What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
Larry Bailey (K3TIN)
on
September 5, 2004
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Ok, let's get the flame throwing material out of the way from the start. I am primarily a CW operator. I do NOT look down on anyone who does not work CW. It happened that when I started in ham radio, as a kid (circa 1959) all I could afford to build was CW equipment. I do CW because it is fun for me. If you don't like CW, I suggest you do not use it, but DO NOT flame me because I happen to like it. This is primarily for CW ops, so if you are not a CW op I suggest you simply skip this post.
Ok guys, what's up with didadidadidah? What ever happened to dadidididah? Or, better yet, just a "double pause" between sentences (ie: twice the length of time of a pause between words). Hopefully we have enough smarts to figure that the "double pause" means a new sentence is coming up!
Seems to me this didadidadidah stuff is becoming more and more prevalent. The other day I had an otherwise enjoyable QSO where the other station spent roughly 30% of his transmissions sending periods, didadidadidah. UR SIG IS 599 didadidadidah. NAME IS BOB didadidadidah. QTH IS PODUNK didadidadidah. RIG IS ICxxx didadidadidah. ANT IS VERT didadidadidah, ad-nauseam! When I mentioned that he sure seemed to be using a lot of periods, his response was didadit didadidadidah !!
I realize keyboard types do this because they are typing a period on the keyboard, but why can't they ALSO skip the period? When did this practice become so commonplace?
If that ain't enough to start a flame war, try this one on: How many of you know what this means? Nag 5ere is 6o6? (Hint: if you use a bug, it's a no brainer!)
BRING IT ON!!!
de Larry
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What’s up with didadidadidah ?
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by OLDFART13 on August 29, 2004
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I haven't noticed this problem. I have noticed that the ARRL bulletins use the period quit a bit but I have never been bothered by it. I use dahditditditdah but not at the end of every sentence.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NI0C on September 5, 2004
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I agree with you that sending excessive periods or double dashes on CW is equivalent to saying too many "uhs" and "ums" when speaking.
More serious. though is the spacing problem and general sloppiness you bring up (such as sending "nag" for "name"). I recall a friend of mine years ago who called me on the phone and said he heard a lot of "YH" prefixes on 20 mteres, and wanted to know what country that was. I laughed and told him those were K6's in California!
I suspect that many ops don't know what good code sounds like. A good way to "calibrate" oneself, so to speak, is to listen to W1AW code practice once in a while. I still do this, even though I learned the code 45 years ago.
73 de Chuck NI0C
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by AE1X on September 5, 2004
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I agree. Listening to W1AW is important even for those of us with a lot of experience. We all need to brush up after long periods of silence.
I love Radio Telegraphy. It's a true challenge to learn a new language and learn to express oneself in it on the air. I love it because it is different than the other everyday stuff I do.
Ken
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K5BGB on September 5, 2004
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Larry:
Your little brain teaser is indeed easy for someone like myself who has been a cw op since 1955. It's "name is Bob" sent by someone who fails to use enough space between the dots and dashes and adds a few extra dots for a good measure! That kind of cw was much more common in bug days, but I still hear it today in the age of paddles and keyers.
Cheers...73,
Rod
K5BGB
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W5HTW on September 5, 2004
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Yep, the changes in CW have been coming along for a while (probably like the changes in fone as well.) A couple of reasons come to my mind. One is today's careless method of doing everything or anything. On my web site is an article I wrote called "Close Enough is NOT Good Enough." We use 'there' for 'their', 'here' for 'hear' and most excruciating of all to me, 'your' for 'you're.' And we think it is fine. Not only that, we resent being corrected as we think 'close enough is good enough. ' So if we spell B with a dah and four or five dits, so what? It's 'close enough.' If we spell 'cat' as 'kat', so what? It's close enough. I think we live in the Close Enough age. And it is extremely aggravating to those of us who feel accuracy is as important as quantity, who grew up being graded on being correct, not just close enough.
The other aspect may be that in the mid-days of ham radio, what I call the "golden era' a good many hams had military experience, or were taught code by hams with military experience, as I was. In the military CW operations, the point was to get an accuracte message across, not just be 'close enough.' So they were taught code in radio school, and they learned it the right way. Later, out of the military, they taught code to new hams using the techniques, and seeking the sound, they had learned.
But I really think the 'Close enough is good enough' is the primary reason. If we got 'near' what we wanted to say, then that's all we have to do. We see that attitude in speech, definitely in writing. Heck, look at the classified ads in any major newspaper and see how many spelling and wording mistakes you can find in a single column. You will be surprised at how this professional publication allows "close enough" to be their practice.
Many of the hams who are sending 6o6 for Bob, or 5ih for 'his', don't want to be corrected. They don't want to be told they aren't doing it right. Close enough works for them.
It doesn't work for me! Not in English, not in work, and not in code.
Ed
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KW4N on September 5, 2004
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It's the dead giveaway "body language" of the less-than-fully competent operator.
Nervous novices that are gaining in competence stall since they may fear the loss of the contact.
Excellent operators don't waste time. They also don't send a couple of dit's everytime a mistake is made because he recognizes that the operator at the other end knows an error was made. Only a short pause is required.
de KW4N
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N5XM on September 5, 2004
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I've wondered about this. I've only been doing CW for 6 years and thought maybe it was a prosign from the railroad I didn't know about, but it sure puzzled me. I do agree there are way too many sloppy fists out there, and Ed, you are right on the money again, as usual. I want to say it was Otis Redding who did the old R&B song, "99 1/2% won't do".
I guess it doesn't mean as much to some as it does to us. I want to be the best CW op I can be for all the great Hams that came before me. I owe it to them and to the hobby. CW is an art form to me, and I don't understand why anyone would want to do less than their best. I guess I'm just lucky in the sense that I have been a musician for 35 years and have perfect pitch and great timing from music. I have wonderful hands from helping do surgery for 30 years, so at least I have some tools to work with. I've been lucky, but I've worked very hard. The ones that half-a** it really bother me, and I wish they had to copy themselves. I don't mind the newbies, 'cause you can tell the ones that are working hard to develop their skills. Three cheers for CW!
