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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
Keith LaBorde (K4KAL)
on
August 27, 2004
View comments about this article!
Did I Just Work a DX Station?
I had the pleasure of making a contact with Tom, NN2X this morning who was 20 over here in Marietta, Georgia. I saw a spot on the DX Cluster that he was in Bahrain, and I quickly joined the pile up. Later I found out he was actually sitting in Bahrain, but using the Internet to access a US Station in Boston Massachusetts.
The whole QSO was somewhat of a let down, because I really need to work someone in Bahrain, and not the USA. I was wondering what comments other Amateur operators may have on this topic. Being a collector of QSL Cards for awards, it will be interesting how the ARRL and other organizations will stay on top of this.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by AB0SI on August 27, 2004
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You wroked a nice guy and a fine ham -- what's the problem? <grin>
The "problem," assuming there is one, is treating a DX cluster spot as gospel truth. Tom always makes it clear from whence the RF is eminating.
Paul AB0SI
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KF4VGX on August 27, 2004
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I have had the pleasure of talking with Tom Wright a few times through my Repeater. Well respected Amateur Radio Operator. I'm sure you will agree.
Years ago while talking to him , There were bombs going off around his home at the time. We had to cut our conversation short as the city was sure to kill the power.
Also a local Ham on this Repeater KC8IOG Ryan while talking with Tom passed traffic to his father somewhere in Colombia S.C.
At this time I was the only Echolink /Repeater in S.C.
( Merry Christmas wishing he were there with him )
Its a pleasure to serve and share this Hobby while using voip as a means to pass traffic if and when needed.
I cant understand any one being let down when talking with Tom, for the sake of communications.
I'm sure Tom will try and accommodate you as to where he operates on H.F. Did you ask Him ?
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by X-WB1AUW on August 27, 2004
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It is pretty easy to stay “on top of this” since the station location is what counts.
Hence, one cannot be in a ship anchored next to Scarborough Reef and simply sign /BS7.
Bob
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KU5B on August 27, 2004
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Maybe this will answer your question:
www.w7dxx.com
Colin KU5B
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K7JBQ on August 27, 2004
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Keith,
Packet cluster aside, your first clue that the RF was not coming from Bahrain might have been that the station was 20 over 9.
That said, you noted you enjoyed the QSO. I think that's great. I would have loved to have been able to ragchew with many of my DX contacts, but the pileup might have gotten a tad unruly.
73,
Bill
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K7VO on August 27, 2004
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> Packet cluster aside, your first clue that the RF was
> not coming from Bahrain might have been that the
> station was 20 over 9.
Actually, no, that isn't a clue. 9K2GS in Kuwait was 20 over here and I did work him. It was on 20, there was a huge pileup, and no, it wasn't through an IRLP or Echolink connection.
Having said that, it might be really nice if he were coming through a repeater once in a while so that a ragchew would be possible instead of an exchange of signal reports through a pileup.
No, IRLP is not DX, and no, it doesn't harm DX. It's just a different mode of communication, a marriage of ham radio and the internet.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K8AG on August 27, 2004
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This stuff isn't DXing any more than dialing Austrailia on a cell phone is DXing. I'm sorry, but what's the point? I mean if the point of ham radio is to simply talk to people at random and far away, then we can do that for a lot less money and effort.
I think that the way we make the connection is the important thing. The direct connection between two stations on different parts of the planet, bouncing signals off of the ionosphere, with no form of infrastructure other than the power company (and sometimes maybe not even that).
Its not what we do, but how we do it that makes ham radio worth doing.
73,
John Pawlicki, K8AG
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by W0OOW on August 28, 2004
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What ever has happened to turning over every "rock" in order to find a station. True DX clusters make things easier. At the same time they have stolen some reward.
I guess you pay either in time spent or give it away to a cluster.
