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Author Topic: ICOM IC-7300  (Read 267752 times)
K7JQ
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Posts: 947




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« Reply #720 on: September 20, 2017, 08:36:26 AM »

I'm probably late to the game but what in the world is the deal with the KX3 vs. 7300 comparison on Elecraft's website? Don't get me wrong... I like my KX1 and K2 quite a bit, but if you add up all the options that make it a valid comparison, the KX3 is upwards of 3 grand. Apples/Oranges much?



Even more ridiculous is their website comparison of the K3s to the 7300. With P3 panadapter, ATU, and other accessories that the 7300 has built-in, the K3s is in excess of $5,500. What were  they thinking? Is that $1,250 radio hurting their sales that much?
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K0UA
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Posts: 1353




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« Reply #721 on: September 20, 2017, 08:37:22 AM »

I guess I don't know any better, I think the 7300 sounds VERY good on receive, and I receive unsolicited transmit audio reports.
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K0UA
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Posts: 1353




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« Reply #722 on: September 20, 2017, 08:38:34 AM »

I'm probably late to the game but what in the world is the deal with the KX3 vs. 7300 comparison on Elecraft's website? Don't get me wrong... I like my KX1 and K2 quite a bit, but if you add up all the options that make it a valid comparison, the KX3 is upwards of 3 grand. Apples/Oranges much?



Even more ridiculous is their website comparison of the K3s to the 7300. With P3 panadapter, ATU, and other accessories that the 7300 has built-in, the K3s is in excess of $5,500. What were  they thinking? Is that $1,250 radio hurting their sales that much?

Apparently so.  I never saw them in the same class, but oddly Elecraft seems to think so.
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N2DTS
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Posts: 730




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« Reply #723 on: September 20, 2017, 10:33:52 AM »

Sounds like a fair telephone.
I have heard better sound on some phones (pollycom ip phone).
200 to 3000Hz  is communications audio and can not be said to sound good, just understandable.
A Flex or Anan can go 10 Hz to 20,000 Hz, and can be set any way you like, say 50 to 4000 is nice, maybe out to 5000 Hz for broadcast.
Elecraft does better then the 7300, and they are hardly known for fidelity...

The radio sounds ok on TX in stock form, its clean and well rounded but not great.
Its fine on ssb, better then it needs to be on that mode....



I guess I don't know any better, I think the 7300 sounds VERY good on receive, and I receive unsolicited transmit audio reports.
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VE3WGO
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Posts: 149




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« Reply #724 on: September 20, 2017, 06:32:10 PM »

sure, but as has already been established, comparing a kilobuck entry level portable radio like the 7300 to another radio that's more than twice its size and weight and three+ times its price is well..... kind of silly.
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N2DTS
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Posts: 730




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« Reply #725 on: September 20, 2017, 06:40:29 PM »

Nothing to do with price, its just how they made the radio.
Many cheaper sdr receivers can do 10 to 20,000 Hz on rx if you want.
They may have cut the lows to remove low frequency grunge, or to block sub audible repeater tones or something, or just because they wanted it that way.
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VE3WGO
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« Reply #726 on: September 20, 2017, 07:20:47 PM »

do those cheaper SDR receivers have an audio amplifier, or do they rely on the user supplying a computer to do that? 

For many SDRs we have to remember that most of them need you to add a computer + monitor + cables + speakers just to complete a basic receiver function.  So some portions of the performance of the system (especially the demodulation and audio) are more a function of the computer and its soundcard hardware and software, than they are of the SDR frontend.  Not to forget that the total price of all that computing gear is often many times the price of the basic SDR itself.  Okay, if you are lucky enough to have a spare computer system just sitting idle, then your cost can be lower... but it can't be just any computer, it has to have a good soundcard and display, so it's admittedly probably not an old spare one just lying idle.

Is there a way to get at the IF output of your 7300 if you want your computer to recover Hi-Fi audio?


Anyway, since most of the fundamental frequencies of the human voice are something between 80 to 250 Hz depending on the speaker's age and gender, it would seem that maximum realism might be easy enough to recreate with a subharmonic synthesizer if your receiver lacks low end.  Now, DBX has been doing that for many years and sells a few models for rock bands and audiophiles Smiley to add balls to their bass amplifier or subwoofer.  And the DBX 120A runs under $200, so it's a lot cheaper than much of the gear in the shack.

The DBX could also be used in voice processing boards for the AMers who love to get close to their dynamic mic and get just a little boomy the way the cool FM radio DJs did it back in the 70s.  But if you aren't listening to one of those, then 250 Hz is a great place to rolloff the bottom end.
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N2DTS
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Posts: 730




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« Reply #727 on: September 21, 2017, 06:42:39 AM »

Some have audio line outputs, some use the computer audio, some do both.
The only limitations are the audio system you plug it into, the radio/filters can do 10 to 20,000 Hz at least.
As a direct digital conversion, I am not sure there is an IF output as there is no IF on many sdr's.
the 7300 may have something they call and IF, not sure what it is, I would have to look it up.

Listening to a good voice signal I can switch between three receivers, the 7300, Anan and my homebrew.
All the audio outputs go into an old Marantz audio amplifier and into a selection of speakers, including a big 3 way with a 12 inch woofer.

The last two radios sound good and natural, and yes, sometimes I have to cut the low end, but they sound MUCH better then the 7300.
Even most ssb signals sound MUCH better on the Anan.
Going down to 100 Hz likely would have made a huge improvement...
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KA4DPO
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Posts: 774




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« Reply #728 on: September 21, 2017, 10:09:38 AM »

Some have audio line outputs, some use the computer audio, some do both.
The only limitations are the audio system you plug it into, the radio/filters can do 10 to 20,000 Hz at least.
As a direct digital conversion, I am not sure there is an IF output as there is no IF on many sdr's.
the 7300 may have something they call and IF, not sure what it is, I would have to look it up.

Listening to a good voice signal I can switch between three receivers, the 7300, Anan and my homebrew.
All the audio outputs go into an old Marantz audio amplifier and into a selection of speakers, including a big 3 way with a 12 inch woofer.

The last two radios sound good and natural, and yes, sometimes I have to cut the low end, but they sound MUCH better then the 7300.
Even most ssb signals sound MUCH better on the Anan.
Going down to 100 Hz likely would have made a huge improvement...


That's nice, I have a Drake R4B that probably sounds better than either of the radios you mentioned. 

Your continual stream of negative comments based on some arcane specs for AM are pretty silly.  If the Icom is so dam bad in your application then why not sell it?  If I had a radio that I disliked that much I would simply unload it.  I also noticed that you gave it a bad rap in the reviews section.  Just had to say something bad even though the reality is, there is nothing wrong with the rig.  It operates exactly as it was designed to, so sorry if that doesn't suit you.  As smart as you are would have assumed you did some research. Based on what you say about the audio you should have known better than to buy it.
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N2DTS
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Posts: 730




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« Reply #729 on: September 21, 2017, 12:33:48 PM »

I use it for other things, and as a standalone radio for cw and ssb, fidelity does not really matter.
I am just saying they could have made it better, for people who swl and for people who do AM or at least listen, for people who like essb, and for some people who can tell good sound, mostly musicians...

I think its quite good for an Icom, and very good for the price.
Its just a shame Icom and Elecraft ignore all those people.
Part of the advantage of sdr radios is the ability to adjust it to get what you want.
If you want hi fi, you can have it, you can even load profiles for every mode and band to set bandwidth and EQ (and limits) for each.
They can limit the TX and that is fine with me, but why limit the RX?

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KE2TR
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Posts: 616




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« Reply #730 on: September 24, 2017, 07:49:11 AM »

I lol, Elecraft compares there K3S against the little ole 7300 which must be hurting there sales if they have lower themselves to have a comparo on there site  between these two rigs which are in two way different price ranges. I remember when they tried to compare there K2 against the FT1000MP back around 1998, it was soo funny that they would think top contest station are going to replace there full featured battle ship MP's with a K2, that K2 next to the old MP comparo I did more that a few times with owners of the K2 back then and it lost big time. The down conversion technology brought them back when the K3 came out but like every radio hits the market they have there sales life span and the latest K3S is just not doing it for the new buyers. Its still an ugly radio, still sounds tinny, way to expensive, the control layout and use is very complicated but there performative specs are good but now there will be more competition. Now Icom comes along with the little old 7300 that gives way more usable features, easy to use, spectrum scope which works very well, sdr technology at affordable prices, maybe not a chart topper but lab specs that are good enough that it overshadows many radio's at higher price ranges, very portable station in a small box and lastly the price is less than half of a BASIC K3s. I am sure I am leaving out many other features but just touching on key ones for now, I think the boys on the west coast may have to bring something new to the market if they want to hag with what Icom  has done and compete with the newer designs  from companies like Flex and Anan. BTW I had to try one of these little boxes so a 7300 is on its way.
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KE2TR
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Posts: 616




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« Reply #731 on: September 24, 2017, 08:55:13 AM »

I will also test out using the 7300 antenna tuner in line on the RX side and see how it may improve the use of that radio during a FD site type operation with my other radio transmuting on another band. Icom states that the tuner is in line on RX &TX in there full manual on line, I believe but not sure that has been an option in most of there radio's menu's since the original IC 756 but removed in some of the pro series rigs, using the tuner in line on the RX side did improve its second order IMD numbers in lab tests which would directly help using these radio's at a multi OP FD site.
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KE2TR
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Posts: 616




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« Reply #732 on: September 25, 2017, 07:36:57 AM »

The one feature I am looking forward in testing out with the 7300 is the NB feature since it is not in an IF chain like in the FTDX3000, from what I can gather its inside the SDR part of the radio. From the fellow out west who gets to lab yes almost every Icom radio and I don't mean Sherwood, his review had some comments as far as how impressed he was with the NB feature which did not have any clipping effect on the signal as compare to an IF NB circuit. This feature alone in a suburban environment would be a huge help and many of my friends who have already purchased a 7300 have commented to me how effective the NB and NR features work so I will know in a few days.
The NB on the Yaesu is good on a none crowded band but as soon as someone is 3-5Khz away and over S7 you hear that clipping or blead thru on the IF like any other NB has done in the past, it does in most cases get rid of the noise but adds another in its place when the band is busy. It is an IF or IF DSP noise blanker and like many radio's I have tried  they all suck  when used on a busy band but the digital noise reduction does work better than many of the radio's I have either owned or tried such as Icom 746Pro,756ProIII,Kenwood TS590 and Elecraft K3 all add more of that digital echo effect over the FTDX3K which as some but far more tolerable and the signal doesn't sound like its under water. I am told by friends that the 7300's NR is far better so we will see. For ham's who live out in the country theses features are no big deal but for us who live in urban populated area's these tools make operating far better on a day to day basis.
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K0UA
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Posts: 1353




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« Reply #733 on: September 25, 2017, 08:20:51 AM »

I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with both the NR and the NB in the 7300.  They are both better by far than my previous FT450 and even better then my IC756pro3.  Someone reported that the Noise reduction in his FT891 was better than the Ic7300.  I own a new FT891 now, and while the NR is very good in the Ft891, I don't think it is superior to the NR in the IC7300.
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KE2TR
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Posts: 616




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« Reply #734 on: September 25, 2017, 10:54:33 AM »

Yaesu has come a log way in there implementation of there NR DSP part of there newer radio's and it used to be that Icoms DSP NR was better back in the ProIII days then carried over in the 7600 and the 7410 but when Yaesu improved there FTDX5K, 3K and 1200 thay worked on making the NR better IMO and I havve also seen and heard the NR in the 891 which for what they have them on sale for is an outstanding deal. I was surprised that the TS590 was aching more like the old TS870 as far as the sound of there NR when engaged which tells me they didn't think it had to be any better cause the NR1 and NR2 on the 590 always sounded like an SSB signal was under water. The FTDX3K was a huge improvement over the 590 and K3 I had cause the K3 really was OK on cw but on ssb  it made the voice scratchy and this was after many hours of playing and adjusting.
I may he hyper critical cause of way too many years in the Audio/Pro Audio business when I was younger but if the radio has scratchy audio i will no last long a my QTH. I hope your right cause between urban qth noise and other things around my qth both the NR and NB with superior performance will be a welcome addition here.
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