Remember When?

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Remember When?

Alan Jones (W4LGH) on February 21, 2004
View comments about this article!

Remember when it really meant something to be a Ham Radio Operator? Remember how proud you felt, when you finally passed the exam and got your ticket? Remember hooking up some junkie old equipment, throwing a wire up in a tree and making your first contact? I do!

People now say, we need more youth in the hobby. I agree, we do, but lets be realistic! How many 12 to 20 year olds can go out and afford to buy HF equipment? How many of this same age group, have the time to devote to Ham Radio? How many of this same age group had/have the privilege of growing up in a family owned electronic business? (This day and time most 12 to 20 year olds don't really know their parents.) Current times require both parents to work.

Times change, people change, hobbies change. This is all part of life. And now the ARRL is changing. It used to be an organization that supported Ham Radio. It grew and grew into "Big Business" over the years, and created many new high paying jobs for the select few. It needs the DUES to pay these salaries, trips to nice places, super hotels to say in etc. The mass majority of Hams this day and age are Technician class operators; they want them as members, dues paying members, so they can continue to keep their high paying jobs, trips, and fancy hotel rooms.

Why is it when people say, "They can't do something", and cry about it, we feel the need to make it easier, so they can. Despite the fact that our government says, "All people are CREATED equal " Some have taken that to mean that we ARE equal. People are NOT equal, this is why some are doctors, some are lawyers, some do GREAT things and others do BAD things. It's a fact of life.

I have no problem in doing away with the CW requirement. Personally I never enjoyed it, although there are many that do, and they can continue to enjoy it. I was raised in a different time, was told you would never appreciate something until you worked for it and earned it. As I got older, I learned this to be true.

What the ARRL has proposed is basically to give in to this group of people, no need to EARN anything. Because they want a license they should have it. I do NOT agree.

Go ahead and drop element 1 for TECH and GENERAL class licenses, they can drop it for EXTRA for all I care, but KEEP the written elements in tact! One MUST do something to EARN their license in order to respect and appreciate it.

I think its time we (ARRL members) take a hard look at the organization we belong to, and revaluate its role. The multi-tier license system was developed to allow someone to get into the hobby, LEARN about the hobby and GROW with the hobby.

Giving it away will NOT KEEP it alive, it will make a mass growth in the beginning, but it will ultimately KILL it in the long run.

This is just my opinion, and I am sure there are many others that will agree and those who'll disagree, that's your right.

This day and age of just giving things away has go to stop. Because someone wants to be a police officer, are you going to just give him or her a gun, badge and cruiser and turn him or her lose in the world? Something to think about…

73 to all, and STUDY to upgrade that license!

W4LGH -- Alan

Member Comments:

This article has expired. No more comments may be added.

Remember When?

by KI4CUU on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Are we to understand these articles are actually vetted by editors before they're posted? Yikes!

Remember When?

by LNXAUTHOR on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

- this article is obviously not targeted at me, as "remember when" only stretches back to April 2003...

- from what i understand, HF equipment is more powerful, feature-filled, and less expensive than at any time in the history of amateur radio

- i certainly agree that stringent testing is required for entry and upgrade for licensing, but the fact is that:

The learning process starts AFTER one acquires a license.

- if one were to truly test new licensees on skills and knowledge, then the licensing process should include a checklist of 'practical skills' that needed to be demonstrated hands-on, and then verified by the signature of three VEs or other amateur radio operators of a higher license class - perhaps this would add 'elmering' to the service/hobby as part of licensing? (this is an approach used by some military services as part of advancement through the ranks)

- i don't agree with all of the ARRL's 'new' licensing proposal, but i will welcome any and all new hams - however a license is acquired...

Remember When?

by SSBDX on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

whine, whine, whine!

Get Real

by WPE9JRL on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

How many 12-year olds can afford an HF radio?

Get real.

This is not 1936, it is the year 2004.

My son's 13 and 14 year old friends have the money to buy their own prepaid cellphone: $100-$200 dollars, the latest PlayStation games: $30-$$80 a pop (and they probably have a dozen or more!).....they have $120 shoes to play 8th-Grade basketball.....the list goes on and on.

Please, keep up with the times. Ham Radio has been evolving and changing since its inception. The license restructuring is now only beginning to catch up with the rest of the world, the state of the art, the interest level (or lack thereof) in radio itself.

I will be welcoming all and any newcomers to our bands as they appear with their new HF priveleges. I question what kind of "welcome" they will get from people like you.

RE: Get Real

by K1OU on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Great, another article to foster bitching and ranting. By the way, did you hear that W9WHE cancelled his ARRL membership?

RE: Remember When?

by N6TGK on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I don't think money is so much of an issue. Any new HAM can easily get a decent HF radio for under $1000 and spend even less on a dipole or multiband vertical. I perceive part of the problem being with practicality. Parents are going to be more willing to spend that kind of money on a good computer...something the whole family can use. They feel that the computer will be more educational and entertaining...games, the Internet and so on. As for older people, I think the problem is time. American society is too obsessed with money. Today BOTH parents have to work to make ends meet. Then on weekends they're too busy doing chores around the house or hauling little Johnny to this soccer game or that little league game. Besides, reducing the code requirement for HF isn't going to do much of anything. There will be the initial upsurge in applicants at the beginning as the people who complained about CW rush to get their licenses. After that, the number of new HAMS will drop again. And these new HAMS will never advance to the rank of Extra because they were too lazy to learn the code then and will be too lazy to learn it later.

RE: Get Real

by K0BG on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's called "dumming down", and amateur radio is just one facit of a much larger picture in this respect. Once upon a time the Wall Street Journal was aimed at a grade 12 reading level. It is about 7th or 8th grade nowadays. One could list numerous examples, but the fact remains; not only are we expunging the middle class, we're expunging the middle intellect as well. Maybe it's time to reread the "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire".

Alan, KØBG

RE: Get Real

by WD8WV on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

In response to WPE9JRL:

"My son's 13 and 14 year old friends have the money to buy their own prepaid cellphone: $100-$200 dollars, the latest PlayStation games: $30-$$80 a pop (and they probably have a dozen or more!).....they have $120 shoes to play 8th-Grade basketball.....the list goes on and on."

The reason for this is because the parents have more money than they know what to do with. These kids haven't earned this money. Kids now a days won't even get out in the summer and cut grass. Those kids who have this stuff are not your common kids from common families. My son doesn't wear $120 shoes, he has a prepaid TracFone that I bought for him but the inital cost was only around $60.00 at Wal-Mart and maybe he gets a play station game once in about 2 or 3 months. The everyday kid could not afford any new equipment unless mom and dad bought it for him. If he does yard work in the summer or chores around the house to earn money he might save up the money to buy some used equipment.

What a great time we live in, it will be an exciting time to see what the FCC does! I am glad that I have my full blown ticket and don't have to worry about whether I have to take code or if I will have a question pool to study from. I worked for what I have and am proud of my accomplishments. I have respect for those who worked harder than me to obtain their license.

If ham radio dies it will be over all this junk going on. The name calling crap that keeps going on back and forth on these forums shows a big division in the ranks of Amateur Radio. My personal opinion is that Amateur Radio won't die, it will just become a hobby like every other hobby. There will always be some in the hobby, maybe not the big numbers that shows up on the ARRL website, remember most of them are Tech's that came from the No-Code Tech restructioning. That is who the League is trying to attract.

Everywhere you look and listen, there is a steady increase in the hobby, but not like what was seen in the mid 90's. Maybe we need a Smokey and the Bandit movie, using ham radio instead of CB's to get our hobby promoted. Just imagine, everyone in the country will have a radio in their car and truck. WOW! wouldn't that be grand!

My two cents worth as usual.
Juddie WD8WV

One More Thing

by WPE9JRL on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Let's rewind the tape to 1971.....the year I got my ticket at age 15.

I heard the same old, tired jazz from the old-timers at that time (thirty-three years ago!).....

It was the same old lament about the youngsters getting into the hobby:

"You can't even grind your own crystals"

"You don't know how to bend a chassis?"

"I wound my own coils when I started!"

"We had to draw schematics on our FCC exam"

And on, and on ......and on and on it goes.

This kind of culture has been bred into the hobby for decades. I would encourage the author to keep an open mind that the new licensing requirement only reflects the state art. Welcome the newcomers. Mentor them on the air. Guide them. I will be doing just that.

Remember When?

by W8OB on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yes I remember, and I hope I never forget. It was a time when ham radio seemed like magic, there was no easy cheap long distance on the telephones, no internet, hardly any TV reception ( you watched the dog sled races at the north pole for 3 hours to get 10 min of video if you were lucky). Sadly people are much different today they refuse to work for anything and politicians to gain vote's cave in all the time. Having a business to run I can tell you first hand that every summer only about 1 out of 10 kids looking for a job are willing to work hard and get ahead. The rest are the types you refer to. Yes I expect this article is going to go down in flaming glory.

Remember When?

by AB2OL on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

FB OM,

I found the Extra exam I took in 2002 challenging. I had to study and learn things I didn't perviously know, as well as things not on the exam. I went the next step and got my CW up to 20-25WPM, I learned how to solder surface mount components (at least the ones you don't need to uitilize solder wave equipment for).

Yes, some things have changed with the times. we no longer grind xtals, or even use them in some cases. Tubes are rarely used, unless you are into QRO or boatanchors (and some folks like me don't want to mess with those kinds of voltages either). Computers now play a huge role, both in the rigs, and around them. Instead of having to tune RTTY, formerly a challange, it can now be tuned with a click of the mouse, and have perfect copy. They say you can do that with CW too, but with all the different fist styles out there, I don't see how.

I'm glad technology has simplified much in the hobby, and life in general. But it has also made some things more difficult, see the aforementioned surface mount comments.

While I don't agree with some of what the ARRL proposal reccomends, I don't think the hobby is going to hell in a handbasket. And if you think things are getting too easy.... try some surface mount soldering!

73,
Pat AI4AQ, ex AB2OL

Remember When?

by CWTITAN on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with the article with exception of the CW portion. I want it to stay, and stay at 20wpm for general and up. you people who say CW is dying are living in a glass house and shouldnt throw anti-CW
rocks....Otherwise, great article, very truthful. I too, hire teenagers during the summer, and about 2 out of 30 will work. Last summer a family a couple doors down from me became unemployed and really hurting for the basics...I offered to let the 13 yr old mow my lawn, but he said it was $40.00 each wed and sat. My lawn is very small...and he wouldnt mow it twice a week for $20.00 a shot...with my lawn mower. thats the attitude today...Ham radio is the same now, full of lazy people, not willing to work, no pride at all.

Remember When?

by K3PZ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The way I see it is "easy come, easy go". The newcomers that came into the hobby because it was easy, will soon get bored and will move on to something else. Alot of them will leave just as quickly as they came. That will leave the serious newcomers who will go on to work hard and get that extra class license because they really love the hobby. These will be the people that will stay and contribute to the future of ham radio in a positive way. I look at the new licensing structure as kind of a "teaser" if you will, to get new people into ham radio and give it a shot. Personally, I welcome all newcomers into the hobby but untimately it is up to the more experienced hams to guide, mentor and elmer the newcomers to help them develop into mature radio operators. Remember the only thing that is "constant" is "change". Look at how the ham radio (and the world in general) has changed over the last 50 years. Either we learn how to adapt to the change of ham radio (and the world in general) or we die.

Paul Zora
K3PZ
Port St. Lucie, FL

RE: Remember When?

by KA4KOE on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

YAWN!

Been there. Done that.

RE: Remember When?

by AK4P on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Want a challenge? Here's a link to a web site that shows plans to build a one-tube CW transmitter for 40 or 80 meters. It uses one tube, a 555 timer chip and it runs on 12 Volts DC! The parts can be gotten a number of places, but I recommend Antique Electronic Supply. They have a nice website on the internet. Good luck, and have fun!

http://www.oselectronics.com/downloads/QRP%20Transmitter.pdf

AK4P

Remember When?

by KG4RUL on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hand-built,Spark Gap Transmitters. Hand-made, edge-wound coils. Vacuum tubes with hand-blow envelopes. Hand-drawn wire from copper you smelted yourself.

Now that is true radio.

Give it up man! The times are about to change. Go with the flow or be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!

Dennis - KG4RUL

Remember When?

by KB9YKG on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I thouhgt this horse was dead a long time ago, but hey...lets all keep beating away. Yeah - times have changed - that happens. Did you honestly think things would be exactly the same 40 years after you got your ticket? I grew up in a house where nobody could set the clock on the vcr...but now I work as a technician at several radio stations and for a cellular company - what does one have to do with the other? I did what I had to do to pursue my interests - I associated with people who know about radio and electronics - and I went to college to learn the basics. I also passed the GROL - which most agree is harder than the amateur extra exam. So I've done all this stuff, but until a couple months back I was a no-code tech. Does that mean I know less about Electronics or Radio because I choose not to take the General or Extra exams. One needs to be careful when assuming.

Remember When?

by W4KPA on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Give me a break, Alan. I've been licensed for 29 years and took my 13 WPM CW test not from a sympathetic VE, but in front of tough-as-nails FCC examiner by the name of Angelo Ditty. I've spent the last three decades in a continuing education process. I love the hobby. There is none better.

I'm ready for new people to join. I'll be happy to talk to them, mentor them, and welcome them into this hobby any way that I can. I don't care how hard the test is they have to pass. It doesn't cheapen or threaten what I've achieved. Bring on the new HF operators. Bring them by the truckload. Bring them today.

By the way, ham radio is one of the cheapest hobbies available. Your average 12 to 20 year old has a cell phone and a thousand dollar computer sitting on his desk. A $300, used hf rig is well within his reach. Compared to bass fishing, this is a poor man's hobby.

Remember When?

by N8FVJ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ham radio & hard wired telephone is not the only communications avenue now. Cell phone & the internet provides quick & reliable communications without a license.

Electronics includes computers & electronic games to interest the young thus Ham radio has a lot of competition now. Either provide an easier access to ham radio, or eventually lose the hobby. First to go will be equipment manufactures, then the organizations providing representation.

Unfortunately, ham radio has to provide a level playing field with other services. Either be current with the public desires or 'go away'.

Remember When?

by NJ0E on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

amateur radio is far more affordable than it has ever
been in the past. kids today could much more easily
afford a quality rig than i could as a teen in the
mid 70's.

there is an interesting article in march qst about a
micamold xtr-1 late 1940's vintage transmitter. the
article describes a reasonably nice ENTRY LEVEL ca.
1948 station. in 1948, the cost:

micamold xtr-1 transmitter (crystal control crystals
NOT included, key NOT included also tubes NOT
included), 80-20 meters, cw ONLY - $34

hallicrafters s-40 - poor bandwidth, nor very
sensitive $110

total in 1948 dollars - $144
to adjust for inflation from 1948 -> 2002
is $1,074.63 in 2002 dollars. see:
http://www.cjr.org/tools/inflation/
for a tool to extrapolate from 1948 to today.

for that you got 45 watts on cw ONLY, with crystal
control ONLY, and 80, 40, and 20 meters ONLY; this
is a fairly nice ENTRY LEVEL setup for 1948 -
$1,074.63 in 2002.

in 1977, i bought a kenwood ts520; list price $629.
$629.00 in 1977 dollars becomes $1,872.02 in 2002
dollars (using the same inflation calculator). that
was the BASE kenwood rig at that time; a decent rig;
80, 40, 20, 15, 10 meters; SSB and CW. no 160 meters,
no WARC bands (hadn't received them yet), no am, no
fm, no microphone (yes; in those days rigs came
without even a hand microphone), no built-in
electronic keyer, 500 hz cw filter is an extra cost
item. no general coverage receive. the better
kenwood units of the time were the ts820, and the
kenwood twins; a transmitter and receiver pair.

today, you can get a Ten-Tec Jupiter for $1269;
definitely a mid-tier transceiver, with both voice
and cw capability, a vfo, if dsp, outstanding
dynamic range, 160-10 meters. for an entry level
setup, look at the icom ic-718 or ten-tec argonaut v.

people who describe amateur radio gear as expensive
today are totally uncalibrated to the cost-of-living
or the consumer price index. kids nowdays have
alot more money, as others have mentioned. an hf
rig nowdays would be alot less of a problem for
teens today than it was for me when i was starting
(1975-1977).
73
nj0e

Remember When?

by KC7ATO on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Damn straight! Let's keep things the way they were in them "Gud ole dazes". Bring back Polio, get rid of all those "wemmin" Police Officers, EMT's, Airline Captains oh hell! just kep all "wimmen" barefoot and pregnant like it used to be. While were busy turning back the clock let's end all RACIAL DESEGRATION and go back to "COLORED ONLY" drinking fountains and "back of the bus for you "BOY"! Weren"t they "great" times back then?? As a retired Pilot with 50 years of Military/Commercial flying experience the FAA still requires me to take a biannual flight test to maintain flight privilege's as well as pass a medical exam. I think the FCC should require similar standards for all Amateur Radio Operators.

