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Is it Just Me?
Bernie Skoch (K5XS)
on
May 11, 2004
View comments about this article!
Is it just me, or is the language we use truly changing and becoming more like the Citizens Radio Service every day? Does it bother anyone but me?
A couple of days ago I heard a call sign break the squelch on 146.52 MHz, and had a nice enough conversation with a fellow as he was driving down the highway. He offered that his “personal” was [insert name here]. He said he was planning to put up a “base station” soon, and then closed by saying he'd “catch [me] on the flipper.” I'm not making this up.
Now, to be sure, this was a nice enough guy, and I enjoyed our conversation. But I was left wondering what—if anything—to do. Should I ignore it, thinking making mention of the CB lingo would be rude? Should I presumptuously suggest that's not how “we” talk on ham radio? Or maybe I should just “get over it” and accept that our lexicon is changing. I ended up wimping out and saying nothing.
I am happy that folks are getting licensed and joining us on ham radio, and I think bringing in CB operators is a good thing. But I'll admit I worry about us becoming more like “them.” I don't want my radio service becoming the mess CB apparently became (and oddly enough, I think that's why a lot of CB radio ops want to join the amateur radio world). Is “lingo” the first step on the way to “that” kind of service?
I'd surely be interested in hearing others' views.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Is it Just Me?
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by KC0MDC on May 11, 2004
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I don't think the "phrases" carrying over is a bad thing. I would rather hear some humorous quips containing "CB" phrases than someone going um, um, uh, um.....
I think that it is just habit, and perfectly acceptable. I know alot of purists who believe Q-signs should not be used on voice, but really what is the difference whether they are used on voice or CW? I know that we are not supposed to speak in "code" so that others listening can't understand us, but the information is openly available and may lead them to investigate for themselves. Same things for "CB" phrases, if someone doesn't understand what they are saying, they could ask, not a big deal.
I'm pretty open to what takes place during conversations, minus the vulgarity and such. I don't think giving your "20" or saying 10-4 instead of QSL or roger is going to lead us down the wrong road. Just $0.02 from a farmboy who grew up using the CB to communicate during harvest :) Interesting topic by the way, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
73 Tim
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Is it Just Me?
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by WPE9JRL on May 11, 2004
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Relax....breathe.....jumping bunnies.....tranquil fawns.....twirling butterflies......gentle, tinkling waters......(repeat 10X till anal fixation disappears).
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KT8K on May 11, 2004
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I'm with KC0MDC. I operate to communicate, and I like to do it in a humorous way as well. Whatever gets the message across accurately is fine with me, and if I use some CB jargon for a chuckle I hope nobody takes it too seriously. Ham radio is a great and enjoyable hobby, but it is not CB, nor anything like it. I have no fears of CB or any other terminology taking ham radio down the wrong road.
Have fun es 73 de kt8k - Tim
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Is it Just Me?
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by CWTITAN on May 11, 2004
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It has bothered me for a long long time. They sound dumb and stupid when they use ham radio phone. Q signs, CB lingo have NO place on ham radio...Just go away you idiots.
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Is it Just Me?
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by K3YD on May 11, 2004
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No, you're not the only one who has noticed this, nor is it new.
For about 30 years (maybe longer) the sharpest, most curious CBers have trickled into Amateur Radio. I've found that they're anxious to learn and after a week or three will begin to speak Ham jargon, rather than using the terms and expressions common on 27 MHz. A warm welcome and a good example are all that most of them need to "learn the language," and become the Hams that they chose to become.
No, I've never operated on 27 MHz, but I have many friends who did. Funny thing, I can't remember anymore which ones came through CB. They're Hams now.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 11, 2004
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"
Is it just me, or is the language we use truly changing and becoming more like the Citizens Radio Service every day? "
We can only hope not.
"
Does it bother anyone but me? "
Yes.
"
A couple of days ago I heard a call sign break the squelch on 146.52MHz, and had a nice enough conversation with a fellow as he was driving down the highway. He offered that his “personal” was [insert name here]. He said he was planning to put up a “base station” soon, and then closed by saying he'd “catch [me] on the flipper.” I'm not making this up.
Now, to be sure, this was a nice enough guy, and I enjoyed our conversation. But I was left wondering what—if anything—to do. Should I ignore it, thinking making mention of the CB lingo would be rude? "
It could be rude, but not necessarily, depending on how you do it. You are likely thinking that since you are on the air, that you don't know exactly who is listening. This is a valid consideration, to say the least.
Think of it this way though: If you were in a face to face conversation with him, with no one else there, wouldn't you feel like you should do him a favor and gently let him know what acceptable behavior is? I remember being a new ham, and was very glad whenever an old timer took a few minutes of his time to educate me and save me from further embarrasement.
If your goal is to help him, and you go about it the right way, then it is not rude.
I doubt your goal would be to shoot him down - and if it was, then that would certainly be rude and nasty.
"
Should I presumptuously suggest that's not how “we” talk on ham radio? Or maybe I should
just “get over it” and accept that our lexicon is changing. "
Why accept change for the worse? I don't think any of us should do that.
" I ended up wimping out and saying nothing. "
In a quandry? That is understandable.
"
I am happy that folks are getting licensed and joining us on ham radio, and I think bringing in CB operators is a good thing. But I'll admit I worry about us becoming more like “them.” I don't want my radio service becoming the mess CB apparently
became (and oddly enough, I think that's why a lot of CB radio ops want to join the amateur radio world). "
We certainly can't blame them for wanting to leave that atrocity and come to something better. However, it behooves us all to be sure that we always continue to be something better.
"
Is “lingo” the first step on the way to “that” kind of service?
I'd surely be interested in hearing others' views. "
Here is one idea to try:
Just as in a face to face conversation, if you don't understand something the other party said, it is ok to ask them to explain it.
You might like to just ask him, on your next transmission, something like, " You mentioned your personal. Your personal what? I don't understand. "
Or, " What is your flipper? Sorry, you lost me with that. "
The other party must respond. You might get an opportunity to politely explain. It is also very possible that he knew better, and perhaps has bad habits, and simply slipped and thus with your question he'll be reminded and figure it out for himself.
One thing is certain though, ignoring something eventually leads to it being acceptable and normal, through continually condoning it. Ignoring bad behavior once or twice is fine, but we can't always ignore bad behavior, else it will become the norm.
You've brought up an interesting and worthwhile topic.
I hope you generate several replies with ideas for workable methods of dealing with this problem.
73
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Is it Just Me?
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by EXPRO on May 11, 2004
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I think its just sicking. I hear the following on a local repeater.
1. I am at the home 20 now
2. catch you on the flip side
3. wall to wall tree top tall
4 personal here is
5. 4- roger
Time for the newbies to grow up and start acting like hams I think.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 11, 2004
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by KT8K on May 11, 2004
" I'm with KC0MDC. I operate to communicate, and I like to do it in a humorous way as well. Whatever gets the message across accurately is fine with me, and if I use some CB jargon for a chuckle I hope nobody takes it too seriously. "
I too feel that it is great for a laugh. It certainly sounds silly enough. :)
Although, I didn't get the impression from the original
post, that the fellow in question was doing it to get a chuckle - I got the impression that he thought it was acceptable jargon.
"
Ham radio is a great and enjoyable hobby, "
Very true.
" but it is not CB, nor anything like it. "
Thank goodness!
" I have no fears of CB or any other terminology taking ham radio down the wrong road. "
Unfortunately, history seems to show that we cannot rely on government law enforcement to protect ham radio from becoming chaos. They certainly didn't prevent CB from it.
While it is true that simple use of terminology, in and of itself, will not be the downfall of anything, it is also true that accepting behavior that runs contrary to our established and respected norms and traditions is got a good thing. It is accepting change for the worse. Our topic could be a small change. But if we accept small changes for the worse, then how do we justify not accepting the bigger changes for the worse?
73
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 11, 2004
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Previous post has a typo that could confuse meaning.
Sorry.
"got a good thing" should be "not a good thing"
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Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by WB4M on May 11, 2004
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Amateur Radio is NOT CB! Please leave your CB garbage on 11 meters where it belongs. No need to degrade ham radio any further.
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Is it Just Me?
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by N9AVY on May 11, 2004
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Saturday as I was mobiling through Wi, I heard one operator say "bring it back" on the end of every transmission. At first I thought that the other party had "borrowed" something from him. I listened for several minutes and found the "bring it back" exchange extremely annoying to listen to.
One other one that comes to mind is "Rahjerrrrr that!". This, too, becomes rather annoying to listen to after several minutes of listening.
There are probably other phrases/words that are annoying, but I'm destinated at the home QTH and can't continue this rant.
Jerry N9AVY
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K4RAF on May 11, 2004
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Yes it is just you.
Being bothered by any language shows real immaturity.
I am proud to have started with CB & SWLing 31 years ago.
While I have greatly progressed, I see the ignorant amongst us still look down with long held cliches of both my roots.
You are likely the same people who make unidentified comments in order "express your outrage" about a conversation you don't approve of either. You know, the ones who say "sound like a bunch of CBers". I hear you daily but I can't legally talk to unidentified stations.
I will gladly talk to CBers with a call though...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WB2WIK on May 11, 2004
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If an operator isn't annoying or doing anything technically wrong, language doesn't bother me.
I think hams made up such words as "destinated" when repeaters became popular about 30 years ago, and some of this kind of silly lingo stuck. Doesn't hurt anyone. Who knows? Maybe one day "destinated" will be in the dictionary...
Back as far as I can remember (as an SWL in the late 1950's) hams used lingo such as "pull the big switch" and stuff. I always thought it kind of quaint.
WB2WIK/6
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Is it Just Me?
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by K0RFD on May 11, 2004
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A tempest in a teapot.
Language evolves. Slang from one segment of the population creeps into other segments.
As long as I understand what the other guy is saying, great. Hell, it's easier than understanding my kids.
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by KA3RFE on May 11, 2004
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If you're making a local contact with someone using phrases that are looked down-upon, invite the other ham to visit with you and at that time you can gently teach him or her what "good amateur pratice" is in relation to cb slang.
I believe many new hams do not KNOW that cb talk isn't kosher on the ham bands and they just need to be taught, and taught GENTLY. There's no need to get huffy and make put downs towards cb operators.
We have our own stupid phrases. "Destinated" is one of 'em. "YL" "harmonics" for wife and kids. "LID" Some of use use "GO" instead of "over." And "BTU" on RTTY or the other direct keyboard contacts.
And, sometimes we just forget which mic we're using. :-)
73 Pete KA3RFE
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by K4JSR on May 11, 2004
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Has ham radio become so politically correct that if one does not speak the Queen's English, complete with
a Cambridge accent, that one takes umbrage?
If this is the case, BPL may just be getting here in
time to save us from ourselves. The day when someone
actually bothers to study and meet the the requirements licensing should be sufficient in every
manner, save the ones listed by Steve Katz.
For those of you who have your noses up in the air
about this, I hope lightning doesn't strike!
I don't see any Nose Kits at Poly Phasor!
Get a grip. Even troglodytes aren't that backward!
73 Cal K4JSR
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by AA4PB on May 11, 2004
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Since I first got into ham radio in the mid 50's ham radio has been full of "lingo". The handle here is Bob. The QTH is xxx. I'm gonna pull the big switch. QSL on your last. See ya on down the log. When I was in high school I wrote a report on the special lingo used in ham radio. The fact is many different groups have their own special lingo; it's not a ham or CB thing.
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by K3GI on May 11, 2004
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What, may I ask, is CB lingo, and how can I tell if it's being used?
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by K5UJ on May 11, 2004
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I notice all the ham/cb examples involve 2 meters fm.
Why don't you qsy to HF and forget about it.
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Is it Just Me?
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by W8JTW on May 11, 2004
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I have noticed it to but want to hear the best of the best CB lingo?
How about Big Rig Mobile!!!
and yes in 8 land these are KC8 calls about to go KD8 calls
I guess in the humorous side its better than dead slience. Dosen't seem to be a problem anywhere but on 2 meters dont hear much of it on 220 mhz or 440 mhz or HF.
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Is it Just Me? - Reply
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by CB on May 11, 2004
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Like someone else said, we use some pretty weird lingo ourselves. Who the heck cares what lingo you use as long as you get to communicate with others, isn't that why there is a press to talk button on the mic, not a press to talk in HAM RADIO LINGO Button!!!!!!
I don't remember seeing any thing about having to use a particular lingo in the FCC Rule book!
Geez don't be so stuck up, and prejudice!!
This is not an exclusive club, it's open to anyone who can pass the tests, no matter how they express themselves.
get over it, and just enjoy the hobby.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W8JJI on May 11, 2004
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Fine business, hi hi, real good, fine copy , hi hi, fine business, fine copy , real good, fine business , hi hi . 73, 73, fine business.
Real fine hi hi good fine business hi hi copy 73?, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81...........
I don't think we're in Kansas any more!
Warning!-Warning! Collision!- Collision! (that does not compute)
Wilma, I'm home !
Now you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me ED, or you can call me Fred, or you can call me Phil, or you can call me Bill, but ya doesn't has ta call me Johnson!
Over hill and highway the bananna buggys go!
The Buggaloos, the Buggaloos, there in the air and everywhere!
Albert Alligator pencil chomper!
If you think it's butter, but it's snot , it's Chiffon.
Safety bar !? , We don't need no safety bar !
Duke, it even sounds like a man's beer.
"Then what brain did you get" ?, "Abby someone".
It's not easy being green.
Sister Mary Elephant.
"Captain, that is illogical".
"He never says that about my coffee"
"I am Mr. Peabody and this is my pet boy Sherman".
Here comes the judge, here comes the judge!
You can't take 'em to the movies and they can't play drums, Fish heads fish heads rolly polly fish heads, eat them up YUM !
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Is it Just Me?
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by K0CBA on May 11, 2004
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This sort of harkens back to a response I made a year or two ago.....the new hams complain the older hams shun them. Then when it is mentioned to them "how the Romans do it" and that CB stuff is like putting ice on a sore tooth the newbees tell them to go *%$$ up a rope. No one gives a damn how it was done where you came from...you're not there anymore, you are here and here we do it this way.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KG4RUL on May 11, 2004
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10-4 Good Buddy! You keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down. We'll catch you on the flip side. We be gone!
Is that any less dorky than saying QSL at the end of each transmission? Or Roger, Roger. Why does Roger need to be Rogered?
