Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
Derwin Ferrell Brown (KE4QDC)
on
July 11, 2004
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Local 2M repeater becomes a zoo!
Well as luck would have it our local group put on a training class for local people wanting to get into ham radio. Being the kind soles we are we thought that a bit of goodwill would further this wonderful hobby.
Well after 5 weeks of classroom training it was time for us volunteer examiners to assemble a testing session which we were more than happy to do. Well our greatest fear & what we thought would happen has happened. The local two-meter repeater has some of the worse operators now that I have ever seen. No order at all, and for the most part it has turned into another CB world.
So let this be a lesson to us all. Maybe there is some truth in the fact that we need to be careful how easy we make it to get into this hobby. This has made me wish I never had gotten VE certification. If you are ever in or around Cumming Georgia and tune in 147.150 repeater be forewarned. I am moving my activity to the UHF band to get away from all this nerve bothering activity.
73
KE4QDC
Ferrell
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N5HNY on July 11, 2004
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Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. We have a 147.15 repeater here too and it also has become a Super CB repeater. Not unlike a lot of others I hear today.
I live in the south so I expect a little drawl but it goes beyond that. People I talk to in person actually go into this CB mode when they get on the air. I have talked to them about it and they really didn't know they were doing it. It seems to have helped.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N4CQR on July 11, 2004
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Another example of why I think not everyone needs a amateur radio license.
Craig
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by RADIO123US on July 11, 2004
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We had several of the CB types on our local repeater using 10 codes and CB slang. We spoke with them privately about this, and they told us to basically leave them alone. When they continued to operate this way, the repeater suddenly started having power problems every time they would use it...eventually, they got fed up with it and moved on the a more "reliable" repeater. It funny, because our repeater has worked perfectly ever since.
There will be those on this thread that will say that these types just need to be elmered. After this incident on our repeater, I am convinced that there are folks that will NEVER change, regardless of how much they are elmered...and the more we lower our standards, the more we will see these type of things happening.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by NX5W on July 11, 2004
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Ferrell you must come over here and listen to this one.
We must be having a "Repeater Malfuction" around this place.
It starts arond 7:00 a.m. MDT local and goes on on several repeaters to around 11:00 p.m. MDT
The people in question must have a severe case of being in "HEAT"!
Example: "OOOOHHHH I Love you, No, No, I love you more"
and "I Love you Honey" and "OH Gee, Dear I love you this much"! WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?
Then if that isn't enough, they even depict one of the call signs as if it was a Barn Yard Animal. Because of the ending is what a Cow would do. MOO!
Granted I know that people must be in "LOVE", but good grief looks as though to me they could at least wait until they are at home to act if they were in "Heat" or abosultely had the "Hots" for each other. These people I have been told are in there 40's & 50's. Why haven't they grown up yet?
Anyone that listens to this will get "ILL"!
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by EXPRO on July 11, 2004
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Yet another shinning example of how the boys at newington have aided the growth of ham radio. What a wonderful world we live in.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8CP on July 11, 2004
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I havent noticed much CB lingo on our local repeaters, but the the local Police wanabee's resemble the north end of a southbound horse.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8MMZ on July 11, 2004
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Ferrell:
5 weeks doesn't really tell us much about how long you had them - how many classroom hours did you have them for. How many hours were spent on etiquette? Did you spend too many hours on rules and regulations (which they can read "after class") and not enough time on operating practice??
In no uncertain terms, you are their Elmer - and the operating practices they employ are a direct mirror of the ones they were taught.
Well now it's time for service after the sale. Instead of abandoning 2M for UHF, you should reign those turkeys in. You unleashed 'em on the world, now you take a little responsibility and straighten them out, instead of ducking and covering.
I don't want to hear your whining unless you've had some one on ones with those folks. Quit your whining and quit being a chicken - suck it up and fix it!
73s de N8MMZ/4
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KR4WM on July 11, 2004
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This would be a great use for Echolink! You could set it up where paying customers would pay to be "entertained" over the internet by these brazen actors/actresses. Then you can use the money to further your club pursuits. After you reach a comfortable funding level, hire a good lawyer and have these people thrown off the air! (After all, you're not charging for your communications, you're selling an "entertainment service on the internet" by rebroadcasting unprotected communications that just happened to be picked up by your Bearcat scanner...)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 11, 2004
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Ref N8MMZ: Let me speak up for Ferrell and his situation just a bit. We did exactly as Ferrell has done. Only we tried to elmer them for two years, see that "2" years. We would get cussed the machines would get jammed. You name it and it was going on. It got so bad here finally i had to bring in the fcc. Now things are just fine. I could'nt run from it i own the repeater. This is going on all over the country and the first reaction is to simply never go back to the repeater system. Its on hf too and these types tend to stick together on certain freqs. You can talk to them untill you're blue in the face and they are still just dumbass cbers. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. This fits the situation here very well. Getting an amateur radio license but still operating like you're on cb does not make you a ham. I had to shut my auto patch down. I had one wanting to call his girl friend up and talk filth to her over the air. "Just one example" I could write a book on this subject but i'll spare you all. We reap what arrl sew. You're witnessing first hand the dumb down of amateur radio and perfect examples of the end result of those actions.
73
John WR8D
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8ZTY on July 11, 2004
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How is your local repeater becoming CB like?
Do the operators use profanity? Are they using it for commercial business?
Are they using it to evade the police and speeding tickets?
Are they using it to find hookers?
My guess is no. If that were the problem then you could get their license suspended.
No, my guess is that you don’t like their lingo and 10 codes. I don’t like them either but they are not against the ARMS rules.
Cut them some slack. Welcome them in and eventually they will grow-up. Fight them and they will forever be a thorn in your side.
BTW, I hate when people butcher the King’s English. For example saying I am “done” when you mean that I am “finished” Still I will talk with people who make that goof. Remember the roast is done, I am finished.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WIRELESS on July 11, 2004
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"So let this be a lesson to us all. Maybe there is some truth in the fact that we need to be careful how easy we make it to get into this hobby"
Where did the author of the above quote get the idea he has any control over licensing?
Ham Radio has always had groups of hams that were considered undesireable by other groups. I remember alot of hams over the past decades I thought were idiots. But it doesn't matter. There are lots of ways to ignore and exclude undesireables in everyday operation.
Hams tend to have an idealistic and totally urealistic view of hamdom. Those that can adapt and ignore who they don't want to associate with are the successful servivers. In other words, quit whining that the world isn't like you want it. Nobody wants to hear about it or really cares. Make your own world.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8VUL on July 11, 2004
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This might be another oportunity to be an example to the "CBers". Get some operators on the air at the same time and get a "rotation" going.. When they ( CBers) use slang , correct them.. give them lessons on proper procedures, SET the example. IT WORKS.. It might be frustrating, but I am sure they want to fit in with the the old timers..Be an On Air ELMER..
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8ZTY on July 11, 2004
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To early in the morning.
I wrote ARMS. I don't know where I got that.
Of course, I meant ARS.
Philip
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 11, 2004
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Ref N8ZTY: Long live the "KING". Elvis that is. I think most of us talk better than he did anyway or is dat anyways??
have a nice day om.
John WR8D
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RE: W8ZTY
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by KR4WM on July 11, 2004
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Getting ENTIRELY off the subject at hand....
Well, you're not exactly right. Meaning #1 in the dictionary, followed by other meanings:
From www.dictionary.com:
Done: Past participle of do.
adj.
1. Having been carried out or accomplished; finished: a done deed.
2. Cooked adequately.
3. Socially acceptable: Spitting on the street is just not done in polite society.
4. Informal. Totally worn out; exhausted.
-KR4WM
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RE: N8ZTY
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by KR4WM on July 11, 2004
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Sorry, can't read, it's too early in the morning.... I messed up your callsign.
-KR4WM
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KF4VGX on July 11, 2004
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Another mouthful of words from someone who says
on two meter . ( I'm QRT at my destination or I'm gonna QSY to another repeater) on the 511 Repeater here in Myrtle Beach S.C. Its heard all the time by the local Skywarn E.C.'s.
Keep your nose clean Web your to old to be childish.
KR4WM on July 11, 2004
This would be a great use for Echolink! You could set it up where paying customers would pay to be "entertained" over the internet by these brazen actors/actresses. Then you can use the money to further your club pursuits. After you reach a comfortable funding level, hire a good lawyer and have these people thrown off the air! (After all, you're not charging for your communications, you're selling an "entertainment service on the internet" by rebroadcasting unprotected communications that just happened to be picked up by your Bearcat scanner...)
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W6VZV on July 11, 2004
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In Southern California, the no-code Techs have largely been an asset to our hobby, and they have been thoroughly socialized into the "ham" way of doing things. The main exception to this is a guy who is operating without any license at all, and who has repeatedly been cited by authorities (and FCC) for illegal conduct.
The hobby does need more hams, or it will die. Yes, there needs to be entrance requirements to prevent idiots from joining: I recommend a stiff written exam that focuses on the legalities, simple theory, and safety. That should do the trick.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by RADIO123US on July 11, 2004
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What I believe we are seeing is the result of licensing becoming too easy. If someone doesn't have to WORK for something, they don't take it as seriously as something they had to put some REAL effort in obtaining. A 30 question multiple choice test does NOT make a good ham operator. I don't claim to have the answers to how to fix this problem, but making the tests easier for the sake of increasing the numbers of ham operators only results in these types of issues. Maybe the ARRL needs to focus on QUALITY instead of quantity....
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K6TPL on July 11, 2004
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I agree in Vancouver Washington we have groups like truckers that have taken over several machines and then there are the family of operators who use the machine as a FRS radio. It makes listening to the repeater almost impossible. Unless I want to hear about Aunt Martha's latest illness or what they are going to have for dinner. A couple years ago there was a kid calling and calling and calling on the .24 machine, Thinking perhap's he wanted to talk to someone I called him only to be told " My Mother told me not to talk to strangers" I think that word kind of points to what is happening here.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N0RTU on July 11, 2004
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Hello All
Well, I think there are circumstances that might make each repeater owner (be it an individual or club) handle things differently, but here is what has been done near me.
The repeater that I frequent is owned and maintained by an incorporated club. We have elected officers, board members, etc.
The repeater trustee(s) is a very personable op who is usually the first to strike up a conversation with a new operator who appears.
But, he is also a staunch supporter of the clubs WRITTEN POLICY on etiquette! New ops who use less than reasonable speech are contacted by club members and/or the trustee and are reminded that any type of speech that is prohibited by the etiquette policy will not be tolerated on the club repeater. If the offending op can be contacted off the air, at their home, that is the preferred method. If the offender cannot be found or contacted by the trustee or club members(s) and appears on the repeater using less than acceptable speech, the admonition is given on the air.
Our club has a WRITTEN policy statement which is available to any licensed ham. I believe it is also on the club web site. No ham is exempt from the written policy.
In the event that a ham has been warned and continues to speak in an offending manner on the club repeater, a club member will "tone down" or shut off the repeater for a short period and the offending operator will be formally warned he is no longer welcomed to use the repeater. Many hams don't know it, but if the repeater trustee has the power to "ban" offending operators from using the equipment for which the trustee is responsible. These "bans" have been upheld by the FCC more than once and can be enforced by the FCC.
So, to those who have posted here with problems or for any who have read these posts and have similar problems, I hope this helps. I believe the main thing here is to have written policy in place concerning repeater use. The policy must be made public and must be easily accessable. For any who do not follow the policy, it must be made clear that their actions will have consequences. Also, any repeater owner/trustee/control operator MUST be able to deactivate or disable the repeater in the event that the machine is being used in an unacceptable/illegal manner.
I can't say for anyone else's situation, but where I live, this policy has proven out and stood the test of time.
73
de
Mike
N0RTU
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K9DI on July 11, 2004
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KE4QDC, I have to agree with N8MMZ on this one. If these brand new ops are not acting right on the air, then it behooves, you, their elmers, to paraphrase an old army saying, "Shut up and ELMER!!"
As a parralell, think back to when you were first licensed to drive a car, were you ready to go up against Mario Andretti, no, didn't think so. How long were you licensed before you were actually a competant and safe driver? Same principle applies to this situation. Now, think back to when you first got your ham license. Were you a first class op right out of the chute. I bet NOT! I'm willing to lay almost any odds that you made mistakes on the air and had an older op or ops pull you aside and point out your errors and I'm betting your elmers also discussed with you the proper way to behave/operate. I remember back to when I was first licensed in 1992 and made an innapropriate remark on the air. An older op, pulled me up short and set me straight. The kindness and patience shown by the older ops around me helped form me into a better operator. The cycle had come full circle and I find myself following the gentle, but firm example set for me by my elmers when dealing with new operators on 2M.
I will reiterate, how can you expect brand new freshly minted ops to know how to properly operate without having a good example to follow? It's like taking a labrador puppy without any training and expecting that puppy to know how to retrieve like it's dam the first day you hunt with it. Not going to happen, it takes patience and time to train that puppy to know what it's supposed to do.
Depending on how many new ops there are it just might seem like a zoo while things get shaken down. While these new ops learn the ropes.
I don't know about your "kind soles", but my soles are made by BA Mason, and my soul is at peace...:)
Vy 73
de
Wayne K9DI
k9di at k9di dot org
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by RADIO123US on July 11, 2004
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One thing that must be pointed out is those that use these types of bad operating practices usually don't have much commitment to the ham radio hobby, and over time, they find there are less and less folks that want to talk to them. So they eventually get bored and move on to some other hobby.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by EHAM_GUEST_001 on July 11, 2004
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Ferret,
I'm sure the newer and younger generation will finally come around and quit saying 73's and start talking about their illnesses, medications and how ham radio is going to hell just like the currnet OT's like us are already doing on "our repeaters". Did they accidently break into your weekly hemorrhoid net?
Give them 20 to 30 years and they'll be just like you, another grumpy old idiot. Me, I'm still a kid at heart. I welcome all newcomers as long as they're friendly with eager and well meant intentions.
73 de
The eHam Guest
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by TIMOTHIUS on July 11, 2004
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I am a new ham. I often read and hear comments about how bad the new ops are and how the standards to become a ham are too low. It seems to me that there is much more to supporting new hams than just holding study sessions and and license prep courses.
If you, or your club just held these types of test prep and didn't include proper and accepted operating procedures, then I think that you deserve some of the blame too.
Perhaps the testing standards are too low? I am glad it is at the level it is. I am not particularly bright, I have wanted to be a ham for years but have no desire what-so-ever to communicate with code. I don't use 10 codes on the air and generally don't like the CB band either. I am sure not a snob about my license stature either. So if you want better ops then you had better help them with more info than that needed to pass the test!
Regards
Tim, KE5BHF
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N9XT on July 11, 2004
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For starters, CBers say 73's; real hams say 73. Real hams also don't hide behind phoney names or handles like CBers do. If you are going to post or Elmer use your call!
N9XT
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AD5FD on July 11, 2004
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its your job now to SHOW how to use the repeaters etc. best resource is the arrl repeater directory. there is a page or two on repeater etiquite
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N5XM on July 11, 2004
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That's one big reason I upgraded for HF as soon as I was able. That's where the real fun is anyway. You can't blame it entirely on the fact that it's so easy to get a ticket. People becomes as skilled or as unskilled as they want to become. People that respect themselves and others don't act that way, do they? Make it a closed repeater and institute some rules that must be followed. Good luck, as repeater wars are harder to solve than the problems in the Middle East.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K2WH on July 11, 2004
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Too bad you can't just "Fire" an amateur. Get outta here kid, ya bother me!
K2WH
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N6AYJ on July 11, 2004
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IMHO, repeater owners are now just reaping what they have sown. For years they have been on their power trips, played games with repeater users, jerked them around, refused to talk to them and been unfriendly and insulting and tried to run them off the frequency, while Riley Hollywood gave the repeater owners a monopoly on the frequency. Finally someone is standing up to the repeater owners. More power to them! Repeaters are an abomination, and the Commission has gone 'way overboard in favoring repeaters over individual stations. Before Riley Hollingsworth deliberately misinterpreted it, Part 97 treated repeaters and individual stations the same. Riley Hollywood has been a disaster for ham radio.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W4LGH on July 11, 2004
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You just have to love it, comments like, "There will be those on this thread that will say that these types just need to be elmered.", "Cut them some slack", "Show them how to use the repeater". The REAL truth of the matter is, YOU CAN'T HELP SOMEONE WHO WON'T HELP THEMSELVES!
If in fact we NEED new people to keep the HOBBY alive, then we need to FIND people who have a REAL interest in the HOBBY, and NOT just anyone off the street!
If you lower the standards to get into the HOBBY, you will ONLY get people who have LOWER standards. I am NOT picking on anyone, but just stating a FACT of NATURE.
73 de W4LGH
www.w4lgh.com
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by KG6AMW on July 11, 2004
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Another so called article that is best described as a rant. Unfortunately all it does is promote negativity and conveys little in the way of education. Quote, "The local two-meter repeater has some of the worse operators now that I have ever seen. No order at all, and for the most part it has turned into another CB world." What does this mean? What condition was it in before the class? Were specific members in class now on the repeater causing problems? Do you have a list of the trouble makers with their call signs and when they were licensed?
KG6AMW
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Whine some more.........
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by K1CJS on July 11, 2004
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I am forced to agree with the posters that state YOU have the responsibility to rein-in these 'CBers'. If they don't take kindly to polite correction, keep at them until they do.
Control operators for the repeater also have the responsibility to 'make the machine unavailable' to rule breakers as well. The trustees for our organization have named a few control operators and have given them the power to shut down the machine if any shenanigans start and or keep going, whether by newbies or other operators.
There was one new operator (on our machine) who continually disregarded requests to stop with his 'jargon', he'd say "sorry, I forgot" then a few minutes later go right back to his old habits. Finally, the repeater was shut off when he would appear on it. It was turned on a few minutes later and the CO would say something like "Lets watch our jargon shall we? It doesn't belong on this machine."
He got the message real quick after a few of those episodes and is one of the better operators on the machine today--he ALWAYS watches what he says!
Licensing instructors and control operators have the responsibility to EDUCATE newcomers--and trustees have the last resort option of banning operators who don't abide by the rules and guidelines of the club. Those people should have the backbone to enforce the rules of the organization, or they should be replaced by members who do.
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RE: Whine some more.........
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by KA5N on July 11, 2004
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Current licensing standards are like the old joke. "I'm going to open a nice club and charge 10 cents to keep the riffraff out."
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N5LB on July 11, 2004
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Ham radio has always had a percentage of Lids, and always will. But I think that much of what we hear on 2m, or 80m is a reflection of the general decline in consideration and politeness affecting life in America. Unfortunately for our American life, and ham radio, the percentage growth in ill mannered, ill tempered and inconsiderate people is increasing.
It is not about age, race, or politics. It may have something to do with education, but I suspect the link is weak. It is about who we have become as a people. Why would we expect that ham radio to be demographically dissimilar to the whole country?
If we want ham radio operations to be different then its only ham radio operators who can affect change. Riley can shut down the eggregious, intercontinental, idiots, but for the most part its up to us to maintain order on our bands and our repeaters.
I was one of several operators of a local repeater ~25 years ago. We had problems then with people who had passed the more stringent exams. Granted there weren't as many, percentage wise, but their behavior was sufficient to result in the shutdown and dismantlement of the repeater.
So, the behavior that is being reported isn't new, or caused directly by the difficulty in obtaining a license. I doubt that such activities will ever be expunged.
Sometimes "pulling the plug" is the only alternative.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 11, 2004
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QUOTE:
Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
by N5XM on July 11, 2004
That's one big reason I upgraded for HF as soon as I was able. That's where the real fun is anyway. You can't blame it entirely on the fact that it's so easy to get a ticket. People becomes as skilled or as unskilled as they want to become. People that respect themselves and others don't act that way, do they? Make it a closed repeater and institute some rules that must be followed. Good luck, as repeater wars are harder to solve than the problems in the Middle East.
_____________________________________________________
While I myself prefer HF (my favorite band is 40 meters), to state that the real fun is in HF is really not true. There is so much more to VHF/UHF then the repeaters. There is skill, patience, knowledge, and experience required to work Texas from Michigan on 2 meters (or the other VHF bands) but it can be done. My OM gets more of a thrill out of working distant stations on VHF than he does on HF. There is the satellite work. There is SSB, AM, and CW besides FM.
Too many people simply become "repeater creatures" and never explore the possibilities of VHF/UHF.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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Ahhh, It's the baby boomers in action again, these post are always so entertaining...
The more comments I read from Amateur Radio Operators, the more disgusted I become. A Whole lot of you guys are WAYYY out there in left field. You have turned your hobby in to some kind of strange social thing complete with the food chain pecking order. Here's a tranlastion of most of these posts... "I'm a know it all Ham and anyone new or not doing things MY way is a CB'er"
-Have you appointed yourselves to the top of the Amateur Radio food chain because you are generally at the botton of the food chain in real life ?
-Are you just simply angry old men who feels life has passed you by ?
-In the 50's, 60's and 70's, Amateur radio operators had some respect and usefulness to our society. Here in 2004, this is generally not the case, does that frustrate you ?
-Are you just frustrated ?
-Are you mad that Silicon Valley put your tubes in to Museum status ?
-Will someone please tell me exactly who is using CB these days ? You guys talk about it as if it was 1977. I know the truckers have no interest in your hobby..are you afraid those strange guys on Channel 6 have invaded Amateur Radio ?? I don't know, they seem quite happy where they are. Is it still 1977 in your mind ?
I don't think anyone can match up to a baby boomer Radio operator. He's convinced himself he's a divine Ham without flaw. Every time I read this crap, It confirms my decision to find another hobby was correct.
Well, have fun being miserable I guess that's what being an old fart is all about...
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD4AC on July 11, 2004
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This story coming from someone who probably started out as a no-code tech. If these operators sound like CBers, then it sounds to me like your club didn't do a very good job of teaching them proper operating procedures. You got them ready for the test, but did you TEACH them good operating practice?
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W5HTW on July 11, 2004
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NX5W -- I have heard them! MOO, indeed! Makes ME think of a cow, not a ham.
More of the "cell phone honeys" bunch. More of the reasons those who are not interested in ham radio as a hobby, should not be 'inducted' into it as a utility or private phone system.The recruitment posters still say "Hey, look, you can keep in touch with the family."