Remember When?

by SSBDX on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

How long are the new and old dead enders going to continue to maintain that they are important because they passed a cw test? The only thing some hams have earned the right to do is to cop a superior, arrogant, "I'm important", "thank me when I use my radio for doughnut duty " attitude in a hobby that is collapsing.

Since 1962, when I was a novice, I have seen nothing but smart asses in this hobby. And I still can't figure out how hams get this superiority complex that they are better than the general public.

I have seen more CBers go well out of their way to help out with their "not sophisticated non ham" radios than I ever saw any ham.

10 years from now most of the traditionaly self-important types will be gone and a better ham radio will emerge. The general population will supply much higher caliber people to the hobby without the cw test and without the influence of the dying ARRL.

Too many current old hams have become the same kind of dead ender that you can find in the old Iraqi army.

RE: One More Thing

by W6JE on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Oh, are you ever right, WPE9JRL.
I remember this same debate raging on 30 years ago.
My hope is that the FCC does the right thing, knowing that the ARRL can't for political reasons. No code test and one license class with a single test that focuses on fundamental radio theory and rules.

RE: Get Real

by PH1PH on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"DUMMING DOWN"?

Yes - you've proved your point.

145, Pete PH1PH - G7ECN

Remember When?

by W8KQE on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Who is 'giving away' any licenses? Last I heard, one still had to pass some sort of written test to gain entry into this great hobby/service. Granted, it has become easier to become a Ham these days, as opposed to the days where many people, including myself, had to schlep down to the local FCC field office and pass a code and written test to get on the air. I guess these latest changes are a 'sign of the times', what with all international CW requirements being eliminated. I can still enjoy CW on the air, thankfully, and will continue to do so. Given all the changes taking place with licensing, what we should be placing a huge emphasis on is proper on-the-air operating technique and procedures, since most newer Hams today seem to be moving towards 'appliance operator' status rather than technical guru. If the proposed ARRL licensing structure comes to fruition, we will now have all these new ops on the air, and it is paramount they know proper operating procedures and methods, since being on the air is the most tangible way others experience these new ops!

Remember When?

by KC2HJN on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Oh no...not another "When I was your age..." speech. I wonder if all the folks complaining about when 'I had to do this', and 'In my day...', remember when they were the young ones and the older generation of their time gave them the same crap?

As a kid growing up in Brooklyn, there weren't many places to go where somebody wouldn't complain. We had the cops called on us many times, sometimes just for standing around talking(yeah, sometimes we got a little loud) or playing ball in the street. To them we were just good for nothing kids. All their complaining did nothing but aggravate themselves, we just laughed it off because of the way they got sooo upset over nonsense.

Now I'm still in Brooklyn, I'm older (not much..32) and don't hang out in the street, but the new generation does. They do the same things we did...hang on the corner, play ball, chase girls and sometimes fight with each other. I somtimes catch myself thinking...'damn kids...' and stop myself. I remember when it was me being called a 'damn kid', so I give them a break and don't bitch at them.

Anyway, the moral of the story is this....lighten up. Life will go on, amateur radio will not sink into the bowels of hell, and the more you bitch at the younger generation, the more they will rebel against you...just like you did as a kid. If you call a kid a lazy good for nothing he WILL call you an old fart. Respect goes BOTH ways.

73

RE: Remember When?

by K1ZF on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey look!!

STILL people with no callsigns who know it all. Wonder what bands these guys operate... Lets see: 11 meters maybe??

Gene K1ZF

RE: Remember When?

by K5UJ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Let's pretend all the ham licenses still require a cw test and the entry level license only allows cw on HF.
Now, you have gotten your son or daughter who is a teenager through the licensing process and he is ready to operate and have a qso with someone. Remembering your first qso with misty eyes, you take him into the shack and point at the rig and proudly say, "There it is, have at it!" He looks at the desk where you have a transceiver, a pair of headphones and a straight key or pair of paddles waiting and and this kid, who is familiar with the internet, cell-phones, pagers, GPS, WiFi, DirecTV ad infinitum, looks back at you with the fish eye, thinking, are you nuts?

Can we please at last deal with reality here? The idea that new people to the hobby in 2004 should all be required to learn and use cw makes as much sense as having everyone who gets their drivers licenses, get around with horses and wagons for the first few years before being allowed to operate motor vehicles.

RE: Remember When?

by KE4MOB on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To K4UJ.

It's not that just CW has gone by the wayside...RADIO has gone by the wayside. The idea that CW is keeping a horde of potential operators away is just the smallest tip of the iceberg.

The real iceberg is that in the day of "internet, cell-phones, pagers, GPS, WiFi, DirecTV ad infinitum" the idea of having to deal with static, propagation, and licensing is a turnoff.

It's time to accept that by and large, ham radio is an anachronism, meant to be enjoyed by a (relatively) few nostalgic individuals.

So all the changes in the world won't change the situation.

Remember When?

by WB9UDJ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If a ham is to hold a general class license the least they can do is pass the general written. Thousands already have so it is not too much to demand for anyone that wants to have general privileges.

RE: Remember When?

by SSBDX on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

All the dead end older hams can't get themselves out of the dumbdown / no code gutter discussion for good reason.

Your average 50+ hasn't learned anything in decades. Its still SSB, CW, T tuners, tube amps, ect. If large number of new no code hams enter this hobby, you will start to see people with new technology interests that will bury the dead enders. They still want to ride the coat tails of their cw test as a great achievement and keep others out that will raise the hobby into the 22nd century.

The reason you rarely see any new stuff in mags is that dead enders won't even read an article about processor controlled antenna tuners, auto tuned amps, high power transistor amps. They won't understand any of it. They just keep playing with their iambic keyers like they were invented last year.

Older hams dumb downed themselves years ago and keep trying to hide it.

RE: Remember When?

by W8MW on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The author rambled around expressing disdain at every turn. I couldn't extract a single salient point. But the tone of this composition is familiar.

>Remember how proud you felt, when you finally passed the exam and got your ticket?

Yes I remember the thrill of getting a license. It didn't take long to realize that was only the beginning and not an end in itself. I also remember being judged as unworthy by a vocal minority of older amateurs. They said the new generation of hams were the product of a dumbed down testing system that would surely be the damnation of everything noble about amateur radio. Integrity and high standards were being undermined in the interest of quantity over quality. The first time I heard that was in 1962.

>Despite the fact that our government says, "All people are CREATED equal " Some have taken that to mean that we ARE equal. People are NOT equal.

Drawing attention to the inequalities of amateurs seems to be a rewarding pursuit for some. Some prideful individuals are desparate about protecting their prized status in the pecking order. I think this is the core reason for the "grave concern" over possible changes to the licensing system.

Over the years I developed a strong admiration for experienced amateurs who temper their pride in personal achievement with a measure of humility and benevolance toward others. All of the class act guys I know have the maturity and social grace to avoid passing out wholesale judgment on less experienced hams.

A shakeout is coming between two distinct amateur radio philosophies, exclusive or inclusive. When the dust settles, wonder what we'll have?

Remember When?

by W3RAZ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You know I have heard all trhis BS about whine whine no cw any more....whine....they don't have to learn cw to get on hf anymore....

ENOUGH! I swear I havenot heard a bigger bunch of belly achers then in ham radio. I have also met the best people in the world. Unfortunately, the good hams don't speak up enough.

I am currently studying the current exam pool for extra. It's MUCH harder then when I looked at it 5 years ago. Sure, there's nothing on the test regarding tubes, but how many radios come with a tube even in the finals?? There are thigns on the test now there were not 5 years ago. Questions regarding PSK31, Spread Spectrum and other items. NONE of this was around when the original W3RAZ, my grandfather, got his license. In fact, my grndfather hated computers because the old ones caused a ton of noise on 10m. Things change. When I pass the current exam, I will STILL FEEL the same accomplishment as my friends and others did when they took a easier test, and mastered 20 WPM code.

Remember When?

by KZ1X on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well, Alan, the only thing I will comment about is the salaries at ARRL.

Frankly, they stink. They pay worse than about anywhere I know for the same kind of work. I have been offered TWO jobs at ARRL in the past 15 years, and there is NO WAY I could even THINK about working for those wages. To work for the ARRL is a labor of love, not money. You have to either already be well-off or have a trust fund or something, or live in your car. And, business travel? VERY few League employees go anywhere and when they do, as I saw myself when I was in Geneva last year, the hotel wasn't all that nice, or expensive.

Remember When?

by KD7ZNL on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Here we go again, another older Ham putting down younger Hams... and this one's full of misinformation.

First off all, all new Hams EARN their licenses when they pass the Elements. Nobody "gave" ME my Tech license: I had to study the Element 2 Question Pool to pass it. Heck, one of the VE's even gave me a hard time because he didn't like the way my signature looked in my CSCE (I'm not kidding) because he was afraid that the FCC wasn't going to like my signature (turns out they did).

Second of all, do the Elements change with time? The Elements HAVE be changed with time... otherwise there would be even MORE people passing all four Elements in one testing session... which is something lots of older Hams hate... because they can't conceive that what it took one of THEM years to achieve a younger Ham can achieve much faster.

By the way, WHERE did you get that whole "... the mass majority of modern day Hams are Technicians"??? I went to the FCC License Counts page at the ARRL site (http://www.arrl.org/fcc/stats.html for those interested) and I did some number-crunching. Out of 683,045 licenses, 355,158 are either Novice, Technician, or Technician-Plus. The good news for you is that out of those 683,045 licenses, only 105,074 are Extras... so rest assured, your "elite club" it's still "elite".

But it won't stay like that for a long time... because Amateur Radio is NOT a social club (there are some Amateur Radio Clubs that look at someone my age and make me feel like I don't belong there, but that's human nature)... anyway, this is a HOBBY... with lots of men and women of all ages... doing and wanting to do lots of different stuff... using both low-tech, high-tech, and no-tech ways to do them.

Because it doesn't really take a whole lot of money to get into Amateur Radio (Where did you get THAT piece on information?)... nor it takes a lot of money to STAY in it... it has never taken a lot of money.

Like several people have said here: Amateur Radio is one of the cheapest hobbies there is. As you'd expect in a Hobby as diverse as ours, how cheap or expensive it is depends on what the individual Ham wants to do and the resources (time, money, patience, etc.) to do so. You can work 2m with a $300 radio.. or a $60 one. You can work HF with a $1,000+ radio... or with a Rockmite (a kit that costs $27). It's all about getting on the air.

And besides... what's wrong with people wanting to buy already-made HF radios.. or any other kind/type of radios for that matter... if they're not inclined to homebrew or to build them themselves? LET THEM BE!! (more for me, that's what I say) That doesn't mean that those Hams are "lesser Hams than you" because you have/had the time/patience/resources/motor skills to build your own stuff. it only means that YOU are into building your own stuff.. and they aren't... and even THAT is not always true.

And what if there are Hams who don't want to learn Morse Code?? Well, guess what?? Those of us with a genuine, honest-to-goodness interest in learning CW are getting off our butts and learning it... and a few of us getting headaches in the process... but I'll assure you, we WILL keep CW alive.

This article sounds like an older Ham wanting to hold on to "the old way of doing things"... and that's what will kill Amateur Radio... not "the old ways".. but the resistance to allow "the new ways" to integrate themselves to this fine Hobby.

Remember When?

by KB9OJS on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Just figured I would add my two cents to the topic.

1. As a 20 year old ham radio operator, I found that the cost of the hobby can be as little or as much as you make it. My first HF rig, an IC-718 cost me around 600 bucks. That takes a lot of time to make when you only earn a little more that minimum wage. One day I was walking around at a hamfest and saw a Ten-Tec Triton w/matching PS and desk mic for only $175. I thought it was a great deal. Who says you must spend tons of money to get on the air.

2. I don't understand the the reason to drop the code for anyone less than Extra. I think that 5wpm is an easily obtainable goal. I guess the ARRL thinks people my age are gonna bust butt to get a ham radio license if they make it even more easier to get a license. The truth is that most people my age couldn't care less about going out and getting a license when they can get on yahoo chat and make new freinds and talk to different countries.

3. After the new licensing proposal goes through(and it will, no doubt), they midas well call it more CB Radio. I mean, whats next? Licensing similar to GMRS($75 for 6 years, NO TEST!!!!).

4. The only reason I am an ARRL member is so that I can get QST without paying 5 bucks each issue. All of the letters I get in the mail begging for money(BLP, Diamond club, spectrum defense. etc.) go right into the trash. They get enough money from memberships. I'm sure if they got rid of some "dead weight" at headquarters and get some new beancounters, they wouldn't need to beg for money

I do enjoy this hobby as a 5wpm Extra and I have nothing but admiration and repspect for those who took their tests when you really had to work hard. But I think that the "dumbing down of the hobby" has gone far enough.

That's been my 2 cent's. 73's all de john, kb9ojs

RE: Remember When?

by K8JDC on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Alan,

I have a few thoughts on this one. First, I don't like lowering standards in general. I think we do too much of that in America, in public schools for instance, and not just in ham radio. This post isn't really about the "dumbing-down" debate, though.

As a relatively new ham, I hate that we get dinged by so many old-timers because we didn't have to do it "the hard way" in front of FCC examiners, at 75 wpm, 100 miles from home, and on and on. I hold both undergraduate and graduate degrees in electrical engineering and am not "dumb" just because I got my license in an era when the rules weren't the same as they were in the 60s. It's not our fault the rules changed. Stop holding it against us. We earned our licenses, too. In many cases, we're just as sharp technically as those who got their licenses in the earlier era.

I've even had old-timers complain to me that I got a 1x3 call sign. I've seen them write that newbies should be "branded" with a 2x3 call sign so that we're recognized as the idiots we are and avoided. They would argue that it's so they could recognize as and help elmer us, but with the attitudes I've run into, I don't buy it. They just don't feel like we've earned a 1x2 or 1x3 call.

If you're not happy with the current rules, fight to get them changed. But don't think that all newbies are 11m rejects...

JDC

RE: Remember When?

by W4LGH on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

My original article was NOT about CW or NO CW. Everyone wants to bring CW back into it. I could and have cared less about CW. As for that matter, I am looking forward to playing DIGITAL SSB, love all the new modes, and always willing to try something new in the hobby.

The real MEAT of the article was trying to attract NEW YOUNG HAMs into the HOBBY, because we NEED BODIES! It wasn't about having to walk "UP HILL" both ways to school in 30" of snow. And I certainly welcome NEW HAMs into the hobby, and have worked very HARD at bring them into it, as well as help with getting equipment for them.

The article is ABOUT lowering the standards to get licened in this hobby, to attract YOUNGESTs who HAVE $120 shoes, 2 gameboys, 2 computers, full internet access, Fast cars & girlfriends. It just isn't going to work!! So why bother messing with it. Again, I stress, I DON'T care about CW.

I was sitting today at lunch, and watched a family come in and sit down. They had 2 young boys, probably around 12 to 15 yrs of age. They both had matching Gameboys, and were going at them like a duck chasing a June bug. I made a comment to my wife as to how Ham radio could compete with that, and that when I was there age, I had a walkie-talkie, and a Knight-Kit Star Roamer SW Reciever. Pretty hi-tech toys in the early 60's. I was lucky enough to grow up in a family electronic business, and I worked after school, summers etc. and saved my money, bought my own equipment, junk cars etc. Todays kids only have all this money because 1- there parents give it to them, because they say "I WANT" or 2 - they are doing something "llegal".

Times have changed, and people pay $6 for a cup of coffee @ Starbucks to be with the "IN" crowd. Ham radio is very near and dear to my heart, but let's face it guys( & gals) its NOT with the "IN" crowd.

Reducing rules and regs will NOT make it part of the "IN" crowd either. It is for a select few and unique individuals, and those really interested in it will work as hard as they have to, to be involved in it.

Want to attract NEW and DIFFERENT people, then you have to make it glamorous and the "IN" thing to do, not just give it away.

Again, it has nothing to do with what I had to do, then or now, or anyone else. Give away programs have never worked in this country for anything, and it isn't going to work here either. And I don't CARE about CW, but respect those who do and hope they continue to enjoy it.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day, TEACH a man to FISH and you'll feed him and his family for LIFE!

Just simple laws of nature. So HOW do we make HAM radio GLAMOROUS and part of the "IN" crowd? Not really sure how to do that, but giving it away isn't the answer.

73 W4LGH Alan

RE: Get Real

by N8YV on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yes - you've proved your point.

______________________________

It would seem that you, too have PROVEN your point.

RE: Remember When?

by RobertKoernerExAE7G on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

“And now the ARRL is changing. It used to be an organization that supported Ham Radio. It grew and grew into "Big Business" over the years, and created many new high paying jobs for the select few. It needs the DUES to pay these salaries, trips to nice places, super hotels to say in etc. The mass majority of Hams this day and age are Technician class operators; they want them as members, dues paying members, so they can continue to keep their high paying jobs, trips, and fancy hotel rooms.”