Steve
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by KG4RUL on August 28, 2004
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You know they used to have DX communication devices on most every corner. Pickup the handset, feed in some coins, talk to someone in Somalia or Bahrain or wherever. If DX becomes as easy as placing a long distance phone call, why bother learning about propagation at all? The DX cluster replaces any need for skill or perseverence.
Dennis / KG4RUL
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by NL7W on August 28, 2004
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As an engineer/project manager solving public safety's Project 25 radio systems voice transport via SATCOM (using VoIP or RoIP methods), I can easily say that technology (primarily IP) is allowing many to make quality, relatively noise-free, contacts to and from most points on the globe.
On the other hand, where are the earned and long lasting qualities that make the DX contact memorable, such as the effort to learn about the physics and the magic of propagation? Where are the efforts necessary to develop honed operating skills? Where's the perseverence and fortitude required to become a highly skilled radio operator?
As a teenager twenty five years ago, I found these operating challenges quite fulfilling. Do the youngsters of today find a couple of keystrokes and the PTT button on an HT just as challenging and fulfilling? I thing not... Is technology a double-edged sword? I will you let you make that decision, though I would believe you understand my thoughts on this subjecct. 73.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by NY7Q on August 28, 2004
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It is NOT a DX contact. Repeaters, internet..etc. have no place in radio communications when it comes to DX and awards or accomplishments. Radio is radio, internet is a horse of another color. I curse the day internet got into radio communications.
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WB2DLF on August 28, 2004
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Here we go again, blowing things out of proportion (or out of context). I do not think the integrity of Mr. Tom Wright (NN2X) was being questioned but the way the contact was made vs qsl cards/certificates. Is our hobby stil "amatuer radio" or is it becoming "amatuer telephone" (to quote Charles Brabham, N5PVL).
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by N2WEC on August 28, 2004
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While its not a DX contact, enjoy the conversation. Talking / conversation on the radio is a lost art. You talked by radio, enjoy meeting a new friend. Next time ask him if he will set a scheduled time to try and talk to you by "real" DX. You will get your needed contact. Best of luck.
N2WEC
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KA5N on August 28, 2004
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If having a QSL card is all that is necessary for getting credit for a DX contact, then I can add 3-4 countries that I have QSLs for and never worked. Since I don't even apply for awards it makes no difference to me or anybody else. Certificates are pretty much a joke anyway. With a 5BDXCC and $5 you can still buy a cup of coffee and maybe a donut. You know whether you deserve an award and if you lie you lie to yourself.
Allen KA5N
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K4RAF on August 28, 2004
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This is not much different than the frustration felt over DX Clusters or contesting with Voice Keyers.
Some justify this or that but if amateur VoIP keeps spreading out (as "radio"), we won't have our service much longer, we'll just have a "virtual switchboard".
The FCC is noticing some are quite content with using VoIP phone protocols, common radio stations & can then justify taking ham spectrum. Afterall, you are replacing your purpose & freedom with barracks.
I'm not saying stop it, but stop calling it DX or just radio. It's just bogus to me but dangerous as well!
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by G0GQK on August 28, 2004
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Its these sort of things that make life so irritating isn't it ?
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by AG4HY on August 28, 2004
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hooo boy
sure glad i stopped in.
am getting my garden ready for fall and all this, "stuff" will really help it grow large turnips and other greens
73 hi hi hi
ag4hy
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by G3SEA on August 28, 2004
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1. It's common sense and ' understood ' on EchoLink that QSL's are not exchanged nor are certificates applied for. Sometimes I might send a Hawaii postcard as a result of an interesting QSO with a distant station but NO it's not DX ( nor a normal QSL ) as we know it.
There is no substitute for the ' magic ' of HF but there are many whose only resort IS EchoLink. Does the hobby want to lose those folk ( and their subscriptions and support of the ARRL,CQ,Eham.Net etc ) ?.
There is room for all modes in our hobby :) Let's have a little more of the 'Aloha' spirit in our hobby :)
73 & Aloha :)
KH6/G3SEA
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K1CJS on August 28, 2004
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Here we go again, wanting to stay with the old and ignore the new. Even if it isn't DX, it is a part of present day amateur radio. No one wishes we had spark gap transmitters back--those complaining about present day methods and modes are just the old time purists who complained about CW sets, then transistor sets, etc.
