IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

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IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KB2CPW on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If they want a world class radio, they better make their firmware user upgradable and alot less flakey than their current lot of radio offerings. I always liked Yaesu products, but for every good thing they make, they seem to spoil it with a "sprinkle" of the bad.
Take the FT100, I made thousands of contacts with it after wringing out all of the bugs myself. Its is a top class mobile rig with superior dsp,nb and audio. It is suffers from some problems which were eventually taken care of by Yaesu, but not fast enough IMHO. I saw countless rigs suffer the same stupid problems while the telephone techs at Yaesu "disavowed any knowledge" of the problem. Heck, I knew of hundreds from the Yahoo group, but they never heard of any problems, makes you wonder.
Anyway, if this changes, they can do wonders with this new rig. The FT1000 is no slouch, a very nice radio that is worth every penny asked on the used market. There is nothing about it that is questionable, plenty of power, nice rx and tx audio and a full compliment of filtering.
Pattern the new radio with the after sales service of the Orion and they cant go wrong (at least with firmware revisions and board swapping etc). Thats what always made the Ten Tec a contesters radio, which is the main appeal of these high end rigs.
Another thing they may want to do is include the best of the what they had into this new rig. ie; I currently own the FT857 which is a nice rig, it could have used the NB circuit from the FT100 to make it 100% as we all know the NB in the FT100 is legendary.

I wish Yaesu luck with the rollout and I am sure they will sell many, keep the updates flowing and I am sure it will sell like crazy.. Regards.. Richy N2ZD

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by VE1IDX on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Interesting that it shows the power output scale at 500 watts full scale.Seems like the plan on it having at least a couple hundred watts out.Having REAL analog meters would be great.The biggest (only) complaint I have about my FT-857 is the crappy meter. BTW this is my first post here and hope to do many more.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KT0DD on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

First of all, this class of radio is not an amateur radio in my opinion. It is commercial equipment. At the prices they are asking, I could call Harris Radio Corp. and have one custom built most likely right here in the USA.

Second, Bells, whistles, and slot machine features still seem more important than actual performance. Both these radios have more features than I'll ever use or need. And at $3500, the Ten Tec Orion is $7500 less than the IC-7800, and some VERY knowledgeable people tell me the performance difference won't be that noticeable to the human ear, and the Orion may yet come out on top at 1KHZ signal spacing or less.

I don't know what Yaesu's price will be, but I just can't see spending that much money. I'm not even getting an Orion until they start showing up on the used market at around $1000 off. 73.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WIRELESS on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Bring back the SR-2000, or some modern equivalent. The radios made today all operate like they were cloned from the same sample. I need something new to look at and I am not paying $13K for a new radio, maybe $1.3K.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W8JJI on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

MEGA RADIOS !

This reminds me of a japaneese monster movie.

I think that the 500 watt Yaesu would have to be Godzilla !

To bad it doesn't seem to have AM and FM capability.
(HUGE mistake)

How about a "monster radio" from KENWOOD ?

-that would be cool !!!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K9COX on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I would not read too much into the SSB radio nomenclature. I believe it is just a generalized statement. Also, keep in mind that the FT-1000MP MarkV meter reads up to 400 watts and it is a 200 watt radio. More information should be available at Dayton. Anything now is just speculation.

73 Ross K9COX

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC5E on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The rumor of the FT-9000 has been around for a while now. So has a rumor of a "new" TS2000D of some sort.

But the bottom line is still performance. We are all noise limited - and the '7800's specs do not exactly inspire confidence. Hopefully Kenwood and Yaesu can do better.

But unless these new radios can substantially exceed "last years" Orion in close in signal separation, they are worth less than an Orion. And at the advertised price of about $11,000 for an IC-7800, and the Yaesu most likely in the same price class, a ham would be MUCH better off buying an Orion and putting the difference in antennas.

200 watts? 500 watts? If I need more than 100 watts I have a choice of four legal limit amplifiers to choose from. What do I do when I need an amp on line in a hurry? I push that button, flip this switch, and I can have 1300 Watts in two seconds. All with a 100 watt radio that won't heat the shack up when I am just listening. And whose internal heat won't cause problems with component life and frequency stability.

73 Pete Allen AC5E

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K1CJS on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Its amazing what the manufacturers will do in pursuit of $$$. There is no mass produced radio around that is worth ten thousand dollars. Its a shame some of us will buy them and in the process perpetuate the baloney that radios like the ones coming out are worth the money being asked for them. Shame on us for being so gullible.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC5UP on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Icom had the right idea when they went with a flat panel display on the IC-756 and Ten-Tec had the right idea with the new Orion... But, neither of them went far enough.

The technology of color TFT displays and related support chips are both mature and cost-effective enough that it's time for someone to offer a radio with a fully programmable front panel and a minimum of knobs, switches and meters. Yeah, I know there were two notable market failues at 'box' radios using a PC as the user interface, but I can't help but wonder how not-too-hard it would be to build a rig that had presets arranged by mode.

Like... Punch CW and the display and function buttons auto-configure for adjustments relative to that mode. The same set of buttons take on different functions in SSB, FSK, AM, FM, etc with prompts appropriate to the mode. The display can give you bandwidth, offset, IF shift and meters in any flavor the mode prefers. It's like a workspace with the only limitations in graphic size and type. You want virtual meters? You got it... You want an S-Meter in the shape of a pie or bar chart with color coding? Not a problem.

Take that a step further by offering a software kit for those who may have a better idea than the factory and let the users write their own front panel display and control choices. When you consider that DVD players and VCR's routinely sell for $50 - $60 with on-screen programming, the chipsets can't be that expensive. The goal here is maximum flexibility for the user without cluttering the front panel with seldom-used keys... You know, like Collins used to do.

Endless menus with cryptic number prompts got a bad rap in the 90's (and in some cases deservedly so), but the technology is mature enough to allow for a rig with a large and informative display that favors operating data over scads of buttons and little red lights. Yes, I know about the most-buttons-for-the-buck marketing strategies, but maybe it's time to ask ourselves if we buy our radios to make Q's... Or just to fiddle with?

We've reached the point where it's possible to offer a world-class rig with all the bells & whistles anyone could want in the $2k price range and simplify the user interface to the point where it's mostly plug & play by mode. Let the user concentrate on operating the band, not the rig. If the Big 3 can't sell that concept it's not the technology that's the issue.

It's the market...

- AC5UP

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N5XM on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

What a pissing contest. I can understand the competition for the ultra-high end contesting and DX dollar, but this is like two very wealthy drunks playing high stakes poker. If you can afford stacks at 175 feet, et cetera, you can certainly afford ten grand plus for a rig, but until we have a quantum leap in technology, we are well past the point of diminishing returns as far as performance is concerned. I'm sure the 7800 will be a wonderful rig, as will the big Yaesu, but the whole thing is really funny, IMO. I'll keep my Orion. At least I can get on the phone and talk to a human being who is also a Ham if I have a question. You can't put a price on that.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by ASTROHAM on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

With the advent of these radios, ham radio is just now being hit with the super-premium niche products that have hit other hobbies (archery, cycling, astronomy, RC models, crafts, golf, etc). These radios are the beginning of a niche market that manufacturers see as more profitable per unit than the regular stuff. True, the percentage difference in measurable performance is at the diminishing returns part of the curve, but those who treasure the performance see the increment as a value proposition that is the edge they need and will strain to afford.
Also, these radios will spark a cult split between the "perfectionists" and the so-called "value realists" that will fuel a discussion with a level of acrimony that will make the no-code debate pale by comparison.
Hold on tight...here we go.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC0X on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

All we know about this radio is some very vague advertising copy and a picture of a couple of meters. Yet, based on that, not only are people making determinations on the quality of the radio, they're also using that to make determinations on the future of ham radio. Dear God....

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W4VR on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This is not news. That picture has been floating around the internet for over a month now. And, it's rumored the radio will put out 400 watts.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K0RFD on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The Yaesu is vaporware.
The Icom is dribbleware.

Until a reasonable sample of either or both of these radios get into the hands of Hams, there's nothing to talk about.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W2IRT on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If I'm not mistaken Kenwood has just EOLed the 870. If this is correct, we're likely going to be looking at a new top of the line offering from them within the next few years as well. I'm just hoping they sit back and wait for the dust to settle on these "ultimate" radios before they jump into the fray.

I think many will agree that the Orion is still the radio to beat for performance, and in the mid-$3k range, it's not completely out of the realm of the possible. If Kenwood has any brains they'll come out with an Orion beater of their own, but hopefully within the same price/performance class as the Orion, not the 7800/FT-9000 et al.

