Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

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Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

Bill (K8DXX) on March 17, 2004
View comments about this article!

Fellow Amateur,

A 26-32 MHz 1KW amp just sold on eBay. It is offered by an eBay retailer. This business carries an extensive line of mobile and fixed station amplifiers designed for 26-32 MHz operation, reportedly for sale to licensed Amateurs, only. I have sent the above URL to the FCC, asking them to investigate the legality of these amplifiers and these businesses. I urge you to check these out. If you don't detect a threat to our hobby, do nothing. If you do detect a problem, please take action by voicing your concern to the FCC at the address given earlier. Forwarding calls for investigation/action around the Amateur community might not be a bad idea, either. If you have a better suggestion for dealing with these types of problems (there are undoubtedly many similar, easily identifiable Internet businesses), let the rest of us know.

Reading the FCC Enforcement Actions archive on the ARRL website shows that the FCC has closed several of these operations down in the last year. Maybe if enough of us speak out, we'll get some appropriate investigation and enforcement action, the latter if warranted.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Bill / K8DXX

Member Comments:

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Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N5LXI on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

And we can not buy anything but an "imported" amp to boost a QRP rig. Obviously the current laws are not working and never have.

It's also time to "open" up receivers to receive cell phones. Most cell traffic is probably digital PCS by now. And if you really want to listen to cell sites you can anyway. Why force manufactuers to build a US only model? Another dumb FCC regulation that does not work.

joel / N5LXI

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC7GNM on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have reported several of those ebay sales to the FCC but I doubt that they work. I never get any feedback from the FCC.

Greg
KC7GNM

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by LNXAUTHOR on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

- as a relatively new ham i don't have a grasp on the recent history of why the FCC would ban the sale of HF amps for QRP rigs...

- i understand that you can only build one a year or buy used from another ham, but perhaps someone could chime in here with a reason why HF amps used for low-input amplification of a signal aren't allowed for sale? (they're probably OK for export from the U.S., right?)...

- tks in advance for any info... (btw, i can see the merits of an HF amp for net control, etc., but otherwise i prefer QRP, and 100W is QRO for me)...

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NJ1K on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Low input amps designed for HF use are more easily driven by the 5 watts from a CB radio... Amps requiring 50 watts or more drive won't provide adequate output when driven by 5 watts...

Another issue concerning type acceptance of amps is the keying control... Ham amps generally use an external keying circuit wired into the control circuit of the exciter... CB radios don't generally have access to the keying control circuit... I believe keying circuits that use RF sensing won't meet type acceptance....

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K0BG on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If you want to find out what some of those folks are really up to, go here and have a look: www.davemade.com

Most of what you'll see there is hogwash, but the guy openly advertizes and sells illegal amps. I've reported this to the FCC on at least 5 occasions without any comments from them.

Alan, KØBG

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I don't see how a law was broken. Selling a radio frequency amplifier to anyone is not illegal.

One who possess a radio frequency amplifier is not
a crimminal.

Use of a radio frequency amplifer where prohibited is
crimminal.

FCC regulations pertain to 'operating' not possessing or selling equipment.

Kraus

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Uh-oh. Be warned. You are about to get hammered by someone...A fellow ham...because to quote the person who hammers you:

"it's not our place to report illegal amplifier sales".

and

"we need to be concentrating on our own spectrum rather than what someone else is doing"

BTW...here's another site you missed:

www.xforceamps.com

DUCK!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Kraus, you're dead wrong. Read FCC part 2 I think it is.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You say I'm wrong but you 'think' part 2 applies.

Uncertainty on your part. Hmm....

And if cellular phone signals enter my house and home, they become my property, I shall listen to the call.

Kraus

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA9PIE on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Within the last ten days, I reported one of these eBay examples directly to Riley and he responded to me that he was taking action.

The example I reported, was the sale of an amplifier that was being sold to work in the 26-32Mhz range (and about 700 watts).

After getting the reply from Riley, the add changed and no longer had that frequency range in the add.

But hey, let's get the FCC truck to drive up to their house and load all this stuff up and haul it off - along with the paddy-wagon that carries these people off as well.

I want to see some action on this that's visible.

Mike

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE3HO on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Kraus,

Look at CFR 97-315 and 97-317 (in other words, FCC Part 97). It is a lengthy couple of sections, so I won't cut and paste the text here, but it most certainly IS illegal to sell these amps, unless they are certified for Amateur use (which is not the same as "type acceptance".

In short, any RF amplifier that can operate below 144 MHz must receive certification to be sold commercially. Period. Part of the requirements for certification are that the amplifier must require 50W drive to achieve full output (regardless of what full output is), it can have no more than 0 dB gain between 26 and 28 MHz, and a long list of other requirements.

As a licensed ham, you can build or modify only one such amplifier of a given design per year. A ham can sell one of these amplifiers to another ham in a private sale, but the above restriction keeps a ham from going into the business of making otherwise illegal amplifiers and selling them.

73 - Jim

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG4GSC on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Seems to be no enforcement....just went to one well-known site referenced above...there are PHOTOS & NAMES of folks who are running illegal amps! And the FCC can't find these guys???

And, check out this playtoy....

Quote:
"30KW 1 x 3CX15000A7ÊÊÊ 30KW {deadkey} 84KW {peak}

* Denotes needs only a five watt drive
All "M" models have a variable key
For safety do not exceed a 1.3:1 VSWR"
unquote.

Comments in {} added to define claimed output.

Bet WE get blamed when this ether-shredder gets cranked up....hmmm....this may be the REAL reason for the US power grid failure!!!

Tho it may have a use in combatting BPL.....hmmmm. "CB'er Shuts Down Internet".....I can see the headlines now.

73 de KG4GSC

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N6TGK on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Within the last ten days, I reported one of these eBay examples directly to Riley and he responded to me that he was taking action."

I've written to Riley a couple of times about the equipment that Copper Electronics sells. As of today, Copper is STILL selling these items that they claim are for export only.

RE: Love These 'Amplifier Activists'

by NE1Z on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Until the FCC deals with the daily, illegal USE of radios & amplifiers, the request to stop a few sales is trivial.

Feel really good until you turn on your radio & hear the 40 million radios & amplifiers already in use!

The FCC needs a shakeup in the most major way!

Let's send them to NTIA!

Bill

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB9YZL on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If there was any real indication that the FCC actually gave an “Obese Rodent’s Posterior” about what was happening with illegal equipment use on 11 meters, then I could get a lot more enthusiastic about all this “Report Them!” talk.

Yes…..I realize that part of our mandate is to be “self-policing”, but come on! How many times are we supposed to see serious complaints forwarded to the FCC, only to watch them drop the ball. (And in most cases, proceed to loose the ball entirely!)

As it is, the FCC seems to be following the same old CB policy of “Ignore it, and it will go away”. With the track record that has been established, why should we expend time and energy trying to get the FCC to actually read widely published advertisements? (In short, get them to do their job!)

Bottom Line: If they got serious about the problem, I would get serious about helping them!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WB2WIK on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I really couldn't care less what CBers do, but unfortunately these amps do (sometimes) end up on the ham bands where they create quite the ruckus.

Virtually every time I hear someone with a horrible sounding, distorted SSB signal on ten meters, I can confirm the problem is due to operation of one of "those" amplifiers. In all cases, his simply turning the amplifier *off* clears up the other station's signal. In some cases, the other station's signal actually gets *stronger* when the amp is shut off, leading me to wonder what frequency all the amplifier's output is really on...

Ugh.

WB2WIK/6

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N4LI on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It was stated above:

"And if cellular phone signals enter my house and home, they become my property, I shall listen to the call."

Well, good luck with that. The Congress was pretty clear when it passed that law it was serious, and there have been several prosecutions. The penalty is stiff, too.

Take a look at the operative statute, 18 USC § 2511. The penalty section is subsection (4). There may be other statutes involved, but this is the first one I came to. Here's a link for full text:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2511.html

You know, if an armoured car passes my house, and, by mistake, drops a bag of money on my property, it "become[s] my property." I shall spend the money.

That's correct, right?

Peter, N4LI

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB9WXL on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

it would be really hard to crack down on 10 meter amps , in any given area where there is a truck stop you will find a c.b. shop , most of them sell amps and work on them , you will also find many of the radio techs who do this are licensed amateurs.
and with the availability of amps online , the FCC would need alot more manpower.
simply type "c.b. amplifiers" into a search engine and see what happens. in 2-3 days you can have any amp you want.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Section 2.803(a)(1)
Section 2.1204(a)(5)
Section 2.815(c)
Section 2.815(b)

and that's just the beginning.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Here's what really happens.

The liberals of the cellular phone industry had to ensure privacy of some kind or folks wouldn't buy telephones. So now those liberals greased the liberals palm's in Washington D.C. to invent a law attempting to prohibit one listening to phone calls via scanner even in the confines of one's home.

Also regarding the amplifier issue, if you break the law using an amplifier I sell you, the liberals blame me for helping you commit a crime. You poor victim! I made you do it by providing you the means. The same actions are taken against the the gun industry.

I'm glad these tqwo examples proved to you all, the danger of the liberals. Be a free people and rid your community of the liberals.

Kraus

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This just to me.

I purchsed my TS-450S from Ham Radio Outlet when I had only a general class license. The radio could work into the extra class bands. So did Ham Radio Outlet act crimminal for selling me a radio with capabilities for which I had no license. The radio includes a 100 watt power amplifier.

Hmm....?

Kraus

RE: eBay DOES LISTEN

by VE3SY on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Here's ebay's statement on prohibited CB amps

CB amplifiers
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) does not permit the use of power amplifiers with Citizens Band radios. Therefore, eBay prohibits any listings of the following:

CB amplifiers
Amplifiers specified for use on the 11 Meter band
Amplifiers designed for use in frequencies 24 MHz to 35MHz

Amplifiers posted within the CB category
CB Radios that are amplified to exceed 4 Watts using the AM Settings or 12 Watts using the SSB settings

Further clarification can be found in the FCC rules C.F.R. Title 47 Section 2.815

Anyone spotting any of these can notify the eBay Police at http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/electronics.html The link to report the item number as at the bottom.

eBay does listen and pull clearly illegal postings.

Paul VE3SY

RE: eBay DOES LISTEN

by VE3SY on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The Link got wrapped. here it is again

Anyone spotting any of these can notify the eBay Police at

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/electronics.html

The link to report the item number as at the bottom.

eBay does listen and pull clearly illegal postings.

Paul VE3SY

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Virtually every time I hear someone with a horrible sounding, distorted SSB signal on ten meters"

You think that's bad, you should have heard it when one of the local yokels put a CB amp on 2 meters one night. I thought something had went down in the repeater!

Imagine a cat in a blender in a windstorm....

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB9YZL on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The word Liberal sure gets used a lot………….and it never seems to mean exactly the same thing with each usage.

I begin to get the impression that for most people, the definition of the word "Liberal" is; "Someone Who Disagrees With Me”.

Hey!.....I have a novel idea!......Let's try to stay on topic, and leave our shallow perceptions of other poster's politics out of the discussion.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE3HO on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Kraus,

Sorry, but you missed the point.

1) The TS-450 is FCC certified for use on tha Ham bands.

2)These illegal amplifiers are not certified. It is not a question of selling the amplifiers only to licensed hams. It is illegal to sell these amplifiers commerically to ANYONE, regardless of any license they may posses.

3) While the TS-450 has a 100W amplifier in it, there is no means for using it as a pass-through linear - i.e. connecting a CB to it and using it on the CB bands.

73 - Jim

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by IV3SBE on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's about time that USA goes into the GSM - UMTS system, no chances to evesdropping on this mode, you need too complicated and costly gizmo to listen.

As for the Ampli your are hunting ghosts, any CB'rs with a little knowledge con build his own or modify any existing HAM type.

I am getting worried that is becoming easier to buy a gun rather than a QRO item.

By the way the CB band here is dead gone many years ago, much easier to get a mobile phone and talk to your pals, even more now that we can use our Cellphones to broadcast live image in realtime while talking.

Italian FCC counterpart? non existant. Instead of making costly actions to chase 10m illegal transmission, they passed laws so that everybody will have a chance to get Cellphones and alike. ( I have 10 different models in house working on rotation and one is used to write this), results? CB band faded away.

" Have a toll fre day won't you?"

Enrico IV3SBE

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by IV3SBE on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's about time that USA goes into the GSM - UMTS system, no chances to evesdropping on this mode, you need too complicated and costly gizmo to listen.

As for the Ampli your are hunting ghosts, any CB'rs with a little knowledge con build his own or modify any existing HAM type.

I am getting worried that is becoming easier to buy a gun rather than a QRO item.

By the way the CB band here is dead gone many years ago, much easier to get a mobile phone and talk to your pals, even more now that we can use our Cellphones to broadcast live image in realtime while talking.

Italian FCC counterpart? non existant. Instead of making costly actions to chase 10m illegal transmission, they passed laws so that everybody will have a chance to get Cellphones and alike. ( I have 10 different models in house working on rotation and one is used to write this), results? CB band faded away.