Dennis / KG4RUL
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N5MZL on May 11, 2004
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Yeah, it's just you, I'm very sorry to say, along with a number of other arrogant, self-important...er, public-spirited Radio Amateurs on this thread.
Some of you boys need to cool your thrusters. "CB lingo on the Ham bands? Horrors!" You are going to get upset about this? Give me a break.
Got a news flash for you all; humans do tend to separate out into different groups as relates to all sorts of things, not the least of which are technical, or let's say quasi-technical in terms of CB, areas. Most of you would be utterly clueless were you to wander into my shop, listening to a gang of computer network engineers going at it, or a group of aerospace engineers working on a rocket, or a group of medical doctors, or even people from different parts of the country. Lingo, slang, techical jargon, call it what you will.
And yes, CBers have their little set of slang terms they like to use (and let's not kid ourselves; there's not a swinging you-name-it here who doesn't know EXACTLY what those terms mean, for the simple reason that most "CB lingo" had it's origins here in the amateur, or some other, service of the radio kind).
So what? Take this fellow referred to in the original post, with his "catch you on the flipper", "my personal is...", etc. He's on 2 meters, and I would bet long odds the ink on his ham license has yet to dry. So he's a newbie.
Now, IF he remains active in the Amateur Service, (assuming some bunch of arrogant jerks with Extra Class licenses don't run him off by giving him a ration of @#$% because he's still on a learning curve) in time he will notice that, no, people don't use the same slang terms on the ham bands that are used on 11 meters. And unless he's a complete idiot, he will adapt given a bit of time.
(And anyone who thinks that the idiots are only on 11 meters better think again; there are a boatload of General, Advanced and Extra Class flaming idiots on the ham bands, and if you doubt this, just go to 20, 40 and especially 75/80 meters some evening and listen around. The CBer's can't hold a candle to some of our own "bretheren" right here.)
I know a lot of people who came to ham radio from CB (I'm one of them, and while us ex-CBers may not comprise a majority of the hams in the US today, we sure make up a very large minority), and for the most part they all adapted in their use of slang, dropping the "good buddy's" and "big 10-4s" for our own brand of slang, which we most assuredly have. And it's slang that, to those who have not been vouchsafed the revelation, we probably sound as silly as the 11 meter crowd does to us.
I have only just recently returned to ham radio after a 10 year absence, and I've done my share of listening around the bands. And in terms of "CB slang leaking into the ham bands", it's no worse now than it was when I was first licensed back in the mid-1980s. People were bitching about this sort of thing back then, too, and make no mistake, Mr. "Catch you on the flipper" will learn, too.
So calm yourselves, people. It's not that bad after all...
73 de N5MZL
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KD5DFM on May 11, 2004
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thats just it , under the rules it is technically wrong to do , i am was a swl then a cb'er and now a ham . but i always go b the rules and even o cb was concerned aobut other enjoying that hobby " wish everyone had " some things just sound ignorant and some cb saying have tha di"stink"tion
> or doing anything technically wrong, language >doesn't bother me.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N8MMZ on May 11, 2004
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Well - get over it on the 2M band - that's just the way it has changed. Consider using 220MHz or try moving to CW where prosigns are standardized.
I think it is not a bad thing for someone to interject his personality when using voice modes - understandably, things are a little different on HF, as there is a different decorum on those bands, but above HF - as long as you ID every 10 minutes - all is well.
73s de N8MMZ
Jonathan
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Is it Just Me?
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by KG6KBN on May 11, 2004
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Gee, as I look at the rack in my car with the Yaesu 2-meter rig, a Midland CB and 2 Vertex comercial radios (VHF and UHF), I wonder if the Radio Lingo God will come a hit me with a lightning bolt if I grab the wrong mike and say the wrong thing. Now I'm scared
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Is it Just Me?
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by W4UII on May 11, 2004
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Us and them. That is the way to get new people involved in amateur radio? CB is probably where the greatest portion of new amateurs come from. I know I did.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 11, 2004
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Certainly not just "you". Locally here after two years of putting up with this crap and watching them upgrade from tech to extra and not changing or seeming to learn a thing i had to step in. I actually had to take my 2 meter machine back from them with the help of the fcc. Some of these guys like i said made their extra license then would get on 2 meters and use their cb handles and all the slang mentioned in the above thread. They also hang out on certain freq's on hf and from time to time do the same thing on the hf frequencys. Most times they will not id, and any freq they are on sounds exactly like a cb channel. Now don't get me wrong on this either, i have ran into many that are actually fine operators and want to better themselves. There's certainly a large amount of these people intent on only pissing the older hams off though. I had one tell me that "they" were going to change us...not us them when i ask him why he wanted to keep using his cb handle instead of his amateur call on the hambands. No its not like this everywhere and no i'm not talking down about all cbers that come to the hambands...but this does happen.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WB4QNG on May 11, 2004
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When ever I hear such CB talk on ham radio I just turn on my amp. and put a big carrier on them. That shows them we don't want no CB talk on the ham bands. No it doesn't bother me sounds strange at times but it doesn't bother me. What did get to me the other day I was on 2 meters and I told a guy that my handle was Terry and he came back and told me that I should use the word name not handle. He told me the word handle was used on CB not the ham bands. He went on to tell me that you newbies should learn the rules before you talk. It tick me off but the only thing I ask him is how was he so sure I was a newbie and he said by my call sign. I then just signed off with him. I check out his call sign I hope he checked out mine. It looked like he had his "ticket" for a year. I have been a ham for 28 years been an advanced class for 26 of them. We always used handle for the name. As for as the call sign goes it is the same one I got 28 years ago except it went from WN4QNG to WB4QNG. I listen to two meters all the time when I am in my shack and 90% of the time it is dead air. I would rather hear anything than nothing.
Terry
WB4QNG
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 11, 2004
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Ref N5MZL: Don't you think 2 years is enough on the learning curve? Also i don't want to get into a pissing contest with you om but you called some extras arrogant and self important...then farther down in your comments you talked about most of us being utterly clueless if we walked into "your shop".
I think maybe you used two of your own ideas about yourself to describe some of us. Are you one of those extra operators that i hear about sometime that repairs those cb's for the chickenbander and puts the illegal channels in them and boosts the power out? You're probably right most of us would be lost in your shop.
Have a nice day om
John WR8D:
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N6CRR on May 11, 2004
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It's you good buddy
If you don't like what I have to say, or the way I say it, then use that knob called power button. It's called free speech.
By the way, I love being corrected by self anointed, purity of ham speech police.
If I use good buddy, or handle or anything you don’t approve of tough cookies. I earned my Advanced class 20 years ago, and as long as what I say is neither profane nor vulgar you can either choose to talk to me in what you consider proper ham lingo, and maybe I'll learn by example, or look down your nose clucking about the good old days, it's your choice.
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Is it Just Me?
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by WA1WLA on May 11, 2004
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Yes, they do sound silly but there are some seasoned hams that hold the microphone whether they have something to say or not, buttttttt ummmmmm and so on.
If someone threw a CB phrase at me I would ask him for a ham translation, sooner or later he will realize that in his new environment they talk different.
When someone says he is destinated I ALWAYS grab the microphone and ask him what is he taking for it, if he asks me what I mean I explain, destinated sound like a medical condition.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KA4KOE on May 11, 2004
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Just to tweak the locals, I'd identify on the repeater with "Breaker 1-9 for a radio check".
We all understand its in fun and to remind us all to not take things TOO seriously.
Being anal-retentive, can, after all, lead to serious lower GI problems, not to mention cardiovascular issues. 10-200 in the extreme, good buddy.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KA4KOE on May 11, 2004
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All should read George Orwell's "Brave New World", in which he discusses New Speak...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W5HTW on May 11, 2004
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Well you used the phrase "CB lingo." And that is what it is. It is a manner of speaking that is decidedly CB and people find nothing wrong with it.
So why do they find it wrong that ham radio has (had)its manner of speaking? Why can't we have our own mannerisms, our own lingo, if CB is permitted to have its style?
But, no, the newer hams want to transfer the CB lingo to ham radio. We are not permitted, in their eyes, to play the game a bit differently. They want to dilute ham radio, and they are doing so.
Why is it when a CBer becomes a ham, he can't play by our traditions, but has to revise them, convert them? That shows a complete lack of respect for ham radio and its style.
So, no, you are not wrong. The dilution is well under way. It will continue.
Ed
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Is it Just Me?
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by OBSERVER11 on May 11, 2004
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Yes Bernie, it has infiltrated and if we do not elmer we will be over-run.
When someone comes back with "the personal here is..." I return with, "on amateur radio we say "the name here is.... or the handle here is..." - yes we had HANDLES long before the term was hijacked by CBers..
When someone says "the personal", it is a dead giva-away of where they operate most.
If they do not accept the suggestion, I will sign with them and go find another conversation, pretty soon, they will catch on.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by NI0Z on May 11, 2004
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That is exactly why I took my VHF/UHF radio out of the truck - and replaced it with a CB.
What a self-righteous, arrogant band of pricks hams can be...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by NA4IT on May 11, 2004
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OK let's get realistic (NOT Radio Shack).
Amateur Radio DOES get a lot of new licencees from CB. And I don't blame them. For them, going from CB to Tech class ham is a big step. Kinda like when the rest of us went from Tech to General. (We won't talk about going to Extra, I can't remember how many times I took the test.
Now mind you, most of these folks aren't going to spend the funds for a radio until they get their ticket. So they really don't know what to say. But, I think you will find, most are polite and scared to death.
I can remember when I got my tech ticket. And even though I had given up CB years ago, I still used the phrase "The personal on this end is Scott." And one day, while visiting a ham friend of mine, he told me he had something to tell me. He said "I'm not chewing you out, but trying to help you. We don't say "personal" on ham radio. Just thought I would let you know, because we have some old gezzers on that will rip you apart if they hear it."
Nice enough. I appreciated it. And I don't say personal anymore (well maybe I slip up sometimes).
Now here's the point I am going to make...
HOW DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO LEARN UNLESS YOU ELMER THEM?
OVER.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by NI0Z on May 11, 2004
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Just to elaborate a little...
Driving around with our RV I attempted numerous calls on 2m and 70cm mostly to no avail, even after two guys just finished their conversation (or must I say "QSO" to stay within ham-lingo?) on local repeaters. All I asked for was local traffic advice (you really don't want to drive into the wrong neighborhood with a 30+ft 5th wheel), and all I got was - no response...
On CB, on the other hand, I have gotten traffic advice, radar advice (ohmigod - you must tell Riley immediately!), and just talked to friendly, hard-working people. So what if they're rough around the edges? I'd prefer that over two giezers telling each other of their prostate and hemorrhoid ailments any day (and twice on Sunday). And, honestly, ham "lingo" is no more intelligent than CB lingo, just different. So, you giezers just continue to talk in pluralis majestatis when 'we' are "destinated" and send your very best 73's (sic) when you 'go QRT'...
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Common Courtesy
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by KB2QQM on May 11, 2004
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It is not just you. It really annoys me to hear CB Jargon on the Ham Bands. I hear it mostly in Milwaukee on the 2M Repeaters...."Breaker, Breaker....hold on Breaker". The CB lingo exists on 75 Meters, along with the vulgarity. Ham radio has definately changed since I was licensed 10 years ago. It seems to me that people just don't have any respect for others, which not only permeates ham radio but society as a whole. The World is a changed place, everybody is so full of themselves. Like for instance when you are driving down the interstate, and you are doing like 5 mph above the speed limit to move with the flow of traffic and somebody passes you like you are standing still....and you know they are saying "hey, jerk...out of my way" Common courtesy has disappeared in America. It seems every couple of years the rules keep changing and continue to be relaxed for operating and knowledge. Pretty soon you will fill out a questionare on why you want to be a ham, and send in $4.99 and then print your "certificate" on your home computer. Amateur Radio is a Service and a Hobby, and I believe it is a priviledge "earned". I think with the relaxation of the rules it has become easier to become a ham and some people just don't value it because they didn't have to work hard to get it, therefore they don't respect it or other people. I also think that there exists what I like to call the "2 percent rule".
2 percent of any group are "jack-asses" and ruin it for the rest of us. It is just how the world works. I don't ignore the problem but bring it to the persons attention off the air. They may not even realize they are doing it. But it needs to be taken care of. To ignore it, is to let it continue.
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No, it's not just you. It's much worse.
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by KG6OYK on May 12, 2004
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Yuck. You know what’s worse than the improper use of CB lingo on the Amateur frequencies? Elitist snobbery. Not singling you out Bernie, you are clearly bothered and not sure what to do. Others have made their viewpoints clear. Think about it. Really think about it for a minute – what do you bring to the Amateur Radio Service. Are you an active, helpful participant, or are you an angry complainer. I address this to the eHam community – what are you doing? Where is the joy if all you can do is complain? Why bother at all?
I got my ticket (hope that’s not the wrong lingo, don’t want to offend anyone!) in February of last year. Upgraded to General at Field Day, and made Extra last month at my local clubs meeting. I enjoy HF, Sats, T-hunting (and hiding), PSK-31, SSTV, APRS, contesting, rag-chewing, you name it. I have made many new friends since becoming a ham – some less than half my age, others more than twice. In my short time as a ham, I have had many, many QSO’s with complete strangers – ALL of them have been positive. Really! No one has ever been rude to me on air, no one has ever called me an “Extra Lite”, and no one has ever belittled the terminology that I use. EHam, however, seems to be a clearinghouse for angry hams to voice their opinions on the rest of us should speak on air, or bitch that I got Extra at 5WPM, or whatever! Enough!
Respect is earned. If you have been a ham for 40 years – SHOW IT. Be courteous. Set an example for the rest of us. If you don’t think 10 codes belong, then don’t use them. I don’t use them either. But I don’t tell others that they shouldn’t – I don’t remember anything in the tests about 10 codes being verboten. Whether they should or shouldn’t is a matter of opinion, style, and preference – not a requirement.
Relax. If you have a conversation with someone who you think is using “chicken-band” (more snobbery) terms, so what? What’s worse – saying, “Handle here is Steve” or berating someone who does?
SteveL
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Is it Just Me?
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by N3QT on May 12, 2004
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In the past couple of weeks, I read here on eham that one should not use any "phrases" HAM or otherwise. As a new HAM (IMHO), I found most HAM phrases confusing.