I also find the timing of these releases somewhat strange. Why on earth would anyone release a $10,000 top-end HF radio at this point in the sunspot cycle? HF will be dropped like a hot potato by a large number of hams in the next three or four years as conditions bottom out. I could see introducing these at Hamvention 2008 or so, but not now.

73,
Peter, W2IRT
(who's still saving up for an Orion)

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by LNXAUTHOR on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AC5UP made some excellent points regarding modern rigs, what to demand from manufacturers, and what to expect...

Ten Tec offered that kind of hardware in the Pegasus, but recently discontinued the line - seems like buyers wanted hardware buttons and dials?

Fortunately the Jupiter has a Pegasus mode (and is a Pegasus w/a panel?), and for those who use Windows, there is VE1ADH's free control program (which includes source), and N4PY's rig control package...

Would any ham buy a rig with a sealed chassis or no available service manual? I don't think so...

but this is where we're headed unless manufacturers start 'opening up' on software control, memory control, and programming information for their rigs...

just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation)

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WR8D on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ref LNXAUTHOR:
It should be clear why they are sealing the chassis and not providing any service manuals. When bubba chickenband can go out and buy a study guide and read it on monday and go pass the extra class test on wednesday at least these manufacturers know soon the ham community will be too damn dumb to work or service anything they operate. We're being dumbed down to the point, get it out of the box, plug it in and see the pretty lights go on. You'll hear voices come out a speaker. Press that pretty button and you can talk into your mic and the voices can hear what you say too.

WR8D

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W4EWJ on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

WR8D is on the money....this hobby is to the point
that the entrants hardly know what the hell HF radio'
is only that "see the pretty hi fi set with all the
neat knobs, LEDs" I talk into it and it talks back.
"hows my audio"

That says it all.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC7KZ on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Did I read right. The price for the ic-7800 is around $10,000. Man I love my rigs that I paid $1000 for. That's the limit. There is no way I will take a second mortgage to have a 7800.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N9DG on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AC5UP is right on the mark with his comments. The future of ham radio gear is not more of the "same old stuff" (but more of it) in the same old box approach that the IC-7800 and the FTDX 9000 represent. They are in a word, "boring", ... ZZZZZ.

We instead need a fresh new approach to the way we work with our radios and how we build our stations. The generic PC is the key to making that happen, not just designing yet another traditional radio with some narrowly defined, special purpose microprocessors stuffed inside and a bazzillion menus and buttons to wade through. Additionally the "Big 3" just don't get it, - the future of where ham radio gear design is headed to can be found here:

http://www.flex-radio.com/

As for the Kachina 505DSP it was arguably just too far ahead of its time. And more importantly Kachina as a company totally dropped the ball when it came to promoting and encouraging the 3rd party software authors to write software for it. The Ten Tec Pegasus has faired far better in that respect and has in fact sold in substantially large numbers, - mainly because of the 3rd party software written for it. Some of that 3rd party software now extends to all current generation Ten Tec radio models and is also branching into other brands. The Kenwood TS-B2000 seems to be languishing in the marketplace; again it is because nobody is writing much creative software for it. This is because hams in general aren't asking for the right software, - they are too busy being led around by the nose by the "Big 3's" marketing departments.

Additionally the so-called "CAT" (Computer Aided Transceive) idea is rapidly becoming obsolete as well. CAT as now defined is too slow and limiting to be very useful for anything but basic control functions. It is instead soon going to be replaced by something more like "CIT" (Computer Integrated Transceive). This is a concept where the RF parts of the radio are tightly integrated with the DSP and PC hardware on a signal handling level, - not just attached to it for some rudimentary control functions and audio post processing. The Flex-Radio SDR-1000 is just an example of the very basic (and early) beginnings for that future trend.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N4DFP on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I am sure the IC-7800 and the FT DX9000 are wonderful, desireable rigs. That said, it must also be said that many (dare I say MOST) Hams can only dream about such a rig. Furthermore it seems that the lowest priced all-band rig from any manufacturer starts at about $700.00.Many Hams are on small fixed or limited pensions that won't permit the purchase of even the lowest priced all band rig. I know I will get a flame or two telling me that if I can't afford the hobby I need to get out of it. That is not the point. I can buy good used equipment and stay in the game, but as more and more Hams content themselves with used equipment, fewer will be buying new equipment. Do you really think that Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood et al will continue building equipment for which there is no market? Yes, if you want a new Model 9,000,000 from whomever, we need to encourage the manufacturers to market more affordable equipment as well.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WW0H on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have to admit that when I saw the pictures of the Icom 7800 on their website, I was hoping / planning to buy one, IF the price was within my range. But at AES' price of $10,499, I can get a Yaesu FT 1000 MP MK V, FT 847, and a Quadra system and have money left over. Unless the Publisher's Clearinghouse van stops in front of my door in the near future, any 7800 I buy will be on eBay.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K0IZ on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This past summer I bought a KWM2A. Always wanted Collins, couldn't afford it back when new. $1150 in early 1960's (power supplies extra) translates into big 2004 bucks. So todays' expensive rigs will serve as dreams for most of us - just like Collins did many years ago.

The nice thing about the big-buck rigs is that, like with most electronic things, what is expensive one year becomes standard a few years later. So we all benefit, even if the closest most of us get to these rigs is the advertisements.

John

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KB9YUR on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

How about a $10,000 antenna system to go with the radios too ?!?

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NL7W on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Unless Yaesu, Kenwood and Icom's top-of-the-line rigs can complete with the Ten-Tec Orion in regards to performance and price, why even consider them?

The Orion is looking better and better all the time...

73.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KC0LTV on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Don't most hams like buttons?

Personally, I'd rather have direct access to features with physical buttons, knobs, and switches. It gives a radio identity and adds to the experience.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by VE3WGO on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It's nice to see ham radios finally getting the luxury equipment that so many other technology areas already have, such as photography, audio/music, TV/video, cameras, and computers, etc.

Ham radios with lots of operating conveniences and darn good looks are something we have waited too long for. Bring them on!

To all those hams posting here who sneered at the big radio companies' plans to introduce new rigs with lots of bells and whistles, I ask - just what are those bells and whistles that you think are frills? It takes more and more interference-reducing and spectrum monitoring capability each and every year it seems, with our ever-increasing interference-laden environments, especially at HF, but also in our VHF bands. Lots of spectrum polution, and we need advanced tools for it!

There are lots of hams in countries other than the USA where these premium rigs are not so expensive, because of their local exchange rate, where their currency hasn't tanked the way the US dollar has. So I hope the ham radio manufacturers can keep on producing interesting new radios, and we will keep buying them!

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W4CX on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

With all the challenges we have (dumb-down licensing, BPL, waning ham population), neither this, nor any other rig will improve our hobby. What's the big deal? 200watts. 400 watts..20kW..Who cares? I'll stick with my 15 year old FT-1000D and try to make an impact in other ways than padding the marketing machine.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N0RKX on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This is all one big test.
I'll call it the "gullibility" test.
The "Big Three" want to see just how gullible the ham community are. Everybody stand up and raise your hand if you think a rig with that kind of price tag is really that much better than anything else. A rig with 3X the price tag of the current peformance champ should have 3X times the performance. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

Everybody still standing with their hand in the air...........please pull the hook out.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KG5JJ on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Bells and Whistles may be had by utilizing the tool everyone on this website has in front of them; their computer.

Has anyone pushed how versatile modern computers are with the right hardware/software?

A veritable electronics laboratory at your fingertips!

Radios with built-in spectrum scopes/analyzers...who needs 'em?

My TS-2000 does everything I need in one box (Sky Command fiasco notwithstanding) and my computer takes-up ALL the slack I require elsewhere, when away from the electronics lab at work.

For casual operation, it's all I need. Others may feel vehemently opposed...to each his own.

73 KG5JJ (Mike)

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KT0DD on April 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N9DG suggests the future is in PC based / Flex Radio type systems. Well mixing radios and computers is NOT my bag, at least until OS's become 100% stable. How many times do we have to deal with DLL errors, lock-ups & restarts, viruses, worms etc. Even the new Windows XP is not without flaws, & The TT Orion has a few glitches still, although it's getting better all the time. Bill Gates & Co. has lots of room for improvement.