" Have a toll-free day won't you?"

Enrico IV3SBE

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4ZHN on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This problem isnt confined to just truckstop junk amps either. Many of these cb landers use amateur amps driven by export 100 watt rigs or some even use smaller amps as exciters for large amps. In fact, a good many of them run stations better then our own! Its not uncommon for 1000D`s, 756 pros and the like to wind up on the chicken band. Amateur suppliers such as AES, HRO and others need to stop selling amps to anyone with money in their pockets! Of course, this is bad for buisness, where the almighty buck rules, but its too easy for "Bubba" to walk into any amateur store, plunk down his money and walk out with a brand new AL1500. Is it so hard for even a "Bubba" to clip a wire to open up the 10 mtr. tap on the tank coil? Many amateur stores used to force buyers of any equipment capabale of amplifying or transmitting to produce a valid amateur license, but due to some lawsuits, or fear of lawyers, or perhaps just for the worship of the dollar, they sell to anyone with a pulse and money. Frankly, I could care less what "Bubba" and his good buddies do on cb, as long as it stays on that band, let the FCC deal with it, they made the mess, so let them fix it.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA3RFE on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's not the responsibilty of the ham radio stores to enforce FCC regulations and there's nothing in the regulations that prohibit selling commercial gear to an unlicensed person.

And why should hams care what happens in CB or freeband? It's not our responsibility to police FCC regulations outside the ham bands as long as they stay off our bands and do not interfere with our ability to use our equipment without intereference from signals from another service.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by RADIO123US on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KA3RFE said "And why should hams care what happens in CB or freeband? It's not our responsibility to police FCC regulations outside the ham bands as long as they stay off our bands and do not interfere with our ability to use our equipment without intereference from signals from another service"

Problem is, these criminals won't stay out of the ham bands. and here's another reason why we should care...when the local CBer drives by your house running his 500 watt "LEEENYER" and wipes out TV reception for blocks, guess who gets blamed....the local ham in the neighborhood with the tri-bander....

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB1IVU on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Don't waste your time. I talked to Reilly personally twice 2 months ago, e-mailed him my complaint to E-bay and nothing happened. E-bay responded to me they would investigate the violation but did nothing, they don't enforce their own rules they post anymore. Now you can buy Galaxy export radios, Uniden HR2510 and a whole slew of illegal amps. I have drawn my own conclusions about the enforcement division of the FCC from their inaction. I won't ever beat my head against the wall on this one again. But God forbid a ham may say something offcolor on the ham bands. The FCC is right up your a**.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by SWANMAN on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Two of the biggest sellers of these 'export' amps are:
www.copper.com and www.hyelectronics.com
and they have been doing it for YEARS.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N9AVY on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

When you see illegal amps or questionalble 10 meter radios on eBay, just forward the auction to FCCINFO@fcc.gov . There have been a couple guys shut down because of this. EBay tries to catch these, but can't possibly get them all.

What self-respecting ham would want a 10 m radio with a "roger beep" and "echo" ???

Jerry N9AVY

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N6AJR on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

www.hyelectronics.com has a texas star 1600 which will do 10 -40 meters with 1k or better out for $629 plus shipping , all day every day..

I wrote riley about a place in sacrameto, ca called chickenlips cb shack and they are still there selling this crap...

So access is everywhere, it is not the machine that is the problem, If you run one of these at about half power they do pretty good, it is who is operating them..

Enforce the laws on the books, not make new laws..

If a trucker pulls into a scale and has an illegal radio or amp, impound the truck and load, and sell at auction.. I would bet this would stopp in a month. How would beacon van lines or PIE PIE explain to their customer that they lost all of their house hold items to auction or Sears that their LOAD OF PLASMA SCREEN TV'S WERE SOLD DUE TO A TRUCKER USING AN ILLEGAL RADIO OR AMP.. HHMMMMMMMM I BET SALES WOULD DRY UP.

Same for some one geting a traffic ticket, amp and no ham license..loose your car to auction.. might just work

73

tom N6AJR

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K1OU on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC4ZGP,

Who in their right mind really gives a damn about other people's cellular chatter? Must be us liberals.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC2HJN on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AJR, That's a good idea. Wonder if you'd feel the same if it was a moving truck with all your furniture in it?
(not a flame, just asking)

It will never happen. If you bust one guy, another will jump right in. Criminals are put in jail all the time, some even executed, but I don't see an end to crime anytime soon.

Maybe a kilowatt of RF directed with a beam at the offenders car would put an end to that amp? (although, he may be a bit "slower" afterwards)

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W6EZ on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have bitched to ebay about a seller, given the item number and they took the item off.
Of course, the left the other 10 auctions for exactly the same equipment by the same guy on.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W5JVQ on March 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Why would anyone want to listen to cell phone conversations?? You must have nothing to to and be a busybody to waste your time snooping on other people's "private" communications

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K8DXX on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

FYI.... I just received the following reply from FCCHAM. Please note the slightly different address they'd like information on offending auctions sent to.
-------------------------------
eBay does a pretty good job of culling out these ads and kicking them off, but they get about 3 million new items every day added to their 27 sites worldwide, and that's a lot of information to sift through considering all the different state, federal and international laws such as China, Singapore, France and Mexico to name a few. Send any future info you run across on eBay to FCCINFO@FCC.GOV, and we'll send this one there too. Thanks for your information.
-------------------------------

I think the FCC (as expressed above) is pretty reasonable. It is asking a lot of eBay to monitor thousands of items, laws, etc. So... let's make their job easier.

73

Bill / K8DXX

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KR4WM on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Kraus, you better check the rules- it is illegal
to SHIP a non-FCC-type-accepted (all CB-type)
amps in the United States. You can sell one, but
you must hand-deliver it to the buyer. That's the
law.

-KR4WM

>I don't see how a law was broken. Selling a radio >frequency amplifier to anyone is not illegal.
>
>One who possess a radio frequency amplifier is not
>a crimminal.
>
>Use of a radio frequency amplifer where prohibited is
>crimminal.
>
>FCC regulations pertain to 'operating' not possessing or >selling equipment.
>
>Kraus

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG5JJ on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I hope anyone thinking of using one of those spurious radiating, harmonic crippled CB amplifiers on the ham bands thinks twice about it.

There are reasons they are illegal...

73 KG5JJ (Mike)

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG4PFO on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well guys....I got booted from ebay because I listed a RCI 2950 (not modified), The same radio can be had at HRO....along with Magnums......Not FCC approved but they sell them.....so what makes them any different than Copper or H&Y......I pleaded my case with ebay.....and lost.
I thinks its a lost cause.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Justed checked Copper electronics site. A 600W ARE STILL SOLD. SURE COPPER WILL HAVE THE 2kw BACK IN F0R SALE. They have their cheap ham amps for 2M to look legit.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W5DXE on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The amatuer service has always been one of self monitoring. So if you see or know of someone breaking the rules report them. Can someone answer me a question please? Why and how can a company like Copper Electronics stay open? When for over 20 yrs have sold radios that are easily modified to operate illegally. Hell they even sell books & vhs tapes showing how to do it. Does someone in the FCC have a relative that works or posibly owns CE??? Food for thought.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W1GFH on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No wonder there are intruders on ten meters. Here's a place obviously catering to CBers, selling "120 channel 10 meter radios", this one comes with a channel 19 switch and linear amplifier.

http://www6.mailordercentral.com/hyelectronics/prodinfo.asp?number=S122KL40&variation=&aitem=23&mitem=23

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE2IV on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC4ZPG:

Please remind me not to hire you to defend me as my lawyer in a capital case!

Simply stated, the FCC RULES!

It has to do with Type Acceptance qualifications. You can only purvey (or use) equipment that has been Type Accepted!

Back in the late 20th Century, in order to curtail usage of then LEGAL amplfiers on the HF CB band (which by law is limited to 5 Watts input power) the FCC, under its regulatory authority, prohibited the commercial sale of power amplifiers capable of amplifying signals in the range of covering 11 and 10 meters.

They were totally within their regulatory powers to do so under the Federal Communications Act of 1934(?).

Yes, you, as an individual can BUILD an amp capable of working in the particular frequency range. And, privately, you can sell same. But you can not publicly sell for commercial gain such gear - that is what is illegal.

As to whether the FCC can (or will - or, more importantly, is staffed sufficiently to actually) enforce this situation is obviously problemattical. Suffice to say, a few years ago they DID try to police eBay. They have given up!

So go buy you 11M blaster...it's b/w you and your soul - and no one else!

Get Real

by WPE9JRL on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This 11-meter thing has been going on for decades. You couldn't stop it then and you may not be able to stop it now.

When it was my turn to find a simple, single-band mobile amplifier to juice-up my 10-watt 10-meter rig, I had to go the Black Market to find one.

The CB-ers will always have access to the amps while us poor hams have to scrounge the back alleys to find one.

The laws governing 10-meter amplification are not working.....only working AGAINST us legal hams.

Have a nice day....and don't forget to cut the Green Wire!

Pat WB9GKZ/WPE9JRL

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KE2IV

Don't commit a capital crime.

See ya'all on 14.070MHz, PSK31 this weekend. You'll
hear the loop.

Kraus

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' LAWS

Kraus

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W1NK on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

FWIW...

Paul, VE3SY is right, the eBay police are quite quick to respond to the report of an auction of an illegal amplifier.

Last night for the heck of it I did a search on eBay for "CB Amplifier" and found 2 that were clearly against eBay's policies. I reported them and today, the ads are pulled.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The FCC can spend all thier time chasing the "drug dealers" on the streets, or they can shut down the the problem at it's source.

Going after companies like Ebay, Copper electronics, truck drivers, UPS drivers, and other individuals using and selling illegal radio equipment isn't going to stop the problem from it's originating source now is it...

Until intervention resolves the problem at this level, the FCC will only continue plugging holes in the leaky dyke with thier federal fingers.

What happens when there are more holes to plug and they run out of fingers?

73

Charles - KC8VWM

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Just imagine all the $$$ the FCC could rack up in NAL's...from the latest enforcement action:

"Subsequent violations of the Communications Act and/or the Commission's Rules may subject the violator to substantial monetary forfeitures not to exceed $11,000 for each such violation or each day of a continuing violation, seizure of equipment through in rem forfeiture action, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment."

Imagine...$11,000 per violation times the number of violators. I think just by surfing the net, an FCC agent could issue about $150,000 in NALs on the first day. This is easy money for the FCC...why won't they go after it?

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by G0CJM on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Its 2004 and so far as i can remember the low input rf amps have been openly available for CB or Ham use since the early 70s. They are good and reliable and cost much less than the price some of us have to pay for an all-bander.

Reb g0cjm

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K0CWO on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I really think we need to get tough on gun control. Those bans on assault weapons really have lowered the misuse of them (or any other type of weapon for that matter). Legislation of this type and "ten meter amplifier" legislation is missing the point. Give me a break and good luck hunting nonsense.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K8NQC on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Except for neighborhood TVI complaints, I don't care much what they run on the CB band. What does bother me is the number of poor quality signals I hear on the HF bands, often from mobiles. I have checked a few of these out only to find that they are using the CB type amplifiers on ham bands without sufficient bandpass filters to keep them clean.

It is important that we hams earn the trust placed in us to control our own RF emissions by carefully checking out equipment to make sure it is clean.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AH6RR on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Just goto ebay and find the amateur amps and tell me that ebay enforces the NO CB AMPS. Only 10% are real Amateur Amps the rest are CB. Don't belive me look for yourself then count the real ones and see how many total amps are listed and it will shock you as it did me. EBAY DOES NOT ENFORCE NO CB AMPS.
All the seller needs to say is it is illegal to use on 27mhz or CB band and it is fine with Ebay. But most of them are real junk 11 meter Good Buddy Leniar ampliyfers. I have a 10-4 good buddy that lives near me who runs 3kw in his truck and tears up 24-29 mhz here so badly I can not operate them (12 and 10 meters) I have given his address, his License plate number and a full description to the FCC and guess what? He still is transmiting 3KW of splaterbox crap.
Hum!!!!!!!! Pin in coax time???? or ? any sugestions?

Roland AH6RR

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>EBAY DOES NOT ENFORCE NO CB AMPS. <<

Not that I necessarily agree with what happens with CB amps on ebay,or even truck stops for that matter - however, I would like to point out that like radar detectors in some states - CB amps are not illegal to have in your possession or even sell on an open market.

It is what the buyer does with the equipment after the sale that makes them illegal.

Truck stops are allowed to carry and legally sell these so called "10 meter ham" radios in their stores.

This equipment is not "banned" from resale. They are not selling contraband or assault weapons here.

There is no law on the books requiring stores to verify or identify who buys "Amateur Radio 10 meter radios" at these places of business.

There are no forms to fill out, no gun registration process when "galaxy" ham radios leave the shelves etc...

It is the use of the equipment after the sale that makes them illegal.

