to have cancelled my ARRL membership!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC2LSU on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Finally a breath of fresh air!!

I though that all of ya negitive whining geezers where already up in CW heaven -- or have ya all just been too busy getting all your ills ranging from shingles, to prostate cancer cured (yes you have all discused em on HF). If your at the top, stay happy (this includes the top band 160) and keep your mouth shut; your not losing anything as the future advances upon you.

If you keep whining about how anything new, different, or dumbed down is bad; then FCC may finally wake up and realize that the HOBBYISTS who operate radio stations dont need more than a 10 meter band, right next to the CB act alikes, to conduct simulated emergency nets, and gripe to each other about how bad amature radio has become.

There are many hams who dont care for electronics, and other's who want to learn all about it. We shouldent force someone to have to know more than very basic electrical principals if they have no desire to build/repair their own equipment. Otherwise how can the cronicly unemployed, but technically proficent hams start companies that sell ham radio related merchandise to us
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ARRL's new slogans:

Give is money and get your HF for free!

Wine, complain, cry, & stamp your feet and we will give you whatever you want!



 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ARRL's new slogans:

Give us money and get your HF for free!

Wine, complain, cry, & stamp your feet and we will give you whatever you want!



 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I aggree with this post, only make tech and tech plus take written exam only, no code.



RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code- Reply
by AD6WL on January 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I kind of like the idea. I would prefer three things different.

1.) They should give the new Novice privileges to current Techs, Tech+ and Novices.

2.) Current Techs, Tech+ and Novices should have to take the element 3 to upgrade to General.

3.) Current Techs should have to pass element 1 for General class license.

The new Novice class license seems to have a very good amount of HF privileges on the phone, digital and CW portions of the band. That is why element 1 should be retained for General.

Overall the ARRL has the right idea with the exception of the above-mentioned changes. But the current Techs should definitely not be upgraded to General without passing element 3.

My final though is that I wonder what groups like NCI and NCVEC think of the ARRL proposal.

73, Jim
AD6WL

 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N4QX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:

"Few people know that a REQUIREMENT for ARRL club affiliation is that if their club disbands, that equipment must be sold and the $$ FORFITED TO THE ARRL. Now if this isn't revealing, I don't know what is."

Please provide a citation to ARRL club affiliation requirements to back this assertion.

You'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath, because your assertion is patently untrue.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AA8SH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks to Eham for providing a place for everyone to vent.

Boys, it's over! The issue of an HF code requirement has long since been settled by the ITU. Nations worldwide have responded by removing the requirement from their respective regulations and have since moved on. Our own FCC is inconsequential and will merely do likewise. The ARRL is irrelevant in this issue.

Actually the ARRL is worse than irrelevant, because it has deluded its membership into believing that they have a say in this issue, even at this late date, when in reality they do not. How uniquely American (and a bit naive) it is to believe that our opinions really matter at all! For regardless of what you or I think, CW will soon be completely removed from the testing structure.

Not to worry! Even though it's no longer required, CW OPS will continue to enjoy CW from now on. Phone OPS will not. BCNU Clark
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Breaker, Breaker, breaker 20 meters, how I am I makin the trip?

10-4 good buddy your hittim me with a 9 pounder.

Only S9, let me kick in the 100000 Watt AFTER-BURNER!

ahhhh, much better good buddy, loud and clear! By the way I do not even own a radio, I am getting you on my CD player!!

So Seventy thirds and what not!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
How 'boucha dare good buddy. Ya gotcha ears on? Ya copy dis Tower of Power base station? We be breakin 'n stoodin bye! Aye! Dat be a negatory copy dare. Trees dare. Trees and bushes! We be 10-7. We be down. We be clear! We be outta here!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah thats the way to do it.

Money for nothing and the bands for free!


CHORUS: I WANT MY, I WANT MY, I WANT MY HAM-CB!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I WANT MY HAM TV! I WANT MY FREE CB! MONEY FOR NOTHING AND THE CB'S FREE.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N4QX writes:
"Please provide a citation to ARRL club affiliation requirements to back this assertion"

I'll be glads to:
Pull out the official copy of your afilliated club's bylaws. Read for yourself. It would not be there but for ARRL's insistence.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W8VOM wrote:

"I have a right to express my opinion on their proposal just like everyone else. When you attacked me on a "personal level"I won the debate!"

Congrats. You have once again deceived yourself into thinking you won something. You are a loser Nick. You lost your voice when you withheld your dues. You single handedly are attempting to damage and destroy the ARRL. I'm certain the ARRL gives a rip about your $36. And I'm equally certain they could care less about your 'opinion' on the CW thing. In case you haven't noticed, your opportunity to respond as a member is long past. It is history. And you never made your opinions known to anybody but pig farmers on 75M and the 86 people that read eHam. You told the wrong people Nick. You should have talked to your Director. Oh, I forget, you have no director because you have no voice.

Nick continues:

"In my view,some of the ARRL membership have a Religious attitude towards the ARRL and accept everything they pontificate to the membership! I am not "alone" in my viewpoint and many of my fellow amateurs see flaws in this proposal. The ARRL has done many good things over the years but again...I have a right to voice my opposition to this proposal and I will continue to do so. I do not have a Religious admiration for the ARRL,I remain opposed to the proposal. Put away your swords before you impale yourselves.Understand this... we all have a right to our opinions! "

You are correct again Nick. You can have an opinion. And you can spread lies without retribution. Opinions are great. Fabricated lies are not. I feel obligated to step in and point out your lack of character in case those less informed souls actually read your vile posts and become pursuaded to join your cult. And anybody so stupid as to 'worship' the ARRL is in need of professional help. If you know of such a person, perhaps you could do them a favor and recommend a good Doctor to help them. I believe you can find a good referral under "exorcist" in the yellow pages.

Read your own words Nick "The ARRL has done many good things over the years..." You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. By withholding your dues, you are wasting your vote. You have no voice. You are just another blithering idiot on 75M spewing guile and disgust for an organization that is dedicated to preserve your ability to do so. Go figure...
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K2GW on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>How 'boucha dare good buddy. Ya gotcha ears on? Ya copy dis Tower of Power base station? We be breakin 'n stoodin bye! Aye! Dat be a negatory copy dare. Trees dare. Trees and bushes! We be 10-7. We be down. We be clear! We be outta here!

Actually that CB lingo sounds much more like existing 75 Meter Phone operations with folks who already passed a CW test much more than two meters with Techs who haven't!

Let's move on from silly gut reactions and objectively think about how to ensure the viability and expansion of the Amateur service in the twenty-first century. The current system results in 50% of all new Technician licensees staying at that beginning level. Not exactly the way to promote growth and learning in the service.

73

Gary, K2GW
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"The current system results in 50% of all new Technician licensees staying at that beginning level. Not exactly the way to promote growth and learning in the service."

So just keep lowering the bar. We can achieve 100% growth rate if we dumb down the requirements enough. In effect that is exactly what grandfathering Techs up to General does. Why not eliminate testing altogether? That will really increase our numbers. Fill out the app, sign it (those signing with an "X" need two witnesses) and enclose a $12 check. Make sure you check the box that says that you've read and understand Part 97. Also make sure you check the other box that says "I promise to learn something about radio". New callsign system:
First, middle and last initial with your zip code.

Ten-four good buddy?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just might ELMER a toothless Crackhead, just to make a point!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I might elmer a crackless tooth-head.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I might ELMER a HAM SANDWICH!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It that ham sandwich has the incentive and brains to learn CW, I'm all for it.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Just stay away from turkey sandwiches. Turkeys are too stupid to learn code.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WR8D on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I hate that it has come to this to make so many of you finally realize that you have been "sold out". I saw this coming 10 years ago. Each time i have spoken out i always get. The fcc did this or that and the arrl had nothing to do with it. "Bull Crap" Its all been about lowering the standards and getting more membership for the arrl. Way to go up there fellas. My hat is also off to those of you who blindly after the facts support such an organization. "SHEEP"

You ask what about bpl..don't worry that would undo all that they have achieved. You can bet your bottom dollar nothing will happen to amateur radio that will decrease their endorsements.

It really scares the crap out of me to think at one time i was about to become a life member.

Glad i dropped out several years ago.

73
John WR8D

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Why should I hold my HAM SANDWICH to higher than ARRL
standards!

Got to go to work. Later

73 MIKE
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4CLM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To: Mr David Sumner K1ZZ
CC: All ARRL Directors

Re: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free HF Access
See: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/

"We're trying to recapture the magic of the old Novice license, but in a manner that's appropriate for the 21st century."


Dear Mr. Sumner,
I an attempt to be brief, I will ask you why have a license at all!
If you want to recapture the magic of the OLD NOVICE LICENSE, then make people have a goal to work for instead of GIVING it all away. Limit the new novice to 10 meters and above as it was before.
You guys have long ago thrown out the baby with the bath water in regards to the CW issue, all you're
doing now is burning down the remainder of the house. From novice to extra, each progressive license
upgrade achieved should require the licensee to do EXTRA work to gain EXTRA privileges and
eventually become that "Extra" class operator.

The way it is now amateur radio licensing and amateur radio itself is a joke!
With all of today's modern communications via satellite and internet technologies it's easy to understand why the "Magic" of world wide communications has long ago gone, now by giving away the spectrum it is not going to bring that magic back or encourage new interest. The "Magic & Pioneering" of amateur radio has been supplemented by throw away radio technologies and the dumbing down of this once proud endeavor.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not making an issue of defending C.W. here, at this point with five words
per-minute C.W. the code is not the issue. It's a matter of a once proud discipline and the self respect
one gained by having achieved a license class by accomplishing something that was worth working for.
Thereby obtaining suitable license privileges which equates to that EXTRA effort put forth.
Under your proposal there is no longer a ladder of success for anyone to climb. Where is the incentive
to be in amateur radio when there is nothing else to achieve!

Personally speaking, I'm to the point now after 33 years of being licensed, that I'm almost ashamed to
tell anyone that I am a licensed amateur. I just can't imagine the bands getting any more crowed or
worse then currently are. What will it be like after you open the H.F. floodgates to all the technician operators currently on two meters and future novices. Can you say BREAK 19!!
Carol L. Maher, W4CLM
ARRL Member

In agreement with me on this matter,
W4JAR Tom
KC4BDS Sonny
KD8IO Paul
KB4GYT Paul


 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
You might be interested in the emails I sent and got back from some one at ARRL HQ. Some one here said the ARRL was in it for the money, well this just proves it. I would also encourage everyone to email and write the ARRL and ask them to publish the "proprietary" survey to lend some credibility to there proposal.
73,
Bill


=====================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: William Albert
To: awextra
Subject: ARRL Licensing proposal


I didn’t know where to send this and your address was at the bottom.



This is a basically good proposal. However, I must say that to give the Tech and Tech plus classes a FREE upgrade is dead wrong! I also have a problem with General being a “no code” class. This is just plain wrong! To try and pacify The upper classes with more band width is patronizing them. I do like the idea of the “Novice” class having limited code (I ment to add "Voice" also,and forgot) privileges on HF, however. This will be a great way to encourage the “newbie” to get into a higher class.



There is much speculation that the ARRL has made this recommendation to help swell it’s ranks and thereby swelling it’s pocketbook as well. It’s hard to think otherwise. I think you should do some real polling of your members to find out what they really think on this proposal.



KD5UJX




Hi, William

>There is much speculation that the ARRL has made this recommendation to help swell it’s ranks and thereby swelling it’s pocketbook as well. It’s hard to think otherwise.

That's not the case, but if that were a result, I'd be hard put to consider that a bad thing. "ARRL--the national association for Amateur Radio" means just that. We're the only voice for the US Amateur Service in DC and on the international level. This is a far-from-wealthy organization. A stronger ARRL would benefit Amateur Radio in general. (And in like fashion, while the ham radio industry was not an influence on developing the Board's proposal, the fact that it might stand to benefit financially--down the road, in any case--would be a positive economic consequence. A more robust ham radio industry means lower costs for equipment and better selection. Have you noticed that the selection of amateur gear has narrowed considerably in the past several years?)

I understand your concern regarding what you're calling "a free upgrade," but if you're going to simplify the system, at some point you have to go back to a single test, which is how it was for quite a while. The Tech and General aren't all that far apart. In the past, Extras had to take a 100-question test (and draw schematics and be Generals for two years and pass a 20 WPM code test), but that's no longer the case. We aren't suggesting that "newer" Extras go back for do-overs.

While there was no "membership survey" as such, the Board members have been collecting comments and suggestions from members for some time now regarding the future direction of the US amateur licensing system. In addition, the Board had the advantage of having access to our most recent periodic scientific survey (conducted by an outside contractor) of the amateur community--the results of which are, unfortunately, proprietary and not made public.

We appreciate your interest and input. Be sure to express your comments to the FCC when our petition goes on public notice.

73, Rick N1RL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Lindquist, N1RL
Senior News Editor
ARRL--The National Association for Amateur Radio
860-594-0222
n1rl@arrl.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4CLM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
From ARRL CEO David Sumner K1ZZ
------------------

Carol, let me begin by addressing your statement, "Where is the incentive to be in amateur radio when there is nothing else to achieve!" I have been licensed for more than 41 years, more than 38 of them as Extra Class. Passing the Extra in 1965 involved a 100-question written exam, including drawing 10 diagrams, and passing both receiving and sending tests at 20 wpm (the five-minute receiving test required one minute of error-free copy). The additional privileges one earned by doing this, versus having a Conditional license (with the exam administered by one General licensee), were exactly zero. By your reasoning, I guess I should have just quit amateur radio at that point since there was nothing left to achieve.

The point, of course, is that the license is not an end in itself. It's a means to an end.

You say, "From novice to extra, each progressive license upgrade achieved should require the licensee to do EXTRA work to gain EXTRA privileges and eventually become that 'Extra' class operator." That's exactly what the Board's proposal does. In particular, there is no change proposed in the requirements for the Extra class, contrary to the views of those who want the Morse requirement dropped for all classes of license. I assume you support at least this part of the Board's proposal.

Finally, the Novice has never been limited to ten meters and above. The "old" Novice included 80, 40, and 15 meter privileges and those bands are still there, although they are woefully underutilized. Go back far enough and you'll find that the Novice license included two-meter privileges.

73,
David Sumner, K1ZZ

P.S. After all these years I'm still finding there is magic in radio communication. For me a recent "magic moment" came last summer with my first rain scatter QSO on 10 GHz. Actually experiencing bouncing a 1/4-watt signal off a rain cloud to communicate with another amateur station far beyond the horizon was almost as exciting as the first time someone actually answered me (after several days of trying) when I was a Novice. There are plenty of other "magic moments" if you look for them.