I'm staying with my older Omni 6+ & 570DG Kenwood, and wil not connect a confuser to either of them. For some, Kachina / Pegasus systems may be the thing, But I say keep some models of radio SEPARATE from computers. 73.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC5UP on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Gents:
Take a look at this:

http://www.rigpix.com/icom/ic7800.htm

In my earlier comments I wondered why one of the Big 3 hasn't taken the leap to a fully user-configurable rig that takes full advantage of the current technology. In the case of the IC-7800, the marketing strategy is plain to see. Big dollar radio. Scads of buttons and LED's. You could damn near turn out the lights in the room and fly the radio IFR with a panel like that. And, for the asking price, most of us would expect a front panel that just won't quit.

That's because we're thinking 'radio' and expect the new stuff to be just like the old stuff. Except newer, better, and maybe a fraction of a dB quieter.

Then one of those cute little switches goes intermittent, or a knob gets bumped and you wonder how come everything sounds a little 'odd' today. Instead of a dedicated processor that's run by a bank of knobs and switches, the display could have been twice the size and the front panel simplified to a few knobs with function buttons on three sides of the display.

Instead of menus, you get prompts next to each button. Press for 2 seconds and your options pop up. Tap, tap, tap and you cycle through the choices. Press again for 2 seconds and it stores the new setting. For pseudo-analog adjustments, you get a rocker switch that you use to scroll through the range. The stuff you tend to set and forget stays out of your way while the band and mode choices are on the bottom row where you have the most finger room. At this point you're letting the processor work for you instead of the other way around because you're telling the radio "This is how I prefer to work... Make it happen". That's the goal.

Want to configure the radio for a specific function, let's say CW contesting, and once you get the rig dialed in just the way you like it, store the whole sheebang as a preset configuration. The IC-7800 allows a flash card to be jacked into the front panel for storing your settings, but with standard RAM around $20 for a 64 meg stick, I really have to wonder why that needs to be done on an outboard card...?

Maybe when you visit a friend who just happens to have the same radio you can whip your preferences into the slot and feel at home. I can see that for commercial apps, but for Ham use? C'mon...

Anyway, the thought here is that there was a time when we home brewed the hardware and thousands of minds working toward common goals drove the technology forward. We can return to that, but instead of a soldering iron, the keyboard becomes the tool of choice. This is potentially a very exciting time for the hobby as damn near every stage of a modern 'radio' past the 2nd or 3rd IF is digitized and infinitely tweakable. The front ends are loaded with Varicaps, VCO's and PLL's so even the RF deck is potentially adjustable through software. None of this is blue-sky or expensive... It's just a case of realizing the potential of what can be done when you harness the same technology that makes it possible for you to read this message.

Note: None of this is intened as a slam against Icom or Yaesu. I've owned both, and my main HF rig is currently an IC-756 which I dearly love. I bought it because if offered the promise of breaking the mold of conventional design... Apparently I wasn't alone, as the rig sold very well. I just wish Icom would push further in that direction.

As for worries about too many 'Appliance Operators' or dumbed-down licensing, just remember that the license is a starting point. Not an end point. Open up the firmware in a full-digital rig and you might be amazed at what some of the keyboard jocks come up with. If you don't believe it, look at the web today and consider what's being done with streaming audio and video compared to five or ten years ago.

Sound and sight... Those are our modes.

What used to require thousands of dollars worth of hardware can now be done for a fraction of the cost because some geeks who weren't thinking 'radio' developed the tools to experiment, innovate and improve the web.

Why should Amateur Radio be any different?

- AC5UP

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KA7BTV on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'll stick with my older rigs, thank you. These newer radios are getting just like everything else in the modern world - over-inflated crap on steroids.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KC9ETP on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

< quote >
How many times do we have to deal with DLL errors, lock-ups & restarts, viruses, worms etc.
< /quote >

Err.... Not once

< quote >
Even the new Windows XP is not without flaws, & The TT Orion has a few glitches still, although it's getting better all the time. Bill Gates & Co. has lots of room for improvement.
</quote>

Well don't use windows then. You have a choice :)

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KC9EVO on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This is just like buying a BMW 740 you get what you pay for. If you want bells and whistles you will probably never use. This is the setup for you. You’ll never learn to use all its capabilities. Bragging rights go with the amount of money you spent. Some will buy it to collect dust. Why pay for something you will never use or understand.

I am new to the HAM sport but what keeps me wanting more is the amount of knowledge I gain by “doing it my self”. I still have not purchased my first HF rig but from doing my home work I want to get something I can get my hands in to and work on. So far I like the idea of the http://www.elecraft.com/k2_page.htm priced a bit high but I like the idea of building what I need. With a “you build it kit” you get exactly what you want and can add what ever feature you want… anything.

Am I wrong?

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KK7WN on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Years ago an Economist by the name of Thorstein Veblen wrote a delightful book tiitled " The Theory of the Leisure Class". The central observation was that the wealthy tend to engage in "conspicuous consumption" to draw attention to their elevated monetary position( which was supposedly a proxy for their greater social worth). To make the greatest impact it was desireable to spend large sums of money on things that had little practical use.For example, have a small pure bred dog that was nothing but an expensive noisemaker, clothes that were not durable and a wife who was incapable of physical work of any kind.Well it appears that extremely high priced Amateur radio transceivers are now about to become the latest vehicle for conspicuous consumption. Of course a $10000 dollar unit will not be 10 times as usefull as a $1000 unit. But that is the whole point.After all, shouldn't you be envied if you can afford to waste money? Look at the Humvee for example.It is very expensive but has an extremely low mechanical reliabilty rating and an ergonomic quality just about as poor as a combat vehicle, which of course it resembles. I suspect that sales of expensive Transceivers would falter if hams were not allowed to tell their on air contact which transceiver they were using.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KL7IPV on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

. Not being a contester, maybe I am missing something. Is it really so important that any radio have so many features and a price tag in the kilobucks? I have had many radios and the best of them were the Ten Tecs that used the Jones filters. I heard stuff that others didn't, including the $$$ ones. Now I have two IC-706s that fill all the need I have. Would I do so much better if I used a rig costing thousands more? Do they hear or talk THAT much differently? IS that difference worth so much? Who really notices if your are using an old TS-820 or a new FT-1000? Or do you TELL them to impress them with the amount the radio cost? Maybe it is time to step back and just look at what we really need to enjoy the hobby (service). I don't think you spending mega bucks more than I do will help you enjoy it more than I do. I may be wrong, but I'll just watch and see.
73
Frank
KL7IPV

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AA6YQ on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The model number on that meter picture looks like Photoshop hacking to me. There's no way a high-end HF radio would be SSB-only. No digital modes? Be serious.

This is likely Yaesu's attempt to minimize defections to the 7800.

We'll see.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KT0DD on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well Congrats KC9ETP. You are the first person I've heard of with a perfect OS and NO glitches at all. Good on ya if you have been convinced that Computers are the Alpha and Omega of future ham radio. That's the beauty of the hobby, something for everyone. As for me, I'll keep them separate, Windows, LINUX etc. It doesn't matter to me.

I recently heard a local school teacher was describing an Indian Teepee to his students as a "Perfect Structure", staying cool in summer, and warm in winter. He said scientists are amazed that such a structure could be built without aid of a computer. GET OVER IT PEOPLE! The teepee was around long before the computer, (and may be what we live in after computer technology helps destroy society.) We CAN live without computers! If anyrthing, they are dumbing us down. The human mind is still the best computer of all. We just dont use it enough anymore.

I really liked the comment of newer radios being nothing but over-priced crap on steroids. You're 100%correct sir. And with BPL coming down the pike, well, the only RF involved with Amateur Radio in the future may just be whats in your wall socket. 73

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KI4BNH on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

First, I'm guilty of the exact offense I'm about to describe:
I own a FT8900, a Kenwd 570DG and a TH-F6a

With that out of the way here's my point:

This hobby is full of flag wavin, God fearin folks who typically love this country. We probably cry buy American at our truck dealers as much as Hank Hill on the King of the Hill show.

Yet when our money meets the cash register, what do we buy? The glitz & ti_s of the import rigs over the simpler yet equal to better performing Ten-Tec. Pretty sad considering most reviews rate the Ten-Tec's and K2's at the top of most technical heaps.

It's a twisted Walmart mentality. Glitz & less dough out of pocket can seduce the most staunch flag waver.
As I grow a little older in the hobby, I'm starting to appreciate the specs & cleanliness of things like Orions and K2's.

Next time, I think I'll save my $$ a little longer and support my local radio mfgr AND get superior performance to boot.