It was said before and it'll be repeated until everyone can understand--hold ham radio back by insisting on retaining the old methods and you'll end up killing the HOBBY of ham radio. Nobody uses TI-4 or Commodore computers for serious work anymore just like nobody uses spark gap transmitters anymore. (Yes, I know they're no longer permitted except for special operation.)
How about growing up and getting with the times. A lot of you act like your shoe size is your age. Get over it.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WA2JJH on August 28, 2004
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I agree with most others. I had a similar experience over 25 years ago. A 10M repeater had an old OSCAR
satellite link.
I check into this 10M repeater, and the kindly OM
control op, put my 10M FM audio up on the satellite link. The control op said I was 59 into Japan!
Sure I was impressed as a 17 year old.
However the real deal ws working JI7VLY on 10M CW!
I have her QSL card hanging in the shack.
I worked her when 10M was hot. People were converting SSB CB radio's for 10M CW and SSB.
Call me an old fart. It is antenna to antenna that makes it a contact!
Whats next eithernet connectors next to the SO-239!
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WA2JJH on August 28, 2004
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Chris I am very proud of my shoe size!
There is a line from the movie ("The Deer Hunter) that has a perfect line about shoe size:)
Actually it was boot size. I cannot repeat it because it wil be edited out!!!!!!
.. (--. --- -) .- boot fer u %&**&&&&^^%$$##$^^
Just kidding K1CJS! You have your strong opinions and other people have a right to theirs too!
Lets see an IQ of 90-100 is below average. The largest shoe size is what a 15 EEE?
I think milligrams of caffeine in soda's is a much better way of comparing IQ.
So your saying that I am decafe! You are a triple expresso? Do you really have a 200+ IQ?
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WA2JJH on August 28, 2004
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Let me retract s little. wired ham radio has its place.
The communications act of 1934 states that hams always embrace state of the art technologies.
I tried www.IVISIT.com. You should have a camera and boom mic for best results.
There is one section for ham radio only.
I did have fun working this dude in Germany at midnight.
If you have broadband you also get good quality video of the OM's shack!
However it did not keep my interest.! Too easy. It was like shooting fish in a barrel for me!
I prefer to work on antenna's and other shack improvements to work DX better.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WA2JJH on August 28, 2004
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Let me retract s little. wired ham radio has its place.
The communications act of 1934 states that hams always embrace state of the art technologies.
I tried www.IVISIT.com. You should have a camera and boom mic for best results.
There is one section for ham radio only.
I did have fun working this dude in Germany at midnight.
If you have broadband you also get good quality video of the OM's shack!
However it did not keep my interest.! Too easy. It was like shooting fish in a barrel for me!
I prefer to work on antenna's and other shack improvements to work DX better.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by W4WB on August 29, 2004
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The call sign tells you the location (entity) of the station and that is what counts.
An interesting twist is that, for DXCC at least, the control operator must be located within the same entity as the station in order for the QSO to count in the DXCC program.
For example, if I worked stations from my remote station located in Alabama using the Internet while I was on travel in Japan, none of the QSO are of value for me or the other station with respect to DXCC. How does one know? Operator integrity is the answer, just as you recently experienced.
73,
Barry W4WB
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by NN2X on August 29, 2004
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Interesting Comments to say the least!
For all those who desire to work HF directly from Bahrain, I would be more than happy to set up with our Bahrain Club Station and make a schedule.
But I have to tell you, when I am demonstrating Ham radio to the youngsters, or Political Figures, they all get a "Shock and Awe" when I use the Internet in combination of the HF communications.
