Hams, Shortwave Listeners, and CBers should join forces against BPL

One morning, as I was sitting in my first period class, my teacher said something about how he listened to Shortwave radio all the time, and I felt that I should ask about BPL. As it turns out, he and several of his friends that are SWLs had no idea about BPL, or it's consequences.

My teacher, Dr. Dan, is a very informed person, and he keeps up on the things that will affect his hobbies and life, yet he had not heard of BPL. I myself had never heard of BPL until I got my ticket back in February of this year. CBers would also be affected by BPL, and very few know about it. I am acquainted with several CBers and none of them have any clue what BPL is.

What I am proposing in this article is that we take it upon ourselves to contact and try to join forces with CBers and SWLs nationwide and inform them of this situation. With their help, we could probably increase our numbers and our political voice.

People would see that BPL doesn't just affect Hams, it would affect two entirely different groups of people as well. I am not sure about the best way to go about doing this, however, if it can be done, it will greatly improve our chances of keeping BPL from spreading. Any input on this idea would be appreciated, and what you think can be done to further strengthen our case against BPL.

73,
Sean Sage
KD7ZOX

Member Comments:

This article has expired. No more comments may be added.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by ON4MGY on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

How about the army, the navy, etc? They also use HF for communications and will be affected. I'm sure they have more to tell to the politicians than CB-ers and SWL's.
How about broadcast stations on shortwave?
All the services that use HF will be affected, so if they could all join us hams in the fight against BPL, we might be heard.
Just my opinion.

73

Nic ON4MGY

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by AE6IP on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

HF broadcasters are pulling out of the North American market and substituting satelitte broadcasting instead. Even the Beeb is gone.

VoA doesn't care, 'cuz they don't broadcast in this direction.

Airlines are moving away from HF and towards satcom for long-distance communication.

The military, for reasons of its own, seems utterly uninterested in this topic, AFAICT.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N4CQR on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

And wise to be so... Satellites are a fairly easy target. One that you just don't put all your eggs in. Imigine the problems associated with the loss of a major communications satellite.

>The military, for reasons of its own, seems utterly uninterested in this topic, AFAICT.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA2DTW on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Would be great if we can get the hams and CBers to work together! Many share similar interests and have much to gain by working together, as you point out.
73
Steve WA2DTW

Not just CBers - Teamsters

by KG6TAG on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Don't forget that the Teamsters Union should be _very_ concerned about interference to CB bands. They have 1.4 million members and much more clout than we amateurs.

How do we coordinate taking interference data in the 29 MHz band and getting the results of that testing to the teamsters and other users of CB bands?

KG6TAG
- Dave

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KB7LYM on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

It is of NO USE...BEATING A DEAD HORSE.

The Crystal ball showed that by the year 2050 there are NO MORE AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS LEFT.

The old relics will be long buried in the archives of our Government or displayed in the Smithsonian under Ancient Communications. There you can see Old Transmission Keys combined with the Bongo drums and the Malati from the Aborigenes how communication Was in the past.

Relax... WE are doomed THE WORLD IS NOT going to be destroyed :)

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by NJ0E on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

congrats on a worthy post!

the difficulty is that swl's and cb'ers are less
cohesively organized than radio amateurs. the
north american shortwave association is very much
aware of the bpl threat and has submitted their
concerns, in parallel with the arrl. the problem
is that only a -tiny- minority of swl's are members
of naswa. the arrl represents ~20% of hams (it
deserves to be more, and i think it used to be).
i'd be suprized if 1 or 2 % of u.s. swl's are
members of naswa.

the url for the 'north american shortwave
association' is:

http://www.anarc.org/naswa/

you will see that they are very much on top of
bpl.

many swl's are found among foreign students
studying in universities here and recent
immigrants, who enjoy listening to news in their
native tongue. they can be difficult to reach.

probably the best way to reach swl's is via the
dxing programs on the foreign broadcasters
themselves.

73
scott nj0e

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KC4QNY on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yeah....its true, progress marches on, we'll go to the Smithsonian and see relics of communications past, maybe see some preserved amateurs operating some displays transmitting messages to stations that no longer exists. BPL is coming whether you like it or not and if there is a emergency, usually the power will be gone so BPL isnt an issue during those times anyway. Amatuers (well some of them) will have backup power to communicate but youre right, its a DEAD issue.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W5HTW on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

First of all CBers are an UNlicensed service. They carry absolutely zero weight with the FCC, no more so than the user of a cordless telephone. What little the FCC does notice them, is all negative, a monster the FCC created then could not kill.

SWLs are also unlicensed, and aren't even a "service" - the word used by the FCC to define something they regulate, like we are. They, too, mean as much to the FCC as the cordless phone user. Or perhaps half as much.

If there is to be any relief it will come from protected services. We hams are one. Public Safety, aviation, military, etc., are others.