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N0XE on September 5, 2004
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Not to mention the lack of DE, and the slant bar(dadididadit) for portable operations (see it all the time now), drives me crazy, hear CQ and then just the call, no 'DE?? When I was a Novice I was taught that if you wanted to call a certain state or country you would call CQ and the state or DX you wanted to contact so no other stations would call you, then send DE and your call, now when I hear just a CQ and then followed by the call with no DE, then I think some ham is calling just one station in fact since it is his own call it is like he is calling himself, hi, OK yeah I know if I listen long enough and hear no other call then I should take it that he is just shortning his time on the key, but to learn and use CW for years and to go as the book teaches as well, then have these changes creep in, makes it harder to maintain tradition and good cw practice. In QSO it can be bad as well to not use DE and the slant bar it as there are times that stations, especially visitors in DX land may have to use two calls (assigned and US Call) depending on the rules of the country and all of a sudden, a typical exchange can can be up to three calls in a row with no break, talk about being confusing at times when a simple slash bar and proper DE makes it very clear what is going on. , I know a lot of ops think it saves time and most CW ops should get it, but it counters what has been taught for years and has been a tradition, also the use of many non standard abreviations, seems like a lot of ops invent them as they go and expect every ham to understand what they are saying, maybe at 10 WPM you might figure it out, but clicking along at 30 plus is another matter. I know we can blame a lot of this on the keyboard as sometimes we forget typing a letter and sending CW is not necessariy the same thing, I also see a bunch of 100 WPM code being sent via keyboard and computer copy, guess it is ok for those who want to fool with that, but seems to take the magic out of the mode for me when you let machines do it all. 73 N0XE
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N0XE on September 5, 2004
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Not to mention the lack of DE, and the slant bar(dadididadit) for portable operations (see it all the time now), drives me crazy, hear CQ and then just the call, no 'DE?? When I was a Novice I was taught that if you wanted to call a certain state or country you would call CQ and the state or DX you wanted to contact so no other stations would call you, then send DE and your call, now when I hear just a CQ and then followed by the call with no DE, then I think some ham is calling just one station in fact since it is his own call it is like he is calling himself, hi, OK yeah I know if I listen long enough and hear no other call then I should take it that he is just shortning his time on the key, but to learn and use CW for years and to go as the book teaches as well, then have these changes creep in, makes it harder to maintain tradition and good cw practice. In QSO it can be bad as well to not use DE and the slant bar it as there are times that stations, especially visitors in DX land may have to use two calls (assigned and US Call) depending on the rules of the country and all of a sudden, a typical exchange can can be up to three calls in a row with no break, talk about being confusing at times when a simple slant bar and proper DE makes it very clear what is going on. , I know a lot of ops think it saves time and most CW ops should get it, but it counters what has been taught for years and has been a tradition, also the use of many non standard abreviations, seems like a lot of ops invent them as they go and expect every ham to understand what they are saying, maybe at 10 WPM you might figure it out, but clicking along at 30 plus is another matter. I know we can blame a lot of this on the keyboard as sometimes we forget typing a letter and sending CW is not necessarily the same thing, I also see a bunch of 100 WPM code being sent via keyboard and computer copy, guess it is ok for those who want to fool with that, but seems to take the magic out of the mode for me when you let machines do it all. 73 N0XE
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W4PRT on September 5, 2004
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Well, you are right. There are a lot of folks sending that. The gentleman that taught me, said to use dahditditdah, (an x) at the end. That confused folks and a few said to use dahditditditdah (BT). Seeing that some of you all here used the X, I wonder what is more universally accepted?
73,
Pete
(W4PRT)
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K0EWS on September 5, 2004
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No doubt that it comes from the keyboard keyers and computers, and that's fine, I occasionally use a keyboard myself. However, it's just as easy to use the dahdidididah (BT) prosign on a keyboard as it is to use a period. Most keyboards and computer programs have this prosign programed in to the = key or the - key; at least in the programs that I have used. That being said, it doesn't bother me too much. My pet peave is for the ops who run-on every letter and don't separate their words! That one really gets me more than any other operating habit.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KB1LKR on September 5, 2004
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As one who's learning code (it took me a few moments to figure out 6o6, but w/ the bug reference it clicked after a moment) these discussions are great. Comments on proper use of punctuation (or lack thereof), didididididididi for formaal message traffic only, conventions for calling CQ, common abbreviations, proper prosign use, etc.
It is one thing to learn the sound of the letters (I have half down, sort of, (g & numbers are yet to come one yet so "Nag 5ere" took a bit of thought), but it's another to know proper (traditional?) operating style/protocol, so it is good for me to be thinking about it even if I have a while to go before I need to use it.
It also answers one of my questions about bugs -- namely that they must be a bit of a trick to use, a extra or missed dit (especially at high speeds) seemingly being a hazard, plus the need to readjust for significant speed changes, though I can see they must have been a great invention in their day over the straight key for professional use, and Ican see where they could be fun for a change of pace from a paddle and keyer.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K5UJ on September 5, 2004
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I end my sentences with a period (full stop) because that's the ending punctuation for a sentence, in Western languages. This is after the preliminaries (name, qth, rst) are out of the way. _..._ is used by me to communicate a change in topic. So the two have different functions and mean different things and are not interchangeable to me.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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CW is also our first love (since 1962) and I use it like others do because it's FUN!!!
But getting to the subject at hand here I'll either use BT or a slightly longer pause instead of using the period sign. CW is all about brevity and abbreviations!!!
All of us can figure out where either the comma or period should be anyway without sending them. Other than using the (?) nothing else is really necessary!!!
73 es SK
Jim/ee
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N5IVZ on September 5, 2004
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i love cw as well, but hey, they are on the cw bands and that is good!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by AB0KD on September 5, 2004
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I do not have a problem with any of the correct prosigns, just use them correctly. If I did not send error at one point during my 13wpm test in 1977, I have a feeling that I would not have passed. Making up your own, or using incorrect, prosigns does not help the guy at the other end. This is especially the case in conjuction with the following issue.
My current issue with CW is the number of sloppy fists that are on the air. Running letters together and excessive swing greatly increases the difficulty in copying the message.
As for the close is good enough syndrome, partial credit, or payment, is not given when the bridge falls down.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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What I really object to is the "EXTRA-LITES" cluttering up our high-speed Gen/Adv. CW portions with their 5WPM!!! :-)))
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by X-WB1AUW on September 5, 2004
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Looks like the hallmark of an inexperienced op using a computer key board to send CW.
My favorite is receiving a perfectly sent personal history that runs over 10 minutes.
At least they are trying CW!
After all, even if they are a General or Extra, they are still novice CW ops! And, many are novice HF ops.
If they were in a Novice sub-band, would we be more patient and less critical?
I respect anyone pursuing the art of CW.
If I could have gotten my extra with just 5 WPM, I don’t think I would have ever discovered the joy, and musicality of CW.
Op Bob hr Tucson AZ TU Q CU 73 de AE7G K
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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Apparently one person did'nt see the :-))) (smiley-face) in my last post!!! It's about TONGUE-IN-CHEEK!
Sheeesssh!
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA5VFA on September 5, 2004
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NN6EE:
I can live with the fact that the so-called 'extra-lites' and their slow CW is on the low end of the band. That tells me that CW is still alive and kicking and that's good, period.
As for me, I love CW, I'm lousy at it, 20WPM is my max, but I haven't had anyone gripe at me about it. And this is after 37 years on the air.
Lighten up, help these guys along and they'll build their speed. A condescending attitude will only convince them to give it up, go back to SSB, and bitch about the old fa*ts on the low end of the band.
Be an Elmer, not a Grinch.
Ron WA5VFA
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N8UZE on September 5, 2004
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These days new CW ops are generally going to end up in the General portion of the band as activity in the Novice portions is way down. You can call CQ forever in the Novice segments and not get an answer unless you happen to stumble on one of the FISTS novice calling frequencies.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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Ron,
I'll post it one more time so even you can understand it!!!
*************************************************8
RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ? Reply
by NN6EE on September 5, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Apparently one person did'nt see the :-))) (smiley-face) in my last post!!! It's about TONGUE-IN-CHEEK!
Sheeesssh!
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 5, 2004
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What can I say after 66 years of continuous waves.
P.S. ARRL says no periods should be used that the DAH DIT DIT DIT DAH should be used for sentence separation.
I operate with the before WW2 and the Military procedures. U.S. Army Signal Fixed Station Radio Operator spec number 777. Fort Monmouth, N. J., 35 wpm on a mill.
Brag, brag, brag, can't help it as from the old school.
.:
dit
DAH should be used for sentence separation.
I operate with the before WW2 and the Military procedures.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 5, 2004
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Sorry about this long delay. My internet shut down.
.:
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K8XF on September 5, 2004
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Excellent subject matter - I think many cw ops forget that this mode is supposed to use a lot of abbreviations. I always run into ops that use the following:
my name is ----- how abt this ---opr Mike.....