Ebay is not the FCC and does not control or enforce who uses illegal CB amps, or any other type of radio equipment sold for that matter.

Barking up the proverbial Ebay tree attempting to stop them from doing what they are legally entitled to do will only get YOU into trouble.

Ebay is not under any legal obligation to prevent these items from being sold on an open market.

Luckily, they have been sympathetic to our requests and have in some cases responded to our "moral" concerns.

73 Charles KC8VWM

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K8DXX on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Tim,

Just think about what you've said. What would ham radio, let alone society be without laws? In your opinion... who should obey which laws, if any?

Get serious.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K1OU on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'm a bit a surprised that no mention has been made about davemade. How blatant can it get? If you want to see some real garbage, go to davemade.com. Absolutely disgusting.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K9ZF on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I've found a way to fix a couple of problems at one time:

Move all of the foreign broadcasters from 40m to 11m! The broadcasters get new spectrum, with millions of receivers out there. And after awhile the cbers will give up trying to communicate over them:-))

73
Dan

Dan Evans K9ZF
444 Lynhurst St.
Scottsburg, IN 47170
{EM78}
K9ZF /R no budget Rover
ex-N9RLA
Check out the Rover Resource Page at:
http://www.qsl.net/n9rla
QRP-l #1269
Central States VHF Society
IN-Ham list administrator

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K9ZF on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I would like to see them taken off ebay. I get tired of trying to wade through all of the cb crap to see the ham amps. I would say roughly half of the amps in the hamradio/amplifiers section are cb stuff.

Thats one of the main reasons I prefer to buy/sell/trade here on eham than ebay, a much better signal to noise ratio.

73
Dan
Dan Evans K9ZF
444 Lynhurst St.
Scottsburg, IN 47170
{EM78}
K9ZF /R no budget Rover
ex-N9RLA
Check out the Rover Resource Page at:
http://www.qsl.net/n9rla
QRP-l #1269
Central States VHF Society
IN-Ham list administrator

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AA7BQ on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I love them too.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"I think just by surfing the net, an FCC agent could issue about $150,000 in NALs on the first day"

Instead of going to hamfests, why don't Riley & Co. go to some of these "Key-Downs" & actually cite some 10-70KW mobiles in person? These KD's are no secret on the web either.

The behavior is illegal & the hardware will always exist. Thinking hardware seizure will curb behavior shows a lack of law enforcement priority & focus.

When police want to curb speeding, do they seize fast cars at the dealership? No, they write tickets for speeding.

Get real

Bill

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG4PFO on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

What funny about all this is most all hams own one..........

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WB4QNG on March 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Why report them ads for the illegal amps are everywhere. I think it the FCC wanted to do something they would.
Terry
WB4QNG

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WM5Z on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It isn't just amplifiers that these guys are buying. I recently posted for sale my old FT-757 on EBay to sell it, as I just bought a new rig. There were 21 bids on the thing, and only one was from a ham that I know of. (He has his call sign as his ID). One guy even had the "balls" to ask me if the rig would operate on 27.550 Mhz as he wanted to be able to talk to his "skip" buddies. (I did politely ask him to not bid any more on the item). As you can see, these guys are willing to buy ham rigs to go with their amps.

What we, as hams need to do is to not sell to someone that blatantly lets it be known that they intend to use this equipment illegally. Not just amps, but rigs too!

Steve/WM5Z

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Wow, 600 watts out for 200 clams! 3-30 MHz. 1200W under 500bux.

I guess some buy these amps like cheap car stereo amps. The price is right! WHAT DO THESE FREEBANDERS KNOW! I GUESS the amps will be legal, When we have that new novice entry ticket!

Gee, I cannot Drive my twin 3-500Z to full power/ Those HF solid state rigs do not like tube input of the 3-500Z

Hey for $75, I can get that 150w PALOMAR. I can drive my twin 3-500Z's to 1800W (AH SHUCKS CLASS C HAS A BAD RAP)

Do you think ANY HAM has designed some bandfilters
or the in and out?

Did the FCC think that a terrorist cannoy buy these amps! WHAT A MESS

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC5NYJ on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Who cares? If they interfere, report them. Otherwise, you might as well stake out the freeway and help the state troopers catch speeders, too.

Frankly, I don't care anymore

by W4MGY on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I think it is funny as hell how we all get bent all out of shape over a bunch of CBer's running trashy KW amps all over 26-30 mHz. Riley and Co. are only doing what is neccessary to look good in the eyes of the public. Beleive it or not, it is not as easy you think to get a violation of communications law to stick in a court of law. Many times these things have been held up by going to a higher court, so an FCC inspector has got to get an iron-clad case before proceeding to prosecute. For those all hell-bent on thinking the law should be enforced to the fullest letter, think of this...Why do a lot of folks get away with things like illeagal CB radios? Because it isn't worth the trouble of busting some clown with a KW amp under his seat, buzzing down the road yakkin' away with his buddies and messing up your TV for what may be 10 seconds and he's gone. Do you really think the FCC really cares? Why did they place CB radio enforcement in the hands of local authorities...it cost the FCC too much in money and time to bust some poor ignorant redneck CBer and expect it to make much difference. If the poor slob ain't messing with vital lifesaving communications in the public safety or aircraft frequencies...why bother? Some seem to react as though selling and using some cheap trashy made CB amplifier is some really serious criminal act. Gimme a break! The average local Redneck Joe CB sales shop isn't selling neuclear bombs, or antitank weapons, or crack cocaine...he selling a poorly designed cheap amplifier. If the smuck who uses it is not inside our amateur bands, we do not have the right to go out and try to play Mr. FCC man. No, I don't condone such activity and I am not defending them. Quite simply, the users of illeagal CB amps is not something to be considered to be of an earth shattering magnetude. If his splatter from outside the amateur band plays havoc with your imported $4 kilodollar digital DX digging machine, try another radio. (Personally, I use Collins R-390's myself...those monsters are RF bullet proof.)

Those who have read my comments in the past in other threads on eHam know how hard core about ham radio I generally have presented myself. Not anymore. Somehow, I have managed to give the ham radio hobby a serious thought. Some people who populate this web site and others often heard on the air, have way too much time on their hands, and take ham radio far too seriously. With all the infighting going on in ham radio over licensing, the code, BPL, and all the other things that has devided this hobby...do you really think the FCC even gives a sh.t what we think, or care? The FCC considers the ham radio community a bunch of crybabies that does not make the FCC any money. If it was not for the free public service we offer, we would have been done away with long ago. Now to those who are in mortal fear of the future. Do you really think the ham bands are going to become another glorified CB mess if the license test is reduced to 20 questions and no code test? I doubt it, seriously. With cellphones, FRS, and the other non licensed radio systems out there, the public at large doesn't care one iota about ham radio. In a few short years, the only value an Extra license will get is a cup of coffe for a $1. 10 years ago, the FCC devalued the need for a First class licensee to be on duty at all times in a broadcast station. Now the broadcast station can be, and are, operated by a bunch of monkeys.

Listen folks, I love ham radio and I used to really care about what happens to this hobby. But, let's have a real reality check here. This is only a hobby, no matter what the blue-light orange vest ARES and RACES crowd says. It has seen it's better days and from what has gone on in the past 5 years, is there any wonder if it will survive? Maybe, 10-15 more years, if we are lucky. If the BPL racket, and the phone bands become too chaotic; as soon as I make Honor Roll, and 5-Band DXCC I probably will hang up the phones and take up model railroading. As I have said in a previous post on another thread...in 20 years, what difference is it going to make what any of us think about ham radio?

Frankly, I don't care anymore

by W4MGY on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I think it is funny as hell how we all get bent all out of shape over a bunch of CBer's running trashy KW amps all over 26-30 mHz. Riley and Co. are only doing what is neccessary to look good in the eyes of the public. Beleive it or not, it is not as easy you think to get a violation of communications law to stick in a court of law. Many times these things have been held up by going to a higher court, so an FCC inspector has got to get an iron-clad case before proceeding to prosecute. For those all hell-bent on thinking the law should be enforced to the fullest letter, think of this...Why do a lot of folks get away with things like illeagal CB radios? Because it isn't worth the trouble of busting some clown with a KW amp under his seat, buzzing down the road yakkin' away with his buddies and messing up your TV for what may be 10 seconds and he's gone. Do you really think the FCC really cares? Why did they place CB radio enforcement in the hands of local authorities...it cost the FCC too much in money and time to bust some poor ignorant redneck CBer and expect it to make much difference. If the poor slob ain't messing with vital lifesaving communications in the public safety or aircraft frequencies...why bother? Some seem to react as though selling and using some cheap trashy made CB amplifier is some really serious criminal act. Gimme a break! The average local Redneck Joe CB sales shop isn't selling neuclear bombs, or antitank weapons, or crack cocaine...he selling a poorly designed cheap amplifier. If the smuck who uses it is not inside our amateur bands, we do not have the right to go out and try to play Mr. FCC man. No, I don't condone such activity and I am not defending them. Quite simply, the users of illeagal CB amps is not something to be considered to be of an earth shattering magnetude. If his splatter from outside the amateur band plays havoc with your imported $4 kilodollar digital DX digging machine, try another radio. (Personally, I use Collins R-390's myself...those monsters are RF bullet proof.)

Those who have read my comments in the past in other threads on eHam know how hard core about ham radio I generally have presented myself. Not anymore. Somehow, I have managed to give the ham radio hobby a serious thought. Some people who populate this web site and others often heard on the air, have way too much time on their hands, and take ham radio far too seriously. With all the infighting going on in ham radio over licensing, the code, BPL, and all the other things that has devided this hobby...do you really think the FCC even gives a sh.t what we think, or care? The FCC considers the ham radio community a bunch of crybabies that does not make the FCC any money. If it was not for the free public service we offer, we would have been done away with long ago. Now to those who are in mortal fear of the future. Do you really think the ham bands are going to become another glorified CB mess if the license test is reduced to 20 questions and no code test? I doubt it, seriously. With cellphones, FRS, and the other non licensed radio systems out there, the public at large doesn't care one iota about ham radio. In a few short years, the only value an Extra license will get is a cup of coffe for a $1. 10 years ago, the FCC devalued the need for a First class licensee to be on duty at all times in a broadcast station. Now the broadcast station can be, and are, operated by a bunch of monkeys.

Listen folks, I love ham radio and I used to really care about what happens to this hobby. But, let's have a real reality check here. This is only a hobby, no matter what the blue-light orange vest ARES and RACES crowd says. It has seen it's better days and from what has gone on in the past 5 years, is there any wonder if it will survive? Maybe, 10-15 more years, if we are lucky. If the BPL racket, and the phone bands become too chaotic; as soon as I make Honor Roll, and 5-Band DXCC I probably will hang up the phones and take up model railroading. As I have said in a previous post on another thread...in 20 years, what difference is it going to make what any of us think about ham radio?

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I JUST SAW THE SLEAZEST LOOP HOLE FOR 10M AMPS!

This company are selling 250W amplifiers as CW TRANSCEIVERS!!!!!!

Yup, you buy the 250W amplifier, a little 3W 1 frequency exiter comes with it!!!!

You specify the frequency of the XTAL at purchase!
Ya know that they call it......250W QRP CW transmitters!
Do not worry, the XTALS are in the CW portion of the 10M band! I guess the FCC could really nail them if the sold you a 10M FM XTAL!

other excuses...for laboritory use only. Not to be used with antenna! Dummy load output only! I know there are medical diathermy frequencies between 10 and 11 meters. Maybe they sell many to sports rehab clinics!

The implication is as long as the sigal is not going on air, it is A-OK TO use these potent RF Amps.

OK let me ask this legal loop hole question.
I have a Heathkit SB-221. It presents a very high SWR to my solid state rigs on 80,40 and 15M. Yes, I know I can put in differnet coils and caps for my solid state rigs. However, I use a tube rig too.

How about this. I use one of these 3-30 MHZ amps for matching and not amplifying...really?

Since these Marvel AMPS only need 5Watts for 250W out. I drive the amp with 2 watts. All my solid state rigs are cleaner at 5-10 watts.

I will re-bias the transistors in the cheapo amp to class A. At class A the AMP will ouput 100W accross a 100W light bulb!

The input of my 2KW amp is in parallel with the 100W light bulb(or 100W resistive load). By doing this the output of the illegal amp never gets on the air.
I NO LONGER HAVE TO USE THE INPUT COILS OF MY DUAL 3-500z AMP.

to get the 2KW amp to legal limit, I bias the CHEAPO amp to class AB!

I know have a more broadband dual 3-500W amp. None of the RF from the cheap 250W amp never radiated outside the case. IS THIS LEGAL!!!!

That is the only legit use for a under $200 amp, I am just guessing and kiding!

73 MIKE

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K8DXX

Hello.

If we humans simply were nice to each other, did the right things, weren't greedy, etc. we wouldn't 'need' laws. But we humans by nature are putzes so we need laws. Follow? Gentlemen's aggreements could fill for the rest.

