Using Solid State Rigs on AM
(KF6IKC)
on
December 28, 2004
View comments about this article!
Hello to all and thanks for reading. I am looking for info and/or comments from any and all who enjoy modern day AM. In my search for good sounding AM gear, it has always amazed me that with all the new multi thousand dollar rigs out there that very few if any sound good on AM. I currently use a Johnson Valiant, and Yaesu FT-102 for my AM station. I have been looking at the new Icom flagship, but the whole deal for me is if it will "talk" on AM. I have been told that the Yaesu FT-1000MP sounds pretty good on AM. I did hear a FT-990 that sounded very good on AM one time. I am in the middle of downsizing and would love to get a "do-it-all" modern rig. But I am kinda picky on my AM audio. So...if you can let me know of any newer rigs that you have used for AM or have any input about how to make a new rig sound like a AM radio should. Please let me know.
73 Stan
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W1RKW on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Stan, Post this message at http://amfone.net/phpBB2/index.php and I'm sure someone can answer that question for you.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by YEPSURE on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I use my Kenwood TS-2000 for 6-meter AM and it does a great job. Many experienced amateurs who've owned tube rigs state those were the best AM radio's on the air. I've never owned or operated a tube style radio so I don't know, but my TS-2000 as well as an older TS-440S worked great on AM. For AM operation I mainly use the TS-2000 since most of what I do on AM is on 6-meters. But I have tried 2-meter AM in the past and it sounds great there as well.
There are some radio's such as the Yaesu FT-100 that do not sound well on AM without the optional AM filter installed. I used one with the optional filter and I felt it was still lacking in over all AM quality. I'm sure there are other rigs that also fall into this category.
That's been my experience, however limited, but there it is.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by N4OZI on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I’ve had excellent success with the Yaesu FT-757 and my Yaesu MD-1 microphone. I know that’s not a real new rig but it has work real well for me on AM. The trick is to keep the unmodulated carrier on any of the newer rigs to ¼ of their total output power. As you know, once you modulate a carrier to 100% modulation, you use 4 times the power. So with 25 watts carrier, that’s 100 watts peak which for most newer rigs is the max output.
I tell people to adjust their rigs to 25 watts unmodulated carrier and monitor their ALC while turning up their audio gain until the ALC jumps just a little. If you are using an amp with the rig, I suggest using a carrier ¼ of the output power (not input power) and adjust the audio gain until the power meter just jumps a little with your modulation peaks.
Of course, the rig itself may still sound bad on AM once all those adjustments are made. All I can say is that people have told me that my FT-757 sounds excellent. I’ve never tried my FT-847 on AM with the amp, so I’m not too sure how it would sound.
From my experience with AM on the HF bands, you also want a microphone that leans a little toward the higher end of the voice spectrum. I’ve noticed the AM signals that mostly contain lower voice audio frequencies tend to be harder to pull out of the noise than those that are a higher pitch.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.
Allen Cutts
N4OZI
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by AC5UP on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I haven't done this since last year but it's not unusual for the 10 Meter AM'ers to fire up their filaments above 29 MHz on a Sunday afternoon, typically during the winter months.
I've gotten excellent audio reports with an early-production IC-756 and Shure 44 that has a little 2N222 home brew preamp. The Icom likes an electret mic and has +8 VDC phantom power on the hot lead. The preamp does more for impedance matching and isolating the dynamic element from the phantom power than it does for gain and sounds very good on SSB and FM. The '756 also allows for a little EQ and the trick to that is in using it lightly.
On AM I'm told it sounds terrible with the compressor turned on but as good as anything from the 60's with the compressor off. Never had a bad audio complaint until I tried AM and none since I learned to turn off the compression.
I run the power at about 80% or less on both AM and SSB and ~ 25 watts of carrier is more than enough to do business on 10 when the band is open.
- AC5UP
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by N4ZOU on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Modern transceivers do not have true AM mode. They use DSB or double side band to produce a signal that can be received with an AM receiver. To produce true AM and make it sound good you will need to do one of two things. First is to buy an old AM transmitter and restore it to proper operation. This can be costly or not, it's just according to the transmitter you obtain and if the major high cost parts like power supply and modulation transformers are still good. The second option is to build your own E class AM transmitter. These transmitters use modern parts and technology. They work and sound great on AM mode and have enough power output to make contacts easy. Here is a very good site on making your own E class transmitter. http://www.classeradio.com/classe.htm
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WPE9JRL on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The 1000MP is a very good "do it all" on AM. RX bandwidth is 9KHz in the AM sync mode and about 6KHz in non-sync.
The MP makes a very decent and true AM transmit modulation evelope while transmitting about 15-25 watts of carrier output. The transmitted fidelity may be on the order of 4KHz, not bad. The transmitter's ALC does not "fold back" the transmitted peak output evelope while trasmitting....much unlike my 756PRO Icom.
Like many rice-rigs, one must be careful not to "over modulate" the MP in AM as the audio quickly gets distorted. These rigs will not produce more depth or density of modulation beyond a certain critical point.
I have heard several MP's fed with outboard compressor/processors/equalizers that rival the sound of any Johnson Ranger. I think W9AD runs the MP in this fashion, he may have a website for you to visit.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by AC5UP on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One other thot...
Regardless of the rig you choose, if you're interested in best quality on AM it's worth a few minutes to test your DC power supply to see how hard you can push the rig before the voltage regulation goes wobbly. Better to modulate the carrier with audio than with a power supply that's going soft under peak load.
In my case the rig is rated at 23 amps peak and the power supply is an older Lambda 'cinderblock' rated at 19 amps. Bad choice, right? A 19 amp rating on a Lambda is like 25 amps from other manufacturers and I'm running it at 14.0 volts out. I can hang a Fluke 77 across the power leads and go from RX to 120 watts RTTY with no more than .1 volt of sag.
If I wasn't seeing good regulation at peak power I'd play with the output voltage on the power supply to see if a slightly higher or lower setting works better (your rig is safe up to 14.5 ~ 15 volts, check the book). After I found the sweet spot on the power supply I might need to turn down the TX power until the regulation holds within a quarter of a volt or less. Don't worry about getting the last milliwatt out of your setup... Better to have a clean signal than clipping or spurs for the sake of a nanodecibel.
- AC5UP
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K0BG on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Perhaps the respondents to this article should read the previous article by Bob Lewis, AA4PB.
