How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
Scott Schultz (N0IU)
on
July 15, 2004
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I recently put up an ad to sell my Heil microphone, Icom 8-pin cable and Icom inline preamp on a couple of Internet sites. Within hours, I received two very similar responses. One offered to pay my price and the other offered a substantial amount over what I was asking; even more than the items cost brand new!
Rule #1: If it sounds to good to be true, it is! OK, some people do have more money than brains, but I can not think of any reason why someone would offer to pay more than the items cost brand new.
The similarity of the responses was in the fact that the buyers were both owed a substantial amount of money. One was $3800 and the other was $5500. What they proposed was that their “client” pay me the total amount owed to them and after I deposited the money in my bank account, I would deduct the amount of their purchase and send them the balance along with the goods purchased.
Another similarity was that I was to contact a third party with whom I was to make shipping arrangements. Yet another similarity was that I was to edit my advertisement and mark the items as being sold. While each gave their name, neither gave their callsign (which they probably did not have any way!)
If I had received just one email with such a proposal, I wouldn’t have thought much of it. But when I received two almost identical proposals, that can only mean one thing: SCAM!
Even if it was legitimate, its just too much of a hassle to do business this way. I have bought and sold many things through internet classifieds. When I sell something, I usually instruct the buyer to send me a Postal Money Order. Once I receive it, I send the item. After the buyer receives the items and determines that he indeed has in his possession what I promised to sell him, then I deposit the money order.
We all know the phrase Caveat Emptor or “Let the buyer beware”, but with all the scams out there, the seller must also be aware!
73,
de Scott NØIU
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How stupid do they think we are?
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by N0IU on June 24, 2004
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P.S. I still have the microphone (HM10-Dual), Icom 8-pin cable and inline preamp (required for pre-PRO series transcivers) for sale.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by WIRELESS on July 15, 2004
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You made one very troubling statement. "If you saw ONE of these offers you wouldn't think much......." This scam has been running for years. If you only saw one and not two would you have bitten???? I hope not.
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KB1GMX on July 15, 2004
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To answer the rethorical question, they only need a few to fall for it to make it worth their effort and with an internet population of hundreds of millions
the odds of a few per million hits are pretty good.
You've learned of the nigerian scam. ;) Your seeing a varient of it that's quite old, maybe pre-internet even. Fraud by financial transfer instrument is old, very old.
The basic version of the internet nigerian scam is a email claiming to be from some foreign leader or banker that cannot access their money directly and requires a "co-banker" to launder the loot. Usually numbers are in millions and have a handeling offer of 10 to 30% of the total.. All they need is a bank account number to transfer through. Of course the millions are not real and the account number supplied is cleaned out ASAP by someone in a foreign country where recovery is at best unlikely.
Flavor two of that is the "I have a cashiers check for
xxxx$ and need to transact it, can I use it to pay for ZYX and you can wire me the excess?". The check is not real (or it was real before being withdrawn) and anyone that processes or passes it is liable for the total amount.
Allison
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KI6YN on July 15, 2004
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I watched an auction on eBay wherein the winner bought an Orion speaker for $10 more than the price of a new one from Ten Tec. Go figure. Buyer, look around and get pricing; go to the completed auctions and see what people paid for the same article. Note the condition and what guarantees there are. You can still get deals, but for the most part, you are better off to buy something 'eyeball to eyeball'.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by KC8VWM on July 15, 2004
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>>> I was to contact a third party with whom I was to make shipping arrangements. Yet another similarity was that I was to edit my advertisement and mark the items as being sold. While each gave their name, neither gave their callsign (which they probably did not have any way!) <<<
A good way to ensure you are not being ripped off from the Internet is to have the buyer email you a .jpg photo of a recent credit card bill statement.
Tell the person that for all the trouble, you will deduct $3 from his total amount. This usually stops all (so far) fraudulent orders dead in their tracks.
Never use any unknown "3rd parties" for any shipping arrangements.