Got any PROOF? Or, is this an example of “I think, therefor it is.”?

Who is the highest paid person at the ARRL? What is his salary? How does this compare to what that person could make in ‘private industry” or at another “public sector” organization?

Do the ARRL people stay at four and five star hotels when they travel? Who books the hotel rooms? In house, via Expedia or Orbitz, or Travel agency? What discount does the travel agency give them? Do they rent cars at Dollar or Hertz?

How many people do the paid employees of the ARRL bring when them on the corporate jet, when they fly off on their trips to fancy hotel rooms? Does the ARRL pay for the spouse and children also?

The two people I’ve met, who worked at the League, didn’t make a lot of money. It was more like a labour of love.

How about you tell us about your analysis, the research you’ve done, feedback you’ve gotten from the FCC.

Under your proposal how many new hams during the next ten years? How many up grades? How many will not remain active?

How about the same for The League’s proposal?

What will be the net difference for those areas between your proposal and The League’s?

Why was it (again) that your analysis was, is superior to The League’s?

Bob

RE: Remember When?

by K1CJS on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Sure, these articles are vetted. To make sure the site stays in everyones minds. And that is what these articles do.

On another point, yes, whine, whine, whine. Then whine, W9WHinE, and whine some more.

The ARRL are money grubbers. The ARRL are the only ones defending ham radio. The ARRL only cares about the kickbacks from manufacturers. And on it goes.

You know, its a real wonder the webmaster doesn't do the backgrounds of these articles in brown--there's that much bullsh*t floating around in these articles.

RE: Get Real

by AC9TS on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ya know, I just can't remember what article I'm reading. They are all starting to sound the same. Old guy says that "Back in the day......". Young guy says "I have no interest in mode X (I won't say CW.....DOH!) so why should I learn it?" Old guy says "That's the way things were back in 'ought 6"

I was a 13 WPM General (in front of the FCC officer to satisfy the old guys) back in the late 70's and let my license lapse. I had tube rigs and built my own stuff. I am now a 5 WPM Extra "lite" (yet another old guy put down). Went to the VE session last July and took all elements in one sitting. I have an IC718 and a dipole in the attic. I am now considered an appliance operator.

I'm not dumb. I studied. I also had the prior experience of the previous ticket and 20 some years of experience as an EE designing RF systems.

It is going to be tough getting new people into this hobby (yes, it is a hobby, and ONLY a hobby). There are a lot of distractions. Having people call you an applicance operator, 11 meter drop out, dumb downed <fill in the blank>, no-coder, or any of the other phrases I've read in these forums is not going to help.

I gave it up to go to school, get a job, get married, and start a family. I got back in because of the new modes available today, not because I love this hobby so much that I can't live without it.

I am 42 years old. I'm a "tweener". I never had a "N" in my call but I did start out as a novice. I was a WD9 and did feel a bit different when all my friends were WB9, K9, or W9. They didn't care.

One thing the old guys should try and keep from the old days is acceptance. Enjoy the hobby with whoever else is in it; No-code Techs to 20 WPM extras. They are all doing the same thing as you.

This is a bit of a ramble but as I said, I kinda of lost track of what article I was reading.........

Tom - AC9TS (Extra Lite Version)
ex WD9FZR (Novice thru General, FCC office version)

Remember When?

by N2EY on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W4LGH writes:

>Remember when it really meant something to be a Ham >Radio Operator?

It still does!

>Remember how proud you felt, when you finally passed >the exam and got your ticket?

Yep - and I'm still proud!

>Remember hooking up some junkie old equipment,

HEY! My equipment may not be old, but it's not junk!

>throwing a wire up in a tree and making your first >contact? I do!

Me too!

>People now say, we need more youth in the hobby. I
>agree, we do, but lets be realistic! How many 12 to >20 year olds can go out and afford to buy HF >equipment?

At least as many as could do it when I started out
at the age of 13 in 1967. Doesn't have to be new
stuff, or top of the line.

>How many of this same age group, have the time to >devote to Ham Radio?

At least as many as when I was in that age group. It's
all a matter of choice.

>How many of this same age group had/have the >privilege of growing up in a family owned electronic >business?

Very few - but a lot of us old-timers didn't have any
family members in the business either. Didn't stop us!

>(This day and time most 12 to 20 year olds don't >really know their parents.)

I disagree 100%!

>Current times require both parents to work.

Sure - but that doesn't mean kids are neglected. It
all depends on the family itself.

73 de Jim, N2EY

RE: Get Real

by AE6IP on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> It's called "dumming down"

No comment.

RE: Remember When?

by W5RMZ on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'VE GOT IT !!!!!!!! LET'S ALL HAVE TWO HAM CLUBS!!! ONE FOR THE OLDTIMERS AND ONE FOR THE NEWBIES! CASE SOLVED.......????

RE: Remember When?

by WB4QNG on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree all of these Post are sounding alike. It doesn't matter what the title is. It all comes down to code vs no-code. Old vs Young. I wish we could get a new topic. It sounds like there are a lot of hams out there who think if the no-code perposal goes into effect then there are going to be thousands upon thousands of cbers taking over the HF bands. It is not going to happen people. For one thing the freebanders are not going to take a test of any kind. Then they would have to obey the rules. They are not going to do that. As for as normal cbers getting their tickets there are not any. Take your CB and hook it up. If you find five busy channels out of the forty being used then that is four more than I hear. I can remember when they did away with code for techs. Two meters was going to be nothing but a big CB. All the CBers were going to take it over. Well I have had my two meter rig scanning the 10 plus repeaters and a couple of simplex frequencies and the only thing I have heard in the last hour was the repeaters indentification. I hope this purposal helps to bring some youth into ham radio. We need youth. Ham radio events are the only place I can go and be called a kid at 53.
Terry
WB4QNG

Remember When?

by KI4CRA on February 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You know I started out in this "HOBBY" as a NO-CODE Tech, in 1995. So my call was KE4WAF. I was active for about 2 or 3 years then injuries forced me to sideline this "HOBBY" for at least 5 years. Then lo and behold field day 2003 Got hooked on HF, I studied, passed my 5 wpm code test, passed the written exam and got my General. Decided to change my call when I passed, got KI4CRA in Oct. 03. All the guys I had been talking to on 2m and 440 said great Mark you passed-- are you going for Extra? Well I suppose so. Guess what I'm now an Extra with the call KI4CRA. Went from NO CODE Tech to Extra in about7 months, all the guys in the club great you did it Mark. Not once did I EVER hear Oh you only had to take the 5wpm code test, Oh you had it EASY. Let me tell you it wasn't easy! I am disabled WITH tone deafness, I had a hell of a time with the code, not that I'm not knocking the code, it has its place in this "HOBBY". The Extra class exam was brutal! Spread Spectrum, PSK31, on and on I could go, and the math! Give me a break, I am not a math person, nor did I have a scientific calculator either, and at the same time my internet server was down so I didn't have the luxury of QRZ to rely on. But you know what? I still passed. I EARNED my Extra class ticket, and all the old timers I have talked to since have had nothing but good things to say. Proud to be KI4CRA in this "HOBBY".
73 all Mark KI4CRA

RE: Remember When?

by KI4ABS on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'm almost sick of hearing this same old debate, but, I know everyone has their own personal opinion, so I won't whine. I have only been licensed since May 03, so I really don't remember those "good old days." I guess I'm in mine right now, at the age of 18. I upgraded to General this month, wanting to explore the HF bands. No, I don't use CW. Someday? Maybe. I might now, but they don't sell new receivers with keys. Also, I prefer hearing someones voice than dits and dahs. Did I learn code? Yes. And I hope they keep SOME code requirement, if it's only for Extra. The most proficient hams should know it. I think the ARRL is simply changing with the times. I read once that if you look at some of the tests from the 50s or so, many of the questions are the same or fairly close. I do think the tests are hard enough. We have to have some sort of filter to sustain our level of respectibility...that filter is called a written exams. The higher the class, a higher level of respect. I can't call every new licensed ham an idiot. I've made mistakes and didn't realize it until I was corrected. I think that's why we're called "amateurs." I sort of stumbled upon the hobby. I've been interested in electronics forever, but I decided to take a leap into ham radio, and have enjoyed this hobby thoroughly. Do I think new licensees should some HF privelages? Sure. Of course, I appreciated mine more, having to learn code and a harder written test. I think if you give them a taste, they will make the effort to go further. Don't make the first leap to hard, or you will turn folks away. I tasted 2 meters and liked it. I tasted 20 meters, and fell in love.

RE: Remember When?

by KG4IUA on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Allen,
Forgive me for pointing this out, but if your original article was about attracting new bodies, then the Amateur Community should be glad that you don't run the recruiting department.
Your article reads as one negative piece of work. Everyone who has taken and passed an exam earned every bit of their license class.
I'm certainly glad that I never found these sites and the negativity before I decided to get my ticket. It is exactly these negative attitudes that keep people from getting involved.
As I was taking my Extra exam and missed a number of questions I was disappointed that I didn't ace the test, that I just "passed" it. A friend quickly responded... "what do they call the guy who finished last in his med school class?......Doctor! A General class operator today, holds the same class license as one from ten, twenty or thirty years ago. And to keep it honest, my Extra written test expired because I didn't get the code done....
It takes a lot less energy to be positive. Now, if I can only figure out how to get eHam to change my call to my new 1X3!

73,
Bill
K4VHO

Remember When?

by KG6AMW on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Remember when we didn't have to read all this Bull Sh-t complaining about dumbing down.

RE: Remember When?

by KG4PFO on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Throw a little more fuel on the fire........
Better yet, just eat a root !

RE: Remember When?

by KL7IPV on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

. "The good old days"! I am old enough to remember them. The Multi-Elmacs and Hammarlund HQ-110 among others. Then upgraded to a Heath DX-60B and a National NC-109. Then to a Drake TR-4C with the RV-4. Yup, kept ugrading thru about a dozen different radios to what I have now... IC-706MkII.
I use Ham Radio Deluxe computer control with the 706. I run PSK31, SSTV amd other neat stuff that wasn't around in "the good old days". I took my tests at the FCC offices in Los Angeles and Anchorage and there was no "forgiveness" there. The radios being built now have so many components in them, it would cost more for me to buy them and build my own then buy theirs.
I wouldn't call the old days "good old days". Times have moved on and it time for the rest of the ham radio world to catch up. How do we do that? It isn't done by bickering or name calling, nor demeaning those who want to get a license using today's technology rather than that of "the good old days". So what if CW is no longer part of a test. That wouldn't mean it still wouldn't be used. So what if there are only three classes of license. That wouldn't mean those licensed would know any less. So what if the computer is used with our radios. That wouldn't mean the radios work less.
Combining new technology with the old is not bad, it encourages everyone to be involved because the "newbies" still have to learn from someone.
Are YOU going to be that someone, or just whine and demean and belittle? Come on, we are all part of a developing technolgy that doesn't stop because we want it to. Welcome to the 21st century. Are you coming willingly or dragged kicking and screaming. Me? I can't wait to see what comes next. Maybe we'll hear a ham repeater from the moon or Mars. That wasn't even a dream in "the good old days".
73
Frank
KL7IPV

RE: Remember When?

by WA5KRP on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I too want to offer my acknowledgement of this divisive and unproductive argument, Version MMMMMDCCLXIV:

.

Thank you,

WA5KRP

RE: Remember When?

by AE6IP on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's a hobby, not a profession. It *starts* with licensing; it doesn't end there. Nothing anyone else accomplishes or gets free takes anything away from what *you* accomplished. Like all hobbies, you get out of it what *you* put into it.

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

GEEEEEZERRRRR

who was that W9 who cancelled his ARRL membership?

Remember When?

by KC0LTV on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Most teenagers can afford the hobby if they so wish. Heck, I even saw the ICOM IC-718 HF transceiver (NEW) going for something like $500 or $450 with a free DSP unit. Combine that with some $40 power supply you find at a hamfest, a home-built antenna (I'm sure there are many teenagers who would enjoy rolling their own antenna) or a dipole for $40, and perhaps a tuner for $80 plus feedline for your antenna (if not included) and you've got a complete ham shack...for under $700. Even more high-end radios, like, for example, a TS2000 or IC-746PRO are within the budget range of a committed, working teen who saves his cash.

RE: Remember When?

by GOODBUDDY on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Sheesh! The Roving article was far better than this bitch and moan session. If you budding authors would take all the effort that you put into the negative articles, and channel it into a positive spin you'd do far more to help ham radio.

Remember When?

by KE2IV on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Here we go again. Another AWM bitchin' 'bout the decay of ham radio!

I really do believe that most positive aspect of this forum is that for at least the time it takes these guys to post this crapola - it's less time they have to spout it out on the airwaves.

On and on and on...

Oh. BTW, did you hear that W9WHE quit the ARRL? Again?

In fact, I hear he has an arrangement with a service that every month enrolls him and then "quits" his membership.

Boy, we League members sure are gonna' miss of W9WHE (er...that is if he is a member right now).

RE: Remember When?

by NE1Z on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Compared to bass fishing, this is a poor man's hobby."

Compared to fishing, this is a cheap man's hobby.

Fisherman buy worms at a store, hams spend nights on their knees out on the lawn with a flashlight & a cup, then brag they saved a $1.79!

Face it people, the "golly gee whiz" is gone, everyone has far more progressive & interesting things to do.

Bill

Ashamed

by KB1GIM on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Gee, old timers or "the new generation," you all have a few things in common. The most apparent one is that you seem to want to flame people rather than listening to arguments.

The second is that I find each one of you nasueating to listen to.

Smile, people. Wouldn't your time be more enjoyable on the air than trading half-thought insults with people who barely acknowledge your existence?

Just a thought
KB1GIM
(Technician, and only on 2m at the moment, so I'm even more contemptible now, aren't I?)

Remember When?

by KB9YUR on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I remember when I spent more time on the radio and less time on the Internet.

Remember When?

by N3TSN on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Its funny, it realy is. I dont know of to many young hams on the air. I do alot of operating and havnt heard a school aged kid on the air yet. Maybe they feel awkward stiking up a conversation with a 50 to 65 year old man who knows nothing about whats going on in their lives with school, video games and the stuff kids do now adays The new plan will promote Amateur Radio like never before. Instead of rejecting it embrace it and help a young child get their ticket.

RE: Remember When?

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Sure things have changed. I remember when we all had to...

1. Make our own batteries out of lemons or a bowl full of beer with electrodes. Didn't get too much done with the latter, not to mention the headaches after a long net on 75.

2. Grind up a bunch of old pennies, melt 'em down, and make our own copper wire.

3. Buy some mercury to make our own vacuum pumps so we could homebrew our own tubes.

4. Rummage through garbage bins behind old radio shops to salvage whatever parts we could, and somehow avoid the rats, maggots, and vermin inside, and those inside the store too.

5. Learn diplomacy as our neighbors came up the street with torches looking for our hide (we loved 6 meters then), and try to convince the blood suckers that all that TVI was for the public good.

6. Send CW at 25 wpm with just a wire held in each hand. Too poor to buy a key and couldn't make one because of the battery-headache problem.

7. Learn all of Maxwell's equations and be able to discuss quantum theory down at your local Friendly Cookie Company store before you could get a ticket.

8. You bought your girlfriend Colonge de Ozone, reminiscent of all those times you ran way too much plate current.

Geez. Plus you had to walk 25 miles to school each day back and forth, in the snow, 50 mph blizzard winds, uphill both ways.

Nah, the new crowd don't know nuttin'. Whats a transistor good for anyway? It don't glow real purdy and warm up the shack as you're too poor to pay the gas bill this winter since all the rest of the money is used for radio gear and alimony payments....

OF

Remember When?

by KD5UAC on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'm 32, and one of the younger hams in my area. I go to breakfast with them just about every saturday. I've climbed, and they ran the ropes. I love it, and I'm a lowly "no-code" technician.

I passed my written general, and I have a Yaesu FT-847 at the house, and a FT-100 in the truck. I cant wait to get on HF, I listen on a regular basis.

BUT WAIT!! I cant pass code! Lots of you out there are already thinking, "geesh, how hard can it be? I passed it, so anyone can pass it." Well, I cant. I flunked spanish in school.

I'd like to do code eventually, and I'd be willing to work for my grandfathers call sign (he was a radio officer in the merchant marines). But for now, I just want on HF, and to explore the world.

A little about me, I do wireless internet. I also design power systems, and know my way around schematics, and assemble printed circuit boards for my designs. My 4 year old son sits down with me at the computer, and at the radio with me.

Yes, get with the times. There's more out there like me than you think.