 
My Reply to ARRL CEO David Sumner K1ZZ  
by W4CLM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
January 21, 2004
To: Mr. David Sumner K1ZZ
CC: All ARRL Directors

Re: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free HF Access

Dear Dave,
Thank You for taking the time to reply to my email. This will be my last time I write to you
about this issue, so do with it as you please because I believe the League is going
to do as they please regardless of how I and so many other feel on the issues.

Please allow me to clarify something for you. I was first licensed in 1971 with my ((WN)) novice call.
Now maybe I missed something along the way in my youth, but I though the idea of incentive licensing
was to learn something, teach new skills and upgrade one's understanding of basic electronics, electricity
radio and introductory engineering. So that is what I tried to do in my life. I now hold two degrees in electronics,
I once held my First Class Radio Telephone License (Thanks Deregulation!)
now a GMDSS maintainers permit and I still hold a Second Class Radio telegraph license.
So please don't lecture me or try to impress me with the fact that you drew 10 questions on your exam
by hand back in 1965. I too passed the 20 WPM for my Extra in 1976 and the same for my
commercial telegraph license and I still sail on that license now. I also drew at least 15 or so questions
by hand for my telegraph license in 1977. Yes the commercial telegraph license was the last to
abandon the drawing process in examinations. But who cares, it's all irrelevant now, isn't it.
No body is asking for this sort of in-depth understanding to be implemented into the
amateur radio examinations especially at a novice level.
I'm one of a hand full of commercial radio operators left in this country.
So I fully understand the license structure as it previously stood for the last 40 years,
so there is no need to further clarify to me the old CW privileges for the novice license as it once stood.
I'm a product of incentive licensing as it was intended work from the start and it worked as intended.
Through that process I learned something and I did not start this journey through life by shooting my mouth off
on HF phone. Your proposal in giving away large sections of the 80 / 40 / 15 meter phone bands as such
teaches nothing except that if people scream long enough, societal pressure will eventually give you
what you want for free, and the board's recommendation of a 25 question novice exam where all you
need do is memorize a hand full of questions and answers is not an exam at all and might as well be
FREE.

If indeed the conditional class license was a fraud in your time, then I'm sorry.
Someone should have fixed it at the time. However, it could not have been any more of a fraud
then the Doctor's permit for C.W. was in the recent past.
Due to the fact the C.W. is basically a irrelevant issue today, the issue I believe at hand is not CW, the issue
is the farming out the HF bands for Novice VOICE privileges. Please don't correct me again on this because
the NOVICE in recent years past was authorized 10 meter phone privileges. Because ITU regulations
allowed for phone operation below 30 Mhz for those who could show a minimal ability with C.W. at one time.
Novices were granted 10 meter phone privileges. You are however right on one thing,
they seldom used the C.W. portion of the bands as you stated.
So all the new licensees, novice (and technicians) flocked to 10 meter phone and two meter phone
and didn't use the C.W. band. I specifically tried not to make reference to C.W. in my previous Email
to the league so that it would not be the focus of the issue.

However since you brought it up, as far as the boards proposal to keep 5 WPM C.W. for the Extra,
What a JOKE. I personally don't care what you or anyone does with C.W. anymore.
Having worked as a professional ships communications officer, ((Ships Radio Telegrapher officer))
I'll be the first one to tell you that C.W. is an archaic mode of communication.
But you completely missed the point I was making in the entire email I wrote about the once proud
tradition of having held an amateur license. It's no different then teaching a Merchant Mariner (Cadet) how
to use a sextant in this modern age of Global Positioning Satellites for navigational purposes.
Let me put it to you in simpler terms.
Something worth having such as an amateur license or a commercial
license is something that should be worth working for. If it's not worth
working for then it's not appreciated, that goes for HF phone privileges.
If it's not appreciated then why have a license exam at all.
The commission may as well just start collecting $20 dollars per head and issuing call signs
like KDW2975 and we may as well call it all legalized HF~CB. NO body ever said the NOVICE license
was an end to itself. It's a starting point and on that we both agree. But I can tell you this much,
as a Novice I knew more then most generals and advanced class amateur operators today.
We at least knew what Ohms Law was and how to calculate the input power to my final amplifier stage.
I could identify the most basic of components and I knew enough not to use a CB handle on the two meter
phone band as I've heard others do in recent years. Today your average Advanced class and General Class
operator can't tell you what the difference is from input power to the final and output power to the antenna
or identify the simplest of semiconductor devices or does he care.

So Dave, you see I believe I fully understand the situation. I also believe the League and the board of directors is
hell bent on giving away as much of the spectrum as possible while bolstering the number of licensed amateurs in
this country and in turn I'm sure Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom and the other radio manufacturers around the world
will thank you. I personally believe you are taking the path of least resistance and a bureaucratic stand point
on this. For someone who has been licensed since 1965, I would have expected more from you and the board.
There are many, many people who feel as I do on this issue.

Assuming this is a proposal, like other proposals from my maritime union, various bureaucratic
organizations I have dealt with throughout my life and previous proposals from the ARRL
it only leads me to believe that it may as well already be written in stone.
I fully believe that you will regret this, lets hope ~ I'm wrong. Since it human nature to want more and
more, I can only assume we will hear our 100 watt novices stations running 600 watts,
we are likely to hear more jamming across the spectrum, whistle blowing in the microphones,
AUDIO~AUDIO~AUDIO testing and arguing over who was on the frequency first.
Now that we have minimalized the CW and testing requirement to the point where just
about any moron can obtain a license, I'm just wonder what else if anything will there be left for you
and your associates to give away in the future after this proposal passes.

I'm afraid your plan to save amateur radio from extinction while attempting to bring young
individuals into this once proud endeavor will only be met by the remainder of old men and truckers
from eleven meters who were too lazy to pick up a book and learn something twenty years ago.
Then we can all thank you and the ARRL for their fine performance in 2004 for trying to fix something
that wasn't broken. The way I see it, it's a real shame the League with it's honorable past
has now become nothing more then a business like any other business and apparently
has worn out it's usefulness.

A good friend of mine wrote me on this matter today and I
could not have said it any better, so in closing I will put his comment here.
--------------
The ARRL and the FCC have apparently decided that people aren't as
intelligent as they were and are incapable of similar achievement. I think
this and similar proposals that lower the bar are insulting, degrading and
condescending.
------------

Again, Thank you for your time and Email reply.
Regards and 73
Carol L. Maher
W4CLM

 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N3EVL on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ said "...Well, E-X-C-U-S-E M-E! I forgot that that there are some Extras that want to give away the key to the city. Press conference is at 8:00 PM EDT on September 21, 2009. I will make a formal apology then. Until then, I guess I will have to use the disclaimer "except N3EVL"..."


Whether my views on this matter are shared or I am in a minority of one, I have no wish to be included in your blanket generalizations. Please enact your disclaimer.

Keys to the city? -- not!

Pete
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AD5X on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To W9WHE:

I went through the process of ARRL club affiliation several years ago for my company club. There was certainly no suggestion at all about selling equipment and giving the money to the ARRL if the club folded. And if you look at the ARRL-suggested club constitution on their web-page, you'll see there is no such thing there. I also just checked the Constitution and By-laws of another ARRL-affiliated club in my area and it says nothing about selling equipment and giving the money to the ARRL.

If your by-laws say this, then the folks who wrote your by-laws are the ones to blame, as are the club members who voted to accept these by-laws.

Phil - AD5X
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4CLM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I don't always agree with the ARRL but they are the only game in town. Everything else is just a magazine subscription.. Craig - N7UQA


Craig,
So was Saddam Hussein, but it didn't make it right
De W4CLM
Carol Maher
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K0RGR on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think some folks better hope Elmer doesn't find his Wouff Hong. For you newbies out there, the Wouff Hong was an ancient torture device, too terrible to describe, used by "The Old Man" to treat more stubborn cases of obnoxious behavior on the ham bands.
There's a complete description and photo here:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/history.html#hong

Yes, there's a lack of training out there for people new to HF, and you can be assured, it will be needed. Most Techs don't know phonetics - not needed much on 2 meter FM. That will be an initial shock. I do think the League should increase the dues a little bit and include a copy of the Operating Manual with each new membership or renewal. Even a quick read of that book will improve most people's on-air behavior.

There really are some Extras out there that sound like 27 MHz. jockeys, and I know some who've been hams for decades. We will need to be vigilant to keep them from multiplying.

No ARRL is not my religion. It's a non-profit corporation that happens to do many things I really appreciate. It's not a democracy. Is the NRA a democracy? Is AOPA? I believe that the directors have recomended changes that they sincerely feel are in the best interests of ham radio as a whole, based on a reasonable effort to ascertain input from the membership and others.

According to their petition, Nancy Kott is the North American Director of FISTS. She is also the editor of WorldRadio, no? Have any pro-ARRL proposal folks dropped their subscription to WorldRadio? I hope not, because I am a subscriber and I don't think we have enough ham magazines anymore, and I certainly don't intend to drop my subscription. But isn't this the kind of destructive spiral we get into when we take our marbles and go home?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> I went through the process of ARRL club affiliation
> several years ago for my company club. There was
> certainly no suggestion at all about selling
> equipment and giving the money to the ARRL if the
> club folded. And if you look at the ARRL-suggested
> club constitution on their web-page, you'll see
> there is no such thing there. I also just checked
> the Constitution and By-laws of another ARRL
> -affiliated club in my area and it says nothing
> about selling equipment and giving the money to the
> ARRL.

I believe at least in some states, if a not-for-profit entity dissolves, it may have to disburse its assets to other not-for-profit entities. These could be charities, government entities, Salvation Army, Red Cross, churches, not-for-profits, etc.

I would suggest that for a radio club, ARRL may be an ideal place to designate to recieve such funds, but I would much rather see the club continue in some way, if possible.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> According to their petition, Nancy Kott is the North
> American Director of FISTS. She is also the editor
> of WorldRadio, no? Have any pro-ARRL proposal folks
> dropped their subscription to WorldRadio? I hope
> not, because I am a subscriber and I don't think we
> have enough ham magazines anymore, and I certainly
> don't intend to drop my subscription. But isn't this
> the kind of destructive spiral we get into when we
> take our marbles and go home?

When it comes to ARRL, Nancy did just that a few years back. At Dayton one year, as I walked over to the FISTS booth to say hello, I saw her "Former ARRL Member" button and just walked to the next booth.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W8VOM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Again...for (some) members (sheep) the ARRL is like a Religion! They refuse to question anything the League pontificates. Free thinking people are always attacked for voicing their viepoint. If you have had a "Religious" experiance with the ARRL and you are one of their SHEEP...that is your right! I also have a right to voice my objection to this proposal. If that be blasphemy against your "Religious like" adoration of the ARRL,so be it. Some members are so into ARRL "Doctrine" they will not see my point. My comments hit home with these people! Yes for some..the ARRL is their Religion! It is a free country,I can choose to voice my opposition to their Dogma. You can choose to folow them! I respect your right to do this all I ask is that my right to object to their proposal be upheld.Every time I get a personal attack for expressing my opinion...I know that it reached it's mark! What a great country we live in. We can choose to belong to an organization or not to belong.The price I pay for voicing my opinion on that organization is well worth it!!! I have been attacked on a personal level for my views on their policy. That is fine with me if it gets you to examine the possibility that the ARRL has become like a religion to you. Flame On! God I love this country but yes...I sometimes question ARRL policy and so should you! God bless and have a very nice day. W8VOM
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N3EVL on January 22, 2004:
"AG4RQ said "...Well, E-X-C-U-S-E M-E! I forgot that that there are some Extras that want to give away the key to the city. Press conference is at 8:00 PM EDT on September 21, 2009. I will make a formal apology then. Until then, I guess I will have to use the disclaimer "except N3EVL"..."


Whether my views on this matter are shared or I am in a minority of one, I have no wish to be included in your blanket generalizations. Please enact your disclaimer.

Keys to the city? -- not!"

Pete, this is a free country. Are you trying to squelch my freedom of speech? If you don't like it, or the way we do other things here in the States (such as code testing), go home!
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KC9FAC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Just wondering what organization all those
who are quitting the ARRL will join instead.

Maybe K1MAN and his so-called AARA?
HA!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KB1HQH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As a Tech studying for my General license, I must say that the test questions are not that different from those for tech licenses.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KD2KU on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
So- we get to reality-

The definition of "amateur":

(By the way- if you enter the word "Amateur" into the Google search engine the first thing that pops up is the ARRL)

1. [n] someone who pursues a study or sport as a pastime
2. [n] does not play for pay
3. [adj] engaged in as a pastime; "an amateur painter"; "gained valuable experience in amateur theatricals"; "recreational golfers"; "reading matter that is both recreational and mentally stimulating"; "unpaid extras in the documentary"
4. [adj] lacking professional skill or expertise; "a very amateurish job"; "inexpert but conscientious efforts"; "an unskilled painting"

Synonyms: amateurish, inexpert, nonprofessional, recreational, unpaid, unprofessional, unskilled

Antonyms: pro, professional
----------------------

Get the picture? Save a few who received a formal education in radio and gained experience working in the field you are generally "amateurs"- unskilled and inexperienced.

(Ouch! Hurts doesn't it?) :-)

Oh yeah... some of you are "experts". You can go wrap yourself up in that. (ego)

Sitting at the top of this heap is the ARRL. The ARRL of today is NOT the ARRL of yesteryear. Times change. We all change... some for the better... some obviously for the worse.

Electronic equipment today is totally different. Changing a tube, replacing caps, resistors, rarely happens anymore. Some components are as small as the period at the end of this sentence. Few hams are capable of doing little more than packing and shipping a rig off to the maker for repair.

So, there you sit- with your ham ticket on the wall, having passed a rudimentary "technical" exam and maybe a CW exam. So, what does that make you? An "amateur". Think about that before you go off ranting and raving thinking you are the opposite.

The old licensing schemes were a mess. All that accomplished was to create a class society of inflated egos. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

CW- that was the beginning. It was required- since it was the only means of using radio for communications. New modes came along. Times change. Most of the World has seen fit to dismiss it as a requirement for a ham license. It never reflected any technical knowledge- nor intelligence. It was a basic means of communications and we've progressed beyond that. The number of hams who actually use CW is minuscule. If it hangs on it's simply by nostalgia. And that's OK too.

I don't understand the anti-ARRL ravings. No one is perfect. Mistakes have been made. Someone has to represent amateur radio. That takes money- as does everything else we face today. $39 a year? You can't get a decent meal for two these days for that.