Always ensure their email address is "verifiable." Stay away from anyone selling or buying anything using "free email address accounts"
Email addresses can sometimes be setup and staged in a few minutes for the purpose of scamming someone. "Legitimate" return email address extensions can also sometimes be traced by conducting a "whois" search. The origin of the service provider should correlate to the persons location.
Another method of verification is to directly ask the person to provide you with their IP address for verification purposes. If they have nothing to hide, this will not usually be a problem.
Tell them to go to this website and provide you with the resulting number the website indicates.
http://www.whatismyipaddress.com/
Then the next step is to verify the IP address they have given you by doing a "whois" search of that IP address.
The IP address search information should also correlate with the persons name and/or shipping information.
Also, if that person provides you with their name and shipping information, go to the online yellow pages to verify the information is correct. Never accept the idea of shipping to any other shipping address other than the one listed in that persons name in the phone book listing.
If the buyer has provided you with a telephone number you can also do a "reverse lookup" to ensure the information is correct. Go to google and plug in the telephone number in the search bar. ie. (123) 555-1212 and hit enter.
You might even "verify" the shipment with the correct shipping address information you see listed. The best way to do this is to surprise that person with a "courtesy telephone call" The listing will usually appear with both a name, telephone number and the persons home address.
Be especially aware of anyone making last minute shipping changes to any order.
If you are purchasing anything over the internet, always verify the sellers information first. If possible try to conduct order information by telephone. Especially credit card information.
Email is not secure even when it is encrypted!
- here's why,
First let's suppose you email your credit card number to a person using 128 bit encryption technology.
Emailing a credit card number to a person means that your email will probably remain on that persons computer for some time.
If that person does not have the proper safeguards in place (firewalls, virus protection etc.) on their PC, someone could access that computer remotely and steal your credit card information(not from you) but from the unsuspecting person you gave your credit card information to !!
Remember, don't buy into the pitch that encrypted email sent over the internet is secure. Sure email can be encrypted over the internet, but once it has arrived at its destination - it is anything but secure!
Use only 1 separate credit card for online transactions - and use it only for online purchases.
Make sure you setup the credit card account with passwords to prevent anyone from trying to change your address. A common trick for the scam artist to call the credit card company and report your card as lost or stolen. They proceed to request a new replacement card with a "change of address"
You wont even know anything even happened because it will be a new account under your name! You won't even see the credit card statement arrive in the mail!
Beware of internet scams - Become an informed consumer!
Go here for more information:
http://www.scambusters.org/index.html
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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by WA2JJH on July 15, 2004
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Agree with all said.
Try this.
Ask the seller for his date of birth and current zip code. GOTO www.anybirthday.com.
Put in the name and zip code(1 digit is OK too!)
You will get the sellers D.O.B if he votes or has a drivers licence.
If the seller is hesitant....FAHGETABOUT-IT
The other Web tools that Charles recommends are good too.
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by WA2JJH on July 15, 2004
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Agree with all said.
Try this.
Ask the seller for his date of birth and current zip code. GOTO www.anybirthday.com.
Put in the name and zip code(1 digit is OK too!)
You will get the sellers D.O.B if he votes or has a drivers licence.
If the seller is hesitant....FAHGETABOUT-IT
The other Web tools that Charles recommends are good too.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by W5HTW on July 15, 2004
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I, too, wonder what you would have done had you received only one such offer to buy. Would you have fallen for it?
This scam is used in selling everything there is that can be sold. That includes cars, watches, records, computers, ham gear, cameras, etc.
Some people think they are being trusted, when a guy wants to give you $5000 for a $200 dollar sale. They will jump at the chance. But when you deposit that $5K check, it will not clear. Even, in fact, if it is a money order, or a certified check, from some places, such as Nigeria, it will not clear. So you deduct your $200 and then write out a new check to the buyer for $4800 bucks. And, lo, the pain does start! If you don't have enough dough in your account (your own dough) to cover that check, you are going to have bounced checks all over the place. If you DO have enough dough in your account to cover the check, you won't have the instant the check is received by the other party. And there isn't one darned thing you can do about it! He has your $4800 bucks, as well as your $200, and you can't get at him.