73,
Troy

RE: Remember When?

by WA2DTW on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Troy
You may enjoy the hobby much more if you allow yourself to taste the joy of CW.
73
Steve
WA2DTW

Remember When?

by WF7A on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Y'know, there is an advantage to dropping the Code requirement: the people who don't want to learn it won't use it, leaving us CW ops free to chat away in the clear while the the talkers-only crowd battle it out to be heard in the overcrowded SSB bands above.

I feel a little sorry for those hams who opt out to learn and use CW: it's rewarding, challenging, fun, and is part of the heritage of amateur radio. I guess in this age of instant gratification fewer ops want to expend a the time and effort to learn it. Oh well.

Now, how about a topic less controversial: How about those gay marriages?

Bahahah!
Rich

Remember When?

by NG1I on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I used to think that way..."bring back the old days" but I saw the light when I watched one of the Survivor series in which Rudy, then 72, an ex-navy Seal, was told by one of the women players in the show who didn't like his "know-it-all (but correct work ethic and command structure), "Rudy, it's not your world anymore!"
That comment changed my whole outlook in one night of my life's expectations and what my role now is to others younger than I. Yes I did go through each license and code change from 1986 on and was proud of it and have great fun with the hobby today. But since that show, I've come to know that the world changes and there's NOTHING I can do about it but realize if I want to at least stay in touch with what is going on around me, I must accept this premise and accept this changed world no matter the consequences.

I love CW and will continue to use as well many others do...the bands are still filled with it, i.e. the DX contest this weekend. New hams will enjoy their priviledges and maybe have as much fun as I!

I know the fustration of mom and dads and several yuppies who give their kids anything (almost to the point of getting rid of them in some cases) and the resulting tragic consequences that can go along with it and the "I don't care because I don't have too" attitiude. I am near retirement on my job and the 5 year experiened officer newcomers want my earned previledges over 32 years now instead of working up through the ranks to earn them. Young kids in their late 20's are buying $400+ homes putting them in a tough financial bind. Dumbing down has become part of a school and social reality...just watch Jay Leno interview people in the LA streets; many don't know anything basis of what's going on around their lives (i.e. current events)

Be happy that you have earned what you have, enjoy them, continue to build, learn, and participate as that's how you and I learned and we already know we can't change. We won't be around forever anyway! Anyone know where the lyrical phrases of "You have to look at the bright side of life" came from?

If the new license proposal in years to come is the death bed of ham radio then so be it. We were lucky enough to be a part of it. It's not our world anymore but I have learned to take it gracefully and with thanks that I was part of an age where this hobby meant something to the person who earned it at that time just as the new licencees will feel...no one else will know my pride but why should they care? They don't have know; your egoes shouldn't come across to others putting you in the societal hot seat... and I don't worry because I leave things alone and just be quiet about it.

My old police academy motto was "Pain is temporary but pride is forever"....I am that surfer that rides with the waves and not under them.

NG1I

Remember When?

by KG6TCJ on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

In recent months I have read thread after thread of CW this and CW that and boycott this group and don’t support that group on and on, you all are finger pointing and blaming the wrong people it’s the FCC that is pulling the strings. This all started in 1998 WT Docket 98-143. In recent years the FCC has streamlined there entire licensing process and have stated they want a three group amateur structure which will fit within their current data base and will not bend on this. The ARRL must work within this mandate has tried to please as many hams as possible with the current proposal. This is only a proposal the FCC can and most likely will come up with their own structure and most likely it will not include code as they will follow the ITU and the numerous other countries that have dropped it. The current ARRL proposal allows more HF bandwidth access to more amateurs and you now the old adage use it or lose. In this time of fast expanding digital wireless technology every hertz of radio spectrum is worth money and what little spectrum we have could be gone in the stroke of a pen. So stop the bickering and work together. If you have to be teed-off at somebody then be teed-off at the FCC.

KG6TCJ
Dave Hodgson

RE: Remember When?

by W0W on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You know, you guys just don't get it. Has nothing to do with the good ole days, Old timers, or New Kid Techs. The entrie refference of the new license structure is to attract MORE people, Younger people, and I agree that we need new people to keep the hobby going. Just like adults need to have kids to keep people walking on this planet. I hate to use such immature descriptions, but it is certainly clear that the majority of yall have already fallen quilty to the "DUMBING DOWN" process in this country. This dumbing down process starts in grammar school with grade score curves, and continues thru college. I always thought HAM were extra smart people with way above the normal levels of common sence, but after reading these posts, I hang my head. The basic laws of physics tells us the water runs down hill, and seeks its own level. And it certainly has been running down hill here!

Wake up guys! I have only seen a couple of mosts that really hit the nail on the head, and I salute the poster of those. Ham radio is NOT interesting to the younger X Y or Z generation. They have cell phones with free long-distance, they have computers with fast access internet and every chat program known to man. They talk to people all over the world on the internet in real time, no noise, interfearance and full 30 fps real time video. They have laptops hooked to their cellphones and operate mobile. As one post said, Ham radio is not glamorous to this generation, there is nothing to attract them to it. By making the test so easy any 8 yr old can pass it, won't attract them either, so why give up the high standard of Ham radio?

Keep the standards high, keep the brotherhood alive and make it attractive to those who feel they would like to belong. Do positive things to attract these people and they will want to earn their right to belong. Challenge them to earn the right, hold events in areas where the youth population is high and do some really neat things to get their attention. Then and only then will you attract some of these people into ham radio.

Most people arleady think of ham radio as CB, why, because @ one time CB was glamorous and it was promoted to the masses as being the cool thing to do.
This is really where the ARRL has let us all down, by not doing something along these lines. Who do they communicate to...other hams, not the general public.

I have done many special events to attract these younger people, taken time to explain to them the pride that being an Amateur radio operator has given many people, explained that a lot of Ham radio operators invented a lot of the electronics they enjoy today, and how Amateur Raio operator thru general experminting open up the higher frequencies that their cell phones work on today, and that is many cases of emergencies over the years it was amateur radio operators that made a difference between life and death. When more of us do this, only then will we attract these new needed people into the hobby.

Nothing in this post is personally directed to any one person, but to the HAM community in general. So don't take any of it personally. Work as a group, as a whole.

Stop thinking like the idiots we elect in Washington who think they are doing us good, by lowering standards. Its doesn't WORK! Look at the mess we are all in now because of it. Look at the crap posts on here because of it. Stop fighting amoung yourselves and work together. Then and only then will it start to work.

Write your ARRL execs and tell them the same thing, they need to PROMOTE HAM RADIO to non-hams, not lower standards.

Email them today:
w5jbp@arrl.org Jim Haynie, W5JBP
w5zn@arrl.org Joel Harrison, W5ZN
n3kn@arrl.org Kay C. Craigie, N3KN

Remember When?

by SSBDX on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>Hey look!!

>STILL people with no callsigns who know it all. >Wonder what bands these guys operate... Lets see: 11 m>eters maybe??

>Gene K1ZF

Mr. Gene seems to think CBer's are crap. Who's building all the amps today? It isn't hams! Who's building the world class mobile installations? Its not the hams. Which group helps more people on the road in one day than hams do in a year. It ain't hams!

Even though some operation by CBers is illegal, getting them into the legal ham realm, would benefit ham radio and compensate for some of the most useless old fart hams we have now.. When some of the hams I have seen visit 11 meters, its the CBer's that are being dumbed down.

And just because I have been a ham since 1963, I don't have a need to bad mouth other groups because I passed a cw test for the Advanced license so now I can piss on CRer's like the rest of you arrogant morons.

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Who the hell is WOW? Is it W zero W?

I am disgusted by old timers who want to keep the hobby as it is so they can die happy with no regard for the future. This hobby is in a world of hurt right now and it is because of old fools like WOW. What ever it takes to get young people into the hobby must be tried. And what I mean by young is anybody younger than 40! I listen on the bands and hear geriatric medical discussions on a daily basis. I hear bands falling to disuse. I live in the Los Angeles area where most repeaters on 2 meters are silent most of the time. WAKE UP YOU DUMB FOOLS! WE ARE A DYEING BREED here and too many of you want to see it happen. We all have a responsibility here. Change or die, that’s the choice.

K6BBC

RE: Remember When?

by KG6RRQ on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Very nicely stated NG1I.

Also, I disagree with a few of the folks who say that parents, teens or whoever have more money than they know what to do with these days. Trust me, most of the folks you see in the 400k homes with the 40K (or more) SUV in the driveway aren't that well to do. They are simply up to their eyeballs in debt! The average college campus gets flooded with reps at the start of each semester practically giving away credit cards to young students. Most of them end up in trouble with them and Mom and Pop end up paying the bill. Credit is way too easy to come by these days.

Enough of that slightly off topic rant. I digress. NG1I...Just wondering what area of law enforcement you worked in? I'm a cop myself. Take care.

Remember When?

by N8DNG on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I guess I'm ok with the new deal. I do feel sad that the new hams will miss the thrill of making something work. Got my ticket in 1982 just out of school, got a great elctronics job with the Dept. of Energy,and STILL had trouble buying the new rig (school loans).My Mommy and Daddy said I would try harder if I had to pay for it. They were right and I thank them for it. I bought a dead Drake TR7 from the factory here in the 'Burg and a bag full of parts for a very small amount of cash.(1982). Had it up and running in 2 evenings and was THRILLED! Seeing the thing come to life and working people with it was the best! I still use it today. Oh well, that's one feeling the new guys won't get to have since Mom & Dad will buy it for them. Welcome to Plug 'n Pray Ham Radio. Plug it in and it will work and pray they won't use it for more than a month!

Remember When?

by N8DNG on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I guess I'm ok with the new deal. I do feel sad that the new hams will miss the thrill of making something work. Got my ticket in 1982 just out of school, got a great electronics job with the Dept. of Energy,and STILL had trouble buying the new rig (school loans).My Mommy and Daddy said I would try harder if I had to pay for it. They were right and I thank them for it. I bought a dead Drake TR7 from the factory here in the 'Burg and a bag full of parts for a very small amount of cash.(1982). Had it up and running in 2 evenings and was THRILLED! Seeing the thing come to life and working people with it was the best! I still use it today. Oh well, that's one feeling the new guys won't get to have since Mom & Dad will buy it for them. Welcome to Plug 'n Pray Ham Radio. Plug it in and it will work and pray they won't use it for more than a month!

RE: Remember When?

by K1MKF on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I remember when you had to drive a stick shift and there was no power steering. Those operator licenses really meant something! Drivers these days didn't earn their licenses.

Bull Shit! No matter what the process is to get a drivers license or HAM license or whatever those with an actual interest will strive to learn more and excel but those with little interest will eventually go away.

What's destroying HAM radio and American society is the belief that the older folks had it harder, earned what they got and everyone after them is getting a free ride. The attitude many of those older people have is just as divisive as racism!

MarkF

RE: Remember When?

by OLDFART13 on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>Remember when it really meant something to be a Ham Radio Operator?
>Remember how proud you felt, when you finally passed the exam and got your ticket?
>Remember hooking up some junkie old equipment, throwing a wire up in a tree and making your first contact?
>I do!

You have hit the nail on the head.

Remember when you had to actually earn your license? I do!

Remember when your license actually meant something? I do!

Remember when earning an Extra class license took years to achieve and not just memorizing the answers from Gordos book?
I do!

Remember when we didn’t bitch about how we couldn’t pass the CW exam, and we didn’t ask for a free no-code, welfare license?
I do!

Remember when you actually had to learn something to pass the exam?
I do!

Remember when earning your license was a real achievement to be proud of?
I do!

Remember when hams were actually smart enough to brew their own equipment?
I do!

Remember when a 1X2 call really meant something?
I do!

RE: Remember When?

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Notice that some posters have to rely on scatalogical language. Really shows off the intelligence AND maturity quite well.

RE: Remember When?

by OLDFART13 on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Did you mean scatological?

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yeah, I’ve noticed. I am sure it is because many of you lugheads drive them to pour use of language out of frustration.

Remember When?

by KF3EG on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

6 or 60 if someone has an interest in ham radio they will do it, if they have no interest they won't.
All the other crap means nothing if they don't have the spark, the want and the drive to become a ham operator.
Not everyone eats spinach.

The Gun Is Always Loaded

RE: Remember When?

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

OLDFART

No, I meant vulgar, gutter, trash mouth language, to be more precise and crystal clear, you ole curmudgeon you!!

RE: Remember When?

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Tony:

Foul language is not proper in adult, learned circles. Didn't your momma tell you that?

RE: Remember When?

by N0RKX on February 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"The reason you rarely see any new stuff in mags is that dead enders won't even read an article about processor controlled antenna tuners, auto tuned amps, high power transistor amps. They won't understand any of it. They just keep playing with their iambic keyers like they were invented last year."

What a load of techno-babble crap!
I'm not quite 50+ and you sir couldn't carry my jock when it comes to "new technology". I work with it all day, everyday. When these discussions errupt on this site the internet, processor control, and Wi-Fi are always quoted as the next best thing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The internet is 95% advertising and vulnerable as hell. Any pimple faced 14 year old with the right tools and dedication could disable large parts of it. We want to transform Ham Radio into this??

Processor control. Another fallacy of the modern age. Do we really need CPU's in our radios? We got along without them for 70+ years. The first lesson in engineering school should be, "just because you can do a thing doesn't neccesarily mean you should or need to do that thing". Does a CPU controlled/programmable/digital toaster really make better toast than the old fashioned analog kind? Or, is it just job security for bored engineers? Same goes for Radios. Case in point the new Icom IC-7800. It'll cook your breakfast while standing on one leg farting the national anthem but is all of that crap really neccesary for communication? Another excercise in stimulating bored engineers.

Wi-Fi is a joke, plain and simple.
It serves no useful purpose other than to sell expensive wireless networking equipment to people who are taken with the whole "gee-whiz" factor of being able to surf the web or network while on the pot. Get this through your heads, Wi-Fi will never, and I mean NEVER, be as fast as a wired network. It's just plain physics. All of you WiFi officianados should just pull the hook out.

The people on this site who keep using these feeble examples of technological advancement that COULD be applied to Ham Radio need to reconsider and get some better analogies/examples.

Remember When?

by KC2HJN on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N0RKX, re WIFI..
If people believe it will never be faster than hard wired, then it never will be. Future technology may change that, it may at least equal it.

Not too long ago the fastest reliable(?) limit over telephone lines was 56k...now they transmit many times faster. I remember going 'on line' before there was a public internet. I had one of those modems where you had to physically put the handset on it. We blazed along at 300 baud and thought it was the shit. There were no graphics, only text. If any of us could have foreseen the advances it such a short time....

When the 80486 processor came out the 'experts' said it would never become popular for home PC's because it was too powerful. Now I can walk around with my linux pda, which is many times more powerful than my first computer(a pre-80X86), and do anything I can do at home on my pc.

In the spirit of ham radio we should never shun new technology, or say it can't be done, but try to advance it and improve on current technology.

73

Remember When?

by K0RGR on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Once again, I spent Saturday in a room full of enthusiastic students, striving to earn their Technician licenses. Through lots of free publicity in the local newspaper, the high schools, and the efforts of the good people at our local Radio Shack stores, we recruited 13 newbies! I'm also happy to say that half of them intend to learn the code, even though they may not ever need it. Two of the students are under 18.

I keep reading about how we're giving these licenses away.

At one point in the class, I gave out the URL for a website where someone has built a simple study guide that has just the questions and correct answers, so students can use it for review. That document is 47 pages long. With all the wrong answers, it would be about twice that.

And, lets look at those questions. Quick - without looking it up - if you fail to answer a communication from the FCC they can A) Fine you, or B) Revoke your license. Which one of those is right? Since the book only says that you can be fined or lose your license, how would you know tha answer to that one without studying the entire question pool? When I finished teaching my two chapters, I took 20 minutes to go over the questions on those chapters that were clinkers like this. By the way, the test says the correct answer is B. I haven't read Part 97 yet to see if the question is even right.

By the way, I'm not criticizing the question pool committee's efforts. Creating any exam of this kind is a monster effort, and not all the clinkers are found. I intend to be involved in the next revision, however. Perhaps if more of us pitched in to help, we could help improve the exams.

The way that the test is composed, the applicant must study the entire 500+ question pool. That's not a trivial effort. Yes, I know people who've passed it without much study at all, but they are not typical. For most High School kids, it's a tough slog.

The Technician exam is not a suitable entry level exam. If someone had handed me that 500+ question pool to study instead of the 5 page Novice chapter of the License Manual, I'm not sure I'd have gone on to get the license.

With the Federal requirement to publish the questions and answers, I do not know how much we can improve the situation. I don't think FCC is free to change this. But I wish we could go back to the old secret test questions and published study guides. It was MUCH easier for the newbies and instructors.

I favor the ARRL proposal, warts and all.

RE: Remember When?

by KC8VWM on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>One MUST do something to EARN their license in order to respect and appreciate it. <<<<

Allan, while I appreciate your article, the question of "what" they should do to "earn" that license still remains.

