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Author Topic: Statement from SV2ASP/A  (Read 21859 times)
NU1O
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« on: July 25, 2015, 06:43:30 AM »

From "The Daily DX."

It seems SV2ASP/A, Monk Apollo, has posted a response to the past SY/DJ6SI (April 1991) operation from Mount Athos, which did count for DXCC, the recent attempt by the Latvians, which was unsuccessful and the recent operations by SV1RP.  The post is in Greek, however you can click on the English translation.  The translation is not that great, but it is clear where Monk Apollo stands on the issue.

http://agioritikesmnimes.blogspot.gr/2015/07/6829.html

It will be interesting to see what happens with the SV1RP operations, which I believe could be on going.

Feel free to pass this email to your friends and clubs.

73
Bernie



RADIOERASITECHNIKES EMISSIONS FROM Athos
It is known that long-standing demand of many radio amateurs, for years to come and broadcast from Mount Athos. Older know that in the past and it helped a group of radio amateurs from Thessaloniki and have made emissions from the Garden of Our Lady. Most are aware that in recent years the Holy Community refuses to give permission to anyone. Perhaps most they forget that the policy of the Holy Community was to some extent a result of the way he tried to fool Monks German amateur Baldur DJ6SI to make illegal emissions.
Instead the story to show the way, unfortunately we have become lately witnessed new efforts mockery.

 Not long ago some Latvian Radio amateurs came to Mount Athos and without any permission from the Holy Community, tried to enter and make shows, having said, oral permission! Of course neither oral nor written authorization had expelled from Mount Athos. This effort and the communication of their mission, however, although they had the required documents, created a bad image for Mount Athos since appeared on some and amid their longing for a contact, Mount Athos is evil.
Immediately after some time a ham Greek made emissions of Mount Athos. Many messages came again to me with the question whether this ham has the permission of the Holy Community. He argued and said he has permission from a monastery to make educational programs, without taking into account the Regulation of operation of amateur radio stations report on:
'2.3. In specific cases where they have taken special security measures, the owner of the station, a radio amateur with a valid license may, for educational purposes and aiming to progress of amateur radio, allowing the use of the plant to a third person who does not have the status of ham, under his responsibility, their supervision and instructions, for a short period not exceeding twenty (20) minutes. In such cases, after the station's call sign is clarified that the use of the station made by a third person in education process by using its distinctive station followed by the suffix / T (training). »
But on Mount Athos his license not "force" not have the consent of the Holy Community, as defined in Article 12, paragraph 8 of the Operating Rules of amateur radio stations.
"8. Administer to RMC Radio-amateur communications from Mount Athos is needed additionally the written consent of the Holy Supervision of Mount Athos."
So we are talking about another attempt to deceive monks. Again, however, the same negative image in the outside world.
Ultimately we want? To make emissions even if fool Monks doing evil to Athos? We have our conscience by doing so? Did all these actions make bad after the amateur radio, removing even more of a future mission?
Mount Athos is a light source that illuminates all of us and a beacon of Orthodoxy through the centuries.
I asked the Holy Supervision if given a permission and I answered negatively. Indeed, the Holy Community of Mount Athos having regard to the previous illegal broadcasts of the German radio amateur Baldur DJ6SI, the intention of Latvians who wanted to make emissions without the permission of the Holy Community, illegal emissions SV2 / SV1RP / T and / A in the 12- 6-2015, and many other applications hams from around the world seeking to make emissions from Athos, adopted Nos. F.2 / 27A / 1482 / 06.28.2015 Circular to 20 monasteries of Mount Athos which clarifies the issue of amateur emissions from the region of Mount Athos. With this encyclical, the Holy Community stipulates that to make someone else emissions from Mount Athos, it must have a distinctive and the consent of the Holy Community in writing. At the same time it states that all answers to relevant questions were negative, making illegal any emissions.
Please all be more careful in our behavior. More generally good in our lives is when we try something to keep in mind not to insult others, or we raise the values ​​and institutions and try every time by lawful and ethical means to achieve our goal.
With many greetings
Elder Apollos Docheiaritis SV2ASP / A

For your information I quote the relevant circular:


Posted by Keliotis Giannis at 7/25/2015 2:13:00 PM
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1 comment:

Anonymos25 / 7/15, 4:07 pm
THANK GOD !!!
PM sucker STAMATISEI THIS WITH PSEFTOEFLAVIES trying to fulfill INDOOR KRYFOUS longing ....
This last happened to watch 2MIDI IS IN VERY MadCap ...
May the Holy Community to stand HEIGHT AND ALL OF THEM TO THEIR kicked out PERIVOLI OF MARY ....
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N7SMI
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 08:16:25 AM »

And everybody said I was overstating things when I said the Latvian attempt would kick future legitimate and approved activations down the road another decade.