There really are folks around who fall for this. A LOT of them. This is a check version of the pigeon drop.
If you treat business deals, yeah, even with hams, as real business deals, you will seldom go wrong. But think it through. And as a famous man once say, "Trust but verify."
Ed
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by DROLLTROLL on July 15, 2004
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These types of scams are called 419 scams by the Feds. For a hilarious read of some reverse scams done to these con artists then check out this web site;
http://www.419eater.com/html/letters.htm
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by WILLY on July 15, 2004
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Scott Schultz (N0IU) on July 15, 2004
...
"If I had received just one email with such a proposal, I wouldn’t have thought much of it. "
Really?
This is a rather old scam attempt that you have described. Apparently somehow this is your first exposure to either hearing of it, or seeing it.
I'm very surprised.
Glad you did not get scammed, and thank you for your sincere effort to be sure that all hams are aware that this scam is out there.
73
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by K0RGR on July 15, 2004
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Talk about scams - I just got off the AES website where I ordered about $40 worth of stuff. After I completed the transaction, I get a webpage with audio that says 'to claim your prize for making a purchase with AES today, click here'. This takes you to a page that says 'Click YES to get your $10 off on your next AES purchase... and at the same time get your membership in ...' some kind of membership discount program that apparently costs money.
The Internet is now an excuse for otherwise decent companies to gouge, cheat, and steal. Makes me want to run away to the mountains with a 2 watt CW rig and a fan dipole.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by WILLY on July 15, 2004
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by KC8VWM on July 15, 2004
"A good way to ensure you are not being ripped off from the Internet is to have the buyer email you a .jpg photo of a recent credit card bill statement. "
How about all the people out there that don't have a scanner or other equipment to make such a .jpg file?
Further, this wouldn't work to prove anything anyway. I know that before I would ever send out such a picture, that virtually any identifying or useful information would be blacked out. In other words, it would be useless to the recipient for helping to limit a potential scam - he'd have nothing more than if I'd sent nothing.
...
" Always ensure their email address is "verifiable." Stay away from anyone selling or buying anything using "free email address accounts" "
You would limit your pool of buyers. Many, many people save money by using Hotmail and Juno, for example.
...
"Legitimate" return email address extensions can also sometimes be traced by conducting a "whois" search. The origin of the service provider should correlate to the persons location. "
It should?
Why?
For example, there are many services, that provide local dial-up phone numbers, that are not necessarily geographically near the customer.
...
"Then the next step is to verify the IP address they have given you by doing a "whois" search of that IP address. "
I just did this, for fun. Dialed my 'local' isp. The whois came back with info about yet another provider with an address that is over 2 hours driving time away from here.
"The IP address search information should also correlate with the persons name and/or shipping information. "
Why?
See above.
"Also, if that person provides you with their name and shipping information, go to the online yellow pages to verify the information is correct. Never accept the idea of shipping to any other shipping address other than the one listed in that persons name in the phone
book listing. "
Why?
I've purchased several items on eBay. All were shipped to my work location. I knew that I'd never be home to accept a UPS delivery, so I had the seller send to my work. Granted that if the seller looked me up, he would have found that the town to which he was shipping was only about 15 miles from my home.
"If the buyer has provided you with a telephone number you can also do a "reverse lookup" to ensure the information is correct. Go to google and plug in the telephone number in the search bar. ie. (123) 555-1212 and hit enter. "
Not absolutely conclusive, but a good step in the right direction.
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"Remember, don't buy into the pitch that encrypted email sent over the internet is secure. Sure email can be encrypted over the internet, but once it has arrived at its destination - it is anything but secure! "
A very interesting perception. It is worth serious thought.
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"Beware of internet scams - Become an informed consumer! "
When dealing with a ham, how about just looking up the callsign, and with name and address, get the phone number and simply call? If the number is unlisted, then send an email asking for it - but at this point be a little suspicious.
