Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
Jacob Gerald Norlund (KC0LTV)
on
May 25, 2004
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Over the seven or so years I've been in the radio hobby, I've heard numerous amateurs complain about the Internet, and perhaps modern computers in general as a grave enemy of our hobby. They speak of it as causing a major loss in ham radio, and therefore being a (very) bad thing for ham radio.
Yet look at the positive side...
Not too long ago, digital modes usually required a specialized modem. Software for these modes was rarely free. This mean getting into digital required a big (by ham radio standards) investment. Today, however, hams communicate via a greater variety of modes than we have ever known -- and do it at a very low price (an interface like the Rigblaster is all of expense that is needed).
Modes like PSK31, MFSK16, MT63, RDFT (aka Digital SSTV) have allowed for inexpensive, efficient digital communications on the HF bands. Software for Hellschreiber has enabled hams to try a long-forgotten mode. Other modes, such as FSK441, have advanced the state of weak-signal VHF+ technology. Thanks to the multitude of hams with access to the Internet and their generosity, there is a great selection of often-free software out there, even for platforms like Linux and PDAs.
Ham radio boards and sites allow for the unlimited capacity to share valuable information (and flames!). Project schematics and technical data are at one's fingertips and can be downloaded and printed with ease. Want to buy a new rig, antenna, or outboard VFO? You can check the reviews at eHam and see how other users have liked (or disliked) products.
While you may or may not like it, you have to agree that Internet linking is helping to bring ham radio into the 21st century. Echolink, IRLP, and WIRES enable hams to communicate around the world via their HTs. It certainly may not be 100% radio (HF still has appeal!), but it's a uniquely ham thing. After all, would you dial random numbers on your cell phone "just for a chat"? Less controversial forms of Internet linking, for example APRS link-ups have also enhanced the hobby.
Some manufacturers have showed their willingness to embrace Internet technology as a benefactor for ham radio by offering firmware upgrades for their receivers and transceivers. Years ago, this could only be accomplished through chips, which must be shipped at an expense.
Sure, there are some who may say something like, "Why waste your time on a ham radio when you can just go to Yahoo voice chat." Do you really think many of these people would have entered the hobby before the Internet? Ham radio isn't just about A-to-B communications. It's about the joy of bouncing signals off the ionosphere, the thrill of E-skip on 6, up-linking your own signal to an orbiting satellite, sending ATV from a helmet-mounted camera, or the friendliness of chats on the local repeater.
The actual person-person interaction is certainly part of it, though, and on ham radio, you have common ground with the guy on the other side. There's a sense of accountability and etiquette over the radio, even with newbies, that's harder to find on Internet chat rooms.
BPL may be a serious threat to the ham hobby, but I honestly don't think our worries will ever manifest themselves, at least on the scale we imagine. Really, the future is wireless communications, whether mobile or base, and BPL isn't quite up to par. Of course, we should have a voice against BPL and fight it, but call me a wearer of rose-colored glasses; I really don't think it will be deployed on a mass scale. Whatever they say, there's still room on the spectrum.
I hope you enjoyed my article, KC0LTV.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by N0RKX on May 25, 2004
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I work in the Computer/Networking/Internet industry. The last thing I want to do when I get home at night is "the internet". 95% of the internet is mindless drivel. It's been prostituted from the noble goals of ARPAnet in 1969 to the seething cesspool of commercialism that it is today.
The REAL computer geeks are the ones we should be recruiting into Ham Radio, not the little chat and script kiddies who are online 24/7.
Echolink/IRLP/Wires became irrelevant when license restructuring went through. They're just a crutch for lazy people who want something for nothing.
"Why study for and pass the General class test when I can just Echolink my way to DX"? I've heard that phrase more than once. If you can't pass the current General class requirements you don't belong on HF, and to my mind there is some question whether you should be allowed to drive.
How far do we go in "restructuring" our hobby just to get fresh bodies? Do you really want to turn Ham Radio into the RF version of that seething cesspool just for the sake of memberships and dues?
We need quality over quantity.
The internet can be useful and does have occasional islands of sanity like eHam.net, but they are becoming fewer and farther between.
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by K0BG on May 25, 2004
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While I might agree with Kevin Stover about the mindless drivel on the internet, it has nonetheless made it very easy to get any question answered. It has also made it possible for folks out in the sticks to purchase items readily which used to require a lengthy trip to the nearest commerce center.
One thing I do miss, however, is the free availibility of white papers on any subject you can name. Since the switch from ARPAnet to the internet, institutions of higher learning now protect those white papers behind a vail of secrecy where us common folk can not go.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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by KB3KAQ on May 25, 2004
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i too am an IT professional and echo the statement about using the 'net when i get home from work. i spend my days chasing worms and software bugs, why do it at home?
i got into ham radio because it was a challenge and was technical enough to require learning and experimentation. the internet has a major flaw, you have to know where you are going to get there. ham radio allows unique experiences every time you turn the transceiver on.
if i'm on 14.262, i could have a QSO with someone in any number of states. i could also have a QSO with someone in Europe, Canada, Mexico, or even Lebanon. not once did i plan on making contact with any of those distant places, it just happened. all i had to do was call CQ.
i buy few items on-line, the most recent being software that is only available on-line. the commercial side of the internet will stablize and then slowly mutate into direct marketing based on your surfing habits. when was the last time during a QSO an ad disrupted it for a Heil Goldline or EZ-Hang? you will get those on your home computer soon enough.
the internet is best used as a research tool to find sources for more information, that's why it was invented. eHam and QRZ are such places, as is AC6V. for my other hobbies, there are forums and reflectors that are invaluable. if i want to communicate with someone i have never met in a distant place, the internet is not the best tool, that would be my HF tranceiver.
