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Author Topic: CW SAD BUT TRUE ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR  (Read 67231 times)
KE6EE
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Posts: 1840




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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2016, 11:31:47 PM »

I can't believe you guys fell for feeding the troll.
paul
+1! A classic troll....

I'm not sure if there's a really useful or specific definition of a troll. In other words a troll can simply be someone whose post you don't understand or don't like. It doesn't have to be someone who wants to create a ruckus.

The OP is a technician of fairly recent vintage. His experience is likely limited to HTs and repeaters. He has little or no experience of the world of CW not to mention, I would guess, of HF.

Thus my conclusion: not a troll. Just someone testing his impression of the situation.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 11:05:49 AM by KE6EE » Logged
N3QE
Member

Posts: 4875




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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2016, 05:45:40 AM »

Were the fists as bad 40 years ago as they are now?  I am a CW novice doing 18WPM on a good day, but I try to to keep it timing  and spacing as correct as I can.  With some, it's hard to tell the difference between the dits and dahs, the bug ops are out control, others have a swing that only a mother could love.

I have a hard enough time copying without all of this "stylized" code out there!
Is this a recent phenomenon or has it always been this way?

It was much worse in the past. Yes, there are some very stylized folks out there today but they are not the rule.

I'm not talking about folks who are trying to be stylized, I'm mostly talking about the folks who just can't send.

If anything... the guys who can't use bugs and send "D" with 5 dits and "5" with 12 to 15 dits, were far worse in the past too. Again, they aren't completely gone today, but nothing like the past. In fact... I can't remember hearing anything like this in the past year and I do a lot of CW.

You think 18WPM is novice speed level. Back in my youth on the novice band, huge chunks of the ham population couldn't send straight at 5WPM!
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KC8Y
Member

Posts: 466




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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2016, 05:58:46 AM »

I've been licensed for 46+ years.  After the last 20 years, getting back into the CW and even digital (voice and SSB are too crowed for me).

I don't think CW "...on the way out...

Ken KC8Y
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K7EXJ
Member

Posts: 875




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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2016, 12:11:28 PM »

I'm not sure if there's a really useful or specific definition of a troll. In other words a troll can simply be someone whose post you don't understand or don't like. It doesn't have to be someone who wants to create a ruckus.

According to Wikiepedia, this is the definition of an Internet troll and, in my opinion, it fits the OP perfectly:

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KE6EE
Member

Posts: 1840




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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2016, 01:52:50 PM »

According to Wikiepedia, this is the definition of an Internet troll and, in my opinion, it fits the OP perfectly:

I simply offer an alternative explanation for the OP's post--giving him the benefit of the doubt.

He's pretty new, probably inexperienced and likes to come to a conclusion about things before he understands them.

Thus I think we can help him in the Elmer fashion by sharing our broader experience with him. Rather than assigning him to the dustbin along with trolls who only want to cause trouble.

Maybe he will do us the favor of reflecting on what we have said and responding. If he is inexperienced rather than a troll, and open-minded, he can thank us for opening his eyes a bit. Maybe he was thinking that ham radio was boring and generally on its way out and en route to quitting the hobby.

Maybe now he can't wait to order a few keys from Begali.

If he's a troll, or shy about his inexperience, he probably won't respond at all because his venture has failed.

On the other hand if he's truly a super-duper-de-booper-troll (as in Dr. Seuss), he'll come back with something that will blow us all out of the water. Something about a government conspiracy behind all this or guns are better uses of metal than keys.

I'm awaitin'.
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K8PRG
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Posts: 305


WWW

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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 02:03:32 PM »

he probably won't respond at all because his venture has failed.

Yeah, like he did his English classes.
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ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1218




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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 03:31:06 PM »

I wonder if beginners in the language are frightened off by those that talk about being able to copy at 50 wpm and I dont slow down under 35, we have all heard and read them.

When people talk about copying at 50wpm is that getting the gist of a sentence or phrase, I wonder how they would fair with being sat down and here comes a 1000 words of traffic at 50wpm, just how much of it would they get down and how accurately.

Lets foster beginners and those who stumble through a 5nn name albert qth somewhere type qso for they will get better and better with encouragement.

Just a thought.

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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
KE6EE
Member

Posts: 1840




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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2016, 03:38:07 PM »

Lets foster beginners and those who stumble through a 5nn name albert qth somewhere type qso for they will get better and better with encouragement.

Just a thought.

A good thought. We need to keep in mind that 20 to 25 wpm was plenty fast enough for all the commercial and military communication that went on worldwide for many decades.

20 wpm is an excellent speed that 90% of us can achieve and enjoy fully.

I think one of the most destructive tendencies of current Western culture is the pretense that nothing is worth doing unless you can do it in some over-the-top fashion. Like CW at 45 wpm.

It's as if working hard, getting things done, having a family, enjoying your friends or being a CW op at 15 wpm aren't worthy and enjoyable undertakings.