The CB 10-stuff, and the cell phone spouses, have made me stop monitoring any repeater in the area. For emergencies I carry cell phones. I no longer monitor repeaters even in inclement weather on the off chance I may could help some traveler. Too much garbage to weed through.
It is becoming apparent there are two very different types of ham radio, one the VHF cell phone/CB bunch, and the other the HF bunch, and they rarely meet. Unfortunately the VHF/cell phone bunch is gradually moving into HF as well, and will probably do more so in coming months.
Ed
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG4YJR on July 11, 2004
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Some hams don't or never had a "honey" to talk to so therefore they get highly upset when someone is using the repeater to talk to their "honey".
We understand.
As previously mentioned, the priority of the repeater is to talk about when your bypass surgery or your next colonoscopy is coming up.
73
Dave
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by W9JCM on July 11, 2004
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as far as I am concerned 99% of FM/VHF/UHF repeater operations are the type the author describes. People saying 10-4 asking for a break to get into a convo. I had this break happen to me one day i said station with emergency traffic go ahead you have the freq. All i heard was duhh duuhh what? I informed them that saying break or break break means you need priority and have some sort of emergency traffic. Needless to say some other jerko days later complained to the repeater owner that I was to hard on the new guy. I was polite and just informed them of the mistake thats the only way they will remember it anyhow. Good luck out there in repeater land. This is why i sold my UHF repeater and echolink station. I will stick to HF and weak signal.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on July 11, 2004
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I see all the philosophers are out en masse. What came first? The chicken or the egg? What came first? The CBer or the LID? Blame it on society. The Devil made me do it. Elmering must be the answer! If elmering doesn't work, ten lashes with a wet 3-foot section of RG-8U.
If you think things are bad now, wait until the next restructuring. Wait until code testing is eliminated altogether and the tests are dumbed down further. This whole mess is a product of all the licensing dumb-downs since Novice Enhancement. This didn't go on when code was required even for a Tech ticket. Give out privs with CB-like requirements and you have CB-like hams doing CB-like things. Make 'em work. Make 'em learn code and make 'em learn some theory that you can sink your teeth into. Quit giving out licenses in Cracker Jack boxes.
Oh, JUSTASWLER, who said "Every time I read this crap, It confirms my decision to find another hobby was correct.", I'm glad you didn't let the door hit you on the way out. Your kind is neither needed or wanted. Authentic radio enthusiasts are what is needed in this hobby, not fair-weather fodderheads like you.
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WI2T on July 11, 2004
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This is why I stopped using 2 meter FM in 1998. After purchasing a new dual-band HT at Dayton and listening to a bunch of the crap on the repeater there, I decided to use the HT more as a scanner than a transceiver. I found the 2 Meter FM portion to be by and large a big waste of spectrum. But this is only my opinion.
But then again this isn't the only place this happens. I have finally found satisfaction with operating 100% QRP/CW.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC0KJF on July 11, 2004
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Seems to me the training was lacking after five weeks,
Repeater use and procedure wasn't taught ?????
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD4AC on July 11, 2004
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Guess I'm glad I don't live in your areas. I have yet to hear any problems down here in Tampa. Back in my hometown of San Diego, most repeaters sit there unused. The most popular repeaters, 147.030 and 146.730, don't seem to have problems with "CBers." As I drove cross country last year when I moved to Tampa, I hardly ever heard anyone on 2 meters... simplex or otherwise. I guess it's just your area.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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DUALGATEMOSFET
Oh and I'm glad too. Instead, I've decided to volunteer at the local Geriatric center and the State Mental Health Center on Weekends, it's just as entertaining as Amateur Radio. Hell, some of those guys at the State Hospital have a long wire set up and are operating on 80 M. They are HF guys, they get the rooms with TV's and a window (Walls still have padding though)
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG4PEQ on July 11, 2004
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Sounds like the class mentioned in the article was a bit of a failure. It is quite clear from the article that the mess on the repeater is a direct result of the training class. I have never, ever heard activity like folks are discussing in this thread. Perhaps we just have a better class of operator here in Richmond? Yeah, there's the occasional operator who is less professional than the rest of us, but even at its worst it is nowhere near what people are experiencing elsewhere.
I would look at who conducted the class discussed in this article, and either have THEM re-trained, or encourage them to stop teaching classes... having produced such a large group of miserable failures.
Steve
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4RAF on July 11, 2004
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What are you going to do when the FCC reduces license classes to just one single class?
Everyone wants to be "channel master" & define how others should behave. Just who are you to define anything to anyone?
Like "a face for radio", this is a case of "you operate radio better on a computer". I'd say don't bother with UHF.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N9AVY on July 11, 2004
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There were similar problems on the local repeater;then, some kind soul improved another local repeater by adding Echolink. Well, it attracted all the CB types like moths drawn to a flame. Now the local repeater is relatively free of them. A small group of them also tried using a closed 440 repeater which had 4-5 others linked with it until the owner ran them off. They responded by sending out emails to folks in area claiming the owner was "unfair".
To the idiot who suggested that truckers have no interest in ham radio: DUH ! You need to listen to the lower portion of 10 meters and hear all those truckers operating illegally. You might also go over to ARRL site and read the FCC enforcement letters where several trucking companies received 'nastygrams" from the FCC.
As far as the poor operation by new hams goes, some of them may actually learn by listening to proper procedures. We need to teach by example. Let's be careful not to label all the poor opeartors as "No-coders" as many "No-coders" have managed to upgrade and become decent hams.
jerry n9avy
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K6BBC on July 11, 2004
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This is either the result of poor training – which the author was involved in – or propaganda. In 30 years, the only difference I hear on two meters is no activity – and I live in the Los Angeles area! I suspect the this post is a figment of someone’s wishful thinking.
K6BBC
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on July 11, 2004
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JUSTASWLER, you only spend weekends there? When did the State Hospital authorize your release? Is that one of those work-release programs, where you weave baskets for a living and go back to the padded hotel on the weekends? Its a good thing you don't play with radios. Playing with RF can be as dangerous as playing with sharp objects or matches. You would need to have your doctor present when diddling with RF.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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VHF/UHF dead as a door nail here in the Denver area. Almost as dead as CB. But Hey, I'm sure it's because everyone is just waiting in line to get their Amateur Radio Ticket.
The 65 year old cleaning lady here said she's going to give up Sewing and take up Amateur Radio. I told her Ham Radio is real Dangerous just like sewing, So don't let her guard down. Damn that sewing needle bite...OUCH, that hurts !
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WC4SKY on July 11, 2004
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Ah yes, the teachers are never at fault when the students fail!
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8HDJ on July 11, 2004
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Same thing up here in Michigan. now their talking about giving them HF privledges? What ever happined to our great hobby?
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N9XT on July 11, 2004
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DUALGATEMOSFET & JUSTASWLER are you guys bootleggers or do you have a real call? Quit hiding behind your CB Handles... This is a Ham Radio forum.
73
N9XT
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by K6BBC on July 11, 2004
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Our great hobby has done a pretty good job destroying itself – we did not even need help from the great undesirable unwashed massed.
K6BBC
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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As Long as you remember it's a hobby, Nothing happened to it.
If it's an outlet for your Ego or lack of esteem, then the hobby is gone. If you are patiently awaiting for that big Emergency so you can save the world..the hobby is gone. Technology has left you in the dust. A Lot of things would have to be go haywire for the Amateur Radio Service to have any kind of major input to an emergency and as the number of Hams continue to dwindle, it becomes even more so. But hey, you guys don't want new people in your Hobby and as much as you think otherwise..very few people have any interest
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA2DTW on July 11, 2004
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Just another reason why no-code licenses are a bad idea. 5 WPM is very simple to achieve for those who are dedicated.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by OBSERVER11 on July 11, 2004
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YES! Move up to UHF!
Build a 222 MHZ repeater.
Build a 902 MHz repeater.
When I was first licensed (1976), the locals even then called 2m "FM CB"... nothing has changed.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W1TXT on July 11, 2004
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So, let me get this straight...Your group provided the training and now you're stuck with a bunch of bad operators? Hmmmmmmmmm.
Come on, folks...give them a chance!
Regards,
Tom, W1TXT
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by K0EWS on July 11, 2004
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This has sure been an interesting read. All of us come from different places, and we must remember that not all of our situations are alike. We need to gain someone else's perspective and quit looking though our model of the world. You see, when W5HTW talks about his repeater being so bad that he doesn't use it anymore, I can't understand that. I've never heard it. I'm not about to offer up solutions to a problem I don't understand. In my area, there isn't enough repeater activity, they sit quiet. Lately, I've heard some younger hams use it, including a 20 year old, and a 12 year old, and their operating skills are outstanding. As a matter of fact, the 20 year old wrote an outstanding letter to the editor in a recent QST magazine. Not all new blood we get in ham radio is bad. As a matter of fact, most of it is good. To throw a blanket accusation on all new hams because of a few bad apples makes no sense. I don't think it's lack of training, education, licensing standards or any other thing. My minister hit it on the head this morning. We've become a very selfish society. Some new operator comes over from CB, and he's using profanity, bad operating, is rude, etc. That's not the fault of new hams, the ARRL, the FCC or anyone, it's the operators' fault. The seasoned ham tries to "help" him out, and gets told where to shove it. The seasoned operator gives up in disgust and turns his rig off.
Like I said, I have never heard this, much less dealt with this, but if this happened in my classroom with bad behavior, the most effective tool in my bag is isolation. Negative attention to some of these clowns is better than no attention; same logic for folks who troll on the internet. What I do is outnumber that bad behavior with good behavior on all sides. If I have one bad apple, I surround him with 5 or 6 good ones, and unless he goes totally over the line, he gets ignored for bad behavior. If I knew more about the original post, it would be helpful. Is the majority of all activity on the band these guys? What happened to the other ops? I wonder if these guys would act this way if they were in the minority, and were ignored virutally every time they got on the air? Like I said, I have no solutions, as I've never dealt with it, but I find it disturbing that we blame ARRL, the FCC, lack of Elmering, etc. for the actions of a few bad apples. They are the way they are because they have made a selfish decision to do what they want, regardless of how it was done, whether or not it's in good taste, correct, or anything else. The minister this morning used a quote that said "All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing." (Something like that) If the bad apples scare the good ops off the repeater, they've "won." If you can't Elmer them, outnumber them.
Just my very humble, albeit long winded 2 cents. 73 everyone.
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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RE: W6VZV - thank you. I am a no-code tech and I do not exemplify those that do not honor ham radio. I do not use CB language nor do I discuss personal stuff with my husband over the air. I got my license because we are often jeeping in the rubicon and cell phones do not work out there. He's a fire captain so he's quite adept at radio language (he's also a ham). He wanted me to be able to communicate on radio especially in emergencies. Not everyone who earns the said "dummied-down" tech license abuses its privledges. If I earned a "dumied-down" license, it wasn't my rules I followed; the rules I studied (and I did study hard) were those of the FCC as presented by the ARRL. I want to learn CW for a general class license but for now I am quite proud of the license I have. As for repeater abuse, I hear generals and extras being equally as abusive; it all depends on the individual.
Thank you for your personal support of us "southern California techs"!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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...and to KE4QDC: I'm a teacher, a real one. My students' behaviors are a reflection of me. I model what I expect. Enough said there. If the repeater you use is that abused, build your own (I am) and make it a closed repeater. This will ensure that you have control and that only your friends can use it. Problem solved.
73s!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K0RFD on July 11, 2004
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KG6TEW -- you're exactly right. You didn't make the rules, but you DID follow them.
Funny thing is, I can't find anyplace on my own license where it says "Extra Lite" either.
The FCC sets the standards, all we have to do is meet them and be the best ops we can once we get our tickets. If somebody's having problems with somebody else, that is no reflection whatsoever on either you or me. Then again, if they're ALWAYS having problems with people, maybe it's not the other people who are the problem.
This whole snobbery thing would go away if the FCC would implement mandatory retesting for license renewals. Eventually, we all would have passed the same exam, nobody would have anything to gripe about.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KF2VA on July 11, 2004
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While it is easy to label "CBr's" and question what got taught, my opinion is that we simply need to be careful how we conduct the business of Amateur Radio. Trying to openly recruit new members may very well open the door to numbers that cannot be managed. I'm not implying that we should "select" who we want to be in the hobby, but I am suggesting that class activity and size needs to done in a manner where we can teach proper procedures and etiquette to numbers that are small enough to manage an outcome of good operators.
Doing that through a club is ideal and it gives the new people a chance to see what Ham Radio is all about. Likewise, it gives the club an opportunity to know the prospective Ham. Once the license is granted, the club can contact the individual and help them along where need be. This seems to work very well in our area. We occasionally get a "lid", but in most cases, it is a lack of experience and not an intentional problem. It doesn't take long to bring a new Ham into the fold.
I'm sort of against classes where the main objective is to get the candidate to pass the test. Obviously, most of you think the test is too easy and frankly it isn't worth the argument, one way or the other. But the class objective should be to make a good Ham Radio Operator. Yes, we want them to pass the "test"; but foremost, we want the candidate to "join" the hobby and be a credit to it. That means respect, procedure, rules, and understanding of the hobby. Both its technicalities and its traditions.
Above all, I think that scheduling and instructing Ham Radio classes is a club activity and I think the VE team needs to be the "checks and balance" of that activity. A VE should NOT be the prime participant in the teaching of such classes. It risks your reputation and your credidation as a VE.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA3RFE on July 11, 2004
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I would like to assume that people who're not following standard amateur practice are doing so out of ignorence and not from any evil desire to play CB on ham freqencies. When such stuff is going on, someone needs to gently and in a friendly manner take this new ops under their wing and teach them how it's done. I don't know if any educational courses put any emphasis on proper amatuer practice, but the Tech manual doesn't seem to put much of in there.
I didn't know any hams when I got my Novice license but I found a ham club and joined it and then I had dozens of Elmers willing to guide me around. And I WANTED to learn more. I dearly wanted to do phone, and after I tried a number of times, I had to give up. I have a hearing disabilty that turns electronic voice completely unintelgble to me. So I'm stuck with morse and the digital modes. I have NO idea what the local protocol is on the repeaters and if by some chance miracle I found a way to do phone I'd be a rank beginner and need an elmer.
I'm ill today and rambling a bit but my point is when there's someone on the repeater not doing ham things correctly, try to reach out and educate them.
73, Pete KA3RFE
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AL2I on July 11, 2004
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I am sorry to see that the old Novice class license is gone. It was a great way for a kid to get into the hobby and learn about radio. My first license was a Novice Class, and I was able to operate (CW only) on a couple of frequencies in the 40 and 15 meter bands. If somebody didn't like my operating practices, they could simply QSY away from me: I only had 2 crystals, and that was when a Novice on HF had to use crystal control!
It is pretty hard to irritate anyone with your bad operating practice when you are stuck at limited power in a limited portion of the band with CW only. The license expired after a couple of years, so there was an automatic purging of the less dedicated.
The trouble with the stuff smaller than 10 meters is that the entire spectrum is available instantly to any OP who can drill for and pass a simple multiple choice test with the answers given beforehand. I always wonder about the wisdom of "fixing" things that are not broken, and this applies to the changes in the old licensing system, which worked well to make Hams a great source of radio talent, and a great fraternity.
73,
Dave
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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For what it's worth (likely it is worth little to most of you), truckers and the like aren't the only ones who use the numeric 10s code to communicate on radio; many of the emergency services do as well, particulary the police and highway patrol. Many of these guys and gals are hams and sometimes they "erroniously" cross their career radio language over to ham. I know this isn't always the case for the people using the 10s code, nor do all emergency service providers with ham licenses use the 10s code on ham radio. I am merely suggesting it isn't limited to CBers and those who use it on ham bands for whatever reason. In this respect, the 10s code doesn't seem so unacceptable (in the case of emergency services, it is a requirement). As Pete said, gently remind them, and in a friendly way, that the numeric 10's code is not appropriate ham language.
These arguements are starting to sound like the one several months ago about a dummied-down general class license. It seems to me that Ferrell's troubles are with a local open repeater; as I mentioned earlier, there is a simple solution to his problem - build his own if he is that troubled by someone's else's repeater.
again, 73s!
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WB8VGE on July 11, 2004
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Whoa!
When I got interested in ham radio, I sought out a local ham and then a local club for the ticket I truely wanted.
If someone is interested in any hobby, no matter if it is ham radio or kit flying, those with a true desire to join the group will seek it out. They will become the next leaders of the hobby.
on the other hand, if you open the doors and grab anything that can stand under their own power, then that's what you get.
When the movie "frequency" was playing, our local radio club set up outside the movie house getting people to sign up for classes. They would take anyone! They ran a dog and pony show telling everyone about making free phone calls, (via the autopatch) and talking to your friends for free.
Guess what we got?
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by DAILYREGULARITY on July 11, 2004
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I hate to see this happen to amateur radio and to local repeaters in particular. In the upper part of SC, for years a ditzy female operator has given the apperance of trying to set a new world's record for the number of repeaters either kicked off of or at least "persona-non-grata" on by a ham. She came in as a no-code Tech and will never upgrade as it is a miracle that she passed the written exam for that license. She has made a good living, preying on male hams (usually married and frequently older than herself) by telling pitiful tales of how "lonely" she is and how so many people treat her badly for no reason at all. In time, these male operators feel sorry for her and give her money, loan her radio equipment, firearms, you name it, which she seems to be in need of. She usually manages to keep several hams on the stringer at one time and when one eventually figures out what her game is (some never do) and asks for anything loaned to her back, she just brushes them off and they never see their property again. When on the air with multiple victims at once, she'll play a little game and ask what they look like, what they do for a living, what kind of car they drive, etc, knowing the answer all along but playing "cute" like she doesn't know the answer or the ham. As many of her victims are married, of course, she usually doesn't get much on the air flak about what she is doing from her victims for fear of discovery. Seems like there is always a new crop of victims in line and a new repeater somewhere for her to hang out on. Hopefully, one day, word will get out wide and far enough and she will permanently have to pull the plug on her rig. Meanwhile, everyone listening will be "entertained" by her antics and the dopey puppy love banter between some of her dumber victims and herself while on the air.
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by KE4PJW on July 11, 2004
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>>>For starters, CBers say 73's; real hams say 73.
Real hams also don't hide behind phoney names or
handles like CBers do. If you are going to post or
Elmer use your call!
N9XT <<<<
Are you saying that "The Old Man", Hiram Percy Maxim, W1AW was a CBer because he used a phony name AND 73's??
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by STARTING2WONDER on July 11, 2004
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i am currently in training to get my tech licence but i am begining to wonder if it will all be worth it...someone convince me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WO8USA on July 11, 2004
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Its the people, not the license. I don't think a ham radio class will change people's long-term attitudes about respecting property or rights of others. The repeater is just a reflection of their personal attitudes and values.
Chris WO8USA
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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Dailyregularity: Hmmm, this is ONE person out of HOW many licenses across the United States? I truly don't think you believe this example validates the issue, do you? These men you speak of aren't victims, they invite and allow this to happen - especially if they are married. They aren't too clever are they? Your example is insulting to the moral characters of women and men alike - ham radio aside. Nothing personal though.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by STARTING2WONDER on July 11, 2004
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i am so sick and tired of all the 'cb' games people play..i just want to get away from the bullsh*t and have real conversation. i figured that after 30 years of 'cb' i could just be a ham now and forget the past. so do you think that i will never change?? i beg to differ. i think that the hams need to bring back those 'seek and distroy' games of the past for those whom 'dis the priviledge of ham and clean house!!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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Ooops! I said 73's and I don't even know CB lango or the 10's system. Shame on me. My mistake, 73.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 11, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
...
"I am a no-code tech and I do not exemplify those that do not honor ham radio. I do not use CB language "
Thank you for respecting our traditions. Some do not.
" nor do I discuss personal stuff with my husband over the air. I got my license because we are often jeeping in the rubicon and cell phones do not work out there. "
Fine business. As time goes by, don't be surprised if you find more ways to enjoy ham radio.
"He's a fire captain so he's quite adept at radio language (he's also a ham). He wanted me to be able to communicate on radio especially in emergencies. Not everyone who earns the said "dummied-down" tech license abuses its privledges. If I earned a "dumied-down" license, it wasn't my rules I followed; the rules I studied (and I did study hard) were those of the FCC "
True.
" as presented by the ARRL. I want to learn CW for a general class license but for now I am quite proud of the license I have. "
As you should be. Congratulations and welcome!
" As for repeater abuse, I hear generals and extras being equally as abusive; it all depends on the individual. "
True.
"Thank you for your personal support of us "southern California techs"! "
From your profile here, and your webpage, I see you are a teacher.
First, I wish to thank you.
You deal with the future of our society. We need you and your colleagues, and your work.
I see you are a Chemistry teacher. Chemistry is related to electronics, isn't it? From a third of a century ago, even I manage to remember the term valence. :)
When you feel comfortable with it, would you consider doing all of us hams a huge favor? If your high school does not presently have a radio club for the students, would you consider it? Perhaps you could even rope in another teacher to get their license, and help.
Many of us lament that young people are not drawn to ham radio anymore. A person like yourself may be able to expose them to radio much better than some old fuddy-duddies like the rest of us. :) In other words, maybe you have an opportunity that most of us do not.
Most of us, at one time or another, and to different degrees, attempt some 'elmering'. In the days before the internet, this was all done face to face - very hands on. The best 'elmering' still is. But most of us do not have a professional background of knowing how to properly teach. You do.
If someone like yourself - respecting our traditions - brings young persons into ham radio, then it is likely that these new hams will acquire your good habits. Hopefully these new and good hams will be with us for a very long time. :)
And that is the huge favor to which I referred.
If this is not the right time, then perhaps you can just hang on to this idea for the future.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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When you get right down to it, 73 and all the "Q" codes are just as silly as the 10 codes. It's just that You think they are pertinent as they are part of your hobby. Show these to someone on the outside, they'd probably say "What in the hell, that's kind of stupid". So we're right back to snobbery, big ego's and the Radio Shack Employee mentality.