-Steve, KB3KAQ
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K0RGR on May 25, 2004
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The Internet is good when it extends ham radio.
Echolink is an extension of ham radio. It lets me link my local repeater with others around the world. This has both practical and hobby implications. We have many visitors to our small city that use it to keep in touch with friends at home, and we have a group of people, mostly Techs, who monitor it for the 'DX' that checks in on a daily basis.
APRS gateways are an extension of ham radio that let us keep in touch with local APRS users wherever they go. The same is true for WINLink on HF, which lets us keep up with our email from the backcountry or out at sea.
DX Spotting, online propagation information, online satellite predictions, etc., are extensions of ham radio.
The Internet is BAD when it replaces ham radio. There are times I'd like to move the computers out of the shack because they often take time away from my real hobby. Reading or writing about ham radio is not the same as doing real ham radio. I know that for many, that's as close as they can come to hamming, but overall I would encourage people to turn off the computer and get on the air as much as they can! (Those of us who work digital modes and computer logging are stuck, however!).
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by K5UJ on May 25, 2004
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The wealth of information available to the ham via the internet has made a huge difference in the enjoyment of the hobby for me. I can get product reviews immediately on-line from ARRL, eham, and elsewhere. I can go to contesting.com and other sources and use keyword searching in reflector (email lists) archives to pull together information to use in answering a question I might have about an antenna, product, equipment mod and so on. When I got back on the air about 4 years ago I was totally out of it after being off of HF for about 18 years. I got so much information for so many questions so quickly off of the internet, I couldn't imagine how I operated in the 1970s. There are many hams with websites with useful niche topic information also. And if you can't find what you are looking for you can send an email out to a topical list and get answers.
What did we do before? We went to club meetings once a month, tried to get information on the air, wrote letters to ARRL TIS and waited a few weeks for a reply, spent $$ on long distance (pre AT&T break-up rates) phone calls trying to get to an expert, and hours going through indexes to back issues of QST. It was hit and miss. Mostly we labored in the dark, learning by making sometimes costly mistakes. There were a lucky few, with professional knowledge or connections--you know, hams with the inside dope on dxpeditions, future product offerings and so on but now, the internet has greatly democratized the flow of information so that just about everyone with at least a dial-up knows the latest mod, product about to be discontinued, or whatever, at the same time. I like it much better this way.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by N8IK on May 25, 2004
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View the internet as a huge library. When I was a kid I went to the public library all the time. I could have spent 24 hours a day there (just like the internet). There was lots of mindless drivel on the shelves (just like the internet). I picked what I wanted to look at (just like the internet). I ignored the rest (just like the internet). If the internet gives you new ideas to further your amateur radio pursuits, that's good. If it doesn't, that's not good.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K7VO on May 25, 2004
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I was going to write a long reply but I quickly realized it boiled down to this simple one:
The internet is good for ham radio. It is really bad for those who fear or resist change.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K1IR on May 25, 2004
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Caity's got it right. Technology is fun. Mix and match your radio and non-radio technolgies for maximum enjoyment.
73,
Jim K1IR
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by K0EWS on May 25, 2004
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As long as it compliments ham radio, it's good. When operators replace their operating time with internet time, it's bad. Through the internet, I've been helped with a number of antenna and homebrew projects, and a lot of good hints and advice. I've been able to download some really great ham software, a lot of it for free, and been opened up to several new digital modes, and when building my Elecraft, was able to have questions answered almost immediately, any time of day or night. That's the good stuff.
The days that I waste time reading useless threads and flamewars on internet sites like this and QRZ rather than having a real live discussion are the days that internet is bad for ham radio. Those are the times I could be operating.
I guess that makes the internet, like anything else, a two edged sword. Good topic, and 73 to all.
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by W5HTW on May 25, 2004
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The internet as an information source (such as right here, and other forums) is good for ham radio. The internet as being a substitute for ham radio is very negative. Ham radio, as a hobby and a goal within itself, doesn't need the internet in order to survive, and it shouldn't. It is a standalone hobby. When we begin believing we have to communicate via computer and ISPs, and we call that ham radio, we have lied to ourselves.
I see it the way a collector of cars might. His 2004 Buick has all sorts of computerized features, and has one purpose: to get him from "A" to "B" in comfort, convenience and safety. But his 1947 Chevrolet has no computer. And he isn't about to add one to it. He is not going to put ABS in that car, or even disc brakes. He probably won't even hang a CD player beneath the dash. He is proud of the reality of that car, that it is his choice, his hobby, not his utility. Sure, he may drive it to work, even on a regular basis, but the goal is not to make it into something it isn't. He may, however, use a computer to locate parts for the car, to communicate with other antique car owners, to subscribe to a car collector newsletter, etc. But the computer isn't the hobby; the car is. The computer is the utility.