The Children totally love it, because I am in there own domain, (Internet), while they are chatting on the Internet, or using Blue Tooth to find a date through their Cell Phones at Star Bucks, I am using wireless connection on a LAP Top in a Hotel in Bahrain demonstrating the use HAM radio. About 2 weeks ago I talked with a Kuwait (9k2gs) via HAM radio through Boston Station (W7DXX). This totally impressed the handful of children and Political figures that heard when I was having a QSO with 9K2GS in Kuwait.
Personally I enjoy HAM radio, and the conversations, I also like to extend the Ham radio vernacular (Voice over IP, Visual Basic to emulate the HAM Radio, and a host of others.)
I want to thank you all the Ham Operators that provided the warmest comments.
I hope to hear you all on the air soon!
VIA W7DXX or Direct!!!
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K1CJS on August 29, 2004
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Hey Mike, I'm glad you are! Maybe you also want to plant your size (xx) boot into some of the fannies of those who just complain about every little thing under the sun. (Yep, I'm guilty of that too!)
I'd bet that some would complain about working a station that was remotely controlled, say on top of a mountain from a lower level operating station. And how about repeaters, another form of a remote controlled station. Please don't say that that is 2 meter stuff, either. Most hams know that there are 10 meter repeaters, although not that many of them. I'd bet some would say "I didn't know that!" Oh-oh, IQ down a little?
Anyway, to each his own--if one wants to chase paper, go for it. As someone else said, you got the QSO card from that operator, and that's what counts--so why don't they just stop their bellyaching!
73 Mike. Oh, and by the way, if those of you who are complaining are so intent on chasing those wallpaper pieces, why aren't you on your rigs instead of using that which you so despise--your computers?
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KE4ZHN on August 29, 2004
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You said you enjoyed the contact right? Why not leave it at that and dont worry if he was on a link or not. The man didnt try to misrepresent his location and stated he was operating via an internet link so I dont see anything wrong with that. Im sure once we get further into solar decline, your going to hear alot more of this as band conditions get worse. Dxing is fun, but communication is what ham radio is all about. I get just as much enjoyment out of a good qso whether its across town or 5000 miles away, its the conversation that counts.
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by OLDFART13 on August 29, 2004
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Internet linking is a way for some to pretend to work DX. AOL, Yahoo or MSN Instand Messenger would be a cheaper and easier alternative and it would get you the same amount of DXCC credits.
Those who can do; those who can't use internet linking.
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by G3VGR on August 29, 2004
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Somebody in NYC sent me a QSL for a contact via IRLP. I only operate HF CW, so was quite flattered that my call was being pirated in what's basically an Internet Chatroom. I don't get qsl cards for telephone calls, so was quite amazed that somebody decided to send a qsl direct for this non-contact via non-radio.
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K8LEA on August 29, 2004
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Just a funny one....
I was one of the first 50 users of the then brand-new local cellphone network. About 20 years ago....
The wife was more than used to mobile phones, having suffered from my 2M autopatch calls for about ten years before that. She found the new cellular telephone incredible.
Anyway, we had to take a trip into Columbus OH in late 1985. On the way back out of Columbus, my wife asked me if she could call her mother back in Youngstown. I dialed up the call, and she talked for a few minutes. Then she handed me the handset, and I closed the call out.
"Sure sounded good. Boy, that thing's got GREAT range!"
I then had to explain the theory of cellphones....
In the instant case, it's not DX.... It could still be fun, of course, but for those who chase certificates, may be at least annoying.
The opposite - putting a rig on a rowboat and running it via remote control from a hotel room, or vice versa, is also a little bit of a nono. But at least it's radio and not the internet [grin].
(I'm not a DX'er, but none of these scenarios seem right. OTOH, if somebody says the're doing it in a way that's obvious, what's the harm? I find the idea that somebody can check into my repeater from Elbonia kind of fun. I've used our reverse autopatch for just that reason - well, not Elbonia - over the years. No more autopatch, but that's another story.)
Stu K8LEA
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by NN2X on August 29, 2004
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I am the Ham Operator who probably provoked this topic. (NN2X)
Before I begin let me apologize in advance if I seem to harsh or embracive.