By the way, What makes these little guys at Radio Shack think they are hot stuff ? Is this the Ham Radio Opertor breeding ground ? The way some of you guys talk, you think you are involved in Orbital planning for the space shuttle. It's radio, right ? It's not Rockets, not Quantum Physics. No atoms being split or anything like that.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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To WILLY: You flatter me. In fact I do teach electronics in chemistry (I teach an algebra-based advanced chemistry course). I even use the film "Frequency" to introduce the relationship between ham radio, sunspots, chemistry, quantum physics, electronics, propagation, etc. The kids like it because it is "real life stuff" though they think it is "really hard". We do all the math and I talk to them about ham radio, morse code, etc. I make an entire unit out of it, though it is merely an enhancement to the curriculum since the California State standards deal very little with quantum. I think there are only three of us "hams" at school out of perhaps 2000 students and over a hundred faculty. I will strongly consider your suggestion. Thanks!
Um, correctly written as 73,
Barb
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TCV on July 11, 2004
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I live here in Southern Ca., and we have our own problem with an unlicensed opperator, who countiously Jams the repeter and brodcasts recordings. As well he belives that for some reason he has the right to opperate on the ham bands, has been notified by the FCC., to quit, has spent time in prison for jaming police freq's, etc.......
I am a Tech and am always willing to learn from other Ham's with more experience, but I am sick and tired of hearing that it's all about the tech and their edicate.
I here just as much improper Ham Radio edicate out of the General, Advanced, & Extra class Opperators, and here is my bigest pet peave I here out of more Opperators than anything else "Break..Break" sound's like a CB opperator ha... and I am not hearing it from the Tech's all that much, mostly the General Class and above.
When I ask them about this , instead of an Intelectual conversation the replys are all the same for the most part " I've been doing this longer than you, and I have always done this and I am not about to change" this happens alot on and off repeaters to break in to a transmition/ QSO just to say Hi or check in to a net.
I must be misstaken I thought that this was the proper way to anounce an Emergancy, not to check in an net or just to say hi., I wait ever so patiently untill asked if there are any others who want to check in ALWAYS....
So before you point your finger at a tech, maybe just maybe take a good look at your self before you you start pointing other's faults, that is unless your PERFECT like alot of the others , just because you hold a General, Advanced or Extra Lic., dose not make you better than any one else.
73's Steven KG6TCV
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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To JUSTASWLER: um, yes, it is quantum physics as a matter of fact. Read my reply above yours. LOL.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TCV on July 11, 2004
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How funny I just left a comment, and what do I here a General Class Jamming the repeter because our local nut that thinks he's licensed is airing an pre recorded message , so am I to belive that if I hold a General Class Lic. or above thta two wrongs make a right?????????????????????????????????????????????
73's Steven KG6TCV
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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KG6TCV
LoL, I read your post after I posted mine....Oh well, two out of three ain't bad. Guess I should go back and take a Science refresher
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 11, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
...
"It seems to me that Ferrell's troubles are with a local open repeater; as I mentioned earlier, there is a simple solution to his problem - build his own if he is that troubled by someone's else's repeater. "
It might not be financially feasible to build one's own. There can be great difficulty in finding a suitable location for a repeater. Also, there may not be any available freq pairs available for coordination.
In other words, it is not just that easy. It would certainly be nice if it was.
by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
" Ooops! I said 73's and I don't even know CB lango or the 10's system. Shame on me. My mistake, "
I saw it. You said you are new though. :)
"
73. "
Again, thank you for your caring, and respecting the operating norms of the hams that came before you.
Best regards to you too.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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JUSTASWLER: I think you meant to respond to me, not KG6TCV. But the science of ham radio is very cool; the math rocks. I think people are losing sight of the real issue as started by Ferrell, even I have gone off on a tangent.
:) KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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WILLY, you are right, building a repeater IS expensive. BUt if someone is so completely tramatized by his local repeater, then he should find a group of buds to pitch in money for their own use their new repeater. I am building one, with the help of my husband, and I know the cost. But I am sure Ferrell has many freinds who'd be willing to pitch in to build their own closed repeater. This whole subject has been beat to death and the redundancy is quite clear.
LOL, I need a life...too much time off right now! :)
KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W5HTW on July 11, 2004
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<<by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004 !
When you get right down to it, 73 and all the "Q" codes are just as silly as the 10 codes. It's just that You think they are pertinent as they are part of your hobby. Show these to someone on the outside, they'd probably say "What in the hell, that's kind of stupid". So we're right back to snobbery, big ego's and the Radio Shack Employee mentality. >>
You really haven't any idea of the history of ham radio, do you? That's unfortunate, as it is a colorful history. Hams did not invent Q-codes. They come from international communications, commercial, military, government, etc. Hams use them because, at one time, we hams were considered to be a "trained pool of radio operators for use in national emergency," so the fact that our ham procedures mimicked those of the military meant we could do that with minimal training. Those days are admittedly gone, but the tradition is still a part of our history. It is indeed a part of our 'lingo' and, just as CBers are entitled to their language, we are entitled to ours. Any activity you follow, whether it is golf, or hot rod racing, or engine building, or flying, has its own 'lingo.'
It is sad that the history of our hobby is so invisible to the newcomers. They are missing much.
73
Ed
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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WILLY, you are right, building a repeater IS expensive. But if someone is so completely tramatized by his local repeater, then he should find a group of buds to pitch in money for their own use of their new repeater. I am building one, with the help of my husband, and I know the cost. But I am sure Ferrell has many friends who'd be willing to pitch in to build their own closed repeater. This whole subject has been beat to death and the redundancy is overwhelming.
LOL, I need a life...too much time off right now! :)
KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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Thanks Ed
As I was posting that message, I was wondering about the origin of Q codes and 10 codes. I learned something today...always a goal of mine.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 11, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
" I think people are losing sight of the real issue as started by Ferrell, even I have gone off on a tangent.
"
We have, somewhat.
Returning:
Perhaps here can be found a bit of what is needed around these so afflicted repeaters:
http://www.cebik.com/ugger.html
http://www.natradioco.com/rdey/whrsl.htm
The Wouff-Hong ! The ham radio 'Board of Education'!
>g<
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 11, 2004
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RE: WILLY; OK, the lumbar vertebrae attached to the Uggerumphs say it all. Lordy! Willy, you found the solution. You rock! LOL
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N2BR on July 11, 2004
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Well say what you want to about CB'ers there still a good bunch of them around and 95% of the ham ops came from the 11 meter band and hay i still hear many ham's on 11 meters today.And i talking about ham's thats been around for many years too.Nothing wrong with cb radio just some of the jurks behind the mic's.And same for amateur radio,Lots of good ham's out there but then you have the know it alls and the wanta-be's and then mix that with a amateur radio club what does that spell it SPELLS=CLICKS
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K0ZN on July 11, 2004
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This is scary, because this is EXACTLY what many, many people tried and tried to warn the ARRL "executives" about. It is NOT a code issue, it is a difficulty of entry issue. If Amateur Radio is to remain a DISCIPLINED, functional service then it must be made up of people who value and respect the hobby and the ONLY way you can achieve that is to make it truly challenging to obtain a license. "Dumbed down", "disposable" licenses will eventually kill Ham radio. We can only hope that the ARRL finally sees its mistake and reverses course before it is too late.
The ARRL makes all these pious noises about "help us save ham radio from BPL", but the fact is anyone with common sense knows that BPL IS more value to the public than some pointless, trash filled "hobby radio service" that the ARRL is heading us for.
If one were to tape some of the mindless trash that appears on some bands (75 meters and 2 meters in particular)and play it back before the FCC Commissioners, there is no way the ARRL could offset the damage with one of its "Big language, Dog and Pony shows".
K1ZZ of the ARRL had an editorial in QST not to long ago which basically amounted to a polite form of name calling to those who wanted to retain high standards and discipline in the hobby... he basically tried to paint these people as "old fashinoned" and "against progress". The ARRL either has an agenda or is in total denial about what goes on in the world of Amateur Radio.
There is simply no way this hobby is going to survive long term if the ARRL continues trolling for warm bodies that like to talk into a microphone.
Although BPL is a problem for Amateur Radio it is NOT the most serious threat to Amateur Radio. Degrading of licensing and operator standards IS.
73, K0ZN
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TCV on July 11, 2004
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and now getting even more off track Q codes, I will defently have to do more research , for some strange reason I was under the Impression that they came about in the use of early morse code to shorten their QSO's hi hi 73's CQ CQ etc...............
what were we talking about Ya Yes Jamers, Proper radio Edicate, well back to the books.
Stecen KG6TCV
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N7UQA on July 11, 2004
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I am a control operator of our local repeater. If I hear anything like what I'm reading here I just shut the damn thing OFF!!! I am under NO obligation to let poor/unlicensed operators to use the repeater no matter who it inconveniences. My advice to the control operator is to SHUT THE THING OFF!! As long as the poor operation continues things will get worse.
Craig - N7UQA
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KB2RJH on July 11, 2004
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Are you sure it's the lower class hams as you upper class snobs call them what are some of the calls that are doing it ? this is just another CB crying forum nothing more.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 11, 2004
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It's the hot shot, know it all baby boomers. These guys are quite predictable. The old timers are quite polite and helpful. It's the guys in their 50's-early 60's who take themselves WAY too seriously and have convinced themselves the world revolves around them. They are the same with their computers...see 'em in Comp USA, circuit city all the time. Everyone knows they are losers except for themselves
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AC5CH on July 11, 2004
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Man, you guys shure like to b*tch.... You all should be glad someone is actually USING your repeaters. A majority of the "politically incorrect" "CB Hams" will outlive most of you, and hopefully bring an atmosphere of acceptance and fraternity back to ham radio. You guys are pathetic...
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by DAILYREGULARITY on July 11, 2004
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KG6TEW, sorry if I came through the wrong way but I do believe my example is valid with respect to the original post and many others in this thread. I do not understand your assertion that my example is insulting to all male and female hams. Do I believe that this woman's behavior is typical of all or even most female hams? Absolutely not!!!! Do I believe that all no-code Techs are idiots? Again, the answer is a solid NO! Some of the most exemplary ops I know are no-code Techs. This one female ham (won't call her a YL or XYL as she is no "lady") is, however, a shining example of how slightly higher standards or even a 5wpm code test would have screened a very bad apple out and the same can be said for at least a few of her more faithful on-the-air cast of admirers and fools. They just lack the brain fluid to have gone the extra mile with extra testing. She almost literally has trouble figuring out which end of the cord the mic is on! As it is, by luck or whatever, they squeezed in and now we're stuck with them. I imagine this has happened in various areas all over the country. Also, a lot of the (very much the majority) good XYL's and Yl's in the area have been responsible for her eviction from various repeaters and persona-non-grata status on many more. No matter how much you trust him, would you really want your husband engaging in nightly QSO's with someone like this, especially when she starts her little telephone contacts one on one like she usually does with a new victim, especially with her skill at gaining sympathy with her "I'm so lonely" and "people are so mean to me for no reason" stories? I imagine not. Right or wrong, I imagine that at least around half of all men can and do have weak moments and can be lured into some foolish deeds by a woman skilled in such things. All that being said, congratulations on your entry into the hobby (or service if you prefer) and keep up the good work! 73, DR
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by V73NS on July 11, 2004
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Remember the good old days when the Entry Level licence required 5 WPM code, a knowledge of both operating and technical things and you had to upgrade to get Voice?
When you dropped the "N" out of your call people congratulated you.
The no-code folks think it was the dark ages, but at least then you knew that the person on the other end was a skilled ham and valued the PRIVILEGES their efforts gained them. They are not rights.
2 Meters is indeed a zoo. You'll see op's running FM simplex in the SSB/CW and Satellite sub-bands. They simply DO NOT CARE.
When I was living in the states we had a couple truck drivers that were new Tech's. They openly were on the air talking about who needed to pick up what trailer etc... totally business related. When they were warned about it, they moved to a different machine and/or to "freeband" channels and kept doing it.
If you care about the ham bands, become an Official Observer. Become part of the solution!
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Are standardized engineering practices important t
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by W3DCG on July 11, 2004
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Are standardized engineering practices important to Amateur radio?
Are standardized communication practices important?
Are Standards important.
Once Upon A Time... 5wpm was required for Any/All ham licenses.
Let us not turn this into a CW flame war, but when- 5wpm was required for ANY entry to ham radio, was the CB on 2m FM ever really an issue? Say, 25 years ago.
I guess I'm just a 37 year OLD fart or something, but I bet those that were around when baseline standards where more difficult, would say- no, back then operating standards on all frequencies were tighter. Rarely was 73s spoken, if it was, it was spoken by the minority, and so correcting that person, even in the form of ribbing, was an automatic response.
But, what is wrong with people talking jargon. It is a free country.
My children are exposed to improper grammar, on a daily basis, in many places. We kindly correct them every single time. Some parents may not mind, or possibly feel some sense of pride, in purposefully modifying English, via slang- Ebonics, jive, pidgin, or whatever. And that is fine, too. We are all free to make choices. Parents happen to be the most influential people in children's lives, for those children fortunate enough to have loving parents. How a parent elects to raise their children is their prerogative.
Perhaps a parallel should be drawn, modeling an Elmer/VEC to new ham(s) relationship somewhat after a Parent to Child relationship.
The responsibility of a VEC may well be greater than only what is imposed by the FCC.
Perhaps many of the problems plaguing the world today, could be directly and indirectly traced, to a disintegrating Parent Child relationship. Used to be Mom was always at home, home schooling could have been an option then, if educational opportunities to be had publicly were inadequate to a parents' standards. Now, the most common demographic of a household has mom having to work full time, as well as dad, simply to make ends meet. There is scarcely time left at the end of the day. The result, complete strangers, and other people are raising our children. The result of this one aspect to life alone, can be seen in deteriorating quality of life, at all levels of society, manifesting higher crime, higher illiteracy, lower basic skills test scores in our schools, weakened educational standards, an increase in the amount of people that have become a burden to society, perhaps through no fault of their own, they were simply born, something over which they had no control. It is the "butterfly effect" of chaos theory, realized, and it all started at home. More people burdening society, more prisons, prisons overflow, more tax dollars required to band-aid the problem, until at some point the chasm between rich and poor is huge, next the flashpoint, where the country we know and love is taken over by chaos, lawlessness, insanity. On the way to this saturation point, life gets harder on all classes, but particularly the middle class. Mom and Dad have to get two jobs to make up the difference, the home suffers, the children suffer for it, they grow up, their potential contributions have lessened, the problem worsens. It is happening in not one home, but it is happening in many homes, perhaps in most homes.
What does this have to do with CB on 2m repeaters?
Evidently it has nothing to do with it, while at the same time, absolutely everything, to do with it.
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RE: Are standardized engineering practices importa
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by NL7W on July 11, 2004
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All this ranting and raving really shows how deeply concerned some hams are. Obviously, the hobby/service, as well as our society, is changing. This is inevitable. I suggest we (each one of us) decide how, in our own special way, to change amateur radio for the better.
What say?
NL7W
Palmer, Alaska
*** where it is 81 deg F and sunny! ***
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W3RAZ on July 11, 2004
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Here's my problem with these types of operators (The one who wrote the article, not the ones he is talking about)...
First, they are elitist. I have news for you....who WANTS too talk to someone who acts like they are the 2m cop? If you want to help the operators, operate the best as you can and make suggestions to the new ops (NOT ON AIR!). Also, remember....you were once new at this as well. Try not to contribute to the problem buy acting like a repeater cop.
Second, is what they are doing just bad operating or is it against FCC Rules otherwise? If not, then they are operating within the rules. You can't really complain about much except possible using 10 codes to obscure meaning, but I don't think that's too bad of a thing. Are they using terms like destinated, Q signals or other just horrible english? My answer to that is SO WHAT! At least they are USING the repeater other then letting it sit idle. As my pastor would say, sometimes you must go where it is the darkest......that means you need to have you and other friends use the repeater when you can and use good procedure. Pass it directly from one station to another in a round robin and don't use works like break unless it is an emergency. These guys need to be SHOWN an example. Then maybe they will change their ways. I know some folks never change, but I would rather have a operator operating within FCC rules and someone to talk to then to not have anyone to talk to.
To the folks complaining about couples use the patch or talking to each other over the repeater (if they are both licensed, over the patchif they are not)...this is legal. If you don't like it, too bad. Maybe you should take your elite attitude and go away.....far away.
Lastly, if you are listening to the machine and you hear someone throw out their call and have the time to talk, TALK! If you don't have time for a extened QSO, at least say hi. That's my motto. I remember back in the 80's listening to the scanner and hearing all kinds of neat stuff with my grandpa. That time is gone. Be a good ham neighbor and talk on your machine when you can. HF bands shutdown? Fire that 706 back to 2m. Throw out your call. We want to talk.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N6HVP on July 11, 2004
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Actually, it's the idiots, excuse me, the FB guys here that name call in a topic who make the hobby a garbage pail. Most operators would appreciate a constructive comment or worthwhile advise, just like on-air, instead of deadbeat comments like those found above.
If you're that disgrunted about yourself then move on and let the rest of us enjoy the magic we discovered long ago.
Mike-
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 11, 2004
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KE5BHF Tim, i believe you have hit the nail on the head. Thats what happened here locally. An individual put on a class and taught them the correct answers to the questions. They passed the test but knew nothing about radio other than what they had done on cb for 20 years. Some of us also have found that there are some of these folks that just do not want to be elmered. Never think that some of these comments about new upgrades or tech's are directed at you. Have a good time on the bands and just steer clear of the trouble makers. There's about as many older hams doing bad stuff as there are new folks in my opinion.
73
John WR8D
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 11, 2004
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Guys i'm terribly sorry, and i hate to stir it, but i think Ferrell has presented a serious problem that is "ongoing". Nothing in the way he presented his thoughts led me to believe he was as some of you say an elitist or a snob. This thread is devolving into the typicial troll-rama. If the truth were know i'd say some of you raising all the fuss are the very ones many of us have spoken out against. You don't fit in. Your attitudes here are probably reflected in your operating practices on the bands. Ah yes the dreaded elitist snob chickenband ham. Did i get that all in there ok? Well anyway he has shown himself to us here as well as on the air.
It just needed to be said!
John WR8D
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K3ZE on July 11, 2004
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You should have been more specific. What factors make it a "zoo"? Folks who use CB techniques on the Amateur Radio bands do so because they may not be familiar with the proper operating procedures. A little coaching may solve your problems, if you do it in a gentlemanly manner.
It sounds a little like you guys have the same problem with "Ham101" that we do. That is, not spending enough time on proper operating procedures and on the air etiquette. It's s pretTy easy hole to fall into when prepping people to take the exam and having to cram all the theory, rules & regulations, etc., into five or six short weeks.
Give them the benefit of the doubt first. Then, if they are still indeed breaking the rules, warn them and/or tell them to go elsewhere. If they cause intential interference or use improper labguage, etc., a letter to the FCC would be the next step.
Good luck
73 Al K3ZE
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC8RAK on July 11, 2004
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Hello.
I'm a No Code Tech. I have enjoyed the hobby for about 3 yrs. I have done a lot of public service events with the local club. I get on HF once in awhile at FD or when the club has a event's station. I enjoy those time's on HF but i will wait to upgrade when the code is no longer a requirement.I'll learn the theory then. Does making you learn morse code,make you smarter nope? I have heard a lot of complaints of people who have there hf ticket and talk like there on cb. Just because you learned morse doesnt make you a good operator. Maybe the FCC sould make everyone retest every 10 year's. I bet a lot could not do it. How many have learned cw & theory for the test but now couldnt do it for a test and pass? How about making everyone have to know how to use APRS or PSK and the other digital modes also a long with CW? Morse code is just a mode of communication. Give it a break. It doesnt make you a good operator. If i have to learn morse then you old timers need to learn the digital stuff or stop grabing. There has been some upset people about our local rptr and a few who chat everyday during drive time. The one who is doing most of the complaints is more then likely upset because he and his wife cant act like its there private rptr.
John KC8RAK
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6IP on July 11, 2004
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Dayam, what a rod-up-the-wazoo fest. I ain't seen this many stupid stereotypes in one place since I watched "Intolerance".
First off, if you've got a problem on the local repeater, start by assuming there was something wrong with the way you taught the class. That way, you'll be able to figure out what to say to the people who are "misbehaving" when you try to gently remind them of what's considered SOP on the repeater. You'll go a long way if you assume those people are "misbehaving" because they need more teaching, not because of some spiteful will.
Secondly, make sure they *are* misbehaving. Nothing you mentioned is wrong; it's just not suiting your taste. Your individual idea of tasteful operating does *NOT* constitute "standard practice". (For instance, the use of 'break' as an indication of emergency is *NOT* universally recognized.)
Thirdly, try treating people as individuals, rather that stereotypes. Some of the best HF operators I know are 18 wheelers. How many of you have managed DXCC while mobile?
Finally, it's a hobby, people. You're in it for the pleasure you get out of it. So do what you enjoy, and let the others figure out for themselves what they enjoy.
If it ain't against the regs, it's fine business.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by RADIO123US on July 11, 2004
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KC8RAK said "If i have to learn morse then you old timers need to learn the digital stuff or stop grabing"
OK...that fine, I operate almost 100 percent digital modes, so bring on the test...I'll bet I could pass it easily....and I'm what you would consider an "old timer" !!
John, this thread isn't about code vs no code...there's more than enough threads on that subject.
What I see is alot of folks here bashing us "old timers" as elitists..my question is why ?? I treat EVERYONE on the air respectfully, and I don't care if they are a Tech or an Extra. John , you made the following statement: "i will wait to upgrade when the code is no longer a requirement". This tells me a little about your attitude. Do you somehow feel that the "old timer's" attitudes are preventing you from upgrading ? You CAN upgrade anytime you wish, and none of us old timers are preventing you from doing it...so don't bash us for YOUR problem....
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WB4QNG on July 11, 2004
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I agree with some of the other guys. First if you had them in class something went wrong. Second you complain about how the repeaters are being used at least they are bein used. I can hit at least 15 repeaters from my house. This is with a 5/8 wave in my attic. You can go hours at a time without hearing anything but the repeaters ID. Don't hear much CB talk on any of them. You do hear some of the honey bunches and they are used like cell phones. No big deal to me. At least they are being used.
Terry
WB4QNG
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC9EQC on July 11, 2004
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Here in my area there are several very good repeaters, yet there is very very little activity on them. Most of the traffic is QSO's to and from work. I am a new ham, I got my Tech. ticket a year ago and 3 months later upgraded to Gen. I must say I was disapoinited with the 2M activity around here. When I first got on HF I went to 80M and was astonished with some of the language and the way some hams conducted themselves, and many of these guys did pass the 13 and even 20 wpm cw exam.