Also, pls use the 3x3 cq method-
CQ CQ CQ DE K8XF K8XF K8XF (then repeat)
Not - cq cq cq cq cq cq cq cq de k8 -- then k
Who taught you how to cq?
73
Mike, K8XF
ex Seagoing Ships Radio Officer
VIVA CW
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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No kidding?
I mentioned (BT) in a earlier post!
Jim/ee
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W3DCG on September 5, 2004
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Ha. You know, I'm glad you mention this, as sometimes, when I've been working 11 hours, come home, work 2 more hours, am beat, but still jonesing for a CWFix, I get on, thoughts aren't coming like I wished, I find myself sending too many double dashes.
I generally reserve them for use in a manner to indicate change of subject, like carriage return, <ENTER>, or to indicate a new paragraph. Sometimes I use it too much.
I've ssen Old Timers use it like carriage return, in the manner that old RTTY machines keep sending that, to indicate pause- with more to follow, stand by.
This may be construed as irritating, and generally I agree that the over-use of anything may cause nausea.
There is one case in which I appreciate it's over-use.
That is under poor conditions, where fading is most of the QSO, strength is weak, interference from other stations or just plain noise, or both, is occuring.
In this case, when the other station is such difficult copy, I do appreciate them sending dahdidididah dahdidididah, several times while they are thought gathering, so that I know they are still with rig in transmit mode.
Other than this appreciation, over use can be too much, especially at speeds of under 25 wpm, and when it is solid, good copy or better. At higher speeds, it does not much matter, unless say, it's two people or more, going at it with Ten Tec set at no delay Fast QSK (ultra full break in), at moderately high speed or faster, then there really is no need to send that you are pausing, for if you hear no sound, they can hear each other and visa versa. Thereby rendering the double dash completely obsolete. However that does not mean,
Everyone running a Ten Tec or equivalent, should not ever have the opportunity to use = as a carriage return, I know personally on 40m, one of my most frequented watering holes- I rarely dial in zero delay TX/RX switching, because the band noise is irritating to have to listen to between characters, unless the other guy is 20 over S9, etc.
No flame here, but plausable explaination for when I think sending lots of double-dashes, = or //, is a good idea.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA3SLN on September 5, 2004
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Maybe if WE all spent more time on the air instead on
the computer we wouldn't have all these problems.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W4TYU on September 5, 2004
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I also was taught CW at Scott Field by hams or former professional operators. MOS 760 with service in the AACS, stationed in the Middle East.
Problem is that there has been no real criticism of sending. The former military operators remember the words from the CHOP (chief operator) when a message was blown by poor sending and it had to be ciphered again in another code and resent.
An X is used because as I recall the "MILLS" did not have a period on the keyboard. They were all uppercase.
Also the cryptographic devices could not encode punctuation marks.
All CW operators should occasionly use a tape recorder to listen to their sending. Most of us would dive under the table in shame after the first session.
I also deplore the general use of squeeze keys. They for the less experienced operator tend to assist in running every thing together. A good operator can and does handle them well but it takes a lot of practice to do so.
By the way I do not class myself as a good operator but only a competent one
Ole man JEAN W4TYU
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
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W3DCG,
It's hard to imagine that anyone who uses a computer and interface to generate/transmit and receive CW signals could class themselves as REAL CW operators!!!
And of course there will be a few "Technies" out here who will come back saying "Who cares it's still using that mode!" Well sorry Boys NO it's not the same thing!!! CW is a ART & Skill using either a straight-key or Iambic paddle and those of us who have it are DEFINITELY PROUD OF IT!
Jim/ee
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NY7Q on September 5, 2004
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Look, if you can't send CW correctly, you are nothing more than a CW GIRLY BOY/MANLY GIRL. Another thing folks don't do is use EEEEEEEE and go back to the last correct word...what's up with that????
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K4JF on September 5, 2004
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Eight dits mean "error". That is a prosign learned early on by some of us (who aren't perfect).
Another irritation is the habit of some hams using "ES" in writing, on PSK31, and QSLs and online when they mean "and". "Ditdididit" is NOT "ES", it is "&" (the ampersand). When writing or typing, use the ampersand, not "ES" which is meaningless.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N0YPB on September 5, 2004
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I understand where the author is coming from. I recieved my license in 1993 via a public school radio program. When they taught me code (via ARRL curriculum) didadidadida was supposed to used for periods. I would suggest pointing fingers at our ARRL education program instead of inexperienced operators. They are only doing what they were taught. As a side note I hope the older amatuer radio community knows how frustrating it is for a new cw op to attempt qso's with someone who uses a cw vernacular that they aren't used to. Be patient with them and help them along. Its what the hobby is about. 73 Jared N0YPB
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W5HTW on September 5, 2004
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Regarding the 8 E's. That came from a time when hams used standard procedure that mimicked the military, for we were, Communications Reservists (my term.) That's no longer true. However, the proper procedure was a formal one, used in traffic handling. As such, it was something everyone would understand.
Those days are gone. Even if we WERE standardized, the military no longer needs backup communications people, especially in CW operations! Consequently the formal language of military and ham CW has been diluted by the "easy way." Almost no-one uses the EEEEEEEE prosign anymore. In military or government communications it was even used in RTTY to indicate an error, or a 'busted' (not completed) message. Maybe it still is? But I haven't heard it on the ham bands in a while.
Likewise BT. Yes, the ARRL did promote the use of BT in place of a period, and a good many hams used that. It was not, though, used as such in mil/gov traffic. IN that use, it was to mean "beginning of text" or "ending of text" and it both preceded and followed the body of a message.
Hams developed the habit, encouraged by the ARRL I believe, of sending "BT" as a sort of "I'm still here and trying to think of something to say" message. It's pretty common. Another common prosign used for the same thing is the one that actually means "understood" but is used as a 'fill' in the thought process. That is the prosign SN. In fact I notice it is also used as a "my turn to start talking" prosign, kind of like the "uh" in VOX SSB. Something to turn on the semi-break-in system.
The on-air CW language is changing, no doubt about it. While I miss some of the rigid formatting from years ago (such as the use of DE) I recognize that we really don't have to comply with such strict measures as we aren't training for reserve status! Still, I would rather we did it the right way, as, the more dilution that occurs, the less we are actually able to communicate, as we are speaking different languages.
Ed
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KC9FQM on September 5, 2004
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If that ain't enough to start a flame war, try this one on: How many of you know what this means? Nag 5ere is 6o6? (Hint: if you use a bug, it's a no brainer!)
+++
I have never yet been on CW, but I have future aspirations. WA9CMI was issued to me in about 1962 as a result of a "real" test for General in front of a "real" FCC examiner in Anchorage, Alaska and I passed 13 wpm. I never was on the air. I have taken the current set of tests and have the call AB9IW and Extra Priveleges. All I have done so far as a Ham is a little with a Yaesu 5XR. But back in the middle of the last century I did a little CW while in Air Force Comm Officer school. Not enought o brag about, but enough to say I have sent and received successfully at a very slow speed.
Anyway, what you are quizzing us on looks like an attempt to say "Name here is Bob". (with unfortunate spacing)
Your ploblem with the periods doesn't look to be nearly as serious as this other one.
Gene ("name here" left as undestood and not needed")
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by X-WB1AUW on September 5, 2004
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Nag 5ere is 6o6? (Hint: if you use a bug, it's a no brainer!
I venture to say that anyone who was a Novice can decipher that as name here is Bob.
Bob
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KC8VWM on September 6, 2004
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"Maybe if WE all spent more time on the air instead on
the computer we wouldn't have all these problems."
