Nature's Antennas...
(WY3X)
on
August 11, 2004
View comments about this article!
I've seen several articles as of late pertaining to using a tree as an antenna. The general idea goes like this: tap a nail into a tree, and tie the center conductor of your coax to the nail. Drive a ground rod into the ground, and tie the shield of your coax to the ground rod. Sounds very simple, eh?
When we do this, are we actually using the full body of the tree as the radiator (aka a shunt fed vertical with the base of the tree acting as an inductor), or are we making a resistive loop, (the distance between the ground rod and the tap on the tree acting as a big resistor, sort of like using a light bulb as an antenna)?
Thoughts? Opinions?
KR4WM
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by NA4IT on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The one thing to remember is the tree will radiate better for two reasons:
(1) When the leaves are on it, each and every one does it's part in acting as a capcity hat.
(2) The bigger the leaves, the more capcity.
And I oughta know, I live in Big Foot Tennessee.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KZ1X on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I actually sell a kit ($15) that helps hams hook trees up as antennas. By changing a jumper, my devices compensates for the loss of leaves in the fall. Or, you can use it with a fixed jumper if you connect to a coniferous tree.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KZ1X on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I actually sell a kit ($15) that helps hams hook trees up as antennas. By changing a jumper, my devices compensates for the loss of leaves in the fall. Or, you can use it with a fixed jumper if you connect to a coniferous tree.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K4CMD on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
This is intriguing, and either I've been under a rock for my 25 years of hamdom (which is probably true) or I've never heard of this.
Tell me, what effect does the fact that a tree is grounded have on this practice?
It just seems that if this was such an efficient, good-performing practice, this would've been all over the "covenant-restricted" and "apartment dwellers'" publications and web sites by now.
Tell us more!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KF4BWG Norris ,
Has a brought his talking tee to the Shelby Hamfest for years .
http://www.qsl.net/kf4bwg/ant.html
Here's an info page for you .
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
There's a picture of Norris talking with his ham friends back home ,using this Echolink Repeater node 3702.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WY3X on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>There's a picture of Norris talking with his ham friends
>back home ,using this Echolink Repeater node 3702.
And what has this got to do with using trees for
antennas? John, if you can't post on topic, at
least please keep your editorial opinion to yourself.
-Web
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K0RFD on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K4CMD wrote:
>Tell me, what effect does the fact that a tree is >grounded have on this practice?
That's DC ground. You have to drive in the nail at the 50-ohm feedpoint. Look for woodpecker holes, they tend to prefer places where the bugs resonate.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K5LXP on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
> we actually using the full body of the tree
> as the radiator
Have you considered the remote possibility that the coax may be radiating more than the tree? Feedlines have a tendancy to do that when terminated in other than their own impedance...
I've heard antennas made out of metal work pretty well too, and are easy to carry around.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W8JI on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Anyone who knows so little about conductors and antenna that he tries to load up a tree probably does not even realize what the antenna actually is.
I've noticed many of them even spell "antennas" (which is the accepted plural for a radio antenna, like the book "Antennas" by John Kraus W8JK) "antenne" (which is plural for insect parts, like my cockroach has two large antenne)in an effort to sound educated.
Trees don't make antennas, the wires and nails used to
"tap into" the tree are the actual radiator....NOT the tree itself.
Trees at best absorb most of the applied energy.
They are to be avoided near antennas, let alone to be used as an antenna.
73 Tom
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by G0ORC on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ermm,
Doesn't April 1st come round quickly these days.....
.....
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Trees radiate especially well if the base surrounding the tree is kept moist on a regular basis and if lumps of fertilizer containing iron (Fe - Atomic #26) deposits are adequately placed around your yard to act as skywave deflection devices.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC2MWJ on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've got a Brand new MFJ-23333 SWR/Tree analyzer to sell ya. Nigerian money orders accepted.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'd like to order one of the Tree Analyzers quickly, to see if I can get a working prototype.
By the time Martin (MFJ) gets it into the catalog, they'll be backordered and more expensive!
"Rig here is an IC-7800 into a 52 foot maple. In Spring, I should be a bit stronger, as it will be 54 feet."
WB2WIK/6
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by AL2I on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
What is the velocity factor for a tree? As we increase frequency, shouldn't we choose trees with a smaller trunk diameter? Why are the bands always so dead? Can I trim a potted tree to be an efficient quarter-wave vertical? Will a Bonsai tree work as a microwave radiater, or must I use seedlings? How about phased tree pairs? Limbs as tuning stubs?
I loaded up a lawn chair for fun once, and I always thought a lawn chair contest would be as much fun as a QRP contest. How about a tree to tree DX contest? LOL!
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KD5VHF on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Even better performance can be had when two trees are used. Just string a wire between the two trees and feed the center of the wire with your choice of coax or twin lead. You may have to adjust the length of wire between the two trees to co-phase the trees for optimum performance.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KG4QLO on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It might not be so far fetched, An old HAM told me that in World War 2 the Japanese used trees for antennas for military com. on some of the little islands. US had a heck of a time finding their transmission source because they could move from tower to tower so quickly. Maybe someone else has heard of such a story? Maybe they had monkeys trained to tap the null....LOL
73, KG4QLO
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Yes, but what type and height of tree best approximates a Fan Dipole?
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WY3X on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I see many comments posted that think this is a joke- but I assure you, it's -NOT-! The U.S. military Special Forces used "tree antennas" in Vietnam as a way to quickly set up and move from one location to another without having a bunch of wire in the air. Yes, range was somewhat limited. I like the one explanation that the short piece of wire between the radio and the tree is the actual radiator, but this doesn't wash, as the wires were kept very short, and tapping up and down the tree near the base actually does produce an SWR null. It is -claimed- that the moisture in the tree IS the antenna, but I don't understand this theory- I'm thinking that you are creating a resistive loop between the nail in the tree and the ground. This is a great discussion, but more worthy of actual information rather than speculation that it's a joke. I posted this as a serious article. Those who think it's an April Fools joke should do some research on the internet....
73, KR4WM
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KE4ZHN on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Yeah...........uhhuh.....right! Get out the hipwaders and the shovels...its getting deep in here.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>There's a picture of Norris talking with his ham friends
>back home ,using this Echolink Repeater node 3702.
And what has this got to do with using trees for
antennas? John, if you can't post on topic, at
least please keep your editorial opinion to yourself.
-Web
Web you need to get a life ! If you would have went to his Webpage you would have saw information about Norris talking Tree . Get over it all ready ! Stop being childish
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Web his website has instructions with pictures about using tree's also . You need to get a life !
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Manufacturers Link: http://www.mfjtreeanalyzer/specificationssetup/info.html
I found this in a past QST article.
Quote:
"The MFJ-23333 SWR/Tree analyzer is an accurate and effective device for the arborist ham. One must fully understand the principles of T.U.R.D.(Tuning Uniform Redirected Directivity)to fully utilize and understand this equipment to ensure it's desired effect and operation.
Tree hams have been branching out in central Europe for many years now. Many have been constructing and growing their own tree analyzer devices for many years now.
This growing trend resulted from many dog house ham shacks in backyards that have been getting off the ground lately. Tree shacks as they are commonly referred to, are often well equipped with trunk tracking hammocks, electricity and enough food for even the most discriminating field day DX'er.
The ARRL arborist handbook (third edition -1997) originally published by W1TREE is a valuable resource that outlines the many aspects of setting up your own Arboriculture tree ham shack. You can purchase this publication(Visa/MC)online from this source:
http://www.arrl.org/technical/publications/w1tree/handbooks/index.html.
* We would like to thank W1TREE for this contribution in this issue. W1TREE can be reached by email or by calling him using your trunk tracking scanner device on any frequency."
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>> I've noticed many of them even spell "antennas" (which is the accepted plural for a radio antenna, like the book "Antennas" by John Kraus W8JK) "antenne" (which is plural for insect parts, like my cockroach has two large antenne)in an effort to sound educated. <<
I saw a similar article about this on treeham...
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Seriously, I tried one of these tree antennas once but my radio got nothing but birdies!
And as for you guys with the MFJ analyzer - you're just way out on a limb!
73, Pete
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
you hams won't get away with this tree pollution! THis is bad technology! I'm going to register a complaint with the FCC!
Squirrel Nutkin
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Web, any conductor is a radiator, but it takes very low resistance to create an efficient radiator. The resistance in even a "wet" tree is so high that it's mostly a dissipator, not a radiator.
Kind of like the "sea water" antennas. They work, too, but are highly inefficient because they dissipate more energy than they radiate.
I'll bet you a lobster dinner that no matter how you try this, if you replace the tree with a string of 100 Ohm resistors soldered together in series and having the equivalent length of the feedpoint to ground distance, it would radiate at least as well, probably better.
Of course, that's going out on a limb!
WB2WIK/6
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KB2IUA on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Tree antennas? Seems the sap is running and it isn't even spring!
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by VE4HQ on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Trees are quite helpfull to hams. I have been keeping a log in the shack for some time now.
|
| |
|
Unintentional Radiator
|
|
|
by KA4KOE on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
An unintentional radiator is how I would categorize a tree.
Also, DED 14 is coming very, very soon.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KG4WRQ on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KR4WM,
re: "I see many comments posted that think this is a joke"...
I suspect some of the replies are from folks that realize that you're not joking. But, the subject matter just begs for humor. I found the subject to very interesting. Really!
However, I have to admit that I am trying to finish this line:
"If a a tree-antenna fell in a forest, and no one was around to....."
Tom KG4WRQ
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KA5N on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
If you Gamma match a tree do you cross two branches to tune? Can you use a grape vine as a hairpin match? Is the problem with twisted roots called radial bound? How much gain does an orchard have?
Arboral questions abound!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W0FM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
....monitor the frequency, would it still be a tree antenna?
WØFM
(Tom beat me to it!)
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by G0GQK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
If I knocked a nail into a six feet 2 inch bush wrapped some wire round it, shoved some RF in would it radiate and then shrivel up ?
Its not April.........is it ?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Question:
I am currently using a 30 foot oak tree mounted on the bumper of my Jeep Cherokee for mobile HF operation and I was wondering if this "stealth" antenna performs as well as, or better than a bugcatcher, or am I merely barking up the wrong tree?...
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Sir Isaac Newton formulated his theories on gravity while sitting under an antenna.
"I think that I shall never see a poem lovely as an antenna."
He couldn't see the forest for the antennas!
Will N6TR change his nickname to "Antenna?"
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
BTL = Broadband over Tree Limbs
Which is, of course, being championed by George W Bush.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N3EVL asks:
>> Seriously, I tried one of these tree antennas once but my radio got nothing but birdies! <<
Have you tried "pruning" your antenna?
... o O (I just can't seem to help myself)
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KO6IC on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have a beautiful oak in my back yard that I think will make a great antenna. Wanting to make sure that I matched impedance properly I started looking at different feed lines.
Nothing seemed to be quite right until I was leaving Home Depot yesterday when it hit me (literarily). There it was. Rigid ladder line made out of the same material as the tree. Since the rails are about 14” apart, I expect that this is a high impedance low loss line. I didn’t know the exact length that I needed, so I bought the extension version.
After reading the specifications on the side of the rigid ladder line, I found out it was quite strong. I can hold over 250 lbs. However, after checking the literature and the internet, I can’t find for the life of me find out what the impedance is. Also, In order to build my feed line supports, I need to know how far above ground and away from other wooden objects I need to keep this feed line.
Any help that anyone can give me would truly be appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
KO6IC
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W4SK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Finally! A reliable explanation for yesteryear's Russian "woodpecker" interference. All that bogus bidness from ARLL about "over the horizon radar" was, in fact, natural interference from woodpeckers.
Or is it 'peckerwoods'?
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K4GLM on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You guys are nuts!
Actually the Live Wire group has been working on this.
They also do the Ionic Liquid antenna, salt water or calcium cloride et al. The ionic antennas seem to be very low noise. They have potential....RF,RF,RF!
Also a little known area is the research into more efficent lumber production. It seems that the farming of SQUARE TREES is just around the corner...
:)
Shannon K4GLM
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W4VR on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I loaded a tree for many years and did not even know it; the tree grew over the insulator on my end-fed wire. Another thing you may want to try is loading a bed spring, cold water pipe in your basement, or a dummy load; they all radiate almost as well as the tree you're talking about.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K0RFD on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
G0GQK wrote:
>If I knocked a nail into a six feet 2 inch bush...
> ...would it radiate and then shrivel up ?
Yes, but the Bush would send out a bunch of people to the sunday morning talk shows to convince the public it was someone else's fault.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
If you sent out a CQ into your wood antenna, and nobody heard the signal did you really send CQ!
I wood think an antenna wood act more like a dummies
dummy load.
PSE NT ALL SPLNG MSTKS IN MY POST R INTIONL
73 MIKE
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by AC5E on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Actually, the cambium layer, the part of the tree some call the "underbark," is sufficently conductive to make an inefficent sort of antenna.
Conductivity varies by the seasons, the amount of soil moisture, the species of the tree, and to a lesser extent to the individual tree.
Yes, you can use a tree for an antenna. Yes, the tree will radiate. So will an equal length of nichrome (resistance) wire. And the resistance wire will probably be the better radiator. But if you must, you must!
Bottom line. What do you call "natures antennnas?" Very poor.
73 Pete Allen AC5E
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K1MVP on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And does the "standard" formula for calculating
the length of the tree(vertical ant) still hold
true?--in other words, approx. 60 ft for an 80mtr
tree, es 30 feet for one trimmed for 40 meters,
with a chainsaw of course.
How about the number of radials? So how many "tree
roots" would suffice?
73, K1MVP
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K0CBA on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Web, you bet your booties it has and is being done. The military has piddled with them for years. The effeciency stinks but where all else is lacking it beats a blank. For all the poo-poo'ers that have made negative comments all I can say is they must be too inexperienced to know about "stub loading" because that is what is basically being done. It works on grounded water towers, ham towers, etc. EVERYTHING that conducts has a resonant frequency! The trick is to find the spot where it is as close to the desired impedence in relation to the desired frequency. BTW, as the folliage and sap content changes seasonally so will those contitions.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"... For all the poo-poo'ers that have made negative comments all I can say is they must be too inexperienced to know about "stub loading" because that is what is basically being done..."
Don't you mean "Shrub Loading" ? Maybe that's just for saps ;)
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WD4BRP on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The first day of each month should become known as Fool's Day.
This way we can enjoy Fool's Day all year long, not just in the month of April.
73 de Bill
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K0CBA, shunt feeding works fine when you're dealing with real conductors. The resistance of the typical shunt-fed tower is a small number of milliOhms -- a very small number, and the smaller, the better.
Finding a tap point at a specific *impedance* has absolutely nothing to do with that, other than you'll never find a 50 Ohm tap point if the resistance of the conductor being driven is in the hundreds or thousands of Ohms, as it absolutely is guaranteed to be with a tree.
Stapling a copper wire to the side of the tree, along its vertical height, would make this work a whole lot better.
WB2WIK/6
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WD4BRP on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have three large Oak trees in my back yard. I would like to use these as a phased vertical array.
Can anyone tell me how to load my oak trees ?
Thanks Fool !
73 de Bill
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by NA4IT on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Someone had asked the question how tall the tree would need to be to ake it a fan dipole.
Now you listen here! Just cause we're making antenners out a trees don't mean you have to get all technical on usn's. Why, ever good amanur radio opterater knows a fan dipole is hori...hori... flat!
Therefore, it ain't the height of the tree that matters, it's how many and how long the limbs are.
Of course all this could change if the tree has been cut down...
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N3EVL on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NA4IT:
Thanks for the Fan Dipole technical data, OM - couldn't have put it better myself - I bough to your superior knowledge.
Anyway, I've got a much better tree antenna now - I call it a Log Periodic - Dohhh!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And what has this got to do with using trees for
antennas? John, if you can't post on topic, at
least please keep your editorial opinion to yourself.
-Web
Sir !Yes !Sir ! May I eat my jelly donut now ?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W5MEJ on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KR4WM Said...
" see many comments posted that think this is a joke- but I assure you, it's -NOT-! The U.S. military Special Forces used "tree antennas" in Vietnam as a way to quickly set up and move from one location to another without having a bunch of wire in the air"
I've seen several references in this thread to the Army using this technique...i sure would like to see some documentation on that!
I'm retired Army, and have built my share of field expedient antennas. I've also used most of the antennas that the Army has in it's inventory. I've still got several Army communication manuals, including the Special Forces FM. I've never seen this in any of the manuals, and i've never had anyone suggest that i should try to "load up a tree" for an antenna.
One that did work fairly well for short to medium range HF, though, was a standard dipole. Made from commo wire (WD-1) laying on the ground. Quick to set up, worked decent as an NVIS antenna, and could be abandoned quickly if the situation called for it.
Not a great antenna, but it would sure beat trying to load a tree!
73
Chuck
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W1BAK on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Now you did it...! You made milk spurt from my nose! Damn...I haven't done that since the old lady next door fell on the ice out front and showed the world she didn't believe in underwear!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W8JI on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
by K0CBA on August 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Web, you bet your booties it has and is being done. The military has piddled with them for years. The effeciency stinks but where all else is lacking it beats a blank. For all the poo-poo'ers that have made negative comments all I can say is they must be too inexperienced to know about "stub loading" because that is what is basically being done.>>>>
It appears you haven't the slightest idea about the resitivity of a tree.
I cut a pine tree up. Pines have a very acidic goo-like sap. If anything is conductive they should be near the top.
I measured the resitance in a one foot area of trunk and it was kilo ohms per foot with a large plate at each end to make connections.
An object with even hundreds of ohms per foot has NO useful resonances.
What all these silly people are doing, including the guy at the Hamfest, is loading up the wire used to "feed" the tree. Because they don't understand what actually is the antenna, they think the tree is radiating.
73 Tom
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W0MT on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hey, I think we may be on to something here. I suggest that we try various tree species to see which ones make the best antenna. My suggetion is that we start with NUT trees. Although, FRUIT trees also seem like a good starting point.
And rather than using field strength meters, we can use my old hound that I let out. He goes up to trees and lifts his leg . . . well you know what he does. If this baby is really putting out the RF energy, his howls will let us know. The louder the howl, the better the tree as an antenna.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K1MVP on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Maybe some of this "antenna tree info" could be
forwarded to the ARRL lab for review as they might
to include some questions about "tree loading"
on the new question pools for licensing.
73, K1MVP
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by NA4IT on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Someone mentioned using "fruit" or "nut" trees...
That reminds me, did you know this thread / discussion is like a breakfast cereal?
You gonna luv this one...
All the posters here are...
FRUITS, FLAKES, AND NUTS!
Of course me included...
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 11, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
They do make these cell phone antenna's(i) that have to be more enviormentally friendly.
They can make these cell site antenna'a(i) to look like brick, wood bark, or what ever needed to make the ugly cell site array antenna(i) blend into the back ground.
Perhaps that is what you saw on the web was something like that.
Perhaps you saw a dipole that was made to blend in with tree(s). The conductor were wire. Perhaps the insulation, insulators,balun were given the color and texture of the tree's for that theater of operation.
There is much dis-info on the web too.
Actually try using brown zip cord as a long wire or dipole. You will find that brown zip cord would blend in very well with tree(s).
In general all organic matter are more insulating than conducting.
However there are new conducting ORGANIC POLYMERS.
Saw the new OLED a year ago. An L.e.d. made of carbon organic matter. Some cool stuff is coming in a few years.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KE4MOB on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've actually refined the technique of using trees as antennas. Trees are too non-uniform to be of any use. I prefer to go to the nearest Lowe's/Home Depot and get salt treated lumber. 2x4x8's are perfect for 10 meter work. For lowband work I prefer 2x12x12s bolted together end to end.
You have to be careful though in selecting the lumber. Warped wood will mess up your modulation!! And knotholes cause impedance bumps.
Just imagine being on the air, looking up and seeing your SWR slowly rising. You key down and say "hey, I gotta run, the termites are at it again!!"
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W5MEJ on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I wooden be caught dead using something like that for an antenna!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by X-WB1AUW on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I heard that the Special Forces are loading up the albino alligators that are in the sewer system in NYC. By all accounts, they are gigantic; make a dipole outa two of them. Their skin acts as a natural insulator. Just drive a nail into each tail, attach the coax, and call CQ.
Bob
PS: I heard that each PL259 has 1db loss; attaching two pieces of coax and PL259s has about a 3db loss.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W9OY on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KE4OMB wrote
>>I've actually refined the technique of using trees as antennas. Trees are too non-uniform to be of any use. I prefer to go to the nearest Lowe's/Home Depot and get salt treated lumber. 2x4x8's are perfect for 10 meter work. For lowband work I prefer 2x12x12s bolted together end to end.
You have to be careful though in selecting the lumber. Warped wood will mess up your modulation!! And knotholes cause impedance bumps.
>>
Does that mean if I run a spike into my roof trusses I have a multi element delta loop beam?
W9OY
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K1MVP on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And all these years I always took special care to
trim any branches to maintain lots of "clearance"
between my antenna es said branches.
Now I find out that my antenna would actually radiate
better, if these branches were to actually make
contact with the antenna.
73, K1MVP
P.S., Think I`ll try es load my sardine sender,
(half watt) xmtr into one of my maple trees
in my backyard, es try for WAS.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Geomagnetic Terrestrial Tree Optimization & Electron Fluence Chart Data for HF frequencies.
> >Dec 23 to Jan 01 - Apple Tree
> >Jan 01 to Jan 11 - Fir Tree
> >Jan 12 to Jan 24 - Elm Tree
> >Jan 25 to Feb 03 - Cypress Tree
> >Feb 04 to Feb 08 - Poplar Tree
> >Feb 09 to Feb 18 - Cedar Tree
> >Feb 19 to Feb 28 - Pine Tree
> >Mar 01 to Mar 10 - Weeping Willow Tree
> >Mar 11 to Mar 20 - Lime Tree
> >Mar 21 (only) -Oak Tree
> >Mar 22 to Mar 31 - Hazelnut Tree
> >Apr 01 to Apr 10 - Rowan Tree
> >Apr 11 to Apr 20 - Maple Tree
> >Apr 21 to Apr 30 - Walnut Tree
> >May 01 to May 14 - Poplar Tree
> >May 15 to May 24 - Chestnut Tree
> >May 25 to Jun 03 - Ash Tree
> >Jun 04 to Jun 13 - Hornbeam Tree
> >Jun 14 to Jun 23 - Fig Tree
> >Jun 24 (only) - Birch Tree
> >Jun 25 to Jul 04 - Apple Tree
> >Jul 05 to Jul 14 - Fir Tree
> >Jul 15 to Jul 25 -Elm Tree
> >Jul 26 to Aug 04 - Cypress Tree
> >Aug 05 to Aug 13 - Poplar Tree
> >Aug 14 to Aug 23 - Cedar Tree
> >Aug 24 to Sep 02 - Pine Tree
> >Sep 03 to Sep 12 - Weeping Willow Tree
> >Sep 13 to Sep 22 - Lime Tree
> >Sep 23 (only) - Olive Tree
> >Sep 24 to Oct 03 - Hazelnut Tree
> >Oct 04 to Oct 13 - Rowan Tree
> >Oct 14 to Oct 23 - Maple Tree
> >Oct 24 to Nov 11 - Walnut Tree
> >Nov 12 to Nov 21 - Chestnut Tree
> >Nov 22 to Dec 01 - Ash Tree
> >Dec 02 to Dec 11 - Hornbeam Tree
> >Dec 12 to Dec 21 - Fig Tree
> >Dec 22 (only) - Beech Tree
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas - Real Experiment
|
|
|
by KT8K on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Back in the '70's I loaded a 110 foot Chinese elm by putting a dozen turns of wire around the base of the trunk with the turns spaced 6" apart. Performance was ... worse than lousy. It WAS an experiment, though. I never tried capacitive coupling (gamma match, for example), only inductive.
Now I use my slingshot to put a wire straight up from the base of the tree to the top. Tuned against a good radial field it makes a great all-band vertical.
73 de kt8k - Tim
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4LVC on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello.
Many years ago I found this information in an old Army Filed Radio Ops manual. You can, indeed use a tree to radiate RF. However, it does need to be one of a handful of specific kinds of trees; something to do with the H2O content (which is what actually carries the current). I do not recall what any of the trees are, but I suspect that they would be the more "sappy" or "lucious" types.
I cannot believe that a tree would make any kind of efficient radiator. I believe the manual stated that these trees could be used in emergency conditions when no other radior is available.
BTW, I was in the Guard as a commo repair man. While looking through some OLD manuals in a dusty filing cabinet, I came accross this same information.
KF4LVC
Vince
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K8FLY on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well i dont understand all the laughter , trees serve as excellant lightning protection ( basicly tall pillars of water ) im sure tapping into the main stream of water might very possibily have the ability to radiate , especially if they trees were cophased.
but i have yet to ever try this. maybe one day more will come out on this besides laughter , but i must admitt it sounds funny . maybe i can get out of stringing lights this xmas & just work cw useing my blue spruces . Ihope one day to see what serious experimentations produce useing trees as radiators .
im sure the laughter will quell to hmmmmmmmmm
Bill k8fly
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K8FLY on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well i dont understand all the laughter , trees serve as excellant lightning protection ( basicly tall pillars of water ) im sure tapping into the main stream of water might very possibily have the ability to radiate , especially if they trees were cophased.
but i have yet to ever try this. maybe one day more will come out on this besides laughter , but i must admitt it sounds funny . maybe i can get out of stringing lights this xmas & just work cw useing my blue spruces . Ihope one day to see what serious experimentations produce useing trees as radiators .
im sure the laughter will quell to hmmmmmmmmm
Bill k8fly
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K0CBA on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
WB2WIK.."Finding a tap point at a specific *impedance* has absolutely nothing to do with that, other than you'll never find a 50 Ohm tap point if the resistance of the conductor being driven is in the hundreds or thousands of Ohms, as it absolutely is guaranteed to be with a tree."
Did I say 50 ohms anywhere????
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
That certainly would be a good design for one of the antenna manufactures.
Build a vertical into a dead tree.
Your neighbors cannot complain about a tree.
You could run the radials in the roots!
I am sure a real tree would work as a very poor antenna. No matter if you sap loaded it or used a" trunk" system.
Ur best bet would be an XMAS tree. Load up into the wiring for the bulbs : )
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W2DUG on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Since when did "es" become an acceptable substitution for "and" in written communication?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K0IZ on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Sugar maple trees will not work. If you try to make a feedpoint tap, some kind of syrupy "current" will leak out. If you do try this, better get a bucket to catch the leakage and avoid a big mess.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KB2PSM on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
So it goes to say that I can use the power company's wooden pole in the backyard!
Lemme see, let's call is BPLP
Broadcasting over Power Line Poles!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have to give credit to anyone (including the author) that makes attempts to conduct research involving antenna experimentation regardless of the light hearted humor involved.
Here's one that is somewhat interesting. The author describes various experimentation using underground antennas and their ability to receive signals with greater strength and clarity than conventional antennas located above the ground.
Something to do with geomagnetic bioactivity of subterranean propagation.
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm
Interesting read...
73
Charles - KC8VWM
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W5AOX on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You unbelievers are STOOPID. I have tried this and it WORKS. I get TREEmendous signal reports from BOTH the hams I've worked. Do the math. Take the square ROOTS of the number of trees loaded divided by the number of PL-259's and other adapters involved in loading the tree. You will find that each adaptor or PL259 attached to a tree has 1 dB GAIN, since it is a GREEN-friendly service. And, Trees are truly SOLAR POWERED.
So stop the laughing already.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K3ESE on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W1BAK wrote:
"Now you did it...! You made milk spurt from my nose!"
...and he wasn't even drinking milk at the time!!!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KT8K on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I looked at KC8VWM's link to a write-up on "ground antennas", and I think it is one of the biggest agglomerations of pseudo-scientific bunk I have seen in a while. There can be only two reasons for writing this kind of stuff - one is that the authors are totally clueless and probably very poorly educated, and the other is that one or more of them is out to defraud people of their money. I have done my own experiments with so-called ground antennas after being introduced to them by a sometime-ham in 1975 or so, and it is clear that there are simple explanations for the observed phenomenon, and that most receivers are sensitive enough to pull in a half-decent signal from any available source - house wiring, a wire to a poor ground (better if unshielded), or their own chassis'.
There's one born every minute!
73 de kt8k - Tim
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Thanks for the review Tom...
I was thinking that since we were on the topic of strange and weird antennas, this article would fit the bill rather nicely.
73 Charles
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The author did bother to publish. He might be new and wanted to see if such antenna's(i) are so pedestrian, impossible or an urban legend.
The writer may want to see it proven wrong by physics. Many did an excellent job. Some good tree/wood jokes came out too. Lighten up!
That says something.
Who the F knows maybe one of the black helicopter alphabet agencie's were looking in to it!
One could take this as a joke
One could take it as uncertain, but a nice read and some creative feedback after.
One does not have to read someones work and look for spelling and/or grammer mistakes, then be so banal
to comment on said matter.
What do you accomplish by being COP-IN-A-TUDE!
I see too much of that at times. Yeah, you can show you have more knowledge in the lexicon of knowledge.
So what!
I think this is why many newbies are afraid to write anything.
I am not saying that any piece of literary trash that is deliberlatly and malaciously leading one to a morbid path should be tolerated either.
atr rdng ths n all u cld do ws to find err or flt, u shld tke a gd lk at 1 slf
_ .... .. ... .--. --- ... - .-- .- ... fer only one NCT - .... .- - .. ... a real -.. .r. .- -.!!!!!! -. -.-. t, that .. find .---- . . if u tk ofce W/ it is unintedd !!!
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 12, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<<<<Since when did "es" become an acceptable substitution for "and" in written communication? >>>>>
I rest my case!!!!
However you do want to be noticed, and want to make a contribution. You feel left out.
ET... BTW is Yiddish for without.
The EGG CREAM is really ET Cream!
Without cream. However some low brow dullard at ELLIS island called this mixture of MILK, crushed ice,highly carbonated water, and the all important syrup or sap an EGG CREAM.
There is no Egg in an Egg cream. However you seem to have a flair for either symantics or pedestrian banality. Whichif is it. What is you opinion or joke on this topic!?
Who are you. Why do you read E-Ham only to causticly
lambast or snicker at someone making a typo.
You get more, by stepping up to the plate and not let people convince you that it is good to be a troll.
YEAH, I make lotsa typo's S.F.W You aint goona change me! Be creative for once, even if it is an insult.
I could have taken a cheap shot and put in your call.
You know exactly what I could comment on that would annoy you, yet I will not!
We both know what your agenda and motives are.
if u cn rd ts tn it s tme to\ lrn -- --- .-. sss .
-.-. u unhpy w/n -.-. --- -.. .
- .... .. ... - .... . --- -. lrn -.-. --- d .
U wll no lngr be upset!
What does all this psycobabble have to do with loading up a tree for an antenna? Why dont you start there!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Who are you. Why do you read E-Ham only to causticly
lambast or snicker at someone making a typo."
Hi, this is your English teacher.. I will be assisting you while you are online. I will be monitoring your every move for spelling mistakes and grammer. Your postings will be performance graded for accuracy and you will get a little gold star if your spelling is always correct.
o O (Or is it, "if your spelling are always correct?)
yer spelling was always correct?
you're speeling is alwayz corect...
ERROR 404 - File Not Found
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
oh no Charles found MRS Flemming my horrible first grade teacher. Her name had much ring to it. She always had throught oysters.
SHE WAS A REAL -... .. - -.-. - ....!!!!!!!
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Now you did it...! You made milk spurt from my nose!"
...and he wasn't even drinking milk at the time!!!
Well you sure lucked out! I was drinking piping hot lobster bisque at THAT time.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by X-WB1AUW on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hence the expression, "Your signal report is Tree-Top-Tall".
I be destinated.
3s
Bob
PS: this might be a job for "MYTH BUSTERS"?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W2DUG on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Look like JJH is off his meds again. You can tell by the way he inflates a simple one-line comment to a superfluity of his trademark manic, malevolent prattle.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KN4LF on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
More ignorant junk science crapola posted to eham.net.
If anything radiates it's the coax feedline without a BALUN, NOT THE TREE!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Plant City, FL, USA
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KN4LF on August 13, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Oh by the way I forgot to mention something. I may be BARKING up the wrong tree asking this question but I'm STUMPED about something. If I have three trees spaced apart like a vertical yagi, will changing the spacing between the main vertical tree trunks by trimming the horizontal limbs change the F/B ratio?
73,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Plant City, FL, USA
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 14, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>> If anything radiates it's the coax feedline without a BALUN, NOT THE TREE!!!!!!!!!! >>>
You never know...
Hey, ...to the guy in "Plant City" hmmmm. are you actually asking that question?
Obviously it appears that your "trunk" is always radiating in a F/B ratio....
Would it be any other way?
73
Charles - KC8VWM
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by IX4NT on August 14, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Some people are confusing April Fool's articles on Earth antennas with tree antennas. Most of you should be aware that US and Israeli forces conduct joint operations and exercises and share technology. During the 1967 war, we used US 'tree antennas' to provide forward observer data to artillery and naval warships. Tree antennas will radiate, but not efficiently. We used them more for transmit-only applications. You won't work duplex DX with a tree antenna, but for quick and dirty military transmit-only applications, they're pretty nifty.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KA4KOE on August 15, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
DUG
I am a friend of Mike's, and I can truly say he's never been off his meds. Be thankful, NO VERY THANKFUL, this is the case.
PHILIP
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by AA4PB on August 15, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You won't work duplex DX with a tree antenna, but for quick and dirty military transmit-only applications, they're pretty nifty.
--------------------------------------------
Now why is it that a tree antenna will transmit but not receive?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by IX4NT on August 16, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AA4PB provides a perfect example of why 'what is said and how it is said' can negatively affect credibility. I see this same problem in FCC ECFS comments and in comments in here.
Where in my post does it say that a tree antenna does not receive? The advantage to the tree antenna is that its infrastructure can remain in place without detection. The user hooks up, tunes up as best he can, and transmits in the blind. All I said was that we used them primarily for transmit-only applications.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W5WJP on August 16, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Check out this link. This guy also invented multiplexing.
http://www.rexresearch.com/squier/squier.htm
73,
W5WJP
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by M0VAA on August 16, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've just skimmed through this informative string and I'm surprised there are no references to tree element yagis.
I thought most W's had one!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K4JSR on August 17, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I am afraid that anyone using a tree element yagi would be a candidate for a root awakening!
Did you know that the majority carriers for tree antennas is knot holes? If this inane asylum goes much
further, JJH and KOE will start writing their famous
"LIMBericks"!
JJH, this thread was brought to you by the ham on rye
sandwich conspiracy, Hoffa Burgers, and $5.00 hamfest
fetid hotdogs.
I think I will LEAF this thread now, but I will be
pining away to come back and needle youse guyz!
Pines make the best board band antennas because you can use dis cone or dat cone!
73, Cal K4JSR
Bored Feet, Ga.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by SPOT2112 on August 17, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
What's even goofier is that its actually spelled antennae. So they really are malaprops!
|
| |
|
Leave the Beers
|
|
|
by KA4KOE on August 17, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Can one brew a brewsky from fermented tree leaves. If not, lets buy one ready-made.
Beer's on me, lads!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by K4KWH on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Gentlemen,
I can understand your mirth. But I have seen this with my own eyes at the Shelby, NC hamfest coming up
on Labor Day. I make no claims on the effectiveness of the tree, but I HAVE observed this for, at least, for the last 4 years. Every year this guy named Norris sets up just a few spaces from me. I always go up to Shelby as soon as they open for spaces (ya gotta move fast to get a spot). Within a few days, a small sapling will appear on the "midway". He demonstrates the use of trees as antennas and I saw the article in one of the ham mags. Yes, I laughed, too, when I first saw it, but I WATCHED the demonstration. HOW it works and WHY it works, even how WELL it works, I do not know. I just SAW him doing this! :-)
73
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KF4VGX on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Norris , KF4BWG .If you have missed the opportunity to talk with Norris, you have missed the opportunity of a lifetime. This Man is Amateur Radio finest ;-).
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Philip, do not pay DUG no mind! wnna good laugh...check out his ULS FCC info. Vanity call NCT less than 2 years old.
The guy is a dim witted moron. Just lets all of us do a 6 alpha on his further postings.
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W2DUG on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
JJH, you DO know that the FCC database resets the expiration date when you get a vanity call, don't you? In other words, the date shown there is when I got the vanity call, NOT when I originally got the license. This is just a helpful little tidbit you can use next time you want to insult somebody publicly to avoid embarassing yourself like you did this time.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
anybody try loading up a copper/silver/or gold mine.
SET of one of them small nukes and you have a waveguide?
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
fRANKLY W2DUG...I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY
ITS YOUR ATTITUDE, TOWARDS ME. FWIW you are the only one I admit I HAVE EVER DONE THIS WITH!
Are you a troll. Or are you ultra insecure about something.
Whats with your retracted profile. All photo's gone.
You MOS? If so, Bring that to the table.
What got you into ham radio
What bands or modes do you operate.
The only time you ever write ANYTHING is to snicker at somebody.
Why do you not come in from the cold, and post something constructive. Be part rather than be apart?
I got no problems with you. Why do you like to try to stir up trouble
BTW my ragaologues are a joke and I am never angry when I write them!
We have a few options Ignore each other.
TAKE IT TO EMAIL. RESOLVE IT!
Best option.....Today is a new day. We both FAHGETBOUT-it.Start fresh
I see you have trouble learning CW. SO DID I!
You will not get me to rally for the 5WPM requirement to be dropped.
Certain NCT's have great operating and technical skills. I would rally for them. REALLY I WOULD!
I think if you reached out more, you would get more.
So how about it?
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by W2DUG on August 18, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
JJH, I learned as a kid if you don't react when someone is teasing you, they'll eventually stop. You ought to try that...except I think you can't stand it when you don't have the last word (in your case, the last lecture). Let's see...
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KB9YZL on August 19, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Hmmmm.......If you used a pine tree, would that make it a "Fir Dipole"?
|
| |
|
RE: Leave the Beers
|
|
|
by K4KWH on August 19, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KF4VGX,
Tnx, not sure what you mean by directions. Were you anwering my post? Anyhow, if you come to Shelby, NC
hamfest (they call it the 'granddaddy of them all'), it is as the Shelby Fairgrounds off Hiway 18. Inside the hamfest, find the Shiner's Pagoda in the center of the lower Midway. IWO, just follow the path from the main gate down the hill bearing to the right past the "Goforth Bldg". If Norris sets up where he always has every year, to find him, go down to the hill to the intersection that leads to the lower gate (there's another gate at the rear of the grounds, but let's keep it simple, OK?). Past the Shiner's Pagoda, continue south on the first unpaved "row" of tailgaters. Look to the right as you walk, and you should see a small "tree", or sapling. Norris usually sets up and demonstrates the use of trees. He also sells VHF and UHF J-poles. So if you wanna find that this is not a joke, come to Shelby this year on Labor Day weekend. It actually gets rolling about Wednesday prior to the actual 2 day event and, by Friday, people are wheeling and dealing to beat the band--all most as much as on the actual weekend!! Then come to see me and Jim, K4 EEEEEEEEEE DK (that's the way he signs his call) just a few spaces down. I should have
Icom tuning modules and some of my screwdrivers. I might even have a cold "Co-coler" as we say in the South! LOL!
As for the tree antennas, it IS real, but I don't promise you will get a "tree-mendous" signal with it!
(SNORT Giggle!)
Sorry, I couldn't help it!) ;-)
73
K4KWH
veteran of Shelby hamfests since 1966!
|
| |
|
Does DUG DIG beer?
|
|
|
by KA4KOE on August 19, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
My solution for your angst is a nice, cold, fresh,
.......you guessed it!!!
BEER!!
And if you show up in Savannah, Georgia and give me some advance notice, I'm buying. Think I'm kidding?
TRY ME!!!
Anyone who would drive down from 2 land would deserve it.
Cheers Dude. Now go post something on DED 14 like a good lad.
PHILIP
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KD5DFM on August 19, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>k0iz said Sugar maple trees will not work. If you try >to make a feedpoint tap, some kind of >syrupy "current" will leak out. If you do try this, >better get a bucket to catch the leakage and avoid a >big mess.
and dont forget the pancakes ;-P
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by DD3LY on August 20, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Due to the resistive loss of the fluid inside the tree resonance effects will be low. For military users resitive broadband radiators are common. One example is an 5kW antenna (yes, just a single whip) for 2-30MHz made by Valcom. Some kind of radiating dummy like a tree but nothing to worry about VSWR like a tree.
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by AA1LL on August 20, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You can look at it either way (loop or monopole, referring to the original post) which again makes the point about antennas: There are many ways to look at the same structure electromagnetically. But you have to assume the tree acts as an RF conductor, which is probably true, especially if it is damp and the RF is conducted on the "skin" of the tree. The water on the surface is probably ionized (being acidic or basic) and is a fair conductor, at least better than wood but worse than copper. Then you can take your pick of looking at it like a gamma- matching problem or a small skinny loop. You could probably even do a NEC wire model of the tree using moderately low conductivity wires shaped like a cage for the trunk and single wires for the branches. Sounds like fun!
73, Paul, AA1LL, Mason, NH
http://www.qsl.net/aa1ll
|
| |
|
Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by HAMDUDE on August 20, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
This article is even more ridiculous then the no ground one! Does anyone at Eham actually read this stuff before they post it? Perhaps they post it to sit back and watch the fun it generates. Next thing you know, some idiot will suggest using a piece of PVC pipe as an antenna!!! Oh wait...they already did that...except they filled it with salt water and called it an antenna. Works as well as the tree does.....lousy!
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by N7SWL on October 19, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
...true, true. I'm using a G5RV to co-phase three Ponderosa pines in the backyard. Works great! Hi...
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by S53RA on December 15, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Some years ago, while doing a research, I came across to an article (K.Ikrath, W.Kennebeck, R.T.Hoverter, Trees Preforming as Radio Antennas, IEEE Transactions on Antennas and Propagation, January 1975 ) about trees performing as antennas - the authors summarized that trees outperforms small whips in wet jungle environment...
Of course I soon tested my backyard pine and other trees... :)) with scarce results (except for some success tuning in a half-wave cactus at 144MHz :)) )
Just today I found that IEEE article on the net...
http://www.comsistel.com/HAM%20documents/Trees01141017.pdf
there are also pictures of tests on that page
http://www.comsistel.com/nuova_pagina_2.htm
73, Gregor
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by S53RA on December 21, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And the method used was toroid coupling - the tree was acting as an infinite secondary winding
73, Gregor
|
| |
|
RE: Nature's Antennas...
|
|
|
by KE6TMX on May 21, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
How can I purchase your kit for a tree? I have a huge oak tree next to my house. Thanks, Craig
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
Where Do I Go from Here?
6-Meter Square Copper Dipole
The 'Lazy 7'
Wire Antenna in Trees with Crossbow
Other Antennas Articles
Wire Antenna in Trees with Crossbow
The 'Lazy 7'
Where Do I Go from Here?
|