Your post says the CB "phrases" are essentially frowned upon while HAM'ng. I understand what your saying. "10-4" on 2m can make one cringe. It doesn't seem to fit.
Police, Fire & Rescue, cab drivers, air traffic controllers, and military all have there "specific phrasing".
Traffic Nets (NTS: phone/cw) have strict procedures.
e.g
"Delta 743, zero-nine-zero at one five thousand, six miles out heavy, requesting 19er R"
"four 10-7 10-100" ..."four returned 10-8"
I would suggest listening to everything you can and learn to understand it all...making you a highly effect communicator in any situation.
~~
N3QT
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC9FXA on May 12, 2004
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<< KA4KOE on May 11, 2004
All should read George Orwell's "Brave New World", in which he discusses New Speak... >>
I understood your message....but
G. Orwell's "New-Speak" is from 1984
also, an even better on is:
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
~ also Orwell
'nuff said '73
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N3QT on May 12, 2004
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"...highly effect communicator.."
effective
effective
effective
...a highly effective communicator..., apparently, unlike myself
...hi hi hi
...ha ha ha
...(ba - ha)^2
..snort, smirk, gasp.
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Is it Just Me?
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by K8NQC on May 12, 2004
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As an old goat ham from the days before there was a CB, I can tell a new guy or gal when they come on, whether they came from CB, Military, Public Service, or the family band. I am always pleased to hear them and know that their expressions will become familiar after a period of acclamation. If I am friendly to them, they will enjoy the hobby and learn the conventions in time.
Even though I try never to be rude to the new operators, I do expect them to speak clearly and to carefully identify their station. If they have a quality problem I will tell them. Slurred speech is not good for radio communications. I must confess that I have asked some new hams what they meant by certain terms. I had never heard "personal" used to mean name until recently. Another was a term "bleedover" for adjacent channel interference used in channelized being incorrectly used on HF bands where channels are not used. I even see advertisers using the term "base station" which rarely is ever a fit for ham radio. However, I still know what the new ham means when he says base station and I am not going to embarrass either of us by saying anything. The new operator is probably nervous.
One of the best things any of us can do for the future of the hobby is to make the newcomer feel welcome and to be pleased ourself that the hobby is made stronger by the addition of that new person. Be kind and give him/her time.
73, Bill
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KA4KOE on May 12, 2004
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FXA:
Thanks for the correction. Got my books mixed up. Been 20 years since I read either one.
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Is it Just Me?
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by W3RAZ on May 12, 2004
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First, I will talk to anyone, CB Jargon or not.
Second, what I DO do is try to lead by example. If a squirrel get son the machine, I leave. I never make a comment about the squirrel. I also operate as I think I should. That means:
No Q signals on FM Phone
If I need to use phonetics, I only use the standard
Example: Whiskey Three Romeo Alpha Zulu instead of my grandpa's favorite, Whiskey 3 Radio America Zanzibar (for all I know, they may have BEEN right for his time period).
Try to use the best english I can for clearer communication: Never use destinated, my personal (it's my NAME dad gummit), for id (my call is my id so I just say it!). Using some of these common terms just confuse things.
Try to do round robins if more then two stations. If three or more, I will throw it to the next one who I remember has not talked recently. Doing this reduces doubles.
User generally acceptable amateur practice.
Say I am listening when I am on frequency....I tend to dislike calling CQ on a repeater and I will always listen for a minute to make sure I am not butting into a already in progress QSO.
While the CB like behavior does not bug me much, I do try and do what I think new hams should do that way they can follow my EXAMPLE. Also, one more part of my example....anything that does get out of hand, if I know the ham, I talk to them eyeball to eyeball. Bawliong them out on air just creates animosity on the repeater. Do it in person or not at all.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by AE6IP on May 12, 2004
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In my 30 years on the net, the biggest irony i've found is people using some hobby's jargon on a web board to complain about people who use jargon out of place.
Thank you for the continued source of humor.
HTH, HAND
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Is it Just Me?
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by N7ZSD on May 12, 2004
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I'm with a couple of other posts here. The guys using CB lingo will fall in with the rest of us perfectly flawless amateur radio operators. Hell, just tonight I heard a net on 2m and didn't understand a word the net controller was saying! I think he had the mic stuck between a couple of molers. Either that or he was from the planet Zoltar64. Anyway, my point is, there are worse things to gripe about. Maybe we should consult a couple of good 'ol boys from MT who apparantly own 3.908. (oh yeah, and 3 on either side). They know everything there is to know about ham radio and everything else! If you don't believe me, just ask them...they'll tell ya! Or perhaps someone could draw it out for us on SSTV. (don't forget the nudity!). If CB lingo has no place on ham radio and nudity is OK, I am outta here! Leave the CBilinguals be, they'll come around. We've got bigger fish to fry!
73 GOOD BUDDY!
N7ZSD
p.s. I owned a CB once...hated it. Couldn't talk down the street with the damn thing, but could hear some dude 1500 miles away. Got my ham ticket shortly thereafter.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KD7KFQ on May 12, 2004
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Welcome to the world of the "No Code Tech" and yes I am prejudiced, I climbed up from being a code novice class back in the eighties and now hold the highest level of Australian call and just returned from there so am about to test for my Extra and I too hate it when I hear CB lingo/attitudes on the air. :o)
It's amazing at time to listen to some of the questions I hear people ask on technical nets or in general on air conversations. Simple things like "my swr goes higher when I tune down the band, is my antenna to long or too short?" or the one I really shook my head at "I put my CB antenna on my two meter and its working great so now I can use it for both radios with a T connector" AMAZING.. I really am surprised some of these people passed the Tech license exam but sadly there seems to be a huge move right now centered around Sat and Sun weekend jam in the correct answers type classes so you can pass the test on Sunday and I for one think it's dumping a bunch of new amateurs onto the air that really have no grasp of what they just studied. I do like the idea of bringing more people into HAM radio, like boy scouts (hey, how come you never hear of girl scout Ham camps..whooops another topic..grin) but I think we're misguided in our directions to be honest.. we seem to be fearful that all the Amateurs are going Silent Key and we need to lower license requirements/testing to bring new people in. Well I for one think we need to address some more important issues like Home Owner Associations and CC'Rs etc.. THAT is what is killiing HAM radio.. I paid $300,000 for a home and can't evne put up an antenna on my roof, the local PD actually came and told me I needed to take it down yet I have volunteered for RACES and ARES work and my local PD has a full station with antennas on top of it's roof... We need to spend more time on CCR and HOA issue and try to get more people on the lower bands.. keep the interest....
Just my two cents.....
Jennifer
KB6JEN & VK2WD, formerly VE7JOD, KD7KFQ, as well as a couple other "CODE" calls dating back to the eighties...<grin>
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC8ZQM on May 12, 2004
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You know maybe I'm too new to the hobby for this to bother me, but I don't see the big deal. I agree with a lot of guys that are saying the humor of some operators is good to break up the monotony and - get this- might make folks realize that ham radio is fun.
As for "acting like hams," what the hell does that mean? Common sense tells someone to act in a responsible fashion. "Catch you on the flipper," and "wall to wall," is irresponsible? Bad amateur practice? Offensive to whom?
I admit there are phrases that bother me. The "first personal" often makes me think of a question about my first sexual experience and kind throws me off guard. There are others.
But there is "ham traits" that also bothers me. Discussions of ham radio, technology, and even certain political issues seem entirely interesting to me most of the time. However, hour long monologues about an entire guys life from the time he was in pampers I can do with out.
It's really no big deal at all though, until it degrades to the level of lot lizards advertising on 20 meters.
People are people, aren't they? If there not maybe at your next hamfest you should have two different bathrooms, waterfountains, etc. One for lowly uneducated, animalistic CBers and one for the educationally superior, civilized radio amateurs.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC0ERG on May 12, 2004
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"10-4" isn't CB lingo; it's practically an English word. People who've never used a transmitter in their lives will say "10-4" because it's a very common term. Most people nowadays hear it used by the police on Cops since most people do not use CB. It's probably the most forgiveable "slip".
Wasn't the Ten Code originally developed by law enforcement? That's certainly where it's used most. Regardless of how it became commonly used, it's still a law enforcement term.
The Grateful Dead originally used the phrase "just keep truckin' on". It eventually became the catch phrase of the '70s. That didn't change the fact that it's inherently a Dead reference and always will be. Just like "10-4". Cut those two syllables a little slack, will ya? There's a big difference between saying "10-4" and "10-4, good buddy". I wish to heaven that the biggest problem in all of our lives was someone saying "10-4" on a repeater.
My brothers were CB nuts in the '70s. I had a little crystal CB on my bike, so I played around with it but didn't really do that much. They had big quads on towers and expensive microphones. One neighbor up the street had a huge amplifier about which the FCC issued an in person warning late one night. My brother bought a piece of gear with a note that said "Roses are red, violets are blue. Your new SWR bridge can be a linear, too!" then proceeded to explain what to do to modify it into a linear amplifier. He had QSL cards from around the world. I was in awe of the places he talked from his spare bedroom. His "wallpaper" gave me the bug, but years later when my friend Shelly used a phonepatch to call her parents when we pulled into town from a band trip, I knew that I had to become a ham someday. That was the coolest thing ever, then I saw her dad's station. Whoa. It was incredible and it could do more than my brother's CB ever could. Even though I hadn't talked wirelessly in years, I knew that my path would cross with it someday.
That said, I didn't know until I read it on this board that "destinated" is CB term. I've always avoided using it because it's just a stupid, stupid word made up by someone to sound more intelligent (just like "orientate". You never need to "orientate" yourself, "orient" is just fine.) Apparently, I've been using "arrived" for all the wrong reasons.
I'll never use "hi hi" unless I'm saying hello to two separate people. It just sounds "wrong" to me. I'd like to know the origins of it, though I'll never use it.
Now, I learn that some people think Q signs shouldn't be used on FM voice because it's for CW only. By that logic, it also shouldn't be used in printed media or online. So, no more talking about QRP rigs or fighting QRM unless you're actually sending code.
It's much more convenient to say "QSY .550" than "OK, I'm switching to 146.550. Please join me there." Heck, I almost have some people at work saying it when we have to switch channels on our radios. I'm sure that's probably a mortal sin to someone!
Amateur radio is a social setting. There will always be those who try to learn and fit in and those who will view that as "conforming to someone else's ideas" and will fight it. Like the guy above said "2% of all groups." I'm very proud of the privileges I earned and the fact that the only ham exam I've not passed the first time was the Extra (and I only took it to placate the examiners since I had no preparation at all). I hope to be able to call myself a "competent HF operator" sometime in the next few years.
I guess there will always be a group of people who want everyone to talk and operate exactly like they do on their modified/hacked equipment that can easily break the law.
Funny, was that last line about amateur or CB? :-)
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Is it Just Me?
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by AC5CH on May 12, 2004
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Hehehehe, that's a BIG 10-4!
LMAO as I tune up the old Blackcat JB-2000 and Johnson 352 on 10 meters AM...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by AC5CH on May 12, 2004
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Good point!
I've found that CBers are MUCH friendlier and more helpful than hams as a group. I have been a ham since 1983 when I was licensed at 12 years of age. I've enjoyed the whole experience a lot, but have always kept some 11 meter stuff around to talk to the "locals" with. For the most part, they are GREAT folks who I am proud to call my friends.
Whenever I needed help installing my tower last year,EVERY CBer I asked to help showed up. NONE of the hams did with the exception of a few who were ex-CBers. Ditto on the installation of my 19B2 2 meter SSB beam. You can draw your own conclusions from this... (Yes, I helped other hams in the area with their projects...)
Here is a thought for all of you CB bashers: Passing a series of very simple tests you are given the ANSWERS to beforehand does not give you the right to be arrogant. Hell, I've taken and passed tests in college that covered more material than the whole series of amateur tests do, and I certainly wasn't given the answers beforehand - and I'm definitely no genius... So, get over yourselves and try to play nice with others!
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RE: Is it Just Me? - No...
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by KE4SKY on May 12, 2004
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It's symptomatic of amateur radio in general and the background of where new licensees are coming from. I find the unnecessary use of Q-signals on voice more irritating than CB lingo.
The ARRL Public Service Communication Manual and also the "pink card" clearly indicate that Q-signals are not intended to be used on voice. However, if you want to use them in everyday ham conversation, I suppose there is no harm in doing so.
I teach new operators to use plain language and common terminology, which is the recommended practice for public safety and emergency communications, regardless of the service.
I came to the hobby after having been exposed mostly to CB, Marine VHF and LMR. When I lapsed into old CB and business band habits my Elmers gently corrected me. I now try to do the same for others whenever I can.
If we all did this instead of whining and complaining about the dumbing down of the hobby, there may be enough new amateurs licensed that the service wil continue to exist instead of the spectrum being sold off to commercial interests.
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RE: Is it Just Me? - No...
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by K0BG on May 12, 2004
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Lingo yes, jargon no! Please....drop those esses off the end of 73 and 88, and start using QRZ correctly.
That's my 2¢.
Alan, KØBG
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Anal Retentivenes Redux
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by KA4KOE on May 12, 2004
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Anyone for barbeque ribs at my house? Plenty of Johnny Harris BBQ sauce to go around, and a wash tub full of ice and Rolling Rock to boot.
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But WHY?
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by W5HTW on May 12, 2004
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Once again, for all you Pro-Cber lingo types out there --
Why is it CB is permitted to have its own lingo, yet you frown on ham radio having ITS own lingo? Seems to me if CB is permitted to have its style, ham radio should be permitted to have its own style, too. But you say no. Why is that? Explain it to me in a way those of us who have been in this hobby a while can understand. We do not understand the double standard you seek to impose upon us: CB has CB lingo, ham radio has CB lingo.
Sure you can get angry, and be nasty about it, but after all that is gone, what is the explanation? Why do you insist on removing our traditions and replacing them with yours? Why do you not want to join rather than modify to look like and sound like where you came from? Is it that you think the CB lingo is better, smarter, cuter, fancier, or communicates easier? Is it that it is just too much of a habit to break, like smoking? Is it you simply can't learn a new style? Is it arrogance? Is it just "don't give a damn?" Or perhaps some other reason I just can't guess?
Someone who is so adamantly pro CB lingo on the ham bands should be able to satisfy my curiousity on this subject without taking it as a personal attack, or making it into one.
Thanks for the help
Ed
Why do you insist on converting ham to CB?