OK- let's suppose the ARRL folded tomorrow. Think long and hard about that. Think about the absolute absurdity of BPL and the fact that the FCC openly raved about it. Imagine turning on your receiver and hearing nothing but garbage. Go on the air- wipe the BPL customers out and you'd be facing an army of people trying to burn your house down.

How it will turn out in the end one can only guess but it makes sense to have only three classes. A Beginner- a General use- an "Extra" to entice innovation and invention with a place to do it. That is all we need.

Yes, hams would like to consider themselves much more than the definition of "amateur". The best way to approach that is by looking at the greater issue- the declining number of hams and the problems we face in keeping our spectrum in these days of greedy spectrum grabbing and BPL. Those people see us as "amateurs" in every sense of the definition.

Like it or not the ARRL is the only show in town when it comes to trying to preserve ham radio.

It would be self-defeating not to support the League- EVEN if you disagree with some of the issues. It's like shooting yourself in the foot. It's dumb. It's stupid. Generally, we always have to compromise in one way or another for the greater good.

From what I have read here you'd think there was an evil society hiding in a back room at the ARRL HQ... with mystic symbols and chanting in the dark hours. For those who think that I think they should join that nut-ball and head for Urantia.

Cheers!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W3JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE:

I am a member of two clubs that are affliated with the ARRL. I just today verfied that with the League. I have also just reread both clubs' by-laws. Neither club's assests pass to the ARRL upon dissolution. The assets go to other enities with the principal beneficiary being the Foundation for Amateur Radio.

73 de W3JJH
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K2IY on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Open QST from Front Cover and Back Cover

1) Open QST and look at the first six pages and last six pages of the magazine. These are known as the Prime Ad pages in a Magazine since they are most viewed (and most expensive to advertise on.) The pages are covered with ads for mobile radios, mobile antennas and handheld "personal" radios.

2) Read ARRL "New License Proposal"

3) Explain relationship between steps 1 and 2 above.

4) Expalain future of Ham Radio.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC2JFS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good day OLD MEN,
When I was 11 yrs old I enjoyed staying up late on the weekends and summers and marveled in the excitement of circling-off different cities on the map that I worked on CB. I did not have to pass an exam, but I did have to sign up for a license. I was overjoyed when it came in the mail and hung it proudly near my station. That hobby came and passed as girls, school, college, and cars took precedence. It wasn't till September 11, 2001 that my interest was peaked again. During that crisis I ran to Radio Shack and bought a scanner so I could listen to the rescue and relief operations as they took place. After that simmered down, I started listen to the HAM bands and the bug (no pun intended) was again ignited. One day I ran out and bought the Tech book and crammed for three hours and passed the exam the next day. Soon I was on the air enjoying my new found privilages. I meet some very nice people in this hobby and some not so nice. However, the magic of being on the air brought back those fond memories in my youth. I have bought books about our HOBBY and have learned something new everyday. However, I really don't have much interest in CW. Does this make me less of a person? Does it mean I am not smart enough to comprehend the basic priciples of the hobby and good operating procedure? I don't think so, but there are many people out there that would try to make me believe otherwise. I am very secure about my intelligence level and can ponder philosophical questions with the best of them. Learning something does not make you a better person or operator, it's the application, of the knowledge, and ethics of the person that makes a good operator.

I agree that current Techs should have to take a written exam to increase thier privilages. However, the ARRL should be applauded in its forward thinking and given some slack. I applaud all "heavy" Extras on their accomplishments, they deserve it! But, it doesn't make anyone else less of an operator. I have taken the General and Extra exams on E-Ham and have passed more times than not without even studying!! Should that be viewed less of an accomplishment than if I studied the material for three months?

Let's bring back the magic of the hobby. Remember your first QSO and help others enjoy the fond memories you hold.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<Carol L. Maher W4CLM>>

May I say that I have NEVER seen a better "dressing down" than the one you gave K1ZZ. Well done! Your points are well thought out. Gave me much to ponder.

73
KD5UJX
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N3EVL on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Pete, this is a free country. Are you trying to squelch my freedom of speech? If you don't like it, or the way we do other things here in the States (such as code testing), go home!

AG4RQ:

Nope, you and I are both entitled to our views and certainly have the freedom to express them here - my gripe was purely based on the broadness of brush that you used in making your point. I am here by choice and reserve my right to speak up and point out innaccuracies in statements made in public forums that might give the impression that, in this instance, "all" code-tested hams feel as you do. As you said, it is at least all-1;)

73, Pete
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Geez whizz by golly. Weall good buddies are movin from ch. 6 upper cb to thw new cb all band all mode bookuuu watts radio. Tans to y'all 44's Macon, GA.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Just wondering what organization all those
> who are quitting the ARRL will join instead.

Or will they hope and expect that ARRL will continue to do the things that will benefit them, so they can stand on the high moral ground and still know that they can receive all the benefits.

I have to wonder, will those that quit never go to the ARRL web page for anything? Will they never ask a friend for a copy of a QST article? If their local club reposts the ARRL Letter, will they not read it because their principles won't let them derive benefit from an organization they are "proud" not to support? If the ARRL files comments on an FCC filing that could benefit them, will they contact the FCC and say that it is okay if the industy ARRL says might cause them harm is allowed to operate on their street? Will they throw away their old QSTs so they won't derive any benefit there? Will they throw away any ARRL awards they have, instead of leaving them on their shack as bragging rights? Will they throw away their ARRL publications? If their club is ARRL affliated, will they stop going to meetings because ARRL have provided some support for the club? If their club does Field Day, will they boycott it now because it is an ARRL sponsored event? Will they not make QSOs in the next ARRL DX contest? The list goes on, and those are the more direct things. Will they take every possible step to make sure that they don't receive any of the indirect benefit from those things that ARRL will continue to do for amateur radio?

Some have publically taken the high moral ground here, and I think it only fair to find out just how high that moral ground is.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N3EVL on January 22, 2004:
"Nope, you and I are both entitled to our views and certainly have the freedom to express them here - my gripe was purely based on the broadness of brush that you used in making your point. I am here by choice and reserve my right to speak up and point out innaccuracies in statements made in public forums that might give the impression that, in this instance, "all" code-tested hams feel as you do. As you said, it is at least all-1;)"

So, if you disagree with what I have to say, then a mere reply should suffice. I shouldn't have to make any disclaimers when I post. If you disagree, say so. Post a reply. Like I said, its a free country. We are all entitled to our opinions. And all of us have been certainly exercising that right over the past few days!

No, obviously not all code-tested hams feel the same way I do. You're not the only one who wants the code requirement dropped. But I think it would be safe to say that the majority feel as I do. If they don't, its a free country. They're entitled to their opinions, just like I am.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WD0BCX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
THIS IS AN INSULT TO ALL TRUE AMATEURS !

Our club here is in the process of rebuilding, a great number of the old timers have passed. Some of us are returning from a period of inactivity because of other activities or burn out.

At the last meeting it was brought up that MAYBE we should afilliate with the ARRL again.

NOT HELL NO !!!

The ARRL is just throwing away ham radio like the schools have been throwing away education. IF JONNIE CAN'T READ, PASS HIM ANYWAY, YOU DON'T WANT TO HURT HIS FEELINGS!!!

If you don't want to buckle down and learn 13 or 20 word a minute code we will GIVE you a license.

Well folks its happened, or soon will.

In closing : "10-4 GOOD BUDDY catch you on 20 and then we'll go to DOGGERS 20 for come coffee. All the good numbers to you and catch you on the flipflop."

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K8JX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
How far we've gone...I only have two comments to make.

1. We all hear about BPL. But why is it, nobody seems to object about those initials being used, when they rightfully represent Brass Pounders League?

2. We should all take the time and personally Thank the GREAT folks at E-HAM for providing this forum.
Support them. I will.
Now I'll shut up. K8JX
 
RE: My Reply to ARRL CEO David Sumner K1ZZ  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4CLM belched at Dave-K1ZZ:

"I'm a product of incentive licensing as it was intended work from the start and it worked as intended... I personally don't care what you or anyone does with C.W. anymore...For someone who has been licensed since 1965, I would have expected more from you and the board. There are many, many people who feel as I do on this issue."

Carol
As is apparent from this thread. The same is true of devotees to Sadam Hussein. There are people who applauded 9/11 and celebrated with parties. So your point would be what?

Having read your post, I'm not sure what you said since you contradicted yourself about 8 times. Are you for CW or against it? Should there be incentive licensing or not? It's obvious you are not happy, although you do not suggest what should have been done. And your timing is just terrible. You are a bit late aren't you? It seems to me that the period for discussion on the topic ended last week. Where were you in the great debate? Did you contact the director in your section? Trim it back about 18 paragraphs and explain yourself.

Carol continues:

"Now that we have minimalized the CW and testing requirement to the point where just
about any moron can obtain a license..."

Carol Carol Carol. You obviously haven't read 50% of the posts to this thread. "Any moron" has always been able to get a license. Nothing new there. And CW at 5 or 25 is not a roadblock. To CW or not CW has never been the question. So your point would be what?

It is apparent that your point is ARRL hate mail. Nothing more, nothing less. Carol is just another troll seeking to tear down instead of support and improve the organization through involvement. I think you should take your multiple degrees in whatever and replicate what the ARRL has done. You could start a cult following as some other nut has suggested. You could even collect $39 from each of them. You would be rich!

Your posting was all about Carol being bitter about what the board did to damage you. I fail to see one argument that holds water.

Take it outside, please!
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by AB7UW-MONTANA on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I called the ARRL today, it took awhile! It seems there is overwhelming angry commentary concerning this proposal. I too added my voice to the thousands that Hate this "free ride". I have made FISTS my voice. Even if you dont use code but are very angry over this proposal may I suggest joining FISTS and adding your voice to the many amateurs that feel that what we worked for does matter and tradition along with knowledge is the only way in to hf. I am still a member of the ARRL, but I did make myself perfectly clear to them that this proposal will leave them notably barren of despertly needed funds. I think everyones phone calls and e-mails to the league is having an effect to say the least! Keep it up! 73 Vaughn-N1XV ex AB7UW FISTS #5207
 
ARRL Brain Damaged Proposal  
by KV4BL on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This has got to be one of the stupidist things I have seen in a long time...at least since the dumb-down restructuring of 2000! No code and a 25 question test (not even 35 or hopefully 50 minimum) and you are on hf. A couple on here have complained about having to lower the power on 100 watt rigs to 50 on some of the bands affected by this proposal when licensed as a Novice. Lessee, could it be that they fear that persons able to pass the new Novice test might routinely lack the mental ability and skill to lower the power to 50 watts? Heck with the comprehension of rules, theory, and operating procedure needed to pass just a 25 question written exam, I imagine turning the radio on might be a challenge for some. I've been meaning to join the ARRL again but a combination of getting the money together and just plain old "not getting around to it" prevented me from doing so. Now I am glad that I did not. I can't wait for the "brain stem only" people we are treated to with increasing frequency on 2m FM get to share the already crowded 75 meter band with us. Yeah, 75 has its problems but at least the CB talk ('I'm just about destinated here, Sam") and all is at a minimum, as is the doofus talk ("yeaaaaaaaahhhhh, huh huh huh huuuuuuuuuhhhh....duuuhhhhhhh"). Now we get to listen to this on hf too...GREAT!!!!! I can remember when foward thinking science and technology teachers in schools taught ham radio as an educational tool and helped get a lot of promising, intelligent young boys and girls their licenses, exposing them to a new hobby and helping to keep the hobby passed to new generations. I can see where we are headed with the logic the ARRL gives for the upgrades in privs to everyone. Let's see, breathing, drooling, and incontinence are functions frequently controlled by the brain...so if you can breathe, drool, and soil yourself, even though devoid of the ability to communicate with anyone around you in a meaningful way, you are using brain functions and this is similar to thought, comprehension, and communication previously needed to pass all classes of amateur radio licenses and you are now entitled to grunt and drool on the air if someone sets up a radio with a vox in your room. This may be a new therapy tool for brain damage and special ed teachers. God, I love their logic!!!!!! While I have several very good friends who either started out years ago as No-Code Techs or are still NCT's, they have the ability to learn the 5wpm and get on the air once it is becomes enough of a priority for them to do so. These are the kind of people the NCT license was supposed to attract to the hobby. While I don't think we need to make code mandatory for Tech again, we certainly don't need to lower the bar for hf acess any more than it already is. 5 wpm IS no-code! I would "benefit" from this proposal by being "grandfathered" from Advanced to Extra. If and when it is important enough to me to advance to Extra, I'll spend the time needed studying the books. Until then, I can content myself with my current class license. I really don't want to get a "free" upgrade. Then again, I just realized a potential income opportunity in all of this. Gotta run folks, I need to get started manufacturing my new callsign drool cups. Look for my ads when they appear in QST later this year. 73, Ray KV4BL
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ed Hare-W1RFI wrote:

Some have publically taken the high moral ground here, and I think it only fair to find out just how high that moral ground is.

Ed,

It is apparent to me that none of the people critical of the ARRL and posting to this thread have lifted one finger to support amateur radio. Not one of them has demonstrated ANY activity they personally do to promote amateur radio. Quite the contrary, they attack women posters, they attack past actions of the board, they whine about some email that got lost, they attack David Sumner, they attack you. One guy wants to fight with you. What was that all about? These are not people, they are trolls.

I challenge any of the trolls with negative comments about the ARRL to stand up and demonstrate their dedication to fellow amateurs by describing what they do to promote Amateur Radio, protect its spectrum, defend the freedoms we enjoy before congress, or any, I mean ANY good they perform.

I seriously doubt we will hear from any of them Ed. These are just negative people spouting filth and garbage through this media instead of 75M.

Personally, I hope they do drop their ARRL membership. They do not deserve a voice in the final outcome of any issues facing ham radio. Dropping ARRL membership is the most short-sighted action anybody can take. The truth is, they are just trying to justify their actions. In their heart-of-hearts they know they have no defense. These trolls are attempting to justify themselves by locating other, like minded people for support. I pity them...
 
RE: ARRL Brain Damaged Proposal  
by WD0BCX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
TO KV4BL We allready have "Brain stem" licensees out there, at least here in my area.

We have on fellow who his preacher thaught it would be nice of he had a license because he liked CB radios,well guess what? We are having trouble with the guy butting in and throwing out a call 5 times an hour now. He asks three times a day about his signal, he doesn't know how a repeater works.


I can hardly wait till we get a few more.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0FP writes:

"I challenge any of the trolls with negative comments about the ARRL to stand up and demonstrate their dedication....by describing what they do to promote Amateur Radio, protect its spectrum, defend the freedoms we enjoy before congress, or any, I mean ANY good they perform"

Well, I made the mistake of joining the ARRL & paying my dues, believing that would "promote amateur radio, protect its spectrum, defend the freedom we enjoy before congresss". Moreover, I elmer hams and assist a local handicapped Ham.