Our goal is radio. Or it should be, for if it isn't, then ham 'radio' is not what we find of interest. Too much of today's radio is spent simply using it as a means to convey computer data from "A" to "B" - a utility, not a hobby. Computers are the real hobby, and ham radio is the conveyance. That shows a lack of interest in ham radio. As hams, the use of the internet to support the hobby is fine, like with the car collector. But the use of the internet as, some would say, an operating mode, is like putting the computer in that 47 Chevy.
A lot of we older hams prefer radios that are devoid of computer technology. We want to do the operating ourselves, not have some chip manufacturer do it for us. We'll tweak the knobs, thank you. Just as that car collector will shift the gears and work that old clutch in his car.
Most of us would not look at a man with a 2004 Buick as a 'auto hobbyist.' He simply has a car that is nice, expensive, safe, comfortable, and goes where he wants. No way would we assume that car is his hobby. But if we see him in the driver's seat of that 1947 Chevy, we view him immediately as a car hobbyist. A real enthusiast, someone probably quite knowledgeable in basic automotive skills. We don't see that car as his "utility means of transportation."
Ham radio should have radio at the heart of its operation, and if it doesn't, then it is simply a utility, not a hobby. We saw that especially in the late 90s, with the cell-phone-spouse, licensed as hams only in lieu of cheap cell phones. That utility use of ham radio has declined dramatically as cell phone companies made family plans cheaply available.
If the internet is the hobby, then we need to be reminded, "The internet is not ham radio." And ham radio is not the internet.
Ed
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KG4PVX on May 25, 2004
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Short answer: No IMHO (in my humble opinion)
Long answer:
Many hams make “the internet” to be the big evil doer and downfall for the hobby. I don’t share that opinion.
As operator for PA6ESJ, PA6WSJ, XR3J (www.qsl.net/xr3j the amateur radio station for the 19th World Scout Jamboree) and various other “demonstration” stations I have noticed that the interest in out hobby is very much alive!
We as an amateur radio community just need to find a way to spark the interest of potential new hams. And even more important we need to guide (elmer) new hams so that they don’t become an other statistic. Here in the US I notice that there are many hams but most of them are not active. I looks like there was good support for them to get them in to the hobby but once licensed the support system collapsed.
Last year we (K4FAU www.k4fau.org) started an APRS project that sparked the interest of several hams that had never (or a long time ago) picked up a soldering iron!
Sure time is scarce but to blame the internet is not right. Like the above article mentions the internet has done great things for our hobby.
Just my $0.02
Sjaak van Dam W4RIS (ex-KG4PVX)
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by K6BBC on May 25, 2004
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Mindless drivel on the Internet. That's the pot calling the kettle black.
K6BBC
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by KD5RGJ on May 25, 2004
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iF IT WAS NOT FOR THE INTERNET WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION NOR BE ABLE TO READ THOUSANDS OF HAM ADS EVERYDAY
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by AC9TS on May 25, 2004
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Computers and the internet are what got me back IN to the hobby. I let my license lapse back in the early 80's mostly due to school, family, etc. It was the new digital modes (PSK mostly) that got me back in. Without computers and the internet, there would be one less ham.
Tom - AC9TS
ex WD9FZR back in the day
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by WB2WIK on May 25, 2004
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Bad for our hobby? Of course not.
But creating some bad habits in general? Certainly, as every new convenience has, in some way.
One thing that amuses me is that the web now contains so much information, it's endless and still growing exponentially; and, amongst that information is a lot of really bad information.
Do a search on most any subject, and along with excellent viable data one will also find a lot of total baloney, authored by people with the time on their hands to do so but evidently not nearly sufficient time to do any research or investigation of authoritative sources. It's all mixed together: Truth and reality, along with fiction and nonsense. Difficult to distinguish which is which, sometimes.
One earlier comment was that the internet is like this vast library, which it surely is; the difference as I see it is that I won't find nearly as much complete B.S. in published books. That's because there's only two ways to get a book published: (1) Pay for the publication yourself, in which case you better have quite a bankroll for anything beyond an extremely limited release; or (2) Have a publisher finance the project and take the risk of success or not. Publishers aren't idiots, and usually will only risk the cost of publishing something worthwhile.
As such, although there surely are textbooks full of nonsense, those are clearly in the minority when it comes to non-fiction, research and educational materials that are actually printed between covers on paper and found on the library shelf.
On the other hand, since it costs absolutely nothing to "publish" a piece on the internet, thousands of people do so daily and a lot of it is pure hogwash.
Might still have entertainment value, though.
WB2WIK/6
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by X-WB1AUW on May 25, 2004
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Regardless if one calls the internet good or bad, the internet IS.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by W3DCG on May 25, 2004
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The internet is a valuable resource for all.
All, includes hams.
One day I'd like to be set up here at the office, so I can VoIP to my rig at home during lunch break for a quickie fix at my radio.
Internet bad for our hobby?
Not in my opinion!
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K0RFD on May 25, 2004
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It's a tool. It's good if it's a hammer when you need a hammer. It's bad if it's a hammer when you need a screwdriver.
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by WIRELESS on May 25, 2004
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Ham radio has no more to do with the internet as it does with mail service. The internet is good for buying and getting info from companies that I had to call and request. Ham radio used to be about building and just playing with technology because it interested people. Now, ham radio is mostly boring and competes with nothing.