My own guess is the relief we get will be because BPL is very expensive to install and maintain, and very prone to power line quality failures, lightning, birds, wind, snow and rain, and brown/black outs. Where it is needed the most - rural areas - it will be the hardest and most expensive to install and maintain. It will collapse of its own inequities because it will cost an incredible amount of money to 'clean up' the power lines in rural areas enough to make them useful to BPL. The economics aren't there. In urban areas, wireless is becoming the standard.

ed

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Easily done.

Put a very nice written form here on EHAM stating against the need for the BPL and what interference it will cause, we can copy it, sign it and then mail to our representatives of each state.

Proceed according to our Bill of Rights. The officials of our country are to do what we tell them to do and not what they need to tell us, we run this country, not them, but seems we weakened so, that they now have taken control over us and not abiding by the constitution.

There was a form already on another post, but seems that we younger generation are not wanting to get involved in our rights.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA4MJF on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

AE6IP,

The US Army is regulated by NTIA who has
commented on the BPL issue to the FCC.

The airlines may be going to sats for
their company traffic, but the Aeronautical
Enroute system is very much HF. Even still
use the "quait" Selcall. I think a lotta the
company traffic is now digital.

73 de Ronnie

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Don't want to change the story, but are you ready for this?

Here is another of your rights going down the drain.

The Universal National Service Act of 2003 sitting in this 108th Congress isn't getting much attention in the media, but has many Americans very concerned about what it will mean if signed into law by President Bush. In the Senate, S89 (Senate Bill), sponsored by Ernest Hollings, (D-SC) reads (search): To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

.:

The House of Representatives has a 'sister' bill, HR 163 (House Resolution), sponsored by Charlie Rangel, (D-NY) (search) which contains the same language. Both bills will make it mandatory for women to serve in the military as well as men; the age window for induction is 18-26.

.:

the draft: it's back

by KZ1X on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

OFF TOPIC!!! WRONG FORUM!!

... and, since when has it been a "right" to not have conscription in this country? We used to have it and we were better for it. Bring it back. Too bad its a couple of Dems doing it for political reasons.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by NJ0E on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W5HTW wrote:
> SWLs are also unlicensed, and aren't even a
> "service" - the word used by the FCC to define
> something they regulate, like we are. They, too,
> mean as much to the FCC as the cordless phone
> user. Or perhaps half as much.

ITU regulations (to which the USA is a signatory)
dictate that nations are prohibited from interfering
with international shortwave broadcasts, and are
required to protect them from power line (and other
types of) interference.

----------------------------------------------------
ITU Radio Regulation 15.12

Administrations shall take all practicable and
necessary steps to ensure that the operation of
electrical apparatus or installations of any kind,
including power and telecommunication distribution
networks, but excluding equipment used for industrial,
scientific and medical applications, does not cause
harmful interference to a radiocommunication service
and, in particular, to a radionavigation or any
other safety service operating in accordance with
the provisions of these Regulations.

----------------------------------------------------

so the fcc, as a us government agency, is required
to afford shortwave listeners comparable protections
that radio amateurs are afforded.

these laws were developed in response to the
"jamming" of international shortwave broadcasts
that were conducted by the fascists in germany
and the various communist administrations.

73
scott nj0e

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KB1LKR on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

CB'rs as an unlicensed user may not carry weight w/ FCC but they carry as much weight as ameteur radio licensees or anyone else with their congressmen (congressperson?), and congress ultimately writes/rewrites/tweaks the laws that define the regulations that the FCC enforces. Don't let the tail wag the dog, and do not underestimate the power of the voter!

The question is what are the best ways to reach the CB operators (and SWL listeners)? I submit that the internet, via forums aimed at the CB community is one such way, personal contact, as it occurs, is another, possibly through organizations as diverse as the Teamsters and REACT for example.

In addition to reaching the CB community one can work with the subset of the ameteur community associated with ARES and RACES (and MARS?) to reach those in the goverment public safety (and defense) sector, to address the concerns that relate to the homeland security and BPL's interactions w/ E-comm's.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KZ1X on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Hams, Shortwave Listeners, and CBers should join forces against BPL"

The latter two are not organized in any way that constitutes a definable 'voice' nor a politically useful entity. We can barely get the licensed hams to band together!

Ed is right. BPL will die on the economic vine, and that is the only thing which will save us from it.

... regards the commenter suggesting we mail in copies of letters:

This is worse than a bad idea; I have D.C. lobbying experience, and can tell you that when Congressional staffers see form letters coming in from fringe constituencies, they circular-file them and ignore the issue raised.

Only personal letters, delivered BY HAND to LOCAL Congressional offices and NOT by mail to D.C., get read and acted upon by anyone with authority to talk to the Congresscritter.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA4MJF on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well, Rep Rangel is pushing it for his own
reasons, but he is decorated vet of the
Korean Conflict.

It would probably be a good idea to bring the
draft back for men, not women though. Women
serve best in their auxilary role, look no further
that BG Karpenski. In the 70's, when we started
detailing WACs to other branches, I said there
was gonna be a real problem and it has come to
pass.