What do you do other than kiss up to the ARRL?



 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE wrote:

...I elmer hams and assist a local handicapped Ham.

Jo,

On behalf of real ham ops everywhere. Thank you. Elmering is an excellent way to help out.

So, we have the response from one troll. Any others?
 
RE: ARRL Brain Damaged Proposal  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<It is apparent to me that none of the people critical of the ARRL and posting to this thread have lifted one finger to support amateur radio. Not one of them has demonstrated ANY activity they personally do to promote amateur radio.>>

Wrong! Don't beleve me, see our club website www.n5crp.org I just finished teaching "Radio Merit Badge" to 40 scouts. I am active in my club and I promote Amateur radio when ever I can. As a dues paying member of the ARRL, I have the right , no obligation, to sound off if I don't like something they have done.
 
RRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ED, W1RFI asks whether people like me that have CANCELLED our ARRL membership:

1)Will they throw away their old QSTs?
I never save them. The advertising goes out of date.

2) Will they throw away any ARRL awards they have?
I have never needed the ARRL to tell me my card is good. Nor do I need the ARRL to count the 256 I have confirmed. No ARRL toilet paper to toss!

3) Will they throw away their ARRL publications?
I will be selling them at the hamfest THIS WEEKEND in St. Charles, ILL.


As the old saying goes, hell has no fury like a ham scorned!
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0FP:

I ask you the same question you posed to me:
What do YOU do to further ham radio? Or is kissing up to the ARRL your idea of "furthering ham radio?"

Jon
W9WHE
Proud to have CANCELLED my ARRL membership.
 
RE: RRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham rad  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:

3) Will they throw away their ARRL publications?
I will be selling them at the hamfest THIS WEEKEND in St. Charles, ILL.


So apparently you believe they have value. If you really believed the ARRL should go away, you would throw them out for fear somebody might read, use, learn, or better themselves.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by KE4VRM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well said NoFP!!!! I agree wholeheartedly. It is sad that people want to continue to sling mud over this issue. Everyone knew this was coming and should have seen the writing on the wall. But, unfortunately, there are those that cant adapt to change. That is a real shame. I, for one, refuse to get down to their level. I'll stay on the high road. Way to go ARRL! I commend you for enhancing the future of ham radio. We need to move forward from here.
 
RE: RRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham rad  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As much as I dislike the proposal, quitting is NOT the answer! You must change from within. This comming from a 1 year member, so I have not been beating my head as long as some.
 
ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Quitting is the ONLY language they understand.
 
RE: RRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham rad  
by KD5UJX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<Way to go ARRL! I commend you for enhancing the future of ham radio. We need to move forward from here.>>

Spoken like someone who's been a Tech for 7 years.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:

I ask you the same question you posed to me:
What do YOU do to further ham radio? Or is kissing up to the ARRL your idea of "furthering ham radio?"

Fair question. I have no affiliation with the ARRL other than being a member for many years. I also elmer people in my area. As far as kissing up, I hardly think Director Bellows believes he has experienced any "kissing up." We've had our exchanges of opinion--and a mutual respect for different points of view. I'm a member of ARES, Skywarn, an active DXer, contester, and sponsor a FD event every year for local hams to come and play radio. They even learn a thing or two. Check out my QRZ page under my callsign. I've introduced ham radio special events in the lunch room of my local Jr High/Sr High school on several occassions. The local radio club honored me at their annual meeting with special recognition for teaching a class and doing the High School events.

A better response is what I don't do:
1) I don't actively attempt to destroy the ARRL
2) I don't operate my radio irresponsibly
3) I don't openly attack people at the ARRL who are doing their best to make the Ham Radio experience better for everybody
4) I don't sit back and watch trolls spread lies and filth on the air or on media like eHam
5) I don't let my ARRL membership drop

Do you want me to continue or have you had enough?

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KE4ZHN on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Welcome to multiband CB. The ARRL`s proposal comes as no surprise, I knew it would only be a matter of time before the folks up in Newington looked towards their wallets instead of the hobby. At least I can still be proud of getting my ticket the old fashioned way. I only wonder what the next dumb down step will be? Why not just give away the ticket with the purchase of every new rig?
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In the life of every organization, there are watershead events. I predict that this is one such devent for the ARRL. They have made some bone-headed decisions in the past, but this one takes the cake.

The calculation is simple.
They want more $$ so they offer the keys to the city, hoping that the greatful techs will join for $39 a year. No doubt some Techs will join in gratitude. But the real question is, how many existing members will leave? This is a calculation the ARRL has repeatedly made. The answer astonishes me. But it is K1ZZ's to make. (I'm told the president of the ARRL doesn't even vote)

They have bet the farm on opening the flood gates to HF and stabbing Generals, Advanced & Extras in the back. I think its a HUGE gamble, especially for those that make their living from the ARRL. Must be rough to see all those members CANCELLING.

I wonder, do ARRL employees dare to tell K1ZZ what they REALLY think? I cannot believe that Ed, W1RFI REALLY believes that this proposal is good for ham radio. Yet, I suspect that many like him feel compelled to suppress their personal beliefs. Am I wrong?

W9WHE,
Proud to have CANCELLED my ARRL membership



 
 
by W3JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What per se does the number of questions on an exam have to do with the relative difficulty of the test? How many Extra class amateurs would be licensed today if they had been confronted with the following single question exam:

An antenna consists of a single cylindrical vertical element 5.1 m tall. The vertical element is made of copper and is 5 cm in diameter. It is operated with a counterpoise of four equally spaced horizontal radial wires made of AWG14 copper wire. The radial wires are each 5.1 m long. The antenna is fed from a 50-ohm source via 100 m of RG-213/U coaxial cable. The rms output potential of the source is 50 V. The frequency of the source is 14.2 MHz. Assuming that the antenna is in free space, what is the electric field potential 200 m from the antenna at an elevation angle of 15 degrees above the horizontal plane of the counterpoise?

That's a prefectly reasonable question. I worked hard to learn how to answer it. The ability to correctly answer it is much more closely related to 21st century radio operations than knowledge of the Morse code (which I mastered with much less sweat).

Clearly, those of us who do radio for a living could write an exam that would clear the bands of most CW operators, and we wouldn't need 50, or even 25, questions to do it. But that's not the point. Rather, we need to bring more folks into the hobby.

Once they come in, we have a responsibilty to help them learn the ropes.

Should the requirements for licensing be different from year to year? Of course. When I was first licensed to drive a car, taking the test in a vehicle with an automatic transmission resulted in a restricted license. Testing with a manual transmission was required for a full license. These days, no one would think twice about granting a regular driver's license to someone who tested in a car with an automatic transmission. We allow access to the road by drivers who have not demonstrated a previously necessary skill.

The same principle applies the HF amateur operations and obsolete communication technologies.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK, time to wake up and smell the roses. There is a poll going on regarding this subject on eham. With over 1000 votes cast those for the ARRL proposal make up 54%, opposed 30%, and the remaining 16% have voted "whatever". It seems that the majority of hams aren't opposed or either don't think this proposal is worth fighting over. It looks like the ARRL might just have accurately represented the majority within its membership. Perhaps times are a changing and the "OM's" that used to get there way, don't have the kind of voice they thought they had in the organization. So much for sour grapes. The King is dead, long live the King. The ARRL has leveled the playing field and they are listening to there membership.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AMATEUR2003 on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>greatful techs will join for $39 a year<<

And become Diamond club or life members.
My check is in the mail :o)

--... ...--
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KE4ZHN writes:

...I knew it would only be a matter of time before the folks up in Newington looked towards their wallets instead of the hobby.


Where does this notion creep into this discussion? I've heard this theme repeated over and over and it remains a complete mystery to me.

The FCC has to respond to an international treaty that virtually dictates the elimination of incentive licensing. The ARRL drafted a recommendation to the FCC in response to the dictates of the treaty after hearing all the arguments for and against from its membership (and only members have a voice). The ARRL's recommendation is a reasonable approach to the treaty's dictates. Without the ARRL, I assure you that the FCC would adopt what is most expedient for the FCC--a new license app with every HT. Just sign it and send it in.

A ham ticket has been easier to get than a motor cycle license. You get a book, read it for a couple of hours, take a test. That's always been the way it is. I got my license many years ago and passed the Novice, Tech and General segments in one sitting. I even had the 20WPM passed that night too, but I failed the advanced test. What is the big deal? This always has been easy.

 
RE:  
by W3JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
BTW, I'm teaching my son (KB3GHE) both Morse code and how to drive with a manual transmission.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N9WB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am a life member and a very strong supporter of the ARRL. However, I cannot support the ARRL proposal to upgrade all Technician and Technician Plus licensees to General Class.

While the No Code Technician License has brought a great many fine people into our Amateur ranks, some unqualified and undesirable people have also entered Amateur Radio through this avenue. This has occurred largely because the level of difficulty of the examination was too low and because applicants were permitted to retake the test repeatedly over a short time, even on the same day until they “got lucky”. Now the ARRL is proposing to grant these individuals 1500 W PEP and H.F. privileges carte blanche.

Although I am not a proponent of no-code, I do recognize the fact that the main barrier to qualified people entering Amateur Radio is the code requirement. Quality people of the type that we are seeking will have no problem passing the General written exam to upgrade once the code requirement is lifted. Most Technician Class Amateurs that I have discussed this with would rather take the General written exam to assure a higher quality Amateur presence on the H.F. bands. Lifting the code requirement will open the floodgate, additional incentives and automatic upgrades are not necessary.

We can stop this automatic upgrade. The first step is a massive e-mail campaign to our Directors who are our representatives before OUR League. These letters should be respectfully worded. Letters should focus on the issue of the automatic Tech to General upgrade and leave the no-code issue out of this.

If enough Amateurs, particularly ARRL members write their Directors, it will be obvious to the Directors that this part of the proposal does not represent the wishes of the ARRL membership or the Amateur community in general.

Encourage Amateurs to write their ARRL Directors on reflectors, during nets where appropriate, in newsletters, and at club meetings. Petitions can also be circulated at club meetings and hamfests.

Very few Amateurs will have any problem with passing the General written exam to obtain H.F. privileges. We can stop the automatic Tech to General upgrade if enough of us act now.

Walter A. Breining, N9WB
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KE4ZHN on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Ford, you just dont get it do you? Easy tickets mean more memberships. More memberships means more advertising revenue. The big 3 are happy, the boys up in Newington are happy...everyones happy but the hams who got sold down the river and worked for their license. Maybe if you would quit sucking up to Ed Hare long enough you would see that....but probably not.
 
ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by W9WHE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0FP writes:

"The FCC has to respond to an international treaty that virtually dictates the elimination of incentive licensing"

Nonsence. The international treaty merely dropped the "requirement" for CW. It does NOT mandate that ANY country drop their individual CW equirements. EVERY country is free to make their own decision. The treaty does not "dictate" anything of the sort.
 
RE:  
by KG4YJR on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>BTW, I'm teaching my son (KB3GHE) both Morse code and how to drive with a manual transmission.<<

Make sure you teach him on an old Model T with the hand-crank starter or he won't feel the magic of driving.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
tanks to de arrl we are goin' tohave a jammin time on multiband cb. whats arrl? Anyhoo thaks again. seeya all on multiband cb crazycber-macon, ga.
 
ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by K1CJS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The proposal on the board here now seems a fair and well thought out one save for the grandfathering of the Techs to General status. That one part of the proposal is the most asinine idea that ever came from Newington! I would rather take the General test--I do not want General privileges handed to the present Tech licensees, although the Tech plus code license does just that. Demonstrating knowledge of the theory for HF operation to gain the General license should be what the ARRL should be pushing for.

As far as the code, retaining it for the Extra ticket is fine. Although in a few years that may change too, for I think the code will go the way of the spark gap transmitter very soon. Just remember, CW and code will still be used whether it is required or not.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KE4ZHN writes:

Maybe if you would quit sucking up to Ed Hare long enough you would see that....but probably not.

I don't recall "sucking up" to Ed Hare. I do recall Ed being attacked by trolls on eHam, including one enlightened fellow that wants to do murderous acts to Ed. I take exception to that. Go back and read the posts. If you support that behavior, you my friend are a very sick fellow!
 
Strange.......  
by K1CJS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Did anyone notice......almost everyone who is against any change in the current setup and is calling this proposal opening Ham radio to everyone including CBers USES CB JARGON???

Seems like they know it quite well also! I wonder where they spend their time when they're not on the ham bands....... :-))
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Poated by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004:
"OK, time to wake up and smell the roses. There is a poll going on regarding this subject on eham. With over 1000 votes cast those for the ARRL proposal make up 54%, opposed 30%, and the remaining 16% have voted "whatever". It seems that the majority of hams aren't opposed or either don't think this proposal is worth fighting over. It looks like the ARRL might just have accurately represented the majority within its membership. Perhaps times are a changing and the "OM's" that used to get there way, don't have the kind of voice they thought they had in the organization. So much for sour grapes. The King is dead, long live the King. The ARRL has leveled the playing field and they are listening to there membership."

The vehement opposition is not to the proposed codeless Novice license. The vehement opposition is to eliminating Element 1 testing for General and granting no-code Techs an automatic upgrade to General. The vehement opposition is to a free ride. I took the poll. I am in favor of the proposed codeless Novice. I clicked "Bring it on!" But I'm madder than hell about the codeless General and the free upgrade for Techs. To say that this poll reflects the desire of a majority of hams to go to a codeless General and grandfather Techs to General is complete error and absolute folly.
 
RE: Very dangerous indeed  
by KE4MOB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After having thought about this, I'm concerned about giving Tech and Tech Plus operators General privledges. Going from VHF 50 watt repeater operation to 1500W HF operation is not something to be taken lightly. This rule, if adopted, will cause a few house fires, a couple of electrocutions, and 4 or 5 cases of RF induced cancer I'm afraid. The FCC (by WRC rule) is supposed to verify the operating qualifications of the licensees. This isn't doing it.

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N7UQA on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KE4ZHN writes:

...I knew it would only be a matter of time before the folks up in Newington looked towards their wallets instead of the hobby.


You guys keep over looking the obivous and just insist on bashing the ARRL. The code requirement is gone, the ITU made that decision. What are you going to say if the FCC says "Let's follow the rest of the world and do away with the code requirement completely"

All the naysayers out here sound just like the "CB'ers" you claim are going to distroy the ham bands. It didn't happen when the no code technician came out and if the FCC grants the ARRL proposal it won't happen then.