Personally, I would deal with only someone in my same country. It might make it easier to get to them, should need be. Further, I prefer to deal with someone that is within driving distance. Driving distance in this case varies with the value of the purchase. In other words, if you rip me off for a thousand dollars, I'm apt to show up on your doorstep, even if you live many, many hundreds of miles away.
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by WILLY on July 15, 2004
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by WA2JJH on July 15, 2004
"Ask the seller for his date of birth and current zip code.
GOTO www.anybirthday.com. Put in the name and zip code(1 digit is OK too!) You will get the sellers D.O.B if he votes or has a drivers licence.
If the seller is hesitant....FAHGETABOUT-IT "
Asking the seller for his birth date is likely to backfire on you.
This whole thread concerns wariness. The instant you ask someone for personal info, it should make them suspect YOU.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by WILLY on July 15, 2004
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by W5HTW on July 15, 2004
...
"Some people think they are being trusted, when a guy wants to give you $5000 for a $200 dollar sale. They will jump at the chance. But when you deposit that $5K check, it will not clear. Even, in fact, if it is a money order, or a certified check, from some places, such as Nigeria, it will not clear. So you deduct your $200 and then write out a new check to the buyer for $4800 bucks. And, lo, the pain does start! If you don't have enough dough in your account (your own dough) to cover that check, you are going to have bounced checks all over the place. If you DO have enough dough in your
account to cover the check, you won't have the instant the check is received by the other party. And there isn't one darned thing you can do about it! He has your $4800 bucks, as well as your $200, and you can't get at him. "
When I first saw this scam, I thought justice would be to turn it around on them, and simply cash the check or money order. Of course, send them nothing.
Quickly I realized that wouldn't accomplish anything, since it is a bad check or counterfeit money order in the first place - it would have no effect on them.
Next I wondered if instead of cashing the check, if just getting it in hand, along with copies of whatever correspondence would be useful to any law enforcement agency? A bit of the old, "Somebody ought to do something about this" feeling.
But who?
Can any agency?
At present, I feel like it wouldn't be worth trying - and that is a shame. It would be nice to see scammers get their just desserts.
73
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by K4JF on July 15, 2004
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"Talk about scams - I just got off the AES website where I ordered about $40 worth of stuff. After I completed the transaction, I get a webpage with audio that says 'to claim your prize for making a purchase with AES today, click here'. This takes you to a page that says 'Click YES to get your $10 off on your next AES purchase... and at the same time get your membership in ...' some kind of membership discount program that apparently costs money.
The Internet is now an excuse for otherwise decent companies to gouge, cheat, and steal."
Let me see now.... hmmmm.... giving you $10 off your next purchase is "gougeing, cheating and stealing"????? Wish more people would cheat me that way!
And nobody signed you up for the discount without your permission. Those programs CAN save you money if you buy enough each year. Do the math: it is simple - and don't buy if it is not to your advantage. Simple enough, and nobody is cheating anybody.
Let's save our wrath to those who are truly cheating somebody.
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KC8VWM on July 15, 2004
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Drolltroll said,
For a hilarious read of some reverse scams done to these con artists
My favorite one was by a guy named "Phil Mycracken"
Apparently "Phil" scammed the scammer when he said he was going to bring him loads of cash to help save his dying nigerian family. He sent the scammer "confirmation" by emailing him a fake flight intinerary and requested that the 411 scammer make him a hotel reservation.
The scammer ended up making the hotel reservation and verified it with Phil. The 411 scammer ended up loosing HIS money on the deal instead.
Very Funny!
http://www.419eater.com/html/jonathan_luthman.htm
Thanks Droll..
73
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by K7JQ on July 15, 2004
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Very simple solution:
ANYTHING with complex or out of the ordinary payment terms....DELETE the e-mail and MOVE ON and wait for a legit offer!
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KG6JKJ on July 15, 2004
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I'm glad alot of you know about these Nigerian scams. Besides looking at the 419eater website (a personal favorite!), copy the address below into your browser for a story about a dude who reverse-scammed the scammer (not for money - the scammer had to pay substantial duty on something of no value). It's amazing and you should see the pictures of the "powerbook" he sent.