As Sen Dole said in his 1996 campaign, "We
have a gneration who never served, never
sacrificed and never grew up."

A lotta of the current Regular Army people
say draftees are worthless, but they never served
with any. Although I was RA, I served with
a lotta draftees and as a whole they were
just as good as Regulars. In fact, in the
infantry, we had draftees that made SSG in
two years (blood stripes). They did just as
well as the Regular NCOs, who got fewer and
fewer as the Vietnam conflict dragged on.

There were about as many goof offs that were
draftees as there were Regular Army goof offs.

A tour in the Armed Services will help a lotta
folks later on in life and it's only two years.

73 de Ronnie

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA4MJF on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KZ1X,

That maybe true for personal letters
amiled from non-contributers, but my experience
has been that retired Sen Helms (R) NC to
whom I contributed every elections cycle
always did his best to help me and did.
Same-Same for Sen Dole (R) NC his replacement.
The one time we had a R Congress critter, I
donated to him and found him always receptive.
We now have Rep Price (D) NC and I don't give him the
time of day nor ask for it.

The point is if you support your politician
with "green stamps" you can get their attention.
The more "green stamps" the more attention :-)
(Err, up to the legal limit or you'll get attention
you don't want!)

73 de Ronnie

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

You have that defined correctly.

As Sen Dole said in his 1996 campaign, "We
have a gneration who never served, never
sacrificed and never grew up."

My goodness how true and it shows today, does'nt it.

Guess whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KZ1X

This is worse than a bad idea; I have D.C. lobbying experience, and can tell you that when Congressional staffers see form letters coming in from fringe constituencies, they circular-file them and ignore the issue raised.
====================================================

It is possible to tell or let them know we are not voting for you the ones that have signed the petition say 680,000.

Reading this may change their mind.
.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N6AJR on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

The problem in reaching the CB'ers is solved, just drop down to 28.0 mhz to about 28.6 mhz and broad cast on am, they are there and will hear you ( at least the "free banders..) !

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WILLY on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

...

"What I am proposing in this article is that we take it upon ourselves to contact and try to join forces with CBers and SWLs nationwide and inform them of this situation. With their help, we could probably increase our numbers and our political voice. "

...

For a young person, you've grasped the concept of power is with the masses!

However, there is one major problem with what you propose. I suppose there is nothing wrong with contacting whomever you wish, but many will balk when you propose to 'join forces'.

This is because hams do not wish to be equated with Clown Banders. Please never forget that there is no comparison. The similarities between the two end after acknowledging that both use a radio.

Hams normally do not like it very much when someone equates and/or compares them to Chicken Banders.

Fortunately, for your idea of raising awareness and getting noticed by our political leaders, both are large enough groups of people to be 'stand alone'.
There is no need to come together, in hopes of being heard. This way hams can maintain their distance from the Clowns.

Perhaps you would like to keep handy a list of websites, etc., that you can easily give to the Clown Banders that you know. That way, should they be interested or motivated enough to do anything, they can read and learn for themselves about it.

73

New twist on BPL problems

by WA4ET on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Well, you guys may not be aware or this, but BPL has a NEW PROBLEM. It stems in Florida, but may have far reaching impact across the nation, and it goes like this.

Currently in Florida, there is a silent class action law suite. The basis of the suite is based of the Primus of licensed use, and easement restrictions. Although the attorneys are unaware of our blight at the moment concerning BPL, their law suite against the power companies has direct implications to BPL as I see it.

Many years ago when the power companies put up power poles, they sot out easement rights, some where granted, some where not, but what they got was a right to put up power poles, and not communications lines. Now this may all sound toothless, but the attorneys across the state of Florida are banning together to mount this fight. You see, if you bundle all your rights together like so many little sticks in a neat little bundle, you can lease them, or sell them, if they have value to certain individuals. So lets say you authorize a pole to be put up, and a power line is on it in your backyard, after all, there is a mutual public benefit to grant this right to a public not for profit utility, and you are paid some amount based on the value of what you grant. SO you’re happy, you have power, your neighborhood has power, and everybody is happy, and you have a few extra dollars in your pocket to go fishing.

Now go back Fifty years ago when this all happened, nobody knew where this would all lead, and the right you granted was for a power pole, for a power line, to a not-for-profit public utility. Now fifty years later, they want to put fiber, or WI-FI lines, cable on them and make a profit. Well this is a whole new ball game, you gave your easement rights for a power pole for power, not a communications station, or a cell tower, and there lies the rub.

You granted an exclusive right, and it was not expandable at their convince. Anyway, this is the basis of the class action suite as I understand it, but anyone with a bit of imagination can see the implications to BPL. It’s traveling down the power lines or down the fiber on the poles to WY-FI lines and so on.