Flamers will say X feature is critical to them and so forth. May be too... In that case, BUY it... I'm not a bloody trade isolationist. I'm just saying this is for most of us a performance hobby not a Christmas tree light show.

KI4BNH as much of a 'loves knobs/dials whore' as anyone...

Class warfare?

by AA6E on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Folks, give it a rest. People make choices about what to do with their money. For my taste, too many people are happy to buy $30K+ SUVs, big motorboats, etc. But I am driving around in a little Mystique.

So I bought an Orion recently, after 35 years in ham radio. I'd like to try the IC-7800, but I admit I couldn't spend that much now without raising a few eyebrows here at home.

Point is, people make choices about how to use their resources. Would you want it any other way? I'm glad to point out to the XYL how much cheaper ham radio is than serious boating or sports cars. (And she accepts that!)

Don't knock the high-end rigs. It's like PCs and cars; the new technology shows up there first, but trickles down into mainstream products after a few years.

-73, Martin

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W8JI on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Radio manufacturers have paid little if any attention to spectrial purity of modulation and close-spaced performance of receivers for many years now. I expect this will still go on in the new high-dollar radios, unless the ARRL and others wake up and start publishing occupied bandwidth of transmitters and close-spaced receiver performance data in plain language text that non-technical readers can understand.

In the past, most top-of-the-line radios had problems that could have been corrected for little or no increase in parts cost and not more than a few hours of initial engineering time, yet the problems were never addressed. As a matter of fact despite bad publicity about some radios manufacturers "copied and pasted" obvious and easily proven design shortfalls into newer models.

There is also misleading information circulating implying extreme IP's or dynamic ranges will let us "hear better". Quite frankly that is pure 100% bullcrap unless you run two radios on the same band at the same time, or have a neighbor within a mile or less who runs high power and operates the same band.

I live in a very quiet location, and have very large antennas. This is a worse-case condition. The receiver dynamic range required here at my QTH on the worse-case bands under worse-case conditions is about 85dB.

On the other hand the keyclicks and splatter from most modern radios is only down 30-50dB on adjacent communications channels. I can hear rigs like TS2000's and 756PRO's (being operated properly)spitting weakly 10kHz down from the operating frequency, and in periods of high activity my noise floor increases about 10dB from the accumulation of hundreds of transmitters with problems.

This is with a receiver having OVER 110 dB IM3DR and a TOI of almost +50dBm. It shows up on a test bench, it shows up on the air. (I have some stuff at www.w8ji.com that was largely inspired by Bill Fisher, W4AN. It was Bill, not I, who convinced be enough is enough.)

If manufacturers really wanted to do something to increase sales through increased performance, they need to make transmitters clean and cure the easily cured pathetic close-spaced receiver performance issues.

If the want to make our bands more usable, they need to clean up the odd-order IM in transmitters and move our radios up away from class-C performance areas into levels easily accomplished by Collins and others in the 50's. (The problem back then was good receiver DR, not transmitters, in high end gear.) The technolids who get inside radios and turn up power controls to jack up the output need to have their knuckles cracked with a ruler or to go back to CB and peak up their radios. These rigs are bad enough at rated power.

Right now manufacturers give us the very minimum they can get by with and still have a warm and fuzzy review, while technically many or most radios fail FCC emission bandwidth requirenments for adjacent channel interference. (It is NOT required they pass this, so they don't care. The burden falls on the USER.)

I hope everyone watches carefully what manufacturers do in the common radios sold, and learns enough to avoid smoke and mirrors.

If they can't get a basic modulation method like simple off-and-on keying correct, I don't expect they will do well with more complex issues. All of the time better spent making sure the radio works as well as possible might be wasted on a meaningless specification that would have no effect at all on what you hear in the shack, except for the pathological warp of making you *think* you hear an improvement.

Look at any test data closely, and you'll see where the problems really are. Other than obvious and easily cured design shortfalls in receivers, it is transmitters (and linear amplifers) that need the work.

There are one shining light in SSB and one on CW. The Yaesu FT1000MKV allows class A SSB operation, and is very clean. The TenTec Orion, with the latest firmware, has no clicks at all on adjacent communications channels that I can detect.

So it can be done, and it can be done for a lot less than $8000. We just need to motivate the ARRL and the manufacturers to start being plain and clear about how these things we call transceivers (and amplifers) really work. There is no reason at all to have -30dB PEP range third or fith order products on SSB or keyclicks, or 50 to 70db close-spaced dynamic range in receivers, and 99% of us sure the heck don't need 40dB IP3. You won't hear a bit of difference with that unless you have multiple transmitters on the same band operating near you (within a mile or so), so save your money.

73 Tom

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"This is not news. That picture has been floating around the internet for over a month now."

Talk to eham about that. I e-mailed the article to them several weeks ago; it took them this long to "approve it" and get it up.

Meade K4CMD

RE: Class warfare?

by K4CMD on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Don't knock the high-end rigs. It's like PCs and cars; the new technology shows up there first, but trickles down into mainstream products after a few years."

Just an observation relating to the above comment I had while reading the responses to this article this morning:

We always hear the kind of comment like the one I quoted above. Yet look at the current crop of entry-level rigs from our beloved "big three." Kenwood only recently got rid of the 12-year-old TS-50S and brought out the TS-480, which is basically a re-boxed TS-570D -- which is 7-year-old technology. Icom offers the IC-718, which has been out for how long? And is it really much more than a re-paneled IC-735, again, 12-year-old technology? And Yaesu? FT-840? How long has that radio been out? Since the early 1990s at least.

We seem to carry a torch for new technology trickling down to the lowly end of the product line, but alas, it never has and likely never will.

Well JI, what CAN we do?

by KA4KOE on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

JI:

Excellent report. The question is, is there anything us guys who own TS-2000s, 756PROs, and the like can do to help it along, other than running the radio as advertised and NOT overdriving, etc.

tnx

Philip

Eham articles

by KA4KOE on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K4CMD:

Eham is quite liberal in what they publish online here. Expect a one month + wait time. Its just that there are a lot of people ahead of you submitting stuff and we all have to wait our turn. Cut Clinton AD7RG some slack...he does a good job and has published everything I've sent him, some good, some bad, some not so good, depending on who you ask.

P

RE: Eham articles

by K4CMD on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KA4KOE:

Just responding to someone who put out a flame for this being "old news." I understand eham's system. Been using it for years.

73

RE: Eham articles

by KA4KOE on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

CMD:

Roger on that one.

P

RE: Eham articles

by KB2FCV on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I've heard rumors of it.. but I haven't seen anything on the Yaesu website. Sure it's not a photoshopped "dream"? I guess we'll find out at Dayton!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition? April Fools

by LA1SJA on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Now let's see.
Hmmm. Single source of information, - the April issue of a Japanese periodical.
Everyone else qouting each other.
500 watts in a transceiver box? Last time Yaesu did that with transistors they built a case as large as the FL-7000 linear PA.
Replace the long gone FT-1000D, not the more recent models.
A Single Sideband machine.
Hmmm. Someone beeing fooled here ?
Guess we will not have to wait long to know. Dayton should tell whether there is anything real to it.
Have fun.
Svein, LA1SJA.

very high end radios - been around a long time!

by NJ0E on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

in 1938, hallicrafters introduced the ht-4, a 400 watt
transmitter. there is an article about it in april qst.
the 1938 cost (if i remember correctly) was $700.

adjust that for inflation (using this web site):
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html

$700 in 1938 -> $9135 in 2003

so there's nothing new here; there have long been
"status" rigs for the well-heeled. this isn't any
"sea change in amateur radio".

likewise, there have also always been much more
modest apparatus.

i am thankful that the modest units are as nice as
they are; i'm *very* happy with mine (second hand
ten-tec omni) and don't envy anyone else their
"dream rig".

vy 73,
scott nj0e

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W9RPE on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hello out there. Has anyone considered this to be someone's idea of a joke? That's a pretty poor ad page if you ask me. After a brief search I find most of the rumors on the DX-9000 on the "free bander" sites such as Suger Delta. Wouldn't the dream radio of any of those folks ONLY xmit in SSB and have an out of the box output power of 500 watts? Is this their idea of a dream radio?

The Yaesu site has nothing on this beast and we are led to believe there is alrdy some sort of brochure on it. If we were all fish, most of you guys would be on ice by now.

Paleeeeeeeease!!!!