I think it's time the ARRL take a look at the legitimacy of this entity.
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N5PG
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 09:58:17 AM »

We hear a lot about Apollo and the monastery and so on. I came across this article (from 2010) the other day, it's about the Greek mess but there's a good bit about Mt Athos in it too so I thought I'd post it here for general interest.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010
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AF3Y
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 11:07:48 AM »

We hear a lot about Apollo and the monastery and so on. I came across this article (from 2010) the other day, it's about the Greek mess but there's a good bit about Mt Athos in it too so I thought I'd post it here for general interest.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

Quite a read!  Lengthy, a little funny at times, but a little frightening as well.
Thanks for posting it.

73, Gene AF3Y
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KH6DC
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 12:59:50 PM »

These ops deceiving the elders and operating there may ban ham radio on Mt .Athos for a long time or even forever.  The ARRL should look at this DXCC entity and prepare to delete it.
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
K5GS
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 01:55:40 PM »

These ops deceiving the elders and operating there may ban ham radio on Mt .Athos for a long time or even forever.  The ARRL should look at this DXCC entity and prepare to delete it.

Same thing we heard in the 1980s about China and Albania...

No one wanted to delete Nepal when Father Moran was the only one there giving out Qs for decades.  He operated when he had time, just like the good Monk.

What's changed???   What's the difference???

Cheers,
GS
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N7SMI
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 02:08:28 PM »

What's changed???   What's the difference???

For one, Father Moran wasn't the one calling the shots and he wasn't actively doing everything he could to keep other hams out.
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MM0NDX
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2015, 02:14:51 PM »

When at FHN, Germany, Yuris, YL7A visited the DX-World stand a few times, and even signed our guestbook. He introduced himself and explained the situation re: his recent activity from within Mt Athos "compound".

It will come as no surprise if he tries again (as he intimated) to be active from SV/A.

73 Col MM0NDX

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K5GS
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2015, 02:27:23 PM »

What's changed???   What's the difference???

For one, Father Moran wasn't the one calling the shots and he wasn't actively doing everything he could to keep other hams out.

Hi Jared,

How do you know that?  It's not what I read in a recap of Nepal ham history...   If I recall the article, the government looked the other way at Father Moran's operating, he didn't overtly seek permission. History shows that no one else operated from there for many years and one assumption could be the government wouldn't issue a license, or there was some other entity barring the issuance of a license.

That was a long time ago, but today we're talking about similar circumstances.  A single operator that seemingly is the only one permitted to operate.   Of course, Apollo has permission from a higher authority than the Greek government   Smiley

DXCC rules today require government approval and acknowledge Mt Athos as a special case since the Monks control access to their territory.

As you know,  I'm not in favor of deleting anything unless it sinks or there's political change.

DXCC is a journey not a sprint.

Cheers,
GS
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2015, 03:09:16 PM »

I asked an employee if she could translate it properly and I gave her the context of the conversation and she shot me back this.

_____________________________________________

Radio Operator transmissions from Mount Athos

For Years it has been a long time desire of amateur radio operators to come and broadcast from Mount Athos.  The more senior ham operators know that in the past I have helped amateur radio operators from Thessaloniki to setup and make contacts from the Garden of Our Lady.  Most of you are aware that in recent years the Holy Community has refused to give permission to anyone.  Perhaps most of you forget that the new policy of the Holy Community was mostly due to German amateur operator Baldur DJ6SI and the fact that he tried to fool monks into allowing him to operate illegally.
Unfortunately Instead of learning from this we have seen new efforts at trickery

Recently a Amateur Radio operator from Latvia came to Mount Athos without permission from the Holy Community but when asked claimed he had been given verbal permission to operate. In truth he had neither Verbal nor written permission so we had him expelled from Mount Athos.  The pretext that  he used for operating on Mount Athos along with some of his documentation created a bad image of  Mount Athos as being evil in the eyes of those who really need a contact with Mount Athos.