If the intention is to advance our society of radio operators forward, then we need to focus our teaching and learning skills on what is new.

Modern day technology, requires modern day thinking.

Amateur radio should be a technical hobby, not an antiquated "old car collector" type of hobby.

Similar to rebuilding old collectible cars, learning CW or building old transmitters should be considered a great recreational pastime.

However, it doesn't accurately reflect what we need to know in our time of modern day technology.

I am concerned about the fact that Amateur radio is falling behind in this respect because so many seem to be stuck in the past.

The future advancement of Amateur radio will depend largely on the elimination of the old, and the implementation of the new.

73

Charles - KC8VWM

RE: Remember When?

by AE6IP on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> When these discussions errupt on this site the
> internet, processor control, and Wi-Fi are always
> quoted as the next best thing. Nothing could be
> further from the truth.

Next Best Thing? I've used the internet for over 20 years, been controlling electronics with computers for over 30, and have had a very nice WiFi net at home for 3 years. You're talking about old hat, old man.

> The internet is 95% advertising and vulnerable as
> hell. Any pimple faced 14 year old with the right
> tools and dedication could disable large parts of
> it. We want to transform Ham Radio into this??

This differs from goodoleboys with big amps intentionally jamming in what way?

> Processor control. Another fallacy of the modern
> age. Do we really need CPU's in our radios? We got
> along without them for 70+ years.

We got along without antibiotics for millenia. Care to give them up?

> The first lesson in engineering school should
> be, "just because you can do a thing doesn't
> neccesarily mean you should or need to do that
> thing".

The first lesson in engineering school should be that engineering almost always comes before science.

> Wi-Fi is a joke, plain and simple.

Oh yeah. When I'm sitting on my front deck on a spring day, with a lemonade and my laptop, watching the world go by as I telecompute, I laugh really hard at my wife.

> It serves no useful purpose other than to sell
> expensive wireless networking equipment to people
> who are taken with the whole "gee-whiz" factor of
> being able to surf the web or network while on the
> pot.

Don't know about your neck of the woods, but 'round these parts, it can be much cheaper to set up a WiFi than to set up a wired lan.

> Get this through your heads, Wi-Fi will never, and I
> mean NEVER, be as fast as a wired network. It's just
> plain physics.

Um, no. The plain physics has it it the other way. Electronic propagation in a wire is slower than propagation through air. The physics is in favor, eventually, of the wifi.

> All of you WiFi officianados should just pull the
> hook out.

And I thought *I* was a luddite. You've completely missed both the point and the value of WiFi.

> The people on this site who keep using these feeble
> examples of technological advancement that COULD be
> applied to Ham Radio need to reconsider and get some
> better analogies/examples.

I'm a fan of spread spectrum digital myself, along with various forms of parasitic modulation to increase the effective bandwidth of things like NTSC. It wouldn't hurt to introduce some FEC into the mix, as well, and maybe even some rate adaptive protocols.

I'm not a fan of software defined radio, cuz I don't think it's going to be as flexible as its adherents hope it will.

RE: Remember When?

by KB3BYW on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I just want to add a couple quick comments and pose a question. I am 21 years old, I have been a ham for six years and have a ton of radios that I bought so price has nothing to do with the subject of why aren’t there more younger hams. I agree with the ham who said it’s not the "IN" thing to do and isn’t just for the fact that’s its dorky in today’s society. People my age ask me what I do with these radios and I tell them and they respond so you talk to a bunch on old guys. So for you older hams, be happy for people like me because there are not many younger people who want to be hams and keep the hobby going, the FCC would love to sell some of the bands for commercial use. I personally think getting rid of the code completely and make the tests harder and broader is the way to go. (I know I’m going to get knocked for this) Fifty years ago there wasn’t much to ham radio, now there is packet, repeater systems, satellites, SSTV, and on and on. Let’s focus on the future not the past. For the hams who want to keep the code on the test and the hams who want to get rid of it how about this. Why don’t we have a set of tests with code like the previous tests what was it 5, 10, and 21 WPM plus written tests or what ever it was and then a more advanced and harder set of tests with out code. That way there are two ways to get a license, one for the people who want to learn the code and for the people who would rather learn more about the electronic and nor technical aspects of ham radio. Now for the question why do you older hams insist that CW is the most important part of ham radio, I don’t get it. And if the “I remember” means that much to you then go back, build that homebrewed rig and give us “ I wonder what the future will have in store for ham radio” your new radios, because apparently you don’t need them as much as us "idots".

Remember When?

by D0NUT on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

GETTING OLD IS HELL!

RE: Remember When?

by W0W on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Once again, most of you have failed to see the real issues here, and its easy to see how our politicians pull off what they do.

As the 21 yr old posted, his friends think he is weird and why he has all those radios.

The issue is "GIVE AWAY PROGRAMS" and dropping the standards to attract people. The people who would be attracted are NOT necessarily the people we want, unless you are the ARRL, and they just want warm bodies.

To attract, there has to be "ATTRACTION" To get ATTRACTION ,you have to "PROMOTE", "MARKET" and in
general, get peoples attention. A name everyone knows is "COKE" why, because it is PROMOTED every single day, and its NOT because they promote it by saying we've reduceded the COST by 1/2, or that they are giving it away. they "PROMOTE" it by making it ATTRACTIVE, the right thing to do etc.

If you want more HAMs, then you have to PROMOTE ham radio. Promote it everyday, make it attractive, make it SPECIAL, make people feel SPECIAL that they are interested in HAM radio, not by lowering the standards, and saying ANYONE can do it! We've already made it easy enough to get, now we need to make them want to get it.

Wake up, we NEED to STOP lowering the STANDARDS of EVERYTHING in the good ole USA. The USA was built on hi-standards, thus creating a better life, a better country in which to live . Now we want to just give it away to anyone who want it?

RE: Remember When?

by ON4SSC on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

First, let me introduce me. I'm a 32 years old new licensee, who got interested in the hobby 15 years ago.

I got my licence last year in september. By passing a single exam, I got the rights to use every band, from 160m to microwaves. All bands, all modes with full power. I successfully passed the test with 39 correct answers out of 42 questions. That's all I had to do ! Do you all think that's it's normal ? By simply memorizing previous exams questions and learning a minimum of electronics, everyone can be a ham with full rights. I would have preferred to have learned CW, even if I had to wait another year or so to pass the test. At least, it's something interesting I would have learned. No, We don't even have some form practical tests ! C'mon, restore the cw test. I don't think that removing the code requirement will do any good to the hobby. And I don't think it will attract a lot of new hams. Maybe peoples who want to use the bands like lots of CBers did, I mean as another way to phone ?

The point is, like a previous poster said, that we need to promote the hobby. It's not difficult to promote something that's not promoted at all (at least in my country).

Now, why would'nt we make more types of licences : a licence with more questions about electronics and a slower CW test ? Another with less questions about electronics but more practical questions and a faster CW test ? That way, we could target several types of peoples and everyone would still have a chance to pass.
But in any case, the CW test would survive.

73 de Stephane ON4SSC

RE: Remember When?

by WA3KYY on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KG6AMW wrote:

"Remember when we didn't have to read all this Bull Sh-t complaining about dumbing down. "

I haven't been alive that long. I've been hearing it since the 60's and looking at old issues of QST it was going on before I was born.

As the old saying goes:

"The more things change the more they stay the same."

73,
Mike

RE: Remember When?

by N0RKX on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>Don't know about your neck of the woods, but 'round these parts, it can be much cheaper to set up a WiFi than to set up a wired lan.<<

Factually incorrect. Everything about WiFi is more expensive, for maybe half the speed over a range of 100ft? Good choice.

>>Um, no. The plain physics has it it the other way. Electronic propagation in a wire is slower than propagation through air. The physics is in favor, eventually, of the wifi.<<

Electron propagation in a wire vs WiFi is irrelevant. The speed of electron propagation has miniscule effects on network performance. A wired network is so much better at fighting off the effects of EMI simply because it's running through twisted pairs. The top speed of a WiFi network today, using 802.11g, is 54Mb/s. That's if everything is working perfectly and nobody steps in front of an access point. Can't come close speed wise to a well built 100 or 1000 Mb/s network. Need I mention fiber?

WiFi is slow. WiFi is insecure. WiFi is a toy. But I digress. Yes, I remember when you had to EARN a license. If the ARRL proposal goes through the way it's currently written those days will be over. One writer may have been right though. Todays kids have the attention span of a gnat. Even if they do decide to get licensed the vast majority of them will soon get bored with it and go back to ICQ, MS Messenger, and Yahoo. Somebody tell me again why it's a good thing to "infuse" our hobby with this calibre of Ham.

RE: Remember When?

by NE1Z on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"WiFi is slow."

What does amateur radio top out at, 9600bps packet? Where are the 1-54 megabyte per second capable ham system breaking WiFi speed records? Nowhere!

"WiFi is insecure."

It is not if you know how to perform basic system admin! Excuses!

"WiFi is a toy. But I digress."

You are also condescending because you resent its' success without a ham license involved! Hams failed so get over it but don't put it down for succeeding where we failed!

"Todays kids have the attention span of a gnat."

Unlike OF hams who remember the past long before they were born & cling to it like they were there! "We used to..." is used more than "we developed..."

"...if they do decide to get licensed the vast majority of them will soon get bored with it and go back to ICQ, MS Messenger, and Yahoo..."

People on ham radio are mostly old (mean age of 58 years old), mostly boring & totally lack the ability to change without looking down on any newcomers as second class citizens?

I would run back to the computer too, along with my 802.11 network that blows the doors off what ham radio has to offer as "elite" or "groundbreaking"!!! Slow Scan says it all really!

Hams, look around. Where's those megabytes per second???

Bill

Remember When?

by KE6IRP on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

you're right---but dropping the code is a big mistake...

RE: Remember When?

by KG6RRQ on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

In my opinion, there is too much electronic babble questions on the test and not enough about rules, proper operating protocol etc. I mean come on...The equipment today is solid state and some of those questions relate to equipment from decades ago. Yes, I know some people are still using older gear and that's one fun part of the hobby...But in reality, most new hams are buying the new stuff.

The nice thing about the simpler equipment today is (or should be) that you don't have to be a complete tech' head to use it. I for one don't have that much aptitude for electronics and tech' stuff yet find amateur and other aspects of radio fascinating and alot of fun. That's one reason I finally got into it...It wasn't quite like the "old days" anymore and you didn't have to learn quite as much info' that was necessary at one time but not so much today.

In reality, it's a hobby. Yes, I know hams do some great thing during disasters and other times of need but I think even that is becoming less and less. Just enjoy the HOBBY!

RE: Remember When?

by NE1RD on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K0RGR wrote:
> Once again, I spent Saturday in a room full of
> enthusiastic students, striving to earn their Technician
> licenses. Through lots of free publicity in the local
> newspaper, the high schools, and the efforts of the good
> people at our local Radio Shack stores, we recruited 13
> newbies! I'm also happy to say that half of them intend to
> learn the code, even though they may not ever need it. Two
> of the students are under 18.

Thank you. I salute your efforts. Seriously: thank you!

I am a volunteer examiner. Of the many men and
women I have helped test, not one has come in with a
air of 'entitlement' that has been implied by this
post or the many others I have read. They have, to a
person, come in and solemnly taken their exams, been
very respectful to the VEs, been happy when they've
passed, and, in those unhappy circumstances when
they had fallen short, said they would study harder,
work harder, and come back again when they were
ready. Nobody came in looking for a 'rubber stamp'
or a 'give-away'.

I'm very confused by the original post from Alan Jones
(W4LGH). Mr. Jones, you seem like an active and
perhaps model ham in many ways. You are the ARES
Emergency Coordinator in your county (St. Johns, FL)
(see http://www.saars.net/public_service.htm ) and
seem otherwise active in your community. I'm not
sure if I've pieced this together properly but
it looks as though you recently upgraded (Nov 2003)
from Technician to General. If I've got this
right, congratulations!

Now, that said, why is it that you believe that
people are trying to give stuff away? Who is it
that are you have heard 'cry about it'? Finally,
if such an undercurrent exists, how is it that
you have been hearing it, and we, who actually
test folks, have not?

True, the international community have been making
decisions that have changed the requirements for
amateur radio. The FCC will also consider making
changes consistent with those ideas presented at
the last international meeting. The ARRL, and
other organizations, have weighed in with opinions.
But, those are just opinions; the final say will
be the FCC and, hopefully, be in the best interests
of amateur radio and the international community
of hams.

Your post is quite accusatory yet I can't reconcile
your assertion that people are advocating 'giving it
away' with my experiences helping mint new hams or
upgrading existing hams. Something doesn't add up.

I concede there will always be folks who will 'work
the system' to get the most of what is available.
But your scathing indictment seems to indicate a
more insidious situation where groups of malcontents
are actively saying 'gimme gimme gimme'. It isn't
quite to the point where an ugly mob carrying
torches is marching down the street shouting
'HF now! HF now!' ... but it leans towards it!

I can only hope this is more than 'I had to
pass the test in November and now people after
me are getting it for free'. If I'm right about
your recent upgrade, you might see how one might
draw this conclusion. I do sincerely hope it is
a more principled objection, though your original
premise (the one with the mob with torches)
seems thin to me. In either case, there is a
disconnect here I can't get my head around.

-- Scott (NE1RD)

RE: Remember When?

by KD5UJX on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Things are what they are and will be what they will be. Make the best out of it or sell your gear.

I for one will do what I can to promote Ham radio and bring as many new people into this service (yes, damn it, it IS a service that happens to be a great hobbie) as I can.

Remember When?

by KC4ZGP on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No point complaining here. The FCC is changing the requirements. You know the FCC, an office of the United States Government which happens to be overfilling with liberals. Ah there's the problem! It the liberals. Liberals love dumbing down folks and then when all are dumbed down, off come their masks. Ta-Da the communists! Rid your community of liberals and you eliminate the problem.

RE: Remember When?

by NE1RD on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> No point complaining here. The FCC is changing the requirements.
> You know the FCC, an office of the United States Government which
> happens to be overfilling with liberals. Ah there's the problem!
> It the liberals. Liberals love dumbing down folks and then when
> all are dumbed down, off come their masks. Ta-Da the
> communists! Rid your community of liberals and you
> eliminate the problem.

Now I'm really confused. I thought the conservatives were the
majority in the House and Senate, were sitting in the White House,
and that the Chairman of the FCC was a sitting Cabinet member's
son. Which one of these is the liberal?

-- Scott (NE1RD)

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by NE1Z on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Sec. 97.1 Basis and purpose.
<snip>
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's
proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the
radio art."

How can we justify this circa 2004? Where's the Advancement?

"(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur
service through rules which provide for advancing
skills in both the communication and technical phases
of the art."

The rules are the rules & "advancing skills" need advancing technology, which I fail to see around me. Where is this advancement in amateur radio?

I also have a good laugh at you who poo-poo individual petitions to the FCC. Unlike the ARRL, the FCC is a democratic body where ALL APPLICANTS ARE EQUAL, by law! Since 6 out of 7 ARE NOT MEMBERS of the ARRL, they are still free to petition the FCC without anyone's approval.

I just thought I'd point that out to you legal secretaries & paralegals working your way through ham radio via ARRL programming.

Where is this advancement?

802.11x?
Trunking?
"Push-to-talk"?
Live video transmission?
Geo-Stat sats?

Connect the dots yet? We can't even justify our own purpose any longer!

Bill

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by AD6WL on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well there are plenty of non-technical radio services out there. You can get on CB, FRS, GMRS and MURS without having to take a test. There is nothing wrong with these services. They are for non-technical folks.

There are other technical types that like computers. Hey, no license is required and you can set up your LANS and WANS. You can chat around the world with AOL, MSN etc. But, these ARE NOT ham radio.

Ham Radio is about technical skill and communication with Radios. Not Computers. I have networked computers at home connected to my radios. But without the Radios it is only a computer network, not ham radio. Without the computers it is still Ham Radio.

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by NE1Z on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Ham Radio is about technical skill and communication with Radios."

It is about "advancing the radio art".

You fail to point to any technical advancement of the radio art because you simply can't.

So what about it?

Bill

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by OLDFART13 on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004
"Notice that some posters have to rely on scatalogical language. Really shows off the intelligence AND maturity quite well."

by OLDFART13 on February 22, 2004
"Did you mean scatological?"

by KA4KOE on February 22, 2004
"OLDFART No, I meant vulgar, gutter, trash mouth language, to be more precise and crystal clear, you ole curmudgeon you!!"

Lets see, Scatalogical is not a word. I stated that perhaps you meant Scatological. Your only response was to be rude, with offense and totally inappropriate remarks. But I understand your type. You can’t see past the plank in your own eye.

So, please show me where I used vulgar, trash mouth language.

Remember When?

by N1USB on February 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hello to everyone.....I have had my Tech license now for about 8 yrs. I have tried learning the code and have had a hard time. Why do I care if this new licensing goes through ?