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RE: Anal Retentivenes Redux
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by N5BEW on May 12, 2004
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My personal is what is inside my pants...my name is Ken.
I usually just try to speak plain english.
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Is it Just Me?
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by W6EZ on May 12, 2004
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CB lingo is here like it or not. Since the majority of new hams are coming from the ranks of CB it is only natural for the to bring some of the terms and phrases they used there with them.
I found it amusing when I heard a couple of new hams on the repeater using ten codes and some old timer jumped on their cases about it. A conversation followed about CB lingo, like 10 codes, being "bad" and hamspeak being good and when the old timer asked them where they worked they both replied that they were police officers and didn't realize they were using CB lingo because they had never talked on a cb.
If you can't see past the "slang" (and it is really just slang) then you may miss meeting someone or learning somthing.
I will admit if almost fell off my chair laughing the other day when I heard on a local repeater,
"kg6***, Kg6*** dis be kg6### bring in on back break break"
So I must conclude that cb lingo is going to be a much more common thing on ham radio, just as street slang is more common in main stream daily language.
I'm not dissin ya man, I'm just givin ya the 411.
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Is it Just Me?
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by KD5KJD on May 12, 2004
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No, it's not just you... It's been going on for quite a while and will continue, unfortunately. Some of the old CB phrases were at one time Ham phrases and have returned, or rather have gone back and forth with new meanings and new words. Take for instance:
Fine Business... "That sounds great or cool or neato or whatever adjective for 'good'."
Ciao-Ciao... "Goodbye"
Destinated... "I'm here."
Roger... "OK"
XX9XXX for ID... "XX9XXX"
QSL... "Yes" or "acknowledge" or "I see" or even "Uh-huh".
Personal or 'handle' here or Texas Tom (or Missouri Mike) here... "My name is..." or "My name is Tom (or Mike)"
Go 'head or back to you... "Over" (of course this is heard on repeaters WITH a courtesy tone, so go figure).
73's or 'All them good numbers'... 73 and/or 88. Yes, they are SINGULAR for "Best Regards" and "Hugs and Kisses"
I honestly think that some operators think that because they heard a phrase on either band it is common usage or to be accepted. It may be, but it still can't beat plain old English. But then that's my two cents' worth.
So until then, keep it between the ditches, 73's and 88's, catch ya on the flip side good buddy! Come on, Come in!
Or better yet....
Best regards,
Luis KD5KJD
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC8VWM on May 12, 2004
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The fact seems to be that there are many CB operators that have now acquired a ham ticket.
I suppose old habits are hard to break.
I too have heard terms like "roger" - "73's" and other assorted "lingo" style language used on local repeaters.
While this isn't necessarily my main concern, I was however concerned about some "borderline" instances of rule breaking.
Such instances I have recently observed for example are:
Failure to ID every ten minutes during a group discussion net.
Discussing content with other amateurs that was heard over a police scanner on amateur radio frequencies.
Discussing or "advertising" gas prices at a specific brand name gas station, with a specific location given over amateur radio frequencies.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by X-WB1AUW on May 12, 2004
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Hi Bernie
It has been years since I’ve been on 2 meters.
In the past, when I’ve encountered a new ham using CB lingo, I’ve also wondered what to do. One time, I told the new ham that with practice, he’d be able to stop using CB jargon, and use more normal English. I got blasted by someone monitoring the repeater.
I look at it as an indication the person has come from CB where they had to develop the habit of using the jargon. With practicse, they will develop the habit of not using CB jargon on ham radio. Or, they like to aggravate other people, and will insist on being a CBer in ham land.
Fortunately, new hams wind up on 2 meters. It seems to take them a while to get HF privileges. During the time it takes to get on HF, they seem to have un-learned using CB jargon. It is at this point that I encounter new hams now.
Don’t know what I’ll do if people can go from CB straight onto HF, and thus be on HF with the habit of using CB jargon.
Guess one of the big advantages of having to start out with CW was to be imbued in ham radio jargon—can’t imagine anyone, especially at 5-10WPM sending out personal here is Bob, vrs name, or op Bob; your report is “tree top tall” vrs 599; base station vrs rig. I do seem to remember sending more than one R to indicate I received the transmission OK tho. A great advantage being a Novice, was being restricted to Novice sub-bands, and all ops tacitly knowing that the ops in the Novice sub-bands were just “dumb-novices”, new ops.
It seems as if we have to accept that 2 meters is the new “Novice” band. As such, 2 meter ops must be prepared to be inundated by people with the habit of using CB jargon where they first get on the air.
As to how to help the new ops grow into ham radio, I don’t know. Maybe each repeater can adopt a policy about how to help the new ham un-learn CB lingo? Would the policy just be an opportunity for the few malcontent hams to “blast” new comers?
Base upon what you have written, and not written, I trust new hams will be welcomed by you.
Bob
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RE: Anal Retentivenes Redux
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by KB9ERU on May 12, 2004
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<KA4KOE
Anyone for barbeque ribs at my house? Plenty of Johnny Harris BBQ sauce to go around, and a wash tub full of ice and Rolling Rock to boot.>
You know, that's a pretty good idea. We should all get together and chat about this very issue in person. I'll bet that after a full tummy of good 'ol southern ribs and beer, no one will have the energy to whine and complain :)
Maybe we can have a class after dinner on how to spin that big 'ol dial and/or how to shut down your Ray-did-ee-o.
Mick KB9ERU
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Is it Just Me?
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by K3GI on May 12, 2004
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I find that when I've been working CW I revert to Q signals without thinking about it. I got used to the term "Roger" while in the Air Force on UHF AM to aircraft. I was surprised to find it on the ham bands. If we are doing emergency coms then we need to be careful about how we say it to avoid confusion. On an everyday QSO (there I go again), rephrase to, in an informal voice conversation, does it make any difference? The cussing bothers me more than anything else.
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OKAY, we'll eat your ribs for you..
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by KA4KOE on May 12, 2004
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OK, go ahead and bicker about this bit of minutae. The rest of us will just eat your helping of ribs for you...
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Is it Just Me?
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by G0GQK on May 12, 2004
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Am yer tryin' ter tell me yo cor tell wot them gud buddies am speakin abaart wen they'm a talkin' on the rig ? Yo shud live in the black country in the midlands of Englund maert ! They'me all spaekin' loik this and talkin abaart square wales and things, and yo cor understand one waerd they'm a sayin'.
Ta ra fer now, Gud bud. 10/10
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Is it Just Me?
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by KD7ZRO on May 12, 2004
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Well, I got into radio because I was interested in radios and electronics. Before I got my license I used CB, I got my license to get away from the bad operators. Now I really don't care what lingo you use, Lingo does not make the operator, Actions do.
As long as you don't call me a @#!$ eating mother %$#@#$! when I ask for a radio check, I think we will get along pretty good.
Rod KD7ZRO
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Is it Just Me?
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by KD5NVC on May 12, 2004
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I agree that having more of the "CB" slang can be a bit outside the rules and it can upset some people. We all have the right to express how we feel to some degree and within limits.
On the other hand, has anyone listened to 75 and 80 meters? You won't find "CB" slang there! What you will find and a host of rule breaking, vulgar and disrespectful operators. These are not newbee "CB" operators but General and Extra class operators.
Lets clean our own house before we attempt to clean others.
73
Glenn Breaux
KD5NVC
Lafayette, Louisiana
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Is it Just Me?
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by NW5E on May 12, 2004
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The amateur bands today are filled with newcomers to the service. All are welcome. However, lest us forget a few fundamental things:
1 They made the choice to become a ham, no one forced them to do so.
2. There are some basic responsibilities that come with the turf.
a) they had to pass a test, if you call it a test today.
b) they desired to be part of a bigger and better service for the priviledges (note the word privildege).
c) they have a respponsibiley to learn the do's and don'ts both legal and operating procedures.
3. There is and have been gentlemens agreements existing in many cases longer then they have been on earth about band segments, modes in segments, DX windows and the like that they should honor.
4. Many of the newbies forget the fact that it is not a right but a priviledge to operate in the amateur bands and that possessing a license simply gives them the access but does not automatically mean they can do as they wish. _ Big mistake on their part if they think it does.
5. Does the phrase "when in Rome do as the Roman's do" mean anything to them?
There are basic rights and wrongs and all of the misguided liberal political correctness isn't going to change that one bit.
If a new ham asks me, I and most hams will be more than happy to take the time to explain it to them and why. But to drag the CB lingo and ways into the Ham bands is an insult to those who go before them.
This is no different that persons who chose to immagrate to the USA an then refuse to learn English as the primary language.
Enough is Enough!
Gary NW5E
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Is it Just Me?
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by KE4ZHN on May 12, 2004
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Wonderful thing about amateur radio. The tranceivers have this amazing feature...its called a vfo. And when that fails to remedy the problem, it has another amazing button on it...its called the power button.
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RE: OKAY, we'll eat your ribs for you..
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by KC8VWM on May 12, 2004
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>>>OK, go ahead and bicker about this bit of minutae. The rest of us will just eat your helping of ribs for you... <<<
F.Y.I.,
Apparently, we are not eating expensive ribs anymore. Rather, we are feasting on ripe Dayton hamfest hotdogs.
:)
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RE: OKAY, we'll eat your ribs for you..
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by KC8VWM on May 12, 2004
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>>>This is no different that persons who chose to immagrate to the USA an then refuse to learn English as the primary language.
Enough is Enough!
Gary NW5E <<<
Yeah, I remember "immagrating" to the USA and had to give up my native speaking Canadian english language.
Now, I can speak American eh...
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Jeez! Talk about stirring the pot.
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by AB9AX on May 12, 2004
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Its a relatively free country, and that means to some it is time to post a topic like this to stir the pot. If this is your idea of a good time, you might consider having your mental / emotional health professionally evaluated.
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CBers' on the ham bands
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by RADIO123US on May 12, 2004
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I see this as a symptom of a much BIGGER problem. The real problem is that we have made it too easy to get a license in the first place. Since ALL the questions are published, just about anyone can get a license by memorizing the answers. If we had REALLY difficult written exam, and didn't publish the questions, maybe a few of the CBers would learn something about operating procedures BEFORE they get their ham tickets.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by MW0KIK on May 12, 2004
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Just a thought...but arent you guys in the states supposed to be into free speach???
I guess not.
Where does it say in any book "thou shalt not say "rodger d good buddy""?
Get a life people......who cares, like the man said he had a good qso.... whats the problem?
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N5MZL on May 12, 2004
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So sayeth WR8D;
*********
Ref N5MZL: Don't you think 2 years is enough on the learning curve? Also i don't want to get into a pissing contest with you om but you called some extras arrogant and self important...then farther down in your comments you talked about most of us being utterly clueless if we walked into "your shop".
I think maybe you used two of your own ideas about yourself to describe some of us. Are you one of those extra operators that i hear about sometime that repairs those cb's for the chickenbander and puts the illegal channels in them and boosts the power out? You're probably right most of us would be lost in your shop.
Have a nice day om
John WR8D:
********
Well, John, let's see now. First off, I hate to say it but your reading skills need a bit of work here.
When I said most of you would be utterly clueless were you to walk into my shop, unless you are also a computer network engineer (or aerospace engineer, or medical doctor, to use a couple of additional examples I cited), no, you would not have a clue. Any more than you would have a clue among any number of different sorts of engineers, scientists, doctors, etc, any more than I would outside of my area of expertise. And in large measure this is due to the specialized JARGON that different groups use. Arrogance doesn't have anything to do with it. This is reality. Deal with it.
Now, what is so hard to understand about that, "om"? Hmm?
Next, while I'm not sure what this "2 years" reference of yours means, but I'm going to guess and say that somehow you know someone who has been licensed for 2 years who still uses CB lingo. Something else I said in my previous post is that "unless you are a complete idiot, you will notice that people on the ham bands do use different slang than on CB, and so change accordingly" or words to that effect. And add that that, as I ALSO stated before, that there are indeed some flaming idiots on the ham bands, then yes, it is possible there are people out there who have been licensed for a while who still use their CB "good buddies", "that's a big 10-4's", etc.
And your point is...?
So what would you have us do? Revoke their licenses? As far as I know, even these boneheads are not in violation of FCC regulations. If they were, I reckon that ol' Hollingsworth and the boys would have at least sent them a nastygram by now. That being the case, what are you left with? You can always shun them. That's what that big fat knob on the front of your radio (it's called a VFO) is for. If it bothers you so much hearing that kind of CB talk, change frequencies, repeaters or whatever. Or just tell them you don't like that kind of talk on the ham bands. Very likely he will tell you to get bent, but you will have made your displeasure known, and that should make you feel better.
And where do you live that it's so bad to start with? Two meters and 70cm here in Houston is pretty dead actually, certainly compared to what it was 10 years ago, but what little traffic there is does not usually include CB talk. Have not heard much of this sort of thing on HF either, again, as I mentioned before.
Finally, to answer your really rather silly last question, I hold a general, not an extra, and I've never tricked out a CB in my life. That's not my area of expertise...:)
Bottom line, you are still making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Have a nice day yourself, "om", and remember this next time; don't come to a gunfight unarmed. You WILL lose...:)
73 de N5MZL
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N5MZL on May 12, 2004
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One thing I wanted to add, after getting to the end of the thread, is that the argument about the tests being too easy, they give the questions out, etc, ad nauseam, is an old one, and it's just as specious now as it was 20-odd years ago when I heard the very same damn thing.
You still have to learn Morse to become active on HF, that has not changed, and I have no doubt that it takes just as much effort now to learn the code as it did in the days of yore. And no, you don't have to know 13 wpm to get your General like I did, or 20 for Extra. So what? There were just as many lids on the bands 20 years ago as there are now, and learning Morse did not keep them out.
I was in a local ham store the other day and picked up an Extra class study manual. And you know what? I don't care if they had the questions and answers in that book. It's no guarantee that you will be asked the SAME questions with the SAME answers. And I know I could not pass that test to save my life. I'll have to learn trigonometry first, for one thing, and find me some of those memory pills I see advertised, so I can remember all that stuff besides.
And the General theory test is harder now (more material) than it was when I took it.
Anyway, you all get the point. It's not about testing, it's not about CBer becoming hams and using their lingo on the ham bands (most will get away from that in time anyway, simply by listening; a few boneheads may not, but even they will figure it out eventually).
If there is a problem, it is with the culture as a whole, of which amateur radio is only a small part, and what is tolerated and what is not. And the kicker is, it's not so much what we as hams allow to happen, it's what the culture allows nowadays.
