Calling CQ
Dave Weir (N9DSW)
on
July 7, 2000
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During the recent Field Day exercise, I visited the local repeater groups' gathering at a
state park. I haven't been to a field day since 1988, when I first got licensed. I stopped by a tent that was working 20M. WOW!, what I have missed over the past 8 yrs of
non-activity!
But what got my attention was how many stations would call CQ. Some so many times that they
didn't stop long enough to listen for a QRZ! One station called CQ for over 5 minutes, and stopped for about 10 seconds, before stating on the same rant again. Over next ten minutes 15 other stations did the same thing.
I was taught to call CQ about of 3 times, give my call sign, then wait for a response, if nothing came within a minute or so, call CQ again.
To this day I still follow that rule. I just recently purchased a new HF rig, and got back on 10M, there too, hams are calling CQ so much, that they are not allowing for other stations to return
a call to their CQ.
I tuned down through the lower bands to listen, again too many hams calling CQ way too many times, calling so much that they never get a response back.
I know everyone has their own operating procedures, but come on, calling CQ for ten minutes without a break, especially during a contest or FD
doesn't help out those who need the points or the contact.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by KD4ZD on July 7, 2000
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I AGREE WHOLE HEARTEDLY. ANOTHER THING I HATE IS HEARING "CQ DX" ON THE DOMESTIC BAND PLAN FREQUENCIES. EVERY BAND HAS A "DX WINDOW". YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR WHEELS CALLING "CQ DX" OUTSIDE OF THIS AREA. WHICH BRINGS ME TO A COMMENT ABOUT AN AQUAINTANCE OF MINE. HE THINKS ALL THE FCC RULES, ALL THE BAND PLANS & ALL LONG ESTABLISHED TRADITIONS IN HAM RADIO ARE SPECIFICALLY AGAINST HIS PERSONAL FREEDOM. AND AS AN AMERICAN HE IS GOING TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. THAT RULES ARE FOR EVERYONE ELSE! WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY LAST POINT. TWO DAYS AGO SIX METERS HAD THE BEST OPENING I'VE HEARD IN TEN YEARS. IT WAS RUINED BY PEOPLE RUNNING WAY TOO MUCH POWER. SOME SIGNALS WERE SPLATTERING THIRTY KC'S. REMEMBER KIDDIES, YOU ARE VIOLATING AN FCC REGULATION WHEN YOU USE MORE POWER THAN NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN YOUR QSO. (OF COURSE, THIS RULE IS NEVER ENFORCED) AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THE "MAGIC BAND" IS LOST IN THE PROCESS. SIX METERS WILL GO FURTHER WITH LESS POWER THAN ANY OTHER BAND, IN MY EXPIERENCE.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N0RKX on July 7, 2000
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Ditto the views already expressed with one addition.
VOICE KEYERS during contests. I have no doubt that they are useful in a contest from an operator fatigue and rate point of view, but, what use is a voice keyer if you don't program in enough time between CQ's?
In the recent ARRL DX contest I tried for 3 minutes to return a call by someone who had MAYBE 3 seconds of listen time built in. Your just taking up valuable space operating that way. The keyer may be a time and voice saver but what use is it if all you do is send CQ WITHOUT LISTENING FOR A RESPONSE?
Shorten up the CQ's and LISTEN in between.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by AC5UP on July 7, 2000
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Speaking of the Six Meter band opening on Wednesday night, July 5th...
I've been doing a local FM Simplex ragchew net for two years with a working radius of about 30 miles. That covers the Tulsa metro area nicely and we usually hear 8-10 regular check-ins. This past Wednesday we had a new kid, KC5JAR, check in with a solid signal that I assumed was a local testing out a new rig or antenna.
Worked down the list to find KC5JAR also thought we were a local net... In Houston.
'The Group' runs a variety of antennas and rigs ranging from 'pretty good' through 'pretty bad' and it made no difference on the far end of the circuit.
Amazin' Band!
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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Anonymous post on July 7, 2000
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Here's what happens here. Field Day planning starts at the local club, where 99% of the 'hams' don't have an HF station of their own. Many are 'extras', which is downright amazing! Extra what is all I gotta say. Anyway, then on Friday many slackers show up, primarily for the 'potluck'. On Saturday, it's 'where is everybody?'. A few stragglers find their way to the site in old beat up pickup trucks and beater cars w/ 2m whips and CB antennas plastered on them. Of course, there is usually ONE 'real' ham (experience AND brains) that shoulders 99% of the load. He has a 'real' antenna and a 'real' rig even! He shakes his head as he watches the other club members/nimrods do nothing but maybe chime in with a stupid comment once in a while. What's this all leading to? Well, once a year a bunch of yokel's attack the HF bands are sound like CRAP! Then it's back to 12 months of do-nothing club meetings, one parade, a couple of attempts at the autopatch, and a whole lotta' nothing!
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Calling CQ
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by WA8NAZ on July 7, 2000
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I TRIED to give some of these FD Cqers a contact, but mostly they couldn't hear me. Funny I never have that problem in SS, ARRL and CQ DX contests, and especially in ARRL 10 meter contest. Yes there are some abusers of the CQ call, but not the extent I notice it on FD. I listened to one hapless cqer call cq for 20 minutes without a qso, even though many were calling.
The voice keyer is the one of the most misused items in ham radio. Yes they save your voice, but are often left running to cover bathroom trips, meals, beer runs, you name it.
Of course the main reason is to KEEP THE FREQUENCY whether or not any contacts are being made on it.
Field Day does get a lot of new ops contest experience, but maybe the best place for learning is not the environment that field day provides. Many green contest operators would have trouble completing a contest qso at their home station, let alone the noisy distracting environment that most FD setups have. (Generators, kibitzers, partiers, etc.).
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RE: Calling CQ
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by K1OU on July 7, 2000
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I think some very good points have been mentioned here. The thing about Field Day, is that while it is a chance for people with limited experience to get some operating time, I didn't hear very much elmering. People sitting around listening instead of jumping in and at least trying, lengthy cq's, non-standard phonetics, and the one thing that drove me nuts was the "suffix only" syndrome. I think that some people need to step up before the event and give newbies a primer on the how-to-do's, the what-to-do's, and the what-not-to do's. Granted, Field Day is a social occasion for many, but it shouldn't sound like a sloppy social occasion. And, what about it being time to revamp the Field Day scoring a bit, making all cw and ssb contacts worth two points, and all digital contacts worth five. The ssb ops are being penalized, when in fact, their rates are much higher, so it really is a disincentive. Thoughts??
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by W8FAX on July 7, 2000
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I agree with most said here. Memory keyers and voice cards make for boring operation anyway. I hear the guys on CW sitting and calling and calling and calling, but none working each other??? I have used the 3X3 method for a long time with good results. I hear ops who send K two times at the end of CQ's on CW too. Is that "over over"?? Just a comment on splatter. It is not caused by hi power by itself, but can certainly be made worse by it. The most common error is hams unfamiliar with the equipment, and they run the audio gain way too high so the meter will deflect. Also, turning on the processor without reducing audio gain will cause splatter.............Things change Al
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by WM5R on July 7, 2000
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Field Day is perhaps a unique situation with an unusually high number of inexperienced, ill-informed, and neophyte operators.
I would like to refute N0RKX's comment about contesters with voice keyers listening "MAYBE 3 seconds" between CQs being a problem, though. Three seconds is plenty of time for someone to begin saying a callsign. All they have to do is say one syllable, and that contester (unless he or she is dense) will not call CQ again, but will wait for the rest of the callsign, and work the station. An intelligent operator isn't going to call CQ again on top of you just because you can't fit your whole callsign into a three second window. If, in that three second window, they hear anything at all, they're going to try to figure out who it is and work them if possible.
Odds are, if someone is calling CQ over and over in a contest and every time you send your callsign, they CQ on top of you, you're not being heard. Line noise and other local noise sources can sometimes make a station into an "alligator" (all mouth, no ears) and they don't even know it.
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CQ CQ CQ
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by WA3SLN on July 8, 2000
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Come on up or down to 30 meter CW (you know the morse code thing) we don't seem to have any of these problems !!!!
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by AB7RG on July 9, 2000
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I've wondered this in the past too. Sometimes with DX, but usually it's stateside during a contest, especially on Field Day. It's really funny when others in the same state hear me and comment on my signal being so strong with great audio! It's like some guys have the RF gain control backed off too much or have the attenuator on and don't know it. The rest call CQ endlessly and never shut up long enough to hear another station trying to contact them.
I always try to listen far more than I call CQ, and you know what? I get far more contacts too. This has netted me quite a bit of DX as well. Setting your AGC to fast helps too. If you don't have it set to fast in CW then you're doing it wrong!
As always, there are very good ops and bad ones. Ignore the ones that can't hear or just keep calling CQ with a one second (max) letup. They'll just waste your time. The best thing one can do is to listen.
73, Clinton AB7RG
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CQING, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN
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by AC5E on July 9, 2000
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I DID NOT FIND THE CATFISH, THE MOUTH ALWAYS OPEN TYPES, A MAJOR PROBLEM DURING FIELD DAY. MY MAIN GRIPE IS THE 160 METER 'TESTS! I AM FROM A FAIRLY RARE STATE, AS EVIDENCED BY THE NUMBER OF DESPERATE QSL REQUESTS I GET AFTER A TEST, AND IT SEEMS 160 SB IS JAMMED WITH 90 OVER 9 STATIONS WHO CANNOT OR WILL NOT TAKE TIME TO LISTEN.
CQING UNTIL YOU ARE OUT OF BREATH, TAKING A GULP OF AIR AND CQING AGAIN IS NOT PRODUCTIVE. IT WASTES PRECIOUS TIME FOR THOSE WORKING SEARCH AND POUNCE, AND IT WASTES SPECTRUM SPACE FOR THOSE WHO WOULD LISTEN IF THEY COULD FIND A SPACE TO CQ. A RELATED GRIPE IS THOSE WHO POUNCE ON A "HOLE" WHILE THE LONG TIME OCCUPANT OF THE FREQUENCY IS LISTENING FOR THE RESULTS OF HIS LAST CQ. I UNDERSTAND THE DESPERATE SEARCH FOR A PLACE TO CQ - BUT JUMPING ON A 10 SECOND BREAK IS REDICULOUS.
A RELATED GRIPE ARE THOSE "CW EXPERTS" WHO CQ AT 50-60 WPM AND WILL NOT ANSWER A REPLY AT ANYTHING LESS. I SUSPECT MOST OF THEM HAVE THEIR COMPUTER SET TO DECODE CW AT WHATEVER FLASH CW SPEED THEY DECIDE TO SHOW OFF AT - AND CANNOT COPY AT 30 TO 35 WPM. THE MOST EFFECTIVE CQ SPEED IS WHATEVER SPEED THE RECIEVING STATION CAN COPY - NOT THE SPEED YOU CAN TYPE.
PETE ALLEN AC5E
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Calling CQ - Do they ever listen?
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by KI8JQ on July 10, 2000
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Maybe the manufacturers are at fault. Maybe they should change it from a PTT (push to talk) button to a RTL (release to listen) button.
73
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by K0SR on July 10, 2000
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A lot of this behavior is a result of "SO2R", or single operator, two radio operation during a contest. If the CQer is chasing a multiplier on another band, he might keep the CQ machine going so he doesn't lose "his" frequency. I didn't think any of us owned a frequency; the notion that you own two frequencies is ridiculous. Or they might come back after 10 minutes and start a fight with anyone one "their" frequency. In the ARRL CW DX contest last spring, I was trying to participate on 15 CW. I found a clear frequency, asked if it was in use, asked again, called CQ, and managed to run 8 or 10 JA stations. Out of the blue a K0 in Colorado shows up on frequency and yells at me for being on "his" frequency. I don't have stacked yagis and 15 KW amplifiers, so I guess I leave. This happened 4 more times over the course of several hours, and then I shut it off. This type of behavior can only be characterized as poor operating. In my opinion SO2R should be outlawed, and the sponsors of major contests spend sometime listening to the bands. Disqualify these people ! Actions that would be considered outrageous Monday to Friday are encouraged, even celebrated, during contest weekends.
SO1R Forever !
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N5NJ on July 11, 2000
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K0SR: Have you ever operated SO2R ?
Have you ever watched someone operate SO2R ?
I believe that the answer to both of these questions is 'no' as your comments reveal a lack of understanding of how SO2R works.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N7DC on July 11, 2000
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Hmmmmm, I too have suffered castigation at the hands of someone coming up after I have been on freq for 15/20 minutes, saying its "their freq" I could only assume one of a couple of things. Either he "really didnt" have the freq and now wants it, he had the freq-went to the bathroom and is just returning(not his anymore), or the props suddenly changed (which I really dont believe most of the time). Common courtesy has gone out the window over much of the world, it would appear. Its the same with men who wear hats in the restaurant, or God forbid, even at a church. (Christian churches guys- not talking Jewish or some others I have no idea about). What about the guy suddenly taking your lane of traffic, same thing- just no courtesy. Maybe mama didnt teach it(if they had one) or maye mama didnt know it either. Boy - by the third generation we are in trouble all over That why we need Elmers (good Elmers) , or we need them to read these computer messages to learn a bit about operations.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on July 11, 2000
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For me, ham radio is fun. When I give up the notion that other hams should operate the way I think they should, I have more fun. When I encounter other hams doing things I don't like, I QSY in search of fun. If a contest is on, and I'm not having fun in it or listening to it, I QSY to another part of the band, or change bands. Plus, I have other hobbies that are fun.
Hope you are having FUN today
Bob
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by K0SR on July 11, 2000
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N5NJ: No, I haven't operated SO2R. I have neither the financial or geographical resources to do this, even if I thought it was an appropriate way to operate. I have read about the technique. The following can be seen on the KA9FOX website (www.coulee.com/ka9fox/two_radio_operating.txt):
"If he does, wait for his exchange to be done, stop the CQ on your run frequency (if it isn't already over) and send him an exchange. As soon as he gets your info, go back to CQing on your run frequency. This technique will have little impact to your run rate. If someone answers the "bogus" CQ you made, experience has shown that they will call again the second time."
Bogus CQ ? If you intentionally transmit with no intention of listening, this is called BROADCASTING, and I didn't think that this was legal. A logical extension of this is to keep CQing without listening until you get the multiplier on the other band, a practice that started this thread in the first place. And ultimately, why bother calling CQ if you know you can win a "frequency fight" anyway ? I don't have to operate SO2R to be able to recognize what I hear.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N5NJ on July 11, 2000
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K0SR:
I'm glad you included the link to N6TR's old 1993 description of SO2R on the KA9FOX site so that it can be read in it's entirety instead of using a "sound bite" that suited your needs.
If you read the entire article, you'd find that he said that this occured only 3 times in a 24 hour contest. He also said that he only made 80 qsos on his second radio. His total was in the area of 1300 qsos. Hardly a band-hogging menace making only 80 qsos spread over 24 hours.
Some feel that he might have worked some of those 80 qsos anyway had he not been able to locate those 80 people while transmitting a CQ on his first radio. No one knows for sure. Either way, it's one operator who has developed his skills well enough to do this.
Please note that at no time did he transmit on both radios at the same time. Transmitting on two frequencies at the same time is clearly against the rules.
Essentially the same thing is possible today with radios with dual receive capability.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N2MG on July 11, 2000
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Often, during a contest, propagation changes will bring a "bad" guy up out of the noise - sometimes quite dramatically and suddenly, who was there all along but previously undetectable. Also, sometimes the "bad" guy has just turned his beam at you, looking for some new ones. There are "legitimate" reasons for this "This is my frequency" nonsense.
This is NOT to say that there aren't aggressive or downright obnoxious operators with few scruples that will just fire up on a weaker station. In general, it's not worth it to get in a huff and it's never good to point fingers at someone without being certain. Even if we all behaved as gentlemen, during a contest, there is never enough room for EVERYONE, so some will always be losing "their" frequency. This is really part of the contest experience, a fact lost on many self-proclaimed contesters.
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by K0SR on July 11, 2000
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N5NJ:
Your point is well taken, and in retrospect it was unfair for me to lift one or two paragraphs out of a much larger article. I was simply trying to establish that I am familiar with the intent of SO2R, and to also describe one possible mechanism where the method could be abused. I know you are an active contester; I've worked you in contests myself. My intention was not to label all SO2R operators as lids, rather I was suggesting that similar to speech processors, amplifiers, or packet, technology can be abused by rude people. I was rather disgusted by the antics of a few operators during the ARRL CW DX contest, but then again I was sharing the spectrum with literally hundreds of contientious operators who weren't causing problems. It would be disrespectful to those operators to characterize all SO2R operations as bad. I apologize if that was the way my posting sounded. I think we both have valid points, OK ?
Steve K0SR
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RE: CQ, DON'T THEY EVER LISTEN!
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by N5NJ on July 11, 2000
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K0SR:
Sounds good to me.
Your reaction to SO2R seems to be shared by many who do not truly understand it. It is very, very difficult to do. I have only dabbled with it and am amazed at how some guys, like N5TJ who just won the 2000 WRTC along with K1TO in Slovenia, have mastered this so that it's part of their normal operating method.
Coordinating two radios, the computer control of them, and all the other stuff a single operator has to do is a great deal of work. The operator has little time to rest when using two radios in this manner. With a single radio, when your computer or voice keyer is transmitting, you're not doing anything productive.
I maintain, and have stated previously that the advent of computer logging and station integration has given the operator enough spare time to begin to develop skills such as what is now known as SO2R. In the old days, when you had to do things like keeping a dupe sheet and tracking your multipliers manually, you were busy during the time that single operators now find themselves doing essentially nothing while their computer sends a CQ, or in the case of Sweepstakes, the computer sends an incredibly long exchange.
I have used more than one radio for years. Using them together as we now define SO2R is an incredible commitment by the operator and deserves respect instead of unwarranted criticism.
See you in SS in November.
73,
Bob N5NJ
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RE: Calling CQ, Don't they ever listen?
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by W5EI on July 12, 2000
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My club has very modest Field Day setup. Hunt and pounce on CW has been where I have had the most luck, and most of the time I am able to get a response from the station calling CQ. If the other op can't or won't hear me, I just move on. Some new hams who work SSB get a little carried away calling CQ, but if someone takes the time to point out to them the value of listening for a reply, they ususally do OK.
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Calling CQ
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by N2MR on July 13, 2000
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Why waste time listening to a station calling CQ endlessly??? You are wasting time in a 24hr contest.... Move on and make some points. The idea in a contest is to make points and DEAL WITH whatever QRM/QRN comes your way!
If you can't take the HEAT... GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!
Some of you guys WHINE way too much, get on the air and have a good time, otherwise use that little button on the radio marked OFF!
Mark N2MR
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Calling CQ-Field Day operating
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by K3YD on July 13, 2000
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My observations on Field Day operation are based on operations with clubs/groups in the 1,3,4,5, and 0 call areas, so I'm not picking on any group in particular.
Most clubs/groups include a few experienced contest ops and a lot of folks with little or no contest experience. Too often I've witnessed a "newbie" relief op dropped into an operating position, with an unfamilar radio and confronted with a memory keyer or computer with contest loging program (often for the first time). The instructions from the experienced op usually are something like, "I've got a great run going, keep it up and DON'T LOOSE THE FREQUENCY!"
In that situation (and maybe being unsure of phonetics or radio controls, listening through QRM, or being a little weak with CW skills) the newbie will keep firing the voice or CW keyer, listening briefly and calling again. If a LOUD station, in the center of the passband, replies, a QSO results. Otherwise its CQ forever! I know; years ago that newbie op was me.
What helps? Well for starters, a meeting program training the club's logging program of choice right before FD. Headphone jack Y's so the newbie can listen in parallel with an experienced op before she's dropped into the "Hot Seat". Learning to do "Hunt and Pounce" opration (tuning and calling) BEFORE trying to "Run" (sitting and calling CQ). Running the "quiet" bands (i.e. 75 meters during the day, 6 when the band isn't open) before trying to run 20 or 40. Oh, most of all, some experiencd Elmers to teach these contest skills, then back off and let the new ops go solo.
The endless CQing isn't malicious, it's just inexperience.
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"CQ A1" DE "A LID"
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Anonymous post on October 15, 2000
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I am a lid. I must finally admit it. I am new to the hobby, of course, but I know that my operating procedures are... are... lid-like. I know that it is not the way to go. I feel shame when turning on the radio. So, I would like to call "CQ A1 OPERATOR" and ask your advice. I have read this string, and have a fairly good idea of what the regs are from the FCC.
Therefore, I ask not whether I should transmit before listening or if I should really ID every 10 minutes, I ask where can I get more information? I ask where can I get practise without exposing my liddyness to others? Finally, I ask where does one turn when one realizes that one is simply not getting it?
I thank you in advance for your help, or beg forgiveness in advance in I have already offended you. So, in the spirit of the soon to be reforming lid, I would like to say "My name is **7**, and I have been a lid for two years..."
73 ES SRY DE "A LID"+APc-
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RE: "CQ A1" DE "A LID"
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by KG4TNP1 on January 23, 2003
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CQ A1
I'm very new to Ham radio. And the way I'm avoiding being a "Lid" is by watching at our last FD I went with none of my radios I helped others hoist antennas and prepare Coax and move stuff around I also watched with both eyes wide open and ears trained. During the day at work when it is slow I listen to the repeater or my 10 Meter. I ask tons of questions to every ham I meet and a few times I've been shunned for not knowing much or laughed at for my cheap equipment ( I'm just a mechanic so I dont make much) but I wont give up. TO ALL VETREAN HAMS you want more in the hobby we are out there but we need guidance. In my area neither the book stores or library carry anything on Ham radio so all my learning is by Internet or Hams. The small stuff kills simple things to you is hard to a newbie who dosent know.
Kev
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