I work in law enforcement and that is where the 10 codes belong, not on the repeaters. As far as the cb'rs, there is a little of that here, but for the most part it isn't as bad as the average evening on 80m.
One thing I don't understand is all the bickering back and forth, there are a lot of scanner and sw listeners out there and what kind of impression are they getting? A lot of those people are potential future hams, but do you think they will stay interested for very long when they hear us bicker about how much better an operator you are becauses you took the cw exam, wether it be 20, 13, or even 5 wpm. Lets just welcome them into the hobby, and not shun them because they are new hams.
73 de KC9EQC
Jon
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N4VOX on July 11, 2004
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you trained them, you tested them and now you gripe about them. sounds like your the problem. I notice that you didn't give any facts about what they are doing wrong, if anything. I do believe your right, you should turn in your VE credentials, in fact maybe your license.
Gill
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by OMNIPRESSIVE on July 11, 2004
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What makes anyone think these new operators want to be trained? You can elmer until you're blue in the face but if the new operator doesn't care, there's nothing more you can do.
Some people just don't give a damn and no ammount of elmering is going to change that.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by ANULLRETENTIVE on July 11, 2004
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Funny, they don't look zooish to me. As a matter of fact some of my best friends are zooish:-)
KE4QDC, as a side note, you wrote;
"Being the kind soles we are...."
Are you implying that you're a bunch of "heels" or did you mean to say "souls"?:-)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC9FUT on July 11, 2004
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This whole page of replies is really pretty funny if all you people who wrote in all the negative comments on new hams Cbers who have become hams Truckers make me want to throw up I'am a relatively mew ham no code tech i'am a cber have been since 1970 KJK 1046 paid 20.00 for my cb license back then and guess what I'am a trucker and have been for over 20 years.So I guess I'am put in a real situation because of some of you I don't have a chance of being a good ham OP with that kind of colorfull backround I allmost feel like a felon allready,First the trucker thats what I do for a living does that make me bad are all truckers bad people I don't think so,I'am a cber have to have one in my truck for communication purposes not all truckers are hams so if I need to get ahold of them I need the CB,I got my ham ticket because I love talking on the radio and to interesting people and friends I live in Wisconsin thank God we don't have no where near the problem here as some of you do in other parts of the country,as I read these comments it sure seems to me that some of you are just as much to blame as the people that you are crying about,people own repeaters but people don't own the airways themselves if,are you sure that all of these people you are talking about are all that bad or just not to your liking,another not fitting into your cliche group per say,the older hams around here have been nothing short of great in teaching me ane others ,the proper ways of doing things the correct way they welcome with open arms to there clubs events fox hunts breakfasts so on.I could only hope that all the hams that have been around the corner more than once would be as nice and considerate,Just a new hams 2-cents worth.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD4FUN on July 11, 2004
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Sounds like your a little jealous, Before you judge other hams, get licensed...I am active in A.R.E.S and SKYWARN, have been for almost seven years..I enjoy lending a helping hand when needed. Manned a few shelters in my time during Hurricanes, Im 42 years young. Quit blasting Hams....I dont blast SWLers, I kinda like listening outside the ham bands myself once in a while. Hope these words will add some stability to your unhappy existence.
Brian Gray KD4FUN
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by NA4IT on July 11, 2004
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Just the facts maam:
(1) I used to be a "trucker / CB'er.
(2) I am a ham radio operator (Amateur Extra).
(3) If you trained them and tested them, and you are not happy, don't blame them, look at your training program.
(4) Repeater trustees' licenses are on the line every time someone keys up a machine. He has to do what he has to do to stay legal.
(5) Take a trip with a trustee to a repeater on a mountain far, far away, to a concrete block building infested with snake, scorpions, and spiders of the venomous kind. And do it at 3:00AM. You will then understand what it takes to keep a repeater on the air.
(6) If you don't like what you hear, and you are not the trustee, turn the little knob that usually says volume quickly to the left (counter-clockwise). It WILL stop all your troubles.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by OMNIPRESSIVE on July 11, 2004
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Dear KC9FUT,
Your English is horrific. Why should anyone take your post seriously when you write like an illiterate?
Sincerly,
Omnipressive
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by DROLLTROLL on July 12, 2004
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Horrific indeed, but I hear the Guiness Book of World Records is considering KC9FUT's post for the world's longest run-on sentence.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 12, 2004
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We have a local guy on a 2m repeater. He's a good ole' boy, still a CB'er, and lapses into that service's idioms frequently. Do I berate him on the air? No.
Correcting someone on air is crass anyway.
But, like I said, he's a good fellow at heart, doesn't cuss or get out of line, etc.
Does it bother me? Somewhat. But hey, this area has nil repeater activity too, so just figure it will come with time.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K7LA on July 12, 2004
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I no longer act as a Volunteer Examiner for reasons discussed in this forum. It's no longer worth the destruction of this hobby.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by OBSERVER11 on July 12, 2004
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this sure is a fun topic!!
If anyone here follows qrz.com, maybe you will remember a comment made by an 8 lander with an extra call, that questioned "how many no code techs are really closet CBers"?. This comment got a lot going on qrz and the kids group on hamsexy.com.
This thread seems to bear out the idea that there are many no code techs that are still closet cb'ers.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W7FRS on July 12, 2004
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I'm not exactly sure that I want in on this, but here goes.
I've been a ham a few years. I'm a general. I have never seen any widespread mis-use of any ham band privileges. It doesn't sound like there is here. What it does sound like is a location where there are operators who, in some opinions, could use some polish to fit in. As I tally my sheet, 99.9 percent of the people I have contacted on the radio are gentlemans gentlemen.
I have no 2 meter activity at my home qth. I travel around in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana quite often. I hear silence, mostly. A few operators calling other operators. I've made every trip with my ht. Once in a while someone replies to 'monitoring for contacts'. I have seriously considered buying a gmrs radio to see if I would have anyone to talk to with it while traveling. (Don't tell my wife:) Perhaps my 1 1/2 watts isn't enough to modulate the repeater? I'm not sure if I can figure out how to mount my bugcatcher on the back of my old buick. That would be the best thing for me. 75 meters seems a little clickish, but 10 through 40 seems to be a great places to hang out.
btw (am I allowed to say that?), I am supposed to use 10 codes with my government band work radio, and no, I'm not in law enforcement. I've been waiting for the day when I'd accidentally say 10-4 on the ham bands. If I do do that some time on the air with one of you, just say 'John, 10-47?' I learned long ago that 10 codes on the ham bands are politically incorrect. In the other real world, there is not a more effective form of communication than 10 codes. The closest I ever came is using my previous call by accident. I kindly old gentleman reminded me of what my real call was.
One last thing. I passed my code test the second time, but just barely. Do you think it really means anything?
And one more last thing. Now, here is my real opinion. Want to keep your current operating privileges and frequencies? Recruit some new operators to use these ham bands, then. There is nothing more natural than 'if you don't use it, you lose it'. I'm sure most of you are good enough at coaching proper procedure and etiquette.
73's
W7FRS
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N6AJR on July 12, 2004
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The operator of the repeater has the ability and responsibility to have proper use of his or her machine.
A word to the offenders such as.. if you folks don't quit with the XXXXXXXX activity on the repeater I will have to ask you to refrain from using it. If this doesn't stop the behavior, what ever it is , then a call to riley is in order.
the repeater owner/operator/ control op has this ability and in fact is responsible for the consequences if they don't. 73 all
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KL7IPV on July 12, 2004
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I remember when the AM repeaters were on the air in Los Angeles, the problem existed then. There weren't many, but they were there. They were In Washington State in the early 70s. They were in Alaska and they were in Colorado. They are here in Las Vegas too.
In the 37 years I have used 2 meters repeaters, the problem has existed, It cannot be attributed to just CBers, truckers or bad people. It can be all that coupled with lack of training. It is up to the hams that use the repeaters to somehow get word out about what etiquette is expected to be used on repeaters. If a control op is so unhappy with what transpires on the repeater, close it. Issue open codes to those who are part of the group that uses it correctly or to the liking of the control op.
To blame others incessantly for bad usage really puts the fault on us. WE trained them. WE tested them. And finally, WE released them in "the wild". Would we do that if we were taking them hunting for the first time? Would we do that if we were teaching them how to fly? Why wouldn't we expect less of them when we release them with so little training? I have heard the enemy, and it is US! So now we need to correct it. Invite an "offender" to your shack and talk to them. Show them your station and show them "how it is done." Maybe then the problem will be reduced. Maybe even removed. But just talking about it ISN'T going to stop it. We need to correct the enemy. US!
73
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6IP on July 12, 2004
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It's pretty clear that different people have different ends of the elephant here.
I'm a VE, have been for a while: Haven't run into any "CBer" stereotype matches in all the test sessions. Most are public-service volunteers who want to add ARES to their public-service capabilities.
I travel a lot. Last year: Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming and Utah, maybe 15,000 road miles. With a CB, and FRS/GMRS, and a 2m in the car. Only encountered "CBers", once, when propagation allowed traffic from the southeast to reach Montana. Think there were maybe three guys being jerks. Rest of the time: mostly dead air, or long haul truckers chatting to pass the time. Got some good road advice on the CB; learned a lot about local construction delays from the FRS; and got a few tips on good places to eat on repeaters.
I live in a place with a dozen or so open 2m repeaters. Haven't heard a "CBer" or a problem ham on any of them. Most are quiet most of the time, except commute. A couple have groups of regulars, that tend to chat about radio stuff.
Speaking of CB, we've got Blackberry REACT here. Nice bunch. Tend to train with the ARES guys. (Not surprising, as several of the section management are also REACT officers.)
I spend a lot of time on 40m, and a bit of time listening on 75/80m. I guess there's a net a little farther up on 75 that's ill-behaved, but they don't reach my place, so I can only go by what other people tell me. Net I usually listen to there has a bunch of radio professionals. I've learned a lot, just listening. 40m nets are fun, although the propagation sucks just now.
Best part of 40m, right now, for me, is working 18-wheelers mobile. Some very fine ops, with very nice mobile setups; and I've worked mobiles in 34 states, so far, including HI, but not AK. I expect to WAS-AK with 40m mobiles before the end of the year.
I do know a few ex-CBers who are hams. Every once in a while they'll drop a bit of CB jargon. Keeps the exchanges from getting boring. Oh, and they're some of the best ops on 40m net, including one of our net control/relay ops.
I don't see a hobby that's being wrecked, although I do see one that's trying hard to suffocate itself.
I guess it's true, what they say: you find what you're looking for.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N5GEJ on July 12, 2004
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Darwin,
I’ve been a repeater trustee in the past for many years, until 1999. I’ve had many new hams come on and not know the ropes. I.e.: knowing what to say, how to act…you know, etiquette. Shoot, when I first got on I fell into all those holes. But when I did, the group would either help me right there on the air with tact or ask for my home phone and do it off the air or meet at the local dinner and get cup of coffee/dinner.
All of us old hands here MUST help them get confidence/welcome and know the etiquette of the air waves whether it be HF/VHF/FM/SSB/CW…...
Give them some time to understand… HELP them to understand.
Remember that WE are the stewards/teachers of the hobby.
73’s
Marcus
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W0XJ on July 12, 2004
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Alrighty then,
Repeater BECOMES a zoo? Does that mean it WAS different beforehand?
Someone has to make the obvious observation here. If this offends anyone too bad. Move out of the trailer park and sell your 1982 Camaro.
Is anyone really surprised that charlie bravo folks are on 2 meters (or 27.215 MHz AM) in a town called "Cumming" Georgia? And given an exam by someone named "Derwin" a "certified VE"?
Have Roscoe and Boss Hogg taken the test yet?
How can you expect folks to amazingly change into reasonably intelligent radio operators and act responsibly, when that flies in the face of their entire existence to that point.
Give me a break.
I can hear the banjos playing and Ned Beatty screaming.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG4GGC on July 12, 2004
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I also have to agree with N8MMZ and K9DI. What we are seeing in the hobby is not so much a result of easier tests, and more hams. It is a result of so much emphasis on rules and regulations and the different modes (NO! I am not getting into that CW controversy) than on teaching proper procedures, and operating principles. I know the rules and regulations must be taught, and learned to obtain a license. But listening to operators who have been licensed for years using language that is inappropriate for amateur radio, or anywhere else for that matter is certainly not the way to learn how to be a good operator. Listening on 75/80 meters at night, and even on 20 meters all day long provides proof that the length of time a person holds a license, or learns certain modes, or passes every exam does not necessarily make one a responsible operator.
I have only had my license three years, and I am not perfect now, and won't be. However I would not know anything about proper opertating policy, and courtesy as it relates to amateur radio if a couple of operators had not taken the time to call me aside and offer a lot of suggestions and to attempt to show me better ways. I only have one more comment for those among us who are perfect, and have always been perfect...come by my house and teach me how to walk on water....
Ralph
KG4GGC
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W9GRN on July 12, 2004
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I've made my share of mistakes on the repeater in my local area and corrected them.What I learned about going about it the right way was to listen, listen and listen more from decent operators over the years on how to use the repeaters in our area.No one taught me this .All my training came from a licensing manual I read and took the test.I've always thought respect was earned, not given.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD5DFM on July 12, 2004
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This one really upset me ! Do you mean some one with Depression or Bipolar or other Mental Illness don't belong on the radio . This is pure Predudice and don't belong on radio or any Ham activity or Web sight . btw ,call them cber's if you want , As long as they passed the test they can operate all they want to as long as they operate correctly following the rules , and as long as they have passed the test then they are hams and deserve to be treated like one . if they do wrong , fine them , or councel them or take there ticket away . but untill they don't have a ham ticket then they are Hams and all Hams ought to be treated the same . and no my fellow ham a lid or bad operator dosen't a Mentally Ill person make . there are many Mentally Ill people who are great hams and follow the rules and can dance cw rings around you ;-) .... .. btw Walter Cronkite has depression and is a Ham and far better person than you .
>. Instead, I've decided to >volunteer at the local Geriatric center and the State >Mental Health Center on Weekends, it's just as >entertaining as Amateur Radio. Hell, some of those >guys at the State Hospital have a long wire set up >and are operating on 80 M. They are HF guys, they >get .the rooms with TV's and a window (Walls still >have padding though)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD5DFM on July 12, 2004
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here we go again , why dont you two throw in a few racial slurs and sing about Herbert Hoover and how certain religions are bringing down ham radio ;-(
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KB3LGB on July 12, 2004
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It's simply a sign of our times, all people in general are less curtious. I am rejoinig ham radio from the 1960's and quickly noticed the changes in amateur radio operators. People in any new hobbies need help getting started and up to speed.The "me" people have to learn to be "we" people. I hope that we get many new hams as I understand the average age of amateur radio operators is 60! Today I am celebrating (sort of!) my 58 birthday! Lets work with our new hames to help make them good operators.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 12, 2004
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"Is anyone really surprised that charlie bravo folks are on 2 meters (or 27.215 MHz AM) in a town called "Cumming" Georgia? And given an exam by someone named "Derwin" a "certified VE"?"
I'm sorry, but this really sounds like a slam of Southerner's in general, and Georgians in particular. A fine example of ad hominem if there ever was one.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 12, 2004
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>RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
>by KC8RAK on July 11, 2004
>Hello.
>I'm a No Code Tech. I have enjoyed the hobby for >about 3 yrs. I have done a lot of public service >events with the local club. I get on HF once in >awhile at FD or when the club has a event's station. >I enjoy those time's on HF but i will wait to upgrade >when the code is no longer a requirement.I'll learn >the theory then. Does making you learn morse >code,make you smarter nope?
Why wait? It only takes about 30 minutes of daily practice for a couple of months to pass. It could be several years before the code is dropped. Take your destiny in your own hands instead of waiting on the government. Keep in mind that the FCC will not benefit either way so they have no reason to drop it or keep it. Therefore they have no motivation to change it.
> I have heard a lot of
>complaints of people who have there hf ticket and >talk like there on cb.
Just try using ham lingo on CB and see how you get hammered. Any time you join a specialized activity (radio or otherwise), they have their specialized vocabulary. It facilitates communication within that activity but is meaningless outside it.
> Just because you learned morse
>doesnt make you a good operator. Maybe the FCC sould >make everyone retest every 10 year's. I bet a lot >could not do it. How many have learned cw & theory >for the test but now couldnt do it for a test and >pass? How about making everyone have to know how to >use APRS or PSK and the other digital modes also a >long with CW? Morse code is just a mode of >communication. Give it a break. It doesnt make you a >good operator. If i have to learn morse then you old >timers need to learn the digital stuff or stop >grabing.
It was the "old timers" who came up with these modes. I don't know their ages but they are "old timers" in the sense that they had the higher class licenses and had been licensed for a significant period of time. Although I'm not really into digital, I've hooked them up occasionally just to be sure I could. There was nothing required other than hooking up the hardware, loading the software and operating. They have a slight variation on etiquette. So what is there to really learn here? The digital modes are very boring as they seem too impersonal so I take down the setup afterwards. On those rare occasions that I operate digital, it always seems that it is mostly "old timers" that I contact. On VHF/UHF outside of repeaters, it is the same thing. Most of the contacts are the "old timers". The Techs are not exploring the SSB, CW, AM, satellite work and new developments as was expected when the Tech class was created and given unlimited privileges above 30Mhz. I've worked the VHF/UHF contests and get the same results, mostly General class operators and above. Where are the Techs? Why aren't they exploring these activities? I do know a few who are but not many. These few are also the few that are working toward their next license, participate fully in the club, participate in public service, or other ham activities. In other words, they are fully engaged in the hobby and are not just sitting on their hands. Too many of the rest of them seem to be content to be on the repeaters without participation in the wide variety of activities available to them and wait for code to be dropped to get onto HF.
Ham radio needs people who do not people who wait.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by HAMS_R_FAT_PIGS on July 12, 2004
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Instead of worrying about 10 codes, "73's" and "love you hun'" and other little mindless things that you disagree with but are totally legal by the FCC, how about worrying how most of you look in public?
Overweight, underwashed, pretending that the world will end without some idiot with a vest and and HT.
American hams are the armpit of the hams in the rest of the world. Even third world. The rest of the hams in the world don't argue over stupid things like this.
73's & 10-4 good buddies to all you repeater cops!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4ZMV on July 12, 2004
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The complaints about chicken band are OK. But, for goodness sakes folks please read and reread your emails before you send them. We are judged by what we say or write. If an outsider were to explore this forum, they would assume most of us were illiterate. I'm no English major, but at least I know when to capitalize, what a complete sentence is, what tense to use for verbs, and how to spell. An email doesn't need to be perfect, but at least it doesn't need to look like a third grader wrote it. People assume that if your written work is sloppy, then the rest of what you do will be the same. With the BPL crud going on, we don't need outsiders to the hobby to read a forum like this and pass judgement on us.
By the way, Cumming, Georgia does exist. It's right up the road from me. Based on my experiences on our repeaters, CB'ers are alive and well.
Jim
K4ZMV
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N4LI on July 12, 2004
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You know...
There really isn't much to add here. But, I can say that the No-coders on our local machines are, as a group, a fine group of folks who are a credit to the hobby.
I should point out, however, that the Hams in Memphis are a pretty proactive group of Elmers. Perhaps that makes the difference. Teach, and one reaps the benefits.
We have a boy here who just got his license. He's 12 -- maybe. The first day or two he was a bit rough: callsigns out of order, sheepish on the mic, etc. But, the locals were patient, and worked with him. Now, he sounds like a pro -- young, but a pro.
Remember, traffic on a repeater is good. Let's encourage use of the machines, and guide where we can.
Peter, N4LI
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8VCL on July 12, 2004
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"Kind Soles! "
LOL!!(sigh)
Seen the CB thing myself. Sorry. Ya don't get that too much on CW tho. :-)
73
Scott
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD8OK on July 12, 2004
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I have been licensed for 24 years and have seen the good, bad and ugly on 2 meters and beyond.
It is unfortunate that you are expecting people to be "mature operators" after only 5 weeks of time. You need to elmer these people, not critize them. They are only doing what they believe is correct. Most likely, someone elmered you, and it is time that you do the same.
In reality, licensing is a very small part of ham radio. Learning and growing in the hobby comes after the license and it is up to us "seasoned" hams to step up to the plate and encourage newer hams, not critize their activity.
This isn't something that is limited to 2 meters. You can hear it in some form on just about every band.
So I think it is time to stop cursing the darkness and light a candle. Help a new ham out. That is the only way they will learn.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4III on July 12, 2004
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There's a lot more than a 2m repeater in the ham hobby. A repeater is simply in PC terminology a computer that can be networked, blocked, firewalled, etc...
FIRST, MAYBE THE TRUSTEE WANTS TO HEAR THESE PEOPLE!
IF NOT,
GET WITH THE TRUSTEE AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO REMOVE THE STUFF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
Just like a computer having virus protection, spam blocking, firewalls, and a power switch...
Repeaters can use tones, DCS, (Soon Spread Spectrum & Digital modes on 2m band), Two-Tone, Tone Burst (used mostly in Europe but no one says you can't use it in USA), DTMF codes to bring up and shut down, timers, and of course you could always make it private if you wish or all else fails or move it to 440 or 900 Mhz.
Just because the wheel seems somewhat flat doesn't mean the car won't ride or that it can't be fixed to work. Sometimes it may just have to be placed on a different vehicle!!!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KT3K on July 12, 2004
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I wonder how hard it would be for the folks at eham to modify their posting script to validate callsigns? That way, only people with a valid callsign could make or reply to a post? (instead of allowing all the lurkers who make ridiculous comments and hide behind some cb handle).
KT3K
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K0RGR on July 12, 2004
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Why don't you guys take this discussion over to QRZ.COM where it belongs? This used to be the website that was nice to new people. Oh, that's right, QRZ outlawed this kind of newbie bashing didn't they?
I'm a second generation old timer with nearly 40 years a ham and 30 as an Extra. And, I can tell you that the only people who worry about whether we say '73' or '73s' are people from certain parts of the Midwest where they 'warsh' their clothes and their cars.
Here, there is only one person who uses CB jargon on the repeater. He is 66, a long-time Advanced Class licensee, and he wrestles with Jack Daniels almost every day. When I first set up Echolink on one of our repeaters, everytime some DX showed up, he sounded like he was 'shooting skip' on channel 19. "Come on back, now , I got a copy on ya...". It took a very long time to retrain him.
I can also tell you that some parts of the ham spectrum have always attracted the strange, the different, and the perverse. Two meter FM is one of those places. Ages ago, this was part of its appeal.
Indeed, back then, longtime hams stayed away from 2 meters, because they would run afoul of the standard operating procedures there. If you were used to 2 meter AM, for example, you'd be inclined to get on FM and call a nice long CQ! Needless to say, this would often get the repeater shut off!
Over time, this and many other factors created a vacuum of experienced operators on VHF FM. As a result, newbies had no role models, and local patterns of operation developed, some good, some horrid.
As others have suggested, don't complain - set an example! If the good ops are keeping the repeater busy, using good practices, the newbies will fall in line. Nobody wants to stick out like a sore thumb.
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YOUR 2 METER RIG HAS AN ON/OFF SWITCH, USE IT
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by KI6YN on July 12, 2004
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I use the local repeaters on the way to work in the early morning hours and enjoy talking to a small group. During the weekend and on the way home, the rig remains off. For some reason, it bothers me to hear someone give their call sign using the phonetic alphabet on FM. Some of them try to sound like some sort of stereotyped DX operation. I only work CW on HF and if amateur radio was only VHF, I'd never had entered the hobby. This doesn't mean I'm against 2 meter operation, whatever one enjoys and is legal, then by all means, do it. It just doesn't work for me so I turn the radio off when I hear it. When I turn on the HF rig and hear 'tst'; I immediately go to the WARC bands. I don't like contesting, but I understand the fun it can be for some. Most of them are using computers on CW and I refuse to connect up a computer to my equipment other than for factor updates. That doesn't make it wrong; it just isn't my thing. Again, instead of crying about bad operators or etiquette, just change repeaters; email the person/s offending you and try and work things out, or get a new hobby. A hobby is supposed to relax you, not stress you out.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 12, 2004
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Don't think I've ever seen so many whacko's in one place. The constant mentioning of CB tells a lot. CB has been dead since when..1979 ? okay lets just call it 1980 and you're talking about CB like it's commonly used. I keep expecting to see a thread about The oil Embargo or how Jimmy Carter screwed up the Iranian Hostage Rescue. Man, you guys are really WEIRD.
I think the ARRL realizes the hobby has two feet in a coffin with a white knuckled fist clinging on to the dirt, 'Don't think you guys realize it and worse yet YOU DON'T CARE. Have you seen the number of posts mentioning dead silence on VHF ?
You know the story referring to the guy lost in the jungle who thinks the Viet Nam war is still being fought ? I always thought that was a Urban Legend but after reading some of these posts, I'm not so sure
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W1XZ on July 12, 2004
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Now I guess I can understand wanting a tech ticket and not being able to do it without a class, but if someone needs training to use a repeater They are dimmer than anyone I want to talk to.
The problem in these parts is repeater toads. You know of whom I speak. Things start out pretty good. Someone or some club puts a machione on the air, and, everyone joins in. Things ar pretty cool, but over time something starts to change. You tune in and there is the toad. 2 in the morning or 4 in the afternoon he is there. He doesn't seem to work or have a life other than one behind the mic of his trusty 2 meter rig. If you have a question he has the answer. If you have a topic he has a better one...and he tells you and everyone in ear shot. As time goes by, one by one, all the other users wander off to simplex or get on HF or talk on the phone leaving the repeater and its toad far behind. All that is left is the toad and his buddies gettin' destinated and trading first personals.
See y'all down the log. 10-4? 73's!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W0XJ on July 12, 2004
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Hello KA4KOE,
I notice you did not disagree with my assessment of ther obvious.
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum and will continue ad infinitum.
Contrary to your ad hominem label, the post was meant to point out what is obvious to the rest of the world not living in Dale Jr. collectible bucket of chicken country.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W6TH on July 12, 2004
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All good things will come to an end. You cheapen it and the cost is lowered.
You get what you pay for.
.:
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WB2WIK on July 12, 2004
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It's unfortunate this happened, but, frankly, a lot of VHF (and some UHF) repeaters turned into "zoos" a very long time ago. Here in L.A., there was one very famous (infamous?) repeater called the "Animal Farm" which was incredibly out of control and had been for twenty years or more. Riley tried to pull that one into control and helped a bit -- at least, the repeater was sold (at least twice) and relocated to have somewhat different, and a bit less, coverage. And some of the lunatics actually died off, so the repeater's gotten a bit better by attrition.
Not all the crazies are newbies, and they're not all Techs, either.
But as always, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you don't work with these folks to help steer them in the right direction, even against their will, then giving up and going away is the other option.
WB2WIK/6
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N1ZPP on July 12, 2004
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After spending a few minutes reading this topic, I feel compelled to throw my $.02 into the mix.
Here in southern NH, 2m repeaters are clean and fun. I don't encounter *ANY* "CB" type operation on any reapeater in the area. In fact, some of the busiest repeaters here in the area are filled with courteous, knowledgeable operators of all ages. This leads me to believe that the "CB" type operating is localized to specific areas, not a nation-wide trend.
There are obvious parallels that can be drawn between this "CB" situation and a similiar situation I encountered with a maturing and popular ski related discussion forum I operate. As the forum grew larger and became more popular, a lot of newcomers (new to forums in general) started posting rude comments, insults and other generally unwanted crap. This discussion forum community was known for high quality discussions, and the actions of a few "newbies" forced quite a few of the long-term members to stop participating.
The long-term members who dropped from the forums all gave a reason similar to what I'm reading in this discussion... "I didn't like the operating practices of the other members, so I stopped operating". Herein lies the problem!
The problem isn't the "CB" operators. The problem is the people who stopped using 2m repeaters because of them. This is the exact opposite of how to go about solving the situation! Obviously, those troubled repeaters need more experienced 2m operators, not to yell at the "CB" types, but to simply set an operating example. If the "CB"ers hear more and more people on the repeater being courteous, giving proper calls, etc., especially if chatting directly with a courteous operator, they're going to pick up on good operating habits. The problem now is only compounded by the fact that good 2m operators are dropping out, leaving fewer example setters!
In the real-world example of my discussion forum, I completely turned the situation around by encouraging the experienced forum participants to NOT leave the forum because of the new inexperienced members. Now, the new members themselves have picked-up good forum habits because they had an example to learn from, and all is well!
So to all you 2m operators out there that are not operating on local repeaters because of "CB"ers, I say get back on the air and start setting an example of how to operate properly.
'73 de N1ZPP
--Chris
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by KG6TEW on July 12, 2004
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I made several posts on July 11, so this reply in only valid if you have read them...many of you make me feel as though I should be ashamed I am a no-code tech. We all have to start somewhere. If we make mistakes we expect to be "elmered" (I prefer the word mentored). Everyone makes mistakes, even the most experienced folks in their professions or hobbies. I was really excited when I read, and studied, ARRL's training book for my no-code tech license. I know I didn't need to actually study the book, but I spent months, after getting my work done each night, studying for my ham radio license. I actually DID all the math (that bit was easy) and I even built coaxle components, put electronic parts together, read oscilliscopes, etc. When I EARNED my license I was excited and proud. But many of you make me feel ashamed. I feel the pressure to quickly learn CW (which I am doing now) so I can upgrade my license and rid myself of the dreaded 2x3 call sign. I am educated, driven, and respectful of ham's past history (though I still am learning about it). But hey, thanks for making me feel as though I don't belong in your world.
To those who are supportive of us "newbies", my sincerest apologies for this post - it was not directed at you.
73, KG6TEW
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K7VO on July 12, 2004
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We had problems with jammers and CBers using CB lingo and doing things that should have gotten them a pink slip from the FCC. The local club repeater had turned into a zoo just like the one the author describes. This happened on the club repeater of the first ham club I belonged to back in 1985.
Clue: "dumbing down" or changes in licensing have nothing to do with it. What has happened on some repeaters (not any here at the moment) is more reflective of a change in society as a whole rather than changes in how one gets licensed. Dropping the Morse testing requirement for the General license, for example, will not turn 75 meter SSB into a sewer. It already *IS* a sewer and has been for the 20 years I've been licensed.
I did see the club clean up the mess on it's repeater. I did see the FCC clean up the mess around 14.313. I agree with not abandoning 2m and with rather working to correct the problem. It can be done.
Finally, I think some of you know that I really like 222MHz and I am quite the advocate for that band. When I added 222 to the shack and to my mobile station I did NOT take away 2m or 70cm. My reason for 222MHz is simple: the best repeaters in my area with the widest coverage are on that band. I still talk on 2m.
Anyway, my advice to the repeater owner of the "zoo" is to talk to these people politely but firmly. If that doesn't work inform them that they are no longer welcome on the repeater. If that doesn't work shut down the repeater every time they appear. They'll get the message.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 12, 2004
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Ref N1ZPP, Chris here locally we tried every way in the world to be nice to these cb types. We went this route for two years not correcting them on the air and being nice, talking to them eyeball to eyeball. Most times we got cussed out for trying to help them. I see up the thread many of you suggest just to give them time and be nice to them and for us to set an example for them. Well a few of them told me they were going to change "us". I got this comment after the two years was gone by and i was trying to get them to use their call signs instead of cb handles on the repeater system. After this i turned my problem over to the fcc and now i have no problems on the repeaters. You folks have to understand there's people out there that want to do nothing but go against the grain. They get their kicks from cussing, being rude and breaking the rules. As long as we sit around and let them do this then more and more of the same types show up. I envy you fine folks there in the northeast. It used to be that way here ten years ago. Now bubba chickenband is "trying" taking over.
73
John WR8D
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by WB4TGT on July 12, 2004
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yep its got too easy .you are right all the way.
i keep asking my self i saw this coming 10 years ago or more.
and forget the arrl . they are now for their selves and not ashamed we know it.
we need another adviser to the fcc. i wouldnt care if we gave them the repeaters and repeaters only. all rest could go on hf
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 12, 2004
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To KG6TEW
Keep in mind that the vast majority of hams welcome new people and are willing to help until they are "slapped in the face" so to speak by the very few bad apples. It is an unfortunate fact of life that the few bad characters are the ones who get all the publicity and end up tarnishing the reputation of the entire group. Generally all each of us can do when that happens is to be our very best.
I know dozens of fine Technicians and only one jerk. I simply refuse to talk to the jerk.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K6BBC on July 12, 2004
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KT3K - is it that you just don't like to read other peoples thoughts?
K6BBC
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 12, 2004
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From WR8D: Your wrote "After this i turned my problem over to the fcc and now i have no problems on the repeaters. You folks have to understand there's people out there that want to do nothing but go against the grain. They get their kicks from cussing, being rude and breaking the rules."
This is true of anyplace you go, enerywhere you go, or anyone you meet. As a teacher I have to deal with many problem teens; those who want merely to ruin the learning environment because "they can". But I still work hard to set an example and I find ways to work it out without further alienating the child. Rarely am I not successful getting through to them. So, I agree with your comment.
Bashing people is probably the worst thing one could do to change a behavior. But if you don't try to change them in productive ways, and find you are unsuccessful, then go to a higher authority; the FCC. But don't go to a forum such as this to merely complain and bash; it serves no purpose (and I am NOT implying YOU, WR8D, have done this).
I thought about taking a class offered by a local ham club. When I got there it was clear I wasn't truly welcomed. I was the only female and the elmers were older men who felt intimidated by my presence. The tension that developed when I registered became overwhelming. I decided to study on my own. Perhaps this should have been the red flag warning.
Oh well, I have the license; time to move on and do my best to preserve what I understand about ham radio...
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W5LSD on July 12, 2004
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Do you also notice that almost none
of these dumbdowners ever discuss anything of
a technical nature among themselves? And if you
try to steer a QSO towards technical aspects
of the repeater system you find they are
not really interested.
I recently heard a QSO between 2 codeless/theoryless
types that were on a repeater that had lost AC power
and periodically announced "low battery" because the backup battery voltage was dropping. These "Technicians" remarked how
cool it was for the repeater to let them know
that their HT batteries were being depleted !
Amateur Radio sure has changed (thanks ARRL)
and it's comforting to know we are still in for
the on air results of the upcoming dumbdown.
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by KD5UJX on July 12, 2004
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QUOTE: "I'm sure the newer and younger generation will finally come around and quit saying 73's and start talking about their illnesses, medications and how ham radio is going to hell just like the currnet OT's like us are already doing on "our repeaters". Did they accidently break into your weekly hemorrhoid net?
Give them 20 to 30 years and they'll be just like you, another grumpy old idiot. Me, I'm still a kid at heart. I welcome all newcomers as long as they're friendly with eager and well meant intentions.
73 de
The eHam Guest"
Bravo! Well said.
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by KG6TEW on July 12, 2004
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To KD5UJX: I like your sense of humor; yours was a great reply (I had similar thoughts but just couldn't bring myself to posting it). I hear several older hams doing this very same thing on repeaters. I merely roll my eyes and switch frequencies. Truly, I feel a bit better now... :)
73, KG6TEW
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by N8MMZ on July 12, 2004
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WR8D writes: "Ref N1ZPP, Chris here locally we tried every way in the world to be nice to these cb types. We went this route for two years not correcting them on the air and being nice, talking to them eyeball to eyeball. "
John while I will take your other replies under advisement, I take exception to this one.
In my personal testimony, I came over from the CB bands in the mid 1980's and was corrected a couple of times - ON AIR - by the control op of the WB4LAI repeater in Dayton, OH. That went a pretty good ways to setting myself straight. You can read through the posts on this thread and see that many people are embarassing themselves - I doubt anyone really minds being corrected ON AIR to help them out.
I think the bigger problem is a lack of control operators on some of the repeaters and the approach used by the author in "teaching" ham radio - I suspect that he was "teaching" the students only what they would need to know to pass the test.
Now for the rest of the uppity folks on this thread - I appologize, I did not realize that Amateur Radio in the U.S. reflected the upper eschelon of intelligence, demeanor, personality, and occupation in this society. I was under the impression that it represented a pretty good cross section of America. I offer my sincere appologies for bringing a low life, such as myself, to the ham bands from CB only to end up polluting your bands with my presence.
73s - oops, that is for CW only.
Regards,
Jonathan
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by HAMS_R_FAT_PIGS on July 12, 2004
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Ya'll check in to the weekly OT hemorrhoid and gallstone net.
There is a minimum age requirement is 70 and ham radio cannot be considered fun. Only strict and professional radio protocol allowed and you must be genuinely miserable with your life. Any violators will be banned from participation.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 12, 2004
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From: N8MMZ
"I appologize, I did not realize that Amateur Radio in the U.S. reflected the upper eschelon of intelligence, demeanor, personality, and occupation in this society."
It doesn't.
"I was under the impression that it represented a pretty good cross section of America."
It does; though it appears to be turning out to be quite elitist. I hope I am wrong, I truly do.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N1OU on July 12, 2004
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Seems like if you went to all the trouble to do the license course, a few minutes on the basics of repeater usage would have been appropriate.
We have a "use it or lose it" hobby. When there are too few hams, or worse, no organization to speak on our behalf, there won't be any more spectrum for our use.
Newcomers are a necessity. Educate them. Don't berate them.
73
Gordon, N1OU
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by NJ0E on July 12, 2004
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behave on the air using the practices you feel
represent the best available. the only on-the-air
practices you can control are your own.
don't get heartburn over matters you can't control.
73
scott nj0e
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by JUSTASWLER on July 12, 2004
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It's goes something like this:
A Person suddenly realizes he's on the lower part of the food chain. Nobody wants to be there and it's extremely difficult if not impossible to move up the human food chain, so a person might turn to a hobby or some kind of "sub culture" and make attempts to be at the TOP of the food chain there. So in this case, if a certain person is higher than a Tech, no code, Cb'er Etc, he can feel to be at the top of the food Chain and in his mind, makes up for the fact that in real life his status has not changed and is still low
There a a few Upper eschelon Hams roaming around but lets face it, most amteurs here in the US are working class guys
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N0RKX on July 12, 2004
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If you want to clean things up take the advice you've been given. Try gentle persuasion and friendly training first. You may be surprised.
If that doesn't work you can always resort to ignoring them hoping they catch a hint, shutting down the machine when they show up, etc....
There are ways to keep the un-trainable off the machine just like we do on a couple of computer enthusiast forums I frequent. Think about assigning a few "troll hunters" to the repeaters who will try gentle persuasion followed by a big stick.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by EFH777 on July 12, 2004
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While I understand your frustration, I am getting back into Ham Radio after a 5 year absence. I have seen a tremendous change in the hobby. I have seen most repeaters go private, or add PL (CTCSS) tones, (South Orange County/LA) making it difficult, if not impossible to access an open repeater. I have heard for years, that fewer people are getting into HR, and so the license easing. In fact, I passed my Tech No-Code after studying pool questions for two days (I do have a degree in electronics). I am studying for my general, and again, I will study the pool questions. I almost fell over when they said that 5 WPM is all that is needed. I struggled with 13 WPM when General was like that.
With steady decline, and less interest in HF bands for new entrants...It will die. I have read quite of few of the comments, and I think that there is no mentoring, and so people believe this is the CB of 21's century. I believe most people, if spoken to, would obey the rules. (My opinion).
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N6TZ on July 12, 2004
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Two Things,
First,
I have believed for years that the license exam should be primarily Operating techniques and use of rigs. Not many hams are really technicians any longer. Save the technical for maybe the Extra Class only.
Second,
You are lucky to have activity on your repeaters. Here in Ventura County in Souther California, the repeaters are a ghost town. If you need help, you can yell your head off on most of them and nobody is around. So you are a step up from us, in that you at least have active Hams.
Hal, N6TZ
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by PU1-MLL on July 12, 2004
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Hi.
Unfortunately this problem is general all around the world. In Rio de Janeiro we must face it almost every day. What can we do ? People doesn´t respect anyone, that´s the clue. God save HAM.
73
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W4CX on July 12, 2004
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Funny....We never have these problems on CW. Yet the anti-code ranters still complain about this repeater / LID crap.
This is a perfect example of us getting out of the hobby in proportion to the work we put into it. And, sorry, coughing up a couple hundred bucks for a HT doesn't count for squat.
Real contributions mean real work. Real work means real reward. Learn and use CW for a breath of fresh air.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N6AJR on July 12, 2004
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Remember there is more to life than 2 meter fm.. have your unruly tech's try 2 meter moon bounce, or talk to hawaii on 6m ssb..........
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8MMZ on July 12, 2004
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PU1MLL et. al.
It wasn't that way in the past - sure, CB converts got a little ribbing every now and then but they weren't called pejorative terms such as "chickenbanders". Greenhorns (new folks) weren't called "dumbdowners" either; and I ought to know, I came along under Novice Enhancement, another contentious time in Ham Radio. I am embarassed by the condescending behavior - and there are several on this site who should be ashamed of their conduct and attitudes. If your attitudes prevail, our hobby WILL soon meet its ending. Perhaps that is what you truly wish?
I'm not sure who really highjacked the hobby - we all came in as new folks, many who knew little about radio or operating etiquette. Some experienced people in the hobby took the time and the initiative to help us out - granted it was a two way street - we had to meet our Elmers half way - but based on some of the comments here, it appears that some in our community feel that new folks should ascend into the heavens to meet and be accepted by the graybeards of the hobby.
I'm not sure that that is the right philosiphy - you can look at religion. True, Moses climbed the mountain to recieve the commandments, but God also descended to him from the heavens. We must be willing to unseat ourselves from these pedastals we've put ourselves on and meet some of these new folks to help them the rest of the way - instad of abandoning them to their own devices.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 12, 2004
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"Contrary to your ad hominem label, the post was meant to point out what is obvious to the rest of the world not living in Dale Jr. collectible bucket of chicken country."
Those comments were racist, bigoted, and just plain stupid. That's obvious to me and I hope, the rest of the sane people in this forum.
I don't recall any announcements of late from on high annointing you as speaker for the rest of the world.
No comment was deemed worthwhile on the rest of the post since your ad hominem statement basically nullifed everything else you said, and it was deemed a pure waste of time to read.
This type of attitude is exactly why the Democrats will again lose big in the South.
Just my 2.32234 cents worth.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA0RJ on July 12, 2004
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When I first became a Ham back in the early 70s, I was drawn to the hobby for two reasons. First, I loved everything electronic and was fascinated about communicating over radio to people around the world and far off places that I could only dream about. The second reason; I saw Hams as real ladies and gentlemen. People who were polite and disciplined, had a set of rules to follow and followed them. People who were polite and dignified; people with high ethical standards.
I am saddened by what I have seen our hobby become. We used to be a cut above the general population, a group that young people could look up to and want to emmulate. Now, it seems we are permiting ourselves to be dragged down into the mire rather than lifting people up as an example of what we all could become. I know we can't be perfect, but we can try to be the best we can be.
When I see the rudeness and disrescpectful attitudes appearing in Ham circles and on the air, I really mourn for our hobby. As for me, I love this hobby and I will attempt to always be polite and considerate of others.
I hope we will all try to think of other people before ourselves and be a group of people that others will want to join because we do treat them better than they can get elsewhere.
I may be an idealist, but I believe in this hobby and the people in it. My favorite story is a 10 year old boy I helped get into the hobby. He took the Tech test 6 times before finally passing it. He refused to give up. He was so proud. The first time he got on a repeater, someone was so rude to him he hasn't been on since.
Best regards to all!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by NN6EE on July 12, 2004
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Gentlemen,
It seems to be a mixed-bag does'nt it???
In one respect we want to increase our numbers to keep the non-Ham HF interests at bay, while on the other hand we as legally licensed Hams demand a certain amount of conformity with our "Lingo" as well as operating practices. Not that I have any problem with that mind you, it's just that the Boys'n'Girls coming into our HOBBY are so diverse that it's pretty damn hard to expect anything less than what we're all now experiencing!!!
Like here in MY local area we've got a local 2m. repeater that CLAIMS to be OPEN and their repeater's IDer gives their call and then it SAYS "WELCOME!!!" could'nt be further from the TRUTH!!! The local REPEATER here on 147.06 does not only NOT welcome strangers as a matter of practice but they take a STEP further to IGNORE "NEWBIES" whether they be old or young!!!
When "OPEN" repeaters do not give everyone the WELCOME that they deserve by virtue of going thru the licensing process and expending the money for a rig to get on the air and be given a chaqnce to get their feet wet then THEY have EARNED the RIGHT to be treated as one of US!!!
Regards,
Jim/ee
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by KE4QDC on July 12, 2004
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I am the author of the orginal post and I must say I am thrilled at all the responses this has recevived. From reading the posts it appears that I need to clear up a few things. First the 5 week course was devided up as to allow time to cover all the sections contained in the tech license pool equal time.
As far as the "on the air" problems. The few ops involved seem to think it is their personl ,private machine. If a round table discussion is underway or a 2 way conversation is under way they do not hestiate to but in and make a call and take over the repeater at will. Never do they ask to make a call or break in to the conversation properly if they have something to add to the current topic. Anyway thats the way it is. A husband/wife team sure carries on a lot of conversations that most people would not want the rest of the world to know about. I could go on & on but I have to leave for our local ARES meeting at this time. I look forward to reading all of the responses to this article.
73
KE4QDC
Ferrell
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WR8D on July 12, 2004
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Good lord! it turned into a code debate, now its politics. Jonathan, you've got to not let what others do, bother you. None of these comments are directed at you. I know several new very nice folks that just came off cb to the hambands. The way the world works though is a few bad apples give the whole gang a bad name. Don't let it bother you. Get on the air and have a good time. The same logic applies to us old farts too. Most new guys think all of us are cranky as hell and snobs. See what i mean. Let it go in one ear and out the other. Like the old saying goes if the shoe fits..its clear to me you're not one of the trouble makers and just because you're new to the hobby i can't put you in the same group as these i've had dealings with for the last few years. To most of us it honestly does'nt make any differance if someone had a harder code test to pass. Its the quality of the operator you meet on the bands. I'll have to admit though there are those that do look down on others who had an easier test. Just as i agree with you there's many that think all new folks are jerks too. I'm not one of them though, and the gang i hang out with feel the same way i do. Just find a nice group somewhere and join in and start having fun. Thats what its all about. When it gets to the point its not fun anymore we're in trouble.
73 and have a great day!
John WR8D
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AG4RQ on July 12, 2004
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Ferrell, I have read all the posts to this thread. I am most interested in your account of things, particularly in your follow-up post. There appears to be blatant wanton and willful violations of Part 97 by these newbies. My advice to you is to get with the repeater’s control op regarding the situation, as what goes out over this repeater is the control op’s responsibility, as well as those who are committing the actual violations. Since you and your local group prepared these newbies for the exam, both your group and the control op of the repeater need to attempt to set these people straight. After it is spelled out for them what they are doing wrong, let them know that if they don’t clean up their act, that Riley Hollingsworth from the FCC will deal with their violations. WR8D successfully handled a similar problem by calling Riley in. If the newbies don’t straighten up and fly right, do as WR8D did.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K7FD on July 12, 2004
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What? You don't like hearing those infamous words and phrases like 'neg-a'tory' and '10-4' on the local repeater?? Me neither!
That's why I stay on CW...the best FILTER ever developed for Amateur Radio. It just notches them there good buddies out every time...
73rds, K7FD
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by K7FD on July 12, 2004
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..."Dale Jr. collectible bucket of chicken country"
Hey, I resemble that comment. Long Live NASCAR!!
John K7FD
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 12, 2004
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Maintaining standards is NOT elitism. It is simply a means of creating a pleasant environment for all participants.
When I was a kid, we were dirt poor farmers. My father required that we speak respectfully to people and not swear. That was hardly elitism.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA2JJH on July 12, 2004
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I do not want this to make this yet another CW/ANTI-CW DEAD HORSE DEBATE!
Most NCT's are A-OK with me.
However, in my day........We had to get a novice ticket first with a 5WPM CW requirement. It was good for only 2 years.
All your QSO's were in CW. I was into CB as a kid.
I think being on CW only for a year,made my CB habits get lost real quick!
However......In all fairness, we did have some really whacko 2M repeaters when there was a code requierment for 2M use.
The jammers on some of the machines, sounded just as bad as CB.
I hear GMRS repeaters in NYC that sound more decent than an out of control 2M repeater.
Someone said....Not everyone needs a ham ticket.
I think you maybe right. Maybe some should pay the $75,and go GMRS. You can buy a motorola H-t for GMRS dirt cheap.
There are many GMRS repeaters in my area. They have just as good coverage as some 2M repeaters.
No test,no CW, no old timers telling you to stop using CB lingo.
Most of the better ham repeaters are owned by good clubs and are on 440.
Back in my day when a repeater group lost control, the repeater would be shut down for days. They would also change the PL. They also DFed the jammers.
If you want to go to extremes, have a DPL in and a PL out. Most radio's(except commercial radio's) are not that easy to get the DPL, and have a regular PL on the output.
Sure, someone with a service monitor can get the DPL and PL quickly. I am sure the newer radio's will read a DPL. However it makes it inconvenient for them.
The New DPL and PL will be given out at club meetings or Email.
It is up to the owner or club to police the machine.
I do not think too many CBers have a service monitor.
I could be wrong too!
good luck and 73 DE MIKE
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W0XJ on July 12, 2004
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Well hello again Mr. KA4KOE.
Hmmm, let me see if I understand your post correctly.
"Those comments were racist, bigoted, and just plain stupid. That's obvious to me and I hope, the rest of the sane people in this forum."
Is what you are saying that, ALL people that live in the South, Georgia, or eat fried chicken out of a Dale Jr. bucket are of a different RACE than the rest of us the homo sapiens? I was not aware that Y'ALL considered yourselves to be a different RACE of people, but that could explain a lot.
Bigoted? What? Let's see, do people in Georgia live in trailer parks? YES. Do people in Georgia drive 1982 Camaros? YES. Do people in Georgia play banjos? YES. Were there folks on television named Roscoe and Boss Hogg that lived in the South and chased a car named General Lee? YES. Do people in Georgia eat fried chicken from Dale Jr. buckets? YES. How then is any of this RACIST or BIGOTED when in fact everything is an observation of facts?
Then please refer to my previous observation.
Stupid? Hmmm, I still note that you have not disagreed with my obvious observations so I must then infer then that in actuality you agree with them, or cannot think of anything better than to call someone's observations stupid. I am rubber and you are glue...
"I don't recall any announcements of late from on high anointing you as speaker for the rest of the world". Hmm, I was not aware that in this country one had to be anointed speaker for the rest of the world in order to voice one's own opinions or observations. Shall I alert the Think Police?
"This type of attitude is exactly why the Democrats will again lose big in the South." Where in the world did this come from?
Well, I can't disagree with this statement and exactly how is it a problem that Democrats are losing elections? The more Republicans elected in the south, the less Jimmy Carters and George Wallaces the rest of us will have to endure.
Shame on you for letting me draw you into this thread and allowing me to exploit your weaknesses.
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by K0RFD on July 12, 2004
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What an interesting thread. Interesting, but stupid.
Let's see if I can summarize what I've learned.
-Some people new to the hobby use terminology and idioms unfamiliar to people who have been in the hobby a long time. Not necessarily illegal, just unfamiliar, not in the style of what is commonly accepted.
- A small minority of people actually violate the law and make it difficult for others. Since some of these people are newbies, all newbies must be similarly evil.
- Some people don't like the way new people coming into the hobby talk and don't want to talk to them. (see bullet 1). Since those people don't actually *talk* to the people they don't like, they don't really know anything about them and therefore don't really know why they don't like them. Except that they don't like them.
- Other people coming into the hobby feel that they should not be tarred with the same brush as the ones who either talk funny or break the law.
- The people who don't like the new people coming into the hobby are sometimes VEs, and sometimes give training. Although these people are the ones responsible to bring new people into the hobby, newbies are all bad and it's somebody else's fault. Go figure.
Does that about summarize what we've seen here?
Come on people. I don't think we need to be dragging just any wino into the hobby out of the gutter, but by the same token, if we don't get at least as many new people into the hobby as old people who die, there eventually won't be anybody to talk to. Whether that is a GOOD thing or not depends a lot on whether you frequent 75 meters.
If the new people talk funny, well either educate them or learn to live with it. If it's legal, or if they are otherwise decent people (who 99.99% of them are) you have no beef. It's just different. That's called "change".
I could ramble on forever. But in the interest of NOT rambling, let me summarize:
NOBODY gets to be the last person thru the door and then has the privilege of slamming the door behind them. We need to accept new people into the hobby, or there will be nobody to talk to. If we don't like how these new people operate, and there's something really WRONG with how they operate, we should show them the ropes. We were all rookies once. Shoot. I STILL am.
But if it's simply a matter of style vs substance, well, get a life.
-
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KE4QDC on July 12, 2004
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As the orginal author of this article I feel an update is needed. First let me say that in no way was this article intended to reflect negatively on the class instructors or my fellow VE members. I certainly have nothing but the highest respect for each of them and the hard work and effort that went in to their preparation. The 5 week course was conducted each Saturday for a mininum of 3 hours each with most of them running over as everyones questions and concerns were addressed before adjourning. Each session was devoted to a certain chapter or portion of the Tech exam. We certainly have a great group here in Cumming Georgia on the 147.150 repeater. I regret my comments and apologize to all the instructors and VE's that have and will participate in future classes and test sessions. Also my fellow hams in the area I offer my apoligy. So if any of you are ever in the Atlanta/Cumming Georgia area please jump on the repeater and say hello.
73
KE4QDC
Ferrell
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD8ABJ on July 12, 2004
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I hate to give some people this reality check, but "higher standards" and more difficult testing will not weed out people who are rude or will not accept constructive criticism. Just like having a Ph.D. doesn't automatically mean someone is smart, has common sense, or has a bucketful of intelligence; rather it merely means they know how to study well and apply themselves.
Unless you administer the Myers-Briggs personality test (or other psychological examination) in addition to the testing, you will *ALWAYS* have "bad" people getting into amateur radio. This can be said of any activity there is whether it be hunting, fishing, boating, billiards, amateur radio, or any other activity human beings can participate in. More difficult tests do not defend against bad people, however more difficult testing can very easily also cut out good people from participating.
Just like in every aspect of life and society, there are people who like to cause trouble. There are also people who haven't been instructed in proper or accepted procedures. Instead of giving up on those who don't know how to do things why not show them the right way to do things. If they still don't care to change their operating practices, then perhaps it needs to be mentioned on the air. Embarassment might work if subtle notifications don't. Many people, including myself get considerably defensive if approached in a rude manner. The way you say something is a very important factor in how what you say will be received. If you are talking down to someone, chances are all you'll do is provoke them, and then they'll continue their ways just to spite you. If you can talk to them in a polite way and explain why their procedures are improper, there is a much greater chance that your guidance will be well received.
Personally I won't lose any sleep if someone slips up and says something incorrectly whether it's on the air, an internet forum, in person or any other mode of communication. As long as it's not a habit and providing it's not illegal (swearing, etc) what is the harm in simply letting it slide if it's an obvious slip-up. I am an amateur radio operator now for the first time in my life. In fact this is my first day of being an amateur radio operator, so new in fact that I have yet to try out my new callsign as of the time of writing this. Will I probably screw up once in a while? I'm sure it'll happen. When that happens, hopefully the other operators that are listening are reasonable about it. If someone isn't going to take a hostile tone to me about it, I wouldn't mind a simple statement that something I did wasn't proper right on the air. There is no reason to be offensive to someone right off the bat. If you attempt this tactic, chances are all you will succeed in doing is souring the individual on your advice in the future.
If you are a human, at some point you will make a mistake. I would bet money on it. It's just a fact of life. I would personally like to see a poll of "How many amateur operators have ever done even one thing wrong", with responses being either "I have made a mistake before" or "I have never made a mistake before". My theory is that about 95% will probably say "I have never made a mistake", and about 5% will actually tell the truth and admit making a mistake. If nobody is killed or injured as a result of a mistake, the mistake is not serious enough to rant about.
Personally for a little while before I even took the test, I'd been monitoring the local repeaters to see what the local accepted procedure is. I have only heard people utilizing these machines on very rare occasions. Such conditions have made it difficult for me to determine what local accepted procedures are. Surely I hope that nobody jumps my case if all my T's aren't crossed or I's dotted since despite my best efforts, exposure to local activity has been very rare. I have made sure to read the "new to ham radio" section on this site, and so forth, and I suspect I'm ready to give it a shot. With some polite guidance I suspect I'll be a good amateur operator, just like I was on the CB.
I think the problem with the class that was taught in the initial thread starter post is too much emphasis was given to the test questions and limited theory, and not enough emphasis was given on how to properly operate. Most people will simply make assumptions in what is right and what is not when they have not been given any instruction. Some simply assume there isn't any sort of protocol to follow other than the legal requirements.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make with all of this is that typically the best way to affect change are to set a good example, and to politely point out problems if some are observed (assuming the operator didn't just slip up on accident, and seems to be more of a habit instead), and if you bring someone in your area into the hobby make sure to prepare them properly INCLUDING SHOWING THEM THE OPERATING PROTOCOLS YOU WISH FOR THEM TO PRACTICE.
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by KA8UWR on July 12, 2004
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All the 2 meter activity MUST be dowwn south,I have driven from Akron to California,and as far north as Canada,from what I can tell NOBODY much uses 2 meters,I think this guy is REACHING!! I live in Akron Ohio,where the repeater is on 146.640,I could yell "House On Fire" at noon and not hear a single "Beep" ,if this guy does not like his 2 meter operators,he must be having a Ball listening or trying to use 75 meters at night!! must be the same bunch!!
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AC7KZ on July 12, 2004
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10-4 good buddy, catch ya on the other side, smokey's comming. What channel are ya on.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KF4VGX on July 13, 2004
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Yall ! quit your fussin, excuse me You All , Do the same. Daggum race this hea past weekend done raised the hairs on all our necks. Jus pass me that ther bucket oh chicken .If it ain't got Dale Jr's pic on it give it to kernel Sanders. ;) Run that through a smell checker :)
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WB8JKR on July 13, 2004
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While higher standards MAY not prevent the occasional
moron from showing his/her face, lowering standards
sooner or later ALWAYS results in a decrease of
respect or quality. Its just a fact of life, be
it ham radio or anything else for that matter.
Mark WB8JKR
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 13, 2004
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To KD8ABJ:
No one is worried about the occasional mistakes. We do all make them no matter how long we've been hams.
What does cause a problem are those who chronically use bad operating practice despite the fact that they have received the proper information multiple times. Thank God such people are rare although they seem to congregate in certain areas making the problem look worse than it is.
You are doing the right thing by listening for local customs. However, being in an area of apparently low activity, you may just have to experiment a bit. In general, just announce your call sign. In a conversation, simply use plain English without any jargon. This is acceptable anywhere.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8UZE on July 13, 2004
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To KG6TEW:
It is a shame that you found such an out of date group of teachers. Everywhere I have gone, including the first class I attended and all various activities I have participated in have welcomed me. Granted being the only female in a group is uncomfortable at first that was my own inner feelings and was not due to the attitude of the group.
Hope you find a nice group to join. There are many things that are enhanced by group participation.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KX2S on July 13, 2004
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Lets see from what you stated above we must rename the equipment.
Repeater = Zoopeater.
Now that you are listening to a Zoopeater nothing is wrong. Life is good.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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N8UZE wrote:
"No one is worried about the occasional mistakes. We do all make them no matter how long we've been hams.
What does cause a problem are those who chronically use bad operating practice despite the fact that they have received the proper information multiple times. Thank God such people are rare although they seem to congregate in certain areas making the problem look worse than it is."
Very well said. It's unfortunate that the (arguably) most visible of ham radio's numerous sub-hobbies is the 2M repeater and often they are magnets for the worst behavior.
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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WB8JKR wrote:
"...lowering standards sooner or later ALWAYS results in a decrease of respect or quality."
True enough. There are NO licensing requirements to post on the Internet and we see some pretty lousy quality, and even less respect!
73 Mike N2MG
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by OO1TRK on July 13, 2004
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You know, what I read here is this... If you become a Ham and you do it with Friends, family or loved ones, you must not talk to them in the way you are used to talk to them. Why? Because some Jurassic Ham dinosaur will get upset that you are not using the band the way that they do.
If you are staying within FCC rules and guidelines, you are doing no wrong. If I talk in a way that bothers you and there are hundreds of other places for you to go, then go.
Also, when was the last time any of you who criticize everyone for not following the rules to the letter last broke the speed limit while driving, didn’t stop all the way at a stop sign, cut some one off (careless or reckless driving) didn’t buckle you seatbelt or otherwise broke a highway safety rule. (which btw, is far more dangerous then this mamby/pamby stuff you all are upset about) I mean get a grip, If I am talking to my yl on 2m and she tells me she loves me, I shall tell her that back, sorry y’all are jealous of that. 88’s does not always convey the meaning you want to get across. Where does it say in any rule book, guideline or anywhere else that you cannot say or do what some of you are complaining about.
Cursing, abusing others, causing interference with other qso’s is wrong. If I want to tell a buddy of mine something using a bit of CB slang, SO WHAT! Get a grip on the more important things in life. God I hope I don’t get this nit-picky and grumpy when I get to be an old-ham…
BTW, on another note, License requirements do effect the behavior of those that get into this hobby.. One just has to look back into the early 70’s and before, when you needed a CB license. The airwaves were much cleaner, and more fun. Now there is just a lot of garbage on them along the interstates. I myself am an Owner/Operator out there every day of the week (m-f) and IMO, take away the free ticket and regulate the CB channels again.. Even if you make them take a 10-question test.. Just so an effort has to be made.. This crap will go over to the 2m band if you deregulate and make getting a Tech/General lic all that much simpler.. How long until there is no regulations for a Tech????
The dumbing down does need to stop.. As does all the goofy complaining of the way people speak to people that they know and care about.
And 73’s (only to those whose underwear gets bunched up when you don’t say 73)
Peace and cheers..
Ken
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by KG6TEW on July 13, 2004
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To N8UZE (Dee) - yes, it was too bad I found a group of old cronies. I have to laugh though, when the guys were registering for the class, they were handed papers and such to fill out while these club guys smiled. When I walked in they asked how they could help me. I replied that I was signing up for the class. One fellow's response was "You mean, to study for a ham radio license?" I wanted to reply, "No, I thought this was a sewing class!". I was received in a very different manner. I likely had more education than any of them, especially in the sciences, and I am certain they wouldn't even begin to understand the quantum involved in their hobby. After one session I thanked them for their time and told them I would learn the material on my own. They made me feel unwelcome and they were impatient to answer any questions I had, regardless of the caliber of the question. My husband assured me I didn't need a class and could easily understand the theory and practical aspect on my own. I did.
I know there are elmers (males) that welcome young people, even women, into this hobby. But so much of the negative attitude toward "newbies" (us no-code techs) I am reading in this thread are from the Extras that are males. Granted, ham radio still seems to be a bit of a boys club but that's ok by me. I take exception for those of us new hams that do take the hobby seriously and respect it as it should be. I feel there is a lot of generalizations being made (and I am guilty of making generalitions too) about no-code techs.
But now all of this has become quite redundant. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but change is inevitable whether or not these long-term hams want it. But I believe the ways of the past can both be improved and preserved at the same time. It starts with those who "teach" the courses. Body language says a lot, it was clear it wasn't encouraged to stay in that class.
Regards, KG6TEW
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by KG6TEW on July 13, 2004
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"It's unfortunate that the (arguably) most visible of ham radio's numerous sub-hobbies is the 2M repeater and often they are magnets for the worst behavior."
As quoted from Mike, N2MG, Extra HAI -- hmmm, as if to prove my point about generalizations.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 13, 2004
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To KD8ABJ - awesome reply, oh and I see you are new to ham, as am I. I made a similar reply earlier on. You are obviously intelligent and have a good grasp of human nature.
73, KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by NN6EE on July 13, 2004
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Quote from "001TRK (Ken):
"God I hope I don’t get this nit-picky and grumpy when I get to be an old-ham…"
Ken I can GUARANTEE IT!!!!
HAR HAR!! OOPs! I meant Hi Hi!!!
Jim/ee :-)))
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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KG6TEW wrote:
"As quoted from Mike, N2MG, Extra HAI -- hmmm, as if to prove my point about generalizations."
What are you saying? That because I'm an Extra HAI that I generalize about others? What other attributes of my character can you surmise from my license class?
Phoebe (Friends) said it best: "Hello Pot, I'm Kettle, and you're BLACK!"
However, generalizations are a powerful (and instinctual) method used by humans to assess situations (and one another) when they don't have all the facts. So I don't blame you - it's natural.
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC8VWM on July 13, 2004
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>>> A 30 question multiple choice test does NOT make a good ham operator.<<<
Agreed, however no number of questions in the pool will make a good ham operator!
Amateur Radio testing is for the most part the "starting point" and is not considered the final outcome of an amateur operators on-air operating skill.
A good ham starting out will usually listen first and then "operates by example."
Whenever I hear someone reply with the CB term "Roger" - I usually reply with an apology in a manner that goes something like this;
"I am sorry, did I fail to recongnize another person by the name of "Roger" on frequency that wishes to join in?"
This is usually met by a "quiet pause" and the person I am talking to suddenly refrains from using that term again.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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To KG6TEW:
Do you deny that 2M repeaters are often "magnets for the worst behavior."?
I think I was being pretty nonjudgmental. Why the frown?
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by KG6TEW on July 13, 2004
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Wow, quoting a sit-com, that's deep. My apologies.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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KC8VWM wrote:
>> Whenever I hear someone reply with the CB term >> "Roger"
I didn't know "roger" was a <gasp> CB term? Who says?
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by KG6TEW on July 13, 2004
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-...-.--. .-.-...-.. .. .--...-...-.. --.-.-...
--......-- -.- --.-....-.--.-..-
(hope I did that right...if not, I'm sure I'll hear about it, lol :)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by N2MG on July 13, 2004
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Unfortunately, the way the pages get rendered on eHam, Morse code like that doesn't display very well - everything runs together.
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by AE6IP on July 13, 2004
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"BTW, on another note, License requirements do effect the behavior of those that get into this hobby.. One just has to look back into the early 70’s and before, when you needed a CB license. The airwaves were much cleaner, and more fun."
The problem with this theory is that CB became a mess and *then* the license requirement was removed...
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6IP on July 13, 2004
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"Whenever I hear someone reply with the CB term "Roger""
I didn't know that WW-II Air Force pilots used CBs.
'Roger' is a perfectly acceptable form of positive reply. It has the advantage, in high noise environments, over several of the more common English affirmative replies of not disapearing into the noise.
The only reason to distain its use would be excessive affectation.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by KC8VWM on July 13, 2004
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>> I didn't know "roger" was a <gasp> CB term? Who says?
Mike N2MG <<
uh, Roger?
You are correct. Roger is not a CB term. However it does appear that it was largely adopted by <gasp> CB operators.
The phrase "Roger," meant I understand, and similarly "Out" meant that you were ending the conversation, but why is the term "Roger" used today in radio communications?
The answer is quite simple. Usage of roger in radio transmissions dates to World War II. Roger was the word in the phonetic alphabet that stood for the letter R. Roger was an abbreviation for received, and eventually became radiospeak for OK or I understand.
Modern soldiers are rightly confused by the origin as the roger does not stand for the letter R in the current phonetic alphabet used by the American military, Romeo does.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoopeater
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by K4HSM on July 13, 2004
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There's a lot of problems that aren't secluded to one person, club, group, or government agency.
First off, while it would appear that there should have been some amount of time spent on "courtesy" and "acceptable lingo", my speculation is that the classes were held one night a week over 5 weeks (probably an hour each time) and was spent educating these individuals per the book. If so, there's a lot of territory to cover, and for a 5-hour course (again, being presumptuous, as I haven't read the entire thread all the way through) there would have been little time to cover what is not discussed in the question pool.
I took my sister-in-law to an all-day class which was an 8-hour cram session and exam session the next day. In that one 8-hour session, there still was some material not covered. As a side note, the hams from that class (in the KF4A** issuances) are STILL talking like 11 meters. Not my sister-in-law, of course... ;-) - then again, she hasn't keyed up a ham radio in 3 years...
I digress, In defense of the composer, there may not have been time to discuss these nuances, and who honestly thinks about it UNTIL something like this happens.
Now, the damage is done, what to do? Well, invite the "alumni" to an event, such as a club meeting or next year's Field Day, and talk with them about how they should behave. Have a "special event" and break them in. You should have their callsigns, send them an invitation...
BUT...keep in mind, to rip an old saying, one person's politeness may be another's insult. You're dealing with a broad issue that no rules can truly define. Someone (as shown already) takes "73's" as an insult instead of "73".
Someone may not like one thing when another says it's perfectly acceptable. I've been chewed out for saying that "my personal" was Greg instead of "my name". I've heard the riot act over keying up and saying "K4HSM monitoring" instead of "K4HSM listening" or just "K4HSM". Arguments have been started over saying "roger" instead of "QSL" and then saying "QSL" instead of "copy". It goes on and on. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...
I don't think there is any set standard that anyone can go by for how they conduct themselves, other than refraining from "10" codes and using "handles". If I'm not mistaken, Part 97 does not specify even the refraining from using "10" codes. About the only thing Part 97 covers is QRMing, cussing, and business practices. If this is going on on the repeater, then there should definitely be a stop to that.
My best advice is to talk to the repeater owner(s) and trustee(s) and let them deal with the "zoopeater" in (hopefully) and more civilized and diplomatic manner.
With that, 73's...err...73...err...QRT...err...G'bye...
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by W0FMS on July 13, 2004
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Wow, people by you actually USE your 2m repeater?
I for one have lived in 4 different Midwestern states and see no substantial difference in repeater traffic from 1987 to present. Except the repeaters were busier in '87.
Personally I'm glad to have ex-CBers, storm chasers, etc. who I consider "secondary" hams (i.e. some other hobby brought them in, like storm chasing..) as it makes the hobby that much more interesting.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KE4ZHN on July 13, 2004
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Why wont the control operator of this machine shut it down? If its becoming a circus of illegal activity...it by law should be shut down. If no rules are being broken by these "cb`ers" then Im afraid you either have to listen to it, or spin the vfo. In the 5 weeks of training...werent these new hams taught on air protocol? My guess is that the elmers simply taught them enough to pass the test and nothing about on air procedures. And if thats not the case, then perhaps some on air elmering would be in order? Not in a hostile confrontational manner, that will only make things worse...but in a friendly sort of way.
You will always have the types who will do as they please no matter how you try to elmer them, but this isnt true for all people. Many times I have heard 20 wpm extra`s jamming and acting like a jackass on the air, firing up 1 kc away from ongoing qso`s you name it. Your always going to get a few rotten apples in the barrel. But this is not to say that you wont help some of them to become good amateurs if you take the time to teach them. Running away from it only encourages more to join their tyrade and make that repeater unusable.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG4YJR on July 13, 2004
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I said "88" to my wife yesterday on the radio. I'll bet that made somebody's blood pressure go up.
Dave
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by GUEST210 on July 13, 2004
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First of all , the reason i didnt use my call sign is because i know some of you guys and i dont want my opinion held against me.
I have been a ham for four years now. I am a no code tech. I have tried to pass the code test several times but have not been able to pass it yet. What really burns me up is that some of the people that post comments on here are the same ones you can here on the hf freqs. showing the asses! how many no code techs. do you hear on 80m?
I love this hobbie and someday i will pass my code test, but the more i read articles on this web site just about makes me not want to have anything to do with ham radio..
Instead of bitching about how eveerybody else operates and how youo know so much more than the no code tech. why dont you try to help the large majority of us out here that want to make this a great hobbie..
butt i guess as long as there are some of you (you know who you are) ands most likely bash me with their post this hobbie will continue to srink. and that my friends is SAD!!!!!!!!
73,
Peace
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by GUEST210 on July 13, 2004
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First of all , the reason i didnt use my call sign is because i know some of you guys and i dont want my opinion held against me.
I have been a ham for four years now. I am a no code tech. I have tried to pass the code test several times but have not been able to pass it yet. What really burns me up is that some of the people that post comments on here are the same ones you can here on the hf freqs. showing the asses! how many no code techs. do you hear on 80m?
I love this hobbie and someday i will pass my code test, but the more i read articles on this web site just about makes me not want to have anything to do with ham radio..
Instead of bitching about how eveerybody else operates and how youo know so much more than the no code tech. why dont you try to help the large majority of us out here that want to make this a great hobbie..
butt i guess as long as there are some of you (you know who you are) and are most likely bash me with their post. this hobbie will continue to shrink. and that my friends is SAD!!!!!!!!
73,
Peace
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by OO1TRK on July 13, 2004
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Dave... errr, KG4YJR
Probably your wife, tell her how you really feel next time ' )
I am glad in my area (LV PA) the folks are much less into nit-picking, and much more into just qso. Not much here in repeater use, just in the am.. Bye honey, cu, have a nice day and all that, much more relaxed.. 'How have you been, copy, roger, yup, not bloody well likely' are all things you hear on the repeater (146.940)..
Well
10-4, copy that,hand....
Ummmm 73 Ken
(sorry, thought I was at the wheel of my semi, cb in hand.. Then I saw the keyboard..... God I am so confused..) ;)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by EFH777 on July 13, 2004
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Writing as new KG6VQE, I will tell you, that people still play games. I feel a real bond with my fellow hams...but listening on a So. Cal net last night, I felt as if I was on CB. Some idiot was disrupting the messages, overplaying some "patriotic" recording, and basically being a pain the the rear. This has been going on a long time now...
People are the same. Just because someone studies radio theory, and some basic rules and regs, doesn't make them any less moronic. I like Ham Radio because it allows me to do so many things...If I like CW, I can transmit HF. 2Meter, 440, 1.2, RTTY, SSB, FM. That is what I like.
I feel that this is the exception, not the norm. Most people who are outside the hobby don't understand the bond that keeps us together. Go to a field day, and you will see like minded people, pulling together for a common goal.
So I am sad to say, that if you think you are getting away from morons, you may not be...just most people care enough not to step on others...Don't let a few bad apples spoil your fun.
(Studying for my General, so I am convinced there is good in the world)
Eric
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 13, 2004
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We've got problems with our 2 meter repeater here too. Seems someone either accidentally or intentionally set up a packet transmitter on the repeater input. Now, tracking those bursts is difficult for even experienced RDF fans. AND, since packet activity, at least in this area, is nil, finding someone with the equipment to decode the bursts is proving to be difficult.
PHILIP
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6IP on July 14, 2004
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"since packet activity, at least in this area, is nil, finding someone with the equipment to decode the bursts is proving to be difficult."
sorry to hear you don't have any hams with PCs in your neck of the woods. That's gotta suck.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KU4UV on July 14, 2004
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What's almost as bad as the 10-4 Good Buddy crowd is these geeks on the local repeater here in Lexington that have the skywarn nets every time the sky turns cloudy who want to play weatherman or storm patrol. There is a net here in town evewry Sunday night full of a bunch of geeks who all they want to talk about is how many tubes transceiver XYZ had back in 1963 and what was the plate voltage of transceiver XYZ, etc. It's enough to bore a man to tears. And people wonder why more young people aren't interested in amateur radio. Thank God our main local repeater isn't on Echolink for all the world to hear these geeks!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 14, 2004
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I'm about the only one in the metro area running any digital modes here, ie RTTY, PSK31, SSTV, etc., on HF, but not packet. Plenty of PCs to go around with high speed connections, but like I said, nil interest in that mode here.
The software for Hamscope with the Packet plug in seems buggy. Two of us last night were loading it while coordinating on two meters, in an attempt to at least receive the ID, if there is one.
I spoke prematurely on the RDF issue. Our ever capable trustee got within blocks of it last night before retiring. I expect today he'll locate the transmitter and I'll pass the results on of his search.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KB3KAQ on July 14, 2004
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all this talk of jargon, operating like a CB'er, and the "cell phone honeys" begs the question: what is the purpose of; repeaters, and a larger extent, amateur radio. if my wife and i wish to connect using a simplex freq or a repeater, doesn't our FCC license allow that.
amateur radio is a hobby - to be approached by the operator however they wish as long as they are in within the rules, right?
according to the article author, this is not the case. i'm not in the military, nor am i a law enforcement officer. i use repeaters to get info on traffic conditions, to keep in contact with local hams, and to pass the time while driving. i have also used the repeaters during ARES activations and practice as well as for public service events.
as for the dumbing down, i know the theory, i passed the tests. i don't recall there ever being a question regarding proper conversation and acceptable language (beyond those against profanity and political discussions with foreign stations) on an FCC exam.
seems like an elitist attitude - talk like we do. it's my hobby too, right?
-steve
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KI4BDS on July 14, 2004
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HHHHMMMMMMMMMM Im from the US,born here, raised here. I don't speak the KINGS English. However I have been told I hash the Queens English. 147.300 Bluemont Va repeater is a shining example of HAMs going bad. I have been told, by the repeaters moderator; that there is nothing in the FCC regs that say you have to take turns. They also have a thing calleD Vortex of Chaos and they all get on and just talk whenever they want at night. So: after having voiced my opinion, Quit talking to the majority of them. I even stated they sounded like a bunch of Chanel 19 truckdrivers looking for lot lizards but it didnt sink in at all. Karl A former TRUCK owner operator, CB er and Ham
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4HSM on July 14, 2004
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I remember a few months back that the FCC's position was basically to leave it to the trustees. The FCC was more concerned with HF jamming rather than repeater jamming, since that can be curbed with a flip of a switch.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N2MG on July 14, 2004
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'KOE wrote:
> I spoke prematurely on the RDF issue. Our ever
> capable trustee got within blocks of it last
> night before retiring. I expect today he'll
> locate the transmitter and I'll pass the
> results on of his search.
Please let us know what/whom you find! I love a car wreck ;-)
Mike N2MG
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by NN6EE on July 14, 2004
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This thread proves everything about how HUMAN-NATURE can't be changed, and why should it be anyway!
The "No-Code Tech" is at the very bottom of the "Food-Chain" because THEY "CHOSE" NOT TO GO THE EXTRA mile to up-grade easy as that!!! Besides even if they (meaning No-Code Techs) know all the theory under-the-Sun if the LICENSING structure continues in it's present form, for however long, THEY have to either go the extra distance to up-grade or QUIT THEIR damn bitch'n!!!
Jim/ee
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by KA4KOE on July 14, 2004
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Dear MH:
Glad you're enjoying yourself. After all, its only radio.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA2JJH on July 14, 2004
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Philip, We had some LID that hated a NYC repeater so much, he buried the TX with a car batt.
It took months to find the thing in Central Park!
Best of luck with catching you packet pouching pest!
How close is it to FLET-C?
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KA4KOE on July 14, 2004
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You can drive to FLETC from here in about 1:15. Not a bad drive at all. If you're down there, maybe Sheri and I will drive down, and you can treat us to dinner at Delaney's Bistro on St. Simons Island, Frederica Road.
Just kidding.
Philip
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K8OT on July 14, 2004
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H'MM about 40 years we buried a 100 mw xmtr with a lantern battery in the weeds close to a lid CBer seems all he had was a carrier on one of the favrite freqs. LOL(^_^)
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KF4VGX on July 15, 2004
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by KC5SAS ,
This thread has become a zoo.
Ham Radio is a ZOO . :)
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4SFC on July 15, 2004
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It may be a "Zoo", but considering the number of comments in such a short period of time, SOMEONE AT THE ARRL should be taking note. There must be twenty 2 meter repeaters in the Louisville KY area, and you're lucky if you can get a reply on any of them! Why? you ask! It's the "ATTITUDE" of a large percentage of the new hams. I estimate at least 70 percent have the attitude; "I'm going to do whatever I want to, and you're "Gentlemans Agreements" can go to blazes. It's the same on HF too, just the percentage is a little lower. REFUSE to observe call frequencies for phone and CW. Ignore people that tell you to please move, you're splattering existing QSO's. AND ABSOLUTELY NO ONE OBSERVES KEEPING POWER TO LOWEST LEVEL NEEDED! This is the most laughable rule of all. I estimate ninety-nine percent that have linear amplifiers use them in every QSO. I encountered two hams in the same town on 17M in QSO, both using 1,000 watts. I mentioned the "lowest power needed" rule and got cussed out. They had already indicated they were only one mile apart. Yes I'm disgusted, I have too much money and too much effort in ham radio to quit. However, I WILL NOT ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO GET IN THIS MESS! When I got in it was a "SERVICE". Now it's just a "HOBBY".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KF4RNF on July 15, 2004
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The problem is simple Ferrell: You guys didn't properly elmer these new hams-to-be. Hams are all gung-ho to teach classes, but then leave out the basics of being a ham. It's like Driver's Ed without ever getting behind the wheel of a car.
Even then, unless a new ham has an elmer they can call upon, and rely on, odds are the CB-factor will be right up front on the air.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by K4CDK on July 15, 2004
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I live close enough to the repeater in question, in fact have talked with serveral operators on it. Never have I heard the problem referred to. Did you elmer the new operators on the protocal that is normally used on repeaters. Did you tell the new operators what was expected of them. In fact as I typed this, I was momnitoring the repeater in question....
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 15, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 12, 2004
"I made several posts on July 11, so this reply in only valid if you have read them...many of you make me feel as though I should be ashamed I am a no-code tech. "
NO!!
Please do not be ashamed of that.
That's just the way it is now - nothing you can do about it.
I am an Old Timer. Been around over 25 years. True, I wish they had kept the code requirements as they were, but I certainly can't hold the lack them against folks like yourself.
What I do hold against some operators, is poor operating habits and lack of respect for our long standing traditions and methods.
You seem to be interested in learning about these. After some of the conversation here, that makes you seem like a breath of fresh air.
"We all have to start somewhere. If we make mistakes we expect to be "elmered" (I prefer the word mentored). "
See? >g< Thank you for assimilating our jargon.
"Everyone makes mistakes, "
I remember when I did it too! I think it was in '81.
:)
"even the most experienced folks in their professions or hobbies. I was really excited when I read, and studied, ARRL's training book for my no-code tech license."
It is most encouraging to see new comers use words like
'excited'.
" I know I didn't need to actually study the book, but I spent months, after getting my work done each night, studying for my ham radio license. I actually DID all the math (that bit was easy) and I even built coaxle components, put electronic parts together, read oscilliscopes, etc. When I EARNED my license I was excited and proud. But many of you make me feel ashamed."
I think you are a bit like the youngster learning to swim, by being thrown in the deep end of the pool.
You've jumped right into the thick of it here!
Please remember that these posts are NOT ham radio. Just internet messages, about which the topic is (hopefully) ham radio.
Further, remember the sampling you are dealing with here vs. all of ham radio is very small.
"I feel the pressure to quickly learn CW (which I am doing now) so I can upgrade my license"
Upgrading is a Good Thing.
"and rid myself of the dreaded 2x3 call sign."
Dreaded?
nah....
Better than no callsign at all, right?
Advice: When you upgrade, if you are ever going to consider changing your call, do it as soon as possible.
The longer you keep your call, the more it becomes like your name, and you will find it harder to bring yourself to ever change it.
"I am educated, driven, and respectful of
ham's past history (though I still am learning about it). But hey, thanks for making me feel as though I don't belong in your world. "
If somebody makes you feel that way, I doubt it is your fault.
"To those who are supportive of us "newbies", my sincerest apologies for this post - it was not directed at you. "
Be sure to check out the other areas available here on eHam. There is a whole lot of non-controversial good stuff to be found here!
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KC8VWM on July 15, 2004
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>> When I EARNED my license I was excited and proud. <<
I have to admit that this beats memorizing the answers in the question pool.
Sometimes I find it frustrating to conduct discussions with fellow Amateurs on local repeaters about technical aspects of amateur radio.
Certainly, any discussion about NPN or PNP transitors, power supply circuits, triodes, tetrodes or other discussion other than "hows mary doing today?" is probobly out of the question.
This is clear evidence that some people only memorized the question pool answers to pass the test.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 15, 2004
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To WILLY: Again, thanks for your sincere support. I have ordered ARRL's book, The ARRL General Class License Manual, so I can begin to study (not memorize a pool of questions) for an upgraded license. It also provides support for learning CW. I plan to purchase CDs and such to help with that. Learning a new language was never easy for me and CW is certainly a new language. I have an electronic keyer so after I get the book, I am set to begin the process to upgrade. It will take me some time, I am sure, because school starts on the 16th of August and work tends to slow down my extra-curricular endeavors. But I will do it.
It is people like you that encourage me and make me want to learn more. And you are right, this forum doesn't represent ham radio and I need to remember that; this is an internet gig. Truly, Willy, I need to meet hams like yourself locally so that I can practice hands-on and dive into the real guts of it all as I learn. I'm sure they are out here somewhere! I have no doubt you are a great elmer; you are a true credit to this hoddy :)
73, KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 16, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 15, 2004
"I have ordered ARRL's book, The ARRL General Class License Manual, so I can begin to study (not memorize a pool of questions) for an upgraded license. "
Excellent.
"It also provides support for learning CW. I plan to purchase CDs and such to help with that."
Some thoughts on learning CW, fwiw:
Figure out your own time limit. If you stay at it for too long, it becomes non-productive, and might become frustrating. After you get warmed up, you quickly peak, and slowly go down hill from there. Eventually you'll find yourself concentrating on concentrating, instead of listening.
A good starting point is no longer than 30 minutes per day. Better might be 2 sessions of 15 minutes each.
But you'll figure out what works best for you.
Has anybody commented to you on how long it should take the average person to get to 5 wpm?
This could be debated forever, but set your sights one month. Some can do it much sooner, some take a little longer. Many, many people have done it in about a month though.
Here's a comment that is likely to start flames: Without having done any kind of scientific anaylsis, sometimes it seems like women catch on faster than men.
Regarding CDs for code practice: can't comment. Never had them. They didn't exist back then.
But don't forget about searching the web for other code practice resources too. What one person likes, another doesn't. Try several.
"Learning a new language was never easy for me and CW is certainly a new language. "
Yes, although some others compare it to learning music.
I suppose music is a type of new language too though.
These people don't hear individual letters - they hear the rhythm and thus hear whole words. I think this comes later - don't worry about it now. More for when you get up over 20 wpm. I've only been told this - I surely cannot do it.
"I have an electronic keyer so after I get the book, I am set to begin the process to upgrade."
Some will advise you to learn with a straight key first. I cannot say which is best. Maybe you'll find yourself a CW Elmer.
"It will take me some time, I am sure, because school starts on the 16th of August"
Convenient coincidence? One month away. >g<
"and work tends to slow down my extra-curricular endeavors. But I will do it. "
Hang in there.
Know that most hams reading what you write will like your attitude of perseverance.
"It is people like you that encourage me and make me want to learn more. And you are right, this forum doesn't represent ham radio and I need to remember that;"
In a way, it does. In another way it does not.
" this is an internet gig. "
This does hit the nail on the head though.
"Truly, Willy, I need to meet hams like yourself locally so that I can practice hands-on and dive into the real guts of it all as I learn. I'm sure they are out here somewhere! "
Just like here, you'll meet good ones and not so good ones. Weed them out to suit yourself, and you'll be fine. Just don't give up too soon. I hope you are lucky and meet some nice people first. I guess I was lucky, because I did.
"I have no doubt you are a great elmer;"
I'm more of a good cheerleader, aren't I?
" you are a true credit to this hoddy :) "
hoddy?
After you upgrade, be wary of making CW contacts with hams that have the letter "b" in their callsigns. >g<
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 16, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 15, 2004
...
"It also provides support for learning CW. I plan to purchase CDs and such to help with that. Learning a
new language was never easy for me and CW is certainly a new language. "
Assuming you'll have to wait for your CDs of choice to arrive via the mail, here are a couple other options to explore.
Free Windows software can be downloaded here:
http://www.g4fon.co.uk/
You can read the reviews about it at:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2184
Also check here on eHam,
under Product Reviews->Ham Software - Other.
Other software packages reviewed there.
Next, check the "Forums" here on eHam if you have not already discovered them. There are many, divided by topic.
Two that you may be interested in would be CW and Elmers. I think you might find some interesting reading there, and definitely less controversy than here.
http://www.eham.net/forums/CW/1848 is one example.
http://www.eham.net/forums/CW/595 and here.
http://www.eham.net/forums/CW/508 and here.
You get the idea, by now. Lots to read and consider.