Why AM still holds a fascination in the hearts of today's amateurs is beyond my comprehension. What's worse, the ARRL has written previsions into its bandwidth proposal to allow it while the other voice modes will have to maintain 3kHz or less. If we really want to adapt bandwidth segmenting, then AM must indeed stand for Ancient Modulation.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W6TH on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Normally I use the E. F. Johnson Viking Challenger transmitter with 45 watts output. Also with the D104 microphone.
Also have used the Icom 718 on AM with very good results by tuning set up as described by N4OZI with 40 watts and watching the ALC.
.: W6TH
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA2MO on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
This subject has been addressed quite a bit lately, so here's my 1.5 cents worth. I use primarily for AM either my Viking II or my Viking Valiant. With some simple audio mods these old boat anchors produce nice sounding AM. But if you need to downsize and need a modern piece of gear to work AM then get yourself an ORION. Ten Tec put some emphasis on this mode when building the ORION. Some of the guys that heard my ORION thought I was using a plate modulated rig. I use the boat anchors primarily for AM because I was accused ( jokingly ) of using an American rice box on AM. You just can't win. Just buy an ORION, nuff said.
73
Mark
WA2MO
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by N0NWO on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I am amused at the post suggesting AM should be outlawed. I am not infavor of any mode being outlawed. There is room for us all. Am has a very warm nice sound. Funny that I have had AM capabilities for almost 2 years and not used them yet. Thanks for reminding I have this mode. I gotta give it a try. Last time i used AM was in mt CB days 14 years ago. I had an old johnsin 5 channel tube rig that had such a nice sound.
Minton
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K7PEH on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
OK, I just don't get it, maybe it is my heritage.
I was a novice and CW only back in the mid-1960s. Then, a 38 year break from operating and being licensed. Then, licensed and on the air again today with modern, solid-state, equipment, operating mostly SSB.
But, why do people care about AM. Certainly it sounds more full and natural I suppose but we are not singing here. We are not doing Hi-Fi, are we? SSB is more efficient all the way around (bandwidth, power). AM has, as much as I can tell, one advantage: it is easier to zero-beat the signal.
But, there is one more thing I do not understand. Why do AM'ers talk on and on and on without a break. It is not that they are talking about one subject that needs this disertation but I have heard AM'er go on jumping from one subject to another without a break. The other end of the QSO must be rapidly taking notes just to keep track. Yes, I know that you can get this now and then with anyone (SSB, CW) but it seems to be the right of passage for AM talk to maintain that soliloquey to such heights.
I am not against AM, I just want to understand more about the strange behaviors of those who favor this form of signal generation.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K5UJ on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<<Modern transceivers do not have true AM mode. They use DSB or double side band to produce a signal that can be received with an AM receiver.>>>
Let's see, it produces DSB. It has to have a carrier if it is getting detected and demodulated by the AM receiver. So it has a carrier and two sidebands, but it is not "true AM mode." Hmmm.
I think my high-level-plate-modulation-is-the-real-deal dectector just went off.
No matter; 95% of all the guys running boat anchors with hi-Z mics connected to the front panels sound worse than 95% of CBers.
I can't speak for all modern transceivers, but the TS850 does an excellent job on AM. The problem with transceivers is that they don't produce a lot of power on AM, and since AM is now pretty much a ragchew mode, power is usually needed along with good antennas (we all like armchair copy for ragchews don't we?). This means the transceiver has to drive an amp, and most modern ham amps don't have the cooling and plate dissipation and power supply capacity to handle a carrier and two sidebands.
Even if you spring for an 8K, it's pretty inefficient.
In fact, probably all broadcasters would go to SSB in a heartbeat if the general public owned and knew how to tune SSB receivers. Add me to the list of those who question the point of AM other than the technical challenge of doing it well. It wastes RF, frequency space, causes even more RFI than SSB (psst, when you run AM, your neighbors can understand you on their telephones so watch what you say), sounds awful unless you are on a quiet band or running lots of power, causes heterodynes, is a PITA to do and yes, you guys who like to tape down the mic button and talk for 10 minutes really should rethink your operating practice.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K2ROK on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I use my Ten Tec Argo on AM with only 5 watts and have been able to "hang" with the guys on the upper portion of 40 meters. The Argo sounds great oon AM transmit, and very good on receive since you can widen the filter.
AM is a culture of it's own. I love it because of my commercial radio roots. Even when I worked on FM stations, I always missed AM.
Why do AMers talk so long? I don't know but the QSO is more of a relaxed and leisurely experience.
Wanting to ban AM because of the bandwidth? Gee, how would one feel if they proposed banning SSB and making everyone do PSK31. I think there is room for everyone and AM has a place.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W5AOX on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I hate to disagree with all the experts on board, but:
DSB is NOT a mode that can be received in "AM" mode. It requires a BFO or other injection in the receive mixer to provide the missing carrier. DSB is not what is transmitted when in "AM" mode on modern rigs.
It may be (and usually is) low level AM, meaning the carrier is amplitude modulated at a low level and then amplified to the higher output power in subsequent stages. Ideally, to achieve the highest efficiency in AM mode, the power source to the final amplifier would be "modulated" by an audio source with sufficient power to swing the output RF carrier from zero output to full output. In the old days this was accomplished by feeding the high voltage to the output RF amplifier through a high power audio transformer, with the high level audio driving the primary of the transformer and the B+ going through the secondary. It can be done with solid state amps in the same fashion, except it is 12VDC which is fed through the audio transformer secondary into the final RF transistor collector(s).
AM CB rigs are normally modulated in this fashion, but since ham rigs are primarily designed for SSB operation, many do not have the "modulation transformer" and instead modulate the audio into a lower level RF stage, often at the balanced modulator.
"How good the audio sounds" is not determined by which method AM is achieved; as others have mentioned it is a function of maintaining linearity and balance in the audio source (microphone) and audio amplifier/modulator circuits.
I rarely use AM, but enjoy it when I do (usually on long trips when 10 or 6 happens to be open) because it is wider bandwidth, a bit more pleasant and "natural sounding", and it evokes days of yore when AM was what you heard when listening on radios in the 1950's and 1960's.
I DON'T miss the days when 80 and 40 were a mass of squeals and heterodynes, with 2 or 3 "Kings of the Road" fading in and out over the bedlam of lesser folk.
I remember 80 meters in 1963 sounding very much like CB Channel 19 today on a good "skip day". It would STILL sound this way if AM ever really regained popularity again by more than a few users.
SSB was developed for a REASON, folks: Increased range, less noise, and LOTS more space in the bands for "other users". Yes, we lost high-fidelity sound when we went to SSB (until recently, now that "enhanced audio" makes SSB stations almost as wide as AM stations), but in my mind it was well worth it to accommodate more users and allow DX voice contacts to become commonplace for modest stations.
I suppose if we continue losing ham population, there will be plenty of room on ANY band for AM.
Right now, there is plenty of wide open space on 10 and 6 meters for it. Check 29.000 to 29.1 next time 10 is open, or ye olde 50.4 6 meter AM ....
Jim
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W8RCA on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I have been a plate modulation snob as well as a guy who now does AM with the best of todays gear. What I really enjoy is when one of the AM guys I used to talk with a lot a while ago runs across me on the air and comments on how good ("insert one of the MANY boat anchors I have now sold here") sounds. I just say thank you and continue to talk to them on my IC-756 ProII running 25 watts of carrier into my AL-80B amp with about 200 watts output. They never know the difference, and my back has thanked me over and over again for getting rid of the pound per watt rigs that used to fill up my shack and blow up on a REGULAR basis. I would much rather visit with my radio friends on the air, than figure out how to fix an antique transmitter that has crapped out again. Todays equipment is much more fun if you enjoy using it rather than fixing it. It's a hobby enjoy it in a way that makes you the happiest....Regards, Greg W8RCA
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KE4ZHN on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Although I rarely operate AM, I have used my TS 450SAT with great results. The trick is, as others have mentioned, is to keep the carrier level low enough so that the rig will have enough headroom for the sidebands. Kenwood rates this radio at 40 watts max (per the manual) carrier on AM, but it sounds much better set at around 20-25 watts of carrier driving the amplifier on its low tap (if equipped) to keep the amp happy. If you use a typical RMS wattmeter, you should barely see the needle wiggle on voice peaks if at all.
A scope of course is the best method for seeing your AM signal, but not everyone has one. If you see the wattmeter swinging alot, your probably running too much mike gain. Unless you happen to own a pep meter like a Bird 43P. Even still, be wary of having the wattmeter doing the St. Vidas dance as you may be so loud and obnoxious you sound like you belong on channel 19! Not to mention having a signal as wide as a barn door. The key to making any of the modern SS rigs sound good on AM is to be kind of stingy with the mike gain, yet not so much that your barely heard. The ALC should barely flicker if at all also. The newer Japanese rigs sound horrible on AM when you over do the mike gain and will distort severely if overdriven. The old plate modulated tube rigs are much more forgiving of excessive mike gain, although its not very good operating practice to run so much mike gain the fellow on the other end hears the crickets chirping in your back yard. I have heard the new radios sound as good or better then old high level plate modulated tube rigs IF properly set up.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KC2IFR on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
AM stands for "angel music". Ham radio is for all modes and interests. To critsize someone because u dont like it is just plain stupid.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WL7CMG on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
When the solar cycle was high, I decided to venture into the 29meg "vintage" AM area myself. I loved what I was hearing and wanted to be a part of it. I mustered up all my courage and finally called "CQ". Much to my pleasure I was received with open arms. Yes...even when they found out I was running my little Japaneese rice box. In fact, there were more than a couple guys that could not believe I was running an "old" TS-570D with the stock MC-60. "NO WAY...!!!" is what I was told. But I assured them it was indeed that rig they were hearing. Even though many of the vintage gear ops were amazed, they still had no problem talking with me on the Apha Mary side of 29meg. It was great!!! In fact they were glad to "HEAR" that Kenwood had obviously done some great work on their AM circuitry.
Since then I have upgraded to a TS-870S using a Goldline "Pro" and Julius's W2IHY 8 band EQ. Now the "broadcast quality" AM reports are the norm. Good ol' Kenwood audio....ya gotta love it!!! hi.
As for why people still use AM..??? I have to believe it's mainly just for that nostalgic "magical sound" that can be so pleasing to the ears. Almost like listening to the "warmth" of an old record I guess. I, for one, think it's just fine that some still like it in this high tech digital world we live in.
73s & Happy New Year....
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KB9YGD on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Hi Stan.Nice Article & One That Need`s To Be Addresed.I Have A Yaesue FT-847 & It`s no Good For AM.I Looked Around & Bought Me A New IC-756 Pro 2 & It Sounds As Good Or Better Than Anything Out There Including The Old Rigs.I run About 15 To 20 Watts Drive(resting carrier) From The 756 Into My AL-80B Through My MFJ-989C And This Combo Gives Me A Big(about 550 pep) Good Sounding Signal Which Bounces S Meters Like Crazy & Nothing Gets Hot Or Overworked.See Ya On AM And 73,Norm. http://www.qsl.net/kb9ygd/index.html
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W8JJI on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have had good results with the Icom 746pro And Great results with the Icom I-C775dsp( I have recieved many comments about the "loud" TX-AM audio on the 775).
The icom rigs series 746 756 775 and probably others have a jack on the back that will allow the operator to use it as an audio input. This jack bypasses parts of the audio circuit that the normal front mic plug uses.
This connection in the back of the Icom rigs is quite popular with those using icom on AM. It allows for a wider frequency response than the front mic plug.
I have heard a few of these Icoms run this way on AM and man, they sound nice!
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KA4KOE on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I use an ICOM IC-756PRO with a Heil Classic. Great audio reports and the ICOM works best when set at about 25 watts. Gotta be careful about how you set it up or it will sound awful....overdriving is not recommended.
ITs fun to do occasionally.
PHILIP
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KF6IKC on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello to all. And thanks for the input. Though it never fails to make me shake my head in wounder at those that give neg. input on things they obviously know nothing about. Ham radio is HOBBY for all of us and each has his/her own preference on mode,band,pwr levels,etc. Me I like AM. Just like some people restore old cars....why??? Heck a new rice car will get 60mpg and is quiet,and has cruse and A/C. My old 69 Firebird has a 650hp 455,no C/C,pwr windows or locks,uses R12 in the A/C,only gets 6-8mpg. But it is a blast to drive!! I did CW to get my lic. and that was it. Can't for the life of me figure why someone would sit with a pair of headphones on trying to pull a signal out of the noise vs a "armchair copy" of pure HI-FI AM.....but see...that is the cool thing about this hobby. To each there own. So please limit the flames to a low glow and not a bonfire.
With that said I am glad to hear that some of us still like AM and have played with the new rigs on that mode. Like I said in my original post,I am being basically forced to consolidate and down size. I am not happily giving up my Valiant,and other "heavy metal" rigs. But such are the turns in life. So....I think I will be looking at the Icom IC-7800 hoping it will fill the bill as my new "do-it-all" rig. I just hope that for $10k + it "works" on AM. No doubt it will make some kind of noise,but I am hoping I can get it to have that big,full,heavy, AM sound I love to hear from plate modulated rigs. Or at least close to it.
So thanks again to all and keep the "old" AM mode alive. It is where we all came from.
Happy New year to ALL!!! 73 Stan
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I like some am not really certain where or why there is a fascination with "AM". If however, 'that is your bag' I would say stay with that Valient!
Nothing will beat the dynamic range/over power as will a vacuum tube, and nothing will operate more linearly!
I think that many Ham's should have the experience of hearing a good clean and 100% modulated "AM" signal. Listen to a Net, so that you can hear the signal difference, as some stations will be in the noise.
Then after you have tuned around, heard the good and bad,.... go back to SSB, and build your station to provide good linear modulation with a proper modulation index.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KD4E on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You want a Drake TR7. If it is working properly even the hard core AMers will have trouble detecting that it is not a plate modulated AM rig -- it is that good on AM.
The way that I know this is that we had one at the Club station and I checked in with a group of AM guys on 75M who had just been boasting about their audio and how the "rice boxes" all sounded awful ... they had to confess that the TR7 fooled them big time!
Have fun ... 74, doc kd4e
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Doc, I suspect the reason for that may be (like the line from Michael Mann's movie "Heat", (to the question "what's their M.O.) -- "because they are good!"
The guys at Drake understand 'linear', even in old Bi-polar transistors!
What is the audio chain, and ALC for the TR-7? I never owned any of their rigs newer than the T4 series but, I'm bet'n they use Op-amps, with a controlled feed-back loop for ALC
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W8ER on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I am really tickled with all of this talk about efficiency! Let me ask you, is efficiency the real question here or are many of you trying to find a reason to knock AM?
No AM is not the most efficient mode available to hams. Neither is SSB. Why not use CW if efficiency is really your concern? It's much more effective and the bandwidth savings is phenominal! So to all of you who are asking about efficiency .. why are you using SSB?
Actually since efficiency has come up, what kind of vehicle do you and your wife drive? Do you ever take long hot showers? What about air conditioning, you know sweating is much more efficient! Do you only have sex when you partner is ovulating? Let's get down to talking about efficiency!
Or shall we admit to excesses, like sitting back with a nice cup of coffee, talking to your buddies with your choice of mode. AM sounds darn nice by the way! There are some guys who don't sound as good as others but heavens, ever heard a SSB guy with a Heil HC4 YUK! By the way, I have heard some real nice hi-fi SSB and those guys are sounding decent!
So hey, you efficiency experts .. go right ahead. Dust off your keys and flip them microphones in the can. As for me, I like a microphone attached to my rig and I'll use AM, SSB, and maybe even FM once in a while.
--Larry W8ER
Radio Amateur since 1958 and lovin it!
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on December 29, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Larry, I hope you were not offended by my comments!
I do think that good "AM" sounds cool! I also like FM. It often uses even more bandwidth! Stll, a good FM(actually Phase Modulated Motorola radio is something I have a hard-on for)!
I will try your plan on efficiency though. My lady does not ovulate (thank god) but, I will ask her about us holding off until we are kind of sweaty and funky. We will see how it works out?
I kind'a think though that would be like an overmodulated signal on "AM", or what many guys try to do with Heil Mic's on SSB, basically F'ed up!
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W8ER on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Naw, no offense taken. I guess with all of this talk about efficiency, I just wanted to point out not all things are enjoyed as much when efficiency becomes the only factor and that many of the hams that holler about efficiency could go a lot further toward it by going to CW, "IF" they are really concerned!
By the way, I have heard several absolutely wonderful sounding solid state rigs on AM! The Kenwood TS850 is superb and also the American made TenTec Jupiter has made a nice showing, rivaling many old boatanchor AM rigs. The Yaesu FT1000 Mark V also is top notch.
--Larry
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by YEPSURE on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AM is definitely NOT the most efficient mode of operation. But like everything else it's simply another mode to choose from. I don't think it's really a matter of people wanting to use the most efficient mode on the radio. It's just about what interests each of us in general. Heck, gasoline engines aren't the most efficent way to get around, but not everyone wants to use their bicycle to get around for obvious reasons! Radio modes are kind of the same way. Although AM isn't the most efficient way to communicate it is a fun way to talk to other people if you happen to like that mode. I don't use it often but do like to use it just for something different. I use all modes at given times just for the variety. Effective AM operating must be done just right. Otherwise you'll sound terrible. That's one aspect of it that I like, which is the ability to properly use AM for the best sound for that mode.
Thats what makes this hobby so great. You can operate whichever mode tickles your fancy!
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W4PA on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>Modern transceivers do not have true AM mode. They use DSB or double side band to produce a signal that can be received with an AM receiver.<<
I can't speak for the Japanese rigs, but Ten-Tec HF transceivers are true DSB with carrier AM operation. Pegasus, Jupiter, Argonaut V, Orion.
Scott Robbins, W4PA
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K2ROK on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Like I said above, but it was lost in all the traffic here -- my Ten Tec Argo V is a pleasure to use on AM. I have been able to work plenty of stations in the AM "hang out place" on the top end of 40 meters. All my reports have been fine in terms of audio quality and most stations, which are running hundreds of watts with vintage gear, are quite amazed I am using 5 watts and a dipole. Try AM!!
Thanks Scott for making such a great rig!
AMer at heart,
Bill
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Pretty much any new rig can do low level modulated AM.
25-40W seems to be the max for a 100W rig.
The Ts-850 will do 6khz wide dsb,with carrier.
However you will be not very popular. ook what happened to the 14.178 crew.
The TR-7 has excellent am. However a few tricks are done. They use a single sideband and then add carrier.
On the Rx side one must use the 4 0r 8khz 2nd If filter.
The real thing is high level plate modulation.
However you need an audio amp that has almost as much audio power as your desired rf power.
Funny how the real plate mod. guys sound under modulated!!!!!
There is also driver modulation that can sound as good as plate mod.
am is very inefficiant.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Both Drake and Tentec know how to design a radio!
A 100 Watt solid state radio, running 25 Watts of carrier, with adequate high level (perhaps negative feedback audio) should sound very good.
The older tube rigs will, for the sake of "AM", give you better bang for the buck though!
You can then use that Heil microphone to good advantage, rather than trying to sound like a Broadcast Station -- with a (hopefully) 3 KHz wide SSB signal.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Both Drake and Tentec know how to design a radio!
A 100 Watt solid state radio, running 25 Watts of carrier, with adequate high level (perhaps negative feedback audio) should sound very good.
The older tube rigs will, for the sake of "AM", give you better bang for the buck though!
You can then use that Heil microphone to good advantage, rather than trying to sound like a Broadcast Station -- with a (hopefully) 3 KHz wide SSB signal.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WB9ECK on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
In order to receive a good quality AM signal you need a good quality AM receiver. This means the audio output stage must have a THD of 5% or less. Most radios have the specifications in the owners manual. AM is not a mode that you listen to on a two and a half inch diameter speaker. Hooking up a large speaker to a receiver that has 10% THD (most transceivers, look in your owners manual) won't help. If you have not had the experience of listening to a quality AM signal on a quality AM radio you are missing out. There is a gigantic difference between a quality AM receiver and a receiver that gets AM. Most of us long timers started out listening to floor model console radios from the 40's and 50's that sounded like juke boxes. It wasn't until they started to make what they called the "kitchen radio" transformerless and plastic in the 60's that AM receivers began to lose their integrity.
The pleasures of operating AM are too numerous to mention.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WR8D on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ref K7PEH: Its called old buzzard transmissions when they stay keyed for ever. Also in a round table with several am stations around the country on freq you do have to take notes. As for solid state rigs on am my ten tec jupiter sounds as good as any of my collins rigs. I have even told a little lie once or twice and said i was on one of the collins rigs when i was really on the jupiter just to see what kind of a reaction i would get. ouch! collins guys i know that one had to hurt. hi hi.
Happy New Year!
WR8D
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W1CAL on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Another 2 cents from another corner of the world...
I started and ran the "Old Buzzards 6 Meter AM Net" about 10 years ago in Southern New Hampshire. Most of us were running tube gear, anything from Johnson Rangers to Gonsets to Cleggs. I will state, as will others, tube gear Rocks on AM! Now that said I'll tell a little story of my "plastic radio".
As net control of the Old Buzzards Net, I ran a Gonset G-50 (my personal favorite) and would sometimes switch over to a Clegg Zeus/Interceptor combo.
I wanted to try 6m ssb so I had been looking for a decent 6 meter all mode transceiver when I discovered the Yaesu FT-650 at the local toy store. It was quite expensive for a radio that gave you 6, 10 & 12 meters, about $1700.00 new. I saved my money and did some real top rate sweet talking to the wife and proceded to make the purchase.
Now I wanted to use an Icom SM-8 mic with the FT-650 but the chuckleheads at the toy store told me it could not be done. Never tell me that! Granted the SM-8 draws 8v from Icom rigs and the Yaesu only had 5v available at the mic connector, but I had to try. I rewired the mic connector on the spare cord to the FT-650 and discovered that 5v was more than enough to power the SM-8. I was off on 6m ssb and having a blast!
Well, as soon as the guys on the net heard I had purchased a "plastic radio" I took massive amounts of ribbing. I didn't care, I was now active on 6m ssb with a rock solid rig that sounded great.
Late one evening I was chatting with my friend Steve on 6 AM and we decided to see how the FT-650 sounded on AM. I switched over to the FT-650 and started making adjustments based on Steve's critique of my audio. After about 25 or 30 minutes he told me the 650 was sounding outstanding on 6m AM. I had turned the carrier down to appx 20 watts so it would have some headroom and adjusted the audio to avoid over modulating the rig. Since Steve & I were only a few miles apart, I was confident it would not sound over driven to any of the other guys. So I wrote down the control settings for AM operation and I waited until Saturday night.
8pm rolled around and I proceeded to call up the net using the FT-650. The usuals all checked in and as the roundtable was in progress one of my buddies, the one that tagged the 650 as a plastic radio, mentioned that the G-50 was sounding particularly excellent this evening. When he gave the freq back to me I told him I was on the FT-650 and it took some convincing to get him to believe I was on my plastic radio.
I no longer have the Gonset G-50 but I do still have the FT-650! It's been one of my favorite radios and I will never let it go. Years later when I was on 6m AM with a morning group in So NH, I heard one of the guys telling another that my FT-650 was the nicest sounding radio he has ever heard on 6m AM.
Now I know this is the exception to the rule as most solid state rigs are marginally acceptable on AM and Just not capable of that Broadcast Quality Audio.
Solid state rigs have improved over the past 10 to 15 years with regard to AM. My personal observation is that Kenwoods had the least desirable audio on AM. Icoms were in the middle with Yaesu having the best AM audio, but over the last 10 years Kenwood & Icom have improved significantly. Also note that not all Yaesu's have great audio.
My point is if you experiment enough you may find that rare combination of Microphone & Solid State Rig that sound outstanding. But don't hold your breath! I consider my SM-8 & FT-650 combination to be a fluke.
As others have already stated, if you want Broadcast Quality Audio, and who wouldn't, you need a good tube transmitter. It also does help if the guy on the receiving end has a good receiver.
SSB is fun but AM Rocks!
73 all - W1CAL
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I found my old TEN TE PEGUSUS to produce the best sounding AM. However thats with the tx in the 3.9k
position.
YES, it can do true DSB with enough carrier in it to make it sound great on any radio in the AM mode.
Bear in mind you will drive your SSB brothers nuts.
On my TR-7/R-7a it sounds like a thud noise.
If your real seriose, build a 500W CW rig.
Then buy a 500watt mono amp. I like Mcintoshes or a marshal guitar amp.
JUST KIDDING. I REALLY DO NOT KNOW IF A MARSHALL GUITAR AMPS OUTPUT TRANSFORMER CAN HANDLE WHATS ON THE PLATE OF A 500w CW TX! The transformer also acts as an rf choke.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WB5OAU on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Ancient Modulation" eh?
I see that Scrooge still lives!
Some people forget that ham radio is not a business, it's a hobby. Just because something is not leading edge technology doesn't mean it's any less valid a mode, than the latest digital QRM generator.
AM's a blast, if you're not on yet, then give it a try (Scrooges notwithstanding!)
73
John K5MO
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KN4LF on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yaesu FT-1000MP Mark V/Field.
73,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Plant City, FL, USA
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on December 30, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
i am starting to think that IF-DSP only sole purpose
was to get good sounding AM in a 3khz ssb IF BANDWIDTH!
I will take a 4 pole xtal filter after the first mixer/upconverter. I will then stick with a choice
of 2.3k and 1.8 for SSB. 8 AND 4KHZ for AM RX.
and 8-16 pole 2.3khz filter for my second IF. A NICE VARABLE 250HZ-600HZ FOR CW
Make DSP AN OPTION FOR EITHER AUDIO OR 2ND IF rx audio! Tx 1.8,2.3 or on uncrowded BANDS 12KHZ AM PROCESSED WITH 4x oversampling!
CASE CLOSED!
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KE4IOK on December 31, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
To W8ER:
I couldn't have said it better. It's a hobby, and we should enjoy it as we see fit. When I was a student pilot, the "old sages" said "fly a tail-dragger and do spins!" Today, You can't find a tail-dragger and most planes are not certificated for spins. I did neither, and I made it. I'll be looking for all you guys on the AM modes.
Jim
KE4IOK
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K1DA on December 31, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Yes you can use a 1000mp on am, and you can also haul chicken .... in a new Benz, but though they will do it there are better uses for both.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K1DA on December 31, 2004
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The output stages of both audio amps are high in and low
(speaker) out. A modulation transformer matches the high impedence of modulator tubes to the high impedence of the RF output tube. You can do it
by changing the output transformer of the audio amp or putting another transformer back to back with the one in the audio amp. Not a great idea but it works.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by NJ6F on January 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I use a FT-100D Yeasu at 25-30 watts drive for AM and love it because the menu's allow me to adjust the audio gain for exactly 17, and the DSP on transmit to #3 and power output to 25 watts as I am transmitting. 3 seems to be a smooth mid range DSP setting for the standard mic. Yes, the internal menu's are the greatest... I do not know why most ham manufacturers still have this thing about hanging a bunch of non-accurate dust collecting qualitative knobs insead of going to space saving precise menu's. I guess the more knobs the better the rig or the more complicated the rig will look....go figure...
Use a dynamic mic for better... broader audio than the electric condensors...such as the Turner Super Sidekick or a Shure 526T both which have a audio peak right where it is needed. The flat mic's like the MD-1 Yeasu are great only..... if you have one of those W2IY boxes which like to see flat mic's on input then modify them with reverb etc which I have not done yet.
A side comment... I have heard on my 2.4KhzBW rig the receive output of a 2.9 SSB with the new W2 box and a touch of reverb..... I was really impressed even though my rig was limited I could hear some of the rich difference on the SSB side. By the way there is some AM on 29.0 - 29.1 Mhz when they are on, during weekends etc.
For proper linearity, yes, you need to keep output at 25-30 watts. I can listen to myself on my other FT100 and as you increase power to 20-22-25 watts you will hear you audio go up and optomize at 25, then start to drop off so don't push it.... 25 watts is it, no less, no more for the solid state rigs.
What you need to do is look for an HF amp that has no tuned front end and is a Ceramic type tube with a (((low power drive requirement))) such as a Dentron MLA-2500 that has 2-8875's that only need 20 -40 watts for full output of 1500 watts plus. Yes I said Dentron because you can modify the tubes to those 3CX-800's etc if you need to. ....do a google search. I have had my 8875 for 25 years now and used them a lot. Dont go backup crazy... if the tubes go it is probably because you screwed them up by not cooling them adaquately anyway and can easily replace with a slight socket modification the others out there...3CX-800 or more.
The amp is nice because it already has a hypercil..transformer and about 2400 Volts when 220 is connected.
I like telling the AMers I have a new boat anchor to test and let them rave about your audio before you tell them it is one of the most versitile, small, lightweight solid states rigs on the market with a good sized Blue LCD display not those flourscent tube deals that they are starting to use. Also I use a MFJ switcher, the MFJ-4125 which is great, no RF hash as they say... at 5lbs and 25 amps its great, and I use it with a 400 watt inverter when portable along with the 5 lb MFJ supply for 13.8 volts for FT100.
The AMers will not have a clue your using a FT-100 or 100D, I have both. Do not screw around with those high drive 60-100 watt input amps.... I stay away from those boat anchors with Chinese sweep tubes...
Check out the Emtron for a new one, or again the Dentron MLA2500 because of its sleek low profile and tube replaceability. Yes the supply is alreay in the same box, no need for bulky external supples.
Also for the many fans in the shack these days try a noise cancelling headset to enjoy your AM even more.
I use the Philips SBC-HN100 which fold for tight storage. Radio Shack and Frys sells different cost effective types and you don't need expensive Bose to do the job either. These cost in the $65-75 range and are worth it, especially when the wife is going why why whyiiiife in your ear while you are trying to enjoy the AM experience, even while outside on the patio when the neighbor is running his lawn mower :-)
The bottom line is that you do not need a 500lb boat anchor to run AM these days.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K4JF on January 2, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Ancient Modulation" eh?
I see that Scrooge still lives!
Some people forget that ham radio is not a business, it's a hobby. Just because something is not leading edge technology doesn't mean it's any less valid a mode, than the latest digital QRM generator.
AM's a blast, if you're not on yet, then give it a try (Scrooges notwithstanding!)
73 John K5MO"
Excellent points, John!! Same comments apply to the VHF guys who demand that repeaters be changed so that I have to junk my 5-10 year old radios!! One of the great things (and one of the drawbacks) of this hobby is the w-i-d-e variety of stuff one can do with it. And there is, and always should be, room for all of us. I'm constantly amazed by those with the attitude that "If I'm not interested in it, then nobody should be allowed to do it"!!
I don't do AM, but I will occasionally drop by to listen, and I would NEVER say they shouldn't be there.
VY 73 de K4JF
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA1RNE on January 2, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You can certainly find a modern rig w/ decent AM performance built in, but that depends on what your definition of "good" is.
Boatanchor transmitters weren't designed to be back-breakers for nothing. (many like the Johnson Ranger II are not that bad) Besides having excellent audio performance by virtue of high level plate modulation, most had carrier outputs that ranged between 100-130 watts. On peaks, that translated to 400-520 watts in the sidebands.
Unfortunately, 25-30 watts of DSB AM isn't going to get through high QRM conditions nearly as well as a 100 watt class "Boatanchor". Some like the Johnson 500 provided 500 watts input or approx. 250 watts of carrier output with a desktop tranmitter and a seperate power supply that mounted on the floor.
The phrase "arm chair copy" was coined for a reason; a received signal that was significantly above the noise/QRM that essentially blanketed the shack with smooth audio with distinct lows and mellow highs.
If you really want to experience AM like during the "ham radio days of old" and can manage to fit one of these rigs into your shack, it will be worth it. It's also a lot of fun to restore and modify these rigs as their technology is obviously simpler and is not contained within a handful of chips.
If you want to try something new, lighter weight and solid state, there is another way; Class E amplifiers and modulators. Check out www.classeradio.com
I started out with a couple different CW/AM rigs when AM was more popular but was on a steady decline with SSB taking over. But there were PLENTY of guys still running 1KW input plate modulated rigs and they were unbelieveable to listen to. Before I was licensed, these were the stations I was able to hear easily with a regenerative receiver and were the ones I wanted to emulate some day.
This was a great era in ham radio and I hope others go the extra mile to experience what is was like.
73, Chris
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K4KWH on January 2, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Having read this thread, I am surprised I haven't heard the Icom 706 series mentioned. By reducing the carrier as described previously, I have had good reports with my 706's. Yes, I remember the days of scuffling with a BC610 to get it into the house while the owner's XYL threatened bodily harm to the entire group of us who were helping. And I am familiar with the warm, pleasing sound of AM done with Johnson Vikings, and Multi Elmacs. But I DON'T miss struggling with the "old buzzard" radios that weigh a ton, and lifting transmitter sections (Power supply, PA section, ect) upstairs while the wife strongly objected to its presence!! I don't miss installing dynamotors, finger-thick cables, and transmitters in the trunk of a '61 Chevrolet. Of course, I wax nostalgic over days of olde--but I was a young buck, and grabbing up a Hammarlund SP600 and walking to the house didn't bother me. Now I am 50+ and not so keen to scuffle with gigantic. Volkwagen-sized radios anymore. While many of my colleagues hang stubbornly onto the old ways, I WELCOME the chance to do AM--and, yes, I LIKE AM; I'm just not willing to squeeze all the jelly out of my spinal discs to have AM, that's all. Friends of mine, clinging to the days of their youth desperately, dutifully haul pickup loads of Hallicrafters, Hammerlund receivers, and various Vikings, Valiants, parts and coils to hamfests and come home wondering why no one bought all those wonderful goodies. I try to tell them that, hey, that day is long past and will never come again, but they absolutely wouldn't DREAM of using a "rice box"!
No matter that I can take a little radio the size of
a large Bible and do EVERYTHING with it--including AM--from DC to Daylight! They wouldn't touch that 706 or
FT857 with a ten foot pole!!!! It might not sound as good as a Viking, but it it saves my aching back, it's good enough for me!
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WA2JJH on January 3, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
We all thought AM was an outdated mode. Even The kenwood ts-520 and 820 did not even have AM MODE.
However back in the late 70's, 10M became ultra hot.
I modifed a few CB RIGS FOR 10M AM. Worked mucho DX.
(THIS WAS LEGAL).
AM allows one to build simpler voice rigs from parts.
Funny about the double standard. CW should be dead, but long live AM?
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by WB5OAU on January 3, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>Now I am 50+
Me too!
> Friends of mine, clinging to the days of their youth >desperately, dutifully haul pickup loads of >Hallicrafters, Hammerlund receivers, and various >Vikings, Valiants, parts and coils to hamfests and come >home wondering why no one bought all those wonderful >goodies.
They're going to the wrong hamfests. :-) Priced reasonably, that kind of gear sells very quickly around here!
>I try to tell them that, hey, that day is long past and >will never come again,
Ah, but the beautiful thing is, it CAN come again! Just step into my shack...there's nothing like a stationfull of glowing tubes on a winter day.
(And for the summer, there's the computer controlled K2) :-)
John K5MO
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K4KWH on January 3, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ah, but the beautiful thing is, it CAN come again! Just step into my shack...there's nothing like a stationfull of glowing tubes on a winter day >Q<
So long as I don't have to LIFT any of it! LOL!
Seriously, I do LIKE AM and perfectly happy to sit down in the shack and run AM. But I do NOT want to have to lug those old radios around anymore. I'm not as young as I used to be and it just isn't FUN--not when I can take a little 706, properly adjust it, and talk AM like a champ. And if that doesn't work, I can
turn on my AL811, run the rig at minimum power and, you won't tell the difference in it and one of those old radios from the 50s. A friend of mine used to have
a KW-1 and I ran AM and CW on it at his house. But, fer me? Taking transmitter sections for a T-368 up a flight of stairs? Not me! ;)
73
K4KWH
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K7AVX on January 3, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The IC-781 does very well on AM. Nornally it puts out 75 Watts AM with 150 watt peaks. It`s audio driveALC is adjusted as you would SSB. If you use an Amp. Get inside the radio and lower the AM power level to 30 watts idle, with front panel power control full clock wise. For normal operation with an Amp, Adj. ALC with power at full clockwise . Back down the power level to about 10 watts. With my Alpha 89, idle power is at 200 watts with 8- 10 watts drive. My peak voice power level follows the 4-1 idle vs. peak power level principal ( peak power is 800+). The reason for lowering the power control inside the radio is to provide good power swing at lower power levels. Good luck and Have fun. Craig K7AVX
k
w
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by NL7W on January 3, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello,
Remembering the peak power for an 100 percent modulated AM is 4 times the unmodulated carrier, I have run my TS-850S at 20 to 25 watts (RF carrier output) with great success. With this rig, just remember to keep the RF POWER (PWR) control fully clockwise, then use the CARRIER (CAR) to adjust your carrier for anything below 25 watts. The MIC GAIN should be adjusted to a similar SSB level for a given microphone, or to where the ALC metering circuit just begins to show deflection. For optimum clarity, adjust the mic gain just below where the ALC deflection was noted.
That's it! This rig is GREAT on AM -- just keep the CARRIER level under 25 watts.
73.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K4JF on January 4, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<We all thought AM was an outdated mode. Even The kenwood ts-520 and 820 did not even have AM MODE. >
But my (much newer) TS-870 DOES have AM.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by UT7UX on January 5, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
TS-2000 gives very good results on AM. IC-706 will not satisfy you.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by K4KWH on January 5, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Um, not to get into any argument at all, but a 706 WILL give quite satisfactory results on AM! I do it on a regular basis, and I own two 706 MKIIG's.
73
K4KWH
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KB5PQL on January 6, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I used to use a Uniden HR-2600 on 10Meter AM back in the early '90s and it was a blast! Use what you have! Cause it's already paid for ;)
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W1BAK on January 7, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
My IC-746 sounds as good on 6m AM as it does on SSB..which is awesome. I haven't worked anyone on 2m AM yet, but then again, I've only had this rig 2 weeks.
73, Gordon W1BAK
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W6IML on January 7, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
No matter how you slice it, there is no solid state rig that can sound as good as a plate modulated, tube transmitter. You can come close, like with a Yaesu FT-101'E' series transceiver, but if you want high fidelity AM, get a boat anchor like a Collins 32V3, or a Heathkit DX-100, or a Johnson Viking.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KD2E on January 9, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A lot of rigs work on AM. Some sound OK, some are better than others.
But you will not find one that sounds as 'good' as an old plate modulated boat anchor..properly set up. It's that simple!!
|
| |
|
Update...VERY disaponted in SS rig
|
|
|
by KF6IKC on January 9, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Very disappointing AM results from new rig. Just purchased a new FT-1000MP MKV as a replacement for some of my vintage AM equipment (Johnson Valiant,Ranger and FT-102). All I can say is that it amazes me that a multi thousand dollar radio with todays technologies can sound so much like crap. After many opinions and lots of replies I have come to the conclusion that most people that put in there two cents worth have never ran or heard quality AM before. And yes....before the flames start and the discussion on efficiency starts....AM is my mode of choice. Just like most people are SSB or CW buffs. It is what I enjoy. There is NO substitution for hi level plate modulation IMHO. To all who said the can fool there AM buddies with their rice rigs....well I would love to hear your station. I played for hours with the MKV. Fed it with outboard EQ's,etc (for those who want to know I was using a AKG 414 mic into a Ultagraph Pro 31 band EQ and a ProSonus pre amp) and it would not even come close to sounding like a "real" AM radio. When ever I would try and get close to 100% modulation it would cut itself back and distort. On the scope about all it would do is maybe 85-90% mod. And had no "punch" to it. With my Valiant which has some basic audio mods for better freq. response and uses a neg. peak limiter. I can easily run 105 + % modulation with little or no distortion and lots of full,rich,punchy,audio. That is the dead give away with solid state rigs....reverse modulation. The FT-102 will also yeild GREAT results on AM. And will do over 100% positive modulation with no splatter or distortion.
So.....again I will thank everyone who responded to my original post....but I am taking full advantage of HRO's 10 return policy and returning the MKV.
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by NC0B on January 9, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I am very disapointed in my Icoms on AM. My two 781s have virtually no upward modulation, only downward.
My two 706MkIIGs have reasonably good upward modulation, but have a terrible output spike about 100 mSec after keying the mic. If I set the 706 for an output level of about 5, this gives about 250 to 300 watts of carrier output from the Alpha 89 or 99, and the modulation is clean. Key the PTT, and the Alpha goes over 1500 watts out on the spike. It is a triangular ramp up and ramp down when viewed on a scope.
Serious overshoot problems are nothing new for Icom, but this carrier spike on AM is totally unacceptable. Seems like a good way to blow something in the linear.
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KF6IKC on January 9, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Yes....that is another problem with newer rigs....TX overshoot. The FT-102 has this problem in stock form. There is a very simple mod out to cure this problem. Befor the mod using the Alpha 89 it would trip the unit to stby every time. Using the HB amp (2 X 8877) you could see the gid current go crazy at key up. The mod took care of all that. I guess I will have to make room and keep one of my old rigs for AM....<sigh>...just can not figure out why the mfg of these new rigs have not taken into account the AMers out here. I would have no problem buying the new IC-7800 if it would "talk" on AM. Take care,Stan
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by VK1OD on January 10, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I note the assertions by many on air and here that no SSB radio can make "proper" AM.
My experience of several modern radios is that they create full DSB AM with correctly proportioned carrier and good modulation index, whereas in earlier days most radios inserted carrier in SSB mode, so whilst the generated signal could be resolved on an AM receiver, there was carrier (at perhaps incorrect level) and only a single sideband present.
Nevertheless, some of the modern radios have design shortcomings in power control / ALC operation or initial setup that prevents achievement of high modulation index... but that is a fault of the individual designs, not the technique.
Perhaps the telling reason why most people do not use their SSB radio on AM is in this chart that compares the required signal strength for same SINAD using an IC7400 receiver specification as an example: http://www.vk1od.net/images/7400AmComparison.gif .
If using such a receiver, you need 16.4dB more PEP receive power for 70% modulated AM over SSB, then to match a 100W PEP SSB transmitter, you will need a 4000+W PEP AM transmitter, or a 1500+W pZ (carrier power out) AM transmitter.
Owen
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KB9WIS on January 22, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The best "solid-state" rigs for AM audio fidelity, would have to be the Kenwood TS-850, and the older hybrid Yaesu FT-102. Both of these rigs have been known to have the "best" AM audio out there of a ricebox, and often sound much better than the older boatanchors..
I have also heard the newer (and expensive) Icom IC-7800 on AM a few times, and it sounds great, although a tad pricey. If the newer ICOM IC-756PRO III sounds as good as the IC-7800, I would buy it in a heartbeat! I'm also looking for a new and sophisticated HF rig with newer features such as DSP
that actually sounds as good if not better on AM, as it does on SSB.
ICOM has slacked off more than others, when it comes to AM audio and operation, however like I said, the IC-7800 does sound quite good, just out of my budget.
Hope this helps,
KB9WIS
|
| |
|
RE: Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by W6IML on January 22, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
None of the new rice burners today can come close to the high fidelity of the old Yaesu FT-101 E series of rice burners. Icom, Kenwood, Ten Tec, none of these can be called 'good AM rigs'.
The best sounding AM signal is still the old Collins 32-V3, Johnson AM transmitters, Heathkit DX-100, and Globe King.
One other thing...why the interest in 'Ancient Modulation" now? If high fidelity is your thing, get your SSB rig to sound better!
|
| |
|
Using Solid State Rigs on AM
|
|
|
by KB1QH on March 13, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
All the new solid state radios sound like junk on am. The real broadcast sound radios for 75 meter am are collins and johnson radios the old boat anchors. My ft 990 yaesu had low level audio on am. The fcc is crazy they want every one to stay on side band i guess this is why they build low level audio solid state ham radios. If you take a new solid state ten meter radio they all go through there side band buffers on am for high level audio with a heil goldline with a hc 5 element on wide band and tricking the radio with a high z transformer in the mic. The ten meter radios have know audio frequency response so it is all high pitch and no base this will kill the high pitch and give the old boat anchor sound with a w2ihy eq punched up on the audio input side it will sound better than a johnson viking. You would have to rebuild a whole new solid state ham radio to get high level audio on am so for 75 meters am stick with a boat anchor.
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
Hi Performance Ham Radio
Future Radios...
25 Years From Now
Rockin' Rollin' & Radioin'
The Magic of Radio Part II: The Autopsy
Other Operating Articles
Safety First
My First Date with Olivia
D-STAR/Analog Interference Experience
Using Twitter During Mobile Operation
First HF Contact and Other Stuff
|