I came in to the amateur radio service via the no code technician. It was the ONLY entry point I had avaliable to me, since then I took the general, advanced and extra exams and did the 5, 13 and 20 wpm code tests. I'm also a VE for the W5YI and ARRL. I don't bitch, gripe and moan about every little thing the ARRL does. I don't act like the bigot "CB'ers" on 75 meters buy playing music, sound effects and constantly complaining about how 60 meters is the precursor to channelization of the HF bands.

Have you guys forgotten all the problems that were on 75 meters before the no code tecnician? Like the bigots and jammers that were on almost nightly on 3950 and 14313. And what about the old W6NUT repeater? Guys that I have talked to in the LA area indicate that this had been going on since the 80s.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I will take the liberty of reposting what I had posted much earlier in the thread. I have thought about what I wrote and still think that the best way to address Technicians is to merge them with the General. All of the alternatives to me seem to have more of a downside.

From my earlier post:

Right now, that Tech license essentially gives that new amateur exposure only to his or her local VHF community. In some areas, that provides support and encouragement; in other areas it does not. The only operation that most of them can do easily is VHF repeater FM. Sure, some who have the abilility and location to put up a big antenna can do VHF+ weak-signal work, or satellite, but their ham-radio universe is very limited.

Yes, with Morse code, they can get seriously limited access to parts of HF that are so deserted that they are on the plate for "refarming" to use the spectrum term, but that has not proven to be a successful way for hams to become active on HF. And on HF, with a simple wire in the trees, hams can build stations easily that are capable of worldwide communications at 100-watt levels.

Having an entry point that is much more difficult than the old Novice, more difficult than the more recent Novice and very limited for most in practical application has led us to a state where youth is not entering ham radio; most who get licensed today are not in their teens and where most who enter ham radio do not get active in any sense of the word.

Contrary to the proclamations of some, ham radio is not withering on the vine, but it is aging. If steps are not taken now to ensure that there is new blood, eventually, those proclamations will be true.

By my view, those are the valid reasons to want an entry-level license that truly is entry level.

The ARRL proposal limits power for the new Novice license to 100 watts on most HF bands, and to 50 watts on 28, 50, 144, 222 and 420-MHz allocations. The New Novice proposal does not allow operation about the 70 cm band. The power levels were selected to be below the levels that the FCC requires to do an RF-safety evaluation of the station, thus mimimizing the number of RF-safety topics that would have to be considered for the exam.

IMHO, all of these factors are related to the reasons to merge the Tech, Tech+ and General license classes. First, if the reasons for the change to offer significant HF access to all licensees, to eliminate the balkanization that comes from segregating new hams to spectrum where they are not part of the "action" that is important to most of us HF hams, then taking steps to bring them into mainstream amateur radio is, IMHO, important.

There have been a number of different Technician exams given over the years, with older ones being exactly equivalent to General, and newer ones being not so drastically different in technical content than the General, and certainly as technical as the General exam of my era (1964), that I passed after studying no more than the 16-page chapter in the ARRL study guide.

I have learned far more about amateur radio by operating than by studying, so getting hams on the air is the best teaching tool we have. This would not work without some fundamental background, so the old Novice exam I took, for example, should not be enough to warrant merging the Novice into the General privileges. But, IMHO, the scope of the Technician exam is enough. Yes, they haven't been tested in things like the band edges, but those are about to change, and few could seriously think that this isn't something a new ham could solve in about a minute.

What are the alternatives for Technicians? Taking away privileges, and doing so was the biggest fault in the incentive licensing restructuring that happened last century. If the Technicians were going to be merged into the New Novice, who would want to tell the Technicians doing weak-signal work and design on 1.2 GHz; 3.3 GHz; 5.6 GHz; 10 GHz and 24 GHz, just as examples, that their contributions to amateur radio on that spectrum are no longer required? Who would tell the Technicians that are working as we speak on developing protocols for amateurs to make use of 802.11 equipment under Part 97 that they will wake up the next day and not be able do continue? Who would want to tell the Technician doing moonbounce that tomorrow, he has to cut his power back to 50 watts? And to include those frequencies in the Novice adds a whole layer of testing requirements for microwave techniques, not really suitable for an entry-level class, IMHO.

When the FCC did the last restructuring, they chose not to merge most license classes. Instead, they permitted people to continue to renew Novice and Advanced licences. They actually did merge Tech and Tech+, but they kept the need for a separate code test and separate privileges. So the simplification of 6 license classes left us with, well... 6 license classes. The "legacy" license types were orphans, and, from all indications, virtually all of the Novices were doing nothing with their licenses and the Advanced was the most inactive of the "mainstream" amateur classes. IMHO, I agree with ARRL that it is time to put that behind us and no longer keep such orphan, ill-used license classes in the structure of amateur radio.

With all of that in mind, I can understand why the ARRL chose to recommend that the Tech, Tech+ and General license classes be merged. It is not a perfect solution, but in the patchwork quilt of what has become the most most convoluted and balkanized amateur radio structure in the world, it is, IMHO, the best choice.

How well it could work is up to the amateur radio service more than any other factor. As these new hams come to HF, with enthusiasm and start in their eyes, they will have the same dumb questions I had after passing that dumbed-down Novice exam of the 1960s. (See http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/novice63.html to see how dumbed down *I* had to be to enter ham radio!)

If we offer help and encouragement, this can work, and they will do what we all want them to do, learn and grow within amateur radio. If we offer the anger and discouragement some have offered here, it will all be for naught, and any change, and perhaps amateur radio, could fail.

Just my personal views, guys, but those who know me well know that I call them the way I see them. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:

...The international treaty merely dropped the "requirement" for CW. It does NOT mandate that ANY country drop their individual CW equirements. EVERY country is free to make their own decision...

Have you been paying attention to any of the articles? Oh, maybe your QST subscription has lapsed. Just about every country on this planet that was a party to that treaty seems to have interpreted differently than you. One by one they are dropping the CW requirement completely. Nodda, Zippo! At least the ARRL is proposing a retention of some incentive licensing.

The ARRL polled its membership in private and public debate. The membership spoke. The Board responded. My personal view is that I don't really care. One way or another, we will survive this. New hams will come on board. Some will be blithering idiots with radios until some people, like yourself, elmer them through the process.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N9WB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Do not boycott the League. This is our League. Amateur Radio will be toast without a strong representative organization.

The big concern in this proposal is the plan to upgrade Technician class to General without further testing. As I stated before, we should see that our directors get a massive response protesting this Technician to General upgrade. I am confident that once they realize how the membership views this, they will change this part of the proposal.

If our Directors do not represent our wishes, stay in the League and change Directors.

Vy 73, N9WB

 
RE: Very dangerous indeed  
by N9WB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Besides the electrocutions and fires, after the city yuppies are swamped by complaints of TVI by guys cussing and belching, they won’t allow us a ten foot pole, much less a tower.

N9WB, Walt
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W1RFI, well put.

Your response clarifies a lot. I agree that the ARRL really thought this thing through, and bit the bullet to do what was necessary.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N0FP on January 22, 2004:
"W9WHE writes:
...The international treaty merely dropped the "requirement" for CW. It does NOT mandate that ANY country drop their individual CW equirements. EVERY country is free to make their own decision...

Have you been paying attention to any of the articles? Oh, maybe your QST subscription has lapsed. Just about every country on this planet that was a party to that treaty seems to have interpreted differently than you. One by one they are dropping the CW requirement completely. Nodda, Zippo!"

Oh, really. The truth is that most countries have not dropped their code requirements, and some never will. This decision per WRC 2003 has been left up to each individual country's option. There is nothing compelling the FCC to change anything. There is nothing compelling any country to change anything.
 
RE: Very dangerous indeed  
by NI6G on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KE4MOB wrote:

"This rule, if adopted, will cause a few house fires, a couple of electrocutions, and 4 or 5 cases of RF induced cancer I'm afraid."

With all due respect, you need to learn the difference between IONIZING and NON-IONIZING forms of radiation.

RF DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER! PERIOD. END OF STORY.

73, NI6G
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by K1CJS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In responce to W1RFI:

Ed, I can agree to your reasoning but how on earth can the proposal be fair to anyone???
One way the proposal can be looked at is this: >>Everyone up to this point who upgraded to general had to prove proficiency by passing element 3 and every new ham will have to do the same, but the current crop of techs and tech plusses will not.<< To answer, It is not and cannot be. Face it, 95% of licensees learn the theory by studing the question pool. Do you actually think these "new generals" will actually bother to even read relevant material before they get on the air? I don't.

The past technician license tests may be closer to the present general test, but the present tech test is not even close to being so. Sure, it has a few of the questions lightly covered, but it is not comprehensive enough to prove proficiency for upgrade to general class.

In the mish-mosh of past 'restructuring', opportunity to upgrade was not automatic, some sort of upgrade test was administered. That should be the case here. Element 3 testing for an upgrade to general should be retained. Of course, this is only MHO.

Oh, by the way, I am currently a tech licensee who believes in knowing what should be done before one attempts to do it.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N3JTN on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This is great.if some ham don't like i guess you go set in corner and CRY .we will be on the radio talking.....
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2UQB on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It seems to me that the ARRL is "giving the store away" with this one. I am a general and I am proud of my accomplishment. This free ride thing doesn't set right with me either. May be I shouldn't bother to upgrad to extra, they'll just give it to me in a couple years anyways. Just a thought.
73 de Eric, N2UQB
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ writes:

"The truth is that most countries have not dropped their code requirements, and some never will."

A two minute search on eHam indicates you have no clue what you are saying:


Japan:
http://www.eham.net/articles/7071?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Denmark:
http://www.eham.net/articles/7066?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Australia
http://www.eham.net/articles/7019?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Canada
http://www.eham.net/articles/6892?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Papua New Guinea
http://www.eham.net/articles/6776?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Germany
http://www.eham.net/articles/6340?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3

You want me to continue? Or do you intend to provide some basis for your blatantly abusive and intentional misrepresentation of facts?

More countries are leaning the same direction.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NI6G on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If you think "splittail" is bad,then do a Google search on "FISTS".

Now, don't get me wrong. I LOVE CW.

I'm just sayin' ... ;-)

LOL

 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" ham ra  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by by W1RFI on January 22, 2004:

"I have to wonder, will those that quit never go to the ARRL web page for anything? Will they never ask a friend for a copy of a QST article? If their local club reposts the ARRL Letter, will they not read it because their principles won't let them derive benefit from an organization they are "proud" not to support? If the ARRL files comments on an FCC filing that could benefit them, will they contact the FCC and say that it is okay if the industy ARRL says might cause them harm is allowed to operate on their street? Will they throw away their old QSTs so they won't derive any benefit there? Will they throw away any ARRL awards they have, instead of leaving them on their shack as bragging rights? Will they throw away their ARRL publications? If their club is ARRL affliated, will they stop going to meetings because ARRL have provided some support for the club? If their club does Field Day, will they boycott it now because it is an ARRL sponsored event? Will they not make QSOs in the next ARRL DX contest? The list goes on, and those are the more direct things. Will they take every possible step to make sure that they don't receive any of the indirect benefit from those things that ARRL will continue to do for amateur radio?"

Ed, I ask you:

1. When the communists took control of South Vietnam, did they destroy Da Nang Airport just because the US built it for them? Did they destroy all the other infrastructure that we built in South Vietnam? Did they destroy all the American military hardware, tanks and planes that we left over there?

2. When the Ayatollah Khomeini took control of Iran, did the new Iranian government order the destruction of any planes, tanks, other military hardware that they bought from us, and any infrastructure that we built for their country?

The answer is no. The new hostile governments continued using the American technology that we either gave them or sold them.
 
RE: WIRFI /ARRL  
by N2NZJ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I PERSONALLY COMMEND THE ARRL FOR TAKING A POSITIVE STAND FOR THE FUTURE OF THE A. R. S. AS A WHOLE. I ALSO COMMEND W1RFI ED TAKING HEAT FROM THESE LOUSY LOWDOWN TROLLERS,FLAMERS AND ETC. to me and all GOOD AMATEURS WITH GOOD COMMON SENSE KNOW THAT THIS PROPOSAL IS AN EXCELLENT DOCUMENT.WE all know these super trollers very well IF I RAN AN ORGANIZATION I WOULD NOT WANT THESE TYPE OF PEOPLE IN IT PERIOD. they can just "GO". now is the time all GOOD RADIO AMATEURS SHOULD STAND UP AND SUPPORT THE ARRL.my XYL AND I WILL REMAIN MEMBERSHIP "100%" from now on.these (L L T C G T H )PERIOD. I SAY AGAIN I SUPPORT THE ARRL'S DOCKET 100%. 73 TOM N2NZJ ARRL MEMBER AND PROUD OF IT.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by KE4DJQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well i will have to admit i love it. As far as anyone saying the tech test didnt have anything on it about propogation and the way the ionosphere works are kidding yourselves.As i remember it there were questions on the novice test that concerned those issues.The only thing i wish is that all of you so called glorified righteous guys that are on hf now would sell your rigs and gear and quit your pissing and moaning and get on with another hobby if you dont like it....way to go arrl,maybe now ill become a member of your organization now that you represent all of the population............KE4DJQ
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Well i will have to admit i love it. As far as
> anyone saying the tech test didnt have anything on
> it about propogation and the way the ionosphere
> works are kidding yourselves.As i remember it there
> were questions on the novice test that concerned
> those issues.

The later Novice and Tech tests had questions on HF propagation. The Novice test in 1963, before they "dumbed down" the entry-level exams by adding that material to the Novice and Tech tests had no questions about antennas, feed lines or propagation.

http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/novice63.html

The above URL will let you see what amateur radio had for test that let in the likes of me. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by by N0FP on January 22, 2004
"AG4RQ writes:

"The truth is that most countries have not dropped their code requirements, and some never will."

A two minute search on eHam indicates you have no clue what you are saying:


Japan:
http://www.eham.net/articles/7071?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Denmark:
http://www.eham.net/articles/7066?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Australia
http://www.eham.net/articles/7019?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Canada
http://www.eham.net/articles/6892?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Papua New Guinea
http://www.eham.net/articles/6776?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3
Germany
http://www.eham.net/articles/6340?ehamsid=d7485dd7897b97d8b1c1f59c43e5ffa3

You want me to continue? Or do you intend to provide some basis for your blatantly abusive and intentional misrepresentation of facts?

More countries are leaning the same direction."

A mere handful of countries. Most didn't drop their code requirements. You are the one misrepresenting facts. Why don't you come to me in 2 years and try to hand me the same line of crap. I'm willing to bet that once the smoke clears, we will find that most countries decided to keep Morse testing.