This has the capacity to raise the cost of deploying BPL across the nation, and new lease or easements would have to be negotiated. Those that exist may have to be switch off until a settlement issues are reached

This information is accurate and based of fact, not fiction, and is quite interesting. I have paraphrased what I know, to make it as simple as possible to understand, and hope this information can get disseminated across the USA in an attempt to halt BPL, before it becomes a cancer we cant get ride of.

Regards

DAvid H Price

RE: New twist on BPL problems

by N4GI on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

>>> the attorneys across the state of Florida are banning together to mount this fight.<<<

Attorneys who are really concerned about preserving the HF spectrum? That's almost laughable.

If it weren't for attorneys, BPL would probably be a dead issue by now. Attorneys don't ban together for anything accept $$$$.

N4GI

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by CBER1289 on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Us 11meter ops want to do anything we can to stop BPL.
73 de 2BS1723

RE: New twist on BPL problems

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Yes, never trust an attorney that carries a suit case.

.:

RE: New twist on BPL problems

by NOLICENSEASOFYET on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W6TH wrote:

"As Sen Dole said in his 1996 campaign, "We
have a gneration who never served, never
sacrificed and never grew up."

My goodness how true and it shows today, does'nt it.

Guess whats good for the goose is good for the gander. "

What exactly does that mean, do you think that this generation hasn't served. What about Gulf One, What about Gulf Two. What about Panama, what about all the active duty military personel that are serving and have served since you. I think that Dole may have popped one too many viagra. Again, you have the opinion that "this generation" hell every generation that isn't yours.........owes you something.

Walk up to a veteran, or active duty member and tell them that they owe you something.

Your still living in a free country. Do you think that if after you were in the service, the United States abolished the military, that all the countries that wanted to harm us would say. "well remember W6Th when he served, we better not do anything or he will come back. NO.I don't think so. Anyhow, after our little exchange on the license thread the other day, I have found that each and every post I read of yours has something to do with your greatness and other peoples problems as you point them out so boldly.

I am beginning to believe you probably didn't even serve.

Now on to the BPL issue. I think that maybe here on eHam we could try to organize some type of call program and try to contact our local representative and give him our view of this problem.

Now W6Th.........you can come back with some type of greater than everyone response.

Did you ever get rid of those purple curtains? They are scary.

RE: New twist on BPL problems

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Easily done.

Put a very nice written form here on EHAM stating against the need for the BPL and what interference it will cause, we can copy it, sign it and then mail to our representatives of each state.

Proceed according to our Bill of Rights. The officials of our country are to do what we tell them to do and not what they need to tell us, we run this country, not them, but seems we weakened so, that they now have taken control over us and not abiding by the constitution.

There was a form already on another post, but seems that we younger generation are not wanting to get involved in our rights.

New twist but same old attitude problem

by K4RAF on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ham always seem to look down upon both CBers & SWLs. In real honesty, I'd estimate 75% of hams got their starting interest in radio from either/or so why is it made to be akin to sleeping with pigs in the yard?

SWLs have NASWA, who have filed comments against BPL. I was heavily involved with the old ANARC SWL net on 7240 until ego & the internet blew it apart. However, the is quite an organized SWL community.

I'd also add that the best BPL videos came from Austria & used 500KW broadcasts as proof, not 100 watt stations. They also showed what BPL looked like on test equipment, not an S-meter. Much wiser a presentation!

RE: New twist but same old attitude problem

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I don't believe we look down upon anyone seriously. We kid alot, don't we?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

If more Americans would know of their rights and read what was setforth for us, we would have a
better government controlled by the people.

.:

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by K0RGR on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I've said this before, but I think we need to start the basiclly true rumor among the trucker CBers that the government has finally figured out a way to shut down their CB. They're going to let the power companies jam their signals so the CB is worthless.

Then, we should suggest a protest CONVOY to Washington like in the movies.

10,000 angry truckers in D.C. would get somebody's attention!

All kidding aside, I believe that REACT is already involved, but I have no idea if they are getting the word out to their membership. The SWL organizations have filed some very good comments, but I'm sure that most SWL's haven't got a clue. The SWL's do have standing here, under International Treaty.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KE4ZHN on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Its too late to keep BPL from coming, its already on the way. The FCC is not about to step on Bush`s (no Kerry isnt the answer either) toes and stand in the way of his promise to "give everyone" broadband internet access. Im sure he got alot of nice fat "campaign contributions" from the power companies and the internet service providers chomping at the bit for more money. After all, lobbying is nothing more then legalized bribery, no? Corporate greed will shove this mess through regardless of which radio groups try to fight it. The power companies and internet service providers have WAY too much money on their side for a bunch of hams and cb`ers and little guys like ourselves to fight it.

Keep this in mind, whenever a politician talks about "giving" us something...its not for our benefit, its for his own! $$$$ We can beat this issue to dust here on this forum, and it will never change the fact that $$$$ talks...BS walks. Where theres cash to be made in huge quantities...there will be laws bent, rules bent, palms greased and any other unscrupulous act it takes for the greedy slobs in this country to crush the little guy and make more money. If you dont believe me, take a look at gas prices today!