1: I can use the HF bands that I so much have tried to get to.

2: I can honestly say that if 1 out of every 10 hams that are upset of what they might be doing took the time to teach the "NEW" guys better ways to be a AMATUER then it would be at least 50 percent a better place then now. All I have learned by listening in on the 80m and 20m bands is just How bad some of the AMATUERS there can act exactly like the people they claim will be on the frequencies when it passes.
You know...this is not the way to show why you deserve the HF portion of the bands. OK maybe the testing should be a little harder to upgrade but that will not make a better AMATUER, only one who has taken the time to study and learn.

3: I will hopefully be able to pass my code test soon as I do not want to be "GIVEN ANYTHING" as a few have claimed is going to happen. I want to be judged by my operating abilities and not my "GIFT" from anyone.

PLEASE THINK OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT TRY TO DO THINGS RIGHT ON THE BAND AND DO NOT CLASSIFY ALL THE NEW AMATUERS AS "THE CB GROUP" OR "I CANT DO IT GIVE ME THE HF GROUP" I hope I did not offend anyone and hope that somewhere someone will try to help out a person trying to advance in AMATUER radio instead of knocking him for not learning the code.
73' de N1USB Jose

RE: Remember When?

by AE6IP on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>Don't know about your neck of the woods, but 'round these parts, it can be much cheaper to set up a WiFi than to set up a wired lan.<<

> Factually incorrect. Everything about WiFi is more
> expensive, for maybe half the speed over a range of
> 100ft? Good choice.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I know of two cases in which it is routinely cheaper to install WiFi than to install fiber. I'll give you a hint: you're not considering the cost of installing the cable plant.

> Electron propagation in a wire vs WiFi is
> irrelevant. The speed of electron propagation has
> miniscule effects on network performance.

Signal propagation. And the electron propagation claim was yours, not mine. I was only pointing out the error in your "physics" claim.

> A wired network is so much better at fighting off
> the effects of EMI simply because it's running
> through twisted pairs.

I guess you've never put together a twisted pair campus-wide lan in an area with a lot of lightning.

> The top speed of a WiFi network today, using
> 802.11g, is 54Mb/s. That's if everything is working
> perfectly and nobody steps in front of an access
> point.

Your claim wasn't about today, it was about "always". And it was based on some bad physics.

> Can't come close speed wise to a well built 100 or
> 1000 Mb/s network. Need I mention fiber?

Another point you seem to be missing is that networks come in hierarchies, and not everything on the net has to run at maximum bandwidth. It makes sense to trade-off speed for flexibility in a lot of applications, since what you're trying to optimize is user effectiveness, not raw bandwidth.

> WiFi is slow.

So?

> WiFi is insecure.

No more so than wire taps.

> WiFi is a toy.

Except to those who use it on a regular basis to improve their efficiency.

> But I digress. Yes, I remember when you had to EARN
> a license.

There wasn't any such time. This whole nonsense about "earning" licenses completely misses the point of getting the license in the first place. If amateur radio was about "earning" licenses, then we'd never turn on the gear again once we got our extra tickets.

Fortunately, it's not. It's about what you do once you've got the license -- and that's entirely up to you.

> If the ARRL proposal goes through the way
> it's currently written those days will be over.

That's right. No more walking up hill both ways to school.

> One writer may have been right though. Todays kids
> have the attention span of a gnat.

You have obviously never set in on a MUD or other online role playing game. "Today's kids" often go 20 hours at a crack focusing on just one thing.

> Even if they do decide to get licensed the vast
> majority of them will soon get bored with it and go
> back to ICQ, MS Messenger, and Yahoo. Somebody tell
> me again why it's a good thing to "infuse" our hobby
> with this calibre of Ham.

Another red herring. The vast majority of new licensees have always dropped out of the hobby shortly after being licensed.

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by KC8VWM on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>Where is this advancement?

802.11x?
Trunking?
"Push-to-talk"?
Live video transmission?
Geo-Stat sats?

Connect the dots yet? We can't even justify our own purpose <<<<

That is a very good point Bill. In an earlier message I posted that I am concerned about the fact that Amateur radio is falling behind in this respect because so many seem to be stuck in the past.

The future advancement of Amateur radio will depend largely on the elimination of the old, and the implementation of the new.

While appreciating age old traditions in Amateur Radio, I often wonder why we seem to be stuck on using what is now considered obsolete technologies in radio communication.

Some of these less efficient technologies like SSTV, CW, RTTY, Packet, etc. were fine during their time.

Today, we need to consider if continuing the use of these outdated modes are truly in the interests of the future advancement of Amateur Radio.

We need more technical developers advancing the hobby to the next plateau, not more followers of "age old" traditions in the boys club.

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by AD6WL on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Advancement of our art is fine and is happening but there are other purposes of Amateur Radio. Some like to point to one as the end all, but let’s look at the others also:

(a)Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

Definition of Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

So, to sum it up Amateur Radio is about:

Public Service.
Providing Emergency Communications.
Advancing Ones Technical Skills.
Self-Training and Technical investigations by persons interested in RADIO techniques.
Provide a Reservoir of trained operators, technicians and electronics experts.
Enhance international goodwill.

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by NE1Z on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Advancement of our art is fine and is happening but there are other purposes of Amateur Radio. Some like to point to one as the end all, but let’s look at the others also"

You can't cite any "groundbreaking advancements", so then he cites the residual "fine business" ARRL montra as a purpose. Look around, everyone & everything has an antenna! In other words, blah, blah, blah...

The last technical advancement as far as I am concerned was APRS in about mid 80's. It later spawned AVL & now GPS location of cellphones for 911! Where are the WB4APR's & the WA4DSY's? Likely Part 15 & will stay there!

I really suggest you critics look around in google.com by plugging in phrases like Cybiko, "902-928mhz", "2.4Ghz", "5.7GHz" & see what's going on around us! Maybe read about Nextel's iDEN or other forms of mobile trunking advancements in radio, then ask "Why not on ham radio"? The answer strips away the ARRL charade about purpose, as recited by AD6WL.

The agony of clinging to CW proves too many can't even get within 100 years of being progressive & have really lost our place in the radio world !

Bill

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by WA1M on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> You can't cite any "groundbreaking advancements"
> [...]
> The last technical advancement as far as I am concerned
> was APRS in about mid 80's. It later spawned AVL & now > GPS location of cellphones for 911! Where are the
> WB4APR's & the WA4DSY's? Likely Part 15 & will stay
> there!

W7PUA and AC5OG come to mind.

Remember When?

by KC8WCW on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

At this point, Amateur Radio can be classified as a slightly more mature and substantially better organized waste of time than CB radio. Hams can legally talk about nothing, with a lot more power and in a lot more places than CB'ers. Otherwise, they essentially do the same thing with only a handfull of exceptions.

They do it however, by attaching various surface formalities that act as a disguise. It helps to create the illusion that they're engaged in activities that carry a much higher level of importance than actually exists.

The testing process should remain vigorous though. Were it not for their vast knowledge of radios, most would have nothing else to talk about.

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by AD6WL on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"The answer strips away the ARRL charade about purpose, as recited by AD6WL."

No, my source is the FCC not the ARRL.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by NE1Z on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"W7PUA and AC5OG come to mind"

A DSP 2 meter "all-mode" is all you can offer?

Pretty lame since sideband is ~1950 technology?

DSP sounds like crap but the SDR's concept will ultimately be the downfall of our freedom, license or not!

The clueless agony continues...

Bill

RE: Remember The Rest of Part 97?

by WA1M on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> A DSP 2 meter "all-mode" is all you can offer?
> Pretty lame since sideband is ~1950 technology?

Er, no. I offered software-defined radio technology as an example of an area where amateur radio continues to contribute to "the advancement of the radio art."

> DSP sounds like crap but the SDR's concept will
> ultimately be the downfall of our freedom, license or
> not!

Wow -- that's a pretty far-reaching effect for a technology you dismissed one sentence ago.

Remember When?

by KE6CSL on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Absolutely wonderful, Alan! I can't recall an article in eham.net that generated so many comments (115+) in three days, Hi Hi......Tom KE6CSL

Remember When?

by WD0BCX on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

GOOD TIMES AREN'T OVER IF YOU TRY.

HELP! I've been reading this forum and have fallen and I can't get up.

Well folks I must NOT be living in the real world after reading the posts above.

I am a 55 year old WASP (I know politicly incorrect) working 40 a week at a " BIG UNION JOB" and I can't afford a prepaid cell phone or $150 shoes.

My house is paid off and the only payment I have is a car payment of $170 a month. ( Did I mention that the XYL also works full time ?) AND I STILL CAN'T AFFORD A BOAT, CAMPER TRAILER and A CABIN AT THE LAKE!

Must be that the world has passed me and I have lost total control of my life.

I do however enjoy HAM RADIO !!!

EVERY rig I own is used, hand me down or just a hamfest pickup.

I recently purchased an old Kenwood TS-900, 1970's vintage for $100 and have had $1,000,000 worth of fun with it .

CONCLUSION? IT AIN"T HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE OR YOU SPEND STUPID! It's how much YOU put into the hobby !!

Maybe you need to turn on the rig and LISTEN and then LISTEN and LISTEN and then when you have half an idea what to do and do it correctly JUMP IN.

OR try any of the many other fasits of AMATEUR RADIO. Their is plenty for all of us out there.

Find what you like , young or old, newcomer or electronics genius, their is something out there for EVERYONE.

JUST DO IT and quit bitching !!!

WHAT does this have to do with the origenal posted idea?

ONLY that things truely do change but we still have ONE OF THE GREATEST HOBBYS IN THE WORLD AND IT IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT !!!

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The above post is meant to be sung to the music of “Last Train to Clarkesville.”

K6BBC

RE: Remember When?

by KB1KNN on February 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have a tech classs license and i plan to upgrage before july. i want to do the code test. my father and grandfather were both hams and they both had to pass the code test. code is a great thing!! perhaps more people would start learning code if they just started! many people think that learning code is going to be as hard as becoming fluent in german. more people would also start if they knew what they got after they learned the code. perhaps some general and exta class hams should organize a net that spans continents and then inviting some techs over. if theese techs eperiance the thrill of talking to some guy in europe or africa they will want o get their liscense.
just some thoughts
KB1KNN
Steve

RE: Remember When?

by W4LGH on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well...I am going to post one more msg, then call it quits, as I can see everyone has their own agenda, and everyone reads into what everyone else says and see's what they want to see. If everyone put this much effort into ham radio, we'd all be Extras!

My original post had nothing to do with code/no code. I have stated many times, that I do not care whether they keep it or do away with it. I had to learn it, and that only proved that I wanted it bad enough to do it. Thats all element 1 did, it was a performance test. It proved that you could actually perform a task.
Those who enjoy code, I hope they continue to enjoy it, and use it as much as the want. Life is full of performance tests, and we do them everyday, not even knowing we do them.

I am NOT an "Old Timer" as I am only 50 yrs old, but I am not a newbie either, and have been involved with amateur radio for almost 40 years, with a couple of short periods where I was away from the hobby, with major life changes, new jobs, nasty divorce etc.

Being born in the early mid-50's, I did grow up in a different era, some could call it BI / BC / BX (before Interenet/ before computers / before X-box) I did grow up in a family electronics business, and fould it to be very exciting, so ham radio was only a natural. It had then all the hi-tech toys of its time.

I am ALL for and have worked very hard at trying to get new people into the hobby, including my wife. I volunteer my time as the local ARES EC, to try and give back, what I have gotten. I have helped other with getting equipment to get on the air, both monitarily, and radios out on loan. I helped build a mobile trailer, in which we have a complete station set up, that we've carried out on many "Special Events" to attract new people.

What I have said, or maybe should say, I have tried to say, is that if we want new people, we need to promote it and make it as exciting as possible, not just give away license in hopes that that it will give us the gains we seek.

I do not believe in lowering standards with anything, quality of work, quality of education, quality of products, and generally Quality of life for all.

I do think the written tests could stand to be re-vamped and include more questions about rules & regs, safety questions, and basic principles of operations.

This is what I was trying to say in my original post.
And I certainly hope that other will interpet what I have tried to say this time.

Keep the standards high, but fair to all and obtainable, Promote the hobby to as many people as you can, and keep the excitement going. I tell someone everyday, about Ham radio, and how much fun its been for me. I am also a Volunteer Examiner, and we hold test sessions every 2 months.

73 to all
W4LGH - Alan

Remember When?

by N9CYS on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I think this thread has gotten a little off subject. So I thought I'd bring it back.

Well, here's my two cents.

The code requirement is gone. Like it or not. I don't like it but I can live with it. As the band plan goes on HF, I have the freedom to operate cw anywhere my license permits. And I know I can still enjoy a HF CW QSO between a SSB QSO when I turn on the filters and adjust the DSP.

But, I really think the written test needs to be beefed up and the published question pool eliminated. It's really a short-term memory test. Let's face it - how technically proficient are most 8,9,10 year old Extra licensees? Nothing against those kids - they have worked hard to memorize the material. Much harder than a lot of whiners here who would rather be grandfathered up in privileges. This sounds too much like an government entitlement. Oh wait, that's right, it is the FEDERAL communications commission.

Right now, it ought to be called Amateur Announcing. I can't believe the really BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL radio/electronic questions I read here and listen to on the air. These were concepts that I UNDERSTOOD, NOT MEMORIZED as a Novice years ago. When the Novice test was just twenty questions with no question pool. BTW, I used the ARRL handbook, as a study guide. I didn't know everything ( still don't), but I understood enough to know the correct answer.

We graduate kids who cannot read or divide, authorize incompetent drivers to operate vehicles and now grant announcing licenses to folks who cannot calculate Ohms Law, understand SWR or know how even the most basic circuits work. I mean, some hams today actually BUY dipoles, inverted vees and G5RV's PRE-BUILT!!!!!

I recently heard a roundtable on a local repeater discussing why one fella couldn't get an old "Lollipop" (jargon for a D-104, I presume) working properly on his new rig. I explained that an old hi-Z mic can't be hooked up to a new rig expecting a low-Z mic without proper matching. I gather they thought a mic was a mic.

No, I didn't tell them how to match impedance. Way too easy. They wouldn't learn unless they looked it up. (Shame on me - not a good elmer.) I suggested that they look up impedances and transformers in the League Handbook.

Guess what? None of them owned a Handbook!!!

One of them even called me an A**HOLE - just because I wouldn't tell them the answer outright. I then offered to fix the problem for a paltry sum of $100 - $5 for parts and $95 for my time and knowledge. I'm sure some of you on this board think that guy was right about me.

It's a shame what's happened to our once proud hobby. Cheapened by lack of initiative, ignorance and greed.

Jim
N9CYS

RE: Remember When?

by WA1M on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> No, I didn't tell them how to match impedance. Way too
> easy. [...] I suggested that they
> look up impedances and transformers in the League
> Handbook.
>
> Guess what? None of them owned a Handbook!!!

Must be part of the League boycott.

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Gosh Jim. Withholding the answer was a bit a*** holeish, don’t you think?

Remember When?

by KC2HJN on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N9CYS,
With all due respect, is that why new hams should respect the long time ones? A fellow ham has a question and is told to go look it up.

This is not intended as a flame, honestly. A legit question.

(I'm sure someone will just say he was just too lazy to find the answer....I guess they know it all and never asked someone a question.)

73

RE: Remember When?

by N9CYS on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

That's "adjective" is not actually a word...I LOOKED it UP! ;o) But even in slang usage, which is what I presume you're intending, drop the last "e".

Jim

RE: Remember When?

by N9CYS on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey, I told them they needed an impendance matching transformer. If they had even a little initiative (or didn't want to buy a handbook), they could have "googled" it. I just did and found a few pages of links. Plus, I learned a few more things about impedance matching, newer switchable-impedance mics and other interesting things, just searching for the right link. Imagine, I enriched myself!

People aren't learning to spell today because they have a spell checker on their PC. (Although based on posts I see everywhere on the net, it seems most PC users don't even use that crutch.

Hey, I guess I should show up for them at the next VE session too? Just let give me a few weeks to memorize the question pool.

Jim

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Jim, Jim, Jim. Why such a bleak outlook on you fellow hams? As Neil Young says, “A little love an affection, in everything you do, will make the world a better place, with or without you.”

RE: Remember When?

by NE1RD on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Alan,

Thank you. Your last post stands in stark contrast to the
initial one and makes sense. Advocating high standards,
enthusiasm, and hard work is fairly uncontroversial. Had
this post led the thread, with its clarity and lack of 'bile',
I'm guessing many of the follow-ups would have taken
a different tone as well.

Good luck. Thank you again for the hard work you've done
for your community. 73.