Soon after the Greek Ham made his transmissions many messages came to me asking if this Ham operator had the permission of the Holy Community since he was arguing that he had permission from a monastery to train people to become amateur operators.  He did this without regard for the regulations that govern amateur radio

2.3. In specific cases where they have taken special precautionary measures, the owner of the station, a radio amateur with a valid license may, for educational purposes and aiming to progress the use of amateur radio, may allow a third party person who does not have a ham radio license to transmit under his responsibility with his supervision and instructions, for a short period not exceeding twenty (20) minutes. In such cases, after the station's operators call sign is clarified the transmissions made by a third person in training must use the call sign followed by the suffix / T (training)

But on Mount Athos his license did not have the consent of the Holy Community, as defined in Article 12, paragraph 8 of the Operating Rules of amateur radio stations.

Paragraph 8. states: Radio-amateur communications from Mount Athos  need the additional written consent of the Holy Supervision of Mount Athos."

So we are talking about another attempt to deceive the monks again and also creating the same negative image of us to the outside world.

Ultimately what do they want?  To make transmissions even if they fool Monks into breaking the laws of Athos?  Do they have any conscience by doing so?  Do all these actions make it worst for amateur radio, removing even more future mission?

Mount Athos is a light source that illuminates all of us and a beacon of Orthodoxy through the centuries.

I asked the Holy Supervision if I can give permissions and was told NO.  Indeed, the Holy Community of Mount Athos having regard to the previous illegal broadcasts of the German radio amateur Baldur DJ6SI, and the intention of Latvians who wanted to make transmissions without the permission of the Holy Community, illegal transmissions of SV2 / SV1RP / T and / A in the 12- 6-2015, and many other applications hams from around the world seeking to make transmissions from Athos, adopted Nos. F.2 / 27A / 1482 / 06.28.2015 in the Circle of  20 monasteries of Mount Athos which regulates the issue of amateur transmissions from the region of Mount Athos. With this encyclical, the Holy Community stipulates that to make someone else transmit from Mount Athos, it must have a definitive consent of the Holy Community in writing. At the same time it states that answers all relevant requests were negative, making illegal any transmissions.

Please be more careful in your behavior.  Overall it is good when we want something to keep in mind not to insult others, or we make it harder to get permission from institutions and always use lawful and ethical means to achieve your goals.

With many greetings
Elder Apollos Docheiaritis SV2ASP / A
-------------------------------------------------------------




73s
Rob
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 03:15:10 PM by KD8MJR » Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
K0AP
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2015, 03:56:36 PM »

I would really like to hear the other side of the story (the YL team story). I find it very hard to believe that the YL operators would foolishly spend so much time and money into this without having some kind of verbal approval or promise to get valid license from a prominent figure at SV/A. The SY/DJ6SI operation happened almost 25 years ago and the "Holy Council" still holds so much grudge about that?

73 Dragan K0AP
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SOFAR
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2015, 04:31:03 PM »

A religious entity holding a grudge? I thought the basis of most religions was digging up past wrongs. .... I honestly think amateur radio should be kept separate. If one wants to play radio, they can do so in their free time, without any mention of their affiliation.
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KB3LIX
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2015, 04:36:01 PM »

Thank you for the clarafication. The original
was like (pardon the pun) GREEK to me !



Translation of that whole statement:

We are the BIG FISH in this LITTLE POND
and we ain't letting anyone else come and swim.

Turkmenistan & DPRK fall into the same category.
Big deal, IF amateur radio is either severly
restricted or not permitted at all. why should we care.

Write them off as inoperable and move on.

Things MAY change in the future, and they may not.
If they do...GOOD
If they don't...that's good too.

I'm not getting my knickers in a knot because of
a 25 year old grudge.
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2015, 05:15:18 PM »

My take away from this is three fold.

1) Monk Apollo tried to convince the council to let him decide who could operate and he was told NO!  Proof of that is obvious since he has many very good friends in the Ham Community who I am sure he would love to let operate from there and yet he has not done so.

2) People should stop complaining and getting personal with him because if he stops the whole thing stops and your odds go from Slim to None.

3) Forget about the notion of it ever being deleted, if Athos goes then they need to get rid of P5, BS7H and a number of other entities that are 10 times more impossible to work.


73s
Rob
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2015, 05:23:12 PM »

The SY/DJ6SI operation happened almost 25 years ago and the "Holy Council" still holds so much grudge about that?

73 Dragan K0AP

Why does that surprise you?  Everything about religion is like that, most of the time it will be hundreds of years before they reverse themselves on any decision.

The Ironic and sad part is that the only thing that hams 50 years from now will remember Baldur for is this.

73s
Rob
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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