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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Meters
(N8JE)
on
July 19, 2004
View comments about this article!
Truck Drivers taking over lower 10 meters!
I have recently been hearing more and more AM radio transmissions from truck drivers and other individuals on the lower end of the amateur ten meter band. Listening around one would get the impression that 28.085 is the new CB radio channel 19. I do not know if this is ignorance on there part or not, but these are still unlicensed and illegal radio transmissions. And, they're proliferating like mad. Maybe the users think that this is part of a NEW CB radio band? Illegal users also seem to think that any amateur radio beacons they happen to hear are other stations trying to interfere with them. In order to be heard OVER the beacon transmissions, they increase their output power and cause harmful interference to LEGAL transmissions.
I think the FCC should start exercising their enforcement of the Communications Act and begin levying large fines to the companies and the individuals that use our precious frequencies illegally. Simply sending them a warning is obviously not working. If ignored, illegal users will outnumber those of us who use this band legally. And, we all know what happens when a group of individuals, right or wrong, who become the majority. The end result will be the loss of more bandwidth for radio amateurs.
As a retired truck driver, I can personally attest that the illegal radios and linear amplifiers being used on our frequencies illegally are being sold at truck stops and CB shops all over the US. My question is, can't the FCC take some positive action and begin leveling substantial fines against these illegal users and those that sell them their gear? Or, are we as radio amateurs, legally licensed to operate on 10 meters, to small of a group to warrant protection of our resources under the current law.
Our ten-meter band will soon be opening to some great propagation. If this trend continues, we will loose yet more of our precious spectrum to illegal “squatters”. Do you think they will be satisfied with a few extra kilohertz?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KJ6KJ on July 19, 2004
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Back in the 50's when they came up with CB,there were rules,one of them being that you were limited to stations no more than 150 miles away. It was never intended for what it turned into...short range"personal" communications was what it was meant to be.
I think the Feds should make the 27 Mhz CB band illegal and nove them up to the UHF range,such as FRS where it won't propagate,maybe give them a little more power there 5 or 10 watts.
I realize that to enforce this it would probably be impossible,as the rules we have now can't seem to be enforced,but it would be nice if they could
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by SP5QIP on July 19, 2004
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In SP we can hear every day stations from ex Soviet Union. Truck drivers are less harmful. Worst are taxi and transport companies operators, they are talking all the time. I know russian language, I told them many times what they are doing, but they don`t care. Young lady at the HQ got radio set to their channe, and that`s all. She don`t even know where she is transmitting. I can hear hundreds of them between 26-30 MHz. The are using Alan radios, 10x40ch, and thinking if radio got 400 channels we can use them as we want. Russian goverment don`t care about it, we in SP can do nothing about it. In your country you can hunt them, punish them, we can only get mad when they are talking over most wanted country operator.
Mike
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"Illegal Radio's - - - Illegal People"
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by WPE9JRL on July 19, 2004
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Our Government finds it an impossible task to keep millions of "illegal" people from jumping our borders and settling here.
Compare that insurmountable task to that of keeping our 10-meter borders clear of the illegal operators found within.
Good luck.
Maybe G.W. could grant the truckers amnesty....maybe give all the illegal 10M ops Tech Plus licenses. You know, it would stimulate the economy. I'm sure all the newly granted licensees would purchase new antennas, radios, accessories...etc.
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RE: "Illegal Radio's - - - Illegal People&quo
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by K3AN on July 19, 2004
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Don't forget that nature abhors a vacuum. That includes human nature. I tuned through 28.0 to 28.6 MHz one day recently and heard absolutely no signals (admittedly I have a lousy antenna), even though the solar flux index was relatively high that day. Wondering if something had happened to my receiver, I tuned down to the 27 MHz region. It was jammed with signals every 10 kHz. If our spectrum is empty and theirs is overcrowded, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to accurately predict what will happen.
Use it or lose it, folks.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by N4JBK on July 19, 2004
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What I believe should happen is for congress to give local law enforcement the authority to enforce such laws as possessing and / or using "linears" or radios that operate on frequencies that you are not licensed for. This was talked about a few years ago and was supposedly put before congress but i don't know what happened past that.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KG4INK on July 19, 2004
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It's very sad that the government has not been more strict on enforcement of the sale of these illegal radios. They should have nipped it in the bud in the early stages. I think now would be impossible to prevent these illegal transmissions. There must be millions of these radios out there. And to start giving fines to the retailers, well thats too late.
It would be impossible to fine the truck drivers. They are constantly on the move.
I think that states should adopt the federal laws so that local law enforcement could enforce them. Law enforcement can only enforce laws that are in statute through their states. ie: no scanners in vehicles unless your an amatuer radio operator. Or radar detection devices. Similar laws for these illegal radios by unlicensed people, and local law enforcement could join the fight. So write your state congressman and try to help get these laws on the books so we can save our hobby and the frequencies from these pirates.
Hey just think of all the useless laws they pass each year in your state.
I may only be a tech, but I love my hobby and I expect that everyone abide by the same rules that we all do.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4RAF on July 19, 2004
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It is not the radios, it is behavior...
Enforcement is too busy busting 2 meter simplexers for language, than unlicensed intrusions.
I don't know where you have been but this is not new nor has it changed in the slightest bit...
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KB1HAP on July 19, 2004
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Recently I was shopping for a truck mirrow mount to install my comet 50/144/430 on my motorhome. To my surprise, I found a lot of shops on google offering "exports" CB radios that can transmit on 10 meters with hundreds of watts. According to the law in the US, CB radios are allowed a maximum of 4W in 40 channels at 26-7 mhz.
I was flabergasted at how easily is to buy one of this "exports". The sad thing is that this equipments cost a lot of money ($300-400), and probably means big business for a lot of people in the chain.
I know that controlling the selling of this equipment is very difficult, but perhaps the FCC can control this at the manufacturer level? let them keep a registry with serial numbers, and allow them to sell this equipment to countries where that's legal? By the way, I don't think those "exports" are legal in any country, since communication agreements include the HAM bands all over the world.
I don't think there is an easy answer to the question of controlling this unfortunatelly.
Max
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K3EY on July 19, 2004
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I agree with K3AN and K4RAF.
Bitching about the lower ten in which I worked that famous 100 year old JA operator 20 years ago on CW, and then not using so much band space on the remaining ten meter band is ridiculous, what can one really expect!?
Plus like K4RAD said, this has been going on for a long time although that doesn't make it right, why worry about it when the entire body has become infected with the cancer. It's now world wide like the SP Operator stated and will not be stopped by some new laws, believing so is dreaming. Welcome to the new world where things change all the time and not always for the better.
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Join the ARRL
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by K0BG on July 19, 2004
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Apparently, some of you guys don't belong to the ARRL and/or don't visit their web site very often.
The FCC has been clamping down on illegal activity by truckers and trunking companies. All one has to do is read the enforcement letters posted on www.arrl.org to realize this fact.
One of the problems the FCC has been plagued with, is some otherwise law abiding amateurs are QRMing the enterlopers making it difficult for them to monitor and locate the offenders.
Set the example, don't be one.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by K0RFD on July 19, 2004
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Mr. Hollingsworth has already asked for our help in dealing with illegal 10-meter operators. See, for example:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/05/01/100/
But what do you do? They don't have callsigns.
From Colorado, I could possibly narrow them down to which quarter of the country they're in with my Hexbeam and I don't have DF equipment.
You can't even yell at them. They're in the CW portion of the band, we can't transmit phone there, and they don't understand Morse Code. Now and then it's fun to phone up a friend and have a RTTY QSO over the top of them, but to be perfectly honest, I don't believe in QRMing people no matter WHO they are.
Thus far, the FCC is pursuing them by leaning on the companies they work for, which is probably the right way to go. But the only reports that have "stuck" are from mobile HF ops who have pretty well caught individual trucks red-handed. It's gonna be a long haul.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N6KEK on July 19, 2004
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While reliable communications in an 18-wheeler could be viewed as essential and UHF band would be quite suitable for the range an 18-wheeler could benefit from and I would endorse it on the face of it.
However if one takes the time to monitor the current channel 19 of the CB band it doesn't take long that 99.9 percent of the "essential communications" consist of sharing information with each other as to where law enforcement vehicles appear to be and what their current percieved function might be for the moment such as send CQ on 10.525 GHz or higher or asking 18 wheelers for thier logbook entries and based on a great deal of monitoring the slang I would guess that 2 sets of these logbooks is a must.
With current technology such as in-cab signalling I question the need for radio communications in trucks under Inertstate Commerce Commission regulation as most of the dialoug is about anything but how much you can exceed the speed limit and how you can conceal the fact that you have driven too many hours to be safe.
Here in Kansas in the last 10 days we have lost 9 innocent occupants of automobiles that were stopped by temprpoary traffic controls because of road contruction on U.S. 50 in Marion County because of 18-wheelers failing to see the stopped cars not to mention the read lights and flashing yellow lights preceding them by a mile or so and the final determination of the cause was failure of the 18-wheelers to stop most likely due to inattentiveness and fatigue so a 2- way radio in their cab is probably as distracting to them as is cell phone use while driving we see so much of as well in automobiles.
I might add the cell industry greases the palm of your legislators each and everytime the subject of passing restriction on cell use while driving and each and every day more people are killed due to these distractions.
My suggestion is to get them out of the commercial vehicles all together as well as cell use except in an emergency.
Bob
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0IPG on July 19, 2004
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Bob - CQ on 10.525ghz? I haven't heard that one before - I like it :-)
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N7UQA on July 19, 2004
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I said it before and I'll say it again, enforcement on this front will be spotty at best. The 11 meter band needs to go. Move everything to the FRS/GMRS/MURS bands and phase out 11 meter CB by the end of the decade. The CB band started in the 462/7 Mhz band anyway, but was pushed out because it was easier to construct 11 meter radios and the fact that business interests wanted these bands. With the 10 meter band seeing minimal use, and the ease at modifying export and regular CB radios for out of band operation, we will have this problem for a long time.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 19, 2004
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It has been such a widespread problem for so many years now, I wonder if our efforts would ever completely eliminate this issue.
I think the best outcome one could hope for, would be to "minimize" the problem.
Unless millions of dollars are spent in FCC enforcement activities, illegal operation in the CW portion of 10 meters will remain a problem, as it already has demonstrated for many years now.
my 2 cents
73
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by SWANMAN on July 19, 2004
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And let's don't forget the hams who's 'MARS Modded' radios invade the 11-meter band also!
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on July 19, 2004
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A very few truck companies did get a very gruff letter
from the FCC to stop it's operstions on 10M.
Not enough however. As long as you can buy 10/11 meter rigs as ham rigs and amplifiers too, you cannot stop the problem.
If you want a few chuckles/tantrums.....check out what is available. 1KW amps are dirt cheap for 10M.
hey are dirt cheap and have filthy output.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KT8K on July 19, 2004
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Nothing is stopping anyone from reporting a CB shop to the FCC if they see illegal equipment being sold there. Selling non-type accepted equipment is a crime, and is a lot easier to catch than just transmitting out of band.
Ham-truckers could make a serious dent in the sale of illegal gear if they wanted to ... how about it, you over-the-road hams?
Gud rx & have a safe drive de kt8k - tim
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N6AJR on July 19, 2004
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look up copper electronics or H & Y electronics on the web and decide how many illegal amps, 10 meter cb radios, roger beeps you want and order them. they both carry a 12 volt 1600 watt texas star linear for around $700 so what do you expect.. I have sent both to fcc .. and they are still there......
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC2MMI on July 19, 2004
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<It would be impossible to fine the truck drivers. They are constantly on the move. >
"Creative" and "government" are rarely found together but the great leaders think creatively. Consider that interstate trucking is regulated by the fed and the ICC. Now tie them together, make it flat-out illegal for any regulated trucking company to employ any driver who has been found illegally using any radio service.
Once a few drivers lose their meal tickets, the rest will get religion and either get licensed or get off the air.
Ain't so hard. Make the fine $2500 per transmission and use the fine money to pay for some inspectors with rdf equipment who can check out the interstates. Give them digital recorders, and the odds are that they'll log five or ten transmissions before they catch up to anyone...making it a $10-20,000 fine.
Tie that into confiscating any equipment used in the commission of the crime (i.e., the truck) and you'll see the trucking companies race to end the problem as well.
Creative enforcement works.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 19, 2004
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KG4INK, NC has passed enabling legislation
a couple years ago. The police can enforce and
NC is a state that allows citizens who know
of law violations to go to a magistrate and
"swear out a warrant" for the offender.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N2OBY on July 19, 2004
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<<But what do you do? They don't have callsigns.
From Colorado, I could possibly narrow them down to which quarter of the country they're in with my Hexbeam and I don't have DF equipment.>>
It's not that hard. Just pay attention as you travel the highways and byways - when you pass a truck who's driver is running a KW or more of dirty signal, you can't help but notice. It'll wipe out all the other radios in your vehicle. Note the company name, truck #, license plate, any other identifiable information, and equally important: the date, time and location. Forward that information to Riley Hollingsworth at the FCC's Enforcement Bureau.
-Ken N2OBY
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by N1IDU on July 19, 2004
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These radios and amps are coming from China- Cheap.
You just can't beat the profit margin on this stuff.
Thank the government of China for subsidizing the manufacture of this junk- and the World Trade Organization for pimping it. What's wrong with you?
Don't you just LOVE a bargain? ALWAYS low prices. But wait, a Texas Ranger isn't cheap- by the time it hits the shelf. Truck stops sell radios to make money, and export radios do just that.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4UF on July 19, 2004
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------
It is not the radios, it is behavior...
Enforcement is too busy busting 2 meter simplexers for language, than unlicensed intrusions.
------
Huh? From where I'm listening (up and down the east coast) the only thing DEADER than 10m is 2m simplex. :-)
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WILLY on July 19, 2004
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by N4JBK on July 19, 2004
"What I believe should happen is for congress to give local law enforcement the authority to enforce such laws as possessing and / or using "linears" or radios that operate on frequencies that you are not licensed for. This was talked about a few years ago and was
supposedly put before congress but i don't know what happened past that. "
And
by KG4INK on July 19, 2004
...
"I think that states should adopt the federal laws so that local law enforcement could enforce them. Law enforcement can only enforce laws that are in statute through their states. "
I hope those reading here give your idea some serious thought before encouraging it.
The average small town, for example, barely trains their local cops. Just enough to get by.
Do you want some gung-ho Barney Fife newbie cop, to stop (detain) you because somebody with a cheap TV and bad cable connections is getting some TVI? As soon as he sees your antennas and perhaps your license plate with your callsign on it, he's got a reason to stop you.
How many cops are hams? So the chances that the cop will have even the foggiest notice of what he is doing are slim, at best.
"ie: no scanners in vehicles unless your an amatuer radio operator. Or radar detection devices."
These are classic examples of laws quickly put on the books, by people that either didn't think them through, or are just plain ignorant.
This is censorship.
The bottome line is: If you don't want me to hear it, then keep it off my antenna.
Anyone should be allowed to have any kind of radio receiver.
"Similar laws for these illegal radios by unlicensed people, and local law enforcement could join the fight. So write your state congressessman and try to help get these laws on the books so we can save our hobby and the frequencies from these pirates. "
While keeping illegal operators off the ham bands is a noble and just idea, involving local cops is not a good idea.
Here is an idea to kick around:
The FCC hires a half dozen or so electronics techs, right out of college or tech school. These types won't cost as much, and will be more willing to run all around the country. Train them in proper enforcement of FCC rules and regs. Turn them loose. Let them write up fines. If the state and local cops want to help, let the FCC personal ride along - this way the traffic cop can stop the truck that is transmitting, and a qualified person can examine the radio(s) in it.
It would seem that there should be enough fines levied, that the cost of this program would be less than zero.
Granted, these enforcement personnel would catch less than .01 percent of the violators.
But the word would get out.
Just like it is out now. The word now, is that anybody can do anything they want, on any frequency, because nobody gets caught, or if they do then the penalty was worth the risk.
True or not, that is the feeling out there.
All the violators do not need to be caught. All that needs to be done is to change the attitude about it.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 19, 2004
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N2OBY -- if I had a rig in the car, I would.
Plus, I don't get out much...
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KI6LO on July 19, 2004
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Per N4JBK's post.... "What I believe should happen is for congress to give local law enforcement the authority to enforce such laws as possessing and / or using "linears" or radios....."
This is exactly what we don't want. If local law enforcement has the authority to 'police' radio equipment possession, who is going educate them in the difference between an illegal operator and a legally licensed amateur operator. The last thing I want to have to do is try to 'educate' a police officer on the side of the road about me being legally licensed by the FCC to possess amateur radio equipment in my vehicle and to prevent them from possibly confiscating gear and facing possible arrest.
