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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Support Your Local Dealer!

Steve Katz (WB2WIK) on September 9, 2004
View comments about this article!


Support Your Local Dealer

Subtitle: Buy the Demo

Steve Katz WB2WIK/6

One topic I see tossed around quite a bit is amateur equipment dealers, their service, their worthiness, and any lack thereof.

One amusing story that comes to mind (I can't recall who wrote it, or even where I saw it, but this doesn't matter): A fellow visited a ham equipment dealer and “tried out” a rig. He liked it, but didn't want the “demo” rig, he wanted a “new” one. So, he had them take a “new” one from stock, and ship it to him at home.

When he received the new rig, he was certain it was actually used, or at least the carton had been opened before. He demanded replacement of this “new” rig, with another one that was really “new.”

I couldn't stop laughing at the foolishness of this.

Consider this

Why “test drive” a piece of equipment, then ask for a different one than the one you just tried out? Makes no sense. The “demo” rig is new, it has a factory warranty, but more importantly, it works. Heck, you just used it fifteen seconds ago. Why not take that one? Personally, after spending my time evaluating a piece of gear, if it passes my evaluation, that's exactly the one I would want. Not a different one, that one. I don't want to open a “new” box to be surprised that the new unit inside is dead, or has some problem.

Also, even though I feel a “demo” rig is brand new and worth exactly as much as any other “new” rig, many dealers will offer a discount on the demo rig. I'm not certain why, but what the heck. If I can take the rig I just tried out and liked, and get a discount also, I'm a happy camper.

Personally, I got into the “buy the demo if you can!” mode more than twenty years ago, and it was based on experience with a car. I test drove a new 1982 Camaro IROC, which was a new model year (with a style change, and other changes I had hoped they would not have made), and loved the car. It handled well, “felt” good to me, had plenty of power, shifted smoothly. So, I ordered one just like the one I had test driven.

Big mistake. I should have bought that very same car. That would have not only saved me a couple of weeks' delivery time, but would have saved me two years of incredible headaches, because the “new” one delivered to the dealer and then to me had so many problems I couldn't believe it was a production vehicle. I had to return it seven times to the dealer, for warranty service, in the first 90 days. Every time, service was free and they provided me a “loaner” car, but who the heck needs this aggravation?

Every problem I had was not exhibited by the test-drive car. My “new” one shifted badly, almost like the shifter and gearbox weren't in the same car. My “new” one “pinged” when accelerating, even using high-test gasoline. The test car didn't do that. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot: My “new” Camaro came complete without a lower radiator hose clamp. It evidently never had one, couldn't find it anywhere, nor any “tooth marks” in the rubber indicating there ever was one installed. As such, the hose came loose, it leaked all its coolant in about the first 50 miles, overheated, and had to be towed to the dealer.

Can you say, “lemon?” But, darn it, the test-drive car was perfect. I drove it all over the place, in about a one-hour test drive, over hill and dale. I loved it. I hated my “new” car, and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Moral of the story: Just because they look the same, and came off the same production line, doesn't make them the same.

Support your local dealer

Okay, you can stop laughing at me for being an idiot of a car consumer.

I learned my lesson, though, and since 1982 I've only purchased exactly the cars I've test driven, not similar ones. The “test drive” cars are always for sale, and usually at a little discount.

I encourage all of us to support our local ham gear dealers. Reason: If we don't, they'll all go away, then there won't be any. Without a walk-in trade, no ham equipment dealer would need to have a store: They could operate out of warehouses that nobody needs to find, and save a lot of overhead. The only reason for a store is to support walk-in customers.

When you walk in, you not only have the opportunity to “test drive” your new rig, but to ask questions of knowledgeable people about it. You may find other hams in the store who know more than you do, or more than the store employees, about that very rig because they already own one. You might find an “unannounced sale,” which many dealers have all the time but they don't advertise them: The sale is for walk-in customers only. Our local HRO store does this a lot. It helps encourage the local trade, by providing special discounts only to walk-in customers to offset the bite of sales tax and make the “local” deal more attractive.

You might also find the store selling exactly what you're interested in, but in a “used” version, for even less money. When the store sells a used rig, it usually offers a warranty on it - unlike a private seller.

Or, you might find a handful of locals who talk you out of what you wanted and talk you into something better! Listen to them, they may know what they're talking about.

The local store may know about local antenna installers, local used tower deals, local all sorts of stuff that you will never know about unless you're there.

Face to face beats PC-to-PC

When you buy gear at the local shop, you're buying it from somebody, a person you have now seen and chatted with, who can relate to you as you relate to him or her. You can negotiate with a person across a counter much better than you can negotiate with a voice on the telephone or words across your monitor. At the very least, if you have a problem you have someone to deal with, not just some faceless company.

If you're not a pain in the butt (as some people, and surely some hams, are), you can probably get that store employee or manager (or owner) to actually like you. After all, you have at least one thing in common: You're both hams. And if you're there in person, you have another thing in common: You're both local hams. You're far more likely to get a favor, or good advice, from someone you've met.

Here's a cool example: (By the way, I have no association whatever with any kind of ham gear manufacturer, dealer, or anything related to this market.) When I first moved to L.A., I visited our local ham stores, which included HRO, Henry Radio and Jun's Electronics. Many times.

Henry Radio has pretty much gone out of the retail business altogether and now just focuses on building and selling amplifiers. HRO is, of course, a successful multi-store chain, based in California. We have not one, not two, but actually four fairly “local” HRO stores. The nearest one is only 15 miles from me, and used to be closer than that (they moved).

When I first worked with the local HRO, I met a guy who some locals didn't seem to like but I thought he was nice and extremely knowledgeable about many aspects of ham radio, especially Dxing. As such, of course I couldn't wait to ask him more questions, and he always supplied what I thought were excellent answers. He was anxious to give very good advice to people, if they were willing to take it.

I didn't know this guy at all, but then heard him in a few DX pileups over the next year or two, and he did very well. Good signal, great operating. I looked him up, later. Turns out this guy was one of the very few in the world to have 7-band DXCC, 7-band WAZ, and “335 DXCC All SSB,” which means 335 confirmed countries on SSB only, not mixed modes. That's a hell of an accomplishment for a “city guy,” living within the L.A. City limits, as I do.

It was Al, K6YRA. He's still around, and still accomplishing stuff. I'm glad to have met him in HRO, he answered some vital questions for me that only a local would know about.

People like this are all around us. We should seek them out, and one place to find them hanging out is at the local ham radio store.

Can't get there

Well, in some cases, that is a problem. Not everyone lives within commuting distance of a ham radio retailer. But most of us actually do. For those who don't, it's worth making a long trip now and then.

I grew up in New Jersey, and after the big three or four ham radio stores in my area closed up for various reasons, one day wondered, “What would it be like to drive out to AES (Amateur Electronic Supply) in Cleveland? It looks only about 400 miles away, on the map.” So, very early one Saturday morning, I did just that: Drove 400 miles to AES. It was a wise move: I bought stuff there, met some great hams, and had a good time. Good way to kill a Saturday - all of it.

When it's truly impossible to visit a ham radio store because it's just plain too far, an alternative is this one: Buy locally, from local hams who are selling their stuff. You lose a couple of the benefits of buying from a retailer, but it sure beats buying from somebody you'll never meet, via an auction site like eBay. You still get the benefit of a “test drive” (try-out), and the benefit of face-to-face negotiation. You may not get a warranty, but local deals on used gear is fun and beneficial for all. And you save shipping costs, and worries that the gear will be damaged in shipment.

Support your local dealer. Buy locally. Meet other local hams. It's great.

WB2WIK/6

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KE2IV on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AND YOUR POINT IS.....?
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by W2BRI on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Steve,

Totally agree. Buy all my stuff from HRO, they have an excellent return and customer service policy. Makes sense to deal with them only. In the past I have been burned by mail order too many times. I have gotten old "new" radios, radios that were plain dead, etc. Now I go to HRO, pick out the box myself from the shelf and go home happy. Any problems, and right back to HRO and they take it back! No questions asked. Sales tax for me in CA is simply a service fee in my opinion.

Rock on,

Brian, W2BRI
www.standpipe.com/w2bri
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K0RGR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I do make a point of trying to buy something substantial at least once a year at Radio City in Blaine, MN. - our only ham dealer here in this state. I have also made pilgrimages to AES in Milwaukee - a pleasant overnight trip, and my usual mail/internet order site. Many locals also visit Burghardt's up in South Dakota, though I haven't made the trip myself yet - I often check their website.

I can't remember which town the original HRO was in - was it Burlingame? It was in an old train station. Up in the Bay Area they had these incredible ham Flea Markets at Foothill College once a month (maybe still do?), and we'd start there, then go on a shopping/scrounging mission that usually would include HRO, Heathkit, and much later on places like the early Fry's Electronics and several surplus stores around Moffett Field whose names I've forgotten. A fabulous way to burn a Saturday and all the money in the wallet.



 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KG4RUL on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Let's see, a TEN HOUR PLUS ROUND TRIP (of course that assumes that the traffic in Hotlanta is moving AT ALL) to my nearest HRO dealer.

<< OR >>

The UPS guy drops it off on my front porch.

OH, how to choose??

All sarcasm aside, I have managed to get to the HRO store in Atlanta once, just before Xmas last year, and actually got the Wife to go inside. (BTW, she now is KI4ECO.)

It was a lot like dropping into the radio stores that used to be in Cleveland, OH, forty years ago, back when I was a teenager. (NO, they weren't using spark gap xmittters then.)

I enjoyed meeting the people that I had talked to by phone so many times. And, it IS great to actually touch things before you buy them.

You would think that a population area like Charleston, SC, could support a real radio store. Alas, all we have is RatShack. (you got question, we got nuthin!)

Dennis / KG4RUL
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KE5GK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Where's the beef?

All dealers have long since closed up shop in Oklahoma.
Fewer and fewer are coming to the hamfests.
The good old days are over.

With a couple of exceptions, I have had great service using the internet and the phone.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB2HSH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
When I buy NEW ham gear (the used stuff I buy from eBay), I ALWAYS buy through HRO. Buying face-to-face wiould be nice...except for a few things:

A) The "ham" stores in Buffalo are glorified CB shops
B) New York State TAX is insane.

Thanks for the article...I'll just stick to HRO/Woodbridge, VA.

HSH
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K5UJ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I heartily agree with Steve. If you have a nearby dealer go over there from time to time and give him some business. You don't have to buy a sales tax busting TOL rig. Also I think there are some things such as keyer paddles that need to be tried out in person before purchasing if possible. And if your dealer likes to talk and it's a slow time you can usually learn a few things that you will never see anywhere in print.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB7LYM on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It was like reading a book. When I came to the end, I was thinking at Confucius statement.

A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON SEPERATED

KB7LYM

73
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WIRELESS on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Support my local dealer? I don't think so. When I had one still in business he used to close early, disappear for a month at a time, constantly complained to customers that bought mail order, and he never kept after sale promises. He finally went out of business and I couldn't care less, he deserved it.

I order everything from AES Cleveland and I get what I want delivered to my door the next day. I don't need a local dealer.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K3EY on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gee isn’t it about 25 or 30 years too late to worry about something that is really petty. Lets take it another step and tell everyone to stop shopping at Wal*Mart so the little guy can survive. No, you don't want to do that? Hmm, thought so with every Ma and Pa store having disappeared, so why in the hell am I worry about some guy who runs a small ham store when you have the big boys, HRO, AES, Texas Towers, Universal Radio on and on, hmmm? This topic was wasted space and only relevant twenty five years ago when it could have made a difference. By the way: I NEVER buy the USED Demo and your car story was a poor excuse to change your life style, of course these are only my opinions which we are all allowed. Happy Used Radio Shopping Trails To You Roy. Lone Sliver will never ride again my friend, different world. Clayton Moore is dead.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K4RAF on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

Much easier said by a guy in California than done by a guy is Southernmost farm country! One size doesn't fit all.

I also consider that if I walk into a store, I am subject to sales tax that I might be exempt from through mail order.

I remember Atkinson & Smith in Eatontown. They had 73 magazine when I was a mere SWL, along with QST & a couple of TenTec rigs in the window. That business model is long gone...
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by LNXAUTHOR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
- hmm... i guess i've done my part in supporting the [local] dealer...

- but i have bought used via mail order... TenTec is one good example... no-questions-asked money-back guarantee, savings over a new rig, and good service to boot... can't go wrong there!

- i have also purchased used SGC gear via mail order from HRO... again, there's a no-problem return policy (albeit shorter than TenTec's)...

- as a new ham, the choices in rigs were overwhelming and everyone seems to have a personal preference or need... i've found that i like simpler rigs with fewer 'bells and whistles,' and instead concentrate my buying dollars on dealers and manufacturers offering customer-oriented service and good products...

- however, purchasing a demo rig to avoid a potential problem? i'm not sure this is always possible for a couple reasons... first, some dealers may not want to take the trouble to find the box, accessories, and then repack, as it's easier to just grab a new one off the shelf... another possible reason could be (IANAL) that some state laws may preclude selling a used item as 'new,' possibly forcing an unnecessary price reduction on the dealer?

- but i generally agree that one should support a local dealer, but only if that dealer deserves your patronage...

- just my $0.02
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC9ETP on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Hey that's your problem! Chevy never made a 82 IROC Camaro (The first IROC was 85) you were driving a prototype! ;)
 
Your post was too long and the point trivial  
by N6AYJ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Steve, why did you waste so much space making the same minor point over and over? You really need to learn to make your point more concisely. You don't need to give us endless examples and verbal diarrhea. Thank you for considering this in your future posts.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N0TONE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As usual, I agree with Steve's principals in general, but feel they are too broadly stated, and he makes assumptions that typical hams have his general lifestyle. Regrettably, that is untrue.

Sorry to say, but driving 400 miles to visit a ham store is out of the question for the vast majority of us. Between 25 and 60 years old, most are spending so much time maintaining career, raising children, maintaining house (I am by no means the only ham I know who, for financial reasons, simply must do ALL his home maintenance himself and cannot afford to hire contractors), the notion of spending most of a day to make a purchase that could be done in minutes over the 'net is - well, it's nice for ME, but causes the family too much sacrifice.

Even now, in retirement, I am involved in many things, not just ham radio, and an entire day spent on a shopping spree would cause sacrifieces to many. I do dedicate a weekend to an operating event like a contest, but to buy a rig? Sorry, no can do.

I really enjoyed the first part of the article, about the IROC Z lemon. I have heard that story so many times from folks who've bought limited production vehicles, particularly GM vehicles. I take the "buy the demo" philosophy one step further, and always purchase used cars and gear. Vehicles are easy - if it's ten years old or less, it's likely been maintained by a dealer, who will keep records of all the services it's had. My present vehicle is a good example. It's a 1988 Japanese truck. I purchased it 11 years old, with 145,000 miles on the odometer. It had two previous owners, and was maintained by two dealers. A review of the truck's records showed that it had a starter replaced at 98,000 miles, and since this was premature, the Japanese manufacturer reimbursed the owner for the cost of the part, and half the labor, even though it was well out of warranty. All other service performed was routine maintenance like tires, filters, plugs and so on. So, I figured, this truck has demonstrated 11 years of faithful service - it was built right. The truck is now 16 years old, and I have added milesage up to the 235,000 mile mark. It uses a quart of oil every 2,000 miles, the engine and transmission are completely dry - no leaks, it still has all the original hoses on it, but I did a pre-emptive belt replacement at 200,000 miles (first time belts were replaced). So that's the key for me - start with something that has demonstrated many years of good service, and it's a good predictor of the future.

In ham gear, though, you don't have a dealer record to rely on. So you really do need to try to figure out the character of the guy selling it. I live in a sparsely populated area, and when I want to buy something, it's extremely rare that anybody within 100 miles of me has one for sale. Going further out from there, I can find more, but, frankly, the shysterism in the nearest big city is pretty bad - the city is known for hosting CB chop shops. Despite a population of more than 1 million, there's no ham dealer at all.

So I am essentially forced to purchase items over the 'net. In my 50+ years of hamming, I've purchased only one rig brand new, and that was actually a recent purchase of a handheld 2 meter rig for a family member. I've only had one lemon, and that was the time I didn't bother to check out the seller well enough.

How do I check out a seller? If I see an item for sale, I just perform a Google search on his callsign. If he shows up in contest logs, then I know he's technically literate, and accustomed to having to validate his claims. If the majority of the "hits" on the guy show that he mainly does buying and selling, then I avoid him. Not that he's likely to be a shyster, but it means that he has absolutely no knowledge of the history of the gear he's selling, and he doesn't buy and sell based on a knowledge of that gear. For instance, he might sell a sweep tube amplifier, claiming it was "the best amplifier made" and he doesn't realize that sweep tube amps are the worst splatter generators made. I have purchased a few things from one of the more "famous" "I sell anything" hams and it had been badly repaired. I called him about it (he'd claimed he owned the thing himself for ten years) and he said "I only just got it in, and never looked inside". So, if they just buy and sell, then it's a guarantee that they don't really know the gear they're selling -probably haven't lifted the lid to see if it's been hacked inside. I made that mistake twice, and won't do it again.

Really, these days with all the search engines, you can do a very good job of ascertaining whether the fellow you're buying from has the smarts to know good gear from bad, and you can tell by the tone of his writings on the 'net whether he's likely to be a reasonable fellow if the rig isn't right.

And, beyond all these considerations, in the end, the best thing to do is buy nothing. That is, get a good HF rig that does the job and stick with it. I used the same rigs for 30 years and only upgraded when I finally decided to computerize my contest operations. The rig I purchased has now been the main rig for four years and I see no reason to replace it. Get some stuff that works for you and be satisfied with it.

AM
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WILLY on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Steve,

While some of the replies seem to indicate that your message was not received, I got it. Tnx for another nice, well written article.

Personally, I can't handle a 400 mile one way trip! The last time I checked, the closest store was about 3 hours away. That is beyond my means. It would be nice though, to have one close, as you do.


"...
When it's truly impossible to visit a ham radio store because it's just plain too far, an alternative is this one: Buy locally, from local hams who are selling their stuff. You lose a couple of the benefits of buying from a retailer, but it sure beats buying from somebody you'll never meet, via an auction site like eBay. You still get the benefit of a “test drive” (try-out), and the benefit of face-to-face negotiation. You may not get a warranty, but local deals on used gear is fun and beneficial for all. And you save shipping costs, and worries that the gear will be damaged in shipment.

Support your local dealer. Buy locally. Meet other local hams. It's great. "


Agree 100% with this part. It says a lot.


73
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K7PEH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I would love a local ham radio store. But, the closest store, HRO, is 190 miles away in Tigard Oregon (south part of Portland). Yes, I have driven there more than once. It is 7 hours round trip driving time and a minimum of an hour at the store makes for a whole day.

No, I do not live in the the hills. I do not live in some small town that is lucky to have a stop sign (that would be nice though). I live 9 miles from downtown Seattle. Can you believe it, not one good HF oriented ham radio store for almost 200 miles. I say HF because there is a VHF/UHF type place up in Arlington not 30 miles from me.

It is not that there are no ham radio operators around, it is mostly that buying over the internet or the phone is so convenient plus in some cases someone can avoid paying their local sales tax. Actually, Oregon is a sales tax free state so driving down to HRO in Tigard is tax free buying (yes, I probably make up for it in gas especially with my 3/4 ton pickup).

I grew up in Campbell California. A neighbor who lived just a few blocks from me was the owner of Quement Electronics -- darn if it was not the best electronics and ham radio store around. It was the best but not the only one. Just down the street on Bascom Avenue was yet another little hole in the wall ham radio store. It was a ham radio operator whose day job was repairing TV sets but his store was mostly ham radio.

When I went to college at Oregon State University in Corvallis Oregon there was another nice little hole in the wall ham radio store in the town of Albany, just 10 miles away. It was a great Saturday afternoon visit.

HRO is nice but the kind of ham radio store I like is the one that looks like half of a hamfest swap meet and half retail store. You know the kind of place. They were popular in the 1950s and 1960s (I was a kid back then, I am not that old yet). This is where you bought that 220 micky-mike capacitor from the box on the table in the middle of the store. No plastic wrap here. You go to radio shack and you buy a capacitor -- no, you can't buy one, you need to buy at least two and they are in a nice little plastic wrapper. You know, that plastic wrapper, the label, and the price sticker must cost more than the capacitor.

The last Ham Radio Store in the whole Puget Sound (greater Seattle) area went out of business about 5 or 6 years ago. Let's start another one.

73s
Phil,
K7PEH
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WW0H on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with you, Steve; I'd much rather buy a unit I've seen, laid hands on, and know works, along with buying from someone I've met. I have bought stuff on eBay and from the local small dealer, as well as HRO and AES. Last year, we moved to north central Nebraska. Burghardt's is now the closest store. I remember when my dad was first licensed and was shopping for a new HF rig. He said he walked into Burghardt's, turned around and walked out. They had so much stuff that it intimidated him. So I'm thinking, "Hit me with your best shot!" Keep in mind, scoffers, that he had never been in any ham store and wasn't sure what he wanted.

Support the local guys and get to know them. I think you get better service from them and more reliable service as well. Even if it costs a little more; hands on is much better than looking at an ad in QST

John - WW0H
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KI6LO on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AES Las Vegas, NV has tollfree phone, no tax if shipped to CA, overnight delivery via UPS at Ground rate (only 4 hours drive from home). Order on VISA card, usually here next day, always by 2nd day and AES has it almost everything I have every needed.

Rest of stuff is either from Ebay or online websites.

Never had a problem with any order although I do my homework before plopping down the card.

No local stores here and I don't care for HRO's "if ya don't want to buy at least $1,000 worth, don't bother us" attitude.

Gene KI6LO
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, the problem with the "I don't have time to go shopping for a whole day or two, and I've had great experiences buying stuff via the web" approach is this will surely lead to the closing of *all* amateur radio retail outlets, which can be replaced for a fraction of the cost by a single warehouse and an offshore call center.

This is the "Dell Electronics" business model, and it works very, very well based on their profitability and longetivity in the market. However, as a Dell customer (and I bet a lot of us are!), I'm not wild about having my phone calls answered in Bangalore by people I can barely understand, and having my orders screwed up -- which every single one has been.

But, this is precisely what happens when a company decides they don't need retail outlets with walk-in trade. The model greatly reduces operating expenses, so they can offer products at lower cost -- and that's a benefit. But the "personal service" is completely eliminated, and for sure your phone calls are routed to India.

Maybe that's what hams who have no time for retail shopping want. It's not what I want, thus this article.

WB2WIK/6
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N7XB on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I fell fortunate to have one of the HRO stores here in the Portland (Tigard), Oregon area. It is staffed with friendly, helpful, and generally knowledgeable employees.

The biggest advantage is the point Steve could have made in seven less paragraphs: you can't spin a VFO knob on a full-color glossy ad. Having the ability to literally put hands on different rigs, all laid out by manufacturer, gives a prospective buyer valuable knowledge in making a purchase.

Even I took longer than was necessary to say that.

Bruce N7XB
Portland, OR
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WPE9JRL on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Indeed, I "support" my local ham radio store. I have driven several times the couple hundred mile round trip to try out radio's on the counter.....

....before I buy them on the INTERNET!

Why would I want to pay a higher sales price for the radio?

Why would I want to pay State sales tax on the radio?

Why would I want to support their "in-house" service department? Last new radio I bought from them, I drove back to the store for warranty service only to find out later that they shipped the radio out to the vendor for service! Could have done that myself...Dugh!

Come on, this is 2004....not 1964. More "old ham" thinking.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K7JBQ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Gene,

I don't know which HRO store you're talking about that has that attitude, but I spent an hour at HRO Anaheim Saturday, spent a grand total of less than a hundred bucks and was treated like the most important customer they had that day.

I think most of us who grew up in the hobby with a "local" dealer (local, from the Oregon coast, meant a hundred miles away in Portland -- Portland Radio Supply, a wonderful store -- would agree with Steve.

73,
Bill
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N7NRA on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if you buy from HRO (our "local" dealer, here in the Phoenix area), even by mail order, aren't you "supporting the local dealer"?

I don't think the Phoenix HRO store does a very large amount of business. I'd suspect that they're subsidized a bit by the mail order end of the business. In other words, if I buy mail order from an outfit that has local stores, I'm still supporting the local dealer, right?

Responses welcome.

Regards,

Stew
N7NRA
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by NN2G on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I do support our "local" dealer. Its R and L in Hamilton Ohio, Im lucky its only a hour away.

You can support your "local" dealers at Hamfests when they come to town, even though the dealers are maybe located 500 miles away or so.

Maybe a few years ago a ham radio dealer might have included Radio Shack, but thats not the case no more.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Stew,

Maybe you're right, but I don't feel that way.

If all hams mail-ordered everything they buy, your Phoenix store would go away, to be replaced by a warehouse someplace where real estate is very cheap, close to a major airport. Memphis comes to mind, that's why Federal Express put their corporate location and domestic hub there.

One thing I did note in the article and nobody commented on: HRO offers "special deals" in the stores, often. These deals are not promoted on the internet, not even on their own website: They are store-specific, for walk-in customers.

So, that great deal you get by mail-order may be a great deal, or maybe you could have done better by walking in and asking the store to beat the "web" price. I've done that, and have been very happy with the results.

WB2WIK/6

 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by NE0P on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
to KE5GK: There is K and E Electronics in Oklahoma City. Not a large ham dealer, and some of their new stuff (Icom) is overpriced, but they do carry used equipment, and MFJ goes for what all other dealers sell for. Located at I-44 and NW 23rd street. Usually stop there when I am in the city.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by NE0P on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I was just in Kansas City last weekend on vacation, and one of the highlights of my trip was going to Associated Radio. I have ordered several things from them before, and wanted to see it in person. Plus I picked up a few connectors and whatnots which I didn't want to pay postage on. Why pay $8 shipping for a $4 connector? It was great to meet a few hams, see some new and used radios, and find out that they do service. I didn't know that before.

The closest major ham store to home is about 3 hours away in Dallas. I have never been there yet, but do try to hit stores while on vacation. It makes a nice side trip to the vacation, and usually gives me a chance to pick up a few things, and a couple of magazines to read. So far I have been to AES in Milwaukee, Comdac in St. Joseph, MI, Tucker in Dallas (when they were still in the ham business), the Ham Radio Toy Store in Wheaton, IL, some ham store in Buffalo, NY (can't remember the name), and Associated Radio. Almost got to Eli's amateur radio in Ft. Lauderdale. Discovered it the last day of my honeymoon, about 2 hours before we had to be at the airport. Just couldn't make it.

Steve is right, though. There is nothing like getting to see these radios in person, and I have bought a demo unit several times. Still has the same warranty, and I know it worked at least once. I have bought only 3 radios new in my life: A Santec ST7 UHF HT, and 2 Eagle Spitfire 10 meter HTs. Everything else has been used or demo.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K7VO on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have mixed feelings about what Steve wrote.

First, we don't have a local dealer. We have a CB shop that encourages "freebanders", sells overpriced junk and illegal amps. Thanks, but no thanks.

I have gone to Communications Headquarters in Wilmington, two and a half hours away. They have very little stock and prices tend to be a bit high. You can't "test drive" anything. It's all in sealed boxes. How is this better than buying online?

I have also gone to HRO in Woodbridge, VA, three and a half hours away. They are worth the trip. However, if I buy from them in the store or online I am supporting them equally well. If I'm in Northern Virginia and have the time I certainly will drop in.

I've bought from both HRO and CHQ at hamfests. I want both to stay in business.

OTOH, I've also bought factory direct, from Ten Tec or from Japan (Tokyo Hy-Power and Mizuho) and I've always been incredibly satisfied. For these manufacturers that's the only way to buy right now.

I also have bought a lot online on eBay and eHam. I've done better than at hamfests where lying to another hams face about the condition of gear seems to be oh so common nowadays. I've actually done best on eBay when buying some of the oddities and rarities I have. The feedback system tends to keep people a bit more honest and the photos definitely help in determining condition. I'd never make a large purchase on eBay, but for small stuff it's been great. I don't get caught up in last minute bidding. I bid what I think is fair and if I win that's fine. If I don't that's fine too.

As far as buying locally from other hams, well... if there is something I want and it's priced fairly I agree that face-to-face is the way to go. However, all too often the price is eBay typical +50%. Thanks, but no thanks.

I have also bought from hams I correspond with via e-mail. That has always worked out well. I always like it when I finally get to meet people I've talked to on the air or corresponded with face-to-face, usually at a hamfest or ham event. However, sometimes an online mailing list helps establish a common interest and on air scheds and face to face meetings happen because of the initial interaction online.

Anyway, that's my take on things. Support the local store? Sure, if they're worth supporting.

73,
Caity
K7VO
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by OBSERVER11 on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
unless your local dealer is an anti-social bigotted hilljack... like my local dealer.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KG5JJ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Memphis Amateur is my local dealer (live in northwest Arkansas)

Overnight delivery if called/ordered in AM.

Many stores have online shopping. Quick, convenient, usually no sales tax, and I don't buy used (any more) so that is not an issue.

Home shopping is the way to go, dealers recognize this, have made allowances to complement their storefront businesses with it.

73 KG5JJ (Mike)
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by W6TH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!


Hello Steve. We meet again.

I buy from AES. Fast delivery and good products. The price tag does not bother me so am not looking for any bargains. I buy new. No junk from eBAY.

Can't buy from Howard Radio, Stancor, T.R. McElroy, RME Engineers, Harvey Radio, Meissner, Bliley, National Radio, Johnson, Leo Myerson and ,oh, so many others. Do you miss Cortlant street or the great places of New York? Of course we do, we all do.

I agree as to buying a pair of shoes, try them and see if they fit. Can't find any that are "demonstrators" over this way, shoes or radios.

.:
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N0TONE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Steve, I think you're getting a bit too much "sky is falling" mentality. In order for the whole outsourced call center/single warehouse concept to work financially, there must be a high volume of identical products sold. I have established two of those remote call center operations in the past five years, and the economics simply aren't there unless you're dealing with $2 Billion or more in gross sales - and that's more than the entire ham radio market put together. So, don't worry about it - it won't happen.

I do agree with the notion that putting your hands on the rig and using it is a great idea. However, a store environment isn't a good one to do it in. I want to see the rig in actual operation during a contest, connected to a PC for logging, and with other contest stations operationg from the same place. Therefore, my own review of rigs happens by travelling to some contest station for a weekend.

Last time I was at an HRO (during a trip to Silicon Valley) I did enquire about whether they could offer an in-store discount. The salesman's specific advice was "wait until you're back in your home state, then call us on the phone. You'll save more on the state sales tax than it will cost to ship it to you." Not an in-store discount, but I felt the advice was given in a helpful manner.

I do make it a point to stop by dealers when I'm in a city where one exists. It's just one more way of maintining contact with another segment of the ham population. Frankly, it's almost the only contact I have with the VHF/UHF community, since there's nearly zero FM/repeater activity in my county.

AM
 
Support TEN TEC!  
by W4XKE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good article Steve. I buy most of my gear from Stan Brock over at Sevierville, TN, eyeball to eyeball. HRO, AES, and the other big dealers have little to offer me anyway, since I don’t buy YaeComWood equipment. (Well, if it is offered for a couple of bucks at a hamfest, I might consider it.)
That is kind of like a Chevy. I might buy one if someone wanted to practically give it away. Having worked at GM for a number of years, I can tell you Chevrolets are made from reject parts. Anything that the Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Cadillac divisions refuse to accept is sent to Chevrolet.
>
EX: One day a quality control tech checked the subassemblies coming off one of the machines and discovered 30% of the darlington transistors were cracked. (A stop-nut had worked itself loose and allowed a pick-and-place station to go out of adjustment.) The operator of the machine was sent to the break room for a coffee while we decided what to do. The parts were run in 10,000 piece lots and nine of the lots were affected.
One engineer commented, “If we were talking about a few hundred ignition modules, they would be scrap, but with 90,000 parts, they definitely are not scrap!”
After much consideration and 3 meetings with department heads and managers the solution was: “Let’s get some women over here to set up a re-op line and sort out the most obvious ones and we’ll build the rest. Put a green date code on them to assure that they all go to Chevrolet and put a few of them into every box that goes out of here.”
“We can’t do that!” Objected one quality manager. “We’re talking about ignition modules here. When one of these fails, it isn’t like the radio stops playing.” It’ll cost us more in the long run to have to replace all these units in the field!”
“We’ve already considered that. A lot of them will fail at final test. Of the ones that get through, most of them will last through warranty. Build ‘em!”
Buick, Olds and Cadillac were more demanding of quality so that’s what I bought and steered clear of Chevy. (Pontiac was the test bed for the other divisions. Some things worked. Some didn’t.) Today, I buy what I perceive as the highest quality and the highest domestic content and that is spelled “Ten Tec” when it comes to amateur radio equipment. Check out www.tentec.com before you spend those ham dollars! Johnny Angel, W4XKE
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WK2X on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
This is kind of funny. I actually attempted to do this once here in the Detroit area when I was looking for a dual band mobile rig. I went to the only local ham store and asked them what they had. They said they don't typically carry those, and that I should just mail-order one from the web, and advised me that I could probably get it cheaper there anyway. Go figure.

But...for stuff like mobile antennas and miscellaneous crap, I'll try there first every time.

My $.02...

73, Bill WK2X
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K8XF on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!

One of the big reasons many Hams dont support their local dealers is the sales tax. The cost of shipping via UPS is much cheaper than paying sales tax on a overpriced HF rig... Its great playing with a rig before you buy it. But asking questions of any salesman is a waste of time. Most dont know the rigs
features and if you find a salesman that knows something he is always called away by phonecalls.
At a local swap 2 years years ago the ICOM rep couldnt answer many questions regarding the 756 Pro2.
I rest my case...

73
Mike, K8XF

 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I don't think the sky is falling. I just like the "candy store" atmosphere, and my local HRO has everything they sell (pretty much) on display, connected to beams on towers, and you can sit and play all you like on a contest weekend -- at least, on the Saturday of the contest weekend.

The ham market is nowhere near $2 Billion, but to make a warehouse/call center business model attractive, you don't have to be anywhere near that revenue stream. Dell did it when they were at a couple of hundred million, using U.S.-based call centers. They outsourced the call center to Bangalore when they got bigger.

Indeed, the model I propose will take over is already happening, and has been for many years. There used to be over 200 amateur radio equipment dealers in the U.S., in 1970. How many are there now?

In the metro NYC area alone, there used to be Barry, Harrison, Federated, Atkin & Smith, Gem, et al. All within 25 miles of midtown Manhattan. There was Adirondak Radio up above Albany; there were ham dealers in Utica, Binghamton and Rome, NY; and another one at Rochester Airport -- oh yeah, and one in Buffalo. All gone. Replaced by the warehouse/call center model, and the internet.

So, the sky isn't falling, but the dealers are and if "home shopping" prevails, there surely won't be any stores left. Not a prediction, more of a certainty.

As one who's trying to keep my girlish figure, I don't do any home shopping, and simply encourage others to think about alternatives to this prevalent mindset.

WB2WIK/6

I don't mind
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K3UOD on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Maryland no longer has a general purpose ham radio store. There is RF Connections in Gaithersburg, which has a great stock of wire, cable and other antenna materials, but no gear.

Two years ago, I decided that I would make a once-in -a-lifetime investment. In my 42 years of hamming, I had never owned a brand new HF rig. I decided that, just once I would take the plunge. After much research, I whittled the choices down to the Icom 756 Pro and the Yaesu MK 5 Field. But I couldn't make up my mind which without trying them side-by-side. So, one Saturday I made the 2 hour drive to HRO in Delaware.

They set me up in front of both rigs with an antenna switch so I could compare receivers (I figure a transmitter is a transmitter). I spent an hour tuning in stations on various bands and trying out various features, then went to lunch to think it over. I finally decided that I would go for the Yaesu (though If money were no object, I would've bought both).

The store didn't have a boxed rig in stock (and weren't going to sell the demo) but they took my order and UPS delivered the rig to my home two days later.

I think that the ideal situation is a chain operation where there are brick and mortar stores available but the stores are supplemented by internet sales and the networking of inventories across the country. HRO and AES have this pretty well perfected (though HRO's web site is more user friendly, I hate the way AES has everything in pdf files and no search function).
 
Internet Buying with HRO  
by K7PEH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
If you place an order with HRO over the Internet or even via phone call to their order line, they will ship the item out from the closest HRO store that has the item in stock -- that is, closest HRO store to your shipping address.

HRO has no central warehouse -- their inventory is in the collective (borg like) body of the various HRO retail stores. So, buying over the Internet is like buying from a local store. It may not be the local store you have closest to you but it will be a local store.

I have bought lots of stuff from HRO and I get it shipped from Portland (aka Tigard), Sunnyvale, Phoenix, and even some east coast stores at times.

73s
Phil
K7PEH
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KE4ZHN on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
My local dealer happens to be AES. I live less then 10 miles away from the Orlando store. The times I have visited the store, I can assure you that they do at least 20 times more buisness via telephone orders over walk ins. The place is almost always empty, but the phones ringing off the hook constantly. Frankly, what should it matter? You choose a rig, order it, and if its junk you send it back. The very same thing can happen buying it in the store. A brand new radio out of the box can fail the first time its powered up. Its happened many times. Why would I want a radio thats had a thousand greasy hands all over it twisting knobs and messing around with it, when I can have one brand new fresh out of the box? Why pay a new price for an already "used" radio? Cars are cars....radios are radios bad comparison. AES doesnt make the radios, they only sell them. It would be just as possible to take home the demo rig and have it smoke a week later.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WY3X on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
When I first got my ticket in 1991, I supported the local dealer. And boy howdy, did I support him! I bought three new radios right off the bat. And Alinco DR-599, and Alinco DJ-580T, and an Icom 735. Right out of the box, the IC-735 failed to work properly.

Drive back 75 miles to return it, the dealer
refused to swap it out, made me leave it for repair.
Drive home 75 miles.
Drive back 75 miles to pick it up two weeks later.
Drive back home, it STILL didn't work!
Drive back 75 miles, dealer still refused to replace
it, kept it again.
Drove back home 75 miles.
Drove 75 miles back to pick it up two weeks later, dealer swore the problem had to be my antenna, I then bought a new beam from him, drove home 75 miles, spent two days
getting everything assembled and up in the air, still didn't work!!!
Drove back 75 miles and dealer refused to look at it unless I could prove that it had a problem. I set up mobile in his parking lot and talked on it for 10 minutes until the problem presented itself. Dealer sees problem, still refuses to replace radio, makes me leave it for him to ship to Icom.
Drive home 75 miles.
Wait 6 weeks. Drive 75 miles back to the dealer to pick up the radio. Now working, but at half-power. Eventually it breaks again.
Ship it to Icom in Bellvue, WA, with full documentation of all the problems, over a year with this lemon, Icom finally sends me back a brand new radio!
Come to find out, the dealer used a dummy load for all their testing and never tested it on the air. Same with Icom in Georgia! If only they had hooked it up to a "real" antenna, the problem would have presented and I would have had a working radio MUCH sooner.
I swear I will never do business with that dealer again, but a couple of years later, I wind up needing an accessory, so I call this dealer to verify that it's in stock. It is, and I tell him to put my name on it, I'm coming to get it the next day. Next day, I drive the 75 miles back to the dealer. The dealer sold it out from under me! I then drive 75 miles home swearing *at* the dealer the whole way, and p'ed at myself because I should have learned my lesson the FIRST time. I swear I'll never deal with them EVER again. I've bought several new HF sets in the past 5 years, and none of them have come from the local dealer. And none ever will, if I have anything to do with it! A friend of mine tried to by a particular radio from this same dealer at a hamfest, and was loudly insulted with a sneer and was asked "why do you want that radio, because it's cheap???" Never again. This dealer is in Wilmington, NC.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KT0DD on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
How About the "Local Dealer" supporting us? We are probably the Antithesis of Dayton here in WY. with probably the smallest hamfest around. We still draw 200+ people for 2 days over Labor Day weekend.

HRO in Denver, just 3-4 hours away came here years ago, but in the last 5-7 years, they have been a no-show. Due to them not supporting us, very few WYO hams do business there, unless they have to have it overnight, or it is unavailable elsewhere. I's either RadComm Radio , Burghardt's in SD, or AES for about everyone I know.

Thank God For Ricky Roy at RadComm in Lubbock TX. He has faithfully been our Hamfest vendor at least the last 5-6 years since I've been licensed. He always comes (drives from Lubbock! HRO Denver, are you reading??) and has fun and makes a few bucks, although he probably doesn't get rich here. Thank You Ricky Roy. I don't think we would even want HRO to show up now. 73.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by CASPER669 on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I must say that this particular article does require a few extra minutes of time to read... However, the point was made and received! Thank you!

I am one who has ordered via the Internet (Gigaparts, HRO, R&L) and via eBay. I've yet to send anything back due to DOA issues. I have one radio (Kenwood TS-440) that I have a problem with, but it occured well after the purchase(eBay). I guess I've just been lucky! With that said, I have 3 different dealers (in 4 separate locations) I can visit: Barry's Electronics (NYC-which, combined w/NYS taxes is a complete waste of time), KLI Electronics (NJ-about 25 minutes over the GWB, but they have weird hours), or HRO (DE or NH-I've frequented the New Castle, DE store several times in the last 2 years). I've become familiar with Rich at the HRO store in DE. Also, as mentioned earlier, they allow hands-on testing of all the rigs they sell. They'll also allow you to hook-up a rig you just purchased to test it out before leaving the store. This is a great plus for me, considering the time and energy involved in getting there.

I drive about 2+hours one way to get to HRO in DE and hope to find enough time to visit the store in NH, which is 4+hours one way. I would visit the KLI Electronics store more often, but the hours they keep tend to clash (horribly, I might add) with my own hours and the hours in which the George Washington Bridge is usually backed up!

Although I don't have a local shop nearby, I do take my little trips. If I leave at 8:00 AM on a Saturday, I can be at HRO in DE by about 10:15 - 10:30 AM - basically, right after they open their doors. I stop in, check out some equipment I may/may not be interested in buying at that time, And I get some 'me' time in the process. I'm usually there no longer than an hour. I go to BK's, which is across the highway and have lunch there. I'm back on the road by 12:15 - 12:30 PM. Depending on congestion on the GWB, I'm usually home by 2:30. Round trip is about 263 miles. And, I still have the rest of the day for chores, children, and spousal adult time!

In the latter part of the evening - usually after 11:00 PM, I'll put what I purchased on my desk chair to remind myself that I have something to work on in the morning. If I wake up early enough, I could have 2+hours available to me to setup, test and troubleshoot any issues. All this without any interruprtions from children, the wife, or phone calls!

My next trek down their will be sometime before Thanksgiving. I go about once every 2 - 3 months. You're right, though! It really is better to go face to face!

Thank you and 73!

Chris KC2KFW
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N3ZKP on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am fortunate to live equidistant from HRO Woodbridge and HRO New Castle, although New Castle takes 30 minutes less time because I don't have to fight DC traffic. :)

Both stores have been outstanding, customer service-wise and are just as interested in my "two-bit" purchases as they are in my big ticket purchases.

Yea, I can call Rick in New Castle and he'll ship me anything I want, but I prefer to drive the hour and play with the new goodies. I do this often, whether I wind up buying anything or not.

Lon in Baltimore.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N3ZKP on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
PS ...

The last three radios I bought I took the one on display after playing with it. I agree with Steve's philosophy on buying the demos.

Lon
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KG4YJR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
>>unless your local dealer is an anti-social bigotted hilljack... like my local dealer.<<

Hamilton, Ohio?
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC0KBH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I woud buy from a local dealer, but they are so expensive on cheap things.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by W3JJH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Lon,

You forgot to mention that there's also no sales tax in Deleware! Another reason to shop in New Castle.

73 de W3JJH
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC9FQM on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Indeed, I "support" my local ham radio store. I have driven several times the couple hundred mile round trip to try out radio's on the counter.....

....before I buy them on the INTERNET!

Why would I want to pay a higher sales price for the radio?

Why would I want to pay State sales tax on the radio?
++++++++++
Well, are you a consistent freeloader who wants to get something for nothing every time? You "use" your local ham store's facilities and the equipment they have on display but then go elsewhere to buy? I am sure the encourages them to stay in business. Where do you plan to go to freeload when they fold, due to lack of business?

Why would you want to pay a higher price for a radio? Maybe because you had sufficient understanding and morals to pay them for the service they have provided to you in evaluating what you were purchasing elsewhere.

Why would you want to pay state sales tax on a radio? Maybe because you avail yourself of the services provided by those taxes, and feel slightly guilty if you d not pay your share? In some states you are legally obligated to declare purchases made out of state, the amout of tax paid and pay any difference to your state over that you would have been required to pay in your state beyond what you already paid.

But it is all your option.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by AA4PB on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In general, I'd prefer NOT to buy the demo rig. Who knows how many hours it has on it, who may have abused it, etc. I'd rather take my chances with a new one out of the box. If there was a big travel distance involved I might ask to try out the one I'm going to purchase - but not the demo unit that everybody has had their hands on for the last six months.

With a car at least you've got the odometer to see how far its been driven.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N3ZKP on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<< Lon,

You forgot to mention that there's also no sales tax in Deleware! Another reason to shop in New Castle.

73 de W3JJH >>

I thought of that after the second post - didn't want to do a third! :)

But you are correct, no sales tax in Delaware is another good incentive for the drive, not to mention shooting the bull with Rick, Bob and the others.

Too ban Amateur Radio Center and Maryland Radio are gone. The fella at Maryland Radio found out he could make more money turning the store into a lounge and selling booze. :(

Lon
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N6AYJ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I wouldn't have been so brusque with Steve if I didn't consider him to be a friend.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
AA4PB, interesting point.

But if a piece of electronic equipment's worth is based on how many hours it's been used, that's pretty sad...the typical one-year warranty on new gear implies the manufacturer had faith the equipment would function properly for at least 8760 hours (24/7 for a year), and of course most gear lasts a lot longer than that. My TS-850S has been "on" for about 105,000 hours now, which is 24h/day for most days over the past 12 years, and hasn't failed yet.

Each to his own, but I'd prefer to take a rig that's been a bit abused and has withstood that test. If others couldn't blow it up, there's very stong likelihood I won't be able to, either.

Bear in mind most "mil spec" electronic gear other than fuzes for munitions is burned in -- often for 1,000 hours or more -- to help improve reliability, not degrade it, before it's deployed. "Early life mortalities" are the prevalent problem with electronic equipment: If it doesn't fail in the first 1000 hours, it's unlikely to fail in the next 10,000 hours. That's why "burn-in" works. I like my stuff burned-in, and I can get it that way, to some degree, if I buy the demo unit.

Of course, this is a variable. Some demo units may have less than five minutes' operating time on them, other than whatever time I invest myself.

Each to his own, but I'll stick with my method -- it's been working for me!

WB2WIK/6

 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N0TONE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
OK, Steve, I confess I missed your original point. I thought you were trying to avoid offshore call center operations. Thanks for clarifying it.

200 was never correct, by the way. I WAS a dealer in the 1970s. It was a whole lot easier then - there were far fewer models of equipment. Roughly the same annual dollar amount being spent, distributed over fewer total models meant it took far less inventory dollars to have a useful selection. When I think about the number of dealers I had to contend with for price (even in the 1970s, hams did exactly what they do today - walk into my shop, look at the rig, then make phone calls to find the best price), it was perhaps double today, that's all.

But where I live today, there are no handy dealers and never were, so I don't have any local candy store image to preserve in any event.

Last time I was in SV and there was a contest happening, I tried to use gear at the local HRO. They don't have an effective lowband antenna, so I was unable to validate any radio's performance on the critical lowbands where you really teat a receiver's mettle for IMD. And the triband Yagi, for some reason, wasn't pulling in signals very strongly. And in any case, they didn't have enough antennas for a true multi-multi torture test.

Driving a rig at a ham store is like driving a car on a smooth oval race track. It tells you what the rig will do when it's not forced to contend with real world signals - not bad, but not enough.

So Steve, my nearest dealer is about 450 miles away. The trip involves some pretty harried driving, along some of the country's most crowded highways. I'm in my eighties. You want me to do this trip for what reason- so that you will continue to have a local candy store? As much as I really do like to think about the other guy, this is one case where I'll be a bit self-serving and continue to mail order.

Good thread, by the way....

AM
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by AE4X on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
My time to chime in. HRO in Delaware, Bob Penney. Good store, nice guy. Fun to go there although a little far from Roanoke, VA.
Gigaparts is a nice outfit to deal with, too.

Internet ordering is convenient, easy and fast.
Seeing the goods is always nicer, though.

Big question though: Which way will I prefer if ICOM ever drops their price for the 7800 down to say $6-7K..going in person to buy it or double clicking to receive it via FedEx with free shipping? Tough one.

Either way, enjoy what you buy and have fun with the hobby.

73.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N6PEH on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I am a firm believer in trying to do the smart thing. I buy when I can from our local HRO. They're nice folks and have always treated me well. The drive there is easy, so that's not an issue. The prices are competitive, BUT you take a bath on sales tax.

I recently bought an IC-703 from the local store. I could have saved $31 by going mail order. Well I decided it was worth it to me to spend the extra money to, 1) support the local store, and 2) what if something goes wrong with the rig.

Well something did go wrong with the rig. I reurned it with little to no hastle and was given a brand new radio. This happened in a matter of hours. It would have been weeks if I had gone the mail order route.

So I think I made the right decision, for the right reasons.

Buying demo units is a good way to save money. It's a good strategy if your light on money or just plain cheap. I prefer the brand new rigs, fresh out of the box. The smell, the protective plastic on the screen and so on...Mmmm!

Please keep your posts short, they're more apt to be read that way. HeeHee
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
There *were* more than 200 amateur retail stores in 1970, I have the old list. If you'd like, give me your personal e-mail address and I'll attach it for you.

I was also an amateur equipment dealer in 1970! I ran the ham radio department of a 3-store retail chain in the NJ-PA area, Federated Purchaser, which was a Class A dealership for Collins, as well as National, Clegg, Drake, Gonset, Hallicrafters, Hammarlund, Swan, Atlas, E.F. Johnson, Regency, Squires-Sanders and everybody else. You think there were *fewer* items to inventory back in those days? I respectfully disagree with that, by a mile.

My own store in Springfield, NJ had about 20,000 square feet of warehouse space, everything palletized or on stocking shelves up to the height of the 40' ceiling, of just ham and shortwave equipment. Of course, the entire warehouse was 120,000 square feet --so the ham gear only occupied about 1/6th of the available space (the rest was hi-fi/stereo; electronic components; tubes; electronic chassis and assemblies; rack panels and cabinets; you name it!), but this is a lot of stock.

We used "SKU" numbers to track items, even before the days of the PC, and I remember one inventory evening going until about 3AM because in the ham radio department alone we had over 2,200 SKUs. Today, a large chain dealer like HRO or AES might have that many -- maybe. Maybe not.

There were far more ham equipment manufacturers back in those days than there are now, and most had several models in production simultaneously. Remember the SR-150, SR-400, SR-500 and SR-2000? The HQ110A, HQ170A, HQ180A, HQ200, HQ215? The Clegg 99'er, 22'er, 66'er, Thor-IV, Venus, Zeus, Interceptor, Apollo? The NCX3, NCX5, NCX200, NCL2000? The KWM2 and 2A, 75S3B, 32S3, 516F2, 312B4, DL100, 30L1, 30S1, SM1, SM2, SM3 ad nauseum? The Drake R4A, T4, T4X, SW4, TR-4, TR-6, L4? And dozens and dozens of other items? These are all on the market at the same time, and we stocked all of them! Not to mention the "newfangled" Regency and Clegg stuff coming out for 2m FM. The big E.F. Johnson Invader2000s, down to the little 1W Personal Messengers. And the 100 different models of antennas from Hy-Gain, Mosley, Telrex, Swan, Wilson...

We also stocked towers and accessories from Rohn and Tristao...with the bases that weighed a lot. The "walk in" trade far outpaced any sort of mail-order sales, but of course most of the equipment was so heavy that shipping it would be very expensive.

But then, there was no reason to ship anything, because most hams lived within a short commute of a ham equipment dealer, back when there were more than two hundred of us...

WB2WIK/6
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB5DPE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Good Post Steve. You brought up some good points that I hadn't considered.

K0RGR, I wonder if you remember who was in that railroad station before HRO? That was a long time ago! It was also a Ham radio store called AMRAD, owned by John Steventon, W6CLS (SK). I frequented that store during the 60's and only lived a few miles away ( in San Mateo ). I remember those days as though it was yesterday. Also, do you remember Quement Electronics in San Jose? They were an electronics parts house, but, in the 60's, they also had a very nice ham department. And the surplus shops! Almost on every block. There wasn't much you couldn't find just a few miles away.

An interesting, enjoyable post that has brought back many pleasant memories.

73 Tom KB5DPE
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KG4YJR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In other articles and forums it's been mentioned that some of these stores ignore or are rude to the walk-in customers and prefer the telephone and Internet sales as those are made by people that have already made up their minds, they point, click, order and the whole order is completed in less than a minute per sale on the dealer's end and maybe 5 to 10 minutes on a phone order vs. a walk-in, chit-chat, test drive, show me this one, show me that one, kick the tires customer that can take up 20 to 45 minutes per sale.


73
Dave, KG4YJR
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2GOF on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I buy from HRO, & AES, but I live too far away to go to any of their stores. In fact, here on Long Island, NY, there is a drought of ham stores. So your saying that by NOT visiting these stores but buying online, I am NOT supporting them? RUBBISH!
I buy from who I want & when I want. I've bought new rigs from the big three (AES, HRO, & TT), but I've also bought used rigs at flea markets, hamfests, and even here on eHam's classifieds. In fact, I've even bought stuff on eBay!
In the 20+ years I've been buying equipment, both new and used, I've only been taken once, and that was at a local hamfest. So it's all luck of the draw, as far as I'm concerned. America is a free country. Buy from whomever you like! It's your money.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB5DPE on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Dsve,

I can't speak for the majority of situations, but, after recently returning to ham radio after a, nearly, forty year absence, my visits to the only ham store in my area, AES in Cleveland, have been very pleasant. Plenty of time to demonstrate and explain, pleasant, friendly people. Lots of literature, etc.

While I'm only about 35 miles away, it's a rather slow, congested 35 miles, so my visits are infrequent; thouge the fun of brousing through all that tempting gear is as much fun as it was nearly forty years ago.

I, too, mourn the loss of so many of the ham radio stores AND real parts stores that used to be common in every community (at least where I've lived).

Time marches on, though, not always for the better!

73 Tom KB5DPE
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N1VLQ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As usual, Steve, thanks for the article. Your insight is always appreciated, and I know I'll enjoy reading any article you post here. Even if it may or may not apply to me. Kinda like this one, which I knew straight away, from the title.

Like many others, I live too far away from a ham radio store to be able to regularly frequent one. Nearest one is HRO, 3-4 hours away. (Yes, in tax-free New Hampshire..."Live Free Or Die") Fortunately, being "only" that far away, regular UPS ground from them is in actuality "next day" for me, if I order early enough in the day. No extra charge for fast delivery!

They've been quite easy to deal with, in my experience. Would I like to be able to drive in and check out stuff in person, yes. But short of that, having them ship it to me at least supports their brick-and-mortar business.

I have another thing to think about for those who DO have the option of buying locally, especially those who are worried about buying the demo, with who knows how many hours on it. Compare the risk of that, versus the risk of UPS shipping damage when ordering via the internet.

Where I work, we receive between 5 and 30 pieces from UPS each day. Occasionally more. And I have seen boxes arrive in amazing condition. The beating that boxes take in a typical UPS shipment is amazing.

(This is not an indictment of UPS. For the most part, what they do, and the way they do it, is amazing. It is simply a statement of fact, based on the sheer numbers of packages that they handle, and the number of times they handle them.)

And I dare you to try and get easy satisfaction from UPS on a damage claim. So if you do go and buy that 7800, and have it shipped, won't you be at least a little apprehensive? Compared to the amount hours that the same unit might have been used in the store? Not quite cut and dried, is it?

Thanks again, Steve. You keep writing, and I'll keep reading. And usually learning something in the process.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB7X on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you for reminding me of some "good times". I make no comment on the pros or cons of the Local Dealer vs mail order or Internet order, but years ago we would get some local hams together for a joy ride from Springfield IL to AES Milwaukee, Ham Radio Center St. Louis, or Henry Butler MO. It was as much about the fellowship of the trip as it was about buying the equipment. Some of the guys are SKs now, and your post gives rise to the memories. By the way, we did a lot of business with Henry Radio because they would self finance. Hopefully thats not why they aren't around anymore!
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB1LKR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
...If there is one (the biggies included) reasonably nearby.

I guess I'm lucky as HRO in NH is only 20mi up the interstate and over the border from me, so it's an easy trip, plus NH, unlike its neighbor to the south, has no sales tax.

If there's not one near (as its the case for many) then it's the 'net or phone, at least for new.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N6AJR on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I buy most of my stuff from HRO Oakland Ca, Mark, Vern and the crew are pretty good folks, knowledgable about most of the gear, and make a good pot of coffee. They often have in-store specials, and I enjoy the visits with them and my fellow hams I meet there ( I spent 8 hours there on Icom days, and won a hat, !!, and bought a couple of things.) HRO also supports us, as the always donate some things and some books for our anual christmas party at the local ham club..

I also buy used gear from fellow hams (some times even in HRO, but I give them first refusal..) and at ham fest locally ( like a alpha 76 this last weekend and 5 2 meter ssb antennas from a 4 ele quad to a 17 ele boomer..)

I even buy from Ebay quite often, if it is what I need or want and the price is right . I like buying and selling gear almost as much as using it..

nice article, 73
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WN2A on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Agree Totally-
Case in point - Jersey local, Gene K2KJI and his people will go out of their way to make the customer happy. I have seen him do it over and over again.
It actually adds to the whole amateur "experience" especially for newbies.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC9DQQ on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, for my $0.02 worth, I am fortunate to have a real small-business ham radio store in the area: the Amateur Radio Toy Store in Wheaton, IL.
On general principles I buy anything I can from Roberto, WA9E ... I like having his store available when I need something ... his prices are reasonable, service is fantastic, and for a ham this is the equivalent of a hardware store to hang out at ... met a lot of other hams I might never have met otherwise, what is not to love about this picture ?
I would rather pay a few bucks more to a local ham than save a few bucks and find myself in a world where there is nowhere to go but a few huge nationwide chainstores !
www.amateur-radio-toy-store.com
73 to all,
phil
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KD5ALU on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N7NRA sayes..."I don't think the Phoenix HRO store does a very large amount of business. I'd suspect that they're subsidized a bit by the mail order end of the business. In other words, if I buy mail order from an outfit that has local stores, I'm still supporting the local dealer, right?"

Not really. If the store does not do much business then they are loosing money for the company. If they do less business because the peolpe of Pheonix order from HRO on the internet instead of going to the local storefront the the store becomes too much of a loss to the company and will be closed. Now the 8 people (pulling a number out of the hat) who were employed at that location are now unemployeed. And all because people prefered to avoid a few dollars sales tax or did not want to get out of thier chair and drive to the store.

I wish I had a store that I could get hands on experience before I bought a radio. Texas Towers is a 4 hr drive from where I am in Oklahoma and HRO is 13 hours away to Denver. If you have a storefront in the same town, feel lucky and use it.

Kelly
KD5ALU
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KD5JFT on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In Oklahoma City, we only have one ham radio dealer. Very small shop, limited items in stock, very friendly owner and his wife who run the place. Before I order anything, I always call them and ask if they have it. They almost never do, but I have to give them a chance. I would rather buy face-to-face than mail order, but in a world of limited choices, that is most of the time the only choice. I have bought radios and/or parts from K&E Electronics (local), HRO, AES, Memphis Radio, and Texas Towers. All have given me all of the customer service I could ever ask for, including answering stupid questions.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WW0H on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'd love to be a few hours from one of the big dealers. As I said in my earlier post, Burghardt's in Watertown, SD is the closest and it will take most of the day to get there, so it will be a two day trip to visit. But when I buy my next new rig, which I hope will be fairly soon, that's where I'm headed. Many of us in the Great Plains have a Looooong way to any ham radio store, unless you are near Denver or KC. And our population makes the possibility of a small dealer having any gear in stock next to non-existent.

Support your local dealer.
 
What local dealer?  
by WB4M on September 9, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Not one close by for me, at least one that carries much of anything other than 2 meter stuff.. I try to make it to local hamfests but they stink. I really don't have any choice, I have to use HRO, AES, etc.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N3ZKP on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Tom:

<< And the surplus shops! Almost on every block. >>

We had a big one in Modesto when I was in high school. I practically lived at the place!

Lon
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC8VWM on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"A) The "ham" stores in Buffalo are glorified CB shops
B) New York State TAX is insane. "

Funny you mentioned that. I used to travel from Toronto, Ontario to Buffalo because the ham radio stores seemed to have better deals at the time.

I used to have a good relationship with the owner of Durham Radio "Keith" In fact, I still have some radio equipment I purchased from that store.

Steve is right about the fact that when you build a personal relationship with the store owners, you tend to get the "inside scoop" on the latest deals.

I now shop at Universal. I am the kind of customer that comes in to the Candy Store and hangs out for a long time checking every piece of equipment out getting my eyes full.

I always make a point of buying something. Shopping in person always provides me with an opportunity to meet other local hams too!

Great article.

73

Charles - KC8VWM
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC8VWM on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<< And the surplus shops! Almost on every block. >>

We had a big one in Modesto when I was in high school. I practically lived at the place! <<<

Hams are really alike in many ways. I used to go (live)in a surplus store called "Rama Surplus"

I would literally spend hours in the place sifting over radio junk. They had retired military radio gear, radar equipment, and everything else in between.

I actually remember the first time I went there. I bought a shortwave radio reciever. It was a real piece of junk.. just the way I liked them!

Later that day they announced on that same radio that Elvis died. So it must have been 1977.

73

Charles - KC8VWM
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by OBSERVER on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Let’s see 800 miles divided by 20 miles per gallon times $2.00 per gallon equals $80.00 for gasoline. Food for the trip, two meals $10.00 ea equals $20.00. So far we are up to $100.00 for the trip. The radio costs $2200.00 plus 6% sales tax equals $2332.00. Total cost of a wasted Saturday driving 12 plus hours to a dealer to purchase the radio for $2432.00. Order the radio online (HRO) shipped to my doorstep $2200.00 plus a Saturday free to do something else. For $232.00 I’d rather stay home and order online. If I want to meet new local hams, I’ll spend the Saturday afternoon working the local repeaters.

I think the 1985 IROCs were first offered in 1984. Your 1982 Camero was probably a Z28.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WA2JJH on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have to agree with KB2HSH. Certain parts of the U.S.A, it is not practical.

Steve, much has changed here In NYC.

You remember the choices

1)Harrison (out of biz 25 years ago. 8 Barkly

2)Barry...New tiny local, no stock, they have a ham work there 1-2 days a week!
I used to work there back in 1978@512 BWAY.
3)45th street....gone!

4)Lafayette@ 16th street used to stock DRAKE, AMECHO,
and HYGAIN.....RIP around 1980 Harvey radio.

To add salt and triple damages to the wound....8.25%
sales tax.

Yes, I do agree it is a win-win situation when you buy used from a ham near your QTH. One can really test drive the rig. You also may make a new friend.

New..I use GIGAPARTS. When all is said and done, I save 30% in sales tax and Barrys all most full list price on ham gear.
Barry old staff are SK's. Except for the repair guys,
nobody knows the equipment. Barry at the old location would be packed with hams on both sides of the sales counter.

I get decent deals on EBAY, if I use a BID-SNIP service or software. I have not been ripped off....yet!

I purchased an ultra rare DRAKE R-7A for under $1000
shipped to my door. I did use bid-snipe. You have too these days.


Yes, Steve I do miss the Saturday's at Barry's.
Except for the sales tax, the prices were good. Everybody got to play with the latest HF rig there.
We all knew each other.

There were few chronic nodnicks that made Barry their shack!!!! The dudes that would ask you hours of questions, only to buy mail order! As soon as thier mail order rig broke, they were the first to see if we would honer the 90 day card for free repair!
It felt so good to say SURE!....Lets see your receipt from us!!!



 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by DROLLTROLL on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!


"Later that day they announced on that same radio that Elvis died. So it must have been 1977."

HOGWASH!! Why just the other day I saw Elvis at a truckstop buying a TurboDeluxe 5000 channel CB radio, the high powered version.

Geesh.... some people refuse to believe that Elvis is still alive.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K0RGR on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I didn't know AMRAD Supply but my dad did. They were in Oakland in the 50's weren't they? I remember him taking me there when I was in grade school. He may have taken us to the other place, too - I remember us going to a ham store on that side of the Bay once and having a car problem when I was real young, but that is all.

I remember Quement's - "The Bascom Bandit" very well. Many paychecks were deposited in that 'bank'. I probably still have one of their SWR bridges with the big Q on the front. I grew up just east of Meridian Ave. in the 60's.

My purchases in the last 8 - 10 years: 4 HF rigs, 3 used, one new, two from AES Milwaukee, two from ads on eham.com. Three HT's, all from Radio City, Blaine, MN.. Why? I only buy HF rigs I know already. If that means I go somewhere to see it, so be it - I have driven to Milwaukee and farther to see them - for the price of an HF rig, it is worth it. In this case, the biggest buy was an IC-746, a well-known commodity.

Likewise, an HT is worthless to me if I can't read the displays and the buttons, and if it doesn't feel right in my hand. Radio City has virtually all of them on display, as well most kinds available used, and the sales tax on a $200 HT won't kill me.

I can't drive by a ham dealer without stopping if I know I'm in the area and they're open. I'll at least buy a magazine or two.

Yes, there is a downside to dealers. I have twice called Radio City to ask if they have something in stock and made the trip to get it, only to find out they didn't really have it! Both those occasions were over a decade ago, and I've had good sevice since, but I won't make that mistake again! Milwaukee isn't that much farther!
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by GM7CXM on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Another nice article, Steve.

I had never considered the "buy the one you tried" idea. Certainly the pros are well stated.

I buy from all kinds of places, my local shop (Scatter Radio Valencia) included. It's close by to work, they are hams, I often buy small bits and pieces from them. They have no quibble about me buying things off internet if I can get them cheaper (a LOT cheaper, do US hams realise how much gear costs outside the US?), indeed when I wanted to buy a filter for my 706, I was advised by the owner to buy from a foreign dealer. I paid EUR 100 instead of the EUR 240 which was the lowest he could offer. But for other things, the local shop is best.

I grew up in a rural area and I am sure if I'd had a local shop nearby, I'd have gotten started quicker and been better advised. I had to learn by my mistakes instead!

In a nutshell, dealers have reasons to continuing to exist, alongside other methods of purchase.

BTW can anyone tell me where Barry Electronics is now? Last time I was in NY I tried to find them at their old location but no go...

73 de Duncan EA5ON / GM7CXM



 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K5UJ on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
<<<Let’s see 800 miles divided by 20 miles per gallon times $2.00 per gallon equals $80.00 for gasoline. Food for the trip, two meals $10.00 ea equals $20.00. So far we are up to $100.00 for the trip. The radio costs $2200.00 plus 6% sales tax equals $2332.00. Total cost of a wasted Saturday driving 12 plus hours to a dealer to purchase the radio for $2432.00. Order the radio online (HRO) shipped to my doorstep $2200.00 plus a Saturday free to do something else. For $232.00 I’d rather stay home and order online. If I want to meet new local hams, I’ll spend the Saturday afternoon working the local repeaters>>>

Yeah but, are you having fun? The above reads like a recipe for a real good-time Charlie. No wonder I see so many happy faces in flea markets. If I cost-analyzed everything like this I'd be as happy as a guest on Jerry Springer's show. You only live once.

Re cost of gear outside U.S., yes it is horrible what equipment and materials cost in Canada, VK and Europe. If I were a ham outside of W/K I'd probably have 1/4 what I have here. I wish something could be done about this. Don't know about costs in JA.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KA4KOE on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
The last time I was in a local dealer's shop was in Oct 2000, at the HRO in Atlanta, on our first wedding anniversary.

Also remember that they started bombing Afghanistan while we were inside Six Flags that weekend. FUN FUN FUN!!

P
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N8UZE on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
As far as I'm concerned, if the store is not within 50 miles, it can hardly be counted as "local". When you get to talking about all day for a round trip, it definitely isn't local.

In many parts of the country, there are no "local" stores.

Here in the Detroit area, we now have no local ham store. It closed a couple of years ago. Some of the CB stores have a few ham accessories like antennas but there isn't really any place that has a large selection of anything ham related.

I do go to AES in Cleveland occasionally but definitely do not count that as local.

 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I surely agree not everybody has anything that might be considered a "local" dealer. But, a lot of us do, and many continue to buy on-line, anyway.

Each to his own!

The sad part for me is that while "today" there are "no local dealers" in many parts of the country, if you turn the clock back 40 years, in many of these "ham store free zones" there *were* dealers, back then. They went out of business.

As an avid user of the web since my old Compuserve days 11-12 years ago -- and as short a time as that is, check and you'll see that 99% of the dealers we use regularly for iBusiness didn't even have websites back then -- I enjoy the internet for all sorts of stuff. But rare is the case where I can find a "deal" that is better than the local one, off-line.

Every web-based travel service, including hotel and car reservations, airlines and everything else I use does *not* provide me with the best deal I can find, not by a long shot. Just last week I had to make travel arrangements for two weeks from now, and I wasted an hour on line doing all the research, only to determine that directly calling every company (the airline, the hotel, the car rental company) yielded a better deal: All I had to do is ask for one.

I saved $335 by spending ten minutes on the telephone, after wasting 60 minutes on line to find the "best" possible deals. It was hilarious that Holiday Inn's own website for reservations and bookings links you directly to a third party whose rates are all about 15% higher than the hotel's own rates, if you just call them. I wonder who falls for this crap?

<sigh>

WB2WIK/6
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N7XB on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
One more added plus for shopping at our local Portland (Tigard) Oregon HRO store - No Sales Tax in Oregon!

But we do have doctor-assisted suicide here, so if you don't like the deal you got and want to end it all, Oregonians are here eager and willing to help . . .

73 de Bruce N7XB
Portland ("Little Beirut"), Oregon
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by HF2PWA on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
'THE POINT IS KE2IV, IS THAT YOU HAVE HAMS LIKE STEVE, THAT TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE ARTICALS!!!!!!

UNLIKE YOU, A BOTTOM FEEDING TROLL RAT BASTARD!

NOT ALL OF STEVES WORK IS GREAT, SOME IS COMMON KNWOLEDGE. HOWEVER HE TAKES THE EFFORT.

ALL YOU DO IS PICK ON THE MORE PROLIFIC WRITERS ON EHAM.

YOUR A GRADE A POS ON A MOLDY SESAEMI SEED BUN!

73 AND HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!! ;)))
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by W3DCG on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
In general, my basic economic philosophy instilled by my small businessman step dad:

Buy Local as much as possible.
This helps to infuse the local economy, and is good for the overall health of a community.
If not possible, keep try keeping it in County, next State.
Not possible, try keeping it in the country.
Not possible, well, hey, you tried, right?

As for me, I follow this as much as possible.
I try to buy food and gas in the town where I live. It happens to cost the least there anyway!

Unfortunately, when it comes to high ticket items, which I buy either on a try it out at the local market store first (even if it's Home Depot or Lowe's, or Sears, Ace Hardware, etc)-- I lately don't buy big ticket items. If I do, it's local by virtue of what it is, ie, DAYCARE SCHOOLING, LESSONS of some kind for the kids, educational materials for them...

To the extent, that if I'm so lucky to have some kind of wind fall enabling a relatively high ticket item, several hundred dollars for example, likely it'll be Ham Radio something or another!

But- the sales taxes here in any county amount to a significant difference, on funds that rarely exceed a couple hundred bucks in the kitty at a shot. Hence, OnLine from either GigaParts or AES = significant savings, and I usually get even the smallest order (some coax for example, couple jumpers) within 48 hours!

Well, Huntsville to Atlanta many would construe as "Local." But there is an HRO here. However, their prices never beat Giga, and I'd have to pay over 5% tax.

So I totally agree with Steve, but in practice, for now, I can't afford to buy local. Although I have spent hundreds of dollars at the Buford Hwy HRO over the last 3 years. I still support them, but my next rig will not be purchased from there. Besides, I went in to demo a rig, was seriously going to walk out with either a 718 or 570, something entry level, couple years ago. Not one rig had a paddle connected.
And no one seemed to care to help me hook one up.
Instead they tried to steer me towards a Mark 5, WAY out of budget!

If you guys aren't gonna hook up even a straight key for me, then there exists no DEMO for me with ya'll.
So anyway, I have my favorite person there now, and I'm either going to deal with him or not at all.

73.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K3UD on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Can't disagree much with anything in the article. If I am buying new or high value used I do it at The Hamstation in Evansville IN. Great guys to do usiness with. I also do business with HRO Delaware, also great to deal with, as I get out that way a few times a year. I certainly do not mind purchasing the demo that I just tried and found that I liked.

Relatively inexpensive items are usually purchased on eBay, or through the various online swapmeets, or hamfests. On several high value purchases acquired via online swapmeets or on the air swap nets I have, and will, drive several hundred miles each way to have a chance to see and demo the item.

If there Is a high value item on eBay I want, and it is within 300 miles or so I will ask that if I am the highest bidder I will come to pick it up and receive a demo before payment to let it be know than if it is not as advertised, he can repost it. I have never received a positive response to this and have never made a high value purchase there.

My wife trains and shows dogs in obedience and agility. We will certainly make a weekend trip to see the dog she is interested in before the price is paid. Most people who breed dogs for these activities are always ready to welcome you to their kennels. If it does not work out for some reason, we have had a nice weekend trip and hopefully made a contact and friend for the next time.


73
George
K3UD
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KC0KM_EX_GFISHER on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I've been a ham since 1966 and have always purchased my radios, towers, beams, rotators and accessories locally.

But I've had some unpleasant experiences with Radio City in a northern suburb of Minneapolis. They are often overpriced, they don't have very good in-stock quantities and they only allow 65% of book value on trades no matter how mint your equipment ... even though they will be making a big profit on the new or consignment equipment for which one is trading plus paying the cash difference. Even though I've been a good customer, and would have continued to be a good customer, I haven't found them to be especially friendly or helpful. Each time I've made the 42 mile trip each way, to and from the store, I think I'd be better off purchasing over the internet. My most recent experience with Radio City absolutely made me decide to use the internet in the future unless I need something immediately for a contest and have to buy locally.

When I first became a ham we had a great place to buy ham equipment in Minneapolis called Electronics Center. I bought a lot of gear there ... Collins S-Line, Drake, towers, beams, rotators, even a big model 28ASR teletype. They were always friendly and very helpful. Radio City is hit and miss. Once in a while I'll get a salesperson who seems to care but most of the time they seem indifferent and uninterested in looking up answers to questions I ask that they can't answer ... such as "do you have the original instruction manual for this consignment gear?" when all they have to do is walk behind the counter to look it up.

Nope, I've supported my local ham radio dealers since 1966 but no more. I want to be treated as if my business is appreciated and if I can save the 7 1/2% sales tax in the process that's just a nice bonus. We Minnesotans pay very high taxes so I don't feel guilty about buying a radio from a out-of-state deaelr where I am not charged sales tax.
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N1XV on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I live in a nice rare state,Montana. No one lives here and no one has set up shop as a ham dealer. I guess I have a really good excuse to purchase via phone and internet! 73 Vaughn-N1XV
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N7BUI on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oregon's HRO in Portland is outstanding. I try to make the trek up to the area a couple of times a month (100 miles one way) and always stop in to chat and listen in on the Pro II I'm going to buy sooner or later. Nice work guys!
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
N1XV, you're almost right: Nobody does live there! :)

I checked the census and find that Montana's going backwards in terms of population growth. I suppose in 50 years or so, there may indeed be nobody there...

Interestingly, my little corner of L.A. (San Fernando Valley) has a population about 50% greater than that of the state of Montana (1.5 million vs. 917,000). But we *do* have a few ham radio stores locally, so it all works out.

I've really enjoyed the comments here and can understand everybody's point of view. With any luck, maybe some of the "bad attitude" dealers will stumble across this, read the comments, and change their ways: Especially if they want to stay in business!

If so, then the article was worthwhile. I'll keep shopping locally for everything, because I enjoy it.

73!

Steve WB2WIK/6

 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by X-WB1AUW on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Nice prose. As usual, well constructed.

An easy way to support local dealers is simply just give them some of your money (don’t buy anything, just give them monetary support; gives them an almost infinite return on their investment!).

One thing I have tried is to bring them the total cost I’d have to pay for an item, and ask how close they will get if I buy from them. Many local dealers won’t lower their price, so I buy else where. If they get hostile, some do, when I ask them to come close to the price I can buy at, I simply never go back.

If I wanted to support the local dealer, I could just send him a check for a percentage of what I saved by not buying from him.

“Course, there isn’t a local ham radio dealer here in Tucson. Their is (was?) a local who can order gear, but from my point of view, he is unreliable, and dishonest.

73
Bob
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KB5DPE on September 10, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
K0RGR,

The store in Oakland was ELMAR Electronics. They, too, were primarily a parts house, but, I'm told, had quite a nice ham depatrment. I never made it to that store. AMRAD was in that old train station in Burlingame that you described (to my delight!), before John Steventon retired and sold it to HRO. As anyone reading this can see, the Bay Area of California was a hotbed of electronics activity decades before "Silicon Valley". Eimac in San Carlos, Litton Industries in San Carlos, IBM in San Jose, to name just a few.

I'm delighted to read that many regions had similar areas and many hams experienced the same sense of "discovery" that can only be experienced by visiting a "surplus store".

73 Tom KB5DPE
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by AE6IP on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
> I live in a nice rare state,Montana. No one lives
> here and no one has set up shop as a ham dealer. I
> guess I have a really good excuse to purchase via
> phone and internet! 73 Vaughn-N1XV

The Radio Shack in Anaconda used to have ham gear, and not just rat-shack stuff. He stopped carrying it when people stopped buying it.

Marty (who grew up in SW MT, and was there last week)
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N5YPJ on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
It took me a while to learn this also, and thanks to a fellow ham for recomending our local dealer, Kcomm. The service dept is a lot easier to deal with than the factory's, you get to talk to a human being, you can get hands on on used equipment. The sales staff knows what is selling and why, and also what may not be selling.

Better late than never, my ham $s are spent at Kcomm.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KK7AC on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Is the the bash GM group??

I've always had great service from my GM trucks over the years. My trusty ole 73 chevy went 260,000 on one engine......and I bought it used from someone I did not know. Lemmons come in all shapes and sizes.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KK7AC on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Oh ya, one other thing to point out...NEVER buy fisrt model year of any vehicle! That was your first mistake I believe.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2GOF on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK/6,
1) 40 years ago, I was three years old.
2) Time marches on. To stay in business today, you have tobe flexible, creative, & roll with the punches. My uncle owns an electronics business (parts-related) which began as a salesman type operation, and now most of his orders are via the internet or telephone. While I can sympathize with local dealers, to me there are few to none locally. eBay, eBiz or the phone are the only ways for me to get Amateur equipment today.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N1EY on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
:I also consider that if I walk into a store, I am
:subject to sales tax that I might be exempt from
:through mail order.

I would just like to point out something to
the many individuals out there. Although
you did not pay sales tax at the point of
sale, said sale is still subject to the taxes
of your jurisdiction in 99% of the United
States. You are still subjected to the
county, local, various districts, and state
taxes out there.

In today's climate it is better to pay
sales tax at the point of sale then receive
a letter in mail about the tax due.

HRO has conveniently opened their store
in NH. The drive from VT, ME, MA, and RI
is actually very tolerable for many hams.
All of these hams are willing to travel
for an hour to two hours to purchase
radio gear without sales tax at HRO.
I don't know of any other decent radio
store in the New England area save for
Lentini Communications.

I feel this is due to people's greed and
desire to save sales tax. Many have
killed the local business over 5%-6%
which YOU STILL OWE.

Bill
N1EY



 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K1CJS on September 11, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well, I don't know......

I bought a rig from a local man when I was newly licensed. The rig was older and worked well, but it didn't have the tone capability I needed for using it with my local repeater. When I found out this fact, I returned to the man and asked why he told me I'd have no problem using the rig with all the local machines, and wanted to trade it for another rig that had a tone board--I told him I knew it would cost more--he refused to even talk to me about it. His words amounted to "You bought it, it's yours now, and I won't ever consider taking it back--not even in trade."

I still have that rig--I use it when I can. But I learned an important lesson that day--don't ever trust a local small shop man. I've since bought equipment from HRO and even over E-Bay, and the only time I had a problem--the rig came from an E-Bayer--the problem was taken care of quickly, and happily I may add, by the seller--and at his expense! 73!
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KL7IPV on September 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Ah, yes. I remember the "old days". I would drive from Chino to Riverside, CA. to Mission Ham Supply and drool. I bought there since they were "local". I also went to Henrys in Anahiem, and others. I stopped going to Mission ONLY when they stopped being a ham dealer and became a CB dealer. I still buy locally from AES. I also call others not local (Gigaparts, HRO - Denver and Anahiem) but prefer to deal locally. Tax? Shipping? they usually balance out so there isn't a real saving by buying out of state.
I called Gigaparts before I bought my IC-706 MkIIG and the MFJ-259. They suggested that I buy from AES locally since AES would match their price and I would have the local dealer to have if I had a problem with the purchase. That says a lot for the Gigparts people. If I buy out of state anytime soon, it will from the Gigaparts guys.
If AES doesn't have what I need here, they can get if from one of their other stores. When all is said and done, supporting your local dealer usually results in better deals and the dealer can stay alive. Maybe your buy will keep them going just one more day. For me, supporting a local dealer can mean even one that is an hour or two drive from home. I am fortunate that I have a choice. I want to keep that capability as long as I can.
73
Frank
KL7IPV
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by AB0ZE on September 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I'd love to...unfortunately, can't. In my home state, the only "amateur radio" dealers are truckstops selling export rigs. Unfortunately, the nearest dealer to me is HRO in Denver...not that I'm averse to driving out there now and again (it's < 600 miles), but I've only managed to get by it on a SUNDAY when they're not even open!!!

Blech.

Excellent point though...

And to the writer who asked whether the original author would also support not going to WalMart to give the local stores a boost...dunno 'bout him, but I sure would. Learned it at my daddy's knee. Those folks running your local drugstores & appliance stores & whatever that you're taking money away from by going to Wally-World are your neighbors. They're investing money back into your community. And WalMart? Not that I have anything against the Walton family...Sam was a genius and a very ethical businessman. However THEY certainly don't need any more of my money.

That in and of itself is an excellent reason to support your local dealer, if you've got one.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WB2WIK on September 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I have nothing against Wal-Mart, but I certainly don't mail-order anything from them. The City of Los Angeles obviously has something against Wal-Mart, as they've stonewalled every effort for the big chain to build anything here, with only one exception. I do go to that one. I'm happy to support my local Wal-Mart, and the many teens and oldsters they employ, who were unemployed before the superstore was built.

WB2WIK/6



 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by KE5BTA on September 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
You know I totally agree on this. I have always advocated supporting local business when two major factors are present.

1) Their pricing is competitive. This means that I would expect it to be within a few percent of the price of a larger discount retailer. I expect to pay more for the service I would get. I will not go to a local dealer who cannot either control costs, or just gouges the customers.

2) CUSTOMER SERVICE is important to the dealer. This is EXTREMELY important. I'll elaborate on this more here.

I have a retailer who is local to me whom I want to do every piece of business with than anyone else. They are fairly large and well known, and I tend to get what I need if I go there. Their prices are extremely competitive as well!

The only time I have ever had decent customer service was when I bought my first radio from them at a ham conference. The guy I talked to spent a good deal of time with me discussing the merits of the different radios and helping me make a decision which I ultimately did! It was a great experience.

Now, I have been into the store several times since then, talked to the SAME guy, and its like he had a totally different attitude. Is it personality? Probably that plays into it. Is it the guy's fault he is not an award winning sales person? No, but it would be nice to have the person put on a different face when dealing with customers. I have YET to be recognized either by face, name or call. It also seems that every time I go in there, I am met with an attitude of indifference. Its not to the point where I am a hassle because I am a customer (give it time...), but it is pretty blatant.

Oh also, you might just come in at the right time where this mysterious voice is carrying beyond a visible barrier either talking to someone on the phone, or barking at employees on the sales floor. I have a voice that carries so I understand how disruptive it can be. But I also respect customers enough to keep the atmosphere pleasant!

Course, cluttered sales room, bad lighting, bins of random junk don't help make a pleasing sales experience either (all of which plague this place... And they have a REALLY nice tower out back too! Unfortunate.)

Because this place does not seem to want my business, I have very little desire to go back there except as a last resort for emergency repairs/parts. Since I am in a metropolitan area I don't have to wait long or pay large sums of money for expidited shipping. I like to give my business to someone who WANTS it. I called 10 different places when I was putting together the initial pricing for the rig I am going to buy. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $2000. Sure did not seem to matter for this particular one (among others). I did find a couple of vendors that I will be extremely happy to do business with, and most likely will on my first very large purchase.

(Hey, can you tell I have a Marketing undergrad?)

Anyway, Great article. I advocate try before you buy, and if you have a good experience, reward that sales person for spending the time with you by purchasing from them. I will not at any time (not just for ham gear btw) patronize a business that does not really seem to want my business--local or not.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K6TLA on September 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Although I have purchased a few items from my local dealer and have received excellent customer service, buying from a distant dealer does make sense. With local sales tax here soon to skirt 9% substantial savings are realized by purchasing from a distant dealer. Not buying locally isn't going to hurt the local dealer because he is going to be selling to similiarly situtated hams in distant areas. Government constantly asks for more while doing less for the people that are paying the taxes so why not raise a middle finger to them and do the deal elsewhere? Let your bloated state government eat cake! All else said the equipment is the same and while you won't get it the same day, tomorrow or the next day is just fine.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by K6TLA on September 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Although I have purchased a few items from my local dealer and have received excellent customer service, buying from a distant dealer does make sense. With local sales tax here soon to skirt 9% substantial savings are realized by purchasing from a distant dealer. Not buying locally isn't going to hurt the local dealer because he is going to be selling to similiarly situtated hams in distant areas. Government constantly asks for more while doing less for the people that are paying the taxes so why not raise a middle finger to them and do the deal elsewhere? Let your bloated state government eat cake! All else said the equipment is the same and while you won't get it the same day, tomorrow or the next day is just fine.
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N0TONE on September 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
I had an unexpected opportunity to try out WB2WIK's advice.

I'm always "on the make" to try out different rigs. I do a fair amount of customization of radios to suit different operators' needs - multi-multi station interference reduction, low-vision audible readouts, etc. I enjoy using lots of different rigs, even though I don't own a lot of them.

What I wanted to do was to compare several different new radios with ones that I am familiar with. Between my several shacks and those of friends from whose stations I operate, I regularly spend time with the Elecraft K2, Yaesu FT-1000D, Ten-Tec Omni D, Icom IC-761, 765 and 756. I have a good sense of what each rig will do under certain circumstances.

So, when a pal of mine said he was going to an HRO Saturday and would I like to tag along, I jumped at the chance. You see, the nearest HRO to us is 400 miles, and the trip involved a Cessna 210...I think it was a 210 anyway, it was a siz-place bird with retractable gear.

I spent four hours at the store. The guys were nice, and helpful, and customer service was as good as it could be. But it wasn't enough. They had NONE of the radios there that I could use as a comparison. They had an FT-1000MP MkV. I'd have enjoyed comparing it to the 1000D, but there wasn't a D in the store. Similarly, while they had an IC-756 Pro II, they did not have any Icoms I was already familar with. And of course, they did not have a K2.

So, for me, a trip to the "candy store" cannot give me the ability to compare rigs that I need in order to decide on a purchase. So I will simply continue to depend on what I've always done - I travel to the station of a ham that already owns what I'm interested in buying and I use it on the air, in comparison with something else I already know.

The only better option I can think of would be to be able to borrow the rig and use it at my own station. I don't think any ham store has ever done that, but it would go a long ways toward letting guys know how a rig would really operate in their specific situation.

AM
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N1EY on September 14, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Just to clarify Sales Tax.
I did already mention this.
People seem to think that
they don't have to pay
sales tax on purchases
made by mail-order. Most
states have provisions
to tax these purchases.

No one should base a
purchase decision on
the basis of sales tax.
Chances are 99% that you
owe sales tax.

Bill
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WA2JJH on September 15, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
i might travel 400 miles for a 2 day hamfest.
A so called local store, NFW!
 
RE: Support Your Local Dealer!  
by NN6EE on September 16, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Well heck! I'd "walk a mile for a CAMEL!!!"

:-)))
 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by WV7R on September 18, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
Back in the late 1980's Seattle had three Ham Radio Stores. Washington also had a state sales tax of about 5.4% if I recall. Over the years, that tax rate has increased to the current 8.9% in places.

As mail order, then 800-number ordering and finally the internet made buying out-of-state easier and UPS and others allowed for over-night delivery in most cases, the local radio stores lost more and more customers. Sure... locals would show up and look at the rigs, but then many would purchase them from out of state sources such as HRO, AES and others to avoid paying the ever-increasing tax.

On a $2000 rig, you would save close to $200. Fairly attractive economics by most anyone's standards. So now we have our current situation here in the Seattle area.. a metropolitan area of 2.5 million people including about 5000 hams.

Currently, we have a CB-oriented store that sells some Alinco amateur products, another Alinco dealer over on the West side of Puget Sound that mainly sells at hamfests, and a limited dealer in fairly close-by Arlington that sells some Icom equipment if you call them first so they can have it shipped in. They do not stock much HF.

The problem in this state is the economics of buying locally. Outlets such as HRO can sell for less, they do not have to collect Washington sales tax, and they have an 800 number. For major purchases I will go down there and fondle it. For things like HTs and mobiles, I will order one, and then if I do not care for it, I will sell it on eHam, QRZ or eBay. Sure, you lose a bit in that sort of transaction, but no more than the gas it would have cost for a 380 mile round trip to Portland. Besides, this way you do get to play with the radio for an extended period of time before making up your mind as to whether or not to keep it.

If we had a local ham store again, I would support it. I was a steady customer of Radio Depot, the last real Ham Store Seattle has seen in a while.

But, as one writer noted, not all situations are the same. You cannot paint all the "support your local ham store" arguments with the same brush strokes. Just too many other factors to consider.

 
Support Your Local Dealer!  
by N2CTZ on November 4, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
why should i

1.waste my time driving in traffic wasting gas and paying local sales tax when i can order it on line and save Always over 200 dollars

2, If i was given the same price and my local dealer would deliver the radio to my door then i would support him

i am no Teresa Heinz no catsup freeloader just a working stiff
 
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