The story of the P-P-P-Powerbook: http://69.93.112.102/~pbook/
Here are more anti-scam links:
www.scamorama.com (more 419 stories)
www.quatloos.com (have a look at the Brad Christensen Exhibit for some wildly funny scambaiting stories)
The more people who are on to these scams, the harder of a time the scammers will have being successful.
73's
Rich Whited
KG6JKJ
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by KE4ZHN on July 15, 2004
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The delete key is the most wonderful invention on the computer. Perfect for Nigerian scammers...and any other spam that may come along.
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by K5MAR on July 15, 2004
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Well, I checked the anybirthday.com website, and it didn't have me in it. Yes, I have a DL, since 1969, and have been a registered voter since 1971.
As for all the stuff about IP addresses, etc, I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to do that, nor the inclination to try. The only thing that came up on the whatismyipaddress.com was two popup adds, nothing else.
And nobody is getting a copy of my credit card statement.
The last time I did a Google on my telephone number, nothing returned, and it's been listed in my name for almost 30 years.
All UPS shipments I receive are sent to a friend's place of business, not my home, as I've "lost" several packages left on my porch by UPS when I wasn't home.
In spite of all this, my ebay buyer rating at 140+ purchases is 99.9%. Can't imagine why those people chose to do business with me, I can't or won't meet any of these guidelines!
Mark S.
K5MAR
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by WB2WIK on July 15, 2004
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To answer the original (title) question:
Evidently, "pretty stupid."
I'm glad for this article, though, as another reminder of the wild and wacky world of internet dealings...
[BTW I forward all my Nigerian e-mail to the White House.]
WB2WIK/6
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by W6EZ on July 15, 2004
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These are old scams and I have been reading warnings about them for several years now.
While you can not be faulted for wanting to warn people about such things most people already have heard about thes scams (unless they have JUST got on the internet or had their head under a rock or something).
Of course there will always be the few who fall for scams (and who knows when they will come out with the near perfect scam that will suck us all into its' web) and some people are just easy prey. That is why the folks who put out these scams keep trying. They are anglers, trying to make a dishonest buck for sure, but I would bet the phishing is the real lure.
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by KC8YVE on July 15, 2004
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My Family was scammed out of $2000.00 by a Business on line, the advertise on national TV and Have William Shatner of Star Trek as there Spoksman. The Company name is priceline.com There customer service reps are the most Rude and obnoxious i have ever heard.
Beware of Priceline.com Even Lisa Gillingham, Senior Vice President, Customer Service and operations is totally unreachable.
As a result I created a website at my domain.
http://www.albert-cordova.com/priceline/priceline.html
Beware of Priceline.com They have Many unhappy customers.
Best To All.
Tracy
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by X-WB1AUW on July 15, 2004
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I am not a bank.
I don’t cash checks.
I don’t finance something I sell.
If I loan money to family, I would like to be re-paid; but I will only loan funds I can live without.
I prefer Post Money Orders, so that I can cash the check and then mail the item.
It is much easier than depositing a check and having to wait for it to clear the issuing bank (as the banks firmly point out to me, any check or money order can be stolen, altered, or forged; as a result they wait until they get their funds before they credit my account).
Seems to work just fine so far.
Bob
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by KJJ4321 on July 15, 2004
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Welcome to the internet where fraud runs rampant. Americans are known around the world as easy marks & as many times as this scam has been written about, many still fall for it.
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by KE2IV on July 15, 2004
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Scott,
Do you have any idea how few microphones are available in Nigeria?
The things are like gold! They are begging for them in the streets. People will kill for a good Heil (espescially an Icom wired one!).
So just send them your bank account number (with a cc: to me too) and you, sir too, will be a rich man BAWANA!
:-)
73,
George
KE2IV
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by K0RGR on July 15, 2004
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OK, how many people clicked on 'YES' on the AES website to get your free $10 and didn't read the fine print?
Sorry JF, I found their web design to be extremely misleading! I've been their customer for decades and I have always trusted AES. If I had not hesitated long enough to read the small print while checking out after a web purchase, I'd have blithely filled out what looked like a questionnaire, not realizing I was ordering something I probably don't want.
I believe it is calculated to mislead, and my trust in AES has just evaporated.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by W0NFU on July 16, 2004
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I would encourage the forwarding of anything which smells of being a scam to uce@ftc.gov. I used to get hit regularily with the nigerian scam which I reported to the FTC. Recently I saw on the news that the FTC caught several individuals.
I have no way of knowing if my efforts contributed to the captures but I suspect every little helps.
73 - Larry WØNFU
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KC8VWM on July 16, 2004
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>> Beware of Priceline.com They have Many unhappy customers. <<
I have a friend that purchased an airline ticket through them. As it turns out, they were billed 42 times for the same transaction.
Yeah he saved like $50.00 buying through them but spent almost an entire year fighting to have the charges removed from his credit card statements.
What a bargain huh?
73
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by WB5PLJ on July 16, 2004
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yep I just got this same type of thing as well for a PCR1000 asking $280 and they offered $5000.
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by KC8VWM on July 16, 2004
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W0NFU says,
>>I would encourage the forwarding of anything which smells of being a scam to uce@ftc.gov.<<
Funny you should say that. I once replied to a Nigerian scam guy once. I told him that I would be more than happy to assist him / his family - with the transfer of 1 million dollars to my bank account.
I requested him to email my personal "accountant" directly at my companies "treasury department."
(I dangled this carrot!) I went on to explain to him that this is where all our "piles" of money & transactions are normally kept for safekeeping.
I instructed him to provide our "treasury department" with all the necessary details and information required so the transaction would run smoothly. They would take care of everything from that point on.
For "security reasons" I asked if he could verify his personal identity. So, I asked if he could send me a personal photograph of himself holding up a sign with his name and email address on it. This photo will be included on our special "security database."
(In other words, - forwarded to the webmaster of this link:)
http://www.secretservice.gov/advisories.shtml
Learn more about our company profile by visiting this link at any time.
http://www.secretservice.gov/director.shtml
Future inquiries (or transactions) can be made at any time by clicking on "contact information" at this link:
http://www.secretservice.gov/alert419.shtml
Too funny.
73
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by WB2WIK on July 16, 2004
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This has gotten pretty far off-topic, but I'll raise my hand as another dissatisfied Priceline.com customer who won't use their services again.
As a very frequent traveler, I've found I can do better than their prices for tickets to anywhere by simply making last-second arrangements to fill a seat that would be otherwise vacant and dealing directly with the airline to do so. Of course, this applies to cruises, hotel rooms and so forth as well.
Last month found a deal for a $1699 cruise (2 person cost, including everything) available for $99.00 exactly, if we could have made the dock departure in time (we couldn't, and missed it). These deals are available every day of the year, and it's great fun if you catch one and enjoy it. Heck, the $99 they were asking to fill a vacant cabin probably would have barely covered the big lobster dinner we would have eaten the first night of the cruise! But they'd rather have bodies in the cabins then sail with them empty, regardless.
WB2WIK/6
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by N5ZFW on July 16, 2004
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Beware of this!! This is very similar to the "Nigerian Scheme". I am a police officer in Texas and we have worked several of these even in our town of 13,000 or so. They want you to put their "money" in your account and then let them draw the "money" out of your account at a later date. They will do it alright. EVERY PENNY!! and then they usually steal your identity. They then use your SS # driver's license #, name and date of birth to open all kinds of accounts. They now have for the lack of a better term "a blank check. Your credit is more than ruined. Be safe and hope to hear you on the bands soon.
Greg (N5ZFW)
Cherokee County, Texas ARES
Assist. Emergency Coordinator
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by AH6GI on July 16, 2004
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your suggestions are contrived and much too complicated.
Deal through eBay, watch the feedback, only handle the proper amount of money. Keep it simple.
de ah6gi/4
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by WA1WLA on July 16, 2004
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Greg (N5ZFW) Said, "They then use your SS # " why would any one give his tax number? that is what the SS# is. I called the cable company to be connected and they asked me for my SS#, I told them to call the IRS if they had to have it and I was told the IRS will not give it or verify it. Are we going to have a national ID number using the SS# or we already have it.
As for the scamers I like to bait them and then I tell them if his wife is fat please be kind and put her on a diet, when she is in shape send pictures.
WA1WLA
Constantine
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KG6AMW on July 17, 2004
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Its not a matter of intelligence. People fall for these pitches because they see a way to make a quick buck. If you accept the premise that good things in life are to be earned, then you won't find yourself in these situations. However, some will be driven by greed and will lose. You can't cheat an honest man or woman.
KG6AMW
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by W7DJM on July 17, 2004
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I've complained to some ebay sellers about the fact that they "ONLY TAKE PAYPAL" on something I'm interested in, (something I will not use) and more than one has told me of him or friends getting burned on supposedtly legit cashiers/bank drafts or US Postal money orders that were counterfit.
I've been semi-scammed by hams, too. I've got a Dentron Tuner sitting right here in front of me that was described on ebay as haveing a "perfect" front panel, (the picture looked like a reflection) and both the chrome inserts on the knobs are all gouged and scratched up. It didn't happen in shipping, either.
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by WB4QNG on July 18, 2004
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I quit my job and used all of my savings to give to four or five of these EMALES I got. They needed some good faith money. I understand that. I am now just waiting for millions to flow in. You guys are crazy. All this free money just lying around and you won't take it. Just look for the guy at the next hamfest carring my IC7800 out to the new Benz with all the antennas on it. That will me. I just wish I hadn't quit my job so soon. I forgot that these oversea transactions take so long. Got a letter from the bank the other day saying that they might have to kick me out of my house because I haven't made a payment in so long. I am sure my checks will start comming in soon,
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KE2IV on July 18, 2004
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W7Djm,
You and I will never do biz on eBay.
And I am glad about that.
Because I will not only "only TAKE PayPal" when I sell. But, also, I will never pay except VIA PayPal using my CC.
You see. I only bid and pay on eBay via CC accepted PayPal. I get fraud protection from my CC company.
[Oh, and I bet you also have never had a real cup of coffee from Starbucks either. Just a guess, Old Man.]
73,
KE2IV
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by KG8JF on July 18, 2004
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Even if both had been legit, i would not do business that way cause it's just such a hassle.
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by AH6RR on July 18, 2004
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W7DJM
I sell and buy on ebay via Paypal. It insures you from fraud. The only gripe I have about sellers that a lot of them will only ship via UPS. UPS only has Blue label to Hawaii and thats twice the price of USPS Priority. So you UPS only guys think twice and add the option to chose between UPS and USPS.
And some of the stories on 419busters are so funny I can't belive some of the reverse scams that some fall for and the one the chick did to one scammer ROFLMAO what some men will do!
My 2 cents
Roland
AH6RR
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by WD5DBC on July 18, 2004
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Charles said:
"Another method of verification is to directly ask the person to provide you with their IP address for verification purposes. If they have nothing to hide, this will not usually be a problem.
Tell them to go to this website and provide you with the resulting number the website indicates.
http://www.whatismyipaddress.com/
Then the next step is to verify the IP address they have given you by doing a "whois" search of that IP address.
The IP address search information should also correlate with the persons name and/or shipping information. "
Charles this is misinformation. I am posting this reply from a Cox Cable Internet connection. So if you do an IP lookup on my current IP address, it wont match my name or address. At work, my static IP address shows as a Covad address.
hc
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by N8FVJ on July 19, 2004
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The thieves & con artists are as thick as flies on a pig farm.