I possess full HF, VHF and UHF mobile coverage with multiple radios remotely mounted in the trunk and control heads mounted in and on the dash. It isn't an easy task to remove them without damaging the gear. This might mean that the police could impound my car until the matter was cleared up.
Let's let the FCC handle the matter and if you know of illegal operators (CB or otherwise), turn them into Riley and let him beat on them.
Gene KI6LO
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KB9ERU on July 19, 2004
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I've felt very strong about this issue for a long time it seems.
Take the last Field Day for example. I worked a TON of folks on 10 meters. Some of them well into the night time hours.
One operator I had a short QSO with has the same question I do. Why does it take a contest, DXpedition, or Field Day to bring 10 meters alive? Why not use it more often?
It's not like you have to own 5 acres to put a 10 meter antenna up!
What's that you say? Your fist is not so good for sending code?
Use a computer to send and receive. Use one of the many digital modes like PSK or RTTY.
I agree with the others. Use it, or lose it. I just hate to see it wasting away in the hands of unlicensed folks.
Mick KB9ERU
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N4GI on July 19, 2004
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"Thank the government of China for subsidizing the manufacture of this junk-"
http://www.davemade.com/
I Don't think Dave is in China...
Thank the morons that actually buy 3CX3000 mobile amplifiers.
N4GI
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 19, 2004
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Gene,
Congress passed the law a while back and
many states mine (NC) included have enacted
the enabling legislation to enforce Part 95
locally.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WB2WIK on July 19, 2004
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Nice thought, but a slightly flawed argument.
We aren't heading into enhanced band conditions as the posted article suggests, but rather heading into a long period of greatly reduced propagation, on average. There are exceptions, but in general, 10m conditions will get nothing but worse for the next couple of years before we are likely to "round the corner" of Cycle 24 and see regular ionospheric propagation on the band -- best guess at this point is this may occur late in 2007.
No amount of power or usage can open a closed band, so the knuckleheaded freebanders are mostly going to be having local chit-chats and not greatly interfering with each other, us, or anyone else, for a while.
Of course, there's been some terrific sporadic-E on 10m in June and July, but that will fade to memory a month from now.
The freebanders don't bother me when I use 10m CW, since I'm using 250 Hz bandwidth filters. I've decided to let other things bother me, going forward.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N4LI on July 19, 2004
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“We aren't heading into enhanced band conditions … but rather heading into a long period of greatly reduced propagation, on average…. Of course, there's been some terrific sporadic-E on 10m in June and July, but that will fade to memory a month from now.”
That’s absolutely right, of course. But remember, the connection between sporadic-E and the Solar Cycle is attenuated, at best, if it exists at all. Even at the bottom of the cycle, we should have some nice seasonal Es openings. And, when we do, we’ll hear those cap-wearing, cigar-chewing, snuff-spitting, caffeine pumping, law-ignoring, log book-faking, 18-wheel idiots cruising up and down the Superslab.
10-4?!
Sadly, the intricacies of various ionospheric modes are lost on these folks. They may not understand that 1kw/mobile helps little on a closed band. "More power? More better, Good Buddy!" And, when that Es opening happens, man are we gonna hear 'em! So, assuming Riley has the funds to chase these guys (which he probably doesn’t), we should aid him all we can.
Peter
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 19, 2004
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Speaking of "Davemade," I couldn't help but notice that they have a disclaimer on the very bottom of their website that reads:
"Please follow all FCC rules and regulations"
What's next? Selling weapons to hardcore criminals with a disclaimer stating:
"Please follow all your local laws when robbing banks" ??!!
Also the website link below shows an interior of a car with an "Amateur Radio" installed in it. - A Uniden HR 2510 I believe.
I am sure not only is he running his equipment according to all applicable FCC rules, but the HR 2510 radio is only installed there for practicing CW only.
http://www.davemade.com/photos.htm
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 19, 2004
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A better look at what the FCC is doing can be found here:
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/
Usually (but not always) the items marked as "CITATION" are those that involve non-certificated CB related equipment.
The FCC has been averaging about 1 citation a month for the last year or so with at least one case (Paladin Electronics) receiving a forfeiture order of $7K.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KD7CJO on July 19, 2004
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Hi All, I think that if we get real sereious about these guys breaking the law then the word would get out. If we cought and then leved VERY stiff fines on even just a few of them then the word would get out real fast that "super truckers" would NOT be welcome on the bands, roads, or anywhere else. Just the other day here in south Wyoming a car driver called the police to report that a trucker(from a well known shipping firm) was messing up his am radio program. He knew it was that truck as the problem only happend next to that rig. He gave a discription of the truck to the dispatcher and asked that someone stop and have a little "chat or eyeball qso" with the "good buddy". I don`t know what became of it after, but I do hope that something was done. If these folks are found and fined something will happen as "money talks and bull#$%@ walks" is true in any industry. I also agree that it is a behavior problem and not the avalability of the gear. I see this stuff on line but refuse to by it. I just CHOSE not too as I want to fallow the law. I think it would be real cool to talk to someone half-way across the nation from my car. Know what I did about it? Got a ham licnce, problem salved. These people have some kind of mental defect or are very ignorant(or both) if they think that it is ok to act this way and/or that they will not get nailed. Good dx to all. de kd7cjo in Wyoming
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KJJ4321 on July 19, 2004
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Forget about local governments enforcing anything to do with radio. They are so budget poor that they can't keep real criminals off the street let alone 10M cber's. As far as the feds go, all their money is flowing into that big sandbox called Iraq. Laws aren't worth a plug nickel if you don't have the funds to back them up.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N1IDU on July 19, 2004
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Yes Dave appears to be an all American guy, but I was referring to the Galaxy type transistor amps. And it's
not just China, this garbage is made all over the world. There's such a large market for ignorance.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N6AJR on July 19, 2004
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So every truck goes into a truck scale 10 times a day. some at random are selected to be inspected. This is going on now. Train the officers to see if there is an illegal radio or amp in the truck. The antenna would be a dead give away!
Teach the difference between showing a Ham license and not having any radio license. If they have an illegal radio or amp, confiscate the truck, load, radio, etc. and tell the guy to call the boss and tell him his truck is impounded for illegal radio. If running illegal and has a general license, or a teck plus and a key.. he skates even if running an illegal cb, he has a license.. ok..
A week later most all companies would pull cb's from all of their truck. How would you like to explain to bill gates why his truck load of computer chips are being held in kentucky due to an illegal radio..
see what I mean.. solves the problem.
N6AJR
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KE4ZHN on July 19, 2004
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Id be willing to bet if the FCC hadnt let this go for nearly 30 years the problem wouldnt be nearly as widespread as it is now. Ever since the first pll 40 channel cb radios came out that are easily capable of modification into the 10 mtr. band this has been going on...old news. Where was the FCC then? The export rigs started making their way into "cb land" at least 20 years ago so why has the FCC just sat back and let this mess grow like cancer? Good luck enforcing this now, theres so many millions of these rigs all over the world youll never get rid of them all. Besides, why sweat it? How hard is it to work cw on 10 right through the illegal trash using a good narrow cw filter and a good antenna? As others have pointed out here, if we dont use it, the pirates will!
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by SP5QIP on July 19, 2004
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Whatever say about "illegal" CB radios, the are needed. I have HF license many years. At the beginning HF trx was to expensive for me, so I use HR2510 to work on 10m. Maybe in USA people are earning enough money to go to the shop and buy one. We don`t. So we use homebrew, ex-military radios, modified CB radios to have a chance to be active on HF. Disallowing selling those radios can close the door to people with little budget. Everything is for people, but.. for intelligent person, not an idiot. People are diffrent. I can tell you how it was in my area wit youngsters talking on 10m from their CB radios. We tod them what is all about, and that was all. No more problems with them.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4RAF on July 19, 2004
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This has become a joke thread. I can have any radio I want to buy in the USA:
IF I use it illegally, I am to be held responsible for its' misuse.
How hard is it to understand?
Kinda basic law like CC&Rs really...
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by X-WB1AUW on July 19, 2004
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I would think that the amount of QRM on 10 meters would be going down, because we are in the trough of the sun spot cycle. During the trough, more illegals get on because local communications become more reliable.
Also, during the trough, more hams become inactive, because the HF bands aren’t open.
At the peak of the last cycle, the QRM from Asia was astounding! The VKs and ZLs would tell me that they had to find blank spots between the channeled signals on 10 meters.
AM sigs in Spanish were all over the place.
It is really not remarkable that any ham thinks that more enforcement by the FCC might reduce the illegal USA ops. But, simply saying the FCC ought to do more, doesn’t change anything.
Tell us what you have done, what has worked to reduce the illegals, and what hasn’t worked.
Years ago, I tried internet spots of illegals on 10 meters, and asked other hams that saw the spots to swarm the AM sigs with CW QSOs—that didn’t work. I got the most response from non-USA hams complaining about the spots.
Making the statement to “Use it or loose it!” was around when I was licensed, more than 2 sun spot cycles ago. So, that doesn’t work.
Bob, AE7G
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AH6RR on July 19, 2004
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Why don't some of you guys that live near Truck Stops on the mainland just hang out there and have a pocket full of pins. Just stick pins through their coax that should fry a few radios. Oh make sure that they are not Hams or you might get your A** kicked. Too bad we dont have truck stops here in Hawaii ;=)
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WW0H on July 19, 2004
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I agree with Gene; I would rather see fewer rules and just plain better operating practices. Newton, Kansas, a few years ago, passed a "no scanner law" to prevent ambulance chasers and such. But their interpretaton of scanner was much too loose. The law was passed because one individual consistently showed up at the scene, getting in the way of EMS and PD. But the result was it was illegal to carry any HT or have a mobile radio that might receive their frequencies. The amateur radio club in Newton (NARC) (www.newtonarc.net - blatant commercial!) was able to get the law repealed when the city came and asked for assistance with a public function. Our answer was that we were unable because they had made it illegal for us to bring our radios into town.
Log the illegal activity. Include date, time, frequency, and if possible a recording of the conversation. Include weather conditions, possible direction your antenna was aimed, etc. I would suggest reporting to an ARRL Official Observer, as well as the FCC. Documentation will go a lot further than a simple complaint.
We don't need more rules and laws, just better operating practices.
My opinion,
John - WW0H
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 19, 2004
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"So every truck goes into a truck scale 10 times a day"
Nope. Most truck scales are closed some large fraction of the time due to budget cuts. Many states are now implementing 'bypass' systems where trucks that have already been inspected don't have to stop. Most busy truck scales do rolling weight on most of the trucks that come in, and don't have the manpower to do more.
And it's not illegal to own most of the gear being discussed. It's only illegal to use it inappropriately, so truck-stop confiscation would lack due process.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 19, 2004
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"Id be willing to bet if the FCC hadnt let this go for nearly 30 years the problem wouldnt be nearly as widespread as it is now."
I'd take that bet, as the problem was much more widespread 30 years ago than it is now.
Best estimates are that in 1974 there were 10 *million* licensed CB users, and an unknown number more unlicensed ones in the US.
Best estimates are that in 2004 there are about 100,000 CB users, total, in the US.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 19, 2004
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It is a prima facia violation of Part
95 to have an external RF Amplifier
in the line of a Class D CB station.
Took many of those when I was on the
road. Actually, a local officer can
enforce federal law, however, most
don't becuase they not trained in
the federal system and often their
is not a US Magistrate around.
I had less trouble in the '70s getting
the US Attorney for Eastern District of NC
taking those CB cases, than single cases
of violations of the 1968 Firearms Act
(for these they wanted more than one weapon).
However, we had a State Law that covered them.
HOwever, the feds paid better per diem and
fees that I got in state court ZERO :-)
73 de Ronnie
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by K5CQB on July 19, 2004
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A couple of days ago I got my first 10m station on the air. The first thing I heard was a technician from my neighborhood having a QSO with a bootlegger. How do we find out who our local observers are? I was going to break in and advise the new ham to not QSO with the bootlegger but it was obvious that he new what he was doing and would not heed my warnings.
Also reference the suggestions to adding laws. We already have sufficient laws in place, the FCC just needs to enforce them. I as a police officer would be more than happy to take reports or make lawful traffic stops to document (and confiscate when applicable)illegal stations. Maybe a little communication and training with the local law enforcement would help. It wouldn't solve the problem but could aid other efforts.
Jim, K5cqb
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 19, 2004
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Jim, you should get an EMailed Section
Mangers report (that used to be in QST)
The OOC should be listed in the report along with
the rest of the Section Coordinators.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4JQD on July 19, 2004
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What you think is a "all truck driver" problem is not.
I personally know of several regular CB'ers around town who transmit out of band (10M & 12M and the old business band) and transmitt many hundreds of watts. as muth as 500W just to talk 20 miles. I know of 1 CB operator who claims to be able to key down 3,600W AM
(WHEW). We dont need un-trained local police looking
at our car antennas and radios and trying to determine if we "are legal". Heck, half the time liscensed operators cant even keep track of all the regs, how can a non-technical cop, who may not know either end of a SWR meter be able to determine anything Ham Radio Related. Even the Cable Company takes a Whinning fit and points a finger at us everytime some one complains about poor cable service, it always that guy with "all those big antennas causing it".The Fcc is too little too late. they let uniden,ranger,cobra and a dozen other companies you never heard of make dozens of brands of 10M radios that are set at 11M and can be quickly easly moded to 10M and 40W to 100W and sell them at truck stops.
Even Radio Shack sells 10M & 2M and 440 gear now. Stop selling to unliscensed people. make them provide at least a certificate of compleation b4 selling to them.
If you sell pot on the corner, someone will buy it...and use it. the same applies with transmitters.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KA4KOE on July 19, 2004
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Just be sure you don't get caught putting those pins in. A lot of those truck driver types could bend you into a pretzel without breaking sweat.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by W4LGH on July 19, 2004
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Just give them all NEXTELS. Call it DONE!
www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC9FUT on July 19, 2004
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to N6KEK you are so far out in left field with your post it isn't funny,I can see you haven't done any research on the so called facts that you are stating.First Approx.83% of truck vrs car accidents are the cars fault you can pick up any dot report and see this the percents vary slightly but not much.Second Truck Drivers very seldom drive over hours now days the dot and insurance companies are keeping a very close eye on the logs trust me I drive truck and the dot comes into the company and checks logs hours of operation on a regular basis thats a fact,they stop you on the road to check the logs at the weigh stations also,when was the last time a cop stopped you and checked how long you have been driving like going up north after work on friday when you know you are too tired.Third yes some truck drivers are using the export radios and I don't condone this but we have in this area are foreiners Spanish decent mostly with the export radios using lots of power cause they are too cheap to get a phone. Cell phone use fact again is really not on the top of the list for accidents eating and reading is the top two.Finally sit at a busy intersection one afternoon you honestly tell me who runs more late yellow or down right red lights I can guarantee that your answer will be cars,cars and more cars.Iam not talking for all truck drivers on the road but with over 20 years experience and a flawless driving record I can tell you from my drivers seat that there are at least 100 times more auto motorcycle pickup and bicycle riders drivers that are a mennnace to the roads than a truck driver will ever be.You are personally welcome to ride along with me at any time and prove me wrong,I got a 100.00 bill says you can't do it. Have a nice day.
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by KK6KF on July 19, 2004
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hey jim,
just the other day I saw this car in the Mall Parking lot wih a million antennas. in the car was a CB radio with a moble Lininer amp the put out 200 Watts a 10 meter radio I asked him if he was a ham and I as the guy what was his call(ham call that is). he replyed was I don't have a call. then I said that you are running an illgal radio. he even admited that he runs a 1KW at his home QTH. I emailed the fcc with his CA Plate number and hope they nail the sucker.... but most likely will not get caught.
Kristyanna KK6KF
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KD5VHZ on July 20, 2004
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I don't think that we want local police enforcing Part 95. Not even getting into the fact that your local cops have plenty on their hands with regular crime, we as Hams have a degree of protection when it comes to interference complaints, tower height etc just because towns and cities do not have jurisdiction in these cases. Sounds like a slippery slope to me.
On the other hand I would like to see the FCC take some aggressive steps towards shutting down the bootleggers on 10 meters. I think we'd all buy tickets to go watch a DOT / FCC inspection team work their way through a truckstop parking lot. Should be a lot of fun. Radios and Amps being confiscated, citations being handed out, prostitutes running for the hills, it would beat a circus coming to town.
I believe that the 10 meter / CB problem is somewhat like the "war on drugs" in that as long as there is a demand for illegal amps and modified radios, someone will provide them. Warning letters or even fines to the companies providing these things will not greatly affect the problem. The unlawful user of these devices have long felt safe from enforcement and only when they fear great financial loss from having these things will they start pulling the radios out of their rigs.