Only being a billionaire, having five houses, six divorces, 50 cars and over 50 wpm makes you fully human!  Grin
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W1JKA
Member

Posts: 2086




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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2016, 04:02:32 PM »

I can't believe you guys fell for feeding the troll.

paul

You can't!!!, how log have you been a member here? Shocked
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VK4FFAB
Member

Posts: 412




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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2016, 04:36:52 PM »

Lets foster beginners and those who stumble through a 5nn name albert qth somewhere type qso for they will get better and better with encouragement.

Just a thought.

A good thought. We need to keep in mind that 20 to 25 wpm was plenty fast enough for all the commercial and military communication that went on worldwide for many decades.

20 wpm is an excellent speed that 90% of us can achieve and enjoy fully.

I think one of the most destructive tendencies of current Western culture is the pretense that nothing is worth doing unless you can do it in some over-the-top fashion. Like CW at 45 wpm.

It's as if working hard, getting things done, having a family, enjoying your friends or being a CW op at 15 wpm aren't worthy and enjoyable undertakings.

Only being a billionaire, having five houses, six divorces, 50 cars and over 50 wpm makes you fully human!  Grin

I am a beginner and my top speed is about 15wpm. Sure i can send faster, but i don't, my goal has never been speed, it has been perfection. When i key,  am looking for perfect character formation, perfect inter character and word spacings, so that someone with a really cheap decoder can copy my code and the other thing is accuracy, not getting my -..- or .--. confused Smiley

And while some of my learner friends have turned up the speed, to be sending at 20+ wpm, i have stayed on the same speed, or when i go portable, slow it down even to 10wpm and I could not be happier. When i am a computer mctronic sending 100% at my current speed, I will then add 5wpm and start all over again.
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KB4MNG
Member

Posts: 265




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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2016, 05:10:06 PM »

Troll Alert!  I started as a ham at 14 in 1984. I don't remember the cw portion any busier than it is today. CW ops will/have decreased due to

No longer mandatory to learn - Some learned and enjoyed it and carried on(myself included)

Many of the guys that operated in the military/maritime service is passing away.
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KU4RN
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2016, 08:34:31 PM »

I operated CW in the military and I am still here.  I believe it is still being used.  I also believe it is going to be on the ham bands for a long time.  I enjoying chatting with a new cw operator.   Help build there confidence and they will learn.  What I do not like is someone using a computer or machine to send code and try to pass it off as there fist.  Put forth the effort and learn.  Too many new hams wanting to get to 30 wpm before there first QSO, and then we talk about bad fist.  I just say take the time and learn it, use it and enjoy. 

73 KU4RN. Richard
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ONAIR
Member

Posts: 3525




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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2016, 11:26:14 PM »

I operated CW in the military and I am still here.  I believe it is still being used.  I also believe it is going to be on the ham bands for a long time.  I enjoying chatting with a new cw operator.   Help build there confidence and they will learn.  What I do not like is someone using a computer or machine to send code and try to pass it off as there fist.  Put forth the effort and learn.  Too many new hams wanting to get to 30 wpm before there first QSO, and then we talk about bad fist.  I just say take the time and learn it, use it and enjoy. 

73 KU4RN. Richard
  There was a clown who told me that his computer could send out CW at well over 100 WPM!  I told him to have fun chatting with another computer that could copy it!!  Roll Eyes
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VK4FFAB
Member

Posts: 412




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« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2016, 12:01:23 AM »

I operated CW in the military and I am still here.  I believe it is still being used.  I also believe it is going to be on the ham bands for a long time.  I enjoying chatting with a new cw operator.   Help build there confidence and they will learn.  What I do not like is someone using a computer or machine to send code and try to pass it off as there fist.  Put forth the effort and learn.  Too many new hams wanting to get to 30 wpm before there first QSO, and then we talk about bad fist.  I just say take the time and learn it, use it and enjoy. 

73 KU4RN. Richard

It is a big catch 22, the new guy needs to operate slow to build up skills but there is a strong lack of slow traffic for them to work and build those skills with, a lot wont bother to turn down the speed and work them and that leaves you with the 5nn tu 73 dx exchanges to work because they do not care about how PRO you are, only the number in the logbook.

CW is obviously not going to die, but it is certainly changing from how it was Pre 1980's. The one thing I find disappointing is how it is learned, when was the last time anyone heard a novice doing 5wpm or 10wpm even? Everyone sits in front of their computer listening to G4FON et al and keys into their decoder/oscillator and they pop up out of the blue semi competent at 15+ wpm. As a learner, and someone who strongly believes in the JUST DO IT method of life and learning, it would be good to hear a bunch of slow ops on the bands. But, sadly, times have changed and I have a pre 1950's view on Amateur Radio.
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ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1218




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« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2016, 01:18:23 AM »

The reason that so many PC based learning systems are now the norm, is possibly that the skill base of gnarly seasoned CW ops is diminishing.

The two people that taught me morse were both ex Y station ops.
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
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