In the mean while, why don't you provide us all with two complete verifiable lists of the countries that have dropped their Morse testing and the countries that didn't. Better yet, why don't you provide us with those verifiable lists once a year has passed, say in July of this year.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The written testing in amateur radio doesn't examine proficiency. They are all tests of knowledge. Having taught in Higher Education and took part in test development, believe me, the questions asked on none of these test are set up to determine proficiency. They don't even ask for the examinee to do any complex operations. They are for the most part fact based questions. Only in the extra exam is there any real(?)computational skills required. The questions are not process questions. There aren't even many questions that could be described as trick by students. The answers for the most part are either clearly wrong or right. That is why Gordon West's books are so popular. They recognize the tests don't really measure anything more than the knowledge of facts. Facts that can be memorized, it is not required that you understand the underlying theory. In my career field, which requires testing to practice, it has been common knowledge for years that the educational system doesn't really prepare you to practice. You will learn to practice during the first couple of years post graduation in the real world. The educational process simply provided a base to expand on after graduation. When I took my tech exam it was all a blur of information that didn't really relate to much, only after I began operating did the things I memorized, learned make much sense. The same with General, after all, I wasn't operating HF yet, how could I be proficient? I studied the material, understood a bit, but some of it was out there in left field. I took the test and started operating. Now as I operate I relearn things at a different level. There are nothing wrong with the exams as they exist. A good exam should be something that you can learn from. They accomplish that.

I take issue with the OM's complaining about the old exams being harder. They did exactly the same things we are doing. There elmers gave them material to learn (memorize) so they could pass the tests. While the test questions were not published a pool of questions existed and anybody that had been around awhile could predict the content of the exam for any class. Yes, they may have had to diagram a particular circuit. I would bet that most of them regurgitated it from memory rather than understanding the principles behind the circuit. It is what most of us do during the educational process. We memorize a bunch of facts then after a while the light goes on and those facts combine in a way that the light goes on and we say "wow". I am not trying to generalize because there are always the exceptions, those that wreck the curve for the rest of us. Most hams are pretty average so I would expect that most of us fall into the pattern I have described.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The written testing in amateur radio doesn't examine proficiency. They are all tests of knowledge. Having taught in Higher Education and took part in test development, believe me, the questions asked on none of these test are set up to determine proficiency. They don't even ask for the examinee to do any complex operations. They are for the most part fact based questions. Only in the extra exam is there any real(?)computational skills required. The questions are not process questions. There aren't even many questions that could be described as trick by students. The answers for the most part are either clearly wrong or right. That is why Gordon West's books are so popular. They recognize the tests don't really measure anything more than the knowledge of facts. Facts that can be memorized, it is not required that you understand the underlying theory. In my career field, which requires testing to practice, it has been common knowledge for years that the educational system doesn't really prepare you to practice. You will learn to practice during the first couple of years post graduation in the real world. The educational process simply provided a base to expand on after graduation. When I took my tech exam it was all a blur of information that didn't really relate to much, only after I began operating did the things I memorized, learned make much sense. The same with General, after all, I wasn't operating HF yet, how could I be proficient? I studied the material, understood a bit, but some of it was out there in left field. I took the test and started operating. Now as I operate I relearn things at a different level. There are nothing wrong with the exams as they exist. A good exam should be something that you can learn from. They accomplish that.

I take issue with the OM's complaining about the old exams being harder. They did exactly the same things we are doing. There elmers gave them material to learn (memorize) so they could pass the tests. While the test questions were not published a pool of questions existed and anybody that had been around awhile could predict the content of the exam for any class. Yes, they may have had to diagram a particular circuit. I would bet that most of them regurgitated it from memory rather than understanding the principles behind the circuit. It is what most of us do during the educational process. We memorize a bunch of facts then after a while the light goes on and those facts combine in a way that the light goes on and we say "wow". I am not trying to generalize because there are always the exceptions, those that wreck the curve for the rest of us. Most hams are pretty average so I would expect that most of us fall into the pattern I have described.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> ...The international treaty merely dropped
> the "requirement" for CW. It does NOT mandate that
> ANY country drop their individual CW equirements.
> EVERY country is free to make their own decision...

> Have you been paying attention to any of the
> articles? Oh, maybe your QST subscription has
> lapsed. Just about every country on this planet that
> was a party to that treaty seems to have interpreted
> differently than you. One by one they are dropping
> the CW requirement completely. Nodda, Zippo! At
> least the ARRL is proposing a retention of some
> incentive licensing.

He is correct; the ITU chose not to continue an international treaty requirement for the demonstration of a knowledge of Morse code as a requirement for amateur radio licensing, but individual administrations are still free to test for Morse code, or not, in whatever way they feel best meets their country's needs.

You are correct; many nations have chosen not to have a CW test. In most other countries, the amateur radio licensing structure is simpler than even the proposal that ARRL put on the plate. One, or maybe two, license types is the norm.

In most other countries, they also do not have the band allocated by mode, as does the US. In some countries, the rules are little more than "These are your band edges. These are your power limits. Stay within them."

I am not offering that such a simplified structure is good for the US, but even with the streamlining of our structure on the table here, the US still would be among the countries that have the more complex amateur radio regulations in the world.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: Very dangerous indeed  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> After having thought about this, I'm concerned about
> giving Tech and Tech Plus operators General
> privledges. Going from VHF 50 watt repeater
> operation to 1500W HF operation is not something to
> be taken lightly.

The present rules permit Technician operators to use 1500 watts on 50 MHz and above. From an RF safety point of view, 30-300 MHz is the most strigent part of the spectrum.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> The written testing in amateur radio doesn't examine
> proficiency.

None of the FCC elements test for proficiency, not even element 1. Why is this a problem?

By way of contrast, in another hobby, LDMR (Large Dangerous Model Rockets,) proficiency is tested for by actually launching an LDMR under supervision. In that instance it makes perfect sense to test for proficiency, as failure of an LDMR is potentially life threatening.

Same thing in Scuba diving and General Aviation. Proficiency is only tested on those aspects of the hobby that put one at risk, a written examination of fact is sufficient for other aspects.

It's a fun hobby, but Morse code has nothing to do with the risky aspects of it.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> They recognize the tests don't really measure
> anything more than the knowledge of facts. Facts
> that can be memorized, it is not required that you
> understand the underlying theory.

Understanding the underlying theory is the EASIEST way to pass the tests. Those that try to just rote-memorize the >400 questions in the current Tech pool will have a very hard job at hand. I could not memorize 400 items of anything without understanding. Those that want to prove me wrong can memorize the spelling of 400 words in Russian. :-)

It is ironic that some of those that decry the exams as "memorization tests" attribute some special magic to the ability to memorize 26 letters, 10 numbers and a few punctuations and prosigns. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> A mere handful of countries. Most didn't drop their
> code requirements. You are the one misrepresenting
> facts. Why don't you come to me in 2 years and try
> to hand me the same line of crap. I'm willing to bet
> that once the smoke clears, we will find that most
> countries decided to keep Morse testing.

I'm willing to bet that once the smoke clears, we will find that most countries don't consider the question one way or the other.

Of those countries that have large enough active ham communities to be noticed by their regulators, I'll guess that more than half will rescind the Morse code requirement.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by SSBDX on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hams take this hobby way, way, way too seriously. Its only a hobby. All this crap about license classes, cw or no cw, arrl, bpl, etc., it totally irrelavent and will be forgotten in the future. I don't know why some hams cross the line between ham radio being just something to do and a way of life. Not very healthy.
 
RE: ARRL always dumbing down ham radio  
by NE1Z on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Simple Solution: Drop CW Testing, 1 License, 1 Test

There is no "incentive" difference left!!!

NE1Z/Bill
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Ed, I can agree to your reasoning but how on earth
> can the proposal be fair to anyone???

Actually, it probably can't. The alternatives to combining the Tech and General all would require that someone have a loss of privileges or that we all go through another round of a class of license that essentially orphans or balkanizes a group of amateurs, like it did in the last restructuring in the 1990s. .

If you want one good example of the harm that came from taking privileges away from amateurs, look to the "incentive licensing" restructuring of the last century. And that is exactly what would happen to the Tech, unless you want to add the complexity of questions about microwave techniques to be a beginner in ham radio for the Novice license.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> The past technician license tests may be closer to
> the present general test, but the present tech test
> is not even close to being so.

The technical questions on the Tech and General tests are very similar in complexity and difficulty -- none are hard for someone with a basic understanding of RF and simple electronics.

The regulatory questions on the General are more comprehensive, since they cover General privs in more detail. There is some doubt as to whether this is useful information to test.
 
RE: Very dangerous indeed  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> RF DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER! PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Research on this topic is inconclusive.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Easy tickets mean more memberships.

Unfortunately, history does not support this assertion. There was no large influx of new members at the last restructuring.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by W1RFI on January 22, 2004:
"You are correct; many nations have chosen not to have a CW test. In most other countries, the amateur radio licensing structure is simpler than even the proposal that ARRL put on the plate. One, or maybe two, license types is the norm."

Cuba has 3. All require CW proficiency both sending and receiving. See article at:

http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/articles/features/cuba.html
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KC0JTC on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As of the third of January this was the list of countries that had dropped morse code requirement.

Austia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, liechenstein, Lithuania, Luxemberg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, United Kingdom, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Singapore. No it isn't everybody but it is a substantial list.

I did not mean to imply that understanding the theory behind the answers wouldn't make it easier to pass, of course you are right. But the test doesn't measure your ability to understand the theory. All it tells us is that you knew the right answers, not why they are right. I am not saying that the testing is wrong. I think we often misinterpret what it means to pass one of the written exams, now or in the past. Another words the test are only a beginning on our way to real knowledge and proficiency in the hobby. As they say a physician at the bottom of his or her class is still called Doctor. The title in itself doesn't indicate they are proficient in the practice of medicine. I don't want a change in the testing. Our current testing accomplishes what it is supposed to do. It establishes a knowledge base for the amateur to begin operating whether on the vhf/uhf bands as a tech or the HF bands as a General.

And oh wow, I figured out how to post twice. Sorry, I didn't think the button was posting. Nothing like an echo in the room.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by K7NNG on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I strongly disagree with the proposal. But,,,,we as little people can't do a damn thing about it. And believe me, I won't let the door hit me in the ass as I leave the hobby.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by BOB27 on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As a no-code technician all I can say is this is good timing. I've been putting off studying the code for years now and I was just about to get around to it, but now I can just wait till I get grandfathered in as a General. I've never supported the ARRL before, but I'm glad they took the initiative to recommend this change. I think CW is pretty much dead anyways.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> 1) Open QST and look at the first six pages and last > six pages of the magazine.

I grabbed the issue that's currently my bathroom reading material. It's November 2003.

> The pages are covered with ads for mobile radios,
> mobile antennas and handheld "personal" radios.

inside front cover: Icom, all receivers, 3 portable, 3 fixed.

page 1: Icom, IC-718 HF fixed station transceiver
page 2: ARRL, ARRL publications
page 3: Diamond, base station antennas
page 4: Table of Contents
page 5: Table of Contents

page 157: YASME book; Icom HTs
page 158: Index of advertisers; Batteries America, replacement batteries.
page 159: Texas Towers: Mix of fixed station antennas, towers and related gear.
page 160: Texas Towers: mix of fixed and portable transceivers, antenna rotor
Inside back cover: Yaesu, Mark-V FT-1000MP HF fixed station transceiver
Outside back cover: Kenwood, TS-570DG HF + 6m fixed station transceiver

So, at a glance, I would say that you have not accurately characterized the advertising in QST.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes "dumbing down" of Amat  
by AE6IP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Military Tech and Comm courses are becoming EVERY
> BIT as "dumbed down" as ham radio in recent years.

Been that way at least since the 60s, when instructors were required to write training manuals to a 6th grade level.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W4SK on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hartford, CT (AP) And in rural Newington this week, a spokesman for the former American Radio Relay League ("ARRL") - a fraternal organization of amateur ("ham") radio operators - announced that the organization had officially changed its name to "American Radio Ruination League". Spokesman C. B. Err went on to say..... "But the vote was close. Several Board Members wanted to change it to 'Association for the Reduction of Radio Literacy'. Nevertheless, we feel the result will be the same."
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KA4KOE on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AE6IP:

Marty, I concur. QST is a good way to pass the time during thinking periods in the water closet, to put it politely.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ spews:

"In the mean while, why don't you provide us all with two complete verifiable lists of the countries that have dropped their Morse testing and the countries that didn't."

KC0JTC pulled this together...

"As of the third of January this was the list of countries that had dropped morse code requirement.

Austia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, liechenstein, Lithuania, Luxemberg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, United Kingdom, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Singapore. No it isn't everybody but it is a substantial list. "

And it is a sure bet, after looking at this list of countries, and knowing full well that the FCC will likely adopt a variation of the ARRL recommendation, most countries will follow suit with the US, UK, etc. The term "most" means what 165 or more? "Most" countries have no extensive infrastructure available to administrate RF. Instead, they simply pattern their systems by aligning with the 'majors.' I'll bet AG4RQ's next paycheck that most will likely pattern their systems after the countries on this list--plus the US system--especially after the FCC makes its edict known.
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by N0FP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ spews:

"In the mean while, why don't you provide us all with two complete verifiable lists of the countries that have dropped their Morse testing and the countries that didn't."

Funny thing is, I cannot find any countries that have looked at this and decided to keep it. Anybody know of any country that examined the treaty and decided to retain substantive testing of CW?
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3ULS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Tom, W8JI, laments the fact that the Board did not see fit to address the issue of mandatory subbands on 160.

I would recommend to the ARRL's BOD that it consider recommending to the FCC TWO subband set-asides, not just the 160 meter one. The second set-aside--following the lead of Scott, W4PA, the top end of 75 might be a good place--should be reserved for cantankerous nostalgia buffs to vent their spleen against the ARRL and life in general.

Those of us who can do without venting spleen can have the rest of the HF ham frequencies for more positive uses.

73,
John, W3ULS
 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N0FP on January 22, 2004:
"KC0JTC pulled this together...

"As of the third of January this was the list of countries that had dropped morse code requirement.

Austia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, liechenstein, Lithuania, Luxemberg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, United Kingdom, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Singapore. No it isn't everybody but it is a substantial list. "

And it is a sure bet, after looking at this list of countries, and knowing full well that the FCC will likely adopt a variation of the ARRL recommendation, most countries will follow suit with the US, UK, etc. The term "most" means what 165 or more? "Most" countries have no extensive infrastructure available to administrate RF. Instead, they simply pattern their systems by aligning with the 'majors.' I'll bet AG4RQ's next paycheck that most will likely pattern their systems after the countries on this list--plus the US system--especially after the FCC makes its edict known."