The trouble here is that our computers are connected to our radios.
Op Charles hr Columbus OH 73 de KC8VWM 73 didadidadidah.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KK4ZY on September 6, 2004
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RE: W1AW code practice. I admit that I am not much of a CW op, having had only one QSO on CW since I got my license (nearly 20 years ago, my, how time flies!), but I do listen on the bands occasionally so I can get some practice copying. One evening I was tuning around looking for some good CW to listen to. I tried probably two or three signals in succession, and was having a heck of a time copying. "Well, I guess I just need more practice, I guess", I said to myself. Then I tuned up a couple of Khz more, heard a good strong, stable signal and started copying. Wow! I was copying 100%! What the heck happened here? I copied to the end of the transmission. Well, you probably guessed it by now. It was an ARRL code practice transmission, with Perfect Spacing all the way. Sure makes a difference! I'll remember to do a lot of practice sending before I try to get on CW.
The one QSO I had was checking into a local 10 meter net we had in the little town where I lived in North Carolina years ago. The net was phone, but I had this radio captured from Desert Storm, and it would only transmit CW, so I fired it up and checked in. One of my buds in the net came back to me instantly on CW, and we had a good time, and of course he was testing me, too. Every time he came back, he increased his speed by about two or three words per minute. We started out about 10 wpm, but by the time the wire broke on my jury rigged key cable into that Iraqi manpack rig, he must have been pushing 20, and would have left me behind for sure, but I had to sign off using the clip leads to send the last bit of the transmission. (Sending code by tapping two wires together will work. It's just not a lot of fun!)
73
Ed
Formerly: N4OEXDA1ZYAG4RT
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K3TIN on September 6, 2004
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I must say I am truly impressed! The comments to this post ALL appeared to be well "thought out" and well articulated. Missing are the "bomb throwers", name callers, mudslingers, etc.
Thank you! Y'all got class !!
Yet ANOTHER reason I like CW operators !!
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA6ES on September 6, 2004
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OK I must admit that I am a new extra, getting it in 1998 but, sending code has to be fun and like your post sort of mentions. When I got my extra I thought I used the prosigns proper but as time went on other operators hinted on the correct way. Like I said cw is fun and has a melodious ring to it. PRACTICE PRACTICE AND PRACTICE.
By the way good post
Didadidadidah :-)
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KB6NU on September 6, 2004
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I haven't run into operators overusing the period prosign very often. I have more often worked "HAG 5ERE 6O6" type operators, but if an operator is making such errors nearly every other character, I quickly end the contact and move on. What **really** bugs me, though, is when the other operator repeats exactly what I just sent before continuing the conversation.
Is there any real solution to this problem? Should we have something similar to ARRL OOs for operating procedure? And even more basic to this discussion, who's to set the standards for proper operating procedure?
73, Dan KB6NU
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W3DCG on September 6, 2004
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NN6EE,
I'm not sure if I'm proud of it. Being a "real CW Operator..." I find my addiction to it sometimes bordering on an affliction. But I do try, and make the attempt at placeing my best FIST forward every time.
Very cool callsign there. Love it.
dahdit dahdit dahdidididit dit dit.
I once almost applied take nn9nnn because of cadence and rhythm.
I'm not sure I quite catch your drift in your response.
When I say carriage return, or
<enter>, I mean the equivalent of that sent via normal means- meaning key, bug, or paddle.
"CWFix" is no code reading program I have ever heard of, it is run together as my invented word to mean my
CW FIX.
There are many "real" CW operators I have encountered who use keyboards, because it is better for them, they wished they did not, but- either an accident happened, or normal wear and tear that happens to all as we age.
If one enjoys QRQ, and you can hear these types, they loose me past 40wpm, they send with keyboard but I'm certain they head copy. Some even use paddles up there in the ether of QRQ.
But last night I had a 1 hour 40 minute or longer QSO with the gent who set the world QRP distance record, we were both running 2W at about 23 wpm, nice and slow, but good for conditions given fading- dahdidididah was used quite often in series, as if it were a carriage return, sent manually while gathering thoughts. We were both using QSK, both Ten Tec rigs, and it was good to know I could have broken in during those pauses in thought while he was sending double-dashes.
So over use of the double dash in this case it was not, rather it was appreciated, like I mentioned before,
but- perhaps you misread something I may have stated up there, I realize now that-
duh- I have. This article is about over using the PERIOD, not the double dash!
HA!
hi hi.
72. I mean 73?
Darin, W3DCG.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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Darin,
I applied for the NN6EE vanity call-sign because it was the closest one I could get that approached my Uncle's old call when he was alive and that was W6EE.
As long as the spacing is proper no one seems to mess it up like say hearing C6I instead!!! :-)))
73 es(&) SK
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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K6EE Birthday: 07 Aug 1914
Keep watch, you may have a chance.
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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TH,
Gee I guess so, seeing he was born at the beginning of "The War to End ALL WARS!!!"
Phewwwww!!!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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W6EE
Birthday: 25 Aug 1937
Too long to wait.
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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Yah!
I know the guy who has it (now) and he lives over in San Francisco!!!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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I got my call from George Hitt who lived in Downey. He moved to w7 land and got the call W7SM. Guess he passed on as his W7SM call is now a club call. George was a ssb opr and had a qso with him and when he left for W7 land I got his call. Cost me $20.00, not a vanity call. I was W7 at that time.
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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Very interesting!
My Uncle was (circa 1933) W6IBD, whose call I also had in 1996 until 2001 when I got EE. But anyway my uncle's next call was K6NA, but then he TRADED that call to W6EE who ended up with K6NA even before the "Vanity" program!!! So I guess if you had connections/friends in high places like the FCC you could do that!!! Everything was LEGIT/above-board I might add!!!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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The W6IBD that I remember, his name was Warren and lived in Pasadena, CA. Could be the same chap.
That was back in the 60's.
The FCC treated us hams as precious jewels and had a lot of respect for us. We had the same for them. Guess the past is gone forever and it sure does not seem like the good old days when a person tunes in the side winders. CW is still the nice mode.
.:
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N8BOA on September 6, 2004
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I am likly to wait too long between sentances anyway at least they are on the air with CW.. maybe the lack of true novice ticket is a problem.. I say the old novice bands shold be open for the techs ie have at it an enjoy no code test needed go for it..The FCC/ARRL and us have nothing but to gain by simply saying no code test for the novice bands sure they would have some sloppy fist but I think that would be music to our ears to here people lerning code again what the heck no one is using the old bands anyway
Sean
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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YES!!! TH you're absolutely correct!!!
I'm his Nephew!!!
His calls were:
W6IBD-1933 to 1954
K2VSJ (New Jersey resident) from 1954 to 1958
Re-verted back to W6IBD in 1958
K6NA-1967 to 1970 (or there abouts!)
W6EE-1970 until his demise in June of 1989!!!
My own calls from 1962:
WN6BBC
WB6BBC
KB6OH
W6IBD
and NOW happy with NN6EE (present)!!!
I've been licensed since:1962
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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You certainly have fond memories of a great fellow ham.
Just think of what Warren went through in the days of 1933 to get his ham ticket. There is a man who has brought ham radio to many of today as well as many of the other old timers. I am sure all the old timers, I am talking of the pre-war hams of what they have done to preserve, what is now called a hobby.
I for one will not forget the old timers and that is including Warren, what they have done for us. We thank them.
Happy to have you continue with his call and the fond memories.
Remember, the the old timers were self taught ham operators and we were not much for elmers, so give us a little credit. HI!
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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Just outta curiousity "TH" did you know a few other notable DXers in the L.A basin like Wendell/W6FSJ or W6RR/Gordon Marshall (Marshall Steel Industries) or maybe even Don Wallace/W6AM??? They were all family friends in earlier times!!!
Jim/ee
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N2JDQ on September 6, 2004
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Hello,
Ive been a semi-avid CW-op from my begining 1988.
Im a poor speller, altho I pride myself on my sending abilities. Misspelled or not. I dont use a keyboard.. usually a Paddle or straight key. There is a lot of reasons why one may send poorly beyond spelling..
Mobile Operations..Nerves (Lots of timid ops out there), age of operator no not all people that are 70 cant send.. but some gents may not want to use a keyboard.. and want to use old bug/key.. whatever.
As far as just plain ole sloppy sending.. call me crazy.. but I practice my sending more than my recieving. While in the shack.. I find myself often taking an article out of some magizine.. and sending it on my keyer ( off air of course ) and unless I send 100% perfect.. I start article all over again.
I think that practicing sending should be a no-brainer. If I cant understand what ur saying.. Im not going to talk to you. If ur a lil messy but I can tell ur trying hard.. I'll contact you.
Last but not least.. I'll be the 1st to admit that when I first got on the air.. I wanted to be an instant 20wpm'er, got me into plenty of trouble.. calling cq de N2JDQ k @ 25 wpm perfectly.. then the qso goes to hell in hand basket when im trying to copy that fast.. if I was to make any suguestions at all they would be this..
A) Send no faster that you can copy
B) If you cant send the alphabet, properly spaced and #'s 0-9 2x in a row with no mistakes.. mabey you should take the 20 minutes free time u have and practice instead of being on the air.
C) If your sending abailities are compromized by health or disability - there is NO SHAME in using operating aids weather computer or what ever.
Im not flaming anyone.. and if carefully read my post will make this 100% obvious, just a few tips that may help things.
-Steve Raas
N2JDQ
k
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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Right-On Steve,
Though of course you properly injected that "caveat" but that does'nt mean that some of the "BOYS" won't take it out of context which I might add they "Invariably DO!!!" But who gives a "Rat's Putuddy" anyway as it's ONLY a HOBBY!!! CW keeps the Ol'mind NIMBLE as well as the wrist!!! So whatever "NO-CODE-INTERNATIONAL" says they DON'T have a frigg'n clue!!!
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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Not too much to remember of Wendell/W6FSJ, but vague on W6RR/Gordon Marshall. Don Wallace/W6AM was the big time DX'er of my time. Lot of power for those days and great ex-commercial antennas. Kept close watch over him. I was not a dx'er, but a rag chewer.
DX was different and a DX contact may have to wait 15 to 20 minutes to make our own contact. Was gentleman like back then and no problem waiting for the contact. Not cut throat like it is today.
Search and seize was our dx contacts, whereby we tune, tune and tune until we heard the dx. No big pileups.
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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AH YES OB!!!
It now takes "Mega-Watts" to be on top of the pile-up, and if you're a "smaller-fish" like I am with a mediocre yagi antenna height then you have to bat your "BRAINS" out to maybe work'em!!! But by gum I'm always in the fray come "Hell or High-water" because that's the nature of the DX-Beast!!!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N2OBY on September 6, 2004
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<<If we spell 'cat' as 'kat', so what? It's close enough. >>
You mean like using "fone" instead of "phone"? Sorry, but I couldn't resist... ;-)
I agree with you about the state of things today.
73,
Ken N2OBY
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 6, 2004
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I don't get it KEN!!!
***************************************RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ? Reply
by N2OBY on September 6, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<If we spell 'cat' as 'kat', so what? It's close enough. >>
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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N2JDQ
Should you have a problem spelling, it can be made much easier for you. Try sending all of your words by leaving out all the vowels. There are many words that you can use such as many hard ones to spell. Ham radio is to leave out the vowels and you will find many words that will fit the purpose. Use WL for will, use u for you, use ur for your and many more.
Ok om, mni tnx fer the fb sig rept. ur sigs 579 hr in ca. hpe tt we can hve antr fb qso agn in the nr future. 73, gn bcnu agn. This is an example.
Should you have a problem with some operators to complete a word, well this is what he is doing.
I was taught that to copy faster than you can send is the real issue. Not to brag, but the honest truth, I can send 60 wpm on the paddle and the keyer and copy 70 wpm. Of course 66 years of cw is the trick. I am not the only one as there are many more than can outdo me. Age is not the problem, but practice is. When you are not transmitting in a contact, try to copy the fast operators even if you get one word now and then.
Best I can tell you and the rest is up to you.
.:
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NC2W on September 6, 2004
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Amazingly, I was taught to send code this way (in 1984).
I do it out of habit. I have tried to change over to a longer pause. Some guys will 'break in' reply when the pause seems too long though.
EWT
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W6TH on September 6, 2004
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Sorry. This was also meant for Ken N2OBY.
.:
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W5HTW on September 7, 2004
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N2OBY .. Yeah, "fone" was used in ham radio for gobs of years, since there was no need to differentiate between AM and SSB and FM. Everyone was on AM. "Fone" was the CW shortcut to "phone." I've mostly broken that habit, but once in a great while it slips out. However I DO know how to spell phone.
Ed
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA2JJH on September 7, 2004
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We all were new at some time. I admit to using double dash much when I was a novice.
The di-hah ops must be like the FONZE from Happy days. AAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA2JJH on September 7, 2004
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dID YOU GUYS EVER DO THIS ONE. I did when I was a novice. If I copied the dude 100% I Wound send 3 V's as fast as I could pound a J-38. I would do this instead of solid copy.
The Novice years were those of real excitement for me.
I guess di-dah could be over used. During my first ""solo" (NO ELMER to egg me on) CW contacts. I would send up to 4 double dashes in a row. I was nervous.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA2JJH on September 7, 2004
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I am just glad that Hams really care about code.
So I guess some are using period when a double dash is more accepted.
Long live CW! What ever your dialect is!
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N2LJD on September 7, 2004
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I was taught code by the US Coast Guard (18wpm to qualify as RM3, 25wpm to promote to RM2, informal requirement to qualify for a 'speed key' aka bug at 30wpm for RM1). Our procedures were a mix of military and "merchie" (merchant mariner), but were quite strict. Makes sense when handling international, 'foreign' language traffic from merchies of all nations and dealing with Search and Rescue. IIRC we used "X" to break sentences in formal traffic, double pause for conversations (incidentally, I didn't know about W1AW back in 1980, used to copy the news broadcasts from KPH (25 wpm) to practice. I listen to W1AW all I can now). Although we were taught lots of punctuation ( . : ; / ? , ( ) ) except for slant bar and question mark, I don't recall using them much, if at all.
As I noted in my profile, I like CW DX because different languages aren't a barrier - BUT - that's only if everyone dances to the same tune. If everyone is using their own procedures rather than internationally understood and accepted procedures (i.e. 3x3 calling, prosigns such as k, kn, ar, sk (which I learned as va!), etc. the 'universality' of The Code breaks down.
Personally, I've been lucky in that the QSOs I've had to date (and I just got back into radio last year (2003), after a 20 year hiatus) have been under good to excellent conditions and the gents (no xyl's so far :-( ) have been better ops than I, so the conversations have flowed without excessive pauses. I was mildly confused by some using "BT" and some using "X", while W1AW uses "." but I sorted it out. As long as keyboards continue to 'take over' as the sending 'hardware' of choice, "." is likely to continue in vogue. 'course, can always ask other op to ease up on periods or terminate the qso if it's too distracting...
I also am thrilled that a local fellow ham who was using keyboard to send and computer to decode saw me with my ear and my iambic paddle/straight key combo (paddle for 15+, straight key for slower) and dedicated himself to hand sending and ear copy and is now faster than I! I can only dream of copying 70+wpm like W6TH...
Couple of others for ya: dahdidahdahdit and dahdidahdahdidah (I used them a lot in this post).
Anywho, my proverbial 2 cents worth.
73
Joe
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by W0OOW on September 7, 2004
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HHHhhhmmmmm I have noticed that persons that are faster tend to spell out words more and also use periods. How about the overuse of BK? What ever happened to "name?" Another flame war :) By the way, I got a kick out of your "Nag 5ere is 6o6" Boy does that bring back memories :)
73,
Steve
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W0FM on September 7, 2004
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I like the concept of eliminating unnecessary punctuation whenever it is not required to get the message across. I think I learned that in 1962, a few months after getting my Novice. I quickly realized that if I omitted the period in St.Louis, folks still KNEW that my QTH was St Louis! Same goes for the comma between your QTH's city and state! (He says, adding several unnecessary exclamation points!!)
73,
Terry WØFM
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by N3AIU on September 7, 2004
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I've seen example FCC code tests, which typically consist of standard QSOs. But, these "standard" QSOs use periods, not dashes. That may be the main reason we're starting to hear periods on the air more and more.
I never use periods. As a matter of fact, I never use commas either, even between city and state. And yes, I do know how to send them (grin). I have nothing against punctuation marks, but I think that my CW life is made easier by not using them.
Personally, I don't care if hams use periods more and more. But, if some of you purists out there (not meant as an insult) want to preserve this bit of ham radio tradition, I suggest:
1) Get the FCC code tests changed
2) Use dashes on the air
73, Nick N3AIU
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WB2WIK on September 7, 2004
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Punctuation is annoying unless absolutely necessary, like possibly a decimal point.
Seems like a lot of newer hams -- and I'm not complaining, because at least they are *trying* CW! -- use such poor format that I find myself asking questions they should've answered in the first transmission.
I answer CQs and get: "My name is Joe. Your signal is 599. So BK to you." Ugh.
I send, "OK Joe - QTH? BK" and get dead silence because they either can't copy my "599" signal or they're awestruck that someone asked a question.
Then there's the guys who don't know what QSB is. When the band folds for the path, doesn't "Sri OM QSB 73 & CUL" do the job any more?
Still, I guess we shouldn't complain because at least the new ops are trying CW and probably having good fun with it. Hopefully the stuff here will encourage, rather than discourage them.
WB2WIK/6
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N4KZ on September 7, 2004
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Interesting posting. I've been operating CW for more than 3 decades but I don't think I've sent very many periods since my novice days in the laste 1960s.
I haven't encountered the problem of excessive period use. I use the BT between thoughts and not even very many of those anymore -- just longer spaces.
But, you know, bad fists on the air are nothing new. I know some will disagree with me on this but there are fewer bugs in use now and that makes for better sent CW, in my view. Not everyone could make a bug send precise code. The same is true of keyers too but it seems it was particularly true of bug use. Plus, a bug permitted a swing whereas keyers don't.
I still recall the W6 I worked several years ago on 30m. The guy was in love with excessive dits. It was very hard to copy him. His call started with .-- -............. and it got worse. My remember my RST was ............... N N.
Run-away dits galore! A swing and too many dits -- a lethal combintion every time.
73, Dave, N4KZ
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N2LJD on September 7, 2004
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"Runaway dits" and "a swing!" Haven't heard those in a long time; and, I was guilty of swinging with my GI key; hopefully I've gotten better.
How about "The Predatory Dit?" That was when ops, at the end of the Silent Period on 500KHz, would drop a single dit on the air; usually to be acknowledged by a dit or dit dit from around the basin (especially prevalent in Pacific around 0300 local).
Ah, 500 MF. I miss it so!
73
LJD
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N2LJD on September 7, 2004
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PS - I didn't engage in Predatory Dits as I was a new op and scared to try!
LJD
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Novice Accent
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by WA5ZNU on September 7, 2004
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Looks like the controversy has been going on for a while:
From "YOUR NOVICE ACCENT And What to Do About It
By Keith S. Williams, W6DTY
---------------------------------------------
|Most novices are currently sending a comma between
|the name of their town and the name of their state.
|This is a waste of time and effort. No punctuation
|is needed there at all. Forget the lengthy,
|time-consuming signal for a period.
|...
|Signals for period and comma were practically never
|heard on the ham bands until the novices got going.
---------------------------------------------
That was from QST, November, 1956.
I also found this part of the article amusing:
---------------------------------------------
|Most operators, for some odd reason, want to know
|the other fellow's name, but that is third in
|importance. Until recent years all hands were
|happy to be called "OM" or "OB" and nobody
|cared what your name was.
---------------------------------------------
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K8FLY on September 8, 2004
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Gees who ever said cw was dieing ought to look at all these posts ha! Well of course cudnt resist adding my 2 cents worth . yes i do use that from time to time but not all the time it is a part of the prosigns & i guess if proper placed like the end of the sentence ive got no problem with that. as for the fellas with poor cw skills , well guess we are all still learning,some old timers got his swing & aint gonna lose it , some fella may be useing a blow pipe to send cw & cant blow a tute but doing the best he can .
or some fella gets on cw after being off for five years & skills are rusted , or a new comer just getting his feet wet & looking for a little pat on the back for his hard work (rightfully earned too) just for being able to be a part of such a fine highly skilled part of ham radio . We for me im happy to have all these guys as fellow cw ops , there doing all they can , for some cw is there life & sending becomes second nature . for some it is just a part time hobby . i have worked many first time novices over the years , what a joy it is !!! take the time & when you hear that poor fella calling cq dont run & hide there just might be a great guy behind that key & a very good reason he sending like that . it might just be me if im working cw mobile ha! (great michigan roads) so ...... is trivial stuff all the best Bill K8fly ...-.-
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RE: Novice Accent
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by K4IQT on September 8, 2004
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Great comment about the Novice accent! When I was first licensed in 1960 my soon-acquired Elmer was Bill Shurance, W8BEW. He had worked for many years on the Great Lakes as a WTO (wireless telegraphy officer), beginning in the spark era. We had cross-town QRP QSO's on 40 CW every Tuesday and Thursday night, and he was a first-class mentor, with our speeds eventually running upwards of 50 wpm (you have to shorten the empty weight arm on your bug for that). Periods were not welcome most of the time, but double-dash was very useful as either a phrase ender or a placeholder.
Whenever I hear someone using lots of punctuation or tripping consistently over their key paddles, I know they will either grow out of it through experience, or they are keyboarders who will soon tire of the slow rate of International Morse Code. Remember, Elmers help speed the process along, too.
Have patience with these folks, and when they start using chat room lingo instead of traditional CW abbreviations you know it's a newbie. Remember when it used to be CB lingo instead of chat room abbreviations? ;o)
This is a great topic and some excellent responses - thanks for putting it up!
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N3AIU on September 8, 2004
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"Your Novice Accent" was a great article. As a matter of fact, my previous posting was based on that article. I still use that advice today, and I think that many could benefit from it. Perhaps someone could write an updated version that doesn't include 75 watts and crystal control (grin).
The ARRL sent me a reprint of the article after I made my first book purchase (in those days, it was easy to tell a novice from his callsign, hihi). I still hand out photocopies of it to young hams.
73, Nick N3AIU (ex WN3YJZ, WA3YJZ)
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by K9FV on September 8, 2004
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A really good series of posts. no real flame wars, no name calling - enough to make a person proud to be a ham!
One point I'd like to raise, On sloppy code: Instead of recording and listening, perhaps send to your computer and allow it to copy your code using one of the code programs like CWget. Then when the program can copy your code, then you have good code!
I personally prefer the code sent with 20/15 (20wpm, but with spacing to give an actual 15wpm overall speed). That bit of extra time between characters gives my poor brain the time to copy better.
73 de Ken
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RE: Code Practice / Self-Review
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by N2LJD on September 8, 2004
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I have an MFJ Pocket Code Reader (MFJ-461). I practice sending to it, as it's hypersensitive. So far, I've acheived about 95% accuracy on paddles with it, and about 80% on straight key, though I still prefer a FB OM from other ops!
73
Joe
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RE: Code Practice / Self-Review
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by NN6EE on September 8, 2004
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Joe!
Using a "UGH!!!" code-reader??? Ah geeezzz! That's pure-unadultrated BLASPHEMY!!! I use the Code-reader called the brain, and sometimes it works pretty good too!!!
:-)))
Jim/ee
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RE: Code Practice / Self-Review
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by W0OOW on September 8, 2004
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Code reader? I don't use one either, but at least he cares about CW!!! Maybe John Muir put is best speaking of trails. Pardon the loose quote, but...
"Would you rather have a thousand pairs of boots on the trail or one chainsaw?" Naw, I am not in favor of code readers either, but.... it is a start AND may show a person cares about bettering their CW.
- this was a response to your tongue in cheek comment - :)
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RE: Code Practice / Self-Review / Codereader
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by N2LJD on September 8, 2004
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NN6EE - :-))))) and hi hi!
Yep, use the reader to practice on myself, plus it helped me learn the rhythms of the ESS and NJSN (Empire Slow Speed and New Jersey Slow Net) while I was getting code back 'front and center' in me brain, aye! If a dumb machine can understand my code, I'm sure my fellow ops will be able to copy!
Fortunately, after a mere couple of months, don't need it anymore - but, it IS useful to see how clean and crisp my sending is (pardon the grammar).
73 OM CUL
Joe
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RE: Code Practice / Self-Review / Codereader
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by NN6EE on September 8, 2004
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I understand Boys!!!
It's really amazing though that I was able to learn Code as well as I did especially having to use a E.F Johnson code-oscillator (yah right!!!) which was only a "doorbell buzzer" and a couple of "C" cell batteries!!!
If we'd have had ALL the options that "Wanna-Bees" have at their disposal today it would have been a TREAT learning the CODE!!! But alot of guys today DON'T want to learn it! Whether anybody wants to believe it or not "CODE" is an integral part of Amateur Radio's heritage/tradition!!! I take solace in the fact that worldwide there's still alot of us who feel that EXACT same way!!!
Jim/ee
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RE: Exclamations!
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by N2LJD on September 8, 2004
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NN6EE - Wonder if K3TIN will get annoyed with all your exclamation points!!!
Tongue FIRMLY Planted In Cheek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
73
Joe
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RE: Exclamations!
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by NN6EE on September 8, 2004
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HI again Joe!!!
Well if that particular individual does'nt like my multiple !!! then he can eat POOH!!!
Christ!!! Now we've got INTERNET punctuation COPS???
Maybe he'll REPORT us to "Riley H.???"
:-)))
Jim/ee
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RE: Exclamations!
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by AB5XZ on September 8, 2004
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Way back, when I was a CW-only op, the "BT" prosign, not the comma, was one way to say "uhhh" until we could come up with something else to say.
Then VOX and SSB became popular, and the op would actually SAY "uhhh" to open the VOX and to hold it open between thoughts. I hope that's a bad habit that has mostly gone away with better VOX circuits - and maybe better operators.
73Tom
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by AE6AT on September 9, 2004
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Larry
I am not going to let this series of posts on your article deter me from doing my best to learn and use CW. It does, however, cause some doubt as to whether I am anywhere near going on the air with it. There are more rules to it than I thought and I don't want to sound stupid to the old timers. I have put quite a few hours into learning the code and I am not going to give up just yet. I know that the Hams who use code are the best and would not want to intimidate a newcomer. I have learned a lot about what not to do from your article and this series of posts.
73
Don
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA2JJH on September 9, 2004
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Hmmmm..It was 1970.
Radio Shacks were staffed by hams or electronic hobbist's. YUP! People actually made electronics their hobby. Really they did!
In fact electronics was so popular....They had a monthy mag. POPULAR ELECTRONICS!!!
I was competing with this dude in the 5th grade. Who could build the niftist home brew project. We both had a crush on the same girl!
. Radio shack used to sell this 2 inch square of plastic. It had 2 transistors, a resistor and a cap. All this for 99 cents!
One just had to add a battery, key and loud speaker.
IT was one of the first germanium PNP transistor CODE PRACTICE OSCILLATORS.
For your key you had 2 choices at good OLD RS (RIP)
The BRASS POUNDER J-38 FOR $1.99!
The other was the plastic dancer for 79 cents. We called it that because it was such a POS. It would dance around the table as you tapped out code.
We both showed up early. I had the Brass, Sam saved
the money with the plastic dancer. He won the girls heart because he was able to buy her 2- 25 cent slices of pizza!!!!!!ARRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!
Back to di-dah, di-dah,di-dah
For my Novice CW exam. Period and double dash were not on the send or receive test. Just random letters and numbers.
As I remember it, your elmer then sprung up all the suprise's when you walked down death row. Death row was the space between the DRAKE C line for the PRO's and the XTAL controlled rig for your very first on air QSO. (The Hall of science radio club in the old world fairs space)
My first QSO was a mess. Feel sorry for the dude in MICHAGAN, that responded to my razer sharp CQ sent too fast.
Sure glad Chuck-SK, was able to talk me through the QSO!!!!!
I used a real trail mix of V's, periods, and double dashes, while I was sending NAME 3X QTH 3X RST 3X.
I think by QSO #10, chuck felt comfortable enough to let me operate solo.
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KB9YGD on September 9, 2004
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I have allways used BT,a b and a t run together to say i am thinking of what to send next or just to let my hand rest,etc.Its been that way for a lot of years.73,``THE REAL HAM``
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 9, 2004
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Larry,
Congrats on wanting to progress with your CODE skills, but it is ironic that you as a Extra had'nt been required to show the grasp of it at 20wpm like it was BEFORE de-regulation occurred!!! I listen in on the Extra CW subbands ocassionally and as of YET have not heard ANY Extras embarassing themselves there using 5WPM!!!
Ah the good O'Days are gone forever!!!
Jim/ee
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KF0W on September 9, 2004
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I like didahdidahdidah. Some people like to use dahdidididah. Some like to use (pause). Some like dahdahdididahdah. Who cares? The idea is to get the point (excuse the pun) across, isn't it?
73 es gn didahdidahdidah
Sidney KCØOSB
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by OLDFART13 on September 9, 2004
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by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
What I really object to is the "EXTRA-LITES" cluttering up our high-speed
Gen/Adv. CW portions with their 5WPM!
by NN6EE on September 9, 2004
I listen in on the Extra CW subbands ocassionally and as of YET have not
heard ANY Extras embarassing themselves there using 5WPM!
What I really object to is the Advanced licensees who think they are
better than today's current Extras. The advanced licensees couldn't
pass the Extra exam back then and they obviously can't pass the Extra
exam now. That is why they try to belittle the newer Extra class
licensees; who at least earned their Extra class tickets. Oh bye the
way, I operate on the Extra CW subbands; I don't just "listen in," and I
welcome all the new Extras to come and have a QSO with me, 5-30+wpm.
Jim, you are the only one who is embarrassing himself.
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RE: CW dying out?
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by W0OOW on September 10, 2004
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CW dying out? Not here!!! I personally don't care what stats you can come up with. Today for example, there was hardly breathing room from 14.000 to 14.025. CW dying out? Perhaps in someone's hopes and dreams, but not in reality. In fact, it is growing. Maybe, just maybe it is one of those modes that will never go away. Different persons like it for different reasons. Different persons operate at different speeds and at different skill levels. Check out the CW portion during a contest - best fasten your seatbelt.
Steve CW -- It's still magic
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 10, 2004
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OldFart13 quote: What I really object to is the Advanced licensees who think they are
better than today's current Extras. The advanced licensees couldn't
pass the Extra exam back then and they obviously can't pass the Extra
exam now. That is why they try to belittle the newer Extra class
licensees; who at least earned their Extra class tickets. Oh bye the
way, I operate on the Extra CW subbands; I don't just "listen in," and I
welcome all the new Extras to come and have a QSO with me, 5-30+wpm.
Jim, you are the only one who is embarrassing himself.
************************************************
Dear OB, (OLDFART13???) :-(
Obviously your overly sensitive as well as "thin-skinned!!!" being a coward not wanting to use you own call says it all about your ASSINE comment!!!
I'm very happy as a high-achieving Adv. class licensee, as we work everything we want to. My comment about some EXTRAS holds true anyway. So "Bite it!!!"
As one local cement company's logo says, as it pertains to your ill-conceived comment, "Find-a-need and-fill-it!!!" If there was a need for a Extra I would have got one many years ago.
Oh and check out a few "Ham Census sites" If you can read and comprehend and retain info you will find the EXTRA vs. Adv. class numbers are practically EQUAL, so there's alot of OTHERS who feel EXACTLY like I do!!!
Next time when making a comment use YOUR OWN CALL instead of a cowardly PSEUDONYM: definition: "bearing a false name; a fictitous name."
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by N0TONE on September 10, 2004
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Interesting comments.
Part of what makes this hobby interesting is the fact that we all have personalities. Some people use the period and some use BT and those are individual characteristics. Some put a comma between city & state. Some use a slash (/) to indicate they're out of their home callsign area and some don't. There's no longer a legal requirement to do so. I am bothered by /QRP, because the way I learned it, a slash character is used to designate some form of temporary modification of the license or class of operation. So, when Nate Newbie upgrades from Novice to General, but doesn't yet have his General ticket, and he's operating in a General part of the band, he might sign with NZ0NN/AG. Or, if he's operating from other than his home QTH, he signs NZ0NN/0 - he's still in the zero call area but not at his home QTH.
What I want to know is what is a well-understood way of sending an email addresss?
Do we send a period for the "dot" or do we send DOT as in:
EMAIL ADX HR IS W1AW AT ARRL DOT COM ?
Because "R" is the defined character for a decimal point (as in FREQ IS 10R103 MHZ), I've been tempted to use it:
EMAIL ADX HR IS W1AW AT ARRL R COM
But I think that is not interpreted the same by all.
Whaddaya think?
AM
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by W0OOW on September 10, 2004
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To NN6EE:
As you will notice, my call is here. Now that is over with,
"Obviously your overly sensitive as well as "thin-skinned!!!".. just who is overly sensitive???
And...
"So "Bite it!!!" -- that is not very nice.
And "EXTRA vs. Adv. class numbers are practically EQUAL, so there's alot of OTHERS who feel EXACTLY like I do!!! "
Maybe they feel like you, maybe they don't. They either:
a. feel like you
b. flunked the extra
c. did not take the extra for a multitude of reasons
Egads man lighten up. It's not worth it. This all started over a Didadidadidah? Why shouldn't a person stand tall over their Extra class IF they earned it? After all, for some it is/was an accomplishment. What's wrong with that? After all he offered to QRS for you. I thought that was pretty decent of him as not all will QRS unfortunately.
Steve
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by NN6EE on September 10, 2004
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Hiya Steve!!!
What problems???
I'm happy with my status, I hope you are with your's!!!
Geeesssh!!!
:-)))
Jim/ee
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by AD6WL on September 10, 2004
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by OLDFART13 on September 9, 2004
by NN6EE on September 5, 2004
What I really object to is the "EXTRA-LITES" cluttering up our high-speed
Gen/Adv. CW portions with their 5WPM!
So, where exactly should a 5wpm extra operate? I realize there is the unpopulated Novice portions of the band, but that leaves out 20 meters and most of the CW subbands.
At one point 5wpm was the best I could do but now days I can hit 20wpm. Luckily, what I have found on the air was a lot of encouragement and great operators; as opposed to what I have found on the internet.
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RE: Can't Take A Joke?
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by N2LJD on September 13, 2004
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Wow, guys! I hardly think I'm clairvoyant, but I know Jim "shave and a haircut" NN6EE has been joking throughout this thread. Unfortunately, others either a) didn't read the whole thread, or b) truly are thin-skinned.
This thread has been fun and interesting and comradely from the beginning until Friday's flame war. Let's get back to the topic - wuzzup with all the "." being transmitted, and what alternatives, if any are needed, are there.
73 OM FB
Joe
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What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by WA2JJH on September 16, 2004
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YES NOTONE CW is a very colorfull launguage.
Funny how it's abbevs. and other wierd words make it an international laungage
TNX FER CALL
CUL
HP to work u AGN OM
double dash----Hmmmmmmmmmm or I am thinking of what to say next.
RRR=enthusiasm+I copied all of what you said. Or the QSB did not wash me out. Or I agree with what you said.
Remember when you used to talk to the old Soviet Union.
All you got were name, approx QTH, and how many tubes the OM had in his rig. The QSO then ended.
Perhaps an RST system should be used on voice. The T would stand for audio quality. Rather than the usual your 5 and 9, just because you did not really analyse
the signal.
I personally like double dash over didaditdah
More of a segway.
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RE: What’s Up With Didadidadidah ?
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by KC2EQL on September 30, 2004
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I do not considered myself a cw'er, but I did take and passed cw test twice, once in the early 80's and again in the late 90's to re entered the amateur radio world and the lovely HF bands, where you find from a weirdo to a doctor in math. That said, Ham radio operators that are fluent in cw should impulse less skillfull operators in to gaining skills by helping with proper instruction, Why not posting Q&A's to common basic issues in CW. Example, one hardly heres how someone managed to learn cw (is not a natural thing), overcome speed barriers, learn symbols and puntuation, most people won't realize that cw is brief messaging (you don't need to send full words or long paragraphs), that it has a structured message body and protocol, that you can learned characters easier by grouping them, that hi speed is achived by learning to copy words and not characters. If we are to offer help and stop isolating cw operators as rare, unique kind of operators, better than any other operators and stop bragging about it (cause always at the end it boils down to that)may be then interest in the cw mode will increase. On the other hand many HF operator wannabes should make an extra effort to pass 5 wps test, on one test session one of the fellow test takers wrote dots and dashes on his paper and then converted to text before returning his paper, mission acomplished, he passed. Trust me that's harder than simply copying the tradional way. 73 DE KC2EL
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