Ron

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AA8X on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I'll just wait for Kenwood and Yaesu to offer their latest radios. I know HF rigs from these two companies are well designed and engineered the first time and won't require three of more new versions in an attempt get it right.
Bob, AA8X

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Yet when our money meets the cash register, what do we buy? The glitz & ti_s of the import rigs over the simpler yet equal to better performing Ten-Tec. Pretty sad considering most reviews rate the Ten-Tec's and K2's at the top of most technical heaps."

Name one Ten Tec rig that will do crossband repeat?

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W5HTW on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Uh, why do I need cross band repeat?

My modern rig is a nearly 7 year old Icom 706. All the bells and whistles are between my ears (and it gets noisy in there sometimes! Despite my internal filters!)

Object: Communicate by radio. Ah, that is accomplished with my Drake B line.

Object: Impress other hams. Naw, I'm too old to care.

Object: Spend gobs of money. Well, I could use a new house. And a really nice boat, though I have no water here in the desert. OK, make that a 1968 Harley.

Pay ten grand for a radio? I haven't spent even half that much on ham radio, total, in my 47 years in the hobby. If I stay in it another 47 years I still won't spend that much.

How much are bells going for these days? How about whistles?

73
Ed

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W0FG on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Mention was made of the KWM-2. In 1963 when I was first licensed, a KWM-2 was $1150. A new Volkswagen was $1295. By those standards, a $10K rig doesn't seem quite so pricey, and a $499 FT817 is unbelievable.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KG6AMW on April 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with Ed. Sounds like an awful alot of money for a rig. I'll stick with my Yaesu 920 and if I get the bug for a hot rig, I'l buy either a used Orion or Yaesu FT1000D.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K0EX on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

A $60,000 car doesn't make one a better driver, nor will a $5000 set of golf clubs put any one of us on the PGA next season.

If one is a good operator, we all know that the majority of the ability comes from the equipment God put in our noggin... not from some $10,000 box on the table.

There'll be people who think they just gotta have this rig. And, they'll be convinced they're a much better HAM because of it. As one person put it earlier, "shame on us" if we support such a ludicrous gadget.

-Mark K0EX

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KB2CPW on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N2DFP hit on something:

1980's brought us the serial port and the computer aided ham radio.
1990's still have em
2000's still have em.... :-P

If they wanted us to evolve with such things, the mid to late 1990s should have brought USB ports on radios.

The 2000's should have brought firewire or bluetooth/wireless radio control. Serial ports are getting scarce these days.

I cant recall ever having a rig hooked to my computer. Ever!! ... Why? They are too busy trying to sell us expensive cables when even the most mundane computer devices these days are running 1394, USB or bluetooth technology.

Anyway, things must change in this dept IMHO.. Thats why computer control of gear hasnt caught on..

As far as 10k radios, I think it was Ben Franklin who once said "there is an ass for every seat" (if he didnt, he should have, or at least be the guy we attribute that phrase to, ya know, out of respect for him since he was so smart)
I can see buying some milspec gear for top dollar or some rare piece you've been drooling over, We all do it in one form or another.
Heck,I am even contemplating the Orion myself, you cant beat a rig that gets better and better thru firmware updates and has stellar customer service behind it to boot.
Score a download from Ten Tec = Poof, 60 meters!! Hey you want AM in your Pegasus? Poof! You got it! OH shoot! We forgot a band stacking register, poof!! Here's the fix dude..

Best of all, No wacky cables to buy, since the Omni 6 you used any old ratty computer cable, no silly cables with nutty connectors like the ones used on the space shuttle..
Order an Orion now and get a best of Slim Whitman CD vol 1 and some corn mash smuggled in with your order!! Just kidding.. You can ask em though, cant hurt.. Regards.. Richy N2ZD

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by VE3TMT on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KA7BTV hit the nail right on the head. Let's cram as many knobs, buttons and meters on the front, make it bigger than the other guys and charge, what I think, is an absolute ridiculous price for any amateur gear. I don't care if it fetches my paper for me in the morning.. NO radio is worth that much. If it cost me $11,000 worth of interference fighting features, I'd find a new hobby. But sadly there will always be those in the hobby who have to have the best of the best, even if it is only to hear themselves brag on the air "rig here is the IC-7800".
I will stick with my time-proven TS850. Instead of the big three competing for a market share in a range most hams can't afford, why not put out a new radio most of us can. I don't need a radio with USB, just one that works when I expect it to. And an $11,000 radio doesn't guarantee that. Everyone remember the problems with the FT-817's and 746PRO's. I can think of better things to spend eleven grand on.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KA4KOE on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If one follows the law of diminishing returns, he will see that it will not apply to this radio.

Performance is not a one to one curve, ie twice the cost equals twice the performance.

The curve is probably more asymptotic in nature.

Anyway, 10K is way too much. I spent a nice tidy sum on a used 756PRO and it does everything I ask of it.

Ergo, me no buyee 7800-ee.

Philip

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If you think that $10,000 is too much to pay for a radio, then don't buy one. But stop throwing a temper tantrum over it. If Icom wants to market a $10,000 radio, more power to them. They obviously believe that it will have a market. More power to the hams that buy them. I would get one if I could afford it, but I can't right now, so I won't.

So stop your whining and go back to driving your Yugo.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KA4KOE on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

0P:

Whats with the 'tude dude?

I don't drive a Yugo, BTW

by KA4KOE on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No need to be so strident in your reply to my post OM.

Also, there's no need to behave in a public forum like the south end of a north bound equine. We're all friends here, right?

Relax, its only radio.

RE: High end radios

by G3RZP on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NJ0E hit the nail on the head. Back in 1948, a 75A receiver was $380 and a matching transmitter from Collins about $1400. Ham radio has never been cheaper than it is today, but whether a $10k radio gives enough 'bang for the buck' is a somewhat personal matter.

Me, well, I'm cheap. My new homebrew autotune amplifier with a 4CX1000 is costing me around 30 cents a watt.......it could be less if I compromised on a few things, like marginally rated power transformers!

RE: High end radios

by W3ULS on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Interesting thread.

President Bush recently promised in a campaign speech to an audience in Florida that when reelected he would be delivering high-speed internet access to the masses over power lines ASAP. Since the White House already is taking credit for it, this FCC initiative is unstoppable.

So what happens to HF reception, using either high-end or low-end radios, in a large-scale BPL rollout? All these comments may not be appropo then.

Aside: W8JI says a -30dB 3d-order IMD result on SSB transmissions is not (or barely) good enough. What about the bunch of "new" radios out there that are in the mid-20s (and this is by the flawed ARRL standard)?

73,
John, W3ULS

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N9FIK on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This thread sounds just like the election cycle. Don't like something someone did or what they stand for, shout him down and bash him.

ICOM is trying to push the envelope. Obvioiusly someone at ICOM is trying to serve some "percieved" market niche. Let them. If you self-select out of that niche, that is your option.

If there is no tangible difference in the IC-7800 vs. a rig one third, one fourth or one fifth the price, then it is being marketed for status. A $60,000 car may not make you a better driver, but it does offer options and an overall platform that makes driving more comfortable because it is serving a different market all together.

Tie this in with the shift in the ham population with respect to the licensing. The equipment is following in a logical fashion. It is being designed for those who know and do a lot less with respect to radio theory and practical knowledge. After the generally available rig becomes "sealed" so to speak and generally closed, the next step, imho, is to up-scale it.

Hopefully the general ham population will respond by saying incremental performance offered isn't worth the incremental cost and vote with their wallet. Then maybe their development departments will focus on performance vs. glitz. The other side is if ICOM operates their facilities efficiently and can assemble to order a high end rig as required, they can skim extra margin -- they would be foolish to not do so.

This can be viewed as a good thing. Why? If it flops, then manufacturers will get the signal that performance is important. If it is a success, where do you go? There are only so many features you can add before performance works it way to the top of the list again - it may be a while, but markets work as they work.

If people buy it to have it...then it is a status item not unlike a Mercedes or Bentley and it will be a long time before performance works its way to the forefront.

-mike

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N9FIK on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

This thread sounds just like the election cycle. Don't like something someone did or what they stand for, shout him down and bash him.

ICOM is trying to push the envelope. Obvioiusly someone at ICOM is trying to serve some "percieved" market niche. Let them. If you self-select out of that niche, that is your option.

If there is no tangible difference in the IC-7800 vs. a rig one third, one fourth or one fifth the price, then it is being marketed for status. A $60,000 car may not make you a better driver, but it does offer options and an overall platform that makes driving more comfortable because it is serving a different market all together.

Tie this in with the shift in the ham population with respect to the licensing. The equipment is following in a logical fashion. It is being designed for those who know and do a lot less with respect to radio theory and practical knowledge. After the generally available rig becomes "sealed" so to speak and generally closed, the next step, imho, is to up-scale it.