I wish we didn't need laws.

Kraus

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N0UVV on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

YOU KNOW THE PROBLEM WITH HAM RADIO NOWADAYS AND THE REASON THAT IT IS A DYING HOBBY IS PEOPLE ARE SO CONCERNED WITH WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING AND THEY SPEND SO MUCH TIME PICKING ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO AND THEY ARE LIKE THE LITTLE BOY IN THE SCHOOLYARD THAT IS ALWAYS TELLING ON THAT EVERYONE IS DOING THEY NEVER GET TIME TO ENJOY THE HOBBY THEY WANT TO BE THE FCC'S PET OR SOMETHING IT REALLY AMUSES ME HOW MUCH ENERGY THEY SPEND TO TELL ON SOMEONE, WHO CARES IF CB ER'S USE AMPS DOES IT REALLY EFFECT YOU OR DO YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A PURPOSE TO WHINE ABOUT SOMETHING.. IT MAKES NO SENSE, WE HAVE ALOT OF WHINERS IN OUR AREA ALSO EVERYTHING FROM HOW MUCH WE TALK ON THE REPEATERS TO HOW MANY TIMES OUR PACKET BEACONS GO OFF, JUST LOOKING FOR A REASON TO WHINE... IT IS SO FUNNY..

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>When police want to curb speeding, do they seize fast cars at the dealership? No, they write tickets for speeding. <<<

And they are enforcing laws that are clearly defined, with clearly posted signs, on clearly marked roads.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K3WACKY on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey SWANMAN......thanks for the link to H & Y. I couldn't find the site when I searched in Google so I could buy some more stuff from them. (ha ha)

I don't know why everyone is so upset about the amps. When the guys using them on CB blow them up because they don't know much about matching them to an antenna, I can get some nice parts for building my 6 meter amp! Ever try finding a broadband RF transformer for cheap? Or a cheap case for a project? Besides, I live 10 miles away from the interstate and the splatter from 11 meters doesn't hurt me on 6 meters, so I don't care.

If your neighbor is getting TVI, just point to the CB antenna down the street! Think of it! You point out the cause of the TVI and you make ham radio look good! Only difference is that you are licensed to cause TVI!!

If I were the people in this thread, I'd be more concerned with bored Hams with licenses that are jamming on 80 meters or BPL than a few people on the interstate with amps!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>Only difference is that you are licensed to cause TVI!! <<<

Huh?

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"And they are enforcing laws that are clearly defined, with clearly posted signs, on clearly marked roads"

Your point is?

Bill

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG7RS on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Bill K8DXX, I appreciate your frustration, but my concern is whether our laws prohibiting commercial availability of low-power HF amplifiers for legitimate and responsible amateur use are in our best interest. The frustration is watching these companies that produce poorly-designed amps marketed specifically for CB use blatently "get away with it". They are obviously illegal in the States, yet these companies make little effort to disguise their sale on the internet or in local CB shops. If you want one, they are readily available just like any other piece of radio gear. Fortunately, their use seems to be limited to 27mhz at this time.

A bigger concern to me is the potential use of these poorly designed amps on the amateur bands by well-meaning licensed amateurs intending to boost the output of their QRP rigs. QRP is a wonderful aspect of our hobby. In the last 10 years or so, QRP has grown exponentially, as clearly demonstrated by the mainstream manufacturers of amateur equipment offering some top-notch and highly complex rigs such as the Yaesu FT-817 and Elecraft K2, along with a host of QRP and portable related antennas and accessories. In times of sunspot lows, these rigs lose their effectiveness and it's only natural for hams to desire the ability to boost their power for more routine communication.

Because of our laws prohibiting the commercial sale of ANY relatively low power amplifiers which operate in the 3-30mhz range, the only thing that is available for legitimate amateur useage is either homebrewed (the best current alternative) or these poorly-designed "CB" amps. Since these amps typically produce dirty, distorted output and employ no lowpass filtering whatsoever, it would not be acceptable to use them on our amateur bands without considerable rework or at the very least, the use of suitable lowpass filtering with a proper cutoff frequency for each band of operation.

If our laws concerning these amps are eliminated, would the major manufacturers of amateur equipment jump at the opportunity to design and market quality, well designed lower power amps suitable for use with their QRP rigs? Wouldn't this scenario also essentially eliminate the potential to operate poor quality "CB" amps on our bands? I for one believe the answer is "YES" in both cases. I would very much like to hear the opinions of my fellow hams on this idea.

Personally, I enjoy QRP more than any other facet of our hobby. I'm realistic though, and realize there are many times when QRP is not appropriate. On the other hand, I've personally never felt the need to run more than a couple of hundred watts. I've spent considerable time studying, experimenting with and building small linear amplifiers in the 50-200 watt range for use with my QRP rigs.

Recently I discovered a small amplifier manufactured by an Italian company called RM, marketed by a prominent Canadian distributor of amateur radio equipment. This amplifier is a typical 150-watt out for 5-watts input affair, with an RF-sensing T/R relay, powered by 12VDC. The similarity to a CB-kicker ends at this point though. The amp has a PIC-based microprocessor that senses the operating frequency and instantly selects one of six available lowpass filters. Or, you may select them manually with a front-panel switch. The design is solid, construction is to commercial standards and performance is excellent. This product is obviously marketed to amateurs. I purchased one from the Canadian distributor without concern or problems. Obviously, this distributor is reputable and has no concerns offering them for sale to US-license amateurs. Is this legal? If it is not legal, why not?

I hope to see further discussion on this perspective of the subject article. It would be helpful to the QRP community and maybe put into perspective the need for such laws to prohibit irresponsible use of such devices while at the same time prohibiting responsible use of them as well.

73 to all,
John, KG7RS

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well Bill,

My point is that the police has already well established laws and clearly defined traffic signs posted on the roadways.

This enables the task of providing motorists speeding tickets in an easy and predefined manner when someone is speeding.

The trouble with amps sold on ebay is what we might define as illegal?

Selling them? or using them?

Makes the job of writing "tickets" a little more difficult in the eyes of the law.

You can't write tickets for "immorally" selling CB amps on ebay. However, you can when they are used on the air illegally.

We have to ask not "if" CB amps are illegal, but "when" they are illegal.

73

Charles - KC8VWM

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N8MMZ on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC4GZP:

Kraus - I wouldn't make any claims (or suggest that the signals were your property while they were in your home) to listening to cell phone conversations, or other private telephone conversations. If you were to take such action as listening in, recording, or whatever - you would be in violation of Part 2, Section F, paragraph 2.701a, "Prohibition against use of a radio device for eavesdropping".

You would also be subject to the revocation of your ticket - and I'm not sure if they still do this, but Mr. Riley could show up at your door with Uncle Knuckles and his sledge hammer for all of your radio equipment (except part 15 equipment, unless you used it for eavesdropping).

Sorry buddy! That's the brakes.

73s de N8MMZ
-Jonathan

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N8MMZ on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Addendum to my last post -
Kraus:

The paragraph 2.701a was adopted Mar. 4, 1966. I don't think cell phones had really made it on the scene by then.

-Jonathan

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>frustration is watching these companies that produce poorly-designed amps marketed specifically for CB use blatently "get away with it". They are obviously illegal in the States<<<

Define "illegal" per se.

If that was the case, then Coppers electronics,Ebay, truck stops and everyone else that ever sold or produced these amps and radio equipment would have been shut down or be in jail already.

Businesses selling this so called "contraband" would surely would have lost their permit to operate a business issued by the city they operate in.

So why are they still in business?

The reason they are still in business, is because they operate within the thin line of the law. They are not "using" the equipment contrary to FCC rules.

They are only "selling" the equipment according to fair retail trade laws. This is in accordance to the law. So is it illegal?

The scope of FCC rules pertain to "using" this equipment. The FCC does not enforce laws as they pertain to fair selling practices under the scope of the federal trade commission.

These places sell this equipment as "Amateur", similar to the homebrew transmitters you might build yourself. Therefore they dont require FCC approval numbers on the equipment sold. CB's with a gazillion channels are sold in truck stops as "Amateur Radio" equipment, not as CB's...

This is apparent even though the "marketing" suggests it is "CB" radio equipment targeted at freebanders. Boxes are clearly marked as "Amateur Radio" equipment thus meeting all the requirements under the law.

Truck stops don't have any obligation under the law to verify the purchasers of such "amateur" equipment.

None of us would be allowed to build our own transmitter equipment if FCC approval numbers were required on all radio equipment in each and every case. Also, you would not be permitted to resell that QRP rig at the hamfest if it required mandatory FCC approval information recorded on it.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter activists'

by NE1Z on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Makes the job of writing "tickets" a little more difficult in the eyes of the law.
You can't write tickets for "immorally" selling CB amps on ebay. However, you can when they are used on the air illegally."

You answered your own question.

If you use stuff illegally, such as freebanding, you lose your stuff regardless & a fine can be levied, at the descretion. That is the way the law was written. That is the the way the law should be enforced.

Everywhere, everyday, in the USA, there are millions laughing at the situation while keying down! No one is stopping them & they know no one will.

I honestly can care less what anyone owns or sells but if they don't behave using it, they don't belong having anything that transmits.

Bill

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA5ROW on March 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I thank ham amplifiers should have 10 and 12 meters. It has been 26 years sense the ban on 10 meters took place. CB is basically dead now the CB boom is long gone. What the FCC should have done is move the CB band to VHF and gave back 11 meters to ham radio.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA4RKT on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yea folks do report them. I just bought a nice Mirage 2 meter amp that was *clearly listed* as a VHF amp, freq range of 144 to 148 right in the listing. The seller kept posting it for sale, and Ebay kept terminating the listing because it violated their policy for selling CB amps.

But yet.....

I could go there now and load up on Texas Stars and any other gear I wanted.

Go figure.

Reporting it to Ebay does not always get desired results, they are not technical folks, if enough people raised a stink, they would most likely ban *ALL* rf amps since it would be much easier to do than wading through several hundred thousand new listings per day.

*Several folks in the past have actually gotten personal replies from Ebay stating that they would indeed have to ban ALL RF AMPS if enough folks raised enough heck.*

Is someone forcing any of you folks to look at the listings or to buy the gear? I didn't think so. Do you know if that used Icom 706 was used by a CBer? Do you know if will be sold to "one of THEM." Is it your personal business - if the item in question is not yours that you are selling/buyin?

Yes, I know ham rigs and amps are not legal for use on the CB band in the US. Yes I know most "10 Meter Amps" and "10 meter CW tranceivers" are indeed sold for that use.

Does anyone here in the US remember the TV show "Bewitched"? Remember Mrs Kravitz next door that was always looking out the window with binoculars to see what the neighbors were doing so she could report it?
Is it just me, or do all the folks fussing about the CB gear on ebay sound sort of like that?

There is always all the the other auction and classified sites.

Tom KA4RKT
"Know Code General"
(passed Extra test today, though!)

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by ANONIMOUS on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You guys need more cheese with your whine!!!!!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter activists'

by KC8VWM on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>but if they don't behave using it, they don't belong having anything that transmits. <<<

I agree Bill, good comments.

73

Charles - KC8VWM

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8VWM on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>What the FCC should have done is move the CB band to VHF and gave back 11 meters to ham radio. <<<

They should at the very least share the band we gave up to them.

Licensed Amateurs should be given primary status on 11 meters, and unlicensed CB'ers should be given secondary status on 11 meters. In effect a shared communications band.

Perhaps, if they implemented this as such, 11 meters might be a better place because of our involvement.

After all, 11 meters used to be a ham band. Why not allow hams to use it today as they once did? They have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Not all hams like 11 meters, but perhaps if other hams operated this segment - then CB'ers might take note and clean up their act.

Thoughts?

73

Charles - KC8VWM

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NX5W on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

E-bay Auction #3084690695 "Completed"
"Ham Amplifier and Antenna Switch"
Description: 150 Watt Mobile 12 Volt 10 & 11 Meter Amplifier.
Seller ID, skeety7920m
This was reported to E-Bay as an illegal amplifier. Obiviuosly they took no action at all.
73, NX5W

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Ebay stating that they would indeed have to ban ALL RF AMPS if enough folks raised enough heck."

Great! So the whole radio world must be brought a halt & held hostage because of the misguided feelings of accomplishment by a select few in getting items pulled off?

Sounds like instant ham gratification alright, the circular firing squad as always.

Ebay is just 1 of 1000's of places to get amps online alone. Good luck on denting the armor freebanders have built up knowing no one will come knocking when they are on air!

Bill

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K1OU on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC8VWM,

While I enjoy reading what you have to say, I beg to differ. Our involvement on 11 meters will do nothing more than stir further acrimony. People change only change when they feel the need to change. On the other hand, I can see where you have hope in the fact that some freebanders will actually get a license. I'm sure a few of us know some ops who have come over to the legal side and are good ops. People find their own path.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Define "illegal" per se. (My definition: either violating FCC rules or violating local, state, or federal statutes.)