If anyone disagrees that ham radio is boring, then why are the same hams on this site almost 24/7.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by WA9SVD on May 25, 2004
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The Internet can be good for our hobby, even if it "steals" some time away from actually operating. You can learn about new antenna designs, read equipment reviews, download digital mode software, and a myriad of other things. But if you had to go to the library to find the same information, or go to the store to pick up that software, you would not be operating either.
But what I didn't see mentiomned yet is that WHILE I'm talking to somebody halfway around the world, I can surf to one of the callsign servers and get some idea who he or she is and where they live; maybe even see a picture of them or their shack. You can't do that without the Internet.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by G3SEA on May 25, 2004
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It obviously depends on how people use it :)
I believe the Internet is a wondeful resource ( it does not replace libraries but complements them )for information and research on just about any area one can imagine.
IRLP & EchoLink are wonderful modes for all the reasons
mentioned by K0RGR.They have literally kept hams active who might otherwise have left the hobby due to antenna,RFI restrictions etc.They are after all just extended ( Worldwide ) VHF/UHF repeater networks.
Yes High Technology has made life easier for us but it should not dumb anyone down.Quite the reverse as it opens up our minds in many areas :)
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by W2NSF on May 25, 2004
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The internet is responsible for getting me back into the hobby after 40+ years. I think all the readily-available information only supplements, not threatens, the enjoyment of amateur radio. Good article...
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by N2JHZ on May 25, 2004
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It is ironic that the Internet would be perceived as a threat to amateur radio: there is substantially more freely accessible information about the hobby through the medium that purportedly threatens it, than there was prior to the Internet. I've been away from ham radio for a decade; thanks to the Internet, I've purchased radio equipment online and have gotten back on the air.
The increasing use of wireless digital modes should provide a fertile ground for experimentation by amateurs. It is a golden age for technology, and a golden age for mathematics, advances in which have given us more reliable communication modes, to suggest only a fraction of the possible applications. It should also be a golden age for amateur radio. Amateur radio could further advances in communication modes and exploit novel combinations of software and radio technologies. Echolink is a successful and robust example--particularly robust for its windows environment. I would like to see more software development efforts of this kind within the amateur community.
The Internet could be an even greater vehicle for the education of amateurs than it is. I read what I could about electronics when I was a boy, by reading the ARRL handbook and issues of Popular Electronics; today, I can download online courses in electronics and circuit design. The open source software community has been particularly successful in promoting research and educating its members. Many of us routinely rely on LINUX HOWTOs for practical information. It seems that, as far as amateur related software development is concernced, Amateur Radio is following the example of the open source community; if it wants to attract a greater informed membership, it could provide more educational material online.
The use of computers for communication, electronic design and simulation within amateur radio should be encouraged. In computational chemistry, quantum chemists routinely use clusters of computers to understand molecular properties that would otherwise require an experimental setup to measure. Does amateur radio have anything comparable? The semiconductor industry simulates and formally verifies its chip designs before they go into production. Can you simulate propagation modes, or antenna and circuit designs on your computer? Is amateur radio taking advantage of the unprecedented computational resources its community has at its disposal?
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by WB9NJB on May 25, 2004
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I fully agree that the net is nothing more than a tool. It takes nothing away from ham radio, and probably provides a valuable showcase, good or bad. As for the hobby being boring, that is a personal mindset. I still thrill every time I turn on the HF radio and here people talking and exchanging information from all over the world. If that bores you, move on and get another hobby. Otherwise, see you all on 20 sometime.
73
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by KF4VGX on May 25, 2004
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I guess You can say that I am a self taught person.
I use to pay 75 bucks an hour to get my computer repaired. Information on the internet has given me the knowledge to repair and build my own computers . Anyone here need a computer ? :) . It also helped me to build my own repeater systems for amateur radio use .
Now the woes and foes of Echolink etc. How many here have cell phones, how many have computers ?
I'm gambling ( Snicker )here ,but I would say there are more computers in the average house hold than amateur radio. Any bets here ?
By joining the two together only increases the knowledge / information that an amateur radio operator can learn . Lazy is not even in my vocabulary. You show me a ham that keeps three to four computers on a router with several linked radios to these computers. Pays out of pocket money for reliable internet service so he can offer a way for a fellow ham to communicate while traveling / low cycle etc . I will take my hat of to and say thank you ! You are a true amateur radio operator and show other amateurs what the spirit of radio is about.
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by N5MZL on May 25, 2004
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I'm a computer network professional, and I'll wager I've been in the field years longer than anyone on this thread (to put it another way, I knew what the Internet was, and how it worked, before 99.9% of the rest of the population). And truth be told, it's not so much the Internet that can draw hams away, it's the technology, the computers themselves, that do it.
I (along with quite a few others) drifted away from ham radio back in the early 1990s, before the Internet was even accessible to the public. What was available back then were BBS systems, computers connected to phone lines that you could dial into and perform most of the same basic functions that people do on the Internet now (email, chat, file transfers, some information sources). Nowhere near as glitzy as what you see today, but fundamentally the same.
If you are a ham radio operator, then well nigh by default you are a "techie", fascinated by electronics and the like. By the late 1980s, personal computers were becoming affordable to more and more people, and the allure of these new "toys" drew a lot of hams away from the hobby. But again, this was happening long before the Internet and the ability to access it ever became an issue.