So let me introduce myself, my name is Tom Wright NN2X, I own a Satellite company providing Connectivity to our Troops in Iraq.
Listen close, (Or read well), at the time of the War, there was absolutely no way I can import HAM radio in Bahrain, I was using my Satellite Link, and W7DXX HAM radio to communicate during a time when the locals where bombing around us.
I was requested by the Navy to have alternate Communications , I was restricted to my Apartment, and DSL was not an option, so I used The Satellite Link / Ham radio to communicate with fellow HAM operators in case of an emergency.
This is why the system was in place, and as of a matter a fact, I was put in place with Navy officer’s complex because of this communication ability.
So, the DX Card, was not really on my top of the list during the War.
I was providing emergency communication via anyway I could, (Internet / Satellite / HAM Radio).
By the way, The Navy officers were totally impressed of the operations.
I continue to use this system, and yes it is fun, but understands the thrust of the effort.
So any more real reasons why this is in place?
So if you hear me call CQ, and I am saying this is NN2X from the Middle East using the W7DXX remotely, please respond, you never know I may need your assistance.
Just the other day, we had complete power outage for the entire island, which included all telephone calls. This was due to terror attack; I had battery back for the satellite Link and my LAP TOP. Works great by the way.
So the next HAM who response if it is real DX or not, has not really understood why this operation was in Bahrain in the first place!
I would thank W4MQ and W7DXX for not only designing the system and putting the time and effort, but moreover they continue to maintain and upgrade their radio systems for folks like us that have real needs.
Best
Tom Wright, NN2X
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by WA2JJH on August 29, 2004
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Chris, you take me too seriously! I just think what you said was perfect timing for the Dear Hunter line!
Hi-Hi
BTW 20M was great today,
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by HF2PWA on August 30, 2004
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CJS TELLING PEOPLE TO ACT THIER AGE IS FOOLISH.
JUST BECAUSE YOU CANNOT GET PAST A TECH TICKET, MAKE THESE HAMS BACKWARDS.
WHO ARE YOU!
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by N7NRA on August 30, 2004
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Another interesting question might be:
Is it really a CW contact if it's sent using a memory keyer or computer, rather than a hand key and ear reception?
Admittedly, this is a bit of a troll, but it's along a similar line of thinking to the original question. Where do we draw the line between use of technology and the intent of some of the awards?
Personally, I wouldn't count any contact using the Internet as anything other than a chance to talk with the other op. As far as using memory keyers and computers to transmit and/or decode CW, I think it's a great way to "advance the radio art" and that these devices have a place in emergency communications and just plain fun communications, but that CW awards should be limited to those ops with enough integrity to use the mode in the way it was intended by the folks who established the award. And that's the catch. There are too many folks who will cheat a little to get a certificate or anything else they want in life. What ever happened to personal integrity?
Regards,
Stew
N7NRA
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by W6SPT on August 30, 2004
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KH6/G3SEA had it right !
I would like to copy/paste his response to several of the derisive data mode discussions lately...
"There is no substitute for the ' magic ' of HF but there are many whose only resort IS EchoLink. Does the hobby want to lose those folk ( and their subscriptions and support of the ARRL,CQ,Eham.Net etc ) ?.
There is room for all modes in our hobby :) Let's have a little more of the 'Aloha' spirit in our hobby :)
73 & Aloha :)
KH6/G3SEA"
73 & Aloha to you...
de
W6SPT
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by K1CJS on August 30, 2004
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Hokay, Mike, I think we can solve the problem.....where's the beer! Oh, and by the way, I just got me an incentive....a Yaesu FT-840.
And Biff, or PWA, whatever, please get it right--I said a lot of people act like their shoe size was their age! Why do you think Mike and I are talking about it? BTW, the last time I looked, I was me--haven't changed since I can remember! And please, lets not start throwing the stones--OK?