If that was the case, then Coppers electronics,Ebay, truck stops and everyone else that ever sold or produced these amps and radio equipment would have been shut down or be in jail already. (If you go by the FCC rules, they should have been fined out of existence a long time ago.)

Businesses selling this so called "contraband" would surely would have lost their permit to operate a business issued by the city they operate in. (Can't argue there!!)

So why are they still in business? (Good question, I'd like to know the answers too.)

The reason they are still in business, is because they operate within the thin line of the law. They are not "using" the equipment contrary to FCC rules. (Wrong. Read your FCC rules. Part 2. They are manufacturing selling and marketing non certificated radio transmitters which is a no-no under Part 2.)

They are only "selling" the equipment according to fair retail trade laws. This is in accordance to the law. So is it illegal? (If you define illegal as in contravention to FCC rules, then yep, it is.)

The scope of FCC rules pertain to "using" this equipment. The FCC does not enforce laws as they pertain to fair selling practices under the scope of the federal trade commission. (Wrong. FCC has the authority to regulate the manufacture, selling, and distribution of *any* communications device within its' purview. And the definition of communications device is pretty broad.)

These places sell this equipment as "Amateur", similar to the homebrew transmitters you might build yourself. Therefore they dont require FCC approval numbers on the equipment sold. CB's with a gazillion channels are sold in truck stops as "Amateur Radio" equipment, not as CB's... (Wrong. Read the recent Palco Electronics citation. The FCC can now decide what is classified as "Amateur" and what is not. The FCC has decided that CB's with a gazillion channels are not "Amateur" therefore the exemption doesn't apply.)

This is apparent even though the "marketing" suggests it is "CB" radio equipment targeted at freebanders. Boxes are clearly marked as "Amateur Radio" equipment thus meeting all the requirements under the law. (Wrong. See above.)

Truck stops don't have any obligation under the law to verify the purchasers of such "amateur" equipment. (You are absolutely right.)

None of us would be allowed to build our own transmitter equipment if FCC approval numbers were required on all radio equipment in each and every case. Also, you would not be permitted to resell that QRP rig at the hamfest if it required mandatory FCC approval information recorded on it. (Yes we would, because it would be made by hams and used by hams within the ham bands.)

That being said...if we were all more knowledgeable about what is and isn't permissible, maybe we would get more results from our efforts. There's a ton of misinformation out there.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG4APJ on March 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

My Friend, You need to do some reading of the FCC Rules and Regs.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA9SVD on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

by KC4ZGP on March 17, 2004
Mail this to a friend!

I don't see how a law was broken. Selling a radio frequency amplifier to anyone is not illegal.

One who possess a radio frequency amplifier is not
a crimminal.

Use of a radio frequency amplifer where prohibited is
crimminal.

FCC regulations pertain to 'operating' not possessing or selling equipment.

Kraus
=====================================

Actually, even posession of such an amp (driven by low power between 24 and 35 MHz) by other than an Amateur (or other "properly licensed person" or a dealer IS considered against the FCC rules. Sale of the equipment is covered under Part §47.2.815, and Amateur Rules Part §97.315

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC8VWM, certainly has a novel and interesting idea.
Giving Hams the use of 11M and 10.5 meters(freeband)
The problem I see is that CBers would start to rip off our ham calls.

Perhaps the nocode novice be given 27.5-27.995 voice privs. they would be the secondary user to any other legit service. perhaps a 100W limit would be prudent.

The nocode Novice will have full 10M privs.

The illegal amp business is not a ham issue.

The FCC should allow hams to get data legally.
Such as infiltrating KEYDOWNS. Getting field strength readings from trucks.
A photo of the truck with the field stregth reading can be taken. That is all hams can do.

Everytime a CB signal comes though my stereo, I break out my DV cam. I am never fast enough to zoom in on the plate number.

As long as the illegals do not interfere with me, it is not my business.
While the fantacy of putting a pin through a coax is funny, it is a feloney.

It would be funny to put a few 100W light bulbs across an illegals coax too. It would not be too hard for the FCC to find them at night!

Again it is not a ham problem.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE2IV on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey Kraus (KC4ZGP):

Oh I love you man.

You prove the handle thesis.

You see, Maine is the handle. The Mid-Atlantic States are the throne seat.

And guess where the bowl is? Yes! 4-land. Where it all gets dumped into and flushed.

You don't know the difference b/w rigs and amps (much less issues such as type acceptance) and you spout off in all your glory! Fortunately, the only folks who will know how ignorant (and perhaps, stupid) you really are is you, me and the rest of the clowns on this website.

But really, Kraus, you are wonderful. You are a fine example of the best in ham radio as we know it today.

Heck, I'll bet you are pro-code too!

Go get 'em Kraus. With you on our side we are surely doomed!

KE2IV

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4KVW on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have been a HAM now for 10 years and have "NOT"heard any CB operators splattering over through the 6 or 2 meter band here.I live in a rural area where just about EVERY pickup and lots of cars have CB's in them and I am sure most are running amps but not even one has bothered my Icom-746 or my Big screen TV.It is NOT legal but NOTHING will be done about it just like the HAMS running way ABOVE legal limit on the HAM bands.You can even find DOZENS of 2 meter HAM radios in most of the pickup trucks which are being used just outside the 2 meter band for hunting clubs. They are using the tone boards so they get PRIVACY on them as well as several who are using 2 meter HT's.Very hard to trace them in use but VERY EASY to see them mounted under the dash boards.Not enough hours in a day or money in the pot,or man power to even SCRATCH the surface. More important things to spend our tax dollars on that COULD mean LIFE or DEATH!So get over it and enjoy life before it has passed you by. Stress will KILL you and you are stressing over something you have "NO" control over! 73's & God bless,ClaytonKE4KVW

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N4SNL on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

TO NOUVV, The only people who respond like you did to this forum, are the people who have and operate this type of equipment and give false callsigns as well. Go somewhere else and complain to people who feel like you do not to those of us who don't!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N4LI on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>>What the FCC should have done is move the CB band to VHF and gave back 11 meters to ham radio. <<<

---

I agree…

The concept of a “Citizens’ Band” is a good one. There are certain stakeholders in society who can benefit from a cheap, easy and reliable radio band usable for business or personal use. Prior to the CB boom of the late 1970s, the 11-meter CB Band pretty much filled the bill.

The idea of having such a citizens’ band on HF is now silly. While VHF was pretty exotic when CB was allocated in the 50s, it makes much more sense now – antennas are easy to deal with and the ionosphere isn’t an issue. And, let’s fact it – running 500w on VHF is not going to get you across the country, unless something really odd is going on.

Arguably, the FCC agrees. But, sadly, we have developed such a patchwork of CB-like services that staking out a new one seems less than practicable. Family Radio Service has been tremendously popular; you can buy radios for not much more than $20 at Wal~Mart or Target. But, FRS is only ½ watt, and separate high-gain antennas are prohibited. MURS, on VHF, is also short range low-power, and really doesn’t fit the bill for a wider area service necessary for a citizens’ band.

GMRS is the closest thing to a true citzens’ band. Higher power is allowed – up to 50w. Heck, there are even repeaters. But, clearly, GMRS is not intended to be the easy on-ramp to personal communications that CB was intended to be. First, a license is required, and they are a bit pricey at $75 for a 5-year term. Equipment is still a bit expensive for the average user. Further, rules are still written to require a higher level of sophistication than one can expect from most CB users. Naming one’s self “Teddy Bear” and keepin’ the hammer down on the Superslab just ain’t gonna cut it.

It’s a shame. Had the FCC allocated a couple of dozen channels for narrow FM on VHF or UHF, they could eventually phase the 11-meter CB band out. I can imagine high utility for a channelized band with – say – 10w max output and no license requirement. There would, of course, be antenna restrictions, etc. But, with the confused state of CB-like bands, I doubt anything like this will ever happen.

Peter, N4LI

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KD4FUN on March 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Was booted off of Ebay because I listed my Uniden HR2510 Transciever for sale on Ebay. I bought this radio from an Amateur dealer, it has never been modified and works only on 10 meters. I believe the whole Ebay group is a little daffy in the cranium!!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KG4PFO on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Someone reported it as a illegal radio, the same thing happened to me with a RCI 2950......The thing is, they are not FCC approved, yes HRO sells them too....I tried to state a case with ebay....and of coarse, they wouldnt hear of it, the sad part is....it is hams reporting them, kinda a cut throat thing.
Report the amps/radio's....but the reporter owns 3 of them.
Personally......I think its a crock !

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N2MG on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Got into this late, and read as much as I could, but forgive me if any of this has been mentioned...

1) Regardless of the FCC regulations, or our "duty" to report violations, blah, blah, eBay has a POLICY on page

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/electronics.html

where it says:

"CB amplifiers
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) does not permit the use of power amplifiers with Citizens Band radios. Therefore, eBay prohibits any listings of the following:

CB amplifiers
Amplifiers specified for use on the 11 Meter band
Amplifiers designed for use in frequencies 24 MHz to 35MHz
Amplifiers posted within the CB category
CB Radios that are amplified to exceed 4 Watts using the AM Settings or 12 Watts using the SSB settings
Further clarification can be found in the FCC rules C.F.R. Title 47 Section 2.815
"

I've found that if I report an amp found in eBay's CB section, the amp generally gets pulled (I've checked up on a few that I had reported and they had disappeared). However, if that same amp is placed in the Ham section, it seems to be left alone. Too bad.

You need to be a registered user on eBay which requires nothing more than a valid, non-free (i.e., non-hotmail, non-yahoo) email address in order to report violations.

I also send a form email to fccinfo@fcc.gov with the eBay auction numbers for the hell of it. I get back automated responses. Not sure what, if anything, they do.

Maybe I'm tilting at windmills, but if anyone wants to know more, just ask me!

Mike N2MG
webmaster@eham.net

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

<<<<Maybe I'm tilting at windmills>>>> Never heard that expression!

Seriously, If I were to go to one of those KEYDOWN parties. Am I allowed to collect names and addresses.
Of course i know I cannot KEYDOWN. I would enter with a FT-100D tuned to 11M.

What data can I get on people, worthout breaking any privicy laws?

We had one guy in a similar EHAM section, bragging how he was going to be at an annual KEYDOWN/KEG party.
Bragging that the biggest entry was 17KW!!!!????

It should be interesting to see a bunch of drunken outlaws, playing with fire(ultra power amps)

Can an individual get friendly, take photo's of plates and faces. The KEYDOWNS are advertised somewhere.

I just do not want to break privacy laws to get INTEL.

What say you MIKE _MIKE WA2JH

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hmmm...interesting.

Mike, you couldn't catch me at one of those parties without an anti-rad suit. I've seen videos on the internet where a camcorder couldn't get within 30 feet of the vehicle without getting wiped out with RFI.

Of course, there is the matter of those pesky radiation exposure limits the FCC has us sign a declaration for...

Now if we could just start a rumor...something to the effect that over 100 watts on 27 Mhz fed into a whip antenna would cause impotence...

I just wonder sometimes...when we hear numbers like 17kW...is that like the CB amps rated for 1000W with 12 gauge power leads? Maybe they measure it on a "Dosy CB test station"? If they are outputting 17 kW, assuming 50% efficiency..that means they must input at least 34 KW. P = I x E which means the current is 2833 Amps @ 12 V. Do I really believe that?

Nope.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KE4MOB, I agree 17Kw sounds impossible, the low life was just goating us! The only tubes that output that kind of power, I used when I worked in TV.
Even then our peak visual power(at 7.5IRE black) was 16KW. Most VHF TV stations that still use tubes run the RCA special VHF tubes from 10-50KW.

These tubes would never run on HF!(HI-HI)

They turkey was using a CB handle and said, i will be at the KEYDOWN.

You bring up a point I should have remembered. The servo's in our broadcast camera could be thrown of with an old 5W Motorola MX.

So a film camera would be the only way to go.

Ther suite you do not need. E=KF. Energy=planks constant X frequency. RF is non ionising.
You have to get to super short wavelengths like 200nanameters before the radiation becoes ionising.
So even at 17KW, no rad. suite needed. Hi-HI.
It would br cool to infiltrate. Then sell aluminum foil hats to ward of the RF radiation!

I could not believe the way this guy was bragging.
I guess KEYDOWNS are a regualr thing?

The probably get there hands on some HENRY EXPORT AMPS. 4KW out. They might know how to build a power phase combiner. Combine 4 amplifiers for that 17KW
output! I REALLY DOUBT, THEY GOT IT TPGETHER!

73 MIKE

200NM is Ultra violate

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KE4MOB,IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO GO!
Look for ham rigs, write down the seriel numbers, then I turn the seriel nubers into my FED friend.

Maybe some hams will get their stolen rigs back!!!!!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE6PKJ on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>200NM is Ultra violate<<

Actually 17KW at 11 meters is ultra violate.... as in ultra violates the law.