Something to think about...
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RE: It is Just You :)
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by KF4VGX on May 12, 2004
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I know what the problem is ! I know ,I know ?
Er ? What was the question
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 12, 2004
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Ref N5MZL: I could'nt turn the vfo om, i own the repeater they were trashing. It still goes on here in east ky and southern wva. You're also right they cussed me out when i tried to make them into ham operators. They did'nt cuss Riley though, now i don't have any problems at all. They're banned from my machines. Honestly its terrible in some parts of the country though. Sorry i was just jerking your chain a little on the other comments no hard feelings.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K5XS on May 12, 2004
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Wow. I thought I was asking innocently enough for others' views on a reasonable topic. What I have gotten is a good smattering of intelligent and politely expressed views, accompanied by a greater amount of insults and scorns.
How disappointing. I've been called arrogant, ignorant, immature, and pious in a message thread that was intended to result in a reasonable discussion.
Too bad every thread here seems to degenerate to mean spirited name calling.
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Is it Just Me?
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by KG4WPJ on May 12, 2004
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Hey I have an idea.
Lets just drop the code and let a 25 question test stand in the way of HF privlages.
It looks like it want be long.
"Then watch out HF,here they come" :-)>
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by KC2FTN on May 12, 2004
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<snip> "I notice all the ham/cb examples involve 2 meters fm.
Why don't you qsy to HF and forget about it."
I find quite the contrary. Alot of 2-meter ops are reletively new hams, who speak with such precision you'd swear Riley was listening in. Heck, they even ID too!
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Is it Just Me?
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by N7ZSD on May 13, 2004
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HOLY CRAP! Did poor Bernie open a can of worms or what? I came to eham.net to learn a little bit more about my new HF rig. (after 11 years of being a tech I am in the process of getting my General...been lazy).
I am excited about getting on HF, so I wanted to learn more here on eham.net. However, I got caught up in the forum thing here, and after reading some new posts realized that I am spending more time here than dinking with my new rig. After tommorrows test, I hope I can spend as much time and effort actually practicing my new priveleges as some hams do bitching about the way others use theirs.
.-.-.-
Geez, can't we all just get along?
"As far as I'm concerned, I prefer silent vice to ostentatious virtue" -- Albert Einstein
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KL7IPV on May 13, 2004
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Who cares? We do this hobby to communicate. If you feel strongly about someone using "CB language", make some gentle suggestions while you're talking to "correct" their errors. In the meantime, I will just enjoy talking to others no matter how they talk. How else does one learn about another?
73
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KA4ETR on May 13, 2004
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That's the same thing they said about Adolf Hitler in 1936! Just another nutty guy using bad language and wearing baggy clothes. Nothing to worry about. Nobody was laughing in 1940! NO disrespect intended toward your comments. I'm just a little worried this might be the start of the end of Ham Radio as we know it. Maybe not now, but maybe 10 years from now.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 13, 2004
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Ref KA4ETR: I agree, but many think because they don't hear it where they live that the rest of us are just making all this up. Folks its not as simple as a few people just saying a few things for fun related to cb while they are on the hambands either. There's people out there in many parts of the country intent only in doing what ever they can do to upset older hams. I myself have been cussed and told "they" were going to change us! The reason i got cussed was i suggested after they had been licensed for a little over two years that they use their "hamcalls" instead of calling each other by their cb handle. Simple as that. Some here have referred to 75 and 80 meters too. Most times if you'll check out the operator that sounds so stupid, or is saying something rude you'll find out he's only been a ham a few years. We call them "chickenband hams". Now don't get me wrong, there's not a thing wrong with talking on the cb. Just leave the cb crap on 11 meters when you come to the hambands. Also like the fellow said up the thread, just wait till the new proposal gets passed. We've not seen anything yet, and we can't go on what has happened in the past either. This is a totally differant time and really sick attitudes with no respect for even themselves abound. Not at all like it was 20 years ago. The brotherhood of being a ham and the respect toward each other is going down the drain due to many of the 25 year veteran of cb with his operating practices. They did it on cb, they do it on the hambands. Last week in the extra portion of 75 some of us were talking about this very subject as one of these types was "trying" to qrm us playing music in the extra band. Think about it! We'll all get a taste of it sooner or later. No the sky isn't falling but we're being dumbed down to the point where in many places the hambands sound exactly like chickenband.
73
John WR8D
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Enough already
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by VA3BRR on May 13, 2004
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I became a ham via the CB route. Two other friends also became hams. Now the only people from the group we can talk to is us. No one is intersted in getting licensed, and quite frankly I don't blame them. What does amateur radio have to offer them.....not much. They join us at ham swaps and see a group of people that for the most part really aren't interested in talking to, they come online to read these forums and just see day after day of bitching over rediculous things and people trying to elevate themselves and make themselves something their not. I don't blame them one bit for not getting licensed. CB lingo doesn't bother me one bit on the ham bands as long as it was someone who had something to say.
Well 10-4 big buddy catch ya on the flip side
Brian
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Is it Just Me?
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by WB5KHC on May 13, 2004
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The CW portions of our bands are thankfully exempt from this "noise". Come join us for the way ham radio used to be!
Tom WB5KHC
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Is it Just Me?
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by KB7YOU on May 13, 2004
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Hi N7ZSD - First, congratulations on your upcoming General. I was a Tech plus for 10 years. Decided that I wanted more HF privileges so I could do more CW and work more HF digital modes. I also like SSB and portable ops. I've been a general since last October and I'll be an Extra next month.
Anyway, the secret to getting good stuff out of eHam is to avoid the main page forums. I go right to the forum list and go directly to the topics I’m interested in. There is a lot less noise in the directed forums. Having said that, I do find the main page forums interesting as well as entertaining. When I have time to kill I always head to eHam. There really is some great information on this site.
Anyway, good luck, have fun and see you on the air.
73
Chris
KB7YOU
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by AH6GI on May 13, 2004
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On Q-sigs on voice....
I agree that saying "the QTH is xxxx" and "I'm going QRT now." seems a little stilted but what's wrong with saying,
"I've been enjoying the QSK in my new radio..." instead of "I've been enjoying the full break-in capability of my new radio..."
"You do QRP? I just built one of those tuna radios and..."
"You do low power operation? I just built one of those tuna radios and ..."
"Hey, how about QSL'ing this QSO?"
"Hey, how about sending me a post card to confirm our contact?"
de ah6gi/4
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W4AMP on May 13, 2004
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Here is an ad from an advanced class op:
WTB 940 RADIO THAT DOES NOT WORK
LOOKING FOR JUNKER 940 FOR A PARTS RADIO I PREFER THAT THE RADIO NOT BE LIGHTING HIT AS I NEED REPLACEMENT BOARDS TO KEEP MY 940 GOING FOR MANY YEARS TO COME. I HAVE EMEDIATE NEED FOR A ROOF REPLACEMENTMY WIFE BROKE BAD WITH A HAMMER WHEN I WAS NOT AT HOME AND DENTED THE TOP IN SEVERAL PLACES. SHE DIDENT LIKE IT WHEN THE DIVORCE PAPERS WERE SERVED ON HER. SHE IS NO LONGER WITH ME THANK THE LOARD.
Listing #412514 - Submitted on 5/12/04 by Callsign KJxxx
10-4? C'mon?
Why is it the advanced and extras post ads like that? Even if he could copy code, how the hell would he be able to read the copy? And that call is already about 15 years old.
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Is it Just Me?
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by WA8VBX on May 13, 2004
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Does it really hurt the conversation? I work for a Police Department as a dispather for police/fire/rescue, and sometimes ham radio/work overlap. I have said 10-4 on 2 meters after a hard days work, more then once.
As hams we use QTH and QRZ etc while talking. They were made up to make cw go faster. Does saying QTH make a conversation go faster then say I live at.
Every hobby has it's own lingo, and if the station you listened to was new, after awhile he will catch on, then again there is other things to worry about.
If the two stations understood each other and were communicating then they saw no problems with it.
Kurt (10-8, clear, Out)
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by N2EY on May 13, 2004
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Where ya been?
The infiltration of cb lingo into the ham bands has been going on for at least 20 years. Particularly on repeaters.
I don't like it one bit, but I don't lecture people about it. No reason to do that, particularly on the air, and it doesn't work anyway.
Instead, I simply "set a good example". Like this:
Some years back I had the following exchange on a local repeater:
(other ham): "...N2EY, thanks for the call. Personal here is Sam and I'm mobile on Route...."
(me): "...glad to meet you, Sam, I'm also mobile. Name here is Jim, rig is....."
After a while Sam got the idea. No lectures, no snide comments, no problems.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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by K5IQ on May 13, 2004
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Don't get TOO upset! I've certainly used parody CB lingo (just being silly) and I've been a ham for 35 years!
But, I get a kick out of hams who get worked up over the term "handle," thinking it comes from CB, when in reality CBers picked it up from hams! I think the CB term "personal" was an attempt--particularly by the ham-wannabe SSB ops--to add some distance between them and the "Rubber Ducky"-type CBers.
Ah, well...every specialized interest has its jargon...QSL?
73,
Bob
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N2EY on May 13, 2004
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Good points, K5IQ!
"Handle" used to mean just "name". But when the cb craze got into full swing, it took on a completely different meaning - specifically, it means an on-air alias used to avoid giving one's real name. Hardly something any red-blooded, all-American, law-abiding ham wants to be a part of.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KB5PQL on May 13, 2004
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I just care about personality. A few weeks back I was lectured on 40m about why I should not operate 10,12 and 15meters (because it was nothing more than CB) then continuted to bash me about my 300ohm fed dipole even though I worked a ZL on 20m SSB the night before on 25 watts. In addition, this person quizzed me to no end about my antenna system in order to make the point that he thought it sucked. Uh, I've been quized back when I took my exam bozo! ;) If that makes you feel good about yourself than that's good for you. I've been a ham since '92 and hold a General class License passing a 13wpm code test. I don't care what you say..as long as you say it with class and respect!
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Is it Just Me?
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by K0PD on May 13, 2004
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10-4 good buddies....what's yer 20 cb friend.....and so on...I'll bet the ham lanquage has changed over the year's.I'm willing to bet that most who come from cb will not be using there old radio lingo in just a few week's on the air....Then there are the trucker's who use both ham and cb.....In alot of the time they will slip a little trucking cb lingo in and that's to be expected.So i guess what i'm saying is just lighten up and enjoy life..
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by NN2G on May 13, 2004
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Ah Negatory, negatory , we hams aint done using none of thems CB language. Hold on a a second.... Breaker 146.520 any one got a copy? Wheres my 20? In my wallet...Haw haw haw ....And thats a BIG 10-FOR. And whats this about CW anyway? I like CW been listening it since I was a youngen. Country Western music ain't going away no matter what... hot dog! Dang I have to get some SWR for that rusty door or is it WD40 or something like that. Heck y'all keep that sunnsyside up and we is gonna catch ya on the flip side Mercy Sakes, I be reeden the mail hear on channel 14 y'all know...on them 14 meters, I guess whatcha call 14 mhz, darn confusing the heck out of me. I be on the side Good Buddy, ya have a good one today and a better one tommorow an keep the pedal to the metal.....Mercy Sakes...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K0RS on May 13, 2004
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Dumb CB jargon, dumb ham jargon...there is no difference. It's an ersatz language that may be of interest the etymologist, but is the bane of the conversationalist. It serves two purposes:
1. It identifies the speaker as a member of a group. Or, rather more precisely, confers the group identity on the speaker. It's a statement of, "See, I know the language, I belong." People who use jargon (not just hams) see it as a badge of belonging, and don't find it silly at all. They think it conotes experience, rather than the lack of it. It shows they've been around long enough to have the dialect down pat.
2. It relieves the speaker of the onus of having to think. That is to say, one can put a "conversation" together without having to actually come up with any original ideas. There is another thread going now on eHam called "You call that a QSO?" It decries the use of macros in digital contacts as a substitute for real conversation. Well, that's exactly what ham/CB jargon is, just verbal macros. How many SSB/FM contacts have you heard that could have been carried on with just digital voice keyers, no human intervention needed?
"Handle here is Bob, that's Broken Old Bottles, heh, heh..."
"You're armchair copy..."
"See you on down the co-ax..."
Whether it's, "3's and 8's and all the good numbers on ya.."
Or,
"I'm gonna QSY into the home QTH 'cuz I'm destinated..."
It's all a pretty poor substitute for a genuine, well thought out conversation...one that doesn't replicate the last contact exactly.
It's tough to come up with something genuine to say to someone that one doesn't know and to whom one has never even spoken before. As a group we are facinated with the medium of radio...RF communication...so we want to make contacts, just to enjoy the magic of radio. But what to say? Enter jargon, the saving grace. An instant, self-generating, non-communicative QSO.
Look at it as a challenge. Drop the lingo, be it CB, ham, computer geek, or whatever. Speak English, (at least for us North Americans, anyway). Try to think of something genuine and original to tell your potential new friend about yourself. You've got nothing to lose but your stereotype.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KU2US on May 14, 2004
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OK-here is a good one. I was a chicken bander from 1975 to 1979, when I got out of it and took my novice test, I have been an advanced for over 22 years now. The other day I had to borrow my friends car because mine was in the shop. I looked down under the dash, and to my HORROR, there it was, a CB? I could not help my self, I guess. I switched it on and was listening to channel 19. I heard this guy transmitting-"Break for a good buddy-Break for a good buddy". I said what the hell, I answered him. The guy asked me again if I was sure I was a "good buddy"? I said YES, why all of the concern, I sure was not a "Bad buddy"? Another CB'er broke in and told me that he realized I was not familiar with CB lingo. He then informed me that a "good Buddy" was a homosexual male, and its been that way for years? I then informed both guys that I was not any kind of "buddy". Now maybe this is a local/regional thing, but I was shocked..Now sexual preferences are seeping in to CB, and it will happen to Ham radio too, if we let this GARBAGE continue. In another reply, it was stated that some hams are elitists or the hobby/service is a some kind of country club, and he is damned RIGHT. At least thats the way is WAS. You earned your license because you had a desire to belong to an ELITE group of radio operators, adhereing to a strict code of operation and behavior. NOT ANYMORE. Now I am told that my advanced license might be upgraded to extra automatically, if the ARRL has its way? When I here "roger-D", "My burner is on-how do I sound?", "Radio check", and the one that pisses me off the most-"RADIDDIO", I want to PUKE. YES-CB has its own language-KEEP IT THERE, & Ham radio has its own too! Thats what distinguishes the two, Its a recognition thing. Maybe I am being to harsh, but I had to work my butt off to be an "Elite Ham Radio Operator", & knowing now, what I know about CB, and what it has become, I will not tolerate it on any band. Yes, we have our idiots too. The ones who swear, the ones who interfere, and the FOOLS who have that "List Lizard" website, But all-in-all, most hams are a good bunch of people. CB'ers, 27Mhz is all yours, you are welcome to join us anytime, if you want more out of radio, but dont bring the CRAP with you, its hard enough to weed out our own CRAP.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 14, 2004
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by N6CRR on May 11, 2004
"
It's you good buddy
If you don't like what I have to say, or the way I say it, then use that knob called power button. It's called free speech. "
Wow.