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by K1CJS on August 30, 2004
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And I meant the stones of Tech vs. General vs. Extra. The code comes easily to some, and less easily to others--and thats all thats holding me back. I passed the extra theory test a long time ago.
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by NN2X on August 31, 2004
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I think my message is lost the point,
For the most part, I was using the method (Internet / Satellite W7DXX), to help the Navy with an alternative communication link. Not for DX Cards!
Yes, I use it for normal QSO; however the initial need was for the Navy.
No need to worry about is it DX or not. The proper questioned might be, Was the a effective method of communications to help our troops during the war?
Best
Tom Wright
NN2X, Bahrain
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by HF2PWA on August 31, 2004
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JJH and CRS both have A good heart.
Perhaps this will be the split compromise.
If your not allowed to operate HF, use WHATEVER to connect 2 hams. 10M ,Oscar, what ever you can get logged into to mske the contact.
Those with HF prives csn help.
Whats the old cliche....ITS THE MESSSAGE, NOT THE MEDIUM!
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by K1CJS on August 31, 2004
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Exactly my thoughts, PWA, Exactly my thoughts. To each his own. 73!
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by KZ1A on August 31, 2004
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Way to go Tom.
Thanks for what you are doing out there.
73, de Mac KZ1A
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by WA2JJH on August 31, 2004
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A good HF/uhf rig can be an excellent incentive.
You were one of the NCT's that I was hoping would just pass the CW element.
Sorry if it came on as a brash comment.
Good luck. Yes PWA does make a good point. 10M and the wired ham links can be yet another mode of operating.
As for the Beer....I spilled it! So I guess the bEEr is on ME!!!!
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K7VO on September 2, 2004
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Tom, NN2X: I don't think your point was anything less than clear. Some of us do appreciate what you are doing in the Middle East for our troops.
Some of the folks in this thread (and others) remind me of some old Jethro Tull lyrics:
"Once I used to join in
every boy and girl was my friend.
Now there's revolution, but they don't know
what they're fighting.
Let us close out eyes;
outside their lives go on much faster.
Oh, we won't give in,
we'll keep living in the past."
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by K4KAL on September 5, 2004
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Thanks WB2DLF for this comment...
Here we go again, blowing things out of proportion (or out of context). I do not think the integrity of Mr. Tom Wright (NN2X) was being questioned but the way the contact was made vs qsl cards/certificates. Is our hobby stil "amatuer radio" or is it becoming "amatuer telephone" (to quote Charles Brabham, N5PVL).
This was my point!
Thanks to Tom for his support for our troups, and everyones comments. I enjoyed reading all the comments tonight.
Keith, K4KAL
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KF4EIT on September 8, 2004
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Hey Guys I just talked to a fellow Ham in France on PalTalk you know the internet chat room group. Can I Count it as a Dx Contact like those guys in echo link?
I mean its all the same thing now isn't it? I was under the impression when I became a ham 10 years ago that ham radio was talking radio to radio via an antanna was ham radio and now I hear that talking thru the internet is ham radio so that must mean that if I make a contact on a internet chat room it can be a Dx contact cause that is what echolink is. Is it or isn't it?
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RE: Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by KF4VGX on October 24, 2004
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Hey Guys I just talked to a fellow Ham in France on PalTalk you know the internet chat room group. Can I Count it as a Dx Contact like those guys in echo link?
I mean its all the same thing now isn't it? I was under the impression when I became a ham 10 years ago that ham radio was talking radio to radio via an antanna was ham radio and now I hear that talking thru the internet is ham radio so that must mean that if I make a contact on a internet chat room it can be a Dx contact cause that is what echolink is. Is it or isn't it?
..............
Stay on paltalk George :) And say hello to your internet Guy/Girl friend , Teddy Bear . KF4VGV
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Did I Just Work a DX Station?
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by HP1CPE on January 10, 2006
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I will write this just to say that I agree with KE4ZHN/W6SPT/KH6/G3SEA/K7VO and many others in that we have to be update and enjoy our communications modes,that is what counts.
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