200 nM is ultra violet c band.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter activists'

by AE6IP on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> Everywhere, everyday, in the USA, there are millions
> laughing at the situation while keying down! No one
> is stopping them & they know no one will.

The best estimates available indicate that there are between 100 and 200 thousand CB users left in the US, of whom probably 99% operate perfectly legally.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey Marty, How ya doing man! Your so right, I should not care. i should just do a J-K flip flop back to my original position. It is not a ham issue, I should not care!

I wil stop working. Drop out of school and join a Street Gang!

I can spend my days throwing rocks at commutter trains! Then we can hold up a music store.
I can finally have that pre-CBS STRAT!

Besides copper, Texas star, and other amp companies are American companies!

I just though it would be fun to see what happens at a KEYDOWN. Is there a bonding experience like Woodstock?

Are there rules? If you produce under 100W, you get
banned from the next KEYDOWN. Is the FCC foolish enough not to send anybody

Does the KEYDOWN commite do a safty check. Like find out if they are not keying down on a blasting site? Is RF Burns the host again this year.
Are keydowners in large antisemetic?
Is there a union to join?
Will there be enough portosans...Big problem at wood stock!

If a baby is born, are their names like MIDLAND!

Do kids get in for free? They should!

Bet for some cosmic reason, the food is better than
hamfest's!!!!!!!

Are copies of the ARRL hand book burned!

Will they make a holy sacrifice of an ICOM 7800. Key it into a short circuit!

What are the effects of tens of thousands of watts. Who cares!

Is the event sponsered by COPPER ELECTRONICS..IT SHOULD BE!

yOUR SO RIGHT, I was taken it too seriously. I do have a life!

Is there going to be a KEYDOWN for Jello Biafra?

Will Michael Jackson show up? He should.

Do ARRL staffers get free tickets? I mean like ED would have a field day!

Will there be an expose by Mike Wallace from 60 minutes, that the asverage illegas amp is just as clean
as a yeasu FT-1000D. That would be a scandel!

I no longer care MIKE 73

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AD5KL on March 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hmm, so the "liberals" passed the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 did they? Check me if I'm wrong but Reagan was president in '86. Last time I checked he wasn't a liberal.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by N2MG on March 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AD5KL wrote:
<<
Hmm, so the "liberals" passed the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 did they? Check me if I'm wrong but Reagan was president in '86. Last time I checked he wasn't a liberal.
>>

Well, Presidents don't pass laws, Congress does. But I digress.

IMO, anyone who feels a law like that is effective, needed or otherwise justified, doesn't belong representing "the people". On the other hand, maybe Washington's the perfect place for them. ;-)

Mike N2MG

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"The best estimates available indicate that there are between 100 and 200 thousand CB users left in the US, of whom probably 99% operate perfectly legally."

So what you are saying is in a country of ~300,000,000, there are less than half as many CBers than there are licensed hams?

It is a nice fantasy but I don't think so, based on numbers of trucks alone & operations observed.

Bill

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

A political joke.

If you want a friend in Washington.........GET A DOG!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K2LES on March 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Man you guys need to get a grip. Riley Holingsworth is only one person. He doesn't have the time or resources to go after every little thing that you guys throw at him. Go out and do something more worthwhile with your lives - like losing 200 lbs, finding a girlfriend and moving out of your parent's basement. Sheesh.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Why does everybody blame everything on "LIBERALS"?!

You would think you would find more screw-ups with the Marajuana Refrom Party!

If the NRA and the Marajuana Reform Party merged, that would be a party more dangerous than the LIBERALS ever could HOPE TO be!!(HI-HI)

The polar opposite to the LIBERALS are your ultra right wing conservatives.

You tell the conservative that the FCC finds these AMPS a danger to existing telecommunications. You tell them these AMPS are just a way for hippies and drug dealers to beat Cell Phone companies. ENOUGH SAID!!!!!

I do not like right wing conservative extremist either!

They were all for segregation in the early 60's.
They had their share of screw ups too!

Now here is a hard one. Expalin to the average person that illegal CB amps are some type of pollution. The liberals will have Violent riots in front of Copper electronics with in days!!!!
Notice I said Violent riots. Liberals do fight and go more wild in a riot situation!!!!

Tell the liberal ,ILLEGAL CB AMPS are the FCC's way to prevent poor people from having a cheap alternative to cell phones. They also allow for cheap world wide communication. Truckers use them as free cell phone alternative. They just require a $400 metal box to make it work better. The FCC does not like them.

Also the legal way requires testing ,being registered with a GVT agencie. Also there is suppression of freedom of speech. YOU CANNOT CURSE!!!

The liberals will have a violent riot in front of the FCC. They will yell U.S. unfair to those that want cheap communications and avoid expensive cell phones!
UNFAIR UNFAIR, WE WANT TO BE ON THE AIR!(A PICKET SIGN SAYS)

What is the point of this piece of literary trash, you may ask!

Easy, this also shows how easy it is for our elected officails to lie to us. This shows that the ignorant and the very rich have the power!

You can spin this 10M AMP problem into a free speech issue!

IF YOU WERE NOT INTO HAM OR CB RADIO....THE so called LIBERALS case I made up, MAKES SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

We take it for granted we know of such matters. The average Joe Blow, what does he know......Only what he is told on the news and his education level.

Knowledge is power. To Joe Q Public's point of view these AMPS should be legal. It is GVT intervention. It is a conspiracy of the cell phone companies, to prevent working class people the right to choose how they communicate! you name it!

One does not have to be a liberal to see this point of view. The average Joe can look at Ham Radio as an elitist group of people with Lics. from thw U.S. GVT to use the public air waves!

HAMS have an up hill battle. A good lawyer could make a case for illegal AMPS. Why should only hams have the right to this FREE communications technology. I AM OF COURSE PLAYING THE DEVILS ADVOCATE!

So you cannot just brand people as liberals.
This is because with the right "SPIN", you can fool
people into the wrong decisions and actions.

We are toast if CB makes a comeback as a poor mans cell phone/free long distance with a 2KW amplifier.

This is my concern with an ultra watered down test to get a HAM ticket. The average Joe when given a choice of a cheaper easier way, will go for it!
A ham will care about spectrual purity, the freebander
could care less. Just give me my solid state kilowatt for $200 bux!

HAM radio has very little public exposure these days.
My concern with these 10-12M radio's and up to 2KW for under $400 is that it will catch on!
Remember CW McCall and the song Convoy? Even Betty Ford and Flip Wilson got into CB.

The new wanna-be no code, no theory ham. They might decide to spend less money, do not take a ham test. They might get confused on ebay too.
We could have a whole group of people running around with ham rigs with a dirty kilowatt.
It could catch on! It will hit POP culture again.

Lots of people, with lotsa kilowatts!

People might walk into Radio-Shacks and say.....How much are the latest 10,000 channel HAMCB's(one word).
The salesman says the test pamplete for the test is next to the satellight TV's-They are free with every purchase.

Ohh the 500Watt AMPS are on sale! Which one is that? THE CHERENOBLE MELT DOWN or THE MANHATTAN PROJECT?
When are the 2KW, 3 MILE ISLAND BRAND AMPS getting restocked!!!!

The Garages that do the ultra high power stereo's, will do the high power alternater and extra car batt. mod to your Hum-Vee!

73 and thanks for reading this piece of literary trash!
MIKE

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC9BNY on March 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey I have a Texas Star 667V for sale. First $400 takes it. It is in excellent condition!

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Texas Star 667V you have for sale.
Would you sell the 3Watt QRP CW transmitter it comes with for $10? What is the frequency of the xtal for 10M do you have?

I do not need the AMP section, unless you have built all the optional the bandpass filters.Input and output.
Twin PI-L for 80,40,20, and 15M.
Also I will need poloroids of a spectrum analyser that shows all spurs and harmonics are 50db down from output.

Love Those 'Enforcement Issues'

by K6ZZZ on March 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Without going into too much detail...I agree with N0UVV and even more so with W4MGY. Very nicely stated, MGY!!!

I recently called the FCC about their complicated ULS system for changing my address after I had moved. At one point I told the FCC rep that Hams were a bunch of PITA's for the most part and "retentive". She immediately laughed and said she was glad our conversation was being recorded. It sounded as thou she was going to pull the tape and pass it around the office for a good laugh. She expressed that amateurs give them (the FCC) the biggest frivilous workloads.

I would hate to work for the FCC and have to put up with all the amateurs calling in with enforcement complaints. It must drive them nuts, but they have to put up with it, I guess. I keep trying to renew my enthusiasm in ham radio, but it seems increasingly more futile everytime an issue like this comes up.

And yes, it is ONLY a hobby...not a civic duty. One I wish I could really enjoy to the full extent. It doesn't matter how many times you beat the horse, it's not gonna get any deader.

JJ / K6ZZZ

RE: Love Those 'Enforcement Issues'

by KE4MOB on March 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The FCC has written a citation to another company selling "export" radios.

See:

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-245209A1.html

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AE6IP on March 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>> The best estimates available indicate that there
>> are between 100 and 200 thousand CB users left
>> in the US, of whom probably 99% operate perfectly
>> legally.

> So what you are saying is in a country of
> ~300,000,000, there are less than half as
> many CBers than there are licensed hams?

The size of the country has nothing to do with the relative percentage of each.

> It is a nice fantasy but I don't think so, based on
> numbers of trucks alone & operations observed.

The 100-200k numbers are based on an analysis of industry revenue. They are also consisent with what I've seen in travelling over much of the Western United States in 2003.

Two things that will probably surprise you, but which are easily verifiable:

1) There's a shortage of long-haul truck drivers in the US, as the number of drivers has been declining for several years.

2) A surprising number of those trucks you see with antennas attached to their rear view mirrors are driven by licensed amateurs, and those antennas are not CB antennas.

(One of my current personal ham projects is to WAS 40m entirely with mobile 18 wheelers, (except AK and HI). I've been at it for a month, and I've already collected 20 QSL cards confirming contacts.)

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K4JF on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Hmm, so the "liberals" passed the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 did they? Check me if I'm wrong but Reagan was president in '86. Last time I checked he wasn't a liberal. "

And the last time I checked the Constitution, Congress passed laws, not the President.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Marty,

I respect your opinions on most things unlike many but on this you are way off. According to a quick glance at http://www.truckinfo.net/stats.asp#Size%20Stats

How big is the trucking industry?

The trucking companies, warehouses and private sector in the U.S. employs an estimated over 9 million Americans within the industry. Of this figure UPS employs 60,000 workers

How many trucks operate in the U.S.?

Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure 1.9 million are tractor trailers.

How many truckers are there?

It is an estimated over 3.3 million truck drivers in the U.S. Of that one in ten are independent, a majority of which are owner operators. Canada has in excess of 250,000 truck drivers.

How many trucking companies are there in the U.S.?

Estimates of over 360,000 companies in the U.S. Of that figure 96% operate 28 or fewer while 82% operate 6 or fewer trucks. ***[ now there's endless FCC potshot letter recipient list ]

Even if you apply a 50% tendency to go to the 'other channel', there are far more than 200,000. Then consider personal vehicles having radios as well.

I have no numbers on home stations or mobiles, hard to calculate.

You see my point that millions already break the law & 6 new radios or 13 new amplifiers seized are really a token joke.

The problem is operation, not new radios or sales in general. Listen along any interstate & you'll see that you can fill your boat with big fish all day, everyday!

Bill

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NE1Z on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K4JF: "And the last time I checked the Constitution, Congress passed laws, not the President"

Correct Sir!

The Congressman who drove the Electronic Criminal Protection Act of 1986 in the interest of the CTIA was Billy Tauzin. He also pushed the updated tightening in the 90's that made all cordless phone listening subject under ECPA as well, in response to the famous Florida couple's taping of Newt's cell calls.

Done in the name of selling a false security that cellphones were 'secure' by cell sales. Irony is digital cells have now made these not worth listening for!

Bill

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by NN6EE on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

CB is like BPL!!! Both cause CHAOS!!!

Either way the FCC does'nt really give a "Rat's Putoody" :-(((

All that they're (FCC) is interested in is $$$ being generated by selling our part of "Public-Domain" frequencies to the highest bidder or in the case of BPL to generate NEW technologies to generate even MORE $$$ for the U.S Treasury's coffers!!!

We're SCREWED either way!!!

JIM/nn6ee

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AE6IP on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> I respect your opinions on most things unlike many but on this you are
> way off.

It is entirely possible. It is very difficult to get good numbers.

I do appreciate you taking the time to find the trucking industry
numbers, and for keeping this a civil discussion. Thanks.

> According to a quick glance at
> http://www.truckinfo.net/stats.asp#Size%20Stats

> [...] Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure
> 1.9 million are tractor trailers. [...]

> Even if you apply a 50% tendency to go to the 'other channel', there
> are far more than 200,000. Then consider personal vehicles having
> radios as well.