Where did you get your concept of the principle of free speech?
"
By the way, I love being corrected by self anointed, purity of ham speech police.
If I use good buddy, or handle or anything you don’t approve of tough cookies. "
This kind of logic is absolutely amazing.
Here - let's have a little demonstration:
You're a moron. You've clearly shown it with
your posts.
Remember now, I have free speech - you said so. So I can say whatever I want to. And if you don't like it,
"tough cookies", and you should be reaching for the power button on your monitor right now, so you can just turn it off.
My point is: It is just this sort of attitude - 'I'll do what I want to, and to heck with you if you don't like it', that is becoming more prevalent as time goes by, and is NOT a good thing for ham radio. This is exactly to what the originator of this series was referring.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 14, 2004
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"
by W5HTW on May 11, 2004
Well you used the phrase "CB lingo." And that is what it is. It is a manner of speaking that is decidedly CB and people find nothing wrong with it.
So why do they find it wrong that ham radio has (had)its manner of speaking? Why can't we have our own mannerisms, our own lingo, if CB is permitted to have its style? "
Two very excellent questions, illustrating two very good points.
"But, no, the newer hams want to transfer the CB lingo to ham radio. We are not permitted, in their eyes, to play the game a bit differently. They want to dilute ham radio, and they are doing so. "
Exactly.
"
Why is it when a CBer becomes a ham, he can't play by our traditions, but has to revise them, convert them? "
Another excellent question, illustrating the point.
"
That shows a complete lack of respect for ham radio and its style. "
You've summed it up very, very well with this statement.
"
So, no, you are not wrong. The dilution is well under way. It will continue. "
Regarding dilution under way, you are correct. As to it continuing, I fear you may be correct, but hope you are not.
We are fortunate to have forums such as this, so that we can bring these things to light an discuss them.
It couldn't be done on the air.
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RE: Is it Just Me? - Reply
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by WILLY on May 14, 2004
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"
by N6AJR on May 12, 2004
If you don't like it.. turn it OFF "
There seems to be this view here, in more than one post.
Using this ham's post as an example, since it is so short, it would seem reasonable to use their own logic and reply: If you didn't like ham radio the way it was, then why did you join it? In other words, if you don't like it, turn it off.
I remember quite well, that I surely didn't want to change anything when I first entered the ranks of ham radio. I found the world of ham radio fascinating and couldn't wait to learn more about it, from those with experience, that knew.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 14, 2004
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"
by KC8ZQM on May 12, 2004
You know maybe I'm too new to the hobby for this to bother me, but I don't see the big deal. "
I'll try to elaborate.
"
I agree with a lot of guys that are saying the humor of some operators is good to break up the monotony and - get this- might make folks realize that ham radio is fun. "
When something is said in good fun, I agree. A good laugh is almost always a good thing.
"
As for "acting like hams," what the hell does that mean? Common sense tells someone to act in a responsible fashion. "
As we all know, one should listen more than one transmits.
Listening is (should be) an excellent way to find examples of correct behavior. It used to be.
However, if poor behavior is continually tolerated, that means that it is nominally acceptable.
Now where are you? You are correct in that common sense should tell one to act in a responsible fashion. However, if one's examples are behaving like idiots, then this next generation is lost as to knowing what is good behavior and what is not.
This is why so many hams are concerned with what they hear. They don't want it to multiply.
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RE: But WHY?
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by WILLY on May 14, 2004
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"
by W5HTW on May 12, 2004
Once again, for all you Pro-Cber lingo types out there --
Why is it CB is permitted to have its own lingo, yet you frown on ham radio having ITS own lingo? Seems to me if CB is permitted to have its style, ham radio should be permitted to have its own style, too. But you say no. Why is that? Explain it to me in a way those of us who have been in this hobby a while can understand. We do not understand the double standard you seek to impose upon us: CB has CB lingo, ham radio has CB lingo.
Sure you can get angry, and be nasty about it, but after all that is gone, what is the explanation? Why do you insist on removing our traditions and replacing them with yours? Why do you not want to join rather than modify to look like and sound like where you came from? Is it that you think the CB lingo is better, smarter, cuter, fancier, or communicates easier? Is it that it is just too much of a habit to break, like smoking? Is it you simply can't learn a new style? Is it arrogance? Is it just "don't give a damn?" Or perhaps some other reason I just can't guess? "
Adding another question to your list:
Is it because they don't have the love and respect for the hobby that you do? Is it because they never did?
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Is it Just Me?
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by AA6E on May 14, 2004
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What about the following principles?
-Treat people with respect. (No matter what their regional accent, CB vocabulary, etc.)
-Lead by example.
Do as ye'd be done by, as the Philosopher said.
The worst kind of operating on VHF is NO operating. I.e., dead air is the enemy of ham radio. (We have it by the ton in New England.) "Use it or lose it" is another principle to think about.
-73
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RE: Leave CB jargon on CB, please.
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by WA4MJF on May 14, 2004
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KA3RFE,
Wife is XYL, a YL is an unmarried
woman.
73 de Ronnie
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Is it Just Me?
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by KA3POY on May 14, 2004
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It's not just you.
I cringe when I hear CB operating jargon, usually on 40 meters SSB nets.
It may be legal but it doesn't make us sound smart or sophisticated.
73 and best wishes to all amateurs,
N5IIT
was KA3POY
ps - CB lingo easily avoided by operating CW or AM :)
pps - I always thought "roger that" was military, not CB lingo.......
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WA4MJF on May 14, 2004
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N5ITT,
"Roger that" is a military term when
talking in person, on the radio it
is just Roger (I understood your
transmission). When the transmission
is directive in nature, you say WILCO
(I understood and WILl COmply)only. They're
probably not around any more, but those
radio ops that also did CW/RATT would
some times uses Charlie (Confirm) on
voice, instead of Roger. In person, "that is a Charlie".
FULL STOP
Also, someone said that you don't need
over on a repeater with a beep. The
beep on repeaters around here resets the
timer. When you're not through, but
need to reset the timer, you let go of
the release to listen button, wait for the
tone and continue. When you're
ready to turn it over to the other station
you say over. Hearing a beep doesn't mean
the station is through with his/her transmission.
Handle has been a ham radio term forever :-)
73 de Ronnie
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Is it Just Me?
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by W4CLM on May 14, 2004
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Just tell him to keep his personal in his Pants !!
That usually blows 'em away !
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC8VWM on May 14, 2004
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>>>If I use good buddy, or handle or anything you don’t approve of tough cookies.<<<
I don't believe the term "tough cookies" is a term that is relative to the required CB jargon criterion for 11 meters.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N1SY on May 14, 2004
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I stongly disagree with your critique of what a real ham language should be. In my opinion maturity has nothing to do with using the correct procedures that "us real hams" use. Using cb lingo only shows that the persons using it, shows a disrespect for "us hams" who went through the perverabial ringer to get the privileges that we earned and use. And your verbage shows immaturity on your part provoking those that do.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W5HTW on May 14, 2004
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DARN! I've been all through here and so far no-one has taken up the challenge I presented! That is, to explain to me, and many others, why CB lingo and traditions are OK, and ham lingo and traditions are not. Why is it hams are required to adopt CB lingo and traditions? Why are we not permitted to retain our own identity, instead of assuming that of CB radio?
Reminds me of those who come to our country and want us all to speak Spanish.
So is the answer: too lazy to change? too dumb to change? too buried in habits to change? too self-indulgent to change? too self-important to change? too disrepectful of your new environment to change? or a combination of several or all of the above?
We hams, we OTs, do not object in the slightest to your use of CB lingo - on the CB band! We object to your refusal to 'join' our hobby, but instead your choice to corrupt it and turn it into the hobby you allegedly have left. You have your traditions, over 40 years' worth of them. We have ours. But you won't let us have ours. You insist we have yours. So pick a reason above and tell me what it is.
73
Ed
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K1CJS on May 14, 2004
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Why is everyone so upset over nothing? Do what a lot of us do.....just politely use the correct terminology, teach by doing. Hey, news flash--HAM RADIO IS A HOBBY! Why people get so worked up about nothing is beyond reason. If you want political correctness, use a cel telephone--and get off the ham bands AND the 11 meter band, too. 10-4 good buddy?
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 15, 2004
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by W5HTW on May 14, 2004
"
...
We hams, we OTs, do not object in the slightest to your use of CB lingo - on the CB band! We object to your refusal to 'join' our hobby, but instead your choice to corrupt it and turn it into the hobby you allegedly have left. You have your traditions, over 40 years' worth of them. We have ours. But you won't let us have ours. You insist we have yours. So pick a reason above and tell me what it is. "
Very clear.
Very succinct.
Very good.
Thank you.
73
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WILLY on May 15, 2004
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by K1CJS on May 14, 2004
"
Why is everyone so upset over nothing? "
Obviously, many do not consider it to be nothing.
"
Do what a lot of us do.....just politely use the correct terminology, teach by doing. "
This is an excellent thing to do, on the air. However, forums like this are excellent places to discuss topics to degrees that cannot and should not be on the air.
"
Hey, news flash--HAM RADIO IS A HOBBY! Why people get so worked up about nothing is beyond reason. "
Of course, you are allowed your own opinion of what constitutes nothing. Again, there are many that have a tremendous respect for the hobby that do not consider the degradation of it to be nothing. In and of itself, our topic is not enough to really become upset over, although it is certainly worth discussing here.
What IS upsetting, is when it appears that there are so many hams that demonstrate a 'who cares' attitude!
What a shame.
"
If you want political correctness, use a cel telephone--and get off the ham bands AND the 11 meter band, too. 10-4 good buddy? "
Political correctness is not the topic. Respect for the hobby is.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 15, 2004
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Ref KC0ERG: Hi Hi is the way we show laughter in cw. Its just carried over to other modes. When i first started working cw in 82 thats what i was taught.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 15, 2004
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Ref W5HTW: Ed you hit the nail on the head. Its just part of the problem i had with them here locally. Many of them have been on cb for 25 years or more. They come into the hobby already legends in their own minds. I have seen many go from cb to extra class in a few short months and had some of these folks look me in the eye and tell me they were going to change us! Several of the older hams here locally tried to elmer these people and it was a waste of time. For an example one of these types has been extra for over two years now and still can't grasp the fact that his cb antenne just for some reason will not work on 80 meters. This is our future, many up the thread say just turn the vfo or turn the rig off. If we all keep doing this and turning the other cheek imagine what the hambands are going to be like in a very short time. We all need to be nice and polite and give them a chance to get it right. After many many months of time has gone by and you still hear this crap its time to just jump in with both feet. The sky is not falling flamers, but the bands will not be as we have known them in a few more years if we don't do something about this. I don't care if you passed 20wpm or 5 wpm. Bottom line is you passed the test and you are an amateur operator. Act like one, talk like one, be above what you left on the cb band.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by GONNAB1 on May 15, 2004
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I wanted to add something.I guess this forum doesn't allow editing to posts,so here's another
.It seems most of this has to do with 2 meters...well,it's the no-code req that got you all the CBer's,isn't it?They like fancy radios with freq displays!!However,let's all remember the other bands for a moment! I was always embaressed when I was listening to 3898 kcs and someone would enter the room......wonder whatever happened to those guys?Then there was the bunch on 10 meters in the early 90's from Texas...one was always drunk and the others were just plain obnoxious.How any of these guys ever passed a test is amazing...I'll bet they signed their licence with an X.So,really,is a little '20' or 'flipper' or any CB jargon all that bad? Rooogggeerrr that!
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W6TH on May 15, 2004
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No it is not just you, concerns most on the ham bands of just today. In time there will be no older ham radio operators and the remaining will be just CB'ers.
The use of "HANDLE" from the beginning was used to express your name and not name as it is used today. "BTU" back to you is used and that is RTTY talk and not ham radio talk as the way to turn it over to another ham is to use "BCK" for back and not "BK". "BK" means break and not back. This CB lingo is very common today and will be carried on for many generations to come.
As ham radio is dumbed down, so will the lingo that goes with it. Ham radio will without a bit of doubt turn towards the CB, so grin and bare it.
I believe that all good things must come to an end and as the fall of Roman empire so will be the fall of America, history repeats itself. Ham radio will fall and come into the hands of the CB'ers, so cheer up as better days are ahead.
Be ready at the twinkle of an eye.
.:
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Is it Just Me?
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by WA2JJH on May 15, 2004
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No friend it is not just you!
2M has the worst of it. It did filter down to HF.
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Is it Just Me?
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by N1XV on May 15, 2004
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No, Its not just you.This filth is a true barometer of the dumbing down of ham radio. I have been accused(and rightfully so) of being an elitist snob, very good. Im quite happy to point and laugh my head off at idiots with twin whips on their pickup trucks. Now I have to hear this %$#@# on the local repeater. Ok,Festus yak all you want, and hams like myself will be right there to correct you and others like you until you either understand that ham radio isnt a toy or be laughed off the air. Better yet CB'r,when your done cleaning my toilet at work Ill have you tutored in how to have a correct conversation,that is if you can comprehend what correct actually entails. Now lets go and stay on the cw subbands where its safe. Thanks and 73! Vaughn-N1XV NOt an old fart (37 years)
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K1CJS on May 15, 2004
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By willy:
"Of course, you are allowed your own opinion of what constitutes nothing. Again, there are many that have a tremendous respect for the hobby that do not consider the degradation of it to be nothing. In and of itself, our topic is not enough to really become upset over, although it is certainly worth discussing here. What IS upsetting, is when it appears that there are so many hams that demonstrate a 'who cares' attitude! What a shame."