I also said give me the 2 verifiable lists once a year passes in July, and again after 2 years. Don't give me your speculations. Your speculations along with $2 will get you on the New York City Subway. Give me the facts when they're in. As for my paycheck, why should I work when welfare seems so much more desirable? It also seems to be keeping with the "gimme something for nothing" mentality that is prevailing in ham radio these days. MONEY FOR NOTHING AND YOUR CHECKS FOR FREE. Kind of like LICENSE FOR NOTHING AND YOUR RADIOS FOR FREE.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WH7EM on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm really glad I got my license — yeah, my no-code tech license — before I got a chance to read the comments here. Otherwise I might have concluded that this hobby is full of people with prehensile tails and found some other pastime. Who knows, it might have even made me buy a CB rig or something.

I don't mind people trashing each other that much about Morse code — it's not a religion or anything that can actually start a war — but let's get the important stuff right, at least:

"Money for nuthin' and chicks for free."

These are lyrics by Dire Straits, one of the greatest bands of all time. It's about chicks, folks, not checks.

Go ahead and shoot back, but I just passed my code test last night. 10-4, good buddy, and may all yer ups and downs be between the sheets.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, all of us involved knew it was a DIRE STRAITS SONG!

You missed the joke!

I will give you the rest of the song satire!

Guitar:lead riff
Chorus: I WANT MY, I WANT MY, I WANT MY HAM-CB!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0VFP on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am pleased with the ARRL proposal. I feel my membership has paid off. I have honestly tried to learn code for over 10 long years. I passed the General class written back in 1998.

I am looking forward to now getting on HF.

Lloyd
N0VFP

 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3DCG on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey, yeah! That's it! The US is often viewed by other nations as arrogant, wasteful, and that's putting it lightly.

We should FOLLOW everyone else for a change.
We really need to get with the times, and admit to the rest of the world, that they beat us to the punch, that we are in fact LATE instead of EARLY, or FIRST.

The US tradition of international LEADERSHIP is a tradition we MUST discontinue, beginning with CW!

Let us be the LAST country to FOLLOW suit. This way we'll be stubborn in our admission that we were wrong, but in the end, we'll have conceded, we were wrong to keep the Code for so long.

We either LEAD by stubbornly INCREASING CW requirements, or else, we are S-uh-loh in getting around to the conclusion that the rest of the world HAS MADE FOR US, that the importance of CW is truly NOT IMPORTANT to the identity of Amateur radio at all, that the time has come to banish this tradition...

I do not mean offense or bad feelings toward members of the non US Earth Ohana.

My point is, we are a sovereign nation, and what we decide to do with our selves is our business.

My frustration stems from the fact that, personally, I believe the US could learn A LOT by adopting policies and attitudes that are prevalent in other countries.

But on this issue, I believe the rest of the world IS WRONG.

Once again, it comes down to those in power having all the money, convincing the rest of the world first, that they should do something that will result in profit.

One of the virtues of any great nation, has generally been their resolve keeping their position where it is, despite how the rest of the world sees it.

Hey I am not next saying China was doing the right thing at Tianamen square. But one must consider, they have billions of people, they cannot tolerate mutiny from what they consider to be their young, unwise, children. The rest of the world looked on in astonishment. China's wisened attitude- Mind Your Own Business, got a problem with it, whatcha gonna do about it? We do not tell you how to discipline your children.

Look on the shelves in Wal Mart, Target, etc etc. You know what else? Geesh, thanks to China all my kids have bicycles, and, they are very nice bicycles considering what they cost. Compared to 30 years ago, they are just plain wonderful, even though they cost less than half as much.

What does this have to do with CW?
Nothing.
It has to do with the virtues of being stubborn.

That the rest of the world has decided to do something, does not in and of itself, justify righteousness.

The best answers and solutions, are often, not popular.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by W3DCG on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
BTW, Dire Straits sure does rank, indeed. Mark Knopfler's guitar work is suh-weet.

Much wisdom to be gleaned from Rush, however, if you can get past Getty Lee's shrill screaming voice. The lyrics speak volumes.

And my chick- goes for guys who like CW. But perhaps, like me, she grew up mainstream while gravitating towards the fringes.

(I about died laughing at the Money For Nothing take off- HOO HAH! Hat's off to you, OM!)
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by WH7EM on January 22, 2004:
"I'm really glad I got my license — yeah, my no-code tech license — before I got a chance to read the comments here. Otherwise I might have concluded that this hobby is full of people with prehensile tails and found some other pastime. Who knows, it might have even made me buy a CB rig or something.

Welcome to ham radio. You won't need a CB. All the CBers are going ham.

"Don't mind people trashing each other that much about Morse code — it's not a religion or anything that can actually start a war — but let's get the important stuff right, at least:

"Money for nuthin' and chicks for free."

I know. I just had to taylor the lyrics for my post.

"These are lyrics by Dire Straits, one of the greatest bands of all time."

I agree. I like "Sultans of Swing" best.

"Go ahead and shoot back, but I just passed my code test last night."

Congrats on passing the code test. You did things the right way. Like I said, welcome to ham radio.

 
RE: ARRL PROPOSAL - Code-Free!  
by DUPANOUS on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Congratulations to the ARRL for taking such a progressive stance in their recent proposal to the FCC. It's refreshing to see an organization with such history be able to keep in step and move with the times.

I was waiting to see what their stance would be before joining ARRL. Well, I'm now convinced, and just signed up to be a member. 3 other Technician class license holders I know will also be joining too. Many, many more throughout the US will follow suit as well.

WAY TO GO ARRL!

It's a great day for ham radio!

(Inside sources indicate the FCC will adopt the ARRL proposal in it's entirety, with just one modification; elimination of code testing for ALL license classes of amateur radio)

Ham radio's about to change... and for the BETTER!

73,

DJ

 
RE: ARRL Proposes dumbing down of ham radio  
by AG4RQ on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"And it is a sure bet, after looking at this list of countries, and knowing full well that the FCC will likely adopt a variation of the ARRL recommendation, most countries will follow suit with the US, UK, etc. The term "most" means what 165 or more? "Most" countries have no extensive infrastructure available to administrate RF. Instead, they simply pattern their systems by aligning with the 'majors.' I'll bet AG4RQ's next paycheck that most will likely pattern their systems after the countries on this list--plus the US system--especially after the FCC makes its edict known."


The truth is that the United States is the most hated nation on earth. I don't think any nation which hates our guts will want to pattern itself after us. Especially the non-Western nations that can't stand Western values, such as the Arabs and other Asian peoples.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah thats the way you slackers to do it.

Money for nothing and the bands for free!


CHORUS: I WANT MY, I WANT MY, I WANT MY HAM-CB!!!!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K8KHZ on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In reply to W1RFI in regaurds to why the test for general should not be given because the information of testing is irrelevant then why is it that we just don't go to a two level system of license and divide the bandwidth into two areas CW/Non-CW split 50/50 of the phone band. Meaning General and Extra. This would make more sense since the Tecnicians would not need element 3 information according to your opinion? Would this be a sensible solution?


Sean K8KHZ
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N6JSX on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again.... it's inevitable that something of this new plan will happen. It will get more HF rigs sold and $$$ are all that maters. This will not bring in youth - it will just make the lazy no coders happy.

But what burns my butt is the ARRL totally dumping any reason for a Novice to upgrade. Only give this new Novice class the top 50 KHz. in each of the SSB bands. Yes, it will be crowded - what better way to get them off their tails and study and upgrade - heck they don't even have to learn code - they can Bash book memorize the simple General test!!! Also restrict Novices to below 440 MHz. as a SAFETY item. It doesn't take to much power at 900 & 1.2 gig to cause you serious RF burns.

Only give Generals 50 KHz. more than Novices and make the Extra area the LARGEST SSB area in the repective bands - this would give Genrals a reason to upgrade.

I still feel that Extra should mean something more that 5 WPM. 50 question test can be Bash booked/memorized. Make the test a 100 or 150 question test something that they truely need to LEARN not memorize. Also ONLY allow Extra's to become repeater licensee's and ONLY Extra's can run HF amplifiers over 250 Watts. Get some incentive and common sense back into the licensing program.

Most of the posts are right - soon it will be a mail order license just like the old CB days - until they went to no license. ARRL sure disappoints me - but that's why I quit many years ago due to their intentional fumble of the 220 band for Novice Enhancement.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by KC9FAC on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>LDMR (Large Dangerous Model Rockets,) proficiency is
>tested for by actually launching an LDMR under
>supervision.

Yes, I've done that. Actually it's called HPR
(High-power Rocketry). I am certified by NAR,
the National Association of Rocketry.
The acronym you refer to is really LDRS,
Large Dangerous Rocket Ships, and
it's actually an in-joke as there has never
been a fatality in HPR when conducted under
the safety code.

KC9FAC
NAR 75824 HPR L1
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by KG4OLW on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
With cell phones and the internet today, their is really no reason for people to get into amateur radio except for a hobby and fun. I took the tech test and passed it and the general test without ever looking at the general questions, they were almost the same as the tech questions. I know plenty of extras who will flat out say they only took the 20wpm extra test just to have the highest license and that they forgot cw as soon as the test was over. Why should americans be deprived of HF just because they don't like cw and will never use it. Why should they be made to learn it. Better yet why would any person today have any incentive to get into ham radio when they can talk across the world on a cell phone or through the internet a million times over for the cost of an introductory HF rig. Ham radio is not even state of the art anymore, if we don't catch up we will fade away. Besides Japan has done away with morse for 30 years and has 1/4 of the worlds amateurs. As for the "this will be like cb" crap I talk on 2 meter and 440 repeaters during commute all day long and more than a few hold extra class licenses. My experience has been that they are some of the most polite people you will ever meet. I don't see why HF will change their behavior any. My final comment is this. If I today were just flat out given full HF access, I would not be able to get on hf for at least a year probably more. HF gear is expensive and i can barely aford a dual band vhf/uhf mobile. I think you will find that the influx of people to hf will be regulated by the speed of which manufactures can keep up with the demand and peoples budgets.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KC9FAC on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>Much wisdom to be gleaned from Rush, however, if you
>can get past Getty Lee's shrill screaming voice. The
>lyrics speak volumes.

Rush rules.

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will."




 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2NZJ on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I CAN BE VERY SURE THE FCC WILL ACT VERY VERY VERY SLOWLY ON THIS DOCKET. OTHER MAJOR COUNTRIES ACTED VERY TIMELY AND EXPEDIENTLY.their radio amateur community DID NOT WHINE AND SCREAM LIKE A BUNCH OF BABIES IN A PLAY PEN.they accepted their countries decision to DROP ELEMENT ONE AND UPGRADE THE B CLASS TO A CLASS LICENSE WITHOUT A MAJOR "RUCKUS". I COMMEND THESE COUNTRIES AND THEIR radio amateur community. we should follow suit as well. I HOPE THIS DOCKET PASSES FOR THE GOOD CONCERNED.(QUICKLY). 73 TOM N2NZJ ARRL MEMBER AND VERY PROUD OF IT.
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by K4XXG on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I would really hate to see the loss of the Novice CW sub-bands. I absolutely love CW, but I am horrible at it. These little slices of spectrum are where I feel comfortable at least trying to develop some skill.

I suppose eventually, as the phone portions become congested, what spectrum that's left for CW will be too full of data to use for the "ancient art".

Then again, the FCC may hold off re-farming until Nextel determines if they can improve their coverage area using HF links. Keep watching those QST ads... Direct Connect may be the REAL future of HAM radio :-0.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N8EMA on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Look at it this way Boys and Girls, 5,10 years from now Ham Radio may not be around! the older hams are becoming silent keys, the younger hams are not active anymore, and the "new hams" to be, are not interested! they have a computer and cell phones to talk all over the world! why do they need ham radio? they dont! the ham radio public is diminishing quicker than you think. I feel this is a very good step forward to saving the Amature Radio hobby.

Jeff
N8EMA
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by AE6IP on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Yes, I've done that. Actually it's called HPR
> (High-power Rocketry).

Depends on who you talk to. ;)

> I am certified by NAR, the National Association
> of Rocketry.

I'm starting out to get certified by Tripoli

> The acronym you refer to is really LDRS,
> Large Dangerous Rocket Ships,

Well, not really, since LDRS is the name of a Tripoli annual event. LDRS XXIII is going to be in NY state, I believe.

> and it's actually an in-joke as there has never
> been a fatality in HPR when conducted under
> the safety code.

safety is your friend.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by NE0P on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If no one is active and ham radio is dying, then why do we keep hearing all of the complaining about how the bands are packed during contests, interfering with ragchewing and nets? I have been hearing this "Ham Radio is dying" crap since I was licensed in 1980 (at age 13). It just isn't so. We have more hams today than ever before, and the bands have more activity than ever before. True hams don't get a ham license just because they want to talk to family members. They like the thrill of communication with others they don't yet know. That is why cell phones will not replace ham radio.

Show me one award you can earn by having a cell phone conversation with all 50 states. The US cellular bill doesn't count.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose another way to dilute the amat  
by N8VB on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
K8JX wrote:

"This country needs engineers, not users!"

Nah, there are a huge supply of engineers in India that will work for 10% of what an American engineer would work for.

N8VB
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N8VB on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N2NZJ wrote:

"DID NOT WHINE AND SCREAM LIKE A BUNCH OF BABIES IN A PLAY PEN."

Ha ha. Now thats funny.

N8VB
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by WB8NUT on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Money does talk - you're right. Less than 200,000 hams are members of the ARRL out of over 600,000 hams in the U.S. Because 400,000 have decided to be freeloading cheapasses, the ARRL has proposed a way to get new members. Now for all you whiners, if you are the other freeloaders had joined the ARRL so that the ARRL had 500,000+ members, we would not be discussing this proposal. You reap what you sow.

>>>"Talk about a slap in the face? Talk about a betrayal? The ARRL is looking to hand no-code Technicians a free upgrade to General. It is obvious that the ARRL sees the future of ham radio with the no-coders, and is kicking the rest of us where we sit. Members = Money. Money talks. B***S*** walks. My ARRL membership expires this August. I will give serious thought to this issue at renewal time. After this, all the ARRL means to me is QST and the "members only" TIS pages on their web site. I don't need the propagation report and the ARRL Letter e-mailed to me. That stuff is published right here on e-Ham. I can think of loads of things I can do with $39 a year. To say I'm "up in arms" is putting it mildly."

Amen!!! W8VOM<<<
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by N0PGI on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I give this proposal a double thumbs-up!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KI4CYB on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Being a new ham (general) AND a member of the ARRL, I will NOT RENEW next year!