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by KA8UWR on July 19, 2004
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I love it when these guys offer to send me a check for $5,000,so I say go ahead with the deal,they taake all the time of printing up a bogus check,plus pay all postaal shipping charges for the letter,and related costs,then I tell them I have changed my mind!!! they aree out all those related costs!!! I have a stacck of $5,000 cashiers checks here,anybody need any cheap wallpaper!! word must have gotton around,I don't get them anymore!! stopped them dead in thier tracks!!
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by KC8VWM on July 19, 2004
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The IP address search information should also correlate with the persons name and/or shipping information. "
WD5DBC said,
>>> Charles this is misinformation. I am posting this reply from a Cox Cable Internet connection. So if you do an IP lookup on my current IP address, it wont match my name or address. <<<
I am not so sure if collecting the origin of a persons transaction is necessarily regarded as "misinformation."
To further clarify - While it may be true that your personal name and home address and other related personal contact information are not directly displayed to the end user, IP addresses are often used as an "identifier" to track down where the source or origins of online fraud takes place.
While IP address information have been known not to be 100% foolproof in every case, it does provide a person with a reliable means of reducing the risks by crosschecking "before" an online deal goes bad.
Online banking or credit card services is one area where similar tracking of a persons IP address information takes place when purchases are made online.
Did you know?
There are people that have been ripped off from an online purchase over the internet and these same people never even had internet access or ever used a credit card online?
Their credit card number was merely generated by the "fraudsters" completely at random! It just happened to be YOUR credit card number they used at the time to make the purchase. So sometimes, no matter how much you try and protect your credit card number from people on the internet, sometimes it can be stolen anyways .. and completely by random chance!
For example, Once someone had used my credit card number online and then subscribed to an online dating service. (My wife apparently didn't see the humor in this when the credit card statement arrived in the mail!)
The credit card company / bank then reported to me the actual IP address where the transaction originated from. I contacted the service provider for the IP address they indicated. Under such circumstances involving online fraud, the service provider was more than willing to provide me with the person's name, address and even a telephone number to call.
Quite often, a generalized "Geographical" location of the persons information or service provider is displayed when you run a persons IP address. This can be especially useful in distinguishing if an intended purchase appears suspicious or not.
That is to say if the persons shipping address he has indicated to you is located somewhere in Indiana, and his IP address information indicates his order is originating from a location in New York City, - then I would have to question the validity of that persons purchasing intent.
One piece of software in particular for this purpose can be downloaded here:
http://www.tialsoft.com/mnettrace/
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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by DROLLTROLL on July 20, 2004
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Just found this article from the BBC relating how the superstitious in Nigeria think that answering certain "Killer Numbers" on ones cellphone will bring instant death.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3906607.stm
Think of the fun we could have answering some of their scams then eliciting them to call back on one of our "Killer Numbers".
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RE: How stupid do they think we are?
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by KC8EBZ on July 22, 2004
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Iknow just what you are speaking of thanks more ham must speak out to fight this kind of scam .Ihave a ic290h all mode itwas sold new with the ic-hm10 but the mike thats on it now is hm12 do you still want to sell the hm10? thanks for your time.frank (kc8ebz).
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RE: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by N6XA on July 23, 2004
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In the past emails were sent to me asking to help a foreigner by depositing money in the U.S. for them. Now just think for a second, there are laws covering international banking. Since I am not a International Banker or Lawyer the risk of running afoul of the law is just too great.
It turns out that later I found out this was indeed a email fraud scam. Anyone who participated was a fool.
Would suggest the precaution for members of our Ham Community. Get a call sign, check them out on the web and if in doubt, make a phone call to speak directly with them. We are trained communicators, and I think most of us can make a better decision when we speak directly with someone. Besides if a person did commit fraud after working out the details via telephone with you, wouldn't that crime then be a concern of the FCC. Or am I wrong on that point?
Ed
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How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
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by KC4ZGP on August 23, 2004
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Now, now folks. Settle down. Scams never hurt anyone and never made anyone bleed. And they are trying to earn a dishonest living aren't they. So start your own scam.
Kraus
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