IMHO as always, and I could be wrong
Doug KD5VHZ
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by K3GI on July 20, 2004
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There are some good observations and comments here. One thing that might help is to contact the American Trucking Associations, Inc. (ATA) and voice your opinions to them. Their address is:
American Trucking Associations, Inc.
2200 Mill Road
Alexandria, VA 22314-4677
I have passed out the notices published on the ARRL's website about truckers being sent letters from Riley to the Delaware Motor Transport Association (DMTA) and ATA. DMTA put it in their newsletter. I haven't seen any reaction from ATA. With enough attention they might want to issue an advisory to their members or publish an article in their weekly magazine, Transport Topics.
Trucking companies don't want their drivers doing anything that could get the attention of the FCC or any other government agency.
Also, get on the CW portion and call CQ. You might have some fun while discouraging illegal use.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KD4AC on July 20, 2004
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It's sad to see this problem still exists. I haven't been on the air since moving here to Tampa (still trying to find a neighborhood that DOESN'T have deed restrictions) so I don't know how 10 meters sounds here. But back in CA, I came across SEVERAL truckers using AM between 28.500 and 29.000 MHz. You could tell they were truckers... they all had echo mics and roger beeps. I've seen a lot of people say a lot of these transmissions are coming from south of the border, and that may be true, but every transmission I ever heard were in english.
I just started calling CQ on whatever frequency they were on. I know some disagree with this, but the way I look at it you can't interfere with someone who isn't supposed to be there in the first place. After a few minutes, the offenders moved... to another 10 meter frequency. At which point, I and the other person would QSY to that frequency. Eventually the truckers got the message and moved out of the band.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by OBSERVER11 on July 20, 2004
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Id be willing to bet if the FCC hadnt let this go for nearly 30 years the problem wouldnt be nearly as widespread as it is now."
I'd take that bet, as the problem was much more widespread 30 years ago than it is now.
Best estimates are that in 1974 there were 10 *million* licensed CB users, and an unknown number more unlicensed ones in the US.
Best estimates are that in 2004 there are about 100,000 CB users, total, in the US. <<<<<<<<<<<
IP...
PAY UP!
In 1974, CB's were 23 channel (24 if you cut the ground that pulled Ch22A out of the mix), they were crystal synthesized and the only way to get them out of band was to pull the xtals and replace them... Then came CPI with a "99 channel" CB, CPI was betting on the FCC to open the then current 23 channels up to 27.995, so CPI produced a radio that was 99 channel ready, with everything about 23 blocked. These radios were very hard to find and very expensive.
The most common way to get on the "uppers" was to buy a Henry/Spectronics Tempo One (Yaesu Musen FT-200), A Swan/Siltronics 1011 or a Kacrina 6/10. I have seen guys using Drake Twins too, since in transceive, you transmit off the RX PTO.
So, as you can see, this was NOT a common thing in 1974, it was not until long after the 40 channel change over, and this really started to beome a problem when "export model" CB's and cheaply built "10 meter only" transceivers started arriving.
As for the FCC, you can lay that albatross squarely at the feet of Jimmy Carter and his cheap wife "first mama".
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K1CJS on July 20, 2004
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Posted earlier:
"What I believe should happen is for congress to give local law enforcement the authority to enforce such laws as possessing and / or using "linears" or radios that operate on frequencies that you are not licensed for. This was talked about a few years ago and was supposedly put before congress but i don't know what happened past that."
Think about this one--if such a law was passed and you, as a ham, forgot your license or ID and was nabbed for having a radio in your car, you'd be arrested and have your radios confiscated (or worse, destroyed).
This was thought about and discarded. There are a lot of legitimate users who have radios in their possession (such as volunteer firemen) for good reason.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 20, 2004
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I don't think all y'all have been reading my prior posts in this thread. Congress DID pass the law
and many states have passed enabling legislation.
For North Carolina's see:
AN ACT TO PREVENT THE USE OF CITIZENS BAND RADIO
EQUIPMENT NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION
www.ncleg.net/html2003/bills/AllVersions/House/
H257vc.html
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K1CJS on July 20, 2004
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What is really needed is to supply a list of the illegal equipment to the enforcement officials. When a truck (or car for that matter) is stopped, check the radios and other equipment in it against the list. If there's one of the illegal ones there, impound the sucker and arrest the person.
Better yet, send enforcement around to the truck stops and CB huts, confiscating those illegal radios before they're even sold. If there's any court arguments, bring in the feds and enforce the regulations.
That'll put a big dent into the problem.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K1CJS on July 20, 2004
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WA4MJF:
That law is a step in the right direction, but it could lead to problems--how about some small town sheriff that doesn't know (or maybe doesn't care) about what kind of radio is in a car. His or her thoughts: [It looks like a CB, it may be illegal, I'm not going to take the chance, I'll arrest them now.]
We can't claim ignorance of the law, but you'd be surprised how often they can claim it!!
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 20, 2004
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Well, dispite the Andy Griffith Show,
we don't have town Sheriffs in NC.
We have county Sheriffs and most don't
touch traffic laws with a ten feet pole.
Could make the voters angry and not re-elect
them.
The NCSHP does most of the traffic enforcement
outside of town and cities. They're pretty smart guys and gals and most know a CB radio when they see one.
The same can be said for most police officers.
(I was a state LEO, but am retired now.)
The law exempts licensed radio users, so all
one that is licensed would need to do is show
their FCC license to the officer and the Federal
Law which allows states to regulate CB says,
that the state/local officers can go no further
with FCC licensees,
other than consult with the FCC, if they think
something is amiss.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 20, 2004
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I left out that if they were as
careless as K1CJS suggests, they would
leave them open to a state false arrest
civil suit and a Federal Crimminal Charge
(ten year felony)of
Violation of Civil Rights under Colour of
Law.
Most officers don't want that so they be
very careful :-)
73 de Ronnie
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by W1BAK on July 20, 2004
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There is a simple solution to stopping illegal 10 meter usage. Stop trying to chase down every illegal operator. You'll never win. Just make it illegal to sell or repair one to anyone who is unlicensed as a ham. And keep records of sales or repair. Eventually, only licensed hams will own them. HRO only sells to licensed hams, why can't everyone else do the same? Yeh..I know there will be some greedy sob ham who will sell under the table but it will surely help cut back on illegal usage.
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by KF4R on July 20, 2004
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The current problems on the CB band are a direct result of the in-action of the FCC to accomadate the growth of users of the service.About 15 years ago there was a rules proposal that would have eliminated AM and lower side band from the CB band and set channel spacing at every 5KC's.This would eliminate the carrier "hetrodyne" interferance and result in greater range and communications effectivness and,in theory,remove the incentive to operate outside of the band.But the FCC dropped the ball and the changes were never approved.Had this been done the number of AM transmitters on the air would be small today and the CB landscape would be a very differant.
Still,the FCC has no plan to modernize the service which will accomidate the number of users now and into the future.Given that part 95 is a domestic service it should not require international treaty's to update the tech specs for CB transmitters to eliminate AM and LSB operation as the old proposal called for.IF only 12 watt USB only rigs operating on 5Kc channel spacing from 26.9 to 27.4 were to be the only thing type accepted after the rule is passed,then when the existing installed base of am rigs die in 5 years or so,things will clean up consierably and the incentive to run out of band is gone!Why the FCC did not pass this when first proposed is beyond me,but its never to late
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by N9AVY on July 20, 2004
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This is a problem created by the FCC's inability to deal with Class D CB enforcement. It might have been stopped when the FCC had the budget and manpower to do the job, but now it's too late. The illegal CBers & freebanders have nothing but contemp for FCC and it's rules. As far as they're concerned, the FCC is a "toothless old dog".
The solution to stopping this illegal activity would be in having the manpower to stop and search every truck (and other vehicle)for illegal transmitting equipment. In conjunction with that, every CB shop and truck stop should also be searched. In either case, illegal equipment should be seized as well as vehicles (same as for drug dealers). Imagine a trucker having to explain to his boss that the company's truck was seized becuase HE was using an illegal transmitter ? So, a few truckers would lose their jobs (better than fines!) and word would get around that the FCC means business. In the words of Tony Baretta, " If you can't do the time, don't do the crime...".
Of course, none of this would ever happen because the courts are more concerned with "rights" than what's right.
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by N9AVY on July 20, 2004
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W1BAK .... Nice thought, but you need to visit a hamfest and see all the CBers buying/selling ham equipment. How do you stop them ? Ask to see an Amateur License as a condition of admission ?
Jerry N9AVY
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WB2WIK on July 20, 2004
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The UHF FM license-free services provide much nicer, higher fidelity, noise-free 2-way inter-vehicle communications and really should have obsoleted the 27 MHz CRS a long time ago. The fact that this has not occurred is a clear indicator that "trucker (and other) CBers" are having fun working DX that can't be worked on UHF, in clear violation of law and intent for that service.
That this continues, along with the proliferation of all sorts of products sold into the gray and black CB market, implies nobody gives a crap about it.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 20, 2004
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Well, gentlemen, here's the situation as I see it. Yes, it is a major fault of FCC (which they sort of :)
admit). During the time they were "AWOL", we begged and pleaded for enforcement--often to no avail. Finally, arguably too little, too late, the sleeping giant, er uh, agency has begun to stir. We have more
enforcement activity than in the past. We have a VERY enthusiastic protagonist for Amateur Radio in the person of Riley Hollingsworth. He has demonstrated that he WILL act upon reports of unlicensed operations as well as complaints both inside and outside Amateur Radio. He has, amazingly IMHO, been slammed and criticized by hams themselves for his "lack" or effort. How much can one man do? He has to deal with a myriad of agenda, and FCC has more fish to fry than *just* ham radio. I know most of us realize that.
Over a year ago, Riley asked hams to get out there and actively seek out these unlicensed truckers. He gave specific instructions as to HOW to go about snaring the illegals. That was in---what? April/May of last year? To date few truckers have gotten warned or cited. OH, we snared a few "big" fish like UPS and FedEx. UPS then OUTLAWED export 'reddios' in their trucks! How many drivers did that shut down on 10 Meters? Potentially hundreds! It did two things: 1) it stopped those drivers that *were*, or may have been operating on "them extree channels thar", and 2) it widened the awareness of drivers that might been thinking of getting one of those Galaxy reddiddos at
Pilot Truck Stop.
What did *some* hams do? They whined, b*&^%#ed, cried
"it won't help", "FCC isn't doing this, FCC ain't doin' that". Some of them sent reports to Riley that were patently ridiculous like..............
"I heered this trucker on 10 meters today". "I sent in a report about a trucker I seen the other day, and never heered a word". (POUT!) So I am going to take my toys and go home" BAAWWWWWWWWWWWL! WAAAAAAAAAHH!
Why did they not get action from FCC or Riley, et. al.? Because they sent in stupid information, that's why!! I mean, DUH!!!!!!!!! They cannot act without accurate, to-the-point information, that's why. RH told me personally that you would be surprised at the non-usable material hams send in!!!!! (If it, weren't OTH, so sad it would be funny!)
Riley left the door wide open for US--that's right, YOU, ME, ALL of us to DO something about the problem.
And, folks, THAT isn't sitting on our penguin butts griping in a newsgroup or website about what someone ELSE is not doing about intruders on our frequencies.
Yes! It might not work totally. But it is REALITY, folks. It is what we have to work with. It is what FCC ASKED us to do. If we don't do it, what message does that send to FCC? That we aren't interested enough to try to KEEP what we worked for?
Many of us have HF mobiles, right? I don't fault you if you don't; I think there are enough to do the job.
Even if you don't have HF privileges yet, but have an
HF rig (even of one those abominable "export" radios YIKES! ;) ), put it the car and go out there and "hunt". Those who have multiple antennas and "unusual" antennas are particularly attractive to the militant CB trucker (you know, the guys that have them BIG COIL antanners, thar). They can't resist commenting on your mobile or attempting to call you on their 'reddido thar'.
Many of you drive to work and back each day. Or you run errands in your car. Turn on that rig (HF) and just listen. Cruise down the interstate while commuting. Don't say anything at all to them. If you see a driver transmitting and the timing and what is being said coincides, write down the company name, TRACTOR tag # on the FRONT bumper usually (not trailer tag), DOT number on the side of the door, date/time, direction of travel, milepost, and frequency he's transmitting on. Send this data to rholling@fcc.gov. If your info is accurate, he WILL act and send a warning letter to the company. It is easier to keep a little tape recorder in the car (one of those little pocket thingys). It is obviously safer, and that little recorder looks like a "mike". The driver will assume you are talking on your "reddiddo" (thar). If he sees you writing something down, he may become suspicious and even try to run you off the road. With the little recorder, he will never know what you are doing!
IF just ONE ham accurately reports ONE trucker, that's one less. If he nails TWO, that's two. Two hams nail 3 drivers, that's SIX. 20 determined hams in the entire nation, just 20, nailing and reporting
3 each = SIXTY drivers a-tawkin' on them extree channels thar, and then being silenced as their companys' safety directors send out a memo to all their drivers that such radios must be removed or face dismissal! This number increase as drivers tell each other over coffee at the truck stop that, "That ole &*%$# FCC made us take our 10 Meter reddios out!"
Drivers tell each other in turn, and so on and so on.
We CAN do something. Don't adopt that "it's-someone else's job", or "its too late". It is NOT too late if we quit sitting around b%$#@ing and start DOING something.
If you can't get out on the roads, look up trucking company emails and send them copies of ARRL Letter reports of recent busts. Explain the illegality of it, and how it can cause trouble for the company, then tell them a simple memo can prevent problems should just one of their drivers get caught transmitting on the 10 Meter band. Many of them will answer you and thank you for the heads up!
Sit down and compile a list of those illegal CB and Amplifier dealers and send it to fccinfo@fcc.gov. This was recently requested by FCC as per ARRL Letter.
If you are angry, as I am, at the theft of our precious bands (as if we didn't have other things to worry about such as BPL), then DO something! Don't tell me there aren't enough hams to have an effect on this problem. DON'T depend on someone ELSE to do it. The bands are OURS--just as that beachhouse you bought years ago is YOURS. Would you allow someone to pry open a window and let them squat rent-free?
"(para) The best way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!"
TAN FER THAR? ;)
73
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K3OY on July 20, 2004
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I agree with quite a few of your comments regarding the intrusion of unlicensed truckers into the 10-meter amateur radio bands. However, you must consider the great line from the movie Jerry McGuire, ‘Show me the money’. And that is where the problem lies.
Large export / import brokers and retailers, as most special interests do, have connections at the core of government – it’s a fact of life, get use to it. The sale of radio equipment whether it’s for commercial, military or citizens band, represents a lot of money. Do you think for a minute, government officials who are courted everyday by lobbyists and industry specific groups who represent cold hard cash and support are willing to listen to a small minority contingent of users of the RF spectra, i.e. hams? Not, or a very slim possibility! Hams are a small minority in the scheme of things.
Now having said that, we as the minority may have a trump card to pull from the deck – improper use of any of the RF spectra should be considered as a potential threat to national security, as potential terrorists have easy access to radio equipment that could be used to interfere with the entire spectra.
First, to purchase any radio-transmitting device capable of more than 50 milliwatts, the buyer is proper licensed by the FCC for the type and class of radio being purchased. The licensee must pay a reasonable fee ($25-$50), to the FCC for such license and prove nationality and legal residence – I know this might be very controversial but, if you want your rights under our law, we must restrict those who do not have such rights and privileges. This may not work in California where illegal aliens have full and unfettered access. Stores who sell such equipment must also be federally licenses – a simple $100 per year tax stamp will do.
Second, any illegal use of such radio transmission equipment should be considered an immediate and potential threat to national security and penalties, including arrest, fines, forfeiture of equipment and possible loss of personal and or private property, including Commercial Drivers License, (truck and contents), in the case of truckers, and loss of real property in the situation of home based CB’er. The first load of goods seized by federal agents and the loss of a CDL for a period of a year, would fix a lot of our 10 meter encroachment problems.
Third, the revenues derived from the licensing fees and forfeiture sales of seized goods and property should be used to setup and maintain monitoring locations for the purpose of detecting improper use of the bands, and this especially includes hams that knowingly abuse their rights and privileges. An Orwellian state, not really, we just need to start enforcing what laws we’ve got and we need to add more teeth to the current laws on the books.
Fourth, radio clubs and organizations that are recognized by Home Land Security, may conduct such monitoring activities and report such occurrences to both the FCC and Home Land Security as a volunteer organization.
