History of Amateur Invention
Martin Fouts (AE6IP)
on
October 7, 2004
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I am doing a research project on the history of amateur invention.
At this point, after some research, I am coming up cold on a particular kind of invention. I have found no amateurs acting only as amateurs inventing technology later adopted outside of the amateur service. Where amateurs have been involved in invention, they seem to have done so as part of their job function as professionals, rather than as part of their hobby.
I am aware of the inventions by amateurs used only within the amateur service. I am also aware of inventions by amateurs working in their professional capacity.
What I am looking for is examples of amateurs, acting only as amateurs, inventing technology that was later adopted outside the amateur community.
Any period in radio history will do, although I am particularly interested in any contribution since the introduction of SSB.
Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
Marty AE6IP
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History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 7, 2004
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Folks, please be careful in your responses. Regardless of what you post, Marty will find some reason to disagree with you.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC0KBH on October 7, 2004
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Well, I am not a professional inventor, but I have made a outboard motor out of a gas weed eater, and a hoveercraft out of my leaf blower.
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Troll Alert
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by KZ1X on October 7, 2004
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I hold three awarded US Patents and have fourteen others pending. All of these inventions have roots, in one way or another, in work I've done associated with my Amateur Radio experience.
That said, AE6IP has already publicly denigrated my accomplishments in this area, here on eHam. So, while I do have clear examples of ham-initiated inventions created in the past five years, I have no intention of posting further on this thread.
As an earlier post mentioned, be wary of troll bait.
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RE: Troll Alert
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by N6AYJ on October 7, 2004
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KZ1X: Steve, you are being gratuitously argumentative again. I find it difficult to know how to take you. On the one hand, you brag about your accomplishments, but on the other hand, you seem to be painfully insecure when criticized. This makes it rather difficult to know how to react to what you say. Just thought you might like to know.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by KB8UFF on October 7, 2004
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I had thought that I was the inventor of the phoneless cord, but upon patent search I found out differently.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 7, 2004
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Besides being a Radio Amateur, I invented putting a pillow on a chair to make it softer and more comfortable to sit on.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 7, 2004
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Besides being a Radio Amateur, I invented putting a pillow on a chair to make it softer and more comfortable to sit on.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by OLDFART13 on October 7, 2004
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TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT.
Anyone who has ever read anthing from AE6IP knows that he is nothing but a troll. Don't take the bait or fall into his trap. You can reply with a valid post but he will try to discredit you and just have an online arguement over some obscure statement that you made. He only distorts the facts.
His only purpose on this site to start an arguement.
ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE AE6IP'S BAIT?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KI4BNP on October 7, 2004
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I made a chocolate cake once that looked like an FT-817. Does that count?
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History of Amateur Invention
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by AE1X on October 7, 2004
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I am a co-inventory of a system called FIS (Flight Information Service). This is a navigation and safety aide for the General Aviation Service community.
Ken
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 7, 2004
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I invented the endless, boring repetition of extremely stupid, and false, distortions of quotes by famous politicians, designed to tickle the fancies of brain-dead repukeblican sheep. B-a-a-a-a-h!
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History of Amateur Invention
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by N3ZKP on October 7, 2004
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I invented a very large rock. Unfortunately, Marty keeps crawling out from under it.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W2DUG on October 7, 2004
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AE6IP, can you give us some examples--either real or fictional for illustrative purposes--of what you are seeking? I'm having a little trouble understanding.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by N3NL on October 7, 2004
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Hello,
There were a lot of such radio communication
inventions in the first half of the 20th century.
More recent inventions which amateurs had a lot to
do with include the microsatellites providing low
orbit communications services (both store and forward
and direct relay)and terrestrial packet radio.
I have three patents but they don't meet the
author's criteria. I published another idea which
may become such an invention, but which has not done
so yet.
73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on October 7, 2004
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AE6IP (aka "Marty") is a FART:
Funny
Amateur
Radio
Troll
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by WA1RNE on October 7, 2004
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Not so fast, Al.....
That occured under my watch while I was President, so go invent yourself a new voting machine and install it where it can do some good, like Florida.
Signed,
Bill Clinton
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AL2I on October 7, 2004
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Bill -
I was using the Internet when you were still abusing your position as governor of Arkansas. Therefore, the Internet significantly predates the time that you abused your position as President.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by LID2LID on October 7, 2004
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I invented the combover, after pulling out most of my hair while chasing DX on the national tune up frequency.
See: US Patent 4,022,227
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History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 7, 2004
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I fell out with sMarty some time ago on another ham radio forum. It was due to his unfounded accusation that the U.K. had committed some sort of atrocity causing the deaths of 6 million people. It was alleged ( by him ) to have been committed in the 1950's.
Had it been anything less emotive I might have been better able to forgive and forget.
Still, all this vitriol does make me feel a little sorry for him. I'm off to read this:
http://www.bible.com/answers/aforgive.html
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 7, 2004
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Ah! Yes, we could all use a refreshing dose of piety, bring us all back to the fundamental principles that our Great Republic Was Founded Upon.
I'm off to read:
http://www.bettybowers.com/2004ccvoterguide.html
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8VWM on October 7, 2004
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This message is:
Copyright © 2004 KC8VWM
All rights reserved.
US patent pending
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 7, 2004
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'ESE
If you are desparate for reading you may want to peruse this lot:
http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=4a7327e4e8d97af7e75efee021dadce6;act=ST;f=7;t=50991;st=50
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 7, 2004
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I don't think this Marty guy is really worth getting worked-up about, as he's apparently several cans shy of a six-pack.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 7, 2004
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'ESE
Agreed! He is V good at getting people angry though. My grandfather was a school headmaster and always said that everybody is good at something...
Sod all that reading, I'm now off to the pub!
Steve.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by N6AJR on October 7, 2004
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on a serious vein, I nominate Don Johnson, Mr. DK3 as one of the all time great inventor/ instigator of all hamdom. and a really nice guy too.
Now if I could just invent a mobile Fan Dipole... I guess that's what Don did ehhh???
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by N0TONE on October 7, 2004
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I was conducting experiments to test my theory that the EH antenna is a variation of a very short dipole. I noticed that the antenna was getting particularly hot, so I aimed a fan at it to cool it off, thus creating the FAN DIPOLE.
With the fan added, the efficiency improved, so I altered the design to reduce the size of the dipole, and increase the size of the fan.
A series of experiments raised the bar on the performance of the dipole's fan, until I was powering it with oxy-hydro fuel, and was, in fact, able to launch radio waves all the way into space, where my station could be heard, thus inventing the SPACE STATION.
Of course, everybody knows that the space station is big news these days and has long since left the ranks of purely amateur studies.
For my next trick, I shall build a functioning communications satellite from a box of paper clips stolen from work.
--Dogbert
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G3SEA on October 7, 2004
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I think Marty did us all a favour by eliciting all the
witticism's out there :)
The Chocolate FT817 ' took the cake ' :) :)
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THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
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by KB7LYM on October 7, 2004
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THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
It was in the spring of 1994 that I worked at the
Greenwoods Logging camp in Washington State
We found a tall Spruce that stood at least
15 stories high and I thought, why not make a
HF Antenna from this tree ? We had a topper climb
to the top of the giant spruce and he topped it.
Total feet from top to bottom was 117 feet.
I went up with a sledge hammer and a 6 feet
copper rod that was about 3 inch round.
I drove it into the center core of the Spruce.
When I came down we drilled to the center
of the Spruce what was difficult because we needed
a 3 " drill with a length of 20 feet. We had a drill welded
to a steel rod and finished the job in about 4 hours.
Now the liquid from the Spruce core was connecting
the top and bottom rods. We used RG-8 for coax
The roots of the Spruce was the ground and after
a little tuning we had contacts from everywhere on
80 meters. It was a success !!!! For VHF and
UHF we used smaller trees. Saved a lot of money.
Latest I heard that it was still going strong.
Even have a picture of this Antenna
e-mail dragonflies329@juno.com if you want a copy
KB7LYM
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Christian politics?
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by G7HEU on October 7, 2004
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Hey 'ESE et al,
I have now read some of the stuff on:
www.bettybowers.com/2004ccvoterguide.html
That narrowly coincided with me reading the following on QRZ.com:
'I'm not your "party line" Republican because some of my views differ from the party line. For example, I think if a person wants to have an abortion, and can live with that decision, she should be allowed. I'm also not into the whole Christian bible thumping thing.'
All,
1. I am not 'trolling'.
2. I have never visited the U.S.
3. I must ask - is Christianity really viewed by U.S. people as something tied to political allegiance?
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by N5ITW on October 7, 2004
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i need to personally thank k3ese for his invention that i think will benefit all mankind. it has changed my life. thanks, larry
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AA4PB on October 7, 2004
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Pactor was initially developed by hams and later turned into a commercial product for use outside of ham radio.
There are a number of others like Clover and various antennas that are now used by commercial and military interests. They may not meet your requirements because the company was in place before the development was completed.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K1CJS on October 7, 2004
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WARNING-----WARNING-----WARNING
Be careful of how you answer Marty--he'll nitpick you to death on semantics and obscure definitions, then he'll tell you you don't know what you're talking about--complete with references from the 1885 edition of Webster's dictionary.
This post is nothing but an attempt to find someone to argue with.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by K0ABE on October 7, 2004
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Most people don't know this but the modern computer desk has it's roots in Amateur Radio. That's right, look at photos of old ham radio stations and compare them to modern computer desks. So similar it's frightening.
73 Mike K0ABE
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Patents
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by KA4KOE on October 7, 2004
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This message is:
Copyright © 2004 KA4KOE
All rights reserved.
US patent pending
Registered Trademark
-And brought to you courtesy of the Wishy Washy Washing Machine Company of Walla Walla, Washington.
Lemme know if youse guys wanna mo' DEDs, which are also
Copyright © 2004 KA4KOE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 7, 2004
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Even though this started out as just another troll by AE6IP, it's turned out to be quite entertaining.....
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History of Amateur Invention
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by K0RFD on October 7, 2004
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Far be it from me to NOT answer a troll. It's one of my major vices.
However, that having been said, I'll be the first to admit this. I haven't invented a d**ned thing. There, I said it. I just get on the radio to have fun. Being an Extra Lite, I'm sure that condemns me to the deepest depths of the hobby. But except for building my own RTTY/PSK interfaces and my own antennas, I am one of those leeches who gets by simply twiddling knobs invented by Japanese engineers lots smarter than myself.
Man that was hard to admit, but very cathartic.
I feel better already. So good I'll go get on the radio.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by KG5JJ on October 7, 2004
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Heh!
Heh-heh!
Heh-heh-heh!
BWAAHAAHAA! MUHAHAHAHA!
Heh-heh-heh!
Heh-heh!
Heh!
<sigh> ;-}
73 KG5JJ (Mike)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8VWM on October 7, 2004
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What the heck is that all about Mike?
(scared my cat so bad she knocked over my laptop)
Charles KC8VWM
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History of Amateur Invention
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by KD7ZOX on October 7, 2004
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Using a lawnmower engine, expanding foam, scrap plywood, and a giant electric fan that was powered by an alternator on the engine I am adding, I am building a large, water capable hovercraft. While I'm not really inventing anything, I plan to also add an electrolyser to help improve "gas mileage" or runtime per tank. Should be fun when it's done.
Sean,
KD7ZOX
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KG5JJ on October 7, 2004
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Just a healthy outlet of chuckles... ;-}
73 KG5JJ (Mike)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KG5JJ on October 7, 2004
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Well...years ago, I purchased many "gas saving" items, which taken collectively, at 10% improvement in gas mileage, meant that every 247 miles, I would have to stop and siphon excess gasoline out of my tank into a 5-gallon container, to keep it from spilling out the overflow tank vent. I then used the excess gas I siphoned, to run my garden/lawn equipment, two motorcycles, and a very nice Honda generator.
I haven't purchased any gasoline since 1964...
73 KG5JJ (Mike)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KB7LYM on October 7, 2004
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Sounds good to me. However you might have problems with the Candaloniun pins that replaced the X56 old pins. The trouble with the pins are that they are thinner than the thickness by about 0.00000007 mm
It is hard to see if the pins are in vertical or horizontal postion. In fact to stand it on its edge one must lay it flat. Holes that have to be drilled must be done in reverse. After that its easy going
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THE PROOF OF THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
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by KB7LYM on October 8, 2004
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Yes ladies,gentlemen and ham operators our overseas contact M0HEU / G7HEU has now proof that there is such a thing as the mighty SPRUCE ANTENNA. The first picture of my invented Antenna and patent # AH-7693
has been send to the UK. Don't miss out on the opperturnity to receive this fine Color photo that will enhance your radio shack or bathroom. You will see the glorious Northwest Woods, the giant Spruce Antenna and yes the picture of me ( KB7LYM ) installing the bottom rod.
All this for free and just for the asking
For Republicans ( soon to be gone ) and democrats alike.
I left Ralph Nader out because he will be resting in the HOME and having his tested Prunejuice
SEND ------> dragonflies329@juno.com <------
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RE: THE PROOF OF THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
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by G7HEU on October 8, 2004
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Yes, I can confirm that I have indeed received a picture. I'd encourage everybody to e-mail Frank and ask for a copy.
What an eye opener! It really is remarkable and on two levels:
1. The size of that tree - It's enormous. I don't think we have anything of that size over here.
2. Frank / KB7LYM's amazing apparel.
All in all it's treemendous.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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Disaster Personal Relief Patent
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2004
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Used in Disaster Relief, Hurricane and Earthquake preparedness, and other situations.
http://www.bumperdumper.com/bumper2.htm
U.S. Patent # 6125480
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RE: Disaster Personal Relief Patent
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2004
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KC8VWM during field day event demonstrating emergency relief equipment. U.S. Patent # 6125480
http://www.bumperdumper.com/art/bdedned1.jpg
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RE: Disaster Personal Relief Patent
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by KE6PKJ on October 8, 2004
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I invented the Pocket Fisherman, Spray on Hair, the Drain Buster, a device that turns your household wiring into one Giant TV Antenna, the Dial-O-Matic food chopper (it also slices and dices), and a whole host of other gizmos, gadgets and products.
.....And if you buy now I will also include a set of steak knives absolutely free! (offer void where prohibited).
Ron Popiel
WWW.ronco.com
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by WT0A on October 8, 2004
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I once made a ts940 look like a pan of brownies.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W4XKE on October 8, 2004
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Had it been anything less emotive I might have been better able to forgive and forget. Still, all this vitriol does make me feel a little sorry for him. I'm off to read this:
http://www.bible.com/answers/aforgive.html
I looked at the bible.com statements and have to say this is hogwash. You say that I am to forgive my fellow man whether he is sorry for his deeds against me or not, whether he asks my forgiveness or not... BUT God himself is not willing to do this you say! I have to both "be sorry (repent) and also to ask him for forgiveness" or I will not be forgiven.
Do you realize that you have asked me to perform at a standard higher than God, Himself?
The fact is that by asking God for forgiveness is in itself an act of disbelief. Paul said that all forgiveness was accomplished at the cross and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Would you ask him to shed blood again because you believe his sacrifice wasn't sufficient? This is where 99 1/2 % of all 'churches' reveal themselves to be counterfeits of the true faith. (You must do this or do that in order to merit favor from God) There is nothing you can do to merit any kind of favor from God, other than to believe Him, that the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ was acceptable payment for all sin, and that He rose again for your justification. If you believe that, you are as justified and righteous as you will ever be and no act of performance is going to improve upon it. We serve the Lord in gratitude; not to achieve something that Jesus was not able to accomplish.
This is a bit off the topic of ham radio, but it has a much more lasting effect than RF and deserves serious consideration while we still have the time to consider it. Respectfully, Johnny W4XKE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K3ESE on October 8, 2004
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Here's more background info:
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/beliefs.html
"We Believe in the WHOLE Bible (1611 KJV). We don't throw out the parts that make us feel uncomfortable, like the book of Leviticus. We bid you greetings, friend. We do not read, eat, consume, digest, or 'try on' any product that is not made and manufactured by born-again, Bible believing, Fundamentalist Baptist Christians, and we would have you know that we condemn anyone that does, and pray as King David did, 'against them' for a quick end and a speedy journey to a very hot place, where they can spend out all eternity honoring our Lord and Maker in a literal lake of fire, Amen. Please find our site a blessing.!"
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RE: Disaster Personal Relief Patent
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by KB7LYM on October 8, 2004
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The DRAIN BUSTER is obsolete. I have a cheap PLUGGED DRAIN & SEWER OULET that I imported from India.
A HUNGRY RAT ON A STRING and let him go to work !!
Here is where I got my RAT
www.pakindiaratto.com
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W4XKE on October 8, 2004
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If you believe in the WHOLE bible, then you should sell all you have and distribute it among the poor. You should take up serpents and drink any poisous thing and not suffer any consequences. If you are taking the instructions that God gave to Israel and applying them to yourself, you need to heed God's statements to Noah and start building an ark. Only Lucifer would lead people to blindly take scripture out of context and make a lie our of truth. I pity your decision to make a mockery of the bible and then standing proudly as though you are favoring the faith. W4XKE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 8, 2004
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R.I.P Ken Bigley.
Hmmm
As the person who introduced the Bible in to this thread I have this to say:
If you guys ever met me you would rapidly realise that I couldn't be less of a 'Bible basher' :-)
Having said that a very wise old man ( now dead ) told me when I was young and reckless;
' You might not believe or agree with all of what the Bible says. Still, if a man lives his life vaguely within it's constraints he'll probably be a good bloke and have a sound conscence'
I paid no attention at all at the time. The older I get the more I can see what he was 'driving' at.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU
P.S. It's Friday night - off to the pub!
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 8, 2004
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'You say that I am to forgive my fellow man whether he is sorry for his deeds against me or not'
Just try it - might make you feel good!
N.B. If somebody punches me on the nose this evening I shall punch him back and forgive him afterwards :-)
Gotta dash.
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Bible backs up the fact that horses can fly
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by K3ESE on October 8, 2004
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Freehold, Iowa-- The Bible holds a vital clue as to the time of Christ's return. It is right around the same time when horses will fly. "The time described in Revelation, Chapter 6 might be this afternoon, so most True Christians� are worried about horses having enough time to learn how to fly. You know, they are sort of heavy. But folks familiar with the Bible will know that horses have flown before," said Pastor Deacon Fred. "In 2 Kings 2:11, God teaches us about His favorite mode of transportation. That is, to light a few horses on fire, attach them to a chariot, place some of his favorite people inside and ride them straight to Glory! Hallelujah!" Christian scholars and Creation Scientists also point to sketchy historical documents from ancient Greece where flying horses seemed to be in great abundance. "Them Greeks had flying horses all over the place," notes one respected Christian scholar. "As Christians, we know that all of their stories about gods who impregnated human virgins are outrageous, improbable lies, but the other fun stuff in their stories were true. After all, if a snake can talk to a woman, why couldn't he also become part of her hairdo? Besides, the Bible backs up the fact that horses can fly."
A report released to church members in 1972 by the Landover Baptist Center for Creation Research informed parishioners that their tithe money had been used to conduct a 14-year study called, "Operation Horse Fly." Landover Baptist's Dr. Jonathan Edwards concluded that after 14 years, 2,984 horses, 400 gallons of kerosene, and 18 books of matches, all that was left was enough glue to fix his loafers and dog food to feed Mexico for 10 years. "The highest we got a horse to fly was about four feet," said Edwards, "and that was more like a jump, not really a flight. Even the ones we dropped off the side of the barn never got the hang of it."
Church members were excited to learn that earlier this year, a closer study of the book of Revelation indicated that Creation Scientists had been drawing conclusions about flying horses from the wrong chapter. "We were studying chapter 6, when we should have been looking at Chapter 9," said Dr. Edwards. Revelation 9:17,19 states, ". . .the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. . .their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt." Dr. Edwards reported his findings at the Sunday morning church service. "We are convinced that a horse's power to fly comes from its mouth and tail," he said. "The only obstacle before us now is to remove the head of a horse and replace it with a lion's head. We've also got to figure out some way to cut off the horse's tail and attach a boa constrictor to it's hiney. We've got to accomplish all of this without actually killing the horse - or getting bit by the lion. A horse with a lion-head and a snake-butt may seem far-fetched to nonbelievers, but the Lord said it shall be, so who are we to doubt the Lord's inventive use of His animal parts? After all, a squirrel is just a rat with a pretty fur baby fox tail. And the sooner we can get these hideous hybrids running around town, the sooner we will trigger the Rapture. That way, we, as True Christians, won't have to be the ones who have to deal with Lion-Snake-Horses attacking our children when they try to cross the street - because we will be in Glory laughing at their antics at a safe distance."
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0802/horsefly.html
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 8, 2004
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Final, final.
Forgot to compliment Charles on the Bumper Dumper idea. Perhaps sMarty / AE6IP would like to buy a franchise and market it for you...
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History of Amateur Invention
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by G0GQK on October 8, 2004
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Sorry to have to point it out to you fellas, but you are acting like those who inhabit QRZ.com
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2004
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"Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU
P.S. It's Friday night - off to the pub!"
That's a jolly smashing idea matie!
Let me be the first to buy you all a free round on the house!
(or on the basement, flat , loft , bumper dumper, lift, bloomers or whatever you call them things over there..
;)
73 & Have a blast.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: DUDES! (Was: RE: Patents)
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by NJ1K on October 8, 2004
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Well I have to hand it to you guys here on eham.... You sure do know how to shut sMarty up but good... hehehe
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RE: DUDES! (Was: RE: Patents)
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by AD6WL on October 8, 2004
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NJ1K, don't you believe it. As we speak he is probably composing an onslaught of replies. Mark my word.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 8, 2004
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> AE6IP, can you give us some examples--either real or
> fictional for illustrative purposes--of what you are
> seeking? I'm having a little trouble understanding.
Sure. Later in the thread, someone mentions Pactor. Pactor, it turns out, was invented by by Ulrich Strate, DF4KV, and Hans-Peter Helfert, DL6MAA in Germany in 1991.
Pactor appears to meet the requirements. It was invented originally by hams, for ham use. It was later adapted for use in other radio services.
Pactor was later commercialized by its inventors, who founded SCS. While it is still mainly used by amateurs, there are other users, most notably the marine ssb service.
PSK31 may someday qualify. It was invented originally by hams, for ham use. However, it is not, as far as I know, used outside of the amateur service..
RTTY does not qualify. It was invented commercially for commercial use and was latere adopted by hams.
To qualify, an invention doesn't have to be currently in use. It simply has to
1) Have been invented by someone who was a licensed ham at the time of invention.
2) Been developed for use in ham radio.
3) Deployed first in ham radio.
4) Later adopted for use in other radio services.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 8, 2004
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> There were a lot of such radio communication
> inventions in the first half of the 20th century.
Can you point me at references?
> More recent inventions which amateurs had a lot to
> do with include the microsatellites providing low
> orbit communications services (both store and
> forward and direct relay)and terrestrial packet
> radio.
I'll look into the microsatellite stuff. I've looked into terrestrial packet and haven't found anything that wasn't predated by the Aloha net, but I'd appreciate references, anyway.
> 73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL
Thanks,
Marty
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 8, 2004
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I fell out with sMarty / AE6IP some time ago on another ham radio forum. It was due to his unfounded accusation that the U.K. had committed some sort of atrocity causing the deaths of 6 million people. It was alleged ( by him ) to have been committed in the 1950's.
Had it been anything less emotive I might have been better able to forgive and forget.
Up yours Marty!
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by N0FP on October 8, 2004
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What a goofy question! From the looks of Marty's reputation (see above), everybody seems to be unwilling to take him serious. But then, the question is quite goofy.
"I have found no amateurs acting only as amateurs inventing technology later adopted outside of the amateur service. Where amateurs have been involved in invention, they seem to have done so as part of their job function as professionals, rather than as part of their hobby."
How does an amateur act only as an amateur? From the thrust of Marty's inquiry, he is up to something. My guess is he's trying to prove some point. And what is the paper going to say? Who is the intended audience of said paper?
I can think of several innovative approaches to old problems that were solved by amateurs. I can also imagine many of the hams who are RF professionals and in a good position to use their inventions outside of Ham Radio, demonstrated principles through the use of a Ham license. But apparently this group of people don't count in Marty's mind.
So what evidence is Marty seeking? Patent numbers? I can think of a few.
Ford-N0FP
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 8, 2004
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I invented my own line of air fresheners
1)Doggy poop
2)Two day old vomit from a Frat KEG party
3)A dead rat behind a steam pipe
4)The aroma of a gas station mens room
5)A 3 day old dead body
6)The equivalant of 10 annoyed skunks
7)3 day old sun rippened salt water fish.
8)ODE DE ILOSTOMY
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 8, 2004
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> How does an amateur act only as an amateur?
In this context, it means someone whose principle interest, while inventing, is use of the invention in the amateur radio service, and who is not being paid to invent.
> From the thrust of Marty's inquiry, he is up to
> something.
Yes, he is. It's called "learning."
> And what is the paper going to say?
That will depend on what I learn.
> Who is the intended audience of said paper?
Science historians.
> I can think of several innovative approaches to old
> problems that were solved by amateurs.
References, please?
> I can also imagine many of the hams who are RF
> professionals and in a good position to use their
> inventions outside of Ham Radio, demonstrated
> principles through the use of a Ham license. But
> apparently this group of people don't count in
> Marty's mind.
For the purpose of the research, no. When someone is working as an RF pro, it is too hard, from this remove, to know if they invented something for amateur use, and then turned it to pro use, or the other way around.
> So what evidence is Marty seeking?
Independent documentation that the individual was a licensed ham, that their principle interest was the amateur radio service, and that the invention was first used in the ARS, and only later applied in other communication services.
> Patent numbers? I can think of a few.
A patent number would be a starting point. One would still have to work backwards through the history of the device to see if it qualified.
But, for the most part, I'm not interested in patented inventions, because they usually fall under the category of amateur-in-professional-capacity, and I've already got very good documentation on such contributions. However, I'd be happy to know about exceptions.
What I haven't yet found, and was asking for help to find, is documentation of amateur-in-amateur-capacity inventions.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 8, 2004
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I invented my own line of air fresheners
1)Doggy poop
2)Two day old vomit from a Frat KEG party
3)A dead rat behind a steam pipe
4)The aroma of a gas station mens room
5)A 3 day old dead body
6)The equivalant of 10 annoyed skunks
7)3 day old sun rippened salt water fish.
8)ODE DE ILOSTOMY
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8LWV on October 8, 2004
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Still, let's get back to the chocolate posts. And post pics...
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2004
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"VOTE FOR KERRY!!!!! He can save this country from it's pitifull state. He is also against BPL and will talk about it tonite."
Was this answered (or wasn't answered) somewhere in between the flip flop positioning he had on the stem cell research question yes and no abortion issue?
Perhaps, BPL was addressed when he answered so clearly about the so called "plan" for America he kept talking about, but had no actual plans to debate about?
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RE: THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
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by KL7IPV on October 8, 2004
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<QUOTE>
For VHF and
UHF we used smaller trees. Saved a lot of money.
Latest I heard that it was still going strong.
Even have a picture of this Antenna
e-mail dragonflies329@juno.com if you want a copy
KB7LYM
<UNQUOTE>
Yup, I have heard of these antennas and while in Alaska I tried it out. I put a small Spruce in my truck (the Alaskan trees have shorter limbs due to the constant cold)and ran coax from my Gonset Comm II. It worked great and was in use until Christmas. We found the Christmas tree lights interfered with communications. So I got to drive around with a pretty tree in my truck for a short time. But the rest of the year the Spruce VHF AM mobile station worked extremely well. The only problem I had was keeping the water from freezing in the winter and the roots from growing into the brakes in the summer. Otherwise, it was a wonderful conversation piece. Thanks, KB7LYN.
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RE: THE SPRUCE ANTENNA
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by K5CEY on October 8, 2004
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I once tried to get a patent on some self-chocking tires for private aircraft.
They worked great for securing the aircraft,but what a hell of a note on taxi and take off. What a relief to finally get in the air.
John
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Gastrobot
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2004
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I have invented the following:
I have designed a 12-wheeled robot, dubbed Chew Chew the "gastrobot," that runs on electrical energy converted from bacteria in meat.
A 7-pound, 2-foot long mine-sweeping robotic lobster developed for the U.S. Navy
I created an HT antenna that doubles as a toothbrush.
Solar-powered waste bins at drive thrus that reward the user with a "thank you" in three different languages.
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RE: Gastrobot
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by NJ1K on October 9, 2004
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Lots of nice inventions out there.... But, who invented sMarty?? I bet no one will own up to that one....
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Quiety sMarty ?
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by G7HEU on October 9, 2004
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To quote myself:
'I fell out with sMarty / AE6IP some time ago on another ham radio forum. It was due to his unfounded accusation that the U.K. had committed some sort of genocide causing the deaths of 6 million people. It was alleged ( by him ) to have been committed in the 1950's.
Had it been anything less emotive I might have been better able to forgive and forget'.
Actually, he might have claimed it was in the 1940's.
Hey sMarty - before you started this thread you should have finished the one on QRZ.com where you invented some allegations. Oh no, you can't - because QRZ.com banned you.
So wise guy, here's your chance. Just answer my question please - what were the atrocities you had in mind when you accused my country?
www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=4a7327e4e8d97af7e75efee021dadce6;act=ST;f=7;t=50991;st=50
I'm waiting...
Love to Jean xxx
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
p.s. I forgive you, God bless you.
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RE: Quiety sMarty ?
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by G7HEU on October 9, 2004
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Quote AE6IP
'I know what England did in '46 in one of its colonies that led directly, and intentionally, to millions of deaths'.
Please do tell us all Marty.
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AE6IP AE6IP DE M0HEU KN
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by G7HEU on October 9, 2004
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Where's he gone? He seems to have become very quiet?
Marty, please answer.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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Pactor is it?
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by AE6IP on October 9, 2004
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Thanks for the reference to Pactor, which I'd missed in my own searching; but I'm pretty surprised that that's all anyone came up with.
Anyone? Any examples, besides Pactor, of amatuer invention later migrating to other radio services?
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RE: Quiety sMarty ?
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by KC8VWM on October 9, 2004
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"It was due to his unfounded accusation that the U.K. had committed some sort of genocide causing the deaths of 6 million people. It was alleged ( by him ) to have been committed in the 1950's."
Marty, you just can't go around making accusations about a man and his country.
These accusations of Genocide conducted by the British Monarchy in the 50's is nothing but a direct and unforgivable insult toward the queen.
You lack cultural understanding.
British subjects just consider this accusation unacceptable as do I.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Unforgiven
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by AE6IP on October 9, 2004
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Charles,
Steve can't even accurately recall what claims I've made. My 11 year old granddaughter, given the same information I gave Steve, was able to find documentation of my claims in 10 minutes, on the net, and Steve is welcome to repeat her effort. He gets no more help from me.
But thanks for the irony of telling an Irish-American that he "lacks cultural understanding" over an issue in which a subject of the United Kingdom doesn't even know his own country's history.
If you want to help Steve learn the history of his own country, feel free to take the information I provided him, do a small amount of research, and inform him. I find his behavior sufficiently pathological to be unwilling to interact with him any further.
The United Kingdom has twice starved large populations to death in clearly documented incidents. The first, and most well known, is mistakenly labeled "the potato famine". The second, occuring after WW-II, was documented in research which won a Nobel prize.
http://nobelprize.org/ is a good place to start your research, if you wish.
Now can we return this thread to topic?
Thanks,
Marty
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History of Amateur Invention
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by W3DCG on October 10, 2004
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Anyone having had more than 5 breakfasts with me, thinks I invented the combination of Spam, eggs, and steamed white rice. Not mixed, but served together on the same plate.
They also think I invented the use of Mayonaise on white rice.
Somewhere, this has- contributed to Spam radio.
Common knowledge in KH6 land.
Instead of Salt, try Kikkoman Green Label, on your eggs.
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RE: Unforgiven
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by G7HEU on October 10, 2004
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Good grief - trying to get a straight answer out of some people if like trying to catch a fly with chop-sticks!
So, ignoring any diversionary comments about potato famines, google searches and granddaughters here is the original statement from Marty:
'Immediately after WW-II two major US partners in the war, England, and the USSR, committed crimes against humanity of the same order of magnitude as the holocost. But, you know, the winners write the history books'.
That's the claim I take issue with and the one that Marty refuses to defend.
Still, if a man can't even spell Holocaust I suppose I shouldn't expect him to know much about it. If he doesn't know much about it I can then appreciate why he might compare other events to it - even claiming that they were 'of the same magnitude'.
Ho-hum,
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: Unforgiven
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by RADIO123US on October 10, 2004
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Steve,
No matter how many FACTS you present to sMarty, he will NEVER admit fault. sMarty has NO desire to get at the truth. He only wants to argue. He has been BANNED from QRZ.COM for doing this, and it's sad that he is still allowed to do it here.
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Kerry in '04!
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by K3ESE on October 10, 2004
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VWM... I know that your chimp has tatooed on your brain that Mr. Kerry vacillates on the issues, but if you were able to somehow magically regain the ability to think on your own, it would be abundantly clear that you have been duped, played for the fool...but, apparently, not underestimated.
Mr. Kerry's personal beliefs are that he is opposed to abortion, but recognizes that public policy should not be based on an individuals's religious beliefs, but on supporting and upholding the laws of this country, and also on supporting the rights of individuals to control their own destinies. Therefore, he does now and always has supported the right for women to choose a safe, legal, affordable abortion. He also supports the use of fetal tissue for stem cell research.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 10, 2004
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RADI0123 AND MANY OTHERS. I too have been in and out of a FOUST FIGHTS.
1)Maybe Marty is trying to create a Fight club section on EHAM.
Maybe(boy will I regret this)Marty really needs our below 145 IQ's
I know MIKE () thinks I am a conspiracy nut. Fact is..I am!
Perhaps Marty is a TRILATERAL COMMITTEE member.
Marty is no dummy. Rude to his fellow hams.....YES!
We are being set up. Perhaps Marty needs to write a paper for some cheap psych pub.
Maybe Marty is just some big Busby Berkly Movie we cannot wake up from.
THE BIQ QUESTION IS THIS........IS MARTY GOOD FOR THOSE THAT ADVERTIZE ON EHAM?
WELL(in an Andy Roony voice) there is a giant Ham sandwich chasing me, and I forgot to bring a toothpick
I am glad Marty is looking to write another book.
If he sends me a free autographed of what is in the store now for free, I might read it.
If you were paid BIG BUX by QRZ mag. to annoy EHAM readers, you wasted your time. You were a pESt at first.
However everybody knows you seemed born to bicker.
Do you have that on on your bumper sticker.
Is it a simple matter when writing, you consume much liqour!
You have the rep of being the number one TROLL.
Should we make you a trophy, you can proudy
place next to your photo of LES PAUL?
OR PERHAPS WE SHOULD SIMPLY IGNORE YOU AND SAY "F"--- YOU........ YOU SOW BELLIED TROLL!
IF YOU HAVE CHANGED YOUR MISCREANT WAYS
PLEASE IGNORE EVERYTHIN, I JUST SAYS!!!!
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History of Amateur Invention
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by W6EZ on October 10, 2004
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I invented putting a bag of salted peanuts in cold bottle of grape cola. It really caught on.
My hat is off to the inventor on the pillow in the chair thing. I use it almost every day.
I too have noticed the way modern desks look a lot like the olden desks of hams from long ago. It's a shame hams never got credit for their influence on the design of desks.
Now if one of you real bright hams could figure out a way to make an electric computer check the spelling of what one has just typed. Now that would be something!
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by NN2G on October 10, 2004
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I invented the Henway
Whats a henway?
About 6 pounds
Get it ????
Haw Haw Haw
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W6TH on October 10, 2004
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AE6IP
sMARTY, Irish American what say old chap.
Seems you not only have hatred for the British and the Italians, but have hatred towards the whole human race.
You do emphasis mostly the British
sMARTY, you only know what you decipher off of the internet, so why do you propose googles, the program as your principal education.
I hope old chap you are not a statist type, the one who deals in statistics.
Suggestion: Don't try to be what you are not.
Have a good day.
.:
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 10, 2004
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I realize that my 'fan club' is having too much fun with their stereotypes to pay any attention to reality, but since so few seem interested in the subject of the thread, I thought I'd go ahead and inject some:
Radio123US is my favorite. The irony of this poster accusing others of being a troll is too delicious to not comment on.
Note how (s)he writes: "No matter how many FACTS you present to sMarty, he will NEVER admit fault."; ignoring that as recently as a few days ago, I admited to having made a mistaken assertion (claiming that advanced operators could upgrade to extra by filling out paper work.)
Radio123US, as usual, has it backwards. I'm one of the rare people on eHam who *does* admit it when he's been shown wrong. I take some convincing, sometimes, but when convinced, I own up.
Then, of course, there's the webboard canard of labeling anyone who holds strong opinions and is willing to express them a "troll". What a dreary place the net would become if the only posts were those people made agreeing with each other.
I, of course, am "rude" because I hold strong opinions, express them directly and am willing to argue with what I disagree about in other people's statements. But those who prefer name calling, of course, are not. Nothing rude about labeling someone a troll, calling them an arse, suggesting they are "several cans shy of a six-pack", is there boys?
It's fun to find out who the trolls really are, whose ego is easily damaged and who holds grudges, but it's not on topic guys, sorry.
I'd like to thank AA4PB for pointing out Pactor, a perfect example, and one I missed. And, one last time, I'll ask if anyone has any other examples.
(By the way, yes, I am 'argumentive' online. If you say something I agree with, it's a waste of bandwidth to <aol>Me Too</aol> so I tend to only post about what I disagree with. If you don't want people to disagree with you, don't post opinions online.)
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Fan Club
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by KA4KOE on October 10, 2004
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The only fan club I'm interested in is the one that is dedicated to the famous
FAN DIPOLE.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 10, 2004
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OK Marty if your for real this time.
Major Armstrong-----HAM AND INVENTOR OF SUPERHET FM, VHF COMMERCIAL, AND MILITARY FM.
DOUG DEMAW W1AW AND HIRAM PERCY MARX. iNVENTED A TYPE OF MACHINE GUN.
True, one can say the silicon Valley dudes were not hams.
The dudes that started using 4khz wide SSB, all had broadcast experience. All the dudes got tickets for BW.
One dude did get Hi-Fi SSB razor clean. He had an ultra roll off filter for 2,9khz. He did not get a ticket. Cuase you can use up to 3KHZfer SSB.
Were these dudes pioneers or pests!? If they did not use 20M, they would have been broadcasting vestigial SSB til doomsday. If you had an RX that coud handle it, it was SSB you hardly tuned in. The 4.2khz wide sideband sounded just like BDCST FM.
Invention...well innovation. How bout ART COLLINS and R.L. DRAKE. The Collins mechanical filter is an option that the Yeasu FT-857 has.
Maybe it is not so much invention,,,,,but yankee innovention.
My ham radio Moxie has helped me out on engineering gigs.
I am sure many on this sight can say the same.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 10, 2004
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THE W2AU BALUN! THEY SOLD LIKE HOT CAKES!
Many hams(and roast beefs SWLers) made a dipole or invented V with these study water proof baluns.
A few electronic keyers were named afer their designer.
My first TX, the tuna tin 2,was invented by W1AW Doug Demaw-sk.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8MWG on October 10, 2004
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Slight correction there. Sir Hiram Maxim, father of 1AW, Hiram Percy Maxim, invented the first true machine-gun (one that was not manually operated, like the Gatling or Nordenfelt guns were). Hiram Percy Maxim was not only the founder of the ARRL (as I am sure you all know), but also invented the silencer for firearms (and intended it to be used as a device to conduct quiet backyard target practice and eliminate garden pests without disturbing the neighbors - unless the pest happened to be the neighbor's dog...or kid for that matter), and was also a pioneer in automobile invention (don't ask me what, I just read that somewhere).
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 11, 2004
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AE6IP said " I'm one of the rare people on eHam who *does* admit it when he's been shown wrong. I take some convincing, sometimes, but when convinced, I own up."
...and tell us again why you were banned from QRZ.COM ???
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Fan monopoles
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by KA4KOE on October 11, 2004
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Wouldn't that be an inherently unbalanced system? Wouldn't the rotation of the fan dipole warp the feedline as it spun about? Would the balanced feedline be unbalanced? Would the E-H components of the launched EM wave reverse? Would Planck's Constant be unconstant?
Somebody help me please!!
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W6TH on October 11, 2004
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Hiram Percy Maxim also invented the 30/06 cartridge with brass metal casing as used today. He also was the inventer of the light machine gun and later developed the heavy machine gun being water cooled. Both using the 30 cal cartridge that is in use today.
I imagine the center fire was used as well as the 30/30 center fire.
The 30/30 was 30 caliber and 30 grains of powder. The 30/06 was 30 caliber and the year invented of 1906.
Maxim was also heavy into photography, he mayu also have some connections there as well.
.:
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by W9RPE on October 11, 2004
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None of you invented it, but you certainly are masters of the art of BS.
Seems to be the essence of Ham Radio these days. Second only to trolling of course.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by WB2WIK on October 11, 2004
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I thought that John F. Kerry, ex-W1SBC (Whiskey 1 Swift Boat Captain), had actually pioneered the flip-flop (circuit) originally for amateur use and then of course adopted by the entire digital electronics industry...
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QRL?
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by G7HEU on October 11, 2004
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AE6IP
Those that have not come across your postings before might read this thread and be forgiven for assuming you to be a reasonable guy.
They might imagine that I am labouring a point.
Anyway:
1st quote of AE6IP;
'I'm one of the rare people on eHam who *does* admit it when he's been shown wrong'.
2nd Quote of AE6IP;
'Immediately after WW-II two major US partners in the war, England, and the USSR, committed crimes against humanity of the same order of magnitude as the holocost. But, you know, the winners write the history books'.
I believe that's succinct.
OVER TO YOU...
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: British Atrocities.
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by AL2I on October 12, 2004
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OK, I am of Irish extraction, and the British commited a litany of human right violations against the Irish for many centuries. However, I am now concerned with modern British atrocities.
They still drive on the wrong side of the road. They cooperate far too readily with the French. They have that stupid uppity accent. We have to have clocks to displays both GMT and local time, but they just need one clock. This list could go on and on, but I am sure you see my point.
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RE: British Atrocities.
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by KC8VWM on October 12, 2004
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>Hiram Percy Maxim also invented the 30/06 cartridge with brass metal casing as used today.<
The reason behind this is becoming so clear now...
>Hiram Percy Maxim was not only the founder of the ARRL...<
He was also the President..?
..Speaking of Presidents.
>VWM... I know that your chimp has tatooed on your brain that Mr. Kerry vacillates on the issues, but if you were able to somehow magically regain the ability to think on your own, it would be abundantly clear that you have been duped, played for the fool...but, apparently, not underestimated.<
What can I say to that exactly. :)
Except for the fact that I just can't seem to get that "catching a fly with a set of chopsticks" comment Steve made earlier out of my mind at the moment.
KA4KOE says:
>>Wouldn't the rotation of the fan dipole warp the feedline as it spun about? Would the balanced feedline be unbalanced? Would the E-H components of the launched EM wave reverse? Would Planck's Constant be unconstant? <<
I am starting to feel like that Robot Probe "Nomad" on the original Star Trek series that went wild and overloaded. "Mu-s-t A-n-a-ly-se."
>THE W2AU BALUN! THEY SOLD LIKE HOT CAKES!<
I had one strung in a tree for a while. Hey, did you ever try one of these with maple syrup?
>No matter how many FACTS you present to sMarty, he will NEVER admit fault.<
So, you do admit that you are 100% right, most of the time..?
Cheerio..
Charles - KC8VWM
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 13, 2004
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Some dude at campus, wants to get his "DEMEROL KNISH""
PATENTED!
The WA2JJH swiss cheese customiser.
If you are not happy with the number of holes in your swiss cheese, my space age invention uses a 10watt laser diode to cut extra holes in your cheese!!!!
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History of Amateur Invention
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by W6PMR3 on October 13, 2004
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I used Super glue and double stick tape to put two Icom 756 pro's, (any flavor) together, tied the mic inputs in parallel, and connected the RF outputs into a common "T" fitting and out to the antenna,....
I now have a two hundred watt, four receiver, double DSP radio with 100% more knobs than needed,.....
I have invented the cheap IC 7800 ! Paul.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 13, 2004
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We
did not fall for any bait at all.
However he was very rude to RADIO123US, and a few others.
He asked a question that was very wide in scope.
One could confused.
We all have had our run ins with Marty.
Yes, there is a good chance he will reverse himself.
He could write a long response insulting all those that gave him our time.
I chose to give Marty some real answers, and some GAG
answers.
Marty IS published for real. He very well could be writing another. Marty I will still accept a free copy of your book. I will not pay for the book.
Why should I.
Where I have to give Marty credit, He made trowling almost legit.
So perhaps that is Martys amatuer invention. Nothing to be proud of indeed
Many of us,just ignore him when he starts to mock his fellow Ham.
Perhaps Marty knows that many see right through his vield revisionist history and antisemetic agenda.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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Good evening all,
Just checked in to see if ' you know who ' had admitted that he was wrong - or even tried to proove that he wasn't by answering a direct question.
Nope :-)
Steve.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 13, 2004
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> Marty IS published for real.
Yes, but no books, only papers.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 13, 2004
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Steve,
I answered your direct question. Not my fault you're not willing to follow the answer to the information you lack.
Given what I've posted in this thread, you now have enough information to find the Nobel prize winner who documented the United Kingdom starving millions in the late 40s and read the details for yourself.
After you've read the work, and if you're capable of behaving in a civilized fashion, we can discuss how those events mimiced Britain's behavior in staging the Irish "famine".
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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THE DOCTOR IS IN:
RE: History of Amateur Invention Reply
by AE6IP on October 13, 2004 Mail this to a friend!
"I answered your direct question. Not my fault you're not willing to follow the answer to the information you lack".
No you didn't. Your answer has never been forthcoming. I can think of two reasons:
1. You are certain you are right ( and therefore are 'getting off' on dragging out the conclusion ).
2.You realise you are incorrect about the dates so are attempting to 'blur' your responses.
"After you've read the work, and if you're capable of behaving in a civilized fashion, we can discuss how those events mimiced Britain's behavior in staging the Irish "famine"".
What are you on now? If you are getting aroused at the idea of a petty trail of 'clues' in order to get me to claim that Britain's treatment of Ireland was unjust you will be dissapointed. I can't imagine we will ever agree on very much but Britain's past abuses of the Irish is apparently one thing.
Sorry to deflate your balloon ( and I dread to think what else ).
Steve
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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Should of course read:
'Britain's treatment of Ireland was NOT unjust'.
I think the meaning is plain from the context but don't want to get anything twitching at your end :-)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 13, 2004
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AE6IP said "I'm also not going to give you a more detailed answer. Period. You have enough information to evaluate my claim. Now go do your homework, or drop it."
Translation of AE6IP's statement - " I can not back up anything I have claimed with factual information, so I will make you try and find facts that don't exist"
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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I REALLY wasn't going to post much more on this but:
Is there a 'delete post' on Eham now?
Or is my confuser malfunctioning?
Where's it gone?
Steve.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 13, 2004
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Steve,
Sometimes the webmasters delete posts that they find are offensive to others. Maybe the bad word Marty used got it deleted....that's my only guess...
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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RADIO...
Forgive me but I'm usually a bit wary of posters without a published call. I also have a poor memory so can't remember if you are the guy who asked the Elmers forum how to make his Galaxy 2400 run 2MW on 27Mhz!
Regardless, we seem to agree on a thing or two.
Best wishes and good DX,
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 13, 2004
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G7HEU said "I also have a poor memory so can't remember if you are the guy who asked the Elmers forum how to make his Galaxy 2400 run 2MW on 27Mhz!"
No, I operate ONLY on the ham bands, I have no need to do anything illegal.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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Radio...
O.K. sorry, no offense intended - it was meant as a joke, It's late here though...
Steve.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 13, 2004
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I didn't archive the post, and I guess the admins didn't like one of the words I used. So I'll paraphrase:
Steve,
I've given you enough information to verify the claim. If you're not willing to follow the trail "Nobel, Sen", then you're just never going to know.
I'm not the one who is prolonging this; you are. I was finished months ago, but you keep bringing it up.
I don't care whether you think I'm lying or not. I don't care what you think.
I only responded to you in this thread because you were so persistent in trying to drag the thread off topic. I'm not going to give you any more information on the events. period.
There's nothing in your behavior that inclines me towards filling the gaps in your knowledge of the United Kingdom's history.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 13, 2004
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> Translation of AE6IP's statement - " I can not back
> up anything I have claimed with factual information,
> so I will make you try and find facts that don't
> exist"
Once again, you are wrong. I have already backed the claim up with factual information: the events I refer to were documented by someone who won a Nobel prize, in part, for having done so. That's a statement of fact, and you can verify its accuracy.
In other threads, I have mentioned enough details about the events that you will be able to recognize them when you read the documentation: They happened after WW-II in a country that was about to become a former British colony and involved starving people in a fashion similar to the "potato famine" of an earlier century.
That's sufficient to allow anyone who cares to track down the documents I mentioned, read them, and judge the events for themselves.
What I haven't done, and won't do, is provide a more detailed description of the events, or the exact reference to the documentation. Especially not to people who have hijacked a thread in the way in which this one was hijacked.
You wouldn't, by any chance, know of any amateur inventions that fit the description I'm asking for?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by N3MVF on October 13, 2004
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I think he is referring to the Bengal Famine. I'm not taking sides but there were three such major famines in India while under British control. A few around the 1700's and supposedly one during WWII.
I'm only the messenger.......I just happen to be a history fanatic......
Carry on gents.
73
Greg
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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Hey Greg
Yup, a dreadful business too. But, as you 'say during WW2'.
The problem is that I think somebody made a mistake by saying 'after WW-II'.
He's just incaple of admitting it that's all, ( or alternatively proving his argument ). Very odd behaviour.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 13, 2004
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For what it's worth I admit that originally I had no idea what the guy was talking about.
Had he posted ' Did you know that it's written that Britain engineered a terrible thing? It happened in ( fill as applicable ) and resulted in ( fill as applicable ) I would have read about it, thought about it and maybe learnt something.
Not this guy though. He will toss in accusations like;
'Immediately after WW-II two major US partners in the war, England, and the USSR, committed crimes against humanity of the same order of magnitude as the holocost ( SIC ). But, you know, the winners write the history books'.
He'll calculate that it will ruffle a few feathers and refuse to elaborate.
I reserve comment on his motives or mentality. I am a bit daft though for not taking heed of postings like these:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Folks, please be careful in your responses. Regardless of what you post, Marty will find some reason to disagree with you.
AE6IP has already publicly denigrated my accomplishments in this area, here on eHam. So, while I do have clear examples of ham-initiated inventions created in the past five years, I have no intention of posting further on this thread.
As an earlier post mentioned, be wary of troll bait.
TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT.
Anyone who has ever read anthing from AE6IP knows that he is nothing but a troll. Don't take the bait or fall into his trap. You can reply with a valid post but he will try to discredit you and just have an online arguement over some obscure statement that you made. He only distorts the facts.
His only purpose on this site to start an arguement.
ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE AE6IP'S BAIT?
AE6IP (aka "Marty") is a FART:
Funny
Amateur
Radio
Troll
I don't think this Marty guy is really worth getting worked-up about, as he's apparently several cans shy of a six-pack.
WARNING-----WARNING-----WARNING
Be careful of how you answer Marty--he'll nitpick you to death on semantics and obscure definitions, then he'll tell you you don't know what you're talking about--complete with references from the 1885 edition of Webster's dictionary.
This post is nothing but an attempt to find someone to argue with.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So, he got a response. If this was ever intended as a serious thread I would not have gone on so much. At least none of my threads were deleted by the moderator due to bad language :-)
In the end he was still incapable of answering a direct question but is happy that he got some attention out of the exercise.
Hmmm...
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by KC8VWM on October 13, 2004
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Steve,
>>(England)committed crimes against humanity of the same order of magnitude as the holocost.<<
This statement is just plain stupidity and suggests England is nothing but a country riddled with people conducting acts of terrorism.
This statement is uncalled for.
I think the intentions of the kind people of Great Britain toward the people of the United States has already been clearly demonstrated.
I am not going to sit back and listen to such rhetoric and diatribe lightly. Anyone good enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with the United States in a time of crisis would most certainly deserve more credit than that.
You don't need to explain yourself. Anyone with a stick of common sense already can figure it out on their own my friend.
Charles - KC8VWM
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 13, 2004
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This thread is strange. As for a thread being ""HIJACkED". That is the way it always has been.
Just because someone gets his/her thread published on E-HAM. E-Hammers take the tread to where it goes.
Remember the game TELEPHONE, when you were a Kid?
Nobody is under any type of contract to give you the EXACT INFO IN THE EXACT FORM YOU ARE BEING EXACTING ABOUT! say that one 3 times fast.
However I will give you another ham who used his ham radio experience to invent a non ham radio eletronics device.
His name was JACK FACKLER (r.i.p om) I do not remember his call. I met him many times, because his 2 gig ENG transmitters would not always make FCC commercial spec
ENG stands for electronic news gathering. Those trucks you see from the TV stations are known as ENG trucks.
I know you knew that, I just wanted to fill in the blanks for those that did not know BDCT News Vernacular.
Back in the very late 70's there were only a few companies a TV statio could buy thier 2 GIG ENG systems,TX's and ENG CR RCVRs
Harris/Farinon and RF Technology.
If you were a network are a TV station that had a lot of viewers, you spent the big bux. You went with HARRIS/FARINON. Their 2 GIG ENG EQMT were mil spec.
If you had to save a few hundred thousand dollars in the 1970s you went with JACK FACKLERS RF TECHNOLOGY.
Thier ENG EQMT was crap.
Jack was a ham. He would build his own HF rigs when he was a kid.
He did have the worlds smallest 2 GIG TX. It was the size and weight of a dual band ham mobile. It had 1 Watt of output. It had all XTALED up for all 2gig freqs with 2 splits for a total of 21 channels
Back then an ENG TX had one 4MHZ wide FM modulated video track, and 2 pretty close to CD FM audio tracks.
When you opened one up, it looked like a home brew rig! It kind of was. Jack to save money took a 440MHZ HAM design of his. Modified it to meet FCC BDCST spec.
He then took the output and used a series of varacter diode freq multipliers and cheap transistor amplifiers
to get to 1W@1.9-2.1GHZ.
The prototype passed FCC type acceptance for broadcast quality. Passed barely that is!
The TX's the TV stations got varied from Broadcast quality to a few DB short of spec.
However JACKS TX's only cost the buyers $10,000.
HARRIS/FARINON - 5X the size, 10X the weight-$50,000.
Jacks ENG equipment was refered to as souped up HAM GEAR!
JACK r.i.p If jack were around today, he would just modify a 2.4GIG WLAN.
What is amazing is that jacks designs were Ham in origin. Then modified and filtered.
You can buy a 2.4gig 20mw card for your laptop for $50!
The prices have really fallen!
When one of Jacks TX's died on location, you could call Jack up on the phone. He would hand deliver a loaner. In fact we would always bring 2 TX's because Jacks TX's were that bad! Nice enough Ham however.
Jacks devices were often refered to as JACK F--KLERS &&^^%$^&*(()))*^%$%^&*!!!!! POS. YUP.....RF TECHNOLOGYS
stuff was the MFJ of Broadcast equipment!!!!!
73 to all. MIKE WA2JJH
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by OLDFART13 on October 13, 2004
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hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahaha
This struff is too funny. Is anyone out there taking this seriously? This guy is obviously bootlegging someone elses callsign to post because no one would post such nonsense with an actual callsign....would they.?!
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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> Yup, a dreadful business too. But, as you 'say
> during WW2'.
> The problem is that I think somebody made a mistake
> by saying 'after WW-II'.
Yup. The famine arose in '43. "after WW-II" was a mistake. I misremembered the date by 3 years.
Kind of like the various assertions you've made about my claim. Care to own up to any of your mistakes?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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>>(England)committed crimes against humanity of the
>> same order of magnitude as the holocost.
> This statement is just plain stupidity and suggests
> England is nothing but a country riddled with people
> conducting acts of terrorism.
It's not terrorism, it's genocide. It wasn't committed by everyone in England, and it was 60 years ago. (England, by the way *is* a country with people conducting acts of terrorism. Why do you think security is so tight at Heathrow?)
> This statement is uncalled for.
In the context of the original thread, it was indeed called for.
> I think the intentions of the kind people of Great
> Britain toward the people of the United States has
> already been clearly demonstrated.
Many times. But we're not talking about the United States in 2004, we're talking about Bengal in 1943. Using the same behavior as caused the potato "famine", the British starved 2 million people to death. It's not the worst such crime. They starved far more Irish to death at an earlier time, and Stalin killed more than even Hitler managed.
> I am not going to sit back and listen to such
> rhetoric and diatribe lightly. Anyone good enough to
> stand shoulder to shoulder with the United States in
> a time of crisis would most certainly deserve more
> credit than that.
If I'd made the comment about the Soviet Union, which stood shoulder to shoulder with the US in WW-II, and suffered far more than either the British or the US did in that war, mentioning Stalin, would you make the same claim?
> You don't need to explain yourself. Anyone with a
> stick of common sense already can figure it out on
> their own my friend.
The US has a long list of allies who have committed attrocities. Bin Laden and Hussain come to mind; as does Stalin.
The US itself has committed a few.
History isn't pretty; but it's intellectually dishonest to pretend what happened didn't. The British were barbarians as colonial rulers, and the Bengal famine was one of the last gasps of a dying empire.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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> think he is referring to the Bengal Famine. I'm not
> taking sides but there were three such major famines
> in India while under British control. A few around
> the 1700's and supposedly one during WWII.
Well, 2 million or more (some estimates put the number at 5 million) people died in the one that "supposedly" happened during WW-II; it is well documented; and it formed the starting point for Sen's research for which he won the Nobel prize.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Quote AE6IP
'Yup. The famine arose in '43. "after WW-II" was a mistake'
Hurrah - we got there in the end! No need to apologise though :-)
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU ( busy at work ).
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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So Steve,
you wrote near the start of this:
> I fell out with sMarty some time ago on another ham
> radio forum. It was due to his unfounded accusation
> that the U.K. had committed some sort of atrocity
> causing the deaths of 6 million people. It was
> alleged ( by him ) to have been committed in the
> 1950's.
Care to acknowledge the three blatent errors in that claim?
And please, tell me, did you really mean by
> Had it been anything less emotive I might have been
> better able to forgive and forget.
that you were so emotionally torn up by my describing a famine that extended from 1943-1945 as having happened "shortly after WW-II" that you had to behave as you have in this thread?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Mary
Let me make it easy for you:
You are a winner!
You are a great guy. Everybody loves you because you are always correct. You are very clever. You are beautiful. Your destiny is to make dodgy ( google inspired ) statements on internet forums in order to prove your manhood.
There you are, you have achieved something today - well done.
Lot's of love from your friend in the U.K.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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http://www.psych.org/public_info/choosing_psych/index.cfm
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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Somehow, Steve, it doesn't surprise me that after all your whining about willingness to admit error that you would be unable to do so.
It's not about 'winning', Steve, it's about understanding. As far as 'dodgey' facts, I recommend you read Sen's work.
By the way, I'm not always correct; I am, in fact, quiet ugly; and I'm not the one with issues over his masculinity.
You were right that I'm a good guy and I'm clever though.
Also, I don't think the APA will do you any good, over there, but I'm glad to see that you're taking the first step.
I don't suppose you know of any amateur inventions that fit what I'm looking for?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Mary
I give up, you win. You are great. You have beaten me and the whole of the internet community. Everything you say is very wise. Did you remember to tell your partner that you are proud to have achieved something today?
Just one thing though:
Quote AE6IP:
'I'm not the one with issues over his masculinity'.
Where did that come from? What's on your mind? Are you concerned about something?
Steve.
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ATTN EHam Moderators
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Are you guys o.k. for me to continue with this or should I be quiet now?
I wouldn't like to upset you, the Eham bosses. I like it here and learn a great deal from the Elmers section.
I've never been banned from a web forum and don't choose to risk it over this person.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU.
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RE: ATTN EHam Moderators
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Mary Mary quite contrary!
'I'm not the one with issues over his masculinity'.
:-)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 14, 2004
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Well,
now that we have that out of the way, if anyone is still with us, can we get back to the question?
I'm still looking for amateur inventions that are similar to Pactor in that they were invented by amateurs, for use in the amateur service, and were later adopted into other radio services.
Surely Pactor isn't the only one?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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< AE6IP >
< 'I'm not the one with issues over his masculinity' >
Please don't start that 'post some stuff and then ignore what you don't like' thing again.
What's on your mind?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by OLDFART13 on October 14, 2004
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Steve, you, and everyone else, should just ignore the king of trolls. We have all taken his bait and provided much enjoyment for him. We should all feel so stupid!
It's like the sign at a zoo that reads "Don't feed the animals." But it should read "Don't take the bait of the Trolls."
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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O.F.
I know you are right but I worry about the innocents. I think of people just entering amateur radio ( and therefore it's net forums ). They won't know to ignore him.
I've seen too many times the way that AE6IP picks on a person - takes their words and tunrns them around in order to 'win' a (started by himself ) argument.
Steve.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by G7HEU on October 14, 2004
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Anyway, he's gone very quiet on the;
'I'm not the one with issues over his masculinity. '
Bet you $10 he's busy on a search engine for some nonsense that he can then post here to make himself feel like a winner.
I'm off to sleep now.
Steve
M0HEU / G7HEU @ 00:00 local.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 15, 2004
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mARCUS AURELLIUS and many other stoic philosophers explain people like Marty very well.
Since ancient times we have had our crooks,politians,mad men, scientist, military, our artisans, and MALCONTANTS/MISENTHROPICS.
Would not the world be a boring place if you were all the same.
I am not condoning Martys obvious hidden agenda on eham. He could be worse. He could be a serial killer.
I do suspect marty may like to play revisionist historian/neo natzi/anti-anglo /antisocial phenotype.
What ever the case..he sure likes to piss people off. It is always your choice to play chess with Marty.
I would rather play poker with a group of friends!
There is no way the whole planet will be happy.
Those with unpopular views ARE NOT affected by angry feed back. In fact they get off on it! They look for it.
Dang....I sound like Jerry Springer 73
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by N2MG on October 15, 2004
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If I have my facts correct, what most of us have come to know and love (or hate) as "PacketCluster" was created by Dick Newell, AK1A, in the 1980s. It was originally developed for passing DX spots around in the New England area for his contest club, YCCC. It later evolved into quite a successful business under the name Cerulean Technology (now part of Aether). It is still sold to this day to public service agencies such as police departments and used for mobile data transfer (license plate checks, mug shots, reports, etc.)
Mike N2MG
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 16, 2004
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Here is what I think I've learned from my research.
Opinions and comments are very welcome at this point.
1) Amateurs tend to overestimate the _direct_ contribution amateurs have made to advancing the state of the radio art.
2) However, prior to the 1970s, the hobby provided direct encouragement to a wide range of people who then became involved in electronics. Very many contribution to advancing the radio art have been made by people who started in amateur radio and then went on to become professionals.
3) While amateur radio still remains a hobby that allows personal growth in the radio art, the electronics industry has, by and large, passed the hobby by, and most people come to electronics from interests other than amateur radio. Computers and robotics seem to be the most common, although since the mid-90s, the computer industry has mostly passed hobbiests by, and robotics interets seem to be the strong starting point, these days.
4)The most fruitful area for amateur advanced is, and has been for some time, digital protocols for long distance communication, either in the form of packet nets, or, more strikingly, in the form of HF protocol development.
This suggests that if the FCC wishes to meet its obligation in 97.1, it should modify the rules to encourage more experimentation in digital protocols, esspecially for HF, and investigate ways to open up amateur radio to tele-presence and tele-robotics.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 16, 2004
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If you have not read the book yet....I think you like.....
"Man of High Fidelity" The Biography of Major Armstrong.
He was the Leonardo DE Vinchy(excuss spelling) of all radio period!
He was an eletronics hobbyest first. He got caught up with what Marconi had done.
He was on the air unlicensed during the spark gap days of amatuer radio.
He invented Super-regeneration, and Superhetrodyne theory as well as build the first prototype TX's and.! RX's!
All he really wanted to do was to get better fidelity for music programing on the old tube TRF radio of the time. He did not think about the big bux!
His wideband FM proved be immune to tank engines.
The military saw the huge tactical advantage.
Yeah, he won some type of award from the signal corps.
After the war, he went on the air with the first FM radio station in New Alpine NJ. He just got a written letter from the FCC, stating that his hi-FI mono station was ok to be an experiment.
It was his obsession to get MUSIC to sound good on the radio. The BIG BOY 50 KW clear channel AM stations
NEVER SAW FM STEREO S A THREAT TO PLATE MODULATED AM
MONO. WHO NEEDED TO HEAR MUSIC ABOVE 5kc!
Lots of patent fights. He was not a very good business man! Most think he just wanted FM-stereo for a group of audiophiles. His 75KC FM for 20-15kc production was great.
Again the military saw 15kc channels perfect for under 5KC voice transmission. 100% modulation efficiancy VS
AM's 12.5-33% MODULATION EFFICIENCY. > 33% was acheived by the military. This type of modulation was SSB with
carrier. This was a pre-curser to SSB. They had to use some carrier, because equipment was not stable enough.
The lines between amatuer, inventor, electronics engineer, and audiophile are very blurred.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 17, 2004
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AE6IP said "Amateurs tend to overestimate the _direct_ contribution amateurs have made to advancing the state of the radio art. "
TROLL ALERT !!!!
Come on Marty, at least you could make your trolls a little less obvious....
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History of Amateur Invention
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by W0XI on October 17, 2004
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I have a truly authentic example, but after seeing all of the responses to this article I hesitate to produce it.
Note to the author. What is your intent once you've collected some examples? Do you plan to publish the results (for $ or free)and where? To what purpose would the list and documented examples serve? This is a serious question.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 17, 2004
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many of us here have science degrees. I have two patent pendings on BIO-med devices. The University gets the patent.
Many engineering places make you sign off on any intellectual property.
There might be much, they might be a few.
How about the 8 pole collins mechanical filter.
Hams would love to have the collins mechanical filter,
in their rig.
When I went to train on 13GIG stls, many of the Harris/farinon engineers were hams.
I do not know where this is leading. Could Marty be doing a ""GOOd thing''. Perhaps educating some PRO-BPL
bastard liers. Giving a talk at a school?
OR WE COULD ALL JUST HAVE BITE THE BAIT FOR A FOUST
FOLLY!!!!!!!WHO CARES!!!! AINT GONNA RUIN MY DAY!
73 MIKE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 17, 2004
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> I have a truly authentic example, but after seeing
> all of the responses to this article I hesitate to
> produce it.
I am sorry to hear that. I am honestly interested in such examples.
> Note to the author. What is your intent once you've
> collected some examples?
Only to learn from them.
> Do you plan to publish the results (for $ or free)
> and where?
No. The knowledge will contribute to my understanding of the history of technology, and so, indirectly, will influence anything I write on the philosophy of science, but I have no plan of publishing directly on the topic.
> To what purpose would the list and documented
> examples serve? This is a serious question.
It would help satisfy my curiousity about the history ofthe hobby.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 17, 2004
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> Come on Marty, at least you could make your trolls a
>little less obvious....
Yes, if I were trolling, I would be "less obvious".
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 18, 2004
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I am sure you did the same thing when you worked in BDCSTING. One of our ENG trucks wanted a better way to cue talent on live shots.
We just got a new fangled mobile cell phone(1985) calls were 75 cents a minute!
So I designed and built an interface box. The reporter would get thier cues from a wireless RCVR
in an ear piece.
So I interfaced the celluar phone into the wireless IFB system. When they saw the phone bills, they screamed bloody murder! Actually the cameraman and I were using the cell phone to impress woman.
So I added the output of the 450mhz 2 way radio.
The box had a switch, 2 pots and isolation transformers.
When we were close enough we used the 2 way radio. The director had a 2 wayradio and a telephone side by side.
We now had a choice of cueing talent from cell phone or the UHF radio or both. I would often mix the 2 audio's. The AMPS cell phone service back then would drop out ALL THE TIME. Not good for a live show.
My ham radio experience helped me come up with this gizmo. I never thaught to patent it. Such an easy design.
However.....somebody else did!!!!!! Saw the ad for the commercial product in Broadcast engineering.
My idea was not so novel. Somebodys ENG truck engineer came up with the same idea for the same situation.
I think many hams design gizmo's. We just do not feel like paying a lawyer $1500-$20,000 to do a patent search, get a provisional patent, patent pending,patent, then market the inventions. Only to have the idea ripped off!!!
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by OLDFART13 on October 18, 2004
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by RADIO123US on October 17, 2004
AE6IP said "Amateurs tend to overestimate the _direct_ contribution amateurs have made to advancing the state of the radio art. "
"TROLL ALERT !!!!
Come on Marty, at least you could make your trolls a little less obvious...."
You finally figured this out? Obviously he had an alternate agenda. Some of us are so gulible or we just can't resist troll bait.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by W0XI on October 18, 2004
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Marty,
I'm the guy who said I had an authentic example. Here it is.
The first "technically oriented" person to map the celestial sphere (heavens) using radio means with (something other than an optical telescope) was a ham, Grote Reber. He did his work in the late 1930s and 1940s. The story is interesting. He submitted his results to a technical journal, edited at MIT, and was rejected. They weren't sure his results were real. Later on they relented and he was published in several Physics Journals under the title COSMIC STATIC in the 1940s. I've been to the U. of Kansas library and read all of them. Very enjoyable.
Basically, here's what Dr. Kraus (of Ohio St and Big Ear fame) had to say about Grote:
"Reber devoted considerable effort to an understanding of the limitations of his receiving equipment. He recognized that the antenna-receiver combination acts like a bolometer, or heat-measuring device, in which the radiation resistance of the antenna measures the equivalent temperature of distant parts of space to which it is projected by the antenna response pattern."
Reber was the first to make a radio map of the starry sky. Fact! He made his own equipment, including the 9 meter dish, and carried out the research at him home location. No grants here!
My take on "amateur" invention is that contributions are still possible (with new ideas in particular) but that systems and chips, requiring massive amounts of $$$ and facilities, would be an unlikely arena.
73s, Phil Anderson, W0XI, Lawrence KS (of lesser Packet Radio fame). My firm produced over 1/4 millin packet radio modems over a decades period. Not bad.
MAY THE "KTB" in your life be with you, i.e. the "heat" of Johnson noise.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 18, 2004
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Old-F, I am not falling for anything. I like to write about Ham and commercial TV and Radio.
I found my Ham ticket my entry into BDCST.
There is an old saying about getting work in BDCST.
""It is not what you know....but who you know""
I did not know ANY union people. However where ever I interviewed, the asst CE or the CE was a HAM!
It was not my FCC 1st phone that got me gigs and full time jobs. IT WAS MY HAM LIC.
The interviews got easy as soon as I and the CE would start talking Ham Radio.
Ham Radio opened many doors for me. I will always remember that.
So, I might be a FOUST FOLLY FODDER. So far Marty has not been rude to me. Yes, I have had my share of Foust fights before..I am in no way defending Martys past behavior.
I thought other hams would like to read about the very little I know about history of Amateur Invention.
If it turns out I get FOUSTED, then you all can laugh at me. As I will have really deserved it.
This is a long time for a set up. NO?
Sorry if my 2 cents bothers people. We should make others aware of Ham Radio invention. BPL just got approved!!!!!!
73 MIKE
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 18, 2004
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Marty, I know your cheif complaint against Hams are in the minority. I know the type your talking about.
The "SPACE CADETS" AND ""COP-WANNA-BES".
So far Hams can be credited technicly with.
1)Superhet RX
2)FM wide for BDCST FM STEREO
3)FM(NAR) for emergency communications
4)Packet
5)gattling gun- Hirim Percy Marx-W1AW. The phallanxe gun on current navy navy
6)The mechanical IF filter 8 pole disc type Collins.
Even today the most desired IF filter you can buy.
How about this one. Ham radio was the first way complete strangers could talk to each other wireless.
Is not that a social invention?
People in chat rooms,CB,and GMRS.......Are not they derivative of hams talking to each other by spark gap TX and gallina/cat whisker receivers?
I am sure I missed a lot. Perhaps that people will see this is an interesting legit question to ask.........Perhaps others will come foward with other inventions by hams. or some will feel obligated make corrections or invalidate my statements ! :)
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 18, 2004
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Phil,
Thank you. While not a precise example of what I was looking for, Reber's story is an excellent example of amateur contribution and one I should have been aware of.
You've made it clear that I need to also consider scientific contributions as well as technologic ones.
73
Marty
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 18, 2004
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Mike WA2JJH,
One small correction to your list: Hams adopted and adapted packet radio, but didn't invent it. The University of Hawaii's Aloha net predates ham packet by about 5 years. The Aloha net experiments led to the design of ethernet and ethernet led, indirectly, to ham packet.
The Montreal Amateur Radio Club pretty much were the first amateur packet operators, starting in the late 1970s.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 18, 2004
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OLDFART13 said "You finally figured this out? Obviously he had an alternate agenda. Some of us are so gulible or we just can't resist troll bait."
I've known he was a troll for a long time. You don't get banned from QRZ.COM for being nice.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 18, 2004
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AE6IP said "It would help satisfy my curiousity about the history ofthe hobby."
Marty, from what I've read of your posts, it seems in your TWO years of ham radio experience, you have become the expert on every topic. I can't believe there would be ANY subject related to this hobby that you would not be expert on by now. So why the curiousity ? Don't you already know the answer ?
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 18, 2004
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> Marty, from what I've read of your posts, it seems
> in your TWO years of ham radio experience, you have
> become the expert on every topic.
Well, you're wrong twice then. First, I've got far more than two years experience on most of the topics I've written on. Second, I've written on very few topics.
But it's a common mistake that hams make on internet forums, equating length of license hold with level of experience.
> I can't believe there would be ANY subject related
> to this hobby that you would not be expert on by now.
Your confidence is inspiring. Especially when the list of topics I haven't written on reads like the table of contents of the ARRL handbook.
(To save you the trouble of looking: three subjects about which I know absolutely nothing, as far as ham radio, are EME, ISS, and satellites. There's a much longer list of aspects of the hobby I know very little about, including restoring boatanchors)
> So why the curiousity?
Curiosity is the driving force in my character makeup.
> Don't you already know the answer?
I'm not even sure I know the question, yet.
I started studying the history of technology in the '80s, when I was at NASA. At that time I concentrated on aviation and electronics. When I became interested in model railroading, I added transportation. Now I'm learning about the history of technology in amateur radio.
Something I learned at NASA that has stuck with me is that a lot of "folklore" history is simply wrong.
Take, for example, the connection between NASA and Teflon. In the '80s, a lot of people believed that Teflon was invented for the space program. You still meet people who believe that. Teflon was invented in the '30s.
So I try to find primary sources and document the actual history. With amateur radio, I'm having trouble finding and documenting the aspect that has to do with amateur invention. Everyone seems to know that there was a lot of amateur invention, but none of the sources I consulted have been very forthcoming on what it is.
I asked here, hoping to come across better sources. And I've found three, so far. Perhaps, were it not for the "fan club" scaring people away, I might have found even more.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 18, 2004
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> I've known he was a troll for a long time.
Clearly the word 'troll' doesn't mean to you what it means to me. Just what *do* you mean when you say someone is a 'troll'?
> You don't get banned from QRZ.COM for being nice.
Depends on who you're being nice to.
You also don't get banned from QRZ for being a troll.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 18, 2004
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OK cool, I stand corrected.
There are many other contributions ham radio has led too. Either directly,sychronisity, and serendipity.
This is a subject I think should be looked at.
We should find every ham that has invented or innovated.
Maybe your timing is good. COLON POWELLS KID said let their be BPL! I guess this kid feels internet for the mass's is some sort of panacea. We all know the real deal.
The 2.4 GIG WLAN base is great in NYC. All Starbucks have 2.4 gig systems that give NYC an almost cell like coverage. Many other places have 802B free as well.
BPL will hit rural area's. Perhaps hams an be of help. If an area is being wired for BPL, set up a free 2.4 GIG system.
It is a matter of running fiber or microwave links from a place that is an internet gateway.
They do make legal booster amps for the $79 base stations.
Hams do have seven channels or so in the 2.4 gig band. Hams are allowed much power too. Legal limit would create interference. There is also the problem with what content we can transmit on our 2.4 gig band.
No commercials, porn, and pop up ads.
We could offer a search engine, I think?
The idea is that if your neigbors are getting wired for BPL, no harm in telling them that getting internet through cable TV is much better(for hams anyway)
If you live in an area tht is going to get BPL, set up a cable modem with a legal booster amp.
One cheap diversity 2.4 gig base will service 20 computers.
Of course rumors that BPL causes cancer are bound to pop up! I did not say it!
Perhaps a group of hams want to go into the MPDS business. One can run atleast 1 watt ERP unlicensed commercial. Perhaps some phone company or cable company would want to compete with BPL.
Perhaps your huge tower has space for 3 120 degree
phased slot array antenna. Simply put in the base for 2.4gig in a weather proof box. Simply run 12Vdc and rg-59 to the base and antenna pre-amps.
Hams not only invent, they innovate and think!
Here is an idea for a simple invention. Run with it.
All the parts really are at radio shack!
Make a bird feeder that has several diversity antenna's and a few linksys wireless internet routers.
If BPL comes to your town, cut a commercial deal with your cable company. Pay the slightly higher commercial rate. Take the output of a few cable modems
feed them into the linksys bases with the legal amplifiers.
Put the whole package up on a high location. Offer free 2.4 gig wireless cards in front of the BPL payment center.
I think people would go for free broadband via a $50 USB broadband computer plug in.
You can use 2 watts lic free on the 1.2GHZ ISM
band.(IMS=industial, scientific, medical).
You can use the IMS band with directional antennas to link together wireless 2.4 GIG routers.
PERHAPS THE ARRL CAN PETITION THE FCC FOR HAMS OFFER A FREE ALTERNATIVE TO BPL!!!
Marty....does that qualify as an amateur Innovation/invention? Hams using their skills to set up a legal commercial venture to fairly offer free broadband option over BPL?
IF a group of 20 hams chipped in $100, they could offer their neighbors free broadband instead of inferior colon cancer causing BPL!!!!!
73 to all MIKE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by RADIO123US on October 18, 2004
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AE6IP said "Well, you're wrong twice then. First, I've got far more than two years experience on most of the topics I've written on. "
Marty, you may very well have had experience in other areas, but the fact remains you have only been a licensed ham for TWO years.
I'll give you some advice...
I know it doesn't matter to YOU, but to ALOT of hams on this site, you are still a rookie, and you'll never win any friends by insulting the EXPERIENCED hams, even if you THINK you are smarter and more educated. If you come right down to it, I think this is what got you booted off of QRZ..Fred finally got tired of you insulting the users of his site. You have frequently said that you don't care what others think, and that's your right to feel that way...but trust me, if you get enough folks mad at you, and they start complaining to the webmasters here, my guess is they will make the same "business decision" that Fred made....and I don't think it will be in your favor....
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 18, 2004
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You really are hung up about that mistaken belief about experience, aren't you?
You're also confused, again, about what I've written here. I _disagree_ with some hams here. I don't _insult_ them. The problem, of course, is that some people can't cope with being disagreed with, and take the disagreement personal. That's their problem, not mine.
As individuals, I respect most of the posters here. A couple of real trolls get no respect from me, and a couple of kooks, but other than those three or four people, I respect the individuals _as individuals_.
But I defer to no one's "experience" in a discussion. Rather, I defer to demonstrated expertise. If you can make a better case than I can, that I'll accept your case. If you can't, I don't care how long you've been around.
Another place where you're wrong is that Fred didn't kick me from QRZ. Actually, you seem to be pretty consistently wrong in your assessment of me.
Oh, and don't get too hung up on that 'smarter' thing. I was a strong B student, and never near the top of the class; and it's been that way throughout my career. I'm perfectly happy with being a medium sized fish, as the saying goes.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 18, 2004
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Hmmmmm,The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was you seem to find little acheivement in hams that do mods on their rigs. It is an aquired taste for some.
The way those minirigs are built, one wrong move and your done!
There is one dude on Eham that takes old Drake R-4C's and redesigns and rebuilds that vintge RX.
His highly moded R-4C's perform better than any ham rig today. The R4-c as you know has many tubes. He made solid state replacements.
Many other hams have redesigned thier rigs. You can do that with the older rigs.
I have one Drake TR-7 that I built my own front end.
I used the schematic as a guide. However I used a new lower moise mixer. I then moded the PBT to work more like the r-7. The mic input amp is a balanced design.
I optimised the alc's time constants. Re-did the audio output. The rig really has that tube sound. You now like in very little cross over distortion. No it does not sound as good as a Marshal Amp run on 130 volts! hi-hi. Was that a Van Halen trick or did hendrix do the high line voltage trick first?
Sorry Marty, I take great pride in my re-engineered rigs. Thats one part of the hobby I like the best.
Well, you have taken an interest in ham radio invention. That seems to be a new thing you have found interesting. The evolution part has been one of my favorites too. It is a very interesting one indeed.
It seems some of todays hams could care less.
If you do more reasearch you will see that the very early hams were just experimenters.
I forgot where I heard about this experiment. How radar was invented by accident. A couple of spark gap hams used a 10M dish like piece of metal in back of the spark gap.
This did two things. The dish resonated at 10M, and made the signal very directional. That they expected.
The did not know they got a 10Meter harmonic of the very broadband spark spectrum. They did not know they invented the first freq multiplier. They just wanted the RF to be directional.
Then another discovery. They were operating accoss a small body of water. When a boat passed by thier line of sight spark gap, the RX ham noticed the signal totally vanished when the ship passed by.
Guess what, they discovered one of the theories behind radar. This experiment went no where for a while.
They did not know they created the first "Microwaves". 10M was considered UHF and of no use back then!
If you see any footage of old radars, you will see the large dish. You will also see a dipole in the center of it. The dipole was very large. It looked to be about 6 feet long in each direction.
So early radar used what we call VHF-lo frequencies.
30-50mhz. They then found that 400MHZ worked much better.
Many of the old radio men played with a home built spark gap TX. The Hams were unlicensed. They were just a bunch of experimenters., Novel hobby types, engineers, and some made up their own call signs. There was no FCC doing the testing or giving calls!
As soon as the hobby types started to interfere with the militaries experiments and communications, the communications act was born.
So yes, hams/hobbyist as well as engineers invented radio.
Even the boy scouts were radio pioneers. I saw an ancient boy scout science experiment book. The last project was a wireless set. Spark gap and all. I would guess that is why there was always a boy scout merit badge for code. We should check did they have the CW merit badge during the wired telegraph days.
Ham radio has a proud and interesting history.
I wish Colon Powells kid knew better of what he is affecting!!
Perhaps Marty, you can see why some get annoyed when you say....It is just a hobby. Does not bother me.
Howvever those that grew up on it, do not see happy days ahead! In my short time of being on the air for 30 years, I have seen a decline in fellowship and quality of QSO's.
73 MIKE
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 19, 2004
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> The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was you
> seem to find little acheivement in hams that do mods
> on their rigs.
I have no idea how I gave you that impression; but be insured that I find it an achievement if you can successsfully modify a rig.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by AE6IP on October 19, 2004
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Mike,
That's an interesting story about RADAR. However, the history of radio-distance-finding (RDF) is a little bit more complicated than that.
Conceptually, RADAR was known about from the work of Maxwell. Hertz showed that radio waves would reflect. Christian Huelsmeyer built the first practical RDF, although it was limited to about 3km accuracy. Tesla proposed and described an RDF system but never built it. Appleton used RDF to determine the height of the ionosphere. Then, just prior to WWII, Watson-Watt developed Chain-Home. The history of radar after that is well documented, and makes fascinating reading.
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 19, 2004
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Two ways of skinning a cat(I like cats)
Sure the calculas of Maxwell and hertz would perdict a radar systems behavior.
These dudes had NO MATH bacground, and accidentally got 10M harmonics from the 30 foot backing (dish like)
I just thaught these dudes were cool about their findings.
Did you know EINSTEIN perdicted lasers using math, years before Townsand and his partner built the first working ruby/flashlamp laser.
Einstein had the population inversion effect down.
I just love it when the 2 ham dudes found from thier experiment. True they also missed out on the doppler
shift equation too. They also neglectd many other variables.
This point was made with the super-regen/superhet battle betreen Major Armstrong and the patent rip off scam man De-forast!
Armstrong had the math. Got the patent ater much time
73 L%
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History of Amateur Invention
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by WA2JJH on October 19, 2004
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NEWS FLASH..........
BPL PROVEN TO SHORTEN THE MTBF OF ANY ELECTRONIC DEVICE THAT IS PLUGGED INTO A BPL AC OUTLET!
I JUST INVENTED A BOGUS HYPOTHOSIS.
BE GREAT IF I WAS RIGHT!
BPL IN BIASED NON BLIND STUDIES HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE COLON CANCER, PERIFERAL NUEROPATHY,IMPOTENCE,
AND OPTIRECTALITOUS.
THIS CAME AFTER A 30 SECOND STUDY BY A BIO-MEDICAL ENGINEER.
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by M3WBS on October 21, 2004
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You have all forgotten one thing Hams came up with...EHAM.NET...How else could so many people disagree about things so easily, without leaving their chair (with the cushon on).
P.S The Chocholate Radio is no good, I have tried it and every time the P.A's warm up the back half of my radio melts :)
Well all this has been entertaining to say the least.
Enjoy the hobby everyone.
Steve/M3WBS
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RE: History of Amateur Invention
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by K1YDA on November 23, 2004
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The Gattling gun was invented by ----Gattling not HPM. who constructed and sold a form of single barrel autoloading rapid fire crew served weapon. He did not "invent the 30-06". He did invent a noise muffler which was used on firearms as well as engines. As far as the Maxum machine gun...well John Browning did it better.
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