I happen to agree with you there. But again, the 'who cares' ham is in the minority, and if one is heard, just refuse to talk to him his way. The majority of hams DO care. And please don't start with the the 2 meter group either, the HF frequencies are just as bad.
"Political correctness is not the topic. Respect for the hobby is."
You earlier said:
"Again, there are many that have a tremendous respect for the hobby that do not consider the degradation of it to be nothing."
In other words, you want everyone to communicate in the correct, accepted way on the bands, or don't get on at all. That, sir, is rampart political correctness, just as the statement "respect for the hobby" implies.
I submit that those who demand such correctness are as bad as those who insist on trying to infuse the dreaded 'CB jargon' onto the ham bands, or those who insist on transplanting CW terminology, abbreviations, and Q signals to phone.
We should be able to use the bands and get along with other hams without making a big deal of this. However, I must agree with one point made by W5HTW:
"We hams, we OTs, do not object in the slightest to your use of CB lingo......We object to your refusal to 'join' our hobby, but instead......to corrupt it and turn it into the hobby you allegedly have left. You have your traditions, over 40 years' worth of them. We have ours. But you won't let us have ours. You insist we have yours."
In other words, those who insist on using that lingo should not expect us to also use it. Everyone slips once in a while. Its no big deal if it happens, but the continued and unrestrained use of CB jargon should be done on the 11 meter band, not the ham bands.
There is not one person alive today that is perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. Condamning anyone because of occasional use of unacceptable jargon is insane. Finally, I'll quote the universal lament: "Why can't we all just get along?" 73.
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Is it Just Me?
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by K0VJ on May 16, 2004
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On a related subject, why has it suddenly become trendy to refer to our hobby as HAM radio in ALL CAPS? Is this a predominantly online trend, such as typing "loose" when referring to the failure to win or "hugh" when writing about something really large, or has it spilled over into the digital modes as well?
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Is it Just Me?
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by WS4Y on May 16, 2004
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The problem Bernie is that you are operating
on 2 meters. Many operators on this band are
no coders that have come from the CB ranks.
The solution is to unplug your mic and throw
it away and plug in that key and get on 30 meters.
It is the real thing. Good luck Bernie.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WA4MJF on May 16, 2004
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K0VJ,
On the two digital modes I use,
CW and RATT, (RTTY) HAM is in
caps.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K0VJ on May 16, 2004
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Ronnie,
Dang, you're right! Next time I see a message written with A STUCK CAP LOCK KEY, I'll just think of it as RTTY. I do wish that I had been around in the heyday of CW copied on a mill. I remember visiting the shack of a gentleman (now silent key) who had been a radioman aboard a sub in WWII. He copied traffic on an old manual Remington, and it was an amazing sight to behold.
73,
Rick KØVJ
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Is it Just Me?
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by KC8WX on May 16, 2004
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I came from CB sideband way back in 77, worked my way up to Extra over the years and I don't have a problem with the "Base" terminology, I use it myself quite often, because I work so much HF Mobile, the home station is "the Base", so to me it's only legally defined as a Fixed Station. I think that sounds fine on the air.
I don't care for any other "Lingo" beyond that such as you referenced, the "Personal" and the "Flipper", that's totally CB'ish. I wouldn't worry about it though, they will eventually find out their terminology is in the minority and probably loose their old lingo as they continue communicating with more stations.
Warren
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W7UJ on May 16, 2004
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I am a believer in plain english when operating. I don't see a need to use Q signals, etc. when operating on phone. If I give my name I say "name is" not "handle" or "personal". If other operators wish to use lingo, so be it, just not me. It doesn't bother me(well, maybe just a little) and I try to lead by example.
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Is it Just Me?
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by G8UYZ on May 16, 2004
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And this is something new? Here in the UK, CB lingo has permiated the basic language to a worrying degree and has been since the boom of CB in the 1980s went off the boil and they turned to Ham Radio. There were some stunning examples of wrngling the English tongue.
It still happens . . . .
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Is it Just Me?
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by K9GLN on May 16, 2004
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A few years ago as I was leaving the local ham club meeting, a group of us were heading off to a local pizza place. As a police officer I use the ten code daily. On this occasion I was also driving my take home squad car. As is required by department order, I had my departmental radios turned on and I was listening in order to be available for assistance. I am allowed to have a 2 meter radio for emergency communications with the locals RACES/ARES repeater.
One of the group asked me a question, and without thinking I said,"10-4".
I got ribbed pretty good over pizza that evening. I've slipped and said 10-9??? Instead of "repeat". Also I have to remember two sets of Phonic alphabet. ADAM, BOY, CHARLES, DAVID, EDWARD, FRANK for the police side, plus Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta ,Foxtrot for the ham side.
As long as the repeater doesn't digress into the CB lingo heard on Smokey and the Bandit, I can tollerate some minor slang use. Heaven knows I have heard more than enough of that abuse in the 70's and early 80's when we used to have the CB's in squads to monitor the "emergency channel". Except to amuse ourselves, and listening to the prostitutes hailing truckers off the tollways into the truck stop, the radio was generally OFF.
["keep the shinny side up and catch ya on the flip flop, and watch out for the County Mountie taking pictures, good buddy]
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by AE6IP on May 17, 2004
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> Reminds me of those who come to our country and want
> us all to speak Spanish.
You mean it's a myth, cuz those people don't exist, right.
> We hams, we OTs, do not object in the slightest to
> your use of CB lingo - on the CB band! We object to
> your refusal to 'join' our hobby, but instead your
> choice to corrupt it and turn it into the hobby you
> allegedly have left.
Imagine what those of us who have been around the internet for 30 or more years think of your attitude, and your silly use of ham radio jargon in web fora.
> You have your traditions, over 40 years' worth of
> them. We have ours. But you won't let us have ours.
wazza matter, no hable espanol, senor? parlez-vous en francais, mon ami?
> You insist we have yours. So pick a reason above and
> tell me what it is.
d00d. n0 1 is trying to "mak3 U" use any jarg0n. U c4n just sp1n d3 d14l 1f u donna lik d3 jarg0n.
> 73
HTH HAND
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RE: Is it Just Me? - Reply
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by AE6IP on May 17, 2004
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> Using this ham's post as an example, since it is so
> short, it would seem reasonable to use their own
> logic and reply: If you didn't like ham radio the
> way it was, then why did you join it? In other
> words, if you don't like it, turn it off.
Please to be taking your advertisements, web boards, spam, worms, and p0rn back to where ever you came from and leaving our internet the way it was 30 years ago.
thank you. HAND
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Is it Just Me?
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by KA2SEY on May 17, 2004
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Figured... I'd throw my two cents in! The lingo isn't the problem here. The attitude is! What do I mean, well it's simple. Most times in ham radio when an operator is making a mistake, it is up do the operator he/she is in QSO to make the suggestion. This helps the hobby, preserves tradition, and more importantly, helps the "new" ham to fit in. 73's DE KA2SEY
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W7STA on May 17, 2004
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What have we come to? Using deliberate interference with big amps because we don't like the lingo of another HAM? Isn't this illegal, Reilly or anyone, and isn't this what we decry about the 11meter band?
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Is it Just Me?
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by KB1IEY on May 17, 2004
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This may not make you feel better, but at least the hobby is growing and it is atracting those "Good Buddies". You will probably find a good number of HAMs have made the trip over from 11 meters. We all have to start some place. If it wasn't for the 70's CB faze I woulden't be a HAM now. Call it the "AA" ball of HAM radio. Not every HAM gets drafted out of little league.
Welcome to the hobby and enjoy it I say. Beside, it's healthy for the hobby. The more the better.
I'm done.
73's
Scott
KB1IEY
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Is it Just Me?
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by K2PI on May 18, 2004
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No, you are not imagining it. However, you are supposed to ignore it, because this is the "new blood, no-code" influx of Hams we are all supposed to worship as the salvation of Ham Radio.
Shhhhh. Be quiet. The children might hear you. It doesn't matter if they know how to do it, their self-esteem is sooooo high.
K2PI
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W1AWB on May 18, 2004
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Gee...I've been saying "Catch you on the flip side" for years....having made my living as a musician since the early 70s I always assumed it was a music thing...you know...record albums...and since my only exposure to CB has been watching part of Smoky and the Bandit during a late night bout of insomnia, I have no idea where I could have picked it up. The really embarassing part is I've been using it as a closer on 40 meter cw with the guys in the Extra end of the band. Ouch! How humiliatin'!
Andy W1AWB
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Is it Just Me?
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by W1BAK on May 18, 2004
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Boy....the snobs sure came out of the woodwork this time!
Ham Radio is made up of people from all walks of life. Big and small, different colors, rich and poor. Some educated, some not. All with one goal. To talk to one another and offer help to all. No where can you find any FCC rules that say it is illegal to use the phrase "come back" or "catch you later" or any of the other "CB" phrases that seem to make "Real" Ham Radio operators grind their teeth. If you want to be the "phrase police", go right ahead. But I guarantee that you will drive a permanent wedge between yourself and the newcomers. In my town, all it took was to admit you chose to enter Ham Radio via the "no code" route. The 2 meter repeaters are now refered to as "CB repeaters" by the Ham Snobs and they either refuse to work them or refuse all attempts at casual communication directed at them from "no coders". To you Ham Snobs...get a life. If someone is operating in a childish manner, use tact when correcting them. In case you don't know what tact is...tact is telling someone to go to hell in such a manner that they will look forward to the trip.
One more thing, folks. We will all at some point in time, stand before our Creator and don't be surprised if He should say "All the good numbers to you. You're at your home twenty now."
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by RADIO123US on May 18, 2004
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W1BAK, I disagree with you saying that hams are snobs on this issue. The traffic on local 2 meter repeaters are a reflection of the ham communities in those areas, and it is NOT unreasonable to expect them to sound like ham radio repeaters. That is not being snobbish...it is trying to present ourselves in the best possible way to those who may be listening on a scanner..such as local law enforcement during skywarn activities. We had some local ham/CBers who continued to use their CB handles and CB lingo on our local repeater, even after they were privately asked to stop. They didn't see anything wrong with it....it finally got so bad that the repeater starting developing power problem every time they started talking that way on the air...seems kinda stange, doesn't it ? :) They finally got fed up with it and moved on.... My point is, some of these folks cannot be elmered, and it's NOT being a snob to ask them to take their CB talk somewhere else....
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by AB3BK on May 18, 2004
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And just think, soon they will be able to "shoot skip" on HF. I can hear it now........
DX station-
"CQ this is xx2xx"
Lid-
"xx5xx you got a copy on yy5yyy"
DX Station-
"yy5yy you are 59"
Lid-
"you're blowin smoke here in the lone star state, we're just waivin a hand!"
DX Station-
after long pause............"QRZ"
- .... .- -. -.- --. --- -.. ..-. . .-. -.-. .--
73
Dave
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by W1BAK on May 18, 2004
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RADIO123US,
I was not pointing an all encompassing finger at the Ham community. (After all...I'm a Ham, too) The fickle finger was aimed at the those among us that can only see the grain of sand in other's eyes and completely ignore the boulder in their own. One evening I had two rigs going. On my left, I was listening to a group of garbage mouths on 20 and on my right, I had on CB channel 19. It sounded the same. So all you OT's clean your closets before passing judgement, ok?
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Is it Just Me?
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by N9HNO on May 19, 2004
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HELLO BERNIE,
I THINK A LOT OF HAM OPERATORS WHO ONCE WERE CB'ERS SOMETIMES LET THE OLD DAYS SLIP OUT ONCE IN A WHILE. I DONT THINK YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRIE ABOUT, I HAVE HAD MY HAM TICKET SINCE 1981 AND I EVEN SOMETIMES SLIP WITH A COMENT LIKE I WILL CATCH YOU ON THE REBOUND. I DONT THINK IT MAKES YOU BAD AND ANOTHER THING TO REMEMBER THIS IS ONLY A HOBBY AND LIFES TO SHORT TO SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF.WE SHOULD BE MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE FCC LETTING BPL GO THRU CAUSE IF IT DOES NOBODYS LINGO WILL BE HEARD, GOOD OR BAD.
IF YOU THINK WHAT YOU HEARD WAS BAD TRY GOING ON 80 METERS SOMETIMES LATE AT NIGHT OR IN THE EARLY HOURS, SOME OF IT MAKES THE CB'ERS SOUND LIKE SAINTS.
HAVE A GREAT DAY AND RELAX.
73'S
NICK/N9HNO
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by N2JHZ on May 19, 2004
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Admittedly, CB expressions such as "negatory" are up there with "irregardless", but I find it hard to sneer at CB lingo if the alternative is ham lingo. This is hardly a Parnassian standard. If a Miltonic declamatory style of speech were commonplace on the air, then perhaps, if one were out of character, one's attention might be momentarily diverted from Olympian concerns by a random CB-esque transmission. Indeed, the proper fraternal attitude is to encourage a great radio tradition.
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Is it Just Me?
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by HB9CVN on May 19, 2004
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Hello fellows,
It seems quite obvious to me, that somebody who has been on the CB band for a while before becoming a Ham, would carry the CB jargon when switching on the VHF or HF equipment. After all, this is the only way of talking associated with radios he has been using up to now.
At the beginning -I mean the first 100 years...- of our career as Hams, we are continuously learning. We improve our understanding of technical matters and operating procedures like getting through a big pile up. So it seems normal that somebody coming from the CB world will have to learn to do things the way Hams do. Usually by friendly explaining and giving good example you get the result. As fresh licensed, we just wanted to be able to do things like the most experienced.
And yes, every tree does have rotten apples, so even within the Ham community you do find disrespectful individuals. You find such people in every hobby, activity, country, society, etc...
Take this forum; Bernie started it with a polite writing, kindly bringing to our attention this issue. Given the amount of traffic it has generated, it is indeed an issue. Beside, ideas, impressions and answers he also got a great deal of insult and foul language.
I have been a professional telegrapher and almost all my Ham activity is on CW, from pile up when I am in rare countries to 60 WPM ragchewing with INORC members in Europe, but I am aware that with the advent of Internet and the increasingly tough laws about antennas, it is going to be very difficult finding newcomers. Even amateur radio will have to adapt somehow to the new times, so welcome digital modes, no code licences and some few expressions. After all, the expressions used now by the "old guard" were once new.
Best 73's de HB9CVN / 4F3CV Ferdinando, (right now BA/HB9CVN)
By the way, Q code is also used in phone. In aviation we do refer as QNH for atmospherical pressure.
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Is it Just Me?
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by KG6LFN on May 19, 2004
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Please forgive an observation but I don’t know who is worse, the illegitimate operators using amateur bands or the seasoned hams who don’t realize they are engaging in QSO’s with bootleggers. C’mon guys, remember the old adage that if it looks and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. If that fellow you are talking to sounds like a CB’er he probably is a CB’er who got hold of an amateur radio - verify his call sign in the database or disengage the QSO if you smell a rat.
Recently there has been a surge of illegitimate operators on the Los Angeles 2M repeaters probably due to the availability of inexpensive 2M transceivers. I have heard guys asking questions like “Are there any other frequencies that have ham repeaters here?” “What is your ham radio license number?” “What’s a PL?” They use call signs that are non-standard format like a one by five, call signs that are 15 years old and are even brazen enough to brag to their partners in crime about how much better ham repeaters are than the FRS radios they used to use. If someone is using “non-ham speak” I become immediately suspicious of the station’s legitimacy and if I am in the shack I check that stations validity in a database. I hope that we can all become more diligent to this end and prevent our bands from becoming nothing more than the citizens band; remember we are a self-policing hobby!
I welcome the CB’ers who take the time to become licensed amateur radio operators but have the utmost contempt for illegitimate unlicensed bootleggers who disrespect our hobby’s rules.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by K7HDR on May 19, 2004
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I think it all started when they changed Megacycles to Megahertz.
Scott K7HDR
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KB0VVK on May 19, 2004
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I think a lot of people came to ham radio via cb
cb has jargon ham has jargon if you here cb jargon
you know you got a convert.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WA0FDV on May 20, 2004
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(1) It's not just you.
(2) They're here because the FCC and probably the ARRL invited them in.
(3) I call them on it every time.
(4) If I'm going to talk to chicken banders on the ham bands at least they're going sound like hams.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by WR8D on May 20, 2004
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Around six month ago or so the flamers tried to tar and feather me on a subject along these same lines. I think it was something to do with our repeaters sounding like cb. Or our clubs becoming so like a cb club many of us just can't stand to be a part of them..anyway i know its a sad turn of events but i'm glad to see so many finally speak out on this issue. We don't have to be arrogant but we do need to correct these folks. Many will simply just not listen and will actually cuss you out if you try to help them become "hams". One of the cb types i had trouble with here locally actually put a real cber on my 2 meter machine. We can not just sit on our hands while these activities are taking place. All we have to do to loose our bands is sit and do nothing. Many will just turn the vfo. Now some smart ass will probably call those of you that feel like me "radio police". We just love amateur radio and want to keep it sounding like "amateur radio" , not chickenband. One gentleman up the thread is a professional and his job calls for him to use 10 codes and he makes a slip from time to time. I have state police friends and county deputys that do the same thing. They have 2 meter rigs in their police cars and its easy for a professional to make a slip once in a while. Thats not what we're talking about here though. Much of this lingo you hear is deliberate and intended to simply piss the older hams off. Simple as that.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by N2JHZ on May 20, 2004
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In Rome, do as the Romans do; abusive or unlawful activity is another matter. Hams have been actively monitoring the bands, and they should continue to do so if they want to retain them. Out-of-band transmission, unlicenced operation and RFI are matters of verifiable fact; questions of on-air etiquitte are somewhat more subjective. It makes good sense to follow the local customs; these generally facilitate communication for everyone.
If the hobby is vital, it will change and adapt to new times and circumstances; if the hobby has even a modicum of resilience, it ought to accommodate an influx of amateurs from the pejoratively named "chicken band" without any loss of integrity.
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Is it Just Me?
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by KC8YOQ on May 20, 2004
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WOW What a BIG DEAL......NOT!! Most of us got our start on CB so old habits are hard to break!! Let it go!!!! Now we all know why CBers and other wont get into HAM radio...its because they think that we think we are better than them!!!
In a word go with the flow.
I say roger and 10-4 and things just to break up the stiff way Hams talk!!
Thanks and 10-4
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Is it Just Me?
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by N9HNO on May 20, 2004
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I cant believe that some of the hams out here have nothing better to do than bitch . This is typical of how the good ole boys network works, give the new guys on the block a chance to join the ranks and they in time will come around and do just fine, in the mean timwe try not to be so self centered and try to help the new guys along. I have had my ticket for 23 years and im still learning something new everyday about ham radio, Instead of being MR. IM THE PERFECT RADIO OPERATOR try to remember you have to start somewhere.Be glad we are getting the new blood in the ranks so we wont be a dieing breed.
congradulations to all the new guys on the block.
keep up the learning and you will do fine.
73's
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by RADIO123US on May 20, 2004
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Bernie, if you read some of the responses in this thread, it actually proves your point..that there are CBers among us that want the HAMS to change, and they want us to accept their poor operating practices that they learned on the CB (Criminal Band). I have no problems with CBers becoming hams as long as they act like hams, but they should not expect to be accepted by the ham community if they contunue to act like a CBer...
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by FMRN5ELV on May 21, 2004
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Amateur radio will never degenerate into "chickenband", regardless of the "lingo" problem; I'll be glad to tell you why if you stick with me for a minute.
I am an expired, 1981-licensed Technician. I learned CW to get into ham radio because I really wanted to make some of my own gear and TALK to people in foreign countries. I learned (not memorized) the General theory and got my tech license, then worked my code speed up to about 15wpm. For many and varied reasons, I stopped operating; sold all my gear, and allowed my license to lapse before taking the 13wpm code test.
Recently, I have become interested in ham radio again. To that end, I have obtained the ARRL Handbook and been "brushing up" for the tests. While researching the sundry items associated with this hobby in the modern age (the internet has been invaluable) I have discovered that a) volunteers now give the tests, b) the total code requirement has dropped dramatically, and, most incomprehensibly of all, c) (after working my code speed back up to 5 wpm to pass the test) I can become an extra just by taking 2 (yes TWO) WRITTEN tests! This is possible because the FCC says that my lapsed license is credit for elements 1 and 3 - just pass elements 2 and 4 and the FCC sends me one of those neat 1x2 or 2x1 callsigns. SOMEBODY must think that new and/or advancing hams are necessary. Perhaps 9-11-2001 and the vulnerable phone/power utilities had something to do with it????
Wow! Alot has happened in ham radio the past 15 years! DSP rigs, MOBILE all-band xvrs, computerized logging and electronic QSLing and awards. A fella can literally drive himself to drink dealing with all the new stuff in the amateur realm. I am just about to place an order for a TS-2000 and some decent antennae!
OK... you ham snobs out there, and there are more than a few of you - I'll give it to you straight. I hate CW with a purple, blinding passion. I hated learning it, I hated using it, and it took ALOT of hard work on my part to get as fast as I eventually got. I’ll admit it – I’m gonna “memorize” the element 2 and 4 tests and pass them both next month. Look out OT purists! I’m about to hit YOUR section of the bands. <evil grin> Yep! I’ll be an almost-no-coder, memorized test Amateur Extra Lite. I didn’t have to learn code to 20 wpm – sue me. I think that is the basis for most of your growling, anyway; the Johnny-come-lately’s didn’t have to “earn” their ticket like you OT’s did. The whole license class/ban/mode restrictions thing is all about protecting valuable bandwidth for you OT’s anyway – always has been. The motivator for me learning code always was to gain the “privilege” of using HF phone, which meant bowing before the CW Gods aka the OT’s. Thank God that bullsqueeze is over! Don’t like it? Tuffchitski – you don’t get to make the rules. I can finally enjoy this hobby the way I want to.
Addressing the jargon (CB or otherwise) on phone: You may catch the occasional “10-4” or “Roger” from me, but I’ll do my best to do as we Hams do and not curse or announce to the world “Breaker 19” or “10-4 good buddy! By golly it’s cleanclear to Flagtown, come on!” Poor operating practices should be discouraged gently, preferably by example. Out-and-out lawbreaking should be reported to the FCC – every time! On-air admonishments should be courteous, and then only if absolutely necessary. Jumping my behind on-air for a ham etiquette faux pas will probably result in your being told to take a flying freak at a rolling donut, particularly if you are one of those OT’s that say “ahhhhhh” or “ummmm” constantly or use “QSL” as a verbal punctuation. Also on that subject – don’t use your CW jargon on phone if you’re going to gripe about CB jargon: yours is only marginally less offensive than theirs’.
This hobby will never degenerate into CB for several reasons.
Tests are still required for Amateur radio; any fool in the country can key up a CB. OK you can “memorize” the tests, but that really doesn’t do one much good. There are just too many things that you MUST know – and you’ll learn them whether you memorized the test or not. You’re likely to burn out that rig trying to chat on 80m through that CB antenna, don’t cha know! Code is still required for more than a Tech ticket; sound off loud and long if you want to keep it that way – and good luck! I predict that this will be a losing battle, as most of the other countries in the ITU have dropped the code requirement, and the most virulent pro-code OT’s gradually become SK’s.
This hobby can be tremendously expensive. My soon to be made anticipated purchases is going to total nearly 3 grand: how many of the average “chickenbanders” can lay out that kind of money? OK, you can get into this hobby for less, but it still costs a pretty penny over time. CB’s are 50 – 100 bucks running. Why would the average “chickenbander” lay out the necessary dollars for a rig?
Let’s address the attitude of the old guard. If this service is to survive at all, it MUST embrace technological and/or cultural change. Failure to do so in either case will result in its demise. John WR8D, is the epitome of the elitist OT; with his derogatory “chickenbander” label and his wide decrying on these threads about the falling standards in Amateur radio. I’ll be he is royally ticked that in 1 month I’ll be able to invade his sacred Extra-class bandwidth? I wonder if he has much time to work contacts between his frequent whining sessions? Bernie asked a legitimate question, basically: should I have said something to my QSO contact about his use of CB slang. My answer is: sure. If done gently and with an air of friendly mentoring, instead of snapping his head off ala the amateur radio service jargon police.
This hobby is big enough for everyone, even the Cbers, to enjoy – and nobody owns amateur radio or the airwaves.
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KC8VWM on May 24, 2004
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Gee, If I heard CB slang used on Amateur Radio bands I would probobly have to interpret CB slang as some sort of secret and coded message.
97.113 (4) Prohibited transmissions. - (a) No amateur station shall transmit:
communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the
meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification;
Example # 1:
"10-4, gonna avoid that county mounty and break that there speed limit on da back roads - watch yer back door there good buddy 'cause smokey bear is taking a crap and holdin a fan at ya if ya know what I mean."
The Point:
Even if this message example was conducted by hams in plain everyday english, the "act" or intention is to communicate information for the purpose of avoiding or breaking the law. Therefore, using your radio equipment in this manner for this type of communication would still be prohibited under FCC rules.
my 2 cents
Charles - KC8VWM
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by KI4EDO on August 5, 2004
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I don't care what band you are on, I ain't your good buddy!
Is there a publication that addresses Ham etiquet?
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RE: Is it Just Me?
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by KD5JDG on August 24, 2004
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I remember one time when I picked up the wrong mic.
I had a SSB CB radio on channel 36 LSB and a 2m FM radio on a local repeater. I was looking for a friend that I had seen on the road and picked up by accident the 2m mobile mic instead of the SSB CB mic and said "QSK This is Division 2 Delta Kilo 0 south texas mobile 2WRR6701 do you copy?" Boy, did I turn red with embarrisment when the locals on the 2m repeater were wondering what was going on!!!
Haha, just thought I'd share that with ya'll. Give 'em a little time, and a little correction every now an then, and they'll learn how its done on the ham bands, thats what happened to me and everybody else that I knew that was new. 3 weeks tops they'll have itpat down. and sometimes, we jsut pick up the wrong mic...<grin> Its no big deal, certainly nothing to shit a brick about hahaha!
TNX & 73's,
Fabian X.C.S.
KD5SYH
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by PORKCHOP on November 24, 2004
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I only made it through a few replies....
I have to say this, HAM sham. There is no correct way to say anything anymore. If you don't like what someone says, turn off your freakin' radio. I just passed the Tech Exam, reading stuff like this makes me want to send that license back when it gets here. The use of "we" and "us" makes me sick. HAM's aren't any better than anyone else. CB'er or whatever you choose to call them "us".
Till next time, keep it wall to wall and 10 foot tall, watch for them smokies round the bend, keep the hammer down and the wheels straight, I'll be southbound and down, with that modulation ticklin the air, 9 pounds of signal from the radio check (the only check that can't bounce) and we'll catch you on the flip good buddy. Roger that, we out!!
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by KG4DXS on March 22, 2005
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Wow, what a long thread. I never hear any CB lingo on CW. Only CW lingo. And the world turns and turns again. C U ota......73 de kg4dxs didit
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by N4RFJ on September 26, 2005
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I was around CB before it turned completely bad and like ham radio now there were some good and some bad operators back then. I do not think there is too much to worry about with the phrases and lingo from an ex CB radio operator as long as he is being polite and making an attempt to be a good ham operator. I think we should be much more concerned with the CB like practices of long time hams causing our frequencies to be as undesirable as the CB radio frequencies became before its large scale demise. Personally I think this is already happening on the HF bands. Want proof? Listen to 3.945 on pretty much any given night to hear those guys insulting each other, using vulgar language, not giving their call signs, or bragging about their audio as they practice talking over one another impressed with the massive amounts of power they are running. This frequency is the most extreme that I have noticed in the 3 months or so since I got back into HF after a 10 year break, but its not the only one where licensed amateurs are now hogging up bandwidth running big amplifier clubs while talking to people they could easily work with less than 100 watts.
In my opinion its this kind of operating that is a disgrace to the principles of good amateur radio operation and will be the cause of the downfall of our service not the lingo carried over from the polite ex CB operator who is learning to be a good ham operator. I guess my point is that it is not the phrases that are used, but the actions we take that are going to make or break our service.
If you are one of the members of a local big amplifier club and this offends you, good! Think some about the history and tradition of Amateur Radio and the golden rule of using only the minimum power required to communicate as you tune up your bandwidth hogging, RFI causing, 2KW Linear to talk to the guy down the street. Just because your not saying breaker breaker good buddy, or I dusted your sheets does not make you a good radio operator!
God Bless
N4RFJ
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