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

While all of you are yakking and jawing the government is planning on taking more from you. One track mind does not conquer.

Read your rights and go forth to defeat them. Talk is cheap I see, don't give up all of you folks.

A bird came upon my window this morning and said to me: Cheer up, things could get worse. so I cheered up and sure enough things got worse.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by DUALGATEMOSFET on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Our government of the people, by the people and for the people has perished from the earth. It was replaced by a government of the government, by the government and for the government in which abuse of power and authority, corruption and lawlessness abound. We point the finger at other governments, yet ours is no better and no different. History has shown that one must be crooked, underhanded and corrupt in order to successfully make it in politics in this country. Yes, money talks ahnd BS walks. Its the American way. Stomp on others to make it to the top. :-(

RE: New twist but same old attitude problem

by W1RFI on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> I'd also add that the best BPL videos came from
> Austria & used 500KW broadcasts as proof, not 100
> watt stations. They also showed what BPL looked like
> on test equipment, not an S-meter. Much wiser a
> presentation!

It depends on what you are trying to show. If you are trying to show compliance with the FCC Part-15 technical specifications, the use of test equipment is a must, although that would normally be documented in a full written test-result report, not a video. If you are trying to demonstrate harmful interference to a radio service, the use of a receiver and power levels typically used in that service is more appropriate and technically supportable.

Ed Hare, W1RFI

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KC8ZQM on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Here's something strange for you...

This was brought up on a CB message board...Now mind you that is not a real good sample of CBers, but nevertheless most of them were FOR BPL because they get the impression it will only destroy amateur radio frequencies. I don't know where the hatred or us verse them attitude comes from but it is useless.

Besides as stated before, they are unlicensed. I personally think that should change but that is beside the point.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Wake up America and restrain our government as it is not over with the end of Iraq war. Another is on the way to save Taiwan: An island off the southeast coast of China, the seat of the Republic of China since 1949.

Help restrain our government as a start with this BPL. Get organized. Get practice as to how our constitution works. I am not a extremist or a radical, just believe in self government of the people, for the people and by the people of "These United States". As written by our forefathers.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KD7ZRT on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W6TH wrote:

>The Universal National Service Act of 2003 sitting in
>this 108th Congress isn't getting much attention in
>the media...

Indeed, these acts have been sitting.

They've been sitting idle for some time in fact. A quick search at thomas.loc.gov for S89 shows the last major action was on January 7, 2003.

Likewise, HR 163 hasn't been touched since February 3, 2003.

There're plenty of bills currently in Congress worthy of concern right now--these aren't them.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KG5JJ on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Frankly, aligning the CB community with the Amateur community as a united "front" against BPL is a bad idea.

73 KG5JJ (Mike)

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by OMNIPRESSIVE on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I don't think we have enough BPL threads, please make more.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W3RAZ on July 7, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/draft.htm

Check out that link regarding these draft bills. They have sat for over a year and if they ever move, it will be a surprise. Besides, our President knows the story the media is not telling. The media has not stated anything regarding the successes in Iraq or Afghanistan. All we hear abotu is the car bombs and other attacks be Iraqi insurgents that we knew would happen. The major wor action is done, but it may take another year for control to be completely handed over to the new Iraq. Even if our diplomats have pulled out and handed over the reigns to the interim government. That said, keep this political scaremongering OUT of eHam please.

BPL is a serious enough threat to CBer's as well. The FCC will listen to unlicensed service if sufficient numbers complain! They do need to get motivated because they will be effected. My hope is that BPL keeps going like it has. From the numerous reports I have seen, the rural areas may not be able to get BPL either and this was touted as THEE way to get broadband to the rural areas.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by X-WB1AUW on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"What I am proposing in this article is that we take it upon ourselves to contact and try to join forces with CBers and SWLs nationwide and inform them of this situation. With their help, we could probably increase our numbers and our political voice."

I think what you are proposing is that other people implement your idea.

I'll wait for your article detailing your experience implementing your ideas, and based upon the results you document, judge if I want to spend my time talking with CBers and SWLs. I'll be especially interested in how you find SWLs, and their reaction when you either telephone them, or knock on their door.

Please record some of the conversations you have with CBers, so that they can be posted here also.

Letters that CBers and SWLs write to the FCC and Congress will be especially interesting!