-- Scott (NE1RD)

RE: Remember When?

by KB3KAQ on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"I feel a little sorry for those hams who opt out to learn and use CW: it's rewarding, challenging, fun, and is part of the heritage of amateur radio."

having recently passed the CW exam and upgrading to General, i want to explore CW more and more. not only is it fun to send, receiving is like solving a puzzle or putting together pieces to a mystery. who is this on the other end? where does he/she live? wow, he's in Japan and is just starting out in ham radio too!

that's the excitement that hours and hours of learning the code were for. i have an open mind about many things, and heck, i was even thinking of picking up a boat anchor to play around with in the shack. once my CW skills improve, i'm going to put together a Rockmite.

as for attracting younger hams, i feel that pre-teens and teens are the wrong audience. they have far too many competing interests at that point in life. school, sports, video games, computers, dating, hanging with friends and in general, being kids.

the ARRL, of which i'm a member, would be better served if they looked at attracting the late 20-early 30 crowd. i'm 31 and have been married for 5 years, have a 2.5 year old son, and am settling into a career. i have been spending a few hours on the weekends when my son is down for his nap and the XYL is out to work DX on 15m or do some ragchewing on 20m.

i work with computers and quite frankly, i don't want to do much with them in terms of hobbies. radio allows me to explore something that isn't hardwired into a backbone system that is 100% reliable (ok 95%). radio allows me to have adventures and discover new people. i get to play detective as a stream of dahs and dits come out of the headphones as i turn the knob.

a romantic ideal, sure, but why the hell not. it's my hobby and i can embrace how i wish. i'm thankful that i am part of several execellent clubs that have embraced me and have encouraged me to upgrade and learn. i challenge all the veteran hams to help out a newcomer, it's a great experience and you just might learn something too.

73,
Steve, KB3KAQ

RE: Remember When?

by NJ0E on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

to KI4ABS:

> No, I don't use CW. Someday? Maybe. I might now,
> but they don't sell new receivers with keys. Also,
> I prefer hearing someones voice than dits and dahs.

i recommend that you allocate a certain amount of
your operating time to cw, if you don't want to
forget it completely. maybe 10-15%, or more, if
you like.

you will wring alot more miles per watt under
marginal conditions with cw than you will with
ssb. particularly with the down sunspot cycle,
it really does help alot.

there are some economical telegraph keys from

http://www.mtechnologies.com/ameco/keyosc.htm

what i have is the basic brass japanese key, like
the ameco AM-K4; i used it for quite a while before
purchasing an electronic keyer, and i still use it
periodically (it's about 28 years old now, still
works fine). mount it on a good base, or even
the desktop itself if you like.

also, telegraph keys are sold all the time on ebay.
just search for 'telegraph key' or 'J-38'

73
scott nj0e

RE: Remember When?

by WA3KYY on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NE1Z wrote:

"What does amateur radio top out at, 9600bps packet? Where are the 1-54 megabyte per second capable ham system breaking WiFi speed records? Nowhere! "

Actually it tops out at 54Mbps the current 802.11g rate. Amateurs can use the 2.4 and 5 GHz WiFi devices with higher power on amateur frequencies to establish amateur WiFi networks. Check QST and the ARRL web site for information on how this is done. It operates on a different channel than the default used in homes and buisnesses and a unique SSID that is not broadcast.

It's pretty neat and with direction gain antennas and high power repeaters beats the pants off the commerical "Hot Spot" WiFi setups.

73,
Mike

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by NJ0E on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To: NE1Z

> Where is this advancement?

PSK31
the regenerative receiver (edwin armstrong was a ham)
the superheterodyne receiver "" ""
frequency modulation "" ""
the single signal superheterodyne
the g5rv antenna

73,
scott nj0e

RE: Remember When?

by NJ0E on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KB6KAQ:

> i have an open mind about many things, and heck, i
> was even thinking of picking up a boat anchor to
> play around with in the shack. once my CW skills
> improve, i'm going to put together a Rockmite.

do it! you will enjoy the rockmite.

i have a 40 meter rockmite, and enjoy taking it on backpacking trips.

73,
scott nj0e

RE: Remember When?

by NE1Z on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Wow, 802.11 "high power repeaters" & "direction antennas" for a ham network?

Nothing says CB better than the ARRL's irresponsible insistance on promoting high power Part 97 operation in the Part 15 802.11x bands! It clearly disrupts DSSS operation, as intended, by design.

The design is a solution to "sharing" channels. That is an unknown concept since hams assume some sort of entitlement to everything RF!!! We haven't built our own network so we have to piggyback on a consumer network & openly promote disrupting it?

If you can't do what you want with Part 15 compliant power, you are clearly doing something wrong. If you can't do it with a better antenna, get a clue, not an amplifier!

The clueless agony continues...

Bill

Remember When?

by W6TH on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W4LGH Alan,

Very good listing and proud of you to let the world know the truth about the ARRL. Here is words of interest you may want to read as well as others:

ANOTHER GRANT TO ARRL

from United Technology Corporation for $150,000 over three years to
apply to all three ARRL Emergency Communications Levels. People
completing these courses will supposedly be reimbursed out of this
money. An earlier Federal Corporation for National and Community
Service award was for $543,000 and including yet earlier grants from
these two entities, ARRL has received $726,000. AARA has asked ARRL
to account for this money with no response to date.

Nothing in this world is going to compete with the ARRL as you can see from this article, the ARRL is mobbed and bought and paid for.

All big stuff always becomes corrupt and the greed for money. We hams have had it. No longer fun and maybe the youth of today see this.

73

-- .: ---

RE: Remember When?

by WA3KYY on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Bill NE1Z,

Did you read the articles describing these amateur WiFi networks? They purposefully do not use the same channel used by the devices as they come from the local computer store. All activity is on channel 5. By "high power" they mean 1W compared to 30-250mW of the typical Part 15 WiFi device. Using 1W and high gain omni and directional antennas under Part 97 rules, amateurs can link Access Points over much greater distances than Part 15 devices can and provide greater coverage per Access Point.

If you can't see the advantages of this in a number of amateur radio applications compared to what can be done soley under Part 15 rules you haven't given it any thought at all. Streaming video from neighborhoods hit by a tornado back to the county Emergancy Management Office from on site Skywarn spotters is just one such idea.

73,
Mike

Remember When?

by HAMDUDE on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

ARRL`S agenda $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

RE: Remember When?

by NE1Z on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"ARRL has received $726,000"

Not bad, but they still need more because sales are down, so send it on!

W6TH, good find! However, you had better duck & put that flack jacket on.

If you dare attack the ARRL over funding, you are not going to get a Christmas card from Newington!!

Bill

Remember When?

by KB4ZVM on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I live in repeater Nirvana. I am in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains. I can raise more than a score of repeaters with less than a watt. On these repeaters, I hear many, many no-code techs. To a person, they all strive to use perfect operating procedures. They are also very courteous.

I also spend quite a bit of time on the HF bands. Here, I listen to profanity, racial, ethnic, political, and religious slurs, as well as deliberate interference.

I try to be a very objective and analytical person. Therefore, I must conclude that eliminating the CW requirement is *not* a threat to the hobby. If anything, I must conclude that it will improve the hobby.

I also work many, many proficient CW operators (more proficient than me) who say they got into the hobby via the no-code route. Once licensed, they became curious about CW, and learned it because they wanted to, not because they had to! Isn't this the point?

I was first licensed in 1959 shortly before my 12th birthday. I have been active in the hobby ever since. It still amazes me how much I learn every day. Any license (every license) is truly a license to learn. Get someone started, and then stand back and watch what they accomplish. You will be amazed.

BTW, I feel that a license bestows responsibilites as well as privileges. If someone asks me a question for which I know the answer, I feel that it is my duty to mentor them. That encourages them to ask again, which is important. To do otherwise makes you what you are called!

Dan Allen
KB4ZVM

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

That’s right Dan. So much fuss is given to a mode of communication that exchanges information at only 13WPM or so. Many, but not all, people who are obsessed with this think at that speed so naturally they are narrow minded. I have observed many of the same attributes you have on HF. Frankly, there is often very little difference between 80 meters and 11 meters. Somehow over the past years it has become acceptable to talk like a ignorant hick on ham radio. And guess what, most of these folks have passed CW test in excess of 5WPM. I for one cannot wait until a new breed of ham, one with more to talk about THAT TECHNICAL JUNK-NONSENSE, arrives on HF. BRING THEM ON!

K6BBC

Remember When?

by KC2IJI on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Get Over It !

I'm sure in 1950 you were the big guy, who could talk to the world when no one else could. The equipment was expensive, and the licencing process obtuse.

Today, we live in a world of cheap electronics. My cell phone is far more complex than my ham stuff, and it's disposable.

When I first became interested in ham radio, in 1979, I could not afford even a basic rig. A CB was much cheaper, and you could talk on it-as a 16 year old, it just made more sense at the time.

Today, as an older person, I can buy a ham radio that the military in 1979 couldn't afford (sorta), and work the world. I don't care if my neighbors are impressed or not, nor do I feel that I have it "easy", since I could be a Tech without code. My HT is the size of a pack of cigarettes, but covers SW to 900 mhz. What's wrong with this ?

Sorry, the old days are gone. A modern corvette will take any older musclecar, and give 20 mpg and cleaner exhaust with a 100k emissions warranty. My 7 year old thinks cell phones were always here.

I'm tired of hearing all the older guys bitch because you no longer have to turn your own coils and take an exam from some hung-over FCC employee. I missed catching plate voltage on my Key- I guess that's bad too, huh ?

I'm enjoying the hobby, on 2, 6 and 440, and once my tech licence is upgraded to HF by the FCC, I'll enjoy HF too.

Come on, guys, lighten up !

Casey
KC2IJI

RE: Remember When?

by NJ0E on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC:

> Frankly, there is often very little difference between 80 meters and 11 meters. Somehow over the past years it has become acceptable to talk like a ignorant hick on ham radio.

i think, perhaps, you meant 75 meters? i've heard very
little of what you describe on 80 meters, and i'm very
active on 80. much of what i hear is section, region,
and area traffic nets, qrp'ers, vintage radio restorers,
and 5 band dxcc chasers.

80m < 3750 khz
75m >= 3750 khz

73
scott nj0e

RE: Remember When?

by KC8VWM on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

So, where is 77 meters located?

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

And your point is NJ0E?

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC has never said anything worthwhile about any person, place or thing. He is a old windbag that is helping to destroy ham radio.

He is a person of few words and speaks alot.

K6BBC is not to be called a friend. Best to ignore him.

- .: ---

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W6TH!!! My Uncle George. I guess you got kicked from QRZ.COM for you "outburst." Well, I still love ya!!! Your friend in Ham Radio,

K6BBC (the windbag)

Remember When?

by KG4ZXK on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well when you have almost every other nation dropping the Morse Code requirement it's going to be hard to keep it here in the US.

I plan on learning the code but I feel it shouldn't be used as a barrier to HF. It's a mode like every other mode.

If you want to keep the code then the clubs should promote the code to keep it alive. The band plans should keep the code sections.

Stop whining and begging the Governement to keep it.

I have learned more about Amateur Radio since I've gotten my license and been able to use it then reading a book and waiting for my call to come.

I'm tired of the older hams crying about how we should do things because they had to do it.

If the hobby is dying you have yourselves to blame. The hobby is a lot of fun but you have to change with the times and find new ways to promote the hobby to bring people in.

RE: Remember When We Advanced the Art?

by NE1Z on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NJ0E?

The same Extra class NJ0E that claims a G5RV is a current "technical advancement"?

It is if you are researching the ultimate air cooling of a dummy load.

Otherwise, homebrew a dipole or do you need a program to do that?

Bill

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

by K6BBC on February 26, 2004
W6TH!!! My Uncle George. I guess you got kicked from QRZ.COM for you "outburst." Well, I still love ya!!! Your friend in Ham Radio,

STOP RIGHT THERE FELLOW.

I resent the fact that you love me. Keep within your own company as I am not your friend and never was/will be. I do not believe in the same sex marriages, find yourself some-one else and keep me out of your love and love life.

Good luck on your future findings.

W6TH

-- .: -

RE: Remember When?

by NJ0E on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> And your point is NJ0E?

earlier, you said:

> Frankly, there is often very little difference
> between 80 meters and 11 meters. Somehow over
> the past years it has become acceptable to talk
> like a ignorant hick on ham radio.

i said:

? much of what i hear is section, region,
? and area traffic nets, qrp'ers, vintage
? radio restorers, and 5 band dxcc chasers.

my experience on -80- meters is in stark contrast
to what you have portrayed; mostly courteous,
public-spirited operation.

what i hear on -80- meters is by and large what i
would expect of an amateur radio service that is
functioning it should.

73,
scott nj0e

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NJ0E I agree with you Scott and tune and operate the 75 and the 80 meter band all day and night and have yet to hear all this riff raff mentioned on these bands.

This complaint from K6BBC is something he imagines and the age is catching up with him, maybe an old man that is seeing things and hearing things that just don't happen. We must feel sorry for the type and overlook his faults. He is just a lover at heart, I guess.

73

-.:-

RE: Get Real

by KD4MXE on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I do not Beleve any one in Ham Radio Has not Heard about that, Ill Bet the fcc has Heard that to ,

RE: Get Real

by K6BBC on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I’ve been licensed since 1968 and I’ve seen these bands turn from beautiful pastures to the living hells we have today. Courtesy has been forgotten. Friendliness is rare. Ill tempers a common expression on the bands. Intelligent chat a lost art. I long for the days of a tubed-warmed shack on a cold day. Hearing CW in the novice bands. Crystal controlled transmitters. A D104. Separate transmitters and receivers. Zero-beating. A BFO. Oh, those were the days.

Dazed and confused,

K6BBC

RE: Get Real

by W6TH on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC on February 26
You must be hearing me with my E.F. Johnson Viking Chanllenger and my S40 Hallicrafters receiver on 3.870 Mhz, AM phone. Or my rice box on the CW bands, 80 & 40.

.:

RE: Get Real

by W6TH on February 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC.

Forgot to tell you that I have had my license 30 years before you received yours. My license in June 1938, during high school vacation. With the FCC for one solid minute of code and not missing one single character. Plus math and all electronic theory and drawing diagrams. Wasn't hard as I studied and learned to read and write before going for the test.

Not done with the newbees of today.

.:

RE: Get Real

by NJ0E on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC:

> I’ve been licensed since 1968 and I’ve seen these
> bands turn from beautiful pastures to the living
> hells we have today. Courtesy has been forgotten.
> Friendliness is rare. Ill tempers a common
> expression on the bands. Intelligent chat a lost
> art. I long for the days of a tubed-warmed shack
> on a cold day.

i've been licensed since 1976, so not as long as
you have been.

i've seen the *level*, or amount, of activity drop
significantly, in the segments of 80m that i use (i
operate cw 99%). that disheartens me greatly.

but the amateurs that i converse with, i find, are
as friendly as those i remember. i wish, though,
that there were some more of them!

i had a memorable rag chew last year with a fellow
whose qth sounded familiar to me. i looked through
my logbooks and found that, sure enough, i had
worked him with my homebrew, crystal controlled
novice transmitter in 1977, when i was a 16 year
old kid! (i am 42 now; he is 87). both 1977 and 2003 qso's were on 80 meter cw. to me, that was a
quintessential, 80 meter cw kind of experience.

> Hearing CW in the novice bands.
> Crystal controlled transmitters.

i operate on cw in the 80m novice band. & have
crystals for 3686.5(?) and 3725 khz, in the novice
band, which i often use. i've had delightful qso's
using both of those rocks *this* *year*.

also have a 3579.5 khz colorburst crystal, harvested
from an old tv set, and a couple others, also.

it's good fun, and quite a challenge too, to see
what i can do with a 500 mW crystal-controlled
pixie 2 transceiver on 80m. no tubes, but still
a hoot nonetheless!

i haven't encountered any racial epithets, lack of
courtesy, unfriendliness, or short tempers. none!
even during the arrl dx cw contest last weekend,
where you might expect the odd short fuse. somehow,
i sensed an order even in the pileups, where
operators would seem to pause to permit each other
put their calls out, prior to appending theirs.

but my operation *does* tend to stay south of
3750 khz, which obviously colors my impressions.

> A D104. Separate
> transmitters and receivers. Zero-beating. A BFO.
> Oh, those were the days.

you will find wonderful activity on the air today,
if you look. it is there, i know; i encounter it
often.

73 es all the best, really
scott nj0e

RE: Get Real

by W6TH on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To my friend K6BBC.

No more being mean and saying nasty words to you.This will be a talk show from now on. It is just as easy to be kind and pleasant as it is to be mean and nasty.

I now agree with you on the lack of conversation on the 75 meter phone band and the wide bandwidth that is taken with the echo chambers that are now being used.Seems I have heard that on the CB. Although what I have heard was from long skip and not in the state of California. I tune 75 phone from 4 PM until midnight.
Bringing back the good old days, well the contacts were very long and lasted several hours and were mostly tech talk. Very educational and no nonsense as today.