Fifth, Any company, importer, or individual who sells, provides or modifies any radio transmission equipment to operate in violation of the law, shall incur penalties of $10,000 for each occurrence, plus appropriate jail time or deportation of aliens who operate such businesses or business activities.
The government will always have the excuse they don’t have the resources (money and people) to achieve their stated missions. I argue, we had the militiamen in Concord when we faced the British. Little has changed, we need to become the modern day militiamen and women protecting the spectra from those who chose not to operate by the rules. The rules, you know, the ones we Americans live and die by everyday.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KC5SAS on July 20, 2004
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The FCC could stop much of this if they wanted to. The fact is that those operating illeagal radios and linears don't fear the FCC because it has failed to do anything in the past.
You want to see an extreme side of CB? Try RF shootouts. Radios pushing 70,000watts powered by supersized alternators. Take a second and go to this website and watch a couple of the videos they have there. http://www.bigradios.com/avis/
Several of the contestants were sending out enough RF to cause the video recorder to shutdown and pop the tape out. These shootouts are publicised in advance and nothing is stopping the FCC from sending out representitives to these gatherings to inspect equiptment. They simply don't do it. The same people who build these big rigs for the shootouts often have websites where they sell the equiptment, (Radios, antennas etc), which they proudly proclaim it is "easy to put on 10 meters".
Go to the website, watch the vids and tell me the FCC shouldn't be investigating the people who sell these products. I await your comments.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 20, 2004
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>>> IF just ONE ham accurately reports ONE trucker, that's one less. If he nails TWO, that's two. Two hams nail 3 drivers, that's SIX. <<<
The trouble with this way of thinking is that problem resolution goes well beyond just reporting them to the FCC. You may catch 6 people however redhanded, however there is still the question of effectively prosecuting them that still remains.
Even when caught red handed by a licensed radio amateur, That individual remains "innocent until proving guilty" in the eyes of the law.
I somehow suspect that it could be argued in a persons defense that making "false or destructive accusations" about a persons actions (regardless if the accusations are true or not) is somehow putting yourself in a position of civil liability.
...Peronally, I would be very careful if you are treading anywhere in this area.
For example; If the illegal CB operators lawyer somehow has acquired knowledge or information that you have personally invoked these "accusations" and reported the CB operator to the FCC in some malicious attempt to "discredit" the person.
Other considerations:
How much government allocated FCC money does it cost to prosecute these people on an individual basis?
Is it more cost effective to prosecute entire groups, companies and product manufacturers instead?
Are taxpayer dollars effectively being spent in a manner that is consistent with the interests of the public majority in mind?
What are the FCC agencies current agenda and priorities as far as the needs of the general public are concerned today?
Does removing 1 illegal CB bootlegger person off the 10 meter band equate to solving the entire problem at hand?
... Perhaps this and similar questions will answer why this problem has existed for so long, and explain why it still remains an unsolved mystery for so many years now.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 20, 2004
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To KC8VWM -- so we should wring our hands and do nothing?
Riley has asked for our help. He wants good data.
To the extent that we can help him, we should help him.
Not sit on our behinds and worry about being sued.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 20, 2004
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"You may catch 6 people however redhanded, however there is still the question of effectively prosecuting them that still remains."
There isn't "prosecution" per se in FCC violations. The FCC issues a citation, to which the accused responds. The FCC considers the response, and then issues an NAL if it is warranted.
"Even when caught red handed by a licensed radio amateur, That individual remains "innocent until proven guilty" in the eyes of the law."
There's a different burden of proof involved with FCC violations. Instead of "innocent until proven guilty" the tone of most enforcement letters is akin to that of "we have this evidence, can you give us a reason we shouldn't fine you?"
I suppose we don't see more forfeitures simply because the people gathering this info are not FCC employees. We can bring it to the attention of the FCC and make them aware of what a person or company is doing, and all the FCC can do is issue a warning letter based upon our information. Not until the agents show up and see it for themselves will anyone have to fork over any money.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 20, 2004
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To KC8VWM -- so we should wring our hands and do nothing?
Hi KORFD,
No, I am not suggesting we do nothing.
I am all for the FCC, Mr. Riley, and the many individuals from Amateur Radio community who volunteer their personal efforts and time to assist with these recent enforcement efforts.
I am just left with this empty and unanswered question;
"Will this be enough?"
I am wondering if we need to stand back and reevaluate this problem from a different angle. Perhaps then, we will find a more permanent solution to this reoccuring problem that will REALLY work.
Thanks for listening.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K3GI on July 20, 2004
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K4KWH, very well put. Most motor carriers do not want their drivers drawing the attention (whether or not it results in a conviction) of any goverment agency. Notifying the carrier about illegal driver activity will in most cases (unfortunately not all) result in the radio being removed. Your other points are appropriate also.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 20, 2004
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"I suppose we don't see more forfeitures simply because the people gathering this info are not FCC employees. We can bring it to the attention of the FCC and make them aware of what a person or company is doing, and all the FCC can do is issue a warning letter based upon our information."
Hi KE4MOB,
I tend to agree with your assertion that the end result may not actually amount to anything actually being done from a legal or long term enforcement standpoint.
In other words, a warning letter hardly qualifies and would most certainly not result in any formal or criminal charges brought up against the person in question.
This is precisely where we may be exposing ourselves to a Grey area.
I was somewhat concerned with the legal response coming from the CB operator's lawyer as a result of our "enforcement" actions taken if such a matter were addressed in a civil prosecution matter.
The prosecuting lawyer may deem our actions as a form of personal "harassment" against the individual unless it can be prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person was guilty of a criminal offense as defined in the legal context.
If the FCC does not formally charge any of these individuals citing any "criminal acts" or "legal violations" against them, then our so called enforcement activities may be "misunderstood" if and when such a matter were ever brought up for resolution between these private individuals in a civil court. (Amateur Operator vs. Illegal CB'er)
No offense intended, but in other simplified legal defining words: "If we don't intend to S***, then we need to get off the pot."
This is why I feel that without positive FCC backing and formal charges being brought up against these individuals, our mild mannered and well intended assistance efforts might very well subject us to the use of our own Wouff-Hong and Rettysnitch device being against ourselves if we happen to someday run across the wrong CB'er personality, who happens to have the right lawyer.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N7UQA on July 20, 2004
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KC5SAS wrote:
“You want to see an extreme side of CB? Try RF shootouts. Radios pushing 70,000watts powered by super sized alternators. Take a second and go to this website and watch a couple of the videos they have there. http://www.bigradios.com/avis/”
Here's a little quick and dirty RF exposure math that SHOULD make one at a CB shootout think.
For the moment let's assume the following:
Power output is 70 Kw
Antenna height is 10'
Antenna gain in unity (0) dB
Frequency 27.000 Mhz
Ground reflections are calculated in.
Estimated RF power density is 153.4966 mw/cm2
MPE controlled 1.24 mw/cm2
MPE uncontrolled 0.25 mw/cm2
The first value is exceeded by 123.7875 times
The second value is exceeded by 613.9864 times
Minimum distance for a controlled environment 111.55 feet
Minimum distance for a uncontrolled environment 249.38 feet
Now from the video, most of the spectators were around 70 feet from the RF source, except the guys in the vehicles and the person standing between them who are at ground zero. While this was certainly interesting, it is dangerous and I wouldn't want to be exposed to such RF fields. I just wonder if any of them ever develop cancer or other health problems.
Craig - N7UQA
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 20, 2004
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KC8VWM Wrote:
>"Will this be enough?"
You never know what's been enough until you've been successful.
If we all sit around waiting for the "perfect" solution, we'll get nothing done.
We know the deck is stacked against us, pirates don't use callsigns, and the vagaries of 10-meter propagation being what they are, a pirate can be 2000 miles away and and sound like he's next door or be on the next block and sound like he's halfway around the world. But when those of us who use 10 meters have clear, unambiguous evidence, we should send it in as we've been asked to do. That's far preferable to asking rhetorical "Will we ever succeed?" questions.
We sure as hell won't succeed if we don't try. That's a given.
Same way with BPL. We should all be setting the stage for our own future interference complaints by recording noise levels every time we turn on the radio, NOW, *BEFORE* BPL comes into our communities, so we can say just what is and what isn't interference later on when we need to.
We can either take action about what's threatening our bands or we can sit here jawing about it on the internet.
Reminds me of the story about the old boy who takes the Game Warden out fishing with him. The old boy rows out to his favorite hole, reaches under the seat of the boat, pulls out a stick of dynamite, lights it, throws it in the water where it promptly explodes. The guy grabs a net and starts scooping dead fish into the boat. The Game Warden says "What are you doing? Don't you know that's illegal?" The guy reaches under the seat, grabs another stick of dynamite, lights it, hands it to the Game Warden and asks "You gonna talk or fish?"
So, with regard to 10 meters, are we gonna talk or fish?
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on July 20, 2004
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Aaah quit your whinning. What are you gonna do about all the illegal transmissions coming from Mexico and South America on 10 meters. Is Riley going to go down south and tell them boys they can't do that because its illegal. I don't think so.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KE4ZHN on July 20, 2004
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And another point I might add to this thread if I may. Even if the FCC busted every single trucker and US pirate using the 10 mtr. band, how would you deal with the thousands of spanish stations pirating south of the border out of FCC jurisdiction? The times I spent on 10 mtr. working DX I noticed more illegal no callsign pirates coming from South America and Mexico then US truckers! 10 mtrs. has been a hot spot for pirates for many years and no amount of FCC enforcement will totally clean it up. Sounds nice in theory, but its never going to happen.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 20, 2004
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Following that logic, I suppose the cops shouldn't go after bank robbers because some of them get away.
You gotta start somewhere.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 20, 2004
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So what about the Mexican and South American pirates?
Last time I checked, it was illegal to transmit above 28 Mhz without a license *here* in the US.
This shouldn't be too hard of a question to answer...either you are for defending our spectrum...or you are not. Simple as that.
It's really funny...two or three articles ago, quite a few people gave a certain ham down the road for transmitting CW verses from the Bible on 7.030 24/7. But now, hey, we shouldn't do anything about an illegal using the lower part of 10 meters...
Whose side are we on, anyway???
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by NN7B on July 20, 2004
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Well, if you express your concerns in writing, it does help. Last year I wrote a few letters. To my state representative in congress, Mr. Riley Hollingsworth and the President of T-A Truckstops. It seems as thought their truckstop stores were selling CB radios AND 10-meter radios side-by-side in the showcase. Well, Duh, if you can buy a 10-meter radio that is a lot less crowded and allows a wide band of frequencies for the same price as a 40-channel CB, why not? Logic to the truckers says, "How are they going to catch me, I'm always on the move..."
But, last fall, without a response from The T-A President or Mr. Hollingsworth, the 10-meter radios were no longer found in their truckstops. I have been to four of them in this part of the country and none had 10-meter radios for sale. The radios are still out there but, they are no longer easy access to buy on the road. Most are made by one of the leading CB radio manufacturers and they should be ashamed since they marked and target the truckers with no regard as to their 'legal' or illegal use. Just too tempting to those who could care less as to who they interfered with or whether some 'rules' say YOU can' do that....
Just my two cents. It's a problem. It will always be a problem even with strong enforcement efforts, it will continue to be a problem. I would suggest that we fine those who get caught enough to compensate for the $$$ the FCC wants to charge us 'legal' hams for vanity call signs. ;)
73, Paul Cavnar - NN7B
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by N0UVV on July 20, 2004
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IT IS TOO FUNNY.. IT SEEMS MANY HAMS ARE SO CONCERNED WITH WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING, WHAT SAYS WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT ANOTHER PERSON DOES IN ANOTHER COUNTRY,, PEOPLE SPEND SO MUCH TIME IN THIS WORLD WORRYING ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT GUY DOES THAT HE MISSES THE POINT OF ALL OF THE GOOD THINGS IN LIFE. LOOK AT ALL THE FREQUEICIES WE ARE ABLE TO USE AND THERE ARE MANY WHO SPEND SO MUCH TIME WORRYING ABOUT A FEW FREQUENCIES WHEN THEY COULD SPEND ALL OF THAT TIME WISELY AND GO TO ANOTHER FREQUENCY AND HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE LEARNING SOMETHING NEW AND HAVING A GREAT CONVERSATION..
TONY T.
N0UVV
;-)
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 20, 2004
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I am just left with this empty and unanswered question;
"Will this be enough?"
<Q>
Not if we sit around on a forum and do NOTHING!
73
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 20, 2004
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You missed my point entirely! I thought I made it clear that, IF ONE ham turns ACCURATE info to RH, then that generates a Letter of Warning. (See ARRL Letter archives). That letter of warning doesn't just affect the ONE driver; it affects his company and ALL its drivers. So, if the letter causes a company to issue a memo prohibiting illegal equipment in its trucks as UPS did, then there could be as many as 100
drivers who get the word that they cannot operate those 10 Meter "reddios" in their trucks. Yes, it seems small and insignificant. But if just 10 hams cause a letter of warning to ONE driver, then think of how many could be potentially affected by it. One ham, one company, 50 drivers (just an arbitrary figure), there is 5 HUNDRED drivers that could learn that, hey, FCC DOES have teeth after all!
There ARE some more citations coming, folks. Most of them generated by US---the US that was willing to get out and do a bit of leg work. How many drivers work for UPS? I'm told it was just one or two hams in Ohio that caused UPS to get warned. Their policy now is, according to ARRL Letter, if you get caught with one one of 'them thar 10 Meter reddios', yer FIRED!!! How about FedEx? I don't know how they handled it, but they also got warned. If a company chooses to ignore the letter and continue to allow their drivers to run illegal radios, then whoa Nelly, look out Isaah! Do you think a company would risk $$$$$$ rather than put out a simple memo to its drivers ("Effective immediately, any driver found, upon inspection, in possession of the following equipment is subject to suspension or dismissal. All such equipment must be removed from our fleet at once, etc. etc")?
Think about what it would be like if motivated hams DID exactly what Riley asked us to do! What if we could "touch" 100 companies? A thousand companies times 100 drivers=100,000 drivers who have gotten the word.
That is what, I believe, FCC was after when they asked us to go after the drivers. They don't HAVE the people it would take in today's radio environment
to cope with it. But WE can do the volunteer legwork!
We drive to work, right? We travel on vacation, right? WE run errands, right? There is no danger to the volunteer if he follows the posted directions. Keep quiet! Don't say a word! Use accurate data such as what is being said ("That car shore has enuff
an-tanners thar", "'Preciate it, there, l'il car{after
flashing your lights to let him merge over}. Quietly record the data on a little pocket tape recorder. If the tractor tag #, DOT #, and frequency are accurate, the FCC will send a letter to the company. Believe it or not, most reputable trucking companies take a dim view of illegal activies on their drivers' parts.
You, OTH, have NO liability. It is no more than reporting a driver that makes an unsafe move (cuts you off deliberately?) in traffic. The responsi-bility accrues to the FCC whose job it is handle it.
Finally, let me ask this. What are you going to do when (it's only a matter of time) when the truckers begin beeping and squeaking on 17 Meters? Or 20 Meters? Even 40 Meters? Will you continue to criticize, complain, talk about how it's too late, etc, etc, OR will you get out there and do one simple thing. NOW is the time to act. Even if we were to fail (and I don't think we will IF we A C T), it will
not be because we sat on our (ahem) and did nothing at all but whine, whine. Catch ONE driver yakking on
10 Meters. Report ONE CB/Export dealer to fccinfo. Look on the web and email trucking companies and tell them/ask them to please prevent their drivers from breaking the law. Nobody is asking you to do it all. Just take the time to do ONE thing to protect Amateur Radio. If we don't, one day the unwashed masses will knock down the fences and invade/ruin a proud and valuable tradition. It IS what they want anyway.
Please help!!
73
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 20, 2004
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Aaah quit your whinning. What are you gonna do about all the illegal transmissions coming from Mexico and South America on 10 meters. Is Riley going to go down south and tell them boys they can't do that because its illegal. I don't think so.
<Q>
(Sigh) I hear this tired argument all the time. It is NOT our problem to police what goes on OUTSIDE the USA. That spanish stuff is a matter of ITU T R E A T Y
and is handled thru negotiation.
(Tan fer thar?)
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by VK6AV on July 20, 2004
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Perhaps there is a different perspective. We seem to have identified a group of people interested in HF communication. How about targeting advertising for amateur radio courses to this group and include them in the fraternity? I suspect that with some training and insights into real ham radio, they would make a great addition to the hobby. Worth a shot??
Harris VK6AV VE6DK
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 20, 2004
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Why would they want to test for a Ham license when they can go to a truck stop and get on the air illegally?
Not sure this is the right group to target as future hams.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KF6JZC on July 21, 2004
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If it is of any help, maybe identifying some of these shops might help stop this (or maybe not). I know for a fact that the Loves Truck stop in Fernley Nevada sells 10 Meter radios by Regency. These units are mixed in with the CB gear. I suspect that it is on purpose that these units are mixed together. Now either the truck stop doesn't know or doesn't care that a ham license is required to use the Regency 10 meter units. These units by-the-way transmit virtually all standard modes (cw, ssb, am, fm).
On a trip with my wife from California to Idaho, we stopped at this truck stop. I told the sales people for the truck stop part that a ham license was required to use these radios. I might just as well have been talking to a brick wall. So I suspect that they don't care. Perhaps some of the Nevada hams (Reno/Sparks area) might be interested in this and do a little research.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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About truckstop 10m rigs:
1) It's not illegal to sell them.
2) It's not illegal to own them.
3) It's not illegal to install them in a truck.
4) I know a bunch of truckers who are licensed.
How many you ask? Enough that I've worked 47 US states via 18-wheeler contacts, including, as of last night, Alaska and Hawaii.
Maybe y'all ought to set aside some of your prejuidices against truckers -- many of whom, by the way are successful small businessmen -- and get on the air some more?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"Aaah quit your whinning. What are you gonna do about all the illegal transmissions coming from Mexico and South America on 10 meters."
Are you sure they're illegal?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"HRO only sells to licensed hams, why can't everyone else do the same?"
HRO sells to unlicensed individuals.
It would be short sighted of them not to. Especially since they sell SWL gear.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"The UHF FM license-free services provide much nicer, higher fidelity, noise-free 2-way inter-vehicle communications and really should have obsoleted the 27 MHz CRS a long time ago. The fact that this has not occurred is a clear indicator that "trucker (and other) CBers" are having fun working DX that can't be worked on UHF, in clear violation of law and intent for that service."
Or rather, it's a clear indication that
a) UHF FM license-free services have very small operating range when compared to the *legal* operating range of CB
and
b) why give up usable, legally operating CBs and spend money on radios that have a fraction of the *legal* range?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"[...]
So, as you can see, this was NOT a common thing in 1974, it was not until long after the 40 channel change over, and this really started to beome a problem when "export model" CB's and cheaply built "10 meter only" transceivers started arriving."
And this has to do with the decline of CB radio from an estimated 15 million in '74 to an estimated 100,000 today, in what way?
Or are you trying to tell us that those 100K CBers today are all out there making trouble in the 10m band?
"As for the FCC, you can lay that albatross squarely at the feet of Jimmy Carter and his cheap wife "first mama"."
Ah, Congress' directing the FCC to get out of the CB enforcement business *after* CB had become a mess is Jimmy Carter's wife Rosyln's fault?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N9AVY on July 21, 2004
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Actually, it may be illegal for truckstops and others to sell those little Galaxy 10 meter radios because they are not type-accepted for use in the U.S.A. There was a bit about this a while back in Riley's FCC Reports over at ARRL site. Seems to me if they are illegal to operate here they ought to be illegal to import or sell. Maybe the U.S. Customs people need to get involved in this one ?
The point of RF exposure was brought up and I've often wondered about that. Most of those truckers are siting within 2 - 3 feet of an antenna and if they are running 100+ watts they may be exposing themselves to unacceptable levels of RF. If more truckers start dropping dead from RF caused cancer, perhaps there be more jobs available for those who are unemployed.
As for those 10 meter stations South of the border, most of them are DEA and CIA informants. (That ought to make a few disappear now !).
Jerry N9AVY
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KD4LLA on July 21, 2004
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Thanks for stating that "cars drivers" are the main fault in truck-car accidents. If car drivers only had to follow "hours of service rules." The other problem I saw when I drove a semi-truck is that 75% of ALL vehicle drivers are talking on the cell phone these days. I took a Greyhound bus to South Carolina and after the second stop the bus driver was on the phone for 30 minutes while we were headed down the interstate!
Mike KD4LLA
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 21, 2004
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We seem to have identified a group of people interested in HF communication. How about targeting advertising for amateur radio courses to this group and include them in the fraternity?
VK6AV,
I can appreciate your open minded thought on the matter.
But..., I am not so sure if everyone will agree if sending an invitation to a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing to have dinner with the sheep community will necessarily be in our bests interests.
However, it does seem like an interesting proposal...
73
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on July 21, 2004
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There are certain matters that NOBODY can change.
There will be nuclear isotopes in every tabbaco
product for the next 5000 years, because of nuclear testing done in the 1950's.
The World Trade center attack has left asbestos and Berrylium Oxide in many New Yorkers lungs.
So, the freeband problem is put in perspective for me.
Unless the ultra most draconian measures are done, you will always have freebander and other illegal users of RF devices.
VFW's idea made all points clear. We could get some new hams, on the other hand we could get a trojan horse.
The OM that came up with using simplex nextel H-T's is on to something really big!
Perhaps that is good solution. Those NEXTELL simplex radio's have coast to coast coverage.
Like another poster said...Not everyone should have a ham ticket.
There has always been a very high consumer demand for cheap wireless communications.
Perhaps an amnesty program for illegal truck users.
Turn in your 100-1KW 10-11M rig, get X number of the new simplex Nextel cell phones.
Nextel could have a real niche market! They can modify the simplex service to a CB like talk to anybody mode!
This would solve many problems. If the NEXTELS could link up and provide a CB emulation mode......That sounds like a solution that will satisfy all.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on July 21, 2004
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There are certain matters that NOBODY can change.
There will be nuclear isotopes in every tabbaco
product for the next 5000 years, because of nuclear testing done in the 1950's.
The World Trade center attack has left asbestos and Berrylium Oxide in many New Yorkers lungs.
So, the freeband problem is put in perspective for me.
Unless the ultra most draconian measures are done, you will always have freebander and other illegal users of RF devices.
VFW's idea made all points clear. We could get some new hams, on the other hand we could get a trojan horse.
The OM that came up with using simplex nextel H-T's is on to something really big!
Perhaps that is good solution. Those NEXTELL simplex radio's have coast to coast coverage.
Like another poster said...Not everyone should have a ham ticket.
There has always been a very high consumer demand for cheap wireless communications.
Perhaps an amnesty program for illegal truck users.
Turn in your 100-1KW 10-11M rig, get X number of the new simplex Nextel cell phones.
Nextel could have a real niche market! They can modify the simplex service to a CB like talk to anybody mode!
This would solve many problems. If the NEXTELS could link up and provide a CB emulation mode......That sounds like a solution that will satisfy all.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WS4Y on July 21, 2004
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One factor is that 10 meters is in poor
condition due to being on the back side
of cycle 23. It may be 4 or 5 more years
before band gets back in shape to support
lots of DX activity. This leaves a void of
amateur activity that the CBers are exploiting.
Don't expect much will or can be done about it
short of removing 27 Mhz from CB service.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on July 21, 2004
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SORRY FOR MULIPLE POST'S. I HAVE SOME KEYBOARD AND ISP TROUBLES!!
There are certain matters that NOBODY can change.
There will be nuclear isotopes in every tabbaco
product for the next 5000 years, because of nuclear testing done in the 1950's.
The World Trade center attack has left asbestos and Berrylium Oxide in many New Yorkers lungs.
So, the freeband problem is put in perspective for me.
Unless the ultra most draconian measures are done, you will always have freebander and other illegal users of RF devices.
VFW's idea made all points clear. We could get some new hams, on the other hand we could get a trojan horse.
The OM that came up with using simplex nextel H-T's is on to something really big!
Perhaps that is good solution. Those NEXTELL simplex radio's have coast to coast coverage.
Like another poster said...Not everyone should have a ham ticket.
There has always been a very high consumer demand for cheap wireless communications.
Perhaps an amnesty program for illegal truck users.
Turn in your 100-1KW 10-11M rig, get X number of the new simplex Nextel cell phones.
Nextel could have a real niche market! They can modify the simplex service to a CB like talk to anybody mode!
This would solve many problems. If the NEXTELS could link up and provide a CB emulation mode......That sounds like a solution that will satisfy all.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 21, 2004
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"About truckstop 10m rigs:
1) It's not illegal to sell them."
It depends. The latest angle the FCC is taking is that a lot of the 10M "Amateur" radios (Galaxy, Superstar, etc) are actually "dual use" radios that can also be used to transmit on CB. They won't certify a "dual use" radio for CB, therefore it is illegal to sell because it isn't certified. I call it the "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck" approach.
"3) It's not illegal to install them in a truck."
It may not be illegal, but as many have posted, it sure can get the employers all riled up. I wonder what the Union's take on the whole matter is, since the UPS contract has a clause saying the employees may only use CB radios??
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 21, 2004
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About truckstop 10m rigs:
1) It's not illegal to sell them.
2) It's not illegal to own them.
3) It's not illegal to install them in a truck.
4) I know a bunch of truckers who are licensed.
How many you ask? Enough that I've worked 47 US states via 18-wheeler contacts, including, as of last night, Alaska and Hawaii.
Maybe y'all ought to set aside some of your prejuidices against truckers -- many of whom, by the way are successful small businessmen -- and get on the air some more?
<Q>
I got a flash for you. FCC HAS prohibited the importation and sale of the so-called 'export' radios.
There is a list of equipment on FCC's website of equipment that is not to be imported and sold. So the SALE and USE of such equipment IS illegal via FCC regulation!! If you're gonna INSTALL it in a truck, it implies USE. How else did they cite Pacetronics and a list of others if it were not illegal to sell them? Go look at one of those wonderful 'export' radios. See if it has an FCC certification sticker! It won't. Even legitimate amateur equipment has a certification for its class of operation.
NO-body is "prejudiced" against truckers as a whole. However, those truckers who engage in criminal activities (and it is just THAT now matter how you butter it), I hold in the highest contempt and will do my durnedest to make them stop operating "on them
extree channels thar SQUEEEEEEEEK!!"
And I must tell you that I have heard hams gently--and illegally making them subject to sanction--tell truckers that they are out of band, or that they must have a license. Guess what happened. They were told to go do something anatomically impossible to themselves, or they were told, "Ah bought this h'yar reddio thar an' ah'll run hit on any 'channel' ah wannna, and your FCC can go @#%^ themselves"! So your truckers do themselves no favors by either engaging in illegal activities, or using filthy language (illegal on ANY frequency) in so far as I am concerned.
A trucker is a successful businessman when he conducts himself in an honorable manner, both in word and deed. It is THEN that he earns my respect--which goes for any man or woman. And it sure is blazes won't be by stealing frequencies from me and my fellow hams.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 21, 2004
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"Even legitimate amateur equipment has a certification for its class of operation."
Ummm...are you sure about that? I thought the only thing requiring certification were HF amps....besides the receivers, which all have Part 15 certification.
I didn't think ham transmitters required certification....
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE1X on July 21, 2004
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Fellows,
The gentleman that indicated that the equipment must be certified is correct and CB equipment does as well. The problem is that this equipment can not be certified for either service because it contains frequencies which are not permitted. Amateur equipment must not be able to transmit on frequencies outside of the amateur spectrum and CB radioes must not be able to transmit outside if its allocations. It is either a CB radio or an Amateur radio, but not both.
Ken
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by PIRATE_11M on July 21, 2004
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Hi all,
Was 11m pirate since 1981. Did about 180 countries with a modified CB radio runing 10 watts with 3 element beam and rotator. Did not know anything about the technical side but learnt quick.
I got my ham license after I thought I would enjoy being legal.
Anyway more politics and crap on Ham than on 11m.
11m is more pro and less idiot forums like this one.
Ham radio is like executive CB. Only difference is same idiot operator with legal papers.
I can't believe hams think they are something special becasue of legal papers. I know many hams who can't even work out how to build a dipole never mind understand how a radio works. It's al a farce gents.
Same crap, different band with papers.
Viva 11m Freeband more pro, more activations. More DX
73
11m Pirate
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KD1HF on July 21, 2004
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Just a guess. But I think you will find the freq. being used is an adjacent freq. with the twist of the channel bank knob on the for export only radio. These radios have 5 or 6 banks of 40 channels. If you are on 27.185/channel 19 in bank c and you turn to bank d and then e it would not suprise me if you ended up on freq. mentioned in message. Some one could verify who has one of thse rigs. These radios are very availible all over the place. Just an uneducated guess. 73
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KX2S on July 21, 2004
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When are you all going to get it? The FCC wants to get rid of us. We do not provide any income.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"I got a flash for you. FCC HAS prohibited the importation and sale of the so-called 'export' radios.
There is a list of equipment on FCC's website of equipment that is not to be imported and sold."
D00D! I was responding to someone wishing to have 10M rigs confiscated, not to the dual band export rigs.
10M rigs are not on the FCC list.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"Amateur equipment must not be able to transmit on frequencies outside of the amateur spectrum"
Not true. Amateur equipment may be capable of transmiting on any frequency. However, an amateur license does not allow one to use that capability outside of ARS allocations.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by W9GOC on July 21, 2004
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"Somebody should do something about..." seems to be the nature of this thread. :-(
Amateur Radio is self-policing - - we have Official Observer stations who monitor for areas we can improve, and Every amateur operator is entitled to report infractions.
Just the other day I was reading a QST article on this same topic - - from a 1996 issue. For those of you who don't recall the details, we should:
1) log the infraction(s) that are heard.
2) make a tape recording of the infraction.
3) send the tape and the log details to the FCC.
4) we should NOT confront the transgressor.
The article stresses that the recording of the infraction is needed - - if no one hears it but you, it (essentially) didn't happen. The 1996 article says we should furnish the recording on a standard cassette tape, and we should furnish written details of date/time/frequency/location.
Yes, we should use the 10 meter band so it doesn't seem available for the taking.
We can also take advantage of the opportunity these illegal operators present for us - - real direction-finding targets, to hone our DF skills.
Find the hidden / mobile transmitter - - just like a Fox Hunt / bunny hunt / T-hunt, but with the added payoff of cleaning up illegal operations.
While the FCC DF teams have the enforcement authority we lack, _we_ have more ears focused on the band and can point the enforcement authorities in the direction that will help us retain our spectrum space.
The ARRL Handbook has fine references on DF techniques and antennas, even for HF instead of the VHF areas we usually use for our club fox hunting. And the enhanced DF skills will serve us well as we prepare for the incursion of BPL noise sources, too...
May your DF skills improve,
Frederick/W9GOC
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K0RFD on July 21, 2004
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Pirate 11M--You are the best incentive I can think of to get off my butt and start doing something about illegal operators. If I ever hear you on the air, rest assured you'll be taped and sent to the FCC.
Thanks for helping to motivate me.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by OMNIPRESSIVE on July 21, 2004
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"by K0RFD on July 21, 2004
Pirate 11M--You are the best incentive I can think of to get off my butt and start doing something about illegal operators. If I ever hear you on the air, rest assured you'll be taped and sent to the FCC.
Thanks for helping to motivate me."
I bet he's really scarred now.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 21, 2004
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"When are you all going to get it? The FCC wants to get rid of us. We do not provide any income."
If we'd quit being pains-in-the-butt, they wouldn't care about us.
Why don't we just enjoy what we have?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by CBER1289 on July 22, 2004
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to omnipressive:
i typed in your link(www.goat.cx/).i did not like what i saw.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on July 22, 2004
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Yeah,got to admit AE6IP is right. Most of the general pbblic does not even know of ham radio.
BPL could be a precurser
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by OO1TRK on July 22, 2004
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It is amazing how you all go right after Truckers. I am supprised that THEY are the big bad problem. Most of you have never sat outside a "CB" shop and watched those that go in there and buy those 10m rigs have you. It is amazing that everything wrong with 10m and CB lays squarely on the Truckers.
I got my Tech a bit ago and have logged on and read the stuff posted on this site for some time. It seems like a lot of you are bitter about a lot of things. This whole thread here seems to take it out on Truckers. As I was saying before, most 10m rigs bought at our local CB shop are bought by (ahem) 4-wheelers. And they are NOT commiting a crime by buying them. You can OWN anything out there. There is no FCC rule stopping anyone from going into HRO and buying HF, 2m or anything else that they sell. There is no rule stating that you must have a lic to buy any Ham rig.
2nd, If you think you can take the CB's away from truckers (as has been stated in this thread) you are nuts and need to be committed... First you would cause a major truck strike. (3-days and you run out of your precious milk and cookies) (2-weeks and you cannot buy toilet paper...) Truckers use these for safety (accident ahead) to getting help for broken down 4-wheelers, to getting directions for deliveries, for genneral conversation and also to find the ellusive hidden SMOKEY BEAR... Oh but I am sure that those of you trucker haters have never rolled through a stop sign or even went over the legal speed limit. How many have radar dectors, granted they are "legal" but why have them if you are going to drive "legally".
As in anything, it is the few that make it bad for the many. There are a few Truckers that have 10m radios and use them illegally, there are also a few that are not truckers (4-wheelers)that use them illegally, and I am sure that a few "ham operators" have done things outside of the law. But those that do, think that they are above the law.
Give it a break my friends, if it wasn't for the Trucker, you wouldn't have your Ham rig, no less the gas to drive that vehicle around that a Trucker brought to your dealer. Oh, how about the electric in your house.. Oh yes, they bring that as well, from the conduit, to the telephone poles, to the wire. Thank a trucker.
I am an Owner Operator, I have 150+ grand wrapped up in my equipment. I usually have PVC conduit on my truck. I also am Amateur Radio Operator. I also know many truckers that are working on their getting their ham lic or have it all ready...
After reading all this stuff on here and seeing how you all feel about Truckers, I am now embarrased to be a ham. I am sorry that everything that is wrong on 10m is all their fault. Seems like many of you on here have a very broad brush and have no problem using it.
I usually enjoy talking to 4-wheeler Hams who get me on 2m as I roll down the road, but after reading this thread, I now have to be wary that the only reason they wish to talk is to investigate me and make sure I am using my callsign correctly, less they try to take my business away from me... Egads... I guess I shall just keep to myself and other Trucker Hams on the road, since I will now take out my broad brush and paint all of those 4-wheeler hams out there as those that hate "us truckers". Why converse with someone who is looking to hurt those in your industry.
Until this thread, I didn't know that having ham radio antennas on my rig would make me a target.
It seems like some of you need to find a hobby...
73
Ken
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 22, 2004
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>>> It is amazing that everything wrong with 10m and CB lays squarely on the Truckers. <<<
Ken,
No one is "finger pointing" truckers for the 10 meter band problems.
Many have indicated that these export radios are ALSO operated and used by many South American stations, Taxi Services, Courier Drivers and many other people also contribute to this problem.
If one was to accurately identify the main source or contributors of this problem, then one might at least have a shot at relieving the issue by implenting enforcement at that same source.
You have to admit, Truck stops DO in fact sell these Export radios. Therefore, it would be determined to be one of the places where enforcement may be required. ...Do you not agree, or deny this logic?
If one was to outright deny that fact, then they would only be hiding the truth of the matter.
Truck Drivers are not the issue here, Illegal Export radios used on the 10 meter band is the issue at hand regardless of the identified source.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 22, 2004
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10M rigs are not on the FCC list. <Q>
Oh, but I must differ on one point. IF the radio has been approved and has the FCC certification sticker, it is legal. MOST of those (hey, I would wager ALL) "10 meter" reddios (thar) that appear on FCC's dung list are strictly illegal. The ones I can think of now are Galaxy in several models, Connex, NorthStar, NorthPoint (NorthStar clone?), SuperStar, Cherokee, the President series (not sure on this one),and *some* Ranger models.
A quick clue while browsing the truck stop radio case is when the radio has "bands". Now, if a radio is a "10 Meter" radio, why would it need "band" switches to cover ONE band? US labeling laws require in ANY field that a "label" must truly and accurately reflect the product it represents. So, in the case of those crap "10 Meter" radios, it would have to BE a
10 Meter radio, right? So the "band" switches nullify the labeling!! No one is being fooled by this thinly disguised attempt to sneak this s*(& under the radar: these things are chicken band radios trying to attain some sort of legitimacy by calling themselves
"amateur" radios. The market is aimed towards the CBer, and the trucker; else, they would not be in the radio cases at the Pilot Truck Stop.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC8VWM on July 22, 2004
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>>>IF the radio has been approved and has the FCC certification sticker, it is legal. <<<
Illegal? Legal? ... In what way?
The "legality" issue really depends on what you do with the equipment - not the equipment in itself.
These non type accepted radios you see for sale around town are "intended" for export only.
Why? because the box says so... that's why.
They can sell them legally for "export" without any FCC type acceptance because they are "intended" for operation on bands such as 10 meters located outside FCC jurisdiction.
That in itself is not unlawful.
I feel many Amateurs that see this equipment in the display cases at some truck stops don't understand why they should even be allowed to sell them there.
Want the answer? - Because ... IT IS a truck stop.
Think about this for a moment...
Many truck drivers are self employed individuals and are considered as either "brokers" or "exporters" of consumer goods or sometimes both.
The truck stop is merely offering and marketing "consumer items for the purpose of resale" in an environment which obviously consists of a large customer base of professional "exporters."
...Get the picture?
There are other similar "Confused Laws" on the books:
For example, a state may have a strict ban on anyone in possesion of - and/or using a radar detector during the operation of a motor vehicle.
However, it would not be considered unlawful for anyone to posess an entire box of radar detectors while operating a motor vehicle.
Why..? Because you are a truck driver transporting them to a store for resale.
73
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KE4MOB on July 22, 2004
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How you do legally export something that can't be legally imported in the first place? After all, these things do come from the Far East....
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by OO1TRK on July 22, 2004
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What I stated is what I read by such genius people out there such as K4KWH, N9AVY and N6AJR.. Some of their pabulum is below.. KC8VWM, I do not mean any of the stuff below in answer to you, just to those that posted what they did below..
N6AJR said
"So every truck goes into a truck scale 10 times a day. some at random are selected to be inspected. This is going on now. Train the officers to see if there is an illegal radio or amp in the truck. The antenna would be a dead give away!
Teach the difference between showing a Ham license and not having any radio license. If they have an illegal radio or amp, confiscate the truck, load, radio, etc. and tell the guy to call the boss and tell him his truck is impounded for illegal radio. If running illegal and has a general license, or a teck plus and a key.. he skates even if running an illegal cb, he has a license.. ok.. "
Just these statements above shows the ignorance of this genius, first Trucks do not go into scales 10-times a day,(most times it is about 1 to 3 times a day) second Kentucky tried taking rigs out of Trucks, and got into a big legal mess, you just cannot do that, it is NOT illegal to own or listen to the rigs, they must be caught while being in use… Doing this costs KY cops a bundle.. 3rd Cannot impound a “load” for having an 10-meter radio in a tractor trailer. Nor for using this radio, again you open yourself and the state to a large amount of lawsuits. Cargo is time sensitive and can spoil if impounded. The state takes liability of the cargo when they take possession of it. To impound it, they MUST take legal possession of it Know the law, or at least do some research before posting a bunch of junk.
Then the brilliance of N9AVY struck me as funny as he said..
"The solution to stopping this illegal activity would be in having the manpower to stop and search every truck (and other vehicle)for illegal transmitting equipment. In conjunction with that, every CB shop and truck stop should also be searched. In either case, illegal equipment should be seized as well as vehicles (same as for drug dealers). Imagine a trucker having to explain to his boss that the company's truck was seized becuase HE was using an illegal transmitter ? So, a few truckers would lose their jobs (better than fines!) "
Most of this I answered above, but drivers losing their job because they “legally own a 10m rig” is putting this drivers kids and family out of food and support. People forget that Truckers have families, wives, kids and the like, just like everyone else.. If ---ANYONE--- is caught using a radio illegally, it should be seized, and the person fined a few hundred dollars. Why put someone out of work.. Why cause hardship to that persons loved ones. And again, imagine the liability that the police would take on to have this “trucker” and his rig/load seized, I would not want to be the state, the trooper or local cop to take on this responsibility and liability.
And then the most anti-trucker K4KWH, his pabulum is below
"put it the car and go out there and "hunt". Those who have multiple antennas and "unusual" antennas are particularly attractive to the militant CB trucker (you know, the guys that have them BIG COIL antanners, thar). They can't resist commenting on your mobile or attempting to call you on their 'reddido thar'. "
"IF just ONE ham accurately reports ONE trucker, that's one less. If he nails TWO, that's two. Two hams nail 3 drivers, that's SIX. 20 determined hams in the entire nation, just 20, nailing and reporting
3 each = SIXTY drivers a-tawkin' on them extree channels thar, and then being silenced as their companys' safety directors send out a memo to all their drivers that such radios must be removed or face dismissal! This number increase as drivers tell each other over coffee at the truck stop that, "That ole &*%$# FCC made us take our 10 Meter reddios out!"
Drivers tell each other in turn, and so on and so on. "
"Finally, let me ask this. What are you going to do when (it's only a matter of time) when the truckers begin beeping and squeaking on 17 Meters? Or 20 Meters? Even 40 Meters? Will you continue to "
There are almost 4-million truckers out there, over 1-million are “independents”. That puts it at about 4-million CB’s in use just in trucks, since most trucks have CB’s in them. According to all the information I have found on the web, there are about 5 to 6 thousand 10m rigs out there in trucks, capable of both CB (11-meter)and 10 meter access.. If these were all in truckers rigs, how much less than 1 percent of truckers have them in their rigs?????????????? HmmmmMMM?
A lot of these truckers with the big antennas” do not have big CB rigs or 10m rigs for that matter, they have the antenna… It is like a Harley and the tee-shirt, most people that wear the tee-shirt, don’t own the Harley..
What all of you don’t take note on, is that Newer model trucks CANNOT have CB rigs or anything else in them that use a lot of wattage or omit a lot of RF signal. In trucks from about the late 90’s on, the high power of these rigs wattage can wipeout the computer systems memory and or diagnostics memory. So when the mechanic goes and tries to see what is up with that big engine, his computer screen shows garbage or no data. I know many companies forbid drivers from using anything more than stock CB’s for this reason, and many more are now starting to equip their new rigs with company owned CB’s.. A check on ebay from time to time, and you will find “truckers CB’s” for sale. Many because of this.
Big Trucks come with a computer that records speed, RPM,s, shifting habits, idle time, ect… Companies need this information to help them save fuel and abuse of the equipment.
CB shops are at truckstops because they ain’t gonna sell CB’s at the mall… What may surprise some of you that post some of this non-sense is that some of the CB shops are run by HAM’s.. Yes indeed, I said it… Hams.. SO I think we ought to clean up our backyard before calling the cops on the neighbors. And I do think you need to get CB shops out of the “Ham radio” business. But remember one thing.. There are a good number of Truckers that get interested in Ham Radio from these CB shops and their 10m radios. I know of more than a few who got their Ham ticket because of this.
Just my thoughts and comments, those that need me to go into any of this further for any extra info can email me at kam@lemoi.com .. If you want to shoot me, that is fine as well..
73
Ken
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by N6XA on July 23, 2004
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Unfortunately, I must admit to being a 18 wheel truck driver for the last year. I have had a lot of training and experience with heavy equipment and a particular manufacturer uses my services for testing their product. This is not my dream job because it involves a lower element of our society (that is not a judgement of all truckers, just some). Fortunately, my daily activities causes me to speak with a very intelligent mechanic and several very intelligent on site engineers. They all speak fluid english and are informed on a variety of topics which make conversation interesting. Without them, and a few fellow drivers who read and use their minds a lot, I would not be able to cope with the job.
It has been many years since I keyed up a CB. But in the last year I have done so (forgive me Ham Gods). Well, the good news is that it isn't quite as profane and wild west as it was when I got out of it in the early seventies. I actually used it then legally for a small company I had (call sign and everything).
By my observations, truckers have absolutely no idea about the laws governing radio. I would suggest that most don't give a s__t and would tell you so to your face.
To give an example of the kind of mentality some, but fortunately not all truckers have consider this recent experience. Last week, while fueling at a truck stop, a young blck truck driver noticed a CD of President Clinton's recent book. He looked at me and said: "He was a good President." I smiled at him and said "Yes he was." Another trucker behind us started yelling in an all to farmiliar southern trucker accent about ni__ers (sorry.) Then he started going off about how Clinton had shamed the country and how the young kid was a m_____r f___er for praising him. It got to a point where the cashier and I just stepped back and watched the two go at it. I was hopping the black kid would deck the other guy but he was way too cool for that (good for him). My closing comment to the unfortunate black trucker was: "don't worry he probably won't bother to vote, probably can't write his name." Point is, the mentality of truckers is apparently quite a bit below the average citizen of the country.
To the point. This type of interference has happened in the past. Usually Hams legitimately using the same frequencies run the illegal stations off. As the last solar cycle started to peak, illegal 10 meter users (including truckers) complained about us HAM BEEPERS causing them interference. "Beepers" is the term used for CW transmissions. And our morse code did discourage them from using the frequencies. Possibly since they could not understand or argue with the person trying to send a legitimate morse code transmission.
Let us all look forward to a great solar cycle on ten and a lot of activity in the lower regions of the band. Be legal, and BEEP away often.
Ed
PS: is there a PRO SIGN for idiot?
PPSS: I don't mean to slight my fellow "truckers" per se. Truckers have the opportunity to meet people representing a wide variety of our countries sub cultures. Some of those cultures may represent a embarrasing segment of our society that is seldom spoken about in proper circles, whatever their profession is. There are many truckers that I would be proud to have coffee with!!!
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by OO1TRK on July 23, 2004
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N6XA
Sorry you have had such a neg experience as a Trucker.. I have been out here for more than 20-years.. I am your opposite politically, but I don’t and never would argue with anyone in the style that the trucker you met while fueling did. ( it serves no purpose) But I would debate you, and I would enjoy doing that.. I myself do not argue with truckers, shippers or recievers), Truckers are ferociously independent, shippers and receivers think they are god.
Many truckers are very opinionated as you know.. There is an old saying, “arguing with a trucker, is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, pretty soon you realize that they enjoy it”.
Back to the subject though of the thread.. I have my callsign on the rear of my trailer and sides of my tractor.. You would be surprised how many truckers are getting their ham ticket. Many get interested in it when they shop in these CB shops and find out that they need a Ham Lic to legally get on 10m bands. And the actions in KY I mentioned, actually did some help, by bringing to the forefront the need for a Ham ticket to use these 10m. Gennerally, those that take the time out te get their ham ticket, become very good ham operators, and are a joy to talk to.
Like in any job or profession, there are bad apples, trucking is not exempt from this. Unfortunately such is life.
I enjoy going dwon the road and finding other “Hams” out there in big-trucks, as I enjoy a good conversation and debate. (as I am sure you and I would have politically).
So my friend, I am sorry you are not proud to be a trucker, they are todays version of cowboys, and jump through hoops to bring everything to the US consumer. I am a proud trucker, and a proud owner/operator. I make a very good living, get to enjoy my hobbies to their fullest (boating and amateur radio), get to be home from Friday to Monday and enjoy my family life. To me, life gets no better. But that is just me… Hope you have happy trails and maybe someday we can have a cup of coffee together and maybe a good ole debate on politics. (I’ll buy the coffee..)
Be safe and happy trails.
73
Ken
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 23, 2004
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"They all speak fluid english and are informed on a variety of topics which make conversation interesting."
I know a lot of truckers. They vary in education from a few guys with PhDs who, for one reason or another, got out of academia, to high school drop outs. They're all well read. Reading, or at least listening to books on tape, seems to be a very common hobby among truckers. A couple of them speak three or more languages. Most, but not all, of the ones I know are owner-operators. Quite a few of them are hams and have some of the nicest mobile setups I've ever encountered. One team is a couple that have been married and trucking together for 20 years.
I have no idea where the dumb redneck stereotype of truckers comes from, but I do know that such drivers are very uncommon; especially in over the road trucking; at least out here in the west.
Not every trucker I've ever talked to speaks "fluid" English. Some of them are boring, some hold strong but poorly thought out opinions, some are coarse and profane. But I can say the same thing about hams, or for that matter, just about any cross section of America you'd care to name.
My suggestion: Instead of trying to slot truck drivers into an out-of-date stereotype, why not get on the air and talk with a few. Who knows, you might come across one who taught your high school English class many years ago.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by T32AI on July 23, 2004
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I thought the 10-10 organization was formed in order to occupy the 10 meter band with nets and to encourage it's use. I believe it was formed in the late 50's/early 60's out in Southern California.
Having been a member since '70 I've noticed the band being squatted on by all sorts of QRM and SE Asia is the worst (as experienced during my recent KH0 stint).
73 - RR
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by RADIO123US on July 23, 2004
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OO1TRK said "it is NOT illegal to own or listen to the rigs, they must be caught while being in use…"
You are right, but if it's the ONLY 2-way radio in the truck then it's obvious what it is being used for.
Please don't forget, these 10 meter radios are NOT LEGAL to operate on the CB band either (they lack type acceptance). I used to be involved with the State Police and DOT inspections, so if one of these
radios were found to be in use in a commercial motor vehicle, I would have no problem requiring proof of a license. If there is no license then, have the radio removed, and allow it to be picked up when proof of an Amateur Radio license is presented. I would guess it would only take a few of these radios being removed before they start buying regular legal CB radios again.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AB4YE on July 23, 2004
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It's very hard to stop at a truck stop on any interstate or major U.S. highway and not find Ranger high power 10 meter rigs for sale in the same display case as CB radios (and other brands).
It would be insane to think that truckers would not take advantage of this opportunity to purchase fairly high quality/high power radio gear. People who use
CB have no regard for FCC rules. Why? Because they know that getting a letter from the FCC is not in their future. The U.S. government gave up on trying to police the Citizens Band decades ago.
The 10 meter ham gear being sold is easily modified for use on the CB band. All truckers, and most CB'ers know this.
Unless someone decides to get in a car and track illegal transmissions or "foxhunt" them down and report them, the problem is only going to get worse.
We should operate high power digital modes whereever we find non-identifying stations. At least force the illegal operators to purchase some good DSP noise reduction equipment..I mean, we CAN simply act as if they are not on frequency..
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Truck Drivers Taking Over...... So?
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by AH6GI on July 23, 2004
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Unlike some of you, I can't really complain about the truck drivers on 10 meters.
I have never operated on 10 meters. I suppose I might have put a carrier on 10, once about 20 years ago. I probably ID'ed when I checked the SWR of my tribander.
But, In 40 years of holding a license to use 10, I have transmitted, maybe, 10 minutes.
I've listened some. Spun the knob of a radio across 10, maybe once or twice a YEAR and have never heard any hams.
The legal community has the concepts of abandonment and adverse possession.
Based on my pattern of operation, I have abandoned 10 meters and the trucker-cb'ers have adverse possession.
How many of you fella's who are itchin' to track down the trucker-cb'ers and report em to the Candy Company, transmit, oh, 2 or 3 minutes a day on 10?
If they take something that I'm not using, have I suffered a loss?
I'm not saying that I'm personally giving away 10. I'm not. I suggest that instead of hootin' and hollarin' and gettin' in a frenzy, that maybe some of you should dust off the old transmitter and make use of 10.
Mark your territory, so to speak.
de ah6gi/4.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by K4TIN on July 23, 2004
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One of two things that make my blood boil. We live a couple miles south of I-20. I have noticed an increasing number of these people with illegal CBs (readily available on eBay and elsewhere) riding by spewing out the usual CB stuff: a semi-intelligible tangle of squeaks, squawks, static and smut. But this time it's on the CW portion of our band. Can't answer them in their own mode, of course, and a friendly request to QSY in code would not be understood by these cretins.
Didn't mean for this to be a negative post, but it is the truth.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by AE6IP on July 23, 2004
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"We should operate high power digital modes whereever we find non-identifying stations."
Before doing so, please recall that not all countries have the same extensive requirements for IDing that the FCC has.
Also remember that not all countries have the same band plans as the US, meaning that non-IDing Spanish on the lower end of 10 may well be legal South American hams.
We wouldn't want to interfer with legitimate users, now would we?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA6FFV on July 24, 2004
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Some of you folks need a reality check.If it was'nt for the free banders there wouldent be any one on ten meters at all.The ARRL band plan for 10 still shows the 29-30 segmet as used for satillites but the
Russian birds are gone now.Would't it be nice if that segnent was made digital only?
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Join the ARRL ????
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by W8AMR on July 24, 2004
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Oh that one sounds like a winner to me!
The ARRL proposes such relaxing of the requirements to become a radio amateur that it won't be long before those same guys who are on the lower end of 10 meters buy a YaesuComWood and regularily operate 75 meters! The ARRL is so anxious to see new hams (and new members) that they want the FCC to give the tickets away. I guess that must be their strategy to clean up 10 meters .. geez
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KE5ASZ on July 24, 2004
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There sure are a lot of "10 meter" amps for sale on eBay. I also notice that these amps only require 4 watts of drive to put out 1,000 watts. Real ham linear amps usually require a drive of 50-100 watts to put out 1,500 watts. Something seems fishy.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over...... So?
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by N8MMZ on July 24, 2004
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Good to hear that someone is using the lower acreage on 10M!
Seriously - it's up to us to do some of the detective work - while we can't really shut down all of the mobile stations, we can certainly DF the base operations. I suppose that one could DF some of the mobile rigs and copy down license plate info. A camcorder mounted in the back seat of the car grabbing a shot of the truck, your DF equipment (with frequency clearly indicated), and with the audio grabbing the transmissions would be a nice touch. Then, send your complaint in to the FCC along with your actionable evidence.
I have no problem with the FCC stepping up their evidence gathering efforts in house; however, this will prob. require more staff. So instead of raising taxes to pay for the staff, how about auctioning a band or two?
Clearly, we ought to handle the problem as much as possible in our own community and then pass the data/evidence to the FCC. If we ask the FCC to step in on data collection, they just might notice how underutilized our allocations really are.
73s de N8MMZ
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over...... So?
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by KA3RFE on July 24, 2004
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Here's another thing to consider:
If you slide down to the low parts of 10 meters and simply transmit without the intent of having a QSO, and only want to interfere with the pirates, it would be an illegal one-way communication. Check the regs on permissable one-way comms and the prohibited comms. The pirates may not have any protection from amateur transmissions on 10 meters, but we shouldn't ourselves break our regs while hammering them. Two wrongs don't make a right.
73, Pete KA3RFE
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over...... So?
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by K4KWH on July 24, 2004
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you slide down to the low parts of 10 meters and simply transmit without the intent of having a QSO, and only want to interfere with the pirates, it would be an illegal one-way communication. Check the regs on permissable one-way comms and the prohibited comms. The pirates may not have any protection from amateur transmissions on 10 meters, but we shouldn't ourselves break our regs while hammering them. Two wrongs don't make a right.
73, Pete KA3RFE
UH, I can come up onto an otherwise unoccupied frequency (by other LEGAL stations) and call CQ! If the stations choose not to answer my CQ, then I can't help that. They aren't forced to reply, right? And I don't know that anyone WILL answer me. If there happens to be some stupid, unlicensed goon a-tan-ferrin' on the band, then TOUGH! Therefore the "one way" rule does not apply since the legal operator doesn't know that a response is forthcoming, nor does the pirate have any recourse. For an answer to this question, email rholling@fcc.gov. Of course, if a licensed station is deliberately interfering with other stations by makin one-way transmissions, playing music, yes, it would be actionable. Against a lawbreaking criminal yakking on the ham bands. No!
To be forced to yield to a pirate station is ridiculous. This issue has already been addressed; pirate stations do N O T have protection from the operations of legally licensed stations operating within their privileges. So, if you "happen" to hear a
pirate and decide to call CQ right on top of the idiot, go right ahead. Sure, you *may* or may not have any intent to infere with the pirate (wink wink) but you can't help it if no one answers your CQ, right?
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by W4RAN on July 24, 2004
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Well you guys are talking about 10 mtr i know for fact that alot local counties in NC and fire depts are using 2mtr rigs for there county radios, and highway patrolman have these radios too in there cars for talking to county Sherriff's office, ALL because they cheaper than buying commercial radios. When asked what there callsign is they say there offical with law enforcemnet angency and not hams at all I have not worked on any of these radiosI wont put my commercial ticket in harms way. I have complained to higher beings and nothing is being done. So who is really breaking the law now. Its Local government s and Law enforcement personnell all over. Just my two cents worth 73's
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by AI4BV on July 25, 2004
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As a former truck driver of three years, I can attest to the garbage found on the 11m band (now, more and more frequently on 10m). The vermin that perpitrate this crap need to be banned from EVER transmitting on ANY frequency. Unfortunately, as many hams driving a truck know, the c.b. is nessecary in many aspects of the job. Many shippers and receivers that we encounter communicate with drivers via c.b. and I have even encountered one or two places that would not even acknowledge your presence unless you contacted them on their "shipping/receiving channel". Also, when responsible for safely controlling the passage of a 75' long, 8' wide, 40 ton vehicle down a crowded highway, it is good practice to obtain as much knowledge as possible of the ever changing road conditions ahead. With that said, if at any given moment the c.b. in my truck was left with the AF gain turned clockwise enough to allow the sounds of channel 19 to encounter my eardrums for more than 2 or 3 minutes, I would find myself questioning whether or not evolution might be lagging in certain parts of the populace. The problem is not the radios. The problem is not truck drivers. The problem is people that wish to transmit just to be heard. Not to COMMUNICATE, but to be HEARD. They like to try and control the air waves. They run the high power in order to "walk on" each other and claim the rights to having the "biggest radio". They like to get on poeple's nerves. They've found willing victims and plenty of room to do this kind of thing on the ham bands. These are poeple that want you to try to QRM them off the air. They love it; it makes their day. What these people don't like, is for Uncle Riley's boys to show up at their front door and put their "BIG" radio in a sledge-o-matic out on the front lawn, take a chainsaw to their tower, and then give them a pink slip big enough to prevent them from EVER having the chance to afford on of those "big radios" again. Unconvetional tactics for an unconventional enemy. This requires two things, people who will take the time to report these offenders and an F.C.C. that will actually persue them. There's no doubt about it, these guys are really hungry for bandwidth and their finding everything they want on 10m. We have to defend our bands, no one else gives a damn about them-and don't ever be mislead into thinking otherwise. However don't blame truckers in general, most of them are good people who have had it with these types as well and want them off their band just as badly. The lifestyle they lead makes them ideal candidates for our hobby, so treat them well. Get more of them interested in the hobby and put out the word that way. Besides, if we didn't have a group of people in this country willing to live a rough life out there and risk their tail shipping goods around the land, we wouldn't be debating this topic anyways, because your prized HF rig would have never made it from the factory to your shack in the first place.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4JF on July 25, 2004
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"alot local counties in NC and fire depts are using 2mtr rigs for there county radios, and highway patrolman have these radios too in there cars for talking to county Sherriff's office"
I hope you have reported this to FCC. Demos notwithstanding, nobody is above the law, and these yahoos need to be reported to the proper authority and fined.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4JF on July 25, 2004
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"For example, a state may have a strict ban on anyone in possesion of - and/or using a radar detector during the operation of a motor vehicle. "
Actually, no they can't. Regulation of radio equipment is the provence of the Federal government, not the states. (Communications Act of 1934) Those bans are illegal and have been thrown out in court. The states mainly use them against out-of-state drivers in the hopes that they won't come back and fight through the court system. And it seems to be working. The ban against radar detectors (aka microwave receivers) by truckers is, in contrast, legal because it is a Federal rule.
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RE: "Illegal Radio's - - - Illegal People&quo
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by KS4MT on July 25, 2004
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Amnesty??? Maybe we should grant amnesty to all who have broken the law, then we could end prison overcrowding. What we should do is force the civil servants that WE PAY to do their jobs.
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RE: "Illegal Radio's - - - Illegal People&
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by K4KWH on July 25, 2004
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BTW, there is a "fresh" report on RainReport that FCC has popped one (or more) drivers for Estes Trucking for operatin' on them 'extree' channels thar!~ Betcha it was a ham that is doing what he can to keep what he worked for. It's what we ALL need to be doing.
73
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WILLY on July 26, 2004
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by K4JF on July 25, 2004
"For example, a state may have a strict ban on anyone in possesion of - and/or using a radar detector during the operation of a motor vehicle. "
Actually, no they can't. Regulation of radio equipment is the provence of the Federal government, not the states.
(Communications Act of 1934) Those bans are illegal and have been thrown out in court. The states mainly use them against out-of-state drivers in the hopes that they won't come back and fight through the court system. And it seems to be working. The ban against radar detectors (aka microwave receivers) by truckers is, in contrast, legal because it is a Federal rule. "
There is a Federal rule against radar detectors?
If there is, it should be thrown out. What possible commons sense reason can there be for taking away a person's device for monitoring a radio signal? There is no way that the person listening can be construed to be dangerous or infringing on anyone else.
I see it as very, very sad that citizens stand by as laws like this are even considered, let alone passed.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA4MJF on July 26, 2004
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Willy,
The USDOT does have rules against radar
detectors and many others like how long you
can be on duty at a time, etc, etc.
When you get that USDOT/ICC number for your
truck so you can do inter-state commerce,
you have to follow their rules. If you
want a radar detector, do intra-state
commerce.
73 de Ronnie
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KC4COP on July 26, 2004
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I have a very busy web site concerned with HF propagation forecasting.
Over the past 4-months (approximately), I have received a number of complaints from truck drivers and ham radio operators concering this thread. They think I have contacts that they do not have.
One truck driver states that he has been physically threatened. He names a specific individual. Having read the reader's e-mail several times, I have no reason to think that those of us in law enforcement would consider the reader's message a "crank" communication.
The above reader claims to have contacted the F.C.C. several times. He claims that the F.C.C. did not contact him for additional information or even acknowledge his contacts. He and the other that have contacted me must think I have contacts within the F.C.C. Not only do I not any pull within the agency - but I can't even spell F.C.C.
I am able to get immediate response from SEC, NOAA, NASA, IPS, and SIDC. The F.C.C. must operate in a different fashion than its sister agencies. I wounder if they would let me establish my own ionosonde?
CBers have been using V.F.O.s for over 25 years, frequencies mean little, power is anything they want. Where is the F.C.C.? Money is not important. All the F.C.C. needs is a bill letting them keep a portion of the fines that they levy - and then go after the violators. As bill collectors, they need the backup of jail and prison for those that don't pay.
Dick Zseltvay
KC4COP
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RE: "Illegal Radio's - - - Illegal People&
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by KC9EUH on July 26, 2004
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I am a truck driver. Oh so bad to be a truck driver. I am also a ham operator. I have a CB in my truck. Used to talk to loaders and security people at the mines I run. My CB is completly legal. Yes there are illegal ones being used by other drivers. Truck stops have CB shops that will add frequencies and power. Go after them it is illegal for anyone without a commercial license to even open a CB. If not available the truckers can't buy them. I have seen hams running some of those shops. Sitting talking on 2 meters on a repeater while doing this illegal work.
I know alot of truckers that are hams have talk to many of them. I talk to the ones I know that have high power CB's trying to recruit them to the right side of the road. But the way some of you talk about truck drivers (which are people just like you) really gets my goat. What make you any better than anyone else????? Your grouping people with a similar job into one catagory. Just as in the world, where you work, where you live., there are good people and bad people we are no different there are more goood truck drivers than bad. Most companies are trying hard to control the hours drivers drive. Look at a truck stop after 5 PM till around 10 am if so many drivers are running illegal then how could all those truck stops be so full. Can't even find a parking space alot of times between those hours.
As for 10 meters. What are we doing with it? I listen there weekly have only heard one QSO in the past 3 months ( use it or someone else will). I have heard alot of 2 meter repeaters that sound as bad as Channel 19 when I was over the road. I have gotten rid of my 2 meter rig. I would my CB but need it to work.
Put some CW down there and there's no way they will have any luck using it. Instead of 2 meters use 10 meters for local nets. We did in Germany when I was in the Army there.
Yes do what you can to turn in the illegal CB shops. Yes if you can prove someone is operating Illegally in the 10 meter band turn it in. Get up off your duffs and contact trucking companies and tell them what is going on. Believe me if they hear enough they will do something about it.
Sit here talking on eham so almighty as most of you are really does nothing. Do you think these shops and drivers read this???
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by VE3OV on July 27, 2004
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Truck drivers need to talk to other truck drivers. The frequency numbers on the radio dial are of no significance to them, so long as the frequency is unused. If that is indeed true, then the answer to the situation being discussed is simple. Give truck drivers decent frequency spectrum and decent equipment to meet their requirements and desires and they will go there. Why are the FCC and the Canadian regulators so blind to take the needed action ?
In my area around Buffalo N.Y. and Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto in Canada; nearly all the emergency services and commercial radio users have moved out of the 148 - 179 MHz band up to higher bands. There is a lot of vacant spectrum waiting for reassignment to users like truck drivers. The general motoring public could also use radio frequencies to communicate among themselves.
Imagine being on an expressway with cars on all sides and cars as far as you can see ahead and behind you and yet not have the ability to call out to any of them.
The FCC is truly blind to what the truckers want to do and to the urgent needs of the motoring public. The FCC members are not serving the citizens of the nation, when they ignore the needs of the citizens they serve. Bring in a workable Citizens Band that meets the original goals of Citizens Band when CB was first introduced. The 10 Meter problem will then go away.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by K8XF on July 27, 2004
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If you hear some illegal activity in the 10 Meter CW portion of the band here is a simple remedy. Start calling cq next to their frequency. They will move and so can you, follow them and call cq again. Since the band is open its time to look for some legitimate qsoes. Please dont comment upon this concept that this is an illegal response. I have seen this subject brought up before and some guy will quote part 97, telling us this it not legal. You have the right to call cq on 10 Mtr CW. I even asked this question of Mr. Hollingsworth over 2 years ago at a Bradenton Florida Hamfest. He said, "You are licensed to operate on that part of the band, so call cq if you wish"
I always check the MUF when I get on daily. And being a CW Opr I will call cq when illegal activity appears on 10M CW. You would be surprised at how many cw responses I have gotten. And the illegal station moved away. I had a good laugh once when a female (non-southern accent) commented that somebody is sending beeps and that this is mean because she cant talk to her friend....excuuse ME......... I once followed a Spanish station chasing him up and down the band. This lothario was singing a love song to his girlfriend. He got upset that things were not working well for Senior Sinatra. Hasta la Vista Baby.........Go buy a cell Fone
73
Mike, K8XF
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by W5DXE on July 28, 2004
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There is a simple solution to this. Have the driver's CDL revoked for operating illegally on ham bands. Again that would mean two federal agencies working together (FCC & DOT). But after reading the 9-11 commisions report that doesn't look like that will happen either. Funny how something simple can be made complicated when you ask for the goverments help...
73/DXE
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by AA3JG on July 28, 2004
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i agree with you on the truckers, they just dont't care,something should be done! by the fcc. but it is pretty hard to get them, when they are going 78 miles an hour etc. on the roads
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N9WWR on July 28, 2004
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Bob I take it from your post that you have never had employment as a truck driver. Don't go as far to blame ALL truck drivers for poor judgements by done by some. As far as your statement to remove cb radios from the semi does that mean that you would want HAM radios removed also? Why stop there take out the AM/FM/Sat radios also.
All right with that said lets turn the tables. With over a million miles and counting I've seen some pretty poor driving skills by "4 Wheelers". Does this mean that all people driving cars have poor driving skills? No..Do I preach that there should no cb/ham/am-fm radios in cars? No... Only you know your driving skills and if you can't operate your car and your radio gear safely then there is a problem.
Ok with that said I'll be waiting your for reply. If I took something out of context wrong, I'm sorry.
73s all and to the Commercial/Ham drivers, "Keep America Moving"
John
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N9WWR on July 28, 2004
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"And, when we do, we’ll hear those cap-wearing, cigar-chewing, snuff-spitting, caffeine pumping, law-ignoring, log book-faking, 18-wheel idiots cruising up and down the Superslab."
Well lets see Peter I think you need some help when you descride "18-wheel idiots". Yes I wear a ball cap, no I don't chew on cigars, as far as I know snuff is the old term used for the powder that is sniffed. Chewing tabacco juices are discharged by spitting. As for "caffine pumping", I drink my Mountian Dew as for a million other people. "Law-ignoring", I take it you don't speed or break any laws while driving your "4 Wheeler". "Log book faking", yes there are drivers that "doctor up" their logs.
So before you open up your childish mouth again please be aware that there are Hams in some of those 18 wheelers that don't support your "Convoy" image.
Oh one other thing, take a good look around you, 99.9% of the items in your home including the materials to build your home were brought by a truck. Unless your have a support rail line to your house.
73s All
John
MTC Transfer
"With out trucks America Stops"
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by K4KWH on July 28, 2004
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Well, I don't know if this is true, but...............
I can dream, can't I???? ;)
It came from one of the CB websites.
73
K4KWH
*******
Mudduck
member is offline
FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=PM"
Posts: 1
Re: 10 meter, 11 meter use
« Reply #1 on: Jul 19th, 2004, 04:26am »
Drivers; Better pat attention to what this says and I will tell you why. I may I was pulled over on I-20 by an un-marked Fed about 20 miles from the Georgia line by the FCC for a radio monitoring violation they had overheard m,e and another person on 28.085 and I had also been using 27.705 and they had me nailed recordings and all.
They confiscated the radio and the pump a nearly new Texas Star. And I asked what they would do with it and they said "After we use it as evidence it will be destroyed. I have been fired from my trucking company and have a lawyer already "Who said my best bet is to 'Plea bargain'. I have been banned from anykind of 2- way radio except a cell phone until I go to court in late August, I probably won't gp to the pen but I will probably have to pay a stiff fine. I had told rough rider in Mississippi, earlier that day that I wasn't worried about NO FCC, I had used that ol Ranger for years ain't never had no Chaley bother'n me. So much for that radio. I will go on my driving record that I got busted.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by W4RAN on July 29, 2004
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It is against the law in NC to have a RADAR detector in big trucks Truckers beware your radar detectors wont pick up what NC Highway Patrol is running in there cars , Tahoe;s camaros Jeeps,blazers , Durangos
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by PHINEAS on July 29, 2004
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Killer TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!
Legal or not, it is one thing to complain about people using a part of the band and being interfered with, it is another to complain about the use of something when obviously there are not a lot of people who give a crap. I will bet that is truckers were on 20 meters, the results would be totally different. The reason alot of these truckers think it's ok is cause they do not hear anything on that frequency to begin with.
Stop whinning, and use the band!!!!
Phineas
K0KMA
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by K0PD on July 29, 2004
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Look complain all you want as sometime's i think that is Amateur Op's favorite pass time.Any way as some have already stated use it or lose it.Also one does not need to buy a illegal radio to get on 10mtr's but only in lot's of cases have a friendly ham that for a few buck's will modify your legal CB into a illegal CB.And the last thing we need is for local Cop's to enforce federal radio law's.It would be so far down there priority list when it came to enforcement,think about it.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by K3FT on July 30, 2004
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If you want to act..
All you have to do is get on 10M... and OPERATE!
Send Code practice..
Send RTTY/PSK/PACKET
Send CW/SSB
Call CQ.
Test your gear.
As long as YOU ID, operate on the bands/modes your license allows you to operate on, and don't interfere with LICENSED ***PLEASE NOTE*** -- L I C E N S E D -- users of the band, you are OK.
Those illegals have ZERO (that's NONE) rights and it is IMPOSSIBLE to be guilty of QRM'ing someone that is illegal to begin with.
So.. if you hear 'em.. operate on the frequency. Have fun!
just remember to OFFSET your transmitter frequency so your tone or audio is in the center of their passband.
It IS effective and it does work.
The more we make it HARD for them to use OUR band..t he more likely they are to go below 28 MHz and if they do, I don't care what they do down there.
Go operate 10.. if illegals are there..just operate on them..
Good hunting!
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WR8D on July 30, 2004
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Coal truck drivers here laugh about it. They think its a big joke. If one of them knows you're a ham they'll say "we got us one of them there rigs like you have". I'll ask what kind is that and get a reply that its a galaxy. A few have even told me they would "holler" at me if they heard me on. We can't do a thing about this and i just laugh and tell them they have "high priced chickenband junk", and that the fcc is monitoring those freq's. Another thing many may not be aware of is many of these illegal operators you hear are licensed hams. Not all are the new guys with the KG calls either. Many just have that damned deformed gene that makes them want to go against the rules in everything that pertains to their daily lives. Many of these guys were freebanders 25 years ago and extra class hams back then too. I remember 15 years ago some bath house chatter around the mine site. There was an extra class operator bragging about talking below cb channel 1 to some guy in africia everyday on the way home from work. It does'nt matter to these weirdo's where they key the mic. The bottom of our 10 meter band or just anywhere they hear a signal. Proof of my point here is years ago when that little plane flew none stop around the world. There were hundreds of idiots trying to talk to this crew as they flew their mission. I think there was a write up in qst about it too. Sometimes they could'nt communicate back for wx info because of so many trying to make a contact with them. They were running on a standard worldwide air traffic freq at the time, but that still didn't stop these same types of operators from trying to make a contact. Face it guys this world is a mess.
My 2 cents:
73, John WR8D
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC9FUT on July 30, 2004
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to korfd just read your post sounds to me like you have Rf radiation to the brain,are you on disability if not you should be,you could use some help.Plain and simple...
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by OO1TRK on July 30, 2004
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This week I was running down to GA, stopped in VA to get my $300 worth of fuel, across the highway from where I fuel up is a Flyin J truckstop. There was one of them thar "Extree Class" ham boys in the truckstop selling some of his old equipment to (ahem) Truckers. He was contacting them on 19, and bringing them up to ch25, braggin that his "amps" were "true 250watts". We was also selling an all-mode older Yeasu that can "transmit on any freq you want, including smokies freq".. Now this is how HE was explaining it.. He was also selling 2 2m rigs and a dual bander 2m/70cm.. Said his wife was going to divorce him, and she "ain't gettin my shack".. During the 1/2 hour I was fueling and doing paperwork, I had to hang and listen. Before I left, he sold his HF and 1 - 2m rigs. Plus the "Amps" went quickly. He offered to "even set it up for you in your truck if you would like". I tried to bring him onto simplex to chat with him, but he told me to kiss his (ahem) *ss, and mind my own business.
I was very impressed with his willingness to use his callsign on 2m when we were up there and at the same time be selling he stuff that he was... Oh yeah, I am a lowly "no-code tech".. But I wouldn't even think of doing what this person was doing..
He did take the time out to explain to me as he was cursing me out on 2m, that what he was doing was NOT illegal. That you can see to anybody. But I as a trucker knows, as well as anyone else. Anyone (trucker or otherwise) who buys this stuff in going to use it..
Ken
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by K8CPA on July 31, 2004
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I hate to admit it, But I agree, nothing more irks me, is when I'm trying to run 10 CW and some jerk CB'er is in the CW part of 10 meters and talking away, with thier roger beeps and nonsense. Now, before anyone yells, I have been, and still am, active on CB. I still have freinds there, No, I don't use my Kenwood TS-950SDX there, at all. But I do use and have used a Cobra 148, hooked to a power supply to talk to them. I have no axe to grind with CB'ers AT ALL, In fact, most CB'er are much more freindlier than some HAMS I know, and I don't mind that most of them run power or run Modded or "export" type radios. All I ask, is that they keep them in thier OWN band segment. and keep them out of the Amateur Bands. It's the one's that do this, that I have a axe to grind with.
73's es GUD DX!
-Chuck K8CPA
...-.- ..
without CW, it's just CB. 10-4?
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KN4OO on July 31, 2004
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Oh Ron;
As much as it pains me to inform you that the DOT has made it illegal for any one holding a CDL to carry a "FUZZ BUSTER" in any Interstate Commerce vehicle, so NCs law means squat!!!! Yeah carry a CDL and branded a Criminal just got to love it!!!
Now to the subject at hand: The taxi drivers in NY are breathing a sigh of relief since the heats now off of them using the lower part of 10, as a recent trip to NY has proven... Oh did I forget to mention that they are now migrating into the 440 band!!! Or how about the Yuppie's kid in Raleigh singing on 220 simplex!!!
Where will the witch hunt end??
I sure hope the guy who's threatening to call on trucks with illegal radios don't see mine with all the antennas and an 857 sitting on the dash, although the fleet manager could use a good laugh after he assisted in attaching the Tarheel antenna to the headache rack.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by KC7PFR on July 31, 2004
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This is a HOT TOPIC. The mass amount of comments on this topic in such a short period of time is amazing.
The only way this illegal activity will end is if a few of these pirates are hammered with huge fines and the fine penalties are publisized widely. The fear factor needs to be instilled in the minds of pirates that they could face big fines. Otherwise, this activity will continue and get bigger and bigger until legal hams are in the minority on 10 meters.
The FCC seems to be doing very little about it.
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by AB8RU on August 1, 2004
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I was told by a fellow ham that Grand Rapids, Mi. has a Illeagle Linear Amplifier law that the City Police can enforce, what is also happening that these EXPORT RADIOS, EXPO BOARDS, MOD CHIPS, Linears that were dead been repiared and sold, Radios Modded like Radio Shack's HTX 100, Uniden 2600 series, Galaxys, Texas Star, etc. are out there RCI 2950 2975 also moddable, they call it Free Banding between 27.410-28.000 Mhz. there are ways to spot a Illeagle Mobile..
Looking at large coil antennas the Radio may have a heat sink on the rear and sometimes the AMP is mounted below it.
the best clue is Ebay they are rated at wattages like 2000 watts also another place stuff keeps appearing there.
getting a Bumper Mounted license plate number Truck ID & Some have Co. issued Truck number not at expressway speeds, usually driver is out to a Rest Stop I did this to a Pervert Soliciting on the AIr and Mailed a complaint to the FCC which resulted in action, also contact the Official Observer when you get a Plate & description, they in turn contact the FCC anyone recall the UPS Radio Removal after the NAL was Issued ?
Also do not approach the Driver unless you plan on getting a severe beating that you have to get hauled to a hospital, in some cases refer all info. to the OO, I myself am in a position with local State Police as an observer to report certain activity that requires a Special Enforcement Team, so Far last Arrests totaled 10 and the trouble maker is running out of Options, and I have acquired a skill in my 2 1/2 years there at my job that client has entrusted me quite a bit.
As to other types of operators is a different puppy, still big coil, some ask I tell them I am licensed therefore I have Authourity to operate there.
there is one Extra has a Texas Bug Catcher in his rig I know him & his XYL are licensed. but another is a VE we worked a exam this year together, so at least 2 I know are Extras doing it LEGALLY !!
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WD4RUG on October 15, 2004
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also we truckers are going to take over 10 meter repeaters love the freeband wildboy74@webtv.net email me love to chat
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KC0KBH on October 31, 2004
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Arrgh! I can't stand those retards. Whenever I hear them, I just jam them. It gives me a sense of satisfaction. If I got the chance, I would smash up their illegal radios into a million pieces. Or I would expose it to extremely high SWR and blow their finals. I do send messages to the seller of a "40 Channel AM/FM/SSB Ham Radio". It just tivks me off when I see those illegal radios and amplifiers.
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on November 4, 2004
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seems to me the FCC is creating a 10M business band by doing nothinng!
How stange that HAM amps have 10M missing.
10M will become a poor mans business band.
Us 10M CW ops got to have more QS0's on 10M.
Maybe we should stay awy from 20M. We can then legaly
run 1500W for QSO's
1.7Mhz of spectrum can hve mny hm use. Beacons, freq. translators. (10M to 440)
Use it cause the FCC wants us to loose it!
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WA2JJH on November 4, 2004
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seems to me the FCC is creating a 10M business band by doing nothinng!
How stange that HAM amps have 10M missing.
10M will become a poor mans business band.
Us 10M CW ops got to have more QS0's on 10M.
Maybe we should stay awy from 20M. We can then legaly
run 1500W for QSO's
1.7Mhz of spectrum can hve mny hm use. Beacons, freq. translators. (10M to 440)
Use it cause the FCC wants us to loose it!
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by VE2NSM on December 23, 2004
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Well, I will say it again...
Here goes:
STOP WHINING AND USE THE D*** BAND!!!!!
Why do you think they go there?
BECAUSE IT'S QUIET!!!
S***, it seems so logical I can not beleive I am the only one that thinks about it...yes? :-(
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Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-Mete
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by WD9FUM on January 1, 2005
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Every time I tune across the lower part of 10 Meters I hear taxi drivers. Let's all start nets there.
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by WA6CAQ on March 4, 2005
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COMMON FELLOW HAMS, DONT DESPAIR MAKE A HUGE NOICE AND ADVICE THAT THE DOT( DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION)- WHEN THEY INSPECT THESE TRUCKS ALSO INSPECT FOR AMPS AND LET THEM COLLECT HUGE FINES FOR THEIR WORK,AND CONVISCATE LINEARS AND RADIOS IN ON FOUL SWOOP.
THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WAYS of EXTRA INCOME FOR THEIR DEPTS. PLAIN AND SIMPLE KISS_ KEEP IT SIMPLE SWEETHEARTS! HAPPY QSOs,
73s AJ
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N4JBK on May 27, 2005
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"Willy" apparently has no idea how law enforcement works. Before an officer is able to take enforcement action on something new like this they must go through many hours of training so as to become competent with the laws and its ins and outs. What department would turn a " Barney Fife" loose to invetigate such laws with no more training than " willy" seems to think they have. In todays litigation happy society be sure that they will have the needed knowledge long before the first connex or texas star is touched. 73, N4JBK
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by N4JBK on May 27, 2005
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KI6LO, please read my reply to "WIlly"
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by RANDYH on June 1, 2005
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It's pretty dead on 10m where I live in western massachusetts. I do hear a lot of s#%t on CB ch 6, otherwise 10-12 is quiet up here.
RandyH
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RE: Truck Drivers Taking Over Lower Portion of 10-
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by KB3GTR on October 17, 2005
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Bob,
I think if we are going to ban truckers from having distractions in their vehicles, we need to be consistant and ban hams as well from having distractions in their vehicles.
I believe a ham can cause an accident just as well as anyone else.
Bill
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