Good Luck.
73
Bob

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KL7IPV on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

. I agree with all the above and add US Towers. When I had to put up my Tri-Ex W51, they came thru with a base they made for me based on my drawing and it worked perfectly. They could have said it wasn't theirs and "Sorry". But they didn't.
Of course Swan, Atlas and RL Drake are on the list and they have gone. Many more gone that always put us first. Memories, memories. So many gone and so many more to take their places. Among the current best: Ten-Tec.
73
Frank
KL7IPV

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KL7IPV on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Oh oh, that got into the wrong thread. Geez. Sorry.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WM5Z on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Great idea, but it won't fly. The problem is that short wave listeners and even CBer's are not licensed spectrum users, so have no voice when it comes to part 15. This regulation says that these devices shall not interfere with licensed users.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA3KYY on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

W5HTW,

While SWLs are not a service, CB Radio is, they are defined in Part 95 as the Class D Citizens Radio Service and are afforded protection from Part 15 interference, at least in theory. Shortwave broadcasters are also afforded protection by ITU Treaty. Thus SWLs do have standing to lodge complaints with the FCC if reception of HF shortwave braodcast signals is interfered with and the FCC is obligated to enforce Part 15 to protect shortwave broadcasters.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W1RFI on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

CB is a radio service and is "licensed" by regulation. Part 95 users are entitled to protection from interference from Part 15 devices.

Ed Hare, W1RFI/6

RE: New twist but same old attitude problem

by WR8D on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ref K4RAF: I honestly don't believe any of us look down uppon a swl. Most i know of enjoy getting the qsl's from all over the world and take pleasure in answering them. Cber's??? Whew, i caught myself typing a book on that subject and backed up and deleted it all. Lets just say who in their right mind would want to be associated with that filth spewing bunch or have them be a part of any representation that any amateur operator is a part of. Woops i almost went off again.
73
John WR8D

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N3WDZ on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

My brother is a truck driver, and consequently he uses a CB
radio most of the day have people to talk to while driving all
over the countryside delivering crushed stone.

I'm sure he'd be hopping mad to find out about BPL's effects on CB communications, as he mostly does deliveries in areas served by overhead powerlines right next to the roads he drives on.

It hadn't occurred to me to think about the 11-meter band being included in BPL's range of frequencies, since I don't use it myself, but I'm glad the author pointed it out. I'll be sure to let my brother know what's going on, and he can tell all the guys he works with, and so on.

I'm sure many of us have a similar friend or relative using the CB service. If you haven't told them about BPL, please do! It only takes the simple act of passing the information on to the folks you know who would care about the issue to get the word out!

I've already alerted the SWL'ers in the family, and they were more than happy to write letters to their respective congresspeople. I'm sure my CB'ing brethren would do the same.

One other comment, in response to one of the other commenters: You mentioned that a hand-carried letter to your congressman works better than one that is mailed. I will have to try that.

I emailed Senator Rick Santorum and Senator Arlen Specter, and I only got automated responses that had little or nothing to do with what I had written to them about BPL. One at least mentioned ham radio (spectrum protection act), but the other was way off --- "Thanks for writing to express your concern over the recent communications indecency witnessed during the broadcast of the Super Bowl Halftime Show". Pretty obvious nobody read the letters closely enough...

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WILLY on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

by X-WB1AUW on July 8, 2004

...

"I'll wait for your article detailing your experience implementing your ideas, and based upon the results you document, judge if I want to spend my time talking
with CBers and SWLs. I'll be especially interested in how you find SWLs, and their reaction when you either telephone them, or knock on their door. "

...

See http://www.qrz.com/detail/KD7ZOX

The writer of the original article appears to be 14 years old as of 3-30-04. I doubt he has had much time to have experience implenting much of anything. :)

Your reply reads as though you did not realize this.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KD7ZRT Thanks Wesley.

They've been sitting idle for some time in fact. A quick search at thomas.loc.gov for S89 shows the last major action was on January 7, 2003.

Yes you are correct, but still on the agenda regardless. A sort of a note to take more rights of the American people, whereby it interferes with the future life of the young both male and female. Such as college and etc.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KC8VWM on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"While SWLs are not a service, CB Radio is, they are defined in Part 95 as the Class D Citizens Radio Service and are afforded protection from Part 15 interference"

Regardless of which service, license or unlicensed class - The fact of the matter remains that the more voices heard in the crowd - the more they pay attention to the cause.

Period.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

KC8VWM on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"While SWLs are not a service, CB Radio is, they are defined in Part 95 as the Class D Citizens Radio Service and are afforded protection from Part 15 interference"

Regardless of which service, license or unlicensed class - The fact of the matter remains that the more voices heard in the crowd - the more they pay attention to the cause.

Period.
====================================================

Here is a person that knows what he is talking about. Send those 680,00 letters to your reps. Tell them you will not vote for them and do so. Hams need no others. Lets go America, lets clean house. Move it, go go go.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N6XA on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Thought you might want to know that 400 plus VOA employees have signed a petition protesting the governments gutting of their service.

RE: New twist on BPL problems

by K1CJS on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

N4GI wrote:

">>> the attorneys across the state of Florida are banning together to mount this fight.<<< Attorneys who are really concerned about preserving the HF spectrum? That's almost laughable.If it weren't for attorneys, BPL would probably be a dead issue by now. Attorneys don't ban together for anything accept $$$$."

And they will be banding together for the money on this also. The money (profit) from the utilities for running the BPL signals on lines through the properties that were originally "not for profit".

You're right--the attorneys aren't interested in preserving the HF bands--they want to line their pockets any way they can.