Hopefully the general ham population will respond by saying incremental performance offered isn't worth the incremental cost and vote with their wallet. Then maybe their development departments will focus on performance vs. glitz. The other side is if ICOM operates their facilities efficiently and can assemble to order a high end rig as required, they can skim extra margin -- they would be foolish to not do so.

This can be viewed as a good thing. Why? If it flops, then manufacturers will get the signal that performance is important. If it is a success, where do you go? There are only so many features you can add before performance works it way to the top of the list again - it may be a while, but markets work as they work.

If people buy it to have it...then it is a status item not unlike a Mercedes or Bentley and it will be a long time before performance works its way to the forefront.

-mike

RE: Class warfare?

by NJ0E on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K4CMD:

> We seem to carry a torch for new technology trickling
> down to the lowly end of the product line, but alas,
> it never has and likely never will.

i don't agree. i can easily recall when a mainstream,
workaday hf rig covered 80, 40, 20, 15, and 10 meters,
and had an analog dial (think kenwood ts-520, hw101).

the higher end rig (kenwood ts-820) added 160 meters,
digital readout, and if shift.

today, almost *any* multiband hf rig includes 160 meters
and if shift. and it's difficult to find a rig without
digital frequency readout. and most rigs have built-in
electronic keyers also.

RE: Class warfare?

by K4CMD on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

My first rig, a TS-530SP that I bought new in 1984, had IF shift, 160 meters and all the WARC bands. 20 years ago. So there's been no new technology in 20 years, huh?

RE: Crass warfare?

by K4JSR on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NE0P Said,
"So stop your whining and go back to driving your Yugo."

I didn't see any whining. I saw a TROLL!
So, not only will I say "no thanks" to the 7800,
I will also say, "NOPE" to NEOP. And instead of a YUGO, I'll just drive a Dodge NEOP! :-D
Bye! Bye! Bad guy! 73, Cal K4JSR

RE: Class warfare?

by NJ0E on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

well, the kenwood ts-520 i purchased new in 1977 didn't
have if shift, 160 meters, digital frequency readout,
the warc bands (for obvious reasons), so those features
had migrated *into* entry level rigs during the era
1977->1984 era.

today, many entry level units (think ic-718) include
afsk (rtty), general coverage receivers, memories,
scanning, built-in electronic keyer, built-in swr meter,
am. the alinco dx-77 includes fm and two vfo's.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

What gets me is this class warfare attitude: "If I can't afford an Icom 7800, no one else should be allowed to have one either."

Since Yaesu discontinued the FT1000D, there is no other radio that does true dual receive, and puts out 200 watts. In addition, it does 6 meters, and will send and receive RTTY. It also claims a 3rd order Intercept Point of +40dbm. We will have to wait for the QST review to see on that one, but there isn't another radio that comes close (including the Orion). This truely is a radio that is head and shoulders above the rest.

Now most of us wouldn't have a need for such a radio, because we are not into hard core contesting (myself included), but some hams will. If Icom wants to market a radio to them, what business is it of yours? Did they stop making the 718 or the 706MKIIG? No, so you aren't losing out on anything.

And people may buy a 7800 for more reasons than vanity. Some people really do understand radio performance, and realize what this radio will do that others won't.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC5UP on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W3ULS wrote:

"President Bush recently promised in a campaign speech to an audience in Florida that when reelected he would be delivering high-speed internet access to the masses over power lines ASAP. Since the White House already is taking credit for it, this FCC initiative is unstoppable."

This November I'll be sending a small message to Washington expressing my views on BPL, foreign policy, the so-called jobless recovery and a host of other issues.

Unstoppable it ain't.

You want a policy change at the FCC? Make a regime change in the White House first... ;-]

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

So he's gonna be delivering it to the masses, huh? He didn't by chance happen to mention there'll be a steep FEE involved in this "deliverance," did he?

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WW0H on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

In my first comment on this post, I said that I was more interested in getting a number of pieces of equipment, rather than spend $10,500 for the Icom. However, if we followed much of this thread posted here, no one would buy Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, or any of the expensive cars, because a less expensive one would accomplish the same purpose. While I still think that if I had $11,000 to spend on gear, I would focus first on my antenna system and then on a number of less expensive components; but if the resources were available, I am interested in that new Icom. Now, where do I get the funds?

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

If only Algore hadn't invented the internet, and Clinton hadn't promised to wire all schools to the internet, BPL wouldn't be a problem today.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KC8VWM on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>> I am interested in that new Icom. Now, where do I get the funds ? <<<

Uh..., Try out for that Millionaire T.V. Show and Cash out when you reach $10,000 ?

Then again, I would just cash out at the 100 dollar question and buy a ticket to Hamvention and simply look and drool all over the front panel of the radio.

Charles - KC8VWM

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KE4ZHN on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

No radio is worth this kind of money! I dont care if it even gets up and cooks you breakfast in the morning. Amateur radio is a hobby is it not? To spend this much money for just a transceiver is totally insane.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NN6EE on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with most out here that the frigg'n "Super Radio" isn't worth the money!!! I've presently got the IC-756PRO and it's a great rig @ $2.8K, if Icom had any brains their IC-7800 should have been offered at $5.6K. The volume of sales that they can expect with their proposed price will be MINISCULE at best!!!

Secondly with the proposed proliferation of "BPL" what would anybody want with a $10K radio???

Jim/ee

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W4AMP on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The picture is obviously a hoax. Ask Yaesu, they know nothing about that rig.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N3OP on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I do not understand all the debate about the price for the IC-7800. This is a "top of the line" rig that replaces the IC-781, and it is not marketed to the average ham. Rather it is marketed to governmental agencies and top contesters and DXers who want the 'best'.

Icom understand market demands, and they know that this price is out of the range of most hams. However, they believe they can make a profit with this rig; otherwise, they would not have designed and manufactured this rig. If Icom sells 5000 units worldwide, they will generate over $50 million in sales. I am sure the U.S. federal government will procure 100's of these rigs for the numerous agencies they control.

As for the performance of this rig, I believe the amateur radio community will determine this over time. I understand that the IC-7800 already has flaws such as not including the capability to update the firmware via the Internet and not offering the capability for logging programs to read the sub receiver or split mode. Worst than that, the IP3 spec is very suspect, and I know that more problems will be exposed as more units get in the ham community.

Earlier in this thread, someone stated that since this rig cost 3 times the cost of the Orion, it should perform 3 times better. Do you really buy that premise? Think about it! A top of the line Corvette cost around $62,000, and a top of the line Porsche 911 GT2 costs over $190,000. Using this person's premise, the Porsche should be three times better. Yes the Porsche is better, but not three times better.

In the future, I think the price will drop, and more hams will be able to afford this rig. Hopefully competition with be the catalyst that will drive the price down below the $4.5K range over the next 4-5 years.

73,

Reggie
www.n3op.com

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by G4VGO on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Another Yaesu CW CLICK MACHINE????? Another bad NB?????

When will they learn?????

Bob 9V1GO G4VGO

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WB9JOX on April 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

guess we could say this about all products that cost way too much. We MUST BE INSANE to purchase them.Hey some one has to do it.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

IMO,for that kind of money the RX should be as good as my HARRIS-350K COMM/MIL. HF TRANSCIEVER.

The HARRIS is 1986 tecnology. No Bells and whistles, but the RX is simply in another class than either my Drake tr-7 and kenwood ts-850.

I,would also expect to see full sofware upgadable circuits.

OK, I will take 16bit or better DSP for one IF. However I would expect to see a selection of real mechanical filters in there too.(the usual a 2.3SSB, 6KHZ for AM and other modes,and a 400HZ for cw)

250W or greater 48 Volt mosfet output in the TX.
The SSB DSP RF speech processor shoulf give me the equavalent RF output of 600W.

THE ANTENNA tuner should tune 10:1 loads.

BTW You can but a mil spec HARRIS with 400W amp and tuner for about $4000(decommissioned) Still in airforce use.

I know what i can get for 8000-11000 commercail.
ICOM and YEASU, you have something to prove!

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I have ben on 20M phone greatly. One would be shocked by how many hams have down deposites on these rigs now!

Hey DRAKE wake up! You can modify one of your commercial rigs.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Another Yaesu CW CLICK MACHINE????? Another bad NB????? When will they learn?????"

Okayyy, let's be fair ...

"Another Icom TIME BOMB????? Another bad DISPLAY????? When will THEY learn?????