The equipment of today is easier to operate and small, compact and as you know and no need to explain.

On CW, it is a pleasure to make contacts and every one I have had I enjoyed and left with a kind memory.I now stay around the novice band and make not only contacts, but many friends. CW is the real ham radio and phone can be also if tried. May be phone is what brought me to CW for the past 65 years.

Going to play with my home brew vfo and the boat anchors I have and will talk to you later.

73, to my friend Tony.

W6TH

RE: Remember When?

by NN6EE on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's not a question of what it used to be but whether the Boys and Girls who are thinking about entering OUR hobby want to be perceived as ACHIEVERS!!!

I entered the HOBBY in 1962 knowing full-well the restrictions placed upon us and I did'nt hesitate to up-grade because it REALLY MEANT SOMETHING to be a Amateur Radio Operater back then. Now what do we have??? A generation that want's "SOMETHING FOR NOTHING", I say this because anyone who has gone thru the licensing process knows what I'm saying is abolutely TRUE!!!

Where do all of us draw the line as far as Amateur
Radio licensing is concernend??? And is it getting towards the point where getting a Ham ticket means NOTHING anymore???

All you guys are going to have to get thru that question and speak with a "collective mind" or else it's ADIOS Amateur Radio!!!

Food for thought!!!

EE

RE: Remember When?

by NN6EE on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

SIDE-BAR!!!

Mr. MICHAEL POWELL (FCC Chairman) is a DISGRACE to all
Users of HF radio including FEMA and HOME-LAND Security!!!

What is this Government "LACKY" thinking about???

Isn't "Homeland-Security" more frigg'n IMPORTANT then Corporate Profits???

If someone has a problem with my Patriotism then let me know because what those "MORONS" are trying to do in WASHINGTON D.C. is absolutley SHAMEFUL!!!

EE

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NN6EE

Washington knows the weakness of the American people. Want much for nothing.

Example:
Take welfare away and you lose votes. Increase welfare and double your votes.

More different languages and less communications to each and every one.

It is said to give a country languages that differ, easier to control a country as each language causes a different opinion. Fight amongst ourselves.

Money is the big issue and the White House knows it. We know it, but I quit fighting after what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, King and the others. I had that same dream

The end

- .: -

Remember When?

by KB9YKG on February 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

*yawn* Wow this horse just won't die, think of all the productive things we could be doing.

RE: Remember When?

by K6BBC on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Dear Vito, W6TH.

We may disagree on ways to make the hobby better, but we share an intense love for the hobby. I never took offense at anything you have sent my way – and I hope you understood my sense of humor as well. I do appreciate your posting and am happy to be your friend.

Best of DX om 80 CW,

Tony, K6BBC

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K6BBC

Same feelings here Tony and after all eham and qrz.com are talk programs and not ham radio. I think most are confused as to the talk shops and consider these talk shops ham radio. Much to their dismay and beliefs.

There are no closer feelings towards one and another than ham radio. Talk to you later my friend Tony.

73, Vito W6TH

-- .: ---

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Birthday: 18 Jan 1981, KB9YKG

You are so young. Guess you did not major in history.

You are the dead horse.

.:

Remember When?

by K5TED on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I remember. I remember The WRL Globe Chief 90 that used to fry coils when I tried to load my folded dipole (300 TV twinlead). I remember wondering, even then, almost 50 years ago WHY I had to learn code. I was 13, so I fugured the rest of the test was just memory work, but the code was completely pointless. Then and now. Code, which I heard the military has officially terminted, was just a fun (for some) thing to do when the bands were too noisey for AM.
Ho Hum. So, I discovered girls, forgot about being a Ham, sold my station to some 12 year old for $50, and got a Ph.D in electrical engineering.
This morning I got curious, for some reason, found this site and took the amateur EXTRA exam. I passed it. Well, I wonder if that means I have earned anything. I don't know squat about being a ham, but with about 20 minutes to brush up on code, and an hour of reading rules no one cares about, I can have an elite ticket. Whoa. The other good news? I can now afford a illegal final amplifier.

Remember When?

by K5TED on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I remember. I remember The WRL Globe Chief 90 that used to fry coils when I tried to load my folded dipole (300 TV twinlead). I remember wondering, even then, almost 50 years ago WHY I had to learn code. I was 13, so I fugured the rest of the test was just memory work, but the code was completely pointless. Then and now. Code, which I heard the military has officially terminted, was just a fun (for some) thing to do when the bands were too noisey for AM.
Ho Hum. So, I discovered girls, forgot about being a Ham, sold my station to some 12 year old for $50, and got a Ph.D in electrical engineering.
This morning I got curious, for some reason, found this site and took the amateur EXTRA exam. I passed it. Well, I wonder if that means I have earned anything. I don't know squat about being a ham, but with about 20 minutes to brush up on code, and an hour of reading rules no one cares about, I can have an elite ticket. Whoa. The other good news? I can now afford a illegal final amplifier.

Band activity???

by AH6GI on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"i've seen the *level*, or amount, of activity drop
significantly, in the segments of 80m that i use (i
operate cw 99%). that disheartens me greatly. "

That's my experience too. Several times I'm mentioned this drop off in activity and half the replies agree with me, the other half claim that I have a defective receiver or antenna or don't know when to listen or don't take the sun spot cycle into account.

So what's the story?

I believe that activity is way off compared to the 1960's and 1970's. Can anyone confirm this?

RE: Band activity???

by W6TH on February 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AH6GI Cory

Very interesting subject. The only advice I can give you in your previous post is to ask some of the few hams you find on the ham bands, or better yet ask those that are in your neighborhood. I am sure they have the answer for you.

I do not find less activity on the 40 meter cw portion of the band and the same for 20 meters, which by the way closes early in the afternoon or evening. Try taking a listen on the 27 mhz band and then compare it to the 28 mhz band and even with dx calling cq north America on the 28 mhz band, is yes, empty while the activity on 27 mhz band is overwhelmingly crowded.

I use 160 through the 10 meter band and find many more contacts than I can handle, of course this is cw I am talking about. I do not use the phone bands as I was "burnt out" (injured) in 1938 and is not my cup of tea.

To each his own. 73, W6TH

.:

Remember When?

by N4DEK on February 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I think it's a joke. I'm so tired of hearing all the old hams crying about this and crying about that. Cry me a river. Cry,Cry,Cry. Most are just afraid the new hams will come in and take some of their "24-7" Net space. Get a life old man.

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on February 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N4DEK

Go back in your cave.

Where:

You can study code for your Extra.

-

RE: Band activity???

by NJ0E on February 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AH6GI:

>> "i've seen the *level*, or amount, of activity
>> drop significantly, in the segments of 80m that
>> i use (i operate cw 99%). that disheartens me
>> greatly. "

> That's my experience too. Several times I'm
> mentioned this drop off in activity and half the
> replies agree with me, the other half claim that
> I have a defective receiver or antenna or don't
> know when to listen or don't take the sun spot
> cycle into account.

> So what's the story?

> I believe that activity is way off compared to the
> 1960's and 1970's. Can anyone confirm this?

i was referring in my original post to the 80 meter
cw segments only. looking back at my first log book
(1976-1977), when i had a homebrew transmitter for
80m and 40m cw, i see that i sometimes made morning
and afternoon qso's on 3725 khz (then the middle of
the novice band). for example, i see qso's at 12:15
pm, 3:00 pm, 11:15 am, 4:35 pm, 5:30 pm, 1 pm, and
so on.

my impression now is that, for the most part, 80m cw
has become a night time and early morning band only.
for example, this morning (early), i heard a few
5bdxcc chasers calling a guy in the marianas, a
couple japanese cw stations, and some boat anchor
enthusiasts around 3545 khz, but the cw segment of
80m was pretty much vacant otherwise. compared to
1977, where i seem to have been able to complete 80m
cw contacts at almost any time of day (on 3725;
my sole 80m crystal in those days). i suspect i
could call cq on 3725 for hours during the daytime
these days and get no takers.

i also think i can recall tuning across the general
class 80m cw band on saturday mornings in 1975 and
1976, and hearing one cw roundtable after another in
progress. my guess is that those guys were often
retired railroad or maritime telegraphers, and are
likely silent keys now.

or it could be my memory playing tricks on me.

hope this helps

73
scott nj0e

RE: Band activity???

by W6TH on February 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AH6GI: NJ0E :

Fellows, why not try the citizens band and bet you can cover every channel fully loaded.

NJ0E: Why not sked me and have a 1967- 1970 CW qso?

Whadyasa Scott? 3686, 3725, 3579.5. Name it, I'll be there. Will you?

.:

Remember When?

by K4SVE on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with you to a certain extent, Im a measly tech as you spoke of, Im 42 yrs old and the price of an HF rig is expensive to me also! I was excited while studying for my license, but after getting them and getting on the air, going to my first hamfest, etc etc, I realize it was maybe a waste of time anyway, the majority of hams Ive met so far have turned out to be a pompous stuck up type, the club in my town is so much of a clique, it breaks their face to speak to you, I even saw a fist fight at a recent hamfest in Dalton GA.....I have to tell you, after being exposed to this wonderful world of ham radio, I miss the CB coffee breaks of years gone by.......

Remember When?

by KB9ILQ on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Remember when you never heard Q signals used on VHF/UHF voice. Now days I hear it all the time including an occasional 10-4 and roger good buddy. I obtained my novice license in 1993 and I was taught never to use Q signals on voice. They're for CW only. I get frustrated when the local 2 meter repeater constantly sounds like C.B. channel 19. I have nothing against the no code tech license but it seems like people can just memorize test questions to pass the exam then get on the air without having a clear understanding about ham radio. What's going to happen to HF when the code is eleminated? Just my two cents.

RE: Remember When?

by NI0C on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KB9ILQ said: "it seems like people can just memorize test questions to pass the exam then get on the air without having a clear understanding about ham radio."

Hasn't it always been that way? For the most part, they'll learn as they go along. I for one am glad to see the local VHF/UHF repeaters being used, and I fail to see why using "Q" signals on voice is so bad. At least the folks you refer to sound eager to learn the "lingo" of ham radio. Isn't that a plus?

73 de Chuck NI0C

RE: Remember When?

by NN6EE on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KB9ILQ,

EASY TO ANSWER!!!

No code= Glorified CB!!!

I bet if everybody who went thru the licensing procedure as it is today with MEMORIZATION and the VEC program as it is, and if they were RE-TESTED to renew their licenses the vast majority of them would probably FLUNK!!!

My opinion!

Jim/nn6ee

RE: Remember When?

by NN6EE on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Addendum to my statement before anybody trys to chastise me!!!

I could easily past my Adv. test again with the tech. skills and knowledge that I had at that time which was primarily vacuum tube technology with only a smattering of solid-state theory!!!

Same Test at that time/same result now:

I'd PASS!!!

:-)))

Remember When?

by N2OIO on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This should have been done years ago..
Now we have lost potential new Hams to cellphones and internet.

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on March 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N2OIO This should have been done years ago..
Now we have lost potential new Hams to cellphones and internet.

They have and they call it the CB

Only a Technician would say this.

Go to CB where you could have what they did years ago.

Shame on you

.:

RE: Remember When?

by CBER1289 on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Long live the 11 meter band.
BS-1723

Remember When?

by WA2JJH on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The kids will miss out on what I liked when I was young.

Older Hams giving you broken stuff. Fixing it, then get on the air with it.

Yeah, I know what the new ham these days says....So what!

RE: Remember When?

by W6TH on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

--WA2JJH-------Party Time--------------

Birthday: 16 Mar 1960 Happy Birthday Michael.

----------------- :>) ----------------

.:

RE: Remember When?

by N2OIO on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

When will people give up on the "go back to CB" line..

CB has nothing to do with the needs for changing and growing amateur radio, nor did CB have anything to do with the rapid decline of interest of potential new Hams...
Please stop using CB as an excuse for everything wrong in amateur radio.

Yes I am ONLY a Technician, but I am proud of that fact.

Shame on a fellow Ham for putting me down for only being a Technician when I followed the rules studied hard and passed my tests, and my wife as well..

God bless all the new Hams as well, regardless of what "license" they choose..

RE: Remember When?

by OLDFART13 on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The myth that ham radio is dying and desperately needs more members is being perpetrated by the no-code group to try and disillusion the unknowing into believing that eliminating the code is the only way to save ham radio.

Late breaking news: Ham radio is not dying. There are more hams now then ever before. There are more Generals and Extras now then ever before. The hams that want to put forth the effort required to upgrade are doing it. They are actually rising to the challenge and not just crying that they can’t/won’t learn the code. They are not demanding that the standards be lowered so they can get on HF without showing any dedication, drive, or determination. We have the quantity; we need to keep the quality.

RE: Remember When?

by AE6IP on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I don't know if ham radio is "dying" or not, but a quick check shows that it *is* aging. And it's aging at a faster rate than the population in general, but worse, at a faster rate than the life expectancy.

If the trend continues, there will be approximately half as many hams in the US in 20 years as there are today.

RE: Remember When?

by OLDFART13 on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

IP, show your statistical proof.

RE: Remember When?

by W4LGH on March 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

===================
Yes I am ONLY a Technician, but I am proud of that fact.

Shame on a fellow Ham for putting me down for only being a Technician when I followed the rules studied hard and passed my tests, and my wife as well..

God bless all the new Hams as well, regardless of what "license" they choose..
===================
Congradulations!!!
And you should be PROUD of being a Technician! Nothing wrong with that, and I welcome you Sir into the wonderful world of Ham Radio. Now pass the word along to all of your friends and get them interested as well.
Thats how we will keep it alive and well.

And to this post, I can only say one thing....
====================
Late breaking news: Ham radio is not dying. There are more hams now then ever before. There are more Generals and Extras now then ever before. The hams that want to put forth the effort required to upgrade are doing it. They are actually rising to the challenge and not just crying that they can’t/won’t learn the code. They are not demanding that the standards be lowered so they can get on HF without showing any dedication, drive, or determination. We have the quantity; we need to keep the quality.
=====================
And that is... AMEN!

73 de W4LGH - Alan
www.w4lgh.com

Remember When?

by KD7ZRO on March 3, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No, I don't remember when, but I do remember how hard it was for me to pass the exam. I had to take it twice, I maybe only a little no-code 15 year-old tech, but I believe that I worked for what I have, and another note, I will obtain my General class, so maybe I'll see one of you guys who beleive I am here on a free ride.

Rod KD7ZRO

Remember When?

by KD7ZRO on March 3, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No, I don't remember when, but I do remember how hard it was for me to pass the exam. I had to take it twice, I maybe only a little no-code 15 year-old tech, but I believe that I worked for what I have, and another note, I will obtain my General class, so maybe I'll see one of you guys who beleive I am here on a free ride on the lower frequincies.

Rod KD7ZRO

Remember When?

by N7JCT on March 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I guess I'm too young to "remember when" because I just don't. I got my license in 1987 but I've also studied ARRL literature going back to the beginning.

My take on it is that the ARRL has done very little that was positive for the hobby since about the time I was born (1966). Yeah, I'm too young to have experienced it but I have done my homework.

I'm not sure that the "heart" of the ARRL was in the wrong place, but sometimes you have to wonder what they were thinking. I firmly believe that the ARRL and their efforts are responsible for the sorry shape that this hobby is in.

Things that should have been done differently:

1) Rather than open things wide up to increase membership and the gross number of licensed hams, they should have pushed to keep some challenge to it.

2) They should have pushed for incentive based licensing. The idea that you could get a higher class license just for bandwidth exclusive to that class was pretty stupid. Instead they should have pushed people to test and demonstrate knowledge of a particular mode or technology before being allowed to use it.

3) When computers came along they should have been working hard to promote their use in the hobby. That would have been in the 1970's. Instead they whined about CW for 30 years or more. Rather than being major part of the digital revolution, ham radio was a very minor part and became "all about" a mode that was becomming a museum piece.

4) Rather than leading the charge of whining hams when the commercial services wanted more frequencies, the ARRL should have lead a charge to advance the state of the art. Instead the commercial guys did that. Who's advancing narrowband technology and digital voice modes? It sure isn't the amateur community!

Sorry but if the ARRL wants to earn my respect, and my hard earned cash, they need to get with the times and look toward the future. Their attitude needs to be one of promoting challenge and the state of the art. It doesn't take money to change attitude.

These days getting a license is pretty much about filling out a form, forking over your lunch money and waiting a few days for your paperwork to arrive. People who come into the hobby that way don't see it as a proud, exclusive fraternity and therefore don't see the big deal in paying membership dues to some organization of old farts. If instead it WAS a challenge and kind of exclusive, if you had to demonstrate that you were worthy of admission to the fraternity, then you would have some people willing to pay dues. The would be proud to do so.

Unless the attitude of the ARRL changes then the current trend won't change. The current trend, as I see it, will result in amateur radio being absorbed into Part 95 and treated on par with those services. It's not far from it now.

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