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by K3RK on July 8, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Other groups affected
-HF Broadcasters
-Business and Government communications

Of even greater concern is the potential for power companies to gain unfair competitive advantage over telephone companies, cable TV, satellite TV and radio, etc. Everyone has to have a power line, but when the services these other industries provide are available from your power company, they will not be able to compete.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W1RFI on July 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> Put a very nice written form here on EHAM stating
> against the need for the BPL and what interference
> it will cause, we can copy it, sign it and then mail
> to our representatives of each state.

Form letters are not very effective, in most cases. It is much better to write an individual letter that is personal and heartfelt.

Ed, W1RFI/6

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ed W1RFI

What was meant and stated was to copy the form. Each individual copy the form and print for their own personal use and then each person mail to the reps. Not a group form.

73, W6TH

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

California residents. Go to Googles and ask for your state representatives.

Then enter your zip code.

You now will see the Senators that represent your area.
Some may be your next door neighbor, you never know.

Also the Congressmen and others.

Simple as that.

Same for the rest of the states, easy thing to do.

You will see the peoples choice and why they argue amongst themselves.

You may be in for a big surprise.
Now is the time to write that letter that concerns BPL.

I am positive they will enjoy hearing from you.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W6TH on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Ed W1RFI

Yes, you are right. Everyone to their own opinion and can change the information on the form to suit themselves. Just to give them some idea of how the form takes place. Sorry if I had the infor twisted.

Thought I would try to make it easier for those that want to write, but not enough knowledge how this works.
A format does help.

W6TH.

.:

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KD7ZOX on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"I think what you are proposing is that other people implement your idea."

I have already gone to a few meetings of my teachers SW group, and had my CBer friends tell everyone they contact, and post on a few CB message boards. But, this really only affects my area, unless of course the CBers relay the message across the country. I have asked them to do that and a few said they would for sure. I know these are smaller steps, but every one counts, and a small thing can set in motion a large effect. Please think about that.

KD7ZOX

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KD7ZOX on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

One more thing to add, I don't know whether or not I have made a difference, but the possibility is enough to continue.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by MZ412 on July 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I personaly am not your average shortwave listener. Im a long haired hippy pothead who listens to alot and I mean ALOT of heavy metal, death metal, and all brutal extreme forms of metal musick. I happen to be a shortwave listener as well. Discovered it back in the early 90's and have listened daily and nightly ever since to shortwave.BPL=sewage. I try to inform more young ppl about the joys of SW and tell them to say no to BPL.But todays youth is all about "give me convience or give me death" so to them the idea of internet @ every outlet is great.Those log blowers dont know anything. Mindless sheep going with the flow. I defecate on BPL.

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by AD7BK on July 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

he and you are the young man that showed up to the DK at the beach with the wooden beam that won you a Antenna book right? BTW To rest your mind, Tacoma is not going to use BPL they got thier cable tv. So dont worry but if you are in the county it may be a diffrent story. But we will see.

73

AD7BK

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KE5ASU on July 12, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

What if NASWA and ARRL jointly create an ad and get it put on some of the cable channels, such as CNN, MSNBC, FOX, or for that matter the network channels too! Maybe people form NASWA and ARRL could be on "Larry King Live" to educate the public. We need to get the word out to EVERYONE. The BPL will also affect the National Weather Service frequencys.

I started out in the 70's listening to shortwave, since I was living in Japan at the time (Dad was stationed at Yokota AB), and we did not have any English TV and only one English AM radio station (AFRTS). I listened to Radio Korea, Radio Moscow, FEBC Radio International, and several other shortwave stations (I have the QSL cards).
I had never heard of NASWA. Perhaps they need to advertise on multiple shortwave stations, so the listeners would be aware of them.

73,

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by K4RAF on July 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I looked to the videos to educate us on BPL, instead they instigate ignorance & emotion.

Now everything is a BPL noise & the complaints, comments & list comments show what a wonderful job was done instigating by the ARRL's own video!

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by VE7LGT on July 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Hopefully companies such As Ambient Corp will follow in the foot steps of Enron. Its obviouse that these types of companies care only about making money for themselves . I wonder how many of these companies share holders enjoy SWL and have no idea to the fact that they are poluting a valuable natural resource. Maybe its time to call in Greenpeace !!!!
I have created an animated GIF please feel free to copy it to your own web-sites its at: http://ve7lgt1.tripod.com

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by W1RFI on July 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

> What was meant and stated was to copy the form. Each
> individual copy the form and print for their own
> personal use and then each person mail to the reps.
> Not a group form.

That is exactly what I don't believe is very effective. By the time the Congressfolks read the third copy saying the same thing, they understand they are dealing with a form letter, which has an entirely different impact than "real" input from their constituents.

Look at the filed FCC comments and note that there are two form letters that are repeated again and again in the record. Now, compare those to the carefully thought out comments of some individuals. The former will not be read as the "real" opinion of the person filing the comment, while the latter may actually help shape opinion (in theory, anyway).