So whether it was dialing into BBS systems at 2400bps in the 1980s, or connecting via broadband to the Internet today, the causes and effects are essentially the same.
I'm only just now getting back into the hobby after a years-long absence, having spent the last 10+ years screwing around with my computers. While the Internet is indeed an excellent source of information (once you learn how to sift through it), I will agree that a lot of it is indeed an over-commercialized cesspool. Any dingdong with a credit card can get online with as fancy a setup as one likes, and can talk all over creation with it, etc.
But I found that I missed the challenge of sending that flow of electrons out through the air instead of down a phone or cable TV line. It takes effort to try this, study that, so as to tweak your gear in an attempt to talk to that fellow in Russia, Vanuatu, or even a space station, when there is nothing between you and him/her but thin air (if even that).
The Internet is what it is, an occasionally useful tool and sometimes toy. But if you really have the radio bug, there is no substitute for getting on the air, as opposed to just firing binary ones and zeros down a copper cable.
73 de N5MZL
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by KF4VGX on May 25, 2004
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Carolina Windom antenna problem Reply
by N5MZL on April 25, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry if this story is rather convoluted, but I'm in a bit of a quandary and any help would be appreciated.
I am getting back into ham radio after a ten year absence, and HF operating has always been my favorite. In the past I lived in a rural area, and could put up whatever sort of antennas I wanted, and was even pretty good at making my own dipoles for various bands.
However, I now live in a subdivision that, while antennas are not forbidden outright, the civic association is vicious and not to be trifled with, hence I wanted to go with something at once stealthy but versatile.
....................................
Just one example :)
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by N6AJR on May 25, 2004
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I started on the "internet" back when it was nodes on a bulletinn board..on a4.7 mhz 8088 with 256 K of ram and a cassette recorder.. (Cload Csave??) machine and you had to up load a non comercial program to down load something , at 300 baud!
I use the web to help folks here ( aka the fan dipole guy) and it is handy for looking up lost calls, when is the last time you sent " good in the book" , hmm now its good at qrz....
I buy and selkl ham stuff on ebay, lots of fun fo me.
I also like to be here and read YOUR thoughts..
so yes virginia there is a santa clause.. and it is the web..
73 tom N6AJR still good in the book...
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by AB2MH on May 25, 2004
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What I like about the internet:
Up to date information available to me in the privacy of my own home (or office)
The ability to comparison shop without hassling for parking, walking around or making endless phone calls
The ability to interact with people I otherwise would not have the ability to (one of the reasons I joined the radio hobby too)
The ability to communicate with my non-licensed relatives in other states and countries.
What I don't like about the net:
Rampant commercialism and the fact that everyone is basically ramming ads down your throat (spam, popups etc). When comes to advertising, the internet is way more intrusive than TV, radio or print media.
Viruses, worms etc
The fact that some people take discussion boards way too personal
So all in all the net complements my hobby, and my life. I wouldn't give it up for anything!
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K3UD on May 25, 2004
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It is possible that the internet did do some damage to the growth of amateur radio
Since the license restructure of 2000 the ARS numbers have been well within 1% either way which means that we are just keeping up with attrition. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s (up to about 1995) we had growth rates averaging well over 20% in each of those decades. For whatever reason, we seemed to have hit the bottom of the growth pool.
Maybe a very large portion of everyone who wanted to be a ham did so when the no code Technician class started in the early 90s. Maybe to many of those who became licensed, it was not really amateur radio as they imagined it and eventually gave up on it.
The no code license predated widespread access to the internet by just a few years. It was in the 1993 - 1996 period when inexpensive dial up access became available to most areas of the country. We did not get it here until 1995 with the only access being available prior being limited to very expensive (in terms of hours and long distance charges) AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe and a few others.
While I am not trying to make a case that inexpensive access killed growth in the ARS, there seems to be a timely casual relationship. Something happened in the mid 90s to cause an almost sudden halt to growth in the ARS and spark a decline in ARRL membership numbers.
73
George
K3UD
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by AE6IP on May 26, 2004
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> the internet is best used as a research tool to find
> sources for more information, that's why it was
> invented.
The internet was invented as a means for military researchers to share expensive not-widely-available computer resources.
It actually failed at its original mission. We never did use it that way.
Sometimes failure leads to much more interesting success.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by AE6IP on May 26, 2004
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> I'm a computer network professional, and I'll wager
> I've been in the field years longer than anyone on
> this thread
I'd be inclined to take that wager. But then, not a whole lot of people realize that commercial internets predate either "The" internet or ARPAnet.
> (to put it another way, I knew what the Internet
> was, and how it worked, before 99.9% of the rest of
> the population).
Well, with nearly 6 billion people on the planet, that means a mere 6 million people understood the net before you. Sounds like you discovered it rather late.
> And truth be told, it's not so much the Internet
> that can draw hams away, it's the technology, the
> computers themselves, that do it.
The interesting thing isn't whether the net draws hams away from the hobby, but rather the internet draws non-hams before they discover the ham hobby. Indications are that this is so.
> I (along with quite a few others) drifted away from
> ham radio back in the early 1990s, before the
> Internet was even accessible to the public.
The first ISPs went on line in 89. There were several university projects before that which made internet access available to the general public via various libraries.