-To easy for Techs to jump to general (no effort at all) NO-TEST, NO-CW NOTHING!!!!
Sure makes me proud to be a General now! I feel bad for Extras!!!

-To much HF band space allocated to no code techs.
If it Techs were to be given HF space it should be less!!!


So yes, next year no more ARRL from me! I will move toward cheapo side.. With my cheapo
existing general ticket.

73 de KI4CYB

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AD5X on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Folks – This is just a proposal. Just like lots of other proposals out there. The FCC will put this out for comment, and you can comment on what you like or don’t like about it. Then after that, the FCC will look at this and all the other proposals and all the associated comments, and over some (probably long) period of time will put out a Notice of Proposed Rule Making. Then there will be another “comment” and “reply comment” period. And then we’ll get the “final answer” from the FCC. There could be some sort of declaratory rule about the code earlier, but who knows? In any case, the FCC final rulemaking will be based on all these inputs, all the comments, and then whatever the FCC wants to do. Having a heart attack over each of these individual proposals seems counter-productive to me. Personally, I like this proposal. It is almost exactly what I proposed to the ARRL (yes – my comments were asked for).

A BIG problem with the Incentive Licensing plan was that everyone except Extra Class licensees lost privileges. This, as most of you know, caused tremendous backlash towards the ARRL. However, many here want to downgrade Techs to Novices, but don’t have a problem with upgrading Advanced to Extras. Why is that? You’re decreasing privileges for some, and increasing them for others. Seems discriminatory to me.

Some have said that we’re going to turn loose Techs who don’t know anything onto the HF bands with legal limit amplifiers. I passed my General in 1964 when I was in 9th grade. Do you think I had a clue as to what “over-modulated signals on an oscilloscope” meant when I didn’t even know what an oscilloscope was? And how many 9th graders knew what was meant by “Grid current flow in a Class A amplifier indicates either excessive excitation voltage or low negative grid bias”. But I memorized this, passed my General, and I could get on the air with full legal limit (if I had the money). But – getting that ham license stimulated my curiosity in electronics leading to a good career in engineering for me. The ham license made me want to understand what I had memorized. So a one-time upgrade/consolidation of license classes seems like a good idea to me. Maybe it will stimulate more folks to learn about what they’ve memorized.

Incidentally, I was a Novice for about 6 months prior to getting my General. There was a section of existing hams who wouldn’t talk to me because I wasn’t a real ham – since I didn’t take the exam in front of an FCC Examiner and only had to learn morse code at 5 wpm.

There will undoubtedly be other proposals, and other heated discussions about them. But what will count the most are the combinations of these proposals and the comments and reply comments to the FCC (assuming the comments are rational).

Phil – AD5X
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Phil,

How would anyone be downgraded? Novice is just a word. The ARRL might have dug a hole for itself by using the term but the reality is that the beginner, novice, apprentice, class C, or what ever you want to call the proposed license will, in fact, carry a whole lot more privileges on HF than are now available to all categories of Tech an the present Novice license holder. This would actually be a tremendous upgrade for all these licensees. I think the problem here is more of semantics and titles.

Of course, the ARRL might have a very difficult time back tracking on its proposal as it might be construed that they had promised something and are now backing out of the promise. On the other hand, it is not the ARRL who will grant the privileges in the end and the FCC might have other ideas.

I still believe that all the controversy being generated over the ARRL's proposal has more to do with giving the General to no code Techs than it does with giving HF access privileges via a no code license. The ARRL can go a long way to quiet this down by making a small change in the proposal, even if it may be difficult to face up to it.

73
George
K3UD
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AD6WL on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
When the ARRL came up with incentive licensing in the 60s there were a lot of hams that lost some of their operating privileges. Many hams were and still are bitter about it to this day. The ARRL made a lot of enemies at that time.

In the current proposal the ARRL is trying to do the impossible; they are trying to make everyone happy. If the ARRL doesn’t upgrade current Techs to General then the current Techs will be loosing some operating privileges. Yes, they will gain a lot of HF but they will loose a lot of UHF and decreased power on VHF/UHF. So, in order to avoid upsetting them they get an automatic upgrade to General. Future New Novices will have to take the General exam to upgrade, but they will be taking an easier entry exam than what the current Techs are taking.

I, personally, would like to see all current Techs take the element 3 and element 1 exam. But the ARRL is looking to please the majority of hams not just me. Also, I don’t think the FCC would go along with element 1 for the General class license, but I do believe that they will agree with element 1 for the Extra class license.

They won’t make everyone happy with this proposal, but I think it should make the majority of hams happy. It is a proposal that I can accept as the best compromise for all groups.

73, Jim
AD6WL
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N2MG on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W4PA wrote:
> I gotta admit that the thought of unleashing
> thousands of brand-new 100 watt no-code HFers onto
> the top end of 75m SSB makes me chuckle a little.

You got that right.

Just how much fun will they have surrounded by KW-running, foul-mouthed jabber-jaws? Sheesh, a perfect place for the newbies to hang out. If my first taste of ham radio was HF phone, I think I would have given it up. Stations operating in the Novice CW bands were much more well-mannered!

Indeed, the newbies can do little damage to that part of the band.

Mike N2MG
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by K3UD on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Jim,

This can also be fixed with an ammended proposal. The FCC can and has changed requirements for licensing over the years. What's wrong with giving existing Tech classes and Novice all amateur privileges above 50mhz as well of the new privileges as proposed on HF?

There have been concernes posted that the allocations above 70cm might turn into ghost towns anyway as the those who get HF privileges migrate to the low bands.

The problem, as I see it is in the RFI exposure testing.However, this was on the Novice exam before it was discontinued, Existing Novices did not have to be tested on it and were allowed to use 200W PEP output on 10, Probably most existing technicians were never tested on it but never had to be retested in order to keep KW level output privileges.

I still think something can be crafted where nothing someone had is lost, (other than the 50khz of exclusive Extra phone band privileges, but almost no one is screaming about that) and everyone else gains something
without giving away the General Class license.

73
George
K3UD
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by K3UD on January 23, 2004:
"I still believe that all the controversy being generated over the ARRL's proposal has more to do with giving the General to no code Techs than it does with giving HF access privileges via a no code license. The ARRL can go a long way to quiet this down by making a small change in the proposal, even if it may be difficult to face up to it."

BINGO! GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!

 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KG6AMW on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Just nothing but arrogant self centered fearful bitching and whoa is me bullsh-t about what the ARRL did or didn’t do and "oh the hoards are comming" tripe. I’ve never seen a group of people more self absorbed as you a--holes.

KG6AMW
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W4DBX on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Someone is not thinking,

If you give the Tech and Tech+ General Class license, then why would you not give the Generals the Extra Class license since they have passed 5 WPM?
Moving the Generals would be the same as moving the Tech and Tech+ up a class without testing them.

The best way if you are going to restructure is for the Tech and Tech+ Class to be given the New Novice Class and letting the Generals and Extras stay the same.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
To all those ARRL members that call non ARRL members cheapskates.......

Let me do a pun on a DOOR's song.....


WE GOT THE FUNDS, AND WE GOT THE NUMBERS!....YEAH!

The ARRL hams are a MINORITY!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH hurls:

The ARRL hams are a MINORITY!


An interesting and very true observation. What is absolutely amazing to me is the pride you use when you call yourself a lazy, low-down, free-loader. About 50 posts up the list some turkey boasted about being on welfare and screwing the system. There was pride in the tone of his post. I am amazed at how caloused people can be to the way they appear to society at large. I am ashamed to say I know you...
 
RE: ARRL Proposal OK, BUT......  
by K1CJS on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ed,
After reading the posts made since my last, I reluctantly agree that the ARRL proposal would probably be the best compromise all around. I glossed over the reductions the Techs would be subject to in being transferred to the new novice class, and to avoid another 'incentive licensing' debacle a couple of decades ago (the loss of privileges to certain license classes), the ARRL HAS covered all bases and taken all all present license classes and licensees into consideration before proposing this.

I joined the ARRL five or six years ago, lapsed for a year and have been a member since then. I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE ARRL. They really are looking toward a bright future for amateur radio.

Thanks and 73, Chris J Smith, K1CJS
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by N0FP on January 23, 2004:
"About 50 posts up the list some turkey boasted about being on welfare and screwing the system. There was pride in the tone of his post. I am amazed at how caloused people can be to the way they appear to society at large. I am ashamed to say I know you..."

Are you talking about me when I posted:

"As for my paycheck, why should I work when welfare seems so much more desirable? It also seems to be keeping with the "gimme something for nothing" mentality that is prevailing in ham radio these days. MONEY FOR NOTHING AND YOUR CHECKS FOR FREE. Kind of like LICENSE FOR NOTHING AND YOUR RADIOS FOR FREE."


If you ARE talking about me, you must be the stupidest person alive! To take a satirical statement like that seriously! It would be impossible for me to collect welfare. In the State of Florida, the only welfare available is AFDC - Aid to Families with Dependent Children, which is made available to single mothers (or fathers) who are deprived of the support of their child(ren) due to the absence of the other parent from the home. I am married with no children.
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0FP, Ham Radio is not my life! I never said I was lazy.

I do much pro bono work in NYC. I have a hard job, and I am going for a PHd.

You know nothing of me at all.


My passport says U.S. of A on it. I am entitled to free speech, as do you!

Some ham made the ARRL out to be a religion.

He was half right. The numbers speak for themselfs!

If the ARRL was such a utopia, why would over 500,000
not join. The reason is ULTRA clear!

In the U.S. it is that the majority rules.

I would rather give $1000 to a soup kitchen for the homeless. I hope that does not offend you!!!!!!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> This can also be fixed with an ammended proposal.
> The FCC can and has changed requirements for
> licensing over the years. What's wrong with giving
> existing Tech classes and Novice all amateur
> privileges above 50mhz as well of the new privileges
> as proposed on HF?

Over the years, our entry-level licensing has evolved from the days when I studied 3.5 essentially non-technical pages to get licensed as a Novice (http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/novice63.html) to the point where the Technician license now takes a 200-page study guide to do the same thing. The ARRL proposal seeks to return to something about halfway in between the two. That is the reason that the League proposal limited the power of the Novice class to levels at or below that which would require an RF-safety evaluation and limited frequencies below that which would require the beginner to answer questions about microwave technlogy. There should be questions about RF safety in the pool, but they will not have to cover the specifics of an RF-safefy evaluation that hams won't have to do at those power levels.

Adding all spectrum would require that there be questions about microwave techniques and operating, taking us almost all the way back to the Tech exams we have right now.

> I still think something can be crafted where nothing
> someone had is lost, (other than the 50khz of
> exclusive Extra phone band privileges, but almost no
> one is screaming about that) and everyone else gains
> something without giving away the General Class
> license.

Not without either requiring Technicians to give up privileges (the major mistake of the incentive-licensing restructuring of the latter part of the 20th century) or by keeping the Tech in some form, keeping a large group of hams in the VHF-only area. I cannot think of a way that does it without adding complexity to a proposal that will still result in one of the more complex licensing structures in the world.

I don't believe that the scope of the Tech and General exams are as far apart as the scope the Novice and Tech exams, and the present Tech is probably more technical than the General I passed in 1964 after studying a 16-page study guide as my only study material.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI



 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> If the ARRL was such a utopia, why would over
> 500,000 not join. The reason is ULTRA clear!

Yes, it is ultra clear; the majority of those that do not join are not active in amateur radio. The last time I looked at the membership percentage of those that post to eham.net by sampling 100 call signs in a row, the percentage of current membership was about 65%. As I have done so for other forums, I have seen 50-80% every time. The highest I ever saw, 80%, was on 100 calls seen on news://rec.radio.amateur.equipment.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Future New Novices will have to take the General
> exam to upgrade, but they will be taking an easier
> entry exam than what the current Techs are taking.

There is no reason at all that the scope of the General exam should change. IIUC, the only change in scope to the General will be the removal of Element 1. IMHO, the General should retain the present level of technical knowledge.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH responded:

"I would rather give $1000 to a soup kitchen for the homeless. I hope that does not offend you!!!!!! "


But I bet you haven't given $39 to that soup kitchen. Offended? It ain't possible. I take great pride in having you stick your tongue out at me. Looking at the list of off-topic blather you have spewed into this thread, I can see that your thoughtless quips are as meaningless as your "I hate the ARRL and you should too" opinions. As far as you taking pride in being included in the equally thoughtless, free-loading, low-down public, some day you may grow up and actually try to rise to the level of mediocrity, instead of choosing to remain with the 'bottom feeding' masses.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by W1RFI on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> But what burns my butt is the ARRL totally dumping
> any reason for a Novice to upgrade.

If I were a Novice under the new proposal, getting access to 20 meters alone would be more than enough reason to upgrade.

> Only give this new Novice class the top 50 KHz. in
> each of the SSB bands. Yes, it will be crowded -
> what better way to get them off their tails and
> study and upgrade

That would be more phone spectrum than in the ARRL proposal, and no CW/digital spectrum at all.

> - heck they don't even have to learn code - they can
> Bash book memorize the simple General test!!!

There are currently about 400 questions in the General pool. I could not memorize 400 of anything without learning the underlying concepts. If you think it all that easy, prove me wrong and memorize the spelling of 400 words in Russian. :-)

> Also restrict Novices to below 440 MHz. as a SAFETY
> item. It doesn't take to much power at 900 & 1.2 gig
> to cause you serious RF burns.

That is the reason that ARRL proposed a 50 watt limit on VHF and UHF and didn't propose any privileges above 70 cm . . .

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
 
ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free  
by WA2JJH on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N0FP, I have given much to charity! The ARRL is not a charity case!
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by AG4RQ on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Do you notice who N0FP has been targeting with his hate campaign? W8VOM, WA2JJH, AG4RQ - all of us who are critical of the ARRL and their jackass proposal to give away the keys to the city.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by N0FP on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AG4RQ wrote:

"Do you notice who N0FP has been targeting with his hate campaign? W8VOM, WA2JJH, AG4RQ - all of us who are critical of the ARRL and their jackass proposal to give away the keys to the city. "


Wow! You are brighter than I thought. It's always good to hear from another bottom-feeder... You, and others like you, have chosen to not be involved. You have no voice. Keep it on topic and thoughtful and I'll leave you alone. Littering the thread with blather opens you up to criticism.
 
RE: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-  
by KD2KU on January 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
by W1RFI on January 22, 2004

> According to their petition, Nancy Kott is the North
> American Director of FISTS. She is also the editor
> of WorldRadio, no? Have any pro-ARRL proposal folks
> dropped their subscription to WorldRadio? I hope
> not, because I am