Anyone who can type a post here can type a personal opinion to their legislators or to the FCC.

Ed Hare, W1RFI

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N3IJ on July 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with Ed. Spam has no credibility.

Congress has been considering legislation for years that IMO would have prevented the whole BPL fiasco, except that the ham community never gave it enough support to get it passed.

Currently, the bill is known as H.R. 713, the Spectrum Protection Act.

It's too late to get the bill passed this session, but you could write your representative now (copy to Rep. Bilirakis, the sponsor) and ask him or her to co-sponsor it when it is re-introduced next year. Then check next February and send a thankyou if they've co-sponsored. If they haven't co-sponsored in February when you check, immediately schedule a visit to your representative's local office and ask them in person.

Details are at n3ij.home.comcast.net

Tom, N3IJ

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KC9FJE on July 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I agree that BPL is one hell of a mess (even though thats not how you guys worded it) but if we all pitch in and talk to our local congressmen about it we can atleast have a fighting chance.

P.S. Willy I dont think age matters so please lay off KD7ZOX for his age

F.Y.I. not only am I proud to be an ex-CBer but im also a 15 year old Ham

73's Mykal Anstrom
KC9FJE

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by KD5JDG on July 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Competent representatives of all bands and services that will be effected by BPL implementation should personally march up to D.C. and have a meeting with FCC and Power Company Representatives. BE PREPARED! THIS WAY WE CAN SHOOT DOWN ALL THEIR UNFOUNDED AND ILLIGITAMTE CLAIMS! THEY WILL BE WELL PREPARED FOR US, WE MUST BE WELL PREPARED FOR THEM! If what we say and think about BPL is true, which it is, then with a well presented and well argued/debated meeting, we should be able to shoot down the BPL proponents and all their technical inaccuracies into a puddle of their own incompetence. Furthermore, I have developed a theory for better "mass broadband implementation"; place good omni-directional WiFi antennas (with sufficent "fire in the wire") on top of stratigecally-located cell phone towers, and convince the FCC to allow for high-gain WiFi antennas in the personal home. With the security of a UNIX-based system, this should work jsut as well as cable-modem access, and should be jsut as easily feasible.

With technical competency and excellent orration, our representation in meetings combined with the presentation of more technically feasible plans should stop BPL in its tracks, not to mention give us a good image...<grin>

SO, WHO'S WITH ME ON THIS ONE?

TNX & 73's,
Fabian X.C.S.
KD5SYH

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA2JJH on July 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I do like the idea of 1.7 million teamsters to add to the 700,000 Hams. Now, you got a LOBBY!

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA2JJH on July 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

I would not discount SWLers and CBers. I would guess there are a large number of them. As others pointed out
REACT has a good rep.

Also many HAMS got started SWLing and/or CB first!
I was SWLing when I was 6 years old on my grandpa's
GRUNDIG. It had a green CRT "eye" for signal strength.

Also, I think just about every baby boomer had a CB ch-14 pair of H-T's.

Too bad todays kid walkie talkies are UHF-FRS. If the toy H-T's were still on CB.......You would have a POWERFULL lobby then!

Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by WA2JJH on December 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

True, short wave is loosing ground to Sat C and KU links.

Also transatlantic ship to shore commercial SSB HF radio's can be had cirt cheap.

My concern is with the "CLARK BELT". All or Geoosync
satelights are in this orbit 22,700 miles above the earth.

When one burns out with its 24 H and V(multiple video, mucho audio and data transponders, they cannot send the friendly SATCOM repair dude to swap out a TWT or transponder L.O.

So I think short wave will be around for a while.
A cheap back up.

Motorolas 500W solid state DSP rig 1.6-30mhz sells for around $125,000.

Despite BPL and everythin else, long live SWL!

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N7VI on December 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Cheer up fellow HAMs (and SWLs/CBers). BPL has no
realistic way of competing against Wi-MAX technology
for the so called "last mile" data connectivity.
Wi-MAX is just around the corner (late 2005 and 2006)
and has a radius of 30 miles and is poised to change
several things in the fields of : entertainment,
commercial radio, cell phones and of course as
a very cost-effective and much better bandwidth
(not to mention no RFI) technology alternative to
even cable/DSL (let alone "poor BPL") !

Wi-MAX could be our friend which competes against
BPL on purely technical merit and cost feasibility
alone.

So, cheers and 73s,
N7VI

RE: Hams, SWLs, and CBers Against BPL

by N7VI on December 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Interesting article :
http://www.cq-vhf.com/Sum04Editorial.pdf

Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Other Recent Articles

VK5RJ Still Gracing the Airwaves at Age 101:

rec.radio.amateur.moderated -- 5 Yrs. Old:

Tune-In To The World -- Amateur Radio Gets People Talking:

Student Sends MIT Letter to Space:

Amateur Radio Club Talks to Hams Worldwide on Centennial: