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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

No Code Dot Org

Mike Devry (VE4HAM) on August 15, 2004
View comments about this article!

In life, as always has been and in every aspect, mankind from the individual to the masses look for the easy way out. Some say the necessity is the mother of invention; yet, some would agree laziness in the real mother of invention. To avoid the drudgery and toil of the human mind and body, the power of reason and culminated ingenuity of man really did make us a lazy lot for sure. I tend to agree with the latter.

Far back, I remember when I used to listen to Morse and did not have a clue about it. I used to dream of being one of those "operators" rapping on AM on a wooden shortwave set, the Morse just a thumping noise on an electromagnetic speaker. My only true knowledge of Morse was SOS which I incessantly tapped all the time. But wait, I knew that off by heart even if heard somewhere. Only 26 letters and 26 sound patterns. Ah, that must be a piece of cake I thought. Around my neighborhood, we had these old women who spoke 3 to 6 languages from E.Europe -- now how in the world could I not learn such a simplistic language.

I had a brother who was all too interested too in Ham. We make a bet. We would sign up for our examinations without even knowing the code. We had one month to study and learn the code. We made a big joke of it. Hell, we even had transmitters ready, both homebuilt and a couple of nice old tube receivers. We just read the outline of what was needed for theory and dug some basic books out, and started listening to some Farnsworth vinyl record given to us by a guy with a huge assortment of wires in his backyard.

One week of 8 hrs per day. That's all we did for the theory. The last week was approaching. My brother already had his speed to 10 wpm; I was stuck at 8. This was bad. That last week, listening to Morse, W1AW and dreaming Morse was too much. But the second last day, all depressed and down that I would not make it....I turned on the record player. Flip side 15 wpm. To my amazement, I copied the whole side without one mistake. My brother had 13 down pat.

We left the DOC office without flying colors.

What we learned was that there lies in Morse that plateau...that plateau of speed where you believe you will never pass. But magically, always, from all the people I ever knew who learned this, experienced this. For those who think they could never do it, they show a character of giving up. Fortitude and desire grow strong in those who are stuck in binds of any sort. Those who want to prevail, those who want not to fall down let alone be scraped off the ground, those who want to triumph -- they, no matter how little the problem or situation, try 'till win or lose.

Now, about these Morse code dot org people, I think they are really of a mob mentality. All it takes is one to incite a riot, and all the losers come to the forefront. All Orgs need a leader, win or lose and the sheep follow.

I am not against no Morse code, but I love it. In Canada, when we had our first license we couldn't even talk voice. It was CW, all bands, for one year, and it had to be proven by logs and some QSLs. How's that for discipline? I never minded. I and thousands loved it and for many it became a lifetime mode. We must remember Ham is a multi-faceted mode, and many roads. I found sanity in CW and was easy on the pocketbook to boot. Then came RTTY and FAX and ASCII, which I loved that used old oily machines and homebrew interfaces. Then came computers with decoding and transmitting. Yes, I did a lot of building, testing and constructing for that. But never one being over 100 watts or having 37 transceivers and an antenna farm, I was the little peon of ham radio who cared little for pompous types; I stuck to my own world of Ham radio, the licensed hobby the gov't gave me as a privilege to exercise my interests in communications. The rules were the rules.

I accepted ham radio for what it was, a hobby. It was never a "career" of which many made for themselves devoting an entire lifetime and huge sums of money to lose with it. The government could as well as abolish it, for it is a privilege and not or never will be a right. The operators never insisted Morse become a staple of communication, for it just started that way. It had its day I know, but I am one person who is glad I learned it. If one of the no code orgs ever learned it, perhaps they would change their mind a bit.

I remember how enthusiastic to get my new "skill" on the air. The first contact was with a one tube home built 6L6 crystal transmitter. It was to Regina, some 400 miles distant on 40 meters on a quiet summer night. It was a wonderful night I don't forget easy. This CW never let me down. The big guns with the linears and gardens of antennas were never my peers. QSLs piled up and piled up with my measly power and continued with no more than 100 watts. I remember getting shortwave QSLs from Russia, because they had to get QSLs from Hams overseas by listening to a shortwave set just to be eligible for a license. Duly, I always sent them a card. Through all the propagation mayhem, CW made it through, and I am proud to know it.

For the no Morse orgs, you are missing out on a nice mode. I think the no Morse orgs will always be the jealous not having the knowledge to copy a conversation without high power, because they'll need it sometime. SSB is terrible at times, but long after it becomes inaudible, CW QSOs keep on going. Well, mobs do sometimes win and overrule.

They talk of computer Morse, but at best, it's the worst unless you have point-to-point communication. I've tried all that, but the ear, that power of the ear to discern a tone out of the mud and noise cannot be replicated.

What's with the 5 wpm? Somehow I just cannot believe what a stumbling block it could be. It has been said that those with hidden musical ability have a better time with code, but anyone can whistle Mary Had A Little Lamb.

Dump the Morse, hmmmmmmmm....and yet to be a Maritime Operator, you have to know 25 wpm still. The HF silently abiding its time ready for action to cover the last bastion of communication should fail.

Here, I will say one thing for the no Morse code orgs. The do have a point. Certainly they should be allowed some portions of HF to use voice. I only think that fair having passed a comprehensive test on theory and regs. I don't see why not.

It would be my hope the no Morse orgs are not just freeloaders or migrants from the 11 meter channelized band.

It's a new world, and there certainly lies a myriad of electronically and computer gifted minds who can contribute to the "fraternity" at large. I have seen all over the world writing such nice software, rig control programs, new modes and bringing new ideas into play. I somehow think the fight for no Morse code is not all about the death of Ham Radio, but a new beginning. I, in my time, a lowly Ham, feel small to an engineer who can't pass a code test, and yet they can design a rig from scratch. The no Morse orgs do have some good points, but surely I agree let Morse be for as long as it lives, and it will. Personally, I'd hate to see the entire spectrum be a pecking contest of voice of who has the latest Kenwood rig, which about sums it up around now. I fire up my old Cheyenne with a bit of chirp for some fun, and some jerk with a gold plated rig comes on and complains I need repairs. Well, I told him flat out, it was built with chirp, isn't that a nice sound. He split, flipped his dials or whatever. The new age, welcome to the new age of things.

Well, I can only say let the Morse live if only an extra endorsement on a license. Let it live for those who would want at sometime to take a stab at it one day. Let it live heritage and we keep myriad heritages alive. Let it live somehow, but sure, let the no Morse orgs in and see what transpires. If I think back, I would have been just as polite and obedient operator as I am now, even if there was no CW. It's all in the character I guess. There is a world of talented, knowledgeable, highly educated people who can make a difference in the field of Ham communications, and it is my hope, and let it be your hope, that they deserve to be here not only for the Morse, but all the modes open to them to experiment with.

Cut the legal limit to 100 watts worldwide for Hams. Ah, then the ingenuity will come out and the Morse will live again. :) How simple can it be.

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OMG the posts this will generate. Sigh.

I love code, but I don't like the squabbles about it. It would be nice to see the amateur written exams made into a challenge again, and then give the no-code guys some HF spectrum, while requiring reasonable proficiency in code in order to work the code-only portion of each band.

Everyone seems to feel either oppressed or threatened when this subject comes up, and emotions run too deep for reasonable discourse. I hope the hobby can eventually work through this whole issue, accomodate most points of view, and move on.

73,
Dave/al2i
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OO1TRK on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have no desire for CW, it has no meaning or calling for me. I am happy on 2m/6m. To me (and this is "to me") I feel that Code is passe', but I also feel that way about MARS and a few other things that some HAM's are very passionate about. I think that Code should be dropped as a requirement all together. But the knowledge tests should be much harder. Take away the multiple choice. That in its own right would make the tests that much harder. Make the tests 50-questions for Tech, and include much more technical questions as well as more on FCC rules.
I personally think that there should be a spelling part to the tests, after seeing the way some of the posters here have a real challenge spelling simple words.
But I believe dropping the Code portion of the tests would bring more into the Amateur Radio hobby. Increasing the knowledge tests to more questions and more technical questions would do more to benefit the hobby then 5wpm code. I agree with a post on one of the other articles that stated that tech’s should be allowed phone privileges on 10m, I agree with that, it will then get the usage that is needed to move the illegal users off of it.

My 5-cents worth…
73
Ken
 
No Code Dot Org  
by W9GRN on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Time for another beer...
 
No Code Dot Org  
by VE3WGO on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks Mike, for a nicely written article.

Morse Code seems to be reasonably healthy, so far at least. On a good night one can still hear lots of CW across a band that is open, and during CW contests they are as crowded as they ever were.

I keep the faith by remembering this: Ham Radio is not about efficiency, and it is not a backbone of the world's communications infrastructure -- it is simply a hobby (it provides valuable emergency comms on occasion too). We do it mainly for FUN, and arguements about CW being out of date or inefficient simply don't convince me. If we really want efficiency and reliability to get message through, we can more easily use the internet, just like were are using now for this message, or telephone or our public handietalkie (aka cellphone). And yet we still use CW anyway, obviously just for fun.

Someday, somewhere, we hear about a case where CW saved the day, and those stories warm my heart.

I am hopeful that CW will survive for the same reason that Ham Radio will, and that is simply because it is fun.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I pretty much agree with the first three posts (particularly the one that commented; “Time for another Beer.)

This issue is like the IRS…….it just keeps coming back, and there’s no hope that it will be a pleasant conversation!

I would like to comment on the general concept of “Opening up HF to NCTs” or “Granting Limited HF Privileges to NCTs”:………..Many of us just don’t care!

I’m a NCT, and will probably always remain so. I obtained a license because the ARS filled a specific need that I had. I needed VHF/UHF capability, and that’s what I got…….That’s all I wanted. I have never had any interest in the HF bands, and wouldn’t use them if the FCC granted me HF Privileges tomorrow!

So,…….When the mudslinging and name-calling get going on this thread (as I know they will), try to keep in mind that “NCT” is not necessarily synonymous with “Lazy” or “Gimme-something-for-Nothing”……….Many of you have made that mistake in the past.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KI9A on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gee, I have great idea. my pal isn't really too fond of learning the theory.

How about letting him in under a "No Theory" license?

Mark my words, this IS in our future!

73-Chuck KI9A
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K0RFD on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N8ZTY on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again and I wouldn't repeat my old arguments.

For the record, I support the VEC petition. No code test period. However, I am no longer passionate about it.

It is too late.

1. The tens of thousands of Techs who gave up on the hobby will not return even if they are given an instant upgrade to General. As a whole, this group is already too soured by the old-timers.

2. The great potential of youth who want high tech is already lost to other hobbies. No code wouldn't help much here.

3. The only real gain for dropping the test will be administrative and being in line with most other Western nations. (Not much to shout about!)

This hobby is slowly dying. It is probably beyond reviving. So I can no longer get passionate about the no code possibility.

Philip
 
Padawan and Master  
by KA4KOE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hmmmm. Its like everything else in life...I may like strawberry and you may prefer chocolate ice cream, and that's dandy.

Ever try to feed a child something he's convinced is YUCKY?

Let boys be boys, and girls be girls (YEAH!!!!!), CW ops be CW ops, and Foners be Foners. Live and let live. If the newbies want to initiated into the Mysteries of Morse, then they must petition the Mystic Lodge of Morse themselves. Then, we can train the Padawan Initiates ONLY because they are willing.

And, in contrast to what the little green guy with the backyards grammar says, no one is too old to begin the training.

"Listening carefully padawan, and soon proficient in morse you will be.....hmmmmm...hmmmmmm?"
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KD2E on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Recently, I heard the reply "That's a 10-4" on the local linked repeater system. (And not as a joke!).
This confirmed all that I thought would happen with the lifting of the code requirement has begun.
There are many who think that the requirement of an antique mode of communications is destroying the hobby.
I think the requirement is what kept it going into the 21st century.
What is happening now is clear. Just tune around.
 
One L  
by KA4KOE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
HEY ZTY, You're a ONE L "PHILIP" like me!!!!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by VE7ALQ on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I live in an apartment building, and run CW only on HF because of the lesser interference problems associated with Morse Code. Also, my 100 watts and an HF6V vertical demand operating skill and a mode that does not require oodles of power.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2DTW on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW is the heart and soul of amateur radio. Learning code at 5WPM is not difficult.

The idea of a whole generation of hams who cannot decipher a distress signal in code is unsettling, to say the least.

 
No Code Dot Org  
by OBSERVER11 on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
do what ever you want in CANADA and leave the USA out of this.

US hams, do not fall for this trolls bait.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OBSERVER11 on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N8ZTY, sounds to me as if you have regrets for selecting ham radio as a hobby. Have you tried coin collecting, perhaps quilting?
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K1CJS on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, here we go again. People who insist code has no use in a modern world. People who think ham radio will not survive without morse code. People who insist that the elimination of code testing will turn ham radio into CB radio. People who think code is the only mode. People who think code is just one mode of many and shouldn't require special testing.

WHEN WILL IT END?? This is turning out to be a booorrrrring subject--and it will never end. Just look at how long it's taking the FCC to act on petitions from five to ten years ago concerning ham radio and its regs. I figure they'll get around to this subject about 2012!

After all the baloney found floating around on these know-code/no-code threads its a wonder somebody hasn't opened a sandwich shop. Tell you one thing--with just this baloney they'd make a fortune.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I realize this is a bit off topic, but since it came up in a previous post, I’ve got to ask the question: …….Why do some of you have an allergic reaction when you hear a “10-4”??

The “10 Codes” were created years ago to promote clarity and brevity, back when mobile radios weren’t the clear, signal-processing wonders they are now. The Codes are still in use with Police Departments and Civil Defense offices all over the country. Why are they “Bad Operating Practice” simply because the CBers picked up on a few of them?

I learned the NATO Prowords long before I had anything to do with the ARS……And I will confess that when under duress, I will occasionally let slip on the air things like “SAY AGAIN”:………..It’s just old habit!

I also know cops who will occasionally let a “10-4” slip out on the ARS Bands, because that’s the syntax they use all day long……Again, perfectly understandable!

If the operator is operating in a professional and courteous manner, and if the meaning of his (or her) transmission is understood by all, just what the hell is the big deal???

Or is it that some of you have simply run out of things to complain about at home?

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KE6OUD on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Somebody mention beer ???????
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KC0RBX on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Some guys LOVE fishing but don't enjoy fly fishing. Certainly there exist purist anglers who've mastered the art of tying and casting flys who believe the rivers should only be open to them. I know, I've met them.
The fish and wildlife agencies have come up with a solution to the problem. The agencies designate catch and release stretches of rivers as well as stretches of river which are flys and lures only. I would have to say that I believe the code portions of the bands should be kept open only to those who have proven proficiency sending and receiving code. If you don't enjoy fishing for cw contacts, don't go there. I also believe that if a person has no interest in fishing for cw contacts, they should not be prohibited from using portions of the band which allow them to fish for other types of contacts, provided they have the license which shows they've proven they have the knowledge to operate in those stretches of the band. If memory serves me, I can't think of anyone who has taken a "phone test" to get to use the phone portions of the bands. Make the written portion longer and more difficult. Increase the number and difficulty of technical questions to get into those bands. You won't have the dreaded "CBer" infiltrating and messing up your river for you because they don't care about the service and hobby enough to spend the time to learn what SHOULD be required TECHNICALLY to get a license. I just have one question. If you code lovers out there love code so much, why are you worried about the phone portions of the bands? Oh, and change that beer and coffee stained wife beater undershirt the next time you manage to crawl out of your shack to go to a hamfest. Look sharp, be sharp, I always say. NOW, go get that next beer!

kc0rbx
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K2WH on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I saw the headline and just shook my head. You know I was a Know code person up to this point, but I am just worn down by the constant bickering about his issue - an issue that will never be solved.

Kill the code now and end this crap.

K2WH
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KE6PKJ on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'll have a Canadian beer.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I left an 'm' out of "accommodate", and the next post said something about a spelling requirement. LOL!

In my yewth, I wus a speling champian. At leest I knos moorse koad.

Dave/al2i
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KB2YWZ on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
What do you have against Kenwood? I have found that it sends code as well as voice wery well.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AG4RQ on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm tired of rehashing the same old crap time and time again. By now, everybody knows how I feel about this issue. I'll join those who want beer. Bartender, get me an ice cold Beck's.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If you can get it, Watney's Stout is the King of Beers.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N4QA on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Diet Root Beer for me, thanks.
With everything that's coming out of Washington and Newington these days, I'm not sure that anybody will be able to recognize the amateur bands(hf in particular) after a few more years have passed.
Maybe it's the end. Maybe it's a new beginning.
I'll admit that my personal position on the knowcode/no code issue has softened a great deal, having done my share of bickering over it.
Ok, then, let's move forward...whatever that means...
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA1RNE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It's incredible that everyone is so afraid of change, especially when it's justified. There are 2 distinct problems with the CW question that lead to a lot of the debate and confusion that is ongoing today.

One way to sort through the confusion is to go through a logical justification process. Simply compare CW's beginnings in ham radio and it's later use between the 1920's and 50's vs. today's usage and needs.

CW started in the early days of the telegraph; no big news here. It evolved to wireless communications. In a simple summary, first via spark transmitters by making poorly controlled off/on electromagnetic radiation, then with more controlled and stable Continuous Wave transmission. This was state of the art for its time, especially on oceanliners and the military durig World WarI, with radiotelephone introduced towards the end of the war.

CW formed the backbone of military communications as it was much more reliable compared to AM or FM. The equipment was easier to transport in terms of size and weight(no AM modulator) and less costly to produce.

Hams contributed to this evolution and adopted CW for the most of the same reasons, except size and weight didn't really matter - but reliable communication certainly was #1 on the priority list.

So early on, it made perfect sense to require hams to acquire a level of CW proficiency - although you were not required to maintain it, which is problem #1 - an ongoing 90 year old contradiction of philosophy.

For the last 50 years, SSB, FM, AM, SSTV and digital/packet modes have been the modes of choice for most communications. With the exception of AM and SSTV, in times of emergency, these modes will be used >90% of the time. (Cellular phones are also being used when working.)

Interesting that if CW was required during an emergency and ANY recently licensed operator needed to use it, chances are he/she would not provide effective emergency communications at 5 words per minute code speed.

So that leaves recreational use. CW is preferred by many hams as a fun way to communicate. It's a challenging skill that not everyone can master and also adds a hint of "the old days" of ham radio. It's analogous to riding around in an antique car on a Sunday afternoon; it's fun, lots of people do it and there's obviously nothing wrong with that.

Now look at the different license classes; herein lies problem #2 of the justification;

The only real difference between the Technician and General class examination is twice the amount of test questions and a 5 WPM code test. Otherwise, the operator has about the same FCC qualifications.

Interesting to note that in order to pass the General, you were required to pass a 13 WPM code test; the Extra required a 20 WPM test, putting CW in the “useful” realm for emergency communications.

At best, the current licensing structure is convoluted and contradictory. Who came up with this nonsense?

Given the above facts, CW cannot be justified as a license requirement nor as a reason to restrict operation of other modes in all the lower frequency sections of our bands.

We waste a heck of a lot of time debating this and meanwhile everyone is getting older. When are we going to get with the program and allow a sensible progression of the service and at the same time inject some additional versatility into the hobby???
 
Morse Code is an anachronism  
by HFHAM2 on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, Morse Code is an anachronism (look it up), however, so is ham radio!

So where's the problem in having an anachronistic entrance exam for an anachronistic hobby?

Amateur Radio will never again be at the leading edge of communications technology, so just enjoy it for what it is (and was) and let those who enjoy morse code, do so unmolested.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WN3VAW on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
*yawn*

HWGA

But speaking of a particular cold frosty beverage:

Some of you believe the beer mug is half empty.
Some of you believe it's half full.
I believe it's time for another beer.

73
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KG5JJ on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Code? What-a-mode! When grandkids come-over, they are duly unimpressed with "phone" operation (frankly, I am too), somewhat less unimpressed with digital modes. Work through the ISS on packet? Still, no cigar. Their eyes and expressions light-up when working CW, though. Must be similar to the shock-and-awe of using a Cap'n Crunch Secret Decoder Ring!

So...old-timers are ruining the hobby for everybody? Not from where I sit. An old timer got me into the hobby, as did the old-timer who got my elmer into the hobby. All three of us were VEs. Collectively, we gave hundreds of people the chance to become amateur radio operators.

The hobby is not dying, the opposite is true. Doomsday prophets have been echoing their sacred mantra since...well...the word "prophet" was used.

What is dying is respect. Respect is not demanded, it is earned. I respect those who blazed trails in amateur radio before me, enough to learn and pass all the amateur exams (including 20 wpm morse) to get an extra-class license. I didn't wimper about code getting in-the-way of what was desirable to me. Whatever the exam requirements were then, or now, or in the future, matters not. What does matter is the lack of mutual respect between generations of amateur radio operators. Ever wonder why? This isn't rocket science...

73 KG5JJ (Mike)
 
No Code Dot Org  
by G3VGR on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It must be lonely living under that bridge...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KG5JJ: Now that my daughter knows code, her friends want to learn it also. It is exactly as you said.

Doing it on a computer would be a colossal bore to all of them. They do everything on a computer already. It is blasé. I am much more excited about doing things on computers than they are. To them, computers are just appliances that they know how to use quite well, but which do not have the same fascination for my youngest daughter's cohort that they did for my oldest son's cohort. My youngest is 12 and my oldest is 1 decade older.

Morse code and sending messages in Morse code without an Internet connection is the ultimate of cool... They don't even think of it as retro-cool, but rather, uber-cool. Look Ma! No IP!!!

73
Dave/al2i
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WB2GOF on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Time marches on, gentlemen. Either you roll with the punches and move on, or you risk becoming extinct. If the Feds wanna remove the CW requirement to become a Ham, fine with me. I learned it while it was still required, so I've done the right thing. Just hope that done the road, there will still be some "requirements" for entry into the worlds of Amateur Radio. Or will a license be found in a box of Cracker Jack?
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by DUALGATEMOSFET on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Everybody repeat after me:
"CW is Ham Radio. Ham Radio is CW"
I'll drink to that. Time for a brewsky.

73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N6AJR on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
HWGA and again.. If you like code , use it, if you don't like code, don't use it. you will reap what you sew.. and what does this have to do with Fan Dipoles...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WB2WIK on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I give up.

After 9,351 discussions on this very topic, I've decided that anyone who doesn't like and hasn't mastered the code should be immediately executed.

That's that.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by DUALGATEMOSFET on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW is for fan dipoles. Fan dipoles are for CW.

73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N3EVL on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After 9,351 discussions on this very topic, I've (also) decided that it's time for a beer.

Pete/n3evl

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by W6TH on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

VE4HAM

Have it the Canadian way, but leave the U.S to their own thinking. Get lost you traitor.

Reminds me of a chap telling me and crying in his beer and mine, loving his wife so dearly and two weeks later divorced her.

.:
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AC9TS on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"Mmmmmmmm Beerrrrrr" - H. Simpson

I was a 13 WPM general many moons ago and did in fact spend my first year as a ham doing nothing but code as a novice. Once I got the general, to be honest, I didn't do CW at all.

A year ago, I got back into the hobby and am an "Extra-lite", as we've been called. Now, my mic is not even plugged into the radio. I use CW and PSK only.

The point of this?? When I had to do CW to move on, I didn't want to have anything to do with it once I got there. Now that CW isn't quite the chore it was, I can't get enough. Basically, if you make somebody work at something, they may just do it to get it done then never go back to it. If it's just a small or non-existant part, they may flock to it as some new frontier.

Tom - AC9TS
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NJ0E on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
kc0rbx
------

> If you code lovers out there love code so much,
> why are you worried about the phone portions of
> the bands?

because as the phone bands fill up with those 2500
hz wide ssb signals, they will begin salivating over
the cw and data portions of the bands to alleviate
the congestion.

indeed, this is already happening.

73
scott nj0e
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WA1RNE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

-... . . .-. .- -. -.. -.-. -.. -.. --- -. - -- .. -.-

--... ...--

.- .-. WA1RNE


 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KL7IPV on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
YAWN....shine a little dark on me.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by RADIO123US on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KC0RBX said "If you code lovers out there love code so much, why are you worried about the phone portions of the bands?"

According to the FCC rules, I can operate CW in the "phone band"....and I actually hear some DXers
doing that when the conditions get rough on SSB...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K0RFD on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KC0RBX wrote::

>Certainly there exist purist anglers who've mastered
>the art of tying and casting flys who believe the
>rivers should only be open to them. I know, I've met
>them.

I don't know where you're going with this analogy, and after reading your entire post, I STILL don't know.

I flyfish and tie my own flies. Over the last 45 years, I have also spent many, many hours spin fishing and bait fishing, as various situations presented themselves. I practice catch-and-release not because I am some kind of bleeding heart, but because 1) I think everybody should have the pleasure of catching a nice fish, and if I can return one to the water undamaged, well, then you might be able to catch him too; and 2) having grown up near the ocean, I don't like the taste of trout compared to saltwater fish. Try to find a "purist" conspiracy there. It ain't gonna happen.

Why do I flyfish? Easy. Because I catch more fish that way. After 45 years of fishing every which way, it's no more complicated than that. And I suppose that's the right place to go with the CW analogy. Although it's a little more work, it works a lot better.

And why do I tie my own? Well, let's stretch your ham radio analogy a little farther to homebrewing. It's because it feels good to succeed with something I made myself.

And I do support the idea that some water should be "take your limit" and other water should be "catch and release". Not because I want my own water, but because of the simple reality that Whirling Disease has decimated many areas where fish used to reproduce naturally, and now you'll never catch a nice native unless somebody else who caught him before you has caught him and let him go. Like bandplans, it helps the hobby be fun for EVERYBODY.

So don't go calling me or any other flyfisherman a "purist" until you've met him. You don't know beans about me or the people I fish with. I fish with nymphs, dries, eggs, midges, whatever works that day. I tie with synthetics. My rods are graphite, not bamboo. My flyline is plastic, not silk. That's NOT being a purist. But it is being a flyfisher just the same.

Some of us just like to catch fish. I think hams are the same way. You can feel however you want, but don't go generalizing about the rest of us, because we are NOT all the same. We all do what we enjoy. Some of us just enjoy different things than you do.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by W3DCG on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"CW is the heart and soul of Ham radio..."

Well put. And 5 wpm is not that difficult. 5 wpm is so fast, it couldn't possibly get any easier, except to be stricken completely.

If this is the precedence the majority of Amateur radio operators think they want, then I believe many will someday be sorry they did. Like many, extreme Liberals, back in the 60s and 70s, today, looking back, will likely admit, they rather their children be a bit more conservative.

If the reasoning behind dropping code is because it is a mode, and some may not find interest in that mode, then it can also be reasoned, so is any and all space communications. So, stricken all questions related to satellite communication. Many hams likely have no interest, or think they lack the resource to have interest, or feel the participation is small enough, it does not warrant the investment.

Next, stricken all questions related to digital modes. Some may actually only ever be interested in CW. In many CW QSOs I hear people saying they've been only CW for years and years, and either threw away their mics, or it would take them a while to find it, and they'd have to consult the rig manual to get set up for SSB. So, Actually, stricken all questions related to any specific mode, period.

Finally, the reasoning will end at a need to test to be sure people are at least tested to supposedly be competent in safely installing and operating a station, so as to not cause harm to self or others.

If the reasoning for dropping 5wpm as a requirement prevails, one could argue and extrapolate, there being no real reason to test for more.
Who cares actually, about the more complicated aspects of theory. No one is going to likely repair say, an IC 7800 or even a TS 480, themselves. That would be like trying to repair your year 2000 or above late model motor vehicle when the Service light comes on, yourself. Without the diagnostic computer from the manufacturer, it likely is a waste of time, with a higher than comfortable probability of causing more harm than good.

The end result, could well be, ham radio for all who wish to pay a fee, because the test will have become one for all privilege, and something anyone, with only a slight interest, can obtain.

Every single weakening or lessening of standards, lessens the value of an Amateur radio license. The value of anything, really. The only things truly of value in this world, almost always require WORK. The most basic laws of physics do apply here.

What is the worth of a license that anyone with little study and insignificant commitment, can acquire.

5 wpm should not be the excuse for not obtaining admission to HF phone or whatever a person thinks they want to do with HF.

It appears to me, most real world action is in spectrum most akin to where No Code amateurs have full, complete, total access. VHF and beyond. Not counting AM broadcasting. Cell phones, high speed wireless internet transmission, satellite transmissions, FM/TV broadcasting, commercial 2-way radio, RADAR, etc-- where CW truly is the archaic, dinosaur of a mode, that it is.

However, on HF- CW is not merely a mode, it is dynamic art, masquerading as a communications mode.

I too, learned CW and devoted time to learning it, because I wanted more access to DX back in 1980, more so than what could be had in the Novice bands. Ultimately, what I thought I wanted was access to world wide point to point voice communication.

En route, because of prerequisites, I was enabled to hear, see, and comprehend "the heart and soul of Amateur radio."

The heart of ham radio truly does beat to the cadence and rhythm, of Morse Code.

 
Beer Time  
by KA4KOE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N3EVL

I know a nice pub on River Street in Savannah Georgia.
I'm buying the first round.
 
RE: Beer Time  
by KA4KOE on August 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"I give up.

After 9,351 discussions on this very topic, I've decided that anyone who doesn't like and hasn't mastered the code should be immediately executed.

That's that.

WB2WIK/6"

-----That means most of the population....Would've made the Nazi's proud too!!!! Better hurry and get the wife and two yunguns on board learning that morse FAST!! Imagine that..Morse Proficiency Death Squads. Pass a 5 WPM or get a 9mm Baretta slub behind the left ear.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KC0RBX on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
k0rfd,

It was a simple analogy. Maybe you are a purist if I struck your cord that hard. My point is this: SOME people think the WHOLE THING belongs to THEM because they do things a certain way. They think ONLY those who do things their way should be allowed to fish/ham where they do. You must read the whole thing to get the entire point. It seems you stopped reading after you assumed someone generalized you as a purist. Doggone, you didn't even mention the beer and coffee stained undershirt poke generalization, which truley was a generalization meant to be good old fasioned rib poking for fun. Maybe that's what got ya. Good for you if you use other forms of bait for fishing. I'm talking about the yuppies who started fly fishing after "that @$#%^ movie" called a River Runs Through it and are now trying to dictate to everybody else what to do with the rivers. Happy fishing.

KC0RBX
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KD5DFM on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gee, I have great idea. my pal isn't really too fond of learning the theory.

How about letting him in under a "No Theory" license?

hey i got a friend who is tone deaf , lol ;-) , is there sucha thing , my other friend who couldnt play the gutar used the same excuse , problum is the ham one just got his general , cant do a lick of code and as far as i know can hear perfectly . yet i know others who really are hard of hearing and the thing that gets me the most is when others use a disabilty to get accomidated when they dont have a disabilty . gro tod edoc no
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AB0N on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Reading this made me think how much I have been missing. The code was never easy for me. I have not had a CW QSO in almost 20 years. A little rusty but what the heck. I think I will give it another try. The truth is everyone has a favorite mode. CW may well be the only mode that gets through when things are tough. What if... through a natural disaster we were suddenly technologically wiped out. I could think of many ways this could occur. Think of it. No power, no TV, maybe a few low power FEMA stations. Battery power. The only mode that makes any sense then is a CW station. What if all the infrastructure collapses? It would certainly be interesting. Kind of sobering and a bit depressing to be sure. My point is that we need to keep all of our tricks in the bag. You just never know when you'll need it. Dave AB0N
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KD5DFM on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This hobby is slowly dying. It is probably beyond reviving

oh come on Philip . do you believe this hype , there are more hams today than there have ever been , another arrl scare tactic to get more members ;-) free ham and ham free . the arrl wants you to pay to get on the air . and they want you to pay them mark my words .
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AE6IP on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>> This hobby is slowly dying. It is probably beyond
>> reviving

> oh come on Philip . do you believe this hype , there
> are more hams today than there have ever been ,
> another arrl scare tactic to get more members ;-)
> free ham and ham free . the arrl wants you to pay to
> get on the air . and they want you to pay them mark
> my words .

Actually, if you believe Joe Speroni, AH0A, who has been tracking ham licenses for a while, there are around one million fewer hams than there were ten years ago. Joe bases his numbers on Japanese licensing information -- Japan having been, until recently, the single largest ham community in the world, accounting for more than half of the world's hams.

Also, extrapolating from Speroni's numbers, it is not unreasonable to believe that half or more of all licensed US hams are inactive.

On the other hand, yes, there are more US hams *licensesd* than at any previous time, *but* the average age of the US ham population is going up at a faster rate than the average age of the US population at large *and* at a faster rate than the life expectancy is going up in the US.

If this last doesn't change for the better, in just over 20 years, the US ham population will be half of what it is now, simply due to attrition.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by X-WB1AUW on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Nice concise prose.

PLEASE.
NO MORE:
no-code threads!
I hate contests and contesters
I hate DXers
I hate DX nets
I hate non-DX nets
I hate non Rag-Chewers
I hate 75 meters
I hate The League for what they did in the last century; they don’t do what I want every time.
CW in my SSB sub-band
SSB in my CW only sub-band
People tuning up on the air
Using Q codes on phone
We should incorporate CB culture into ham radio culture
Ham radio is a service, not a hobby
Illegal use of ham radios and amps in CB; on eBay

Have FUN
Bob
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KB8RMN on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Why can't we all get along?

Seriously now, I'll admit to being a no-code tech, for whatever that is or is not worth, realizing that with half of you my credibility just went down the tubes. In an attempt to recover that credibility, suffice it to say that I'm well educated in several disciplines, and if you will please take my word for it, the word "lazy" has never entered into any descriptions of me by my peers.

Truthfully, I would love to have some HF privileges. Also, I'll freely admit that if code stays on as a requirement, I'll more than likely pass the worthless 5-wpm code test. I say worthless because I can't imagine any experienced operator would want to chat along at 5-wpm on HF, and also because as aforementioned in this string, it is simply too slow to provide any effective form of emergency communication. My belief that the code requirement is outdated has nothing to do with my desire to pass or not pass a code test - it currently is simply a matter of time management with law school to deal with - but rather as result of my own personal belief that if we are to still take Amateur Radio as a service and not simply a hobby, then the license requirements and regulations should reflect the current needs of service organizations with which we can interact. If amateur radio is to become just a hobby, then this entire debate is moot, for as long as the operations of one operator do not cause harmful interference to the operations of another, it seems logical and consistent with U.S. regulatory practice to simply require a minimal test that ensures regulatory and theoretical competence.

First of all we need to define what types of services we can viably provide. Obviously, working with local service organizations on 2 meters, 70 centimeters, and even 6 meters, in public service events and providing temporary emergency communications for non-profit organizations such as the red cross are all easily fulfillable under the current licensing system. However, if amateur radio is called upon to provide services on a larger scale, such as hurricane weather tracking and long range coordination of relief efforts, then I must question any set of rules that limit the ability of a service to carry out its goals. Of course, under FCC part 97, all licensed amateurs may transmit as necessary on any band in case of a bona-fide life and death emergency, but if those amateurs do not normally operate on those bands, they are not likely to own equipment capable of doing so. Of course, CW has long been a staple of service, but I propose with a higher density of operators trained in traffic handling (another issue entirely) it may be superfluous and actually slower than voice communication. Additionally, modern digital modes are capable of longer distance, and more reliable communications in an emergency. Also, I have learned that many U.S. navy and coastguard vessels are no longer equipped, and future vessels will not be equipped, to transmit and receive CW, now favoring digital modes and improving telephony technology in the event of satellite or short range communications failure. I put forth that the recent and documentable overall national decline of the visibility of the amateur service is partially a result of the service's inability to meet new communications standards, be it because of too few operators, or incorrect equipment operating outdated modes, or a combination of both. Removing the code requirement may help to solve these problems, if it is not already too late.

Another issue here is of course the enjoyment of currently licensed amateur radio operators. To you I say this; you will not lose your privilege of operating CW as you wish, and if that time does come, it is far in the future - CW is not dead yet. If you wish it to not die, then it should lie with you to find a way to interest already licensed amateurs in it for the benefits of longer range propagation and "old-feel" that are so claimed, and provable, in order to continue its existence. If it comes to be that the majority of the community decides that CW is outdated and undesirable, then should not the majority rule? Of course, the converse of this is true as well. If you are really worried about inexperienced operators improperly operating, perhaps an affirmative action to educate or mentor them would be more productive than continuing this tired debate. Agreeably, the technician test is perhaps now too easy, but that could be fixed as a provision for removing code. Indeed, I have found that I know basically everything on the general class written exam, and I was licensed as a technician in 1993, when there were still 2 elements for that license.

Also remember, there are still some code-only bands and portions thereof, and if they stay that way for a while, you will still have some time before they are re-allocated, which I grant you would probably happen in a decade or two.

If code stays, I'll still be getting my general class next summer, so please, when reviewing the above, do so with the understanding that I am not suggesting removing the code as a route to easy HF (I am doing quite well on 6 meters anyway), but rather as a possible route which amateur radio can take to update itself to modern times.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OZ8AGB on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In January Denmark dropped the Morse Code requirement for the HF ticket(s) and I got my license at that time. I must says that I'm happy about that because my interest is 95% HF and I could get on air the day I got my callsign.

BUT I'm working on learning the code now. I know I'm missing out a lot of good DXing on CW and I feel a bit like "cheating" when I sit at my PC working PSK31 and RTTY. I feel a challenge in "working the world with just my radio and an antenna (and even on battery power)".

There is plenty of room on the bands for everyone and every mode. If I don't like to hear kW stations shouting their last two letters in a pileup or dont' want to hear CW in my speaker, I tune to another band. No problem.

Vy 73
de
Michael
OZ8AGB
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AE1X on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I take the position that it does not matter. Whatever the qualifications that the licensing authority sets is fine with me. CW is just another mode it is not sacred. I use it because I love it. I would hope that others can share my love for this fundamental mode, but let's face it. There is far more interest in operating phone.

The biggest issue for me is having active amateurs using our allocations to perserve them for the future. Numbers are important. The main issue besides the preservation issue is having active people all over that can provide contacts. Achievement awards and contests can not be won without operators willing to provide the contacts and the multipliers. What fun is it to listen to dead air?

I probably will get flamed for my position on this issue, but so be it. I'm sorry that there is so much hatred in our hobby aimed at the changes in the management of the ether. We should be adapting to the changes and working to elmer all the new people that come into the hobby not be littling them. For amateur radio to flurish, we need to work together.

Ken
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KG4PVX on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Mike,

Although I don’t agree with your depiction of the NoCode people it is still a nice article.
I know several members of NoCode international that had a problem with the requirement not with CW. Is it fair to limit access to a band because you don’t know a modulation form?
What if access to 70cm is limited to Hams that can do packet radio or access to 23cm (1.2 GHz) is limited to Hams that know how to setup an ATV fast scan station?
There used to be a legitimate need for Hams to be able to copy CW but now it is only used to keep people away from HF.

I like the last line of your comment. Sometimes it is nice to pack some punch but you learn how to operate correctly using only moderate power.

Sjaak, W4RIS, ex-KG4PVX ex-PA3GVR

http://k4fau.org
 
No Code Dot Org  
by GM0ONX on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Always thought of the USA and Canada as being technologically advanced countries that embraced the future, but it would seem you still have your CW Luddites ruling the roost over amateur radio. I’ve never understood the ability to have a musical ear capable of reading a 19th century code gives you gift of common sense whilst working HF or the technical ability to run high power.

I passed the code thirteen years ago (at a mere 12WPM rather than 13WPM) but would never ask anyone without an interest in CW to endure this process. The CW Luddits helped rob me of 10 Year of HF operation. Shame on you all for excluding others just because the have no love for a 19th century mode of operation.

Len GM0ONX
 
No Code Dot Org  
by K0RGR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just hope FCC does something about this before it degenerates into a shooting war. I believe their announced timetable for dealing with WARC changes was 4th quarter this year, so I suspect there'll be a change announced on New Year's Eve, unless they're hoping we'll kill each other off and stop protesting their BPL Nirvana.

Actually, I'd really like to see what happens in Canada. So far, I don't hear a flood of English CBers on the HF bands, and they've had their Foundation licenses for a long time now. I think they've experienced some growth, but how real that is cannot be determined, just as the inflation in our license stats does not indicate an increase in active hams on the air.

 
No Code Dot Org  
by N1OU on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Much of our constant "argument" as hams, about the necessity for code is misplaced energy. Some love it, some don't. Some love QRP, some don't. Some experiment, some don't. What we have in common is a love for this "magic" we call hamming--whatever aspect of it turns us on.

The fact is that the code is going away as a mandatory part of ham radio. Let's replace that requirement with one for more knowledge of proper operating and courtesy. Then, we will have gained something.

Thanks & 73

Gordon, N1OU
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA1RNE on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Two longstanding issues concerning CW will continue to be debated relentlessly unless someone has the nerve to request a written justification of the current licensing structure and band plan from the ARRL.

When faced with justifying CW as a licensing requirement, CW proponents usually choose one of more of the following responses:

"It's always been this way"
"Your not a ham unless you know CW"
"Phone is boring anyway"
"CW is more of a challenge than phone".

With answers like these, it really makes you wonder just how honest proponents are being.

CW will not vanish or be banned from use just because it's no longer a requirement to obtain a license.

Instead, it will simply be up to the operator to decide whether to use CW or not.

Meanwhile, passing the Extra Class license will be strictly dependent on the next level of KNOWLEDGE you possess; your ability to grasp more advanced radio and electronics principles and advanced station operation abilities. (The transition from Tech to General is similar. Personally, I think 2 license classes make more sense - General and Extra considering that the General requires passing only 1 additional theory element.)

Considering how things have changed during the last 50 years isn't this the type of approach most people prefer???
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K4JSR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I cannot afford enough beer to even get slightly
interested in this thread.
However, Mr. Katz, WIK/6, if you execute my wife and 4 sons because they don't and won't learn code (No
interest in ham radio, except for wife.)I will be
forced to chase you down, incapacitate you and then
bore you to death by repeating all of my old jokes and my life's story. Trust me sir, that would be a
cruel fate for you indeed! (I am a mean assed drunk!)
I have bored more people than OPEC has bored oil wells! If you do not modify your threat of execution
at this very moment you had better send out invitations to your impending Bore-Mitzvah!
Oh, I forgot the mandatory viewing ("A Clock Work
Orange" style) of nude pictures of Janet Reno!
Nobody is tough enough to stand up to that kind of abuse!

73, Cal K4JSR
Didah, Ga.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by W5LSD on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The dumber it gets...the faster it will get
even dumber. Like thermal runaway ...
it's dumbdown runaway.

Not much left to be proud of hugh ?
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KC8VWM on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>> Always thought of the USA and Canada as being technologically advanced countries that embraced the future,<<

...Bet ya a Molson Canadian that Canada will drop the code requirement before the U.S. does.

Charles - KC8VWM
 
No Code Dot Org  
by N8QGC on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Yikes,

How about that Beer. Molson Ice sounds about right. Actually I think that were headed into Rum Teritorry!

Here's my take. Code/No-code who cares! I came into the hobby during the most intense time of the code/no-code debate here in Michigan. October 1991! I was issued N8QGC and have been ever since. I was a no-code tech or as they called us cordless techs, techlites, useless etc..,

I did satellite and a bunch of things above 30Mhz. I had a blast. When the requirement for code was dropped to 5 Wpm for all classes I jumped in and learned the code and then upgraded to General and finally Extra.

Here's my point, people do what people do. Had the 5 wpm requirement not been put in place I'd still be a no code tech. I did the upgrades because 5 wpm was not a impassable barrier to me. I never imagined using CW other then just to pass the 5 wpm. That was in September 2002.

Today I'm good at almost 20 wpm. I have almost as many CW entries in my log as SSB. And to the Danish ham I say your right. Some of the rarest DX I've worked has been on CW. I have 200 countries mixed for what it's worth. CW has been invaluable to me for that.

CW however, does not make me a better person, maybe a better operator but certainly not a better person. If the CW requirement is dropped all the way maybe that will be the incentive that some people need to get in to the hobby and start doing CW or whatever. I'm open to that, the hobby is not dying just listen to 40 meters on any night. I just hope that they will consider those of us hams that do like CW and perserve some spectrum for us. I realize that a lot of the novice sub bands go unused most of the time but I'd hate to loose the feeling that I get everytime I slow down to 5 wpm and call CQ around 7104.00 and get a new ham trying gain expirence in the mode, or when I answer a CQ for that matter. Those QSO's take forever but they are just as special to me as putting a rare one in the log. I hope that they will keep a certain amount of those sub bands in place.

I'm more concerned about the knuckle heads on 20 meters that are running 4 to 5 Khz wide SSB to be honest. Some of those guys are 20 wpm extras and apparently aren't technically ept enough to run their stations with good engineering practices so the argument that "CB'ers will flood the bands" doesn't hold much water with me. I think that once this is settled life will go on no matter what the FCC rules.

Time for that beer!

Let's all get along, life's to short not to.

73 de John N8QGC
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WB2WIK on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Cal, you've shocked me into retracting my previous statement.

Now, where's that bottle opener? (Real beer doesn't come in cans...)

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K3ESE on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Cal, are you a mean assed drunk, a mean-assed drunk, or just an assed drunk? I just assed that for general knowledge porpoises...

This wouldn't be one a those code/no-code threads, would it? My, I hope not...

LL
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NJ0E on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WA1RNE
------

> When faced with justifying CW as a licensing
> requirement, CW proponents usually choose one
> of more of the following responses:

> "It's always been this way"
> "Your not a ham unless you know CW"
> "Phone is boring anyway"
> "CW is more of a challenge than phone".

funny ... i read the fists cw organizations'
petition to the fcc on license restructuring,
and it didn't mention any of the reasons that
you listed.

see:
----

http://www.fists.org/FIST_FCC_Petition_8-30-303.pdf

73
scott nj0e
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
ahhhhhh BEER...........The mother of us all! famous quote from radio personality/ham SK
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WA1RNE on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Fists.org?????? Never heard of them....Any relation to putupyourdukes.org??

Seriously, I was only quoting responses from eHam, not every Tom, Dick and Harry web site, of which there could be hundreds, all with different agendas and opinions.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by RADIO123US on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
W3DCG said "The heart of ham radio truly does beat to the cadence and rhythm, of Morse Code."

Very well said....most of the ANTI-code folks miss this point completely. They are so busy screaming on how unfair they think it is that this SIMPLE rhythm can't even be heard anymore. How sad...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WA4DOU on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
After hearing so much anti cw sentiment until I was tired of it, I lost any last vestiges of desire I had for phone operation.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AK2B on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AC9TS

I think it goes - "Mmmmmmmm Beerrrrrr, the cause of and the solution to, all the worlds problems" - H. Simpson
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AC0H on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<"After hearing so much anti cw sentiment until I was tired of it, I lost any last vestiges of desire I had for phone operation.">>

Ditto.

CW......those that can do...........those that can't make fun of it like some whiney little 3rd grader.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K4JSR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Steve, I gratefully accept your capitulation. I don't
think I could drink enough beer to withstand seeing
nude photos of Janet Reno myself! :0 I am glad that
at least one of us has some decency left! WHEW!
Now on to Lloyd. Steve, what do you think about a
ham who would opt for a vanity call K3ESE, just so he
could have an excuse to send "dit didit dit"?
Lloyd, I am a mean assed sober, too! Especially when the 'roids are visiting! ;D
Life is too short to be nice. However, I am a happy dude because happy people don't get sick as often as unhappy people. Of course that little fact just proves that it is the surly bird that gets the germ!
Okay Lloyd, is that one as bad as my George Washington
being the first radio ham in history story?
Also you "No-Code" types should remember that at least we "Know Code" types have at least one more use
for our fists than you do!!!

73, Cal K4JSR An equal opportunity antagonist.
Rabble Rouse, Georgia

PS. I think that whoever started this thread should
at least buy the first round. Belly up to the
bar folks. You newbies come along, too.
You need to learn what real hams do with 807's!
Half the fun is learning! ;)
Philip, KOE, you bring the barbecue!
This will show the newer folks what real ham-
fests were like! Emphasis on the "fest" and
not the commercial aspects.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by GHOSTRIDERHF on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Wow -- almost a whole week without a Code / No code thread ---

Let me see -- so the bottom line is allot of people will write allot of stuff that no one will read...

hhhmmm -- think I will get another beer and watch the Olympic Badminton competition -- seems more interesting then this dumb ass thread....

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K4JSR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
And by the way, I make Homer Simpson sound like a girlie-boy when it comes to emoting over BEER!

This is the only draught that I support!

If any no-coders out there are real men, accept this
challenge: From the time the beer guzzling starts to
whenever, the first no-coder to go the bathroom MUST
learn the code before sobering up! Any takers?

73, Cal K4JSR
Quaff, Ga.

PS. It is not whether you win or lose that is important. It is that you play the game!
 
RE: GHOSTRIDERHF  
by K4JSR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Now GRHF, don't go getting your ecto-plasm in a wad!
I was trying to promote a ham gathering that would be
fun. Good barbecue, gallons of beer, silly contests
that make no sense to anyone sober, and good cheer!
Sort what hamfests were like when I was younger.
Now get away from that Olympic Badminton and watch a real man's sport, Power belching, Break Belching,
and WWE's rasslers vs Nascar's Trucks at full speed.
Noise, blood and guts everywhere... Real Man's sport!

73, Cal K4JSR
Outgas, Ga.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Drink steak and eat beer!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by WB8JKR on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again.......

Hell, forced busing didn't work either.

 
You Frighten Me Cal  
by KA4KOE on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Eyewitness account of an encounter with Count Cal-

Flashback, Early June 2004:

Mr. and Mrs. Philip A. Neidlinger attend a trade show in Atlanta, Georgia, under the auspices of the ICIA (not the much vaunted "International Communications Industries Association_, but the "I Can Irritate Anyone")group, or simply the Infocomm Show.

Communications were established on 146.52 simplex as Cal neared the trade show site. His approach was presaged by an acute irritation of the sinus passages, as I would soon find out that Cal was in prime Hamfest Condition....a heaving mass of beer drenched blubber, and let me tell you, Infocomm is a big fest for the rich.

After viewing a projection display worth 3/4 of a million bucks, and driving out the faint of heart in that small space behind the display to oggle at the behemoth projectors, in prime Auschwitz fashion (Zyklon B has nothing on Cal in an enclosed space), the four of us (me, El Stinko, and our two brides), ventured to Ruth's Chris to consume some high density protein.

I don't know what disgusted me more. Was it the stench, bad jokes from Mr. Cal, or merely the sight of him devouring a prime piece of USDA choice in a manner reminiscent of a starved wolverine let loose in a meat packing factory?

What a GUY!!!!! What a PAL!!!!!

Yeah!!! Gimme another Guinness.

Feeeeeleeeeeeep
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KC0NVI on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again...

Why is it that if there is no article on the subject, someone has to ignite the logs and get the fire going again... Hell, just hang tight everyone will have an answer soon enough.

Then, when the answer comes from the powers that be, then there will be either a lot of cheap gear on ebay or a lot of gloating, one or the other.

Personally, it matters not. It seems that too many are loosing sleep over this and staying up late thinking of how to write the next post on "How To Get Your Goat...!"

Go talk on the radio, or play with CW, but find ssomething productive to do with the hobby and stop the useless posting of code vs no-code.

Instead of complaining about either side of this coin, why not try to find a solution and offer it to the powers that, even though they are not going to listen, it least you'll feel like you have done a "Good Thing" as ole Martha would say...

Enjoy and wait to see, but don't make it a live or die thing here again...
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WN2A on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh Please...
If you like the mode you use it.
If you don't like it,don't use it.

This post was not even worth
the bytes its written with.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KC0NVI on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
make 7-UP yours
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by URBANGORILLA on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Don't shoot me. I'm only the piano player.

UG
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AC9TS on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AK2B,

I stand corrected....then I fall down off my bar stool....

Cheers!

Tom - AC9TS
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by GHOSTRIDERHF on August 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey you think this thread is bad!!!!

Wait to next week when we start getting these threads about how Ham radio saved the world from Hurricane Charley -- I will bet you a case of beer that it will start with somethig like this...

"There I was -- with my 2 watt HT which was the only comms that was up in Florida talking to a repeater 2000 miles away -- I singlehandedly directed all rescue efforts while standing in 145 mph winds"

and then a couple of the old timers will jump in and talk about how Ham radio is actually a service not a hobby ...yada yada yada....

 
No Code Dot Org  
by N6OFY on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think that CW still has its place in Ham Radio, and always will.
I don't really think that 5 wpm is that hard.
After all that used to be the entry level licence.

Maybe limited HF for no code, but keep code for the extra!

AND MAKE ALL THE TESTS HARDER!!!!!!
 
RE: You Frighten Me Cal  
by K4JSR on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KOE said, "I don't know what disgusted me more. Was it the stench, bad jokes from Mr. Cal, or merely the sight of him devouring a prime piece of USDA choice in a manner reminiscent of a starved wolverine let loose in a meat packing factory?

What a GUY!!!!! What a PAL!!!!!"

You are just too kind, Feeelep! You forgot to mention
that I single handedly totally grossed out that waiter at Ruth's Chris Steak House who looked like the old guy in the Six Flags commercials.
I guess it was my loud belches that you kept igniting
with your Bic lighter. Unfortunately we did not gross
out the hired help sufficiently to escape paying the
bill. I guess that routine needs some work.
I am glad that you like the aroma of the two skunks
I had in my arm pits. However, they did dilute the
effect of my "no-bath in hamfest season" ambience.
One of my phew friends told me today that if I don't
bathe soon, he will refer to me as the "Green Grosser". I am working for grossest! Maybe I can
make it three more weeks for the Shelby Hamfest.
If it is as hot this year as last year I will be able
to choke a hyena off of a gut wagon! At that point I
will start teaching code by the "barnsworth method"
and forcing the newbies to go off half "Koched".
Think of the stink about learning code that way!
And all of you old geezers thought the newbies were going to get off easy!
Well, I gotta go now. My attack trained Chihuahua,
Cujo, has found some fresh road kill on Hiway 316 and
traffic is light. I want to get some carrion for my
flight to Shelby. I may go visit K3ESE after the
hamfest. We can work on a new mode of transmission,
AM. Aroma Modulation! Just think, Radio Smellophony!
Who would need nude photos of Janet Reno then?
Sigh! Life is good!

73, Cal K4JSR
Sweathog, Ga.

 
Dot's Org-y, Limericks, Guinness  
by KA4KOE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Why all the fuss? Let's turn this thread completely over to the silly and forget all the head bangin' over this silly lil thing called CW.

Kinda like Mr. Miagi:

"TURN ON. TURN OFF. You learn this way Cal-san."

I think its time for irreverent and irrelevant limericks.

YEAH!!!

GIMME ANOTHER GUINNESS BARKEEP!!!
 
no code..  
by SINDK8 on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
why no-code. here in Philippines, no-code amateur liscense exists. its just a way to legalize the use of radio and that will turn out to a hobby. thats the use of no-code liscensing, to minimize illegal users. contrary to what ive said, here in the philippines, still many buddies here are still unliscensed even though there is a no-code liscensing. for me, its just a hobby, A hobby in a sense which we cannot dictate what we want our buddies do, example is the code.

what if for example your buddy is working 24-7 and hes still wants to be a ham, then the best choice is to grab the no-code exam. because of the time needed practicing CW. It demands time and concentration.

for me both of NO-Code and Coded are needed :)

peace to all

DU4-833
 
RE: no code..  
by WA1RNE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'm not implying that U.S. applicants not have to prove themselves to obtain a license; there is a written exam that proves whether you are capable or not.

BTW; I ran CW extensively, participating in CW traffic nets, working DX, contesting, etc. copying 28
WPM on paper. I didn't have difficulty with CW so I'm not taking this position because I had a hard time with it.

Today, CW's usefullness is limited to recreation and everyone should be able to run the mode that suits them. But given it's decreased use in emergency communications, the CW licensing requirement is merely a form of snobery....meanwhile, LOTS of band space is reserved for "CW only" which is essentially DEAD space that is not being utilized effectively.

I get a real charge out of all the belly-aching about CB'ers running on the low end of 10 and we're all up in arms about it. The first 300 Khz is barely being used anyway because it's CW only. What about 3500 to 3750? Somebody tell me about all that new CW activity down on 80.......???

So, given what I've heard so far, what has CW got to do with your ability to be an effective and skilled ham operator? Between 1915 and 1975, quite a bit. Today, not a heck of a lot.

....and drinking beer??? Is that the latest way to enhance your code speed and reduce your other skills?

 
Code and Beer  
by KA4KOE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
...absolutely. Beer reduces stress if not done to excess.

As a cw op of 25 years, I prefer to toss back a good Guinness before I cut forth with my CW. Funny thing though, I can't tell if I make more mistakes or not.

I'll have another Guinness, thank you.
 
RE: Code and Beer  
by K4JSR on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Beer is great for know code/no code dead horse whippings. Nothing enhances a sweathog's personal
un-bathed ambience than the stink of old, stale spilled beer, B.O. and halitosis! BELCH!
After all, isn't know code/no code all about who can
raise the biggest stink? All out STENCH warfare?

Actually, know code/no code debates are grosser than
my postings on this thread. As they told Pee Wee
Herman before his arrest, "GET A GRIP"!
There is a myth about code tests weeding out the CBers. Not so! I have taught code to over 100 CBers
in days gone by and they have become excellent ham
operators. Many have accomplished wonderous feats in DX, ARES, Elmering and just plain hamming.
On the other hand I have been on DF committees that
have found many repeater jammers to have 20 WPM Extra
tickets. To me the silly myth about code being a filter was busted over 25 years ago and still gets
busted daily. The fact is that many of the no code
Techs realize that they want more than what they have
by not knowing the code. Check the threads here and
on QRZ. More and more people are asking questions about learning code and are seriously attempting to
do so. I have many friends who are NCT's and have no
desire for HF privileges. They are perfectly good
hams and many are extremely technically competent.

Some people are just snobs and deserve to live in places that have CCRs and other restrictions.(*)
One in particular comes to mind. This fellow was a
student in one of my ham classes . After he passed his Novice exam and gotten his license in the mail,
he tried to get on the air with no success. He asked
at one of my General/Advanced classes, "Why are hams
such stuck up prigs"? He went on to relate that he had called CQ many times and never once gotten an answer. I went to his house and checked his rig.
His old transmitter had several cold solder joints,
not unusual for kit built stuff. I showed him how
to reflow the solder joints and got him on the air that same evening. He later went on to get his 20 WPM Extra. About two years ago I got an email from
this fellow, now qualified for QCWA membership, saying that he was quitting ham radio because he did
not like No Code Techs! So who is the PRIG?

So to those of you on either side of the debate, take
your silly prejudices and shove them where the sun
don't never shine and let those of us who choose to
enjoy ham radio do so in peace!

73, Cal K4JSR CET
Biteme, Ga.

PS. How's that for a silly limerick, Philip?
PPS. (*)This does not include Steve, W4CNG, who looks
at CCRs as a personal challenge! ;-D

 
No Code Dot Org  
by N3AIU on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Typically, code/no-code threads tend to become nasty because hams are very passionate about the issue. I'm glad to see that these posts are mostly civil and even humorous. Either we've become more polite over the last year or like two punch-drunk fighters we're just too tired to hurl insults at each other (grin) ...

73, Nick N3AIU
 
RE: Code and Beer  
by WA1RNE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

"Actually, know code/no code debates are grosser than
my postings on this thread."

Not quite; I think we got a whole lot a debat'in to go before we hit that milestone.

Sorry, must be like drinkin beer...I just couldn't help myself.

--*** ***--
 
RE: no code..  
by NJ0E on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> What about 3500 to 3750? Somebody tell me about
> all that new CW activity down on 80.......???

well, you asked for it ... :)

actually i operate 80m cw almost every evening.

either the texas cw net (3643 khz) or the texas slow
net (3719 khz). occasionally both. there are a
significant number of section level nts nets
between 3600 and 3700 khz.

there's a group of boat anchor enthusiasts in this
area on 3536.5 khz. including one fellow who uses a
transmitter he homebrewed in 1939.

there's also a fair amount of activity on the
colorburst crystal frequency (3579.545) and
there's a cheap microprocessor crystal for
3686.5 khz that's popular with the north georgia
qrp club and the knightlites (another qrp club).
i use these rocks sometimes myself in a homebrew
half watt qrp transceiver.

then i often encounter folks working on completing
their 5 band DXCC near the bottom of the 80 meter
cw sub band.

73,
scott nj0e
 
RE: Code and Beer  
by AC0H on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<"meanwhile, LOTS of band space is reserved for "CW only" which is essentially DEAD space that is not being utilized effectively.">>

So.... This whole thing isn't really about the ARRL and the FCC keeping so many obviously worthy people off the HF frequencies by requiring a paltry 5wpm CW proficiency, which by the way any reasonably intelligent chimpanze can master. It's all about bandwidth lust. It's good to see somebody finally admit it.

 
No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Actually, this thread has provided me with a pleasant surprise!

Instead of becoming progressively more divided and nasty, this thread seems to have acknowledged that there is an issue that transcends the whole “Code/No Code” debate……….BEER!

I’m truly glad to see that a sense of perspective has finally come to this issue!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”



P.S.

Do you think we can get a “Rum vs BPL” thread going???

KLC

 
No Code Dot Org  
by N3AIU on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KB9YZL:

What's the recipe for a "BPL"? I hope it has vodka ...

73, Nick N3AIU
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K1CJS on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"<<"After hearing so much anti cw sentiment until I was tired of it, I lost any last vestiges of desire I had for phone operation.">> Ditto. CW......those that can do...........those that can't make fun of it like some whiney little 3rd grader."

After all the bullsh*t I've heard like the above, I'm about ready to trash the code CDs I have been using. Those who feel the way the above poster feels, you can keep your HF bands. I'm sick and tired of hearing about morse code being ham radio. IT ISN'T. PERIOD.
 
Mo' beer  
by KA4KOE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CJS:

You sound stressed lad. Come on down to Savannah and lets have a Guinness together. I'll buy the first round, promise.

Feeeeeeleeeeeeeep
 
Last call for alcohol....!!!!!!  
by KA4KOE on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In this thread who is still bellyaching about code/no-code, you TOO need to relax and have a

YOU GUESSED IT

A BEER...!!!!

Feeeee-leeeeeep
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
wHERE IS MY BEER!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WHAT 5 BUX FOR A BUD BREWSKI...CHECK PLEASE!!!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
yOU get 86ed out of a bar.

What do you do

1)Elmer the bouncer
2)Call the health dept.
3)Operate your 2M H-T outside the joint.
4)Start a code VS anti-code debate with drunkards in the bar who no nothing about ham radio!
5)Call Reilly!
6)Call the ARRL
7)call the SLA
8)Order a pizza with a dead yak on it to the place.
9)Steal the heart of the owners girlfriend
10)fill in the blank
 
RE: Mo' beer  
by K1CJS on August 17, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
By KA4KOE:

"CJS:
You sound stressed lad. Come on down to Savannah and lets have a Guinness together. I'll buy the first round, promise."

I would but I've been binking dreer. I've also fallen up and can't get down. Now, where did I put that beer stein? Oh! There it is--standing on the wall--but all the beer sloshed out. Refill time! -- But I can't reach the spigot--its halfway up the floor!!!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CJS, do not give up! This is internet NOT ham radio!

I like your spirited postings.

When I started in ham radio, I wished CW would no longer be required.

I went to the FCC field office, hoping to walk out with my general. Instead I just past the theory. I walked out of the Varick street office all bummed out!

So rather than hang out on 2M (440 was rare back then) I listened to W1AW for months. Plus back then techs had to pass 5WPM. So I racked up a bunch of states in the Novice bands.

Any way Cal, Phil, and I are routing for you, as well as many others.

Throttle up!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by YEPSURE on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW used to be ham radio. Ham radio used to be CW.

There was a time when CW was an integral part of ham radio. But we've moved past the times of the Titanic and CW is among the dying modes. It is no longer representative of amateur radio in the way it once was. It is still a part of ham radio, just no longer the defining mode of it.

It's a simple mode of operation just as any other. Nothing more, nothing less. If you think you're a "real ham" just because you know CW then I suppose you can tell yourself anything you like. Whatever takes your mind off the fact that CW went by the wayside in the technology race is fine with me.

Ignorance is bliss I guess . . .
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Would it not be great if threads could be used to find out more bout each others hobbies, lives, and other stuff?

More learning from each other.

A thread is not a means to an end of BICKERING!!!!!!
We could talk about beer. funny personal stories.
Cal is full of em.

How about sharing About any thing.......... EXCEPT BPL,CW/ANTI-CW, HAM RADIO IS GOING DOWN, AND MY 2METER REPEATER IS FILLED WITH CBERS~. ECT.

LOOKS LIKE THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY BEER!
I SAY GOOD!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Nick N3AIU no vodka in the original BPL.

1)B=backwash beer. Some use Brandy

2)PL=Pink lemonaide.

It is 1/2 bckwash beer and 1/2 pink lemonaide.

It is considered the precuser to the wine cooler.

A good vodka drink is the vigilante.

It is a screwdriver with 5 shots of vodka.

This drink got it's name in NYC. These thugs tried to rob some dude with a screwdriver. The dude shot the muggers with 5 shots from a .38cal S&W revolver.
TRUE STORY!!!!!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KF4DEW on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am a no- code and don't care for the code. But i am not here to down it. I just wish they would go ahead and make up there minds to either do away with it or keep it. I myself will never uses code. One other thing i have against people in ham radio is if you don't know the code you are not a ham. That's a bunch of bull. thanks...
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NJ0E on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KF4DEW
------
> I am a no- code and don't care for the code. But
> i am not here to down it. I just wish they would
> go ahead and make up there minds to either do away
> with it or keep it. I myself will never uses code.

well, at the time i was working on earning my
first license (1975), i would have said the
same thing you're saying now. cw didn't really
appeal to me, though i worked up to the 13 wpm
level, & received the general. several months
later, i was able to get a rig that would
operate 'phone, & i used the mike almost
exclusively for several weeks.

i did, though, later tune down into the cw
segments from time to time so i wouldn't
forget it completely. after upgrading to
advanced, i decided to "strike while the
iron is hot", and cultivate 20 wpm cw
proficiency to make a run for the extra.

today my paddles sit on the desktop at my
operating position, while the microphones
collect dust in a desk drawer.

how do you know whether you would enjoy cw
or not, if you don't give it a go?

i don't know of anyone who entered amateur
radio explicitly to use cw; every cw op i
know gravitated to it only after cultivating
proficiency and using the mode on the air.

frankly, it's irksome to hear entry level
and prospective licensees whine about the
requirement to learn cw. how do you know
whether you'd like it or not if you haven't
learned it & used it for a spell? why not
keep an open mind about it and give it a
go while preparing for the general?

73
scott nj0e
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K0AMZ on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK do away with the code but DON'T give No Code Techs General privilages. Bring back the old tech bands for them!!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by NY7Q on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW IS HAM RADIO. BEER AND CW IS HAM RADIO. IF YOU DONT LIKE CW, GO AWAY...FLY MODEL AIRPLANES, KNIT SOCKS..BUT GO AWAY....
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by GM0ONX on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
CW IS HAM RADIO. BEER AND CW IS HAM RADIO. IF YOU DONT LIKE CW, GO AWAY...FLY MODEL AIRPLANES, KNIT SOCKS..BUT GO AWAY....

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BEER IN THE WORLD FOR THIS TO MAKE SENCE!!
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ah yes……….Now there are some posts like we used to see back at the beginning of this debate. Thanks NJ0E and NY7Q!

I can only speak for myself, but I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that I’m not going to use Code, and I’m not going to follow NY7Q’s advice and “Go away”!

First of all, I was basically forced to be here;…..so don’t tell me to leave! Our group needed what the only the ARS seems to offer:……international use of VHF/UHF frequencies for serious mobile communication. We are even further constrained by the fact that the National Weather Service, and the Spotter Nets around North America are established on ARS frequencies.

If there had been any other way to get the kind of function we’re looking for, and access
to the people we need to talk to, I would have never bothered with an Amateur License, and NY7Q wouldn’t be irritated at me for cluttering up his view of his perfect world.

Secondly, concerning NJ0E’s remarks:………I learned Code over 40 years ago as a Boy Scout, and I’m sorry to say that it bored me even back then. The idea of using it now to listen to someone half a world away complain about his gall bladder interests me about as much as watching bumpers rust.

You’re probably wondering why I’m on this site: Well……. Eham is a good source of technical information. After a little bit of exposure to the hardware, I discovered that I had interests in the technical side of things, and I now enjoy home-brewing antennas, and dealing with the practical problems our group faces. I have come to consider Amateur Radio to be one of my hobbies………..but I carefully avoid referring to myself as a “Ham”.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NY7Q on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It goes right back to the core of ham radio. Wx spotting, religion, digital crap doesnt belong on Ham radio. Go buy your own frequencies. Wx spotting is a good thing, but it does not belong on ham radio. Preaching doesnt belong on ham radio, but its a good thing for some. they have freqs up in 9 mhz for that. You guys have made ham radio a prostitute for your own little narrow ideas. In fact, you wouldn't even be around if it were not for "real hams" and our inventions and such in the past. So, like I said, go find a van, a little GMRS, and talk all you want about tornados and severe wx. But go away from ham radio. Better yet, learn code, use it and you might be surprized that it is a good and great thing. Guys like me might die off, but we won't go away from the issue until that time. Ya know how the saying goes, "get outta here ya dummy!"
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
National Beer Code Day! What a *burp* great idea! I'm starting my plans tonight!

73

Dave/al2i
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Show up, and you get a free beer. Negotiate 5 wpm and you get another. 10 wpm earns *burp* you a third. As you hit 15wpm, you qualify for yer forth. If y'all really kick a** and do 20 sumpthin, keep diggin fer *hic* more beer. Faster guys can jest go do they're thing cause I am too wasted to mess w'them and the stupid dummies fergot to br *burp* bring chips.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
NY7Q;

Thank you for saving me a lot of effort.....You've done a better job of embarrassing yourself than I could have ever done for you!

Enjoy your little world!

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
No Code Dot Org  
by WA2JJH on August 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
NY7Q;
How much do one of them thar 9mhz radio-preach tickets cost?

I thought I had 9MHZ preach privs when I get a $75 on line GMRS ticket!

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NJ0E on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
NY7Q
----

> It goes right back to the core of ham radio. Wx
> spotting, religion, digital crap doesnt belong
> on Ham radio. Go buy your own frequencies. Wx
> spotting is a good thing, but it does not belong
> on ham radio.

on the matter of religion (i assume you mean
religious broadcasting or aggressive proselytizing),
i would agree completely.

religion, however, is a significant part of life
for many people, and if they want to converse
about it on the air with others in the same vein
as they do about other aspects of their lives, i
don't think that's particularly objectionable. i
often will close a qso with a simple benediction;
'HPE CUL BT GOD BLESS U ES URS 73'.

concerning weather spotting and the digital modes,
i couldn't disagree more. i think weather spotting
and experimentation with digital modes are both
entirely appropriate applications of amateur radio.

73
scott nj0e
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by RADIO123US on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KB9YZL said " I have never had any interest in the HF bands, and wouldn’t use them if the FCC granted me HF Privileges tomorrow!"

Kent, I know we don't alway agree on things, but I respectfully have a question. If you are NOT interested in HF, then why do you keep showing up in these threads about no code and HF ?
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NY7Q on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
my world is big and believe me, I don't embarrass. So,,,go away....go bird watching....
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
RADIO123US

Now that’s a fair question.

I guess I look at these threads because they tend to be the ones where the NCTs take their worst bashing. I know from my own experience that many NCTs stay NCTs not because they’re lazy, but because they already have the access they need and want. I feel inclined to defend that position against some of the unfounded criticism.

I am completely sincere in saying that I have no interest in HF “privileges”. No matter what the FCC decides to do, you will never hear me under 50 MHZ.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by RADIO123US on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Kent, I do not have any issues with NCT’s, or their EXISTING privileges. It’s the NCT’s that somehow think they deserve HF privileges with NO additional effort that I take issue with. I personally do not think that the current written tests are difficult enough (they should NOT publish the questions/answers), but if this could be corrected, I would have no problem with limited HF no code privileges. I DO believe that the Extra class ticket should be reserved for those that have passed the code test though, and the Extra subbands should be preserved.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB3KAQ on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>>
"Doing it on a computer would be a colossal bore to all of them. They do everything on a computer already. It is blasé."
<<<

this statement rings true for many people of my generation and younger. at nearly 32, i have used computers since i was 8, or roughly all my life. i use them at work, at home, they control my fridge, my car, and my radio. they have lost the awe factor long ago.

i enjoy the hobby because i don't need wires or an IP or an O/S that needs patched (no Orion at my QTH). my son is 3 and will grow-up with computers doing nearly every task conceived.

ham radio, code or no code, fills the void for a hobby that is removed from the everyday world i live in. CW operation is alien to me, i learned the code to upgrade, and now i'm trying to understand it.

it matters not, as another stated, what test is between you and the goal - if you want something enough, you will overcome the obstacle, and hell, you might even learn a thing or two in the process.

a loss of respect has mired our society, and our hobby is reflective of this change. the debate over code is a fruitless one and serves no one. the FCC will pass judgement regardless.

make mine a stout

-steve
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
RADIO123US

I understand your position, and agree with it. (And I certainly was NOT implying that you were one of the posters that routinely give NCTs a hard time!)

You know from my posts over the past year that I have always favored a more rigorous, technically oriented suite of tests. I also agree that HF access should not be granted without showing additional learning and achievement:…….That’s only logical when you consider that a poorly run HF transmitter can interfere with other transmissions on a world-wide basis.

At the risk of upsetting some, I do have to mention a point that has troubled me since I first read one of these threads:……… Knowing Code does nothing to assure that the operator in question knows how to set up, tune, and operate an HF Station. I think those are the important issues.

Once again, it’s been a pleasure to chat with you.

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AL2I on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
KB9YZL: EXACTLY! And, with IRLP reflectors, good operating practices are *extremely* important. If there is ever a Nation Beer Code Day you should be in charge of the cooler.

Now it's back to 14.005mHz for me while I continue to monitor the local IRLP node at 146.580mHz.

Best 73,
Dave/al2i
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OLDFART13 on August 19, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I also feel that there is a place on HF for No Code hams. As I previously posted in countless other forums I feel that the ARRL proposal is the best deal out there. It is a compromise but it might help to end this bickering. Under the ARRL proposal only an Extra would have to learn the code at a super easy 5wpm. If that is too much work for an Extra class license then YOU DON"T DESERVE A DAMN LICENSE!!!

Of course NCVEC, W5YI and NCI would never agree with this, shame on them.

 
ZERO WPM  
by WPE9JRL on August 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thirty-three years ago I could do 20 WPM as a Novice.

Now, I have trouble remembering the letters and my code speed is zero WPM.

I once knew the code...now I don't.

What does that make me?

As for me....I don't care.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by HAMDUDE on August 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Im with the beer guys...to hell with this code no code bickering...its real old already. Make mine a stout too.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OLDFART13 on August 20, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I think I will have me a beer also; on Sunday after the contest is over!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by K4JSR on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'll have a nice code beer. (HIC!) (Belch)
I think I've almost had enough. All I want to do is
talk about my favorite car dealer: RALPH! BUICK!
EUROPE! I heard several people discussing this car dealer last time I went deep sea fishing! Funny thing, they were always at the rear (stern measures!)
of the boat while loudly discussing Ralph! Buick!
Europe!

73, Cal K4JSR
Landlubber, Ga.

PS. Mike, MG, please just regard this posting as just another of my many "PUKE-A-DILLOS"! :-0
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KI4GBR on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am a new HAM. I just recently pass my "no code" tech. I want to get Amateur Extra and am willing to earn it by learning code! I just cant get a grasp on it. I play drums, piano, guitar, flute, sax, trumpet, and a few others but cant seem to get the "rythm" of code. In my opinion, and thats just what it is, code should be manditory for certain tickets. Lets face it, amateur radio is the birthplace and backbone for all radio communications as we know it today. I work for the local 911 system here. We dispatch on the great, powerfull, flawless, all mighty 800 mHz system. But we have a few 800 mHz frequecies that are patched to the VHF frequencies. On those patches, per FCC regs, we transmit the station call sign in....thats right MORSE CODE! Do you know that there are only 5 dispatcher out of a staff of 30 that can tell you what those dits and dahs are? I know I'm getting long winded here but my point is...Its not broke, stop screwing with it! I'm sorry, but a trained monkey can get a no code ticket. Dont get me wrong, like I said earlier, I too am a no code tech. It takes hard work, dedication, and a true desire to go beyond that. I was nervous to the point of throwing up when I tested, but to my suprise I only missed three questions. Its time for the real amateur radio operators to take a stand and defend this great field we have at our disposal.
 
RE: Padawan and Master  
by W6IML on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well aren't you a fountain of enthusiasm.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YGD on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gentlemen...The bottom Line Is ``REAL HAM`S`` Do CW, Keep A Logbook, And QSL... 73,``THE REAL HAM``
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KB9YZL on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
You know,……….. this is really funny;…….or pathetic,….I’m not sure which.

While so many of you are willing to pound out endless dogma on the subject of Code use, and it’s traditional importance, right now, on other Eham threads, much more important traditions are being ridiculed by members of our own community!

I’m talking about the tradition of Community Service. Slide over to the thread “Is There Planning for Hams to Help? “ and read what is being posted. There are posts on that thread that ridicule even the suggestion that the ARS has anything to offer the community!

All of you “Tradition Conscious” people: Why is it that you will argue endlessly about Code, but you won’t defend the one tradition that actually justifies the existence of the ARS?????

Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by NJ0E on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> Why is it that you will argue endlessly about
> Code, but you won’t defend the one tradition
> that actually justifies the existence of the
> ARS?????

i agree, except the community service aspect is only
one (though important) part of our "raison d'etre".

<-------------- snip ----------------->

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed
to provide an amateur radio service having a
fundamental purpose as expressed in the following
principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of
the amateur service to the public as a voluntary
noncommercial communication service, particularly
with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's
proven ability to contribute to the advancement of
the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur
service through rules which provide for advancing
skills in both the communications and technical
phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within
the amateur radio service of trained operators,
technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's
unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

<-------------- end snip ----------------->

scott
nj0e
"CW Luddite"

 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N2WEC on August 21, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"Blackfly Stout" brewed in Portland Maine. I didn't need CW to order it.........but I'll learn code to tell you about it!!! Code may come and code may go, as for me the challange is on the VHF/UHF bands using SSB. However there are times I wish I had the code down to nail the one I need....... Take it or leave it, I don't care. It has its place for those who need it. Its not needed for rag chewing or casual conversation with a foreign neighbor. Realx, it all comes out in the wash!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by N3EVL on August 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
From KB9YGD, yet another self-appointed authority on real-ham-metrics:

"...Gentlemen...The bottom Line Is ``REAL HAM`S`` Do CW, Keep A Logbook, And QSL... 73,``THE REAL HAM``..."

Now that's funny because I know several people who are certainly real, and definitely hams, and, to the best of my knowledge meet none of the criteria in your definition.

The bottom line? There is no bottom line except to say it's time for another beer.

pete/n3evl
 
No Code Dot Org  
by HF2PWA on August 23, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Robert chambers aint no joke
Robert Chambers where's the soap!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by OLDFART13 on August 29, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
So many new hams claim that being introduced to CW at a very easy 5WPM is too hard for them. Take that easy requirment away from them and there is no incentive to learn anything for a license.

However, some new hams will actually want to improve their operating abilities and will learn CW. The new hams that learn CW will be the consumate hams of the future.
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by AD6WL on August 30, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Who is Robert Chambers?
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by KG4FOY on August 31, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This article has nothing to do with a no theroy license, all you old stick in the muds are so afraid of any change you'll do anything to stop it. Many of us younger hams see code as just another operating mode. There is no test for PSK 31, Packet ect. so why should there be a test for morse code? If one mode is to recieve special testing status then all modes should be tested equally. (Then watch ham radio die all together)

Brad

--just because its always been that way does not make it right.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by SM5JAB on September 2, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hi all. Not surprisingly, exactly the same discussion goes on in Europe. The non-cw-people are winning. My first reaction was one of horror and disgust but I have slowly come to another opinion.

Despite the fact that we don't *need* morse code to get on the HF-bands any longer, I still teach morse to hams. I feel there has been an increasing pressure on the morse code courses, and that I think, is the future: Promote morse code - despite the fact that it is not necessary any more.

We need to make morse popular again. Lure new hams into morse, they will enjoy it too. Granted, not everybody wants to learn the code, but a large percentage does, given half a chance.

One poster said that using a computer as TX/RX for morse makes it mainly uninteresting. I agree totally. In this day and age when machines do everything around us it is particularily pleasing to be able to pick up skills that do not require all that hitech we are surrounded with. I write texts on computers all day but also use stenography beacuse it is fun and a challenge. I have 1963 vibroplex champion for fast keying and a straight key for slow speed. No computers. Being in computers and networks and unix and stuff all day long it is definately relaxing to keep them out of the shack for the hobby.

Morse IS fun!
FISTS #8379
/Micke

PS When will they allow us to tap in morse code in our cell phones? I hate the small keys and the stupid input system on my phone. Gimme a morse key and I'll send SMS:es att 25WPM, no problem. That would bring back morse skills (at least sending) to every kid around. What a mass movement!!!
 
RE: No Code Dot Org  
by VE7ALQ on September 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I was licenced in Canada on my 15th Birthday in 1969, having passed a 10 word per minute code test and a relatively simple theory test. I then was allowed to operate CW-ONLY on the HF bands, logging every contact. After a year, I was allowed to take my log and present myself to the Radio Inspector. He checked my log to confirm that I was active on HF, then he gave me a 13 word per minute code test and a more difficult theory test. I became an "advanced" amateur, and this gave me voice privileges on the HF bands.

I quickly found out that a watt of CW went a lot further than a watt of SSB or AM(!) Also, CW did not come out of the neighbour's stereo and telephone like other modes unfortunately did. So apart from 75 meters SSB rag chewing, the majority of my operations on HF were CW.

This is still true today, when I am living in an apartment and have a compromise ButterNut HF6V six band vertical with the 160 meter TBR-160-S resonator on the roof. I can get out on 40 meters CW and 30 meters CW, other bands are not so hot.

I sure like to slap on a 250 Hz CW filter and know that my communication only occupies 1/4 kilohertz of spectrum, as well as being able to work the weak ones.

As you might have guessed, I think that dropping the Code requirement for HF access is DUMB, and appeals to the Lowest Common Denominator. In a little while, I guess all our rigs will be type-approved in the future as we are not competant to open up these Silicon Boxes and troubleshoot them. For instance, my ICOM IC-706mkiig did NOT even come with a circuit diagram(!)
 
No Code Dot Org  
by KI4GOP on September 24, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Code is ok, for those that wish to use it, but I see no use in having to learn it, and never using it again. I had wanted to get my Ham license since the seventies, but after listening to an Ameco morse code record for about six months, I gave up. Only recently did I discover that the code had been dropped for the technician license and acquired that license. I am again trying to learn code for the next step to get on the HF bands, but I am again having trouble learning code, the theory comes easy, but with the code, I'm dislexic, sorry, but I'll be glad to see it go.
 
No Code Dot Org  
by AC7CW on October 3, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I just checked out the nocode website. They invite non-hams to join them in their fight. Seems genuinely unfair to do that, letting non-hams decide the rules for Hams.

Max
 
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