:)

(Learn WHAT, by the way?)

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AC0X on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

NE0P said:

>If only Algore hadn't invented the internet, and
>Clinton hadn't promised to wire all schools to the
>internet, BPL wouldn't be a problem today.

Ah..well... first, Al Gore never said he "invented" the internet. If you research the quote, he was talking about "helping create it" by sponsoring and helping legislation that funded and facilitated it.

And Clinton's promise to "wire all schools to the Internet" isn't the cause of BPL. It's been discussed here that there are many other better and even probably cheaper ways to get Internet acccess. If you must be political, please allow me: BPL rests on the feet of George W. Bush. It was his FCC nominees that have proven to be so politically driven and so blatantly influenced by narrow special interests that they're the ones that ignore all evidence and common sense that they become "cheerleaders" for a dirty and backward technology as BPL. And this November, although hams will of course take many items into account when voting (most not ham related, of course), they'd be well advised to consider what this administration has proposed to do to the future of Amateur Radio.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by G8KHS on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Richy N2ZD got it in one! What is a serial port doing as a primary interface on a rig in 2004?

As an example, Kenwood, I couldn't believe it when the TS2000 was launched, and they STILL put serial on the TS480!

When I was working at Racal communications in the 80's & 90's, the receivers and transmitters had network cards in them.

How much would it cost to put a 10/100 port on rig? Not a lot, Just look at any laptop.

Who will be the first to offer this technology in the ham market? Beats me, but my bet is with the U.S.(Don't let me down)

Great debate guys, I just love it!!

All the best to you all, John G8KHS.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KB7YOU on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I think a serial port is a good interface to use. It's simple, common and requires no drivers and works across all OS's and hardware platforms. Plus you can almost always figure out the control protocols being used if they are not published.

Ethernet would be nice if the rigs had built in http servers for control. But even in this case we have to rely on the manufacturer to create a decient app. With serial port based control any programmer can create control programs for the rig.

Chris
KB7YOU

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K6AX on April 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Haven't we gone too far"?

$10K HF radios
$50K SUVs
$500 cell phones

I think so. Value will always be a part of my purchasing equation, therefore would never buy a 7800. I make a good salary, but was laid off for a year, and I re-calibrated what a dollar is really worth to me. To each his own. 73's...

Tim
K6AX

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K1XV on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Could you imagine buying an IC-7800 for almost $11K, and a few weeks later, they come out with the IC-7800 Mark II?

I would never buy a radio in this price range unless it was totally updatable by downloading new firmware to the transceiver, preferably through a USB port.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4JSR on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hey XV, Follow conventions, sir!
Except for 60 Meters, from 40 Meters down you would
have to load that data in a LSB port! ;-D
On that I think I'll just shut up and go to bed.
Good night every body!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KY6R on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Its not the radio - its what you can do with it that counts. I'm more impressed with DX-pedition ops who seem to be able to run huge pileups and give a "new one" to many. Some of the best dx-peds used radios that cost less than $1000.

Having said that - the Orion's price does look "low" in comparison. So does Linux as compared with Windows (hi hi).

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well you guys, the FT-DX9000 is NOT "vaporware"! The same ad I posted in the original article here currently occupies the inside back cover of the May issue of QST!

Interesting change though -- where the ad I referenced clearly shows "SSB Transceiver" on the panel, the ad in QST, which shows the same two meters, has "HF Transceiver" emblazoned below it.

Should be an interesting Dayton!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N4ARI on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K1XV got it right!
ANY radio without user upgradeable firmware is planned obsolescence in a couple years.
I'll stick with my Orion, big amp, and great antenna system. I'll still have money to take a cruise and have a rig worth something in 5 years.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by G0GQK on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Tell you one thing, Icom will be lucky to sell three in the UK at £6,500.! Perhaps they are trying to claw back losses they have incurred in repairing the ill fated IC 746 Pro in the US.

PS. Cars are pretty cheap these days in the US, you could be driving round in a flashy new silver BMW for that money !

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W5WJP on April 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yeasu must be planning on a great unveiling at Dayton. They have deep sixed the FT-920. I was looking around and most dealers are out of stock and Gigaparts says it was discontinued. What a shame! Drop a good solid rig that most of us could afford for something that most of us will never be able to get by the XYL. As for the IC-7800, maybe, after I hit the Mega-Bucks lottery......twice.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4YBB on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

10K+ Radios, I think NOT! I started saving for a ICOM 756 Just after they were announced. I finally saved up enough to get a 756 but by then the 756 was now the 756 PRO II. It is a nice radio but I think I will keep my old vacuum tube Collins gear. I consistantly get better signal reports and I can work on it when something does go wrong. The ICOM has to go back to ICOM.

Hello ICOM, Ah-Chooo and Kenmore, we need good straight foreward radios, not these overloaded with bells and whistles super fancy megabuck monsters that require a years income and your left leg just to own.There are ways to make good radios cheap or have you gone the way of the greedy oil companies?

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N2MG on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The "SSB Transceiver" and "SingleSidebander" references are red herrings as far as we are concerned. Yaesu has been using those terms back at least to the days of the FT-101 (1974?). Probably some kind of "CB" marketing hype.

Anyway, the radio is indeed advertised on the Cover III of May 2004 QST, but so little is shown...

I'll look for it at Dayton.

Mike N2MG

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Y'all keep in mind a coupla things:

(1) The Yaesu's price hasn't even been hinted at, anywhere.

(2) We don't know if this radio is a competitor for the IC-7800. Hell, it may be a new mobile rig for all we know.

Let's not judge Yaesu using Icom as the example. Let's wait and see what they've got here before we start making assumptions on performance and affordability!

As for me, I'm hoping Yaesu has got an IC-7800 competitor here, and they've managed to knock a couple of kilobucks off the price of the Icom -- making the Icom and its early buyers assume the appearance of egg-faced losers!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N8FVJ on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Interesting. A $200 TS-520S can communicate on HF to about 95-98% copy of these super rigs. Granted, no WARC.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K4CMD on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

So make it a $300 TS-530S, and you've gotcher WARC bands.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

heck, for $11,000 i WOULD BUY 2 REALLY GOOD RIGS.

I would be the TEC TEC ORIEN, for about $4000.

I would have money left to buy a HARRIS-350K, a 1.6-30mhz SSB/CW/AFSK/AM rig.TTRANSCEIVER
Romoved from mil. spec duty for $2500.
I could then buy 2 used ts-850's and use those as a combo.

I would have money left to buy a mil. spec. RACAL RX.

I would still have money left to computer interface
The TEN TEC ORIEN with the RACAL.

I would have one heck of a nice shack!

Unless A rigmaker gives me a 300W MOSFET output.
Absolute dsp/if/rf software upgrades, the option of using 8 pole
XTAL filters 300hz,1.7khz,2.3khz,6khz, Dual sythesiszers. Manual twin slope passband tuning.

For that kind of money I would like a rig with large user field replaceable modules. An AIL like system that diagnosis the radio down to the bad madule(HARRIS and other commercial rigs have that)

I have to be fair, I just got a HARRIS 350K. It is still in use by the armed services. it is being phased out.

You can buy the HARRIS rigs for under 2000 dollars, working. They have a minimum of feaures. However you see all those fancy features are not needed.
I found the IF XTAL filters to be triple the size
of those in my Kenwood TS-850.
Just plain receiving ANY signal sounded better.
Signals I could just barely here on my DRAKE TR-7, came in loud and clear on the HARRIS.

All I can say I am impressed with mil. spec. rigs.
That 11,000 buck ICOM better sound as good!!!!!!!!

I do haew to say one thing
The Mil. Spec. Harris did cost the US GVT 20K when thsy first came out.

It not until I started messing around with mil.spec.
rigs, did I see rigs that CAN be repaired by the owner.

ICOM 11,000 BUX, THAT RIG BETTER BE MIL.SPEC AND USER
SERVICABLE

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Hello ICOM, Ah-Chooo and Kenmore, we need good straight foreward radios, not these overloaded with bells and whistles super fancy megabuck monsters that require a years income and your left leg just to own.There are ways to make good radios cheap or have you gone the way of the greedy oil companies?"

Then go buy an Icom 718, A Yaesu FT840, or a Kenwood TS50. All of these are very reasonably priced and have the basic features you want.

Just because Icom and Yaesu decide to market a high end radio doesn't mean that they are no longer selling other less expensive radios.

Geez! You would think we lived in North Korea or Cuba the way some of you think that companies should be controlled in what they can or can't sell. If you can't afford it, don't buy it, but don't ruin it for those who can.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WB9JOX on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Some one on eham asked me why I would buy a radio thats going to fail.He must have ESP. Anything we buy has a chance of failure thats the chance we take and besides thats why we have warranties.Besides I really enjoy Ham Radio and buying radios makes me happy.I could find other ways of spending the dough , but its my choice and Im not hurting anyone. Besides Icom has really made some excellant radios. As for price ,you get what you pay for.Simple as that.You have a choice on what you buy and I dont influence anyone on what to buy.And Albert if you are reading this have a good day and 73's my friend. God Bless .

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K5UJ on April 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The photo found at the URL at the top of the article that started this whole thread is the inside rear cover of the May QST, except that the one in QST is in English.

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AB7UW-MONTANA on April 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

For ten grand I could purchase a reallllllllllly tall tower and stack at least 3 over 3 on 20 meters and still have money left over to buy another used rig. Think about it. Vaughn -N1XV ex AB7UW

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by AF4BH on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

$10000+ is just not the end spending on this radio. It is like driving a Hummer, or a BMW, you just cannot settle on regular gas, and 2 pairs of tires from tire discounters. You would have to spend 100+ a month to get it hand cleaned and well waxed. Anything less is just a compromise because you have to have something to show for.

I think that having just a tower and a few mono banders are just compromising these top-dog rigs. You need to have arrays of towers and antennas to really feel the punch of the signal. But more towers and antennas translate into acreage of property. A 6000+ sq ft mansion should be called for. You can't just live in a double-wide on a 5 acre lot while hamming with a 10K+ radio. That just won't match.

Unless you mount your hamsticks outside the balcony of your apartment, then lie about your QTH. That’s another story.

No, I am not jealous of what others can have. Actually, I am pretty happy for them if they can afford these things. I just feel sorry for the radio if the owners have to end up compromising them.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N6KEK on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

$ 10,000+ and it won't have 220 MHz !

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W4PA on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>You can't just live in a double-wide on a 5 acre lot while hamming with a 10K+ radio. That just won't match. <<

But you can live in a double-wide and have a brand-new $35,000 pickup truck parked in front of it. After all, we are in the south! :-) Scott W4PA

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K1CJS on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Icom understand market demands, and they know that this price is out of the range of most hams. However, they believe they can make a profit with this rig; otherwise, they would not have designed and manufactured this rig."

Rather this, "Icom understands the potential market, hams who want the newest, fanciest rigs even if the cost is way overinflated." Sure they can make a profit out of it. A few hundred dollars worth of parts and assembly and they charge over $10,000. for it? The profit on just one would be in the neighborhood of 2000%.

Darn right they would make a profit. Here is the perfect example of the "dumbing down" of ham radio--manufacturers who will make these so called dream rigs knowing there are plenty of 'status seeking' and 'don't have a clue' hams who would run out and get the newest rig just to be able to say they have it.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K1CJS on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Oh, and I should have also said the same about Kenwood and Yaesu--they'll put together their version just to get a piece of the profits.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N8IK on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

K4JSR - that's funny!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N7BES on April 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AMEN!!

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by NE0P on April 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"For ten grand I could purchase a reallllllllllly tall tower and stack at least 3 over 3 on 20 meters and still have money left over to buy another used rig."

Suppose you already have a 150 foot tower with a 6 over 6 on 20 meters? What are you going to spend your money on next?

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by W2IRT on April 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Another disturbing facet of this type of hyperpriced equipment is that if they do, in fact, sell reasonably well, the manufacturers will see it as a justification to price more modest rigs in the range of the Orion.

In my opinion, a new radio that's a modest performer is fairly priced in the $1500-$2000 range (still beyond me, but fair nevertheless). A more entry-level radio is fairly priced at about $850 to $1200.

If the top-of-the-line suddenly gets goosed by $7500 in one fell swoop ($3500 Orion to $11,000 Icom), what's to stop the bean counters at Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu, etc, from setting the bar higher exponentially for everyone?

It will take me at least 3-4 years to put enough aside for an Orion. Believe me, when I finally have enough to do that I don't want to be faced with entry level radios in the $2k range and the Orion (or its equivalent at that point) bumped up to $5k, $6k or beyond.

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by X-WB1AUW on April 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Pretty funny, people complaining about a product offered for sale.

I like my little black boxes (Drake C-Line).

In a beginning marketing course, the instructor asked—which person is happiest? The one who researches rigs, and buys an IC 718 from a local dealer? The one who researches all the rigs and buys a Ten Tec Orion (from Ten Tec)? The one who calls a BIG West Coast dealer, and “mail-orders” the most expensive HF rig they sell, the FTdx 9000?

Answer: they all were. Each person got exactly what they though was the best (for them).

Have FUN
Bob

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KA5S on April 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hummer Reliability
(scale of 1-10)
Average Rating 8.05
http://www.humvee.net/misc/rely.html

Cortland

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by LU1ARV on April 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

But important it will be the final price.
Don't think that it arrives to South America!
IC-7800s & FT-DX9000s, in this country is very important the old line. Used FT1000, is 2000 dollars!!
Very 73, all! José

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by N0IU on April 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Peter, W2IRT wrote:

"Why on earth would anyone release a $10,000 top-end HF radio at this point in the sunspot cycle?"

This is the perfect time to release this rig and the answer is simple. If we were at the peak of the sunspot cycle, you wouldn't need an $10k rig!

73,
de Scott NØIU

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by KA9IZM on April 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

price vs sales.....
today.....sold 10 at 13k
6 months..... sold 100 at 9k
1 year....sold 10,000 at 5k
1 1/2 years sold 100,000 at 2k

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on April 22, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Talked to 2 O.M.that are on the waiting list. Hey,it is their money to blow.

You can spend $45,000 on a Rolex Yactmaster in platinum. It just tells time!

I told one of the O.M.s that I would like to setup a sked, so I can hear the rig on air. He wants to hear y $1500 HARRIS decomissioned MIL. HF rig. I guess if he is Buying the 7800 FOR 10 GRAND, he will buy a HARRIS U-1446 FOR $1500.

My bet it will be the kings new cloths story for the 7800. Remember that story?

All the bells and whistles, and it will not perform any better than some rigs that cost under 3000 bux.

However those that are in line to buy this rig, will say....it is the best rig I ever had.

As for competition.....BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE ONE!!!!
If you got that kind of money for a rig, you will feel like you got second best, if you get the cheaper YEASU!!!!!!!

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on May 1, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I just bought a drake R-7A a few days ago. Bought a Drake TR-7 a while ago.

This combo was the most expensive rig you could buy in 1982. About $3000 for a near mil spec built transceiver with a second receiver. TR-7/R7A snd extra xtal filters. I paid about $1600 used. The R7A will be a collectors item. They are vert hard to find. An R7A was a raffle at dayton. The TR-7 may not become collecers material.

WHAT IS THE FRIGGIN POINT YOU ASK!!!!!

OK.....For $1600 I have a rig that will perform as well in many area's. Both the TR-7 and the R-7A have military variants. The Drake TR-77 and R-77. Same transceiver/2nd receiver combo. However they are in 19" rackmount case's. They also replaced the PTO's
with modern equivalants wih mil spec. stability.
So the US GVT thinks the drake is a rig.
The R7A will increase in value with time. The TR-7 will not devaluate any more than it has.

The 7800 is 11,000!!!!!!!! for just a non proven transceiver that cannot be made mil spec.

For half that money the money of the 7800.... you can do what I did. Get a classic radio, that wil increase in value.
You still have $3800 left to buy the latest ORIEN, ICOM, YEASU, KENWOOD or even a harris rig.(3200).

DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE NERVE TO TELL ICOM THE 7800 IS A TOTAL RIP-OFF!!!!!LOOK and THINK, ABOUT ALL YOU CAN BUY FOR HALF THAT MONEY !!!!!

IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by WA2JJH on October 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Motorola has a 400W DSP HF rig out. Price........I was told if you have to ask, YOU CANNOT AFFORD ONE!!!!

RE: IC-7800 Getting Some Competition?

by K8MHZ on February 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Is this the rig?

http://www.foxtango.org/FTDX9000.htm

I could not get the link at the top of the article to load.

There are several versions, the 400 watt rig goes for 13,500 bucks.

About what you would pay for a medium sized camper trailer new.

Or 38 1/2 used Icom-735's

It all depends on how you look at it, I guess. A new one won't be part of my budget soon, but I would love to play with one.

73,

mhz

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