You have to first subtract all of the UPS, FedEx, and some (most?) of
the other large shippers, since they uniformly prohibit their drivers
to use anything but company provided communications. I have no sense
of how many of the 1.9 million tractor-trailers that would be. You also have to subtract most of the short haul trucks, as they rarely have antennas of any kind, except, maybe, MURS or one of the business services.

> I have no numbers on home stations or mobiles, hard to calculate.

> You see my point that millions already break the law & 6 new radios or
> 13 new amplifiers seized are really a token joke.

With all due respect, no, I don't. If there are 2 million over-the-road trucks in
the US, and only half of them have CB, as you estimate, than there are
at most 1 million over-the-road trucks that have CB. "Have CB" is not the same as
"break the law". If 90% of the truckers are good citizens, then you
get maybe 100k "law breakers."

On the other hand, i fully agree that as an enforcement example, 6
radios and 13 amps is a joke. Despite their policy to the contrary,
you can usually find that many or more for sale on EBay on any day.

> The problem is operation, not new radios or sales in general.

Yes. But CB is a consumer electronics market, so you can easily
estimate the total # of radios on the market by the annual sales
figures. For instance, in 1974, at the peak of the CB craze, when
there were at least 10 million CB users, the industry annual revenue
was about 750 million dollars. However, in 2001 (most recent year I
have numbers for,) the industry annual revenue was right around 1
million dollars. CBs are still priced about the same as they were in
74. If you factor replacement versus new user costs in, and include
recycling old CBs, you get a conservative number of around 100,000
active CB users in 2001. Even if all the sales are replacement
radios, and the replacement rate is .5%/year you still only get around
250,000.

Anyway, those are the numbers my guestimate are based on, and I accept
that they are off by some factor. I don't thing they're off by the
factor of 100 that "millions of lawbreakers" would require.

> Listen along any interstate & you'll see that you can fill your boat
> with big fish all day, everyday!

In 2003, I listened along Interstates 40, 70, 80, 90, 5, 10, and 15,
covering about 10,000 miles on those highways. I live less than 20
miles across San Francisco bay from the Port of Oakland, one of the
busiest trucking terminals in the country, and I listen, from time to
time.

What I have discovered is a lot of truckers no longer using CB, but,
instead using everything from amateur radio through company provided
satellite systems to cell phones and even Wi-Fi. (Hottest selling
item *to* truckstops: Wi-Fi PoP systems.) I *did* encounter bad
behavior, but, oddly enough, almost all of it eminated from the same
handful of stations -- all located in the South East.

It is my opinion, based on discussions with other amateurs,
discussions with friends and family in the trucking industry, and my
own driving around the West, that there is still a problem with CBers,
but that it is confined, mainly, to some areas of the Southeast (which
I've heard,) and the East (mainly around Baltimore,) which has been
described to me.

Anyway, I do accept that there are problem CBers, but I suspect that
the size of the entire CB community, and the size of the problem are
both orders of magnitude smaller than is usually thought.

I also believe that this is one problem that would best be solved by
changing the rules. Let them have their amps and repeal the distance
limit. Other countries do so with their CB service and don't have the
kinds of problems the US seemes to.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA0PWW on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I was wondering why the ham bands were so quite..
I found everybody here.

Six Two and Even...Over and out!

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA0PWW on March 26, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I meant quiet

Just an opinion.....

by K8CPA on March 27, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hi Guys,

Just an opinion, from someone who been in that business, got out of it, because of the legal issues and because the product was junky, and the profit margin was very shallow, as were the people buying the product.

I got a shocking revelation for you guys, The FCC will NEVER, EVER, fully stop the production, importation of those Linear amps, It's been proven for years. No sooner than the FCC shuts one manufacturing spot down, another one springs up in it's place. The FCC knows this. You guys think they don't know where the majority of these amps come from? Don't kid yourself, they know, but they really don't care. as for the "Type-accepted" radios. I see the FCC busting the shops that sell them, what about the manufactures that BUILD the radios. all they got to do is a little research and find the people, and shut them down. problem is, they KNOW for a fact, that if they bust them, they'll pay the fine and keep on producing. It's beem done before... they got them on a technicality, shipping the radios, already on 11 meters. well, they put them on 10 meters and skirt around that law. and now they're going around busting the shops, why not get the manufactures???

Now, before anyone gets they Fruit of the looms in a knot, I'm not saying I support this trade or the building of amps or any of that. I'm just saying the FCC should refocas their actions on the BUILDERS, not the shops... and if they're going to bust them, BUST them right, take their building materials and distroy them, force them to close thier shops... don't fine them, hit 'em where it hurts!

just an opinion.

73 and gud DX,

-Chuck K8CPA

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ah heck. Thank you. I ain't really stupid. You and I both know, what inputs sit here make no dfference anyhow. No matter which side one takes, legal or logical, illegal or illogical, someone doesn't like it. And that's the beauty of our country and consitution.

Pro-code?! I ain't worked code since this darned computer arrived in 1993. I passed the code test because it was the law if I were to operate. I conformed. I own no illegal amplifiers, don't wish to. You're alright. Together, we can make a difference? Let's press on and laugh at those inputs. They amount to nothing.

I'm from St. Louis, not Georgia. They call me a dammned Yankee. A Yankee is one from the North. A dammned Yankee is one from the North and stays. These Georgians can't read a compass. N'yuk, n'yuk.

Please give my best to you and your dear family.

73

Kraus

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K7VO on March 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KG4PFO: Most hams I know DO NOT own one and wouldn't be caught dead with one in the shack. You are a relatively new ham. I think you need to hang out with a better crowd than you do now.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by RADIO123US on March 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AE6IP said "I also believe that this is one problem that would best be solved by changing the rules. Let them have their amps and repeal the distance
limit. Other countries do so with their CB service and don't have the kinds of problems the US seemes to."

Marty, you must be kidding....I don't think making something legal that is currently ILLEGAL solves anything.... There are reasons why we have such laws in place..most of them have to do with interference to other radio services. So by changing the law will it make the RF output of these ILLEGAL amps any cleaner ??? I don't think so.....

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W7DUD on March 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

In checking e-Bay for illegal CB Power Amplifiers, I see several "Stereo CB Power Amplifiers"

This doesn't pass the smell test. Why a "STEREO" CB Power Amplifier. Itt appears to have coaxial connectors on the back.

Stereo, Amplifier, and Coax would not seem compatable with CB operation.

Where am I going wrong? do people like to listen to high-power CB AUDIO?

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by W7DUD on March 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Back in the late 1960s, I had a First Class FCC license. Periodically, the FCC would have me check out CB interference interference to Broadcast and TV reception.

In one case, neighbors reported voices comming out of the water heater!

On the way to the town in question, I was monitoring the CB channel. I heard the Nickname in question telling his buddies that he had installed the "Leenyr" under his bed, so it could not be found.

I found it very interesting and absolutely fascinating that the water heater next door, really was "talking", as the CBr was talking.

After some time to ponder, I think that the water pipe connections, were rectifing the strong amplifier signal, and I was hearing the rectified audio. Needless to say, all Radio and TV signals were being severly trashed. The FCC was provided with the details.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WA2JJH on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

HELLO MARTY! even though it is spring break for me, I will debate you.

Lets say we make those $400 2KW AMPS legal, as you say we should.

Do not I or others have the right to listen to a CD on my stereo and not have a 2KW mobile ruin my music.
I am listening to Hendrix and and some 2KW mobile splash box ruins the guitar lead break to Voodo Child!

This happens to me ALL the time! Different music and songs of course!

Would you not be P.O.ed if your recording something on your D.A.W. and a now legal $400 2KW on 11M finds the first diode in your system and ruins that ""perfect take""?

What do you say to that? As a fellow muscian and engineer, you should see how it is when the foot is on the other hand(hi-hi)

73 MIKE

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by VE3TMT on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To quote W4MGY:
"I think it is funny as hell how we all get bent all out of shape over a bunch of CBer's running trashy KW amps all over 26-30 mHz"

Well I am one of those who gets bent all out of shape. The first time you tell the landlord, or property board you are an amateur radio operator and would like to install an antenna, the first thing that comes to mind is "CB RADIO". Admit it or not. If I had a dollar for everytime someone asked me "Is that a CB in your car?" They see an antenna on the car and a radio inside, they assume you have a CB. Just plain uneducation on the part of the general public when it comes to the differences between CB and Amateur Radio. I submitted a written proposal to my property manager, praising this hobby, explaining how we come to help in emergency communications during disasters, etc. NO GO! "YOU AREN'T PUUTING ONE OF THOSE CB ANTENNAS ON THE ROOF!"

So when some CB yahoo gets on the air with his KW and trashes everyones TV within a three block radius, you wonder why I get bent out of shape. Funny as hell isn't it?

And one other thing, can someone tell me how you get 600W out of a pair of MRF422's? That is what these jokers on eBay claim with their so called "linear" amplifiers. I think it is time for eBay to take notice of all these amps offered for sale on their site. But then again, just like my property manager, they just don't care.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by VE3TMT on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well I just searched through the current crop of eBay listings on "ham" amplifiers and easily found ten or mor. So I listed ten and sent off a complaint to eBay. What happens, I got ten confirmation e-mails! They need to wake up and filter this crap that gets posted. Phrases like "not for use on CB" and "amature (sic) amplifier" are good enough in their rules to get posted on the site. When was the last time you saw an Alpha or Emtron with a receive pre-amp? As I said, just plain uneducation. I would gladly take the job of "filterer" for eBay when it comes to these garbage amps. You would never see another on the site. But unfortunately nothing can and will be done about it. Just not important enough,

Have a great day everyone, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and I've got air in my lungs.

73,
VE3TMT

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K8CPA on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Anyone know the e-mail address that you cn send these auctions to and get them taken off e-bay?

-Chuck K8CPA

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC4ZGP on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

So if I clip D27, I can become a CBer?! Wow! That's neat. 10-4 good buddy.

Kraus

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by K2AES on March 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

These things have been available for more than 40 years. Anyone who wants one knows where to get one, notwithstanding e-bay, and despite the continuing efforts of the FCC to shut off the supply. They are available from dozens of "underground" suppliers. I prefer to leave being the Radio Police up to the FCC.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KE4MOB on March 31, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Wow!! I'm surprised it took this long for somebody to throw out the "Radio Police" line...

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB9POM on March 31, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

so who is gonna drive up to the hams' houses that are running 5 kw plus? Hams are so bent out of shape in some areas im embarrassed to say i am onei could name at least 25 hams i know within a 3 state area that are running fom 2000 to 8000 watss but its ok they are hams bull butter

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KA4AJA on April 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To the audio guy: buy equipment wiith proper bypassing ansd shielding!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AE6IP on April 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> HELLO MARTY! even though it is spring break for me,
> I will debate you.

> Lets say we make those $400 2KW AMPS legal, as you
> say we should.

Actually, that's not what I say, although I can see how you could infer it. I say remove the 4 watt power limit, and require type acceptance of external CB amplifiers.

> Do not I or others have the right to listen to a CD
> on my stereo and not have a 2KW mobile ruin my
> music.

Yes, you do. And, as a part 15 device, it's up to the CD player manufacturer to make sure it can tolerate any interference it receives from licensed spectrum users who are operating legally. Too bad most consumer electronic devices don't really do that.

> I am listening to Hendrix and and some 2KW mobile
> splash box ruins the guitar lead break to Voodo
> Child!

Sorry to hear that. Maybe you need a copy of the ARRL RFI book.

> This happens to me ALL the time! Different music and
> songs of course!

Sounds like you've got a shielding problem.

> Would you not be P.O.ed if your recording something
> on your D.A.W. and a now legal $400 2KW on 11M finds
> the first diode in your system and ruins
> that ""perfect take""?

Yes. And I would have strong words to say to the CE designer who designed a device that didn't meet the requirement to accept interference.

> What do you say to that? As a fellow muscian and
> engineer, you should see how it is when the foot is
> on the other hand(hi-hi)

I say it's a shame how much crap the consumer electronics industry gets away with. It's terrible when legitimate amateurs working with legal equipment end up having to deal with angry neighbors because the neighbors bought gear that wasn't designed to reject that interference.

(I'm experiencing a bit of this right now. Turns out that the 'motion sensor' yard lights we're using use doppler radar to detect motion. They also don't deal very well with 40m signals. I turn them on everytime I transmit.)

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AB8RU on April 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hmm I would say if there is a gripe usually a neighbor will call a TVI report to the FCC then they in turn tell em go but a TVI filter or call their service provider to install one at no extra charge.

Some Kilocycle cop on 11 M. what go put a pin in the offendors coax ?

just like the fake FCC persons no ID and whatever as long they don't come over on 10 Meters I can say if the FCC asked me to get involved then I'll do that.

Besides 11 M. CB here is a total joke anyway, and in my opinion since Radio Shack is getting out of the 2 way market, all you may have is pirated cheaply built amps that will probably blow up anyway, as well cheapo CB's will self destruct as well.

the FCC did list Uncertified Radios about a year ago, It all goes back to the Prosecuting Attorney question is is there enough evidence to bring it before a Federal Judge.

Besides local communities are making laws on CB operation, and City Cops have busted a few of them, now the local courts are handling these cases.

E bay does NOT listen!

by 5R8GQ on May 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have sent notices about illegal
amps to the E-bay police and they did nothing about
them. The amps were there until they
got sold. They also allow selling of
illegal "10m/cb" import rigs capable of more
than 5 watts on CB. Some are even posted there by
dealers. I don't think e-bay really cares.
The first time I made the report it took
me 10 minutes to even find the place to make
the report. The ham pages there are turning
into a joke. Have you noticed a lot of the
CB and "10m" amps are posted with comments like
"I am not into electronics so I don't know much
about it, but the lights come on and everything
seems to work". If they are not into electronics
how do they know enough to post it on the ham radio
page? They know enough NOT to post it on the
CB page, that's for sure, because they know
it is an illegal amp!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by 5R8GQ on May 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

To the guy who wanted to know if he could use
a CB brick with his ham rig......
NO! They don't have any low pass filters.
They would probably work OK from 10m to 40m,
but not 80 to 160m. They are also COR only
(carrier operated relay) there is no PTT line,
so you could only use them on SSB. No RTTY or
PSK31 as they have no fan or enough heat sink for 100% duty cycle. I would stay away from them.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by WO8USA on July 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

With as much time as all are spending arguing ths point, you could have had a few nice QSOs and keep our bands active. n The few minutes I spent reading was too much

Chris WO8USA

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC8MWG on August 6, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Myself, what I detest is the "base station" CBers who crank out as much power as they can and use obnoxious sound-effects devices (burp/fart/toilet flush/echo), and not tonly deliberately try to be as offensive as possible, but bleed over into other portions of the radio spectrum. I have no problem with CB radio in general ( I have one in my 4x4 truck, for communication with non-hams I may be riding with), but it is NOT amplified (in fact, I think it's only 2 watts output).
Personally, I think a great solution to the 10K base station morons is to go on a nice little "foxhunt", wait until the station goes off the air, and drive a nail through the moron's coax. POOF!!! no more illegal equipment (hey, we ARE supposed to be self-policing, ain't we??? ;) )

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AC6IN on October 28, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I love this topic. I like the hams that turn their noses up at all cb'ers and they started in cb. How many hams do this ?? I know friends of mine who are great people that run cb's Jesus get a life ham radio is a hobby.

I have been an extra class ham for well over a decade and I know plenty of idiots that get on 2 meters and its just as bad as cb. ie 147.435 repeter in so. cal. I also love the no code techs that are on the cb bashing crusade, what a joke. I still have cb's to this day and love that hobby as well. Oh well my 2 cents worth.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB1QH on November 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The guys from tower talk are great people. Heres a answer to who ever reads this all you retards need to wake up in the world. I really do not give a shit what you post you people are assholes and most of the arrl big hand radio hand book is fool of shit the man from texas should stay there and not talk his shit about the north east and how antennas work on mountains. A book based on shit i will remove my name from this bull shit air head site. The guys on here are ham brains. You assholes on here do not even reply to emails.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB1QH on November 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Only little new borns also worry about what the other person is doing. All side band operators do is cry all day about how every one is off frequency when they should get a real life. But when a operator on ten meters or 11 meters comes on with a 72 foot long 9 element flat side and puts the signal meter in the end zone in dx land on two hundred watts he clears a frequency on sideband. Am is were its at to be the best you need to own the best. The superbowl is a great contest channel. I agree you do not need ten thousand watts on am theres guys running thirty thousand watts. When a superstar comes out and can rule his state on small watts and sound like a broadcast station he must be smart running over guys running twenty thousand watts or thirty. The fcc should bust guys running echo mics and roger beeps and bad audio.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KB1QH on November 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I must really say eham review on ameritron atr 30 should of got a 5.0 best antenna tuner i ever owened it will not skip a beat on ten meters or the other at 1600 watts of am power. and also the al 1200 ameritron a hell of a amp never even need to retune works great every day on the same channel. My hat goe's off to mike. I found a awsome 4 tube driver contains four 6146 tubes and has a rca jack to key that beautiful al 1200 up. The omega force s45 is a dual final radio with a built in modulator it will key a quarter watt and swing 15 watts on low power just right for the driver puts a 9 watt carrier in the al 1200 and stays right up at 120 watts on audio. The al 1200 keys 50 watts and stays at 1500 on audio. I just can't find a ham radio that will talk am with broadcast sound. w2ihy julias makes a hell of a 8 band eq and bob heils goldline hc-5 element is the only way to go. The only thing is you have to turn it to hi z with a transformer because the export radios do not have a lot of audio frequency response so you kill the low end and raise your base. I sound better now than my 1955 johnson valiant that loves to drift frequency. Heres another thing the fcc should make the new ham radios with high level audio and am is were it's at and raise the power level like sideband 1500 watts. The world can be a much better place 73s

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by BEEKER7104 on December 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Leave it alone, Seriously, Why spend all this time trying to keep those that most of you seem to think are poor white trailer trash and miscreants. The use of mobile linears(according to the F.C.C) is not illegal as long as we are not using amplifiers with output power over 500 watts. I know this to be true, If necessary I can copy or scan the letter I recieved from the F.C.C which stated to my neighbor no less, That "UNLESS" such person is operating a linear amplifier "over" 600 watts within his/her home, or 500 watts in his/her mobile, There is nothing illegal about it. For your best interest however, you can go ask your neighbor to place a filtering device on his/her antenna to help with the "bleed over" effect.

It is not the main purpose of we as cb'ers to "damage" the Amateur radio frequencies, We are here to have fun talking to others. Be it within our individual communities, or while on a road trip. I do know that the basic ham lisense in our area(to take the test) costs a mere $25.00 and I myself and a few others are going to take this test. (as is needed to "purchase" from the F.C.C certain freqs.) for our own "private" use.

RE: eBay DOES LISTEN

by BEEKER7104 on December 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Granted there are certain policies that all must follow, But does it not also state within the F.C.C that these policies are varied from state to state?. Take Ohio for example.....The state of Ohio limits Cb Amplifiers in home use at 600 Watts, and Mobiles- No more than 500 Watts. If you think the problems of this country is only because of those of us that prefer to use CB's then you need to get a clue. There are more dangers lurking out there than we few that you are taking pride in discriminating against. Do you , or ARE you a "RACIST"? do you believe that your ham radio clan is the best there is, And to hell with those who try? It is not a good neighbor policy to condemn a person just because they cannot obtain a particular liscense for use of the "FM" bands. Yes I am a Cb'er, Yes I own a 11 meter radio, NO I do not play in the 11 meter bands. But I use it for recreation purposes only. I can listen to you, I could talk to you as well, but choose not to.

RE: eBay DOES LISTEN

by INTHESHOP on January 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

i just read through this entire thing... im a CB guy so i know i will be masacared for typing in this forum... i was just wondering 2 things 1: why is it that Ham guys are so against CB guys, i dont break any laws and yes i have considered doing so... and 2: if i ended up getting my amature licence would i be legalally alowed to run a linear amp on a CB radio

RE: eBay DOES LISTEN

by KB0COI on January 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Hmmm I have had my ticket for 17 years now and I'm not renewing in 2008, why, because this message board sounds just like some repeaters around here, I sold most of my gear because I got tired of listening to you flamerz.

Oh yeah that guy talking about the RM Italy amplifiers those things are as easy to modify for 11 meters as a Texas Star "cw transmitter" is.

I've run a clean cb base station here for more than a decade and I've never had ANY! RFI problems I don't recieve any RFI on any of my electronics.

I think some of you are drinking drano

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by THECBBUBBA on April 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

"And why should hams care what happens in CB or freeband? It's not our responsibility to police FCC regulations outside the ham bands as long as they stay off our bands and do not interfere with our ability to use our equipment without intereference from signals from another service."

exactly right,its NOT your reponsibility to police anything.

one time, a few years ago, there was a problem with a local cb radio weedhead playing around on 2 Meters. a local ham radio operator thought he had the authority to "police" the bands, walked in the guys house thinking he was going to "police" something, threatened the guy and got shot 4 times in the head with a .357 magnum. THE GUY GOT TOTALL OFF ON THE THING AS THE COURTS SAW IT AS A SELF DEFENSE THING...let that be a lesson when you think your going to "police" anything.cant blame him one bit. if some ditzy ham operator walked in my house, id kill him too.

as ham operators, you dont own the airwaves, the frequencies,ect. furthermore, the FCC has, for the most part abandoned CB radio enforcment (for the MOST PART). you ham operators think that your just the best of the best. i know several "CB operators that have been operating on ham bands for years by just picking up someones callsign off the web abd using it ( something i dont condone myself). i know someones going to say 'OH!...OH!...wait till the FCC catches them!" but the fact is, HOWS the FCC going to catch them?..they havent caught them for YEARS.....as far as linear amplifiers and "CB" goes, from what i understand by speaking to the FCC myself, and my local law enforcement here, the FCC has a much left enforcment of CB radio up to local authorities, who wont touch it with a ten foot poll.
you guys get on here and act like your *$&^ doesnt stink, and we know better. theres not one person on this forums that can say they obey every single law in everyday life. most of you act like bending the rules on ham/cb is something a person should get the gas chamber for. what would you rather have?...some dummy speeding thru your town at 65 miles an hour in a 35 or a school zone, or some cber using an amplifier on 11 meters? at least the cbers not out there running over YOUR children, smoking or manufactering crank or crack cocaine, or murdering and raping your wife/mother/aunt/ect.

most of you need to get a clue about the real play.

Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KC5DJB on July 15, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Dont give me the holyer than thou routine, CB police we are not how many Icoms and Kenwoods are modified for MARS like everyone is using it for mars give me a break. As for 10m amps its all about money and I ask a real question how many hams have come up through the ranks as free-banders, they get the bug and move through the ranks and yes I said it not everyone has 400.00 for a radio to see if he wants to be a ham. So he gets a CB and learns the good the bad and see's some ugly. If he likes it he stays or asks around and becomes a ham or maybe he just might become a good cb operator. There are good and bad in every group dont ding a guy for being what he is though.
Ok now you can chew on me!

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by AI4KK on November 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Why chew on you? I think your post made the most sense of anyone's here.

RE: Love Those 'Ten meter amplifiers'

by KI4LSH on March 12, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KC5DJB....you are my hero! You pretty much narrowed it down with the "hollier than thou" comment. How many of us here got our start with CB? And, when we were into CB, how many of us ran our equipment to the full extent of the law? Heck, talking skip (more than 150 miles) on CB is illegal according to section 95. Can we all say that we never talked skip when we were CBers? So everyone here that has posted negativity about CBers and their activity can honestly say (before whatever higher power may be) that they've went totally by the book from day one? A big fat B.S. Its just an example and I myself, being a ham who originated from the CB days, am not going to bash a bunch of guys who enjoy the same hobby as we do.....radio. Think I'm the redneck CB stereotype? Think again.

A little history about myself, I started in CB when I was about 9 years old. Stayed there till I was about 12. I got into ham radio and received my novice when I was 13. Ever looked at a FT-101EE? My first radio, and I was very surprised to see "11 meters" on the front face. Anywho, I actually got out of radio all together for almost 20 years. Last September, I got this bug for some reason about getting back into my old hobby and for 90 days I busted my tail and went through the ranks and got my Extra by December.

I get back into ham radio, primarily 2 meters, and I constantly hear this BS about maintaining a "standard". I like to kid around, make friends and enjoy the hobby. My specialty is the technical side, homebrew, etc. But my QSOs are no better than Billy Bob down the street keying the mic on his CB radio talking to his friends. I've just passed a few tests, have a callsign and my conversation must be a little more "proper". I also enjoy a more serious side which is emergency communications practice through our local ARES organization. I do not understand the attitude that we as hams are better than anyone else thats interested in radio. This has bothered me ever since I got back into the hobby. And I must say that there are only a few in the Savannah area that seem to express this idea. Guess what.....in the event of an emergency, natural disaster, etc and radio is our only means of communication, I'll bet we get a little help from CBers.

I have to admit that I'm one of the unfortunate ones that have read through every one of these posts and the last two are the only ones that hit home. Yep, linear amplifiers are illegal but its like anything else illegal, you can find one around every corner and they are here to stay. If ebay stops the sales, then head down to your local truck stop and buy one. If they don't have one, take a look on the internet and I'm sure you'll find plenty. I imagine the FCC has much more important issues to deal with than a CBer with an amplifier. Say maybe, intercepting terrorist communications?

I'm definitely not saying that I support illegal activity on a band, but I have to wonder how many people who posted ravings about linears (or illegal equipment in general) actually owned one at some point in time or even operated out of band with a "MARS/CAP" mod. That knowledge would be interesting I'm sure. Ha! I've seen linear amplifers on ebay sold by hams which operate over 2KW! But thats ok....we're maintaining the "standard". 73's everyone!

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