The earliest project to link individual users to the net was probably Ted Nelson's "People's Computer Consortium" in Berkeley in the early 70s, but at that point, "the net" was UCB's computer systems.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by OZ8AGB on May 26, 2004
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Great article. Looking at myself it is a bit funny. I'm a software developer and 6 years ago I went into a computer store that also sells Ham gear and at that time I actually thougth: "Are there really still people playing with amateur radio? Why? On the internet you can talk with people all around the world in seconds.". Well, now I'm a ham myself since January this year. What "converted" me was my interest in electronics AND that Ham radio actually has A LOT of challenges. Combining it with the PC makes it even more interesting. Surfing the net doesn't really. Any one can go out and buy a PC hook it up and be on-line in a couple of hours. No big deal. I just finished putting my new K2 together 2 weeks ago and put up a homebuilt antenna in my garden. Yesterday I worked a couple of US and Canadian stations using 5W and PSK31 (I'm in eu). THAT WAS A THRILL!! Another big challenge for me is to really learn the morse code.
I've learned a lot about radio and electronics these pas months and I KNOW that I still have A LOT to learn. Great hobby!
We should market our hobby as "We don't do it because it is easy, it isn't! We do it because it is challenging!".
Vy 73 de
Michael
OZ8AGB
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KG5JJ on May 26, 2004
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Is the Internet bad for our hobby?
No...but you have to read between the lines! ;-}
73 KG5JJ (Mike)
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by WB2WIK on May 26, 2004
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The internet started as UCB's computer room?
The folks here at UCLA would take issue with that!
But then, so would Al Gore... :)
The only thing bad for our hobby is that as a group, we're getting too old to sustain it. If we don't bring in our kids, or their friends, or some kids from somewhere, the hobby could die before BPL has a chance to kill it.
Everybody, please: Get one youngster interested, licensed and active each year, and the hobby will sustain itself. I'm covered, I already brought one in last year, so I have a few months to go before I start looking for another likely candidate again.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K0EWS on May 26, 2004
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>>>>Everybody, please: Get one youngster interested, licensed and active each year, and the hobby will sustain itself. I'm covered, I already brought one in last year, so I have a few months to go before I start looking for another likely candidate again. >>>>>
That's excellent advice. I've done my part, teaching ham radio to 4 kids at the high school in which I teach. They are due to test in June, and hopefully, they will join our ranks. Then, I get them to Field Day for some fun, and hopefully, it will blossom from there! Next school year, I plan on doing the same thing. It really doesn't take that much effort to do, and they also find that the internet is a great help in preparation for the tests. What I've noticed about my kids here is that the internet is pretty boring to them for the most part. They find radios fascinating. They play with their CBs and FRS ones, and think they are fun, and are interested in learning more. There is just something about that magic of radio that the internet will ever replace.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KA3POY on May 26, 2004
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I find the Internet an invaluable tool for QSL'ing.
My memory of QSL'ing, especially DX QSL'ing, from the 1970's was that it sucked - time consuming to page through huge callbooks, hard to get current information, etc. Now with Internet sites like QRZ.com I'm shocked when I can't find somebody's QSL info.
I wouldn't go back for anything.
best wishes to the eham community,
N5IIT
was KA3POY
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KA5N on May 26, 2004
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The basic question is about the same as "Are diet sodas really bad for our hobby." Well if you spill one in your rig is probably not good. The internet is already to the point that I wonder how I lived without it. I can find out just about anything about ham radio (and anything else) in a flash. Pop-ups are bad, internet good!
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by AE6IP on May 27, 2004
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> The internet started as UCB's computer room?
Nope. PCC started at UCB.
> The folks here at UCLA would take issue with that!
Probably. But it didn't start there, either. ;)
> But then, so would Al Gore... :)
Poor Al. Of all the dumb things he said during the campaign, the one he gets remembered for is one that he didn't say.
> Everybody, please: Get one youngster interested,
> licensed and active each year, and the hobby will
> sustain itself.
Good point.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KE4ZHN on May 27, 2004
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I cant see how the internet is bad for our hobby. All I can see coming from the migration of computers into the hobby is more modes to work, and more information at our fingertips. How can this be bad? Those who opt out of amateur radio for the internet, obviously were never really interested enough to stay and chances are they would have found another hobby if the internet hadnt grabbed their attention. Many amateurs have several hobbies and alternate between them when one begins to bore them or for whatever reason they lose interest. Seems to me that many blame the internet for the loss of hams, but I dont buy it, I think its various other reasons that cause people to move on. Many are forced to deal with antenna restrictions, or deal with rfi issues, or even xyl`s who hate our hobby, these things can sometimes deter an amateur from even trying to get on the air when faced with restrictions that basically ruin the enjoyment of the hobby. And lets face facts, many hams are older people and cant climb towers anymore, or simply dont have the money to invest in amateur gear on fixed incomes. This hobby like any other, will always have people who come and go. Some come back after years of being inactive. In fact, I think amatuer radio needs more internet exposure so that we can get more young people involved in the hobby. A good way to reach them is on this monitor screen as they surf around. Perhaps if more young people knew that they can enjoy their computer WITH a radio together, the hobby would interest them more. Just a thought.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KC8VWM on May 28, 2004
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I think the internet has been well integrated with the Amateur radio service.
We use the internet to see weather maps during storm spotting weather nets. We use the internet to look up callsigns and to gather QSL related information. We use it as a vehicle for recruiting and elmering potential hams. We look up schematics and find out how to wire that new microphone and other equipment, etc.
I think of the internet rather as an enhancement tool or extension of Amateur Radio, I don't feel it has actually replaced it in any way.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K5AF on May 28, 2004
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My philosophy is "CQ while you surf" (Sing to the tune of "Whistle while you work") I have a looping CQ going, usually on a semi-dead band, when I surf the internet. When I get a response, I'll enter the callsign in the QRZ database and get the info on the caller. There are often pictures of the ham and his or her station, and sometimes comments that can lead to interesting conversations. When I hear a DXpedition on the air, I do a search and find their website. Its always neat to see pictures of the island or exotic locale and the maps usually provide a good reference.
I really love the blend of the two technologies, you can do both simultaneously with great results.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K0DG on May 28, 2004
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Excellent discussion, and lots of really good points. Somebody should summarize this forum and do a nice article on this subject that could be distributed to potential recruits.
I liked the points brought up about internet research, particularly because I use the net a lot for this reason. However, it is important to remember that whenever one does research, one needs to consider the source of the reference material encountered (from college "Research 101"), and this is no different with the internet, especially since much of the content is unedited. The other side of the coin, though, is that I've found lots of practical and useful advice and information on the web, especially from fellow hams and engineers, that probably would never be published in a more "formal" medium.
For example, like many of the rest of you, I used to pore over material in the local library when I was a kid looking for ham radio information, and, in general, electronics basics. True, I was able to find some miscellaneous textbooks, but just sit down sometime and try to work your way through one of those things with no external help or qualified classroom instruction (I finally popped for a correspondence course from Radio Electronics Institute (REI) to learn basic electronics)*.
We only had a few hams in my home town back in the late 40's and early 50's, the local doctor and maybe a few other "old guys", and they never seemed too interested in Elmering. We had no electronics labs or courses in high school, either (I don't know if this is still the case or not, but I hope not).
I sure wish the internet had been available to me then; I would have spent a LOT LESS time getting started then, and a LOT LESS time trying to qualify for a ham license!
As for computers in the shack, I, too, and an old IS professional, starting with IBM 705's, 7080's, and 1400 series computers back in the early 60's, as a direct extension of the electronics education I received while pursuing my ticket. Computers and ham radio have always seemed a natural, complementary pursuit to me, and the internet is a great extension to both (see the comments on my station setup under the topic about Linksys RFI problems).
73, K0DG
* Even with all that, I didn't get my first Novice ticket until 1966, Thanks to a Ham Radio Novice course given by the late Al McMillan, W0JJK, at Leo Meyerson's (W0GFQ) World Radio Labs (WRL) in Council Bluffs, IA., while working at my first Computer Programming job at Mutual of Omaha... Thanks again, Leo! :-)
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Our hobby is bad on the internet?
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by NE1Z on May 28, 2004
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Hamsexy.com is proof that ham radio is better left in the closet, where it resided before the internet
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by N2JHZ on May 29, 2004
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My impression was that the character of the hobby changed when solid state, and later digital integrated circuits, began to displace analog circuits. The transition to solid state digital integrated circuitry happened somewhat before the Internet; indeed, the Internet itself depended on a confluence of several technologies, including the miniaturization afforded by solid state digital electronics, the development of affordable microprocessor technology and advances in digital telecommunications; these advances had already changed the hobbyist and professional view of electronics somewhat before the Internet itself was considered mainstream. Some professionals working in analog electronics never suspected that digital electronics would eventually supplant analog devices in many application areas; this is not universally true--one can always point to exceptions, but they are exceptions. This happened before the Internet, or at most contemporaneously with its early incarnations, and certainly before the internet was considered a drain on the population of amateurs.
One also has to consider the number of professional electronic engineers involved in amateur radio. The job market for engineers declined, while the demand for computer programmers increased (until recently). The decreased demand for electronic engineers ought to be considered a factor in the amateur attrition rate.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by K6BBC on May 30, 2004
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Hamsexy.com is the funniest site I have ever visited. Some of it is quite brilliant. A lot of it is accurate. Like I have been saying , time to dump words like “Elmer” from our vernacular as well as never use those stupid hand-helps in public.
K6BBC
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by LA1SJA on May 31, 2004
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Sorry, but I have some fundamental problems with this question.
If you are more interested in computers and the Internet than in Ham Radio, than Internet is what you de facto are going to spend your time on.
And the other way around of cource if radio is your preference.
If over time you migrate from radio to computers, well accept it. It is by your own choice.
(Lets hope we all stay in some part of the radio hobby though.)
It is hard to see that there is much more to it.
Case (more or less) closed.
Apart from that, some additional comments:
1) Packet radio died a fast and painless death for everyday use almost overnight as the Internet became widespread.
Except for a few diehards that still uses it on a daily basis, most people have found that newsgroups and e-mail are superior in every context, (outside the emergency services of course), - also for communicating with fellow hams about radio issues outside of the radio spectrum.
Yes, I did have fun putting up packet nodes on a hilltop and watching them connect into the network to run traffic, but this is 10 to 15 years behind us now. And even back then, just a few in every country had the fun (and sometimes the heavy burden)of running the network. Most Hams were users like on the Internet today.
Even amateur radio has its internal market regulation.
What happened to packet is quite similar to the way the public teleprinter service disappeared worldwide as the telefax machine prices fell to a level where every business however small could afford to have one. No other important public telecom service has ever fallen apart that fast.
2) The computer is into just about everything by now.
So if it happens to enhance radio as a hobby by running PSK31 or by controlling a transceiver, why not enjoy it.
Having tried Eznec for antenna modelling I guess few would like to go back to manual calculations. Even fewer would be able to do the math. I would not.
Have fun, (- with radio.)
73 de Svein, LA1SJA.
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KF4VGX on June 1, 2004
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Sorry, but I have some fundamental problems with this question.
If you are more interested in computers and the Internet than in Ham Radio, than Internet is what you de facto are going to spend your time on.
And the other way around of cource if radio is your preference.
If over time you migrate from radio to computers, well accept it. It is by your own choice.
(Lets hope we all stay in some part of the radio hobby though.)
It is hard to see that there is much more to it.
Case (more or less) closed.
These are the reasons digital modes using computers to join with amateur radios is a must. To increase the use and promote our younger and computer users to ham radio. To combine the Internet and amateur radio was not really a choice to make for me ,it had to be done. Or ham radio will fade into the history books as all dinosaurs do .
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by LA1SJA on June 1, 2004
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Ham radio will no doubt fade in 2 generations from now.
Neither the Internet nor the computer will kill it off
Time and general changes in society will.
To avoid drawing flames, I guess I should add:
This is said by an (at least somewhat) active amateur.
There is a lot of fun to be had with radio still, and we will enjoy it fully in our time.
We should encourage new generations to joins us, but we should not have too high expectations.
By the way, it seems we are conducting this discussion on the net using computers..............
73 de Svein, LA1SJA..
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by NN6EE on June 2, 2004
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Svein,
You've got a point about the chance of our HOBBY going the way of "The Dinosaur" but it will take another few generations before any detectable drop in our hobby's numbers occur in my own opinion, but I will admit that having once also been a avid HF SWLer I now listen to Shortwave feeds via WRN (World Radio network) because there's NO atmospheric noise nor fading nor anything else to mess up your reception!!!
But as far as Amateur Radio is concerned I still love fighting the QRN & QRM on HF to try and work those elusive "NEW-ONEs!" whether it be on CW or phone! :-)))
Regards,
Jim/ee
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RE: Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by LA1SJA on June 5, 2004
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Jim/ee
I most certainly agree.
There is nothing like enjoying the "sound" of the CW bands on 40, 80 or 160m at night when the real DX comes along. Sometimes even on 20m late on a summers night.
Have fun.
Svein.
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KE5BGS on June 5, 2004
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Is the internet bad for Amateur Radio? I'd say no, since it was the Internet that got me interested enough in Amateur Radio to get my ticket last month. And it was the Internet, via that hilarious blog, HAMSEXY.COM which led me here.
I like to tinker with computers. I build my own. Had I been born thirty or forty years earlier, I would have built radios. Now I can build computers, and buy radios or kits, then string them together and do interesting things with them. It's like old-school phone phreaking, but with the Internet, and radios. Why not play with an Echolink setup via my laptop through my wireless network from my back yard? I will, once I gather together all the gear and get it playing nicely with each other.
I see lots of interesting recombinant and revolutionary things for both computing and Amateur Radio as these two diverse elements merge. For me, the goal is communications. If I want to shoot straight to the repeater with an HT, I can do that, or I can spend a day cobbling together a Rube Goldberg-esque rig to do the same thing, then go online to brag about it on my blog.
Life is good. Long live Ham Radio and the Internet!
KE5BGS
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by KG4ZXK on June 9, 2004
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Well let's see. IRLP got me interested finally in Ham Radio and I'm enjoying learning about all aspects of the hobby and even trying to learn code so I can get my general. Don't know if I will use CW but I have an open mind at this time.
For the past few weeks I have been running my own simplex IRLP node. So far I have learned a few things:
Simplex is interesting. Was getting too used to repeaters.
I learned how to build a cable and link my radio to the computer.
I likw IRLP better than Echo Link because I use my radio. Echolink is more like internet chat and I found it boring to me.
There are times that you can't get out on HF due to conditions beyond your control (band conditions, etc). The IRLP is a nice tool for direct communication, or folks traveling to check in and keep in touch with the locals.
I also see this as a good tool that can be used to bring new folks into the hobby. I learned all this mostly on my own. There seems to be no excitment in the amateur community here. Just a bunch of folks who want to play politics and be in control of everything. Didn't read anything about this when I was studying for my ticket.
Plus, I thought hams were suppose to be on the forefront of inovation and ideas. Anymore all I see are a bunch of crusty old farts that bitch and complain and never do anything to bring folks into the hobby. At least this part of the country. If you aren't a crusty old fart then please don't take offense.
However, I have had my ticket for over a year now and where are the elmers and the folks to teach us new folks about the hobby? I don't see any to be found.
Can the internet be bad for Ham Radio. No. The hams who sit back and complain and don't do anything fun and interesting to intice folks to look at the hobby are what's bad for the hobby. Just because you've already done it all doesn't mean it's not important to do it so us new hams have something to pass on to the next generation.
73's
- Keith, KG4ZXK
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Is the Internet Really Bad for Our Hobby?
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by HF2PWA on August 3, 2004
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If you find your self on internet more than ham radio 1 year ago.......YES
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