Try to save some time to practice CW though!
Wishing you a speedy upgrade. 73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 16, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 15, 2004
...
" It also provides support for learning CW. I plan to purchase CDs and such to help with that. Learning a
new language was never easy for me and CW is certainly a new language. "
Assuming you will have to wait for your CDs of choice to arrive by the mail, here are some more options to explore now.
http://www.g4fon.co.uk/
Free software may be downloaded here.
You can read comments and reviews on it at:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2184
More CW software reviews can be found at:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/28
Also, visit:
http://www.eham.net/forums/
and see the CW and Elmers forums. Much of interest to read there, and definitely less controversial than here. Try search them on the word "trainer".
http://www.eham.net/forums/CW/508 is one.
http://www.eham.net/forums/CW/595 is another.
You get the idea. Lots to read and look over.
Please try to save some time for practicing CW!
Wishing you a speedy upgrade. 73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 16, 2004
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From Willy:
"After you upgrade, be wary of making CW contacts with hams that have the letter "b" in their callsigns"
Why do I not understand this? LOL. I don't get it.
Thanks for the info about CW practice and websites. I wrote it all down. My husband said what you did about advanced CW hams hearing patterns (words) and not letters. He never got past 5 wpm but he said he had heard the same thing about the more advanced people. I heard that women tend to learn CW more esily than men too. I think this is true because women are more language oriented. Sadly, I got the math, and not the language, brain. I am willing to bet I will find it an exercise in frustration rather than not. But I don't give up easily. My husband thinks I shouldn't bother with it all because HF, he said, takes heaps of time and money putting together a station and making contacts. I know the school year isn't appropriate for such a thing but I do have summers free. He suggested if I "go for it" then that might be enough to get him rolling again. He gave it up 14 years ago; he uses UFH and VHF only. But he wasn't interested in building a better repeater either until I got my license. My approach will have to be, from the standpoint of learning CW, as something fun, not a necessity. If I think of it as fun then I am more likely to stay with it.
Oh and, elmer versus cheerleader, sometimes they gotta be the same, you know? As a teacher I have to make it fun for the kids and I have to cheer them on, or they lose interest. I set the mood. The same is true with ham elmers. Some of these folks would do little more than turn a newbie away. But others, such as yourself, have the opposite effect.
Again, thanks for all of your welcomed advice! Please visit my web page if you have a chance. :)
73 encore, KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by N8CPA on July 16, 2004
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TEW, think of code as monotone music with an emphasis on rhythm. A dot is an eighth note, a dash is a dotted quarter note. The spaces are rests in similar proportion.
You will start slow, but when you feel yourself learning it, the learning itself will speed up. Concentrate and practice, practice, practice=Enjoy.
Good luck!
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 16, 2004
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To KC8VWM:
Although discussions of bipolar transistors and the like are interesting, I don't even think I want to hear about them each time I link onto a repeater. I think this is why amateur radio clubs are important, so that interested folks can meet face to face and discuss such things as well as do "hands on" type activities with electronics. I have heard conversations on repeaters about such "stuff" and I have learned a lot from listening and participating in these conversations. But people use ham radio for other interests as well, including SAR, ARES, astronomy, etc. I don't want to hear about "how Mary is doing" much either, truthfully. But it isn't completely inappropriate. I like listening to the various NETs because I learn tons of stuff from electronics to SAR. Admittedly I get annoyed when two or more old guys get on a repeater and start cackling about their wives, their illnesses, and their daily [boring] lives (I recently heard two guys spending at least 20 minutes on a repeater trying to figure out where they should meet for lunch! Spare us please!). But I have the choice to switch frequencies and I do.
So, I agree with you for the most part but I don't think I want to hear the same technical jargon 24/7 on a repeater. Just my opinion.
73
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 16, 2004
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To N8CPA:
Ummmm, half note? quarter note? LOL, when I sang for the 6th grade church choir a million years ago, I was politely asked to "pretend to sing". Was I to take a hint? Oh yeah! But thank you for this because I understand the point you are making. I don't have an ear for music. I think of CW rather like learning binary - oh and wasn't THAT fun? Sheesh! My husband plays sax and clarinet, I will tell him what you told me and I am certain he will be able to make me understand what you mean using the instruments - good idea! :)
73! KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 16, 2004
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LOL@me, I meant "eighth note" not "half note"! >g<
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD5UZA on July 16, 2004
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You old timers will be the death of ham radio!! Every day I see stuff like this It makes me sick. We have a group of people around here "a club" that acts the same way to new guys. Frankley they are A**HOLES!! They dont want them in the club or on the repeater. And they will not talk to them. We had a new guy just come over from CB just to be turned off by these local jerks and gave up on radio all together. This guy was wanting to get away from the trash and got rite back in it. You people need to get off your high horse and stop thinking your better then everybody else. Its to easy for people to get cell phones, computers,etc... Radio is no longer the best way to talk. It can be hard and expensive to get started and most people just dont bother. You need to be looking at CBrs for the future. These people have enough intrest in radio to use them. When i try to get my friends into radio they just ask why, when all you have to do is pick up a cell or send a email. And most CBrs do listen and dont want anything to do with the nerds like me that are on the air. I do agree that we need to teach people how to operate smoothley but not try to tell them what they can and cannot talk about. "as long as its kept clean" If you dont like it, deal with it. And thank god there are people even on the radio. 73 KD5UZA "A new and not so impressed ham"
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WB7CQK on July 16, 2004
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Let me take a few keystrokes to set some of the record straight regarding Ferrell's article. Trust me, this is the Readers' Digest version:
The majority of the users of the subject repeater (and it is quite actively used) belong to the county's ARES group. We take that membership and the use of the repeater quite seriously. We have formal memorandums of understanding with most of the county's served agencies. It is a well-respected group.
The repeater trustees/owners are extremely dilligent with regards to unlawful activity; that which has occured has been, in general, accidental.
Yes, we do have a very few repeater users who are discourteous. They are in the vast minority and we are working as individuals and as a group to "bring them into the fold." Their actions are not deliberate, to the best of my observations.
I have edited much out of this response. If you would like to see the whole mess, send me an email at WB7CQK@arrl.net.
72 (yup ... I enjoy QRP work, too!) de Dave,
WB7CQK
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on July 17, 2004
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Ever think you guys were just crappy teachers...I mean .. 5 weeks .. what the heck were you teaching that took 5 weeks... maybe thats why they all went crazy...
just kidding...
LOL
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Crazy hams
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by KA4KOE on July 17, 2004
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Nah, its just the diet us Georgian radio hams observe...
Grits
Fried catfish fingers from a little place just outside of Moody AFB
pickles
hush puppies and corn dodgers
Bud Light
Corn likker
Possum patties
Neck bones
Pigs feet
Pickled eggs
And velvet cake for dessert
Yummmmm. Teeeen FO' Good BUDDY!!!!
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA2JJH on July 17, 2004
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Ferrel, at least you tried. Back in my day ham radio clubs were cool. This is way before PC's and a DARPA project got out of control creating the internet!
The NOVICE course I took was given at the Hall of Science Radio Club in NYC.
The course was 12 weeks. We had to do 5 WPM CW.
I hung around the club because I did not have a good station.
Yup, I got all sortsa Lip, from the O.T's. That made me want to get my EXTRA real fast. Most of the O.T.'s were ADVANCED. I got no more lip after EARNING my 20WPM
extra.
You tried your best I am sure. The way the license structure is today, there is NO incentive to be with other more experienced hams. No goals,no need to go beyond a NCT. No help after they pass. MANY DO NOT want to be helped or told what to do.
Sure we had our share of HAM jammers. The old WR2AHU
club had to DF them all. The four that were caught were banned from the repeater. Three of them changed their ways, I think. However one dude would go CQ CQ CQ 2M on the input of the repeater with his call!
I guess it was grey area law. He got tired after a few months.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by PHINEAS on July 17, 2004
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Is this guy from QRZ or what?
Troll Alert Troll Alert.
Frankly I would rather have usage than none. But that situation is the Elmers fault. It is also the fault of the ham community as a whole.
Simple solution. All of you hotshot radio operators that dont like what is going on with new hams on 2 meters, why not use 900, 220, or 6 meters, or may be even the bad word "SIMPLEX" or "SSB" or "CW". Chances that a new CB/ham operator will spend the time or the money to do any of those bands or modes are slim. Old timers, why not be more of an example. If some 100 Year old fart can tie up a repeater talking about foot corns, why cant a new ham say 10-4 on 2 meters? what is the difference?
Phineas
K0KMA
CB/HAM :P
... -.-
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 17, 2004
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by KG6TEW on July 16, 2004
"Thanks for the info about CW practice and websites. I wrote it all down."
There is another article going now, and the topic is Learning the Code. I see you found it - I saw your post there.
Glad you found it.
As with any of this stuff, don't take any one post to be the truth set in stone. Just try to glean something out of it that works for you.
Also, please note that WB2WIK is a frequent poster here. I've read many of his posts. It doesn't take long to realize that he is one of the ones that knows what he is talking about. Same goes for W5HTW. Keep an eye out for them - they are good - you'll see."
...
"I am willing to bet I will find it an exercise in frustration rather than not. "
I doubt it. It is only 5 wpm.
Unless, like WB2WIK said, it is because somebody told you it is hard.
...
"My husband thinks I shouldn't bother with it all because HF, he said, takes heaps of time and money putting together a station and making contacts. "
Other way around. Get the license first, then worry about what to do with it. If nothing else, you can keep it for 20 years until you have more time and money. But at least you got that license! It might be easier now too - while your interest level is high.
The amount of time and money you put into it now is up to you, and to what you can afford.
...
" He suggested if I "go for it" then that might be enough to get him rolling again. "
Good.
...
"My approach will have to be, from the standpoint of learning CW, as something fun, not a necessity."
Correct.
Each little increment in speed becomes a small victory.
...
"Some of these folks would do little more than turn a newbie away. "
Some do not intend to be unpleasant. It just comes out that way. I've seen that, or what looks like it, several times.
Others however, do intend to be nasty. It is not hard to spot. If I choose to reply to one of them, I'm quite capable of not being quite so charming. >g<
How many letters did you learn since yesterday?
73
Please visit my web page if you
have a chance. :)
73 encore, KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KG6TEW on July 17, 2004
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WILLY: N8CPA has used the idea of music to help me make connections. It is actually helpful and I am NOT a musician. Beethoven's Fifth, for example. I NEVER related the V for Roman numeral 5 and the "Victory" in this piece. And yes, I recognize the di di di da in that ( . . . - , so suffice it to say, I have V down now too. N8CPA said to think of the di as eighth notes and the da as a quarter note. I get this. He did something in his QRZ profile which made sense. He wrote "pounding brass still kicks .- ... ... " so when code is mixed with alpha content, in context, it really works.
And, as you have seen, I found the forum about learning code. I am actually quite excited to learn it now. I did believe, because of what so many people say about code being hard, that it would be. It doesn't seem so bad now, at all. Steve (WB2WIK) was quite nice to spend the time writing out that information about learning code. That he took time to do that, for those of wanting to learn, was really very considerate.
Cheers! :) KG6TEW
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WILLY on July 17, 2004
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KG6TEW :
I hope your enthusiasm is contagious.
Enjoy the journey!
73
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KB9SJZ on July 17, 2004
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My comment on this is where is the coordintor of the repeater. He is the one that is held in care of the repeater and anything that goes on the air. I know that we can't be around 24/7 but guess what when not able to monitor use a tape recorder, it works wonders for cracking down on CBers, and if they don't like you correcting the problem of CB slang too bad. It was your repeater first, and in my case I am a owner and coordintor of a repeater, if anyone get on my repeater acting like this CB the plug will be pulled. Maybe they should have to retake the test again, seems like they missed something in the questions about FCC rules. My thought is this "If we let amateur radio turn into a CB it will, and the FCC will take it away from us and give 2 meters to the CBers, so don't back down and give in by moving to other Freqs on the air waves....stand firm".
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD7KLQ on July 18, 2004
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HEE HEE!!! Pretty soon there will be a "Jerry Springer Show" conducted on the repeaters. Seriously though, I am one of the younger people that have joined the hobby, I am 22 now, I was 19 when I first joined, and I must say that WHILE I was becoming a ham, my mind-set was this "Why do I have to learn all this stuff just to get a piece a paper that says I can operate?" As I have become more experienced, I am thankful that the tests were as difficult as they were, and that I had to learn morse code. I thought I would HATE morse code as I was learning it, but AFTER I learned it, one day it hit me that CW is actually fun, and I have been practicing it ever since. I agree with most ya'll too that the tests should NOT become easier, especially for the HF bands. I am studying to get my extra class license now, and I am stuggling to learn all the stuff, but I know I will be much better off in the end for having gone through it. 73's
KD7KLQ
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AB8RU on July 18, 2004
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I am a Volunteer Examiner does not mean I have given up correcting tests and as an Extra I look at as Extra effort to help the newbies, well depending on the Trustees if they see inappropiate activity, they will get on their repeater and mention that the line is being crossed and if not Beep Beep Beep Beep Voice comes on Repeater OFF ! suddenly there is silence after Joe Blabbermouth makes the Purple Crystal, and there used to be people in our area used to get a Purple Crystal Mailed to them for being a Person tieing up the repeater, If I wanted to talk to my XYL , we have a Cell Phone and being we have 1,000 Mobile 2 Mobile Minutes monthly we can never seem to get that far talking to each other.
If there is an Emergency Forget using the Autopatch I use my Cell Phone, by the way FREE Calls under 1994 rules of a no service cell phone to dial 911 as long as a a signal is there, I used a cell phone of some sort since 1996.
I use more common sense not going on the Air trying to be a Howard Stern Wannabe, of course you wonder why some guys have their jollies mag under the seat or stuff them into a trash can in a public place. maybe afraid of being arrested for indecency.
I'll get off my soap box for now ! Thank You
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD7CJO on July 19, 2004
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Hi All, Not everone belongs on the air. We have had problems here(south Wyo.) with experenced ops on repeaters doing things like giving "smokey bear" reports and such. However, after reexplaning the standards of ham radio to them the problems have stopped. Most of our ops, here anyway are good and proficent and do not couse much trouble. I would like ot think that this is most of us.(hams) However, we need to keep in mind that there are nitwits in ANY group.(ham radio included) If we keep lower standards then this well happen, however what is the "correct standard"? Is it a degree in ethics and engeineering? Or is it just a bunch of fun-loving people that just happen to have a common interest.(communicating and radio) If someone breaks the rules there are ways of dealing with them such as turning them in, blocking from repeater useage, ect. At some point these folks are most likely going to make a big mistake and get cought anyway or they will offend too meny people and no one will talk to them and they`ll disappear. Some of these folks really do get off on cousing trouble, but some are just misinformed. This is where experence, example, and patience are your best assets. Lead by example, don`t become one! Good dx to all. de kd7cjo in Wyoming
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6IP on July 19, 2004
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Um, there's nothing against FCC regulations about "smokey bear" reports, per se.
And there's been a few times I've asked where the nearest highway patrol officer was because I needed to get in touch with him.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by AE6GS on July 19, 2004
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I read these postings with considerable interest; I'm always fascinated by what people consider problems. It's abundantly clear that all those who are on complaining about one "problem" are actually propagating another.
E.G: how many of the folks who complain about how their local repeater is getting "trashed" are the ones who would never answer my calls when I was a new ham? Were they the ones who wouldn't let me break into a net or give me a signal report when I was setting up my station?
Further questions: how many of the folks who complain about bad operating practice are the ones who hold endless ragchewing nets in which the conversation moves from operator to operator with so little time between that no one can break in and join? Don't you want new hams to join the net? Hmmmm..
I'll tell you something interesting... when I was a new ham some years back, I got myself a VX-5 and programmed in a BUNCH of the local repeaters (San Jose, CA) so I could scan them for activity. I mostly put in the local open repeaters, but I threw in a few private (closed) repeaters as well just to listen in. When I do a scan of the repeater frequencies, I almost always hear approximately the same thing: NOTHING on 95% of the repeaters, and only occasional conversations on 146.52 simplex. I cannot remember EVER hearing ANYONE on ANY of the local closed repeaters (except the CALNET repeater).
We occasionally have new hams that operate poorly on simplex and repeaters, but the more pervasive problem we have is a few (maybe only one) intentional jammers who occasionally make the few regularly-used local repeaters unusable, which is REALLY annoying.
On one of our local repeaters, named "Charlie", 147.855, -, PL 100, we try to take special pains to attract and mentor new hams and welcome into "the fold" of ham radio. You will hear good operators and not-so-good ones (that AE6GS guy, for instance), folks in their teens and in their 80s, and folks who have been hams for 40 years and who have been hams for a month or less, and we all get along, in general, pretty well.
The point is that you will hear them, unlike the vast majority of repeaters out there that are silent most of the time.
Silence is the true death of ham radio - I'd rather hear a conversation in Tagalog (chosen at random among the many languages of which I don't know a word) scattered with 10-codes than silence - if folks get on the air, improvements can be made; if they don't, the hobby's dead.
So, for those who are uncertain whether or not ham radio is "worth it" I can only convey my own experiences - it is, emphatically, and I have enjoyed all the aspects I have attempted, from repeater ragchewing to DXing and contesting. There are a minority of people out there, some of them hams, some not, some old and some new, who can really screw up the fun for the rest. However, they truly are a minority and can largely be ignored - there's a lot of spectrum and a lot of good-hearted, generous hams out there. If we can bring more people into the hobby who are truly interested in improving communications and goodwill through ham radio, the LIDs (and I emphatically don't limit that label to new hams, to no-code techs, or even southerners!) will become an even smaller minority.
Last comment: experience shows that you catch more flies with honey... being open, inclusive, and welcoming to new operators is far more likely to generate more good operators than trying to be exclusive and punitive toward them.
Just my opinion...
-Bill AE6GS
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WP4KXX on July 19, 2004
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Well maybe it time for you guys to start up a simplex radio club like a few of the guys here on long island did. And moving your operations to UHF is a bad idea. It doesn't matter where you go there are still going to be idiots on what ever band you choose to hide. by the way using a repeater sucks..........
Simplex operations is the only way to travel this seperates the men from the boys.
Well if you don't have a good simplex station well my friend you better start buying and stop crying....
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by COOL_ZOO_DUDE on July 20, 2004
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The original article is very misleading. I often monitor the repeater in question. The new hams, the ones with the KI4 callsigns, have not been anything like CB'ers. This repeater has NOT become a zoo. What a joke! There have been NO 10 signals. There have been NO "smokey reports." I've heard NO willful and repetitve violations.
One new ham butted in on the author one time. I heard the exchange. I believe it was an accident. It sounded as if she started transmitting with the volume down. Many, many hams have been guilty of this over the years. The author was sarcastic and impatient. He has been pouting about this ever since and has now brought his gripe to the internet where the whole world can get involved. Give me a break!
It is more likely that his gripe is that the increased activity from the new hams keeps him from hogging the repeater himself. By the way, I heard the author twice today on the 2m repeater in question. I guess the UHF thing didn't work out.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KD7ZRT on July 20, 2004
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Perhaps KE4QDC could post a few audio clips of the improper operation?
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by KE5ADB on July 21, 2004
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Well, I personally don't know anybody who collects the chicken buckets, but if you do, more power to you. hi hi. As far as the rest of this subject, I agree with what KI6YN said. I think over time, people will gradually develop into good operators. However, there is one complaint I do have. Just because somebody says 10-4 or break, doesn't justify a stereotype of "CBer". Get a life. If you don't like what goes on on your repeater, either do something about it (politely), or just go somewhere else. If they are operating legally, just not operating to suite your taste, let it go. Not everyone is going to be exactly like you. Thats what makes people unique. It would be kinda boring if everybody spoke the same. If you thinks it is bad on 2 meters, take a trip to Tulsa, Okla sometime, and listen on 11 meters. You'll be able to tell by all the 24/7 dead keyers, and the trash on the radio, that your situation isn't that bad after all. Just be fortunate for the things you do have, and quit taking them for granted. I just don't want to see a booth at hamfest with some guy selling his "collector chicken bucket with authentic grease stains". 73's to everyone, hope to enjoy a good QSO sometime.
KE5ADB
TJ
Sapulpa,Ok
Usually on the 147.09 machine.
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Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by VE3XYD on July 21, 2004
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I agree with the article. Here in our town, more and more truck drivers get easly a HAM radio licence. I noticed how they operate on local either VHF or UHF system.
They make a mistake which microhone they use while driving. Sometimes you are in a progress of QSO with someone then suddenly someone yells to the micrphone "Mike I'm on this and that road!". No identification nothing. It happens often very often, to the point that it becomes annoying. What happen to a old rule. Listen before you transmit.
ciao
73s
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA6FFV on July 22, 2004
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in California there are just too many damm repeaters.I agree repeaters are a egoe trip for their owners thats why ther are so many of them.Wr have the GMRS service where it costs 60$ for a station licence but the owners are permitted to charge the users a subscription fee CB any One.Sounds like a zoo to me.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by M3GQD on July 22, 2004
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I myself use to be an "ex-cb'er" and in england most of the foundation operators like myself (ex-cber's) are better than the operators that have never used a radio like we have before. Here most of my ex-cb'er friends that use ham radio respect the hobby very well. i think our foundation courses are a little easy here, and to be honast i dont just want to learn how to use the radio i want to learn how the radio works. also i think morse is a little under rated by alot of beginner license holders. I recently discovered a love for talking in morse code.... and i really do feel morse is a great way of communiation, But like a i said... alot of places in england near me do a "weekend" course, i really think it should be a bit harder to get a ham license to sort the men out from the boys.
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RE: Local Two-Meter Repeater Becomes a Zoo!
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by WA1GJF on July 22, 2004
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Call me intolerant, but our local repeater in Providence is overpopulated with flatliners. If it isn't one guy who uses it all day to converse with his wife, it is the banality of conversations that have driven me off. No, it not the geezers, (I've seen my 50th birthday), or the new kids who are sponges trying to learn as fast as they can. 2 meters has turned into the vast wastland than Newton Minow warned us about. I really do not care what you do for a living, I will not judge you on that. Just don't have a conversation repeating what the other person just said, or give the world an overview of your self proclaimed miserable life. 2 meters is no place to go if you want to impress someone with an IQ over 75 with ham radio.
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